Tucker Carlson Interviews Nick Fuentes

The Nick Fuentes Interview. (00:00) The Origins of Nick Fuentes (15:27) The Beginning of Fuentes’s America First Mission (17:10) The Daily Wire’s Efforts to Destroy Fuentes (46:25) Why Did Fuentes Attack Joe Kent? (1:22:31) Fuentes’s Dinner with Ye and Donald Trump (1:29:48) The Assassination Attempt on Fuentes Paid partnerships with: Vandy Crisps: Get 25% off with code TUCKER at https://vandycrisps.com/Tucker Black Rifle Coffee: Promo code "Tucker" for 30% off at https://www.blackriflecoffee.com MeriwetherFarms: Visit https://MeriwetherFarms.com/Tucker and use code TCN10 for a discount. Last Country Supply: Real prep starts with the basics. Here’s what I keep stocked: lastcountrysupply.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:30Tucker Carlson?

  Nick Fuentes, thank you for doing this.

• 0:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you for having me.

• 0:32Tucker Carlson?

  I wanted to meet you. I've heard about you.

• 0:34Speaker 02

  Hmm, I've heard about you.

• 0:36Tucker Carlson?

  So, well, thank you. Um, I want to understand what you believe, and I want to give you a chance in a minute to just lay it out, not what you're pivoting against, which are a lot of the same thing. You know, I agree with you on some of the things you're pivoting against, for sure. But what do you affirmatively believe? So I just want to stand back and let you explain it. But first, I want to understand how you got to where you are, how you became Nick Fuentes. So here's, I'm just, this is my understanding of your life arc, and tell me if I'm wrong. You show up at Boston University. You grew up in a suburb of Chicago, kind of working class, suburb of, western suburb. And you show up at Boston University in the fall of 2016 at the height of the,

• 1:21Tucker Carlson?

  well, the battle between Trump and Hillary. It's like this kind of pivot point in history. And you show up with a MAGA hat, and you have a Trump hat, and you have, like, basically off-the-shelf Republican views?

• 1:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:34Tucker Carlson?

  And so, describe the views that you had then, and then describe what happened.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, so when I was in high school, I was very political. I was reading a lot of the libertarian stuff, Austrian School, Chicago School, economic-type literature, because that's what was popular at the time. If you went online in the mid, early 2010s, that's all the conservative content there really was. That was the most extremely online-type stuff.

• 2:19Tucker Carlson?

  Libertarian economics.

• 2:20Speaker 02

  Well, uh, yeah, yeah, basically, kind of the remnant of the Ron Paul revolution.

• 2:25Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 2:25Speaker 02

  The Young Americans for Liberty, um, PragerU, which kind of skews a little more, I guess, conservative, but very basic, small government, individualism, libertarian type stuff.

• 2:37Tucker Carlson?

  So you, you watch PragerU videos?

• 2:39Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I was in the PragerForce.

• 2:41Tucker Carlson?

  What's that?

• 2:42Speaker 02

  It's a Facebook group for college kids and they promote the PragerU videos.

• 2:48Tucker Carlson?

  Wow.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  That's of the college students and high school students.

• 2:50Tucker Carlson?

  You really were a product of the moment?

• 2:52Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 2:54Tucker Carlson?

  And how'd you feel about Trump?

• 2:56Speaker 02

  Well, initially I didn't like Trump. When the primaries started in 2015, I was, I considered him to be a statist.

• 3:03Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 3:03Speaker 02

  Which sounds so ridiculous now.

• 3:06Tucker Carlson?

  No, a lot of people thought that.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I was libertarian, so I saw him as a big government, 1990s liberal. When he was asked about healthcare, he said, "Well, we'll take care of everybody." And I said, "I'm a Rand Paul guy, Ted Cruz guy." Those were kind of my people back in 2015.

• 3:23Tucker Carlson?

  You liked Ted Cruz?

• 3:24Speaker 02

  I was a cruise missile.

• 3:26Tucker Carlson?

  Does Cruz know that?

• 3:28Speaker 02

  I don't think so, no. I was actually on his campaign.

• 3:31Tucker Carlson?

  You were on the Ted Cruz campaign?

• 3:33Speaker 02

  I don't know if I was on the campaign, but I door knocked in a little village in Chicago, in McKinley Park for Ted Cruz.

• 3:40Tucker Carlson?

  No way.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  In the Illinois primary.

• 3:42Tucker Carlson?

  Did he write you a thank you note?

• 3:44Speaker 02

  No, I didn't get a thank you. Um, he lost, so I guess.

• 3:47Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, he did. He did in a very humiliating way. Uh, so, wow, that's, wow, that's amazing. So, um, so what happened?

• 3:55Speaker 02

  So I, like everybody else in 2016, went through this ideological awakening. And first, I shifted to Trump. And the first realization that I had is, it started in 2016, actually, because the primaries, you know, started in 15, around April or May, I think, the first announcements. And I had very negative feelings about Trump and like I said, pro Rand Paul, pro Cruz. But when the actual Iowa caucus happened and the primaries began, I saw that Trump was dominating. And every night in the Super Tuesday, when they had all the big contests, one after the other, I remember the media was furious that he was winning one after the other.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  And I remember thinking to myself, like structurally, if I'm a libertarian or a conservative, and we want to change the country, we have to win elections. If you want to win elections, you have to bypass the media. I sort of had this realization that the media was really standing in the way. They were the problem. And I had this realization that all the conservatives and Republicans up to that point were afraid to take on the media. They, like Mitt Romney, would cower before them and were so apologetic and so weak. And so initially I said, you know, I don't, I actually don't ideologically agree with Trump at all, but he will destroy the liberal media, or at least their monopoly on thought and opinion.

• 5:19Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  And then a breakthrough can occur. So that was kind of the first hump. And I said, you know, I could get behind Trump because he's a winner. He'll win for our side. And that was kind of the first big thing. And then, as I listened to him more and more, his speeches and his rhetoric, I started to think about immigration.

• 5:39Tucker Carlson?

  Which you hadn't really considered before?

• 5:40Speaker 02

  Never. And the reason why is because I was from a 95% white suburb. So the diversity had not really reached my corner of Chicago yet. We were, me and my family, not so much my family, they grew up in the city, but growing up in the suburbs, I was insulated from that. So it was just not even, it's actually, you're gonna love this. This is, I don't know if I've ever even said this on an interview before. I was listening to Mark Levin's show. This goes to show how normie I was.

• 6:12Tucker Carlson?

  Actually?

• 6:13Speaker 02

  I listen to him every day.

• 6:15Tucker Carlson?

  You listen to Mark Levin every day?

• 6:16Speaker 02

  In high school, yes.

• 6:17Tucker Carlson?

  Wow.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  I was a fan. I loved his show and I actually liked how he was kind of obnoxious and mean to his callers. Vicious. And I liked that. I thought that was funny. But I'll never forget one show. He goes live and he says, "America's becoming a majority non-white country. Does anybody think that's a good idea?" And I was thinking to myself, "Yeah, that actually doesn't sound so good. I didn't really even think that America's becoming majority-minority like that."

• 6:45Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, so you were radicalized on race by Mark Levin?

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 6:50Tucker Carlson?

  Are you making that up?

• 6:51Speaker 02

  That's a real story.

• 6:53Tucker Carlson?

  Amazing.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. He planted the seed at least. And then I saw a graphic on Fortune or Twitter, and I'm sure you've seen something similar. It said, "This is what the map looks like, the electoral map. If only men vote, if only women vote, if only whites vote, if only non-whites vote." And it became very obvious what the electoral problem is. It's demographics. These immigrants are coming here. They're gonna turn Texas blue, like they turned California blue.

• 7:21Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I saw it happen.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, you know, you look at even the opinion polls. These people don't believe in free speech. They don't believe in the Constitution, the Second Amendment, as a libertarian, the things that are, and as American, things that are important to you, they don't believe, they don't understand these things. And so I said, "That's another political obstacle. You've got the media, you've got immigration." So I'm thinking like, "Well, we're gonna vote for Ted Cruz, he's gonna be the constitutionalist, we'll vote for Ann Paul, he'll be the libertarian." But what stands in the way of political power for us, it's the media and it's immigration. So I said, "Well, we gotta get Trump to beat the media, build the wall, deport the illegals, and once we set the country straight, then

• 8:04Speaker 02

  we can actually have our constitutional republic back." That was kind of the idea. And that's the mindset that I had going into college.

• 8:12Tucker Carlson?

  Amazing. So then what happened?

• 8:15Speaker 02

  So I go to college, and I'm just, at that point, a huge Trump supporter. And you gotta understand, for me, for my generation, so I was 18, I turned 18 in August 2016. And to us, Trump.

• 8:28Tucker Carlson?

  Amazing.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, because we're like the first generation that was influenced by Trump coming of age in that moment.

• 8:35Tucker Carlson?

  I say it's amazing because when you're living in something, you don't appreciate its full significance, but to be 18 in August of 2016. So this really is as you're forming your views and really your yourself.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:48Tucker Carlson?

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• 10:10Speaker 03

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• 10:52Speaker 03

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• 12:04Speaker 02

  It's transformative and you know, so for us, he was like the savior of Western civilization. We looked at him as like we, and by we, I mean me and all the online kids, teenagers that supported him. We really believed the hype, like Teflon Don, like he could go into any scenario and win. Like he was unstoppable, unflappable. Nobody could score points on him. He just seemed like, you know, they, they said you can't stump the Trump, like he could not be stumped. And so we, he just had this aura of inevitability, invincibility. And we, I loved that and. So I went to Boston University. I got on campus in September and I was wearing my MAGA

• 12:47Speaker 02

  hat everywhere in the dining hall, walking down the street and it's a city campus. So you're walking down Commonwealth Avenue and you know, you're in the city of Boston, which is super liberal. And at that time, it's different than it was now. People were getting fired for wearing MAGA hats. People were getting punched in the face. It was like, being a Trump supporter was, it was out there actually back then. It was controversial. It was controversial everywhere, not even, you know, just in liberal Boston. But so I was wearing my hat everywhere and I was just getting accosted constantly. In the dining hall, people would come up and yell in my face. Some black girl in a hijab ran up to me and said, "You know what you're supporting? You're racist this." And I'm trying to get my pizza

• 13:30Speaker 02

  and I'm trying to get my oatmeal or whatever at the dining hall. This was happening constantly. And so I was going then on Twitter and I had a small Twitter account with my real name and face and I had, you know, maybe 200 followers and I'm posting about my experiences. And I caught the attention of a lot of people on campus for wearing the hat, for posting on Twitter and they found my Twitter.

• 13:54Tucker Carlson?

  You've only been there like a month?

• 13:55Speaker 02

  Less, weeks. Maybe three weeks. This is starting to kick up. And I catch the attention of my peers and they start going at me on Twitter and giving me death threats. "We're gonna kill you. How dare you. If I see you, I'm gonna beat your ass." That kind of thing. And this is my first experience with this. Um, you know, now we're all kind of desensitized to it, but that was my first run in with like, you know, this intensity from the left. So I file a police report. I get real nervous and, you know, when you're a student, you can't really avoid other people. You're in a dorm room, you're in the, you know, so you're vulnerable. And anyway, long story short, so one of these guys from the

• 14:36Speaker 02

  campus libertarian group, Young Americans for Liberty, he reaches out to me and says, "Hey, uh, I'm, I'm not gonna say his name, but he goes, "I go to a school in Boston. I'm from YAL." He said, "And I'd like to set up a debate with you and one of these people that's been giving you a hard time on campus." Cause they were doing a lot of events. He said, "Is that something you're interested in?" I said, "Absolutely." And so he goes around and he asks some of the bigger people that are antagonizing me on Twitter and everybody says no. And he goes, yeah, no one's going for it. I said, well, can you try again? Can you? And so he finds one guy and it turns out to be the student body president of the whole university.

• 15:15Tucker Carlson?

  BU.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, the senior, this liberal douchebag progressive. And he's the student body president of the student government there. And so we set up the debate. It was about a week before the actual elections. I think it was end of October, beginning of November. And they hold it in this auditorium in the, in the center of the campus and like 300 people show up. So it turns into like this huge, and they're all liberal. They all hate my guts. They're heckling me the whole time. They're yelling at me. We do this debate about Trump versus Hillary. And so I'm there and I'm, I'm pro-Trump and I say, you know, I think Trump's gonna win. And I'm straight up like ripping the Ben Shapiro talking points. I'm saying, you know, it's got everything to do with culture and nothing to do with

• 15:59Speaker 02

  race and diversity is a problem and all this. And I decisively win the debate. It's like not even close. The debate wraps up and this girl who I, I think I had talked to her on Twitter once or twice, comes running up to the stage after the debate and it's Cassie Dillon. And at this time, she's a fellow at Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro's company. And like I said, I barely knew her. And she comes running up and she says, oh my gosh, I livestreamed this debate on Periscope on Twitter. She said, and 30,000 people watched it and you have like five job offers. You did incredible. I said, wow, I don't know what to say. That, that's great. She goes,

• 16:40Tucker Carlson?

  You're 18 years old.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Yes. So it's like happening very quickly for me, you know? And she goes, do you want to do a post-game interview after the debate? I said, sure. And so she asked me about how I thought the debate went and what my views are and things like that. And, you know, very normal stuff. And then at the end, she says, I just got back from doing study abroad in Israel. She goes, and it was amazing. Would you ever take a trip to Israel? And I said, no, I think I got everything I need right here in America. And she goes, oh, okay. And she wraps up the interview and that was a little bit of foreshadowing. And this begins a relationship, not a romantic relationship, but we, we become friends and we start talking.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  And she's plugged in, like I said, a Daily Wire. She's talking to people at Right Side Broadcasting Network, the College Republicans. I start to develop this friendship with her. And over time, she lands me this show on Right Side Broadcasting Network. And in this time, I'm really starting to lean into America first. I'm becoming more pro-Trump as time goes on. And what really stood out to me was Trump's inaugural address in January 17. So this was just a couple of months later. And in Trump's inaugural, he says famously, "A new vision will govern our land. It's going to be only America first. America first." And I said, "That's me." Like, that's what I believe. I'm an American nationalist.

• 18:10Tucker Carlson?

  Me too.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  Fully, at this point. Not even a conservative. And there was one thing that happened just before that, that really struck me as strange. And I've told this story before. I'm not going to spend too much time on it, but suffice to say Barack Obama, in the lame duck period, so he, the Democrats lost the election, he's on his way out. There's a resolution in the Security Council condemning the settlements in the West Bank and Israel. And typically, the US delegation will veto those resolutions condemning Israel. Well, Obama's on his way out, he's got nothing to lose, so the US delegation abstains from the resolution, and it passes. And Fox News and all the pro-Israel conservatives are calling him an anti-Semite.

• 18:54Speaker 02

  They're saying, "He hates Jews, he's an anti-Semite, he hates Israel." And I saw that, and it struck me as strange, because it seemed hypocritical. It seemed like how, when conservatives would critique anything about race, we got called racist, or anything about feminism, we got called sexist. All Obama did was uphold US policy on the West Bank that we've had since 67, which is, we don't support the settlements. I said, "How is it anti-Semitic to just be consistent on our US foreign policy?" Like I said, which is a Republican-Democrat consensus. And I got attacked for this. I wrote a big article about this, I tweeted about it. I tweeted at Ben Shapiro. I said, "You know, I've never seen anything on the

• 19:36Speaker 02

  Daily Wire that's actually critical of Israel." And he quote tweets me. And at this time, I have 1,000 followers on Twitter.

• 19:45Tucker Carlson?

  How old are you?

• 19:46Speaker 02

  I'm 18. I'm a freshman.

• 19:48Tucker Carlson?

  You're still a freshman in college, yeah.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. And this is even before I started my show. And I don't know, I probably got 100 likes on this tweet. It wasn't a viral tweet. He quote tweets me and says, "To accuse a Jew of dual loyalty is the surest sign of antisemitism." And like, this is how it sort of begins. And I see this tweet, and by the way, that was on Christmas Eve in 2016.

• 20:14Tucker Carlson?

  Immediately called you an antisemite.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  Uh huh. So I'm driving to Christmas Eve mass with my family, and I see on Twitter, the notification comes up, Ben Shapiro quote tweets me, calling me an antisemite. And I was like, what is this? Like, why is this guy attacking me? You know, because I don't have a platform at this time. I'm not an influential guy or anything. And so then I put out another tweet, similar. I said something like, "If you're China first, you should live in China. If you're Mexico first, you should live in Mexico. If you're Israel first, maybe you should go live in Israel." And again, he quote tweets me and says, "You're an antisemite."

• 20:56Tucker Carlson?

  That same night?

• 20:57Speaker 02

  This was, I think, a couple of weeks later. Happened a little bit further down the line. And so...

• 21:03Tucker Carlson?

  Were you surprised that he knew you were?

• 21:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was. I was surprised at why he cared.

• 21:10Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  Because I'm thinking, how does he even know who I am or what I'm about? And it turned out that Cassie Dillon, she had texted him earlier and she wanted him to take me under his wing. She texted him after that debate and said, you know, "You really like this guy. He's amazing. He did this great debate." She goes, "But he's a little too pro-Trump. He's a little too Trumpy." And he goes, "I'll take a look." And so I guess the two of them were kind of like grooming me in a sense. They wanted me to go maybe and be a Daily Wire, or maybe looking me as a potential conservative activist or influencer. And so they started paying attention to me and the more critical of Israel I was,

• 21:53Speaker 02

  I started to get this really intense pushback from the both of them and from a lot of the people at Daily Wire.

• 21:59Tucker Carlson?

  Why do you think, so you're an 18-year-old college freshman, you're clearly talented and you're engaged, you're really interested, and you ask not crazy questions, like, what is this? And rather than explain it, they just call you a racist, call you an anti-Semite, like, that's the first response? That seems like the least effective, well, it turned out to be not very effective in your case, but that seems like the least effective thing you could do. Why do you think they did that?

• 22:26Speaker 02

  Well, I think that you have to look at it not in retrospect, because hindsight is 2020. And so, looking back, you could say they made a terrible mistake because look at sort of what they provoked or what they catalyzed. But at that time, you gotta consider, I'm 18, with no following, with no network, I'm coming from the suburbs of Chicago, my parents didn't go to college, I have no connections. And so, for them, it was very easy, that if they detected that a promising young guy was gonna become anti-Israel in the conservative movement, they could crush that person easily and grind them under the heel.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  So they sort of were alerted, oh, there's a precocious young guy that isn't on board with Israel, we'll keep an eye on him, and if he gets too vocal or popular, we'll cut him down, we'll crush him. Because at this time, as you know, in 2017, it's a very different time, 2016, 17, and any criticism or dissent on the subject was a death sentence. You became radioactive, unhireable, blacklisted, and that's exactly what happened. And basically, from then on, it was just this escalating series of blacklisting, censorship, hit pieces, rumors, to try to ostracize me from the movement and...

• 23:49Tucker Carlson?

  While you're a college student?

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Yes, as a freshman, yeah.

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• 24:58Speaker 00

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• 25:57Tucker Carlson?

  So, looking back with that 2020 hindsight, I mean, Ben Shapiro seems like a big part of your political evolution. Yes. You went from a fan slash accolade to an opponent and then just pivoted against everything. Yeah. That he believes. Yeah, it was because it was this new dialectic that Trump forced. Yeah. Trump planted the seed. And the seed was America first. Yes. So, once you accept that, a lot of the way we're doing things becomes impossible to support or justify. Right. The contradiction becomes apparent. It gets moved to the center and it becomes unignorable if you're consistent. So, what kind of efforts did they make to make you go away?

• 26:42Tucker Carlson?

  So...

• 26:44Speaker 02

  This is a couple of months down the line. You know, first they would try to dissuade me from asking questions because I was friends with a lot of the Daily Wire writers, not just Cassie Dillon, but many of them, many of them were Jewish. And I would ask them point blank, I would say, so why do we give Israel all this money? $3.8 billion per year? What, what is that for? And they would say, well, you know, there's a really good answer for that, but you're asking it in the wrong way. You're asking it in an anti-Semitic way. I'd say, I'm just, I'm asking for the proof, you know, what's, what's the argument there? And so first it was the sort of, hey, man, could you kind of tone it down? Maybe just don't bring that up so much.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  But I was persistent because at this time I was genuinely inquisitive. I wanted to know, is there an actual reason? And I was actually expecting that there was a really good reason for all of it. And the more that I read, the more that I dug into the subject, the more I found out there's a lot of these neocon Jewish types behind the Iraq war. There's the foreign aid complex, which is really unique. There's AIPAC, which is this intense foreign lobby where it's bipartisan. It seems to be the only thing that the, the parties can agree on. And so it just made me burn more with curiosity. So I just kept asking them and eventually they said, you know what? We're not going to talk to you anymore. And these are my friends.

• 28:07Speaker 02

  I met them, went to Christmas parties with them and all of them, one day said, you're done. We're blocking you. We're never going to speak to you again. We're never going to have you on our show. And I said, wow, like this, this seems like inhuman. I'm struck by how impersonal this is. Like here, I thought we're friends, we're all conservatives, maybe we disagree on one issue. Now I'm being canceled by the right. So I was shocked by this.

• 28:34Tucker Carlson?

  When was this?

• 28:35Speaker 02

  This was February or March 2017.

• 28:39Tucker Carlson?

  So you're still a freshman in college?

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:42Tucker Carlson?

  Are you even paying attention to college at this point?

• 28:44Speaker 02

  No, not at all. And I, my grades started to suffer because I was just really focused on this.

• 28:51Tucker Carlson?

  So that's pretty young to get canceled and pretty young to have friendships destroyed over politics. Like that's usually, you know, like decades down the line.

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:59Tucker Carlson?

  What did you do?

• 29:01Speaker 02

  Well, I just became more emboldened. And so I, I took this story on my show. At this time I was on R S B N and I had this show, which I named after the inaugural, it's called America First. And I would kind of subtly bring up the Israel topic and say, you know, this is something you're not allowed to talk about. This seems like an apparent contradiction. It's a big problem. And they escalated their attacks. Cassie Dillon would call my boss, who she was friends with at R S B N every day for weeks, saying, you'll never believe what Nick said on his show tonight. It's so racist. It's so bad. You gotta take him off the air. It's going to make you look bad. And I would then get word from my boss,

• 29:44Speaker 02

  Joe Seals, he was the founder at Right Side. And he would call me up and say, I don't know what has gotten into Cassie. I thought you guys were friends, but she is calling me every day hysterically, demanding that I fire you. And I was like, wow, like, so it just keeps getting worse. It starts with this, like, they're very weird about the subject. Then they don't want to talk to me. Then they're trying to get me fired. And I'm thinking, okay, so clearly what I'm asking about, there's some truth there that they don't want.

• 30:14Tucker Carlson?

  Did any, I should have asked you this earlier. Did anyone during the course of, you know, pre-cancelization, say to you, here are the reasons, you're not asking the question correctly, but there are reasons that our foreign aid to Israel is so high? Like, and here's what they are.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  They did, but in a very general and vague way. As you know, it's never specific. They would say things like, well, they're, they're our partner in the Middle East. There are democracy in the Middle East. This is very vague. It's rhetorical. And I read The Israel Lobby by Mir Schaimer and Stephen Walt, and they break it down very succinctly, that there's no real strategic benefit. Actually, there are strategic liability. Eastern Mediterranean is not a strategically important region. The intelligence that Israel provides is not useful. Actually, it's detrimental because they frequently lie. The technology we give them, they pass along to the Chinese, which was a big scandal. So I would give them all this and say, yeah, that's not adding up. And they would say, yeah, yeah, well, you know, you really just can't talk about that.

• 31:15Tucker Carlson?

  Your friend said that to you?

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:18Tucker Carlson?

  Wow. Okay, so what happened to your job? The Right Side Broadcasting gig?

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Eventually, I got fired. I got kicked out.

• 31:25Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 31:26Speaker 02

  Because one of these clips that Cassie Dillon had a problem with. She ran it up the flagpole. She took it to Media Matters, actually, which is a left-wing outfit. They're like a cancel mill.

• 31:38Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, the Daily Wire person took it to Media Matters?

• 31:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:42Tucker Carlson?

  Are you sure?

• 31:43Speaker 02

  I'm 99% sure.

• 31:47Tucker Carlson?

  What was the clip?

• 31:48Speaker 02

  It was a clip, ironically, where I was talking about the travel ban, the so-called Muslim ban. And I was defending it. And I said that the First Amendment does not protect foreign nationals. It doesn't protect Salafists, you know, Wahhabists. He's like, you know, I said, they're saying that there's a constitutional right for radical Muslims to come here. And I said that, how are they protected by the First Amendment? They're foreign nationals. And the authorial intent of the First Amendment was actually not even to protect that to begin with. You know, it's kind of anti-Christian radical ideology. So it's something ironically that probably Shapiro and Cassie would agree with. But they recognized the currency that a clip like that would have with the left.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  Because the left could say, you're Islamophobic, you're racist.

• 32:36Tucker Carlson?

  So she brought that to the left, saying, look at this guy. It's not that he's anti-Israel, but he's anti-Muslim.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 32:44Tucker Carlson?

  That's very interesting.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 32:47Tucker Carlson?

  And so that clip appears on Media Matters, which at the time, I was the subject of a lot of attacks from them at the time. And people kind of listened to them.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:56Tucker Carlson?

  Including on the right, they listened to them.

• 32:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 32:59Tucker Carlson?

  So what happened?

• 33:00Speaker 02

  So I had to write an apology. My boss called me up and said, you need to apologize for what you said.

• 33:07Tucker Carlson?

  For being anti-Muslim.

• 33:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 33:10Speaker 02

  And so I, I didn't write, I'm sorry, but I, I had to write something like, well, I should have chosen my words more carefully and this, that and the other. And ultimately then they fired me.

• 33:20Tucker Carlson?

  Anyway.

• 33:20Speaker 02

  Couple of weeks later, yeah.

• 33:22Tucker Carlson?

  What, and what was the pretext for that?

• 33:25Speaker 02

  Well, they wanted to get in the White House press office. They wanted a, a press pass. And they said, it's, the stuff you're saying on the show isn't like a good look for right side. It's, they're not going to let us into the White House if you're with us.

• 33:40Tucker Carlson?

  And that, but the pressure in this scenario came exclusively from the Daily Wire?

• 33:45Speaker 02

  Yes. Yes. Because, and, and here's how I know why. My show got maybe a hundred live viewers every night.

• 33:53Tucker Carlson?

  Not a powerhouse show.

• 33:54Speaker 02

  No. So the media matters was not on to me. They were put on to me by people in the right that wanted me canceled.

• 34:05Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. Well, that's interesting. So then what do you do? You're failing in school. Your show just got canceled. What's your plan now?

• 34:14Speaker 02

  So I dropped out.

• 34:15Tucker Carlson?

  At college?

• 34:16Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Yeah. And I, I hated college and it was very expensive. Even I had a substantial scholarship, but it was still expensive and I didn't like it. So my plan was that I was going to go to a different college. I might work for a year, make some money. And eventually I got the show back about a month later. They came back and by popular demand from my 100 viewers who are very dedicated, uh, right side offered me the show back. And so I, I took the show again over the summer. Uh, and then I applied for a job at the Leadership Institute. And that was kind of the next big saga.

• 34:53Tucker Carlson?

  But you didn't get that job?

• 34:55Speaker 02

  Uh, no, I did not get the job.

• 34:57Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 34:58Speaker 02

  Well, I was told, because I knew people, um, that worked there, that were field representatives there. It was a field representative job. And so I went out for a job training at the end of July, 2017. So after that second semester, and I applied for this field rep job. It was this two week training. And I go there and on the first day of the whole thing, they go around the room of all the prospective applicants. It's like a big tryout basically for two weeks. And they wanted to get everybody to break the ice and know each other. So we did introductions. They said, say your name, how old you are, and why you're a conservative. And at this time, People are not where, let's say, we are right now. They're not America first. They're

• 35:43Speaker 02

  not anything like, they're not talking about great replacement. That's not on the radar for them. So you go around the room and you hear stuff about small government, free markets, you know, personal responsibility, that sort of thing. And they get to me and I said, well, I'm a conservative because we're losing our civilization because of mass immigration. America doesn't resemble America anymore. France is no longer France. I said, and if we don't conserve the demographics, forget about the rest. That's what we need to conserve. And I said that. And I was told later on that at that moment, I was immediately disqualified by the people that were running the job training.

• 36:25Tucker Carlson?

  On what grounds?

• 36:26Speaker 02

  I said, that was too far right. That was too extreme.

• 36:29Tucker Carlson?

  Worrying about who lives in your country is far right?

• 36:31Speaker 02

  Apparently.

• 36:32Tucker Carlson?

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• 37:12Tucker Carlson?

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• 37:54Tucker Carlson?

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• 38:22Speaker 00

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• 39:23Tucker Carlson?

  So where does that, like, where does that leave you ideologically? Like, how are you changing at this point?

• 39:30Speaker 02

  So at this point, I'm realizing that something is deeply wrong here in the conservative movement because we were led to believe in those days of the campus culture wars and Gamergade and all that, is that we're the marketplace of ideas and we're about free speech and the rest of it. And here I am, being like nuked from orbit by Ben Shapiro as a kid.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  And for asking what I thought reasonable questions because I didn't come from some strange background. I come from a normal home, you know, my parents are Catholic, they're married. We came from a relatively affluent suburb. I went to Lyons Township. That's like a very affluent high school. In other words, I didn't wake up as like the son of, you know, William Luther Pierce. I wasn't like a skinhead or something, you know, I was like a normal guy that was like, yeah, like, country's too diverse. We're too pro-Israel. Like, this is reasonable. And I was just getting sandbagged for it and blacklisted. And, and what's more, nobody cared. Like, because I remember going on Twitter and saying, like, you know, why

• 40:38Speaker 02

  isn't anyone sticking up for me? Where's Dave Rubin? You know, the free speech warrior? Where's he on this one? Where's Shapiro? Where's all these people? And, and in some way, they were all sort of complicit in this. So I realized that the conservative movement was completely bankrupt in that way.

• 40:55Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  And I became very radical.

• 40:58Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it, you became, I mean, let me just say, I'm so familiar with, you know, I was much older when it happened to me and much more, much more insulated. I was not a college student. I was like, 45. So, you know, and I was in a much better place to withstand the pressure. But I do think one, and I want to, this is my main question to you, is when you get attacked, when people call you names, like they always called me racist, and I would always think to myself, I'm actually not, I would tell you if I was racist. Little, I'm a little sexist, but I'm not racist. And I never understood why they did that. And then I thought, maybe the point is to make me racist. Where you just get to, you get to a point where you're like, well, if you're going to slander me, then I'll just become

• 41:41Tucker Carlson?

  the thing you're calling me. I do think that's a feature of human nature, don't you? And if you stare too intently at the accusers, at the, you know, whatever Ben Shapiers or Mark Lavins, or Ted Cruz, or whoever it is, calling you names, it like distorts you and you actually change and become what they say you are. Have you thought that ever? Do you worry that that happened to you?

• 42:05Speaker 02

  No, I don't think it ever did because I, I know who I am. I had a very firm grounding of what I'm about, which is that. I was deeply Catholic, and I still am, deeply patriotic and pro-American. And I don't consider myself temperamentally to be an angry or a hateful person. So I never, in other words, lost my center. You know, they say this thing about you look into the abyss and the abyss stares back into you. That never really happened to me. I, I was frustrated. I was frustrated because I felt like I was being denied a level playing field opportunity. And it wasn't fair. I felt like I was right. And these people that were basically hypocrites, grifters, not really conservative,

• 42:50Speaker 02

  they were controlling the conversation and, and as a consequence, they were controlling the Republican movement. And I really perceive this as like an urgent crisis. Because if we wanted Trump to deliver America first, to realize it, it had to, the Trump movement had to transform the conservative movement to reflect the victory that Trump won.

• 43:15Tucker Carlson?

  So, and I won't keep torturing you with biographical questions, but I do want to, like, so how, you get, your show gets canceled, you drop out of college, you have no money, you decide you want to work at the Leadership Institute, which is like a conservative think tank of, or some organization of longstanding in Arlington, Virginia. Can't get the job there because you're worried about immigration. It's all pretty amazing. And then, like, where does that leave you? How did you succeed?

• 43:45Speaker 02

  Well, I continued doing my show. I did it independently.

• 43:48Tucker Carlson?

  What does that mean? How do you do it? How do you do a show independently? Like, how did you do it?

• 43:53Speaker 02

  I started a YouTube channel. And I was in my parents' basement. And I put up a green screen. I got my computer webcam. And I just started going live every night in the same way that I did at RSBN. I just did it on my own channel where I had creative control over it. And, and at that point, I, I basically mounted an attack on the conservative establishment from the outside. I sort of realized that there's sort of two ways you could play this. You could infiltrate the conservative movement. I could recant all my views and apologize and pretend to be one of them and bypass the

• 44:32Speaker 02

  gatekeepers, the censors. I said, or I could kind of be in the wilderness and I would be alone and I would be radioactive, but I could challenge the credibility and legitimacy of the conservative movement and its claim to represent conservatives. And that was kind of the mission was to say, um, no, the immovable standard is America first. I'm going to represent it and the conservative movement is going to have to move to me. I will not move towards them. And I thought, maybe I'll make money and maybe I won't, but I'm going to try it for a couple of years and I'll see how it goes.

• 45:06Tucker Carlson?

  So, but the sight picture in your head was enemy is conservative movement?

• 45:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 45:12Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think, um, you think that was a good choice?

• 45:16Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely.

• 45:17Tucker Carlson?

  Rather than like, but why not like Antifa or, you know, I, I don't know, Anti-Defamation League, or there are a lot of institutions on like George Soros, like why would it be their conservative establishment? Why did you think that was important?

• 45:30Speaker 02

  Well, I, I kind of took a page from Trump's playbook, which is that you have to, in the country, the left was hegemonic over all the institutions. And you have this organized opposition to the left and the Democrats and all the left wing controlled institutions. And the organized opposition comes from movement conservatism, the Republican Party, Fox News, you know, the, the sort of constellation of conservative institutions. And I said, the problem is whether you go Democrat or you go Republican, you're kind of just like getting the same thing. You're getting the establishment effectively. The opposition is basically controlled or moderated. It's not authentic opposition. It's not a true alternative. And so I said,

• 46:15Speaker 02

  we, and by we, I mean the true America first nationalists, we need to fight for the mantle of the opposition. And then leading the opposition, then we can take the fight to the left as the conservatives, as the Republicans, whatever. But first you have to win that internal battle among the audience that the conservatives have. Cause that's really the problem is that they have usurped. The base is extremely conservative, extremely anti-left.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  But the Republican Party, like those that represent them are not at all. They're very, a lot of them are atheists, a lot of them are gay, a lot of them are feminists. And so I said, like, we, we kind of need to rally like Trump did. Rally the base against the establishment. And then take the fight to the left as the true alternative. And if you can win that, then you win the country. That, that was kind of Trump's model.

• 47:06Tucker Carlson?

  What, what did you see as like the most important gatekeepers that needed to be overturned? Pushed aside in order to do this?

• 47:14Speaker 02

  It was the Zionist Jews, like Dave Rubin, like Ben Shapiro, like Dennis Prager. It was these, the guys that were really controlling the media apparatus that seemed to me to be the biggest impediment.

• 47:30Tucker Carlson?

  Fox, Fox is not a Jewish business, though.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  Well, Rupert Murdoch is an ally of Netanyahu, so he's aligned.

• 47:37Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  And he owns the whole News Corp empire, so. And yeah, he's certainly a part of it also.

• 47:44Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, Dave Rubin, though, does he matter?

• 47:47Speaker 02

  No, no, not really.

• 47:48Tucker Carlson?

  Right. I mean, Dave Rubin is like, I don't know, do people watch Dave Rubin?

• 47:53Speaker 02

  They did back then, I mean, because you got to consider they, they were kind of like the ascendant new media, you know? They represented the next big thing.

• 48:03Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, and Ben Shapiro seems irrelevant to me now?

• 48:07Speaker 02

  Now, but back then, for the young, he was huge.

• 48:11Tucker Carlson?

  So maybe you won.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  Oh, certainly.

• 48:15Tucker Carlson?

  Well, wasn't that long ago that many Americans thought they were inherently safe from the kinds of disasters you hear about all the time in third world countries? A total power loss, for example, or people freezing to death in their own homes? That could never happen here. Obviously, it's America. People are recalculating, unfortunately, because they have no choice. The last few years have taught us that. Remember when the power grid in Texas failed in the dead of winter? Yeah, it happened, and it could happen again. So the government is not actually as reliable as you'd hope they would be. And the truth is, the future is unforeseeable and things do seem to be getting a little squirrely. So if the grid does go down, you need power you can trust. Last Country Supply's newest product is designed for exactly that.

• 48:58Tucker Carlson?

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• 49:42Tucker Carlson?

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• 49:58Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 50:28Tucker Carlson?

  So here's my question. So I look at the landscape now and the people I see as, you know, I'll just, I'll narrow it down to foreign policy. Okay. Who is effectively opposing neoconservative foreign policy, which has been the dominant foreign policy of the United States for my entire life, which has been so destructive, I think, and I've seen it. Who are the voices who are sincere in their opposition to that? And who have some ability to change the country's orientation on foreign policy? And those would include Marjorie Taylor Greene.

• 51:06Tucker Carlson?

  J D Vance, Matt Gaetz, me. But you've attacked all of those people.

• 51:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:17Tucker Carlson?

  Why would you, and almost Joe Kent.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 51:21Tucker Carlson?

  Those strike me as someone who's really interested in this topic. I'm not that interested in the Jews, but I'm very interested in the foreign policy question. Those seem like the most sincere people. Those seem like the only hope of the country to get away from this destructive, really self-destructive cycle. Why attack them?

• 51:39Speaker 02

  Well, in short, they attacked me first.

• 51:43Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, but like, who cares?

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Well, let's take Joe Kent.

• 51:46Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, you attacked me constantly. And I'm like, I don't really give a shit. I want to meet the guy.

• 51:51Speaker 02

  You attacked me first, too.

• 51:52Tucker Carlson?

  No, no, but what I'm saying is I'm not whining about it. I'm just saying, like, so? You know what I mean?

• 51:59Speaker 02

  Well, I don't, I don't say so because, like, take Joe Kent, for instance. I supported Joe Kent and I talked to Joe Kent. I got introduced to him by Matt Brainard. Matt Brainard went to my conference in 2021. He bought a table.

• 52:13Tucker Carlson?

  Was he his campaign manager?

• 52:14Speaker 02

  He was.

• 52:15Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  Or he was a consultant, but he was on the campaign. Yeah. And so I met Matt Brainard. He liked me a lot. He loved my conference in February 21, which he bought a table at for his organization, Look At America. And in 2021, we, and by we, I mean my nonprofit and myself and my team, we wanted to support America first candidates in the midterms, like you said, authentic opponents of.

• 52:39Tucker Carlson?

  Me, too. That's how I found Joe Kent.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  Yes. And so I, I met a lot of the people in that sort of scene, like Ryan Guduski, I know, was very supportive of Joe Kent and other people that are more private. I don't want to name, but they put me on, not just to Joe Kent, but Patrick Witt in Georgia, Gibbs in Michigan, a lot of different people. And Joe Kent was one of them. And I had a phone call with Joe Kent and I told him, I had my assistant on the phone too, who's Jewish, by the way, just because I want you to know I'm cool like that. You know, I don't judge. But so I'm on the phone with Joe and I said, look, we support you and we want to do everything we can to help you. We want to have my followers knock on doors for you. We want to boost your social media.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  Anything that you need, we want to help you, I said, and. We don't even want to be publicly associated, I said, because we know that that might hurt you. I said, the only thing that we ask in return is you can't disavow me if the media asks. And you can say whatever you need to say, but you can't disavow. And he said, yeah, I totally agree with you, because if we start disavowing each other, then we're just going to eat each other alive and the left wins. We're in agreement. And a couple months later, Joe tweeted in support of me, because I had been banned on all social media. I was on the no-fly list. So he said something on Twitter like, you know, Nick Fuentes shouldn't be banned. He should not be censored. A month after that, I put out on Twitter, I said,

• 54:09Speaker 02

  Joe Kent is one of the most impressive America First candidates that's running in 22. Well, fast forward a whole year later, I do my annual conference, AFPAK, in February 22. Marjorie Taylor Greene attends. It's, we had 1,200 people and it got a lot of media attention. And I'm driving home, because I'm on the no-fly list at this time. I'm driving home from Florida.

• 54:35Tucker Carlson?

  Can I ask you, pause. By no-fly list, you mean not extra scrutiny, but like not allowed to fly in airplanes in the United States?

• 54:41Speaker 02

  Not allowed to fly, yes.

• 54:42Tucker Carlson?

  How can that, how can, how old were you?

• 54:44Speaker 02

  I was 23.

• 54:47Tucker Carlson?

  Did you have any felony convictions?

• 54:48Speaker 02

  No.

• 54:49Tucker Carlson?

  Okay. How can, I'm not, I wasn't even aware that that could happen. How long were you not allowed to fly in airplanes in the United States?

• 54:55Speaker 02

  One year.

• 54:58Tucker Carlson?

  That's really crazy.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was.

• 54:59Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry, I just want to get that up.

• 55:01Speaker 02

  No, yeah, it's brutal.

• 55:02Tucker Carlson?

  And you can affirm that you were not allowed to fly in airplanes?

• 55:04Speaker 02

  Yes, I have the letter from the TSA, yeah. I was on the do not board list.

• 55:10Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry, sorry to interrupt you.

• 55:12Speaker 02

  No, it's crazy, but, so anyway, so I'm, I'm driving home from Florida after my conference, and I get people start texting me, Joe Kent is on Twitter, and he says, I condemn Nick Fuentes, especially his views on Israel. That's the tweet.

• 55:32Speaker 02

  And I texted Joe and I said, seriously? And he texts me back and he says, we win by addition, not subtraction. I go, well, you just subtracted me out of the movement. I said, because I don't support you anymore. He goes back for seconds. He goes on Twitter and says, Nick Fuentes and his focus on race and religion does not fit with my message of inclusive populism. Inclusive populism? That doesn't sound like authentic America first. That sounds like bullshit to me. And I don't know, I know he's your friend, but I don't know him that well.

• 56:10Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  I'm not on the team.

• 56:12Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I, I, so my read on Joe Kent was he's totally sincere. He, like me, has always been committed to separating out like foreign policy views from ethnicity. Not because, I mean, obviously I'm denounced as an anti Semite every day. So I don't really care what ADL thinks of me, but my Christian faith tells me that there's no such thing as blood guilt. And virtue or sin is not inherited. It's not a feature of DNA. So every person must be assessed individually as God assesses each person individually. And that's like a foundational view.

• 56:52Tucker Carlson?

  So I always thought it's great to criticize and it's question like our relationship with Israel, because it's insane and it hurts us. We get nothing out of it. I completely agree with you there. But the second you're like, well, actually it's the Jews. First of all, it's against my Christian faith. Like, I just don't believe that and I never will, period. And second, then it becomes a way to discredit. That's when I was like, this guy's a fed. I was totally convinced you were a fed because I was like, here he's bear hugging like the one sincere guy who lost his wife in Syria, thanks to fucking crazy wars, neo con wars. And he's discredited, he's doing the David Duke. Like David Duke would always, every time I rolled out a new show, he would issue an endorsement of the show. I've never met the guy. What's that?

• 57:37Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's the feds, obviously. He's trying to destroy me by association, whatever. You see the point?

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, but so, let me ask you this. So if I'm supporting Joe Kent, I'm David Duke bear hugging. If I attack Joe Kent, I'm attacking the only sincere America first.

• 57:53Tucker Carlson?

  Look, I get it. I mean, I do get it and I, I just want to say I love Joe Kent. Um, I don't, I can't, having been denounced by a lot of people I like, I know what that feels like. So I definitely am sympathetic to that.

• 58:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:08Tucker Carlson?

  I was denounced by someone I like last night. I was, I hurt my feelings, you know what I mean? Whatever, and I'm gonna say what her name is, but I helped her. I liked her, you know, it's like, why are you denouncing me? Why didn't you call me?

• 58:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:19Tucker Carlson?

  Right?

• 58:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:19Tucker Carlson?

  I get that. I guess the two problem, but then on the other hand, like one of my favorite people in the world is Glenn Greenwald.

• 58:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love Glenn.

• 58:28Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, what a good man. Glenn must have spent like 10 years attacking me full time. Tucker Carlson is da da da da da. And he was, some of his criticism was correct, actually. You know, a tool of the neo cons endorsing these fucking words. Like he was right, but he really hated me. And then when we started to agree on stuff, I was like, you know what? It's not about me, I don't care. Like I don't want personal peak or my hurt feelings to govern my behavior. I guess that's what I'm saying. I'm not lecturing you, I get it, but I feel like, okay, he pissed you off. It's in a campaign, he's got 19 consultants. This kid's a Nazi, be careful. And I'm like, I don't know, let it go.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  Well, and I, I totally agree with you, by the way. And, um, and, and that's why I don't take it personally at all. Like, and I like you, I've said very positive things about you on my show as well.

• 59:15Tucker Carlson?

  I don't care.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  And I know, but I, I mean to say that, um, my goal is America first.

• 59:22Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  It's not about me, it's not about my personality. It's about winning for America, you know? And by winning, I mean, we want to see our vision realized. But with Joe, for me, it was very specific that he said inclusive populism. And I really didn't like that because to me, there were a lot of similar phrases at this time. Multiracial, working class populism, this kind of stuff. And I said, you know, On some level, we do need to be exclusive, not inclusive. We do need to be right wing. We do need to be Christian. We do, on some level, need to be pro-white. Not to the exclusion of everybody else, but recognizing that white

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  people have a special heritage here as Americans. And so, the reason I opposed him in 22 was not because I was mad, but it was to say, "America first cannot backslide into this kind of inclusive populism message," which I perceive to be more like GOP slop. And I'll tell you, when he ran again in 24, I did not oppose him. I did not oppose him. And I would have supported him if he had reached out or something like that. Because for me, it was very political and professional. I wanted to impose a cost. If you disavow someone because they criticize Israel, if you disavow someone for talking about white people and Christianity, I said, "We can't let that slide." Because, and you understand

• 1:00:49Speaker 02

  why he did it. Like, I don't, on some level, I don't hold it against him in the sense that there is such a strong incentive, it's easy to say, "I disavow all these crazy Christians and all these crazy white nationalists," because it buys you wiggle room with people that are attacking you. It's like, easy to throw them under the bus and say, "I'm one of the good guys." And so, I said, "It's too easy. We need to push in the other direction and say, 'You should feel less comfortable saying that people shouldn't talk about their race and religion. Maybe you'll think twice next time.'" And that, so I did it for a very specific reason, and...

• 1:01:24Tucker Carlson?

  I get that. What I do think is bad, just objectively bad and destructive, is the "All Jews are guilty," or "All anybody is guilty of anything," because that's just like, not true. And we don't believe that as Christians. We, I mean, my hero in life is Paul, because you call him Saint Paul.

• 1:01:46Tucker Carlson?

  Saul of Tarsus, a Pharisee.

• 1:01:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:49Tucker Carlson?

  And meets Jesus and becomes this just incredible man, incredibly brave, smart, loving, like everything you'd want to be as a man, he was.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  Jew.

• 1:02:01Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. So like, you know, and God did that to him. So it's like, you can't, I think that's an, and I don't think it's like mushy liberal bullshit, which I hate. And I hate all the language that you're describing. I get why it offends you because it's code for, I don't really believe what I'm saying.

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:02:20Tucker Carlson?

  I have a PhD in the subject, so I know. But I also think there is like a true, not just principle, but like spiritual reality that we have to defend, which is God created every person as an individual, not as a group. No woman gave birth to a community. Like, we hate that kind of thinking, right?

• 1:02:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:37Tucker Carlson?

  Collective is thinking like that. That's identity politics. That's what Dave Rubin engages in. That's why Dave is like a child. Like you don't pay any attention to Dave because he's like shallow. But we're not going to be that, right? Or no?

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  No, I, I completely agree with you. And, you know, like, and not to be that guy and say that thing, but like, my best friend is a Jewish person.

• 1:03:00Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:03:00Speaker 02

  You know, so like, but here, but here's my, I guess here's my substantive disagreement because I, as a Catholic, I could not agree more with you.

• 1:03:07Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:03:08Speaker 02

  In what you're saying. I love all people, even the ones that don't like us. We have to love them all. And we have to recognize that.

• 1:03:14Tucker Carlson?

  We're required to.

• 1:03:15Speaker 02

  Yes. Yes. And especially Aquinas says the Jews are a witness people. And so they actually have special protections under the law, according to Catholic philosophy. But I guess my substantive disagreement, which I've said on the show also, is the idea that neoconservatism and, and Israel has nothing to do with Jewishness, Jewish identity, the Jewish religion, because clearly the state of Israel and the neocons are deeply motivated by that ethnic identity. And their allegiance to Israel proceeds from that. You know, the, the plan of Greater Israel, the, the blood and soil nationalism. Of Israel. It stems from this ethno religion, which is Judaism.

• 1:03:59Tucker Carlson?

  Well, this is, uh, you know, just BLM, the new version. This is identity politics. They're engaging in identity politics. I, I mean, that's just so obvious to me. But the problem in your response, so you're of, I mean, I get what you're saying. But the problem in your responses, it does not apply to every individual.

• 1:04:20Speaker 02

  No, and I would never say that.

• 1:04:22Tucker Carlson?

  Okay. Well, I just think it's important to say that, not to kind of like dodge the accusations against you. My best friends are Jewish. Okay. I agree. Embarrassing, even though it's probably true and it's true in my case, actually. But whatever. But because just that principle that we're all judged as individuals by what we do, that our faith, the decisions that we make, the way we live our lives. And God will judge every one of us in that way. And that's how we're supposed to judge. Like, is that, I think that's true.

• 1:04:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I, and I totally agree. But I guess the disagreement is you, you say identity politics like it's a bad thing. I think identity is reality.

• 1:05:02Tucker Carlson?

  Identity is reality. Absolutely. You just can't have a country of 350 million this diverse, where it's just like warring ethnicities. Cause then it's just, it's, I mean, it's Rwanda soon. And, you know, the people with the most force just kill the others. So like, you can't have that here. Right?

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, but I would say specifically as it pertains to, you know, you, I think have said it's, it's the neo cons, it's the neo cons. And I think that neo conservatism, where does it arise from? It arises from Jewish leftists who were mugged by reality when they saw the surprise attack in the Yom Kippur War.

• 1:05:41Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. Well, that's a lot of it for sure. But then like, how do you explain like Huckabee? Ted Cruz, and there are a lot like that, John Bolton. I mean, I've known them all. George W. Bush, like Karl Rove. I mean, all people I know personally, who I've seen be seized by this brain virus, and they're not Jewish. They're, and most of them are self-described Christians. And, and then the, the Christian Zionists, who are, well, Christian Zionists, like, what is that? Right? I can just say for myself, I dislike them more than anybody. Because like, what? Because it's Christian heresy, and I'm offended by

• 1:06:23Tucker Carlson?

  that as a Christian. That's why. So I don't, like, why not? Like, I'm pissed at the neocons, very pissed. I've said that a million times. I've been mad since December of 2003, when I went to Iraq. And so like, I went and hassled, hassled, asked straightforward questions to Ted Cruz, because that seemed like, there's a sitting senator who's like, serving for Israel by his own description. He seemed like a worthy target. I'm not going after MTG, who's like, the most sincere person. Like, why not go after Ted Cruz? I don't understand.

• 1:06:53Speaker 02

  Well, again, with Marjorie, I was a friend of hers, and she spoke at my conference, and then the day after, she pretended like she didn't know me. And that was in 2022.

• 1:07:03Tucker Carlson?

  But it's, things are, it's a continuum. Like, you said yourself, you showed up in college, like, one set of views, they evolve, as you interact with reality, as reality itself changes, as like, you learn things, you grow, like, whatever, people change.

• 1:07:16Speaker 02

  Well, and, and look, now that everyone agrees with me, I will graciously forgive them, for being so hostile.

• 1:07:25Tucker Carlson?

  But why make it personal? Like, who cares?

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  It's not personal for me. Like, with Marjorie, if she wanted to, you know, be aligned or whatever, I, I would totally be on board with her.

• 1:07:35Tucker Carlson?

  But where do you disagree with her?

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  I don't know, because I don't know what her new views are. She's really only come around on Israel this year. And I've been talking about this issue for 10 years, and-

• 1:07:45Tucker Carlson?

  Right, okay. All right, you win, but like-

• 1:07:47Speaker 02

  No, but it's not, but it's not like that. It's just, it's, it's a little, it feels like BS to me that- And I've said this on Twitter the other day. It's like I got treated like I didn't exist.

• 1:07:58Tucker Carlson?

  Right, I got it.

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  And canceled for 10 years for saying these things. And that's really where all this drama comes from. A time when there was this intense censorship and nobody was on board with this stuff. Like, again, Marjorie, she fired, one of my people was working in her office. She fired that guy because someone found out that a Groypa was working in her office. And, you know, that guy got his life ruined. And she pretended like she didn't know me and lied and said, I had no idea the conference I was speaking at. She knew exactly what it was. And that's fine. But now that she's on the same page, there's like this expectation like, okay, well, um, you know, why, why did you have a problem with her in the past? It's like, because she was on the other team in the past.

• 1:08:42Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, well, so was, so was everybody.

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, so now, now.

• 1:08:45Tucker Carlson?

  So were you. So what? I mean, what, why not? You don't, you want, it's gotta be bigger than just like us, right? And it's not, I don't think, I'll speak for myself, I'm, I don't feel like I'm at war with the neocons or Israel. It's much bigger than that. It's like, you want to restore America to a place where your grandchildren would enjoy growing up. That's it.

• 1:09:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, and I've, and as far as Marjorie.

• 1:09:06Tucker Carlson?

  So it's not, who cares? I don't, you know what I mean? Like, okay, lots of people hurt my, if Dave Rubin called me tonight, which he would never do, though he has myself, um, and said, you know, I'm really sorry I called you Hitler, like, I didn't mean it. You're raising lots of legitimate questions, which I think I sort of agree with, or I'm thinking about in a deeper way. I'd be like, great.

• 1:09:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:28Tucker Carlson?

  Like, I don't care.

• 1:09:28Speaker 02

  That's, and look, Tucker, that's why I'm sitting here, you know?

• 1:09:32Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:09:32Speaker 02

  I mean, because we had a contentious dialogue.

• 1:09:35Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I thought you were a Fed.

• 1:09:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I thought you were a Fed.

• 1:09:38Tucker Carlson?

  I was a Fed?

• 1:09:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:40Tucker Carlson?

  I'm not a Fed. Um, but whatever, I don't care.

• 1:09:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, we showed each other a badge, as we know.

• 1:09:44Tucker Carlson?

  No, but I thought you were a Fed because I was like, why not? It's not cucking to say.

• 1:09:52Tucker Carlson?

  You're not talking about all Jews when you oppose a foreign policy position. It's not. It's, there's nothing liberal about that. It's just true. That's the Christian position. Okay. And two, why are you attacking like the best people and not the worst people?

• 1:10:06Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I mean, again, he, he disavowed me for my views on Israel and said, I talk too much about white people and Christianity. And to me, that's like a sincere ideological disagreement. And, you know, same thing with Marjorie. Marjorie fired my guy. She disavowed me and, um, you know, and, and you worked with Blumenthal on that article, but you called me on the phone and I, we talked and we settled that.

• 1:10:31Tucker Carlson?

  From my pers- and this is all so stupid and inside baseball and whatever, but, um, for, just for the record, I was like, how, who, for, for sure, who is this kid? I'm working at Fox News. I'm, I'm aware there's an internet, but I'm more out of it than you may appreciate. And I'm like, out of nowhere, attacking this one. I had Joe Kent shoot to my house. I did this interview with him and I'm always in search of a sincere politician, not, don't have to agree on everything, but I really believe sincerity is the whole game. If someone's heart is pure, he will be brave. I always have thought that. And it's turned out to be true. Marjorie's a perfect example. And that's all that matters. If you're afraid inside, if you're weak inside, you will crumble when it matters. So I really felt like, wow, Joe, I don't agree with him on everything, of

• 1:11:16Tucker Carlson?

  course, but I was like, this guy is really sincere. He's like a good person. And then you show up and you're like, he's a CIA officer and I'm gonna, I mean, was a CIA contractor, but like really like crush the guy. And it's like, why? Of all people, you, you agree on 90% of stuff, you know? That was my view. And I was like, well, clearly this kid's a fed.

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  Right. But you didn't know the whole story.

• 1:11:38Tucker Carlson?

  I didn't. You're absolutely right.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  And, and look, and now that, and I want to be, I'm not trying to be combative. I think that-

• 1:11:45Tucker Carlson?

  Go ahead. I'm not, you're kind of my feelings.

• 1:11:46Speaker 02

  No, I mean, here, here's what I'm trying to say is now that Marjorie is pushing in the right direction, I absolutely support everything she's saying. And I've not been critical of her at all this year. Cause I think that what she's doing is extremely courageous. And I think you're right. She is sincere.

• 1:12:01Tucker Carlson?

  So it sounds like you're, not to put words in your mouth, but your, just your life experience has left you so stung by the Republican establishment, you've-

• 1:12:13Tucker Carlson?

  You don't, you don't trust anybody, it sounds like.

• 1:12:14Speaker 02

  Well, no, I mean, the, these people attacked me when the rules were different and now they got better. And now I'm good with them. I mean, I'm, I'm willing to be good with them, but I think that, I don't know if Marjorie still has a problem with me or not.

• 1:12:28Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know. I don't know. I do know though, and this is the last criticism I will level, and this is maybe not even your fault, but I do know that, you know, the coordinated attacks against totally reasonable questions about what's in America's interest and what's not. Those are all coordinated by the Israeli government. It's all come to light now. And they're against me. I've always thought I have the most, world's most moderate position on Israel. Don't hate Israel. Just don't want to get involved in their wars, don't want to pay for this, don't want to pay for abortion on demand in a foreign country, sorry. We're more cutting food stamps on our own, like, that's outrageous. It's not America first. That's my view. Not embarrassed of it at all. I, they are totally determined to take me out, I think because I'm reasonable.

• 1:13:12Tucker Carlson?

  Who would disagree with that? And call me all these names, the most dangerous anti Semite, when I'm not even an anti Semite. And they're not doing that to you. Because, this is my view, and this is not necessarily your fault, but because they're like, Fuentes discredits the reasonable people because he's always banging on about the Jews, the Jews. And so he makes everyone else look like a Nazi. And so it's like, he's playing a pretty valuable role in the same way that Israel's always funded extremism throughout the Middle East, including Hamas, because it discredits the reasonable people. That's a fact.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I would just say, disagree. I mean, you know, because you say, you said the other day, they like me. I don't know what you're talking about when you say that, because.

• 1:14:00Tucker Carlson?

  Well, I don't know.

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  Let me just kind of rebut that.

• 1:14:02Tucker Carlson?

  By the way, I'm not saying you have anything to do with this. I'm just saying, I've noticed the phenomenon.

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

  Totally. And I, I just reject that because they have been messing with me for my entire adult life.

• 1:14:13Tucker Carlson?

  The ADL?

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  The ADL got me banned on YouTube. The SPLC posted my house on their website.

• 1:14:20Tucker Carlson?

  What do you mean, posted your house?

• 1:14:22Speaker 02

  They posted a photo of my house on their website.

• 1:14:25Tucker Carlson?

  How can they do that?

• 1:14:26Speaker 02

  I guess that's a free speech thing.

• 1:14:28Tucker Carlson?

  The SPLC posted a picture of your house on their website?

• 1:14:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:14:32Tucker Carlson?

  When?

• 1:14:33Speaker 02

  In 2022.

• 1:14:36Tucker Carlson?

  Actually?

• 1:14:36Speaker 02

  Yes, they wrote an article. They said Nick Fuentes bought a building in this city. And they said, we interviewed his neighbors and property records reveal this and that. And on the front page, the picture for the article is my house where I live.

• 1:14:51Tucker Carlson?

  That's crazy. And then someone showed up with a gun and tried to kill you at that house?

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:14:57Speaker 02

  So that's why I say, you know, you say, well, they're not doing this to you. It's like the ZOA, the SPLC, the ADL, the Daily Wire. All these groups have been on me for years. So that's news to me if they're really endorsing my activities.

• 1:15:11Tucker Carlson?

  It could just be my perception, but I guess what I'm saying is, as someone who thinks his own views are like completely reasonable, pass every smell test. You could x-ray my soul. I don't think there's a lot of hate in there. And to the extent that they do make me feel hateful, the people who attack me, I do like say prayers about it. I don't, we're not allowed to hate people. As we forgive those who trespass against us, that's like our core prayer. So I just feel like it's the, I don't know, am I being paranoid? I feel like going on about the Jews like helps the neo cons.

• 1:15:45Speaker 02

  Well, what, what about my views do you think are unreasonable if yours are reasonable?

• 1:15:50Tucker Carlson?

  Um, I think, again, I just, I don't think it's cucky. I think it's reality to say that guilt is not inherited. Blood guilt is bad. One of the reasons that I'm mad about Gaza is because the Israeli position is everyone who lives in Gaza is a terrorist because of how they were born, including the women and the children. That's not a Western view. That's an Eastern view. That's a non-Christian, that's totally incompatible with Christianity and Western civilization. They say, or the defenders of Western civilization. Not with that attitude, you're not collective punishment is the enemy of Western civilization.

• 1:16:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:25Tucker Carlson?

  And so I hate that attitude. It's genocidal. The current claims that I'm a cancer, you know, from Ben Shapiro, whatever, we need to be excised from the body of conservatism is a genocidal position that it basically encourages violence, as they well know. The whole thing I hate. So like anytime you say a whole group of people is responsible for the sins of some of its members, like I'm out.

• 1:16:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that's not my view.

• 1:16:52Tucker Carlson?

  It's not, okay. So what are, so tell me your views, like rather than, you're one of those people, one of the reasons I wanted to meet you is you're one of those people who is defined by clips.

• 1:17:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:17:02Tucker Carlson?

  And I'm one of those people also.

• 1:17:03Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 1:17:04Tucker Carlson?

  So I get it. So I'm gonna just shut up and you tell me what you actually believe.

• 1:17:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, and, and listen, I mean, and I appreciate you saying that because it's, that's just a reality of the media environment we're in. So if you, I don't expect you to know all my views, but I mean, as far as the Jews are concerned, I think that, like I said, you cannot actually divorce Israel and the neocons and all of those things that you talk about from Jewishness, ethnicity, religion, identity, and let me give you like a perfect example. So you say on your show that we need to treat Israel like any other country. And I sort of understand that in principle, because Israel is another foreign country.

• 1:17:49Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:49Speaker 02

  But Israel is unlike every other country in the sense that because the Jewish people are in a diaspora all over the world, there are significant numbers of Jews in Europe, but also in the United States. And because of their unique heritage and story, which is that they're a stateless people, they're unassimilable, they resist assimilation for thousands of years, and I think that's a good thing. And now they have this territory in Israel. There's a deep religious affection for the state. It's bound up in their identity, the story of the Exodus from Egypt, the promise of the land, all these things. So let's say in the United States, for example, somebody like a Sheldon Adelson, he's not Israeli.

• 1:18:33Speaker 02

  Is he an ideological neocon? Does he believe in the promise of democratic globalism? I don't think necessarily. His heart is in Israel, and it's because he is a proud Jewish person. And I guess what I'm saying is that if you are a Jewish person in America, you're sort of, and again, it's not because they're born, but it's sort of a rational self-interest politically to say, "I'm a minority. I'm a religious ethnic minority. This is not really my home. My ancestral home is in Israel." There's like a natural affinity that Jews have for Israel, and I would say on top of that, for the international Jewish community. They're extremely organized, and many of them are critical of Israel

• 1:19:18Speaker 02

  or Israel's current government, or the project of Israel. But I guess what they have in common, unlike, let's say, like Singapore, for example, is that they have this international community across borders, extremely organized, that is putting the interests of themselves before the interests of their home country. And there's like, there's no other country that has a similar arrangement like that. No other country has a strong identity like that, this religious blood and soil conviction, this history of being in the diaspora, stateless, wandering, persecuted, and in particular, the historic animosity between the Jewish people and the Europeans.

• 1:20:01Speaker 02

  They hate the Romans because the Romans destroyed the temple. That's why Eric Weinstein goes to the Arch of Titus and gives it the finger and takes a picture. We don't think like that as Americans and white people. We don't think about the Roman Empire in 2,000 years ago. They do. And, and so I guess that's really, and I don't think that's me saying the Jews, the Jews, the Jews. I don't think that's me being hateful. I don't think that's me being collectivist. I think that's understanding that identity politics, whether you love it or hate it, whatever you feel about it, it's a reality that we live in a world of Jews and Christians, of whites and blacks. These identities mean something to us, and they mean things to each other, and we, we can't sort of wish them away. And it feels like white people and Christians

• 1:20:45Speaker 02

  are the only ones that do that.

• 1:20:47Tucker Carlson?

  There's no question about that, your last point, for sure. One of the reasons they do that is because they've been taught to hate themselves, of course, since the Second World War. Another reason is, however, the reality of a multi-ethnic country requires you to sort of set aside community or group interests in favor of... Corporate interests, universal interests, national interests, and you have to do that or else it doesn't work. And so, you know, I agree, those attitudes, I mean, certainly in other parts of the world, people think this way, but you can't have that here. And so it's just important to remind everybody that, yeah, you know, things may be generally

• 1:21:31Tucker Carlson?

  true, but like, again, they're not always true. And there are people who just strongly disagree. And by the way, in the specific case of Israel, there are a ton of Orthodox who I know, who are opposed to the state of Israel. They're just, they're more Jewish than Dave Rubin, a lot more. And yet they oppose it. Jeff Sachs is like the most, wonderful man, the most Jewish, the most articulate critic of the state of Israel that I'm aware of. So like, I don't know, that's, that's just meaningful. You can't, if it's, if everything is inherited, then there's no hope for the continuation of America. Does that, do you see that?

• 1:22:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't, and I don't think it's genetically inherited. And what you're saying about putting aside the tribal interest for the corporate interest, that's absolutely the case. And that's the only way the country's going to stay together.

• 1:22:21Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly. That's my concern.

• 1:22:23Speaker 02

  And I absolutely agree with you. I would say though, that the main challenge to that, a big challenge to that is organized Jewry in America. I don't think Bill Ackman is capable of that. I don't think Shel Matelson is capable of that. I don't think Yoram Hazony is capable of that, for that matter. And, and many other, you know, on the right and the left. And I see it, I see Jewishness as the common denominator. And you're right, it's not, not all Jewish people feel the same way. No one would say that, but that does seem to be the common denominator. And I just feel like it needs to be called out explicitly. And I like what you said, if, the other day, if you're serving in another country's military, or have dual citizenship, you really can't be a part of this project.

• 1:23:06Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's just, that's an easy one. But I am much more comfortable as a Christian and an American, keeping it on that level. Because, you know, it's easy to just set rules that, universal rules that apply to everyone, not just the Jews, or the Christians, or the anybody, just like Americans can only serve in the US military, or they lose their passport. I mean, I don't know, that's not hard. And I don't know, why not, why not just say that?

• 1:23:34Speaker 02

  Say what?

• 1:23:35Tucker Carlson?

  That. Why not make every statement about how Americans ought to behave applicable to all Americans? Like, it's the defense of universal values that will hold the country together, and the emphasis on proclouer group values that will break it apart inevitably.

• 1:23:51Speaker 02

  Because it's a, this is a particular issue, and it's acute. Like I said, I think they are unique in that way. I think that's a unique issue, especially in the Republican Party,

• 1:24:02Speaker 02

  especially in the conservative scene. Um, and, you know, this-

• 1:24:07Tucker Carlson?

  So how would you like this all to be resolved?

• 1:24:09Speaker 02

  What I would like is for the US government to not be influenced by these kinds of foreign allegiances, not with money that comes from, you know, American citizens like Sheldon Adelson, not from foreign lobbyists. So, I mean, in terms of tangible things, I don't think we disagree on any of it, like registering AIPAC and FARA, banning dual citizenship, like, I'm basically in agreement-

• 1:24:32Tucker Carlson?

  I think 80% of the public agrees with those things.

• 1:24:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, so-

• 1:24:35Tucker Carlson?

  So that's kind of what gets me a little bit annoyed. It's like, these are, like, America First, the concept, it's the most popular, self-evidently true idea you could have. Don't let foreign powers, especially tiny ones far away, control your country. Like, of course not. Everyone agrees with that on both sides.

• 1:24:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:56Tucker Carlson?

  So, the trick is not to let that idea get subverted. Does that make sense?

• 1:25:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I'm, I think we agree on that.

• 1:25:05Tucker Carlson?

  But it's subverted when they're like, "That's hate!" "No, that's hate!" It's not hate.

• 1:25:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, and, you know, here's what I will say. I think that there is increasingly a contingent, because what you're talking about exists. When you say that there are people that legitimately detract from this, with, there is legitimate racial hatred out there.

• 1:25:24Tucker Carlson?

  Big time.

• 1:25:24Speaker 02

  And it's growing. And I know people on our side are afraid to talk about it because they know, like you said, they're going to get called a cuck or a squish or whatever. And I agree with you, the people that are detracting from that need to be called out. And I think there should be no harbor for cruelty, hatred, prejudice, those kinds of things.

• 1:25:43Tucker Carlson?

  And some of them, I'm sorry to be a conspiracy nut. I really try not to be a conspiracy because it's embarrassing, you know, but after January 6th and just finding out the number of FBI personnel in the crowd, it's like, and I've just seen this, David Duke is a great example. Some of these are, the Charlottesville rally.

• 1:26:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:02Tucker Carlson?

  Had a bunch of feds there being like, we're white supremacists. We hate the blacks. You know, using the Edward, whatever, you know, it's like, that's not real. Like there is some of that going on, don't you think?

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  I think that, um, I think that there's a lot of sincere people.

• 1:26:16Tucker Carlson?

  For sure. Oh, I completely agree.

• 1:26:18Speaker 02

  You know, and they're just numbskulls and some of them are legitimately, they see the opening that there's legitimate critique of this and they see an opening to air out their grievances. Um, they get a license to, they think it's okay now. And, uh, and I do think it's important to differentiate and say that fundamentally, I guess the word that I would use, I've been thinking about this a lot lately is reassurance because I think there's a legitimate, um, there is legitimate need to reassure people. And this is kind of what I've been doing on these podcasts that we don't want to harm anybody. We don't want to kill anybody. We don't want to harm anybody. We just want to put America first. And, and I guess, you know, to the extent that I've been taken out of context

• 1:27:01Speaker 02

  over the years or things like that, I'm trying to set the record straight and say, you know, and I appreciate you've given me this opportunity. These are my real views. I'm not one of those haters, let's say.

• 1:27:11Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. Well, I think people should be allowed to describe what they think. I mean, that's like a basic human autonomy question.

• 1:27:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:18Tucker Carlson?

  Like if I want to know what you think, I should just ask you and let you talk, right?

• 1:27:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:23Tucker Carlson?

  So what's going to, who's going to be president? Who should be president next?

• 1:27:26Speaker 02

  Who should be president? Well, yay, of course. Kanye.

• 1:27:32Tucker Carlson?

  You had dinner with Trump.

• 1:27:33Speaker 02

  I did.

• 1:27:34Tucker Carlson?

  And Kanye.

• 1:27:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:27:36Tucker Carlson?

  What did you think of that?

• 1:27:38Speaker 02

  It was surreal, because those are my two heroes. Those are my two, like, number one heroes of all time. I've always been a Kanye West fan.

• 1:27:48Tucker Carlson?

  You liked the music first?

• 1:27:49Speaker 02

  Yes, the music, the fashion, everything.

• 1:27:51Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 1:27:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:27:53Tucker Carlson?

  You wear those weird one-piece shoes?

• 1:27:54Speaker 02

  I do.

• 1:27:55Tucker Carlson?

  You actually do?

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, absolutely.

• 1:27:58Tucker Carlson?

  Like, in public?

• 1:27:59Speaker 02

  Yes. You don't think that's cool?

• 1:28:02Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know what I think.

• 1:28:05Speaker 02

  I'll get you some.

• 1:28:06Tucker Carlson?

  I've worn the same clothes since high school. Don't ask me about clothes. I'm not good at that at all. Um, that's hilarious. So, but you, so you've always been a fan?

• 1:28:14Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, huge fan.

• 1:28:15Tucker Carlson?

  You described your love for Trump, like, since your

• 1:28:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:28:18Tucker Carlson?

  childhood love for Trump. So what was it like to find yourself at dinner with them?

• 1:28:22Speaker 02

  It was, I mean, it was funny, because it was literally Thanksgiving dinner. It was three days before Thanksgiving. So not only was it dinner, but it's, I'm having Thanksgiving dinner with Yay and Trump at the same table, and these are like my heroes. And, um, I mean, the way that it went was sort of interesting. Yay is sort of shy. He deeply admires Trump. He loves Trump. And I like that about him, because Yay really admires anybody that's an industrialist. He loves builders, visionaries, architects. He's very into that. So he has a deep regard for Trump. And so, at the beginning, it was a little awkward, because he wouldn't talk. And, um, he was sort of shy.

• 1:29:03Tucker Carlson?

  Yay.

• 1:29:03Speaker 02

  Yes, which is surprising, right? Because he's so outspoken, but Trump was trying to get him to talk. And he was, it was, it was kind of like a boomer moment, because Trump was trying to get him to talk about, like, opportunity zones. He was giving him, like, the black voter pitch, you know, the black Republican.

• 1:29:19Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 1:29:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I was like, dude, like, he's not that kind of Republican, to say the least, you know?

• 1:29:26Tucker Carlson?

  Fair.

• 1:29:27Speaker 02

  At this point, I think people know that.

• 1:29:29Tucker Carlson?

  So what were you saying?

• 1:29:30Speaker 02

  Well, um, so eventually, you know, Trump didn't have a lot of luck with him, so he's kind of fielding the table, and he's talking to me, and

• 1:29:39Tucker Carlson?

  Trump does like other people to talk.

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  Yes. Well, he likes to talk to.

• 1:29:42Tucker Carlson?

  He does, for sure. But he asks questions.

• 1:29:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, he does.

• 1:29:46Tucker Carlson?

  More than you would think.

• 1:29:47Speaker 02

  Well, he's a great, he's a good guy, fundamentally.

• 1:29:50Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:50Speaker 02

  He's a very warm guy. So he was asking everybody, you know, what's up and who are you? And we got to talking and you know, I guess it was going too well because I was being very complimentary of Trump. And yay was kind of kicking me and saying like, you know, a couple of days prior, we were talking about if Trump and yay wind up on the debate stage, what is that going to look like? And I was coaching yay, like, these are his weak areas. Like, this is where we gotta attack Trump. And so yay was like, tell him what you were saying the other day. Tell him what you're saying last night. And I was like, dude, that's our playbook. Like, we don't want to blow up our... And Trump was like, go ahead, don't be bashful. Tell me, what is it? And I said, you know what?

• 1:30:33Speaker 02

  I said, I said, I think you're one of the greatest living Americans. I said, I'm a young guy. I said, I really have nothing to say other than thank you. I have nothing but gratitude for what you've done for the country. I said, I, it's really not my place, you know, to, to give you advice or correct you. And he said, no, no, don't be bashful. Tell me. And the story that I brought up was, this was really what sent me. In the first Fox News debate in 2015, in the Republican primary. Yes. Bret Baer, the first question, said, raise your hand if you will not pledge to support the eventual nominee. Yes. And Trump raised his hand. Cause that's what he was saying. He said, you know, if I don't win, I'll run independent and I'll make Republicans lose.

• 1:31:15Speaker 02

  And so I brought that up and I told that story and I said, you know, I said, I feel like what was inspiring in 16 is that you were willing to let the Republican establishment lose. Like you were serious about blowing them up, such that you are not going to say, like Pat Buchanan, who I respect, but Sam Francis acknowledged, that was one of his great mistakes, was ultimately endorsing Bush. I said, you, it showed you were serious, you were playing to win. Because you said, I will let this Republican Party crash and burn. I want to run as the Republican, but if I can't, I'll run independent. I said, and that's how I knew you were serious and that's how I knew you were the guy.

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  I said, and I feel like lately, this was right after Ronna McDaniel became the head of the RNC again, I was like, I feel like lately you're just behind all these people. I said, we're not here for Kevin McCarthy. We're not here for Ronna McDaniel or Mitch McConnell. I said, we are here for you, like we will die for you. We are loyal to you. I said, and when you did that, that showed you could win and we rallied. I said, so I, I want to see more like that. I want to see you hit DeSantis, let's say, who was running against him. And he was like, oh, okay. He goes, oh, so you like that. It was right after he called them de sanctimonious.

• 1:32:30Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:30Speaker 02

  I said, that was awesome. You should have kept hitting him. He's like, oh, you like that? He goes, this guy's hardcore. I like this guy, he was saying about me. And so I was trying to just get like, get his mojo back, you know, and, you know, gas him up a little bit. And so that, that's how it went between me and him.

• 1:32:46Tucker Carlson?

  And what was yay saying at this point?

• 1:32:48Speaker 02

  Well, he, he was sort of, he was beaming with pride. Cause Trump turns to him and says, who is this guy? This guy's great. And yay was like, right? And I was like, this is just, this is amazing.

• 1:32:59Tucker Carlson?

  Did you call your parents from the parking lot?

• 1:33:01Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. You'll never believe, yeah.

• 1:33:05Tucker Carlson?

  Um, I try never to think like, how will this be perceived? It's better just to like, be as honest as you can be all the time. And, you know, and honest people will respond, agree or disagree, but they'll, they'll, they'll feel your sincerity and your honesty. But there are always people who are going to like distort it. And I recounted the, basically the Christian gospel at Charlie Kirk's memorial service. And everyone's like, you're an anti Semite. I literally didn't have one thought about Jewish people. I had nothing to do with that. It was whatever. So, and I mean, but I was thinking about this conversation, which I'm sure I don't, can't imagine what that, in the ways that it'll be distorted, but I, I do hope that people who want to learn what's happening and who you are, will watch the whole thing. It's probably naive hope that it won't be reduced to whatever.

• 1:33:49Tucker Carlson?

  You're saying something naughty and me laughing and see they're both Nazis. I mean, you know, that's going to happen of course, but I'm willing to take that risk because I just think it's important to know. You're clearly ascendant. You're enormously talented, more talented than I am for sure as a talker. So, and they've, you know, there've been a lot of attempts to silence you and it hasn't worked. So my calculation, I'll just be as blunt as I can be. It's like, I don't want to have Fuentes on. It was gonna be like, you, but you're a Nazi, just like Fuentes. Okay. But then I'm like, I don't think Fuentes is going away. Ben Shapiro tried to like strangle him in the crib in college. And now he's bigger than ever. So it probably would just be worth

• 1:34:32Tucker Carlson?

  hearing what Nick Fuentes thinks. I just want to be transparent about my motives here.

• 1:34:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:37Tucker Carlson?

  So those are my motives. Let me ask you, I referred earlier to the assassination attempt against you. And it's very fashionable, you know, among like the permanent victim class, like every, you know, BLM leader was, oh, they're trying to kill me, or Seth, whatever, from the Babylon Bee, people are trying to kill me. And people use threats against them, which are like daily for a lot of us, as a way to kind of make themselves unassailable or immune from criticism, or to attack their enemies. Your words inspired violence. What is stochastic terror? I can't even pronounce it. You know, it's like some academic term,

• 1:35:17Tucker Carlson?

  whatever. But you had a real assassination attempt, like an actual one, which got no publicity that I recall. What happened?

• 1:35:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, you know, it was after the election last year. I put out this tweet, and I said, your body, my choice on election night. And, you know, I wasn't, look, I'm not going to apologize for it, but I thought it was like a weak, it's like a lame joke. It's kind of like the most obvious term of phrase.

• 1:35:45Tucker Carlson?

  College joke, yeah, it's kind of funny.

• 1:35:46Speaker 02

  So I wasn't, I had other good jokes that night, but that was like the one that caught on. Because I just think it captured the imagination of liberals who were like, it's over for us, which it kind of is, you know, but in some ways. But so I put that out there. I didn't even vote for Trump, but I put that tweet up.

• 1:36:04Tucker Carlson?

  Who'd you vote for?

• 1:36:05Speaker 02

  I didn't vote at all. I just recused myself. But that's just what makes it ironic because I became in some ways emblematic of the election, even though I didn't participate. But so it got 100 million impressions on Twitter and and people were saying on the news that kids were saying it in school. It was on like the news that in middle schools and high schools, the boys were saying that to the girls, your body, my choice. So it became this thing where it's like, he's creating this toxic environment for women. So the internet lost its mind and people then started posting my address online because they were so unhappy with the tweet.

• 1:36:46Speaker 02

  And so on Tik Tok and on Twitter, a screenshot of my address, my phone number, all my personal information.

• 1:36:52Tucker Carlson?

  Oof.

• 1:36:53Speaker 02

  It went viral. And when I say viral, I mean, there were multiple tweets that got 20 million views with my whole readout, all my information.

• 1:37:02Tucker Carlson?

  Like your actual address, where you spend the night?

• 1:37:04Speaker 02

  Yes, where I where I live, where I do my show, all of it.

• 1:37:09Tucker Carlson?

  Damn, did you know that?

• 1:37:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I started to see it. So the election Tuesday, obviously, it was like Thursday that my address starts blowing up. I was going to do a show Friday and someone shows up to my house, some some weird looking guy shows up to my house and just walks through the yard, walks through the gangway into the backyard and is just circling my house and then goes away. So we called the cops, me and my producer, and we said, maybe we shouldn't do a show tonight. And that weekend, we hired private security just for the weekend, like 200 people.

• 1:37:44Tucker Carlson?

  You didn't have security?

• 1:37:45Speaker 02

  No, no, I don't have security. Well, I didn't then.

• 1:37:49Tucker Carlson?

  Of any kind?

• 1:37:50Speaker 02

  Of any, I didn't have cameras or anything even. I had nothing.

• 1:37:53Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 1:37:54Speaker 02

  I was raw dogging it. Yeah, which was not smart, maybe, but. Never had a problem like that.

• 1:38:00Tucker Carlson?

  I've always lived that way, too.

• 1:38:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. But so that weekend, we hired a security guard just to park his car outside the house and monitor things. Literally 200 people came.

• 1:38:12Tucker Carlson?

  To your house?

• 1:38:12Speaker 02

  Yes. Not all at once, but one after the other. Driving by, yelling, walking by, throwing eggs. Multiple people threw eggs in my house. Ordering pizzas, ordering DoorDash, you know, whatever. Walking through the gangway. It was like a war zone. Like, the security guard was yelling at people all night, and it went on all weekend. And then it went on throughout the next week and the next weekend. And it was bad. I got out of my house. I went to a hotel for a week while this was happening, waited for it to blow over.

• 1:38:44Tucker Carlson?

  Did you do your show from the hotel?

• 1:38:45Speaker 02

  No, I took a week off.

• 1:38:47Tucker Carlson?

  Wow. Did you announce any of this in public?

• 1:38:49Speaker 02

  No, I had to keep it very...

• 1:38:51Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 1:38:51Speaker 02

  I didn't want to track more of it.

• 1:38:53Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:53Speaker 02

  You know, because if you say, "Oh, they're here," then people go, "Oh, no, we gotta keep up the pressure," you know, or turn it up. And people at that time were talking about burning my house down. Like, on TikTok, there were viral videos of people saying, "We're gonna burn his house down." And then they doxed my parents' address. People were shown up to my parents' house. It got really bad. And eventually, it just blew over. About a month passed, and at that time, so it was like mid-December, mid-late December. It's actually funny. It was December 18th. I remember because that's an important date to me.

• 1:39:28Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 1:39:29Speaker 02

  And it's Joseph Stalin's birthday.

• 1:39:31Tucker Carlson?

  Oh.

• 1:39:32Speaker 02

  I'm a fan.

• 1:39:33Tucker Carlson?

  You're a fan of Stalin's?

• 1:39:34Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Always an admirer. But we don't need to go into that, I guess.

• 1:39:39Tucker Carlson?

  Well, let's, uh, okay, let's get back. We'll circle back to that.

• 1:39:42Speaker 02

  It was weird because the reason I mentioned that, it was almost like, because I woke up that day, and I was like, "Oh, it's December 18th." And I was just like very acutely aware of like, "Today's like a strange day. This is the day that the attempt happened." And so, nothing had been happening for weeks at this point. So, elections like, what, November 3rd, month and a half has passed. Nobody's coming to my house anymore, rarely. And I'm doing my show like normal, and I'm reaching the end of the show, and I see out of the corner of my eye, I get an alert from my Ring doorbell camera that somebody's at the front door. And so, I'm reading through my Super Chats, I'm going through live chat

• 1:40:23Tucker Carlson?

  You're on the air.

• 1:40:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm live. And, you know, I'm working through the messages, and I'm keeping an eye on it, and I see that this guy has a loaded gun. The guy's

• 1:40:33Tucker Carlson?

  Start to laugh.

• 1:40:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, well.

• 1:40:36Tucker Carlson?

  So, you're live, live, and you see that there's a guy with a gun outside your door?

• 1:40:43Speaker 02

  Yes. He's got a motorcycle helmet, and a backpack, he's got a gun drawn, and he's knocking on the door yelling. And, the thing is, I didn't want to tip him off that I knew he was there, because I thought, I don't want him to get the drop on me or something. You know, I just didn't want to give him any information about, you know, because I don't know if he's listening to my show, if I start freaking out or cancel the show, I don't know, maybe he knows more about my movements inside. So, I keep the show going for like, a minute, and I wrap it up very quickly. I finish the show, my producer comes running in, and I say, "Who is that? What's going on?" And he goes, "Oh, I called the cops, they're here,

• 1:41:28Speaker 02

  the guy's gone." I said, "Okay, good." So, I start getting changed out of my suit, and I hear gunshots go off outside.

• 1:41:35Tucker Carlson?

  Damn.

• 1:41:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I literally like, jumped to the ground, because I'm like, I don't know what's happening here. And I step outside for a minute after the dust kind of settles, and the, there's like, 10 cop cars all up and down the street, and they have the whole block locked down. Police tape everywhere, there's like, a dozen cops. Like I said, the whole block is shut down, the alley is shut down, and they go, "Get back inside, get back inside." We have no idea what's going on. We have no idea what happened. And they wouldn't let me or my producer leave until the morning. That's how late they were there. And finally, at the end of the, at the end of the night, after all the cops left, I came out in the very early morning.

• 1:42:19Tucker Carlson?

  Did no one come and explain any of this to you?

• 1:42:20Speaker 02

  No. No, nobody said anything.

• 1:42:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's ridiculous. And finally, I go out in the morning and I asked the guy, okay, what happened? He told me the story. It's what turns out that it's this young guy. He's 23 years old, white nerd, short guy. He was at U of I, University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign, about two hours south of where I live. He killed three people earlier in the day. He went to his roommate's house, college roommate's house, killed his roommate, killed the sister, the guy's mother, got in his car and drove directly to my house, parked outside my house, got out,

• 1:43:03Speaker 02

  a 22 pistol and an automatic crossbow. Weird choice. And he knocked on the door, which is where I saw him. He went around the house. He tried, he tried the back door, tried the front door. And the cops pulled up. He took off running through the gangway, hopped the fence, ran into the neighbor's house. I guess he went into the neighbor's basement because the door was unlocked. He was hiding from the police. He shot two of their dogs. Which is devastating. He runs back outside and the cops see him. He shoots at the cops. The cops shot him in the face and he dies on the spot.

• 1:43:47Tucker Carlson?

  Who, what was his motive?

• 1:43:50Speaker 02

  They never told me. To this day, I have no idea. There's no...

• 1:43:53Tucker Carlson?

  They never told you?

• 1:43:54Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:43:55Tucker Carlson?

  So what contact did you have with the police after this?

• 1:43:58Speaker 02

  They came by about a week later. Illinois State Police came to retrieve the Ring camera footage of the whole incident. And so they had me download, download that onto a thumb drive. And that's it. I never heard from the cops, never heard from the government.

• 1:44:13Tucker Carlson?

  Not at all?

• 1:44:14Speaker 02

  No, nothing.

• 1:44:15Tucker Carlson?

  A guy comes to murder you. He's murdered three other people and two dogs. He gets shot to death and no one bothers to tell you anything?

• 1:44:22Speaker 02

  Nope, nothing.

• 1:44:25Tucker Carlson?

  Is it really a country at this point?

• 1:44:26Speaker 02

  No. It's ridiculous and...

• 1:44:29Tucker Carlson?

  So what was his motive? Do you have any idea?

• 1:44:31Speaker 02

  I have no idea. So the story that I read online, because obviously the news followed up on this and they said that, so he was like five foot five. He got, I guess he was involved with drugs, actually with his roommate. They sold drugs together, something like that. They had a falling out over the drug money or something like that. The roommate beat the shit out of him. So bad, he dropped out of school. He had this major falling out with the roommate, but they were close. Had a big falling out. The shooter took him to small claims court over some money. And I guess this guy was just in a downward spiral. He lost his job. He got in a hit and run crash and ran from the police.

• 1:45:14Speaker 02

  Then he was swearing at the cops when they showed up to arrest him. And I guess his life just kept getting worse and worse and worse. I assume he took it out on the roommate and popped off.

• 1:45:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:27Speaker 02

  Killed the whole family.

• 1:45:28Tucker Carlson?

  Horrifying, but how do you fit into that?

• 1:45:31Speaker 02

  So this is just my opinion, speculation. This is like a month after Luigi Mangione. He had on, and the shooter at my house had on a motorcycle helmet and like a costume. And so I think he was maybe like a copycat of Luigi Mangione. He thought he was going to be like a hero and assassinate some reviled political figure who was going viral at that time, being hated for that tweet. So I think that might've been the motive, but that's pure speculation. I have no idea.

• 1:46:01Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, it's a well documented fact that all kinds of bad actors use unstable people for political assassinations. Right? It's happened. We know it's happened. So do you think this might be an example of that?

• 1:46:16Speaker 02

  I don't think so, but it's certainly possible. The reason I say I don't think so.

• 1:46:21Tucker Carlson?

  It's kinda funny, you're, I mean, I think of you as conspiracy minded, but you don't have a conspiracy in mind here.

• 1:46:27Speaker 02

  No, because I really believe that when you look at all these things, and by these things, I mean, these like really disturbing instances of violence like Luigi Mangione, or Charlie Kirk, or these school shootings, there is something going on with these kids. It's nihilism, it's these people that are maybe mentally defective, extremely online. I think there's like a real problem there. And, um, and I don't doubt that sometimes these people are involved with maybe a foreign government, or they're being groomed, or put up to it by an operative. But I think to assume that it's always that ignores that like, there's a very real problem of nihilistic surrealist violence that comes from young

• 1:47:09Speaker 02

  people. And, you know, like this guy killed, it's a triple homicide out of nowhere, and then he tries to kill me. I think he just went crazy, but I could be wrong.

• 1:47:20Tucker Carlson?

  Describe the circumstances that have led to this violence. Like, what, how does a normal kid, young man, go from being a normally young man to being a murderer?

• 1:47:32Speaker 02

  I think that it has a lot to do, if you read through all these stories, they always have a few things in common, which is that, and people have pointed this out, this is not new, SSRIs are always a big one.

• 1:47:44Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 1:47:44Speaker 02

  But what that points to is a depressive streak. It's always somebody that is a loner, socially dislocated, or socially dysfunctional. You know, they don't have many real life friends, engage in real life activities, slip through the cracks. That's always how it starts. Then they get into, either they're medicated by a therapist with SSRIs, or they self-medicate, which is extremely common with alcohol, weed, which is extremely potent now, and you could get THC from like a vape pen. So it's very powerful, very accessible. You know, when I was in high school, my stoner friends would have to like go on a walk to the park and roll a joint. Now with the vape, you can hit that anywhere, I guess.

• 1:48:28Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 1:48:29Speaker 02

  It's very discreet.

• 1:48:31Speaker 02

  They also do psychedelics. I think that's a huge part of it. And

• 1:48:35Tucker Carlson?

  How is that a huge part of it?

• 1:48:37Speaker 02

  I think that a lot of them get turned on. They'll do alcohol, marijuana, and then I think they get into psychedelics like LSD or MDMA. And I think those things induce psychosis, these psychoactive drugs, whether it's marijuana by itself or it's LSD. I think they tend to induce psychosis and exacerbate those like existing problems. And basically what happens, I would say that that is maybe the next step. And then the other ingredient that's always there is although they don't have a social life in the real world, they have a social life on the internet.

• 1:49:15Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:49:15Speaker 02

  And so they're deeply involved in obscure internet forums, Discord, gaming communities. Increasingly, ChatGPT is inducing psychosis. People talk to ChatGPT all day, all night. And you basically have between the three of these things, they kind of go into like a different world. Between the psychoactive substances, the make believe reality of the internet, totally disconnected from the real world. I think they enter into like this delusional state. And I think that's where that shooter in Minneapolis, I think that's what that was. I think if Tyler Robinson is found guilty, there's been some interesting screenshots about him and his transgender boyfriend.

• 1:50:00Speaker 02

  It's the same story there, if that's true. And I would imagine it was not dissimilar with the guy that showed up and tried to kill me. I think those are always the ingredients that produce that kind of violence.

• 1:50:12Tucker Carlson?

  It's interesting, your audience, as I imagine it, I've never seen any of your numbers. I don't even know how big your audience is. It seems big to me, but I think of them as young men. Is that's, that's the bulk of your audience, right?

• 1:50:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:50:27Tucker Carlson?

  And yet here you are criticizing weed and video games and the internet and you work on the internet. You are a creation. I mean, you wouldn't exist without the internet.

• 1:50:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:50:37Tucker Carlson?

  You didn't get a job at NBC News. So what, what kind of reaction do you get when you say, when you criticize weed, gaming and the internet to young men?

• 1:50:47Speaker 02

  A lot of them agree with it because they get it. It's their life. A lot of them, that's their life. Their life is, and another thing we didn't even bring up is the porn thing, which is there also. This is their life. Weed, gaming, porn, and I think they know it's bad. I think they know there's like some sense of guilt. And so it's interesting. I would say it's maybe an 80/20 split, where 20% say, "Oh, you're against weed? Not cool, man. It's just a plant." Well, you know, they're very defensive about it, about these addictions. And I think 80% say, "I know I have a problem. Like, I have a guilty conscience. I know it's bad. I know it's terrible."

• 1:51:29Tucker Carlson?

  Why are you against weed?

• 1:51:30Speaker 02

  Because I think that it compromises the integrity of your mental faculties. I think there's something deeply wrong with that. When you, I'm against alcohol too. I think it's wrong to numb pain. I think pain is a part of life. I think sobriety is like, should be experienced. And I think that weed is even worse, because I think that, one, it's very dangerous. There's a lot of numbers now out of like California and Washington that people are going to the hospital for psychosis. People are going crazy because of it.

• 1:52:04Tucker Carlson?

  It's also more subtle and therefore more insidious. Like, you can't, you know, I've done it. If you have a, you know, 12-pack for breakfast, like, everyone knows. But if you take a hit of the dab pen, like, nobody knows. So you can use it all the time.

• 1:52:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it makes you a loser. It makes you lazy. You know, people that are, people that are addicted to weed are not motivated, don't care about anything other than weed. You know, there's sort of like an irony there where, I used to hang out with a lot of stoners in high school. I never smoked weed, but all my friends did. And they were so chill and relaxed and didn't care about anything. But if you criticized weed, they would freak out and get extremely defensive.

• 1:52:49Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, I've noticed.

• 1:52:50Speaker 02

  Right? If you insinuate that it's addictive, if you say it's a problem, they get very, like, junky behavior. And so I've always hated. I think it's disgusting.

• 1:53:02Tucker Carlson?

  What is porn exactly? Like, describe how available is porn? What is it? I know what porn is, but like, you said it's a huge factor in the lives of young men and a bad factor. Why?

• 1:53:16Speaker 02

  Well, this is another thing where it's, it's reality distortion. That, that's kind of the theme. Just like psychedelics distort reality, just like a kind of internet society is a form of delusion, so is porn. In the sense that, you know, a lot of people maybe don't realize, and we talked about this a little bit, people are getting turned on to porn when they're like 10 years old. And it's when you are going through puberty, when you're developing your sexual faculties, how could you stay away from that? Every kid has a phone, every kid has an iPad, and every iPad and phone is, if you, you

• 1:53:58Speaker 02

  know, if you know what it is, loaded up with porn. And it's infinite, and it's ubiquitous, and it's, you can get every kind of it you want, whenever you want, it's in your pocket. And so, something that is almost never talked about is that this is a generation that's totally sexually dysfunctional, I think, because of pornography. And some people are able to cope with it, some people don't have a problem, but I think a lot of people, and maybe even a small minority, have a serious problem with it. And the problem-

• 1:54:30Tucker Carlson?

  How does it make people sexually dysfunctional?

• 1:54:32Speaker 02

  I think that it's impossible for a real woman to compete with the availability and the novelty of pornography. A real woman, uh, you know, like, without getting graphic, is, she's only one person, and, you know, she's, maybe she wants to do something sexual, maybe she doesn't. Porn is, you could have a 100 different women in one sitting, doing anything, that whatever, whatever niche or idiosyncratic thing a person might be into, it's there.

• 1:55:11Speaker 02

  And so I think that novelty combined with that availability, it makes it so that, you know, when you think about courting a woman, juice isn't worth the squeeze. And so there's like also a problem of like erectile dysfunction, people that can't enjoy regular sex because it does not compare to the intensity, the novelty and the availability of porn. It's hyper stimulation. And so I think that's sabotaging a lot of normal sexual relationships.

• 1:55:40Tucker Carlson?

  It seems like it's making a lot of people gay, too.

• 1:55:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, and trans.

• 1:55:44Tucker Carlson?

  You think that's true?

• 1:55:45Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 1:55:46Tucker Carlson?

  What is that?

• 1:55:47Speaker 02

  I think that the novelty is a huge part of that. I think that if you are somebody that uses pornography multiple times per day, which many people do.

• 1:55:57Tucker Carlson?

  Actually?

• 1:55:58Speaker 02

  Oh, absolutely.

• 1:55:59Tucker Carlson?

  That's a lot of jerking off.

• 1:56:01Speaker 02

  It's a huge problem.

• 1:56:02Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:03Speaker 02

  And, you know, if you're doing that multiple times a day, every day, for years, since you're a kid, well, eventually you get bored and you want to move on to something more extreme. And you're kind of, it operates, I think, similar to like a drug. You kind of have the same kind of resistance to it that you would to a drug or a tolerance for it. And you're always chasing that initial feeling, the first time you used it, or the first time you saw a certain thing. And I think eventually you just chase more taboo, more transgressive. And I think maybe some people are more prone to that than other people going in a really extreme direction.

• 1:56:42Tucker Carlson?

  How Charlie Sheen got AIDS, actually.

• 1:56:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:45Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. Through just being jaded and looking for something more transgressive. That's just a fact.

• 1:56:50Speaker 02

  And there's something too about what it does when you look at it, when you, because people don't realize that it is a fundamentally different experience being involved in intercourse versus watching other people have intercourse. And I think that actually does something to you.

• 1:57:09Tucker Carlson?

  Tell me, what do you mean?

• 1:57:11Speaker 02

  I think that, you know, for example, I think Steve Saylor has written about this, that there's multiple kinds of transsexuals. And he says that one kind of transsexual is somebody that likes the idea of seeing themselves as a woman. It's autogynephilia.

• 1:57:24Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:57:25Speaker 02

  And I think that, you know, one of the theories for that is you, you watch a man having sex with a woman that isn't you so much, you kind of achieve an identity with the woman in like a weird, sick way. You almost identify with the woman. And so there's weird things that happen when you're

• 1:57:41Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:57:42Speaker 02

  watching that and having such strong emotional and sexual experiences with it.

• 1:57:48Tucker Carlson?

  That's fascinating. I have always been, I've sensed for a long time, having had a lot of young male employees mention porn as a problem. I mean, the big porn companies give visibility to foreign intel services on the backend. So that means people know what you're looking at. There's likely video and audio of you watching. So that, you know, that's like so, so such a deal killer for me. I'm not a huge expert on the topic, but I have always sensed this was a huge deal, but I've always been too embarrassed to like do a show on it.

• 1:58:21Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:58:22Tucker Carlson?

  But it sounds like you're describing something that's everywhere that affects everybody and that is, do you think it's related to the, you know, the huge decline in like actual sex and relationships and marriage screwed up dating? All of this derives in part from porn, do you think?

• 1:58:41Speaker 02

  I think it's a huge part of it. It's a huge factor. And it's even on the other side, too. It's become so destigmatized for women to actually participate in porn. Only, people don't even recognize that OnlyFans is a whole separate category. It's a new, it's an innovation in the realm of pornography because you have what everyone considers, what everyone knows as porn, which is like videos of porn stars, like dedicated career sex workers having sex in a relatively controlled environment or something like that. But then you get OnlyFans, which is like Patreon for nudes or sex. And basically,

• 1:59:22Speaker 02

  There's now a very large subculture, much larger than people want to admit, of women who the moment they turn 18, that is what they do is they make an OnlyFans account and they become an amateur porn star. And it is completely casual, you know, because you could say that maybe 10 years ago, even at the heyday of internet porn, to be in porn, you gotta be a porn star. Like that's your life and that's your career and that's who you are and it's very shameful. With OnlyFans, it's like, um, it's like having a TikTok. It's like, here's my link tree. Here's my Instagram account. Here's my Facebook account. Here's my YouTube and here's my OnlyFans.

• 2:00:03Tucker Carlson?

  Why would any of this be legal?

• 2:00:06Speaker 02

  I think that, um, well, there's like you indicated, maybe there's an intelligence benefit to that.

• 2:00:13Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:14Speaker 02

  Maybe there's a political benefit to that. I think that-

• 2:00:16Tucker Carlson?

  Well, why wouldn't you arrest the people who run something like that?

• 2:00:19Speaker 02

  They should be. If you had a Christian government.

• 2:00:21Tucker Carlson?

  Or how about just a government that cares about its people? I mean, is Iran a bigger threat or is OnlyFans? Iran's not turning my daughters to prostitution that I'm aware of.

• 2:00:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:00:31Tucker Carlson?

  Right? I mean, that seems like one of the worst things that could happen to any society.

• 2:00:35Speaker 02

  Oh, absolutely.

• 2:00:37Tucker Carlson?

  So how big is the support for that? Like if a candidate were to come out and say, we ought to arrest the guys who own MindGeek, which is the biggest, I think it's the biggest porn supplier in the world, or the guys who run OnlyFans, what would the reaction be among, I don't know, people under 50?

• 2:00:53Speaker 02

  I think there would be broad support for that.

• 2:00:55Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 2:00:55Speaker 02

  I do, actually, yes.

• 2:00:56Tucker Carlson?

  I hope someone will say that.

• 2:00:58Speaker 02

  Someone needs to.

• 2:00:59Tucker Carlson?

  I hope someone arrests them, like, right away.

• 2:01:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. That was actually one of-

• 2:01:02Tucker Carlson?

  Seizes their assets and puts them in prison.

• 2:01:04Speaker 02

  Well, seizes their, their, their bodies and puts them in jail. Yeah. I mean-

• 2:01:08Tucker Carlson?

  The owners of that, people who are, I mean, talk about human trafficking.

• 2:01:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 2:01:11Tucker Carlson?

  I thought we were against human trafficking.

• 2:01:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:01:14Tucker Carlson?

  So you, but you think that young people, because you always think of young people as so liberal, but like, no, they wouldn't think that was crazy?

• 2:01:20Speaker 02

  No, I, I think especially among young men, they know it's a problem. It's ruining their lives. And they know it.

• 2:01:28Tucker Carlson?

  So what are the other factors that prevent? I'm sorry, I called you gay, by the way. But I'm always, I think I'm just too old or something. I'm like, what? Why isn't anyone married? You tell me, why isn't, why aren't people married?

• 2:01:40Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, honestly, it's the women. The women are extremely liberal. No one talks about that. They're increasingly, they do, especially after the last election. There's a 45 point difference between men and women. The men are extremely conservative increasingly. The women are extremely liberal.

• 2:02:00Tucker Carlson?

  What are they liberal on what issues? Like, what does that mean liberal?

• 2:02:03Speaker 02

  Oh, on, on, they're very feminist.

• 2:02:06Tucker Carlson?

  Like actually?

• 2:02:07Speaker 02

  Extremely feminist, yes.

• 2:02:08Tucker Carlson?

  They don't believe that, do they?

• 2:02:10Speaker 02

  I think they do.

• 2:02:11Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 2:02:11Speaker 02

  Absolutely, yes.

• 2:02:12Tucker Carlson?

  How could you believe that? The gender roles are a construct that none of this is inborn? Like, you'd have to be an idiot to think that.

• 2:02:19Speaker 02

  They like the idea of it. They, they like the, because of course, I think all women naturally want strong men.

• 2:02:27Tucker Carlson?

  Of cour- obviously.

• 2:02:27Speaker 02

  They naturally want a Chad, you know? They want like a tall, buff guy. But they, I think they like the idea of, none of them want to work either. None of them actually want to work.

• 2:02:40Tucker Carlson?

  That's what I'm saying, of course, that's, right. It's obviously true, it's always been, work outside the home.

• 2:02:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:02:45Tucker Carlson?

  They might have enough work at home. There's a lot to do. But no, I completely agree. So that's why I question like, they're feminists in what sense?

• 2:02:52Speaker 02

  Yes. And, you know, they like these vague appeals to equality. We, we want a chance to work and we want respect and, you know, ultimately, I think the whole political system is just based around women never being accountable for any of their choices. Ultimately, that seems to be what, that's what abortion is.

• 2:03:12Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, of course.

• 2:03:13Speaker 02

  Because 99% of abortions are elective. So they say it's an unplanned pregnancy. You had sex out of wedlock with someone you didn't intend to have kids with. So now we have to kill the kids in the womb. And, you know, these no-fault divorce laws. These women get married to guys maybe they never intend to stay with. And then when they're out, they're done. And they want child support and they want half the stuff. And I think a lot of men are looking at women and they're, they're very liberal. They're overweight. They have a very high estimation of themselves. I think that people call it ho-flation.

• 2:03:49Tucker Carlson?

  Ho-flation?

• 2:03:49Speaker 02

  Yes, their, their sense of their own looks and sexual value is very inflated. And so a lot of people are looking at these like frumpy, obnoxious, loud mouth liberal women who are, who are also very promiscuous and saying, this is not actually appealing at all. And I don't, I don't want to start a family with a person like this.

• 2:04:11Tucker Carlson?

  Sounds awful.

• 2:04:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is.

• 2:04:12Tucker Carlson?

  But if you believe in the patriarchy, as I fervently do, because it's just reality, you know, we didn't choose the system. We were born into a system that is part of nature. Can't get out of it. So if you believe that that's true, which it is, then you think that men should lead. And if it's going to be better, men should make it better because that's their job.

• 2:04:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:04:33Tucker Carlson?

  So you don't want to give them a pass, do you? It'd be like it's all the, the girls suck. So.

• 2:04:38Speaker 02

  I, I don't even blame it on the women because I think that it's, it's the incentive structures. You know, women are allowed to do this by the legal system, by kind of social norms. Technology is a big part of it. The attention that is available to women. Women go on Instagram and they get attention from thousands of men. So it's the incentives. But I would say that, because I hear this all the time. People say, well, the men need to step up and be better and lead the women. Easier said than done.

• 2:05:08Tucker Carlson?

  I agree.

• 2:05:09Speaker 02

  You know?

• 2:05:09Tucker Carlson?

  Of course, I agree with that.

• 2:05:11Speaker 02

  They're at war with the system and, and not even just the system, but also society. Because let's say you find a, one of these so-called good girls, who's Christian and traditional, but through osmosis, wherever you go, she's going to be in society. She's going to be on Tik Tok. She's going to be on Instagram. She's going to be talking to other women. And maybe she's one way you, when you meet and get married, but 10 years down the road, 15 years, 20 years down the road, people change. And I think that women as kind of the ultimate conformists, the ultimate enforcers of like social norms. I think eventually the pressure from society kind of gets to them and a lot of them will go in a different direction.

• 2:05:53Tucker Carlson?

  Depends what kind of husbands they have. I mean, if there's real leadership at home, I don't know a single happily married woman who's liberal. Not one. I know a lot of married women. I mean, I'm 56. All the women I know are married. And every happily married woman is non-liberal. I can't even imagine. There's, there's no category for happily married, middle-aged liberal woman. There's, there's never been one.

• 2:06:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:06:16Tucker Carlson?

  So like, maybe the job is to, you know, make a girl happy and like, all this nonsense ends.

• 2:06:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know. I think that, that, that could be a bottomless pit too, because the one critique I have of the men is, and you're right about this. They enable this behavior.

• 2:06:32Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's for sure.

• 2:06:33Speaker 02

  It's epidemic of simps who, and especially with Christians, I've noticed this. This is why Andrew Tate has so much appeal and the Christians are kind of losing this conversation. Andrew Tate's a Muslim polygamist who is very chauvinistic and, and you could even argue it as someone who has ran an OnlyFans site himself. Like, is not an observer, let's say, of Christian sexual morality.

• 2:06:57Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 2:06:58Speaker 02

  But men are going with him because he's putting women in their place. He's talking about patriarchy and women's place in a society like that. Whereas Christian men, Catholics, Protestants alike, are both kind of tone policing the men. And they, they worship their wives. They worship the women, put them on a pedestal. And they, um, you know, they, they kind of get bossed around. They get henpecked by the women.

• 2:07:23Tucker Carlson?

  I think we're required to love our wives. Like, that's, I mean, all over the New Testament. Husbands, love your wives. Wives, respect your husbands. That seems like a very natural balance to me.

• 2:07:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, and I think that you have to love your wife as your wife.

• 2:07:41Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:41Speaker 02

  A lot of men.

• 2:07:42Tucker Carlson?

  As opposed to what? Your mom?

• 2:07:45Speaker 02

  Well, no, like, like your buddy.

• 2:07:48Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 2:07:48Speaker 02

  Cause I hear this all the time and I, I hate this. Guys will say, I, I married my best friend. And I think, you know, she's your wife. She's not your best friend. Cause there's a difference.

• 2:08:01Tucker Carlson?

  What is the difference?

• 2:08:02Speaker 02

  I think that when you talk about your best friend, you're a peer, you're an equal. And I think your best friendships are with other men. And I think that your wife ultimately is subordinate to you. She's your helpmate. And ultimately, as the man in the marriage and as the father, you have authority, the final say over the household. And she can give advice. It's not to say, I'm not a freak, where you say, shut up, woman. I mean, of course, you discuss things with your wife and your wife gives input, but the authority rests with the man.

• 2:08:34Tucker Carlson?

  Of course, of course. But there's, God set up this kind of amazing system where men are physically stronger. So like, of course, you could make your wife do whatever you wanted. You're bigger than she is.

• 2:08:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:08:45Tucker Carlson?

  But he also instilled in men this desire to please your wife. Like, that's a very natural thing. You want your wife to be happy.

• 2:08:53Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 2:08:53Tucker Carlson?

  And the whole happy wife, happy life thing is completely real. It's like you can't get away from it. It's not, like, all of these things, it's not a choice. It's the biological reality that you live with, that you were born with. Like, you want your wife to be happy. If she's unhappy, you're unhappy. To a much greater extent than vice versa, right?

• 2:09:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:13Tucker Carlson?

  I think men care about their wives being happy much more than wives care about their husbands being happy.

• 2:09:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:09:16Tucker Carlson?

  I have noticed. And that's compensation for their lack of physical power. That's my view of it. And that's why it is this kind of perfect balance. But somebody needs to be the final decision maker. I completely agree. And when you, when you give up that, when you abrogate that, there's no respect, there's unhappiness, and then there's infidelity.

• 2:09:34Speaker 02

  Right. Well, that's the ingredient that's missing. The way I would put it very succinctly is, men right now are the responsible party, but have no authority. And that doesn't work.

• 2:09:46Tucker Carlson?

  No, it doesn't.

• 2:09:47Speaker 02

  You know? If you are held, if the buck stops with you, and you're to blame, and you're the responsible one, then you also need to be able to have the final say and call the shots. And one without the other doesn't work. And I think that-

• 2:09:59Tucker Carlson?

  I think that's really smart and absolutely right. I do think, I just noticed this, that men who stay unmarried for too long- Become like, kind of fragile. There's something about the give and take, there's something about living with, in fact, I think it's the key to life, someone you don't fully understand.

• 2:10:18Tucker Carlson?

  That broadens you, that keeps you always thinking, that makes you wiser, more patient, more thoughtful, more self-aware, and more flexible. And those are all good qualities. And the, and the absence of that, like in homosexuality, or like, men who are single too long, they get very rigid. Have you ever noticed this? I like things the way I like them, and they just get like, no.

• 2:10:46Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah. I certainly get what you mean by that.

• 2:10:48Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, you don't want that.

• 2:10:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:52Speaker 02

  I would say that, when, when you say, you don't fully understand women, to me, I feel like women are very simple. In terms of-

• 2:10:59Tucker Carlson?

  Have you ever lived with one?

• 2:11:00Speaker 02

  No, I haven't lived with them, but, I mean, and, and don't get me wrong, maybe it's difficult, but I feel like they're pretty simple.

• 2:11:06Tucker Carlson?

  We're all pretty simple. I mean, that, you know, no one's more simple than I am, but, you know, we're all pretty simple. But what I mean is, like, on a day-to-day, on the level of experience, like, you don't always understand what they're saying. Because it's never about what they say it's about.

• 2:11:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:11:21Tucker Carlson?

  And men are, just tend to be kind of dog-like in their straightforwardness, you know, I'm hungry, I'm horny, whatever it is.

• 2:11:26Speaker 02

  I, I disagree. I feel like men are complicated. I feel like women are, like, I'm hungry, I'm horny. I feel like men are very complicated.

• 2:11:33Tucker Carlson?

  Really, how?

• 2:11:35Speaker 02

  Because men have different, men are masters of the universe. Women are the universe, you know? This is what Spengler says about them. And, so I think that men have like, a deep connection to things like math and space, and they want to conquer the world, and, you know, things like this. And, and women, I feel like, are actually very primal and instinctual.

• 2:11:56Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 2:11:56Speaker 02

  They want security. Yeah, yes. Sonic, you know, they're of the-

• 2:12:00Tucker Carlson?

  Hundred percent. Never embarrassed by bodily functions. Men are so squeamish.

• 2:12:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:12:06Tucker Carlson?

  Women are not, at all. They give birth. No, that is absolutely true. But I mean, in the way that women present their concerns, there's almost always, something that's not being fully expressed. Like, I got mad at you last night because I was pissed about something last year. That's not a male thing to do. You can't remember what happened last year.

• 2:12:24Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 2:12:25Tucker Carlson?

  Right. And so, but anyway, but whatever the point, men and women talk past each other, constantly. They don't always know what the other one is saying. And that frustration actually gives way to like great beauty over time, I would say.

• 2:12:41Speaker 02

  I don't know. I I've I've personally find women very frustrating when they are not expressing.

• 2:12:48Tucker Carlson?

  And I just. That's the beauty of it.

• 2:12:50Speaker 02

  I see. The way I look at it is like, when you look at your favorite TV shows.

• 2:12:55Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 2:12:56Speaker 02

  The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, it's like the wife is the villain because it's like the main character. If the wife could just get out of the way, would be running the show. And that's kind of how I feel like Ayn Rand, I agree with her about this. She said that the wife's role is like hero worship. The guy is the hero. The guy is supposed to be the entrepreneur, the conqueror, whatever. And the woman is really supposed to support the man's goals and be in his world. And I've.

• 2:13:24Tucker Carlson?

  Man, that's the last thing successful men need is more power worship, more hero worship, more you're so great. Well, you get that at work. You don't want that at home. You become an unbearable asshole and then you fall prey to what destroys every successful man, which is hubris, like you mistake yourself for God. You need someone who's not interested in what you do at all, only interested in you. And that's how you become balanced and wise. That's how you know your own limits. Because the ass kissing is what kills you. It's not, I mean, you had someone come to murder you at home, it you've been, it doesn't seem to have affected you that much.

• 2:13:59Speaker 02

  And if I were married, dude, she would never let me hear the end of it.

• 2:14:02Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's probably true, but but that's not, that's not what destroys men. It's not adversity that destroys men. It's comfort and flattery that destroys men. Right? That's what happened to King David. It's what happens to them all.

• 2:14:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:16Tucker Carlson?

  You're so great. You can never go wrong.

• 2:14:19Speaker 02

  I just feel like we do, we have, um, I don't feel like we have an abundance of affection from women.

• 2:14:25Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:26Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Like, in terms of where the pendulum is at, I feel like the women are very unloving to the man.

• 2:14:35Speaker 02

  That's why I like they don't cook. Cause that's like the best way to express the love for a man. I said this on my show the other night. I'm like, the most beautiful words a woman could say is like, I made you dinner. I made you cookies.

• 2:14:45Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:46Speaker 02

  Cause that, that is like an act of love. And I think that, you know, speaking as maybe from a different generation, the way that men feel now is like, you know, women are not really providing too much. They expect so much from the men. They wanna, they want the man to be rich and provide.

• 2:15:03Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:03Speaker 02

  They want the man to be fit and a real leader and a real man. They also want to split the chores with the man. They want the man to do half the laundry and half the dishes and things like that. And it's like, so what do you do all day? You're on Tik Tok, you're like doom scrolling and eating Cheetos? Like what, what actually are you providing in the relationship? So I just feel like in terms of the deficit, it's like women are very emboldened. They're, they're too, I think, assertive. Always giving their opinions, always critiquing, always, you know, I think that they're very bold right now. And I think, and sarcastic, I think that's a big reason why they're not very attractive.

• 2:15:43Tucker Carlson?

  I get it. I, all I would say is that in a happy marriage, all of that goes away. There's no arguing about who does what. People fall seamlessly into the roles they were born into. They acknowledge those are not insecure about it at all. They express love in a whole bunch of different ways by serving each other. It's like super easy. And, and all of that, obnoxious and titled, you don't make enough money. All that crap just disappears. Anyway, that's been my experience. So last question, where is all of this going?

• 2:16:15Tucker Carlson?

  In this country? Like where are we in five years?

• 2:16:19Speaker 02

  Not anywhere good. I'm, I'm really concerned and I'm not one of these doomsday sayers. You know, there's a lot of people that forever, but you know, the sky's falling every day. But I really feel like, um, the, the things that concern me the most, it's the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Seemed like we crossed a Rubicon there.

• 2:16:39Tucker Carlson?

  I agree with that.

• 2:16:41Speaker 02

  Because he's just a conservative guy, relatively moderate, expressing his opinions. He's not the president, he's not a politician. And, and it wasn't just that he got shot. It was what happened afterward, which is that a hundred thousand liberals went on Tik Tok and celebrated. And that shows that how can you integrate or harmonize with people that hate you that much? They see some, you know, and, and I understand that liberals thought he was a jerk. Like maybe he was a little rude or something like that. And he really wasn't. I mean, he was pretty patient, as patient as they come.

• 2:17:16Tucker Carlson?

  I just tried to fill in for him last week and immediately snapped at some kid and threatened to beat him up and went crazy. And, and I had said a prayer for patience, by the way, and I still couldn't handle it. So, you know, Charlie Kirk was a remarkably even keeled, patient, decent man.

• 2:17:31Speaker 02

  Yes. And yeah, so whatever their perception of him was, to see him get his, his face blown up in front of everybody like that. And your first, the first reaction of someone in the crowd who is present, some guy with the beard jumps up and celebrates. Did you see this?

• 2:17:52Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 2:17:52Speaker 02

  Some liberal kid in the audience jumps up and says, all right.

• 2:17:56Tucker Carlson?

  I literally can't handle it. I'm so upset by it. I haven't looked at anything.

• 2:17:59Speaker 02

  It's disgusting. And you, I saw that and said, yeah, like, there's no putting the genie back in the lamp here. That was one. The other thing I'm really worried about is what's happening at these ICE detention centers, where it's happening not far from where I live in Broadview, Illinois, where they set up a ICE detention facility. And the administration is rounding these people up, which I support, but they're doing it in a very provocative way. They're broadcasting it. They're making hype edits on Twitter of like these raids on apartment complexes, which I think are very cool, but it's somewhat provocative. And Antifa showing up. In order to protect ICE, the administration's putting DHS. Well,

• 2:18:42Speaker 02

  now they're protesting the DHS presence and, and the administration of the governor of Illinois and the mayor of Chicago. Are telling Chicago police, "Don't help ICE." And they are encouraging the protesters. And what I see there is like a level of tension that just keeps increasing.

• 2:18:59Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 2:18:59Speaker 02

  And there's leadership. There's civilian leadership on both sides. Like the governor and mayor, who are Democrats, won't back down versus Republican president. There's a security, Division Two, the police versus ICE, the police versus DHS. There's a constitutional question about the federal supremacy, you know? And I see all the ingredients of like a low boil civil conflict, full blown civil war. And I'm not that guy, but I see all the ingredients there for that to happen. So I'm deeply concerned about where that will go.

• 2:19:34Tucker Carlson?

  How would you handle it if you were in charge? If you're the president, what do you do about that?

• 2:19:39Speaker 02

  I think, maybe this is controversial, but they have to crush the other side. They have to, because you can do one of two things. You cannot challenge the left and let them do their thing. Or you can utterly confront them and defeat them and remove hope from the equation. If you resist, you will be arrested, like we're just, this is an insurrection. There's 10 million people here illegally. We're getting them out. You're rioting, you're going to jail too. Like it has to be crushed. But if you do anything less than that, if you do in the middle, all you're doing is antagonizing and feeding the other side. And if they think there's a chance they can win, they will get bolder and stronger and they'll start to rally.

• 2:20:24Speaker 02

  And that's when it's sort of like, people think it's close or like it's contentious. That's when it breathes. That's when oxygen is fed to this kind of fire. So if I were Trump, I would say, screw 200 National Guard, like arrest the mayor of Chicago, like arrest the governor. Shut it down, like make it clear, like Washington, you know? Bring in the troops and say the federal government is supreme. The immigration law is the law of the land. If you're not on board with that, you're going to jail. If you attack ICE or box them in with your car, you're going to jail for a long time. Anything less than that, you might as well just not even bark up that tree at all.

• 2:21:05Tucker Carlson?

  Nick Fuentes, thank you very much.

• 2:21:08Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:21:08Tucker Carlson?

  It's nice to meet you.

• 2:21:09Speaker 02

  Likewise.

• 2:21:17Tucker Carlson?

  We've got a new website we hope you will visit. It's called newcommissionnow.com. And it refers to a new 9/11 commission. So we spent months putting together our 9/11 documentary series. And if there's one thing we learned, it's that in fact, there was foreknowledge of the attacks. People knew. The American public deserves to know. We're shocked, actually, to learn that, to have that confirmed. But it's true. The evidence is overwhelming. The CIA, for example, knew the hijackers were here in the United States. They knew they were planning an act of terror.

• 2:21:50Speaker 03

  In his passport is a visa to go to the United States for America.

• 2:21:54Tucker Carlson?

  A foreign national was caught celebrating as the World Trade Center fell and later said he was in New York, quote, "to document the event." I didn't know there would be an event to document in the first place because he had foreknowledge. And maybe most amazingly, somebody, an unknown investor, shorted American Airlines and United Airlines, the companies whose planes the attackers used on 9/11, as well as the banks that were inside the Twin Towers just before the attacks. They made money on the 9/11 attacks because they knew they were coming. Who did that? You have to look at the evidence. The US government learned the name of that investor, but never released it.

• 2:22:35Tucker Carlson?

  Maybe there's an instant explanation for all this, but there isn't, actually. And by the way, it doesn't matter whether there is or not. The public deserves to know what the hell that was. How did people know ahead of time? Why was no one ever punished for it? The 9/11 commission, the original one, was a fraud. It was fake. Its conclusions were written before the investigation. That's true, and it's outrageous. This country needs a new 9/11 commission, one that actually tells the truth and tries to get to the bottom of the story. We can't just move on like nothing happened.

• 2:23:08Speaker 03

  9/11 commission is a cover.

• 2:23:11Tucker Carlson?

  Something did happen. We need to force a new investigation into 9/11 almost 25 years later. Sorry, justice demands it. And if you want that, go to newcommissionnow.com to add your name to our petition. We're not getting paid for this. We're doing this because we really mean it. Newcommissionnow.com.