Who Is Nick Fuentes? | PBD Podcast | Ep. 654

Patrick Bet-David interviews Nick Fuentes, the "America First" commentator who rose from college activist to online conservative figure. They discuss his political journey, clashes with conservative institutions, deplatforming, immigration, and his views on Israel, past controversies, and reflections following Charlie Kirk’s memorial. ------- Ⓜ️ CONNECT WITH NICK FUENTES ON MINNECT: http://bit.ly/4ngmknl Ⓜ️ JOIN THE PBD PODCAST CIRCLES COMMUNITY: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4mAWQAP⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4mAWQAP 🍋 ZEST IT FORWARD: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4kJ71lc⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4kJ71lc 📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/41rtEV4⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/41rtEV4 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g57zR2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g57zR2 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ITUNES: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A 📱 CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC 👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7 📰 VTNEWS. AI: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3OExClZ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3OExClZ 🎓 VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw 📺 JOIN THE CHANNEL: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or 💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:26Speaker 01

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• 0:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Your opinion of me? I'm Middle Eastern, married to a white girl. Do you think it's better off for America to minimize more of me coming to America?

• 1:04Speaker 03

  America's no longer America. Mass migration is changing what America is. And I want to conserve what America historically has always been.

• 1:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, that's a little bit, you know.

• 1:15Patrick Bet-David?

  That's a little bit harsh.

• 1:16Speaker 03

  Well, I'm not in favor of interracial marriages. That's against my values. I want to have a white wife. I want to have white kids. That's important to me.

• 1:25Patrick Bet-David?

  That's kind of racist.

• 1:26Speaker 03

  I agree.

• 1:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:28Speaker 03

  But let's remember the context.

• 1:30Patrick Bet-David?

  How bad is the video? Is it appropriate to just show?

• 1:32Speaker 03

  You can pull it up, yeah.

• 1:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Rob, can you pull it up? I'm actually curious on how bad the video is.

• 1:36Speaker 03

  Funny search query. I'm not sorry because this is a political attack. This is how political control is maintained.

• 1:44Patrick Bet-David?

  So when you go a week ago and you're like,

• 1:49Patrick Bet-David?

  you don't need to do it, dropping the N-word. How is your approach going to change moving forward?

• 1:55Speaker 03

  I don't think there's much that needs to change.

• 1:57Patrick Bet-David?

  I've seen the tweets, I've seen the videos. I don't platform trolls. But how are you processing this?

• 2:00Speaker 03

  I'm going to tell you the truth. I thought there were things about the memorial that were distasteful. I did not like him when he was alive. I'll be honest with you.

• 2:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Listen, you're going to the dark side of where you're going right now. Is that kind of where you're going or not at all?

• 2:11Speaker 03

  I didn't even want to do the show at that time. I was looking for an off-ramp. At that point, they were trying to knock me out. It made me want to stay in the game.

• 2:22Patrick Bet-David?

  I got it. Okay.

• 2:28Patrick Bet-David?

  The obvious question is, why would you put Nick Fuentes on your podcast? Why would you do that? My lawyers, don't do it. You know what's a great thing? I don't have sponsorship to lose. I don't have to worry about an investor saying they're not in. No. And me, for my entire career, I'll talk to anybody. And the reason why I wanted to speak to him is because this interview happened the day after me leaving Charlie Kirk's memorial, which was the most magical revival I've been in my entire life. Charlie was 31. He's in his mid to late 20s. And I feel what we need today, more than anything else, is to continue talking to

• 3:12Patrick Bet-David?

  each other. And if we don't learn about each other, what are we gonna do? Hate, misinformed, agitate, divide, continue to call each other out and create this temperature to go higher and higher and higher? No. Guess what? You know what podcast I did with this guy? I don't know if there's a podcast that you'll learn how he became who he became. What caused him to go from being a pro Thomas Sowell guy, pro PragerU, to a girl at Daily Wire who he was hanging out with? I think they even liked each other at one point. I became a Jew, converted, and then did certain things and some retweets, some incidents with Ben, that the temperature elevated.

• 3:55Patrick Bet-David?

  One after another, and then in one video while he's at a university at this leadership institute, where the camera is kind of angled and this girl records him saying something about blacks, that goes viral. He gets blocked from all the conservative interviews. And at a young age, he goes from here to the entire, whole different level. And I asked him a couple of questions. Who are you more concerned about? Jews in America or Muslims? His answer's very interesting. I asked him, who's a bigger net positive? Jews or Muslims? You're gonna be surprised by the answer. It's a technical answer, but we had a very good conversation and that exchange. And then a lot of the stuff of where he's at right now, Charlie Kirk, how did Charlie Kirk inspire you? What did he inspire you?

• 4:39Patrick Bet-David?

  And he revealed something I've not heard him talk about before. But all in all, I actually think... Here's what's gonna be interesting. I actually think his audience is gonna like it. I think conservatives are gonna like it because you're finally getting to know who this guy is. I actually think, it's gonna sound weird. I think Jews and Israel's gonna like it. That's kinda crazy. Yes, I actually believe that. But having said that, I hope you enjoy getting to know this individual that is both loved by groypers and hated by many.

• 5:22Patrick Bet-David?

  And if you're like me, you're in the middle 20% that just doesn't have a clue who the guy is. I hope you get to know him better by the time this interview, this podcast is done with Nick Fuentes.

• 6:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so we're finally doing this. Yes, finally. A lot of people are like, "I don't think he's ever gonna do it. Have him on." You shouldn't have him on, lawyers. Never have him on. This is not good. You're gonna be tied in a group. You're in a good place. So that makes me wanna talk to the guy. But let me tell you, yesterday I'm at Charlie Kirk's memorial, obviously the late, great Charlie Kirk. I'm there, a couple comes up to me, okay? And I'm standing next to Adam, and Vinnie's there, and my two boys, Dylan and Tico are there. This couple comes, "Can I take a picture with you?" "Yes, of course. We'll take a picture." And then the guy gets a little too close to me, a little bit uncomfortable, but he didn't seem like a weird guy. "Hey, um, I don't know if you paid attention.

• 6:46Patrick Bet-David?

  He has stopped saying the N-word. Please have him on." I said, "Who are you talking about?" He says, "Nick, Nick, just stop saying the N-word." I said, "No, he said it a lot a week ago." He said, "No, he slowed down. He actually reacted." I said, "Well, we're gonna have a conversation." I said, "You're probably the first to know that we're having a conversation and then obviously you're here." Appreciate you for coming out and making the time.

• 7:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 7:07Patrick Bet-David?

  So Nick, I don't know much about you except for the clips I've seen, respectfully. To me, uh, uh, my, the way I've made my money over the last, you know, whatever, 25 years in insurance and finance was watching who has talent. And I would watch somebody, I would say, "This guy's got what it takes," right? First time I had Charlie Kirk on at 23 years old, I said, "There's something very special about this guy." At 23, I came to my insurance company, I said, "This guy's gonna be the president one day." Watch this guy closely. First time I watched, uh, Tucker. Unbelievable talent, when you watch him. Humor, sarcasm, intelligence, pushing back, subtle. He's making fun of you, you don't know it, the audience knows it, he knows the art. Candace, talent. Um, Dave Smith, talent.

• 7:52Patrick Bet-David?

  We used to have a comedian working here called Marcelo Hernandez, who is now on SNL, I don't know if you know who he is or not. Incredible, he used to produce Adam's show. And I said, "This guy's gonna do something special," now he's on SNL. Vinnie, talent. I see you, the way you communicate. Very, very talented, very capable, very talented. And I've expressed this before, on, uh, the show before. But I wanna know a little bit more about how you became who you are today. And then we'll cover a lot of different topics. So go to high school, 14 years old, who was Nick Fuentes?

• 8:23Speaker 03

  Well, at 14 years old, I was already very political. I've been political since, really, I was 12 years old.

• 8:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Why is that?

• 8:30Speaker 03

  Well, I, I just started to develop an interest in politics. There were a lot of political conversations happening, uh, due to the rise of Obama, actually, in 2008, 2012. And I wanted to know basically everything about it. You know, when you turn around that age, you start to ask questions about the world and how we all got here and, you know, about things that happened before. And so, the first thing I ever watched, actually, was Thomas Sowell on Uncommon Knowledge with, I think-

• 8:58Patrick Bet-David?

  The best, one of the best.

• 8:59Speaker 03

  Peter Robinson. Yeah, they're both excellent, from the Hoover Institute. And that was actually the first thing I ever watched, and I just devoured it. I devoured everything.

• 9:06Patrick Bet-David?

  At 12?

• 9:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, 12, 13, 14.

• 9:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Who introduced you to Thomas Sowell?

• 9:10Speaker 03

  I just Googled it. A buddy of mine in school was telling me about the private sector. I said, "What is the private sector? You know, what is the economy?" And so, I just Googled it on YouTube, and that was the first thing that came up. And I watched the whole thing, and it was just, I was enamored by it. And I told my mom, I said, "I want Free to Choose by Milton Friedman." That was the first political book I ever read. And one day, I came home from school, and it was there on my bed, and I read it.

• 9:34Patrick Bet-David?

  First book is Free to Choose?

• 9:35Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 9:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Capitalism, free-market capitalism, and he was, he was, uh... It's really him and Thomas Sowell. I think he came before Thomas did, right?

• 9:43Speaker 03

  He did, yes. Yeah, well, he was from the Chicago School. So, it was Friedman, Sowell, and all the others, and so, I read all that stuff in middle school and high school. And at that time, I was really a libertarian, because that's just what was out there at that time. That was during the Ron Paul Revolution.

• 9:59Patrick Bet-David?

  And the Fed.

• 10:00Speaker 03

  Right, and the Fed. And there was so much online, digital content, this is early 2010s, that was being put out by young libertarians. So, that's just what was out there and what was available, and so, I just, I worked through all of it. Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell, and read about all the Chicago School, even then, the Austrian School, the really more libertarian economic stuff. And in high school, I was in Model UN, Student Council, Speech Team. I was very active in high school, and, you know, one of those precocious, autodidact-type, uh, young guys, and, um...

• 10:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Were you like this? Were you this vocal?

• 10:37Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 10:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Were you this intense?

• 10:39Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 10:39Patrick Bet-David?

  So, did you get in trouble a lot? Did you get in a lot of fights? Did you get picked on? Did you have bullies?

• 10:44Speaker 03

  I was, I was very outspoken. I was very extroverted about politics. I was always getting in political debates in class and in Model UN, but I didn't really get in trouble as much. What's really funny, this might interest you, actually, and I've talked about this before, but when I was in Model UN, I was one of the best guys on the team. I would win first place every week, and because my, if you don't know Model United Nations, you go, you simulate the United Nations General Assembly or the different committees. And it's like role-play. It's like a role-play game, but for the United Nations. And anyway, so I was one of the better guys on the team. And my junior year of high school, I became the head of the team. I became the secretary general of the team.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  But I had a major falling out with the guy that ran the team. He was ethnically Arab, I think.

• 11:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 11:34Speaker 03

  Extremely pro-Palestine. And I, at that time, was very pro-Israel. I was on Prager University and Breitbart. And so I downloaded all the dogma from the conservative movement at that time. And so I remember, we were sitting in the study hall one day, and they had all the flags of the world hanging up on the ceiling. And I said, "Why do we have the Iranian flag hanging up?" I said, "They're the number-one state sponsor of terrorism in the world. It shouldn't be up." And he told me, "You gotta read 'The Israel Lobby' by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt." He said, "You gotta look at the other side." And we had this vicious back-and-forth about it. And that is kind of the only major problem I had with faculty over politics, ironically.

• 12:17Patrick Bet-David?

  So he was faculty?

• 12:18Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 12:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so how many years older was he from you?

• 12:21Speaker 03

  Oh, he must have been his 40s.

• 12:23Patrick Bet-David?

  And this school, walk me through the demo of the school. Is it a public school? Is it a private school?

• 12:28Speaker 03

  It was a pretty affluent, public school.

• 12:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 12:30Speaker 03

  Mostly white.

• 12:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 12:31Speaker 03

  Outside, in the suburbs of Chicago.

• 12:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Naperville with the...

• 12:36Speaker 03

  It was Lyons Township and Western Springs, LaGrange.

• 12:39Patrick Bet-David?

  So it's not like it's Chicago-Chicago. It's a good area of Chicago, mostly white. And would you say politically, center-left, don't-care, Republican? What would you say the demo was?

• 12:51Speaker 03

  I would say it's pretty center-left. It's very Catholic. Some Catholic, some Protestant. But what was interesting about it is very liberal, but not leftist. Not very progressive. You know, so even though we were in the middle of a very progressive revolution under Obama, I mean, these guys were all liberal, but they weren't communists. It wasn't like New York or Portland.

• 13:11Patrick Bet-David?

  So what year is this, when you're a junior in high school? This would make it what?

• 13:14Speaker 03

  2015.

• 13:15Patrick Bet-David?

  2015, okay. So this is... Has Trump yet announced anything?

• 13:20Speaker 03

  So he announced August 2015. So it was actually right around that time.

• 13:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it. Okay, so you're there, you're getting into these debates in junior year, and then Trump announces, and then what do you do?

• 13:30Speaker 03

  So after Trump announced, this is right around the time... So actually, he announced in June 2015. And so I was very political, obviously, super engaged with the election. And at that time, so this was going into my senior year of high school... I had a radio show on the high school radio station and a TV show on the high school TV station. I did both. And one of my first shows I've ever done in my whole life was talking about the election. And that was a very crowded primary. It was like 17 candidates. I don't know if you remember back then. It was Trump in this huge field.

• 14:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Everybody, yeah.

• 14:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was everybody. And so I went through all the candidates. And initially, I was very anti-Trump, because I was a libertarian. So I was in it for Rand Paul, and then Ted Cruz. And it wasn't until April or March 2016, about seven months in, to my senior year, that I really went in hard for Trump. And Trump, I would say, is the one who redpilled me, quote unquote.

• 14:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Out of all these guys, these are the guys we're looking at, right?

• 14:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 14:27Patrick Bet-David?

  That was, that was a Jeb Bush started with $140 million. He was supposed to win it. Carson had a little bit of momentum. Cruz was one of the guys that people thought could do something.

• 14:38Speaker 03

  Right.

• 14:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Nobody thought Trump, up until I think Ann Coulter's like, who do you think today's going to win? And she made the comment that I think it's going to be Trump on Bill Maher. Everybody starts laughing.

• 14:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 14:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so you're in this moment, Trump redpills you first.

• 14:49Speaker 03

  Yes. He redpills me on immigration, really. Because at that time, I am preoccupied with this notion of individualism. Very much like you. I mean, a lot of the stuff you say in your show, I agree with you 100%. I guess he reoriented my perspective about individualism. Because what I started to understand is that, you remember, in 2015, it felt like the left was unstoppable. It felt like Obama, and then Hillary Clinton, were going to lead this progressive revolution, and it was just going to get more left every day forever. More pro-woman, more pro-gay, more diverse. And at that time, what felt so suffocating was this kind of political chokehold the country was in. The media's left-wing, Hollywood's

• 15:32Speaker 03

  left-wing, the press is left-wing. And what woke me up about Trump is, one day I was watching the primaries, early primary elections, and Trump was winning all of them. One, he didn't win the Iowa caucus, but he won in New Hampshire, won in Nevada, won in... And I remember the media was beside themselves, calling it every day for him. And I said, the one thing that Trump has right, is he understands, in order to take power... Well, in order to do what you want to do, you gotta take power first. In order to take power, you have to engage the media. Because the media is really the enemy. So a very early kind of understanding of how politics actually works.

• 16:08Patrick Bet-David?

  And fake news, he hasn't even said fake news yet. So this is pretty him saying fake news.

• 16:11Speaker 03

  Exactly. But he would fight the moderators in the debates. Even Fox News, because Roger Ailes had it out for him, early on. And I said, "He's gonna fight the mainstream media. That's essential." Because if you can't fight the media, you can't win. If you don't win, you can't do what you want. And then I thought about immigration and how it's affecting the voting patterns. Because I looked at one meme in 2016. And it said, "This is what the 2012 election would look like if only white men voted. If only men voted." If only, I'm sure everybody's seen it. And what became clear is that if only non-white people are voting, they vote 90% left. Blacks voted 97% for Obama in 2008, in 2012. If immigration is making the country less white,

• 16:56Speaker 03

  and if non-white people only vote Democrat. Asians is like 75%, Hispanics at that time 70%, Blacks 90%. I said, "It's clear where the country's gonna go. What direction this is headed in." I said, "So..." And the reason this is happening is because these people aren't assimilating. So before we can even think about individualism, the Constitution, etc., we gotta take out the media. And by "take out," you know, what I mean by that is you gotta fight back. And two, you have to secure the border. Because if the Democrats bring in all these illegals and legal immigrants, they're gonna flip taxes, and that's the way it's gonna go. And that was kind of the first realization. That's what made me say, "I'm all in for Trump." Even though ideologically, I wasn't really with him just yet.

• 17:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Because you're a Libertarian at the time.

• 17:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 17:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Right. Okay, I'm following. So now you're all in for Trump. He's the closest thing to a Libertarian. I don't know, I don't think it was Joe Jorgensen, right? Who was a candidate at the time for the Libertarian? Right, so you're not gonna go Gary Johnson, right? Uh, I think he got, is he the one that didn't know the capital of a country? And I don't know what it was.

• 17:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, Aleppo.

• 17:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, that's what it was. And it's like, "Oh my God, this guy can't be in," and they moved on. That was an easy one for him. So you're in that moment, "I'm gonna go all Trump, what happens next?"

• 18:06Speaker 03

  So I go all Trump, and... I'm a big Trump guy. I get my MAGA hat and I'm all excited about it and I volunteer for the campaign and everything. And so he wins the primary in the spring of 2016. Convention happens, I think, July 2016. I enter college at Boston University in September 2016. And this is the first time I've lived outside Chicago. I've lived in the same place my whole life. And it's important to impress upon you and maybe everybody like where I grew up. It's like this pocket of America that never changed. It's a baseball town. Everybody's white. Everybody's obsessed with baseball. Everybody's Catholic. So growing

• 18:46Speaker 03

  up, I'm going to CCD, which is like catechism class for Catholics. Everybody loves baseball. There's an annual parade where you go and eat hot dogs and play baseball. So this is a place that is untouched by, like I said, even though they're liberal, they're not even really progressive. It's untouched by the progressive politics, by a lot of the diversity, even the crime. It's safe, white picket fences. Take a trip down to Western Springs, Illinois. I mean, you'll see what I mean. It's like the land that time forgot. I go to college in Boston, totally different story. Boston's obviously super diverse. It's a lot of young people because it's all schools, all universities, and they're all from Asia, all foreign students, and they're all Chinese, they're all from these Asian countries. And there's also, it's

• 19:29Speaker 03

  a little dangerous, there's a little criminal element, and everyone on the campuses, they're militant, left-wing. And that was kind of a culture shock. And I kind of realized in that moment, most of the country looks like this now, actually. New York, LA, Miami, the big cities, and most people live in the cities, they all look like this because of immigration, because of left-wing progressive politics. And I kind of said, in that moment, my slice of America that I grew up with is a dying breed. It's literally going extinct. And I like my upbringing. I love my upbringing. I wanna, if I have a family, I wanna raise my kids in a place like that. But in 50 years, will there be places like that?

• 20:11Speaker 03

  The country's gonna become majority-minority in the 2030s. So when I'm old and gray and I have grandkids, what is the country they're gonna look like?

• 20:19Patrick Bet-David?

  And you're questioning this. You're questioning, you're having this dialogue, you're asking yourself, "I'm concerned that I'm gonna lose the identity of what it means to be an American." Is it more that? Is it more Caucasian? Is it more white? What do you mean it's gonna lose its identity?

• 20:33Speaker 03

  It's all of that. It's all of that, that it's not, it's not gonna be white people. It's not gonna be Christian. It's not gonna be speaking English. It won't be safe. No baseball, no hot, like every, all these different layers of identity are kinda being blown up.

• 20:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Who are you sharing this concern with at the time? Are you talking to friends, mentor, peers, you know, relatives, parents? Who are you talking to about this?

• 20:54Speaker 03

  It's all my friends in college.

• 20:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so this is a BU, you're talking to them?

• 20:58Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 20:58Patrick Bet-David?

  And are they agreeing, disagreeing? What are they saying to you?

• 21:01Speaker 03

  Well, we all, we all basically agreed. So we all met at the, uh, there was a watch party for the first debate between Trump and Clinton, all three of us, four of us. We were the only Trump supporters on the whole campus. And we all met at this watch party.

• 21:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Is this the one that said you'd be in jail? No, that's the second one, right?

• 21:16Speaker 03

  Yes, that's the second one. So it was at the first one, we all met. And, uh, and we developed this kinda tight-knit friendship.

• 21:21Patrick Bet-David?

  What month is this? Is this September of, uh, 15?

• 21:24Speaker 03

  September 16.

• 21:26Patrick Bet-David?

  September 16th. Okay, got it, got it.

• 21:28Speaker 03

  Right. And, um, so, you know, we all get together and it was interesting at that time, and this was kind of like a cultural moment, is that, uh, remember that Trump, when he came around, there was just this explosion on the right wing. They called it the alternative right. That had a very different connotation in 2016 than it did in 17. Cause in 16 and even 2015, what it meant, at that, up to that point, the GOP and conservatism meant kind of like one thing. It meant like Rick Santorum, like cultural conservatism, traditional-

• 21:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Karl Rove.

• 22:00Speaker 03

  Right. All that kind of stuff. And Trump comes along and says, "Well, I'm kind of agnostic on healthcare." You know, "We just want to take care of everybody." He was more of a Pat Buchanan, Sam Francis-like nationalist. And so there was this explosion on 4chan and on Twitter of a lot of young, right-wing guys that were asking, "Well, what does it mean to be right-wing?" So there's guys like Stefan Molyneux, and Jared Taylor, and Steven Pinker, and Jordan Peterson, and Ben Shapiro. All these guys come into the fold, and it's much more aggressive, it's younger, it's more dynamic, it's a lot of new ideas, or maybe old ideas, presented in a new way. And so we were kind of holding like this salon, like this intellectual salon at the Tasty Burger by Fenway, talking about all these new people that are coming around.

• 22:44Speaker 03

  Richard Spencer, for that matter, Peterson, and ideas like race realism, like Western chauvinism, people like Gav McInnes. And we were all kind of developing our ideas and what we thought was right. And ironically, none of these guys were even white. One of them was Turkish, one of them was actually Assyrian. I know you're Assyrian. Who was that? He's an Assyrian guy from Australia. Yeah, some young man.

• 23:07Speaker 00

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• 23:32Speaker 01

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• 24:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Was he a Christian man, or no?

• 24:05Speaker 03

  He was Christian.

• 24:07Patrick Bet-David?

  A Syrian man from Australia?

• 24:09Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Interesting.

• 24:10Speaker 03

  And one of them was Jewish even. And so, he was Russian Jewish. And a lot of people say about me, I mean, I'm an American ethnic, I'm not English or German.

• 24:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Fuentes, what's Fuentes?

• 24:19Speaker 03

  Mexican.

• 24:20Patrick Bet-David?

  And who's, your dad's Mexican?

• 24:21Speaker 03

  My father's half Mexican, yes.

• 24:23Patrick Bet-David?

  What's his other half?

• 24:24Speaker 03

  Irish.

• 24:24Patrick Bet-David?

  And then mom?

• 24:25Speaker 03

  She's all Italian.

• 24:26Patrick Bet-David?

  All Italian?

• 24:27Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Parents, I've, I've, I've, uh, uh, when we're talking to the crew, they're telling me that mom had some influence politically. Is it mom, dad had more influence politically, or dad?

• 24:35Speaker 03

  I really wasn't too influenced in that way. Really more by my grandmother, by my mom's mother. She was very conservative.

• 24:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Who, who did she believe in? Who was her heroes? She would say, Nick, you gotta follow this guy. Nick, you gotta read this book. Nick, you gotta watch this. Who would she talk about?

• 24:51Speaker 03

  She loved Mark Levin.

• 24:55Patrick Bet-David?

  I got it, okay. So, super safe, conservative, pro-Israel, this is who your grandmother was? Okay. So now, let's fast forward to where you're at with, uh, uh, Trump. He's there, you're on B U, you're talking to these guys, Jordan Peterson, Gavin Mcginnis, a Syrian guy from Australia. Even one guy that's Turkish, Jewish, you're talking to all these guys. What is that looking like? What's happening with you at that time?

• 25:19Speaker 03

  So, we're debating, we're really kinda getting down into what it means to be right-wing. Cause like I said, I'm having this evolution, I was libertarian from like 12 to 17. Trump kind of changed the way I think about things. Then I'm in college and I'm meeting these people, and I'm on Twitter, I'm looking at all these new intellectual figures. And, and we're debating, for example, the idea of race. Immigration is the issue of 2016. We're talking about illegal immigration, legal immigration. And we're talking about the, really the big topic is the demographic change. America was a white country, it's becoming a non-white country through immigration. And we're talking about the impact that that's gonna have. What, what does it really mean for us? Yes, they're gonna vote Democrat, probably. Will they vote Democrat forever?

• 26:04Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, they're not quite like us. Can they ever be like us? What does it mean to be white versus black? Or white versus any other race for that matter? And we kinda get into the idea, I, I guess maybe the big idea is the politics of identity. That politics maybe is less about, whereas libertarians are obsessed with individualism, which is an abstract concept, the individual as relates to the state. This is abstract. We're now talking about the politics of identity, which is concrete, which is particular. Not general, not abstract, but concrete in particular. You have white people and black people. They come from specific places and they bring with them their genetics, they bring with them their culture, their way of doing things.

• 26:48Speaker 03

  And we're saying we less believe in conservatism than we believe in America specifically. And that was kind of, I guess, the big pivot I made. And that's why I started my show, which was called "America First," which was this nationalistic show, as opposed to libertarian or conservative.

• 27:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so you start your show, "America First," you're pro-Trump, you're supportive of Trump, you're going through what you're going through. Give me a couple inflection points where you start kind of flipping and you're no longer pro-Israel. What were some of those events? Was it a book? Was it a conversation? Was it things you studied? What was that like?

• 27:26Speaker 03

  Well, the biggest thing is that I met this girl named Cassie Dillon. She was a fellow at Daily Wire. She now goes by Cassie Akiva. So she was in school around the same time. She was in Western Massachusetts studying. And we met because we ran in the same college Republican circles. And she's the one that got me the show at RSBN, Right Side Broadcasting Network. Yes, that's her.

• 27:46Patrick Bet-David?

  So she's still with Daily Wire?

• 27:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, she was there, she left, and then she came back. And so, you know, I met her, and at that time, she was a Christian. She converted to Judaism. She married a Jewish guy and converted. When I met her, she was a Christian, or she had been raised Christian. And we became very good friends. You know, we went to the Christmas party and we hung out, and I went on her show, and she got me my show.

• 28:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Nothing like attractiveness, just a friendship?

• 28:12Speaker 03

  It might have been going in that direction, but no, nothing like that materialized. So, yeah, we were just friends. And I started to notice something was up, because Trump's doctrine was "America First." And that was so attractive to me. He said, "We will no longer be misled by the siren song of globalism. It's going to be Americanism, not globalism." And that really sunk into me. And I'll never forget, this was in December 2016. This is what did it for me. And I wrote an article about it on my blog. I had a blog at that time. And I noticed that Obama, who was still the president during the lame duck period, he told our ambassador to the United Nations not to veto a resolution condemning the West Bank settlements. So there's a resolution saying Israel settlements in the West Bank are illegal.

• 28:57Speaker 03

  Normally, the United States vetoes that on behalf of Israel to protect them. But Obama instructed our ambassador to abstain. And so the resolution went through. And everybody on the right wing said Obama's an anti-Semite. He hates Jews because he did that. And I said, wait a second. I went through and I did the research. And I said, ever since 1967, during the Six-Day War, when Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip, it has been the official US policy that we do not support the civilian settlements. That's technically illegal under international law. I said, so all Obama did was really uphold the same policy that every president did, Republican and Democrat, yet they're calling him a Jew hater. I said, I don't think Obama hates Jews.

• 29:42Speaker 03

  Obama's supported by the Jewish left. People like Saul Alinsky mentored him or influenced him. So I don't think he hates Jews. I think that he's just carrying out our policy. And so I said, how is that any different than when, let's say, a conservative critiques BLM? They get called a racist. You critique feminism, you get called a sexist.

• 30:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Where were you working at that time? Were you working anywhere? You were independent.

• 30:04Speaker 03

  I was independent.

• 30:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so you're not with anybody while you're writing this?

• 30:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 30:07Patrick Bet-David?

  So you're free to write and say whatever you want? Okay, continue.

• 30:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I was just on my own blog. So I wrote that out. I said, this is hypocritical. I said, and this is something that crops up over and over, is this double standard when it comes to anti-Semitism, when it comes to Israel. And I called this out. And Cassie Dillon, who was my friend, I would raise this issue with her. And I would criticize Ben Shapiro very harshly. He was very anti-Trump at that time. And I said, I think Ben Shapiro is Israel first. And I think that when Trump says in his inaugural, it's America first, why is it that Israel gets all this foreign aid? They're the number one recipient for 50 years. They're not a poor country. Why is it that much largess? And so I would press her on this and other related questions.

• 30:50Speaker 03

  And eventually, she threw arms up in, I think it was March 2017. And she said, "We are no longer in the same movement." She said, "You are anti-Israel. The way you're going about this is anti-Semitic."

• 31:02Patrick Bet-David?

  This is Casey.

• 31:03Speaker 03

  This is, yeah, Cassie Dillon.

• 31:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Cassie Dillon.

• 31:05Speaker 03

  She goes, "You are, you're attacking Shapiro and in an anti-Semitic way. I don't like your tone." She said, "And I really want nothing to do with you anymore." And so she blocked me on Twitter and my whole friend group, who was with Daily Wire, Elliot Hamilton, Aaron Bandler, all these other writers of Daily Wire, they all blocked me. They would not talk to me. And then...

• 31:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Now, you guys all know each other. You've hung out on your friends.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 31:29Patrick Bet-David?

  How, in what context do you guys hang out? Because you're not with Daily Wire.

• 31:33Speaker 03

  Right. So, we would hang out at, um, we hung out at the Christmas party for the Massachusetts College Republicans that she hosted.

• 31:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 31:42Speaker 03

  Uh, I did her show a couple of times.

• 31:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Nothing real, oh, so you did do her show on Daily Wire?

• 31:47Speaker 03

  Uh, not on Daily Wire, on RSN.

• 31:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, got it. Okay.

• 31:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so...

• 31:51Patrick Bet-David?

  So, they all block you. They want to have nothing to do with you at the time.

• 31:54Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:54Patrick Bet-David?

  We're not on the same page. We're going a different direction. Has she yet converted to Judaism or not yet? She's still a Christian at the time.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  She was, she had begun the conversion at that point.

• 32:03Patrick Bet-David?

  And were you seeing the evolution of that happening or no?

• 32:06Speaker 03

  I was, yes.

• 32:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Was she seeing somebody while you guys were talking or no?

• 32:09Speaker 03

  I don't believe she was.

• 32:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 32:11Speaker 03

  But she had been to Israel a bunch of times.

• 32:12Patrick Bet-David?

  So, why was she wanting to convert? Why was she going through that process? What was her reasoning? Did she tell you?

• 32:18Speaker 03

  No, we never discussed it on an intimate level.

• 32:20Patrick Bet-David?

  So, till today, you guys have never cleared it up why she became...

• 32:23Speaker 03

  Never, no.

• 32:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, maybe she can send you an email because I want to know. I'm curious to know why that happened.

• 32:27Speaker 03

  I do, yeah.

• 32:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I'd want to know why that happened. Okay, so, uh, okay, so now when that happens, uh, you're on August 18th. When's your birthday?

• 32:36Speaker 03

  August 18th.

• 32:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. So, what, what's the first emotion you're getting? You're by yourself. She tells you this. Everybody gets blocked. What is it? Is it anger? Is it resentment? Is it, "I'm going to get them"? Is it vengeance? What's the first emotion you're feeling?

• 32:52Speaker 03

  I was stunned. I was honestly just shocked because... You know, the idea on the right wing is we're the marketplace of ideas. And so, nothing's off limits and you're supposed to bring your best ideas and you debate them out. That's the whole program. And so, to get such a cold and frosty response, it was actually a little disturbing. Because it's like, you know, I slept over at her sister's apartment. I went to her Christmas party. We hung out. We disagree on this issue, which by the way, isn't even an American issue. It's not like we had a falling out because I became some communist or anything to do with America. It's because I didn't support a foreign country. And I said, you know, even if we disagree on the issue, we can't even talk to each other or be friends personally? Forget about even professionally working together.

• 33:37Speaker 03

  I was stunned at how she turned into like, there was like this transformation. And, and then I got angry. And I would talk about this on my show. I would, I would kind of go on the show and it, it made me lean into the issue. Because I said, clearly, something is here. Like, it's being treated differently than other issues.

• 33:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that, would you say, at that time, you're how old? 19 years old-ish?

• 34:00Speaker 03

  I was 18.

• 34:01Patrick Bet-David?

  18 years old, okay. Up until that time, have you ever been offended the way you were offended by Cassie? At that level, that kind of a pain, that kind of a...

• 34:13Speaker 03

  I don't think so, no.

• 34:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so, so that's the first moment where like, what do you mean? I'm just being reasonable, I'm just questioning things. What's wrong with that? Why do you not want to have a relationship? Because, so that's the feeling you have at the time?

• 34:22Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 34:23Patrick Bet-David?

  So, you're going in on it, you're, you're getting stronger and more vocal. Who are you, in your mind, are you saying this is because Ben's in his, Ben's in her ear? Who, who in your mind at 18 years old are you saying this is why she flipped? Who are you thinking about?

• 34:36Speaker 03

  I don't think I was thinking about it in that way. I didn't, I didn't even really have a concept of in what way they were organized. And by that, I mean the pro-Israel lobby or influence operation. I had no mental model of what that looked like. So, to me, it just came across as group think. To me, it came across as that's a dogmatic... plank of conservatism and and I didn't really see it as maybe proceeding from a higher level or anything like that.

• 35:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it so but but are you are you at the time um are you calling on us saying why did this happen what was this all about you know are you asking your peers why would you why are they not talking to me it was there a so from that moment to you having some sort of animosity or for whatever word you want to use animosity or frustration towards Ben what is the timeline from that moment 18 to frustration and animosity towards Ben?

• 35:30Speaker 03

  Well, I had already had animosity towards him.

• 35:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Why is that?

• 35:34Speaker 03

  So in in December, some months before, I put out a tweet on Twitter and I had about a thousand followers on Twitter a thousand think of that's not a big account and I tweeted I said if you put China over America you should go to China if you put Mexico over America you should go to Mexico you see where this is going I said if you put Israel over America you should go live in Israel Shapiro quote tweeted that and said accusing Jews of dual loyalty is the surest sign that you're an anti Semite.

• 36:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Had a thousand followers? Why would he retweet that?

• 36:08Speaker 03

  Someone must have sent it to him.

• 36:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Does he know anything about you at the time like are you a formidable name in a circle that he would know about you?

• 36:15Speaker 03

  He had been tipped off about me because Cassie Dillon had filmed this debate I did on campus she livestreamed it on Twitter and he saw it and she texted him and said you gotta take this guy under your wing he's unbelievable he's the next big thing he's little Trumpy she goes because they hated Trump at that time.

• 36:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Who was the candidate I know there were DeSantis 2020 uh but who were they 2024 but who were they during that time?

• 36:41Speaker 03

  In 16 they were for Rubio Cruz.

• 36:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh Cruz Cruz was back at that time I remember that okay so she says you gotta go because he's a little bit Trumpy and then what's his response to her?

• 36:51Speaker 03

  He said I'll take a look at him I'll take a look.

• 36:53Patrick Bet-David?

  And she told you that so she said to you I told Ben he should and he said he'll take a look at you?

• 36:58Speaker 03

  She sent me the screenshot yeah.

• 36:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh wow okay so now this is starting to make sense so at this point while you're going through this you when you when you put that tweet out were you directing it towards him or not at all was a general blanket statement?

• 37:11Speaker 03

  It was a blanket statement.

• 37:12Patrick Bet-David?

  So it was nothing like a little bit 10% was towards Ben?

• 37:14Speaker 03

  I didn't tag him or anything I mean.

• 37:16Patrick Bet-David?

  I know but were you like saying this is towards him because if you're saying you know the feeling when did you first get a feeling that Ben is Israel first?

• 37:24Speaker 03

  It was, you know, it was right around the time that I realized that there was a lot of Israel first.

• 37:28Patrick Bet-David?

  So it's just before December of, uh, what would it be, uh, 16?

• 37:32Speaker 03

  It was around that time, right around that time.

• 37:34Patrick Bet-David?

  So you're kind of going through this process where you're like, I think Ben is Israel first. I don't know why he's not supporting Trump and he's going more Ted. And maybe Ted would be more pro-Israel. Even we saw the conversation with Ted and, and, uh, on, what do you call it? Tucker a couple of months, which I thought it was a great show on both ends. I, I, I actually liked watching it. I think it was good for the viewership. So you're talking to her. Uh, what is your goal in mind with her? Do you have any goal in mind? Like, do you want her to convert to your way of thinking? Are you trying to kind of tell her, man, you listen, you're going to the dark side of where you're going right now? Is that kind of where you're going or not at all?

• 38:12Speaker 03

  I was just, um, at that point, I wasn't even sure that I was right about any of it. I was, I was earnestly asking.

• 38:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it. Okay.

• 38:19Speaker 03

  And saying why, like when I said, why do we give Israel this much money? At that time, that was not a rhetorical question. Cause now it sort of is. When we say, why does Israel get more money? It's sort of rhetorical begging the question because they have this extraordinary influence. At that time, I was earnestly wondering, is there a reason? Is there a justified, good reason? That there is this special relationship between the countries?

• 38:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Yep.

• 38:42Speaker 03

  Because that is what she believed and, you know, they would give these answers, but I would debate. I would say, well, I, here's why that doesn't stand up. Here's why that doesn't make sense. And, uh, and they became frustrated that I wouldn't let that go.

• 38:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. So Ben retweets a guy's tweet with only a thousand followers. But he knows about you because Cassie already told him that you should take this guy under your wings and he could be somebody. Is Ben married at the time?

• 39:11Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 39:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you see if, was Ben married in December of 20, uh, 16, right? December 2016? Is Ben married in 2016? So, okay. So, so he's already married. So, okay. So he's already married. He's got his family. He's doing his thing. This happens. She steps away. You can't believe it. So that relationship is gone. Do you all of a sudden just go, boom, double down on it? On, uh, uh, uh, you know, points against Israel? Is that kind of where it goes? Or are you still subtle about it?

• 39:46Speaker 03

  At that point, I was still somewhat subtle about it, at least publicly.

• 39:50Patrick Bet-David?

  When, when, when did you go? Full on, because if I'm not mistaken, I mean, you saw like the uh, uh, the arguments against Israel happened a lot in the last since October 7th, right? Charlie Crook was sitting right here where you're sitting at in our other building, but in that seat. And it was three days or four days after October 7th. I think we were the first podcast he did where he actually questioned. How is it? He asked very fair questions. We're like, that's actually a very good question. How do you say you have the best intel? Yet you're able to get them to attack you. You can't have one or the other, right? So innocent questions people are asking. I'm not speculating. I'm not saying anything. All I'm saying is it's a good question for us to ask. So it wasn't like he was being anti-Semitic. He's purely asking a question, right?

• 40:34Patrick Bet-David?

  When did you go to that level?

• 40:37Speaker 03

  To the level of asking questions or beyond that?

• 40:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Beyond that.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  Beyond that, I would say would have to be later that year. So later in the spring or summer of that year.

• 40:45Patrick Bet-David?

  That year is, uh, uh,

• 40:46Speaker 03

  2017.

• 40:47Patrick Bet-David?

  2017. Okay. So why 2017?

• 40:50Speaker 03

  Uh, well, like I said, I, I had been on this journey when I got into college and started asking these questions. And then I encountered this very political response, which is to say that they started to treat me as an adversary politically, instead of like an interlocutor, instead of like I was debating them about this. And you know, the next step in that, of course, is that here's the best part. They didn't leave me alone. It's not like they said, we can't be friends. You do your thing. We do our thing. I got a call a couple of weeks after the fact from my boss at RSBN. So I was doing the show, America First on YouTube. Uh, this is a small company at this time run by Jacob and Joe Seals. They founded it. I get a call from Joe Seals who runs the company and he says,

• 41:32Speaker 03

  what's going on with you and Cassie? I said, well, we had this falling out, you know, she told me she doesn't want to be my friend anymore.

• 41:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Is Cassie a big name that people know who she is or?

• 41:42Speaker 03

  She was a rising star. She wasn't big at that time. She had 20,000 followers. Um, so she wasn't anybody, but he calls me up and says, the reason I'm asking is because she has been calling me every day for the past two weeks complaining about you. And saying, did you see what he said on his show? That's so racist. Did you see what he said on his show? Asking to pull my show off the air.

• 42:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  And then it was a couple of months later that the first hit piece ever was written about me by Media Matters. And I strongly believe, and I believe there was evidence for this at one point, that she sent in a clip from my show to Media Matters for America, left-wing organization.

• 42:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Huh. So, so what is the worst thing you've said? At that time, what is the worst thing you've said? Have you said anything? You've said some crazy things. I mean, I've read some of the stuff that you said. Half the time, I don't know if you're doing it because you're trying to get under people's skin if you fully believe it, or you're trolling. I don't know. Could be any of those things. Only you know what you're doing at that time, when you're making certain comments. But what is the most vile, extreme thing that some people may say you've said up until that point that's causing Cassie to message Media Matters and others saying, "You have to see what this guy's saying"?

• 42:51Speaker 03

  Up to that point, and this was the subject of the article, I was talking about the Muslim ban. And I said, "The Trump Muslim ban, the travel ban." I said, "The First Amendment does not apply to radical Muslims." I said, "You don't have a First Amendment right to preach Wahhabist, Salafist ideology," which is, that's the theology of ISIS.

• 43:11Patrick Bet-David?

  So you're defending Trump?

• 43:13Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 43:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. That's the worst thing you've said?

• 43:17Speaker 03

  That was the worst, that was the subject of the article. That was the worst thing I said.

• 43:19Patrick Bet-David?

  So you've not said, so why would she be against that, though?

• 43:22Speaker 03

  She was in favor of that.

• 43:24Patrick Bet-David?

  So then what is she forwarding to Media Matters for them to write?

• 43:27Speaker 03

  Because she knew that, because it's a left-wing organization, that they would use that to try to get me canceled or banned.

• 43:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. And you know this for a fact that she emailed it? I don't want to put anything, you know for a fact that she's the one that reached out to Media Matters?

• 43:42Speaker 03

  I heard it secondhand, so I don't know it absolutely.

• 43:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. So we don't know for a fact. We're just saying you're speculating. She may have done that, but you know that the other person that called you saying, "For the last two weeks," you know that for a fact.

• 43:51Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 43:52Patrick Bet-David?

  That's firsthand.

• 43:53Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 43:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, fair enough. So, so this happens, this comes back to you. This time around, are you going, if you went from zero to 20, are you going 20 to 80, or are you going 20 to 50 now?

• 44:04Speaker 03

  I would say I was going 20 to 50.

• 44:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 44:07Speaker 03

  At that point.

• 44:08Patrick Bet-David?

  So what, what's the next move you're making when you start hearing this?

• 44:11Speaker 03

  Well, when this stuff started to happen, I actually was almost gonna get fired. They almost fired me for that hit piece.

• 44:18Patrick Bet-David?

  From the artist?

• 44:19Speaker 03

  From RSBM.

• 44:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, got it.

• 44:20Speaker 03

  And the funny thing is, I didn't even want to do the show at that time. I was looking for an off-ramp. I didn't want to do the show. I wanted to kinda move on because I didn't get a lot of viewership.

• 44:32Speaker 03

  You know, but at that point, they were trying to knock me out. So it wanted me to, it made me want to stay in the game.

• 44:38Patrick Bet-David?

  This guy that called you Nick, who was your boss, the RSBM guy, is he a good guy in your eyes?

• 44:42Speaker 03

  He's a good guy.

• 44:43Patrick Bet-David?

  So you have a relationship with him till today, or you guys don't talk, but you're saying he's a good guy?

• 44:46Speaker 03

  Haven't talked to him, but he's a good guy.

• 44:47Patrick Bet-David?

  But he's a good guy. Okay, so this is not a bad guy. This is a level-headed guy. Okay. So now you're sitting there, they're thinking about getting rid of you. You're not getting a lot of eyeballs with their show, the platform that they have. It's not performing as well as you think it was. What happens next?

• 45:01Speaker 03

  So, they take the show off the air around May 2017. Then they say, "Well, our fans, they have like a very small loyal group of followers on their YouTube channel." They said, "The fans are demanding we bring your show back." They said, "We'll make it work for you. You could do it three days a week instead of five, etc." I said, "All right." I said, "I'll come back." So I did a show in May 29th. That was my comeback show. What happens later, the next kinda big shoe to drop, a lot of people would think it's Charlottesville. Because I did wind up in Charlottesville in August of 17, later that, in the summer.

• 45:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Yep.

• 45:36Speaker 03

  But what a lot of people don't know is that there was a lot of stuff that happened before then. Which is that I go to the Leadership Institute for a job training. Leadership Institute, I don't know if you're familiar.

• 45:45Patrick Bet-David?

  No, I'm not.

• 45:46Speaker 03

  So they're a think tank in DC.

• 45:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Conservative or not?

• 45:50Speaker 03

  Very conservative. Morton Blackwell's the founder.

• 45:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 45:53Speaker 03

  And they create all these conservative activists that go on campus, and they create campus organizations. So many Leadership Institute people will get training from that group, and then they go and start a College Republican chapter, a Turning Point chapter.

• 46:07Patrick Bet-David?

  So who would be comparable of a Leadership Institute today? Would TPUSA be a competitor of theirs, or no?

• 46:14Speaker 03

  They work together.

• 46:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Hillsdale, are they?

• 46:17Speaker 03

  They're very similar to Turning Point.

• 46:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, got it. Got it. Okay. So you're going there, and alumni includes folks like James O'Keefe, Mike Pence, Mitch McConnell. It's okay. Conservatives that go under, James O'Keefe. So it's not like it's just people that are, maybe some would call rhinos. James O'Keefe is somebody that's, he's pushed against the envelope many times. So you're there, you're thinking about going to that place. What happens next?

• 46:41Speaker 03

  So I go there for a job training, and I'm thinking about dropping out of college and working for Leadership Institute. I go there for a job training. It's about two weeks. And it's in DC, and you stay there in like a bunk, dormitory-style living. And for two weeks, it's sort of this like boot camp. And they try to see what you're made of. It's a training to see if you're gonna be a field representative, where you go across the country for three months and set up these campus conservative chapters. And so I go there, and the first day that I'm there, they have everybody go up and down and introduce themselves. And they say, "Tell us your name, where you're from, and why you're a conservative." First day of a two-week training.

• 47:21Speaker 03

  And they call on me, and I say, "I'm Nick Fuentes. I said, 'And I'm a conservative because our country is becoming unrecognizable.'" I said, "You know, France is no longer France. Paris is no longer Paris. America's no longer America. Mass migration is changing what America is." I said, "And I want to conserve what America historically has always been." Now, the first day that I say that, it turns out the instructor is a Lebanese immigrant. She hates the statement. She takes my application and throws it in the garbage. But she doesn't tell me that. So I'm there for the whole two weeks, but I'm already disqualified.

• 47:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Christian, Jewish, Muslim, what it, she's a Christian?

• 47:58Speaker 03

  I assume she was Christian.

• 47:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Lebanese immigrant. Okay. You remember that person's name, or?

• 48:02Speaker 03

  I don't remember her name.

• 48:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. But how do you know she did that?

• 48:04Speaker 03

  Because I had a friend that worked the training. He was Polish Catholic, very hard right, and he told me. That's exactly what happened.

• 48:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, do you know why?

• 48:13Speaker 03

  Why she canceled? Because she took offense that I said something against immigration. Hi, I'm Nick Fuentes. If you wanna text me, or call me, or ask me a question, you can find me on Minect.

• 48:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so now we're going to comments you made about immigration, which is more nationalism, pro-America, you know, I want to protect it, I don't want America to be a majority-minority by 2030s, I want us to keep our identity that we have, okay. So she's offended by that, so now you can't go here.

• 48:42Speaker 03

  Well, and, well, it gets better, so, that's day number one. Why are you a conservative? Because immigration's changing the country, she hates it, disqualifies me, now, I'm still there for two weeks, trying to get a job that I'm never gonna get, because I'm already, she already threw my application away. Well, the final day, this is the best part, final day of the training, we all, all the applicants had become kind of like a tight-knit group, we're all friends, we're, we're literally living together, so we're sleeping in the same dormitory, we're doing these 10-hour job trainings every day, it's the last day, we already found out who's gonna get the job and who isn't, I know I'm not getting the job, and so it's like 3 a.m., our last day, we're all in the common area, just hanging out, late at night, we're talking about politics,

• 49:26Speaker 03

  and, at that point, they realized I was a pretty far-right guy, I was maybe more far-right than anybody there, and we're all talking about politics, and it comes up, we're talking about interracial relationships and marriage, and I said, "Well, I'm not in favor of interracial marriages, that's against my values, I want to have a white wife, I want to have white kids, that's important to me." Now, there is a girl who is in the group, her name is Emily Faulkner, now she's like a big pro-life activist, she's married, but at that time, she was in this little group, she pulls out her phone, and she starts secretly recording me, she doesn't say anything, but she pulls out her phone, hits record, and she says, "So wait a second," she goes, "You're saying that if I have sex with a black person, that's the same as having sex with a dog?"

• 50:11Speaker 03

  I said, "No, I'm not saying that," I said, "But I think race mixing's immoral," I said, "I think they'd both be immoral." She takes that clip, along with clips of other things I said, she sends it to Cassie Dillon, because she knew and apparently was friends with Cassie, unbeknownst to me, Cassie Dillon sends it to a group called Reagan Battalion, and they post that all over Twitter, and it blows up on Twitter, and now I am like officially being canceled, because of this secret recording taken at this Leadership Institute job training.

• 50:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Is it live? Is the video public to see?

• 50:41Speaker 03

  It is.

• 50:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Is it, is it, how bad is the video? Is it appropriate to just show?

• 50:44Speaker 03

  You can pull it up, yeah.

• 50:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Rob, can you pull it up? I'm actually curious on how bad the video is. It's on YouTube, which, what should he put?

• 50:50Speaker 03

  Um, I don't know, if you pull it up on...

• 50:55Speaker 03

  Funny search query.

• 50:57Patrick Bet-David?

  That's not it, so.

• 50:58Speaker 03

  I don't know where you could find it.

• 50:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Rob, you look forward, we'll continue conversation if you, if you find it, we'll come back to you. Okay, so she sends it, the Reagan Battalion posted all over X. At this point, if you had a thousand followers, when Ben retweeted you, where are you at now when this happens?

• 51:14Speaker 03

  So I must have been at maybe three, four thousand followers.

• 51:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so you're still not somebody that has been, you know, you got a hundred thousand followers, you're not at that level yet.

• 51:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 51:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so it's interesting that you're getting under so many people's skin, even though you're not yet that influential. You may be amongst your circle, because people probably know you're gonna be somebody, you're gonna be a player, but in the public eye, they don't know you. So they're trying to defame you early on. Is that, is that a pretty good description?

• 51:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, they were trying to throttle me.

• 51:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so, okay, so that happens, Amy Faulkner sends this to Cassie. Cassie then sends it to Reagan Battalion. Reagan Battalion posted, and now you're saying you're being canceled. Define canceled.

• 51:56Speaker 03

  So I'm, I'm being blacklisted from everything in the conservative movement. From CPAC, from Turning Point, I, this is when my name is getting the scarlet letter. I'm officially being kind of kicked out, because they're saying, you know, that none of these people liked me, and they were all attacking me on Twitter constantly, but this was the moment when they said, we got him, because this is how this worked back then. Now, obviously, everything goes on Twitter, and everybody's controversial, but back then, you had a clip like that, which was perceived as legitimately racist or anti-Semitic, and you're kind of done for, and that's what they did to me.

• 52:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Have you yet, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Have you yet walked up to Ben with his kid crossing the streets with his family?

• 52:39Speaker 03

  No, that was years later.

• 52:40Patrick Bet-David?

  That was years later. Okay, so this is good. Let's keep going with the sequencing.

• 52:43Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 52:44Patrick Bet-David?

  So that happens, if you went from 10 to 20, when she said, I'm becoming, I'm blocking you and a couple of the people that Daily Wire did, then you go to 20 to 50, when you find out about the media matters and the messages being sent out to other places to censor you, claims, but you know the other guy who's being called, you saying this girl keeps calling me, telling me what you said to cancel you last two weeks? That you know for a fact. Then this happens here with Leadership Institute, then the Amy Faulkner situation, video going to Reagan Battalion. Where do you go from here? If it goes 10 to 20, 20 to 50, where are you going?

• 53:15Speaker 03

  I'm 50 to 80.

• 53:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so now it's like, this is when you're born. And how old are you at this time?

• 53:20Speaker 03

  Uh, just about to turn 19.

• 53:22Patrick Bet-David?

  So you're still 18 and this is what's happening to you?

• 53:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 53:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it. So what do you do next?

• 53:28Speaker 03

  So, I have to defend myself. This, this video's going viral and every, and Ben Shapiro retweeted it by the way. Ben Shapiro quote tweeted that Reagan battalion video-

• 53:38Patrick Bet-David?

  100% are you positive?

• 53:39Speaker 03

  100%.

• 53:40Patrick Bet-David?

  And what did he say?

• 53:41Speaker 03

  This is very concerning.

• 53:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that the video Rob? Yes sir. Can I see it please?

• 53:47Speaker 04

  Hurt in your daily like existence by Jews.

• 53:49Speaker 03

  I told you yes, absolutely. He, he laughed at it like- How so? Can you-

• 53:55Speaker 04

  What the- Would you say that me having sex with my dog is the same thing as me having sex with a black man?

• 54:00Speaker 03

  No. But they're both, they would both be degenerate.

• 54:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh!

• 54:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Well that's a little bit, you know. That's a little bit harsh.

• 54:12Speaker 03

  Well-

• 54:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Could be seen as harsh, could be seen as disrespectful. If I was an African American, I would be very annoyed, upset, frustrated, angry with you, and somebody could say that is racist. And, and the average person, and I'm just talking to you, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to be really hearing you out, I'm, I don't have any gotcha stuff for you here. It's gonna be a very easy interview as we're going through.

• 54:42Patrick Bet-David?

  That's kinda racist.

• 54:43Speaker 03

  I agree.

• 54:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 54:44Speaker 03

  But, let, let's remember the context. First of all, you saw that, that's a three second clip.

• 54:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  Three second clip and you can't even see 80% of the screen.

• 54:57Patrick Bet-David?

  For sure.

• 54:58Speaker 03

  Because it's being hidden. Now, you and I both know, the way that we talk on a show like this-

• 55:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 55:04Speaker 03

  Is very, you know, it's like anything. Uh, you gotta know your audience. Now, that's a 3 a.m. conversation with 18-year-olds. I think that we're all talking about, we're all political people.

• 55:15Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, I'm, I'm, I'm also with you there, okay? Because, uh, uh, I'm, I'm not one that condones that behavior. I've told my kids, I swear to God if I ever, I had a conversation with my boys last week, I said if I ever hear you, use the N-word, I swear to God, you're not gonna like what I do to you. Okay? They were going to a school, my kids were going to a school, one of the best schools in, in Florida that has the highest SAT scores and a highest focus on math. The owner of that school's son- Says the N-word, who's a white guy, says the N-word. The father who owns the school, the board decides to kick his own son out of his school. Very weird situation that happened. So we're having this kind of a conversation.

• 55:58Patrick Bet-David?

  And one of my kids just went to Yale for three weeks for some summer camp that somebody else was holding in Yale, but he goes or comes back slightly different. Language, you're kind of hearing what's going on, right? And I'm 46. I can't judge you because during my time, Instagram didn't exist, Snapchat didn't exist, YouTube didn't exist, phone cameras didn't exist. And let me tell you, there's a lot of stuff we did at nightclubs and Army and videos were on, the way we speak at 2 o'clock in the morning. Maybe not at this level, I've never said anything like this, but I understand that it's riskier. So at a young age, you have to be aware, you're not, you're a very smart guy. You have to be aware that that kind of stuff gets caught, it's going to make it to public.

• 56:42Patrick Bet-David?

  So one, the responsibility is on you, but two, you have a higher risk you're going through because you're part of the social media family, not social media family, social media generation that we didn't go through at 46.

• 56:54Speaker 03

  Well, and I learned that lesson the hard way, but what is the lesson? The lesson is that this sort of thing, this is how political control is maintained. Which is to say that we have a culture where you don't even have to do anything wrong. If you say anything wrong, ever, in public, in private, even if it's not inherently wrong, if it sounds wrong, someone might be secretly recording and use it to make you look bad and then destroy your career or your reputation. And this is enforced selectively. Like, let's keep in mind, take Shapiro, for example, and this is something I pointed out when this happened. When Shapiro was 18 or 19 years old, he wrote an article on Town Hall, which said that

• 57:37Speaker 03

  "population transfer is not a dirty word." In other words, meaning, "we need to take all of the Palestinians and kick them out of Israel." He's advocating for ethnic cleansing on his Town Hall blog. Now, you could say whatever you want about that.

• 57:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Population transfer?

• 57:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, transfer is not a dirty word.

• 57:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Does that mean ethnic cleansing?

• 57:54Speaker 03

  That's what the article defends, yes.

• 57:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you pull it up? I'm curious, because I want to be fair. So, is he saying moving them from there to a different place?

• 58:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 58:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Fit like you can go to, alright, so raise your hand if you have been Shapiro. August 2003, which is 22 years ago, raise your hand if you have shocked that breakdown of so-called Middle East roadmap. If you're raising your hand, give yourself a nice heart slap across the chops. Maybe that will make you wake up from your reverie of self-education. The roadmap was doomed from the start, the Arab empty, Rob, I can't see it, and many of Jews. And the state is alone, no peace, the time for half-measured has passed. Bulldozing house of homicide bombers is useless, instituting ongoing curfews, users, roadblocks, touch fences, many negotiations.

• 58:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Some have rightly suggested that Israel be allowed to decapitate the terrorist leadership of, some have rightly suggested that Israel be allowed to decapitate the terrorist leadership of Palestinian Authority. Okay, so rightly, meaning they're in the right to suggest that Israel should be allowed to decapitate. Decapitate is what? I mean, killing is the easiest way to put it, but decapitate, doesn't that mean to, what is the actual definition of decapitate?

• 59:14Speaker 03

  They mean kill the leadership.

• 59:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Kill the leadership.

• 59:16Speaker 03

  But if you scroll down, the basis of the article is, when he says transfer, he's saying population transfer. In other words, saying this should not be stigmatized.

• 59:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Where do you see population transfer?

• 59:27Speaker 03

  That's the title of the article, is, "Transfer is not a dirty word." If you, if you read the whole article, that's the whole point of it.

• 59:31Patrick Bet-David?

  I want to read the sentence, Rob, go lower.

• 59:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Here's the bottom line, "If you believe that Jew state has a right to exist, then you must allow Israel to transfer the Palestinian and the Israel Arabs from Judea, Samaria, Gaza, and Israel proper. It's an ugly solution, but it's the only solution, and it's far less ugly than the prospect of bloody conflict at Infintium." So, okay, can you go to chat GPT and type in, what does, give me the word. What does the right to transfer, what was the word?

• 1:00:07Speaker 03

  Well, that's what the article says. He says, "Remove the Palestinian Arab population from Judea, Samaria, Gaza."

• 1:00:14Patrick Bet-David?

  How do you interpret what he's saying here? You're saying, you're thinking he's saying to kill them?

• 1:00:18Speaker 03

  He's saying to, to displace them, to take them and deport them somewhere else, some other Muslim country.

• 1:00:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, and so to you. You, would you define that as ethnic cleansing?

• 1:00:31Speaker 03

  By definition, yes.

• 1:00:32Patrick Bet-David?

  But it's not ethnic cleansing, like just wipe them off the face of the earth.

• 1:00:35Speaker 03

  It's not genocide, but it is by definition ethnic cleansing.

• 1:00:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, got it, so.

• 1:00:39Speaker 03

  And here's, but here's the point I'm trying to make is that is an extremely controversial statement. I mean, could you imagine if someone said whites and blacks can never live together in America? The, it's an ugly solution, we gotta take all the black people and send them back to Africa.

• 1:00:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 1:00:53Speaker 03

  That's racist.

• 1:00:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  It's racist to say Arabs can't live in Israel, we should remove them all. He wrote that under his name on a blog, but he never got canceled for saying that. But I got secretly recorded when I was 18 in a private conversation and people say, and he himself quote tweets it and says this is concerning, to amplify it to everybody in the conservative movement. That's what I say, it is selectively enforced.

• 1:01:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, but if he would have written this the other way around, let's say he's not a Jew, and he writes it about getting rid of Israel, or making a comment about Jews, that would be the equivalent of saying having sex with a dog is the same as, is degenerate, the way you put it down. To me, that would be the equivalent, not this. And the reason why I say that is because in 03, who's the president in 03? It's not Obama, is it Clinton, is it Bush?

• 1:01:50Speaker 03

  It's Bush, yeah.

• 1:01:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so in 03, how pro-Israel were we in 03 in America?

• 1:01:54Speaker 03

  Very pro-Israel.

• 1:01:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so, so this is a, this is a probably a 80% agreed message in 2003. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:02:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:03Patrick Bet-David?

  So I'm just trying to time the temperature of when it was written. Like if he wrote this today, I am sure it's not gonna be 80% support that he's gonna get. So 03, climate's different, fair. Continue, pleased with after what happened with that school situation.

• 1:02:19Speaker 03

  Sure, so, so I'm at this job training, they leaked this out to Reagan Battalion, this goes everywhere, and it was in that moment I defended myself very strongly, because they tried to use this clip, and by they, I'm talking about Ben Shapiro, Cassie Dillon, Cabot Phillips. They think they've got it, and now I'm canceled from the movement. So I took that, and you know, of course, they're expecting you to go out and apologize. They're expecting you to go out and say, I'm, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. But I said, you know what, I'm not sorry, because this is a political attack. This is not some kind of good faith, you know, because you said the comment is racist and would I phrase it that way if I was saying it in an official public capacity? No, but we tend not to do those things when we think we're in private, in confidence.

• 1:03:04Speaker 03

  You kind of understand that there's some discretion there. And that's not to say that I'm, you know, thought I could get away with it, but we don't speak in a lawyerly way when we're among friends.

• 1:03:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you believe that? You don't believe that, though.

• 1:03:16Speaker 03

  What, that it's degenerate?

• 1:03:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:18Speaker 03

  I wouldn't say it's immoral. I don't know that I would say degenerate, but I would say it's contrary to my values.

• 1:03:22Patrick Bet-David?

  How much of are you, you saying that in that moment because you're trying to be a shock jock and you're trying to get attention?

• 1:03:27Speaker 03

  I wasn't trying to be shock jock. Think about the question that was posed. Let's just back, I, I want to know what you think about this. We're in a private conversation, a girl takes her phone out, starts secretly recording and says, is having sex with a black man the same as having sex with a dog?

• 1:03:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you know she was doing that or no?

• 1:03:44Speaker 03

  I didn't know she was.

• 1:03:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, okay, yeah. Well, listen. Yeah, you gotta.

• 1:03:48Speaker 03

  But what is that to you? That's a setup.

• 1:03:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Nick, I'm talking to you in a way as if you're my nephew or my son, not in a, don't take it as I'm, I'm this to you. I'm not doing that at all. I'm, I'm just talking to you as I'm, I'm new to this game. I'm a business guy. So I'm, I haven't been, when I hear the histories, I don't know everyone's histories. When you don't know what you're talking about, you're right. We don't know the history of everybody, but we're willing to learn. We'll talk to everybody. The way I see it, Nick, is one of my kids is very political, very political, more than I'm political. But he's in the climate, so he's always, you know, yesterday he's at the Charlie's memorial. And this was one of the most difficult days of his life, witnessing Charlie pass away. I've never seen him. This is a very strong kid. Thirty minutes on my shoulders going because of what happened with Charlie.

• 1:04:33Patrick Bet-David?

  He's sitting right there at the event, listening to everything for five hours. And he's loving it. It's not like, oh my God, I want to go home. I'm tired. Can we eat? Can we do this? He's all in it. The way I look at you and the way I look at Charlie is. One of my kids is probably gonna pursue this route. And he's gonna go into politics. And I think you have a, an opportunity to mentor them to learn from the mistakes you made. Because whether you know it or not, you got a lot of kids that follow you. Okay? More than they follow me. There's more 13 year olds following you than they're following me. Not, uh, this is not sarcasm. It's not a shot. I'm just, uh, just the truth, right?

• 1:05:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Just like you were following maybe somebody and looking up at them. I think you gotta be careful, but I also think it comes with the territory. You know, like when I was growing up, I was hanging out with gangsters in LA. And I remember one day I'm in Vegas, 2, 3 o'clock in the morning. I'm in the street with a 15 year old kid that's driving a car. And he's got a gun that I don't know he's got a gun. Guys pull up here to our left, handful of African American guys, "Where are you from, homie? Where are you from?" He pulls out the gun, "I'm from New York." Boom, boom. I'm 15 years old. We're out there running in the streets of Vegas. Guess what? You gotta be careful who you get in the car with. That could have been the last day of my life. Somehow I made it. I go upstairs, my dad see me, my heart's like shaking. That was the risk then. I don't know if so much of that is the risk today. The risk is what you just did. You gotta be careful what you're saying.

• 1:06:03Patrick Bet-David?

  And that, that comes with certain, you know, backlash and responsibility, but I also think,

• 1:06:10Patrick Bet-David?

  and this is gonna give me some in trouble. I also think we should be forgiving. I also think we should be forgiving for Ben writing that as well as you saying it. I also think it needs to be like, listen. Yeah, I mean, maybe he said this. I don't know his upbringing. I'm trying to find out mom, dad. I've seen some stuff with mom and what some of the stuff she said, and maybe it's the influence from grandma. It's not, it's Mark Levin. It's not like you had a racist person. I don't, I don't see that. But we also have to be a little bit forgiving because if we don't and we stoke it more, you're gonna get worse and worse and worse. Right? The next person's gonna wanna get even more and more radical. Let's go past this one. If you don't mind.

• 1:06:45Speaker 03

  Well, but just real, I just wanna say one thing, if I can, just real, cuz I hear you and I agree with you. And, and I try to tell my followers now. I shake my head when my followers are trying to be edgier, uh, edgelording, trolling, whatever. I, I totally agree. And I try to be a better role model now. And in politics, you do gotta be careful what you say cuz you're right and everybody's always watching. The only reason I say that is to kinda paint a picture from my entire 18th year on earth. I'm an 18 year old college freshman.

• 1:09:21Speaker 01

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:09:54Patrick Bet-David?

  For a person who knows how to communicate as well as you do, when you use those words, you get an average person to question your intelligence. And you don't need to do that. You're above that. You're so talented. Why go there? Now, if you tell me, "Pat, I'm just doing it because I don't want anybody like you to tell me that I can shut my because I've gone through..." Fair, fine. You want to do that. I would just say, I want to show you something. Rob, can you pull up the... You ever read the book Power vs. Force?

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:10:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. So this book, Power vs. Force, I read it like 23 years ago. I was 23 years, 22, 23 years old when I read it. It had a very, very big impact on my life. The guy breaks it down on what types of leaders eventually get to a certain level of consciousness that they gain power naturally and they truly become a positive force to the world. Like, I believe Charlie's a positive force to the world. To me, I had, believe it or not, Charlie at number one spot. He's my number one draft pick. If I'm building a super team, he's my number one guy. No one was above Charlie. And there's a lot of guys, okay? No one. I respect all of them. I think they're very capable. But I thought Charlie was unique

• 1:11:12Patrick Bet-David?

  because of one specific reason. In this thing, he explains where, if you look at all the way to... You see the third row where it says level? So go all the way down to the level, you see where it says shame? So shame, like I have relatives who are driven by shame. They're so, they're so tough to be around. They're living a tough life. That's not you. Guilt. I can't believe what I did 10 years ago and they keep reliving this guilt. It's not you. Apathy. It's not you. Grief. That's not you. Fear. I don't think that's you. Uh, uh, desire. I don't know if that's you. Anger, pride? Maybe. I was, I was probably a fear, desire, women. And I was the one that didn't, wasn't as disciplined as you.

• 1:11:57Patrick Bet-David?

  I was very undisciplined when it came down to women. I just couldn't stop it. That was my vice that I, it wasn't video games, it wasn't porn, it wasn't gambling. It was women. So then you go to anger, pride. Right? Pride. Screw you, you know, so, so, so. Okay, no problem. Then comes courage. That's the first level of consciousness where you're entering. I think you have it. You have the courage to share with, there's a lot of risk in sharing your opinion. But then you go to neutrality. And then you have, which is let me hear both sides out. And let me see what's going on. Then you're willing to speak to everybody. I actually think you're willing to speak to anybody. I wouldn't say you're not willing to speak to anybody. And then you got acceptance that we're different. And then you got reason. And then you got love.

• 1:12:40Patrick Bet-David?

  I actually believe Charlie was that reason and love. And I don't think anybody else in the movement is that reason and love. I don't think anybody else. This is my opinion, what I, I process this. When I watch you and I see what direction you're going and what your upside is. My only feedback on this topic that we're having? Consider this feedback from a person who's never spoke, you and I just, audience notes, how many times have you and I spoken?

• 1:13:08Speaker 03

  Zero.

• 1:13:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Have we ever DM'd each other?

• 1:13:10Speaker 03

  Never, no.

• 1:13:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Have we had a phone call with each other?

• 1:13:11Speaker 03

  Never.

• 1:13:12Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, I think this is very important for the audience to know this. The guy paid for his own flight. We paid for your flight to come down here. We paid for your driver, we paid for your hotel. Didn't let do that. I actually respect that. That that was your way of saying, hey? I don't want anybody to say this, this, I just came here. Whether it's because of safety, reason, whatever, I respect all of it. The fact that he did that. And I think the audience needs to do that. Know that because they need to know where your character lies. All I'm saying is...

• 1:13:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Pump the brakes a little bit, and here's why. I wouldn't mind coming back to the story, but we can transition back to this because I still want to know the history. Let's go back on what happened this week with, not this week, 12 days ago I think it is now.

• 1:13:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Charlie Kirk, right? And you know what clips are going viral with you. A month ago, you're calling out,

• 1:14:02Patrick Bet-David?

  you know, what do you call it, Turning Point USA? And I don't know what you said, but you said it, you know what it is. You can fill in the context on what you said, right? I'm not going to play the clip. But you were saying something, it's the clip where you're at the top and the other one's at the bottom, right? What you said before and announced like, hey, listen, Charlie was a Christian, he was trying to do this. You were very complimentary about Charlie, okay.

• 1:14:25Patrick Bet-David?

  And Charlie Kirk got assassinated. And you've had death threats of people coming to your door, right? And things happening. How much has the last 12 days? Because you know, at first it's like, wow, you know, it's Israel. You're like, no, it's not Israel. You're actually a person that I would have thought would have been the first to go there. You actually said, no, I'm not going there. You know, Charlie, Nick is a fed, alright. This person CIA, alright. That kind of went away, didn't have a long lifespan, it's gone. Hey, it's the Groypers that did it. You know, it's your, it was out of the 13 questions, 11 were Groypers, whatever the number was, I may be wrong, I don't want to, don't fact, go fact check me on what the numbers,

• 1:15:08Patrick Bet-David?

  but I read somewhere that a number of the people that asked the question were Groypers. Groypers asked me a question when I was at Amphist. When a guy got up and said, how come you've never had Nicholas J. Fuentes on? And I said, he's got to stop saying the N-word. And this is when you kind of came back and reacted to the video. How are you processing this with Charlie Kirk? I've seen the tweets, I've seen the videos, but how are you processing this?

• 1:15:27Speaker 03

  Well, on a personal level, it's terrifying, you know, because he was out there and he got blown away doing what we all do, which is a public event or something like that. And of course, the same thing happened to me last year. Somebody came to my door with a gun while I was doing my show and tried to kill me. And so you realize, we do really have a problem in the country with this kind of violence. That was kind of the first level. My first reaction is I didn't know if this was some lone nut job, is there some kind of coordinated attack, if there would be copycats or something. But then on a deeper level, and people are calling me a hypocrite because I had complimentary things to say about Charlie, even though he was my adversary in politics, but I don't see it as a contradiction.

• 1:16:11Speaker 03

  I disagreed with him, I still disagree with the things he said, and my views on him as a, from a professional point of view, hasn't changed. What I have processed is the reaction to the killing from all of his fans and from people. You see that millions of people were touched by his activism. And I looked at his activism in a very one-dimensional way, which is that he's pro-Trump, he's pro-Republican, he's pushing the talking points. We would call it Talking Points USA. That was, that was kind of the joke.

• 1:16:43Patrick Bet-David?

  TPUSA Talking Points.

• 1:16:44Speaker 03

  Right, Talking Points, you know, but his job is to go out there and sell, you know, the party. But seeing the outpouring of support, I mean, I saw a lot of young people that were emotional. Young men, young women, going to the vigils and actually distraught. And I think they were distraught, one, because it was so evil, what was done to him, to see that kind of violence was really upsetting. But also, I think people were touched because Charlie Kirk, it does put things in perspective when a person dies. I don't believe he was a bad man. I disagreed with him, I didn't like his politics, but what I have come to respect about him is that he was a very hard worker. He was kind. You notice that when he talked to people he didn't like or disagreed with.

• 1:17:27Speaker 03

  He was open to other people, he changed his mind, even when he dealt with me, and he was never particularly nice to me, let's just say, but he was to a lot of people. And maybe more than anything, the thing that touched people the most was his testimony of his faith, that he believed in God. And, you know, I didn't like what he advocated for politics, but what he advocated for Christianity, that's the part that people are going to remember him for. That's the part that people, when they think Charlie Kirk, they don't think of the Republican debate bro, they think about a guy that was preaching marriage, values, you know, decent Christian values, Christ himself and his sacrifice on the cross, he was Protestant, I'm Catholic. And when they held the memorial yesterday, I, I'm going to tell you the truth, I thought

• 1:18:11Speaker 03

  there were things about the memorial that were distasteful. But one thing that was exceptional about it is the way that the name of Christ was proclaimed to everybody. And I think that- You know, when you see someone die like that, the reason it's jarring for people is because we realize that we're all gonna die. Suddenly, unexpectedly. You know, and like him, he's 31 years old. Nobody expects that a 31-year-old with that kind of money and influence is gonna die all of a sudden. He had plans, you know, he had, he was gonna get on his private jet and fly to do another event some other time. You know, nobody expects that you're gonna die, someone like that, at that age. And when you see someone like that cut down so viciously, you realize how life is so fragile, and it's so temporary, and it's so short. Any day, we could all die.

• 1:18:53Speaker 03

  And what that then naturally makes us think about is, well, what does it all really mean, then? If you could get stopped in your tracks at any time like that, what actually really matters in life? And what mattered about Charlie, when you see in the end, is it's not actually the times when he was, um, maybe taking the piss and saying, "What is a woman?" It's the times when he was sincerely professing his faith, talking about moral virtues, and the moral virtues that he lived in his deeds. And so, to me, I guess it kind of, it was a change in perspective, kind of realizing, everybody asks the same question, "How will I be remembered?" You know, when, when we get unexpectedly killed, or when we die, or when bad things happen. And it's a challenge to kind of live everyday thinking, "Could today be the day?"

• 1:19:36Speaker 03

  You know, "And what did I do on my final day? How did I act? Did I tell the truth? Was I courageous? Was I kind?" You know, not just to my friends and my family, but also to my enemies. So, it, I think it brought people to the center a little bit, centered in a spiritual sense.

• 1:19:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you at all watch it yesterday, where you had moments of sitting there saying, "Shit, this was a good guy, man. Shit, you know, I wish I would've changed the approach with our relationship." Did you at all have that moment?

• 1:20:07Speaker 03

  I, I don't know that I would've changed my approach, because politics is vicious, you know, and that's just the game. He was vicious to us, we were vicious to him. Uh, but I, I do think that I harshly judged him. I think when anybody dies, you feel that way. And I, I think, especially since he died, you look at him and you realize, this guy was not actually the worst guy in the world. You know, he was kind of my nemesis, in a way. And maybe I was his, on the right wing. But I realized that we had so much more in common than we disagreed with, actually.

• 1:20:37Patrick Bet-David?

  So do you think, um, do you think, uh, when you hear the statement, "Let's find a way to lower the temperatures." Do you in your mind say, "Ah, shut up with this lowering the temperature bullshit. Stop it. Lower the temperature. Do you know what's going on?" Do you, do you hear that message now and say, "Maybe we gotta lower the temperature." Hey, maybe, maybe if I got all these young guys that are following me, how Christ-like am I being? What am I, this whole WWJD, I had a call with a, somebody, uh, uh, two days ago, I won't mention the name, but also very talented and capable, very. Person I believe in tremendously as well. And we also, you know, uh, uh, have had a challenge.

• 1:21:18Patrick Bet-David?

  But, uh, I said, "Listen, every time, as I'm going through this, and I'm out there, I took my kids. Everyone's like, 'Don't take your kids to, you know, uh, uh, what do you call it, the, the Charlie's or something." I said, "No, no, I'm taking my kids. I believe in God, I have faith. And if I move forward with fear, what a coward. I'm not, I'm a leader, I'm a leader amongst leaders. We're gonna go there, they sit there proud, we're good. Of course, we make the investment for security and all that stuff, but we gotta go. We can't change our life dramatically, what we're seen as being cowards, right? We're never gonna do that. This is, America's the greatest country in the world. I'm gonna do my part. My life is changed because of God, Jesus, America. I am the luckiest human being alive.

• 1:22:00Patrick Bet-David?

  That is my feeling, the vibe that I have, right? But when you hear the words, "We gotta lower the temperature," what's the first thing you think about?

• 1:22:10Speaker 03

  I think it's kind of just a wrong perspective on it, because, you know, I'm an intense person, and I think that this is a decisive moment for America. And, you know, what, what really set me, what really made me beside myself is not necessarily that someone killed Kirk, because there's a lot of crazy people out here that unfortunately do carry out acts of violence. It was that there were like 100,000 liberals who are in their right mind that were celebrating, that were glib about it, that crashed vigils, that danced, that laughed, that mocked it, that said it was a good thing, he deserved it. And you realize that- It is a battle between good and evil. And I don't believe that when you're fighting evil, you lower the intensity. I think that we must very intensely fight evil because we have to win.

• 1:22:54Speaker 03

  If we lose, and by we, I mean decent people, they're gonna hurt us and they're gonna destroy the things that we care about. So for me, it's not necessarily about intensity. Temperature, I would say intensity. I think we should all fight for what we believe in intensely every day. I would change it and say, it's really a question of love and hate. It was a hateful action to kill Charlie Kirk. It's a hateful action to celebrate. I think that we should be intense, but we should also move in love. And what that means is, and I said this on my show, people kill each other with bullets and literally murder each other and take their lives. We also kill each other by destroying each other's reputations. When we lie about somebody, when we gossip about somebody.

• 1:23:34Speaker 03

  When you go and actually do the examine of conscience at confession at a Catholic church, and you go through all the different sins and you say, because you have to contemplate, you have to confess everything, every mortal sin, you have to confess all of it. So first you examine it systematically. Have I done this? Have I done that? And one of the violations of the commandment, thou shall not kill, is gossip, detraction. It's attacking somebody with a lie. Because that's a form of killing somebody, in a certain sense. It's a form of damning somebody. And so, I wouldn't say we need to lower the intensity, but we should always move in love. And by that, I don't mean some kind of like New Age and move in love, very vague and nonspecific. But I mean, we should want what's good for everybody.

• 1:24:19Speaker 03

  We should will the good for us, and also even for our enemies too, and for the whole country. And so, that's why I said, my first reaction when I did my show, a lot of people said, well, we now gotta go and kill two of theirs. They killed one of ours, now we need to get violent. You know, now we gotta go and pick up arms. How many is too many? I think there were, I mean, not even notable, but I think there were a lot of people that were thinking that.

• 1:24:42Patrick Bet-David?

  On the conservative side?

• 1:24:43Speaker 03

  I think so.

• 1:24:44Patrick Bet-David?

  You think so?

• 1:24:44Speaker 03

  I do.

• 1:24:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you saying Groypers? Or you're saying like, what part of that? Because, are you saying Groypers?

• 1:24:51Speaker 03

  No, no, absolutely not.

• 1:24:53Patrick Bet-David?

  You're saying just conservatives, period?

• 1:24:55Speaker 03

  I'm saying, yeah, I think that, I mean, do you think that after people saw Charlie Kirk get murdered, there weren't at least some people that said, we have to match the left?

• 1:25:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Perfect, I'm glad you brought that up. So, my initial reaction, I'm a very bad person.

• 1:25:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Very. Initial reaction is vengeance. Right? That's normal. Initial.

• 1:25:18Patrick Bet-David?

  But. You know, that's the part where. You know, there are certain people that will come say stuff about me. They say it all the time. You're, you know, you're, you're, uh, you're, you've, you've got money from Mossad. We, we, we don't do sponsorship money here. We haven't taken sponsorship money for two years. The only thing we take is AdSense and that's what YouTube does. We don't pick and choose what it is, right? But they'll say stuff like that. Doesn't bother me. Because it's like, you know, if you fight it, they're gonna do more of it. So we're gonna, that's what bothers them. Let me keep going. Nah, I'm good. I'm gonna do your part. Yeah, I'm gonna do. Maybe if I was in my twenties, I would constantly fight that over and over and over again. I'm not. To me, I, I, I also think there's a moment there, here. Where we have a moment, I, I feel like within the conservative party.

• 1:26:02Patrick Bet-David?

  There's a lot of different gangs. Okay? In the mob, if you go study the history of the mob with Lucky Luciano, when they created the commission. All these different families came together. Right? It doesn't mean. We're buddy, buddy, hey, what's, how you doing, you know? Everything's good. That's not what that means. It just means, listen. At the end of the day. Maybe the enemy isn't who we think the enemy is. Okay? Maybe you and Charlie, ninety percent, I don't know, eighty, ninety percent, you were on the same page. Is it worth us getting this nasty over the ten percent? I don't know. I, I, I don't know. Uh, I, I feel we're at an era right now. That I think all the voices matter.

• 1:26:46Patrick Bet-David?

  And I think, like, I don't know what your aspirations are long term. Do you have any aspirations to run for office one day?

• 1:26:51Speaker 03

  Potentially.

• 1:26:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, potentially. Do you think Charlie was gonna one day run for office?

• 1:26:54Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:26:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Absolutely. And I always said that all the time. I think you probably have some plans of one day running. Uh, they showed me a clip when he said, I want a hundred thousand people that are. Uh, uh, uh, uh, making money, low key, underground, nobody knows where you're kind of breaking that. Okay, great. So you want to run for office one day? Great, you have your own certain ideas, philosophies that you, you want to go. But I think that this next part.

• 1:27:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Excuse me, I think this next part, as we go through it,

• 1:27:23Patrick Bet-David?

  this is an MLK moment.

• 1:27:26Patrick Bet-David?

  This was the MLK of Republicans and conservatives. Even though Martin Luther King was a Republican and his wife called Nixon to get some help, she, they didn't call back and then he called John F. Kennedy, she called, and then that's when they flipped, "I'm gonna be a Democrat and I'm next, you know", and then you got Barry Goldwater and the whole thing is a mess. African-Americans were conservatives for many, many years statistically.

• 1:27:47Patrick Bet-David?

  My, my, my, uh, question for you is, how is your approach gonna change moving forward? Are you still planning on going all out, aggressive? Because you said love and hate, right? Are you still trying to go with that part? Like yesterday, Trump said something, I don't know if you caught it, you probably caught it, when he said, "You know, uh, uh, I hate my enemies, I hate my enemies." "I don't know, Erica's probably gonna come talk to me afterwards, change my mind." You gotta love the guy that he talks like that, right? You guys got a little bit of that, similar style of things that you guys do. But I do think, deep down inside, he's loved today. I do think he's loved today. What's gonna change about your approach? Anything, or you're planning on being the same?

• 1:28:30Speaker 03

  Um, you know, to be honest with you, I don't, uh, I don't think there's much that needs to change. I mean, you know, we all have a battle that we fight every day, you know? I mean, like you said, your first reaction when you saw him go down was vengeance.

• 1:28:42Patrick Bet-David?

  No question.

• 1:28:43Speaker 03

  Especially when you do a live show, so many of the things I've said that I regret are unfortunate things. It's things that you get whipped up talking about something you're passionate about and out of anger, you know, something like that. You take it too far, you say something careless. Um, and so, you know, to the extent that it's a reminder of our mortality, I always try every day to keep it truthful, um, and to make sure that it's coming from the right place. I don't think we should, we should be emotional. I don't think anger, and I agree with you, the chart that you showed. We shouldn't want to be angry, we should want to be prudent, we should want to be thoughtful, and we should want to act out of rationality as opposed to emotion. And so, to the extent that Charlie Kirk died, how it affected me, I'm gonna try harder to

• 1:29:26Speaker 03

  move in that way, but I think I've been tending in that direction for a long time.

• 1:29:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Did he inspire you? Was there anything about him that inspired you?

• 1:29:34Speaker 03

  Yes. The one thing that he inspired me about, because I did not like him when he was alive, I'll be honest with you. The one thing that inspired me is this guy was a workhorse, and I respect that, because I have a hard time with discipline. I'm not the most disciplined person when it comes to hard work, and this guy was a beast. I mean, the stuff that he did, working morning to night, you gotta think, he did a three-hour show every day, wrote books, then he went home and managed Turning Point, then he went and flew out and did 100 campus events. That's just like, him and Trump, they have that Protestant work ethic, and I know you're a capitalist, you're a businessman, there's nothing I respect more than people that build, people that work hard. That's noble, that's good, that's a virtue. So, that was very inspirational to me.

• 1:30:18Patrick Bet-David?

  I want three more hours with you, because I've got so many questions, I'm getting so... What do you think about Thomas Rousseau? Is there any thoughts you have of Thomas Rousseau?

• 1:30:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, I actually watched your show with him.

• 1:30:27Patrick Bet-David?

  What'd you think about him?

• 1:30:28Speaker 03

  You know, I think he's very disciplined also, very composed, very disciplined, but I just don't like that type of activism. I don't know how productive that is.

• 1:30:40Patrick Bet-David?

  What did you disagree with him on?

• 1:30:43Speaker 03

  You know, he is an ideological racialist, and I believe that goes too far. I'm a Catholic, I don't know what his religious views are. I think there's a tendency from some white nationalists to idolize race. They believe that race is the highest virtue. As a Catholic, I do believe there's a universal community of human beings, that we are all human in a fundamental way. And although I do believe that race is real, I also think we're all humans also. So, I would say he's more racialist than me. And I also think that, um, from an ideological point of view, from a professional point of view, I just do not support that type of activism, these provocative marches where they're getting in, they're not getting in people's faces, but it is intended to provoke, it is intended to be

• 1:31:28Speaker 03

  transgressive, and I don't know how much I'm, I like that.

• 1:31:31Patrick Bet-David?

  He was also interesting to get to know, and he was very good in the way he communicated. His style is very different than yours. Uh, he's very, you know, the way he speaks is more here, you're more animated, you have a very smooth style of delivering your message, but I actually wanted to know this guy, to see what drove him. Uh, your opinion of me, I'm Middle Eastern, married to a white girl, okay? Uh, I'm from Iran, Christian guy, mom's a Christian, dad's a Christian, mom was a communist, dad was an imperialist, went to Germany, refugee camp, came to the States. Do you think there should be more opportunities of guys like me to end up here? Or do you think it's better off for America, purely based on odds,

• 1:32:13Patrick Bet-David?

  to minimize more of me coming to America?

• 1:32:17Speaker 03

  Well, I think that the most important thing to consider about immigration is, it's just the volume, it's the numbers. I don't have a problem in principle with immigration at all. If we brought in a million, or maybe not a million, but if we brought in, let's say, 300,000 people every year that are like you, that are intelligent, that are, you know, productive, that are going to be generative, I don't necessarily have a problem with that in and of itself. The problem is that for 30 years, we bring in 2 or 3 million people per year. You know, the foreign-born population has doubled, we brought in 50 to 60 million people since 1990, that's just too many people. And how I would distinguish it is that we're bringing in so many people

• 1:33:00Speaker 03

  that it's fundamentally altering what America is. You go to like Miami, Miami's like a Caribbean country. Like, it doesn't even feel like America. It feels more like Costa Rica or something. You go to New York, LA, it doesn't feel like what America used to be, what America is distinctly. And that's what I have a problem with, that, that pretty soon everywhere, it's going to be so diverse, linguistically, ethnically, religiously, that you can't even say America is anything. You know, like the mayor of Minneapolis, he's doing advertisements in Somali-ian. What is that?

• 1:33:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, they had a cop, the cop badge is now in Arabic. I don't know if you saw that or not?

• 1:33:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:33:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. How do you feel about that?

• 1:33:40Speaker 03

  I think that's, I think that's horrible.

• 1:33:41Patrick Bet-David?

  What, what do you think about, between the two, uh, uh, communities, Muslim and, and Jews? Which one concerns you more?

• 1:33:51Speaker 03

  Jews, for sure.

• 1:33:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Tell me why.

• 1:33:52Speaker 03

  More powerful. They're more powerful.

• 1:33:55Patrick Bet-David?

  So, more powerful in a way, you're talking the fact that they have money, finance, Hollywood, is that what you're, which is?

• 1:34:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, they have more position in American society.

• 1:34:03Patrick Bet-David?

  And, and how do you think they got that?

• 1:34:05Speaker 03

  I think they got it because they're, they are extremely connected. They're a transnational entity. You know, this is how the Rothschilds got started. Their superpower is that they live everywhere. And they have a, their Jewish identity supersedes their local identity. So, a Jewish person in America, or in Germany, or in France, or in the UK, they can all talk to each other and work together.

• 1:34:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you think that's a bad thing?

• 1:34:30Speaker 03

  Not in and of itself. It's a, it is detrimental for America, though.

• 1:34:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Is it detrimental, though? Because, uh, uh, you know, uh, I'm Assyrian, right? And, and I wish Assyrians were more like this. And let me tell you why I relate to them. We don't have a country. Assyrians used to have a country. We, we used to be the first warriors. We're written about in the Bible. You, you read it all over the place. You know, the history we had, the things we invented, and then we became a little cocky. And God came in and was like, "Listen, man, relax Assyrians. You ain't gonna come and be the king of the jungle. It's me." And you hear the stories about that they built the tower to go all the way to the top because we are Assyrians and, you know? And then we failed. He's like, "Nope. Look at you now. No one knows who Assyrians are. You don't even have a country, right? We know the land in Iraq or wherever you are. You don't have it anymore."

• 1:35:19Patrick Bet-David?

  I think when, when a community becomes too cocky, the man upstairs is gonna handle that, himself, right? But, in a sense, when you see, they went from a small community to have this much influence...

• 1:35:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Isn't that almost impossible for them to pull off? Like, isn't that? So it either produces one of two things. I'm not intimidated. I'm not a guy that is envious or jealous or, oh my God, that guy's richer than me. That guy's this, this guy's... I'm not. I want to see what they did and what worked for them. For example, to me, when I think about Jews, I think about Mormons, I think about Scientologists. I used to have an office where half the office was all Scientology. And I learned all these phrases, assist, or, you know, they, you know, I went to their church and I saw Dianetics and L. Ron Hubbard and what he would say when he'd get a headache, you do this, and all these weird acts. I'm like, oh, interesting. How much money? We give $200,000 off. Why'd you give that?

• 1:36:15Patrick Bet-David?

  But let me tell you, those guys that were in, they had each other's back. It was a fraternity that you wish family members were like this, right? I think Scientologists have it maybe more than Jews. So I think Jews will bite each other a little bit, not as much. And Mormons have their, each other's back. Of course, there's a following out as well, where people come out and they'll talk about Godmakers or, you know, what Gordon B. Hinckley. And I've read all of that stuff from over the years. But what's wrong with them winning at the highest level?

• 1:36:44Speaker 03

  Well, I, I agree with you that it's, it is remarkable, and it is actually ominous how much they've achieved. Here's the problem, though. America's an open society. You know, the, the premise of this country is it's self-government of, by, for the people. There, there's a site, egalitarian idea that we are all citizens and our government is going to be comprised of, of the citizenry of America. That's deeply embedded in who we are and in our government, our whole system. And just take me, for example. I'm, I'm Italian, Mexican, and Irish. The Italians were very much like this when they immigrated to America. You know, they had in Chicago what they called the outfit, which was the mafia. And they looked out for each other.

• 1:37:24Speaker 03

  And when my grandfather died on my mom's side, I believe my grandmother got a loan from the outfit. And they would come by every month or whatever, and they'd bring a fruit basket and they'd look after her and, and they provided financially also.

• 1:37:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Was it Spilater's group? Do you know the history of it? Or was it Tony Spilater?

• 1:37:40Speaker 03

  I don't know who it was specifically.

• 1:37:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, got it.

• 1:37:43Speaker 03

  But, but so, you know, the, these are some of the stories I would hear growing up from my mom and my grandmother.

• 1:37:47Patrick Bet-David?

  So think about, at that time... How many people were against Italians at that time? How many people didn't like Italians in New York? Because, do you know Bank of America was first called Bank of Italy? Did you know that?

• 1:37:59Speaker 03

  No, I didn't.

• 1:38:00Patrick Bet-David?

  So can you pull up, Rob? Ask, was Bank of America first Bank of Italy? If I'm wrong, it is what it is. I think Bank of America was originally Bank of Italy. And everybody used to, yes, the Bank of America was originally founded in Bank of Italy in 1904 to an Italian-American in San Francisco, so in that foundation, these Italian immigrants and other underserved people, the bank eventually merged with another institution to form Bank of America and changed its name to Bank of America, right? The tellers were Italians. You know, they would give smaller loans, 10 bucks, 4 bucks, 5 bucks to them. And some people were not supportive of that. They're like, what are Italian immigrants doing here? You guys are becoming too much power in New York, we're not happy about this. So there was some of that going on.

• 1:38:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:37Patrick Bet-David?

  A hundred years ago.

• 1:38:38Speaker 03

  And that's what I'm saying is, that did exist. And then what happened eventually is that Italians assimilated. Eventually, these groups, these ethnic advocacy groups were broken up, if you could call the outfit that, or the mob of New York. And then Italians assimilated. And when I grew up, I saw myself as American. I didn't see myself as Italian-American, I just saw myself as American. And I think that, you know, when you see Jewish people working together, I don't think there's anything wrong with that inherently. And I agree with you, it's like a superpower. It's actually admirable in some ways, they look out for each other. But if society becomes, American society in particular, a place where every group is ganging up, well, we're the whites, we're the blacks, we're the Jews, we're the so...

• 1:39:21Speaker 03

  Then I think what America is starts to come apart. And it turns into kind of like a bit of a politicized race war. And I think that you either have to have a society where everybody gets to play by those rules and everybody could be pro what they are, or everybody is assimilated and we're all Americans. And that's why I say it's detrimental, is that if Jewish people are... Jewish first, not of, by and for America, but of, by and for the Jewish nation. This is problematic when they're in positions of power, because are they looking out for all of us? Or are they looking out for themselves first? And when you look at the Israel policy, that's where people start to say, I think you're looking out for yourselves first. I think you're biased. And unfortunately, you're using the public purse and American soldiers to fight your own battles. And that's the problem.

• 1:40:06Speaker 03

  It's not, I don't have hatred for them. I don't have a problem with them and themselves, or even what they do. It's just that with our system, that doesn't work.

• 1:40:13Patrick Bet-David?

  You know what I would say to that as well? Uh, when, you know, if they use the American soldiers in their advantage and all that other stuff. Okay. Uh, who negotiated that deal? Some president negotiated that deal. Someone said yes to it, right? When they say, well, let me tell you, you know, that person is afraid to platform this guy because he's afraid his donors are gonna go and do this. And it's, it's Israel's fault. No, it's not. It's the guy who runs the, it's not no Israel's fault. What are you talking about? You know, this guy sends me a message. AIPAC, I got a text, not a text, what do you call it? In the X, uh, a DM I get from AIPAC, okay? Hey, we'd like you to come to Israel. We'd like to invite you.

• 1:40:57Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm sure many people get that message, right? They send it. I said, I'm gonna come with my pastor. I don't want you to pay for it. I'm gonna pay for it. I wanna bring my crew, cuz I wanna go to Jerusalem. You're not gonna see me putting the, uh, the, uh, what do they call it? The, uh, I'm not gonna put that on. But guess what? I respect the culture and I wanna go to Gaza and I would ask for some IDF protection that if we can go to Gaza, show it to her. I wanna see this stuff. I wanna go with my pastor. First time around, I'm not gonna take my kids. Maybe the second, third, third time, I'll take my kids. But to me, I don't put the onus on, like when a guy's like, that guy has slept with so many peoples, this, this, this. The girl said yes.

• 1:41:38Patrick Bet-David?

  No, but you don't understand. He's a man whore. But the girl said yes.

• 1:41:45Patrick Bet-David?

  So is it Israel or is it the girl? Do you understand what point I'm trying to make here?

• 1:41:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:41:50Patrick Bet-David?

  So to me, it's kind of like, I mean, look, if we, you said Israel over Muslims, right?

• 1:41:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Which of the two do you think has been a bigger net positive to America?

• 1:42:04Speaker 00

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• 1:42:29Speaker 01

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:43:00Speaker 03

  Oh, it has to be Israel, absolutely.

• 1:43:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so, so, so a part about that, that part-

• 1:43:05Speaker 03

  But, well, in terms of, I wouldn't say net positive. I would say in terms of raw, maybe like gross positive. Because they've had a lot of contributions culturally and even, you know, in terms of art, literature, music, also scientifically. But it's difficult to say on that because I also think that there's quite a bit of a detriment. I think that the melting pot comes from the Jewish community.

• 1:43:28Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you mean by that?

• 1:43:29Speaker 03

  The idea of the melting pot, that comes from a Jewish playwright. You know, because Jewish people come to America and, and like all immigrants, they say, well, we want America to be more welcoming. So they start to spin up these ideas that, well, America was never this country of white Christians. It's always been a melting pot for all immigrants. They want the country to be more open because that makes it more comfortable for them. It makes it more tolerant for them. But this has also made us more open and tolerant for Muslims, for example.

• 1:43:58Speaker 03

  We're bringing, I mean, who's been the biggest driver of like the heart seller 65 immigration act? It was like the SPLC, which is run by Jewish lawyers. And so they're major drivers of mass migration. They're also major drivers of the pro-Israel politics, like the Iraq war. It was many Jewish journalists and pundits and advocates.

• 1:44:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure.

• 1:44:17Speaker 03

  To a point being is like, when you calculate on net, and I agree with you, like, I think there are a lot of people that are critical of Israel that are reluctant to acknowledge the good that Jews do. And I think the Jews are, they're brilliant, many of them are brilliant.

• 1:44:30Patrick Bet-David?

  So, so, so what I'm saying net positive, I'm talking jobs, economy. How often you hear about crime, what they do, like, if you have a choice between living in a city in Minnesota, Dearborn, and living in, I don't know what's the biggest city, what's the city, Boca Raton, let's just say, right? Uh, uh, if you have a choice between raising your family, between Dearborn and Boca Raton, where do you choose?

• 1:44:55Speaker 03

  Boca Raton, of course, yeah.

• 1:44:56Patrick Bet-David?

  So, so the point is like, they go to a place, and by the way, to me, if that was Muslims, guess what? I would say Muslims. But statistically, wherever they live, it's safer, things are nicer, things get better.

• 1:45:10Speaker 03

  I agree.

• 1:45:10Patrick Bet-David?

  And that, that is one part to measure where they're at. Now, uh, do I see, uh, them overly aggressive? Do I see them, the type that are gonna use politicians and buy them like Marjorie Taylor Greene and other people are saying? 100%. Do I see them, they're gonna be there in everyone's DM and email saying, hey, you know, we'd love to support you, we'd love to bring you to Israel, and you know, doing all that stuff? It's obvious, I'm seeing it myself, okay? Do I look at that and shame them and say, oh, you shame on, I look at that and say, no. I wish Armenians would do that. I've never gotten an invitation from Prime Minister of Armenia. He should probably send me an invite to go there, right? It's not a bad idea to come and show the country.

• 1:45:54Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm Armenian, I'm a Syrian, Syrians don't have a country, it's probably a good idea. You don't see that, you wish others would do that. So for me, as much as when I go into that, uh, by the way, I'll give you one other side that, uh, you know, Israel's gonna be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. This other side to me is, I actually do believe they leverage Mossad to get intel. I actually do believe they use blackmail, I actually do believe they do that, so.

• 1:46:17Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, it's like, oh, there's nothing going on with Epstein. No, no, no, I, Michael Wolff did a podcast with him two months ago. And when he was at Epstein's house, the 100 hours of recording that he has with him, I said, how many times would Ehud Barak there? Am I saying his name correctly, Ehud Barak? Ehud Barak. He said he was there many times. He saw Bill Gates there many times. Why would the former prime minister visit the guy 30 something times? Just because the conversation's great? That's a little bit suspect, right? So to me, I'll go there, but I'll go the other way. And so what I'm trying to do, like if you're wondering what my role is here, okay? My role is, I want to continue talking to you. I want us to do many of these together as we go through whatever journey we go through next 5, 10, 15, 20 years. And I'd like you to be around 60 years from now, to see whatever you want to do.

• 1:47:02Patrick Bet-David?

  And let's see what your ideas are going to land and what they're going to go through. I'm sure as we all age, some of them get better, some of them get sharper. Maybe this used to be a number one to us at 26, maybe it's going to be number six when we're 46. Maybe this used to be number 11 when we're 26, now it's number two when we're 52. Who knows? Life changes, you evolve, right? You're just watching Trump in the last 10 years change. He's not the same, just the way he does his speaking. I was watching him speak yesterday and the way he's doing press conferences, a very different guy on where he's at. And it's not like he's tired and he's not working. You said him and Charlie Kirk to a Protestant, you know, workers thing that they have. It's not that. I just see his going through it himself.

• 1:47:41Patrick Bet-David?

  I would like people on both sides to not be like, oh my God, he just sat Nick Fuentes on, that's it! No, you don't control me. I want to talk to you. Oh my God, he brought Cuomo and he did this, dude. Cuomo, we orchestrated a conversation with him and Dave Smith. It was great. And we had Chris Cuomo and Candace speak. It was great. They gave their arguments. And Chris said some things about, you know, people don't need IDs to vote. I don't agree with that. But guess what? At least we had the conversation, right? I'll sit with Weiner. I'll sit with you. I'll sit with, uh, uh, uh... Let me tell you, I got a lot of death threats after having Bibi on. And I had three outcomes with Bibi, right? To me, it was very simple what I wanted to get. I wish I had two hours with the guy. But it was a short time.

• 1:48:25Patrick Bet-David?

  But I, I guess maybe the final thing that I would want to get before we wrap up. Is, do you mind, in a three to a five minute part, finish up that part on when we were going through with you and Cassie, and Media Matters, and Leadership Institute, and Reagan Battalion, and the video that we were talking about, can, do you mind going past that a little bit?

• 1:48:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:49Patrick Bet-David?

  And maybe let's finish that story, and then we'll wrap up the podcast.

• 1:48:52Speaker 03

  Sure, so, yeah, then I went to Charlottesville. And, uh, just for context, I wasn't at the Tiki Torch event. I got there actually the next day. And by the time I got to the actual thing, they had already shut it down. So, I, I got blamed for being there, even though technically I wasn't even really there. Uh, but so I, I went there, because of that I got fired from RSBN, they let me go after that. That's when I started doing my show independently. And, you know, kind of the rest was history, but I started doing it independently. And, um, and I, I guess the next big saga was my interaction with Charlie Kirk, which is where my followers were going to his events, this was in autumn 2019. And they were asking him, "Why are you Israel First? And why do you support legal, mass legal migration?

• 1:49:36Speaker 03

  And why are you so tolerant towards some of the, like, LGBT stuff? He was very pro-gay at that time, and other things. And, um, and that was really where I put myself on the map with, which was with the Groypa War, where we were kind of challenging and pushing back on him. And ever since then, I guess I've been the kind of underground counterweight to these more establishment GOP people. And, uh, it's sort of interesting over the years how this has evolved, my relationship with Trump, with Charlie Kirk. These are kind of the standard bearers of conservatism in this day and age. And, uh, I, I guess I'm just the story of, uh, of the congenital, like, the archetypal, young, white male of the Trump era.

• 1:50:20Speaker 03

  The young, white male, extremely online, very political, disaffected, disillusioned, uh, that, that has just kind of been following all these things to their reasonable conclusion. And, um, It's interesting how that's changed over 10 years. I mean, it's been such a long time I've done it. But, uh, but yeah, that, that was sort of kind of the next part in that saga, but as you know, it's a very long story, so.

• 1:50:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes, it is. And, and, and I see a bunch of stuff going on with you guys, you know, all the names, everybody going back. I've watched, uh, the clips, we react to some of them here on the podcast. If you see us when we react to it, then you're always making noise. So you, you're, you know, we have to react to it. So your sense of humor is, let me tell you, you know, you have that, that sense of humor and the wit. That's a, it's a, it's a secret weapon. Cause you can have all the brains you want. You can be a very good communicator. But if you don't have that funny sense of humor side, that, that is a secret weapon that can't be taught. You can go take all the Udemy classes. You can go to Harvard, Yale, you can go to, you know, whatever courses you want to go take.

• 1:51:21Patrick Bet-David?

  You can study everything about the constitution. No, every word better than anybody. The Federalist Paper you can recite it, the Bible, all of it. You don't have a sense of humor? You know, and you're, you're sarcastic, you're a troll, you got all of that. So it's great for camera.

• 1:51:35Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:51:36Patrick Bet-David?

  But Nick, I really appreciate you coming out. I got respect for you that you paid for it yourself. Allow me to pay for you next time if you come out. You don't have to worry about the driving. Let us at least take care of your flight. But, uh, I look forward to many more conversations, uh, that we have together. This was actually, I, I, when people say, what do you think is gonna happen? I think we're gonna have a great conversation. It was exactly what I thought it was gonna be. I thought it was gonna be a great conversation.

• 1:51:59Speaker 03

  I'm glad to hear it.

• 1:52:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Anytime.

• 1:52:00Speaker 03

  Thank you, man. Thanks for having me.

• 1:52:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Anytime. Uh, and, and I think you are on Manect, right? I think you are on Manect as well, but people can ask you questions if I'm not mistaken.

• 1:52:09Speaker 03

  Uh, I think we're gonna set it up now. I'm not there yet, though.

• 1:52:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Fantastic. All right. So guys, um, we're gonna put his contact information below to get ahold of him. Having said that, take care, everybody. Bye bye, bye bye.

• 1:52:20Speaker 03

  Hi, I'm Nick Fuentes. If you wanna text me or call me or ask me a question, you can find me on Manect.

• 1:52:29Speaker 01

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:53:00Speaker 05

  Your website can do a lot more than you think. With Base44, describe what you want in your own words and build a website that looks your way and works your way. Let people book with you or buy from you, with hosting already included. Then, help more people discover your site with built-in search tools, social content, and Google Ads. Build it, get it live, and start sharing. Go to base44.com.