Nas, Grandmaster Caz, Steve Stoute & Ben Horowitz on Paying Hip-Hop’s Pioneers Their Due

Ben Horowitz and Erik Torenberg sit down with Nas, Grandmaster Caz, and Steve Stoute for a conversation about the Paid in Full Foundation and its mission to recognize and support the pioneers who built hip-hop. Ben, Nas, and Steve share how the foundation began, why simply giving artists money wasn’t enough, and how the Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards became a way to pair financial support with the recognition many foundational artists never received. Caz brings the perspective of one of those pioneers, reflecting on his role in hip-hop’s earliest history and what receiving the award has meant for his life and legacy. They also discuss the enormous cultural and commercial impact of hip-hop beyond music, from language and fashion to some of the world’s biggest brands, why so many of its pioneers captured so little of that value, and what happens when generations of hip-hop finally come together in the same room.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ben Horowitz?

  I think in life, it's impossible to do anything great if you start with what's possible. You have to start with what's right. Hip hop's not that big. Like, the guys who made the art form are not that many. And so, why can't we honor them?

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Acknowledging and celebrating, and then bringing this group of people together, is something that the industry should have done a long time ago.

• 0:22Speaker 02

  When people see me and they see my passion, this nigga still got it. He's still doing it because I have to. Hip hop don't have social security. You have to work.

• 0:31Speaker 03

  The whole thing about hip hop is about to grow, to be better. And I think we are living our lyrics, we're paid in full.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  I want everybody to know around the world what Grandmaster Caz looks like, and to celebrate him and applaud this man for what he's done, and celebrate Roxanne, and celebrate Melly, and the DOC, and everybody else who's had these achievements.

• 0:52Speaker 02

  The thing is the honor. The thing is putting you in the light that you deserve to be in.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  If you're watching this, then love hip hop.

• 0:59Erik Torenberg?

  Hip hop changed music, fashion, language, and culture. But many of the people who built it never received the recognition or financial rewards that matched their impact. In this episode, Ben Horo and I sit down with Nas, Grandmaster Caz, and Steve Stout to tell the story behind the Payton Full Foundation and its mission to honor hip hop's pioneers. We discuss why the foundation pairs financial support with recognition, what happens when generations of hip hop artists come together, and why giving these artists their flowers is about more than an award. And Caz shares what that recognition has meant firsthand, from his place in hip hop history to how Payton Full helped change his life.

• 1:44Erik Torenberg?

  So this is the first time this group has gotten together to publicly talk about the Payton Full Foundation. Guys, welcome to the podcast.

• 1:51Ben Horowitz?

  Thank you.

• 1:52Erik Torenberg?

  So Ben, why don't you introduce the foundation? And maybe let's get into the origin story, as far back as you want to go, as to how this came to be.

• 1:59Ben Horowitz?

  Yes, so Payton Full is an organization meant to honor the legacy of the people who created one of the most important musical art forms of all time, hip hop, and make sure that they're paid in full financially, spiritually, and culturally. And the idea kind of started with me, Steve, and Nas. So it always bothered me that I bought Payton Full, the album, for $10. And I got, you know, in my career, and you know, people in tech know this, I probably got at least $5 million worth of value out of that record, but there was no way to pay it back, and it needed to be paid back.

• 2:42Ben Horowitz?

  And so, I had the idea originally, and I called Steve. Steve and I have been friends for many, many years. And I said, "Steve, I have this idea. What do you think?" And he said, "Well, it's not only a good idea, but it's a very timely idea because people are talking about this right now, but they're not doing anything." So if you listen to the podcast, people are saying, "Oh, these rappers, these old guys, they don't have any money. They're dusty, they're this, they're that," and all these kinds of things. And these are very, very important guys, but nobody's doing anything. And so, I thought, "Well, let's do something." And then, the next call I made was to Nas. And Nas had a great insight because a lot of the concept,

• 3:26Ben Horowitz?

  our dear friend, all of our friend Quincy Jones, had a thing called the Jazz Foundation, where he would get money to the old jazz guys. And I told it to Nas, and Nas said, "That's not going to work that way in hip hop because in hip hop, you can't just give somebody money. It has to be more than that. It has to be a recognition of what they did and who they are." And so, that's when we got the idea of, "Well, let's have a big award show, have this idea of the Grandmaster Award for the true greats of hip hop, and then invite everybody to honor these guys."

• 4:06Ben Horowitz?

  And we started off with two all-time greats, Scarface and Rakim.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Well, I'll just add to that, if you don't mind. Before we even got to the first show, it was also timely because Scarface was going through a medical condition.

• 4:23Ben Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  And I remember, I was in the south of France, and I called him, and he needed to get his kidney, to get his kidney from his son, a kidney transplant. And it wasn't the right doctors. Obviously, there's a lot of care and concern on that anyway. But more specific was the money and the doctor who was performing the surgery. And I called him, and I've known Scarface for years, but like, when I called him, literally from the south of France in June, and he got that phone call from me about what we were going to do, he was in shock. I mean, just imagine, the phone call comes randomly from a guy you hadn't spoken to in two years, and I'm calling you about your medical condition, and I'm telling you that we got you financially.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  We're going to help you. And I remember calling Ben after that and saying, "Look, I spoke to Scarface, man," and he was in disbelief. In fact, early on, people were in such disbelief, they didn't believe that it was real. And we had a hard time.

• 5:25Ben Horowitz?

  They thought it was a scam.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  We had a hard time actually helping people because they didn't believe it.

• 5:32Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah, well, I have some stories on that of, I don't even know if I can mention the names. But we had people who literally didn't get the award because they thought it was a scam.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. They just, they didn't want to mess with it. And that's actually what reinforced the belief that if you celebrated the artist, and it didn't feel like you were giving them something like reparations, but you were actually celebrating them and give them the honor and dignity they deserve that they had not received properly, then that would be the way that it would be accepted and celebrated. And it wasn't until we did the first one. And it was, you know, we, like any other startup, you duct tape and, right? Whatever we got to do to get this thing going. But we had Scarface and Rakim. And then, obviously, the support of the board,

• 6:23Speaker 01

  and having Nas on the board, and that all helped. And then, it started to go through the community. There is something that's happening, and that's when it worked. But literally, it was disbelief from the initial phone calls and just initial reach out, like, "Why would anybody do this?" That's how fucked they've been for so long. Like, "Why would anybody come look and try to help us now?"

• 6:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, and how fucked the rap community has been, like, to not show love, to be so divided, to act like it's every man for himself. You know, rap is competitive, but at some point, you got to bring it around to where it's supposed to be. And it was funny, like, nothing like this ever existed. It's sort of like, when you were talking to me, I was like, "Why hasn't this happened?" Like, I'm in the right circle of people to be talking about the right thing. And it was almost like it was daring for us to even to do something like this.

• 7:20Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah, well, it's one of those things where I think somebody got to step up at some point. And that's the thing about history in general is, people act like things are inevitable, but they're not. Somebody's got to do something. And that's been the thing that's, you know, once it's done, it's very obvious. But until somebody steps up, it doesn't happen. And actually, I met Caz in New York, kind of right around the first year. And I remember, we had a great conversation, but then, kind of going back and re-understanding how important Caz was. Like, "Steve, let me ask you this. In a different circumstance, in a different kind of timing, how big would it Caz been?"

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Caz, I talked about you after I met you. I speak about you. The fact that you are so charismatic, still, right now.

• 8:17Ben Horowitz?

  Right now?

• 8:17Speaker 01

  That you hold no bitterness in your heart, and you present yourself as a star. I mean, it's clear. If you would have been, I mean, 12 years later, I mean, just forget it. By the way, if you would have actually just got the credit you deserve from the beginning.

• 8:36Ben Horowitz?

  For this song.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  We wouldn't even have to fast forward it 12 years. But I'm just saying that when you walk into a room, it shifts. You have that level of presence and talent and star power. So I think it's definitely ageless, the time period. But it was shocking to me that, again, everybody had known what had happened to Caz.

• 9:00Ben Horowitz?

  It's the original center of hip hop.

• 9:02Speaker 03

  Not enough people knew, though, at the same time.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Not enough people knew, but the right people knew. The industry knew. In the music industry knew that.

• 9:12Ben Horowitz?

  100%.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  The music industry knew. I mean, Caz wrote the rhyme that became rap's delight. I mean, those were his rhymes.

• 9:24Ben Horowitz?

  With his name.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  With his name in the rhymes.

• 9:27Erik Torenberg?

  The first hit.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  And it was stolen. The first hip hop hit was stolen from him, and he didn't get what he deserved. And everybody knew it, but no one ever did anything about it, never said anything about it, didn't give a fuck about it. When we were having our board calls and we were thinking about who we were going to honor, I mean, one of the privileges of having this group of people looking at the cases and deciding who we're going to give the award to. You say certain people's names, and it's unanimous. It's like, it's like, it's like, everybody, it's like, yes. And then, everyone's arguing why their yes is more yes.

• 10:10Speaker 03

  Right.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  Yo, Caz, yes. But you don't understand why I said yes. Because everybody's so delighted that we nailed the person. And then, you meet the person, and then it's so beautiful when they walk in the room.

• 10:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  And I, like, we've been blessed to have honored people who not only deserve it.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  But when they got the phone call, they didn't come in with about time or,

• 10:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  you know, any of that kind of energy. They came in smiled, bright, glowing. You know, I think about Caz and Shante when I, when I just think about, you know,

• 10:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:57Speaker 01

  that, like just glowing. When, when, when Roxanne got the award, and she said, you know, her, her child ever said, her mother, a, a child never said, you know, mom, you see all these, uh, rappers, these female rappers getting all these awards. Don't you ever feel bitter about that? Or you don't feel anything about that? She's like, no, I didn't want that award. I wanted the right award.

• 11:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  Hmm. Paid in full. And I was like,

• 11:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  that's awesome. That's awesome that we were able to do that and, and, and to be able to give these artists that recognition, um, right now. And, and then having the artists

• 11:39Speaker 01

  be a part of voting for the future.

• 11:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yes.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Uh, recipients, right? So Caz is now a recipient and he's part of the committee who's voting for future recipients. And that's the gift that keeps giving about this foundation.

• 11:53Speaker 03

  And Shante is one of the reasons I'm here. You know, um, she's from my neighborhood, same neighborhood. And when she, she released Roxanne's Revenge back in 1984, 1985, she was a kid. Older than me, but a kid. And when I saw that she could be on a radio rapping and, and going after men, it was like, it was like, she was like an activist and beating them. She was like an activist, a woman's activist, you know? And because that was unheard of in hip hop. And when I saw her be that bold and to challenge a whole established rap group and change the course of this whole thing. For me, that was incredibly inspiring, you know?

• 12:38Speaker 03

  Um, so to have her be a part of this, uh, you know, to me is still, is still crazy. You know? I love it.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  For me, um, when I, I was kind of brought in, you know what I mean? Un, un, you know, I had no idea what was going on. I just know somebody that I know from a while back reached out to me. I hadn't heard in, from in years. And that was Quincy, uh, Q D three. And I'm like, Q, what's up, yo? This and that, such and such, like this and that. He was pretty vague, but he was like, I want you to come downtown and, you know what I mean? This and that. And that's when I met Ben and everybody. And I really didn't, wasn't, wasn't fully, you know what I mean? But I, I, I was being vetted to some degree. You know what I mean? We want, we, we want this guy. Let's see what is, you know, let's see where his head is at. Let's see where his attitude, cause I've, I've, I've seen or, or, uh, heard about, you know,

• 13:31Speaker 01

  other people who deserve, but don't, you know what I mean? I, I just, I just came just with, with, with my spirit. And the fact that so many people, these guys had alluded to earlier, had, had brought this up earlier or who brought up the subject. Yo, we should give the old school dudes, you know, a million dollars, you know? I mean, I think Swiss Beast, uh, really made it public.

• 13:55Speaker 03

  Shout out to Swiss.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  First time.

• 13:57Speaker 03

  Not to interrupt you, but I just did, sorry. But I had to say it. Um, when you were saying that, you reminded me of something. I spoke about this in a magazine, I think in the nineties.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 14:10Speaker 03

  Asked what would I do? Or, or, or maybe the year two thousand, they asked a bunch of hip hop artists. And I described this to a T. So I, I just saw, somebody pointed that out to me like last month. That I forgot I even said that.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  You planted this.

• 14:25Speaker 03

  So we all been wanting this type of thing. Sorry to cut you off again, because I just got excited at that memory. And I would debate hip hop with Ben.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:35Speaker 03

  I would debate hip hop with Steve forever. Me and Steve will stop speaking, disagreeing. Me and Ben will analyze the album to death. Ben got with you and sent me a video of your conversation, um, and about Sugar Hill Gang and everything. I couldn't believe that you cared so much being from the Bay about the origin story of some of the greatest hip hop history ever. But I shouldn't have been surprised. But it was just like the care that we have for the culture is, is the same. Like Caz, like I, I talk to you about, uh, history.

• 15:21Speaker 03

  Every time I approach you, I'm stalking you about what happened this year and that year.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  No doubt.

• 15:26Speaker 03

  And the other. So that it's not just, the, the paid in full thing is like a, it's a way that we convinced ourselves that we can be together and we can get together and not just talk about it from afar. We could actually talk to Caz. We could actually be in a room with Rakim. And it's not just this thing that's so spread out. It's bringing us together.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  It, it, it, it feels like a, like a class reunion.

• 15:53Speaker 03

  Um, yes.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  And last year, when Dr. Dre heard about, uh, Payton Ful and decided to come.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  I was in shock that he asked me, could I introduce him to Kumo D? He never met him before.

• 16:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  And I was like, this is, first of all, I would never even think of that.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  You know, not that, you, that, that Dr. Dre never met Kumo D before?

• 16:24Speaker 03

  So Dre did this to me too, in Vegas. He's, he said, could I introduce him to Slick Rick? He never met him before. Yeah.

• 16:34Speaker 03

  Oh my God. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's just a wild, it's, it's, it's, it's wild that it took this foundation to bring these type of people together.

• 16:45Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  And the bond is that strong. The bond is so strong that 25, 30 years removed,

• 16:55Speaker 01

  Dr. Dre, with all of his glory and success, is like, man, could you, could you please introduce me to Slick Rick and Kumo D? But at the same time, that it took this celebration in order to bring these legends together in the same room.

• 17:15Speaker 03

  Agreed.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  To, to create that moment.

• 17:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think the industry itself

• 17:21Speaker 03

  like separates us, you know, by the success, status, you know what I mean? Who's hot, who's signed?

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:28Speaker 03

  Who this and that, you know what I mean? So I, I haven't, if I see Nas, it's like by, by happenstance or something. All these years, you know what I mean? Mutual respect, you know what I mean? But I don't see him all the time. If he reaches out or something as he's did in the past and done a project and say, yo Caz, I want you to be a part, I'm, I'm on it. Automatic, I ain't got to see him or, or none of that. Just say it and I'm there, you know what I mean? Now I see him every year. I can call him on the phone. Steve Stout. You hear about Steve Stout, big businessman? He done made this person rich, he done.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a special moment that is growing every year.

• 18:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  It's growing every year and

• 18:13Speaker 01

  to Caz's point, this idea of separating artists.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  I'm not sure why that happened. I'm not sure if it was the industry doing, the industry's doings on purpose? Or was it just the fact that rap was broken into like old school, new school, this, that, and the third? So they just, it, it was just no connection. But the truth of the matter is that the real artists have respect for the person that they had their poster on their wall.

• 18:44Speaker 03

  Definitely.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  The first CD they bought or the, the first CD, the first tape that they bought. And that respect that inspired either, um, me as a businessman or Nas as an artist or Ben as a businessman, whatever it is, that'll never, ever go away. Like sports heroes, never, it never goes away. And so the foundation acknowledging and celebrating and then bringing this group of people together is something that the industry should have done a long time ago. And like, there's been attempts, like the VH1 thing.

• 19:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, the be, Hip Hop Honors.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Hip Hop Honors.

• 19:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  And it's cool.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  It's not, it's putting a light on it, on these artists. But it's not putting anything in their pockets.

• 19:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:37Speaker 01

  It's not, it's not investing in the artist. It's not making them feel like they've gotten acknowledged for everything that they contributed. That was, that was a point, it was two things. It was starting paid in full, but also Ben investing in United Masters. The idea was like, how do you contribute so much culturally? But yet, the financial take is so meaningless. How does, how do you put, pour so much in and get so little out?

• 20:09Speaker 02

  No respect, I'll tell you.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  You know, and, and, and everybody became comfortable with that idea. They just accepted it as, oh, that's just the way it is.

• 20:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  That's just the way it is. Like meanwhile, you're changing the way people are dressing. You're changing dialect. You're changing so much in the world. And yet, your bank account or acknowledgement for what you've contributed is not even part, it, it, it doesn't add up. It's not, that's not inspiring. And it doesn't incentivize creativity. It doesn't incentivize anything. It incentivizes people to feel like they've been robbed and stolen from.

• 20:51Speaker 03

  Right, right. And, and, and not to cut you off, um, and, and the lyrics of hip hop, we speak about the total opposite. We speak about breaking down barriers. We speak about, um, changing the system. We speak about, uh, love. We speak about, um, being entrepreneurs and taking this thing into our hands and, and keeping it real. But then the action of keeping it real didn't, wasn't happening outside the studio. You, you play a record, this dude sounds like he's the realest ever. Then you see him, he won't speak to you. You see him, he's, you know, he's posted up and he's not talking to you. You see him, you could be like, yo, I need some help. He's looking at you, he's laughing at you. You know what I'm saying? It's, it's, it's a competitiveness to know, to, to the max.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  And it doesn't round up being like what the lyrics said. You hear the lyrics of rap, we, since the beginning, since Caz, uh, was talking what he was talking and inspiring and putting his DNA into this thing. And, and, and bigger groups will come from Caz, uh, and bigger soloists and the rap game will be shifted with what Caz put down. And the lyrics represent one thing, but it, how do we, how are we gonna be real? And we say, well, hip hop, we real, and then the actions are not happening. It's just gonna be on record? It can't just be on record. The whole thing about hip hop is about to grow, to be better. And I think, uh, we are living our lyrics with paid in full.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  And it, it takes the courage of Ben and his wife, Felicia, and, and their foundation.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  To put the money up, um, to match the contribution, um, to be able to, to, to fund something like this. I mean, um, you would think that, or you would hope that it would come from an organization that benefited financially from it.

• 22:47Speaker 03

  You would write the labels.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  One would, one would guess, one would get, one would guess, of cour-, if you just to say, who do you think will help these guys? And it, it, you'd be like, oh, definitely the record company.

• 22:58Speaker 03

  So and so.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  No, this person, that person. It takes somebody, it takes somebody.

• 23:03Ben Horowitz?

  It is hard for me to sell him a ticket.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  It takes.

• 23:06Speaker 03

  It's a crazy rap fan.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 23:08Speaker 03

  Named.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  A crazy rap fan.

• 23:10Speaker 03

  And Felicia.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Um, who is a, um, entrepreneur who, who has deep soul and belief in what, in, in respect for creativity. That made this one of his missions to help solve this and make sure the right guys get properly awarded and, and, and, and the respect they deserve.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  And I think this year, I think this year, all right, I think this year is gonna be a pivotal year for the organization. Um, this is our fourth year and we have a great, great, great, great lineup. It's very well produced. Like you don't walk in, first year, lucky you wasn't there. You know, we were, we were feeling, we were feeling our way through. It was a little long, it was a little this, that and the third. But we learned, like anything else, we learned, refined, got tighter, got smarter. And I think we got it now, um, in year four, where it's gonna be our biggest year.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  And hopefully, this thing, I believe that as well as produced as this show will be, that it's something that we could take, um, wider. At the same time, I'm, I feel like, I want everybody to know around the world what Grandmaster Caz looks like. And, and to celebrate him and applaud this man for what he's done and, and celebrate Roxanne and celebrate, you know, Melly and, and, and the DOC and everybody else who's, you know, had these achievements, these achievements that they've done and contributed so much to their culture that they get a chance to, to, to see their heroes on the, on the platform that they respect.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  I think when you do something big and important, not only in hip hop, but in anything, people are gonna emulate. People are gonna wanna follow it. If they see a formula that works, Ben, you're a testament to this. See a formula that works, you want in and you're gonna wanna try to, you know, do something. And, and a lot of people lost, uh, uh, I don't know, face or whatever, because all of these, nobody did it yet.

• 25:22Ben Horowitz?

  And I, Steve and I have conversations about this kind of thing all the time, but I think in life it's impossible to do anything great if you start with what's possible. You have to start with what's right. And if you start with what's right, then you have a, it may not be possible, but at least you have a chance to do something great. And so, you know, that's always how I came at it. I was like, look, we ought to be able to figure this out. It's not, hip hop's not that big. Like the guys who made the art form are not that many. And so why can't we honor them?

• 26:07Ben Horowitz?

  Like, like it just, it didn't make any sense to me. And then, by the way, I mean, you guys were very kind saying, you know, I wasn't a beneficiary. I'm a big beneficiary of Caz and Nas and Rakim in that they were, you all were the inspiration to my career. And one, what got me through like a very, very difficult times in business, so hard that I wrote like a bestselling book about how hard it was. Uh, and in the book, you know, I had the rap lyrics, which, but in Silicon Valley, I, I actually got a lot of criticism for it. Cause like, what are you doing with hip hop? You know, is that some kind of gimmick and so forth? And I was like, no, this is credit where credit is due. The ideas that I had in business came from those lyrics.

• 26:50Ben Horowitz?

  And that's why the chapters, that's why the idea started with the lyric, cause that's where the idea started. And it was just credit where credit was due. And so it was my, you know, my chance to, in my mind, just do what was right and pay it back. And, uh, you know, look, I'm an entrepreneur. I, I know how to build things. So, you know, building a foundation didn't seem that hard. Yeah, no, I haven't, I, I, if I got pushed back or like people talked about it bad, I don't, I can't even hear it.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  No, he doesn't, he doesn't hear it. And what you do, you bring people, you invite people who would probably be like, have no interest in this topic.

• 27:32Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  And you, and you bring them there. And you know what they do? I've seen it convert.

• 27:38Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Where they, they go there and they're like, I, I'll go, I'll go for Ben. I mean, whatever, I'll go for Ben.

• 27:44Ben Horowitz?

  That's a lot of the ticket.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  It's Ben. Then they go there and they're like, oh shit, I didn't even, even know this, that, that, I didn't know that. And it, and it connects a lot of dots and there's obviously a lot of empathy. How do you not feel empathy for somebody who's invented something?

• 28:00Ben Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  And didn't get what they deserved? And that, and, and, but we don't.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  The theme of the night isn't that. The theme of the night isn't get what you deserve. That's the underlying foundational truth. And on top of that, we celebrate the fact that you are getting now what you deserve. You are getting the acknowledgement you and the light put on you in a white way. By a bunch of people who respect you and that you would chose to do it. I mean, come on, man. Last year, I met my man Grand Poobah for so long. To see Poobah up there.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  That made me feel so proud to have a, you know, like, why would he? You'll skip that. It's easy to skip it. It's just like, oh, no, not that. And you got Grand Poobah.

• 28:50Speaker 03

  At one point, the greatest rapper.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Oh, by the way, did it over three different? It's funny about rap. I don't know if you, eras. Like, it's not like decades, but eras could be four years.

• 29:03Speaker 03

  Right.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  It could be a four year where it just changed. And if you don't even, if you're not part of it, you don't even realize how fast it changes. Right, so.

• 29:11Speaker 03

  Masses of ceremony. Brand Nubian.

• 29:15Speaker 01

  Poobah.

• 29:15Speaker 03

  Solo career.

• 29:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, solo career.

• 29:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  Three eras. Three, he went through three eras.

• 29:20Speaker 03

  Crazy.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  And got through that and got to the other side. Very few artists had done that. Um, and those changes during that period of time were drastic. Like, it was like, you were out there. A lot of our favorite artists couldn't jump that fence. And they got stuck on the other side. And then you, all of a sudden, you're considered old school or you're considered washed or considered not dope anymore, whatever the thing was. And Grand Poobah did that. No one's gonna sit and then to turn around and watch this man go on stage and get his props? No one else is gonna do that. And no one else is gonna put the time in to have the people that understand that nuance. It's easy to write a check.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  You have people write checks of things and. Yeah, like, they check that box.

• 30:10Speaker 03

  Right, it's love.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it's, we're, the check is being written and there's so much time going into making sure we get it right.

• 30:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, because of the love. And in the room, there's love. Even if you didn't think you'd be walking in a room like that. You think it's gonna be like some type of typical award show or something like that. It's genuine love. It's no egos. Nobody's putting their chest out in front of nobody. Doesn't matter if it's a billionaires over there and over here at that table and that table. Everybody's here on, on a real, uh, uh, thing of learning what's happening on the stage. You're getting, you're being educated. And then we're talking about our man Quincy Jones, who I spent a lot of time with, with Ben, uh, before he passed and then QD3 being there.

• 31:02Speaker 03

  And we're getting to see a Quincy Jones Award happen through this. Cause Quincy, had he been here, he would have been a part of this.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 31:09Speaker 03

  Right? And, and we get this, last year, George Clinton went, he did, he brought the mothership. He did, he did a mothership thing for us and it was just mind blowing to see him reciting Rakim's lyrics to Follow the Leader. This is George Clinton. He is the out of space guy. He is the guy who shifted music. And then him reciting at 83 years old, Rakim's lyrics on stage. This is like, this is a room of love on another level.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Well, let me, to, to, to, to the Quincy Jones Award. Quincy Jones, obvious legend. The legend of legends, the triple O G, the, you know, the, the foundation of it all. No disrespect, but the Grammys botched his.

• 31:55Speaker 03

  Botched it.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  Botched his celebration.

• 31:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  The idea for the Quincy Jones Award was literally because of how bad the Grammys did it. It wasn't like we thought we had to check that box. We couldn't believe they got that wrong. They didn't, they didn't, they didn't pay tribute to this man properly. To the point that his son was like, QD3 was like, let's do this. And now it's part of what we do in the foundation on an annual basis. That's love.

• 32:32Speaker 03

  Can we say who the new, uh, recipient of the Quincy Jones Award is?

• 32:38Ben Horowitz?

  We gotta let Steve say it, cause she worked so hard on it.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 32:45Ben Horowitz?

  Such a funny story.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  We're not, we're not gonna get into the detail of that story, but, um, I mean.

• 32:51Speaker 03

  But who?

• 32:52Speaker 01

  Nile Rodgers, man.

• 32:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  How do you, Nile Rodgers?

• 32:55Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  This is great. Nile Rodgers, who came up with a guitar lick that's been used, that's been used.

• 33:03Speaker 03

  Times.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  By the way, I mean, hip hop.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  Dance. That's just hip hop connection.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  That's his hip hop connection.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  Look at Sheik, look at all the.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  Sister Sledge, look, I mean, go down the, the myriad.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  Everything, everything.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  Songs he's produced.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  All the way up to Get Lucky.

• 33:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  For Daft, I mean, for Daft Punk, he's that guy. You know what I'm saying? So, boom, so we got Nile Rodgers this year getting the Quincy Jones Award. So, what we're doing is obviously, we're making sure within our purview, whether it's old school hip hop or, you know, Quincy Jones, who should have gotten celebrated a little bit more properly with his Grammys. That we're making a contribution to make sure we get it right. We're holding ourselves accountable to get it right. This is obviously a big thing to do. Because you got families, estates, uh, um, other artists looking at this.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  Do, you know, a side eye, like, are these, are these, is this real? Is this going away anytime soon? Is this another facade? What are they selling on the back of this? They must be selling T-shirts out the trunk. Right?

• 34:20Speaker 03

  Yo, I called Koo Rock Ski from the Fat Boys and like, yo, man, we want you in this. And I think for, for a second, he didn't think it was real.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I heard. I ain't gonna lie to you, he was there last year. He had an award and didn't think it was real. He walked off the stage not thinking it was real.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  Right, right, right.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  What did Koo G Rap say?

• 34:38Speaker 02

  You called G Rap?

• 34:39Speaker 01

  Jump out.

• 34:40Speaker 03

  G Rap was very, very appreciative. G Rap, I called him, he was very appreciative. I mean, one of the greatest MCs of all time, man. One of my biggest inspirations. And then when people come, again, it's love, man. It's, it's real love, you know? It's, it's your time, it's your show. We're here for you. And I think it's, it's surprising for them to feel like, it's not, it's nothing like, like you said, we're not selling shirts out in the back, we're not, this is not for us. It gives us joy that we, we're doing this, but it's, it's beautiful to see these people show up and, and be appreciated and, and shown the love.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  So Nile, you just talked about the ego thing. Of course it is. I mean, first of all, at the end, you start going crazy on the mic, right? I mean, you and Mo D last year.

• 35:33Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Y'all go crazy on the mic. So that's still there. Let, let's, let's be clear. It's a celebration, but that part, the part, the part jam part is not going anywhere.

• 35:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  But like, because there's so much ego in rap, at least in this moment, in this room, it comes down to the point where Ice Cube came two years ago.

• 35:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:56Speaker 01

  And he says, I wouldn't even put out an album until I listened to what Scarface had to say. I knew, you remember when he said this?

• 36:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, hell yeah.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  He's like, I knew before I dropped anything, I'd have to make sure what this guy was saying. You would never hear.

• 36:13Speaker 03

  Scarface came after Cube.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, Scarface came after Cube.

• 36:17Speaker 03

  But when Scarface came.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  Woo. And to watch Scarface and Rakim acknowledge each other's writing skills, oh.

• 36:27Speaker 03

  Yo, dude, that's like.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  If you love hip hop, if you, by the way, if you love, if you love hip hop. If you're watching this and love hip hop. You gotta know to have Rakim and Scarface have a conversation about writing and respect.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  That they have for each other in a real, pure way is you talking about two of the greatest writers in anything.

• 36:55Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  I don't give a fuck what it is.

• 36:57Ben Horowitz?

  Yes, anything.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  In anything, having a real discussion about.

• 37:02Ben Horowitz?

  And every hip hop guy in the world before or since would acknowledge what you said.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Nobody would even.

• 37:09Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Some of the greatest writers of all.

• 37:11Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  In hip hop, Scarface and Rakim, like not even a question, nothing to discuss.

• 37:18Ben Horowitz?

  Nothing to discuss.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  And they're discussing it for the first time at Paid in Full. That's how special this room is.

• 37:24Ben Horowitz?

  Okay, let me give the plug. PaidinFullFoundation.org. You can come and be a part of it. And Felicia and I match every donation two and a half to one, which means that all your money goes to the artist. There are no paid employees at the foundation. Everything is volunteer. And so, you know, if you want to be part of it, if you want to contribute, PaidinFullFoundation.org. And that's my plug. And I want to ask Caz.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  That was pretty good. It was like a radio.

• 38:00Ben Horowitz?

  Thank you. Caz, we've been talking about it, but like being a recipient, what has it meant to you from an honor standpoint, from a financial standpoint? Like, how did it affect you? You know, tell us from that side.

• 38:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I definitely was going to address that at some point because it's not specifics. You know what I mean? Like, yo, this and that, this one gets that, this one gets that. It's like you get a grant, you know what I mean? So to speak, and it's over a five year period. And it's helped change my life. You know what I mean? I was on a path to, you know, for self-improvement and trying to get things that, you know, LL Cool J called me a few years back and was like, yo, it's time. I want you on the radio. You know what I mean? But when Paid in Full called me, you know what I mean? It was like, yo, now this is going to change your life. I bought a house.

• 39:02Ben Horowitz?

  Wow.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? I moved out.

• 39:04Ben Horowitz?

  So projects.

• 39:05Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying? And I've lived in the Bronx all my life.

• 39:09Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  I only did a three year stint in Cali for a while, but I lived in the Bronx all my life. And I thought I would always, I would end up here. And the last thoughts in my head for the last like 10, 15 years, I don't want to die in the projects.

• 39:23Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:24Speaker 02

  I don't want to, I don't want to end here. I don't want it to end here. And it didn't. And it's not. You know what I mean? I got a nice house in Pennsylvania. You know what I'm saying? Me and my wife. And my life has improved drastically. I got a comfort, you know, I got like a cushion that I never had. You know what I mean? Everything was day to day, everything was run out, grind, hustle. And when people see me and they see my passion, they see my, you know what I mean? This nigga still got it. He's still doing it because I have to. I didn't have no, you know what I mean? Hip hop don't have social security. You know what I mean? Hip hop don't have no health benefits or none of that. You have to work.

• 40:09Speaker 02

  You got to stay out there. For me, anyway, I got to keep working. So when you see me on the radio, you see me doing park jams, you see me doing hip hop sightseeing tours and all, all that was to maintain, to keep me up and at it. And I think my attitude that went along with it and the way that I deal with people kept me in people's consciousness. You know what I mean? Which I'm so fucking grateful for. You know what I mean? And like I said, I can't speak for everybody, but I'm sure what it's done for me, it's done for everybody. You know what I mean? I know one thing I want to say, and I don't want to say which person, but we was talking about some people didn't know if it was a scam or whatever.

• 40:51Speaker 02

  You know, a couple people thought it was like, yo, I don't, I don't need this, like I'm good. You know what I mean? You know, like a hand, like I don't need nobody to give me. Nah, it's not about that. It's not all about that. That ain't about that. That's, that's a part of it. Yeah, I mean, the thing is the honor. The thing is putting you in the light that you deserve to be in. And I got to salute LL Cool J for that too. You know what I mean? He, he put us, me, he put Sha Rock on the radio when he didn't have to. He didn't have to. And he created a whole lane. He's like, nah, that's y'all. Go. Monday through Friday, y'all on the air. You know what I mean? So that kind of recognition, it resonates.

• 41:36Speaker 02

  And when people see important people giving you your props, they feel obligated like.

• 41:42Speaker 03

  Yo, I gotta say that what this does is what, how you just ended it is it brings recognition. And that's the gift that keeps giving because it's done out of love and it kind of inspires more people to think that, you know, we can do things like this too. We can, we got to remember, let's take care of each other. I'll say this, I was getting reached out to by a few hip hop artists for a while. I probably the later end of the nineties on, and I would do things for different artists and won't say it, I won't even mention the names, even up to someone who passed away

• 42:27Speaker 03

  recently, a musical hip hop producer, whatever. Like, I was there and, you know, I wonder how many more of us were doing that, but it's on the low. This is on the high.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 42:42Speaker 03

  This is on the high on an even bigger level and that, that it's, you can show it. You can show the world, we're taking care of our own. We're taking care of the thing that took care of us. In Ben's book, he has pieces of lyrics, in one of his books, he has pieces of lyrics that inspired him. These things are important because if we forget, if we sweep it all under the rug, if you don't know that Poobah took Hilfinger to another level, if you don't know.

• 43:15Ben Horowitz?

  Sprite?

• 43:15Speaker 03

  Sprite.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  Son of a.

• 43:17Speaker 03

  He, what, say this.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Come on, man.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  The fashion industry, period.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  By the way, that's exactly why I wrote The Tanning of America. It was specifically so that all of the things that hip hop created.

• 43:28Speaker 03

  In your book, when you talk about at the concert, at the Run DMC concert.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  I go from.

• 43:32Speaker 03

  When everybody holds up their Adidas, what that did for Adidas.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  What it did for Adidas when he.

• 43:39Ben Horowitz?

  Adidas was kind of dead at the time.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  Dead.

• 43:42Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  2% market share in America.

• 43:46Ben Horowitz?

  2%.

• 43:46Speaker 02

  2% market share in America and three quarters of that 2% was coming from the Northeast region. And all they knew is that why is everybody up there buying this one specific SKU and why are they throwing away the shoelaces?

• 43:58Speaker 01

  Hip hop, baby.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  But the, but Poobah, obey your thirst is his line. First things first, obey your thirst. That's his line. That's their tagline.

• 44:13Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Like, no one would ever pay attention to these things. These guys are pioneers above and beyond hip hop. They created the culture around the music that lives on to this day. The fashion, the language, the brands that have only exist as a result of their contribution. I love Tommy Hilfiger. Tommy Hilfiger is a great guy. He's done a lot with artists. He should be part of, you know, contributing to Paid in Full. If it wasn't for hip hop, for sure, he was dead in the water. They were selling ties.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  He says that. They were actually, he was selling ties. He was trying to be Ralph Lauren. And they were like, you're not Ralph Lauren, dawg. And on his way, and listen, on his way home, because he lived in Greenwich, when you leave the, when you leave the city, you can obviously, you can get to Greenwich by the traditional way, taking the highway, or you can cut through Harlem and get up to Westchester. So he's cutting through Harlem and he's seen everybody wearing their pants low and their Calvin Klein, top of their Calvin Klein brief show. And literally, that's where he got the idea to make underwear and use that, where would Calvin, the.

• 45:42Speaker 03

  Tommy.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  Top, yeah.

• 45:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:43Speaker 02

  Put Tommy there, the top of the underwear, whatever the shit is called.

• 45:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, the waistband.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  The elastic band. And he put Tommy Hilfiger there and made the waistband bigger, thicker, so that you could, you could really see it. And that's how the whole thing got going. Seriously. That's literally, and he talks about, and he'd seen it driving through Harlem.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 46:06Speaker 02

  And that's, and that's when the brand took off and went from, you know, selling ties that wasn't working to now selling streetwear, the hottest fashion trend in the world, streetwear that Louis Vuitton sells, designed by Skateboard P. You know what I'm saying? God bless and Virgil. Like, and these, these are the things that these guys have been a part of contributing.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 46:33Speaker 02

  That they never got their fair share of. And by the way.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  What we're doing is us, we're just trying to get momentum. We're not trying to solve the world's problem here.

• 46:49Speaker 03

  Right, right, right.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  We need others to either come and donate to the organization for sure.

• 46:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  Or start other organizations that also have the same motive to help, celebrate, give back to the guys who have helped contribute to your business. Contribute to you, inspire you. That's the, you know, some real, with, with love and respect.

• 47:13Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  With love and respect.

• 47:15Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 47:18Ben Horowitz?

  And actually, on that, I want to tell a story because the, the love and respect part goes beyond even the award. So Scarface had a heart condition. And, you know, look, he comes from a place where people don't even really go to the doctor, let alone go in for open heart surgery, which is what he needed. And he was on the phone with my wife, Felicia, and she knew he was scared. And she flew out to Houston to see him, you know, before he went to the doctor. And he didn't want to go in. And he's like, no, I don't want to go to the doctor. I'm not going to the doctor. And she said, nah. And he calls her the bully.

• 48:03Ben Horowitz?

  She's about five feet tall, weighs maybe a buck o' five. And she says, no, I'm taking you to the doctor right now. And right as they got into the doctor, his aorta burst. And they got him in just in time and saved his life. And that doesn't happen without her caring so much about him. And a lot of what the foundation is about, because she runs it, she's the president, is how much she cares about these artists and how much, you know, she's committed to taking care of them regardless, regardless. Like, forget the award, forget what the actual contract is and all that kind of thing.

• 48:48Ben Horowitz?

  She's going to do that work. And that, that creates the whole culture of the thing, which is why that feeling at the award is so different.

• 48:57Speaker 03

  Agreed. I have, I have to say that and I have to, you know, definitely kudos to Felicia.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Nothing more serious than that.

• 49:04Speaker 03

  She makes it, she makes it, you know, like it's love involved here.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:09Speaker 03

  And like, it's like beyond the award, beyond the check, you know what I mean? It's not over. You'll get a call, how are you doing? How's your wife? You know what I mean? Oh, she's sick? Just give me her address. She sends, the next day, flowers come, you know what I mean? The next day, like some glasses from some Dior glasses come in the mail. That's how Felicia is. And it's not about what's going on. She'll randomly call you just to check on you and see if everything's good. And that's the difference between this and anything I've ever experienced. In an award, grant, founded, or anything like that. You know, the love, the genuine love. I don't know, I just can't speak enough about the event that's coming up, the next Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards. It's going to be monumental.

• 49:54Speaker 03

  And if you haven't been abreast of what's going on with Paid in Full, definitely check in, okay, this year. And then look back at what we've done in the past four years, all right? And then get on board. Don't play with it, stay with it. Yeah.

• 50:08Ben Horowitz?

  Yes, sir.

• 50:09Erik Torenberg?

  Nas, Steve, I'm curious if you could talk about, when was the moment you knew that you and Ben were going to be friends for life?

• 50:16Speaker 01

  Steve invited me to a dinner years ago.

• 50:20Ben Horowitz?

  That's crazy.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  And, oh, wait. Oh, yeah, it was an interesting room of people, right? He put together a great room, great restaurant.

• 50:31Speaker 03

  It was Mr. Charles downtown.

• 50:32Ben Horowitz?

  Mr. Charles, half by Freddy.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  So this room was dope, right? And he put this together. And I heard about Ben through him. And I met Ben right there. And, you know, just our love for music and, and love for food was, was a thing that kind of, that connected me, me and Ben at that point. And we just, we've just been cool since then.

• 50:58Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah, we're, some of my best times, listening to Rakim with Nas. By the way, Nas hears things in Rakim's songs that nobody else hears. It's, it's like unbelievable. And then listening to Prince, we listen to Prince together.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:15Ben Horowitz?

  And then doing.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  We break it down.

• 51:16Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah, and going to visit 300G Quincy Jones together. But just, you know, music fans who just, Nas is like, as great an artist as he is, he's that great a music fan.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  By the way, I was at Quincy's, Quincy's house when he just moved into the, the house. Or redecorated the house, rather. And it was me and Chris Tucker. And he goes and he shows, he was showing us the, um, the rehearsal tape, the, the casting tapes for, um,

• 51:51Speaker 03

  Color Purple?

• 51:51Speaker 01

  Color Purple, right? He's showing us, and there was Whoopi Goldberg.

• 52:00Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  And she's talking, she's just talking to camera like this, whatever, whatever. And then she starts reading the script and then within a second starts crying. I was like, it was the first time I seen acting. And I was like, oh, I mean, I knew for a fact, this is fucking a skill that is beyond. She was like, like regular, normal talking. And he said, all right, and Steven Spielberg's holding the camera. This is that. And boom, she just starts crying. So anyhow.

• 52:29Ben Horowitz?

  Yeah, she was great in that role.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, so she just starts crying. So anyhow, Chris Tucker, we all were blown away by just like that, that fact that she did that. And we started talking about a bunch of different shit. And I talked about bringing up Nas. And Nas' dad, Oludara. Yo, this guy gets up and Quincy Jones, at, at that age, was still moving very quickly. Like he, he was like a very, like a quick guy. Quickly went and go grab, went to a bunch of vinyls and came back with pictures. And he showed me a picture of Nas, of him with Nas' dad in Saint-Tropez in the 60s.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  I was like, holy shit. Like, I knew Nas' dad was, like, obviously a jazz legend. But I didn't know at what level it was that these guys were running around.

• 53:30Speaker 03

  He tells me, he would tell me stories of people he'd been around, but I didn't listen. I'm like, ah, yeah, okay, pop. Yeah, my pop told me about M. Toomey. The song Juicy came out. He's like, yeah, that's my man. I'm like, come on, you probably met him in passing, you know what I'm saying? I ain't thinking nothing about it. What year was that, 83, 84 or something? I got into the rap game and I met M. Toomey and he's like, yo, your dad is my man. And I said, you know, I didn't believe him when he told me that. Not that he's a liar or anything, but I didn't know it was like, y'all were like that. He was like, that's my guy, man. I was like, yo, you don't understand, Juicy Fruit was the biggest song in the world. So how could I believe that at the time? I'm a kid, I don't know.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  I think he's just trying to make me feel good or something like that. But he knows, he knew a lot of people, even when he was younger, man. And Quincy was, Quincy knew everybody.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  That's going to be.

• 54:24Ben Horowitz?

  Everybody.

• 54:25Speaker 03

  No, no, no, that's definitely going to be him.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  Everybody, everybody know, your kids, yeah, we know. The fact that Olul, now, you got to understand, like, like in anything else, you know, the DNA thing, right? Your, your dad's a famous football player, right? The son, this, I didn't know, I mean, obviously I know Nas is a brilliant artist. I had no idea the connection was that his dad was that level of brilliant. I thought his dad, I didn't know, I didn't know it was that level of brilliant that Quincy Jones, within a second, go find a picture of them together. And I'm like, these guys were in Saint-Tropez in the 60s doing their thing?

• 55:08Speaker 01

  The whole thing was like profound to me, that whole evening of going from the Color Purple to, to Oludara. And then reflecting on the fact that Nas comes from this great lineages of, lineage of talent.

• 55:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, they come from Mississippi, my pops. He comes from Natchez, Mississippi, and his dad was in a, a band. And it, it just, it just, music in the family. Yeah.

• 55:32Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 55:33Ben Horowitz?

  It's crazy.

• 55:34Speaker 01

  So one more time, Paid in Full.

• 55:36Ben Horowitz?

  Paidinfullfoundation.org. All your money goes directly to the artists.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  Two and a half times.

• 55:42Speaker 03

  Put up that bread.

• 55:43Ben Horowitz?

  We mentioned two and a half times to one. And it is, everybody who's ever been to it will tell you, it's the greatest charitable event in the world. Like, there's nothing like it. It's, you will, I guarantee, nobody's ever gone and not had a great time. And, and a time that's, will be a memory for the rest of your life.

• 56:05Speaker 03

  Ooh, ooh, right.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  That's right, that's in fact.

• 56:08Speaker 03

  All right.

• 56:09Erik Torenberg?

  Thank you, guys, that was great.

• 56:13Erik Torenberg?

  Thanks for listening to this episode of the A16Z Podcast. If you liked this episode, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, leave us a rating or review, and share it with your friends and family. For more episodes, go to YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. Follow us on X at A16Z and subscribe to our Substack at A16Z.substack.com. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you in the next episode. As a reminder, the content here is for informational purposes only, should not be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice, or be used to evaluate any investment or security, and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any A16Z fund. Please note that A16Z and its affiliates may also maintain investments in the companies discussed in this podcast.

• 56:58Erik Torenberg?

  For more details, including a link to our investments, please see A16Z.com/disclosures.