Pod Insights Science Vs Semen Retention: Should You Stop Ejaculating? About this episode With “No Nut November” right around the corner, it's time to ask: What are the benefits of saving your seed and not ejaculating? People say that it'll boost your testosterone, giving you better libido — and even making your skin glow. Some say you'll feel like a beast, your energy is gonna be insane and it'll even improve the quality of your sperm. Is all this true?? And are there any risks when it comes to leaving your nut unbusted? We speak to urologist and andrologist Dr. Justin Dubin and reproductive endocrinologist and fertility specialist Dr. Brent Hanson, alongside special guest comedian Suren Jayemanne.
Find our transcript here: https://bit.ly/ScienceVsSemenRetention
In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) The idea behind saving your seed
(07:43) The idea of semen retention is huge online
(09:52) Can semen retention bump up your testosterone?
(15:45) Can semen retention improve mood and athletic performance?
(23:22) Can semen retention improve your sperm quality?
This episode was produced by Wendy Zukerman, with help from Michelle Dang, Meryl Horn, Rose Rimler, and Ekedi Fausther-Keeys. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact checking by Erica Akiko Howard. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Emma Munger, So Wylie, Peter Leonard, Bumi Hidaka and Bobby Lord. A big thanks to Joseph Lavelle Wilson and the Zukerman family.
Science Vs is a Spotify Studios Original. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us and tap the bell for episode notifications.
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Transcript 7,868 words · 15 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Wendy Zukerman? Hi, I'm Wendy Zukerman, you're listening to Science Versus. Today on the show, we're pitting facts against fapping.
0:08 Wendy Zukerman? That's right, with No Nut November just around the corner, we thought it was a great time to ask, what are the benefits of saving your seed and not ejaculating?
0:23 Wendy Zukerman? And this is something that former tax accountant and current comedian, and also my friend, Suren Jaimana, has been curious about for a little while now. Hi, Suren.
0:34 Speaker 01 Hello.
0:36 Wendy Zukerman? How do you feel about being introduced as a sort of semen retention curious?
0:41 Speaker 01 Oh, I thought you were gonna say as a former tax accountant. Um, yeah, that's correct.
0:46 Wendy Zukerman? Now, for those who are uninitiated, semen retention, I've now become very familiar with this term, but it basically means you retain your semen, you keep it in, you don't release it.
0:59 Speaker 01 Yes.
0:59 Wendy Zukerman? When did you start getting curious about semen retention?
1:03 Speaker 01 Well, yes, I guess more recently, as I've sort of delved into like meditation and more kind of yoga, or I would say Tantra type stuff, which is like Hindu kind of, I guess, philosophy.
1:18 Wendy Zukerman? Uh huh.
1:18 Speaker 01 And Tantra in the West, we think of it as very sex oriented, but it's actually just kind of like ritualistic ways to build meditation and practise that kind of stuff. A lot of those eastern philosophies are based on energy and like, is there, are you leaking energy?
1:34 Wendy Zukerman? Uh huh, is ejaculating leaking energy?
1:36 Speaker 01 And I guess that at a very high level, this is the stuff that you make people with. So it's like the creative force of life.
1:43 Wendy Zukerman? Yes.
1:44 Speaker 01 And then if you're just kind of wasting it.
1:46 Wendy Zukerman? Giving it to a sock.
1:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, giving it to a sock.
1:49 Wendy Zukerman? It's funny because it is true that for... Thousands of years, men in particular have been conflicted over whether to fap or not to fap.
1:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, right.
1:58 Wendy Zukerman? And for some in the ancient world, semen was seen as this powerful thing. Sometimes this great powerful thing that could do super impressive stuff. Like apparently the Sumerian god Enki came and that's how we got the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.
2:13 Speaker 01 Yeah, okay.
2:13 Wendy Zukerman? And because, but then on the other hand, it's like this conflict that we've had for so long. Cause then you've got Hippocrates and Daoist mystical practitioners. And then the 18th century, we've got philosophers and the 19th century, we've got American doctors. All on team cock block, saying that things like masturbation and losing your semen weaken a man's body and brain.
2:35 Speaker 01 It's, it is quite funny actually throughout history, how much it's like all these big thinkers. And this is, it's occupying a lot of space.
2:43 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah, and a lot of these ideas are still out there.
2:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:47 Wendy Zukerman? When you go online and it was very interesting, there, there are just loads of guys out there.
2:52 Speaker 01 Loads is probably the wrong word. You don't want, you're telling.
2:55 Wendy Zukerman? Or is it the right, the right word? Who are kind of talking about their journeys into this world and how excited they are about being able to retain their semen and how you could come along on the journey too.
3:09 Speaker 02 How to start semen retention, all right guys? Bruh, these are the results of one month of semen retention.
3:15 Speaker 03 We're gonna make it until the end of this year, no sex, no porn, no masturbation, none of that. I ended up relapsing on day 96, but I'm 14 days clean.
3:25 Speaker 04 So guys, I just reached one year of semen retention. Yes, I didn't bust a single nut in over one year.
3:34 Speaker 01 The theme that's emerging there is it sound, they're almost sound, it's like, it's like Alcoholics Anonymous. Or it's like wankers anonymous, isn't it?
3:40 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah.
3:40 Speaker 01 Yeah. It's been 16 days since my last fap.
3:43 Wendy Zukerman? And you can, you can watch video after video of folks who are really struggling, but wanna keep this going.
3:50 Speaker 03 And I ain't gonna even lie, bro. I was so distraught. I was just moving around, like I was just so frustrated and I'm like, man, I just wanna. I just wanna jack my dick off right now, man. I just, but I, I know the perks that come with semen retention.
4:01 Wendy Zukerman? Because the perks that come with not coming are apparently amazing. I mean, you hear people's guys saying that mentally you just feel like you're better.
4:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, great.
4:15 Speaker 02 Bro, I became a beast. Feel more confidence, I feel more energy, I feel more magnetic. Bro, your energy gonna be insane. And you could do a hundred pushups in a workout, do whatever the fuck you want with so much energy. And you're not gonna have any anxiety or stress.
4:30 Wendy Zukerman? And it's not just your mind, but all through your body, people say they are feeling these benefits.
4:36 Speaker 05 Higher testosterone, better libido, better erection. Your skin glows, your voice gets deep.
4:44 Speaker 01 That's pretty good.
4:45 Wendy Zukerman? Right, on top of all of this, some say that when you do eventually decide to jerk off, the sperm coming out of you is gonna be like out of control, best quality sperm.
4:58 Speaker 01 Really?
4:58 Wendy Zukerman? You've ever produced.
4:59 Speaker 01 See, that was something that I would think would be the opposite.
5:02 Wendy Zukerman? And there's actually, I was sort of surprised, but do I wanna call it groundbreaking science on this? I think I do.
5:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, okay.
5:09 Wendy Zukerman? I think I do. On the flip side, there are other people who are then saying it's actually risky to not ejaculate.
5:17 Speaker 01 Okay.
5:18 Wendy Zukerman? Um, so one headline screamed, doctor issues warning against men taking part in No Nut November. Another says, quote, shocking research shows what happens to your body if you stop masturbating forever.
5:33 Speaker 01 Oh, okay, yeah, forever.
5:35 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah.
5:36 Speaker 01 That is.
5:36 Wendy Zukerman? That's a lot.
5:37 Speaker 01 These people are counting up from zero.
5:40 Speaker 01 They're not counting back from infinity.
5:42 Wendy Zukerman? So that's the account in you.
5:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
5:44 Wendy Zukerman? Right. So today on the show, we are gonna find out, one, if you stop ejaculating for a period of time, does it bump up your testosterone, improving your mind and body, making you feel like a beast? You were very excited about that idea.
5:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, I like that idea, yeah.
5:59 Wendy Zukerman? Two, will it boost the quality of your sperm? And three, are there any risks to holding it in?
6:05 Speaker 01 Okay.
6:07 Wendy Zukerman? And I do want to say that some folks who practise semen retention do it to break what they call an addiction to porn or sex. And we're not going to get into that too deeply into this episode because we've got enough to cover.
6:19 Speaker 01 We've got enough to cover, great.
6:21 Wendy Zukerman? So when it comes to semen retention, there's a lot of folks saying,
6:24 Speaker 01 Bro, I became obese.
6:27 Wendy Zukerman? But then, there's science.
6:32 Speaker 01 Beautiful.
6:32 Wendy Zukerman? All right. You're not coming up after the break. Do you know when I wrote that?
6:39 Speaker 01 Oh, that one was written.
6:40 Wendy Zukerman? That one was written. And I didn't realise how awkward, I like, I almost wasn't going to say it. And then I was like, say it.
6:46 Speaker 01 I wish he didn't look me in the eyes, to be honest, but.
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8:09 Wendy Zukerman? Welcome back. Today on the show, should you try to not come for maybe a month? Give No Nut November a go. I'm here with comedian and semen retention curious.
8:20 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, let's say that. Yeah.
8:22 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah. Siran Jaimana.
8:23 Speaker 01 Also, No Nut November, I'm like, cause as an anaphylactic, I thought that was something completely different.
8:32 Speaker 01 I thought that was a different thing altogether.
8:34 Wendy Zukerman? You've never heard of No Nut November?
8:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, I know, but I thought it was like, let's raise awareness about allergies, guys.
8:42 Wendy Zukerman? I just thought everyone knew No Nut November, where you don't ejaculate for November.
8:47 Speaker 01 Okay.
8:47 Wendy Zukerman? That's the idea.
8:48 Speaker 01 Makes sense.
8:49 Wendy Zukerman? Should you do it?
8:49 Speaker 01 Yep, I get it.
8:50 Wendy Zukerman? My first question was a fairly naive one. I asked it to Justin Dubin, a urologist and andrologist at Memorial Healthcare System in Florida. What's the faf in no faf?
9:02 Speaker 07 See, you gotta be deep in the internet for some of this stuff. Fortunately, I have had the time.
9:09 Wendy Zukerman? Bring me in. Put me in, coach.
9:12 Speaker 07 Faf is this idea of masturbation, or faf is like the noise that you make when you masturbate or have sex, right?
9:18 Wendy Zukerman? Got it.
9:20 Wendy Zukerman? Did you, I mean, I knew faf meant masturbation, but I didn't know it was the noise.
9:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, neither did I.
9:26 Wendy Zukerman? Justin, our urologist, being deep in the internet several years ago, he started noticing a lot of stuff in, on social media about the benefits of not ejaculating. And so he asked his mentors.
9:37 Speaker 07 Hey, did you ever hear of this thing called semen retention? It's all over the internet. They're like, no. And these are guys who have been in the game for 30 years, right? No one knew what the hell that was. And I was like, we gotta look into it.
9:50 Wendy Zukerman? So he does, Justin starts this study where he and his colleague basically scroll TikTok and Instagram, looking at how many people are talking about this and exactly what are they saying? And there was just so much stuff out there that Justin said he was actually quite overwhelmed.
10:06 Speaker 07 Oh, I was going crazy. I was watching hours and hours and hours of these videos. I was, I was texting my friends and my colleagues at the time. I was like, man, I think I gotta go see a therapist.
10:19 Wendy Zukerman? And by the way, they weren't just looking at semen retention. They were also looking at other men's health topics like male infertility and erectile dysfunction.
10:26 Speaker 07 All of us were surprised to see that by far semen retention was the most popular topic being talked about with over 1 billion with a B views.
10:39 Wendy Zukerman? Wow.
10:41 Speaker 07 Really, really insanely popular. And by far, the data which was semen retention was the least accurate.
10:51 Wendy Zukerman? Really saying something, right?
10:53 Speaker 01 Yeah. Well, I guess that makes sense because if these doctors in that field haven't heard of it, who's been doing the science?
11:01 Wendy Zukerman? Who's talking about it? Yeah, Justin said it was a lot of young, young guys.
11:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:06 Wendy Zukerman? So, all right, so we're going to give some accurate information about semen retention.
11:10 Speaker 01 Great.
11:10 Wendy Zukerman? Starting with, can it bump up your testosterone and make you feel amazing? And so over and over again, online, you see people quoting this one study to supposedly prove this point, that if you hold on to your semen, you don't ejaculate, it'll bump up testosterone. And here's what the study did. I love that researchers did this study. They got 10 men to have a wank.
11:32 Speaker 01 Yep.
11:33 Wendy Zukerman? To orgasm at precisely 4:30 PM on the first day of the experiment.
11:38 Speaker 01 Okay.
11:38 Wendy Zukerman? Then the men were told to abstain from any type of sexual activity for the next 20 days. How do you think you'd go, 20 days?
11:46 Speaker 01 Um, yeah, fine, probably.
11:49 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah.
11:49 Speaker 01 I feel like it would probably be out of my hands a little bit.
11:52 Wendy Zukerman? Right. Oh, it's very much in your head.
11:54 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, true. I could, I mean, 20 days without masturbating, I think I could do.
11:59 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah, yeah. So, okay, so on day 21, they come into the lab. Oh, literally, they go, they go to masturbate. And throughout this experiment, like on day, on day one, day 21, before and after the wanks, researchers are measuring their testosterone levels. They also asked the men about their levels of sexual arousal.
12:20 Speaker 01 Uh huh.
12:21 Wendy Zukerman? And so what did they find? After no fapping for 20 days, the men were more aroused. They also said that once they had an orgasm in the lab. It felt more intense and it was longer.
12:34 Speaker 01 Okay.
12:34 Wendy Zukerman? It was sort of like a better orgasm.
12:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:36 Wendy Zukerman? Which Justin says checks out.
12:39 Speaker 07 I think it makes sense. I think if you are, you know, it's the anticipation build up. You know, delaying pleasure can be pleasurable.
12:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, it makes sense. It's sort of like if you eat Thai food every day of the week.
12:53 Wendy Zukerman? Yes.
12:53 Speaker 01 But if you, if you go 20 days without eating Thai food, you'll fucking love. Can I, sorry, can I swear?
13:00 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah.
13:00 Speaker 01 You will love that.
13:01 Wendy Zukerman? On our semen retention episode?
13:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:04 Wendy Zukerman? I love to mark this explicit.
13:05 Speaker 01 Like the pad Thai will be, I feel, I feel a bit sad that I've just compared Thai food to having a jizz.
13:12 Wendy Zukerman? No, but absolutely, absolutely. You have that Thai food every day. Yeah, you're not gonna enjoy it.
13:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:17 Wendy Zukerman? Exactly. So then the question is, of course, what was happening to the testosterone?
13:21 Speaker 01 Okay.
13:21 Wendy Zukerman? So generally speaking, the testosterone levels didn't change throughout the entire experiment. The researchers wrote baseline testosterones were, quote, "similar before and after abstinence." And in fact, the only time they saw a little bit of a bump in testosterone levels was after the fellas had their big wank on day 21.
13:43 Speaker 01 Oh.
13:43 Wendy Zukerman? Right. Which is odd because this is somehow being used as evidence that not fapping bumps up testosterone levels. But to get the little boost of testosterone, you ultimately needed to wank.
13:57 Speaker 01 Uh huh.
13:59 Wendy Zukerman? And so what is interesting is that other studies have shown this kind of thing too, that after you orgasm, and this is for both men and women, you do get a little bump of testosterone.
14:08 Speaker 01 Okay.
14:09 Wendy Zukerman? It doesn't last very long. It's just a little bump.
14:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:12 Wendy Zukerman? But it's something that we've seen in experiment after experiment.
14:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, right.
14:16 Wendy Zukerman? Um, and in fact, the only study that I could find that suggested something a little bit fabulous, if you're not into fapping, is this small study from China that reported that after men didn't ejaculate for a week, testosterone levels went up and then went down on day eight.
14:34 Speaker 01 Ah.
14:35 Wendy Zukerman? But the thing is that paper's been retracted.
14:37 Speaker 01 Oh, okay.
14:38 Wendy Zukerman? So it's interesting, this idea persists. And I think one thing that really annoyed Justin while he was doing that sort of doom scrolling. On this topic is that some of the benefits that people said flowed from this apparent bump in testosterone didn't make any sense to him. So for example, people said that their skin looked better and their hair was thicker.
15:01 Speaker 01 Also, it seems kind of selfish, like you're not fapping, so your skin's glowing and your hair's thicker. So you're just walking around feeling better because you're not fapping, but you're making everyone else horny now. That seems unfair.
15:16 Wendy Zukerman? And from other research, we know that when you get a boost in testosterone, say you've just gone through male puberty.
15:25 Speaker 01 Yes.
15:26 Wendy Zukerman? That's associated with acne. And when there's some research to suggest that when men go on testosterone replacement therapy, for some folks, they actually start losing their hair.
15:38 Speaker 07 Total opposites. If you have semen retention and it truly increases your testosterone to high levels, your skin's not going to get better. You might have thinning of your hair. Physiologically, it just doesn't make sense.
15:52 Wendy Zukerman? And so bottom line, when he looks at the research that we have on testosterone and even tries to think of a mechanism, that's the other thing of like, how would not ejaculating boost testosterone levels? Like what could possibly be happening in the body?
16:06 Speaker 01 Yep.
16:07 Wendy Zukerman? To bump that up? He just, he starts shooting blanks.
16:11 Speaker 07 When I look at the research, I think it is pretty clear that holding your semen does not increase your testosterone levels. So, you know, there's really no good data to suggest that there's any testosterone boosting benefit to semen retention.
16:27 Speaker 01 So what you're saying is so far, Justin's conclusion is like that he can't find any physiological basis for this, essentially is what you're saying.
16:37 Wendy Zukerman? So far, we've just looked at testosterone, but there's other things that could be going on during ejaculating that could explain some of the.
16:45 Speaker 01 The other stuff.
16:45 Wendy Zukerman? The other stuff, the other exciting stuff that people are talking about.
16:48 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah. Okay, great.
16:49 Wendy Zukerman? That might actually help their case a little more.
16:54 Wendy Zukerman? So the next thing I wanted to look at is whether not ejaculating could improve your mood and energy and maybe even boost your athletic performance.
17:02 Speaker 01 Oh.
17:03 Wendy Zukerman? Which is something that a lot of athletes think about.
17:07 Speaker 01 Yes.
17:07 Wendy Zukerman? Have you heard of this idea?
17:09 Speaker 01 It came up a bit during like the World Cup. There was like a coach who banned his players from having sex.
17:15 Wendy Zukerman? That's right. I mean, in the 1998 World Cup.
17:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:19 Wendy Zukerman? The English coach forbade his players from having sex.
17:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, which I think I was probably 12 at that time.
17:25 Wendy Zukerman? That's so funny. You remember that, right?
17:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, but that idea has lodged in my head.
17:29 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah, Muhammad Ali was also into it.
17:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:32 Wendy Zukerman? He built a whole farm.
17:34 Speaker 01 Really?
17:34 Wendy Zukerman? So that he could be away from his wife before a fight. So could it be true? And the thing is, when you orgasm, it can lead to a rush of hormones like oxytocin and prolactin, which can make us feel relaxed and lower our energy.
17:50 Speaker 01 Yes, okay.
17:51 Wendy Zukerman? And so I asked Justin, so if you don't ejaculate, you don't get that sense of relaxation, which some may interpret as tiredness, you would therefore feel more energy potentially.
18:07 Speaker 07 Potentially, but here's the weird thing, right? Like, it's only in the moment. It's not like it's lasting for hours or anything. You're, you know, a lot of your listeners, some, I mean, have ejaculated.
18:18 Wendy Zukerman? I think so.
18:19 Speaker 07 It's not like, yeah, it's not like, you're like, oh, God, I have no energy for the rest of the day.
18:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's true.
18:28 Wendy Zukerman? Right.
18:29 Speaker 01 I guess, but you do sometimes feel like.
18:31 Wendy Zukerman? Ready for a nap.
18:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:33 Wendy Zukerman? I feel like.
18:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:34 Wendy Zukerman? And so there have been studies that have actually looked at this in terms of sports performance.
18:39 Speaker 01 Uh huh.
18:39 Wendy Zukerman? So for example, there's this research that basically gets guys, it's all, I think it's all men in these studies, that tells them like not to have sex the night before. And then they'll test whether they can lift more weights or cycle faster.
18:54 Speaker 01 Okay.
18:55 Wendy Zukerman? Or my favorite, test their grip strength.
18:57 Speaker 01 Oh, yes. Yep.
18:58 Wendy Zukerman? And so I asked Justin, what have these studies found?
19:01 Speaker 07 You know, most studies do show that there is no impact of sexual activity on athlete performance.
19:10 Wendy Zukerman? It doesn't, it doesn't affect it.
19:11 Speaker 07 Does not impact athletic, athlete performance.
19:14 Speaker 01 I'm surprised, but my, maybe just because of 1998 World Cup that's like lodged in my brain. But it, it does, and maybe, I mean, it's like, I've just been making excuses, but sometimes I'll have a big gig and I, I've created this narrative in my head that I shouldn't have an ejaculation before a big gig.
19:33 Wendy Zukerman? So, oh yeah, right, right, right.
19:35 Speaker 01 I would have once had an ejaculation and then gone to a gig and then it didn't go well.
19:41 Wendy Zukerman? Yes.
19:42 Speaker 01 And in my head, I've just created a narrative now that like, the people, I wasn't glowing enough on stage.
19:47 Wendy Zukerman? Ah.
19:48 Speaker 01 My hair looked too frail.
19:49 Wendy Zukerman? Your energy, you'd wasted your seed.
19:51 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:52 Wendy Zukerman? You wasted your energy.
19:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:54 Wendy Zukerman? There is one sort of exception to this idea that perhaps it doesn't matter, that maybe might make you feel better about your thinking around gigs.
20:03 Speaker 01 Okay.
20:04 Speaker 07 Except if you're having sexual activity within two hours of the event, which makes sense, right? That kind of makes sense, how you're tired, a little bit lower energy, and also you're straining yourself, you're exhausting your muscles, you're exerting yourself. So people could actually be just tired from the exertion of having sex when you're trying to perform.
20:29 Wendy Zukerman? And so the study, Justin's actually referring to one particular study. It was a study of 15 male athletes randomly assigned to have sex and ejaculate or not have sex. And then two hours later, they basically had to go on this like fancy exercise bike.
20:45 Speaker 01 Okay.
20:46 Wendy Zukerman? And, and ride as, as hard as they could go, um, while their heart rate was being measured. Now, interestingly, when, when they, whether they had sex or not, it didn't affect how hard they could go on the bike, but after, in the recovery phase, their heart rate was a little bit higher.
21:05 Speaker 01 Okay.
21:06 Wendy Zukerman? And some of them said the exercise bike, even though they could do it, it was a, it was a bit tougher.
21:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, wow.
21:13 Wendy Zukerman? On the sex days.
21:14 Speaker 01 Okay.
21:15 Wendy Zukerman? So.
21:16 Speaker 01 So two hours is the window.
21:17 Wendy Zukerman? Two hours, sure.
21:18 Speaker 01 That maybe it's relevant.
21:19 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah, maybe it's relevant. 10 hours, night before, you're absolutely fine.
21:22 Speaker 01 Okay.
21:24 Speaker 01 Is there a difference between an ejaculation solo versus with a partner?
21:30 Wendy Zukerman? Great question. So hormonally, not really. So both when studies look at whether your prolactin, oxytocin, testosterone levels rise after sex versus after masturbating, they all see the same pattern.
21:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, okay, okay.
21:49 Wendy Zukerman? That like oxytocin goes up, prolactin goes up, testosterone goes up.
21:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
21:53 Wendy Zukerman? So that was the closest I could find. Probably on a psychological level, it does make a difference.
22:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:00 Wendy Zukerman? I would imagine that you people feel differently after, just after sex with someone else.
22:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:09 Wendy Zukerman? And just quickly, I also looked at whether abstinence can boost your mood. People talk about how it can help with depression, anxiety. And studies have looked into this. So one study compared 44 men who didn't masturbate for three weeks with guys that did. No difference in mood. But the no fappers did feel more self-control on average.
22:29 Speaker 01 Yep.
22:29 Wendy Zukerman? There is this other study that looked at guys who were on a forum for trying to break pornography addiction. And in doing this, a bunch of them also tried to stop masturbating or orgasming at all. And they wrote these abstinence diaries that researchers then analyzed. And some men, they did really value this activity. So one 21 year old said he did feel more happiness. And another wrote, I just feel on a deeper level with work, friends, pastimes. There have been waves of emotion, good and bad, but it's a great thing.
23:03 Speaker 01 Yeah, which could be from just discipline in general. Like if you, yeah, if you restrain yourself or restrict yourself from certain activities that requires a level of discipline, I guess. It might not be the fapping itself, it's the.
23:16 Wendy Zukerman? This is what I think, this is what I think. And speaking to Justin and other researchers, it definitely feels like it's more psychological.
23:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, that makes sense.
23:28 Wendy Zukerman? That you didn't like how much you were masturbating or orgasming and now you've been able to.
23:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:33 Wendy Zukerman? Control yourself and that's why you feel better. But I do think in the, in these forums, yeah, what they're getting wrong is they're kind of blaming.
23:43 Wendy Zukerman? What masturbating is doing in your body? Blaming the physiology of like, if you masturbate, it's sapping you from energy, hormones that you need, blah, blah, blah, when it's, I think it is really more of a mental thing.
23:55 Speaker 01 So there's no evidence for that?
23:56 Wendy Zukerman? I think that's where we're at.
23:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, great. Okay. I feel empowered and to return to my fat lifestyle.
24:05 Wendy Zukerman? But after the break, can saving your seed boost the quality of your sperm?
24:11 Speaker 01 Oh, great question.
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25:06 Speaker 08 Or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbound.lily.com.
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26:54 Speaker 09 This episode is brought to you by Petivity. Cat parents are basically mealtime detectives. Who actually ate? Did they finish? Was that less than yesterday? The new Petivity Smart Feeder for cats turns everyday meals into meaningful health insights, helping you identify changes in your cat's habits and be more proactive about their health. Plus, you can feed them from anywhere. Take the mystery out of mealtime. Visit petivity.com, P E T I V I T Y dot com slash cat feeder to learn more.
27:27 Wendy Zukerman? Welcome back. Today on the show, should you try to stop ejaculating for a month more? We've just learned it probably won't bump up your testosterone levels or give you more energy, but now we're finding out, can it boost your sperm quality? For this, we need Brent Hanson. He's a reproductive endocrinologist and fertility specialist at CCRM Fertility of Minneapolis. How many people's sperm have you looked at?
27:55 Speaker 11 Oh my gosh. Many thousands. I don't have an exact number for you, but we're, we're talking in the thousands.
28:02 Wendy Zukerman? Wow, okay. Can you paint a picture of when you're looking at the sperm under the microscope? What's a sample that makes you really happy? That you're like, this is a great sample of swimmers?
28:13 Speaker 11 When I, you know, as I'm still focusing the microscope, if I'm just seeing like... I almost view it as fish, like you're thinking of like a pond with like fish in it. And you're like, there's nothing but fish here. It's full of fish. You can hardly see the water. If all I'm seeing is like a swarm, that makes me happy.
28:31 Wendy Zukerman? So the question is, how do we make Brent happy?
28:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
28:34 Wendy Zukerman? Right?
28:35 Speaker 01 We want a swarm.
28:35 Wendy Zukerman? We want a swarm. How do we get the swarm?
28:38 Speaker 01 That's a great, I love your question, but I, my real question is, do, is it true that they have like a little face that looks like your face?
28:52 Speaker 01 I thought that's where you were gonna go, like, what do you wanna see? And I thought it was, if I see that the face matches the guy's face.
29:00 Wendy Zukerman? I'll know, he didn't switch the sperm at the last moment.
29:06 Wendy Zukerman? Now, this question of how we get a swarm of fish swimming in our gut. Um, it's important because a lot of folks are struggling with fertility issues right now. Sperm counts have been going down. So could saving your seed and not ejaculating be the answer here? And Brent did this big review paper looking at this. And a big reason he did it is because when patients would say, you know, we're struggling to have a baby, how long should I be waiting here before I come into my partner? He didn't have a great answer for them and he thought.
29:37 Speaker 11 Shouldn't we have a better understanding of this? Because it's so simple, you know? You should be able to look at six hours, 12 hours, 24 hours and three weeks and get a really good estimation of like, what is the optimal time? And it seemed kind of baffling to me that no one had really looked into that in quite some time.
29:54 Wendy Zukerman? Right? It feels like, it doesn't feel like dark matter, you know? It feels like something we should get a handle on.
30:00 Speaker 01 It's famously white.
30:03 Speaker 01 But yeah, I know what you mean. Like this is an experiment that you would think would, yeah, no brainer.
30:08 Wendy Zukerman? No brainer, right? So Brent and his team looked at more than two dozen studies on how abstaining from ejaculating could affect various things related to sperm. And so I actually didn't realize how many different things can affect the quality of your sperm. But I asked Brent to list them.
30:27 Speaker 11 There are a lot. So concentration is one, the number of sperm per milliliter, um, the volume.
30:32 Wendy Zukerman? Semen volume, that's just how much gunk is coming out in total.
30:37 Speaker 11 The liquid volume, yep.
30:39 Speaker 01 Can we not call it gunk?
30:41 Wendy Zukerman? My editor said the same thing. You don't like gunk?
30:45 Speaker 01 Gunk is very derogatory. It's, it sounds like it's waste.
30:49 Wendy Zukerman? Oh, oh, what would, what do you think we should use instead? Semen?
30:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, to be, yeah.
30:56 Wendy Zukerman? It's scientific. Yeah, anything else we could go for?
30:59 Speaker 01 Load.
30:59 Wendy Zukerman? Jizz?
31:00 Speaker 01 Jizz. Gunk creates, it's like waste.
31:02 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah, yeah, okay.
31:04 Speaker 01 Like gunk is, you get spray and wipe. But gunk, you know what I mean? Like you wanna be.
31:11 Wendy Zukerman? But semen you might leave around for a little bit.
31:17 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah, we don't wanna add to the guilt around this.
31:19 Speaker 01 No guilt.
31:19 Wendy Zukerman? That's right, that's right. Okay. So looks at DNA of the sperm, pH of the sample, motility, how well the sperm are moving. Under the microscope, yeah, he can also look at the shape of the sperm.
31:33 Speaker 11 There are some that you just look at and it's like, yeah, double head, we're out, that's not normal. Double tail, same thing. It's like if there's two of anything, we're done. That's not a normal one.
31:43 Wendy Zukerman? And all of these things can affect the chance that a sperm is gonna sneak its way
31:48 Speaker 01 Okay.
31:48 Wendy Zukerman? into, you know, through the cervix and ultimately make a baby. And so if you avoid jerking off for a few days or even a few weeks, what happens to all these things?
31:58 Speaker 01 Yes.
31:59 Wendy Zukerman? All right, let's start with sperm count and volume.
32:01 Speaker 01 Okay.
32:03 Wendy Zukerman? Studies over and over again have found that less fapping on average means more sperm when you do come.
32:11 Speaker 01 Okay.
32:12 Speaker 11 Yeah, so the, the take homes, you know, from this were really that the longer you go without ejaculating, the larger that sample will be.
32:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's like if you, uh, if it, you know, when the train is delayed or cancelled, there's more people on the platform.
32:29 Wendy Zukerman? And that, that's basically it. It's like the semen is collecting in there, pipes are fuller.
32:33 Speaker 01 Yep.
32:33 Wendy Zukerman? One small study calculated that for every day the men held on and didn't ejaculate, their sperm volume increased by around 12%.
32:41 Speaker 01 Oh, that's, okay.
32:42 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah, now that huge bump, it doesn't last forever. After four days of not fapping, the benefits get smaller and small.
32:48 Speaker 01 Okay.
32:50 Wendy Zukerman? But still, no fappers are absolutely on to something here. But when it comes to the egg and sperm race, quantity is not the only game in town.
32:58 Speaker 01 Okay, nice.
33:00 Wendy Zukerman? Quality too, right? What's the point in having a bunch of swimmers if they can't, you know,
33:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:04 Wendy Zukerman? reach the target? And studies have found, including one that looked at sperm samples from more than 2,000 men, that if you are looking at swimming in particular, so motility, fapping is your friend. So people who got off more tended to pump out better swimmers.
33:22 Speaker 01 Yes, okay, but the longer they've been waiting on the platform, the more frustrated they are when they, when they get on the phone.
33:28 Wendy Zukerman? Yes, yes, okay, so to give you some more details about what frustration looks like
33:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:33 Wendy Zukerman? to a sperm.
33:34 Speaker 01 Yeah. Now we're talking gunk.
33:36 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah.
33:37 Speaker 01 After four days, it's a bit gunkier.
33:39 Wendy Zukerman? Right. After is, so one way we can look at this is through DNA damage.
33:45 Speaker 01 Okay.
33:45 Wendy Zukerman? And so when your sperm gets a little damaged, that can make it harder to, for that sperm to then go on to create a baby.
33:52 Speaker 01 Okay.
33:53 Wendy Zukerman? And so let's look at what Brent found. So what did you find in terms of does retaining your semen improve your sperm's DNA?
34:01 Speaker 11 Yeah, so, so what we found is that the longer the abstinence period, the more these kind of DNA, you know, errors, so to speak, accumulate.
34:12 Speaker 01 Huh.
34:12 Wendy Zukerman? Hmm, yeah, so the more time between busting a nut, on average, more DNA damage in the sperms. And this makes sense once you have a better idea of where sperm gets stored and made
34:26 Speaker 01 Okay.
34:26 Wendy Zukerman? in the body. So basically sperm are made in the testicles and they're really happy there. The temperature's great, they got this blood testes barrier, so here's Justin again.
34:36 Speaker 07 Just like you've heard of the blood brain barrier, they have the testes blood barrier to protect the sperm, right?
34:44 Wendy Zukerman? I didn't know about this barrier.
34:45 Speaker 01 Yeah, right.
34:46 Wendy Zukerman? And so it protects the sperm from a whole bunch of things like inflammation.
34:49 Speaker 01 Uh huh.
34:50 Wendy Zukerman? So they love it in there, love it in the testicles, but eventually the body's like, you've got to move on. And the sperms get pushed along to this wiggly tightly coiled tube, which is called the epididymis.
35:02 Speaker 01 Okay.
35:03 Speaker 07 When it goes through your epididymis, which is where it actually becomes mature, it, it is no longer in that barrier that protects it.
35:11 Wendy Zukerman? It's like high school, like a little high school for sperm, it's a bit stressful.
35:15 Speaker 07 Yeah, exactly. It takes on some additional stress. And that good sperm can develop some dysfunctional DNA.
35:23 Wendy Zukerman? And when they're in the epididymis, they can get exposed to things like oxidative stress, other things that can damage DNA.
35:30 Speaker 01 Ah.
35:32 Wendy Zukerman? But yeah, if you ejaculate more often, you're not hanging out in that place for longer. And then, so I guess my question was, what is the optimum time to wait then?
35:41 Speaker 01 Yeah, great.
35:44 Wendy Zukerman? And if you're trying to make a baby the old fashioned way, like through sex, not rather than IVF, you need to balance quality and quantity.
35:53 Speaker 01 Uh huh.
35:54 Wendy Zukerman? So because if you, if you are jerking off too many times, the quantity will go down.
36:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:00 Wendy Zukerman? And you, you still need numbers. It's still a numbers game.
36:03 Speaker 01 It's a numbers game. Hey, I'm a former accountant. If anyone understands that, it's me.
36:09 Wendy Zukerman? So Brent, um, the fertility specialist in Minneapolis, told me like basically as you're heading into that fertile window of your partner, they're about to ovulate.
36:18 Speaker 01 Yes.
36:18 Wendy Zukerman? Try not to have ejaculated for, he says, two to five days.
36:22 Speaker 01 Okay.
36:23 Wendy Zukerman? But for some folks, they have a lot of DNA damage in their sperm, which you can check by doing a test.
36:30 Speaker 01 Uh huh.
36:30 Wendy Zukerman? And for those people, he actually recommends just one day.
36:33 Speaker 01 Oh, okay.
36:34 Wendy Zukerman? Because the DNA.
36:35 Speaker 01 Keep clearing the pipe.
36:36 Wendy Zukerman? Clearing the pipes faster. Um, but as for this idea that, you know, you want to be waiting weeks or months or, you know, doing no nut November, Brent's like.
36:46 Speaker 11 I think if you're going beyond five days, certainly beyond 10 days, you're not doing yourself any favors. You will just be increasing the number of probably non-viable, non-modal, abnormally shaped sperm with high rates of DNA fragmentation, because those will continue to accumulate and they don't get flushed.
37:03 Speaker 01 The question though, it would be like if you. You probably have to have a few shots on goal, potentially, to get pregnant.
37:10 Wendy Zukerman? That's exactly right. And because your partner's fertile window is really only around five or six days long each month.
37:17 Speaker 01 So the first one, you might have that gap of two to five days.
37:20 Wendy Zukerman? Yes.
37:21 Speaker 01 But then if you want to have another.
37:22 Wendy Zukerman? Once you're in the window, he says, go for it. He says, if you've got the question of, once you're in the window, do I have sex or not? He's like, have sex.
37:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:30 Wendy Zukerman? But he also said that by the time people are seeing him in the clinic, it's so stressful. There's nothing fun about sex at that point.
37:37 Speaker 01 Yes.
37:38 Wendy Zukerman? And he saying to someone, just have sex, whatever, can also be very stressful.
37:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, okay.
37:43 Wendy Zukerman? So he wanted to give.
37:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, alright.
37:45 Wendy Zukerman? Time for that. Alright, our last question for the day, I asked Justin. So then, are there any risks to semen retention? I guess if you are not in the baby making world, is it bad if you feel good about not ejaculating?
38:04 Speaker 07 Listen, if you're enjoying yourself, you feel good, you don't have to ever ejaculate. I don't really think that's a problem. And you know, people don't ejaculate for a long time, right? You have people who are not sexually active, they're asexual, totally fine.
38:16 Wendy Zukerman? Yes, because online you do see some quite hysterical headlines about the dangers of not ejaculating.
38:24 Speaker 01 Yes.
38:25 Wendy Zukerman? And the one thing that people do point to, there's sort of one bit of science evidence for this, is around prostate cancer.
38:32 Speaker 01 Okay.
38:32 Wendy Zukerman? Have you heard this?
38:34 Speaker 01 No, I haven't, no.
38:35 Wendy Zukerman? There is some research suggesting that folks who ejaculate a lot have a lower risk of prostate cancer than those who ejaculate a little, but we're not really sure what's going on here.
38:45 Speaker 01 Okay.
38:46 Wendy Zukerman? Prostate's big job is to help make semen, and so possibly by clearing out the pipes, you are clearing out potentially harmful things that could build up in there. It's not a crazy idea, but both Brent and Justin aren't sure if the ejaculating is actually helping you to avoid prostate cancer, or perhaps if something else might be going on here.
39:09 Speaker 01 Okay.
39:09 Wendy Zukerman? And it highlights that there have been other studies that do not find this connection.
39:13 Speaker 01 Yeah, so it's not very conclusive, is what we're saying.
39:15 Wendy Zukerman? Exactly, much like masturbation, it's a bit messy.
39:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, okay.
39:22 Wendy Zukerman? So Justin actually told me that, you know, his bigger concern for people when he's thinking about the risks is that if you are really into not fapping and you join this, these communities that then tell you jerking off is bad and terrible for you, that that is going to cause harm in itself.
39:44 Speaker 01 Oh, right, right.
39:45 Speaker 07 Here's the thing, right? A lot of these groups, you have to understand, create guilt. You can have guilt about wanting to ejaculate. You can have stress around not ejaculating.
39:56 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah, and if you buy into this stuff online, that it is so bad to ejaculate, you can start to feel crappy about yourself when you start to feel horny or when you relapse, even using sort of language like that. And in fact, as a study found, that people who hang out more on the no fap Reddit forums tend to feel more shame, more worthlessness, some even have suicidal thoughts after ejaculating.
40:25 Speaker 01 Okay, wow.
40:26 Wendy Zukerman? Which is different to, because there's a lot of support groups out there for if you have cancer or various diseases and studies tend to find the more time on these forums, the better people feel because they're sort of communing with each other, they're sharing how difficult it is. So it's quite telling that in this case, it's kind of going the opposite.
40:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.
40:50 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah, Justin says that that totally makes sense.
40:52 Speaker 07 Of course. If someone's telling you online that you should not ejaculate because it's bad for you and you should, like, it's so funny because it's almost like in all these videos, it's like, your whole day is thinking about just not ejaculating, which is like, which I'd go crazy, I'd go crazy about.
41:11 Wendy Zukerman? You know, at worst, I did not know this before. I thought no fapping was all about sex and, and fapping.
41:21 Wendy Zukerman? But on those forums, they kind of have got a little crazy.
41:25 Speaker 01 They have, yeah.
41:26 Wendy Zukerman? To say the least.
41:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
41:27 Wendy Zukerman? They are filled with misogyny, homophobia, antisemitism.
41:32 Speaker 01 Yes.
41:32 Wendy Zukerman? It gets real dark, real fast. But away from the culture of no fap. If you are interested in going for a month or maybe even more without ejaculating. Brent and Justin were very aligned on this.
41:45 Speaker 07 I think that the idea here is that you should not feel bad about doing things like ejaculating. If you don't want to ejaculate, don't ejaculate. It's okay to ejaculate a lot. It's okay to ejaculate a little. It's okay to not ejaculate at all. You're gonna be fine.
42:02 Wendy Zukerman? Do you want me to keep saying ejaculate a couple more times?
42:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, what he's trying to say is, are you the master of your domain?
42:10 Wendy Zukerman? That's right.
42:12 Speaker 01 But yeah.
42:15 Wendy Zukerman? How do you feel about your relationship with fapping at this point?
42:20 Speaker 01 Yeah, I like all of that, that they're, I like the idea that there's no guilt around it and that it can be healthy, but also everything in moderation.
42:29 Wendy Zukerman? Do you think you're gonna try No Nut November after this? Is this a challenge that after hearing the science?
42:34 Speaker 01 Probably not.
42:34 Wendy Zukerman? You want to rise to?
42:35 Speaker 01 I don't know. It doesn't feel like a challenge that is calling me. But also now I know that it's not detrimental to do it either way, really. To be honest, the opposite feels truer now. Where after this discussion, I feel like I should, the pipes thing. Pardon me, DNA damage sounds so serious.
42:55 Wendy Zukerman? Extreme.
42:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:56 Wendy Zukerman? I mean, it's just.
42:58 Speaker 01 It only matters if you're gonna use them.
42:59 Wendy Zukerman? Yeah, exactly, exactly. It's fine to.
43:02 Speaker 01 The sock doesn't matter if it doesn't mind.
43:04 Wendy Zukerman? The sock doesn't care.
43:05 Speaker 01 A sperm with two heads, the sock's fine with that. That's a novelty for the sock.
43:09 Wendy Zukerman? That is exactly right.
43:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:11 Wendy Zukerman? Thank you so much.
43:13 Speaker 01 No, thank you. I've learnt a lot. I'm no longer curious.
43:15 Wendy Zukerman? You're no longer curious? Oh, I'm sorry, though.
43:19 Wendy Zukerman? That's science versus.
43:24 Wendy Zukerman? This episode has 71 citations in it. So if you want to read more about anything that we talked about, you can just go to the show notes and click on our transcript, and it is fully cited. So go have fun. There's some fun papers to read. You can find Suren on Instagram at Suren, which is S U R E N comedy. We are on Instagram too, science underscore V S. I'm on TikTok at Wendy Zook. Come and say hello.
44:01 Wendy Zukerman? This episode was produced by me, Wendy Zukerman, with help from Michelle Dang, Merrill Horn, Rose Rimla, and Aketi Foster-Kes. We're edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact checking by Erica Akiko Howard. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Emma Munga, So Wiley, Peter Leonard, Bumi Hidaka, and Bobby Lord. A big thanks to Joseph Lavelle Wilson and the Zukerman family. Science Versus is a Spotify Studios original. Listen to us for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We are everywhere. And if you like what we're doing, please tell your friends about us. Share the love for the show around. Give us a five star review. And if you are listening on Spotify, you can follow us and tap the bell icon so you get notifications when new episodes come out.
44:45 Wendy Zukerman? I'm Wendy Zukerman, and I'll back you next time.
44:54 Speaker 08 Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound terzepatide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15-milligram injection. Zepbound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and Effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it.
45:38 Speaker 08 Or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer. Or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type two. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbound.lily.com.
46:24 Speaker 12 Stonefire naan is made with real buttermilk and ghee. It's the perfect flatbread for any occasion.
46:30 Speaker 13 I put out Stonefire naan with dips at every dinner party.
46:33 Speaker 12 I make naan grilled cheese when my daughter has friends over.
46:36 Speaker 14 I use Stonefire naan to reward the humans who do my bidding. Right. It's perfect for camping trips. Dance for it, feeble mortal. Sorry, is he talking to me or? Dance. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
46:50 Speaker 12 From our tradition to yours. Stonefire.
46:53 Speaker 14 Together we naan.
Previous Birth Rates: Are We Running Out of Babies?? Next Daylight Saving Time: Should We End It? Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
