EP.261 - AYOADE BAMGBOYE

Adam talks with Nigerian writer/performer Ayoade Bamgboye about winning the 2025 Best Newcomer award at the Edinburgh Fringe, what determines her accent switching, her conservative upbringing, subsequent radicalisation and why she no longer wants her audiences to feel bad. And at Castle Buckles, an unseasonably warm day brings creepy guests. Conversation recorded face-to-face in London on 25 September 2025 AYOADE BAMGBOYE - SWINGS AND ROUNDABOUTS @ SOHO THEATRE https://sohotheatre.com/events/ayoade-bamgboye-swings-and-roundabouts/- 2025/2026 ADAM'S FORTHCOMING LIVE SHOWS https://www.adam-buxton.co.uk/events Thanks to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for additional editing Podcast illustration by Helen Green https://helengreenillustration.com/ Listen to Adam's album 'Buckle Up' https://adambuxton.lnk.to/BuckleUp Order Adam's book 'I Love You Byeee' https://lnk.to/iloveyoubyeee_ Sign up for the newsletter on Adam's website https://www.adam-buxton.co.uk/ (scroll down on homepage) RELATED LINKS 2025 EDINBURGH BEST NEWCOMER AWARD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r-RaS5BPOg - AYOADE BAMGBOYE - 2025 (YOUTUBE) RISE AND SHINE WITH CHANNEL 9 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMKclqOF0PY Written by Ayoade and co-starring Daniel Rigby - 2024 (YOUTUBE) THE 48 LAWS OF POWER (1998) SUMMARIZED IN UNDER 8 MINUTES BY ROBERT GREENE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke5kFc7U1h8 - 2023 (YOUTUBE) THE LOST BUS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFiO88d_gk(OFFICIAL TRAILER) Directed by Paul Greengrass - 2025 (YOUTUBE) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Adam Buxton?

  Hey, how are you doing, podcats? It's Adam Buxton here. Just thought I'd change things up for the intro today. Don't worry, we'll have the intro theme and get back to normal in a little bit, but... I thought I would let you in on a unusual, hour-old experience here at Castle Buckles. The last few days out here have been quite cold. I've been wearing long trousers, that's how bad it's been. But today is suddenly much warmer. In fact, the sun is out and it's streaming through the windows here in the barn, right next to my nutty room where I work. And I don't know if you can hear an ambient noise. What do you think that is?

• 0:48Adam Buxton?

  Maybe if I amplify the sound a little bit, you'll get a better idea of what we're dealing with here.

• 1:03Adam Buxton?

  Yes. It is flies. It is hundreds of flies. It's really like the portal to hell here in the barn out in Norfolk today. I mean, it's the nice part of the portal to hell because the sun is shining. It's a beautiful day. But the temperature has provoked a sudden mass population increase for the fly community. What are they gonna do for their time here on earth? Maybe I should open the door and let them out so they can at least explore the outside world rather than just bumping up against the window of the barn.

• 1:44Adam Buxton?

  The Buckles' barn spider posse are licking their lips because soon it is going to be feasting time. In the circle of life. I tell you what, I'm gonna just open the door here.

• 2:02Adam Buxton?

  Fly, fly, my pretties. Go and explore Norfolk. See what's happening with the delays on the A11. Enjoy yourselves.

• 2:14Adam Buxton?

  Some of them are going. Quite a few others are just saying, no, it's okay, thank you. I'm going to stay here bumping against the warm window.

• 2:27Adam Buxton?

  Actually, if I was a fly, I'd probably be one of those.

• 2:32Adam Buxton?

  Now I'm in the kitchen, Podcats, and Rosie is here. She's just got back from a walk with Frank. And she looks fairly panty.

• 2:43Adam Buxton?

  Do you want to come for another walk, Rosie?

• 2:48Adam Buxton?

  I think it's panty max. Not to make you sound like a feminine hygiene product, Rosie, but probably I'll let you stay here. Say hello to the Podcats, Rose. No, thank you. I'll just roll over for a scratch scratch instead.

• 3:07Adam Buxton?

  Here you go. Okay, everyone in the kitchen has stopped moving so that I can do the intro. Thank you very much. Finished now. I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin. Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening. I took my microphone and found some human folk. Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke.

• 3:36Adam Buxton?

  My name is Adam Buxton, I'm a man. I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan.

• 3:47Adam Buxton?

  Hey, how are you doing, Podcats? It's Adam Buxton here, back on the Norfolk farm track where I belong. After that extended ambient intro. Just thought it'd be a nice change. Rosie is back in the kitchen after a lovely sunny walk. I mean, it really is a sort of idyllic, slightly weird, dreamlike day.

• 4:13Adam Buxton?

  The flies notwithstanding, and also the ladybirds. They're everywhere. Just today, they've all exploded into life. Thanks to the change in temperature. But it's also very still out here. There's hardly any wind. And it's a totally cloudless blue sky. It's like standing on a film set almost.

• 4:38Adam Buxton?

  Okay, that's enough waffling and scene setting. Let me tell you a bit about podcast number two hundred and sixty one. Which features a good old rambling conversation with Nigerian comedy writer and performer Ayoade Bamgboye. A few weeks ago, Ayoade won the best newcomer award at the Edinburgh Fringe this year. Twenty twenty five, for listeners from the future. Here's some Bamgboye facts for you. Ayoade was born in Edmonton, in the far north of London. In nineteen ninety four, to a Nigerian mother and father. Mum worked in H R and dad was in the marketing department of a Nigerian telecoms company.

• 5:23Adam Buxton?

  The family moved to the West African coastal city of Lagos when Ayoade was seven. But when she was sixteen, she returned to the U K. Where her parents had enrolled her at a boarding school in the Lake District. After leaving school, Ayoade studied politics at King's College in London. Before returning home to Lagos once more, where she learned to drive. Worked in business development for creative companies and generally started the process of putting down roots. Within a couple of years, however, Ayoade was back in London doing odd jobs. Before finding a position in an advertising agency. She stayed in the ad industry for a few years, working her way up to quite senior positions.

• 6:09Adam Buxton?

  But all the while, she was spending more and more time writing comedy on days off. At a birthday party, she met British Nigerian filmmaker and writer Akinola Davis Junior. And after getting to know each other a little, he helped her sign up with a literary agent. Then in 2020, Ayawadi's father suddenly died, ushering in a period of personal upheaval, during which she took a job in Budapest, where, thanks to a connection via her agent, she had landed a job as an assistant to the director Yorgos Lanthimos, who was there starting production on his film Poor Things, starring Emma Stone and Willem Dafoe, eventually released in 2024, I think.

• 6:52Adam Buxton?

  But Ayawadi was not in a good place, personally, that is. Apparently Budapest is very nice. And after just six weeks, she was fired. All of this, however, was, in retrospect, part of a process that led to Ayawadi committing to starting her live comedy career back in London. And she talks about the death of her father and her time in Budapest in her current show Swings and Roundabouts, which was her first at the Edinburgh Fringe. According to Ayawadi, the show is also about "going nowhere fast", "being too British to stop apologising", and "too Nigerian to stop shouting". As I speak, Swings and Roundabouts has just started a run at the Soho Theatre in London,

• 7:37Adam Buxton?

  which has already sold out. But there's another chance to catch the show early next year, when it runs at the Soho Theatre between January the 13th to the 24th. I haven't actually seen Swings and Roundabouts yet. There's not that much of Ayawadi on the internet at the moment. She focuses her efforts on the actual comedy rather than much social media. So there isn't a huge amount of stuff of her out there. There is a special that she did with Daniel Rigby, a kind of spoof of This Morning, called Rise and Shine with Channel 9, that she did for Channel 4, produced by A24. There's a link in the description.

• 8:20Adam Buxton?

  But other than that, and one or two very short bits on YouTube, which was all I could find, I went into my conversation with Ayawadi without really knowing that much about her. The thing is that I was given the opportunity by some of the organisers at the Edinburgh Festival to interview the winner of the Best Newcomer Award. Obviously, I didn't know who that was gonna be, but I was up for it, you know, just to try and get my wizened old finger a little closer to the comedy pulse. But yes, it meant that when I met Ayoade at the end of September, more than usual, I was getting to know her as we spoke, which I really enjoyed. I found her to be, and I hope she doesn't think this is a weird thing to say, multifaceted and mischievous.

• 9:05Adam Buxton?

  So anyway, rather than telling you what we spoke about, come on the journey of discovery with us and get to know Ayoade along with me in real time. And I'll be back at the end for a tiny bit more waffle, but right now with Ayoade Bamgboye, here we go.

• 10:04Adam Buxton?

  Now, listeners, you join myself and Ayoade at a point when I've just realised we've been chatting for five minutes about the mics that I'm using and the fluffy covers. And I just realised that I hadn't pressed record on the recorder, so I am now recording.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  And the irony is so rich there because that was five minutes of some of the funniest things we've both ever said.

• 10:25Adam Buxton?

  It was good stuff. I would even like you to say some of the things again. I don't want to yuck anybody's yum.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  I did say that and I don't know, it feels out of character. But I I actually don't wanna yuck anybody's yum. I've now changed completely.

• 10:40Adam Buxton?

  Since you've become thrust into the spotlight.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  No, since yesterday, when I realised that I, so I have an iPad.

• 10:48Adam Buxton?

  Right.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  Which made things just clearer to me, you know.

• 10:54Adam Buxton?

  No, why did it make things clear?

• 10:55Speaker 01

  So when you get an iPad, your frontal lobe is completely rearranged. That's what happens, especially when you're a woman or a girl with an iPad. It means that you are suddenly privy to something, a knowing, an intelligence that is amplified by that flat piece of metal.

• 11:16Adam Buxton?

  Well, it depends where you go with it.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  It doesn't. You know, I could be holding my iPad on the way to the washing machine and somehow it will completely improve my experience of doing the laundry.

• 11:30Adam Buxton?

  What's the best thing you've seen on your iPad?

• 11:32Speaker 01

  I was on that because I've downloaded the LBC Radio app.

• 11:36Adam Buxton?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  So LBC Radio is is one of my kind of, i- it's one of my Roman empires. As a sort of stalwart of of the kind of commercially British disposition. Everybody there is miserable. Everybody there is stressed. So I downloaded the app so that I could get a main line of that stress at any given point.

• 12:00Adam Buxton?

  What do you listen to on there? James O'Brien?

• 12:02Speaker 01

  James O'Brien and then the, is this all right to say, the large one?

• 12:07Adam Buxton?

  I don't even know what that is.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  The large man, he's he's he's fat.

• 12:15Adam Buxton?

  I'm gonna need more than that. I'm not a regular listener myself.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Oh, right. He's fat um and white.

• 12:21Adam Buxton?

  Still need more.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  He's quite brutish.

• 12:23Adam Buxton?

  And more.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  But he seems like he would be five foot seven.

• 12:27Adam Buxton?

  I mean, I love the sound of this guy, but I don't know who he is.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  He's very spirited.

• 12:32Adam Buxton?

  Who the hell is that?

• 12:33Speaker 01

  I cannot remember.

• 12:35Adam Buxton?

  Is it a talk show host?

• 12:36Speaker 01

  He's, yeah, he, he wears the, you know, so like how you, you have this headphones on?

• 12:41Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  He has the same headphones. That's not helpful at all.

• 12:46Adam Buxton?

  Nick Ferrari?

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 12:48Adam Buxton?

  That was the first hit I got. I typed in.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Did you put fat?

• 12:51Adam Buxton?

  I put fat, brutish, short, and I got Nick Ferrari. No, I didn't. I just typed in L B C presenter.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, Nick, I think it's Nick Ferrari. And that app on my iPad has completely changed my game.

• 13:05Adam Buxton?

  Hmm.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  I saw a headline that stated Amy from Love Island backs the Gatwick Airport's expansion.

• 13:14Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  That's my favorite type of news because it's a perfect combination of the high and the low. Amy from Love Island, I'm not sure what her, what the stakes of the Gatwick Airport's expansion, how important it is to her. But then I later found out she used to be a flight attendant.

• 13:35Adam Buxton?

  Okay, like my mum.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  Like your mum?

• 13:37Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 01

  So I'm, is your mother still with us?

• 13:39Adam Buxton?

  She's not. She's gone to the great departure lounge in the sky.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Shuffled off this mortal coil.

• 13:44Adam Buxton?

  Hmm.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  God rest her soul.

• 13:46Adam Buxton?

  Thank you.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  But I'm sure she would be completely invested in the Gatwick Airport's expansion.

• 13:51Adam Buxton?

  Probably, yeah. She would have been all up for that kind of thing.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Been all over it.

• 13:54Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  But what a delicious headline. What do we make of that?

• 14:00Adam Buxton?

  What did you make of it?

• 14:01Speaker 01

  I laughed my head off.

• 14:02Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  And I said, you know what? Good on her. She cares about the Gatwick Airport expansion.

• 14:09Adam Buxton?

  It's jobs, isn't it? Was there any mention of the climate implications?

• 14:13Speaker 01

  There was. And she, you know, it's difficult to have an opinion on the climate when you're not a climatologist.

• 14:20Adam Buxton?

  Right.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Doesn't stop a lot of people.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  I know, you know what they're like.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  I'll tell you. Um, I really enjoyed that. So let's have more of that. Um, throughout the

• 14:29Adam Buxton?

  That voice.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's have more of that throughout this experience.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  Kind of LBC caller, isn't he? Yeah, it's like, I am completely appalled by this. James, I have to point out that you're talking absolute rubbish on some of this asylum hotel stuff. Yeah, why do they get taxis? Why do they get taxis? Yeah, I'm paying for them to stay and they're getting luxury breakfasts. I've seen the website. They've got Sky.

• 14:53Adam Buxton?

  I've massively oversimplified a very complicated and divisive

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Issue.

• 14:57Adam Buxton?

  National issue.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  You know what? I'm getting a, I'm getting a vibe that some things are too important to be taken seriously.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  It's just, if we, you know, when people say stuff like, it's just, it is very, it's a very complex issue.

• 15:14Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  I think we need to do some reducing of that complexity.

• 15:19Adam Buxton?

  Fair enough. Oh, do we need to tie up any loose ends there? We've got LBC, we've got Nick Ferrari, no disrespect to Nick. It was all a bit of fun, how we were describing.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  And, you know, I'm body positive.

• 15:31Adam Buxton?

  Body positive, no shaming here, please. Uh, James O'Brien, we didn't say anything bad about James O'Brien.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  Spineless and a coward.

• 15:39Adam Buxton?

  Okay, and we massively oversimplified the divisive

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Nature of

• 15:44Adam Buxton?

  Nature of the

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Cast warfare.

• 15:47Adam Buxton?

  Immigration issue, et cetera. And I think that was it from that beginning part. At this point, and I apologize if this is a question that you don't like. Tell me honestly how it makes you feel to talk about this. Explain to me what happens in your mind when you are switching accents? What determines when you switch?

• 16:10Speaker 01

  Isn't that such a good ques- I actually love the question. I'm getting it more and more after Fringe.

• 16:14Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  I think what happens in my brain when I'm switching accents is, it feels instinctive. But then, when I, when it's retroactively, like when I'm thinking about it, it's on purpose. So now, the way I just said purpose, that's a sort of generalized, sort of estuary type of accent.

• 16:35Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  And you've asked me a question and I want to articulate the answer. And there was a sort of period of my upbringing where articulation was synonymous with Englishness and Britishness. And you would enunciate in the way that this language was designed. Now I'm sort of floating back into my generalized Nigerian accent because I'm getting comfortable. So once I allow myself to settle into the chair and into my thought process, then I'll go back to my base, which is this.

• 17:09Adam Buxton?

  So that is your base. Is that how you think?

• 17:13Speaker 01

  That's how I think. Yeah, that's how I think. But I find that there's some instances where I'm thinking. So I find if it's like a, if it's a word, like onomatopoeic word that I love.

• 17:26Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  I'd think it in like a, in an estuary. So I love the word tinker.

• 17:32Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:33Speaker 01

  I love tinkering. I very rarely say that in a generalized Nigerian accent.

• 17:38Adam Buxton?

  Right, that was a word that came to you in your estuary British mode.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  And when it comes to me like that, I will fight it. So.

• 17:47Adam Buxton?

  Don't fight the tinkers.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  It's there's no point, or pottering.

• 17:50Adam Buxton?

  Okay, yeah. Sure, that's a very British word.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  Pottering's British and there's and there's certain phrases and sayings. So I have a very loving relationship with idioms.

• 18:00Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  And an idiom to me feels necessarily British, certain idioms. So when people say it's much of a muchness, isn't it? Oh, mate, that has to be said in the way that it's said. Do you know what I mean?

• 18:16Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, definitely. I'm trying to think if I can think of any Americans. No, you you're not gonna catch Trump saying, well, it's a much of a muchness.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  Although the way you just said it.

• 18:27Adam Buxton?

  Bad people.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Oh, he'll say that.

• 18:29Adam Buxton?

  Mean people.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  He so if he, for example, if one of his advisors had said in a flurry, it's a much of a muchness, two seconds before he got on stage. We don't know. Stranger things have happened. Might come out of his mouth.

• 18:42Adam Buxton?

  What does much of a muchness mean anyway? Like, same difference, is it?

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Same difference, same same. So I love that class of idiom that is. The beginning is also the end and the end is the beginning. It's all the same, six of one and half a dozen of the other.

• 18:56Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Swings and roundabouts, those kinds of idioms injected directly into my veins in the form of hard drugs. And I'd be okay with that.

• 19:05Adam Buxton?

  Swings and roundabouts is the name of your show, of course.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  It's the name of my show, yes, and that process of getting to a title, you've done fringes.

• 19:12Adam Buxton?

  I have, yeah, yeah.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  The process is at many points completely antithetical to true creativity.

• 19:19Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  Because you have to decide the title of your show before you know what you're going to see.

• 19:23Adam Buxton?

  That's true, yeah, before you've got it all worked out.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 19:26Adam Buxton?

  Keep it generic.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Keep it generic and swings and roundabouts kept coming back as a way to conclude a conversation. And a way to, as a segue into lots of different ideas. And you start as you mean to go on, but then you also start and end at the same place.

• 19:43Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  And how perfect is that as a concept and as a phrase?

• 19:50Adam Buxton?

  Is it gonna look good on a poster? That's the other big consideration.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  Yes, I mean, there were so many considerations that I I just didn't have because I had no context and no references, really.

• 19:59Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Like personal references, because that was my first show and my first time. Like I'd gone to watch fringes and I, one of my best friends went to Edinburgh, so she, I went for her graduation. And the first time I went out there was extremely scary. Because I went when it was the first one after the pandemic.

• 20:18Adam Buxton?

  Oh, yeah.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  And there was a bean strike.

• 20:21Adam Buxton?

  Bean strike.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  Yes, so it was dystopian, it was nasty. You know, there was people like Fagin's Boys, like slinking out of the shadows, you know, with. Flyers come to my show and it was scary, it was, I was like, what?

• 20:37Adam Buxton?

  That's what it's always like.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  The hell is going on here?

• 20:40Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  And as a first introduction to something so magical.

• 20:44Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  It really set me back and I just started stand up and I was like, if this is what you're supposed to do in the month of August. I would rather be waterboarded.

• 20:56Adam Buxton?

  So twenty twenty, you're starting and what did you go up there with?

• 21:01Speaker 01

  Well, I know, I went to watch.

• 21:02Adam Buxton?

  Oh, you just went to watch?

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just went to watch. I went for two days, two, three days.

• 21:06Adam Buxton?

  Just watching?

• 21:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:07Adam Buxton?

  And what kind of material were you doing at that point? And what had led you? This is a lot of questions I'm hitting you with. But what had led, what had led to you becoming a stand-up? Were you working in advertising at that point?

• 21:21Speaker 01

  I was still working advertising. I was working part-time, but I was also writing.

• 21:25Adam Buxton?

  Hmm.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  So I think I had like a sort of writerly disposition from quite an early age. Uh, this is what was taught to me. I'm not making this up, but I was gifted.

• 21:36Adam Buxton?

  Hmm. Congratulations.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Thank you. Uh, very, very gifted, the sort of, the type of child you put, take to the side.

• 21:44Adam Buxton?

  Prodigy?

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Yes, almost prodigy. So for example, I can remember the first year of my life.

• 21:50Adam Buxton?

  Is that true?

• 21:51Speaker 01

  No.

• 21:51Adam Buxton?

  Oh.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Complete fabrication.

• 21:53Adam Buxton?

  I got sucked in by the prodigy.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  It's a, you know, that's a complete fabrication, but basically I was gifted.

• 21:58Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  So and a lot of that was manifesting in just how I was writing, what I was writing.

• 22:03Adam Buxton?

  Okay.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  And I, in my sort of, I'd say eighteen to twenty-three, was doing a lot of more like editorial or prosaic writing.

• 22:13Adam Buxton?

  Where, where were you living at that point?

• 22:15Speaker 01

  I was, so I was living in, in England.

• 22:18Adam Buxton?

  Oh, yeah, okay.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I, I was born in London. I was in London till I was seven. Then I went to Lagos till I was fifteen.

• 22:23Adam Buxton?

  Ah, right.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  And then I came back to, well, I went to the Lake District for boarding school.

• 22:29Adam Buxton?

  Did you?

• 22:29Speaker 01

  That was, yeah, that was actually one of the funniest things to ever happen to me. Cause I went straight from Murat al-Mohammed Airport in Lagos. Tell me why I ended up in Oxenhome for school for two years.

• 22:48Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  And have you been to the Lake District?

• 22:49Adam Buxton?

  Yes.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 22:51Adam Buxton?

  I love it.

• 22:52Speaker 01

  It is very beautiful.

• 22:53Adam Buxton?

  You're gonna shit on the Lake District now?

• 22:55Speaker 01

  No, I won't shit on the Lake District because it's one of the most beautiful places ever.

• 22:58Adam Buxton?

  It's hard to be.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  But I think it's too stark, a journey to go from Lagos to the Lake District.

• 23:04Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, well, that's fair.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  You know, it's too sharp.

• 23:07Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. You didn't have such a good time?

• 23:09Speaker 01

  I had a lovely time.

• 23:10Adam Buxton?

  Okay.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  But the, in the beginning, I was just a bit shocked. I was a bit, and, and I was irritated. I was annoyed because it started quite a. Complex relationship with my identity.

• 23:21Adam Buxton?

  Right, okay.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  Back to the UK.

• 23:23Adam Buxton?

  And this is what you talk about in your show to some degree.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, exactly.

• 23:27Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  Of you, you get here, and I think especially at the age that I was, fifteen, sixteen, and so a lot of your predilections and your values are forming. And I felt a sense, like a groundedness in what was beginning to be my personality. And growing up in Lagos, everybody looks like you.

• 23:47Adam Buxton?

  Hmm.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  And so there's not really the element of a racialized existence that adds a level of jeopardy to your development. And then I suddenly get to the Lake District and I'm looking around and I'm thinking, oh, this might be a little bit of an issue. Because you're suddenly black.

• 24:07Adam Buxton?

  Can you remember what those thoughts were like then, apart from the obvious, apart from looking around and feeling like visually you were different?

• 24:15Speaker 01

  It's very cold, but then imagine you're cold in your soul. And it's like being in exile. You're not quite sure when you're gonna get to go home, but there's just a sinister and undercurrent of malevolence that you can't put your finger on. Because nobody's actively trying to kill you. You know what I mean?

• 24:36Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  But they, they, they don't necessarily want you there.

• 24:38Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  So your, your, your whole existence is begrudgingly. I don't know how to, to, that's actually a really good question, because I think I would love to put pen to paper on what that exact feeling is, but it, it, you, you feel uneasy.

• 24:54Adam Buxton?

  Hard to separate that feeling, though, an awareness of a racial separateness from a feeling of just being bummed out by going to a new school? And being surrounded by people you may or may not get on with anyway.

• 25:09Speaker 01

  Exactly, and I think there was so much of it, which is like now I can separate some of those things of what is homesickness or what was homesickness? What was, and also it was maybe just like I, I'm coming from an environment where I was. Loved and cherished and lauded and.

• 25:28Adam Buxton?

  You were gifted.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Gifted and into a space where there was almost like an assumption that I wasn't perfect. And I wasn't the greatest thing since sliced bread, which uh which irritated me. And made me quite annoyed because I expected to be the doors fling open choir on one side, orchestra on the other side. Red carpets to say I R D is here. There was none of that. Why aren't people excited to see me?

• 25:56Adam Buxton?

  Were you excited to see them? Were you thinking, I'm gonna smash this?

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Yes, and I was thinking that because I was like, because people loved me wherever I went. So I just thought, oh, I'm gonna, I guess I'm gonna be cold, but. Once I get into the house, into my dorm, it's going to be. Copacetic, like this is, that's how it normally is. People will be like, she's, it's her. It's her. But no, there was actually none of that and it really upset me.

• 26:22Adam Buxton?

  How long did that phase go on?

• 26:24Speaker 01

  Oh, just for like six weeks.

• 26:25Adam Buxton?

  And then they were impressed. Then they were like, yeah, she's here.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, just like impressed. No, should I, would I say impressed or just enamored?

• 26:32Adam Buxton?

  Sure. So what were your parents like? Your dad is no longer with us. You talk about that in your show.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  God rest his soul, sweet man.

• 26:39Adam Buxton?

  When did he go?

• 26:40Speaker 01

  He went fi- well, it's gonna be five years in a few weeks, actually.

• 26:43Adam Buxton?

  Not that long.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  Not that long. It's so, it is still one of the things that I'm just like, I, how dare that happen?

• 26:50Adam Buxton?

  Oh, man.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Yes, it's so irritating. He was fifty eight.

• 26:53Adam Buxton?

  Oh, that's young.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  It's too young. It's just too young and he, he was such a really nice balance of like gregarious and. Daring and and then my mom is quiet. She's a bit more stoic. But she, she still gets excited by things, which is really nice. And growing up, they were very, very. And I would, I say sometimes maybe too affirming. Where we just, we were pushed towards, you know, anything you want to do, just go and do it. So I remember growing up right before we moved to Nigeria, we did every club. I did Kumon, I did eh. Drama, dancing.

• 27:33Adam Buxton?

  Is the maths one, right?

• 27:34Speaker 01

  We did everything and it was just like, you know, get them into whatever they want. Maybe they'll find their thing. And I just remember sort of like. You know, when you're just a pep in your step as a child?

• 27:43Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Just like very, very, and my, to be fair, my mom said I just talked too much. So I talked too much and I don't know if it's a cultural thing, but the way I grew up, we were spanked.

• 27:55Adam Buxton?

  Oh, okay.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  So.

• 27:57Adam Buxton?

  I got a bit of spanking back in the day, but it was it was old in the it was seventies spanking.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  Uh so mine was nineties, early two thousands.

• 28:06Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, well, there's laws about it now in parts of the UK.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Really?

• 28:10Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  So as in if you smack your child, jail?

• 28:15Adam Buxton?

  I think fine, maybe.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Fine.

• 28:18Adam Buxton?

  I might Google this.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  Oh, that can't be. No, no, that's hilarious.

• 28:24Adam Buxton?

  Are you okay? That chair is. Is it is it gone now?

• 28:31Adam Buxton?

  It was a really bad chair. Hang on, let me let me sort you out.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  Oh, this one's higher.

• 28:37Adam Buxton?

  It's a technique I got off Stephen Bartlett to, you know, assert your dominance as a host. You give them rickety furniture. You have to control the C O two.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  They're in fight or flight mode.

• 28:49Adam Buxton?

  Exactly.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  Have you ever read um The Fifty Eight Laws of Power?

• 28:53Adam Buxton?

  No. Hello, fact checking Santa here. The name of the book is actually The Forty Eight Rules of Power by Robert Greene. Published in nineteen ninety eight.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  That is exact all of what you just said is in that canon.

• 29:08Adam Buxton?

  I bet you Stephen Bartlett's read that.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  He's hundred, that's on his nightstand. He's wanking off to that as we speak.

• 29:17Adam Buxton?

  That's so many laws of power. Have you read it?

• 29:19Speaker 01

  I've I've started reading it. So I know I've read the laws, but in terms of because each chapter then goes into a bit more detail. But that was just for that was a project on looking into the male mental health crisis. Because I think we're missing a trick. I think that we're gonna look back in many years and we're gonna think about how we didn't do enough to make it worse.

• 29:40Adam Buxton?

  To make it worse?

• 29:41Speaker 01

  Of course, we need to get some of these guys out of here.

• 29:45Adam Buxton?

  Which guys?

• 29:46Speaker 01

  Men who can't drive. What's the point of you, you know? Men who can't swim, why are you still here?

• 29:55Adam Buxton?

  Men who can't swim.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  I'm not taking advice from a man who cannot operate machinery.

• 30:02Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, this is the kind of rhetoric that I would expect from someone who was smacked as a child. Here are the, here are the current UK laws on smacking children. Well, it says it differs by country. It is illegal in Wales and Scotland. In England and Northern Ireland, smacking is lawful only if it constitutes, quotes, reasonable punishment.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 30:26Adam Buxton?

  So I don't know, maybe you were doing something that constituted reasonable punishment.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Of course, I mean, I was, when I say smacked, I'm using that as the, if there are any Nigerians listening to this, or any West Africans, any African Caribbean in the diaspora, they will know that when I say smack, I actually mean beats. I mean, I received my first share of dirty slaps um when I got a bit too precocious.

• 30:54Adam Buxton?

  Uh huh. What's a dirty slap?

• 30:56Speaker 01

  A dirty slap is when it's all five, all five fingers connect.

• 31:01Adam Buxton?

  Oh mate.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  But what that does is it resets you.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  So if you thought about getting out of line, you are able to quickly reorient yourself and you can have a good time.

• 31:15Adam Buxton?

  This is all coming back to Matthew McConaughey's book, Green Lights. Everything, everything seems to come back to that book for me in this year. He talks about the fact that he gets a slap every now and again at certain key moments in his life. And he talks in a similar way that you do about it, resetting him and it being the thing he needed at that point. But he doesn't really, I mean, for, for a lot of people listening, that's very jarring.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  I mean, I presume that a lot of people listening will be, you know, quite intimate with the white liberal fantasy.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  Um, and this sort of, the uh, an expectation of, of certain comforts and ideals. You know, being on the right side of history, having the right politics, some people just need a slap.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  And that I genuinely believe that there are a lot of people running around the whole place. With such reckless abandon that I know that they did not have the threat of a dirty slap when they were younger. And that's why, you know, a lot of people, the whites, they call their their aunties and uncles by their first name.

• 32:16Adam Buxton?

  Is that bad?

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Not that it's bad, it's different.

• 32:19Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  You know, it's it's it's just a different thing.

• 32:22Adam Buxton?

  So, is it fair to characterize your upbringing as conservative?

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:27Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Very conservative. And I think that's what it it's a really helpful comparison. Because then I get to see, you know, there's a a foundation of a conservative upbringing and then. A slight expansion as I was getting older and older. So there was stuff I wasn't allowed to do when I was eleven. And then I'm allowed to do that when I'm thirteen. And then there's a bit more of a an an opening when I'm fifteen and seventeen and eighteen and then you go off. And you can live your life as you please. But having guardrails, I found quite. I guess I was very upset when they were there.

• 33:02Adam Buxton?

  Hmm.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  But in hindsight, seems to be quite helpful.

• 33:05Adam Buxton?

  Right, okay. I mean, obviously, there's a fine line between, we're taking it as read, that there is a difference between. The kind of um guardrails that were set up for you and abusive parenting and regular.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 33:21Adam Buxton?

  Physical abuse of children.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  Exactly. And I think those are just two completely different things. And I guess I had the. The opportunity to be, I was raised in two very different places.

• 33:33Adam Buxton?

  Hmm.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  And I was disciplined in quite a variety of ways. And the way that I was disciplined and taught values when I was growing up in Lagos was quite different from. Going to boarding school, I'm not with my parents, and there's a different type of structure around managing behaviour. That was very interesting for me to compare.

• 33:56Adam Buxton?

  Hmm.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Because I used to be shocked when my classmates, when I got to the Lake District. They just open their mouth, they speak to the teacher.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  And I was like, why, this is a free for all, I guess. This is nuts.

• 34:12Adam Buxton?

  Does that conservatism carry through to your politics? You studied politics at college.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did. I went to King's. And King's, I think, is quite conservative, or at least like neoliberal. At its core, in terms of what the course contents were. And I think I got radicalized pretty early.

• 34:31Adam Buxton?

  In which direction?

• 34:32Speaker 01

  Oh, that's, isn't that a good question? In, of course, in the direction of the left. To the point where it would be like. You know, committing an act of domestic terrorism wouldn't have been out of my purview. And it annoyed my parents at every single sort of family holiday. It's like, what is she on about?

• 34:54Adam Buxton?

  What kind of things were you talking to them about?

• 34:57Speaker 01

  I think it was, a lot of it was about wealth disparities and. An assumption that sub-equatorial affairs, you know, do not matter. And I was also suffering from quite a few like nervous breakdowns.

• 35:14Adam Buxton?

  Oh, really?

• 35:15Speaker 01

  As my, yeah, so as I hit sort of nineteen and I was in second year of uni, my brain sort of broke.

• 35:22Adam Buxton?

  Pushing yourself too hard?

• 35:24Speaker 01

  I think I was becoming too enamored with the idea of suffering.

• 35:29Adam Buxton?

  Oh, really?

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, uh, it felt quite indulgent, I think, maybe now in hindsight.

• 35:34Adam Buxton?

  That sounds like something my conservative parents might have said.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it felt, it felt a bit, but I, I, I felt like, you know, when you. It's almost like I was on autopilot and then I suddenly had to start driving. I had to try and take control of this speeding vehicle and it was so harrowing to me. And I felt like all my nerve endings were exposed. And every single concept that I was studying. I was looking around and seeing it and, and feeling a helplessness that really, really destabilized me.

• 36:05Adam Buxton?

  Can you give me some specific examples?

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Like, I did study abroad in Paris and I was studying the history and the historiography of modern Africa. And my lecturer was a, a white male. And he, the way he spoke about my home with a almost sociopathic detachment. Made me want to kill myself. And he described us like, uh, we, we, we almost like, you know, if you saw a dog talking.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Quite intrigued.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  I've seen dogs talking.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. She's having a little natter.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  It's just, just, and it, and it really, and I, I couldn't put my finger on how casual he was about. You know, like, we were talking, also talking about security and securitisation in, in, in Africa. So you were talking about the Congo. And he would go, his eyes would go, like, he looked excited to describe why violence is inevitable in that part of the world. And I was just, also, I also didn't feel clever enough or confident enough to challenge it. And I didn't feel like I had the language to challenge it. And all the context I had was like, but, I don't know, I can't. I, I don't know that that's what I feel as a person of African descent, that violence is in my bones or in my cells.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  I've taken a couple of slaps, but it doesn't mean that's all I am. Do you know what I mean? And that really, really rubbed me the wrong way. Those kinds of things, they filled me with rage. And I didn't know where to put it. And I think it made me quite sick, like physically.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  Physically ill. Because I think when you're realising that your life doesn't matter, your life matters least structurally. You can go a bit insane. Because it's very painful to internalise that.

• 37:56Adam Buxton?

  Do you still feel like that? Or do you think that you were more in touch in a painful way with your identity at that point, rather than being able to have more generalised detached conversations?

• 38:08Speaker 01

  Yes, I think what it feels like, I was always like hurtling towards a point where performance and comedy would become a vehicle for me to

• 38:18Speaker 02

  Talk about all that.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  To talk about it, to put my pain and my rage, put it there sustainably. Rather than allowing it to crush my spirit. And I, I think I'm just so grateful to, like, comedy as a sort of concept, that that's how I get to access myself and to face my soul. And to share those experiences with other people. And it's now a choice, that this is upsetting to me. And it can move through me and I can share that upset with other people.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Without it being didactic or, you know, you know, like clapping comedy.

• 38:49Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  Where if I say, you know what, um, black people should have rights. And then everybody, everybody would clap for me. Woo, woo, no. Especially with this process with swings and roundabouts and with Edinburgh and like finding my voice has been like, what is a way to face my soul and to have conversations with my identity and to commune with it without it's destroying me.

• 39:10Adam Buxton?

  Right, and without going for the cheap whoop.

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, without going for the cheap whoop. And I think the whimsy and the silly and has been so like, it's been restoring me

• 39:18Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  in that sense and building me back up because I think there are lots of of concepts that I felt I just did not want to get bogged down in the minutia because I'm not interested in arguing with people about that. Like, I'm not going to talk, I'm not going to prove my self-worth or sense of self to people. I'm not doing that. That's actually a stupid thing to do. And this, there's an idea of you play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. I don't want a stupid prize.

• 39:50Adam Buxton?

  You got one. Best newcomer.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Ah, that's, but I, no, I, I want best.

• 39:56Adam Buxton?

  It's not a stupid prize. It's a great, it's the great prize.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  I mean, that was, that has been a, been shocking to me because I think like to get to say what I wanted to say.

• 40:06Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  And people like that and they respond to that and it becomes this feedback loop of like, it actually becomes a conversation. And then somebody gives you a prize and then they give you five thousand pounds to Potter and to tinker and to get to access your own emotional memories. It's just been the greatest gift.

• 40:25Adam Buxton?

  And you feel like they are engaging with it, with your show.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:30Adam Buxton?

  In the way that you would hope they would.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Yes, and I, I felt bad because I thought that there was a lot of fear mongering around fringe and around being um of a certain protected characteristic and going off to fringe, right?

• 40:44Adam Buxton?

  And so what's the definition of a protected characteristic?

• 40:47Speaker 01

  The protected characteristic is that i- identifies that you can be discriminated against.

• 40:51Adam Buxton?

  Okay.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  For. It's gender, race, I think, class, sexuality, the um, what's the other one? Pregnancy.

• 40:59Adam Buxton?

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  I think that's a specific one. Disability. So like, there's, there's.

• 41:03Adam Buxton?

  Fleeces on there or shorts?

• 41:05Speaker 01

  I think shorts.

• 41:06Adam Buxton?

  I think shorts might be.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  Shorts has to be on there. I didn't want to say anything when I, when I saw you.

• 41:10Adam Buxton?

  No, that's good. I'm just happy that I've got one of the protected characteristics.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  I didn't want to speak on it, but I said, when I saw the shorts, I said, fuck.

• 41:18Adam Buxton?

  He's protected.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 41:19Adam Buxton?

  Or he needs to be.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  I can't drag him for that, but he should be dragged. Um, it's too cold for that shit, man. What was I saying? But it was, I think I was going up there really scared that these are gonna be people who just, I'm gonna be working against quite a lot of assumptions and expectations of what I'm gonna say.

• 41:37Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 41:38Speaker 01

  Only for me to get there and every single show, and I'm not exaggerating, every single show, it felt like these were people coming in, clear eyes, full hearts, leaning forward and coming towards me and listening. And jokes about pain and grief and being confused. And calling the Samaritans actually just became a conversation about how difficult it is to be alive.

• 42:06Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  And we could all just sit with that in fifty five minutes. And it was just so, it was quite beautiful.

• 42:14Adam Buxton?

  Hmm.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was really be, I, I, it was transformative.

• 42:19Adam Buxton?

  And how did you feel then after getting the award? Have you started to think of those? I mean, I'm sh, I've never won a ki, an award like that, but I know that I would be overthinking it and thinking, oh, God, I don't know, like.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:33Adam Buxton?

  What do you do now? How do you live up to this? Is this gonna be a load of unhelpful expectations piled upon you?

• 42:40Speaker 01

  So much of that is around, and for me, it has been about the next of what do you do next? What does this mean for how you're perceived?

• 42:51Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  Because when I got nominated, I freaked out big time. I said, shit, now I'm gonna have to do more work. And I was like, and I hate Labour. I'm a lady of leisure. So I couldn't believe that this, what this means is that you have to do more work. Cause what's the next show gonna be? Then after the show, of course, you're going to do a podcast. After the podcast, BBC Radio Four, you're gonna do that one. And then you're gonna do a six by thirty, that's gonna be commissioned by Channel Four. And then after that one, you need to work up to the Emmys. The Emmys is gonna be tough because you're gonna need some friends in America, but you hate America. But then if you do the Emmys, it doesn't make sense that you don't go for the Oscar, the Tony, and of course, a sag after award.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  So that's how my brain was, and it was just.

• 43:39Adam Buxton?

  What a nightmare.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Oh, I was, I was goosebumps. So I think, I don't know, I'm I'm just very excited, because this is the best possible outcome.

• 43:47Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, good. Oh, well, I'm glad you, I mean, you seem to be enjoying it. You don't seem tortured by it.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  No, I'm having the time of my life because it's all good things.

• 43:56Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, good. I'm glad.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it can be quite fraught. And I think it's also, I remember them asking me what it feels like to be the first black woman to win this award.

• 44:07Adam Buxton?

  Is that the case?

• 44:08Speaker 01

  That is, that's what I found out.

• 44:10Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  And um, the cynic in me was thinking to myself, surely you should, they should be saying that with the appropriate level of shame, because this is not happening in a vacuum. I'm the first black woman to win this award because you, um, you, this is the first time you thought to give it to somebody like me. So I was kind of like, hmm, that is threatening to piss me off. But then I was able to reframe it. Because the pressure I was feeling from that question, it was, I think I responded that way because I was like, am I now supposed to fly the flag for every single non-white person who is going to win this award?

• 44:51Speaker 01

  As a trailblazer, because there's nothing I'm trailblazing, because it has been extremely easy for me. Very, very easy for me. And I think I need to be honest with myself about the ease. And how many steps of the way I've just been given a very wide berth. So with the wide berth comes, I guess, the the burden of a responsibility to create.

• 45:16Adam Buxton?

  Something worthwhile.

• 45:17Speaker 01

  Something worthwhile. And I, and I think it's just like, some things are just silly and nice, I think.

• 45:21Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  I did a, did two gigs yesterday, and I love doing gigs that are just like, like I do this gig called Emotional Capacity. And it's just, you know, it's it's for the girls and the gays. It's so silly. It's like, you know, you go to La Camionera on a Wednesday night, you have a margarita and you say funny things for seven minutes, like, whoop-de-doo. That's fantastic.

• 45:43Adam Buxton?

  What were you talking about last night then?

• 45:45Speaker 01

  Last night I spoke about the, the, well, I'm, I'm thinking about hate languages.

• 45:49Adam Buxton?

  Okay.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  Sort of the inverse of love languages. And I think because I perform in a lot of spaces where it's going to be the, either the sort of quite principled Gen Z, the small plates brigade, I call them. So very, very, you know, you'd, you'd do a charred broccolini, you'd go to a Jolene, don't mind if I do a fresh bread. It's almond milk, it's, it's very much, I'm on the right side of history here. But I do feel like there's a really interesting Venn diagram of sort of white supremacy, white liberal, and that middle point where they intersect. And I'm exploring that in sort of these spaces.

• 46:32Adam Buxton?

  They both like broccolini.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  They both like broccolini.

• 46:34Adam Buxton?

  What is broccolini?

• 46:35Speaker 01

  It's like the skinny.

• 46:37Adam Buxton?

  Oh.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  You know, like broccoli.

• 46:38Adam Buxton?

  Little broccoli?

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, little broccoli. So it's like broccoli with a, quite a long stem.

• 46:42Adam Buxton?

  Hmm.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  Picks up flavour very well.

• 46:44Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  But I think I do find that I'm performing in spaces, so even like, you know, the moth club, the hackney intelligentsia.

• 46:51Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  You know, the kind of thinking, this is, I think this is the point to laugh, right? Yeah, this is the point to laugh. You know, they're, they're just, they're quite knowing, they're cerebral. And a lot of times it's my worst, or it's my least favourite type of audience. Because, you know, they're thinking about what is the right thing to laugh at.

• 47:08Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  Um, and, and are detaching themselves from visceral reactions because they're subscribed to the New York Times. Um, so I'm trying to, to poke at them a little bit more.

• 47:18Adam Buxton?

  Sure, yeah. But I mean, that's the deal with so many things these days is you get the feeling that you are supposed to read from a script with a lot of things. And the truth, of course, about all of us is that we're blurred in many ways and there's a lot of crossover in the Venn diagram in one way or another.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  Yes, and to look at that crossover.

• 47:41Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  To examine it in yourself. So I used to perform on, a lot on PowerPoint. And I had a sort of like scale of white supremacy that actually starts in Walthamstow. Because there are a lot of people who imagine that they are somehow absolved from, you know, the ones with the flags, they're not, they're just not like us, like. I've got a black friend. I'm not that person, but you live in an up and coming area. So I would have people, especially in the audience, as I'm painting the picture of how blurred these lines are. And I'm thinking so, raise your hand if you live in Dolage.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  And they're thinking to themselves, oh, right, okay, I know where this is going.

• 48:28Adam Buxton?

  Yeah. I'm gonna be a white supremacist any second, aren't I?

• 48:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, any second now. I'm gonna, uh, this is, this is bad. And it's like, you know, the freeholders, they have a lot of trouble bearing the brunt of their privilege.

• 48:40Adam Buxton?

  Hmm.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  And not that privilege is anything to really, really feel bad about. I mean, we cannot. The circumstances of one's birth, I think we're just have gonna have to get over it, but. I am really e- excited about radicalizing, not just the white working class, but the small plates brigade as well.

• 48:59Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm. How would you navigate it if you were then in somebody's sights who was talking about your privilege and your class background?

• 49:09Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. And I would, you see, this is the difference between our class warfare.

• 49:14Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  In Nigeria versus here. In some ways, I find it very intriguing that you would be arguing with somebody that you're the poorer one in the group.

• 49:24Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  It's extremely, it's unheard of where I'm from. You are rich and you're rich proudly. You're wealthy and you're wealthy with vim. You wait on your wrist and it's probably gonna be an A P. If you're a bit, mm, it would be Rolex. That's not, we're not really trying to do that right now. But I find it so interesting that you would be ashamed that you were raised with means. And I think if more people were just like, look, cars on the table. I can't, I can't lie to you. There were staff in my house.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  There were staff in my house and that's why I prefer taking an Uber.

• 50:08Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, well, the the reason that you would downplay that is because currently so many of the conversations are around power.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 50:18Adam Buxton?

  And power dynamics and who suffers for your privilege and.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 50:22Adam Buxton?

  You know.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Yes, and and I think that I feel a sense of responsibility, especially in my context, because our class warfare is so stark. And I find that that is a conversation I have with especially like the Nigerian one percent, our conversation is going to, when it starts properly, is going to be really scary.

• 50:42Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Because we have so much to lose, so much to lose, but you need to be willing to lose it. That's just how it works. And I think guilt is very useless as a as a guilt and shame and not they're not propulsive. And I find that a lot of the the conversations around and if somebody pointed out my privilege, we would start, we would have a conversation about it.

• 51:04Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm. So when you're tweaking the anxiety nipples of the um

• 51:10Speaker 01

  That's insane.

• 51:11Adam Buxton?

  audience there, talking about the white supremacy spectrum.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 51:15Adam Buxton?

  What are you hoping that they will go away with? Is guilt not the most likely thing that they will feel?

• 51:24Speaker 01

  And this is where I'm really trying to, and this is like my assignment to myself is like, how do you? How do you mobilize a group of people? And it might not be to mobilize on a sort of broader political scale, but just like it might be mobilizing thought, it might be um expanding frames of reference, for example, but I'm trying to move away from confrontational, a sort of finger pointing. Um, spreading of suffering, because that's what I was trying to do initially, was to make people feel bad. And I wanted to to be the only black person on the lineup and I wanted to make people feel horrible.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  About themselves, which is not nice and it's not useful. And it would be funny because there's a sense of self-flagellation that I get from certain types of audiences. But they want to feel uncomfortable and they really like it. And I'm now trying to figure out what are, what are starting points that come with a levity and a curiosity. Uh, you know, like kunk-esque questioning with a bit less of an edge where you're like the intrepid explorer.

• 52:33Adam Buxton?

  Philomena kunk, that is.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:35Adam Buxton?

  I haven't heard the expression kunk-esque before.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I love kunk.

• 52:38Adam Buxton?

  Oh, she's great.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  I'm obsessed, um. But that kind of like questioning where you.

• 52:43Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 52:44Speaker 01

  It feels like a stupid question, but it blows the whole thing wide open.

• 52:48Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  And I think coming with that curiosity and trying to play around with that. Where we don't have to make each other feel terrible.

• 52:58Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  About the circumstances of our birth. But we can begin to interrogate it actively. And I think that's what I'm having the most like, I guess, fun with, but also trouble with of like, how do I approach this? With a whimsy or with a, in good faith.

• 53:16Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. With some warmth and some affection for the audience.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Exactly, which is what like swings and roundabouts was, that was what made it so easy to perform was like, it needs to be in good faith.

• 53:30Adam Buxton?

  Yes.

• 53:35Adam Buxton?

  Yes, please.

• 53:39Adam Buxton?

  Yep.

• 53:43Adam Buxton?

  Yes.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  Do you have dietary requirements?

• 53:46Adam Buxton?

  Dietary requirements, I mean. Um, how do you mean?

• 53:52Speaker 01

  So any allergies or?

• 53:55Adam Buxton?

  Not really. I mean, the older I get, the more I have to think about how my gut is going to cope with certain things.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Right, okay. How did you come to this world? Is it vaginal or cesarean?

• 54:04Adam Buxton?

  Oh, um, I think it's vaginal.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  Vaginal, okay. Do you know if it was spontaneous or induced?

• 54:11Adam Buxton?

  I don't know, I'm afraid. I don't have that information. My mum never chatted about those kinds of things.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  Hmm, okay. What's your, when's your birthday?

• 54:20Adam Buxton?

  Seventh of June nineteen sixty nine.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Seventh of June nineteen sixty nine. June is tour.

• 54:26Adam Buxton?

  I'm being heavily profiled here.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  Is it Taurus?

• 54:29Adam Buxton?

  Uh, no, Gemini.

• 54:30Speaker 01

  Gemini?

• 54:31Adam Buxton?

  The dirty, two-faced.

• 54:32Speaker 01

  No, let me tell you something about Geminis.

• 54:35Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, are you into all this stuff?

• 54:36Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 54:36Adam Buxton?

  Of course.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Let me tell you something about Geminis. A Gemini man obviously should be born in jail or have to work his way out. That is clear. But every once in a while, that duplicity is actually manifesting as spontaneity. You get to reinvent yourself every two hours. It's not that you're capricious, it's that you're curious.

• 55:00Adam Buxton?

  Yes.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  About all the flavors that life has to offer. You contain multitudes.

• 55:04Adam Buxton?

  Oh, mate, there's another one for the poster.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:07Adam Buxton?

  Thank you.

• 55:10Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, I'll take all of that. No, I, I, I never felt too, uh, much like I was two-faced.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  What's your relationship with lying?

• 55:20Adam Buxton?

  Lying, don't lie. I don't lie. I really, really try hard not to lie.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Do you feel uncomfortable when you do lie?

• 55:26Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, I really, really try hard not to.

• 55:29Speaker 01

  It doesn't roll off the tongue?

• 55:30Adam Buxton?

  No, I don't like it. I really, it really scrambles my mind when I see people doing it. I don't get it. I do get it, obviously. I'm not mad.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  But for yourself.

• 55:39Adam Buxton?

  But for myself, and it affected genuinely, I mean, I'm really talking it up, and at some point I will be caught in a massive lie and then this will come back to haunt me. But.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  An illegitimate child.

• 55:50Adam Buxton?

  It does, yeah. But, um, it does offend me. And it, it, it's one of the things, it's one of the big things that offends me about trample still skin. I just think, don't lie, don't lie. And when it's like you're, when it's the main tool in your.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  In your arsenal.

• 56:06Adam Buxton?

  In your arsenal. I just think, oh, no, don't lie.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  It's, it's, so it, there's a visceral reaction there.

• 56:13Adam Buxton?

  I don't want to go out with any liars. I don't want to hang out with any liars. No.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 56:17Adam Buxton?

  How about you? Do you love to lie?

• 56:19Speaker 01

  I, yes, I, so I, I do love, I love female liars and I love a, I love it as a tool of psychological warfare.

• 56:29Adam Buxton?

  Okay.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  But I do think that it is a tricky one.

• 56:36Speaker 01

  But I think honesty as a sort of moral high ground, I have a lot of issues with.

• 56:43Adam Buxton?

  Blimey, why'd you say that?

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Um, I think sometimes, how do I say this without sounding insane?

• 56:51Adam Buxton?

  Without honesty shaming me.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Without honesty shaming you. No, I I I love what honesty represents and what it could represent, an purity of existence, but. I think in where we found ourselves and me in my day to day. I do use lies as a way to preserve my energy. And to conserve my energy. Um, and I think structurally, lies can become very useful for the disenfranchised. Um.

• 57:21Adam Buxton?

  Can you give me an example?

• 57:22Speaker 01

  So, for example, if I had to lie to assert my humanity or my. Position in a space, for example, this is wrong. But I once told a sort of more senior colleague in a work environment and he's Irish, white Irish. I told him that I'd read Ulysses cover to cover. And it immediately endeared me to him in a way that made my working life. Very enjoyable.

• 57:58Adam Buxton?

  Did you know enough about Ulysses to fake it if he said, oh, I love Ulysses too because I'm Irish?

• 58:05Speaker 01

  Uh, yes.

• 58:05Adam Buxton?

  Let's chat about it.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  So that's the thing with me, when the lie is sort of an existential one, the research would be extensive. So there was Cliff Notes open, um.

• 58:19Adam Buxton?

  After you told the lie?

• 58:20Speaker 01

  After I told the lie.

• 58:22Adam Buxton?

  You immediately had to go and actually read Ulysses.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Check immediately.

• 58:27Speaker 01

  And you know, and that's a bit of a stream of consciousness like that, where it's like you have a much wider berth.

• 58:32Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 58:33Speaker 01

  When it comes to um pretending that you're familiar with that text. But it's one of the the most beneficial lies that I've told. And for me, that is an example of where more where that came from.

• 58:50Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, as we're having this conversation, I'm thinking of all the ways that I probably do lie and I have lied. And I've just not thought of them as lies because they seem non harmful.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  Yes, even the stuff like when I'm, if I'm in an Uber and the driver's asking me questions.

• 59:05Adam Buxton?

  That's exactly the scenario I was thinking of, yeah.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  The my story has changed two thousand times.

• 59:11Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  Mother of two, I'm having to head to the G P to get, you know, the little one, she is, she's just picked up something so. Flemmy at school and let's end the conversation there.

• 59:25Adam Buxton?

  It's a funny space, isn't it? Because you do suddenly feel emboldened to just try out a new persona, an entirely new life.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  Delicious.

• 59:33Adam Buxton?

  I've done that as well. I've I used to do um, I used to do an accent. I used to talk like David Bowie. I've talked about this before, but sometimes I would I would speak like that. I'd say, yeah, I've had a hell of a day, I'll tell you. And I'd start talking about what I'd been up to. And I think I would pretend sometimes that I was an A and R man for a record company.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  You wouldn't.

• 59:52Adam Buxton?

  Yes, more than once. And I'd talk about some of the stuff that I'd been listening to. Partly it was a build up to, sometimes it was a build up to putting on my headphones and checking out the conversation.

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  Because the way you even slipped into that as a sort of, it it felt very natural to you.

• 1:00:10Adam Buxton?

  Yes.

• 1:00:11Speaker 01

  And and my favorite kind of dishonesty is the one that creates worlds where you actually believe what you're saying. You know, but it's it must be harmless. It needs to be, it needs to be the kind of uh. Lie that you meet a person and you're you're a valley girl. You just, so they think you're American.

• 1:00:34Adam Buxton?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  For the entire exchange and that's just it. You have to believe that, that that is your existence. You believe the backstory and you get, you get some entertainment out of it.

• 1:00:46Adam Buxton?

  Sure. I mean, the thing is that if they found out you weren't.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  Oh, they think you're a psychopath.

• 1:00:52Adam Buxton?

  They think you're a psycho. Also, they would be slightly humiliated for having believed you maybe.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, they would. And it would take some undoing if that if that relationship was going to continue.

• 1:01:04Adam Buxton?

  Now, here's a boring question for you.

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  I don't think you've asked me one boring question.

• 1:01:10Adam Buxton?

  What, has there been a conversation with your powerful representatives about the Googling problems associated with Iwade as a comedian? And the fact that the hits you're gonna get are probably gonna be Richard based.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  No, but I I found it, you know, without Richard Iwade, introducing myself would have been a nightmare.

• 1:01:31Adam Buxton?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  He's been a massive help.

• 1:01:33Adam Buxton?

  All right, that's good.

• 1:01:34Speaker 01

  To me.

• 1:01:34Adam Buxton?

  Did you see him and David Letterman chatting in America recently on stage?

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  That sounds like a nightmare, I'm sorry. I I really do, I I it just sounds like a nightmare, I'm like.

• 1:01:47Adam Buxton?

  Why?

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  I it's, I think men talking at scale is just so jar, it's really jarring to me.

• 1:01:54Adam Buxton?

  At scale, you mean in front of an audience, a big audience?

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, just the the sort of male perspective amplified.

• 1:02:02Adam Buxton?

  That's a very general statement, men talking.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  And and and and as you say that, I feel like I need to double down. You know, I I I, men should not be public facing, they should be, they should, they should operate with a sort of demure and measured.

• 1:02:21Adam Buxton?

  Apologetic.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  Apologetic, you're scaring us. You are scaring us. And I think that is, it's just that kind of, oh, I'm sorry, I just, it really, it really rubs me the wrong way.

• 1:02:33Adam Buxton?

  I mean, not to push back too hard, you're my guest, but I don't think Richard Iwade and David Letterman are the big problems there.

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  You know.

• 1:02:43Adam Buxton?

  In what you're talking about.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  In what I'm talking about. It is, it is a, and I'm able to, I'm able to concede on that of what is a personal gripe. And what is a sort of systemic issue that threatens our existence. Obviously, this is the latter. And the moments at which we get less men talking.

• 1:03:03Adam Buxton?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  Then we can move forward.

• 1:03:07Adam Buxton?

  Fair enough. I promise not to do this podcast for, well, I won't be doing it in another ten years. How about that?

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  I think you should. So you know what? I'm, this is where nuance is really beautiful.

• 1:03:18Adam Buxton?

  Okay.

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  Right? And I think nuances are very used in the West for sure, but

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  I think you're great. And I have forgotten that you're a man on several occasions over the point of this, the, the duration of this experience. You could be anyone.

• 1:03:36Adam Buxton?

  Thanks very much.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you have a sort of, you, there is a, there is a sort of divine femininity that is existing in this space.

• 1:03:44Adam Buxton?

  Oh, this is good. I love it.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  That I've obviously brought into, brought in, but you fostered it.

• 1:03:49Adam Buxton?

  Sure. It's on my poster. That's going on the poster.

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  You're gonna, can you, can you, um?

• 1:03:54Adam Buxton?

  A divine femininity.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  Can you please record a song that's titled that?

• 1:03:59Adam Buxton?

  Sure. Divine femininity. That's what I got.

• 1:04:08Adam Buxton?

  Just ask my wife, she'll tell you. Oh, yeah. He's got a lot.

• 1:04:16Adam Buxton?

  It's in the way I'm so patient and kind with people who simply refuse to put back my favourite kitchen knife in the block where it belongs. I don't know why that seems to be so hard.

• 1:04:40Adam Buxton?

  Wait.

• 1:04:41Speaker 03

  This is an ad for Squarespace.

• 1:04:44Speaker 03

  Okay, we'll return to the AI apocalypse in just a wee wee moment, but first I wanted to talk about Squarespace. Do you know about Squarespace, Steve? Uh, yes, Monty. I think I might even be a little bit more tuned into modern tech, websites, et cetera, than you. I don't know, just guessing. Oh, Steve, I love this dynamic. I'm old and conservative and you're young and progressive and that's what makes the Newswind podcast such great listening. But yes, you're right, I must admit, I didn't know much about Squarespace. But because my new grumble book, Hell in a Handcart, is out this month, and I look forward to getting enraged by that, so I should hope. Em, um, um. Anyway, the publishers, Bluestar and Dogwhistle, made a beautiful website for the book using Squarespace. I know, I got the newsletter that you sent out using Squarespace and the website does look great. Videos of you airing your views, members' areas for your mad fans. You've even got a merch store, I see.

• 1:05:29Speaker 03

  That's right, a Union Jack top hat is a big seller. But they constructed it all so fast with Squarespace. They did most of it over one lunchtime, Steve. Well, you wouldn't want to spend much longer on it, would you? Shut up, Steve. But here's the thing, anyone listening to this can start a free trial right now at Squarespace.com/boxton and see how easy and versatile Squarespace is. And when they're ready to launch a new website or domain, they can save 10% off their first purchase by using the offer code BOXTON at checkout. Right, well, maybe I'll visit Squarespace.com/boxton and start a new website just to refute all the nonsense in your new book. Oh, don't do that, Steve. I will. Oh, shut up, Steve. Uh. Shut up. Now, back to more depressing matters on Newswind.

• 1:06:08Adam Buxton?

  Continue.

• 1:06:09Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:06:19Adam Buxton?

  Hey, welcome back, podcasts. That was Ayawadi Bamboya talking to me there with a little bit of divine femininity at the end. A reminder, Ayawadi's show Swings and Roundabouts is at the Soho Theatre, although I think this run is sold out. But she's back in January and I think tickets are available for those shows. There's a link in the description to the Soho Theatre page. Anyway, I'm very grateful to Ayawadi for making the time to come and talk to me. Really enjoyed meeting her and I hope our paths will cross again before too long. Well, they will, because I'll go and see her show. But after that.

• 1:07:01Adam Buxton?

  In the description, as well as that link to the Soho Theatre, there's a couple of short videos. There's her just after she received her Edinburgh Award. There's that short spoof of This Morning, written by Ayoade and starring her alongside Daniel Rigby. There is a video by the author of The Forty Eight Laws of Power, Robert Greene, who is obligingly summarizing all forty-eight laws of power in under eight minutes, which I think is very reasonable. And there is a trailer for The Lost Bus, directed by Paul Greengrass, and starring America Ferrera and Matthew McConaughey,

• 1:07:46Adam Buxton?

  who was going to come on the podcast to talk about The Lost Bus as part of his publicity junkets, but in the end, it didn't work out. But anyway, the reason I included the trailer for the film was that I think you should see it. I mean, obviously I have no obligation to the actual film company, but I watched the film over the weekend and it was very good. But it's based on a true story about a bus driver who has to navigate a bus carrying schoolchildren and their teacher to safety through the 2018 Camp Fire, which became the deadliest fire in California history.

• 1:08:27Adam Buxton?

  And one of the larger communities it raged through was called Paradise out there. There's a documentary by Ron Howard called Rebuilding Paradise, which tells you more of the true story of how it happened, but the film presses the extreme special effects drama button pretty hard and has some stuff of them driving through this hellish fiery landscape, which I don't think is completely accurate. But anyway, accuracy aside, it's really a terrific film. What else can I tell you? Um, I mean, you know, usual stuff. Come along to a show.

• 1:09:10Adam Buxton?

  I'm going to be in Wimbledon this Friday, talking to Samira Ahmed about I Love You Bye, showing some clips.

• 1:09:19Adam Buxton?

  And that'll be the penultimate book show that I will be doing this year. The final one will be at the Royal Festival Hall on the twenty sixth of October, which is a Sunday. And I will do my best to cover different ground in case you fancy coming to the Wimbledon and the Royal Festival Hall show. I'll try and make them as different as possible. I'm sure there'll be a little bit of crossover, but I'll play some different clips. And of course, at the Royal Festival Hall, there will be live music, which they won't be at the Wimbledon show. However, there will be Samira Ahmed, which they won't be at the Royal Festival Hall show. There'll be a different moderator. This is too much info, isn't it? Anyway, link in the description for those shows.

• 1:10:05Adam Buxton?

  What else can I tell you about? Well, at some point, I'm going to be on House of Games. I mean, I have been on House of Games. It's recorded. I've no idea when it's going out. I recorded a couple of episodes of this podcast, one in particular, in which I talk about my experience on House of Games, quite stupidly, because now I can't put it out until the House of Games episodes have been out. And I was also a guest on another podcast on which I talked about it as well, which was a real pain in the ass for the host, who had to then go back and cut out the section with me talking about House of Games. Anyway, that podcast, by the way,

• 1:10:46Adam Buxton?

  was The Trouble With, hosted by poet-comedian Molly Naylor, N-A-Y-L-O-R. And that episode is now out. Join Molly and Adam Buxton for a conversation about sensitivity and the way it impedes and sometimes enhances our creativity. Also touched on stagecraft, comparisons, twisters, the lolly, not the weather, and how to relax and accept yourself while not wanging on about relaxing and accepting yourself too much. Thank you, Molly. I'll put a link to Molly's podcast in the description. I was honoured to join her. She's a fellow Norwich dweller.

• 1:11:29Adam Buxton?

  Okay, that's it for this week's podcast. There's only so much inconsequential buckles news that one person can take, isn't there? Thanks to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his invaluable production support. Much appreciated, Seamus. Thank you to all at Acast who help liaise with my sponsors and keep this whole show on the rod. Thanks to Helen Green, she does the illustration of my face for this podcast and for my books and for the album. She's amazing. Thank you, Helen. But thanks most of all to you. I don't know what I'd do without you. Uh, I'd probably carry on doing this, actually, but just with less listeners and no sponsors, and then I'd

• 1:12:14Adam Buxton?

  stop. So I'm very grateful to you for coming back. I washed my fleece fairly recently, so I don't think you'll find it too funky if we have a creepy hug. Come here. Hey, good to see you. Hope you're doing all right. Until next time, we share the same sonic space. Please go carefully, it is ridiculous out there. And for what it's worth, I love you. Bye!