NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to react (and possibly overreact) to all the NBA Playoff games (2:18). Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Ryen Russillo Producers: Chia Hao Tat, Chris Sutton, and Steve Ceruti #ULTRACourtside could get you closer to the game! michelobultra.com/courtside ENJOY RESPONSIBLY ©️ 2025 ANHEUSER-BUSCH, MICHELOB ULTRA®️ LIGHT BEER, ST. LOUIS, MO. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  You're listening to the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action. And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com/rg to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus, president of select states. Game and problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, first two days of the NBA playoffs are in the books. We have a lot of subplots. We're going to talk about all of them with Ryan Rusillo, next. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. It's football season.

• 0:44Bill Simmons?

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• 1:29Bill Simmons?

  See app for details. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. I have new rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. We did Minority Report. It is our 17th Tom Cruise movie and I think it's our eighth Steven Spielberg movie. So Cruise is number one by four movies and Spielberg is in second place. So that is coming Monday and you can watch it on Ringer Movies as well. I talked about Sinners a little bit with Van Lathan. That's a special video on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. So you can check that out as well. Don't forget episode eight of Celtic City. So we got two basketball games tomorrow night. Finish the second one. Then plow right into Celtic City because it's a, it's a really good one. It's basically about the KG era in the 2000s and 2008 title.

• 2:14Bill Simmons?

  And all of those guys are interviewed and all their interviews are really, really good. And I think it's a really, really, really entertaining watch. Celtic City HBO 9pm and then it is on Max as well. So there you go. Coming up, Russel and I are going to rip through all of the NBA playoff subplots from Two Wild Days. We did this live on YouTube at nine o'clock. So you're about to listen to it first, our friends from Pro J.

• 3:09Bill Simmons?

  All right, 9:04pm, Russel and I are going live on YouTube for the BS Podcast. Russel, good to see you. We just watched eight games in two days, including the Warriors beating the Rockets in a rock fight. All right, so those eight games, Russel, did any of them change what you thought specifically heading into a series? And we'll talk about Warriors Rockets in a second, but out of those eight, did anything flip your opinion? Because I'm ready to overreact.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Uh, no. Now that I think about it, I don't know that there's anything that happened this weekend. Yeah, nothing.

• 3:44Bill Simmons?

  Nothing, 0 for 8.

• 3:48Bill Simmons?

  I have one, I have a half one.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  It seems like you have one. What is it?

• 3:52Bill Simmons?

  I have a half one. I thought that Minnesota Laker game. Was a worst case scenario for the Lakers in a lot of different ways and I want to tackle it in a second, but that was the only one because I thought Lakers in seven, I thought they'd have the history, but watching some of the matchups and some of the stuff Minnesota did and the fact that the Lakers didn't have a lot of options for a counter, it just kind of made me tilt my head a little bit. I still don't know what's going to happen. I'm really interested in game two, but we'll talk about that. Let's talk about Warriors Rockets. So we had in the Warriors Rockets. My fear for the Warriors was they got 75 points in that Memphis game from Curry and Butler. And if these games go into the 110 to 120 range,

• 4:34Bill Simmons?

  where are they getting all those points from, right? Then the Rockets fears are, well, what happens when we get to the playoffs and somebody turns defense up on them? How are they going to score? Well, that fear went out over the other fear because the Rockets couldn't score and it was, it was a karaoke greatest hits of all the terrible fourth quarters we've watched from the Rockets all year. It was really, really bad. What are the fixes? What'd you see today?

• 5:01Speaker 01

  They get down 23, right? And at one point you're going, this team only has 41 points in an NBA game. Like what's, what's going on here? But we knew that the offense was the more challenging part of it despite the great regular season and at least on paper, the different options they have. But Jalen Green's terrible tonight. Van Vliet can't hit a shot. He hits that three. He'd started one for 10. So at that moment, it felt like kind of a big three. The question I would have for Udoka after this is you got back into this game being huge and Golden State doesn't have a big lineup. They can, they can run Looney out there for a little bit if they want to. Clearly they're not comfortable with that. Post is a stretch five and he's just going to foul everybody.

• 5:38Bill Simmons?

  How about Post is just a stretch? It was a stretch to have out there for 12 minutes. He was a stretch. Why are you out there? Anyway, go ahead.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Draymond finished with a four, six and three stat line because he's tasked with playing Shingun and the way he was playing off of Shingun, like it was the one thing that was actually working for Houston because I think Shingun deserves a lot of credit for going, okay, if this is how you're going to play me, like I'm, I'm going to pull up, like I've got a little bit more touch. But that stretch of like the first six minutes of the fourth quarter, when Houston got back into this, they got back into it being huge. Steven Adams was a beast and even if, you know, Golden State couldn't get a rebound to save their lives and when they would contest anything, there were fouls and granted Houston to make their free throws. So I guess I would just wonder. Did Ime do Golden State a favor by bringing in their best offensive player back into the game

• 6:29Speaker 01

  and getting away from the size that was just overwhelming Golden State? It wasn't pretty, but Golden State couldn't do anything with it. But then at 519, Adams is out. I mean, I'd love to ask her, like in a moment of honesty, were you thrilled when they took Adams out of the game?

• 6:45Bill Simmons?

  Right. It was 66, 47, five minutes left in the third. And Shengun made that just ridiculous shot clock beating three in the buzzer that never should have gone in. Right. It's like, all right, I marked that one down. And then Adams kind of took over the game the rest of the third quarter. And then into the fourth, he was getting those offensive rebounds. Easton had a couple of big defensive plays. And it just felt like there was some sort of combination of guys that would be the right combination. And it was like watching somebody work up safe in a Benkice movie. It's like, ah, you gotta get it. And he just kind of never unlocked it. And I think if I'm leaving that game and I'm watching the tape, I'm really interested in the double bigs. I'm really interested in double bigs with Jabari.

• 7:26Bill Simmons?

  I think I'd want to see Easton more because I just thought he was just a major issue the whole time. Thompson is the one, Thompson just looked like a guy who had been, had smoke up, blown up his ass all week that he should have been defensive player of the year. And all of a sudden, he's in a playoff game guarding Steph Curry and Butler, and he just wasn't good. The Van Vliet thing, we've seen a bunch of times though. We've seen him have those games and over and over again, it seems like when everything stalls, it's just him jacking up 24, 25 footers. And I don't know how he fixed that because that was the worst of Jalen Green today. When he's just like going to the basket as hard, he has like no gears. He's either fifth gear or first gear. And he's just going to the basket, flying in, either trying to get fouled or whipping off the backboard.

• 8:09Bill Simmons?

  They don't have that one, Sedlar, and that's why like it was so interesting to talk about them in February. I felt they were a year away. So did you. But it's like, man, if they could just get one guy who could, I got you guys. Let me get a couple of baskets here. With much the way Butler was, was doing it for the Warriors down the stretch and tonight. And they're missing it. And yet I don't think they're out of this series. This is not like an overreaction. Uh oh, the Warriors have control because they only scored, you know, they scored less than a hundred points too. I just think this is going to be a rock fight series and Houston has a lot of wild card guys. So great win. I think I still feel like this is going to be a long series.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  I agree with you on that one. I mean, there's going to be a night where, you know, Steph isn't going to be able to bail him out, probably because they put so much attention on him. Especially like if it's a close game in the step positions, two were staying with Steph. He had a turnover. He had another one where it should have been a turnover where he let himself get trapped at half court. But they didn't have a challenge because they already challenged the Pajemski drive. So there'll be, there'll be times where the stuff off of Steph is a bit of a letdown. Like Moses Moody hitting that three tonight in the corner. It was probably the biggest three. Because it's like, all right, finally, like it's always the third shot. Yeah, it's, it's the third shot taker for this group because, you know, clearly there's nights where Curry can do what he did tonight.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  And there's nothing you can do. And he's just going to hit a bunch of ridiculous shots. That's not going to happen. You know, I don't know that you can bank on that for four wins. Maybe you can in a seven game series, but I look at the Pajemski minutes and he looks confused. I almost don't like the ball in his hands right now. And if he misses a few, this is a guy who has a ton of confidence to even get to this point. But I think you can see it happening on the court where it's like, oh, he's hesitant now. He's a little shot. And then if you end up with like a Gary Payton second corner open look like Houston gladly take that.

• 10:01Bill Simmons?

  Same for post. Don't forget to throw in post in this conversation. I think they're good with all wide open threes from him until he makes one.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Right. They're going to play off of Draymond a ton and Draymond will have better offensive nights, but it's still like if he has another single digit night. It's not going to be that big of a deal. And Butler even had like a stretch where I was like, where are you? Like, where are you? And then he was able to, you know, because even if he got Shingun or Adams in a switch, he's not the kind of guy who's just going to like fly past them. He wants to dribble to a spot and pull up and try to get away with a clean look like, you know, without much of a contest there. So yeah, I think there's going to be nights where Golden State against this Houston defense is going to look really lost. But I, I wonder internally if the Rockets, Rockets coaching staff is going, did we let them off the hook a little bit by going with Shingun, who was our best offensive player?

• 10:50Speaker 01

  Because it wasn't like they did anything great on offense. They just had multiple possessions and Golden State was just overwhelmed. Like you would see all this traffic at the Rockets hoop. And you couldn't see the blue jerseys because they were so much smaller than the guys in red.

• 11:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that was like the scrappy, like the football team of like scrappy, smaller guys battling some bad massive offensive line. They were able to get away with some stuff tonight that I don't know if it's going to work in later rounds for the record. Like Butler played 42 minutes tonight. Right? Curry played 39. Once you start going every other day, the way they were leaning those guys. Curry also was really quiet and then all of a sudden got hot, which is usually a danger for the other team. If he's slow first quarter and it reminded me of that. What was the best game he ever played? What was that? 2019? When he was quiet in the first half and then just completely annihilated Houston in the second half?

• 11:43Speaker 01

  It's my favorite Steph game of all time.

• 11:45Bill Simmons?

  It is. He was your number one. Um, listen, if Houston, if Golden State can play those five guys together and get away with it, I, I think they're delighted. If they can play Moody and Podzemski with the three and, and they can rebound just enough and they can defend just enough, but then get what they want offensively and Moody can step up like he did with that three. That's where they want to be. I don't know if that's going to work for four rounds. And I, I'm going to say it again, and this is the most polarized Warriors topic. I just find it hard to believe Kaminga can't play 12 minutes a game for this team. I find it hard to believe. And it just seems like they're completely out. I just find it hard to believe he wouldn't have been better than those 12 Quentin post minutes.

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Don't you have to defer to Kerr on this one though?

• 12:34Bill Simmons?

  I do. I, I get it. That's, that's why I, I tiptoe into it. I'm just hesitant, but I just like, man, because at least with Kaminga, he's, he's unafraid. He's athletic and he's going to fight. And I like, there's just, I don't know. There was that one Santos play when he just like lost the ball. Like they just have dudes that are out there where you're like, man, what's this going to look like if you're playing OKC in a series? You have these guys out there against that OKC team we saw today? So I think they can patch it together.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  They closed the third quarter of four minutes, the last four minutes. They didn't hit a shot.

• 13:12Bill Simmons?

  And they were bad shots. There was like shot clock violation. You know, it was, it was like bad, bad stuff. So look, they have to go 12 and nine to make the finals. Now they have to go 11 and Could it happen? Sure. But you know, it's it this is they they still feel like they're a guy short to me, Russillo. I can't shake it.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  All the there's there's this collection of teams where you you look at the Clippers numbers after a certain point and you go, oh, my God, like, look at that. And I know we're going to talk about him. And then, yeah, you know, I swear to God, TNT and ESPN love to throw up the Jimmy Butler trade graphic like four times. It's like a read. I don't know if it's sponsored or not. But they'll just say, hey, since the All Star break, like, and it's it is really interesting. But you always have to remember, like, we're not the normal audience. So they're getting everybody up to date on like, what the story has been. So you have this Golden State thing that feels entirely different, the Clippers thing that feels different. I think Minnesota, for whatever reason, has been completely overlooked as we'll get to that game because I can't wait to talk about that one. But I haven't really looked at Golden State, even with that split post the Butler trade because of

• 14:14Speaker 01

  some of the limitations and because of their preference to be small and not have any big option. Like, you're talking about him going, hey, you only have to win 11 more games to get to the final. I think I don't even.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  I don't know. I'm surprised you're even like, mapping it out that way. Do you really think they have a chance to win in the West? Did you think that?

• 14:31Bill Simmons?

  I like the bracket they're in more. Right? They play the winner of Lakers, Minnesota.

• 14:38Bill Simmons?

  And from what we saw last night in that game, you know, two flawed teams. Minnesota looked great last night. The Lakers looked terrible. Both have some pluses and minuses. But I think they're in the right side of the bracket. And then you think, OK, see, maybe it doesn't matter the way. OK, see, it's just completely terrifying. I was thinking that Butler graphic you mentioned. Maybe they maybe just they feel like the casual ESPN fans can't understand how Jimmy Butler ended up on the Warriors. It just doesn't make sense when you're watching one of these games. You're like, how did they get that? What'd they give up? Wiggins? What? Wiggins, Schroder, Kyle Anderson? That was there more in there? No, there wasn't. Houston

• 15:20Bill Simmons?

  going forward because we have three days between games, which means we have a Monday and Tuesday of what's Houston going to do if they can't get this going? And they'll be a trade machine team. I think they're young. The biggest question they

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Took us 12 minutes to get to Houston.

• 15:37Bill Simmons?

  The big question is this Van Vliet player option thing. If you're talking trade machine stuff, but I, and I don't know if I'm just, it's because what we do for a living. But when I watch them, I'm constantly thinking of what player I would add to make them a championship contender, because it's clearly not the team they have now, which I still think is a very good team. But there's, there's something that they need. And so when I watch it, I'm like, hmm, I wonder with Booker, would you just like pay 200 cents on the dollar for Booker? Just give Ishbia the ultimate life raft or what would you do? But anyway, that, that stuff's going to go the next two days.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, that'd be too early. This series, I think there's going to be a night where Houston looks so much better than Golden State.

• 16:20Bill Simmons?

  Do you think Houston's, we look great when we're up 12 team? You know, we have those teams.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. Who looks bad when they're up 20? Like, who looks like they're having a bad time?

• 16:30Bill Simmons?

  The Celtics.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Is there any team?

• 16:34Bill Simmons?

  The Celtics, it's always the most dangerous when they're up 22. It's, I don't know. Call timeout. Keep these guys in check.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  And look, they're down 23 to this group with this offense and I cannot, I'll say it again.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  They didn't really even do anything that was that great on offense to get back into this. It wasn't like they got hot from three. It wasn't like, oh, okay, this guy's cooking or they can't guard this guy. They're hunting, they're hunting this dude. It's just, hey, we were big. So that's something that they can go to. That, that's not shooting variance. That's something that they know when they watch this film, they go, we might want to go to it earlier, you know? There's also something too, when you're down 23, the effort that it takes you to come back and cut it to three points. And then you start timing it out, be like, can they sustain this for another five minutes?

• 17:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  Like, that'll happen a lot too. It's like, you're right there. You're right. You're just about.

• 17:28Bill Simmons?

  They were like within four at one point.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  It was three points.

• 17:31Bill Simmons?

  Four point game. Yeah. Didn't, never felt like it, but then all of a sudden it was close. Um, when you did all the draft work for the Jabari Smith draft.

• 17:41Bill Simmons?

  Did you think he would be a better scorer than this?

• 17:45Speaker 01

  Well, he had to develop more of a handle. That was a major flag for him. And he had those guards from Auburn who didn't want to give him the ball a ton. But you looked at like the best version of him going, if you can get a bit of a handle and get to his spot, his shooting, his defensive instincts, the rebounding, all that. By the way, I know he wasn't good tonight. But he's been better the last few months. I think it's the most comfortable he's ever looked offensively. You know, I don't know that you're ever going to be running like a side pick and roll for him. And then if he gets cut off, he's going to reset with the dribble probe and then go like, I don't know if he's ever going to be that guy. But like, that was the biggest difference is Paulo, he could get wherever he wanted to as a draft prospect at that size.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  And with Jabari, he felt a bit like a true dribble guy, even though I still really liked him a lot.

• 18:34Bill Simmons?

  I like him. The most, the Rockets, the offense was brutal to watch, but they, there was one time in the fourth quarter when they posted up Thompson on Curry. And he kind of, and he kind of whirled into the paint, had this little jump hook. And I was like, hmm, that's something. Like instead of just having these guys facing the basket and flying toward the basket and bouncing off dudes, whipping off the backboard. Maybe, you know, try to use their athleticism, try to put them in different parts of the thing. So we'll see, we'll see, uh, we'll see what they do heading into, uh, heading into game two. I, I, I think, I still think it's going to be a long series. That's where I sit. Hey, Russillo, are you a forward thinker? Because if you are, you need an HR and finance platform that thinks like you do.

• 19:19Bill Simmons?

  Workday is the AI platform that helps propel your organization, your workforce and your entire industry into the future. Workday moving business forever forward, which leads us to Minnesota and the Lakers. They make this Towns trade right before the season. They get DePacenza and they get Randall and it's controversial. And the trade was on full display yesterday and I thought Towns was excellent in that Pistons game. But Minnesota looked really good against the Lakers. And I think the thing that I saw last night rewatching that game, because I was, I was at WrestleMania last night, but I was able to power through it this morning.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  Should we leave with that?

• 19:59Bill Simmons?

  I have some C N A stuff for you at the end.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 20:04Bill Simmons?

  Minnesota's just, I know, I'll give you a heads up.

• 20:11Bill Simmons?

  Minnesota's just really comfortable wherever they're playing. I think that's my favorite thing about them. They're just, they're just really comfortable. They don't care if they're in LA. They don't care if they're playing against LeBron and Luca. They're an irrational confidence team personified and you saw it last night and granted, they shot the lights out. But I saw a team that walked in there and thought, we have the best team in this series and we're winning this series and they carried themselves that way. Now, the Lakers, I don't know what happened to them the entire game. I don't know where the ball moved. They had 15 assists. There was some stagnant offense and on defense, I just thought they looked slow.

• 20:48Bill Simmons?

  It'll be different on Tuesday, but I really liked what I saw from Minnesota and that was the series that it didn't flip me. Cause I had Lakers in seven, but it did make me go, fuck, I think I, I don't feel great about Lakers in seven. So what was your takeaway?

• 21:04Speaker 01

  I went last minute.

• 21:06Bill Simmons?

  Wow, look at you.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:08Bill Simmons?

  You're like the new Diane Cannon. You're there, you're there every game.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  I'm hoping to get my upgrade material this offseason. We'll see what they offer, but I, I picked Minnesota and I'm, look, I'm not taking credit for it as if I, I saw all these things. It just felt a bit like a zag because there's, if you just, it felt like this overwhelming vibe decision by the general NBA public. Right? Where it was, okay, the Lakers, another run with LeBron, the Luca stuff. You know, that peak that they had, which we've talked about. I brought it up in my playoff preview on Thursday where it's like, if you go on the season defensive numbers for the Lakers, it's 17th. And sometimes like the season's so long that that's a completely irrelevant number for a lot of different teams.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  And then they have that 18 and three stretch where we were talking with that awesome Denver win at Denver mixed in in there and you're going, wait, they're the number one team on defense now for, for 21 games?

• 22:00Bill Simmons?

  That's weird.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Right. Cause when the Luca trade was made, it was almost a thought of. Well, they're gonna have to figure this out defensively. Those three guys in the perimeter, depending on what you get from LeBron and then, you know, Reeves just gets hunted because of of a size thing, probably more so than anything else. Cause I think they at least fights for position and that kind of stuff. So like, we just didn't think they were going to be good defensively and then they're off the charts defensively. And then after that stretch, when I ran the numbers again, it was like, hey, they're back to like 17th. So I think the truth was, is that was a bit of an anomaly, even if it looked like they were doing a great job prepping guys based on the opposition. So you look at Minnesota on the other side of like these closing groups, they closed since March 2nd, 17 and four. They had the fourth best net of any team in the NBA. Okay.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  They're also the healthiest they've ever been. Do I love Randall as a number two for multiple playoff rounds? No, I do not.

• 22:51Bill Simmons?

  What?

• 22:52Speaker 01

  He's played great. I mean, he's played great, at least for them in this whole thing. So when you're thinking about this matchup, like is Rudy going to get exposed? Is this something where Minnesota will want to go small? Is that actually doing the Lakers a favor? Cause the Lakers do not want to play Jackson Hayes and I don't blame them for not wanting to play him, but they have no other move. They go with Rui at center and in the beginning of the game, it was like, hey, he's hitting those threes that we talked about last week. Uh, and then that cooled off. Then they have this other small group where they'll go Finney Smith and Vanderbilt and then figure out with the rest of the perimeter guys. And JJ's talked about like, hey, we're not small. We're big perimeter players, but we just don't have a traditional center. Well, in this game, they were small. So the alarming part of it, when you think of it as a matchup is what's the adjustment?

• 23:37Speaker 01

  The Lakers are going to grow. Um, but then if I'm on the Lakers side of this, I'm going 48 points from Nas Reed and Jaden McDaniels, 48 points from those two guys. Like, that's not happening again.

• 23:48Bill Simmons?

  21 for 42 from three. It's pretty hard not to win any playoff game when you go 21 for 42. I, I struggled with it because I thought Gobert offensively could be a problem for the Lakers heading into the series because of the lob stuff is they don't have room protection and that's like the one that Gobert is good at. And I was trying to figure out how much Jackson.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  If they pass to him.

• 24:07Bill Simmons?

  Right. If they give, but he's still around the rim with his arms up. And if you're not playing a center at some point. So Hayes, Hayes was minus 11 and eight minutes. They couldn't keep him on the floor. Right? So you have that. You have, uh.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  They haven't been playing him at all, by the way. Like this is pretty consistent.

• 24:23Bill Simmons?

  This is like, all right, we just had to find out. Um, Minnesota did some interesting stuff with where they put Connolly. Were you following that? Where they, they put him on Rui for a little bit so that they, he wouldn't be on Reeves. And then the Lakers kind of figured that out and then they started moving around the second half. He was on Reeves again, and it seems like they were so aware that the Lakers were going to attack Connolly as a strategy that they just wanted to kind of move him around like a yo yo, which I thought was, was smart.

• 24:53Bill Simmons?

  I don't really know what the move is for the Lakers, if that, if that one lineup they have, which got killed last night with the, with the Rui, LeBron, Luca, pick Reeves and pick a swing. If that lineup's just going to get torched by Minnesota, I don't know what the next move is. Cause the next move is basically playing LeBron at center and going super small with wings and shooting. And I just think Minnesota would be delighted if they did that. But the, the big takeaway for me last night is when McDaniels plays like that, Minnesota looks awesome. And he's their wild, every team has a wild card guy, right?

• 25:27Speaker 01

  When he's good.

• 25:28Bill Simmons?

  McDaniels is awesome. Minnesota looks like the scariest team in the West, other than OKC. And he was awesome last night.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  I went through the three point attempts because it just was, it was just out of control. Place is quiet. People are just laughing, being like, when are these guys going to start missing? And I have it at 43 point attempts. It's 42 for the game and not counting the last two garbage ones. But of the 40 attempts that I would say like, we're in the time that we were still wondering, whatever, this isn't totally relevant, but I counted as 40 attempts. 27 are absolutely wide open, like not debatable.

• 26:03Bill Simmons?

  Which was the fear with this Luca LeBron combo, that it would just be open three frenzy.

• 26:09Speaker 01

  I'd say seven more were open and then I'm going to give them, and I was being nice. I gave them six contests because some people will go through and sort all these different things. And you know, so there was one place that was trying to say there was like zero. And I was like, well, that's not true. There's a few contests, but 27 of the 40 are like, nobody's even close. And there's a few things. One is they're packing it because they're worried about Ant hunting Luca. And so that means help. I think there's even a chance that Randall, even though he probably got a little emotional about it at some point, like if he gets LeBron, it seems like he wants to get real physical with him. And that's one of the few guys that, you know, with the ball in his hands, it's probably a really good showdown physically, which is not something we'd say about LeBron a lot. So you've packed it in and you're leaving these corner threes that are there.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  And Nas hit a ton, Jaden hit a ton. But then there's just other stuff where LeBron has to be better. You know, if it was a second action where he was heading in one direction and then it's like, no, the ball's going over there. He just wasn't quick enough to go over and contest it. And then Luca, like if you run something to one side and then the guy Luca is assigned to away from the ball comes up, Luca just doesn't even pay attention to him off the ball. He, he, he lost, you know, numerous guys on those attempts. So you could think G A J could just go through it and be like, hey, dickheads. What do you guys, are you ready now? Are you ready to play? Cause it was so overwhelming and it looked so bad for the Lakers. You're going, okay. So if they're only small, like, why is this going to actually get better?

• 27:39Speaker 01

  But I'm not going to fall for, I'm not going to fall for like a game one thing here saying that LA can't get back. That, that would just seem irresponsible because we've seen so many game ones look like, just be so misleading. But the size thing was alarming last night. And I think you're probably a little, it was probably a bit of a reminder to me like, wait, are they good? And are they too big?

• 27:58Bill Simmons?

  So Nico still in this thing, you're saying?

• 28:03Speaker 01

  Side note, do you think when Anthony Davis was going off against Sacramento, Nico had like an inner dialogue where he's like, I'm going to be right about this.

• 28:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'm still, he definitely, there's one person in his life that he's still like, just hold on. I'm still not out of this. It's still going to happen. Can I read you the most critical thing I read about the Lakers last night?

• 28:25Speaker 01

  Please.

• 28:25Bill Simmons?

  Coach J J Reddick did a great job all season, but he didn't do a good job for game one. The Lakers stood around on offense, played too much one-on-one basketball and he didn't make any necessary adjustments.

• 28:38Bill Simmons?

  A tweet from Magic Johnson.

• 28:41Bill Simmons?

  That's when you know things are bad. Like that's, that's as critical as I think he's ever been on Twitter. He was not happy. What did you see at the game? What was the vibe? Give it, give us the, uh, give us the feel in the arena. Cause they're all excited for this game, game one, Luca playoffs, little kids wearing the Luca jerseys, and then the T Wolves hit threes for an hour straight.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  It was, you know, cause it's game one and I think that that fan base has an arrogance that's deserved.

• 29:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  They have a right to be arrogant. I think the more alarming thing, you know, as a Lakers guy, when the place was going nuts for Steph in the regular season, it was the Steph MVP chants, like big time, it was loud. I was like, boy.

• 29:27Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  You don't expect that. Uh, no, you know, I don't. Afterwards, it wasn't like anybody, cause I was milling around a little bit afterwards. It was just kind of a shrug and a, well, that was alarming. You know, but I still think like the same thing if you were in Boston, if Boston got smoked, granted, if they get smoked by Orlando, that's worse than getting smoked by Minnesota. But it's just, all right, you know, they'll figure it out, they'll come out. Let me ask you something though, because this was a thought that crap that crypt into my head. Uh,

• 29:59Speaker 01

  a little too much Luca trying to figure it out on his own on offense?

• 30:04Bill Simmons?

  It does feel like it's month four of, of, uh, let's really give him a lot of latitude here, especially in the first quarter.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  Like a subletter that extends his lease? Like this is how I really am.

• 30:16Bill Simmons?

  Like those Apple news stories you read where somebody's, so somebody won't leave somebody's cottage? And they've been there two years. Um, yeah, I was, I was wondering in the two days between games, if we might get some sort of something from the LeBron camp. LeBron really wants Luca to get more involved. There's some sort of something. It's a lot of time here, 72 hours. So who knows? I'm on pins and needles, waiting to find out. I will tell you this though.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Just to, to add though, if, if you were a Luca detractor, right? You would go, okay, well, he just runs his pick and roll until he gets the matchup that he wants and it's a lot of staring around. And the design of some of those Dallas teams were for that specific reason, right? But when he was with the other really good player, it didn't really work out, but Kyrie needed a place and it worked out for Kyrie, even though I felt like during that playoff run last year, the ups were celebrated and the downs were never criticized because that's usually what happens in the number two anyway.

• 31:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  But there were some moments throughout that run to the finals where you were like, you need more out of Kyrie here and it's, it's just not really that much of a topic. I felt like there were times watching where.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  Like Rudy didn't play 24 minutes and I was like, all right, now I'm going to try to kill Rudy Gobert. And it's like, all right, but like Austin Reeves is pretty good. LeBron's got a pretty decent resume. I, I think that there's probably something to be said if you don't, if you don't get the, the switch that you want immediately.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  Swing it. Um, and I'm not like knocking.

• 31:53Bill Simmons?

  It's just not how he plays. He has seven, he has seven years of habits. He's like a child actor who just learned on the set how to behave. It is what it is.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  It crept into my head. Just a thought. I'm not, you know, we're also talking about one of the most efficient offensive players of all time, but you know, there's also something to be said of like, everybody needs to touch the ball. I think they need to get going downhill too. When Rudy's out, right? Like they need, if they're going to have Randall and Nas hanging around the rim.

• 32:21Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  Then you should just be like, I don't even care if you make it. I'm going, I'm just going, I'm trying to finish over and over again. I'd see, I'd like to see them be more aggressive during those non Rudy minutes.

• 32:30Bill Simmons?

  It's, well, we talked about the wild card guides. McDaniel's from Minnesota, no question. And I guess Nas too, but Nas is pretty consistent.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  But you're so right. When, when Jayden's like that.

• 32:38Bill Simmons?

  McDaniel's good. It's.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Like, did they win 70 games?

• 32:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Yeah. They looked just amazing. And Reeves is kind of the guy for LA in a lot of ways. Cause when he's awesome, all of a sudden they seem like impossible to stop. But Minnesota, and this was, I, I had such a tough time with this series and finally ended up, I think I took Lakers in seven, but I really thought it was going to be a seven game series. Where you have these two teams, the strengths and weaknesses are basically the same for the most part, except for the center spot. Like Minnesota's weak spot is point guard. I don't know how much, how many minutes can Conley can play, but Conley's the guy every team targets and he's the guy.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  But it doesn't matter because it's still Ant.

• 33:17Bill Simmons?

  Doesn't really matter for them. Right.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Ant's playing point guard.

• 33:20Bill Simmons?

  And then they can go bigger and really not have a point guard, but then you can pressure them. Like there's, there's ways you can do it. And the Lakers are similar. And Rui is basically their Nas Reed, but Nas Reed's a better player. But they have this Gobert piece that the Lakers just don't have. They have this extra, extra wrinkle they can bring in depending on the game. And the Lakers are kind of stuck with this roster and it goes back to the, uh, the Mark Williams trade.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  Can I give you a compliment?

• 33:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  You said years ago, we were talking about Carmelo in the playoffs.

• 33:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  And you basically said like, look, even though he isn't, he takes the floor of LeBron and Wade and these guys.

• 34:01Bill Simmons?

  And feels like he belongs.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Right, right. I'd say Ant's a better player in comparison to like what Ant's contemporaries are right now than maybe even like the gap between prime LeBron and Carmelo is wider than I think the gap between Luca and Ant say right now.

• 34:22Bill Simmons?

  Okay. From 09 to 13, LeBron was here and Carmelo was there.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  But Carmelo didn't take the floor going, oh my God, that guy's so much better than me. Right?

• 34:30Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  And Ant's never taken the floor thinking any of these guys are better than him. That has to be an incredible feeling now, like another year in with this group, with this team, having a playoff run where it's like, even if things are going really bad, at least we know we can get it back to a guy that you can't really do anything with Ant. Seeing Ant in person, by the way, I would put him on the very short list of people that are worth to see in person. It is just another level of, of like impressive, not just because he can jump and do all these. There's just movement shit with him with the ball. Where you're like, what did he just do? And then, you know, you're not even watching. You're just waiting for the replay because you can't believe what you just saw. So I think that is,

• 35:12Speaker 01

  I just thought it was a really valuable thing that you had said about that. It's valuable to a team. And I think Ant, it's not the same thing because I like Ant more than I like probably Carmelo, but it's important.

• 35:24Bill Simmons?

  He's certainly a better two way player. They have a bunch of guys like that. They're not irrational confidence because it's kind of rational and confident, but they have Nas Reed. I think Dante's like that. Randall can have moments where he's like, if I could just get the ball more, I'd be a 35 point a game guy. And I don't think it's a team that really cares if they're on the road or not. Here's what's interesting. So in the Clippers series. The Clippers were minus 118 favorites on FanDuel when that series started. They lost game one and now they're plus 118. So it swung a little, but not that much. Minnesota was a pretty big underdog heading into the Lakers series. They were like, I think it was like plus 160, something like that.

• 36:08Bill Simmons?

  They're now minus 153 favorites off of one game. That swung big. So I, I think there was some matchup stuff there that the sharps probably looked at and said, this is going to be long haul. Now, what they're forgetting is that literally everybody in Minnesota is going to foul out a game two. I'm just preparing America now. It could be a 60 foul game for them.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  Well, LA didn't get called for any fouls in game one is because they weren't near anybody.

• 36:34Bill Simmons?

  True. Anyway, that's a, that's our segment on Lakers, Timberwolves. And you can learn more at workday.com. Well, the NFL playoffs are here. You knew this already. There's no better way to be in the action than with FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. So many fun things to do. We got profit boosts, future bets. You can dive in, make your bet, activate your boost, go for even bigger winnings. Monday, I think we have Knicks Pistons, and then we have Clippers Nuggets game two. I still like all the Clippers series bets, the future bets. I think they're plus 118 for the series. I like them to win outright in game two.

• 37:18Bill Simmons?

  So I would recommend that, but don't be a spectator this postseason. Head to FanDuel.com/BS to download America's number one sportsbook and make every moment more. You must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC. Opted in required. Bonus issued as non-mutorable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Spring is here. My favorite time of the year. That means the NBA playoffs are here too. What am I the most excited about? I'm excited to see if the Celtics can defend their title.

• 37:59Bill Simmons?

  I'm excited to see if Steph Curry and Jokic can keep going and going and going round after round. I'm excited for the potential of an LA versus LA playoff series. It's never happened. Clippers Lakers, never in my lifetime. Is OKC for real? Is Cleveland for real? Is SGA going to prove that he is the best scoring guard in the postseason? Basically, since Michael Jordan, since Kobe Bryant? Is he on that level? We're all going to find out. There's plenty to look forward to on and off the court. Like Michelob Ultra Courtside, that's another thing. It's getting fans closer to the game with unique prizes. Plus they're giving you a chance to win tickets to the NBA Finals. You heard me, the NBA Finals, which I hope are in Boston. Just head to michelobultra.com/NBAfinals.

• 38:42Bill Simmons?

  Michelob Ultra Courtside NBA Finals Sweepstakes, no purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents excluding Maryland residents 21 and up. Begins 9 a.m. ET on February 16, 2025. Ends on May 5, 2025. See official rules at michelobultra.com/rules. For price and details, message and data rate may apply. Void where prohibited. Clippers Nuggets game of the weekend?

• 39:12Bill Simmons?

  Has to be, right?

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:13Bill Simmons?

  That was the best game we saw. It was an awesome, awesome game. The Clippers curse is undefeated. I'm happy to talk about that later when I do that now. Here's my first question for you.

• 39:25Bill Simmons?

  If you're a Denver fan,

• 39:28Bill Simmons?

  are you more or less scared after that game?

• 39:32Bill Simmons?

  Do you feel better or worse? You won the game. Do you feel better?

• 39:35Speaker 01

  I don't feel better. Well, I feel better because I'm up a game. So if we're just going with that, but if just what you watched and how it went down, I don't feel better. You?

• 39:45Bill Simmons?

  I think I feel worse.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  All right. So answer your own question because you're right on this. So stay on it.

• 39:50Bill Simmons?

  No, I was curious on your take. I- If I'm a Denver fan, I can't believe I won that game and I'm already fucking nervous as hell for the series. And I think that's why the line didn't really budge because you had Porter, who was a section eight, who basically got benched for Russell Westbrook, who was a big piece in the coach GM drama where both guys ended up getting fired and who is just a complete roller coaster ride possession possession and was a better option than Michael Porter, who makes $40 million a year. He's out there. And then you have Murray, who was seven for 20 and it felt worse. And the Clips just have a bunch of fucking dudes to throw at him. What are you looking up?

• 40:32Speaker 01

  No, no, I'm just, I'm listening to everything you're saying. A bunch of dudes that you can throw at him. I think you even swore in there.

• 40:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. And I don't know what I'm getting out of Porter going forward. I don't know if I'm getting 50% shooting from Jamal Murray in any game with the way the Clippers were defending him. And I don't know if I'm ever getting a worse, uh, worse possession performance than the Clippers in big spots where they just, look, it's gonna sound like I'm making excuses because I picked them to win the series. They just fucked the game up. That was a we fucked the game up. You leave that game and you're like, I can't believe we lost that game. And you're going through, there's 12 plays you're looking at like, what are we doing here? We can't inbound the ball over here. We can't get a better shot here. We're sending Jokic to double team late here and leaving this guy 10 feet open. Like, what are we doing?

• 41:21Bill Simmons?

  And I guarantee their coaches, and we both think they have one of the five best coaching staffs. I guarantee their coaches were fucking knocking tables over the day going, what the fuck were we doing in this? So the question for me is, bad game or is this just like, this is what this Clippers experience is going to be like between the fact that James Harden is involved, you have guys like Chris Dunn, wide open, open for a reason, as Jalen Rose would say. And you also have Jokic, who's the best player in the series. But I still feel like the Clippers are going to win the series and I don't think it's crazy.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  We agree. I thought the Clippers with 20 turnovers, so many of them were just-

• 42:01Bill Simmons?

  20 turnovers were so low.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Bad turnovers, like getting ready to inbound the ball, you can't inbound the ball. You know, it's probably more on the past than it is on Harden positioning himself and Westbrook's energy was just off the charts because I want to get to his timeline of events here. But 20 turnovers, they took way more free throws. I think Jokic, it was as good as he was overall because we all expect that from him. He was atrocious on defense in the first half.

• 42:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  So I don't know if that's like a halftime wake up call and that he's just going to play at a better level, but when he got caught in any kind of like on ball thing in the first half, it was a joke. There's a baseline drive on him where he was terrible. And then with Zoo, no matter what, and you can sort the numbers and say Zubac based on minimum number of possessions against Jokic, like you can make an argument that he's better against Jokic than anybody else. The very least that you're getting out of it because you're never stopping Jokic is that there's about four or five shots, I think from game one, we're like, that's a tough shot. Like he got even Jokic to have to take that shot tough. So like I, I feel really good about that. I'm mad about the turnovers. I don't think it was just because of trapping, you know, every now and then if there's a double team on the guy with the ball, like a cut would be

• 43:12Speaker 01

  nice from some of the other big name guys. But you know, Harden was really good. He hit those two floaters. He headed a huge three. So there's not really like a thing you can point to there with Harden. I, I think it's this is whatever we want to do with this Westbrook topic, the fact that he took 17 shots in a playoff game, if I'm the Clippers, I'm like, good. If he takes that many shots, the rest of this series-

• 43:34Bill Simmons?

  Including the biggest shot of the game.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Second, I'd say second, the, the Brown three was the biggest shot of the game.

• 43:41Bill Simmons?

  Hold that thought. Um, so Harden was 32, six and 11 and played 42 minutes. Kawhi played 41 minutes. At some point they were like, we gotta get this game. We can take this the way Porter's playing.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Overtime too, so.

• 43:55Bill Simmons?

  Well, yeah, but I mean, with the way Porter is playing, I think they were like, we can steal this. We can steal this. And it felt like they were going to win it.

• 44:03Bill Simmons?

  The, uh, the Norm Powell, who I don't think has been the same guy since he came back from his injury. And I don't know if the stats completely back it up, but I think they do. The thing that was interesting with-

• 44:15Speaker 01

  He had a good march. He, he was, he was slow, I think.

• 44:18Bill Simmons?

  A little up and down, right?

• 44:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:19Bill Simmons?

  I mean, he was, but I mean, he was playing less minutes too. I looked up the five man numbers for all the, uh, I didn't, I did it before the Golden State game for just game one. And you can see that, and these lineups play like 10 minutes, 12 minutes, 11 minutes. The Clippers played that one lineup 26 minutes with Dunn. 26 of the 53. And they were like minus nine with that lineup. And I wonder going forward, do we see a little less Dunn and a little more, uh, Derek Jones? Or maybe a little more Batum? Do they go a little bit bigger? Just play Harden as a point guard? I think my point is they have moves to make. Whereas Denver has no moves. If Porter's gonna suck, then it's it. It's just Westbrook.

• 45:01Bill Simmons?

  What, what, who else is playing? Nobody else in your roster who can play in crunch time of, of a playoff game. So they're gonna be at, you know, at the whim of this Russell Westbrook roller coaster. So take the floor. Cause I know you have a timeline you want to do.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  I mean, we can keep going. LA's bench got outscored by the Denver bench 23 to 13.

• 45:21Bill Simmons?

  It was terrible.

• 45:21Speaker 01

  That's weird. I mean, you want to start looking at how dumb plus minus can be. I think sometimes it's telling. Sometimes it's totally misleading. Zoo was minus eight and 39 minutes. Simmons, who doesn't want the ball in his fucking hands, was plus five on the game. So they're so desperate, they have to play Simmons in those non-Zoo center minutes. And even if you think, okay, at least he provides some kind of body that can move around a little bit. He doesn't, once he has the ball, like all he's doing is trying to figure out how he can get rid of it. And then he'll try to do like a pass that looks kind of cool or whatever. So-

• 45:50Bill Simmons?

  I like when he gets a rebound and he takes off with the ball like it's going to be a fast break.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:55Bill Simmons?

  Johnson style, but then he sees the half court logo and he's like, three, two, one, I have to get rid of this ball. I can't dribble within 35 feet of the basket. I can't believe he's playing. The one thing I liked with him was I thought he was physical with Jokic. They like I I guess that's if he can at least do that, he's probably playable in this series, but offensively he's a zero.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  I can't believe he's playing.

• 46:18Bill Simmons?

  Legitimate zero.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  I cannot believe he's playing real minutes right now, but it really speaks like they just don't want to go with Drew Eubanks over it. And I guess if you're if you're being as nice as you possibly could is that once you give him the outlet, he can he can cross half court with the ball.

• 46:34Bill Simmons?

  Right. He looks good. Heads up.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  You're so right, though. When he takes off, you're like, oh, my like, this is going to be on the VHS.

• 46:42Bill Simmons?

  Well, remember him in the remember pre COVID Ben Simmons?

• 46:45Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 46:45Bill Simmons?

  He would take those rebounds and he honestly looked like left handed magics LeBron sometimes. He really did. I don't know what happened.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  So we're we don't like, there's just a lot from this game where the first half was playing out the way I thought it would play. I thought Jokic is even worse defensively than, you know, whatever standards you have from him. He's in every action. They're hunting him constantly. And a lot of times I think he doesn't get enough credit for how, you know, he's at least smart enough to know what position you're supposed to be in, which I think is more than half a defense. But at the rim, it's not like there's going to be a ton of contests or people are going to do U turns, you know, like against the really good defensive guys who you can see is like, I don't really want to go in there.

• 47:24Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's a good one for Harden, too, because that floater he has, he just knows he's getting it against the

• 47:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 47:31Bill Simmons?

  The Nuggets. Nobody's blocking it.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  But I I still was was OK with the Clippers after this whole thing because

• 47:39Bill Simmons?

  Me too.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  Like, let's let's go with that Westbrook timeline here. He hits the three. Um, he hits three. By the way, Denver's offensive rebounding in the fourth quarter also won. They had seven offensive rebounds just in the fourth. So Westbrook takes down a huge offensive rebound when they're down 96 95. He hits the huge three.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  But then at the end of regulation, he gets it back again, has a chance to take a three and then decides to jump in the air and throw it off another defender as the clock expires. Sure. Like, okay, what's going on here?

• 48:12Bill Simmons?

  I actually felt like that got swept under the rug as one of the worst

• 48:15Speaker 01

  Of course it did.

• 48:16Bill Simmons?

  in the gameplays in the history of basketball.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:18Bill Simmons?

  Just even leading up, I mean, he was put in a bad spot. There's three seconds left, but everything about it was a botch.

• 48:24Speaker 01

  Here's the other thing that'll be forgotten forever, and I'm going to forget it too. But up 108, 107, when they were trying to trap Murray, swings it to Westbrook to run clock. And then Westbrook was 16 game.

• 48:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 48:39Speaker 01

  16 seconds left on the game clock, 13 left on the shot clock. He actually drives and they said it was a pass to Aaron Gordon. I think Aaron Gordon just ended up with the ball and it was almost a disastrous turnover. When you factor in, when all this Denver stuff started going south.

• 48:57Bill Simmons?

  The 60 10 game.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, right, right.

• 49:00Bill Simmons?

  Would you hear Bob Myers' reaction to that? The play settled. I think they ended up getting free throws out of it somehow. And Bob, there's like a pause and Bob Myers is like,

• 49:11Bill Simmons?

  well, I'm not sure Westbrook should have taken the, he was just like, I'm really not sure that should have happened. You kind of have to pull up there and maybe not do that.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  National broadcast default nice setting with that. I mean, there's another thing here that I wrote down, like Jokic misses those two huge, like, when do you expect Jokic in that spot to miss two free throws? So.

• 49:30Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  Look, again, Ramona Shelburne had a really good note on ESPN.com in her piece today where if you look at the spacing that LA gave Westbrook in this game, it averaged out to 9.6 feet on his three point attempts, which is the most space he's ever had in a playoff game since they started tracking this stuff 11 years ago, minimum five attempts.

• 49:52Bill Simmons?

  So nine feet is almost.

• 49:55Bill Simmons?

  Nine feet is that's

• 49:56Speaker 01

  Like two thirds of the free throw line.

• 49:58Bill Simmons?

  That's like second and six. If you get four yards, three yards, maybe they spot, it's either second and seven or second and six, depending on how they spot it. I, I really want to talk about the Westbrook spacing because first of all, that this was another thing. We didn't properly kill the Clippers on whatever the fuck these staggered double teams they were sending at Jokic. It just felt like over and over again, it was the wrong timing of it and he just had it figured out in the second half in OT is they're going to do this. I'm going to just hit this open guy. But that shot Westbrook hit the three. I don't think I've ever seen anyone left more open at any level of basketball in any game I've ever watched in my life, including like girls, high school basketball in the eighth grade.

• 50:39Bill Simmons?

  He was open. Chris Dunn just, Jokic got the ball and Chris Dunn was closest to Westbrook, but he was probably six feet away and he just said, fuck it. And he went to the top of the key to double Jokic and Westbrook had, when I say nobody around him, if you just did a screenshot, it would look like he was by himself before the game, like taking threes and somebody

• 50:59Speaker 01

  Why is there a fan on the court?

• 51:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Like he had time to line up. So then he made it and he's like, that's what I do. That's what I do. He's doing that whole thing. It's like, dude, nobody's ever been left more open than you just were ever in a playoff game, ever. It was amazing.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  I love that play because I wonder how many people would throw it to him in that spot. Now, the uncontested three shooting numbers for Westbrook this year are actually pretty good.

• 51:28Bill Simmons?

  Well, by the way, for the whole Nuggets team, because if you look at their three point shooting, it's kind of better than you think it would be. But the reason it's better than you think it would be because a lot of these threes are just wide open because of all the shots Jokic creates for everybody. So you're shooting 39%, but most of those shots are like wide open shots.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  I just would wonder if you could ever get a couple beers and Jokic years from now and be like, did you have just a moment of hesitation of going, this is the right read, it's the right basketball play, but do I really want him taking this one? And I think that this is why you can't ever question this guy's motivations is because I think he just wants to play the game the perfect way and that he would make that pass again if Westbrook missed it. I think there's a lot of guys that don't pass it to him.

• 52:12Bill Simmons?

  I think he is just conditioned to do, he's, he's the Terminator, walking into the bar, making the calculations with all the math and just makes the decision. I think every decision is just whatever the best basketball play is, that's what he does. So even if it's Russell Westbrook, alone by 12 feet in the corner, down to the biggest play of the game, I just think he's throwing it to him. It's like, that's a wide open guy. I am conditioned to throw it to that guy. And that's it.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  You're right.

• 52:41Bill Simmons?

  I think it could have been, it could have been Sarudy in the corner. Like he doesn't care. Whoever, that guy has the jersey on, I'm wearing the same jersey, he's open, I throw him the ball. That's what I do.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  A criticism of Jokic, if you wouldn't mind.

• 52:56Bill Simmons?

  Sure. It's a great, it's a great time. It's, it's been, it's been a, a lot of Jokic's love lately, especially on this podcast. Go ahead.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  So the inbounding the ball thing that he does.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  All right, Denver fans, it's going to be okay. We'll get through this together. But this came up when it was the Ishbia thing. Remember when Ishbia had the ball and like Jokic went to grab it from him and Ishbia was just like, whatever. I caught a ton of shit because I was like, I could totally see just Ishbia thinking, like, what are you doing? Even though if it were just a normal fan.

• 53:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  You gotta give the ball back, but.

• 53:33Bill Simmons?

  Starting out.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  The argument is.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  Well, Jokic loves to check it with the ref so he can inbound the ball ahead of a defense getting things sorted out. All right. Cause there's numerous times throughout a game where you can see that he's doing it. He's quick to get in a position to inbound, then get the ball back and he's trying to catch the defense off guard. It's smart, right? He should, he should keep doing it. However, there are times where it doesn't matter how quickly Jokic wants to inbound the ball, the refs have to sort some shit out. All right. And on that play where he and Van Gundy are battling for the basketball, there's no version of events where Jokic rips it from Van Gundy and then checks it and the ref just gives it back to him automatically advantage Denver. There seems to be these people that think that Jokic just gets to do whatever

• 54:21Speaker 01

  he wants on the inbounding where like what, what would happen? Like the refs like, oh shit, he inbounded it guys. Like, I know we have a review and I know we have all these different, but you know, you know, he wanted to get it in. So I just let him. So there seems to be this misunderstanding of, of like who's in charge. Cause there's plenty of times where it makes sense when the ref doesn't have anything that he has to sort out. There's nothing that they're worried about. There are other times where it's very clear and it's not as many times, it's clear the refs have to like figure a couple of things out before he gets to just start the game because he wants to start the game. I don't mind him doing it. I mind people defending the idea that he's supposed to be able to do it every single time.

• 55:03Bill Simmons?

  You know, who used to do it once upon a time?

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Cedric Maxwell.

• 55:08Bill Simmons?

  50 minutes? Larry Joe Bird. He would get furious at the ref if they didn't throw him the ball in time. I think he saw it same way as Jokic. Like it's almost like soccer where the guy puts a free kick down really fast to try to, try to get the advantage.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  But like on the Ishbia, the Ishbia play specifically, there was other stuff they had to get through and figure out. They, they weren't just going to go, well, we had some questions about what happened.

• 55:36Bill Simmons?

  But now you have the ball, so let's go.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  He got the ball in and you know, so.

• 55:40Bill Simmons?

  Ishbia. It's the most positive Ishbia reference in a while.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  The idea that he's on pace to be the worst owner in NBA history.

• 55:48Bill Simmons?

  Thank you. I was gonna do this later, but let's do it now. Uh, look, we both like Stephen A. I'm so tired of the historical hyperbole.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  He's got my vote.

• 55:57Bill Simmons?

  There's been so many worst owners over the course of 80 years than Matt Ishbia, just trading a couple too many things for Kevin Durant and throwing some swaps into Bradley Beal trade like.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  Sarver used to just sell picks.

• 56:12Bill Simmons?

  George Shin, they had to move the team to get him out of town because the town revolted against him owning a basketball team. Ted Stepien, they had to create a rule so that you couldn't trade draft picks and consider it because he demolished the Cavaliers for the entire 1980s and basically helped the Magic Johnson 1980s Lakers dynasty with stupid trades. Like, I could go through a million of these. He's not in the top 20 yet.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  Was Dan Snyder that long ago?

• 56:43Bill Simmons?

  Well, he was saying NBA, right?

• 56:45Speaker 01

  Oh, was it just NBA? Oh.

• 56:46Bill Simmons?

  But even if it's NBA, I can come up with 20.

• 56:49Speaker 01

  We haven't even mentioned Donald Stroud yet.

• 56:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we've had, but we've had a million of these. FYI, James Dolan wasn't exactly crushing it for 20 years there for the Knicks, right? Ishbia is, I don't know, not to defend him, but Jesus.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  Well, that's not, that's, that's not defending him. That's just.

• 57:07Bill Simmons?

  No, it's like, it's ridiculous. Like, this whole thing where everything has to be the greatest, the best.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  It's a real, maybe it is, maybe it's an Ishbia pod. Let's pivot. Let's get in front of that.

• 57:19Bill Simmons?

  Did that game make you feel better about voting for Jokic for MVP? Cause it did for me.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  Did the OKC Memphis game make people feel worse voting for SGA? That seems totally unfair, so I retract that. Cheers. No, look, I was totally comfortable. I was totally.

• 57:36Bill Simmons?

  Don't 100% retract it because that game was a fucking two hour, um, display of how awesome OKC is. Like, that team's awesome.

• 57:48Bill Simmons?

  That was part of the case. If you were kind of nudging a little toward Jokic and a little away from SGA, it's like, OKC is awesome. And OKC was, I mean, they, they beat Memphis to the point that I almost wonder if like, if you win game one by 60 points, should the series just end? Like, what would be the right number where it's like, look, if you lose by 60, we're not playing the other games. It's done.

• 58:11Speaker 01

  Well, I'd love, I love the idea of this, but they're never giving up the television.

• 58:14Bill Simmons?

  No, I know they're not. But like, what would be a number that would be like, if you can't stay within 60 points of somebody in a game one, you can't play the rest of the games?

• 58:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. If you get it to 60, does that mean you're up 2-0? We'll see you in game three.

• 58:25Bill Simmons?

  It's a double win.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think if you get up 60 in an NBA playoff game, there should be some, like, it shouldn't just be 1-0 on the graphic next time Memphis plays basketball. All right. So let's, before we do any of that, though, because I don't know, we're going to spend a ton of time on that.

• 58:40Bill Simmons?

  I have a Clippers thing. I don't want to leave Clippers Nuggets yet.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  I'm not done with it yet either, buddy.

• 58:44Bill Simmons?

  Great. Go.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  But the Jokic MVP, yes, I voted for him for MVP. Anybody listening to this podcast knew that I was going to do it. I felt totally fine about it. I don't want to sit here and argue against SGA because he was awesome.

• 58:56Bill Simmons?

  SGA was awesome. He had an incredible candidacy.

• 58:58Speaker 01

  But you got there too, huh?

• 59:00Bill Simmons?

  I did. I did. You, you could tell it was coming like two, three weeks ago. The 60-10-10 game was probably the final thing for me. But I just, you know, I talked about it on my Thursday pod at some point. If somebody's having the best offensive season you've seen since Michael Jordan, you gotta have to reconsider some of the, some of the standards you have for the award. I have a Clippers thing.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  But I think my point, my point about you asking about, I wasn't on the fence. And then like the third quarter, I went, okay, I got it. I got it right.

• 59:34Bill Simmons?

  Thank God. Clippers, I have some Clipper fans in my life. It's an underrated, oh my God, it's happening to us again, team. Because we always think of like the typical, the big teams like the Buffalo Bills, like these teams in the playoffs where if something goes wrong, you, you start thinking about the history. And the Clippers are such sad sacks, you kind of forget how bad the history is. And that loss was a bad loss. And yet, I still think the Clipper fans are, are just feel like we can beat this team. We have a really good team. Kawhi being healthy and playing that many minutes and playing that many minutes, just in general, it's one of those things you don't want to talk during a no hitter.

• 1:00:18Bill Simmons?

  But he looks really good. Like for where, whatever we thought he was going to be at this stage of his career at age 33, after all the time he's kind of missed and come and gone like this is, think like that. I think Harden, I think his legs look really good for an older team. They look pretty good. I, I still think they're the second best team in the, in the West. Maybe Minnesota can steal that ceiling title for them, but I, I still think they're going to win the series.

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  We have to, if we, if we're not done, are you done with the series? Cause we haven't talked about Michael Porter Jr. We have to do a minute on that.

• 1:00:51Bill Simmons?

  Go.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  Benched at the, what do I have it here? 814 mark of the fourth quarter during my note taking exercise to try to remember stuff of all these games.

• 1:01:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  I did have a first half, third quarter MPJ WTF question mark, just notation. That's code for like, sometimes I'll just write down a guy's name and I'll go Andrew Wiggins question mark.

• 1:01:21Bill Simmons?

  Tobias Harris, three question marks?

• 1:01:25Speaker 01

  Hey, not in the first half, but yeah. The lack of urgency from that guy is, it's not new. This isn't breaking news, but it's like, it's, it just blows your mind. Like if you really try to like, hey, I'm going to watch some, like, where's this guy been? Like, let me watch what he's doing out there. Doesn't fight for rebounds, doesn't fight for positioning. If it's an offensive rebound and he's on defense and then the guys in front of him, he just kind of like is there, there's, there's no contest, there's no effort. So they bench him and it's funny too, because you're thinking about like, how's Westbrook going to play? Does this mean because Adelman's now coaching that we're going to see Pickett out there closing?

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  Cause that's the sample that we got in that Sacramento game where it was like, oh, wait a minute, Westbrook's going to be on the bench.

• 1:02:16Bill Simmons?

  That is, are they going to put Pickett in that game? It's just becoming a must win game like that would have been insane, but that, that was an actual option.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  But then it's well, now it doesn't even matter because it's going to be Brown, Gordon, obviously, who would be one of the three main guys with Murray and Jokic. And then Brown's going to be out there with Westbrook because there's no Michael Porter Jr. And so Adelman covered for him a bit, saying, hey, I didn't think it was fair like to have him sit long stretches.

• 1:02:42Bill Simmons?

  Right. It's tough to get back in and see him play for a while.

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  What does that tell you? That tells you that he cannot, Michael Porter Jr. Is either somebody who does not respond to the criticism or responds poorly to it. Because I always think of like, if you're that bad, and this is not new for him, as I've said, like, he's, he's a classic, like, hey, he hit a bunch of threes and I had 21 points, grabbed a few boards. Like, he was really important for them, hit some awesome shots in the fourth quarter, like, clearly, he's already done that in playoff games. But then if he has zero, you know, like a lot of these guys that we talk about, you're not shocked, like, hey, how do you end up with three points? Like, you got the other version of him. But Jokic's quote here was pretty incredible. Now, again, three points in 26 minutes and Jokic was asked about it, he said, quote, "If you're not going to be engaged right now, then you're not supposed to be playing this sport."

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  So you had the coach, probably knowing, like, I can't get on him.

• 1:03:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I just got this job two weeks ago. I'm a 10.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  We'll see. He's going to be back out there. I'm sure he's going to be back out there with the closing group, but he's going to get another opportunity. But it'll always blow my mind watching guys.

• 1:03:47Bill Simmons?

  But here's why this matters, though.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  Not care. I don't know.

• 1:03:52Bill Simmons?

  In '23, when they won the title, he played 20 playoff games, 32.7 minutes a game.

• 1:03:58Bill Simmons?

  8.1 rebounds a game during that playoff stretch. Like, and, and I thought he was good during that run and we kind of hit, whatever the, whatever you had in your head of where his career was going to go is like, you know, it'd be cool if he had 40% of his threes and he tried on defense and he rebounded. If you just get those three things, we're good. And now he doesn't rebound. And the effort isn't there in the same way. And I said, Zach and I, I was on Zach's pod last week, we were talking about OKC. And I asked how many guys on Denver would play for OKC? And we went and he's like, no, there'd be more. And I said, well, I don't think Porter would play for them. I don't think he'd play over Wiggins. And Zach said, he'd play over Wiggins. And I don't know whether that's right or wrong. I genuinely don't think he would play over Wiggins.

• 1:04:41Bill Simmons?

  I think Wiggins really gives a shit, plays defense, hits threes, he's athletic, he gives a shit. I said that twice. I don't think Porter would get on the floor for them because he doesn't play hard enough. He wouldn't play. He wouldn't play over

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  At least this version of him.

• 1:04:56Bill Simmons?

  Two years ago, he would have.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  Play over Chet, he wouldn't play over Dort, he wouldn't play over Wallace, he wouldn't play over SGA, he wouldn't play over Jalen Williams one.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  He wouldn't play over Caruso.

• 1:05:07Bill Simmons?

  It's basically the Wiggins spot.

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  Isaiah Joe or Wiggins.

• 1:05:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I'm playing both of those guys over Porter, this version of Porter.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  And knowing what they prioritize.

• 1:05:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  Like he's the antithesis of what they're about.

• 1:05:19Bill Simmons?

  So here's the thing, this might have worked out for Denver where Porter has some sort of come to Jesus moment, but he's also had a really, I think, difficult year and I, and I, maybe that's affected the off the court stuff with his brother, which was, you know, pretty horrible. He's already won a title, so when you win a title, it's like, what am, I don't have to sacrifice in the same way. I'm already a champion. And maybe you're in that mode of like, I'm tired of hearing about how great Jokic is. I'm good too. I'll never, nobody will ever appreciate me on this. Like who knows what's in his head, but whatever he did in game one was disgusting. It sucked.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  The problem is, is the off the court stuff is significant, right? Cause it's not just his brother. It's, it's.

• 1:06:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he's got a lot of shit going on.

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  Right. It's a lot of shit going on. But if this were

• 1:06:07Speaker 01

  abnormal for him in a game,

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  I think those excuses

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  would be more of, of like

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  the conclusion that I've come to. The problem is, is this is kind of who he's been. This has always been, and it's just even crazier too, like thinking back to all of the stories that worked their way out of like the divide between Calvin Booth and Mike Malone, and then Booth at one point saying, hey, we need to trade Michael Porter Jr. Cause there'd probably still be some kind of fake attraction to the idea of him. He's still really young. What, he's 26, 27. He's two more years.

• 1:06:41Bill Simmons?

  Would you trade him for Levine?

• 1:06:44Speaker 01

  Uh, I, I think Levine is a bigger losing player than even Michael Porter Jr. is because he has the ball in his hands more. So, um, probably not, but that there was this Missouri connection. And you just think, like, what are you guys talking about? That can't be true. That can't, he was barely at Mizzou. He was barely there. And so now it's like this guy that's, seems to be indifferent at the wrong times.

• 1:07:08Bill Simmons?

  I'm looking at our YouTube chat to see if anybody has Michael Porter Jr. Doesn't seem like he's very popular in the chat. But the thing, the thing is, they don't just need him. They actually need him to play like 32 to 35 minutes a game. It's not just like, oh, it'd be nice if he helped us out. They actually need real minutes from him because the more minutes he plays, you know, the less other people play. So.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  But just to review, though, he played 53 minutes in college. 53 minutes and we're supposed to believe because of the Missouri connection to ownership. There's, that's like me being on Minneapolis Zillow because I've used the airport. Like, I like it here. Like, have you ever been outside of the airport? Like, I've been to that airport probably 40, 50 times. I've never been to the town.

• 1:07:53Bill Simmons?

  I think I've been to the Atlanta airport like 30 times and I've been to Atlanta twice.

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  Only twice.

• 1:08:00Bill Simmons?

  That'd be an interesting, that'd be an interesting one of times. Most airports you've been in versus times you've actually been in the city would be a good.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  Detroit's up there, but I've been to Detroit.

• 1:08:10Bill Simmons?

  Because the Hartford Detroit, Hartford Detroit to somewhere else. Yeah.

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  Well, I used to just spend a lot of time in Detroit. Who wouldn't? I'd leave Hartford being like, I can do this. I can do Detroit. But when I.

• 1:08:21Bill Simmons?

  Canada's right there.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  I've never been to Minneapolis.

• 1:08:25Bill Simmons?

  I didn't even go for the, for the Super Bowl.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  Now, I skipped that one.

• 1:08:31Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. And whether it's a flea flicker or a tush push, you need a plan that fits your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you. So they can help personalize coverage for your life and for your budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Excitement is in the air. That's right. It's the start of NBA season. I can't wait to get together with friends, share some Michelob Ultras and watch Tip Off Plus as the official beer sponsor of the NBA. Michelob Ultra is getting you closer to the action with experiences that make you feel like you're courtside to actual courtside tickets. Enter now for a chance to win at michelobultra.com/courtside.

• 1:09:16Bill Simmons?

  Michelob Ultra Courtside 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21 plus. Begins on October 1st, 2026, ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry. Entry deadlines, prizes and details. Can we do OKC Grizz really quick? I think Memphis is not a good basketball team and it made me mad that Dallas couldn't beat them. And I I bet the sweep immediately, like immediately for this series. Maybe I'll be wrong.

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  What was the odds? What were the payouts on that? What would they do?

• 1:09:48Bill Simmons?

  The odds were, I have that here.

• 1:09:56Bill Simmons?

  Plus 140. That's what I got it at.

• 1:10:01Bill Simmons?

  That was as big of a first half ass kicking as I can probably ever remember watching in a play off game. And I know there was, there were games where there were bigger blowouts, but it wasn't just that they were killing them. It was like, they were just rebounding and getting three on ones. And I thought Memphis gave up. It was a Jaren Jackson, trademark, your trademark, an all time Hall of Fame Tobias Harris game. I didn't realize he was out there for a half hour at one point. I thought he maybe left and was playing video games in the locker room, but it turned out he was still out there. It's just, it's just grim and I don't see any chance. This is a team that is really built to, to defend Ja with as many options as you could

• 1:10:46Bill Simmons?

  possibly come up with, plus rim protection. And there's, you know, unless Desmond Baines just can hit 12 threes in a game. I don't see a case, but I think Memphis, can we officially make them a team to watch this summer? Cause I don't feel like this will be the same nucleus in a couple of months.

• 1:11:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. Ownership loves Ja and Jaren had a great year this year. He was terrible today. It's an awful matchup for them because it's Ja going up against Dort and then Baines going up against J will. So then it's, it's nine for 29 combined from your backcourt, who physically has no chance against that group. And then on top of everything else, Jaren Jackson's like shit. So I get Chet or Harten, Hartenstein against me here.

• 1:11:28Bill Simmons?

  Hartenstein was, I thought incredible today.

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, Bane was a minus.

• 1:11:32Bill Simmons?

  Incredible.

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  Bane was a minus 51. JJ was two for 13.

• 1:11:36Bill Simmons?

  Minus 51?

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, you don't see that a lot. At one point I was rooting 110 55 was in play. It didn't get there.

• 1:11:45Bill Simmons?

  I watched the entire game. My mom was over for Easter and I was like, hold on. Like I, I was really, I like the double the score.

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  Sounds like something I would say. Don't you think that's a little sad? You watched this whole game and your mother was in town?

• 1:11:57Bill Simmons?

  Well, I had it on. I was, it was on the kitchen. I was focused on it. They're every bloody marys.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  But here's the other part. SGA started this game one of nine and it was 63 to 32. SG had 15 points. It's his lowest total since Team Kenny and Team Shaq. If you don't count those games, it's the lowest, the lowest he had had was very early in the season when he had 18. So game one of the playoffs, they come out here and do this and he only had 15 points and he missed like all of his shots until he hit some more a little bit later. This was so gross. It's the biggest blowout in the playoffs in 10 years when the Bulls beat the Bucks back in 2015 by 54 points. And it's always easy to say, but yeah, but this felt worse. I think it's just because it's like, if I have to hear about the Grizzlies being a fucking two seed anymore.

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  It's like, yeah, all right. Yeah. The standings broke one way and you were kind of a two seed and you were two seeds in that other year. And you guys really are proud. Like, when are you guys raising the two seed banner? This started like, we were a two seed at one point and it just.

• 1:13:05Bill Simmons?

  What was that Indy Colts banner? What was that? The AFC South champs or whatever?

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  Is that what it was? I don't know.

• 1:13:14Bill Simmons?

  They had a bad banner. I'm trying to, that would be a good website. Worst banners.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  That would be, you start that. Things don't work out for you.

• 1:13:21Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna work on that after the pod.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  I guess, look, anybody that heard the Verona pod could tell I was kind of like running out of patience with this Memphis group.

• 1:13:28Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that was, Seruda said 2014 AFC finalists was the Colts banner. AFC championship finalists. It's pretty bad.

• 1:13:37Speaker 01

  It's a tough banner. I just, you know, the buildup and like Jaws looking around and it's like, all right. And then Jalen Rose is even like a shoe comes out today and he's wants to announce to the world that like, even though SG is getting all this love, like I'm at this level. And then OKC is just looking at me like, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna go under every screen? You're gonna hit the first three. You're gonna miss the rest of them. And then you're gonna do shit where you're getting to the paint. Sometimes it works, but against us, like if you wait around against OKC, as I've said all season long, if you dick around with the basketball, they're going to make you pay. And so breaking the paint. And then just kind of dancing around, hoping you're going to get some angle against all these guys that are so much bigger than you.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  So there sounds like there's like real dislike in my voice. I know when I talk about Memphis and I'm, I actually feel bad about, about a little bit because I think they do do a really good job. And they've done like a really good job on the margins with all these players where I'm like, hey, nobody really liked this guy. They were smart about it. They've nailed all these draft picks, even Pippen Jr. Like that guy's going to play a really long time. I love his toughness, but to come out and just get stomped like that. It should be, however, the rest of the series goes, this should have been some kind of wake up call of like, we might be lying to ourselves down here a little bit about what our ceiling actually is. But they probably won't do anything because Jaws easily the most famous guy in sports.

• 1:14:56Bill Simmons?

  You could talk yourself into a, well, the coach thing was weird. We don't have Brandon Clark. Jalen Wells got hurt.

• 1:15:03Bill Simmons?

  Let's take a, let's take a look at this in the off season. Edie was turned out to be a great pick. Feeling good there.

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  Great pick. I think he's serviceable.

• 1:15:10Bill Simmons?

  Well, for number nine.

• 1:15:12Speaker 01

  In a bad draft, fine. Yeah, but.

• 1:15:15Bill Simmons?

  I'm, I'm just trying to do the glass half full Grizzlies case. I, the question for me is if you're sitting in whatever office,

• 1:15:24Bill Simmons?

  talking about, let's make a big move. Who's out there? Whether Memphis would admit it or not, I, they're not hanging up. If you're like, I have this really good offer for John Moran. Can we talk about it? They're not going to like.

• 1:15:35Speaker 01

  Nope. I think Jaws, the kind of guy owners love and will defend forever because he's their attraction. And if you're in Memphis, that's probably as important as, well, I guess they were a two seed, so.

• 1:15:47Bill Simmons?

  All right. Well, they have, they're three guys.

• 1:15:51Bill Simmons?

  And they feel a million miles away from OKC and OKC is still stacking up and they have three draft picks this draft. And I mean, you're so far away. I don't know. It'd be a tough, tough exit interview for, for the group. And we don't know if that coach is coming. I'd heard that the, maybe they did that Jenkins move because they wanted to lock down that coach because they're afraid they're going to lose him. So maybe he's the coach going forward. I don't know. But anyway, I'm going to probably not watch a lot of that series going forward unless the score is like 100 to 50. And I can get excited that they might double a score.

• 1:16:24Speaker 01

  But what would OKC, let me ask you this. What would OKC need to do? Or is it irrelevant because it's Memphis for, before people start to realize like how special this team is?

• 1:16:33Bill Simmons?

  It's not going to happen until they play Lakers.

• 1:16:39Bill Simmons?

  Who for oh, it's Clippers, Denver. Probably that series, probably round two, if they're just walloping whoever comes out of that Clippers, Denver thing. That's when I think people will be like, holy shit. But yeah, it's not, I just think people aren't going to believe it until they see it against real teams in the playoffs. Um, Knicks Pistons.

• 1:17:00Bill Simmons?

  What is your opinion for why Cade was so bad in that game? I have an opinion, but I'm interested in yours because Cade was bad.

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was. Um, I think OG makes you work a lot. And I think it kind of slows down the first thing that you're going to do. I thought they were doing a better job bringing him off the ball in some of the regular season games and then coming back to the ball. It seemed like they kind of abandoned a lot of that stuff. Hey, they were a mess. The five second violation to start the fourth quarter, next possession, 24 second violation, turnover, turnover, turnover, campaign of all people going off. The missed dunk, although Assar.

• 1:17:33Bill Simmons?

  They got the ball back and scored.

• 1:17:34Speaker 01

  Made, made up for it. Um, that was a disaster start of that 21 nothing run the whole time. You seem like you have something specific though, to the Cade matchup here that you want to get to.

• 1:17:44Bill Simmons?

  No, you said the number one thing I would have said is I, first of all, OG's been awesome for two months here. And I thought he was really good yesterday. No, I had a big picture point. I don't think home court matters anymore really that much as we saw with like how good the Celtics are on the road and at home, they would just blow these games left and right. And I, we've seen teams lose game sevens at home over and over again every playoffs. And in general, I just don't think it's not like it was in the eighties, you know, and even if you're like watching Celtic City, like some of those games that even I was lucky enough to be at, the crowds were different. The crowds were on top of you. You had the people on the bench. They had people sitting in the rows behind them

• 1:18:26Bill Simmons?

  just screaming at them the whole game. There was like an intimidation factor that I think is just not there anymore. I think it's, I think it's just more benevolent to be on the road, just in general. Um, it's easier to fly to a game, your private jets, you're staying in nice hotels. There's just things that are more in your favor if you're the road team. I think the Knicks still have a home court advantage. I thought the Pistons got rattled when that 21 to nothing. As that was happening, it was a thing that you don't really see that often anymore. A younger team. Getting affected by the momentum of a game and how much the crowd was into it. Cause I thought the crowd was great and I knew a bunch of people that were there who said the same thing. But I thought the crowd and the energy of, of what they had and what some of the players had and Towns,

• 1:19:10Bill Simmons?

  which that was about as much fun as I've had watching Towns as a two-way guy probably ever. OG Brunson was, you know, Brunson, it seems like he's hurt, then he's not hurt. Then he seems hurt again, then he's fine, but Brunson was gotten it out and everybody won from that game except for Bridges. Cause Bridges was bad and he was on the, on the bench, basically the entire time they, they brought it back. But if you're Detroit, you're like, fuck, we got this incredible Harris game, right? It 22, what at halftime? We were able to match their energy. Stewart gets hurt at the beginning of the fourth quarter. And they get nothing from Cade, but they still hung around, hung around, hung around.

• 1:19:51Bill Simmons?

  And then the, the Knicks just made them look like the young team that wasn't ready to be in an atmosphere like that. That was my takeaway.

• 1:19:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think all that's really fair. Uh, that place is awesome. That's not breaking news, but it really kind of went the way I thought. Like I thought the third quarter was so impressive from Detroit.

• 1:20:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:11Speaker 01

  Winning that one 36-26. I'm going with it. This is not what I expected. Like I just figured Detroit's gonna get reminded that there's levels to this. And that New York, even though they had the injuries last year, they're just gonna be way more comfortable in these games than Detroit's gonna be. And if I look at a Malik Beasley, who, you know, hit a ton of shots. I feel like, do I want, do I expect that those are gonna go in in the fourth quarter? Like he's, he's in that group for me right now where like he's feeling himself. He's been awesome this entire season. He's so important to what they do. You know, just the idea of actually having spacing around Cade this year as opposed to what they tried to do last year. But I don't know that I expect those shots to go in in the fourth quarter.

• 1:20:54Speaker 01

  And then you have another player where there's a turnover and it's, you know, look, this is a playoff game. New York's running away with this thing. The place is going crazy. Tons of momentum. Get back on defense. Tim Hardaway lets Brunson run away from him. There was just so many bad plays, turnovers, looking like they're not. Were like they just, they just weren't up to the task at all of the emotion of what that game was to close it. And I think the cat part of it, it's, that's great for him in this series is even if Stewart's gonna stretch the floor a little bit, it's not gonna lose you the game. So Cat doesn't really have to worry about that. Cat has to figure out a way to just be in position on some of the Kate stuff that he was out of position on in the third quarter. But if Durin's in, as much as he's gonna make you work, cause

• 1:21:36Speaker 01

  he's a beast out there, you don't really have to defend him. You just, and Cat's big enough and he's rebounded like at a Hall of Fame level his entire career. So he's gonna be able to fight for some of those rebounds. I'm sure Cat's looking at this being like, okay, I'm gonna get hurt on some of these where I come up to meet the ball and I'm gonna get burnt. But I'm also not worrying about like Porzingis as a stretch five, or I'm not worrying about some super dynamic guy who's gonna get all of these options offensively at center. So that's gonna be a bit of a relief for him. And you know, campaign scoring 11 points in just a few minutes. They didn't even bring back McHale to your point until like it was kinda over. So I don't, I don't know that there's a, if Detroit had done this, I just think they were completely overwhelmed, which the

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  fourth quarter made way more sense to me than the, the third quarter did yesterday.

• 1:22:26Bill Simmons?

  The third quarter of the fourth quarter was hilarious from a text standpoint. Cause I think at this point I was either at WrestleMania or we were going there and, and I just decided it's too hard for me to watch this Knicks game. I'm gonna just, I'll bang it out when I get home. I'll bang out like the second half. And I had these texts, I'm, I won't say who sent them, but one of them was, this is very disturbing to say the least. No ball movement. Brunson dribbling away. They're a better team with Robinson. And then 10 minutes later, I take it all back. That was one. Um, then there was a, another one, uh,

• 1:23:06Bill Simmons?

  The Dante Julius trade is such a disaster, motherfuck. And then right after timestamp above is when we tied game, by the way, it doesn't matter. And then I was like, ha, ha, you guys came back. It was a lot of those. The Knicks fans were freaking out in the third quarter. And that was what was so funny when the energy shifted, watching it on TV, knowing what had already happened.

• 1:23:26Bill Simmons?

  Look,

• 1:23:28Bill Simmons?

  it's a really good team. I don't think they're in the class of Boston. Like to me, they remind me of, oh, man, this is going to get clipped and probably come back to haunt me. They remind me of one of those NFL teams, like the, like a Houston Texans season where they win the wild card game. And it's like, do you think they can win three more? And it's like, not really.

• 1:23:47Bill Simmons?

  I just think they're going to beat the teams that they're better than. And when they get to that next class, that higher class, I don't think they have enough. Even the campaign thing, that's ridiculous. He's not gonna, he's gonna do that once every three weeks, right? That's not going to be a recurring thing with campaign. That's, if he does that again, it'll be a miracle.

• 1:24:08Bill Simmons?

  It's campaign.

• 1:24:08Speaker 01

  I don't know how, what, what, what other conclusion is anyone supposed to come to? Okay, I mean, this becomes, is this what you think is going to happen based on your analysis? Or is this what you hope happens because you have a poster at home? All right. And I can't, I can't argue with anybody like that. The only evidence we have is that they don't beat the elite teams because they didn't beat the elite teams. I mean, they basically wanted a fucking parade for losing in overtime to the Celtics. Like the reaction that I saw from that stuff was, hey, this is a turning point and proves that they can, they can hang with, with this team. They should smoke Detroit. Detroit's not ready for this. And they, they proved it in the fourth quarter. But that third quarter was fun. That third quarter, I was like, what's going on here?

• 1:24:49Bill Simmons?

  There's one thing with Detroit that I'm going to be really interested to see if they do it a little more. I thought Schroder had a really interesting second half. And I've always liked Schroder, as you know, like I, I probably like him more than most, but I think he's a pest. Like I always felt like he was the best guy in the league defending Steph. Out of anybody in the league, he would have been the number one guy I picked to just like bug Steph. And I feel like he can bug Brunson. And I do think there's some sort of lineup with two smaller guards, with Beasley, with the center, and then with the shooter that they might be able to at least hang around in these games. If I'm the Pistons, I still, I thought this was, I thought this is one of my favorite bets that the series would not go six games. I still don't think it's going to go six games, but if I'm the Pistons,

• 1:25:34Bill Simmons?

  you're at least talking yourself into, look, Cade's not going to be that bad again. He was really good all year. Like he has another, this will be a good motivating for them. That's,

• 1:25:43Speaker 01

  There's also something with Bickerstaff in this one that I don't know if it's worth even mentioning, but I'm going to mention it because it's a podcast.

• 1:25:51Speaker 01

  Matching the Assar minutes with Brunson. Now, Assar should be plenty fresh. He's young. He's literally more athletic than everybody else in the league except for maybe his brother and aunt, you know? But they actually had him out there when Brunson wasn't in, in the start of the fourth quarter. And I was just wondering.

• 1:26:13Bill Simmons?

  It should be like a cornerback coming in to just defend a specific receiver.

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  Cause even if you expect like no one with that profile in that age would ever actually get tired in a basketball game, I imagine the excitement and the adrenaline because of the stakes and the playoffs. Like, I don't know if I'd want to waste a couple of minutes of him being out there chasing other dudes around. And then Bickerstaff's clearly too, you know, a bit like the Ime thing. He was, he was trying to figure out what he thought was the best lineup because it's like, do I want to have a star out there without any kind of spacing because spacing is like the number one thing with Cade. I have to find a way to get spacing, but then it means defensively, like, does that mean now we've got guys hunting Beasley? We have guys hunting Hardaway. And by the way, if the Pistons get down 2-0 here or it's ugly, if it were ugly at the end of game two,

• 1:27:00Speaker 01

  I'm fully expecting like Avs, Red Wings type of moment, like somebody, Beasley is down for something. Shooter's not afraid to screw around. I don't know if it'd be a star.

• 1:27:10Bill Simmons?

  I thought it would happen during that 21-0 run.

• 1:27:15Bill Simmons?

  I was waiting for the clothesline or, you know, something like that. And by the way, that also should have been Memphis today. How many? How many baskets can OKC before you, somebody on the, you just have to at least contest a layup for God's sakes. It's pretty brutal. I'm not doing the old guy. Back in my day, we would have clothesline, blah, blah, blah.

• 1:27:34Speaker 01

  Well, the problem is, is when Memphis, when Memphis, there was one miss on that Jalen Williams dunk, not the one where he dunked on everybody. I think that was a little later. There was one earlier one where outside of, I think it was Pippen or Bain missed the shot and he was deep in the paint. And then I looked at where everybody was in transition and all four other Memphis players were feet below the free throw line. Like a couple were on the baseline. All four weren't on the baseline. So they didn't even have anybody positioned to do anything.

• 1:28:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:04Speaker 01

  It was, Jalen Williams was gone.

• 1:28:06Bill Simmons?

  I think you're right about game two, they're gonna definitely muck it up. That would be my Detroit. That would be my guess. We, we are gonna get a way more physical game. And we'll see the Bridges piece of it, which has been up and down all year. And we've talked about it a bunch of times.

• 1:28:24Speaker 01

  But he finished better. He definitely finished better, man. I felt, I felt great about him as, as the season went on.

• 1:28:31Bill Simmons?

  But it was a storyline is my point. It was discussed on and off during the season. I just want to shout out one thing with that Thompson does. I think he's the number one guy, if I'm inbounding the ball and I'm a point guard and I just have to dribble 50 feet to set up my offense, I think he's the number one guy I wouldn't want to see in front of me. There's something about what he does with cutting the angles off to the guy, like pushing them toward the sidelines, but being able to move his feet with his hands up. I've never seen anybody, I can't think of anybody who's been better. Like, maybe like, I have to go back to like,

• 1:29:09Bill Simmons?

  I don't remember that one. You even go way back for me. Pippen used to do that. Remember when Pippen and Jordan would do this sometimes? So they'd be like, hey, let's just go get the ball. And they would just like, they would defend 94 feet and people like literally couldn't dribble the ball up to midcourt. He is so terrifying. But I think for the Pistons, like putting those miles on Brunson where he's just like actually working just to get the ball 60 feet, like it's a real thing. So I bet they do that more.

• 1:29:35Speaker 01

  Well, that play where Brunson freaked out and got mad and started clapping at the ref.

• 1:29:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:39Speaker 01

  Asar had position on him. He just rode him right out of bounds. And maybe if I'd said Alvin Robertson, you would have remembered.

• 1:29:48Bill Simmons?

  Alvin had a good fight with Shaq.

• 1:29:52Bill Simmons?

  Remember that one?

• 1:29:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. I use David Robinson's last name, but Spurs getting older.

• 1:29:56Bill Simmons?

  It's fine. We're getting old. Cavs, Heat. Is there anything you need to see from Cleveland this series?

• 1:30:04Speaker 01

  Man, more Ty Jerome. 20 of 28 points.

• 1:30:08Bill Simmons?

  He, he, how many games has he done this? Like 20? Where he just completely takes over a game? Huh?

• 1:30:15Speaker 01

  Six. It's not 20. You think it's 20?

• 1:30:18Bill Simmons?

  Where he just takes over like a four minute stretch of a game.

• 1:30:22Speaker 01

  Uh, the Orlando game was off the charts. Right. This, this felt like a lot. I mean, he just comes in.

• 1:30:28Bill Simmons?

  We scored 17 points in five minutes.

• 1:30:31Speaker 01

  Mitchell and Garland are taking turns, so that's all working. So there was never like that lull. And then to, if you're Miami and you're fighting, you're trying so hard, like you have no chance in the playoffs with the construction of this team. And this is the best I've ever felt about hero as a shot creator, right? Him being the one option that you get to see some of the stuff that he's capable of doing. And it's really, really impressive. It's also really hard when the number two is Andrew Wiggins, who has like three makes in the first quarter. And then didn't have another make until like the fourth quarter. I think he had like two more, but it was just, one was like sort of in the game. The other one was completely irrelevant. So part of the Andrew Wiggins experience, as much as I love Bam, I love Bam.

• 1:31:13Speaker 01

  But offensively, there's going to be some limitations there. So that's your one, two. If you're Miami, trying to hang with Cleveland, that feels like they have all of these offensive options. And Ty Jerome comes in to close the game, scoring 20 of 28 points of Cleveland. Like it's just.

• 1:31:29Bill Simmons?

  Making like a 30 footer.

• 1:31:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:31:31Bill Simmons?

  You left out with your Miami options. You left, you left out the high screen with our guy Davion.

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  How about him in the Atlanta? Like it's a little difference with Trey Young is assigned to you. But Davion did have some more buckets because Davion feels like he probes a lot and there's certain people that he doesn't want to challenge. So I've been kind of mixed on like, how much is he really giving you offensively? And he's been terrific for him. So.

• 1:31:55Bill Simmons?

  He's definitely a rotation guy.

• 1:31:56Speaker 01

  Oh, easily.

• 1:31:57Bill Simmons?

  I think next year he's a hundred percent could be on a good team, playing 15 to 20 minutes a game. But the thing I texted this to you, I still don't understand why they punted on Schroder. And what the, what the thinking was with that. And I'm sure there was tax apron stuff, but I don't understand how the team we're watching in this game today didn't need Schroder for 20 minutes, 25 minutes. Like they basically nudged him away. And I know there was some financial implications to it, but it's a weird one.

• 1:32:27Speaker 01

  For Hero to have to go up against this defense, knowing that even if you pull a rabbit out of your hat, because he is like, there are some shots that Hero gets into that are really high level shots.

• 1:32:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:38Speaker 01

  Just on my own.

• 1:32:40Bill Simmons?

  Runner floater things he's doing is

• 1:32:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:43Bill Simmons?

  Pretty nuts.

• 1:32:44Speaker 01

  You know, I can't believe Portland said no to him in that Lillard trade because this guy's awesome.

• 1:32:52Speaker 01

  But the, the rest of the guys around him, like, and even Bam, like, there's only certain places he can start with the ball in his hands to be like, hey, we need a bucket now Bam. So then Hero's coming out of there. That's why it just, you kept looking at the score going, when is this thing going to be over? When is it going to be over? There's no way Cleveland's actually going to lose. There's no way this is going to be like a possession. Well, I

• 1:33:11Bill Simmons?

  Miami's not, Miami shouldn't be a playoff team. And honestly, neither should Memphis. Like there's 13 teams. There's Memphis and Miami. There's a, there's, you know, I think Orlando at least can throw some punches and has two good scorers. Like they feel playoff teamy to me. Right?

• 1:33:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:33Bill Simmons?

  I'm okay with them in the playoffs. They're obviously a guy short, but

• 1:33:36Speaker 01

  The argument for the play is, is, you know, there's plenty of teams that have had injuries and Memphis would say, hey, look, if we'd had Ja the full year, but I don't know, the West is so packed. Does it guarantee that they're a top six? I don't think that guarantees it.

• 1:33:49Bill Simmons?

  I think the Kyrie thing was the biggest one of all of them. I think if Kyrie had never gotten hurt, I think Dallas would have been a really good eight seed. They would have lost, but at least they would have had defense and a scorer and they would have been something of a team.

• 1:34:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, that would have been a fun team. I'm with you there, but I just want to come full circle on this whole playing thing.

• 1:34:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:08Speaker 01

  Because this was the reason I didn't like it.

• 1:34:11Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:34:11Speaker 01

  Because you're gonna have these teams, like there was, I would think, an eight-game win separation based on the 10 seed in the West. And then, what, the 7 seed or 8 seed? I forget. So I guess I could pull it up right now, but the point stands is that why are you giving these teams that stink another chance to get into this entire thing? Now, there still had to be eight teams, but it just was funny, like when you had Lakers Warriors with the Steph LeBron showdown four years ago, and it's like, oh, I thought the plan stunk. And it's like, no, it's the principle. It is what the, what the plan stands for. If the games are good, then of course, we're all going to enjoy good games. But guess what happened this year? Now, everybody doesn't like the plan, simply because of the results of the games and whether or not they were entertaining.

• 1:34:53Bill Simmons?

  And they don't tell Amazon, because I think this is part of their package. I think they're, Amazon was excited for the plan, but they're, how many good?

• 1:35:00Speaker 01

  Well, it's not going anywhere.

• 1:35:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:02Speaker 01

  It doesn't matter. It's just.

• 1:35:03Bill Simmons?

  We went 2 for 6 in the play-in this year. I'd love to know the batting average for the four years, but it's gotta be about 30%.

• 1:35:09Speaker 01

  Miami, Atlanta was great. It was a fun game.

• 1:35:12Bill Simmons?

  I enjoyed it as well. It was a fun one. Um, I wonder if it should just be 8, 8, 9, winner of 8, 9 plays the 7 for the 7, 8 seeding or something like that, and we just get rid of the 10 seed. I think it's gonna be hard to find a, a 10 seed that is, kinda deserves to get any sort of stage. You're gonna end up in like that weird Sacramento thing. I mean, we didn't even talk about the Sacramento. This, this is, this is now a top three. What the hell is this organization gonna do? Organization. This is a bonus piece of it. Um, you know.

• 1:35:48Speaker 01

  And I thought Bonnie McNair did a good job. I'm, I'm guarantee you Vivek wanted Zach Levine.

• 1:35:56Speaker 01

  He seems like the kind of guy an owner would be like, but he scores a million points.

• 1:36:01Bill Simmons?

  Celtics, Orlando, anything before we go to Pacers Bucks? The last one?

• 1:36:05Speaker 01

  I thought we were gonna lead with it. That's what you'd said in the text, the show rundown that I got.

• 1:36:09Bill Simmons?

  Which one?

• 1:36:11Speaker 01

  Go for it. Go for it. Come on. Give us a couple of minutes, Bill.

• 1:36:16Bill Simmons?

  Celtics are really good. Orlando doesn't have enough good players and Orlando needs some sort of guard who can create stuff for them because what they have is not enough. That's my analysis. The disparity between the two teams was significant.

• 1:36:33Bill Simmons?

  I never for a split second thought the Celtics were in danger of losing the game.

• 1:36:38Bill Simmons?

  And Tatum didn't even play well offensively. He's had a good rebounding game. I liked how hard he played. I thought he was good defensively, thought he attacked the rim. But the guards won the game and Drew clearly has multiple gears. Like the Drew that was in the game today, they were Drew, he's doing that Chad Finn called it the Dennis Johnson. Like I'll turn it on when the games start matter and he's, you know, he's, he just looked great. Porzingis looks good. Team looks good. Feeling good. Jalen's knee looked okay.

• 1:37:06Bill Simmons?

  Didn't see any red flags anywhere.

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  Tatum wrist x-rays? All good? Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I knew you were on that.

• 1:37:14Bill Simmons?

  I had a couple of Celtic fans in my life who were mad about that foul. I thought it was, I thought it was a good play. I thought they were trying to stop a dunk. Like it's fucking playoff basketball. Your job is to try to stop somebody from dunking in traffic, you know, and they caught a flagrant one on it. I could have gone either way on it, but I didn't have a problem with that. I didn't think it was cheap. Did you?

• 1:37:33Speaker 01

  No, I didn't even think it was a flagrant run. It's all depends on how you land. Everybody's, everybody's in their mind. If you want to tell me Wendell Carter had his hand in his back a little bit. Okay, fine. But I didn't think it was like an extended arm thing out, but the standard of what we all now think is flagrant. It's like concussion experts on Twitter on Thursday night football. They're like, oh, dude, you didn't look very good. Be like, you're not even on the sideline, dude. You're home.

• 1:37:55Speaker 01

  Look, I didn't think it was a flagrant foul, but you're right. I mean, Tatum's eight of 22, one of eight from three. Jalen Brown, six of 14. And by the way, his foul at the end of the third quarter, which then restarted at the end of the third quarter, like he has got. I don't know what's going on over there at Harvard, but they, there needs to be a, hey, this would be a good time to foul. This would be a bad time to foul. Maybe it's a one credit conference. Yeah, it doesn't. Yeah, maybe we get a paper. Somebody put a paper together. Cause he just, he has these moments, man, where I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? Uh, anyway, six of 14 today. So that's what 14 for 36 from your two best players and you close this one out almost up 20.

• 1:38:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, when their guards play like that, they're, yeah, it's very hard for them to lose.

• 1:38:41Speaker 01

  There'll be no Palo slander also because you got to see that tonight. And I thought Drew on Palo, at least making him have to work to get into his stuff. Uh, but Orlando has no chance. We knew they had no chance. And I also thought if we're doing a Wendell Carter, maybe update, he played today. You may not have noticed.

• 1:39:01Bill Simmons?

  He had like 12 rebounds.

• 1:39:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, but to see his effort level against somebody like Al Horford's effort level when Al knew they needed to crank up the energy. And Al's fighting and he's grabbing loose balls and he's starting the fast break. And you're like, man, Carter was actually like, when I did him, his draft year, praising, I was like, he kinda has a little Horford-ish stuff in there. If that's even a word. And then it's like, yep, there's no,

• 1:39:31Speaker 01

  there's no wonder look for desire, Bill.

• 1:39:35Bill Simmons?

  I was trying to think of a scenario where Orlando could win a game because I still feel like Boston's not going to sweep. I think Boston will have a weird game where they just don't make threes. But I also think if they played defense, it would be impossible for Orlando to get to like 98 points. So it would have to be the combination of not making threes, not playing defense for like an hour and get Orlando up. But I, if Boston plays defense, I just don't see how Orlando's going to score. Even in the game today, they had 18 points in the first quarter, 18 in the third, 19 in the fourth. Like it's just. This can be really hard.

• 1:40:09Speaker 01

  No, they're, they're so bad on offense at times.

• 1:40:11Bill Simmons?

  It's just tough to watch.

• 1:40:13Speaker 01

  Right. So their third leading scorer with Jonathan, Jonathan Isaac with, uh, you want to guess how many points?

• 1:40:18Bill Simmons?

  10?

• 1:40:19Speaker 01

  Seven.

• 1:40:20Bill Simmons?

  Oof. Okay. This episode is brought to by WeatherTech. Whether it's a pumpkin spice coffee that goes splat in your seat or a weekend tailgate that leaves your trunk full of gear and who knows what, you're going to want WeatherTech in your vehicle. Whether you call it fall, autumn, or spooky season, whether the mess is your fault, the kids, the dogs, or the weather's fault, you're going to want WeatherTech for American-made floor liners and a cargo liner that laugh in the face of fall weather. Visit weatherTech.com today. All right, quick break. This episode is brought to you by Fire TV. You ever sit down, ready to watch the game, only to search and scroll endlessly? If so, you need Fire TV. It shows you are live games from your favorite teams all in one place, right on the home screen. No more searching. Just sit down and turn on Fire TV.

• 1:41:02Bill Simmons?

  Separate subscriptions may be required. Feature and content availability may vary. We'll end with Pacers Bucks.

• 1:41:10Speaker 01

  That's for last.

• 1:41:13Bill Simmons?

  I love the Pacers in the series. I thought the single best bet on FanDuel heading into the playoffs was Pacers win game one. Pacers win the series was I think plus 138, something like that.

• 1:41:24Speaker 01

  Look at you.

• 1:41:25Bill Simmons?

  The Bucks looked horrible. Uh, Dame didn't play. There was this weird, Dame's gonna, Dame's back. I think people thought he was going to be back for game one, just because of the way the announcement came out.

• 1:41:37Speaker 01

  Well, they said he was off the medication, so.

• 1:41:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:40Speaker 01

  Cause he was off.

• 1:41:40Bill Simmons?

  But even if he comes back, he's not going to be in game shape. The Pacers love to pressure the ball full court. I just think there's so many things wrong. And then you move into, well, what was asked to happen for the Bucks to win the series? Well, Kevin Porter needs to really come through. It's like, well, he wasn't on the team two months ago. So I'm not, it's okay. I'm not going to count on that.

• 1:41:58Bill Simmons?

  And just like pencil in Yanis for 38 and 20 every game, I still don't think they're winning the series. And I also think the Pacers are good. I think Pacers Cleveland is going to be a really, really good series, but the big question is. You know, is the clock going to start on Giannis? That's going to be the ESPN topic tomorrow, especially if they fall down 2-0. What happens to Giannis? Where's he going to go? Like, and this is, we said all this before the playoffs.

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, but we can't do that to the Bucks. You can't do that to the Bucks after one game. There can't be a Giannis, where's he going to go after one fucking playoff game?

• 1:42:31Bill Simmons?

  It was starting on Saturday after that game.

• 1:42:34Speaker 01

  Where are they?

• 1:42:34Bill Simmons?

  It was bad.

• 1:42:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:42:36Bill Simmons?

  It was a bad loss and you start going, okay, this kind of sucks if you're Giannis. He's been 30, 12 and 6 for seven straight years and he's never been in a weaker situation with his roster. You know, it is what it is.

• 1:42:51Speaker 01

  I'd like to submit like a weekly Nico Harrison award based on the quote that you're like, what?

• 1:42:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:59Speaker 01

  And I'd submit Bobby Portis had some pregame availability with Katie George, who did the sideline for this game pre ESPN. And she was saying, Bobby, you know, he's been around here a long time. And he said that this Bucks team is the best version of any of the teams that he's been on. And I expected like, except for the team that won the title. Yeah. And no, no, no, no, Bill, not so fast. He said, even that team.

• 1:43:27Bill Simmons?

  He did an even that team for the team that won the title? Wow.

• 1:43:30Speaker 01

  The 22 team was better. The 22 team was really good. If Middleton had been healthy, who knows?

• 1:43:38Bill Simmons?

  Grant Williams, six threes.

• 1:43:41Speaker 01

  You know, Rushmore, start talking about it. Not the movie. Best player, Giannis was fantastic. Nobody else did anything else around him. I think at one point he had like 36 of the 50. I mean,

• 1:43:52Bill Simmons?

  I never liked the Kuzma trade at any point of 2025.

• 1:43:56Speaker 01

  Tony Snell off the hook.

• 1:43:59Bill Simmons?

  You think Snell is replaced by Kuzma? Yeah.

• 1:44:01Speaker 01

  Well, just the meme.

• 1:44:04Speaker 01

  22 minutes, 0 for 5, zero boards, zero assists, zero points. You want to guess how many blocks and steals he had?

• 1:44:12Bill Simmons?

  None?

• 1:44:13Speaker 01

  Zero and zero. Zero turnovers.

• 1:44:18Bill Simmons?

  Well, tomorrow we have Detroit, New York and Clippers, Denver, which I think is a that Clippers, Denver, that was a really hard game of all the games. I would have said it would be nice if those guys had one more day off. I probably would have picked that series, but somehow they're played again. So we'll see with that. But those are two really good games tomorrow.

• 1:44:39Bill Simmons?

  I went from thinking Indiana would win in less than six to now wondering if this could potentially get ugly. Because if I'm Milwaukee,

• 1:44:52Bill Simmons?

  I need Dame to come back for the third game. And I also need him to be pretty good.

• 1:45:00Bill Simmons?

  And that just seems like I'm keeping my fingers crossed on both of those at that point. I continue to think Indiana is really good. Like I thought I put, I put some of my favorite playoff bets on Friday. And I thought the Indiana, Indiana was 28 to one to win the East. I don't think they're going to win the East, but I thought those odds were pretty good because you'd have to take out Cleveland and they know they could play with Boston and just 28 to one is those are crazy, crazy odds. It's at least if you're going to take a crazy flyer on someone, not a bad one. I think Indiana is a good team.

• 1:45:35Bill Simmons?

  And sometimes they're their own worst enemies, but they are definitely better than Milwaukee. And I don't think it's going to matter what Yanis does. So so we try not to overreact to game one, but that game confirmed everything I thought heading into the series that Indiana just has a better basketball team.

• 1:45:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, no breaking news there. I mean, you expect a little bit more out of Kuzma. Torian Prince also had zero.

• 1:45:57Bill Simmons?

  Kuzma versus Porter, who had a worse weekend?

• 1:46:00Speaker 01

  I mean, it was just an absolute donut from everybody other than AJ Green hitting a few threes and Kevin Porter Jr. getting to the free throw line.

• 1:46:09Speaker 01

  It's, you know, Yanis owns any of the numbers that you would look at as like, hey, what has he done against Siakam? All right, he's done this. What has he done against Turner? Okay, he's, he's done this and he owns these dudes. But you know, he's, he's playing point guard now. I mean, you want to talk about a dude out there by himself. You know? This is. Some people were calling it the John Popper of the NBA and I don't know if that's fair to the guys in Blues traveler, but.

• 1:46:37Bill Simmons?

  You say it a good run.

• 1:46:39Bill Simmons?

  It's tough when a basketball player hits the point where you can give them the best possible stat line for the game and also say their team's still gonna lose.

• 1:46:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, like no chance.

• 1:46:49Bill Simmons?

  Like game two, Giannis, 42, 27 assists. Do they win? And I'd be like, eh, probably not. That's where it gets tough.

• 1:46:59Speaker 01

  I know how you were talking about just all the nonsense, but we have to be, because we're guilty of it too, but we don't do it, but we're guilty of referencing it. And I know I am, and sometimes I try to stop myself from doing it, but I just sometimes you can't, right? Because you just see so much of it. But just like, there's a whole anti Curry camp, right? And they, they argue these points. There's a lot of anti Tatum people and.

• 1:47:23Bill Simmons?

  It's a weird one.

• 1:47:24Speaker 01

  It's, it's very strange. And like today would be another example of like, oh, once again, Tatum needs to be bailed out of like a bad playoff performance.

• 1:47:31Bill Simmons?

  I heard from a Laker fan today who mailed me his box who were like, yo, your boy.

• 1:47:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, don't understand.

• 1:47:37Bill Simmons?

  14 rebounds.

• 1:47:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gave up 40 open threes last night, buddy. Uh, so all of that exists. So all of the Giannis stuff exists, but you know, until I would see like, whether it was you thinking you've heard something or a wind horse or Shams, like there's somebody that really mattered that kind of like brought it out on a radar or is justifiable. I know that it's being talked about, but a lot of stuff that's talked about, it's just like, okay, but who, who are the people that are actually talking about this stuff? Even it's being discussed all of the time.

• 1:48:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:10Speaker 01

  And there was a really funny one, because I would put this in the category of like something that I've read, and I forget who wrote it, but I was reading a bunch of the playoff previews and the person made the argument that was like, I like the Bucks in this series if Dame doesn't come back. I'm like, God. And after this game.

• 1:48:27Bill Simmons?

  Good zag.

• 1:48:28Speaker 01

  Right. After this game, I'm thinking, all right, well, whatever you think the low end of the Dame experience is, at least there's another score out there that also balances out the court and it's some outlet that's better than, you know, all of these dudes.

• 1:48:46Bill Simmons?

  Safety net of Kyle Kuzma does the 000 across the board.

• 1:48:52Bill Simmons?

  Um, so I went to WrestleMania in and out yesterday.

• 1:48:56Speaker 01

  How'd that go? Did you drive? Car service?

• 1:48:58Bill Simmons?

  No, I was, I was able to, uh, somebody I knew was going in and out same day.

• 1:49:03Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:49:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:05Speaker 01

  Very nice.

• 1:49:08Bill Simmons?

  And at one point was sitting with, um, Dana White was like four seats down with his right hand guy, very nice guy. And my son, big UFC fan, um, and his buddy, kind of, my son has a way of doing this. All of a sudden is in a conversation with the right hand guy and, uh, got some info on international fight week. And, uh, there's a fight coming in that week that my son, he'll, he'll make this face three times a year that we always make fun of where he's been making it. So he's a little kid where he's overwhelmed by something and he's kind of just deer and like legitimate deer in the headlights. And he found out one of the fights and made the deer in the headlights face, but I'm not going to say it because I don't want to betray

• 1:49:54Bill Simmons?

  the confidence, but let's just say, uh, my son is now demanding we go to international fight week.

• 1:49:59Speaker 01

  By the way, how does your son handle, I would say over the years, the access of your friend group and, you know, some celebrity?

• 1:50:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:06Speaker 01

  You know, let's not pretend. How does he handle himself? Is he?

• 1:50:09Bill Simmons?

  He's great. Oh, his handshake, eye contact, um, kind of knows when to move in and out of the combo.

• 1:50:16Speaker 01

  Not annoying?

• 1:50:18Bill Simmons?

  No, not annoying.

• 1:50:20Bill Simmons?

  Low usage rate.

• 1:50:22Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:50:23Bill Simmons?

  He'll space the floor. Um, if it's somebody he wants to engage with, he'll do it. If it's something like there's a common interest thing.

• 1:50:30Speaker 01

  Like a go bear switch?

• 1:50:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, or he'll move back. Yeah.

• 1:50:35Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:50:35Bill Simmons?

  That's good. Um, but yeah, we were there.

• 1:50:37Speaker 01

  In the way.

• 1:50:38Bill Simmons?

  It seems like we were there for the better WrestleMania day because, uh, I think today was a little bit worse, although John Cena, I know you were focused on that. Another Massachusetts title.

• 1:50:48Speaker 01

  He's a bad guy?

• 1:50:49Bill Simmons?

  Title again. Bad guy, uh, turn heel. And, uh, won the title with some help from your guy Travis Scott. Came in and helped him out.

• 1:50:58Speaker 01

  That's cool.

• 1:50:59Bill Simmons?

  He's your guy, but he came in, surprise.

• 1:51:02Speaker 01

  I think he did a really good job of the shoes.

• 1:51:04Bill Simmons?

  Uh, my highlight though was behind, behind like in the, uh, in the back room underneath, um,

• 1:51:11Bill Simmons?

  Steven Mel was there who was starred in Heels, which is a show that I really liked that was on Starz. And this guy, Chris Bower, was also on Heels. He played like the bad guy. But he's been in a bunch of movies. He was Sabaka in The Wire. And he's been in a bunch of movies, but he was Machine in Eight Millimeter, a movie that I love and Van Lathan loves, my friend Jeff Gallow loves, and I'm not sure anyone else loves, Nick Cage. So I was really excited to meet him and I opened with, I'm a huge fan of Eight Millimeter. I love Machine. I don't think he gets it much. Seems genuinely surprised, but.

• 1:51:46Speaker 01

  So he's the main union guy, Sabaka?

• 1:51:49Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah. Frank Sabaka.

• 1:51:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:53Speaker 01

  He was great. I thought Sabaka, I know the storyline, season two, people don't really like it that much.

• 1:51:57Bill Simmons?

  No, season two's good. People gotta give season two another chance. Plus Pablo's in it. Like, there's great actors in that season. Pablo Schreiber, then The Thieves.

• 1:52:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like Sabaka. He's totally, totally believable in that role. I thought he did a great job.

• 1:52:13Bill Simmons?

  He probably gets Sabaka the most, I would guess, from the interactions. I don't know if he got a lot of Machine. Machine was the killer in Eight Millimeter. He was the killer in the stuff film. And he wore like a, like a gimp leather mask and there's a big fight scene at the end with him and Nick Cage. So, yeah. Good one.

• 1:52:33Speaker 01

  Okay, but is there anything, is there any wrestling stuff that we need to know about? The world needs to know about?

• 1:52:39Bill Simmons?

  Um, you know, I think Charlotte Flair is really great. I think she's the best woman's wrestler I've ever seen in person.

• 1:52:48Speaker 01

  Since China?

• 1:52:50Bill Simmons?

  No, just best in general. I don't think China, China's not a lot of conversations. I think China's, China's a little more like, I don't know, like she had a brief, brief apex.

• 1:53:01Speaker 01

  Who's the Irish one? Becky?

• 1:53:03Bill Simmons?

  Becky Lynch. She married Seth Rollins. She had a, she was the biggest star in the company for about a year and then she married Seth Rollins and they had a kid. So I thought she kind of phased back a little bit.

• 1:53:15Speaker 01

  I found her SportsCenter ad annoying.

• 1:53:19Bill Simmons?

  So did you notice in the Masters, they were rerunning some of the old SportsCenter ads? I forgot how great those were. Like they were rerunning the Tiger Woods ad, a couple of them.

• 1:53:31Speaker 01

  I love those ads.

• 1:53:32Bill Simmons?

  I love them too. I was kind of nostalgic for them.

• 1:53:35Speaker 01

  I remember, I think when they first started the whole This is SportsCenter campaign, it was some, it was some ad agency in Portland, Oregon, I think. And I wrote them a letter. It was like, oh, you know, I like sports. I mean, you know, this is me doing my Douglas Copeland shampoo planet writing letter phase of my life, but uh.

• 1:53:54Bill Simmons?

  Wasn't it Witten Kennedy? That's a denim, right? They're in Portland.

• 1:53:57Speaker 01

  You would know better than I would. Yeah.

• 1:53:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's what it was.

• 1:54:00Speaker 01

  It was just, they were so good. The funny thing was, is then, once I started working there, they actually kind of like made sense because you could be in a situation where you're like, why is so and so in the salad bar line with me or something like that. But then there was like a real like, that guy's in one or.

• 1:54:19Bill Simmons?

  I was gonna say, the funniest thing about SportsCenter was the, the fucking jockeying to be in the SportsCenter commercial. There were so many stories about that. People being mad that this person got in and they weren't. This person's been in three. I haven't been in one yet. He's been in four. I've only been in one. It was fantastic.

• 1:54:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then they just kind of fell off. I mean, they had a really good run for a really long time. I think there was always a little animosity that Van Pelt was in so many of them, but he was just really good at it.

• 1:54:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I liked them. Uh, and I saw Sinners on Friday too, and I thought it was spectacular.

• 1:54:53Speaker 01

  I saw Warfare in the theater on Thursday, a couple of moviegoers. It is so fucking good. Okay. It is that good. I love it for a bunch of different reasons, but I love that a studio let a couple of guys make a movie on an experience that they knew firsthand. And they were like, here's the script. It's gonna be just one location for like 90 minutes, going through this one thing. And it's gonna be really graphic. It's gonna be very stressful. It's gonna cause anxiety. And it's gonna have all these different moments, but it's gonna be like the most realistic approach to a war scene you can possibly have. There's no girlfriend. There's no, does this kid betray someone? And there's a forbidden.

• 1:55:39Speaker 01

  Connection based on cultures. It's like, nope. These guys are in this room and they're fucked and they got to get them out of there. And we'll see what happens and we're going to stay in this room with them for 90 minutes and seeing it in the theater.

• 1:55:50Bill Simmons?

  Movies are back.

• 1:55:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, the, the number of moments were like, it was just the sound and you know, it wasn't like a super complicated. Dynamic. There's not some like memento, like, oh my God, this is, I can't believe Christopher Nolan did this. I just love that they let them do that. Now sinners, everybody's raving about that. Give us the quick pitch. Sell.

• 1:56:11Bill Simmons?

  I just think Kugler's on the short, short, short, short list of the best directors.

• 1:56:18Bill Simmons?

  It's so original. I went into it knowing nothing. I intentionally read nothing. I didn't want to know anything. I just knew vampires were involved. The Michael B. Jordan was in it. I knew nothing else. And uh,

• 1:56:30Bill Simmons?

  it's just so original and so cool. Um, and it shifts a couple of times and it has a couple of surprises in there. I thought it was the best Jordan performance ever. Um, he's playing, I don't even want to say, I don't want to spoil it.

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  Better than the Jazz finals?

• 1:56:46Bill Simmons?

  Michael B. Jordan, his best performance ever.

• 1:56:53Bill Simmons?

  I was just blown away. I thought it was great. I'm going to see it again. It's a very short list.

• 1:56:57Speaker 01

  Wait, you're going twice?

• 1:56:58Bill Simmons?

  I'm going to go again. Yeah. It's very short list of movies I've seen twice in like two weeks in the theater. Cause I think it's a theater movie. Um, you'll still have fun watching it in, you know, in your house or your apartment, wherever you are out there. But, um, I think it's a crucial theater movie and, uh, I just thought it was really cool and I'm still glad. I felt the same way. I remember walking out of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, same way. You're just like, man, that was just so original and so cool and so well casted. And there was, everybody was so good and I just had a great time. So anyway, I loved it. And it seems like it's doing well. Which is nice. So movies not dead yet.

• 1:57:38Speaker 01

  No, go to the theater, kids.

• 1:57:40Bill Simmons?

  And you're still in on The Office.

• 1:57:43Speaker 01

  What are you talking about?

• 1:57:44Bill Simmons?

  You're still, not The Office, the studio.

• 1:57:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, uh, there's a couple of episodes, one episode I

• 1:57:53Bill Simmons?

  dipped a little. Yeah, it's a little erratic.

• 1:57:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, but uh, it's really well done. So I've, I've enjoyed that part of it.

• 1:58:02Bill Simmons?

  I like your friends and neighbors too. I've enjoyed that. Friends and neighbors. Enjoyed 1923. I thought it was another strong season. I really liked the Sheridan universe.

• 1:58:12Bill Simmons?

  Um, I have not watched Mob Land yet.

• 1:58:15Speaker 01

  By the way,

• 1:58:16Bill Simmons?

  decent things.

• 1:58:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm just about to start that one. May even do it tonight as I wind down for the adrenaline rush of this podcast, but

• 1:58:23Bill Simmons?

  it's YouTube live.

• 1:58:25Speaker 01

  Warfare, I think I forgot I was live like 45 minutes ago. Warfare, Cosmo Jarvis, the lead in Shogun. When's the IPO and what is the limit? Because I think Cosmo Jarvis might be next. Speaking of ESPN magazine covers.

• 1:58:45Bill Simmons?

  Cosmo Jarvis.

• 1:58:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:47Bill Simmons?

  Make the case.

• 1:58:51Speaker 01

  Um, you know, Shogun, I wasn't a hundred percent sure. Like he was great. I love Shogun. It was awesome. I was surprised even how much I loved it. Uh, maybe I shouldn't have been, you know, history guy, ninjas, you know, pretty much checks everything I need. Uh, but he wasn't like just badass throughout that. He was playful. He was funny, but then he was dealing with like the romance part of it. So he had to like, do a bunch of different things because I think if he was just the Punisher for 10 episodes, that lack of depth and storyline maybe gets a little bit old. Um, he, for whatever reason, just in this, he's, he's mastering the, I don't have to do that much and owns the scene.

• 1:59:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. So.

• 1:59:37Bill Simmons?

  Are you excited for the Damon Affleck movie?

• 1:59:41Speaker 01

  Rip? Which one is it?

• 1:59:42Bill Simmons?

  It's called Rip.

• 1:59:43Speaker 01

  I think it's called Rip Toren?

• 1:59:45Bill Simmons?

  It's a heist movie.

• 1:59:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course I am.

• 1:59:47Bill Simmons?

  Coming out in the fall.

• 1:59:50Speaker 01

  Where's it take place?

• 1:59:50Bill Simmons?

  Then accountant two, Affleck and Berthold. A lot of good stuff coming up. Um, all right. So we're going to wrap up. You have two more podcasts this week.

• 1:59:59Speaker 01

  Ever.

• 1:59:59Bill Simmons?

  Tues- Tuesday, Thursday. What's the number one thing you're most excited about for the playoffs? This week?

• 2:00:08Speaker 01

  Oh, it's Clippers. It's Clippers Nuggets game too. I can't, I can't wait.

• 2:00:13Bill Simmons?

  Me too. You know what's sad?

• 2:00:16Speaker 01

  We were far too aligned tonight, by the way. God.

• 2:00:18Bill Simmons?

  Nah, that happens sometimes. You know what's sad, though? The Magic weren't quite good enough today to pull Sarudy for like four minutes. That was like the bar. It's like, can the Magic be good enough that it's like, hey, there's something to pull Saru- and it just wasn't there. And I think, deep down, he knows it, too.

• 2:00:35Speaker 01

  Anybody that's watched them, you know, post Suggs, I think the only thing that you do is you go, hey, you have a real chance, you know, years moving forward because of Paolo. That's, that's what today was. It was, it was a reminder that Magic fans that already know that. And it's, I think, a necessary reminder because I'm sure Paolo wasn't exactly a guy a ton of people were watching on League Pass.

• 2:00:57Bill Simmons?

  Paolo Franz Suggs, some, some cap space potentially, some, some moves.

• 2:01:03Speaker 01

  I don't know, man. Franz is starting to feel like a recalibration nominee.

• 2:01:08Bill Simmons?

  Oh, no.

• 2:01:09Speaker 01

  Adjusted ceilings?

• 2:01:12Bill Simmons?

  Man, he was so good for that three weeks before he got hurt. For the, for the oblique virus caught him.

• 2:01:19Speaker 01

  If we let Sarudy in right now, he would just start to say, oh, okay.

• 2:01:22Bill Simmons?

  We can't. It'll be another 10 minutes. We gotta wrap up. We gotta wrap up. The, the shot hitch is terrifying, he said.

• 2:01:27Speaker 01

  It's terrifying. It is.

• 2:01:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. He didn't have it in November.

• 2:01:31Speaker 01

  Sarudy tells the truth, man.

• 2:01:34Bill Simmons?

  Um, how fired up are you for the draft on a scale of one and 10?

• 2:01:39Speaker 01

  NFL Draft?

• 2:01:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:42Speaker 01

  I'm always pretty excited, but I'm getting selfish as I get a little bit older. And it's just a lot of stuff going on.

• 2:01:49Bill Simmons?

  I'm an eight. In fact, I'm not going to Clippers game three. Gave away my ticket already.

• 2:01:57Speaker 01

  I would rather watch Denver Clippers than watch, like, with the draft.

• 2:02:01Bill Simmons?

  The Pats have the fourth pick. I'm not, I, I, I just not, I can't juggle it.

• 2:02:07Bill Simmons?

  Plus, they might trade back up until the, I, I'm not missing it. It's too important.

• 2:02:11Speaker 01

  Are you thrilled that Belichick doesn't have the pick just so he could not use it? And then he's like, we got a 28 from who? Cleveland?

• 2:02:21Bill Simmons?

  I, I, I'm kind of shocked how embedded I've been in the mock draft stuff. I even cold called McShay on Friday. We finally crossed that line. I just called him on a Friday night.

• 2:02:30Speaker 01

  You just called him?

• 2:02:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Just called him.

• 2:02:35Bill Simmons?

  I want to talk about the Giants at three. I just was like, fuck it. I'm calling McShay.

• 2:02:39Speaker 01

  McShay called me.

• 2:02:40Bill Simmons?

  Seven thirty Friday night.

• 2:02:42Speaker 01

  He's like, there's something in my contract. He's like, the number, length, hour shows. He's like, all this makes sense. He's like, there's something he said that Bill gets seven emergency phone calls per twelve months.

• 2:02:52Bill Simmons?

  Simmons can just call me on a Friday night out of nowhere. Yeah, I just had some, I had some thoughts. He is good intel. Fun person to talk to. I'm glad you brought him into my life. He's here in LA this week. We're gonna be doing stuff for them here, doing draft stuff.

• 2:03:05Speaker 01

  He already flew here. Uh, he has a lot. The, the number of, it gets different. Again, he's not the reporter or whatever, but he talks to everyone. So those phone calls with him are far more valuable than I think even he can provide on.

• 2:03:21Bill Simmons?

  I think he's been, I, I know I'm biased, but I think he's been absolutely lights out with the draft this year. I've loved the newsletter. I've loved the podcast. Um, the intel's good. I trust his mock draft stuff. I like our Ringer draft guys too. Like, I just feel like, as you know, I don't watch a ton of college football and I'm diving into this and trying to grab all these opinions and get a feel for the tiers of the draft, all that stuff, but,

• 2:03:47Bill Simmons?

  it's a pretty interesting draft. This, this Gentey could go to the right team and it sounds like he could just be incredible right away. Or he could be trapped behind some shit offensive line, but it really does, it is fun when these running backs can come in right away and be like, one of the four or five best guys in the league, coming out of the gate out of nowhere. There's, you know, my, my thing with the Pats, and I'll probably say this five more times on the pod this week, but like, if you have the fourth pick, I feel like you have to get a blue chipper. You just have to. It's too high of a pick. You can't be like, we like this left tackle. He has a chance to be the seventeenth best left tackle of the week. Like, I need to get somebody who's like an impact fucking dude. And, uh, We'll see what happens. Need the Giants to make a mistake, basically. Anyway,

• 2:04:31Bill Simmons?

  you'll be covering this on Tuesday, on Thursday as well. I'm sure I will be talking about it as well, at least on Tuesday. Russillo, great to see you on this.

• 2:04:40Speaker 01

  We're going Friday. Yeah, we're gonna do a big recap.

• 2:04:42Bill Simmons?

  You're going Friday? Oh, after runway? Okay.

• 2:04:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:43Bill Simmons?

  Good to see you on this YouTube Live. Thanks to Sir Rudy and Gahow as well. Thanks to everybody who watched and threw some stuff in the chat. I kept going in there to try to grab some stuff, but it was like scrolling fast. It was hard to follow. But we will see you in a couple of days. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Chris Sutton. Thanks to Gahow. Thanks to Sir Rudy. And don't forget to rewatch what's coming on Monday night. We did Minority Report. Don't forget Zach Lowe's first playoff podcast. He's gonna be taping on Monday morning with Howard Beck. So be a nice little bookend to this one. And we also have the group chat guys on Ringer NBA. They're going on Sunday morning. So we try to stagger this. So we'll

• 2:05:25Bill Simmons?

  have something going every little bit. So pods aren't overlapping. And then we have Ringer NBA Show. We have Logan and Raja. We have that going as well. We have the mismatch with Jacoby and Verno. We have Ringer Gambling Show. We have stuff covered all different ways. JJ on New York, New York, Brian Barrett on Off the Pike. So we're here. NBA playoffs, favorite time of the year. NFL Draft coming as well. McShay Show, Ringer NFL Draft Show. McShay is in LA. Bunch of great stuff. So great week for us. Hope you enjoy all the content. I will see you in this podcast on Tuesday.

• 2:06:18Bill Simmons?

  Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-8778-HOPE.

• 2:06:50Bill Simmons?

  NY or text HOPE NY in New York. This episode is brought to you by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, I like those guys, star in the sharp-witted comedy thriller from Academy Award winner Martin McDonagh. Writer-director of The Banshees of Inisherin and Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, set in the 1970s, filmed on location on Easter Island. Malkovich and Rockwell play CIA agents Chris and Lee, who are caught in a dangerous game of secrets and survival. Also starring Steve Buscemi, another one of my guys. Parker Posey and Tom Waits. Wild Horse 9 is being hailed by critics as a revitalizing shot of pure entertainment and easily one of the best films of the year.

• 2:07:34Bill Simmons?

  Don't miss Wild Horse 9, only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now.

• 2:07:39Speaker 02

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