Jackie Aina: I Block People to Protect My Business "I Have Too Much To Lose"

Jackie Aina-Asamoah joins Maggie Sellers Reum to talk YouTube virality, Black women in makeup, dark skin representation, FORVR Mood, luxury, money, NDAs, internet drama and building a fragrance empire! Can you believe Jackie went from being paid $300 a month in the Army to becoming one of YouTube’s biggest beauty voices - at a time when makeup counters didn’t even display her shade! She tells Maggie what happened when she called out brands for failing darker skin, why they had to listen and how it made her career… Jackie also spills on selling 20,000 candles in four hours, why she DOESN’T want a $1B business, never going back to broke, working with her husband Denis Asamoah, blocking trolls, hiding her wedding online, parasocial fans and how you can protect your brand on social media! #JackieAina #Beauty #Makeup Timestamps: (00:00:00) Intro (00:01:29) Fit Check! (00:02:05) Trap Of Doing Everything (00:02:57) Why Jackie Quit Sweatpants (00:05:35) From Fashion Dreams To Army (00:10:03) Femininity In Masculine Spaces (00:13:45) Betting On YouTube (00:14:07) Going Viral (00:16:27) Beauty Ignored Darker Skin (00:21:01) Stopping People Pleasing (00:24:05) No Posts Regretted (00:24:37) Huda Beauty’s Evolution (00:27:56) Brands Sent Scathing Emails (00:28:32) Why Jackie Took A Break (00:29:55) Shopify Ad (00:30:56) Parasocial Boundaries Online (00:34:13) The Craziest Jackie Rumours (00:35:19) The Queen Of Blocking (00:38:47) Handling Online Backlash (00:40:36) How Brands Should Apologise (00:42:46) Building FORVR Mood (00:46:13) Creator To Founder (00:47:33) Luxury Without Guilt (00:50:07) Jackie’s Money Mindset (00:52:38) Why $1B Isn’t The Goal (00:53:46) Self-Funding FORVR Mood (00:55:36) Pipedrive Ad(00:56:34) PIQUE Ad(00:57:32) Why Jackie Named NDA(01:00:45) Should NDAs Scare You?(01:02:10) What Jackie Keeps Private(01:04:01) Business With Her Husband(01:07:44) Date A First Born(01:09:23) No Laptops At Dinner(01:11:04) Money Talks In Marriage(01:12:53) Talking Money With Partners(01:13:22) Rapid Fire Begins(01:13:28) Last Credit Card Purchase(01:13:37) Jackie’s Most Expensive Purchase(01:13:54) Jackie’s Credit Card Choice(01:14:07) Beauty Or Home Content?(01:14:24) Best Beauty Product Under $30(01:15:12) Fragrance, Candles Or Lifestyle?(01:15:29) Beauty Trends Jackie Hates(01:15:49) Jackie’s Best Beauty Era(01:16:03) Instagram, YouTube Or TikTok?(01:16:35) Jackie’s HSR Love Note(01:17:06) This Season Of Life ⸻ Sponsors Shopify - http://Shopify.com/HSR Pipedrive - http://pipedrive.com/HSR Pique - https://piquelife.com/hsr for 10% off ⸻ Hot Smart Rich: Your Business & Culture Gossip For ambitious women wanting to own the room, gain power, and build wealth. Subscribe to the Hot Smart Rich newsletter: https://hotsmartrich.com/subscribe Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hotsmartrich/ Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hotsmartrich Maggie Sellers Reum: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maggiesellersreum/ Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@maggiesellersreum LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sellersmaggie/ Locker: https://www.wantlocker.com/users/maggiesellers ShopMy: https://shopmy.us/maggiesellers Amazon Storefront: https://www.amazon.com/shop/maggiesellers Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

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• 0:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

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• 1:04Speaker 01

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• 1:34Speaker 02

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• 2:03Speaker 03

  Girl, the way they blew through what we hoped would be six months' worth of inventory in like four hours?

• 2:12Speaker 03

  I was actually kinda scared. I uploaded my first ever YouTube video in 2009. One of the biggest things was making sure that people like me are seen no matter what space that I move in.

• 2:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That was one of the most eloquent answers I've had.

• 2:24Speaker 03

  Jackie, as a child, always loved fashion, but my parents said, "Actually, you're going to be a pharmacist."

• 2:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How did you find your way to then being in the Army?

• 2:32Speaker 03

  I know, girl. It's a mess. I'm not even athletic. God forbid you show up to work in a lash.

• 2:36Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Are there secret rules of success to do well in a masculine environment when you are just a naturally feminine woman?

• 2:44Speaker 03

  It can be annoying, but you can use it to work a room.

• 2:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Can you talk a little bit about that?

• 2:49Speaker 03

  There's still a lot of brands who do not cater to people with darker skin, but I think about the 17-year-old girl who's gonna be deeply, deeply impacted by that. I would much rather make them feel seen than like a CEO who can invite me on their yacht.

• 3:02Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What is the craziest rumor you've heard about yourself?

• 3:04Speaker 03

  Oh, my God. There's so many.

• 3:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You have self-identified as the queen of blocking. Have you ever felt like you were gonna be canceled?

• 3:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it.

• 3:28Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Jackie Asamoah?

• 3:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 3:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Are you ready to get hot, smart, rich?

• 3:31Speaker 03

  I'm so ready.

• 3:32Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I feel like you came prepared with the fit. Can we quickly just talk about how you got dressed this morning?

• 3:37Speaker 03

  Actually, I had to get dressed the night before because I'm always late. So I've become that girl who has to pull the outfit the night before. Yes.

• 3:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Hock.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's really like the first day of school all over again. Yes. And I actually didn't even realize it was gonna work out because this is my first time wearing this top. I got it from the sample sale.

• 3:53Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Wait, what brand?

• 3:54Speaker 03

  Elia.

• 3:54Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 3:55Speaker 03

  An Elia sample sale.

• 3:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 3:57Speaker 03

  Yes. So I literally ripped off the tags this morning, but I pulled it aside last night and I was like, "I know I want to wear this. Let me just see how I like it with the pants." Got dressed this morning and I was like, "Ooh, it's doing exactly what I needed to do."

• 4:08Maggie Sellers Reum?

  For someone that's listening to this, they just clicked in, they don't know who you are, which would be shocking, especially if you're watching on YouTube. What would you tell them that we're gonna talk about today that might surprise them?

• 4:17Speaker 03

  I cannot do everything, nor do I want to. I don't want to be looked at as somebody who can do it all. I think by way of what we do, we're often pedestalized by people. We're like admired, we're revered, and those are all good things. But I think sometimes, especially for Black women, sometimes it can be to our detriment. So we end up taking on more than we should professionally, personally.

• 4:41Speaker 03

  Sometimes financially, like knowing, okay, listen, I can't do it all. Whether that's in business, whether that's family related. But the things that I can do, I'm exceptional at and I'm just gonna stay in my lane and stay there.

• 4:54Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Girl, that was one of the most eloquent answers I've had. I was like, this is gonna be such an incredible conversation. So I think you have inspired so many people in different ways. We're gonna get into all of it, but it was very interesting because today I got my makeup done. I had to for the queen to be here.

• 5:08Speaker 03

  It's gorgeous.

• 5:09Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And my makeup artist was saying, shout out Shawty, she listens to every single episode. She was like, Jackie is the reason I do not leave my house in sweatpants. And that was her New Year's resolution.

• 5:20Speaker 03

  Wait, hers?

• 5:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Her New Year's resolution was that she would not leave the house in sweatpants.

• 5:24Speaker 03

  Did she explain why?

• 5:26Maggie Sellers Reum?

  No, and so I wanted to ask you.

• 5:27Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 5:28Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Why is that?

• 5:29Speaker 03

  So this was something that I had made content about last year. And it was purely not based on me judging other people. I was only expressing for myself. I basically told my audience that like, I don't want my default getting around from point A to point B. And even being at home, I don't want to wear sweats anymore. Like, I'm over it. And I don't wanna wear Lululemons actives either. Like, that's, that's not the stuff that I wanna wear when I'm relaxing. And I think the reason for me is because like, I'm a gym girl. And so my gym wardrobe is almost as big as my regular wardrobe. But when I'm in the gym, I want it to look like I went to the gym. And then when I'm not in the gym, I don't want it to look like I'm not in the gym. I don't know, a part of it is kinda like a stay ready so you don't have to get ready type of thing.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  And it doesn't mean you have to be wearing a Lila, it doesn't mean you have to be wearing like, Matthew Blasey Chanel suit down. But, you know, like having casual clothes that can get me around, that aren't necessarily slouchy, baggy, sweaty, I don't know. I, I, I just wanted my day to day to look a little bit more put together. And so I have like silk separates that I like to wear. And honestly, the truth is, they do look like pajamas. But it's probably better than, you know, like an activewear suit. At least for me, it's comfortable, something I can move around in. It looks like an outfit, I can throw a heel on it. You know, like, I just... Unfortunately, I'm in a, I work in a very superficial job. So yeah, I have to be a little vain. I have to be a little, you know what I mean?

• 6:58Speaker 03

  Like, this world does not let you get caught slipping, especially for someone who's on camera 24/7. And it's not that I owe people that, but it's more for me. Like, I genuinely feel better when I look a little bit better, you know?

• 7:13Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I relate to everything that you're saying, and I don't think that you should apologize for that.

• 7:17Speaker 03

  Oh, I'm not apologizing.

• 7:18Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 03

  I like that kind of stuff, but that's how I like to inwardly express myself. It's absolutely not something that I impose on other people. Because sometimes people also try to make me like the poster child of like respectability politics and being polished everywhere you go. And I'm like, I don't subscribe to that. I'm just talking about me personally.

• 7:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I love that. One of the most fascinating things about doing research on you was that you were in the Army.

• 7:45Speaker 03

  I was.

• 7:46Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So, take me back, pre-the Army, to childhood Jackie. Were you always that way? Did you always lean into your femininity? Did you always like being put together? Like, who was Jackie as a child?

• 7:59Speaker 03

  Jackie as a child always loved fashion. So, I thought, as early as like 11, I just knew I was gonna go to Fidham and study fashion design and become a fashion designer. My mom was a seamstress, so like, some of that rubbed off on me from her. And I loved fashion. I wouldn't call myself put together. We didn't have a lot of money growing up, but I loved, and I always loved fragrance too. Those were my two things. I couldn't really wear makeup. So I was like, okay, well, I can express myself through clothing, and I can smell good. And that was the few things that we could afford to splurge on. And one day, 16-year-old Jackie got the sit-down talk from my parents. The, so, you know, what are you gonna do with your life?

• 8:42Speaker 03

  And I was just like, you guys know I'm going to fashion school. And they were like, actually, you're going to go to school and be a pharmacist, right? And I was just like... I guess, sure. What? So, my dad's Nigerian and they're very academically driven. So, girl, they didn't even, they weren't even asking me, literally, they were like telling me, yeah, like, just kidding, you're not. And I was just like, okay, so I'm going to be a pharmacist then.

• 9:12Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So, you went to go to school to be a pharmacist?

• 9:15Speaker 03

  No, I dropped out.

• 9:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 9:17Speaker 03

  Eventually.

• 9:18Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How did you find your way to then being in the army?

• 9:20Speaker 03

  I know, girl. It's a mess. So, basically, it's like year two, I'm in college. I went to college here in California, Cal State San Bernardino. In the hood. That San Bernardino's crazy. And it was like my second year, the second year that I was in college, my parents split up. They got a divorce. So, while they were distracted, I was like, well,

• 9:42Speaker 03

  now's probably the appropriate time to drop out, because I was like failing all my classes. So then, this guy I was dating at the time had just joined the year before. I was like venting to him about like life, like I was going through it. And he was like, why don't you just join the army? And looking back now, it's like, just join the army, like as if that's like buying a bag or something. He said it so casually, but I don't even think, I don't even think he was being serious. I think he was just saying, I don't know, I think he was just like not really deep in it. So then, I got off the phone with him and like, I kind of thought about it and I was just like, well, like, dang, like he gets to like travel and he has like a steady source of income, like, it's not really something I want to do. I definitely didn't come from a military family, like at all.

• 10:26Speaker 03

  So, I didn't really even know what that looked like. Like, I didn't know what that, I was like, I don't want to be yelled at. I'm not even athletic. Like, I was like, so confused, but at the end of the day, like, girl, I needed a job. So, I was just like, you know what, maybe I will join the army, but I was like, but maybe I can join the reserves, I can kind of get my feet wet. So, there's like active duty in reserves, there's like National Guard. The difference is basically like part-time and full-time. So, because I was in the reserves, you basically only work like two to three days out of the month, instead of working every day like active duty servicemen was due.

• 11:04Speaker 03

  So, that's what I did and it was just a complete 180 of like what I was used to, but, girl, I need a job. I needed a job and a place to live.

• 11:15Maggie Sellers Reum?

  In my notes, you were paid $200 to $300 a month while you were in the Army.

• 11:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, something like that. Damn, you guys did some research.

• 11:25Maggie Sellers Reum?

  We did.

• 11:25Speaker 03

  It was like 300. Yeah, girl, it was like gas money.

• 11:28Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So what motivated you to do that versus doing something like hustling at a retail store? Or maybe working at a restaurant, trying to like make, I would say probably significantly more money than $300 a month?

• 11:40Speaker 03

  Well, I was doing both.

• 11:42Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 11:42Speaker 03

  So I was like, property of the US Army on that one weekend a month. And then throughout the remainder of the month, I was still attempting going to school. I was still working whatever retail job or food service job. Like, I still had another job as well. But that was like where my, some of my benefits came from. And it was like the steadiest source of income, I guess you could say.

• 12:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  A lot of women listening to this are going to be able to relate to being in very masculine environments. Are there secret rules of success to be able to do well in a masculine environment? When you are just a naturally feminine woman?

• 12:23Speaker 03

  I could better answer this question now that I'm like almost 40. But like when I was in the military, like I was, this is like almost 15, 10, 15 years ago. So I don't think I was like tuned in. Like, I was like a glam girl, but I wasn't as in tune with my femininity as much as I am now. And I probably would have a better answer to that question or a better strategy now. But when I was young, I would just show up to work in my uniform, wear makeup, getting dogged out. They're so ju, they're so, the military is very archaic. They're so, and it's like, go fix me a sandwich, like that vibe. Like, you could just tell some of those men do not even want to talk to you.

• 13:06Speaker 03

  And God forbid, you're like above them professionally. It's even worse. But. They were just like, this, the sidebar remarks, they always have something to say. God forbid you show up to work in a lash. Like, they were very judgmental. But I feel like now, I feel like Jackie now would have locked in and used that to my advantage. Because I feel like in so many different industries, when you're the only, yeah, it can be annoying. But you can kind of like use it to work a room. Like, you're more stand out, if you're more noticeable. It's an opportunity to ask for more. It doesn't mean y'all was gonna get it, because obviously there's gender pay gaps that are still very real. But I feel like now, I would have been working the hell out of it.

• 13:49Speaker 03

  But then I was very miserable. It was hard, because it's like, and I was also very, I wore my emotions on my sleeve and I was easy to react when I was younger. Whereas now, I may hear something, but not react. And kind of like revisit it, like, you know, you hear, you hear something or someone says something or does something, you pocket it and use it to your advantage later on. That's something that I would do now, but I was not, I was just not that. I wasn't that like locked in when I was younger. That's femininity is really truly something I didn't have the privilege of really owning when I was younger. Because I was basically like a third parent in my family dynamic.

• 14:30Speaker 03

  So I didn't really learn how to like, say, yes, I would love some help with that. Oh, no, no, no, you know, or like, like I was always doing things on my own. Because I was always like brought up to like not rely on people or to be 10 steps ahead of everyone else. But now, now that, especially now that I'm married, like, oh, I have no problem letting someone else pick it up or carry or handle. And yeah, I would have, I would have definitely, I'm curious to know how different I would be in the military now versus when I joined, but yeah, it's, I'm very different now. What was the moment that got you to decide to leave? The time just came to an end. So all service members commit eight years minimum.

• 15:14Speaker 03

  And then because I was a reservist, my contract was six. So I was going to cosmetology school at Sassoon. And then when it ended, I started to see the social media stuff become a bit more lucrative for me. So I was like, you know what? I think I need to give myself a chance to really pursue it. And I'm not going to be able to do that if I'm strapped here. And if I'm strapped here and if I'm still trying to get a job. And if I'm still trying to pursue other side quests. So I was like, I'm not gonna renew. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna reenlist. And so I didn't.

• 15:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And you put all of your time and resourcing into building your YouTube channel?

• 15:52Speaker 03

  After, yeah, right after I left, yeah, I was just like, I'm not even making money yet, but I have to like try. I have to attempt and I have to try. So it was around that time that I was like, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this broke, we're gonna do this with question marks. But I just had to do it. I just had to bet on myself.

• 16:10Maggie Sellers Reum?

  One of the most fascinating parts of your story that I loved was that you didn't upload your first YouTube video until 2009. But your first viral video wasn't until 2014 or 2015.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What kept you going for that six or seven year period? When you haven't had that viral success?

• 16:29Speaker 03

  I don't know, girl, probably a little delulu. I, you know what, honestly, I think I was just like enjoying it. Like, I think I was just here for a good time. But I wasn't really putting much thought into, because it was so early in social media's existence. I had no idea this would be able to be a job for me. I had no idea. I wish I had, I would like to say, like, yeah, it could be like way further if I had like locked in earlier. But like, I don't know, like, is that really the point? Like, you're meant to discover things when you're meant to discover things. Maybe I would have been. Not as serious if I started making money when I was younger. Like, I don't know. I don't know if I would have trusted that Jackie. I don't know. That might be a little scary.

• 17:11Speaker 03

  So I constantly try to tell myself, don't question God's timing. Because like you meant to, you know, yeah, it took you almost half a decade to lock in and finally start making livable wages. But it happened for a reason. But honestly, the simple answer, like, I was literally just like not taking it serious and just enjoying it, just building community, which was actually my favorite part. The community came first and they stayed. And then when the money came, they pretty much were like not going in. They were like a package deal. So that was also nice. Actually, that's probably the way the common creator works now is, yeah, you can go into it knowing you make money. But like, I didn't have the hindsight of knowing I was gonna make money doing it.

• 17:53Speaker 03

  So I think some people feel like there's a different element of trust baked into that. It's like, oh, she was here before she knew this was gonna be a job. So I think that's kind of, that's kind of cool, you know? Like, that's kind of admirable. Not that you shouldn't be motivated by money. I'm definitely not one of those women who's like, you should do it for the. No, we live in a capitalist society, honey. Like, you have to make money. This is a job. It is a job. Equipment ain't cheap, all these lights. So it's okay to be motivated by money. But, you know, my story was just a little different. So I was having fun. I was just not, I was honestly not taking it serious at all.

• 18:24Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You started really making videos for an audience and a community that wasn't being spoken to. I'm interested in your take on how you've evolved your storytelling from that first video in 2009 and talking to that community to how you position a common enemy today, where the beauty industry has evolved so much to be a bit more inclusive. Can you talk a little bit about that?

• 18:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I actually kind of feel like that journey was very fluid. Like, it sort of shifts throughout the years, but the underlying goal is relatively the same. So when I first got on YouTube. Which I was not interested in whatsoever, by the way. I did not like being on camera. I was, I was working as a makeup artist. And makeup artists are kind of like not really used to being seen. Well, they are now. Like we have Mario, we have Vanessa. The girls are like outside, but you know, the era that I come from, you were kind of like, your work was seen, but you were not really seen. So I just wasn't really interested. But I definitely did feel like I would be more incentivized with the way that I wore makeup.

• 19:31Speaker 03

  I didn't see a lot of that on YouTube at the time. So another reason why, like outside of like the having fun part and like building community. One of the biggest things that got me on the platform was the fact that I was just like, okay, well, I'm gonna take these looks and I'm gonna take these trends and I'm gonna show you how you do it on dark skin. Cause I got so sick and tired of like going to makeup counters and then tell, they would literally like grab product out of my hand and be like, no, not for your complexion. Like it was, the early 2000s was a mess. I know we love nostalgia, but the early 2000s was a literal mess. They would literally snatch stuff from my hand like, girl, that ain't for you. And there were times where I would walk up to a counter and I would see them like pulling out the dark foundations, like duh, like from behind the gondola as soon as I walked in. So it's like, so you weren't even gonna like offer it until I walked in? It's nuts.

• 20:17Speaker 03

  Like it was not even worthy of being on display. That's wild. So yeah, the industry has changed a lot. And so I started by basically centering those exact conversations. And so those experiences, like they're not as common as they used to be. They're still prevalent. Unfortunately, they're still prevalent. There's still a lot of brands who do not cater to people with darker skin. And you know what? A part of me, now that so much has changed, a part of me is like, you know what? If I'm not for you, then you ain't for me. So maybe like 15 years ago, if a brand wasn't as diverse, like I would have specifically called that out. Whereas over the years, I started also talking about, okay, well, the problems keep happening. Who are you hiring?

• 21:02Speaker 03

  Who, you know, how does your brand behind the scenes also reflect the products you're selling? Cause like, yeah, making money is great. Everybody's motivated by business, but are you hiring in an equitable fashion? You know what I mean? Like, are you giving these opportunities to people who look like me behind the scenes too? So that's also how conversations around the beauty industry as a whole would shift over the years. And then now, literally 17 years later.

• 21:30Speaker 03

  It's like, we can't keep, I mean, I don't want to keep having the same conversations because for that 10 years, I did a lot. Like, when I tell you, if a brand sent me a product, they would be on like pins and needles, like shaking scared of what I was gonna say in a review. And it's not that I don't think that work is important, it 1,000% is, but I don't feel like I need to keep talking about the same things over and over again. And I also have a brand myself. So in a way, like, I'm giving you free consult by doing that, too. I would much rather focus on brands that are already servicing people who look like me. And I want to continue having conversations about how people who not just look like me,

• 22:13Speaker 03

  but who are often overlooked in general, are not being represented in general by brands. So, and like in both positive and negative ways. Like, like when I started doing lifestyle content, and when me and my husband launched Forvr Mood, I really wanted like the point of view of, because Black people are obsessed with fragrance, especially Africans. We love fragrance. It's very culturally tied. But I didn't really feel like in the fragrance world, there was a lot of representation there either. So, and like luxury spaces, a lot of times, Black women aren't included. A lot of times, African ateliers are not included. Like, those are the conversations. So it's like, still the same why?

• 22:58Speaker 03

  Like, still making sure that people like me are seen, no matter what space that I move in.

• 23:05Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Looking back at your life, has there ever been an era where you've been a people pleaser?

• 23:09Speaker 03

  Oh, God, yeah. Like, the way that I am now is like night and day from how I was in my early twenties. Night and day.

• 23:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Well, and the reason I ask that is because I think a lot of people see bad behavior, and they excuse it, and they either are just trying to protect their reputation, or they're afraid of the repercussions. And I think what I'm trying to learn from you, because I actually need to learn this, is...

• 23:32Maggie Sellers Reum?

  When you see bad behavior and you're about to post something publicly about that behavior, because it is warranted and it does need to be talked about. And who's to say that these brands that have embraced inclusivity would even be doing that if people like you hadn't talked about the bad behavior publicly? How did you learn to not be a people pleaser anymore and be able to post a video and call it a brand as big as a tart or a two face back in the day? When like, all you had was a YouTube channel, like you didn't have your supportive husband. You didn't have the brand that you had built. You didn't have even the community that you have today.

• 24:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:11Speaker 03

  It's like do it scared, do it scared. If you feel, no, this is not okay. This is not acceptable. And this was before, I don't want to say it was profitable to be diverse, but in a way, yes, it was. But it was when it was still very much so you could get blackballed. And I was making that content and I was doing that work. But at the end of the day, like I had to be able to sleep at night, knowing that I have an audience of people who saw me before brands did. And I would much rather make them feel seen than like a CEO who can invite me on their yacht. Like, that's cool, but like, so many other people have yachts booed. And they do it by seeing people that you're ignoring.

• 24:56Speaker 03

  So it just, there's levels to it, though. I'm not going to say that I came right out the gate swinging. No, I definitely like, like as I built, as I got more followers, as I built up more trust, I, I think I got more emboldened. It wasn't like day one, I was just like ripping, you know what I mean? Like, I would make notes and comments and I'd be like, oh, that's not a shade that works for me. Or I'm not happy with that. I was vocal, but over the years, as I felt, as I got more emboldened, then I got more comfortable, like as I started to feel like my position was safer. And also, is your position ever really safe? I don't know, like, I don't know the answer to that. You know, or at least I didn't know the answer to that 10 years ago, because I didn't know where the industry was going at that point. But

• 25:41Speaker 03

  I just had to do what I feel was right, but I was always professional. I was always professional. So it wasn't like I would say, this is trash. This is da, da, da, da. I would sit down and I would say, this is what I don't like. This is what you could have done better. And at the end of the day, if they like it, great. If they don't, then, I mean, I, I have to do my, this is my job. You know what I mean? This is my job. So I just led with professionalism and with honesty.

• 26:08Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Was there ever a post that you regretted?

• 26:11Speaker 03

  I can't say there is one at all in the single, nope, I said what I said. Even when people have tried to get me blackballed, even when I've gotten some not so nice letters to my management and my agent. No, you did it. So why are you mad that I'm talking about it? No, I don't regret anything at all. Not even looking at a single, no. There isn't a single one that I'm like, oh. Like, I don't even know if there's anything I could have done better because I've always been professional. Like, I don't feel that way at all. No.

• 26:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Is there a brand that you think has evolved, like truly, genuinely from taking criticism? And is genuine in their approach to diversity today?

• 26:49Speaker 03

  Actually, yeah. I have a really good example of this one. And it's a, it's a brand founded I'm now friends with. So Huda Beauty, I love Huda, but I ain't gonna lie. I used to be, I used to be kind of on her neck.

• 27:05Speaker 03

  I was not here for a lot of Huda's antics in the infancy of her brand. Like, well, actually, so I followed Huda before she launched Huda Beauty. I was like a day one because I used to live in the Middle East. So I was kind of like boots on the ground. Like, I knew about Huda before the girls in the US really knew about Huda.

• 27:25Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Hmm.

• 27:25Speaker 03

  And I was a fan then, loved her work. She was huge. She already had an, she had an empire in like 2011. Like, she was big. So I was already, I was already a fan. I was always following her. But there were some things I wasn't really like, really fond of. Like, she didn't really, in my opinion, in my professional opinion. So there was this thing, like, Instagram used to have these repost pages and they wouldn't really post their own work. They would post like other people's glam work in their pictures and stuff. So that's kind of like how Huda Beauty's page got to where it was now. And like, I really didn't think they, in the early stages, did a good job at representing darker skinned black women very positively on the page, and I was very vocal about that.

• 28:07Speaker 03

  And then when she started the, right around the time she started the brand, it was just lashes. And then they moved into the complexion category. And everybody knew that if a brand launched a complexion category, they pretty much came to me to get the thumbs up or the thumbs down. So when she launched complexion, I reviewed it, I featured it, I talked about it. And it was very clear to me that, at least from what I saw, it was very clear to me that with the start of that product, they were trying to change the tides of how they previously, I think, I think they want, they made a conscious effort to include everyone. So I thought that was really admirable. And then over the years, as she continued to like, come out with more product launches,

• 28:51Speaker 03

  it was like, oh, this isn't just like a one-off, this isn't just like a gimmick. Like, she really pulls up, she really represents a wide range of people when she launches stuff. So, yeah, I was just kind of like quietly peeping and like, I really admire that about her because I've been critical of her and they've never sent me a scathing email, they've never threatened me, they've never like retaliated, never. And now they like, I, I recently went with them to Paris last year. Like, I have a great working relationship with Mona, also the founder of Kali. Like, we're really good friends, actually. They're really sweet, very supportive. But it was, it was a, I guess, natural and organic friendship that originally came from me kind of being like, not here for it.

• 29:34Speaker 03

  I was just like, listen, the girls are saying this. And when I started noticing things, that was when I started talking about it. But like, I really do think she's done an excellent job at like, not getting, one, she doesn't get online and be defensive and clap back at people when they were saying these things about her, which I think is good. And she just quietly did the work to change the trajectory of the brand and like represent and see people. I admire that. I really do.

• 29:59Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You just said that they didn't send you scathing emails or threats. Have you gotten that from other brands?

• 30:07Speaker 03

  Girl, sometimes they would send me emails when I didn't even say anything. Like if my followers were dragging them on my behalf, they would treat me like I was the ringleader of it. And I'm like, I don't, I don't know if you think there's like a secret group chat somewhere. Like I don't, why, why am I responsible for what they're saying? Like what? Why am I cashing strays? Yes, there's been several. Yes, several. 1,000%.

• 30:35Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Is this what led you to take a break from social media for a full year?

• 30:39Speaker 03

  No, I think it was probably COVID that kind of like spearheaded. Cause it felt like a weird time post makeup tutorials. Nobody was going nowhere. So it was like, what am I even, what's the point? Why am I doing a wear test? Wearing it where? Like, I don't, like this is, this is awkward. It just felt a little like, oh, this is weird. And you know, that was around the time when I realized like, I've also never taken a break from YouTube. So that was when I was like, you know what? I, I experienced what I didn't realize at the time, but I was definitely experiencing burnout, like a creative burnout of like constantly on an upload schedule. I mean, I was uploading like twice a week for basically.

• 31:23Speaker 03

  So you know, you said my first viral video was 2014. So once I got that, I was like, I'm never putting the camera down. And I was basically uploading like two to three times a week up until 2020 without stopping, which is nuts. No producer, mind you, no producer, just an editor. So I was the talent. I was the script writer. Sometimes my videos were scripted. Most times they weren't. I was also the producer, technically, the videographer and the makeup artist for like six years. No break, no time off, no nothing.

• 31:58Maggie Sellers Reum?

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• 32:42Maggie Sellers Reum?

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• 34:28Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What did taking that break teach you about parasocial relationships that we have today?

• 34:33Speaker 03

  Oh, gosh.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  That is a very jarring topic for me, but you know what? I also have like a unique, I feel like I have like a unique

• 34:45Speaker 03

  point of view on parasocial relationships because for the most part, in the time that I was doing my makeup content for, at that point, well over a decade, I really only talked about makeup. So there was nothing else, like my relationship wasn't the content. My personal life definitely wasn't the content. You never saw my house. You really only saw me from like the collarbone up. So it was really easy to maintain. And yet I still somehow built a, honestly, I feel like it's kind of a slay though, because like I built a community of people who were like locked in,

• 35:28Speaker 03

  but I didn't have to like lose myself in getting that. And that to me was like a flex that I feel like a lot of people really struggle with because they, you know, like we live in the era of like oversharing and like if that's someone else's vibe, listen, if you like it, I love it. But it was never gonna work for me. It was never gonna work for me. But I'm, I'm so blessed that I was still able to build the community that I have without having to do that, you know what I mean? And so 2021, 2020 and 2021 was right around the time I started doing more lifestyle content. So it was a little uncomfortable for me when people, but I went into it knowing like, okay, if you start posting this, you have to expect some level of, you know, like

• 36:13Speaker 03

  interest in a different way that people haven't seen you. So that I understood. But to answer your question, the parasocial part, as it started to get more intense, I was like, I really struggled with that because I was just like, wait, like I only, I only give this. So like, why, why are you over here? Like, it was really an adjustment for me for sure, 1,000%. And honestly, I'm gonna lie, something that I'm still kind of like, whoo, not too much. Not too much because I give, and I feel like I give a good, well-rounded, personable.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  Type of content. So it's like, well, if this is what I'm giving, you can't demand more of me. That's, that's what I'm gonna give, you know? And I feel like I give a lot. So, thinking before you speak, that's also another tip. One of my pet peeves, when I'm watching a podcast or when I'm watching a public speech, is hearing um, um, um, every other sentence. So when I'm speaking, instead of saying um as like a filler word, I stop and think. But then the byproduct of that is that I can give a more thoughtful answer. So that's one of the things that I have really kind of mastered over, over the years, is just pausing, taking a quick beat. Think about what I want to say, think about how I want to answer it. No one's gonna judge you for being silent, like you're just thinking, you know what I mean? You're just processing, internalizing.

• 37:31Speaker 03

  And then if I do that, I'm less likely to overshare when I'm responding to something or ramble or spill. Well, I do be rambling, I do talk, girl. I don't know if you can notice, but like, I'm less likely to just blur out anything without thinking, if that makes sense. What is the craziest rumor you've heard about yourself? Oh my God. There's so many. That I bought my own engagement ring, which is nuts, because what the hell? What do I look? Please.

• 38:00Speaker 03

  I don't know what strain you gotta be smoking to even think that, but absolutely not. You know what's also interesting? It's, it's stuff that like, most times ain't even about me. Like it'll involve like my sisters or like my husband. Like it's, it's never really something that reflects me. It's weird. Or like me and my husband, we had like a long engagement. And over the years, there were these like floating rumors that he refused to marry me. And I was just like, based on what? Like, I'm confused. That, that one kind of threw me, because it's like, it's one thing if a rumor snowballs from something else that's like a truth, but like... Most times they come from literal thin air and I'd be so confused. I'm my housewife, I'm not on Bravo, I'm not on Peacock.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  So I'd just be so confused. Where's some of these? I'm just like, I'm, I'm confused. Who are the sources? I don't, I don't know.

• 38:52Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Well, one of the things I found so interesting about the research call that my team did with you was that you have self identified as the queen of blocking.

• 38:58Speaker 03

  Oh, absolutely.

• 38:59Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And you have the most amount of users blocked as possible on your TikTok.

• 39:05Speaker 03

  1,000%.

• 39:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So how, when did that become a strategy for you to start blocking people based on the parasocial relationships going from wanting makeup tutorials to now having crazy rumors being made up about yourself?

• 39:21Speaker 03

  I just, okay, I just feel like I turn into one of these figures that people expected a lot out of at one point. Like way more than they would expect from other people. And so people would just talk to me all kinds of crazy. And crazy in a way that was like, this is not even like, I would get comments that were not even like constructive. You know what I mean? Like it's like people, you know, people, you're online, like you're on TikTok. People online can be mean for sport, like for fun, or just to get you to react, or just to rile you up, or just to say, someone so responded to me. Like, I started to realize like, oh, this is not even like coming from a genuine constructive. Like you just want attention.

• 40:04Speaker 03

  And I think once you identify that, it becomes easier to, one, not take it personal. But also, two, I actually block people because I'm doing them a favor. Because if I respond, I'm gonna cuss you out. I'm gonna cuss out your bloodline. I'm gonna, I'm gonna call your university. Like, I'm actually doing you a favor by not reacting the way that I really could. Cause I might slaughter you. Like, I might really hurt your feelings. Now, I don't have a plan, Maggie. Like, I can't, like, I have too much to lose. I have too much to lose. And user 943881000infinity will never be worth it. So I would just rather spare myself and spare the other person. Cause really, like I said, I'm doing them a favor. I just, I just block them. And I, it's like, I don't really need the engagement that bad. Some creators, they'll leave the comments because they know that it get,

• 40:49Speaker 03

  I don't need the engagement that bad. I love what I do and I want to continue to enjoy what I do. So I just. Black and move on.

• 40:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I had someone, Collins Key, I'll call him out, he's a huge YouTuber. He is in YPO with my husband. And he said to me when I was starting to go online and starting to get these comments, he goes, "Your social media is your storefront. And if someone came up to your physical storefront and put a sign on the door that said, "Your products suck," you would take the storefront sign down.

• 41:15Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 41:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Because that is the user experience of someone going to your store. So don't even feel bad about blocking people and deleting comments because your social media is your storefront. And I have never thought about it.

• 41:27Speaker 03

  That's so good.

• 41:28Maggie Sellers Reum?

  In the same way.

• 41:29Speaker 03

  That's actually so good. But you know what also that reminds me is that it's not only your storefront, but again, I'm really big on community. So think about, like, someone writes a comment and maybe it's racially fueled, maybe it's really disgusting, maybe they're talking about my hair, maybe it's anti-black, maybe it's a really problematic comment. I think about the 17-year-old girl who's gonna see that, or a young boy, or 25-year-old, or 30-year-old who might be deeply, deeply impacted by those comments, or by those, you know, by that, those negative comments as well. So, yeah, I actually like that analogy because it's not just for me as the owner of the

• 42:11Speaker 03

  storefront, but like, the patrons, you know, the people, the community. I don't want them to see that garbage either, so take it down. So I love that analogy, that's perfect.

• 42:20Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Have you ever felt like you were gonna be canceled?

• 42:23Speaker 03

  Oh, not like, not really, no. I mean, like, I've been dragged, it's like every other month now, but no, not really, no.

• 42:34Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Can you take me to the moment where you see yourself getting dragged or getting backlash? How do you feel?

• 42:39Speaker 03

  You know, it's only weird when, like, I don't see it coming, when it comes out of thin air. So, the most bizarre one was after our wedding. There were people saying that I blocked them for congratulating me after my wedding, which was not true. I didn't post about my wedding. So I, I think what they were trying to insinuate is that I didn't want people to talk about it or something, I don't know, it was very strange. But basically, I got married, and the moment we got engaged, me and Dennis were like, "Hey, like..." I'm not gonna be your 2024 bride. Like, I'm not posting none of this shit. Like, I said right out the gate, like, I'm not publicly documenting my wedding.

• 43:21Speaker 03

  And Dennis is not really an influencer, so he's very much on the same page. And so I just changed my name one day on socials. And so naturally, they realized, like, oh, my God, she got married. And people were really excited. It was really cute. Someone wrote a crazy comment on one of my TikToks. I deleted that person and blocked them. That person made a video and basically lied and said, I don't remember what the comment was, but they basically said, oh, I just congratulated her and she blocked me. So then, you know, the internet loves, they love taking something and running with it. So then naturally, I was getting trolled. Congratulations. It was like, OK, guys, we get it. But like, I'm not blocking people for congratulating me. So that was bizarre.

• 44:04Speaker 03

  But I just didn't feel the need to respond to it. So I just kind of was like, all right, well.

• 44:09Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Having been online for almost two decades now, would you recommend if a brand is going through controversy or pushback or backlash, they give a statement or they kind of just like, keep posting, put your head down? Obviously, if there's legalities involved, different situation. But if it's more just consumer feedback and community feedback, what is your recommendation?

• 44:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, as a brand, I do think you need to, I do think you need to acknowledge it, especially if something's done that hurts a community or offends a particular community. I do think there is so much power in acknowledging it, apologizing for it if it's necessary and moving on. And you know what? You gotta be willing to admit, this apology is not gonna make people get off your neck. But sometimes, that's not the point. You still should do it, just to say you did it and move on and allow people to feel the hurt that they are experiencing, depending on how bad the offense is. Because sometimes, I've seen some brands do some crazy things.

• 45:15Speaker 03

  And I've been like shocked at the lack of like intentionality they put behind responding to it. And it really does cause a severe lack of trust as a consumer. Because me and you, like even as founders, we're still consumers as well. So it's like, yeah, not even as a founder, like as a consumer, I wouldn't patronize your business because what on earth is this? This is just, if you don't put out a statement, or if you respond to backlash in a really lackluster, unmeaningful way, to me, that signals this is not a brand I can trust to not do this again. I can give my money to anybody else. There's so many brands now. I just saw your post this week on the podcast page

• 45:58Speaker 03

  that women-owned businesses are like 40% of the US economy right now. That's so impressive. I love that for me, and I love that for you because now, to me, it's like, well, if you mess up, I could just go get my money to someone else, especially another woman.

• 46:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  We vote with our dollars.

• 46:17Speaker 03

  1,000%.

• 46:19Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You are obviously now a founder, which even, I love the way you just said it. You're like, girl, I'm a founder. I have way too much to lose. Talk to me about your community and what they wanted. Because my assumption, if I was an investor and you would come to me pre-your brand, and you were like, I want to launch a brand, my first thought would go to like an inclusive makeup complexion brand, where it's like you've built this amazing reputation in as a thought leader. And I'm interested in the community and Forvr Mood, and how you got to starting specifically first with candles. Now, obviously, you've evolved quite a bit. But talk to me about the decision that went through in your head of like, I have this community, I want to service them,

• 47:01Maggie Sellers Reum?

  and I'm going to go this direction and not what maybe people are expecting of me.

• 47:06Speaker 03

  Yes, it was a really pinnacle moment for me professionally because you're right. When we first started teasing that I was launching a brand, I didn't come right out and say what it was, but naturally, everybody's go-to response or expectation was makeup, because that was what I was known for. But the thing is, is I honestly, genuinely thought Forvr Mood was going to be like a passion project of mine. I had always, always wanted to have a fragrance brand. Years before we had launched it, we had already been talking to manufacturers, we've been talking to fragrance houses. We've been talking to incubators, I've been telling my team. I genuinely thought it was going to be a side quest.

• 47:48Speaker 03

  I never thought it was going to be the main gig. Like, I thought it was going to be something that I did, just because I genuinely, genuinely love fragrance. And then, I was thinking makeup line, but it just wasn't... There was other things behind the scenes that were working, I'll put it that way, but... Yeah, girl, when I launched it, I was just like thinking really small, and me and my co-founder husband Denis, we thought we had like six months' worth of inventory, so we honestly really went into it thinking very modestly, like, thinking like we'll crawl before we walk, we'll get this amount of product, girl.

• 48:29Speaker 03

  The way they blew through what we hoped would be six months' worth of inventory

• 48:37Speaker 03

  in like four hours?

• 48:41Speaker 03

  20,000 candle slippers. I was like,

• 48:46Speaker 03

  "Oh, this isn't a passion project." I was actually kinda scared. I was like, "Oh my god, like, we don't have nearly all of in place what we, what we thought we were gonna need." Like, I, we, girl, we had to just completely restructure everything. Like, we had to just like jump full in at that point, and it's literally only been on running upwards since then. But I genuinely, in my heart of hearts, thought it was gonna be a fun little

• 49:18Speaker 03

  I thought it was gonna be like a fun little side gig. Like, I don't, I no longer believe that side gigs, when you start a brand, you have to really think like, this could also be a Fortune 500 company, boo. Like, you gotta think bigger. But at the time, I was like, "It's gonna be fun, it's gonna be cute."

• 49:38Speaker 03

  Changed a lot since then. But yeah, I was thinking much more small.

• 49:44Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You've said that shifting away from being known as a creator first to being known as a brand founder is actually a very difficult change in people's perception of you. What do you think it takes for people to really think of you as a founder first and not a creator?

• 50:01Speaker 03

  You know what, I think consistency. And also, I've definitely, like, I'm really struggling with YouTube right now. I know my manager's gonna kill me when she sees this. But I've had to pull back in some areas because I don't have a choice, you know what I mean? And I think that signals to people, oh, priorities are shifting. And showing up in different spaces, so like, I do more public speaking now. I take on more opportunities like this more now too, because I love being able to talk about behind the curtain. Like, I feel like people love that kind of stuff, you know? They get to see like, oh, okay, like, if she can do it, if you can do it, I can do it too. But like, you have to be consistent through that. You can't, you know, one month be just the YouTuber and then the net, you know what I mean?

• 50:46Speaker 03

  Like, you really have to follow through and continue to show the audience, the community, the team that this is the new area you're moving into. But I think it also takes time. Like, it's not something that you can just snap your fingers and accomplish, but it does take time.

• 51:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I'm so interested because this is actually a challenge I face a lot myself for someone who's like, worked really hard and can reap some of the benefits of it. You have talked very openly about how you had no money growing up. Like, you were working in the army for $200, $300 a month, and now you've been able to work your ass off to be able to afford a lifestyle that, like, you are so proud of, yet you make products at an accessible price point for the masses. How do you balance that relationship with your community of, like, living a luxurious aspirational life and then making products and selling products to people that are very accessible?

• 51:40Speaker 03

  Forvr Mood is what I would consider, like, Masteesh, so it's right in the middle. It's not mass, it's not, like, full-blown, like, highest price tier, but it's right in the middle. When we created the brand, I didn't want to compromise fragrance, quality, like, I wanted to... I wanted the brand to have a specific visual and aesthetic. It is technically considered a luxury brand, but it's like accessible. Like you said, accessible luxury. And that was important because I was like, well, I'm ready to bring it. Like my point of view on fragrance, I knew that it was going to require a bit of an investment on our part, but then also on the customer. So I wanted to keep that top of line, top of priority.

• 52:24Speaker 03

  And to answer your question about like, how do I manage and balance the difference between Jackie, you know, 15, 20 years ago versus Jackie now? Well, I mean, we love a self-aware queen. Like I am broke and I can't pretend to be broke. Cause this is not, this is not from Shan Boo. Like I can't like, I don't know, like I can't, you know what I mean? Like I, I can't stand, like everybody says they love authenticity, right? But like, what does that actually look like? So why would I come online pretending to be like, oh my God, I'm just scraping like, I'm not, I'm not. But I'm also, I'm also not going to shove it in your face, but I'm, I'm going to show up authentically as I am. And I, it's, it's okay. Like I don't feel guilt about building the life that I have now because I for damn sure am not going back to broke.

• 53:09Speaker 03

  So there's that. And I don't think women should feel guilt about building something. But there, there's so much judgment online, ooh, with women. Ooh, if you start making a little bit of money, oh my God, there's so much judgment. But then it's sad because, because it's like, well, if you've ever experienced poverty, you don't want to see other people experience that ever.

• 53:37Speaker 03

  Even if it makes you feel better, I don't want to see anybody else ever experience what I went through ever, even if I was still in it. So I think it's just acknowledging this is who I am, where I'm, where I am now. And you, you'd actually be surprised, there's a community of people who like content like mine. They see it as aspirational. So I feel like as long as it's not exploiting anyone, as long as it's not hurting people's feelings. I feel like anything is fair game. You know, as long as it's, as long as it's not demeaning people, then yeah, like I love doing luxury unboxings. I'm not gonna do them every time I buy something luxury, but there is an audience of people who really do like that. And they know my life has changed and they're extremely supportive of it. And I also give back a lot.

• 54:22Speaker 03

  So I love seeing my community pouring back in. That's really, really important to me because so many people have done that for me, too.

• 54:29Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How do you think about money today?

• 54:31Speaker 03

  Love it.

• 54:33Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That was fast.

• 54:34Speaker 03

  Love.

• 54:36Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What is your attachment style to money?

• 54:38Speaker 03

  It's not my motivator, but it is.

• 54:44Speaker 03

  I mean, it's definitely required to maintain the quality of life that I want. Yeah, like, I'm gonna be honest, like, I'm Nigerian. I was not destined for the broke life I was born into. And literally, all my middle names, all my Yoruba, that's my, my dad's tribe, all of them translate to wealth, every single one of them. And I have like four of them. I have a very long name. But I love money. I don't think you should be apologetic about liking money. I don't, this answer probably varies depending on who you ask. I don't think you should be motivated by money because then you won't have standards and then you'll do anything for it.

• 55:25Speaker 03

  But I'm not shy about asking what I'm worth or paying someone else to do that, my manager and agents. Yeah, it's extremely important to the quality of life that I want. And I think it's extremely important to just getting by, having resources, having health insurance, not having an overdrafted account, being able to pay rent. Like, I used to have to juggle pay my wifi so I can upload YouTube videos, because if I upload YouTube videos, then I could get AdSense money and have more money or rent. I would've paid wifi.

• 55:56Speaker 03

  Because wifi is how I pay the rent. Rent's gonna be late, you know? I have to make those decisions now, thank God. But I worked really, really hard for that. So, yeah, money is, is, is pretty important. And I also, you know, I, I feel like it's also important to say like, there's a certain quality of money that I'm also not willing to aspire to. Like, I personally don't have aspirations to build Forever Moon into a billion dollar company. And I say all the time, I have much lower standards. I feel like 100 billion is great. Like, that's nothing to sneeze at. Like, 100 million, I'd be good. A billion, I don't, I don't know if I'm willing to do what that would require. Because I know it would take a lot.

• 56:41Speaker 03

  And I know what billion dollar companies look like. And I don't, I think my husband would, but like, I don't, I can't work that hard.

• 56:50Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I have to say, from an investor perspective lens, having the aspiration to not build a billion dollar consumer brand is actually where you will find success. Because we are kind of over the era where when there was those direct to consumer darlings and we were building these billion dollar brands and funneling VC money into them, they just like, never could get there. And it was all this smoke and mirrors of like, acquiring customers with this crazy VC money. And then you're left holding the bag at the end of the day because the industry shifted so much. With you and money as it relates to the company, you guys made a very conscious decision to not raise money from other people, other investors, and to self-finance things yourself. How do you think about that? And would, do you think your decision will ever change?

• 57:34Speaker 03

  Oh, it's, it's absolutely changed. We've talked to investors. Nothing has just ever materialized. It's extremely hard for black-led, black-founded brands, but also women-founded brands as well. I'm not gonna lie, I have it very lucky because he's the co-founder. So he's almost like the face of in a lot of ways.

• 57:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Your husband.

• 57:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm, I'm like, I'm technically like the face, but... It's still very like manly, like there's just so much like mansplaining and like it's still, you know, you know, this industry, it's still so male dominated that it is actually extremely and, and the great thing is that his background is also finance. So thank God, he alleviates a lot of stress on my end. He's the person who's translating for me and like explaining what this means. And this means like the word VC was very new to me before we started for a mood. Now I understand like what things like equity look like and like what all of these terms mean, but like having him to help navigate that with me has been so helpful. And yeah, we absolutely are open to investment. We just haven't found something

• 58:41Speaker 03

  that makes sense because I know that we both know, we don't just want someone who will write a check. We want someone that will kind of roll up their sleeves with us. Maybe not every day, but like, I, you know, like I would want some strategy. I would love some expertise. I would want some mentorship and I know he desires that too. Cause you can give us the money and then we think we're using it the way that it, we can maximize or get the most out of it. But what if we're not? What if we make mistakes? I would love the guidance. That's all.

• 59:09Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Can we take a moment to talk about the least glamorous, but most important part of building a business? Your systems. I see so many founders and CEOs in my ecosystem who are building incredible businesses, but their backend is just chaotic to the point where deals will literally go cold because no one is keeping track of where things are at. So if that's your business, you really ought to think about switching to our sponsor, PipeDrive. A simple and smart CRM for small and medium sized businesses. That's easy to use because it's all centered around a visual pipeline. So you can see every deal, what stage it's in, and what needs to happen next. Angels, if your ambition is big, like

• 59:50Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I know it is, your systems need to match. Head to pipedrive.com slash HSR to get started with a 30 day free trial. No credit card or payment needed. A hundred thousand companies are already using it. So why not join them? That's pipedrive.com slash HSR.

• 1:00:07Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Is there anything more destructive than a hangover? Mine are so bad that I can barely drink anymore unless I'm celebrating a big moment. But I still love a ritual that signals the end of the day. So thank goodness I came across Vesper by our sponsor, Peak. Angels, you already know how much I love Peak's wellness products, like their matcha. Every single one combines science and powerful botanicals to help shift your mood. So when they sent me Vesper, their adaptogenic aperitif, I was very intrigued. Vesper is made with ingredients that help you relax and sleep better, but also ingredients that help you stay more present in conversations. As far as I'm concerned, this is the new standard for relaxation,

• 1:00:50Maggie Sellers Reum?

  especially after a chaotic, busy day when I just want to unwind and chill. If you'd like to give it a try or get 10% off Peak for life, head to peaklife.com slash HSR. Cheers. One of the things that's so interesting is when you go-

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• 1:02:09Speaker 06

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• 1:02:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Oh, from creator to entrepreneur, you're forced to be into this world of acronyms and things you don't understand. And that's why I love so much. One of the names of your fragrance is called NDA. First, can you explain what an NDA is and why it was important to you to call something that women are going to be consuming in a business term that might make them feel less intimidated when they hear something like that?

• 1:03:04Speaker 03

  Hmm. So a non-disclosure agreement is basically a paper that you sign when you're going into business with someone, or I have people sign NDAs when they come to my house. You know, it depends on what the transaction is. It's basically just saying like a clean agreement that says you're being trusted with trusted information. Don't disclose it to anyone else. This stays between you and I. There's so many different terms and or conditions you can add to an NDA, but it's basically just like a written agreement that says, shh, keep your mouth shut. Basically, in layman's terms, Forvr Mood, the whole idea with every product is we want every product to like kind of tell a story because

• 1:03:46Speaker 03

  what I found in my experience in like loving fragrance and being a fragrance consumer is that like everybody interprets vanilla differently. Everybody could interpret citrus differently. But if I describe to you the vibe, or if I paint the picture in a name, that I find sticks more with fragrance, way more than me just telling you what the notes are. So another example I'll give you is we have a scent that's called You Remind Me. It's actually one that I gave you. And it's a clean second skin. So it literally, it's a musk. So it smells less like a literal person and more like, like someone's body

• 1:04:28Speaker 03

  chemistry, if that makes sense. And musk can shift depending on who's wearing it. It's also the scent that I got married in. So it's a very like clean and

• 1:04:38Speaker 03

  I wanted people to be reminded of something or someone. So that's why I called it You Remind Me. So with NDA, the notes are like spiced rum, tobacco. Um, I think there's also.

• 1:04:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Vanilla bean.

• 1:04:50Speaker 03

  Vanilla, there's vanilla bean. And I think there's also jasmine. It's like, and um, tobacco flower. So it's like smoky and it's also creamy. It's just, it's masculine and it's feminine. It just smells like a scent that you would smell on somebody who is kind of polarizing. Like someone who would make you sign an NDA just for a lunch date. Like the vibe.

• 1:05:13Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Or to come over to their house.

• 1:05:15Speaker 03

  Or to come to their house. The vibe and the energy was supposed to kind of give like big Chanel shades, like wolf, like wolf or tights and a blazer. You know, wardrobe, the wardrobe NYC girl, the ally girl, like just someone who just doesn't necessarily want to be for everybody. Someone who would make you sign an NDA for the most miniscule stuff, like bossy, maybe a little closed off, maybe a little unapproachable. Those are some of the words that I thought of when I would smell that scent. And that was why I gave it an NDA.

• 1:05:48Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I love that so much. And it's kind of why we do the show is to like democratize this access and this information. And I have been in so many meetings with people where they've been like, here's the NDA. For someone that's hearing about an NDA for the first time, should they be scared?

• 1:06:06Speaker 03

  No, are people scared of NDAs?

• 1:06:08Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yes.

• 1:06:09Speaker 03

  Wait, really? Why?

• 1:06:10Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yes. Well, I think it immediately, and like, this is another thing we talk about a lot on the show is power dynamics, right? And I think when you're with, especially when you're entering into a new world and these people are using acronyms and they're using all these big things, you're kind of like immediately in this place of, you remember what it's like when you did your first few deals for YouTube? You do it for free because you want the exposure and you do it for product. And then you get to a certain point where you're like, this is my rate. I don't do something without that. It takes a lot of time. It takes that exposure. And so I think the first time you probably see an NDA, you're in that position of like, is this person a lot higher in their power, in their status? And you almost, not that you'll ignore your morals or your values, but you're almost do things that you might not otherwise do when like you have points on the board, right?

• 1:06:55Speaker 03

  I see, yeah.

• 1:06:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  See what I'm saying?

• 1:06:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So one of the things that like I'm so fascinated with, with your community, with your fans. And the boundaries that you have with them is like, what do you show them about building the brand and the business? And then what is just something that's like just for you and your internal team?

• 1:07:13Speaker 03

  Oh, I mean, a lot is just for me and the internal team. I love talking about the process of like a scent story, like how many times a scent has evolved until from inception or like ideation to like launch. Like, I like to share creative stories and things like that and creative evolution behind the scenes type of stuff. But I don't necessarily make my team a forefront on socials because it's like, I don't want them to feel required or obligated to do that. So those things are kind of off limits. We don't really talk about like our, like, how much revenue we've accumulated. In the first year, we somewhat

• 1:07:58Speaker 03

  did like Shopify, they give you like a 100,000 orders plaque. I think they have like different milestones. So, well, I guess you can't even really calculate that either because we have multiple SKUs, but we shared that. So like, obviously, 100,000 times our lowest selling product, you can roughly guesstimate, you know? And that was like years ago. So since then, we've, obviously, we've done a lot more. But we definitely don't like to talk about the revenue part because also sometimes people think, well, if your brand, and I'm just throwing this number out there, this is not for us. But if your brand made a revenue of like 50 million, they think I have 50 million in my Wells Fargo bank account. No,

• 1:08:41Speaker 03

  it doesn't work that way. So I try to like, separate the two because especially as I'm a creator, sometimes people don't have the ability to separate Forvr Mood from Jackie. So I keep the hard numbers aspect very, very separate because otherwise then people get a little too excited and they, you know, yeah, no, I keep, I keep that separate.

• 1:09:04Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You talked a little bit about keeping your teammates behind the scenes.

• 1:09:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:07Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You obviously started this business with your husband and I'm very interested because you have navigated a divorce. Experiencing a relationship firsthand that can fall apart, what gave you the confidence to start a business with your now husband?

• 1:09:20Speaker 03

  Oh, it was really hard. But I also think some of the comfort started when we first started dating and then

• 1:09:31Speaker 03

  This was like, I had a manager then, if I remember correctly, I did have a manager. Actually, I think he helped negotiate my contract with my manager. He just started suggesting little things like, oh, who reads your contracts? And I don't even think I had anybody reading my contracts. And so he would ask me questions and of course I was doing what old Jackie would do. I got it, being like, oh, this is not, because mind you, I had to explain to him what a YouTuber was when we first started dating. He had no clue what this job was. He was fully in Morgan Stanley's world. He had no, and he's also not from here, he's British. So it was even more of a learning curve for him. He didn't know who Jaclyn Hill was, Michelle Font, like he didn't know none of them people.

• 1:10:13Speaker 03

  So I had to kind of like explain to him, you know, like what those things were, what I do. Like he still kind of didn't get it, but kind of did. But like, he understood, oh, contracts, like, do you want me to help? And I was very like, especially because I've been divorced. So I've already told my brain, it is not, it is not safe to share spaces. Men in business are very, very, very separate. But then eventually it was like, well, I do need help and like, you know, it doesn't hurt to get a second opinion. And I started to realize like, he's phenomenal at reading contracts, by the way. And he's also dyslexic. I don't know if I mentioned that, but yeah, he, I, I think it's allowed him to be even more in tune with things because he has to be extra careful. So I started realizing like, wow, he has a lot of value.

• 1:10:58Speaker 03

  So that process started over some years before Forvr Mood came about. And then when I decided, or actually when he decided we were going to start Forvr Mood, he was like, we should start now. We should launch it in 2020. Mind you, the world was closed. And I was like, what in the hell are you thinking? Like, what are you talking about? Why would we launch a brand in the middle of a global pandemic? And he was the one that wrote a plan, roughly estimated whatever, whatever it costs. And that was the first time it felt doable. And so he took the initiative, so I just led with trust. I mean, I don't, I don't work at Morgan Stanley. He did. So like, I can't really like argue with that.

• 1:11:43Speaker 03

  So he's helped me over the years, allowed me to see things as more possible. So I guess that's what made me more comfortable over time. Dennis is also a Pisces. So sometimes he, he's more passionate and ironically, I'm more logic. So sometimes Dennis sees potential in things and I'm just like, I need proof. But when he started, proof, proof, proof, I was like, oh, you ate that? You ate? I was just like, damn. Yeah. I mean, like, I like seeing results. So he continuously pulls up.

• 1:12:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  He delivered.

• 1:12:22Speaker 03

  1,000% way. But also the community delivered because like I said, we, you know, we, we started really modestly, which I think is a good thing because we didn't think we were going to be like fully disrupting. Like we just were like, we just want to do something fun. We want to do something we have been talking about doing for years anyway. But he 1,000% delivered and he did really well to pivot. When we realized that the business was bigger than we initially planned, yes, oh, 1,000%.

• 1:12:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What's your horoscope?

• 1:12:49Speaker 03

  Leo.

• 1:12:50Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So do Leos and Pisces get along?

• 1:12:53Speaker 03

  I don't know. I don't know if it's a, it's funny because like when I tell people that they're always like, ooh, good luck. And I'm like, is, yeah, I guess that makes a lot of sense. So I'm, his, his, he's also the first born in his family. Which by the way, if you're a first born eldest daughter of immigrants in business and you're looking for a man, you need to find yourself another first born son.

• 1:13:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Why?

• 1:13:17Speaker 03

  Oh my God, because they're doers. Don't you dare date an only son or the youngest, no shade.

• 1:13:24Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Why?

• 1:13:26Speaker 03

  They're the babies. They're so, they're the, the, the shining balls of their family lineage. Nobody lets them own anything. I'm generalizing, I know. But in my experience, the firstborns tend to be really great leaders. They tend to be a little bit more assertive. Dennis is very assertive. But I. It's kind of bossy. Like, I was kind of like, dang, like, I'm a little rough around the edges. Like, I think when we first started dating, I was like, dang, like, I really do be kind of like running shit. Like, this is crazy. And he's very sweet, and he's very like, oh, give people chances. And I'm like, for what? There he showed you. No. Cut him off. Get him banned. I don't care. Bye.

• 1:14:12Speaker 03

  I literally, I'm very like, I'm a little bit more like, black and white. But he's taught me to be like, okay, life is not black and white. You can take your time.

• 1:14:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It's gray.

• 1:14:23Speaker 03

  We balance each other out in a really good way.

• 1:14:26Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You guys obviously work together now.

• 1:14:28Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:14:29Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How do you separate church and state?

• 1:14:32Speaker 03

  It's easier for me than it is him. Dennis will take his laptop to the jacuzzi. That's how out of control he is. And I'm literally like, give me that damn laptop. Like, when he's in bed, and he'll just like roll over and be like, babes, I want to show you this ring. And I'm like, go to bed. I'm not doing that right now. Once it's me time, I don't want to talk about approvals. I don't want to talk about briefs. I don't want to talk about contracts. I don't want to talk about the new hire. We could talk about that tomorrow at 9 a.m. Right now, it's my time. And of course, he has a standing desk. People who have standing desks are nuts. Like, they're just a different, they're just a different breed of workaholic.

• 1:15:15Speaker 03

  I don't know what it is about them damn standing desks. I have to pry him away from that desk. He's nuts.

• 1:15:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  When you see a girl on TikTok, like, doing her day in the life, and she has a standing desk with a treadmill?

• 1:15:26Speaker 03

  Oh, she don't play. And I have a walking pad in my office, too, so I get it. I don't have the standing desk, but I do have a, I am one to take Zoom calls on the walking pad, yes. I absolutely do. But I know when to shut it off. I also have, like, a no laptop rule in, like, any other place. Because we also work from home, so it's another set of challenges, which, you know, you probably can relate to. I don't want the laptop at the kitchen table. That's for eating. That's for dining. That's for drinking. That's for breaking bread. Like, I want every space in our home to be used as it's designated. But if we get too comfortable, and if we have the laptops in the theater, the laptops in the breakfast milk, then I... Nothing will ever feel like home, you know what I mean?

• 1:16:07Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How do you guys set up your life to have family meetings or boundaries as it relates to wealth and building wealth and like those types of conversations, especially when you come from a family where like it wasn't really talked about and it was very scarce?

• 1:16:23Speaker 03

  It was honestly a learning curve for me because my relationship to money when I was younger, I think surrounded a lot of, or it involved a lot of like shame and guilt and a lot of embarrassment about not knowing how to manage it, not knowing how to grow it, not knowing how to maintain it and so on and so forth. But Dennis is the exact opposite. So whenever he would like, like, hey babe, I want to discuss this, I would have like a physical gut discomfort reaction, like I was in trouble about something. And it took me like years to get over that because every, it literally felt like he was calling me

• 1:17:03Speaker 03

  into the principal's office to like, I like, I thought he was gonna scold me about something. I thought, I'm, you know, I thought he was gonna give me a lecture on my spending or I, something, you know what I mean? And also like, it's, it's like the equivalent of like, you know, when you get texts from someone, they're like, I gotta talk to you about something. And it's like that, that why of like, oh my God, the anxiety. That's what I felt like whenever he would want to have family meetings about money and, and so on and so forth. So it's taken me some time to like, get over that. But the great thing that I've learned and experienced with him is that he never makes me feel uncomfortable about it. Like, I can ask him, if I don't know what something means, I can ask him and he won't look at

• 1:17:48Speaker 03

  me like, why don't you know what that means? And I really appreciate that because that was the exact opposite of my upbringing. I was not taught about money at all.

• 1:17:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Someone that's listening to this that gets that gut feeling when their partner wants to talk about money, or they're even in a relationship where they've never broached the topic. Mm-hmm. What's your number one piece of advice for them?

• 1:18:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think you need to be open to listening and I think you need to be willing to learn. If you don't know what something means, don't just assume they got it. Get in there, educate yourself, take control, and don't be shy or squash about it. Like, you know, you're a big girl. Like, if he can do it, so can you.

• 1:18:25Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I have a lot of rapid fire to go through with you, so we're not done yet.

• 1:18:28Speaker 03

  Okay, let's do it.

• 1:18:29Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Can I ask you some?

• 1:18:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, let's do it. I love rapid fire.

• 1:18:32Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, Jackie, what is the last possible thing you put on your credit card?

• 1:18:35Speaker 03

  Well, actually, technically, the last thing was Postmates.

• 1:18:37Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, what'd you get?

• 1:18:38Speaker 03

  A breakfast burrito.

• 1:18:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What is the last most expensive thing you put on your credit card?

• 1:18:43Speaker 03

  Ooh, I just got that Oura ring sleeve from that brand. Have you heard of this jeweler, Logan Hollowell?

• 1:18:50Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yes.

• 1:18:51Speaker 03

  Oh, it's so good. I haven't got it yet, but that was the last most expensive thing that I bought.

• 1:18:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, perfect.

• 1:18:57Speaker 03

  I bought it like three days ago.

• 1:18:58Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Perfect. Okay, this is a new question that's gonna become a consistent question. You inspired me. What is your credit card?

• 1:19:05Speaker 03

  Oh, an Air Max.

• 1:19:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, and you like it?

• 1:19:08Speaker 03

  I love it, yeah.

• 1:19:09Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay. You can only choose one for the rest of your life, beauty or home content?

• 1:19:14Speaker 03

  I can't be ugly. But I can't be, damn. Beauty, it's easier.

• 1:19:25Maggie Sellers Reum?

  There we go.

• 1:19:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, beauty.

• 1:19:27Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What is the best beauty product on the market currently that is under $30?

• 1:19:31Speaker 03

  Under $30? You had me at the best, but you, ooh, damn. The skincare account?

• 1:19:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:41Speaker 03

  I really like that Dove Shower Oil they just came out with. That's tea.

• 1:19:46Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 1:19:47Speaker 03

  Do you have dry skin?

• 1:19:48Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yes, and I didn't want to, I didn't mention it because we didn't get to it, but I also have a hyperhidrosis.

• 1:19:54Speaker 03

  Oh, my God!

• 1:19:55Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So I actually used to get Botox, like, underneath my armpits to stop sweating. Mine was so bad.

• 1:19:59Speaker 03

  Did it, like, permanently stop?

• 1:20:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Now I go once a year. I have to, I used to have to go every quarter.

• 1:20:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a whole struggle. Your whole wardrobe is dictated by it. It's a lot.

• 1:20:10Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:11Speaker 03

  But I was gonna say, I like it because it's really hydrating. It's great for dry skin.

• 1:20:14Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, perfect. You can only pick one for the rest of your life. Both to consume and to make. Candles.

• 1:20:20Speaker 03

  I knew you were gonna say this.

• 1:20:21Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Fragrance. Lifestyle accessories.

• 1:20:27Speaker 03

  It's gotta be a perfume. It has to be fragrance.

• 1:20:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It's like.

• 1:20:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:32Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What beauty trend do you secretly hate right now?

• 1:20:36Speaker 03

  I don't really think I hate any of them right now.

• 1:20:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 1:20:39Speaker 03

  I can't think of any... This is not 2016, so the girls are not doing the stuff they was doing then. I don't, I don't really feel like there's any wild ones right now.

• 1:20:48Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 1:20:48Speaker 03

  That I know, that I know of. That I know of.

• 1:20:51Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay. You can only live in one beauty era for the rest of your life.

• 1:20:57Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, the current one. My makeup is the best. Like, I'm the best at makeup I've ever been right now. So I'm going right now.

• 1:21:03Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, it looks absolutely incredible.

• 1:21:05Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:21:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You can only use one platform for the rest of your life. YouTube, Instagram, TikTok.

• 1:21:11Speaker 03

  Bye TikTok. TikTok is Twitter 2.0. They, they are lucky to have me, put it that way. I love TikTok, but it is like getting out of control. I'm gonna say, mm, let's say Instagram. I'm a millennial, sorry, I love Instagram. It's a control freak's dream. It's very superficial. I love it there.

• 1:21:34Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I love Instagram.

• 1:21:35Speaker 03

  I'll be, I'll be fake. I don't care. I don't care.

• 1:21:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I do these love notes to myself. It's almost like an affirmation to get away the toxic traits in my head. If you could only say one HSR love note to yourself for the rest of your life, what would it be?

• 1:21:48Speaker 03

  I would say if I do nothing else from this day forward, I've already done enough.

• 1:21:55Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Love that.

• 1:21:56Speaker 03

  Because I kind of ate that. And I'm happy exactly with what I've built. I still want to do more, but I, I feel like I've lived such a full life that I'm happy with my portion now.

• 1:22:06Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Wow. Okay, last one. If you had to title this season of your life, what would it be called?

• 1:22:14Speaker 03

  I was gonna say something really vulgar.

• 1:22:15Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Say it.

• 1:22:21Speaker 03

  I was gonna say, immediately in my head, say fuck you.

• 1:22:26Speaker 03

  Well, that's kind of mean. Let's be nice. Okay. I'll be nice. My era, my current era.

• 1:22:34Speaker 03

  Because I feel like it. I'm like, because I feel like it. Because I feel like it. That's it.

• 1:22:39Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I think that's the next name of your perfume.

• 1:22:41Speaker 03

  Because I feel like it. If I could fit on a bottle, I would absolutely put that on a bottle.

• 1:22:46Maggie Sellers Reum?

  If you're starting a business, there are certain things that are so fun to think about. Y'all know I love a mood board, so everything that relates to the creative, the name, the brand, the website, the vision board, but then there are the things that make you pause and ask, am I even doing this correctly? Or do I even want to be doing this? Like forming your business, getting the right documents, keeping your personal information private. This is where our sponsor, Northwest Registered Agent, is so helpful. They're a one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin spiral. They help you form an LLC or a corporation, act as your registered agent, and give you tools like a business address, operating agreement,

• 1:23:27Maggie Sellers Reum?

  website, phone number, professional email, and free guides. They also have real corporate guides who know your local laws. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree.

• 1:23:50Speaker 06

  Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces, so I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece, and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.

• 1:24:20Speaker 07

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:24:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Obsessed.

• 1:24:50Speaker 03

  But our next fragrance, the one that I'm wearing now, the one you said you liked, channels that same, that exact same energy.

• 1:24:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Obsessed.

• 1:24:56Speaker 03

  And you'll love the name of this one.

• 1:24:58Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Love. Jackie, where can people find you? And how can ASR help you right now?

• 1:25:04Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, that's so sweet. Well, you've already helped me by bringing me on, so thank you. Everybody can find me at Jackie I know on all platforms. TikTok, Instagram, of course, YouTube. I have two Instagram accounts. My other one is at Lavishly Jackie. That's all things home decor, lifestyle, florals, and all of the things. And at forevermood.com. F O R V R, there's no E's. Forevermood.com. At Sephora.

• 1:25:34Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Thank you so much for coming on.

• 1:25:36Speaker 03

  Thanks for having me.