Introducing How To Date: Am I ready to date?

Elizabeth and Mel look at one of the most important yet daunting questions: “Am I ready to date?” Whether you’re returning to the dating world after divorce, heartbreak, loss or simply wondering if it’s the right time to put yourself out there, this episode explores what it really means to be ‘date ready’. After you’ve listened, you can get all the resources and worksheets discussed at www.thepodclass.co.uk Mel and Elizabeth are on a mission to revolutionise the world of dating! We want to make it a safe, fun and rewarding experience for everyone. If you’d like to join us, we’ve put together our very own How To Date Good Dating Pledge, consisting of 10 simple ‘Dating Commandments’. Have a look and sign up for free now at www.thepodclass.co.uk Let’s make dating better - for all of us! If you don’t want to wait each week for new episodes join our wonderful community of subscribers where you can binge all episodes now, ad free, all at once. Follow the link to sign up: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/ A Daylight and Sony Music Entertainment Production. _______________________________________________________________________ Morrisons terms & conditions More Card T&C’s: https://www.morrisons.com/more/terms-and-conditions/ General T&C’s https://groceries.morrisons.com/content/terms-and-conditions?srsltid=AfmBOor2xSfFNVtu22I9z5plcQkO6kId8jZ3NSdAF4X4Mt8JQkhO_ylQ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Elizabeth Day?

  One of the things I hear a lot from listeners is how tiring it can be when your mind just doesn't settle. And I can only imagine this feels even heavier with intrusive thoughts. It's that quiet sense of being worn down by something you never asked for and never wanted, but just can't seem to switch off. If you struggle with this, I want to tell you about NoCD, because it's a resource that genuinely helps people. NoCD provides specialised treatment for OCD. And what I appreciate about their approach is how human it feels. You're matched with a licensed therapist trained in ERP therapy. That's Exposure and Response Prevention. And over time, you learn skills that help your OCD symptoms become manageable, so you can live more of the life you want to live.

• 0:45Elizabeth Day?

  If you're struggling with OCD or unrelenting intrusive thoughts, NoCD can help. Book a free 15-minute call to get started at learn.nocd.com/fail. One of the things we talk about a lot on How to Fail is how difficult it can be to take that first step, and starting a business is no exception. With Black Friday approaching, it's a great time to turn an idea into reality. Shopify makes launching an online store easier with ready-made themes and AI-powered tools, including Sidekick, its AI assistant, which helps you set up your shop and plan promotions without needing coding skills. Whether you're exploring a new venture or finally acting on an idea you've had for

• 1:29Elizabeth Day?

  years, Shopify gives you the tools and support to get started with confidence and make the most of the busy shopping season. If you're ready to launch your business before Black Friday, go to Shopify.co.uk/fail to start your free trial. That's Shopify.co.uk/fail. Go to Shopify.co.uk/fail today to hear your first

• 1:54Elizabeth Day?

  How to Date is proudly sponsored by Morrison's.

• 1:59Elizabeth Day?

  Welcome to How to Date, the pod class that teaches you what you need to know about navigating modern romance. I'm podcaster and author Elizabeth Day.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  And I'm Mel Schilling, relationship coach.

• 2:11Elizabeth Day?

  And every week, we aim to give you the skills you need to show up as yourself on the apps and in real life.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  From how to survive heartbreak, to building confidence and loving yourself first.

• 2:23Elizabeth Day?

  From managing clear communication to how to handle rejection.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  From ghosting to breadcrumbing, micro cheating to love bombing.

• 2:31Elizabeth Day?

  And why sometimes the most important person you can date is yourself. Love that. Join us for frank, expert advice, hilarious anecdotes, brilliant guests, and fail-safe practical exercises that will leave you feeling empowered to make the changes you need to meet the person that is worthy of you. Because both Mel and I met our husbands online, didn't we?

• 2:53Speaker 01

  We did.

• 2:54Elizabeth Day?

  So we do know what we're talking about.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  At least we hope we do. Right. Shall we get on with it then?

• 3:00Elizabeth Day?

  Let's explore How to Date.

• 3:06Elizabeth Day?

  Mel, I'm so excited.

• 3:10Elizabeth Day?

  We are here in the How to Date studio. This has been a long time coming, hasn't it?

• 3:15Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And I think from the moment we realised that we both met our husbands online, that was a moment for us.

• 3:22Elizabeth Day?

  It was a moment. So many of you listeners will know Mel from Married at First Sight, which is how I first got to know you. I always think that you give the most expert, insightful comments to the contestants on that show. And then I became low-key obsessed with you and got you on my podcast, How to Fail.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Which I love.

• 3:42Elizabeth Day?

  And you're right, we bonded over the fact that we did meet our husbands online slightly later in life. I mean, we're in the prime of life now, don't get me wrong.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  We're heading toward the prime, perhaps.

• 3:52Elizabeth Day?

  And I was really passionate about imparting some of what we learned to listeners, who I know so many of you are out there right now navigating the wilderness of dating. And it's a really tough spot to be in. And we both have first-hand experience of that. So how old were you, Mel, when you met your husband?

• 4:14Speaker 01

  Thirty-nine.

• 4:15Elizabeth Day?

  Okay.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  Almost forty. So I spent my entire 30s single and dating and not very well.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Made all the mistakes.

• 4:25Elizabeth Day?

  So you've not only got the professional expertise, but you also have the lived experience.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  I have the scars.

• 4:30Elizabeth Day?

  And like you, I met my husband when I was thirty nine, post divorce. The dating landscape had changed massively in the time that I'd been married. I'd never even been on a real date, I don't think, let alone been on an app. So the whole thing had gone through this transformation and I had to learn really quickly. So I suppose we want to start by saying there is hope out there, isn't there?

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Yes, at any age, you know, there seems to be this sense of doom, I think, that people face when they come out of a long marriage or relationship, or they're they're suddenly widowed. This idea of how on earth am I going to get back out there? It can seem so overwhelming, not just the technology, but all of the new rules and roles that have emerged in the dating space. But we are here to tell you, lovely listeners, that it doesn't have to be daunting. It can be a lot of fun and you can do it in a really empowered and conscious way.

• 5:24Elizabeth Day?

  Yes, I love that. New rules, new apps, a new vocabulary.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Oh, and we're still learning.

• 5:31Elizabeth Day?

  Bread crumbing?

• 5:31Speaker 01

  Right, seriously.

• 5:33Elizabeth Day?

  Caspary.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  I know.

• 5:34Elizabeth Day?

  But today we have a specific focus and it's an important question. And it's a question about how we know we are ready to date. And in order to tackle this question, we are going to divide this episode up into three. We are going to talk about the when, we're going to talk about the why, necessary questions to ask yourself, and we're going to talk about the what, what to do to ensure that you're ready to date. But let's start with the when, Mel. So you mentioned there coming out of a divorce or a long term relationship. And I think very often there's so much processing that you have to do as an individual on an

• 6:15Elizabeth Day?

  emotional level before you feel ready to be equipped to do anything, let alone date. What would be some guidance that you would give someone going through that?

• 6:25Speaker 01

  I do hear this one a lot because quite often well meaning friends will say things like, get back on the horse, you know, get back out there. All you need is, you know, a rebound fling and you'll be fine. Um, but that's not always the case. And I think a really sensible thing to do, once you find yourself suddenly single, is to invest in yourself, to date yourself really is your first step. And part of that, of course, is processing the hurt and the pain and everything that went on in that previous relationship, so that nothing's left unexamined. I think that's really important. But then there are some really important questions, I think, you need to ask

• 7:07Speaker 01

  yourself about your date readiness, which is a thing. Let's call it what it is. It's date readiness. That's what we're talking about here. And it happens on a number of levels in terms of the way you're thinking about dating and about yourself and about partners, the way you feel about it, and the things that you're actually doing or feeling ready to do.

• 7:28Elizabeth Day?

  Now, you mentioned the rebound there. And one of the things I was wondering is whether a rebound, it gets a lot of negative press, but whether sometimes it can be quite a good thing. So is a rebound always a bad idea?

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Not necessarily. And I think it's really important to have your dating goals clear when you're stepping into new experiences. So for example, if you've come out of that long term relationship, you might say, okay, for the short term, let's say for the next 12 months, I'm going to date in the most fun and frivolous way. I am not going to be looking for the one, I'm going to be looking for lots of ones, situationships, you know, lots of different experiences to sort of have a tasting plate of dates so that I can get a little bit of a

• 8:13Elizabeth Day?

  Date tapas.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. We're gonna do it the Spanish way. We'll have some date tapas and see what we like, what we don't like, and try things on for size. I think what's important there is there isn't confusion between what might be a light hearted encounter, getting it confused with the next big relationship. Because I think some people make the mistake of the first relationship experience having to be the one, having to be the next big thing. And it really doesn't. You can get so much out of a lighter. Relationship experience where you can learn so much about yourself.

• 8:51Elizabeth Day?

  What about though, if you are a woman of a certain age, as we both were, and there's the issue of children and biological clock and all of that stuff.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:02Elizabeth Day?

  Because I was very aware of that and I felt, well, I need to be ready to date now because I need to find someone in order to lock them in so that I can then have the family that I always thought I would have because time is running out.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  The pressure.

• 9:14Elizabeth Day?

  There was so much pressure and as regular listeners of How To Fail will know, that story had a different ending for me from the one that I anticipated. And it's one that I am fully at peace with now and that has so much fulfillment in it. But at the time, I was very aware of that time pressure. So how can we separate those two things? How do we know what is us and what is social conditioning?

• 9:41Speaker 01

  It's so tricky, isn't it? Because we have this biological imperative and it's not something that we can fight. And, you know, when I was starting my dating coaching practice, this is where I specialised, was with women in their late 30s to early 40s who were having this exact experience. Because I found it so interesting because even though I was 39 when I met my partner, I didn't have the ticking clock. So I became fascinated by it. And what I started to see in my clients was this incredible desperation, this urgency to basically, as soon as the, the, the music stops, grab the first person, you know, who's available. And it doesn't obviously always work because it's often very reactive response

• 10:26Speaker 01

  to someone who happens to show interest in you, rather than making that really conscious strategic choice about a partner.

• 10:33Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  So I think when you are in that position where your biology is telling you one thing and perhaps your brain is telling you something else, you need to be able to separate those out. But at the same time, deal with the reality. And part of that, I believe, is about being incredibly honest and upfront with potential partners. You know, not necessarily just sexual partners. If you just want to have fun, that's great, you know, they don't need to know your business. But if you are. Feeling like you're ready to meet your next partner. Don't shy away from that conversation because it's your most important values based decision.

• 11:09Elizabeth Day?

  I totally agree, and I think that there is a lot of rubbish spoken about. When is appropriate to bring certain subjects up? And actually, I felt when I was going through the dating process that that veered perilously close to playing games.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:25Elizabeth Day?

  And that actually it meant that I wasn't showing up as my authentic self, because this was something that was really important to me. And if someone was going to be scared off by the thing that was most important to me, then they weren't the person for me.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Exactly, and that's the most important point here. You know, you probably heard people say things like, oh, don't be honest about that, you'll scare the men away. Well, guess what? Scare the men away, because those are not the men you want to date.

• 11:50Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah, and scare the women away too, if they're not the right people.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Absolutely, absolutely. You know, I think there's a fear that, you know, we often have going into dating that if I show up as my real, authentic, raw self. I might put someone off. That's okay, because that's part of the process of screening people out. You're not just screening people in, you screen them out as well.

• 12:13Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  And I think when you arrive at that realisation, it's actually very empowering. Because you realise that you're going on these dates to assess them, it's not just them assessing you.

• 12:24Elizabeth Day?

  Sometimes I think the cleverest way of understanding if you're ready is to retrofit it.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 12:30Elizabeth Day?

  What are some things that show that you're not ready to date?

• 12:33Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, great question. And again, I hear this one a lot, because so often I meet people who are in, have delved into the dating process. And they weren't ready. And they're having disaster after disaster. Maybe they keep dating the same person in different clothing. Or maybe they're constantly going after commitment phobics and they can't figure out why. So retrofitting, going back a little bit and saying, okay, imagine you're about to start dating now. Here are some questions to ask yourself. I mean, one of them, I think, before we even enter into date readiness is. Have you resolved your previous relationship?

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Because, you know, of course, going into the next relationship with all that baggage, it's never going to go away, of course. That is part of who you are and it's actually quite beautiful, you know, because you've got lessons that you've taken from previous relationships that you're bringing in. But I'm talking about the rawness of the emotion. You know, can you talk about your previous relationship without being emotional? You know, do you tear up every time you mention his or her name? Or is there a little bit of emotional separation there where you can sort of say, well, that was a fully contained experience with a start, a middle and an end, and I'm now past that? Are you there yet? And if you are, that's a good sign that you can start thinking about date readiness.

• 14:00Elizabeth Day?

  I think that's so wise. And I think definitely one of the things that I struggled with was I still had a feeling of anger over past relationships that had gone awry in some way, and a feeling of being really let down, and a feeling of being emotionally cheated, if not physically cheated on. That sense that someone had promised me something but actually turned out not to be capable of delivering that. And I think taking that forwards into a new relationship can be incredibly damaging. And actually, what that does is it narrows the opportunity for that person to show up

• 14:43Elizabeth Day?

  as themselves, because you're already overlapping who they really are with fears from your past, that that someone is going to be annoyed with you because you've left a teaspoon on the counter. That you, those things can actually be very triggering, can't they?

• 15:00Speaker 01

  Yep. And on that behavioural level, you can be really driven by those unconscious feelings toward your previous partner. And it might come across as, for example, punishing your new partner when they haven't actually done anything wrong. You know, resentment can actually build up. As you say, you're anticipating things that they might do. They probably won't.

• 15:19Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  But it can be quite, it can become quite toxic.

• 15:22Elizabeth Day?

  We get a lot of questions on how to date about how to process heartbreak in order to be ready. Do you have any top tips, Mel?

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Firstly, don't do it alone. You know, I think there is a tendency to think, stiff upper lip, especially us Brits, right? The royal wee there.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  I should be able to muddle my way through this and get on with it on my own. But you certainly don't have to do it on your own. And I think, you know, everyone in your life has had some experience with heartbreak, whether it's through actual intimate relationships or family or even, you know, workplace breakups, best friend breakups, you know, we've all had experience with that. So being able to join together with other people, like minded people, and, you know, have a bit of a collective cry, you know, the debrief, the unpacking together, the validation and normalization that you get from sharing your experience is so, so important. Firstly, to not feel alone, but also to feel like you're not going a little bit mad, you know, that all the feelings you're having are actually quite normal.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  But I think it's probably worth noting here too, that if, you know, there is more going on for you than just a little bit of heartbreak, you know, not all relationships are created equal. And of course, not all people's level of resilience and capacity to bounce back is equal. If you are in a position where you're struggling, where, you know, you really feel like you cannot stop thinking about this relationship, you are constantly ruminating on it, you're feeling down, you're unable to perhaps focus on your work or other things. Those are signs that you probably need to speak to a psychologist. So let's just put that out there as, you know, something that's really important to note here.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  But I guess within that kind of normal range of, of heartbreak, definitely debriefing with friends. I think there's some really fun rituals that you can do as a way of letting go. You know, something that, that I, I know some people do is write down a thank you letter to their ex, thanking them for all the lessons, you know, it can be, it can be quite lighthearted. It might be quite heavy in, in certain parts, but a big thank you and then a thanks, but no thanks at the end and then burn it or screw it up and put it in the bin. You know, those sorts of rituals can be quite symbolic and can actually cut beneath, you know, some of the conscious thinking and actually go a little bit deeper,

• 17:51Speaker 01

  which can be a really, a really nice way to kind of move through some of that.

• 17:55Elizabeth Day?

  Yes. And if you wrote that letter whilst listening to Ariana Grande's Thank You Next.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  Brilliant.

• 18:02Elizabeth Day?

  That song got me through a lot of breakups, I tell you.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 18:07Elizabeth Day?

  What about some of the negative reasons that we feel compelled to date? So. Dating from a place of fear, fear of being left behind, fear that all of your contemporaries are finding their match, settling down. Can can fear be a good thing ever?

• 18:25Speaker 01

  Look, it it often leads to an anxious attachment style, you know, and I know we're going to talk about that more on on this

• 18:32Elizabeth Day?

  The flash of recognition on my face.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Absolutely, and that's coming from a place of fear, often fear of rejection or abandonment. And, you know, if you think about it logically, going into a relationship already expecting that person to reject you or to hurt you, of course, is going to lead to a whole trail of thinking, feeling and acting. You know, if we come back to those basics of cognitive behavioural therapy, which is really where I sort of grew up in my psychological life, it essentially says that what you think controls what you feel and what you feel controls what you do. So when you're thinking or your self-talk or that internal monologue is saying things

• 19:13Speaker 01

  like, she's going to reject me, he's going to hurt me, all men lie, all women cheat. You know, these are really common mantras that some people bring into new relationships. And of course, those thoughts lead to what kind of emotion would you imagine?

• 19:31Elizabeth Day?

  Uh, terror and anxiety.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  Fear and walking on eggshells and second guessing everything your partner's doing, perhaps feeling suspicious, building up jealousies because that insecurity is not being met. And then, of course, that flows through into the actions, you know, all of a sudden you're checking their phone or, you know, you're not trusting what's going on when they're out with their friends. So I think fear left unchecked is a real sign that you're not quite date ready.

• 20:05Elizabeth Day?

  Yes, and actually, that's such a good way of putting it because fear, it's not that you should ignore it, it's signalling that you need to tackle something. And that goes back to that idea, the Mel Schilling, brackets, TM, closed brackets, idea of dating yourself, which I think is super important. If I look at my own experience, I was in a series of long-term monogamous relationships from the age of nineteen to thirty-six, okay? I I sort of went back to back, partly because of that fear, that fear of being On my own, of being left behind in some way, of being less worthy because I wasn't with someone. But what that did is that it meant that I became someone who outsourced her sense of

• 20:50Elizabeth Day?

  self to the relationship that I was in. And I tried to understand what my partner wanted and then fit myself to that mould. And I had not taken the time to understand my own desires in so many ways. And I think that the only way that you can do that, if this is ringing any bells with you as you're listening, the only way that I could do that was actually to spend time on my own. And whether that is just taking yourself off to the cinema on your own, or allowing yourself to have a lie in one morning and reading a book in bed with a cup of tea. All of these things that seem like you're treading water, actually you're doing something that is integrally important.

• 21:35Elizabeth Day?

  You are understanding who you are on your own two feet. And I think that it's only then that you can really fully show up as yourself because you've got to know yourself.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And I think that's the foundation from which you can then develop what do I want in a partner? Because really, without doing that work, you really can't have a stable sense of what you want. It reminds me of a tree without roots. And it is quite literally blowing in the wind and just responding to swipes that you're getting on an app, you know, pings on a GPS. You're not actually stopping, grounding yourself, putting down those roots and thinking in a conscious and mindful way, what do I want? What is going to serve me? What is going to bring out my best in a relationship?

• 22:36Elizabeth Day?

  So we have dealt with the when and now we're moving on to the why. Questions to ask yourself to know whether you're ready to date. And as Mel just discussed there, building confidence and self-esteem is a really, really important part of that, as is the idea that we're not acting from a place of fear or loneliness or comparison. How do we know if we are emotionally available? It's the big question, isn't it? It's basically the fundamental question of life, Mel. In three words or less, how do we know?

• 23:11Speaker 01

  And the answer is, oh, the mic's just broken.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  That is such a big question. And I think, again, this is where it comes back to don't do it on your own. You know, I love the idea of dating clubs or a dating buddy. You know, the idea that you can have a friend, someone who's going through this process at the same time as you, or who's perhaps been through it before, to have these conversations with. And when it comes to, am I ready to date? If I am, why am I wanting to step into this next relationship? Those are really great questions to ponder on your own in a journal. You know, the why, because it's such an open-ended question, you know, that free association,

• 23:56Speaker 01

  just writing without any structure, I think is such a wonderful creative activity to do. Why do I want to be in a strong, positive relationship? And, you know, listener, I think you'll be surprised what comes up. And, you know, that's, that's a really good starting point with the why. And you'll probably notice some themes coming through in there. And often it's about, you know, what is going to fulfill me? You know, you mentioned about filling your cup. I think that's such a great analogy here. If you're going to step into your next great relationship, what is going to fill your cup?

• 24:34Elizabeth Day?

  I also want to say that you don't have to date, that if you are genuinely happy, stable, secure, being single and being in a wonderful relationship with yourself and with your platonic friends.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:50Elizabeth Day?

  That's great.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 24:52Elizabeth Day?

  And I think there might be some people listening to this, or maybe they're not listening because they reject the entire premise. Who'd state proudly, I'm fine as I am, I don't need anyone and I don't want to date. And on the one hand, there are genuinely individuals who I do believe that of. On the other hand, I know friends of mine who say that, but deep down, I feel that they are rejecting, they are avoiding something. And so they're saying that, but actually, deep down, they would like to meet someone, but they are intimidated by the idea of putting themselves out there. So what would your recommendation be? And maybe we could both talk about this really, about how to get over that, that worry about

• 25:35Elizabeth Day?

  presenting yourself on the apps. I mean, I know we're going to delve into it more deeply in a future episode, but maybe we could just touch on it now. With you, Mel, when you found your husband, that was on eHarmony, wasn't it? How did you find the wherewithal to go online? Did it scare you?

• 25:55Speaker 01

  Um, I wouldn't say it scared me, but I was very avoidant. So my style was very, I had a lot of denial going on. And I put up this incredible wall, this very, very tough wall. My friends said I had F off written across my forehead if anyone came near me. And believe it or not, I may be five foot, but apparently I was intimidating.

• 26:20Elizabeth Day?

  That's so cool. I wish I was more like you. I had, I had, I had anxious desperation across my forehead, I think.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  Oh, well, neither of us were gonna find happiness, really. It's a miracle we've ended up where we are. Well, we got through it. And because I had to become aware of it and I actually had friends challenge me on it. Where I was saying, you know, like you were saying earlier, um, I don't want a relationship. I don't need a relationship. I'm single and fabulous. I'm great on my own. And there were a couple of friends who just would quietly say to me, but really, do you really wanna stay on your own? And, you know, when I listened to that very quiet little voice inside my head, as I would lay my head on the pillow at night, you know, that those few moments between awake and asleep,

• 27:09Speaker 01

  when there's nothing but you and your pillow and blatant honesty. Those are the moments when I reflected and thought, I would love to be lying next to someone here who is just my perfect match. But I would, I wouldn't dare say that out loud because if I say that out loud, what if I meet someone and they reject me? Or what if I meet someone and they leave me?

• 27:37Speaker 01

  It was that fear of being vulnerable, I think, for me.

• 27:39Elizabeth Day?

  So what was it then that brought that wall down?

• 27:44Speaker 01

  Well, it all happened around the same time as I was becoming a dating coach. So I had this almost parallel process happening in my professional life and in my personal life. So I started doing some little mini social experiments with myself. So I started, well, I told myself I was doing experiments.

• 28:05Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  So it's almost like I tricked myself into, into online dating.

• 28:10Elizabeth Day?

  Clever, clever psychology.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Right, what's going on there? Something going on there. It's very complex, but it got me in there. And I realised that there were some really positive things coming up.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  But I also got feedback from people, you know, one of them was from an ex about coming across as intimidating, which at first I found funny, but then I thought it through and I thought, hmm, it's not really funny. It's actually a massive defence mechanism going on here. And in a later episode, I'll talk about one of those first date experiences where it was all about the wall and there was really none of the real me showing through.

• 28:49Elizabeth Day?

  Was it intimidating when you went, I mean, do we call eHarmony an app? I don't know.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:54Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah. Was it intimidating for you going on the apps? Because I think in my head, this is how naive I was. I was like, well, maybe it would be really fun. Because the world of dating had changed so much.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:07Elizabeth Day?

  I was like, well, this is a way of opening the doors to lots of people that I might not have met otherwise. So I think I was probably quite optimistic when I went on the apps and I, and I didn't feel that scared. How did you feel about it?

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Smug.

• 29:20Elizabeth Day?

  Smug? I felt smug as I'm listening to you describe your experience and your beautiful optimism and openness. I didn't have any of that.

• 29:31Speaker 01

  I went, oh, there was a real smugness. I went in there and you'll hear this in my telling, it's absolutely a defence mechanism. I wasn't really smug. I was projecting smugness and I was almost, looking back, I think I went into it looking down at the man.

• 29:49Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:49Elizabeth Day?

  Even though you're five foot.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  It's a physical impossibility, but I did it. I managed to do it. And I can remember, you know, almost whilst I was on some of these dates, thinking about the mean nickname that I was going to make for this, this boy to tell my girlfriends later, you know, I wasn't taking it seriously. And I think I almost gave myself permission to do that because I was doing it as part of my sort of experimentation and learning about it for my clients. But it was also an excuse for me not to let the walls down. And I realised that, you know, I can remember sitting opposite one guy and he was really serious about having a family and all I could think was, he's interviewing my womb.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  And that's all I could focus on for the entire chat. And I'm sure I wasted a really nice opportunity there to get to know someone who was probably really good boyfriend material, because in my mind, I was putting him down.

• 30:47Elizabeth Day?

  Fascinating. So do you think you were ready to date?

• 30:50Speaker 01

  No.

• 30:52Elizabeth Day?

  I wasn't.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  I really wasn't. And it's interesting that Gareth, who is now my husband, was able to cut through that. And a lot of that was to do with, you know, we talk about flirty banter or flanter, you know, that's definitely a thing. But for him, it was, it was intelligent banter that I didn't get from anybody else. And that seemed to be the key, that sort of magic ingredient that dropped my walls.

• 31:19Elizabeth Day?

  Hmm.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  Surprisingly.

• 31:21Elizabeth Day?

  So we've spoken about the when and the why, and now we're going to move on to the what, which is all about breaking old habits, which we've already touched on. And I'd love to talk to you here about checklists.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:39Elizabeth Day?

  Because many of us do approach any potential date with a checklist of things that we want to tick off and that we believe our mythically perfect future partner will have.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 31:55Elizabeth Day?

  Now, for me, there's a thin line between that and actually, as we've spoken about, being clear about the sort of relationship that you want to invite into your life and the sort of relationship you want to have with yourself. And you spoke about journaling or even writing a letter to your ex. And I actually did something before I met Justin, who you know is now my husband, and I met him on Hinge. I did something where I wrote, and I don't think it was a checklist, but I wrote down everything that I would ideally want in a partner. And that included things like, is supportive of my goals as well as,

• 32:37Elizabeth Day?

  I mean, ideally, he'd be within my age range and devastatingly handsome. I was like, you know, there's, there's no boundaries, there's no barriers. Let me write everything down. And actually, there was something very clarifying about that process. And I don't think I did put devastating handsome down there because I was like, actually, that's not important to me. It's not part of my core values. Kindness is much more important to me. And I wrote it down, I wrote it in pen on paper and then I lit it alight. And I let it burn into ashes and then I scattered the ashes into the wind so that there's all four elements. There's water, there was wood, there was one of the elements. Anyway, it was all four of them.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Fire.

• 33:20Elizabeth Day?

  Fire.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:21Elizabeth Day?

  And actually, I took a photo of that list before I burnt it. And when I met Justin and when I got to know him, I realised, I fished it out of my photo library on my phone. And I realised that he absolutely met every single one of the criteria. And it was so interesting. And yes, I might be a bit sort of spiritually aligned in that I do kind of believe in a power greater than us. But actually, I don't think that's just magic. I think that's about clarity of intention and then what you are looking for and what you're inviting in. Now, that's, is that different from a checklist, Mel?

• 34:02Speaker 01

  What I like about what you've said there is you were defining things that were a lot deeper than the superficial. And, you know, often, you know, I am involved in a little show.

• 34:14Elizabeth Day?

  Yes, let's talk about Married at First Sight. Thank goodness we've got on to it.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  I don't know if you've heard of it, yes.

• 34:19Elizabeth Day?

  And they're constantly talking about types.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 34:22Elizabeth Day?

  My type is a petite brunette. Oh my gosh, that winds me up so much.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  Yes, absolutely. And the long scroll list of all the things I want and don't want in a partner. And quite often, they are very superficial or they're just meaningless. You know, really, when if you if you quiz the person on this particular criteria, it doesn't mean anything to them. You know, it's just something that they. Often it's tied up with ego and with status and how they would be perceived by others if they had someone like that on their arm.

• 34:53Elizabeth Day?

  That's very interesting.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it doesn't run much deeper than that. But what I like about what you've described there, for example, someone who supports my goals or someone who is kind, these are the kinds of things that I think should make up 80% of your list. I think if you've got 80% covering internal factors, then you can play around with that 20% that are more external. And the 20% should be more fluid, flexible, things that, you know, they're not deal breakers at all. Maybe we should talk about deal breakers because I think that's pretty important here, isn't it?

• 35:26Elizabeth Day?

  Definitely.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  I think it's really important to make sure that your deal breakers are linked to your values. So for example, the one that you just said there about someone who is supportive of my goals, that may be linked to a value of ambition, for example, or independence. That is a really legitimate deal breaker to have, you know, as opposed to must not have hairy digits, you know?

• 35:52Elizabeth Day?

  When she's saying digits, she means fingers.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:55Elizabeth Day?

  Hairy phone number would be a deal breaker.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  It would be, I think. But the fingers, you know, yeah, or white shoes, you know, these are the kinds of things that I hear from people.

• 36:05Elizabeth Day?

  Wow.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  As deal breakers. And, you know, I've known particularly some women that I've worked with who've said, if he turns up and, for example, he's not wearing a belt, it's game over.

• 36:21Elizabeth Day?

  As someone who's only recently started wearing belts, because I always find them tricky items of clothing, I think that's so unfair.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  Very unfair.

• 36:29Elizabeth Day?

  You actually have that?

• 36:30Speaker 01

  I have.

• 36:31Elizabeth Day?

  That's wild.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 36:33Elizabeth Day?

  But you're right, to bring it back to values as much as you possibly can.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:37Elizabeth Day?

  Is a very important thing. So let's touch on attachment styles. What should we be aware of when it comes to attachment styles? What should we be aware of when we are ready to date?

• 36:50Speaker 01

  I think so many people who are out there dating at the moment are aware of attachment styles. It has become very popular. I know it's big on TikTok and so it's sort of flowing through into the world of dating. And I think we can probably focus on it too much. So I think let's not get too heavy here, but it's a great piece of awareness. It's a great piece of self-awareness. I'm all for anything that is going to build self-awareness. And you know, if you're just aware, even at a high level, if when you're in a relationship, you tend to be a little bit anxious, where you, you know, you have that that fear response and you're worried, for example, you have worries that your partner is going to leave or reject you, you might be anxiously attached. You know, that might mean that when you're in

• 37:33Speaker 01

  a relationship, you're a little bit clingy, you know, you're a bit uncomfortable about letting your partner have some freedom. And of course, you know, these kinds of behaviours can be very stifling, very unhelpful in a relationship. Then there's the avoidant, which is what I was describing I was when I was single. And, you know, not only avoiding dating altogether, but when I was getting into relationships, there were pretty much always people who were emotionally unavailable. So I was setting myself up for failure. That's classic self-sabotage. So avoidant people, when you get into a relationship, you often put the barriers up when it comes to being intimate. You don't really get vulnerable, keep things at a bit of a safe distance. And of course, that can cause all sorts of

• 38:16Speaker 01

  problems in a relationship as well. So ideally, what we're hoping for is a secure style of attachment, which basically means, you know, you're happy being in a relationship, you've got some independence of your own as well, you trust, you trust, that's such an important part of being securely attached, is it's based on trust in yourself and also in your partner.

• 38:40Elizabeth Day?

  You mentioned Married at First Sight. What is, do you think, the number one reason that you determine people are not ready to date on that show? What's the thing that comes up again and again?

• 38:54Speaker 01

  A big one is inflexibility. And often that is around type. Whether it's this is the type of person I usually date. Therefore, I can't allow myself to open up to you. Or I'm going to be judgmental about the kind of person you are because you are different from those I've dated before. But really, if we, if we take that helicopter view here, what we're describing is inflexibility of thought. And that's no good in any relationship, whether it's a friendship, a work relationship, family, or an intimate relationship. You know, one of the goals of a secure attachment and, you know, basically just being a good human is having flexibility in the way that you have relationships.

• 39:38Speaker 01

  So not being too fixed about my relationship has to do X and Y. But saying to yourself, if Z comes up, how might I respond? What could be the opportunities in Z?

• 39:50Elizabeth Day?

  Hmm. I mean, I know I'm slightly off topic, but do you ever deliberately match people who you know are going to challenge their inflexibility?

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's such growth in that.

• 40:04Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  I mean, I believe from a compatibility perspective, there can be like attracts like. And we can see couples who are very similar and they work out. But also, at the same time, opposites attract. And I think both things can be true. And I've definitely seen fantastic relationships in both of those models. But what I really love is seeing those opposites attract relationships where there is that challenging. And the most incredible growth can happen in those relationships.

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• 41:45Elizabeth Day?

  Well, I think we've nailed it. We've worked out that we're ready to date. Sorry, husbands, we're off.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  We're gonna jump back in the pool.

• 41:54Elizabeth Day?

  But I would love to know if you have a practical exercise that could help our listeners determine if they are indeed ready to date.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  So one of the guiding principles of date readiness really is having a positive dating mindset. And, you know, of course, we all bring so much baggage and experience from previous relationships. And that's, that's a given. So we're not going to say having baggage is a bad thing. It's just how it shows up and what you do with it. So this is about assessing your own readiness through your mindset.

• 42:27Elizabeth Day?

  I love that, that baggage is not a bad thing.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  No.

• 42:30Elizabeth Day?

  It's actually how you understand it and how you use it going forwards.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:34Elizabeth Day?

  What a great note.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  Good.

• 42:35Elizabeth Day?

  I won't interrupt now.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  So we have two axes, if you like. So two scales. One is about your beliefs about dating and one is about your actions. So both have a really symbiotic relationship. So when it comes to your beliefs, are they low beliefs about dating? So things like, I don't think I'll ever meet the right person, or I don't deserve to be happy in a relationship. You can hear that they're very negative kinds of beliefs and they're going to lead to probably quite negative behaviors. The other end of that scale, so high beliefs when it comes to dating would be things like, my next great relationship is just around the corner. So you can see that's a really positive, open belief, or I'm ready for a positive relationship.

• 43:21Speaker 01

  So you're really signaling to yourself and to the universe that I'm ready. And then the other scale is about your actions. So what you're actually prepared to do with that. So low actions might be things like, I'm not prepared to go out and meet people. Apparently my great love is going to fall out of the sky and land on my couch. You know, or I'd rather focus on other things like my career than go on dates. So they're quite avoidant. Through to the top end of that scale, things like I'm ready to initiate potential dates. So that's not just reacting to dates, but actually being proactive here. Or I'm happy to go out and approach others and create new connections.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  So the first task here is to plot yourself on a scale of one to 10 in terms of your beliefs and your actions.

• 44:11Elizabeth Day?

  So interesting. And also, when you were talking about the high vibrating beliefs, they sounded like affirmations as well. If you are struggling and if you are inclined to think pessimistically, would you suggest actually just physically saying those higher beliefs to yourself?

• 44:30Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I'd say print them out, put them all around your house, make them your wallpaper on your phone. That will be those reminders, those high vibe affirmations about your readiness to date.

• 44:43Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, and those phone wallpapers are downloadable right now at thepodclass.co.uk and they are really beautiful.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  Now, once you've got yourself plotted on the beliefs and the actions, you can then go to this little map and it will essentially let you know where you're at in terms of your mindset. Now, none of these are right or wrong. They're really just pieces of data that can tell you where you're at now. They're just an extra piece of self-awareness, which of course is so key here. So if you have really high beliefs and you really feel ready and want that relationship, but you're not prepared to take action, then that's what I would call blind faith. You're just believing that something outside yourself is going to happen. You know, if I think hard enough, he or she will come. Well, they probably won't unless you take action. Coming takes work.

• 45:39Speaker 01

  I believe that's another episode as well. Then what if you have low beliefs and low action? That's only going to lead to pessimism because you don't necessarily believe you're ready for it and you're not prepared to do anything about it. So that's complete avoidance or just someone who's not stepping into the dating pool at all. Then we have this one I find very interesting where you have high, you're high on the actions, but low on the beliefs. So you're taking lots of action. You may be going on lots of dates, you may be on all the apps, but you haven't really put any thought into it. You don't really know what is it you want? For example, you're just blowing in the wind and therefore you're on autopilot.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  So what we really are looking for here, the ideal place to be is in realistic optimism. So you have that positive set of beliefs, you feel ready and you're prepared to back it up with positive action. You're out there, you're trying.

• 46:35Elizabeth Day?

  And the low belief can also be about yourself. It can be, I'm not worthy, no one will love me.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 46:44Elizabeth Day?

  Okay.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  So this set of beliefs is about yourself, a potential partner and relationships in general.

• 46:51Elizabeth Day?

  So interesting. I honestly do wish I'd had this at my disposal when I was dating. So much of what I was doing was led by a kind of willful blindness. And this is so helpful because it helps you be proactive, considered, stable and positive as you're going into dating. Okay, Mel, I think we've covered all of the bases, but I just think this episode has shown how much we have to discuss.

• 47:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:20Elizabeth Day?

  And also I know from the feedback that I've got from Instagram followers, from listeners of How To Fail, how much this pod class is needed. And it was part of the reason I was really passionate about doing it. And as you know, I am really passionate about making expertise accessible. And the idea is, is that the Podclass is a limited series. So we will be with you in your ears for eight episodes plus one bonus at the end. You can follow us on a week by week journey, or you can choose to subscribe and binge all of the episodes at once. But the idea is that by the end of this How to Date Podclass, you will have your dating toolkit, you will know what you need to do, and you will, we hope, feel really empowered

• 48:04Elizabeth Day?

  to take the next steps, whatever they are for you. And we really hope that you meet someone along the way, and maybe the best person you meet will be yourself. That's beautiful. We can't wait to see you next week, when we will be talking about meeting someone, which is the eternal question. So we very much hope that you will join us next week for episode two of How to Date with me, Elizabeth Day. And me, Mel Schilling. We can't wait. See you then. Bye.

• 48:35Elizabeth Day?

  How to Date is proudly sponsored by Morrison's. Mel and I are on a mission to revolutionise dating. We want to make it better for everyone. And what better way to do that than to get you lovely listeners to sign up to a good dating pledge? Mel and I have designed 10 dating commandments, things like, I will communicate clearly and with kindness, I will not ghost or breadcrumb, I will always ask consent. And you can go and sign up just by putting your email in, that's all we ask. You can go and sign up at thepodclass.co.uk. That's thepodclass, P-O-D-C-L-A-S-S.co.uk. Let's make dating better for everyone. Thank you so much for listening.

• 49:19Elizabeth Day?

  Please do like, follow and share with everyone you know who might want to listen. Who knows? One of them might even turn out to be your future romantic partner. This is a Daylight Productions and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast.