Part Two: The Alien Invasion Already Happened. JFK, The CIA & Who’s Really Controlling History | Peter Levenda

What if the UFO phenomenon isn’t simply being investigated by governments, but is being used to investigate us? And what if the forces behind it are connected to consciousness, intelligence agencies, occultism, and nonhuman intelligence? In this episode of Mayim Bialik’s Breakdown, Peter Levenda, author of the Sinister Forces trilogy and co-author with Blink-182’s Tom DeLonge of the nonfiction Sekret Machines trilogy (Gods, Man, and War), goes deep down the rabbit hole of UFOs, UAP, nonhuman intelligence (NHI), government secrecy, consciousness, occultism, intelligence operations, and the mysterious “Men in Black.” We begin with the JFK assassination and explore its possible connections to UFOs, NHI, consciousness, and sinister forces operating behind the scenes. Levenda examines why he believes Kennedy’s assassination may have affected the American psyche more deeply than we realize, as well as the intriguing parallels between the Lincoln and Kennedy assassinations. Could the U. S. government have been influenced by negative nonhuman intelligence? Was there ever a secret deal between the government and aliens? And is the growing push for UFO/UAP/NHI disclosure revealing the truth, or concealing something more sinister? Levenda discusses why he finds it frustrating that NHI is often reduced to traditional “angels and demons” narratives, and why understanding the phenomenon may require perspectives from religious scholars, linguists, anthropologists, psychiatrists, and other experts, not just the technological and military worlds. We examine the infamous Roswell UAP crash and its possible connection to Nazi technology, the relationship between occultism, religion, mythology, and power, and the disturbing ties between occult ideas and Nazi Germany. We also explore Levenda’s encounters with the “Men in Black,” including why he believes certain entities may not want him to have the information he possesses. He shares his own riveting UAP sighting and considers the strange possibility that his years of studying UFOs and occultism could somehow have played a role in summoning or conjuring the phenomenon. Could intelligence agencies be studying (and potentially manipulating) UFO experiencers? Levenda explores theories involving the CIA, reverse-engineering the phenomenon, and the unsettling history of government experimentation on its own citizens, including MKUltra, Project Bluebird, and the Montreal “deep patterning” experiments involving memory manipulation and alleged false-memory implantation. We ask what consciousness manipulation might look like today, and how psychological operations, propaganda, and behavioral experimentation could influence what we believe without us recognizing it. We also unpack the controversial theories surrounding Hitler’s alleged survival after World War II, questioning the official bunker-suicide narrative and examining conflicting eyewitness testimony. We also confront a deeper question: What happens psychologically when you go too far down the rabbit hole of UFOs, secret societies, occultism, and humanity’s hidden history? From JFK and Roswell to NHI, intelligence agencies, government experimentation, disclosure, consciousness manipulation, the Men in Black, Nazi technology, occultism, and Hitler survival theories, this conversation explores whether the UFO phenomenon is technological, psychological, consciousness-related...or something far stranger. And if powerful institutions have influenced what people believe for generations, how much of our reality is actually our own? Learn more about Peter Levenda and his books: http://peterlevenda.com/ Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/mayimbialik%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0 See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik.

• 0:05Jonathan Cohen?

  And I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 0:06Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to part two of our conversation with Peter Levenda. He's the co-author with Blink 182's Tom DeLonge of God's Man in War, the Sekret Machines nonfiction trilogy, as well as Sinister Forces, a grimoire of American political witchcraft. You do not want to miss part one of this episode, but in part two, we're going to talk about government manipulation of minds of other governments and of information that we have, as well as the way that that bridges to conversations about UFOs, non-human intelligence, as well as consciousness. We're also going to talk about the end of World War II and some of the wild conspiracy theories that Peter has researched for decades about if Hitler actually died in that bunker, or is it possible that he went to Indonesia?

• 0:51Mayim Bialik?

  There's a lot of really interesting history from that time that Peter's going to explain to us. Also, he's going to talk about the possibility that we're all living in one giant dream that is dreamed up by a consciousness we don't yet know how to articulate. Part two is fantastic. We cannot wait for you to hear. Part two of our conversation with Peter Levenda.

• 1:11Speaker 02

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• 1:37Mayim Bialik?

  Can you bring us into conversations about the CIA, right? About the FBI? And as my skeptical people I talk to when I try and talk about these things say, it's like, well, they have to investigate everything. This is their job. Doesn't mean they believe it, right? Can you speak to that? Because there is a very-- between MKUltra and for those of us who kind of, again, follow all the documentaries about it, there is our very own dipping into psi phenomenon that has been not only sanctioned by our government, but utilized for decades, in many cases with good success, right?

• 2:22Mayim Bialik?

  In terms of finding criminals, using remote viewing. We've spoken to Angela Ford. Like, we've gotten to speak to people who were on the inside. Help us understand kind of the difference, right? Between a government using these forces kind of for advantageous reasons and how that can slip into questionable activities.

• 2:42Speaker 03

  Well, I make that point in Sinister Forces, in particular with MKUltra and the CIA. They were doing incredible things, trying to explore the possibilities, the potential of the human mind and of consciousness, but they were doing it in this ham-handed way, right? A cult or, let's say, mystical organizations for thousands of years have always understood that there's dangers in this practice, in these techniques. And you had to prepare somebody, slowly build them up, build up their defenses, analyze them before they got into too deep. What kind of demons were they hiding in their own unconscious mind, right? What kind of bad memories?

• 3:25Speaker 03

  What kind of things that they've suppressed? All of this has to be done first in a pattern of initiatory steps, one after the other, after the other. What CIA did was like, just throw everything at it, right? Let's just rip apart the consciousness of individual people, unsuspecting, by the way. These were not voluntary subjects. Let's just tear it apart. Let's go in there and see what can be done, see what we can do to pull out some useful information. Can we create an assassin who will kill on command and then forget that they were an assassin, right? Can we erase memory? Can we selectively erase memory? Hey, if we can erase it, can we implant memories that were never there, right?

• 4:10Speaker 03

  They were doing this for a huge amount of time, since about 1950, with Bluebird, the very first operation during the Korean War.

• 4:19Jonathan Cohen?

  Some people are hearing this and are like, what are you, like, ripping down someone's consciousness, implanting memory? It sounds so unbelievable as to be discredited, yet we know some of these were actually initiatives that were happening and documented. So can you walk us through a little bit of the details?

• 4:39Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, and also Wormwood, which was the Netflix series about this. Wormwood does a great job of showing the specific manipulation of an individual. And, you know, these are also, these are devastating experiments that were done on citizens of our own country who thought that they were signing up to help, right? To help their nation. And instead, they were used and manipulated and tormented, and in many cases, killed. So also recommending Wormwood for those of you who want that version.

• 5:12Speaker 03

  And not even people who signed up for it. We're talking about also the clinic in Montreal that was run by Dr. Ewan Cameron, the head of the World Psychiatric Association for many years, who was operating on unsuspecting people. They came in because they had a problem with alcohol or they had problems sleeping, or they had whatever, some relatively minor issues, major to them, but minor issues from the point of view of psychiatry. And he would take them and brutalize them, right? In the name of science and funded by CIA. Because this was, these were operations taking place outside the United States, right? So CIA is not supposed to operate within the United States in intelligence gathering.

• 5:56Speaker 03

  But when you have projects going on overseas, you know, all bets are off. So you had innocent people in Canada who were being, going to a psychiatrist for regular help, and they were having memories erased. They were having false memories implanted. They were subjected to different types of processes where there was constant music pumped into their brain as they were sleeping, right? Trying to disrupt their brain patterns, basically, so they could slip suggestions in. I mean, all kinds of hideous stuff was going on up until 1963, as far as we know. In Canada's case, that was pulled, they pulled the plug in 63, in the end of 63. But it was ongoing in the United States until the mid-'70s, that we know of.

• 6:41Speaker 03

  And this was the focus of a major congressional investigation in 1977. You can look all the documentation up. They knew this was taking place. CIA knew. Richard Helms knew. Sidney Gottlieb, who was running it, right? Was burying the documents and shredding them when they realized Congress wanted to do an investigation. Massive amounts of documents were destroyed. So we don't know all the details, but we have some because of financial receipts and financial records, which don't go away. And they're able to trace some of the institutions that got the money and then find the people. And, you know, poor Frank Olson, you know, an American scientist who was, they dosed with LSD just to see what would happen. He didn't know he was taking acid, right?

• 7:22Speaker 03

  And he fell out of a window in a hotel in New York, at Madison Square Garden. A very tiny window that he accidentally fell out of. And he was there in a room with the CIA handler.

• 7:35Mayim Bialik?

  I don't think he fell.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  I don't think he fell. No, he didn't fall. Obviously, he didn't. If you've been to that room, and I've seen it, there's no way you fell out of that window. So, and he was very paranoid. Of course he was. He had had acid. He didn't know how he had that experience, why he had that experience. And so he began to doubt his own sanity, obviously. And he was running around telling people, and they said, no, no, no, you can't, ix-nay on the LSD. So the CIA got sued by the Olson family, and they won a lawsuit against CIA for this. This is, if your listeners are going to, you Google Operation Bluebird, Artichoke, and especially MKUltra, but there were a lot of other programs, and that was just CIA.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  The military had their own programs as well. And with the military, not that easy to say no. They could operate on their own troops with impunity to see what would happen. So those documents have yet to see, really, the light of day, but we know people have come forward and spoken about them. So we know that it exists. So the military was doing this. The CIA was doing this. I'm pretty sure the FBI wasn't. It's not in their purview. But you don't know if they took advantage of things like this. So, yes, going into the memory, this is the major thing that, to me, was--

• 8:55Speaker 03

  Unbelievable that they would believe that they had the right to erase a person's memory, even selectively erase it, and then replace it with a different kind of memory. And they used hypnosis to hypnotize one of their own people in an office at CIA, at Langley, I guess, to leave her office, it was a young woman, to pick up a gun, go into another office and shoot somebody. And they did that. Of course, the gun had no bullets, right? It was a test, but she picked up, she went to the other room and she shot this person. She pulled the trigger, right? That's a very famous case that's in the literature of MKUltra. They were doing this. They knew they could get away with it. And once you

• 9:34Speaker 03

  do that, and then you lie about it for so long, it makes everybody really paranoid. So we all get really paranoid when we're being spoken to by the government saying, oh, no, we didn't do that, right?

• 9:47Mayim Bialik?

  Donald, you and Cameron, who we just talked about, kind of like listening to what you're saying, and we're talking about, you know, these experiments that were done and, you know, trying to understand it. And again, head of the American psychiatric. So one of the other things that Dr. Cameron did was he was called in for the Nuremberg Trials.

• 10:05Speaker 03

  Right.

• 10:06Mayim Bialik?

  So this is a really big deal, because we now have kind of a combination of several things that I don't want combining. He was brought in to assess Rudolf Hess. He was brought in, you know, Hess is like, oh, I don't remember what happened, you know, meanwhile, he was a, you know, a significant Nazi leader. How interesting that Cameron was the one to be brought in to talk not only about memories, but about the memories of a Nazi leader, who we're already talking about as, you know, possible occult forces here, right?

• 10:41Speaker 03

  Well, Hess himself was a big believer, which is why he flew to Scotland in the first place. It was astrologically predicted, this would be a great time for him to get on the plane and try to convince, you know, England to side with Germany against Russia. This is just before, you know, that whole invasion of Russia was on the books, it hadn't happened yet. So Hess decides on his own, he's the number two man in Nazi Germany. I mean, Mein Kampf is dedicated to Rudolf Hess. And Hess was a big believer in telepathy and occultism. He grew up with that. He was friends with all the occultists around the SS and Himmler and all those guys. So we're talking about the number two man in Nazi Germany was an occultist to a certain extent.

• 11:25Mayim Bialik?

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• 13:25Speaker 03

  He shows up in Scotland, they want you and Cameron to say, is this really Rudolf Hess, right? Or is this an imposter? Because we think it's an imposter. We think this is like a setup. They're trying to like provoke us into doing something. And that's when Cameron went and he said, well, you know, it's a possibility, but I think it really is Rudolf Hess, and that was it.

• 13:44Mayim Bialik?

  And I would know, because I implant memories in people's brains, and I'm, you know, in touch with other sinister forces of psychiatry.

• 13:52Speaker 03

  And I can tell that this is, this was not my handiwork, it was probably somebody else's. So, I mean, this is, this is, this is the world we're dealing with, right? And so, I don't know, it's, I know what it sounds like to people listening. This sounds like we're, you know, we're just totally paranoid. There's no facts to anything we're saying. We're making stuff up. But I, you know, just look it up. I assure you, we're not making any of this up. What we're coming to are conclusions, or, you know, partial conclusions based on the evidence. The evidence is, is pretty damning. You have a Nazi connection, you have a CIA connection, you have consciousness being manipulated, memories being manipulated,

• 14:33Speaker 03

  you have dead scientists, you have, you know, the abuse of, of, of American citizens and Canadian citizens, at least that we know of. We have other programs that spun out from all of that. We have the Phoenix Program in Vietnam and in the Philippines, right? You have, let's see if we can convince people that there are demons, you know, attacking their village, and maybe they'll like surrender to us for protection, you know. I talked to people from Phoenix in Vietnam. You know, they would invent all kinds of wild stuff. They'd play loudspeakers with weird noises and sounds to scare a population. So you're manipulating consciousness, you're using religion to do it. You're using occultism

• 15:13Speaker 03

  to do it, to get people to do what you want them to do. So this is, this is normal. And it was normal in the 1960s. It was normal in the 1950s.

• 15:24Mayim Bialik?

  You have an incredible story of how you avoided the draft. You know, my dad became a public school teacher. That was his, his solution. But I'm thinking about also the reasons that people, and this is going to take an interesting loop, you know, the reasons that many people avoided supporting the war. And the, the, the anti-war movement was really predicated on this notion that we are not meant, you know, to go foreign places and kill people in the name of God or our government. But I'm also thinking about, you know, the Timothy Leary connection to this era, right, of our culture, which was that, you know, if you, if you open up enough people's consciousness, and I've said this a million times, and my

• 16:09Mayim Bialik?

  kids are so tired of hearing it too, if you open up people's consciousness enough, and you get them in touch with a source of love, community, friendship, and camaraderie in this universe, they will be less likely to put on a uniform and go across the world to wage war. And so, you know, this is also the time that the legalization of these drugs became number one priority, right, for the US government. Every, make everything illegal, criminalize it, that people who are expanding their consciousness are dangerous, they're hooligans, they're going to be, you know, out doing drugs in the street, which, you

• 16:49Mayim Bialik?

  know, obviously, there's a lot of politics around that now, also in terms of legalization. But I think that this, this notion that expansion of consciousness potentially getting us in touch with, you know, some unifying forces is, is completely antithetical to the kind of techniques we're talking about that were used to manipulate and wage war a world away.

• 17:15Speaker 03

  It's not for nothing, they call this a trip. I spent a lot of time overseas. I've lived overseas for years, right? And when you, when you do that, you're, you're seeing people as people, right? It doesn't matter their background, whether it's religious or, or, or political or anything else. I mean, I spent a lot of time in China when it was, you know, just after the Cultural Revolution, you know, so I was doing business in that, in that part of the world. And, you know, people are just people, basically, right? So they're motivated by things, they're motivated, they're manipulated. Their governments manipulate them the way, you know, we're manipulated here by advertising, by media, by government, by all kinds of other forces. So if you strip away the, the, the manipulation,

• 17:57Speaker 03

  and you just see things, you know, in a pristine kind of way, then you, your natural inclination is to be friends with people. Your natural inclination is to say, oh, we're all pretty much alike. We have differences, but the differences are so minor, they don't really amount to anything, really, right? So yeah, that's there. You don't want that happening. You don't want Americans to feel that people in foreign countries are like them, or they have it, maybe they have it good in foreign countries, maybe they have it better in foreign countries. You never know. You know, these things happen. There's no such thing that says if you're born in a foreign country, you're automatically evil. But we're given this kind of concept here. We're, we're being taught to distrust absolutely everyone. And that is, well, it's antithetical to-

• 18:43Speaker 03

  To LSD, I mean, it's certainly antithetical to things like ayahuasca or psilocybin or anything else. These ideas don't come from that space, right? Those ideas come from a completely different space. This kind of manipulation of consciousness was something that the CIA in our country was definitely very interested in. In the Soviet Union, it took on some different connotations. They really did give a lot of support to investigating the paranormal as well. They had a very constructive program. Some of those documents have since been released.

• 19:19Mayim Bialik?

  They were doing remote viewing and using all of these techniques long before we were, and the United States hates when the Soviet Union does something that we didn't do first. So, but that's, I mean, those techniques were being used, and I'm very interested, and maybe for another time, I'm very interested in how that became such a pivotal part, right, of that government's emphasis, but we got it after they did, correct?

• 19:46Speaker 03

  Right. The reason we got it is we thought that they were doing it, right? It was the idea of brainwashing that came out of the Korean War. We thought the Soviets, oh my God, they're doing something weird. They're manipulating consciousness in some way. They're taking our troops and turning them into communists, right? How does that happen? So, the very first Bluebird operation of CIA was 1950, and this was after, you know, there were these show trials of American troops saying, you know, we regret that we had gone to Korea to fight for the evil Americans, and, you know, we want to embrace our Korean brothers. So that whole thing was making everybody nuts. And there was a Catholic cardinal who had been forced to recant in front of everybody, Cardinal Benzetti, also during the Cold War. And we got freaked out over that, they're manipulating his mind.

• 20:30Speaker 03

  So, yes, the Russians were, at least were believed to have been the first to do it. Their cultural environment was much more vaster than ours. We were trying to operate within a very narrow, if you know CIA back in the day, it was very WASP. You had to come from the right school, the right family, and everything else in the beginning. So, the Russian system was just, everybody's welcome here in this mess. So, you had a lot of, you know, witchcraft studies taking place in the Soviet Union, then you had the occult stuff taking place, studies of it, right? Religion, interestingly enough, was, of course, more or less banned in the Soviet Union. They didn't like religion, it was, you know, the opiate of the people. And yet, they were making a very close scientific study of the paranormal.

• 21:13Speaker 03

  They separated those two almost immediately. We had a problem in this country doing that, we still have a problem. But in that country, they were able to separate it. And in China, it's a place that I have some familiarity with as well. We had a guy working with this American rocket scientist who was a follower of Aleister Crowley, and, ugh, it's a whole other hour you can do with that. But anyway, he was involved with the same group, inventing basically jet fuel, rocket fuel. Made a major contribution to the war effort and a major contribution to space science. There was a Chinese scientist, Dr. Cien, who was part of that entourage.

• 21:53Speaker 03

  He was so trusted by American military, American intelligence, he was able to go to Europe before the war was over. He was in Germany in March and in April of 45, and they were debriefing German scientists. He was one of the two people debriefing German scientists at the time. But the Red Scare started in the States, and because he was Chinese, he was believed he must be a communist. So, they pulled his security clearances, they put him under house arrest. And eventually, he said, I've had it with this, and he managed to get the arrest lifted, and he went right away to China, where he jump-started their space program, invented

• 22:33Speaker 03

  the silkworm missiles, and at the same time devoted a lot of his attention to the paranormal, to investigating and promoting a study of the paranormal within the Chinese government. So, they were able to separate the religious aspect out from the paranormal aspect in a way that we still have a hard time doing in this country.

• 22:52Mayim Bialik?

  You can't separate them out, because religion is sort of the way that we try and dress up the things that we can't explain, and then you add politics to that, and you get a structure, and in that sense, Marx was not wrong, right? Once you add the political structure and the forcefulness, right, that comes with, oh, guess what, we found the one way to believe in God, and everyone who doesn't should be massacred, right? That's actually not, that's not God. That is a human attempt, right, to control people using that vernacular of spirituality,

• 23:33Mayim Bialik?

  of mysticism, of the things that touch us deeply, right, that people for all of history before there was religion were experiencing, right? When you saw, the first thing I thought of when you were describing your UFO experience, I wanted to know what you felt, and the fact is, in our culture, that's not the place we go to. Because in other, for all of history, when people would experience things, right, they were likely tapping into an entire other system that existed separate from computers and desks and books and the things that we think about, right? So, you went into analysis mode when you saw what you saw.

• 24:10Speaker 03

  Right.

• 24:11Mayim Bialik?

  And in another time, you might have said, and what Ezekiel probably said, is like, whoa, what is this bringing up? What am I feeling? What is it evoking? That's actually what religion actually is, right? You cannot separate those things. But once you get this sort of politicization and you get government involvement in telling us what we're experiencing, that's when it all gets completely muddy and completely distant from the actual source of the phenomenon, right? Which is what, you know, if you're curious in these realms, you actually can get close to, which we shouldn't be surprised why many people are, having journeys. You can't swing a dead cat in Los Angeles without finding someone who did ayahuasca this weekend, right?

• 24:54Mayim Bialik?

  Like, you know, and there's different kind of reasons and motivations behind that, but if we're thinking about sort of source and consciousness, like, it's all just one thing that we're trying to tap into.

• 25:05Speaker 03

  Right, and the politics has made it almost impossible for people to do this on their own successfully, because they have to get past all of this armoring, I guess, in a righty instance, right? They have to get past all of this defensive stuff they've thrown up. During that period of all this remote viewing and the back and the forth between the Russians, the Chinese, the Americans, one of the major problems was we only had a binary choice, right? I mean, right after World War II was over, and we're bringing the Nazi scientists over under Operation Paperclip, hundreds and hundreds of them, there was pushback. There was pushback from Einstein, there was pushback from FDR's widow, and Mrs. Roosevelt, she was saying, no, we can't be doing this, this is horrible.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  But gradually, what happened, a hardening took place in the US government, that communism was the enemy. We could deal with the Nazis, we could use the information they had, we can use everything, we can use their scientists, we can use all of this stuff, no problem, because the main problem is communism. You're either anti-communist, which means that you're with us, right? Or you're anti-Nazi. If you're anti-Nazi, we suspect your motivations, you might be a communist, if you're anti-Nazi. Those are the only two choices you had. There was a tremendous fight in Congress in that time, the late 1940s, early 1950s, between Congress people who were very definitely anti-communist, but they were also anti-Nazi.

• 26:34Speaker 03

  And they wanted to sit on, you know, on Peron and give him to cough up the Nazis who were fleeing to Argentina. And the pushback in Congress among real diehard conservatives was, no, we're not going to do that, because our enemy is the communists, and the Nazis are helping us, right? They're anti-communist like we are, like the Vatican.

• 26:55Mayim Bialik?

  The Venn diagram is not, it's not positive, you know, especially, you know, my parents are first-generation Americans, so my grandparents, literally, this is, you know, the world that they fled, right? So, the overlap here of, you know, the US government saying, here's what's acceptable for you to be against, and here's what's unacceptable because it doesn't serve our needs, right? As opposed to, and I don't mean to be the hippie in the room, but to be like, well, what actually serves goodness and the health of people is not to be killed, right? And not to be persecuted, and to be allowed to, you know, live their life without any government, you know, oppressing them or massacring them.

• 27:37Mayim Bialik?

  Given what we know about the government's somewhat systematic manipulation of certain individuals and experiences, what should we be concerned about now? Like, we shouldn't believe that, oh, this was a thing of the past. This manipulation is still happening now. What are the things that we should be kind of most vigilant about?

• 28:03Speaker 03

  The conflict space that we're in at the moment is more complicated than we've ever actually had to be aware of consciously. We have

• 28:18Speaker 03

  Political ambiguity. We've got tremendous political ambiguity out there. We're still thinking in binary terms. Us versus them. That's a problem. I don't know how we get out of that mindset. But it's necessary. The us versus them is not working. It has never worked. Will never work. There's us versus them. And there's all these people in the middle who are neither us nor them. But the problem is, the reason why this space is murky is because now it's been heavily influenced by this whole idea that there may be a non-human intelligence on the planet that's somehow manipulating things. And that has forced people into taking hardened positions

• 29:01Speaker 03

  on religion and on conspiracy theories and all the rest of it. The labels have multiplied like crazy. So now we're dependent upon social media, which is lying to us constantly. So this idea of learning how to discern what is real from what is not real, it's become virtually impossible. And it's within the scope of the powers that be, let's call them, to make it as impossible as possible. Look at it this way. People ask me, you know, about an alien invasion. Shouldn't we be prepared for an alien invasion? My response to that has been, it's already happened. It has happened. It's happened thousands of years ago. There's been an alien invasion.

• 29:44Speaker 03

  You know, we've met the enemy and they are us, let's say. But more to the point, they have manipulated, or the phenomenon has seemed to, whether it's been intentional or accidental, the phenomenon manipulates consciousness. They show up where they want to show up. They disappear when they want to disappear. Sometimes they show up as ships sailing through the sky. Sometimes they're flying saucers. Sometimes they're cigar shaped. Sometimes they're orbs, right? This phenomenon has all different kinds of faces on it. They're not stuck to one specific type of manifestation. That right away indicates manipulation, right? Right away then indicates that they can appear to be whatever they want it to appear to be, whatever this is. And is that our fault? Is it because we're projecting something

• 30:29Speaker 03

  onto something which is pristine otherwise? Maybe just an orb, you know? Just a sphere, but we're projecting angels and demons? We're projecting gods and monsters onto this? Greys and Tals, Nordics and all the rest of it? Are we just coming up with this stuff on our own? And we're doing that? If so, the invasion is actually happening, right? Our consciousness is being manipulated. Now you add to that, the internet, you add to that suggestibility in many different ways, the way we consume entertainment, the way we consume information. And I always use this example. One day, it's possible, we may all wake up around the planet having had the same dream. And when that happens, it's over.

• 31:14Speaker 03

  The invasion has successfully accomplished its goal. Now our dreams are being manipulated. Our consciousness is being manipulated. And that's it. That's what we have to be afraid of. Can we defend ourselves against it? Of course we can. We can strengthen ourselves from the point of view of consciousness. We can strengthen ourselves mentally, spiritually, right? You don't have to belong to any one specific religion. No one has the monopoly on this experience. So, but you can, using the tools at your disposal, strengthen yourself spiritually, mentally, psychologically. There was a famous occultist, Israel Redgardie, who was also a psychotherapist. And he always recommended, anybody gets involved in this subject

• 31:59Speaker 03

  to any extent, especially occultism in general, but you know, anything like that. Spend a year or two in therapy first.

• 32:06Mayim Bialik?

  How do you finally stop getting in your own way to receive the life that was meant for you? That is the powerful question that drives every conversation on the Kathy Heller Podcast. Hosted by spiritual teacher and bestselling author Kathy Heller, the podcast explores the spiritual laws that shape how life unfolds.

• 32:21Jonathan Cohen?

  Through conversations with thought leaders, artists, healers and entrepreneurs, the Kathy Heller Podcast reveals how expanding our consciousness changes what we allow and ultimately what we receive.

• 32:32Mayim Bialik?

  Each week you'll learn how to regulate your nervous system so it can hold more light, how to shift the beliefs that keep you small and how to attune your energy to the deeper intelligence already guiding your life. Notable guests include Matthew McConaughey, Gabby Bernstein, Jay Shetty and many more. I had the pleasure of joining Kathy on her podcast and we had an incredible discussion about the importance of caring for your mental health and how to embrace the shared faith that we have as human beings. If you're ready to finally receive the abundance, joy, creativity and purpose that's been waiting for you all along, check out the Kathy Heller Podcast. Follow the Kathy Heller Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen. Watch video episodes at youtube.com/kathyheller.

• 33:12Speaker 03

  But what he meant was, you don't know what you're dealing with. When you start probing into your own mind, you don't know what's lurking there waiting for you. You know, the Magic Flute by Mozart, you know? The famous guardians at the gate, who are these vicious monsters? But as soon as you pass them, there's a couple of regular guys, right? You have to figure out who the monster is in your own unconscious mind. You have to figure out what's in there, what you've buried, what you're resistant to. Because if you don't, you will come across it eventually. If you're serious, if you open the door to these experiences, you will have to encounter negativity. The negativity we've all been born with or raised with or, you know, as victims of our circumstances, of our culture, of our upbringing, you know, nature and nurture. It's all in there.

• 33:57Speaker 03

  We're going to have to encounter it. This has to be done. You have to, and once you do that, the upshot is, the benefit is, you become a lot more mellow, right? You become a lot more forgiving. You become a lot more wise in a sense. You know that everybody's got these things inside of them, that they're dealing with, that they're battling with. So what we can do is just strengthen ourselves individually, not fall for every story we hear, not fall for every conspiracy theory that comes down the pike, but be aware that there are conspiracies. That's a fact. They do exist. Which one is the one that you have to be afraid of? Well, you know, I hate to use that term, do your research, because these days, do your research just means looking at a YouTube video somewhere.

• 34:40Speaker 03

  That's not, people like me, we came from a different, you know, the boomer mentality, which is that we go through and we just do a lot of, you know, reading and a lot of talking and a lot of investigating, a lot of meeting people and getting their points of view. I got points of view on all different sides of the political landscape through my entire life. I talked to everybody. I spoke to Islamic terrorists, for instance, in Indonesia. I mean, these are the things that you do if you want to know what they're thinking and you want to know why people come to these things. You have to, you have to be open to that kind of research. But you have to be, you have to be strong internally, right? You have to realize, when you're listening to bullshit, you're listening to bullshit. You have to be able to piece that together.

• 35:25Speaker 03

  You have to make these assumptions and make these calculations when you're talking to people. But you record things, you make notes and you go back and you look at them later. You look at them later. And eventually a story emerges, something you can be comfortable with.

• 35:38Mayim Bialik?

  That's so well said and it kind of touches on so many aspects of what we try and, you know, communicate here as well. I really appreciate that perspective. I wonder if you can talk to us about ways that you've been aware that people may not want you in particular to have this information out there? And I'm speaking about your sort of Men in Black encounter, but also, you know, curious if you see it other places? And maybe you can tell us about that.

• 36:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, the Men in Black episode, that took place during the first Gulf War. So that's how long ago that was? 1990, was it? January, something like that? December, January? I was living in Rhode Island, in a little, in a small town on the, near the border of Rhode Island and Connecticut. So I'm on a road called Ashaway Road. And it's sparsely populated. There's a house here, a house there, a house there. And I've come back, I've, coming back from a drive, I think I was shopping, yes? And I had a trunk full of groceries. I opened the trunk, I'm taking out the groceries and I look up and I see an old model, black Cadillac idling, not parked,

• 36:52Speaker 03

  but idling in front of the house. And I'm looking at the driver's side. The driver is aiming this camera at me with a wide lens. And I'm thinking, what the hell is this, right? I'm in the middle of nowhere. It's cold, you know? It's, there's no snow on the ground, but it's, you know, it's cold. It's New England temperature. And there's this car idling and taking a picture. Their windows obviously roll down. The camera's pointing at me. So I look at this thing and say, what the hell is this? So I lay down the bag of groceries that I'm carrying and I start walking down my driveway to the road and the car just takes off. So I run out and I try to see the license plate number. I don't get a number, but I get the color of the license plate. Could be the Rhode Island color at the time or it could be a federal plate.

• 37:36Speaker 03

  They were both the same colors at the time. So I said, okay, this is weird. I run back to my car. I'm going to follow this car and see where it's going. I get to my car and another car shows up. An old model, again, a station wagon, pulls right in behind my car, blocks me from leaving. And two little women are in the car. And I say little, I mean they're maybe four foot six, four foot seven. They get out of the car. They open the both doors. They get out of the car.

• 38:07Speaker 03

  And they stare up at me and they have

• 38:10Speaker 03

  this sort of winsome look like Manson family people is what I saw it looked like. Maybe it was squeaky from or something. And they're wearing these cloth coats, this cloth woolen cloth coats, very old fashioned dress. And the driver looks up at me sweetly and says, we need to know, do you know where De Vilbus lives? De Vilbus is the name they use. I'll never forget it. You know where De Vilbus lives? And I'm frustrated because I want to follow the other car. And I say, no, I have no idea.

• 38:37Mayim Bialik?

  Who's De Vilbus?

• 38:38Speaker 03

  That's where it gets interesting. So they pull out of the car and they go and I want to, I'm not thinking clearly as I did with the triangle in the sky, obviously. I'm not too, not too quick on the uptick. I should have followed that car, right? But I didn't because they just disturbed me from following the car I actually had. So my priorities were all screwed up. They took off and then I realized, holy shit. That was the whole purpose. They stopped me from following the car. And then I said, De Vilbus, I know that name, De Vilbus. Where do I know that name from? And I went back home and I mean, I'm at home. I go through my records and of course De Vilbus. It's a company in Ohio that makes certain types of equipment.

• 39:22Speaker 03

  I was in sales at that point. I was selling equipment. And this one guy that I worked with said, you should call these guys. They might be interested in buying this equipment. I knew them from when I worked, you know, in Alabama. And he worked at Alabama. For who, right? He worked in Alabama for our favorite Werner von Braun, right? When he was in charge of the arsenal down there, where they were doing the rocket research in Alabama. Right? That's where he was stationed. And this guy worked for Werner von Braun at the time.

• 39:53Mayim Bialik?

  Why would they know this? Why would they be asking you that?

• 39:56Speaker 03

  They plucked that name, I think, out of my brain somehow. They, they just, because I didn't, I looked for De Vilbus. There was no De Vilbus anywhere in Rhode Island. I looked through archives. I looked through phone books, you know, this is what I do. This is my thing. So I did the research. There was nobody there. Didn't exist. There was no De Vilbus. They plucked that name out of nowhere. And said, is De Vilbus here? And you know, no, and I got frustrated and they left. That frustration blocked me from being clear eyed, clear thinking to follow these people and say, what the hell is going on here? So that was just the first part of the Men in Black episode. Because then you have to fast forward like 10 years later. And I'm in Singapore.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  And I was based in Malaysia. I was based in Kuala Lumpur for a long time. But I had offices in Singapore and I would, I would fly back and forth. I think I just come from the States. And I'm dragging through the airport. I have my carry on with me. It's a long flight from the States to Singapore. And somebody taps me on the shoulder. Now, this is Asia, Southeast Asia. It's not common. Nobody taps you on the shoulder here. It's not like the Bronx. So that's strange. She would tap me on the shoulder. I turned around. And it's the girl, it's the woman from, from the station wagon.

• 41:15Mayim Bialik?

  No.

• 41:16Speaker 03

  And she looks at me and she goes like that.

• 41:19Speaker 03

  Hi, you know, turns around and walks away. Well, this time I got my shit together. I'm going to follow this woman to see where she's going and I'm following and she's not there anymore. Okay. She's nowhere. I mean, it's, it's a big airport. It's Changi Airport, beautiful place. Can't find her. She's gone.

• 41:35Mayim Bialik?

  I would have been like, I'm never going anywhere again that might cause danger. I live in the airport now.

• 41:39Speaker 03

  Which people have done. A very famous case of a guy living in Changi Airport for years. But it was not, there was no hostility in this. I interpreted it hostilely because I'm a private person. I don't want somebody in front of my house taking a picture of me. So I interpreted this from a point of view of hostility. I interpreted her actions there in Rhode Island. Because as she was trying to prevent me from doing something I wanted to do with hostility. But then she shows up and just wants to say, hi. Now, was that being cheeky? Was that being, hi, screw you, you know, why? Why was that even necessary? Or was she just saying hi? Was she just wanting me to know that, yes, we're still here, we're still around? More than anything else, it's been the trajectory of my life in general.

• 42:25Speaker 03

  That basically is nonsensical. As a kid, as you know, I tried to stay out of the draft going to Vietnam. I was totally against the war. Bobby Kennedy was my hero at the time. All of this was, I was a different kind, you know, it was a different head at the time. And I created a church, long story, people who know me know the story. And but as part of that, I got involved with another church in the Bronx. Uh, which seemed to be a good place as kind of an umbrella organization for my activities and my school friends activities. And it happens to be the church that was involved in the Kennedy assassination, you know, in with Jim Garrison. And I joined that church in 1968. And that was just around the time that Garrison was investigating the weird churches in New Orleans.

• 43:10Speaker 03

  David Ferry, Jack Martin. All these guys were parts of this front. There was basically a front for intelligence activities. And here I am in the headquarters of that front, right? As a kid, 17 years old, 18 years old, having no clue what was going on around me.

• 43:26Mayim Bialik?

  Well, we're very glad that you, you know, um, do not seem to have engaged in the sinister and dark side. But instead, you know, are really kind of part of, um, you know, very special kind of, you know, education and research. And we, we really appreciate it.

• 43:41Speaker 03

  I appreciate you appreciating it. I appreciate that I'm still here to talk about it.

• 43:45Mayim Bialik?

  You know, obviously for the deepest cut sinister forces is terrific, but God's Man in War and this whole, um, this whole series as well, um, really fantastic. Thank you so much for being here. Where, where can people find out more about all of the work that you do?

• 43:59Speaker 03

  My website is peterlevenda.com. Uh, and I'm also sort of active in a way on the usual socials. So, you know, you'll find me on Facebook and Instagram, things like that.

• 44:10Mayim Bialik?

  Thank you so much for your time. We really, really appreciate it.

• 44:12Speaker 03

  Thank you for having me. It's a blast.

• 44:17Mayim Bialik?

  You know, Jonathan, this was one of these conversations where, you know, when I got this book, this thousand plus page book. I was thinking, who is the man who wrote this book and knows all these things? But after talking with him, I kind of understand what all of his work is sort of circling around. The, the collection of these stories, I mean, you know, even starting where our conversation started with Lincoln and Kennedy. It's really fascinating. And at a certain point, if we remove this concept of these are just conspiracy theories. What we're looking at is a set of overlapping circles of information and control of information that we just can't ignore.

• 44:58Jonathan Cohen?

  Call me naive. I did not know all the connections between Lincoln and Kennedy.

• 45:02Mayim Bialik?

  We'll just call you Canadian.

• 45:04Jonathan Cohen?

  That level of detail is terrifying a little bit.

• 45:08Mayim Bialik?

  Even the secretaries, that Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy and that enough is like, what? What are the chances?

• 45:15Jonathan Cohen?

  Theater warehouse, warehouse theater? Come on, you're an expert in. This is justifiable in this way. That is a nice idea, but it's not real.

• 45:26Mayim Bialik?

  Okay. Here's, here's, here's my thing. He kind of went pretty quickly and it was early in the conversation. So I didn't understand completely, but now I'm like putting it all together. He went pretty quickly to like, you know, essentially a consciousness grid of like these things aligned. And there was a way that the universe, but what I would say, and what a skeptic would need to say is what, what was the popularity of the names Kennedy?

• 45:51Jonathan Cohen?

  No.

• 45:52Mayim Bialik?

  What?

• 45:52Jonathan Cohen?

  Come on.

• 45:54Mayim Bialik?

  Okay, let's, let's use an extreme example. Okay. Let's say most people had the name Kennedy at the time that Lincoln was assassinated. It was a hugely popular name and people who had the name Kennedy often were in politics because it was one family. I mean, I don't know what I also wanted to, to lean into that we didn't really get into. And we, we really, we don't do a lot of politics per se here. But I was thinking about the attempted assassinations on Trump, on our current president, right? And I, your eyes just got real big because I'm wondering. You know, not everything fits into the framework that Peter is setting up. I think that the, this notion that

• 46:36Mayim Bialik?

  not every assassination is going to fit into this because also there were other assassinations, other attempts. I wish my father was alive because my father could list all of the presidents in order, backwards and forwards. I don't know why this was a thing that he maintained, but he knew like everything about every president. And so like, he was like, oh, this assassination, there were other assassinations, you know, that might not fit into this narrative. And I think that's where conspiracy theorists, right? Sometimes seem to kind of like pick and choose selectively. But no, the, the other explanation for theater and warehouse is like, I don't really know. I don't mean to be this asshole. I don't know the definition of warehouse in Lincoln's time and Kennedy's time. I just don't like, maybe that's a stretch.

• 47:20Mayim Bialik?

  It could be a little bit of a stretch. I was under the impression that Lee Harvey Oswald shot President Kennedy because he was an isolated mentally ill person who didn't believe in the policies that Kennedy was trying to put forward. That's how I lived my whole life.

• 47:38Jonathan Cohen?

  And now?

• 47:39Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, now I got a whole other story. It involves aliens.

• 47:45Mayim Bialik?

  Literally in the middle of this episode, I was like, "I'm a believer. I believe all of it." No, but I definitely, I had heard like, "Oh, maybe he was framed, maybe he was set up." And of course-

• 47:55Jonathan Cohen?

  But he got the job, like-

• 47:58Mayim Bialik?

  I don't like any of that.

• 47:59Jonathan Cohen?

  He got the job from someone who was like, trying to contact dark, like, I don't know. I still don't understand.

• 48:05Mayim Bialik?

  Look, also, a lot of people may have been contacting dark forces, like, it may not have been, you know, again, like, I don't know if that, in and of itself, is unusual. But even what I knew from Edwin May, from our episode with Edwin May, and even our conversation with John Atack, "Things are not what they seem," right? Like, that's your take-home. "Things are not what they seem, and just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you." And just because something sounds like a conspiracy doesn't mean that it isn't one. I don't know why two women would be four foot six in wool coats, pulling up in a vintage station wagon in front of his house in Florida.

• 48:43Jonathan Cohen?

  I was like, "Are you imagining this stuff?"

• 48:45Mayim Bialik?

  We're taking his account. I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna say that, like, I'm gonna trust him, but that's up to, that's up to us. It's up to you.

• 48:54Jonathan Cohen?

  Before we go, let's touch on Bluebird and some of these crazy experiments. Because I've heard about MKUltra, but like, if you can program someone to that degree,

• 49:09Jonathan Cohen?

  it's a little terrifying.

• 49:10Mayim Bialik?

  Well, no. It's the, it's the, it's the beauty and the miracle of the human brain. I'm thinking of Dr. Raz, Amir Raz, who wrote The Suggestible Brain. The brain is highly suggestible. And all of the things that the brain has evolved to do means that other people can try and do that to your brain, on your behalf. So, the notion that we can have control over our own brains, it's the same thing that someone else can have control over it. It's the same thing. It's the same machinery. It's very redundant. Can it be used for evil? Yes. Can it be used for sinister reasons? Absolutely. Do I expect that to be done by our own government? No.

• 49:53Jonathan Cohen?

  What about our own technology companies?

• 49:55Mayim Bialik?

  Uh, Dr. James Giordano.

• 49:57Jonathan Cohen?

  We spoke about this. The fact that programming and how the pixel rate on our phones could change our anxiety rate. The fact that how the algorithms are weighted to show you what content is prioritized. The amount of suggestibility in our environment, especially because we're consuming huge amounts of digital information all the time, can change our anxiety level, what we believe, how subdued we are versus how angry we are. Are we going to submit to authority versus rebel against it? The level of susceptibility is actually much higher than we think.

• 50:38Mayim Bialik?

  What I think Peter really is very even-handed about is there are people who believe that these sinister forces are non-human intelligence inserting themselves into our lives. And there are other people who believe that if there's non-human intelligence, maybe there's a kindness message, maybe it's not all doom and gloom. I mean, this is a podcast episode that definitely brought up, I think, more questions than answers. But so grateful that we had this conversation.

• 51:10Jonathan Cohen?

  One more connection before we go. As UFO disclosure and more public conversation about other energy forums has increased, the consumption of alcohol has decreased.

• 51:24Mayim Bialik?

  Excuse me?

• 51:26Jonathan Cohen?

  Consumption of alcohol is at an all-time low, historically.

• 51:29Mayim Bialik?

  It's because everyone's smoking weed, Jonathan. They're all smoking weed. Let the aliens come now. Make sure you're subscribed. Check us out on Substack, beallikbreakdown.substack.com, from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time.