Hunter Biden Is Worth -$15,000,000 | Financial Audit

Cash App: Download Cash App Today: https://click.cash.app/ui6m/lpr7iap4 #cashapppod Gusto: Try Gusto for FREE for 3 months at https://gusto.com/ICED Upwork: Post your job free at http://upwork.com/COFFEE and connect with top talent to grow your business. Shopify: Stop waiting for permission to build something. Your next revenue stream starts free at https://shopify.com/ich Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App’s bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. Cash App Visa® Debit Flex Cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC, and The Bancorp Bank, N. A., pursuant to a license from Visa U. S. A. Inc. See terms and conditions for the Sutton prepaid card, Sutton debit flex card, and Bancorp debit flex card. Cash App Green features, Savings, Direct deposit, Round ups, Overdraft coverage and Discounts provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. *𝗖𝗢𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗖𝗧 𝗪𝗜𝗧𝗛 𝗨𝗦* 𝗜𝗚: https://www.instagram.com/icedcoffeehour 𝗝𝗔𝗖𝗞: https://www.instagram.com/jlsselby 𝗚𝗥𝗔𝗛𝗔𝗠: https://www.instagram.com/gpstephan 𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗽𝘀 𝗖𝗵𝗮𝗻𝗻𝗲𝗹: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheIcedCoffeeHourClips 𝗫.𝗰𝗼𝗺: https://x.com/TheICHpodcast 𝗧𝗶𝗸𝗧𝗼𝗸: https://www.tiktok.com/@theicedcoffeehour 𝗦𝗽𝗼𝘁𝗶𝗳𝘆: https://open.spotify.com/show/5c2uoXBQkOjIiCOf60jJj7 𝗔𝗽𝗽𝗹𝗲: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-iced-coffee-hour/id1515070058 For sponsorships or business inquiries reach out to: [email protected] Apply for The Index Membership: https://entertheindex.com/ For Podcast Inquiries, please DM @icedcoffeehour on Instagram! Timestamps: 00:00:00 - The Financial Disaster 00:06:15 - Why Joe Biden Never Owned a Stock 00:13:49 - Sponsor: Cash App 00:15:30 - What Really Runs Washington 00:22:51 - Rating His Finances Out of 10 00:30:24 - Sponsor: Gusto 00:32:06 - Sponsor: Upwork 00:33:27 - What His Art Actually Sells For 00:40:33 - How He Used AI to Write His Next Book 00:46:00 - Will AI Save Us or End The World? 00:51:41 - How Do You Owe $15 Million? 00:58:04 - Sponsor: Shopify 00:59:31 - Starting Over From Zero 01:04:37 - What Really Happened With $Laptop Coin 01:11:43 - Why Hunter Biden Will Talk to Anyone 01:16:04 - Who Actually Made Money? 01:21:50 - The $316 Billion Crypto Glitch 01:26:35 - Reaction To $Laptop Falling 99% 01:32:16 - Personal Debt vs. America's Debt 01:39:26 - The Trump Economy 01:44:23 - Rapid Fire: His First Stock Ever *Some of the links and other products that appear on this video are from companies which Graham Stephan & Jack Selby will earn an affiliate commission or referral bonus. Graham Stephan & Jack Selby are part of an affiliate network and receives compensation for sending traffic to partner sites. The content in this video is accurate as of the posting date. Some of the offers mentioned may no longer be available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration blog, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 0:26Graham Stephan?

  How would you rate your finances? One out of 10?

• 0:28Speaker 02

  Right now?

• 0:28Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 0:29Speaker 02

  A zero.

• 0:30Speaker 03

  Hunter Biden.

• 0:31Graham Stephan?

  Hunter Biden.

• 0:32Speaker 04

  Hunter Biden is now out with a new laptop crypto coin, and it crashed and burnt, losing almost all of its value.

• 0:40Graham Stephan?

  What was going through your mind when you saw it go from 50 to?

• 0:43Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  So the FBI has had physical possession of Hunter Biden's laptop for more than three years. Now, on that laptop is indisputable evidence of crime. Regardless of whether you get indicted or convicted, it can kill you.

• 0:58Jack Selby?

  How much is that debt for fighting those legal battles?

• 1:02Speaker 02

  Like about $15 million. The real power in Washington DC is money. The federal government's power is beyond anything that you can remotely imagine.

• 1:12Speaker 06

  With federal prosecutors in Delaware investigating Hunter Biden and whether he broke federal tax law.

• 1:18Speaker 02

  By the way, this is, we can edit this part out. It's off the record. Are aliens real or are they? We should probably stop the cameras. Okay.

• 1:29Graham Stephan?

  Hunter Biden, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour.

• 1:32Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me.

• 1:33Graham Stephan?

  So I'm very curious, why agreed to do the podcast?

• 1:37Speaker 02

  Oh, I think you're fascinating. I love the guests that you have on. I watch you all the time, and I think you ask really insightful questions. And the truth of the matter is, is that I usually learn something when I'm listening to you.

• 1:49Graham Stephan?

  I really appreciate that, man. What do you have to gain from coming on, though?

• 1:53Speaker 02

  Well, for me, it's an opportunity to talk to people who I think have an enormous amount of influence in a category of listeners that most of the people that are my age and, you know, political persuasion don't necessarily have a chance to talk to. And I know that you guys are equal opportunity in terms of, you know, apolitical and most everything. But I just think that you do a really incredible job of like asking really insightful questions. So, you know, maybe I get to learn something myself. More than anything, that's what it's about.

• 2:29Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. What's the message that you hope viewers could take away from this?

• 2:33Speaker 02

  I think that we're fed, particularly at this moment in time, this algorithm, that we're so divided, that things are so desperate, that we are on the verge of a civil war, so to speak, literally or figuratively. And while all of that may seem true, and I truly believe that our algorithms are not our reality. I think that if people just think about themselves and their own personal lives, and think about their neighbors, and think about the aspirations of their neighbors and their community, the truth is that we all share far more in common than we do have differences with each other.

• 3:13Graham Stephan?

  One of the things that I've noticed, you've done a lot of podcasts recently. You've talked about a lot as well. And when we were doing research for our episode, we didn't want to cover the same things that you've talked about every single time. And I am curious, what is something you wish other people had asked you?

• 3:30Speaker 02

  We kind of always touch this topic of universal pain that everyone experiences, but I don't really ever get to go in depth about it. And I remember on, I did Bill Maher's show, and I like Bill, and but it's a 10-minute format, and it's not a two-hour format, which doesn't lend itself to kind of really kind of in-depth discussions. But I said to him, I said, I don't think we get to talk about issues like grief and addiction and trauma nearly enough. And he goes, I think we talk about it all the time. And in one respect, it's true, is that it's something that gets mentioned, but never really in depth. And I think that's one of the ways that I have been able to connect with people, more than anything, is not,

• 4:13Speaker 02

  they don't associate out with me. Instead, they identify with me because of my experiences. And so, not everybody was addicted to crack cocaine, and not everybody had my experience in terms of that becoming a widely, widely talked about public person. But everybody has a brother that has, you know, so to speak, that has dealt with addiction. Everybody has a loved one. I've never met anyone that hasn't been impacted by it in some way. And with me, there's this piece that because of who my father was, and because of the notoriety that I've received,

• 4:57Speaker 02

  because of negative kind of conspiratorial press about, that involves politics. You would think that the people wouldn't find a connection, but it's the exact opposite. They have found a connection in the way in which I've been, I think, particularly for someone in my position, radically honest about not just my past, but my present.

• 5:19Jack Selby?

  So what do you think is then left out of the conversation about grief and trauma and abuse that should be included?

• 5:27Speaker 02

  The pain is the universal connector. Is, I always, I say this a lot, is that the one thing that a human being is guaranteed to experience in a lifetime, regardless of its length, is pain. It's not love, it's not any other emotion. It is the experience of pain. And that pain can take many forms. Some of it's self-inflicted, some of it is not. And I think that what we don't necessarily talk about is the role of that pain in the way in which people treat each other.

• 6:05Jack Selby?

  You're saying, then, that this pain that everyone is guaranteed to experience is mostly seen as a personal experience. But what you're saying is that it's more interpersonal, that it's more of like a language, like a communication thing that everyone experiences, and that's the thing that we should observe as opposed to pain solely being a personal experience.

• 6:22Speaker 02

  Exactly. Again, it's this whole idea, what the, back to what I originally said, it is a way in which we can identify with each other, not a way in which we identify out from each other. And you are just articulated much better than I have over the course of the last few months. But that's exactly right. Yeah.

• 6:42Graham Stephan?

  So what do you feel like people get wrong about you?

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Oh, I think that they get a lot of things wrong based upon a narrative that has been spun for close to seven years before I started to speak for myself. You know, when my name kind of became ubiquitous, it was by no intention on my part. I had led a relatively private life in a very public family. I came a shy in some ways. Not that I didn't have a lot of opinions and a lot to say, and a lot of experience to talk about things that I cared about. But the truth of the matter is, is that I usually shied away from them. When that happened, you know, I didn't really have an opportunity

• 7:27Speaker 02

  over the course of the last seven years to speak for myself for a couple of reasons. One, if you're under investigation from the Department of Justice, as a former lawyer myself, I can tell you is keep your mouth shut and follow the direction of your attorneys, and don't make matters worse. That was part of the reason. And the second part of the reason is, is that I have a very, very close relationship with my dad, but I never, ever involve my dad in myself, in my father's politics and policy in office. Meaning that I didn't have any intention of further complicating a very, very difficult job

• 8:10Speaker 02

  of the administration in executing on their plan and their agenda, which is very different than mine.

• 8:20Graham Stephan?

  Now, speaking of your dad, he had previously said, because we're mostly a finance podcast at the end of the day. We talk about economics and personal finances. Your dad previously said that he vowed to never own a stock. I was curious if those financial beliefs.

• 8:37Graham Stephan?

  Transfer it over to you as well.

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Oh, no. And let me explain why he said that.

• 8:42Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  He got elected to the United States Senate at the age of 29 in 1972. And the story of the day at that time, during that election, it was pre Watergate, but it was post Spiro Agnew, who had resigned as Vice President. And the reason that he had resigned had to do with, I forget whether it was stock manipulation or, you know, he took stock from a donor and then basically he was getting paid off. And, and so during that campaign, he made a commitment that he would never own a stock or a bond for this reason, is that it is, a United States Senator has a, an almost

• 9:27Speaker 02

  unlimited ability to impact policy that, that affects every company in the world. And, um, excuse me, at least every company in the United States, every, and particularly every publicly traded company. And so he had made a commitment, uh, not to own a stock or a bond to never have that conflict of interest. And he kept that commitment. Now, of course, you know, he has a retirement account and he has his, you know, Senate pension and his vice presidential and presidential pension. And I'm sure those pensions are, you know, disassociated from him, invested into the market and whatever way that retirement funds are. But he never has personally, he kept that commitment the entire time.

• 10:12Speaker 02

  Sometimes I get a little angry that he did that.

• 10:18Jack Selby?

  And that's what we're trying to promote to the viewer is that it's not a bad thing.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  No, by the way, not, not at all. And that's 100% not even remotely a bad thing. But it is an inherent conflict of interest.

• 10:31Jack Selby?

  Yes.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  For somebody that is serving in Congress, serving in the executive branch, serving as a United States Senator in the House of Representatives. And if people that have that kind of authority cannot set aside and put in like blind trust, truly, truly blind trust while they serve, then I don't think that they should be serving.

• 10:51Jack Selby?

  I agree with you. I think that it was actually an incredibly noble position to take to not own any stock. However, he could have got, in my opinion, the exact same effect, maybe 95% of that effect, saying, I'm never going to buy an individual company. I'm only ever going to buy index funds.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, here's another thing about that. Okay. You're absolutely right. Is that the Biden family could have used some financial literacy for, for, for a very long time. And, and the other side of it is this, is my dad never had any money to buy any equity.

• 11:24Jack Selby?

  You don't get paid well as like a Senator.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, in 1972, I think that the salary of a United States Senator was like $46,000. And it went up when, in, I think in the, in the eighties, maybe early nineties. And I don't, don't hold me to these exact numbers. But, you know, I think over the course of the 36 years that he served, I think that his probably average salary was about $175,000 a year. Maybe not even, uh, actually, if you include the, the, those earlier years in the seventies and early eighties. And I, and I know, and people are not going to believe me about this, because you think United States Senator, oh, they're all rich. Well, 90% of them that come into the United States Senate come in already rich because of the fact that it is not a place to go to make money.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  If you're not making money on the side. And he was not making money on the side. And there's very, very few ways to do that today in, in Congress, other than by buying individual stocks and trading in, in the way that we see many of the members of Congress, both Democrats and Republicans have done. And it's been made public over the course of the last several years. And remember, this is a recurring thing that comes up and then they don't do anything. But it comes up and people get pissed off.

• 12:45Graham Stephan?

  Why don't they do anything?

• 12:46Speaker 02

  Because.

• 12:47Jack Selby?

  Take a guess who's benefiting from it.

• 12:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:49Jack Selby?

  Right? And who's actually going to do anything to change, who has the power to change it?

• 12:52Graham Stephan?

  So the people who have the power to change it don't want to change it, basically.

• 12:55Jack Selby?

  Yeah. Cause they're the only people that benefit and they benefit enormously from it.

• 12:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. And by the way, not, just remember who else benefits from it is the.

• 13:03Jack Selby?

  The companies.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. The people, look, the real power in Washington DC is, is, is money. And it, and it's not the way most people think. It's not by making a individual Congressperson, you know, a millionaire or, you know, uh, it's not a personal financial benefit, the vast majority of people who go serve in the Senate or the, or the House of Representatives. But the real power is, is the way in which moneyed interests are able to impact policy that is important to them. And so if you're the pharmaceutical industry, you spend hundreds of millions of dollars.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  And what you do is you have, uh, you know, targeted ad campaigns in certain districts and you are able to give money to PACs that, that support Congress people, you know, uh, that support whatever position that you want them to take. The, the amount of money is staggering. And after the Supreme Court decision, basically there's unlimited money in, in politics now.

• 14:10Graham Stephan?

  What is the biggest deal that you've seen behind closed doors? Now, we've been talking about insane amounts of money in politics, but for most of us, every dollar matters. And when you do spend your money, it is so important that you're able to make the most of it.

• 14:25Jack Selby?

  And that's where our partner Cash App comes in. With the Cash App card, your everyday spending can unlock actual benefits, including personalized cash back offers at places you already like to shop.

• 14:34Graham Stephan?

  And those benefits could go even further with the new Cash App Green status. Cash App does more than you think when it comes to having your back and making sure your money stays your money. Cash App just released a new status program for the way people actually spend called Cash App Green.

• 14:48Jack Selby?

  And now when you spend at least $500 a month with the Cash App card, you earn green status, which unlocks benefits like up to $200 of free overdraft coverage. If you overdraft unexpectedly, there are no hidden fees. You also unlock higher borrow limits and custom personalized cash back offers every Friday at places you love to shop.

• 15:05Graham Stephan?

  Turn every day into status with Cash App Green. Download Cash App today or visit cash.app to learn more about this and other financial benefits.

• 15:14Jack Selby?

  New Cash App customers can earn $10 if they use code CASHAPP10 in their profile at signup and send $5 to a friend within 14 days. Terms apply.

• 15:23Graham Stephan?

  Download Cash App today and make your money work for you. Link in bio.

• 15:27Jack Selby?

  Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's bank partners, prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, member FDIC. Cash App Visa Debit Flex Cards issued by Sutton Bank, member FDIC. And the Bancorp Bank, N.A. Pursuant to a license from Visa USA, Inc. See terms and conditions for the Sutton Prepaid Card, Sutton Debit Flex Card and Bancorp Debit Flex Card. Cash App Green features savings, direct deposit, roundups, overdraft coverage and discounts provided by Cash App, a Block Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures.

• 15:55Graham Stephan?

  What is the biggest deal that you've seen behind closed doors?

• 15:59Speaker 02

  In, I think it was 2022, 2023, there was a whistleblower. And she was a senior executive and she brought a raft of information, of documents and documentation from internal documentation from Meta. She, the story that she came to tell is this, is that beginning in 2013, when Instagram went live and to like 2017, the rate of, among teenage girls between the ages of 13 and 17 grew exponentially. Likewise, the rate of teenage girls in that age category that were admitted to the hospital for extreme self-harm even grew even at a greater pace than that. Okay?

• 16:44Speaker 02

  And Meta questioned, because many doctors and others did, and families complained directly to Facebook and their, their product Instagram, is that it was, that they were the cause, that the algorithms being fed to these girls were leading to self-harm, extreme self-harm. And, uh, and so they did a internal study and they found that yes, there was a direct causal connection between the algorithms that many of these girls were being fed or ubiquitously across the platform for teenage girls. And it was having an extreme negative impact on the health and wellness of our, our, our children.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  And you know what they did? Even after testifying in Congress, they did absolutely nothing. They did nothing. Because at the same time, what it meant is that they would have to make a decision about whether or not this extremely valuable, valuable algorithm was something that, and the revenue stream from it was something that they wanted to give up. Now think about this, in what world are we living that the lives, literal lives of our daughters? Are worth anything that any company's bottom line or fiduciary responsibility to their

• 18:10Speaker 02

  stockholders or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And to me, I don't think that there's any greater example of how money equals power. Because by the way, it was during my dad's administration, there were Democrats that did nothing about it as well as Republicans. And to me, I just can't think of any example that is just more direct about how money impacts our health by virtue of what decisions people in Congress and in Washington DC that are in elected office,

• 18:49Speaker 02

  both in the executive and the legislative make about the lives of our children.

• 18:56Graham Stephan?

  So given what you've seen, what is your relationship to money?

• 19:00Speaker 02

  I want to have a better relationship with money. And I really mean that is that I got married very young and I didn't have any family money. And I'd ever had anyone in, in, in my life in which money was the, money was a central part of like a dinner table conversation, you know? I always remember my first semester tuition at Georgetown University was, I think, $7,500. And we had to deliver it on the day that I came to campus, unlike most people had already sent their checks in. And because he had to mortgage a piece of, you know, refinance

• 19:40Speaker 02

  a piece of the, our house, the property, to be able to come up with that. And that's kind of the way that, that my brother and I were raised. And the other side of it too, is that money for money's sake was never something that was celebrated in my family. It wasn't looked down upon. I didn't have kind of like a negative view of people that were business people. And, but the higher calling was always something what is, you know, what, what's your purpose? And, and revolved around the idea of service more than anything.

• 20:16Graham Stephan?

  Do you wish that you would have been better with money in terms of your education and buying stocks and saving a certain percentage?

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Oh, 100%. After Georgetown, I had about $60,000 in student loan debt. And I went to do a thing called the Jesuit Volunteer Corps, which was like the domestic peace corps, where you make $80 a month, literally, and you pull your money and you live with other volunteers. And I ran an emergency service center in this neighborhood in Portland, where I'd help families that couldn't get their lights turned on, or their utilities were off in the winter. And I would advocate for them and, and help them get those things back up so that they could have, you know, that heat in the, you know, in the middle of winter. And then I got married and had, and had Naomi, my first child. And then I got in, in law school. And I took out,

• 21:07Speaker 02

  I think at the time, it was all in for law school when I graduated from Yale about.

• 21:16Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  Another $130,000, $120,000 for that. Immediately out, I was a young father, a Yale Law graduate, with no savings and about, you know, $165,000 in debt. And the only reason I bring that up is because you, you asked. And, but also is, is that I look today and, and even with that, I was able, within a year of graduating law school, able to go buy a house and fix it up myself. And that's what we did. And I then flipped that house and I was able to do that

• 22:21Speaker 02

  two more times. And that's the way that I had put a little money away in terms of, and having savings and giving myself a little bit of a cushion to be able to send three daughters to, you know, to, to school and, and, you know, and have a house and ultimately in Washington DC for 20 years.

• 22:40Graham Stephan?

  What's been your best investment?

• 22:42Speaker 02

  Real estate. Yeah. And so, one of the things that my brother and I did with my dad is that we would literally his, we just used to love doing this. And Delaware has these beautiful, beautiful old homes, just incredible, like classic architecture in the Brandywood River Valley, and really, really neat. And old, all of the DuPont family had these amazing estates and, and really cool homes. But, you know, a lot of them were fixer-uppers. So he did that when, when we were young, after my mom died, we bought this old DuPont estate that they were going to tear down. And then we spent the next 20 years, you know, working

• 23:22Speaker 02

  on it. And so I had, and I loved to do that with my dad and my brother. And, you know, the, the joke was if you came over to our house, all of our friends, is that you expect to be put to work for at least, at least half the time that you were there. There was always a project that was going on.

• 23:43Graham Stephan?

  How would you rate your finances? One out of 10?

• 23:45Speaker 02

  A zero.

• 23:48Graham Stephan?

  What makes it a zero?

• 23:49Speaker 02

  When I, when I got out of law school, I went to work at a, at a bank as, as an attorney. And then in their, in their executive program, to become a banker also. And, and I left there as a senior executive vice president and had done very well. And I went to work in DC. And I went to work for a guy named Bill Daley at the Department of Commerce, where I wanted specifically to understand this new thing called the internet. And a lot of my friends were, were building online companies. And, and so I became the executive director of,

• 24:32Speaker 02

  we used to call it e-commerce. And this is like 1999, 2000. And I got a really incredible view into what was coming next in terms of new technology, and particularly as related to at the time being called e-commerce and the internet. And then, you know, the crash came then in 2000. And what I had intended to do was go up, open up a law firm to, to focus on e-commerce, e-commerce policy, and also the, the, the new issue, which I thought was going to be the most important issue going into the early 2000s was privacy. The

• 25:14Speaker 02

  way in which people's personally identifiable information was being shared and collected as data without their knowledge, or with opt-in processes in so many different ways in which the internet was collecting our information. And then the, the bubble happened. And so all of those friends of mine that were worth, not all, but a lot of my friends who were worth millions and millions of dollars, who needed that type of advice from, from somebody who was kind of on the cutting edge of understanding it, no longer had, had companies to pay any legal bills. And I had a friend who was a Jesuit priest that I, when I was at Georgetown, was a mentor of mine. He suggested that I talked to the president at the time

• 25:59Speaker 02

  of St. Jose University, which is one of many incredible institutions, Jesuit universities. And they needed help with potentially securing federal dollars to do a program of sending their PhD education students into the, the toughest neighborhoods in Philadelphia to provide for support and help. And so I helped him do that. And then he recommended me to a friend who had Scranton University. And then he recommended me to that, that another priest, Jesuit priest to his president of the university. And I worked at Regis and I ended up, that became my business. The whole point being, is I built a really incredible

• 26:39Speaker 02

  business around that. And then when Barack Obama and chose my father to be vice president, what I did, because I thought that there was potentially a, a conflict of interest of me looking towards securing dollars within the federal budget for, even though it was for like a mobile dental clinic in, in Detroit, for Detroit Mercy, where there was no dentist office, or even if it was all of these kind of like, great programs.

• 27:10Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  It's still, I, I.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  Unilaterally and volunteered to give up that business, which was really hard for me to do.

• 27:20Jack Selby?

  Was it making money?

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. From at that time for me, I represented probably over 17 Jesuit universities.

• 27:28Graham Stephan?

  Could you have sold that business if it was doing well? And it's like, sell it, get a lump sum for that index.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  No, because it was all based upon my personal relationship with this network of Jesuit presidents and, and what I was able to do for them in particular. And

• 27:42Jack Selby?

  Were you making like six figures, a million dollars? Like it was

• 27:46Speaker 02

  I forget what the exact number was, but it was enough for me to be able to pay for my girls to go to private school in Washington DC and own a home and, and, and have two cars and not have any debt at that.

• 27:57Jack Selby?

  Were you investing?

• 27:59Speaker 02

  Not, not in the way that I should have been. No, absolutely not.

• 28:03Jack Selby?

  What were you investing in?

• 28:05Speaker 02

  No, no, I mean, like, not because I was investing in other things. I wasn't investing in a, I had a friend who became my partner and he did a really great job of making certain that I was being responsible, frugal with, with my money. Yeah.

• 28:22Jack Selby?

  So he was monitoring your budget and investing extra funds or just kind of making sure that you don't get behind.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  But again, not into the market. I didn't have any understanding of, or I didn't feel, feel like I had any understanding. But, you know, in terms of a 401k, retirement fund, all, you know, 529s, all of the things that you would, would do responsibly without being, being a risk taker in any way. Yeah.

• 28:51Jack Selby?

  When in your life were you working your hardest?

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Right now.

• 28:55Jack Selby?

  Right now is harder than when you were representing these different colleges.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, because right now I basically have four different jobs. You know, the, the, the common refrain from people, the trolls online is get a real job. Like, so right now I am a principal at a recovery center here in Los Angeles called Peak Path Health. And the, my responsibility is to stand up a foundation, the Peak Path Health Foundation, for the purposes of creating a free aftercare and availability for free aftercare and advice for people that don't have the money to go anywhere after they've done 30 days, if they were lucky enough to get those 30 days. I think it's the most significant, I mean, most important gap in the healthcare system as it relates to recovery.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  People do their 30 days, they have nowhere to go. They have oftentimes where they do have to go is not only dangerous, it almost ensures relapse. And that's why I believe that you have the level of recidivism or relapse in people coming out of recovery. And so it's something that is near and dear to my heart, but that's one of the jobs I have. I also work with an organization called Basta Universal and they are 501(c)(3) and they are a tenants rights and homeless prevention organization here in, in Los Angeles.

• 30:14Jack Selby?

  That's Graham's favorite.

• 30:15Graham Stephan?

  Oh, man.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:18Jack Selby?

  Well, no, he, he's had some problems with rental properties here in Los Angeles.

• 30:22Graham Stephan?

  Oh, gosh. I, so I had a house in Santa Monica and the homeless was a huge, huge issue.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, okay.

• 30:30Graham Stephan?

  I mean, well, that was massive and it, and it got so bad, ended up selling the house. Not because of the homeless people specifically, but I mean, that didn't help.

• 30:41Speaker 02

  Doesn't even remotely help. I mean, the 10 cities that came up in, in Venice when I lived there and, and the way in which, I mean, anyway, those are two that are like full-time jobs in, in and of themselves. And then I'm an artist.

• 30:55Jack Selby?

  As we can see.

• 30:56Graham Stephan?

  Yes.

• 30:56Jack Selby?

  Guys, these two pieces of art that you can see behind Hunter and behind us, this is

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:01Jack Selby?

  He brought these to show them off and let me tell you, they are impressive.

• 31:04Graham Stephan?

  I am a huge fan of your art.

• 31:05Speaker 02

  No, thank you.

• 31:06Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. I really, really like it. And I am curious to take a quick side tangent here. What is it like selling your art and how have your art prices fluctuated over the last few years? But before we go into Hunter's art business, it's funny because when the topic of money comes up, we always want to know the interesting stuff, like how much it costs, how much they made, how much profit there is. But we rarely talk about all the details behind the scenes because as a business begins to grow, so does the amount that you need to keep track of.

• 31:36Jack Selby?

  Bingo, Graham. And eventually you realize that making money is only one aspect of running a business. There's this whole other side that no one even thinks about until they have to deal with it, which is exactly where our partner Gusto comes in.

• 31:47Graham Stephan?

  For those unaware, Gusto is an online payroll and benefit software built for small businesses. It is all-in-one, remote-friendly and incredibly easy to use. So you could pay, hire, onboard and support your team from anywhere.

• 32:00Jack Selby?

  It handles literally everything from payroll, tax filing, direct deposits, health benefits, 401k, workers comp, all of the stuff that I do not want to think about.

• 32:07Graham Stephan?

  On top of that, if you ever hit a tough HR situation, you get direct access to certified HR experts.

• 32:14Jack Selby?

  Plus, switching is super easy too. All you have to do is transfer over your existing data and you are up and running fast.

• 32:19Graham Stephan?

  No joke, you won't pay a single cent until you run your first payroll. After that, it's one flat monthly price for unlimited payroll runs, no hidden fees.

• 32:28Jack Selby?

  This year, we actually hired our first ever full-time editor and we used Gusto to set up everything. It was genuinely easy and I did not crash out. It's no wonder that Gusto is ranked number one on G2's highest satisfaction products list for 2026 and over 500,000 small businesses trust it.

• 32:45Graham Stephan?

  So try Gusto today at G U S T O dot com slash I C E D and get three months free when you run your first payroll. It's three months of free payroll at G U S T O dot com slash I C E D.

• 32:58Jack Selby?

  One more time, that is G U S T O dot com slash I C E D, or just click the link down below in the description.

• 33:04Graham Stephan?

  So now that you've got the backend of your business handled, finding the people to actually help your business grow is what comes next. So whether you need an editor, a designer, a developer, or someone to help with a very specific skillset, that's where our partner Upwork comes in.

• 33:17Jack Selby?

  Upwork is where businesses find highly skilled freelance professionals for specialized work, from software development and AI implementation to marketing, design and business operations.

• 33:26Graham Stephan?

  You could browse profiles, review past work and get help scoping the role. So you know exactly what you're getting before you commit to anyone.

• 33:33Jack Selby?

  With Business Plus, you can access the top 1% of talent on Upwork. AI-powered shortlisting delivers a curated shortlist of top freelancers matched to your goals in under six hours, no endless searching required.

• 33:44Graham Stephan?

  Plus contracts and payments all live in one place. So you're not chasing down invoices while simultaneously trying to run the company.

• 33:52Jack Selby?

  I've personally used Upwork a ton and it genuinely makes the entire process easier. Signing up is free and posting a job takes minutes. If you're looking for talent and you're not posting on Upwork, what are you doing?

• 34:02Graham Stephan?

  On top of that, over 170,000 freelancers on the platform hold a five-star rating. So you're hiring someone with a verified track record. Visit upwork.com right now and post your job for free.

• 34:13Jack Selby?

  That is upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. Once again, U P W O R K dot com, upwork.com, or just click the link down below in the description.

• 34:23Graham Stephan?

  What is it like selling your art and how have your art prices fluctuated over the last few years?

• 34:29Speaker 02

  My prices have never fluctuated. My prices are, are a reflection of the, of the market. And so I've never set a price for a painting myself. I've always let like a third-party independent player do that.

• 34:43Jack Selby?

  See, when I was going on your website, hunterbiden.com, if you want to look at the art, I, not a paid promotion, I saw each piece of art and then I clicked on it. It said like inquire about the price. And I'm like, this is exactly how very, very, very expensive and luxury things kind of market things. Like they don't tell you the price.

• 35:03Graham Stephan?

  I always thought, because I've inquired on a few pieces and not, not your pieces specifically, just in general. And I always wondered, it's like, do they just Google you and they're like, oh,

• 35:11Jack Selby?

  What's his net worth?

• 35:12Graham Stephan?

  Let's just say it's like, oh, it's Jeff Bezos. Yeah, the price is like a million dollars. But if, you know, Jack over here inquires like

• 35:19Jack Selby?

  50 cents.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  So here's how it originally worked with my art. Okay. So what happened was, is that I've been an artist my whole life. I've never, I hadn't sold my art. I hadn't shown in a gallery. But before my dad was even won the nomination, I met a gallerist in New York just by chance, who came to my house in California with a mutual friend. And he looked at my art and he goes, hey, have you ever thought about showing your art? And I said, yeah, I mean, it's like a dream of mine, but no. And he said, well, let's keep talking. And we, when we talked and talked and he said, let's plan a, a gallery show. Remember, this before he lost Iowa, lost New Hampshire, lost Nevada.

• 36:04Speaker 02

  This was not anything remotely political. And when I joined, when I, when I agreed to be represented by this gallery in New York. So when I had the show, however, what ended up happening was, is that the New York Post kind of set me up. And I really mean this, they went to somebody, an anonymous gallerist in midtown Manhattan. They said, how much is Hunter Biden's art worth? And he said anywhere from a hundred thousand dollars a piece to $500,000 a piece. And I mean, I was like, all right, like that's great. Like, and I called George and he kind of laughed and he goes, and the, the gallerist at the time, and he laughed and he said, well, you know, it's nice for people to believe that, but you know, like it's not, you know,

• 36:49Speaker 02

  as, as a first-time exhibiting artist, I mean, the prices in anybody's estimation of what I've been able to sell my art for is, are really great. And I've been able to maintain a serious price that does not make it just an inexpensive commodity.

• 37:05Jack Selby?

  No.

• 37:06Speaker 02

  However, no piece of art that I've ever sold has been close to what the New York Post said. And so what they did then, however, is George, then this, my gallerist was asked by people in the press, well, how much is Hunter's art for? And he pointed to, to that article. And so then it was Hunter Biden was selling his art while his dad was president of the United States for $500,000 a piece. Now, I can tell you that's not true. And the reason I can tell you that's not true is because they had an entire impeachment hearing over it. They subpoenaed every person that ever bought a piece of art from me and including the gallerist and people that just attended the show, all of whom had to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees

• 37:48Speaker 02

  to testify under oath that it had nothing to do with anything and how much they bought each painting for. And then they made all of that public. So you can go read it all online in the, you know, House Oversight Committee, like which is mixed in with like, yeah.

• 38:02Graham Stephan?

  Let me ask you this hypothetically, if you were selling for 500,000 a piece, what's wrong with that?

• 38:08Speaker 02

  Nothing. And then that's exactly the point is this, is that Number one, certainly nothing wrong with it now. Number two, as long as you're transparent about it and that I can show that I'm not selling to a Russian oligarch. Like, take the story today that's out as it relates to John Junior. Is that a Russian oligarch came in that he's known for maybe a couple of years. He gets remarried and this Russian oligarch, who's close to Putin, paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in costs for his wedding. Okay, now, I think that it's kind of a legitimate question to say, what is this person that's in 62 pictures with Putin and is sanctioned by the Ukrainian government?

• 38:50Speaker 02

  And doing, paying for the president's son's second wedding on a island? And like, what's that all about? And so with me, I made it clear is that anybody that bought my art is that I would not sell to anyone outside of the United States. I would make it all transparent and I would make it all available to anybody. And they even made a rule while my dad was president, that it would be anonymous to me, which made it almost impossible in many ways. Like, who wants to buy a piece of art and never be known to the artist that they're buying the piece of art? But that was the case and there's nothing wrong with it. Now, my dad's no longer president. Nobody in my family has any power over anything as it relates to elected office in any way.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  I'm an artist, I sell my art, I sell it for the price that the market will support.

• 39:39Jack Selby?

  What's the most you've sold a piece of art for?

• 39:41Speaker 02

  I think the highest price was 85,000. Yeah, well, by the way, which through the gallery, which I got 50%, a little under 50% of. So when you sell through a gallery, they take 50%.

• 39:52Graham Stephan?

  I was curious, are you allowed to say who the coolest person is who bought your art?

• 39:58Speaker 02

  I can tell you the coolest person who has a piece of my art is

• 40:02Graham Stephan?

  Trump.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  No.

• 40:07Jack Selby?

  That would've been pretty cool, yeah.

• 40:09Speaker 02

  Well, there's the coolest person and the most important person. The most important person that has a number of pieces of art are my mom. I gifted her for Christmas, these beautiful flowers with alcohol ink on aluminum sheet that I knew she would love. And so she put them up in the White House in the residence, which is really, really cool. And now they're at home with her. But I have, I just gave, I just did an interview with somebody who, who, not just because of his work and film, but because of the person that he has been in public life. Has been someone that I truly, truly admire, it was Martin Sheen. And he came to do a, to interview me.

• 40:53Graham Stephan?

  Wow.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  And I really, really just love him and his wife Janet. And we have a lot of shared kind of understanding in terms of addiction and families and things like that. And I gave him a painting that meant a lot to me that I had painted, which was based upon the Book of Kells, which is an ancient Irish text of the Bible that was created by Irish monks a long, long, long time ago, that's at Trinity College right now, a couple others. But mainly that I've gifted to my friends, yeah.

• 41:25Jack Selby?

  So what's the fourth job then?

• 41:27Speaker 02

  The fourth job is writing. You know, I wrote one book, I mean, it was released in 2021 and I have been writing on Substack now. And it's a full-time job. I have two books that I've written that I'm releasing on Substack right now that are, one is kind of the continuation of the original memoir, Beautiful Things. And then another one is a, is an accounting of what happened in the rooms that I wasn't in. Kind of the conspiracy to dehumanize me and impact our politics. And I'd done an enormous amount of research and investigation into that over the course of the seven years. One of the things about it that was so incredible though is this, is that I was able to write

• 42:09Speaker 02

  the other book, which is an incredibly cathartic experience because just from, literally, I could tell the story of what happened to me when, you know, how I felt about it, the internal emotions and reactions to events that were occurring to me and as they occurred to me. The other one was like, hey, like hundreds of thousands of pages of documents and investigative work. And Senate, you know, Intelligence Committee declassified information and loads and loads of press, of reporting on it. It was just like trying to get it all in one place. And which I've been fascinated watching some of the people that are experts with you guys is AI.

• 42:53Speaker 02

  I was able to use AI to feed in literally thousands of pages of documents to, number one, literally give me a glossary of names of the people. And concurrent timelines and like mind maps of, you know, who was connected to who. Which allowed me then to write that second book with a, you know, with all the footnotes and everything that I would do.

• 43:16Jack Selby?

  So here's a really good way to digest a ton of research. If you open up Claude, you create a project. This is one of the ways that I researched you for this podcast. I listened to quite a few of your podcasts you'd been on. I didn't listen to all of them because there's probably 25 plus in the past six months or so, or maybe a year. And so I downloaded the transcript for every single one of the podcasts. And then I saved it as a PDF and then uploaded it to the context of the Claude project. And then I asked, how many times were these things covered in the podcast? And there were certain things like the laptop, which was covered in, you know, it said 20 of the 20 podcast samples I provided. There were other things that were, you know, Burisma that were covered, you know, 18 out of 20 times. And then it also gave me a list of things that weren't covered in any of the podcasts that you did.

• 44:01Jack Selby?

  And this was all done in like 15 minutes of just downloading transcripts and then uploading as context. And then it's able to look through

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Insane.

• 44:09Jack Selby?

  20 plus, probably 30 plus hours of content and know perfect answers immediately.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  It's incredible. It's truly, truly incredible. And I love people that are transparent about how they are using it. Because the beauty of the ability for, like, for instance, I came in here, it's just you two. And so everybody knows, there's not a team of people setting up a production and lighting and, and like has like notebooks and by the way, I've been to podcasts where that's the case. There, where there's at least 10 or 15 people that are in the background doing things. The ability for you to do all your own research, to be able to, you know, get yourselves over here, to set up, to be able to do it, to,

• 44:58Speaker 02

  to agree with each other, what the, and do it as often. I'm assuming that I'm not the only person that you use that technique to research, right? It's just, it's truly incredible, the productivity.

• 45:12Jack Selby?

  It speeds us up.

• 45:13Speaker 02

  If you're transparent about it in a way that, but which, by the way, so there's this whole debate on Substack right now. Is they put in one of those AI detection tools for everybody. And number one, a lot of the authors are saying, this is total bullshit. Like, I'll put in a piece that I wrote in 1996 and, and this AI detection tool will come up and say, this is a, you know, this is 75% AI. And the reason is, is because AI trained itself off the piece that that person wrote. And so the whole thing is a little wonky still anyway. But here's what I feel like.

• 45:52Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up require compatibility and availability varies, 18 plus.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  Yes, I know some of the books that I think that are one of, some of the greatest, for instance, works of long-form journalism, like Bob Woodward's books. And Bob Woodward is obviously an amazing, one of the Hall of Fame investigative reporters that we've ever had, right? Well, I know Bob Woodward works with a team of researchers and he always has. He works with a team of other writers that, that collected information and that go through the 600-page House Oversight Committee report and so forth. Man, you can take that House Oversight Committee report and beat it into Claude

• 47:01Speaker 02

  with 16 other equally dense reports. And if you, if you have the capacity to know what you want and what you're looking for, and how to, and how to organize it, you can do incredible things, really, truly incredible things.

• 47:18Graham Stephan?

  What do you think about some of the safety issues about AI?

• 47:21Speaker 02

  I vacillate between it's all a hoax and I'm, and I'm exaggerating. Like, it's all like, it's all just to, you know, drive, you know,

• 47:32Graham Stephan?

  Regulation.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  No, I mean, it's all just to drive value, like that, you know, this, the end of the world and AI is, you know, because they're trying to juice their IPOs, which they have to do in order to be able to sustain the burn rate that they're going through. I mean, you know that there's a whole strain of thought from legitimate people, that that's what it is. I find that just by my own, which is, which is nothing. I mean, as compared to what I know others have been able to do using AI, is that there's a staggering difference in the way in which human beings are,

• 48:12Speaker 02

  just by the AI that is available today on a retail level can live their lives if they engage with it.

• 48:21Graham Stephan?

  Well, I have a feeling now, what we see is just the tip of the iceberg. Like, what really is going on behind, like, if they make something public, it's a dumbed-down version of like, what's really going on.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  Well, look, man, I don't know many, many people, I mean, what did, did Elon and

• 48:38Graham Stephan?

  Sam Altman?

• 48:39Speaker 02

  Sam came out and they said that, you know, like, yeah, we got a real problem.

• 48:43Graham Stephan?

  We gotta slow down a little bit.

• 48:45Speaker 02

  And Dario is saying, you know, like, yeah, this could be the end of the world. And that viral tweet that went out from that former anthropic and said, it's, you know, a 10% chance. And then you look at some like incredible thinkers. Here's what I think. I think that we are on the verge of the, probably the most significant, not probably, the most significant evolutionary leap in humankind throughout all of history. Because if you think about it, is that if you listen to people like Kurzweil and you read about some of the most important thinkers in this space, is this, if you read superintelligence,

• 49:26Speaker 02

  And literally, no one, no one can tell you what happens next. There's not, it would literally be as the equivalent of a alien spaceship, you know, landing in, you know, the middle of LA. That was so superior in every, almost every respect to us in terms of our capacity to reason and, and effectuate decisions. And everything changes then. And nobody can tell you what that means. Now, I always say, is it, do we have a Star Trek future? Or do we have a Star Wars future?

• 50:07Speaker 02

  And I think that along the way, think of all the amazing, amazing things that we are on the verge of solving right now. According to very smart and I think responsible people, whether it's related to our health, related to longevity, related to cancer research, related to climate change, related to the way in which we produce and distribute energy around the world. Just a, an incredibly utopian potential in our future. And the other side of it is that, you know, it may just kill us all. I guess I'm somewhere in the middle.

• 50:51Jack Selby?

  I would love to know what your thoughts are on the potential age of abundance. And if AI ends up being this amazing thing and the economy is doing great and people's ailments are all cured and, and we have this age of abundance, how you're planning on capturing that in the stock market? Are you going to be investing in AI and like buying different, you know, are you, are you looking into that at all?

• 51:16Speaker 02

  I'm gonna be calling you guys for advice is what I'm gonna be doing.

• 51:18Jack Selby?

  Well, technically it's not financial advice.

• 51:22Jack Selby?

  But for entertainment purposes only, you can make a lot of money, you know?

• 51:26Graham Stephan?

  Chris Camillo really likes Amazon and Robinhood.

• 51:29Jack Selby?

  And Bloom, which I've done well in.

• 51:32Graham Stephan?

  All three.

• 51:32Jack Selby?

  All three, actually.

• 51:33Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, thanks, Chris.

• 51:34Jack Selby?

  Chris Camillo is a guy that we bring on the podcast and he's like a very smart.

• 51:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:38Graham Stephan?

  He's had it on like five times now.

• 51:40Jack Selby?

  Yeah, yeah, he's a part of dumb money and he put me on to a few stocks that have, they've done well. So I appreciate that, Chris.

• 51:46Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, he has a thesis that we're gonna have robot workers and they're gonna take over just about everything and we could create just about anything we want that's gonna bring the price down and effectively make big purchases meaningless because you could just create anything that you want to.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I, I, and by the way.

• 52:05Jack Selby?

  Bring it on.

• 52:05Speaker 02

  Bring it on.

• 52:06Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 52:06Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 52:06Speaker 02

  Because I, I really do mean that is that there's, what's his name? Mo, he was at Google, but he, he makes that point is that I think in order to get there, it is gonna be the dislocation, the, the, the feeling of, of, of not, not, not having control over our future is gonna be, it's gonna be really difficult. It's gonna be a difficult transition process for us to go through. And if they are right, that 95% of employment will be not only unnecessary, but irrelevant

• 52:49Speaker 02

  in a world in which there is AGI, then like, that's gonna be a tough time for people to figure out where, where they fit in the world.

• 52:59Jack Selby?

  I'm curious to know, you've gone on the record and mentioned that you're like 15 or so million dollars in debt.

• 53:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:06Jack Selby?

  How does that affect daily life being 15 million dollars in debt?

• 53:10Speaker 02

  It's staggeringly difficult in, in this way is that the idea that I'm 56 years old and I'm, uh, gonna have to be able to figure out my way out of that. Now, to be fair, is that I hope that I can come to terms with some of the people that I owe, owe money to. I'm, I'm trying in earnest to be able to, to do what I can do to do that. Now, for everybody who's listening, that debt was directly and solely related to my legal bills that I had, that were accrued over the course of four years. None of that debt has anything to do with my addiction or drug use or anything.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  I did not, none of it.

• 53:58Jack Selby?

  How much is that debt?

• 53:59Speaker 02

  Like about 15 million dollars.

• 54:00Jack Selby?

  So every single penny of that is to defend yourself?

• 54:03Graham Stephan?

  How do they keep going like more and more and more? I would just think that for most people, they would stop at like, hey, listen, you know, it's like 500 grand or not, we're gonna stop.

• 54:12Jack Selby?

  Or why couldn't you find someone to represent you for free? I feel like the publicity alone.

• 54:15Speaker 02

  Luckily you guys have not had, no, you know what? They wouldn't. And one, one of the reasons that they, that I did have some people that did and they, they were great to me, really wonderful to me. But if I had owed that, then I would, it would be even more. It's, it's insanely, just think about this, okay? I had a, the, the Department of Justice, Maine Justice, the US Attorney's Office in Delaware, the US Attorney's Office in Los Angeles, the US Attorney's Office in Washington, DC, the US Attorney's Office in Pittsburgh, Crim Tax at, uh, uh, which is a different division within the DOJ, the IRS Investigative, Criminal Investigation Unit and, uh, and

• 55:00Speaker 02

  House Oversight Committee, House Intelligence Committee, Senate Judiciary, House Judiciary. All of those are separate and, uh, work product, you know, workflows in, in a law firm as well as responding to and understanding how to be able to communicate whatever we needed to be able to communicate through the press, through courts and court filings.

• 55:25Jack Selby?

  Could you have gotten a free public defender?

• 55:28Speaker 02

  No, I could not have.

• 55:30Jack Selby?

  So if this happens to the average person?

• 55:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:33Jack Selby?

  What are they expected to do?

• 55:35Speaker 02

  Well, this is why I always say, and I said this before it became my reality, is this.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  The federal government's power is beyond anything that you can remotely imagine. It's like the Ayasor on.

• 55:52Jack Selby?

  When you say the federal government, who?

• 55:54Speaker 02

  I mean, the Department of Justice and all of the agencies that, uh, that are either directly connected to it or that are part of the executive branch. It's incredibly.

• 56:04Jack Selby?

  Is it a specific individual or cohort of people that like give out those instructions and directions? Or is it just like this, you know?

• 56:12Speaker 02

  It's not supposed to be and not just by norm, but in the, the last president of the United States that was instructing his Department of Justice what to do was Richard Nixon and he had to resign because he, he even attempted it in what was called the Friday Night Massacre, which led to him leaving office. We are in a, in a whole new world and we were in a whole new world as it relates to the way in which the executive, the actual president of the United States and the people that surround him in the White House are directing the, uh, the, the internal matters of the Department of Justice. So when I say the, the federal government, I mean, the Department of Justice, the FBI,

• 56:53Speaker 02

  the IRS, that whole panoply of enforcement organizations, including the SEC, the CFTC and all of those different organizations, they need to be separated from politics in the political arm of the executive for the exact reason of it's not intended to be a,

• 57:12Speaker 02

  depended upon the, the whim of a single person. That's called a, that's called a monarchy. It truly, if their gaze falls upon you.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  The process is the thing that regardless of whether you get indicted or convicted, it can kill you. I mean, it can bankrupt you. If you want to mount a defense, it costs, can cost depending upon the, the length and complication of what you're being investigated for can cost hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars to be able to defend.

• 57:51Graham Stephan?

  So why not just declare for bankruptcy?

• 57:53Speaker 02

  Well, I might. And truth of the matter is, is that that may be the only option. And I'm trying to come to terms with, with the, my creditors, which are mainly law firms and, and also a few others in which I have been able to reset some of the, a, a more reasonable and realistic payment plan with them. But, you know, I, I plan on making good on what I'm responsible to make good for.

• 58:17Jack Selby?

  Do you have like any assets now? Or how is it trying to acquire wealth when you're 15 million dollars in debt?

• 58:23Speaker 02

  About, and that's about, and that's a rough number is that, no, I don't. I'm, the only assets I have, I mean, I have this, as Nico would be happy with this, have my Timex.

• 58:33Graham Stephan?

  It's a nice launch, by the way.

• 58:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, by the way, which I love, but my only assets are my paintings that, that I have and, you know, like it's stuff that you accumulate over the course of, but no, I don't have any liquid assets in any way.

• 58:47Graham Stephan?

  How much money are you allowed to make?

• 58:49Speaker 02

  Well, I can make as much money as I possibly can. And that's, and.

• 58:52Graham Stephan?

  So you can still build wealth?

• 58:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh, absolutely. So, you know, I mean, I, I, I hopefully have a, a, what I want is a long and sustainable career in art. And I have, uh, you, you, I'm building some wealth is that anyone that wants to go look at my art that's a legitimate collector and, and really does love art can go to honorbiden.com and look at art. I'm building a subscription platform on Substack and I have two jobs.

• 59:22Jack Selby?

  What's your monthly payment towards this debt? Like, is there a certain amount you have to put away?

• 59:27Graham Stephan?

  Hey, before we go into that, while Hunter's dream is building a bizarre business, I'm sure most of you watching have an idea of your own, something you would like to turn into your own business, but you just haven't gotten around to doing it yet.

• 59:39Jack Selby?

  And unfortunately, that's where most ideas stay in your head, in your notes app, or you just telling yourself that you'll get to it eventually. But now getting started is a lot easier than it used to be.

• 59:47Graham Stephan?

  You don't need a huge team, know how to code, or spend months building a website. Because with our partner Shopify, you could take your idea and start turning it into a real business.

• 59:56Jack Selby?

  Everything that you need to start selling is included and ready to go from day one. You can launch a store in a few simple steps. And their AI site builder and design templates mean it actually looks good without hiring anyone. And when your first customer is ready to pay, Shop Pay is the easiest checkout on the market. So more of them actually complete the purchase.

• 1:00:13Graham Stephan?

  Plus, when they come back, all their details are saved. One tap and they are done.

• 1:00:16Jack Selby?

  I've personally used Shopify a ton because before I worked with Graham, I sat at probably five different Shopify stores because I tried literally everything, drop shipping, you name it. I kept going back to Shopify because I kid you not, there is not even a competitor. If you want to sell stuff online, Shopify is the best way to do it.

• 1:00:32Graham Stephan?

  Not to mention Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide. From leading names like Mattel and Jim Shark to everyday entrepreneurs just getting started.

• 1:00:40Jack Selby?

  So if you're ready to hear the of your first sale today, head over to Shopify.com slash ICH to start your free trial today.

• 1:00:47Graham Stephan?

  It's Shopify.com slash ICH.

• 1:00:49Jack Selby?

  One more time, that is Shopify.com slash ICH, or just click the link down below in the description to get started today. What's your monthly payment towards this debt? Like, is there a certain amount you have to put away?

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, not right now. Is that, so I have not, there has been no judgment against me, so I don't have to. Now, with, with others that, that are a part of that, they have given me the space to be able to renegotiate the terms of paying that back. But with one of them, I'm in litigation right now, and we'll see where that goes.

• 1:01:21Speaker 07

  By the way, this is, we can edit this part out off the record. Are aliens real or are they?

• 1:01:26Speaker 02

  I, we should probably stop the cameras.

• 1:01:29Speaker 07

  Okay, cool.

• 1:01:30Jack Selby?

  We're getting into some tricky territory. So a little more clarity around building wealth while you're in this debt. Are you able to like save money and buy stocks? Are you buying stocks or how are you investing?

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  No, I'm not there yet. And so the truth of the matter is, is that over the past, what has it been? About four months since I initially went back on social media. I've gone on shows. I haven't kind of created my own platform yet, other than my Substack. And, and that builds slow, but it definitely isn't enough money to invest in anything. It pays, it pays the bills right now. And, you know, we lost the ability to go back to our rental home because of the fires out here. And my wife is South African, and so we decided to go over to Cape Town and spend some time with her family, which gave us the ability to have somewhere to stay for a period of time with friends and family there.

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  And the truth is, I fell in love with Cape Town. It's one of the most magnificent places in the world and incredible community of people. But more than anything, it's affordable. It's very, very affordable. And so what we're, what I'm in right now is a complete rebuilding process. Like just a complete rebuilding process. And there isn't, there's not enough wiggle room for, for saving yet. But I'm, I'm trying to build something, you know? I've talked with Andrew Callahan to do maybe a, a show with them. I've talked to a couple of other people about building a platform. And I don't know whether I have it in me to do what, what you guys do 52 weeks out of the year.

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  I mean, it's, it's an enormous amount of, of commitment. And, and I'm, and I am incredibly impressed with it. And it's not that I don't want to make the commitment, but I have to figure out how to, number one, maintain a thing that is part of what helped save my life, which is my art. Is the, the practice of art is not just important to me in the sense of the, for the idea that I could sell paintings. That's the least on the list of why I call myself an artist first before anything else.

• 1:03:45Jack Selby?

  You could have a social media page and monetize it and use it to actually market your art about your art. Like if you had a time lapse of you making a piece and you posted it on social media, I think that actually it would do really well. And then you listed it for sale and it, that was like immediate perfect marketing for that exact piece.

• 1:04:03Graham Stephan?

  I follow so many artists on Instagram. And my favorites are when they have the canvas turned around and it's like a sound and then they slowly.

• 1:04:12Graham Stephan?

  And you see what it is.

• 1:04:13Jack Selby?

  You have to be like a really pretty girl in a skippy.

• 1:04:16Speaker 02

  I always get.

• 1:04:19Speaker 02

  I always get a little annoyed with them. I'm like, just turn it around.

• 1:04:23Speaker 02

  God damn it. But you're right. You know what? You know what I always thought is that one of the reasons why, you remember that show Chef's Table, which I think is still on?

• 1:04:30Jack Selby?

  I haven't seen it.

• 1:04:31Speaker 02

  You ever seen it? It's an amazing, amazing show about cooking. I'm not a cook and I'm not a chef and I, and I'm not a foodie. I enjoy food, but the thing about that show that was so, that, that just made, I mean, you literally end up crying in every episode. Why am I crying about some Argentinean chef talking about, you know, the farm to table process that he goes through? But part of it is, is the way in which they film people in the process of, of their artisanship. You know, like literally washing their hands as they slice or pick or things like that. And, and I've always thought that about art. The content that I most appreciate about art is watching, it's like Bob Ross.

• 1:05:13Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  Like you, you, you used, people love.

• 1:05:16Jack Selby?

  You could have your own Bob Ross show. That, that would be very easy to produce.

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know who does that, that is, that genius is, oh my God, I can't believe I have to up my creatine dose, get my memory back.

• 1:05:29Jack Selby?

  What are you at today?

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  The artist, Troy Cho, David, is it David Cho? The, the artist, he did really, really well for himself because he painted that mural for, for Facebook at the, at the outset.

• 1:05:43Speaker 02

  But, but he's much more than that. He was one of Anthony Bourdain's closest friends, but he's an incredible, incredible artist. And he does a show like that. Now, he's, he's also a performance artist in and of himself, but yeah.

• 1:05:55Graham Stephan?

  I love that. So I'm curious, we have to ask you.

• 1:05:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:59Graham Stephan?

  What was behind laptop? What happened?

• 1:06:04Speaker 02

  Okay, so here's exactly what happened. I set out to build and the whole purpose of doing this was to build a coin, a token that was different in every respect than what every other celebrity token, including Trump token, was built. In which every one of them was built for max extraction. 80% insiders, you know, no lockup or, you know, very limited lockup and just pure extraction from the market. And which everyone has proven to be. And so I build a coin that number one, reversed the tokenomics in which 30% of the coin was to the, on the inside.

• 1:06:46Speaker 02

  And 70% of the coin basically was to develop and create community. 20% airdrop, immediately giveaway, or over the course in two airdrops, give away a total of 20% of the value of the coin. And then this first ever unique element of a token ever done before and was a prediction market was basically embedded into the coin. So for instance, like yesterday, kind of trivial and fun as the Eagles win their season opener. So they won their season opener. That means we burned, I think in this instance, 0.5% of the coin, which raises the value for the rest of the community. And if the Eagles had lost, you would dedicate that amount to charity.

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  So we have a minimum of 5% charity and up, could be up to a maximum, obviously about 35% of charity. But more will probably end up in like the 15% range. And so all of these things, and also it was to troll. It was to troll, which is important to me politically, and particularly with this audience, which I think is

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  not exclusively, but a majority of 18 to kind of 35 year old that are engaged in cryptocurrency or engaged in meme coins. Like I'm not the first meme coin, you know, I'm like the 10 millionth meme coin. But what happened was this, is that on launch day, within the first minutes, the, a global leading market maker who had over 1.5% of the coin for liquidity only deployed $5,000 into the, into the market for liquidity purposes. And so it went from, we launched it $50 million. That was our, that was our, our, our launch price.

• 1:08:36Speaker 02

  It was significantly, I mean, low, 50 million. And, and within three minutes, it went to $316 billion because we only had five, they only put $5,000, 30,000 coins into the liquidity pool, which made it impossible for anybody to execute their trades. And then all the, which we knew is all the bots came in, I think something like 85% of all of the trades in that first moment were, were bots. But it drove the price up to 200 billion and then up to $316 billion market cap, which is larger than the market cap of BlackRock. And then within minutes, it came down to.

• 1:09:16Jack Selby?

  But that's because they had a couple of people put a few thousand dollars in at these high prices because there wasn't enough liquidity to satisfy.

• 1:09:23Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:09:24Jack Selby?

  Like more reasonable price.

• 1:09:25Speaker 02

  And so what is the explanation of which we are trying to get an answer to? Of only putting, they had one, they had a million dollars in cash.

• 1:09:34Jack Selby?

  But why would you create the coin in the first place? Because in my mind, I'm like, that A, sounds like a recipe for disaster. And B, like, good luck explaining that to, to any audience aside from our audience. Like our audience is going to understand.

• 1:09:48Graham Stephan?

  I understand like 5% of what you just said. I don't get it.

• 1:09:52Jack Selby?

  I, I get it and it's defensible, but people won't get it.

• 1:09:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, let me tell you why. Is this, is that I, I read the Internet of Money and from my own experience, when I worked at the UN, US World Food Program.

• 1:10:07Speaker 02

  Believing in digital money, microtransactions and the idea that of the democratization of finance. I truly believe in the crypto community. I believe in that. Okay. And what I thought happened in the last election was just a bastardization of and and a taking advantage of an entire community that is largely apolitical, that is almost in every respect libertarian in the best sense of the word. And I just found that it was an incredibly dynamic way to talk to a new audience. I thought, and I still do think, and I think that that's what we will achieve when, you know, when this evens out, which is not gone in any, in any way. There is still value in the coin and there's still value in the message.

• 1:10:51Speaker 02

  So, one of the things I like that like look of like, oh, like, why would you do this anyway? Well, because like the millions of people that are invested into this economy is that I believed in it too. And I think that I can do it a different way. And I think that I can show that I can do it.

• 1:11:07Graham Stephan?

  From my perspective, it's like I've never seen a meme coin launch successful, ever.

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  Well, number one, that's not necessarily true, but.

• 1:11:16Graham Stephan?

  What's been successful?

• 1:11:18Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, Dogecoin's been successful.

• 1:11:19Graham Stephan?

  But that was never, that was never launched. That was launched as a bit of a joke before meme coins became a thing. And it, that happened organically.

• 1:11:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, but no, that didn't happen organically. There was a launch. Every coin goes through a launch. Okay. Is that what didn't happen organically with us is that we were on the centralized exchanges or had commitments from centralized exchanges 48 hours before that it will alleviate all of this. And after we announced that the coin would be coming out in 48 hours, we got just ravaged on crypto Twitter by whether it was trolls or bots or, you know, actual people. And we lost our, we lost our listings on the centralized exchanges at that time. And so there was 1.5 million tokens available, 1.5%, 15.5 million tokens

• 1:12:11Speaker 02

  in the, in the liquidity pool for this market maker. And instead of deploying, even if they had deployed 20% of it or 10% of it, instead they deployed less than 1% of it and it completely ruined the launch. Now, we have a shot to relaunch and make it meaningful and do exactly what I said. But I, here, here's the other side of it is this. Ultimately, the value of this coin, I get to give away to charity, maybe anywhere from five to, let's say, 20%, depending upon the prediction market aspect of it away. Which even today, under this scenario, over the course of at least two years,

• 1:12:53Speaker 02

  I will get to give away millions of dollars to charity, all dedicated to the recovery in addiction space. What other project could I do that would remotely?

• 1:13:06Graham Stephan?

  I would, I'll tell you.

• 1:13:07Speaker 02

  We turn that to you.

• 1:13:08Graham Stephan?

  I think you create your own podcast.

• 1:13:10Jack Selby?

  Yeah, social media.

• 1:13:11Graham Stephan?

  And because from my perspective, you have just been on this like massive comeback.

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:18Graham Stephan?

  Where I've been seeing you everywhere, clipped everywhere. You've come off really likeable, really just charismatic.

• 1:13:27Jack Selby?

  Humility is the thing that sticks out to me.

• 1:13:29Graham Stephan?

  The fact that you went on Matan Evans.

• 1:13:31Jack Selby?

  And talk about anything.

• 1:13:32Graham Stephan?

  And just rolled with the punches.

• 1:13:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:34Graham Stephan?

  Oh my gosh, like I listened to, I loved the episode.

• 1:13:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:38Graham Stephan?

  And I feel like, man, if you just continue in that trajectory, it's so good.

• 1:13:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:43Graham Stephan?

  And that to me is like, that seems organic.

• 1:13:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:46Graham Stephan?

  That seems like you're having fun. Like you don't have to be here. Like even when you agreed to do that, I'm like, really? That's, I was like, we're, we're telling people, yo, we got, we got Hunter coming. And I was like, no way. That's so cool. So to me, I'm like, oh yeah, just continue doing that.

• 1:14:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, by the way, that's what I'm going to continue to do is this was one, look, I'm taking a swing in ways that I think are, from anybody's perspective are risky. So from your perspective, it's like, I was like, you guys think it's cool and I went on a 10? There is a whole audience out there who is saying, what the did you go on Matan for? Excuse my language. Or, I mean, they are, right? And so there is a whole.

• 1:14:27Graham Stephan?

  That's everyone who goes on Matan is like, yeah, why did you go?

• 1:14:30Jack Selby?

  So much to lose, nothing to gain.

• 1:14:31Speaker 02

  Nothing to gain. And in the same respect, I have a whole audience of people out there that say, why are you going to talk to Tucker Carlson? Traitor. You know, you're a traitor. Why did you talk to Candace Owens? And then there's a whole group of people that say, Channel 5, Andrew Callahan, you know, isn't that the guy that like was filming backyard brawls and, you know, out of his camper van? You know what I mean? Whereas I know it to be very different, maybe because I'm a consumer of it in a, in a, in a, in a way that I think is interesting to me. But also this is who else goes to go talk to those people? And that was the idea of the, the crypto community and the reason to immerse myself.

• 1:15:12Graham Stephan?

  The hard part is that now there is this narrative out there that's like, oh, you were doing all this like promotion to lead up to this like crypto meme coin.

• 1:15:24Jack Selby?

  Cash out.

• 1:15:24Graham Stephan?

  Like the optics of it, it's not the reality necessarily.

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  And I'm going to stay there. And so that's not, it, it, the reality and the truth. And by the way, and sometimes perception becomes reality, but not in the instance of me. What I have found is this, is that I've been kicked in the teeth about 500 times. I shouldn't be here by all accounts, by, and by anybody's estimation. Before I went out on Twitter in May of, of this year, didn't have anything to do with cryptocurrency or any, any of that. I didn't go on Candace Owens show with the intent and idea that that's what, you know, this is all about. This was something that I thought was an opportunity, and I still do, to talk to an entirely different audience. When I talk to somebody that's 40 years old about cryptocurrency or about meme coins,

• 1:16:12Speaker 02

  I mean, their eyes glaze over and they say it's all a grift. When I talk to somebody who's between the age of 18 and 30, it's a very, very, very different thing. Meme culture in and of itself is not something most people that understand, but it is a incredibly powerful culture with, in its, in its own silo that has, I think ripple effects across the board. And so I'm going to try everything that I can. And as long as I do it in an ethical way, as long as I do it in a way that I'm comfortable with. Because one of the other things is this, is that I know me for the first time and, you know, I've gotten to know me in a way and be comfortable and confident in, in, in, in my truth

• 1:16:57Speaker 02

  in a way that most people don't ever have to go through. And being completely and utterly shamed in the, in, on a global scale. And so I agree with you is that it was a risk. I took the risk. I, I'm absolutely certain that this is ultimately, at the end of the day, going to do exactly what I intended it for it to do. And I get to tell that story, but it's going to take a little bit of time.

• 1:17:22Jack Selby?

  So who made money and who lost money so far with Laptop Coin?

• 1:17:28Speaker 02

  Nobody made money. Nobody on the inside has made any money. The, the way that it works is that the, the 30% that is dedicated to what, you know, quote unquote insiders, which is that people who hold equity in the coin cannot touch or their money for at least six months and then invest over a two-year period of time. There's a foundation, there's a liquidity pool, and then there is the pool related to the airdrop and the pool related to the event burn, the prediction market side of it. So nobody on the inside has, has extracted any money from this.

• 1:18:06Jack Selby?

  But what about losing money? Like, did you have any wallets that lost a lot of money on the coin?

• 1:18:11Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:18:11Jack Selby?

  Was it mostly like a couple hundred, few thousand?

• 1:18:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And right now, what we're doing, we're only five days in. So right now, what we're doing, we have two independent reports that are being done. And I'm going to figure out exactly who, I think that, and last I looked, one of the reports came back and 85% of the, of the trading that occurred in that first hour and was any significant change of, of capital in hands happen was, was through bots. And so, and mainly in Asia. But we'll be able to identify every, every single wallet and every single dollar and hopefully do what we can to. To yeah, correct it.

• 1:18:52Jack Selby?

  This may be a very harsh opinion, but I would just like to say that meme coins are exactly like emphasis on meme. Like, for the most part.

• 1:19:01Graham Stephan?

  I mean, you know what you're getting.

• 1:19:02Jack Selby?

  For every part.

• 1:19:03Graham Stephan?

  They're not an investment.

• 1:19:04Jack Selby?

  That too.

• 1:19:05Graham Stephan?

  Right.

• 1:19:05Jack Selby?

  Like, no, it's not even.

• 1:19:06Speaker 02

  Oh, by the way, do not buy my coin is the line that I used when I started out this thing. And it is not an investment in any way. It's like a trading card, literally.

• 1:19:18Jack Selby?

  But if someone doesn't understand that a meme.

• 1:19:22Speaker 02

  Who doesn't understand that? The 90% of the market is a bunch of D gens that are, are literally, you know, addicted to trading. And that's what it is. And it's all about attention. It's who can attain, sustain and maintain attention.

• 1:19:36Graham Stephan?

  But then I'm thinking, like, is that the market you want to go after? It's like D gens who are just trying to like flip a few thousand dollars.

• 1:19:43Jack Selby?

  Educated audience or uneducated and, and hopefully instill the value.

• 1:19:47Speaker 02

  I don't disagree. What I'm saying is this, is that I took a shot and I think that I can still prove my point as it relates to the coin. I think that I can show that it can be done differently. I think that I can show that it can be a tool. I think that it's a tool, just like any hammer. You can use it to build something or you can use it to tear down something. And also I can say this to you is this, I also think it is a way in which you can build community and do well and do good at the same time. If you do it the right way.

• 1:20:15Jack Selby?

  I agree.

• 1:20:15Speaker 02

  That's what I believe.

• 1:20:16Jack Selby?

  And, and the same rule applies to NFTs. NFTs were a tool, but the way that the community used NFTs was somewhat predatory. However, NFTs as an, as a fundamental idea are actually really interesting. They're really interesting and there's a lot of value in that. It's just the way that the community adopted it and expressed that fundamental idea. And it's the exact same.

• 1:20:40Speaker 02

  Parts of the community. And that is exactly the growth phase that all of cryptocurrency is in right now.

• 1:20:45Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:46Speaker 02

  So I hear all of these people say, oh, this is all a sham. This is all a scam. It's like, as if, as if the dollar bill is anything but me. Okay.

• 1:20:55Jack Selby?

  That's a good.

• 1:20:56Speaker 02

  All right. And so, and, and also, you know, like this idea, well, what's, it's a, it's a way for people to operate anonymously in a black market and in a criminal way. Well, as far as I can remember is that no cryptocurrency or, or anyone involved in cryptocurrency was involved in the, the crash of 2008. I don't know of any Lehman Brothers in cryptocurrency right now. I also don't know of any Citibank that has been laundering the money for terrorist organizations for, you know, however long. And I, by the way, allegedly.

• 1:21:28Jack Selby?

  I'm really careful about not getting sued, isn't it?

• 1:21:30Speaker 02

  No, exactly. But I really do mean this in terms of like this idea of the arrogance of fiat currency and the establishment and banking. Cryptocurrency has a future. I am not the evangelist for it, but I am a believer in it. I am a believer in the idea that there's an entire generation of people engaged in an economy that most people my age don't even take a, a second glance at or understand. So you asked me, how do you in the future build wealth in this environment in which you are under, that you have debt? A meme coin is not the answer to that for me. Understanding it, understanding it to the degree and its relationship to, to the, to the current economy and which I've been talking to.

• 1:22:15Speaker 02

  Whether it's you guys or whether it's through a show like Metan or whether it's through, you know, whatever audience is out there. And so, look.

• 1:22:27Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration blog, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 1:22:52Speaker 02

  Is that also, you know, kind of live and learn is one of the things too is this, is that, that we had no optics into, and which you're not supposed to, because you're supposed to be a Chinese wall with the, with the market maker. And, you know, one fuck up, you know, can ruin a day. You know what I mean? And not only ruin a day, but I, now it's my responsibility to make it good. And as long as I'm just radically transparent about it, which I plan to be, and I am being right now as much as I can be in terms of getting the actual information of what happened exactly. And, you know, make good where I can make good, then you know what?

• 1:23:31Speaker 02

  All the other stuff is not even remotely off the table.

• 1:23:34Jack Selby?

  From what I see, it does appear like the best way out is through and with radical transparency, which it does appear that you're providing. So that's really good because, you know, I, I didn't necessar, I didn't think that this was a cash grab from the beginning. I thought, you know, obviously there's, there's a chance that it is. But I tend to believe the people that are willing to sit down in front of us and answer all of the questions with potentially millions of people watching.

• 1:24:01Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:24:02Jack Selby?

  And, and before the podcast, when we ask you, hey, is there anything off limits? You say, nah.

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  Nothing.

• 1:24:06Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:07Speaker 02

  Nothing. Nothing. And I answer every single question that I possibly can. And, and I just know this too.

• 1:24:15Speaker 02

  The coin is stabilized. There is a, an assurance that it is stabilized and that we can actually do what we intended to do with the coin. And, and make good if there was anything to make good about. But to, but it all came down to that one market maker, one decision. And it was hard not to see how it was almost not intentional. And I'm not saying that it was, it was gross negligence.

• 1:24:38Graham Stephan?

  But could you see before launching that they only had like 5,000?

• 1:24:41Speaker 02

  You can't see into that. So that when you're sitting on the other side, the market maker is like a black box. And, and there are several market makers that you use. They had all of the liquidity and were providing that liquidity to other market makers. And there was the whole thing. And so when we were sitting there just looking at our screens and you see this, just think about this. There, there's never been a coin ever that hit 316 billion dollar market cap anywhere. We launched at 50 million. We're at a, I don't know, 200 million FDB right now. So if that had been our trajectory, it would, this would have been a great success, right? But it, in a 10 minute, it didn't just do a Christmas tree.

• 1:25:25Speaker 02

  It did a Mount Everest. And then it came all the way back down. But it was literally, that spike happened in like a minutes, minutes of the, of the coin launch.

• 1:25:39Jack Selby?

  How much volume then was actually transacted during that time period?

• 1:25:43Graham Stephan?

  Hey, by the way, really quick, if you want extra content just like this, as well as early access and a bonus post show posted every single week, feel free to join as a channel member to get immediate access to all of that as well as early access to everything else that we post, along with priority responses to all of your comments. So if that sounds cool, feel free to join. Would love to have you on board. Thanks so much. We'll get back to the podcast now.

• 1:26:06Jack Selby?

  How much volume then was actually transacted during that time period?

• 1:26:11Speaker 02

  Very little. Like you could have made a $10, you know, purchase of the coin and it sent it up $30 billion. I mean, literally.

• 1:26:18Jack Selby?

  See, that's the, I, I, it makes sense mathematically. It's just, I don't envy you because you now need to explain yourself out of that.

• 1:26:24Speaker 02

  Exactly. And by the way, and like you said, nobody has, nobody has an interest in understanding liquidity and how a liquidity pool parts. It's too complicated.

• 1:26:33Graham Stephan?

  I don't even understand.

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  Right, and nobody.

• 1:26:35Jack Selby?

  Okay, Grant, so you have people that are bidding and you have people that are asking. Those are the people that are willing to pay a certain price and willing to sell at a certain price. And then you have this money that makes the transaction actually occur. Now, if there's not enough money to make the transaction occur, then like if someone's. Yeah. If someone puts a market order at a buy, but there's no money that fulfills it and there's no one that's necessarily selling it, then like the price can spike, it can go down. And so basically it's the, the lube of an engine, if that's absent.

• 1:27:04Graham Stephan?

  I just think, why do you, why do you need this horrible exchange money?

• 1:27:07Speaker 02

  And it went to $75 billion. Just remember this, Trump coin has lost 95% of its value. Does anybody sit here and ask Don and Eric of why they would ever get involved in this? And they took out 80%.

• 1:27:20Jack Selby?

  I think people do ask.

• 1:27:21Speaker 02

  Max extracting at 3.9, but they don't give a shit. And what I was trying to do was show that you could do it the exact opposite. I wanted it to be the specific troll of how they have taken over industries and, and, and ideas and, and made them theirs and then max extracted from them and done the exact opposite of, of, of what they said that they were going to do. You know? And so I may have had all these highfalutin reasons of doing it, of doing it. Bottom line is this, in three minutes, the coin went from $50 million where we intended to launch it. And because of literally singular trades that could have been anywhere from a dollar to, to a hundred dollars,

• 1:28:01Speaker 02

  sent it billions of dollars to higher than any, any, any other coin, I think by a factor of, of several, has ever traded.

• 1:28:10Jack Selby?

  Well, I would be excited to hear your third party investigations into the matter. If you publish that, I think.

• 1:28:15Graham Stephan?

  I'm also.

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  What I will do is I'll give them to you guys and I'll come back.

• 1:28:18Graham Stephan?

  I'm also very curious.

• 1:28:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:19Graham Stephan?

  What was going through your mind when you saw it?

• 1:28:24Speaker 02

  That's what was going through my mind.

• 1:28:26Jack Selby?

  You should have done like a live stream launch. The smile turned into a frown.

• 1:28:30Speaker 02

  No, literally, it was that.

• 1:28:31Graham Stephan?

  Because for the first two minutes.

• 1:28:33Speaker 02

  But by the way, the guys that I was sitting with.

• 1:28:34Graham Stephan?

  You must have just thought like.

• 1:28:35Speaker 02

  Like, you know, they're truly, truly, truly experienced people that are part of this. They were sitting there going like, and I'm like. What?

• 1:28:43Graham Stephan?

  What?

• 1:28:43Speaker 02

  Like, how?

• 1:28:44Graham Stephan?

  What?

• 1:28:45Speaker 02

  You know? And it was just the most infuriating. Because by the way, the whole thing was, when I started this, I said, the only way that I'm doing this is that if no one ever could accuse me of doing a rug pull. And so we built everything into the tokenomics of it so that you could never be-

• 1:29:02Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, but I feel like that's what everyone says. And then it's somehow, it's just like-

• 1:29:05Speaker 02

  By the way, name me one other person that has gone through this, that, you know, a celebrity that is-

• 1:29:09Graham Stephan?

  Probably the Hauktua was like the last one. And it seemed like she was like just innocent.

• 1:29:14Speaker 02

  And the only way to get back is like-

• 1:29:16Graham Stephan?

  It's so bad.

• 1:29:17Speaker 02

  But my, my point is, is that there were people that extracted from her coins. She was not involved in her coins.

• 1:29:22Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:29:23Speaker 02

  She got duped and conned by a bunch of people.

• 1:29:25Graham Stephan?

  I agree.

• 1:29:25Speaker 02

  Look, man, I didn't get duped and conned by anybody. I went into this with full, eyes wide open, exactly what I was trying to tend to do. And by the way, and still have, the coin still sits at the value that I wanted it to launch at. It holds that value. We have a two years of prediction market, predictions to, to burn coins. We still have over 10% of the coin to be able to airdrop to, to community. I still have an enormous amount of the, of the value of the coin to be able to give away to charity. Look, that's it. The proof is in the pudding. The, the, and the, and the pudding is, the ingredients have to be an after action report, an independent-

• 1:30:06Jack Selby?

  That's what I'm looking forward to.

• 1:30:08Speaker 02

  What happened in that 316?

• 1:30:09Jack Selby?

  To see how many wallets were affected by it, you know, was it-

• 1:30:12Speaker 02

  I promise you, I guarantee you, I will, I will come back or I'll, you guys will be some of the first. I'll send the reports to you. And I'm not, and by the way, that's not like, like four months from now. I mean, that's like the end of this week.

• 1:30:23Graham Stephan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:30:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:24Jack Selby?

  Yeah, text it over.

• 1:30:25Graham Stephan?

  So actually, we could just put it in the description.

• 1:30:27Jack Selby?

  We could link to the report in the description of the video if you guys would like to see it.

• 1:30:31Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:30:31Jack Selby?

  Radical transparency.

• 1:30:32Graham Stephan?

  I could upload it to Claude so I understand what it means.

• 1:30:35Speaker 02

  Exactly. By the, and that, by the way, and one of the reasons that we were able to figure that out is exactly that. Is because Aerodon gave us their initial report of exactly what happened. And we were able to feed it into Claude and give it into a granular level of exactly what happened. And that's the, and that's what was fed out of it.

• 1:30:53Jack Selby?

  I'm surprised by your seemingly like understanding-

• 1:30:56Graham Stephan?

  Oh, yeah, I don't even understand this.

• 1:30:58Jack Selby?

  Crypto and stuff like that. And even like knowledge on the Hauktua coin, you know?

• 1:31:02Speaker 02

  I knew all the coins because I looked into every one of them and I wanted to know exactly what happened. You know, one of the things that had to happen was the Eric Adams coin. And what you figuring out Eric Adams launched a coin and he did this, that, and the other thing. And then it, it went to zero within 72 hours. And I said, like, okay, like, what are the mechanics of that? Why did that happen? Did somebody fully extract? And it turns out, I believe allegedly someone extracted within the, within the first, from the inside. It became clear that the coin went to zero. So how do you build a coin that does what coins were intended to do, tokens were intended to do in terms of building something? And not max extracting? And that's what we did.

• 1:31:41Graham Stephan?

  It seems like the best meme coins though are not associated with a person. Like I'm thinking recently it was like Pons was one of those meme coins.

• 1:31:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:31:51Graham Stephan?

  Shot up.

• 1:31:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:51Graham Stephan?

  But when it's like, there's not a person, it's not a thing. It just somehow appears one day.

• 1:31:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:58Graham Stephan?

  And then some groups get a hold of it and they're like, oh, it's-

• 1:32:00Speaker 02

  Maybe I got a little bit ahead of myself as being an idea and not just a person. And the idea is this, is the idea of, of resilience, recovery, redemption. The idea that we all get to tell our own stories, that we don't have to live in the narratives that have been written for us. That's the idea. You guys asked me why I'm doing this is not just the coin in any way. The larger picture of this is it. I would like to build something. I think it's important. I know that it's important in terms of my, my future, to have a financial future that goes along with it. For my family, for my, for, for my children.

• 1:32:40Speaker 02

  But for me too, in order to be able to make independent decisions, to do the things that matter to me. That's important. But really, what is the, why spend this much time talking about this? Is because I know I have one thing that I am eminently qualified to talk to other people about. And that's about surviving. That's how to make it through. How to walk through the fire about the idea that, you know what? You may get knocked down, but it truly in life is all about how you get back up. And so I look at this thing as that. I look at, look, I took a swing. I had the exact right intentions.

• 1:33:24Speaker 02

  I promise you, I'll be able to show that in every single way. And now I gotta get back up. I took a punch in the face on this one, but it's not the first time. And, and it's not like I'm, I'm happy that it happened. But I know that that is something that is, that I just can't walk away from things anymore. I mean, act as if they did not happen or that I was duped or that, you know, somebody, you know, nefarious, like, you know? There is no excuse. There's an explanation out there, but ultimately at the end of the day, everything that happens is my responsibility.

• 1:34:00Jack Selby?

  What sort of financial goals do you have for your own life?

• 1:34:04Speaker 02

  My immediate financial goal would be to, to make good on the debts that I owe. That's number one is, is to, is to have the capacity to, to come to terms with the people that I legitimately owe money to. For my defense over the period of time.

• 1:34:26Graham Stephan?

  How does that relationship look today with those people?

• 1:34:30Speaker 02

  Oh, with most of them, it's great. It's, they've been very understanding and, and, and been willing to work with me on that and believe in me. And believe in the idea that, that, that I, that I will do exactly that. But number two is not, I have no interest in, in, in things. Not that I don't like things. Like I was talking about Nico Leonard and watches. I love watches, you know? I mean, I don't wear this, Timex is like a statement because I only wear a Timex. You know, I mean, I love a Rolex. I am not saying that I don't like nice things, but that's not my goal. And maybe it's because of what I've gone through and where I've been to.

• 1:35:11Speaker 02

  My goal is to be able to have and live in an environment in which I can nurture the, the, the, the, the most important relationships that I have. And that's with my family, beginning with Melissa and Beau and my daughters. And to have an adequate space that you're not spending all of your time, like wondering what you're going to do at the end of the month. That's it. That's really it.

• 1:35:36Jack Selby?

  Does investing play a role in that?

• 1:35:38Speaker 02

  No, well, I, I hope that it would. I, I really hope that it would, but I have to get there first. I have to get to the space where there's any opportunity of any dollar that I make going to anything other than my immediate obligations right now.

• 1:36:00Jack Selby?

  So what is your current like monthly expenses? I imagine that you could sell your art and like cover that and then some, you know?

• 1:36:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm working on it. You know what I mean? And, and, and just remember is that literally, truly, it's just like, this is the, the only opportunity for me to be able to do this in a, in any meaningful way, just started like 16 months ago, you know? And I'm working on it. And I, and, and right now, I'm, I am able to do the things that I need to be able to do, to cover my obligations to people that I need to cover my obligations to, to take care of the family, put food on the table and, and pay the rent.

• 1:36:44Jack Selby?

  Do you have a financial advisor or any sort of money manager?

• 1:36:48Speaker 02

  Not, not technically, but, but I, but I do have people that I trust very much that have been very helpful in, in, in advising me.

• 1:36:57Graham Stephan?

  Do you have any concerns about the future of the US economy?

• 1:37:01Speaker 02

  I have, oh, yeah.

• 1:37:03Graham Stephan?

  What do you think is the biggest issue right now?

• 1:37:05Speaker 02

  $40 trillion in, in, in debt.

• 1:37:07Jack Selby?

  What do you think that comes from?

• 1:37:10Speaker 02

  I think 35% of the, more than that comes from one presidency. And that's this one and over the, the two presidencies. But you can't blame all of the debt on any single president. I think that it is unwillingness for us to really look at the, at, at very uncomfortable and unpopular things that would potentially need to be done in order for us to live in our means. Now, remember, I mean,

• 1:37:38Speaker 02

  you know, part of it is about revenue, but, but the other part of it is about the way in which we address entitlements. And, and at some point, we're going to have to be able to reconcile the two or, or not and, and face the consequences of that.

• 1:37:58Jack Selby?

  What do you think are the top three things?

• 1:38:00Jack Selby?

  Things that would need to change in order to stabilize the US debt.

• 1:38:05Speaker 02

  Number one is to, uh, is to, uh, come to terms with, uh, how we are going to continue to organize and, and run our entitlement programs. Number two, you know, there's this whole push from progressives about, you know, a, a, a very easy catchphrase, tax the billionaires, tax the billionaires. Well, the fact of the matter is, is that when most people associate taxes, they associate it with the income tax, which is the largest driver of revenue in, with the federal government. Billionaires don't pay income tax and not because they're cheats on their taxes, but because they take advantage of the system as it exists. And, you know, I mean, Elon Musk pays him famously pays

• 1:38:50Speaker 02

  himself no salary. You know, Jeff Bezos pays himself a hundred thousand dollars. And why would you, uh, pay yourself a salary to be taxed in normal income? So taxing the income of billionaires is, um, is meaningless. Now that being said too, is that, you know, I think people don't truly understand that out of 350 million Americans, there's only 984 families that are truly billionaires and they pay no income taxes. Have you guys read, which is an incredible book and I, and I suggest that you read it. It's called The Second Estate and it's by this, uh, professor who is a tax expert. And she talks about how we're dangerously coming close to a, to a, a society that very much resembles

• 1:39:34Speaker 02

  France in the, uh, late 1700s, eight, early 1800s. And what you had, what they called the second estate is that you had the king, but then you had the feudal that it basically they had created a system by which they were not taxed by the, by the king and they passed all of those taxes down to working people. And, um, and right now the vast majority of taxes fall on the 99%. So think about it.

• 1:40:02Jack Selby?

  Well, I thought the bottom 50% pays pretty much nothing in tax.

• 1:40:06Speaker 02

  Well, here's the thing though, between 99%, what do you think that, the, uh, uh, that would put you in the top 1% of income earners in the United States?

• 1:40:17Jack Selby?

  700,000.

• 1:40:18Speaker 02

  That's exactly right. $750,000. $750,000. And I don't believe that most people think, and what, what we, we all know is that the, the chasm between $750,000 as your income and, uh, and a billion is from not, you know, here, not to the moon. It's here to Pluto.

• 1:40:43Jack Selby?

  Yep.

• 1:40:44Speaker 02

  And so it's not about income tax and many people have these aspirations and they think, look, you know, I don't, the tax are rich. I want to be rich one day, you know, and I want to make a million dollars. I want to make $5 million. I want to make $10 million. The difference between doing that in income and having, uh, you know, a billion dollars in wealth is, you know, two very, very different worlds. So how do you tax wealth? And it's a really tricky thing because you do.

• 1:41:12Jack Selby?

  You need to tax wealth. Wouldn't, wouldn't someone then say, well, why don't we get our spending under control first and then figure out how much we need?

• 1:41:20Speaker 02

  Okay. Because here's the thing about that. Think about the politics of that, getting our spending under control. All right. What, what, in every situation, of course you should get your spending under control. You know, a bunch of Democrats did it. My dad reduced the deficit for, for the first time in, uh, I don't know how, how many, uh, presidencies. Bill Clinton ballot, famously balanced the budget with the Democratic Congress. You know what I mean? So getting our spending under control is obviously something that's really important, but the way in which they went about it in this past, uh, you know, two years is, is asinine. I mean, like take for instance, like the, the whole, uh, Doge push, you know, Doge, you know, ended USAID. You know

• 1:42:04Speaker 02

  how much money we spent on USAID and as a percentage of the budget? Less than 3%.

• 1:42:09Jack Selby?

  So I thought, and again, I could be misinformed here, but I thought in terms of ending it, it wasn't ending it. It was just annotating exactly what the funds were used for.

• 1:42:19Speaker 02

  No, no, they ended it. It's over. USAID, basically all of the, uh, all of the organizations that were funded by USAID that promulgated anything from the PEPFAR program that saved 20 million lives around the world to enormous amount of good that we've done over in the world since its inception in, uh, you know, 50 years ago is gone, is effectively gone.

• 1:42:42Jack Selby?

  And I'll put it up. If I'm incorrect here, I'll, I'll note that I'm incorrect. I thought Elon said that he wasn't ending it. He just wanted to annotate what the funds were used for. And if they agreed to publicly disclose exactly where the funds went, he was all for it.

• 1:42:56Speaker 02

  He said that, and that's not true. A hundred percent. He 100% say, say that. And I can show you where it is absolutely not the truth is that we had, I don't know how many thousands of workers that were in sub Saharan Africa, um, that worked for USAID distributing these programs that were critical to, uh, you know, to so many people and saving so many lives. And then there's this whole argument that he says, oh, well, you know, it was all, you know, Joe Rogan says, oh, you know, it was all CIA fronts and, you know, intelligence operations and they were, you know, funneling money into, you know, uh, my, my point about that is, yeah.

• 1:43:34Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 1:43:59Speaker 06

  If high interest credit card debt is keeping you up at night, you're not alone. Interest rates as high as 21% APR can do that to you. Rocket Mortgage can help. A home equity loan from Rocket Mortgage could cut your interest rate by more than half. So you could wipe out your high interest credit card debt without touching your current mortgage rate. See how much you could save at rocketmortgage.com. Rocket Mortgage LLC licensed in 50 states. NMLS consumeraccess.org number 3030. Call 8004ROCKET for full program details.

• 1:44:29Speaker 02

  But what if some of it was? What do you, how do you think we got information and intelligence in places in the world where no other place buddy could have ever gone? I worked for the US UN World Food Program as chairman of the board of that. We were responsible for the $2.6 billion, 60% of the UN World Food Program's budget. The largest humanitarian organization in the world. We've had 70 million, uh, 75 million people in 80 different countries around the world on a daily basis where every single major hotspot and, uh, in, in the world at, at day one from whether it's refugee crisis created by war or a tsunami in, um, in the Philippines. And you know who is there

• 1:45:13Speaker 02

  first? Who is there first? USAID with boxes and boxes of material and, and, and food for these people in which it says a gift from the American people on every one of them. It was the most important soft diplomacy that we had as a nation.

• 1:45:28Jack Selby?

  Why would they want to end the programs?

• 1:45:31Speaker 02

  Because I think that he had an enormous distrust and, and dislike for, for programs like USAID. I don't think that he, uh, believes in them. I don't think that he believes that, as he said, famously said, is that the thing that is the most, um, you know, corrosive thing in American culture is the idea of empathy. Remember when he said that? And I think that that's because what he believes. And I also think that he believes that that's because he could at that time is that they were almost drunk on power. And what's the lowest hanging fruit? Everybody always says, well, you're spending money over there and why don't you spend it and on the homeless people over here? Well, I think we're a great nation. I think that we can do both. And I think that we need to

• 1:46:15Speaker 02

  do both because it's our responsibility as a great nation to be able to do both. I think that it is in our interest to be the benefactors of people that no other people stand up for and in the world. I think it's the greatest power of the United States of America is the idea of who we are. And right now, who are we? All it seems to me is we're dropping bombs and we're not dropping, uh, uh, you know, uh, food and medicine in any way.

• 1:46:47Jack Selby?

  That sounded like a campaign speech to me. I saw the hands with the thumbs kind of right here. I know that's kind of the way.

• 1:46:54Speaker 02

  I started to do my Bill Clinton.

• 1:46:56Jack Selby?

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:46:57Speaker 02

  You gave me away. No, it's something I care deeply about.

• 1:47:01Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:02Speaker 02

  I care deeply about.

• 1:47:04Jack Selby?

  All right. Unfortunately, we are in a strong time constraint, so we would love to do a part two at some time. I would love to, but we're going to do rapid fire questions to kick this, uh, to an end. Do you own a single stock?

• 1:47:18Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:47:20Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:47:21Jack Selby?

  That was like a bomb being dropped right there. That's crazy. Can I at least like send you a stock? Oh my gosh. I can send you a stock?

• 1:47:28Speaker 02

  Of course. Yeah.

• 1:47:29Jack Selby?

  You can't quite send a stock, but you could open up. I will give you the money to buy a stock.

• 1:47:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. You tell me the stock and I'll, and I'll, and I'll find the money to put into.

• 1:47:38Jack Selby?

  Buy like one share of Apple.

• 1:47:39Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:47:40Jack Selby?

  You know?

• 1:47:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:40Jack Selby?

  Not financial advice. That's crazy. I'll, I'll give you the money. Okay.

• 1:47:44Speaker 02

  I would rather Robinhood.

• 1:47:46Jack Selby?

  All right. I like Robinhood. Shout out Vlad Tenen, CEO, founder of Robinhood. We're getting Hunter Biden. The first stock he owns is Robinhood stock.

• 1:47:55Speaker 02

  All right.

• 1:47:56Jack Selby?

  Okay. What was the biggest surprise that you've seen at the White House?

• 1:48:00Speaker 02

  How, uh,

• 1:48:03Speaker 02

  dedicated the, uh, the, the staff that remains with the White House are the most wonderful people in the world. It was, it may be not a surprise, but they, uh, uh, they made it a beautiful experience to be there and they, they stay through administration to administration.

• 1:48:21Jack Selby?

  And they show no sort of?

• 1:48:23Speaker 02

  No, they're wonderful, wonderful people. And it's just incredibly dedicated to the idea of the, of the honor of every, anyone to ever walk through those doors. They, they're just really, really, really cool, beautiful people.

• 1:48:36Jack Selby?

  I want a specific answer for this. What is your one least favorite thing about Trump?

• 1:48:40Speaker 02

  Is his cruelty.

• 1:48:43Speaker 02

  His cruelty.

• 1:48:44Jack Selby?

  One specific example of that.

• 1:48:45Speaker 02

  The way in which he particularly talks to, uh, female reporters really, really, really, really bothers me. Yeah.

• 1:48:56Jack Selby?

  What is the one thing that you admire most about Trump?

• 1:48:59Speaker 02

  His tenacity.

• 1:49:01Jack Selby?

  Anything specific?

• 1:49:02Speaker 02

  He has taken, um,

• 1:49:09Speaker 02

  Delusional thinking to a, to an art form that is, um, that is almost hard not to admire. I'll give you an example. I really do think that he thinks that he's 6'3", weighs 225 pounds.

• 1:49:25Jack Selby?

  What do you think he actually is?

• 1:49:27Speaker 02

  I think he's probably more like six feet and probably weighs 280. I mean, uh, and maybe 275 if, you know, but, but it's amazing how much that he is, um, self-deluded in, in things to the degree that he makes it into a reality.

• 1:49:45Jack Selby?

  Can you do a Trump impression?

• 1:49:47Speaker 02

  No, I can't.

• 1:49:51Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna try.

• 1:49:53Jack Selby?

  What's the cheapest thing about you?

• 1:49:55Speaker 02

  Probably, um, clothes.

• 1:49:58Jack Selby?

  What brand is that shirt?

• 1:49:59Speaker 02

  Levi's. I don't even know. Melissa bought me this one.

• 1:50:02Jack Selby?

  I love that. Yeah. What's your biggest insecurity?

• 1:50:05Speaker 02

  Uh, almost every one of the true insecurities, I got to lay down, um, over the course of the last seven years in rebuilding my life. And, uh, I would have said before that you were gonna find out about my secrets. My biggest insecurity would be that, that you would have found out I was a crack addict, not just an addict. My biggest insecurity would have been that you found out that I was in motel rooms with people that you don't wanna be in motel rooms with. But every single one of my secrets has been exposed.

• 1:50:39Jack Selby?

  So it's almost a blessing.

• 1:50:41Speaker 02

  It was one of the greatest blessings of my life. Saved my life.

• 1:50:44Jack Selby?

  When's the last time you cried?

• 1:50:46Speaker 02

  Last night, I was watching Lioness and they found Joe. Do you guys watch Lioness?

• 1:50:53Graham Stephan?

  No, I don't know what the, I don't know what you're talking about. That's amazing. I don't know what it is, but.

• 1:50:57Speaker 02

  Well, everybody will know. Lioness is a show on Paramount. It's one of the, um, uh, it's always, and she was kidnapped and they found her. And I was, I was overwhelmed.

• 1:51:08Jack Selby?

  And lastly.

• 1:51:09Speaker 02

  I cry all the time.

• 1:51:11Jack Selby?

  If you had this amount of money, you would feel financially free.

• 1:51:15Speaker 02

  So I watched you with John, um.

• 1:51:17Jack Selby?

  John Morgan.

• 1:51:18Speaker 02

  John Morgan. Yeah. I'd, I'd, I'd say half that. I need half that. What he said, remember?

• 1:51:23Graham Stephan?

  He said 30 million in a paid off house.

• 1:51:24Speaker 02

  30 million dollars in a paid off house. I could, I could do with maybe a, a, uh, I guess, uh, you know, a third of that in a paid off house.

• 1:51:33Jack Selby?

  That's a great number. That's what a lot of people say. A lot of people say is 10 in a paid off house.

• 1:51:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:39Jack Selby?

  Yeah?

• 1:51:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:40Jack Selby?

  Cool. All right. Well, Hunter, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Copy Hour. This was an honor. Such an honor.

• 1:51:45Speaker 02

  No, mine. I'd love you guys. So thanks. Yeah, I'm coming back.

• 1:51:48Jack Selby?

  Yes. We would love to have you back on.

• 1:51:50Speaker 02

  Okay. All right.

• 1:51:51Jack Selby?

  Thank you guys so much for watching. All of his information will be linked down below in the description, including the gallery. So if you wanna check it out, you know where to find it. Thank you so much for watching. Till next time. Is something that the left is fundamentally right about that the right does not want to acknowledge?

• 1:52:07Speaker 04

  Nothing.

• 1:52:17Jack Selby?

  How difficult is it to change someone's mind?

• 1:52:20Speaker 04

  Depends.

• 1:52:24Speaker 04

  I have plenty of friends. I'm fine having a few enemies. They're all in the same room. They're all going to the same parties. And when they all share the same worldview, it's a blind spot.

• 1:52:33Jack Selby?

  How much money have you lost by not being peace?

• 1:52:38Speaker 04

  Many tens of millions of dollars. I've had people say that I was a hate speaker because I said soccer was, I do. I think so.

• 1:52:44Jack Selby?

  What political beliefs have you changed your mind on?

• 1:52:47Speaker 04

  I don't know that anyone has ever actually convinced me to take a more left position.

• 1:52:51Jack Selby?

  Who's been the most intelligent person you've debated?

• 1:52:53Speaker 04

  People aren't gonna like this answer.

• 1:53:02Graham Stephan?

  Hey, how about this? If that wasn't enough, you get our next episode as well for a limited time. So if you join as a channel member, you get now two of our following episodes right now to watch. Our next one's actually with Joshua Weisman. So if you want the preview of that, here you go. Enjoy.

• 1:53:18Jack Selby?

  So you started out as an overweight teenager who loved food and now you're shredded, rich, successful YouTuber with 10 million subscribers. How much time is realistically needed to get to like a decently impressive home chef?

• 1:53:29Speaker 04

  I didn't go to culinary school. I worked in restaurants, in real life scenarios, learning real life techniques and tricks. Where's the lamb sauce?

• 1:53:38Jack Selby?

  What's the worst thing you've seen in a restaurant?

• 1:53:40Speaker 04

  State officials today looking to address the growing issue of substance abuse within the restaurant and hospitality industry. There have been people that I've worked with that were like addicted and then one day they just disappeared. Someone was standing up with their chef knife. The person stood up and turned into their knife. They got rushed to the hospital, got stitched up, went back to service.

• 1:53:58Jack Selby?

  How much money do you think your restaurant's gonna make?

• 1:54:00Speaker 04

  I have no idea. I mean, how much does Gordon Ramsay make on those restaurants? Like 200 million dollars a year? This is my new restaurant, which officially opens today and it's called Ben & Lynn's.

• 1:54:09Jack Selby?

  What's the most you've ever paid for a meal?

• 1:54:11Speaker 04

  One of the most expensive ones was for you guys.

• 1:54:12Graham Stephan?

  I wouldn't say it's phenomenal. Not my cup of tea.

• 1:54:14Speaker 04

  It's too buttery.

• 1:54:18Graham Stephan?

  What is the biggest mistake that you have made?

• 1:54:37Speaker 04

  The wheel was brilliant, but the road made it iconic. Electricity was powerful, but the grid brought it to every home. Innovation needs infrastructure. AI is no different, especially in finance where AI can't run without context, but it can run on Plaid's infrastructure. Built over 13 years to understand why money moves. Plaid makes AI work in finance. Visit plaid.com slash AI to learn more.