NE-YO, 3x Grammy Award Winner, biggest hits, writing for Beyonce & Rihanna, perception over reality, finding peace in the public eye and fatherhood

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast The king of R&B, known for his love songs and timeless hits, Ne-Yo sits with Ryan, Fred and Channing for in-depth conversation about music, family, fatherhood and finding balance in the public eye, Trying to emulate the R&B legend, Ryan is singing his music to start the show as the guys all get a laugh talking about wardrobe choices, in particular Ryan's so-called R&B outfit and lightening the tone before diving into the deep layers of who Ne-Yo is as a person and wildly talented artist. Dating back to how his career started, how it took off and how he has been able to maintain his level of excellence and always staying motivated, Ne-Yo talks about how it's not just producing and performing his own music but it's relishing the power of his pen by writing some of the biggest hits for Rihanna to Beyonce to Usher and more. Understanding success comes with living under a microscope, Ne-Yo explains how he's navigated the waters all these years and being able to tune out the opinions of others while putting his faith in himself and his family to validate his work. Channing makes the joke about how females expect Ne-Yo to be the guy singing and writing those love songs in his actual relationships and asks if there is pressure to be that character over his everyday persona. Out of all the accolades and #1 hits, he shares his biggest accomplishment is being a father and will always put his children first before anything else. He clears the air on misconceptions of him in his personal life and opens up on what life is really like away from the music. Despite being separated from his children's mothers, Ne-Yo has managed to maintain co-parenting duties and understands the importance of a family upbringing. Ne-Yo shares with the guys how he grew up in house full of women with his mother, sisters, aunts which he credits for helping to shape him into the man he is today, Ne-Yo reflects on his biggest Pivot which he remembers clearly how a long time ago when he first started doing signings at a record store, a young man came up to him and thanked him for saving his life with is music and how the guy was struggling mentally wanting to take his own life, and something in the lyrics and flow of Ne-Yo's music, the young man found comfort and Most recently, over the summer, Ne-Yo headlined President Biden's July 4th concert at the White House, 24 hours after performing a private celebration at Michael Rubin's Hampton's event with exclusive guests form Kim Kardashian, Beyonce, Jay Z, Tom Brady, Kevin Hart, Leonardo DiCaprrio and many more. Ne-Yo just released his brand-new single "Link Up" which will be featured on his 9th album coming out in 2024. The Pivot Podcast releases premiere episodes every Tuesday with audio available at 9aest and streaming on YouTube at 12pest. Fridays are special drops during football season at 3:30pest. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  So sick of love songs.

• 0:33Channing Crowder?

  He enjoys good music.

• 0:35Ryan Clark?

  So tired of tears.

• 0:39Channing Crowder?

  Don't embarrass me.

• 0:41Ryan Clark?

  So done with wishing.

• 0:45Speaker 04

  That's not beautiful.

• 0:46Ryan Clark?

  So sad and slow.

• 0:48Speaker 04

  That's not how it's supposed to sound.

• 0:50Ryan Clark?

  Why can't I turn off the radio?

• 0:53Channing Crowder?

  That's not how it's supposed to sound.

• 0:57Channing Crowder?

  Appreciate it.

• 0:58Ryan Clark?

  First off, Chan. R&B mode, what's up, bro? Great writing doesn't care who sings it.

• 1:03Channing Crowder?

  No, he does.

• 1:04Ryan Clark?

  That's how you do it, man. Gee, that's to you, too. We creatives in love. We love big souls on our shoes.

• 1:10Channing Crowder?

  Neo, them ain't hard, are they?

• 1:11Ryan Clark?

  Huh?

• 1:11Channing Crowder?

  Them ain't hard.

• 1:13Ryan Clark?

  Ah, what are you talking about?

• 1:15Speaker 04

  I wouldn't have went with the socks and the shoes.

• 1:18Ryan Clark?

  These are my R&B shoes and socks.

• 1:20Speaker 04

  I might have went with one or the other. I don't know if I'd have went with...

• 1:22Ryan Clark?

  No, nothing to all.

• 1:23Speaker 04

  The combination.

• 1:24Ryan Clark?

  Listen, it don't...

• 1:25Channing Crowder?

  You can't look for an ally, and then when the ally tells you your shit's garbage, be mad.

• 1:29Ryan Clark?

  I didn't look for an ally. I just wanted to talk about the heels on my shoes.

• 1:31Speaker 04

  I didn't say they was garbage. I just said the combination, I probably wouldn't have went for. That's all.

• 1:37Channing Crowder?

  Cause he did that for you.

• 1:39Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, this is definitely my R&B outfit. This is it. I've been singing all morning. Neo, cold, like...

• 1:44Channing Crowder?

  You working on the deal, huh?

• 1:45Ryan Clark?

  No, I can't sing. But I would play in the video. Like, if Neo makes a love song and he don't want to be, like, the star of the video, then I could be the star of the video.

• 1:56Channing Crowder?

  I should probably be.

• 1:57Ryan Clark?

  The video vixen. You see what I'm saying?

• 1:58Channing Crowder?

  At love interest, I'd be the... I'm the looker on the show.

• 2:03Ryan Clark?

  You're the least handsome person on the show.

• 2:06Channing Crowder?

  Kiss my ass.

• 2:09Ryan Clark?

  Bro.

• 2:09Channing Crowder?

  I'm the looker.

• 2:10Ryan Clark?

  Dog, since you bought those teeth, you've been totally different.

• 2:14Channing Crowder?

  Everybody talks to me first.

• 2:15Ryan Clark?

  Chan, they only talk to you because you say stupid things.

• 2:20Channing Crowder?

  Now, listen. Got new teeth done. He kissed my ass, Neo.

• 2:25Ryan Clark?

  Doing too much.

• 2:26Speaker 04

  R and B, R C. I am curious what makes this an R and B outfit specifically.

• 2:31Ryan Clark?

  Cause I got the big pants on. You know what, Neo?

• 2:34Speaker 04

  I'm just curious.

• 2:35Ryan Clark?

  Neo.

• 2:36Speaker 04

  Listen, I'm coming from a place of love.

• 2:38Ryan Clark?

  I don't feel.

• 2:40Speaker 04

  These are genuine questions.

• 2:41Ryan Clark?

  I don't feel that.

• 2:42Speaker 04

  These are genuine questions, no judgment.

• 2:43Ryan Clark?

  I feel like, no, your writing is turning into toxicity.

• 2:46Speaker 04

  Ah, here we go.

• 2:48Ryan Clark?

  At first, at first you were writing and you were bringing people together, right? I don't know if it was around the time you started writing for Rihanna and she was telling people that she wasn't fooling with them and all that. I don't know. I thought this was gonna be Libra brothers banding together.

• 3:04Speaker 04

  It's absolutely that.

• 3:05Ryan Clark?

  It doesn't feel like it.

• 3:06Speaker 04

  As your Libra brother.

• 3:08Ryan Clark?

  Doesn't feel like it.

• 3:08Speaker 04

  Don't do that again.

• 3:11Speaker 04

  As your Libra brother.

• 3:13Ryan Clark?

  See, that's, that's a place of love.

• 3:14Speaker 04

  If I had love, I wouldn't say that.

• 3:16Ryan Clark?

  You know what? It's time for a damn pivot. Do the show without me.

• 3:19Speaker 04

  How about that?

• 3:45Ryan Clark?

  Welcome to the show, brother, man. We appreciate you, dawg, for sure, man. We appreciate you being here. For us, it's always good, you know, as football players and feeling like we reached the level of excellence in what we did to have an opportunity to talk to somebody that's in a different field or has a different platform, who's also done that, three-time Grammy Award winner. And to me, more deserving than that on many other occasions. Appreciate it, man. It's one of those cool things where you start to research and Eli, oh, he wrote that song? Oh, he wrote that song?

• 4:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:17Ryan Clark?

  Oh, how he put himself in that place to write that song? But, you know, growing up, being born in Arkansas, uh, living life in Vegas, uh, with your mother. Talk a little bit about your upbringing and how that helped shape you creatively. Creatively, I'm sorry.

• 4:32Speaker 04

  Was born in Arkansas, Camden, Arkansas, which is, uh, uh, I don't even think you can call Camden a city, it's a town. So it's itty bitty right outside of Little Rock, which is the main, you know, city in Arkansas. But I grew up there, well, was born there, then my journey of my growing up in Las Vegas, which, culture shock, you know, you got cornfields and flamingo fellas. Weird, it was just, it just created a weird justification. But, um, I grew up in a house full of women. Uh, you know, mom and dad tried, didn't work out. Dad decided he didn't want to play no more, so it was my mom, my sister, my grandmother, five aunts, and me.

• 5:10Ryan Clark?

  Damn.

• 5:11Speaker 04

  Till I was like sixteen. Yeah, yeah. Now, growing up in a household like that, you, you definitely learn some things. You learn, uh, the, the, the strength of a woman. You learn the, the resilience of a woman. You, you realize just how much smarter they are than us in so many aspects. And I think that comes from an ability to, to navigate emotion without fear. You know what I mean? Like, I think a lot, I think a lot of men get caught up in, you know, this macho thing where you're not supposed to show any emotion, or, you know, you're supposed to keep this heart out of core, out of, out of shell. But growing up in that house, my mother said, "If it feels good, smile, and if it hurts, cry, and never be ashamed or afraid to do either, because God has given you all of

• 5:56Speaker 04

  those for a reason." I think a lot of people don't realize your emotions are, they have purpose. You're supposed to use them. You're not supposed to be run by them. You're not supposed to be controlled by them. Of course, you don't pull out a hammer to, to, you know, to screw in a, a light bulb. You, you use the right tool for the right job. But to deny that the toolbox exists at all is, is, you know, is doing yourself a disservice as, just as a human being, aside from being a man. Yeah, man, I learned a lot growing up in that house. I like, uh, you said something, uh, along the lines of, "How did he put himself in that place to write that?" And I feel like you were referring to, it's been said to me before. I've received accolade for being able to get into the mind of a woman.

• 6:39Ryan Clark?

  Absolutely.

• 6:40Speaker 04

  But that's not, that's never been, bro, I couldn't tell you what women think. I have no idea. I have no clue. I don't think any man does. I think women's complexity is part of their beauty. However, I write from a standpoint of a person that's not afraid of emotion. I write from the standpoint of a person that's not afraid to be vulnerable, that's not afraid to, to express how they really felt about a situation, regardless of what somebody may think about it, what somebody might say about it. You know, and for whatever reason, those songs just tend to share better with women over the course of my career.

• 7:11Ryan Clark?

  How does that put, or does that put any pressure on you in relationships though? Because sometimes you can hear a song and think, oh, that's exactly how this person is all the time. And then if you do something contrary to that, you know, a woman has no problem pointing out something you've said. So I know for you, something you've written for sure.

• 7:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:33Ryan Clark?

  You know, like, where is this guy?

• 7:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, I can't be Mr. Love song and then turn around and not be Mr. Love song. Yeah, no, that's, that's a, a lesson that I've learned over time. I mean, the reality is, I'm not perfect, you know? I ain't never wrote the song where I said I was perfect, yeah. I know right from wrong, but I feel like so does everybody. That ain't never stopped you from doing nothing wrong before. It just, that just kinda is what it is. I think it's, it's human to err. But it's also human to compartmentalize and go, alright, well, he writes these songs. Clearly, this has gotta be who you are 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, all the time. And it's like, nah, you're, you're mistaking Neo for Shaefer. Like Neo is the identity that has given you this,

• 8:18Speaker 04

  this man that you hope to one day meet, or, or you know, somebody that's gonna treat me like that. Okay, and, and mind you, it's, it's a beautiful picture. However, Shaefer is the real picture. Meaning, I'm gonna treat you right, but I, but I'm also not above making a mistake.

• 8:35Fred Taylor?

  And then to that point, honestly nasty, I'm getting nasty now, but.

• 8:40Channing Crowder?

  So when you so like, so romantic and stuff, you gotta show out every time in the room, in the bedroom then. Cause like you done painted this, you just sent the pictures you painted and now you can't be, you know, I be tired sometimes Neo, you know. I got, I got a minute and a half for you baby, I'm going to bed.

• 9:00Channing Crowder?

  That's all I got today.

• 9:02Speaker 04

  Well, see that, that's, that's creativity goes a long way. I, what, what, what you can't do with, you know, certain members of your member, you do with other areas, with other things, you know, it's, it's, it's about being creative and that's, that's the, the thing that, that has helped me over the years because I'm 44 years old now and yeah, I'm tired too. I get it. I totally understand, you know. So I'm, I'm gonna make, I'm gonna make sure that you have a good time. It might not be as long of a good time as you wanted or thought you was gonna have, but you are going to enjoy yourself.

• 9:34Channing Crowder?

  I was, I call, I call that the bottom drawer.

• 9:36Speaker 04

  Hey.

• 9:37Channing Crowder?

  Got some stuff in that bottom drawer.

• 9:38Speaker 04

  Hey, listen.

• 9:39Channing Crowder?

  You know, some battery powered.

• 9:41Speaker 04

  I'm saying accessorize, you ain't wrong. With accessorize.

• 9:45Channing Crowder?

  That didn't take long.

• 9:46Fred Taylor?

  Nah, that's what I'm saying.

• 9:47Channing Crowder?

  Usually you wait until the middle of the show.

• 9:50Speaker 04

  That's all good.

• 9:51Fred Taylor?

  Nah, he, he usually let them warm up, but he nasty nasty.

• 9:55Channing Crowder?

  Creativity. I'd have made a lot of love to Neo's songs, so.

• 9:58Speaker 04

  And that's, and that's what it's for.

• 10:00Channing Crowder?

  That's what it's for. You feel like he been in the room?

• 10:03Fred Taylor?

  Nah, that's a fact.

• 10:04Channing Crowder?

  That's, that's, that's what you saying? You know, I don't care if he, you know, if you wanna watch Neo shit, we can.

• 10:11Channing Crowder?

  I'd pay, rather not. Look, he's like, I'd rather not watch it, God.

• 10:14Fred Taylor?

  Hey, bro, can we, since we on creativity.

• 10:20Fred Taylor?

  Since the theme is creativity, you've done a lot though, man. I'm a fan, we're all fans. From your music to acting to dancing, inspiration or your artistic pursuit, you know, where, where, where those influences come from?

• 10:34Speaker 04

  Like I said, you know, I grew up in a house full of women. My mother was my musical hero and it is still my musical hero. Like I wanted to learn how to sing because of my mother's love of, of R and B music. R and B music initially and then it, it, you know, evolved into all kinds of music, but eventually initially it was R and B music. And I hated my singing voice when I was younger. Because I didn't sound like the cats that my mom used to listen to. She listened to the OJs and The Temptations and, you know, these kind of thick, raspier voices. And I ain't had that when I was young. You know, my joint was, you know, kind of nasally and high and a little weird. I hated singing.

• 11:16Speaker 04

  So that's when my mom introduced me to Michael Jackson and Stevie Wonder. And she said to me, basically, like, "Look at the way that they use their instrument. It'll help you get more comfortable with your own, you know, Michael Jackson's tone, Stevie Wonder's tone." I learned how to sing, basically mimicking those two gentlemen. And then from there, went into just style and performance and things of that nature. I started looking at a lot of Prince. You know, growing up in Las Vegas, the Rat Pack was a thing. Gravitated to Sammy, of course, because he was the one in the group that looked like me. You know?

• 11:54Speaker 04

  And just fell in love with the fact that this man could do it all. Like Sammy was easily the strongest member of the Rat Pack, which, you know, is arguably why Frank kept him so close. Because you know how dangerous he was. That man could sing, dance, act, comedy, you name it, he could do it. And he did it well. Just being a Renaissance man of entertainment, like, that's something that, you know, that kind of hit me, hit different with me. And then you go into your Marvin Gaye's, you go into your, uh, wait, Prince, Michael Jackson's, Stevie Wonder, Savvy Davis Jr., Marvin Gaye. Yeah, those are my, those are my five kings. You know what I mean? Like, if I could take these five people and meld them into one person, that person is who I've always aspired Neo to be.

• 12:38Fred Taylor?

  Right, so I want to follow up to that. Most recently, Drake tied MJ with the most number ones on the Top 100, right?

• 12:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:48Fred Taylor?

  Ryan has been quoted as saying Chris Brown is more talented than Michael Jackson. Coming from a R&B student and legend yourself, I want to know your thoughts on that. MJ, Chris Brown, who's more talented?

• 13:07Speaker 04

  I don't think that the healthy part of that conversation is trying to create competition there. You know, because Chris will come in this room and sit in your face and say that there would be no Chris Brown, if not for Michael Jackson.

• 13:22Fred Taylor?

  And he responded that way.

• 13:23Speaker 04

  You know, so from a standpoint of who's more talented, I think it becomes relative at that point. Like, it's about who you are.

• 13:29Fred Taylor?

  It's subjective.

• 13:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's subjective. As all opinions are, you know, it's about the person you're talking to. Me personally, both are amazing dancers, both are amazing singers. However, you have to factor in that some of the things that Michael Jackson was doing, he was doing without the use of technology that we have today. You know, without the ability to touch the whole world in a second. You know, it was a different time back then, and he was putting up the numbers he was putting up. You know, you can't, you almost can't compare the two situations. Michael Jackson, I've yet to see, all respect to Chris Brown, love Chris Brown to death, but I've yet to see Chris Brown pop up out the stage and just stand still for 15 minutes and grown ass men is fainting in the crowd.

• 14:14Speaker 04

  I've yet to see Chris do that, you know? I'm not saying he's not capable of it, I've just yet to see it.

• 14:18Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 14:19Speaker 04

  So, I think that...

• 14:20Fred Taylor?

  It was a multi-layered question, Kyle.

• 14:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, of course.

• 14:22Fred Taylor?

  It was real heavy because he talked about talent, he talking about basketball and just talent. Sure talent.

• 14:29Speaker 04

  Well, the first thing I just said...

• 14:30Fred Taylor?

  Along with...

• 14:31Speaker 04

  I said if we put them in a musical Olympics, I like Chris Brown. That's all I was saying, in a talent Olympics. But see, that's broad. I know. Musical Olympics, what are the categories, what are the games in this musical Olympics? I also don't like this either, though. Because basketball would not be in the musical Olympics. I didn't say basketball's in it. You tried to pin him against me in my outfit. Right? You trying to pin him against me with Chris Brown?

• 14:53Fred Taylor?

  That's his space, it's expertise.

• 14:55Speaker 04

  I freaking broke. Our birthdays are like four or five days away from one another. And you been singing his songs all morning. I've been singing his songs. As soon as y'all, he come in, this is what we do. You know what?

• 15:08Ryan Clark?

  We'll handle this later.

• 15:09Speaker 04

  You got your own clothing line.

• 15:10Ryan Clark?

  That got, whatever.

• 15:12Speaker 04

  I am your brother, sir.

• 15:13Ryan Clark?

  Let's try to get back here. I do have this question though. In mentioning all of those musical influences, you start to hope to reach the sort of success that those entertainers had. And obviously, when you do get to the point of winning Grammys and having these different hits, the fame comes along with that as well. What was that sort of adjustment like for you? Having people pay so much attention to not only who Neo is, but who Schaefer is as well?

• 15:45Speaker 04

  Ugh.

• 15:48Speaker 04

  I will say, I have absolutely zero regrets in my life. I regret nothing. However, were it possible to go back and get, go back and do my career over? And maybe take the route that Sia took? You know, the artist Sia? Yeah, where if Sia walked past you today, you wouldn't know who the hell she was?

• 16:09Ryan Clark?

  Like, I think Chance said-

• 16:10Speaker 04

  I might have took that route.

• 16:10Ryan Clark?

  Chance said, "Just like Sia, you can't see her."

• 16:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. It's a bar. Jeez, alright Chance. Do your thing. The concept of celebrity, that was a serious adjustment. Because I've never been a person that moved based off of what I thought somebody was gonna think or feel. You know, especially strangers. Like, I don't know you. Why am I worried about your opinion of me? I've never moved like that. And being in the music industry, it almost kind of forces you to concern yourself with the opinions of strangers. And mind you, I got into the business, you know, before social media became what it is right now.

• 16:49Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 16:50Speaker 04

  You know, it was a thing, but it wasn't the only thing, the way it is right now. To where, you know, you online telling total strangers what you ate for breakfast, like that. I don't come from that era. So it's just always been weird to me to put so much importance and emphasis on other people's opinions. It's like, what I've, and mind you, it has taken me some time to realize this. But what I've realized is that opinions are, one, relative, and two, not special. Because every single person on the face of this planet has one. So if I know that everybody in the room has an opinion, including myself, why would I ever allow anyone else's opinion of me or something that I believe in be more important than my own? You know what I mean?

• 17:35Speaker 04

  And people, but people do it all day long. You get on there and you look at somebody talking crazy about you and you allow yourself to actually feel away

• 17:42Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 17:43Speaker 04

  about what a stranger has said about you. A stranger who, who probably is, is worse off than you, not that that matters at all, but you ju- it's just like, you allow it to be so important to you. And I've, I've never really cared. And then when I was like, kind of forced to care, it, it just didn't, it didn't finwell with me, man. It took a minute for me to realize that my, my opinion is just as important as anybody else's. To be a celebrity, so to speak, is to kind of live your life in a fishbowl a little bit. Yeah. Everybody's paying attention and judging you slightly harsher than they would the average person.

• 18:20Ryan Clark?

  That's what I was gonna get to, but you got to it. You're saying that your opinion matters like other people? No, it matters more to some than other people's opinion. And I think that's where the difficulty of celebrity, like you were able to gain comes into play.

• 18:35Channing Crowder?

  There was a time I talked about in college where I got arrested and I opened a newspaper that next morning, whatever, Monday morning. And somebody at Orlando Sentinel said, "You need to put this guy in a cage until Saturday to cut him out and play football." And that's what changed my mind about like, I don't, I don't give a damn about anybody thinks about me. That's the whole thing with like, the show is, I don't give a shit about what no one thinks or says about me at all. But I remember that moment that I had to click my mind out of it. Was there a moment that you had to, that you went through a time where you were like, you know what? I can't worry about everybody's opinion?

• 19:05Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, yeah. In, in the beginning, um, I, and mind you, I can, I can speak at that, I speak about this because I was definitely one of those people. I'm not finna sit here and act holier than thou. Yeah, in the beginning, it mattered to me what people had to say. And when, you know, if somebody says something about me that just flat out wasn't true, or, or, or, or gave an opinion, you know, that was negative, I would feel away, you know? Or, or spoke, you know, spoke foul about somebody that I, that I cared about. I remember there was a point where people was going at my girl, you know, real hard about something. And in the beginning, I was clapback king. I'm on there, you know, talking to people, people that I don't know from Adam, like, fuck you, whatever the case may be. Just going back and forth to where my manager called me one day, uh, in the middle of one of my rants. I'm like, "Bro, what are you doing?"

• 19:50Speaker 04

  And I'm defending my woman. "Oh, word from who?" From these people online, oh, so you you defending her like somebody came to the house? Like they they pulled up with weapons after her or something? Well, no, then who are you then what are you defending her from? Who are you defending her from? These people don't know y'all? You know what? If anything, you've made this person's day by taking time out of your busy schedule to respond to their foolishness. Like you do you doing that person a favor with all of that right now? And at the end of the day, you not stopping nobody from doing it. It's not like you gonna pull up at his house and break his fingers. You ain't doing that. If you ain't doing that, it ain't no point in even allowing yourself to be bothered by this. It's just what it is. People are allowed to say whatever the hell they want to say about whoever the hell they choose to say it about.

• 20:36Speaker 04

  And it just is what it is, man. Like you can't, there's no way around it. So that it was that moment for me to make me realize I'm putting too much importance on what these people think and how they feel about situations and circumstances that they have no clue as to the reality of, you know what I mean? So, yeah, that was the moment for me.

• 20:55Fred Taylor?

  Does that overconsumption of social media create sort of a creativity block? Where you might have to uh uh just uh uh shut it down for a while? Get in the zone?

• 21:07Speaker 04

  Definitely so, yeah, man. It's uh it's it's the concept of just being oversaturated with with all of it, man. Like it just becomes a lot. You know, you you get an umbrella load on your phone now, what you do? Alright, cool. You you keep it pushing like they didn't just tell you that a child is missing.

• 21:27Ryan Clark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:27Speaker 04

  You know what I mean? But you it happens so often and you hear so much that you're desensitized to it. And that that's that kind of becomes the situation with all with all things. When you just overdo the social media. It's like, you know, you you oversensitize when it come to women, when it come to emotion, when it come to politics, when it come to everything. It's it's just nothing is a big deal because everything is a big deal for seven seconds.

• 21:51Ryan Clark?

  You mentioned being forty-four.

• 21:53Speaker 04

  Yes, sir.

• 21:54Ryan Clark?

  Our ages. Uh Fred is a little bit older than us.

• 21:58Fred Taylor?

  There come this.

• 21:59Ryan Clark?

  Uh, you know, recently he lost a close friend that he was born around the same time with Dick Buckus. Shout out to the legend. And so he's a he's a little bit older than.

• 22:10Fred Taylor?

  I'm forty-seven, dawg.

• 22:15Ryan Clark?

  You know, but

• 22:16Speaker 04

  You gotta deal with this shit.

• 22:19Ryan Clark?

  Talk about social media and social media. I do believe it's it's good at certain times to, you know, show things about us that we care about. From following you, it's obvious you care about your babies. And you know, you've said it's the the best thing I've ever done. I feel the exact same way about mine. But along with that and along with how people want to consume content constantly, especially about celebrities, you've had to deal with a ton of relationship things that I feel like people want to deal with privately. You've actually asked the world through social media or told the world, we are going to deal with this privately.

• 23:00Ryan Clark?

  But there's so many misconceptions, there's so many, there's so much misinformation as well. How have you dealt with that in wanting to be the best you could possibly be to your family?

• 23:13Speaker 04

  If you've really paid attention to me in regard to all of those situations, you'll notice that I don't say nothing. I rarely have a comeback for any of that because I also realize that the more attention I give it, you know, the bigger it grows. It's like, you know, I can put gasoline on that fire more than anybody else can, you know. But at the same time.

• 23:38Speaker 00

  Blowing ad budget on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them? That's bull spend and marketers are calling it out in Dashboard Confessions.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it it wasn't.

• 23:56Speaker 00

  Cut the bull spend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com/campaign. Terms and conditions apply.

• 24:08Speaker 04

  I just don't, I I. I care, but I don't care. And I, what I mean by that is this. My personal life is mine. There are aspects of my personal life that I choose to keep private because it ain't nobody's business. You know what I mean? That's just, that's just the long and short of it. It ain't your business. And mind you, everybody, like, we already, we already covered. Everyone has an opinion. Everyone is free and entitled to voice their opinion. And people take advantage of that, that right all the time. But I just can't allow myself to explain things to people that ain't got nothing to do with them. It's like, okay, um, I, I, you know, me and my wife, we got a divorce, you know? I made some mistakes.

• 24:53Speaker 04

  I made some absolutely terrible and horrible mistakes. You know, I've been exalted by the people that I've wronged. I've been forgiven. Why do I give a damn what y'all think about it at that point? You know what I mean? Me and my ex-wife are in a great place now. You know, as of right now, our focus, our only focus, and mind you, this is everybody's focus, everybody involved in the situation, is making sure that our children know love. That's it. That's it. They healthy, they happy, they know love. And anything else outside of that really don't mean much or nothing. It's like, you know, I tell, I tell the mothers of my children, listen, we don't have to be besties, okay? We ain't gotta call each other every Saturday and ask what we doing and figure out ways to get, we ain't gotta do none of that. That don't have to happen.

• 25:36Speaker 04

  What we do have to do is make sure that these kids is all right. And that's, that's the part that, that, that's the most important part to me. And then as far as people and what they think and, and the opinions that they give, you can only judge me based off of the information that you have or think you have, you know? It is not then my obligation to come in and fill in the blanks for you. That's not my obligation. You know, if I wasn't who I am, you probably wouldn't give a damn. Why? Because it ain't none of your business. Yeah. And that's just what that is. Again, and I understand what it is to be a celebrity and people go, well, you know, it's, that's, that's part of it. You know, there is no, there, there are very few celebrities that get to do anything behind closed doors and they stay behind closed doors.

• 26:19Speaker 04

  You know, even things that should remain behind closed doors. That's just kind of what it is to be a celebrity. You put yourself out there, you ask the world to accept and love you, and you gotta deal with the good and bad that comes with that. I've heard that, that's, that's been said to me before. Yeah. That may be true in some cases, but in my case, the only part of me that I've ever asked anybody to love is my music. I ain't never asked nobody to love me. I ain't never asked you to accept me or accept what I do, who I am as a father, who I am as a husband. I'm not your father, I'm not your husband. And when you listen to my music, you're not thinking about me, you're thinking about your father. You're thinking about your husband. And I don't need to be invited to the wedding, but you could play my song at the reception.

• 27:02Speaker 04

  And we good. That's all I've ever asked anyone to deal with me in regard to, you know?

• 27:10Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 27:11Speaker 04

  And I just, you know, I love my fans and I love everybody that has allowed my music to be a part of, you know, these special and timeless moments in their life. But as far as what you think about me as a person, it means absolutely nothing to me. It doesn't because I'm not perfect. I ain't never said I was perfect. I ain't never said I was above a mistake. And if you gonna cancel or condemn me because I made a mistake, alright, well, that's your prerogative. The sun is gonna come up tomorrow, my kids gotta eat. So I'm gonna focus on those two things and let whoever feel however feel that. Because the truth of the matter is, they gonna feel it anyway. Like, if you just got it made up in your mind that you're gonna misunderstand me,

• 27:56Speaker 04

  why would I waste any more time trying to explain anything to you? You've decided to feel this way about me. You've decided to have this opinion of me. You've made it, you've made it up in your mind, this is who I am. Okay, well, if your mind is made up, then why am I wasting time and breath trying to explain otherwise to you? It don't make any sense?

• 28:17Channing Crowder?

  Father of seven, right?

• 28:18Speaker 04

  Yes, sir.

• 28:19Channing Crowder?

  Seven. Because I got, my son, I got a 12-year-old. And now he's trying to, like you say, the social media stuff. He wants the Instagrams and all that stuff. But like, I'm thinking about all the stuff we talk about on this show, and I'm very revealing with different stuff, arrest and all that kind of stuff. Like, protecting the babies, though. Because like you say, the hell with everybody else. But now, at some point, my son's gonna come up and ask me about these sex stories. You know what I'm saying? So like, from that standpoint of, yeah, the hell with them, but now I gotta... How do you do that at the level of fame you are? I will never be as famous as you are. How do you do that?

• 28:51Speaker 04

  I don't hide much from my kids. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not, you know, sitting down with my kids going, "All right, and look what blog daddy was in today, guys." I'm not doing that.

• 29:01Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 29:02Speaker 04

  But at the same time, you know, when me and my wife split up, I sat with my kids and we had a conversation about it. Like, my kids are mature enough to, for me to be able to do that. Like, look, here's the situation. What I've learned about children is that if you make it a big deal, it becomes a big deal. Right? If you approach it like it's just sad and, you know, woe is me situation, "Oh, me and mama, we don't love each other no more." And if you turn it into that, then that's how they're gonna take it. Like, I didn't take that approach with my children. You know, I came to my children like, "Listen, this does not mean that we don't love each other. It simply means that we've figured out that we're better friends and now y'all have an additional house to go to every other weekend if you feel like it. You can stay at mommy's house. You can stay at daddy's house. You can stay at granny's house.

• 29:47Speaker 04

  You can stay at TT's house." It's just about the way, the way that you approach it with kids. You know, that whole concept of if your little man fall down, if you go, "Oh, oh, oh, oh," he gonna start crying. But if you let him fall and let him get back up on his own, he'll be all right. It's the same concept. You make it a big deal, and it becomes a big deal. You make it something that they don't have to, you know, they don't have to be bothered by it. They won't be bothered by it, the kids. They're impressionable. I don't feel the need to hide anything from them because we live in the information age. At some point, you're gonna see it. Like, no matter what you do, at some point, be it one of your little friends at school bring it to you. I could say, "No iPad, no phone,"

• 30:32Speaker 04

  you know, and they're gonna go to school and somebody will bring it. Some way, somehow, it's gonna get to them. So, I feel like the best thing that you can do is just make sure that they're prepared when it gets to them. Don't let it be a shock to them when it gets to them. Like, I know that already. You ain't getting... I know. Yeah, this happened. I'm aware. What else? That's the standpoint my kids can take because daddy didn't already talk to them about it. You know, mommy didn't already talk to them about it in a way that a child can understand.

• 30:59Fred Taylor?

  I love that mindset. I want to pivot back in music, though.

• 31:02Speaker 04

  Yes, sir.

• 31:03Fred Taylor?

  Year of the Gentleman, critically acclaimed classic. I'm sure we appreciate you for it. I always wanted to know, right? So you have these artists and you grow up, you listen to them and they're amazing. And then they kind of disappear for a while. Not saying that they're not active, but you're like, damn, I want more. You know, I'm a fan of this person. I want more. One, you've been in the game for so long. I guess, one, how do you stay motivated to continue to create amazing music, whether that's singing or writing, you know, for others? Much like Usher, who's had this resurgence with his residency in Vegas. Do we expect, or can we expect to see something from you like that in the future?

• 31:45Speaker 04

  The first part of your question, how do I stay motivated? I, okay, fun fact about me, I do this because I love it. I write music because I love it. If there was no money in music anymore, you'd still find me in the studio somewhere. Like, it's my therapy, it's what I do, it's my video games. That's what music is to me. And, you know, I've always made mu... I won't say always. There was definitely a point where I let the industry steal a little bit of my joy because it took this thing that I loved so much and turned it into a means to be popular. Or, you know, or if you, or if, God forbid, you weren't popular, all of a sudden you were no... you weren't good anymore. You know what I mean?

• 32:30Speaker 04

  As if the number of eyes looking at what you're doing validates the quality of it.

• 32:37Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 32:37Speaker 04

  And that ain't the case. If 2 million people come to the show, if two people come to the show, me and them two people gonna rock out. We gonna have the greatest time of our life because I am on stage doing something that I love to do. It doesn't come from how many people know what I'm doing, how many people know my name, how many albums are sold. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think that that's where a lot of artists get wrapped up and then you start chasing the world. You know what I'm saying? You start chasing trends and fads and now you look like the old dude in the club. What are you doing here? This ain't for you. Why are you... what are you... That's never gonna happen to me because I'm not about... A trend or a fad, I don't really care if my room, if my name is the biggest name in the room.

• 33:23Speaker 04

  I don't, I'm not, that's not what I'm in it for. You know, if you're not, if you're not in it chasing that, then you don't fall into those traps of the, "Oh, they, they rapping like that now?" Alright, well, let me, let me.

• 33:35Speaker 04

  Listen, this is what I do. And I know that, I know for a fact that I do this well. And I know for a fact that I do this from the heart, and anything that you do from the heart, you're typically gonna do well. And anything that you do well, typically the people that are supposed to catch you and find you, will catch you and find you. Right. You know, now, how many people that is? If you allow that, if you allow that to be a motivating factor as to why you do what you do, well, you might be disappointed because it might be two people today. Correct. It might be five people today. It might be five million people next week, like you have no idea. You get, you can't do it from that place. You can't do it from a place of, "Alright, I gotta make this money." Anything that you took, that you take that and allow, and allow that to be the motivating factor becomes hollow.

• 34:18Speaker 04

  You done took the passion out of it, you done took the love out of it. So not, so it's not, it's, it's not gonna be as fulfilling and authentic as you want it to be. Because you doing it for, you doing it for a shallow reason. I do this because I love it. And if nobody ever bought a Neo album or song ever again in life, me and my kids will have the most amazing dance parties in my damn basement. Every other night to daddy's music, and I'd be cool with that. Right. Cause my, my, my son is my biggest fan.

• 34:50Speaker 04

  I'm good.

• 34:51Ryan Clark?

  Hey fellas, it's week eight, and it's the same thing with us. We still partner with DraftKings. And if any new customer that signs up, use the promo code ADJUST, place a $5 bet, instantly $200 in bonus bets.

• 35:03Channing Crowder?

  Y'all know I'ma tell y'all to get the same game parlays, but you know what DraftKings gonna do? If you lose, they gonna give you a bonus bet. Come on now, DraftKings watching out.

• 35:12Ryan Clark?

  Man, that's a chanting crowd of kinda bet.

• 35:13Fred Taylor?

  Hey, listen, all I know is, is get this little device. Get you an account and then you get money. Easy. Do everything they said. Make it happen.

• 35:22Ryan Clark?

  Hey, get your mobile devices out. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app. Any new customer using promo code ADJUST, place a $5 NFL bet and you instantly get $200 in bonus bets. Now, back to the show.

• 35:35Channing Crowder?

  You're amazing, obviously. Grammy Award winning, like, everybody knows your, you know, your discography and all that stuff.

• 35:41Speaker 04

  What's that?

• 35:41Channing Crowder?

  Why are you?

• 35:42Speaker 04

  Discography?

• 35:43Channing Crowder?

  Discography? What's that? Discography?

• 35:45Speaker 04

  That's what it's called.

• 35:45Channing Crowder?

  That's what it is?

• 35:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's... I'm proud of you.

• 35:48Channing Crowder?

  Damn.

• 35:49Speaker 04

  Something made me say fuck you in front of Neo.

• 35:53Fred Taylor?

  He already said it.

• 35:55Speaker 04

  It was passive aggressive, like, he insulted you in a compliment. You see how he do us? Like, woo, that was a big work, brother. Hey, I'm gonna tell you this. Neo can't come back. He caused a lot of mess. You know what I'm saying? He started a lot of mess, dog. Okay, like I threw the rock and hit my hand. Yeah, he's very famous. Like I did that.

• 36:14Channing Crowder?

  Because we've even, like, look at the name comes from.

• 36:16Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 36:17Channing Crowder?

  Somebody said that you see music like Neo saw The Matrix. Like, it's different. Like, what does that mean? Like, why are you better at music than pretty much the world? What makes... For real, man, honestly, like, he played safety. He would knock your damn head off. He was smart as hell. This man ran a 4-2 at 240, like...

• 36:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was ridiculous.

• 36:36Channing Crowder?

  You knew why they was special. Why are you special at this?

• 36:39Speaker 04

  I don't know, man. I...

• 36:42Speaker 04

  That is a good question. What makes Neo special? I think that I understand the power of music. I think that I understand the concept that the right lyric can change your day. Like, the right song will make you rethink your outfit before you leave the house. The right song will make you, you know, make you do something stupid behind that girl that you know is stupid, but you do it anyway. Like, the right song will inspire you and motivate you to do that. Music is vibration, frequency, emotion.

• 37:12Speaker 04

  It can change your belief system. It can, it can, can change an idea, it can change a thought. It breaks down barriers. You know, I remember the first time I went to Japan and I was tripping because it's like, I, I don't speak any Japanese. How am I gonna communicate with these people? Music. It's a music festival. It's 30,000 people that I can't speak to. But as soon as they heard ding, ding, ding, ding, we all spoke the same language in that moment. They sang every word. I don't know if they knew what they were saying, but they sang every damn word. And that was when I knew, like, this is not, this is a power that you're not supposed to toy with. To this day, I don't understand how a person can write a song about nothing. About nothing. You're literally holding an atom bomb in your hand and you trying to play tennis with it.

• 37:57Speaker 04

  Like, that don't make no damn sense. You can change things with music. And I think that, in that I understand that, it just makes my songs hit a little different. Because I'm, I'm respecting the power of music when I do what I do. I'm understanding that in this moment, I could be the reason that you and your wife go home and argue or make love. I know that I could, I could be the, I could be the, the deciding factor in that with this song or with this performance. You know what I mean? I'm aware of that power and I, and I respect that power.

• 38:31Speaker 00

  Flowing ad budget on metrics that look great, till the CFO sees them, that's bull spend. And marketers are calling it out in Dashboard Confessions.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  I remember telling my boss, "It'll be good for the brand," when leads were slow. Yeah, it, it wasn't.

• 38:48Speaker 00

  Cut the bull spend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title, and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com/campaign. Terms and conditions apply.

• 39:01Speaker 04

  Aids that power is not as respected as it once was.

• 39:04Ryan Clark?

  My question to you that really interested me when, you know, we found out we get an opportunity to sit down with you is... We look at people's bodies of work as them, right? Like, you know, like, you know how Ignite Folks did the cookout? Like, we all feel like we like depressed Mary J. Right? When Mary J makes a happy song, black people really be mad. You know what I'm saying? Like, "Oh, we don't want her to be happy. We want her to say not go cry." You know what I mean? And, but for you, you are writing for others as well. What is your creative process like? How do you put yourself in that place to say, "Okay, I do have that atom bomb.

• 39:48Ryan Clark?

  And I'm not gonna play tennis with it for me for sure," right? Because when Neo sings that, we're attaching that to you. But like I said, there's so many songs, I just realized, were written by you. How do you put yourself in that place to care that much for other people as well?

• 40:05Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, okay, so it's no secret to anybody that I write a lot of love songs, or songs based in and around the black, white, and gray of love. There is a method to that madness that is absolutely on purpose because love is an energy that will never go out of style. It may not be the most, uh, the most popular topic at the coffee table right in the moment. However, it ranks right up there with oxygen, food, water. You need it to live. A lot of people don't realize it, but you need it. It's, it's, it's an energy that is needed and necessary to maintain this life. So I stay in that place because I feel like everybody in some way, shape, form, or fashion has experienced the black, white, or gray of love.

• 40:50Speaker 04

  Be it the bad part of it, the good part of it, the, the I'm not certain part of it, the, the fact that love and infatuation is cousins that look just like each other sometimes. Everybody has experienced that in some way. And I figure, uh, if I'm writing for a person that I don't have the luxury of being able to call personally, like, "Hey, so, writing a song like this." Would you say this? Like, if I can't do that, then I keep it in that realm. I keep it in the realm of love and relationship. And just knowing that everybody, you know, everybody can't...

• 41:22Speaker 04

  Doc everywhere, but everybody can dock there. You know, everybody can dock there in some way, shape, form, fashion. You know, I'mma let the fact that it's a love song be enough to grasp your attention. And then from there, now we gonna get on the phone, you gonna say, okay. But I would say this, or I would handle it this way. Now I can custom make it to what it is you want. But initially, the foundation, the base of it is gonna be love. And, you know, what that is in the, in the black, white, or gray of.

• 41:51Ryan Clark?

  Hey, man, you don't get tired of love. Sometimes love just sucks.

• 41:55Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 41:56Ryan Clark?

  You know what I mean? You don't ever go to the studio and say, you know what? We gonna dance today because...

• 42:01Speaker 04

  We can dance to love. We can dance to anti-love. One of my biggest songs is anti-love. Why can't, so sick of love songs. Why can't I turn off the radio? That's the beautiful thing about love. It's multifaceted. It ain't just waterfalls and butterflies and... Nah, everybody know that ain't real. Not all the time.

• 42:19Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 42:20Speaker 04

  Not all the time. But if you can write about the good part of it and the bad part of it, and that middle area where you, what are we? When you get to ask those kinda questions, you know, I hate that question. So what are we exactly? What are we?

• 42:35Ryan Clark?

  I feel like the what are we always come at a...

• 42:37Speaker 04

  I am annoyed by that question.

• 42:38Ryan Clark?

  It always come at a great time. You feel like the relationship going good. You just chilling, you love the place you are. What are we? And immediately, you hate the relationship.

• 42:45Speaker 04

  Right.

• 42:46Fred Taylor?

  We all say the same dumb answer. We good.

• 42:52Fred Taylor?

  We cool.

• 42:54Ryan Clark?

  We damn dummy.

• 42:56Speaker 04

  I mean, we good, we, you know, what you... Say, we good.

• 42:59Ryan Clark?

  Oh, it be like, we chilling.

• 43:02Fred Taylor?

  White, black, and gray. I thought you was talking about his shoes and socks.

• 43:05Speaker 04

  No.

• 43:07Fred Taylor?

  Nah, seriously, I wanna ask you.

• 43:10Speaker 04

  What sort of, what sort of energy? You got a poet's spirit in there. I see how you flip that.

• 43:13Fred Taylor?

  Can you write for anybody?

• 43:16Speaker 04

  Can I what?

• 43:16Fred Taylor?

  Write for anybody, like any artist. Can you write for Sexy Red?

• 43:21Speaker 04

  Yes, yes, I could. It'll be the most intelligent song she's ever done. Yes, I could write it.

• 43:28Fred Taylor?

  Like off the top, can you like two bars, two lines?

• 43:31Speaker 04

  Two lines for Sexy Red? Right. Oh, no, that's gonna require me to sit and really think about making that right. You know, "Much love to Sexy Red, I ain't got no beef with you, mom, we good."

• 43:41Fred Taylor?

  Oh, no, no, no, not for sure. I just wanna see like where it can kinda show a different side of her as well. You know, cause she gets a certain type of...

• 43:50Speaker 04

  She's in the best possible space right now. She's shown us one element of herself, which means there is so much room to grow into whatever the case may be. You know what I mean? So she's in a great place right now. You know, the element that she's shown us, people have, you know, choose to like or dislike or whatever the case may be. But in that she's only shown us that one element. Sky's the limit, she can go wherever. So I could write Sexy Red her first love song about being in love with somebody that you can't get close to. I could write that song for Sexy Red, cause I'm sure that she could relate.

• 44:25Ryan Clark?

  That brought up a point, and I wanna approach this extremely delicately. You said something about Sexy Red, which I in no way thought was offensive. And you immediately went, "Much love to Sexy Red, though I got nothing against her." Right? And it's, we are all in that place where we can say we don't care what people think, and we could truly mean that. But it doesn't mean that the perception of what we say and how people can misunderstand that and then regurgitate that doesn't affect us, it doesn't affect our bottom line, it doesn't affect the way that we're able to move, it doesn't affect the way that people want to do business with us.

• 45:08Ryan Clark?

  And then we have people who tell us, "Okay, maybe you should apologize for this, maybe you should backtrack on that." How have you navigated being true to Neo?

• 45:19Ryan Clark?

  Right, saying things that you truly feel. And then also realizing that, once those things are part of the media cycle and that opinion starts to be part of that criticism, how do you navigate, okay, this is okay to leave out there? This is okay for people to think about me? This is okay? Or this, I have to correct? Because it can affect me in other ways, other than just my feelings?

• 45:46Speaker 04

  I don't think that there's anything wrong with making it clear to, you know, an individual that I mean you no harm. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Because if I genuinely mean you no harm, then why? Why is it a big deal? Why, why would it be difficult for me to make sure that you understand? Look, I ain't got no beef with you. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. However, if you, all of a sudden, feel like I need to apologize for having an opinion about something, well, that's totally different. Because again, as we've been talking about it all day, everybody is entitled to their opinion. It's yours, and you can feel how you want to feel, and you can express it when you want to express it. So, so for somebody to feel like you should apologize for giving your opinion on something,

• 46:30Speaker 04

  when you are, in fact, an individual with an opinion, I don't, I don't agree with that, and I will never agree with that. You know what I mean? And I, I just, I just think that that's another form of bullying, that's another form of just... I don't, I don't, I don't rock with that. If you are allowed to feel the way you feel loudly and flamboyantly and big to, to, for all the world to see, you're allowed to say, this is who I am, this is what I do, this is what I am, whatever the case may be. If you're allowed to do that, at the top of your lungs, you're standing on a soapbox, I am allowed to equally disagree with you. I'm allowed.

• 47:08Ryan Clark?

  And having dealt with that... You know, in your career and recently as you've you've grown to understand that, is there ever a time, man, you're just like, shoot, I just want to retreat and and just not be seen? Not talk, not give that opinion, not speak, which is part of branding and marketing and continuing to let people know that you're here to do a job. But is it ever like, man, listen, I just want to retreat to do what I love, which is right, which is make music and not have to be a part of the media cycle that helps you? But in a lot of times, also, people use it against you.

• 47:47Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, yeah, and and when I need those moments, that's exactly what I do. You know, I I'll I'll get in my studio and, you know, I I'll fly me and my crew to Jamaica and we'll be out there for a week just cutting, you know, phones off. We ain't we ain't dealing with the world this week. We we in here, we doing what we doing. And then once we done, once we once we're recharged, all right, now let's get back in the storm. Yeah, I feel like everybody needs that from time to time. And it ain't nothing wrong with taking them moments. It ain't nothing wrong with turning your damn phone off for the day or just not going to IG today. You know, it ain't nothing wrong with that. It ain't nothing wrong with giving yourself a break from all that and coming back into your reality and your moment. You know, the past is gone and tomorrow ain't promised. You got right this second, it's really all that you have. Ever think about that?

• 48:32Speaker 04

  Like, the past, the only way to get back to the past is in here.

• 48:36Ryan Clark?

  Mm hmm.

• 48:37Speaker 04

  Because they ain't figured out how to time travel yet. So the only way that you can get back to that thing that hurt you back there or that thing that upset you or whatever it was is in here, which means you have to physically do it. You got to go in your head and go and pull that memory back up. Same thing with the future. Can't get, it ain't no way for us to get there before we supposed to be there. The only way to do it is to go in here. So the only thing you really truly have is right here, right now. So why would I focus on that over there? That ain't even happened yet. Or that back there that happened and I can't change? I can't do nothing about it? It happened, it was what it was. I'm gonna put my focus right here. I'm gonna put my focus right here in this moment, and I'm not going to concern myself with things that aren't necessary to concern myself. It's like anxiety is the future, depression is the past.

• 49:21Speaker 04

  If you live in the moment, you can avoid both.

• 49:25Fred Taylor?

  You recently performed at the White House, and also Mike Rubens' Fourth of July White Party.

• 49:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, man.

• 49:31Fred Taylor?

  What are those experiences like? Because it would seem that this is one end of the spectrum, and then you got crazy, a lot of celebrities, a lot of crazy shit at Mike Rubens'. What has been your favorite or most memorable performance in your career, along with that?

• 49:47Speaker 04

  Well, performing at the White House was dope because it was a Fourth of July celebration. I got to take all of my kids with me. All seven of my children were there. Well, no, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. The youngest, the baby wasn't there. But the six other, my six other kids was there with my mom and my sister. You know, my son broke something that's supposed to be priceless, and they let it slide. I thank you to the White House, whichever camera. Thank you for not making me pay for that.

• 50:14Fred Taylor?

  What was it?

• 50:14Speaker 04

  It was some sort of vase or something, I don't know. Your kid broke a vase at the White House? And I was like, I'm sorry, I'll replace it. And they were like, you can't.

• 50:32Fred Taylor?

  Damn. You left y'all those niggas home.

• 50:35Speaker 04

  Not gonna be able to go to the store and buy another one of those.

• 50:39Speaker 04

  But no, it was a dope, it was a dope experience. I did not know that Joe Biden was a Neo fan. I ain't mad at that. All right, cool, Joe, thank you, appreciate it. He actually sat on the balcony and watched the whole show, which I thought was cool because they told me that he don't do that. All right, well, damn, cool. If I ever need a favor, I'm gonna hit you up, Joe. All white party, that was, it's, it's, it just feels good to me to be appreciated in both, in both spectrums. You know, whichever, whichever, wherever you, wherever your opinion puts you at, it's like, people that appreciate my music.

• 51:12Speaker 04

  The president, celebrities,

• 51:15Speaker 04

  it's all blessings to me.

• 51:16Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 51:16Speaker 04

  It's all blessings to me at the end of the day. Most memorable performance ever?

• 51:23Speaker 04

  Might have been just recently. I performed in Brazil at a music festival. And it was like a hundred thousand plus people there. Like, just a literal sea of people. It's like, to the point where it don't even look like people no more. It's just, you know what I mean? And, and the love was so real, man. It was so, it was deafening, you know? Just the noise and the energy, like, it was electric. And I never forget that. If ever I get into that place where I start feeling underappreciated, which is rare, I can really pull up memories like that. You know, eighty thousand people at Wembley Stadium, all jumping up and down at the same time, "Grab somebody sexy, tell 'em."

• 52:08Speaker 04

  Eighty thousand, the building is shaking, you know what I mean? Off of a line that I wrote in the bathroom.

• 52:14Ryan Clark?

  Damn.

• 52:15Speaker 04

  It puts it in perspective for you. It's like, in the moment, I have no idea. I'm writing "We'll Feel Good Tonight." "I want all of you tonight. Give me every..." Yeah, that works. Go to the record and dang it. Eighty thousand people, yeah, man.

• 52:35Ryan Clark?

  That just made that song so disgusting, no doubt. Like, that's a jam, too, man. And now, every time you hear it, you be like, "Ay, ay." But it's gonna be the coolest story I can tell people. You know Neo was on Toilet when, you know? You know when you get old, talking to your homeboy? You know, I was hanging out, Neo. Yeah, he wrote that on the toilet.

• 52:54Speaker 04

  On the toilet, yes.

• 52:55Ryan Clark?

  That was in between poop one and two.

• 52:59Channing Crowder?

  Oh, he gonna name drop you, Neo.

• 53:00Speaker 04

  A few of my records have happened that way. Oddly enough, the toilet is a place where you can center and focus, you know what I'm talking about?

• 53:08Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, you get shit out in there.

• 53:09Speaker 04

  There you go.

• 53:11Channing Crowder?

  That's crazy you say that, 'cause I was gonna say, like, how far into a song? Like, when you writing a song, do you ever know, "Oh, I got this bad motherfucker here," or you gotta actually?

• 53:19Speaker 04

  Aw, man. So, to be honest with you, I don't never know what's gonna hit. I really and truly don't, bro. Like, I don't. And the few times that I've ever gone to a studio like, "All right, today I'm going to write a hit." It didn't happen. Like, you know, because that, putting that pressure on yourself before you even get started is the surefire way to make sure that nothing is gonna come out of that session. Because you done set the bar too high. Like, now, I go in the studio and just go, "You know what? Wherever my artistic integrity and passion takes me is where we gonna go today." It could be a hook on a hip-hop song, could be the best R&B record I've ever written, could be a pop record. I have no idea. We just gonna go in here and do what feel good and then hope that the world follows suit. I will say this.

• 54:03Speaker 04

  I have one member of my team, my manager. Everybody calls him Tango. Tango, when I first met him, did not have a radio in his truck, but was telling me that he was gonna manage my music career. I was like, "Nigga, you don't even listen to music. How are you gonna make that make sense, pal?" Like, you don't... There's no radio. We roll around in silence, like, forced to talk to each other types. But he's never been wrong. Ever. He's always picked the one. Like, and it'll be a situation where like, the whole room is like, "Nah, man, it's number two." Tango was like, "Mm-mm, number three." Really? Watch. Go for it, go for it. And sure, he's never been wrong.

• 54:48Speaker 04

  My song "Closer." Like, when I wrote "Closer," I wrote it to sell it. Because I didn't feel like... At the time, I didn't feel like my fanbase was gonna understand that coming from me. So, my plan was to sell it. So, I got finished with it. I'm like, "Yeah, we gonna sell this easy." They was like, "Sell it? Nah, bro, that's yours. You better keep that." I'm like, "Nah, I don't want to keep this. This is...

• 55:10Speaker 04

  I'm good. Let's get it to somebody to do that." And they're like, "Bro." It's the one. "This is your song." Wow. It was Tango and Jay-Z. They were the two people, the two, that believed in that record. Everybody else was like, "Mm, I mean, okay." And then they decided to make it a single. I'm like, "Yo, do y'all not like me? Are y'all trying to... Are y'all trying to sink the ship? Like, this is not... This is not gonna..." Song comes out, first two months, nobody cared. And I'm like, "See, I told y'all." We went to the label to have a meeting with them about changing singles. Before I got in the door good, Jay-Z stopped me like, "Bro, do not get off this record." I understand, and they working right now? Do not get off this record.

• 55:53Speaker 04

  I promise you, when they get it, they gonna get it. Damn, as I'm about to walk into LA Reid's office and tell him, "Yeah, let's switch singles." And he go, "You know what? We good where we at." "I'll go with it." Damn. That year, we did the BET Awards, and I performed a record. And I don't know if people just needed to know, to be shown how to rock with it or whatever, but after that performance,

• 56:20Speaker 04

  that shit became a rocket. It took off, and we never looked back. And to this day, Tango can hit me with a universal "I told you so"

• 56:28Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 56:29Speaker 04

  that he takes advantage of every chance he get.

• 56:31Ryan Clark?

  Wow.

• 56:31Speaker 04

  Every chance he get.

• 56:33Ryan Clark?

  I mean, shoot, Tango and Jay-Z, though. I mean, I don't know Tango well. I know Jay-Z. He no hits.

• 56:40Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 56:41Ryan Clark?

  Chan, is this good? Oh, it's delicious, bro. It's new flavor? The new joint? Yeah, man, cherry limeade. You look like a cherry limeade drinker. Some teams probably made this for you. I'm a little kid, pal. I drink some sweet flavors.

• 56:56Fred Taylor?

  Mine is done.

• 56:57Ryan Clark?

  Man, the question we always ask, and especially with you such a multifaceted career, also successful on so many different levels, is, what's your biggest pivot? What's the moment in your life that you look to as whether it's a turning point, whether it's something that motivated you to be different, to work differently, or something in your personal life that is, whether it's affected you or inspired you in a way that the Neo we see sitting before us is not there or not here without that moment?

• 57:31Speaker 04

  Hmm. Around my second album. I remember it was the Virgin Mega Store, Superstore, whatever they are, in New York. It don't exist no more. And we were doing a signing, a meet and greet. You know, people come up with their CD. This is where the CD still. People come up with their CD or their poster. You sign it, take a picture, they go back to business, right? There's this guy standing in the line. Mind you, this is my second album, so my fan base is primarily female. And you got this one middle-aged white dude standing in line with all women. So, right away, security is like...

• 58:07Speaker 04

  Right? He's like, "All right, we watching this dude," right? So he gets in front of the line. He's not holding a CD, he's not holding a poster, nothing. He walks up and he says, "Bro, I was gonna kill myself yesterday, and then your song came on, and I didn't do it. Thank you." And he walked away.

• 58:31Speaker 04

  That shit shook me to my core in that moment, because it was just such a, it was just a weird, like, right now, I'm chill just thinking about it. But what that did for me is, made me realize that power that I was talking about earlier. Music is not just words and pretty melodies. Music is a power. Music is an energy. And it can change, it can change your thought, it can change your belief, it can save a damn life.

• 59:00Ryan Clark?

  Damn.

• 59:00Speaker 04

  Like, at this point, no disrespect to award shows and all of that, but for a person to come up to me and tell me that, you know, their first dance was one of my records, that's bigger than any award I'll ever be granted. That's that. That means more to me than any of the other stuff that's supposed to mean so much. You know what I mean? It's like, I feel more appreciation in that moment than I would standing at a panel in front of my peers, holding a little trophy, like, "Wow, this thing's heavy." Um, what, eh. I saved a life with a song. He didn't tell me what song, he didn't have to. Ain't a matter. I saved a life with a song. He brought your baby into this world with one of my songs. You decided you want to spend the rest of your life with this person,

• 59:44Speaker 04

  and one of my songs was a part of that. That's why this Neo is sitting here.

• 59:51Ryan Clark?

  Wow.

• 59:51Speaker 04

  For that.

• 59:53Ryan Clark?

  Now, that's a...

• 59:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:54Ryan Clark?

  That's a wrap, bro. That's amazing. We appreciate your time, dawg. Damn. That was dope. Thank you, sir. Yes, sir. Amen. Here, do you feel, you mentioned it kind of earlier. Do you feel like a Respect. a responsibility to make music age with you?

• 1:00:33Speaker 06

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