The Transformational Technique Of Intermittent Fasting EP 1333

With over 20 years experience in health and wellness, Cynthia Thurlow is a globally recognized expert in intermittent fasting and women’s health. Thurlow is a nurse practitioner, author of the best selling book, Intermittent Fasting Transformation, andhost of the Everyday Wellness Podcast and co-host of The Intermittent Fasting Podcast. Her mission is to educate women on the benefits of intermittent fasting and overall holistic health and wellness, so they feel empowered to live their most optimal lives. In this episode you will learn,Tips for your digestive health that optimizes your wellbeing. About what’s considered healthy when it comes to bowel movements. What beginners need to learn about intermittent fasting. Why better sleep comes from eating less at night. For more, go to lewishowes.com/1333How Nutrition, Exercise, Tech & Sex Affect Your Sleep w/Andrew Huberman: https://link.chtbl.com/1219-podWhy Building Muscle Is The Key To Lifelong Weight Loss & Higher Life Expectancy w/Gabrielle Lyon https://link.chtbl.com/1267-pod6 Ways To Optimize Your Hormone Health & Why It Matters w/Kyle Gillett https://link.chtbl.com/1315-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Cynthia Thurlow?

  We've taught our patients for so many years, eat snacks, eat mini meals, stoke your metabolism. I'm here to tell people that our bodies intrinsically are designed to go longer periods without eating.

• 0:11Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:35Lewis Howes?

  And I'm curious, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. What is the science showing us when we do a 24-hour fast and a 48-hour fast? What is actually happening to our bodies? Is it healing our body? Is the autophagy settling in or starting at 24 hours? What is the science that happens after 24 hours of water-only fasting?

• 0:56Cynthia Thurlow?

  Well, first and foremost, congratulations on being almost two days into a fast and you feel fantastic.

• 1:01Lewis Howes?

  Thank you.

• 1:01Cynthia Thurlow?

  But I think that when we're talking about fasting, I think most people think about intermittent fasting. So these shorter intervals. But with longer episodes of fasting, you really get into deeper autophagy, which is this waste and recycling process that goes on behind the scenes when we're in an unfed state. And this is particularly important, you know, given the last two and a half years where we've had a lot of illness and concerns about illness. We get upregulation and, you know, other principal stem cell activation over, you know, two to three days' worth of fasting. I think a lot of people don't even understand that giving ourselves that period of digestive rest can really help heal the gut. I mean, how many of us have leaky gut and autoimmune disorders?

• 1:42Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so I think on a lot of levels, there is this improvement in biophysical markers. We know we get, you know, lowered insulin levels, which allows our bodies to be much more efficient and be able to use different types of fuel substrates. So not only fatty acids, but also glucose and getting into a point where our bodies can use ketones. That's why you have so much energy of all that mental clarity. Because your body's really just functioning on optimizing your health as opposed to, you know, the chronic eat every two to three hours and, you know, kind of the kind of traditional methodology. But the longer we fast, we're really looking at upregulation of autophagy, reduction in inflammation, improvement in... Biophysical markers, if you fast long enough, usually closer to four to five days,

• 2:26Cynthia Thurlow?

  you're getting stem cell activation.

• 2:28Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 2:28Cynthia Thurlow?

  And for a lot of people, yeah, and for a lot of people, that's a huge benefit that they're looking for. You get improvement in telomere length, which is some of the key anti-aging benefits of fasting. And so I think on a lot of levels, people think about intermittent fasting as these shorter intervals, but there are benefits from doing longer fasts as well, kind of shaking things up.

• 2:46Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. What, is there different benefits for, for men and women, you know, 24, two days, three days? Is it, is it hurt the other gender? The longer you go, does it affect hormones? How does it all work for men and women?

• 3:00Cynthia Thurlow?

  Oh, it's a great question. I, I think men and menopausal women, so women who've not had a menstrual cycle for more than 12 months, they're in unique categories. There's not just, not as much hormonal fluctuation, so they can generally fast when they want to, whereas younger women, especially younger, under the age of 35, still at peak fertile years, I'm a little more cautious. I always say fast for your menstrual cycle. So there's times in your menstrual cycle when you can get away with fasting, times you should back off, and then perimenopause is kind of this nebulous time. You know, that's 10 to 15 years before women go through menopause.

• 3:33Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 3:34Cynthia Thurlow?

  It can be a time when women have to be a little more careful about their lifestyle.

• 3:37Lewis Howes?

  So after 35, when should women fast and for how long?

• 3:41Cynthia Thurlow?

  It's a good question. I think it's really dependent on the individual. So typically, I say if you're, you know, late 30s, early 40s, and you're in the follicular phase, so for the time from when you start bleeding until ovulation, women can get away with quite a bit of fasting.

• 3:56Lewis Howes?

  So you can fast during that time?

• 3:57Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah, fasting during that time is generally not an issue, but you've got to dial in on sleep and stress and right types of exercise and anti-inflammatory nutrition. So it gets a little more nuanced and complicated. And I think for a lot of women, as they're, you know, getting older, they start to realize things aren't working quite as well.

• 4:13Lewis Howes?

  Like what, what stops working as well?

• 4:16Cynthia Thurlow?

  Well, you know, as we're getting fluctuating amounts of like, our ovaries aren't making as much progesterone, so our adrenal glands are, are kind of stepping in to help buffer that. We go through something called adrenal pause, of all things, where we're just not as stress resilient. It doesn't mean we can't manage stress, we just have to be much more diligent about that. We're having, you know, imbalances between those two key sex hormones, progesterone and estrogen, and so. We all suddenly become weight loss resistant. We are struggling with breast pain. We're having heavier cycles.

• 4:44Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 4:45Cynthia Thurlow?

  And this is all things that we don't talk enough about with our patients. And certainly not amongst other women. So a lot of women get into that age and all of a sudden they're like, what in the world is going on? Everything I used to do no longer works. And that's when I think fasting can really, if practiced properly, can really be a fantastic strategy.

• 5:03Lewis Howes?

  So what are some of the challenges that you've had, I guess, or the changes you've had? Where fasting has supported, you know, not hurting you as much or supporting you?

• 5:15Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah. Well, I think, you know, we've taught our patients for so many years. Eat snacks, eat mini meals, stoke your metabolism. I'm here to tell people that our bodies intrinsically are designed to go longer periods without eating. And so when we're looking at women north of 35 or menopausal ages, all of a sudden, you know, the calories in calories out model doesn't work. And the eating with all that frequency and eating heart healthy grains and following my plate is really putting us at a disadvantage. So I think on a lot of levels, eating less frequently combined with having more protein, eating less processed carbs, maybe drinking less alcohol. All of a sudden, women are sleeping better. They're less inflamed, they're losing weight.

• 5:57Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so I think for a lot of women, it's figuring out what's the right recipe, if you will, to allow them to continue to, you know, age in a way that is aligned with their, the way they want to live their lives.

• 6:10Lewis Howes?

  So your mom, you got two teenage boys. What is the fasting practice that you do in your life at this season of life?

• 6:17Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah, I would say for me, I fast consistently, but it's, I'm not doing a lot of long fasts. I did that before and I always say-

• 6:25Lewis Howes?

  Like multiple day fasts?

• 6:26Cynthia Thurlow?

  I used to do that. And then I had a hospitalization and then I said, I will never fast like that ever again.

• 6:32Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 6:32Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah, that was, that whole process of going through that. I said, I've checked the box, I've done some very long fasts.

• 6:39Lewis Howes?

  What was the longest?

• 6:41Cynthia Thurlow?

  Uh, willingly, that I wanted to fast. Probably five days. And then, you know, when I had a 13 day hospitalization and didn't eat, I just said, I've, I've done that. I don't need to do that again. So my typical.

• 6:53Lewis Howes?

  Did the hospitalization start because of the fast?

• 6:56Cynthia Thurlow?

  No, I had a ruptured appendix.

• 6:57Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow.

• 6:58Cynthia Thurlow?

  And the ruptured appendix led to, you know, one complication after another.

• 7:02Lewis Howes?

  And you didn't eat for 13 days?

• 7:03Cynthia Thurlow?

  No.

• 7:05Lewis Howes?

  So you're the fasting person, but you did it not wanting to do it?

• 7:08Cynthia Thurlow?

  No, no. No, and it's, you know, I had a series of complications, but I, I was so sick, I lost 15 pounds in 13 days. And so I came out of the hospital looking like a skeleton.

• 7:19Lewis Howes?

  Bones.

• 7:20Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah.

• 7:21Lewis Howes?

  So, when was this?

• 7:23Cynthia Thurlow?

  2019.

• 7:24Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow. Okay. Was this before the TED Talk?

• 7:26Cynthia Thurlow?

  This is what preceded that talk.

• 7:28Lewis Howes?

  Okay, so what did you learn from this hospitalization?

• 7:32Cynthia Thurlow?

  Oh, gosh. Well, there's nothing more humbling than being a healthcare provider and then becoming a patient.

• 7:37Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 7:38Cynthia Thurlow?

  Uh, and I, I recognized the first week, I knew how sick I was. And I had a fantastic team of doctors and a fantastic team of nurses. But there's something to be said for even the most positive person suddenly becoming despondent and depressed. And I felt five days in, I was so depressed. Because my surgeon kept saying, we don't know why you're not getting better. We don't know why you're not getting better. And I knew that they didn't figure out why I wasn't getting better, that there was not going to be a positive outcome.

• 8:08Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 8:09Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so I always say that whether it was a spirit, the universe, something came to me and said, you have a choice. What's your choice? And my choice was I wanted to live. I wanted to get home to my kids. And I wanted to live. And so from that point forward, I said, I promise that if I get out of this hospital, get out of this bed, I'm going to, there are specific things I'm going to focus on. My family, I want to do this talk. I missed every milestone for this TED Talk because I was in the hospital and I said, I'm so committed to doing this talk. I want to show my kids I'm okay. I want them to know I'm okay. And that was the intention I set. Was that if I get out of this hospital, I'm gonna do this talk to prove to my kids that I'm okay.

• 8:51Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Did you have this talk planned before the hospital?

• 8:54Cynthia Thurlow?

  Not a hundred percent.

• 8:55Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 8:56Cynthia Thurlow?

  I just knew the topic. And that was, that was what we had agreed upon for this particular venue.

• 9:00Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 9:01Cynthia Thurlow?

  And for me, the big message was through adversity comes opportunity. And so I, you know, 27 days after I left the hospital, I did that talk.

• 9:11Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 9:11Cynthia Thurlow?

  27 days. And I did it with a ruptured appendix.

• 9:14Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 9:15Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah. I was too sick to take to surgery. I had so many complications. They just said, if we can stabilize you enough, we'll send you home, we'll do surgery later.

• 9:23Lewis Howes?

  Did you eventually do surgery?

• 9:25Cynthia Thurlow?

  I did. 10 days after that.

• 9:26Lewis Howes?

  Holy cow.

• 9:27Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah. And so I went to, I didn't feel bad. Once I got out of the hospital and my mom was, you know, feeding, making sure I was eating anything, just to stay, you know, stay alive.

• 9:37Lewis Howes?

  Nourished, yeah.

• 9:38Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah.

• 9:38Lewis Howes?

  So what was the complication in the first place? Like, what happened? Did they know?

• 9:41Cynthia Thurlow?

  Well, I had, so it was the ruptured appendix, but by the time I went to the hospital, and it wasn't as if I ignored symptoms. I thought I had food poisoning. Until I didn't. And then when I went to the hospital, they found out my entire length of my colon was inflamed.

• 9:54Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 9:55Cynthia Thurlow?

  And they said, if we take you to surgery tonight, we're gonna take your colon. I said, uh, time out, I need my colon. And they're like, no, no, you don't need your colon. I said, no, I need my colon. And so I said, please give me the time to save my colon. Because if you don't have a colon, you wear a colostomy bag.

• 10:09Lewis Howes?

  Oh no.

• 10:09Cynthia Thurlow?

  And that was not how I wanted to live.

• 10:11Lewis Howes?

  You didn't want to live.

• 10:12Cynthia Thurlow?

  No. And so then it turned into, on day two, I developed a small bowel obstruction. I looked six months pregnant.

• 10:18Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 10:19Cynthia Thurlow?

  Uh huh. And then, um, by day five or six, they figured out I had, uh, they call them retroperitoneal abscesses, which means in your peritoneum, which is your sterile cavity of your abdomen, I had developed abscesses, so infections. So they had to call in an interventional radiologist in the middle of the night to put drains in. And, and then I developed a fistula. So it was kind of like this domino effect. And my surgeon kept saying, this would only happen to another healthcare provider. And there's nothing worse than knowing. Something's wrong with you and being in a position where you just fully have to surrender. Maybe that's the bigger message is that I had to just surrender. I could not outthink anything that was going on.

• 11:00Cynthia Thurlow?

  And I remember my cousin, who's a physician, came to stay with me because I told my husband to keep the kids out of the hospital because they were so stressed. And she kept telling me, she was like, you can't buck what they're trying to recommend. You know, they gave me liquid nutrition in a bag. And I kept saying, do you have any organic TPN, which is this total parental nutrition? And my cousin's like, you need to stop it.

• 11:23Lewis Howes?

  Just take whatever.

• 11:25Cynthia Thurlow?

  Exactly. That was the big, the big takeaway is just surrender to the process.

• 11:30Lewis Howes?

  Now, how long were you fasting or trying intermittent or longer fast before this moment?

• 11:35Cynthia Thurlow?

  Oh, probably five days was probably my max.

• 11:37Lewis Howes?

  I mean, for how many years before did you start?

• 11:40Cynthia Thurlow?

  At least three or four prior to that. So I was definitely, you know, metabolically healthy and I credit the fact that I had a very different outcome than other people would have had with the fact that I was so healthy. I had, I had enough reserve, not a lot, as evidenced by the fact I lost so much weight. But my body was breaking my muscle down for food. That's essentially what happened.

• 12:03Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy.

• 12:03Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah, it's, it's hard to process.

• 12:05Lewis Howes?

  So what do you think led to that? What was like the root cause of that happening, do you think?

• 12:10Cynthia Thurlow?

  You know, I've had, I've had conversations with a good friend, a mutual friend, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. And about six months before I got sick, I had been in Morocco. My husband and I gone to Morocco, we were celebrating an anniversary, went to Morocco and Spain. And in Morocco, I got the worst food poisoning of my life. Like to the point where I was like, this is bad. I don't want to be in Morocco and be sick. And so we suspect that probably started a cascade of events because I picked up a parasite. And our working kind of hypothesis is that was probably the starting point. That that just kind of got things rolling. But I feel so fortunate that I was having the rupture to appendix in the United States.

• 12:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 12:54Cynthia Thurlow?

  Where I could get a certain degree of care.

• 12:57Lewis Howes?

  So you don't think the fasting, the extreme fasting to five days was any effect or had any effect on this?

• 13:03Cynthia Thurlow?

  And I didn't do really long fasts with any frequency. I mean, there's certainly a law of diminishing returns. If you're lean.

• 13:09Lewis Howes?

  Right, you're not gonna lose more weight, you're just gonna lose the muscle.

• 13:11Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right, and so I I'm very proactive about not losing muscle. So for me, it was definitely not that I had been doing too much fasting. Um, I I just suspect it was the timing. I'd literally just gotten back from a trip with my husband. I accompanied him to Hawaii. He had a business trip. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna practice, I'm gonna start writing my TED Talk while I was there. And so I I just think it was, I'm grateful I didn't have a ruptured appendix on the plane. You know, the things I think about coming all the way from Hawaii all the way back to the East Coast, which is a pretty long leg.

• 13:42Lewis Howes?

  It's long.

• 13:43Cynthia Thurlow?

  You know, for me, I I just say I'm grateful that it happened in a hospital where I knew the doctors. I knew a lot of the nurses. I know I got exemplary care. There's no question.

• 13:52Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 13:53Cynthia Thurlow?

  But.

• 13:53Lewis Howes?

  So what have we learned then about the metabolism? Because you mentioned about how people have been thinking, or the the latest trends in the last 10, 15 years is like have small meals every two, three hours. Have, you know, little snacks, uh, six meals a day, whatever it is. Because that speeds up the metabolism, I think is what has been said. What is the research or the science saying about, you know, that not being the case? And actually having less meals, um, in your mind?

• 14:21Cynthia Thurlow?

  Well, I mean, I really am very aligned with this whole carb insulin model for metabolic health. And so when we're telling our patients and we're telling the general public, eat to stoke your metabolism. Breakfast is the most important meal of the day. I'm here to tell people that eating so frequently and eating a lot of carbohydrates is keeping your insulin levels higher than they should be, which is going to make it virtually impossible to lose weight. Because you need your insulin levels to be low to actually free up fatty acid stored fat to be able to use as a fuel substrate. And so I I think we have really done a tremendous disservice to the public. I I think a lot of, you know, what we see coming out from the federal government, whether it's MyPlate.

• 15:03Cynthia Thurlow?

  Or a lot of the plant-based narrative and I don't want to, I don't want to be inflammatory because I'm respectful of people's choices, but I think a lot of the information that we've been sharing with patients has been disproven on a lot of different levels that we need to eat less frequently, more protein, right types of fats, right types of carbohydrates. I'm not anti-carb, but for the bulk of the population, when we look at studies, I mean, seven to eight percent of the population is metabolically healthy coming out of this pandemic, we've got to change what we're doing, you know, we have to course correct. And so, you know, looking, leaning into the research that's looking at, you know, these low carb ketogenic diets, more protein, helping with satiety. Think about it, when we're eating snacks and mini meals, were you ever satiated? No. You know, your blood

• 15:45Cynthia Thurlow?

  sugar goes up, it comes back down and it's, you know, this roller coaster of constant hunger, lack of satiety, so you're eating more foods. I mean, I think about the fact that I have teenage boys and, you know, they're running mantra in our houses, where's the protein? And they're like, Mom. And they'll have, you know, they'll sit down and I'm like, I don't mind if you have the pasta, you know, you're, you're a growing athlete.

• 16:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you're running around for three hours a day, you can have a bowl of pasta.

• 16:10Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right. And you can have rice, but where's your protein?

• 16:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:12Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so that's always the conversation. So if you really look at a lot of the metabolic health research that's being done, you know, people like Ben Bickman, who's an insulin researcher and is really talking about the role of insulin, that at the basis of all chronic disease right now is insulin resistance.

• 16:27Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 16:28Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so, high blood pressure, obviously diabetes, polycystic ovarian syndrome, lot of these neurocognitive disorders that we're starting to see, like early onset dementia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, all at the root cause at the base are a lot of these insulin disorders. And so.

• 16:44Lewis Howes?

  And you get, you know, your, I guess your insulin spikes just when you're eating. So if you're eating less, then your, your insulin will go down, is that right?

• 16:52Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right. And so when you, so in response, so we know that when we're looking at macronutrients, so protein, fat and carbohydrates, we're going to have a more exaggerated response with carbohydrates than protein than fats. And so explaining to people that we're not, I'm not anti-carb at all. It's just understanding, you want to always be making sure that when you're having a meal, you want to blunt that response. So we don't want these wildly exaggerated blood sugar responses. We want to have a blood sugar response, of course, but we want, we don't have to scrape so much insulin to bring that blood sugar back down.

• 17:20Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 17:21Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so that's unfortunately what happens is people have chronically high insulin, they're weight loss resistant, and it's because their body can't go in and free up those fatty acids because they're just constantly stoking this fire.

• 17:32Lewis Howes?

  And if we never give our digestive system rest, what happens? If it's like kind of, okay, every three, two, three, four hours, there's something we're ingesting.

• 17:41Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah.

• 17:42Lewis Howes?

  And it's always working, what is happening to our gut, our brain, and our body?

• 17:47Cynthia Thurlow?

  No, that's a great point. Well, there's lots of things physiologically that go on that are unable to be optimized when we're chronically eating. One example is there's something called the migrating motor complex. It's kind of like the janitor in the gut. It's kind of pushing things along, pushing food along. And we need about four to five hours for that to kind of, that sweet sweeper to come through. And it's getting rid of debris and things that don't belong in the gut. And so if you're eating all the time, it's like your gut just becomes really less optimized. It doesn't get into a position where you're actually be able to take the time to extract all the nutrients. It's almost like you're, it's like, the best example I can give you is my dad likes to fill his tank when he gets to, you know, three quarters of a tank. And it's like you're constantly topping off the tank.

• 18:29Cynthia Thurlow?

  You're never allowing your body to actually utilize the fuel that you've eaten. You're just storing it because your body's never in this position where it's able to

• 18:38Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 18:39Cynthia Thurlow?

  fully enjoy this. So what happens with your brain? You've got high insulin. If you've got high blood sugar, you're going to have brain fog. You might get tired. And think about all the people that want to take a nap after a meal. That's not normal. And that's because your body's, you know, trying to figure out how to manage this blood sugar response. People will deal with constipation. One of the first things people will say when they're fasting is, oh my gosh, I didn't realize I was meant to have a bowel movement once a day. And it's because they're constipated, their body's just literally backed up with a backlog of nutrients. Yeah, so it's definitely, there's a lot of things from subtle changes, energy, cognition can be impacted adversely. And just, you know, the other piece of it that I always explain to people is people think it's normal to be bloated. People think it's normal to be constipated.

• 19:22Cynthia Thurlow?

  And a lot of it's you're just not allowing your body to be fully optimized. You're not allowing your body to get to a position where it's able to utilize what you fed it. You're just allowing, you're just continuing to top off that tank.

• 19:34Lewis Howes?

  So how many meals a day should we have? Because Dr. David Sinclair says that he's now been doing kind of a one meal a day approach. And just having a longer fast almost every day. And he's seen benefits from that experiment for himself. Should we be doing two meals a day? How much time in between our meals? Where you don't have the top off feeling? What's your beliefs on that?

• 19:58Cynthia Thurlow?

  Well, I obviously respect Dr. Sinclair's work enormously. But the longevity researchers, they're not meeting their protein needs. So to me, at a bare minimum, if we're looking at the changes that happen in skeletal muscle with aging and that impacts our insulin sensitivity, I always say at least two meals a day. Really depends. I have some very athletic men that can manage to fit in. Right, they need those three meals to get at least their boluses of protein in to help ward off sarcopenia, which is this muscle loss with aging. So the right answer is bio-individuality rules. I think most women can get by with two meals. I think very active men probably need three. I'm not a fan of OMAD as a sustained strategy.

• 20:40Lewis Howes?

  What's OMAD?

• 20:40Cynthia Thurlow?

  OMAD is one meal a day.

• 20:42Lewis Howes?

  Only one meal a day, yeah.

• 20:42Cynthia Thurlow?

  Because you just can't hit your protein macros. There's no way.

• 20:45Lewis Howes?

  Especially if you're, you know, I'm 6'4", 240 pounds. So I probably need 200 grams of protein a day.

• 20:50Cynthia Thurlow?

  Correct.

• 20:51Lewis Howes?

  Right? Especially if I'm lifting and running and, you know, physical.

• 20:54Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah. And I think that's, that's where I always, it's interesting during, you know, the height of like the book launch press that I was doing, I got that question a lot. And I would say, I am not aligned with some of the longevity researchers in the respect that I am far more concerned about maintaining skeletal muscle than I am worried about restricting calories to a point where you're chronically going to be in a state of not enough.

• 21:21Lewis Howes?

  Right. Because if you're 60, 70, 80 and you fall and you can't push yourself up, then that's another issue.

• 21:26Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah. I mean, that loss of strength.

• 21:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So it's learning how to stay flexible and strong as we age, not just, you know, having minimal calories.

• 21:35Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right. And I think that's an important distinction because I inherited, I now co-host another podcast, and one of the things that I differentiated with the prior podcast co-host was I'm not a big fan of OMAD, and let me tell you why. And I said, I'm not saying if you're on vacation, you overate the next day, you're like, I need to get back on track.

• 21:53Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 21:54Cynthia Thurlow?

  I'm gonna just have one meal. But as a sustained strategy, I don't think most men and women are going to be able to get their macros. And that's a greater concern because I see what starts happening to people when they're less metabolically flexible, when all of a sudden they start becoming more insulin resistant. And the bulk of the population, it's like, we have to have those frank conversations to say, as a clinician, we have to do better. And the way we do better is having those frank discussions. You must maintain insulin sensitivity.

• 22:21Lewis Howes?

  How much protein should women be having on a daily basis?

• 22:24Cynthia Thurlow?

  I would say to a minimum 100 grams.

• 22:26Lewis Howes?

  No matter how, your size, your age?

• 22:28Cynthia Thurlow?

  It's a good benchmark, starting point.

• 22:31Lewis Howes?

  Minimum, yeah.

• 22:31Cynthia Thurlow?

  Because I find most women are probably eating 40 or 50. And then they're wondering why I can't get gains in the gym. I lost all my muscle strength, what's going on? And I'm like, well, your sex hormones are fluctuating. That's number one. That's contributing, but then you're making it worse because the best example, like, I love analogies, is like, young people's muscle looks like a filet. Older people's muscle looks like a ribeye. So that fat and that marbling is what starts to change in the muscles themselves. And so although a ribeye is delicious, we don't want to be a full ribeye because that's gonna make us much less metabolically flexible.

• 23:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:10Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so I think that analogy makes people go, oh, yeah, I want to eat a ribeye, I don't want to be a ribeye.

• 23:14Lewis Howes?

  Interesting, so 100 grams of protein a day for women on average is a good benchmark. For men, I guess 150 to 200, depending on your size and your...

• 23:23Cynthia Thurlow?

  I think that's reasonable. And I think also, like, as an example, like, you know, you are still at a stage where you're still, you've got, you know, testosterone's where it should be. I think most younger men absolutely want to be shooting for more protein. You know, I would say, you know, men 50 and above might... Might need a little bit less, but it probably depends on what they're doing.

• 23:45Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 23:46Cynthia Thurlow?

  In terms of are you lifting, are you hitting that muscle protein synthesis, which is certainly really important.

• 23:51Lewis Howes?

  What if we're eating the protein, but we're not working out at all? Is that?

• 23:55Cynthia Thurlow?

  That's a problem.

• 23:56Lewis Howes?

  Is that what happens to the body then?

• 23:58Cynthia Thurlow?

  Um, well, I mean, if you're, if, well, you're still, so muscle loss with aging is, isn't it, is a question of if, but when, you know, it's going to happen. So sarcopenia is a real thing. There's also, you know, loss of muscle strength and it goes up by the decades. So if you're looking at the research at a 40 year old versus a 50 year old, it starts to accelerate.

• 24:16Lewis Howes?

  Unless you're taking like steroids or HGH or some.

• 24:20Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right.

• 24:20Lewis Howes?

  Injection to.

• 24:21Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right. And a lot of people, I mean, I'll be honest, both men and women can take, we know that there is, you know, there's value in women having progesterone and estrogen and testosterone if appropriate, as they are going through menopause. And for men in andropause, the number one reason why men have low testosterone in the United States is, you know, insulin resistant and estrogen mimicking chemicals that they're exposed to. So there's so many different factors that contribute, but I always say, you know, strength training should be a bare minimum for everyone. Like a bare minimum. I think that's another thing, like people think they can be the cardio bunny forever and they just need to walk and all those things, you know, HIIT has its place and walking and flexibility training certainly has its place, but let's be real.

• 25:04Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 25:05Cynthia Thurlow?

  You know, strength training is critically important.

• 25:07Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 25:08Cynthia Thurlow?

  And, you know, we have peak bone and muscle mass in our twenties and thirties and how many people don't realize that till they're 50?

• 25:13Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:14Cynthia Thurlow?

  And then they're trying to play catch up.

• 25:15Lewis Howes?

  That's very hard to do.

• 25:16Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yes.

• 25:16Lewis Howes?

  And very painful.

• 25:17Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yes. And, and really to, to, to work out at that effort, most people don't understand what that effort requires.

• 25:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it requires a lot more protein too.

• 25:28Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah.

• 25:28Lewis Howes?

  A lot more sleep, a lot more recovery, all those things.

• 25:31Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah, it's all critically important, but it, but I think we don't, you know, when we're looking at optimization, that's also really important. And I talk a lot about that in the book, like protein, protein, protein, you're probably not eating enough. You should probably be doing some strength training as well.

• 25:45Lewis Howes?

  Just having granola and yogurt, you know, for your meals all day is not gonna do it.

• 25:51Cynthia Thurlow?

  No, and it's funny, last night, my cousin took me to a restaurant not realizing it was a plant-based restaurant. And so I was like, oh, well, I can have a vegetable dinner, that's, that's fine. But then I realized that all the, the protein that was at this particular restaurant was all processed, plant-based protein, and, and so we just politely kind of got up and then we went out and had steaks. And so I was like, okay, this is gonna be a much better last meal of the day.

• 26:14Lewis Howes?

  Right, so I mean, there's, again, there's a lot of different vegan, vegetarian, plant-based individuals that, you know, really believe that you can get enough protein from plants, right? And maybe you can, I feel like when I've tried to do that, I don't feel like I'm getting as much, or I have to have more like powders or something like that for, for what I need.

• 26:36Lewis Howes?

  What is the difference between plant protein or processed plant proteins, you know, foods versus meats and eggs and, and things like that?

• 26:48Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah, I mean, I, I'm always very sensitive that it's meeting people where they are.

• 26:52Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 26:53Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so I, I think a plant-based protein that's a whole, for, a whole sourced protein, like whether it's hemp hearts, or legumes, or beans, etc., is very different than the Impossible Burger.

• 27:05Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 27:05Cynthia Thurlow?

  Or some of these processed things that have seed oils and a lot of, we don't know enough about these pea-based proteins yet to feel, like, I don't feel comfortable saying this is, I think, an equivalent. Animal-based protein is always, the amino acid profile is always gonna be superior to plant-based protein. My concerns about plant-based protein is never that it's, you know, the, the traditional, like, real food, plant-based protein. Let me just be clear about that, that's very different than the processed varieties. But my concern is always if you are already insulin resistant. And you are trying to consume enough plant-based protein, it's going to be at the detriment to your carbohydrate intake. Like, I think it's six cups of quinoa is equivalent to like an eight-ounce steak, or something along those lines.

• 27:48Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so, the amount of carbohydrate you'd have to take in, and calories for that matter, would be substantial. And so, I think it's a very sticky wicket. So, I oftentimes will say, can I get you to eat some eggs, maybe some fish? Try to find, you know, ways to bridge the gap.

• 28:03Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 28:04Cynthia Thurlow?

  And be respectful of where people are in time and space.

• 28:07Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 28:07Cynthia Thurlow?

  Because for me, it's like, listen, I just want people to be healthy.

• 28:10Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 28:10Cynthia Thurlow?

  And I want to just meet them where they are and help educate them so that they can make good decisions.

• 28:15Lewis Howes?

  And what about bowel movements? You mentioned that earlier. How many bowel movements should we have a day? What is healthy?

• 28:20Cynthia Thurlow?

  Well, when I went to school, they used to say, one after every meal. Now, that's not realistic, right? I mean, who has time to put aside with every single meal? I would say to bare minimum, one, at least one bowel movement a day. But I think we've gotten so convinced that, you know, this is normal to be constipated. And I always say, it's not normal to be constipated. I used to have patients that were on 50 medications. And, you know, one of the side effects of probably 10 of them was constipation. And we would give them three other drugs to get them to go to the bathroom.

• 28:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 28:48Cynthia Thurlow?

  And that was normal. And how many women come to me and they go to the bathroom twice a week? And I'm like, that's not normal because, you know, stool is the byproduct of what our body's trying to get rid of.

• 28:59Lewis Howes?

  It's waste.

• 29:00Cynthia Thurlow?

  It's correct. And we're trying to... Instead, you're just recirculating estrogens and all sorts of other things that don't belong in the body. So, the first question is, are you drinking enough water? Are you... Do you exercise?

• 29:11Lewis Howes?

  Drinking a lot of water right now.

• 29:12Cynthia Thurlow?

  Exactly. You know, are you eating some vegetables? You know, it doesn't necessarily have to be cooked vegetables, right? It's like, add in two green salads a day. I have this whole hierarchy of things, you know, a tablespoon of fresh ground chia seeds and flax seeds. Throw it in a smoothie, throw it on your salad.

• 29:27Lewis Howes?

  It'll help you digest it, yeah.

• 29:28Cynthia Thurlow?

  And it's like, you know, other than that, I think about a lot of people don't have a gallbladder or they've got sludgy bile. And so, they're not able to break down and emulsify fats properly. And so, when they start eating a more nutrient-dense diet, all of a sudden, everything slows down even more. And I'm like, okay, let's work on bile-supportive foods. And so, we talk about shaved beets and carrots and artichoke hearts and even aloe vera juice. I mean, all these things can be helpful. But I always say, listen, it is not normal to be constipated.

• 29:55Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 29:56Cynthia Thurlow?

  And if it's a new thing, you need to talk to your healthcare professional. If it's a chronic thing, you don't have to live that way.

• 30:02Lewis Howes?

  Got it. So you're supposed to be doing it once a day.

• 30:04Cynthia Thurlow?

  At least.

• 30:04Lewis Howes?

  A two day, twice a day is okay.

• 30:06Cynthia Thurlow?

  Twice a day is okay.

• 30:07Lewis Howes?

  Three is okay?

• 30:08Cynthia Thurlow?

  Three is okay. And I do have, I do have some patients that that is their norm and...

• 30:12Lewis Howes?

  How long is it supposed to take when the food goes into your system? Like, what is the process of how long it should take until that food is gone?

• 30:20Cynthia Thurlow?

  Usually like 18 to 24 hours.

• 30:22Lewis Howes?

  Of that food?

• 30:23Cynthia Thurlow?

  Ideally.

• 30:24Lewis Howes?

  Because the previous meal is coming out after you eat, obviously.

• 30:26Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so there's actually, there's actually bowel motility activation when you eat, that it's designed to move things forward. So sometimes when people have their morning coffee, or they have their first meal, you know, they feel like they need to go have a bowel movement, and that is a byproduct physiologically. Your body's like, okay, food's coming in, the rest needs to go out.

• 30:45Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 30:45Cynthia Thurlow?

  Exactly.

• 30:46Lewis Howes?

  So 18 to 20 hours, is that what you said?

• 30:48Cynthia Thurlow?

  18 to 24 hours is about where, you know, and I actually do, in one of my programs, I actually do a corn test. And so they have two tablespoons of corn.

• 30:57Lewis Howes?

  See when it comes out.

• 30:58Cynthia Thurlow?

  Correct. And so they're, you know, they're being their own detective, but anyone that's listening can do that as well. Like, a really simple way to see, is it things moving too fast? Things moving too slowly? And it's very insightful. I think people just assume whatever is their norm is the norm. And sometimes it's not.

• 31:14Lewis Howes?

  So 18 to 24 hours is a healthy bowel movement, right? That's interesting. So should we have like a couple pieces of corn in every meal to see like?

• 31:22Cynthia Thurlow?

  Well, I think you just have to pay attention. Like, I think, I forget, like nurses, we talk about poop and bodily functions all the time. So to us, there's no stigma. But for a lot of people, they're just uncomfortable talking about what goes on with their bodies. So I always say, like, don't be afraid to kind of play a little bit of detective.

• 31:39Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 31:39Cynthia Thurlow?

  And figure out like, what's normal for you? And is that healthy?

• 31:43Lewis Howes?

  Right. What is the process then for, you know, for people, for women specifically, looking to have a reset with a metabolism, to lose some, some weight? And just feel overall healthier with their hormones and their body?

• 32:00Lewis Howes?

  What is part of this 45 day process? Is it multiple days of fasting throughout? Is it certain foods? Is it? What is the process like?

• 32:09Cynthia Thurlow?

  Well, it is a 45 day program and there's no really long fasts in the book. I mean, they're no longer than a day and a half. But because it's meeting people where they are. So some people have been fasting, they're ready for the challenges. Some people are like, I'm a standard American diet person. I've been a couch potato for 30 years. I need help. So we can kind of meet all their needs. But I think it really speaks to the fact that we have to talk about lifestyle. We have to talk about, are you getting good sleep? Are you managing your stress? And that's not five minutes of meditation once a week. And how many of us think that, you know, check the box? That's what's done it. And it's really talking to people about anti-inflammatory nutrition. Unfortunately, most of the foods that proliferate in the processed food industry are highly inflammatory. And I'm talking about like gluten and dairy.

• 32:53Cynthia Thurlow?

  I always get, you know, the side eye from people like, no, not dairy. Sometimes in certain instances, sometimes grains, processed sugars, alcohol. Alcohol is a big one, you know, unfortunately.

• 33:03Lewis Howes?

  Alcohol is really bad.

• 33:04Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah.

• 33:04Lewis Howes?

  If you're, especially if you're having it consistently. I don't know. I think Andrew Huberman just did a whole, you know, breakdown, masterclass on alcohol for the brain and the body. And he was essentially like, there is no benefit.

• 33:19Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah.

• 33:19Lewis Howes?

  You know, there's only bad things that can come from that. Not even like, oh, what about a little bit of wine every now and then? And there was Veratrol that's in the wine. But he's like, it doesn't outweigh the alcohol itself, having a little bit in that Veratrol, whatever. So I think, I've never been drunk in my life or high. And I'll have like, maybe like a base on ice a couple of times a year. It's like sip on, but I'm like, yeah, I just feel like there is no added value.

• 33:48Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah.

• 33:48Lewis Howes?

  You know, try to find something fast during that time, right? You'll get a lot more value for your body with that.

• 33:54Cynthia Thurlow?

  Well, and it's interesting because I feel like more and more people in the health and wellness space are either no longer drinking and never had problems with it, but just choose not to drink. And when I go to these events, like I was in an event in New York this past weekend, and most if not all of us don't drink. And so, you know, I think it's a very personal decision. I know for women north of forty, all of a sudden, you know, they get hot flashes, they don't, I mean, who makes good choices when you've had too much to drink? You're not going to make good choices personally or with nutrition because you're going to crave, you know, the salty, sweet junk. And your body processes alcohol as a toxin. So, you know, it's one of those things that I'm glad that more and more experts, and obviously, Dr. Huberman is absolutely brilliant. And I'm so glad that he's using his platform to help educate people.

• 34:39Cynthia Thurlow?

  Because I think we've been convinced otherwise for a long period of time.

• 34:42Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 34:43Cynthia Thurlow?

  And certainly for me, you know, being, you know, a former ER nurse in inner-city Baltimore, and, you know, working with thousands and thousands of patients, like having those hard discussions about, does alcohol serve you? You know, and I think that's an important, a really important point.

• 34:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I get it, you know, there's people that they like their alcohol, they like their wine, they, you know, all these things, I get it. Their tequila, their shots, they like going to the bar and having fun. And I just, I mean, it's kind of like with me, the sugar, like I love sugar, but I know it's not good for me. It doesn't do good things to my body. So, I try to have days where I don't have any, and then I have some, and I'm like, okay, I'm just going to enjoy this, but I know this is not benefiting me. This is not giving me any nutritional value. It's not helping my brain, my digestion, my heart, none of that.

• 35:30Lewis Howes?

  It might bring me some joy in the moment, right? Just like alcohol might for people, but you got to understand the risks. And obviously, like, just being in moderation is, you know, the best thing. But I think, you know, what do you think is worse, sugar or alcohol?

• 35:44Cynthia Thurlow?

  I think it, I think it depends on the susceptibility of the individual. I, I, I don't drink alcohol anymore, but I was always someone that didn't drink a whole lot. So, that wasn't a problem. But I think processed sugars, because we start people so young. I mean, think about what we do at children's birthday parties and every sporting event that, you know, you're constantly doling out sugar. We get people addicted really early on. I, I would imagine that processed sugars are in, are really in almost everything. And so, I think that is a greater issue. But I would be remiss if I said... You know, I personally have been impacted by alcoholism with a family member.

• 36:25Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so for me, alcoholism holds a special spot in that I recognize a lot of people. And it's not just alcohol, it could be any, it could be food addiction, it could be so many other things. That it's, it's, people have uncomfortable feelings, that they aren't comfortable processing or acknowledging. And so that might be why they choose to, you know.

• 36:45Lewis Howes?

  Numb it a little bit, yeah.

• 36:46Cynthia Thurlow?

  Correct. And so, no judgment.

• 36:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 36:49Cynthia Thurlow?

  I'm completely sympathetic to all that. But I would say processed sugars, for sure.

• 36:52Lewis Howes?

  And what if, what if someone's never fasted before? What do they need to understand as a, as a potential effects that will happen with fasting? Whether it be 16 hours, 24 hours, or two days? What do people need to know before they do their first fast?

• 37:10Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah, I mean, I usually have kind of a graduated perspective, like, first you stop snacking. Like, it really is that simple. So if someone is, you know, really starting from a place where they've been eating a standard American diet, they're not physically active, I'm like, we need to teach you to stop snacking. Because I promise you're not going to get hungry in between, because we're going to teach you how to balance your macros. So you're going to have more protein with your meal, so that you can get from breakfast to lunch, and lunch and dinner. And you're going to eventually get to a position where you can go from dinner to breakfast. Now, that freaks everyone out.

• 37:41Lewis Howes?

  Without having chips at night or something?

• 37:42Cynthia Thurlow?

  Correct.

• 37:43Lewis Howes?

  It's so challenging when you're so used to it. You have dinner, and you just want to have a couple, you know, some chips or some, something, a cookie or whatever it is, before you go to bed.

• 37:53Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah, and you, and I think you have to replace that habit with something else.

• 37:57Lewis Howes?

  Like tea?

• 37:58Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right. Even if, I have a lot of people that have herbal tea at nighttime, they take a walk with their dogs. They call, you know, a friend, maybe they've got a friend who's fasting with them. So it starts with no snacking, restructuring those macros. And then really, the next step is going from dinner to breakfast.

• 38:16Lewis Howes?

  And that's And that's it.

• 38:18Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right, right. And I, but I think it's, it's, you have to kind of get yourself out of that headspace. Like, think very clearly about why are you choosing to fast? Is it because you want to get healthier? You know, I can't tell you how many people I meet who were like, I was told I had pre-diabetes. That was a powerful impetus to shake things up.

• 38:34Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 38:35Cynthia Thurlow?

  Or, you know, I've got young children at home, or I've got a loved one I have to take care of. And so, all of a sudden, you know, people's priorities shift. It's like, I have to take care of me because other people depend on me. So getting very clear about your intentions, because that's what you're going to need to reflect on. When you are considering what the options will be. So, for a lot of people, that evening snacking, and I think the last two and a half years in particular, people have just been stressed and they don't know how to deal with the stress. And so, stress eating has really become a huge issue. But I always remind people that we become less insulin sensitive as the day goes on. So, you're, you would be better off having an early breakfast than eating late at night. You know, that, that, that three hour window before bed is really important. And so, understanding

• 39:18Lewis Howes?

  To not eat at night, yeah.

• 39:20Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right. That, that insulin sensitivity is lowered at nighttime. And so, you know, that late night eating can really derail, even if you're doing all the right things. So, when someone's new to fasting, those are usually the first three things that we talk about. And then I say, listen, baby steps. We go from 12 hours to 12 and a half. If you need a break, we do that, then we go to 13. And so, really saying to people, like, you are eventually going to get to a point. But also explaining to them that if you are primarily using glucose as your primary, primary fuel source, you are, it's going to take you longer to become fat adapted to where your body is, you know, your insulin levels are low enough, they can go in and free up these fatty acids to fuel the body. And so, saying it could take four, six, eight weeks for that to happen. Depending on how metabolically flexible someone is.

• 40:05Cynthia Thurlow?

  I mean, some people are like a duck to water. It's two weeks, easy, no big deal. But more often than not, that's not the case. And just helping people understand that everyone's an individual. Some people, it's, you know, you take two steps forward and four back. It's all okay. It's part of the process. We want this to be sustainable.

• 40:21Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 40:22Cynthia Thurlow?

  And there's no benefit to white knuckling fasting. Like, some people white knuckle everything they do, and I'm like, that is not the way to live.

• 40:29Lewis Howes?

  No, it's not. It's not sustainable.

• 40:31Cynthia Thurlow?

  No.

• 40:32Lewis Howes?

  What's the lifestyle approach you have now after these last few years of testing it and trying it and having case studies of other women? How do you live your life moving forward personally?

• 40:46Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah.

• 40:46Lewis Howes?

  Is it fasting once a week? Is it every other day? What's your style?

• 40:49Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah, I would say I'm very intuitive. So depending on, you know, how hungry am I? Did I lift that day? What was my sleep like? Did my Oura ring bark at me and tell me my sleep score is in the toilet? Maybe that's not the day to push, you know, push the fasting envelope and push, you know, doing a heavy workout. So I tend to really listen to my body, but the consistent things are I don't eat after 6 o'clock at night ideally.

• 41:12Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 41:12Cynthia Thurlow?

  I do much better having an earlier feeding window. That works for me. It might not work for someone else. I really focus in on sleep. I eat a lot of protein. I always say I'm carnivore-ish. I like vegetables. I do eat carbs, but I carb cycle. And that's worked really well for me. I don't drink alcohol, and there's no judgment for those that do. I just know it was the only thing that gave me hot flashes and messed up my sleep. And my sleep, like, on the hierarchy of important sleep is so high up there that to me, I'm like, it's not worth it to have a martini every six months. It just isn't. So for me...

• 41:44Lewis Howes?

  What about sugar? What's your sugar intake like?

• 41:47Cynthia Thurlow?

  I, I'll be honest with you, my vice in life is dark chocolate. That's my only, but that's really like the one thing. And so I have a little bit of dark chocolate every day, but most of the time it's sweetened with stevia. And, you know, I have, I don't have it on today, but I usually wear a continuous glucose monitor kind of episodically. And so for me, it's like, that's my one vice. Like, I don't eat dairy. I don't eat grains. I don't eat gluten. I don't eat gluten, and I haven't for a long time.

• 42:12Lewis Howes?

  No bread, no cereals, no pastries?

• 42:15Cynthia Thurlow?

  No. And I don't really love that stuff, but my dark chocolate is my thing.

• 42:18Lewis Howes?

  I wish, I wish I had that disease where I didn't love...

• 42:22Cynthia Thurlow?

  But I think.

• 42:22Lewis Howes?

  Bread and pastries.

• 42:23Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah. No, but I think for me, it's like, like you mentioned, the, the cost benefit. I don't feel good when I eat those things. And I put an autoimmune disease into remission when I went gluten free.

• 42:33Lewis Howes?

  So you had an autoimmune disease?

• 42:35Cynthia Thurlow?

  I did. I had two.

• 42:36Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 42:36Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah. And so, once you get leaky gut, that kind of opens up that. It's like, once you have one, you're more prone to others. And for me, I was like, you know, I have to get, get myself together. And so for 11 years, I've been gluten free.

• 42:48Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So you eliminated certain foods where like, let's try this. And then it started to heal.

• 42:52Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah.

• 42:53Lewis Howes?

  And then you're like, well, why go back on now?

• 42:55Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right. And so for me, it's, you know, it's funny, like on vacation, well, people say, oh, we have gluten free bread. Might I have a piece of gluten free bread? But I also recognize it sets up that, I get that dopamine hit. I'm like, oh, I want more.

• 43:06Lewis Howes?

  Let's get more.

• 43:07Cynthia Thurlow?

  Exactly.

• 43:07Lewis Howes?

  It's so hard to have one.

• 43:09Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah. And that's why, and so my, my kind of mindset now is, it used to be moderation, not deprivation. But if you can't moderate, you eliminate. And so that's kind of how I think, like each one of us has to decide.

• 43:23Lewis Howes?

  I know. I don't have moderation in me. It's either all in or all out.

• 43:26Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right. And, but you recognize that about yourself. That's really what's so important.

• 43:30Lewis Howes?

  So challenging. I would love to get to the point where I could be like, okay, you know, once or twice a week, I can have a small like taste of ice cream. Not like a whole bucket of ice cream or something, you know, but it's like, once you have a little bit, it's so hard to trick your brain that you don't desire this so much.

• 43:46Cynthia Thurlow?

  Well, it's like that massive.

• 43:47Lewis Howes?

  You're putting a drug on your tongue and it tastes, it just rushes your whole body.

• 43:51Cynthia Thurlow?

  It's case of morphine. So it's actually, and it's interesting, even Peter Attia loves ice cream.

• 43:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 43:57Cynthia Thurlow?

  So my husband actually came home one day and said, I was listening to Peter Attia and even he has a weakness for ice cream. He said, so I don't feel quite so bad.

• 44:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:05Cynthia Thurlow?

  But ice cream in our house, not that I eat it, but like, that is their crack.

• 44:10Lewis Howes?

  Of course. Yeah. It's. Is there an ice cream that you could eat that's good for you? Like a protein ice cream that has no sugar or something?

• 44:16Cynthia Thurlow?

  You could probably make it. I mean.

• 44:17Lewis Howes?

  Probably want to taste.

• 44:18Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right.

• 44:19Lewis Howes?

  The same, but you know.

• 44:20Cynthia Thurlow?

  I just try to get them like Aldiens, which is this organic ice cream. And then I feel like, okay, and I'm like, listen, guys, when the half gallon is gone, it's gone. And so the teenagers will sneak downstairs and they'll eat it. I mean, they'll literally just eat it out of the carton and they'll do it to one another so that the one teenager will try to eat it. So the other one can't eat it. And my husband has none.

• 44:42Lewis Howes?

  The teenage days when I had eight Dr. Peppers a day in the summer and you know, just ice cream all night.

• 44:49Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah, and they're impervious. Like my seventeen year old's six feet tall.

• 44:52Lewis Howes?

  With a six pack and.

• 44:53Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah, always ridiculous. Plays football and he can eat anything he wants.

• 44:57Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy. So you're kind of like an intuitive person right now. You'll fast. Are you doing intermittent fasting every other day? Or how's that work?

• 45:05Cynthia Thurlow?

  I do. I would say I fast most days. So it could be fourteen, it could be eighteen hours. I can tell you when I came out from the East Coast, I had, you know, we had a ninety minute ground delay in Denver. And so when I got to the hotel, I remember saying to my husband, I was like, normally I wouldn't eat this much food this late in the day. But I'm like, I ordered a double burger, I ordered hard boiled eggs, and I just ate this massive meal. So for me, I think a lot of it is based on like, what's going on with my schedule? I fast every day, but sometimes I fast only twelve or thirteen hours. It really depends on what's going on.

• 45:37Lewis Howes?

  And then you focus on the protein intake. How do I get my protein in? And usually when you eat enough protein, you don't feel as hungry.

• 45:43Cynthia Thurlow?

  Correct.

• 45:44Lewis Howes?

  That's the thing. When we have carbs, we need more carbs.

• 45:47Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right. And so I always say, when you break your fast, protein and healthy fats or protein and carbs? It's never carbs naked. You know, use the term, you know, naked carbs, meaning you don't just sit down and eat a bowl of chips. You want to have a steak or a piece of chicken or a piece of fish or some egg.

• 46:02Lewis Howes?

  And you can have some carbs with that.

• 46:03Cynthia Thurlow?

  Correct.

• 46:04Lewis Howes?

  But eat the meat or the protein first.

• 46:06Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yep.

• 46:07Lewis Howes?

  So that's the first thing we should do once we break the fast. Whether it's fourteen hours or twenty-four hours, is have protein first.

• 46:14Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right. And I think the other thing is that some people, and I'm certainly guilty of this, if I do a longer fast, the longer the fast, the lighter the meal when you break your fast. So when I have, when I used to do longer fast, I would have bone broth. Because if I sat down and ate a meal, my stomach was like, no.

• 46:28Lewis Howes?

  Like a four or five day fast.

• 46:30Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right. I had to have very light meals. You know, might be a salad, soup. And there are people that are definitely more sensitive to when they break their fast. So I always say, if you get digestive distress or you don't feel good, lighter meal, break it with something light, and then eat a more substantial meal later.

• 46:46Lewis Howes?

  What's the worst foods to eat after you fast?

• 46:50Cynthia Thurlow?

  Oh, I would say, you know, just sitting down and eating a bunch of processed carbs. Like, don't sit down and have a bowl of ice cream.

• 46:57Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 46:58Cynthia Thurlow?

  You know, you're gonna spike your blood sugar.

• 46:59Lewis Howes?

  Alright.

• 47:00Cynthia Thurlow?

  Spike your insulin. I'd say the processed carbs. Um, you know, if you sat down and had some rice and had some chicken, I mean, that would be fine. But I would say, you know, most of the processed foods, because your appetite and satiety cues are not gonna be clicked in. You know, and I'm sure you probably have had experts that have talked about this, but the bliss point, you know, the processed food industry hijacks your brain chemistry so you don't realize, you know, you can eat two bags of Cheetos and you don't feel it.

• 47:25Lewis Howes?

  No, you don't. It's crazy.

• 47:26Cynthia Thurlow?

  Right. And it's designed to be that way.

• 47:29Lewis Howes?

  Oh, they taste so good.

• 47:30Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah. I haven't had a Cheeto in a very long time.

• 47:33Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 47:33Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah.

• 47:34Lewis Howes?

  You're very disciplined then with food, huh?

• 47:35Cynthia Thurlow?

  I am, but it's not.

• 47:36Lewis Howes?

  Especially after three years ago with the health scare, right?

• 47:39Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah. Well, I think for me, I am so, I'm so attuned to how my body feels, that I just know I can't run my business, run my personal life, do all these things, travel, if I'm treating my body poorly.

• 47:54Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 47:54Cynthia Thurlow?

  And for me, I have to honor my body by eating healthy, because I feel good. Like, I actually crave healthy foods. I don't, I'm not one of those people that's like, white knuckling, like, Louis, this is what I try to do, but I'm miserable all the time.

• 48:06Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 48:06Cynthia Thurlow?

  Um, you know, I, I think that's an important distinction. Like, I recognize that I'm probably not the average person. I'm happy doing what I do.

• 48:14Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 48:14Cynthia Thurlow?

  I think that's important.

• 48:15Lewis Howes?

  You enjoy it. I mean, you're very, you look very lean, right? You look very healthy, very lean. Do you attribute a lot of that to just fasting and being disciplined with food choices?

• 48:25Cynthia Thurlow?

  Um, I think it's, well, so I always, I think food is one of the most important choices we make. But I know at this stage of the game, the other things I do are equally important. So I would be the first person to say that it's a combination of eating an anti-inflammatory diet, lifting weights, getting enough sleep, being happy. Like, dude, we don't talk enough about this. Like, just being happy. Like, I just celebrated my 19th wedding anniversary.

• 48:50Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Congrats.

• 48:51Cynthia Thurlow?

  And, thank you. And so I tell people, that decision, for me... Has been so instrumental in being the person that I am today. And so I think we oftentimes don't talk enough about being personally fulfilled, being emotionally fulfilled, you know, being with the person that makes you feel safe and makes you feel appreciated and valued. And so, you know, if you don't have that person right now, that person is out there. I'm here to say, I mean, I got married in my 30s and I remember thinking, you know, it wasn't gonna happen because I was, how many times had I been made of honor in weddings? And I was like, it's not gonna happen. And then I met him and I was like, oh, I understand why I had to wait.

• 49:28Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 49:29Cynthia Thurlow?

  But I think it's all of those things. And then on top of it, like not being afraid of hormones, if you're in a position where, you know, you're, you know, I was certainly in a position where I have benefited from taking hormone replacement therapy. I have benefited from, you know, I always say progesterone is like the most magic bullet to help me sleep. I'm like, if I didn't have my progesterone, that would be terrible.

• 49:48Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 49:49Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so I think it's a lot of different factors, but people shouldn't be afraid to say like, I'm not gonna stay at the party till midnight because I'm not gonna function as well tomorrow morning if I don't get my sleep.

• 49:58Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 49:58Cynthia Thurlow?

  Or, you know, finding what foods work for you or don't work for you.

• 50:02Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 50:03Cynthia Thurlow?

  And eating less often could be 12 hours of digestive rest. There's no shame in that.

• 50:06Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. Now, the whole viral TED Talk thing, you know, about fasting, you weren't really a fasting person before that. You weren't really talking about that. You weren't publicly addressing it, right?

• 50:16Cynthia Thurlow?

  Well, I mean, I was. So I started fasting myself and then in 2018, I had said to my husband, because I'm an introvert, I said, I wanna do a TED Talk because this will be a good challenge for me.

• 50:28Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 50:28Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so I, you, it's a numbers game. You apply to a lot. And if I told you how many TED Talks I applied to, you'd probably be stunned. I always say it's a numbers game. But I think people assume you applied to one or two and then you get it. It doesn't work that way. At least it didn't for me. So I-

• 50:42Lewis Howes?

  How many did you apply for?

• 50:43Cynthia Thurlow?

  Um, over 80.

• 50:44Lewis Howes?

  80?

• 50:45Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yes.

• 50:46Lewis Howes?

  They all said no?

• 50:47Cynthia Thurlow?

  A lot of them said no.

• 50:48Lewis Howes?

  And a couple said yes and you chose one at the end?

• 50:51Cynthia Thurlow?

  Well, I, I did a TED Talk in Toronto in December of 2018, talking about the uber sexy topic of perimenopause.

• 50:58Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 50:58Cynthia Thurlow?

  And right around that time, I was offered a second. And it was in the state I was born in, which is South Carolina. And I was like, oh, you know, I love South Carolina. I'd love to do it there. And I had to make a decision, you can't do two talks about the same subject. And so I remember looking at my husband and I said, what should I do this talk on? He said, I said, what do I know a lot about? He goes, intermittent fasting. It was that easy. And so I said, oh, I'm gonna do the talk about intermittent fasting. And then they said, Cynthia, we really want you to speak at our event, but we really would like to have a female slanted discussion because people are always asking for this. So that was the next thing that was decided for me. And so I was talking about fasting in my group programs and with my clients, but I wasn't per se like hanging a shingle and saying like, I'm the fasting guru.

• 51:43Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 51:43Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so when I say intermittent fasting picked me, it's because, you know, after that talk went viral, it was like, whoa. Now, you know, now I have a platform to be able to help more people. And so I very humbly accept that. But yeah, when that talk went viral, that changed everything. And we weren't prepared, I mean, at all. I told my kids, we're gonna have a low-key summer, I mean, no big deal. And then all of a sudden, it was like my website crashed and, you know, all of a sudden, we were scrambling to...

• 52:10Lewis Howes?

  So it was 2019, right?

• 52:11Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah.

• 52:12Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 52:12Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah, so the talk was in March and then the talk was released in May and then boom. It was like, like...

• 52:18Lewis Howes?

  Everything took off?

• 52:19Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah.

• 52:19Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and now the book.

• 52:21Cynthia Thurlow?

  And then the book, yeah. And then so then the book opportunity came out. And the irony, and I'm sure this probably happened to you, you know, early in your career, that people would reach out and they wanted to write a book. And where I went to New York and I met this one publisher and I was like, yeah, I don't think I want to write the book. And then I had to wait a little longer until I had kind of like formulated, if I'm gonna write this book, let's make sure it's like high value. So the IF45, which is part of my book, is what came out of that viral TEDx. Like literally, I had to create a program like instantly. And so I just started to fine tune this program. It was like, what works, what doesn't work? You know, do we want it for men and women? I mean, it was initially, it was for men and women. And then it got more, you know, kind of aligned with just for women.

• 53:02Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Inspiring.

• 53:04Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah.

• 53:05Lewis Howes?

  What has been the the best part of this, you know, talk going viral and the biggest challenge?

• 53:10Cynthia Thurlow?

  Oh, gosh. The best, I think, just the realization that leaving clinical medicine six years ago was the right decision. Because I kept saying I was tired of writing prescriptions. And I wanted to be able to help more people. So I think it provided the validation that that was the right decision. Because I think my husband thought I had a hobby up until that point.

• 53:28Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 53:29Cynthia Thurlow?

  Kept saying, is this a hobby or are you really, like, you really want to build a business? So I would say the best thing that happened was it made me realize that I was on the right path. Like, really, the the universe had validated that you are on the right path is what you're supposed to be doing.

• 53:42Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 53:43Cynthia Thurlow?

  I think the greatest challenge is finding balance. I mean, balance is elusive. And having a family. And especially like now I'm on the tail end of kids, like, I will be an empty nester in four years.

• 53:54Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 53:55Cynthia Thurlow?

  And I'm like, oh, my gosh, my kids are, it's like, every single day is important. And so the realization that, like, my greatest priority ultimately are my kids and my family.

• 54:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:07Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so that is the challenge of creating a business, nurturing a business, growing a business. And the realization that, like, you know, time is fleeting with my kids. And so it's that constant, like, my husband is great. In terms of, like, allowing me the the ability to be able to do a lot of travel. He travels too. But I think that's my greatest challenge, just finding balance. You know, I don't want to look back and say that I I missed out on my kids. You know, this this last, like, four years with one and two with the other before they go off to college. And so for me, I think what I've started doing is really leaning into traveling with them.

• 54:43Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 54:44Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so this past summer, we had a very big trip, which was a lot of fun. My son's been learning Ger- my youngest has been learning German. And so we took a bucket list trip, which was amazing.

• 54:53Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 54:54Cynthia Thurlow?

  And so teenagers, when they're stuck with their parents for two weeks, it's a lot of bonding. And so they let their guard down. And then they're really open to have those, like, deep conversations. Like, I'm sitting at dinner going, I can't believe my kids are telling me this.

• 55:06Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 55:07Cynthia Thurlow?

  But, like, wanting them to know, like, we value this time that we spend together. You know, they they've they've definitely have benefited from all the successes come down the pipe.

• 55:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's amazing.

• 55:19Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah.

• 55:19Lewis Howes?

  You speak other languages?

• 55:21Cynthia Thurlow?

  I used to speak some French.

• 55:23Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 55:23Cynthia Thurlow?

  And if you don't use it, you lose it.

• 55:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 55:26Cynthia Thurlow?

  Which is unfortunate. And so I always say like, had I known I was going to end up in healthcare, I would have learned Spanish. That would have been far more valuable.

• 55:32Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 55:33Cynthia Thurlow?

  Because I didn't have a lot of French speaking patients. But thankfully they had language lines. So there was like hundreds of people that could interpret.

• 55:40Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 55:40Cynthia Thurlow?

  Being in Washington DC.

• 55:41Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Inspiring stuff. Well, there's a lot of things about fasting that I want people to know about, but you've got a lot of the answers in the book, Intermittent Fasting Transformation, The 45 Day Program for Women to Lose Stubborn Weight, Improve Hormonal Health, and Slow Aging, which are all things that are important for a lot of people. So make sure you guys get a copy of this book. You got a lot of women that watch and listen. So make sure you get a copy for yourself or give it to a lady friend of yours as well. And they can get it at your site. They can get it online. But what's the main website to send people to and the main social media for you?

• 56:19Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah, I would say my website. So it's www.cynthiaThurlo.com. And you can get links to Barnes and Noble, Amazon, etc. I am most active on Instagram. So it's Cynthia underscore Thurlow underscore. I made the mistake when that topic was viral, Louis, that I had a business name. And so by the time I changed everything over, it was nearly impossible to get my name together. So on different platforms, it's a little different variation.

• 56:44Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 56:44Cynthia Thurlow?

  If you follow me on Twitter, I'm a little snarky. I'll just forewarn everybody.

• 56:47Lewis Howes?

  You're snarky in terms of like health topics and things like that?

• 56:51Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yes, I'm a little bit. I mean, I grew up in New Jersey.

• 56:53Lewis Howes?

  You like a little dig it in there.

• 56:55Cynthia Thurlow?

  But I'm respectful. I mean, I'm never, I'm never mean. I'm never cool. But sometimes I can be a little snarky. So I have to forewarn people.

• 57:01Lewis Howes?

  You're like Mike, Metabolic Mike. He kind of like.

• 57:04Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah.

• 57:05Lewis Howes?

  His approach, you know?

• 57:06Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yep. Although I stay away from the pandemic just because as a licensed healthcare provider, you don't want to poke that stick.

• 57:13Lewis Howes?

  That's a whole nother conversation we could have, but amazing. Well, I want to ask you a couple of final questions, Cynthia. This one's called the three truths. So imagine it's your last day on earth, many years away. You get to live as long as you want to live, and you get to accomplish and experience everything you want to live with friends, family, career. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your work with you. So we don't have access to this book, or this conversation, or anything you create is gone for whatever reason. But you have three lessons to share with the world, three things you know to be true from all your experiences. What would be those three truths for you?

• 57:47Cynthia Thurlow?

  Oh, gosh, I would say be kind. You know, I think that the world can be a challenging place, and kindness is totally underrated. I would say adversity leads to opportunity.

• 58:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 58:01Cynthia Thurlow?

  I think that's really important, that people shouldn't shy away from challenging times. They should lean into them. And of course, it would be remiss if I didn't say eat less often.

• 58:12Lewis Howes?

  So many benefits. Yeah, eat less often. I want to acknowledge you, Cynthia, for leaning into the assignment that life has given you, right? You were trying some of these things. You got sick, you're in the hospital, then you did the talk, and the talk created a new platform for you, and you said you're going to lean into it and not shy away from it. I think a lot of people are suffering. Obesity is bigger than ever. Health problems are bigger than ever. And I think people are afraid to feel the adversity like you talked about, which is like limiting the foods they want, or having less food, or restricting the time.

• 58:52Lewis Howes?

  And so for you to be leading the way with having experience of it, working and going through health challenges yourself, and being a, you know, ER nurse, to also teach from that standpoint of what you've seen and experienced, adds a lot of value to the world. So I really appreciate and acknowledge you for showing up, for creating this, and for diving into the information so we can receive it. So thank you for that. I want to make sure again, people get the book, check it out. We'll have it all linked up for you guys. Make sure you check this out. How else can we be of service for you today? Anything else we can do to support you?

• 59:28Cynthia Thurlow?

  Yeah, no, thank you. I would say, you know, check out the podcast. I have a wonderful podcast called Everyday Wellness that I'm really proud of. I feel like it's really been, you know, my life's work is now to help make information accessible so that people can take action. That's always the goal is to make sure that people take action. And make, you know, there's lots of podcasts that are out there, but this one is specifically comes from a very heart-centered place.

• 59:58Lewis Howes?

  It's beautiful. I love it. Check out the podcast, the website, the book, everything. Final question for you, what is your definition of greatness?

• 1:00:09Cynthia Thurlow?

  I think on a lot of levels, you know, greatness comes from within. You know, it's really, you know, your own journey into determining what makes sense of, you know, your gifts. Like each, all of us are given gifts and it's what we choose to do with them. So, you know, from my perspective, greatness is really leaning into the gifts that you were given, even if they aren't entirely abundantly

• 1:00:36Cynthia Thurlow?

  clear to you at the time that you go through them. I feel like on a lot of levels, you know, I started as pre-law, got into law school, didn't go, became a nurse, became an NP. Like all of those things didn't make sense to me until I got to a point after being so sick that I was like, oh, this all now makes sense. So like really leaning into what makes you special and unique. Each one of us have gifts that we should lean into.

• 1:01:01Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media. Media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter.

• 1:01:44Lewis Howes?

  And now it's time to go out there and do something great.