#462: Josh Richards on Becoming an Entrepreneur

Josh Richards is one of the most famous TikTok stars in the world. He has recently started to spend most of his time as an investor and entrepreneur. This conversation unpacks the transition. In this conversation, we discuss how Josh built his large audience, where his income comes from, why he is interested in building companies, and the types of businesses that he is looking to invest in. ======================= OKCoin.com is the leading crypto exchange for both beginners and experienced users. You can fund your account in under 2 minutes, and get access to the most advanced trading engine, all while paying the lowest trading fees in the industry (0.1%). Visit www.okcoin.com/pomp and open your account today. ======================= Own crypto in multiple exchanges and wallets? Sync them to CoinStats so you track and manage them from one place. Track 8000+ coins and 300+ exchanges all from the Coinstats platform. Try it for free or go to coinstats.app/pomp and get 40% off your premium subscription. ======================= Pomp writes a daily letter to over 100,000 investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy to understand language, while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://www.pompletter.com =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Let's kick this thing off. Josh Richards is one of the most famous TikTok stars in the world. He has recently started to spend most of his time as an investor and entrepreneur. This conversation unpacks that transition. In this conversation, we discuss how Josh built his large audience, where his income comes from, why he is interested in building companies, and the type of businesses that he is looking to invest in. I really enjoyed this conversation with Josh, and I think you'll enjoy it as well. Before we get into the episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. First up is OKCoin. There are a lot of crypto exchanges for us to choose from. Whether you are new to crypto, an advanced trader, or an institution, the

• 0:45Anthony Pompliano?

  most important thing when choosing an exchange is typically how easy it is to fund your account and the cryptos you can access through it. I always recommend people to have an account on a regulated exchange, so you can easily go in and out of the market using your bank account. Recently, we've seen large regulated exchanges hike up trading and withdrawal fees, which isn't very cool. OKCoin is a US-based regulated exchange that serves 184 countries, and is super easy to use and offers some of the lowest fees in the industry. What I love about OKCoin as an individual, I can go from registering to verifying my profile and connecting my bank account in minutes. In fact, OKCoin is literally the fastest exchange to go from zero to having a crypto portfolio. You don't have to wait three days for your deposit to show up, or upload multiple ID documents, or facial scans

• 1:30Anthony Pompliano?

  to get started, which by the way is a little creepy. They've also been listing popular DeFi assets, and I hear they're working on even more popular listings. So go open an account at OKCoin.com/pomp. Again, OKCoin.com/pomp. Go get an account at the US-based regulated exchange, OKCoin.com/pomp. Next up is CoinStats. They're a new sponsor, so pay attention here. If you own crypto in a lot of places like me, you know how difficult it can be to keep track of it all. That's why CoinStats is one of my favorite apps. Whether you keep your crypto on hardware wallets, mobile wallets, exchanges, liquidity pools, or somewhere else, CoinStats lets you track Track it all in one place on your iPhone, Android, Apple Watch, or computer.

• 2:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Basically, they help you keep track of everything in a very simple way. You can see all of your transactions and your profit-loss history, and you get advanced analytics on your portfolio's performance. So you need CoinStats if you own crypto. You can try it for free or go to coinstats.app/pomp. Coinstats.app/pomp. Coinstats.app/pomp and you'll get 40% off your premium subscription. So if you own crypto and it's anywhere, hardware wallet, mobile wallet, exchange, liquidity pool, or somewhere else, you gotta have CoinStats. It lets you track everything all in one place across your iPhone, Android, Apple Watch, or computer.

• 2:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Go to coinstats.app/pomp. Lastly, don't forget that I write a daily letter to over 100,000 investors about business, technology, and finance. I break down complex topics in easy-to-understand language while sharing my personal opinion on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at pompletter.com. Again, pompletter.com. All right, let's get into this episode with Josh. I hope you guys enjoy this one.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano is a partner at Morgan Creek Digital. All opinions expressed by Pomp or his guests on this podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Morgan Creek Digital or Morgan Creek Capital Management. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:45Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, guys, bang, bang. I've got Josh Richards here. What's going on, man? Thank you for doing this.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  Hey, thank you for having me, man.

• 3:52Anthony Pompliano?

  You're like the king of podcasts. And I feel like you've got like a million podcasts and are on everyone's podcasts.

• 3:58Speaker 02

  No, yeah, I think that I've done about a podcast a day for the last month. That's what it feels like.

• 4:04Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, how the hell did you get famous on the internet? What's your story?

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's it's kind of a weird one, but I started because my sister just threw me in a video. It was back in the Musically days, four years ago. And it was at the start of the 2016 summer. And then the video blew up on her account. People started asking her like, yo, what's, what's his account? What's his at? And I didn't have one, so I was like, oh, I'll make one. This will be fun, right? And instantly, I'm, I'm like, I'm an athlete and I'm very competitive, right? Like, that's just, that's how I was raised. That's just in my blood. And it's everything I do, I have to be the best at. So for the social media, I instantly turned it into like a goal, like a bunch of goals, a bunch of numbers I had to hit. And it was like, if I don't hit 10,000 followers by the end of this summer, I'm quitting.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  I'm done. Didn't work out for me. So I started working really hard, instantly like hired my sister, put her on a 15% salary based commission, was like treating it exactly like a business. And then slowly but surely just started building myself up. Like, I was focusing a lot on the live stream part of Musically because no one was really touching like that part of the app. They were just focusing on the videos. And there were only like three top live streamers. So I didn't have as much competition if I was going there. And I was a small creator. I only had 60,000 followers at this point, right? And that was like a whole next year, 2017. And so I got my sister to go to every single leaderboard that was on the live stream app.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  If that was the top gifters, top likers, whatever it is. So I was going right to these fans, right? I had like the access of the customer right in front of me. And they were the highest spending customers too, because I actually had the leaderboard. So this way I'm reaching the most important people. I became one of the most like top paid live streamers on the app, actually with only 100,000 followers. When I was going up against these accounts with like 10 million, 12 million followers. So that's where I all started. It was, it was always treated like a business.

• 6:06Anthony Pompliano?

  How much money were you making when you're the top live streamer on Musically?

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Back then, four years ago, I was doing, I was probably doing like $2,000 a night going live.

• 6:17Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, and you were going live every single night?

• 6:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so you're making, so you're making what like $50, $60,000 a month?

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was, it was probably the craziest thing for like a 16 year old. I mean, it was off and on too, because I also was playing sports. So I wouldn't say it was like 2K every night because there were some nights sadly, like I would be like, I had a hockey game or I had this, right? And it's like, so I wasn't able to focus on my social media. But yeah, that's about what it was. Like every time I was going live, it was just the craziest thing.

• 6:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so how do you get from Musically to the big TikTok audience?

• 6:54Speaker 02

  Uh, so when Musically went completely dead, right? Like actually, even when I started when I was 14, it was on the down. It was on the decline, right? Uh, so it was like, I, the app had lasted another year or two. And now TikTok came in and bought it. Everyone was pretty much saying like, this app is over. It's done like TikTok's going to be a joke. No one's going to use this app. And I was actually live streaming because like I said, like I was really focused on being a live streamer. And that was part of like my brand, I would say on TikTok slash Musically. I was streaming while they actually transferred it. The update was coming out at 12. I was live at the exact same time. I wanted to see if like the app crashed, if everyone's accounts restarted and nothing happened. Literally not one thing. I was live, everything stayed the same.

• 7:39Speaker 02

  So I was like, what the heck? Waited 10 more minutes, got off, updated the app. And it was just the exact same thing with a different logo on it, right? And then I noticed the one difference, this crazy difference was the 4U page. And I knew that had to be special because that's like this random change to the, the scrolling feature. Like I'm seeing all these videos of people I didn't follow. I was confused, right? And I studied it for the next two weeks. All I did was watch the videos that were coming up, see what about those videos was unique compared to others? Why those ones were doing the best? And I found out it all had to do with shares and comments. So then I was like, all right, what video is going to blow me up and blow up my account? That is going to cause people to share it, save it, or like comment on it?

• 8:25Speaker 02

  So I was like tutorials, easy. Who doesn't save a tutorial, right? Like you want to have it for later. So when you are going to do it, it's right there in your saved videos. So I did a first tutorial video, 70 million views.

• 8:39Anthony Pompliano?

  What was it? What were you giving this tutorial on?

• 8:41Speaker 02

  It was a transition. I used to do transitions on the app and I threw my hoodie and then like as the hoodie kind of falls, it like it becomes me. If you get kind of like the video I'm giving. Um, and I did a tutorial on how to make that video. It was a quick 30 second video. 70 million views. My account went up probably 300,000 followers and maybe, maybe more honestly, maybe like 500,000 just from the one video. And since that day, I was like, all right, I fucking got it. Like I know what to do. I got the algorithm down. I started posting a tutorial every single week. And then I would also post the video, like the transition video or whatever the video was before it. And then I would be like, the caption would be like tutorial coming soon. So

• 9:24Speaker 02

  then it would get people excited. They would engage more with that video. That video would blow up. Then I would also get the blow up from the tutorial video.

• 9:31Anthony Pompliano?

  At what point do you go from tutorials to dancing and singing and kind of all the things you guys do now?

• 9:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, that was one of the craziest parts about my career is like, how many times have I had to pivot? Like, and it's something that I think I've done quite well. Like, I just found the right times to do it. And it was actually the summer of 2019, before that was clashing with the manager at the time, like awful relationship. And I was like, I gotta, I gotta get out of this. I have to leave. So I left the management and I went on this tour that the manager had told me not to do. He was like, not letting me sign on to the tour, all that. And I was like, fuck it, leaving the manager, doing this tour. I know I need to do it. Went on it. That was called the Lights Out Tour. The tour that actually blew me up and all my friends, like actually like half of the sway,

• 10:21Speaker 02

  the original Sway House of Griffin, Quentin, I mean Griffin, Jaden and Anthony.

• 10:25Anthony Pompliano?

  And so when, when you're doing all of the tours and everything, at what point do you decide like, hey, we should go move to LA?

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Um, so we end the tour. I'm in LA and I only knew Jaden. That was the only kid that was in LA that I knew. And we didn't really hang out on the tour I went on. Um, we maybe saw each other in like the meet and greet line, like five times and just like, we're like cordial with each other, said what's up. Um, but then I was like, I'll just reach out to him and be like, yo, you want to hang out? I'm going to Bryce Hall's house. So I was heading over to Bryce's. I had known him kind of like, not well, but just seen him at events. We were gonna film content. Jaden came over and we all just like started hanging out that night. We partied that night. You know, that sway life's out. Um, and instantly just all bonded, like we became friends very, very quickly.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  And then I met Michael Gruen at Bryce's house. That's when we started the conversation about Talon X and how people were getting treated unfairly or not treated well. And we just came off the tour. So, uh, that's kind of where we actually got taken advantage of a lot of money stolen. Um, when we started to realize and we could actually also make a lot of money off social media. So it all kind of came together perfectly. We were staying at Bryce's at the time. So we're like, let's just move in together. Sway House, Talon X. Now we're here.

• 11:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Where'd you get the sway name from?

• 11:47Speaker 02

  That's actually a funny ass story. We were, I, I remember we were all texting each other in a group chat, like all the boys. And then Michael, um, and we were putting out a New York Times press release. And it was going out in 12 hours and we had no name, not one name for the group. We're all looking up names and like, the first thing I think someone looked up was probably like, a synonym for the word like clout or, or like followers or something. And I guess sway is one. I had no idea, but it's like a word that has to do with like, yeah, clout. So. No one liked the name. We all hated it. We were like, sway sounds stupid. Like it's like swaying.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  Like what the hell? Like we're gonna get memed. This is awful. But then no one came up with anything better. So we were like, fuck it. Let's just send sway. We're doing it. We're going with it. And then that's yeah. And then sway became swayway.

• 12:43Anthony Pompliano?

  I love it. I love it. Uh, when you think of kind of like your business or the business of Josh, what goes into that? Like, how do you think about the products that you have, the companies? How you make money? Just walk me through kind of like how you think of the things you do.

• 12:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, for us, we already have the customer, right? And, and we've actually talked about that a little bit before, but we have done it a complete different way than most people. Usually they build the product out, then they go acquire the customers. We have the customers just following us, liking our photos, listening to everything we say on a daily basis, which is crazy. So the best thing for us to do is listen to our audience. We got to listen to the customers. And that's what we did with the energy drink. And by we, I mean Bryce and I, we were shotgunning Red Bulls in every single YouTube video, just like consistently going. And we noticed these fans were doing the exact same. They started shotgunning energy drinks. They were sending us

• 13:41Speaker 02

  videos challenging us to shotgun against them. And it was like building this trend, videos blowing up on the For You page on TikTok. And we were like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Stop it with the free promo for Red Bull. This is getting ridiculous. Like, we got to figure something out. So that's kind of where we were like, let's create our own energy drink. Stop giving the, like the branding away for free and start selling our own stuff. So yeah, it was just listening to the customer.

• 14:07Anthony Pompliano?

  And so when you think about the things that you sell to them today, there's merchandise that you have, there's energy drink. Is there other things?

• 14:15Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, there's definitely other things that are in the works and then sometimes they're more like charity angles. For example, Unhide is a company I just teamed up with and they're obviously against, you know, the use of animal products and they're trying every single day to just keep improving their product to make it like greener and better for this earth. So that's something that's awesome and also built off of another company called Dog for Dog. I got like, I'm a part of Dog for Dog. They give back a bag of dog food to a shelter every time someone buys one, right? Yeah, it depends if it's either going to be a passion project or something that I'm trying to make maybe a ton of money on, or I'm doing just for the sense of business. But yeah, definitely got to have a little bit of both.

• 15:00Anthony Pompliano?

  What happens in the house when people aren't there? Like, what are you guys doing? I think people think that you guys are like running around with your shirts off, like getting hammered, smoking weed and like, I don't know, like face planting in the pool or something like whatever. But like, what are you, what are you guys doing when no one's there?

• 15:16Speaker 02

  I mean, the thing is, is like, there's usually never anyone here but us. Like, it's this crazy thing that like, all of a sudden, Sway just decided to change within the last, like, two months, three months. But everyone was just like, alright, I'm gonna mentally mature by like three years. I don't know what happened. I don't know who talked to who, or like, what was put in the water at the Sway house, but we all just decided to chill out. And, I mean, when we're all together, like, we're just hanging out. Like, we're just boys, right? We're regular people. A lot of times, like, people are trying to film inside our house, or they're trying to like, get into, get into the Sway house, like, break into our house, which is like, against the law. It's crazy that people think they can just do that because we're

• 15:57Speaker 02

  social media influencers. But it's like, what do you expect to see? Like, we're not like, up to some Illuminati type shit in our house. Like, we're regular people. Like, we might be like playing Scrabble or like ping pong. You know what I mean? Like, watching a YouTube video. You're not gonna get anything cool. Like, when you come, you're like, oh, oh, look at this, what are they doing? Like, we're gonna be like, yo, could you leave? We're just like, trying to watch Family Guy. Eat Doritos. Like, you know what I mean? We just do regular things.

• 16:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Who's the best at ping pong?

• 16:26Speaker 02

  Uh, we actually had a tournament yesterday.

• 16:28Anthony Pompliano?

  I saw, and I saw there was money on the line, too.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Um, well, you see, actually, I had a bad shoulder that day, so I was just taking it easy. I'll, I'll just say that to start it off. So like purposely got out first round. Um, but one of the managers, Maxwell, actually took the dub, won it, and then Bryce lost to Blake. So Blake seems to be the number one in the house right now, even though like, I'm pretty sure I'm undefeated against him. But.

• 16:58Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. And then what's going on in terms of like, when you guys go outside of the house? I don't think people, especially in like the business and investing community, understand enough. They know you guys have big social followings, but uh, like if you go somewhere in Los Angeles or elsewhere, and you've got a couple of your friends with you, and let's say you guys go to a Starbucks, or you walk into a restaurant, like, do you guys just get mobbed? Or do people kind of just like, hey, they know who you are, but they leave you guys alone?

• 17:22Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, it's, it's getting crazier every day, right? And it's also hard to judge with like, I feel like COVID going on in the quarantine. But I, I remember like going out before COVID and like, we would get people that come up to us all the time. And maybe they, it would end up building up to a group of like 25, 50 or whatever. But if we're in like a mall, that's different, right? Like you're in a closed space. Of course, people are eat, like going to be able to mob you. But if you're just walking Melrose, or if you're walking on Sunset, like the difference from five months ago to now is insane. Like everywhere we go, there's people that know us now. And I think that it's because a lot of the things we do are now bigger than just ourselves.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  Like it's not just about like me, it's not just about Bryce, it's not just about Griffin, it's not about Sway. Like we're trying to make a difference and, and actually have an impact on people. So I think that's starting to happen with a lot of the press we're getting. So yeah, I think it's, I, I, it feels so like douchey to say like, yeah, we get mobbed. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, I don't want to say that, but yeah, we get a lot of people that come up to us and ask us for photos. And it, it's awesome, honestly, like feels, it feels good to be loved.

• 18:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And I think part of what's so fascinating to me, as I've gotten to know you guys is like, The first time I saw, I think it was either Griffin or Bryce, I can't remember, somebody tweeted and all of a sudden I saw people being like, you know, basically like, notice me, like, like my tweet, reply to my tweet. I mean, like, just crazy. I was like, what planet are these guys living on? Like, literally, that's what people want. And then Bryce was explaining to me, like, literally just liking somebody's tweet. They go nuts. They'll screenshot and they'll send it to all their friends. They'll like, do all this kind of stuff. And so like, how do you think about, you know, something that's like a low friction, like, pretty low investment on your standpoint? Or just like, if you like a tweet, or you follow somebody back, or you respond, or whatever. But you can't sit there and do that all day long.

• 19:18Anthony Pompliano?

  But when you do do it, it means something to somebody. It's like, how do you think about engaging with fans online? And how does that, do you think, translate to like, the fandom that you see in real life when they run up to you and all that?

• 19:29Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. I mean, that's actually why I went live. Like, that's why I started my career by going live. It was because I was able to be a lot more one-on-one with my supporters and my fans, because I'm constantly getting questions. I'm constantly being able to answer them. Actually was able to memorize some people's usernames. It's like, if they came on the live a lot, like, actually build like friendships with these, these fans. And that is probably like, one of the most important things to do if you want a dedicated fanbase, or like, a cult-type following, right? Where they will just follow you wherever you go. They're gonna like, take your word on everything. And, I mean, engaging is a huge part of that. If that's like, sometimes I just go through my Twitter, and I just go through my mentions.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  And I just like, go through and like, when people are talking on my name, and like, they're saying good things about me, I'm just liking tweets. And like, fans appreciate that. Or if I go through my tagged photos on Instagram, and I posted something about people going and rating the podcast five stars, right? I'll go through and just make sure to engage with everyone, because they went and did that for me. And it's like, you know what? I want them to feel something a little extra special. Like, it's just little things like that. I think that's important for creators to do. Especially when like, dude, it takes five minutes, you could probably go through in like, 150 people's posts. And then they're like, they've made their week. You know what I mean?

• 20:48Anthony Pompliano?

  Absolutely. And so when you think of like, if somebody's starting out today, and trying to build these large audiences, is TikTok the place to do it? Is it Triller? Is it Twitter, Instagram? Is it something I don't know about? Like, where do you think people today, if they're starting, should look at?

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, for me, when I first started,

• 21:07Speaker 02

  I was, I just used Musically because it was the one video platform. Like, that's why I used it. It was the one place where videos were able to go viral very easily. The thing is, is now every platform has that, right? Every platform has like hopped on the TikTok wave where like these videos are in explore page. And so it's like, you can really start anywhere. I mean, it's going to be probably a lot harder to get traction on YouTube off the bat. It's going to be a little bit harder for Instagram as well. But the thing is also is like, when you build on those platforms that are a little harder, like YouTube or Instagram, and you build from nothing else, not TikTok, not Trailer, not, you build a really, really engaged platform or followers on that platform, right?

• 21:52Speaker 02

  Because there's something about those apps like TikTok and Trailer when it's such quick content. A lot of times people just like and follow you for your one video that you posted or for your content. They don't follow and like you for you. And that's the difference between YouTube is it's a long form con, it's long form content. They see really who you are. They see what you like, what you care about. And then they get attached to that instead.

• 22:14Anthony Pompliano?

  Is it fair to say that you guys put way more time and energy into the YouTube videos? And the TikToks are more of like, hey, there's those dances going viral? Or you just pull a song and listen, you know, and kind of sing along to it or whatever?

• 22:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think that also, like, people say like TikTok's so easy, right? And like, I'll give it to them. Like, you know what I mean? Like, putting a video in front of yourself or a camera in front of yourself filming like 15 second videos. It's, it's not that hard. But the thing is, is knowing the difference, like being able to just look at a video and know instantly the difference between like, is this video going to go viral? Or is it not like, it's not, anyone can do it. It takes practice. And like, it takes a few years, but like, that's a real thing, right? Like, there's, there's a real part of it where it's like, the creators like, I think this way has it really well. Well, they, they've just developed like a viral eye, right? Where they can just see a video and they'll be like, I know that's going to go big on TikTok. So it doesn't take us as long anymore.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  And we're able to focus on other platforms where we're not so, um, you know, like savvy. Like YouTube, we were getting better, but we have only been doing YouTube for eight, nine months, where TikTok's been four years.

• 23:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And I also think it's just you build muscle memory. It's like you have practice.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 23:28Anthony Pompliano?

  You know, yeah, you know, it works and what doesn't. Do you guys work together at all from a content distribution standpoint? Like, will you ever post a video and then send it to the other guys and they all engage with it to kind of drive it on whatever platform? Or is it kind of just now you guys have such big audiences, you don't need to do that stuff anymore?

• 23:42Speaker 02

  Each other's shit. Like, you gotta do that, right? That's just a part of being like the boys. Like, there's never one time I don't see, like, Jaden, for example, he posted a song promo today. He's coming up with a new song soon. Better Off Dead, shout out to Jaden. But he, I instantly just reposted that on my story. Like, it wasn't like Jaden told me to, or I felt like I needed to. It's just kind of our attitude towards each other. Like, I would feel less successful if Jaden wasn't successful. And I, I hope, and I know, like, the boys have that same mentality towards me or towards any of the boys, you know?

• 24:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. What's up with all the drama in terms of, like, you guys are 20, 21 years old. I feel like you are going through everything that 20, 21 year olds go through in terms of girls and, you know, who's talking to who and all this kind of nonsense. The only difference is that you're literally doing it with, like, the whole world watching, basically?

• 24:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:35Anthony Pompliano?

  And, you know, and then you got Dave asking you on a podcast, like, hey, are you guys dating? And all of that?

• 24:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:41Anthony Pompliano?

  What's that like?

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, it's, it's kind of crazy because it definitely does make you, like,

• 24:52Speaker 02

  always think about what you're gonna say, right? Like, two, three years ago, I was very more just outspoken, and I wouldn't have really watched what I said. And I got in trouble for it a lot. I mean, like, in school, I would get in trouble, wherever I'd get in trouble, because I just, like, said what was on my mind. I was just like, fuck it. But the thing is, is, like, you can't really do that in this industry. Like, I can get as close to, like, the line as possible, or I can, like, even go over the line, which I do. And some people just look at it as, like, Josh is an idiot. He's, he's like, he's, you know, he just is intense, he's edgy, whatever. It's like, Sometimes I want to push the line because I want to see how far I can go.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  Like people, people have become so soft now. It's just like, what? I don't, I don't even, I just can't say anything. I feel like I can't say anything. I feel like, you know, it's like really hard to just be yourself nowadays too, because like, no one lets you learn from your mistakes. No one's letting you build like, and if you look back at me six months ago, I was a, I was a shit like, person compared to who I am now. Not because like, it's because I was younger. I was 17 and I didn't really know what I was doing. Like it's, it's just kind of like that. Like people grow and in this industry, they don't let them.

• 26:07Anthony Pompliano?

  Absolutely. Last question about content is you got the podcast BFF with, with Portnoy. What's your favorite thing about Dave and what's your least favorite thing about Dave?

• 26:16Speaker 02

  Okay. Um, I think my favorite thing about Dave is that he doesn't let there be a line, you know?

• 26:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Facts, facts.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  He does not let there be a line. He doesn't care what people are going to say about him. And it sometimes it gets him in a lot of trouble, but at the same time, it's like, I respect him for it. It's, no one's really doing it anymore. And people used to be able to do that all the time. That's how it was everywhere. Right? So I just, I just think that's absolutely baller. Um, and then.

• 26:49Anthony Pompliano?

  And by the way, you're not really doing anything if you're not pushing the line, right? If you're not trying to figure out where the lines are, right? So, yeah.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  No, yeah, like I would prefer to be polarizing than just be like on everyone's good side. You know what I'm saying? Like, cause like, if everyone's just like, okay with me or they're like, yeah, that guy's cool. Like I'm not sticking out in anyone's heads. If I'm polarizing, then there's going to be people that fucking love me. And then there's going to be people that fucking hate me, but I'm in both of their mouths all day long. So, keep bringing me like the paycheck, right?

• 27:20Anthony Pompliano?

  I hear you.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Uh, but for the, the thing I like, the, or what I like least about Dave, um,

• 27:28Speaker 02

  Gosh, I feel like this is about to be a BFFs like segment next week. He's gonna be like, so Josh. But anyways.

• 27:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, now, well, now I'm gonna send it to him. So whatever you say, he's definitely gonna listen.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, perfect. Um, I, I would just say like, I don't even know if I have one like it's, it's like a hard situation. Like, I would say like it, it doesn't really bug me because I love it for the show, but him like calling me out on the nest stuff or like the, he really just doesn't let me like sometimes slide. You know what I mean? He never lets me slide like.

• 28:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you want him to let you slide?

• 28:04Speaker 02

  That's the thing. It's like, it's a love hate thing, you know? It's like, sometimes I'm like, fuck you, man. Like, you really just did that. Like, I'm trying to like bounce off that question, obviously. But then at the same time, I'm like, ah, I know that's about to get a million likes on TikTok. So.

• 28:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Why don't you ever ask him about his love life?

• 28:22Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, I think I'm just like waiting for the right moment to attack and just unleash like all this stuff about Dave. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just backing it up. I'm getting an inventory stocking up and then it's just gonna be like Merry fucking Christmas.

• 28:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you have inventory on them?

• 28:39Speaker 02

  I mean, I have a few things. I mean, like some of it's like public and he just like, that's the other thing is he just doesn't care. Like, it's so hard to get a guy that just is like, yeah, no, that happened. You're like, okay. And like, you don't know what to say. Just he gets you every time. It's awesome.

• 28:57Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, let's talk about the business and investing stuff. Why are you interested in building these companies and investing in them?

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, like, like I said, actually, even going back to the content stuff, like ever since I started, I treated it as a business. I always knew I was gonna do something like as a kid, I was gonna do something more than just like the regular path of like going to college and going to school. Like, I was seven years old being like, I'm not gonna go to college, right? Like, I already knew that. And it wasn't because I wasn't smart or it wasn't because I didn't like school. I strive to be the best at school. Like, because like I said, I'm competitive at everything. If there was one kid that got a higher mark than me on a test, I would get pissed. I was like, fuck that guy. Like, I know I could have gone or done better if I put like five more minutes of studying, right? Like, that was just me. I was competitive everywhere. So, I mean.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  Like I did, I did the hockey business when I was like 13. I started a hockey shirt company. And then I did another one when I was like 14, just before the, the musically thing started with lacrosse. Like it was always just building and starting new projects and I just loved that. And then when I finally had the, like this tool, social media, this lightning in a bottle, where I could actually start building things to a huge degree compared to selling T-shirts door to door and selling them at hockey tournaments. Like I was, I had to jump on the opportunity. Like I was so excited and the first one was Talon X. Like I saw that there was an issue.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  I saw that people weren't getting treated fairly in the industry. I saw that there were no managers really for social, like TikTok specifically. And I was like, there's a hole. As an entrepreneur, like I need to fill that hole. Like that's what, that's what entrepreneurs do. Like, and that's just how my brain works. It's like, how can I fix that problem? How can I fix this problem? So when we started doing Annie and then like going down the road with partnering with different companies, acquiring equity, the next big thing was like, all right, let's, let's start doing it. Some investing, like why don't I put my money that I'm making into good use as well? So that was like a journey we started probably three and a half months ago, I would say, or three months ago.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Michael and I at least, and it was just the, the coolest thing to me at the start because it was like I was investing in my earlier self, if that makes sense. Like it gave me that feeling where it was like, I could have, I would have been one of those people if I didn't have social media. Like I would be one of those founders going to people asking for their money. If I didn't have social media and the money to build my companies on my own. So to like, get to listen to all these founders, like and how passionate they are about their projects, getting to be a part of the future and be like, me knowing like I could be investing in the next Uber, the next Airbnb, the next big tech company. Like that is the coolest feeling in the world. To know that I'm going to be a part of the future.

• 31:57Anthony Pompliano?

  How much money did you make last year?

• 32:00Speaker 02

  Um, I did.

• 32:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Just ballpark, you have to tell us exactly.

• 32:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I did pretty good. The, I'll just say what like the Forbes thing said, like they said, I did 1.5 if that, so that gives you.

• 32:13Anthony Pompliano?

  But ballpark accurate.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Okay. All right. So does that, is your thought process like that's going to grow to three, four, or five million dollars over the next two or three years? Or do you think that kind of from an income standpoint, you'll stay, it's called around a million and a half, and then you can invest and that's how you're going to grow your wealth?

• 32:32Speaker 02

  Um, I think that it will actually probably grow quite a bit this next year, 2021 for sure. I think like my actual, uh, income, like getting cash revenue will definitely higher, probably like three or four X actually.

• 32:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Why do you think that?

• 32:52Speaker 02

  Uh, I think that because I just know the different like series and, um, content ideas I'm going to be rolling out next year. There's like a lot of exciting stuff that I'm just working on behind the scenes that hasn't been announced, um, and will be working on for a while, but it's definitely going to be a crazy year next year if that stuff gets, hits those deadlines.

• 33:14Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And when you think about the investing stuff, is this just kind of like the long-term way? So like you keep optimizing for driving as much income as you can today, but then you're going to invest capital and, uh, that capital will grow, you know, kind of illiquidly for quite a long time. And then that's kind of the, the big home run. Or do you look at it as, hey, I'm going to need those investments because this income is going to dry up at some point? And I might, I want to keep doing the content or whatever.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  I mean, I think it's, it's a little bit of the, like the last one you said, where it's like kind of hedging your bets, right? I mean, you've got to be smart, smart with your money, period. Like if, if I had less money than I do, then there would be different plays that I'd be making, right? And if I had more, then there'd be different plays I'd be making in that sense. Like it's just like knowing what you got and being the smartest you can with it. But at the same time, it's like, I know I'm making money right now. I know that I have, um, this like.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  Like lightning in a bottle, like I said, but I don't know if I'm gonna have it in 10 years, but what I can do for the next two, maybe three is get connected to every young founder, get connected with every billionaire, get connected to every company and get in with those companies, be a part of them. And then like, I'm sitting here being the future of the 10 years. You know what I mean? Like I am the future in 10 years because I put my money into everything or not everything, but the right companies. So I'm, that's, that's why.

• 34:44Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. When we talk about like doing the right things with your money, I think I feel like I've gotten to know you, Bryce Griffin enough where like you guys actually are very smart about what you do with your money. And you're obviously investing a lot. You guys aren't doing kind of too crazy of things, but what's the dumbest thing you've ever done with your money?

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Um, I think for me, it was probably buying that Polaris. That Polaris was probably the dumbest purchase I ever made because one, it only busted my hand open, which was just like inconvenient. And I think I've only drove it twice.

• 35:19Anthony Pompliano?

  And you've only driven it twice?

• 35:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it cost me like 12 grand.

• 35:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. This is gonna sound, this is gonna sound crazy to people, but like, that's not that bad. Like, it's not like you went and bought a $250,000 Ferrari and then crashed it a day later, right?

• 35:33Speaker 02

  No, or like, and I'm also not the guy to like buy a $60,000 watch, right? Or like, I like even like a watch period. It's just like, I'm not that guy. Like, I'm the worst person to talk to when it comes to like bad expenses, because even that expense got paid off because it was a tax write-off for content by the Polaris. Like, it's like, I don't really do those dumb purchases anymore. I would say, when I started feeling like I was making money and I had like 100K in the bank, it was right after like Lights Out Tour probably. And I was like, I hadn't got my tour money yet, but I'd been making like a good amount of livestream money. And I was like spending money on designer clothes. I was, I probably

• 36:16Speaker 02

  spent $20,000 during that summer just on clothing. And it was like, why? I don't wear any of it anymore. That's the best part. Like, I don't like that fashion. Like, that's just not me. I'm like a hoodie and jeans or like a hockey jersey and pants. Like, it's like, I don't wear like that type of style. And it's also just like, it's so flashy and... Dude, it just sits in my closet. I hate that I spent the money on it. Like I spent $2,000 on a sweater and I haven't worn it in six months.

• 36:47Anthony Pompliano?

  What did your parents say the first time that you were like, like they like realized like, oh shit, our kids like making like a good decent amount of money?

• 36:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was um ninth grade was like coming to an end and I was starting to like, they started to see in their PayPal, like these like 500, $600 payments coming in all the time. And they were like, what the heck is going on? And I kept like, being like, that's my money, guys. Don't worry about it. Like, that's all I would say. I'd just like, that's mine. Don't worry about it. So they probably thought I was out here like selling drugs. Like they, they straight thought I was just like chopping out of our basement. Um, but they, they came to me and they were like, so Josh, like, we heard, like, my dad heard about it at school that I was doing like social media. That's how we like, and like, I guess he had seen me like making videos. So he just like put it together.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  And he was like, like, what is it? What is musically? Like, what are you doing? Like, how are you making this money? And I was like, you know, like I go live, I stream and they give me like money. And he's like, is this like porn? Like so confused, right? Like my dad has no idea. Like he's hearing like a live stream donate. It's weird, right? Like, so anyway, um, I ended up like, kind of like showing them the app and everything like that. But then they were instantly just like, all right, that's cool. Like heck. Yeah. Because they were already used to my like crazy business schemes and like ideas, right? Like I destroyed their basement already with the lacrosse company because I was dying the mesh and the whole carpet in our basement was just like a tie dye t-shirt.

• 38:16Speaker 02

  And then um, I had like tried to take the tub where I was like bending wood to create skim boards like so that you could go on the beach and ride. Like I, I always wrecked our stuff and like, so when they finally saw that I was making money, they were probably like, heck yeah, now Josh can pay for this. Like let's, let's go.

• 38:34Anthony Pompliano?

  And he's not going to screw up our house even better.

• 38:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. All he has to do is go on his phone. So we're safe.

• 38:39Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. What's your goal in terms of 10 or 20 years from now? What do you hope to kind of be able to say like, here's what I've accomplished?

• 38:48Speaker 02

  Um, I wanna, I definitely want within the next 10 to 20 years for one of my companies to have a big exit. That's like just a goal of mine, right? To be able to sell one of my companies and kind of just be able to say like, I did that. I, I built a company and like, that's, that's just the coolest feeling, I feel like. Um, I would say, keep investing, like, I wanna have a fund. I wanna be a part of, I, I am a part of the Remus Fund, which has been, is gonna be a really cool experience, but I wanna start my own as well, not just come in like I did there.

• 39:23Speaker 02

  And then just like, continue with entertaining, cuz I love to entertain, like, I do love business more than anything, but at the same time, it's like, I've always been that outgoing loud kid that was either the class clown or disrupting assemblies, or like, I, I did that, right? Like, that's what I like to do, so. I would love to be known still in like this entertainment world in 10 to 20 years, if that's just in a different way, that would be cool, you know what I mean?

• 39:50Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, and throughout this whole thing, last question for you, uh, well, actually, I got a couple of other questions, but, uh, who's the craziest, like coolest person you've met through all of this?

• 40:02Speaker 02

  Um, I've met some like, super insane people, super crazy people, but like, some of the coolest people that I met, like, just like right off the bat, when I started talking to them, were probably, Sean Rad was really cool when I met him, like, he, he just has always like been giving me advice, has always, uh, just been a great mentor to me. Um, and then also Ashton Kutcher, I've got to talk to him a couple of times, and he's just like, great, greatest guy, he's funny, he's like, he's just kinda like one of the boys, had a great conversation with him, and then Shaq. Shaq was super cool to talk to, he's just, he's just, he is a funny motherfucker, dude.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  I answer the phone with him and every time I answer the phone, I just know I'm about to laugh every single time. So.

• 40:51Anthony Pompliano?

  What's he, what's he call you about?

• 40:53Speaker 02

  I mean, sometimes it's just like nothing sometime like one time we chatted and he was just like saying like, yo, you can call me anytime. Like I'm here. If you, if you ever need some advice, never ever need me to ask or ask me anything. So I was just like, oh, yeah. So it's just like, yeah. So it's.

• 41:12Anthony Pompliano?

  You ever take him up on it and call?

• 41:14Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I call, I was on a call with him the other day. We were just talking about like a couple like business ideas I was thinking about and getting his advice on it. I mean, just like those type of relationships in the business world is so cool to have, like having those people that are kind of like your mentors or just like are, are nice enough to help you out when you need it. That's where I've met some of the coolest people.

• 41:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I'll, I'll, uh, we'll hold my breath for a Shaq and Josh Tik Tok dance.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That, that needs to come. Maybe, maybe I, I do like a Shaq versus with him. I don't know if you ever seen his series where he was like going up against pro athletes. He comes up against a pro Tik toker.

• 41:54Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Ask the same two questions to everybody. Uh, first is what's the most important book you've ever read?

• 41:58Speaker 02

  Most important book I've ever read. Um,

• 42:06Speaker 02

  all right, this is going to sound super dumb, but there's a, there's a reason for it, right? I was a kid that hated to read when I was younger at the start. I didn't want to read any single books. So I don't know if this is the most important book I read, but it's a book I'm most grateful for because it did start my like my, my love for reading because I, I love to read, but it's, it's the diver wimpy kid. It's a funny answer. I know and probably never got one like that on this podcast for sure. Cause I bet you every motherfucker's coming in here with like the smartest book that they've ever heard of, right? And trying to act all like amazing, but it's dive and we'd be kid because I didn't like reading and that introduced me to reading in a way where I was like, it was funny. And as a like a little kid, right? Like it doesn't feel like I'm, I'm reading comic book almost.

• 42:50Speaker 02

  And then after that, I instantly went to like Percy Jackson. And then after that I started reading all the Harry Potters and like, that was like when I was probably in like third, fourth grade. So then I just started reading and reading and reading. And now I've read like so many books since I've been in LA. I don't think I've actually picked up one. Um, so I probably got to, but, uh, yeah.

• 43:09Anthony Pompliano?

  I love that. It's a great answer. All right. Second one's more fun. Aliens. Are you a believer or non believer?

• 43:15Speaker 02

  A hundred percent a believer.

• 43:16Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, why?

• 43:17Speaker 02

  Because it's, it's like there, there's just no way there can't be like, there's gotta be, it's so big. The universe is so big and it's just like, we're, we're such a small part of it. I, yeah, there's gotta be aliens. Hundred percent.

• 43:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I'm with you. All right. You could ask me one question to finish up. What, what question you got for me?

• 43:36Speaker 02

  Ooh, all right. What am I gonna ask? Let's see. Um,

• 43:44Speaker 02

  if, okay, this is a question I'm gonna ask because I actually just wanna know about it. Somebody that has never like bought in crypto before because I have not at all. Like, is there any other coins out there besides like Bitcoin that I should be interested in or start looking in?

• 44:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, here's the way I think about it is if you don't own any at all, then you should start with Bitcoin, right? And you don't need to buy a whole Bitcoin. You can just buy a part of a Bitcoin.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, like I can just put 400 bucks into there, even like a dollar.

• 44:18Anthony Pompliano?

  You put $10. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. So, so it's like you start there and then in my opinion, that's the thing that is gonna take up majority of people's attention. It's gonna take up majority of kind of the future returns. That's the thing that is like the most important. There's a whole bunch of other people you're gonna talk to that will disagree with that. They'll say there's all this other stuff, right? There's other things that will accrue value, but, but it's just like, what do you wanna focus on, right? What's your advantage? And kind of lean into that advantage? So I think that for you, it's like, look, if you own nothing, just start with Bitcoin, right? And then like you can go figure out whatever you wanna do, but like Bitcoin is kind of step one. And, and I think you wanna be able to just get started, right? Like that's the hard part. Cause it's what? You're what? 18 years old?

• 45:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, 18.

• 45:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. So like my brothers, I got four younger brothers, right? And like each one of them, they went a long time. They didn't have any, then they bought a little bit and they buy a little bit more and like, and then just slowly like you learn more about it, whatever. And like you kind of just build up your confidence level. You know, cause you're putting money in, right? So it's like, hey, I don't wanna go buy $20,000 Bitcoin and then be like, oh shit, this is stupid. So you start small and then you just build it up.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Makes sense. Okay.

• 45:27Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Like I told Griffin, I would normally ask people where we can send them to find them on the internet, but you are everywhere. Where do you want people to connect with you from like the business and investing world? If they want to reach out?

• 45:39Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, I have a LinkedIn now. So Josh Richards on LinkedIn. I like, dude, I didn't even know that was still a thing until recently. And then I was like, I was told, I was like, dude.

• 45:50Anthony Pompliano?

  Who told you? Who told you to get a LinkedIn?

• 45:52Speaker 02

  Michael. You need a LinkedIn, Josh. Everyone like, and I was like, all right, I'll get, well, I'll get a LinkedIn. And so I did. So yeah, everyone go check out the LinkedIn. If you guys want to connect, that'd be awesome.

• 46:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Michael's looking out for you guys, man.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  I know for real. Without Michael, I would not have a LinkedIn. So that's.

• 46:11Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Sounds good. We'll talk soon.

• 46:13Speaker 02

  Yep. Peace, man.