Share & Krang & Tell with Michael Cruz Kayne and Katie Nolan

How did the trans-athlete debate rear its oligarchic head in Donald Trump Jr.'s wedding? What messes up young athletes more: private equity... or being on a Kardashian reality show? And are you the maestro of your own body? Plus: non-suntans, Harambe and how to win a Poo-litzer. • Subscribe to "But Also" https://pod.link/1896895859 with Michael Cruz Kayne • Subscribe to "Casuals" https://pod.link/1788997372 with Katie Nolan Further content: • "Donald Trump Jr.'s Bahamas Wedding Was Secretly Bankrolled by Russian Oligarch Close to Putin" https://www.propublica.org/article/donald-trump-jr-wedding-bankrolled-russian-oligarch-umar-kremlev-putin (ProPublica) • "Kim Kardashian's Team Moms highlights the ridiculous excess of the US youth-sports industry" https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2026/sep/24/team-moms-baseball-kim-kardashian-paramount-youth-sports (The Guardian) • "The Pay-to-Play Childhood" https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/youth-sports-private-equity-travel-leagues.html (New York) • Previously on PTFO: The Harambe Tapes, Revealed https://pod.link/1685093486/episode/NmExNzc3ZDJhM2RlNzQ0ZThlYjJmZDgz Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Pablo Torre?

  Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre, and today, we're gonna find out what this sound is.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  No matter what happens today, Michael, you are not going to throw up. Your butt might throw up, but your face won't.

• 0:13Pablo Torre?

  Right after this.

• 0:16Speaker 02

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• 0:48Pablo Torre?

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• 1:32Pablo Torre?

  While shopping, you'll also find great perks like Dell Rewards, fast free shipping, premium support, and financing with flexible payment options. Shop the winners now at dell.com/deals. That's dell.com/deals.

• 1:57Speaker 03

  Happy birthday.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:58Speaker 03

  To you.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  Just turned the big 24.

• 2:01Pablo Torre?

  Delighted, thank you.

• 2:02Speaker 03

  Is a lie.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03Pablo Torre?

  I said, "Thank you."

• 2:04Speaker 03

  You did.

• 2:04Pablo Torre?

  We did happy birthday. And...

• 2:06Speaker 03

  Happy birthday to you. Early happy birthday to you.

• 2:08Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 2:09Speaker 03

  That's this weekend.

• 2:10Pablo Torre?

  That's right.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 2:12Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  Big fun time.

• 2:13Speaker 03

  Early happy birthday to you, Pablo Torre.

• 2:15Pablo Torre?

  I thank both of you.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  And happy birthday to you whenever your birthday is.

• 2:18Speaker 03

  January 28th. We're not close, so...

• 2:19Speaker 01

  J28.

• 2:20Speaker 03

  J28. J6.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  J6. That's your favorite day.

• 2:24Speaker 03

  Right. And then my birthday is January 28th.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  A few weeks later.

• 2:27Pablo Torre?

  You will be insurrecting your roof again.

• 2:29Speaker 03

  That's right. Yeah, I'm going up there, and I'm saying, "Where's Pelosi?" She's not, she's not there. But I'll find her.

• 2:38Pablo Torre?

  You used to do fake tans.

• 2:40Speaker 03

  Me?

• 2:40Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, didn't you?

• 2:41Speaker 03

  Mm-mm. Who the [bleep] is he talking to?

• 2:43Pablo Torre?

  I'm sorry. Let's cut that.

• 2:44Speaker 03

  No, I don't. I've never, it's, I'm afraid it's gonna look orange.

• 2:47Pablo Torre?

  Sorry, fake tanning versus tanning booth. I call both of them...

• 2:50Speaker 03

  I used to go in a tanning bed.

• 2:51Pablo Torre?

  As a Filipino-American.

• 2:53Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  My dog.

• 2:54Speaker 03

  Was that a word? Anything?

• 2:55Pablo Torre?

  All, all, all non-suntans are fake.

• 2:57Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah. When I was in high school, I was going to the tanning bed, still. That was like, you know, for prom.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  You're putting on little goggles.

• 3:04Speaker 03

  Little goggles for eye protection. A little, um, a sticker, you'd put right here, so that when you, when you got your tan, you'd peel off the sticker, and then, "Oh, look, you've got a little Playboy bunny on your..." I don't know why.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  Wait, it was a bunny?

• 3:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, you would get, you'd buy a little sticker, and you'd put it on your, somewhere on your body.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Oh, it was, it was ornamental.

• 3:25Speaker 03

  Yes, of course.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  I thought it was to tell the difference between how much darker you'd gotten.

• 3:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, it also was that.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  And we're in the, I never did a tanning bed. I don't, are you...

• 3:34Speaker 03

  There were some that are laying down.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Are you fully clothed?

• 3:36Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah, yeah. Going in for sun protection.

• 3:38Pablo Torre?

  Let's get a little more specific.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Fully naked is what I meant to ask.

• 3:41Speaker 03

  Fully naked, high school Katie. Um, in a, sometimes you'd lay down, but then the lay-down ones were weird because, why are we talking about this? The lay-down ones were weird because you'd get a weird tan line around your... You don't think about this, and I'm really sorry, but we, your second time, you realize you have to sort of

• 3:58Speaker 03

  spread 'em when you lay down? Otherwise, otherwise your butt cheeks

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Otherwise, the...

• 4:03Speaker 03

  will, there'll be a tan line.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  In your butt cheeks.

• 4:05Speaker 03

  Right. And so you sort of, and then I hated doing that. I didn't like the way that felt. So then I would, I started to do the stand-up ones, where you put your hands in the little stirrups like you're at the reverse gynecologist.

• 4:15Pablo Torre?

  You're Ronco rotisserie chickening?

• 4:16Speaker 03

  Exactly. You just said it and forget it, and then there you stand.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  I love the idea of reverse gynecologist.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. So that's what we used to do, but now I think those things are illegal. I don't think anyone's operating. I'm probably still on Long Island.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Because those are just like, just cancer machines.

• 4:30Speaker 03

  You're just cooking. Yeah. It's not, it's like UV right in your face.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  UV, UV getting cancer.

• 4:35Speaker 03

  That's right. UV 40, red, red wine. What are we gonna talk about today, Pablo?

• 4:39Pablo Torre?

  This is it, baby. This is the pod. You're already doing it.

• 4:59Pablo Torre?

  If you've ever woken up tired and sore, and let's be honest, who hasn't? This one is for you. There are few things that set you up for success like a good night's sleep. And the best way to ensure a good night's sleep is with a mattress that fits your needs. Are you a hot sleeper? A side sleeper? Do you have a partner who tosses and turns all night? Whatever your issue, Helix has a mattress designed for you, thanks to 20 different mattress models, and a handy quiz on their website to match a mattress specifically to your needs. That is why this year, I decided to upgrade my setup with the Helix Dusk Elite mattress. And it is a game changer. Since switching, you genuinely notice better sleep, fall asleep faster, fall asleep longer,

• 5:43Pablo Torre?

  and you wake up feeling way more ready for the day. So whether your issue is temperature, back pain, or motion transfer, Helix has the perfect mattress for you. Plus, they offer a 120-night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty. Rest easy with the Happy with Helix Guarantee, a risk-free, customer-first experience designed to ensure that you're completely satisfied with your new mattress. So go to helixsleep.com/ptfo for up to 27% off site-wide. This is exclusive for listeners with the code, that is helixsleep.com/ptfo for 27% off site-wide. helixsleep.com/ptfo.

• 6:27Pablo Torre?

  I actually wanted to go to the beach

• 6:31Pablo Torre?

  in a story about Donald Trump Jr.

• 6:35Speaker 03

  Oh, man.

• 6:36Pablo Torre?

  Did you guys read this one?

• 6:36Speaker 01

  DJT.

• 6:37Pablo Torre?

  Did you guys read any of this one?

• 6:38Speaker 01

  I know a little bit about it.

• 6:39Speaker 03

  I didn't check my DJT newsletter this week.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  This is, this is the wedding?

• 6:43Pablo Torre?

  This is the wedding. So ProPublica, which is a nonprofit journalistic outfit that does incredible work, they just did this thing about Susan Collins in which they got a check that exposed corruption, allegedly, I guess I gotta say, although the reporting is pretty conclusive, I would say. They've been killing it. And the story they did before that, that popped into my feed, was interesting to me on a couple of levels. One level is that involves wedding planning. The other level, we can get to. But the whole story involves a guy named Umar Kremlev.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Is it ethnically insensitive to say that sounds like a villain? If it is, cut that out.

• 7:24Pablo Torre?

  He is a Russian oligarch.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  It's the Krem. The Krem is where it got me.

• 7:28Pablo Torre?

  The Krem is a bit...

• 7:30Speaker 03

  It's a little too on the nose.

• 7:31Pablo Torre?

  A little obvious. But very easy to remember. Kremlev, Kremlin, Putin oligarch, allied guy.

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Maybe that's why it sounds familiar to me, but it does sound familiar to me. I feel as though I've run into this name before.

• 7:47Pablo Torre?

  You're gonna wanna hold that thought

• 7:48Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 7:48Pablo Torre?

  as we transport ourselves

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 7:50Pablo Torre?

  to the Caribbean.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that. Not where Katie got her tan.

• 7:55Pablo Torre?

  Very different. Very different.

• 7:57Speaker 03

  Oh, look beautiful. A thousand likes.

• 7:59Pablo Torre?

  So a big part of investigative reporting these days, and I can attest to this because you guys have experienced me attesting to this, I guess, is that you go on Instagram accounts, and you just scroll for a while.

• 8:11Speaker 03

  Sick. I do that anyway, so I'm an investigative reporter, basically.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  People are just incriminating themselves on Instagram. Is that what you're saying?

• 8:17Pablo Torre?

  They're leaving behind clues that perhaps they forget, or they assume, no one's gonna piece this all together. But it turns out that in this photograph with a bunch of likes on it from, this is an Instagram gallery posted by a friend of Don Jr.'s bride.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 8:36Pablo Torre?

  So think of the levels. We all do this, right? You're falling into clicking on bold-faced names and figuring out who's commenting, who's liking. You get eventually to a friend of Bettina Anderson, now Don Jr.'s wife. And you get to looking through the roster here. And the issue that the reporters at ProPublica faced was that they'd heard a rumor that Umar Kremlev, who sounds villainous and may well be, according to the reporting in various legitimate ways, had been in attendance at this wedding, which I just gotta stop to say, should be, just on its face, if true, a big deal.

• 9:17Speaker 03

  Big if true.

• 9:18Pablo Torre?

  Because of the whole thing of him being allied with Vladimir Putin, and this being Donald Trump Jr. But they had to find proof. And so they were scrolling, and zooming, and scrolling, and zooming.

• 9:31Speaker 03

  Enhance.

• 9:32Pablo Torre?

  And they found a bald head.

• 9:36Speaker 03

  Oh. It's, and he's not prominent. Look how stupid Don Jr.'s face is in that picture. But he's like-

• 9:42Pablo Torre?

  Let's talk about Don Jr. first. For people who can't see this photograph.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  I would say it looks like a suck-in.

• 9:49Speaker 03

  It's a suck-in of the stomach. And it also looks like he's going, "Wha- what i- what i- who is wha?" And then they took the picture. It looks like he's in the middle of saying something that's like, "Who?"

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. "I bet you don't even know how to use that thing."

• 10:02Speaker 03

  "Wha?" That's the face he's making. You know, it's the sound I'm making is the face he's making. Close your eyes. "Wha!" That's it.

• 10:09Pablo Torre?

  A friend of the bride was like, "You know what? I'm gonna make sure I look great."

• 10:13Speaker 03

  Mm.

• 10:13Pablo Torre?

  The groom, though, is gonna look like the dictionary definition of derp.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Is that Tiffany, is Tiffany flanking the bride on the other side?

• 10:20Pablo Torre?

  That's right.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  You never see Tiffany Trump just like doing anything.

• 10:22Pablo Torre?

  A Tiffany Trump in the wild is-

• 10:23Speaker 03

  I didn't know there'd be an invite even.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Good for her, question mark? I don't know.

• 10:26Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Maybe fine.

• 10:27Speaker 03

  But then in the back, you're seeing, so it's basically two rows of people. The front row with the bride, the groom, Tiff. And then the second row behind them of taller people. And then there is not really a third row, except for one, maybe two guys. And you're seeing just the top of a bald head. And that, you're saying, is a very important bald head?

• 10:50Speaker 01

  That's Umar Kremlev.

• 10:51Pablo Torre?

  That is the bald gleaming head of Umar Kremlev.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  He's in the picture in a way that you're either trying to not be in the picture or trying to be in the picture. But he's not in the picture.

• 11:03Speaker 03

  Right.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean?

• 11:04Pablo Torre?

  And I think this is a really important sort of metaphor for what happened here. Because you kind of wanna allegedly contribute hundreds of thousands of dollars to Don Jr.'s wedding weekend. But you also don't wanna be, I guess, caught unless you do wanna poke your head abut- Like, if you wanted to hide.

• 11:23Speaker 03

  You just go to the bathroom, just don't be there.

• 11:25Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  But the way that he's in this picture is kind of like, have you ever told somebody, "Hey, I'm sick and I can't come to your thing"? But then you go to a different thing? And at the different thing, they take a picture? Everybody get in the picture? You don't want people to know you're trying to not be in the picture. So you get in the picture, but just what's about to be taken, you make-

• 11:43Speaker 03

  You don't stand up for yourself. You don't go, "Hey, I don't think anyone can see me."

• 11:46Speaker 01

  Exactly. Well, it's like, if the camera can't see you, you're like, "That's what I want. I want the camera not to see me." That's what he's doing. Seems like.

• 11:52Pablo Torre?

  Oh, he was doing the "if I don't move, they can't see me."

• 11:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:55Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 11:55Speaker 03

  Treating us like a bear?

• 11:57Pablo Torre?

  Jay Park again.

• 11:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:58Pablo Torre?

  So anyhow, Don Jr.'s secret benefactor, as the Arrow helpfully points out, thanks to ProPublica, the controversy that followed, once it was reported in public, you gotta understand what happened when they went to Don Jr. and Bettina Anderson for comment. Because in a statement, Bettina Anderson stated that Kremlev did not pay for her wedding-

• 12:21Speaker 01

  I have heard this part. I love this part.

• 12:24Pablo Torre?

  What did he do instead, according to Bettina Anderson, Michael?

• 12:27Speaker 01

  I think it was that he paid for like an after-party, basically, right?

• 12:31Pablo Torre?

  He paid for the days of festivities afterwards.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  It's very much like, "We didn't get a bribe for that."

• 12:38Pablo Torre?

  Bettina claimed that those events were part of an already planned trip that initially had nothing to do with her wedding to Don Jr. And that the couple decided later to tack their wedding onto the front of the trip. As all of us have experience doing.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, so she's, and she's like, pretty upset about it. She's like, "There's never any contrition in any of this from this particular group of people."

• 13:04Pablo Torre?

  I will point out, the ceremony was on a Friday. And in fairness to Umar Kremlev and Bettina Anderson, no Russians there.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Sponsored entirely by Chick-fil-A.

• 13:16Pablo Torre?

  Allegedly. But the first dance-

• 13:19Speaker 03

  No, what? No.

• 13:20Pablo Torre?

  That was paid for by Umar Kremlev.

• 13:22Speaker 03

  No, what? Sorry, what?

• 13:24Speaker 01

  What?

• 13:24Speaker 03

  How do you have your first dance not at your wedding?

• 13:26Speaker 01

  So did, did they not have a reception?

• 13:28Speaker 03

  Did they not touch each other or dance during their wedding? Because otherwise, any dancing that happened right after getting married counts as your first-

• 13:35Speaker 01

  First dance.

• 13:36Speaker 03

  Dance.

• 13:37Pablo Torre?

  Well, these are the constitutional questions our Republic has to grapple.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  Holy shit.

• 13:39Speaker 03

  Huh.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Did ProPublica get into this, what we're talking about right now?

• 13:42Pablo Torre?

  ProPublica-

• 13:43Speaker 03

  If I know them.

• 13:44Pablo Torre?

  Very importantly noted that Bettina Anderson wore her wedding dress-

• 13:49Speaker 01

  Oh my god. Then that's, to me, that's still part of your wedding.

• 13:53Speaker 03

  Well, I also feel like if you're taking funding, which I have many questions, and this isn't the first of them, it's just the one we're running into first. If, if you're taking secret creepy funding for your maybe wedding or the things around your wedding, you're wearing the same dress? Use that money to buy yourself a bunch of different dresses?

• 14:10Speaker 01

  I have poor friends who are doing costume changes at their weddings.

• 14:13Speaker 03

  Right, that have worn two, dress for the ceremony, dress for the party.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:17Speaker 03

  And now you're-

• 14:18Pablo Torre?

  She's wearing the same dress both nights.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  The next day?

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Which, I mean, honestly, I think that's feminist. I think that's trailblazing. I think it's beautiful, but it doesn't track.

• 14:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, but if you're, if the money is coming from a weird, associated with oligarch, why would you possibly just be cost-cutting and wearing the same dress twice?

• 14:37Pablo Torre?

  Well, what did the money go towards? Well, ProPublica reports is that, per these records they reviewed, Kremlev footed the bill for hundreds of thousands of dollars of wedding expenses. But in particular, they also, per three people familiar with the event, had the money go towards renting one of the private islands where a reception was held and where guests slept.

• 14:58Speaker 03

  Sure, yeah. That'll, that'll run you up pretty quickly.

• 15:00Pablo Torre?

  He also covered other big-ticket items like the fireworks show.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:05Pablo Torre?

  Which his team helped plan.

• 15:06Speaker 03

  Which was actually just a bombing. They bombed a nearby island.

• 15:09Pablo Torre?

  Allegedly.

• 15:10Speaker 03

  Allegedly, I was just joking. It was actually just a joke. Is there a word you say after joke? Tee-hee.

• 15:15Pablo Torre?

  Jokingly.

• 15:15Speaker 03

  JK.

• 15:16Pablo Torre?

  JK. English.

• 15:17Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I love the idea, that if you're at that level of wealth, you're like, "I love private islands. That's something, there's no stigma around private islands these days. So let's do one of those." And then a lot of blowing up. "Let me get a Russian oligarch, a private island, and a bunch of stuff blowing up? And that, to me, is a wedding."

• 15:34Speaker 03

  Wedding, love. That says love forever.

• 15:36Pablo Torre?

  I do like, now that you mention it, Michael, that this administration has experienced the whole Epstein thing. And they were like, at some point afterwards, "We're gonna do, uh, rent private island for our wedding, and also, my sister and her husband, Jared Kushner, we're gonna, we're gonna buy a private island."

• 15:52Speaker 03

  We just happened upon it in our boat once. It was such a romantic little place, and then we bought it. What?

• 15:58Speaker 01

  We love it.

• 15:58Speaker 03

  What? It means a lot to us. Okay.

• 16:03Pablo Torre?

  So you might wonder what President Trump has to say about all of this. And his view-

• 16:08Speaker 03

  He wasn't there, right? He was not at the wedding.

• 16:11Pablo Torre?

  Well, I didn't see him in the photo.

• 16:13Speaker 03

  Right, me neither.

• 16:13Pablo Torre?

  Did not see him in the photo.

• 16:14Speaker 03

  In any of the rows, back or front.

• 16:16Pablo Torre?

  Which feels, I think, consistent with my understanding of the family dynamics. But last week, President Trump said that Don Jr. intended to pay Kremlev back for the wedding?

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 16:28Speaker 03

  It was a loan!

• 16:29Pablo Torre?

  Even though the gift was, per the president, quote-

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Totally allowed. That's classic, classic Trump.

• 16:36Speaker 03

  By what? Totally allowed by what? I guess is my question. What does he mean by that?

• 16:40Pablo Torre?

  Whatever is left of the norms that govern our country.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  He had never heard of it before. He's just, he does, the guy does not know one thing.

• 16:47Speaker 03

  Which isn't ideal.

• 16:49Pablo Torre?

  Eric Trump?

• 16:49Speaker 01

  Love that guy.

• 16:51Pablo Torre?

  Eric had said he had no idea who Umar Kremlev was, had never met him, all that stuff.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:55Pablo Torre?

  Which is fun. And this brings us to perhaps one very key detail about where the money was actually routed through. Because Umar Kremlev, Katie, might be ringing a bell faintly in your brain.

• 17:08Speaker 03

  Here we go.

• 17:09Pablo Torre?

  Not just because you are generally aware of the politics of our country.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  But you dated Umar Krevlev for five months.

• 17:15Speaker 03

  I knew it, I knew it, I knew it!

• 17:18Pablo Torre?

  He was a guest on Garbage Town.

• 17:20Speaker 03

  Oh, no! You'll be shocked how often this happens. Where I go, "Really? Bad guy?"

• 17:26Speaker 01

  Umar?

• 17:27Speaker 03

  Umar? Ummami, has I called him? Bad guy? No, really, what's he from? It's something, right? It's something sports.

• 17:36Pablo Torre?

  So the thing that they routed the money through was, and I wanna get this correct, an IBA-affiliated entity in Dubai. And what is the IBA, you ask?

• 17:49Speaker 01

  International.

• 17:50Pablo Torre?

  Check.

• 17:51Speaker 03

  Boxing Association!

• 17:52Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 17:53Speaker 01

  Yeah!

• 17:55Pablo Torre?

  Which happens to be a scandal-plagued sports group that has been financed by the Russian state-owned energy giant Gazprom. But also, might be familiar to you from the time everybody got mad during the Olympics about the whole alleged trans boxer thing?

• 18:09Speaker 03

  Iman Kallif.

• 18:10Pablo Torre?

  Iman Kallif.

• 18:11Speaker 03

  And they'd rather you say it, because I know you'll say it perfectly correct. But I do believe it was that they, uh, this body, the IBA-

• 18:20Pablo Torre?

  The IBA.

• 18:20Speaker 03

  Has been like, fully, uh, using not cool practices. They were like, not above board. But they insisted on saying that she was transgender. And that was not the case. And they'd been like stripped of their ability to- You say it, forget it. I'm just realizing, I don't know enough of the details.

• 18:38Pablo Torre?

  A lot of our understanding of the details is actually filtered through what the IBA wanted us to know.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:44Pablo Torre?

  Because China's Yang Liu was defeated by Iman Kallif in the, uh, gold medal match in Paris in 2024. And there was a press conference in Paris that was, this is probably the only way I can describe it, truly insane.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Was that Umar in the back?

• 19:09Pablo Torre?

  That giant Zordon from Power Rangers ass head.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  I like that he only shows up behind other people.

• 19:15Speaker 03

  He's like, you can only see half of my face.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  He's disembodied.

• 19:19Speaker 03

  I don't want to be in the press conference, but I'll be in the press conference, you know?

• 19:22Pablo Torre?

  That is the president of the IBA, Umar Kremlev, the International Boxing Association, the governing body for amateur and professional boxing, until 2023, when the IOC stripped it of its jurisdiction after a series of governance issues and judging scandals. But none of this prevented that gleaming head, which would be cleaner shaven in the photo behind Don Jr., from attending the Paris Olympics and leading this press conference in front of a background over Zoom, Michael, which I'd like you to describe for people who are not watching.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Well, there's two gentlemen in the foreground who are at the press conference. Looks like Chris Roberts and Gabriel, J. Gabriel Martelli.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  Martelli, yep.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Sure. And then on a giant screen behind them is the looming, I would say, meathead of Umar Kremlev, who is, in the background, looks to have some kind of like Christian iconography on his, on his shelves.

• 20:14Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  And I do, because I've never seen this man's body, I now am starting to wonder if it's just a head on like kind of a robotic crab that just sort of like scuttles from right to left and spouts transphobia in Russian.

• 20:27Pablo Torre?

  A transphobic Krang.

• 20:28Speaker 03

  Yes, if you will.

• 20:30Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 20:30Speaker 03

  It sort of looks like, you know, the new trend on TikTok of like, I will superimpose myself on the green screen of a video that's happening behind me? And a lot of times they don't even add any commentary. It's just like a little head like nodding along to whatever's happening in the video. That's sort of what this looks like. Like, these two guys at the actual press conference look like they're about to comment on whatever the TikTok is behind them. But no, this is a real press conference that happened.

• 20:53Pablo Torre?

  And in case you're wondering what he sounds like in English, we do have a helpful translation, thanks to Sky News from this same event.

• 21:00Speaker 04

  Today, unfortunately, we are witnessing the, the failure, the, the death of women, female boxing.

• 21:10Pablo Torre?

  That's right. It's the death of female boxing because of these two boxers that, according to the IBA, have declared to be people who have failed their gender testing.

• 21:20Speaker 03

  I thought that it came out that the gender testing that the IBA was using was completely disputed and like not sanctioned in a way.

• 21:28Pablo Torre?

  They were doing, the IBA was, doing chromosomal testing and banning anybody with XY chromosomes for competing as women. The Olympics and the IOC, this is part of the actual scientific sort of tension here, had consistently indicated that in boxing, it relies on the athlete's passport rather than any sort of genetic hormonal chromosomal test to determine gender classification. The whole point, though, I think is important to understand because what this guy is in terms of how he determines a scientific testing regimen for the genitals of female athletes is also important to understand in the context of his ongoing relationship with Vladimir Putin, who are working together to use boxing to extend Russia's soft power. And so in that presser,

• 22:14Pablo Torre?

  as everyone's trying to make sense of like, so wait, do they have a point? Is there science here? What is this? What you got was 19 straight minutes in which Umar Kremlev pontificated about the corruption of the IOC and the president of the Olympics, Thomas Bach. But the point is, all of this

• 22:34Pablo Torre?

  is sort of embroiled in, I would say, one of the most classically corrupt institutions that exists on the planet, that is using sports for ends that are familiar, I suppose, to people who are following how sports are used now in America.

• 22:48Speaker 05

  Thomas Bach is like a rat that fled a sinking ship because the International Olympic Committee was sinking back then and is still sinking.

• 23:01Speaker 05

  And the Olympic movement has its charter that stipulates all the values. And that is what they have to stand for and defend. And it is clearly stipulated there that female sports is for women, male sports is for men.

• 23:16Speaker 03

  Talk to me about this interviewer.

• 23:17Pablo Torre?

  Please paint the picture.

• 23:18Speaker 03

  Well, they are wearing a vest, and under the vest, a button-down shirt that has, only the buttons behind the vest buttons are buttons.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  So far as we know, those might not even be buttons.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  You're right, you're right. The rest of the shirt wide open. And then I can't tell because of the placement of the mic, but it does look like a big chain with some sort of a piece hanging from it.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  A statement necklace.

• 23:39Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly. And then blue tinted sunglasses.

• 23:43Pablo Torre?

  Yep, matching, matching the vest.

• 23:45Speaker 03

  Which matches the blue of the vest, white shirt, blue vest, black pants. Bottom button of the vest undone. I guess if we need all the details. And then the hair is like a long, flowing gray, salt and peppery shag.

• 23:57Pablo Torre?

  Kind of looks like if the dad from the OC was now a retired magician.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Wow, interesting. I was gonna, I was gonna say, looks like a keyboard player from a European 80s band, is what I was gonna say.

• 24:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, and those are both pretty accurate, I would say.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  Also, unfortunately, Umar does have legs. It's much less fun to find out in this shot that he has a full human body.

• 24:17Speaker 03

  And, but also wearing the same color shirt and pants.

• 24:21Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 24:21Speaker 03

  So it is like, kind of like a...

• 24:23Pablo Torre?

  Union suit?

• 24:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:24Pablo Torre?

  I like to imagine that it's a union suit.

• 24:26Speaker 03

  Right.

• 24:26Pablo Torre?

  He has like a flap for the butt.

• 24:28Speaker 03

  Sure, yeah, of course, yes, of course.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  Pooping with your pants fully on.

• 24:31Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 24:33Speaker 03

  This is great. I love this. I'm having fun.

• 24:35Pablo Torre?

  So, of course, because of the invasiveness of all of these testing procedures, we don't actually know whatever those tests were. You gotta apparently trust the word of the guy in the alleged union suit on the right, Umar Kremlev, who is again a Putin-allied oligarch. But Iman Kalf, what she says for herself is that she is a woman. She says, "I'm a woman, have always been a woman. I want to live my life. Please do not exploit me in your political agendas." But at the same time, she naturally possesses the SRY gene, which is typically but not exclusively found on the XY chromosome. And she apparently told Le Keep, the French outlet and CNN, that she has naturally high testosterone levels that are monitored and treated by a doctor. Quote, "I was born like this. Of course, I have hormonal differences,

• 25:19Pablo Torre?

  but I decreased my testosterone levels based on my doctor's recommendation." And then she goes on to deny any hormonal advantage in her wins, which gets us to a competitive advantage science debate. But this speaks to the whole thing about how castrus amenya, not trans, but intersex, and how there is this whole thing along the spectrum of genetic and hormonal differences that we can discuss scientifically. But all of this is getting labeled as you're trans and you're bad, and we're grafting the politically useful culture war onto complex scientific debates. Meanwhile, Don Jr., why are they hanging out? That was a question that was asked. He met Umar Kremlev through their good old fashioned love of hunting.

• 26:02Pablo Torre?

  And there are a lot of very clearly posed photos of Don Jr., yes, in front of all sorts of dead animals, holding his guts.

• 26:09Speaker 03

  Love that. Well, I have those framed in my home.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I send away and have them autographed.

• 26:13Speaker 03

  Yes, beautiful. And he does it, and he does it. He's so charitable.

• 26:17Pablo Torre?

  Don Jr., who spokesperson, also denied that the two men have a business relationship.

• 26:21Speaker 03

  Oh, well, then it's, then case closed.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. We don't have any relationship. He just gave me several hundred thousand dollars for my wedding weekend.

• 26:28Speaker 03

  The day after.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Not my wedding.

• 26:29Pablo Torre?

  They're just friends.

• 26:30Speaker 03

  Just buddies.

• 26:31Pablo Torre?

  Even though Don Jr. participated in an IBA panel in Istanbul about a year ago, this was months before his wedding.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  IBA huge douchebag, up top.

• 26:40Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 26:42Pablo Torre?

  At that same panel, naturally, as you might imagine, Don Jr. criticized trans women in sports. And also, the IBA said in a press release that, quote, "President Kremlev and Donald Trump Jr. made it clear, this alliance will not remain symbolic. More joint initiatives will follow."

• 26:58Speaker 03

  We're gonna kiss soon. I promise.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  That would be, honestly, that would be wonderful.

• 27:03Speaker 03

  Can I, is it clear by my body language? I am at capacity for stories where it's like, hey, pretty clear what's happening here. Now what? Like, I need there to start being some sort of, and because of this, we're now gonna start doing this. I can't take any more of this, like, seems pretty obvious, huh?

• 27:21Speaker 01

  I got bad news for you, Katie.

• 27:23Pablo Torre?

  So just to recap, though, the people who are on the side of the culture war aisle around the trans issue, talking about athletes who, according to the evidence available to us, are not trans but are being treated all the time as if they are.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  By which we mean badly.

• 27:40Pablo Torre?

  Truly insanely and badly. When you ask the question of like, why are we always talking about this stupid debate that is not urgent but is treated as if it is? In part, it's because the Kremlin wants you to.

• 27:56Speaker 03

  Fun one, Pablo. Thanks. Really cool stuff. Really, really cool.

• 28:02Speaker 01

  That was nice.

• 28:03Pablo Torre?

  I thought that was a nice story.

• 28:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  Come to Smile File.

• 28:14Pablo Torre?

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• 29:16Speaker 02

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• 29:55Pablo Torre?

  So the other story that I brought you guys today.

• 29:57Speaker 03

  What do you got?

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Serve it up. Yum, yum.

• 29:59Speaker 03

  Is it UNC? Do you think it's gonna be?

• 30:01Pablo Torre?

  Oh, man.

• 30:02Speaker 03

  Because that did...

• 30:03Pablo Torre?

  You can't even do that.

• 30:04Speaker 03

  No. Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. I shouldn't guess.

• 30:06Pablo Torre?

  But I should acknowledge that, like, Mike Lombardi, GM of North Carolina, is gone. He resigned.

• 30:11Speaker 03

  Steve Belichick out.

• 30:12Pablo Torre?

  Steve Belichick out. Lombardi back on Substack.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Oh, hell, yeah.

• 30:16Speaker 03

  And now here's my question. How did he connect his typewriter to the internet? He was... Remember that?

• 30:22Speaker 04

  So I'm just working on my to-do list, but I do it on the typewriter because it forces me to slow down. I have to think about what I want to write about, and the typewriter gives you that rhythm that you need to be able to slow your mind down and think. You're gonna make mistakes, right? And on the computer, you can delete the mistake. But sometimes the mistakes that you deleted have really powerful messages in them.

• 30:46Speaker 03

  And now he's got free and paid tiers on his Substack for the Mike Lombardi insight we're all clamoring for.

• 30:55Speaker 01

  I pay $4,000 a year to be a member of that.

• 30:58Pablo Torre?

  But speaking of parents and children and sports, as we contemplate Bill Belichick and Steve Belichick, who's gone as defensive coordinator, I do swing it back around. Well, can we talk about the fact that you're a sports dad?

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Of course. Of course we can. I'd love to. I'd love to talk about that.

• 31:13Speaker 03

  We're not playing around.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  You're talking about how expensive it is to be a sports dad? In this era?

• 31:18Pablo Torre?

  I'm talking about how, at this moment, there is a conversation, which is rightful and important, about how expensive it is and how private equity is eating all of youth sports. And at the same time, there is a new show on Paramount Plus called Team Moms: Colon Baseball.

• 31:33Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 31:34Pablo Torre?

  Starring?

• 31:35Speaker 03

  Kim Kardashian? Well, is she in it or is she just running it?

• 31:38Pablo Torre?

  She's executive producing.

• 31:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Is one of her kids playing baseball?

• 31:42Speaker 03

  I don't think.

• 31:43Pablo Torre?

  Well, not her kids, I should say. But, uh, the... Okay. So this is where I should admit how this show works.

• 31:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, what's that?

• 31:50Pablo Torre?

  I watched none of this.

• 31:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:52Pablo Torre?

  Ryan Cortez, our producer, we got him advanced copies, and he watched all of it.

• 31:58Speaker 03

  Really?

• 31:58Pablo Torre?

  Well, the first... How many episodes, Cortez?

• 32:03Pablo Torre?

  He communicates with me like on Ghost Rider, as Mike Lombardi might appreciate.

• 32:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:08Pablo Torre?

  He saw the first four.

• 32:10Speaker 03

  Damn. Okay, Cortez, I want to know how it is because... Listen, please hear me. Um, the world of reality TV and the exploitation of all the blah, blah, blah, it's all bad, it's all a nightmare. The... Everything going on in youth sports seems like a nightmare. But in a world that is this, don't we deserve a reality show where you see how nutso these parents can get when it comes to watching their kids play? It's clearly rife with drama and intrigue produced by somebody who has been a mainstay in reality TV.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  A maestra of the form.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  I believe it to be garbage, of course. I'm not saying this thing should win Emmys, but I was kind of excited to at least have a little bit of sports reality show trashiness to watch. So Cortez, is it good? Is it what I'm hoping for?

• 33:04Pablo Torre?

  What Cortez says, quote, "Show sucks, dude."

• 33:09Speaker 03

  [BLEEP]. Ah, [BLEEP], I was worried about that.

• 33:12Pablo Torre?

  It doesn't have the juice.

• 33:14Speaker 03

  It's out this week.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Well, it feels like in order for a reality show to be good, especially if it's gonna feature a lot of kids, you're going to have to traumatize them. It's sort of required to traumatize the kids to make for good television.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  And now foolishly, I thought, because it's Team Moms, I thought they would barely... I almost said barely touch the kids. I thought... I felt like they would, um...

• 33:39Speaker 01

  It's a little private island talk.

• 33:40Speaker 03

  They'd put them on an island, and they would not even touch them. Um, no, I felt like it would be mostly... It's like Dance Moms, which I guess they did show the kids on Dance Moms.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Kids are all over Dance Moms.

• 33:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they got famous from it. And now they're old, and I'm like, wow.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  But even though, even... My daughter is a huge Dance Moms fan. So she's watching Dance Moms.

• 34:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:03Speaker 01

  I guess she's stopped, but she... I used to just come home and she's like, had been watching Dance Moms.

• 34:06Speaker 03

  Because those ladies are...

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, and also because I'm a great dad. Because I'm a great dad, my daughter's at home watching 79 straight episodes of Dance Moms.

• 34:13Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  But the kids on that show are having a tough time.

• 34:17Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  And so I can only imagine that on Team Moms, the kids are also gonna be bookmarking this unknowingly

• 34:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  to check in with their therapists in 20 years.

• 34:28Speaker 03

  Good point.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  And be like, my mom did this horrible thing.

• 34:31Speaker 03

  Good point.

• 34:32Pablo Torre?

  Right. At this point, I probably should show you guys the trailer. Scottsdale is my happy place.

• 34:40Pablo Torre?

  But you definitely have parents that are insane. Because our sons love baseball. What the [BLEEP] was that?

• 34:48Pablo Torre?

  Baseball and Scottsdale go hand in hand.

• 34:50Speaker 06

  Legendary Prep Academy is a high-performance baseball academy.

• 34:55Speaker 06

  He's going to MLB, for sure. I have high confidence. I'm not gonna kill his dream. We are here for the love of the game.

• 35:03Speaker 06

  At LPA, games are intense, and the parents can also be very intense. I love everybody. Tell [BLEEP] with me.

• 35:09Speaker 03

  You don't even know what's about to come. This boy was telling everyone that I was on OnlyFans. Wow. They call her nipple.

• 35:19Speaker 03

  We're not an easy group to come into. I don't want to be the hot mom at LPA. I just want to be the mom. I don't think that Trish and Nina can be friends. I'm loud and I can be obnoxious. Take it away! I saw a kid that bullied my child, and I called him a little [BLEEP]. Hey!

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Okay, now that, I'm fine with.

• 35:36Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  I'm good with that.

• 35:37Speaker 03

  With a little Von Dutch.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Someone starts beating up on your kid, and all rules are off. Do whatever you want. I did like... Did the one mom say, "I don't want to be the hot mom"? Is that what she said?

• 35:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 35:48Speaker 03

  Did you take issue with the fact that she was pretty hot?

• 35:51Speaker 01

  It just seems very funny to be like, "I do not want people thinking of me as the mom with, like, a perfect body and like great teeth."

• 35:56Speaker 03

  These just happened to me. I had this... I had no... This was not in the plans, not in the cards. I just happened upon my lip flip.

• 36:02Speaker 01

  On the internet, call me hot mom. I swear. I will be furious.

• 36:06Speaker 03

  Are they calling me that?

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Are they calling... Is that what people are saying?

• 36:08Speaker 03

  Show me. Show me people are saying... Also, it's just, it's MLB. It's not the MLB. You're not going to the Major League Baseball, okay? So if you're gonna be a baseball mom, it's MLB. Sorry.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Sorry.

• 36:19Speaker 03

  Sorry.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  No, that's gonna be a nightmare for those boys. Those boys are gonna be permanently messed up by the show, for sure.

• 36:25Speaker 03

  They already seem a little...

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Sure, sure, sure, sure.

• 36:28Speaker 03

  A little bit messed up by them being their parents in the first place.

• 36:31Pablo Torre?

  According to Ryan Cortez, the only drama on the show, really, is that one of the boy's moms teaches all of them Pilates, and a boy in the group tells the group that Pilates mom has an OnlyFans that he watches all the time.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  Ooh, why would you say...

• 36:48Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

• 36:49Speaker 03

  How old is the boy?

• 36:51Pablo Torre?

  13 and 14.

• 36:52Speaker 03

  Ah! Why? You can't... Isn't... I'm sorry, I'm an old lady.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Every part of that is so wrong.

• 36:59Speaker 03

  Isn't that age restricted? Isn't OnlyFans age restricted?

• 37:02Speaker 01

  I'm sure there's a way to do whatever.

• 37:04Pablo Torre?

  We should say the mom denies being on OnlyFans.

• 37:05Speaker 03

  Right, and it's... And just like the other one denies being hot mom.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Are they putting... Are they saying that I'm on OnlyFans and putting my handle on there and making it easy to subscribe to my OnlyFans? They better not do that. They better not talk about the deals I'm running on OnlyFans.

• 37:19Speaker 03

  They better not talk about how new content drops every Thursday.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  I swear to God, if they talk about how I'm doing Feed Fridays, I will be furious. Edit that out. Keep it in.

• 37:27Speaker 03

  Wait. It's... We're cooked, right? As a society, it's just done?

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 37:32Speaker 03

  It's cooked, it's done, so we can just enjoy the madness, right?

• 37:36Speaker 01

  One of those women is the future president of the United States.

• 37:40Speaker 03

  And I'm with her.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  And I'm with her.

• 37:41Speaker 03

  And I'm with her.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  That's beautiful. I think that's beautiful.

• 37:45Pablo Torre?

  I imagine that your experience as a sports dad is not quite like this.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  It is not... It's not at all like that. But my son played soccer on like a travel team or whatever you call it. We paid money, and it's expensive.

• 37:59Pablo Torre?

  What did Truman's soccer team cost?

• 38:02Speaker 01

  A few thousand bucks a season. I mean, a hefty amount of money.

• 38:06Speaker 03

  Soccer, which is always... It's the whole point of soccer. The reason it's so globally popular is that the barrier to entry is low. Ball and some semblance of a net is all you need. Obviously, as you have more resources, you can go with the shin guards and all the... But it's... All you really need is a ball, a bunch of people, and a goal.

• 38:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, in New York City, like, you need a permit to get to the field because there's not that much space. It's a lot... You need someone to organize the other teams for you to play against. You need uniforms, all this stuff. It's quite expensive. And I'll tell you what, almost every aspect of that experience was basically good. We were with a league at first that we really didn't like, and then we switched to this other league. Shout out Tri-Bro.

• 38:50Speaker 03

  Shout out Tri-Bro.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  Loved it. Eventually, he had to stop. Now he plays on his school soccer team, undefeated.

• 38:54Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  Shout out Clinton Hawks.

• 38:56Pablo Torre?

  That's a former PTFO intern.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  What's that? That's right, former PTFO intern Truman Cain, undefeated, starting defense for the Clinton Hawks. Let's go, boys.

• 39:05Speaker 03

  Truman, who's been dragged to a bunch of stuff I do, I think. I've seen him at stuff and gone, was that... Do you hate that? Do you hate being here?

• 39:12Speaker 01

  But yeah, I mean, we basically had a good experience, but it is crazy expensive. And so when, like, my daughter did gymnastics, also crazy expensive. And now that she has sort of aged out of gymnastics or like, decided basically that she's not gonna pursue it... Now she wants to pursue volleyball. And when she was like, you know, I'm done with gymnastics. Carrie, my wife and I are both like, oh, too, too bad. Oh, too bad.

• 39:37Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Too bad. Yeah, exactly. And then she's like, but I'm thinking about doing. And we're like, please say drawing. Please say drawing. Volleyball are both like, yay.

• 39:51Speaker 03

  And so how expensive is that?

• 39:52Speaker 01

  I don't even, I don't even know, but she, she, she's, she made the school volleyball team, which is amazing.

• 39:56Pablo Torre?

  And congrats to her.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Snap, snap, snaps.

• 40:00Speaker 03

  Good job, Leela.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  So we're gonna, I'm going to watch the girls varsity volleyball right after this.

• 40:03Speaker 03

  Oh, so am I, but unrelated.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  You're just a fan.

• 40:06Speaker 03

  Just a big fan.

• 40:07Speaker 01

  And then she's gonna play on like an outside team that is gonna cost us thousands of dollars. And the games are gonna be all over God's creation. And it's amazing. It's amazing and it's so fun, but it's also like, it's, it's crazy. The, the cost is crazy.

• 40:20Pablo Torre?

  The way I actually compare it, and I only realized now that we did this certainly in a way that allows me to perhaps take credit for this segue. But I've always compared it to like, every kid activity that you pay for, you have the wedding reception sort of unlimited budget expectation.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:38Pablo Torre?

  Whatever it is, it's the most special thing.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:42Pablo Torre?

  And so we get preyed upon. And private equity, by the way, is, is doing exactly that.

• 40:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's also that feeling of like, yeah, I guess if my child wants to participate in this, we gotta like scrabble that money together.

• 40:55Speaker 03

  For you guys, you can make it work. Whatever your kids say, you go, we'll make that work. But I don't know that every family in America is experiencing that same.

• 41:04Speaker 01

  And there are kids on these teams who are like, I don't know if scholarship is the right word, but kids who.

• 41:09Speaker 03

  They're like funded by.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, who like.

• 41:11Pablo Torre?

  Umar Kremleff.

• 41:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's in the back of the team picture, just the top of his head.

• 41:18Pablo Torre?

  But this is, this is what the Aspen Institute and Project Play reported. This was in 2024, so you can imagine how it might have increased since then, which is that youth sports is generating more than $40 billion a year, which was 46% increase over 2019. And now the reason why KKR and a PE firm known as Brand Velocity Group.

• 41:39Speaker 03

  Fast brands.

• 41:41Pablo Torre?

  That's right.

• 41:41Speaker 03

  Zoom.

• 41:44Pablo Torre?

  Youth sports are about as good a return as you can get on your investment.

• 41:50Speaker 03

  Hello, that should be illegal. You should not be able to make money off of children's sports. The money should go directly towards the acquiring of said permits or any shared equipment that's needed. You shouldn't be able to profit off of kids playing sport. Am I nuts?

• 42:08Pablo Torre?

  Well, what they're doing also is they're making everything, again, a matter of subscriptions and fees. So in some of these leagues, in order to actually get the footage that you would have gotten on your phone, they're now saying you can't take that footage on your phone. You gotta pay us for the in-house like video camera feed. And so now you're subscribing to another streaming service that is your kids playing sports.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  It's just like one of these late stage capitalism, every single, we're gonna suck every dollar out of every person until it all belongs to one guy or gal. And that's beautiful.

• 42:41Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 42:43Pablo Torre?

  I should point out here, now that Ryan Cortez has reminded me of this.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  What a useful guy.

• 42:49Pablo Torre?

  Cortez reminded me, speaking of what is and is not allowed, that Truman was here when we did the episode in which we did all the state by state fetishes.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  I remember that. That was one of the times where I went, hey, Truman, was that tough for you? Was that not what you wanted to do with your Thursday?

• 43:06Speaker 01

  Between that and my daughter watching nonstop dance Moms, I think a case can be made for, for me to not be the best dad.

• 43:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Not be the best. I am the best, but a case could be made that I'm not.

• 43:18Speaker 03

  And you've got the mug that says so.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  I do, I have a mug that says that, that I bought myself.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, because someone had to do it.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz my kids hate me.

• 43:25Speaker 03

  Can I ask a question of the group?

• 43:28Pablo Torre?

  Of course.

• 43:29Speaker 03

  Where are you guys finding the will to keep living?

• 43:34Speaker 03

  Genuinely, genuinely, the more I hear about the way we are going as a country, as a society, just as humans, the fact that I can't record at a, at my, if I had a child, at my theoretical child's game because a private equity funded group films and I have to pay to subscribe to that, that's broken. That is a fundamentally broken part of society. So how do we carry on? I, it's every, it's very demoralizing to me. I have no faith in us as humans that we're going in a direction I'm cool with.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it is, it's permeating. And I wonder with these things, if it was always that way, or if there was a team and then private equity vampires in and turned something that was probably okay into something terrible.

• 44:25Pablo Torre?

  Vertically integrated.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  My bad.

• 44:27Pablo Torre?

  The business that has been established is not especially innovative. It is, what if we could do all the things that you see in the rest of our economy to parents? Because they want to pay for their kids so bad that we cannot actually break the bond of them as customer, that perhaps we would be worried about more if they could opt out of giving a shit about their kids.

• 44:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then it becomes like, you know, within a certain social strata and above, stratum and above, you, in order for your kid to participate in these social things, you have to do this.

• 45:05Pablo Torre?

  Yes, you have to.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Like if your kid wants to play soccer, this is how you play. This is the only way to play, besides in your school.

• 45:12Pablo Torre?

  So New York Magazine did this cover story about it. I want to quote from a passage there, which is, quote, "You go to a tournament that is owned by the same company that owns the team, that then says you have to book a hotel block that's owned by the team through a platform also owned by the team. They have rules about taking your own video because they want to sell you their media package, and you have to pay to park because they own that too." This according to a former club lacrosse coach in New Jersey who has three children on travel teams. He continues, "Before you know it, you're paying a lot of money for the privilege of your kid playing a team from one town over, several states away from where you all live." The travel circuit of like, why do we have to go to now? A destination wedding of a tournament.

• 45:50Speaker 03

  In that article, I think they also talked about the, about Europe, about like sending the kids over to play a tournament thing in Europe. And you're like, these aren't even the kids that, cuz these conversations have been happening for a while about sports in America getting expensive for kids. But a lot of times it was like, well, if your kid is in this league that's for the elite exceptional talent, and they wanna get exposed to the scouts and the, and the, you know, the people that'll get them into the pros, this is what they, but a lot of these are just kids that aren't very good, but they wanna play. And why do they have to go to Europe for thousands of dollars to lose to a bunch of European, like it's, it's all of the teams, not just the elite athletes. Now it's just anybody who wants to play sports.

• 46:35Pablo Torre?

  To quote Pilates mom from Team Moms on Paramount Plus.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  Prethese OnlyFans mom, question mark.

• 46:44Pablo Torre?

  "What is the likelihood of one of these boys signing an MLB contract? I think it's 0.03%. It's not likely." End quote.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  She's probably right, though.

• 46:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  Secret mathematician Pilates mom.

• 46:57Speaker 03

  That's cool.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  Statistician.

• 46:58Speaker 03

  Well, she's gotta run the numbers on her Pilates class.

• 47:02Pablo Torre?

  She's also vertically integrated.

• 47:04Speaker 03

  That's right. And that could mean a number of things.

• 47:07Pablo Torre?

  Allegedly.

• 47:07Speaker 03

  Right, right. She's horizontally integrated as well.

• 47:19Speaker 03

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• 47:57Speaker 02

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• 48:39Speaker 02

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• 49:17Pablo Torre?

  We have been talking about photography and wildlife, and what to do when everything feels like [BLEEP]. And Katie, one thing I hope will make you feel better is this thing that's been sitting on the desk next to me this whole time.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 49:34Pablo Torre?

  Which is a gift.

• 49:35Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 49:35Pablo Torre?

  I'd like you.

• 49:36Speaker 03

  Beautiful.

• 49:37Pablo Torre?

  I'd like you to explain to the audience what this is.

• 49:40Speaker 03

  Now, this is a photo from Harambe's friend Jeff T. McCurry of Harambe, who you'll remember, we learned, ate straight from his own butt poop. He ate poop from his butt. He took the poop out of his butt and he put it into his mouth.

• 49:57Pablo Torre?

  Also vertically integrated.

• 49:59Speaker 03

  Harambe taking his poop out of his butt and then,

• 50:04Speaker 03

  like, soft-serve, like, leaving some of it in his hand, eating it.

• 50:08Pablo Torre?

  And so, Michael, could you read what the inscription is?

• 50:11Speaker 01

  I would love to. "To Katie Nolan."

• 50:12Speaker 03

  That's me.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  "He's eating it straight from the tap. Harambe's friend, Jeff T. McCurry."

• 50:20Speaker 03

  That's right. And that, it's beautiful.

• 50:22Pablo Torre?

  That is a quote of Katie.

• 50:23Speaker 03

  I did say that.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  He looks so thoughtful.

• 50:25Speaker 03

  Doesn't he? He's such a handsome, poor guy.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  He's doing, um, like, uh, what a piece of work is man. See what I'm talking about? Hamlet, anybody?

• 50:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, definitely.

• 50:37Speaker 03

  Totally, totally, totally.

• 50:38Pablo Torre?

  This reminds me, though, now that I see Michael hold this, that that is a photo of a man who is in touch with his intestines, held by a man who is also in touch with his intestines.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  I hate vomiting. I mean, I hate it.

• 50:54Speaker 06

  It is sort of the worst.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  No, no people love it, but people can tolerate it. Like, I can't, if I feel like, this is, this is gross. I'm saying something gross. If I feel like I'm gonna vomit, I am able to, instead of having the relief that would come from vomiting, I'm able to force that to come out of my butt. I can make, I can make my vomit, uh, I can make my vomit diarrhea is a power that I have.

• 51:22Speaker 06

  You redirect it?

• 51:23Speaker 01

  The worst superhero alive.

• 51:26Speaker 06

  That is like, in, like, in the X-Men movies, that's they get, like, like, the later you get, you get all these, like, way of this how mutants, and it's like, my powers, I have, like, porcupine spikes or whatever. This is, what's your power?

• 51:38Speaker 01

  Vomor, though, here comes vomorhea. What is it? Honestly, you could probably guess.

• 51:42Speaker 03

  I like that Asher has himself in the background of your shot, so technically, Asher's in every shot of the podcast.

• 51:47Pablo Torre?

  That is from, but also with Michael and Asher.

• 51:49Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Thank you so much. I mean, guys, look, if that's the clip that does it for us, then, then God bless. But it's true.

• 51:55Pablo Torre?

  I'm here to fact-check this.

• 51:55Speaker 03

  I don't believe you. I don't believe you at all.

• 51:58Pablo Torre?

  None of us here believe you.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  When you have the feeling that you're going, like, do you know, you know before you're gonna throw up, right? You know, like, probably?

• 52:04Speaker 03

  Sometimes moments before, but, but a lot of times.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  But I think if I know, like, say, the vibe is, I'm probably 30 minutes away from throwing up through the power

• 52:16Pablo Torre?

  Your precog.

• 52:16Speaker 01

  Of meditation. I can redirect, I'm telling you, I can make the, I can.

• 52:21Speaker 03

  I'm gonna need to see it.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  I can make the vomit go out my butt.

• 52:23Speaker 03

  I gotta see it. Now, let me ask, can it be?

• 52:25Speaker 01

  Now, I'm on two podcasts talking about it. Is this what you wanted?

• 52:27Speaker 03

  Yes. Can it, this is better than everything we've talked about, first of all. This is a power, this is human power to change your circumstance.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  I can run my, yeah, okay.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  If it's vomit from drinking too much.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  Never had that.

• 52:40Speaker 03

  What?

• 52:41Speaker 01

  Don't drink.

• 52:41Speaker 03

  First of all.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  Don't drink.

• 52:43Speaker 03

  You've never, oh.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Oh, but one time I did. One time on my 25th birthday, which was a year ago. A 25th birthday, my friends and coworkers tried to get me to do 25 shots. And I threw up on that, on that day I threw up.

• 52:56Pablo Torre?

  As you should have.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  I probably had one shot.

• 52:58Speaker 03

  You literally had to. But you, so you couldn't, in that situation, when it's, like, happening to you, not because of something gastrointestinal.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  Did I try to do 25?

• 53:06Pablo Torre?

  Did you try to diarrhea it out?

• 53:09Speaker 01

  No, but I didn't know I had the power at that time. I recently became a.

• 53:12Pablo Torre?

  How did you discover the power?

• 53:14Speaker 03

  Good question, Pablo, finding out.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  You know the feeling where it's like, oh, I'm, I'm about to throw up. Imminently, I'm going to throw up.

• 53:20Speaker 03

  He keeps saying that, but like, kind of, I guess. I felt nauseous, but.

• 53:24Pablo Torre?

  Like, you're doing, you're doing, like, uh, intestinal kegels?

• 53:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, basically.

• 53:29Pablo Torre?

  Just like clenching?

• 53:30Speaker 01

  I'm, like, what you do, you, you recognize that you are the maestro of your own body.

• 53:35Speaker 03

  No.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  And you just tell yourself.

• 53:38Speaker 03

  Downstairs, please.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  You're not gonna throw up.

• 53:40Speaker 03

  Downstairs, please.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  You are not going to throw up.

• 53:41Speaker 03

  Don't come up here, go down.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  You are not going, no matter what happens today, Michael, you are not going to throw up. Your butt might throw up, but your face won't.

• 53:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  And then you do it.

• 53:52Speaker 03

  And I've, I've given myself that speech, and it ended with me puking in my purse in the back of an Uber on my way to work. Where I was like, you're not, it's not gonna happen. You're okay, get in the Uber. And then in the Uber, I went like,

• 54:02Speaker 03

  quietly, into my purse, so that the Uber driver wouldn't go, "Yo." I just went.

• 54:11Speaker 01

  You're doing really good puke sounds.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  Thanks.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  Into your sleeve.

• 54:14Speaker 03

  I'm sure someone will make them into something else sounds. Point is, um, how, I'll.

• 54:20Speaker 01

  You're kind of doing Harambe sounds now.

• 54:22Speaker 03

  I just am, how, how are you possibly, how was it? And it's never solid poop. You're never turning the need to puke into, like, a solid poop.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Well, what are you, crazy? How could you possibly do that?

• 54:34Speaker 03

  And is it, or when you poop it out, is it like puke? Or it's just?

• 54:38Speaker 01

  I mean, it's diarrhea, I would say, is puke of the butt.

• 54:40Pablo Torre?

  Are you sure you're just not simply vomiting and having diarrhea?

• 54:43Speaker 01

  I'm not vomiting. I'm telling you, when it, when I feel like I'm going to vomit.

• 54:46Pablo Torre?

  No, I got that part. But what I'm wondering is, what if you are also vomiting and having diarrhea?

• 54:50Speaker 01

  I've just never had that happen.

• 54:51Pablo Torre?

  And you're just lying about this.

• 54:51Speaker 03

  And you just closed one door. It's not that you turned it into poop. It's that you would have been doing both and you've somehow been.

• 54:57Pablo Torre?

  Michael has hot dog eating contest rules. He's like, if my mouth doesn't open, doesn't mean I, the food counts.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  I'm not saying I've, like, it's not alchemy, right? I haven't, like, turned.

• 55:05Speaker 03

  That is what you're saying, actually. You are saying it's alchemy.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  What I'm saying is I can get what would be puke to go out the, I can get it, I can redirect.

• 55:12Speaker 03

  And what we're saying is that you, we think it would be coming out both ends, but you've just decided to close one door.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  Okay, fine, well, how's that different from, fine?

• 55:21Speaker 03

  It's incredibly different, first of all.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  What I'm saying is, it's all coming out the back. I'm, I'm telling everybody that this is the exit.

• 55:27Pablo Torre?

  Open that Union suit flap.

• 55:29Speaker 01

  That's right. I'm going Umar Kremlevana.

• 55:31Speaker 03

  I mean, my dog has the reverse, which is that she can turn her diarrhea into vomit, and the way she does that is by eating it.

• 55:39Speaker 03

  You ever had that happen?

• 55:40Pablo Torre?

  I think we may have vertically integrated too much.

• 55:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:43Speaker 01

  And that's how you get a Pulitzer.

• 55:45Speaker 03

  What did we find out today?

• 55:47Pablo Torre?

  That's what we found out.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  That's what we found out.

• 55:49Pablo Torre?

  We found out all that.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  We found it out. This is the first time, I think, I've ever been on this podcast where a producer in my ear said, "We got it."

• 55:55Speaker 03

  I think that's it.

• 55:57Speaker 01

  We got it.

• 56:06Pablo Torre?

  Pablo Torre Finds Out is produced by Walter Averoma, Maxwell Carney, Ryan Cortez, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lohman, Rob McCray, Laura Newcomb, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, and Chris Tumminello. Studio engineering by RG Systems. Sound design by Andrew Bersick. Digital strategy by Bailey Carlin and Andrew Northern. Theme song, as always, by John Bravo. And we'll talk to you next time.