Pod Insights The Tucker Carlson Show Vadym Novynskyi: Zelensky’s Mission to End Christianity in Ukraine & Why America Is Still Funding It About this episode Do Americans have any idea that Zelensky has declared war on Christianity in Ukraine? Vadym Novynskyi knows. He spent three terms in the Ukrainian parliament but now risks prison for defending his church.
(00:00) Zelensky’s Attempt to Ban Christianity in Ukraine
(04:31) Why Is the Rest of the World Ignoring the Christian Persecution in Ukraine?
(08:20) Is Novynskyi Worried He’ll Be Killed for Speaking Out?
(12:59) Why Is Speaker Mike Johnson and Congress Still Funding the Persecution of Christians?
(20:26) Why Did Zelensky Push to Join NATO Knowing Putin Would Invade?
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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0:30 Tucker Carlson? Thank you for joining us. I think very few Americans understand the degree to which the Ukrainian government under Zelensky has persecuted the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Can you give us an overview of what your government has done to your church?
0:53 Speaker 02 Unfortunately, our government, led by Zelensky, has opened up a campaign of persecution and oppression against the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, the largest church in Ukraine, the largest denomination of Christians in Ukraine. Before the war, there were 12,000 parishes and 7 million believers in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. And despite the fact that it's the largest denomination and that 95% to 97% voted for Zelensky as the president of peace, he is doing this to our church. He's persecuting and oppressing our church.
1:35 Speaker 02 Over the past 10 years, persecution has intensified. And currently, right now, it is leading to terrible consequences. As you know, in parliament, a law has been passed which actually, in fact, bans the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.
1:51 Speaker 02 So our archbishops are subjected to persecution. There are completely false criminal cases opened up against them. Our parishioners beaten, our church is taken away. So Satanism is flourishing in Ukraine.
2:09 Speaker 02 So some metropolitans are in prison, some are under house arrest. Some examples are Metropolitan Arseny, who's currently in prison, who's the head of the Svetegor's Collaborative. He's in prison under completely false accusations. Metropolitan Firosi, Metropolitan Luka, Metropolitan Anthony, they're all under house arrest. Another big example is Metropolitan Longinus, who actually has an orphanage in his church, which has more than 600 disabled children. He's a man of love, and he's still being persecuted, all for being faithful to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.
2:47 Speaker 03 He's a man of love, and he's still being persecuted, all for being faithful to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.
2:55 Speaker 02 Every day, churches and temples are seized by soldiers with machine guns, who come in, who throw out priests, beat believers, children, old people, women, countless priests, countless attempts of Chernovitsky, which is a temple that's been attempted to be taken over. So every day it is happening, all over Ukraine.
3:14 Speaker 03 At the moment, there are attempts to seize the Fedorov's church in Chernovtsia. Unstoppable attempts. And, of course, this is not...
3:24 Speaker 02 One cannot help but feel deeply dissatisfied with these events, and one cannot help but fear that our churches may continue to experience this persecution from the government.
3:35 Speaker 03 How can I say?
3:38 Speaker 03 The risk is that our church might go further with this persecution from the state.
3:47 Tucker Carlson? Why do you suppose Zelensky is doing this? What is his motive?
3:56 Speaker 03 We need to understand the atmosphere that is now prevailing in our country. It is basically inciting hatred, is the basis of politics. The hatred that is based on lies, deceit. Our church tells the truth. Our church exposes sin, and our church basically is, right now, it's a favorable time for our church. Everyone can show their loyalty and faith despite all the persecution, despite all of the oppression.
4:29 Speaker 02 We pray for the authorities. We pray for Zelensky, that at one point, they may come to their senses and stop. We truly hope that Zelensky may fulfill his promise and restore religious peace, because 95% to 97% voted for Zelensky, voted for him as a peace president, and for him to stop the religious hatred going on in our country.
4:51 Speaker 03 It's been a very grateful time for us. And of course, despite all the complaints, all the protests, all the violations, all the violations that are happening around our Church.
5:01 Tucker Carlson? Why do you think the world has ignored this attack on Christianity in Ukraine?
5:09 Speaker 02 I can tell you that a year ago, it was impossible to say a word of truth in the western press, even the American press, about what is happening to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Ukraine. There was a whole block on the truth of what is happening in religious life in Ukraine. And the first person to break this wall of silence was you. Who invited Robert Amsterdam, who is the official representative of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, who began speaking the truth, and you broadcast this truth. And for this, thank you. And a big thank you to J.D. Vance,
5:49 Speaker 02 who, while he was still a congressman, raised his voice in support of our Church. He was the only politician in the West who defended our Church. At that time, it was extremely important for us. But apart from you, no other serious publication would publish and would show what kind of attacks are taking place on the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in Ukraine. Because Zelensky was given a vote of confidence, and in the eyes of the western public, he became a leader of the nation. And anything that he was doing was accepted without question.
6:30 Speaker 03 He was the leader of his nation, and everything he did was accepted without any doubt.
6:40 Tucker Carlson? But Zelensky is not an elected president at this point. He's gone past his term and there has been no election. So he has, from what I can tell, no authority to do this. By what authority is he doing this?
7:03 Speaker 02 Well, it's the authority that he usurped for himself. Basically, in accordance with the Constitution, there's an elected term of five years, and the president cannot be elected for more than that. This decision was made in May 2014, but everyone forgot about it. Now the Constitutional Court is not working. It was destroyed by Zelensky. So there's no way to confirm or affirm. There's no way to basically legitimize his role.
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10:38 Tucker Carlson? So you're describing a dictatorship. Are you worried about your safety after saying something like this?
10:49 Speaker 02 Just appearing on your show, I already have an understanding that I will be further persecuted by the Zelensky government authorities.
11:03 Speaker 02 As you know, I'm under sanctions. I was personally sanctioned by Zelensky. He signed three decrees imposing sanctions on me under various pretexts. I have various criminal investigations going on against me for false and groundless accusations.
11:21 Speaker 02 And after this interview, and after I say what I think is happening in our country, I am sure that there will be more persecution against me, but I'm not afraid.
11:38 Speaker 02 It's actually illegal to impose sanctions against a Ukrainian citizen. There's only one instance where you can, which is when it's been proven that he was financing terrorist activities.
11:51 Speaker 02 So right now, sanctions are our president's favorite weapon. He likes to hit whoever he can with them: any opponents, critics, businessmen, religious leaders. So based on religious principles, I've been sanctioned based on religious principles for my support of the church for the last 20 years. I've been put in a list with other religious individuals as the senior deacon of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. I'm number one on that list.
12:27 Speaker 02 The judicial branch is not functioning and is currently paralyzed. There are no laws at present. As the president said, the constitution has been put on pause. So these are indicators that currently there is a dictatorship.
12:49 Speaker 02 A citizen's rights and freedoms are restricted. There is no freedom of speech. It is understandable that during wartime, a person can't fully have freedom of speech, but the president and his administration have fully monopolized the right to freedom of speech. Rights are restricted, courts are not working. All of these are indications of dictatorship.
13:15 Speaker 02 People are subjected to forced mobilization, where men are taken off the street, put in buses, and then sent to the front lines.
13:25 Speaker 02 And the Ukrainian society, Ukrainian people, are living in an atmosphere of fear.
13:35 Speaker 02 So because if you express criticism of Zelensky, then you have the secret police come in the next day, and you will be subjected to persecution.
13:50 Speaker 02 Of course, in wartime, it is essential for society to be united. Instead, he divides them based on various criteria: so religion, history, culture, heroes, language. Society is divided. It's a very unfair policy of division when it should be unification.
14:18 Tucker Carlson? The United States is paying for all of this to happen.
14:24 Tucker Carlson? The Speaker of the House of the United States Congress is a man who describes himself as a Christian.
14:31 Tucker Carlson? And he's been paying for this. His name is Speaker Johnson. I'm wondering if there's something that you would like to say to him and other Christians in the US Congress about the fact the money they send is being used to extinguish the largest Christian denomination. What would you say to them?
14:52 Speaker 02 I would like to wish that the assistance and the funds that are provided keep being provided to the Ukrainian people. Because right now, the Ukrainians are struggling for survival. They're struggling for the survival of their families. You have to understand that the Ukrainian authorities, they live in parallel realities. The Ukrainian people are thinking of how to survive, how to feed their families, how to be happy. And it's a completely different reality to the Ukrainian authorities.
15:34 Speaker 02 The authorities live a different life. So they profit from war. And the national idea of the Ukrainian elite is to steal money and to spend it abroad. It would be great if the money that was sent was spent optimally and to help the people. And for this, ultimately, we need to keep an eye on the way that the money is being spent and the way it is used, so that it's actually used for the benefit of the people, rather than for the Ukrainian elite.
16:13 Speaker 02 Also, it would be good if the money that comes in, if we don't spend it to support those who are seizing our churches. The only canonical church in Ukraine, the largest denomination, the thousand-year-old church that is the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.
16:30 Tucker Carlson? We have seen reports that Zelensky and his family have become rich during the war. Do you believe those reports are true?
16:40 Speaker 02 So we have a saying, "There is no smoke without fire." And if some information comes out, then it means there's a possibility of it happening. However, I can't say yes, or I can't say no. I can't confirm or deny. There has to be irrefutable evidence for us to be able to confirm it.
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19:24 Tucker Carlson? We have also received reports that the Ukrainian government has sold some number of NATO weapons. Have you heard that and do you believe it's true?
19:36 Speaker 03 Нет, я этого еще не...
19:36 Speaker 02 I have no information on this. I can't confirm or refute this.
19:40 Speaker 03 Нужно быть очень глубоко продвинутым в этот вопрос и быть...
19:44 Speaker 02 You have to be very immersed in this issue and to be in Ukraine to understand whether that is true or false.
19:49 Speaker 03 Чтобы понимать, насколько это верно, насколько это нет.
19:53 Tucker Carlson? Yes. How long have you known Zelensky?
20:01 Speaker 03 Зеленский, думаю, многие...
20:02 Speaker 02 Well, I think a lot of people have known Zelensky well before he became president, when he was one of the best or one of the most important people in the entertainment industry.
20:10 Speaker 03 Лучших или самых важных представители шоу-бизнеса в Украине.
20:15 Speaker 02 He played serious roles in TV shows and he was a very important entertainer in Ukraine.
20:20 Speaker 03 Был очень известен, все украинцы.
20:23 Speaker 02 I never personally encountered him, but we became known to each other after he became president.
20:30 Tucker Carlson? He ran as the peace candidate, you said. What happened? How did that change?
20:39 Speaker 03 Он получил на выборах...
20:41 Speaker 02 So in the elections, he received 73% of the votes. 73% of people who voted for him wanted peace. He actually said in his inauguration speech, "For the sake of peace, I'm ready to sacrifice my fame, my popularity, my rating, and my position of my post if I have to, if it will help bring peace." He also said the following, "That I've been making Ukrainians smile, and for the next five years, I want to make sure that they don't cry. So instead, right now, what do you see? Instead of smiles on their faces, there are tears on their faces." And instead of giving up his position, he's turning into a dictator. And there's no peace in the country. There's war under him. War came to Ukraine during his presidency. And did he do everything to avoid it?
21:25 Speaker 02 That's a question that many people have begun asking. Obviously not voicing it, but in secret, because they could face persecution. Many are publicly asking it. Unfortunately, that is the case.
21:36 Speaker 03 Отказаться от своей должности, но принести мир на нашу землю, он практически превращается в диктатора.
21:45 Tucker Carlson? When Zelensky said in the winter of 2022 that he wanted Ukraine to join NATO, he knew that Russia would come across the border if Ukraine joined NATO. But he said it anyway. Why do you think he did that?
22:09 Speaker 03 Декларация, что является базой для украинской государственности?
22:12 Speaker 02 So what is the base for Ukrainian sovereignty? It's actually the Declaration of Sovereignty, where it says that Ukraine will have a non-aligned status. So it will not be part of a bloc.
22:23 Speaker 03 Будет иметь неблоковый статус и никогда не будет присоединяться ни к каким-то военным альянцам. Но ставание этой декларации принялось конституцией Украины. Но когда 2018...
22:34 Speaker 02 But in 2018, during the election campaign, Poroshenko, the former president, he made changes to the constitution regarding Ukraine's desire to join NATO. This contradicted the Basic Declaration, when in the beginning, Ukraine made the declaration to be sovereign and independent.
22:49 Speaker 03 Противоречило той базовой декларации, которая принималась при начале государства суверенитета и независимости Украины.
23:00 Speaker 02 Zelensky knew perfectly well that constantly mentioning that we wanted to be members of NATO would annoy our northern neighbor. And he knew that eventually there could be an invasion and war. When I was deputy in the parliament, I said, "If anything were to happen like this, then Russia would go all the way." But nevertheless, he kept mentioning it and made it an option.
23:20 Speaker 03 Я в одном из своих интервью, когда еще я был народным депутатом, говорил о том, что в случае, если мы будем настаивать на этом, то Россия пойдет до конца. Она не остановится. И, конечно, может быть...
23:35 Speaker 02 And it would have been possible to avoid war had Ukraine implemented the obligations that it took on by the Minsk agreements. In accordance with which Donetsk and Lugansk received a certain autonomous status within Ukraine.
23:51 Speaker 02 But despite the adoption of the Minsk Agreement in 2015, we kept stretching out its actual implementation for seven years
24:00 Speaker 02 and actively build an anti-Russia in Ukraine. I'm in no way justifying Russia and the Russian authorities that they did this act of aggression upon Ukraine. The issue was different. The Ukrainian people entrusted their power to Zelensky, that he will not allow a war into the country and that he will provide peace.
24:21 Speaker 02 The task of authorities is to ensure safe conditions in the country and good conditions for development and growth and to ensure security of its borders.
24:34 Speaker 02 And to try to live in peace or at least be neutral with all of its neighbors.
24:43 Speaker 02 Unfortunately, it was Parashanka who began this and then Zelensky continued because he's his worst copy. But they got into arguments with all of their neighbors, so Russia, Belarus, Hungary, Slovenia, had a whole lot of arguments with Poland.
25:02 Tucker Carlson? Was Zelensky prepared for the Russian invasion? Did he know it was coming?
25:09 Speaker 02 So as you know, I'm here for the following reason: that a week ago, Zelensky accused me of serious charges that during the beginning of the invasion, by phone, I tried to force him to surrender, to give up territory, to basically betray his homeland in accordance with Ukrainian law. And I could say that until the very end, Zelensky denied that aggression from Russia was possible, despite the fact that he had irrefutable evidence from Western counterparts, from intelligence within Ukraine. However, he didn't do anything to prevent it, because obviously it's impossible to prepare for a war in such a short time.
25:51 Speaker 02 But it's also difficult to fight against such a stronger enemy, so some preventative measures should have been taken.
26:10 Speaker 02 On the 23rd of February, a day before the full-scale invasions, Zelensky gathered together at his Oval Table in the office of the President, all of the representatives of the business.
26:24 Speaker 02 And there he tried to persuade everyone that there's going to be no invasion, no war, and that them as government authorities are going to do everything possible for this war not to happen.
26:36 Speaker 02 And when I was given a chance to speak, I said that we had listened to reports from the security block, the security forces, and that if there's at least one chance in a thousand for us to do something to prevent this war, then we should definitely do it, because the information we heard was alarming. And we must do everything possible to prevent this from happening, because Ukraine needs peace. People need peace.
27:05 Speaker 02 And the next day, at 5:00 a.m., the invasion began. The war started. I was in Kiev. My whole family was in Kiev. By then, it all started.
27:15 Tucker Carlson? How many Ukrainians have been killed in this war, do you believe?
27:20 Speaker 02 No one knows the exact figure. The only one that knows the exact figure is God. He knows exactly how many.
27:30 Speaker 02 Unfortunately, no one knows the exact figure. There are official numbers that have been voiced personally by Zelensky. There are numbers that have been calculated in the Western press by Western war analysts. There are numbers that are going around to the Ukrainian people, but no one knows the exact number. I've heard it could be tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, but no one knows the exact number. But the number, whatever it is, is going on too much.
28:03 Tucker Carlson? Are you concerned that, given how many Ukrainians have died and have left, that foreigners will move into your country, that you will get huge migration into Ukraine?
28:20 Speaker 03 В первую очередь я обеспокоен тем, это захватит все мое внимание и желание...
28:25 Speaker 02 To be honest, right now, I'm more concerned about peace in Ukraine and an end to this awful war and to the end of the loss of life. We honestly pray for this, for peace to reach our country. And I'd like to just thank President Trump for having the political will and the strong desire to end this war, because five months ago, it was impossible to say that there would be negotiations between Russia and Ukraine. And right now, they're going on, and new plans for negotiations are emerging. And all of this is thanks to Trump's strong will. Basically, with Trump, the US has begun to export peace to Ukraine.
28:57 Speaker 03 ...конец этой войны. Еще пять месяцев назад невозможно было даже говорить о том, что могут пройти переговоры между Россией и Украиной. Они сегодня проходят.
29:09 Speaker 02 And as for migrants, I would just like for all Ukrainians to return home. And after we've reached peace through joint efforts to rebuild Ukraine together and make it back into the peaceful, hard-working, flourishing country that it was 10 years ago...
29:23 Speaker 03 мира, мы бы смогли все вместе восстанавливать Украину и постараться вернуть...
29:32 Tucker Carlson? Can you reach a peace settlement with Zelensky running your government? Is that possible?
29:40 Speaker 03 Это будет очень тяжело сделать.
29:42 Speaker 02 It will be very difficult to achieve, even with the strong will and influence of President Trump. Because on the path to peace, unfortunately, the biggest obstacle right now is Zelensky himself, as well as his close circle.
29:54 Speaker 03 Большое препятствие — это сам Владимир Зеленский и его ближайшее окружение.
30:00 Speaker 02 Well, because when peace comes, there's a high probability that Zelensky will lose his power. Many will start asking questions when peace comes, like: "Why was the war allowed to happen? Why wasn't the Istanbul Agreement signed?" Because we all know the essence of what was agreed to in Istanbul. And had it been agreed to and had it been signed, there would not have been hundreds of thousands of lives lost. There wouldn't have been a threat to the sovereignty of Ukraine. There would not have been such destruction. And there would not have been a loss of territory, which might happen now.
30:47 Speaker 02 If we trace the history of the signings of various agreements, starting from the Minsk Agreement, and then to the Istanbul Agreement, unfortunately with every agreement, the terms and conditions of the agreements deteriorated for Ukraine. They were worse and worse. They became more unfavorable. And unfortunately, if there is another agreement, which I hope there is, but unfortunately, the conditions will be even more unfavorable. But a lot of lives have been lost in the process, and a lot of blood has spilled.
31:17 Tucker Carlson? My last question, and thank you for taking the time to do this interview, is what can Christians around the world do to help you? Churches around the world, believers around the world, do to help you as you try to prevent Zelensky from extinguishing Christianity in Ukraine?
31:38 Speaker 02 In this process of persecution against the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, unfortunately, a large part has been taken by the ecumenical patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople. Unfortunately, they're doing this together. And the fact that not once has he raised his voice and supported the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, despite all of its persecution, proves that he is actually involved in all of this. But we do receive a lot of support. We receive a lot of support from the Jerusalem Church, the Georgia Church, the Serbian Church and their patriarchs. And we receive a lot of brotherly love and support and a lot of prayer, because that is our main strength, prayer. And the church will not be defeated. A true canonical church will not be defeated. The communists cannot defeat us in the 20th century, because Christ is the church.
32:23 Speaker 02 The head of the church is Christ. And consequences will be bad for those who oppose him. And we will pass these trials and we will be purified. And we are very grateful to you and for everyone doing anything for our church.
32:45 Tucker Carlson? Amen. Nicely put. And many are praying for you. Thank you for telling us about the darkness in Ukraine. I appreciate it.
32:54 Speaker 02 Thank you.
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