#2243 - Julian Lennon

Julian Lennon is a Grammy-nominated singer/songwriter, photographer, author, and filmmaker. His new fine art photography coffee table book, “Life’s Fragile Moments," is available now, as is the Spike Stent remix of his 1998 song "I Should Have Known." www.julianlennon.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:14Speaker 00

  I go to see this dermatologist.

• 0:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you have a little skin.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, a little excision here because it had been bothering me a bit. And a couple of years ago, I had a bit of a cancer scare on my head. Because I have, I have a birthmark here that we don't really see. And there was a mole there. And I kept, as my hair got a little thinner, I would, I would use a comb and it caught it one time. And I opened it up. And so I, I, I, I kind of kept picking at it when it became a scab. And I kept picking over the course of like six months. And then I went to see this dermatologist for the first time in LA. And I said, yeah, I've got a little bit of a, you know, I've been trying not to scratch it now.

• 1:05Speaker 00

  But I'm a bit worried about it. It's been like six months of me being an idiot. Because it just was really irritable. And so she's, you know, cut it out and sent it off. And I was at a pretty serious meeting with a whole bunch of people. And she called me up at the end of it and said, listen, I'm sorry to tell you this, but it's, it's cancerous. You know, we've got to cut it out. We've got to get it. And, yeah, I just went completely numb at that point and freaked out. Because I just thought, what does this mean in its, in the bigger picture?

• 1:45Speaker 00

  And I, you know, I had a lot of friends that have passed from cancer, various kinds, over the years. And so it really did freak me out. Anyway, I got the all clear. It was cleaned out. And so just anything that just looks or feels a little odd. And there was something I was, I'd been scratching here a bit. And something here as well. So she just did a little cutting. And no doubt I'll hear from her in a few days, once she gets the results.

• 2:16Joe Rogan?

  That's scary because it was in a spot that you don't check. You know, it's covered in hair. You don't know what's going on back there.

• 2:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it was because of the birthmark. And, you know, I just, I just kept, and the thinning, thinner hair. And so I just kept. You know, brushing it with a comb and it caught it and then it scabbed and then I it became itchy and so I stepped kept scratching it, you know, pulling pulling it off like a kid, you know, as you do, as you just anyway, I'm I'm I'm happy to be here.

• 2:49Joe Rogan?

  I'm happy you're here too.

• 2:50Speaker 00

  One piece for the moment, you know.

• 2:52Joe Rogan?

  I got one of those comprehensive blood panel screens for cancer recently and then, you know, you wait a while for the results and you're like, geez, like, what if I'm one of those people?

• 3:04Speaker 00

  I, yeah, I, I.

• 3:05Joe Rogan?

  I didn't have anything, but.

• 3:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, I have the I have, you know, I go for a proper checkup like twice a year, you know, just on every front, just to make sure I'm gonna be around, because I like living.

• 3:19Joe Rogan?

  That's good.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  I want to be around for a long time.

• 3:21Joe Rogan?

  That's good.

• 3:22Speaker 00

  I know, for sure.

• 3:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a weird thing because, you know, how old are you now?

• 3:29Speaker 00

  Sixty one.

• 3:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'm fifty seven and we're getting up there, fella.

• 3:34Speaker 00

  I don't like to think about it.

• 3:35Joe Rogan?

  I don't think about it too much.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  I'm completely in denial. Absolutely. I refuse, you know, because I, yeah, I just remember seeing my uncles, you know, my on my mother's side, what they were like in their fifties alone, you know, and they'd be sitting there with a big belly in front of the TV with, you know, a couple of packets of cigarettes and drinking tea or beer and watching the TV all day and that was their life in their fifties and sixties until he had a heart attack and died and I went, no, I'm not doing that one and I've just always been, not that I'm a health freak in any way, shape or form, but I certainly, you know, my regime is try to eat as healthy as you

• 4:20Speaker 00

  can and do a bit of power walking a couple of times a week.

• 4:24Joe Rogan?

  That's good.

• 4:25Speaker 00

  And that does the trick for me.

• 4:26Joe Rogan?

  Nothing wrong with that.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  No.

• 4:28Joe Rogan?

  Walking is one of the best forms of exercise.

• 4:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:30Joe Rogan?

  If you can get it in every day, you'll be much healthier than if you don't.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 4:35Joe Rogan?

  It's not hard to do.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  No, it's not.

• 4:37Joe Rogan?

  Listen to a book on tape, go for a stroll.

• 4:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 4:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's great for the body.

• 4:41Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 4:41Joe Rogan?

  You don't have to fucking kill yourself.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  No, and I I've also in my time dealt with a fair amount of depression as well and anxiety, I get pretty anxious still, even, you know, coming here today, I was a bit.

• 4:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. So I went for a nice little power walk around the whatever the lake is down there. The one where the bats are.

• 5:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:06Speaker 00

  I had no idea.

• 5:07Joe Rogan?

  Have you seen them come out?

• 5:08Speaker 00

  No.

• 5:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's cool.

• 5:10Speaker 00

  No idea. I'd never even heard of it.

• 5:11Joe Rogan?

  It's really cool.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  The biggest bat population in the world.

• 5:16Joe Rogan?

  Is that true?

• 5:16Speaker 00

  That's what they're saying.

• 5:17Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if that's true. I think the biggest bat population in the world is in Africa.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  I would say so. Or, or the Amazon, but.

• 5:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think it's a really large population, though, and it's cool to see. They come out. That's what it looks like when they come out.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, they, they, they claim there's, there's signage down there.

• 5:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really?

• 5:36Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, that says it's the biggest bat population in the world.

• 5:39Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, maybe it's a specific kind of bat. I don't know.

• 5:42Speaker 00

  Is, so is this, is this, is this at sunset that this happens?

• 5:47Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yeah, right at nighttime. It's really cool. It's very fun to watch. And you hear them. If you go onto the bridge, like if you walk on, you hear.

• 5:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was there today. I didn't hear that.

• 5:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you can hear me there.

• 5:59Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 6:00Joe Rogan?

  They're just chilling. It's weird, but they're responsible for keeping the mosquito population down.

• 6:06Speaker 00

  Is that one of them?

• 6:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they do a great job, those little suckers.

• 6:09Speaker 00

  Fantastic.

• 6:10Joe Rogan?

  They care, take care of the mosquitoes.

• 6:11Speaker 00

  Mosquitoes, yeah. I don't, what purpose do they have, really?

• 6:16Joe Rogan?

  Um, spreading horrible diseases and sucking your blood.

• 6:20Speaker 00

  That, and aubergines. I don't understand aubergines either.

• 6:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, they tried to develop a genetically modified mosquito that was gonna attack the other mosquitoes.

• 6:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:31Joe Rogan?

  You know, they, but that's horror movie type shit, you know, like I hear about that. I'm like, okay. And what happens then? Like, whenever you start monkeying around with nature in that regard.

• 6:42Speaker 00

  And so nothing came of it then?

• 6:44Joe Rogan?

  I don't know what's been done with that. I don't know. It's like, these people are doing these things and it can affect all of us. And you, you know, just read about it on the internet. And if it wasn't for the internet, you wouldn't even know they were doing it. This episode is presented by Searchlight Pictures Wild Horse 9. Shortly before Chile's 1973 coup, two CIA agents, played by John Malkovich and Sam Rockwell, find their mission on Easter Island spiraling into a web of conspiracies, unexpected alliances, and chaos. Wild Horse 9, only in theaters Friday. Get tickets now.

• 7:24Joe Rogan?

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• 8:07Speaker 02

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• 8:29Joe Rogan?

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• 9:08Joe Rogan?

  Are you sure this is going to be okay in the long run? Like, what's the potential chances for mutations? Like, what happens if they carry a very unique disease that, you know, it's...

• 9:20Speaker 00

  Well, you know, the scary thing is we have no idea what half of these people are up to.

• 9:26Joe Rogan?

  No, we don't.

• 9:27Speaker 00

  COVID being an example.

• 9:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, perfect example. Did you see what happened in Australia yesterday? There was a laboratory that lost track of, oh, I put it on Twitter, lost track of like a bunch of different, like, really serious diseases.

• 9:41Speaker 00

  How does that happen?

• 9:44Joe Rogan?

  Someone left the door open?

• 9:47Joe Rogan?

  I went once, me and my friend Duncan, uh, we went once to the, uh, the lab in Galveston, Texas. They have, uh, Center for Disease Control, I believe, is the organization has this enormous bio lab down in Galveston where they take care of, like, some of the most dangerous and deadly viruses in the world. So they have like this incredible filtration system and everybody's wearing space suits and they're walking, and we're in there going, "What are you guys doing?" Hundreds of vials of deadly viruses have gone missing from a laboratory and scientists warn they could be weaponized. So what are a hundred vials of Hendavirus, two vials of Hantavirus,

• 10:30Joe Rogan?

  223 vials of Lysavirus, all of which are extremely deadly for humans.

• 10:36Speaker 00

  And of, of course, I love it when the media says, you know, something along the lines of the end of that statement that could be weaponized. So that's great. Now the freaks are gonna go and try and find that stuff.

• 10:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, it's, you know, we got into this mess in the first place because, and this has now been confirmed, that they were working on these viruses in this laboratory and it got released. And that these viruses had been created through gain-of-function research. So these goofballs are down there, working on viruses, making them more infectious to humans. And you would say, "Well, why are they doing that?" Well, surely they're doing that so they can study them and they can cure them. Make sure that we don't get sick.

• 11:20Speaker 00

  Is that the logic?

• 11:21Joe Rogan?

  That's the logic, but they didn't have a cure for it.

• 11:24Speaker 03

  Lysavirus is rabies?

• 11:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, great. Lysavirus is responsible for rabies, which is arguably the deadliest encephalotic virus known, uh, disease known. The prototype rabies, Lysavirus, thought to be able to infect all terrestrial mammals. Yay!

• 11:45Speaker 00

  Yay, God.

• 11:46Joe Rogan?

  What a good thing to just have laying around. I mean, that's like the opening of 28 Days Later, right?

• 11:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, no.

• 11:53Joe Rogan?

  There's a new one. Have you seen the trailer for the new one?

• 11:56Speaker 00

  There's a new one?

• 11:57Joe Rogan?

  The 28 Years Later.

• 11:58Speaker 00

  No, come on.

• 11:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. Cillian Murphy's back. Let's go.

• 12:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm, I'm in. Count me in.

• 12:05Joe Rogan?

  That's the greatest, oh, here it is. It's the greatest zombie movie of all time, for sure.

• 12:11Speaker 04

  Wait, sit here. Sit. Auntie, what's going on? Do it, sit still, keep quiet, and do not move from this spot.

• 12:34Speaker 05

  Seven, six, eleven, five, nine and twenty miles today, four, eleven, seventeen, thirty-two the day before, boot, boot, boot, boot, moving up and down again. There's no discharge in the war. Don't, don't, don't. It's all shot on iPhone. Look at what's in front of you. Really? That's what they said. I mean, not with their lenses, but... Boot, boot, moving up and down again. Men, men, men, men, men go mad with watching 'em. There's no discharge in the war.

• 13:17Speaker 05

  If your eyes drop, they will get the top of you. Boot, boot, boot, boot, moving up and down again. There's no discharge in the war.

• 13:37Joe Rogan?

  I was gonna stop there. Okay.

• 13:39Speaker 00

  Jeez. I woke up relatively calm and peaceful this morning.

• 13:44Joe Rogan?

  Little bit of pre-podcast anxiety. And now you're worried about the end of the world. Welcome to the show.

• 13:49Speaker 00

  Thank you very much. Thank you. I didn't know what to expect, but now I...

• 13:53Joe Rogan?

  I'm terrified of these eggheads messing around with all these things. I really am, because it seems like what we know now is that there wasn't a ton of oversight. They shipped, they sort of went with the... So the NIH funds the Eco Health Alliance, and the Eco Health Alliance funds the Wuhan Lab. The Wuhan Lab, which has had many safety violations, including, like, I think a year before the leak. And then it gets out. And then they all lie. And then they all trade emails back and forth where they're talking about the lie. And they go in front of Congress, and they lie. And now they're talking about giving Fauci a mass pardon, a preemptive pardon, so he doesn't get charged when the Trump...

• 14:35Speaker 00

  That's crazy.

• 14:36Joe Rogan?

  It's a whole thing is... And then there's another one today where the Biden administration is keeping the emergency classification of COVID to 2029 so that they can avoid being attacked for the Emergency Use Authorization Act. It's so creepy stuff because there's money, it's all money, right? There's money involved in this. There's these people that are working on viruses, well, the way to get funding is you have to work on viruses. So whether or not, I don't think they're evil people, but I think these people, this is what they studied in college, this is what they went to university for, and now they're studying it, and what's the best way to study it?

• 15:18Joe Rogan?

  You actually have to have funding, you have to have a lab, and you start doing it, and so who do you do it for? Well, you do it for the Defense Department, like, because they want to work on weaponizing viruses. And this is a real thing.

• 15:28Speaker 00

  That's one of the scariest things.

• 15:31Joe Rogan?

  It's fucking terrifying. I did a television show once where we talked to this guy from Russia and from former Soviet Union where he was talking about how they had literally like giant vats of anthrax. They had enough anthrax to literally kill like every fucking human being in America and that they were working on viruses and all these deadly diseases.

• 15:53Speaker 00

  To be honest with you, I'm quite surprised we're still here.

• 15:56Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty shocking.

• 15:58Speaker 00

  With what's already happened and what the potentials are, it's staggering.

• 16:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, if you think about all the things that we've gone through where we just barely missed a total disaster, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and then there was the one time where there was a, they thought that the United States had launched a missile at Russia and they were very close to responding, it was just a glitch, and one guy, just one clear-headed person, decided not to launch.

• 16:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:26Joe Rogan?

  And this is in the 60s.

• 16:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 16:28Joe Rogan?

  This is all, it's so terrifying.

• 16:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're so close all the time, really. That's why.

• 16:36Speaker 00

  One should just try and have a happy life wherever you can, that's for sure.

• 16:41Joe Rogan?

  The problem with that is if you don't speak up the, and if no one reacted to any of this COVID-19 stuff.

• 16:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:50Joe Rogan?

  No one reacted to the Orwellian censorship complex that was established to try to silence people who are critical of the narrative that they were pushing.

• 17:00Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 17:01Joe Rogan?

  We would all be fucked. Like, you kind of have to pay attention now, unfortunately. I don't want to.

• 17:06Speaker 00

  No, agreed.

• 17:07Joe Rogan?

  I want to just have fun and live my life and be with my family and my friends.

• 17:11Speaker 00

  No, of course.

• 17:12Joe Rogan?

  Enjoy myself. We all do, but.

• 17:14Speaker 00

  No, it's, it's good to be aware. No question about that. And.

• 17:19Joe Rogan?

  But is that, there's also this part of me that goes, yeah, but this is what, this is what the universe provides you with. The universe provides you with this very unique balance of good and evil. And the evil exists to appreciate the good and to motivate the good.

• 17:34Speaker 00

  No question.

• 17:35Joe Rogan?

  And there's always going to be both. It just seems like there's always going to, until we reach some enlightenment, till Jesus comes back, till the aliens land.

• 17:43Speaker 00

  Well, it's that thing called balance, isn't it?

• 17:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 17:46Speaker 00

  Trying to do the balancing act as best as you can.

• 17:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What do you do? Like, what's your balancing routine? Like, if you feel like you're getting a little sideways?

• 17:58Speaker 00

  Um, I hate to say it, but, but it's back to getting out into the fresh air and walking.

• 18:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:04Speaker 00

  I, I mean, that really does, or, or even photography, you know, just being, actually, my number one go-to is, I, I'm a biker. I've been on motorcycles since I was like in my early teens. So to blow the, to really blow the cobwebs out, it's kind of getting on the bike and just riding somewhere I've never been before. I'll just look at a map and go, that looks interesting, and I just go. And.

• 18:34Joe Rogan?

  That looks like so fun if I was bulletproof and made out of metal.

• 18:39Speaker 00

  Have you?

• 18:40Joe Rogan?

  I'm scared of motorcycles.

• 18:41Speaker 00

  Really? Well, it's the other people, as they always say.

• 18:44Joe Rogan?

  That's exactly right.

• 18:45Speaker 00

  You know.

• 18:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:46Speaker 00

  But you have to, I, I believe you have to have a heightened awareness to, to be a biker and still.

• 18:53Joe Rogan?

  Most certainly. Do you have a loud bike so people could hear it at least?

• 18:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've had a few loud ones in, in my day.

• 18:59Joe Rogan?

  Like a Harley?

• 19:00Speaker 00

  I, I used to have Harley. I, I, at the moment, I ride a Triumph, a couple of Triumphs.

• 19:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, nice.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  One that looks like an old school, but actually works. And then I thought I was never going to be one of those guys that ever kind of rode one of those 50s, no, the sort of adventure bikes, you know?

• 19:21Joe Rogan?

  With like the saddles with the boxes and?

• 19:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, kind of. Yeah, but the relative half fairing, but, but um, I, I, when I go for a ride and these random rides, you know, I can be gone up in the mountains for, with no signal for um, three and a half, four hours, you know, and that there has been an occasion or several in, in the past where without a signal, the bike has had problems. And it gets pretty scary when you're in the wilderness and you've got no backup plan. I, I had an oil leak with a, with a, with a brand new bike and no signal and I

• 20:04Speaker 00

  literally rolling down any hill I could just to survive, make it to whatever little village I could find in the middle of nowhere.

• 20:13Joe Rogan?

  Where were you?

• 20:14Speaker 00

  I was in, in, in France.

• 20:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 20:17Speaker 00

  So I, I tend to go up in the wilds back there and um, so I, I, I decided also my backside after three and a half hours on one of the older style bikes.

• 20:33Speaker 00

  It's pretty painful. So I just happened to look at one of the Triumph Adventure bikes.

• 20:40Joe Rogan?

  What do they look like? Can you tell us? Is that it?

• 20:42Speaker 00

  So that's, that's what my old bike looks like. That's, that's actually my old bike with my old friend riding it. And that's the one where your ass kills after a couple of hours. But, so, yeah, those are the kind of views I get. Those are in the middle of nowhere.

• 20:59Joe Rogan?

  Are these your photographs?

• 21:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. These are just quickies on my phone.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  Just the places I find myself in, in the middle of nowhere. I mean, stunning, stunning, stunning places. And they're not far from, from where I am on the coast.

• 21:18Joe Rogan?

  That's beautiful.

• 21:19Speaker 00

  And they're kind of on the border with Italy.

• 21:23Speaker 00

  So it's pretty unique stuff.

• 21:25Joe Rogan?

  Where do you live?

• 21:26Speaker 00

  I, I officially live in Monaco.

• 21:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow. I was just there. I was just there last summer.

• 21:32Speaker 00

  Oh, shit. Okay, well.

• 21:34Joe Rogan?

  It's really beautiful.

• 21:35Speaker 00

  It's, it's not a bad place to be.

• 21:37Joe Rogan?

  But a weird spot.

• 21:38Speaker 00

  It's a weird spot.

• 21:38Joe Rogan?

  What's going on here? Why is everybody stacked up in apartments right here?

• 21:42Speaker 00

  It's very transient. You know, people come and go for whatever reason that they do. And, I mean, most people like myself, you know, we have, we have a kind of summer house getaway. So you can go breathe on the weekends.

• 21:58Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it kind of a tax shelter-y place too?

• 22:00Speaker 00

  Oh, very much so. Yeah, yeah, no.

• 22:02Joe Rogan?

  Like a lot of real rich folks go there to hoard their cash.

• 22:05Speaker 00

  But there's a few new places around the world that offer that kind of possibility.

• 22:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh, really? Like, where else?

• 22:14Speaker 00

  Well, Dubai's offering certain incentives now. Portugal, certain incentives.

• 22:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Dubai has like no income tax, right?

• 22:23Speaker 00

  I've never been there personally.

• 22:24Joe Rogan?

  Is that the fact? Is that a fact?

• 22:26Speaker 00

  I think it is. I'm not a hundred percent sure, but.

• 22:29Joe Rogan?

  I have a friend who just moved to Dubai. He's American and he's a filmmaker. And he says, I feel so safe.

• 22:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, that, well, that's one element of it.

• 22:38Joe Rogan?

  There's no crime.

• 22:38Speaker 00

  As long as you're not doing anything bad.

• 22:40Joe Rogan?

  He said you could leave a Rolex on the ground and someone will pick it up and turn it to the police.

• 22:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm, I'm sure.

• 22:45Joe Rogan?

  UAE does not levy income tax on individuals. However, it levies a 5% value-added tax on the purchase of goods. And that's pretty reasonable.

• 22:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:53Joe Rogan?

  Levied at each stage of the supply chain and ultimately borne to the end consumer.

• 22:57Speaker 00

  Wow. Fairly reasonable. Yeah, yeah. So although I I it's never inspired me so far anyway. No. Well, there's a lot of like wild restrictions over there. Oh, yeah. And I and I I like a bit of character with where I am, you know. Yeah. And I I, you know, one of the one of the pleasures I find is, number one, I'm a biker, so I get to ride around a lot. Um, I'm not really a beach guy. Uh, after twenty minutes, I start twitching. I need to do something. It's true. Um, but I'm also a foodie as well. Hmm. So, you know, Monaco's half an hour away from Italy. And there's a there's actually a big crossover uh in the restaurants between French and Italian food. Oh, wow.

• 23:42Speaker 00

  And then you have places like um the island of Corsica, which is French now. It's been through the mill a few times. It was English at one point. It was Italian at one point. It's uh, I think a few other nations too. Um, but I I and I could see it from where I was. You can actually see the outline of Corsica from the south of France and from Monaco in certain locations. And I'd seen it for twenty five, thirty years and had never been. And a couple of years ago, I decided with a friend to hop in. I've got a little mini convertible and that's my little run around.

• 24:23Speaker 00

  Um, and decided to get the ferry, which is about six hours across and drive, you know, with no bookings, no nothing, and just see if there was a hotel available. And and drove around the whole island in ten days. And it was the mu- one of the most magical places I've ever, ever been to. It's like ten countries on one island. The the the scenery is mind blowing. Um, and the the south of it is very much like the Caribbean, crystal clear turquoise blues wa- blue waters. But the food, again, is this combination of it, the best of Italian and the best of French. Wow. And just the freshest of the freshest of the fresh.

• 25:05Speaker 00

  Um, and I've only been down there about two or three times because this was only a few years ago. And I couldn't believe that it's, and here's the other thing. Okay, the ferry's six hours. But you can get um on what they call a vomit comet. It's like a very short flight, you know. Hmm.

• 25:24Speaker 00

  Uh, you could be there in the south of Koska from from Nice airport in forty five minutes. And it's a different world. It's an entirely stunning, gorgeous, different world with, again, scenery unlike I've ever seen before.

• 25:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I know.

• 25:43Speaker 00

  And and for for such a small island, which you can, yeah.

• 25:48Joe Rogan?

  Is it here? Oh, wow.

• 25:49Speaker 00

  I I mean, it's just insanely, insanely beautiful. And that's Bonifacio, yeah. They, you know, they're renowned for being,

• 26:02Speaker 00

  they can be a bit of a, you know, tough nuts.

• 26:05Joe Rogan?

  In what way?

• 26:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, if they don't like you, if you piss them off, excuse my French, they'll blow up your house. I mean, there was a report a couple of years ago that this guy's house, that he was causing some trouble and they didn't want him around. And they blew up blew up his house. He set it on fire and blew it up. I'm serious.

• 26:25Joe Rogan?

  Well, I guess if you live in a small place like that, that's really amazing. You're probably very protective of someone coming along and ruining.

• 26:32Speaker 00

  They're exactly like that. I I mean, if you don't.

• 26:34Joe Rogan?

  I get that.

• 26:35Speaker 00

  If you don't respect them.

• 26:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I get that.

• 26:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, no.

• 26:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, whenever people say like, if you go to France, they're very rude.

• 26:43Speaker 00

  I get it.

• 26:44Joe Rogan?

  I've gone to France. I didn't think they were rude, you know, but I get how there's some Americans like hopping right off the cruise ship. That are just fat and stupid.

• 26:54Speaker 00

  There's just, you know, I think if you're not prepared to be warm and friendly uh uh on the approach and and treat them with the the respect that they deserve in their own country.

• 27:06Joe Rogan?

  Treat like you're a visitor.

• 27:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, you know, don't order them around. Don't tell them what to do and and, you know, even though, you know, they think it's quite funny that you try and speak their language. I mean. I can understand French pretty well and Italian and a few other things, but you know, God help me if I try and speak it because they'll just, they don't laugh at you, but they'll speak back to you in English, you know.

• 27:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 27:33Speaker 00

  It's um.

• 27:34Joe Rogan?

  That's the wonderful thing about English is that.

• 27:36Speaker 00

  But at least make the effort is what I'm saying.

• 27:38Joe Rogan?

  Sure. Show them that you're trying.

• 27:41Speaker 00

  You're trying, yeah.

• 27:42Joe Rogan?

  Say mercy.

• 27:43Speaker 00

  Kind of got, yeah.

• 27:44Joe Rogan?

  Say that.

• 27:44Speaker 00

  Just thank you alone, you know.

• 27:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:48Speaker 00

  Don't just order them around, which I've seen many people do and it's, it's a bit shocking.

• 27:53Joe Rogan?

  Grazie mille.

• 27:54Speaker 00

  See.

• 27:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you gotta be able to say a few things and just let them know that you're, you're trying.

• 27:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 28:01Joe Rogan?

  I go to, I try to go to Italy every year. We, me and my family, we, we go there every year and I love it. It's just so.

• 28:09Speaker 00

  Where do you, where do you head?

• 28:11Joe Rogan?

  My favorite place is Ravello.

• 28:13Speaker 00

  Where is that? I don't know.

• 28:14Joe Rogan?

  Ravello's on the Amalfi Coast.

• 28:15Speaker 00

  Okay, okay.

• 28:16Joe Rogan?

  It's just so, so beautiful. But I've liked Rome too. It's a little touristy. The problem with Rome is it's overcrowded and there's a lot of touristy shit going on.

• 28:26Speaker 00

  Rome is not my favorite. Um, the reason why it's so appealing to me is because my, actually my first stepfather was Italian.

• 28:36Speaker 00

  Uh, Roberto Bassanini.

• 28:38Joe Rogan?

  That's pretty Italian.

• 28:39Speaker 00

  Oh, he was very Italian and he was the black sheep of the family. He was the naughty boy and he was more like an older brother to me. Uh, married to mum, after dad, after John, and his family were involved in kind of hotels and restaurants from also London in the heyday of Italian restaurants. It was like the seventies.

• 29:05Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 29:06Speaker 00

  Um, and, and so they had a few small hotels in different areas and uh, so whenever I wasn't at school in London at that, you know, or England at that time, we'd take these little trips to, you know, Cortina or above Milan, there's a little town called Foppolo that I used to go. Uh, unknown by most tourists, uh, locals to go skiing in, in the winter or uh, Pesaro, which was on the east coast on, uh, for, for summer holidays. So. I, you know, I, I spent a lot of time there, growing up from the age of five, six, seven. She was only with him for about three or four years, but we stayed in touch, you know.

• 29:52Speaker 00

  I used to go and visit him all the time because he was, he was a laugh, you know. Of course, his, sadly, his lifestyle killed him with a couple of heart attacks at the end of everything.

• 30:04Joe Rogan?

  It's usually how it goes when you're having a good time.

• 30:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, he was having too much of a good time, I'm afraid, but I miss him dearly. He certainly was, you know, one of those characters that you just, you know, you admired.

• 30:17Joe Rogan?

  When I go to Italy, it feels like almost immediately you have like a decrease in blood pressure.

• 30:23Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 30:24Joe Rogan?

  Like almost immediately.

• 30:25Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:25Joe Rogan?

  It's like the vibe of the people and the way they live is just relaxed.

• 30:31Speaker 00

  They can be a bit stressed sometimes though with the shouting at each other and the.

• 30:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but even that, it doesn't seem like shouting, like American shouting leads to violence.

• 30:41Speaker 00

  Yes, this is true.

• 30:42Joe Rogan?

  I hear American shouting, I'm like, let's get the fuck out of here.

• 30:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, agreed, agreed.

• 30:46Joe Rogan?

  I hear Italian shouting, like, what happened? Did someone in the kitchen fuck up? Like, what happened? What went wrong?

• 30:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I, I don't want to sound pompous, but it does sound pompous that, you know, I, if I have friends come over from the States or London and, you know, I'll say.

• 31:02Joe Rogan?

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• 31:43Joe Rogan?

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• 32:26Joe Rogan?

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• 32:58Speaker 00

  Fancy, you know, getting some Italian tonight. And we'll get in the car and we'll be on the freeway or the motorway over there. And they'll be saying, "Where the f are we going?" You know? And I'm going, "Go for Italian." And there's a little town about an hour away from Monaco. Tiny, little medieval town called, uh, well, I'll give it away, actually. Can't give it away.

• 33:24Speaker 00

  Where I'll just go and get the best spaghetti vongole on the planet, made by a grandmother who's in a kitchen, you know, 10 by 10 at the best of times, you know, with all... And it's down on the water and it's just, you know, it's Italy for me. If you're not in the mountains, if you're by the sea, at its best. And, you know, they all get dressed up at sunset. You know, they all love to walk the promenade and, you know, in their finest attire. And, you know, sit there and watch the world go by and drink their coffee and chat. I, you know, because I lived in LA for, I think it was about eight years, and I went back.

• 34:06Speaker 00

  The story of me going back actually was that I flew back to London to see a premiere of a film called Backbeat. It's about the early Beatles. I didn't know anything about it, but I had an invite, so I went to see it. And I met this guy who said, who's a line producer, film producer, and he said, you know, have you been to Monaco before? I said, no, I've never even thought about it really. And he said, do you like Grand Prix? I said, not really a Grand Prix kind of guy. He said, well, listen, if you've

• 34:45Speaker 00

  got nothing to do this weekend, after, you know, we saw the film and the premiere, you know, why don't you come down? I've got an apartment, I've got an extra room, I know the town inside out, you know. And I was thinking, oh, what am I gonna do? Go back to LA and be numb again? And so I literally went down to Monaco the next day. And he just showed me around. And we went to this very famous restaurant and famous corner called the Rascasse Corner on the Grand Prix circuit. And it's literally where you're having a prawn cocktail and there's a car coming at you at about 180 miles an hour

• 35:30Speaker 00

  with just a chicken wire fence in front of your face. And you're going.

• 35:34Joe Rogan?

  How far away?

• 35:35Speaker 00

  Holy shit. I mean, directly in front of you. I mean, the car could be.

• 35:40Joe Rogan?

  So this is it right here?

• 35:41Speaker 00

  Yeah. That's not the Rascasse Corner, that's the Loews Corner. Rascasse Corner is very, very famous little spot. There it is. Yeah, that's it. So you'd be behind the chicken wire fence. This is a kind of modern version of it. But that's even more protection than it used to have. And you'd have a bit of lunch there. And that was the hotspot in Monaco for years and years. There were three brothers that owned it, real troublemakers. And it was a blast, but.

• 36:19Speaker 00

  So you had the car, so I went, all right, I'm into this. And so I spent the summer down there. And I used to have a little bungalow on Mulholland and Coldwater. And I had a caretaker there because I had a dog at the time.

• 36:37Speaker 00

  And I just said, hi, Tim.

• 36:42Speaker 00

  Pack it up, sell the house, I'm not coming back. And I didn't, I didn't go back.

• 36:46Joe Rogan?

  Did you take your dog?

• 36:48Speaker 00

  Uh, the dog actually died before I, I, yeah, sadly, it was getting on. But, but yes.

• 36:56Joe Rogan?

  You said fuck it, I'm moving tomorrow.

• 36:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, that, that was, yeah, I just, I just put everything in storage. I rented this kind of

• 37:06Speaker 00

  what could be seen as a Miami Vice kind of apartment.

• 37:10Joe Rogan?

  How so?

• 37:10Speaker 00

  On the thirtieth floor. Um, it just had

• 37:16Speaker 00

  marble and a mirrored wall with no furniture. And so I bought a couch off of the floor of a store called Habitat. Because it would take like six weeks to order and I had nothing. And so I had, I bought like a couch. I bought a TV, even though there was no English TV back then. This is thirty years ago. And I just had a trunk to put the TV on. Occasionally you get American movies. And a mattress on the floor and I lived like that for ten years. And just, and just was really stupid.

• 37:55Joe Rogan?

  Did you enjoy it?

• 37:56Speaker 00

  It was just stupid.

• 37:57Joe Rogan?

  Did you enjoy that?

• 37:58Speaker 00

  I had two, I've, I've had two.

• 38:02Speaker 00

  Well, I've had three major, well, no, four. Uh, it's like the Spanish Inquisition, four major incidents. Now, I, I mean, London back in the day used to be a great place to, to party and enjoy. And then I moved to New, New York for a few years, uh, early in my career, in my early twenties. And, but I almost, I think I almost died there with the partying that went on and the clubs back in that, that, that hey, the heyday then, and it was celebrity central, you know.

• 38:36Speaker 00

  Uh, with the likes of, at the Limelight with Alice Cooper and a few other fruitcakes.

• 38:43Speaker 00

  And then, and then I, I really did feel like I was, you know, I could have, I could have.

• 38:49Joe Rogan?

  Gone off rails.

• 38:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, easily. I was borderline. I enjoyed it too much. And then I went out to LA. And a friend of mine had a convertible and we just drove across Mulholland. Down to Malibu and I went, fuck, this is gorgeous. What the hell am I doing back? So I moved to LA. I packed up and moved. And that's, I did exactly the same thing. I found a place to, to live and I just, you know, was there until I could get myself situated.

• 39:20Joe Rogan?

  I think I met you in LA.

• 39:21Speaker 00

  Are you serious?

• 39:22Joe Rogan?

  In nineteen ninety-three.

• 39:24Speaker 00

  That's a good possibility. That would have been middle, mid to end of my term out there.

• 39:28Joe Rogan?

  I was doing something for MTV.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 39:32Joe Rogan?

  And you were one of the first celebrities that I met. You, I met Rico Suave and a couple of other people.

• 39:39Speaker 00

  Shut the front door. Yes. Yeah, because, yeah, I was, yeah, early in on the MTV stuff. The, the label I was with was pushing whatever, you know, throw me on whatever was available.

• 39:52Joe Rogan?

  I was with this woman who was an executive at MTV. And she was taking me around and showing me LA. You know, I'd never been to LA before. And, well, I'd been once for a martial arts competition when I was young. Here was, and she took me to this nightclub and you were at the front door about to get in. And I was like, holy shit, this is Julianne Monahan.

• 40:17Speaker 00

  Which one it was?

• 40:17Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't, I remember very little about it.

• 40:20Speaker 00

  Was I with some fruitcakes? I'm sure it was.

• 40:22Joe Rogan?

  I don't remember. I just remember like, oh, that's a famous guy. John Lennon's son. Crazy. Because, you know, I was coming from New York.

• 40:30Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 40:31Joe Rogan?

  Twenty-five, twenty-six years old. I didn't know anything. And I was like, this is so strange. It was just strange to me to be in these like Hollywood parties with this MTV executive who's taking me around and showing me all this stuff.

• 40:41Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:42Joe Rogan?

  She was just kind of like introducing, like, this is what it's like.

• 40:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:45Joe Rogan?

  It's what everybody does. They go out, they go out to the clubs and it was just.

• 40:48Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, the scary, well, the scary thing about LA was that you thought it was all over by two o'clock. You know, because they literally pull your drinks at one thirty. But then they go to someone's house.

• 41:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 41:01Speaker 00

  And they continue till dawn, you know. So that was dangerous too. So I was happy that I got away from that.

• 41:10Joe Rogan?

  Fortunately, I avoided all that.

• 41:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're lucky.

• 41:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 41:13Speaker 00

  I mean, there was, there was some fun to be had, no, no question about it, but.

• 41:17Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure.

• 41:18Speaker 00

  A lot of it was kind of dark too.

• 41:20Joe Rogan?

  Yes, I'm sure. Well, that's when you, when you start adding cocaine to human beings, you get darkness.

• 41:26Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, and a lot of Jack Daniels too.

• 41:30Joe Rogan?

  They go hand in hand.

• 41:31Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 41:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I avoided all that luckily. When I moved to LA, I, I'm one of those people that's like, I.

• 41:36Speaker 00

  You were out there, how long were you out there for?

• 41:40Joe Rogan?

  Um, I guess thirty, well, no, not quite thirty years, uh, twenty six years, because I've been here for four.

• 41:47Speaker 00

  Stretch, okay.

• 41:48Joe Rogan?

  The most, yeah, the most of my life, the most I've ever lived anywhere, I lived there. But I only went to parties, like a handful, very small handful of times. It was all like I was dragged to them.

• 42:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:01Joe Rogan?

  You know, like the last one I was dragged to was Naomi Campbell's birthday party, which was.

• 42:06Speaker 00

  I'm sure that was.

• 42:07Joe Rogan?

  It was insane.

• 42:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:08Joe Rogan?

  It was with Dave Chappelle. So Dave and I were at the Comedy Store and, you know, Dave knows everybody.

• 42:13Speaker 00

  Yes, yeah, yeah.

• 42:15Joe Rogan?

  Hey, man, there's a party up in the hills. You want to go? And I was like, I don't want to go to any fucking parties.

• 42:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:20Joe Rogan?

  He's like, come on, man, I want to go alone. So I said, okay. So me and Dave, we drove all the way up. It was like a scene in a movie.

• 42:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:27Joe Rogan?

  Because like here is me and my super famous friend and we're my Porsche and we're my race car, I have a GT three.

• 42:36Joe Rogan?

  We're driving up in the hills and then we have to stop at this place and then you have to get on a shuttle. And then you get to the house and then you get on an elevator, an outside elevator that takes you from the main house to the party house.

• 42:51Speaker 00

  Right.

• 42:51Joe Rogan?

  So they had a party house on the top of this hill. So we're up in this elevator with Demi Moore, which is weird as it is.

• 42:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:58Joe Rogan?

  I'm like, hi, you know, it's fucking weird, I famous lady.

• 43:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:01Joe Rogan?

  And then we get to the top of this hill and it's just everybody famous. It's Lenny Kravitz and all these different people and so. Naomi Campbell, there's a photograph of her on the the side of the hill that's literally fifty feet tall. It's enormous naked photograph of her.

• 43:17Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 43:18Joe Rogan?

  You know, because it's her birthday.

• 43:19Speaker 00

  Well, of course.

• 43:19Joe Rogan?

  She's unbelievably beautiful still, as old as she is. I don't know how she'll old she is, but she looks sensational. So we get to the top of this place. We're hanging out. It's very weird. It's very weird. And then Dave pulls me aside. He goes, man. I wouldn't want to be this famous. I go, hey, man. You're the most famous motherfucker here. He goes, really?

• 43:37Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 43:38Joe Rogan?

  Because we were a little high. He goes, really? I go, a hundred percent. You're the most famous person here.

• 43:42Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 43:42Joe Rogan?

  This is, we're just laughing. Like, this is so crazy. And then we got out of there, went right back to the Comedy Store. We're like, oh. I can't do this.

• 43:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:50Joe Rogan?

  It's just too strange.

• 43:52Speaker 00

  The the scenes are pretty weird out there, that's for sure.

• 43:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also these celebrities, they know they can't hang out with regular people, I think. They feel too weird. So I think they try to get together.

• 44:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:03Joe Rogan?

  And so we were in like a.

• 44:05Speaker 00

  That's absolutely, you're spot on.

• 44:06Joe Rogan?

  A vampire den of famous people.

• 44:08Speaker 00

  You are absolutely spot on.

• 44:10Joe Rogan?

  They call it like, he said it was like an Eyes Wide Shut party. I'm like, that's what it feels like. It feels like you're in a secret fraternity.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  There's, yeah, there's a few that I've left that I felt very uncomfortable being at.

• 44:23Joe Rogan?

  Like what?

• 44:23Speaker 00

  I I mean, I can't couldn't tell you exactly where and when, but certainly. Uh, some weird ones up in the hills. I just went, no, this just doesn't feel good.

• 44:32Joe Rogan?

  There's something about the act of going up into the hills, like you're going to the lair, the dragon's lair.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  Well, the the one of the things was the fact that, well, I mean, now you've got. Ubers all over the place, but, you know, back in my day, um, there was no taxis around either. So you'd get trapped.

• 44:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 44:54Speaker 00

  And then you'd figure, well, I'm here anyway, you know.

• 44:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you can't get out.

• 44:59Speaker 00

  Might as well have another drink.

• 45:02Speaker 00

  And that's what would happen more often than not, but uh yeah, so it's uh yeah, kind of better not to.

• 45:10Joe Rogan?

  Definitely better not to, but maybe go a couple of times.

• 45:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, go and check it out. Yeah, go and see what that's all about. Yeah.

• 45:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Many people have lost their time.

• 45:21Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:21Joe Rogan?

  They've lost their time to those places.

• 45:23Speaker 00

  It's very messy.

• 45:24Joe Rogan?

  It becomes a part of your life and your lifestyle. It's deeply unhealthy, both. It's physically unhealthy, but it's also like spiritually unhealthy.

• 45:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:35Joe Rogan?

  It's a weird way to spend your time.

• 45:37Speaker 00

  Been there, done that. Thank you very much.

• 45:39Joe Rogan?

  You look fine. You got through it.

• 45:41Speaker 00

  No, I did. I did get through it.

• 45:43Joe Rogan?

  But don't you think it's good to just know, though?

• 45:45Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, not the way to do it.

• 45:47Speaker 00

  No, I think if you don't know, you know, you can't. You can't talk about it. You can't, you can't understand.

• 45:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 45:56Speaker 00

  That weird journey that you go through. Uh, I think you have to do certain things sometimes just to realize what it's all about.

• 46:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, LA is so.

• 46:06Speaker 00

  It's that balancing. It's the light and the dark, you know?

• 46:08Joe Rogan?

  LA is so particularly odd too, because everyone's chasing this very specific goal of notoriety. Like it's success, but success is it's quantified by notoriety. Like the more famous you are, the more popular, the bigger your song is.

• 46:27Speaker 00

  Now, you know, all you've got to have is a bloody iPhone or whatever.

• 46:32Joe Rogan?

  TikTok. Yeah.

• 46:33Speaker 00

  Earn an account and that's it. I mean.

• 46:36Joe Rogan?

  Very strange.

• 46:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, really, really odd. You know, I, I can't quite get to grips with all of that, to be honest with you.

• 46:44Joe Rogan?

  I don't think anybody can. And I think it, it's essentially being captured by a form of technology that has leveraged our desire for this attention, our desire for this notoriety.

• 46:57Speaker 00

  But it's also being known for nothing.

• 46:59Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 47:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's the scary thing. And, and, and having this element of, of what seems to be the latest generation of this privilege.

• 47:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 47:09Speaker 00

  You know, uh.

• 47:11Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 47:11Speaker 00

  Where they believe that, uh, you know, um.

• 47:16Speaker 00

  Everything is owed to them.

• 47:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 47:17Speaker 00

  And I I that entitled, yeah. And I find that shocking, you know.

• 47:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, that comes along with the the quest, right? If the quest is just notoriety, like if you're an artist and you happen to get famous because everybody loves your music or loves your photography or loves your your books or whatever it is. That's a different sort of a relationship because people love you for what you've made, what you've produced.

• 47:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's a purpose to it.

• 47:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and I love people like that because I'm fascinated by people that are able to create things that resonate with everybody or resonate with an enormous amount of people. It's fascinating to be around them and to like to kind of just, you know, I know a lot of famous people now and I know some of them are just fantastic people. They're just really interesting people that have.

• 48:01Speaker 00

  Well, you you have very interesting people on your show, that's for sure. I mean, that's what intrigued me, you know, from, you know, Professor Brian Cox, you know, who I'm an absolute fan of.

• 48:12Joe Rogan?

  He's amazing.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  I'm sure of meeting him.

• 48:14Joe Rogan?

  Such a nice guy.

• 48:15Speaker 00

  Lovely guy, mind blowing.

• 48:17Joe Rogan?

  Mind blowing.

• 48:17Speaker 00

  Too much information for for for my good.

• 48:20Joe Rogan?

  It's so funny, I was talking about him with a friend of mine the other day and my friend wasn't aware of him and I I had just done a podcast with him. And so I and I'd gone to the club from the podcast, I'm like, oh, my God, I had the greatest podcast, this guy blew my mind.

• 48:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:33Joe Rogan?

  I've had him on several times and he's always amazing. And and my friend looks at the photo, he goes, what does he look like? I I pull up, he's like, is that guy in a fucking band or something? I go, yeah, he was in a band.

• 48:43Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 48:43Joe Rogan?

  He's like, no way. I go, yeah, he's in a successful band.

• 48:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:46Joe Rogan?

  He's an actual brilliant scientist who is in a successful band.

• 48:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, mind boggling, mind, but I I mean, I doesn't comprehend.

• 48:55Joe Rogan?

  Because he looks like a rock star.

• 48:56Speaker 00

  He does, he does. He's, yeah, he's not changed his look since the beginning.

• 49:00Joe Rogan?

  And he's such a great science communicator.

• 49:03Speaker 00

  Well, that's the thing. See, I love science, but I get lost in it sometimes. But he is probably probably the closest I'll ever get to really trying to have an insight into what it's all about. You know, as best as he can describe it.

• 49:18Joe Rogan?

  He's really good at explaining to people that don't have the proper understanding of all the.

• 49:25Joe Rogan?

  All the terminology and all the ways they discover it, he can lay it out for the layperson.

• 49:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, which which is why he's so fascinating, which is why everybody should know him.

• 49:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, his show is wonderful, too. Have you ever seen his show? They do a live.

• 49:39Speaker 00

  No, I have not.

• 49:40Joe Rogan?

  Enormous screens and they show you like history of the universe and stellar nurseries and all this wild stuff. It's really incredible stuff.

• 49:48Speaker 00

  No, fantastic, fantastic stuff.

• 49:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've I've been very fortunate in that way that I've had a chance to talk to so many extraordinary people and it's great. But it makes talking to boring people almost painful, like like. Like you're just holding your.

• 50:06Speaker 00

  Well, I I don't know which category I'm in.

• 50:08Joe Rogan?

  You're not in the boring kind, no, no.

• 50:11Speaker 00

  Well, I can be, I think we all can be, I guess, at some stage, but.

• 50:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, just the fact that you're willing to do what you've done is to take these trips and just move to a place. I think that's great. I think people need more of that in their life. I think you could see the world from your neighborhood and from where you live. And get a really distorted sense of this experience, this very unique experience of these bizarre thinking creatures interacting with each other on this isolated planet that's hurling through the universe.

• 50:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:42Joe Rogan?

  And you could think that you kind of understand the experience until you go to other places.

• 50:46Speaker 00

  Well, I see I see you're a big fan of Bourdain as well.

• 50:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 50:50Speaker 00

  And I loved his show, so I still watch them all the time because it's just what he discovered and how he entrenched himself with the people that he went to meet and the and the conversations and the food are just, that's my cup of tea right there. You know, I think, how can you not want to do that, learn and love that experience, you know?

• 51:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, he had such a like infectious passion for different cultures and their food and the art of food. Like, he was the first guy that made me consider that cooking is actually an art form. Like, I kind of knew it, but I didn't think of it. I kind of just said, oh, delicious food, awesome. Oh, this guy's a really great chef, awesome.

• 51:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:34Joe Rogan?

  And then I watched his first show, No Reservations, like, oh. Okay, duh. It's art. It's art that you eat.

• 51:41Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 51:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's why they're all weird and now have tattoos and fucking weird earrings.

• 51:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:46Joe Rogan?

  Okay, they're artists. Okay, that makes so much sense. And I was like, oh, you ignorant fuck. You like you had never put it in that category for, I just like decided, no, that's just food. But no, there's a, there's an art to food.

• 51:59Speaker 00

  It's another level.

• 52:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like the place you were talking about linguine with clams, linguine vongole, which is my favorite dish of all time.

• 52:05Speaker 00

  Spaghetti vongole.

• 52:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, when it's done, right?

• 52:08Speaker 00

  I promise that if you ever come back to Monte, as we call it, uh, I'll drive you.

• 52:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I'll go. I'll go.

• 52:16Speaker 00

  We'll go for spaghetti vongole and hope the dear grandmother's still alive.

• 52:20Joe Rogan?

  It also makes me angry because when I eat, uh, pasta and pizza over in Italy, I don't feel like shit. And then I come to America and I eat the same supposed things and I feel.

• 52:33Speaker 00

  I can eat a friggin salad here and put on weight. I don't know what's going on. I'm serious, though.

• 52:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's seed oils. Seed oils in the salad dressing and sugar.

• 52:43Speaker 00

  Yep, all of that, all of that. I, yeah, I, I agree. I live, uh, it's a much healthier lifestyle over there without question.

• 52:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, the food hasn't been violated.

• 52:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 52:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's true.

• 52:54Joe Rogan?

  It's generally organic.

• 52:55Speaker 00

  You can eat pizza every day and pasta every day. It just, and also that I think the other real big thing here is the portion control as well.

• 53:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're gluttons.

• 53:05Speaker 00

  I mean, you could, you can have one plate full of food here and it'll serve four people in Europe.

• 53:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 53:12Speaker 00

  Literally.

• 53:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, that's a fact. I think, um, you know, I was poor when I was young and I think because of that, I'm more, even more of a glutton.

• 53:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:22Joe Rogan?

  Cause I just want more food. I want all the food.

• 53:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:25Joe Rogan?

  And then I work out a lot, so I'm always hungry.

• 53:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:27Joe Rogan?

  So then I, I, I have a real.

• 53:29Speaker 00

  That's a different thing, though.

• 53:30Joe Rogan?

  But yeah, I mean, the only thing that keeps me from being fat is my exercise routine and discipline. Cause if I was just giving into my whims, I'd be five hundred pounds.

• 53:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 53:40Joe Rogan?

  I just love food.

• 53:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:42Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's, you know, it's especially when you go to a different culture, you know? If you go to somewhere, like you can go to Thailand and eat authentic Thai food in Thailand. It's like, oh, man.

• 53:53Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:54Joe Rogan?

  There's something special about it.

• 53:55Speaker 00

  It's great when you've got friends who have that same appreciation that, you know, while you're eating lunch, you're talking about dinner.

• 54:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

• 54:05Speaker 00

  That's how excited you are about food.

• 54:07Joe Rogan?

  And it's also, it just realigns your priorities. Like, what really are you trying to get out of life? You're trying to get out of life memorable experiences with people you care about. Those are like the best moments in life.

• 54:20Speaker 00

  No question, no question about it.

• 54:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 54:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I long for that.

• 54:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 54:25Speaker 00

  Because also, I go on these very long working time periods and I don't get to see a lot of friends quite often, you know? And so, I really try and work out and look at my schedule these days and go, I'm taking some time out here for a couple of days. I want to see my friends, I want to say hello, I want to share some time and stories and food with them. You know, so it's become a key thing to have that included in running around like a headless chicken all the time, you know?

• 54:57Joe Rogan?

  Is that what inspired your photography? Because this book is really excellent. Your photography is great.

• 55:02Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 55:06Speaker 00

  You know, it was a dear friend, Timothy White, who's a celebrity photographer. And he'd done my second and third album. And we were doing a charity single called Lucy, which was about Lucy Voden, who was the Lucy in the sky with Diamond that I grew up with, who died from lupus. And then I became the lupus ambassador for the Lupus Foundation of America.

• 55:39Speaker 00

  We were doing a single to raise money called Lucy. And we were doing with another great artist called James Scott Cook. And we were doing a photo shoot. And he'd sent me some pictures and I started screwing around with his pictures. And he said to me, and you don't, you actually don't do that with another photographer's work. You know, he said, what, what the fuck are you doing with my pictures? I said, he said, where did you learn how to do this? I said, well, I, I didn't, I just, you know, I, I'm intuitively inspired to, to play around with stuff. You know, it's, I'm still a big kid, so. And he said, well, do you have any other, do you have other photos? Do you actually have photos yourself that you've taken and worked on?

• 56:24Speaker 00

  I said, well, I've got bits and bobs, but nothing. So he, he and I sat down and looked through all the photos I had. And he, and I think there was maybe a thousand at that time, which isn't much at all. I'm now over a hundred and twenty thousand photos. Oh, it's mind boggling. Um, um, that's why this was difficult. But, um, yeah, so he, he said, Jules, why don't you do something with this stuff? And I said, what, what, what am I gonna do? He said, listen, you should do an exhibition. You've got some really beautiful things here. And I said, I said, listen, I'll do it, I'll do it if, if, if, if you mentor me through the whole process. Which he did.

• 57:09Speaker 00

  And, um, and I, I was probably more petrified at the first exhibition that I did, which was in New York at the old CBGB's. Um, um, which turned into the Morrison Hotel Gallery. And that was in twenty ten, I think. And. I was more petrified the three days leading up to that than I was ever going on stage. Well, probably my first ever stage performance, which I did in Dallas at rehearsal space that was down here for the first ever tour. Now, again, the anxiety, you know, it's the unknown.

• 57:53Speaker 00

  I don't know what, you know, the worry of what people are going to think because, you know, not just being you, but John Lennon's son, you know, being the second John, so to speak, was always an issue for me. You know, it's feeling like you have to doubly prove yourself. So, and, and literally an hour or two before the opening as well, there was the most horrendous storm and downpour in New York and I thought, well, that's it. Nobody's coming. But to my utter delight, I had reviews from fine art, photography, magazines, et cetera,

• 58:35Speaker 00

  et cetera, that gave me nothing but praise and I was shocked.

• 58:39Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 58:40Speaker 00

  Absolutely shocked. So I just, I just continued doing that. I'm now over, I think, forty-two exhibitions worldwide and I just finished my biggest one in Venice at a museum over the last three months. And the book, in fact, it, I had approached other publications before, but been pretty much turned down by everybody. And then out of the blue, the, earlier this year, this company out of Berlin called Tenois said, listen, do you want to do a photography book? And I said, hell yeah. And they said, why haven't you done one before?

• 59:24Speaker 00

  I said, because nobody gave me the upper for a continuity. Excuse my French.

• 59:29Joe Rogan?

  Do you think that's because you're John Lennon's son? Like, there's a burden that is very unique to you.

• 59:36Speaker 00

  I, listen, I certainly recognize that there's walls up, without question.

• 59:41Joe Rogan?

  What is that like? Like, what are the walls? Like, do you think it's just? They dismiss you.

• 59:49Speaker 00

  There's some things going on. I mean, I've discussed this with Rebecca, who you met, my manager, and a few other people. You know, there's, there's occasions where I'll, I'll be totally blanked. Like with the last album I came out with, Jude, uh, which took, uh, you know, in between five and thirty years to write and record. It was old songs and new songs that I wanted to balance the sound.

• 1:00:13Speaker 00

  And it was, it was at a time when, um, I'd gone through a lot of changes myself and I, I had decided to finally call myself, be Julian. I'd been John Charles Julian Lennon all my life, but everybody had always known me as Julian, even mum. Mum and dad called me Julian. So I'm like, you know, I want to be, I want to be me finally. So by deed poll in twenty twenty, I said, right, I'm going to be Julian now and the album's going to be called Jude. And the, the reason I called it Jude

• 1:00:49Speaker 00

  was it was finally, uh, uh, not only in acceptance, but, uh, but actually, uh, what's the terminology?

• 1:01:02Speaker 00

  It's, I'm, I'm actually taking ownership, should I say, of the name Jude and, and what that represented for all these years, um, to other people and to me. So anyway, so I, I, you know, that was, the album was a biggie for me, calling the album Jude for starters, inciting.

• 1:01:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:01:26Speaker 00

  Hopefully positive things. Um, um, but the weird thing was, you know, I did, uh, I put this whole band together and I, I, I wanted to, as an, as a starter, to go on all the, the, the TV shows that I'd always ever wanted to appear on.

• 1:01:46Joe Rogan?

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• 1:02:29Joe Rogan?

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• 1:03:51Speaker 00

  For instance, in England, like Jules Holland.

• 1:03:58Speaker 00

  Later with Jules Holland, which is the only live music show that I've watched all my life, literally.

• 1:04:07Speaker 00

  There's Graham Norton, and I'd done their radio shows, which is really, really weird. And we got on like a house on fire and I performed live. And that all went down well. And then it was kind of like, see you on the real show. Producers turned me down. And, you know, and same with a lot of the late night American shows. Got, got, just didn't, they weren't interested. And I, you know, I had, I had, you know, I'd done the name change. I'd been away for 10 years. I'd, I'd called the album Jude. You know, there was, there was a lot to talk about, you know.

• 1:04:48Speaker 00

  And a great deal more than I'm presenting right now that.

• 1:04:54Speaker 00

  Anyway, I was, I was turned down and still, and that still happens to me.

• 1:05:02Speaker 00

  Which, which saddens me because just when you feel like you want to open up. You know, and answer any question you can throw at me. I, I, you know, I've not been allowed to not, that's what it's felt like. That I've not been allowed to speak my piece, whatever that is, you know. On, on whatever subject matter.

• 1:05:25Joe Rogan?

  It's weird. It's like the, the gatekeeper aspect of it is weird, but it's also weird. Like, why not? Like, what, what would be the hesitance?

• 1:05:34Speaker 00

  I don't understand.

• 1:05:35Joe Rogan?

  It's this, the idea of the son of a great man, you know, and there's this weird. We have a dismissal and I'm very guilty of it myself. The son of a great man, I would assume like that guy's fucked.

• 1:05:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:47Joe Rogan?

  He's fucked. It's like the burden is too high.

• 1:05:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:49Joe Rogan?

  Your dad was John Lennon.

• 1:05:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:51Joe Rogan?

  Iconic.

• 1:05:52Speaker 00

  Well, and you, and I think with a lot of people, they don't want anybody to interfere with that.

• 1:05:59Speaker 00

  You know, I mean, how dare the, you know, the son come along and even try and be better in any way, shape or form, or be as good as or whatever.

• 1:06:09Joe Rogan?

  Or whatever. Yeah, you're immediately dismissed.

• 1:06:11Speaker 00

  Which is why, which is why, you know, to a certain degree, photography really appealed to me. Number one, because. And the reality is, I prefer it behind the camera. You know, I don't mind being a goofball once in a while, doing in front of the camera things, but I'm not really comfortable there. But behind the camera, and you know, travelling is what I've... I have a foundation called the White Feather Foundation and you know, we try to help people all over the world and it started... I know that you have interest in indigenous cultures. Sure. And I don't know if you know the backstory to this, to the White Feather Foundation at all. I don't.

• 1:06:55Speaker 00

  Okay, so, here we go. Okay.

• 1:06:59Speaker 00

  I was on tour with probably my most, at least outside of America, most well-known song. It was a number one and top ten in countries all over the world except for America. And it was called Salt Water. And Salt Water is about environmental and humanitarian issues. And I was number one in Australia. I was doing all kinds of shows. I was doing promo and tour as well. And I found myself in Adelaide. And I got this call from the hotel management saying, "Excuse me, Mr. Lennon, but there's an Aboriginal tribe down here with TV crews who want to say hi."

• 1:07:45Speaker 00

  And I thought it was like an on-the-road prank. I said, "Yeah, sure. Sure, why would they be coming to see me?" You know? And they called back and they said, "No, no, no, this is serious. Can you come down, please?" And so, I think, "TV crews, Aboriginal tribe, what's this about?" And so, I kind of get dolled up a little bit because I don't know what the TV shows are or cameras are. Right. So I go down. And in the lobby, there's a little platform and about thirty people. Half of them indigenous, TV crews, a bunch of other stuff.

• 1:08:27Speaker 00

  And I honestly have no idea what it's about. And this woman, who was the elder of this particular tribe called the Moaning People...

• 1:08:37Speaker 00

  Uh, walked up to me uh and presented me with a male swan's white feather, which is about yay big. And said, you know, can you help us? You have, you have a voice. Can you help us? And I just kind of went. Well, you know, do I just continue being the rock and roller? Or do I step up to the plate? Whatever that means. And so I-

• 1:09:04Joe Rogan?

  What specifically did they want help with?

• 1:09:06Speaker 00

  Well, I'll, I'll, I'll tell you. I- i- initially, you know, um. I, I didn't know what the, what their problems were. I, I imagined that it would be the same as most other indigenous tribes around the world that have had issues, you know? Um, and they said, they said, you know, can you help us? And I said, I'll, you know, I'll do it for the children.

• 1:09:31Speaker 00

  So I, I, I guess what I was saying is the next generation, I can, you know, try and. Anyway, so I, I, I, that this woman was called Irish. She was the elder. She's that since passed in the last year or so. Um, um. But I, I spent 10 years making a documentary with a best friend, Kim Kindersley, who, who, who initiated this whole thing. And we made a documentary called Whale Dreamers. Uh, independent, we had no money really behind it, no sponsorship. Uh, we won about eight international independent film awards, which was great. Um, and, but the backstory to this is that, um.

• 1:10:16Speaker 00

  Is that dad had said to me, uh, and I couldn't tell you when or where, just was one of those times that we were together. He just said that, you know, if something ever happens to me, that I'll let you know that, that, to, to let you know that I'm okay. Or that we're all gonna be okay. Will be in the form of a white feather.

• 1:10:41Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:10:43Speaker 00

  So. When I, when that woman presented me with a white figure, feather, sorry.

• 1:10:50Speaker 00

  Um, you know, the goose, the goosebumps came on heavy. I get them now every time I talk about the story.

• 1:10:57Joe Rogan?

  I'm getting them right now.

• 1:10:58Speaker 00

  So, yeah, there she is. There's Iris and there's Buna, who's uh, one of the other guys.

• 1:11:05Joe Rogan?

  That is so crazy.

• 1:11:07Speaker 00

  I still have that, that I still have that in the original envelope that she gave it to me and it's, you know, it's a in a, uh, in a very special place at home.

• 1:11:17Joe Rogan?

  I mean, you can talk all about coincidences.

• 1:11:19Speaker 00

  Oh, no, listen, that, that, for me, I'm sorry, that was undeniable. Re- regardless of where my faith or spirituality or religion was. To me, that was, uh, this is real. This is as real as it gets.

• 1:11:36Joe Rogan?

  It's funny because people would, people love to dismiss these things. Like, oh, hogwash. Oh, it's just coincidence. Oh, it's, it could have been a variety of different things and but the reality is mathematically, like, what are the odds? Just what are the odds that you would be contacted by an indigenous tribe and they would bring you the very thing that your father said he would provide you as proof?

• 1:12:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I was in Australia, uh, bit number one at the time with Saltwater, the, the most environmental humanitarian song I've ever written and performed, you know?

• 1:12:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:12:15Speaker 00

  Uh, yeah, so, uh, uh, so I said, yeah, I'll do what I can. So we did make the film and then with the advent of, um, of course, um, the internet, I, uh, I thought, okay, let's, we will put a website together to, to sell the film, make some, you know? And, and, um, and I'd also said to my business manager, I said, if we make anything on this, I said, I want everything to go back to

• 1:12:44Speaker 00

  the, the, the moaning people and.

• 1:12:49Speaker 00

  And he said, the only way that that can happen is if you have a foundation. So initially, the foundation was just a vehicle, just to pass money along. But I started the White Feather Foundation to have, again, a vehicle to sell the

• 1:13:07Speaker 00

  the film. And then slowly but surely, I would start getting these emails from people over the years, you know, over time, sorry. Saying, well, you know, can you help us? And I'm going, well, I'm not really a foundation. I'm just, I did this project and I thought that was it.

• 1:13:25Speaker 00

  Anyway, there were a few other, there was lots of emails and I finally said, well, you know, all right, this is a platform. Let me see if I can, okay, what am I interested in? What can I do? What, you know, there's plenty of other charities out there. There's plenty of other people doing other things, but what can I do? What's most important to me?

• 1:13:47Speaker 00

  Indigenous tribes were the first, so the Moaning People. And then, in fact, in the film itself, in Whale Dreamers, the Kim, the, my director, or friend and director, had already done a segment of a film where he grouped eighty of the elders of the world, world's indigenous tribes, eighty from around the world, around a fire and just filmed them to, to talk about their plight and what they had in common. And the fact that their cultures and land were being taken away from them, being destroyed, et cetera, et cetera.

• 1:14:31Speaker 00

  So that was, that became one of the first orders of the day. Protect the moaning, protect indigenous tribes around the world. Try to buy back their lands and protect their cultures and their people and try and support them in whatever way we can, which is what we continue to do. And I was in Kenya, going to

• 1:14:55Speaker 00

  different schools and health clinics, mostly girls' schools. I set up

• 1:15:05Speaker 00

  A scholarship in my mum's name, the Cynthia Lennon Scholarship for Girls. And so we send them to college and universities where they go Oh, that's great. to learn how to protect their, their people and their, their families and cultures.

• 1:15:23Speaker 00

  And so we support, you know, we build health clinics and dormitories and we do it cause I mean, the stories that I heard from these girls about having to walk to and from schools that took three to six hours and they'd be exhausted by the time they got to, to home or to school. And that they, in order to, you know, get ahead, they had to pass, you know, certain exams, but they had the threat pretty much every day of being either raped or murdered. And they would literally stay in their own schools, sleep in, in the classrooms and convert them to dormitories at night so that they felt protected.

• 1:16:05Speaker 00

  I mean, it was, and when they went home, they were doing, you know, three hours of chores every night before they could do any homework and then go to sleep and then walk to school again. So you'd hear these incredible stories that you just, you just realize how lucky you are. And so we, we try to help, again, the indigenous. We do help with health and education as far as young kids, young girls across Africa, Kenya and Ethiopia. And also, uh, my last trip was

• 1:16:42Speaker 00

  to Colombia, to South America, to visit the Koji tribe, who were these insane, uh, people that chewed the cocoa leaves. Oh. Uh, but they used to be fishermen years ago before the Spanish arrived in the sixteen hundreds and chased them off into the Sierra Nevada Mountains. Is it cocoa leaves or cat? Yeah, it's cocoa leaves. Cocoa leaves. Yeah, yeah, and they, they chew it and, and, um, mix it with spit and then Oh, boy. Yeah, they're, they're all off their heads really, but.

• 1:17:15Speaker 00

  But they still have this beautiful culture and I was only there for a few days and we were up in the mountains with them and we there's there's another group um there's an NGO another group called the Amazon Conservation Team who the White Feather Foundation worked with and we went down there and bought was able to buy back some of their land and we did a couple of ceremonies with them um which were very, very beautiful but one of the most uh I probably one of the happiest moments of my life and I've only mentioned this once or twice was that we came back down from the mountains and we came to the sea where the we were staying

• 1:17:55Speaker 00

  in huts and uh and the Koji tribe came down with us um it lit a fire on the beach some sun was just going down and there was no phones, no computers, no nothing and we're just sitting on the beach and the fires between myself and the Koji tribe and and the sun's just going down and the waves are right in front and it's just very beautiful. Nobody on the beach, old beautiful beaten up tree trunks that have washed up on the shore and just a little haze from the from the the the the water uh and the sand being blown.

• 1:18:39Speaker 00

  And there was a peace that I can't explain that that I it was I looked over at them um and through the fire, you know, the the flames of the fire and we just smiled. There was no words. It was just some level of peace that had been found, just living in that moment, that present moment. And then the sun going down and then because there's no streetlights or anything else around, you saw every star in the sky possible. And so with that transition, hanging out with this one of the oldest tribes in South America.

• 1:19:23Speaker 00

  Uh, with the fire, with the sea, with the sky and the stars. There was, I can't even describe it. It was one of the most

• 1:19:35Speaker 00

  loving and most peaceful moments of my entire life. Wow. The simplicity of it. It was actually the simplicity of it all. And just the human heart and the appreciation for the world that we live in. And it's like, well, that's partly why I do what I do, you know, even with the photography is capturing those moments. Those once in a lifetime moments. And the other thing was, is that how I started doing photography is when I was on the road a lot, you do these real long haul flights, you know, to, to America or to, to Asia or wherever. And back in the day, you only had

• 1:20:17Speaker 00

  one movie on a projector. That was it. You know, you didn't have TV screens or the iPhones or, or anything to watch anything, you know. So once the movie was done and you'd had a bit, you know, a bit of food or whatever, that was it. Most people would go to sleep. I would always be twitching, of course. So I'd be looking out the window and staring at the clouds. And, and I would, I, I realized that, you know, what I was seeing was literally just moments. And they would never be again. They would be gone, fleeting. That's it. Whatever that cloud, that light, that shade, that shadow, the color, the beauty of that,

• 1:21:01Speaker 00

  the enormity of it as well was, so I started taking pictures of clouds. And I just thought that at these moments, while everybody else was asleep on the plane, I'd be sitting there looking out, either thinking about everything that was on my mind in the world, yeah. Or I'd be thinking of, I'd, I'd be thinking of nothing at all. And I'd just be at peace and again, like that moment in, in Colombia, just, uh,

• 1:21:33Speaker 00

  Absorbing everything that I found to be beautiful that was surrounded me, you know, so. So clouds were my thing at first. That was my moment to either get away or think about everything, you know. But mostly left that kind of element of freedom and space and just. Am I the anyone seeing this? Everybody else is asleep.

• 1:21:58Joe Rogan?

  Everyone's distracted.

• 1:21:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I started taking pictures of clouds and then, you know, I knew a few rock and rollers. So I started taking pictures of those too. And then one thing led to another because I'd go on these trips to Ethiopia with their great organizations like Charity Water.

• 1:22:21Speaker 00

  And again, Kenya and South America and a number of other places. I I just would take a camera with me. Because for the I and I have to confess, and I've said this a few times, I have the worst memory of anybody I know. Absolute terrible, absolutely terrible.

• 1:22:42Speaker 00

  And so in a way, this was taking a camera with me was to catalog what was going on. And it was only when I got back home, I put them on the screen and I go, oh, that's quite a nice picture. Oh, that's not so bad. What if I just did this, that and the other? And so I started making collections of my journeys, which eventually became my website and my photography. You know, I've never done a paid gig as such and I've never used nothing that was natural light or present light. So I've never set anything up. I've always tried to, again, get that moment, whatever it was.

• 1:23:24Speaker 00

  And then, you know, I had the opportunity, I know I've gone in a bit of a roundabout circle, but the, you know, they, the publishers came to me earlier this year saying, do you want to do a book? And I'm thinking, well, yes, and how do I do this? And, and because a lot of people don't know I'm a photographer in any way, shape or form, I, I thought, okay, can I, can I make it a retrospective? Can I, can I make it all the stuff that I'm interested in? You know, because often as a photographer, or even a musician, you get, oh, what is your favorite thing? What do you take pictures of? What are your songs about? About everything. Why do they, you know, that's, that, you know, the idea of being pigeonholed in any

• 1:24:07Speaker 00

  way, shape or form horrifies me.

• 1:24:10Joe Rogan?

  Me too.

• 1:24:12Speaker 00

  So this was a way for me to show my work. And it was a bit of a nightmare too, because I had decided with the onset of this exhibition, I'd been offered in, in Venice at this museum alongside Helmut Newton, no less. Why don't I try and marry the two? So I have the book come out the same time as the exhibition? Now, that meant working on the book like an absolute fruitcake madman on crack. I mean, we were doing nine to 12 hours a day, virtually, because they, he was based in

• 1:24:52Speaker 00

  the, the, the guy who I was working with from the publishers was based in Berlin, and I was where I was. So this would be virtual, back and forth, trying to figure out what makes a photography book great. It was some, it was something else. We did it in a couple of weeks. It was insane. And the hardest job of it all was, because I used to shoot anywhere between 150 and 100 pictures for a collection. I was never one of those that had like a limited edition of four or 10 pictures. You know, again, this was just a catalog of the work of what

• 1:25:37Speaker 00

  I'd seen and the, the charity stuff.

• 1:25:42Speaker 00

  But then I had to, you know, in those moments, I had to learn how to make a collection of fifty pictures, five pictures. I'm going, well, how the hell do I do that? How am I gonna do that? So it's being able to tell the same story of fifty pictures in five pictures.

• 1:26:03Joe Rogan?

  The problem is you know about the other ninety pictures.

• 1:26:05Speaker 00

  Well, of course, and as I keep saying, they're all my babies. So, you know, it's, uh, uh, uh, what it makes you realize is, okay, what's the truth? What's the really, really, really important message I'm trying to get across here? What am I trying to say? What am I trying to express here? You know, because half the time I just feel like a, you know, a messenger, really. I'm just capturing something and I'm sharing it. And the reason I say that is because once I started getting into this, a lot of the earlier emails I had were from disabled people or people that didn't have money, that couldn't travel around the world.

• 1:26:48Speaker 00

  And they would say, well, you're bringing this to us, you know, by taking these photos, you're showing us your journey and where you've been and these indigenous tribes and this and that. I'm going, that's pretty, that's really quite special. That's really, you know, really quite special because you're taking on another role. Because I try not to, I've, i- i- in whatever profession I've done, whether it's documentary work or books or children's books or music, I, I never try and shove things down people's throats. I just present things and you take what you want from them.

• 1:27:29Speaker 00

  So the idea was to put a book together that just showed the world as I'd seen it through those journeys that I've been on. Um, and what happened was that when we got the go-ahead for this exhibition, which was only earlier this year, I was thinking, how am I gonna do that? And that was gonna, I decided to make that a retrospective too. But how do I then chop that many pictures down to that of this exhibition?

• 1:28:03Speaker 00

  Again, I, funnily enough, the book became my guideline. So what I'd learnt in the editing process of putting the book together, I now looked to that and the book to see how I could present the work on the, in a larger scale in a museum and, which was bonkers, you know. And this, this all happened this year. So it's like,

• 1:28:31Speaker 00

  okay, all right, I, you know, I'm going for the ride with a, you know, I obviously want it, but, but, you know, when it all hits you at once, it's, it's quite something else. Um, it's, it's been a full on, full on busy, busy year. And there's been music involved too and other, other um, documentary film projects, which are, uh, you'll probably hear about next year. So it's, it's, it's probably been one of, weirdly, one of my busiest years.

• 1:29:01Joe Rogan?

  It seems like you're enjoying yourself, though.

• 1:29:04Speaker 00

  I'm alive. You know, that's, I think that's for me, that's, you know, people say, how are you? I'm alive. Um, and I, I have always gone with things that have been presented to me organically. Uh, a- a- any time I've ever fought that or, or, or been pushed into situations, uh, never, generally never works out.

• 1:29:31Joe Rogan?

  I think for everybody, that's true.

• 1:29:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:29:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:34Speaker 00

  So I, you know, I, I, I feel fortunate in that these things have come along and I've, I've been in the right headspace, thankfully, to go, yes, I wanna, I wanna do this, you know?

• 1:29:47Joe Rogan?

  When you started shooting, did you, uh, did you take classes in the technical aspects of photography?

• 1:29:54Speaker 00

  I don't have a clue.

• 1:29:55Joe Rogan?

  So did you, what, what kind of cameras are you using? How did you learn how to use them?

• 1:30:01Speaker 00

  I, I, I didn't. I didn't.

• 1:30:03Joe Rogan?

  You just like figured out how to focus them?

• 1:30:05Speaker 00

  Same, same with music. I play by ear. Not a clue how to read or write music.

• 1:30:11Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:30:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. Um, and this, I tell you, this is one of my fears is that, and I'll come back to this, but, um.

• 1:30:22Speaker 00

  Because I'm not a practicing musician, well, I haven't been for years anyway because of all the other work that I do. So if I'm not on the road and I'm not practicing and I've got a terrible memory, I forget. And so, you know, I've been cornered a few times and people say, come on, pick up the guitar or play the piano, give us a song. I couldn't.

• 1:30:46Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:30:47Speaker 00

  I couldn't, even if you gave me a million bucks tomorrow, I couldn't do it. My memory just doesn't work that way. And so, if, and this is why my manager and I, Rebecca, we keep having chats about going on the road. I said, listen, if we're gonna do this, then this is, this is a lot of work for me. This is, I have to relearn how to play my own songs and my lyrics, and I kid you not.

• 1:31:18Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:31:19Speaker 00

  So.

• 1:31:20Joe Rogan?

  But you also have to relearn self-taught.

• 1:31:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:31:24Joe Rogan?

  Right, so what would you do? Like, have you done that in the past where you had to relearn?

• 1:31:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, what, yeah, I mean, the last tour I did with the album, Everything Changes.

• 1:31:34Joe Rogan?

  How do you scale it? Like, how do you get going?

• 1:31:36Speaker 00

  You just have to get in the room.

• 1:31:38Joe Rogan?

  So you just get in the room and start fucking around with the guitar?

• 1:31:40Speaker 00

  Get in the room with the guys, you know, the band that you put together, generally I'll have one or two friends in the band, you know, and I have generally played, you know, rhythm guitar or a bit of piano for a couple of songs, but I have to relearn everything. I mean, it's, and then lyrics.

• 1:32:03Joe Rogan?

  How long does it take? How long does it take to relearn how to play?

• 1:32:05Speaker 00

  Well, when we were, we were actually setting up, as I said, to do a bunch of TV shows to promote the album. And I was quite surprised about how quickly because the band were so good. I walked into the room, they had the songs down already. And I just went, oh, fuck, shit, I'm screwed. So that means, again, I have to step up to the plate.

• 1:32:31Speaker 00

  And it was just a question of being in there every day, remembering, learning the chords, going over it, over it, over it again. And of course, when I'm, all this stuff that we were gonna perform was all new material. Because when I write a song, you know, if, if I've written the basics of a song in an hour or two, you know, and it's all there and then written the lyrics, and then produced it, recorded it, and it's done, that's the one and only, or couple of times that I'll have ever played it. So it's, it's almost a new song to me every time I come back to it. It's, it's a real weird one.

• 1:33:11Speaker 00

  So for the photography, you know, I just took along basically a, a, a really good quality automatic camera that, you know, took the shots.

• 1:33:22Joe Rogan?

  Did you know what you were buying or did you just go buy one?

• 1:33:26Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:33:26Joe Rogan?

  Did someone help you?

• 1:33:27Speaker 00

  No, I'd ask a few friends like Timothy White, I'd say, you know, what could I use if I'm running around? And, and so I took their advice and I started with a very simple camera that was autofocus and all compact. And I didn't have to change lenses. And that's one I did for a trip around the South China Seas on a boat trip. I just took this one camera in my backpack and hope for the best. And I, I had a, a show here at Leica in LA because it was a Leica camera, which was about 50 images of the trip that I did.

• 1:34:09Speaker 00

  So, but I, I, I think where my strength lies in photography is weirdly not on the technical side, obviously, but.

• 1:34:22Speaker 00

  Capturing that moment. Um, I tell you the one thing about the woman that's on the cover of the book. So that's she is now the uh princess of Monaco.

• 1:34:39Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:34:40Speaker 00

  Charlene, that uh originally Charlene Whitstock. And I'd met her a couple of times and I'd met Prince Albert a couple of times. And I got this call, literally, the day before they were getting married from a mutual friend saying, uh, Charlene loves your photography. Uh, she wants you to come and shoot the show. What? So, yeah, she wants you to come down to her, where she is getting ready for the, the civil wedding tomorrow, and she wants you to take pictures.

• 1:35:16Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:35:17Speaker 00

  Uh, I, I mean, you want to talk about anxiety and crapping yourself? Um, so I, excuse me.

• 1:35:25Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:10Joe Rogan?

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• 1:36:54Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:37Speaker 00

  I arrive at the hotel where she and all the maids of honors are. I'm sitting in the lobby. And I've got a backpack and one camera. And I've tried to dress myself up a little bit. I don't know what's going to happen. I had to go through several layers of security, you know, roadblocks and all this to get there, which was nerve wracking to say the least, anyway. And then the likes of Patrick de Marchelier, you know, one of the best photographers in the world, walks in with, you know, the suitcase trolleys, you know, those ones at the hotel, the big ones on wheels with all his equipment on.

• 1:38:22Speaker 00

  Three or four trolleys and there's, "I've got a backpack." You know?

• 1:38:29Speaker 00

  Anyway, I go upstairs. I'm placed in front of her in a room, probably about similar to this size. And she's sitting there completely blanked out in front of the mirror with the hairdresser, the hairdresser's assistant and their assistant, the makeup artist, the makeup artist's assistant.

• 1:38:51Joe Rogan?

  Is that you?

• 1:38:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's me, yeah.

• 1:38:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:38:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, so I'm in the book a few times. That'll be a questionnaire at one. That'll be a quiz at one point. How many times am I in the book? I don't even know myself, to be honest. But I, so I, I sit next to her and you've got all these people, twenty people in a room this size, doing things, trying to get her ready, ten minutes before she's getting married. And they put me on this little poof next to her. I'm sitting next to her and she's, and I'm saying, are you okay? You know, well, should I just take pictures? She said, Jules, um, I'm not sure what to do. I don't know what to do. I'm going, what do you mean?

• 1:39:37Speaker 00

  You don't know what to do about the marriage or me taking pictures? I can't, you know, I couldn't. Right, right. She says, she had, no, no, Jules, I, you know, it's the photos. I, I said, listen, this is historic. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to record what's going to happen to you, you know, and exciting for me too, to be a part of that as a photographer. And so I said, listen, I'll keep out the way. I'm a fly on the wall, you know, I, I won't be anywhere on it. And I was thinking, how am I going to do this? How do I do this? And so I just start, I just let people get on and I'm taking pictures. And I get a, um,

• 1:40:22Speaker 00

  a message from Vogue, vogue.com, who want a photo from me the moment she's married. And I'm thinking, ah, okay, um, I'll just keep snapping away at whatever I do. And I watched the civil wedding and then I get, uh, get on my bike, go home and I start putting things up on my, on the screen. And I'm looking at pictures going, I've got fuck all, I've got shit. I can't, this, this looks like crap to me. And this happens to me every time, every fucking time. And I'm looking at the pictures going, they look terrible. They really, really look terrible. Blurred and fuck and this and that and badly positioned

• 1:41:06Speaker 00

  and I'm cursing myself and, um.

• 1:41:11Speaker 00

  Uh, the one thing that I remember that she said to me is that, look, whatever you do, don't let any picture have me uh drinking or smoking in it. And I went, oh, okay. And the one thing that Vogue said to me is we wanna see her smiling. And the one picture where she was smiling and uh uh she had champagne uh in her hand and she had a cigarette. I'm going, fuck's sake.

• 1:41:44Speaker 00

  So, okay, I was not a Photoshop kinda guy, but I managed to get rid of the cigarette. And I'm thinking, okay, how do I get, deal with the champagne shit?

• 1:41:54Speaker 00

  And then the one thing occurred to me, uh, I, I thought, okay, I'll, I'll do it, um, I'll, I'll, I'll desaturate it. Not black and white, but it'll have an, there'll be elements of tones. I'll make it, you know, so you can't see that it's champagne.

• 1:42:10Speaker 00

  And I did that and I cropped it in a certain way and I went, ah, that's it. Why didn't I think of this before? You know, nineteen thirties, forties, fifties, Princess Grace, black and white, old school. So then I turned every picture I had, black and white, uh, well, desaturated version, similar to black and white, of, of the whole collection I had of her. And it, uh, and cropped it in a way that it was like nineteen fifties magazines, you know, it's just certain angles and a different look and a different feel.

• 1:42:46Joe Rogan?

  Was she okay with the champagne being in the photo?

• 1:42:49Speaker 00

  Well, it was, it didn't look like champagne. It just looked like uh fizzy water. And because they, on the side, there had been bottles of fizzy water and still water. So I went, that's, that's cool. Uh, she had to give me the uh, the okay to do that, you know? When we decided that should be the cover of this book, you know, she, I had to get her approval. I mean, I already had approval for, you know, having her pictures in a collection or a, a box set, but not on the front cover of a book that may do well, you know?

• 1:43:26Joe Rogan?

  Have you ever been to Disneyland?

• 1:43:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, oh god.

• 1:43:29Joe Rogan?

  Do you know, uh, all the pictures of Walt Disney have his cigarette photoshopped out of his hand?

• 1:43:33Speaker 00

  No, I did not know that.

• 1:43:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, in every picture you see him like this.

• 1:43:37Speaker 00

  Is that so?

• 1:43:38Joe Rogan?

  See if you can find some of those pictures, because it's really interesting. Once you know that they photoshopped it, um, there's a guy that we've had as a tour there. Shout out to Flander. Awesome guy, works there. And he gave us this sort of history of Walt Disney.

• 1:43:53Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:43:53Joe Rogan?

  Walt Disney died of lung cancer.

• 1:43:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:43:55Joe Rogan?

  Which you would think it would be probably a good thing to have the cigarette so people could know, oh, that poor guy. That's what killed him. But instead, they've decided to whitewash it and Photoshop. So all of his photographs.

• 1:44:09Speaker 00

  That's too funny.

• 1:44:11Joe Rogan?

  Look at his fingers are always in a position where he would have a cigarette.

• 1:44:17Joe Rogan?

  All of them.

• 1:44:17Speaker 00

  That's so funny.

• 1:44:19Joe Rogan?

  And so, those, those real moments of him having a cigarette are lost forever.

• 1:44:24Speaker 00

  Whose idea was it to get rid of the cigarette?

• 1:44:26Joe Rogan?

  Disneyland. You know, Disneyland did not want. Yeah. I mean, let's see, there's a person, it says there. It says, "The action seemingly innocuous at first, but it's apparently a murky tribute to Walt Disney's smoking habits, with the company sidestepping around the reason as to why the icon pointed that way," writes HuffPost. "It's been long speculated about. The anonymous employee was informed by a lead that the strange gesture from the cast members at Disney Park is actually based on Walt's old smoking habit." So people do that two-finger gesture to each other?

• 1:44:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:44:58Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy. Allegedly began training employees to do the same thing. Part tribute to the great man, part rewriting history. So they tried to pretend that that thing that he was doing, like Tom Hanks when he played him. He did that thing with his finger. But it's all bullshit. It was a cigarette smoker. Like, like a constant cigarette smoker.

• 1:45:16Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, I was one of those.

• 1:45:17Joe Rogan?

  Is there any photos of him with a cigarette?

• 1:45:20Speaker 03

  You're talking about it in 2014.

• 1:45:21Joe Rogan?

  No, that's me. That's funny. Well, that's when I found out about it. That's when, uh, Flander gave us the tour.

• 1:45:27Speaker 03

  They stopped doing it then, right around then.

• 1:45:29Joe Rogan?

  Oh, god, I gotcha. I gotcha, bitch. I got them all to stop doing it. Because it's fucking stupid. Like, the guy smoked cigarettes. Yeah, smoking cigarettes is bad for you. He died from smoking cigarettes. You should probably let people know. It's, you're doing a disservice to the whole world.

• 1:45:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:45:46Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 1:45:47Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 1:45:47Joe Rogan?

  And also, it's... You know, it's a part of history in the fact that so many people were unaware of the dangers of smoking cigarettes all day. And it's so insanely addictive.

• 1:45:58Speaker 00

  I used to be an insane smoker.

• 1:46:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. How'd you quit?

• 1:46:01Speaker 00

  Cold turkey.

• 1:46:02Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:46:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'd be one of those guys that'd wake up at four in the morning and light up a cigarette and then go back to sleep.

• 1:46:09Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:46:10Speaker 00

  Or I'd take, uh, took about two or three packs out with me every evening.

• 1:46:16Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:46:17Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, because I knew half of the people would nick half of my cigarettes, so I wanted to have backup.

• 1:46:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:46:23Speaker 00

  Now, I, when the whole no smoking law came, you know, Italy was one of the first.

• 1:46:30Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:46:30Speaker 00

  And Ireland, yeah, it was, I think it was California that initiated it.

• 1:46:35Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:46:36Speaker 00

  And then Europe took it on board, and it was actually Italy and Ireland, and I was in both of those places. And it was extremely weird to go into any, especially in Italy, and

• 1:46:51Speaker 00

  Ireland in the pubs.

• 1:46:52Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:46:53Speaker 00

  And for it to be a smoke-free environment.

• 1:46:56Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 1:46:57Speaker 00

  Uh, that was just so weird because it was part of the norm of, back in the day, that you'd be in a cloud of stinky cigarette smoke.

• 1:47:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was-

• 1:47:07Speaker 00

  In any of those locations, everywhere.

• 1:47:10Joe Rogan?

  A norm at comedy clubs.

• 1:47:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:47:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I would go home from comedy clubs every night smelling like cigarettes, always.

• 1:47:15Speaker 00

  For sure.

• 1:47:16Joe Rogan?

  The whole audience would be smoking.

• 1:47:17Speaker 00

  And as a smoker, you don't think, you're not conscious of how other people, how you stink as well.

• 1:47:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:47:25Speaker 00

  Which, you know, um, because it was funny, I, when, when I quit cold turkey, uh, I did it, I did it because, um, I didn't want anybody to tell me I couldn't smoke. I was such a brat.

• 1:47:41Joe Rogan?

  That's why you quit cold turkey?

• 1:47:42Speaker 00

  I quit cold turkey because I wanted to be, I wanted to tell myself I couldn't smoke, not for you to tell me I couldn't smoke.

• 1:47:52Joe Rogan?

  How rough was it?

• 1:47:53Speaker 00

  Uh, that's what uh brought me down into a depression for a couple of years. Oh, yeah, because I, I, I, listen, I started smoking at the age of probably eleven or twelve. As part of my local gang, you know, that I used to be in as a kid. Um, that's what you did, you know, you nicked a cig, cig, ciggies from your parents and you'd found the back of the school and that was part of the initiation, you know, the part of growing up. So, um, and I loved it because for me, when I became uh noticed uh as uh

• 1:48:32Speaker 00

  as a musician, you know, I, again, with my anxiety and I was a very shy kid, very, very shy kid. Still can be at times depending on how I feel that day, but um

• 1:48:48Speaker 00

  um, I would, uh, yeah, I would, cigarette for me was my best friend, you know, I'd go to a bar and I'd be able to, I'd be the, you know, not the cool guy at the bar, but certainly that would be my way of not having to interact with people.

• 1:49:02Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:49:03Speaker 00

  You know, I'd just sit there and, you know, be a rocker and smoke my ciggy and down my Jack Daniels. And it's like, leave me the fuck alone, you know?

• 1:49:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:49:11Speaker 00

  Uh, unless I, you know, wanted, wanted to talk. So that was the groove back then. And then when I gave that up, you know, instantly, it was like, ah, shit, what do I do? How do I fill in that void? Well, I actually had to speak to people.

• 1:49:29Joe Rogan?

  Is that what caused the depression?

• 1:49:31Speaker 00

  Well, no, no, no, it was actually, I feel it was definitely a chemical thing because again, I, I was, I was smoking a couple of packs a day, you know? I loved smoking. Um, and the weird thing-

• 1:49:45Joe Rogan?

  Did you consider going back just to alleviate the depression?

• 1:49:48Speaker 00

  I, I was actually a, a business manager friend of mine at the time said, saw me at one stage and said, Jules, pick up a fucking cigarette, please. Seriously. And he said, you're, you're, you're gonna, you're gonna die the way you're going.

• 1:50:02Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Pick up a cigarette because you're gonna die without it.

• 1:50:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. That was literally his sentiment.

• 1:50:09Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:50:10Speaker 00

  And it was a few years where it was very, very dark and it was the cigarettes. No question about it.

• 1:50:15Joe Rogan?

  Did you try patches or gum?

• 1:50:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, I did all of that stuff.

• 1:50:18Joe Rogan?

  Did it help?

• 1:50:21Speaker 00

  Not really, you know, I I loved that deep inhale and.

• 1:50:27Joe Rogan?

  It's the delivery method, it's different than anything else.

• 1:50:30Speaker 00

  And the thing was, I would still challenge most good singing friends of mine.

• 1:50:39Speaker 00

  That I could um hold my breath or do um lengths in a swimming pool underwater. And hold my breath better than anybody else, which I was able to. And it's because I was such a deep, deep smoker. When I inhaled, I really, really inhaled.

• 1:51:00Joe Rogan?

  So it was like lung exercises?

• 1:51:02Speaker 00

  It literally, literally, and I, you know, I went, I remember going for my certain. Yeah, seriously, I I consider myself a shallow breather now in comparison. Except for when I go on these kind of power walks, you know.

• 1:51:16Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:51:17Speaker 00

  Trying to, trying to get it all in anymore. But yeah, I know, I bought a little apparatus, which I've, I still haven't. I've been procrastinating about it, but it's it's an exerciser that's like.

• 1:51:30Joe Rogan?

  I have one of those.

• 1:51:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, that to expand.

• 1:51:32Joe Rogan?

  O two trainer.

• 1:51:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, there you go. So I haven't done it yet.

• 1:51:35Joe Rogan?

  You put like little lenses on it or little.

• 1:51:36Speaker 00

  Well, you just change the inhalation uh volume.

• 1:51:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's less.

• 1:51:41Speaker 00

  And do it back and forth. And so you just train to.

• 1:51:45Joe Rogan?

  My friend Boss Rogan created one.

• 1:51:47Speaker 00

  Very good. I I I mean, I I know that they work. I just haven't gotten around to it. But, you know, that's.

• 1:51:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, just breathing exercises alone are great.

• 1:51:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:51:56Joe Rogan?

  You can achieve some very bizarre altered states of consciousness through breathing exercises.

• 1:52:00Speaker 00

  Well, when I was, I mean, I um, you know, the the covid experience was very, very different for very many people. And where I was in the in the Monaco in France.

• 1:52:17Speaker 00

  You weren't allowed to leave your house without written paperwork to the police that you were going out for one hour. And you could only go within one kilometer unless you were going to get groceries, where you could only go out for a limited amount of time. If you didn't have the paperwork with you, you'd be fined. So I, you know, I started doing, using quite a few apps to calm myself and take on deep breath and a deep focus because I felt trapped, especially as someone who loved walking, who loved biking, who loved exploring, all of that stuff, and I couldn't move.

• 1:53:01Speaker 00

  And here's the really annoying thing was that where I was was quite close to the sea, a couple of hundred yards away. But as I said, I could only be in a one kilometer circle from where I was. But that, half of that was in the sea. And, and so I could walk left and right to try and get five K in, back and forth, you know, at least five K to try and get a good walk in. But you weren't allowed on the beach, which was the most, to sit there and contemplate

• 1:53:45Speaker 00

  and breathe and just, you know, try and relax.

• 1:53:48Joe Rogan?

  One of the healthiest things you can do.

• 1:53:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, you couldn't, you weren't allowed to do that.

• 1:53:52Joe Rogan?

  Everyone lost their fucking mind. And it was really strange. In California, they were arresting people, the coast guard was arresting people for surfing.

• 1:54:02Speaker 00

  I know. It's the most insane. I remember going on my first.

• 1:54:10Speaker 00

  Power walker along a peninsula that's about fifteen minutes out of Monaco. And it's somewhere I go every once in a while. And it was a really quite blustery day and it's right along the coastline, rocks, high winds, the whole thing. And I'm walking along, power walking along, thinking, I'm finally free, I'm finally free. Good. Anyway, so along the path ahead of me about quarter of a mile, I see a number of bobbing heads. So, okay, and I wasn't wearing a mask. You had to wear a mask even when you're out power walking on your own.

• 1:54:51Joe Rogan?

  Because of science.

• 1:54:52Speaker 00

  Of course, genius. Well, you know, let's not get into that, but. Um, yeah, and um, so over the ridge they come. And, and I noticed that one of the person at the front is wearing a, a police hat.

• 1:55:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, great.

• 1:55:10Speaker 00

  And so, okay, oh shit, so I'm trying to scramble putting my mask on. And he's taking out, going for a run with a bunch of trainers, trainees, you know. Um, about eight, eight other people from the police force. And they're all gunned up and truncheoned and everything else. And the guy's going off on me in French saying, wear your fucking mask, you know, you should have. And I'm going, and I'm, and he says to me, you know, I understand a little bit, a, a, a good amount of French and I can speak a little bit, but I, he said, who are you with? And I'm, I'm looking around. There's nobody for half a mile anywhere near me.

• 1:55:55Speaker 00

  And he's asking me, who am I with? And I'm thinking, what's that about? This is the weirdest scenario. I'm in the middle of nowhere.

• 1:56:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:05Speaker 00

  On a rocky peninsula. And he's asking me who I'm with. And there's nobody. And, you know, to put my mask back on, otherwise I'd be in trouble.

• 1:56:18Speaker 00

  And it was just the most surreal, peculiar circumstance to be, you know.

• 1:56:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, you could have never imagined it before the pandemic. You could have never imagined a scenario where people would be that illogical. Wearing a mask outside, illogical.

• 1:56:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:56:33Joe Rogan?

  Not being able to go to the beach, illogical.

• 1:56:35Speaker 00

  I still love the fact that you see people sitting on their own in cars today, wearing a mask.

• 1:56:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Well, if you go to Los Angeles, my friend just went to a party. And he sent me a photograph. He's like, I'm at a Hollywood party. Everyone's wearing a fucking mask. These people are in a cult. Like, it's very, it's, first of all. If you haven't read the House, the five hundred page synopsis and how, what all went wrong with COVID. Is that everyone should read it, just to understand that the whole six feet distance, all that stuff is all made up. It's all bullshit.

• 1:57:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:57:10Joe Rogan?

  Masks don't work.

• 1:57:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:57:13Joe Rogan?

  They don't work unless you have like a face fitting mask. And even that, you're getting oxygen in the, the particle, like viral particles in the oxygen are smaller than vape particles.

• 1:57:28Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:57:28Joe Rogan?

  Like if you vape with one of those things on, then put it out. And then, or you take a big, deep breath, put the mask on, the vape will come right through the fucking mask.

• 1:57:36Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:57:37Joe Rogan?

  So will the virus.

• 1:57:38Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:57:38Joe Rogan?

  Like, this is not real. You're, you're pretending. And it's forced compliance, illogical forced compliance. Which was very disturbing. It was very disturbing to, for me to see how many people were reinforcing that too. How many people were yelling at other people? It gave people a wonderful opportunity to be assholes, where they could yell at people for not having a mask on. But outside?

• 1:58:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:58:03Joe Rogan?

  Like, really?

• 1:58:04Speaker 00

  No, the logic.

• 1:58:05Joe Rogan?

  It was out the window, but it was also really fascinating to watch human nature. The human nature of, uh, first of all, that people really do enjoy controlling people.

• 1:58:15Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:58:15Joe Rogan?

  They really do enjoy telling people what the rules are and punishing people who disobey the rules.

• 1:58:21Speaker 00

  Oh, yes.

• 1:58:21Joe Rogan?

  Even if they don't make any sense.

• 1:58:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:58:22Joe Rogan?

  And then also watching people comply, knowing it's illogical and, and being upset at everyone that points out that it's illogical, that it just doesn't make any sense. Like, you're the enemy, because you're not going along with it. You're making it harder for us. We have to get through this. Like, how, uh, is this real?

• 1:58:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:58:40Joe Rogan?

  Strange.

• 1:58:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, I, yeah, stay away from everybody. That's the, the only, only solution.

• 1:58:49Joe Rogan?

  Or go to a place, well, I came here. Well, they didn't embrace any of that. Like, I was in Los Angeles, which is like the, the most compliant place. Everybody was all in, all in on the, the, the public narrative that was being expressed in the mainstream media. All in on, you know, uh, everybody who denies it is an anti-science person and you're anti-this and anti-that and just get that vaccine and just get on board with this beautiful little thing we're gonna do. We're gonna get through this. Together, as long as everyone complies. And if you don't comply, and if your neighbors aren't complying, here's a number you can call. People started ratting out their neighbors.

• 1:59:26Speaker 00

  Nasty, nasty.

• 1:59:27Joe Rogan?

  It was like a, it was a program that they, the mayor of Los Angeles ran. Like, normally snitches get stitches.

• 1:59:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:59:33Joe Rogan?

  But this way, snitches get rewards. Like, they were giving them money. Giving people money to rat out their neighbors for having parties.

• 1:59:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's beyond messed up.

• 1:59:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's so strange. And it doesn't seem real. Like, my friend, Hassan-

• 1:59:45Speaker 00

  And people are eager as well to join that club.

• 1:59:48Joe Rogan?

  Eager, so happy they're part of it.

• 1:59:49Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:59:50Joe Rogan?

  My friend Hassan, um, found a pair of pants that he was in his apartment and he pulled out a mask out of the pocket. It's like, fuck, when was the last time I wore these?

• 1:59:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:59:59Joe Rogan?

  There's a mask. And when you see a mask, like, and you realize, like, I had a mask that was in my truck. That was in like one of the back little, little compartments on the side. I just happened to be sitting there. And I was cleaning the truck. I'm like, look at this fucking stupid thing. But just, this was just two years ago.

• 2:00:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:00:16Joe Rogan?

  You had to have these things if you wanted to get on a plane.

• 2:00:19Speaker 00

  Seems like a bad dream.

• 2:00:20Joe Rogan?

  It does. It's like Disney and the, the fucking, the cigarettes.

• 2:00:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:00:24Joe Rogan?

  Like, are they gonna Photoshop out all these people's masks in the picture?

• 2:00:27Speaker 00

  It's all a bit surreal. I mean-

• 2:00:29Joe Rogan?

  So strange.

• 2:00:29Speaker 00

  It really is. It's all a bit odd.

• 2:00:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, hopefully.

• 2:00:32Speaker 00

  I I still don't get it. I don't get any of it.

• 2:00:35Joe Rogan?

  You shouldn't. Hopefully, these viruses.

• 2:00:38Speaker 00

  No, especially those.

• 2:00:39Joe Rogan?

  At least don't wind up becoming the next one. I used to think there's no way that people would want that to happen. I'm not so sure anymore.

• 2:00:48Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:00:49Joe Rogan?

  After this last go around, I'm like, boy, there might be like sinister factors at work here that I don't.

• 2:00:54Speaker 00

  Oh, without question.

• 2:00:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:57Speaker 00

  I'm sure of, sure of that.

• 2:00:59Joe Rogan?

  And I was unwilling to ever think that way before. I was like, come on, that's stupid. No one's that evil.

• 2:01:05Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:01:05Joe Rogan?

  No one would do that just for profit. And now I'm like, I don't know.

• 2:01:09Speaker 00

  Of course they are.

• 2:01:10Joe Rogan?

  They probably would.

• 2:01:11Speaker 00

  Oh, they would.

• 2:01:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:12Speaker 00

  They would, no question.

• 2:01:14Joe Rogan?

  So strange. So strange. And then, you know, that, I think, the frustration of the overcomplicated, overregulated, overcontrolled world is probably what accentuates the experience of you being in South America with fire, looking at the stars.

• 2:01:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:01:35Joe Rogan?

  You know, because there's a purity to that, that especially no phones, no computer, no screens, no nothing. Just human beings enjoying an experience on the planet.

• 2:01:46Speaker 00

  It's funny because I'm in the process of moving. I mean, I still have my base in Monaco, but the the place, the little place I had outside. I I I'm, a lot of my later teenage years were, uh, mum, uh, remarried a couple of times, but we were, we were in, uh, North Wales. I don't know if you're familiar with North Wales or Wales in general.

• 2:02:16Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:02:16Speaker 00

  It's mountains, you know, sheep and mountains. And, uh, so, um.

• 2:02:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I, we lived in farmland, on farmland, and I used to work on a farm too. So I, I loved, and that's where I actually learned how to ride a motorbike, you know, on farmland and through rivers and enduros and stuff like that.

• 2:02:44Speaker 00

  And so I've always loved that element of, of countryside. I always liked the, the excitement of a city and the people and the energy, but there's also that, that other side of peace and quiet and bird song and

• 2:03:00Joe Rogan?

  Balance.

• 2:03:01Speaker 00

  Running water. Yeah, yeah. And so I

• 2:03:03Joe Rogan?

  The key is like a little bit of New York City, a little bit of mountains.

• 2:03:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:03:06Joe Rogan?

  That's, that's the key to life.

• 2:03:07Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I, I'm in the process of, I've just, and I hate this terminology, forever home. But I, I, I certainly think it's a place that I'll be for a while.

• 2:03:19Joe Rogan?

  Do you hate the terminology of home?

• 2:03:21Speaker 00

  No, the forever.

• 2:03:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:03:24Speaker 00

  This is gonna be my forever home.

• 2:03:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:03:27Speaker 00

  So.

• 2:03:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I like moving. I really enjoyed moving here. I like getting up and just being in a new place.

• 2:03:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:03:34Joe Rogan?

  I think it's good for the brain.

• 2:03:36Speaker 00

  I think, I, I, I'd been at the same place for over twenty six years through some very good things, but some pretty dark moments as well, whether that's relationships or friendships and things like that. And I, I finally decided a few years ago, I, I need a change.

• 2:03:54Joe Rogan?

  Where you going?

• 2:03:55Speaker 00

  I, I'm, I'm very close by. I mean, I'm literally fifteen minutes away, but it's just a different environment, up in the mountains.

• 2:04:03Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:04:03Speaker 00

  Uh, surrounded by, you know, um, beautiful old oak trees and walking paths. And I mean, I know I sound like I'm going, turning old all of a sudden.

• 2:04:16Joe Rogan?

  No, you sound like someone who appreciates beautiful things.

• 2:04:19Speaker 00

  I just want, I, you know, and the funny thing is when I went to see this place for the first time, my shoulders just dropped.

• 2:04:29Speaker 00

  I just.

• 2:04:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:04:30Speaker 00

  And it was, I don't wanna leave here. You know, I, I, I, you know, and, and the rest of the world seemed very alien after walking onto this property. I just went, okay, a couple of acres of land, surrounded by beautiful old trees and peace and quiet and.

• 2:04:51Joe Rogan?

  I have thoughts on that. I think that nature is a vitamin that we don't know we need.

• 2:04:55Speaker 00

  Absolutely. No question about it.

• 2:04:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you get it and then you're filled up and you're like, oh, this is what I was missing.

• 2:05:02Speaker 00

  I mean, that also the whole, you know, tree hugging, earthing thing.

• 2:05:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's real.

• 2:05:06Speaker 00

  I, I believe absolutely one hundred percent.

• 2:05:09Joe Rogan?

  It's real. It's real. You feel better.

• 2:05:11Speaker 00

  I mean, scienti- scientifically proven that it.

• 2:05:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we have a connection to earth that's been muted by our shoes.

• 2:05:19Speaker 00

  Correct. This is very, very true.

• 2:05:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's weird. It's weird to think that way, but it's absolutely correct.

• 2:05:25Speaker 00

  You know, you can, well, I, I'm, and I, I have done this too, that you can get earthing sheets.

• 2:05:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:33Speaker 00

  That you can sleep on. I don't know. I, you know, I, I sleep on one. I don't know if it works or not.

• 2:05:39Joe Rogan?

  Probably does something.

• 2:05:40Speaker 00

  But, yeah, but what? That's the.

• 2:05:42Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. Just get outside.

• 2:05:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:05:45Joe Rogan?

  I think get outside's the move. And if you can get outside barefoot, it's even better.

• 2:05:48Speaker 00

  This is very, very true.

• 2:05:50Joe Rogan?

  The other day I was playing with my dog in the backyard and I was throwing the ball for him and he just decided, sometimes, he's kinda lazy. Sometimes he just decides to lay down, so I just sat down with him. And it was this amazing moment of him just wagging his tail. You know, me petting him and just sitting in the yard, just trees and birds and just, it's beautiful.

• 2:06:09Speaker 00

  That's it.

• 2:06:10Joe Rogan?

  It was a beautiful, peaceful moment that I just experienced with my dog.

• 2:06:14Speaker 00

  That's it.

• 2:06:14Joe Rogan?

  Two of us chilling.

• 2:06:15Speaker 00

  That's it. Really, really.

• 2:06:18Joe Rogan?

  It was a beautiful moment. I was thinking in that, in that time, like, this is so simple. It's just a simple, beautiful moment. And, you know, if you try to explain it to people, most people are probably not gonna get it. Okay, yeah, you're new dog, you love your dog. Like, nah, it's not it.

• 2:06:32Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:06:33Joe Rogan?

  It's like, it was just life. It was just like this moment of life, just recognizing and also not thinking about anything else, which is also beautiful. Not thinking about Gaza, not thinking about Ukraine.

• 2:06:45Speaker 00

  It's about that little moment of appreciation here and now. Thank you very much. And how, how that can be beyond beneficial to you on.

• 2:06:56Joe Rogan?

  But then like even explaining that unfortunately has been co-opted by the term mindfulness, which is so often used by grifters and like fake gurus and dorks and just, it's one of those words that you say and you're like, ugh, mindfulness. Ugh, I hate saying it. I'm a spiritual person. Oh, shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up. I can't take it. You know, it's like,

• 2:07:21Speaker 00

  I get it.

• 2:07:22Joe Rogan?

  But those terms are valuable. It's like the term God. It's like, it's a valuable term. Love is a valuable term.

• 2:07:28Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:07:28Joe Rogan?

  But so often they just get ruined just by insincerity or just by people who use it as a way to define themselves.

• 2:07:37Speaker 00

  Hijacked. They've been hijacked.

• 2:07:40Joe Rogan?

  Hijacked. Yeah, that's it.

• 2:07:42Speaker 00

  For, yeah, which is very sad actually because it just.

• 2:07:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we can take it back.

• 2:07:47Speaker 00

  Probably.

• 2:07:48Joe Rogan?

  We can take it back from those hijackers. Fuck them.

• 2:07:52Speaker 00

  I'm in.

• 2:07:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, um, there's, uh, do you know who Alex Gray is?

• 2:07:58Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:07:59Joe Rogan?

  Alex Gray is a visionary artist. He does a lot of like very, very intricate psychedelic pieces that are like iconic. He's very famous in like the psychedelic world. His, his stuff is really, really beautiful.

• 2:08:15Speaker 00

  I've seen.

• 2:08:15Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure you have. He's very, very famous.

• 2:08:17Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:08:18Joe Rogan?

  But, um, we were talking about this and he said that he took the, the, the term God back. Cause he's like, I think the term God has been co-opted by this idea of these totalitarian religions that impose very strict rules and dogma on people. And he's like, I don't think we should stop using that word just because of that. And I think we can kind of take that word back.

• 2:08:43Speaker 00

  It would be good to.

• 2:08:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, I think he kind of has. He actually has a church.

• 2:08:49Speaker 00

  Really now?

• 2:08:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like he had to go through a whole thing to acquire, you know, tax exempt status, but his church is this insane building that is all 3D printed with his type of psychedelic artwork. So it looks like some insane, like magical spiritual retreat that you would find somewhere. Like, see if we can find, it's called a chapel of sacred mirrors.

• 2:09:15Speaker 00

  Where is this?

• 2:09:16Joe Rogan?

  Upstate New York.

• 2:09:17Speaker 00

  Upstate New York, really?

• 2:09:18Joe Rogan?

  So it's not that far from the city. You can get there fairly quickly. And it's, you know, a completely different world. And he's got this church up there that's filled with his insane artwork. But this church itself is a piece of artwork, like the outside of it, the way, you know, he has a lot of these images of these faces that are like multiple, like multiple sides of faces all connected together. And this is like this.

• 2:09:46Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 2:09:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So this is the outside of his building. It's really incredible.

• 2:09:53Joe Rogan?

  That's the building.

• 2:09:54Speaker 00

  Whoa.

• 2:09:54Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that amazing? So the building is very, very much like his type of tryptamine inspired art, where like, you know, have you all these third eyes, like in a fractal form, the geometric pattern on the roof and everything is like that. It's really amazing. Phenomenal. And, you know, he's been working on it forever.

• 2:10:16Speaker 00

  What is, is he professing anything?

• 2:10:20Joe Rogan?

  I don't know what his, keep phone.

• 2:10:23Speaker 00

  Is there an order as such? I mean, uh?

• 2:10:26Joe Rogan?

  That's Alex when he was very young.

• 2:10:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:10:28Joe Rogan?

  Um, but he's been, you know, in the sort of psychedelic space and psychedelic art space forever. And he had this incredible place in New York City. And then he decided to do this whole church. Just click it right there and just like play it out.

• 2:10:45Speaker 03

  I don't really know what the video is.

• 2:10:47Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:10:47Speaker 03

  It's 20 minutes long.

• 2:10:48Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, I see.

• 2:10:52Joe Rogan?

  So a lot of his, so that's his wife.

• 2:10:55Speaker 00

  Is this derived from?

• 2:10:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:58Speaker 00

  Like acid and magic mushrooms?

• 2:11:01Joe Rogan?

  It says it right there, it comes out of the psychedelic experience.

• 2:11:04Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:11:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, he's been a long time proponent of psychedelics. Just a very, very interesting guy and his artwork is just incredible. Like really, but like probably the most accurate encapsulation of these experiences in, you know, in an artistic form. Really wild stuff.

• 2:11:29Joe Rogan?

  And again, this is, you know, he's, the way he's got it set up now, he's in the woods. So he's in this beautiful, like rural area. And then he's got this incredible chapel that's up there. So it's pretty fucking cool.

• 2:11:46Speaker 00

  Well, I'm, I'm certainly a believer in other realms that we don't see on a daily basis.

• 2:11:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:57Speaker 00

  I mean, I've had, I've had a few experiences that were, whether, whether that's a dream within a dream or whether it's reality, I don't actually know.

• 2:12:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, one of the things that I've talked to about, uh, with some pretty insanely brilliant people is quantum computing.

• 2:12:14Speaker 00

  Oh, yes.

• 2:12:15Joe Rogan?

  And this new Google quantum computer that can do, essentially, the way a quantum computer works, a, a, a problem that would take thousands of years.

• 2:12:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:12:26Joe Rogan?

  For every computer on earth to solve.

• 2:12:30Speaker 00

  I've read that.

• 2:12:30Joe Rogan?

  It can solve in a second.

• 2:12:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:12:32Joe Rogan?

  Something that can take more years than you literally can understand. It can be solved in 15 minutes.

• 2:12:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've, I've read that.

• 2:12:41Joe Rogan?

  It's insane and this is where it gets really weird. The way it was explained to me, and we should have to Google how quantum computers work and why people connect them to the multiverse, so I don't fuck this up. But the idea is that they're pulling answers from different universes simultaneously. They don't even completely understand how this is working.

• 2:13:10Joe Rogan?

  But the amount of power in computing is incomprehensible. Incomprehensible.

• 2:13:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:13:18Joe Rogan?

  Like, you're only looking at it, and there's numbers, you could write all those numbers out, but your brain's not capable of grasping really what's going on. And it's probably the biggest breakthrough technologically in human history by a long stretch. And it's all happening without most people even being aware of what the implications are. So, see if you can Google an explanation of how quantum computers work. Was it Marc Andreessen that was explaining to us that it's pulling from different universes?

• 2:13:50Speaker 03

  No, no, that is being talked about in the wording of the Willow description.

• 2:13:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:13:55Speaker 03

  But I also, just to add, when I was reading about this, they said that these benchmark numbers are coming off of Google's own data. Like, they're the ones that set like the scale of

• 2:14:06Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:14:07Speaker 03

  What, some of the quantum

• 2:14:09Joe Rogan?

  Are you skeptical? Is that what you're saying?

• 2:14:10Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm just, no, no, no.

• 2:14:11Joe Rogan?

  Are you calling bullshit on Google?

• 2:14:13Speaker 03

  No, not at all, not at all, not at all. No, no, I'm just a grain of salt, like, just to say that, like, except, I think they use, uh, tillions is the number or something like that. That no one even can grasp that.

• 2:14:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:23Speaker 03

  That's just based, but that's a number based off of their formula, too.

• 2:14:27Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:14:27Speaker 03

  That's all.

• 2:14:27Joe Rogan?

  Right. What is the, the definition of how it works? The, the way it pulls from multi, multi-universes?

• 2:14:34Speaker 03

  I think, the, I'm trying to find it, uh, but I think the understanding I got from it was, it's just too powerful to get from our universe alone. You'd have to have more, more than one. And I don't like, that's just

• 2:14:46Joe Rogan?

  Like, what does that mean?

• 2:14:47Speaker 03

  I don't understand.

• 2:14:49Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. What does that mean? Right, what, what is that thing that they have? And if you've ever seen the chip itself, the chip itself is very small.

• 2:14:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14:57Joe Rogan?

  It's like the size of a saltine cracker.

• 2:14:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14:59Joe Rogan?

  And then, this entire mechanism around it is just the insane amount of cooling. Okay. Google's quantum AI founder said the performance gains lead, lend, excuse me, the performance gains lends credence to the idea that we live in a multiverse. The idea is that Willow might be communicating with parallel universes to finish calculations faster.

• 2:15:25Joe Rogan?

  Like, what, what does that mean? The announcement led Google's already high stock price to surge, which isn't that shocking, but perhaps most surprisingly for us laypeople that Google's quantum AI founder and lead Harmut Nevin said that the chip's performance lends credence to the notion that quantum computation occurs in many parallel universes, in line with the idea that we live in a multiverse. And then it says, excuse me? This obviously has caused a bit of a stir and isn't, and it isn't exactly clear on how he made that leap. It sounds a bit like something out of a sci-fi movie, and I'm definitely not going to pretend I'm an expert, but it's worth pointing out that Google is very much still in the theoretical research phase of this journey.

• 2:16:10Joe Rogan?

  This is very weird stuff. An evolving scientific field that even people working on it don't fully understand. What? Okay, here, here's what is a quantum computer. Let's explain this. The computer we use every day and have been iterating on for the past several decades are known, are what is known as a classical computer. Essentially, a classical computer utilizes binary as its language of choice. A bit in the smallest unit of data that a computer can store and process is like a light switch. Each bit can only be in a single state at a time, on or off, which is represented by zero or one. Computers track data based on the language of bits.

• 2:16:54Joe Rogan?

  Literally, anything our computers do is based on a network of on/off switches sending a particular signal. A quantum computer is a bit different. If you're familiar with the concept of superposition or Schrodinger's cat, this won't be too far of a stretch, but a quantum bit or qubit is capable of representing the potential of multiple states at once. Rather than only recording a one or a zero, it records both because it can be both. This allows a chip like Willow, which has 105 qubits, to perform incredibly complicated analytics in a fraction of the time a classical computer could. And how does it work? So it's boiled down to a very small example. If you have two bits which can return a value of one or zero,

• 2:17:38Joe Rogan?

  there are four potential states that it can be recorded. Zero, zero, zero, one, one, one, and one, zero. If each of these states takes one second to record, it'd take a classical computer four seconds to record every position permutation, every possible permutation. A quantum computer made up of two qubits, however, would be able to send to record the potential of each qubit at once, meaning it could record all four positions, all four possible states in one second. The real power here is achieved when you add a much higher number of qubits together and try to record every possible state. Once again, something that would take a classical computer far longer can be achieved quickly because a quantum computer can record a number of potential states at once

• 2:18:23Joe Rogan?

  rather than one of a time. Okay, we basically don't know what the fuck we're saying here. This is just too weird. That's, okay, so this is what it is. One of the world's most advanced classical computers. Um, okay, here it is with the, this, this, this problem. So AI's founder and lead Hartmut Nevin said that the new chip had performed a purposefully complicated exercise called a random circuit sampling benchmark in five minutes. One of the world's most advanced classical supercomputers, on the other hand, it would take ten and then three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros, three zeros. Years to perform the same exercise. That's ten septillion years,

• 2:19:08Joe Rogan?

  which exceeds known time scales in physics and vastly exceeds the age of the universe. So it can do more time than vastly exceeds the entire age of the universe, and it can do it in five minutes. And the reason it could achieve such a monumental improvement in calculating capacity is because Willow is made up of 105 qubits and can track the potential of each of those at once, allowing it to record potential data much faster and come to the right answer sooner. So like, what is happening?

• 2:19:42Speaker 00

  That's too much information.

• 2:19:44Joe Rogan?

  What is? What do you mean?

• 2:19:45Speaker 00

  I get it, but I don't get it.

• 2:19:47Joe Rogan?

  What I don't get, how does that prove the multiverse? Or provide evidence that the multiverse is real? Like, and that it's getting it from parallel universes? Like, what are we even saying here?

• 2:19:59Speaker 00

  But it couldn't come up with those answers within the allotted time span. That's...

• 2:20:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. What?

• 2:20:10Speaker 00

  Fuck, I can't even, I can't even explain. I mean, funnily enough, this is, my brother's into all of this stuff. Sean, he's...

• 2:20:18Joe Rogan?

  In simpler language...

• 2:20:19Speaker 00

  He would probably be able to explain it to you, Sean.

• 2:20:23Joe Rogan?

  Probably. Well, he would give it a shot.

• 2:20:25Speaker 00

  He would, certainly.

• 2:20:26Joe Rogan?

  I think he was the one that was probably explaining it to us. "In simpler language, Willow is doing one calculation while an unknown number of Willows in other universes, parallel to our own, are doing their own calculations and they are sharing that data to avoid needing to individually do every possible calculation to finish the equation." What the fuck does that mean? How are they sharing data between universes? "I don't know," asked Nevin.

• 2:20:56Joe Rogan?

  "Remember, this is all theoretical and doesn't prove anything, but Nevin is saying that the fact that a chip can outperform, outperform our best supercomputers by such a wide margin means that it might have broken Newton's theory of physics."

• 2:21:11Joe Rogan?

  Yo. What does it say under that, Jamie? What does this mean for me? Keep that going? Put that back on? Scroll up a little bit? It's right here. Okay, this is what I wanted to look at. "At this point, it's an exciting look what computing might take one day, but it isn't something you're gonna see in your next Pixel phone. Quantum chips, you'd be isolated in incredibly specific chambers." Yeah, this is the thing. "It's cooler than, it has to be cool to a point where it's colder than outer space, sealed away from any possible signals such as microwaves, radiation, radio signals, etc. for fear of that noise leading to potential mistakes, and have specific signals delivered by purpose-built wires." Who figured this out? Where are those eggheads? Jesus Christ.

• 2:21:53Speaker 00

  How did they even come up with that if that has to be the case? I don't.

• 2:21:57Joe Rogan?

  How did they figure out that you have to do that? All of it?

• 2:22:01Speaker 00

  That's, that's just brain damage.

• 2:22:03Joe Rogan?

  That's one of the most humbling things that I've found about doing this podcast is realizing how genuinely dumb we are in comparison to the amount of information that's available.

• 2:22:12Speaker 00

  No question.

• 2:22:13Joe Rogan?

  And, and dumb, and I'm saying is like not just uninformed, but incapable, even if given the information of grasping exactly what these apex minds are thinking and working on right now, along with at the same time, people just living in Rovello, just having an espresso and a cigarette and getting a slice of pizza.

• 2:22:38Speaker 00

  Maybe they realize and they just say, fuck it.

• 2:22:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But it seems like the human race desires all things. The human race desires people like yourself who enjoy photography and travel and this beautiful experience of life, but it also sort of requires people to be at this bizarre cutting edge of science where it seems to be violating the known laws of physics. Like all those things.

• 2:23:06Speaker 00

  It, it hurts my brain. I, I, I, um, I, I mean, I'd love to know more.

• 2:23:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, just think about what we're doing right now. Just think about what we're doing.

• 2:23:15Speaker 00

  I still don't get how a TV works. Or, or the radio. I'm still not.

• 2:23:20Joe Rogan?

  How's this work?

• 2:23:21Speaker 00

  I'm still back there.

• 2:23:22Joe Rogan?

  What, what makes this louder? What makes the microphone carry our voice? What, how is this being encoded into like a form that's going to be instantaneously delivered to millions of people? So millions of people are hearing this right now. Like as it gets to them, not right, right now, but once it gets released, the millions of people that are hearing this are getting it through the sky.

• 2:23:43Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:23:43Joe Rogan?

  On their phone.

• 2:23:44Speaker 00

  I resign.

• 2:23:48Speaker 00

  I truly resign on that level. I can't, I can't, it doesn't.

• 2:23:53Joe Rogan?

  No, I can't either, but it's pretty amazing. It's pretty amazing. It's an amazing time to be alive.

• 2:23:59Speaker 00

  Fascinated by every day and that's why with

• 2:24:04Speaker 00

  subjects that are happening with AI right now, I find massively intriguing because there is an element to that that may allow me to understand a great deal more, you know, before it's too late.

• 2:24:17Joe Rogan?

  I think we're the last of the regular people.

• 2:24:20Speaker 00

  It's quite possible.

• 2:24:20Joe Rogan?

  I think this, this experience that we're, we're having, this experience that you're having like on a motorcycle with no signal, just driving through the countryside, like just being alive. I think we're the last of those people. I think what's next.

• 2:24:34Speaker 00

  Even that sounds like a dream though.

• 2:24:36Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 2:24:37Speaker 00

  I mean, just

• 2:24:39Speaker 00

  the whole concept of that is dream worthy. Um, yeah, I, I mean, I, I have a number of theories on who we are and where we came from and

• 2:24:51Joe Rogan?

  What are your theories?

• 2:24:52Speaker 00

  UFOs.

• 2:24:53Joe Rogan?

  What do you think?

• 2:24:55Speaker 00

  Well, I, you know, to some degree, I'd always felt even as a, as a young kid, that, that UFOs were us coming back for history lessons.

• 2:25:05Speaker 00

  Basically, and that they, the, the vehicles were driven by our minds anyway.

• 2:25:17Speaker 00

  But I, I mean, I've, I've seen, as dad had also seen a UFO, I've clearly seen a UFO.

• 2:25:24Joe Rogan?

  What'd you say?

• 2:25:25Speaker 00

  I was actually, here's the weird thing. I was actually on my way to, I think, visit dad in New York. I think it was New York, which is where he'd seen one on the Upper East Side in an apartment that I visited. I went to see him at. He's standing on the roof of this apartment where he, he was living at the time and yeah, he, he, it's on film. He clearly says, this thing came along. I could tell you exactly what it looked like. Went up the Hudson, went under the bridge and then zapped off. My experience, I've had two experiences, but the, the most profound was

• 2:26:08Speaker 00

  funnily enough, was one of those flights on good old TWA.

• 2:26:14Speaker 00

  And I was in the front part of the plane. And I'd I was had been given, because I was quite young, um, maybe. Anywhere between eight and ten, I don't know, eleven, maybe. And I was going to see dad for for one of the first times in the US. And the guy that was escorting me over. Uh, gave me a one of those, first time I'd seen them, one of those books that had blank pages. I thought, wow, those are weird, you know, I quite unusual, I'd never seen them over in England before, just these.

• 2:26:56Speaker 00

  Hardback, black covered books with nothing inside, so.

• 2:27:02Speaker 00

  I had one of those in the coloring set, so I was, I guess, relatively young.

• 2:27:08Speaker 00

  Everybody had watched the movie, everybody had gone to sleep. I was staring out the bloody window as I normally do. And I was in front of the wing on the right hand side.

• 2:27:22Speaker 00

  And I'm just staring out at the stars, literally. And I kid you not, um.

• 2:27:31Speaker 00

  All of a sudden, I I I I see your archetypal UFO with the lights around. Uh, light on top, it was silver, uh, or, you know, have a reflective, uh, metal. Um, with white lights all the right pulsating white lights all the way around. It stayed there, I can't tell you how long.

• 2:27:57Joe Rogan?

  How far away from the plane was it?

• 2:27:58Speaker 00

  It was right there, it was.

• 2:28:02Speaker 00

  Uh, fifty feet.

• 2:28:05Joe Rogan?

  Fifty feet from the wing of the plane?

• 2:28:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, in front of the wing of the plane.

• 2:28:08Joe Rogan?

  Did anybody else notice?

• 2:28:09Speaker 00

  Nobody else was there, everybody else was asleep, um. Uh, there was no stewardesses, there was no, nobody was around.

• 2:28:17Joe Rogan?

  What about the pilots?

• 2:28:19Speaker 00

  I don't, that I don't know, all I know is what I saw.

• 2:28:22Joe Rogan?

  God, I would want to ask them.

• 2:28:24Speaker 00

  I I just, I guess I was kind of freaked out or just okay with it, I don't, I can't even.

• 2:28:29Joe Rogan?

  How old were you at the time?

• 2:28:33Speaker 00

  Okay, any, you know, eight, nine, ten, eleven, something like that.

• 2:28:37Joe Rogan?

  And how big do you think it was?

• 2:28:42Speaker 00

  I would say it seemed about the radius would be about the width of this room.

• 2:28:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:28:50Speaker 00

  But what happened was, so I watched it for a few seconds, but I knew we were going along at somewhere in between three and 500 miles an hour. I think the old big old 747s used to reach that kind of speed. And it just started doing this.

• 2:29:14Speaker 00

  Going up at the same speed. And I'm watching it through the window going up and over. And there was nobody in the seats on the other side. And so I ran to the other side and was at the window like this. And I was at a seat or two in front of where I actually wasn't here. And it came down the other side. This is on my mother's life. I came down on the other side. And sort of pitched itself there for a few seconds. Proceeded to move forward.

• 2:29:55Speaker 00

  What looked like relatively quite slow and then literally just went and disappeared it forward. And that was there. And that was at sunrise, literally just turning to sunrise because I actually, the book I had, I drew the whole thing. And the light and what it looked like.

• 2:30:17Joe Rogan?

  Do you still have those drawings?

• 2:30:19Speaker 00

  Okay, no.

• 2:30:20Joe Rogan?

  Damn.

• 2:30:21Speaker 00

  Tell me about it. I don't know what happened to that, but

• 2:30:26Speaker 00

  as clear as day, as clear as day on my life, my mother's life.

• 2:30:31Joe Rogan?

  Did you, and this is gonna sound crazy, did you have a sense that that was for you?

• 2:30:42Joe Rogan?

  That you weren't just seeing something, but that maybe that was for you?

• 2:30:47Speaker 00

  I could have taken that

• 2:30:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:49Speaker 00

  angle.

• 2:30:52Joe Rogan?

  Like.

• 2:30:53Speaker 00

  I mean, there's been moments in in my life, certainly, that I felt things have happened at a particular time for me to notice things.

• 2:31:05Speaker 00

  That it was related to my life experience. I mean, I could, half of the things, I couldn't tell you what they were, but I mean, white feather was an example of that.

• 2:31:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:31:19Speaker 00

  Where for me, that was, that was undoubtedly a sign

• 2:31:26Speaker 00

  of relevant sign that made me certainly feel that

• 2:31:32Speaker 00

  and I'd had other experiences, that that was a real connection, a real message.

• 2:31:39Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:31:40Speaker 00

  Indirectly.

• 2:31:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, the white, the white feather is so profound. It's so, it's so intensely on the nose that it's very difficult to dismiss. And I know there's a lot of like, hyper rational people that would like to dismiss it. They're like, they are, it's just, it's a coincidence, it's this and that. My question is, are you sure? Are you sure? You know? I don't think we are. I think this concept of the divine, this concept of being something else has existed throughout the entirety of human beings.

• 2:32:17Speaker 00

  There's all kinds of stuff going on. I mean, I've, I've seen.

• 2:32:23Speaker 00

  I was invited to the location where I was staying.

• 2:32:31Speaker 00

  And I, I had this experience where I saw quite clearly, I was, I was on my own again, of course. And I was looking out to the sea. This was down in Mexico. And

• 2:32:48Speaker 00

  and I was literally just kind of drifting off. And I, without question, at least I believe so, I saw to me, what looked like Mayan Indians, see through, dancing around a fire.

• 2:33:07Speaker 00

  And I went, what the fuck? I mean, I really uh kind of got a little scared. I went, wha- what am I seeing? How am I seeing this? Why?

• 2:33:20Speaker 00

  Anyway, it was all a bit weird. And at the breakfast table the next day, and I'd never been to this place before I was invited down as a guest. And I, and the host, hostess said, uh, you know, how did you sleep? Is everything all right? Did you? I said, well, I don't wanna say anything, but um, I think I saw some uh see-through Mayan Indians last night. Oh, you didn't know that this was uh built on a Mayan Indian burial ground? I said, shut the front door. I said, she said, uh, uh, that freaked me out firstly. And then, then, of course, she, she comes back into the room

• 2:34:04Speaker 00

  with a tray of artifacts, you know, uh, uh, spearheads and a few other things and other tools that they use. But then she came, she did one better. She came, goes and brings in a book that's uh a very, very thick book with the generations of Mayan and civilizations that have been there before. And so she says, you know, have a look. And I'm flipping through the books, the book, and I see the exact headdress and skirt that they were wearing and the exact colors of those headdresses.

• 2:34:49Speaker 00

  It was two-tone, it was like an earth color and a uh sky blue, kind of that, that color. And that's uh, uh, uh, in, in a particular um arrangement on their headdresses and on their, on, on the skirts. And uh, and I said, that's them. And they said, oh, yeah, that would, that was the particular era and that's uh where we got, where the, where the property was built on. And uh, and I just went, well, okay. All right, that was that just, to me, I'm sorry, that just says between, between the, between that and the white feather.

• 2:35:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, and there's one or two other incidences. I just went, yeah, there's so much more shit that we don't know.

• 2:35:39Joe Rogan?

  There's something else.

• 2:35:40Speaker 00

  That lives and breathes and exists around. And there was something written the other day also. Whether it's today or yesterday, saying that, you know, our ears and our eyes can only see so much.

• 2:35:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:35:54Speaker 00

  You know, humans.

• 2:35:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:35:56Speaker 00

  That there exists so much more that we don't have a clue about.

• 2:36:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:36:00Speaker 00

  So I'm just going, okay, there's, there's, there's, if only.

• 2:36:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, you have to go back to the idea that eyes didn't exist at one point in time. There were single-celled organisms.

• 2:36:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:36:11Joe Rogan?

  Right? And so they became multicelled organisms and then they developed simultaneous eyesight in the ocean and on land. And then this idea that your eyes allow you to see, so therefore you're seeing everything is kind of silly. Because before the eyes existed, there was no perception, not using light. There was no way you could see things.

• 2:36:35Speaker 00

  Hmm, yeah.

• 2:36:36Joe Rogan?

  So why would we assume that this is all that the senses could potentially interact with? That maybe we just don't have them. And maybe, this is what I've said a lot about, like psychic communication and telekinesis and all these different things.

• 2:36:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:36:54Joe Rogan?

  I think there are emerging, emerging properties of human consciousness that haven't achieved like a full-blown integration yet.

• 2:37:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:37:02Joe Rogan?

  And my, my real suspicion is that the biological evolution is not going to make it there in time and that the technological evolution is going to intervene and push us. Just like that UFO disappeared in space.

• 2:37:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:37:19Joe Rogan?

  Just took off. I have a feeling that the next leap of change that's going to happen with human beings is going to be technologically driven and monumental.

• 2:37:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:37:31Joe Rogan?

  In a way that you, you won't be able to even imagine life without it. It's scary, but it's also, it's like it's scary to not be a monkey anymore and to be in a taxi cab. You know, it's, you know, but that happened.

• 2:37:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:37:44Joe Rogan?

  You know, it's scary to not, you know,

• 2:37:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:37:46Joe Rogan?

  have to walk everywhere and then all of a sudden you're flying in a plane. All that is kind of crazy.

• 2:37:50Speaker 00

  I would love to be a, you know, a fly on the wall.

• 2:37:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God. I would have loved, the fly, for me, fly on the wall would be like ancient Egypt. I would love to see what was going on when they were making the pyramids.

• 2:38:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, oh, yeah.

• 2:38:03Joe Rogan?

  That's my number one place. The next would be, what was it like when Genghis Khan was running through Asia? What was that like? You know, those, those are two.

• 2:38:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. There's, there's a lot of unanswered things out there, but I, I, I'm a, um, you know, I make the odd documentary, so I'm, I'm a documentary watcher. Uh, whenever I can, really, that's sometimes, it's either Anthony Bourdain or a documentary that puts me to sleep most evenings. After, after watching them, not during.

• 2:38:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:38:40Speaker 00

  But, yeah, no, so I, I'm, I, I, I'm, I thirst for information half the time. Whether I retain it or not's another thing, but I certainly am driven to absorb what I can.

• 2:38:52Joe Rogan?

  As am I. I, I think that I, I try to, especially as I get older, to be more open-minded and less dismissive of all this bizarre stuff like ghosts, like the, like I think essentially.

• 2:39:07Speaker 00

  What's your, what's your take?

• 2:39:08Joe Rogan?

  I think certain memories are so potent and that the energy that's created by these moments is so potent that sometimes it lingers and sometimes it's available and sometimes it's not. And it depends on the state of the people, the, the, the state of consciousness that they've acquired, the level of anxiety they're currently experiencing, the level of stress, where they are in the world, the solar cycles, the fucking, I think all these factors come into play and occasionally people see whispers of the past. Or maybe it's not even that it's the past. Maybe it's, those things are happening, they're just not happening in this

• 2:39:50Joe Rogan?

  level of the multiverse and that all things that have ever happened are happening simultaneously, all at once. In this very bizarre structure that the universe is actually made out of. But we're only capable of seeing 3D space, what's currently available, what's in front of me right now, what am I gonna eat for dinner? You know, like, we have a very limited view of this thing that is impossible to grasp. Just like those numbers of septillion, whatever. It's impossible, you can't grasp it. I have a feeling that's everything. I think everything, like that Kung Fu movie, Everything All at Once. I think that's, there's probably a lot to that. There's probably a lot to that this isn't a binary experience. This is, this probably is a quantum experience.

• 2:40:35Speaker 00

  I just hope we get to understand some of it.

• 2:40:37Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of fun to not, and kind of fun to like speculate.

• 2:40:40Speaker 00

  One day.

• 2:40:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But the question is, once you do know, would that be better? Would it be better? Or is there something?

• 2:40:47Speaker 00

  I mean, do you have to know everything? You know, just give us a hint.

• 2:40:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, you might, the problem is you might know everything. You know, you know this problem that you have with your memory.

• 2:40:55Speaker 00

  That's what many say, that you're just remembering things.

• 2:41:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's true too, right? That information is essentially you're pulling it out of the air. You're like ideas, you're pulling ideas out of the air.

• 2:41:08Speaker 00

  Correct, it's all in the ether, it's who gets there first.

• 2:41:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, do you feel like that way with your music sometimes? Like, that ideas just sort of come to you from the muse?

• 2:41:16Speaker 00

  Sure, absolutely.

• 2:41:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think everybody does, right?

• 2:41:18Speaker 00

  No question about it.

• 2:41:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Even with photography?

• 2:41:23Speaker 00

  I think so too.

• 2:41:24Joe Rogan?

  Like, there's something that tells you to capture this thing, it's gonna resonate with you.

• 2:41:27Speaker 00

  No question about it. I mean, one of my favorite pictures in the book is one called Hope, and it's of this little girl in Ethiopia. But I was actually there to take a photograph of this person who was cutting the ribbon to open a new freshwater well. And I just heard this noise behind me, and we were under a plastic cover, it was sweltering out there. And again, because I'm shy and I don't set things up, I maybe, it's like a guerrilla street shot, you know.

• 2:42:06Speaker 00

  And I just, I just had this feeling that I needed to turn around. And I did turn around, and I just saw this young girl, just kind of looking at me like...

• 2:42:24Speaker 00

  Anything I can say is that,

• 2:42:29Speaker 00

  again, that everything's gonna be alright. That for this little girl there to kinda go, "It's okay, we're gonna be okay." You know, that's, that's the impression I got from her. It was just this look. It's kinda like that Nat Geo moment, you know?

• 2:42:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:47Speaker 00

  And I literally span around,

• 2:42:51Speaker 00

  snapped the shot and turned around and never looked back again. And when I did, she'd gone, she was with a group of friends. And I didn't actually know if I'd got the shot 'cause, 'cause again, my eyesight's not the best and, and I certainly couldn't see it properly on the back of my camera in the middle of a bloody desert. So it was only when I got back to the hotel and put it into the, uh, the computer that I went, "Oh." But the, but the face to me was just like this.

• 2:43:24Speaker 00

  "Yeah, we're gonna be okay."

• 2:43:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:27Speaker 00

  And, I don't know, those kinda moments

• 2:43:34Speaker 00

  give me some kind of, as I called it, hope, you know?

• 2:43:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:39Speaker 00

  That, uh, "We'll do okay at the end of the day," you know? But that's a very human element and a very, you know,

• 2:43:50Speaker 00

  warm embrace, uh, which I choose to,

• 2:43:55Speaker 00

  you know, kind of take on board as opposed to think that it's, uh, it's anything other than that, really.

• 2:44:02Joe Rogan?

  I, I share that thought. I think we're gonna be okay. But I think that there has to be the possibility that we're not going to be okay for us to appreciate that we're gonna be okay.

• 2:44:11Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 2:44:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:12Speaker 00

  Correct, it's the yin and yang, it's the balance thing again, that...

• 2:44:17Joe Rogan?

  The horrors of the world to recognize the beauty.

• 2:44:19Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 2:44:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:21Speaker 00

  And I, I think quite a few people are recognizing that too. I mean, there's, there's obviously some horrible stuff going on right now, but at the other end of it, there's also recognition that we, we should take care of each other and we should look after this place that we call home, you know?

• 2:44:38Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:44:39Speaker 00

  And I don't mean in that soppy hippie way either. It's like genuine, you know,

• 2:44:46Speaker 00

  concern and love and respect for where we are.

• 2:44:51Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:44:52Speaker 00

  This is, we are so lucky. I mean, we're so, so lucky. You know, I thi- I think it was actually Professor Brian Cox that just goes, this is insane that we're here now.

• 2:45:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:06Speaker 00

  Having this experience.

• 2:45:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:09Speaker 00

  It's try, I, I mean, if you can, take that on board. Try to appreciate that and feel that wonder of the fact that we exist in this time, you know, if we do.

• 2:45:23Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think we do.

• 2:45:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:45:25Joe Rogan?

  I s- I think, well, at least in our experience, we do, you know, whatever this is, you know, there's people that believe this is a simulation.

• 2:45:32Speaker 00

  Yes, I know that one too.

• 2:45:33Joe Rogan?

  Also, yeah, boy, that's a, when, when it's explained to you by brilliant people.

• 2:45:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:45:39Joe Rogan?

  It, it becomes hard to ignore the possibility that maybe they're correct. Like Elon is, he said that the odds of us not being in a simulation.

• 2:45:49Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:45:50Joe Rogan?

  Are in the billions. Yeah.

• 2:45:53Speaker 00

  Ouch, that hurts.

• 2:45:54Joe Rogan?

  But who, you, wouldn't you think that though, if you're simultaneously running Tesla and a rocket company and fucking?

• 2:46:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:46:00Joe Rogan?

  I mean, he's just, he seems like he's in a simulation, you know, he, and you're also the richest man in the world and you're also the number one Diablo player in the world. Like, he's in a simulation.

• 2:46:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, he's certainly thinking he's, you want to talk about a multiverse going on at the same time. He's already there, that's for sure.

• 2:46:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And if I was him, I would think that this is a simulation too. It's just because he's got a really good level of the simulation.

• 2:46:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:46:26Joe Rogan?

  Like, that level's fun.

• 2:46:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 2:46:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. But it's also, it's like, what do you do with that information? Like, if you know, like, if you've decided this is a simulation, what are, what are you experiencing? Are these experiences real or is it, it's still real? So real feelings and real moments still do exist. So does it cheapen it?

• 2:46:52Speaker 00

  But does that change your purpose also?

• 2:46:54Joe Rogan?

  Does it? Does it change how you feel? Does it change the people you love? Does it change, you know?

• 2:47:00Speaker 00

  But I mean, he, you certainly look at him and go. You want to talk about being a go getter, making things happen.

• 2:47:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:09Speaker 00

  He believes it's possible, so he does it.

• 2:47:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:13Speaker 00

  And, you know, I think that's the same with a lot of people, obviously not to that extreme.

• 2:47:22Speaker 00

  But, you know, I think we do make our own fortune in life.

• 2:47:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, in some weird way.

• 2:47:30Speaker 00

  I think we are responsible partly for our destiny, for our paths in life.

• 2:47:37Joe Rogan?

  Do you believe in free will?

• 2:47:43Joe Rogan?

  It's a tricky one, right?

• 2:47:46Joe Rogan?

  It's a tricky one.

• 2:47:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:47:49Joe Rogan?

  There's something there that is free will. I believe in determinism as well.

• 2:47:54Speaker 00

  You have choices.

• 2:47:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you do have choices, but how much of your choices are shaped by your past, your biology, life experiences, genetics, you know, how much of it is, you know, there's that argument, like Sapolsky makes the argument that that's going to be the one of the things that we look back on in the future as being one of the most preposterous concepts that people attach themselves to is the concept of free will.

• 2:48:20Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:48:21Joe Rogan?

  And Sapolsky is like, he's pretty much a pure determinism guy. And I don't know if that's really true. I feel like it's both. I feel like there's, there are decisions that you can make and you make these decisions and change your life. You could change the life of other people and you know that you can do it and you're doing it through will. There's something about focusing your energy and your desires and your life goal, your path to something. That's a real thing.

• 2:48:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, and things happening at a particular time.

• 2:49:01Joe Rogan?

  I think it's very foolish to pretend that you know, whether it's determinism or whether it's free will. I think it's foolish. I think also, there's so many factors to take into consideration to dismiss any of them. Like to dismiss the concept of the simulation, I think is silly. But to dismiss the concept of the multiverse, also equally silly. To dismiss, to dismiss this idea that you have no free will. It's like, I'm not sure. Because there's something, there's something you know guides you in a particular direction that you don't necessarily always go with. So what is that? Is that pure determinism? If like, sometimes you make mistakes and you recognize you made those mistakes and

• 2:49:45Joe Rogan?

  you recalibrate and then you get to that fork in the road again, you go, I fucked this up before. This time, I'm not going to. This time, I'm gonna move forward. Is that free will? Because it certainly seems like it to me. And that's not discounting the impact of determinism, which is all the events of your life and your biology.

• 2:50:04Speaker 00

  It has to be a shared.

• 2:50:06Joe Rogan?

  It's a lot of different stuff going on simultaneously.

• 2:50:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. I don't think, I don't think you can say it's one or the other.

• 2:50:12Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't think so either. But people love to do that, though. They want to put a stamp on something.

• 2:50:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, pigeonholing.

• 2:50:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they just love to like, I want to put this in a narrow window of understanding and dismiss all the other things that are contrary.

• 2:50:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, open mindedness is something that is a necessity in this strange, weird world that we live in.

• 2:50:35Joe Rogan?

  It's fun, though, right?

• 2:50:36Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh, no, absolutely, absolutely. I certainly have enjoyed the process. But it's funny that what you're saying, how you're saying things, because it makes, it's, as you're discussing this, I'm thinking about certain choices that I've made because of certain things that have happened and certain things in the past and where I believe I should be in the future. Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, quite, I find quite an interesting one, that this whole also concept of, of, well, my mind's going blank. Not enough coffee today. That you're, what do you call it when you're putting it out there?

• 2:51:24Speaker 00

  I'm really brain dead right now. When you're visualizing the future and the possibilities.

• 2:51:33Joe Rogan?

  Manifesting your own.

• 2:51:34Speaker 00

  Manifesting your dreams, study. You know, is there some truth to that? I mean, does it? Because that does seem to happen to a degree.

• 2:51:48Joe Rogan?

  It just doesn't always happen.

• 2:51:49Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:51:49Joe Rogan?

  I think it's a factor. I think it's a factor.

• 2:51:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a possibility. I agree with you on that. But there's something definitely to that. I definitely think.

• 2:52:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:01Speaker 00

  I certainly feel that I can relate certain things happening to me because of manifesting or the will to move things in a particular direction.

• 2:52:13Joe Rogan?

  You put your energy and your focus into something and the thing becomes real and you're like, oh, my God, I manifested this thing.

• 2:52:20Speaker 00

  How did that happen without that, you know?

• 2:52:22Joe Rogan?

  But it's also work. Like this is where people get this bizarre thing that if you just manifest something that it'll just occur.

• 2:52:30Speaker 00

  No, that's never the case. No, there's a ton of energy behind it that.

• 2:52:36Joe Rogan?

  It's a weird process.

• 2:52:37Speaker 00

  That comes into that for sure.

• 2:52:39Joe Rogan?

  Julian, I've really enjoyed talking to you. It was a lot of fun.

• 2:52:42Speaker 00

  Thank you. Likewise. Back at you.

• 2:52:45Joe Rogan?

  And I really enjoy your photography.

• 2:52:46Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 2:52:47Joe Rogan?

  And the book is available, Life's Fragile Moments. It's an awesome coffee table sized. It's, yeah, it's heavy. Photography. Let's do this again sometime, man.

• 2:52:57Speaker 00

  Thank you. My absolute pleasure.

• 2:52:59Joe Rogan?

  My pleasure as well. Thank you very much. All right. Bye, everybody.

• 2:53:03Speaker 00

  Bye-bye.

• 2:53:48Speaker 02

  It's getting chilly outside. But you know what that means?

• 2:53:54Speaker 06

  It's time to cozy up with Panera Bread. Let's get toasty, cheesy. Oh, hello broccoli cheddar soup in a bread bowl. How about melty? Okay, Chipotle Chicken Avo Melt. It's dipping bread and soupy goodness season. Oh yeah, we are so back. It's Panera season. Order now.