Former Green Beret and SMU Operator | David Carmichael | Ep. 412

David Carmichael joins us to discuss his memoir Gray Man: A Life Lived Under the Radar, tracing his life from growing up in missionary communities across West Africa to surviving abusive boarding schools and eventually finding his way into the U. S. Army. He breaks down his path through 5th Special Forces Group, the old Q Course, Somalia, HUMINT work, Korea, and the mindset that shaped a career spent largely out of the spotlight. Grab David's book here: https://a.co/d/0aAJUNtF GhostBed ⬇️ https://www.ghostbed.com/house FOR 10% off! For ad free video and audio and access to live streams and Eyes On Geopolitics... JOIN OUR PATREON! https://www.patreon.com/c/TheTeamHouse To help support the show and for all bonus content including: -live shows and asking guest questions -ad free audio and video -early access to shows -Access to ALL bonus segments with our guests Subscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Support the show here:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse ___________________________________________________ PRE ORDER JACK'S NEW BOOK "THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN" ⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/803651/the-most-dangerous-man-by-jack-murphy/paperback/ Subscribe to the new EYES ON podcast here:⬇️ https://www.youtube.com/@EyesOnGeopoliticsPod/featured __________________________________ Jack Murphy's new book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/ —————————————————————— Or make a one time donation at: ⬇️ https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouse Social Media: ⬇️ The Team House Instagram: https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_link The Team House Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePod Jack’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_link Jack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21 Dave’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21 Team House Discord: ⬇️ https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6 "Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio" 00:00 — Start 00:51 — Growing up as a missionary kid in West Africa 03:18 — Life near Timbuktu: mud huts, no electricity, and isolation 04:17 — Sent to boarding school at six years old 07:10 — Abuse, censorship, and surviving missionary boarding schools 10:26 — Returning home, moving schools, and culture shock in America 13:16 — Leaving strict religion behind and joining the Army 15:01 — Chasing Special Forces and finding a path into 5th Group 20:48 — The old Q Course, Camp Mackall, and earning the Green Beret 24:09 — Somalia MTT: training local forces after the Soviets left 28:29 — Selection, HUMINT training, and becoming a military “Grey Man” 34:26 — Family life, Korea, Panmunjom, and dealing with North Koreans 44:42 — DCI award, retirement, and choosing family over promotion 48:27 — Building a scuba and military gear business after the Army 52:03 — Reconnecting with family and lessons from his father 54:31 — Writing Gray Man: A Life Lived Under the Radar 58:15 — Business lessons, honesty, and closing thoughts Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Ready to feel energized and in control again? At Orderly Meds, we have helped thousands just like you take charge of their health with a GLP-1. If you've tried dieting, exercising, and relying on willpower and nothing seems to stick, then it might be time to talk to a licensed provider about your options. That's what Orderly Meds is for. This fall, choose healthier habits for yourself with a visit to orderlymeds.com. You don't need to visit with a physician in person to become eligible. Orderly Meds has a simple virtual process. Connect with licensed medical professionals who can determine whether a GLP-1 treatment may be appropriate for you wherever you are. Getting started from the comfort of home, online. Change your habits and consider a new approach to feeling your best. Visit orderlymeds.com to learn more.

• 0:44Speaker 00

  That's orderlymeds.com. Orderlymeds.com. Gain confidence and choose better habits this fall. Compounded medications are not FDA-approved. Eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

• 1:00Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:30Jack Murphy?

  Hey folks, this is episode 412 of The Team House. I'm Jack Murphy, here with our guest on the show, David Carmichael. He is the author of "Gray Man: A Life Lived Under the Radar." You guys can go and find this book on Amazon right now. I read the Kindle version, but I also have a hard copy here. It is about David's life growing up. He had a very interesting upbringing, growing up largely in Africa. And then it chronicles some of his journey through the Army as well. So, Michael, thank you for joining us. We really appreciate it.

• 2:08Speaker 03

  Thank you for having me. I do too.

• 2:12Jack Murphy?

  So I guess to start at the beginning, David, I mean, tell us a little bit about, you know, your family background.

• 2:21Speaker 03

  My grandparents immigrated from Scotland right, well, originally during the, just before the depression. And when the depression hit, they headed back to England and came back just before the war started to the States. My father was born in England and then he married my mother here in the States and they decided to become missionaries. So they, my grandparents were already missionaries in Ghana, which was at the time was the west coast, uh, uh, Gold Coast in West Africa. That's where my father grew up. He came back to States, got married and he went back.

• 3:06Speaker 03

  And I grew up in Mali mostly with trips to boarding schools throughout West Africa. And I was there from 1956 to, till I came to the States to go to college and, and join the military. So my parents were out there for 27 years. My brother grew up out there and he went back to Africa for mostly the rest of his life. So we have a long history and particularly in West Africa. Back then, well, when we first got there, the, the countries were French West Africa. They were colonized by the French or in some cases, the British.

• 3:51Speaker 03

  And it was a pretty good life. And long about 1960, 61, most of those countries got their independence and turned directly towards the Eastern Bloc, China, North Korea, East Germany, Russia, who came in the country. And it wasn't so great a living after that. So I grew up in a little town near Timbuktu, which is the fabled city up on the north side of the Niger River at the edge of the Sahara Desert.

• 4:29Speaker 03

  And we would travel from there down country to boarding schools in Guinea, Ivory Coast and stuff. We lived, uh, for the first twelve years, we lived in a mud hut, no electricity, no running water. Um, and, um, yeah, about twelve years in, my father got a, a little old name generator, so we had a little bit of electricity at night to listen to the BBC and Voice of America. Um, there was little to no communication. The only, uh, communication was the government landline down at the government post office.

• 5:14Speaker 03

  And it worked if the camels didn't eat the, didn't eat the lines. Um, so it could take, uh, weeks, literally, to get information in and out back then. All the mail came in by the occasional airplane, uh, or up the river, on the, on the riverboats. So that was my life. I, uh, I would go off to, I went off to boarding school as a six-year-old the first time and spend eight months away from my parents in the, uh, the mountains, uh, of Guinea. Um, so, yeah, boarding schools weren't fun.

• 5:59Speaker 03

  Yeah. As you can, as you can read in the book, we went, you know, there were, there were hard times at boarding schools. And my book, um, if anything, is a, is a story of resilience. It's of, of living that life, uh, going to those boarding schools and still, um, you know, having a, a successful military career and a successful business career. And so, you know, I hope that some other, some young person who's struggling will maybe read it and realize that they don't have to, they don't have to live under the circumstances they were dealt.

• 6:39Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, um, well, yeah, let's talk about that a little bit more. I mean, six, uh, six years old is pretty young to be separated from your parents. Um, and I mean, but i- in their mind, I mean, I remember in the book, you mentioned that your father went to boarding school. So did they, they felt that they were kind of giving you a proper education, even though you were out in the wilds of West Africa? Was that kind of the thought?

• 7:04Speaker 03

  I mean, that's part of it, but the, the reality was that the missions, pretty much all missions at the time, uh, felt that the missionaries could not, could not win the hearts and souls of the Africans if they were busy teaching their children in school. And there was extreme pressure at, at, on the missionaries at the time, not just our mission, but others, to send their kids off to boarding school. The option, you know, there was the option of doing, uh, homeschooling, but I said it was highly discouraged back in those days. It's only been in the, uh, you know, in the last 30 years that all the

• 7:49Speaker 03

  abuses and problems of boarding schools came out and it's gotten a lot of attention. And not, you know, not only, well, all boarding schools, including Catholic schools and, you know, all that stuff. So nowadays, people wonder how in the heck did you ever do it? Especially, you know, a mother sending off her six-year-old, but it was kind of what was expected at the time.

• 8:16Jack Murphy?

  And, and so the first boarding school was Ghana. You were six years old. I mean, you were very young, um, but you do relate some of those experiences. I mean, what do you remember about that first run at boarding school?

• 8:29Speaker 03

  Well, as I said, I was six years old. I was, my parents couldn't take me to school that, that first year, so I rode with another missionary family. And, um, you know, you get into the, uh, the Highlands of Guinea, it's beautiful, beautiful area, but, you know, in boarding school, the, uh, and there was dorm parents and teachers that, uh, you know, were rough on you. It was a, you know, it's a rough life. Uh, there was a lot of abuse. Uh, females had a lot of sexual abuse, males had a lot of mental,

• 9:11Speaker 03

  spiritual and physical abuse. Uh, you were required to write a letter home each week, but that letter never went out unless the dorm parents approved it and they highly censored it. They would make you change whatever. So, parents, for the most part, didn't know what was going on. And they learned some when you came home, but, you know, I went that first year, the semesters were set up in, in four month semesters with a two week break in between. And if your parents could, they, they could come down and spend, take you to wherever for two weeks, uh, on a vacation. But that first year, my parents weren't able

• 9:54Speaker 03

  to come, so I spent eight months that first year, you know, away. It's kinda, you know, that's not what you want for a six year old, I guess.

• 10:02Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, some of the things you describe, like in, in the book, I mean, it, it goes beyond like, you know, hitting a kid's knuckles with a ruler or, you know, occasional paddle because somebody acts up. I mean, some of the things you describe, it almost sounds like a kind of cult.

• 10:20Speaker 03

  Um, well, the, the problem in those cases was that the, the, the people that the missions chose to be dorm parents were often missionaries who didn't do well in other places. And they were relegated to that job and in some cases they didn't want to be there. And they were just mean and abusive. There's no other way to put it. Um, so yeah, everything that was described in that book, and I didn't even touch the surface because, you know, I gave a lot of references. And there's a video series on YouTube called, uh, All God's Children.

• 11:03Speaker 03

  Um, All God's Children, the Documentary is what it, what it's, to look it up. And it gets a highly detailed account of all that abuse that went on. And the people that made that video, uh, were my roommates. The rich dad, one of the primaries in the video was my roommate. His brother was a year older. So I was, I was there. I was involved in everything you see in that video. So that's, if someone is further interested in abuse that went on in boring schools, that's a great video to watch. But I, I listed a bunch of other references there as well.

• 11:42Jack Murphy?

  Mm-hmm. And a- after that was over and, you know, you went back to your parents after eight months, sort of, how did your life pick up from there?

• 11:52Speaker 03

  You know, when you went, uh, home after eight months for a three-month break, it was, you know, it started out with, you know, euphoria. You're back with your family. Everybody's happy to see each other. You know, we spent a great three months hunting and fishing in our, in our time. It was, it was, it was great, you know? And then, then all of a sudden, you're a couple of weeks away from going back and everything gets summer again and you're off doing it all over again. So that went on, you know, that went on for... Three or four years for me in Guinea. And then the president of the country at the time, Sekuture, kicked all the Westerners out.

• 12:36Speaker 03

  And so we went to another boarding school in the Ivory Coast called Ivory Coast Academy, and it was much, much better from a standpoint of use. It was a, it's a much better school. So I spent three or four years there. And then I came back to the States in time to finish high school and shortly after that joined the military. But, you know, coming back to the Western world or to the States after being in Africa, we typically, we'd stay in Africa for years at a time. Then we'd come home for a year and my parents would go around and, you know, talk to their churches and raise support and stuff. But we kids, our clothes were 10 years out of date.

• 13:20Speaker 03

  Our social norms were out of date. We were coming back to, to kids in high school who had grown up together, been on the Pee Wee leagues together, all knew each other and we were, you know, we just didn't fit in, you know. And even if, you know, our parents, missionaries live on the, on what the churches give them and what the, you know, so they don't have a lot of money. So they weren't buying us the latest clothes. And, you know, the latest things that a teenager would want to have to fit in. So even coming back to the United States, it was, you know, that was quite a, quite a change. Culture shock.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:08Speaker 04

  A lot of people put off buying a new mattress because it feels like a hassle. Too many options, too many claims, and no real way to tell what's actually going to hold up. Ghostbed makes that decision easier. Ghostbed is a family-run company with more than 20 years of mattress making experience backed by deep manufacturing expertise. Their approach is straightforward. Focus on quality materials, smart construction, and a consistency over time, not flashy features or complicated sales tactics. Every Ghostbed mattress is built for the long for long-term comfort using durable foam and proven cooling technology to help regulate temperature while you sleep. It's designed to feel reliable night after night, not just when it's brand new. And if you're not sure which mattress is right for you, Ghostbed's online mattress quiz helps

• 14:52Speaker 04

  narrow it down quickly. Whether you're a side sleeper who needs a little plushness, or someone who prefers a firmer feel, the quiz matches you with the right option based on how you actually sleep. They also keep pricing grounded. Ghostbed mattresses cost up to 50% less than comparable brands. You could rest easy knowing you're not, you're getting one of the best values at this quality level. Every mattress comes with a 101 night sleep trial, an industry-leading warranty, and fast, free shipping. And as a Team House listener, you can get an extra 10% off your order. Just go to ghostbed.com/house and use the promo code HOUSE at checkout. That's ghostbed.com/house, code HOUSE for an additional 10% off sitewide.

• 15:34Speaker 04

  Upgrade your sleep with Ghostbed, makers of the coolest beds in the world. Some exclusions apply, see site for details. Thank you Ghostbed for sponsoring the show. Thank you guys for helping support the show. Bye.

• 15:47Speaker 05

  Games on a break? Instead of doom scrolling, try rips on Underdog. Rip real player cards worth real money right there in the app. It's instant cash in the palm of your hand. Buy a digital pack, rip it open on your phone, and reveal a real, physical card. Football, basketball, Pokemon, yes, Pokemon, and more. The best part? Packs start at just $5. And if you pull something you don't want to let go of just yet, have it shipped straight to your door. Want the cash? Sell it back instantly at 100% of its fair market value. No listing, no negotiating, no stranger asking if you'll trade it for a used jet ski, even though jet skis are super sick. Best part? There are some serious grails in the mix, with maximum card values reaching up to $125,000

• 16:32Speaker 05

  depending on your pack tier. You can also check the live odds and see what you could pull before you rip, and what other cards are being pulled by fans. Download Underdog and get in on the chase. Get five free rips packs when you deposit $5. Real rip. Real cards, real cash. Only on Underdog. Unleash your dog. 18+, terms apply. Top Grails are extremely rare.

• 16:53Speaker 06

  Looking for a new way to take control of your health? If diet, exercise, and willpower alone haven't gotten you where you want to be, visit orderlymeds.com to learn about GLP-1 treatment options. With a convenient virtual process, you can connect with licensed medical providers from home and see if treatment may be appropriate for you. Visit orderlymeds.com today. That's orderlymeds.com. Compounded medications are not FDA-approved. Eligibility determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 17:56Jack Murphy?

  So you come back to finish high school, and I guess before moving on, I mean, and maybe you didn't even know this at the time, but looking back on that, you clearly were raised with a strong Christian upbringing. Did some of those negative experiences in your early life kind of like carry over? And did they affect either your faith or how you kind of proceeded through the rest of your early years?

• 18:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know, growing up, it was twice on Sunday and at least once during the week. And revivals were everybody, you know, if you didn't get on your knees at the altar every time you made a call, you were shamed. That's what I grew up with. And then I briefly went to a... Bible college in the States and about the time I turned twenty years old, I divorced myself from all that. I joined the army and I I basically left all that behind me at that time. Um, that's not to say I haven't gone to church, but I've gone to

• 19:03Speaker 03

  some churches, not often frankly, but some churches that are more liberal than the uh the Baptist, the Baptist, you know, the Baptist I grew up with was you didn't smoke, drink or chew, dance, go with girls that do, you didn't go to the movies. Uh, there was a time where we weren't allowed to do anything strenuous on Sunday, you know, it was that kind of a very conservative upbringing. And so, once I joined the military, you know, I kind of left it up and it and it was it was many years after that before I even really reconnected with my family. I wasn't at odds with my family, but they were overseas.

• 19:47Speaker 03

  I was overseas. I was going in military. We just didn't have much time to interact and it wasn't until basically after I retired from the military that I and settled down a little bit that I reconnected with even my family. But so to answer your question, I guess I would consider myself spiritual, but not religious.

• 20:08Jack Murphy?

  No, I get it. Um, and and so the it sounds like the army was kind of an escape in a lot of ways for you.

• 20:16Speaker 03

  It was, you know, I had to from the my earliest days, I can remember wanting to be a soldier. Uh, I can remember playing army. It's something I just always wanted to do. And um, but yes, it was an escape. I initially, you know, and I always wanted to be an elite whatever. Uh, so in my mind, that was special forces, right? So I I went in a delayed entry program where they're what they called a guarantee back then or their contract to be able to try out for special forces. And then and then I hurt my knee playing college soccer and they reneged on that.

• 20:57Speaker 03

  So I said, well, shit, I'm going in anyway. So I went in, they put me in as an avionics mechanic. I spent three years doing that and I then I got out for a period of time and then I, you know, I said to myself, you know, I've always had this goal. I'm going to go do it. So I signed back up, re-enlisted and with a guarantee to go to airborne school. That's what happened.

• 21:26Jack Murphy?

  And you had to finagle your way into special forces after that?

• 21:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, for better or worse. When they, when they sent me to Fort Bragg, I went to 18th Airborne Corps Repo Depot, or I was supposed to. When I hit Bragg, I went over to this special forces group and I asked to see the Sergeant Major. Pretty ballsy, I suppose, for a spec four, but he saw me and I said, look, I grew up in Africa. I speak these languages. I said, you know, I'd be wasted somewhere else. You really, I'd really like you to put me on special forces and he did. So that's how I got into, into fifth group.

• 22:14Speaker 03

  Now, once I was in there, I let it be known that I wanted to go to Q course, but of course, only the, only the hardcore skills guys that were, you know, the type of people that are on A teams, that's what they were sending in Q course. But it turned out that the commander decided at the time that they wanted intel and ops guys with the teams and if they were going to deploy with the teams, they needed to have all the same training as the teams. So that's how I was able to get into the Q course.

• 22:52Jack Murphy?

  And what, about what year was this that you got the fifth group?

• 22:56Speaker 03

  Seventy eight, seventy eight.

• 22:59Jack Murphy?

  Okay.

• 23:00Speaker 03

  I went through, I went through Uori in the winter of seventy nine, eighty.

• 23:06Jack Murphy?

  So it's probably like Colonel Montel was the commander at the time?

• 23:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, that name rings a bell, yeah.

• 23:14Jack Murphy?

  Um.

• 23:15Speaker 03

  I think, uh, Maxim, Sergeant Maxim had just left.

• 23:19Jack Murphy?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

• 23:20Speaker 03

  He wasn't, he wasn't the tac. I think he, he might have left the, the class before I got there.

• 23:27Jack Murphy?

  And I, I think, uh, I think Mark Boyott and Taffy Carlin were both, uh, either lieutenants or captains at the time in, in fifth group. They've both passed on unfortunately, but.

• 23:40Speaker 03

  Who was the, uh, the Colonel that, uh, cut down all those Koreans with a, with an axe, with a shovel?

• 23:49Jack Murphy?

  Oh shit, uh, I, I don't, um, I, I do, he's Medal of Honor recipient. Yeah, I'm sorry, I can't remember his name.

• 23:56Speaker 03

  I think, I feel like he was, of course, at my level, I'm not exactly sure, but I think he was the guy that was in charge of training.

• 24:05Jack Murphy?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:08Jack Murphy?

  Um, and so when they brought you into fifth group, you're, you're, you know, a part of the unit, but as you, you point out yourself in the book, I mean, you're not a green beret just yet until you graduate the Q course. And what did they have you doing at the unit, um, in the meantime?

• 24:24Speaker 03

  Uh, I was brought into the eight oh first MI battalion. And so I was doing, you know, what, what young intel guy is doing in MI battalion. Well, but frankly, I wasn't, wasn't there that long before I went off to selection.

• 24:39Jack Murphy?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  And then, uh, and then not long after selection, I got picked up for OCS.

• 24:47Speaker 03

  So.

• 24:47Jack Murphy?

  How, how did that happen? Did you, you applied for OCS at the same time you were applying for selection?

• 24:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had applied for OCS about the same time, well, when I got to the unit and, uh, I mean, not the unit, the eight oh first in the fifth group and, uh,

• 25:05Speaker 03

  You know, I've basically forgotten about it and it came through sometime after I finished the Q course, not too long after that. So, obviously, normal SF guys going through the Q course, they, their second phase, phase two is whatever their, their discipline is. In our case, they basically put us through, uh, an EIB course, basically, to train us to be all, in all the infantry skills. So that, that was the phase two that they put our group through. I don't know how many of the group, there was probably about twenty ONI guys, maybe, ten, twenty.

• 25:49Speaker 03

  I don't know how many made it through, no idea.

• 25:53Jack Murphy?

  What else do you recall about the Q course at that time? Those were sort of, still sort of the early days of special forces as it was getting more formalized.

• 26:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, one thing I, I know, or I realized from seeing the way things are, you know, now, is, uh, the, the unit itself put us through our pre, pre-course training. And not only, they did that whether you were going to, uh, uh, scuba school or whatever, but for the, you didn't have, like, right now, I think they got like two or three different levels of pre-selection before you ever get to, to Camp McCall. Anyway, I went to Camp McCall at that time, they were the, the old wooden barracks, uh,

• 26:47Speaker 03

  you know, um, there was no heat, obviously, um, there was no hot water. And, you know, we did our time at Camp McCall like everybody else did, you know, beating, uh, you know, doing the rucksack marches and hoping we weren't the last guy through the gate. I never did have to beat the gates, but, uh...

• 27:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was, you know, it was tough. And then, uh, phase three, it was winter time in North Carolina, so it was cold, a lot of ice and cold rain and stuff. Oddly enough, my hobby now is, uh, restoring old Land Rovers. So I take my old Land Rovers to events up and down the east coast. And one of the events, in fact, I'm going to later this month is in Uwari, Uwari National Forest. So it's kind of interesting to go back there and, and be able to drive around the woods that we, we had to hike through.

• 27:45Jack Murphy?

  That's because, uh, you, you got exposed to, uh, Land Rovers when you were in Africa, driving around with your parents.

• 27:52Speaker 03

  In Africa, yeah, yeah. We had Africa, uh, Land Rovers growing up in Africa. And when I finally, when I retired and started a business and started, you know, making a little money, had enough wherewithal, I started, I bought my first Land Rover and now I have more than I need.

• 28:12Jack Murphy?

  (laughing)

• 28:13Speaker 03

  But that's what I do. But, you know, and I've actually met some guys up in Uwari that, that, uh, volunteer as, uh, local, uh, local guerrillas and stuff. And they helped the cadre and stuff. Yeah. So it's kind of fun to come full circle on that.

• 28:34Jack Murphy?

  Um, so you graduate the Q course and then you go to OCS. Um, and that, and now are you coming back to fifth group as an officer?

• 28:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, uh, maybe. But what they did was they sent me off, they branched me MI, which was unfortunate, but I didn't have a choice. I would have rather been branched infantry. So right away, they sent me off the basic course at Port Wachukka. And, um, and then, you know, the advanced course comes along. I spend the, uh,

• 29:08Speaker 03

  A couple of years at Wachukka, trying to figure out how to get out of there. And then I was picked up for an MTT to Somalia, again, based on my Africa background. And through that MTT, I met a couple of guys who later remembered me and pushed for me to be invited to go to selection for this other unit I was in. So, and, so I was able to, so I was still an intel officer. I was trained in all the, all the intel disciplines, but basically I spent most of my career doing human stuff.

• 29:51Jack Murphy?

  Um, before moving on, let's talk a little bit about that MTT to Somalia, because that must have been very interesting, especially, I imagine you guys got there right after the Soviets pulled out.

• 30:03Speaker 03

  We did. In fact, the, the schools, buildings that we were teaching in had closets that still had Soviet maps, Soviet compasses and other Soviet things in them. We trained the security and intel cadre, about forty people. And being an intel guy, I did a complete study of Somalia and all the people while I was there. And I had pictures of every one of them and I had whatever bio I could get on it. I mean, it was something, wasn't something I was tasked to do on the MTT.

• 30:44Speaker 03

  I just did it and came back to States and nobody was interested. And in nineteen eighty-three, was that when Somalia came around? In nineteen, was it eighty-three Somalia? Anyway, when we went back into Somalia, I contacted people and said, hey, I have all this stuff. Some of the people you may be fighting now are people I trained, are interested. And the answer was no, got nothing.

• 31:13Speaker 03

  Which in my mind is typical of the intel services if you are not with them at the time in the moment, you know, they don't, they don't, they don't give you much credence.

• 31:30Jack Murphy?

  I should point out too for our listeners, an MTT is a mobile training team. So that's sort of like the bread and butter of special forces really is going around the world and training. Around that time, so you were in Somalia eighty-three, I think nineteen eighty-three, we sent the first MTT to Lebanon also. But ODAs, A-teams at that time were all over Central, South America, I mean, all over the place.

• 31:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. They were. That's the one I got chosen to do.

• 32:03Jack Murphy?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And how do you, what was sort of your impression of the Somali forces at that time and the people that you were training?

• 32:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, I wasn't very impressed. And that the African forces that I was, came across,

• 32:28Speaker 03

  were not very impressive, not very well-trained. The Somalis would rather, you know, sit around and chew cotton and stay up all night than, you know, than actually work, you know, even trying to get them to do simple things like map-reading courses and anything that involved physical activity, you weren't getting much out of them. I wasn't impressed, bottom line. But we had a job to do. We trained them in, you know, some intel stuff and map-reading and that kind of thing.

• 33:06Jack Murphy?

  And so you did a good enough job on this MTT, it sounds like, that it caught some people's attention and they started suggesting, maybe there's another place that you could go?

• 33:17Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah, there was a couple, or at least one guy that was on the team, plus another guy that I had known in another unit.

• 33:26Speaker 03

  And, you know, I guess they remembered my Africa background or something. For some reason, they decided I was appropriate for the, for evaluation.

• 33:36Jack Murphy?

  And what are you able to say about the, that evaluation, that selection course that you, you went through? And I mean, at that time, did you even really know what you were trying out for?

• 33:46Speaker 03

  No, no. And it was, it's been described in, in many podcasts and, and books and stuff, but it's a typical selection that special minute mission units go through, going back to SAS days, patterned after the SAS, designed to test your mettle, see how far you're willing to go without knowing where you're supposed to go, or how far you're, you're supposed to go. It was that kind of a thing.

• 34:23Jack Murphy?

  Using, uh, yeah, land navigation and ruck marching as sort of like a stressor, right?

• 34:30Speaker 03

  Right, yeah. It wasn't, I mean, I don't think it was about how physical you could be, although there was probably a component of it. But it's how you react to constantly changing unknowns.

• 34:45Jack Murphy?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Um, and when the course ended, um, you know, did, uh, what, what was that like for you? Um, did you get brought into a board? Or how did they tell you that, you know, they wanted you to come to the unit?

• 35:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, there was a board, selection board at the end of the, at the end of the selection process. And then, then after that, you go to the, to the organization and get further training.

• 35:15Jack Murphy?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Um, yeah, I mean, you talk in your book, for instance, you, you mentioned that, um, you got to go to the farm and get trained on human intelligence, tradecraft. Like, was that like kind of a rare thing at that time for army guys to be able to go and do that?

• 35:34Speaker 03

  Not necessarily for Army Guides, but it was kinda unique for me being, uh, Special Forces trained to also be a human intelligence officer. There was a few of us around, but not too many at that time. Um, you know, I also, I mean, that was, that was an awesome opportunity for me, cause yes, I went there for, was trained the way all Army case officers are trained. Um, but I, I also during my time in the command, uh, you know, went to Halo School and Scuba School.

• 36:11Jack Murphy?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:11Speaker 03

  So it was, it's kind of, kinda unique to have that opportunity and not only to get one as an officer, but to get two, you know, both disciplines as an officer. So I went through, I went through Key West in eighty-four and, uh, I swore, that was the hardest school I ever went to and I swore I'd never forget it. Um, but I ended up honor graduate, one of the honor graduates out of it. So, um, worked fine and I went on to be a diver for many years after that, uh, civilian and, you know, had all the PADI disciplines and

• 36:54Speaker 03

  in my business, we, we made, uh, we had a sewing, we have a sewing factory and we made gear bags for the scuba industry. So as part of that, uh, my son and I would enter all the, all the spearfishing tournaments sponsored, sponsored all of them in this area. And we did that for, for a lot of years.

• 37:17Jack Murphy?

  Um, yeah, I mean, it is pretty cool and the, the way you kinda talk about it in, in the book, it sounds like, you know, you guys and what you were doing, you were almost like the modern version of the OSS, um, to be a, a human inter and also be this sort of like commando that's, you know, free fall trained and dive trained and everything else.

• 37:40Speaker 03

  Um, you know, as I said in the book, uh, armies all over the world have, uh, have units that are trained to do what the average, uh, soldier is not trained to do. They all, you know, they all have special operations elements. They all need, uh, they all need intelligence for their, for their missions. Um, so yeah, I don't know how you, unique it was in a world of, you know, of that, but yeah, that's, I mean, I was a human, human guy. And

• 38:20Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 38:21Speaker 03

  You know, the, the, I mean, post, uh, post Iran seventy-nine, you know, there, there was, if they were looking, this was before JSOC, this was, but you know, there were certain elements that were being stood up at the time to, to, uh, you know, fill in the gaps, uh, that were realized after Desert One.

• 38:50Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, there was kind of a, a feeling, right, that the CIA wasn't really able to support the intelligence needs of the military, right? And we had to kind of fill that gap.

• 39:00Speaker 03

  Uh, uh, is my understanding, that's the way the military felt.

• 39:05Jack Murphy?

  Hmm.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  They wanted people who were, who were their people, who were trained the way they knew they were trained, to collect the information that they specifically needed to do their specific jobs.

• 39:20Jack Murphy?

  Hmm.

• 39:21Speaker 03

  And that CIA didn't necessarily provide that to them, nor did the conventional intelligence services.

• 39:33Jack Murphy?

  And I feel like we should also take a moment here to mention, you know, this timeframe, eighty-three, eighty-four, eighty-five, you're getting married, you're having children. Tell us a little bit about how you meet your wife and how you start a family.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  I met my wife when I was still a spec four at Fort Wachukka. Her father was a sergeant major there. I met her, I don't, you know, she, I'm eight years, six years older than her, so I was twenty-four, she was eighteen when we got married. We, and then we had kids after we went back to Fort Benning, back to Fort Bragg, back to Fort Benning, and then finally back to Fort Wachukka as an officer. That's when we had our kids.

• 40:27Speaker 03

  But I spent, I spent a lot of time away from home, as most guys do. But the unit we were in was, you know, had a really supportive wives group and, but my wife, Jackie, pretty much raised the boys on her own for many years. And it was only when it came time to retire that I, I decided, my kids were just going into junior high, and I said, you know, I gotta be around, I gotta be around for that. So that's when I chose to retire.

• 41:06Speaker 03

  I had put in my papers for retirement, branch called and said, hey, you're number one on the list, within, not, probably not for the whole army, but whatever, within my peer group. And do you want to reconsider? And I said, no, no, I'm time to get out, start a business and take care of my family.

• 41:30Jack Murphy?

  You guys did spend some time in Korea, right, before you retired?

• 41:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I spent two years I was the liaison officer, the NNSC, which is Neutral Nations Security Commission, at Panmunjom. So I represented the UNCMAC, or the US Armed Forces in Korea, to the Neutral Nations Commission countries, which were the Czechs, the Polish, the Swiss, and the Swedes. Their job since Armistice, they was to just kind of monitor the peace. And they had compounds right up on the demarcation line.

• 42:18Speaker 03

  And, you know, that's where those blue Quonset huts are that you see in newsreels, you know, when they have repatriation of remains, or when, you know, important people meet up there.

• 42:32Jack Murphy?

  Or occasionally a defector runs across the border.

• 42:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, that happens. So, yeah, I was, that was, my job was to support those people. But we also met weekly, if not daily, with North Koreans, the North Koreans are North Korean counterparts.

• 42:56Jack Murphy?

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  So, you know, I met with North Koreans probably more than the joint duty officer did. But, yeah, that's what I did for two years. It was an accompanied assignment. My family lived on the base in Young Sun, and it's like a mini USA there. It was great living for them. Actually, a good assignment for me, too. I was, I would drive up to Panmunjom, a couple hours up, every morning, come back in the evenings. Sometimes I'd stay the night up there. But generally, I was free on the weekends. So it was a pretty good assignment. The NNSC that, so after the wall came down...

• 43:43Speaker 03

  Attitudes, politics started changing and the Czechs were the first to pull out. You know, they, they had increasingly poor relationship with their North Korean host. The Czechs pulled out and then right about the time I left or just after I left, the Polish pulled out and that effectively ended the N N S C. I think the Swiss and the Swedish stayed on for a while, but I'm not sure there's anything going on there now.

• 44:10Jack Murphy?

  What was your impression of the North Koreans? We, I gotta ask because we have a sort of view in America of these sort of stone-faced North Korean general. I was wondering what the reality was like, you know, for you and what you thought.

• 44:26Speaker 03

  Everyone I saw was that way, but you gotta understand that the, the people that are at Panmunjom are probably handpicked for the purpose. Highly, highly trained, highly motivated, you know, supporters of the regime. Yeah, they were that way and they, those guards up there would, would be happy to shoot you if they, if they thought they had an opportunity. I explained in my book where I had to, you know, sometimes I'd screw around with them and, and there's some information in there, you know, where I'd just play with them. They, they, they were, those young North Korean guards and towers were, were tasked to watch my every step.

• 45:09Speaker 03

  And whereas most people might walk down the middle of the pathway, I would, I would sidle up next to the buildings, get in the shadows, get under the overhangs where they couldn't see me and, you know, just to mess with them. And, but, you know, there was, people got shot running across, trying to cross that line and I had my escape routes mapped out, so the thing, thing happened. I knew how to get away.

• 45:38Jack Murphy?

  You got there a little, a little bit after the famous hatchet incident, right?

• 45:44Speaker 03

  Well, quite a bit. That was in seventy six.

• 45:47Jack Murphy?

  Okay.

• 45:47Speaker 03

  Um, and but prior to that, you could, uh, walk pretty, pretty freely between the buildings and, or you know, around that, that, that area at, uh, in Pen Moon and John there. But after that, they kind of stopped that and everybody stayed on their sides of the line. You know, I, I pushed the envelope on that, uh.

• 46:13Jack Murphy?

  Um, so, uh, one of the other things I wanted to ask you about, and I know you can't really tell the story behind it. Um, but you made major as you, uh, kind of round out your career. And you got an award from the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, the DCI Award. Um, can you tell us, I know, again, I know you can't tell really the backstory, but can you tell us about that award itself?

• 46:40Speaker 03

  Um, no, to be honest, I can't. I mean, suffice it to say that

• 46:47Speaker 03

  the guy who endorsed my book is Rick Prado, guy who wrote Black Ops.

• 46:52Jack Murphy?

  Yup.

• 46:52Speaker 03

  And, uh, he has, he has some nice things to say about me. Um, but I'd rather not say where or when, because that might give away too much.

• 47:03Jack Murphy?

  Oh, no, I, I, I understand. I, I was sort of more asking like, what is that award? Like, is it the equivalent of like a Silver Star?

• 47:11Speaker 03

  Well, my understanding is it's the highest award that the agency gives to a non-agency employee. I may be wrong about that, but that's what I was always told.

• 47:22Jack Murphy?

  That's pretty cool.

• 47:23Speaker 03

  And, you know, it's something that the DCI gives, uh, Director of Central Intelligence Agency gives, uh, to someone who's done a job they like, I guess.

• 47:34Jack Murphy?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

• 47:37Jack Murphy?

  Uh, well, start to talk to us. You, you mentioned it a little bit about, um, you know, when you decide to retire and you want to spend some more time with your family. Um, tell us a little bit about like winding down, getting to Tampa and starting to put your retirement papers in.

• 47:55Speaker 03

  When I finished the tour in Korea, the branch said, "Since you've had this hardship tour, we'll let you have your choice of places to go." I didn't think it was a hardship tour, but they did. And I said, "Well, dang, I want to go to Florida then. Send me to Tampa." And so that's how I ended up in Tampa.

• 48:22Speaker 03

  And, you know, I worked there for two years, but there really wasn't much going on. Gave me time to go through the Command and General Staff course by correspondence.

• 48:35Speaker 03

  And then I decided to retire. What would have happened was, had I taken the promotion that they said was, you know, right there around the corner for me, I know I'd have ended back up in, I'd have ended up in DC doing something. And I would have ended up doing something that took a lot of time away from my kids. So I just decided to stay and retire in Florida. You know, I've, at times, regretted it because it wasn't too long after that that all my peers went off to the desert and most of my peers retired as 06s or better. And I have no doubt that if I'd have

• 49:21Speaker 03

  taken that 05

• 49:25Speaker 03

  rank, that I'd have hit 06 by the time. But I didn't, so there's no sense crying over it. But it would have been, you know, a person who spends their whole life preparing to go to war, whether they say so or not, probably wants to go to war and prove themselves. And so I kind of wish I had stayed in and gone there, but I didn't know that at the time. You know, so it is what it is. I went on and started a business, and that was 30 years ago.

• 49:56Jack Murphy?

  And so your business was basically, if I remember right here, it was making waterproof bags for dive operations.

• 50:03Speaker 03

  Well, I was making scuba bags. When I first retired, I wanted to do an import-export business, but I never could get any traction. And then, since I was a diver, I knew dive people, and someone asked me if I could make scuba bags. I was already going to Asia, you know, sourcing and doing other stuff, so I just learned everything I could about making scuba bags. And we made them. We started out designing them here in the States and making them in Asia. And then in 2007, with numerous requests for US-made stuff, I decided to form the US operation.

• 50:46Speaker 03

  So we built the factory, we opened a factory here in the States, you know, and now we make what's called Berry Amendment, or, you know, military bags and stuff, along with other commercial bags. But we started out making scuba bags. That's what we did. And at one time, we were, you know, one of the leaders in the industry in making good, tough bags.

• 51:12Jack Murphy?

  So you have, I mean, tell us a little bit about like this factory. It's like a sew shop, essentially?

• 51:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a 10,000-square-foot facility where we have 40, 50 sewing machines. And, you know, we make, we make what's called a job shop, so we make anything other than clothing and large tent structures, something that's too big for it. But we make cases, covers, bags, everything from little mesh bags for the medical industry to rolling luggage and big stuff. We make...

• 51:56Speaker 03

  We make the fuel splash guards for the F-22 fighter squad runs. We make the wheel covers for those same F-22s.

• 52:09Speaker 03

  We make other gear bags for military. We make parachute recovery bags that are primarily, they're specifically designed to get wet parachutes out of the water from MAROP. So when you jump into the water, you're, by the time you get back to shore, all the water's drained off. So those are purchased by special operations people, some foreign countries. NASA has bought some in the past. So, yeah, that's the type of thing we make.

• 52:40Jack Murphy?

  And you said there's a commercial side of it as well. Like if people wanted to go and see, you know, what the company offers, is there a place they can find you online or elsewhere?

• 52:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, our website is americansewing.net.

• 52:55Speaker 03

  And basically it's just a representation of the type of things we do so people can see what we do is not necessarily a website where you can buy stuff.

• 53:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:11Speaker 03

  And in commercial side, if you have a company that's making a widget, you need a case to put that widget in, you call us and we make the, we make the cover, case, whatever for you. But like I say, we do little mesh bags for Medline, different medical industry things. We, basically anything, anything that's sewn together.

• 53:32Jack Murphy?

  And you also mentioned that after you retired, you kind of reconnected with your family. What was that like?

• 53:41Speaker 03

  Well, by the time I was retiring, they were also retiring from different things, except for my brother who was in Africa. And, you know, it gave us all the time to, to connect. And then we connected more. I hadn't really talked to my dad much in years. And it got a little...

• 54:08Speaker 03

  tedious because he was a preacher and he prophetized and he always wanted to know if I was going to church or not, which of course I wasn't and that created some tension. So one year, one day on a Saturday evening, he called me up and did not mention any of that one time. All he wanted to do was talk about how my day was going, how the business was going. We had a really great talk and connection and every Saturday evening to the day he died after that, he would call me and we'd have typical conversation. It was an awesome reconnection with him after so many years.

• 54:47Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, no, that's incredible.

• 54:48Speaker 03

  You know, the point is, is if you wanna, if you wanna connect with parents or children, connect to them on their level.

• 54:58Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, no, good point. And otherwise, how has retirement been treating you? You're still down in the Tampa area?

• 55:07Speaker 03

  We do. We still live in Tampa. We still have the business. I'm 72 years old, so I'm ready to retire.

• 55:16Jack Murphy?

  A second time?

• 55:16Speaker 03

  We'll see what happens. I'd much rather spend my time building old Land Rovers.

• 55:23Jack Murphy?

  And you enter those in like, like, like, truck competitions and things like that, where they come and judge them?

• 55:29Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, in the, in the Land Rover world, kinda like the Jeep world, you have events where you go riding through the woods, through the forest, you know, up and down hills and through, through the deepest mud you can find and stuff. So, yeah, I mean, I have some Hangar Queens that I just take to car shows. And then I have one that, you know, is outfitted with snorkels and things like that to go through deep mud and water. I'll take that to those trail events.

• 56:00Jack Murphy?

  And then, you know, I also gotta ask, I mean, what, what was the inspiration that led you to writing this book? I mean, the book is even called The Gray Man, A Life Lived Under the Radar, and you, you are kinda that guy. So what inspired you to write the book?

• 56:16Speaker 03

  What kicked me in the butt to get me going was my, my son gave me a Christmas present, which was a, a subscription to a company that will send you a question each week and you answer the question and at, at the end of the year, they put together a book about your life. Well, right off the bat, I realized those questions were nonsense. So I did finish that up, but I ended up writing my own chapter soon. When I got done with that, I said, you know, this is, I need to put this in a better format. And so I rewrote the book and rewrote it a couple of times and sent it off for approval a couple of times before I finally

• 57:00Speaker 03

  got it all approved by the government and stuff. But the, the whole gray man thing, I mean, when you're going through boarding, well, first of all, I grew up as a loner in Africa, out hunting by myself and stuff. Then you go to boarding school and you're keeping your head low, um, to keep away from bullies and what have you. Um, and then, you know, later on, I was a, a human officer. I basically lived my whole life kinda, kinda trying to stay out of the limelight, uh, which was a detriment in my business life because I was not nearly the salesman that I should have been. I just am not, not that outgoing.

• 57:45Speaker 03

  But yeah, I think gray man fits.

• 57:51Jack Murphy?

  And, uh, the book can be found on Amazon. Uh, I hope people will go and check it out. And David, is there any, any other reflections that you have from this, your life experience or your experience writing the book? Anything else that you'd like to talk about?

• 58:12Speaker 03

  I don't know. I, um, like I said, I hope people buy the book. I've had, uh, I've had good comments. I've been on a couple of other podcasts that are more related to missionary kids and, and things like that. But, you know, maybe it'll help someone. It's not really an education on, on anything military. It's just, uh, like I said, it was, it was done, I'm, I did it for a historical reference for my kids. And the fact, and then people started saying, well, you need to get this out there more because other people be interested. And that's why I started doing, you know, Rick, uh, Prado encouraged me to do the podcast

• 58:53Speaker 03

  and get it out there more. So I'm glad he did. I'm, I'm enjoying the experience.

• 58:58Jack Murphy?

  And, and I should also point out to people that your, your book here, this memoir is filled with pictures. And I mean, some of these pictures, uh, like your dad, I think this was your father doing dentistry in West Africa. I mean, it's just totally surreal.

• 59:13Speaker 03

  Um, yeah. My, my father was a, a dentist, uh, you know, and, um, he contracted hepatitis, uh, from working in people's mouths. That's before they knew what age was and stuff. And he lived many years after that, but eventually, uh, liver cancer killed him. Uh, so he literally gave his life for those people he served over there.

• 59:38Jack Murphy?

  It's amazing. And I, I think we have one question, uh, for you from a viewer.

• 59:44Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah, David, um, for, you had a pretty long business career. What are some lessons learned from throughout owning your own business? And you did mention a little bit about, uh, you know, you're not as outgoing and salesminy enough, but any other lessons learned from running a business?

• 1:00:02Speaker 03

  You know, if, if I had any success, it was because I was, uh, I was always true to my word. I was always honest. Uh, um,

• 1:00:16Speaker 03

  And people noticed that and throughout my business career, I had several different occasions where, where important wealthy people asked me to help them or offered to help my business. Uh, so, uh, yeah, you've got to be reliable. You've got to be honest. And if you do that, successful Apollo.

• 1:00:45Jack Murphy?

  Definitely. Uh, and again, the book is Gray Man, A Life Lived Under the Radar by David Carmichael. Um, we'll have some links down the description of this podcast and on the video, if you're watching this on YouTube, you can click on it and get to the book that way. And, uh, your website, was it Americansowers.net?

• 1:01:05Speaker 03

  American Sewing, American, yeah, Americansewing.net.

• 1:01:12Jack Murphy?

  Okay. Well, we'll have a link to that, too. Um, David, thank you for doing this interview and spending some time with us today.

• 1:01:20Speaker 03

  Thank you. I appreciate it.

• 1:01:22Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, I hope folks will go and check out the book and thank you everyone who joined us tonight and we will see you next time.

• 1:01:31Jack Murphy?

  Hey guys, I want to take a moment to tell you about the Team House Podcast Newsletter. If you go and subscribe, it's totally free and what it will do is aggregate all of our data, all of our content that we put out, uh, the things that are on the Team House, on our geopolitics podcast, Eyes On, uh, things that I write journalistically with Sean Naylor on the high side, uh, anything else that we have going on, books we recommend, uh, upcoming guests that we have coming on the show and also, you know, filtering in some fun stuff in there as well. Um, if you go and check it out, we send it out just once a week. We don't want to spam you guys. It's just a kind of roll up of all of our content on a

• 1:02:14Jack Murphy?

  weekly basis. You can find our newsletter at teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join.

• 1:02:22Jack Murphy?

  Again, the website for that is teamhousepodcast.kit.com/join. So we hope to see you there.

• 1:02:29Speaker 05

  Underdog already has team picks, player props, money lines, spreads, you name it, they got it. But apparently, somebody over there said, you know what's missing? Screaming like a maniac about a rookie card on your couch. And we love them for that. Because Underdog now has rips. You get a digital pack, starting at just five bucks. You check the live odds, see which grails you could pull, then rip it open to reveal a real, physical card. And the grails are no joke. They have cards up to $125,000 in value, and plenty to pull. From football and basketball to Pokémon, with new limited edition packs dropping regularly. Even cooler, you can decide to keep the card and Underdog will ship it straight to your home, or sell it back instantly at 100% of its fair market value.

• 1:03:13Speaker 05

  And the cash goes right in your account. No listing it online, no stranger lowballing you in the messages. Just rip, reveal, and cash out instantly. Or make some room on your shelf. Download Underdog and get in on the chase. Get five free rips packs when you deposit $5. Real rips, real cards, real cash. Only on Underdog. Unleash your dog. 18+, terms apply. Top grails are extremely rare.

• 1:03:38Speaker 00

  Ready to feel more energized and in control of your health? If you've tried diet and exercise but still aren't seeing the results you're looking for, it may be time to explore a different approach. At orderlymeds.com, you can connect with licensed medical providers through a simple virtual process, all from the comfort of home. And find out if a GLP-1 treatment may be right for you. Learn more at orderlymeds.com. That's orderlymeds.com. Compounded medications are not FDA approved. Eligibility determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

• 1:04:08Speaker 07

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:04:38Jack Murphy?

  The link will be down in the description.

• 1:04:44Speaker 05

  Underdog already has team picks, player props, money lines, spreads, you name it, they got it. But apparently, somebody over there said, "You know what's missing? Screaming like a maniac about a rookie card on your couch." And we love them for that. Because Underdog now has rips. You get a digital pack, starting at just five bucks. You check the live odds, see which grails you could pull, then rip it open to reveal a real, physical card. And the grails are no joke. They have cards up to $125,000 in value. And plenty to pull. From football and basketball to Pokémon. With new, limited edition packs dropping regularly. Even cooler, you can decide to keep the card and Underdog will ship it straight to your home. Or sell it back instantly at 100% of its fair market value. And the cash goes right in your account.

• 1:05:29Speaker 05

  No listing it online, no stranger lowballing you in the messages. Just rip, reveal, and cash out instantly. Or make some room on your shelf. Download Underdog and get in on the chase. Get five free rips packs when you deposit $5. Real rips, real cards, real cash. Only on Underdog. Unleash your dog. 18+, terms apply. Top grails are extremely rare.

• 1:05:52Speaker 06

  Looking for a new way to take control of your health? If diet, exercise, and willpower alone haven't gotten you where you want to be, visit orderlymeds.com to learn about GLP-1 treatment options. With a convenient virtual process, you can connect with licensed medical providers from home and see if treatment may be appropriate for you. Visit orderlymeds.com today. That's orderlymeds.com. Compounded medications are not FDA-approved. Eligibility determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

• 1:06:22Speaker 07

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:06:59Speaker 05

  Games on a break? Instead of doom scrolling, try rips on Underdog. Rip real player cards worth real money right there in the app. It's instant cash in the palm of your hand. Buy a digital pack, rip it open on your phone, and reveal a real, physical card. Football, basketball, Pokemon. Yes, Pokemon, and more. The best part? Packs start at just $5. And if you pull something you don't want to let go of just yet, have it shipped straight to your door. Want the cash? Sell it back instantly at 100% of its fair market value. No listing, no negotiating, no stranger asking if you'll trade it for a used jet ski, even though jet skis are super sick. Best part? There are some serious grails in the mix, with maximum card values reaching up to $125,000,

• 1:07:44Speaker 05

  depending on your pack tier. You can also check the live odds and see what you could pull before you rip, and what other cards are being pulled by fans. Download Underdog and get in on the chase. Get five free rips packs when you deposit $5. Real rips, real cards, real cash. Only on Underdog. Unleash your dog. 18+, terms apply. Top grails are extremely rare.

• 1:08:05Speaker 00

  Ready to feel more energized and in control of your health? If you've tried diet and exercise but still aren't seeing the results you're looking for, it may be time to explore a different approach. At OrderlyMedes.com, you can connect with licensed medical providers through a simple virtual process, all from the comfort of home, and find out if a GLP-1 treatment may be right for you. Learn more at OrderlyMedes.com. That's OrderlyMedes.com. Compounded medications are not FDA-approved. Eligibility determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at OnDeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:09:11Speaker 05

  Games on a break? Don't doom scroll. Try rips on Underdog. Buy a digital pack, rip it open, and reveal a real physical card. Football, basketball, even Pokemon. Packs start at just $5. Ship it straight to your door, or sell it back instantly at full market value. Max value up to $125,000. Download Underdog and get in on the chase. Deposit $5, get 5 free packs. Real rips, real cards, real cash. Only on Underdog. Unleash your dog. 18+, terms apply. Top grails are extremely rare. Ready to feel energized and in control again? At Orderly Med's, we have helped thousands just like you take charge of their health with a GLP-1. If you've tried dieting, exercising, and relying on willpower and nothing seems to stick,

• 1:09:55Speaker 05

  then it might be time to talk to a licensed provider about your options. That's what Orderly Med's is for. This fall, choose healthier habits for yourself with a visit to OrderlyMed's.com. You don't need to visit with a physician in person to become eligible. Orderly Med's has a simple, virtual process. Connect with licensed medical professionals who can determine whether a GLP-1 treatment may be appropriate for you wherever you are. Get started from the comfort of home online. Change your habits and consider a new approach to feeling your best. Visit OrderlyMed's.com to learn more. That's OrderlyMed's.com. OrderlyMed's.com. Gain confidence and choose better habits this fall. Compounded medications are not FDA-approved. Eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary.

• 1:10:40Speaker 05

  See website for details.

• 1:10:42Speaker 07

  Cash flow crutch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at OnDeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:11:17Speaker 05

  Games on a break? Don't doom scroll. Try rips on Underdog. Buy a digital pack, rip it open, and reveal a real, physical card. Football, basketball, even Pokémon. Packs start at just $5. Ship it straight to your door or sell it back instantly at full market value. Max value up to $125,000. Download Underdog and get in on the chase. Deposit $5, get 5 free packs. Real rips, real cards, real cash. Only on Underdog. Unleash your dog. 18+, terms apply. Top grails are extremely rare.

• 1:11:48Speaker 00

  Ready to feel energized and in control again? At Orderly Meds, we have helped thousands just like you take charge of their health with a GLP-1. If you've tried dieting, exercising, and relying on willpower and nothing seems to stick, then it might be time to talk to a licensed provider about your options. That's what Orderly Meds is for. This fall, choose healthier habits for yourself with a visit to OrderlyMeds.com. You don't need to visit with a physician in person to become eligible. Orderly Meds has a simple virtual process. Connect with licensed medical professionals who can determine whether a GLP-1 treatment may be appropriate for you wherever you are. Getting started from the comfort of home, online. Change your habits and consider a new approach to feeling your best. Visit OrderlyMeds.com to learn more.

• 1:12:33Speaker 00

  That's OrderlyMeds.com. OrderlyMeds.com. Gain confidence and choose better habits this fall. Compounded medications are not FDA-approved. Eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at OnDeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:13:24Speaker 05

  Games on a break? Don't doom scroll. Try rips on Underdog. Buy a digital pack, rip it open, and reveal a real, physical card. Football, basketball, even Pokémon. Packs start at just $5. Ship it straight to your door or sell it back instantly at full market value. Max value up to $125,000. Download Underdog and get in on the chase. Deposit $5, get five free packs. Real rips, real cards, real cash. Only on Underdog. Unleash your dog. 18+, terms apply. Top grails are extremely rare. Ready to feel energized and in control again? At Orderly Meds, we have helped thousands just like you take charge of their health with a GLP-1. If you've tried dieting, exercising, and relying on willpower and nothing seems to stick, then it might be time to talk

• 1:14:09Speaker 05

  to a licensed provider about your options. That's what Orderly Meds is for. This fall, choose healthier habits for yourself with a visit to OrderlyMeds.com. You don't need to visit with a physician in person to become eligible. Orderly Meds has a simple, virtual process. Connect with licensed medical professionals who can determine whether a GLP-1 treatment may be appropriate for you wherever you are. Get started from the comfort of home online. Change your habits and consider a new approach to feeling your best. Visit OrderlyMeds.com to learn more. That's OrderlyMeds.com. OrderlyMeds.com. Gain confidence and choose better habits this fall. Compounded medications are not FDA-approved. Eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.

• 1:14:55Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of 5-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at OnDeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:15:26Speaker 01

  ChatGPT for Teens is designed to help teens learn, think critically, and grow their skills. ChatGPT for Teens supports active learning by breaking concepts down. Rather than giving teens the answer, study mode helps teens work through problems.

• 1:15:39Speaker 05

  And interactive quizzes test their knowledge and provide immediate feedback. Safety protections are on by default. And parental controls offer families additional options like setting study hours and quiet hours. Visit chatgpt.com PARENTS to learn more. Games on a break? Instead of doom scrolling, try rips on Underdog. Rip real player cards worth real money right there in the app. It's instant cash in the palm of your hand. Buy a digital pack, rip it open on your phone and reveal a real physical card. Football, basketball, Pokemon, yes, Pokemon and more. The best part? Packs start at just $5. And if you pull something you don't want to let go of just yet, have it shipped straight to your door. Want the cash? Sell it back instantly at 100% of its fair market value.

• 1:16:24Speaker 05

  No listing, no negotiating, no stranger asking if you'll trade it for a used jet ski, even though jet skis are super sick. Best part? There are some serious grails in the mix with maximum card values reaching up to $125,000 depending on your pack tier. You can also check the live odds and see what you could pull before you rip and what other cards are being pulled by fans. Download Underdog and get in on the chase. Get five free rips packs when you deposit $5. Real rips, real cards, real cash. Only on Underdog. Unleash your dog. 18 plus terms apply. Top grails are extremely rare.

• 1:17:00Speaker 00

  Ready to feel energized and in control again? At Orderly Meds, we have helped thousands just like you take charge of their health with a GLP-1. If you've tried dieting, exercising and relying on willpower and nothing seems to stick, then it might be time to talk to a licensed provider about your options. That's what Orderly Meds is for. This fall, choose healthier habits for yourself with a visit to orderlymeds.com. You don't need to visit with a physician in person to become eligible. Orderly Meds has a simple virtual process. Connect with licensed medical professionals who can determine whether a GLP-1 treatment may be appropriate for you wherever you are. Getting started from the comfort of home online. Change your habits and consider a new approach to feeling your best. Visit orderlymeds.com to learn more.

• 1:17:44Speaker 00

  That's orderlymeds.com. Orderlymeds.com. Gain confidence and choose better habits this fall. Compounded medications are not FDA approved. Eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details.