Breakfast at Tiffany's

When Hollywood producers got their hands on Truman Capote’s “Breakfast at Tiffany’s”, they thought they’d found the perfect RomCom. There was just one problem: there was no rom in that com because the narrator was gay. In this episode, Chris and Lizzie break down the Audrey Hepburn classic and discover why she was reluctant to take the part, which actor caused the most trouble on set, and how the cinematographer got electrocuted… at Tiffany’s! Plus we discuss the lasting impact of Mickey Rooney’s troubled performance, and discover why Truman Capote himself wanted to spit on the director. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lizzie Bassett?

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• 0:45Lizzie Bassett?

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• 1:04Chris Winterbauer?

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• 1:52Speaker 02

  And action.

• 1:53Chris Winterbauer?

  It's going down. I'm yelling, "Timber, you better move, you better dance." That's right, we're back. It's What Went Wrong, your favorite podcast, full stop that just so happens to be about movies and how it's nearly impossible to make them, let alone a good one, let alone a tragic party girl story that I didn't understand as a child. And we are so excited to get into it. Holly Golightly, who ran so Kesha could stumble. Hey. Lizzie Bassett is here with me. No, I love Kesha. Yeah, you better not.

• 2:21Lizzie Bassett?

  Smirch Kesha.

• 2:22Chris Winterbauer?

  No, Kesha's great. I was thinking about Chandelier. I was thinking about Timber. I was thinking about all my Party Girl anthems. I'm Chris Winterbauer, joined as always by my co-host, Lizzie Bassett. Lizzie, what have you picked for us today? Let's get into it.

• 2:33Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, I have chosen Breakfast at Tiffany's for us today. And I picked this because, you know, I knew we were kind of going into a bit of a Truman Capote hole here on what went wrong for a minute.

• 2:45Lizzie Bassett?

  A dark place, but I was not expecting this to be as interesting an episode as I think it is. Well, let's hear from you first, Christopher. Had you seen this movie before and what did you think about it upon watching it for the podcast?

• 2:59Chris Winterbauer?

  I had seen it before. I don't remember when, sometime in adolescence. And at an age when I did not appreciate this type of story in particular, I was more into action movies, nor movies of this era. I was more into modern movies. And I have to say, with one element, excepting, I actually really liked this movie. And I really enjoyed it. I thought the Technicolor aspects of it actually looked really beautiful. I think it's interesting. I think it's a little messy. I think the first two thirds works better than the last third. I really love the relationship between Holly and Fred, as it were, until it becomes romantic. And then I become less engaged in the story.

• 3:37Lizzie Bassett?

  There's probably a reason for that, yes.

• 3:39Chris Winterbauer?

  Just my personal instincts. And I also love Patricia Neal.

• 3:44Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, she's great.

• 3:45Chris Winterbauer?

  And I think she's the best actor of the three of them, in my opinion.

• 3:48Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 3:49Chris Winterbauer?

  And I like George Peppard in this movie. And Audrey Hepburn's look is unparalleled in many ways. It's so iconic. But Patricia Neal is like, watch out darling, I'll show you how to really do it here.

• 4:01Lizzie Bassett?

  I know.

• 4:01Chris Winterbauer?

  Comes into the room. She's so good. And I really actually feel that way about a number of the peripheral actors. I really like.

• 4:06Lizzie Bassett?

  Martin Balsam as well.

• 4:07Chris Winterbauer?

  Martin Balsam as well. And so as the movie whittles away at the peripheral elements and just focuses on our two heroes, and then their relationship becomes, I think, less interesting as it moves from an unexpected friendship into a very expected romance. And so I do still really like this movie, but for me, the first hour and 20 minutes really sings. And then we just kind of get into a territory where I feel like. Okay, you know, I've kind of seen this, or it's not as interesting. It doesn't feel as Capote-esque. I haven't read the book. I don't know. And the last thing I'll present to you as a theory is, at first, I was thinking, oh, is George Peppard, is Paul, Fred, Harper Lee, and is Holly Go Lightly Truman Capote? And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. And then I just really felt like, these are both Truman Capote.

• 4:50Chris Winterbauer?

  That's, I really felt like he was just writing two angles of himself interacting with each other in like, the first half of the film, very much. And you can tell me what's right or what's wrong, but that was my interpretation. Anyway, all to say, really love the first hour and 20 minutes. Really like this movie overall. And the Mr. Yuni Oshie, Mickey Rooney section should be excised from the movie, lit on fire and buried in the ground.

• 5:10Lizzie Bassett?

  It's so rough.

• 5:11Chris Winterbauer?

  It is.

• 5:12Lizzie Bassett?

  We'll talk about it.

• 5:12Chris Winterbauer?

  And is there a weird meta element, too, where they make reference to Andy Hardy, which is the character he played? I believe she says, like, did you fall in love, Andy Hardy? Patricia Neils, I swear, I heard her say that.

• 5:23Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, you're right.

• 5:24Chris Winterbauer?

  And that's the Mickey, I believe that's who Mickey Rooney became famous for, playing Andy Hardy in the Andy Hardy movies. And so it was like a weird meta quality to this movie. I said, get out of here, Ryan Reynolds. All right, go ahead, Lizzie.

• 5:36Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, we had a very different experience of this movie. I had never seen it.

• 5:40Chris Winterbauer?

  Really? You've never seen Breakfast?

• 5:42Lizzie Bassett?

  No.

• 5:42Chris Winterbauer?

  Interesting. That's so cool.

• 5:43Lizzie Bassett?

  I've seen a lot of movies from this time period, so I was kind of surprised that I hadn't seen it. And now, I think I know why. So, most of the movies I saw from this time period, growing up, I was exposed to because of my mom. And when I was thinking about this, I was like, why haven't I seen this? Because she loved Truman Capote. And this is obviously based on a Truman Capote novel or novella. So I decided to read the novella first. And that was my mistake, I think. I loved it. I highly recommend everyone read it. It is really good. It's very complex. We're gonna get into a lot of the differences, because, boy, are there a lot. And then, when I watched the movie, you know, I knew about the Mickey Rooney stuff. And obviously, I've seen pictures of this movie. I'm very familiar with what it looks like and everything.

• 6:29Lizzie Bassett?

  And I was expecting the Mickey Rooney stuff to be, you know, offensive. So that didn't surprise me. What did surprise me is that they turned a really complex, fascinating, character study, and really A study of a friendship into something so saccharine and to me just unbelievably shallow that I was left with such a bad taste in my mouth from this movie. And we'll get into the reasons why and what they changed and everything. But I just felt like it was fluff in the worst way. And you know, they Martin Ballsum asks, you know, is she or isn't she? Is she a phony? And that is a line from the novel, but it plays so differently here because it's like,

• 7:11Lizzie Bassett?

  yeah, 100% she's a phony in the movie. Everyone is, and that's not the case in the book. And I think I was just so like deeply disappointed that this had become a classic, I guess. And I'm sure that that has to do with the fact that I read the novel first, because I totally understand why people love this. I think in terms of the good, it looks incredible. The costumes, which we'll get into, two people are responsible for them, although one for the most famous ones. The way that it's shot, I love the color, you know, there's so much about it that I really do enjoy. However, it's not the story, so let's get into it and let's talk about everything. And by the way, we've had this discussion many times.

• 7:52Lizzie Bassett?

  I'm sure people are going to chime in saying that, oh, you know, Mickey Rooney playing a Japanese character. That's just like, that's just how it was done back then. And you guys don't need to look at it through, you know, a modern lens. First of all, that's not true. That's not how it was done. I mean, yes, there were actors performing in yellowface, but this was, if anything, harkening back by like 20 plus years to what people had been doing prior to World War II. My understanding is that, I mean, this is 15 years after the internment camps that happened during World War II.

• 8:24Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, it's important to draw a distinction between, you know, Alec Guinness in

• 8:27Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, exactly.

• 8:29Chris Winterbauer?

  Which is very different than this.

• 8:31Lizzie Bassett?

  Very different.

• 8:32Chris Winterbauer?

  We have to be able to distinguish between the two.

• 8:33Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 8:34Chris Winterbauer?

  Alec Guinness, again, you can still say, okay, now we know we wouldn't do that anymore. Okay, fine. But at the time, he's clearly attempting to bring a real person to life in the most dignified way possible.

• 8:44Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, everyone in Lawrence of Arabia is.

• 8:46Chris Winterbauer?

  Mickey Rooney is doing, is doing the opposite in this movie.

• 8:49Lizzie Bassett?

  My god.

• 8:49Chris Winterbauer?

  Also, the writer, the director, it's not just Mickey Rooney. Rooney, is everybody involved?

• 8:52Lizzie Bassett?

  We'll get to that.

• 8:53Chris Winterbauer?

  Okay, well, you tell me where I'm wrong.

• 8:55Lizzie Bassett?

  He's more responsible for it than you might think. But I guess my point is that they're making a very distinct choice here. And it did not go unnoticed. And people did find this offensive when it came out. Not everyone and not to the level that we do today. But it was like, this was a big weird swing to put in this movie. And my understanding is that a lot of this caricature of Asians was pretty prevalent in like silent films and leading up through the 30s. But then when World War II happened, you've got the internment camps. You have actual photographs of the aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That put a bit of a damper on this kind of caricature. And you started to see a little bit of difference happening over the course of the 50s. Now, I'm not saying there weren't still white actors playing Asian characters.

• 9:39Lizzie Bassett?

  There absolutely were, but it was not this kind of caricature. So it's very interesting to me that they chose to put that in this movie, especially because it ain't present in the novel at all. So let's get into it. All right. Breakfast at Tiffany's is directed by Blake Edwards. It has a screenplay by George Axelrod, based on the novella by Truman Capote. It's produced by Martin Giroux and Richard Shepherd, was released by Paramount. It had a budget of just over $2 million, which is a lot. And it was released in October of 1961. It stars Audrey Hepburn, George Pephard, Patricia Neal, Buddy Ebsen, Martin Balsam, Mickey Rooney, and more. Now, our main sources for today, among many, many others, are Fifth Avenue 5 a.m.,

• 10:21Lizzie Bassett?

  Audrey Hepburn, Breakfast at Tiffany's, and The Dawn of the Modern Woman by Sam Wasson, and The Many Lives of Mr. Yunioshi, Yellowface, and The Queer Buzz of Breakfast at Tiffany's by Melissa Pruxashart, which is a really, really interesting academic paper that I highly recommend people go read. So around the spring of 1955, Truman Capote, who was at this point a successful novelist, screenwriter, and playwright, could not get Holly Go Lightly off his mind. He later told Playboy magazine, quote, "The reason I wrote about Holly, outside of the fact that I liked her so much, was that she was such a symbol of all these girls who come to New York and spin in the sun for a moment like mayflies and then disappear. I wanted to rescue one girl from that anonymity and preserve her for posterity." Despite many, many women coming forward to claim that they had been the inspiration

• 11:05Lizzie Bassett?

  for the character of Holly, she didn't really belong to any one of them. Though Capote did pull elements of the character from real life. He was a fixture on the New York social scene. He really surrounded himself with wealthy, brilliant, beautiful female friends, better known and immortalized by Ryan Murphy, I guess, as The Swans. I don't know if you saw Feud, Capote versus The Swans.

• 11:23Chris Winterbauer?

  I haven't seen it, but I'm aware.

• 11:25Lizzie Bassett?

  It's good. It's interesting. There was Carol Marcus, Doris Lilly, Phoebe Pierce, Una Chaplin, Charlie Chaplin's wife, Gloria Vanderbilt, of course, Anderson Cooper's mummy, and Babe Paley, wife of CBS founder Bill Paley, played by Naomi Watson, Capote versus The Swans. And she apparently had six closets just for her nightgowns. Now, some theorize that Capote wrote Go Lightly as sort of a fantasy of who Babe Paley could have been, had she not been in a controlling, loveless, and sexless marriage, which she was, unfortunately. And this is one that apparently Truman Capote told her to treat like a job. He was like, "Clock in, babe," you know? And then there was Capote's own mother, born Lily May Fock in Monroeville, Alabama. Capote's mother had, for a long period, abandoned him to be raised by her extended family when

• 12:10Lizzie Bassett?

  she ran off to New York to be with a married lover. He would later join her in Manhattan, but it was during this time in Alabama that he met Nell Harper Lee. Her father was a lawyer. The two would watch his trials like they were at the movies. What does this sound like, Chris?

• 12:23Chris Winterbauer?

  To Kill a Mockingbird.

• 12:25Lizzie Bassett?

  To Kill a Mockingbird, of course. She would eventually write the classic novel and base the character of Dill, at least loosely, on Capote. If you want a little bit more detail on their relationship, go back and listen to Friday's episode on In Cold Blood. And by the way, that also may have been what colored this for me so poorly is that, you know, we got to read In Cold Blood and focus on that story and that adaptation, and it's so remarkable. And I think the movie is really remarkable. And I kept wondering, like, Breakfast at Tiffany's just doesn't sound like a Truman Capote story. It's because this movie is not.

• 12:58Chris Winterbauer?

  But also, In Cold Blood wasn't exactly... It was a little bit of a departure, too.

• 13:02Lizzie Bassett?

  It was, but if you read Breakfast at Tiffany's, I guess that's what I mean.

• 13:06Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, because his writing still feels like his writing.

• 13:08Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, exactly. The way that he writes about people is the same.

• 13:12Chris Winterbauer?

  Yes.

• 13:13Lizzie Bassett?

  So Lily May also changed her name to Nina to try and sound more sophisticated. Is this ringing any bells?

• 13:19Chris Winterbauer?

  Lulamay to Holly?

• 13:20Lizzie Bassett?

  That's correct. Lulamay Barnes is what Holly Golightly's birth name was. She, of course, ran off on her family, though in this case, they were stepchildren, and she was a child bride.

• 13:29Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, softened that one effectively, meaning easier to understand.

• 13:33Lizzie Bassett?

  That she had a reason to leave?

• 13:35Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah. That she had a reason to leave.

• 13:36Lizzie Bassett?

  Pretty understandable, yes. Now, the novella is told from the perspective of Holly's upstairs neighbor, a nameless narrator who she chooses to call Fred because he reminds her of her brother. He very pointedly shares the same birthday as Truman Capote, and though it's never explicitly spelled out that he's gay, it seems pretty heavily implied.

• 13:52Chris Winterbauer?

  Mm hmm.

• 13:53Lizzie Bassett?

  Also, there is no romantic relationship between him and Holly Golightly because, again, he is gay. You could definitely say he is in love with her, though. He says so himself, but it's neither romantic nor sexual. In fact, he describes it as a kind of jealousy, which I think, given how Capote would later interact with and sort of betray his swans, feels very on brand for him. Now, he had one full-length novel, Other Voices, Other Rooms, under his belt before shopping around Breakfast at Tiffany's, and many short stories, articles, a couple of screenwriting gigs. He was quite well-known, especially among literary circles, but I don't know that he qualified as, like, famous-famous yet in terms of across the country. In 1958, Harper's Bazaar purchased the manuscript for $2,000 and planned to publish it in their

• 14:35Lizzie Bassett?

  July issue, but the editor, who had originally greenlit the purchase, was fired and replaced by a new editor who was clutching her pearls at the language Capote used in the novella. And it's pretty, uh, it is pretty shocking. Like, some of the words that are used in this, the way that she discusses what she's doing, I mean, she's a call girl, like, for sure. She has a form of escort, maybe more of like the girlfriend experience than, you know, something else, but it's pretty explicitly laid out. She refers to lesbians with a word that starts with D. There's a lot of commentary around race, although it's very complicated and certainly not where it lands with Mr. Yuniochi. It's also nothing to do with that character at all. So Harper's backed out of the deal, and Capote was pretty furious.

• 15:19Lizzie Bassett?

  But lucky for him, Esquire swooped in and offered to match the $2,000 plus $1,000 more, and this would be about $45,000 today. So given what we know, he was paid for in cold blood, that's, he's obviously not at the level that he will get to for that. In November of 1958, Esquire published the full novella, and Random House published it as a book, and it sold out immediately. So suck on that Harper's bizarre. Capote referred to all of the women coming out of the woodwork to take credit as the Holly Go Lightly sweepstakes, but there was a major difference between Holly and the women in Truman's life, in that she was completely independent and she did whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted. In fact, the most independent woman he knew was probably the least like Holly. It was tomboy Harper Lee.

• 15:59Chris Winterbauer?

  Mm hmm.

• 16:00Lizzie Bassett?

  Back in July of that same year, the reader report for the then unpublished Breakfast at Tiffany's had landed on the desk of Marty Giroux, entertainment lawyer turned movie producer, who had just inked a massive 12-picture deal with Paramount alongside his business partner, Richard Shepherd. And here's what the report said. "Well-written, offbeat, amusing, but it is unfortunately too similar to Isherwood's work, Goodbye to Berlin, dramatized as I Am a Camera. The type of character is the same, only the incidents and chronology are different. And in any event, this is more of a character sketch than a story. Not recommended!" It's in all caps at the end, in case you can't tell.

• 16:32Chris Winterbauer?

  Sprawling New Yorker shit.

• 16:34Lizzie Bassett?

  Man, I was saving that for later for you to chime in with, so save it. Now, it's absolutely true that Holly Go Lightly owes quite a bit to Sally Bowles. They are kind of the first two rungs on the manic pixie dream girl ladder, but I don't agree that the work as a whole is too similar. But Capote's name was enough to pique Giroux's interest, and he decided that against his reader's judgment, they should go after Breakfast at Tiffany's. So his production company, Giroux Shepherd, was very small, and they did not have a lot of money, but they did have a reputation for protecting their writers. They had recently gotten into it with what went wrong favorite, Sam Spiegel, over some casting in their adaptation of Tennessee Williams' Orpheus Descending, which would become The Fugitive Kind, and they had backed Tennessee Williams and won. Now, Giroux knew that Capote's greatest wish was for the film adaptation to stay faithful to the

• 17:18Lizzie Bassett?

  book. And Capote actually had written at least one screenplay at this point. He had written Beat the Devil, co-written with John Huston, but he hadn't adapted any of his own work. And I think it's interesting that it seems like the assumption from the beginning was that he wouldn't adapt this. Now, I don't know why he didn't fight harder to do that. I have a very good idea why Marty Giroux didn't want him to do it, which we'll get to. So Giroux flew to New York to have lunch with Capote, and it turned out Capote had two very specific people in mind to star in the film already. Chris, any guesses as to who he wanted for Holly Go Lightly? She was a huge star at the time. She's blonde.

• 17:54Chris Winterbauer?

  Marilyn?

• 17:55Lizzie Bassett?

  Marilyn.

• 17:55Chris Winterbauer?

  Really?

• 17:56Lizzie Bassett?

  He kind of wrote it for her.

• 17:58Chris Winterbauer?

  I mean, she's so physically different than Audrey Hepburn that it's hard to see now. But yeah, I can totally, that's interesting.

• 18:04Lizzie Bassett?

  There's such a sweet sadness to Marilyn Monroe that I think is much closer to what's in the book.

• 18:10Chris Winterbauer?

  Certainly. She was obviously not a call girl, but the way in which she was treated as a piece of commercial property by, you know, studios, et cetera. Definitely.

• 18:23Lizzie Bassett?

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• 19:06Lizzie Bassett?

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• 19:50Lizzie Bassett?

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• 20:37Lizzie Bassett?

  Any guesses for the male lead? Holly's upstairs neighbor who shared Truman Capote's own birthday?

• 20:44Chris Winterbauer?

  Brock Hudson?

• 20:46Lizzie Bassett?

  Truman Capote.

• 20:48Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, oh, interesting. What's funny is George Pappard looks, if you squint, he looks a little like Truman Capote.

• 20:55Lizzie Bassett?

  How hard are you squinting, Chris?

• 20:57Chris Winterbauer?

  Squinting pretty hard. Well, I mean, give him some glasses, but he's like blonde at least. You know, he's a little like thicker. But the difference is the voice. You need the voice. Like that's, you know, and it's funny, Carmella had never heard Truman Capote speak.

• 21:09Lizzie Bassett?

  It's a treat.

• 21:09Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, I was like, that's why I was saying it feels like these are the two sides of Capote to me. Obviously, it's not. It's his mother and these other women he knows, but.

• 21:15Lizzie Bassett?

  No, I think you're right. I think he's, he's part of both of them.

• 21:18Chris Winterbauer?

  And then she was saying, you know, well, she really associated him with true crime. You know what I mean? And so she was thinking like, oh, he's this brooding, you know, guy. And I was like, no, no, you gotta see him on a talk show. He's amazing. He's the funniest person.

• 21:28Lizzie Bassett?

  He's so funny. Actually, yeah, you mentioned a talk show. I want to play just a little clip of him on Dick Cavett talking about just how smart he was and the fact that he was actually tested as part of like a nationwide IQ test when he was a child.

• 21:41Chris Winterbauer?

  Please play this.

• 21:42Speaker 03

  So I, my family were only too glad to see me go north. And I went up to Columbia to something called Horace Mann School.

• 21:59Speaker 03

  And then just, I had spent about a year being a guinea pig, doing nothing but being given the most complicated, extreme, extraordinary intelligence tests. And people used to come from all over, from California, from London, from everywhere to give me this test.

• 22:17Speaker 04

  Didn't you resent being tested and probed that much?

• 22:19Speaker 03

  I was so happy to be out of Alabama. I didn't feel.

• 22:25Lizzie Bassett?

  I love that. So inside Marty Jarrow is like, oh no, oh no, no, no, no, no. But he smartly told Capote, quote, "The role just isn't good enough for you. The male lead is just a pair of shoulders for her to lean on. You deserve something more dynamic." Though I have to say, a Truman Capote Marilyn Monroe two-hander would have been incredible. But Capote agreed and they closed the deal for $65,000 or about $740,000 today. And great news for Capote, Marilyn Monroe had already heard about Breakfast at Tiffany's and she was interested. Now, they actually were good friends. And Chris, if you would like to see what this movie could have been, take a look at this picture of the two of them dancing at the Club Morocco in 1955.

• 23:06Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, would have been great.

• 23:07Lizzie Bassett?

  He's so small.

• 23:09Chris Winterbauer?

  For all I know, she's wearing heels and he's close to her height, but he seems much shorter than her. And he also seems exhausted, sweaty, barely keeping up. And Marilyn Monroe is just like effortlessly looking at the camera.

• 23:19Lizzie Bassett?

  I know, she looks incredible. He's also holding her wrist. Was that a thing?

• 23:23Chris Winterbauer?

  I don't know.

• 23:23Lizzie Bassett?

  I guess the guy in the background's kind of doing it too. I don't know. I love it. It's so like weird and awkward and it's such a dichotomy between the two of them.

• 23:31Chris Winterbauer?

  It's very funny.

• 23:32Lizzie Bassett?

  But it turns out Marty Jarrow had not been entirely honest with Truman Capote in that lunch meeting because he had absolutely zero interest in casting Marilyn Monroe in Breakfast at Tiffany's. And there are two reasons. The first, he just straight up thought she was wrong for the part. And I can kind of see his reasoning here. He thought Holly had like a toughness to her and a spunk. And he really couldn't picture Marilyn making it on her own in New York City. I think that's unfair to Marilyn's talents. Apparently this man's never seen All About Eve, but you know, whatever. Now, she was also known to be an absolute nightmare on set by this point.

• 24:03Chris Winterbauer?

  That's what I was wondering if that's where he's coming from.

• 24:05Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah. She had just made the seven-year itch with Billy Wilder and Wilder had not been shy talking about what a problem she had been. They'd run behind because she required so many takes. And according to Wilder, quote, "It's not that she was mean. It's just that she had no sense of time nor conscience that 300 people had been waiting hours for her."

• 24:22Chris Winterbauer?

  Something they'd repeat on some like at home also.

• 24:25Lizzie Bassett?

  But still, Billy Wilder thought that Marilyn might be worth the gamble for Jarrow because she sold tickets. So Jarrow decided to think on it.

• 24:31Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, she's a huge star.

• 24:33Lizzie Bassett?

  She's huge.

• 24:34Chris Winterbauer?

  As big a name as you could hope to get for this movie, really.

• 24:38Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, but just a few days later, he received a call from our friend, the bat, Marilyn Monroe's acting coach, Paula Strasberg.

• 24:46Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, yeah.

• 24:47Lizzie Bassett?

  Saying Marilyn will not play a lady of the evening.

• 24:50Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 24:51Lizzie Bassett?

  And that was the end of that. By January of 1959, Jarrow and Shepherd realized that Marilyn might not be the only actress who would pass for this reason. So they needed a screenplay that could sanitize the raciness that is present in Capote's novel.

• 25:03Chris Winterbauer?

  Right. $50 for the powder room.

• 25:05Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 25:05Chris Winterbauer?

  Instead of, yeah.

• 25:06Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, no, that's in the novel, too. It's just very implied that she might be doing something in the powder room for those $50.

• 25:12Chris Winterbauer?

  I know. In this instance, it's like $50 and they're not going in there.

• 25:16Lizzie Bassett?

  And you're like, how do I get this job?

• 25:18Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 25:19Lizzie Bassett?

  And they figured it was going to be a hard book to adapt because, Chris, what is it?

• 25:24Chris Winterbauer?

  Sprawling New Yorker shit.

• 25:25Lizzie Bassett?

  There we go. Thank you. Very good. There's no real three act structure.

• 25:28Chris Winterbauer?

  You know, we should get a soundboard and just program a couple of quotes on it and one of them should be Nick Cage. Sprawling New Yorker shit.

• 25:36Lizzie Bassett?

  David, please, can we get it?

• 25:38Speaker 02

  It's that sprawling New Yorker shit.

• 25:41Lizzie Bassett?

  I think it's interesting that they keep harping on the novella having no plot. That's what they keep saying. I don't agree at all. In many ways, I actually think it has more of a driving plot than the film does. There's a lot more made of Holly's sort of accidental illegal courier activities with Sally Tomato. And then her eventual downfall. Plus, she does get on a plane to Brazil at the end and eventually makes her way, maybe, all the way to Africa.

• 26:04Chris Winterbauer?

  I wonder if what they mean, though, is that there's no central driving plot from a movie perspective, which is most movies focus on one binary, like pass fail question. And in this instance, they're going to frame it as will they or will they not get together, right? Which I agree with you. I'm not interested in. I'm just saying.

• 26:22Lizzie Bassett?

  It does have that.

• 26:23Chris Winterbauer?

  Okay.

• 26:24Lizzie Bassett?

  It's just not that relationship. It's focused on Holly.

• 26:27Chris Winterbauer?

  So if you had to define it, what is it with Holly?

• 26:29Lizzie Bassett?

  It's will Holly settle down or won't she? Or like, will Holly sort of get? I mean, yeah, I understand what you're saying.

• 26:35Chris Winterbauer?

  I'm not saying you're wrong. I trust you. I guarantee you it's better and more interesting and it probably, even as a direct adaptation, would have made a better movie. I'm just saying, having been in meetings. Things like these, you know, to discuss adapting things, et cetera. If you can't boil it down to that one sentence, it gets hard, I think, for studio executives, et cetera, to compute and say, we're going to give you a bunch of money to go make this thing.

• 26:55Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, but

• 26:56Chris Winterbauer?

  Also, he's gay.

• 26:57Lizzie Bassett?

  That's it. I think that's it because like having read the novel, you know, something like The Devil Wears Prada, which really was that sprawling New Yorker bullshit.

• 27:05Chris Winterbauer?

  We about to talk about number two.

• 27:06Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, we are. This was not really that. Like, I really do think that this has a lot more forward momentum than something like that does.

• 27:14Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 27:14Lizzie Bassett?

  I think it's just that he's gay and there's no risk of them having sex. So, incept George Axelrod. Now, in 1952, Axelrod had become a household name thanks to his Broadway play, The Seven Year Itch. It had become the longest running non-musical of the decade with over 1,100 performances. Axelrod had, by his own estimation, written over 400 scripts for radio and TV prior to The Seven Year Itch. So, while it was his big break, he was not inexperienced. And his big break got even bigger when director Billy Wilder called him up and said he wanted to turn it into a film. But they had a problem. The Seven Year Itch is about a married man who has an affair while his family is on vacation. Chris, any guesses what might have been a problem for them at this time in the mid 50s?

• 27:55Chris Winterbauer?

  The, I mean, Hays Code?

• 27:56Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, The Hays Code, also known as the MPAA Production Code. Now, we've talked about this a bunch in other episodes. It was established in the 1930s. It was a set of censorship guidelines, which were self-imposed, which I actually didn't know, and agreed upon by the major studios. Among them, adultery was a pretty big no-no. We will get to why it was self-imposed.

• 28:15Chris Winterbauer?

  Okay.

• 28:15Lizzie Bassett?

  I don't know if you knew this. I did not know this. It was actually established following a series of unsavory events that had happened in Hollywood, the most scandalous of which was the death of Virginia Rapp, possibly due to some sort of sexual encounter or assault by Fatty Arbuckle. We still don't really know what the hell happened there. There's a great, you must remember this, on this case, Arbuckle was eventually acquitted because there was not enough evidence to convict him, but it's very ambiguous as to what went down.

• 28:40Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, and there were a lot of potential protests of certain films by Catholic groups, especially in Pennsylvania. And I can't remember which theater. I can't remember if it was Lemley. I'm going to get this wrong, but it might have been Warner's, but one of the major studios had a huge hub Of distribution based out of Pennsylvania at the time.

• 28:57Lizzie Bassett?

  Huh.

• 28:57Chris Winterbauer?

  And they just thought, what, we're gonna get creamed.

• 29:00Lizzie Bassett?

  That's it.

• 29:01Chris Winterbauer?

  You know, if we don't do something about this.

• 29:03Lizzie Bassett?

  Also, the government.

• 29:04Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 29:04Lizzie Bassett?

  Hollywood was basically like, we gotta check ourselves before we wreck ourselves because they know the government's gonna impose a stricter code than they might be able to impose on themselves.

• 29:12Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, it's better for us to do it to ourselves than somebody else to come in and mess with our thing.

• 29:16Lizzie Bassett?

  That's exactly right. So Wilder and Axelrod had to figure out what to do because their main character could not consummate an affair in the movie. So they turned any actual transgressions or sort of like insinuated transgressions into fantasies. They are in the main character's imagination.

• 29:32Chris Winterbauer?

  American Beauty.

• 29:32Lizzie Bassett?

  Right.

• 29:33Chris Winterbauer?

  They American beautied it.

• 29:34Lizzie Bassett?

  They did American beauty it. So Axelrod was deeply unhappy with the finished product because of this. And he decided to move to Los Angeles so he could keep a closer eye on any future screenplays of his. He also developed a habit of submitting a deliberately racy early draft that was designed to direct attention towards a character or a plotline that he was actually totally fine with cutting. It was a little bit of, look over here, so that the studio execs wouldn't look too closely at the parts that he wanted to keep. I love this. We used to do this in a particularly difficult writers' room that I worked in where we had to submit episode ideas. And we would always put an unbelievably bad one in the mix on purpose so that the higher ups would have something to cut right away.

• 30:08Chris Winterbauer?

  It's risky, though.

• 30:09Lizzie Bassett?

  Made them feel smarter, Chris. Bless their hearts.

• 30:12Chris Winterbauer?

  But it's risky because every once in a while.

• 30:14Lizzie Bassett?

  Why? Because they choose it?

• 30:15Chris Winterbauer?

  They choose the bad one.

• 30:16Lizzie Bassett?

  That's true. That's true.

• 30:17Chris Winterbauer?

  I'm just saying, it's a double edged sword.

• 30:19Lizzie Bassett?

  Make it really bad. So when Axelrod heard about Breakfast at Tiffany's, he in some ways saw a chance to right the wrongs done in The Seven Year Itch. And he went to Paramount, pitched himself, and they said, no, thank you. Because he was considered a massive red flag with the production code, thanks to The Seven Year Itch. Plus, according to Axelrod, Marty Jureau apparently didn't think he was uptown enough. I don't know what that means.

• 30:41Chris Winterbauer?

  He's like a low class writer.

• 30:42Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, a dirty poor.

• 30:44Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, yeah, well, you said, you know, radio, television. He's not an A-list features writer. It doesn't sound like at this point.

• 30:50Lizzie Bassett?

  He's not.

• 30:51Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 30:51Lizzie Bassett?

  So in January of 1959, they hired Australian novelist, playwright, and television writer Sumner Locke Elliott. Elliott, who was not out at the time, was gay and was New York based. So maybe they thought he could bring some of the Truman Capote flair that they needed, to which I say again, why not, uh, hire Truman Capote? I mean, I know why they wanted to change his entire novel. And by April, Elliot turned in his draft and Richard Shepherd wrote the following memo to Paramount. "Suffice to say, we are all immensely disappointed in Elliot's efforts. Disregarding its length and its peculiar physical format, we are most disturbed by its episodic, disjointed, fluffy, and even ephemeral tone. Elliot, to our way of thinking, has seriously failed to capture the warmth, the zest, the humor, the beauty, and more important, the basic heart and honesty that is Holly Golightly.

• 31:35Lizzie Bassett?

  The young man he has written is petty and unattractive in character, borders on the effeminate, which we all detest. And as is the case with Holly and the whole piece, it is almost totally devoid of the humor and contemporary flavor that is absolutely vital for this picture. Most important, however, a dramatically sound storyline and point of view is either nonexistent or certainly not clear." So it sounds to me like this person actually adapted Jérôme Capote's novel.

• 31:58Chris Winterbauer?

  He adapted the book, yeah. Why is the man's voice so high? It's ridiculous.

• 32:03Lizzie Bassett?

  He goes on to explain that they are all 100% convinced that it should be a rom-com in which the boy gets the girl in the end and they needed to hire a new writer who would be more capable of jamming Capote's character study into a traditional three-act structure in which his very gay narrator is no longer very gay and is now a man's man, mad man who falls in love with Holly Golightly. You know, some light changes. So Jérôme and Shepherd drew up a new list of screenwriters and down at the very bottom was George Axelrod. They asked every writer to pitch their idea on how to solve their problem. And if the pitch was good, they said, well, skip a treatment, you can go straight to the screenplay. And lucky for them, Axelrod had a solve. He figured the whole problem wasn't that Holly was, you know, afraid of being alone. It's actually that she was afraid of commitment, which was pretty unusual for a female character at the time. Now, this much is present in the novella.

• 32:48Lizzie Bassett?

  But now that they're turning it into a rom-com, he had to figure out why Holly and this guy don't just sleep together and move on. She clearly has no problem hooking up with people, but that would be a code no-no. So his solve was the reason that these two don't just bang it out right away is that he's a gigolo too. Which I gotta be honest, I don't totally get. Like, is it just that? I don't know. What do you make of this update?

• 33:12Chris Winterbauer?

  That's one of the elements I like about the movie quite a bit, actually.

• 33:14Lizzie Bassett?

  I like it too. I just don't know that I like underst- like, what is it? Is it just that he sees himself in her and then doesn't want to engage with her in the same way that he engages with other women or?

• 33:25Chris Winterbauer?

  You're saying why doesn't he try to hook up with her right away?

• 33:27Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, that's what they're like, why don't these, you know, why don't these two just get together?

• 33:32Chris Winterbauer?

  No, it's just why doesn't she hook up with him?

• 33:34Lizzie Bassett?

  Hmm.

• 33:35Chris Winterbauer?

  The decision-making is unidirectional in this. Then let's be straight, like.

• 33:38Lizzie Bassett?

  Good point.

• 33:39Chris Winterbauer?

  The women make the choice. The men are just like. If Holly in the first scene had been like, can I get in bed and kiss him? They would have had sex 100%.

• 33:46Lizzie Bassett?

  Good point. It's like in Tina Fey says in 30 Rock, you can smell like cabbage and you can still find a man to have sex with you. It's completely true.

• 33:53Chris Winterbauer?

  What I liked about it is that it shows that they're both transactional people. They're striving, you know, for something else in slightly different ways. I like that it makes it so that it puts him in a nice position where he is not judgmental of her, nor should he be judgmental of her, which I really like.

• 34:08Lizzie Bassett?

  That's also true. Good point.

• 34:10Chris Winterbauer?

  And I like the power dynamic between him and Patricia Neal. I think that's really interesting.

• 34:14Lizzie Bassett?

  I wish there was more of it, which we'll get to.

• 34:16Chris Winterbauer?

  I agree. Or their friendship. I love all those non-traditional elements much more than what we eventually get.

• 34:21Lizzie Bassett?

  All right. Thank you for clarifying that. I agree with all that. Darrow and Shepherd also agreed. They loved this and they hired him right away. And Axelrod removed a few major plot points from the novel immediately. So the whole dynamic between Mag's Wildwood, who is barely in the movie, and Holly is totally excised. In the book, they have this very funny, competitive, bitchy thing going on. She's a really weird, funny character. Also, Holly has an unplanned pregnancy and a miscarriage. Those are totally removed, as is the entire beginning of the novel. So what happens at the beginning of the novel is that the narrator discovers from his neighbor, Mr. Yunioshi, who, yes, is a Japanese man and a photographer, but he's a human. He's a normal, important human being, that Holly, who had disappeared at the end of the novel on a plane to Brazil,

• 35:06Lizzie Bassett?

  may have made it to Africa. And they discover this because Yunioshi visited a village and they show him a sculpture of a head that looks exactly like Holly Golightly. And they describe a woman having come into the town. So it's this realization that she has made it, you know, all the way to Africa and may have perhaps found love there. And he added, a lot, in particular, the relationship with 2E. 2E, the older woman bankrolling our narrator, now Paul's life in the building. And remember Axelrod's strategy of really raunching it up in one area to distract from another? He does that here by making the sexual encounters between 2E and Paul more explicit in order to distract from the character of Holly. And for the most

• 35:48Lizzie Bassett?

  Part this worked. There was a lot of back and forth with the production code administration in terms of what could stay and what could go. They didn't completely ignore Holly, but Jero and Shepherd had a very clever way around this. In the book, the narrator, as we said, pretty clearly gay. So if they didn't at least imply that he was sleeping with women in the movie, people might assume he was gay and there was nothing more horrifying than that. And the production code was like, you're right. But they did draw one major line in the sand. Holly and Paul could not sleep together in the movie. And this concerned Axelrod because he was starting to feel like it was the seven year itch all over again. So casting for the lead actress became even more important. She really had to walk the line between being just suggestive enough, but not so suggestive that anyone would think that she's a freak in the sheets. Shirley MacLaine

• 36:31Lizzie Bassett?

  was considered, but she was booked elsewhere. She would have been good. So were Jane Fonda, who I would argue is maybe a little too hot, and they also thought too young.

• 36:39Chris Winterbauer?

  Yes, yeah. And Jane Fonda projects older to me than she is. Like, I don't want this to be crass, but she projects more sexually mature than I think she was at her age versus MacLaine and Hepburn feel very young to me.

• 36:54Lizzie Bassett?

  That's interesting because they're both older.

• 36:55Chris Winterbauer?

  I know, but they feel more bright eyed and naive is the wrong word, but I don't know.

• 37:01Lizzie Bassett?

  I would argue they feel less sexual, although Shirley MacLaine, I think, can walk that line a little more than Audrey Hepburn does.

• 37:07Chris Winterbauer?

  Sure.

• 37:08Lizzie Bassett?

  By the way, though, Jane Fonda was closer in age to Holly's age in the book. Holly's 19 in the book, and Audrey Hepburn's in her 30s in this movie.

• 37:14Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, that's what I thought. I knew she'd been acting since the early 50s, I thought.

• 37:18Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah. Also considered were Rosemary Clooney. And then they start looking at the biggest box office stars at the time, and it's Doris Day, Elizabeth Taylor, Debbie Reynolds, Sandra Dee, like, none of these work.

• 37:29Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, I was wondering about like Doris Day and Rock Hudson. They were doing all their, you know, movies. Then Elizabeth Taylor, who I think is too old.

• 37:37Lizzie Bassett?

  Elizabeth Taylor would rip your dick off.

• 37:40Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, well, you know, Elizabeth Taylor could have played the Patricia Neal part, I think. She could have played 2E.

• 37:44Lizzie Bassett?

  I don't think she was old enough. I think she's like, this is Cleopatra era.

• 37:48Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, but maybe in terms of vibe, she could have played 2E.

• 37:52Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, 2E does have a dick ripping off vibe.

• 37:54Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah. I love Patricia Neal in this movie, and I think she is gorgeous.

• 37:58Lizzie Bassett?

  She is gorgeous. I don't know if I love her hats. They didn't do her any solids with those hats, but she looks great.

• 38:03Chris Winterbauer?

  Doesn't bother me.

• 38:05Lizzie Bassett?

  So.

• 38:06Chris Winterbauer?

  Keep your hat on.

• 38:06Lizzie Bassett?

  Okay, calm down. Before Roald Dahl beats you up.

• 38:11Chris Winterbauer?

  She beat Roald Dahl up, let's be honest.

• 38:13Lizzie Bassett?

  I hope so.

• 38:17Chris Winterbauer?

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• 39:00Chris Winterbauer?

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• 40:02Lizzie Bassett?

  So, this led them in a pretty different direction. And they thought, why don't we cast totally against type more aggressively and look at Audrey Hepburn? Audrey Hepburn was born in Brussels, Belgium in 1929 to a British father and a Dutch baroness. And beginning at age five, she was obsessed with ballet. Now, her parents divorced one year later around age six, and she went to live with her mother. Her mother moves them to the Netherlands. Her father, kind of... Kind of exited the picture at this point. And of this Hepburn said, it certainly stayed with me. My father leaving us left me insecure for life, perhaps. While the Netherlands had seemed like a safe bet to Hepburn's mom, thanks to the Nazis in World War II, it turned out they very much were not. Now, it should be noted that her mother was an early and rather avid Nazi sympathizer.

• 40:46Lizzie Bassett?

  That did change after the Nazi occupation of the Netherlands, when she saw firsthand what they were capable of, including murdering her brother-in-law, Audrey's uncle. But her mother's early support of the Nazis was something Hepburn was very embarrassed about for her entire life. And Audrey was not a sympathizer. In fact, she would actually ferry messages to Brits and Americans who had been shot down over Holland, and she delivered the Dutch Resistance newspaper to fellow resistance fighters. She was very young and she was an active part of the Dutch Resistance. This was an extremely difficult time, coupled with the hunger winter, famine, or hunger winter of 1944 to 1945, which left Audrey severely malnourished. And it actually weakened her to the point where she could no longer keep up with her dream of being a professional ballerina.

• 41:30Lizzie Bassett?

  So after the war, she pivoted to some small acting roles in London's West End, and then eventually some small film roles, where her relatively unusual features got her noticed pretty quickly. She was cast in the title role of the original Broadway production of Gigi, though she would not star in the film. And then, of course, she broke out big in 1953 with what film opposite Gregory Peck?

• 41:49Chris Winterbauer?

  Roman Holiday.

• 41:50Lizzie Bassett?

  Roman Holiday, which I love, is very cute.

• 41:53Chris Winterbauer?

  It's a great movie. And then Sabrina?

• 41:55Lizzie Bassett?

  Mm-hmm. She actually won the Oscar for Roman Holiday.

• 41:59Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, I did not remember that. William Wyler, right? He directed that one?

• 42:02Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, William Wyler.

• 42:03Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, it's a great movie.

• 42:04Lizzie Bassett?

  And then one year later, in 1954, Paramount called up French designer Hubert de Givenchy, asking him to dress Miss Hepburn for her upcoming film, Sabrina. Now, they had a pretty adorable meet-cute. He actually thought they had meant Catherine Hepburn. So when little tiny Audrey Hepburn walked in, he was like, eh, what is this? But she managed to win him over, and they ended up becoming each other's kind of great loves over the course of their lives. To be clear, Givenchy was gay, which I think Audrey Hepburn clocked right away. They continued working together, and by the time Breakfast at Tiffany's rolled around, it was actually in Audrey's Contract that her costumes had to be designed by Givenchy and a little bit more on that later. She was also one of the highest paid actresses in the world, but she was actually looking to step away from Hollywood.

• 42:45Lizzie Bassett?

  She had married Mel Ferrer in 1954 and in June of 1959, while Axelrod was working on the screenplay, Audrey had miscarried. And sadly, it was not the first time. According to Audrey, children were quote indispensable for a woman's life and happiness. So this was really quite devastating for her. She was trying to focus on building a family and had actually turned down both West Side Story and Cleopatra. And had pulled out of a Hitchcock film, which would never end up getting made because he had added a rape scene last minute. And she was like, I'm not doing it.

• 43:13Chris Winterbauer?

  Do you know who in West Side Story would have been?

• 43:16Lizzie Bassett?

  Maria.

• 43:16Chris Winterbauer?

  Maria. Okay.

• 43:17Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 43:17Chris Winterbauer?

  That's what I was wondering. Does Audrey Hepburn sing? I don't remember her singing.

• 43:21Lizzie Bassett?

  She did. She sang a little bit in Funny Face and of course she sings in this movie, which we will talk about, but she's not like.

• 43:26Chris Winterbauer?

  I meant like a big Broadway singer.

• 43:29Lizzie Bassett?

  Not at all. In 1959, she became pregnant again. And later, Jérôme flew out to the south of France to meet with a very preggers Audrey and try to sell her on Breakfast at Tiffany's. But she said, quote, "You have a wonderful script, but I can't play a hooker." However, Jérôme kept at it and her agent promised her she would not be confused for the wild child up on the screen. And she eventually agreed because, quote, "I was nothing like her, but I felt I could act Holly. That was a revolutionary thought for me after so many movies. I no longer felt like an amateur. I knew the part would be a challenge, but I wanted it anyway." And the $750,000 salary probably didn't hurt. That is 8.5 million dollars today. But she did remain concerned about her image in connection with Holly. She would later tell the director, quote, "When you publicize this unusual role, please make it clear that I do not play a trollop. I play a kook."

• 44:14Lizzie Bassett?

  And fun fact, this is actually why so many of the press materials featured Holly with a cat. Was because a cat lady couldn't possibly be a trollop. But she went back to focusing on her family and she happily gave birth to her first child, Sean Ferrer, in July of 1960. And everyone was thrilled that she had signed on except for. What's the one person who probably wasn't super stoked about this?

• 44:35Chris Winterbauer?

  Truman Capote.

• 44:36Lizzie Bassett?

  Truman Capote, he said Paramount double-crossed me in every way and cast Audrey. He told Playboy magazine, "The book was really rather bitter and Holly Golightly was real, a tough character, not an Audrey Hepburn type at all. The film became a mockish Valentine to New York City and Holly, and as a result, was thin and pretty, whereas it should have been rich and ugly. It bore as much resemblance to my work as The Rockettes do to Yulianova." The Yulianova there refers to Galina Yulianova, who was considered one of the greatest ballerinas of all time. So he's simultaneously shitting on Breakfast at Tiffany's and The Rockettes. Nice, Truman. He didn't love it. Someone else who probably wasn't too thrilled about Audrey's casting was director John Frankenheimer, who had been attached to direct until Audrey or her agents.

• 45:16Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, really?

• 45:17Lizzie Bassett?

  Uh huh. They said she would not work with him.

• 45:20Chris Winterbauer?

  Interesting.

• 45:21Lizzie Bassett?

  So he got fired.

• 45:22Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah. We haven't covered, well, I guess we kind of covered a Frankenheimer film a little bit with Island of Doctor Moreau, but he was a combative presence on film sets.

• 45:32Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, and that could have been part of it. He also wasn't super well-known at this point. Others said it may have been that his existing work was a little too dark for her. Whatever it was, she said no. And then Hepburn's agent promptly handed Jarrow and Shepherd a list of more suitable directors. Every single one was booked, so they had to start calling the ones not on the list, and this included Blake Edwards.

• 45:50Chris Winterbauer?

  Right.

• 45:50Lizzie Bassett?

  At this point, he was best known for directing Operation Petticoat, which would not stand the test of time, but-

• 45:55Chris Winterbauer?

  But would be remade into a television show.

• 45:57Lizzie Bassett?

  Really?

• 45:57Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 45:58Lizzie Bassett?

  Okay. It did make a boatload of money for Universal, though, and it starred Cary Grant, an actor who was notoriously obsessive and required a strong hand from a director. They figured if he could handle Grant, he could handle Audrey. So Edwards got the gig at a cut rate, I'm sure. And he came quite late to the party, so he didn't have that much to do with the screenplay, nor did he get his way when it came to casting the male lead. Edwards' first choice to play Paul was Tony Curtis. I think Tony Curtis would have been so good in this role.

• 46:25Chris Winterbauer?

  So I think, actually, for me, the reason the first hour works well-

• 46:31Lizzie Bassett?

  Is that George Peppard is the blandest of bland toasts.

• 46:35Chris Winterbauer?

  I guess what I mean is that he doesn't read as sexual.

• 46:37Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, true.

• 46:37Chris Winterbauer?

  And so if you're not going to play him as gay, playing him as a sort of more sexless- Friend character I think is really interesting and I like then the dynamic between him and Patricia Neal, where she really commands the scene. She can dominate him, right? In a way that I don't know if she could, Toni Curtis. If you're sure she could, she's a wonderful actress. Anyway, all I'll say is I think that the love story doesn't work with George Pippard, and it may have worked better with Toni Curtis.

• 47:01Lizzie Bassett?

  I think it would have.

• 47:01Chris Winterbauer?

  But I think the non-love story actually works pretty well with George Pippard.

• 47:05Lizzie Bassett?

  Okay.

• 47:06Chris Winterbauer?

  Just my take.

• 47:07Lizzie Bassett?

  But it was Mel Ferrer, Audrey's husband, who shut this one down. So Edwards tried Steve McQueen, at least he's hot, if not funny.

• 47:15Chris Winterbauer?

  Too, too hot.

• 47:16Lizzie Bassett?

  Too hot.

• 47:17Chris Winterbauer?

  She's like, let me get in your bed just for a minute. And it's like, come on. It's like that Mike Nichols story, right? He's casting The Graduate. Robert Redford wants the role and he says, well, you know, Rob, it's like when you strike out with a girl. And Robert says, what do you mean?

• 47:28Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, exactly. But he was actually under contract elsewhere. He was not available. Instead, the producers brought George Pippard's name to the table. Now, he was a very serious actor, trained at the Actors Studio in New York. He'd spent two seasons at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival, a wonderful Shakespeare festival. And he was also the worst. Just ask his ex-wife. Elizabeth Ashley would later say, quote, "George was never one of those actors who believed his job is to take the money, hit the mark and say the lines. He felt that as an above-the-title star, he had the responsibility to use his muscle and power to try and make it better, and that has never stopped him. He was unrelenting about it, to the point where a lot of directors and executives came to feel he was a pain in the ass. I'm sure Blake Edwards had heard some whiffs of this, but he tried to keep an open mind and went to see Pippard in a recent film.

• 48:10Lizzie Bassett?

  And his reaction, quote, "After coming out of the film, I dropped to my knees on the sidewalk to the producers and begged them not to cast him." But he did not get his way and Pippard got the role. Unfortunately, he did get his way in the casting of Mr. Yunio Shi. He insisted on Mickey Rooney because the two had worked together, and you know, Rooney was funny.

• 48:27Chris Winterbauer?

  That's so weird. I assumed it was some sort of big-name stunt casting thing.

• 48:32Lizzie Bassett?

  No, actually Mickey Rooney was kind of down and out at this time.

• 48:35Chris Winterbauer?

  I know.

• 48:36Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 48:36Chris Winterbauer?

  Similarly with Pippard, I was just looking at his filmography. He was only in a few, I mean, he was nobody compared to Patricia Neal and compared to Audrey Hepburn.

• 48:45Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, that could be part of it. They were expensive. So if they don't have a ton of money left in the budget, but the Mickey Rooney thing, I kind of think this was Blake Edwards. Doing him a solid because Rooney had had fallen on hard times. I think he'd struggled with some addictions and I think like less than a year later would file for bankruptcy. But I'm not sure anyone knew what these two had in mind until they got to set, but a little more on that later. Patricia Neal, as we mentioned, then wife of Roald Dahl, was cast as Tuie after a three-year break in acting. I agree with you. I think she's great in this. I wish she was in it more. And they had to hold auditions for the cat, Chris, and since cats do whatever the hell they want, they had to have multiple identical cats, each with their own specialties. According to cat trainer Frank Inn, quote, "I have a sitting cat, a going cat, a meowing cat, a throwing cat,

• 49:28Lizzie Bassett?

  and so on, each one a specialist and all the same color, you'll notice." A throwing cat? I don't know about that one. Now, as for old Truman, he was pretty much out of the picture for the remainder of production, and he was not happy about it, especially since George Axelrod got paid more for his adaptation than Truman had for selling the rights. According to Axelrod, quote, "Truman didn't have much to do with the film. Again, it's such a loose adaptation. I tried to keep the gene pool of the novella. I couldn't use the structure at all because it's the same story as I am a camera. Just a homosexual or asexual man observing a sexy girl. You can't make a love story out of that, and they wanted a love story." It's so interesting to me that they keep saying these are the same story. They are not the same story. It is just a gay man in a friendship with a manic pixie dream girl. I think the dynamics are different.

• 50:13Lizzie Bassett?

  The motivations of the character in Breakfast at Tiffany's are different. He's a lot more active, I think, than in Goodbye to Berlin. You can have more than one gay man who is friends with a woman. Just a thought. Now, remember Hepburn's contractual obligation to Givenchy? This had already been causing problems for years for legendary costume designer Edith Head, who was under contract at Paramount. She was pissed that Givenchy would swoop in and design just for Audrey, which he did on Sabrina and Funny Face. Now, Head tried to fight it on Breakfast at Tiffany's, making the very good point that Hollywood have neither the money nor the access to French high fashion, so how would she get these clothes? But it didn't matter. And Head got pushed into the role of costume supervisor, providing costumes for Pippard and all the minor players,

• 50:54Lizzie Bassett?

  while Givenchy took care of Audrey and the gowns, which I think means he was dressing some of the other women as well. I think this is pretty fucked up. Ed was a legend. She's one of the greatest costume designers like ever to live. And I understand Audrey Hepburn's connection to Givenchy and that it was wonderful. And obviously the dresses in this are beautiful. That's one of the most iconic black dresses of all time. But it does suck that like this is Edith's head's job. It's her whole job and she doesn't get to do it. They also needed a song for Holly Go Lightly to sing, but everyone, including Audrey Hepburn, was pretty concerned because she did not have the most amazing voice. In particular, her range was very limited. According to the Financial Times, Australian critic Clive James once described Hepburn as having,

• 51:37Lizzie Bassett?

  quote, "the vocal range of a mouse trapped under a cushion." It's rude. But Henry Mancini, who scored the film, had written Moon River alongside lyricist Johnny Mercer, specifically for Hepburn's limited range. It was actually Blake Edwards who pushed this over the edge and insisted that it had to be Audrey singing, not Marnie Nixon, infamous vocal artist who dubbed both Natalie Wood in West Side Story and later on Audrey in My Fair Lady. His argument was that she shouldn't really sound that good. It's kind of the Sally Bowles argument. She's just a regular manic pixie dream girl with her guitar and they usually don't sound like Marnie Nixon. And finally, everyone agreed. So cameras rolled in New York City first and things were immediately not off to a great start. Hepburn was away from her 10 week old baby and not loving that.

• 52:20Lizzie Bassett?

  She was also not loving the Danish she was supposed to be eating as she walked up to the window of Tiffany's because it turns out she hated Danishes. She asked if it could be an ice cream cone and Edwards said absolutely not. To which I say, why not? Give her the damn ice cream cone. She's away from her baby and she hates Danishes.

• 52:36Chris Winterbauer?

  Also Patricia Neal had just had a baby too.

• 52:38Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh.

• 52:39Chris Winterbauer?

  Patricia Neal had a baby in August of 1960.

• 52:41Lizzie Bassett?

  So around the same time.

• 52:42Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 52:42Lizzie Bassett?

  That's interesting.

• 52:43Chris Winterbauer?

  Her third child.

• 52:44Lizzie Bassett?

  Their age difference isn't that big, is it?

• 52:46Chris Winterbauer?

  Patricia Neal was born in 1926.

• 52:49Lizzie Bassett?

  That's three years. Yeah. Okay.

• 52:50Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 52:51Lizzie Bassett?

  Interesting.

• 52:51Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah. Her voice, she has that smoky low register and I think that makes her seem so much older.

• 52:56Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, yeah, and they're dressing her as an older woman too.

• 52:58Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 52:59Lizzie Bassett?

  But Hepburn was not having a great time. She didn't really like the process of acting all that much. She would later say, quote, "It gets harder and harder. I really die a million deaths every time. My stomach turns over, my hands get clammy. I do suffer. I really do." Wasn't cut out to do this kind of thing. I really wasn't. The exterior sequence was a pain in the ass to film anyway, because they had to clear out by 7:30 a.m. when Nikita Khrushchev's motorcade was going to come through. And the scene shot inside of Tiffany's was an absolute nightmare. This was the first time a film crew had been allowed inside of Tiffany's, and it happened because Hepburn agreed to wear the gigantic yellow diamond for the promo photos. It had taken Juro six months to get Tiffany's to agree to this, but Chris, Tiffany's has a lot of windows. Any thoughts on what might have been a problem?

• 53:44Chris Winterbauer?

  Passersby looking through, changing light, reflections.

• 53:47Lizzie Bassett?

  The light, all of the above. It's a nightmare.

• 53:50Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 53:51Lizzie Bassett?

  The DP, Franz Planer, set up 32 yellow gelled spotlights all around the store and had to put filters on the windows, because apparently, actually, Technicolor made natural daylight look blue. So, since they were dealing with natural light, as you pointed out, it kept shifting throughout the day, making the constant setup just a disaster. But finally, once Planer had everything set up and ready to roll, Audrey delivered her first line in the scene, "Isn't it wonderful?", and she was cut off by a blood-curdling scream. Because, Chris, Planer was laid out on the floor. He had been electrocuted.

• 54:23Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, my god.

• 54:25Lizzie Bassett?

  An untethered cable had given him a 220-volt shock.

• 54:29Chris Winterbauer?

  That's...

• 54:30Lizzie Bassett?

  Bad.

• 54:31Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah. Yep. If you have a 220 hookup in your house for like, you know, an electric stove, or your EV, or something like that.

• 54:39Lizzie Bassett?

  I do.

• 54:39Chris Winterbauer?

  A lot more charge than your typical outlet.

• 54:43Lizzie Bassett?

  Right. I will not stick my finger in it.

• 54:44Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 54:45Lizzie Bassett?

  Fortunately, he was okay, but the whole ordeal meant further delays for everyone.

• 54:49Chris Winterbauer?

  Actually, he had superpowers after that.

• 54:51Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah. In October of 1960, after only one week in New York City, the shoot moved to Paramount Studios in L.A. And despite someone having just been literally electrocuted, the biggest problem on set was not live wires, but George Pappard.

• 55:05Chris Winterbauer?

  Hmm.

• 55:06Lizzie Bassett?

  He constantly pushed for script changes that would make his character bigger. According to Patricia Neal, quote, "He didn't want my character to make his character look bad. My character was dominant, you know? And before George got to the script, I had a really excellent part, but he didn't want that. So he fought to have my dialogue cut, cut..." Much of it, he actually managed to get cut because Blake had no choice but to give in. But luckily, he didn't get away with all of it.

• 55:28Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, this is crazy because, you know, Patricia Neal will win her Best Actress Oscar, I guess, not until 1963, but she'll go on to win.

• 55:36Lizzie Bassett?

  That's two years later. Yeah.

• 55:37Chris Winterbauer?

  My point is, she's one of the best actresses working.

• 55:40Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 55:40Chris Winterbauer?

  George Pappard is.

• 55:42Lizzie Bassett?

  Who?

• 55:43Chris Winterbauer?

  Regional theater, George Pappard.

• 55:45Lizzie Bassett?

  Sit down.

• 55:46Chris Winterbauer?

  No offense to the Ashland-based Oregon Shakespeare Festival, which is wonderful. But yeah, come on, man, this sucks.

• 55:51Lizzie Bassett?

  It does suck.

• 55:52Chris Winterbauer?

  She's great. And also, the scenes are better when she is in the position of power.

• 55:55Lizzie Bassett?

  Correct.

• 55:56Chris Winterbauer?

  It just makes for a more interesting dynamic.

• 55:58Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, he's more interesting.

• 55:59Chris Winterbauer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:59Lizzie Bassett?

  According to Patricia Snell, Blake Edwards' then-wife, quote, "On one occasion, Blake and George almost had a fistfight. We were trying to block a scene and George wanted to change everything that Blake had planned, and George got so terrible that Blake almost hit him. I got them to stop, but I think George got his way. I hated him from that moment on." Snell basically said George just had, like, zero social skills and also didn't put in the work and rolled doll hated him to boot and made that known. And Edwards had another problem, another husband, Audrey's husband, Mel Ferrer. Ferrer showed up and disrupted filming a lot. And Edwards started to suspect, with good reason, that Ferrer may have been directing Audrey at home, contradicting what Edwards was asking for. He also had a habit

• 56:40Lizzie Bassett?

  of openly chastising Audrey in front of the cast and crew. Edwards remembered dinner one night at a Japanese restaurant where Audrey had the audacity to put her elbows on the table, at which point Ferrer jabbed his fork underneath her elbows and said, "Ladies do not put their elbows on the table loud enough for everyone to hear." Despite Audrey maybe not having such a fun time on this shoot, pretty much everyone said she was a genuinely delightful person. Richard Shepherd said, "Everything you have read, heard, or wished to be true about Audrey Hepburn doesn't come close to how wonderful she was. There's not a human being on earth that was kinder, more gentle, more caring, more giving, brighter, and more modest than Audrey. She was just an extraordinary, extraordinary person. Everyone should know that."

• 57:27Lizzie Bassett?

  Now Blake Edwards may not have had a ton of control over the script, or George Peppard, but he did get his way in two parts of the film. Let's talk about the good one first. The party sequence.

• 57:37Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, yeah.

• 57:38Lizzie Bassett?

  Really fun.

• 57:38Chris Winterbauer?

  You can see what he'll do, you know, like, I always think of him with the Pink Panther movies.

• 57:42Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 57:42Chris Winterbauer?

  Right? And you can see the comic energy that he wants to bring. And that's why he, I think that's the misguided idea behind the Uniochi character. He's trying to bring some more slapstick, screwball energy to the movie.

• 57:53Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 57:53Chris Winterbauer?

  It works in the party sequence very well. That's a really fun choreographed sequence.

• 57:57Lizzie Bassett?

  It's one of my favorite parts of the movie. It might be my favorite part of the whole movie. It took a week to shoot. It was almost entirely improvised. He insisted on hiring professional actors, not just extras.

• 58:06Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, they're all really good.

• 58:07Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah. He wanted to be able to just really throw things at them and have them react in real time. The actress who's laughing and crying in the mirror is-

• 58:14Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, she's great.

• 58:15Lizzie Bassett?

  She's great. That's Faye McKenzie. She's in, like, a lot of westerns with Jean Autry. He actually set fire to a hat behind her to try and make her laugh. And he didn't realize that she's so nearsighted she couldn't see it. So there was, like, no reaction.

• 58:30Chris Winterbauer?

  I'm glowing. Yeah.

• 58:33Lizzie Bassett?

  Also, when that woman screams, when Peppard puts his drink, it's, I think it's actually because he pinched her. Good times.

• 58:38Chris Winterbauer?

  Thanks, George.

• 58:39Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 58:40Chris Winterbauer?

  And then George, wah, wah.

• 58:43Lizzie Bassett?

  Over the course of a week, Edwards went through 140 gallons of tea, replacing alcohol, and 60 cartons of cigarettes.

• 58:50Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, yeah. And they didn't replace the cigarettes.

• 58:52Lizzie Bassett?

  You don't need to replace the cigarettes.

• 58:53Chris Winterbauer?

  Real ones, yeah.

• 58:54Lizzie Bassett?

  On the last day, he did replace the tea with actual alcohol, though. They had a pretty good time.

• 58:58Chris Winterbauer?

  That's fun.

• 58:59Lizzie Bassett?

  The end result is really fun, and it does lift the movie up, I would say. Unlike the other thing Blake Edwards added to this movie, which is, of course, Mickey Rooney's performance as Mr. Uniochi. Now, I don't want to entirely blame Edwards, since the studio also really took this casting and ran with it. They actually announced the role, and this is before filming had even started, by saying that the character of Mr. Uniochi would be played by Japanese comedian, "Ohayo Arigato", which is, of course, "good morning and thank you" in Japanese. Press releases detailed his supposed background that he demanded a bigger part and a sword dance sequence, that he required Axelrod to add to the script to make him happy. Oh, he also had leased his geisha home, Chris, in order to go to Hollywood.

• 59:41Lizzie Bassett?

  And they announced that he'd been spotted at the World Series in the bleachers gambling his salary away. Then they plant a story that a photographer had recognized Mickey Rooney on the set, under all the prosthetics, and they make an even bigger fuss out of the whole thing, saying that Rooney would be receiving coaching from Minoli Muketa, wife of the director of the Japanese Chamber of Commerce in LA, who would be serving as a technical advisor on the film. I cannot figure out if there was any truth to this. She's real, and her husband, Katsuma Muketa, were definitely real fixtures in LA, but I don't see her listed anywhere in the film's credits. I don't know. It's very weird. It's gross.

• 1:00:16Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, it seems like an attempt to backpedal a little bit after maybe your really weird

• 1:00:21Lizzie Bassett?

  I think so.

• 1:00:21Chris Winterbauer?

  promotional strategy maybe backfired or didn't seem to work.

• 1:00:24Lizzie Bassett?

  I agree. Yeah.

• 1:00:25Chris Winterbauer?

  Honestly, what it seems to me is like they said, who knows somebody that's Japanese?

• 1:00:29Lizzie Bassett?

  Right. Oh, totally.

• 1:00:30Chris Winterbauer?

  Like, in a meeting, and they said, the Chamber of Commerce guy, like, okay, let's get his wife. You know what I mean? You make, I don't know.

• 1:00:36Lizzie Bassett?

  It's icky.

• 1:00:36Chris Winterbauer?

  To me, this feels like a really bad marketing department series of decisions.

• 1:00:40Lizzie Bassett?

  I also wonder if what happened is that somebody did actually figure out it was Mickey Rooney, and then they like get ahead of it, and they plant.

• 1:00:47Chris Winterbauer?

  That's what I'm saying. It's like a cascades in a bad way.

• 1:00:50Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:50Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:51Lizzie Bassett?

  Internally, people were also not super stoked about this performance, especially George Axelrod, who really hated it and had from the beginning.

• 1:00:58Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, it also breaks the reality of the movie.

• 1:01:00Lizzie Bassett?

  It's bizarre.

• 1:01:00Chris Winterbauer?

  It's really weird. It's like you jump into these, like, bad minstrel show slapstick components when the movie actually tries to take some more somber turns when you learn of Lou Lamä's history and whatnot. And those don't work in conjunction with Mr. Yunioshi at all.

• 1:01:17Lizzie Bassett?

  No, it's really weird.

• 1:01:18Chris Winterbauer?

  It feels so tonally jarring.

• 1:01:19Lizzie Bassett?

  It's very, very strange. And again, like, there is no indication in the novel that this either tone should be in the movie, or that this character would be like this. It's just gross. And Axelrod pointed out, quote, "Each time Yunioshi appeared, I said, 'Jesus, Blake, can't you see that it fucks the movie up?' He said, 'We need comedy in this, and Mickey's characters- Funny, but Axelrod did not give up. He actually had an enormous fight with Blake Edwards, where he was advocating that they remove all of the character's bits, except for the one or two necessary ones where Uniochi interacts with Holly Go Lightly. By the way, that's a totally different character in the book. It's a woman who has the issues with the noise of Holly. So there's no reason to have had this be Uniochi. Axelrod actually went so far as to arrange for Audrey Hepburn to come back to set after they were done,

• 1:02:02Lizzie Bassett?

  to reshoot those couple of scenes with a totally different actor, so that they could ax Rooney from the film. And Hepburn agreed to do this for $0. So I'm guessing she also was not stoked about the Mickey Rooney stuff.

• 1:02:14Chris Winterbauer?

  You know, I wonder if the original sin here, in some ways, is the Pappard hiring, because, you know, he's not funny, right? I mean, and I like him in portions of this movie quite a bit, but he's not funny.

• 1:02:26Lizzie Bassett?

  Nope, that's why I'm saying Tony Curtis.

• 1:02:28Chris Winterbauer?

  So Hepburn has to generate all the comedy in those interactions. And then does Blake Edwards feel like he needs to, you know what I mean? Find some other sources of levity throughout the movie, when she then becomes a heavier character again? So, you know, let's just blame Pappard for all of it.

• 1:02:43Lizzie Bassett?

  Sure. I think we can blame Blake Edwards and Mickey Rooney.

• 1:02:47Chris Winterbauer?

  We'll blame all of them, yeah.

• 1:02:48Lizzie Bassett?

  Also, it should be noted Blake Edwards did continue doing, you know, there's also, I think there's Peter Sellers dressing as like an Indian character at some points. And yeah, so this is not unfamiliar territory to him, although it never was as offensive as this, I don't think. But according to Axelrod, quote, "Blake violently disagreed, so Mickey Rooney's still in the picture, boy to the great detriment of the picture." Blake said, "I love it. It gives a big lift to the picture. It's the one lapse in taste in the picture." Breakfast at Tiffany's held a preview at Stanford University with Audrey and her lovely husband, Mel Ferrer, in attendance. And according to actress Faye McKenzie, when they all walked out of the screening, Ferrer turned to Hepburn and said loud enough for everyone to hear, "I liked your hat." Don't worry, they got divorced in 1968 after both had affairs. He seems really fun.

• 1:03:31Lizzie Bassett?

  By the way, at one of the previews, the head of production at Paramount decided that he hated Moon River, and said, "That fucking song has to go." And then depending on who you ask, either Audrey Hepburn or Richard Shepherd screamed back, "Over my dead body." I'm inclined to think it was Richard Shepherd, but I love the idea of Audrey Hepburn. And being held back by Mel Ferrer screaming. The film premiered on October 5th, 1961, and pretty much everyone loved it, except for, he's back, Truman Capote. Capote explained to Lawrence Grobel in Conversations with Capote, quote, "It was the most miscast film I've ever seen. It made me want to throw up. And although I'm very fond of Audrey Hepburn, she's an extremely good friend of mine, I was shocked and terribly annoyed when she was cast in that part. It was high treachery on the part of the producers.

• 1:04:14Lizzie Bassett?

  They didn't do a single thing they promised. I had lots of offers for that book from practically everybody, and I sold it to this group at Paramount because they promised things. They made a list of everything, and they didn't keep a single one. The day I signed the contract, they turned around and did exactly the reverse. They got a lousy director like Blake Edwards, who I could spit on. Do it, Truman." George Axelrod was nominated for Best Adapted Screenplay, but he lost to Judgment at Nuremberg. But Best Original Score and Song did go to Henry Mancini. And critics were generally favorable on the movie, though several pointed out, for better and for worse, how different it was from the source material. And again, yes, people did find Mickey Rooney's performance pretty abhorrent all the way back in 1961. Several critics called it out as being potentially offensive, and so did Truman

• 1:04:57Lizzie Bassett?

  Capote, saying, quote, "It made me want to throw up. Like Mickey Rooney playing this Japanese photographer. Well, indeed, I had a Japanese photographer in the book, but he certainly wasn't Mickey Rooney." Didn't bother Mickey Rooney, though. According to him, who would later say in 2008, that at the time, quote, "Never in all the more than 40 years after we made it, not one complaint. Every place I've gone in the world, people say, 'You were so funny.' Asians and Chinese come up to me and say, 'Mickey, you were out of this world.'" Oh, buddy. In 1993, Bruce Lee's biopic showed Lee and his wife leaving the theater disturbed by Rooney's performance, and this is kind of the first mainstream critique of the character on this level. And then people really start to revisit the film through a different lens, and the character became harder and harder to stomach.

• 1:05:38Lizzie Bassett?

  By 2006, Shepherd was apologizing in the 45th Anniversary DVD commentary, saying, quote, "If we could just change Mickey Rooney, I'd be thrilled with the movie." Director Blake Edwards also said, "Looking back, I wish I had never done it. I would give anything to be able to recast it, but it's there, and onward and upward." Indeed, Edwards would move onward and upward. As we said, he became best known for directing and writing The Pink Panther. Series starring Peter Sellers as Inspector Clouseau, which I do enjoy.

• 1:06:03Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, great series.

• 1:06:04Lizzie Bassett?

  Although there are some unsavory things in that as well, but as you pointed out, you can really see the kind of bonkers, like, physical comedy in the party scene that would evolve into The Pink Panther. In 2008, the film was pulled from a free screening in Sacramento and replaced with the obvious choice, Ratatouille. Mickey Rooney responded, I don't know why they replaced it with Ratatouille, but they did. Mickey Rooney responded, quote, "It breaks my heart. Blake Edwards, who directed the picture, wanted me to do it because he was a comedy director. They hired me to do this overboard and we had fun doing it."

• 1:06:32Chris Winterbauer?

  I don't think you should pull the movie. I think,

• 1:06:34Lizzie Bassett?

  I agree.

• 1:06:34Chris Winterbauer?

  I don't know the circumstances, but I think it's just talk about all of it. There are so many wonderful things about this movie, like so many movies, and there are so many things I didn't know about from the book that you mentioned that I wish they had done differently, but I understand why they did them the way they did. And there are some things where I just think, why'd you put the rake down? You're gonna step on it right in front of you, like the Mickey Rooney thing. That's why I like this podcast. It's like, we can, you know, still watch these movies and talk about these movies, talk about all of it.

• 1:06:59Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, and that's what happened in 2011. I think there was like a sci-fi screening of it that people tried to pull, and instead of doing that, they actually brought in a panelist, produced by the Media Action Network for Asian-Americans, to talk about it and then still screen the movie. I agree, like, still show it and talk about it. Don't just erase it. And this has continued. It's been a real struggle for fans of the film as to whether it's appropriate to show it publicly or not, and pretty much everyone involved has publicly apologized for it. But as Melissa Proksa Chart, a scholar of Asian-American film and assistant professor at the University of Michigan, wrote in her really fascinating paper, quote, "This genuflection at the altar of anti-racism has become the de facto response for recuperating the film, its lauded cast and crew, and its eager viewers. This discourse of aberration suggests that the problem of racism could be solved if the film, or merely Rooney's uniyoshi, simply disappeared.

• 1:07:44Lizzie Bassett?

  But neither the outright banning of the film nor the offhand acknowledgement of its racism has truly mitigated the discomfort of its existence." She goes on to say, "The character of Mr. Uniyoshi is not an exceptional aberration. Rather, he fits quite nicely into a film preoccupied with masquerade, phoniness, and fakery."

• 1:08:01Chris Winterbauer?

  Hmm.

• 1:08:02Lizzie Bassett?

  I agree. But even though I really did not care for this movie, I would like to end on something positive. Sam Wasson points out in his biography that prior to this film, sex, or at least the implication of it, was reserved for the bad girls, and they always ended up getting punished for it. He said, quote, "But in Breakfast at Tiffany's, all of a sudden, because it was Audrey who was doing it, living alone, going out, looking fabulous, and getting a little drunk, didn't look so bad anymore. Being single actually seemed shame-free. It seemed fun." So I guess Carrie Bradshaw can thank Holly Go Lightly, as can everyone else, but really, we should all thank Truman Capote, who had the guts to write a character who was far more true to life than what we got on screen. His Holly was single, fabulous, funny, daring, flighting, insecure, sexy, mean, and he didn't judge her for any of it. And that wraps up

• 1:08:47Lizzie Bassett?

  Breakfast at Tiffany's.

• 1:08:48Chris Winterbauer?

  Great job, Lizzie. Thanks for walking us through it. It's been a long time coming on this show. Well, I guess I'll ask you, what went right?

• 1:08:55Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, Chris, you go first.

• 1:08:56Chris Winterbauer?

  So I would like to give mine, because I've kind of been obsessed with her since we covered Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. I'd like to give mine to Patricia Neal.

• 1:09:04Lizzie Bassett?

  Nice.

• 1:09:04Chris Winterbauer?

  Who I think is an extremely interesting person. I also want to flag her son, when he was four months old, in December of 1960, so they may have still been shooting the movie, I don't know if they had wrapped or not, was hit by a car.

• 1:09:17Lizzie Bassett?

  Ah, what?

• 1:09:18Chris Winterbauer?

  And, yeah, and had intense brain damage. Roald Dahl ended up inventing a form of tube to relieve brain pressure for kids suffering

• 1:09:29Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:09:30Chris Winterbauer?

  From forms of encephalitis, I think. And Patricia Neal was also dealing with this. Then, in 1962, her seven-year-old daughter, Olivia, died.

• 1:09:40Lizzie Bassett?

  No.

• 1:09:41Chris Winterbauer?

  From complications from measles, encephalitis, again. And then Patricia Neal had a cerebral aneurysm while she was pregnant in 1965. She delivered the baby. I believe she lost the ability to speak. Roald Dahl, who in many ways was not a good partner, but in this way was, they basically said she will never function the way she did before, and he said, "Fuck that." And he instituted a draconian rehabilitation schedule, and she got back to neuro- Really full function.

• 1:10:12Lizzie Bassett?

  Whoa.

• 1:10:13Chris Winterbauer?

  And ended up basically returning to acting. They did eventually divorce. I think he was also having affairs. Her life is incredible. You guys should look her up. She is.

• 1:10:21Lizzie Bassett?

  Wow.

• 1:10:21Chris Winterbauer?

  An incredible actress. She also had such a complicated love history before Roald Dahl.

• 1:10:26Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, Gary Cooper, right?

• 1:10:27Chris Winterbauer?

  Yes. And then she briefly may have entertained exploring something with Kirk Douglas after she and Gary Cooper had kind of split. And then Gary Cooper hit her after that. And then she got pregnant with Gary Cooper's child and had an abortion. A very, very, very complicated legacy, complicated person, incredible actress. And I think she's so good in this movie. And she makes all of her scenes sing. And now that I know how much of a dullard and a bore, as Audrey would say, George Pippard was, I really appreciate how dynamic Patricia Neal is in those scenes. And I'm bummed that we lost the even more interesting version of her character.

• 1:11:01Lizzie Bassett?

  I agree.

• 1:11:02Chris Winterbauer?

  She's such a unique talent. So I'll give mine to Patricia Neal.

• 1:11:05Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, we need a movie about Patricia Neal.

• 1:11:06Chris Winterbauer?

  I think they made a TV movie about her.

• 1:11:08Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, we need a movie.

• 1:11:09Chris Winterbauer?

  Years and years ago. Yeah, we need like a real good one.

• 1:11:11Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, somebody get on it. All right. Well, you know, I will give mine to Audrey Hepburn. Because I find the way that the character is written to be so unappealing in this movie. And with anyone else in this part, I think it would have been unwatchable. But she really does manage to walk the line of being genuinely cute and sweet and funny. And God, she looks great. And I was so happy to find out that she was a genuinely good person that it seemed everyone really loved. And she had a hard time and she was dealing with a really, you know, garbage, boring husband and a garbage, boring co-star. And she still managed to really shine at the middle of this. So was she the Holly Go Lightly that Truman Capote wrote?

• 1:11:54Lizzie Bassett?

  No, but there's a reason everyone really loves this movie and I think it's her. So I will give it to Audrey. All right, Chris, if people would like to support this podcast, how can they go about doing that?

• 1:12:04Chris Winterbauer?

  Few easy ways to do it. Tell a family member or friend, hey, check out what went wrong. You can also leave us a rating and review on whatever podcatcher you're listening on. Those help us with visibility. If you are interested in going a step further and you'd like more from us, you can sign up for one of our subscription feeds for $5. ...a month on Spotify or Apple, you get one, at least one, bonus episode a month. These are typically more reviews of newer released movies. We just did, at the top of this month, Devil Wears Product 2. We got a couple more coming this way. We got a lot coming this summer. We got Anne Hathaway's summer that we're just in the midst of, knee-deep in Anne Hathaway's films, as it were. If you are interested in even more, you can head to our Patreon, www.patreon.com/whatwentwrongpodcast. For $5, you get the bonus episodes.

• 1:12:48Chris Winterbauer?

  You also get an ad-free RSS feed and just a bunch of bonus content from us, articles, homework on what you can read and watch ahead of upcoming episodes, et cetera. And for $50, you can get, I mean, take your pick, a Holly Go Lightly, or I would prefer a Truman Capote shout-out.

• 1:13:03Lizzie Bassett?

  I daren't do a Truman Capote shout-out.

• 1:13:05Chris Winterbauer?

  Just like one of these.

• 1:13:08Lizzie Bassett?

  Nate Ashley, you know those days when you get the mean reds? Beatrix Earhart, the cast and crew of Winner Trip to Brown Town? Mark Bertha, Mariposa's humans? Frankenstein? Angeline Renee Cook? You mustn't give your heart to a wild thing. Evan Downey, Jose Emiliano Salto de Georgio, Amy Elgishlager McCoy, Jory Hill Piper, Felicia G., Scott O'Shea, Karina Kanaba? Gracious, do you think she's handsomely paid? James McAvoy, Cameron Smith, Suzanne Johnson, Ben Schindelman, the Provost's family, the O's sound like O's?

• 1:13:53Lizzie Bassett?

  Galen and Miguel, the broken glass kids? If I had her money, I'd be richer than she is. David Friscolanti, Film It Yourself, Chris Zucker, Kate Elrington, M. Sodia? C. Grace B., Blaze Ambrose, Royal Joe, Nate the Knife, Lena LJ., Half-Grey Hound, Brittany Morris, Darren and Dale Conkling, Matthew Jacobson, Grace Potter, JJ Rapidoe, Lazy Freddy, Sadie, just Sadie, Brian Donahue?

• 1:14:31Lizzie Bassett?

  Ryan, it's useful being top banana in the shock department. Adrian Pengkorea, Chris Leal, Kathleen Olson, Brooke, Steve Winterbauer, Don Scheible, Rosemary Southward, Tom Kristin, Jason Frankel, Soaman Chinani, Michael McGrath, and Lydia Howes. Thank you all so very much.

• 1:14:56Chris Winterbauer?

  Thank you so much, guys. Thank you, Lizzie, for those shout outs. Lizzie, what do we have coming next week?

• 1:15:03Lizzie Bassett?

  We have-

• 1:15:04Chris Winterbauer?

  Mixing it up.

• 1:15:05Lizzie Bassett?

  We are mixing it up in a way I'm very excited about. I can't wait for you to cover this movie. I can't wait to watch this movie. It's time for My Big Fat Greek Wedding.

• 1:15:14Chris Winterbauer?

  Finally.

• 1:15:15Lizzie Bassett?

  Finally. Everyone's been waiting for it. I have.

• 1:15:18Chris Winterbauer?

  A movie, yeah, I saw, I think I saw it at least twice in theaters with my family. This was a big movie for our family. It came out when we were all on a December vacation in Dallas. It was on its incredible indie film run.

• 1:15:31Lizzie Bassett?

  Nothing else to do.

• 1:15:32Chris Winterbauer?

  And there's nothing else to do but also-

• 1:15:34Lizzie Bassett?

  Other than go see where JFK got shot and go see My Big Fat Greek Wedding.

• 1:15:37Chris Winterbauer?

  Which we did. I don't know if it was that year, but those are the two things we've done. Like, here's The Grassy Knoll and here's My Big Fat Greek Wedding. But we, you know, my mom's family, my mom's from Puerto Rico. And so my dad, you know, and my uncles have had the My Big Fat Latin, My Big Fat Puerto Rican Wedding. And so it was very fun to watch this movie with my family. And I'm really excited to talk about it. It's a special one.

• 1:15:58Lizzie Bassett?

  Nice. Can't wait. We'll see you then.

• 1:16:00Chris Winterbauer?

  Thank you, guys, so much. We'll see you then.

• 1:16:01Lizzie Bassett?

  Bye.

• 1:16:06Speaker 06

  What Went Wrong is a Sad Boom podcast, presented by Lizzie Bassett and Chris Winterbauer. Post-production and music by David Bowman. This episode was researched by Laura Woods and edited by Karen Crebsaw.