Bonus Episode - From Charlie Sheen to Caligula, Hedonism Throughout History and More

Who is the most hedonistic entertainer from throughout history? Hint: his name might rhyme with “D. Piddy." Caligula is blushing, and your voicemails, texts, DMs, and more. On Tuesday we're bringing you an episode on comedy legend Bill Murray, and Jake wants to know: What's your favorite Bill Murray performance, on or off screen? Tell Jake at 617-906-6638, [email protected], or on socials @disgracelandpod. For more great Disgraceland episodes, dive into our extensive archive, including such episodes as: Episode 47 & 48 - The Beach Boys Episode 114 - Charles Manson Episode 115 & 116 - Cass Elliot Episode 108 & 109 - Sex Pistols To hear an extended version of the After Party, become a Disgraceland All Access member at disgracelandpod.com/membership. https://disgracelandpod.com/membership. Visit www.disgracelandpod.com/merch https://www.disgracelandpod.com/merch to see the latest Disgraceland merch! Sign up for our newsletter and get the inside dirt on events, merch and other awesomeness - GET THE NEWSLETTER https://mailchi.mp/doubleelvis/disgraceland-email-newsletter Follow Jake and DISGRACELAND: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/disgracelandpod/ YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@disgracelandpod X https://twitter.com/disgracelandpod (formerly Twitter) Facebook Fan Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/491024204626127/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is exactly right.

• 0:13Jake Brennan?

  I like a story with a twist as much as anyone, but some of the best traditions don't have one. They just started and kept going. That's something that's great about Chateau St. Michelle. They've been leading Washington wine since 1967 with wines that are balanced, expressive, and easy to enjoy. Choosing the right bottle shouldn't feel complicated. It should be something you open with confidence every time. So for once, here's a story with no twist, just a good bottle. Redefine your rituals with Chateau St. Michelle.

• 0:44Speaker 02

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• 1:14Jake Brennan?

  Hey, Discos. Need a little more DisgraceLand in your life? Just a touch to get you through? Yeah, me too. This is the podcast that comes after the podcast. Welcome to DisgraceLand: The After Party.

• 1:40Jake Brennan?

  Welcome to the DisgraceLand bonus episode, a little thing we like to call "The After Party." This is the show after the show, the party after the party, the bridge to get you from one full episode of DisgraceLand to the other, the backyard to dig into the dirt. On this bonus episode, we are talking about the most hedonistic entertainers from entertainment and just from history in general. Also talking about how to get from Charlie Sheen to Caligula in three quick steps. This week's full episode subject, the ultimate disgrace, Sean Diddy Combs. Your take on, well, all kinds of stuff from Diddy to Johnny Rotten and back again through the Rock and Roll Preservation Society, known as DisgraceLand, and as always, a whole lot of Rosie. All right, Discos, let's get into it.

• 2:30Jake Brennan?

  Okay, guys, if you do a Google search for the most hedonistic entertainers in Hollywood history, you're gonna get some easy returns suggesting quick reads on Peter O'Toole, Scotty Bowers, or Brigitte Bardot, or even Charlie Sheen. Now, Peter O'Toole seemed to be more of a classic hell-raising but harmless drunk. Scotty Bowers, more of a product of his time, a pre-Summer of Love Hollywood really pimp specializing in then taboo homosexual hookups. Bardot, of course, exuded sex, and the hedonism associated with her seems to be as much a projection of her horny biographers than it does of her own volition. Charlie Sheen's hedonism was on full public display, as we all know in the

• 3:14Jake Brennan?

  modern internet era, fueled by ego drugs. It didn't end, but it had an abrupt stop with a public disclosure over a HIV diagnosis and a retreat from the public eye largely for Charlie Sheen. Although he is back in, uh, what's he back in? I saw him recently in something, something on HBO. I can't remember, doesn't matter. The point is, I found none of these returns to be particularly shocking. So, I altered my search to most hedonistic historical figures, and when you do this, your first return from the old Google machine will undoubtedly refer you to the Roman Emperor Caligula, whose adoptive grandfather, Tiberius, played coincidentally by Peter O'Toole alongside Helen Mirren and

• 3:57Jake Brennan?

  Malcolm McDowell in the nearly X-rated penthouse-funded production of the film Caligula. Uh, Caligula, the historical figure, though, the Roman emperor, played by McDowell, was indeed a sick bastard whose sexual perversion was by any measure unique and horrific. Among Caligula's worst offenses is the act of incest against his sisters, not to mention the abuse of minors, and all of this is aside as a very public orgies meant in part to degrade Caligula's subjects. So, Google searches and now generative AI searches are interesting to me because-

• 4:37Jake Brennan?

  They provide a sort of unofficial party line for us as a culture on what our base level understanding is, top line understanding, I guess is the way to put it, on specific subjects. So judging from Google's top line, you'd think that hedonism in Hollywood, based on my search, was, well, kind of quaint. And that if you wanted examples on really sick hedonism, you'd have to go back centuries to the Roman emperor, to Caligula, via a nearly X-rated 70s flick produced by a skin rag that was universally panned by critics. But we all know that this isn't true. Hedonism is alive and well in Hollywood and has been

• 5:22Jake Brennan?

  since the beginning of Hollywood. It's alive and well in culture and has really been that way since the beginning of culture. We know this due to recent history, due to the facts, criminal cases that have come to light in modern times, you know, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby. This hedonistic impulse from powerful men, it's at the root of this week's full episode on Sean Diddy Combs, a part two episode, okay? It's not, it's not the part one episode we did about the nightclub shooting. This is the part two episode that we just released on Tuesday that deals with the current indictments Sean Diddy Combs is facing. In regards to the hedonism, when you read the indictments against Combs, the indictments from Cassie Ventura, from Little Rod Jones, and the federal indictment as

• 6:07Jake Brennan?

  well, you inevitably get to the questions of why and how? Why did Sean Combs do these things? And if we're to believe the allegations, allegations that Combs denies, why did Diddy reportedly sexually abuse his girlfriend? And again, if we're to believe the allegations, a whole other host of other alleged victims, when Combs, a billionaire, could presumably get whatever he wanted within the bounds of morality or legal behavior? And if the allegations are true, how? How did Combs get to the point where the only way he could satiate himself was through wild, abusive, exploitative, sexual behavior?

• 6:48Jake Brennan?

  You're gonna hear the reason why, the reason why I think in the episode, you have heard it already if you've listened. If you haven't, you need to check it out. But these questions, the why and the how, they're more interesting to me than which celebrities got caught up on tape at Diddy's parties. It's the psychology behind these alleged crimes. That's always been what's interested me. Okay, you've made it. You're a billionaire. You can, within reason, have whichever woman or man you want. You have the resources and the charm to sweep beautiful people off of their feet. You have kids, you have businesses and employees and scores of people who depend on you and who support you and believe in

• 7:28Jake Brennan?

  you, yet none of that is enough. And the normal, legal, acceptable means of gratification just don't do it for you anymore. So, so what? You turn yourself into a modern day Caligula? It is a fascinating question. The hedonism described, particularly in the Little Rod Jones indictment, is, it is especially horrific and degrading. It's hard to imagine, again, a person with seemingly everything and more to lose behaving in such a way without some sick, sick psychological miswiring driving them. Now, there are many allegations

• 8:11Jake Brennan?

  against Diddy. As we know, there's of course the allegations from the indictments that I deal with solely in this week's episode. But then there are the wild, largely unsubstantiated allegations that are all over TikTok. And these allegations, I've largely left them untouched. Okay. And when I have brought them up here in the after party, I've been careful to do so. But if you put the conjecture and the rumor aside, and you just focus on the allegations and the legal paperwork, as I did in this previous, in the story in the previous episode, full episode on Diddy, and if you believe these allegations from the indictments that have been legally brought against Combs, and increasingly, I do, the

• 8:51Jake Brennan?

  more I get into this, the more I believe what is being charged against Combs. Okay, again, allegations Sean Combs denies. If you believe these allegations, Then you have to understand that the line for Sean Combs was increasingly pushed. And eventually, that line was obliterated beyond the point of no return. To a point where I don't think the personal restraint was even able to be considered. That every impulse was driven by an extreme unimaginable narcissism and sociopathic impulse. And when you land at this point as an observer of Sean Diddy Combs,

• 9:31Jake Brennan?

  you wind up considering some of the wilder unsubstantiated claims against him. Because if he had no line, if he had no restraint, then yeah, maybe he could have done that awful shit that is being alleged. Maybe he could have done those things that Cassie is alleging. And who's to say that he couldn't have gone even further and done what is being rumored had happened to Justin Bieber? It's a vicious cycle. And frankly, it's driving me a little crazy. I can't wait for this trial to start. And I can't wait until we hopefully get at the truth here. I don't want to believe these allegations because they're too dark. And as I've said before, the victim damage is too severe.

• 10:14Jake Brennan?

  I don't want to believe that people can be this awful to other people. But of course, I know better, you know better. But still, I'd prefer that if the case of Sean Combs, the damage was limited to what we've seen in the indictments. However, as I'm getting to increasingly, as I research this, as I start to more fully understand not just the facts in the indictments, but more of what made Combs tick, the more I'm led to believe that the worst of this is true. That Sean Diddy Combs could quite possibly be one of the biggest disgraces, not just in our time, but in any time. A monster capable of standing tall next to towering figures of history,

• 10:58Jake Brennan?

  towering figures of disgrace like Caligula.

• 11:03Jake Brennan?

  One of the items I found in the Caligula wormhole, by the way, I got sucked into this, was that the powerful leader sometimes enticed and/or forced other powerful leaders into sex as a means to later blackmail them and benefit collegial politically. Now, that is very interesting. Okay. And you know why. I'm not going to go there yet, but I'm just gonna, just gonna leave that little tease. And if the facts start to support something like that, something that I'm hinting to here via Caligula, we will get into it. All right. More on the Sean Diddy Combs story over the coming months. I gotta take a break here, gotta take a beat and let more of this story develop before I produce any more full episodes like the one we just released this

• 11:46Jake Brennan?

  week. But expect more this spring as the trial starts to heat up. All right. That's in the, that's in the future, down the road. In the very near future, in the coming days, in the feed this week, we're going back to the very first episode of Disgrace Land on Jerry Lee Lewis. And we're doing this on purpose because there's a connection between Jerry Lee Lewis and Sean Diddy Combs. When I wrote and researched that Jerry Lee Lewis episode, I was, I knew where I was being pulled. And it was toward this idea of how Jerry Lee, how the killer was so on brand. How this guy with

• 12:27Jake Brennan?

  the nickname, the killer, had allegedly killed his wife, or maybe even two of his wives. And if you take the alleged murders out of the situation, and you just look at his behavior that is well documented and undisputed, you know, shooting his band member in the chest, lighting his piano on fire onstage to prevent Chuck Berry from going on after him and headlining, all kinds of just wild, wild behavior. When it got to the point of the actual allegations surrounding the murder of his wife, I'm talking about Sean Stevens in particular. It just seemed so on-brand to me. And as I researched more of Sean Combs, it's the same exact thing.

• 13:11Jake Brennan?

  And you'll hear that in the full episode. Just how on-brand these allegations are. The guy lived his life out in the open in a lot of ways. And he created this image of the sort of sexy hip hop, after dark mogul guy in Hollywood. And as you heard in this episode, there are all these instances of Sean Combs over the years on record, talking about his parties and his behavior in a way that supports. It doesn't, it doesn't, I don't want to get this twisted. It doesn't prove in any way the allegations, but it really, really supports them. And I just found that to be very, very interesting. We're 200, I think 220 episodes into Disgrace Land and we're still dealing with this, going

• 13:54Jake Brennan?

  back from the first episode on Jerry Lee Lewis to the latest episode on Sean Diddy Combs. When this Jerry Lee Lewis episode rewinds in your feed this week, I want you to re-listen to it with fresh ears, based on this sort of on-brand theme that I'm talking about relative to Diddy. It's fascinating to me and I'm pretty sure it will be to you guys as well. Okay, switching gears completely, we have our episode for you guys on Bill Murray. I love, love, love, love, love Bill Murray. I find him to be endlessly compelling, hysterical, cool beyond compare. And so when you're listening to this episode, I want you guys to be thinking about your favorite Bill Murray performances, okay? Stop thinking about the baby oil, stop thinking about murdered wives, allegedly.

• 14:36Jake Brennan?

  Let's think about some amazing iconic Bill Murray performances and text me and call me with your favorite Murray films. I'm doing this for selfish reasons because I want you guys to essentially curate my own little mini Bill Murray Film Festival next week, where I'm going to go into the rabbit hole, I'm going to watch a ton of Bill Murray movies. You can do it with me if you want. Hit me up, like I said, with your, with your favorite Bill Murray performances. You know, is it Stripes? Is it Lost in Translation? Is it Life Aquatic? Charlie's Angels? Whatever it is. Is it Bill behind the bar at your local, slinging drinks? Is it, you know, a house party you crashed in Brooklyn with, with Bill Murray hanging out? Did you run into Bill Murray on the golf course? It can be any Bill Murray performance. Performance on screen or not, just let me know 617-906-6638 and we'll get into it in

• 15:19Jake Brennan?

  the after-party next week. Send me a voicemail, leave me a text, or DM me at disgracelandpod on Instagram, Facebook, and X. I will be back right after this with your calls, texts, and DMs on last week's question of the week.

• 15:44Jake Brennan?

  I like a story with a twist as much as anyone, but some of the best traditions don't have one. They just started and kept going. That's something that's great about Chateau St. Michelle. They've been leading Washington wine since 1967 with wines that are balanced, expressive, and easy to enjoy. Choosing the right bottle shouldn't feel complicated. It should be something you open with confidence every time. So for once, here's a story with no twist, just a good bottle. Redefine your rituals with Chateau St. Michelle.

• 16:14Speaker 02

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 16:54Jake Brennan?

  All right, guys. Do me a favor real quick. If you're listening to this episode on Apple Podcasts, pick up your phone and open the Apple Podcast app. Make sure you're not only following the show, but that you have automatic downloads turned on too, okay? If you don't, there's going to be the possibility that you will miss future episodes of Disgraceland based on how the Apple algorithm works. So doing this will not only help the show, but will also make sure you do not miss the Bill Murray episode, or the upcoming Beastie Boys, or Blink 182 episodes that we have coming, or our after-parties, anything like that. Get your automatic downloads turned on in Apple Podcasts. Okay, the 716 text in. "The more you talk about the death of rock and roll, the more I hope that what you're working on is an elegy to rock and roll. If anyone should write that, it is you."

• 17:36Jake Brennan?

  716, I appreciate the text. You're right on, you're right on, you're on the right track with your thinking. This whole conversation of rock and roll being dead and all of us here in Disgrace Land preserving the spirit of rock and roll, this, this conversation we've been having about this for a while now that really kicked up during our discussion around the cramps a couple of months ago. I am thinking somehow of how to document this, how to document this thing that we're doing here beyond the podcast and not just in audio form, maybe, maybe not in elegy, but maybe something like a book or a book series or some sort of guide, something, something that really documents these stories of rock and roll animalism. I don't quite know

• 18:14Jake Brennan?

  what it is yet. So if you 716 or anyone else has any ideas, please call in or text 617-906-6638. This is why I started asking you guys about your stories because this rock and roll spirit extends beyond the history books. Okay. It lives in the ether. It's out there. It's in our collective memories. We all have versions of these stories from our own experiences and these stories, your stories are just as worthy of documentation as anything out there in the history books. And our stories are necessary too, especially when, I saw this this morning, especially when Billboard magazine is telling us that Hozier or Hozier, however you pronounce that dude's name and Billie Eilish are rock and roll. They are not rock and roll. Okay. They're perfectly

• 18:57Jake Brennan?

  fine. They're harmless, rock-ish artists, but they are not rock and roll. They're not dangerous. They're not subversive in any way. And that's what the best rock and roll is slash always was. And you guys remind me of this now every week. Okay. This goes like Elizabeth here from the 267 with this week's Disgrace Land's story of the week.

• 19:19Speaker 04

  Hey Jake, this is Elizabeth in Long Beach. Thanks for the killer episodes. I was just listening to After Party and I might be a little late on the Christmas song one, but this could also go with our rock and roll stories. So to make a long story short, I worked for many years in entertainment, doing production stuff, dressing rooms, all of it. And years ago, I was doing dressing rooms for Public Image Limited and I called this story, "The Day That Johnny Ron Did Not Disappoint Me." I had to shop and get some wine for the dressing rooms and I went into his room to explain to him that-

• 20:03Speaker 04

  There was a Christmas parade on Hollywood Boulevard that day, and so therefore I couldn't get to the wine store. And I told him what I had gotten him instead. And he just looked at me and I apologize in advance for the fucked up interpretation of the accent, but he looked at me and he said, "A Christmas parade. I hope they all have a miserable time." Which delighted me so much, because I grew up loving the Sex Pistols. I had met him once before when I worked at House of Blues and he was great to me then, but this one took the cake because it was exactly what I would have expected from him. So hopefully

• 20:46Speaker 04

  you appreciate that, and your listeners too, as a good rock and roll Christmas story. All right, cheers.

• 20:53Jake Brennan?

  Great story, Elizabeth. Thank you for the voicemail. Appreciate it. I love Johnny Rotten. I actually had the pleasure of having a drink with Johnny Rotten back in 2000 in Anaheim, California, of all places. And as he did for you, he did not disappoint. He not only lived up to his rock star status, but I found him to be surprisingly humble at the same time, which is a neat little trick that rock stars can sometimes play. And he was also hysterical. Incredible wit on that guy. Discos, especially those of you who, like Elizabeth, worked in entertainment. Roxanne from the Patreon, I am talking to you. And also those of you in bands, hit me up with your stories of rock and roll animalism, okay? It can be anything. It can be a run-in with a rock star. It can be something that you and your bandmates got up to. It can be anything humorous, debaucherous, doesn't

• 21:38Jake Brennan?

  matter. 617-906-6638, voicemail and text. And you might end up like Elizabeth here with the Disgrace Land Story of the Week. Okay, let's hear from Keith in the 763.

• 21:50Speaker 05

  Hey Jake, this is Keith from the 763. Just finished with your newest Diddy episode, and I have to tell you, that is some masterful storytelling. It was just listening to it was something else. I can see some people being upset one way or the other. You're probably getting complaints on both, but to me, it was just listening to you say what you had to say with the facts you had, and it was something special. So congratulations on yet another great episode. Thanks.

• 22:15Jake Brennan?

  Keith, thank you for the call and the kind words. I'm happy you dug the episode. Not a lot of complaints from Diddy defenders on this episode. I found that the Jay-Z defenders, however, are much more vocal and much more pissed and much quicker to defend Jay-Z than, it's hard to run into anybody defending Sean Combs. We'll see though, especially as we see how this Jay-Z case shakes out and, you know, whatever content we end up creating around that. All right, Tony from the 206.

• 22:46Speaker 06

  Hey Jake, Happy New Year. It's Tony from the 206. I know it's been a minute since I talked to you. Yeah, I think Diddy's guilty. No doubt about it. He's guilty. All the stuff they seize, the baby oil, the stories of the parties and the freak-offs and everything. You know, I don't know if there's a conspiracy behind this one. I think, you know, it goes back to that old mafia saying, "Just when you think you can't get touched, you get touched." I mean, think about it. How many times have we watched gangster movies like American Gangster or The Godfather or Goodfellas and you think you're untouchable and suddenly then, next thing you know, they

• 23:28Speaker 06

  got you. So, anyway, Happy New Year to you again, brother. Look forward to more of these Disgrace Land episodes, especially the ones on Diddy, and I'll be hearing from you soon.

• 23:40Jake Brennan?

  You know, Tony, maybe 1% of the feedback that I get from listeners and commenters on social media disagree with you. All right, if any of you out there, however, think that Diddy is innocent, I want to know what is driving your thinking. I would love to hear a take on Diddy's innocence, like a real take, a real defense of Sean Combs. Hit me up, let me know. All right, this one is a little bit outside of our editorial cycle, this voicemail here, but I want to play it because I find it to be interesting and I think you guys will. Matt, play the 760, please. Jake, Brennan from Seattle, Washington. Been listening to your podcast for a while now.

• 24:21Jake Brennan?

  I'm actually on my second playthrough because I have nothing else to do while I'm at work. And it dawned on me, been listening to the Charlie Manson Music Man thing, and I just discovered for the first time after my second playthrough.

• 24:37Speaker 06

  That I can actually fucking call you, which is cool. Uh, little fun fact, my great grandfather was the lead detective in the Gary Hinman cases. During all of that time, he was the one who connected Gary Hinman to the Tate La Bianca murders back in the 60s. Calvin Gunther, also went by Char- Charles. Um, my great grandfather passed away in 2014. I went through a couple of Manson parole hearings as a kid because I had nothing better to do and he had to watch me. Just wanted to share that and say that I think your opinion of why Manson committed those murders or had people commit those murders is actually the more spot on.

• 25:20Speaker 06

  Uh, Vincent is the, you know, the DA at the time was fucking wrong. If you ever want a good read about that stuff from my grandfather's point of view, is the book called The Family by Ed Sanders. My grandfather is actually in the book. Towards the back, there's pictures of him with his, uh, his partner, Paul Whitley. Um, love to hear about this, talk to you about it. Uh, whatever you may do or don't do, either which way, the playthrough of your podcast is just as good the second time around as it was the first. Keep up the good work, rock and roll.

• 25:54Jake Brennan?

  Seven six oh, I really appreciate the message. Thank you. Uh, fascinating, fascinating that your great grandfather was the, uh, was involved with the Gary Hinman case. And for those of you who don't know exactly what seven six oh is talking about. Gary Hinman was the school teacher, um, who was murdered on orders of Charles Manson by Bobby Bosale. And it was a murder that happened before the Tate La Bianca murders. Uh, and it looks like, uh, the seven six oh's grandfather was the one who made the connection between this murder and the Tate La Bianca murders, which was the first big break in that case.

• 26:33Jake Brennan?

  And, um, I'm going to take a little bit of pride here, uh, seven six oh, and the fact that you being so close to this information agree with, uh, our myth busting take on the Manson murders and that is. That the whole Helter Skelter explanation is a bunch of bunk and that Bullosi made it up. Of course, that is not my original take. That all comes from the incredible reporting done by Tom O'Neill in the book Chaos, which most of you who listen to the show have heard me talk about a gazillion times. 760, I have read The Family by Ed Sanders. I have a great copy of that book, by the way. One of my, one of the best books in my collection. And I really appreciate it. Stay close to the show 760. Call back anytime, all right?

• 27:17Jake Brennan?

  And I'm happy to jump on text and talk to you about, about Manson or anything else. All right, guys, 617-906-6638, voicemail and text. You can also hit me up at DisgraceLandPod on Facebook and Instagram and on X. On X, underscore 65 underscore Kiwi underscore Cabbie writes, "My two pennies. Diddy is guilty, guilty, guilty. To be honest, the feds can indict a Ham Sammy, but to bring it to court, they are 95% or greater. They are sure of a conviction." Underscore 65 underscore Kiwi underscore Cabbie. I tend to agree with you on this take. Underscore 65 underscore Kiwi underscore Cabbie, that if the feds are going to bring a case to court,

• 28:01Jake Brennan?

  they're pretty damn convinced that they're going to get a conviction. And this case is unique in that it's one where there's not really anyone above Diddy that Diddy can, can turn over to the feds that he can cut a deal for. I mean, I guess you could have made the, the argument that Lucian Grange, the CEO of Universal Music, who was named in one of the indictments, but his name was dropped. So apparently he's out of the picture. There's really no one that Diddy can trade up. So, I mean, I disagree with this take that the feds aren't going to indict unless they can bring a conviction in court. I think you're spot on. Underscore 65 underscore Kiwi underscore Cabbie. Okay, at DisgraceLandPod, hit me up on X, hit me up on Facebook.

• 28:46Jake Brennan?

  Over on Facebook, Kelly Brown writes, "Hi, DisgraceLand, longtime listener, first time messenger. I love the two Manson episodes," again, with the Charles Manson. I love this. People are deep in the archive. I appreciate it. Appreciate that. One of the craziest stories I heard about that night was from Quincy Jones. A few years ago Quincy Jones did an interview for, I believe, GQ Magazine. You'll have to forgive me on my memory. He said he was going to go over to visit Jay Sebring that night because he was experiencing issues with baldness and had it that Jay had something that could help him. He ended up not going, obviously, but could you imagine what we could have missed out on if Quincy was there? That's fascinating. You know, I think you're right, Kelly. I think it is GQ or it might be Esquire where Quincy Jones did that famous interview

• 29:28Jake Brennan?

  a couple of years ago. And that interview got so much press and was repeated in so many different places that I'm realizing now, I've never read the full interview because I've never heard this bit about Manson. But I feel like I've read the whole interview because it's just been, it's been clipped and sent out all over the place. All the bit about, you know, having sex with Brando and all that stuff. I gotta go back and read this because this is, your question is fascinating here, Kelly. If Quincy Jones gets killed that night, we don't get Thriller. Can you imagine? Thriller. No Thriller. I can't imagine that. I just can't. Great message, Kelly. Appreciate you. Just a quick heads up, guys. Kelly over on Facebook, she's, uh, she's about to be the recipient of some incredible disgracing content, video content that we're going to be unleashing over on the Facebook

• 30:13Jake Brennan?

  peeps this year. This will be different from the, the short form video content that we are releasing on Instagram. And I'm looking forward to it. I know Kelly will be looking forward to it. But over on Instagram, Coco writes in, "Hey, try making a tea with thyme. I've tried all the remedies and this one seemed to help the most and the fastest. In my case, it helped with a persistent cough, but I feel like it would help with sinuses too." Coco is referring to, as you can hear, guys, my sinus infection. Pesky little bugger that this guy is, won't go away. It's been stuck up in my face for now, uh, over a week. I had a cold and as it will do, developed into a sinus infection. Now you're unfortunately hearing the result of that in the microphone. And I apologize for that, but Coco, I just

• 30:55Jake Brennan?

  want to thank you for thinking of me and sending me that text. I appreciate it. You guys are the best. At Disgraceful Pod to hit me up, 617-906-6638. I'll be back in a flash.

• 31:18Jake Brennan?

  All right, guys. Monique over on Apple Podcasts. Thank you, Monique. I like you. I like you a lot, based on this review. Thanks. Five stars. Says, "I love Jake Brennan. Look, this podcast blows my mind. I was raised by a biker and a hippie. Music is my life. My favorite episodes thus far are the Dimebag Daryl episode, which blew me away. I never even cared about Dimebag Daryl, but that episode changed my brain. Second fave, the John Denver Conspiracy episode. I loved it." Thank you. I love you, Monique. Monique, I love you too. You're the best. Guys, leave a review over on Apple Podcasts. I know I ask a lot of you reviews. Now I'm asking you on Apple Podcasts to make sure that you are turning on automatic downloads, as well as following the show. The reason is because the algorithms are tricky beasts, and we need to master them, so that the show continues

• 32:01Jake Brennan?

  to thrive, and it continues to be discovered by new listeners. The reviews help. Monique, hit me up. I will get you some merch. Hit me up on Instagram, or send me an email. Hit me up on X, wherever. Get in touch. We'll get you some merch. You guys can also leave reviews on Spotify, if you're Spotify listeners. And M Weeks, I want you to hit me up, because your review, it's gushing. It's a little too positive. I'm not going to read it here, but M Weeks, you know who you are, and your review is on the recent episode of Sean Diddy Combs, Part Two. Thank you. You are the best. Get in touch. Guys, 617-906-6638, at Disgrace Lampod, and of course, Disgrace [email protected]. Send me an email. All right, this email comes

• 32:44Jake Brennan?

  from Michael Murphy, who writes in, "Hey, Happy New Year, Jake. I was wondering, I know it got lost in the mix of the themed episodes from the past two months, but can we please get around to talking about the John Waters episode at some point? It was probably my favorite All-Access episode so far, and I actually remember calling in about spotting him in the wild, namely at the East End Cafe in Provincetown, and how he was one of the nicest celebrities I ever met. Incidentally, on a separate time, when my family was vacationing on the Cape, I ran into Les Claypool of Primus, possible episode topic. He was nursing a beer, and I was munching on some chips, and he was pulling the old, 'Do you know who I am?' line. I mean, I just said, 'Yeah,' and then was silent." Then I gave him the side eye and I just said, Woodstock 94, baby. Woodstock 94.

• 33:26Jake Brennan?

  And that made him crack up and say, oh, man, that was so long ago. Keep up the great work and rock a roller. Mike from the 508. P.S. I'm still waiting on the Dead Kennedys episode I recommended four years ago. Mike, I was just talking about the Dead Kennedys with my father a couple of days ago in reference to my cold. The last awful cold I had that was as bad as this, I believe I got it from Jello the Afro at South by Southwest. Jello won't know anything about that, but I walked off stage and a joint was stuck in my face immediately. And I just, as one does, pulled off of it. And then I realized it was handed to me by Jello the Afro. And then I just handed it to my right and I realized I was handing it to Mojo Nixon.

• 34:11Jake Brennan?

  And after I got over the shock of all that, I got the worst cold of my life. So anyways, I digress. John Waters, yes, there was an All Access episode of John Waters. For those of you guys who don't know, we have a whole thing called All Access. You can be a member. It's five bucks a month. In addition to getting ad free listening and getting bonus content as part of this after party, you also get an exclusive episode per month. One of our recent ones is on John Waters. That's what Michael's talking about here. And yeah, that episode kind of came and went with not, without a lot of fanfare. And it's, but it's hard, you know, we, I tend to, I get so caught up in talking to you guys about the widely released subject matter that we have here, that I, that I tend to just, it just, it's hard to talk about all of it.

• 34:51Jake Brennan?

  And I apologize for that. And yeah, man, I'm here. Hit me up. Text me 617-906-6638. Michael, you want to talk more about the John Waters episode? I'm here for it. Guys, if you want, if you want in on this exclusive episode, you get the exclusive episode per month. You want in on this action, go to disgracelandpod.com/membership, sign up. Like I said, it's wicked cheap, kid. It's five bucks per month. All right. Cost of a, of an expensive coffee or a cheap IPA. I don't know. All right, guys, this episode is nearing its end, but for the, but for the All Access members we were just talking about, after party is going to continue. Okay. I'm going to talk a little bit in the bonus section. This after party about where I think the Sean Combs case currently is right now,

• 35:35Jake Brennan?

  what the percentages are around the various outcomes that can happen from his case that's coming up this spring. Also going to give you a little bit about the, the current state of Sean Diddy Combs' living conditions and some of the drama that's going on behind the scenes in jail for Mr. Diddy. That's all coming up right away. You want to, you want to get into that? You want to get right into that today? You want those ad free episodes as well? You want that exclusive episode per month? You can sign up at disgracelandpod.com/membership. That's only five bucks a month. All right. As always, thanks for your support. I will be back in a flash.

• 36:18Jake Brennan?

  I like a story with a twist as much as anyone, but some of the best traditions don't have one. They just started and kept going. That's something that's great about Chateau St. Michelle. They've been leading Washington wine since 1967 with wines that are balanced, expressive, and easy to enjoy. Choosing the right bottle shouldn't feel complicated. It should be something you open with confidence every time. So for once, here's a story with no twist, just a good bottle. Redefine your rituals with Chateau St. Michelle.

• 36:48Speaker 02

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• 37:23Jake Brennan?

  All right, guys, I'm back. I'm about to get out of here. We mentioned a bunch of awesome episodes from our archive in today's after party. Charles Manson, of course. And as you know, it being New Year's, we just reran our, our two-part Beach Boys episodes. That's the first time I got into the Charles Manson story. It's important to note that my thinking On the Manson case and Helter Skelter was conventional at the point that I produced, wrote and produced those episodes. So what you're going to hear, if you listen to those two episodes that are Manson related, and then you go on to listen to the Charles Manson episode that we produced, and then the two Mama Cass episodes that follow that one, you're going to hear a total reversal of opinion on my part on what I think happened during the Tate, Labianca murders and who is to blame. It's kind of an evolution of

• 38:08Jake Brennan?

  thought. I don't know. Check it out. If you're going to listen to them all, I guess, as a set piece, start with the Beach Boys episodes, then listen to Manson, and then listen to the Mama Cass episodes. In the show notes for this after party, we'll have the specific episode number and date, make it easy for you guys to find. We also brought up Johnny Rotten. We have a two-part episode on the Sex Pistols in our archive. I don't, I don't talk about that one enough. Zeth Lundie wrote, wrote those, and he wrote the shit out of them, man. They, the writing's really great. Check those out. Justin Bieber came up, as he does these days on certain media, and we do have a Justin Bieber episode. For those who practice, you know, Bieber appreciation, it's there for you in the archive. All right, let's recap, shall we? Number one, I want your story. Call me, text me, hit me on the

• 38:52Jake Brennan?

  socials with your favorite story of rock and roll animalism, as wild as a story about a rock star that you're aware of, or a story about a rock star that you want me to tell, something I might have already told before in an episode that you want to talk more about now, we can do that here. Maybe it's a story about you and your friends running into a rock star like we had today with Elizabeth and Johnny Rotten. You know, let me know who you are, where you're from, how long you've been listening to the show, and your story might end up being the Disgrace Land story of the week. Number two, right now in your feed, our part two episode on Sean, Diddy Combs. Number three, coming tomorrow, rewinding all the way back to the very first episode of Disgrace Land, Jerry Lee Lewis. Number four, merch winners, get in touch. You know who you are. Number five, remember, no one cares about preserving the true spirit of rock and roll more than you do, and well,

• 39:35Jake Brennan?

  that's a disgrace. All right. Sean Combs was born on November 4th, 1969, and on that day, if you were listening to the radio, these were the songs you were hearing per the Billboard charts. Number one, Suspicious Minds, Elvis Presley. Last week, five. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, eight. Number two, Wedding Bell Blues, The Fifth Dimension. Last week, seven. Peak position, two. Weeks on chart, six. Number three, Sugar Sugar, The Archies. Last week, three. Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, fifteen. Number four, I Can't Get Next to The Temptations. Last week, one.

• 40:20Jake Brennan?

  Peak position, one. Weeks on chart, twelve. Number five, Baby Is Here, Smith. Last week, eight. Peak position, five. Weeks on chart, nine. Number six, Hot Fun in the Summertime, Sly and the St.

• 40:41Jake Brennan?

  Quit talking and start mixing. Cut it. I like a story with a twist as much as anyone, but some of the best traditions don't have one. They just started and kept going. That's something that's great about Chateau St. Michelle. They've been leading Washington wine since 1967 with wines that are balanced, expressive, and easy to enjoy. Choosing the right bottle shouldn't feel complicated. It should be something you open with confidence every time. So for once, here's a story with no twist, just a good bottle. Redefine your rituals with Chateau St. Michelle.

• 41:17Speaker 02

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• 41:47Jake Brennan?

  Hey guys, time to dust off your detective skills while unwinding in the Caribbean on Virgin Voyages' second true crime voyage. It's backed by popular demand. This five-night, adults-only escape sets sail March 20th, 2027 to Grand Turk in the Beach Club at Bimini. The difference between this year and last will be that I will be on the cruise this year, along with Zeph, and he and I will be taping a live version of DisgraceLand, along with podcast hosts from Exactly Right's Buried Bones, Podcast of the Year Award winners, Wisecrack, and other fan favorites. Get on this cruise with us, guys, and enjoy live podcast recordings, behind-the-scenes storytelling, exclusive meet-and-greets, and immersive true crime programming throughout this one-of-a-kind voyage.

• 42:32Jake Brennan?

  Head over to www.virginvoyages.com/trucrime to secure your spot.