SURVIVED: Fallon Farinacci

In honor of May being National Missing and Murdered Indigenous Persons Awareness Month, Brit sits down with Red River Métis woman and survivor Fallon Farinacci to hear her story—and how a series of tragic events set her on a path toward tremendous advocacy and change for her community.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ashley Flowers?

  When you're out in nature, you learn to trust your instincts. You pay attention to the trail, your surroundings, and you stay alert to protect yourself from harm. But what if the biggest threat isn't the environment at all? On Park Predators, host Delia Diambra explores true crime cases that happen in national parks and remote wildernesses, the places we usually think of as safe and peaceful. Each episode reveals what happened and how much more there is beneath the surface. Listen to Park Predators now, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Britt. And it's just me for right now, but not for long. So let me fill you in. A few months ago, our team was working on a case involving a girl who, along with her siblings, survived a home invasion in 1993 in which a man broke in and killed both of their parents. That girl was Fallon Farinacci, and she is now a dedicated advocate for missing and murdered Indigenous people, working to bring awareness, justice, and policy changes to address the crisis affecting Indigenous communities. And so, in honor of May being National Missing and Murdered Indigenous Persons Awareness Month, we thought this was an important story to share. But it's her story. So who better to tell it than herself? Today, I've invited Fallon to the Crime Junkie Clubhouse

• 1:16Speaker 01

  so we can hear directly from her. Now, before we jump in, I will tell you right up here at the top that we will not be naming Fallon's parents' killer throughout the episode. For your reference, his name is Andre Ducharme, but as I'm sure you can understand, Fallon prefers not to use his name. She only refers to him as "her mom's stalker" or "the stalker", and out of respect, I'll be doing the same. All right, enough of me. This is the story of Fallon Farinacci.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Fallon, welcome to the Crime Junkie Clubhouse. We are so thankful you are here. You came all the way from Canada to be with us here in Indiana, and that's just incredible.

• 2:27Speaker 02

  I am so grateful to be here and to be able to come here to tell my story and share it with all of you.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, so let's start with a little bit about you. Talk us through your background, your childhood. Tell us about your culture.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I'm Red River Métis. I grew up in rural Manitoba, a tiny predominantly Métis community just outside of Winnipeg. And so for those who don't necessarily know what Métis is, a long story short is I am Indigenous and so was my father. He grew up really proud to be Indigenous, and so he instilled that in me at a young age. There wasn't really any kind of difference from my everyday life to culture, traditions, or community.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  It was just all, it was life?

• 3:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was all a part of it. I always explain to people it happened around the kitchen table, you know?

• 3:22Speaker 01

  It sounds like a really beautiful way to grow up. Really, really tight family, really close and happy.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  But we're here today for a specific reason, and I think now is like a really good time to kind of turn into that. Can you take me to everything that that kind of happened?

• 3:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. So in November of 1992, this man who we knew, he was a community member. He threatened my mother's life. Leading up to that, he started crossing boundaries, and boundaries in the sense of like, just making you feel uncomfortable wasn't usual behavior. There wasn't anything specific. And then this really kind of crossed the last boundary. And he called our family home and he, he had asked my mom where his birthday cake was. He had found out that my mother had went to a coworker. Worker's birthday party and my mom never made him a cake. So that is really what kind of made her feel uncomfortable to get off the phone right away. And so she said to him, I threw it in the garbage.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  And I have to go, I have the kids bingo and hung up. We had a community bingo. As I said, it was like a really tight knit community. So he called back and he threatened my mom and he said that she wouldn't live to see her next birthday. And that he wouldn't live to see his. So she took it really seriously. They called the RCMP, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. And they brought him before a judge that evening. And they failed though to tell the judge that my mother and father had told the RCMP that she was concerned that they had, that he had, sorry, a 22 caliber rifle. So there was no seizure of weapons. There was no search of his home, anything like that. And he was released.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  And then in December, you know, my mom continued to hear from community members that he was continuing to want to take my mother and my father's lives. And so from there, my mom wrote the RCMP a letter. And in that letter, she stated that again, she was concerned about this 22 caliber, but also a handgun. The letter was never filed. And so it wasn't brought before a judge or anything like that. And now we're in January of 1993 and my family's case landed on the desk of a family Crown attorney.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Which it's like family Crown would be like family court here in the States.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  So like custody and stuff like that, that's not the situation at all.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Not at all. No, this was criminal. He had threatened their lives. So along this case, we heard a lot of like errors, you know, human error. And so this was one of those human errors. But for some reason, this Crown picked it up and then felt it was appropriate to have a mediation.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Which, again, like, in family court, would make sense. Like, you have mediations as like, like, a means to an end, but that's, again, not the case here.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  No, I mean, I wouldn't want to sit with someone

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Absolutely not.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  That threatened my life, so it just baffles my mind that

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  That was what should be done.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, especially like, it comes across your desk, you open it, to continue on with it versus like, oof, passing it off to like, who it actually belongs to, where it can actually be handled.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  Properly.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Properly, with the court system that should be handling it, feels like more than human error.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. And from there, there was a temp in this law clerk position, which, again, human error, fine, but she accidentally mailed my mother the stalker's information, and he got my mother's.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, there were laws that were, I forget, like, the verbiage. There was laws that were in place but weren't enacted at the time to protect women. And like my grandma says, my mom's mom, what good is a restraining order? At the end of the day, it's a piece of paper.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Right, and I know here in the States, it's one of those things where you can't even act on it until it's violated.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  Right? So, like, it's there, until what?

• 7:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  Like, it doesn't do any good

• 7:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  in a lot of cases.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I had asked my dad's best friend, Ken Bowden, I had said to him even from my dad's perspective, was my dad really scared? And he said, yeah, absolutely, he could hear it in his voice that he was scared. And so, because of this, my mom had decided she was absolutely not going through this with mediation.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  I mean, she was already scared, but this was just catapulting it. And so, from there, they didn't show up for the mediation. There was supposed to be a mediation on January 26th. So, he was released back out into the public again. And he came to our family home on January 27th, and he knocked on the door. My older brother was awake. It was just after midnight. Myself, my younger sibling, my parents, we were all sleeping. And when my brother answered the door, he was standing on the other side of the door with the same 22 caliber rifle that they had warned the police about. Yeah. And he instructed my brother to go downstairs into our family home.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  And he tied up my brother and I would say he like verbally tortured him. He, you know, talked about killing my parents and how he couldn't live without my mother. And so my brother had to endure that for a number of hours before he finally told my brother that he was gonna go upstairs. And he used the words "do the deed" to go kill my parents. My older brother had to write a suicide note, I guess, in a way, for this man, just instructing him to tell his family, his friends, that he was sorry for what he was doing.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  And then around 2:30 in the morning, he went upstairs in our family home. And that's when my brother heard the gunshot. Before that, he had heard my dad yell some things in French because it was a French Métis community. So he had yelled some things. My brother didn't speak French, so he didn't know what they were saying to each other. And then he did shoot and kill my father. I'm assuming that that's the sound that woke myself and my younger brother up at that time.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  And so the way our bedroom was, it's just like a regular bungalow. So I was at the top of the hallway and my parents in my brother's room were side by side. And so when I woke up, I immediately tried to go into my parents' bedroom because I didn't know what was going on. And I was nine at the time, and so I'm trying to push the door open, but there's clearly someone on the other side of the door. And so I give up at that point, but I don't know what it was. Something told me that it was an emergency to go call 911. I don't have any recollection of something being said, you know, that made me feel in danger. It just felt like, I'm looking at my younger brother. He's standing in the hallway and he's screaming, crying. And I'm thinking, okay, something is wrong.

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• 12:50Speaker 01

  How old were you and your brothers when all this happened?

• 12:53Speaker 02

  So my older brother Carson was 17 and then my younger brother Clinton at the time was five.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Okay, and you were nine?

• 13:02Speaker 02

  And I was nine, yes. And so I went to call for help, but I accidentally dialed the wrong number. And so then I could see a dark shadow coming, running towards me. So I dropped the phone and I run into the basement and hide at this point. And eventually my mom, the stalker, and my younger brother all come downstairs. And that's when my younger brother finds me and he tries to pull me out and I'm like begging him not to. It was terrifying because at the same time, he's screaming and yelling because he can't find my brother. But he had escaped at 2:30 when the gunshot went off. He thankfully was able to get out of the basement window and he ran to my parents'

• 13:47Speaker 02

  best friend's home and my best, my childhood best friend's parents' home. And they called 911 at, well, it's a seven-digit number, forgive me, at the time and the rural community, it was not 911 times. And so they called for help and they stated, you know, he is, entered our home. And my brother said, you know, we're in, my parents are in court with him right now and he has a gun. They heard a gunshot go off and that us kids were being held in the hatler, that, not that we're being held hostage, but we're in the house.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  But you guys were still there.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  Yes. And so the way the chain of command goes, that 911 dispatcher would let the officers know who were on duty at the nearby police station. So that's about 45 minutes from my community, but that police station closes at 2:00 AM.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  And this is happening after 2:30?

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Yes. So they would call the constable on duty and let him know. And then he would then give, you know, further instructions. So they did. They called him and he said, "Go out to the Paul residence and see if you can get him to come out and talk to him."

• 14:56Speaker 01

  As if he's a rational person right now.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. As if none of the other information had been said at all.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  Or was important.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  Yes, he was also the only trained hostage negotiator for this RCMP station.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  So like the person who should have been going out and talking to this clearly irrational person.

• 15:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Holding hostages.

• 15:17Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. He could have called for SWAT, anything, backup, but he didn't. And instead of, you know, just hanging up the phone and maybe getting up himself because he'd know he'd have to come here.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  Keeping an eye on the situation he is responsible for.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, he accidentally fell back asleep.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  I can't imagine having that position and doing that, like having such disregard for the situation.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  Yes. And also, one thing I didn't tell you was that the stalker had 13 prior convictions. And the RCMP station, the same one fought bail for this man in 1990, saying he should not be released, that he was a danger to the community.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 16:01Speaker 02

  Yes. So by time, he's in the basement with us kids and my mom. And at this time, he's losing his mind. So he's upset. He looks at my mom and he tells my mom, she's gonna have to pick whether it's myself or my younger brother that dies next if we can't find my older brother.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  Who isn't in the house at all anymore.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  Not at all. And my mom doesn't know. And so we looked in all and all of the places. I mean, it's a tiny little basement and it was all open and a rec room. And so eventually my mom wanted to separate him from us because he threatens our life. And she gave me a hug. We're sitting on the stairs and she hugged me and said, I'm gonna go upstairs with him. You stay down here and call for help. So they went upstairs and we stayed downstairs. And I went to pick up the phone and it wasn't even up on the telephone, like this little stand that she had. It was on the floor. It had been ripped out of the wall, the cord.

• 16:59Speaker 02

  And I don't know. I mean, obviously I can't have regrets now, but that is one thing that sticks out in my mind is I wish I had just plugged it back in because it wasn't like ripped, broken. It was just, I thought I would get electrocuted if I plugged it in.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  You were a kid.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  I know. And I do try to give myself that grace when I think back. So we stayed in the basement and eventually we fall asleep.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  So my mom's upstairs for two hours with this man. And so at 5:30, there's two officers outside of our home.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  Just like, hey, come out.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, so they they do make contact with my mom. It must have been right after she went upstairs.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  They call the house and my mom answers and she answers one sided questions. Are you okay? Are you hurt? A lot of the answers she gives, though, are maybe, I don't know, because she's just.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  She's trying to protect herself.

• 17:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, but he doesn't stop her from being on the phone. That's like the whole part I never really understood. I think it's just, I think of, he had been drinking and he was doing drugs before coming to our house. From what witnesses had seen him before, earlier in the day. He went and he drank a bottle of sherry. Yeah, it's just one of those things that, I guess repulse maybe is the word for me, you know, like, with my mom's name being Sherry. Yeah, so I just think he probably continued down that before coming to our home. And so at the end of the call, she says, you know, can I, can you call me back in the morning?

• 18:43Speaker 02

  I have to go. And so then at that point, they let her know help is on the way. But there was no real help coming at all. At 5:30, the two officers are instructed to go get my brother. And then they bring him to this command post that they're finally setting up in a community next to ours, not even in our community.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  And this is a small community, like I grew up in a small town, like there's usually not a lot around small communities, like you're kind of just a little dot on the map.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  So this isn't close by.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  No.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Not as close as it could be, at least.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  No, exactly. It could have been just at our town hall.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  But instead, it's like eight to 10 minutes down the road. And I mean, at this point, we're three hours into it. Well, more technically from the time that he entered our home. And so my brother has to go there and he, he watches them, the no sense of urgency, use a ruler to try to draw out a map of our house. Meanwhile, there's still no SWAT at our home. And I'm sleeping, my younger brother and I fall asleep. At 5:30, I must hear a noise. I'm gonna guess it was a gunshot that woke me up because my mom was shot in the arm. I don't know that it's her arm because when I finally get upstairs, I try to go into now my bedroom and I can hear my mom on the other side of the door.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  And she said, why do you have to shoot me? You already shot me in the arm. And I'm thinking she thought, I'm just genuinely realizing this right now. I'm thinking she thought it was maybe a police officer on the other side of the door.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  And so she's like, she's saying all this to like, inform who's ever on the other side.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, because why would she say that otherwise? Sorry, I just realized that, so yeah. And so I get scared by hearing that and I run into my parents' room. And the whole time, my, my little brother stays with me. And I get up on the bed and I go to call for help. I call the emergency number again and I asked them for three ambulance because I don't know where my brother is.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Right, you still haven't found him.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  No, yeah. And then I, I call another time and 911 dispatcher hangs up on me. We don't know why, but they hang up on me. And I realize, I look over and I see my dad. And when I tell you, it was like, oh my gosh, he's gonna help us. Like, why isn't he helping us? So I tried to wake him up, but I didn't know at the time he was dead already at that time. My younger brother came around the side of the bed. And he saw my dad. I didn't, but I could tell by his reaction that something was wrong. So I just, I just left my dad. It's almost like I just moved away from him.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  And I didn't touch him again after that. I just left him alone. And it's at just after six o'clock, between six and six thirty, that my mom tries to leave my bedroom. And she shot one more time. She shot in the shoulder, but because of the type of weapon it is, the, the bullet spirals, and so it severed her spinal cord. And she died right in front of myself and my younger brother. He stayed in my bedroom. And then I heard a noise and I had, I mean, it's classic nineties. I had a wicker shelf. I thought he knocked it over. And I remember getting so mad in my head, like he knocked over my shelf. He's breaking my stuff.

• 22:22Speaker 02

  And it wasn't, it was the sound of the gun. He turned it on himself and he committed suicide on my childhood bedroom floor. And we don't know that. So we stay in my parents' room.

• 22:36Speaker 02

  And eventually my mom's alarm goes off at seven because she would have been getting us ready for school.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:45Speaker 02

  And I take the phone off the hook at that point because it's like an alarm and phone all in one. And I'm worried that he's going to come into the room. Eventually, my younger brother and I move onto the floor and we're on the opposite side of the bed. So we're trying to hide there so that if he does get up, he can't see us.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  And so we continue to wait and wait. And it's not until after seven AM that the SWAT team shows up outside. And there's a big gap, obviously, when we're waiting for help after my parents die, where we're sitting and waiting. I never share it because it feels so dehumanizing.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  Um, so I had to go to the bathroom and I had broken my arm. Um, rural winter wonderland of Manitoba. And I had to have a bag over my arm. Um, because I was like, you know, have those pump things that they put over. And so the option was to cross my mom's body. And risk him seeing us because I thought he was alive still. Or, um, I had to use the garbage bag and like lay it out and then go to the bathroom. And so I always thought like, when they came in after I was mortified, mortified of these

• 24:13Speaker 02

  police officers coming in and it just like, it seemed so, I don't know. It just seemed like we're already in this position and now I had to do this.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. When did someone finally come in?

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Not until eight thirty in the morning.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  The stalker got to your house after midnight. Your brother escaped after two thirty and no, no law enforcement came into the house until after eight thirty that morning.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  Eight thirty. And when they came in, they, they just yelled out, this one's gone, this one's gone. Well, first they, you know, the usual RCMP, whatever they might say like weapons down. Yeah. Um, and then I can just hear them, one officer yell out, this one's gone, this one's gone. And then this one's gone. And then next thing you know, there was two paramedics, um, who were community members. They were my friends' fathers. They came in, they threw two blankets over us and picked us up and carried us out. And when they were carrying us out to the ambulance, I could hear a man speak and I thought it was my brother. I remember shifting a little my weight, like, oh my gosh, Carson's

• 25:27Speaker 02

  here. He's okay. You know, because at this point I have no idea where he is.

• 25:31Speaker 01

  You haven't seen him since you went to bed the night before.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. And so we were put in the ambulance and then they had asked that. Ambulance to be sent to the Ms. Acordia Hospital so that we could go see my mom's coworkers and everyone there and that they could take over and look at us.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  There, just to make sure that like we weren't hurt and nothing was done to us. And it was there that they corralled us into a room and told us at that point that my parents had in fact died.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 26:04Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. And then later that night, the RCMP came and I gave my statement. And it was actually, I only realized this probably in the last couple of years. You know how authority figures can do a great job at making us question ourselves? I gave my statement and I told the RCMP officer, and this is when my mom said, why do you have to shoot me? You already shot me in the eye. He said, your mother wasn't shot in the eye. And I said, well, she said, um, why do you have to shoot me? You shot me in the eye. And he said, she never said that. So I don't know why you're saying she said that.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like he looked at me like, I remember thinking like, that genuinely is probably a moment where I like began questioning my own thoughts, my own memory.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. I was gonna say, if some, like if I was in that situation now as an adult, I'd be like, wait, maybe I would even question myself and you were nine.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's like often, you know, where does imposter syndrome come from?

• 27:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  Right?

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  And I think that that's probably a moment that was the beginning.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  It was really formative. Yeah.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 27:24Speaker 01

  And what stands out to me in all of this is you talked earlier about like human error. This wasn't one human error two months before this happened. This wasn't one human error the night that it happened. This was error upon error upon misstep upon misstep the entire way through.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, we have this officer questioning what I know I heard.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  As a child.

• 27:50Speaker 02

  As a child, like, yeah, she said arm, but I'm listening to her behind a door.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:55Speaker 02

  So we have that. We go back to the initial. Those two officers taking my mother's statement, failing to tell the judge about the rifle that she's concerned about. How about we go back to even 1990 where they let him out and they say that he's

• 28:11Speaker 01

  No threat to society.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. And then from there, we have the, the letter that was never filed. The law clerk who accidentally

• 28:22Speaker 01

  The case being sent to family court, not criminal court.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  Exactly. And it proceeding to go to the mediation.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  In family court. Yeah.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And then not even like the inquiry process where I, you know, I didn't tell you how the judge blamed the townspeople, saying that they should have done more to protect our family.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Which, I'm sorry, I thought that's what law enforcement was for. Like, these are the very people put in place.

• 28:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. Right?

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Like by the government to protect you.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  To protect you. Quite literally their job.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's kind of their whole thing.

• 28:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then we have officers who, you know, didn't actually enter our home. SWAT never came in, didn't get out to our community. The officer who fell asleep. Like, they're all taking the stand. One officer says that my mom, by telling him she threw the cake in the garbage, that

• 29:18Speaker 01

  Started it?

• 29:18Speaker 02

  That was a reaction. Yeah, she, she gave him.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  She was the instigator?

• 29:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 29:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  Not the man stalking her.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  No.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Not his problem.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  Response to that was the problem.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  So what was next for you and your siblings? What was the future like for you guys?

• 29:35Speaker 02

  So a few days after, honestly, I don't even know how long after they passed, we had the funeral in our community. And I just think of how full the church was. It was filled with, you know, the firemen, the community members, people from my mom's work. And I just remember sitting there and I was still. You know, I was in shock, like it's out of body kind of experience of like looking around and thinking like, oh, everyone's here. But it still didn't really grasp the idea of like what I had like completely lost and like this new normal.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  But it was hard because we had to move within a month's time. And I mean, this was a community that I had known my whole life.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  And small.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  And small, yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it was just so difficult. I didn't want to leave. And when we first moved there, we had to live with my aunt. But Carson turned eighteen within a month of moving out there. So within two months of my parents passing away, he had turned eighteen. So he like, quote, aged out, right?

• 30:50Speaker 01

  He becomes an adult.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. Which is also just sad for him. Like I have a nineteen year old. I couldn't imagine him just being like, okay, you're on your own now because no one's getting money for you to take care of you. So.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Especially what he went through.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:08Speaker 01

  And being responsible for trying to save his family.

• 31:12Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. And so my brother, my younger brother and I stayed at my aunt's house, but we only lived there. I only lived there for a year. It was, just made me feel so uncomfortable. And my grandma listened and she had suggested that I move in with her. So I lived there with my grandma for a little bit. My grandma sent me home to Manitoba every summer, so I got to go back there. But it's not, I didn't want to live with my grandma. I just didn't want to live in Ontario. So my aunt said to me, if you want, you can go live in Manitoba. And I said, no, nanny would never let me. She said, no, I'm your guardian. If I say you can, you can.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  So she got me on a plane and I went back to Manitoba. I lived with one of my family members there for a little bit, and then eventually I moved in with Ken and Debbie Bowden, my parents' best friends. My best friend's parents. I mean, it was a dream come true. I now get to call my best friend my sister. Like, that was the best in the world. Yeah. I think it was a blessing though, that I did get to go home as much as I did. Cause I know a lot of folks who endure things, it's hard for them to go back to where, you know, the crime happened or the traumatic event. I think a lot of people think, oh, you all went through the same thing. We all went through different things and everyone processed things differently as well, right?

• 32:34Speaker 02

  So along the way, my older brother, he took his own life.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  Because of the lack of mental health support.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  That's ultimately what I would say it was really at the end of the day. So he took his own life. And losing him was harder than going through what I went through with my parents. Just because it was, yeah, so he was my everything. I looked up to him so much. So it was really hard losing him. Then my younger brother, I noticed in 2023, his mental health was on a decline. And I mean, let's be honest, men don't talk about their mental health. I mean, we don't, right? But men especially don't talk about their mental health the way that they should be.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  And it's shameful for them.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  There's even more of a stigma.

• 33:37Speaker 02

  So much, yeah, around it. You know when someone's not doing well. And I think that's what hits me so hard with this is that in November of 2023, my younger brother took his life as well. And you know, when they talk about denial, I didn't feel that with my parents. And I didn't feel that with my, I mean, I felt it with my older brother where it's like, oh, I thought I saw him. You know, I saw a car driving by and I thought he was in it. This, I immediately said, no, no, let's go. Look, we have to go check. Yeah.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  Like, and that was really, really difficult. And with my brother's death, one thing that had prepared me, my older brother's death for my younger brother's death was that I had this epiphany moment with my older brother. I was driving down the street, someone was walking down the street and I thought, oh. Life goes on.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  Life goes on. And so when my younger brother died, I think I was quick to want to like, jump through this grieving process.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  To like make life go on.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it doesn't obviously work that way. And following my, my brother's death, everyone I feel like was on high alert for me, like wondering how I was doing mentally. And it took time. I think I was just in that, like the depths of grief for so long. And then now I'm here. And like, why? You know, so constantly having to, to go through that and wonder.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  Why? As in, like, why am I still here? Why me? Or?

• 35:27Speaker 02

  A little bit of that. What's the purpose? Do I need to do something? Is there, you know, is there, is there something bigger? And I think that's why I have that fear also of like, one is, one is the, is the saying, the shoe gonna drop for me? You know, so.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  So what do you do for your own mental health? We've, we've talked a little bit about mental health and how important it is having lived through this trauma. Like, what do you do for you?

• 35:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, for the longest time, I didn't want to talk about it, right? And I think we all had this notion growing up, like, oh, if I, there's something wrong with me or some way I feel, everyone's gonna think I'm quote crazy, right? Yeah, broken. My gosh, I'm lucky. I'm really have the most amazing husband and my kids. So like, they helped me. And then obviously, yes, therapy is, is great as well.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  But I found it in other ways, like in community, it was, I started going to the Friendship Center for drumming. And it was like, oh, well, these are the things, because I noticed. And I have people ask me actually quite often, you know, like, what are things that you do? Like, I think they're hoping to find an answer for themselves to help their own mental health journey. And I'd just say like, remember the things that make you feel good. When you're in a good headspace, what are the things you're doing at that point? And then it was in 2017, my, one of my cousins, she was working for the Ontario Federation for Friendship Centers.

• 37:09Speaker 02

  And so she said, you know, your parents' names were named in some research done. There's grassroots organizations that had been fighting for years, like years and years, asking for answers as to why is there such a high number of missing and murdered Indigenous people

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  across the country. She was like, would you consider testifying? And she had nothing to do with the inquiry process, but if that's one more story that can hold the government accountable.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  Then yes, of course.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Definitely add your voice.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I said yes, and I testified, I shared my, my story. And just the way that, for people that don't know, is the National Inquiry for Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  And this was in Canada?

• 37:56Speaker 02

  In Canada, yes, yeah. And a lot of people think that it was the government. Yes, while it was the funding from the government. It wasn't the government that called for this inquiry.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  Right, they weren't the ones saying like, hey, let's look into this, it sounds like a good idea to do that.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  No, of course, why would they want to look into the systems that they put into place that are

• 38:19Speaker 01

  Failing people over and over and over again.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. So it was grassroots organizations. And it was really through that process that I met other family members. And I kind of like set like a light bulb off, like, oh, my gosh. This isn't just the cards that I was dealt. These cards have been dealt to so many other Indigenous people, communities. And I thought, along this way, as I met some people that had so many similar stories to me, I was like, okay, I need to be involved in this somehow. And so then it was 2019, I get this call from the Commissioner if I would join the National Family Advisor Circle.

• 39:04Speaker 02

  And then it was there that I met other family members, survivors, in hearing their stories. And it was just.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  It shook me to my core and I thought, okay, more needs to be done and more needs to be said and these people need to be heard. Stories need to be heard. And so I continued on, on the National Inquiries Committee with the family members. And then we came to a closing where, you know, we gathered and we handed over the final report, all the research, the findings that had been brought together from these.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  The evidence.

• 39:46Speaker 02

  The evidence, exactly. And we presented it to the nation and it was there that I had that imposter syndrome kind of disappeared because I had seen it as for so long, like this, I'm telling you this story. This is what happened to my family. Yes, it happened to me, but it's, I'm sure it's a trauma response. You can take yourself out of it so easily. And I just kind of chalked it up to this is the way, this is the cards that were dealt. And it was there that I grabbed my husband's leg and I whispered to him, I said, I get it. And he said, you get what? I said, I'm the girl. And he just like, looked at me and

• 40:30Speaker 02

  I was like, and I just was overcome with emotion because I think that was kind of the first time I realized like, I'm the girl that, I shouldn't be here statistically.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  Right. You're, you're the statistic.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  I'm the statistic. Yeah. I'm, I'm the, the child that, you know, the systems are up against.

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• 43:09Speaker 02

  And so it was a few months later, a friend of mine, a dear friend, Dr. Robin Bourgeois, and she had decided to start the Decolonial Reading Circle at Rock University. And she had... She's fierce and she's survivor herself, but she had wanted to take action. And I just admired that so much about her. And so I joined the national, I remember emailing that, can I join this, this decolonial reading circle? And so we, you know, became friends and eventually had the honor of, of co-hosting with her and following her lead for this decolonial reading circle.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  But it was really, I feel that, and again, I'm realizing this for the first time. I think that was kind of that moment where I thought, okay, like I can do something. Like there's something I can do too. And again, it was Robin who introduced me to this incredible organization. It's Abbey House. It's a transitional home for Indigenous women in, in St. Catherine's. And I thought, okay, this is an organization I also want to get behind. And so it was that year I was turning 38 years old. And my dad was 37 when he passed. And my mom was, she was just shy of turning 37. My dad was shy of turning 38.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  And I wanted to start this fundraiser because I'd be the first person in my family to turn the age of 38. And I wanted this fundraiser to honor all of them. And yes, it was a crutch, absolutely, to pull me through the pain of survivor's guilt of turning 38.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:54Speaker 02

  Um, but I'm so, you know, those, I really realized how much the decolonial reading circle really showed me, okay, you can do something yourself as well. And I thought, okay, well, I'm going to do this fundraiser for Abbey House and also for my home community. So I thought, okay, we can raise $3,800 for both of these organizations. And then I almost didn't press enter because it dawned on me, well, no one listened. No one cared.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  Back then, and so why would they now?

• 45:24Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Yeah. It was probably one of the lowest moments in my life and literally a moment. Like you can just be. So blindsided by something, a thought come in and think like, no, you're not doing this.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  And just roots itself there. And especially, I have to imagine not just feeling unheard, but having documented proof that for hour upon hour, no one listened.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  What made you click yes? Like, what made you go for it?

• 45:54Speaker 02

  I don't know. Something came over me. We'll just say it was my ancestors. How about that?

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Close your eyes and press enter.

• 46:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I pressed enter and, boy, am I ever happy I did because within 24 hours, we raised $10,000.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I feel like, I think to date, we're at like $109,000.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, not including from there. Then I thought, okay, what else can I do?

• 46:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:22Speaker 02

  You know, so I've held, I hold a yearly fundraiser for Abbey House specifically in the area, in the region, and it's just been something that has, I think, also given me that the proof that people want to help, that you can do something also on your own. It doesn't have to be like something big. And so from there, you know, I just thought, okay, well, now what? Right? Like, it's always that now what can I do?

• 46:55Speaker 01

  I feel like that's such a sign that this is what you were meant to do.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  I love that you said that because you don't even know this, but my spirit name that I have that was gifted to me by an elder is White Thunder Woman. And he said that I'm here to make a lot of noise. And so that's just so special that you said that because, yeah, I don't know.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  You were making noise before you were even trying to, really.

• 47:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. And that was, that was it. Then I was like, I want to start a walk. We didn't have a walk for May 5th. We had one, we had gatherings for February 14th. And then we also honor in October as well, our Sisters in Spirit Day. So I thought, okay, well, let's have something May 5th to bring people together. And so we started a walk and, you know, we're hosting it again this year. And, yeah, it's just, it's really special. And so often we think like, okay, what can we do? And, you know, it's, it's hard. Because sometimes, yeah, I do. I want to throw my hands up in the air.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  It's overwhelming, the change that needs to happen in so many different sectors, but especially this one.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 48:05Speaker 01

  So that kind of leaves me with like a huge question for you. Where do you need us? What can we do?

• 48:12Speaker 02

  I will say this, and I've said this quite often since I heard this elder say this. Now that you've heard my story, what will you do with it now? Have the conversations with, not without, and bring change for, with Indigenous people, right? Because I think a lot of times those conversations are happening not

• 48:36Speaker 01

  Outside of.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And come out to gatherings. I always, always say come to like the May 5th walk, for instance. Find out where there are gatherings happening, where there is action taking place. Because that's where you're going to find out and getting involved. And it's not like that one off, that one time you're going to stand and you're going to march with us.

• 49:01Speaker 01

  It's ongoing support.

• 49:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. That is where it helps. And like, I think a lot of people think, oh, I wouldn't be welcome. No, you would be welcome. Because we know that the change, for me anyway, it has to happen together. There is power in numbers and that is where it will actually propel forward.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  Is if we're doing the work together, even making yourself aware of it. Okay, for instance, I testified for the inquiry, like I was a part of the National Family Advisor Circle. And now I have the honor of being a part of a committee for missing and murdered Indigenous, uh, Métis specifically, people. And I just found out that since those like initial reports of research that were brought in for the inquiry, so let's say, I don't know the exact year, but let's say 2017.

• 49:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  Five thousand, that's, it's an estimated that there have been five thousand missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls, two spirited people in Canada.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  Since then?

• 50:11Speaker 02

  Since then, and I don't even know if it is 2017. I'm being gracious in saying 2017, or perhaps it was 2015 when like their first data was like ended before the inquiry. But let's just say in and around five thousand. And when I, I kid you not, I couldn't even hide my face, my jaw dropped. And I feel as though I'm quite involved.

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Well, and I think, I hear that statistic, and I'm, unfortunately, I'm sure it's like this in Canada as well. In the US, that statistic is skewed because that's reported.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Yes. Oh, yeah, exactly. And that's also for our case as well.

• 50:50Speaker 01

  That's not the ones that aren't being reported, or aren't being classified correctly, or are being downplayed, so they don't fit that statistic. So the number is likely so much greater.

• 51:00Speaker 02

  That's why it's important, come out to the events, do the work with, not for, but with communities. I'm one story.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 51:11Speaker 02

  Please channel this energy into all the other people, or the people who are searching for missing family members right now, have no answers, or are being met, you know, with roadblocks from the justice system, like, help them. My justice is this being talked about, and for other people to bring action for other people who are missing, or are currently going through the court system for their murdered loved one.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  So, we talked a little bit about how your mom was very aware that her life was in danger, that at least her life was in danger, if not her family's. If there's a listener out there right now who, who's in that place in their mind, they feel threatened, they feel like their life is in danger, what, what can they do to make their voice heard and protect themselves?

• 52:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, first, if they have And if they have shared and they feel like they're not moving forward with the justice system specifically, like my mother's case, tell your friends, your family, advocate for yourself. And also, do not question, like, no matter what, always follow your gut with it. Because our instincts, we have them for a reason. We also, as women, are made to believe that, oh, we're making it up, we're making a big deal out of it. Oh, it's nothing. But I think a lot of people might also keep it to themselves in fear of, oh, am I making this a big deal? I don't want to burden anyone. No. Any of your loved ones will not feel

• 52:47Speaker 02

  burdened with these fears or concerns that you're having.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Fallon, I cannot thank you enough for being here and being willing to tell us in The Crime Junkies your story. Such an important one. Is there anything else you'd like to add at the tail end of this?

• 53:04Speaker 02

  I think for me, I just want people to understand that, yes, my story happened in the 90s. But I hope that they can also see the ripple effect of what this has on, obviously, my brother's lives, my life, like, not to, to take myself out of it as well. But then, how it affects these communities. And that you might see an Indigenous woman that is missing. But, like, we say it for a reason. They are someone's daughter. They are someone's, maybe, mother. They're an auntie.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  A sister, a cousin.

• 53:45Speaker 02

  A human. As much as you are giving ears to my story, listen to theirs as well. And remember that they are a part of a community. I will be the first to say it. I am privileged, and people will listen to me quite often. I'm white passing. And so I think for me, I want to acknowledge that, because then I also want people to shift and think, would they have maybe listened as Indigenous?

• 54:15Speaker 01

  If I looked different. If you weren't you? Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned a GoFundMe. Yes. We'll make sure to link that in the show notes, as well as resources for the US and Canada. So, listeners, be sure to check that out. And again, thank you so much for being here. I honestly, I just want to thank you because without platforms like this to share our stories, we do feel alone. So I appreciate it very much. You are definitely not alone.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkiepodcast.com. And you can follow us on Instagram, at Crime Junkie Podcast. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode.

• 55:45Ashley Flowers?

  Crime Junkie is an AudioChuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve?

• 55:55Speaker 01

  Growing up in a small town, I know how deeply a crime can shake a local community. And I know that what makes the headlines is rarely the full story. That's what Kylie Lowe explores on her show, Dark Down East. She digs into cases from Maine and New England using original reporting, archival records, and conversations with the people who knew them best. Each episode takes you inside the communities these stories shaped, and the families who never stop searching for answers. Listen to Dark Down East wherever you get your podcasts.

• 56:23Speaker 03

  When the nights grow longer, the shadows start to stir. And that can only mean one thing. Full Body Chills is back. This season, step inside original tales where every doorway leads somewhere darker, every stranger carries a secret, and nothing is ever quite what it seems. Each story takes you somewhere new, but be careful. You never know what might follow you home. So gather round, listen close, and stream Full Body Chills wherever you get your podcasts.