#392 - CIA Scientist Deathbed Confession: NEW Files Expose Alien Contact | Andy Puharich

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Andy Puharich is the son of Andrija Puharich, a CIA funded physician, inventor, and researcher best known for his work in parapsychology and fringe science. Puharich also conducted experiments on extrasensory perception (ESP) and claimed to explore communication with non-human intelligences. Greg Mallozzi is a filmmaker who produced & directed a new movie about Puharich called 'Mind Traveler'. SPONSORS https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Andrija Puharich's early psychic research 02:30 - When Puharich discovered Uri Geller 06:08 - Itzhack Bentov's theory of consciousness 11:06 - Evidence Uri Geller's abilities are real 15:40 - Telekinesis & spoon-bending 19:45 - When Andy learned the truth about Andrija Puharich 21:50 - Andy's UFO encounter 25:49 - The intelligence agencies that funded Puharich 32:50 - The entity known as "The Nine" 42:12 - Saucers, Spooks & Kooks 48:33 - Reports of teleportation 57:09 - When the CIA tried to recruit Puharich 58:48 - Puharich's work on ELF (extremely low frequency) 01:05:45 - The sacred mushroom & psychedelic experiments 01:14:58 - Andrija Puharich's final documents 01:21:42 - Suspicious details about Puharich's death 01:35:30 - The Space Kids program 01:43:15 - Nikola Tesla and free energy research 01:52:09 - Puharich's Pyramid research & copper's special properties 01:59:06 - Faraday cage experiments 02:04:56 - Contacting Puharich's Space Kids 02:15:33 - Myth behind the Montauk Project 02:18:05 - Evidence in the Telepathy Tapes 02:25:44 - Ayahuasca & DMT Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy? You might be dehydrated. Whether it's hot yoga, over 100 degree weather, or too much sun. Gator Light, with a specialized blend of five electrolytes, was scientifically designed to help move fluids into the body faster for rapid rehydration. Shop now at retailers nationwide. Gator Light: Hydrates Faster Than Water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 1:07Danny Jones?

  Andy, pleasure to meet you. Greg, good to see you again.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  Great to see you.

• 1:10Danny Jones?

  Your documentary is incredible. I just watched it for the second time this morning.

• 1:13Speaker 03

  Thanks.

• 1:14Danny Jones?

  Can you guys give us, or the people that are listening who may not know, a high-level view of who your father was? Andrea Puharich?

• 1:24Speaker 04

  He should do that. He's actually more of an expert on my father than I am because he's done so much research.

• 1:30Speaker 03

  He was, well, you know, he was a scientist first and foremost. He was a medical doctor. He went to Northwestern Medical School, had a medical degree. But he started researching psychic phenomena very early on in the mid-40s. Because really, the Northwestern, when he was going to Northwestern, that was 46, 47, 48. And he was interested in that all the way back then. But he was just very early on interested in psychic phenomena, the brain. The possibilities of the human mind, what can, what can be done? And so I think he was just a pioneer of ESP, extrasensory perception research and was doing

• 2:10Speaker 03

  experiments in that realm far before other, other people were. And of course, his life and everything he did, he went on to do way more than just ESP research, but he started.

• 2:23Danny Jones?

  He was, he was working closely with Isak Bentov, right? He discovered Uri Geller. He was a part of the, the Stanford Research Institute, SRI.

• 2:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:33Danny Jones?

  Uh, he was connected to all these people, Hal Puthoff.

• 2:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. So he was very important and he had, kind of had his tentacles, yeah, and all that stuff. But I think what's interesting about him is that he was never really, I guess, famous, you, you could say, in the sense that people don't know, you know, like, or Puthoff and these other people are very known, they're, I mean, of course, they're still alive and they're out there and they're talking, but Puharich is very, like, under, underground, I guess you could say. I mean, of course, he became much more popular in the, in the seventies when his book on Uri Geller came out, but yeah, he kind of had his fingers in everything, but he was still very, like, in the, in the shadows, I guess you could say.

• 3:19Speaker 03

  He was involved in, like, all this stuff from the very, very beginning, but he's not very known, you know, he's not like a, like a household name by any means.

• 3:28Danny Jones?

  So, a, a curi-, out of curiosity, what was so significant about, like, why were all these guys spending so much time in Israel? Cause your, Uri Geller came from Israel and there was a moment where, in the film, where, um, your dad, Andre Puh-, Andrea?

• 3:45Speaker 04

  Andrea, yeah.

• 3:46Danny Jones?

  Andrea Puharich. He says he was leaving Israel and they took a bunch of his stuff?

• 3:51Speaker 04

  Right. Well, initially, I think my dad was doing research on many people and before Uri, he was researching this guy called Irego, who was a Brazilian healer, and...

• 4:05Speaker 04

  Arigo suddenly died, and which was terrible. And then the research stopped, and my dad was looking for a new research subject. Then he heard of this guy in Israel called Uri, Uri Geller. So, um, some say that the CIA sent him on a mission to go investigate. I've always thought that he just did it on his own curiosity. But he went out there and, um, you know, went to see one of Uri's shows. Uri was doing performances, you know, showing his mental capabilities. And, um, so he just went to a show. They got to meet. He did some experiments in a hotel, uh, set up some, you know, some simple experiments to see if, if Uri was genuine.

• 4:49Speaker 04

  And he found he was in those small, you know, little things he set up. And then, um, I think the story you're referring to is then he left and, and the Mossad got interested and they started following him or whatever, you know. So, but basically he discovered Uri and he took him back to the States to have him researched at Stanford University where, you know, under lab conditions, they did tests to see if he was genuine, which, you know.

• 5:22Danny Jones?

  Allegedly.

• 5:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, he was part of it.

• 5:24Danny Jones?

  He said something like, I've seen you do stuff that any magician could do, but we want to test this under like scientific conditions or something.

• 5:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly. I mean, you want to have it foolproof, you know.

• 5:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 5:36Speaker 04

  So there's no cheating with cameras and all kinds of monitoring and, uh, so, and that's basically when, you know, Uri's career, uh, started. And, um, unfortunately that is what Uri thought it was, was a career as a superstar is what he wanted to be.

• 5:57Danny Jones?

  Of course, my dad was more interested in the scientific aspect of it all.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 6:02Danny Jones?

  And.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  To your point, though, about that, why in Israel, I think, you know, Annie Jacobson, our mutual friend, she she brought up the idea that the Israelis were much more open to this sort of spiritual aspect of this type of research, whereas maybe in the here in the US, they weren't they weren't as open to that because, you know, Buharach at that time was very interested in getting into the nine, of course, and the channeling stuff. And I think someone like Bentoff, who is really like the Israeli equivalent of Buharach in a way.

• 6:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 6:39Speaker 03

  They were very similar. So I think he he found a more open world there to explore the stuff that he was really interested in, that Bentoff was interested in. Whereas here, people were just way more closed minded to that stuff when it came to the the channeling and the more, you know, far out aspects of that. So I think that and that Annie, you know, theorize that as well as that's maybe why he was going there all the time, just to like have fellow researchers who were more open minded.

• 7:07Danny Jones?

  And Bentoff was an Israeli citizen, right?

• 7:10Speaker 03

  Yes. And an intelligence asset.

• 7:13Danny Jones?

  Oh, of course.

• 7:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:14Danny Jones?

  Have you I mean, have you read his book, Stock in the Wild Pendulum? It is so complicated and hard to understand. I had to listen to it twice.

• 7:21Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 7:22Danny Jones?

  He the dude is just so smart. It's like the dude, he's clearly, he's like, he's seeing fractals. The guy is like seeing shit that like normal people can't see.

• 7:31Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 7:32Danny Jones?

  And the way he describes like human like resonance, like the resonance of the human heart and the human brain and like these higher levels of like the soul and like the higher consciousness and how we're all raisins in this bowl of jello. And like if one raisin is vibrating at a frequency, they're all eventually going to start vibrating in that frequency like.

• 7:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:57Danny Jones?

  Does he, is that a scientific approach he has? Uh, I guess, yeah, you could call it that. I mean, he had, like, in his book, he includes these diagrams and these examples of, of how like, everything in reality, this higher reality, is resonating down to like our base reality. And there are certain protocols you can use to kind of like expand your consciousness to, to more. Essentially, it's kind of like a, a more complex version of the, the whole brain filter hypothesis, right? Like, our senses are just filtering out all of the stuff that's out there, right? Just so we can survive and get through the day and procreate and survive.

• 8:38Danny Jones?

  But yeah, no, it's just super, it's super, it's super fascinating that, that he was working so closely with your dad and with Uri Geller and all these guys. And then mysteriously, in like the seventies, I think he died in a plane crash, right?

• 8:52Speaker 03

  Seventy-nine. Yeah. Well, what's interesting, backing up, and this is something I discovered during the whole process of the film, like Puharich, there's this big question mark of, why did Geller come to the United States? Because as you said, and as your dad said, there was some organization, like a parapsychology organization, that sort of got him, got him a ticket and he went just to investigate Uri. Uri says he's positive that the CIA sent Puharich. But in fact, I'm pretty sure it was Bentoff who originally tipped off Puharich to, to Geller. Because in the archives, there's photographs of very early

• 9:33Speaker 03

  experiments with Geller where they're clearly in Bentoff's living room.

• 9:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 9:38Speaker 03

  Because he, it's Bentoff, it's, it's, uh, Puharich, Geller and Bentoff. They're doing experiments. There's Geller at a table with like a big black sheet over his eyes and some weird, um, I don't know, monitor device or something. So this was really early on and You're saying this is before Uri came to the States? Yes, yeah, yeah. And I think at one point, Buharach in a journal or something indicates that Bentoff is the one who said, hey, there's this guy here, you gotta come see him. And that was the original connection. But Bentoff is very known Israeli intelligence, like very Even back then?

• 10:17Speaker 03

  Yes. But even before, because this was 72, I think these pictures are from. But he was involved in this group of Israeli scientists who were very, very connected to intelligence in like the 60s, like the mid 60s or something. There's an interesting book that Bentoff's daughter wrote about him, and it gets into all of this. Really? But he was like extremely, and what's interesting to me is later on in Buharach's life, in the 90s, when he was, you know, older, he was kind of talking trash about Bentoff and he was some conference and somebody in the audience asked him about his connection to Bentoff and he was kind of like laughed it off and

• 11:00Speaker 03

  and made some sort of joke about how he was insignificant or something. So I don't know if there was some weird that something happened between them, but no, he was super connected, that guy Bentoff, for sure. That is strange. Yeah, yeah. I wonder why that was? I don't know. I don't know. Same field of interest. Yeah. But there's a tape too that that we have of Buharach at Bentoff's apartment in Tel Aviv. Audio tape? Yeah, and they were just kind of sitting, talking like we are, and they just had a cassette and they were just talking about, like you said, all this stuff in his book, things like this, but they were mostly talking about Geller and how they could sort of utilize his

• 11:44Speaker 03

  talents and what he, what could be possible and, you know, all this stuff about could his mind trigger the the root of a seed to grow and these sorts of things. But it gets back to your point. I mean, these guys were clearly super intelligent. They're not just these, you know, wacko guys sitting around talking about Geller. Like they were really like high.

• 12:06Danny Jones?

  Are you convinced that he can really bend spoons and it wasn't magic? Like, are you convinced like telekinesis is like a real thing? Like he, there's some real thing happening there where he can look at a spoon and, and rub it, rub the air around it and make the thing bend like is that? Are you guys both convinced about this?

• 12:25Speaker 04

  It's a very good question.

• 12:28Speaker 04

  Because I'm not totally convinced.

• 12:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:31Speaker 04

  I know it exists. I do think it exists. The interesting thing is there was this one point where Uri was doing a show in England. It's very famous. And he asked people, you know, on television, he asked people at home to pick up spoons and, you know, see if they could bend them as well. And, and the telephones at the BBC exploded because it was all these, and especially young kids who were suddenly doing this. And, and that was so interesting because they were just being triggered by Uri. And hey, listen, I'm sure Uri was able to, you know, to do it at some point in his life. I'm pretty sure he was.

• 13:13Speaker 04

  Not sure if he, if he kept that power, you know, and I think maybe there was some trickery involved later on.

• 13:23Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 13:24Speaker 04

  That's my belief.

• 13:24Danny Jones?

  Didn't you say you met with him?

• 13:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:26Danny Jones?

  Not that long ago?

• 13:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, my, to add to your point, there was this same show in, in England in the mid seventies. And I, I think you know about this. One of the things he did apparently was inside a wristwatch. He claimed that the, you know, minute hand was going to bend. And it, and it did. And this guy had a wristwatch on and they clearly hold it like right up to the camera, right? Inside the watch and the minute hand is like, you can find this. I think it's on YouTube is bent. So it's things like that, that I mean, that's such an intricate.

• 14:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 14:01Speaker 03

  Trick to like pre. Do, you know, and even back then in the seventies with live TV like they clearly didn't stop. I mean, it's a whole, you know, running show. So that was really strange. I don't know how you would. Yeah. You would do that.

• 14:16Danny Jones?

  There's mentalists out there like Oz Perlman that can do crazy shit like that. Like you saw, he went on, on Joe Rogan's podcast, like guessed his PIN number on his credit card. You see Joe was freaking out like, yeah, no idea what was going on.

• 14:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 14:28Danny Jones?

  There's some crazy shit you can pull off with magic and, and he like, guys like that, those mentalist people, they tell you like, this is all like, this is, this is not magic. Like we have these crazy tricks where we can do this stuff.

• 14:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:40Speaker 04

  Right. Everything is possible. Everything's been done by magicians.

• 14:43Danny Jones?

  Right. Exactly.

• 14:45Speaker 04

  There's always, it's, you know, it's really hard.

• 14:47Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 14:48Speaker 04

  And, you know, we were talking about this earlier when we were there, we did this interview with Uri and at the end, he did a spoon bend session where we were out in a parking lot. And the thing about it is Uri would always, you know, if he wanted to go bend a spoon, he would create a whole bunch of distraction. You know, he would walk away and he would, you know, be distracting people and then he would bend the spoon. And I was always a little bit suspicious about that.

• 15:17Speaker 03

  Oh yeah. Going like, look, see, that's the apartment I grew up in as a kid and that window, I used to look out that window and, you know.

• 15:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, but then, but then he walks away and he's like somewhere behind a car and he's doing it.

• 15:30Danny Jones?

  What?

• 15:31Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, you know.

• 15:32Danny Jones?

  You didn't call him out on that?

• 15:33Speaker 04

  I didn't.

• 15:34Danny Jones?

  Like, what the fuck are you doing, Uri? Just bend the spoon, would you?

• 15:38Speaker 03

  Well, to answer your question, yes, he, he did do it. And my thought is I just simply didn't.

• 15:43Danny Jones?

  After he walked behind a car?

• 15:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, I don't recall that exactly.

• 15:47Speaker 04

  But they had a camera right on.

• 15:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, we were filming him the whole time.

• 15:49Danny Jones?

  Okay, okay.

• 15:51Speaker 03

  But I don't know how he did it. That's all I can say. Was it a trick? Perhaps. But he did do the classic thing where he holds it, he rubs it like this and he kind of starts bending. I don't, I can't say, do I believe it? Not a hundred percent.

• 16:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, true thought, Danny.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  I can't say.

• 16:06Danny Jones?

  It's bullshit. Yeah? Yeah. If you enjoy watching our show on Spotify or YouTube and you want to be more involved, I encourage you to please come check out our Patreon community. Not only does our Patreon community get every episode you see on YouTube, early, fully uncensored and ad-free, but we're also doing Patreon exclusive episodes, as well as live Q and As, and you can get your personal questions answered by our guests every single week. For me, being able to collaborate and communicate back and forth with our Patreon community every week has been huge. And this is my way of saying thank you for the cost of a cup of coffee a month. Now, back to the show. I, I, I keep going back and forth. I, I, like, I'm kind of like you. I think that, I think that this stuff's real. Like, I think the telepathy stuff's real. I think

• 16:48Danny Jones?

  the remote viewing stuff is real. Um, I, I, I believe in extrasensory perception. But I think there's a lot of fucking fuckery that's going on with people, especially, especially people that are becoming like very famous, getting a lot of attention for it, selling books, that kind of thing. That's where I start to get skeptical.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, the other thing I'll say about the, the telekinesis is you've probably seen when some people do it, like, the tips of the fork will be like twirl, like, sort of twirled up, almost like a circle. Have you seen this? That is, I mean, I don't know how you do that by just kind of like bending it. Cause even this woman, one of the space kids in the film, she, of course, you know, didn't do it in front of, of me, but she had this bag of cutlery she claims that she bent and, you know, the, the, the tips of them are all wound up. I mean, that's really, that's strange. I don't, I can't, I don't know how you would do that. So.

• 17:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah, that reminds me. We had Dean Radin. We, we were talking to him the other day, and he was telling us a story of a spoon that he was able to bend using these tricks. And who did it? Do you remember who he said he learned that from?

• 18:04Speaker 03

  Uh, no.

• 18:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  Neither do I. I thought he was talking to Isaac.

• 18:10Danny Jones?

  Maybe he would. No, I don't think it was Esau. I forgot. It might have been Uri. But he was, Dean Radin's a guy who's been studying this stuff forever. He's like a,

• 18:21Danny Jones?

  did a bunch of stuff within like the telekinesis, parapsychology world during the Cold War, and he still does it today, scientist. And um,

• 18:31Danny Jones?

  he said like using these protocols, he was able to bend a spoon. He, I mean, he seemed very genuine when I was talking to him. He said he kept the spoon. He says he still has it. It's like a real steel spoon or whatever, stainless steel spoon and, and uh, like, there's no way you would have been able to bend it without a ton of force.

• 18:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know.

• 18:50Speaker 04

  Did he say how he did it? Was it like a chemical? Was it pre, pre-worked on or?

• 18:55Danny Jones?

  No, he said he did it genuinely through these telekinetic powers. Like he said that he was like, just like meditating and like, was like touching it and everyone was able to bend it with this protocol. And that was the only time he was able to do it. He said he's also tried it like hundreds of times and not been able to do it. He's like, there was one time he was able to do it and he kept that spoon from when he did it.

• 19:15Speaker 03

  I mean, it is hard for anyone. If you just get a stainless steel spoon. I mean, it's, it's pretty difficult to bend it like that.

• 19:21Speaker 04

  Thing is, and I'm sure you, you agree with me. I mean, I do believe also in the, in the power of the mind is incredible, is an incredible force. The mind can do so many things.

• 19:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 19:33Speaker 04

  And, and this might be one of them.

• 19:36Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:36Speaker 04

  I don't know if people can repeat it like Uri Geller did all the time. So I think that, you know, if you want to be on a TV show or you have to perform.

• 19:46Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 19:46Speaker 04

  You're going to.

• 19:47Danny Jones?

  Sure. And this stuff like, I, I imagine this stuff probably, you're probably not able to access this stuff 24/7, even if you can do it. Like if you have some incredible ability to tune your mind to like another dimension where you can move, bend spoons and read people's minds. Like you're not gonna, I can't imagine this like just comes to you on like whenever you want to call it. Like I'm sure when you're on stage. In front of people and like you're getting paid to demonstrate stuff like you can't rely on the muse tapping into you every single time. You gotta figure out a way to like force it. So that doesn't mean that it's all bullshit. It just means that like, look, if you're make turning this into a business.

• 20:30Danny Jones?

  And you can't rely on it all the time, you have to figure out a way to fake it sometimes.

• 20:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, definitely.

• 20:35Danny Jones?

  So.

• 20:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's the way I feel too.

• 20:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 20:38Speaker 04

  A lot, and this goes for a lot of people that do.

• 20:42Danny Jones?

  So I wanted to ask you, um, how did you first discover what your dad was doing?

• 20:50Speaker 04

  Well, um. The first time he told me about it was in the seventy five again, not ninety five. And he told me he met this guy, he came to visit us in Eindhoven in the Netherlands. And he told us what he was working on and, and, you know, he said he met this guy who was able to bend metal with his mind and do all these other things. That was the first time he told me about it and then, you know, later on I went to the States and of course. Uri was actually living in our house at the time.

• 21:20Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 21:21Speaker 04

  Yeah. I used to play basketball with him a lot. But I was, you know, I was fifteen years old and I was still trying to figure out what the hell all of this was. And I wasn't very easy believer. So, you know, it took me a long time before I could actually kind of.

• 21:40Danny Jones?

  Even when you were fifteen, you knew you were skeptical of this stuff.

• 21:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know, my dad was my hero, so I kind of was inclined to believe the things he told me. But I've always been very skeptical and I've always, you know, tried to. You know, I need proof myself, I have to see it myself.

• 21:59Danny Jones?

  At what point did you realize like how?

• 22:05Danny Jones?

  How like big this whole operation was that your dad was a part of?

• 22:10Speaker 04

  I think it kinda hit me when there's this book called Briefing for the Landing on Planet Earth. And this describes the work my dad did later with John Whitmore and Phyllis Schlemmer with an entity called the Nine, and Phyllis channeled this. And they'd been doing that for a long time and a book was published, this Briefings book. And I read that book and that really hit me. Then I really started to grasp the idea of, you know, there being extraterrestrial entities that my dad was contacting. And then I became really, really interested in it and I started.

• 22:49Speaker 04

  But I have to be honest, it was in, only in eighty-five when I had a very serious

• 22:59Speaker 04

  UFO encounter myself, that I was totally convinced and all the doubt left me.

• 23:05Danny Jones?

  What was that encounter?

• 23:07Speaker 04

  It's an interesting story. My dad was living in Devotion, North Carolina at the time. And a big house owned by the Reynolds Tobacco family. They let him stay there. It was a big house. He had a lot of people visiting. And I was there for the summer. My sister was there. There was a whole bunch of other people. And there was two mediums that were also there. And they both had the same prediction that there was going to be a UFO landing at the house on a certain date. So it was kinda funny because I, the day before it was supposed to happen, my cousin and I took up a video camera and we recorded everyone asking them, you know, how is it going to affect you?

• 23:52Speaker 04

  Do you think it's real and this and that? And we were, we watched that movie that evening. And it was, it turned out funny. We were all laughing about it. A bunch of us went out to the, on the, to the porch, just, you know, to sit outside and talk about it more. And I remember very well, I was sitting with my back towards, towards the outside. And suddenly my cousin goes, "Oh my God." So we turned around and there was this huge area of lights. That moved across the sky really slowly, trailing the light behind him. And that was obviously not from this world. That was obviously, you know, and it had been predicted

• 24:33Speaker 04

  that it was going to happen the next day, but later on we figured out it was like almost at midnight.

• 24:41Speaker 04

  And that that moment, I I was able to drop all my doubt, you know, that was a very, very important moment in my life. So it just looked like a a trail of lights? Well, what I saw is like there was a whole bunch of different colored lights, like I didn't see a shape, but I just saw like a shape of lights. An interesting thing was that, you know, when something flashes by really fast and it leaves a trail behind, trail of lights, just because, you know, the the way physics works. But this thing was going really slowly and incredibly silent. It was never sounded at all. How close would you say it was?

• 25:24Speaker 04

  Um, let's say about a hundred yards away. Oh, wow. Over the treetops. It lasted about, I don't know, maybe a minute. And what was the shape of the lights? Like, what shape did it form? The form was kind of kind of sphere. And it wasn't like a UFO shape, if that's what you're asking. I just saw this, you know, a whole bunch of lights moving across the sky, leaving this trail. And, um, yeah, pretty interesting. And it lasted only a minute? Yeah. And where did it just zoomed off or what? No, it didn't zoom off and it just disappeared behind the. Just faded away? Just faded away. Okay.

• 26:04Speaker 04

  Yeah. Good question, actually, because I can't really remember how it how it how it faded away. So, yeah, then everyone that was there, um, witnessed it, you know, all we could go was, oh, my God, oh, my God, we're all hugging each other. And if you have an experience like that, I can tell you, then you suddenly start to realize, okay, okay, so all of this stuff must be real. My dad wasn't even there. He was sleeping. And he goes, oh, yeah, I've seen so many of those. Really? Yeah, yeah. It was really weird.

• 26:40Speaker 04

  So to answer your question, that's the moment in my life when I really realized, oh my God, you know, what my dad's doing is really has some validity to it.

• 26:50Danny Jones?

  And when did you realize all of the intelligence and military ties into all this stuff?

• 26:58Speaker 04

  I never really did.

• 26:59Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 27:00Speaker 04

  No.

• 27:02Danny Jones?

  You guys, your dad never talked to you about that stuff?

• 27:04Speaker 04

  Well, I was talking to Greg about that earlier. My dad, you know, you saw, you've seen the film, right? And there's one point where his house was burned down.

• 27:15Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 27:16Speaker 04

  And he always, he was convinced it was the CIA trying to stop him of publishing a certain manuscript and putting out information. They had warned him not to do it.

• 27:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 27:28Speaker 04

  Then his house was burned down. And then after that, he became incredibly paranoid. And he kept saying that the CIA was, you know, after him and, and he hated the CIA. I mean, he was literally, he hated them and, and, and was totally against them. That's, that's the picture that formed in my mind. I mean, later on, people started putting pieces of the puzzle together and apparently, I mean, I know he worked for the government in his earlier years because he had to go to the military and obviously they paid for a lot of his research because they were very interested in what he was doing.

• 28:07Speaker 04

  And when he was in the military, he was assigned to investigate the paranormal. And so he had an involvement with the government, but if he was ever really on their payroll, he never mentioned it to me. All I know is he hated those guys. So that, but that's my experience, you know? Greg really.

• 28:34Speaker 04

  You know, dove deep into the into all the material and came up with a with another conclusion. So.

• 28:42Speaker 03

  So who so who was paying him? Well, multiple different agencies, at least in the early years. But that's what was interesting about doing this film is like I would discover things that Andy, you know, wouldn't never really knew. Yeah, right. Like, for instance, something that I sort of collaborated on with Annie Jacobson is that she had mentioned that he had gotten this large grant from the Atomic Energy Commission. Really? In the late 60s. Yeah. So what happened was I, of course, was like, OK, what happened? Was this real? I did a lot of digging and I came across the documents that, yes, proved

• 29:22Speaker 03

  this, that they went to his lab in the late 60s, Intelletron. He had a laboratory in New York where they're doing a lot of biomedical research.

• 29:33Speaker 04

  Was that the Intelletron?

• 29:34Speaker 03

  Intelletron.

• 29:35Speaker 04

  Wasn't that the Roundtable Foundation Day?

• 29:37Speaker 03

  No, this was this was late 668, 67. And there's all these documents of this guy, Paul Henshaw, who worked for the Atomic Energy Commission, who was involved in the Manhattan Project, literally. And he was the head of biological research or something for the Atomic Energy Commission. They went to his laboratory to witness an experiment he was doing with the TD 100, which is this hearing device that Buhrich invented, and you see it in the film, where these deaf patients were able to hear, able to using tones that would somehow connect through the facial nerves, they would hear, be able to to interpret

• 30:18Speaker 03

  signals and voices. And he invented this machine that did that. And he demonstrated this for the Atomic Energy Commission. And they concluded that the technology was definitely real and definitely worked how he said. And he got this, I think, $300,000 grant.

• 30:38Speaker 03

  From the Atomic Energy Commission? Which at that time was over maybe close to $1 million. And that was in 68.

• 30:46Danny Jones?

  And yeah, there was the story of somebody who had like a like metal teeth and they were picking up radio signals or something.

• 30:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:53Danny Jones?

  They thought they were hearing voices and it was just like the radio, local radio antenna.

• 30:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was, that was earlier at the round table in the 50s.

• 30:59Speaker 04

  That's how he started the Intelecton company.

• 31:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:02Speaker 04

  Cause he was working with this dentist and he figured, oh, wait a while this guy's receiving, you know, he's got this filling which acts as an antenna. And then he, he came up with this device that you'd actually implant in a tooth with a transmitter on your wrist or whatever that would transmit. And so deaf people were able to hear through this nerve.

• 31:22Speaker 05

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body with a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 31:51Speaker 06

  Hello, I'm Chris Richards, general manager at Saffron Volkswagen Richmond. I'm here to announce an exciting new program that I want you to listen to. Here's my friend Happy.

• 32:01Speaker 07

  Hi, I'm Happy Harry Turner, special finance manager at SaffronCredit.com. If you're in an open Chapter 13 bankruptcy, recently filed a Chapter 7, or you've been turned down because of credit challenges, don't give up. For nearly 30 years, I've helped people get reliable transportation when others said no. Visit SaffronCredit.com. Remember, I'm not happy unless you are.

• 32:20Speaker 04

  Wow. You think that's how we started?

• 32:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:25Speaker 04

  Working on the TD, the transdermal machine, right?

• 32:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, that started in the 50s and went in through the 60s.

• 32:30Speaker 04

  Right.

• 32:31Speaker 03

  But that's one example of, you know, who was giving him money. I mean, that's, that's a fact, Atomic Energy Commission. But what's always mysterious is like, we don't really know where it went, you know, or how far it went.

• 32:43Speaker 04

  Right.

• 32:44Speaker 03

  But we just know, hey, they gave him a significant amount of money. And what happened with that or how much it was advanced, we don't, we don't really know.

• 32:52Speaker 04

  Didn't they buy the whole project off of him? Cause I know that at some point. You know, we suddenly got a letter, I'm a millionaire. And but he had sold the Intelletron company. He'd gotten rid of it. So would that coincide with with that? You're saying it was a grant for him to do research?

• 33:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. It could. I mean, that again, it just goes back to the mystery of him where I even though the research I've done, I don't. I've heard that story, I think through you. And maybe your sister as well, that they had sold the company, but I don't really know, like, I never really found anything that would indicate that that is how it turned out.

• 33:30Danny Jones?

  You got a letter for he told you he became a millionaire?

• 33:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, I was living in the Netherlands. I think we got a letter and he said, oh, I'm now a millionaire or something.

• 33:39Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 33:40Speaker 04

  Something to make him look whatever, big. So but, you know, it's interesting, and this is going to come up a lot because Greg has done so much research on my dad. He's really, you know, went and found all these incredible documents and papers and tapes and videos. He knows a lot more about my dad than I do.

• 34:02Danny Jones?

  What out of all of the research and all the documents and all the tapes that you listened to, Greg, like, what to you sort of stood out the most or like, kind of like, blew your perception out of the water the most? Your pre like, were there any like, preconceptions you had that kind of like, like shocked you?

• 34:23Speaker 03

  I guess it was, it kind of goes back to this TD one hundred device. Because he creates this in the sixties, right? I think it was even like sixty five or six. It was pretty, pretty early. And again, what that does is it enables people to hear like tones and they can decipher tones which could have a message in it and so forth, and they can, they can hear it. So I think for me, there's a lot of these tapes, and we may have talked about this from the way later in the seventies, late seventies, these channeling sessions.

• 34:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 34:59Speaker 03

  Where they're communicating with the nine. And they're, they're, you know, usually a space kid is going into a trance meditative state and is receiving information from the nine, you know, and an alleged entity.

• 35:14Danny Jones?

  What are the nine?

• 35:17Danny Jones?

  We can't, we can't just gloss over that. We gotta tell people what the nine is.

• 35:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, the nine, this, this woman called, well, actually, this all started, it's kind of interesting. This all started really early on. When was it? When the doctor?

• 35:31Speaker 03

  50s, yeah, 53.

• 35:32Speaker 04

  Came into his lab?

• 35:34Speaker 03

  1953, yeah.

• 35:35Speaker 04

  Was it in the 50s? Really? That early? So this Indian guy walks into his lab and, I don't know the details, and takes my, my dad by his, I think, index finger, gives him a story of his life to convince my daddy that he's, you know, that there's something psychic about him or whatever. And then he starts channeling this entity that calls themselves the nine. How do they start off? We are M something?

• 36:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's all this weird symbology.

• 36:07Speaker 04

  And they say they're like the nine principles of nature, forces, something or other. And so later on, many years later, this woman Phyllis comes along and she, she suddenly starts channeling the same entity, the nine. And my dad really latched on to that.

• 36:26Danny Jones?

  How many years later was that?

• 36:29Speaker 03

  Well, technically, it was Uri, who, who?

• 36:33Speaker 04

  Did he? Did he initially? But he didn't, he channeled that entity called Spectra?

• 36:39Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 36:39Speaker 04

  It was Phyllis that, that, did, did he channel the, did?

• 36:43Speaker 03

  He claims to have. I don't know if he's, that's truthful, but he claims to have.

• 36:47Danny Jones?

  When you guys are talking, just try to, try to like talk into the mic.

• 36:49Speaker 03

  Oh, sorry. Yeah, so it was, it was like a decade later. It was seven, early 70s. The first one was 53. So what, for whatever reason, all that time passed and then they popped back up, you know, to almost two decades later.

• 37:04Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 37:05Speaker 03

  So that's.

• 37:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, and Phyllis was a very powerful channel. And the information that she channeled was also, was very interesting. And she talked about Earth's history and the involvement of alien civilizations. And my dad actually set up a whole, like a company, right, called the Lab Nine, which was, you know, centered around her communications. And they did all these trips. And I think it's in the film, right, that they went out to meditate a lot and, yeah.

• 37:38Speaker 03

  And uh.

• 37:38Danny Jones?

  So what were the nine?

• 37:40Speaker 03

  So it's complex, but apparently they're they're they're a group of entities that are basically overseeing the universe, I guess is the simplest way to say.

• 37:54Danny Jones?

  So they're aliens?

• 37:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, whatever. Aliens are like divine spirits?

• 37:58Speaker 03

  More like divine spirits.

• 37:59Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 38:00Speaker 03

  Cause they've never really said, you know, we look like this or we're shaped like this.

• 38:04Danny Jones?

  They had a spokesman called Tom. They never said we're from Zeta Reticuli.

• 38:07Speaker 03

  No, no, no. They're more of like, yeah, and and just an intelligence that can be contacted through the this method of trance. And that they're out there, they're overseeing not just Earth, but the universe. They're overseeing what happens with the planet because it's all part of a cosmic plan and they're making sure things don't happen. And that that kind of thing, but it's a group of intelligences is the best way, I guess you could describe it. And they communicate through certain people, usually through psychic people. And for whatever reason, there's only like a few that they've come through.

• 38:49Speaker 03

  It's this guy, Dr. Vinah, the Indian guy in the 50s, and then apparently Uri Geller in the 70s. And then this woman Phyllis in the 70s as well. So it's strange. I don't know if there's some protocol that brings them through with certain people or some people can bring them through, others can't. But apparently like just through Puharich, he was able to get people to connect with with the nine. And it's very, uh, I mean, it's a total rabbit hole, you know, like Peter Lavenda.

• 39:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 39:22Speaker 03

  A lot about the nine and there's tons of conspiracy stuff about it. And but I think the big question obviously is like.

• 39:29Danny Jones?

  What is the conspiracy? No good. Sorry. I mean, in real. What's the question?

• 39:33Speaker 03

  Well, the conspiracy is just the when they formed, right? So in the 50s, you know, Puharich has this psychic lab. He's doing a lot of psychic research and at the time he was working or getting funding from the military, from the army. And again, we all we know this as a fact, there's documents. And this goes back to the CIA thing too, because he was corresponding with the CIA back then too. I mean, there's literally letters from Alan Dulles's assistant going back and forth through Puharich. You know, it was nice to see you in Washington, make sure you. Make sure you touch base when you're here, you know, that kind of stuff.

• 40:11Speaker 03

  So the conspiracy is basically like, why in a, in a research lab being financed by multiple intelligence agencies is all of a sudden a psychic making contact with this

• 40:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 40:27Speaker 03

  of intelligent beings and why are there all these very, very elite, wealthy, high society people involved and why are they there and why are they part of it? Is there some bigger plan? Is there some bigger idea here? Is this psychological warfare? Is this real? So it all goes back to that origin point in the 50s where they first came through this Indian psychic. But, you know, I can see why people would think the kind of conspiracy angle to it, but at the same time,

• 41:03Danny Jones?

  Totally.

• 41:04Speaker 03

  we just don't know. And that's what's frustrating about, you know, making the film and spending so much time like to the, as we sit here today, like I still can't really definitively say, oh, this is, this is what happened. Like we, it's a huge rabbit hole, you know? And I don't know. There's this big conspiracy that, you know, the nine of these people in politics through the years have been involved. And of course there's the Gene Roddenberry connection where he came to a bunch of the sessions and was channeling the nine. So people think that they're

• 41:39Danny Jones?

  Who's that?

• 41:39Speaker 03

  He's the creator of Star Trek. The guy created Star Trek.

• 41:43Danny Jones?

  Oh my God.

• 41:45Speaker 03

  I actually put out a video about this.

• 41:47Danny Jones?

  We saw, somebody showed us the most fucked up video I've ever seen the other day of the creator of Star Trek.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:54Danny Jones?

  Talking about like his daughters and shit. You see that?

• 41:57Speaker 03

  Unfortunately, yeah. Yeah. So he was, um,

• 42:02Speaker 03

  Involved, he went up to the Poo Arch's house and sat in on all these channeling sessions. So the point is, there's this conspiracy that the nine.

• 42:09Danny Jones?

  Roddenberry did?

• 42:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, we have the tape of it. I put out, I made a little video on it.

• 42:14Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 42:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, Cosmic Clock is a new page I started where I'm trying to put out some little tidbits of things we haven't used in the film, but he.

• 42:23Danny Jones?

  What's the conspiracy?

• 42:25Speaker 03

  Well, it's just this idea that because some, like the military, creator of Star Trek, all these people are trying to use the nine to usher in some new, you know, new world order, a new agenda, and the nine are orchestrating everything. But, I mean, we've seen, of course, there's Deep Space Nine, and you can say, okay, he was influenced by the nine, and he called it Deep Space Nine, but there's no real, like, evidence that the nine actually, like, did anything, or really shaped anything, or really changed anything. And what's odd to me is the fact that, you know, no, why is no one now channeling the nine? Where'd they go?

• 43:09Danny Jones?

  We have a new version of the nine now.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:12Danny Jones?

  I mean, that whole story, like, it parallels perfectly with modern stories of, like, UFO abductees and stuff. Well, not modern, but like, if you look at, you know, for example, Whitley Strieber, you know, a guy who's like, you know, his stories are insane, prolific science fiction writer, connected to all these spooks, and like, his family was in the military, he was a part of like, some crazy childhood experiments in the army in Texas, and you have guys like Chris Bledsoe, who, you know, from North Carolina, has these crazy sightings, and all of a sudden, he's getting visited by NASA, and like, all these spooks, and these intelligence people that are like, tied into, you know, like, who knows how much misinformation stuff could be wrapped up and all that, and, you know, and then you have like.

• 43:56Danny Jones?

  Leg the groundwork for all of this. You have the whole Paul Benowitz story. I don't know if you're familiar with that one.

• 44:00Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:01Danny Jones?

  Where like he was literally drove into like an insane asylum.

• 44:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:07Danny Jones?

  You know, by, by, um, Richard Doty, I think his name was, this disinformation guy.

• 44:13Speaker 03

  There's a good film that just came out about all that called Saucers, Spooks and Kooks.

• 44:18Danny Jones?

  What?

• 44:19Speaker 03

  Oh, you gotta see it. I'll plug that right now.

• 44:21Danny Jones?

  What a great title.

• 44:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's, uh, Adam Go Rightly. He's an author.

• 44:26Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 44:26Speaker 03

  He's written a great book. He wrote a book about Kerry Thornley, that guy who was friends with, uh, Oswald and all JFK's ass. He's like a genius, this guy. He's an author.

• 44:36Danny Jones?

  Pull this up, bro. I wanna see this. This is out?

• 44:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. He wrote a book called Saucers, Spooks and Kooks, which is like a very detailed history of the whole just UFO disinformation world. When it started, why it started. It's a great doc. They based it off his writing, his book.

• 44:53Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 44:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's out now. You can, you can find it, but, um, here we go. Yeah. There's a trailer.

• 44:59Danny Jones?

  Let's watch it. We might have to, they might copyright us.

• 45:01Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 45:02Danny Jones?

  Again, if you want to throw the headphones on, you can hear it.

• 45:04Speaker 03

  I thought you may have heard of this.

• 45:06Danny Jones?

  No, I have not. Go ahead and hit it, Steveo.

• 45:12Speaker 03

  Lizard.

• 45:13Speaker 08

  Roswell.

• 45:15Speaker 09

  Alien bodies, multiple crashed alien spaceships, a government cover up.

• 45:19Speaker 08

  Don't say base.

• 45:20Speaker 10

  It didn't matter what base it was. It was all the battle of underground bases and the aliens are coming in and all this really out there fringe areas.

• 45:29Speaker 11

  This is such a crazy ass story. My God.

• 45:32Speaker 10

  Paul Benowitz was a scientist. He started noticing that there were lights doing strange things. These things lit up like balls of bright light and just took off. Came up, went south around the end of the mountains, gone.

• 45:49Speaker 08

  Who are they?

• 45:51Danny Jones?

  Who's this guy?

• 45:52Speaker 03

  That's Go Rightly.

• 45:54Speaker 11

  We don't know what else it could be. I'm going like, wow.

• 45:57Speaker 10

  They decided to just encourage him with the, with the outlandish ideas. One, because the only people that would listen to be crazy UFO people and foreign agents.

• 46:12Speaker 11

  We got Richard Doty, apparently purposely misleading Benowitz and for whatever purposes, which could be counterintelligence to confuse Russians.

• 46:24Speaker 12

  More, to me, he was completely sold on Benowitz. And Benowitz, at that point, had become the paranoid.

• 46:34Speaker 10

  Man, it's like, what a gut punch. Everybody in that room, including Stan Friedman, had basically been played by Bill. I guess these days it would be more like that New York Times article. It just comes out of nowhere and just bang, somebody's making an effort to push it through in the way that people accept the information.

• 46:52Speaker 13

  And how they're using UFOs to potentially cover for an intelligence, kind of gathering psychological warfare. And it's such a great freaking cover story.

• 47:04Speaker 14

  If someone like Paul Benowitz is already there, you just let them do the work.

• 47:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's fun. Yeah, no, that's the craziest thing about it too, man. And that's, that's the reason I'm more skeptical than ever about it. Because like, that's, that makes so much sense that, it makes more sense that they would have been trying to use Paul Benowitz as, because he was tied to MUFON and he was living in New Mexico, seeing these, these weird crafts flying above the Air Force Base. And then Paul Benowitz goes, hey, man, I think these are aliens. I think you're right about this. And then the NSA moves in across the street, starts beaming shit into his like apartment, telling him that there's some alien civilization that ran out of water and they're coming here. And now he's going and talking to MUFON because like, and the whole strategy, the high level strategy with the military was, give, pump this guy with a bunch of fake information

• 47:57Danny Jones?

  that leads him away from our serious military technology. And because we know the Soviets have infiltrated the UFO community in the United States, trying to get more information on our, on our military technology. So we're gonna like, you know, throw them off the path, them off the trail or whatever, and use this guy as like a conduit of disinfo. And that's, the story is, is old as the UFO story is, you know, that seems to be, the intelligence, the whole intelligence thing is like so intertwined and all of it. It's just like, it's almost like...

• 48:30Danny Jones?

  You are just gonna spin your wheels if you're gonna spend your time trying to figure out what this really is because it's just, you walk into it, it's a fucking house of mirrors.

• 48:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I think my takeaway, I mean, I'm a believer, or you know, I want to believe, of course, but I completely agree with everything you just said, but you know, at the same time, I just feel like there's just this idea that every single UFO sighting or situation ever, since the beginning of time, has just always been a cover for a military thing and.

• 49:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no, I don't, I don't think that's.

• 49:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm not saying you do, I just mean, I've, some people think that, and you know, then you got Andy, your story, I mean, I have no reason to disbelieve you, a lot of people, and my own mother, who's the most, you know, sane, level-headed person, she has a very weird story when she was younger, seeing something, so it's like, you know, I just feel like there's definitely that going on, I think.

• 49:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 49:28Speaker 03

  That's, that's obvious, I mean, it's like a true story, what happened to him, but.

• 49:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 49:32Speaker 03

  I think, and I guess a lot of other people think too, like, there's still craft of unknown origin out there.

• 49:40Danny Jones?

  What do you think? Yeah, I think that, I think it's, it's not binary, I think there's probably some shit out there that we have no idea, I, I think, I'm inclined to believe that we have stuff that's unexplainable, that defies physics, that we like siloed some sort of physics back in the 50s, some anti-gravity type stuff that the public's not aware of, I believe that, and I also believe that there's probably, I think like, the real aliens that are out there flying around, I think it's probably some sort of like, prehistoric human civilization that like survived through time, through cataclysms and stuff, that maybe lives under the water, and is able to like shield itself from us. What about us from the future? That, basically that, yeah. Right. Or, or from the future, right. Right.

• 50:26Danny Jones?

  Right, they, if, if they are that advanced, they could probably figure out how to manipulate spacetime somehow. Right.

• 50:31Speaker 03

  Yeah. I agree. And speaking of like the sort of funneling away advanced technologies of a crazy story, you probably remember it's not in the film or anything, but this story about Uri Geller apparently teleported from, so have you heard the stories in the news right now? This guy is like a FEMA director and he claimed that he teleported to a Waffle House?

• 50:55Speaker 04

  No.

• 50:56Danny Jones?

  That's incredible.

• 50:58Speaker 03

  Can you, can he bring that up, Steve?

• 51:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:00Speaker 03

  This has been all over the news. So this guy, he's some sort of top FEMA employee or director, someone in the Trump administration, high up guy. And I don't even know the full story, but apparently he's been out there claiming he teleported from his house into a Waffle House or something.

• 51:19Speaker 04

  I wish I could fucking do that, dude.

• 51:21Speaker 03

  And so, so it's very odd and he's, it's all over the news now, but the point is back in the seventies, Uri Geller claimed that he teleported from walking down the street in New York City to Puharich's house in Austin and came crashing through the, the screen door. Here, look.

• 51:38Danny Jones?

  The Guardian, "Top US FEMA Official Claims To Have Teleported To A Waffle House Before." "Teleporting is no fun," Greg Phillips picked to lead FEMA's Office of Response and Recovery, has said on a podcast. Put this guy on the list.

• 51:57Danny Jones?

  "A far-right conspiracy theorist turned hi-" Oh, he's a far-right conspiracy theorist now. "Turned high-ranking official at the US Federal Emergency Management Agency, FEMA, claims to have once teleported to a Waffle House." Scroll down.

• 52:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is-

• 52:13Speaker 04

  What was he caught in a, in a Waffle House when it was-

• 52:16Danny Jones?

  On January, on a January 25 podcast appearance, Phillips claimed that his car was lifted up while he was driving and transported 40 miles away into a ditch near a church. And in another instance, on the same episode, Phillips said that he was teleported 50 miles away to a Waffle House in Rome, Georgia. CNN detailed the deep dive into Phillips' past public statements. Wow.

• 52:39Speaker 03

  So-

• 52:39Danny Jones?

  So he says this was a long time ago or something?

• 52:42Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 52:43Danny Jones?

  Hang on, scroll down. Teleporting is no fun, he said. You know, you know it's happening, but you can't do anything about it. And so you just go and you just go with the ride. And wow, what an incredible adventure it all was.

• 52:59Speaker 03

  Well, what's crazy is that Geller, in his story, he says the same thing almost. He goes, you know, it's happening and you can't control it. And all of a sudden it, it happens.

• 53:09Speaker 04

  Geller says he was like walking down Fifth Avenue or whatever.

• 53:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:13Speaker 04

  And he suddenly felt like he was being pulled back. In the next moment, he was face down. There was a big hole in my dad's porch screen up high. So whatever.

• 53:26Speaker 03

  They filmed it too. There's like Super 8 video of him filming this screen porch that's all smashed in.

• 53:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, and then he smashed on the glass table. The glass table were shattered.

• 53:35Danny Jones?

  What?

• 53:36Speaker 04

  And Uwe was lying on the floor. Yeah, this is a weird story. And I mean, if you wanted to

• 53:42Danny Jones?

  It's on video.

• 53:43Speaker 04

  Throw something through. No, it's not.

• 53:44Speaker 03

  Just the aftermath.

• 53:45Danny Jones?

  Just the aftermath, yeah.

• 53:47Speaker 04

  If you want to throw something, you know, you need a helicopter or whatever to, to actually make that happen. So. And Uwe had a receipt in his hand because he had just bought something in some store with a timestamp on it. You know, 50 miles away and like minutes before. So it's a pretty credible story.

• 54:07Speaker 03

  Hmm. Wow. My theory is they're, they were experimenting with how to teleport a human being. I have no, no, I don't know. That's just my crazy theory. Or, you know.

• 54:22Danny Jones?

  Was, wait, he, so Puharich was there?

• 54:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:25Speaker 03

  Well, he was at his house.

• 54:26Speaker 04

  He was at his house and he heard this big, big slam. He thought that the furnace had exploded.

• 54:31Speaker 03

  So maybe, maybe they figured out a way to, to, to teleport, you know, a small object. And so they said, why don't we, why don't we try and see if this is possible with a human being? It's a crazy theory, I know. But, you know, Geller, I think at that time, in a way, was sort of like a guinea pig to a lot of this, these types of experiments, I think. So.

• 54:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's a weird thing, though.

• 54:56Speaker 03

  I have no proof of that at all.

• 54:57Danny Jones?

  One of the crazy things about this whole story is that if this is some like deep funded.

• 55:07Danny Jones?

  Research that the military or the government is doing, why make this guy such this like this celebrity figure? Like Powell put off said in your movie, I think, um, he said Geller was maybe like 5% of their research, but he was 95% of their publicity.

• 55:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think, I mean, it's just a theory, but I think it's maybe a distraction situation where here's this, again, I, I have no idea if this is really how it went down, but so Buhar publishes the book on Uri Geller in 74. He writes a whole book about how he met him,

• 55:52Speaker 03

  how he brought him to the United States, how all of a sudden he started channeling the nine, and he details this teleportation story and all these other crazy stories. If you recall, there's like a pen, one of their pens got teleported to a UFO and it came back and they have proof that it came back. So

• 56:11Speaker 04

  The tapes, don't forget about

• 56:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, the tapes where they would, they would record channeling sessions would disappear. So the only way that he could know what was said is he had to quickly transcribe the tape before the tape dematerialized and would disappear. This is all in this book that Buhar published. So you think here's a very intelligent doctor, scientist, potentially very military intelligence connected was all of a sudden putting out a book which would do nothing more than completely discredit him and make him look like a total nut.

• 56:45Speaker 04

  Which is what happened.

• 56:46Speaker 03

  Which is what happened.

• 56:46Speaker 04

  That was the end of his scientific career.

• 56:48Danny Jones?

  So then

• 56:49Speaker 04

  When he published the book. When he published the book, the whole scientific

• 56:52Speaker 03

  So then they can say, oh, of course, this guy's just a, did you read his book? He's crazy. He wrote all this crazy shit. Of course, he's, so then he can go on and do whatever he needs to do. So the general public says, oh, he's that guy who wrote that crazy book about the teleporting. And of course, we, how could we believe this guy? And he can go right on his way doing whatever experiments he wants to do. Just a theory. But, you know, I saw this old documentary about the KGB.

• 57:20Speaker 03

  And it was really interesting is there's this one section where they talked about a tactic they use is actually to purposely discredit people in that way, put out false articles, put out things that make them look like essentially they're, they're crazy. And so these people can kind of be seen like that publicly, but in the shadows, just continue what they're doing. So that was in like a very legitimate doc, doc on the KGB I saw. So I don't know, but it does make you question that, that book in, you know, why would this very credible, very smart, very, you know, put, just publish that. And it was a huge book. It was a bestseller. I mean, it was-

• 58:03Danny Jones?

  Or would they intentionally, they being like the spooks behind it all, would they intentionally plant fake seeds into these people's like Puharich's mind and tell them things, knowing that when they do eventually write a book or blow the whistle down the road, they're going to have these fake things built into the story that sounds so crazy. It's just going to make him sound like people are going to think he's a kook. Right? That's like, that's like my take on the whole Bob Lazar thing. I think that, you know, how he describes walking by a window and seeing like an alien and they showed him the documents that said it was from Zeta Reticuli.

• 58:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:39Danny Jones?

  I feel like those could have been like specifically planted things along the way that they intentionally brought him into contact with so that if he ever did come out and like spill the beans, that would be in the story. They would know where it came from and like people would think he's batshit crazy.

• 58:58Speaker 03

  I agree with that.

• 59:00Danny Jones?

  I think that's probably possible. That's probably one aspect of all of this stuff too.

• 59:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, something we were talking about that I wanted Andy to say is because there's this big- Conspiracy really about what we're saying like how connected was Puhar, who did he work for this and that? And you know, we don't really, I mean, we have some documents, we have the Atomic Energy Commission thing, but there was a story in, I guess, what, the eighties, late eighties or something? When these two individuals came to, came to your house and were sort of trying to recruit him, I guess you could say?

• 59:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, you know, that's the story my dad told me and I mean, I saw these guys show up and they had a heated conversation and my dad sent them away. My dad later on said those were CIA operatives that tried to get him to work for him.

• 59:54Danny Jones?

  When was this?

• 59:55Speaker 04

  Ah, the time he lived.

• 59:57Speaker 03

  Eighty-three, eighty-four or something? Yeah.

• 1:00:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, probably around that time.

• 1:00:01Speaker 03

  Or to.

• 1:00:02Speaker 04

  But to be really quite clear, guys, I mean, I'm not into the conspiracy stuff at all. I've always just, you know, thought like my dad was a curious scientist who's looking for, you know, answers to the paranormal, went to Israel by himself and, you know, met this guy and took him back to the States and what I don't, I'm not into the whole, everything's a set up plan and everything's, you know, set up to discredit him. I'm not in that league at all, I'm afraid. So, but you know, that's my take on it, which is, which is.

• 1:00:36Danny Jones?

  So, so who, so when, when was this visit though? With the guys that he said were intelligence officers?

• 1:00:42Speaker 03

  Well, I want to say it was like eighty-three or eighty-five, but from what I remember, at that time, Puhar, his dad was doing a lot of this ELF work.

• 1:00:53Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:00:54Speaker 03

  Extremely low frequency.

• 1:00:55Speaker 04

  Cause that's a whole different chapter.

• 1:00:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:57Speaker 04

  You know, my dad really went into the ELF stuff. That's the reason that his house was burnt down, because he wrote a manuscript called the magnifying transmitter.

• 1:01:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:07Speaker 04

  He was gonna have it published, but then the publisher, the manuscript disappeared and my dad was warned not to, not to publish it. And then the house fire happened.

• 1:01:18Danny Jones?

  What, what?

• 1:01:19Speaker 04

  But that was all the, the ELF stuff. I believe that's real, because my dad was trying to.

• 1:01:24Danny Jones?

  So the ELF stuff is all tied to like Havana syndrome and all that stuff, right?

• 1:01:27Speaker 03

  Correct. Yeah.

• 1:01:29Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:01:30Speaker 03

  But way early before all the, this stuff started coming out. We're talking like seventy-six, seventy-seven.

• 1:01:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, but Havana thing wasn't that sound waves, wasn't, was that? Extra low frequency.

• 1:01:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they're beaming some sort of frequencies or something like that.

• 1:01:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, but the ELF is is uh um extra low frequency. Uh which is like a really low bandwidth and the Russians were experimenting with it and Americans were experimenting with to use it as mind control over large populations. That's basically in the theory my dad had at least.

• 1:02:01Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:02:01Speaker 04

  And he was able to pick it up on his radio, could tune in and you could hear like this chopping sound like a helicopter. And he was totally into that and he was, you know, focused on that uh for a while.

• 1:02:13Danny Jones?

  How would you use these? What does ELF stand for?

• 1:02:17Speaker 04

  Extra low.

• 1:02:18Danny Jones?

  Extra low frequency. How would you use extra low frequencies for mind control?

• 1:02:23Speaker 04

  Well, apparently it has some kind of uh what would you call it? It works on the brain or it works on the physical body to make people edgy or, you know, it's just a way of mass you produces the signal. Then there was big antenna arrays. It was not like just a small thing.

• 1:02:41Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, the one in Russia is insane. The one in um in the middle of, find the picture of the big ELF panel in Russia. It's like the size of a goddamn football stadium.

• 1:02:49Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:02:49Speaker 03

  The idea is that certain frequencies can cause different reactions in the brain. So essentially, I think it's a very low frequency ELF that causes a sort of uh

• 1:03:06Speaker 04

  It's kind of a mind control.

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, like a trance-like state.

• 1:03:09Speaker 04

  But very crude.

• 1:03:10Danny Jones?

  So like it makes you more receptive to things?

• 1:03:13Speaker 03

  More receptive, tired, out of it, just discombobulated.

• 1:03:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:17Speaker 03

  Higher frequencies, which apparently they used in Iraq in the nineties, that causes people to be very agitated, very angry, very crazy. And this is the idea is like, say you have a little, well, this guy that Buharic worked with, Bob Beck, he created this little, what do you call it, a black box? And you could have it um sitting right here as we are right now and you can just literally go like this. And if it's the low one, all of a sudden you're, you know, doing this. If it's the high one, you're freaking out. So the idea is that this is being done on this type of scale.

• 1:03:51Danny Jones?

  That's the one in Russia.

• 1:03:54Speaker 03

  And Puhar became.

• 1:03:57Danny Jones?

  It's still sitting there today, right?

• 1:03:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, I believe it's still there.

• 1:04:00Danny Jones?

  But it's dead now, right?

• 1:04:02Speaker 03

  But this is one of the things that Puhar I find is sort of redeeming in the sense that he went out. I mean, I think you can you can speak to this too. Like, he, I guess, proved that this is what was going on. This this technology was real. It was being used. He wanted to blow the whistle on this. And and they they, once again, they, you know, were saying, you know, you can't do this. You know, too much, etc. That's probably why the house was burned. But he, after the house, you know.

• 1:04:34Danny Jones?

  So the house was burned right after?

• 1:04:36Speaker 03

  Same, pretty much the same time he was.

• 1:04:38Danny Jones?

  He wrote some manuscript about it?

• 1:04:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was going out. He was lecturing. But he really, even after the fire, he went out and he's kind of made it his sort of mission in those later years to just warn people. Like, I have discovered this. This is a huge problem.

• 1:04:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, you even made a device to protect you, protect you from it, right?

• 1:04:59Danny Jones?

  And what's the story with the house? What's the conventional explanation for the house burning down? Like, what was the investigation? What was the investigation?

• 1:05:07Speaker 04

  It was definitely concluded was arson.

• 1:05:09Danny Jones?

  It was arson?

• 1:05:10Speaker 04

  It was definitely arson. Yeah.

• 1:05:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's a police.

• 1:05:12Speaker 04

  And it was people in the house. They they they tried to kill the people that were in the house as well, because they doused the front porch and the back porch with some very flammable liquid, which was only used by certain, you know, it was a really weird kind of thing. So that both the the escape exits were blocked. And there was like three people in the house. Heidi was there, right?

• 1:05:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:36Speaker 04

  She had to jump from the from the second floor. It was pretty intense. And.

• 1:05:42Danny Jones?

  Where was your dad at the time?

• 1:05:43Speaker 04

  He was in, I think he was in California at the time. Yeah. So he wasn't.

• 1:05:48Danny Jones?

  So they knew he wasn't there. They must have known he wasn't there.

• 1:05:51Speaker 04

  Yeah. And I'd been there all summer. And I left two days before the fire happened. So I was sold out. They didn't want to kill me. Thank God.

• 1:05:59Danny Jones?

  Do you think they were so who do you think it was?

• 1:06:04Speaker 04

  They.

• 1:06:05Danny Jones?

  If you were to guess.

• 1:06:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, my dad always said it was the CIA, but you know, I mean, he could, you know, there's so many agencies, what are you gonna, when are you gonna call them? You know, it could be any agency, but at least, you know, it was an agency that was determined to stop him from getting this information out into the world.

• 1:06:22Danny Jones?

  Was there evidence in the house that was destroyed?

• 1:06:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I think that was the idea, destroy what's in there, but I mean, of course, a lot of it's saved, because you have it, that ultimately wound up with me, but.

• 1:06:34Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, by, by course of a miracle, the, the, someone was able to alarm, to, to set off a fire alarm, which was in the street, and fire trucks came very quickly, and they saved most of the house and most of the paperwork as well.

• 1:06:49Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:06:49Speaker 04

  Which was pretty incredible, so.

• 1:06:51Speaker 03

  But it was clearly way more sophisticated than, you know, a disgruntled person who was there, who was like, I'm gonna light a fire, I mean, even the arson report details how sophisticated, yeah, they blocked the doors, I mean.

• 1:07:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was professional, they, they, they said they could tell by the, the straightness of the lines where they poured the, the liquid, that the guy had no nerves, because they were perfectly straight lines, you know, and stuff like that, because, you know, they're saying that it was a professional, it wasn't, you know. So, I mean, that's real, that's real, and after that, my dad really freaked out, and he, he went in hiding in Mexico for, I don't know, a couple of years.

• 1:07:31Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:07:32Speaker 04

  And he was really, and after that, he was obsessed by the CIA trying to get to him.

• 1:07:38Danny Jones?

  It kinda got, got him paranoid, huh?

• 1:07:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, but very paranoid, I mean, it went way over the top.

• 1:07:42Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:07:43Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:44Danny Jones?

  And didn't he write a book about the sacred mushroom?

• 1:07:47Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:07:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:48Danny Jones?

  Was that when he went to Mexico?

• 1:07:50Speaker 03

  Uh, oh, actually, yeah, here, look.

• 1:07:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, this was recently republished.

• 1:07:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, both of these.

• 1:07:55Speaker 04

  So it's kind of interesting.

• 1:07:56Danny Jones?

  Oh, look at that.

• 1:07:57Speaker 04

  Yeah. I, I brought only the cover, because I was trying to travel lightly.

• 1:08:02Danny Jones?

  Sacred Mushroom, The Key to the Door of Eternity.

• 1:08:06Speaker 04

  See, that was, that was in, what is it, fifty-nine when he published that, I think originally? And so that was one of his initial investigations into the paranormal.

• 1:08:19Danny Jones?

  Fifty-nine, you said?

• 1:08:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, fifty-nine, yeah.

• 1:08:22Speaker 04

  Fifty.

• 1:08:22Speaker 03

  But it was written in throughout the fifties.

• 1:08:24Danny Jones?

  So this was before John Allegro's Sacred Mushroom book, I think?

• 1:08:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think we talked about this.

• 1:08:29Speaker 04

  This was very early.

• 1:08:29Danny Jones?

  We did talk about this, yeah.

• 1:08:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, because he did all the, sorry, he did all the research for it, like, earlier, and I think it just happened that fifty-nine is the year it was published.

• 1:08:39Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:08:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah. In the sacred mushroom, Andrea Puharich takes us on an extraordinary journey into the realm where ancient whispers intertwine with the pulse of modern exploration. The Amanita muscaria, mysterious and powerful, a gateway to the unseen, reveals its long-veiled truths through his words, weaving past through luminous corridors of consciousness and awakening. Wild.

• 1:09:04Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:09:05Danny Jones?

  So.

• 1:09:06Speaker 04

  The story behind this is he was doing trans work with certain psychics, and there was this one psychic called, um, what was it, Peter Herkis, or was it?

• 1:09:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:15Speaker 04

  Harry Stone.

• 1:09:16Speaker 03

  Harry Stone.

• 1:09:17Speaker 04

  Harry Stone. So he started channeling and writing hieroglyphs, uh, suddenly, and my dad, of course, didn't really know what was, what was being written, so he started studying ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs. And it turned out he was talking about this mushroom as a way to open up people to become more perceptive.

• 1:09:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:38Speaker 04

  So that's basically when he got interested in the mushroom and did a lot of research into that, went to, went out to find, there's a lot of footage on that as well, isn't there?

• 1:09:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, and, um.

• 1:09:51Danny Jones?

  Footage?

• 1:09:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, my dad made all these, he went to Mexico to film, uh, what was it, rights being conducted by Brujas with this mushroom, where, um, like, the donkey was stolen. And they wanted to find out who did it, you know, some basic stuff like that, so they did this ceremony and, uh, you know, and then the Bruja said, ah, it's that guy and the donkey's over there. You know?

• 1:10:18Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:10:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, crazy stuff, but that's all on film, it's really.

• 1:10:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:21Speaker 04

  Old school, but it's, it's, it's very cool.

• 1:10:24Danny Jones?

  So how much did he start experimenting with psychedelics after this?

• 1:10:29Speaker 03

  Well, I think even before the, well, around the same time as the mushroom, I know he was involved in early LSD stuff as well.

• 1:10:38Danny Jones?

  Was he connected to John Lilly?

• 1:10:40Speaker 03

  Yes. In fact, John Lilly is the guy who does all the experiments with dolphins and communication with dolphins and

• 1:10:49Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:10:51Speaker 03

  And I know Andrea was interested in that, too. But yeah, he, they were very close colleagues, yeah. In fact, Buhatch told us a story about how, and I guess in Lilly's later life, he had had some manic episode. Buhatch went and tried to help him and everything.

• 1:11:06Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:11:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, but they were very close, yeah.

• 1:11:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he was all, he was all, he was on what ketamine, I think it was, maybe?

• 1:11:12Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm, yeah.

• 1:11:13Danny Jones?

  Something, but he thought he was talking to aliens and shit.

• 1:11:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:16Danny Jones?

  Completely lost it. NASA funded John Lilly to figure out like interspecies communication.

• 1:11:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:23Danny Jones?

  And John Lilly was like, you know, cutting open the heads of dolphins and like experimenting on their brains and shit, like really probes in their brains, trying to figure out like telepathy and stuff.

• 1:11:35Speaker 03

  There's a good film about him. It's, it's all about this woman who was working in his lab with the dolphins at the time. It's like the first time she's ever spoken about it and it came out years ago.

• 1:11:46Danny Jones?

  Is this the lady that was fucking the dolphin?

• 1:11:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think.

• 1:11:48Danny Jones?

  I saw this one.

• 1:11:49Speaker 03

  I think it was.

• 1:11:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the dolphin lived in the house with her.

• 1:11:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:52Danny Jones?

  She like filled it with water.

• 1:11:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:54Danny Jones?

  Crazy documentary dude.

• 1:11:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I think to answer your question, yeah, he was involved, I don't know how deeply, but he definitely talks about in lectures about how the first time they started experimenting with LSD, he was involved with that and he named.

• 1:12:09Speaker 04

  That was in his army days, too. You must not forget that he was put into an army division where they were research, doing research into drugs that could enhance soldiers' abilities and they were experimenting with all kinds of stuff. So my dad was put obviously on that specific detail and I even have, I have these booklets at home.

• 1:12:33Speaker 05

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade, hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage, HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 1:13:32Speaker 04

  Order forms with marijuana, cocaine on it and he could just check a list to order all these drugs for his experiments. That's crazy stuff.

• 1:13:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, Army Chemical Center. He was stationed there for a long time in the 50s. Yeah.

• 1:13:50Danny Jones?

  And so he was ordering all these drugs for, what was the purpose of it?

• 1:13:55Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, it was for the military, so obviously they, they didn't want to turn their soldiers into hippies. They wanted to turn them into...

• 1:14:03Danny Jones?

  Right. They didn't want to become anti-war.

• 1:14:05Speaker 04

  Yeah. So they were doing all these experiments. What's that movie with, I forget the name of it. Where they're experimenting on, doing all these experiments on, on people and trying to get, make them psychic. What's the name of that film?

• 1:14:24Speaker 03

  The Manistheric Goats.

• 1:14:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, Manistheric Goats. Right, yeah. Pretty much that. It's pretty much that was what he, what he was doing.

• 1:14:31Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:14:32Speaker 04

  Yeah. But that was because he was, you know, he was drafted. That wasn't voluntary. And when he came out, of course, he, he was still, he still had his research lab in Maine and he did a lot of experiments there too. But I don't think he... Went on with the, with LSD or any other drugs. He was just mentally interested in the mushroom.

• 1:14:52Speaker 03

  Well, the thing was is the, it was the oil of the Amanita muscaria mushroom. You take the oil of it and you rub it into your forehead. And that is apparently what enables the, the connection to, to happen where somebody becomes more receptive.

• 1:15:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah. According to who?

• 1:15:11Speaker 03

  Well, according to him.

• 1:15:12Danny Jones?

  Well, did he discover this like in Mexico or something? Or was it, what was this part of like some tribal ritual?

• 1:15:17Speaker 03

  I think it was a ritual. Yeah. That he brought back and was, and was experimenting with at his lab. Yeah.

• 1:15:25Danny Jones?

  That's bonkers, dude.

• 1:15:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. And that's a weird mushroom too. If you look it up.

• 1:15:30Danny Jones?

  The Amanita?

• 1:15:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:32Speaker 03

  There's some.

• 1:15:32Danny Jones?

  Connected to so many different myths.

• 1:15:34Speaker 03

  Exactly. Yeah. Some guy wrote a book about it. Uh, he's probably heard of this guy. I can't remember his name, but he, he kinda took on the mushroom research. Who Arch was doing to like present day and he writes about it and.

• 1:15:49Danny Jones?

  He's alive today?

• 1:15:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. What's his name? Uh, I'll remember. But yeah, he kinda like took the torch there and is doing a bunch of experiments with the Amanita muscaria. So.

• 1:16:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Well, there's that book, Road to Illusus by Carl Ruck and Wasson, Gordon Wasson. And, um, where they basically make the case that, uh, like all the hallucinian mysteries that were happening in ancient Greece. Were like drug, like these, uh, there was this thing that they were drinking. And, uh, it was somehow psychedelic and it was some, it was like somehow related to like the origins of religion. And, uh, like if you think about like some of the crazy stuff that you read in these ancient texts, like it seems almost like psychedelic trip. Like a psychedelic trip.

• 1:16:39Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Was it Harry Stone?

• 1:16:41Speaker 15

  There you go.

• 1:16:42Danny Jones?

  Is Harry Stone the guy you were talking about?

• 1:16:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:16:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's also.

• 1:16:50Speaker 04

  Aldous Huxley was one of my dad's friends as well.

• 1:16:53Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:16:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, he used to come up to the, to the lab.

• 1:16:58Danny Jones?

  No way.

• 1:16:59Speaker 04

  Aldous Huxley held me when I was a baby is the story they always told me.

• 1:17:04Danny Jones?

  That's a cool story.

• 1:17:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, cool story. I don't remember it though.

• 1:17:07Speaker 03

  There's a bunch of letters between them from back then.

• 1:17:09Danny Jones?

  So, um, all of the, all of these documents and these tapes that you got,

• 1:17:20Danny Jones?

  is this stuff that like would be considered like classified by the government?

• 1:17:26Danny Jones?

  Or that they wouldn't be happy that you have?

• 1:17:28Speaker 04

  No, I actually gave all of it to Northwestern University and they're archiving it and it's going to be public.

• 1:17:34Danny Jones?

  Oh, no way.

• 1:17:35Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah. Everything I had.

• 1:17:38Danny Jones?

  But is this the stuff that you think that they were trying to destroy or they didn't want to get out there?

• 1:17:42Speaker 04

  I think they were basically, I mean, I, as I said earlier, it was basically about, about the ELF stuff at the time.

• 1:17:47Danny Jones?

  The ELF stuff.

• 1:17:48Speaker 04

  The ELF stuff. That's why the house was.

• 1:17:50Danny Jones?

  And this, all the documents and the recordings that you guys have that you were able to get, um, that's basically all the channeling stuff where they're talking to the nine?

• 1:17:58Speaker 03

  Well, it's a lot of stuff. I mean, so there's stuff that I've acquired that wasn't in the archives of, of, that you had, and that stuff could potentially be of concern. You know, there's, there's, there's a researcher named Dick Russell. Do you know him?

• 1:18:16Danny Jones?

  He sounds familiar.

• 1:18:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, he wrote a really good book about JFK assassination and he's, he's been around for a while, but he knew Puharz really well and he went to devotion, North Carolina, where Puharz was living before he passed away and, um, he like photocopied all these documents that were sitting around. Did I, did I tell you about this? Cause he, he basically, he went to his house and the caretaker at the time, who I don't remember who it was, who was living with Andrea said, you know, it seems his days are numbered and you should just copy everything you can because we don't know what's going to happen to it. So he copied just everything he could kind of get his hands on and a lot of that stuff were.

• 1:19:00Speaker 03

  Correspondence and documents between Andrea and all these kind of people he was involved with throughout his career, intelligence people, like the stuff that I found, I told you the Allen Dulles correspondence was from that. So there's that stuff that wasn't in the personal archive and in the personal one, yeah, it was a lot of the tape recordings. But, you know, who's to say, I mean, maybe, because no one's really listened to it before other than really.

• 1:19:30Speaker 04

  You.

• 1:19:31Speaker 03

  Yeah. So no, so who's to say that that it could, I mean, I agree, I mean, I don't think it's, it's obviously, I'm not like a wanted person here, I mean, but who's to say that some of that stuff couldn't contain potentially classified material information? I don't know, because I don't think people know what's, what's in there and what's on them.

• 1:19:55Speaker 04

  Oh, you found a lot of stuff.

• 1:19:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:57Speaker 04

  You did some incredible research.

• 1:19:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:59Speaker 04

  You found a lot of stuff in there that I never knew about.

• 1:20:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, but there's references in the channeling tapes to Russia and different countries and Israel. So, you know, who, again, it was so long ago, I guess I kind of think like, why would that matter now? But maybe, maybe.

• 1:20:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it seemed like from, it seemed like from the stuff that I heard, it seemed to be very much related to like geopolitical conflicts, right?

• 1:20:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:20:24Danny Jones?

  Like, this is gonna happen, we need to do this, or something like that.

• 1:20:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly, yeah. During the Middle East War, yeah. So, I mean, one thought too, is, you know, the idea of, because there's so many tapes that were saved, and I often think like, what, of course you want to, they're your tapes, you're recording, but it's kind of interesting to think that those were kept all these years, you know? I don't know what the end goal of that was, you know?

• 1:20:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:20:55Speaker 03

  As were they recorded to be given to somebody, were they recorded just so he could have them? I mean, I don't know.

• 1:21:02Speaker 04

  No, my dad was a very scientific, he recorded everything, he noted down everything in his journals, very.

• 1:21:11Speaker 04

  Specifically and with dates and everything, you know, I mean, he was a scientist, so he didn't. He kept records of everything. Fortunately, you know, because you were able to.

• 1:21:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:21Speaker 04

  Listen to it and decipher a lot of it.

• 1:21:24Speaker 03

  But yeah, I think to answer your question, yeah, I think we don't know, may maybe. There could certainly be stuff within there that would be considered classified or would be considered.

• 1:21:36Danny Jones?

  But you you think that the the E L F stuff was the most sensitive shit that they were probably trying to keep under wraps more than anything?

• 1:21:45Speaker 04

  Well, specifically when the house was burned down, I mean, after that. You know, my dad would get all upset when he had a flat tire and he'd say that the CIA was behind it, you know? That was obviously bullshit, you know? But the the the house burning down, that was that was real. And, you know, I I only I only know what I know and Greg's. Done a lot of digging, maybe found some more something.

• 1:22:12Danny Jones?

  So after the house burned down, you were already back in the States, right?

• 1:22:17Speaker 04

  I was back in the Netherlands.

• 1:22:18Danny Jones?

  Oh, you're back in the Netherlands. At what point did you come back here to spend to spend time with your dad?

• 1:22:24Speaker 04

  Uh, well, he spent he spent a couple of years in Mexico and actually hooked up with a bunch of. Yogis because at that point he was obviously there was a lot of channeling going on. And information I've gotten through that was going to be a world and ending event. And he had to gather these people and go to a certain spot in Mexico and they were. You know, that kind of stuff survive the the catastrophe, whatever. And I was I was with him in Mexico for about three months.

• 1:22:57Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:22:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was cool. I learned yoga.

• 1:23:01Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:23:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:23:02Danny Jones?

  What were you guys doing down there every day?

• 1:23:04Speaker 04

  Just hanging out? This, you know, camping out.

• 1:23:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:07Speaker 04

  Camping out and and preparing for the end. And there was a specific date when it was all going to end.

• 1:23:13Danny Jones?

  When was the date? Was it Easter?

• 1:23:15Speaker 04

  I'm terrible at dates. I'm terrible at but but listen, that happened like three times since I know my dad, we were. You know, somewhere and he had gotten this information that that world was going to end.

• 1:23:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:23:26Speaker 04

  Preparing and he was going to have to pick up the pieces and stuff like that, you know? And, uh, yeah, no, we're still here and we're worried about. You know, it happening tomorrow, right?

• 1:23:38Speaker 03

  It was Y2K and it was also supposed to be this past Easter, the world was supposed to end.

• 1:23:41Speaker 04

  I've gotten, I've gotten a little skeptical. I've, I've sat through many end of the, end of the world

• 1:23:48Speaker 04

  events. But, you know, and then he came back and he lived in, in devotion for many years. That's where he eventually died too. And.

• 1:24:00Speaker 03

  Where is that?

• 1:24:01Speaker 04

  North Carolina.

• 1:24:02Speaker 03

  North Carolina.

• 1:24:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:24:03Speaker 03

  And were you with him in his final years?

• 1:24:05Speaker 04

  Uh, I was with him once in a while because I was still living in the Netherlands. I had my life there. Um, but I would come and visit a lot and take care of him. I would chop wood for him and, uh, but you know, he was then, uh, still investigating a lot of stuff and, and, but he got pretty sick at the end and he had dementia and, uh, he didn't do much work, uh, after that. He tried to warn people for it. And he was making this watch, which was gonna protect you against the ELF signal. But that was like a business for him. I'm not sure if that ever really worked. So in the later years of his life, he didn't really

• 1:24:48Speaker 04

  do, you know, much interesting stuff anymore. So, uh, and he was haunted by the CIA. Did you, did you find anything from those years? I mean, we'd go around and lecture a lot.

• 1:25:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:03Speaker 04

  But did you find interesting documents or?

• 1:25:08Speaker 03

  Well, no, of course there's the theory that he, his death was caused by, you know, someone who did not want him around and. How did he die?

• 1:25:20Speaker 04

  Uh, they found him at the bottom of the stairs. Either he had a heart attack or he fell down the stairs. He had a big hole in his head. So we never, it was never really determined exactly how he died.

• 1:25:30Speaker 03

  How old was he?

• 1:25:32Danny Jones?

  Seventy six. Oh, wow.

• 1:25:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Do you believe that there was any foul play in that? Or do you think it was natural? I think it was natural. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't really. It didn't seem like at that age, when he's not active in his research, it doesn't seem like they would be like trying to whack him, you know?

• 1:25:51Speaker 03

  Well, there is a.

• 1:25:51Danny Jones?

  What do I know?

• 1:25:52Speaker 03

  There's a strange connection in which is there's a documentary called about Jacobo Grinberg. Have you heard of him?

• 1:26:01Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:26:02Speaker 03

  He's a Mexican researcher. He was very involved in the same kind of stuff, telepathy, ESP. You should bring something up on this guy because the film's really good, but basically here he is here. Mexican neurophysiologist. So he was very involved in this type of research and what's and he and he and Puharich were very close. And in fact, Andy and.

• 1:26:27Danny Jones?

  Sounds like a cult leader.

• 1:26:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, they got together in Mexico a couple of times. Point of the story is in in February,

• 1:26:39Speaker 03

  in January of ninety five, which was a month, less than a month before Puharich passed away, this guy disappeared. And to this day, and if you watch the documentary about him, which is really good, they have not figured out what's happened to this guy. It's still considered like an open missing person situation. They have no idea what happened to him. And he was very closely working with Puharich and just and he disappeared. No one knows what happened. There's all these theories, you know, he was kidnapped and he's living in some, you know, CIA bunker and doing research for them. But it's very odd, and I'm not suggesting the foul play thing with Puharich. I'm just saying it was if you look up the dates,

• 1:27:22Speaker 03

  it was like within a month, if not less than a month, that this guy goes missing. Puharich, you know, dies. The Stargate program, which was investigating psychic phenomena with the government that.

• 1:27:37Speaker 03

  You know, that comes out publicly in 95 as well.

• 1:27:40Danny Jones?

  Oh, really? That's when that was released? All the information on Stargate?

• 1:27:44Speaker 03

  So that was with the same time, I think, again, you can look at the dates, but it was that January, February, March 95. So again, I don't want to be the, the conspiracy guy here, but.

• 1:27:56Danny Jones?

  No, I mean, those are interesting coincidences.

• 1:27:58Speaker 03

  Just dots to put together, but I have not found anything when it comes to Andrea that would suggest foul play. No one's ever, I think one person told me, oh, yeah.

• 1:28:11Speaker 04

  He wasn't a threat anymore. I mean, he was walking around in diapers, you know, he wasn't, he wasn't a threat.

• 1:28:15Danny Jones?

  Wasn't a threat to anybody.

• 1:28:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I would, I would.

• 1:28:19Danny Jones?

  Do you think there was any sort of like secrets he may have held on to until the end that he may have never told anybody?

• 1:28:26Speaker 04

  I doubt it, to be quite honest, because he would still go around and lecture a lot and he would, you know, he would elaborate on everything he had done.

• 1:28:33Danny Jones?

  It was an open book, huh?

• 1:28:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, he was pretty much an open.

• 1:28:35Speaker 03

  I have a comment on that because, you know, in the film, in the beginning, there's a tape recording of Puharich that you hear. And that was done in 1995, which was the year he died. And that tape was recorded by Dick Russell, this researcher I told you who went to the house and photocopied everything. He went to the hospital and said, you know, I want to get one last interview with this guy because, you know, I think at the time Dick Russell was trying to write a book about MKUltra stuff. So he was like, I want to interview this guy Puharich because, I mean, A, he's not

• 1:29:18Speaker 03

  well, B, he's very important, someone needs to get one last statement from him. So he gave me that tape and on that tape, he basically asks like the same question you ask in a sense, like, is there anything you haven't said or do you know things that should be revealed? And, and Puharich answers and he, and he says, yeah, it's my, it's what I discovered of how you can channel and communicate with ETs using the Faraday cage method. And that's.

• 1:29:48Speaker 04

  Was that a secret?

• 1:29:50Speaker 03

  No, because obviously he was open about it, but I think there was something specific about the certain way you set up the Faraday cage that was very- The TD machine, right? And the TD machine that there was some- What's the TV machine? The TD 100 machine from earlier, the hearing machine. So there's some weird combination between putting someone in a Faraday cage, having them linked up to this hearing machine and channeling and receiving information. There's some weird, something happens with that combination that he's claiming on this

• 1:30:28Speaker 03

  tape is a way that is like a, you know, surefire way you can communicate and contact entities in other dimensions. And he says, "This is the thing that the government was all over me about." And again, is he- Did he say that on tape? Yeah. So was he out of his mind? This is recorded. Yes. You have this? Yes. Can we hear it? Well, I don't have it now. I mean, I can, yeah, we can, I can show you. But, so, again, that raises some questions, you know, was he just old, delusional? But, or did he really see this as an opportunity to say one final thing like that? I don't know, but all I know is Dick Russell wanted to record him when he was very at

• 1:31:11Speaker 03

  the end of his life and he says this. And what do you make of that? But that's kind of interesting because my dad never was in the hospital. Well, he went, he went there one time, I think, before he was let go and went back home because you can, you can hear the, you know, the machines in the background and the dinging. And he was there with that woman, Mary Ann Schenfield. Remember that woman, Mary Ann? She was like a psychic that- Oh, my God. She was with him. Right. So apparently there was some incident before he passed away where he had to go for a day or something and get an IV or something like that. Okay.

• 1:31:54Speaker 03

  So, so that's what I know. Is that true? Is that real? I don't know. But he's kind of admitting like that's the one thing that's real and tangible that he sort of discovered and-

• 1:32:09Danny Jones?

  The Faraday cage idea to me is so wild because like one of my out there theories about all this stuff is that like all the technology we're surrounded by 24/7 and like the fucking cell towers that are around us and all the power lines and all the lighting and the electricity we're surrounded by sort of like dims our senses and like keeps us docile and maybe like shuts the door to any kind of like extra thing that might be out there that we can sense, right? And I think like my conspiratorial mind is like, maybe that's on purpose. They're just trying to keep us dumb and concealed so we can't, you know, reach a higher consciousness. And it's just so interesting because you hear stories, people going like the Amazon and like all of a

• 1:32:53Danny Jones?

  sudden like, like their senses open up and they can like, just by listening to the sounds of the birds and the insects and all that, they can like detect things that they wouldn't normally be able to detect or like sense danger in a certain way they could never detect in a city. And the fact that you can put somebody in a Faraday cage, completely shut out from all of that stuff, like the technology and radio waves and signals.

• 1:33:16Speaker 04

  You should build one.

• 1:33:18Danny Jones?

  It's just very interesting. It's very interesting.

• 1:33:21Speaker 04

  You should make this whole room a Faraday cage.

• 1:33:22Danny Jones?

  That would be incredible. We should do that.

• 1:33:24Speaker 03

  Well, you know, some people-

• 1:33:25Danny Jones?

  But we wouldn't have Wi-Fi, Stephen. Oh, he can hardwire your computer, right?

• 1:33:28Speaker 03

  Some people can't handle that. I've heard stories like, I mean, you've actually been in your dad's Faraday cage, which is crazy. But you know, some people can't handle it. They go in and it's so quiet that they, they just like shut down and they can't be in there, but because of how different and just how off they feel. Yeah. Because this is so quiet. They're not, you, because like you're saying, you're so bombarded all the time that to go back quickly-

• 1:33:54Danny Jones?

  I'd be curious to see what that, what would happen.

• 1:33:56Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, it also, it leaves room for whatever other things that come through that are not affected by, by physiology, by our physics, the mind. I mean, that's obviously why my dad did those experiments in the Faraday cage to see if people, you know, would get images. Through their mind.

• 1:34:17Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:34:18Speaker 04

  And that works. That certainly works because you're shielded from everything else.

• 1:34:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:34:23Speaker 04

  So the stuff that's, you know, from a different dimension or whatever. That does pass through. That's what makes it really interesting.

• 1:34:31Danny Jones?

  How do you build a Faraday cage?

• 1:34:33Speaker 04

  Oh, it's very simple. You just make a copper sheeted box. My dad used to put some, I think, a high-frequency signal on it. But I don't even think you need it. You need to ground it.

• 1:34:46Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:34:47Speaker 04

  It's very basic, really, but it has to be totally sealed shut, so nothing, no leaks or anything.

• 1:34:53Danny Jones?

  Did you ever go in his?

• 1:34:55Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, all the time.

• 1:34:56Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:34:56Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, all the time. I used to sit there and meditate. It was incredible.

• 1:35:00Danny Jones?

  What was it? Yeah, what was it?

• 1:35:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, very quiet. Very quiet and then very, you know, you feel like. I mean, I can imagine why people would get upset because you feel totally alone and isolated. But if you meditate, you, you know, it feels really, really good.

• 1:35:16Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:35:16Speaker 04

  So.

• 1:35:19Speaker 04

  And it was soundproofed as well, so it was really a very quiet spot to be in. But he did a lot of, a lot of sessions with mediums in there. So a lot of, most of the channeling he did would do, would be in the Faraday cage for that reason. See, the thing that is not talked about a lot is my dad was obviously also a very spiritual man because he pretty much discovered that everything that makes psychic powers possible is the part of us that we call soul or conscious or whatever. You know, that's, that's the, the main thing that makes us what we are. You know, and everything else around it is, is, I don't know what you called it earlier, it's just, you know.

• 1:36:04Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. Yeah, one of the most interesting things that I think Isak Bentoff said was that we don't have souls, souls have us. And we're like, bodies are like carburetors for a car. Like a soul will change its carburetor every hundred years and find a new body.

• 1:36:21Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 1:36:22Danny Jones?

  That was kinda, that kinda blew my mind a little bit.

• 1:36:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, oh, I mean, that's very interesting to think about, you know, I mean, I mean, you know, what what are we? Are we uh, we're obviously animals, but we're obviously also animals with incredible capabilities. And and you know, the boundary between us and animals is is enormous. There's obviously something there that makes us special and the soul is omnipotable. I mean, and that's the thing that can bend metal. If you can, you know, if you can set yourself free enough to to allow that to happen, which is incredibly hard. You know, so we are kind of imprisoned. Soul is imprisoned in the body. But the soul is on the soul is on route, the soul is the thing that consciousness is what the universe is made of.

• 1:37:11Speaker 04

  That's what my dad told me. You know, it's consciousness, it's we're all looking at the stars and now we're looking at the backside of the moon. And it's all very interesting, but the whole, he said, the whole universe is made of consciousness, it's conscious that creates matter.

• 1:37:25Danny Jones?

  Yes, yes, yeah, it certainly makes a ton of sense. And it's also very interesting how like young children are more open to this stuff than like adults.

• 1:37:35Speaker 04

  Exactly, because we get boxed in by our own thoughts and by our own perceptions.

• 1:37:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah. They've already been hardened to the world and had their their reality constructed for them. And like kids who, you know, they seem to have like more kind of like, you know how kind of like sometimes like a cat will freak out at something because like, you know, something's in a room. You'll think like, oh, my God, my cat's seen a ghost, you know. And like dogs can sense things, like sometimes dogs don't want to be around certain people or go in certain houses or even if humans, you can, there's, I'm sure there's times you've walked into a room and it felt like the energy is just off here, you know. Like, that's certainly real with animals, it seems like. And I'm sure like a a young child who has not been sort of indoctrinated by the modern world yet

• 1:38:24Danny Jones?

  or even learned language yet can somehow tap into that same stuff, you know.

• 1:38:30Speaker 04

  There's a lot of children that have recollection of past lives.

• 1:38:35Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:38:36Speaker 04

  Which they, you know, which they lose very early on in life. But young children often have, you know, vivid images of lives.

• 1:38:46Speaker 03

  Well, that was a big part of the research with the space kids.

• 1:38:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:38:51Speaker 03

  This idea that under hypnosis, they would reveal this past life of being from another planet.

• 1:38:58Speaker 04

  That was a big aspect of my dad's work, really, was, you know, I don't know if you know about the Space Kids program. He. Yeah, who were the Space Kids? Space Kids were basically, um, mostly young people, that's why they're called kids, uh, that he would meet that would have certain abilities and he wanted to develop them. And basically, he had them come together at his house in Austining and tried to educate them and took them in a Faraday cage, did sessions with them, put them in trance to see what, you know, what they would reveal. Um, but basically, he thought these kids were had extra powers or whatever, and he wanted to use them,

• 1:39:43Speaker 04

  use in quotes, educate them in how to, uh, make come, you know, make a transformation in the world of some kind. But this was also all, all channeled to him that he should do these things and get these groups together. I was in one of these space kids groups myself once, one summer. And, you know, he had people come in, uh, that taught us about our dreams, taught us about hypnosis, uh, taught us about the soul, what we really are, and, you know, he tried to educate these young peoples. And then later on, and that was the mind link summer where that I wasn't there, that I didn't attend, that you, uh, talk about in the, in the documentary a lot.

• 1:40:28Speaker 03

  It was basically this big group of space kids and, and adults and other researchers. They all joined at, at, uh, Austining at his house and they did this big mind link where apparently they, and I don't know if you experienced this part of it, but they would do, yeah, these sessions where they would go like days without talking to one another and they would just try to build up.

• 1:40:54Speaker 04

  Tune their minds. They wanted to literally link, link their minds. For what was the purpose? Do you know?

• 1:41:02Speaker 03

  Well, I was the the purpose that we suspect from looking at his writings and so forth is basically like they thought that with enough people in a circle with all of their minds tuned to the right frequency at the right time that that could bring in a stronger connection to, you know, an entity in another dimension. And the person sitting in the middle was the receiver. So all the people around were putting the energy to that person in the middle. And apparently there's stories that it was so intense that the first woman who was going to be the receiver in the middle like fainted and had needed medical attention. So they had to bring in

• 1:41:44Speaker 03

  a younger person to do it. So that all that those stories make you just question like, what's, what's going on here? You know, why would this be this hoax? You know, event to this is strange.

• 1:41:58Danny Jones?

  Well, like, and then there's also videos of of exorcists like pulling demons out of people on stage, you know, and like people like you see the videos of the guy who like, who like goes attack demon or whatever, and like throws this invisible force at these people and their their belief is so strong in like demons and angels and all this stuff. This guy is fucking convinced them that they have a demon or whatever. And then he like cast the demon away and the person will literally fall like fly 10 feet backwards. Yeah, you know, it's like the the power of belief is so incredibly strong, you know, it's like what the mind

• 1:42:38Danny Jones?

  is capable of. It's like almost impossible to comprehend. Like, how much of this is is just insatiable belief in something? Yeah, this. This guy, bro.

• 1:42:54Speaker 03

  I don't think this was necessarily happening in a

• 1:43:00Danny Jones?

  But there's also videos of like Bob, you know, Bob Larson, this exorcist guy we had on who would do exorcisms on people, right? And, and like, like picking people out of the crowd and like this young girl would like start talking in tongues like like Satan is like channel, like they're channeling Satan. And it's like, is this person really just acting for the camera? Or is the, do they actually believe because this exorcist is there telling them they're possessed by the devil? Is this some sort of like subconscious thing that's like coming forth? You know, I don't know.

• 1:43:33Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, and it's strange. And to give a more concrete example of like what they were doing, that the mind link and the group, the space kids, like, you know, Puhar should often talk about this idea that he was receiving higher physics from these entities and that he, certain people, like we talked about this woman, Sharon, who was the psychic that he worked with, who apparently was very, you know, like much better than a lot of the other people who were there at receiving. And, and she would bring through equations and, and physics and things that Puhar, I think,

• 1:44:13Speaker 03

  believed were a higher form or a different type of physics that was coming from another world. And he felt as though if he could get more and enough of it, that he could write it all down and make sense of it and sort of usher in this whole new way of thinking about the universe and thinking about, okay, this is how the communication works between us and these entities. So a lot of times these space kids would channel like weird information, equations and things that had to do with technology and weird formulas. And he, and I think a big part of it was Puhar saying, let me try to make sense of this and let me try to get more of this.

• 1:44:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:54Speaker 03

  That goes right to your point is like, And that's the weird thing about the channeling that I always thought is like, how is a, you know, 22 year old girl sitting there and just, and just saying, okay, I guess I'm just gonna make all this stuff up now and just start saying it. I mean, it's possible, but it just seems odd. Like, there's something else going on. I don't know what, is it a being talking through her? I know, I don't know, but it does seem like there's something weird with the mind and the people and the connection and something. Because I just find it unlikely, you know, again, we were talking like a lot of channel stuff, I'm sure, is bogus, but I just find it unlikely that a lot of these people, especially back then,

• 1:45:37Speaker 03

  the people he was working with were just like, making it up, that's it, that's the answer, they were all just making it up. And it's some of this stuff, I just think even people who were around back then would say like, oh, this woman was, no way she wouldn't be able to even like, come up with this kind of thing, you know? With all due respect, she's just not smart, intelligent enough to just make stuff up like this. So, it's very complex. So, I just don't rule it all away with, it's just people making it up.

• 1:46:07Danny Jones?

  Wasn't there some connection to Nikola Tesla? Wasn't he writing Tesla or something? No? Did I make that up?

• 1:46:14Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 1:46:15Speaker 04

  No, no, my dad, obviously, my dad was really interested in the work of Nikola Tesla, and all the technology that he came up with. The manuscript we're talking about, about the ELF is called Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter. And the ELF, because that's basically what that transmitter was, was a Nikola Tesla invention. You know, and Tesla, I mean, that's, you know, there's a lot of mysteries about Tesla as well. What did he invent? Did he, you know, did he take inventions to the grave? Were all of his inventions taken by the government? You know, and all that stuff?

• 1:46:50Speaker 03

  Well, there's that whole Trump, weird Trump connection. What was it, his uncle or something?

• 1:46:55Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, Trump's uncle. Yeah, he was connected to Townsend Brown.

• 1:46:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, and he took all these Tesla patents or something.

• 1:47:04Speaker 03

  I can't remember the exact connection, but it was it was either his uncle or something.

• 1:47:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it was his uncle.

• 1:47:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was came into possession of all these Tesla patents that no one has ever had before. He's the one who somehow has them now.

• 1:47:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he was connected. Trump's uncle was connected to like all these people in like aerospace research, including like Townsend Brown, who created this uh this way uh this propulsion called electrogravitics, which was like, I can't even explain it in words, but it's like basically, you know, it's kind of it has a lot to do with like how the the stealth bomber was engineered and all this stuff. And allegedly, there's claims that a lot of it went dark and went like private into like the military, like black budget sector that doesn't see the light of day.

• 1:47:54Speaker 04

  I personally did a lot of research into Tesla. I even wrote a film script about him. I went to all the places where he worked and where he was born and where he lived.

• 1:48:04Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:48:05Speaker 04

  Yeah. I did a lot of research. And what I came up with is that, um, you know, obviously at the end of his life or during his life, he was always depending on funding, right? Because he didn't make any money. He needed his research to be funded. And what happens is um you always make the story a little better when you're looking for funding, right? Because because you want the funding. And he was very dramatic. He would put on these big shows and he would, you know, display all these things he was working on. But a lot of it uh kind of never really worked, but he was just trying to get funding. So he kind of exaggerated um his findings and the technology. And I think a lot of that's been blown out of proportion.

• 1:48:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:50Speaker 04

  You know, you know, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:48:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah, totally.

• 1:48:52Speaker 04

  Yeah. And I think that I've seen my dad do exactly the same thing. He was working on his water splitting invention where he said he he worked on it for a long time. He had this he was splitting uh water into oxygen and hydrogen uh where, you know, you put in less energy than came out. So it's like almost a free energy device. And he worked on it for a long time. I worked on on that with him and I know that and in the end, the results were not were what he was looking for. Yeah. But he was being backed by certain people, so he kind of manipulated the outcome a little bit. And that's when I saw how that mechanism works. You know, you're trying to get funding. Right.

• 1:49:35Speaker 04

  And you exaggerate it a little bit. And now you can read on the internet everywhere that my dad did this invention and you know, and there's a lot of people trying to copy it and.

• 1:49:45Speaker 03

  It's basically using water as fuel.

• 1:49:47Speaker 04

  Get out of hand. Using water as fuel?

• 1:49:49Speaker 03

  That was the gist of it is basically you could power your automobile with.

• 1:49:53Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, I mean, if you if you if you split hydrogen into, I mean, water into hydrogen and oxygen, you have the best fuel there is. You know, hydrogen burns with oxygen and the result is water. Problem is you have to put in so much energy to split it that it's not worth worth doing it. I mean, they make hydrogen by electrolysis. I think that's what it's called in English electrolysis.

• 1:50:17Speaker 03

  Electrolysis.

• 1:50:18Speaker 04

  Electrolysis, right.

• 1:50:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:20Speaker 04

  Um, so my dad was inventing a way of putting, you know, using his T D one hundred device to split water in a more economical way where so you would get energy. Wow.

• 1:50:34Speaker 03

  And people claim, like, I never saw any evidence to this, but that he was driving around in his RV.

• 1:50:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, that's the story he said. He was driving his RV around Canada, Mexico. Powered by water? On the water. But unfortunately. Wasn't true. It was not true.

• 1:50:51Speaker 03

  Well, the big conspiracy is that guy who did invent some sort of water powered car was found killed. Yeah. Stanley something.

• 1:50:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:51:00Speaker 03

  But I think, if I'm not mistaken, what Andre was doing was much before this. He could have somehow ripped off.

• 1:51:08Danny Jones?

  Taken what he was doing and

• 1:51:10Speaker 04

  Hey, listen, his research, I mean, it was really good and I worked on on the project with him and we, you know, we would machine parts together and stuff and, you know, come up with new ways of experimenting. Uh, but, you know, the amount of, and eventually we went to a, to some university, I forget where it was. Um, to have the whole system tested with, um, with, uh, machines that were, uh, calibrated properly so you could get a real truthful reading on the amount of energy you were putting in and the amount of energy you're putting out. And I remember well how depressed my dad was because the results were not good.

• 1:51:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:51Speaker 04

  You know, so, you know, a lot of stuff, and I think the same thing happened with Tesla. I think a lot of his so-called incredible inventions that were, you know, never replicated were kind of blown out of proportions by him himself.

• 1:52:07Danny Jones?

  Wasn't Tesla able to create like an earthquake device?

• 1:52:10Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:52:11Danny Jones?

  Resonated and could bring down a building?

• 1:52:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, but that, that's

• 1:52:14Danny Jones?

  Was that fake or was that real?

• 1:52:16Speaker 04

  No, that's real, that's

• 1:52:16Danny Jones?

  That was real?

• 1:52:17Speaker 04

  That's regular physics, you can do that. You can make something resonate if you find the right frequency.

• 1:52:22Danny Jones?

  I heard a story, they were doing a test or something, like in the bottom of a building and it started to collapse on them or something?

• 1:52:27Speaker 04

  New York, yeah.

• 1:52:28Danny Jones?

  That was in New York, that was real.

• 1:52:29Speaker 04

  True story, yeah. Yeah, and he smashed the device to, to stop it. Cause he had built a device which was basically working by itself. I mean, resonant frequency is really interesting, that's what the TD one hundred device is about. You know, if you can get something to resonate in its own frequency, it's going to fall apart eventually. And you can, you know.

• 1:52:51Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:52:52Speaker 04

  I mean, it's really interesting stuff, definitely, but there's so many big labs all over the world experimenting with this stuff. And, you know, nobody's come up with a true free energy device so far.

• 1:53:05Danny Jones?

  That we know of.

• 1:53:06Speaker 04

  That we know of, true. That I will not deny.

• 1:53:10Danny Jones?

  And that's what leads to all the crazy conspiracy theories, you know, surrounding Tesla. Right? Because if he was able to create shit like that, that's not something you hear about today. Like, who uses a fucking earthquake machine? You know, I mean, I can imagine what it could be used for, like in a nefarious way by like a, a nation state or something or like

• 1:53:30Danny Jones?

  stuff like that, but like, how did Tesla die?

• 1:53:34Speaker 04

  Alone in his hotel room.

• 1:53:37Speaker 03

  But it was raided, right? That's the story.

• 1:53:39Speaker 04

  Well, afterwards, he was, he probably was raided by, by officials or whatever. They took all his documents.

• 1:53:45Danny Jones?

  So is there like a conspiracy behind how he was killed? Like, was he?

• 1:53:48Speaker 03

  You wouldn't know better than that.

• 1:53:50Speaker 04

  He was a very old, sick man.

• 1:53:51Danny Jones?

  He was?

• 1:53:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was really old and he wasn't doing anything anymore. He was going out and feeding the pigeons every day.

• 1:53:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:58Speaker 04

  You know, that kind of scenario.

• 1:53:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah, one of the, one of the, another, you know, on the subject of like how the truth can get blown out of proportion over time is, um, I had this gentleman on the podcast a couple of years ago. Christopher Dunn, who wrote a book about, um, called the Giza Power Plant. Basically how he thinks like the Great Pyramid was like some sort of a, a, a machine to create energy. Um, this guy was like, he was an aerospace engineer. And, um, you know, when he first discovered the pyramid and looked at like the inside of it and all the chambers and how it was built, he's like, oh my God, he's like, this thing is like a functional, this thing was built as to, for some purpose and it had some function. Like this was a clearly a, a, a machine. And, um,

• 1:54:41Danny Jones?

  there he found, there's a lot of theories out there that like Tesla was obsessed with the pyramids and people think that they were like a free energy device or whatever. And then he like dug deeper into it. And I think he said there was absolutely zero connection between Tesla and the pyramids.

• 1:54:56Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:54:56Danny Jones?

  Like, yeah, that was one of the shocking things to me. He's like, yeah, he's like, I've found no evidence that Tesla was ever interested to the, in the pyramids or even went to the pyramids at all. And I'm like, wow, because you Google Tesla and the pyramids, the shit's everywhere.

• 1:55:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, my dad's, my dad was very interested in the pyramids. He was actually able to spend a couple of nights alone in the, in the Pyramid of Giza.

• 1:55:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, there's a crazy frequency inside.

• 1:55:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, he wanted to feel and measure and.

• 1:55:24Speaker 03

  We have the tapes. He recorded himself in the pyramid and he did a channeling session with a

• 1:55:29Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:55:31Speaker 03

  Space kid. Yeah.

• 1:55:33Danny Jones?

  In the pyramid, in like one of the chambers, like the king's chamber?

• 1:55:37Speaker 03

  So they're in the king's chamber. He was with, um, it was him, it was Solvay Clark.

• 1:55:44Speaker 03

  Who was a woman who was, I don't know if we would say an assistant or

• 1:55:49Speaker 04

  Assistant and they were engaged at some point.

• 1:55:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. She was like a, yeah, helped, helped him with stuff. And so it was Puharich, her, and then this, this space kid who's this woman who at the time was named Anne. She's since changed her name. She's actually in the film. She's one of the space kids, but they went and they did a session in there and they were trying to telepathically link with the people back in Austin at his house. So the session is basically this space kid linking up with people back there and they were exchanging information and she

• 1:56:26Danny Jones?

  This was recorded.

• 1:56:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. And she was saying like, I can, I can see them now and what are they doing? And Melanie, they say, everything's fine here and they're, they're communicating. Yeah.

• 1:56:40Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:56:41Speaker 03

  And you know, his theory of course too, is like you're saying, because of the frequency in the, in the pyramid, that is sort of like a mega Faraday cage effect where it's just like, you know, the Faraday cage effect times a million because you're in there. And so that made them like super receptive.

• 1:56:58Speaker 04

  Well, you know that the pyramid was originally covered in copper, right?

• 1:57:03Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:57:04Speaker 04

  Yeah. I mean, now

• 1:57:05Danny Jones?

  Is that a fact?

• 1:57:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think that's a fact. I'm not, I'm not positive, but I think that they found that originally it was totally covered in copper. And of course all the copper was stolen over the years and, and

• 1:57:16Speaker 03

  Well, that's really interesting because that's

• 1:57:17Speaker 04

  You should look that up.

• 1:57:18Danny Jones?

  I heard that there were casing stones on the outside of it. I didn't hear that there was copper.

• 1:57:23Speaker 03

  Well, because copper is the whole thing with the Faraday cage and apparently the nine in the early channeled sessions, the nine would say you have to use more copper and copper is the key to this kind of communication. And, and so, so much so that they would say you, if you're the psychic you're working with, they should put on a copper bracelet.

• 1:57:44Speaker 04

  I built all, I was the one making the, all the copper bracelets.

• 1:57:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. Because of the copper's in connection with your skin, that's enabling the, the communication to happen easier with, with less trans, you know, better transmission. So all these people were in this little bracelet that had like a copper. Little rectangle that was connected to their skin.

• 1:58:05Speaker 04

  With the crystal.

• 1:58:07Speaker 03

  So I mean, that pyramid, I never knew about that pyramid thing. That's pretty interesting.

• 1:58:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's in there. I can't. And I'm not sure if I heard this correctly, if I'm recalling it collectively, but I think. Can you look that up?

• 1:58:17Danny Jones?

  Um, he's looking it up.

• 1:58:18Speaker 15

  So I, well, I'll show you what, what the AI shows.

• 1:58:23Danny Jones?

  Steve's an AI guy.

• 1:58:24Speaker 04

  Oh, that's cool.

• 1:58:24Speaker 15

  This is no, but it, I did find some stuff about, uh, that the Egyptians did use a shit ton of copper and that that it polluted their.

• 1:58:33Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:58:33Speaker 15

  Their area.

• 1:58:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah, copper was one of the metals they used for, for tools and stuff. Copper, they had copper tools and pounding stones. Allegedly, that's how they built the pyramid.

• 1:58:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, right.

• 1:58:45Speaker 03

  And Buhart was also very early on, um, talking about the pyramid connection, you know, like the one in China. You know, Egyptian pyramids and these different ones around the globe and how they're all connected.

• 1:58:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:58Speaker 03

  That kind of thing, which I think is now being talked about a lot more and looked into. Like he was talking about that in early seventies.

• 1:59:05Danny Jones?

  I'm really curious, Steve, what can you find? Like, is there any, um, like known sort of effect of copper? On skin? Like if you wear copper jewelry, is there any sort of like? I don't know, like benefits or like health benefits or sort of like?

• 1:59:26Speaker 04

  Well, don't you remember in the, in the, uh, when the pandemic was going on, apparently if you use copper, copper, um, repels? Any germs.

• 1:59:36Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:59:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:59:36Danny Jones?

  I have never heard that.

• 1:59:37Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. You've never heard that?

• 1:59:39Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:59:40Speaker 04

  Have you heard that?

• 1:59:41Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:59:42Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. Copper, if you wear copper, copper will, the germs will not stick to copper. They don't like it. Tell me if I'm lying. I could be wrong, but I'm, I remember I made this little copper stick at the time that I would use to touch things.

• 1:59:56Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:59:57Speaker 04

  In the beginning, when I was very paranoid.

• 1:59:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:00:01Speaker 15

  Yeah, all this space, I mean, one of them.

• 2:00:03Speaker 04

  Copper is a really interesting metal. I mean, it has all these spectacular properties that have been used all over the place.

• 2:00:10Danny Jones?

  Any luck, Steve? Find me a copper conspiracy, bro.

• 2:00:14Speaker 03

  There's something about copper that's very important, too.

• 2:00:18Danny Jones?

  Copper does not have widely proven physiological benefits. Steve's like a, he's a, he's a Google bootlicker. He just likes to find whatever the consensus is at Google AI. Copper does not have any proven physiological benefits when worn as jewelry, though it is a potent antimicrobial and effectively kills most germs on contact. What?

• 2:00:39Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 2:00:40Danny Jones?

  A metal kills germs?

• 2:00:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:00:44Danny Jones?

  Why am I just learning this today?

• 2:00:47Speaker 03

  I don't.

• 2:00:48Danny Jones?

  Okay, um, copper is an essential trace mineral for human health when ingested, aiding in red blood cell formation and bone health. The benefit of wearing a, uh, the benefits of wearing are largely anecdotal and not supported by rigorous scientific evidence. Pain in arthritis, clinical trials have repeatedly shown that copper bracelets are generally ineffective in managing pain stiffness or physical function in patients with osteoarthritis or rheumatoid arthritis. Hmm, skin, skin health. Some studies on copper infused fabrics like socks or pillowcases suggest that they can improve skin elasticity, reduce fine lines,

• 2:01:30Danny Jones?

  and even treat fungal infections like athlete's foot. That is bizarre.

• 2:01:37Speaker 03

  So I think that the, the Faraday cage that was used during these channeling sessions was lined with copper.

• 2:01:45Speaker 03

  So what's that about?

• 2:01:48Speaker 04

  That, that's interesting.

• 2:01:50Danny Jones?

  Copper's weird, huh?

• 2:01:51Speaker 04

  It's a great insulator. Basically, not much can get through.

• 2:01:55Danny Jones?

  All right.

• 2:01:56Speaker 04

  All our wires are made of copper too.

• 2:01:58Speaker 03

  I think you guys definitely got to.

• 2:02:00Danny Jones?

  Copper.

• 2:02:02Speaker 03

  Wear copper clothes.

• 2:02:03Speaker 04

  Line your whole, line your whole studio with copper, Ed.

• 2:02:07Speaker 03

  You definitely got to build a Faraday cage in here.

• 2:02:09Danny Jones?

  That would be cool, but I don't know the logistics of doing that. Is there any, is there any downside other than the price of turning this into a Faraday cage?

• 2:02:18Speaker 03

  I don't know. Well, you could just build one out there, like a freestanding one.

• 2:02:21Speaker 04

  Well, no one, so no one's cellphone will work in here. They don't have to turn them off anymore. That's cool.

• 2:02:26Danny Jones?

  Right. That's very cool.

• 2:02:28Speaker 03

  There's a guy out there who I got connected with who's trying to replicate a lot of the Faraday cage GSP experiments. And he was wanting to see. Some of the early research Buharach did in his documents because he was, he was one of these guys I was connected with Skywatcher. You know, the whole Skywatcher thing. It was popular. It kind of faded out. It was like last year, the psionic assets.

• 2:02:53Danny Jones?

  Oh, yes. Yes, I remember that.

• 2:02:54Speaker 03

  It was a guy involved with that and he was very interested in the Faraday cage stuff and he was like, I want to look at the original design of Buharach's Faraday cage because I, and apparently he had money. He's like, I want to replicate this and try to do these experiments and I don't know where it went, but um, he was very serious about it. So.

• 2:03:14Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:03:16Speaker 03

  Cause that's what's interesting too. I mean, just, you know, a lot of people, you don't see people doing these kinds of experiments anymore, you know? Psychic kids.

• 2:03:26Speaker 04

  The whole principle of a Faraday cage isn't all that complicated. All you just need is metal casing and if, if something is totally encased in metal, nothing will get through. And copper is really good, is really a good metal to use for it.

• 2:03:40Danny Jones?

  I would love to see a Faraday cage sensory deprivation tank all in one. What would that, that would probably fucking teleport your ass to another dimension.

• 2:03:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:03:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I wonder if anyone's ever done that, bro. And then combine that with like, you know, some psychedelic mushrooms or something or even marijuana, I'm sure would be nuts.

• 2:04:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Cause John Lilly was, he invented the sensory deprivation tank, I think, right?

• 2:04:08Speaker 03

  Really?

• 2:04:09Danny Jones?

  There's a whole documentary about that.

• 2:04:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, a friend of mine did one of those for the first time recently. He was saying it was just mind blowing.

• 2:04:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:16Speaker 03

  The sensory deprivation thing. Never done it.

• 2:04:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I've never done it either, but I would be super, I would certainly be interested in it for sure.

• 2:04:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:26Danny Jones?

  Um, yeah. And so.

• 2:04:30Danny Jones?

  In the Fair Day Cage channeling sessions,

• 2:04:36Danny Jones?

  I don't remember if I asked you this already, but like, how much were psychedelics incorporated into those, if ever? Never?

• 2:04:45Speaker 04

  Maybe. I mean, obviously, people that showed up on my dad's house were using marijuana. I mean,

• 2:04:50Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Popular.

• 2:04:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, very popular in the time. And my dad was opposed to it all. And, but, yeah, I'm sure it's been used. And of course, you know, talk about the mushroom.

• 2:05:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:05:05Speaker 04

  And, you know, here's the book.

• 2:05:07Danny Jones?

  And wasn't there somebody involved in all of this that was connected to Bell Laboratories or something?

• 2:05:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, Arthur Young.

• 2:05:14Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:05:14Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:05:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:05:15Danny Jones?

  What was his connection?

• 2:05:17Speaker 03

  He was part of the Roundtable Foundation in the early 50s.

• 2:05:21Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:05:22Speaker 03

  So he was there at the lab a lot, and he was part of the early experiments. He was sitting in on a lot of the sessions. But, you know, to go back to the whole origin of the nine and the conspiracies, Arthur Young, he was married to,

• 2:05:42Speaker 03

  you might have to look this up, Steve, because I don't, I'm not sure I'm correct. He was married to Ruth Forbes Payne, who was the woman who Lee Harvey Oswald was living at her house. And he has some very bizarre connection to-

• 2:05:57Danny Jones?

  Oh, I remember we talked about this.

• 2:05:58Speaker 03

  Lee Harvey Oswald. And so people think, oh, you know, this is somehow tied into the JFK assassination and crazy stuff. But who, but yeah, Young was married to-

• 2:06:09Danny Jones?

  This is not in the film, this connection, right?

• 2:06:12Speaker 03

  No. Lavenda, Peter Lavenda, that author-

• 2:06:14Danny Jones?

  He told me this.

• 2:06:15Speaker 03

  He writes tons of stuff about this.

• 2:06:17Danny Jones?

  I was like, wondering, I'm like, this feels like deja vu. I remember Peter Lavenda told me this story.

• 2:06:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. And so Young was connected to somebody who was extremely connected to Lee Harvey Oswald. And so there's that whole thing. But no, he was just like a new age kind of researcher, who he invented the Bell helicopter, very connected guy. He went on to start this consciousness research society in Berkeley and everything. But he was involved very early on. In fact, in some of those early channeling tapes with- Dr. Vinod, you can hear him asking questions.

• 2:06:50Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 2:06:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06:51Speaker 04

  Okay, I didn't know that.

• 2:06:52Danny Jones?

  And isn't there some sort of connection with all of this and this, uh, the Montauk thing? My Montauk, New York or something?

• 2:07:00Speaker 03

  Well, I, yeah, I guess like people, yeah, so this, you know, the Stranger Things, the show is apparently based off the Montauk program or Montauk project, which is Montauk, New York, Long Island. And apparently there was some facility there that was some government facility that was doing research with kids and psychic kids and teleportation and the whole Philadelphia experiment and teleporting. I mean, Tesla had something to do with that, right? The teleporting the ship. Did you hear that story? There's so much about-

• 2:07:37Speaker 04

  I'm not sure if Tesla was actually involved with that, but it was-

• 2:07:40Speaker 03

  Based maybe on something he-

• 2:07:42Danny Jones?

  Annie Jacobson writes about in her phenomena book about the Philadelphia experiment, how they were doing crazy tests on sailors.

• 2:07:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, that's what it was.

• 2:07:51Danny Jones?

  Like shooting them with directed energy weapons.

• 2:07:53Speaker 04

  I really have to go to the-

• 2:07:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we'll be right back.

• 2:07:56Speaker 03

  So when I was trying to make this film, you know, one of my first thoughts was, okay, let's try to get a hold of these space kids.

• 2:08:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:08:05Speaker 03

  Cause you know, at the time in the seventies, they were teenagers, but it was actually difficult. I mean, so Heidi was one of like 10, because in one of Parch's notebooks, he had a list of all the people who were there at the time. So I did basically just went through and was like, okay, Google, Facebook, trying to find people, but only a few of them were willing to, to talk, really.

• 2:08:29Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:08:30Speaker 03

  A reason the film actually took so long is that it really took a while to earn the trust of some of these space kids, because you know, they haven't come out before to tell this story. They've never been public.

• 2:08:44Danny Jones?

  Was there anyone that you really wanted to talk on film that you couldn't get?

• 2:08:50Speaker 03

  Yes. This woman Sharon, which is a good transition. This woman, so one of the space kids. So this woman is one of the space kids that was willing to talk and she's in the films. She's very nice. She was actually at the house during the fire. She had to jump, climb out the window and climb down the, on the roof. And so she had quite an experience there. But there was one space kid Sharon who, um, if you recall, when we, when we talked, I was kind of hesitant to bring up a certain name of one of the space kids because she was so involved and secretive and all this. But it's this woman Sharon who has changed her name many times.

• 2:09:34Speaker 03

  I think back then it was Sharon Jacobson, but I know at one point she went by McCann, right?

• 2:09:39Speaker 04

  Her maiden name is McCann.

• 2:09:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:41Speaker 04

  And then she married a guy called Jacobson.

• 2:09:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:44Speaker 04

  Jacobson, yeah.

• 2:09:46Speaker 03

  Yeah. So she was one of the space kids who was very involved. There's a lot of pictures of her. A lot of the channeling tapes is her. It's her voice. It's her doing the channeling.

• 2:09:56Speaker 04

  Really?

• 2:09:57Speaker 03

  And so many people, and you can, I mean, you knew her, but the, the point is a lot of people involved back then, the space kids and some of the scientists, like they thought that she was the equivalent of, you know, 11 from Stranger Things, you know, this like very talented, legitimate, real psychic who could do things, who could bring in information. So after a certain year, I don't know, 76 or something, she just disappeared. And a lot of people around, I mean, you can comment, um, were like, we have no idea what happened to her. We don't know where she went. We've never been able to talk to her. I went to great lengths to try to find this woman. I mean, literally.

• 2:10:42Speaker 03

  Hiring a P I basically at one point, because she's so important, because she's on so many tapes. She was so involved. And I was like, if there's one person to get to talk about this story, to talk about what was really going on, it'd be her. And she's completely mysterious. I've never, no one's ever been able to contact her. Um, so that's one of the people that like, it'd be so interesting if she saw this film and saw this or whatever and came out of the woodworks.

• 2:11:13Speaker 04

  Yes, Ron, if you, if you're watching this, come on.

• 2:11:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:17Speaker 04

  You know.

• 2:11:17Speaker 03

  Well, you met her?

• 2:11:18Speaker 04

  He. Oh, yeah, yeah. I knew her very well. What was she like? What was so special about her? I think basically what was special about her is what she channeled. I mean, apart from that, she was just a, uh, a woman with a child and I would go, uh, shopping with her, you know? But in the channeling and her channeling, she was, as you say, apparently, uh, she had all this scientific information that would, would be channeled through her. That's what made her special.

• 2:11:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, she was the one who was able to bring through this very complex physics and apparently, for whatever reason, the other space kids couldn't. And she could. She was the only one who in trance in the Faraday cage would bring through very, very advanced information. And so he, Puharich, was really like leaning on her a lot to do a lot of these sessions. And then there's stories that she.

• 2:12:12Speaker 04

  How old was she at the time? Late twenties.

• 2:12:16Speaker 03

  Late twenty, mid, late twenties. But then there's stories, I don't know if you know any truth to this, that apparently due to the intensity of the channeling and the session, she had some sort of.

• 2:12:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was there.

• 2:12:27Speaker 03

  Manic break or something.

• 2:12:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, she totally fell apart. We had to rush her to the hospital. What? Yeah. There was talk about negative energy being influenced and then we were doing a session. There was a lot of us gathered around and she fell apart and my father was a medical doctor, but he rushed her to the hospital because she was dying, basically. Yeah, I don't know why.

• 2:12:54Speaker 03

  Well, there's this idea that when somebody, so this other channel, Phyllis, the older woman that he worked with a lot, there's this idea that when you get into the state to channel your body, you know, it's the typical, your body's being taken over by another entity. And basically you don't have control over your body or your functions because it's being controlled by an outside entity. So there's stories of this other woman too, having similar, I don't know if there's anything that bad, but she would have incidents where she would, you know, collapse or needed medical attention because she wasn't in control of her, of her body while doing these sessions.

• 2:13:33Speaker 03

  So Sharon, yeah, she's one of the, um, the people that I was like, man, I wish she would have talked, but at the same time it leaves this mystery now to this story of there's this one space kid who was the best of them all, who was just dropped off the face of the earth, who, and everyone, very normal, you know, sane people who knew her or who were around, every one of them was like, yeah, I have no idea what happened to her. Really strange. She just kind of- How many people did you try to, did you talk to that knew her? Several. So, yeah, several. One of the guys in the film, this guy Leon Berg, he was a guy from London and he got involved and he was just sort of a helper. He wasn't

• 2:14:16Speaker 03

  really a psychic or anything, but he knew her very well and he was like, I'm going to try to find her for you. And it was really creepy. We did like the classic thing where we found this address on Google Earth that came up on, on one of these sites as her address and we go to it on Google Earth and it's just this like ramshackle, you know, how empty house and there's, you know, it's basically rundown and all her other addresses didn't come up with anything. So it's, it's weird. I mean, I don't know what to say other than maybe she just wanted to distance herself and there's no, nothing weird about it, but it does seem like she's making a very serious effort to not be-

• 2:14:57Speaker 03

  discovered or not be looked up. So she's the one that I was like, man, that would be cool, but.

• 2:15:04Danny Jones?

  Are there any photos of her anywhere?

• 2:15:05Speaker 03

  Many, they're in the film, yeah. She had blonde hair, she's very pretty.

• 2:15:08Danny Jones?

  Can you find them, Steve?

• 2:15:10Speaker 03

  I don't, they wouldn't come up on Google, there's nothing.

• 2:15:12Danny Jones?

  Oh, no, they're only in your movie.

• 2:15:14Speaker 03

  Can't find anything on her, literally.

• 2:15:16Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:15:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. Even this like P I. I mean, I don't know if it's like legal to talk about if what a P I, but I don't. He even he was like, yeah, I don't, I'm not coming up with anything here. But there's nothing that would indicate that she passed away because, you know, back then she was young. I mean, it's not like now she would be really old. She'd still be.

• 2:15:35Danny Jones?

  So she was in her twenties and what year, what year would that have been?

• 2:15:39Speaker 03

  Mid, mid to late seventies. Yeah.

• 2:15:42Danny Jones?

  Or what decade, rather?

• 2:15:44Speaker 03

  Um, seventies, mid to late seventies.

• 2:15:46Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 2:15:48Speaker 03

  So that's, that's a thing and um. Yeah, I don't, I don't know what.

• 2:15:55Danny Jones?

  So when she went to the hospital, what ended up happening, do you know, do you remember?

• 2:15:59Speaker 04

  Well, they saved her, I mean, obviously.

• 2:16:01Danny Jones?

  And she was about to die?

• 2:16:03Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, my father couldn't, couldn't get her vitals back, so.

• 2:16:07Danny Jones?

  Holy shit.

• 2:16:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was, it was a real panic. I remember that well. It was a real panic. So, yeah, but you know, there's, there's, there was a bunch of other space kids were, that were interesting as well. Interesting people, interesting abilities.

• 2:16:23Speaker 03

  Well, that goes back to the like, so you're gonna, you're gonna hoax, you know, almost dying here. You know, so there's so many things that happened in this story. That, you know, once you're kind of skeptical, all of a sudden you're like, well, that's a pretty serious event to kind of just. Have been, you know, made up. But it all goes back to this idea that the body's being taken over. Kind of like an exorcism thing, I guess. Because it's not you and you're channeling a different, different entity and so forth, so. So she's somebody who, yeah, it'd be really interesting if she came out after all this, but who knows?

• 2:17:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, like if they're.

• 2:17:05Speaker 03

  You could have her on.

• 2:17:06Danny Jones?

  If they're channeling it like.

• 2:17:09Danny Jones?

  I guess they're they're channeling these. So the nine are what they were channeling?

• 2:17:13Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:17:14Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:17:15Speaker 04

  Well, Siobhan wasn't channeling the nine. She was channeling some other entity.

• 2:17:20Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, there was different entities all the time that would sort of come through. That had various names that were very kind of sci fi sounding. But if I'm not mistaken, the nine were kind of the the they were above everything.

• 2:17:36Speaker 04

  Head honchos.

• 2:17:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. So even if it was a different entity, it was still all connected.

• 2:17:41Danny Jones?

  Above the Rothschilds?

• 2:17:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:17:42Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:17:44Speaker 04

  That's crazy. They called me Tesla. They would always. No, seriously. It said I was Nikola Tesla in my past lifetime.

• 2:17:50Danny Jones?

  I believe it.

• 2:17:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, I rejected it.

• 2:17:53Danny Jones?

  My my son, my my oldest son, who's six, has a girl in his class that says she vividly remembers her past life. She was a dog and she knows the name of the dog. I can't remember the name of the dog.

• 2:18:09Speaker 04

  Well, poor dog.

• 2:18:13Danny Jones?

  She came back as a human.

• 2:18:14Speaker 04

  Came back to you and had such a good life.

• 2:18:17Speaker 03

  I've often thought of giving my I have a two year old daughter and giving her a spoon and, you know, seeing if she could bend it somehow.

• 2:18:24Danny Jones?

  Do you imagine? She starts bending it?

• 2:18:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:18:27Danny Jones?

  What the fuck would you do?

• 2:18:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly. It's a good question. What would you do?

• 2:18:33Speaker 03

  No, the thing I wanted to mention, though, is the so the Montauk Project.

• 2:18:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:37Speaker 03

  So the whole myth behind that is that there was apparently this government facility in Montauk, Long Island, where they were experimenting with every weird thing you could imagine, teleportation,

• 2:18:51Speaker 03

  time travel devices, but but they were apparently doing research on kids there, psychic kids.

• 2:18:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:58Speaker 03

  And that was apparently the basis behind Stranger Things, the show.

• 2:19:01Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:19:02Speaker 03

  And there's some guy who claimed to have it's kind of like Lazar and S4. There's this guy. His name's Preston Nichols. You can look him up.

• 2:19:11Danny Jones?

  Preston Nichols?

• 2:19:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, N I C H O L S. He claimed to have worked there. So he's very much like Lazar. He's kind of came out and he's like, I worked at this place. I know what was going on. I witnessed a time travel. But, you know, he's it's just like Lazar. People are all over him. They think he's he's full of shit and stuff, but. That was the basis of Stranger Things, but from what I understand, like, there's really no evidence that this Montauk facility was real. Like, I think it's just all... Well, there was a facility there, for sure. It's like a building. It's like, you can actually go and see it, but there's really no evidence, as far as I understand, that there was actually

• 2:19:51Speaker 03

  this top-secret program happening there. Whereas, the Roundtable Foundation that Puharich ran was a very real place where they actually were doing psychic experiments on kids as far back as the 50s, because some of the stuff in his records, which we discovered, was that even back in the 50s, it was the Air Force Office of Scientific Research that gave him a grant to do research with these two twins that were apparently psychic. And it was, you know, their father said, "My two daughters are psychic." It's kind of like the telepathy tapes kind of stuff. "They can read my mind. They know what I'm thinking.

• 2:20:31Speaker 03

  They're totally accurate." So, the Air Force Office of Scientific Intelligence, they came to the Roundtable Lab and funded, like, research with these two girls. And this was, like, in the 50s.

• 2:20:45Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 2:20:46Speaker 03

  And then there was another instance where it was another young person that came there as well and was studied. And so, that's a place where this actually did happen. I mean, there's documented proof.

• 2:20:56Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:20:57Speaker 03

  Whereas, I think the Montauk thing, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure there's never really been anything that proves like that. There was actually that stuff happening there.

• 2:21:06Danny Jones?

  What is your take on the whole telepathy tapes stuff? Both of you? Have you...

• 2:21:13Speaker 03

  Do you know about it?

• 2:21:13Danny Jones?

  Are you familiar with the telepathy tapes? No. It's these children, these non-verbal autistic children who are able to communicate telepathically, and there's like a whole podcast about it. Yeah.

• 2:21:23Speaker 03

  It became very popular. I listened to it and...

• 2:21:28Speaker 03

  I think that it's, I think there's something there. I mean, I think unfortunately, like all of this stuff, what Puharich dealt with decades ago and what is still happening is just the onslaught of skeptics.

• 2:21:44Danny Jones?

  Beyond telepathy.

• 2:21:45Speaker 04

  That's his first book.

• 2:21:46Danny Jones?

  That's his first book?

• 2:21:47Speaker 04

  And it's also been republished recently.

• 2:21:50Speaker 03

  They reference that in the telepathy tapes a bunch in the first couple of episodes.

• 2:21:53Danny Jones?

  Do they really?

• 2:21:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:21:54Speaker 04

  That's how my dad, that's how it all started, you know, in researching people that were able to do telepathy. And the interesting about telepathy is of course that you always need

• 2:22:04Danny Jones?

  Oh Mitch Horowitz.

• 2:22:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, he wrote the introduction. He's cool. Well Danny, I meant to say, you know, so my answer to that is I do tend to think that there's some really interesting information that points to that being legitimate, these autistic kids who can somehow communicate non-verbally. But then you've got, you know, what was it, the mother of one of that, she, she, you were, you spoke to her with the test and everything and I, and I think there's situations like that that seem very

• 2:22:38Danny Jones?

  Suspicious.

• 2:22:39Speaker 03

  Suspicious and very easily debunked and like we got into earlier, just people who are kind of getting on that bandwagon.

• 2:22:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:47Speaker 03

  But, and there was a good interview you did with her.

• 2:22:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and there's, there's even, you know, going back to what I said earlier about those mentalist folks, Oz Perelman.

• 2:22:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:22:57Danny Jones?

  Said that he can, he can do any of the stuff that those telepathy tape kids are doing.

• 2:23:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:02Danny Jones?

  He said he can do it, demonstrate it very easily. And he said that, and one of my, my problem with the telepathy tapes is they won't entertain that. They won't entertain a stage magician going in and observing

• 2:23:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:23:17Danny Jones?

  That thing happen because their excuse, or whatever, that what they say is, is that that will throw off the energy in the room and then they won't be able to perform their experiments.

• 2:23:27Speaker 03

  Well, that's the classic.

• 2:23:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's my frustration with the whole telepathy tape thing.

• 2:23:32Speaker 03

  No, it was very, as a story and as a podcast, it was very compelling to listen to. But yeah, I think when it comes to that, okay, let's, let's have somebody challenge this. And if you're not willing or able to do that, I mean,

• 2:23:44Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:23:45Speaker 03

  Obviously people are going to jump all over it. So I don't know. I mean, to me, it, it, some of this stuff is pretty convincing, but I don't, I don't know. There's a documentary coming out about it they made.

• 2:23:57Speaker 04

  Really?

• 2:23:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, it's coming out.

• 2:23:59Speaker 04

  Interesting.

• 2:24:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, so maybe that will provide further evidence of this, but I know what you mean. There's been multiple things I've heard that they've been challenged to do certain things and they just sort of refuse to do it. So, um, yeah, I don't know. I've never witnessed it, you know, firsthand myself. So, you know, a big part of the show is they have like the camera crew and the people who are working with these kids are all very skeptical and pretty much all of them come out being like.

• 2:24:32Speaker 04

  What's the idea behind? Cause I don't, I don't know what's.

• 2:24:34Speaker 03

  Well, it's basically this, this scientist who actually know is very fond of your dad, Buhar, Diane Powell. I've talked.

• 2:24:42Speaker 04

  I've had her on. Yeah.

• 2:24:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:43Speaker 04

  She's great.

• 2:24:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's super interesting, really nice woman. She's a, she's a, you know, a scientist who got very interested in ESP and everything, but she had this, I don't know if it was her or the host of the podcast, but there's this theory that these non-verbal autistic kids have a way of communicating with not only each other, but with their parent or caretaker that doesn't involve, you know, speaking as they can't speak and they basically chalked it up to like they're telepathic and they can communicate. So there's this thing called the hill that they talk about in the show where all of it's kind of like a mind link where all these kids meet telepathically in this area and some other realm and they're

• 2:25:27Speaker 03

  able to communicate with each other there.

• 2:25:30Danny Jones?

  Like some sort of interdimensional playground where all these people, all these telepathic autistic children go meet up in another dimension somewhere mentally.

• 2:25:39Speaker 04

  Yeah. So what's the output? How do you measure that? Or how do you read that?

• 2:25:43Danny Jones?

  So they, what they do, they do experiments during the telepathy tapes interviews and they, they filmed it. They have camera people filming it where like, um, they put the kid in one room or I don't, I don't know if they're in the same rooms or if they're in different rooms, but they basically, they, they show the kid some words or pictures or whatever, or no, they show the parent the pictures or the words or whatever. And then the kid is somehow able to like repeat it.

• 2:26:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:05Danny Jones?

  Exactly what the parent is seeing. But the kids read the parent's mind, not the other way around. The parents can't read the kids' minds.

• 2:26:10Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:26:11Speaker 03

  So they're looking at a board that will say a certain word and the parent's back is turned and you're the kid and they have no way of seeing it and they'll be able to, you know, know the word.

• 2:26:22Speaker 04

  But they can't talk.

• 2:26:23Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:26:24Speaker 04

  So what do they do? Write it down?

• 2:26:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, they have that like a tablet or something, right?

• 2:26:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they have a tablet where they can like type or something. I don't know how they do it.

• 2:26:32Speaker 03

  But there's all these theories that the the parent is signaling them somehow, or the the parent is touching them in a way that's.

• 2:26:40Danny Jones?

  Well, one of the things that really kind of made me more confused about the whole thing was when I had Dahlia, one of the mothers of one of the kids on the show. And she was saying that her daughter was talking about like meeting Jesus or something. Or like talking about biblical characters and angels and stuff in this other realm.

• 2:27:08Danny Jones?

  And that's where I'm like, you know, these people are predisposed to this because they were brought up in this religious sort of mind frame, right? That was kind of like their family history. So like, how much of that is bleeding into what this kid is saying? Or, you know?

• 2:27:27Speaker 04

  I always find that really interesting with near death experiences. That it seems, I mean, do you believe that that's true?

• 2:27:34Danny Jones?

  I believe that's true. A hundred percent. I believe that's true.

• 2:27:36Speaker 04

  I do too, but it seems like people that are brought up in a certain religion, they will always find those kind of images.

• 2:27:44Danny Jones?

  Yes, that's true. That's true.

• 2:27:46Speaker 04

  So that's that, you know, I always find that kind of interesting that there's some sort of projection. So you see something, and it's like in dreams, you see, you feel something. But you make a projection yourself of what you're seeing. You know, the way you were brought up or the way you. So it's always a projection of your own, you know?

• 2:28:07Danny Jones?

  Of your own beliefs.

• 2:28:08Speaker 04

  Of your own belief. There's a certain feeling that you get from something. But you make the picture yourself. Now, it's like in dreams. In dreams, there's feelings going all over the place. Your mind just

• 2:28:20Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:28:21Speaker 04

  makes the images.

• 2:28:22Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 2:28:22Speaker 04

  ties them together and makes it into some kind of soup that nobody really understands. It's interesting how that works.

• 2:28:28Danny Jones?

  It is very interesting how that works. Yeah.

• 2:28:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28:32Danny Jones?

  So. Something going on there with the subconscious mind. Somehow percolating up through all this stuff, even psychedelic trips too. I've heard similar stories. Yeah.

• 2:28:45Speaker 03

  I've never done that. I'm kind of like scared to do a ayahuasca.

• 2:28:50Danny Jones?

  Are you? Do DMT. It's only five minutes. It's the same thing, but it doesn't last for hours.

• 2:28:56Speaker 03

  I've done mushrooms many times and I've told a lot of people I've had extremely profound. You know.

• 2:29:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:04Speaker 03

  On mushrooms, like really life changing, promotional.

• 2:29:07Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:29:09Speaker 03

  And, and I haven't done it in many years, but.

• 2:29:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:12Speaker 03

  It's kind of, you can hear a lot of people talk about like, for me, it's like, okay, I, I got there already. What, what, what more do I need to take to like, I already kind of experienced that and.

• 2:29:22Danny Jones?

  Totally.

• 2:29:23Speaker 03

  But I don't know. I'm not like opposed to the ayahuasca and all that stuff, DMT. I just, I'm kind of like paranoid, I guess.

• 2:29:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's scary. It's definitely scary.

• 2:29:33Speaker 03

  You've done it.

• 2:29:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I've done DMT, not ayahuasca. What happened?

• 2:29:37Speaker 03

  Did you see elves and?

• 2:29:40Danny Jones?

  The first time I saw little aliens in front of me doing ballet in circles.

• 2:29:49Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:29:49Danny Jones?

  That's cute. And, and one of the most recent times I had a, like a full on conversation with a tree in my backyard.

• 2:29:57Speaker 03

  What is a tree?

• 2:29:58Danny Jones?

  And it was like, I forget. So it's like, it slips away from you.

• 2:30:04Danny Jones?

  After a while, like it's like, so like right after you do it, you have to immediately do a voice memo. Of like everything that's running through your mind right then. And I did that. And it was like something to the effect of like.

• 2:30:17Danny Jones?

  Like humans are only like temporary, temporary passers by in like the world or whatever. And the trees and like everyone, like the trees know way more than we, we can ever know. And like something about like the nature and like, like the, what's, what's here on earth and what has been here, like the plants and the animals and. Some sort of like, some sort of like universal consciousness that the trees are all tapped into and they see everything. And we can't even comprehend like the reality and we're only temporary and like they were here before us and they're going to be here after us. And like, yeah, it was my, it was kind of like, I couldn't stop thinking about it for like a week after. It was pretty wild.

• 2:31:02Speaker 03

  I have a question, like when you do DMT like that, when, do you just like come out of it? Like, how does that, like, do you just kind of like come back?

• 2:31:11Danny Jones?

  And just, yeah, it just sort of like, it just gradually wears off over a couple of minutes. It lasts maybe 10 minutes max.

• 2:31:19Danny Jones?

  But it's like, it's like all of a sudden, it's just like, you're blasted in to like another reality. It feels like the first time I did it, that's the best way I could describe what dying would probably be like. Cause I feel like my soul sort of ejected out the top of my head. And I was just like shuttling through like a highway of light, like, like arteries.

• 2:31:39Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 2:31:39Danny Jones?

  Like arteries made of light and like fractals and things like that. And like, I, I literally felt my physical body being left behind. And like everything I know, every possession I have, every person I've ever met, just like leaving that all behind and like entering a new dimension. With, that was just my soul, like completely disconnected from physical reality. And, uh, yeah, it was bonkers, dude. Every, every, every time I've done it, it's been a different experience.

• 2:32:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, what's really interesting to me is you had him on, right? Andrew Gallimore?

• 2:32:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:32:13Speaker 03

  He's super interesting. He does a bunch of research about this idea that like, whenever you take DMT or enter this other dimension and people can access that dimension and, and.

• 2:32:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he does a extended state DMT where he puts people on IV drips of it so he can stay there for longer.

• 2:32:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:31Danny Jones?

  And like, try to like map out whatever that realm is.

• 2:32:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:32:36Speaker 04

  I did it once and I, uh, to my disappointment, I just wound up in this dome, pure geometric form. You know, the, the six, uh, what is it called? The six corner shape? And that was it. And I was stuck there and that's all I saw. And when I opened my eyes, I was still like half in there. But that was it. Pure geometr- and tha- that I found so weird. That was the least thing I would expect.

• 2:33:02Danny Jones?

  One of the craziest things for me too was this, the audio. Like my, like the, their sound. It's not just visual hallucinations, it's like this

• 2:33:14Danny Jones?

  type sound that just takes over. It's like this weird, weird thing. Unexplainable.

• 2:33:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, now I want to try it, I guess.

• 2:33:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man.

• 2:33:23Speaker 04

  You're gonna have to do it someday.

• 2:33:25Speaker 03

  You're young.

• 2:33:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Well, cool, man. Thank you guys for doing this. This has been fascinating conversation.

• 2:33:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:33:33Danny Jones?

  Tell people about your documentary.

• 2:33:35Speaker 03

  Mind Traveler. It's called Mind Traveler. It's gonna be out this summer. And you can buy it, you can rent it, Amazon, iTunes, et cetera. And, yeah, we're gonna have a trailer done to definitely, for sure, like, this week. So we can, we can get that to you.

• 2:33:53Danny Jones?

  Hell, yeah.

• 2:33:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, Mind Traveler.

• 2:33:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, a long time coming. Very excited about it.

• 2:34:00Danny Jones?

  Fantastic documentary, man. Very well done.

• 2:34:03Speaker 03

  Thank you very much.

• 2:34:03Danny Jones?

  Big fan.

• 2:34:05Speaker 03

  Thanks, man.

• 2:34:06Danny Jones?

  Cool. All right, Andy, thank you. This has been fun.

• 2:34:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, welcome. All right, guys, good to be here.

• 2:34:12Speaker 03

  Good.

• 2:34:13Danny Jones?

  Good night, world.

• 2:34:14Speaker 06

  Hello, I'm Chris Richards, general manager at Safr Volkswagen Richmond. I'm here to announce an exciting new program that I want you to listen to. Here's my friend Happy.

• 2:34:23Speaker 07

  Hi, I'm Happy Harry Turner, special finance manager at saffordcredit.com. If you're in an open Chapter 13 bankruptcy, recently filed a Chapter 7, or you've been turned down because of credit challenges, don't give up. For nearly 30 years, I've helped people get reliable transportation when others said no. Visit saffordcredit.com. Remember, I'm not happy unless you are.

• 2:34:43Speaker 01

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.