MFM Minisode 421

This week’s hometowns include uncovering a family secret and drama at a wedding.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Karen Kilgariff?

  This is exactly right.

• 0:06Georgia Hardstark?

  In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way.

• 0:10Karen Kilgariff?

  When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, that's when the rubber hits the road.

• 0:16Georgia Hardstark?

  And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it.

• 0:23Karen Kilgariff?

  This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences.

• 0:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now.

• 0:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Goodbye.

• 0:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Vacation planning should feel like a breeze, not a deep dive into countless travel sites searching for the best deal.

• 0:46Georgia Hardstark?

  With CheapCaribbean's Budget Beach Finder, you can search every destination and every date all in one search.

• 0:52Karen Kilgariff?

  You'll save time and money with the Budget Beach Finder.

• 0:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Say goodbye to endless scrolling and tab hopping and hello to budget beach bliss at your fingertips.

• 1:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to cheapcaribbean.com to try out the Budget Beach Finder and see just how stress-free vacation planning should be.

• 1:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 1:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello and welcome.

• 1:26Georgia Hardstark?

  To my favorite murder.

• 1:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh, that's George, the mini-soad.

• 1:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Yes. I forgot what we did. Hometown, mini, that's Karen, that's Georgia.

• 1:35Karen Kilgariff?

  It, you know, it's like, should we run you through it again? We're gonna start at the beginning, we're gonna read, we'll come to the end.

• 1:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Is this our first video of the hometown? In studio, I mean.

• 1:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Is it?

• 1:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Off Zoom.

• 1:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Take to your camera.

• 1:49Georgia Hardstark?

  I wore something.

• 1:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Is it?

• 1:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Could it be?

• 1:51Karen Kilgariff?

  I wonder.

• 1:52Georgia Hardstark?

  I wore something special for the occasion.

• 1:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 1:57Karen Kilgariff?

  It's Mimi.

• 1:57Georgia Hardstark?

  It's Mimi's shirt.

• 1:59Karen Kilgariff?

  It's Mimi.

• 2:00Georgia Hardstark?

  It's Mimi and it says, "Bad bitch."

• 2:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Bad bitch Mimi.

• 2:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Wait, have you worn that one before?

• 2:06Georgia Hardstark?

  I haven't, I've worn the do-, uh, the cookie one. All right.

• 2:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you want to go first?

• 2:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure. Hardcore classic hometown. This is called, "My Dad Was A Detective In The Crimes Against Persons Unit. Classic Hometown With Family Connection." Three-minute read.

• 2:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 2:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey, gang. I'm a day three listener, but an OG murderino, and I adore you all. Let's jump in. In my hometown of Fort Collins, Colorado, my dad was a detective in the Crimes Against Persons Unit. Murders, kidnapping, assaults, you name it, he responded to it. I could write you a lot of emails. I recently realized I've been professionally interrogated my whole life. But he also let me read old case files in middle school, so there were perks too. Onto the story. Right? Late at night on September 9th, 1998, the police were called about a domestic dispute involving 23-year-old Nicole Holm and her boyfriend. Her boyfriend was arrested for an outstanding traffic violation. Nicole didn't have a working phone and went knocking on doors at her apartment complex

• 3:04Georgia Hardstark?

  for a phone to contact help to bail her boyfriend out of jail. While doing so, Nicole encountered 25-year-old Tibbus Kenep. The two were seen together at a convenience store where Nicole may have gone for help. That evening, Nicole was found brutally attacked, sexually assaulted, stabbed and murdered in her apartment. Like, what an insane, just, series of events. While frantically fleeing the scene, Kenep was pulled over by, you guessed it, my dad.

• 3:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, wow.

• 3:34Georgia Hardstark?

  He had been called for backup as Kenep was acting suspicious and sweating profusely. There was a gold chain hanging out of his pocket. The police ran Kenep's ID and took a photo, but because Nicole's body had yet to be found, there was no crime to tie him to or known reason not to let him go.

• 3:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 3:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Kenep fled immediately and the trail went cold when his car was last found in New Mexico. As a prime suspect, he eventually appeared on an episode of America's Most Wanted. Fast forward nine months. A lady who employed Kenep at a pizzeria in a tiny town in Livingston, Guatemala, became suspicious of him, possibly because of the notable tattoo that spelled out "fear" on his knuckles. It was 1999, so though she struggled to find internet access, when she did, she did verify Keneff's identity on the FBI website and called the US Embassy in Guatemala. Like, what a badass.

• 4:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Just getting it all done.

• 4:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, she's like, if that guy's sketchy, let me fucking just take a couple steps and just verify.

• 4:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 4:33Georgia Hardstark?

  You know?

• 4:33Karen Kilgariff?

  And then run my business.

• 4:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, yeah. Although I can't find her name, I consider that woman a hero. According to my dad, Keneff had hitchhiked there, no air travel or official transportation. That is approximately a 45-hour drive.

• 4:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, wow.

• 4:48Georgia Hardstark?

  And it says, which in 2024 time is still 45 hours.

• 4:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 4:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Keneff was extradited back to Colorado. My dad was the co-lead investigator on the case at the time. With Keneff's DNA at the crime scene, graphic police interrogations, and the gold chain noted by the police during the traffic stop suspected to be Nicole's necklace, the self-described sicko was convicted of first-degree sexual assault and first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison without parole. He later died by suicide in prison. I appreciate you both more than you could know. I am currently a master's student studying clinical mental health counseling, and we need more strong voices like yours and advocates for therapy and mental health care. Nicole Holm was also studying psychology at my university when she was killed. I can only imagine the good she would have done in the field.

• 5:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Stay sexy, trust your gut, and check the FBI Most Wanted list. A.

• 5:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow, A. That was classic. Also, just like, how long did it say how long the trial went cold? Just for a little while, right?

• 5:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Wasn't like a...

• 5:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Thankfully.

• 5:52Karen Kilgariff?

  God.

• 5:52Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 5:53Karen Kilgariff?

  It happens so much.

• 5:54Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 5:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, here's my first one. It's MFM listener story. They gave it its own kind of little bucket to put it in. This is a listener story.

• 6:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. What do you call it? It's a listener's story.

• 6:08Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a listener's story. The time my dad lived in a serial killer's house.

• 6:12Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 6:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Hi, all. I had written the story a while back, but I realized I didn't fact check properly, and I wanted to give it another shot. Hope you enjoy it. If only, like, we were throwing things out because of fact checking. It's like, truly, you're just sitting in the middle of a very tall pile.

• 6:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, that's not it.

• 6:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't be upset. Okay, but I love the kind of like, that's a lot of self accountability, where it's just like, I'll take care of this.

• 6:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 6:35Karen Kilgariff?

  And look, it worked.

• 6:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it did.

• 6:37Karen Kilgariff?

  When my dad was in college in the 80s, he and a few of his friends rented an old house that was only $50 a month per person.

• 6:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 6:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Which in today's month, which is, in today's month, is worth roughly $200 a month. I think they meant math, but that's so, I love that.[49.3 Maybe they didn't. Still a major steal, if you ask me. Yes, insane. Apparently, every bedroom in this house had their own fireplace. What? Yeah. And the gas used for the kitchen stove had to be turned on by crawling underneath the house. Oh, my gosh. So microwaves only. I'm not sure how the mechanics of this process works, but this sounds like a hard pass. This house wasn't just any old house. This house was the childhood home of the notorious serial killer Pee Wee Gaskins.

• 7:25Karen Kilgariff?

  One of the worst. One of the, you can't even, like, you start to read about it, and he's like a torturer. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just truly dark, dark. Horrific. When my dad told me about his time living there, he remembered the neighbors telling stories about seeing Gaskins on the roof, hanging out by himself. My dad also remembers finding a large pile of shoes in the crawl space when turning on the stove. Shoes. Shoes in the crawl space be like... Large amount of anything is bad, but shoes is like definitely on that list. Hidden shoes. Yeah, why don't those people have their shoes anymore? Were they all different sizes? I thought they were. That's like that, remember the video of the guy that was a Blake? Yes. We need an update on that.

• 8:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 8:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. "I really hope they were just some old shoes left by him and his siblings, but my murdering O'Brain thinks some of these shoes might have belonged to Gaskin's victims." I think you're right. "Most true crime podcasts don't cover this case because of how gruesome his killings were, but I still wanted to share this wild connection with you all. Thank you for everything you do. I love how you normalize mental health and therapy, although my therapist might be worried about my true crime obsession sometimes. She's taken notes on some of the things that you ladies have opened about, have opened up about. You've got me through the pandemic, finding my life partner, and finishing my master's in data science."

• 8:45Georgia Hardstark?

  So smart.

• 8:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus H.

• 8:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Come on.

• 8:49Karen Kilgariff?

  "Stay sexy and maybe don't live in a serial killer's house, regardless of how cheap it is in this economy." Nicole, she or her?

• 8:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Data and science are two words that like I don't, wouldn't, don't cross my mind. And she's studying both of them.

• 9:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Both together. And they're going to help. That's like what the world is becoming is.

• 9:09Georgia Hardstark?

  The other red flag for me is that I don't think people should have personal fireplaces. I think there should be a community fireplace in the living room.

• 9:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 9:17Georgia Hardstark?

  But I don't trust anyone else with like a bedroom fireplace.

• 9:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Where they're burning their evidence? Yeah.

• 9:23Georgia Hardstark?

  No, but they're just like gonna put it out properly.

• 9:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, right.

• 9:26Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what I mean?

• 9:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 9:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Or like gonna fall asleep and forget that there's, I just don't trust personal fireplaces.

• 9:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Unless you live in a hotel like Eloise, there's no reason to have your own. The whole point of a fireplace is everyone gathers around in stairs together.

• 9:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 9:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Don't, yeah, don't go individual with fire.

• 9:42Georgia Hardstark?

  No. That's, it's a, it's a community thing that we can all remember.

• 9:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Please.

• 9:46Georgia Hardstark?

  In case someone forgets.

• 9:49Georgia Hardstark?

  "The holidays are coming, which means we'll all be spending more time away from home."

• 9:52Karen Kilgariff?

  "Whether you're visiting family or doing something actually fun, you want to know your home is protected while you're away."

• 9:58Georgia Hardstark?

  "That's why now is a good time to think about home security with SimpliSafe."

• 10:01Karen Kilgariff?

  "Unlike traditional security systems that alert you after a break-in starts, SimpliSafe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside." These days, you're worried about your house, you're out of town, and then something comes up and you get to look on your phone, and SimpliSafe is gonna- Show you not only the video of like, it's a raccoon at your front door, but also that they have staff that's sitting there, they already know. And if it was something different or worse, they would have already been on it.

• 10:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I really think that's invaluable peace of mind that just like relying on your neighbors, paying attention is not going to give you. We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer our listeners their biggest savings of the year. 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/mfm.

• 10:44Karen Kilgariff?

  That's simplisafe.com/mfm. And when you order, write in MFM at checkout and it tells them we sent you and it really helps the show.

• 10:52Georgia Hardstark?

  SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time.

• 10:55Karen Kilgariff?

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• 11:37Karen Kilgariff?

  And when you're ready to launch, use offer code MURDER to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Goodbye.

• 11:44Georgia Hardstark?

  The holidays are filled with moments that remind us who matters most. The friend who always picks up the phone.

• 11:50Karen Kilgariff?

  The family member who's stood by your side. The people who know your story and help shape it every day.

• 11:55Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why this season Pandora's Holiday Collection is all about celebrating the ones you know by heart with a gift that says it all.

• 12:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Because the best gifts don't just look beautiful, they mean something too. Discover meaningful jewelry designed to honor every connection.

• 12:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Choose engraved pieces that turn memories into keepsakes.

• 12:11Karen Kilgariff?

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• 12:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Each piece is thoughtfully crafted to help you express what can be difficult to put into words.

• 12:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether you're shopping for a partner, a parent, a best friend, or someone who's been there through it all, you'll find a gift that reflects everything they mean to you.

• 12:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Give a piece that says exactly what words can't.

• 12:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Pandora, more than a gift.

• 12:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Shop new styles in store or online at pandora.net.

• 12:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 12:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Accidentally uncovered my in-laws' family secret at my first Christmas with their family.

• 12:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Ooh.

• 12:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's get to it.

• 12:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 12:50Georgia Hardstark?

  I married into a pretty traditional and religious family. Our first year married, I decided to be creative and make my husband's grandmother a beautiful family tree. I got photos of everyone and tracked down dates of birth and wedding dates to put together the family tree. There were a few dates I wasn't sure of, like the date of my husband's grandparents' wedding. On Christmas Day, I was running around, asking relatives to fill in the missing date for me. Everyone seemed back and forth on the grandparents' wedding date. Was it 1969 or 1968? The confusing factor was that they were married in December. Everyone agreed it must have been December 1968 because my husband's father was born in July 1970, and babies aren't born at less than seven months, big and beautiful with

• 13:34Georgia Hardstark?

  no complications, especially in the 60s. Except, you know where this is going. Later that day, we found an actual newspaper clipping of their wedding announcement stating that they were indeed married December 1969, and my father-in-law was born July 1970. Everyone looked at each other with glances, saying, "Oh my gosh. It seems very likely that his grandmother was pregnant on their wedding day." My husband and I still talk about how I unknowingly uncovered a family secret. I laugh, like, just so nosy without knowing it.

• 14:07Karen Kilgariff?

  First holiday.

• 14:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Just fucking coming and shredding that pit. You know what I mean?

• 14:12Karen Kilgariff?

  It's me, the new element you have to deal with in this family.

• 14:14Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. It's just like, clear the dance floor, everyone.

• 14:17Karen Kilgariff?

  We're talking about it.

• 14:18Georgia Hardstark?

  I've got some fucking moves.

• 14:19Karen Kilgariff?

  There we go.

• 14:21Georgia Hardstark?

  My husband and I still talk about how I unknowingly uncovered a family secret just three months after joining his family. Because the math is just a little too close, if you ask us. If you're wondering what his grandmother thought about all of this, she played the "I'm just as surprised and confused as you" card, which is totally her right and pretty badass in its own way.

• 14:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm. Always do that.

• 14:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Play the confused grandma your entire life.

• 14:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Why not? Just keep saying "what" over and over. You'll just drive people insane.

• 14:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, don't get too much Botox here, because you always want to be furrowing your brows.

• 14:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Truly, realistically furrowing.

• 14:53Georgia Hardstark?

  I loved her since I never knew my own grandparents very well. She was a young widow and one time a real life cult leader tried to date slash marry her in the 80s, but that's a story for another time. Please send it.

• 15:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Such a good cliffhanger.

• 15:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Stay sexy and maybe toss out the newspaper evidence. Emily.

• 15:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Emily, that happened in my family, too. I don't want to be too specific, but we did that one day where we were just like, well, wait a second. And did the math and then we're just like, because it is.

• 15:23Georgia Hardstark?

  It's always religious families, too, that that happens in.

• 15:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 15:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Because like, we don't give a shit, you know?

• 15:28Karen Kilgariff?

  And actually, it happens so much that it's like, people should know. If that's a discovery, it should not be, no one should be like, what a dirty secret. Because it's like, probably 70% of marriages are like that.

• 15:39Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't bring it up, especially like in the 60s. I feel like that was just pretty par for the course.

• 15:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it was just you go and do the right thing. Yeah. Don't bring it up. Don't make a family tree about it. Don't run around from new relative to new relative.

• 15:54Karen Kilgariff?

  The subject line of this email is "That Time I Was a Nun." Karen, Georgia and the whole team. I was listening to Minnesota 419 and you asked for nun stories.

• 16:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 16:04Karen Kilgariff?

  When? It's just, and it just so happens, I was a nun.

• 16:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 16:09Karen Kilgariff?

  It's my favorite story to pull out at parties to surprise people, or if the conversation is getting a little boring, especially because most people wouldn't pin my outgoing tattooed F-word saying "true crime-loving self" as the nun type.

• 16:21Georgia Hardstark?

  So cool.

• 16:22Karen Kilgariff?

  I grew up very loosely Catholic. Shout out Karen, I love all your Catholic references.

• 16:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Meaning my parents were raised Catholic but didn't really practice, but sent me to Catholic schools. That's rough.

• 16:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 16:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Mixed in with that and some textbook childhood trauma, you know, alcoholic parents, divorce, severe parental mental illness, the kind that gets you lots of points on the ace scale and many healing years in therapy.

• 16:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Hi.

• 16:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Welcome. I ended up getting really involved in my charismatic new high school youth group. I could have done a lot of other things as a teenager to act out. Drugs, alcohol, boys. No, I chose high-control religion.

• 17:01Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, there's worse things.

• 17:04Karen Kilgariff?

  There is. I mean, but it's funny, because on the face, you think, well, at least you're being this.

• 17:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 17:10Karen Kilgariff?

  At least you're safe or something.

• 17:11Georgia Hardstark?

  But it's not.

• 17:13Karen Kilgariff?

  I got very active in the Catholic faith in a young faith group in the area, and it was all very consuming and in some ways, almost cult-like. Okay, so back to the nun part. Usually when I drop that information, I get a ton of questions. Could you have sex? Why did you go? Did you change your name? After years in youth groups and religious settings, I truly believed there was no higher calling than to, quote, "live my life for only Jesus," end quote. So I entered the convent at 21 years old.

• 17:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 17:42Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm 36 now, so this was pretty recently. I was only in my first year, and you typically don't cut your hair or change your name until the second or third year. So I just went by Sister Nicole. You also don't take vows until your second or third year, but you're learning about them and living by them already. So no, I did not have sex while I was in the convent. After about nine months, I decided to leave, which is fairly common in the first couple of years, as young women are figuring out if it's truly a good fit. It takes seven to 10 years total, depending on the order, to be a fully vowed religious sister in the Catholic Church.

• 18:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 18:15Karen Kilgariff?

  About 90% of my days were spent in silence, prayers, and work around the convent. Meals were eaten in silence, sometimes with a reading, unless it was a special celebration day.

• 18:25Georgia Hardstark?

  That's my out. I can't eat in silence.

• 18:28Karen Kilgariff?

  No way. It's giving me agita, just describing Nicole's experience. In the order I entered, it's a teaching order, so all the sisters teach in schools around the country. You keep a really rigid schedule of prayers, reading, and recreation, which is sometimes playing sports like ultimate frisbee outside.

• 18:47Georgia Hardstark?

  What? Nuns playing ultimate frisbee.

• 18:50Karen Kilgariff?

  They're like, you absolutely have to. You have to pray.

• 18:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus loves ultimate frisbee.

• 18:56Karen Kilgariff?

  And you can see right over there, he's playing. Or board games. Overall, there was a lot, see, now I'm back in for the board games.

• 19:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 19:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Overall, there was a lot of beauty in the life. As a person who likes alone time, I don't mind not talking to people all day. But I ultimately decided for many obvious reasons that the life wasn't for me. And years later, decided high control religion wasn't for me either. For more obvious reasons. Thank you, ladies and the whole team, for making a podcast that makes me and so many people feel understood.

• 19:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, wow.

• 19:23Karen Kilgariff?

  And like they're talking to a friend. You've gotten me through bouts of postpartum, cross-country moves, raising four kids.

• 19:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 19:30Karen Kilgariff?

  And then in parentheses, it says, yes, it's a lot of kids. Religious deconstruction and so much more. You've done so much good in the world with wit, humor, and discussing hard topics. Thank you for being you and sharing it. Stay sexy and don't enter the convent.

• 19:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 19:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Nicole.

• 19:45Georgia Hardstark?

  What does Nicole do now, I wonder?

• 19:47Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean.

• 19:48Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so, like, it's just, like, such a vast array of life experience.

• 19:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 19:54Georgia Hardstark?

  It's fascinating.

• 19:55Karen Kilgariff?

  If Nicole has a job aside from mothering those four children, that I would be wildly impressed.

• 20:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure, that's a lot of work.

• 20:03Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so many children. Maybe they're grown up.

• 20:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 20:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow, that is, I love that we asked for that and then someone was like, here, I'll tell you all of my personal business.

• 20:13Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it.

• 20:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you kindly.

• 20:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Good job. The holidays are coming, which means we'll all be spending more time away from home.

• 20:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether you're visiting family or doing something actually fun, you want to know your home is protected while you're away.

• 20:26Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why now is a good time to think about home security with SimpliSafe.

• 20:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Unlike traditional security systems that alert you after a break-in starts, SimpliSafe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside. These days, you're worried about your house, you're out of town, and then something comes up and you get to look on your phone. And SimpliSafe is going to show you not only the video of, like, it's a raccoon at your front door, but also that they have staff that's sitting there, they already know. And if it was something different or worse, they would have already been on it.

• 20:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I really think that's invaluable peace of mind that just, like, relying on your neighbors paying attention is not going to give you. We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer our listeners their biggest Savings of the year, 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplysafe.com/mfm.

• 21:12Karen Kilgariff?

  That's simplysafe.com/mfm. And when you order, write in MFM at checkout and it tells them we sent you and it really helps the show.

• 21:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Simply Safe, ahead of crime in real time.

• 21:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 21:24Georgia Hardstark?

  The holidays are filled with moments that remind us who matters most. The friend who always picks up the phone.

• 21:29Karen Kilgariff?

  The family member who's stood by your side, the people who know your story and help shape it every day.

• 21:34Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why this season Pandora's Holiday Collection is all about celebrating the ones you know by heart with a gift that says it all.

• 21:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Because the best gifts don't just look beautiful, they mean something too. Discover meaningful jewelry designed to honor every connection.

• 21:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Choose engraveable pieces that turn memories into keepsakes.

• 21:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Celebrate special moments with festive charms that capture the spirit of the season or surprise someone extraordinary with the brilliance of Pandora's lab grown diamonds.

• 21:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Each piece is thoughtfully crafted to help you express what can be difficult to put into words.

• 22:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether you're shopping for a partner, a parent, a best friend, or someone who's been there through it all, you'll find a gift that reflects everything they mean to you.

• 22:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Give a piece that says exactly what words can't.

• 22:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Pandora, more than a gift.

• 22:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Shop new styles in store or online at pandora.net.

• 22:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Sometimes being a little salty is completely justified.

• 22:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Pair your salty side with something sweet with the new Salted Caramel flavor from Kachava.

• 22:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Kachava is a whole body shake with plant-based protein, fiber, greens, and other nutrients to help fill nutritional gaps.

• 22:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Just two scoops provide complete nutrition your body craves with protein, fiber, greens, and so much more.

• 22:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Their new Salty Caramel flavor combines sweet caramel with a little salt, so you get that salty-sweet balance along with the nutrition Kachava is known for.

• 22:50Georgia Hardstark?

  When the day demands your salty side, fuel it with plant-based protein that actually tastes delicious.

• 22:54Karen Kilgariff?

  I really do love Kachava and I really do think it does taste delicious for getting you through the morning, filling in the gap if you just need some protein and you need some vitamins. It's such a nice little treat.

• 23:06Georgia Hardstark?

  It's such an easy way to get everything you need and it tastes good too, which is just huge bonus.

• 23:10Karen Kilgariff?

  So embrace your salty side.

• 23:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Go to kachava.com and use code MFM for 15% off your first order.

• 23:16Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Kachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A.com, code MFM. Goodbye.

• 23:23Georgia Hardstark?

  My last one is short. It's called "My Klepto Dad," a very, very short read. "After the mini-syll with the klepto grandma," remember there was a grandma that kept fucking putting shit in her purse, "I am officially joining the 'finally I have something to write in about' club. "In the first 10 years of my life, I received various trinkets from my dad, things from shops, airplanes, anywhere and everywhere, "and he always told me that the ladies gave them to him." "The ladies. I was really fond of these nice ladies until I got older and realized that all this stuff was stolen."

• 23:58Georgia Hardstark?

  "It broke my little honest heart, as of course, I was always taught not to lie or steal anything. "I can still vividly remember the image of my favorite butterfly keychain lying in the garbage after I threw it away upon discovering the truth."

• 24:11Karen Kilgariff?

  That's tough.

• 24:11Georgia Hardstark?

  "My parents still steal stuff."

• 24:15Georgia Hardstark?

  "We have many, many airplane blankets, various sets of airplane spoons, and other random items from the ladies."

• 24:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 24:24Georgia Hardstark?

  "Love you, blah, blah, blah. Aggie from Hungary."

• 24:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Aggie, hi from Hungary. Hi, all the way to Hungary. First of all, amazing and cool. Secondly, the last time I was on a plane, I was getting ready to steal... Maybe it was a spoon, or it was something that was so distinct and cool. And I was like, as I was like, "Don't do it, do it, don't do it." The flight attendant came and took my tray away, where I was like, "Okay, she can tell." Like, I think people probably

• 24:55Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm sure.

• 24:55Karen Kilgariff?

  get these all the time.

• 24:56Georgia Hardstark?

  But you deserve it.

• 24:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I earned it.

• 24:59Georgia Hardstark?

  You did.

• 24:59Karen Kilgariff?

  But I, that feeling of like, there's a real... Aggie just really like drew a little, wrote a little short story about like, when your heart first breaks as a child, because you're like, "Oh, I thought you guys were..."

• 25:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Superhuman.

• 25:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 25:13Georgia Hardstark?

  And you've been lying to me.

• 25:15Karen Kilgariff?

  You've been lying and stealing. Okay, here's my last one.

• 25:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 25:19Karen Kilgariff?

  "Four weddings, one bride, all drama." "Hey ladies, I've written in a few times with no luck, but when you asked for wedding/family drama stories, I knew this was my moment. My oldest cousin, Jen," and then a parentheses, it says "names changed," "has been married four times, and each wedding has had its own special crises and a lot of drama. I can already tell this is gonna be a long one, so I'll just get into it."

• 25:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Four times.

• 25:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Four times.

• 25:44Georgia Hardstark?

  No judgment, but that's a lot.

• 25:47Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, that's very optimistic.

• 25:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 25:49Karen Kilgariff?

  It's very like, non-cynical, keeping it clean.

• 25:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 25:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Just keeping it raw.

• 25:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Keep trying, yeah.

• 25:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Fine, okay, fine, goodbye.

• 25:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Next.

• 25:57Karen Kilgariff?

  You there. Wedding one. "At the first wedding, I was the drama." And then it has a little, little devil face emoji.

• 26:03Georgia Hardstark?

  I love the admittance of that.

• 26:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. "But I still maintain that it was not my fault. For context, I was two. The wedding was in Jamaica. It was my first time on a plane and my mom was staying home with my newborn sister, making it also the first time I'd been away from her."

• 26:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Hmm. There's no reason for a fucking two-year-old to travel for a wedding.

• 26:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Without her primary.

• 26:23Georgia Hardstark?

  No. Absolutely not.

• 26:25Karen Kilgariff?

  "According to multiple sources," it says "my dad, grandma, aunts and uncles, I was a nightmare the entire time and threw a full-temper tantrum during this ceremony."

• 26:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, God.

• 26:35Karen Kilgariff?

  "Over 20 years later, my relatives will still make fun of me for ruining the wedding, even though the marriage didn't even last long enough for the marriage license to make it back to the States."

• 26:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 26:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Immediate divorce.

• 26:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, you gotta wonder.

• 26:48Karen Kilgariff?

  And then it says, "I don't think that's on me." Wedding two. "Clearly, I hadn't been too big of an issue at the first wedding because guess who got to be a junior bridesmaid at the second one? I can't confirm this, but I'm pretty sure that this wedding was the final straw in my aunt and uncle," like, a different aunt and uncle's divorce. "Uncle John had a bit too much to drink and was dancing very close to several women, none of whom were his wife. They left early, divorced soon after, and Uncle John never came to another family gathering except for to pick up his kids."

• 27:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 27:18Karen Kilgariff?

  "They had been on the outs for a while, so no real surprise, but the timing and the kind of drama of it kind of overshadowed the new marriage, which also did not last long." Wedding three. This wedding was actually very pleasant. It was on a river ferry that took us all on a nice cruise with the ceremony, dinner and dancing all on board. We all thought Jen had finally had a drama-free wedding until their divorce a few years later, when we learned that it wasn't a wedding at all. They had never filed the paperwork to get legally married and had lied to everyone to get a bunch of gifts and make it less of a thing. And then in parentheses, Catholic family.

• 27:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Whoa.

• 27:54Karen Kilgariff?

  When they started having kids.

• 27:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Got it. Wow.

• 27:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Needless to say, my family was pissed, with some relatives even demanding their gifts back.

• 28:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Damn.

• 28:04Karen Kilgariff?

  You want that, you want the ice bucket back, really?

• 28:06Georgia Hardstark?

  That Cuisinart. Yes, I want my fucking Cuisinart back.

• 28:09Karen Kilgariff?

  You already have one, but okay.

• 28:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus wants me to have my fucking Cuisinart back.

• 28:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Jesus is pissed, and I'm on behalf, on his behalf. Wedding four. After the scam that was wedding number three, everyone was understandably very, I fucking love this woman, whoever she is.

• 28:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, yes, that happened. This one, I promise, is real.

• 28:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Get up every morning and go try to get married again, and just figure it out. After the scam that was wedding number three, everyone was understandably wary of wedding number four. The fact that Jen and hubby four decided to move forward with a wedding in the summer of 2020 despite the whole pandemic thing didn't help matters either. She and hubby four are very conservative and they don't believe in vaccines despite both working in the healthcare industry.

• 28:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 28:55Karen Kilgariff?

  When Jen found out that my parents and some other relatives would not be attending, largely because of safety, but also because we all had long since fulfilled our familial wedding duties, she wrote us all an email explaining how none of her three divorces were her fault, and then in parentheses, it says, "Not true." And then number four would be different. Parentheses, it wasn't.

• 29:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, God, I love family drama.

• 29:19Karen Kilgariff?

  She failed to change any of our minds and had a much smaller wedding than anticipated. You can't, after the act on wedding three, you cannot expect people to go in on wedding four.

• 29:29Georgia Hardstark?

  No. Like, even, attending is a, is like, a favor. And then, don't expect gifts. I've gotten you three gifts already.

• 29:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to a beach.

• 29:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 29:38Karen Kilgariff?

  With two friends.

• 29:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 29:40Karen Kilgariff?

  And a deacon.

• 29:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 29:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Send everybody a picture.

• 29:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 29:44Karen Kilgariff?

  She failed to change any of our minds and had a much smaller wedding than anticipated. She is still mad about this and will bring it up passive aggressively whenever she can at family gatherings.

• 29:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I love her.

• 29:55Karen Kilgariff?

  I love her.

• 29:56Georgia Hardstark?

  The audacity.

• 29:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. It's really an unapologetic life.

• 30:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 30:01Karen Kilgariff?

  God bless. Whatever, Jen, I can be passive aggressive too and air my grievances on my favorite podcast.

• 30:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 30:10Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, why not?

• 30:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 30:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, mystery Jen, it's not Jen's real name, is totally free and welcome to write in, say their side of the story.

• 30:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 30:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Just argue for love. Thanks for listening to all that. Also, what am I doing in 2025? I'm getting married. You heard that right. The screaming toddler turned junior bridesmaid turned non-attendee is all grown up. My fiance is the kindest, most emotionally intelligent, wonderful man I know, and I can't wait to marry him.

• 30:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 30:38Karen Kilgariff?

  That's really nice. Though I have every expectation to be one and done with my own wedding, I'm sure I'll still have plenty of drama for my next email. Thank you for all you do to advocate for victims and tell important stories in a fair and balanced way. Katie She-Her.

• 30:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow, Katie.

• 30:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Katie, you nailed it.

• 30:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Your aunt's probably fun to party with, though.

• 30:57Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I think that's a big part of all of it.

• 30:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Have you seen those videos from like the holidays where they're like, they go around the room and they say, hey, if you were bringing someone new to the family gathering, who would you warn them about? And everyone says the one person. It's always the one person.

• 31:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Jen.

• 31:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep. It's Jen. That's the energy it gave me.

• 31:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Completely. I mean, and it is the thing of, you know, in families when there's like, there's the, everybody goes into their roles and then there's the scapegoats and all the family psychology. So we'll leave it open door for Jen and what if she's just in the most fucked family and she's actually the true...

• 31:33Georgia Hardstark?

  The one who doesn't get, believe in vaccinations?

• 31:37Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm gonna go, I'm gonna guess no.

• 31:40Karen Kilgariff?

  What's there to believe in?

• 31:41Georgia Hardstark?

  There's, it exists and whether or not you believe in it.

• 31:46Karen Kilgariff?

  It exists and has been working for 100 years and is the way. And now that it has, that people have stopped doing it, immediately there are bad results from that.

• 31:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 31:55Karen Kilgariff?

  AKA.

• 31:57Georgia Hardstark?

  It doesn't need you believing in it. Just, okay. Hey, send us your stories at myfavoritemurder@gmail.

• 32:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Hey choir that we love to preach to.

• 32:05Georgia Hardstark?

  You know us.

• 32:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Hi.

• 32:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Thanks for listening.

• 32:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Thanks for your family, any kind of small time family drama, I'm telling you.

• 32:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Tell us about the person that you would warn other people about if they came to your family party and tell us why.

• 32:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Everything about like what they've done.

• 32:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 32:23Georgia Hardstark?

  All the things they've ruined.

• 32:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Or.

• 32:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Light heartedly, but like, yeah.

• 32:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Fun times.

• 32:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Fun.

• 32:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Like when Casey, one of the producers here, who's also now a co-host on Dear Movies, I Love You, told the story on the staff meeting about his uncle who used to carry a bird in his pocket.

• 32:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Remember that? I was like, this is the best story I've ever heard in my life. Yeah, okay, we gotta hear those stories.

• 32:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 32:44Georgia Hardstark?

  And also stay sexy.

• 32:45Karen Kilgariff?

  And don't get murdered.

• 32:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 32:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 32:57Karen Kilgariff?

  This has been an Exactly Right Production.

• 32:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Our senior producer is Alejandra Kepp.

• 33:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

• 33:04Georgia Hardstark?

  This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci.

• 33:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Email your hometowns to [email protected].

• 33:09Georgia Hardstark?

  And follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder.

• 33:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 33:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Vacation planning should feel like a breeze, not a deep dive into countless travel sites searching for the best deal.

• 33:25Georgia Hardstark?

  With Cheap Caribbean's Budget Beach Finder, you can search every destination and every date, all in one search.

• 33:31Karen Kilgariff?

  You'll save time and money with the Budget Beach Finder.

• 33:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Say goodbye to endless scrolling and tab hopping and hello to Budget Beach Bliss at your fingertips.

• 33:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to cheapcaribbean.com to try out the Budget Beach Finder and see just how stress-free vacation planning should be.

• 33:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  Cool fall nights always make me want to entertain more. A few friends around the table, maybe a fire outside when the sun goes down. Before everyone comes over, I stop at Total Wine & More. Right now, there's a cranberry-flavored wine, a crisp apple wine, even a pumpkin spice cream that's perfect in coffee after dinner. And with the lowest prices, I can bring home a few different fall flavors for everyone to try. Find your favorite fall flavors at the lowest prices at Total Wine & More. Spirits are not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. Must be 21.