Dan Levy

Actor, director, and writer Dan Levy feels thrilled, titillated, excited, and stimulated about being Conan O’Brien’s friend. Dan sits down with Conan to discuss memories of the great Catherine O’Hara, how Canadian self-awareness creates a unique sense of comedy, producing six seasons of Schitt’s Creek without the pressure of audience expectations, and the bombastic cast of his newest show Big Mistakes. Later, Conan brings in his lawyer David Melmed to consult on Aaron Bleyaert’s questionable tax write-offs. For Conan videos, tour dates and more visit TeamCoco.com. Got a question for Conan? Call our voicemail: (669) 587-2847.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Conan O'Brien?

  Who do you shop for first on the holidays, Sona? Was it, do you shop for the kids or do you shop for Tac?

• 0:06Speaker 01

  My kids.

• 0:07Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Or Oki.

• 0:08Conan O'Brien?

  You gotta get them your stuff.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Or my dog.

• 0:09Conan O'Brien?

  And then your husband is last. Well, guess what? It's that time of year. You feel that, you smell that, uh, that cinnamon cider in the air? Do you smell that?

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:19Conan O'Brien?

  And you see pumpkins around, people buying turkeys. A little early to buy a turkey.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:24Conan O'Brien?

  Doesn't matter. Holidays? I would say it's just around the corner, but that's a cliche. It's, uh, very nearby in the cupboard. Well, guess what? Amazon delivers joy with low prices on the gifts you want even this early in the season. So get ahead of the season. Shop early gifts, top picks, holiday decor, and advent calendars at low prices. Get ahead, start on holiday gifting with Amazon's low prices. Shop now at amazon.com/holiday.

• 0:56Conan O'Brien?

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• 0:57Speaker 01

  Always.

• 0:58Conan O'Brien?

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• 1:04Speaker 01

  Mmm.

• 1:04Conan O'Brien?

  Each pistachio is thinly, not thickly, thinly dipped in dark chocolate antioxidant goodness.

• 1:12Speaker 01

  The way you said that, thinly and thickly was uncomfortable.

• 1:14Conan O'Brien?

  It's really nice. It doesn't overwhelm the pistachio. They know what they're doing. I'm so glad they made the right choice.

• 1:21Conan O'Brien?

  Or discover Wonderful Pistachios Dubai Chocolate. The sweet indulgence you didn't know you needed with rich dark chocolate, smooth white chocolate, crispy katafi, and a delicious crunchy pistachio. I'm telling you, snack time never tasted so good.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35Conan O'Brien?

  Look it up in history. It never has. Never has.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  Can you?

• 1:39Conan O'Brien?

  Check out wonderfulpistachios.com to learn more about Wonderful Pistachios chocolate products.

• 1:47Speaker 02

  Hi, my name is Dan Levy and I'm feeling

• 1:53Speaker 02

  thrilled, titillated, excited, stimulated.

• 1:56Conan O'Brien?

  Jesus.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  To be Conan O'Brien's friend.

• 1:58Conan O'Brien?

  I think you're thinking of a different Conan O'Brien.

• 2:00Speaker 02

  I'm just feeling really good right now.

• 2:06Conan O'Brien?

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. And I sit here quite proudly with my good friend, Sona Movsesian. Hey, Sona. Hey, hi. And, uh, of course, David Hopping.

• 2:35Speaker 03

  Hello.

• 2:36Conan O'Brien?

  We were chatting just before the podcast started, uh, about different things that we were excited about. And then, David, you were electrified because you said, and you had a huge smile on your face. You said they just renewed Grey's Anatomy.

• 2:49Speaker 03

  I know.

• 2:49Conan O'Brien?

  For what season?

• 2:50Speaker 03

  Twenty-three.

• 2:51Conan O'Brien?

  Okay, this show started, I think, shortly after the end of the Civil War. No. Um, whole casts have aged out and died.

• 3:00Speaker 03

  There's only three originals left.

• 3:02Conan O'Brien?

  Oh. I know, but what, how could this show still be going? And I don't mean to be ignorant or, and I'm so happy that people love Grey's Anatomy, but I was unaware that it was still.

• 3:12Speaker 03

  It's still kicking, and I'm still watching.

• 3:15Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 3:15Speaker 03

  I started it at, uh, Warner Brothers when Sona gave me permission to watch TV. I watched the first fourteen seasons.

• 3:21Conan O'Brien?

  Wait a minute, hold on a second. Wait a minute, hold on a second. Sona was my assistant.

• 3:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:25Conan O'Brien?

  And then you were supposed to help her, and she gave you permission to watch.

• 3:29Speaker 03

  I'll never forget it, Sona, because I was, so at Warner Brothers, Sona was on the second floor with you.

• 3:34Conan O'Brien?

  This is for the TBS show, yeah.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was up on the third floor, so anytime you needed something, Sona would call me. And one day she called and she was like, hey, you know, if you're up there waiting for me to tell you to do something, like, feel free to watch Netflix. And I said, great, and I watched fourteen seasons of Grey's Anatomy.

• 3:48Conan O'Brien?

  You are, you are a cancer. What the fuck? I'm, you are a cancer that turns everyone into an indolent clown.

• 4:00Conan O'Brien?

  You instructed him and he didn't just watch one show or half a show. He watched 14 seasons.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  This is your work environment. You are the boss. You set the tone.

• 4:11Speaker 03

  It comes from the top.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Yes, it does.

• 4:13Conan O'Brien?

  I don't think so. I think that there is a, the tone I set. I'm a very hard worker. I'm very intense. And then you come along and everyone around me.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Are you being serious? You say, I understand you work hard.

• 4:26Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  But you're not, you're not a serious person. Like I walked, excuse me.

• 4:31Conan O'Brien?

  I'm very serious.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  No, I walked, I walked into the Oscar rehearsal and you asked everybody there if they all smell garlic. You said that to a room full of people I've never met before. Hey, he's like, hey, what's that smell? Is that garlic? And you looked over at me, you're like, oh, hey, Sona.

• 4:48Conan O'Brien?

  With all the seat fillers. They love my, my riffs about you. Um, anyway, you, let's get back to you and how you failed me. So you got him to watch, so you watched 14 seasons of Grey's Anatomy. Well, guess what? You have like 35 more seasons to go.

• 5:05Speaker 03

  Isn't it incredible?

• 5:05Conan O'Brien?

  Well, how do you think this show will end? There's a theory that when Grey's Anatomy does end, humanity will end.

• 5:13Speaker 03

  I thought maybe you were gonna have a real theory there first.

• 5:15Conan O'Brien?

  No, there's a theory that it's, it's been around as long as Earth has been orbiting the sun.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 5:21Conan O'Brien?

  I know you think the sun orbits the earth, but that's not the case. Um, it's insane how long it's been going for.

• 5:27Speaker 03

  I know. Isn't it incredible? I mean, as long as Meredith Grey is on our TV, what else could we want?

• 5:32Conan O'Brien?

  Which one is Meredith Grey?

• 5:33Speaker 03

  Ellen Pompeo.

• 5:34Conan O'Brien?

  Okay. Um, and they're still doctors? Has the show morphed into now they live in a treehouse or something? A lot of shows that have been on that long morph and now they live on a dude ranch and they're not doctors. Does that happen?

• 5:44Speaker 03

  No, but the amount of like just natural disasters and awful things that happen in that hospital.

• 5:49Conan O'Brien?

  What, what kind of stuff happens?

• 5:50Speaker 03

  Like there's a whole really intense shooter episode. There's a plane crash episode.

• 5:54Conan O'Brien?

  Wait, a plane crashes into the hospital?

• 5:55Speaker 03

  Not into the hospital. All the doctors are on a plane and the plane crashes.

• 5:59Conan O'Brien?

  Well, what are the odds of that?

• 6:00Speaker 03

  I know. There's a ferry episode where they like all start to drown.

• 6:06Conan O'Brien?

  What? All of them are on a ferry? So the doctors from the hospital all said, let's take a ferry. And then it's the first ferry that's gone under.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  And that's an early one.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:15Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. All right, so, well, the important thing is it seems to bring people a lot of joy. I'm trying to make this a positive thing.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:21Conan O'Brien?

  And I know I came across a little bit when I started out is like, how could Grey's Anatomy still be going?

• 6:25Speaker 01

  I said the same thing.

• 6:26Conan O'Brien?

  But that's a terrible attitude for anyone to have.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  No, I said the same thing. I also watched it when it first came out and they lost me when they blew up Kyle Chandler. That's when I was like, I'm out. I can't do this. With a bomb.

• 6:38Conan O'Brien?

  What?

• 6:38Speaker 03

  And, and.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  They blew him up with a bomb.

• 6:40Conan O'Brien?

  Okay, but give me the context. When you said blow up, I assumed it was some kind of explosive.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  There was.

• 6:45Conan O'Brien?

  Don't just say there was a bomb. How'd they blow him up? They blew him up with a bomb! How did Kyle Chandler blow up?

• 6:52Speaker 01

  There was an explosive in a person that they found during surgery and.

• 6:57Conan O'Brien?

  Why was the person, why would a person have a bomb in their body and then check themselves into the hospital? Answer that.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  David, do you remember?

• 7:05Speaker 03

  I don't remember.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  No, he needed, the person needed surgery. You just have to, you have to go with it.

• 7:09Conan O'Brien?

  The person needed surgery?

• 7:10Speaker 01

  The person needed surgery.

• 7:10Conan O'Brien?

  And the person didn't know that three years earlier he had swallowed a caramel-covered bomb? That was stuck in his rectum? How, I'm just, explain this to me.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  So they're doing the surgery and then the girl feels something and, and then they're like, oh my God, it's a bomb. You have to stay still. So she just had to stay there with her finger on the bomb so it wouldn't go off. And then they called the bomb squad and then the bomb squad got everybody safe. And then while he's walking away with the bomb in his hand all like quietly.

• 7:39Conan O'Brien?

  Who's he?

• 7:40Speaker 01

  Kyle Chandler.

• 7:41Conan O'Brien?

  What, he's on the bomb squad?

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:43Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, I thought he was a doctor and they handed him.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  No, he's up, he's on the bomb squad.

• 7:48Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  And he's, we're like, oh my God, everyone's clear. He's walking away. And then as he's walking away, it just explodes.

• 7:53Conan O'Brien?

  Do they cut to shoes that are empty, but they're smoking?

• 7:57Speaker 01

  It's not a cartoon.

• 7:59Conan O'Brien?

  I wish it was a cartoon. And guess what? It sounds like a cartoon. So someone checked in for surgery, had a bomb in them that they didn't know they had.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:06Conan O'Brien?

  They call in the bomb squad, and who's in the bomb squad? Kyle Chandler.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, baby.

• 8:10Conan O'Brien?

  Coach from Friday Night Light.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, Coach Taylor.

• 8:12Conan O'Brien?

  And he says, "I'm an expert on bombs. Well, I think I'll take this with me home. I'll just go jogging home now." Who walks away with a bomb? You know, I'm sorry. I don't mean to neg on this wonderful show that people really like.

• 8:28Speaker 03

  Oh, there's a great musical episode, too.

• 8:30Conan O'Brien?

  No, there isn't. There's no way there's a musical episode.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  They're around a table doing surgery while singing "How to Save a Life" by The Fray.

• 8:37Conan O'Brien?

  Okay, and they find a bomb? "I feel something hard. Oh, my God, it's a bomb.

• 8:44Conan O'Brien?

  We better get Kyle Chandler. Oh, no, he blew up."

• 8:49Conan O'Brien?

  I just sneeze because I'm allergic to bad plots. How do they break a story on that show? How does the writers' room say, "I've got it, there's a bomb in this patient"? Why? Don't worry about it.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 9:00Conan O'Brien?

  Okay, listen, to all you fans of, what's it called again?

• 9:03Speaker 03

  Grey's.

• 9:03Conan O'Brien?

  Grey's Anatomy. Grey's Anatomy, season 77. Remember the first season? That was a good one, when President Hoover stopped by.

• 9:11Conan O'Brien?

  And he said, "I think there's a depression coming. And by the way, I think I have a bomb in my colon."

• 9:19Conan O'Brien?

  All right. Well, guess what? My guest today, and this is no, there don't, there's no transition here.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  No.

• 9:25Conan O'Brien?

  My guest today is an Emmy-winning actor, director, and writer, a real writer, who starred as David Rose in the hilarious series Schitt's Creek. Now you can see him in the new Netflix show, Big Mistakes. Very, very happy this gentleman is with us today.

• 9:45Conan O'Brien?

  Dan Levy, welcome.

• 9:49Conan O'Brien?

  I gotta say one thing up front, it's not what we're gonna talk about initially, but I, uh, David, my assistant here.

• 9:55Speaker 02

  Hi.

• 9:56Conan O'Brien?

  He, uh, he downloaded, we were sent a few of your episodes of your new show, uh, Big Mistakes, and we watched a couple of them yesterday, and I was immediately, every time we finished one, I'd go like, "Another one."

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'd be like, "Next."

• 10:12Conan O'Brien?

  I mean, my, my job is I maybe watch the first one.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 10:15Conan O'Brien?

  And then, uh, yeah, I was like, "Next, next." And I was like, "The hamster with the cocaine pellet."

• 10:21Speaker 02

  There's no meat left in the office when we were done.

• 10:22Conan O'Brien?

  No, I just wanted more.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  That's what we're hoping for, so that's a good sign.

• 10:25Conan O'Brien?

  No, you are, yes, you want me to be a rat and addicted to cocaine.

• 10:29Speaker 02

  That's it. All of the above.

• 10:30Conan O'Brien?

  It's, uh, it's really funny, and we will talk about that in a bit, but I'm so happy, because I'm a massive Schitt's Creek fan, as we all are, and then when I heard that you were up to something, another series, I was very excited.

• 10:45Speaker 02

  Disappointed.

• 10:46Conan O'Brien?

  Prepared to be disappointed, yeah. I love how your mind works, because that's how my mind works.

• 10:51Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 10:51Conan O'Brien?

  So I was disappointed?

• 10:52Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 10:53Conan O'Brien?

  Certain that you would die? Wait, what? No!

• 10:55Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh. Expecting the worst, yeah.

• 11:00Conan O'Brien?

  Expecting the worst?

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Sure. And it delivered, across the board.

• 11:04Conan O'Brien?

  Oh my god, what a tragedy, and what a travesty. Uh, no, I'm, I'm so glad that you are back, uh, making more ridiculous fun, and you're so good at it.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 11:16Conan O'Brien?

  And just thrilled to have you here.

• 11:18Speaker 02

  I'm so happy to be here.

• 11:19Conan O'Brien?

  I saw you recently, not to bring the room down, but I saw you very recently at a very sad event. It was also uplifting, which was Catherine O'Hara's, um, you know, the gathering for, for Catherine.

• 11:30Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 11:30Conan O'Brien?

  And I wanna offer my condolences to you, because we all lost this amazing person in Catherine, and, but you had this relationship that's probably gone on your whole life with Catherine. I mean, you made this incredible role for her in Schitt's Creek, but all of us, that, that's one of, just one of those losses that I still can't quite fit into my head.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  And the crazy thing about it is that I'm still like, you know, I go on Instagram and her face is there, and Moira's clips from the show are all over the place, and it's... And I, every time I see her, even though I wrote the thing,

• 12:07Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  I stop and I watch. And I'm watching not for anything that I did.

• 12:11Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 12:12Speaker 02

  But I'm watching because she is impossible not to watch.

• 12:15Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 12:16Speaker 02

  And she's impossible not to love. And she's, it's impossible not to laugh with her in anything she does. And it's, it is like an unimaginable loss.

• 12:27Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  She was just irreplaceable talent.

• 12:31Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  And an irreplaceable person.

• 12:33Conan O'Brien?

  Really, I may have mentioned this, but at the SNL 50th, it felt totally arbitrary to me unless they were just had an Irish section. But I showed up and they gave me my seat and I sit down and then there's an empty seat next to me and then who's, who's assigned there, but it's Catherine O'Hara. And I had the time of my life with her.

• 12:57Speaker 02

  She is the greatest company.

• 12:58Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, she was so.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  She's the greatest seatmate.

• 13:00Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 13:00Speaker 02

  She's the greatest dinner companion.

• 13:02Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  She was the greatest conversationalist.

• 13:05Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 13:05Speaker 02

  She was endlessly curious and humble and deeply, deeply funny.

• 13:11Conan O'Brien?

  Also, she has this, had this way of instantly, again, I don't know if this is because I'm part of that sick Irish tribe, but she had this way of immediately becoming like an older sister to me. So I'm sitting next to her and we're going back and forth and bullshitting in between sketches. And then finally, at the end of the show, Paul McCartney comes out. It's like a surprise, but he comes out to sing like the end of Abbey Road. And I just, next to Catherine went, ugh. And she said, what? And I said, this guy's never good.

• 13:52Conan O'Brien?

  And Catherine like punched me. She was like, oh, shut up, you know? I'm like, I don't, I don't, I know her, but I didn't know her well enough to get punched by her. But yes, I did.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  That's also a stunning Catherine O'Hara impersonation.

• 14:04Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  She had a very sort of, oh.

• 14:06Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  There was a, there was a throatiness to her that was so gruff at times.

• 14:11Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  And yet she played like Lola Heatherton and Moira Rose and had this like unbelievable elegance and yet sometimes could just be like, oh.

• 14:20Conan O'Brien?

  Suddenly, yeah, suddenly lose her words.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  She also knew when something was not funny.

• 14:25Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  Hence your Paul McCartney joke.

• 14:27Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:30Conan O'Brien?

  She knew when to bring it back to reality. I wanted to be the one person who ever said that when Paul McCartney came out. I just wanted, I thought, there's no one's ever done it, I'm gonna do it. I'm sure that was the reaction you were looking for. Yeah, exactly. Let's go out on a limb with this Paul McCartney joke and see how it reacts. I wanted to, I wanted to get punched by Catherine O'Hara and my dream came true. But this segues nicely into something that has always puzzled me. And at the event for Catherine, the former Prime Minister Trudeau was there. That's right. At one point, I find myself talking to him after the ceremony and I just said, why? Why are Canadians, what is it, is it in the water? What is it about? And I know it's a question that's been around. For a second, I thought you asked him why he was there.

• 15:14Conan O'Brien?

  And why, and also. Again, I don't know if that would fly with, I don't know, maybe. I did, so when I saw him go, ugh. And someone next to me said, what's the problem? And I said, he's never good. No, I, I, I asked him, what is it about? So many of my comedy heroes, I grew up watching your dad, Joe Flaherty, Catherine O'Hara, I mean, Marty Short, the whole crew. I, I watched them on SCTV and I was a religious devotee of how smart and funny and great. What a brilliant show that was. Well, I also try to, I try to get younger people to understand there's so much smart, cutting edge stuff that can come from any angle at you now.

• 15:58Conan O'Brien?

  It just didn't exist then. And SNL was great and monolithic, but SCTV shows up shortly afterwards and it is more like the internet comedy of today. Right. It was maybe 50 years, it felt like it was 50 years ahead of its time and I just fell in love with it. And I, I was, and then, you know, working in comedy, I've just, every time I work with Canadians and they're so fast and funny. And I'm wondering, you're growing up, was it in Toronto? Where did you grow up? Toronto. Toronto. And can you explain what this whole thing is? Well.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  I mean, my dad and Catherine have this philosophy that it's actually not an instinct. It's not a categorically Canadian thing.

• 16:40Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  It's just Canadians who have succeeded have just like, there's a lot of Canadian enthusiasm around them.

• 16:47Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  But statistically speaking, I mean, I think there are a lot of very successful, specifically Canadian comedians.

• 16:55Conan O'Brien?

  I believe that statistically, it's off the charts. Meaning, I'm not satisfied with the explanation that, no, there are funny people in every country and somehow Canadians just support.

• 17:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:03Conan O'Brien?

  No, I've worked with way too many, all the Kids in the Hall guys, Mike Myers are just, it's an endless list.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  And it's also pockets of very funny Canadians that have found each other at these points in their lives. And I, you know, going, one of my big, like, genie wishes would be to go back and watch some of those early Second City nights.

• 17:26Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 17:26Speaker 02

  You know, John Candy, Andrea Martin, Catherine O'Hara, my dad, Marty, and then, you know, Gilda.

• 17:33Conan O'Brien?

  Yep.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  And, I mean, then you get into The Godspell of it all, which I would have killed to have seen.

• 17:38Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, that's the show we all want to go back and hang out at because it was, it's like every important scientist, or every great painter in the Renaissance somehow got together and worked on one painting.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  It was insane.

• 17:50Conan O'Brien?

  That's how it felt, this one production of Godspell, everybody was in it, I mean, everybody.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:55Conan O'Brien?

  And if...

• 17:57Speaker 02

  It has like legendary status.

• 17:59Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  The very first movie I ever made was with Tina Fey, and I was so nervous. And at a break, she came over and she was like, I want to talk about Godspell in Toronto. And instantly, I was set at ease.

• 18:11Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  So it's, it's, it's, yes, there are funny Canadians, but there's also like these pockets of unbelievably brilliant Canadian funny minds that have somehow found their way into the international sort of zeitgeist. I think it's because we live above America.

• 18:28Conan O'Brien?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  Which is inherently sort of a very prideful freedom and, you know.

• 18:33Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  Ah!

• 18:35Conan O'Brien?

  You'll have freedom if it kills you.

• 18:39Conan O'Brien?

  We're firing a freedom bomb at you.

• 18:42Speaker 02

  It's like, what? We can't relate, you know? We don't have that kind of hubris. So, as a place that is sort of wanting to be very different than America, but knowing that it is not quite as powerful.

• 18:56Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  There is an inherent sort of self-awareness.

• 18:59Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 18:59Speaker 02

  That is in the water. And I believe self-awareness is what makes the people funny.

• 19:04Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  It's the lack of self-awareness is the most boring people you meet are completely unaware of how boring they are.

• 19:11Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, yes.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  Canadians are very aware of how boring they are. And that's what makes it funny. Do you know what I mean?

• 19:19Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, that's it. I believe that.

• 19:21Speaker 02

  We know what's going on and we can talk about it.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  God, I love being Canadian.

• 19:28Conan O'Brien?

  It's sounding pretty good right now. I want to be Canadian.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  I'm clutching that passport.

• 19:34Conan O'Brien?

  I got, my wife and I got invited, I'm sure, to that lake area where everyone has their little cottages. Yeah, and Muskogas. And sitting on a dock and watching a boat pull up and, you know, Catherine jumped out of the boat with her husband Beau and your dad's there and people, like, the cast of SCTV is jumping out of a boat to sit with me on a dock while Marty pours us drinks. And I left my body.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 19:59Conan O'Brien?

  I left my body.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  You're drinking probably a rum and ting.

• 20:01Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, rum and ting. And, and, and of course, it's, I remember it was like 2 o'clock in the afternoon and Marty's like, "Time for rum and ting." And I noticed he shouts about everything.

• 20:11Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 20:12Conan O'Brien?

  "Coating, my boy, rum and ting." And then a boat pulls up, all my heroes are on one boat, they all get out. We're sitting on the dock, I leave my body and I'm looking at myself thinking, "That guy's hot." No.

• 20:29Speaker 02

  God, the sun has done wonders.

• 20:34Conan O'Brien?

  That's what happens every time I leave my body. I'm like, check out that ass. Wait, are you looking at your own ass? Your ass isn't good. Well, still, no, I, but I was, I was, I just couldn't believe it. I just couldn't, I couldn't believe the whole thing. And then, um, what's lovely about this whole story is that I know that you, growing up, were very conscious of not wanting to be part of your dad's light and make your own thing and do it your way, which is in some ways harder, I think.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah.

• 21:10Conan O'Brien?

  You, cause you talk about when you were a kid.

• 21:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:13Conan O'Brien?

  I don't know where I read this, but you were a kid and if people were paying attention to your dad, you didn't want to be part of that.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:19Conan O'Brien?

  Is that true?

• 21:19Speaker 02

  I would like walk 10 steps ahead or 10 steps behind. I really didn't like, well, I was like really insecure as a kid too. And I think having a parent who is like well-known and particularly in, in Canada, that SCTV alumni or just like kind of royalty.

• 21:35Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, there are like 10 Wayne Gretzky's walking around.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  That's right. That's exactly it. And people would come up and, and the attention was just so kind of awkward and, and so yeah, I never really paid attention to it. And then I went, I got into the theater program in high school and would never ask my dad for any help and really wanted to do it on my own. I just think when you, when you grow up under somebody who is so good at what they do, a lot of the trial and error of being a child of somebody who is good at what they do is trying to discover whether you are also good at the thing that you're excited about.

• 22:12Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  And if you happen to be excited about the thing that your parent does, it makes it even harder.

• 22:18Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  Because you're constantly in comparison. I remember taking a second city class, improv class in Toronto in front of a five foot by six foot photo of my dad in costume. It was like, um.

• 22:33Conan O'Brien?

  Bobby Bitman.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  That's Bobby Bitman.

• 22:35Conan O'Brien?

  Bobby Bitman, okay. A giant Bobby Bitman looking at me.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  A giant like, how are you in a thing with the red suit and the thing? And I was, and people were like, gosh, you look a lot like Eugene Levy. And I thought, I can't take these classes anymore. I can't do this because also failing at improv in front of a photo of your father, who didn't fail at improv, is worse than never having done it. It's worse than failing at a thousand things. So I, I just, I never really, when I, I got a job at MTV, I didn't tell them who my dad, I just didn't want anything to do with him.

• 23:11Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  Because I revered him so much, but also because I wanted to trial and error my own skills without the constant comparison of.

• 23:20Conan O'Brien?

  Is it as good as?

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. Bobby?

• 23:22Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Um, and slowly but surely, I built a name for myself in Canada, very unbeknownst to the, to the audience.

• 23:30Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  That I was my father's son. And, and then when shits happened, I felt like, I felt confident enough in my own point of view, in what I was bringing to the table, to ask him to collaborate. And I, I just had to get to that place by myself.

• 23:47Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. Yeah, I think it's almost like you had to do a, like a, a walkabout or a desert sojourn, where you figure these things out. And it's interesting because.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  But also being Canadian, you don't want the leg up.

• 24:00Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 24:01Speaker 02

  You want the torture of doing it completely on your own.

• 24:04Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 24:04Speaker 02

  But also, when you do it on your own, there, there is a greater satisfaction in the success.

• 24:10Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 24:17Conan O'Brien?

  You know, winning an award, that's a big achievement, right?

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:20Conan O'Brien?

  Every now and then in life, maybe something nice like that comes your way. Winning them consistently is almost impossible. It just doesn't happen. You know? Well, guess what? Winning five times in six years? You know what that sounds like to me? Sustained excellence.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 24:35Conan O'Brien?

  Hyundai has done just that, earning the title of America's best SUV brand for 2026 from US News and World Report. You are a very happy Hyundai driver.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  I drive a Hyundai Palisade and I love my car. I love it. I love driving it around.

• 24:48Conan O'Brien?

  I've been tooling around in a Ioniq 5N, which I love.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:52Conan O'Brien?

  Beautiful car. Well, listen, whether you need an SUV for everyday life, your next big adventure, or extra room for family and friends, Hyundai has an option for you. The Tucson Hybrid is loaded with technology and built for everyday life. The Santa Fe Hybrid's fully capable and ready for adventure. The Palisade, that's yours, right?

• 25:07Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 25:08Conan O'Brien?

  They're gonna rename that the Sona. The Palisade Hybrid, yeah, delivers premium capability and class-leading interior space with available, I have this memorized, H-Track all-wheel drive, up to an EPA estimated 619 miles of range on vehicles like the Palisade Hybrid and Hyundai's industry-leading warranty. It's easy to see why Hyundai continues to deliver the quality, innovation, technology, and value drivers expect from an award-winning brand. View U.S. News Best Cars at cars.usnews.com and call 562-314-4603 for complete details. Did you know that 1 in 4 Americans targeted by scams end up falling for them?

• 25:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:47Conan O'Brien?

  You fell for one.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  I fell for a scam.

• 25:49Conan O'Brien?

  Now, you didn't lose too much money, but you did lose.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  I did lose, and it was very inconvenient, and now they put protections on my account like I'm, uh, dumb.

• 25:57Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. I don't know where they got that impression. Criminals are now using AI to make scams look more realistic than ever. In 2025, AI fraud spiked 1,210% and cost Americans $893 million. That's incredible. Well, with AI, it can get so smart now.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:18Conan O'Brien?

  Do you know what I mean?

• 26:19Speaker 01

  Maybe I should start scamming.

• 26:20Conan O'Brien?

  No, that's not the point.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Oh, no, that's not the point of this.

• 26:22Conan O'Brien?

  That's not the point. One accidental click, Sona, can expose your information, putting you at risk of identity theft. Luckily, this is the point. Not that you should start scamming, but that everyone should get LifeLock.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Right, right, right, right.

• 26:34Conan O'Brien?

  LifeLock has live, U.S.-based restoration specialists who will be with you every step of the way to fix your identity theft, from first alert to full restoration. This is fantastic. How do you not have this?

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:46Conan O'Brien?

  If you have expenses or money stolen due to identity theft, you're backed by the million-dollar protection package with up to $3 million coverage in some plans. Join now and save up to 30% off your first year. Go to lifelock.com/conan. That's lifelock.com/conan to save 30%. Terms apply.

• 27:04Conan O'Brien?

  So what are some of the things in life that really get you down?

• 27:06Speaker 01

  Uh, driving?

• 27:08Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 27:08Speaker 01

  That's the first thing that popped in my head.

• 27:10Conan O'Brien?

  No, but I've seen you drive and it's true. I'm always picking mailboxes out of your grill.

• 27:15Conan O'Brien?

  You're a creative driver. Uh, look, let's face it. Just living on Earth can be a lot, right?

• 27:21Speaker 01

  It can.

• 27:21Conan O'Brien?

  I mean, oy vey, it's a lot.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:23Conan O'Brien?

  There's gravity, there's mosquitoes, there's this... You know that they say the sun is going to, at some point, go supernova and incinerate the Earth, probably in five billion years?

• 27:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 27:33Conan O'Brien?

  But watch your diet, we might be sticking around for that.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 27:36Conan O'Brien?

  So cosmically speaking, you've earned a break.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:38Conan O'Brien?

  And you know where this is going? I think you do.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  No.

• 27:40Conan O'Brien?

  Pluto TV.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  Oh, right, of course.

• 27:42Conan O'Brien?

  To escape all of these hassles in life, you gotta get Pluto TV. Turn off all your earthly problems and turn on the movies and shows you already love. You've seen them, but you wanna see them again. They're old friends.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:53Conan O'Brien?

  Anchorman, The Legend of Ron Burgundy, Dirty Dancing, Alias, X-Files. Pluto TV is completely free.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 28:00Conan O'Brien?

  These streamers, all these things cost so much money these days. And I won't mention that when I do an ad for them, but...

• 28:06Conan O'Brien?

  No subscription, no fees, zero dollars. And as any mathematician will tell you, zero is one of the most profound numbers ever conceived. I was thinking about that this morning.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Wow, that's profound.

• 28:16Conan O'Brien?

  I really wasn't. The best thing on TV are free. Escape to Pluto TV, stream now, pay never.

• 28:28Conan O'Brien?

  Schitt's Creek, initially, the reviews were...

• 28:31Speaker 02

  Mixed.

• 28:32Conan O'Brien?

  Were mixed and... And you were taking some heat for like, oh, is this, you know, is...

• 28:38Speaker 02

  I believe the New York Times called me untalented.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  Oof.

• 28:42Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  What the fuck?

• 28:43Conan O'Brien?

  Well...

• 28:44Speaker 02

  And, yeah, in the review, in the review of season one. And the problem with doing press around something when these articles are coming out is you then have to swallow the fact that the New... Everybody is reading the New York Times.

• 28:59Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  Reading, like, I don't know if it was the word was untalented, but that was the takeaway that I took from it. It was not kind.

• 29:06Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  And then you kind of had to go and be like... I'm really excited about the show that I'm making. Anyway, cut to six years later, they wrote a glowing review of our final

• 29:19Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 29:19Speaker 02

  episode, and you sometimes just have to keep working.

• 29:23Conan O'Brien?

  Yes.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  To prove yourself, and I'm fine with that.

• 29:25Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, I, I mean, this is funny because you mentioned this with the, in Kennedy, you don't want to leg up, you almost want the punishment. I realized that I had kind of a self-hating thing that was very comfortable with the punishment early on.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 29:40Conan O'Brien?

  And then when things turned around, by the time they turned around, I felt much more confident because I felt like I hadn't been floating along on a lot of hot air, certainly. And it, it can feel beneficial, you know, to, to, to walk through that in the beginning.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 29:58Conan O'Brien?

  And find your way.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  I also feel very lucky about the fact that nobody really watched Schitt's Creek until it was done. So we were able to just make the show we wanted. How rare is that?

• 30:08Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  To make six seasons of a TV show with absolutely no expectations from an audience. Nobody cared. We were hustling till the end, and then it wasn't until I had finished writing the last episode of our sixth season, the series finale, that people started to pay attention. So we had this wonderful kind of window where, due to, you know, luck and circumstance, we were able to stay on the air for six amazing seasons.

• 30:34Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  But nobody cared.

• 30:36Conan O'Brien?

  But also.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  So.

• 30:38Conan O'Brien?

  But.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  Great.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  I cared.

• 30:39Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  I definitely cared.

• 30:41Conan O'Brien?

  But also what's nice is now they're done and we are a culture now. I think there is upsides and downsides to the modern streaming world we live in. A big upside is shows that I love, like an Arrested Development or a Schitt's Creek, they're there for me at all times.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 31:01Conan O'Brien?

  And you can go through and you, you can page through them like having a classic novel around the house.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 31:07Conan O'Brien?

  It's really lovely, and I remembered thinking this before she passed, I remember thinking it was such a nice. Thing for Catherine to have that role during that last decade of her life where she was playing someone who was beloved, because people love the character and they're really getting to see yet another way that she's really funny and she was very proud of it. And I think people were always coming up to her saying, "We love you on Schitt's Creek." It was such a nice thing.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  It's the greatest.

• 31:37Conan O'Brien?

  For her that you, you made happen.

• 31:39Speaker 02

  She made it happen. I just made sure that I was prepared.

• 31:43Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  That's really what it came down to. Like, so much of Moira Rose was Catherine.

• 31:49Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  As, as is every character she, I mean, you know, Seth Rogen was talking about this recently about, you know, how the amazing thing about Catherine is they, she would email them the night before being like, "Gentlemen, some thoughts about the scenes we're shooting tomorrow." And it would be a full top to tail rewrite. And as soon as he said it, it was like, I, I got those, I got those emails.

• 32:14Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, that's great.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  The gentlemen, it always started with, "Gentlemen, some thoughts." And then it was an unbelievable rewrite of the scene. And that is what the amazing, all the great Catherine roles were when she found collaborators that wanted to give her that platform.

• 32:32Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  You know, because she had so much to offer and she was so, her, the way that she thinks is so on another level.

• 32:40Conan O'Brien?

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  That as a writer, you can't get into her head. So all you can really do is set the table, wait for the email, "Gentlemen, some thoughts." Read the scene and say, "Fuck yeah." You know, and like, just be prepared.

• 32:55Conan O'Brien?

  Sure.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  You know, she told me how she wanted to look on the show. My job was to make sure that in a wardrobe fitting, we had everything that would excite her.

• 33:03Conan O'Brien?

  Well, this, this I have to break in because you just brought up a topic that came to my mind, which is the wardrobe.

• 33:09Speaker 02

  Uh-huh.

• 33:10Conan O'Brien?

  For the show was, you know, a star of the show as well.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 33:15Conan O'Brien?

  And it always reminded me a little bit of Gilligan's Island where the premise was these, these people get together for a three hour. Tour, a storm hits, they're washed up on an island. Um, and every time you see the howls, they're wearing these absurd different outfits. And they just said, yes, they brought a trunk of their clothes with them.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:35Conan O'Brien?

  On a three hour tour. And it was in trunk that was like out of Hogwarts.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  That could last for years.

• 33:41Conan O'Brien?

  There's Belgian armor in there. There's Shakespearean garb. Every single thing you would ever need. And I remembered having that thought about Schitt's Creek, which is they had money. And then.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  Lost it, but got to keep every piece of clothing.

• 33:56Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 33:56Speaker 02

  And somehow store it in a motel.

• 33:59Conan O'Brien?

  Very small motel.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  Often booked up.

• 34:01Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  In our mind, all of their clothes were stored in the upstairs above the lobby of the motel.

• 34:09Conan O'Brien?

  But also, I love.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  That's how we rationalize it.

• 34:12Conan O'Brien?

  But I love that. I love that. You do seem to me like someone who does his homework. I'm sure you were doing all of the character work and figuring out down to the smallest detail.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  But to that point, those clothes did so much of the character work for us.

• 34:27Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  All I had to do was make sure the racks looked good. And they, they were nuts. And that we had, you know, huge, sky high heels and like knee high boots and mini skirts made out of latex. And at some point, there were some, I, I would source these, these designer pieces that sometimes required us to contact the designer to find out how to put them on.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  There's a dress that Catherine wears.

• 34:55Conan O'Brien?

  You enter through the arm.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  No joke.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  There's a very classic scene where Moira Rose is being photographed in a field by a character we called Sebastian Rain, who was played by Francois Arnaud, who is now of heated rivalry.

• 35:12Conan O'Brien?

  Yep.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  Fame.

• 35:12Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  And she is in a latex. Dress that had to be tied with a shirt underneath. And we couldn't figure out how to tie the latex because putting a tie around latex is like rubber rubbing against rubber.

• 35:28Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 35:28Speaker 02

  So at one point, there were like four people around Catherine, like one with a foot on her back, one trying to tie the latex. I'm like swirling around her being like, can you breathe? Are you feeling good? Is everything okay?

• 35:41Conan O'Brien?

  Misting her.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  And that was when Catherine was like at her most excited.

• 35:46Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:46Speaker 02

  When the costumes were so insane that it took five people to put them on. And then boots that were laced up that took 10 minutes and then we'd, she'd walk onto set, you would hear kind of gasps from the crew.

• 35:58Conan O'Brien?

  Yep.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  Because they never knew what she was gonna show up wearing and looking like, depending on the wigs as well. And it was the joy of seeing Catherine excited. There is no greater joy for me.

• 36:11Conan O'Brien?

  But also, I mean, you got to wear great stuff.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  I wore a lot of drop crotch pants and they were all really comfortable, actually. So that's all you can ask for. I mean, wearing double-faced cashmere in the dead of summer in Toronto outside was tough, but I won't complain about it.

• 36:29Conan O'Brien?

  We all pay our dues.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  That's exactly it.

• 36:31Conan O'Brien?

  The, uh, I always heard that Sarah Jessica Parker owned like her deal when she was making Sex and the City was she gets to own all the dresses and that they're in a massive warehouse somewhere and she owns them all and they're, and I'm thinking, I hope you had that deal with Shit's Crazy.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  Are you fucking crazy?

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Do you understand how little that show costs? We had to sell every piece of clothing.

• 36:57Conan O'Brien?

  Sure, yeah.

• 36:58Speaker 02

  To pay off the debts that the show had, even in our sixth season. Wow. We got no cash. It was like slim pickings from the very beginning and then incremental sort of, I think it's like a standard 15%, whatever it is that your budget can increase. But, you know, 15% on like a pile of shells and a feather is not giving you much. So we had to sell it all. I kept four looks. I kept four of Catherine's looks, four of Annie's looks, and four of my looks. Unfortunately, my dad's suits, we can just buy in a store.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  But, so I have some. The retrospective will be small. But I do have some of the looks.

• 37:40Conan O'Brien?

  So the museum is gonna be like a little nook in a mall?

• 37:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. It'll be a corner. Yeah.

• 37:45Conan O'Brien?

  Here they are, the four outfits.

• 37:47Speaker 02

  That's right. Moths got to them, but it's fine. They were kept in my parents' basement in Toronto, where they still are. In a, in a plastic bin, so we'll see.

• 37:58Conan O'Brien?

  How the show ends, and I know that people are probably all saying to you, as they do in this business, or really any business, once you have a success, "Hey, what's the next thing?"

• 38:09Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 38:09Conan O'Brien?

  And, um, I have never known what the next thing is, uh, and go into like a weird, slovenly bunk.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  I did say to my, my wonderful team of people, I will, I cannot hear the word momentum ever again.

• 38:26Conan O'Brien?

  Right, right.

• 38:26Speaker 02

  I don't, it means nothing to me. Momentum, I feel like, is, is a word that forces people to make bad decisions.

• 38:34Conan O'Brien?

  Wow, that's good.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  I just, a- and yet, this is a, an industry that's like, "You're hot, you're hot, you're hot. Uh, what about this?" And someone says yes, and you do it, and suddenly you're, it's, you're spread too thin. We see it all the time. I, I, I don't know, I feel like I've been lucky enough to really care about the quality of the work, because to me, if what I'm putting out there isn't good, then why am I doing it?

• 39:00Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 39:01Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? I worked at a bakery and a video store. I can go back if I have to. Oh, the video store, wow. You can trim that, right?

• 39:10Conan O'Brien?

  No, we can't.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  I worked on a TikTok.

• 39:12Conan O'Brien?

  We're gonna put that on a loop, yeah.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  It's not fun.

• 39:17Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 39:17Speaker 02

  And there's no, I mean, you know, to work on things you don't care about, it's just not fun. So I would rather take the time and risk... The lack of momentum.

• 39:26Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  And put something out that continues to like excite people, then take every opportunity and not be maybe even the best fit for the opportunity that crosses my path.

• 39:38Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, it's a really interesting point you make about momentum because that is a thing. You've got to strike while the iron is hot. You know, you just had a hit movie, you've got to write a book instantly.

• 39:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:48Conan O'Brien?

  And no one.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  Did I sell Tostitos chips? Absolutely.

• 39:52Conan O'Brien?

  Do you regret it? No, you do not.

• 39:53Speaker 02

  Absolutely not. I was making a Canadian TV show, okay? Even at the end, we weren't making like.

• 39:59Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  It's different. So when Tostitos, I love a Tostitos chip.

• 40:04Conan O'Brien?

  You know what?

• 40:04Speaker 02

  Anyway.

• 40:05Conan O'Brien?

  Can I just say one other thing? It's a good chip.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  It is.

• 40:09Conan O'Brien?

  It's a good chip.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  Are you preparing yourself for eventually becoming a Tostitos guy?

• 40:14Conan O'Brien?

  I'm just putting it out there. That if Dan wants to do something with me and a Tostitos.

• 40:19Speaker 02

  Again, the like, the humble side of myself was like, don't make it seem like you didn't take the, you know.

• 40:25Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 40:25Speaker 02

  The ads. I took the ads. I enjoyed them. I was able to make them my own.

• 40:29Conan O'Brien?

  Yes. Well, to me, the great revenge is if you can make one of those things funny and in your voice.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 40:34Conan O'Brien?

  Then it becomes something you would have made anyway.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 40:37Conan O'Brien?

  Uh, which is always the dream.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  That is the dream.

• 40:40Conan O'Brien?

  But I'm just curious, you're in this period then where you need to think, you need some time and time goes by and you've worked on other things, but then this idea comes along. Uh, and did you have this idea?

• 40:54Speaker 02

  This show idea?

• 40:55Conan O'Brien?

  This show idea.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  Well, in between that show, I made a very small movie called Good Grief, uh, for Netflix, which was exactly what they wanted me to make after the success of Schitt's Creek. A small film on the rumination of grief, just examining the, the small ins and outs of how a group of friends deal with grief.

• 41:16Conan O'Brien?

  You want laughs? We got laughs.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  And I was so aware of it at the time when I, when I pitched it too. And you know, you're, you're looking at very kind executives being like.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  And then, and then, and that's it. Okay, great. And they made the movie and I was so happy because it got me through such a hard time in my life and I'm so proud of the film. But yes, now we are back to comedy.

• 41:40Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  And I'm, again, but I do think if you have curiosity, you have to, I think that's why the second album from an artist is always kind of the experimental one.

• 41:50Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Because when they have success in one area, like a record, you'll listen to an unbelievable record, like Jagged Little Pill, for example. And then you have supposed former Infatuation Junkie, which is like similar, but very different. But I think you need the freedom to play in another area, to show yourself that you have the ability to do other things because the industry can make you feel like, oh, you're that guy.

• 42:17Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:17Speaker 02

  So that's what you do and you'll do that. And I did. I got like really a lot of scripts where I was asked to play essentially a worse-written David Rose.

• 42:31Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  And I was like, I did that better than this. So I don't want to do that again.

• 42:37Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  I want to tell a small story about friends who are dealing with grief and then I'll get back to the comedy.

• 42:44Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  But I have to know what else is out there in order to feel confident enough to come back into the space that gave me everything I have now and be excited to come back to it.

• 42:54Conan O'Brien?

  Right. Well, I mean, as I said earlier, David and I were watching a couple of the episodes and really enjoying it. It's really funny. And the first thing I noticed before the show even began is that this is something that you worked on with Rachel Sennett.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:09Conan O'Brien?

  And, um, and I thought immediately like, well, love Dan, love Rachel, very much looking forward to this. And then didn't disappoint.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 43:17Conan O'Brien?

  It was really funny.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  I'm really happy with it. Um.

• 43:20Conan O'Brien?

  And you know what's interesting is right away, it's revealed that your character is a pastor, like in the first frame. And it's, and it almost so felt like you throwing down a gauntlet, like, no, this is not David.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  It's not David. It couldn't be farther from David Rose.

• 43:36Conan O'Brien?

  You, and it was so smart. Because in this one fell swoop, you're like, oh, he, this is, no. By, by making him a pastor, you're a completely different person.

• 43:46Speaker 02

  That's right. Um, it was, you know, I, I, it wasn't even a conscious thing. I think it was just curiosity. I wanted to do something different. I never get the opportunity to be part of a crime thing, you know? I, it's just not, I guess, what people see me as. So part of what was exciting to write the show, and when I thought about like, well, you know, when you commit to TV, it's a lot, it can potentially be a long journey, exciting journey, but a long journey, you better like what you're writing. Otherwise you're in trouble. And the idea of finding a way through both comedy and crime felt really exciting to me because it's so far from my comfort zone. The idea of being blackmailed into organized crime is a horrible phobia that I have.

• 44:29Conan O'Brien?

  That is the most specific phobia I've ever heard of in my life.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  Generally speaking, I hate being trapped in things.

• 44:36Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 44:36Speaker 02

  So the concept of being blackmailed into organized crime, you are stuck. You're not getting, the chances of you getting out of that situation, it's not good. And if you're me in that situation,

• 44:48Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  You're done. Bye bye. So that felt exciting. And I, I brought the idea to Rachel. She loved it. We worked on it for, you know, eight months and wrote the pilot in a night. And it, it was just, it was, it's great. It was so fun to act. It was so fun to write.

• 45:08Conan O'Brien?

  I have to talk about your, your sister is played by Taylor Ortega.

• 45:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:13Conan O'Brien?

  And she's really funny and I was not as familiar with her. I didn't know Taylor. And I'm watching her with you in this show. Um, and it feels like a real brother sister thing.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:28Conan O'Brien?

  It feels very real. And one of the things I think works so well is you are. Um, you are so good when your character is in peril and desperate. You're so funny doing, not even quiet desperation. But, um, you, you play that so well. And what you've put yourself into consciously or not is a situation where you are always in terrible peril.

• 45:55Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 45:56Conan O'Brien?

  From maybe six minutes, five minutes into the show, you're in peril. And then the, the show just keeps turning the crank.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:05Conan O'Brien?

  So you keep getting funnier and funnier and funnier as you're in more and more peril. And of course, you have this sister, Taylor, who's very different from you. And, uh, you know, more assertive and, and, uh, but also she's really funny in these situations. And, and the fact that you two still bicker when your lives are at risk. Made me really happy. So there's a lot of that.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  That to me was the, was what is the show.

• 46:30Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  It's like, you know, playing with the audience in terms of saying, okay, what if this were you? And your sibling? You wouldn't change the dynamic just because of the circumstance. You would be bickering in the back of a truck.

• 46:46Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. Well, this is, you're, you're pointing out one of the situations. And I don't think I'm giving away too much. It's just a little thing that I, that gives you a sense of the show. Is you guys are, are in the back of a truck. You're in great peril. And then you see an opportunity to flee, so you start to run. She starts yelling at you that it's not a good idea. You start, stop, start yelling back at her that it is a good idea. And you two are fighting about whether or not you should flee while the bad guy comes back. And I thought the, the fact that sibling, sibling bitterness and bickering.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  It never ends.

• 47:22Conan O'Brien?

  Overrides the, uh, instinct to live.

• 47:27Conan O'Brien?

  That made me really happy.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  That's the joy of the show.

• 47:33Conan O'Brien?

  These are two people that will, if they're forced to get into a common grave,

• 47:36Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 47:36Conan O'Brien?

  will be arguing with each other.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 47:38Conan O'Brien?

  About who should get shot second as opposed to first.

• 47:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:42Conan O'Brien?

  And I feel like, okay, you've got a lot of runway with that idea.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  Oh, it's, that's always like the greatest realization when you're like deep into a season and you're like, oh, we're just getting started. You know, like, that's the fun. And in finding Taylor, again, it's like, I had this with Annie in, in Shits.

• 48:01Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 48:01Speaker 02

  Finding somebody who has done the work, found the job, and is ready to go, and showing them to the world, that's a thrill.

• 48:10Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  One of the many thrills of this show, you know, working with Laurie Metcalf, one of the-

• 48:16Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, who's, by the way-

• 48:17Speaker 02

  Unbelievable.

• 48:17Conan O'Brien?

  She's your mom, and she is, even when she's doing the subtlest thing.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:24Conan O'Brien?

  She's absolutely hilarious. And, you know, the insufferable mom is a character that's been played a million times, and then Laurie Metcalf does it. And you're, it's a whole new thing.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  It is. And she's so good. And it was, I mean, I've been a fan of hers for, you know, like, it goes back and back and back.

• 48:44Speaker 02

  But yeah, you know, Taylor is, I'm so excited for people to see her. I'm so excited for her to get what she's worked so hard for. You know, I think that's, it's, there's something thrilling about introducing somebody to an audience. Because so often now, it's like, you can't green light a show unless it's a stacked cast.

• 49:06Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  So to continue to tell stories with relatively up and coming actors is, for me, is thrilling. I include Laurie Metcalf as a relatively up and coming actor.

• 49:16Conan O'Brien?

  She'll make it. You know, this was the project where I finally thought-

• 49:19Speaker 02

  This is her breakout, so-

• 49:21Conan O'Brien?

  She's arrived.

• 49:22Speaker 02

  I'm so excited for her.

• 49:24Conan O'Brien?

  You've talked a bunch in the, in the past or in interviews about anxiety, being, feeling insecure when you're growing up. And this is a topic that fascinates me because, like it or not, I think we probably have to accept that that's an essential ingredient sometimes to- The mixture.

• 49:43Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 49:43Conan O'Brien?

  Uh, and I can't explain why that would be the case. Um, and I feel like I'm legitimizing that kind of anxiety or those kinds of mental issues. But at the same time, I also think, um, that was a big part of my situation coming along and I, if I had to do it again and didn't have that, I'm not sure.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  Wouldn't, I mean.

• 50:05Conan O'Brien?

  I would be here, you know?

• 50:06Speaker 02

  It's the, there are certain ingredients, albeit painful ingredients, that are necessary to, in my case, to the storytelling.

• 50:14Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  So much of what I write about is how families interact with each other under difficult circumstances. And if you come from a Yelly family.

• 50:25Conan O'Brien?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  I think this show in particular celebrates Yelly families.

• 50:29Conan O'Brien?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  I think of people who don't come from Yelly families will probably watch this in, in shock and horror.

• 50:36Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 50:36Speaker 02

  Um, but if you come from a Yelly family, it is a celebration of the fact that anxiety and nerves manifest in very loud aggression between people. And if I didn't experience that and inherit it, I wouldn't be here today.

• 50:53Conan O'Brien?

  Right.

• 50:53Speaker 02

  So as hard as it is, there does come a point, I think age is a big part of it too. Like I'm now 42, I don't care as much as I did when I was 20. When I was 20, everything was consequential.

• 51:06Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  And so when everything is consequential and you are an anxious person, you will worry about everything because you're so unaware of how little it matters in the end. So now I think I get to look back on my own experiences and kind of the experiences I've had with my family and all of that kind of stuff and, and celebrate it.

• 51:29Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 51:30Speaker 02

  Instead of continue to wear it. I'm a, I'm a less anxious person than I am now. And I, I do actually think at the core of the show, it's an, it's an examination of what we inherit, what that kind of ancestral trauma that kind of trickles down from, in this case, like matriarch to Lori to the kids, the, you know, the very first scene of the show.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  Nona is dying and she's a yeller. And then you instantly see that this yelling streak has just found its way through three generations of this family. And all we try to do as a generation below is push back against what we're inheriting.

• 52:16Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  And sometimes you can do it and sometimes you can't. You just have to let it happen. But it's fun to be able to like, write about the minutia of anxiety and how it affects people. I think it's endlessly entertaining.

• 52:29Conan O'Brien?

  Now, where do you, um, so when you're making the show, is the show made in Canada? Is it made in Los Angeles?

• 52:34Speaker 02

  No, in New Jersey.

• 52:35Conan O'Brien?

  In New Jersey, okay. So, um, where do you live? And I need an address.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  I'm, well, I, I have been in LA.

• 52:43Conan O'Brien?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  And relocated to New York City to make the show.

• 52:47Conan O'Brien?

  That's so cool.

• 52:48Speaker 02

  And we shot in New Jersey and it was very exciting to be back on the East Coast and experience seasons.

• 52:54Conan O'Brien?

  Is home, when you think of going home, is that Toronto? Is it LA now?

• 52:57Speaker 02

  It's LA.

• 52:58Conan O'Brien?

  LA, yeah. Okay. That's, it's, cause I think that, um, I'm always fascinated by that because home used to be Boston for me, but it's not anymore because I've been gone too long.

• 53:10Speaker 02

  And I think the more that the hometown changes, the less you can relate to it. Like I was just in, I just came from Toronto yesterday night and I look around and it's, it's just not the place that I grew up in. So when you look around and the place doesn't reflect the memories that you have, all you have are the memories. It becomes less and less about the actual place. So my life now is in Los Angeles. Most of my friends are in Los Angeles and, um, that is home. The hometown is, is, um, is a memory at this point.

• 53:46Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. But also, I think one of the-

• 53:48Speaker 02

  Even though my parents are still in my family house.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 53:51Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, is that true?

• 53:51Speaker 02

  In Toronto, right now.

• 53:53Conan O'Brien?

  Same house, all these years?

• 53:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:55Conan O'Brien?

  By the way, your mom's really funny.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  She is very funny.

• 53:58Conan O'Brien?

  She's-

• 53:58Speaker 02

  Arguably funnier than my dad.

• 54:00Conan O'Brien?

  Yes. Yeah. Who, by the way-

• 54:02Speaker 02

  And he'll admit that.

• 54:02Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah. Yeah. And I've told your dad all the time, I've never found him amusing.

• 54:07Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 54:08Conan O'Brien?

  And his eyebrows go up.

• 54:14Conan O'Brien?

  No, he is such a lovely man. And I met all these people for the first time when I did Aspen. They asked me, would you come out to do the Aspen Comedy Festival? And this is just when my show had kind of clicked in and it was starting to gel.

• 54:27Speaker 02

  I remember being like younger and thinking that was the coolest thing.

• 54:32Conan O'Brien?

  The Aspen.

• 54:32Speaker 02

  That he got to meet you.

• 54:33Conan O'Brien?

  Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, you got that wrong. But it was, I remember they said, Conan, we want someone to, you know, interview all the SCTV greats. And I thought, this is a make a wish. Like, I must be dying and no one told me. But I went and, you know, talked to everybody and interviewed them and did my preparation. And we did the thing. And when it was over, your dad said, hey, everybody. Everyone was starting to disperse. And your dad, like a camp counselor, said, hey, everybody. I think Conan put a lot of work into this and did a really nice job. And I think we should, you know, give him a round of applause. And I thought, what a like incredibly nice man to do that.

• 55:12Speaker 02

  That's so nice.

• 55:13Conan O'Brien?

  You know, like, he was taking care of me.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 55:16Conan O'Brien?

  He was, he saw like, oh, wait a minute, this guy. Let's, before we all go, let's make sure we do this. And that always, that touched me a lot at the moment.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  He's a very sweet man.

• 55:25Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  He's a very, like, soft, well-intentioned, sweet person. I did not inherit his goodness.

• 55:37Conan O'Brien?

  It says that here in your information.

• 55:39Speaker 02

  A genuinely kind, like, he just, it is, I can't just, I can't explain it. And the number of people that come up and are just like, your dad is so nice. And I'm like, I know.

• 55:51Conan O'Brien?

  But I can't help you.

• 55:52Speaker 02

  And you are also something.

• 55:59Conan O'Brien?

  Well, the show is Big Mistakes. It's really funny and I'm very happy for you.

• 56:05Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 56:05Conan O'Brien?

  And please come back anytime. And also, you're part of this, I get, I say this a lot, but I get very excited when I meet and get to hang out with, even briefly, younger talent that's part of this whole ecosystem. And the fact that is, you know, because we've had Rachel here.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 56:21Conan O'Brien?

  And having you here. And I'm just always very pleased. When I get to be around this whole, what I consider to be a childlike generation that's doing really good work, it makes me happy.

• 56:33Speaker 02

  Like, I get to relax. Let's not take that compliment, simply the youth factor, because I don't think I'm young at all.

• 56:38Conan O'Brien?

  Well, guess what? I am now.

• 56:39Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 56:39Conan O'Brien?

  I am at a, I'm at a vintage now where I'll meet a, I'll meet what I think is a kid and say, I think this kid's really coming along and I want to help this kid. And someone will tell me, they're 55.

• 56:53Conan O'Brien?

  That's their third hip.

• 56:54Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 56:57Speaker 02

  I'm so glad I invest in facials, you know what I mean? It's good to keep this kid looking young.

• 57:01Conan O'Brien?

  Whatever you're doing, keep doing.

• 57:02Speaker 02

  That's right. Anyway, I appreciate that, thank you.

• 57:04Conan O'Brien?

  This was, uh, this was great. Thank you so much for doing it.

• 57:06Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me, everybody. Appreciate it, thank you.

• 57:15Conan O'Brien?

  You know, winning an award, that's a big achievement, right?

• 57:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love awards.

• 57:18Conan O'Brien?

  Every now and then in life, maybe something nice like that comes your way. Winning them consistently is almost impossible. It just doesn't happen, you know? Well, guess what? Winning five times in six years? You know what that sounds like to me? Sustained excellence.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 57:33Conan O'Brien?

  Hyundai has done just that, earning the title of America's best SUV brand for 2026 from US News and World Report. You are a very happy Hyundai driver.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  I drive a Hyundai Palisade and I love my car. I love it. I love driving it around.

• 57:46Conan O'Brien?

  I've been tooling around in an Ioniq 5N, which I love. Beautiful car. Well, listen, whether you need an SUV for everyday life, your next big adventure, or extra room for family and friends, Hyundai has an option for you. The Tucson Hybrid is loaded with technology and built for everyday life. The Santa Fe Hybrid's fully capable and ready for adventure. The Palisade, that's yours, right?

• 58:05Speaker 01

  Hello!

• 58:06Conan O'Brien?

  They're gonna rename that the Sona. The Palisade Hybrid, yeah, delivers premium capability and class-leading interior space. With available, I have this memorized, H-Track all-wheel drive, up to an EPA-estimated 619 miles of range on vehicles like the Palisade Hybrid and Hyundai's industry-leading warranty. It's easy to see why Hyundai continues to deliver the quality innovation technology and value drivers expect from an award-winning brand. View US News Best Cars at cars.usnews.com and call 562-314-4603 for complete details.

• 58:39Conan O'Brien?

  Who do you shop for first on the holidays, Sona? Was it, do you shop for the kids or do you shop for Tac?

• 58:44Speaker 01

  My kids.

• 58:44Conan O'Brien?

  Okay, you gotta get them your stuff.

• 58:46Speaker 01

  Or my dog.

• 58:47Conan O'Brien?

  And then your husband is last. Well, guess what? It's that time of year, you feel that, you smell that cinnamon cider in the air? Do you smell that?

• 58:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:57Conan O'Brien?

  And you see pumpkins around, people buying turkeys. A little early to buy a turkey, doesn't matter. Holidays, I would say it's just around the corner, but that's a cliche. It's very nearby in the cupboard. Well, guess what? Amazon delivers joy with low prices on the gifts you want, even this early in the season. So get ahead of the season, shop early gifts, top picks, holiday decor, and advent calendars at low prices. Get ahead, start on holiday gifting with Amazon's low prices. Shop now at amazon.com/holidays.

• 59:33Conan O'Brien?

  Sona, you have to admit, the holidays, it's really about hanging with the people you love.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:39Conan O'Brien?

  And getting to be yourself. Not going to some stuffy holiday party where you need to conform to what the man wants you to think about the holidays.

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:49Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, it's about being yourself. Turn your holiday time into Miller time by enjoying a Miller Lite in a place where you're free to enjoy yourself on a walk with a cousin. With a cousin, why are they getting all specific about it?

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  Because it's family.

• 1:00:00Conan O'Brien?

  But what about a niece or a nephew?

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:04Conan O'Brien?

  Like a walk with an ex-wife? I don't know, I mean, they're just throwing, that's a weird, they just made a very specific choice.

• 1:00:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:11Conan O'Brien?

  Now's the time for those unexpected holiday side guests and enjoy a great tasting light beer. 'Tis Miller time, as Dickens wrote. Miller Lite is brewed for taste, the taste you can depend on. The original light beer since 1975 and still iconic more than 50 years later. I like to be with my bros, my chums, my posse. Crack open a Miller Lite, take a swig, a sip, look around and see my friends. We've known each other forever and we're just hanging out.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, you guys are just doing chest bumps and high-fiving.

• 1:00:41Conan O'Brien?

  Miller Lite is great taste done right. Go to millerlite.com/conan to find delivery options near you or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. 'Tis Miller time. Celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

• 1:01:03Conan O'Brien?

  All right, we gotta get to the bottom of something. Uh, recently, on a podcast episode, it came to my attention, uh, cause I, Blay was, was babbling and blurting. And Blay, you mentioned that your mom does your taxes. It was then revealed to us that, well, she doesn't do your taxes, she takes, she calls another tax service.

• 1:01:25Speaker 05

  She uses TurboTax.

• 1:01:26Conan O'Brien?

  She uses TurboTax to take care of your taxes.

• 1:01:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's fantastic.

• 1:01:29Conan O'Brien?

  For you.

• 1:01:30Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 1:01:30Conan O'Brien?

  Um, she demands to do it, by the way. I just wanna make that clear. I'm not asking her to do it. She gets upset when I even toss the idea out of me.

• 1:01:39Speaker 05

  Sure, sure, understood. Okay.

• 1:01:40Conan O'Brien?

  And that's not what we're gonna go after here.

• 1:01:42Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:01:43Conan O'Brien?

  What I wanna investigate is you brought up at a certain point that you, um, you write off your various, I'm gonna call them trinkets, doodads, what do you call them? Memorabilia?

• 1:01:55Speaker 05

  I would say...

• 1:01:56Conan O'Brien?

  Arcana?

• 1:01:57Speaker 05

  That still feels, this, it feels reductive. They're, they're objects of, uh, power that I love to buy.

• 1:02:03Conan O'Brien?

  What are you talking about?

• 1:02:05Speaker 05

  So, listen, listen, no, I'm a collector. I like stuff. I, I'm a collector of great items. Okay, and, and things like, things, I'm gonna give you a great example.

• 1:02:13Conan O'Brien?

  You're like Channing Jordan, a collector of great items?

• 1:02:15Speaker 05

  No, no, no, I just, I, I wanna-

• 1:02:16Conan O'Brien?

  Swords, like battle swords?

• 1:02:18Speaker 05

  Okay, yes. Like, I, I bought a really cool Batman statue, um-

• 1:02:23Conan O'Brien?

  Statue of Batman?

• 1:02:24Speaker 05

  That's right, a Batman statue done by, in the style like Sergio, you know, the Mad T, the Mad Magazine guy?

• 1:02:30Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:31Speaker 05

  Um-

• 1:02:31Conan O'Brien?

  I think it's Aragonis, I believe.

• 1:02:33Speaker 05

  Aragonis, that's right. Uh, I have a number of swords, um, you know, flamethrower, I just got an axe. But not just weapons, also cool-

• 1:02:41Conan O'Brien?

  But also, not just weapons, you also have like, stuff relating to, uh, various things you're into, whether it's-

• 1:02:46Speaker 05

  I have a dinosaur egg, a brontosaurus egg.

• 1:02:48Conan O'Brien?

  A real one?

• 1:02:49Speaker 05

  That's right.

• 1:02:49Conan O'Brien?

  Okay.

• 1:02:50Speaker 05

  Uh, and, uh, you know, meteorites, I have several, like, three or four meteorites. I have a cool, uh, it's actually 70 million years old, it's a whale vertebrae.

• 1:02:57Conan O'Brien?

  Sure, yeah.

• 1:02:58Speaker 05

  It's a giant, it's kind of like the size of two-

• 1:03:00Conan O'Brien?

  So I shouldn't have said memorabilia, you collect shit.

• 1:03:03Speaker 05

  And you have a lot of shit, um, and you write it off-

• 1:03:09Conan O'Brien?

  Because you said you managed to mention it on the podcast.

• 1:03:14Speaker 05

  Well, we use it for the podcast.

• 1:03:15Conan O'Brien?

  How do we use it?

• 1:03:16Speaker 05

  Because it's the basis of comedy bits like this today.

• 1:03:19Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:03:20Speaker 05

  It's a basis of a comedy bit. You just had him list off.

• 1:03:22Speaker 07

  He just listed 20 things, which I'm sure is.

• 1:03:25Speaker 05

  And also, like, so, for instance, summer smores. Summer smores, I bought a big broadsword at the Ren Faire.

• 1:03:32Conan O'Brien?

  Which was your idea. Here's my point. I don't say, wouldn't it be cool if someone here had a broadsword? And you said, I happen to have one, and you brought it in, and then you were able to write it off. You go out and buy stuff, and then you insert it into the podcast.

• 1:03:45Speaker 05

  Well, can I?

• 1:03:45Conan O'Brien?

  So that you can then write it off. And that's why I brought in Mr. David Melmed, who is our attorney, who's helped us many times in the past. I sense fraud.

• 1:03:57Speaker 06

  I don't know about fraud.

• 1:03:58Conan O'Brien?

  See, there we go.

• 1:03:59Speaker 06

  But.

• 1:04:00Conan O'Brien?

  But.

• 1:04:01Speaker 06

  But. But. In terms of what the IRS may be looking at, we're talking about Section 162 of the Internal Revenue Code.

• 1:04:11Conan O'Brien?

  162, and what does Section 162 say?

• 1:04:14Speaker 06

  Ordinary and necessary expenses can be deductible. Now, I guess the question is, are those ordinary and necessary?

• 1:04:23Conan O'Brien?

  Are they necessary?

• 1:04:25Speaker 05

  It says "and" necessary.

• 1:04:27Conan O'Brien?

  And.

• 1:04:27Speaker 05

  Is comedy necessary to this podcast?

• 1:04:29Conan O'Brien?

  Wait a minute, wait a minute. It's not comedy. A brontosaurus egg is not comedy until you foist it upon the podcast. You barrel your way into the podcast and say, "Look what I got. I got a brontosaurus egg." And we're all like, what the fuck are you talking about, Blay?

• 1:04:45Speaker 05

  Let Melmed finish. And Melmed, what's the rest of the law?

• 1:04:48Conan O'Brien?

  Let Melmed finish when you don't like the way I'm going. Go ahead.

• 1:04:50Speaker 06

  I like the way you're going.

• 1:04:51Conan O'Brien?

  Let's rest the law.

• 1:04:52Speaker 06

  In connection with the podcast.

• 1:04:53Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, okay.

• 1:04:54Speaker 06

  All right, so, let's take your brontosaurus egg, for example, right?

• 1:04:57Conan O'Brien?

  Let's.

• 1:04:58Speaker 06

  Let's get past the ordinary and necessary. If you didn't bring it into the podcast,

• 1:05:03Conan O'Brien?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:05:04Speaker 06

  would someone bring it up? Or is this something that you're doing to get a write-off?

• 1:05:10Conan O'Brien?

  Ooh.

• 1:05:10Speaker 06

  And I'm not gonna put you on the, but I'm just.

• 1:05:12Conan O'Brien?

  Well, how do they know I have a brontosaurus egg if I don't bring it in? Well, okay.

• 1:05:15Speaker 06

  He's mentioned it. We all know he has a dinosaur egg.

• 1:05:18Conan O'Brien?

  This is becoming an insane Who's on?

• 1:05:19Speaker 05

  First routine.

• 1:05:20Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:21Speaker 05

  Um, no, I wouldn't have said, you know what this podcast needs is a broadsword? Or what it needs is a brontosaurus egg. I would never bring up any of those things.

• 1:05:30Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 1:05:30Speaker 05

  And they're not comedy in and of themselves. You are buying this stuff because you love it. And then you're saying, I gotta get this stuff onto Conan's podcast. Um, and then you're claiming that it was a necessary part of your job.

• 1:05:46Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 1:05:47Speaker 05

  That to me feels all backwards.

• 1:05:49Speaker 06

  It could, well, so I'm gonna go a little deeper on this.

• 1:05:52Speaker 05

  Let's let the law decide.

• 1:05:53Speaker 06

  I'm gonna go a little deeper. So there's really two sides to this, right? There's talent, right? And company expenses. So if he's bringing this on as on air talent, using the mic, that's one thing. If you are, for example, using this as a company expense, or an expense that the company would deduct, that could eat into the net revenue of the podcast.

• 1:06:16Speaker 05

  So can I ask a question?

• 1:06:17Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:06:18Speaker 05

  In terms of company expenses, so you're saying if I were to use the sword to defend Conan off mic, that's a company expense?

• 1:06:25Speaker 06

  No, it would have to be in connection with the podcast itself.

• 1:06:28Speaker 05

  That's what I'm saying. Like, he comes in to do the podcast and I'm using, I'm defending him physically from attackers.

• 1:06:34Conan O'Brien?

  I'm seeing why you're not a lawyer. Oh, Jesus.

• 1:06:36Speaker 06

  It's now, it's now apparent to me.

• 1:06:38Speaker 05

  I'm just asking a question. Socratic method. All right. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:06:40Speaker 06

  Yeah, I do. So, so the act itself is not deductible, right? But, but the, but, right? So you coming in with your sword?

• 1:06:48Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:06:48Speaker 06

  But us sort of cleaning up that mess could be deductible.

• 1:06:52Speaker 05

  So I'm just saying like, that mess. But I'm saying like, okay, there's two things. There's talent, right?

• 1:06:57Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:06:57Speaker 05

  There's talent. Okay.

• 1:06:58Speaker 06

  Conan fell asleep?

• 1:06:59Speaker 05

  To make Conan safe.

• 1:07:00Conan O'Brien?

  I didn't fall asleep. I just got super sad.

• 1:07:02Speaker 05

  Where we were, when we were in Altadena, when we recorded Summer Smores and I brought in my sword.

• 1:07:07Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:07Speaker 05

  Part, we did a bit where we could hear wild animals that were crazy screaming in the distance, right?

• 1:07:12Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:12Speaker 05

  So could I argue to the IRS, I'm there to defend Conan?

• 1:07:16Conan O'Brien?

  No, boy.

• 1:07:16Speaker 06

  You're being crazy.

• 1:07:17Speaker 05

  No, I'm just saying, I, look, you think that people don't write stuff off in crazy ways? I'm, I'm, I'm bobbing and weaving.

• 1:07:24Conan O'Brien?

  You know, oh, hold on a second. I don't treat the IRS that way. Um, but I guess you like to bob and weave and try and trick Uncle Sam out of his rightful do. Uh, I think.

• 1:07:33Speaker 05

  Johnny Law's got his scratch. He doesn't need my couple bucks.

• 1:07:35Conan O'Brien?

  Okay, you gotta settle down. I'm gonna take you off mic for a little bit.

• 1:07:38Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:07:38Conan O'Brien?

  I wish I had a button that silenced Blay.

• 1:07:39Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:07:40Conan O'Brien?

  And I would use it so routinely. I might have just put a bunch of books on top of it.

• 1:07:43Speaker 05

  I'm talking, I'll stop talking.

• 1:07:46Conan O'Brien?

  I want a silence Blay button right here and then I'm going to build permanent structures on top of it. I'm not comfortable with this interpretation. I do think we all need to pay our fair share. I think that those things you're buying, they bring you pleasure, they bring you joy. I haven't unreleased the button yet. This is the button and when I touch it.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  I have, I have a question too when you're done.

• 1:08:09Conan O'Brien?

  Okay. You'll have the floor after me and then, and then anyone else who wants to. But anyway, yeah, I guess my issue is these are his hobbies. And then through the grace of some god we don't understand who works in mysterious ways. He has access to this podcast and he's bullied his way up to a mic. And now he's inserting himself into the show and saying, hey, you know what I was thinking about this morning? I was thinking about the Scarlet Witch's cape. That's what I was thinking about. I'm like, the Scarlet Witch? Yeah, she's a Marvel heroine. I was thinking about her cape and I bought one. Let's have fun talking about that. It all feels manipulative.

• 1:08:53Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 1:08:53Conan O'Brien?

  It feels sinister and it feels like it is, I don't know. It doesn't feel like it's in the spirit of the law.

• 1:09:02Speaker 06

  It's a bit overreaching.

• 1:09:03Conan O'Brien?

  Yes, yes, it's overreaching. And then let me, hold on, we'll get to you Blay eventually. I don't know what month, but we'll get there. Sona, what do you want to say?

• 1:09:11Speaker 01

  I wanted to say, all of these things are what make Blay, Blay.

• 1:09:16Conan O'Brien?

  I know.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, and you've mined a lot of that from him, who he is. You've talked about his watches a lot. You've talked about the fact that he has a giant wall size print out of his face in his apartment.

• 1:09:27Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, we don't need to say, we don't need to give him more ammunition.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  What is Blay without the dinosaur eggs?

• 1:09:32Conan O'Brien?

  But listen, but listen, I can see his watches. I can see these things and I, Blay doesn't need to work at making himself seem more ridiculous or man-childy. He doesn't need to work at it. It's all, this is my problem sometimes with Blay is that he should just trust in his natural nerdiness and his natural Peter Pan syndrome, you know? No, and this is all the stuff that you have. It's natural and I can see that you wear a different ironic watch every day that never costs more than $3 and often doesn't have hands on it. So you can't tell time because you've got nowhere to be. I can see all this shit myself. I don't need help.

• 1:10:13Conan O'Brien?

  But when you come in and yours plan is today I'm gonna dominate the podcast with my brontosaurus egg that I just bought, then I smell a rat. I smell a rat.

• 1:10:25Speaker 05

  Can I speak?

• 1:10:26Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:26Speaker 05

  Okay. Here's what I want to say. I think it is, to Sona's point, we do, there's a lot, we come up with a lot of bits on the spot on this podcast, and yes, I have a lot of cool stuff, alright?

• 1:10:41Conan O'Brien?

  No, you don't.

• 1:10:42Speaker 05

  No, I gotta, I gotta like-

• 1:10:43Conan O'Brien?

  You don't have a lot of cool stuff.

• 1:10:44Speaker 05

  I have a lot of stuff, fine, fine, fine, fine. But my point being, I have this stuff anyway. I think, I think it's, what I want to say is, I don't go into-

• 1:10:54Speaker 06

  You have it anyway.

• 1:10:55Speaker 05

  Well, no, no, no, listen, listen.

• 1:10:56Conan O'Brien?

  You just said that, like-

• 1:10:57Speaker 05

  No, listen, listen.

• 1:10:58Conan O'Brien?

  You should, you may want to revise-

• 1:10:59Speaker 05

  What I meant was, what I meant was-

• 1:11:00Conan O'Brien?

  Hold on, freeze, freeze.

• 1:11:01Speaker 06

  You may want to revise that.

• 1:11:03Conan O'Brien?

  Go ahead.

• 1:11:03Speaker 06

  You don't, if you had it anyway, you probably couldn't deduct it.

• 1:11:07Speaker 05

  But when I-

• 1:11:07Speaker 06

  So I'm giving you a chance to revise it.

• 1:11:10Speaker 05

  But what I'm saying is like this, what I'm saying is-

• 1:11:11Conan O'Brien?

  Do you want to fix what you just said?

• 1:11:13Speaker 05

  I'll, I'll say this, I'm not gonna fix it because it's honest. I have a sword, okay? Right? I have a sword.

• 1:11:20Speaker 01

  Many swords.

• 1:11:20Speaker 05

  And I'm going to the Ren Faire, alright? And I'm at the Ren Faire, and I'm like, oh man, I should get a sword and bring it in because it could be a good comedy bit. So I buy another sword, and that's what I'm writing off because it's for a comedy bit. I'm not writing off the one I already have. I'm like, I'm taking things from my life and heightening them to use a comedy term.

• 1:11:41Conan O'Brien?

  Okay, so why, why do you think this show needs so much help with comedy?

• 1:11:45Speaker 05

  I don't think it needs help.

• 1:11:46Conan O'Brien?

  Why do you think this show is just, is, is, is bereft of all entertainment unless you go out and buy a feathered helmet?

• 1:11:53Speaker 05

  I serve-

• 1:11:54Conan O'Brien?

  And bring it in to save us.

• 1:11:55Speaker 05

  I serve-

• 1:11:56Conan O'Brien?

  To save-

• 1:11:57Speaker 05

  No, no, no, no.

• 1:11:57Conan O'Brien?

  Poor Conan O'Brien can't think of a thing.

• 1:11:59Speaker 05

  That's, that's-

• 1:12:00Conan O'Brien?

  Guess what I bought? I just bought some underwear made of caramel at a Ren Faire.

• 1:12:04Speaker 05

  I would buy that. That's projection. I do not do that. As a producer, I like to give my host a buffet of choices from which he can, from which he can pick and choose. Maybe he's going to, maybe I'm offering mac and cheese, maybe, and when we, when we're saying, what should we do for a segment? And Sona says, oh, uh- This happened to me. Hopping is like this happened to me. I say, hey, I just bought a sword at the rent fair. What do you think about this? Sometimes you choose from my bucket. Sometimes you choose from others. And if you choose from my bucket, then, you know, it's all worked out. Choose from my bucket? What I do is I live for this podcast. Can I write off stuff too? I live my life in service of this podcast. Can I write off my edibles? He can't stop.

• 1:12:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, I want to write off all my edibles.

• 1:12:51Speaker 03

  You talked about going to Disneyland with your kids.

• 1:12:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, can I write that off?

• 1:12:53Speaker 03

  Can she write those tickets off?

• 1:12:54Speaker 05

  All right, I'm going to use my wife's favorite phrase, which is, there's a lot to unpack here. That's for you, Liza. Stop saying it. And we are going to continue this in another episode because this is vital, vital to the American interest.

• 1:13:12Speaker 07

  Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Leo. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.

• 1:13:32Speaker 07

  Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at siriusxm.com/conan. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

• 1:14:22Conan O'Brien?

  Technology can generate salary recommendations in seconds, but building an offer that lands skilled talent, that takes more than just an estimate you came up with.

• 1:14:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're right.

• 1:14:32Conan O'Brien?

  That's where Robert Half's new 2027 Salary Guide can help.

• 1:14:36Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 1:14:36Conan O'Brien?

  Did we use a salary guide with you, Sona?

• 1:14:38Speaker 01

  Uh, no, but maybe-

• 1:14:39Conan O'Brien?

  For several years, I just gave you groceries, remember?

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  I know, I remember that. That was not good.

• 1:14:44Conan O'Brien?

  Uh, well, anyway, now you got Robert Half's new 2027 Salary Guide. As a staffing firm placing talent every day, Robert Half combines compensation data with the experience of local recruiters so you can hire with the confidence that comes from experience. The new Robert Half Salary Guide is here. Visit roberthalf.com/salaryguide.

• 1:15:06Conan O'Brien?

  When you hear Alka-Seltzer, you probably think heartburn, right?

• 1:15:08Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:15:09Conan O'Brien?

  Well, did you know Alka-Seltzer has a line of cold and flu medications known as Alka-Seltzer Cold? Did you know that, David?

• 1:15:16Speaker 03

  No, but I feel like we need it.

• 1:15:17Conan O'Brien?

  Why didn't you know that, David?

• 1:15:19Speaker 03

  I know, you expect me to know everything.

• 1:15:20Conan O'Brien?

  I knew this because I-

• 1:15:22Speaker 03

  Did you?

• 1:15:22Conan O'Brien?

  Yeah, I've tried it, it's really good. And I like that fizzy, fizzy, fizzy when you drop the Alka-Seltzer Cold into the water. Alka-Seltzer Cold Fast Dissolves Tablets are designed to deliver cold and flu relief fast. Just drop the two tablets in water and hear those bubbles bursting into action, ready to work faster than pills. Bubbles faster than pills. Pills take time to dissolve, not bubbles. Next time a cold or flu strikes, quick! Alka-Seltzer Cold: Nothing works faster for cold and flu symptom relief. Among oral products used as directed.