Ep 627 - No-Nog (feat. Joe Alto)

Support the D. A. W. G. Z. @ patreon.com/MSsecretpod Support Joe and get OFF the Nog @ https://www.joinrelay.app/ Go See Matt Live @ mattmccusker.com/dates Go See Shane Live @ shanemgillis.com Go See Lemaire Lee Live @ https://lemairelee.fun/ Go See Shawn Gardini Live if you want @ https://www.shawngardini.com/live yo0o0. Little bonus to start the week for you guys. We got Joe Alto in the stu to talk about the dangers of Nog. If you're struggling with using/abusing yourself check out his app Relay. Link above. Please enjoy. God Bless. ps another ep is coming later this week Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Wild, wild west.

• 0:02Matt McCusker?

  Fired up.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  Fired up.

• 0:04Matt McCusker?

  Joe Alto, how you doing, brother?

• 0:05Speaker 00

  What's up, man?

• 0:06Matt McCusker?

  Welcome to the fucking cast, dude. Joe Alto, dude, we met online.

• 0:11Matt McCusker?

  So we met, and I'll just say it, we, we, you messaged me and we linked up based on not looking at porn.

• 0:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. By the way, I have a raw question.

• 0:20Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 0:21Speaker 00

  How crazy did you think I was when I sent you those emails?

• 0:25Matt McCusker?

  Not that crazy, to be fair. I didn't think you were that crazy. It's like, um, crazy messages, you just know them when you see them. You know what I mean? Like, people, when crazy internet people will hit you with, it's usually kind of scattered. I saw that and I was like, bullshit, it's kind of sick.

• 0:40Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 0:41Matt McCusker?

  So I wasn't, I didn't know. I get crazy vibes and usually there's like, because you don't see every message. But there'll usually be like nineteen messages before those ones, like some in all caps and you go, ah, fuck.

• 0:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 0:53Matt McCusker?

  Crazy guy.

• 0:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 0:54Matt McCusker?

  But, no, I just saw it and I was like, damn, that's kind of sick.

• 0:56Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 0:57Matt McCusker?

  So, and again, just to like, you know, I'm sure you've known from listening, but it's like, for me, I, I have mixed views on the whole, well, let's say like the, the approach, the online approach, or, you know, people taking to real life of like, you're either a porn consumer or you're a non porn consumer. Porn consumer is very simple. Non porn, porn consumer is kind of complex because it's like, there's like complete no fap over here, which I'm like, that's just impossible.

• 1:25Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:26Matt McCusker?

  You can try it if you want. I find it to be utterly impossible for myself. Um, and then there's like, no porn at all, then there's no masturbation. It is like hard mode, no fap, soft, you know, all that. I'm sure you're aware of all that stuff. So I, I always, for me, I always try to not take a super dogmatic approach, if that makes sense, where it's like, if you, if you fucking do it, you're done, you're a piece of shit. But, but recognizing that, I'm like, I really want to get this out of my life.

• 1:55Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:55Matt McCusker?

  And I, I have, thank God, for now. But the, uh, yeah, please, please. But I know I've done a couple, um, you know, like hotel weekend trips by myself are the absolute ultimate test. So I've passed a couple of those, but yeah. So what, tell me about, so you have, you have an app, right?

• 2:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:12Matt McCusker?

  You work for an app?

• 2:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, I work for an app. It's called Relay.

• 2:15Matt McCusker?

  What is it called again?

• 2:15Speaker 00

  Relay.

• 2:16Matt McCusker?

  Relay, gotcha.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  Relay Health. Yeah, and it's a porn addiction recovery app, right? So, yeah, the guy started it, probably, I think it's been five years now we've been up and running.

• 2:26Matt McCusker?

  How many people have used it?

• 2:28Speaker 00

  How many people have used it? I know right now we have a, there's about four thousand in the app right now.

• 2:34Matt McCusker?

  Nice.

• 2:34Speaker 00

  More than that have, have used it, you know, in the history of the app, but we have a pretty good user base and it's mostly guys.

• 2:40Matt McCusker?

  Yeah, and I'll say this too, because you do, whenever, every time around the, the, let's say masturbation porn discussion, whenever you're like anti or like, hey, maybe not the best move. You do get these guys, I'm sure you've dealt with them, who are like, oh, yeah, dude, porn fucking rules. You guys are being babies. And I just want to state for the record, totally fair, you can do that if you want. But that is the male equivalent to like when girls are like, my vibrator, it's kind of fucking, it's kind of fucking lame. Be like, yeah, my vibrator. It's like, okay, like enough of that.

• 3:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, absolutely. And it's.

• 3:13Matt McCusker?

  Come on, we don't want to hear. I want to bring back, my dad used to always be like, have you mentioned porn? He'd be like, what are you, a fucking weirdo?

• 3:19Speaker 00

  Same here.

• 3:20Matt McCusker?

  The fuck's wrong with you? Like, it was a genuine threat.

• 3:23Speaker 00

  No, to this day, my dad is a, I, I've asked him bluntly, I go, daddy, have you ever, what was like your history with porn? He's like, never done it. I'm a man.

• 3:34Speaker 00

  Swear, I swear to God, my dad's been like never jacked off.

• 3:38Matt McCusker?

  That's so sick.

• 3:39Speaker 00

  Never looked at porn.

• 3:40Matt McCusker?

  Well, to be.

• 3:41Speaker 00

  And it's fucking gross because he's like, I got your mom.

• 3:43Matt McCusker?

  Yeah. Okay, okay.

• 3:47Speaker 00

  Ew.

• 3:47Matt McCusker?

  That's the worst.

• 3:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, but that's like the raw, like that's the honest to God, what he's told me.

• 3:51Matt McCusker?

  Also though, back then, there was a barrier. If you wanted porn back then, I don't know how you, my dad's like in his seventies.

• 3:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, my dad's sixty-five.

• 4:00Matt McCusker?

  Because if you, if you want to porn, he, they had to like go to like adult bookstores and all, but also there was like a bunch of guys trying to blow you the whole time. If you wanted to get porn, like it was for real. If you wanted porn, like porn shops

• 4:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:14Matt McCusker?

  was associated with like underground sexual behavior.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  Hedonists.

• 4:18Matt McCusker?

  No, exactly. That's, that's kind of the deal. Like, if you were even around there, it's like, yo, what the fuck are you doing?

• 4:24Speaker 00

  Some guy's going to suck your dick.

• 4:25Matt McCusker?

  Yeah, like, yeah, especially back then, they didn't have sex ed. He'd be like, what, mister?

• 4:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it was always an adventure. It's an adventure.

• 4:36Matt McCusker?

  It was different. It was different. I'll never forget, my dad, um, this is like really bad, but I remember he went to buy, there's this guy who like fixed lawnmowers and the guy happened, he would sell porn, like VHSs and all this stuff. He was on my Craigslist. So my dad went there to get his lawnmower out. We'd always be like, yeah, right, dude, you're buying porn? He's like, I swear to fuck, get the fuck out of here, I'm buying fucking porn. But he was there and the guy was like, yo, hold on, I got this guy, he's buying a bunch of VHSs off me. He's trying to fucking watch them and he asked me if he can watch them in my basement. I'm like, man, get the fuck out of here. The dude comes out, it was a dad from one of the girls in our, like, grade school.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  No.

• 5:13Matt McCusker?

  Like twenty-three kids in our class. It was a small Catholic school and I remember he like was telling, I remember all the dads laughing, we're at like an eighth grade dance. They're all laughing and I was like, what are you guys laughing at? They're like, ah, forget about, forget. And then later he told me, he's like, yeah, we saw blah, blah, blah's dad. Trying to watch VHSs with the guy who fixed our lawnmower. And I was like, bam.

• 5:30Speaker 00

  It's gross.

• 5:31Matt McCusker?

  But I, and again, it's like, to your point, it's, um, with the app, it's, it's different for us. It's more, it's everywhere. It's, we're completely tapped into it. It's a, it's a different thing. We got, we were basically all like crack babies with porn, but you know, we got born into this, um, you know, we kind of hooked in. So how, in terms of the app, what is the, what's like the guiding philosophy?

• 5:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, guiding philosophy would be, you don't have a porn problem, you have a pain problem. A lot of guys have a difficult time even understanding what that is. Like, it's, it's just difficult. Maybe you have some conscious moment where you do realize that, yeah, I'm using this as a baby blanket, but, um, that's just also like a very difficult endeavor to deal with by yourself. So, yeah, it's like you have a pain problem. You've associated at some point in your history with porn, you, you start off and it's, it's great, it's innocent. You start looking at it around, whatever, eleven and, eleven or twelve years old and you use it for whatever purposes, right? Like I said, because it's.

• 6:31Matt McCusker?

  Naked chicks. It really does start as simple as like naked chicks.

• 6:35Speaker 00

  Naked chicks. You're not going to see a naked chick when you're twelve for quite a long time, more than likely.

• 6:39Matt McCusker?

  Shouldn't, shouldn't.

• 6:42Matt McCusker?

  He really shouldn't.

• 6:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, knock on wood.

• 6:44Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 6:44Speaker 00

  There's always that one guy though, in like the eighth grade where you're just like, holy shit, like you did that? And, but that's just that one guy. I was never that guy.

• 6:51Matt McCusker?

  No, no.

• 6:51Speaker 00

  You probably weren't either.

• 6:52Matt McCusker?

  No, that guy probably also had pubes when he was like fucking four, so, but yeah, he, uh.

• 6:57Speaker 00

  No, but so you, you started looking at it when you're young and then at some time, at some point in your maturation process as a young man, whatever type of disappointment that you go through, right? It could be in sports, it can be with the ladies, it can be with, you know, you get a bad grade, whatever, really like simple shit. Yeah, but you just go back, yeah, you get an F on your paper and you feel like shit and you know porn's going to make you feel good. So you do it. And then you just unlock this crazy

• 7:22Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  circuitry in your brain that it connects any type of, like you're literally training yourself. You're like a dog. Like you're training yourself to associate pain with porn and it gets unconscious. And then you have all these like thirty-five year old guys who have very stressful lives, right? Like we all do. And now it's so unconscious, have a bad day at work, maybe it's the muscle memory of driving home. You get into an argument with your wife, you notice a cavity, all this shit, you just go to porn.

• 7:53Matt McCusker?

  Porn time.

• 7:53Speaker 00

  Porn, porn, porn, porn.

• 7:54Matt McCusker?

  Yeah, and well, it's funny too, because it's like, you know, your parents, I remember like, dude, we, we got caught with porn a couple of times in our house and they'd be like, what the fuck? They were, they'd be so mad.

• 8:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:04Matt McCusker?

  I remember being a kid being like, dude, I wish they'd lax up about this shit. Like, what the fuck is their problem? As a kid, you're going like, no, guys, this shit fucking rules. Like, I don't think you guys understand, like, this is the best.

• 8:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:17Matt McCusker?

  We'd have, we had, I grew up, it was like, there was a, literally like sixteen kids on the properties, me and my cousin's families right next to each other. And like a VHS would come, someone would get one and it would fucking cycle through and everyone would be like, I remember people like, I remember knowing there was a VHS across the street at my cousin's house and just being like, I, I wouldn't see it for like five days, but I'd be like, yes, yeah.

• 8:37Speaker 00

  You're thinking about it the whole time.

• 8:39Matt McCusker?

  Amped.

• 8:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 8:40Matt McCusker?

  But like you were saying, it's like that, that young, during those young formative stages, you're, you're just like, you know, you don't realize how geeked, you know, you're, you're an adult and you're like, you're like, all right, I can calm myself now. It's like, you didn't always have that. So it's like, most adults probably don't even still today, but it's like, I, I barely do myself, but it's like as a kid, when something hits you, it fucking rocks you. You're getting so upset. If someone's like, you fucking loser, you're like, ah, like it fucks, it kills you and you have, you know, you have the porn, the porn, the porn. And then, you know, finally I remember college and it's like, I can download as much porn as I fucking want on my computer. This is this shit. And then, you know, it goes on and on and on. And yeah, it just really, I think you do, personally me,

• 9:24Matt McCusker?

  I've hit a point where I, I remember just thinking like, yeah, I just don't, it'd be nice to not

• 9:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:30Matt McCusker?

  deal with that.

• 9:31Speaker 00

  You get bored of it at some point. Like, yeah, you start, like honestly, and I think it, that's part of it. Like, I know at least for me it was. You, I don't know if it's boredom. That's not, that might not be the best word, but yeah, you're just like, what the fuck am I doing?

• 9:41Matt McCusker?

  Well, yeah, it's, yeah, that's a, that's a good distinction. It's not necessarily boredom, it's just kind of like, oh man, how much longer? It's just, you know, I'm giving this to this fucking thing, which again, then you like look at the porn industry as like an apparatus and it's like. It's really sad. Like, you know, you can say, I don't even want to think about that shit. But it is, it's like, you know, you have these, let's just say mostly women, although the guys' stories, I watch a lot of Soft White on Her Belly, so I watch a lot of these stories of people like in the, you know, porn industry and all this stuff. And it's almost always very sad origin story.

• 10:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:18Matt McCusker?

  Where it's like, a girl was sexually abused, or this, or that.

• 10:21Speaker 00

  Bad family life, yeah.

• 10:23Matt McCusker?

  Always pretty bad. And then the guy, their male counterparts is never exactly great either, for the most part. So it's like, you have these people, and it's, this might be a bad way to put about, this is how like my mind kind of like, you know, organizes it. It's like, you have these people who are like, you know, in some way have caught a very raw deal in society. Like, imagine a beggar. Who's like, beggars usually are beggars because it's just, all the shit got fucked up in their lives, and now they're beggars. And like, and if you walked by them and just fucking jerked off on them, it's like, that's kind of how I started feeling. It's like, they're not obviously beggars.

• 10:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:59Matt McCusker?

  But it's like, they've been dejected by very important parts of their life in a very intimate way.

• 11:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:05Matt McCusker?

  And they get fed into this machinery that very clearly rips them apart.

• 11:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:10Matt McCusker?

  Female porn stars do not age well.

• 11:12Speaker 00

  No.

• 11:13Matt McCusker?

  There's been like four, and the only reason they did is because they became movie stars, and they got to like, get out of porn life. But the people in there are being grinded to a pulp in like a way that's hard to comprehend. And then I always just felt doubly disgusting being like, and just jerking off. It was just like, I get to a point where you're like, dude, I just, again, it's not like, um, a powdered wig where I'm kind of being like, evil. It's just like, I get it. I totally get it. I just, man, I'd love to not have that on my conscience. Or just like you were saying, with like, masking pain problems for being like, I'm gonna go fucking jerk off now.

• 11:50Speaker 00

  Well, yeah, and I think, I don't know, I mean, there's obviously still activities that I still like to do, um, that I started when I was a kid, right? Like, I still like sports. I still, you know, some other shit. But there's also like a lot of things I did as a kid that I don't do anymore, because I realize, I don't know, just you get over it.

• 12:09Matt McCusker?

  Not a kid, yeah.

• 12:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, not a kid. Like, it's simple, yeah, exactly. It's simple as that. He's not a kid.

• 12:13Matt McCusker?

  Saying porn, you're in a way saying porn is for kids. It's a kid thing.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  It's a kid thing.

• 12:20Matt McCusker?

  Like Frosted Flakes.

• 12:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, just like.

• 12:25Matt McCusker?

  I know what you mean. It's baby shit.

• 12:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, yeah, and you, yeah, you get to.

• 12:30Matt McCusker?

  Porn is for babies.

• 12:33Matt McCusker?

  It kind of is. It is, it is a, it's a juvenile response.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  The Frosted Flick thing was fine. I didn't even make that joke, but, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 12:46Matt McCusker?

  But it's true. But I get what you're saying. And again, the problem is, the problem is with this, it's not, it can come off as a holier-than-thou thing, and it's like, bro, anything but.

• 12:57Speaker 00

  And that's, you hear that with a lot of the guys who are, you know, pretty, I don't know if it's like staunchly, but yeah, they'll make the religious argument. They're like, no, porn's fine. Like, the only reason why you don't think porn's fine is because

• 13:10Matt McCusker?

  Yes.

• 13:10Speaker 00

  you grew up Catholic, or you grew up.

• 13:11Matt McCusker?

  Yeah, it's all that guilt. You have excessive guilt and blah, blah, blah.

• 13:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, and we both grew up Catholic.

• 13:16Matt McCusker?

  Hmm.

• 13:17Speaker 00

  Um, and you got that, you definitely got that to some degree.

• 13:20Matt McCusker?

  For sure. I remember jerking off on Easter and being like, I'm going to hell. You want to talk about dedication to the game? We're all, if you're a porn user.

• 13:28Speaker 00

  The Lord, the Lord forgave you, forgave, you know, he died for your sins, and you just decided to.

• 13:33Matt McCusker?

  I didn't understand that part. I was just like, the guy died, but there's God. He's gonna punish my ass, and I'm going to fucking hell.

• 13:39Speaker 00

  You're fucking done.

• 13:40Matt McCusker?

  But here's, it is.

• 13:41Speaker 00

  You still might. You still might. When you get to the Pearly Gates, it'll be like, Matt, remember that one time when you jacked off on Easter when you were 13? That was it.

• 13:50Matt McCusker?

  So I would gladly say, take me, my bad, I'm going. This episode is brought to you by Viori. Guys, we've been wearing Viori lately. It's a game changer. The core shorts work for pretty much anything. Gym, errands, hanging around the house, whatever.

• 14:07Speaker 00

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• 14:13Matt McCusker?

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• 14:29Matt McCusker?

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• 14:34Speaker 00

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• 14:34Matt McCusker?

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• 15:19Matt McCusker?

  including omega-3 fish oil and vitamin D3 plus K2 with your first subscription to AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/secretpod. Down, here's the thing, here's the thing with that though, when people go, oh, that's just excess Catholic guilt, la, la, la, la. It's like, okay, I hear you, because, you know, but, but, but then it's like, I feel like a lot of people who would be against that tend to, not always, but tend to be of a more like politically liberal kind of, you know, leaning.

• 15:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's.

• 15:52Matt McCusker?

  And who's more guilt? They're the guiltiest of all. So it's like, dude, don't come at me for my guilt. We'll talk guilt.

• 15:57Speaker 00

  That's a good point.

• 15:58Matt McCusker?

  And it's like, maybe you should feel guilt. As I get older, it's like, it's not a bad thing.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  Dude, there's, I, I, yeah, I think we probably should feel more guilty about shit.

• 16:07Matt McCusker?

  Here's the thing too.

• 16:08Speaker 00

  When you have kids and you have a wife.

• 16:09Matt McCusker?

  Exactly.

• 16:10Speaker 00

  There, you actually should feel guilty about things.

• 16:11Matt McCusker?

  If you're in the bathroom at night jerking off.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:14Matt McCusker?

  That's an understandable response to go, I think I'm fucking missing the mark here.

• 16:18Speaker 00

  You're throwing one in the toilet four hours ago, you were literally just telling your kid to take a shit on that toilet. It's weird.

• 16:25Matt McCusker?

  It is weird.

• 16:26Speaker 00

  It's a weird thing.

• 16:26Matt McCusker?

  And if they, if they walk in, God forbid, kids can have dreams, kids can wake up.

• 16:31Speaker 00

  You're fucked.

• 16:31Matt McCusker?

  You've, you've literally altered their life trajectory, and I would say, a negative way. Unless you convince them it was all just a dream, go to bed.

• 16:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:39Matt McCusker?

  Don't ever bring this up ever again.

• 16:40Speaker 00

  Don't tell your mom.

• 16:42Matt McCusker?

  I'll fuck her. So, yeah.

• 16:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, no, no. That's always the thing that strikes me weird, is like, guys are usually, usually jacking off in their house, right? Married men.

• 16:53Matt McCusker?

  Yep.

• 16:53Speaker 00

  And you, it is weird. Like, you associate all these memories with your house, or you do things with your kids in your house, right? Like I said, like you give them a bath, and then in that same bathroom, you're fucking, you know?

• 17:05Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 17:06Speaker 00

  It's weird. And you should feel guilty about that.

• 17:08Matt McCusker?

  Yeah, that's fair.

• 17:09Speaker 00

  I think you should.

• 17:10Matt McCusker?

  That's not ideal, yeah, it's not ideal.

• 17:11Speaker 00

  You know, I don't think you, and here's the deal, that's different than being like, you're a complete piece of shit. Like, you're not a complete piece of shit. You're a little piece of shit, right?

• 17:19Matt McCusker?

  A little bit.

• 17:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, a little bit, but, no, no, no. And that's, that's, that's the thing that a lot of, you know, guys like me and you who grew up in that space, in the Catholic space, um, yeah, you just think that you're a piece of shit. But that's not even, I'm not gonna get into like the whole like theology of it, but that's not even necessarily what the church says, right? It's like, you're not, you're not necessarily going to hell. You're not like.

• 17:43Matt McCusker?

  Yeah, and that's, that's the thing, yeah, we talked about, is like, a lot of the resistance is like a good-bad binary, where it's like, if you do this thing, you're bad. If you do this, you're good.

• 17:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's such a shitty way of approaching it.

• 17:55Matt McCusker?

  It's more like, here's what I'm up to right now. I could be a little bit better.

• 18:00Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 18:00Matt McCusker?

  What's some of the stuff I have to shed? And dude, I will say, it's like, uh, you know, again, with just like the, in a marriage, if you're, if you're a guy who's by himself, you're young, you're like, you're trying to figure things out, it's like, it's, yeah, it's not, obviously it's not the end of the world if you rub one out so you can fall asleep.

• 18:19Speaker 00

  That's, I agree. I really, I honestly, God, and it's hard, working in this space, you get a lot of, like, you were kind of listing out a little bit ago, like, you have like your purists, like, never do this.

• 18:30Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 18:31Speaker 00

  And like, there is, I mean, because there obviously is a difference between being married and being single.

• 18:35Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 18:36Speaker 00

  There is. Um, I think why it's good to try to shore this up now when you're a single guy is because you're gonna, so many guys think that when they get married, well, I would say like, I mean, especially the religious people I know, a lot of them think when they get married, this is just gonna be like the magic pill that makes them stop. And it's like, no, you're just gonna do it fucking more, right? Because being married, you're more stressed when you're married. You're more stressed when you have kids. So if anything, you're making your life more of a pain in the ass.

• 19:06Matt McCusker?

  Yep. Put the down payment on the house.

• 19:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's exactly right.

• 19:10Matt McCusker?

  You're not trying to have sex? This is bullshit. It's not supposed to be this way.

• 19:13Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 19:14Matt McCusker?

  To the toilet.

• 19:15Speaker 00

  Yep, that's exactly right. 2 AM. We're doing it.

• 19:19Matt McCusker?

  Has she sleeping? Monitor her breathing.

• 19:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's, that's exactly right. Yeah, man, so like, yeah, you just introduce more, yeah, you just introduce more stress in your life. So I think it is good for the guys who are single to try to get this shit online now. Because it's really, dude, it's the fucking worst to bring that into a marriage. I did, and it fucking sucked.

• 19:39Matt McCusker?

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 00

  It was terrible.

• 19:40Matt McCusker?

  No, and it's, and this is the thing, again, my, my point is more so, it's like, yeah, it's not like, okay, there's this, you know, body, like, looking over you, being like, bad, good, bad, good. Because I get the urge to be like, fuck you, man. I don't, I can just not subscribe to this shit at all. And it's like, for sure, you can do that. My argument is, long-term, you can, like, I did it when I was younger, being like, this stuff's bullshit. I don't give a fuck. And then you get older, and you're like, ah, so there was something to that, I think. I think it was actually decent.

• 20:07Speaker 00

  Well, it's just like a, it's almost like a spirit that controls you.

• 20:10Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 20:10Speaker 00

  Right? It's like, it's just, this is controlling me. It's taking up so much of like my mental bandwidth. I'm constantly thinking about it when I'm at work, right? I'm thinking about, oh, man, I can't wait till I get home. Or it's just this like vibration throughout your day, and it really does grip you. And I think, you know, especially like in all these like. I don't know, kind of like lame, like modern male movements are like, I want to be independent, right? Like, I don't want shit to, I want to be like, I want to be above all that, right? Like, and yeah, those same guys that were probably also not even realizing how much porn controls their life.

• 20:51Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 20:52Speaker 00

  Or the pornographic in general, right? Is controlling their lives. So just, like I said, always constantly thinking about it or, you know, even just like, you know, anytime you see a good looking chick walk by, you're just fucking hounding.

• 21:07Matt McCusker?

  You're good, you're good. That's my brother had posted best. He's like, even if you're not looking at porn, you can still be gooned.

• 21:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 21:12Matt McCusker?

  Where you're on Instagram, you're scrolling, you're scrolling. My, my brother claims if you're scrolling, you're gooning.

• 21:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:17Matt McCusker?

  If you're sitting there and you're in the scroll, you're gooned, you're gooned out.

• 21:20Speaker 00

  A non-orgasmic goon.

• 21:22Matt McCusker?

  You're just gooned. Yeah. You're completely just like, ah, so.

• 21:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're, yeah, you're mindless. Yeah.

• 21:27Matt McCusker?

  And, and it's like the babes are coming. You're, you know what you're doing. You're in your hamster cage and you're fucking hitting your little switch and you're going, oh, the fucking babes. Well, who am I, you know?

• 21:36Speaker 00

  That's exactly right.

• 21:36Matt McCusker?

  So it's like, you're kind of pulling that lever.

• 21:38Speaker 00

  And there's a lot of things, dude, like I see these stupid fucking YouTube videos where,

• 21:45Speaker 00

  like in, in, in this like male kind of, I don't know, space,

• 21:51Speaker 00

  where it's like porn or like lust is like the fuck, like if you can get over lust, you are mad. It's like, no, that's the fucking actually easiest thing I think to get over as a guy. Like for me, you know, once I got over porn, I started, and I'm still like trying to figure out all like the deeper shit that makes me a piece of shit. Like my, I'm fucking angry all the time. I am angry all the time. I'm yelling all the time. I have a lot of like anger and wrath. That's much, that is, for me, that's been way more difficult to try to figure out than lust, right? So for a lot of the times, these guys will spend our whole fucking lives just trying to figure out this like porn issue or this lust issue, this whatever, right?

• 22:35Speaker 00

  And it's, and we, we, we spend our whole lives trying to get over that and we haven't even got, we're not, we're not, we don't have the bandwidth to,

• 22:44Speaker 00

  deal with more like guttural, uh, problems. Like, like for guys, like a lot, like the anger, the dickishness, right? You know, whatever.

• 22:53Matt McCusker?

  You, you don't really, you don't really think about this stuff. At least I didn't at all till I had kids. Cause then like, when you're in an apartment by yourself, if you have, you have a girlfriend, like I'm fucking angry. Who gives a shit? I fucking yelled, whatever. It's not the end of the world. Once you have kids, you're like, damn, I'm making this, this place, this living environment hell. And it's me, like I'm doing this.

• 23:10Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 23:11Matt McCusker?

  And that's why, again, for me personally, I would say the porn thing, the piece of that was like, you know, I'm at odds with my wife. I want sex. I'm like, fuck. And then I, you know, you slink off to the porn, slink off the porn. You never fix the issue. Whereas if you're like, all right, we gotta get on the same page that we're, you know, we gotta, we gotta be operating. And part of a marriage is we're obviously having sex with each other or communicating. Porn's such a little like, it's like a little underground shelter. You can kind of hide out. And then you obviously fucking just become a freak under, you know, an underground bunker freak. But that was the, uh, at least for me personally. And it's like, you, you start ha, and then it's like, you, you ditch the porn safety blanket and you're like, all right, I have to hash this out. And for me, it's like that then starts, at least starts to spread out into other areas of my life where I would be like, mm, I don't feel like dealing with this, blah, blah, blah.

• 23:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:57Matt McCusker?

  So, yeah, I don't know. I, I, I think it's good. And I really, again, having kids is like the big thing for me where it's like, I'm, every day I'm like, all right, let's make my house, what can I do to make my house chill, fun, and just like a, like a place that feels good to be in? And that entails when I'm feeling like, uh, about whatever, I have to catch myself and calm myself down and realize like, this isn't as big as the thing I'm trying to do, which is like, create a happy, healthy house.

• 24:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's exactly right.

• 24:26Matt McCusker?

  But it's hard. It's very, very difficult to be like, and, and this is something I had to tell myself a lot of times where I'm like, you know, I, I'm, you're responsible for how you feel inside. It's no one else's, it's literally your responsibility. And it's like, what do you have to do to make that stuff feel good inside your body? Like, how do you feel at ease? And it's like, you have to figure that out.

• 24:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, you do. And there's like, well, that's a good nuanced take. And that's the difficult thing that a lot of dudes just like, it takes them forever to figure out. Like unless like you're super conscious about this is going to be, yeah, like a long journey, right?

• 25:02Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 25:02Speaker 00

  Yeah. Like you're not ever going to come to that realization. I'm even thinking about just like how on edge a lot of guys are when they're looking at porn, like, you got your phone, you got your laptop, you're always on the high alert because you're just like, oh, did I exit out of this? My wife probably can't pick up my phone. Did I delete the Instagram history?

• 25:21Matt McCusker?

  Did the audio go to a Bluetooth device?

• 25:23Speaker 00

  A hundred percent, dude. No. That would be the worst. Uh, no, but you're always on high alert and just think about like what that, uh, that, that, like a hyper, you're, you're, so you're at, you're hyper alert and think about what that does just as you in your household. How do you conduct yourself?

• 25:40Matt McCusker?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:40Speaker 00

  If you're always on high alert, dude, you're just gonna be more anxious. Yeah. You're gonna, you're gonna obviously possibly like lash out with the kids more or with the wife. And the wife's gonna think that, you know, something's up with him. She's gonna confront you. And then you're just like, no, I'm not. And then you start to lie.

• 25:56Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 25:57Speaker 00

  Right? So it, it just creates this bad, yeah, it's just like a bad household culture, you know? And so I think, yeah, I mean, obviously, if you're, if you're a married man with kids, yeah, you, you gotta get this shit on lock. You do need to get this shit on lock, even if you're single, because you're gonna, you're gonna bring it into the marriage and you're gonna bring it into your household at some point.

• 26:17Matt McCusker?

  It is also kind of a flex as a young man to be in a relationship, being like, I don't even look at that crap. It's kind of nice.

• 26:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:23Matt McCusker?

  Cause it's like, ah, yeah, there's, I, I feel like girls have been, I don't know. I'm trying to think of the word, not like conditioned, but like, I, I feel like it's, become a bit strange for, let's say, most girls and like, just like, you know, modern, normal society, to be like, if he wants to watch porn, that's fine. Like almost like it's a, it's healthy.

• 26:46Speaker 00

  It's good.

• 26:46Matt McCusker?

  But I don't think girls like it at all. They don't, I've never met a single girl who's really actually into it.

• 26:51Speaker 00

  Your girlfriend might say that, but the moment she becomes your wife, she's like, fuck this, dude.

• 26:54Matt McCusker?

  Not watching that shit.

• 26:55Speaker 00

  Yeah. Why are you asking me to do this crazy shit when we're having sex?

• 26:58Matt McCusker?

  That's true. Yeah. No, I, I agree.

• 27:00Speaker 00

  No, they don't like it. At some point, I also would argue that. Also, I don't give a fuck. I, I don't think any guy probably wants a wife who is legitimate. Like you might say you do, but at some point down the road, I, I don't think a guy likes the idea that his wife is cool with him looking at porn.

• 27:16Matt McCusker?

  Actually genuinely catch your wife gooning would be devastating.

• 27:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, absolutely.

• 27:22Matt McCusker?

  I would be like, what the fuck are you doing? I'd be so mad.

• 27:25Speaker 00

  Absolutely, dude.

• 27:26Matt McCusker?

  Like phone in hand.

• 27:27Speaker 00

  Phone in hand.

• 27:29Matt McCusker?

  Bro.

• 27:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:31Matt McCusker?

  You're fucking good.

• 27:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's gross.

• 27:32Matt McCusker?

  I, I would hate that.

• 27:33Speaker 00

  That's gross. Well, the, the female porn thing is, is interesting. I don't know. I mean, I obviously know more about the guy phenomenon jacking off. But no, dude, the chicks are loving like the erotica now.

• 27:45Matt McCusker?

  Yeah. That's, that's just like mainstream. Yeah. The novels and all that stuff.

• 27:50Speaker 00

  The novels, the vampires or whatever they fucking are into. There's, there's a new bookshop on my street that just opened up.

• 27:58Matt McCusker?

  Girl porn?

• 27:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, erotica.

• 28:00Matt McCusker?

  Oh no.

• 28:00Speaker 00

  Like what the fuck?

• 28:01Matt McCusker?

  Yeah, no, that's, that's, uh,

• 28:03Speaker 00

  It's gross.

• 28:04Matt McCusker?

  They're not really open to talking about it. Whenever I, I always ask, I always ask my wife, if she reads, she likes like fantasy stuff, but I feel like now it's like, the erotic is in, and, and it's, they're not like, it's not like the like, and then he fucking fucked me in the ass. It's like, it's all about the moment two people meet. That's the thing. They want like the, the moment they go fuck it and they just kiss. That's like their erotica.

• 28:25Speaker 00

  They get whisked away.

• 28:26Matt McCusker?

  Yeah, they get whisked away. And I, I've learned, I, I listened to this female professor lady who was talking about it. She's like, dude, I, I'm a professor. And I, you know, I just started reading these books and I, she's like, I got so fucking, like I would put them literally like almost like a, like a cartoon, like in another book and like hide. She's like, I would read, I would read them. And I, she goes, I would reread that point over and over and over and over where they finally come together.

• 28:47Speaker 00

  Gets them going.

• 28:48Matt McCusker?

  Gets them fired up.

• 28:49Speaker 00

  It does, dude.

• 28:50Matt McCusker?

  So, and, and, and again, for me, it's like, you know, cause you hear, even going to marriage, people go like, dude, it's crazy. The idea of having sex with one person or your whole, it's, it's just like a stupid idea. It doesn't make sense. I, what I found is like, it's actually really easy, especially if you're not watching porn. Cause then you just sit there and you're, especially if you're not jerking off, you just, eventually your body's going to go, yeah, it's time for sex. And you're not going to go, poof, like, well, you're gonna go, fuck my wife. I'm, I'm horny.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. No, it's great. So I've been fucking my wife for a long time.

• 29:20Matt McCusker?

  It doesn't get old.

• 29:21Speaker 00

  No, honestly, God, I actually, I always.

• 29:24Matt McCusker?

  It's isn't cope. It's not like, oh, I, I would tell you, I'd be like, yeah, it's kind of boring. I would say, guys, I'm sorry if I say to my wife, sorry, fucking boring. I'm not bored. I go like, fuck it. Yes.

• 29:35Speaker 00

  No, that's true. I, and I think it actually gets phenomenally better when you stop looking at porn. Like I,

• 29:40Matt McCusker?

  A hundred percent. Like I completely agree.

• 29:41Speaker 00

  I started dating my wife when I was 18.

• 29:43Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 29:44Speaker 00

  So I've been, you know, I don't know. I, I've been obviously having sex with my wife for a long time. I'm 34. And it has, yeah, just hasn't gotten old.

• 29:53Matt McCusker?

  No, it's, it's, it's, uh, but for me, I remember dating and being a porn hound. And I remember I would like, I would type like, whatever, like this is cool and all. I just don't think they're, you know? I guess doing like, you know, obviously luckily you marry someone you have like a, a sexual spark with, you know, sometimes that just isn't there.

• 30:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:11Matt McCusker?

  But yeah, I, uh, I don't know. I, I do think it's a, I think it's the move, you know, all things considered. It's like, you're gonna come at it. Everyone comes at it from their own angle, but I've, I've gone both sides of the thing. I used to literally watch porn when I ate breakfast when I was in college.

• 30:25Speaker 00

  That's insane.

• 30:27Matt McCusker?

  I would just, I would just basically load it up. I'd be like, all right, what am I going to watch? And I would just start, I would eat. I remember just being like, this is so sick. I can watch porn. And it's like, it's literally you're, you're on like Donkey Island with Pinocchio.

• 30:38Speaker 00

  I had a college roommate, um, who,

• 30:42Matt McCusker?

  Pop tarts and porn.

• 30:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, little, yeah, yeah. Make it a day. I had a college roommate who would, um, who would every night get his laptop out. He was a fucking fiend. Holy shit. This is actually, it's coming back to me. So he was a fiend. He would open up his laptop, peruse what he wanted to look at in the morning, close his laptop, woke up, have it. But he was fucking, dude, he was sick. He had, he had like a fleshlight that he would, yeah. So he was in it.

• 31:12Matt McCusker?

  He was in it, dude.

• 31:13Speaker 00

  He was fucking in it, dude. I've, I've. But this is actually not, you know, it's funny because dude, we all have, that's the thing. We all have these stories and it just becomes so normalized that we just think, and it is fun, like it is kind, it's funny objectively, dude. It's funny. It's funny. And yeah, but that's also the other thing. It's like, there has to be a nuance in it with it because it is funny, but it's also, like grow up. Like, you know what I mean? Going back to like, going back to the kids, right? Like it's like, grow up, dude. Like you can't be just fucking doing this all your life.

• 31:44Matt McCusker?

  It is sad because you are essentially having sex with yourself. And it's like jerking off, whatever. I get it. Like, you know, you're, look, I always think of soldiers on the battlefield, cranking out, obviously, it's gonna happen. But the, once you get into like the gear, the fleshlight, the Oculus, it's like now you're having sex with yourself.

• 31:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, you are having. Well, dude, and then I feel, I feel really bad for the guys who,

• 32:06Speaker 00

  and I, I, I'm not gonna like talk about like the science behind it because I just don't really know, but both, so like it's, this is more so anecdotal, but I've heard a lot of stories, even from like users in the app, like they just make such a relationship with their hand, that this is how you do get erectile dysfunction. It's like the only thing that you can, that's gonna get you off is your hand. And so then you're with a chick. This is super tragic. It's really sad for,

• 32:29Matt McCusker?

  That does suck.

• 32:30Speaker 00

  You know, the twenty something year old guys, the thirty something year old guys, you know, they, they do finally get a babe and, they can't get it up. And then, I mean, that's a fucking cycle, right? You can't get it up. You feel like shit. And you just go back on the porn.

• 32:45Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 32:45Speaker 00

  It's fucking crazy.

• 32:46Matt McCusker?

  That's, that's the one thing that I, uh, and I think that's luckily being lucky enough to be born before internet porn. That does suck for guys who are just like, came online. It was just like, boom, here you go.

• 32:58Speaker 00

  How old are you?

• 32:59Matt McCusker?

  Forty.

• 32:59Speaker 00

  Okay. Yeah, I'm thirty four. So there's that, but that, that six years actually is, yeah, no, that's actually like a huge distinction. Because my parents got a computer and they had no idea what the fuck was going on.

• 33:11Matt McCusker?

  My parents had no idea.

• 33:12Speaker 00

  I don't even know, I didn't even know that. They probably didn't know that there was history, right? So you could just.

• 33:18Matt McCusker?

  They didn't. I guarantee you they didn't. They had no idea. We, I remember floppy, I was like in the floppy disk era. That was like a very initially. I remember my brother bringing him a floppy disk, popping it in, naked chick comes up and we're like, fucking awesome. But yeah, that's my whole thing. I, I always try not to,

• 33:36Matt McCusker?

  just like talk down to people or be like preachy about it. It's just like, dude, I'm telling you, like I've run the experiment. It's like, for me personally, you could be like in some weird, you know, you could just be like, no, me and my wife are poly and we watch porn. It's like, okay.

• 33:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, whatever.

• 33:50Matt McCusker?

  Good luck with that. But it's like, good luck. But it's like for me, I would say if you're standard meat and potatoes, whatever. If you're like, I'm a dude trying to have a wife and kids, it's like, just, it's like, it's one of those things where it's like, it's gotta be kind of kicked out eventually. Otherwise you have a porn dad. I remember porn dads, I don't know if you ever came across a porn dad, but like guys who just had Playboys.

• 34:10Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I.

• 34:11Matt McCusker?

  It's fucking weird. Looking back on it, I was just like, dude, there was Playboys all over that dude's house. And I'm like.

• 34:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, it's weird.

• 34:18Matt McCusker?

  Uh, it still gives me the heat. I remember being like, dude, your dad's so fucking cool. He has Playboys. I wish my fucking dad had Playboys.

• 34:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:24Matt McCusker?

  Now I'm like, I'm so happy my dad didn't have Playboys.

• 34:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, my dad was not a porn dad.

• 34:28Matt McCusker?

  No.

• 34:28Speaker 00

  He was not a porn dad. But no, I, I know. Cause you, and that's also the thing. It's like, yeah, you grow up with it thinking it's like a cool, like novelty. See, I wanna be like my dad. Just gonna fucking start jacking off. I don't know. It, it's, yeah, it's weird. It is, it's, it's very fucking weird.

• 34:44Matt McCusker?

  Also, I remember going around to like mechanics shops when I was younger with my dad.

• 34:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:49Matt McCusker?

  Plastered in porn. Every mechanic shop's bathroom. And then I, it was literally just the other day, I was like, were dudes jerking off in there?

• 34:54Speaker 00

  They might have.

• 34:55Matt McCusker?

  I'm pretty sure they were.

• 34:56Speaker 00

  They might have.

• 34:57Matt McCusker?

  I guarantee it. Cause it's like, otherwise what the fuck?

• 34:59Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, you're just around and guys are only so fucking strong, you know? And so if you're just around like.

• 35:04Matt McCusker?

  Somebody, somebody, dude. I remember it'd be a collage of just naked ladies in there. And I'd be like, I remember being little and being like, whoa, my dad would be like, close your eyes, go to the bathroom, come out of there. And I remember just like.

• 35:14Speaker 00

  We were, me and my, uh, my oldest is four and there's like up the street. He's not a mechanic anymore, but he, he has an old garage and like we would walk past it and we said hello one time and he was like, oh, come over into the den. We came over into the den and it was just like, like the classic, like nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties, like tits. And I'm like, fuck dude, close your, I, I pulled my boy away. I was like, don't fucking look at this. I was so scared. I was like, dude, fuck, I just fucked up my kid's life forever. So.

• 35:48Matt McCusker?

  Nah, that's young enough. He probably forgot.

• 35:50Speaker 00

  I hope, dude.

• 35:51Matt McCusker?

  Nah.

• 35:52Speaker 00

  I hope.

• 35:52Matt McCusker?

  I remember, I saw a naked lady the first time, cut out of a magazine on, literally it's a classic on the woods, just in the woods. Like ground of the woods crumpled up and it was just a naked lady. I was, I was probably for real like six years old.

• 36:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:05Matt McCusker?

  I remember just being like, what's that? And someone was like, it's a naked lady. And I remember being in the woods, it was outside of the Karakong Swim Club, just being like, what the fuck? And just, I remember just like, as a kid, just being like, okay, and just like walking about my way.

• 36:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, hopefully that was him. Or hopefully that's my, my boy. I'm hoping that he's not fucked up.

• 36:22Matt McCusker?

  I think he's fine. It's when you get ten, someone's like, yo, my brother, same thing. They were just like, check this out. Naked lady. On a, on a thing. And I was just like.

• 36:30Speaker 00

  Older brother?

• 36:31Matt McCusker?

  Older brother, yeah.

• 36:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, older brother.

• 36:33Matt McCusker?

  There's, there's same exact story. They have their buddies, they have the VHS and they're like, check this. As I used to have to guard, I would stand, they'd make me stand like this down by the fucking door. From when my parents came back and I have to run up and be like, they're here, they're here. So in order for you to do that, they had to let me, they let me watch a little bit of it. And I was like, this is so fucking.

• 36:50Speaker 00

  That is the, so that's another issue though, too, because it is such a part. And again, you say these things and it's not, like it's not bad. Like I, you kind of feel like this sounds fucking weird, but it is like a fond memory. Like that's funny, right? That memory is funny.

• 37:05Matt McCusker?

  It is funny.

• 37:06Speaker 00

  Or when your friends all get together, which by the way, women never think this is real, but it's like, yeah, like a guy, in, in your class had a DVD or VHS or whatever. And then you all go to fucking his house and you're all like just jerking off and the.

• 37:20Matt McCusker?

  Well, cause you're also so young. You're like, oh, you do that too? Yes. It's like, they're like your drinking buddies.

• 37:24Speaker 00

  Yeah. And they're like, what is that? That's gay. And it's like, no, it wasn't gay. Like we weren't jacking each other off. We were just, we were just jacking off with our thighs touching. Like that's not gay. That's not gay.

• 37:35Matt McCusker?

  Also, also, it was really like, you need, you were like, like how like heroin addicts all go to like a shooting gallery.

• 37:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:42Matt McCusker?

  You were just like, yo, we got it. Let's go. You would essentially have heroin and you're like, let's do heroin together.

• 37:48Speaker 00

  So there's, and I, I look back at that and I like laugh. And I do think like to some degree it's, well, and this is, this is the difficult part. This is my whole deal. It's like, that's funny. I'm not here to like fucking moralize you, right?

• 38:01Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 38:02Speaker 00

  But I don't know a lot of guys who are able to have a relationship with porn and not get addicted or just have like a pretty, you know, dependent relationship with it, you know?

• 38:14Matt McCusker?

  For sure.

• 38:15Speaker 00

  It's like, if you could smoke a cigarette, I just smoked cigarettes with you a couple of days ago. And it's like, okay, I'm not gonna smoke a cigarette again.

• 38:22Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 38:22Speaker 00

  Right? But I have that relationship with cigarettes. I can do that. But, um, yeah, with porn, if like, I'm gonna look, if I'm looking at porn once, even to this day, I'm probably on the fucking, I'm, I'm off my rocker.

• 38:35Matt McCusker?

  I'm good, yeah.

• 38:35Speaker 00

  I'm gonna look at it every single day.

• 38:38Matt McCusker?

  Dude, and then, then there's the issue of like what, um, a porn, it's, you know, and again, I, me and my brother talk about this a lot, but like, in, being in a porn hole is another thing too, where it's like, you're, you're, you're using porn, whatever. Some guys go so deep into it where it's like, now we're calling hooker ads. Now we're doing this. And then you come out of the whole thing where you're just like, the fuck did I do? I, I, I used to read like, uh, I would read about this all the time. And you get, you go on like Reddit and you're like porn addiction, this and that. And there's a guy who's like, yeah, I was watching porn one day. I kinda spazzed, called hookers. I ended up having like unprotected sex with the, and you're just like, Jesus.

• 39:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's like the worst type of stories.

• 39:13Matt McCusker?

  Yeah. And then, but, but there is a porn hole. You can be like, when you're in porn brain and you're gooner brain, it's like, you might think you're thinking normally, but you're kind of not. You're gooned. You're at a place and you're being like, uh, you're like, if you see like a chick, you're just instantly being like, and it's just like, there's a point of it where you're like, dude, like.

• 39:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, like I said, it goes back to like that, like spirit energy. Like it like just grips you. You can't, it's like a fucking succubus. You know what I mean? Like, it's like the succubus actually like exists. And it's just like ruling your life and you have that attached to your back. Yeah, man. It makes you, yeah. You could do wild shit like porn. Just got done looking at it for three hours. You feel bad about yourself. It, it could even be like, yeah, I'm gonna fucking buy this new pair of Nikes that I can't afford. You know what I mean? Like you just do stupid shit. Yeah. And there's, and even like, uh, like on like a societal perspective, it's, I don't know what the, I'm not gonna say it cause I don't wanna like a fucking idiot, but there's like a percentage of divorces happening because of,

• 40:16Speaker 00

  porn or infidelity, infidelity, right? In general, right? So like, that's a, that's a percentage of like whatever the fifty two percent divorce rate is. And it's like, that's just gonna cost you a lot of fucking money, dude. So like you were looking at porn. Now you gotta pay alimony. Like now you gotta pay child support.

• 40:31Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 40:31Speaker 00

  It's like, fuck that dude. Like that's.

• 40:34Matt McCusker?

  Well, and, and it's like, you're getting, and then that, that is.

• 40:36Speaker 00

  Then you fuck up your kid's life. Like, I don't care. Like if you, like, and that's, you know, whatever. But like, you know, you get a divorce. I don't care like if it's even like a positive reason like why you got divorced like there are some relationships out there right that shouldn't necessarily exist you get a divorce you're still throwing a fucking nuclear bomb into your family like the kid's gonna be fucked like the kids going to have some type of and it's like a spectrum

• 41:00Matt McCusker?

  They're not gonna be fond of it, yeah.

• 41:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:01Matt McCusker?

  I was unless you're a sick ticket like me I remember my parents stayed together I wish they got divorced when I was younger I still wish they got divorced so bad just because it was like I would always hear about people having two Christmases

• 41:12Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, you're excited.

• 41:13Matt McCusker?

  I was a fucking little sick ticket I remember like dude that sounds so sick but then it's like obviously I was on the outside looking in I'd probably be very sad.

• 41:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know it sucks.

• 41:21Matt McCusker?

  We had I was one of six so my parents would laugh and be like dude we literally can't get divorced. Like we can't we could but it'd be so.

• 41:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:29Matt McCusker?

  He's like I remember my dad is always laughing at me and like it's just it's it's just not I don't even know how to even go about that.

• 41:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:36Matt McCusker?

  But and it's well it's one of those things where I get it where you go well if I look at porn when I get divorced it's like no not necessarily but you're probably more likely I really would imagine.

• 41:43Speaker 00

  You're likely to do more stupid shit or you're likely to be more of a dick to you like all your bad qualities are gonna come out because of porn like even like going back to the whole like surveillance thing or your hypervigilant or whatever all of your worst qualities are gonna be highlighted because you're looking at a lot of porn.

• 41:58Matt McCusker?

  That's a cool way to put it it's like it's the kind of a node in this like network of thinking and being that's probably not the best.

• 42:06Speaker 00

  Yep, yep, exactly and so yeah you're I don't know there's just a lot of ill effects and what's cool is that I do think more than ever now people are at least like more privy to this even like five years ago you couldn't really talk about you know people like you weren't necessarily talking about porn addiction you know or porn.

• 42:26Matt McCusker?

  Be surprised.

• 42:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:28Matt McCusker?

  I've been I've been droning on about it for like 10 years.

• 42:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:31Matt McCusker?

  But but I know what you mean it was very I remember the no fat thing coming out and being like whoa.

• 42:38Matt McCusker?

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• 42:40Speaker 00

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• 42:41Matt McCusker?

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• 43:33Matt McCusker?

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• 44:00Matt McCusker?

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• 44:31Speaker 00

  Oh yeah.

• 44:31Matt McCusker?

  Right guys please, please, please I beg of you I'll be doing stand up uh August 7th and August 8th San Jose California come on guys ticket sales ooh boy now everywhere else is looking decent but San Jose California I get it it's not great it's summertime um but if you want to come come August 13th and 14th Spokane Washington then I'll be in Portland Maine Boston Massachusetts Royal Oak Michigan Milwaukee Wisconsin Charlotte Jacksonville Atlanta Chattanooga Chattanooga Fort Lauderdale Tampa Orlando and a bunch of other places guys go to mattmccusker.com to get tickets I'll be touring all through December. The so in terms of the app there's the there's like the recognizing that it's like.

• 45:15Speaker 00

  Yeah they first have to recognize the pain shit and the fact that.

• 45:18Matt McCusker?

  Like horniness horniness is a real thing there is just horniness but then there's a pain component and like it kind of untangle.

• 45:23Speaker 00

  Yep you gotta untangle that you gotta realize like I said going back that you fucking it's like you it's like almost like if you only worked out your right bicep your whole life it's gonna be fucking huge and the rest of your body's gonna.

• 45:34Matt McCusker?

  It's actually a pretty appropriate fucking.

• 45:36Speaker 00

  Look like shit yeah your forearm is just fucking.

• 45:40Matt McCusker?

  So and what are the other two kind of points of it so there's that and there's.

• 45:44Speaker 00

  There's a community feature.

• 45:45Matt McCusker?

  Got you.

• 45:45Speaker 00

  Right so like there is just like how you have a band of brothers when you're a kid jacking off with each other right you have to that that is true you do have to get into community with one another um and there is like there it is shown that some accountability is is very positive in this right so the fact that you can go to someone for like hey my wife just blew up on me or I'm struggling today right those are like pretty easy examples just the fact that you realize that your situation is actually not that unique that's another thing guys like we think we just get into this headspace we get into this tunnel vision it's like I'm the only one dealing with this shit it's like my wife's only reacting like this or whatever and then you open it up and it's like

• 46:26Speaker 00

  no everyone's fucking life is is very similar to what your experience is so there's a community feature to it um and then there's a there's another feature is which is good for you know for some people there is like a psychoeducational piece right you do need to have some understanding of how this is actually affecting your brain and.

• 46:46Matt McCusker?

  How how yeah what is do you know that stuff as well?

• 46:49Speaker 00

  Yeah like what do you want to know?

• 46:50Matt McCusker?

  How does it affect your brain?

• 46:51Speaker 00

  How does it affect?

• 46:52Matt McCusker?

  What does it do in the in like the squishy stuff in there?

• 46:55Speaker 00

  Yeah so well there a lot right I mean first of all it does you know everyone is always gonna say like it overrides your you know your dopamine you know receptors right so it does like flood it so you are more again what's hard because it's very nuanced you don't realize it's to some degree you don't realize it but it is like you know the greens aren't as green or something like that you know what I mean so like you're going throughout these experiences in your life and because you're flooding yourself with like this with these dope with this dopamine all the time yeah you are a little more sluggish towards life right?

• 47:29Matt McCusker?

  That's that's the way I've heard it it's like it's a uh someone was saying it's like a neurologically expensive event every time you have look at porn jerk off.

• 47:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:38Matt McCusker?

  Your brain you know you only have it's like shooting out little you know sparks and particles of shit.

• 47:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:44Matt McCusker?

  It's like it's a lot it's like every time like naked lady orgasms like your brain's going this is it and it just fires so much to your point where you start starts kind of dull like the greens aren't as green you're just kind of you just don't have the juice pretty much.

• 47:57Speaker 00

  And then like you know you start making relationships with the porn you start making relationships with the hand you start you know what I mean like your your brain will pick up on this so again like going back to that holy D point that's real like if you're really just only able to get off to your hands because you created a relationship with your hand um and your body recognizes that although this isn't a vagina like I can't get hard to this like yeah this is it's gonna always be a tighter grip so there's that you know and kills your it honestly does crush even things like productivity.

• 48:31Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 48:32Speaker 00

  So your output on that um and I'm I'm very grateful because again people are more apt to talk about this shit now there's tons of research going on

• 48:43Speaker 00

  getting into the weeds of how this is actually like affecting men's brains right um so that I think this and I think for a certain guy that's always good but that can't be the only piece right like you're not gonna deal with this just through psychoeducation right you have to you have to have the cocktail of the metacognitive the Brotherhood accountability space and the psychoeducation I think that's like the greatest route to overcome this.

• 49:11Matt McCusker?

  I agree yeah it's yeah it's it's more so a part of like consciously authoring your life in a way where you're like alright I'm just gonna really start with every single thing I do asking myself is this a good thing is you know should I be doing this what would it look like if I didn't and just experimenting that's what the one thing I've always been lucky with I am a big self experimenter I love just like doing weird experiments and like like last last month I did a thing where I just try to work out every day for 30 days I did 32 days just like really hard.

• 49:40Speaker 00

  No breaks.

• 49:41Matt McCusker?

  No breaks just to see like do I really need rest time like I you hear about all the time like what if I didn't you do I got very tired but the um but you kind of like you know I don't know I think especially as you get older because people fall into this rut of just like I guess I go to work every day and it's like you can always be like giving yourself challenges self experiments and do you know I I think that's like one of the best possible things you can do and it's like and again I for me the I was one of the most staunchly like fuck dude if people don't tell you that's bad like there that's just some arcane old bullshit like you're dumb for listening to that and I was like porn rules do whatever you want all and it's like the classic tale then you get older and you're like.

• 50:25Matt McCusker?

  Damn it now, you know, it's like you're kind of like, I've made my bed and the wow, it'd be imagine being way more conscious about this stuff. When I was in my early twenties, I could have made my life infinitely easier kind of thing.

• 50:36Speaker 00

  Well, no, exactly. Like, I think that's a good principle. Like, you want your life to be like, yeah, like easier, right?

• 50:43Matt McCusker?

  Pleasant, pleasant would be nice.

• 50:45Speaker 00

  Pleasant would be nice. I would like not to not get into a fucking argument with my wife.

• 50:51Matt McCusker?

  And it's really like, you know, you really, there's something to that. If you're gooned when you're younger and you're select, you're like out looking for, you know, wife, girlfriend, whatever, you're, you're so, you don't even realize, and maybe this is like, without the goon or with it, I don't know, to be fair. But it's like, if you're just like, used to being like naked chick, tits, blah, blah, blah, ass, awesome. But then you learn like, oh, I have to like relate to this person as a human being. And that's like, maybe that's just the fate of all men, no matter what. But it's like, that's, that's like a tough one, man. Cause it's like, you just, you're so gooned out. You're like, I'm gonna fuck this shit.

• 51:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're just gonna, yeah.

• 51:28Matt McCusker?

  And you have to build a life with it. You're like, fuck, I didn't think about that part.

• 51:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a huge part. Also, like even going to that, go into that point, though, like, yeah, you spend your whole life. I even seen this where it's like, you know, you think you develop, how much of our taste for women has actually been influenced by porn, right? So it's like, oh, I just like, you know, a fucking big tit brunette chick. It's like, well, maybe it's, maybe that's actually not necessarily, well, I don't know who wouldn't like a.

• 51:58Matt McCusker?

  No, it's, I, you know what I mean?

• 51:59Speaker 00

  There's something to be said for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, well, how much of your taste has actually been affected by pornography?

• 52:04Matt McCusker?

  You just can't give any specifics. Like, yeah.

• 52:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, it's like, yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. That's awesome.

• 52:08Matt McCusker?

  Do you really like a short Asian lady? It's very slim. You're like, yeah, okay, maybe I do it too. Yeah, but I, I get your point. It's like, it does, it, and it also like, you know, again, just like you, whether you can say, I know porn's all fake, but if you're just watching that over and over and over and over again, you start to be like, this is how it should look.

• 52:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's exactly right. This is exactly how it should look.

• 52:31Matt McCusker?

  You, you, the jackhammer is not, you don't, you don't need to just bust out the jackhammer on a Wednesday night.

• 52:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:36Matt McCusker?

  Eight P M. It's like, that's not a real thing.

• 52:41Matt McCusker?

  It's not really like that.

• 52:42Speaker 00

  No. Well, yeah. And then it isolates you. Cause then you come to, you know, what's, what's the, the goon caves?

• 52:48Matt McCusker?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 52:49Speaker 00

  Have you ever heard about this or read about it?

• 52:51Matt McCusker?

  I, yeah, there was an article I saw and I only like happened.

• 52:54Speaker 00

  Oh, from the Harper's?

• 52:55Matt McCusker?

  Yes. Yeah. My brother sent me, I think you sent me that as well.

• 52:58Speaker 00

  I sent you.

• 52:59Matt McCusker?

  I had three people send me that.

• 53:01Speaker 00

  I think I sent you that. I sent you Monks in the Casino.

• 53:02Matt McCusker?

  I gotta check that out. No, I didn't read that yet.

• 53:04Speaker 00

  That's good.

• 53:05Matt McCusker?

  That's good.

• 53:05Speaker 00

  It's all about like the vice economy and how, you know, it's, it's the porn plus the gambling, which is, man, fuck dude. The gambling is, you gamble? You sports gamble?

• 53:15Matt McCusker?

  Me either. I'm not a big gambler.

• 53:16Speaker 00

  I am the only, you sports gamble?

• 53:19Speaker 02

  I'm not allowed to anymore.

• 53:22Speaker 00

  Your wife? Your girlfriend?

• 53:23Speaker 02

  My wife.

• 53:24Speaker 00

  Hell, yeah.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:25Speaker 00

  Should you fucking put a stop to it?

• 53:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:28Speaker 00

  Good.

• 53:28Matt McCusker?

  I was never.

• 53:29Speaker 00

  Well, that sounded bad. You probably had a, you probably had a problem. I don't want to talk. Yeah, nevermind. Well, we won't.

• 53:36Matt McCusker?

  The next time. But yeah, I've never been a big gambler, man. I never, um, I get it. I've done it a couple of times. Like, this is fun, but I, I get so sick when I lose money. Especially casino.

• 53:44Speaker 00

  I've never done it. I've never, I've never, I'm not trying to, I just never have been interested in it.

• 53:49Matt McCusker?

  I've, I've, uh, yeah, it, it doesn't, it doesn't do it for me. And I also don't follow sports enough to like even pretend I have it, like a winning it. You know, a lot of guys watching off, they're like, I'm kind of keyed in. I think that's where it gets guys. We're like, no, I'm seeing something. No one sees.

• 54:02Speaker 00

  And that's like the.

• 54:03Matt McCusker?

  Like, I'm not seeing anything. I'm literally, it's roulette for me. I would, I would be being like, yeah, those guys.

• 54:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. And that's the, that's the article. And I haven't read it since, I think it came out in November, Monks in the Casino. I forget who wrote it. I think it was just like a Substack publication, but yeah, that's his whole thing. It's like, we, there's these, we're living a monastic life in the sense where all these guys are like isolated and alone. And we're in this like cell and the only, you know, type of interaction we get is with not real people, right? So it's like, you're not actually like interacting with the people when you gain, like you're not actually like interacting with fucking, you know, Bryce Harper or anything like that. Like you're just betting on him and you're not interacting with the chick that you're jacking off to.

• 54:48Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 54:49Speaker 00

  So you're just living a very cloistered life.

• 54:50Matt McCusker?

  Even OnlyFans, I've learned, you're not even talking to her. It's like four Romanian dudes just around the clock, just typing back.

• 54:56Speaker 00

  Romanians?

• 54:57Matt McCusker?

  Pretty much, yeah. Pretty much. It's just like four, no, really it is like Eastern European guys and they're, they're around the clock.

• 55:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:03Matt McCusker?

  And the lady recorded this shit like four years ago and now she's just chilling. Cause like when you, I, I, I saw this in an interview with someone, they were saying, um, if you do OnlyFans now, so this, this person really did, whoever the model is really, if they have like, they hell, usually they have managers. If it's a bigger, like, uh, porn star lady, she has management, all this stuff. So they take you in, they're like, dude, you're going to do a new piece of content every day for like a year or two. Once you have, let's say like a hundred something videos, when a new per, you just stop. You're like, I'm done. I'm out. You can record if you want, but you can also stop. And then that person gets drip fed your old content from years ago, from, you know, you, quote unquote, but it's just a team of typers

• 55:43Matt McCusker?

  being like, oh, hey, and like, you know, it kind of gets like fed out and dripped out. And then it's just like, you're, you're just like watching an old curated collection while this lady does whatever the fuck they do. But like, it's not, you're not even, with OnlyFans, like at least you get to talk to the person. Like, you're not even talking to the person.

• 55:56Speaker 00

  That's fucking crazy.

• 55:57Matt McCusker?

  Yeah, sucks.

• 55:59Speaker 00

  That is wild. And there, again, you take like a thirty, you know, thousand foot view on it. Like, that is pathetic, right?

• 56:05Matt McCusker?

  It's sad. It's sad. Again, could have got me, honestly. If my wife didn't have all my credit cards, I would have for sure signed up for one of those. But it's like, she's got my, I literally, I literally can't, I don't do any of the financial shit. So I don't like.

• 56:19Speaker 00

  Same here.

• 56:20Matt McCusker?

  I hate, I also hate fucking doing it. So it's like, which is sweet. I don't have to do that, but.

• 56:23Speaker 00

  I don't even, I never know how much money we have.

• 56:26Matt McCusker?

  I don't know either. I genuinely, I ask her, like every, like twice a year, I'll be like.

• 56:30Speaker 00

  How are we doing?

• 56:30Matt McCusker?

  How is everything?

• 56:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Are we good? Like, we're gonna afford the house?

• 56:34Matt McCusker?

  Well, I read a long time ago that Samurai has held it down like that. That a Samurai would be like.

• 56:38Speaker 00

  Samurai would take care of, oh, no.

• 56:40Matt McCusker?

  No, it would be like, I'm a Samurai. All this other stuff is dealt with. I'm not even looking or thinking about this, which I try to do. I'm like, I'm, I'm not, if I can help it, I'm not even gonna just, let me know if shit gets fucked up, basically.

• 56:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. And that's how we roll.

• 56:53Matt McCusker?

  I stuck to that, but apparently it's not the case. A lot of talk, a lot of guys are like, what? Like, no, I do every, I do all of our stuff like that. And it's like, what the fuck?

• 57:01Speaker 00

  No, I don't, I don't fuck with the finances.

• 57:03Matt McCusker?

  I don't touch them.

• 57:04Speaker 00

  That's a very, that's a, nah. Is that like old world? Like classical? Yeah, ancient Greeks. So we're just being like, yeah, we're just being like the Greeks, dude.

• 57:13Speaker 03

  The word economy comes from household management.

• 57:16Matt McCusker?

  World economy comes from household management. We were just talking about this.

• 57:22Matt McCusker?

  It is the economy. Yeah. Good point. I'm gonna, yeah, fair point.

• 57:26Speaker 00

  We're just, yeah, we're just living that ancient Greek life.

• 57:28Matt McCusker?

  I've said it before, money's for girls. Money is literally for girls.

• 57:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:34Matt McCusker?

  I think so. Money is for real. We invented money for girls. Right here, fucking, here's.

• 57:38Speaker 00

  Go do your thing.

• 57:39Matt McCusker?

  Shut up. Here's a fucking, here's a piece of paper we fucking made up. Quiet.

• 57:42Speaker 00

  Oh, that's another thing. I don't even know how these guys, I mean, you have to be taken out like private credit card. You're a really ballsy guy if you're, you know, with a chick and you're.

• 57:51Matt McCusker?

  Prepaid credit card? Thought about it. But it's like, as soon as you think about one administrative task, you're like, yeah, I don't want to do.

• 57:56Speaker 00

  No, dude. Yeah, no, you're a ballsy guy if you're fucking putting your OnlyFans subscriptions on your regular, like, you know, debit card.

• 58:03Matt McCusker?

  It's wild. Dudes get busted. I mean, again, you're in a porthole.

• 58:07Speaker 00

  Well, then again, yeah, you start thinking dumb. You think you can get away. It's not even like I can, it's not even like that. It's not even that, um, like articulate. It's like, I can get away with this. It's just like, no, I'm gonna do it.

• 58:17Matt McCusker?

  Yeah, I'm doing this.

• 58:18Speaker 00

  You're always gonna get caught. I also think like, this is, this is completely just my own thought. I do think that the fruit of a good marriage is that, or a good relationship, is that like, yeah, the shit's gonna come out eventually. Like you, you can only suppress it for so long. It's gonna come out.

• 58:34Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 58:35Speaker 00

  And maybe it's that, or maybe it's just that guys are really fucking dumb and you're in a.

• 58:40Matt McCusker?

  Always get busted. No, women have detective brains. First of all, they're all, they're on the beat. They're tied into a level. Yeah, to a level you can't even comprehend in terms of like reading like micro expressions and all this stuff. I, I learned that a long time. It's like, a long time ago. It's like, a hundred percent honesty is the only path. Otherwise you're just going to get busted. It's a matter of when.

• 58:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:58Matt McCusker?

  You're going to get busted.

• 59:00Speaker 00

  And I, and even going back to your point, like I, what you were saying, like you just like try shit.

• 59:04Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 59:04Speaker 00

  And see if you can do it. Yeah. I mean, that's another thing. Like, I don't think that guys have to be like in the depths of despair to just try this out. Like just fucking try it out. See if you can do it. And there's tools out there. Why don't you, you know, leverage that? Like if there's a tool out there that could, and if you really think that you don't have an issue with it, then why don't you just fucking try it out?

• 59:28Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 59:28Speaker 00

  See if you can do it. And if you can't, okay, well then I'm a fucking idiot and the guys I work with are fucking idiots and we're all fucking stupid. Just prove it. Like.

• 59:35Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 59:36Speaker 00

  It's like to prove us wrong. Like, you know, like.

• 59:38Matt McCusker?

  Yeah. That's, and I also, I find it to be a pretty useful bargaining chip in terms of like, just sex and marriage. I, I remember the day I was just like, bro, I don't even look at that shit to my wife. A, it felt good. And B, I'll be like, well, just so you know, it's like, you're all I got, babe. They love that shit too. There's nothing, there's literally nothing else. So it's like, you know, just you let me know, we'll do it right now.

• 1:00:01Speaker 00

  And you want to give them like security and, you know, you do.

• 1:00:04Matt McCusker?

  It's, it's, it's the ultimate, like, just keep me in mind. That's all I'm asking. Just, just think about it.

• 1:00:08Speaker 00

  Absolutely, dude.

• 1:00:09Matt McCusker?

  Track the days with me. That's all.

• 1:00:11Speaker 00

  Are you, are you a track, are, are, were you a guy to like do streaks? I never, I never, like a streak, like I haven't looked at porn in like eighty-five days.

• 1:00:19Matt McCusker?

  No, I stopped doing that.

• 1:00:20Speaker 00

  I'm not, I was never a streaker. There's actually.

• 1:00:23Matt McCusker?

  I used to for sure, but then I'm just still thinking about porn all the time. So now I just go like, I just don't do it anymore.

• 1:00:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:28Matt McCusker?

  God forbid I fall, I'll get right back.

• 1:00:30Speaker 00

  I don't think that that's like necessarily like a. Bad way of approaching it. I've actually seen guys in the app who, and we do like streak, like there are like streak counts. So, cause I think in some way like it can be good to see your progress. Like, it's kinda cool. Like you're looking in the mirror, like after you work out, right? Like, you know, that's kinda cool. Yeah, but for me, it was, I think that's probably how fucking dependent I was on it. It was like the streak made me think of the porn and then that.

• 1:00:58Matt McCusker?

  Yep. I remember I had this one app, I think it was called Brain Buddy, where I would look, and my little tree would grow every day. I remember the day my tree fell down, but I was like, it's like deflating. Whereas for me.

• 1:01:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, your tree grows and then you think of the phallic nature of the growth.

• 1:01:12Matt McCusker?

  I remember when the tree was.

• 1:01:14Speaker 00

  It's like, well, if that's hard.

• 1:01:16Matt McCusker?

  But I lost my tree and I was like, god damn it. But for me, and I think this is true with like just sobriety, like drugs in general. The guys who are like white knuckling it like, fuck dude, I've been sober six months. I think about it every day. You could do that, I guess. Or it's like, you have to find a deeper level of like, no, it's actually, it doesn't even register as A, worth it, or B, like even pleasant in a way. And people do that with drugs all the time. They find just a, like a bigger thing that they're like, yeah, like if that leads to me losing this, this becomes more unattractive. Drugs becomes more unattractive.

• 1:01:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, no.

• 1:01:51Matt McCusker?

  To the point where it's like, it's almost, not like repulsive, like I'm disgusted, but you're just like, nah, I'm genuinely good on that. Rather than being like, oh, I will do so fucking bad. I wish I could, but I can't. It's like a very different thing.

• 1:02:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I've never got into that either. But like I said, you know, I guess it could work.

• 1:02:09Matt McCusker?

  Also, whatever the fuck you gotta do. If you get pumped on the thirty day streak, but it's, that's my thing. It's like.

• 1:02:13Speaker 00

  Well, that's why like the surveillance shit, I think.

• 1:02:15Matt McCusker?

  Covenant eyes.

• 1:02:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, like I think, here's the deal. At first, do whatever the fuck you can to, if you really don't wanna look at it, just do whatever you can at first, right? But yeah, no, I think they're, like the sober addict type of thing. Like I do think there's, you know, if it's just like a, if you're just like living out of like fear, I don't think that's like a healthy way to ever get over something.

• 1:02:38Matt McCusker?

  That's true. But I, and again, for me, it's like, you know, do you, man. Run your own experiment. I ran the experiment. I was like, yeah, this is genuinely not the move. And it took me like years, dude, to like, and I remember just hitting a point where I was like, yeah, I think I'm good off this, man. Like I really, and you know, since then, I've just been like, yeah, I just don't, there's times where I'm like, damn, that would be sick. But I'm like, I know where that goes.

• 1:03:02Speaker 00

  Was it before you were married or after?

• 1:03:04Matt McCusker?

  After. After, well after. And I remember, I remember like trying, trying, trying, and then eventually just being like, yeah, I just don't need, I don't need to do it. You know, it's like I could obviously, but it's just, it's just not, it's just something I wanted to just kinda like move ahead, move without, you know?

• 1:03:18Speaker 00

  Did she, was it because she caught you? Or was it?

• 1:03:20Matt McCusker?

  No, she caught me like five times. I was shameless. She would catch me and like got me. I really did, I really was. That's the thing. I didn't have like that much shame. I remember being like, damn, this sucks. Like I call this embarrassing. But no, not even that. But it was just, and she never even really pressured me. She would kinda be like, yeah, it's not like, I'm not like stoked about it. And I wouldn't lie. That's a big thing. She'd be like, did you watch porn? I'm like, yeah. So I always, like lying to me felt just like, like, no. I don't know. I just got to the point where I'm like, I'm not gonna lie. But the, yeah, I remember I just got to the point where I was like, I just, for myself, I'm like, I just don't wanna.

• 1:03:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:03:53Matt McCusker?

  It's just weird. It just feels weird. It's just like, it just comes to the point where it's like, I just know if I'd never kicked it, being like seventy, putting the phone down, I would have, I would eventually have jumped off a bridge.

• 1:04:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, there is a lot of guys, dude, who.

• 1:04:09Matt McCusker?

  Just like seven years old.

• 1:04:11Speaker 00

  Fucking guys in the app are seventy years old. It's crazy. No, it's crazy. It's crazy because.

• 1:04:17Matt McCusker?

  It would be so sad. Fear of like, if death is like, is like, I'm thinking about death and this simultaneously. One of them's, I can't have both.

• 1:04:24Speaker 00

  It's gonna be weird with the advent of the AI porn now. Cause I wonder like if guys are gonna be like, well, it's not a fucking woman, actually.

• 1:04:33Matt McCusker?

  That'll creep me. AI people kinda creep me out. Like when I see them, I'm always kinda like, it gives me a weird.

• 1:04:38Speaker 00

  It's gonna get to the point though, there's, I think it's gonna be indistinguishable.

• 1:04:42Matt McCusker?

  Yeah. And again, even, even that, it's like, what is the point of this? What is it, sir? And if it's just to be like, I'm just trying to fucking come. It's like, okay, you can do this. You can, you know, but I don't know. It's tough. It is, it's tough. Cause again, for myself, it's like, and it's like, it's kind of almost a curse. I have a high libido. So I'm like, I, I would like always tell my wife, I need to fucking go. And like I genuinely get to the point where I'll, I like will have trouble sleeping. Like for, like, and it's purely physiological. Like I can't fucking sleep and I know exactly what it is. So I get that. And there's like, you know, but for me, it's like, you know, and that's just however you wanna play it, you know? It's like, I don't know. He's gotta, he's gotta figure out, and it's not like if you do this, your life will be ruined. But

• 1:05:25Matt McCusker?

  it's like if you weigh heavy on one side versus weighing heavy on another, it's like, personally, I feel like just abstaining from it in general.

• 1:05:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of guys who are looking at porn who have on this, like, you know, you look at that guy's life and you're like, that guy has a great life.

• 1:05:40Matt McCusker?

  He's chilling.

• 1:05:41Speaker 00

  And I'm sure, here's the thing. He is a good husband and he is a good father.

• 1:05:46Matt McCusker?

  I would be a fool to condemn a porn user. Yeah. You're like, that's like, trust me. Yeah.

• 1:05:51Speaker 00

  No, but there's, again, but there's, like we talked about, like there are like levels to this. Like you could level up. You could. Like you'll probably be a better husband and a better father if you.

• 1:06:00Matt McCusker?

  I agree. I think that's a fair way to put it.

• 1:06:02Speaker 00

  You can kick it.

• 1:06:03Matt McCusker?

  Well, dude, let's, uh, let's munch. Let's get some lunch.

• 1:06:05Speaker 00

  Let's do it.

• 1:06:06Matt McCusker?

  All right. Adios, everybody. Anything else you wanna?

• 1:06:09Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Joinrelay.app. Can I plug it?

• 1:06:11Matt McCusker?

  Yeah, please.

• 1:06:12Speaker 00

  Do it, do it. Like I said, to the guys who actually are, you know, fucking in it, who need, you know, some help, or the guys who are just like, this isn't fucking real. I don't know. Just try it out. Yeah. I'm also gonna start this Beehive newsletter where I'm not gonna actually talk about porn, but I'm gonna talk about other ways to improve your life.

• 1:06:39Matt McCusker?

  Nice. I thought you were talking about the Beyonce fanbase.

• 1:06:40Speaker 00

  No, what the fuck? Oh, is that what I, dude, I do not, is that real?

• 1:06:44Matt McCusker?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:45Speaker 00

  Oh, that's funny.

• 1:06:46Matt McCusker?

  Is that true? Yeah, the Beehive. The Beehive is the Beyonce.

• 1:06:49Speaker 00

  Well, yeah. So I'm starting a Beehive newsletter about Beyonce and all of her happenings and what she's doing. No. Yeah. I'm gonna probably call it Take It or Leave It.

• 1:07:00Matt McCusker?

  There you go.

• 1:07:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. Take It or Leave It. So, yeah, even, and I don't know fucking shit, but I do know like what I fucked up at. So.

• 1:07:10Matt McCusker?

  There you go.

• 1:07:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. So, yeah, but joinrelay.app. I think the guys, what is it? MSSP? That's a little promo code you can use that I.

• 1:07:22Matt McCusker?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:07:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. So put that. We'll give you a free trial. If you don't like it, you don't think it fucking does anything, we'll give you your money back. So.

• 1:07:29Matt McCusker?

  Beautiful.

• 1:07:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, man. Thanks for having me.

• 1:07:31Matt McCusker?

  Of course. Thank you. Watch new episodes of Matt and Shane's Secret Podcast on Spotify. Do it.