SOTN #12: Positioning! w/ Mariano Conti (yEARN deep dive, ETH Golden Age, ETH P/E, Sushi!)

STATE OF THE NATION #12 - Tuesday, September 1st, 2020 Watch on the Bankless YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/c/bankless The State of the Bankless Nation is.... POSITIONING! The bankless boys discuss with Mariano Conti why. Follow Mariano on Twitter https://feeds.flightcast.com/twitter.com/nanexcool/! ----- GO BANKLESS WITH THESE SPONSOR TOOLS: 💸 CRYPTO. COM - BUY, SELL, PAY W/ CRYPTO https://bankless.cc/cryptocom - GET THE APP (get $50 in CRO when your use promo code "BANKLESS2020" and stake 1,000 CRO) 🌈 ZAPPER - ULTIMATE HUB FOR DEFI http://bankless.cc/zapper - ZAP INTO DEFI 💳 MONOLITH - GET THE HOLY GRAIL OF BANKLESS VISA CARDS https://bankless.cc/monolith 💸 AMPLFORTH - MONETARY EXPERIMENT FOR BASE MONEY https://bankless.cc/AMPL-MINE ------ STATE OF THE NATION #12 - Tuesday, September 1, 2020 State of the Bankless Nation is.... POSITIONING! The bankless boys discuss why. Special Guest... Mariano Conti. Follow Mariano here: https://twitter.com/nanexcool/ TOPICS: 1) YEARN DEEP DIVE (yETH is HUGE) 2) ETHEREUM GOLDEN AGE 3) SUSHI VS UNISWAP 4) ETH P/E IS HILARIOUS ANNOUCEMENTS: 1) Vance podcast highest viewed - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z3ns... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z3nsi0yijk 2) Merch store live - https://merch.banklesshq.com/ 3) Ledger deal 20% off - https://bankless.substack.com/p/the-d... https://bankless.substack.com/p/the-deal-sheet We show: 1) yEarn vaults https://yearn.finance/vaults 2) Trifecta asset tweet https://twitter.com/nanexcool/status/... 3) YFI in Aave https://app.aave.com/home 4) yInsurance https://yinsure.finance/add 5) YFI governance staking https://ygov.finance/staking 6) Sushi yields https://sushi.zippo.io/ 7) Sushi farms https://sushiswap.org/farms 8) Token terminal https://www.tokenterminal.com/ ----- ACTION ITEMS: 1) Try yEarn https://yearn.finance/vaults (warning: highly risky!) 2) Read: How to use yEarn to maximize yield https://bankless.substack.com/p/how-t... 3) Subscribe to Catch SOTN LIVE every Tuesday at 10am EST https://www.youtube.com/c/bankless (2pm UTC) ----- Don't stop at the video! Subscribe to the Bankless newsletter program http://bankless.substack.com/ Visit the official Bankless website for resources http://banklesshq.com/ Follow Bankless on Twitter https://twitter.com/BanklessHQ Follow Ryan on Twitter https://twitter.com/ryansadams Follow David on Twitter https://twitter.com/TrustlessState Follow DeFi Dad on Twitter https://twitter.com/DeFi_Dad ----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research. Disclosure. From time-to-time we may add links in this channel to products we use. We may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. We'll always disclose when this is the case.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  The.

• 2:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right. Welcome everyone to another episode of State of the Nation. This is episode 12 and we have a fantastic show today. We're going to talk about wire and we're going to do a deep dive. We've brought a special guest as well. Mariano Conti, who's going to help us with that deep dive. We're also going to touch some other topics such as what everyone is doing in the crypto space. Everyone who's changing, moving to new opportunities. And we're going to hit a few, let's try to drop some insights and action items. Just as a reminder, this streams live on Tuesday mornings. We're doing a little bit early today, but we usually stream at about 10 a.m. Eastern time. So you can pick up the stream.

• 3:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  You can ask us questions live. We try to get some questions answered as well. We release this on YouTube and then we release it in audio format on the podcast feed as well. I always start with this question to David, and then we'll get to some quick announcements and get to the rest of the show. But David, what is the state of the nation this week, my friend?

• 3:55David Hoffman?

  The state of the nation is positioning. We are positioning and that's why we brought on Mariano Conti, who will be here in a quick second, but a lot of cool things have happened. A bunch of people have left their longstanding careers to go off and do new ventures in the space. There's been a ton of seed investments being thrown around into different projects that are just now getting started. There's a lot of things that people are repositioning themselves in order to prepare for what seems to be a coming bull market, which is everyone's talking about it. And because everyone's talking about it, it therefore exists. And so people are positioning themselves.

• 4:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  I feel like they're not only positioning themselves from a career perspective, but they're also positioning their capital, which is certainly something that you have to do in the bull run. You have to be in the right place at the right time. You have to start early. That's the number one rule for crypto investing is start early. Can't wait to talk about it. All right. A few quick announcements as well. David, we had an incredible podcast that released yesterday with Vance Spencer from Framework. That's on track to be our most downloaded episode. It is just going absolutely crazy. David, like, can you give folks who haven't got a chance to catch up just a quick taste of that episode?

• 5:16David Hoffman?

  Yeah, it's, it's hard because it was so good. It was so dense. And I think every time we have a state of the nation, Vance Spencer ran through and Framework Ventures ran through that state like months ago. Like, they positioned themselves a long time ago. And one of his lines that I really liked in that, in that episode was that he has more conviction in his fingernail than, than most VC firms or hedge funds have in their whole entire body. And that is, has been absolutely true. It has absolutely paid off for him. Vance kind of gave us like the dissected recipe of like the bull run so far and like where he thinks it's going. And it's really just an all encompassing story as to how

• 5:57David Hoffman?

  we got here and to where like this liquidity mining, yield farming, vegetable, vegetable fields thing is how this came to be and like where it fits in the grand scheme of things, which is a really important conversation to understand. So you gotta listen to it. Like, according to its download charts, like all of DeFi listen to it. So if you haven't listened to it, like you're behind.

• 6:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, definitely. Listen to that episode to catch up. We also launched the merch store. So finally, so you can, you can hit that at merch.banklesshq.com. Pretty simple items right now. We're going to be expanding later, but you can at least buy one of these shirts that David and I are wearing. That has been popularly demanded for quite some time. So pick one up. We also have hoodies. Also, last thing. We have a great deal that we've been working on with Ledger. So if you don't have a hardware wallet, or if you have a Ledger, but you want to position yourself for the bull run, you can go to the Ledger store. So Ledger is a hardware wallet and pick one up at 20% off.

• 7:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  So just type in Bankless, you get your 20% off. It's a week only deal. Just wanted to mention that because if you're in the market for Ledgers, I am from time to time. 20% off is probably the best deal you're going to get. David, before we get into the episode, we should talk about our mainline sponsors. Do you want to start?

• 7:18David Hoffman?

  Yeah, yeah. So one of the the cool new products that I've been using that is also one of the companies that has received seed investment lately is Zapper. And Zapper is this awesome tool. So I don't know, Ryan, if you use Blockfolio, but like every time I do anything on Uniswap, I have to go open up my Blockfolio to like make a change, right? And like, I'm a terrible bookkeeper, which means like my Blockfolio is always off. And so I've actually started to use Zapper now because Zapper is like, it's like a, it's like a portfolio aggregator, but it does it with using actual truth of Ethereum. Like Blockfolio doesn't know what Ethereum, the data on Ethereum. Zapper does. And so I go and I put in my multiple wallets into Zapper,

• 7:59David Hoffman?

  and it gives me a nice little report as to like where all my capital is, where all my assets are. And like, I don't know when the last time, no one really has cash anymore, but like I put on a pair of pants the other day and I found $20. And like when I put in my wallet into Zapper, I was like, oh, I still have that like liquidity in Uniswap.

• 8:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  You found money in your pockets?

• 8:19David Hoffman?

  In your digital pockets? In my digital pockets, yeah, because Zapper, because Zapper told me, because it knows where my money is better than I do. So you can go to zapper.com and you can input your Ethereum wallets and it will tell you a nice report as to like where all your money is. And then also it has a cool little tax tool. And the automated tax tools are getting really, really good, which again, as a terrible bookkeeper, is really useful for me. So check them out.

• 8:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  Vapper is the best. All right. Also, I want to talk about crypto.com. So, super excited to have crypto.com as a sponsor. They are one of the best ways, one of the first steps in that you could do to bridge your fiat to crypto. We've talked about this so many times on Bankless, where you have sort of your fiat money on one side, and you have this crypto world on the other. First thing you need to do is bridge it across. Crypto.com has one of the most cost-efficient ways to purchase crypto out there. You can buy it with the credit card, and they waive the 3.5% fee for all crypto purchases. They also, and this is really cool, I've been using it for a while, they also have a Visa card. So, it's a crypto-enabled Visa card.

• 9:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  In the US, it's actually hard to get a good crypto Visa card, particularly if you want to spend cool DeFi assets like ETH and DAI. I don't spend my ETH, but I do spend my DAI. So, if you want to spend DAI on a credit card, buy your Starbucks coffee with it. Crypto.com in the US is a great way to do that, and they will give you 10% off things like food and groceries, gift cards, 20% back. It actually works. So, I have a crypto.com card right now in my pocket, and I use it from time to time to spend my DAI in the real world. You can download the crypto.com app and get some of the offers that I mentioned, including the 10% off things like food and groceries.

• 10:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  Until the end of December, Bankless listeners will get $50 in their CRO token, which is like their loyalty token. If you sign up with the code BANKLESS, we'll include a link in the show notes. Awesome sponsors. This is going to be a fantastic episode. David, let's bring in our special guest. Bankless Nation want to welcome Mariano Conti to the Bankless State of the Nation. He's been on the podcast before. Mariano, how are you doing, sir?

• 10:45Speaker 02

  Hey, how's it going? Thank you for having me and thank you for doing this at an earlier time.

• 10:53David Hoffman?

  Absolutely, Mariano.

• 10:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  You know, I'm East Coast, so it's like this is the perfect time for me, but David did wake up early. So, you know, cheers, David. We'll see the sunrise behind him as we, as we watch.

• 11:05David Hoffman?

  I'm just gonna get brighter and brighter as time goes on.

• 11:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, we all get brighter when Mariano's around. Mariano, all right. So let's talk about, you know, I almost introduced you as the, the maker guy. I wanted to almost introduce you as the head of Oracles there for a second, but I refrained. So what is your official title now, sir? Are you ambassador for DeFi? Are you, you know, just a simple yield farmer? What, what do you?

• 11:32David Hoffman?

  King Midas.

• 11:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  King Midas.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  Until yesterday, I was still employed by the Maker Foundation, but starting today, it's either retired or a simple farmer.

• 11:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  So, yeah, anyone else will do.

• 11:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think, I think simple farmer is good because, you know, retired is definitely not something you can do these days when you are farming. It's like all of the time, you've got to be checking on what's going on in, in the farming space and keeping up with these protocols. David and I really wanted to talk about, share with the, the Bankless Nation a bit about the Y earn protocol, the year in protocol. So we had Andre on the podcast a couple of weeks ago. Folks can check out that episode and get kind of a, a download and intro to what wiren is. And it's basically sort of like a, a robo yield optimizing protocol, right? That's the, the quick one sentence version of, of what it is.

• 12:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  But keeping up with everything that wiren is doing is almost like a full-time job. David and I have joked about like, we could just fork the bankless, like media, podcast, everything we do and just have a wiren bankless version. And have enough content to do a weekly. Podcast and to do a daily newsletter, maybe like multiple times a day. So what we thought we would do is maybe just do a quick, I guess, brush up on things that are going on in wire and just in the past like week or two. Maybe since we talked to Andre and talk about five things. So talk about Ave and wire and talk about insurance. Talk a little bit about staking and YFI governance, talk about funding the doubt.

• 13:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  And then finally, talk about something that I know is close to your heart, which is the wire and ETH.

• 13:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  A vault that is is coming about soon. So does that sound good, Mariano?

• 13:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, that sounds perfect.

• 13:32David Hoffman?

  I think the first topic is actually the topic of the multi-sig signers. Mario, can you can you start with the multi-sig signers?

• 13:41Speaker 02

  Yes. So and and let me stress that that is right now the only thing that I am for for the wire protocol. There is a multi-sig. It is a six out of nine, I believe, that controls the treasury. Of the wire and pro and I proposed myself when they were looking for new members, just because I'm online pretty much most of the time. And they voted me in because.

• 14:15David Hoffman?

  I voted.

• 14:16Speaker 02

  Community for a while.

• 14:17David Hoffman?

  I voted for you.

• 14:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  And how did you guys vote? Did you vote with Wi-Fi tokens?

• 14:23David Hoffman?

  Absolutely. The one and only.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  Very good.

• 14:26David Hoffman?

  You voted for yourself?

• 14:29Speaker 02

  I I voted for myself and for a few others.

• 14:34David Hoffman?

  Nice, nice.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  This was this was encouraged. The I was told that I should vote for myself. And so, yeah, for the past few days, I've been a member of the multi-sig. But really, probably out of the nine people in the multi-sig, I am the one who's done the least amount of work. Like literally all I've done is sign a few transactions, look at a little bit of code. But that is the pretty much all my my engagement so far.

• 15:03David Hoffman?

  So so why did that interest you in the first place?

• 15:05Speaker 02

  Just as a fan. Well, because wiren, wi-fi, the Wi-Fi token, Andre, that is probably the most interesting things that have happened to DeFi since DeFi started. And it revitalized my love for this space. And I felt like I needed to be close to it one way or another. And being a multi-six signer and just following a telegram and having to click confirm on my ledger every once in a while felt like the least amount of work for the best benefit of being closest to that.

• 15:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  So, Mariano, why? Like, why is wiren so unique? Why did it kind of reignite your excitement about DeFi all over again?

• 16:02Speaker 02

  There are so many things. First off, the protocol itself generates money for users and since day one. That is, that is one of the main reasons. It's, it's useful since day one, easy to use.

• 16:26Speaker 02

  The, the Wi-Fi token has an immaculate conception story not seen since the days of Bitcoin.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  You know, a Chad founder, I test in Pro, Android figure, which, let me say, that is not the case anymore. So, yeah, he does test in production. He just deploys and gives us mainnet addresses to review. But there are so many people looking at the code now that it, it has become mostly a myth that he tests in Pro. It's like, there's a lot of people looking at what he writes, yeah. And, and, and yeah, just the fact that, that this story took everybody by surprise. Of course, the price of, of, of the, of the Wi-Fi token, let's not forget that. It's, it's been incredible.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  It's, it has changed so many people's lives. In a month, a month and a half. So yeah.

• 17:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  Can we, can we talk about the price?

• 17:31Speaker 02

  Among the things.

• 17:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  Can we talk about the price real quick? Just because that's kind of fun. David, do you remember when we had Daryl on the podcast?

• 17:39David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 17:39Ryan Sean Adams?

  Do you remember?

• 17:40David Hoffman?

  Yeah, that was a month ago.

• 17:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, a month ago.

• 17:44David Hoffman?

  It was roughly.

• 17:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay.

• 17:46David Hoffman?

  Three thousand dollars, give or take.

• 17:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  We're at the three thousand mark then. And I remember commenting with Daryl, who's another multi sig uh holder, I believe, right? That wow, isn't this amazing? Like, we went from three dollars to three thousand dollars. A one thousand percent gain. Isn't that incredible? Like.

• 18:06David Hoffman?

  That was already the story of the time.

• 18:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  That was the story. Yeah, okay, so a month ago. And now here we are. Mariano, uh, your comment about price. We hit close to forty K, right? Or did we hit forty K?

• 18:18David Hoffman?

  Didn't quite hit it.

• 18:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  In a month, in another month, we went from three thousand to uh over, you know, over thirty K, right? So like, when, when is this thing stopping? What's the market cap right now? So the market cap is seven hundred eight.

• 18:35David Hoffman?

  Oh, no, that's, that's the trading volume.

• 18:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  Our trading volume, so the market cap is over a billion. So it's a unicorn now. Like, was it the case that this thing was just undervalued? Or are we getting into a full hype cycle now? Does anyone know?

• 18:49Speaker 02

  I still think that it is uh seriously undervalued.

• 18:52David Hoffman?

  Wow.

• 18:53Speaker 02

  This is, this is a token that, that, that gives money to his holders. If you, we're probably gonna talk about it. But if you lock up uh your wifi token, you start earning money instantly.

• 19:09David Hoffman?

  So one of the big themes that we came out of with Vance Spencer in the most recent podcast was that like community is, is almost everything, right? Like you have to start, every single protocol lives on top of its community. And that's why I think the, the why earn protocol is so strong. In addition to like what it actually is on a technical level, the, the immaculate conception was the biggest community birthing story ever.

• 19:35David Hoffman?

  And Mariano, you said like you've been in into crypto before Ethereum was a thing. And so you like you and Maker Dow, you know, arguably kicked off what we know as DeFi, right? So no one has a better perspective as to like what DeFi and community is all about. And so when you tell me that like yearn rekindled your love for DeFi. And and I see like this um this massive uh just community involvement and community

• 20:05David Hoffman?

  governors of the protocol stewards of the protocol. That's what gets really me gets me really excited. We've never really had a community rally around this protocol ever before ever.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're totally right. And there are probably many reasons for that.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  You know, you have the you have the meme of the thirty thousand supply.

• 20:34Speaker 02

  You have blue curbes all around. You know, pumping, doing memes, but also explaining like out of the blue, starting to explain how everything works. Friendly community mixed, you know, with a bull market. I know that there are probably many things that went right

• 20:56Speaker 02

  by accident, but many more were products of, you know, hard work by the people involved.

• 21:04David Hoffman?

  Yeah, and that's another really fascinating subject is because Andre spun this thing out all by himself. But then if you go to the yearn governance forums, you see so many proposals with so many strategies that there's no way that one single man could could ever do this anymore. So like we are now well beyond Andre. And and the amount of just shipping of code coming out of this community is absolutely insane. And that's kind of like, again, part of the fundamentals of this whole entire project. So I think that kind of turns us to the why ETH faults. Because as somebody who is straddling the world of Maker and the world of yearn, I feel like no one is better suited to be able to comment about the why ETH fault.

• 21:47David Hoffman?

  So so Mariano, could you just kind of explain to us what the why ETH faults will do?

• 21:55Speaker 02

  Do you want me to start with that one? Or should we save that one for last?

• 22:01David Hoffman?

  Do you have another one in mind?

• 22:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, we could talk about, we could, yeah, let's just talk about, um, let's talk about the Y first. That that sounds cool.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  Okay, let's do it.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  So it is live today.

• 22:21Speaker 02

  It is live right now, there is no UI. Let me tell you what it is.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  The most popular vault right now for the wire protocol is one where you deposit Y curve, Y CRV tokens and they earn you a very high percent in API. I believe it's around 100% a year. What is this? What is this token? So curb finance has a

• 22:55Speaker 02

  has a token that represents a liquidity pool of four different stable coins. These are DAI, USDC, USDT and through USD. And you can deposit any of these four. And you get an LP token, a liquidity provider token called a Y CRV or Y curve. And then anybody who transacts in that pool between those stable coins, you earn a fee. So that is the, that is the Y or Y curve token. The most popular Y vault.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  It's what was called the YY CRV or Y USDC. What did you do? You put in that LP token in, you deposit that and it would try to farm. It will try to find you the best yield. And this is also where your farming comes from. It's you were already earning yield just from this LP token. And then this vault will find a way to earn you even more on top. It used to be, it was, it was farming Y F I I, which is the first clone of.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  Of the Wi-Fi token, then for the past couple of weeks, it's been farming CRV token from the the curb DAO token. And it's all very interesting, but it's all using stable coins, right? You to go in, you need to have one of the four. This new vault, the Y-Eth vault, I call it the the Triforce of DeFi. What it does is it takes Ether. Ether, I think we all agree in this group, Ether is the perfect collateral in decentralized finance. It's the native token of Ethereum.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  It is the one that everybody has or needs to have to transact. And yeah, it is the highest quality collateral. So what happens here is people with Ether are going to be able to deposit into wire vault. And behind the scenes, what happens is this, the vault grabs your Ether. It locks it up in the Maker DAO protocol. It generates die. It puts that die into a curve, into this Y crypto token. And then it farms yield using the strategy that fits best or the one that is, you know, the highest performing. So you're earning in the end

• 25:35Speaker 02

  a lot of money on top of your Ether without losing exposure to your Ether. And this is, I call it the Triforce because it is good for Ether because it's going to drive the price up. It's gonna, it's gonna get it locked up into DeFi a lot more. It's going to be good for Maker Protocol because it's going to drive the price, the peg down for die. So it's going to get it back to one. It's going to generate millions, if not tens or hundreds of millions of new die.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Therefore, the stability fee can be raised and MKR can be burned and the Maker Protocol can generate money. And of course, it's going to be good for the Wi-Fi token because it is the money robot that is.

• 26:22Speaker 02

  That is executing this whole strategy. So that's why I say it's ETH, MKR, Wi-Fi. And that is the collateral, the protocol, the money robot. It's probably the best three-way symbiosis I've ever seen in DeFi.

• 26:43David Hoffman?

  Absolutely. And so DAI has actually had like a pretty hard time getting that peg, right? And for the last like six months, it's been pennies over a dollar, which is a meaningful amount. Oh, you're drinking mate, I'm so jealous. So and and part of that is just because like there's been so much demand for crypto dollars inside of DeFi, right? And so what you're saying is that because now Ether is now involved in the Urn protocol via the Y ETH vaults, which comes from Maker, there's now like a a super strong vehicle for leveraging your Ether collateral inside of DeFi using Maker as a bridge into Urn, right?

• 27:28David Hoffman?

  And so you're expecting that people that are interested in receiving Ether-denominated returns will submit their Ether to the Urn, which will then send it to Maker DAO. And then Maker DAO will draw DAI. And so then you owe a debt and then that DAI submitted to Urn. And then the Urn goes and farms in order to pay back that debt. And so as a mental model, this is like buying, getting a mortgage to purchase a house. And then you're putting a renter in that house and you're using that rent money to pay off the mortgage, right? And so you add some time in here and then you have a whole entire house, right? And so that's kind of like the mental model here. I'm I'm stoked and I'm really excited to see what happens here because the the Triforce

• 28:12David Hoffman?

  model, I think, is very very elegant. And this is also something that we were talking about in the Vance Spencer episode, where we can talk about composable communities, where this is integrating like the Ether Ether bag holders, Ether stakeholders who love Ether, is integrating the Maker DAO community and is integrating the Urn community all in one to generate this really powerful primitive that I think will carry us off into the future.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Yes, I agree. And there's a lot of things that I didn't mention. I'll just say quickly, one, which is, of course, since it is using Maker Vaults behind the scenes and it is locking up Ether, of course Ether is a volatile asset. It can go up in price, it could go down, and depending on the amount of buy debt that the Vault has, it could be susceptible to liquidation, right? It needs to maintain 150% collateralization. In the case of this Vault, it always tries to maintain 200% collateralization, just to be safe above. And the other thing that it can do, it is natively integrated with Maker Oracles,

• 29:23Speaker 02

  so it can read from the Oracle Security Module, so it can know the future. It can always know what the price of Ether is going to be for the Maker Protocol the following hour. And if it knows that it needs to rebalance, people are incentivized to call the rebalance function on the white Vault and earn a commission for doing that.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  So it is, I call it unliquidatable, of course, that is, that is not the case. It could happen, but people are incentivized not to let it happen.

• 30:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  So it acts as, you know, you talked about keepers who essentially serve as a liquidating force. It acts as like a super keeper, right? And pulls all this capital together and is smarter maybe than the typical keeper. It also saves on gas fees, right? So if I'm trying to do that sort of strategy and I'm doing it solo on my own, without wire, I'm going to be paying a lot in gas, whereas with wire, it's just kind of aggregating all of the transactions and the capital in this one kind of, you know, gas fee.

• 30:35David Hoffman?

  Also, gas is at an all-time high today, so.

• 30:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, God, what is it? Is it 300s? Jeez, man. Yeah, so like, even Wi-Fi as a, like a gas savings mechanism is.

• 30:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Incredibly powerful, just that alone. Let's talk about some of the effects that you were that you were mentioning. So I want to share Mariano's tweet here because you know, you made reference to it, Mariano, but this to me was like tweet of the month. Uh, my friend. So this is ETH maker YFI, the collateral, the critical and the money robot. That's the trifecta that we were talking about. Um, and Anthony put together this fantastic meme, I think of like what it might look like visually. When wire and um, starts to, you know, deploy that vault and implement the strategy where it essentially. Becomes another ETH eater. Um, I also saw you tweet this Mariano recently that I think, um, you know, reflects your point. So this is DeFi Pulse.

• 31:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Um, and again, you got to watch this on YouTube, guys, to get all these fantastic visuals. So, but let's sort by ETH, right? So look at how much ETH is getting locked up economic bandwidth, as we're fond of saying, a massive amount. Just in the last month, we've locked another 2% or so of ETH inside of DeFi protocols. Uh, and this is a really fascinating screen. So when I clicked ETH, I'm now sorting by the ETH eaters, the biggest like ETH eaters. On the DeFi Pulse board, you see maker, as you were saying, Mariano, is a massive ETH eater. It is locking up 2.6 million ETH. It's just very hungry for ETH. So is Uniswap.

• 32:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Now what we're going to see is wire start to rise up those charts. So.

• 32:15David Hoffman?

  Or or will it be under maker?

• 32:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  I guess it will be under maker. You tell me, Mariano. So wire right now is um, locking up a lot. Where is it? Uh, I can't find it here.

• 32:26David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 32:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, because I'm sorry, there it is. Number six, it's it's locking up over close to 800 million, um, but not very much ETH. What will be the case when it starts to deploy its vault?

• 32:41Speaker 02

  I, we need to ask Scott Lewis, but I think that the ETH should be under Maker, because that is

• 32:50Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow, yeah, right.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  For the, for the collateral, it's gonna be the Maker Protocol.

• 32:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  So what's going to happen is Maker is going to start locking up a whole bunch more ETH.

• 33:01David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 33:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  And then DAI, there's going to be a whole bunch more DAI minted right now. How much DAI is there?

• 33:08David Hoffman?

  The DAI is going into the urine protocol. The ether is going into the Maker Protocol. Is that right?

• 33:15Speaker 02

  Um, yes, I don't, if you go back to, uh, to TVL USD and hover over the wire protocol, yeah. Um, can you see under where it says 777, it should say it had a pop up that said,

• 33:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  I just clicked into the details.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  Calculating it. Yeah.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, I don't, I don't know if, um, if that is attributed to, to wire. Yeah, there it is. So where in finals is built on top of curve, it's TBL is credited to YM finance and curb, but not double count for our stats.

• 34:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Uh, I believe in this case, yes, DAI will be, uh, counted on YM finance and ETH on the Maker Protocol. And right now, there's like 150 million DAI,

• 34:20Speaker 02

  minted, probably 350 of those are backed by ether. Uh, so the bulk of it. And yes, the Maker Protocol has historically been the number one, um, holder of DAI in DeFi. We've now seen, thanks to Sushi Swap, a big increase, uh, in ether locked in Uniswap. But even then, it's still no match for the amount of ETH locked in Maker.

• 34:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  And that's exactly why you're bullish on those three assets, right? You're bullish on Maker?

• 34:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  Because total locked value increases its potential to extract Maker burn fees. You're bullish on YFI because it's just eating all of these assets and charging fees for every, you know, additional asset that that's locked up inside of it. And you're bullish ETH because it's being used as mega super collateral economic bandwidth, as we would say, and a whole bunch is about to be locked up inside of DeFi even more. It's at 6% now, so maybe we get to 7, 8, 9%, 10%. And this is all pre-staking, by the way. We haven't even talked about how much staking is going to lock up. That could be another 5%. Yeah, that's the bull case, guys, right?

• 35:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  I mean, for those three assets, it's not any, it's not complicated. You could see it playing out if you're paying attention to DeFi right now.

• 35:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Mariano, maybe just to, just to quickly go back. So we've been talking about this YETH vault and how big that is. But maybe just to finish that conversation off and then we'll take a step back. When is the YETH vault coming? So I saw a contract deployed yesterday, I think, but I haven't seen a user interface or any sort of detailed instructions. Is it close?

• 36:12Speaker 02

  It is very close. I believe that there's already a version on Maynet that people are testing. It may or may not have around 10 or 15 ETH when we started our call. I have not seen how much it has now.

• 36:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  That slight smile on your face, Mariano, tells me everything I need to know.

• 36:38Speaker 02

  A UI is coming maybe tomorrow. I know, no promises there. Like I said, I am not involved, say, for, you know, being on a telegram and posting funny memes and

• 36:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  Commenting.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  Signing transactions every now and again. But it is so really very close.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  To be released into the world.

• 37:02David Hoffman?

  Fantastic.

• 37:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  That is awesome. We are very excited about that. Alright, so maybe now let's just take a quick step back and talk about some other things going on in Y earn. Because this, yeah, go ahead.

• 37:13Speaker 02

  Before we start, can I say the last thing about the the Y vault?

• 37:18Speaker 02

  It was mainly not written by Andrea. It was.

• 37:24Speaker 02

  It was contributed by a third party. I I don't know if I if I should mention who, but maybe maybe they will come forward later. But it was a strategy that was written by somebody else. And the best thing, and also one such a cool thing about the wire protocol is the person who wrote this strategy. Every time somebody uses or interacts or makes money from the wire from the white vault. They will get 5% for being the writer of the strategy.

• 37:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  And that is, to me, it is like incredible. So it it also incentivizes people to write code for the protocol and earn. It's I I've never seen a better alignment of incentives, truly.

• 38:17David Hoffman?

  So I put out this graphic yesterday, which I had my my ultra vile dot ETH Twitter friend produce for me. And it's of this like Cthulhu space like octopus thing. And it has all of the different protocols like in its grasp and like the brain is wiring itself. And like that's because it this thing is a like extra dimensional virus. That is just latching on to like every single protocol because of the incentives that every single protocol has. Like every single protocol has reason to be stitched into the Y earn system, right? And not only are the natural incentives there, but like the individual incentives for some individual to take it take it upon themselves to make that bridge.

• 39:02David Hoffman?

  To build that bridge are also there because they can also pay themselves, you know, a little bit of money. 5% though, 5% is kind of kind of a lot like, or is maybe my my mental model of like, how like what that what that actually means is is is wrong. Oh, yeah, there it is.

• 39:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's your octopus, David.

• 39:19David Hoffman?

  5% of what, Mariano? Like, can you kind of go into details as to how that'll work?

• 39:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I I need to double check the code and and maybe maybe I'm I'm messing up the number. But if I'm not mistaken, it is 5% of the profit.

• 39:40David Hoffman?

  Okay.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  So it can be quite a big amount.

• 39:43David Hoffman?

  So yeah, so 95% of what the Urn Protocol earns for the Y Ether depositors goes to Ether depositors and 5% of what is made goes to the writer. And I'm assuming at some point in time, like governance, like maybe this doesn't go on for like, you know, forever, but like this guy, whoever whoever wrote this like gets it for the next like six months, 12 months, like whatever, some some initial like bump of funds and.

• 40:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  Or I mean, somebody else writes a strategy with a with a lower fee or something, right?

• 40:14David Hoffman?

  Yeah, or or a better strategy and then.

• 40:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  A better strategy.

• 40:17David Hoffman?

  Yeah, something like that. So.

• 40:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  But the the genius thing about this is that it's incenting itself to like this is, you know, the the Dow vision of 2016, where all of the Ethereum community was going to come together and create like this venture firm essentially to contribute funds into and go fund itself and go fund Ethereum, go fund cool projects and make profit on it. That's what YFI and Y earn is becoming, right? Only it's like using the substrate of all of the like all of the different lending and borrowing protocols and all of the the money protocols, DeFi protocols that are getting built on top.

• 40:56David Hoffman?

  I one thing about this little graphic is I just love how smiley that little ghost is. He's just so stoked to be like part of part of the urine octopus.

• 41:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's the Ave ghost. All right. So Ave, David, I think you mentioned to me that you're messing around with this, but but part of YFI's growth this week may have been as a result of Ave. So Ave Ave added it, the Ave ghost added it to its interface, right? So I can see if I can see it here. So that just happened, I think, last week. So what happens if you deposit YFI into Ave?

• 41:33Speaker 02

  Yes. Well, there is not that much that happens. You can borrow against.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  There is, if you deposit Wi-Fi Navit, I think the APY for depositing is zero. Yeah, it is zero right now. So you're earning anything for borrowing it. But sorry for supplying it, but you can borrow against it.

• 42:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  And you don't have to sell it. You don't have to sell it. You could borrow against it.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  You don't have to sell it. Yes, I am, I'm not going to say what I'm borrowing, but I'm borrowing against my Wi-Fi to farm sushi.

• 42:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  So.

• 42:21David Hoffman?

  Which goes back to the episode with Vance where we talk about the farming premium that all these tokens have because like Yern, Synthetics, they, they all produce a capital asset, but they're all collateral or more potential like capital or valuable assets that you can leverage inside of farms. And so like the value of YFI token is now a function of how much return you can get outside of, outside of the YFI token, just farming, which is just insane. This is why you guys have to go listen to the episode.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  And also, yeah, and on sushi, I could arm directly with Wi-Fi ETH LP pair. But I, that is the only asset that I don't like getting any impermanent loss. It's like, even though with the APY on sushi, I'm probably making money. This is like a 2,000%. Even then, it's like, no, no, no. Automatic market makers, get your hands off of my Wi-Fi. So I don't farm with it.

• 43:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is, this is the sushi user interface, Mariana, that you're talking about, right? So this is a user interface where you could deposit Wi-Fi in addition to some other DeFi tokens and ETH, of course. And these aren't just, you know, straight tokens. These are actually, you, you first have to deposit them as liquidity into Uniswap and then you can deposit them here. And Sushi is, is trying to be sort of a, um, like, people call it a vampire protocol, but it's trying to suck liquidity out of Uniswap and be the next Uniswap. That's the attempt that just fired up over the past, uh, four days. So that's what you're talking about with Sushi, right?

• 44:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 44:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  It, guys, it's a ton to keep up with here. Like even going back to, uh, to wire in itself. So we touched on Ove. Like we could talk about what, another thing they added last week was delegated funding DAO vaults, right? So this again is the, like, they were inspired by Fair Launch Capital, which is providing, uh, no strings attached seed funding for getting audits done prior to the release of like a, a token or protocol, like a YAM, for instance. And, uh, Wifey said, good idea governance, like we'll do that too. And so now you can actually get capital, uh, from YFI as if it was a DAO, right? To build something really cool. So that was just added. You can also, the entire time you've been able to add,

• 44:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  you, you've been able to vote on these things through governance, right? And this is another, the genius about YFI is they seem to incent everybody to do things, like they incent the behavior that they want. So one of the things they want is an engaged governance community to vote, YFI holders to vote on things. So what do they do? They reward you for voting. So if you deposit, if you stake your YFI, then you can now vote on things on chain. And, uh, through voting, you get some sort of a return. I don't know if you guys, have you guys, uh, voted on things yet?

• 45:23David Hoffman?

  I got paid $12 for voting for Mariano to become a multi six.

• 45:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  So it wasn't just out of the goodness of your heart, you're getting paid.

• 45:31David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I know. Uh, yeah, I, I owe Mariano some lunch.

• 45:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, okay, so how does that work? I've not done it yet, so are you get like while you're staking, do you get some sort of?

• 45:41David Hoffman?

  Yeah, for so. So you stake it in the governance contract and then and then you go and make a vote, which is just signing a message. And the thing is like it gas prices are kind of expensive, so like voting for Mariano cost me like $4. And so like it's good that the wire and protocol is paying its voters because without it, there might be like selfish selfishness. And people are like, well, I'll let other people vote because I don't want to pay for the gas fees. Well, the people that do vote get compensated and the people that vote more get you get profited. Right? So like, so long as you are continuously voting, you will continuously receiving compensation for both your attention and your energy and your gas.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. So you stake the wifi token and then you're earning on top of. So the protocol earns a lot of money, but people who use the protocol earn a lot of money and some of that goes to the protocol. And I think this is by it's either by consensus or it's actually in the smart contracts. Anything above $500,000 that's in the treasury goes to be staking in governance. So and and that treasury got filled in three days, probably. The the 500,000 got filled in three days and any extras spills over to the people who are staking.

• 47:04Speaker 02

  But you can only you can you can get the rewards, but you can only withdraw them if you vote.

• 47:12Speaker 02

  So if you don't vote, you still see the number go up, but you can only grab them if you vote. And then you have to lock up your wifi for three days.

• 47:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  Again, back to incentives. Genius.

• 47:25David Hoffman?

  And so is this the only so the the prospect or the the bulk case for for wire is that it has that treasury that you mentioned? And then it pays out that treasury to the the wifi holders. It sounds like what you just said is that it does do that, but only if you vote. So if you just buy and hold wifi, are you are you leaving money on the table? Like, are you is there no prospect of you receiving any of those dividends?

• 47:52Speaker 02

  I believe that at this point, yes, you're not receiving any of those dividends. But I may, this is, this is probably stretching my knowledge of, of the protocol. And I may already have said a couple of things that are incorrect, so.

• 48:10David Hoffman?

  I don't think anyone, actually, maybe except for Andre himself, I don't think anyone can really tell you the complete all encompassing state of the wire protocol, which is also something to be crazy to think about.

• 48:21Speaker 02

  So much.

• 48:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  One other thing, so that we could talk about, I don't know if, you know, how familiar you are, but I, I saw the, the Y insurance piece of things come through. So this is Wi-Fi again, deploying something that looks to be kind of revolutionary. So this, this appears to be some sort of smart contract DeFi protocol insurance that maybe stacks on top of Nexus Mutual in some way. I'm actually, I haven't, I haven't done much due diligence here. I just haven't had time. Ariana, what do you know about it?

• 49:00Speaker 02

  I know very little as well. I know that it launched recently. I know that it didn't get the, you know, the, the reception that it should have. I haven't seen a lot written about it, but I know that it's still revolutionary. It's a couple of clicks and you, you have insurance either, I think in Ether or in DAI

• 49:26Speaker 02

  over, I would say your deposits in different protocols. You have, like, most of the big ones, Abay Balancer, Compound, Curve, Synthetics, and even Wire in some protocol. And the, the backend is Nexus Mutual.

• 49:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's fantastic. So it looks like through the Y insurance interface, the wire and interface, I could get some cover available and there's almost 100 and oh 10,000 K 10,000 worth of ETH in cover available. And I could say, I want to cover, get insurance. That means for the amount that I've staked inside of balancer as a liquidity provider for between 30 and 365 days. It looks like I can just generate a quote and get that covered here. Just crazy that the pace that wire is developing. I think it's very clear that it is only, it is not just one person anymore.

• 50:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's the entire, it's an Ethereum DAO, basically. It is the entire

• 50:36David Hoffman?

  The version of the DAO that we originally thought of when we thought of the DAO in 2016. Except now there's just more, there's just more of everything, more other protocols, more tools, more developers, more community members, more capital. There's just more of everything.

• 50:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's fantastic. All right. So Mariano, I know we're up on time and you've got to run. We've got a couple of other things to cover on State of the Nation for you guys. If you are looking to get started with wire and we will include a tactic that we wrote up on Bankless. I believe we published that last week to get started with some of these vaults. You could see, to get started with a vault, these are the strategies that we're talking about. You just kind of go here, scroll through it. You could see the various APRs that you can earn through each of these vaults. And it seems like we expect to see a Y ETH vault here on this page sometime, maybe this week, which would be quite exciting. So there's ways to get started with wire. And of

• 51:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  course, this is incredibly risky. I test in prod. Remember that. All of DeFi is tested in prod. So be careful about what you deposit. You could lose it if there's a smart contract hack, if there's some unforeseen event. But for those of you guys, you know, willing to live on the edge a little bit and risk it, this is a very compelling way to do automated yield farming.

• 51:57Ryan Sean Adams?

  The money robot sorts of things you could do and Mariano, we so much appreciate you coming on. Thank you specifically for sharing about your your trifecta asset thesis. I think that's going to be a, yeah, I think that's that's one to to watch certainly and

• 52:15David Hoffman?

  might be a post on Bankless in the future.

• 52:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yes, I think it should. So thanks for joining us.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  Now to you both, thank you so much for an invitation, especially to David. Congratulations on going bankless full time. I I think we mentioned that we didn't have time to to touch up on this, but yeah, there's a lot of people going DeFi full time.

• 52:44David Hoffman?

  A lot of churn.

• 52:47Speaker 02

  Yes, and and it also coincided with, you know, the meteoric rise of of Wi-Fi. So I I think it's gonna empower a generation of builders.

• 53:01David Hoffman?

  I hope so, too. I hope so, too. And Mariano, same congratulations to you. You you saw Maker Dow from the very beginning to to its maturity. So like, you know, tip of the hat for being such a pioneer in the space. You were bankless before before any of us here. So congrats on that.

• 53:19Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you. And yeah, I want to say that even though I'm not in the foundation anymore, I'm still very much involved with the protocol.

• 53:27David Hoffman?

  You're part of the Dow.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  I think that I can, yeah, I I can help Maker Dow a lot more now from outside than from within.

• 53:35David Hoffman?

  So very cool.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  I'm gonna become its biggest shiller.

• 53:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Very good, Mariano. Thank you so much.

• 53:44Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 53:45David Hoffman?

  Cheers.

• 53:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Absolutely. It's been a pleasure.

• 53:48David Hoffman?

  All right. Bye, Mariano.

• 53:49Speaker 02

  Bye.

• 53:50Ryan Sean Adams?

  David, that was just fantastic.

• 53:53David Hoffman?

  Too good.

• 53:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  I hope that was a deep dive on Lion for some folks who are trying to get caught up on everything that's going on. Before we get to a few other topics that I'm super excited to talk about, we should talk about our sponsors again, David. Do you want to start with Ample4th, my friend?

• 54:08David Hoffman?

  Yeah, Ample4th, I keep calling them the king of modern rebasing. So a bunch of protocols have integrated this rebasing mechanism lately and Ample4th was the whole entire concept of, invented the whole entire concept of rebasing. So Ample4th is a pretty simple protocol with a lot of significant implications. It's very much like Bitcoin in the sense that it is a non-dilutive asset. So there is a fixed, fixed, it's not even a fixed supply. There is a fixed value of Ample4th, but the price of the token, unlike Bitcoin, stays the same over time. But the supply of Ample4th fluctuates wildly, just like Bitcoin price fluctuates wildly.

• 54:51David Hoffman?

  So while the price of Ample4th is pegged to $20.19, that doesn't mean it's a stablecoin. Because if you buy an Ample4th token, you will see the value of how many Ample4th tokens you have in your wallet fluctuate up and down, right? And so if, and what a rebase mechanism is, is every 24 hours, Ample4th will mint or burn tokens from your wallet in order to make sure that the token tracks $20.19. So it's like Bitcoin, but like inverse, right? So it's pretty crazy. They have this liquidity mining incentive program where if you add Ether and Ample4th tokens to the Uniswap pool, you'll get an extra little bonus of Ample's. So very much in line with this yield farming narrative that we have seen.

• 55:35David Hoffman?

  And so you can check them out at ample4th.org. There's a lot to unpack with Ample4th. It's, there's a lot more to what meets the eye. So you can check them out at ample4th.org.

• 55:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right. Also want to tell you a little bit about our sponsor Monolith. So Monolith is an incredibly exciting, I think, a set of tools. This is primarily for our European listeners because it is mainly available in Europe. They are looking to expand it and I do hope they come to the US very soon. Monolith is a crypto Visa card, but it is a bankless crypto Visa card. So they never take custody of your funds. This is one of the revolutions that can only happen on Ethereum. It essentially wraps your entire Ethereum address inside of a Visa card. So you can deposit things into it like DAI, for instance, or even they

• 56:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  recently added the AVE version of USD. So ADI or AUSD. So it acts as a savings account, basically. Anyway, that's all in a smart contract. But the output is you get this Monolith Visa card where you could spend all of that crypto in the real world. You could go to Amazon. You could type in your Visa card number and you could buy something. That is really the most bankless way to use crypto that I know of today. It's sort of the vision and the dream that we've been talking about in crypto since, you know, 2011, 2012. Using this stuff in the real world, it's starting to happen. It is a one to one replacement for it. HSBC or Revolut, if you're in Europe and what you need to

• 57:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  do is get started with it at monolith.xyz and get your bankless Visa card. Highly recommended on your journey to going bankless. All right, David, we talked wire and

• 57:24David Hoffman?

  Big topic.

• 57:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  We've got a few other things. That was a big topic and this episode's going a little bit long. Do you want to maybe just finish off that? Because I know you've wanted to talk about this and my bad dude, we should have announced this at the very beginning. So David is joining Bankless full time media. I've been, I've been doing this close to full time for, for a while, but David is joining me and going full time. David, it's gonna be awesome, man. We, I'm super psyched about that. That should have been in the announcements, but hopefully folks that are with us are now catching that.

• 57:51David Hoffman?

  Yeah. So no, this is part of with the state of the nation, right? Like I am not the only person to leave their previous career to go off onto a new venture. Right. And so through the bear market, like I've been working with Realty to get tokenized real estate up and running. Realty is about to release their balancer system, which produces the Realty asset, which puts Realty in the game. Right. Like Realty then has the token. And so like, I feel good about where I brought Realty. And to be honest, like my skills as COO of Realty were great for that time period. But Realty, just like every other DeFi protocol is like getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And so they need somebody who has stronger and stronger skills.

• 58:32David Hoffman?

  And you know, as we all know, I'm much more suited to be like a content producer and evangelizer. You know, a flag bearer of sorts. And so I'm really excited to be able to just like max out my like content production skills.

• 58:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  David promised that he would deliver even more content than he's doing today. So I have no idea how a human being is actually capable of doing that, but we're going to see.

• 58:55David Hoffman?

  There's going to be a lot of content coming, churning out of the bankless nation. So I'm really excited about that. But, but yeah, like, like I said, like, I'm just one of like six, seven, eight people that have announced that they're, they're leaving their job that got them through the last two years in order to do something that more aligns with what they want to do. Mariano just said, like, you know, he, he was working with the Maker Foundation for like the past four years. You know, you can just go on Twitter and like every, every time there's a new yield farm, like somebody quits their job.

• 59:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  So yeah, you know what? It's just like, um, all right. So this is how, this is how sectors are built. This is how Silicon Valley was built, right? You know, um, why is Facebook, why are Instagram, why are these web two companies based in Silicon Valley? Well, it started with like Intel back in the 1960s and 70s, right? So Intel built Silicon, Silicon Valley, Silicon ships, right? Turned that area into a computer manufacturing zone, which birthed the next generation, which was Microsoft and Apple in the 1980s. Which what? Birthed the next generation, which was like Hotmail, which got like bought by, and then turned into YouTube and Facebook.

• 1:00:03David Hoffman?

  So the PayPal mafia.

• 1:00:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is what happens, right? It's like, uh, it's like in physics, you know, supernova of a star, right? It's not just a one-time explosion. All of that material out of a supernova then goes and creates a second generation of stars and then a third generation is born. That's exactly what's happening, though I would argue at an accelerated pace in crypto and DeFi, right? Is first wave maker is successful, right? Maker's successful. Now it's in a place where Mariano is like, look, I can contribute to the Dow, but I can leave it in good hands. Now I'm going to my next way. Is he leaving crypto? Hell, no.

• 1:00:41David Hoffman?

  How? No one is leaving crypto.

• 1:00:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  No one's leaving crypto. He's taking his money and he is reinvesting in the space. He's taking his talent and his skills and he is reinvesting those in the space. That's how this place becomes like the capital Silicon Valley, the programmable money Silicon Valley and selling the Ethereum economy, which is super exciting to me.

• 1:01:02David Hoffman?

  Yeah. So, um, Mariano, he, he's pretty public about his most recent seed investment in Zapper, our, our bankless sponsor. Uh, and, and so, and he's not the only-

• 1:01:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wait, so he paid for this episode?

• 1:01:13David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  Indirectly?

• 1:01:15David Hoffman?

  Yeah, that's why we got him on.

• 1:01:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  Thanks, Mariano.

• 1:01:17David Hoffman?

  Well, your check's in the mail, Mariano. And so, um, and like, he's not the only one. Like, like, like I said, like six, seven, eight people have quit their jobs. Like I've seen like a bunch of, a bunch of the people I know contribute seed investments. And the thing is like seed investments are for products that are going to come out. Like Zapper is already a live product, so you can go check them out. But like for the, for the other seed investments that I've seen that, that, you know, may, might not be like so well-known in the space. Like these products are going to become live in like six months to three years, like very, very long window, right? But like this bull market, uh, the last bull market lasted two years, but there's this also this idea of, you know, the lengthening cycles theory. Like every time Bitcoin has gone through a bull market and a bear market, each one has lasted

• 1:02:01David Hoffman?

  longer. And I, that's just kind of just makes sense as things just get older. They just like take, they, they move slower. And so I think this bull market is going to be long and drawn out because like as the energy of- Of yield farming and liquidity mining and fair launches like that, that I don't know how long that can sustain us. It probably can't sustain us for three years. It'll probably sustain us for a year or something. And then maybe there's like this NFT revolution. That's really hot. We're definitely, definitely hot on that. But the thing is like people are shifting and positioning. That's why the state of the nation right now is positioning themselves in order to like build something that will like also sustain ourselves into the future.

• 1:02:42David Hoffman?

  And so I think that this is the golden age of Ethereum, the golden age of DeFi, because as one thing dies off and and its energy kind of dissipates, like you said, it will reform itself into new energy and sustain ourselves. I think that this is going to be a bull market for the ages.

• 1:03:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, if you, if you, if you think about a little bit like the internet after the collapse, right? So like dot com collapse, 2000, 2001, and Amazon, by the way, lost 96% of its value, its peak market cap value. It's interesting. Ethereum lost 95% of its peak market cap value. But then if you'd started getting into the internet when everyone thought everything was dead in 2001, 2002, it wasn't just a another cycle, right? It's that's been a good investment for the past 20 years to have internet skills, right? And look at Amazon. I mean, it hit its market cap in in 2008 and then blew right past it. Now it's is it the

• 1:03:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  most valuable company in the world competing with with maybe Apple to be that? Like, the last 20 years were owned by the internet. It wasn't just a boom bust cycle, boom bust cycle. That's why I think it is important to be in the nation now in these early phases. Because not only the capital, right? But also the skills that you're developing now are going to pay dividends and and also the network, the community, right? Like, you know, who you know at this point in time, they're going to move on to do great things because they're simply front running everyone. They're simply early. So it's a great time to be early. It's a great time to go bankless. Yeah, I couldn't be more excited. And I do think that, you know, it could be a multi-year bull run.

• 1:04:24David Hoffman?

  Absolutely.

• 1:04:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  David, um, oh, go ahead.

• 1:04:27David Hoffman?

  One last note on that. One of my favorite lines from Eric Voorhees is that like Bitcoin doesn't go through bull market, well, bull markets and then bear bear markets. It's just, it's been in this like decade long bull market, right? And we knew about this in Ethereum too, where like their 2017 bull market and then the 2018, 19 bear market. I don't know about you, but like in 2018 and 2019, so much more was built in those two years.

• 1:04:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  So much more.

• 1:04:52David Hoffman?

  Than like all previous years combined. So like price, prices aside, the bull market is in the development, right? And now the bull market is also in the development, like just talking, we just spent like an hour talking about just one protocol and all of it's one protocol.

• 1:05:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  And one week.

• 1:05:07David Hoffman?

  And one week. And so like that, that development till bull market continues and now also the prices are following, right? And so again, bull market for the ages.

• 1:05:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yep, yep. Super excited. David and I are bullish. If you couldn't tell.

• 1:05:20David Hoffman?

  Just a smidge.

• 1:05:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Just a little bit. But here's why. Look, let's talk about our next thing real quick. Uh, and then I want to get to Eve. This is Uniswap protocol. Okay. So we've been, we've been talking about Uniswap for a while. Been waiting for this moment for a while. It finally happened over the past 24, uh, one 24 hour period of time. Uniswap, the decentralized exchange, the little money robot that was, you know, founded with less than a hundred thousand dollars. And Hayden Adams is another Adams represent is, uh, his first, his first not crypto project, his first coding project like ever.

• 1:05:57David Hoffman?

  He learned to code.

• 1:05:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  He learned to code and this happened, what, November 2018? You talk about things getting built, built at that, in that time period? Well, its volume now surpassed Coinbase. Uniswap's volume surpassed Coinbase.

• 1:06:13David Hoffman?

  And it's first bull market. It's first bull market. It's first try. It's first try.

• 1:06:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  Right? Like, okay, so I, I, I put out a tweet like a while ago that basically said, I think Uniswap will be the largest market in the world. Like we're talking like. Tens of trillions of dollars potentially in volumes in the next 10 years, right? This is how it happens exponentially, right? Like it just-

• 1:06:39David Hoffman?

  I bet people thought you were crazy when you said that.

• 1:06:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  They did, they, you know, another Shilfest hype tweet from Ryan, you know, like that's what we've come to expect, right?

• 1:06:47David Hoffman?

  Top of Ethereum.

• 1:06:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  I'm just saying, like, it's happening, guys. It is freaking happening, like Protocol Sync thesis, it's happening. Like Uniswap being used by other, you know, DeFi banks, crypto banks, it's happening. All of this stuff is, is kind of playing out. So that's crazy, that's exciting. I don't know, David, you want to say anything about that, anything more about that, or is that just?

• 1:07:10David Hoffman?

  Yeah, that's, that's kind of it. It's just like Bitcoin maximalist or like hyper Bitcoinization is happening around us. And like, we are like, the Protocol Sync thesis is happening around us. I like ours better.

• 1:07:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  And by the way, and by the way, Bitcoin is part of the Protocol Sync thesis. It kind of fits, but the problem with maximalism is it's just like, there's only one thing, there's only one method.

• 1:07:30David Hoffman?

  They think that there's only one room for, there's only room for one protocol in the Protocol Sync thesis, but there's a lot more.

• 1:07:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yep, yep, all right, all right. So, uh, real quick then, so sushi is like cloning Uniswap. What do you think about sushi? Have you been doing sushi?

• 1:07:43David Hoffman?

  No, I haven't been able to follow this one.

• 1:07:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  But so it's like yams. The mining mechanism is like yams. We talked about that, right? It even looks like yams, except you, you have a sushi chef at the top rather than a, um, you know, a simple farmer.

• 1:08:00David Hoffman?

  Composable communities, composable-

• 1:08:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  Composable communities, so they're composing together all of these communities. They're trying to vampire suck liquidity out of Uniswap. It does seem to be a legit project. Whether they're just juicing it for the returns and then everything's going to collapse, like it's over a billion in market cap.

• 1:08:17David Hoffman?

  Which is already insane, it's not even a week old.

• 1:08:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  And we haven't seen Uniswap V3 fighting back, yeah? Which is going to be pretty exciting. I have a feeling that that's going to be something to watch. But I don't know, what do you think? Do you think this, is this good for DeFi? Or is this basically just hype, hype machine? Like, where people farming this stuff are getting carried away with fleeting memes? And, um, you know, Uniswap is, is the one to watch.

• 1:08:48David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so- I think as time goes on, it's going to become much, much more of the latter and much less of the former, right? As time goes on, we should start to be more skeptical. As time goes on, we should be more wary. Because, you know, there's, just like in the ICO world, and I wrote a Market Monday piece in Bankless about this, where like, initially, the ICO was good, right? Ethereum killed it with its ICO. Augur killed it with its ICO. The ICO for those things were really beneficial in doing what they were supposed to do, which is spreading out the tokens to a large amount of people. And that's exactly what these things are doing. And so like, Wi-Fi and Urn, good. Like nailed it, nailed it out of the park.

• 1:09:32David Hoffman?

  Yams, so good, nailed it, nailed it out of the park. Sushi, I think, is also good. Like sushi, I think, is a very viable product. And the whole thesis about the Market Monday post that I put out yesterday was, every single protocol on Ethereum, there's incentives baked in to try and fork and fair launch it. And so like, I think over the next like six months, we're going to see a bunch of fork and fair launches. Because the incentives are there. And I think that's also going to be good, because like, that, every single protocol deserves to have its fair shot, right? Like, and so like, if we can fork and fair launch something, let's try it out. Like, that's by no means means that sushi is going to be the next Uniswap. It doesn't not mean that. Like, things are yet to be determined.

• 1:10:16David Hoffman?

  And the thing is, it's up to the community, because all things rest on community. All things in Ethereum and D5 rest on community. And so it's up to community to determine whether this thing is worth it or not. And a large part of the community's perception is to how fair the launch is, right? And how good the product is. And so ultimately, the free market will decide, and the free market will decide based on how dense the thing is in the protocol sync. Because the fairer and more equitable the launch is, the stronger the community it will generate, and the deeper down in the protocol sync it will be. And so, right now, I'm all for it. Like, I've seen some shady clones of, you know, some of the Wi-Fi clones weren't so hot, but like, right now...

• 1:10:59David Hoffman?

  You know, we're on a pretty solid track record of like, good things. Wifey, yams, sushi swap. I think those are the big ones.

• 1:11:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, I agree. I'm pro experimentation. The market will figure it out in time. Look, no, no one is forcing you to buy sushi, right? If you want to risk your capital and keep in mind, guys, this is a risk. When you put stuff into a farm, you don't know about, hasn't been audited from a, like a team that, who knows? Anything can happen. You could lose it all. But if you're willing to risk that capital, I mean, the way to do it is to farm it, right? You don't have to buy sushis. You could just kind of farm it and, and see what happens. See if you like the community. See if the product is any better. I'm definitely pro experimentation too. But I'm also pro Uniswap fighting back, to be honest. I hope they do.

• 1:11:50David Hoffman?

  Chalk it up as experimentation.

• 1:11:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  Look, Dodo came out, which was, remember Haseeb talked about that? That came out this week. They're doing liquidity mining, right? So that's a different curve. It's another automated market maker you guys can take a look at. But like, when these liquidity robots fight, we as users, DeFi users, we as the Ethereum economy, we benefit. Because they just get better and better. They level each other up. It's beautiful. Yeah, I'm very excited. Let the wars begin. Fight, guys.

• 1:12:19David Hoffman?

  And Robo Fight. Nick Carter talks about like this fight as like if in the crypto banks world, like the Bitcoin banks. Because like the, he thought that the era of free banking, when gold was the standard, was like the best for consumers. And, you know, I love Nick Carter, but like, yeah, for some reason he likes Bitcoin, but like the same free banking competition is happening, but it's in DeFi with the protocols. The protocols are the free banks.

• 1:12:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's free banks.

• 1:12:45David Hoffman?

  They are fighting and fighting tooth and nail for community acceptance. They are like, please, community, accept us. And the way that they do that is by doing things right, right? There's no other way to do it.

• 1:12:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's the freest market in the world right now.

• 1:13:00David Hoffman?

  It's freest market in the world.

• 1:13:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  Like Ethereum, it's just, it's the freest market for experimentation in the world. And it's beautiful. Anyway, all right, last thing, let's, last topic. Let me share my screen. This is, this is something on the price, price again of Ether. So all this stuff is happening in the Ethereum economy, but something I've noticed, something we've been tracking for a while is this. So if you take a different lens for ETH, we've talked about this many times. I tweeted this out last week sometime, the price to earnings ratio. So what's the price to earnings ratio in stocks? It's how we assess capital assets like stocks. So if you're buying Netflix, $1, one share of Netflix, right?

• 1:13:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  For its market price right now, you are essentially paying $88 for every $1 in profit that the Netflix share generates. Does that make sense? That's what the PE ratio is.

• 1:13:56David Hoffman?

  So.

• 1:13:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's the price to earnings.

• 1:13:57David Hoffman?

  So you purchase it and then in 88 years, you'll get the value that you put in back? And then you'll also, and then you'll also have the Netflix stock.

• 1:14:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  Exactly. And this is all hypothetically because most of the time, these, what these companies do is they don't pay out dividends. They retain their earnings and they reinvest it back in the business. And shareholders like that, they prefer that, they vote for that because ideally the executive team can generate a higher return than you can, it's better for taxes, all these things. So you, when you're buying one share of Netflix, you're paying $88 for profit. When you're buying one share of Amazon, you're paying $130 for $1 of profit. You make your money back in 130 years. Okay? If you buy Zoom today, you're paying 100, $1,777 for $1 in the previous 12 months profit. So what tends to happen is you can kind of see it here is the market is expecting Zoom

• 1:14:50Ryan Sean Adams?

  to grow faster than Amazon, to grow faster than Netflix in terms of its profit. That's why the PE ratio is higher for these companies. Do the same thing for ETH, like do it, right? And they've done that on Token Terminal, which you can do. The PE ratio for ETH, Ether, the asset is 38 right now.

• 1:15:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay. All right. So this is

• 1:15:13David Hoffman?

  Wait, I thought crypto was ridiculous. I thought crypto was the weird one.

• 1:15:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  These stocks are like trading at very high flying like money printer go burp. PE ratios now they are they just are but the PE ratio for ETH is is $38 so that's 2% of zoom. Right? So this is the next global money system that is growing at the rates we've been talking about for the past year. And it's it's valued at 2% the price earnings of a video conferencing app. Good on zoom. We're using them right now. I like zoom. But it's not Ethereum. I could easily substitute to something else, man. We could go to WebEx or whatever.

• 1:15:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  So it's just I think ETH is stupidly underpriced, not financial advice, but it is. It's hilarious.

• 1:16:00David Hoffman?

  It is. It is.

• 1:16:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  No, it's not financial advice, but it is hilarious.

• 1:16:03David Hoffman?

  It is hilarious. It is hilarious. Yeah.

• 1:16:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay. And then so this is a token terminal and we can see this. So token terminal has done a great job of doing. They call it not price earnings, price to sales. That's a bit more accurate. It's more like revenue. Right?

• 1:16:16David Hoffman?

  Same metric though, right?

• 1:16:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  Very similar, right? It's just earnings is like after all of your expenses and some of these protocols have expenses, etc. So if you were to look at ETH as a capital asset, one of the expenses might be running a validator potentially, right? So you'd have to take that out. But look at ETH. 39 here. It was 37 the other day. 39, right? If you sort by PE for all of the other DeFi protocols or assert by price to only Bancor has a better PE. Everything else is higher. Why is that? So what is when when we talk about price to sales? The price is what you pay for ETH, right? The sales is the transaction revenue. So that's all of the fees. And by the way, this is just transaction fees, not issuance.

• 1:17:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  All of the issuance fees earned by miners. Okay, so here it is if you chart it out. This is revenue. This is what ETH is earning in transaction fees. Market cap is not following suit. Why? Why? Maybe, maybe because it's hilarious.

• 1:17:18David Hoffman?

  Is that, is that an option to front run the opportunity, Ryan? Is that what that is?

• 1:17:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  I don't know. Tell me, right? It's like, I'm just, I'm just throwing the data out here. Okay, so you have the price earnings and then people are like, okay. But it's, it's not, it's not apples to apples, right? Comparison with stocks. I agree. It's not apples to apples. And then people say you can't compare. Well, you can compare. Because even if it's apples to oranges, both are fruits and you can compare fruits, right?

• 1:17:46David Hoffman?

  So I'd also like to compare the, the stocks, which has money printer go bird behind it and ether and bitcoin, which don't. So that's also something to take note.

• 1:17:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  Exactly. So back to ETH is a triple point asset, right? So what is price earnings actually taking a look at? Only one pillar of the triple point asset thesis, only one pillar. So remember triple point asset thesis. There are three pillars that make ether valuable, three things. One, it's used as a money, store of value. Two, it's used as a commodity denominated money. So you pay, use it to pay for gas. And then three, it becomes a productive capital asset in staking. This is just the third one. This is just productive capital asset in staking. And it's got a PE of like thirty seven to thirty nine right now. So what happens in staking is when ETH two comes around, that ETH that you hypothetically own

• 1:18:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  becomes a capital asset that you can use to stake. And you get two things. One, if you're a validator, you get a share of transaction fees. And then you also get issuance. By the way, issuance is not included in this PE ratio. It's not included, just transaction fees. And then if you just hold ETH in ETH two dot O, all of those transaction fees, you don't even have to validate. All of those transaction fees, or at least a portion of them that go to EIP fifteen five nine burn. Okay, you get those essentially in burnt supply, not as a dividend, but actually as burnt supply.

• 1:19:13David Hoffman?

  Roundabout dividend.

• 1:19:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  A roundabout dividend. So a more tax efficient dividend. So the.

• 1:19:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  The PE right now is a bit more hypothetical, okay? But when ETH2 comes around, it becomes, it becomes real. And it's only one pillar, one, one leg of the, the triple point asset stool. It's just valuing ETH as a capital asset. And it is, by the way, absolutely insane to value ETH just as a capital asset.

• 1:19:41David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:19:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  Absolutely crazy to do that. You need to value it as a monetary asset, as economic bandwidth, because 6% is locked up in DeFi, right? And maybe that increases to 10%. It's growing, just grew two more percent in the past, you know, three weeks.

• 1:19:56David Hoffman?

  Why ETH falls technically deployed? Haven't seen, haven't seen the UI yet. We'll see what happens when the UI is there.

• 1:20:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  And then as a commodity as well. So all of these transactions, you need, you better hold some ETH, right? Uh, to pay for all of the transactions. So, I don't know. That's all, that's all I want to say.

• 1:20:13David Hoffman?

  Do you know that, that website that compares, uh, protocol fees, Bitcoin, Ether, Uniswap? Do you know that one off the top of your head?

• 1:20:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Ah, yeah, what is that?

• 1:20:20David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  I know, I know what you're talking about.

• 1:20:22David Hoffman?

  We've shown that one before. Um, anyways.

• 1:20:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, you could look at, you could look at, um, so on that website, um, both Uniswap and Balancer now are ahead of, are ahead of Bitcoin in terms of fees, right?

• 1:20:36David Hoffman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  Um, so Bitcoin is like number four. So it's like Ether is generating more fees, Uniswap and Balancer are generating more fees. And then Bitcoin is number four for the first time.

• 1:20:46David Hoffman?

  Bitcoin is number four, huh?

• 1:20:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  If you looked at Bitcoin's PE, it is 561. And again, this is purely hypothetical for Bitcoin because it actually, uh, is not a staking asset. Does not turn into a capital asset. It's just hypothetical. But if you compared it, that's what you'd see right now with Ether.

• 1:21:05David Hoffman?

  If somebody's watching on the YouTube who knows that website that we're talking about, please drop it in there. I would like to get that up. But the, but the point is, is that like, there are protocols on Ethereum that, I mean, we've, we've said this before. Protocols on Ethereum are making more fees than Bitcoin itself, right? And, and that's, that's bullish in of itself. Ethereum is a protocol of protocols and no one really knows how to evaluate it yet. But like, we do know it's undervalued, that's for sure.

• 1:21:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  It seems that way.

• 1:21:32David Hoffman?

  Quite seems that way, that's for sure.

• 1:21:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  I don't know. But so, um, yeah, why, why hasn't it fallen? Uh, why hasn't it followed suit? DeFi going crazy, why hasn't it followed suit? Do you have an explanation for that?

• 1:21:43David Hoffman?

  Yeah, it's, it's a one of a kind of asset that no one understands. Except, I mean, I, I think, I think I understand it to a decent degree, but like, I don't think I currently understand it to the degree that I will understand it in two, five, 10 years. Just no one understands. No one, it, it's an information asymmetry, right? And, and somebody, somebody's informational asymmetry is, is your opportunity.

• 1:22:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  There you go. I was looking for that. I was looking for it, um, but I couldn't find it. That's fine. Anthony's Twitter feed, but it's pretty packed. Uh, but David, I think, I think that's all we have time for, my friend.

• 1:22:17David Hoffman?

  That is all we have time for. I, I start, we started the state of the nation and the sun was down and now the sun is up. The sun never sets on the bankless nation. That is for sure.

• 1:22:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  It truly doesn't. I mean, we're global, right?

• 1:22:29David Hoffman?

  Global, global revolution.

• 1:22:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  Global revolution, can use it anywhere. All right, guys, this has been State of the Nation, episode number 12. So you can catch this on YouTube like right now as you're watching it comes out Tuesdays. And then if you prefer podcast audio, it comes out tomorrow. As always, guys, this is not financial advice. Uh, we have our own opinions, uh, we have our own thoughts, but we are not providing financial advice on this episode. We're also not providing tax advice. Keep in mind, everything we talked about, wire and ETH, you know, other DeFi assets, WIFE, they're all super risky. You could lose what you put in, but this is the journey. We are going west, guys, and we are glad that you are with us on the bankless journey. Thanks a lot.

• 1:23:15David Hoffman?

  So, hey, Ryan, um, when I hit the stop streaming button, it truncated the video last time, so I'm just gonna, uh, kill time by talking about it. Um, and so, uh, I also want to bring up-

• 1:23:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  Are we live still?

• 1:23:26David Hoffman?

  We're still, we're still live. Um, but we're about to not be. Uh, Nugget News in the YouTube comments, which I'm pretty sure is Alex, what up Alex?

• 1:23:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. Oh, hey, Alex, shut up.

• 1:23:36David Hoffman?

  He said, uh, that, that, I didn't calculate this. I didn't run the numbers myself, so Pierre is gonna come in and fire me, but the WIFE price to earnings is 10.

• 1:23:45David Hoffman?

  10.

• 1:23:47David Hoffman?

  10. All right.