Question Time: Can AI improve my finances? Could clearing our mortgage hurt our credit score? Old paperwork boosted my pension!

In our Question Time podcast, Martin Lewis gives you answers on anything and everything, including: can I use AI to improve my finances, and if so, what’s the best and safest way? We’re in our 60s, is it better to not pay off the remainder of our small mortgage? Will a bit of fiddling give us Section 75 credit card protection on our new windows? Am I wrong to use Amex at small retailers? We have a success where keeping old paperwork, as Martin suggested on the podcast, boosted our caller’s pension by 20%! Plus, you ask Martin what products he wouldn’t be able to live without if he had to spend less. If you want to ask Martin a question, you now can! His Question Time podcast lets you ask Martin absolutely anything and everything (within reason!). So, if you’ve always wanted to know what his second favourite podcast is, how he feels about films that run for longer than three hours, or have a very complicated question about your finances, email it to [email protected] mailto:[email protected].

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:46Martin Lewis?

  AI, like fire, is an incredibly powerful tool. And used right, it can bring light, but used wrong, it can burn. If that is your aim, it is a perfectly valid way to do it, and I'm not worried about it.

• 1:58Speaker 03

  I am so pleased about the badge. I will wear it with pride.

• 2:02Martin Lewis?

  My answer to this is quite simple. I'm totally with you on Lurk. Hello and welcome to the cunningly named The Martin Lewis Podcast. I do wonder what that's going to be about. And this is our Question Time episode, where you are esquires, are extremely savvy questioners. Get to ask me your questions on absolutely anything and everything. Open brackets, within reason, close brackets. And this week, you ask me, can I use AI to improve my finances? And if so, what's the best and the safest way? We're in our 60s. Is it better to not pay off our remaining small mortgage to help our credit score? Will a bit of fiddling give us Section 75 credit card protection on our new windows? Or are they too expensive?

• 2:45Martin Lewis?

  Is it wrong to use American Express at small retailers? Will it cost them too much? We've got a success. Jan says, keeping my old paperwork as you suggested boosted my pension. Looking forward to hearing that one. And you ask me what products wouldn't I downshift on if I needed to save? Play the theme tune.

• 3:16Martin Lewis?

  Hello and welcome to this Question Time edition of the podcast. And of course, I am joined by the curator of questions himself, Sir Dr Matthew Burnham.

• 3:29Speaker 04

  Esquire?

• 3:30Martin Lewis?

  I stopped, and I didn't give you a professor either.

• 3:32Speaker 04

  Oh, what have I done this time?

• 3:33Martin Lewis?

  There's a conspiracy theory starting to generate about this podcast, Matt.

• 3:36Speaker 04

  Who's started this conspiracy theory? Is it you?

• 3:39Martin Lewis?

  It is Martin Mitchell, who was also mentioned last week. Now luckily, for me...

• 3:44Speaker 04

  Keeps grassing me in.

• 3:46Martin Lewis?

  He is grassing you up, and he is doing it not via [email protected], where people can get in touch with their questions if they would like to ask us a question and become an esquire, and maybe even get a badge if they're recorded on, not via that route. He's doing it via my social media, and I feel he's right, because I think you may have censored his message if it had come to you.

• 4:07Speaker 04

  Absolutely. There's no doubt about it.

• 4:09Martin Lewis?

  This was Martin's message. Now, the first bit of it is slightly weird because he's saying it and it's about me, and normally you would read that out, and it sounds a little bit odd, but you know what? I don't trust you, so I'm going to have to read his whole message myself.

• 4:19Speaker 04

  Go on.

• 4:20Martin Lewis?

  Martin Mitchell, who is literally Team Martin, says, thank you very much for the mention. It's awesome to be mentioned on the podcast. That has made my week. I've followed your advice for over a decade, and without your knowledge, I wouldn't have known how to get a mortgage by myself, let alone hopefully fully paid it off almost a decade early in a couple of weeks. We need a round of applause for that, please. Can you add one?

• 4:40Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 4:42Martin Lewis?

  That's the good bit, Matt. This is where we're going.

• 4:45Speaker 04

  Right.

• 4:46Martin Lewis?

  He then starts to get a bit suspicious. He says, though, with the removal of some of Matt's titles, I am concerned he might not let me onto the podcast to earn an ESQ badge in the future. I have my suspicions too. I am with you, Martin. He then goes on to say, are you sure Matt and GDPR, Google Docs professional Rosie, weren't plotting to take over the podcast when she was in the Manchester studio? Is that not what it was about? There has been more and more of GDPR since coming from Manchester. Has there been surrepticians discussion about getting more and more of Rosie in? Because I noticed not only did you Easter egg her two weeks ago,

• 5:28Martin Lewis?

  you, even though I expressly told you to bleep her out, left her in as the Easter egg at the very end of last week's podcast as well.

• 5:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, I am guilty for that. I did do that. I did leave the end.

• 5:40Martin Lewis?

  Did we or did we not have a discussion about it was going to come out?

• 5:42Speaker 04

  We may have had a discussion. I think I may have said, actually, to be technical, I think I said, I'll try and make it work, and if I can't, then I'll keep it in, or something to that effect.

• 5:51Martin Lewis?

  You said the last bit.

• 5:52Speaker 04

  Well, that's what I meant anyway.

• 5:54Martin Lewis?

  You said, I'll try and make it work. You did not caveat.

• 5:56Speaker 04

  Well, it was a very good... If you listen to the end of it, it's actually a really funny story. And bleeping Rosie out would have meant that the story would have made no sense. So she had to be left in, and I thought it was really nice.

• 6:05Martin Lewis?

  I should catch up, those who aren't regular listeners, so you should become a regular listener, then you won't need the catch up in future. The catch you up, GDPR Rosie, Rosie is my researcher who live fact checks the programme. But as I've said many times before, you don't get to hear Rosie on the podcast unless Matt breaks the format, because Rosie's level of authority, the way she bestrides the entire podcast, is too much to be represented by some simple audio file. We can't, it doesn't do it justice. Although later on today, I do have some news about Rosie.

• 6:40Speaker 04

  I hope it's good news.

• 6:41Martin Lewis?

  I have some news about Rosie, and we'll talk about it at the end of the podcast. Shall we do some questions?

• 6:45Speaker 04

  Yes, let's get into it.

• 6:46Martin Lewis?

  So first question, it will of course be one you read out, Matt, because we are nothing if not loyal to the format unless you break it by Easter eggs.

• 6:55Speaker 04

  Exactly. This one is from Tom. He has emailed it in to [email protected]. He says, dear gentleman and Rosie.

• 7:04Martin Lewis?

  Okay, nice.

• 7:05Speaker 04

  Nice. Gentleman, I like that. He says, I hope you take this as a positive, but I've not ever messaged a podcast, radio or TV show before.

• 7:14Martin Lewis?

  We do take it as a positive. We feel very flattered that you feel comfortable to do it on here, and we love it when people get in touch for the first time, so thank you very much.

• 7:23Speaker 04

  That we do. He says, the other day, I got an AI Pro account. So he actually said a different thing, but I've subbed in a neutral.

• 7:32Martin Lewis?

  You've BBCfied it, have you? So that we haven't given a specific product name.

• 7:35Speaker 04

  He got a specific product, but I have called it an AI Pro account.

• 7:38Martin Lewis?

  So I just, just to say on that.

• 7:40Speaker 04

  Go on.

• 7:40Martin Lewis?

  So the BBC has its rules on that. Now, obviously, people who listen to the podcast regularly will know I am naming products all the time. It has to be editorially justified. Now, clearly, if you're saying these are the best rates, then it's editorially justified. But just naming an AI in the middle of a question, I presume you're going, isn't editorially justified? And that's why you've, you know, written over it to an AI Pro account.

• 8:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly.

• 8:01Martin Lewis?

  There you go. We're people now. We like, we like you to be, to let you behind the fourth wall on this podcast.

• 8:06Speaker 04

  He says, I had a play around by putting all of my bank statements from the last 12 months into it to see if it could tell me anything. Overall...

• 8:13Martin Lewis?

  I'm giving, I'm just going to hum that.

• 8:15Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 8:15Martin Lewis?

  You need to look at what your AI account is. Are they, can the AI train itself on your bank statements? There is a privacy issue there, and I think there are some questions, just, just a little note, occasional questions about putting your bank statements in, and if it came, if it has details that either could be used to defraud you, or details you wouldn't want to go anywhere else. I would be a little bit cautious with that, but do carry on.

• 8:40Speaker 04

  Okay, so he's already done it. Overall, I'd say that it's proved successful and identified a couple of subscriptions that I've since binned off, paying for itself. My question is this, how can I best use AI to help my finances further? I'm somewhat cautious to put any more personal details into it, but I'm sure if I gave AI access to, say, my emails or other financial information, could I maybe save more money? What are your thoughts on this? Where should I draw the line to protect myself from data leaks or scammers?

• 9:08Martin Lewis?

  Well, let's come on and just start thinking about what AI is good at and what it isn't so good at at the moment. I mean, the biggest problem with AI on finances for me is who is the source? Right? It is going out. AI is trained on a vast amount of data right across the internet. It isn't necessarily trained on trusted sources. And when it comes to what you do with your money, you really do need a trusted source. Now, interestingly, I and many others, we're looking at, you know, because people want AI, how can we build an AI tool that only gets the answers from my website, for example? And I'm sure many other people are doing other similar things. That's not a plug going in there. And I think that is going to be the future.

• 9:50Martin Lewis?

  What you want is you want that huge, incredible, interactive, engaging facility of AI, but you want to know who is providing the answer that it's giving you. And I think that that's possibly where we will start to go. I mean, I even wonder, and I'm just musing to myself, whether we'll end up in an AI future, a bit like if we look at Alexa, the, the smart speaker, which now seems like a very old system when you compare it to the modern AI that you have. When you, on Alexa, different people could have their own Alexa apps. And I wonder if we'll get to a point where you go to the major AI platforms and you have different companies and products that have their own AI apps, so that you can effectively limit the source that you're getting the information from when you're asking a question to somebody you want to get it from.

• 10:34Martin Lewis?

  But currently, I would be very careful with the source. And I would always want, I'm, I'm much happier to get AI to check something I'm written or something I'm doing than to suggest it in the first place. Because if you get it to suggest it in the first place, I'm just not sure that you can trust it. What AI is brilliant for, though, and what it can do far better than human beings can do, is spot patterns. And so this is why, and I understand why you put your bank statements in there, because for budgeting, spotting patterns, spotting things that you're doing that you wouldn't necessarily notice that you're doing, it will be absolutely brilliant. The, the crossover cost between the AI and putting your personal data in, though, is a difficult one. It may be that you can find a way to put only the data that it would need

• 11:18Martin Lewis?

  without exposing your, your personal details or too much about your banking situation into the AI if it's going to be sending that off to be trained. And so just as an aside on that.

• 11:29Martin Lewis?

  Artificial intelligence companies, when you put your information in them, they train future AIs on that information. So that information isn't effectively private. Now, there are modes where you can make it private, and certainly many corporate clients tend to have AIs which have a no-training rule, which would intuitively, I'm not an AI expert, intuitively feel more secure. Whether that is secure or not, I will leave for AI experts to get into it. So what else would I use AI for? I would use it for suggesting questions. I think that's where it can be really strong. I'm thinking of doing this. What questions should I be asking before I do it? I actually prefer it for suggesting questions than for giving

• 12:12Martin Lewis?

  me the answers, because the answers, often I would want more research. I mean, I'm happy for it to draft complaints and letters based on the information that you know is correct, but it is not a lawyer. Certainly, the large language models most consumers are using are not lawyers. And many people, I've heard from many companies, they draft up what is a semi-legal letter using AI, and they send it off, and then the companies go, well, this is just nonsense. So you have to have a little bit of knowledge and understanding that's going in there when you're using that. I would always, of course, use, you know, template letters and whatever else is out there on the internet that someone has researched in the first place for you, as long as they're legitimate sources, ahead of an AI. But if you want to draft the letter and you know what you want to say, and you've got the basics of the law that you're happy with, getting to actually write the letter, it is perfect.

• 12:57Martin Lewis?

  Another place I think it's brilliant, and this is really, really useful, is if you've got a long terms and conditions sheet, let's say, a travel insurance policy, and it's 22 pages long, I would just put that PDF into AI, and then I would use that to question about the PDF. So all the questions you've got on it, put the term sheet into the AI, and then ask the AI questions about the specific term sheet you've put in. I think that's a brilliant way for it to operate.

• 13:25Speaker 04

  Okay, what wouldn't you use it for?

• 13:27Martin Lewis?

  I definitely wouldn't use it to tell me what I should invest in. I definitely wouldn't use it for tax benefits or pension decisions without checking. And I definitely wouldn't, unless I knew it was a locked-in, secure environment, upload my entire financial life, because I think there is a risk of access to scammers. Now, I say that without real knowledge of what the, you know, how easy it is for a hacker to interrogate and get your financial details out of AI. But I say that without the knowledge to be able to say to you as well, that it is totally safe to do so. So I think that is a legitimate consideration.

• 14:04Speaker 04

  And if you put in your insurance policy, for example, and you ask it a question, you need to like double-check it, don't you? Just in case it's had like a hallucination or anything like that?

• 14:13Martin Lewis?

  Yeah, it's important. You can double-check it. But if you're on the policy terms and conditions, you can, you could just simply say, can I do, so let's...

• 14:20Speaker 04

  Can I go skiing on this product?

• 14:23Martin Lewis?

  Would this cover me in the event there was another Icelandic volcano episode? Right? And then it would interpret it. And then my second question, what's given me an interpretation, would be to say, please, can you tell me what the paragraph and clause that you got the information from is?

• 14:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:41Martin Lewis?

  And then I would go and read that exact paragraph and clause in the original term sheet.

• 14:45Speaker 04

  That makes sense.

• 14:46Martin Lewis?

  That's how I would do it. But this is, this is the really interesting thing. We have these incredibly powerful tools, these large language models, and they are, and it's really interesting, though. I would also caution people, and I'm not trying to get you to upgrade or upsell within your AI. There is a massive difference between the answers you get on different levels of AI. And most people are on the quick or the instant version. And if you're on the quick and the instant version, that is designed to give you a quick instant, may I say, somewhat flippant answer. Now, if you start to go up to your medium level, or even your pro level, if you have access to it, as some people will have through work, the entire research base and what it's checking and cross-checking itself is much, much more rigid. And certainly, if you're doing financial stuff, you want

• 15:29Martin Lewis?

  to be on the highest level that you can possibly be on, if you're doing important financial stuff. And you always even then want to still continue to double-check. I often use this phrase about debt, I might use it on AI, too. AI, like fire, is an incredibly powerful tool, and used right, it can bring light, but used wrong, it can burn.

• 15:52Speaker 04

  We've got James in Cornwall. Hi, James.

• 15:55Speaker 05

  Hello there.

• 15:56Martin Lewis?

  Hello, James. Welcome on board. What can we do for you?

• 15:59Speaker 05

  Well, myself and my wife, we have a small mortgage left on our property of approximately seven and a half thousand.

• 16:07Martin Lewis?

  Yep.

• 16:07Speaker 05

  And our fix rate finishes at the end of this month.

• 16:10Martin Lewis?

  Yes.

• 16:12Speaker 05

  We are both in our mid-60s, and we could pay the mortgage off. But would we be better just paying part of it off and keeping a small mortgage to help our credit rating slash fix rate, should we want to borrow again in the future?

• 16:30Martin Lewis?

  Oh, it's a really interesting and a relatively common question, that one. Let me just delve into the last bit. Should we want to borrow again in future? If you're thinking you may want to borrow again in future, what type of borrowing are you talking? Are you talking credit cards? Are you talking loans? Are you talking potentially another mortgage or another property in future?

• 16:50Speaker 05

  I'm thinking more loans or another mortgage.

• 16:54Martin Lewis?

  Okay. So, I mean, they're quite substantial. I think, short answer, the impact on your credit score is pretty trivial. People often talk about an impact because, you know, they get the credit reference agency's credit score, and they pay off their mortgage, and they see their credit score drop by 20 or 30 points or so, and they go, oh, no, I've ruined everything. But actually, often, most forms of transactions will give you a short credit score drop when you're doing something like that. And it is only short-term, and it should bounce back to normal. The reason is simple, is that, that many, I'm remembering, of course, that your credit score that you get from a credit reference agency isn't

• 17:36Martin Lewis?

  a real thing. It isn't actually a material thing. It's just a product they have to show you a loose indication of how a typical lender may see you. But lenders do tend to like, having a mortgage is seen as a potential positive. So it can have a little effect, but I wouldn't think it would be that big of a deal. Because, on the other hand, having no mortgage is an improvement for your affordability score, which is the other side of the same coin. You know, they want to know, credit score looks, is this a good citizen in terms of credit? Are they likely to repay and repay on time and to do everything right? That's your credit score. Affordability score, well, they might be a good credit citizen, but do they actually have the income to be able to repay the loan, and the disposable income

• 18:19Martin Lewis?

  to repay the loan? So while it may be minorly negative for your credit score, and that's the one that people tend to focus on, it will be minorly positive for your affordability score. So for me, it's much of a muchness, would be my honest answer, on the credit scoring issue. If you want to get rid of your mortgage, get rid of your mortgage. If you want to drop it a little bit further, and so that you're not paying interest on it, and you have the cash you're able to do so, you might want to do that. I think probably the, the bigger issue here is, and having spoken to mortgage brokers about this, is that if you keep a facility open, because you are an existing mortgage customer

• 19:00Martin Lewis?

  with that mortgage lender, they may, it may ease you getting a further advance if you wanted to borrow back on the mortgage in future, that they don't have to go through such stringent affordability rules, because you're not a new customer or an existing customer, just expanding your existing mortgage. Now, you might not want a mortgage with that company. You know, all of those things are ifs and buts. I would think that would be the strongest argument for keeping some money on the mortgage, for me.

• 19:26Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, that's what I'm thinking, because we had to, we had to jump through a lot of hoops when we got the mortgage. And because of our age, and now we're even older.

• 19:40Martin Lewis?

  Yeah.

• 19:40Speaker 05

  I'm just thinking, 67.

• 19:44Martin Lewis?

  I'm not that bothered about your age, in a nice way.

• 19:49Speaker 05

  That's nice for you. Thank you.

• 19:51Martin Lewis?

  I think if you were in your late 70s or 80s, this could be more of an issue. You, in your late 60s, will still fulfill many lenders' criteria. I mean, your income is the issue, but your, but your age is less of an issue for me at the moment. It might be in 10, 15 years' time, I think. So, but carry on. Sorry, I interrupted you.

• 20:09Speaker 05

  No, that, that's the, that's the reason why I was thinking of keeping it, because I thought, as you just said, if it keeps you with a mortgage lender, and you have a history, and you have a history, a good payment history, then they're more likely to look on you favourably if you did want to borrow again.

• 20:26Martin Lewis?

  Yeah. And I think that makes sense. And that will, as you get older, you're still a very young chap at the moment, but as you get older, that will tend to be, have more of an effect. So you may well want to keep it open. And it would be worth talking to the mortgage lender itself about how much they would suggest that you do keep, you know, what is, what's a reasonable amount to keep in there, whether you just pay it down to a thousand pounds. But that's worth having the conversation with the lender itself, I think, about exactly how far. I, if I can give you the answer, this tends to fall into those permission questions, I tend to think, where you sort of know what you want, but you're just, you're coming for permission to check that it really is sensible, what you're thinking. Is that fair?

• 21:04Speaker 05

  Yes, I suppose it is, really, yeah.

• 21:06Martin Lewis?

  And if I give you my answer, my honest answer is, huh, huh, in that, I'm not really bothered if you do, and I'm not really bothered if you don't, if that makes sense. I think, I think it's a pretty fine balance, and it isn't one, it isn't a big decision. And if you wanted to keep a grand, say, on your mortgage, keep a grand on your mortgage. It's not going to cost you very much, and it will give you the ability, if you needed to borrow back from that mortgage lender, to be able to do it much more cheaply and easily, because you should be able to pass. Sorry, that was wrong. And it's important that, don't edit this out, Matt. It will give you the ability to borrow much more easily, not necessarily more cheaply, with your existing mortgage lender.

• 21:46Speaker 05

  Hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand that. That's, that's the way I was thinking. But as you say, I just wanted to get your opinion on it.

• 21:55Martin Lewis?

  Yeah. And so my general opinion is, if that is your aim, it is a perfectly valid way to do it, and I'm not worried about it.

• 22:02Speaker 05

  Hmm. Good. That's brilliant. Well, thanks very much.

• 22:04Martin Lewis?

  All right. I hope that helps. I hope that helps. Sometimes just knowing, and actually, I think maybe knowing it's not that big a deal either way is also quite an important thing that can take some pressure off.

• 22:14Speaker 05

  Yes, I think so, really, because you have to be careful these days.

• 22:18Martin Lewis?

  You do. Good luck to you. I wish you all the best. Come back and we'll discuss what you do with it in 25 years' time. If I'm still going at this, that is.

• 22:28Speaker 05

  Thank you very much, Rob.

• 22:33Martin Lewis?

  Are you sitting there thinking, oh, I know what I wanted to ask him? Well, this is your opportunity. If you've got a question, then just send them in to [email protected]. And please do start them, Dear Martin.

• 22:47Speaker 04

  No, Dear Matt.

• 22:48Martin Lewis?

  Dear Martin.

• 22:49Speaker 04

  Dear Matt.

• 22:51Martin Lewis?

  I enjoyed that last one. I quite like a question where even though there's no firm answer, you sort of know you've given someone the confidence to go and take action. So what do we have next for me, Matt?

• 22:59Speaker 04

  A question from Mike, who has emailed it in. He says, hi, Martin.

• 23:04Martin Lewis?

  Hi, Mike.

• 23:05Speaker 04

  No one else, just Martin.

• 23:06Martin Lewis?

  Well done.

• 23:07Speaker 04

  I had a question that I'm struggling to find a clear answer to. We're getting new windows and doors with a total cost of £40,000, requiring a £10,000 deposit. If I pay £10,000 on a credit card and then the company goes bust before installation, with the remainder of payments sent, am I covered under Section 75 protection?

• 23:27Martin Lewis?

  Have you got more to read, Matt?

• 23:28Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 23:29Martin Lewis?

  I just want to answer that question before we carry on.

• 23:31Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 23:31Martin Lewis?

  Because that seems a distinct question. So what I'm hearing is you've got a new install of windows and doors of £40,000. You put in £10,000 deposit on a credit card. If the company goes bust, would you be covered under Section 75? No, is my honest answer. Because the Section 75 law says if you pay for something or part pay for it on a credit card and the item costs between £100 and £30,000, the credit card company is jointly liable with the retailer. Now, the part pay is interesting. It means even if you put a penny on the credit card, the credit card company is jointly liable for the entire amount. But as many of you listening will have noticed, I said the maximum it can be is £30,000. So it's not the deposit that matters here, it's the total cost of what you're paying

• 24:16Martin Lewis?

  for. And this seems to be one transaction to me with a total cost of £40,000. So in that circumstance, I would say, no, I'm afraid, I doubt you would be covered under Section 75 protection. Anyway, carry on.

• 24:29Speaker 04

  Okay. He says, I understand that once the full £40,000 is paid, we wouldn't have protection on one card. One workaround I wanted to check, though, would it be legitimate for us to get two quotes? £20,000 for the front, £20,000 for the back windows? And then I pay for the front windows and my partner pays for the back ones on two separate credit cards? If the company went bust after installation or full payment and/or a fault developed, would we be covered then?

• 24:55Martin Lewis?

  I think two quotes could work, but they would need to be two separate service contracts. I mean, in common parlance, it can't be a fiddle. So if you put £20,000 for the front and £20,000 for the back, each with its own quote, each with its own invoice, each with its own contract, each with its own card payment, then each could be treated separately and you potentially could get Section 75. I would want a very good paper trail of all that in case my credit card firm, brackets firms, if there were two different firms, these different credit cards fights it. And then you could take it to the Ombudsman. But I think, you know, I've seen a lot of fighting over big Section 75 claims in the past.

• 25:39Martin Lewis?

  And I think if the credit card company knew that of this space, it may well argue it's one transaction. So you would need to do everything you can to make sure this really is distinctly and separately two transactions. It could even be that you do it in two tranches. I don't know if that's possible. You do one lot of work and then once that work's done, then you agree to do the second load of work and you keep them as properly separate transactions that's going on when I would say it would be covered. Now, if you do get to that point and you are asked questions, we must always be honest with the credit card company because it would be fraud to tell anything of her. I mean, I always remember one case, I'm semi-making up these numbers now, so it doesn't really matter. Of a woman, having read the guide I had, I think she put a £500,000 deposit on her

• 26:23Martin Lewis?

  kitchen on a credit card and the kitchen was £18,000 and the credit card company went bust. And then she obviously went for Section 75 and she went to the credit card company and the credit card company said, Matt.

• 26:35Speaker 04

  Said what?

• 26:36Martin Lewis?

  Well, what did you think they said?

• 26:37Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 26:37Martin Lewis?

  When she's asked for the money back? They said, no, of course they said no.

• 26:39Speaker 04

  Why?

• 26:40Martin Lewis?

  Because they don't want to pay her 18 grands when she only paid £1,000 on the credit card.

• 26:44Speaker 04

  Ah.

• 26:45Martin Lewis?

  Right? So they said no. And then she followed up and went to the Ombudsman and the Ombudsman ruled in her favour, made sure she got all the money and compensation. As I say, some of those figures may be slightly wrong, but they're in the right ballpark when we go there. So don't expect them to automatically play ball, but absolutely do go through to the Ombudsman. Now, look, the best case scenario we have here is you put the money on the credit card, you pay the deposit, the firm that you're paying doesn't go bust, everything's absolutely fine and you never need to explore whether this worked or not. I think splitting it into two properly legitimate, separate transactions, it genuinely have to be legitimate and separate, would give you a better chance of having Section 75 protection. But I'm not going to give you a cast iron on that because ultimately it'd come down to an Ombudsman decision on it. And if they thought that this had been manipulated, there is a chance they may rule against you

• 27:30Martin Lewis?

  and say that it doesn't count. But I think you're thinking in the right direction on that basis. Matt, I want to do a technical note on the back of that answer. Can you do it for me?

• 27:40Speaker 04

  I'll do it.

• 27:41Martin Lewis?

  Here we go. So my technical note, everybody, is just to be really, really accurate.

• 27:47Martin Lewis?

  Section 75 applies for a transaction over £100. So a £100 transaction is not covered by Section 75. A £100 and a penny transaction is covered by Section 75. And it includes transactions up and to and including £30,000. So a £30,000 transaction is covered by Section 75. A £30,000 and a penny transaction isn't covered by Section 75. Technical note over.

• 28:22Martin Lewis?

  Now, Matt, if I'd fed in 10 of our past Question Time podcasts into an AI and I asked it at this point, what's coming next? It would say, coming next in the Martin Lewis Question Time podcast, Matt will present a caller to Martin. Because Matt tends to put callers into the even number slots. Would it be right?

• 28:46Speaker 04

  This week, it would be correct.

• 28:49Martin Lewis?

  See, AI does get some things right.

• 28:51Speaker 04

  Sometimes, yeah. It's Jan. Jan's in Mid Wales. She did tell me where she's from, but she said it's difficult to pronounce. And I'm going to try and pronounce where she's from in Wales.

• 29:01Martin Lewis?

  Yeah, hopefully you make a big mess of it and I can make fun of you for it. That would be great.

• 29:04Speaker 04

  I think, Jan, correct me if I'm wrong, Bilf Wells?

• 29:08Speaker 03

  That's very good.

• 29:09Martin Lewis?

  Oh, how disappointing, Jan.

• 29:11Speaker 04

  Where's my clap? Where's my applause?

• 29:13Martin Lewis?

  Jan, you should have told him somewhere entirely different. You should have told him, you know, he pronounced it Cardiff and then you could say, there's nothing like that.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  I wouldn't be so mean.

• 29:23Martin Lewis?

  I would.

• 29:24Speaker 04

  Some people are nice, Martin.

• 29:26Martin Lewis?

  Right, Jan, what can we do for you?

• 29:29Speaker 03

  Well, I'm coming on to tell you about my success. On a recent podcast, you discussed how long to keep paperwork for. I realised the importance of this when drawing my NHS pension four years ago. I left the NHS in 1992 and I reached the age, pension age, in 2022.

• 29:54Martin Lewis?

  What did you do for the NHS, if I can ask?

• 29:56Speaker 03

  I was, I was an administrator. I was one of the dreaded administrators.

• 30:00Martin Lewis?

  Well, thank you for making the place work.

• 30:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:04Martin Lewis?

  It needs to work.

• 30:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's what I did. So when I, when they contact, when the NHS pension people contacted me, I looked at what the projection was going to be. And I'd only done eight years in the NHS before I left to have a family. And I looked at the amount of money and thought, hmm, that's not quite right. So I went back to them and said, I don't think you've made the right calculation. And they said, oh, yeah, we have. Yeah. I said, no, you haven't, I said, because I perhaps unusually left the job I was in when I, when I had my baby and went, went back to a lower paid job.

• 30:42Martin Lewis?

  Yes.

• 30:42Speaker 03

  And the NHS scheme at the time was your best pay, best 12 months pay, in the last 36 months you were working in the NHS. So, no, they'd calculated it as being my last 12 months. I went to appeal and they said, no. And I said, well, so I said, well, what information are you using? And they said, oh, well, whatever the NHS had sent them, which was based on just 12 months, 12 calendar months.

• 31:11Martin Lewis?

  Right.

• 31:11Speaker 03

  You know, starting on a March through to around to March of financial year. And of course, my best years were, were in August to an August. So they, they said, oh, why don't you go back to your NHS employer and ask them for more information?

• 31:28Martin Lewis?

  Your dog, your dog is excited by this story.

• 31:32Speaker 03

  Yes, very excited.

• 31:34Martin Lewis?

  What's the dog's name?

• 31:36Speaker 03

  The dog, the dog is called Bronwyn.

• 31:38Martin Lewis?

  Bronwyn.

• 31:39Speaker 04

  Bronwyn, oh, great name.

• 31:40Martin Lewis?

  Does Bronwyn always bark when you start talking money? Is this something you've trained?

• 31:45Speaker 03

  No, no, the postman's just arrived, that's what.

• 31:49Speaker 04

  Typical.

• 31:51Speaker 03

  So anyway, they suggested I went back to the NHS pension, the NHS pays department. And unfortunately, that NHS pay department had disappeared a very long time ago with mergers and that kind of thing. So I couldn't get any, and they didn't have any information to give me. And so they were saying, no, no, that's right, that's right. And I said, well, you're not. So anyway, I went to that box at the back of the wardrobe, which, you know, you tell us we should all have. And I found my pay slips from 1990 through to 1992, which was the period that it concerned, which gave me all the evidence to go back to them and

• 32:32Speaker 03

  say, here we are. These are my pay slips. And I went to appeal then, and the adjudicator said, yeah, you're right. They're wrong. And my pension was uprated by 20%.

• 32:46Martin Lewis?

  20%? Wow.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:49Martin Lewis?

  And that's real money.

• 32:50Speaker 03

  It was real money. I mean, it was only, I'd only been working for eight years, but I can tell you, it made quite a lot of difference when you've got a small pension, when you get 20% more.

• 33:00Martin Lewis?

  Absolutely. How wonderful.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was. I was very pleased with myself because I'm not, I'm not very good at keeping paperwork, but I did put those pay slips in a folder, in a box, at the back of the wardrobe. I've moved house, I've had three children, but I still knew where to find that box. So I was feeling quite pleased with myself.

• 33:20Martin Lewis?

  Well, very pleased to hear it. And yeah, so now, I tend to talk about this. My whole thing is, people always ask me, how long do you keep paperwork for? And the sort of the official rules are, whether it's four or six years, depending on your circumstances. My answer is, you keep the important stuff forever. It doesn't need to be paper, you just need to keep a record. You can take a photo of it, you can digitise it. And you don't actually need the cupboard in the back of the wardrobe, though if you choose to do it that way, that's absolutely cool. And the reason for this, and I talked before on the podcast, was I'd written a blog way back when, I can't remember, 2010 or something, that said, basically, we don't know what the future misselling scandals will be, we don't know what the future problems will be, and lack of paperwork because modern data

• 34:04Martin Lewis?

  protection says that firms should not be keeping more data than they need on you. So often they get rid of old data. But that is the crucial thing that you need to prove your case. And you are a brilliant example of that. If it wasn't for your slightly, let's call it data hoarding, in a nice way.

• 34:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 34:24Martin Lewis?

  Your data hoarding has materially increased the amount of money you've got. And the problem when people say, what should I keep is, well, we don't know because we don't know where you'll need it. So as many sample pay slips, as many sample bank statements, as all the signing up to new product documentation that you can possibly photograph and store away in a secured way on your computer, or if you want, in a box in the back of the wardrobe, you just never know when it's going to pay dividends later. Lovely story, Jan. Thank you so much.

• 34:53Speaker 03

  Thank you very much. And thank you for everything you do. You talk such common sense.

• 34:58Martin Lewis?

  Oh, thank you. That's very kind. Thank you so much.

• 35:00Speaker 03

  Thanks very much. Thank you. Bye bye.

• 35:01Martin Lewis?

  And you're going to get a badge, of course.

• 35:03Speaker 03

  Oh, am I? Oh.

• 35:04Martin Lewis?

  You are.

• 35:05Speaker 03

  I am so pleased about the badge.

• 35:07Martin Lewis?

  The badge is coming.

• 35:09Speaker 03

  I will wear it with pride.

• 35:10Speaker 04

  Thanks, Jan. Appreciate it.

• 35:12Speaker 03

  Thanks then. Bye bye. Bye.

• 35:17Martin Lewis?

  So Matt, we've done two callers, we've done two reads. I think we've got space for one more proper question.

• 35:24Speaker 04

  You want to squeeze one in?

• 35:25Martin Lewis?

  Squeeze one in.

• 35:25Speaker 04

  Oh, let's do it. Breaking the format a little bit here.

• 35:28Martin Lewis?

  That was my squeezing in noise. I don't know what it means.

• 35:30Speaker 04

  That's weird.

• 35:31Martin Lewis?

  I have no idea what it was. I'm not, I don't know whether you should leave that in. Just carry on. Let's move on. Pretend it never happened.

• 35:37Speaker 04

  This one's from Kate. She says, hello, a bit of an unusual question for you. We've recently got an Amex card, American Express, so we can build up our points for rewards and travel. We're trying to put as much of our monthly spending on it as possible and pay it off in full each month.

• 35:51Martin Lewis?

  Is that your best in full?

• 35:53Speaker 04

  And pay it off in full.

• 35:54Martin Lewis?

  In full. There we go. Carry on.

• 35:56Speaker 04

  I know Amex have higher card fees for shops than Visa and Mastercard. So my moral dilemma is, should I still use it in small local businesses as the fees will hit them harder and I feel bad because I want to support them? Or do I just accept that they take Amex, they've already accounted for the higher fees and just keep using it? What would you do?

• 36:15Martin Lewis?

  I would see it on the latter level. Many small retailers choose not to take Amex. Those who have chosen to accept it have chosen to do so, and I'm sure would welcome your business. They have had to factor that in if they've decided to take Amex. Now, Amex used to have its local trader scheme, which was a £5 boost at Christmas if you spent on one of its small trader schemes. But I think honestly, when I sum it all up, my answer to this is quite simple. If you want to use Amex and it's with a small trader and they accept Amex, just ask them, are you okay if I use Amex? I could use another card, but I get better rewards. Would you prefer me to use another card? If you're feeling it's a moral issue, have the conversation with them. I'm sure they'll welcome you being considerate enough to ask. Some may say yes, some may say it's no problem.

• 36:58Speaker 04

  Me again, interrupting after we finish recording because you know the drill. It's a BBC podcast, so I put this question to American Express. And a spokesperson told me, American Express has a long history of supporting small businesses, including as founder and principal supporter of Small Business Saturday. Accepting American Express is a choice that an increasing number of UK small businesses are making, with the number doing so having grown by 67% over the past three years. Smaller merchants benefit from a dedicated, single rate with no setup costs, fees or hidden fees.

• 37:31Martin Lewis?

  And that was a short one, wasn't it?

• 37:32Speaker 04

  That was a short one.

• 37:33Martin Lewis?

  We did squeeze that in.

• 37:37Martin Lewis?

  That was sort of an orange squeezing type thing there.

• 37:41Martin Lewis?

  Right. I think we're already in a scans, aren't we?

• 37:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think so.

• 37:45Martin Lewis?

  I think we're already in a scan some funny territory. Have you gotten a scan some funny question for me to finish off with?

• 37:50Speaker 04

  Of course I do. So after you've put your pitch out for people to send them in, people are sending them in.

• 37:54Martin Lewis?

  Good. I'm glad.

• 37:56Speaker 04

  This one's from Constantine. Dear Martin and Matt, he says, I have a fun question for you both. Martin, if you had to undergo a money makeover and drastically cut your costs. What would you not be able to live without? He says, for me, it would be high quality paper towels and toilet paper.

• 38:14Martin Lewis?

  I'm in, brother.

• 38:14Speaker 04

  I don't know why, but I've always bought the best I can afford and absolutely cannot bring myself to switch to lower quality versions.

• 38:21Martin Lewis?

  Okay, this is an interesting one. So many, many years ago, I invented a thing called the downshift challenge. And I was doing it on telly. It's got to be over 20 years ago now. And the downshift challenge was simple. It said, we would take a family and we would get their supermarket shop, and then we would buy an identical basket of supermarket shopping down one brand level from what they normally got. So if they normally went for, you know, taste the difference or finest or whatever it is, we'd go for generic brand. If they went for generic brand, we'd go for own brand. If they went for own brand, we'd go for the savers brand. And the maths was quite interesting. On average, you'd find that by doing that, you would save 30% on your shopping trolley. You know, so if you were spending £100, you'd now be spending £70. So that was the rough equivalent of

• 39:03Martin Lewis?

  one brand level down. And that equation still works today, though it can vary depending on where your start brand is roughly. And the experiment we then did was to get the family to try and see where they couldn't notice the difference. And the rule was, if you can't notice the difference, you go with the cheaper brand. If you can notice the difference, you go back to where you were. And roughly on half the products, they couldn't notice the difference. So it was a way of cutting 15% on the family shop. I then went on, because it's television, to do double downshift challenge and to do various other things. And it's a format I don't do anymore, but I have seen other people take it up since. Shall I phrase it that way? But for me, it feels a bit, it feels a bit naughties. So it's not something I do, although I still have, you know, still talk about doing downshifting.

• 39:48Martin Lewis?

  So I have been through this. And I think there's nothing wrong with trying a brand level lower. And there's nothing wrong as long as you can afford it. If you can't afford it, you have to go lower. But if you can afford it, with saying, actually, I do notice the difference and I'm willing to pay the extra for quality. Now, on mine, certain things, I'm totally with you on Luroll.

• 40:08Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:08Martin Lewis?

  I want my nice Luroll.

• 40:10Speaker 04

  Agreed.

• 40:10Martin Lewis?

  I also, and I do drink colas, I can tell the difference on branded colas. Right? And I can equally tell the difference between a main brand cola and its Zero or Max version and its diet version. Do you know, by the way, the difference between the diet versions and the Zero and Max versions?

• 40:31Speaker 04

  I want to say there's absolutely no difference. It's just a marketing thing.

• 40:34Martin Lewis?

  You would be wrong.

• 40:35Speaker 04

  Really?

• 40:36Martin Lewis?

  You would be wrong.

• 40:37Speaker 04

  Pray tell.

• 40:38Martin Lewis?

  Here we go. When they originally wanted to bring out the diet, the no calorie drinks, the saccharin technology wasn't good enough. So actually, we're going to have to say the brands. Actually, Diet Coke is an entirely different recipe to Coca-Cola. Diet Pepsi, entirely different recipe for Pepsi-Cola. As saccharin technology improved, they then got to the point where they could basically make the main recipe of the drink, and they could just replace the sugar with a sweetener. And that's what the Zeros and Max are. They're not 100% identical, but they're basically the same recipe as the main one.

• 41:18Speaker 04

  Cool.

• 41:19Martin Lewis?

  I thought that was interesting. Matt's not finding that interesting.

• 41:22Speaker 04

  No, I do find it interesting. I thought you were going to carry on talking.

• 41:24Martin Lewis?

  Rosie, Rosie, I'm wrong. Rosie's not in the studio with me, as we'll discuss more in a moment. Rosie, can you give me, can you tell me, but we cannot be heard, Matt?

• 41:32Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 41:32Martin Lewis?

  Did you find it interesting?

• 41:36Martin Lewis?

  Rosie said she thought I'd told her it before. Isabel, and you'll discover who Isabel is soon. Isabel, you can't speak because we haven't made that decision yet. Isabel, interesting or not, you could do it with a hand gesture, a thumb up, a thumb down, or maybe a handy wobble. Thumb up from Isabel. Well done Isabel. I'm glad Isabel's here. Rosie's going to say she's a suck up now.

• 41:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:57Martin Lewis?

  So I thought that was interesting. Anyway, there are also, I should say, places I don't mind downshifting on baked beans, although I like a barbecue baked beans. There are places I would never upshift. Now, I'd never go for the top level on ketchup or mint sauce.

• 42:13Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 42:14Martin Lewis?

  If someone serves me a really posh mint sauce, I love my mint sauce and I like that sort of hardcore, makes your mouth go

• 42:22Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:23Martin Lewis?

  vinegary taste.

• 42:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:24Martin Lewis?

  And if you get the posh mint sauces or the posh mint jellies, they don't have that because they're all meant to be smooth. I don't want it smooth. I want to be slapped across the face and poked in the eyes when I have my mint sauce. And the same with my ketchup. I want the cheap vinegary ketchup that really gives you a whack. Those are my so I so and yes, I know they're not very healthy, but I don't have too much of them. Please, no need to write in about that. So yes, there are places I'd upshift and there are places I'd downshift. And I actually think the key is just to try and to experiment and to see what's out there and what works for you.

• 42:52Speaker 04

  The one thing that I, I know they didn't ask me, but I would tell you.

• 42:56Martin Lewis?

  I'm asking you.

• 42:57Speaker 04

  Okay. Tinned tomatoes. I would never downshift on a tinned tomato.

• 43:03Martin Lewis?

  See, I don't do, I don't like tomatoes.

• 43:05Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 43:05Martin Lewis?

  They're not in the olives, which are evil grapes and no one should ever touch.

• 43:09Speaker 04

  You don't like olives?

• 43:10Martin Lewis?

  I despise olives.

• 43:11Speaker 04

  Really?

• 43:11Martin Lewis?

  And both the other, the other two women I live with, my wife and my daughter, they are both big olive fans.

• 43:17Speaker 04

  I love an olive.

• 43:18Martin Lewis?

  Evil grape, shouldn't be touched.

• 43:20Speaker 04

  You have to force yourself to eat them.

• 43:22Martin Lewis?

  I can't eat them. I don't believe in acquired taste. Why would I want to acquire a taste? If I don't like it in the first place, why am I going to force myself to get there? It's probably the reason I don't drink beer.

• 43:30Speaker 04

  There you go.

• 43:31Martin Lewis?

  I think we should stop that, except I have to give the Rosie news.

• 43:34Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. I hope it's good news.

• 43:37Martin Lewis?

  It is good news. It's good news for everyone, but it's also bad news.

• 43:40Speaker 04

  Oh, no.

• 43:41Martin Lewis?

  So the wonderful GDPR Rosie has been my researcher for the last year. And the way we work it, the way that we do it is it is a year-long attachment to be a researcher with me. Someone comes off their normal job and they go on, they spend a year and it's a brilliant way to sort of help someone progress in their career and give them a wider range of experience that comes on. And Rosie, who has been amazing, her year will be up at the end of September. Now, I'm talking about this now because we're taking a break and you're going to have some best bits podcasts for the next few weeks rather than some live podcasts. When we come back, Rosie will still be here, but also here, and she is here today in the studio with me. Well, Rosie isn't in the studio with me, is Isabel. Give me a nod hello Isabel, because you can't speak because we have to have that decision.

• 44:25Martin Lewis?

  Isabel is nodding hello at all the listeners. Isabel will eventually, by the end of September, be taking over and Isabel will be coming on board and Rosie will be going back to her old job, having done a wonderful and brilliant year. And I'm very, very grateful to everything Rosie has done. So that's the news.

• 44:41Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 44:42Martin Lewis?

  Is that a shock?

• 44:43Speaker 04

  It's a shock. It's a shock. I knew Rosie did tell me. However, you know, Rosie is an integral part of the podcast.

• 44:49Martin Lewis?

  And always will be.

• 44:50Speaker 04

  And always will be.

• 44:51Martin Lewis?

  Belong to the Question Time podcast, but we are going to welcome Isabel as well.

• 44:55Speaker 04

  With open arms.

• 44:55Martin Lewis?

  With open arms. Well, I'm not sure. That's like

• 44:59Speaker 04

  Open ears.

• 44:59Martin Lewis?

  Open ears is far better. Yes. Yeah. When you're someone's boss, you can't do open arms. It doesn't work like that in the modern age. We're not going to go there. And so that is, that's the news. And yes, to finish with that, thank you so much to all of our esquires. Thank you to everybody who's got a badge. And if you come on live, you question, you get a badge. And thank you for everybody who's listening. There are going to be some best bits. Matt, you're in charge of the best bits. Have you worked out what the best bits are yet?

• 45:22Speaker 04

  Yes, we've got a plan.

• 45:23Martin Lewis?

  Are they basically all you?

• 45:24Speaker 04

  It's all me. It's just my voice.

• 45:26Martin Lewis?

  Okay. So basically some Matt-only Question Time podcast.

• 45:29Speaker 04

  No, there's some

• 45:29Martin Lewis?

  They're just the questions, no answers. And then we'll be back full on in September. Thanks for listening, everyone. We really appreciate it.

• 45:39Martin Lewis?

  That's it for this week's Question Time. Don't forget to subscribe so you know when we release a new episode. And also do make sure you send in your questions if you've got them. You can email [email protected]. Just address it to Dear Martin.

• 45:53Speaker 04

  Dear Matt?

• 45:54Martin Lewis?

  Dear Martin.

• 45:55Speaker 04

  Dear Matt.

• 45:56Martin Lewis?

  I do love that bit. And don't forget, if you come on the show, we'll send you an exclusive money can't buy, because frankly, there isn't a denomination small enough. Martin Lewis Podcast Question Time ESQ badge.

• 46:10Speaker 04

  Ooh.

• 46:11Martin Lewis?

  Who wouldn't want that? Woo.

• 46:28Speaker 06

  Martin Lewis is the founder of moneysavingexpert.com. But of course, other consumer and price comparison websites are available. You can get in touch with Martin's podcast production team by emailing [email protected]. The offers and rates mentioned in the podcast are correct at the time of recording. However, if you are listening on demand, it's worth double checking as details can date. Remember to subscribe on BBC Sounds and leave us a review however you listen.

• 47:01Speaker 04

  Martin, I forgot to say.

• 47:02Martin Lewis?

  What?

• 47:02Speaker 04

  We've had a badge theft.

• 47:03Martin Lewis?

  What?

• 47:04Speaker 04

  I sent one out to one of our callers and I got an email with a picture and the package had been opened and its contents had been stolen.

• 47:18Martin Lewis?

  Hello, is that the Serious Crumbs office? We have to report the theft of a badge.

• 47:26Martin Lewis?

  Yes, an Esquire badge. What are you going to do about it?

• 47:30Martin Lewis?

  Oh, what? You think I'm taking this joke a little too far outside of the envelope?

• 47:33Speaker 04

  Wait.

• 47:35Martin Lewis?

  But it is actually very sad. Are we sending that person another badge?

• 47:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, I've sent another badge. Don't worry. But yeah, our first, our first badge theft. So someone has a badge who isn't an Esquire.

• 47:46Speaker 00

  Sometimes we all need an extra helping hand, especially with a tricky business problem you've been putting off. Claude is the AI for just that. It's the collaborator that understands your entire workflow and thinks with you, not for you. And Claude isn't just for quick questions. Hand it a whole task like turning a folder of scattered notes into a report and it does the work and hands back something finished that you can open and edit. Claude can now draft a doc or deck right in front of you and Claude Design now lives right inside Claude. Describe the website or prototype you're picturing, attach your design system and it comes back in your own design language, ready to edit right on the canvas. It works with your files and the tools you already use, like Gmail and

• 48:30Speaker 00

  Slack. And whether you're debugging code at midnight, building a financial model, or strategising your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. For problems worth solving, get started with Claude at claude.ai/solve. That's claude.ai/solve. And check out Claude Pro, which includes access to all of the features mentioned in today's episode. claude.ai/solve. This week on The Interface, millions of kids have grown up on camera with their childhoods turned into content. There's a new law in California that gives kinfluencers the right to be forgotten, and it could impact adults, too. And an attack on Russian data centre started a rumour that all the evil disinformation

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  bots had been deleted from the internet. But the truth might actually be a lot scarier. For our take, join me, Jess Maddox. And me, Thomas Germain, for The Interface. Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.