Jocko Underground: Value In Getting in a Street Fight and Losing? Dating Girls and Emotions. Guns For Home Defense.

Is There Value In Getting in a Street Fight and Losing? Guns for home defense. Dating and Emotions. Krill oil. Joining the military vs College first? Toxic leaders who poison morale and attitudes. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 32, sitting here with Echo Charles. Echo Charles, we've got a topic for today to kick things off a little bit, maybe a universal topic, true or false, and we might go deeper than just true or false, because I think this is true and false and false and true.

• 0:24Jocko Willink?

  Everyone should know what it feels like to be in a physical altercation and have their ass kicked, true or false? Where you at?

• 0:35Speaker 01

  Well, I think I'm with you, there is no, it depends, and it depends on what you mean by ass kicked.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  It depends, and at the end of the day, I think there's a lot of benefit to having that happen, and a lot of benefit to not having that happen.

• 0:53Jocko Willink?

  So, I am gonna lean towards the benefits of having it happen, and I think one of the reasons that I'm there is, as you've heard me say many times, the most important quality for a leader or a person, because I gotta add that, this isn't just about leadership, this is a person. Most important characteristic or quality for a leader or a person to have is humility. And let's face it, getting your ass kicked is a very humbling thing in most cases. I suppose in some cases where you're, let's say you're way smaller, way weaker, or in

• 1:36Jocko Willink?

  a really disadvantageous position, and you get your ass kicked, that's sort of like, doesn't really count as humbling, in a way. In many cases, it doesn't count as humbling, because you just didn't stand a chance, and that's the way it is. As a matter of fact, if you're small, and you get your ass kicked by some big person, they can look like, it can be worse for them, in many cases.

• 1:59Jocko Willink?

  This was nice about Jeff Glover going in tournaments, and he'd be all skinny and small, and going against just monster dudes, and just tapping them out, Jeff Glover.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you can watch videos of that too, by the way, which is interesting.

• 2:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I was never the best person to introduce people to jiu-jitsu, because I'm too big, and they go, "You're just big." I remember, actually, I was rolling with a friend of mine named TJ, this was in 19, maybe 1998.

• 2:29Jocko Willink?

  Something like that. So I'm like a blue belt, but he's 145 pounds, right? And I had mats at my house. This is in Virginia Beach. I was like, yeah, come over. You wanna, and I would try and get everyone to train with me. I'd like the mailman would come. I'd be like, you have to do jujitsu before my house. It's like that with everybody. And so, you know, I said, hey, you should really do jujitsu. You know, come on. So we go upstairs. I got the mats upstairs and we roll and I and I also am a blue belt, so it's not, like, right now I would be super chill.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:01Jocko Willink?

  You know, I'd be like, oh, yeah, see, this is what's gonna happen. But then I kinda had a little bit more aggression, you know? So I was just tapping him out, tapping him out, tapping him. And he immediately, and he's not a wrestler or anything, he immediately started talking about weight classes. Like, I mean, obviously with your weight, you know? What are you talking about, dude? I just got you in a kimura. By the way, I saw a comment on YouTube about my pronunciation of kimura. What's the proper?

• 3:25Speaker 01

  Kimura.

• 3:26Jocko Willink?

  Kimura.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  Kimura.

• 3:28Jocko Willink?

  Kimura. Okay. So what am I messing up?

• 3:31Speaker 01

  The U. You say kimura.

• 3:34Jocko Willink?

  Oh, kimura.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  Kimura.

• 3:36Jocko Willink?

  Kimura.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:38Jocko Willink?

  Kimura. Man, don't you like my way a little bit better?

• 3:41Speaker 01

  Uh, well, better? No, I like that it's uniquely your way, so I say do what you did.

• 3:46Jocko Willink?

  I must have gotten it from Dean. Or maybe I got it from Fabio.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  I will almost guarantee you did not get it from Dean.

• 3:51Jocko Willink?

  What about from Fabio?

• 3:52Speaker 01

  Negative. No.

• 3:53Jocko Willink?

  So kimura. That's not, that's like harder to say.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  You, I don't think so. I think you added another linguistic element when you add the yu, yu, yu.

• 4:04Jocko Willink?

  Kimura.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Kimura. Yeah. Only you and Leif Babbin say it, and he got it from you.

• 4:10Jocko Willink?

  He definitely got it from me. I'm spreading bad word across the country. So, humbling. It's very humbling. I'm not the best person to introduce it, but if you watch Jeff Glover, he's tapping out monster guys. That's gotta be very humbling. So.

• 4:27Jocko Willink?

  I think it's a good thing in many cases to get your ass kicked. I have, you know, I say this about kids, little kids a lot. I say jiu-jitsu is really good for little kids, big kids, all kids. But what I say is, it is likely to prevent them from becoming bullied. And it's likely to prevent them from being a bully. Stops both, because when you get your ass kicked, you learn what that feels like. And most people, most people that aren't sociopaths go, hey, I don't want to make someone feel like that. Right? Because you realize how humiliating it is. Because we've talked about this before too. What's the line between humbling and humiliating?

• 5:10Jocko Willink?

  Right? I mean, we talked about that because Dean one day, I mean, many days, Dean's like humiliating me on the mats of justice. Beyond humble. Humble is like, oh, man, you know, that goes all over me today, dude. Yeah. That's man, you know, got to train more. Humiliating is like, maybe I don't want to do this sport.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  I hope nobody saw that.

• 5:30Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna get a gun. I'm gonna shoot Dean Lister in the knee. Let's see what you got now, homie. So, let's say this, let's try, I mean, if I tried to answer this for real, I would say everyone should train. Everyone should train jiu-jitsu. Everyone should occasionally put on the big gloves and do some kind of MMA type sparring. Because otherwise you think your guard is good to go and then someone starts dropping bombs on you. And that's not cool. And you realize, oh, jiu-jitsu is not quite what I thought it was because this guy's punching me in the face.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Interestingly, when I first started, that was the whole, well, I, when I started, I did it because I wanted to be an MMA fighter. So when we started training all no gi, it was like MMA training was essentially had actual MMA training was like half of the training. And then it wasn't until I found out there was like tournaments, like jiu-jitsu tournaments, like, oh, shoot, we can do just jiu-jitsu, whatever. Then it was, you know, my attention, but it was, my point is it was.

• 6:37Jocko Willink?

  Were you thinking that you were going to become an MMA fighter?

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the whole reason I joined. Oh, yeah. And I trained for like, probably like.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Probably like three years I was training all Jiu Jitsu and MMA. It was like comprehensive.

• 6:49Jocko Willink?

  That's before you met me.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  That was before we came here. Yes. Before we came to.

• 6:54Jocko Willink?

  We trained at City, we trained at Boxing Club. What? How many times? Like a small amount of times.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  I remember training with you at the boxing club one time, my first time.

• 7:02Jocko Willink?

  But, but very quickly thereafter, we moved here to Victory MMA.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was like 2001, eight, right?

• 7:08Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, 2007, we were training here, but it wasn't open yet, but we had mats up and we were all training.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So I did, probably I was training with like Googarty. Um, remember Tom Watson Kong? I'd like train with him and he, I think, I think he fought in the UFC, right? And then, um, yeah, like a lot of guys. Joel Tudor was there. It was, yeah, it was like, there was a lot, Akbar. It was like, I trained with him a lot. Yeah. So he was like.

• 7:35Jocko Willink?

  Sock bar.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  But the point is early, like when we started, there was a lot of that that went on punches. Like you know how to train with punches. I think Scott Catlin was in there too a lot of time. So, um, yeah, we knew.

• 7:50Jocko Willink?

  What was his, what was his, uh, fighting name? Scott Catlin or Caitlin. He had some good, I forget what his fighting name was. He had some nickname.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't know.

• 8:00Jocko Willink?

  I forget. It was one that I said, that's pretty good. Remember that fighter whose nickname was? Damn. I can't think of this name. It was really long. It was like five different words.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Wait, his nickname was?

• 8:16Jocko Willink?

  The nickname was.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  The longest nickname I can, I don't know.

• 8:25Jocko Willink?

  Black guy.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  He was on art?

• 8:26Jocko Willink?

  No, he's UFC. He was like UFC. He didn't have that many fights either. He didn't, his nickname didn't really hold up as well as you wanted it to.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Right. Got it. Nah, I remember. Uh, but, but as far as training with punches and knowing, you know, where, hey, your guard is not going to be as effective if you're going a little bit more full speed or more full contact or whatever. Um, that came through early development. So I think it's like more like I take it for granted. I think a lot of times that nowadays where Jiu Jitsu is so much more expanded. And so some people can go through Jiu Jitsu all the way up to, you know, a high level without that training at all. Um, I could see how, how they might be vulnerable just from a habitual standpoint, you know?

• 9:08Jocko Willink?

  You have the base ingrained.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:11Jocko Willink?

  Concepts in your brain.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. So when we in, oh, Greg McIntyre trained with a lot. Greg McIntyre punched me the hardest I've ever been punched and straight square in the face too, by the way. Uh, what do you mean?

• 9:21Jocko Willink?

  Like what was going on? What position?

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Uh, I was in, I, he was in my guard.

• 9:27Jocko Willink?

  What, what me? Okay, go ahead.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  And I separated and I went for double. You know, you separate guard and then flip over and go for a double. And right when I flipped over, he was like already based. And I remember he had white gloves on and but his, like he hit me right between like, you know, right between the eyes, like a cartoon, like boom.

• 9:46Jocko Willink?

  Was that the end of your MMA career? I was about to ask you, what was the end of the MMA career? But then I was like, oh, he's about to tell me what the end was.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  No, no, no, it just sort of faded out. Like I jump in, like, you know, how you're actually training for maybe you'll get a Pancreasian match or something like this. And then you don't, and then you're kind of training just here and there. And then you, I remember the last MMA thing that I remember was less training with Dean to help him for a fight. That's it. So it's like it becomes that, you know?

• 10:12Jocko Willink?

  I just remembered that guy's nickname, Show Enough The Master.

• 10:17Jocko Willink?

  That was the dude's nickname. It was like Fred Show Enough The Master Smith or something. I thought that was a pretty epic nickname.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Well, Show Enough The Master, that's from Bruce Leroy, right? What's that one? Last or the Last Dragon?

• 10:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So it's from, yeah, the amount of rounds I have fighting MMA is a lot.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  Right. So it's like habitual, you know?

• 10:40Jocko Willink?

  Cause the, all the sparring that we used to do back in the day.

• 10:46Jocko Willink?

  So back to this question, trying to bring it back. Um, I think everyone should do it. I guess, I guess my answer is true. Now, does this mean you should go out in the street and pick fights with big people that are gonna kill you or beat you? You know, unconscious? No, that's why we love jujitsu. That's why we love MMA. Because these things are humbling. You get these things without having to get in a legal situation, without having to get in a medical scenario. Right? So instead of this question being, should everyone know what it feels like to be in a physical altercation, have their ass kicked? It just should be, should everyone train jujitsu MMA? And the answer is yes. And I think we can settle it down like that. I think I just kind of solved our problem.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, in a way. And again, that's why I was like, it depends. And then, so the word should, right? Should. It's like, if you don't, you're kind of like not doing the right thing almost kind of thing. You should do this versus shouldn't do this. Maybe, yeah, if you change that more accurately, put it this way, is there immense value in getting your ass kicked? The answer is yes. I would say yes. Pretty much across the board, as long as you're not, you know, whatever.

• 11:52Jocko Willink?

  Right, right, right. But there's a difference between, ah, you know, I went on the mat with Dean, he tapped. I don't train jujitsu. I show up, this is the reality. I show up to train jujitsu or Jeff Higgs shows up at my house. I have a little tiny bit of training and he's been training for the last three years hard. He just got his purple belt. And he comes up and kicks my ass with jujitsu. He didn't hurt me. He didn't send me to the hospital, but he kicked my ass for sure.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:20Jocko Willink?

  I guess there's a line, right? What are we talking about here?

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:23Jocko Willink?

  Cause kicking someone's ass could be, this person's in the hospital. And it could be, oh, I tapped this guy out nine times, which is what Higgs did to me, or nine or 17 or something.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Jujitsu is a little bit different in training. Even in a competition jujitsu, because it's like, there's rules and there's a clear, like, it's 100% up to you when the fight can just stop. You can just tap out and be like, hey, and it's not really a real fight. Like you guys are, actually, I want to hurt this guy. I want to try to like beat this guy up, you know? Where if you get in a fight somewhere outside of training or whatever with somebody, somebody you don't know, or even if you know him, whatever. Yeah, he's like kinda trying to hurt you, you know, and that's a different experience. It's a whole different thing, really, because jujitsu kinda bleeds more into you just lost in the competition. Even in training, the element of competition that's in training, you just lost that competition, you know? It's there, it's, I don't think that's what he's talking about at all.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  I think they're two different things as far as experience goes. Like, if you experienced getting your ass kicked in jujitsu training in tournaments or whatever, that's not, not the same. Not the same at all, as far as what I think, anyway, what I think he said.

• 13:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, have you ever gotten your ass kicked in a street fight?

• 13:32Speaker 01

  Yes, sir. Uh, well, here's the thing, depends on what you mean by ass kicked. Where I lost, I, I've been in a street fight as a kid, teen. I didn't lose that one, but the, the one where I lost the fight, like dang, I got beat up. And I'm the one who kinda, I didn't start the fight, but I initiated the physical part of it. I got beat, um, but I didn't get like hurt or nothing, and he get knocked out.

• 13:56Jocko Willink?

  Did that impact your, your personality, your mentality a little bit? I got my ass kicked, I think it was in fifth grade. And, um, you know, fifth grade, how old are you in fifth grade?

• 14:07Speaker 01

  Ten.

• 14:08Jocko Willink?

  Ten? Ish. Really?

• 14:11Jocko Willink?

  Maybe it was sixth grade.

• 14:14Jocko Willink?

  Maybe it was sixth grade, but I think it was fifth grade. Anyways, I was talking shit. Do you know what I mean? And I was a shit talker, as you know.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 14:23Jocko Willink?

  Which, as you also know, and I was explaining to you earlier, I can't do that anymore. Like, I don't, it's not the right thing to do, right? It's not the right thing to do to ridicule people and make fun of them. In the SEAL teams, it's the only thing. That's what it is all day long, every day. But even in the SEAL teams, once I became an officer, once I was, you know, when you're in a platoon commander, you can't just verbally hammer someone because you have too much power and authority. Because you're the platoon commander, as a task, you can't do that stuff anymore, you can't. I'm not saying I never did, because sometimes I would be out of line.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 14:56Jocko Willink?

  But if you compare to that, when I was an E5 mafia guy in a SEAL platoon, bruh. I mean, the whole, it was, it's just ruthless savagery all the time, 24/7. And especially because then, when you're an E5 in a SEAL platoon, you're kinda the, you're the opposite power. It's the, it's a power inversion. So all power is kinda gained through that situation. The only power you have is what you can muster up with your mouth, right? Talking shit to people. So I was a little kid, and I was talking shit, and, uh... So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast.

• 15:37Jocko Willink?

  So if you want to continue to listen, go to JacoUnderground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is, free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us.

• 16:17Jocko Willink?

  And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's JacoUnderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.