How Shane Battier Learned to Lead, and Shut the F*** Up (PTFO Vault)

LeBron called him the smartest hooper alive. Coach K called him an alien. Obama called him for a Hall-of-Fame pickup game (and a historic BBQ). But two-time NBA champion Shane Battier has been measuring the immeasurable inflection points of his career all along — from growing up "mixed, tall and poor"; to puking at Duke, guarding Kobe and witnessing LeBron's GOAT-defining game; to failing at ESPN and building a cabinet of relationships… including his therapist. Pablo cracks open the brain of the legend known as Lego, to find out if he really is human after all. Plus: Patrennessy, Laptop magazine and karaoke. Lots of karaoke. (This episode originally aired June 5, 2025.) • Subscribe to Pablo Torre Finds Out on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@PabloTorreFindsOut/ for more greatest hits • Subscribe to Pablo's newsletter https://pablo.show/ for exclusive access, documents and invites Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Pablo Torre?

  Hello, it's me, Pablo. So we've done, doing the math, 327 episodes of Pablo Torre Finds Out since we launched in September 2023. And it is the end of 2025, and I could not be prouder of our tiny, little, and extremely overworked newsroom that has created this bizarre sports news magazine show that is television, but also, obviously, an audio-first podcast. Because we've punched above our weight, I think, especially this year. But the stuff that we did before, the previous, you know, hundreds of episodes, we have some favorites that we are now concerned that you maybe have not heard yet,

• 0:46Pablo Torre?

  or maybe don't realize are even better when you listen to it a second time. And so during the holiday break, we're bringing you our favorites from the PTFO Vault. And we also have a newsletter, by the way, www.pablo.show, where I'll be doing some stuff over the holiday break especially. Please subscribe and support our approach to independent sports journalism. But most of all, thank you. Thank you for making this show not just a weird experiment, but a community of people who support the kind of mission that we're on, to hold to account extraordinarily rich and powerful people while also taste-testing, you know, athlete-branded weed. We contain multitudes, as does our vault. Please enjoy.

• 1:28Pablo Torre?

  Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

• 1:47Pablo Torre?

  Right after this ad.

• 1:52Speaker 01

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• 2:53Pablo Torre?

  This episode is brought to you by Apollo.io. A lot of the stories on this show start the same way. Something that looks pretty simple turns out to be a mess once you look under the hood. Well, it's no different in the sales world. Your team has a tool for finding prospects, a different tool for reaching out to them, and a third for keeping track of it all. On paper, that's a system. In practice, it's a salesperson spending the better part of the day copying names from one tab into another and not much of it actually selling. Apollo.io is a platform that helps sales teams find the right buyers and reach out to them. It brings prospecting, outreach, and follow-up into one place instead of several separate tools. It's used by sales teams of all sizes,

• 3:37Pablo Torre?

  from small businesses to larger organizations, and it's built for teams who want less manual busywork and more time with buyers. If your marketing and sales teams are trying to work from the same view of the customer, it's worth a look. Sign up for free at Apollo.io. That's Apollo.io.

• 4:03Pablo Torre?

  I love when a guest has a notebook.

• 4:07Pablo Torre?

  I do.

• 4:08Speaker 05

  I feel like such a boomer. I mean, I'm getting old. I'm 46 years old. I forget things. But if I write it down, I have notebooks upon notebooks of just maxims and quotes. If I put it in my phone, it's gone.

• 4:20Pablo Torre?

  You have the good kind of pen, too, by the way, that thin.

• 4:22Speaker 05

  Oh, the Muji pen.

• 4:24Pablo Torre?

  The Muji pen. That's right. That's veteran savvy.

• 4:27Speaker 05

  The finer things in life.

• 4:29Pablo Torre?

  But I wonder if you've used that Muji pen to write down at any point the quote I wanted to actually start with.

• 4:34Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 4:35Pablo Torre?

  Which is of course from Mike Krzyzewski, Coach K, head coach of your Duke Blue Devils, who said this, quote, "Shane was an alien. I wanted at the end of his career to crack his head open and see if he was really human," end quote.

• 4:52Speaker 05

  I think that's a compliment. Pablo, I was psycho. I was a psycho, a psychotic, neurotic person in my time at Duke.

• 5:17Speaker 05

  When Coach K recruited me, I was part of a very talented recruiting class, number one class in the country. Elton Brand, William Avery, right? Chris Burgess.

• 5:26Pablo Torre?

  I grew up watching you guys.

• 5:27Speaker 05

  Right? And we were going to a team that had, at the time, 10 McDonald's All-Americans. We had 10. 10, which is crazy. So you're saying like, why would you go to a team that has 10 McDonald's All-Americans? And Coach K, people always ask me, like, what's so great about Coach K? Coach K can peer into your soul and know what button to push.

• 5:47Speaker 06

  Finding the heart of the team is huge. I call it a spirit. He has a different spirit. Once we get him in our program, I have to give him some more latitude where he feels comfortable in instinctively following that spirit.

• 6:06Speaker 05

  And he knew this when I was in high school. So he came into my living room and he said, you know, "Hey Shane, I'm not going to promise you playing time. I'm not going to promise you shots. I'll promise you one thing, the opportunity to earn playing time every single day. And if you're good enough to play." So he had me hook, line and sinker. And I'm like, "I'm going to show you. I'm going to show you and I'm going to make you play me."

• 6:29Pablo Torre?

  You're gonna stab people's eyeballs with that fine ballpoint Muji pen?

• 6:33Speaker 05

  I would. I would've. I would've. I used to throw up before every game.

• 6:37Pablo Torre?

  Every game?

• 6:38Speaker 05

  Every game. My freshman year, I started, and literally, I'm going out to the jump ball circle. I'm so anxious, I want to play well so bad, I would run back to the bench, grab a Gatorade towel, throw up in it, throw it back out, and then they toss the ball.

• 6:55Pablo Torre?

  And just to be extra clear about this, Shane Battier barfing his ambitions into a towel before every game as a 6'8" Duke freshman was a thing that pretty much everybody who cared about him found intensely unsettling, I am told. And this was true of his college girlfriend, who is now his wife, and it was true of then-Duke assistant coach Quinn Snyder, who is now the head coach of the Atlanta Hawks. Although, there was one notable exception.

• 7:29Speaker 05

  I think Coach K loved it, because he's like, "It matters to him, he cares." But Quinn Snyder was like, "This is not healthy. You cannot do this." And so he literally would breathe with me.

• 7:39Pablo Torre?

  Breathe?

• 7:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, breathe. He's like, "Shane, breathe, breathe, breathe."

• 7:44Pablo Torre?

  But when it comes to barf, the first thing that I personally think about when I think about Shane, whose brain, by the way, not unlike Coach K, I also plan to just crack open here, is a different liquid. And it dates back to the first time that I ever met Shane, which was at a bar during the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference about maybe a decade ago, which would be around sometime after he played pickup with Barack Obama, which we'll discuss, and probably also around when he was just winning championships with LeBron James, who would call Shane, quote, "The number-one smartest basketball player and person I've been around," end quote.

• 8:30Pablo Torre?

  But that night, during that conference, Shane Battier introduced me to something else.

• 8:39Speaker 05

  It's a magical mixture of alcohol that was introduced to me by my teammate in Miami, Greg Oden, who learned this drink from Beast Mode himself, which is totally on-brand, and that drink is called Patronacy.

• 8:56Pablo Torre?

  And what I found out that night is that Patronacy is exactly what you think it is, and exactly what Marshawn Lynch apparently envisioned. Half Patron, half Hennessy. Which is why I also found out that drinking Patronacy made me feel like Shane Battier during his freshman year.

• 9:18Speaker 05

  And so, we were bonded from that moment on. I mean, you look at me, I look at you, and the first thought is Patronacy.

• 9:24Pablo Torre?

  And just to clarify here, by the way, I did not grow up dreaming of a bond with this man. As I said, I grew up watching Shane take charges, slap floors, become a champion at Duke, and the national player of the year, and a three-time defensive player of the year. But he went to Duke. And after the Memphis Grizzlies, the god-awful Memphis Grizzlies drafted Shane, sixth overall in 2001, I mostly forgot about him. I think most people did. But in 2009, no less than Michael Lewis wrote a seminal article about Shane Battier for the New York Times Magazine.

• 10:09Pablo Torre?

  And this article had an unforgettable headline: "The No-Stats All-Star." Because Shane, at this point, was a 30-year-old glue guy, a nerdy glue guy, grinding away for the Houston Rockets. And what Michael Lewis basically did was make the case for why this relatively minor character, who had this vomitously maniacal devotion to defense, to frustrating the most unstoppable scorers in the world, actually represented the modern evolution of sports culture writ large. Shane was analytical. He avoided taking two-point shots because of their inefficiency.

• 10:53Pablo Torre?

  And also.

• 10:55Speaker 05

  When the story first came out, I had mixed emotions. I'm not gonna lie.

• 10:59Pablo Torre?

  Well, you see the headline and it's like.

• 11:01Speaker 05

  It's, it's, it's the biggest like backhanded compliment you can get. It's, it's, you know, it's, it's Michael Lewis. So like, Michael.

• 11:07Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, Mr. Moneyball.

• 11:08Speaker 05

  That article has generated, you know, a lot of money for me over the years, you know, my speaking career and podcasts. He's so like, I, it was my opus and I would not be here without Michael. And so at the time, when you're, you know, I was still, what, probably eight years into my career. You know, I still thought I was a really good player and, and more than just like a glue guy. But now I love it. And now I love that that's my, that's my reputation. That was always authentically who I was, right? So like Lewis hit it right in the head. That's, that's how I was from kindergarten all the way to my last day in the NBA. So I'm very proud of that moniker. It's super nerdy, but I'm nerdy. So it's, it's all good.

• 11:50Pablo Torre?

  The embedded sort of premise of the no stats all-star is that in ways that cannot be actually quantified, but can be begun to be detected by the most advanced metrics. So it's really the advanced math all-star more than it is the no stats all-star.

• 12:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:09Pablo Torre?

  I wanna just quote the thing about you that Daryl Morey, who is now of course, president of the 76ers, a fellow PTFO guest, as is Michael Lewis. This is all very incestuous. I wanna just quote Daryl. Daryl says, quote, "I call him Lego. When he's on the court, all the pieces start to fit together and everything that leads to winning that you can get to through intellect instead of innate ability, Shane excels in. I'll bet he's in the 100th percentile of every category." So again, familiar compliment insult, sort of like layer cake. Instead of innate ability, you know?

• 12:43Pablo Torre?

  There was something that you were great at that was kind of ineffable. Give us the, the sort of like, the, the gallery of people that Shane Battier had to puke into his towel to sort of contemplate defending.

• 12:56Speaker 05

  A house of horrors. And the best thing that happened to me in my rookie year was I played two guard. So here I am out there. I'm guarding Iverson. I'm guarding Paul Pierce. I'm guarding Ray Allen. I'm guarding Kobe.

• 13:10Speaker 07

  The ball comes in. Kobe's got it. Above the three point line, taking a little bit of time. One dribble, pull up, for the win. He got it!

• 13:17Speaker 05

  And they kicked my ass my rookie year. But I learned, you know, I learned so much. I learned so much. I learned angles. I learned how to use my height. I learned how to be physical and that was the best instructor for me. And so, look, I, I took a great pride in, in catching all those guys. Carmelo.

• 13:35Speaker 07

  It's Carmelo against Battier. His defense has been a story. Battier's defense there is against Carmelo inside.

• 13:42Speaker 05

  KD.

• 13:43Speaker 07

  Drives on Battier, throws it down. Kevin Durant.

• 13:46Speaker 05

  You name it. I played against the, the greatest players of my generation and I miss that anxiety. All right. Guarding Kobe Bryant is fucking scary. I never will forget the feeling of getting on the bus at the Marina Del Rey Ritz. And it's like a 45 minute ride to Staples Center. And I'm just thinking to myself, shit, this guy's trying to embarrass me. Like I, I know, like, I know he's just like, he's lathered right now and he wants to score 80 points on me tonight. Like, and so like that anxiety was real, right? And so I call it productive paranoia. Instead of being like paralyzing, I use that to be like, man, I better know everything about Kobe that, that there is to know about him. And so that, like, that, like,

• 14:26Speaker 05

  I, I tried to learn and threw myself into the data analytics and, and just learn Kobe better than Kobe knew himself.

• 14:32Speaker 08

  Body on Kobe Bryant, following the game plan, the strategy, contesting every shot, not giving him a wide open look. Fighting through screens. You talk about when he goes up, you go up as a defender. Doing an outstanding job of not surrendering an inch. Shane Battier says, hey, I stay the course.

• 14:50Speaker 05

  And. It allowed me to stay in the game and I understood, okay, I'm not gonna stop these guys, but I can be a human yellow light and slow them down a little bit. And that was my only goal, just be the human yellow light.

• 15:24Pablo Torre?

  The whole thing of like, I'm gonna slow you down, but I know I'm not gonna stop you.

• 15:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:29Pablo Torre?

  Right? When it came to why these guys, as much as they would talk about how, you know, we're not afraid of Shane Battier.

• 15:36Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:37Speaker 09

  Does it feel different facing this team with Battier gone? You guys had a lot of classic matchups throughout the years.

• 15:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess, I guess.

• 15:47Pablo Torre?

  The stats actually indicate like, yo, you slowed down.

• 15:52Speaker 05

  I wasn't bad.

• 15:53Pablo Torre?

  You slowed down at the yellow light.

• 15:54Speaker 05

  As it turned out, it turned out it wasn't half bad.

• 15:57Pablo Torre?

  Is there an element of this that is teachable?

• 16:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, cuz I, I had the answer to the test before I took it. Like, in the NBA, everyone overestimates how good of a 20-foot jump shooter they are. A 20-foot jump shot is a really hard shot to shoot, especially if you dribble once. It's like a 40% shot. That's a tough shot. And people will argue with me, oh, no, it's part of the game. No, that is a hard shot for even the best player, unless your name is Steph Curry or Kevin Durant. All right, Devin Booker. And the one thing that, you know, I was able to do that a lot of people can't do, I detached myself from the outcome. I didn't, I didn't care. I didn't care if a guy made a shot or not. I really didn't.

• 16:39Speaker 05

  I cared where they took that shot. And I knew if they took the shot in the wrong area, in the area where they, they struggled the most, given enough time, sample size, they would beat themselves. And so I just had to like, sort of lead them to that, that conclusion. And so you can teach somebody kind of the squares in the court where it's just hard to make a shot.

• 17:02Speaker 08

  A two over Battier. Rebound by Bynum. Relentless pressure. He's gonna put that on you every single possession. And you know what? You gotta give Shane Battier a lot of credit, wouldn't you?

• 17:12Pablo Torre?

  When you look back at how you got to be this way, that's the part where I'm like, I don't know if you can really teach that.

• 17:19Speaker 05

  Look, I grew up in a middle-class part of Detroit. All right, I was very poor. You know, the roof leaked when it rained. I remember what a government cheese sandwich tasted like. I had patches on my jeans and all my clothes. Like, we had, like, no money. You know, I learned the phrase, "Rob Peter to pay Paul", like, when I was in kindergarten, right? We were very, very poor. I was the only kid in town that had a black dad and a white mom. So in an elementary school of 500 kids, I was the only black kid. Okay, I got a pick on pitcher day when I was got a comb. Okay, and Martin Luther King Day, I was expected to know everything about black culture from the dawn of civilization. And I was a foot taller than everybody else, okay? So I was the kid who had always had to carry a birth certificate with him at the Little League game. So like, I was an outcast wherever I went. So I was mixed, tall, and poor.

• 18:06Speaker 05

  The only place I really felt at home was at recess. And playing kickball, and playing dodgeball, and playing basketball, and baseball, all the sports. And I realized, like, when I helped my friends win, like, I'm not, I'm no longer the poor kid, the mixed kid, the tall kid, all right? I'm just a kid who helped my friends win. So I didn't, I didn't care, like, about what I did or how I looked. All I cared about is, did we win? And did I help my friends win? So I'm gonna, I'm gonna do whatever it takes. Do whatever it takes to make sure my friends look good and that we win. I took that lesson from kindergarten. So it was born out of desperation. It was born out of just, hey, I wanna be loved, I wanna be accepted.

• 18:48Speaker 05

  And it's, it's, that's what put the dog in me to, to just be just intense and paranoid and all those things.

• 19:00Pablo Torre?

  I find that a big learning that people hopefully have had about the nerd as a creature in American life is that the nerd can be among the most competitive people that you've ever imagined.

• 19:15Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:15Pablo Torre?

  The guy who, and again, and this is me fact-checking as a journalist, the guy who had a subscription to Laptop Magazine?

• 19:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm a gadget whore. But, you know.

• 19:29Pablo Torre?

  There was a magazine called Laptop Magazine? I mean, this is just depths that I, I'm obviously somebody who is, this is a judgment-free zone, but I didn't know there was a laptop magazine.

• 19:40Speaker 05

  We share an insatiable curiosity.

• 19:45Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 19:45Speaker 05

  And now, that, like, knowing your story. That was my secret power. I was so scared that there, the answer is out there, I just haven't found it yet.

• 19:55Pablo Torre?

  Hmm.

• 19:55Speaker 05

  And so, yeah, I subscribed to Laptop Magazine because they had all these new gadgets come out and I said, oh shit, like, maybe this could be the answer to like, to change my life. Right? Again, that was my superpower in the NBA. Like, I don't know how to guard Kobe Bryant. Like, well, maybe if I, if I learn this about him, like, it'll help me.

• 20:10Pablo Torre?

  No, but the whole idea of like, winning over a room. Right? Which is embedded in the premise of culture, which is to say that like, it needs buy-in.

• 20:18Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 20:19Pablo Torre?

  You need to convert people to the thing that you revere.

• 20:22Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 20:23Pablo Torre?

  How hard was that, uh, for you in these locker rooms?

• 20:28Speaker 05

  When I go to the Grizzlies, they had the lowest winning percentage of the four North American professional sports leagues. Okay? They had a 20 winning percentage.

• 20:38Pablo Torre?

  That's a good stat.

• 20:38Speaker 05

  They won one out of every five games in the, the history of their, for their franchise. Okay? So you talk about a franchise that had like, no idea how to win. This is the Grizzlies. So, we lose our first 10 games, you know, we're on a bad team. I think we're like, 2 and 15.

• 20:54Speaker 10

  Their style has not been good. They have stumbled along the way. They have not had their productivity out of their scores. They have been passive at the point. And they've lost 11 in a row. A lot of work to be done here in Memphis.

• 21:11Speaker 05

  We call like, the, the most overhyped, overused term in pro sports, the players-only locker room meeting.

• 21:17Pablo Torre?

  Oh god.

• 21:18Speaker 05

  It's the worst.

• 21:19Pablo Torre?

  I want to, I've, I've, I've been fascinated by this ritual. Okay, so explain, for those not familiar with why this is a thing, please explain the thing.

• 21:32Speaker 05

  So a players only meeting only happens when you're, you know, you're getting heat from the media, the fans are on you. All right, look, you know, you're not playing well. Okay. So, you know, all the movies, you know, say, you know, you know, the captains, the veterans, they call a players only meeting, we're going to air our grievances and we're going to have a kumbaya moment and that's going to propel us to, to, to better performance. Okay. And so during this particular locker room meeting, you know, here I am, you know, full of righteousness coming from Duke, the coach K. Way.

• 22:03Pablo Torre?

  Yep.

• 22:04Speaker 05

  And I'm the first one to stand up and I say, you know, I gotta be honest, the veteran leadership on this team sucks. Very honest, very direct. And they said, hey, Duke boy, shut the up, go sit in the corner. Who are you? And I was just like, oh man, I did not read the room. It humbled me and I realized like, man, I can't come in here guns blazing because there's, there's kind of like an ethos and a creed and a kind of unspoken locker room path you gotta take to earn credibility. And I hadn't done that to that point. And so I shut my ass, I went to work, right? But I didn't, I didn't become cynical. I

• 22:46Speaker 05

  didn't become jaded. I wouldn't allow that locker room to change me. So I kept working and a funny thing happened, like the guys who maybe were on the fence and didn't know how to, how to act and how to win, started to have like, like winning attitudes and like winning behaviors. And all of a sudden, like you kind of feel the, the locker room kind of, kind of shift a little bit and we started to believe a little bit. And Hoobie Brown comes in the next year, we start winning some games.

• 23:13Speaker 11

  Memphis now 26 and 31 since that 0 for 13 start. The team that was once an easy out now holds the key in the Western Conference playoff race.

• 23:22Speaker 05

  It was pretty awesome to be part of. I'd never been part of like a culture change.

• 23:25Pablo Torre?

  Yeah. But this is a mythical concept of like, how do you change culture? The thing that every business is going to have to grapple with at some point if they meet what is more likely than not, which is failure.

• 23:39Speaker 05

  Yep. It's not the rah rah speeches. All right. It's not the, the sayings on the wall. It's, it's the small subtle acts that most people don't even pay mind to. It's, it's the unmeasurable. It's the unmeasurable.

• 24:00Pablo Torre?

  Which is all to say that there are these inflection points in Shane Battier's life when he has had to decide whether it is time for him to take the microphone or not. And this can be a difficult political exercise for somebody who loves karaoke as much as Shane Battier does, as we need to explain in a bit.

• 24:26Pablo Torre?

  But this takes us to a moment, for now, on the court, when the human yellow light wasn't actually trying to slow down a superstar. Because it was June 2012, and Shane was playing for the Miami Heat, and the Miami Heat, for those not familiar, fetishize culture more than any other team in sports, as our own Ryan Cortez will gladly tell you, and it's to the point where the Heat would go on to later hire Shane as an executive. But on this June evening in 2012, what Shane Battier was mostly trying to do was just not get in the way of one of his fellow starters.

• 25:06Pablo Torre?

  The issue, however, was that LeBron James, one of the best scorers ever, obviously, who was now being given the greenest possible light, had won zero titles at this point. Speaking of measurables, LeBron had joined Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami, only to be humiliated by Dallas in the finals the year before this. And so here the Heat were, in 2012, overhyped and trailing in one of the most tense Eastern Conference Finals in memory, and they were about to be eliminated by their most hated rival.

• 25:54Speaker 05

  They're saying, "Look, there's no way the Heat are gonna win this game."

• 25:59Speaker 12

  Boston with a three to two edge and a chance to move on.

• 26:06Pablo Torre?

  David slaying Goliath.

• 26:07Speaker 05

  Yes. We know if we lose game six, this is like maybe the most failed experiment.

• 26:13Pablo Torre?

  Absolutely.

• 26:15Speaker 05

  Highly publicized failed experiment and there's blood on everybody's hands.

• 26:18Pablo Torre?

  Yeah. And by the way, there's just salivating from everybody who talks about sports. Because you guys are villains. You guys are Goliath. Again, that's the other key part of this is that it's what does Goliath do to save his own ass?

• 26:30Speaker 05

  They drove the hearse to TD Bank Arena that night. But like, before that game, there wasn't like a huge rah rah speech. It was just like, look, we've got to be ourselves. We've been through the fire and there was a trust.

• 26:43Pablo Torre?

  What was LeBron like? Because this is now, in terms of his character study.

• 26:49Speaker 05

  The LeBron game.

• 26:50Pablo Torre?

  Yes. And also like, had it done it. Exactly.

• 26:54Speaker 05

  That was the inflection point for his entire Hall of Fame career.

• 26:58Pablo Torre?

  The story of his life is so different if that game goes differently.

• 27:02Speaker 05

  Different. No one realizes that. And so like, of anybody, LeBron knows like, he has the most at stake.

• 27:09Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 27:10Speaker 05

  The most.

• 27:10Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 27:11Speaker 05

  The most. And so like, he was very calm that day. He didn't say.

• 27:17Pablo Torre?

  He didn't puke into a towel?

• 27:18Speaker 05

  No, no. But like, let me tell you what, when that motherfucker has that look, man, let's go. It's like when Adam turns into He-Man.

• 27:34Speaker 05

  There's almost like an aura around him. We're just like, oh my gosh, this is unbelievable.

• 27:47Pablo Torre?

  I remember watching this game.

• 27:49Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 27:50Pablo Torre?

  And imagining what must it be like to be around him in this moment?

• 27:55Speaker 05

  You didn't talk about it. You didn't look at him. You're just like, I don't want to jinx it.

• 28:03Speaker 11

  Thirty in the first half. These are all second half. The one foot step back and then the little floater as he posts up Rondo at the elbow and then the 17 foot catch. That jab step, jump shot game.

• 28:18Speaker 05

  And so we win the game and

• 28:20Pablo Torre?

  You win big.

• 28:21Speaker 05

  We win big.

• 28:21Pablo Torre?

  By the way, like curb stomping suffocation.

• 28:25Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 28:25Pablo Torre?

  Big.

• 28:26Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 28:26Pablo Torre?

  Cause the final score is 98 to 79.

• 28:29Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 28:30Pablo Torre?

  LeBron, for the record, right?

• 28:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:32Pablo Torre?

  Do you remember his stat line?

• 28:33Speaker 05

  Cause Forty-five.

• 28:35Pablo Torre?

  Forty-five minutes, 45 points, 19 of 26.

• 28:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:39Pablo Torre?

  19 of 26.

• 28:40Speaker 05

  Ridiculous.

• 28:42Pablo Torre?

  Also, by the way, 15 rebounds, throwing five assists.

• 28:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:45Pablo Torre?

  Casually.

• 28:46Speaker 05

  I mean, it's the greatest game I've ever seen anybody play.

• 28:49Pablo Torre?

  It's a hard argument to beat.

• 28:51Speaker 05

  It was, given the stakes, given the gravity of the situation, given like the, the, the historical implications, historical.

• 28:58Pablo Torre?

  We're going to be arguing Jordan versus LeBron forever. And this game is the reason why it's plausible.

• 29:06Speaker 05

  I'm, I'm always going with LeBron for a simple reason, for a simple reason.

• 29:10Pablo Torre?

  Is it because you scored eight points that game?

• 29:14Speaker 05

  LeBron did something twice that Jordan I don't think could have done once. He won two NBA titles with Shane Battier as a starting power forward. No way, no way Jordan, no way Jordan could have done that. As great as Jordan was, LeBron dragged me across the finish line.

• 29:28Pablo Torre?

  The albatross had never been so heavy.

• 29:30Speaker 05

  That is, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

• 29:40Pablo Torre?

  This message is brought to you by Apple Card. With Apple Card, you earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases like groceries or merch or tickets to the game. Plus it can be used anywhere MasterCard is accepted. No matter your team, no matter where you shop, Apple Card is here to help you tackle game day. Apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank, USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.

• 30:13Speaker 13

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• 30:43Speaker 14

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet, like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone, and including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save, too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 31:22Pablo Torre?

  Now that we've gone through one of the glorious chapters, do you remember the most humiliated you ever felt in a league?

• 31:29Speaker 05

  My last year. My last year. When I was told, without being told, that our best chance of winning doesn't include you, Shane. When, you know, Spo started to sit me in the fourth quarter. Nothing was worse to me than sitting me in crunch time. Because that's, that was my identity. And it hurt me to my core, and that's when I knew I was done. I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed. And I checked out, and I was cynical. And so when I retired, I was very cynical. And so I was sad, but I was also very cynical.

• 32:04Pablo Torre?

  What does cynicism mean at this point in your trajectory?

• 32:08Speaker 05

  I shut people out. I was probably battling some depression.

• 32:13Speaker 05

  I didn't know what depression was. I never had this feeling before. But feeling very isolated, I didn't feel anyone understood what I was going through. I felt very alone and I pushed people away. I pushed my wife away, I pushed my kids away, and I just was a jerk. I wasn't like doing destructive things. It wasn't like I was drinking every night. But I was, I was just, I was emotionally unavailable. And I was hurt and I was pissed off. And I had all these emotions. I'd never associated with basketball. And it was a big mistake to go work for ESPN. I was really bad on TV. You could probably go on Awful Announcing and say.

• 32:50Pablo Torre?

  We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna find some Shane Battier.

• 32:53Speaker 05

  I was.

• 32:53Pablo Torre?

  Lowlights here.

• 32:54Speaker 05

  I had, I had zero passion for it. Zero. Congratulations. Your father was a great point guard for the Russian national team. What has he meant to your career?

• 33:02Speaker 15

  Oh, I think now he watched, he watched this, he watched Raft. Like a lot of emotion he have, so same like me.

• 33:11Speaker 05

  Well, that's great.

• 33:13Pablo Torre?

  But at this point in our episode.

• 33:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:15Pablo Torre?

  Everybody listening understands how insane that is.

• 33:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 33:18Pablo Torre?

  That you, guy they've been listening to, tell stories with this level of alacrity.

• 33:22Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 33:23Pablo Torre?

  Couldn't do that.

• 33:25Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 33:25Pablo Torre?

  Because of this internal, was it, was it, was this the hearse? Was this finally you being like, I guess I gotta get in this thing now?

• 33:37Speaker 05

  I, I was chasing relevance. When you, when you retire, like you don't know. This is, this is all I knew. It's all I knew. Thirty years, right? I had purpose every day. I had the scoreboard above me and told me where I was, alright? I love my teammates. I love being part of a team, right? The money was great, you know? I, I had status. I had all these things that like, like people are chasing these things in their professional life. I had, I checked every box. So to not have that, when you wake up one day, because you don't have the jersey, you don't have the locker room, you don't have the purpose, scary as shit.

• 34:13Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 34:13Speaker 05

  I was, I was terrified. I was terrified.

• 34:16Pablo Torre?

  There's one quote that I remember you giving at one point, and it was, if you had filet mignon every single night, you'd stop tasting it.

• 34:25Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 34:26Pablo Torre?

  Which is to say that even though you missed so actively the thing that you weren't doing anymore.

• 34:31Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 34:32Pablo Torre?

  It felt like by the end, also, you're.

• 34:36Pablo Torre?

  Your ability to enjoy it.

• 34:38Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 34:38Pablo Torre?

  Was also changing, which is an interesting tension of like missing something that wasn't even the thing that for you it it was anymore.

• 34:48Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, it's weird. It's a weird feeling. It was a weird. It was a weird time. I went through a lot of who am I? Who am I? My identity was so tied to basketball. It was tied to the No Stat All-Star stuff.

• 35:00Pablo Torre?

  Right.

• 35:01Speaker 05

  Right? So like I, in a lot of ways, I felt like I was an actor in my own life. That I had only take, like, I couldn't turn it over. I couldn't take two point shots.

• 35:09Pablo Torre?

  Oh, God.

• 35:10Speaker 05

  Cause I talked about it. No, literally. So I

• 35:11Pablo Torre?

  Oh, I get it.

• 35:12Speaker 05

  So I felt like, almost like I was playing this role of this guy. And we talk about authenticity and I played it to the best of my ability. But I questioned like, who the heck am I? What am I about? Like, what am I doing? What am I doing? And, you know, going to ESPN and being terrible at it and that disaster of a year didn't help. And so, you know, I'd never been to therapy. My, my wife, you know, of 22 years, when we met in seventh grade, said, look, Shannon, I know you like optionality. Here's three options. You can, you know, here's the number to the Marriott. Here's the number to your attorney. And here's this number to this life coach slash psychologist that comes very highly recommended.

• 35:55Speaker 05

  I said, Heidi, I'm a very smart man. I'm gonna choose door three. And so I had to unpack a lot of crap that I just didn't deal with because I was so driven. I was, I was throwing, I was too busy throwing up. I was too busy grinding and, and just like pursuing whatever it was in the basketball career that I did not give time to and like not healthy at all. You know, I was not stable.

• 36:19Pablo Torre?

  Well, this is the other thing about like having a superpower in any way.

• 36:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 36:23Pablo Torre?

  Right? Is that there is an implication that, man, look at this gift, but The more I learn about sports, the more I realize that extremity in any fashion also implies a certain imbalance if you're not extraordinarily careful.

• 36:36Speaker 05

  A hundred percent. And I don't, would I do things differently? I don't know. That's the thing. I know it wasn't healthy. But like, I never had a sports psychologist when I played because I was so scared of anyone getting inside this and taking away my superpower.

• 36:52Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 36:52Speaker 05

  Which was like my IQ and my ability to read and react. I'm like, I don't, I don't need to be thinking. I don't need to be emotive here. I just need to be like a great defender and make open shots and like,

• 37:04Pablo Torre?

  Right.

• 37:04Speaker 05

  I'll deal with it later.

• 37:05Pablo Torre?

  The metric, the standard of success is not a health, it is, are we winning?

• 37:09Speaker 05

  Are we winning? Am I still here? And so I don't know what I would have done differently.

• 37:14Pablo Torre?

  Did you get a sense that when you went to therapy, that your psychologist was like, I know exactly the type of person you are? Or were they saying something that was?

• 37:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't think I was out of the ordinary for a retired athlete. I think every athlete goes through some version of this, some form or fashion. And the longer you're in the game, the more work you gotta do, right? And I describe it as, and I think this follows any, any person of success, right? But especially young people, you know, entertainers or people who win the first third of their life, right? When you're identified as a young talent, or even an old talent, you know, you're told you're great, you know? And if you show any vulnerability, guess what? We're gonna take your dream and give it to that person because they don't show any weakness. So what do you do? You start building walls. You always have the answer, alright? You can't feel anything, you're bulletproof, right?

• 38:10Speaker 05

  So emotionally, psychologically, financially, sexually, like, I got all the answers. I don't need any help. Give me, give me space.

• 38:18Pablo Torre?

  Just give me a laptop, magazine, and some space.

• 38:21Speaker 05

  I'll figure it out. And it's all good till it ain't, right? When you don't have that purpose, and you don't have that support system of the locker room, and you're like, who the hell am I? Well, I've been doing it solo for so long. That I don't know how to ask for help. I don't know how to, you know, so like, and what you realize is it's all relationships, it's all relationships and it's being authentic in your relationships and fostering those things. So like, that's what I would have done. I would have done a better job of fostering, um, relationships and allowing people who I care about to help me along the way.

• 38:59Pablo Torre?

  When you talk about basically having these relationships, building a cabinet of people around you.

• 39:04Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 39:04Pablo Torre?

  I think about how you are also one of the very special lucky people to have played basketball with a man who had his own cabinet.

• 39:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 39:15Pablo Torre?

  What was playing basketball against Barack Obama like?

• 39:19Speaker 05

  I was actually on his team. And so first of all, to get the, to get the call to go to the president's birthday.

• 39:24Pablo Torre?

  What's that call like?

• 39:26Speaker 05

  Unexpected, unexpected, a call out of the blue. Hey, what are you doing this day? The president has requested you to play in his birthday pickup game.

• 39:35Pablo Torre?

  He's turning 49.

• 39:36Speaker 05

  Turning 49 and like it was, you know, Kobe was hurt by, by them, but it was Carmelo, Magic Johnson. I mean, it was like Alonzo Mourning, LeBron, D Wade, Chris, like all, like Hall of Famers. And so like.

• 39:48Pablo Torre?

  Stuff a kid would do who loved basketball and had the power to invite everybody.

• 39:53Speaker 05

  Yeah. And here I am, some schlep. The coolest part was like getting in the, the SUV.

• 39:58Pablo Torre?

  Why were you invited?

• 39:59Speaker 05

  I don't know. I don't know. I don't, I still to this day, I don't know. I don't know. They're trying to, you know, bring some, I don't know, IQ to the, the game. I don't know. But I got to play on his team. And, uh, you know, the defensive driving like Navy SEALs who drove us to the gym. That was badass. That was the coolest part. I mean, those guys were bobbing and weaving. Um, but we lose the first two games and, uh, you know, uh, President Obama says, guys, bring it in. As your commander in chief, I command you to not lose this last game.

• 40:33Pablo Torre?

  Were there hard fouls? Were there?

• 40:35Speaker 05

  There are no hard fouls, but there was definitely like, they were blocking his shots. And I, I think, I think, you know, the president appreciated that. He's, you know, he didn't want charity. That was part of it. He said that. He's like, I don't want charity. All right. I want, I want everyone to play. We're here to win. All right. So he got a taste, he got a taste. And he hit the game when he shot, you know.

• 40:56Pablo Torre?

  He did?

• 40:57Speaker 05

  He hit the game when he shot. He's like this, like, like this squirrely left hander.

• 41:01Pablo Torre?

  Oh, I've seen the footage.

• 41:02Speaker 05

  You know, it's weird, but it goes in, it goes in and he hit the shot and he's walking around holding that, holding that thing up high. So it was an unbelievable day. The coolest, the funniest part was, we're on the South Lawn having a barbecue, birthday barbecue afterwards. And, you know, they got some hip hop playing, whatever. And all of a sudden, "Pony" by Genuine comes on.

• 41:26Speaker 05

  And I'm just thinking to myself, you know, our forefathers are, are just rolling in their graves right now, that Genuine's pony.

• 41:35Pablo Torre?

  Oh my god.

• 41:36Speaker 05

  Is playing on the South Lawn. First time, first time ever that song.

• 41:41Pablo Torre?

  Somewhere, somewhere the ghost of.

• 41:45Speaker 05

  Teddy Roosevelt.

• 41:45Pablo Torre?

  I was gonna say, yeah, Teddy Roosevelt, Andrew Jackson, better yet.

• 41:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, I just can't believe it.

• 41:52Pablo Torre?

  Ride it, my pony. My saddle's waiting. Come and jump on it. If you're horny, let's do it. Ride it, my pony.

• 41:59Speaker 05

  How great's that?

• 42:00Pablo Torre?

  I mean, that's the American dream.

• 42:01Speaker 05

  That is, it is the American dream. And my wife and I look at each other like, this is unlike, no one understands how wonderful this moment is. It's what we've worked all these years for.

• 42:14Pablo Torre?

  Exactly. When you were summoned to the front of the class to explain black history to everybody in Michigan.

• 42:20Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 42:21Pablo Torre?

  You did not have the audacity to depict this image.

• 42:24Speaker 05

  One day, I dream of barbecue on the South Lawn. And we will play pony. And we will all be merry.

• 42:49Speaker 04

  My old phone. And I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody, listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for Watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Welcome to 215 Maple Drive. We just put this property on the market.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  Love the crown molding.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  Oh, wait until you see the walk-in closets and the bathroom tile.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  Does it have Verizon FiOS? You know, 100% fiber internet.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  No FiOS, but it looks like it's got cable. Let's check out the kitchen.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  No FiOS? Yeah, no, thank you.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  Don't you want to see the rest? Okay, bye-bye.

• 43:39Speaker 03

  Get Verizon FiOS, because when you're moving, it's 100% or nothing.

• 43:43Speaker 14

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save, too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 44:22Pablo Torre?

  Part of what is so interesting about hearing you trace your path through life is that, at various points, you have lived a movie that I find to be endlessly amusing. And one of the scenes that recurs is just you doing karaoke.

• 44:43Speaker 05

  First of all, who are you telling? Who are you telling? I mean, you know, when I look at my journals and write a book now and it's just like I've...

• 44:52Pablo Torre?

  It's crazy that you've lived all of this already.

• 44:55Speaker 05

  It's Forrest Gumpian.

• 44:56Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 44:57Speaker 05

  It really is Forrest Gumpian.

• 44:58Pablo Torre?

  You both met the president.

• 44:59Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 45:00Pablo Torre?

  Uh, you both love running.

• 45:02Speaker 05

  So I toured China. So my karaoke story in China, uh, I wore a Chinese basketball shoe called Peak.

• 45:09Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 45:09Speaker 05

  Okay, because Yao Ming was my teammate in Houston and, uh, they wanted a presence on the Rockets. So I went there, I never heard of the shoe. And I had like 50 foot billboards in like every city you've never heard of in China. And so I was very, very famous in China, much more famous in China than I was in America. So whenever I go to a, uh, a press conference in the city when I'm touring, uh, there would be a bunch of reporters there and, uh, they gave me the name Mr. President because my cadence and the way I talk and gesture was like Barack Obama.

• 45:40Pablo Torre?

  I was gonna say, your sleeves are rolled up to your elbows? This is not a coincidence, it feels.

• 45:44Speaker 05

  I would be in, you know, Qingdao and, you know, the, the press would go, Mr. President, Mr. President, how do you find Qingdao? And I said, you know what? It has the most beautiful women and the best beer. And then I would go to, you know...

• 45:57Pablo Torre?

  What a politician.

• 45:58Speaker 05

  Then I'd go to Shanghai, Mr. President, Mr. President, how do you find Shanghai? It has the most beautiful women and the best beer, right? Uh, but they knew I love karaoke. And so I, I went to this beer, actually the Qingdao Beer Festival in Qingdao, uh, China, beautiful, you know, beautiful city on the, on the water. And they wanted me to sing karaoke. And so this is like a festival and I swear to you, there was like 20,000 people at this, at this festival. And they want me to sing Billie Jean. And I'm like, alright, no, no, no biggie, I'll do it. Well, I get up on stage and so I start singing, you know, uh, she was more like a movie queen from across the scene.

• 46:41Speaker 05

  And all of a sudden, the, the words just cut out. And so I have no monitor.

• 46:47Pablo Torre?

  Your prompter goes dead.

• 46:48Speaker 05

  My prompter goes dead.

• 46:49Pablo Torre?

  The ultimate politician's nightmare.

• 46:51Speaker 05

  And so I'm in front of 20,000 people playing Billie Jean. You know, fumbling my way through this song, trying to dance to take the, you know, the ice off my horrible, it was a nightmare. It was a nightmare of epic proportions to be in Qingdao, China, front of 20,000 people.

• 47:09Pablo Torre?

  At a beer festival.

• 47:10Speaker 05

  At a beer festival with no words, but they, they still cheered for me. I actually, people don't believe me. I hosted the Chinese version of SNL.

• 47:18Pablo Torre?

  What?

• 47:19Speaker 05

  It's called Happy Camp. They get like 100 million people. I can't make this up. They get 100 million people a week tuning in on Saturday night and I was the host. I don't speak a lick of Mandarin, like at all. But again, I had a translator there on TV and it's like, it's a comedy sketch show. And so they wanted me to come and sing karaoke. So I sang New York, New York. You know, I came out of the, you know, doing the kick, doing the Sinatra.

• 47:42Pablo Torre?

  And yet, is that as weird as the time that you did this?

• 47:50Speaker 16

  Shane, listen to me. Just stay retired. You can still be in the league as a team front office floor. You can have all you ever wanted. I know.

• 48:06Pablo Torre?

  So this is the voice of Daryl Morey?

• 48:09Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 48:09Speaker 16

  I don't want it. No. I can't want it anymore.

• 48:27Pablo Torre?

  So Daryl as the good witch and Shane as Elphaba, I suppose?

• 48:33Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 48:34Pablo Torre?

  In this rendition of?

• 48:35Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 48:50Pablo Torre?

  Oh, God.

• 49:24Pablo Torre?

  I mean, Daryl wearing a blonde wig and a dress and you, I mean, when I say that you sang your heart out with a broom in one hand.

• 49:38Speaker 05

  Daryl Morey is a very close friend of mine. I wouldn't be here without him, what I learned from him. And he actually wrote that.

• 49:45Pablo Torre?

  He loves musicals.

• 49:46Speaker 05

  He loved musicals. So he and Ellen, his wife, rewrote the words to that and had an idea. So that was all Daryl's idea. And, you know, I love that he put on the Pink Linda dress. So that's an event called Batty Oki that we held in Houston, held in Miami. It raises money for my foundation, the Batty A Take Charge Foundation, giving over $4 million in scholarships.

• 50:08Pablo Torre?

  Remarkable.

• 50:09Speaker 05

  The last decade. So it's for the kids.

• 50:11Pablo Torre?

  Daryl, on the one end, did you blackmail LeBron and D Wade to do Robin Thicke?

• 50:27Speaker 05

  That was their, that was their own volition. The Batty Oki, we don't mess around.

• 50:31Pablo Torre?

  I dare say that Mr. President has assembled a rainbow coalition of people to do the thing that you made peace with, which is humiliate yourself.

• 50:45Speaker 05

  For a good cause, you know, you can never humiliate yourself too, too much.

• 50:49Pablo Torre?

  That is also a thing that we hear Pablo Torre finds out that we believe in. Shane Battier, thank you for turning this podcast into a very happy camp.

• 51:02Speaker 05

  Pablo, you're my man. I can't wait to do Patrinasy with you.

• 51:05Pablo Torre?

  Oh, God.

• 51:06Speaker 05

  And I see you next time.

• 51:07Pablo Torre?

  Oh, God. I just felt, I just felt, I just felt the need for a towel.

• 51:22Pablo Torre?

  This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark Media production.

• 51:28Pablo Torre?

  And I'll talk to you next time.

• 51:49Speaker 04

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone. And I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody, listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  Welcome to 215 Maple Drive. We just put this property on the market.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Love the crown molding.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Oh, wait until you see the walk-in closets and the bathroom tile.

• 52:31Speaker 02

  Does it have Verizon FiOS? You know, 100% fiber internet.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  No FiOS, but it looks like it's got cable. Let's check out the kitchen.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  No FiOS? Yeah, no thank you.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  Don't you want to see the rest? Okay, bye-bye.

• 52:45Speaker 03

  Get Verizon FiOS, because when you're moving, it's 100% or nothing.

• 52:49Speaker 14

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save, too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage, HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.