#ICYMI - Hockey: Physics on Ice (Part 2)

Chuck Nice and Gary O’Reilly explore the slippery science and skate technology that leads to speed – and collisions – in the world’s fastest, toughest team sport. With physicist Alain Haché, Bauer Hockey’s Craig Desjardin, NY Riveters captain Ashley Johnston. Don’t miss an episode of Playing with Science. Subscribe on: iTunes Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/playing-with-science/id1198280360?mt=2 Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/startalk/playing-with-science TuneIn: http://tunein.com/radio/Playing-with-Science-p952100/ SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/startalk_playing-with-science GooglePlay Music: https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Iimke5bwpoh2nb25swchmw6kzjq NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free. Find out more at https://www.startalkradio.net/startalk-all-access/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:11Gary O'Reilly?

  I'm Gary O'Reilly

• 0:12Chuck Nice?

  I'm Chuck Nice

• 0:13Gary O'Reilly?

  And this is Playing with Science This is part two of our look at the fast and furious world of ice hockey. Part one, we lead up the net with the science of the shot and stick engineering. And today, we punch through even deeper into the science of the fastest and toughest sport there is.

• 0:31Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, and helping us with the slippery subject of physics on ice, we'll welcome back physics professor Alan Hachey, who's also the author of Slapshot Science and the Physics of Hockey. Alan is going to help us understand just how much force it's going to take to flatten your opponent against those boards. And, uh, who's not gonna wanna know that, okay? I'll tell you who, me! We're even gonna throw in the science behind the ice itself. No extra charge.

• 1:02Gary O'Reilly?

  There you go, lucky you. Once we've done that, we'll be chatting once again with our good friend and VP of Product at Bauer Hockey, Craig Desjardin. Only this time, we're gonna focus on the take in the skates themselves.

• 1:15Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, and finally, we're gonna hear from the captain of the New York Riveters, a mechanical engineer and a shutdown defenseman who's not a man at all. We're talking about Ashley Johnston. I love this woman. This woman is a hero of mine, I'm sorry people. She's into STEM, she is an athlete, she is the captain of her team. This is gonna be a great show.

• 1:40Gary O'Reilly?

  She's an inspiration, so stay tuned. Just like the ice, it's pretty cool stuff. So, last show, we got into the tech with the stick.

• 1:49Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 1:49Gary O'Reilly?

  Really opened it up, learnt a lot about that. Professor gave us what was going on in the slapshot, the pass, everything else around it. Now, we're gonna get into the skates and there's some real cutting-edge stuff regarding.

• 2:04Chuck Nice?

  Ah, I see what you did there.

• 2:06Gary O'Reilly?

  Did you?

• 2:06Chuck Nice?

  Did you see that?

• 2:07Gary O'Reilly?

  Thank you very much.

• 2:07Chuck Nice?

  Skates, cutting-edge stuff.

• 2:09Gary O'Reilly?

  Thank you. They don't just throw this show together, you know?

• 2:13Gary O'Reilly?

  We've got that, plus, as I, as we said there, the professor's gonna give us an insight into collision. And we know it's not a contact sport. Hockey is a collision sport.

• 2:24Chuck Nice?

  Gosh, you have said a mouthful there, man, because I gotta tell you something. I look at these collisions and, um, the last collision that I watched, um, and I spent some time because I wanted to find a clip for us to get into the show with. So I've been watching like hockey collisions for two days now and I am pretty sure I have a concussion just from watching. This is insane. These guys are crazy. Some of the biggest hits I have ever seen, and I'm a huge football fan. I love when guys level each other on the playing field of football. These dudes, it looks personal. I'm waiting for the guy to start going through his pockets and take his money the way they lay these guys out. It is insane. I feel just a little bit less of a man, Gary.

• 3:10Chuck Nice?

  That's what I'm trying to tell you. It kind, it kind of hurts. I think I'm gonna take up gardening.

• 3:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Ah, dear. Okay, it's quite simple. It's not a sport for the faint-hearted. You're gonna have to be brave. You're gonna have to be tough. And it's probably why they wear padding. Um, all right, while Chuck recovers.

• 3:28Chuck Nice?

  Doesn't from my last, doesn't from my last statements, I too wear a pad.

• 3:32Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, no, too much information.

• 3:35Chuck Nice?

  Too far.

• 3:36Gary O'Reilly?

  All right, let's get that piece of audio now.

• 3:41Chuck Nice?

  So we're gonna take a look at Scott Stevens of the New Jersey Devils, who is known to be one of the hardest-hitting players in NHL history. This guy is a beast. But what is scary is that in this particular clip, uh, as they cross the blue line, Slava Kozlov.

• 4:03Chuck Nice?

  is in front of the net and he has a shot on goal. Now, of course, Stevens is a defenseman. And so he's like, my job is to make sure you don't even take the shot.

• 4:12Gary O'Reilly?

  That's what he does.

• 4:13Chuck Nice?

  And so what he does is, he comes across ice and wham, he levels this guy. And when I say level him, I mean, not only does Kozlov collapse like a cheap card table, but he is knocked out. I mean, knocked out cold.

• 4:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, but before we run the clip, I have to say, when we come back, Chuck will be behind the desk worried.

• 4:36Chuck Nice?

  No.

• 4:36Gary O'Reilly?

  Worried.

• 4:37Chuck Nice?

  Get worried. I'm gonna tell you right now.

• 4:39Gary O'Reilly?

  It's okay.

• 4:39Chuck Nice?

  I watched this and I felt a little bit of my manhood drain out of me. I was like, this is not cool, man.

• 4:46Gary O'Reilly?

  He's gonna take up gardening?

• 4:47Chuck Nice?

  I'm taking up gardening now. This is not like this, this should not be legal. This is a sport where a guy can come across the ice, hit you in such a way that is clean and legal, knock you out, and people come over to him and go, yo, man, that was awesome.

• 5:03Gary O'Reilly?

  But everybody plays by the same rules. So that's why hockey is such a popular sport.

• 5:09Chuck Nice?

  All right, well, let's take a look at Scott Stevens in action.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  Detroit back in. Oh, Stevens stepped up, nailed in, Rodura's got the puck. What a shot. Is that Rouse?

• 5:21Speaker 03

  Oh, lights out.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  Oh, that is Kozlov.

• 5:25Speaker 03

  Oh, baby. The one guy in this league, I'm telling you, Viktor Kozlov does not look like he is with us right now. What a smack.

• 5:37Speaker 02

  Scott Stevens, if you ask players around the league who's got the hardest hit, that's your answer.

• 5:44Gary O'Reilly?

  Do you see what he does before he makes contact? Stick goes down.

• 5:47Chuck Nice?

  Stick goes down.

• 5:47Gary O'Reilly?

  Otherwise, sticks up, he's out.

• 5:49Chuck Nice?

  Well, yeah, now that's a penalty. So, yeah, but I mean, uh. Woo.

• 5:54Gary O'Reilly?

  Quite often, the guys will anticipate the fact that if I'm near the puck, I'm getting hit.

• 6:00Chuck Nice?

  Mm hmm.

• 6:01Gary O'Reilly?

  Your, your natural spider senses kick in.

• 6:03Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 6:03Gary O'Reilly?

  He never saw that coming.

• 6:05Chuck Nice?

  Well, you know, it's so funny. He was so, um, so focused on about, on, he was so focused on taking the shot. He was about to make a shot and he really had a nice shot on goal and never, never happened. So let's bring in now.

• 6:22Chuck Nice?

  Somebody who can hopefully help me.

• 6:24Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay.

• 6:26Gary O'Reilly?

  All right, while Chuck takes a deep breath, I will introduce someone we are familiar with from our first show, Professor Alan Hachey from Moncton University in Canada.

• 6:37Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 6:37Gary O'Reilly?

  Author of Slapshot Science and the physics of ice hockey. Alan, welcome back. You saw that clip. Are you in the, yeah, that's what happens school, or are you with Chuck?

• 6:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's not a pleasant experience, I'm sure, for a cause love there.

• 6:54Chuck Nice?

  No, thanks for the overstatement there, Dr. Hachey.

• 6:59Gary O'Reilly?

  I like it, I like it.

• 7:00Chuck Nice?

  Way to get in there with a controversial statement.

• 7:03Gary O'Reilly?

  So, okay, I mean, there's, there's different types of collisions in the game, or sport of, of hockey. Now, I can see a guy, a big guy hit a smaller guy, and the big guy bounces off. Now, I'm looking at that saying, I don't quite understand what happened there, but there must be some basic laws of physics that means that actually can happen.

• 7:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, as a matter of fact, when you look at a collision, the force on each player or each bodies that collide is always the same. That's called action reaction.

• 7:35Gary O'Reilly?

  Uh huh, okay.

• 7:36Speaker 04

  So it's always the same force, except that if you're a lighter body, you'll accelerate much more faster. So you'll, you'll suffer a bigger displacement or...

• 7:45Gary O'Reilly?

  All right.

• 7:45Speaker 04

  You know, if you have a small car against trucks and they'll experience the same force, but because the truck is much heavier, the guy inside will not notice as much. So, so yeah, if, if the smaller guy is going faster than the, the bigger guy, then, you know, you might have a chance to knock him over, but, uh, yes, indeed, there are different types of collisions. The mid-ice collisions that we saw, um, uh, with Scott Stevens are, are fairly rare. They're dangerous.

• 8:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 8:15Speaker 04

  Uh, most collisions happen along the board.

• 8:18Gary O'Reilly?

  Right.

• 8:18Speaker 04

  So when, when you have an almost stationary player against the board, and then the other guy comes, and then you have this, uh, absorption by the, the board, because the boards will tend to move a little bit. So you will not suffer as much, uh, impact.

• 8:35Chuck Nice?

  So now, are you saying that, uh, from a standpoint of physics, when a player is up against the boards, and you hear that crash, and you hear the sound of the board making the thunderous kind of warble, uh, that the board itself is acting as a shock absorber for the one player hitting the other player?

• 8:53Speaker 04

  Yes, so the bigger the distance, okay, the smaller the force.

• 8:58Chuck Nice?

  Okay, okay.

• 9:00Gary O'Reilly?

  So actually being hit against the boards.

• 9:02Chuck Nice?

  It's better.

• 9:02Gary O'Reilly?

  I like the idea, it's safer.

• 9:04Chuck Nice?

  It's safer.

• 9:05Gary O'Reilly?

  Because I know where my position is, I'm playing on the outside.

• 9:07Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. So now, um, is that because all of the impact is absorbed by the player when you are on center or open ice? Like, what is the physical difference that makes, is it, uh, just from a physics standpoint, give me the physics difference between the two of them that makes the board safer?

• 9:31Speaker 04

  So in the mid-ice collision, you have two guys coming, uh, oftentimes, some, you know, a lot of times in opposite directions at approximately equal speed.

• 9:41Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 9:42Speaker 04

  So that, that makes the relative speed much higher, whereas against the board, then you have a guy which is already against the board, so he cannot move further, and then one other guy comes and hits him. So the relative, the relative velocity is less in the second case.

• 9:55Chuck Nice?

  So from a physical equation, from a physics equation, it's the relative velocity that is the factor here that's at play. So in the open ice, the relative velocity is higher, so the hit is more devastating. Against the board, no matter what you do, the relative velocity will be lower, and so uh, the, the hit is not as, as devastating.

• 10:15Speaker 04

  Yep, you got it.

• 10:16Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 10:17Gary O'Reilly?

  So when, when we talk to NFL guys, particularly linemen, they always talk about the low guy wins, when they're tackling, when they're hitting at the line of scrimmage. Do we have a similar scenario in hockey where the guy with the lower center of gravity can make a more devastating hit or maybe a bigger guy?

• 10:37Speaker 04

  Yes, um, yes, uh, although there's not that big of a difference in height, uh, between players oftentimes, so it wouldn't, there's quite a bit difference in size.

• 10:50Speaker 04

  But um what will what will happen sometimes, one guy will crouch over. Okay, so go lower and that that's very dangerous because the other guy will get uh you know absorb all the impact on his hips or his legs and that's quite dangerous.

• 11:04Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, and you've seen that where guys get low bridge and you see him go flying. They just take flight, you know. Um, let's kind of switch gears now and and go from um the end of uh uh of of this thing, which is the collision, to how it starts, which is the skating. Give us just um an elementary breakdown of the physics of skating. What what is happening when someone is skating?

• 11:32Speaker 04

  Well, it's uh it's it's a little bit complicated, but uh one could say that the main difference between skating and running is that uh during skating, your foot is not going at the speed uh as the ice is going under yourself, you. Whereas running, you have to move your feet as fast as you're running, but in skating, because you're pushing sideways like this, the side motion of the skate is much slower than the actual speed of the player. So that's how they propel themselves. They will put their their blades slightly uh uh open like this and then start pushing side to side, exerting force, uh propelling themselves uh forward.

• 12:12Chuck Nice?

  So they have to push back to go forwards?

• 12:15Speaker 04

  They have to push back to go forwards, yes. Yeah, they have to. Um, now, um, you can attain much higher speeds because you have low friction. It's it's very slippery and because of that uh fact that you don't have to move your feet as fast as you're running, that that's uh that's the main um difference here. But um it takes a certain technique because um if you want to accelerate fast, then you have to bend your knee, you have to to get low in order to be uh lower your center of gravity in order to propel yourself faster. Sometime you see kids, uh they try to go fast, but they're staying up uh straight up like this and that's very difficult to uh to accelerate.

• 12:57Chuck Nice?

  Can you skate as quick backwards as you can forwards? And if not, why not?

• 13:02Speaker 04

  Oh, very good question. Um, no, you can't. Uh, you can skate quite fast. Uh, but you can never, uh, it's just the way the leg is designed. It's designed to move a certain way.

• 13:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Uh huh.

• 13:15Speaker 04

  So that the knee bends, uh, you know, forward. Uh, if it was the other way around, I assume that we could uh, skate backward as fast, but uh, no, I mean, it's not a symmetrical situation where if you turn around, you cannot exert the same power as if you're, um, you're skating forward.

• 13:32Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, so thank you for breaking down the, the physics in skating. Without the ice itself, this is a particularly different game.

• 13:42Chuck Nice?

  A little tough, a little tough to do this in a pool of water.

• 13:45Gary O'Reilly?

  Thank you. Uh, you're in Canada and they tell me that you are blessed with the best ice. Why, how, please explain.

• 13:56Speaker 04

  I'm not sure that's true necessarily. I think, um.

• 14:00Chuck Nice?

  Well, let me put it to you this way. Uh, you know, growing up in Canada, I know a guy, I know a guy. He now lives in Vermont, but he skates on ponds. And he played hockey growing up, skating outdoors on a solidly frozen pond. And, uh, when you look at the ice inside of a stadium, uh, I'm trying to figure out how they keep this ice so hard with the body heat of twenty thousand people. It's indoors, uh, and sometimes it's summertime. So like, i- is there a difference in fast and slow ice? Ice that is so frozen solid, so hard like that of the ice that's three,

• 14:43Chuck Nice?

  three and a half feet thick on a pond and the ice in a, in an arena, which is only a few inches thick. So is there a difference between fast and slow ice?

• 14:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, um, it's a, it's true that you want to keep the ice at a temperature of around, say, minus seven to minus ten degrees Celsius. So that would be around the twenties, I guess, in Celsius. Uh, if it gets too warm, close to the melting temperature, it gets soft. And then when you're, you're skating on it, you're digging deep into the ice and that slows the skate. Um. If it's too cold, then the friction coefficient uh is not as good. It's not as slippery when it's really, really cold.

• 15:20Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay.

• 15:21Speaker 04

  But uh yeah, yeah. So they wanna keep it at a certain temperature and it's absolutely true that it's difficult to do that in the stadium outside. I I remember there was this uh game in Pittsburgh outside uh Penguins and I forgot the other team, but uh it was a challenge because it was rainy on top of that and the rain pop falls on the ice and makes kind of like uh makes it slushy. And it's very difficult to get good ice uh outdoor at any condition. The the indoors usually is much better.

• 15:48Gary O'Reilly?

  Ah, am I right, Ella, um in there being conflicting theories of how you're able to skate across the surface of the ice, one being pressure, the other being vibrating molecules on the surface? Is one the- theory gonna be debunked or is it a case of maybe it's the two together?

• 16:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, it turns out that ice uh itself, if you look at it with microscopes, very powerful microscopes, uh you look at actual water molecules, they're actually uh on the top surface, they're very uh mobile. So it's almost like a semi-liquid type thing. It's, the ice is by itself wet. You don't have, the surface of it is is wet. Even if it's a microscopically um uh thick, it's very, very thin. But uh it it it's there and that's what makes ice slippery. It's a very unique material because we don't know uh very many other solids that are as slippery as ice. Uh and but because of that, we have uh, you know, winter sports. Without that, winter sports would be uh not possible.

• 16:54Gary O'Reilly?

  Am I right in saying the molecules vibrate vertically rather than horizontally? Because if they were horizontal, it would just be a liquid surface?

• 17:01Speaker 04

  No, they vibrate in all directions. Uh it's just that they're not attached. The the molecules that are under the ice are have have neighbors everywhere and they're linked. They have uh bonds, you know.

• 17:15Gary O'Reilly?

  Alright.

• 17:15Speaker 04

  Held held into place, whereas the ones at the top, they don't have anything upstairs, so they're kind of dangling there and

• 17:21Gary O'Reilly?

  Sounds like me.

• 17:24Gary O'Reilly?

  Alan, thank you for putting me right on that one because there's, you know, there's a lot of sort of written evidence about molecules vibrating, but we have a definitive explanation there from a professor.

• 17:36Chuck Nice?

  Who knew they were actually vibrating? This is, uh, yes, this is good news.

• 17:40Gary O'Reilly?

  Absolutely.

• 17:41Chuck Nice?

  I don't know why. I'm not sure why that's good news, but it is.

• 17:46Chuck Nice?

  So, okay, so they indeed are vibrating.

• 17:48Gary O'Reilly?

  Yes.

• 17:48Chuck Nice?

  Which is cool. But that brings us to the second, um, not theory, but, uh, postulate, which, uh, we heard from our own Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson about how the blade on the actual ice surface creates a pressure that causes a molecular change in the ice to, uh, an actual extremely thin layer of water that causes the skate to then glide on a sheet of water, which immediately refreezes once the skate has passed over it. Is that also true?

• 18:30Speaker 04

  Yes. So what you're referring to is what's called pressure melting of ice.

• 18:34Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 18:34Speaker 04

  There's actually a very neat experiment you can do. You take a long blot of ice and then you attach a, uh, copper wire around it and you suspend two masses and the weight of the masses will, uh, make the wire cut into the ice because it's melting right under the wire, turning to water. And then right on top, it becomes ice again. So the, the wire will just cut through the ice and will fall down and the ice will be intact.

• 19:01Chuck Nice?

  And the ice will still be a block of ice?

• 19:04Speaker 04

  Yes. Okay. So, yes, this happens under a skate as well. So if you're looking at the sharp edges of the blade, you have a very, very small area and a lot of force applied. So you can melt the ice and that's probably playing a factor as well. Except that it cannot explain why, say, a puck, which is, has a, a big area under and it is very light, can also, um, um, slide on the ice fairly easily with, with exactly the same, almost exactly the same friction. And that explains it. So ice itself is slippery, but you can help it. By yeah liquefying some of a layer of water on top that will help lubricating the surface but without it even with low pressure something can slide easily on the ice.

• 19:48Chuck Nice?

  Ah there you have it so we have a both and.

• 19:51Gary O'Reilly?

  Both.

• 19:52Chuck Nice?

  So we have a both and not an either or.

• 19:54Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 19:54Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 19:55Chuck Nice?

  This is awesome. We are solving the problems of the world right here, okay? That's all I'm saying. This is wonderful.

• 19:59Gary O'Reilly?

  Professor, with your experience as a player, with your knowledge as an expert in the field of physics, can you see hockey embracing science to take itself even further forward as a sport?

• 20:13Speaker 04

  I think it's under a lot of help by the industry. There's technological improvements. Every, you know, every year they're they come up with new products, more, we were talking about collision before, well, there's better equipment, new materials that can use as paddings, new types of materials for skate blades, new design in the boots, new sticks, etc. So I think there is a lot of improvement in the sport by companies that provide equipment. There's also improvements in the way they measure hockey players, you know, they acquire

• 20:54Speaker 04

  a lot of data now, just their position on the ice, how fast they go, maybe they get tired, they slow down a little bit and then analyze those data, but those are things teams will do like professional teams, they'll do that to try to optimize their their team as as best as they can.

• 21:13Chuck Nice?

  Awesome. Wow, man. Well, thank you so much.

• 21:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Absolutely.

• 21:17Chuck Nice?

  This has been, this has been absolutely fascinating and quite, quite a little education.

• 21:22Gary O'Reilly?

  Been revelational. Professor Alan Hachey, thank you so much for your time. Been a pleasure to have you on our show. Please, listeners, go and check out the professor's books, Slapshot Science and the Physics of Hockey. If you've enjoyed listening to him, I'm sure you'll be interested and thrilled reading his work. We will take a break and just as the professor touched on before, interesting technological developments in the equipment and who better to tell us about it but Craig Desjardin at Bauer Hockey to discuss all of that next on Playing with Science. Do not go away.

• 21:58Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 21:59Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Chuck Nice.

• 22:00Gary O'Reilly?

  And this is Playing with Science. Yes, you know that because you're so tuned in and you're here from the beginning. And today, as you know, we are exploring the world of hockey, AKA Physics on Ice.

• 22:14Chuck Nice?

  Not to be concerned, not to be confused with Disney on Ice, which is not nearly as good.

• 22:19Gary O'Reilly?

  No, not at all. No. And now joining us by video call to break down all the technology that goes into skate the dine. And if you just think it's a boot with a blade, oh, you're so wrong. Stick around. Craig Dardan, the Vice President of Product at Bauer Hockey, will tell you otherwise. Craig, good to have you back on show too, my friend. Welcome. Thanks for coming back, man.

• 22:39Speaker 05

  We're excited. Thank you, guys.

• 22:40Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, man.

• 22:41Gary O'Reilly?

  As we did in show one with the hockey stick, a little bit of history. Because weren't Bauer the originator of the first sort of complete riveted blade boot lace up scenario way back in the 30s? Around about the time I was born, before you say it.

• 22:58Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 22:59Speaker 05

  Exactly. You know, just taking what essentially was a boot and something as novel as attaching a steel blade so they could skate across the frozen pond or to get where they were going. And it sort of morphed into, you know, we're very fortunate to have about 78% of NHL players in Bauer skates.

• 23:19Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 23:20Speaker 05

  It's very exciting.

• 23:21Chuck Nice?

  That's good, too. And it's true. I mean, when you go to a sporting goods store, even when you look at the skates, you guys are still, you're still there too. Like, how much? I mean, you don't have to tell us this because maybe this is, it doesn't make a difference. But how much market share do you guys have?

• 23:36Gary O'Reilly?

  90%.

• 23:37Chuck Nice?

  Yeah. What are you guys like? Are you really up there? Like, are you like about 90 something percent of the market? Bauer skates? I don't mean all equipment. I mean, just skates.

• 23:45Speaker 05

  It's, it's, it's not quite that high, but it's, it's relatively high.

• 23:49Chuck Nice?

  I know it is, man. All right.

• 23:50Gary O'Reilly?

  For those of you who can't see Craig's face, it has got a grin the size of.

• 23:56Chuck Nice?

  It's like a Cheshire Cat grin. Like, the rest of them disappeared. The smile stayed there.

• 24:00Gary O'Reilly?

  But he's not, there's no arrogance.

• 24:01Chuck Nice?

  No, no arrogance.

• 24:02Gary O'Reilly?

  It's just, you know what? We're really pleased that we have this slice of the market. So you've gone through. The perforated chassis phase, am I right? And now you're on to oven baked, heat molded skates with carbon fiber. Am I right? Cause that's, that's something I could never have imagined was happening.

• 24:21Chuck Nice?

  Well, you know, before you even get into that, just give us a breakdown of like the history of a skate. Hockey has gotten so much faster.

• 24:30Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 24:30Chuck Nice?

  Oh, I mean, I, you know, I'm, I'm not going to profess to be like the biggest hockey fan, but I have always been a fan. Uh, I am a Philadelphia Flyers fan. Thank you very much. Um, uh, yes.

• 24:43Speaker 05

  We won't hold it against you.

• 24:44Chuck Nice?

  I know, I know you were going to say that. I knew you were going to say that, you know, but, but we are a team that is steeped in the tradition of hockey. Okay. Lot, a lot of history there. My Broad Street Bullies going all the way back there. Uh, the orange and black forever. But anyway, uh, when you look at these, uh, older clips and you look at hockey from back in the day. Uh, these guys are not moving nearly as fast as they are right now. Is that because of skate technology advancements? And if so, can you give us kind of a breakdown as to what has happened to skates and why hockey has become so much faster?

• 25:20Speaker 05

  It's an interesting question. I think, um, I think definitely part of it is the athlete and how they train because I think it's that portion of the game is significantly evolved, but from an equipment standpoint. You know, we came out with the Vapor Eight skate in 1997, which was a game changer. Because prior to that, every skate on the market was, uh, traditionally a black synthetic leather. Very traditional, uh, were all made similar and the Vapor Eight skate was a one-piece quarter. It was, you know, roughly 20% lighter than any skate that players have seen out there. And instead of having that traditional lacing profile, it was more aggressive.

• 26:05Speaker 05

  So players could really not only flex forward more easily, but they had a better feel for the ice because there was less interference between their foot and the blade.

• 26:15Gary O'Reilly?

  How much do players talk to you about the transmission between the ice and their own foot inside the boot? So do they talk about that? Is that, as you say, so vital to them to be able to feel intimately what's going on beneath them?

• 26:29Chuck Nice?

  Which is funny because you hear that from like race car drivers about their tires, how the tires give the road a certain feeling. Is that the case, what Gary just said about the ice and the blade and the skate?

• 26:44Speaker 05

  That's actually a great analogy because you wouldn't want to put, you know, Formula One tires on a Pinto. So you're talking about these elite level athletes and sometimes it's hard to articulate what they're feeling. But I think anytime that, you know, when they take those first three steps, they're crisper, they feel like the energy transfer is pure. And we're eliminating the slop that comes from a skate that is either loose fitting or too bulky, then players not only feel more responsive, they also feel more agile because as they're crossing over or running into those quick stop and goes, their ability

• 27:29Speaker 05

  to move their feet and articulate their ankles quicker is also part of the benefit.

• 27:33Gary O'Reilly?

  So how have you managed to eliminate that slack within the boot itself?

• 27:38Speaker 05

  Well, you know, especially in our high-end skates, we use a manufacturing process that's called 3D compression molding. So if you look at the skate from the rear, it actually mirrors, you know, the actual shape of your foot. So the ankle bone and the articulation of the heel. And the beauty of the curved composite materials that we use is you can take that whole skate, put it in a skate oven, heat it up in about three minutes, and you can further shape that material around, whether it's a bone spur or any specific nuances of someone's foot. So they have that purely customized fit.

• 28:23Gary O'Reilly?

  It's a bespoke boot for the elite players.

• 28:26Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 28:27Gary O'Reilly?

  They must love you. I mean, we're talking Cinderella. This is absolutely fabulous. I don't know any other elite sports where that attention to detail for footwear actually takes place.

• 28:43Speaker 05

  Well, you know, let's take it one step further. So an often overlooked element is is the blade. So what's below the boot of the skate?

• 28:53Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 28:54Speaker 05

  And we came out with a technology a couple of years ago called Lightspeed Edge. And what you can essentially do is there's a little trigger and you pull the trigger on the blade and you can remove the steel. And what we're seeing is because every player, much like the blade of a stick, has preferences on their sharpening, hollow.

• 29:15Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 29:17Speaker 05

  Or whatever rocker, they can essentially go to the bench, pull the trigger, remove the steel and put in a new one. And there's players who have two to three sets a game.

• 29:27Chuck Nice?

  What you have done is kind of like in the NFL, and I'm sure any real football fans will know this, and probably in any other sports where they use cleats, you can change your cleats now. You know, if the field is sloppy, then you can change your cleats and you put in a longer, deeper cleat. If the field is dry and kind of dirt-like, you want to put in a shorter cleat and so that you can get a better feel for the ground under your feet. So you can do that same thing for the player with the blade.

• 30:00Speaker 05

  Well, you can do it on ice conditions. And there's also the dynamic in hockey where a player will go crashing into the net or into the boards or unfortunately break their steel and lose an edge.

• 30:12Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 30:12Speaker 05

  So it's the combination of both. And we're trying to cover for all those factors. So it's a great advantage for those players who, you know, if they're not scoring a goal and they need to change something up, that's an option. Or if they lose an edge during the game, they're not wasting, you know, five minutes or a couple of shifts. They can change it, you know, in 20 seconds.

• 30:32Gary O'Reilly?

  And when you say lose an edge, it's that sharpness on the blade itself, right?

• 30:38Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 30:39Gary O'Reilly?

  Now, that's how in tune a player is, that he will know the edge has gone on his blade.

• 30:45Chuck Nice?

  Really?

• 30:46Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, I mean, I don't skate, so I'm clueless. But that's how, that, you talk about the transition of, of knowledge between the ice and the, the player. It's, it's so intimate.

• 30:56Chuck Nice?

  That's insane, that the fact that you will know, like, wow, my skates aren't, I've, I've lost, my skates are dulling up. I gotta, I gotta get a better edge on my skate. That's pretty wild.

• 31:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, and I think in its purest sense, what we're trying to do is, is create the sensation of having your, your bare foot with a, a blade attached to the bottom of it. And if we can create that sensation on the ice and, and have that sort of energy transfer happening, then, then that's an advantage for the player.

• 31:24Chuck Nice?

  Let me, let me ask you one last question about the anatomy or the design of a blade itself. Um, so I've seen that the blade is actually not a flat metal surface. It's a little curved, hollowed surface. Can you tell me, why is that? Why is that, why is it shaped like that?

• 31:40Speaker 05

  Well, I think, uh, you know, it's, it's sort of curved, uh, in both ways. So you have a hollow so that, because you skate on both your inside and your outside edge.

• 31:49Chuck Nice?

  I got you. So it's like having two blades on one blade.

• 31:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's almost like, you can imagine skiing, turning left and right.

• 31:56Chuck Nice?

  Left and right.

• 31:56Speaker 05

  Similar phenomenon. So depending on your skating style, some people, it's almost like a ballroom dancer. You have, whether you're big or small, some people are, uh, quick on their feet, uh, and move more fluidly and, and some don't. So you can really fine tune that based on skating style.

• 32:13Gary O'Reilly?

  What next? You've, you've advanced the sport so far with the equipment. What next without giving away every one of your secrets?

• 32:22Speaker 05

  Well, you know what? I think there's a couple of things. I think we're really taking a closer look at, uh, how do we take customization of equipment to the next level? Because we are seeing not only, uh, advantages by reducing their weight, um, but we're also looking at, because hockey's a game of agility. Uh, so it's not like speed skating, which is more like NASCAR. We're more like Formula One, where the, there's these quick accelerations, change in direction. Uh, so the ability to fine tune that equipment. I think the other aspect is technology and how technology is integrating with equipment. So, you know, players are looking for feedback, not only on their biometrics,

• 33:06Speaker 05

  heart rate, pulse, sweat, things like that, but also if you could know either as a training tool or on ice, how fast you're skating, your location, so is your positioning sound if you're a left winger versus a right winger.

• 33:23Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 33:24Speaker 05

  So I think we're actively looking at how technology can be infused in equipment to give players not only an advantage performance-wise, but also to help them become better players.

• 33:34Chuck Nice?

  Wow. So, yeah, let's switch gears for a quick second, when you talk about helping players. I am still just flabbergasted by the fact that the hits in hockey are just so devastatingly difficult to watch. I mean, these guys flying across the ice, sometimes at thirty-something miles an hour, wham, hitting one another. The collisions many times are far greater than what they are in football. And, you know, football has some of the most spectacular collisions that you will find.

• 34:13Chuck Nice?

  What do you guys see in terms of helping players protect their noggin when it comes to, you know, taking those kinds of hits?

• 34:23Speaker 05

  So I think there's kind of, there's two exciting things that we have in the works. I think, one, you know, if you look inside a helmet compared to, you know, a helmet six or seven years ago, they've changed dramatically because what we're seeing in the game is you have these low-energy impacts, sort of a player getting bumped. You have high-energy impacts, which are sort of the bigger hits and collisions, and then you have sort of rotational impacts, which are an element of a lot of different types of hits. So when we're looking at technologies in helmets, whether it's a suspension system, there's multiple different layers that are, that are sort of made to absorb and dissipate

• 35:07Speaker 05

  the energy from, and manage all those different types of impacts. So that's, that's one where we're able to simulate, you know, rotational hits and all those different types of impacts in our, in our lab and recreate exactly what's going on on ice. I think the second part to that is, you know, we're coming out with a technology this year in the Canadian market called Neural Shield, which is essentially a collar that players can wear around their neck.

• 35:36Chuck Nice?

  Mm-hmm. Sweet.

• 35:37Speaker 05

  And what it's doing is, is actually simulating, um, if you can imagine what a woodpecker does and how many times a woodpecker hits a tree and you gotta wonder how.

• 35:49Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 35:49Speaker 05

  There's no sort of head injury related to the amount of force it's applying.

• 35:54Chuck Nice?

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:55Speaker 05

  Um, you know, being able to, uh, essentially maintain a slightly higher blood volume around your brain.

• 36:03Chuck Nice?

  Okay.

• 36:04Speaker 05

  Uh, no, no different than, uh, um.

• 36:07Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 36:08Speaker 05

  Uh, than when you're, you know, you're coughing or you get up in the morning and there's more, more blood flow. What that does is act as almost like a, a bubble.

• 36:16Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, you're, you're cushion, you're cushioning from the, from the inside of the head itself.

• 36:21Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 36:22Chuck Nice?

  That's insane.

• 36:23Gary O'Reilly?

  No, it's brilliant.

• 36:25Speaker 05

  We're looking at technology that can protect from the outside and, and from the inside.

• 36:28Chuck Nice?

  Well, when I say insane, I mean.

• 36:29Gary O'Reilly?

  No, no, I get the way you meant it, yeah.

• 36:30Chuck Nice?

  But that is, that's, that's awesome. I mean, that is something that can actually span all sports where, where head injuries can be a problem, right?

• 36:39Speaker 05

  That's exactly it.

• 36:41Gary O'Reilly?

  Game changer.

• 36:42Chuck Nice?

  That is a game changer.

• 36:43Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah, sir, we applaud you. Anything that can protect an athlete, particularly in a collision sport like hockey, yeah, absolutely to you and your, your technical and engineers and all the little science bunnies you have there.

• 36:56Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, good luck with that one.

• 36:57Gary O'Reilly?

  Fabulous.

• 36:58Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, I'm, uh, let me tell you something, I'm gonna keep an eye on that, cause the moment you guys break through on that, I gotta, I gotta buy some Bauer stock.

• 37:03Gary O'Reilly?

  Craig, once again, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for your time. Thank you for allowing us insight into what you do with your company and we wish you all the very best and we hope to have you back in the future.

• 37:21Speaker 05

  Gentlemen, it's, it's been a blast. Thank you very much.

• 37:24Gary O'Reilly?

  Well, it's very kind of you to say. Thank you so much.

• 37:26Chuck Nice?

  Wow.

• 37:27Gary O'Reilly?

  What we learned.

• 37:28Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, man, that's some great stuff right there. I am, uh, I'm super excited.

• 37:31Gary O'Reilly?

  Okay, another break. Um, when we come back, we will have a defenseman, Ashley Johnston, from the New York Riveters, captain, as well as being a mechanical engineer, sports and science combined in one person. Stick around, we'll be back shortly.

• 37:53Gary O'Reilly?

  Welcome back. I'm Gary O'Reilly.

• 37:55Chuck Nice?

  And I'm Chuck Nice.

• 37:56Gary O'Reilly?

  And this, of course, is Playing with Science. And today, we've been exploring the science of skating and collisions in the fast and furious world of ice hockey.

• 38:07Chuck Nice?

  Did you like that? That was my, uh...

• 38:08Gary O'Reilly?

  I did.

• 38:08Chuck Nice?

  That was my shushing of the ice.

• 38:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Elegant.

• 38:12Chuck Nice?

  That's... okay.

• 38:13Gary O'Reilly?

  Yeah.

• 38:13Chuck Nice?

  Enough of that.

• 38:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Happy?

• 38:14Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, I was happy. I had to do it.

• 38:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Oh, 'cause he's happy. Joining us now by video call is Ashley Johnston, captain of the New York Riveters.

• 38:22Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 38:23Gary O'Reilly?

  Ashley, welcome to the show. Absolutely fabulous, because you're not just a hockey player, you are a mechanical engineer. And if Bill Nye was here, he would be in the noteworthy position. He would absolutely adore you, so welcome to our show.

• 38:37Speaker 06

  Thanks for having me, guys. I'm really excited to be on.

• 38:39Chuck Nice?

  Yeah, it's very cool. Let me ask you, uh, you know, first of all, such a wonderful, um, marriage of science and sport. How did you get into hockey? Because, you know, uh, it's a strange sport, as far as I'm concerned, for a young girl to say, "You know what? I wanna play hockey." Uh, unless you're Canadian, you know.

• 39:06Speaker 06

  So I am Canadian.

• 39:07Chuck Nice?

  Oh!

• 39:08Speaker 06

  So...

• 39:09Chuck Nice?

  Ta-da! Okay. Well, there you have it.

• 39:12Gary O'Reilly?

  That's an answer.

• 39:13Speaker 06

  So I was basically born with skates on.

• 39:14Chuck Nice?

  Yes, you were. Yes, you were.

• 39:16Gary O'Reilly?

  Looking at both sides of you, did you bring any of your mechanical engineering thinking to your game?

• 39:25Speaker 06

  Uh, yeah, I definitely... I play a lot more of a strategic game, I'd say. Uh, so, you know, simple things like I love using the boards to make a pass, um, because things like, you know, the angle that you pass the puck into the board is the same angle that's essentially gonna come out at. Uh, things like that.

• 39:42Gary O'Reilly?

  Canadian hockey. Nice.

• 39:44Speaker 06

  Yeah. So that's definitely a big one, um, as well as just simple strategic plays, like set plays. I I love things like that. Um, they just really work out well. It's like one big game of risk.

• 39:58Chuck Nice?

  All right, cool. So, um, when you, when you look at your background in robotics, which, you know, before I actually say that, before I actually say that, we should let people know that you lead a robotics team as well as leading, uh, the New York Riveters. Uh, you are also leading a robotics team and, uh, I believe while you were in school, you developed a prosthetic that actually grows with a child who has lost a limb. Am I correct there? Is that, is that the right way I'm saying it right?

• 40:33Speaker 06

  Yep, that's, uh, that's all correct. So at my, uh, at my work, which is a company called, uh, PVA, I lead a, uh, industrial slash manufacturing engineering team here. So we basically do a lot of work on the assembly line, how the robots, uh, go together. And then while I was in college, I developed an adjustable prosthetic prototype. Um, so with the idea being that as children grow, um, prosthetic would fit the stump a lot better because it would be adjustable in essentially every asset.

• 41:03Chuck Nice?

  And, and, and before your invention, uh, your innovation, children basically had to buy a new prosthetic every few years as they grew, right?

• 41:14Speaker 06

  Yes, that's correct. So I think of it like a shoe. Uh, essentially you don't have the same shoe size for your entire life. As you're growing, you're continually having to buy new shoes, except for prosthetics are exceptionally more expensive than shoes. On top of that, you're spending money for something that doesn't really totally fit you. It's kind of like a, like wearing shoes that are half a size too big or half a size too small just because of how much the stump swells throughout the course of a day.

• 41:39Chuck Nice?

  So let me ask.

• 41:40Gary O'Reilly?

  It's interesting if you think about a teenager, the growth spurts that you can go through in, in the short space of time, you know, could be weeks and a month. And there you are, you, you're back down there buying a new one. That must, that really must, you, that families must love you.

• 41:54Chuck Nice?

  There are families that just love you.

• 41:55Gary O'Reilly?

  For sure.

• 41:56Chuck Nice?

  Do families just stop you in the airport like, yo, we love you? Like, that's gotta happen. Yeah. That's fantastic.

• 42:03Speaker 06

  No, that's not. It's still a, it's still a prototype, so it's still something that has a long way to go before it comes a commercial product.

• 42:10Chuck Nice?

  Well, I saw it and I think it's, I think it's an ingenious design and I just love the way, uh, what, what, what, what Ashley did for those, since I don't want to talk about it without explaining it though, and I hope I'm explaining it correctly, but you use like a bladder that it can be inflated the same way like you pump up a shoe. No, I'm with you. You know what I mean? And then, uh, there's an adjustable strap around that and then the same way that you, um, if you think of the crutches that have the little pin in them that allow for different heights on a pair of crutches, you've done that with the stem of the prosthetic for like a leg.

• 42:49Chuck Nice?

  And so the, the person can, it, it can literally grow with that person. I think it's ingenious. I, I, I applaud you. I, I, I have to say, um, prototype or not, it, I, I, I have a feeling it's gonna work and you should be very proud of yourself.

• 43:05Speaker 06

  Thank you. Thank you very much.

• 43:07Chuck Nice?

  So let me ask you with this. When it comes to the innovation that you find in putting together something like this and leading a team of robotics, are there any parallels that you can draw, uh, to being the captain of a professional hockey team?

• 43:19Speaker 06

  Yeah, for sure. Uh, you know, science, leadership, uh, it's everywhere. Um, so when you're leading a team, uh, in, in industry or leading a team on the ice, it's essentially gonna be the same thing. Kind of focusing a group of people towards one common goal, whether that common goal is, um, you know, building a robot, building a prosthetic, winning a championship. It's really just uniting everyone and kind of trying to bring out the best of everybody so that you, uh, all fit together as one, one big puzzle and, um, can cohesively achieve your goal.

• 43:52Gary O'Reilly?

  So at the moment, you've got a couple of big games on the horizon. Have you got a semifinal of a playoff? And is it the Isabel Cup that you're in?

• 44:01Speaker 06

  That's correct.

• 44:02Gary O'Reilly?

  So, uh...

• 44:04Gary O'Reilly?

  Your leadership skills can't be doubted then Chuck, can they?

• 44:06Chuck Nice?

  Yeah.

• 44:07Gary O'Reilly?

  No.

• 44:07Chuck Nice?

  By the way, Isabelle Cupp's so much better of a name than Stanley. Just saying.

• 44:14Gary O'Reilly?

  Do you ever think they were married?

• 44:17Gary O'Reilly?

  Isabelle and Stanley. Anyway. I'll ask you what you think your chances are, but that's kind of a leading question and you might not want to answer it, so I'll understand.

• 44:26Speaker 06

  Uh, so well, I'm gonna knock on wood, but I, I think we have a good chance, um, you know, over, one of the things we even talked about is throughout the season, really peaking at the end of the year. Um, so peaking during the championship season. So we're playing our best hockey at the right time.

• 44:43Chuck Nice?

  Sweet.

• 44:43Speaker 06

  And I think trajectory has definitely been, uh, right on that course.

• 44:47Chuck Nice?

  All right. Let me ask you about, uh, when I look at your physical, um, play. Uh, you know, you're, you're somewhat taller than most women, period. Uh, a little bit taller than, uh, many of, uh, those on the ice with you. Uh, is that an advantage in hockey or a disadvantage? Uh, and, and how do you use it or overcome it depending upon what it is?

• 45:12Speaker 06

  Yeah, for sure. So most people see me, so I'm six feet tall. Um, and the first question that they have is, oh, you play basketball or? Um, so I kind of missed the boat on that one. Uh, I'm actually awful at basketball. But, uh, for hockey, it has its benefits just in the sense that my stick is a lot longer than most other players. Um, so with that, my reach and my poke check can kind of overcompensate for the faster, smaller, um, smaller females who are skating around. Obviously having, uh, uh, very strong quads and a lower center of gravity is really beneficial in hockey. Um, but I kind of get to have the

• 45:51Speaker 06

  upper end in the sense of that for the couple of steps that somebody might have on me, I gain it back by having a foot longer stick. Um. So that's definitely one of the big ways that's helped me.

• 46:03Gary O'Reilly?

  Is there any other ways that you've, because of your physique, adapted yourself to the game of hockey and found a way? Cause you obviously are quite a good thinker, found a way to exploit that as an asset outside of the length of the stick?

• 46:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, for sure. So also like body positioning, um, just because I am bigger. Uh, if I have proper body positioning, I can typically, um, really use my strength, my side to, um, overpower uh, a smaller player. Um, that's definitely been a huge one. And then also just again, the mental side of the game. So if I know where the puck's going to be, uh, before somebody else does, then I can get there. I get a head start.

• 46:44Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 46:45Speaker 06

  So whenever you have a head start, you, you have a hu- much higher chance of, uh, winning. And also at the same time, uh, you can almost say using a little bit of probability in there and understanding that if somebody's momentum is so much and if they're going so fast, then the chances of them getting there first, okay, well, maybe I should go over here instead.

• 47:01Chuck Nice?

  So that's the science thinking.

• 47:03Gary O'Reilly?

  That's the science thinking there. The probability, the working out of the vectoring of where, when, no, I need to be here, pop right place, right time.

• 47:11Chuck Nice?

  Nice. So let me ask you, cause you're known as, and, uh, I have, uh, done a little bit of reading and it's been said several times in anything that's written about you, shut down defenseman, I'm going to say shut down defense person. Okay. Uh, wh- what is necessary to be a shut down defense person in the game of hockey?

• 47:33Speaker 06

  Uh, so I think exactly what I was talking about before, basically the calculation of knowing where people are going to be beforehand. Okay. Is huge. Um, because then if you're able to meet them sooner and take away the time and space. If a player has a lot of time and space, they have a lot more time to think. And then that typically will result in, um, um, producing a better play than they would have if they had to make a rush. So same thing, if you're doing a math problem all the time in the world, you're probably going to get more likely to go to the right answer than if you have a 30 second countdown clock.

• 48:08Speaker 06

  So yeah, so that that's a huge component of it.

• 48:10Gary O'Reilly?

  Ashley is outthinking her opponents, Chuck.

• 48:12Chuck Nice?

  There you go.

• 48:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:15Chuck Nice?

  I mean, in a very, and you know what I love is the fact that the the way the way that you said that is very humble.

• 48:22Gary O'Reilly?

  That's it.

• 48:23Chuck Nice?

  Very humble. It's not like, because the real answer is, oh, I'm smarter than you. That's, see, here's the real deal. I'm smarter than you. I'm I'm outthinking you on the ice. That's what I'm doing.

• 48:33Gary O'Reilly?

  That's not Ashley. That's just that. That's the whole personality. All right, let's let's flip it outside of you and we'll turn it two ways here. What technical advantages of advances have you seen in hockey since you started to play? And what sort of technical scientific advances would you like to see come to your sport?

• 48:55Speaker 06

  Uh, so definitely one of the biggest ones has been the sticks. Uh, this have been absolutely. So now they're kind of a, um, so originally you had the wood, uh, like your typical wood stick. Now it's a lot more of the fiberglass. Actually, some of them even have Kevlar weaved inside of them, some of the Boro sticks. Uh, so from that composite, you're basically getting the best of both worlds where it's uh, structurally sound enough to be a pop, or sorry, to be a stick and and not fall apart on you. But you still, when you have your force going down, can get that flex. Um, and that flex what makes your shot a lot more powerful. And additionally, one of the things that has been worked on a lot is the feel of the puck.

• 49:39Speaker 06

  So not only are you getting that, um, again, that that flex factor, but also as soon as a puck's on your stick, but you can literally feel it all the way up the shaft to your hands.

• 49:49Gary O'Reilly?

  What's your preference? Mid or low flex point?

• 49:53Speaker 06

  I like the low flex point, uh, just because I find it's a little bit more, a little bit better for how I shoot. Um, just because I'm taller and I typically don't bend my knees as much.

• 50:02Gary O'Reilly?

  Ah.

• 50:02Speaker 06

  Uh, having that, uh, that that little extra bit at the end of the stick really helps me, helps the whip factor. So when your blade's coming through.

• 50:12Gary O'Reilly?

  Have you got your hands on those new Bower skates that are heat molded and have the carbon fiber little trigger blade things? Have you got your hands on those yet?

• 50:21Speaker 06

  Yes, so I have a pair of those. Absolutely. I love them. I think that they're amazing, especially the heat molding factor of it. Really does like wrap around your foot.

• 50:33Gary O'Reilly?

  So how do you feel now, wearing a boot like that and being able to feel exactly what's beneath your foot or feet?

• 50:42Speaker 06

  It's, I mean, so if you think about it, you're skating around on like a, you know, a couple millimeter thick blade on ice. So it's incredible to be able to have that sort of agility that that boot allows you to have, as well as just even the science behind the metal on it, that you're melting the ice while you're skating. And that's how you're really, you're truly moving is a pretty cool factor. If you want a hard skate, you feel your blade afterwards, you can actually feel a little heat coming off of it.

• 51:12Chuck Nice?

  Sweet. Nice. Well, you know what? You are, I can't tell you just how impressive you are, just all across the board, being somebody who is a leader in mechanical engineering, a leader in sports, a person who is an innovator. You're just impressive all the way around. You should be very, very proud of yourself. I want to go and kiss your parents and tell them that, you know, they've done a fantastic job. And, you know, I want you to call-

• 51:42Gary O'Reilly?

  You're in love mode, aren't you?

• 51:43Chuck Nice?

  I am. And I want you to call my daughter and let her know that, you know, everything that she wants in this world is possible. And we're just so happy that you came on the show. Thanks so much.

• 51:55Gary O'Reilly?

  Ashley, you're an inspiration, and we wish you and your team the very best of luck in your future games. And you're elite in both the field of science and sport, and that's exactly what playing in science is all about. So thank you so much for being on the show. Been fabulous.

• 52:10Speaker 06

  Thank you guys so much for having me. This is great. And I really enjoyed it. So thank you very much.

• 52:15Gary O'Reilly?

  Pleasure's ours.

• 52:16Chuck Nice?

  All right.

• 52:17Gary O'Reilly?

  Thank you. So Chuck.

• 52:18Chuck Nice?

  Yes.

• 52:19Gary O'Reilly?

  Physics.

• 52:19Chuck Nice?

  Right, so Chuck, yes. Physics.

• 52:21Gary O'Reilly?

  On ice.

• 52:22Chuck Nice?

  On ice.

• 52:23Gary O'Reilly?

  Alan Hesey opened our minds to everything that goes in with Slapshot, what we can find out, physics and science on the ice. Then Craig Desjardin lets us inside the secrets that go into Bower products.

• 52:38Chuck Nice?

  Right.

• 52:40Gary O'Reilly?

  And then we have an inspiration of a player, a leader from the New York River Tuss. You know, I think overall it was a great show. That's what I'm gonna say. I'm Gary O'Reilly. I'm Chuck Nice. And this has been Playing with Science.