Chris Appleton EXCLUSIVE: “I Thought My Kids Would Be Better Off Without Me” Opening up About The Darkest Night of His Life and What FINALLY Gave Him The Courage to Live Authentically

Have you ever felt pressure to hide a part of who you are? What helps you feel safe enough to open up? Today, Jay chats with renowned celebrity hairstylist Chris Appleton to share deeply personal parts of his life he’s never shared publicly. Known for creating iconic looks for stars like Kim Kardashian, Jennifer Lopez, and Ariana Grande, Chris has built a career around image and transformation. Chris bravely opens up about the journey that shaped him, pulling back the curtain on the private struggles behind his public success. From growing up in a working-class town in England, and discovering his passion for hair was a way to survive, to feel seen, and to express who he really was. As the conversation unfolds, Chris opens up about the darkest night of his life. The moment he nearly ended his life, a breaking point born from decades of shame, fear, and the belief that being true to himself would hurt the people he loved most. What followed was not an overnight transformation, but a long, honest path toward healing. Chris speaks candidly about coming out as gay in his late twenties, the grief of ending a nine-year relationship with the mother of his children, and the fear of disappointing his kids. Jay and Chris explore the power of redefining identity, letting go of what no longer serves us, and embracing the possibility of change at any stage in life. With the support of therapy, self-reflection, and a willingness to confront his pain, Chris began a new chapter, one rooted in alignment between his inner and outer world. In this interview, you'll learn: How to Embrace Your True Identity Without Shame How to Heal After Hiding Your Authentic Self How to Rebuild Private Pain in Public How to Support Your Children Through Major Life Changes How to Start Over When Your Life No Longer Feels Aligned How to Find Peace Through Forgiveness and Self-Acceptance How to Recognize When It’s Time to Let Go and Move On No matter your past, your pain, or how long you’ve carried it, it’s never too late to begin again. The first step is being honest with yourself. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Find help and support If you or someone you know is struggling or having thoughts of suicide, call or text the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline at 988 or chat at 988lifeline.org . In life-threatening situations, call 911. Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here. What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 03:13 Your Roots Don't Define Who You Can Become 06:19 Is It Safer to Hide Who You Really Are? 10:11 What It Actually Takes to Become the Best 14:32 Finding Yourself After an Identity Crisis 17:27 Letting Go of Shame to Be Your True Self 20:15 Accepting and Embracing Your Gender Identity 22:46 How to Come Out Without Hurting the People You Love 30:21 Choosing Inner Peace Over the Deepest Pain 33:10 Rebuilding Yourself After Grief and Collapse 36:40 Why the Right Guidance Can Change Everything 39:13 Struggling Doesn’t Mean You’re Weak 39:30 Forgiveness: Freeing Yourself from the Past 41:15 Sharing Your Story Could Save Someone Else 44:29 When a New Environment Heals Your Spirit 45:06 The Unexpected Call That Changed Everything 47:29 The Hair Appointment That Almost Ended His Career 52:23 How to Build Authentic Relationships in Your Industry 55:33 You Don’t Owe the Public an Explanation 59:09 Why Love Is Always Worth the Risk 01:01:48 Give Yourself Permission to Walk Away 01:05:35 How to Protect Your Peace in a Loud World 01:10:35 What Do You Really See in the Mirror? 01:12:28 Being the Father You Always Needed 01:19:01 Chris on Final Five Episode Resources: Chris Appleton | Instagram Chris Appleton | YouTube Chris Appleton | TikTok Chris is releasing his debut book, YOUR ROOTS DON’T DEFINE YOU: Transform Your Life. Create Your Comeback, on January 20, 2026. The book is available for pre-order now at the link HERE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:45Jay Shetty?

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• 1:28Jay Shetty?

  and it's clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose. This episode is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. One of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves is the chance to step outside of our routine. Travel is a way of slowing us down and shifting our perspective. And with the Chase Sapphire Reserve card, every journey becomes even more rewarding. Earn four times the points on flights and hotels booked direct. Enjoy access to award winning airport lounges.

• 2:13Jay Shetty?

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• 2:29Speaker 01

  I felt like it would be better for them to have a dad that was dead than a dad that was gay. It's not something I've ever spoken about.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  Chris Appleton is a hairstylist to the stars, including Jennifer Lopez, Kim Kardashian, Dua Lipa.

• 2:44Jay Shetty?

  When did you realise that you couldn't stop hiding who you really were?

• 2:48Speaker 01

  I came out at 26 and a lot of people said to me, well, you must have already known like, and just hid it. And I wasn't aware that I did know. Being a gay child, I learnt to hide myself. When I did hair, there was this whole thing about sexuality. And it's like, oh, you're gay. Being gay must be bad because people are, you know, they weren't saying it in a nice way. Like, you're gay. They were like, you're gay.

• 3:09Jay Shetty?

  It was you who filed for divorce. Everything you've been through, I can imagine that's not easy.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Just because it's not forever doesn't mean it didn't mean something. People say things about you. There's things in the tabloid. I was going through a lot of private pain. What really helped me was not being okay.

• 3:26Jay Shetty?

  You write about the night that you tried to end your life.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  I closed my eyes and this is it. I won't hurt anyone anymore.

• 3:34Jay Shetty?

  We reached out to the kids. They sent us a note for you.

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Oh, God, I don't know what to say.

• 3:43Speaker 03

  The number one health and wellness podcast.

• 3:45Speaker 04

  Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. He won, he only, Jay Shetty.

• 3:51Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose. Thank you so much for tuning into the place you come to become happier, healthier and more healed. Every guest I sit down with has been on an incredible healing journey, whether it's their mind, their emotions or even their soul. And today's guest is someone who's been on an unexpected internal journey because their life is so public and external. Today's guest is Chris Appleton. A renowned celebrity hairstylist, best known for creating iconic looks for the likes of Kim Kardashian, Jennifer Lopez, Ariana Grande, and so many more. Chris is the global creative director for Color Wow Hair and a social media sensation with over seven million followers.

• 4:35Jay Shetty?

  His work is regularly featured in Vogue, Harper's Bazaar, Elle, and InStyle. In his debut book, Your Roots Don't Define You, Chris opens up about identity, transformation, and self-worth. So I want you to support Chris. Go and preorder it right now. Please welcome to On Purpose, Chris Appleton. Chris.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Thank you so much, Jay.

• 4:56Jay Shetty?

  It's great to have you here.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Great to finally be here.

• 4:58Jay Shetty?

  I mean, we have bumped into each other in a million places.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 5:02Jay Shetty?

  Whether it's.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Different cities or.

• 5:04Jay Shetty?

  Cities, gyms in Miami, Paris, LA. And I've always been an admirer of you and your work from the outside. You work with incredible people. They have so much love and respect for you. But I have to be honest and say that when I read the book, I have a different level of respect for you that came from this book because I can see you really want to help people.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 5:23Jay Shetty?

  And I can see that you want to use your journey as a way of supporting other people's journeys. And I find that fascinating because you don't really know that when you follow someone on Instagram or see them. So I'm glad that we get to pull back the curtain on your life and understand you more.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  No, absolutely. I think there's so much about that that we make an assumption of people by social media or just what we see because it's surface level. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think it's so nice to be able to get to know more and just know some of the magic of how things are done and how everyone else can have a part of that. And that's what I hope with the book, that people feel like they can have a part of that and, you know, help make that comeback.

• 5:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And it's so nice to sit with another man from England and think about the crazy journey. We just, we just realized we both moved to the States nine years ago.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  I have no regrets. What about you?

• 6:08Jay Shetty?

  No, me too. I, I love it here. It's been amazing to me. It's been so good to me. I feel like it's been good to you as well.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 6:15Jay Shetty?

  And I'm a Londoner at heart always through and through, but there's, there's a beauty to living here.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, there's so many nice things when you go home, like I just went back and the chocolate, I just always love the chocolate. It's a little sweeter. We have a bit more of a sweet to it.

• 6:26Jay Shetty?

  It's a bit milky, yeah.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  In England, exactly, yeah.

• 6:28Jay Shetty?

  What's your favourite chocolate?

• 6:30Speaker 01

  Um, I just like dairy milk, the, the, the whole milk, dairy milk, yeah. But I'm always, I'm like sitting in the store, just like just looking at all of the, the, I remember, remember pickled onion crisp and like, what's that? And I'm like, oh my god, you don't know what pick, yeah, exactly, all the things.

• 6:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  But, um, no, it's fun to go back, but LA is definitely home now, yeah.

• 6:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. Well, Chris, I wanted to ask you something that I often ask a lot of guests because I think I'm always fascinated by how, who we were places imprints on us into who we become. And I wanted to ask you, do you have a childhood experience that you remember that you think has defined who you are today? An experience or a memory that you have that you feel had some coding into who you've become today?

• 7:10Speaker 01

  You know, it's funny you say that because I have a very distinct memory, but for a long time it was a really sad one. But the more I've understood that memory, the more I realised it was kind of where I was at in my life. And it's sad because I guess it was a, a memory at the age of, it was maybe sort of eight or nine years old. And I remember looking outside the window, I'm, I'm, I come from a big family in the UK, I'm one of five. We were, you know, really working class, if not poor, you know, we didn't have many luxuries. And life was real. It was, it was very, you know, different to LA and sunshine. It was rainy and grey. And I remember sort of looking out the window and I felt like I didn't really belong. I knew I felt different. I knew there was something different.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Like my brothers enjoyed doing football and sports and my sisters liked doing girls' things, like, I don't know, they were playing with barbies or braiding hair. And I kind of fell somewhere in the middle. I didn't really feel like I fit, fit in. I was a middle child also. And I remember just looking out and I felt quite alone. And I think that was the beginning of me kind of abandoning myself in a way to fit in, to fit in with what I think people around me thought I should be or who I was told to be. So that memory was. In one way, it's very motivational now. Now I know what it meant because I can kind of go back to that moment. And I've learned that during therapy and sort of been able to like connect with that inner child, which for so long I ignored.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  But I think for me, it was a real special moment that I go back to because you can kind of change. That you can change what you came from. And that's a lot about what the book's about. It's about how your roots don't define you. And it really is about, you know, we all grow up being told to be something or be someone, or we have influences around us, which kind of lead us into a certain part of our lives. And sometimes we stop and look in the mirror and don't recognize how we got there. Let alone how we look, you know, sometimes I I've worked with clients and I'll say, you've got short, dark hair and and bangs. Why, why is that? And it's like, well, it's just what I've always had. I don't know. I'm like, we ever thought about going lighter and longer? Well, no, not really.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Why not? Well, just because that's not what, you know, they kind of then stop and go, well, why have I never thought that? Because no one has given them freedom to. And a lot about what my job was about is really kind of opening people up. It's it's really starts on the outside as a visual, but then once you start going internal with things and breaking down these kind of boundaries. It's really quite magical what can happen. And that in a nutshell is kind of what I've always done. Gone that little bit deeper. And I guess going back to that childhood memory really helps me. Kind of remember that, that your roots really don't define you and you do have a chance to start again. It's never too late.

• 9:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's such an interesting connection that you made there because most people wouldn't see that you wouldn't, you wouldn't think that. Something aesthetic like that about yourself is so deep rooted, but it is. And all these limitations and blocks and all this conditioning that we all have, whether it's about who you can become, how much money you can make. Who you're meant to be in the world. And for you, you fell in love with the hair quite early, right?

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:16Jay Shetty?

  Like, that was something you discovered.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  Really.

• 10:18Jay Shetty?

  What was the discovery of it?

• 10:19Speaker 01

  I think it was honestly the first time I felt good at something. I was pretty young. I was maybe like nine, 10 years old at a similar age where. I was dyslexics and I really knew, knew what that was then. So you were kind of just told you were stupid. I remember I used to sit in the classes and I was like, please someone answer the question because I did not know what he was going on about. When I sort of started to paint, I noticed I got like a reaction. And then when I started to use my hands and do hair, which was my mum at the time, I realised you had this ability to sort of change the way people felt. I really liked that. I loved that you could transform people. I was really mesmerised by that. But I noticed people reacted different and I felt like that was almost like a superpower. So I just thought, I'm gonna be the best at

• 11:00Speaker 01

  it. If this is what I'm good at, I'll be the best at it and I'll prove everyone wrong, that I'm not stupid. And again, just being conditioned to, I mean, I was pretty bullied at school because of that. And then when I did hair, there was this whole thing about sexuality. And it's like, oh, you're gay. Because no one back then did hair, no one had a job at thirteen. And doing hair was, you know, stereotypically where I grew up, people, you know, said, okay, were you gay? And that was before I really even understood sexuality. I didn't even really consider it. I was just a young guy having a great time. You know, when you're a kid, you're just, you're free. You know, it's great. It's such a good feeling. And then the harsh reality of life slaps you around the face one day. And I remember sort of things, well, bad, that's bad. Like, being gay must be bad because

• 11:45Speaker 01

  people are, they weren't saying it in a nice way. Like, you're gay. They were like, you're gay, you know. People would like spit on you. And I mean, it was bad. I got bullied quite aggressively. And I think that really led me to push and I guess push away from myself. That's, I think, when the curtain started to come down and I really abandoned myself because I started to become a version of myself that I thought other people wanted to see. So talk a little bit more masculine, stand more masculine. You know, you start to become very aware of your mannerisms. Doing hair was feminine, so I kind of kept it to myself and I just kept my head down. I didn't want to tell people about it. And it's really sad because I think being a gay child.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  I learnt to hide myself. I learnt to hide the parts of myself that were authentic. And I adapted myself into being something that I thought other people wanted me to be. And as an adult, what you have to do is then unpick those parts and find out what were the parts that are actually me and the parts that I created for other people. And as much as anything, I'll go back to the book, like, there is stories about my life and as reflection, but it's really about helping people to get back to theirs and unpick it as well. Because sometimes it takes a bit of that work.

• 13:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  And that work can be brutal. It's not the easiest work I've ever done, but I would say the most rewarding for sure.

• 13:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I like, I like the way you drew that, that when you reflect on your past, you've got to pick apart the parts that you made for yourself and the parts that you made for others. That's such a great.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  And everyone has that, you know, if you grow up into a family of religion, or if you grow into a family of different beliefs and cultures, you tend to take them on, even relationships, you know, we look at relationships of like, that's how mum and dad interact and you kind of carry that throughout your life. And it's not until you get into relationships as an adult and you're like, oh, you can do it differently, you know? And they're all the lessons we learn as adults. But not everyone is like, I guess, aware of that. Not everyone is aware that you can change the story. Um, and there's a real freedom to doing that.

• 13:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I want to go down two paths based on what you said, but the first path, before we go down the other, because the other will lead to more different opportunities to talk about. But the first part is, you said you wanted to become the best as soon as you discovered

• 13:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:58Jay Shetty?

  that you could do hair, you're like, I'm going to become really good at this.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:02Jay Shetty?

  What did it take to become the best at what you do? Because you are, you work with the best, you're considered the best by the people that you serve. What did that take? Because I think often when we look at athletes or you look at business, there's people who've told those stories, but when you take something as artistic as hair.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:24Jay Shetty?

  We don't necessarily think about it in the same way.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 14:27Jay Shetty?

  At least publicly, even though it's such an important part of daily life that everyone has, right? And so I want you to walk me through, like, what was that process like? Like, what did that take? What did that look like?

• 14:37Speaker 01

  I think I just was. So determined not to be stupid, not to be deemed as bad or different that I I really wanted to be good at something. And like I say, it's kind of a double edged sword because it motivated me to wanna do better. And my focus really was to just get on it as fast as I could. And I I just put everything I had into hair. Like, I got a job at the age of thirteen and I just.

• 15:01Jay Shetty?

  At a salon?

• 15:02Speaker 01

  At a salon, yeah. And I remember my first day, I remember very clear, I remember, I remember standing against the wall and I saw people walking one way. And I saw them then walk out another way once they had their hair done. And I swear they were standing a little taller. And that, you know, their shoulders went back. And I was like, this is good. I love this. And I was like, I wanna do that. I remember literally thinking, this is what I'm gonna do. And I just liked every aspect of hair. And if I didn't know how to do it, I'd find out, you know, I mean, eventually, as my career progressed and I became top sort of hairstylist, I then was like, well, what's outside of this? So I'd look outside and it's all this thing called editorial hair and this fashion shows and there's, and every, every kind of block was like a beginning again, because no one really kind of like, if you're a salon hairdresser, you're just a salon hairdresser. You can't

• 15:45Speaker 01

  be a fashion hairdresser. You know, they're kind of, there's a little bit of competition. Yeah, totally. It's like, you know, people love to put you in a box. All my life, people love to put me in a box. Still to today, I'm always trying to fight being put out of a box. I don't know if you can relate to that.

• 15:58Jay Shetty?

  I can so relate.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  I think a lot of people just love to put you where they know you can stay. And I I just push myself to know every aspect. And if I didn't know what it was, I remember, for example, I eventually got an editorial job and they wanted a look that I just didn't know how to do. And I I just got in a car, I took myself to this local salon and she did this. It was like this, this like weaving technique of, it's called a basket weave. And like, I would sit there and watch her and just pay this woman to sit and watch. And I'd sit with her doll's head up all night. I don't know, I just, I think I just went above and beyond. I loved what I did. I I still love what I do. And I just, I think that combined with, again, a bit of a blessing and a curse, like a little bit of an OCD mentality where. I wanted it to be good and I could see things. I I I don't just let things go. I can see every detail and every little hair.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  And I think that can combine and just the passion to wanna be good at something just pushed me. And it's funny now because it's only now, I'm forty two, and I look back at videos. I recently just put some things on social media because someone came from the UK with a big box of DVDs. And even I forgot what I did to get to where I've got. Every competition I did and I didn't win and failed and every, you know, educational thing that I failed because of my dyslexia. I just kept bouncing back and the nose, I had people laugh in my face, you know, I remember eventually I got an agent and I was so excited about the next steps and they'd laugh at me. They were like, you know, you just need to stay where you are and keep it real. And they'd send me on a photo shoot for some flip flop commercial.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  I I just, I didn't care. I was just determined and I think you have to have that resilience along the way. I think you really have to have that internal resilience to stay focused and um. It's not, it was never one thing. It was just lots of little leapfrog moments. Um. Everyone thinks it's this big moment. It really isn't. It's just a build. But I would say one of my biggest secrets to success in that area was just to be consistent. I stayed consistent. And when I got knocked down, I got back up and I carried on and I tried to learn by every mistake as I went along. You know, if I if I failed, I was like, why did I fail? And that person went, why did that person get it? And I didn't. I would look and analyze the situation and I'd come back.

• 18:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  And I think that's a lot of what it takes.

• 18:05Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. It's good advice. It's also good to hear that there's no industry in which you just one day get a call from, you know,

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 18:12Jay Shetty?

  the biggest star in the world. It's like everyone's earned their stripes and done the work and it's good to hear about it, whether it's podcasting, whether it's hair, whether it's music and athletes that we've had, it's it's always that, you always hear that same story. But going back to England and talking about the derogatory use of the term gay, I mean, I went to a boys' school.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 18:33Jay Shetty?

  And I think about all the guys at my school that got so bullied.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Really?

• 18:37Jay Shetty?

  Because we went to a boys' school as well.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's like fixating on it.

• 18:42Jay Shetty?

  And now when I look at how many guys in my school were gay but never came out until years later. Some of them at university, some of them much later than that. And I'm just like, wow, they never even had the opportunity because they. Thought immediately that if they were to say that at our school,

• 18:59Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 19:00Jay Shetty?

  They were gonna get bullied for it.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:01Jay Shetty?

  And so I get how real that was at that time especially. And of course, there are still parts of the world where that's still the case. But how early were you sure about that being part of your identity? And were you consciously masking it? Or was it still a discovery of your identity? Or was it like, oh, I know that's true and I'm gonna hide it now, as you said, you had to abandon yourself?

• 19:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:23Jay Shetty?

  Or was it like, I don't really know what that is and I'm I'm discovering and figuring it out. How was it for you?

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I get asked this a lot. It took me a while to understand because in the beginning I I didn't know myself. I came out twenty six and all the people said to me, well, you must have already known like and just hid it. And I wasn't aware that I did know. And I'll tell you now, Jay, like the brain is such a powerful tool and shame is such a powerful tool. And when I think back to that eight year old kid that just felt different and I had to hide it. Like, I feel so sad for that little guy because I really did abandon myself and I think I just I shut it out. I didn't even allow myself to think about it. It was before sexuality was I was even thinking about having sex like so. Anything like that, I just knew it was bad and I just pushed it away.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  So I went through my life, like I said, trying to just be normal. And and as far as I was aware, it was fine. And it's not until you really, you have these moments where you stop at life. Life makes you stop sometimes. If you don't choose to stop and look in the mirror, sometimes life makes you stop. It's an, you know, something you're losing a family member. It can be anything, but sometimes you you have to sit with yourself. And I don't know that ever allowed myself to know.

• 20:35Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  Um, I never had the space to express that. And that's why I'm hoping with like the book that I can help someone that feels not seen. And someone that is going through a hard time or someone that is successful, but miserable when they get home. Because I never got that opportunity and finding that makes such a difference. It makes a difference in the job you do, the relationships you have, the friendships you have, and just generally who you are as a person.

• 21:01Jay Shetty?

  I think that's what people don't realize. I love that point you just made that. It actually impacts all other parts of your self-expression.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 21:09Jay Shetty?

  Because it is your identity, it's it's.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 21:11Jay Shetty?

  It's who you are. And so if you're hiding that part, you're hiding all these other skills and talents and abilities. I I know because one of my closest friends came out when he was thirty.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:22Jay Shetty?

  And he just and he grew up in a Muslim background. And so that was extremely hard for me.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 21:28Jay Shetty?

  Because of the religious pressure and it was such a journey for him. And he thinks about who he became after that age.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 21:34Jay Shetty?

  And it's almost like everything went in its favor after that.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:37Jay Shetty?

  Whereas up until that point, it always felt like everything was working against him. But he like you also felt that he had to hide. And and, you know, not be honest with himself.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think my whole life changed when I authentically. And it took a few years to get to that point. It took therapy, it took understanding, it took being with myself. But part of that was moving to L A. And I think the great thing about moving to L A was I didn't feel any shame.

• 22:01Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 22:02Speaker 01

  Because I'm also a dad and I hold that very close to my heart. My biggest focus in life is being a great dad to two kids. And any parent out there can connect to that. I will always put them before myself. The difficulty with shame is it's very different, difficult to heal when I wasn't just feeling my shame, I was feeling shame for them. I was feeling shame. Yeah, I I felt a lot of shame. And moving to America, the part of it that became easier is because an introduction could be like, hey, I'm Chris. And it's like, I'm gay, you know, and and no one blinks an eyelid. But where I grew up in the town where people knew me, hey, I'm Chris. And it's like, I I didn't feel confident to say I was gay.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  And if I did, they'd be like, oh, he used to be, he's got a family, he's got kids. Oh, my God. You know, and there was always this secret, this conversation was just this. It felt dark still. It still felt like people wanted to keep putting me back in the box. So, you know, it was kind of part of moving to America was the first time that I could experience what it was really like to come out without all of the outside noise, because I'd already made a life for myself.

• 23:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  And, you know, I get it. People, when there's a secret, people want to talk. People love to, you know, when when there's a secret, people want to know the answer to it.

• 23:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, talk to me about that time in your life, because. When you started dating the mother of your children.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:15Jay Shetty?

  And that experience, you were married for what, like ten years?

• 23:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, nine years.

• 23:18Jay Shetty?

  Nine years, yes. It was a, it's a, it's a long period of time.

• 23:21Speaker 01

  We were never married, but we were, yeah, nine years.

• 23:23Jay Shetty?

  Together, committed, yeah.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it was ama-, I generally believe I was meant to meet Kate. We were together for nine years and it was magical nine years. It was great. I had two kids. And I honestly thought I had it all figured out. I remember at the weekend, I'd be doing, I'd be doing the man's day, I'd be painting the fence. I'd be like fixing, you know, I was just doing all the things that I thought I was supposed to do as a man. And when I did realise I was gay, I mean, God, it came crashing down.

• 23:49Jay Shetty?

  Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Value can be found anywhere, even in the clothes sitting untouched in our closets. That's where Vinted comes in. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell clothes you no longer want and get more value out of them. Whether you're running out of space, moving, or simply updating your wardrobe. Listing items is a quick and simple process. And once something sells, Vinted creates a prepaid shipping label for you. And the best part, there are no seller fees, so you keep what you earn. It's a simple way to clear out your closet, be less wasteful, and maybe make some extra money along the way. Give your clothes a second life with Vinted.

• 24:33Jay Shetty?

  Download the Vinted app for free to start selling with no seller fees. So you keep every dollar you earn. This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with wifi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favourite podcast. Choose a seller or North East Regional and get there without the stress of getting there. Visit amtrak.com to plan your next trip. This episode is brought to you by Orange Theory Fitness. One of the best investments you can make is in your own strength.

• 25:16Jay Shetty?

  The choices you make today can help shape how you feel for years to come. Orange Theory Fitness provides a one hour workout to build strength, burn fat and build muscle with an expert coach guiding you every step of the way. Head to orangetheory.com/OnPurpose to learn more and get your first class free. Orange Theory Fitness, helping people live longer, more vibrant lives. Terms and conditions apply. See webpage in studio for details.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  Cheers.

• 25:44Jay Shetty?

  And back to our episode. What do you think it was about that moment that allowed you to be conscious that you were? Like you said, for so long you were hiding it. You were suppressing it. You were putting aside, you're doing all the quote unquote things you're meant to do as a man. What was it that brought that up for you? When you felt like, like you just said, you felt like you'd figured it all out. Your two beautiful kids you loved, you know, partner that you loved.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  Because from the age of eight to the age of 27, I'd held my breath and I could finally exhale. I couldn't hold my breath anymore. I couldn't do it. I tried, I kept trying to like, and I couldn't. And once I put my, my tiptoes into breathing and how good that felt, I couldn't stop it. But then came the shame of like, well, I'm going to hurt all these people I've created this life with. So I kept pulling back and so I just had to let go.

• 26:34Jay Shetty?

  How long did you carry that, that shame of, I know, but I don't want to tell them because it will hurt them and break what they've built?

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Once I knew, I had an experience, which I talk a bit about in the book. And it wasn't anything heavy, but I was, I sat, when I was a kid, I was sat down. I grew up in Northern England, there wasn't, well, middle to north and it was kind of, being gay wasn't really a thing. There was a gay pub in town, but it was on the outskirts and the men that went were quite flamboyant. It wasn't really. Spoken about Princess Diana was on the news shaking a man with AIDS without gloves. And that was headline news because, you know, like, could she get AIDS from shaking this man's hand? People didn't know enough about it and they knew about AIDS and it was kind of told to me that gay men get AIDS.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  So I was also fearful of that. Someone that's prone to O Z D, like I just felt very conscious of that. So I had an experience that I kind of met someone, we became friends and it never really went beyond friendship. But he told me one day that he was HIV positive. I remember he didn't even live near me. We had a phone call conversation daily, but I became friends with him and I it was the first time that I was kind of like, I like this guy, like I really like him and I kind of was trying to understand it. So it was a slow process. And then he told me he had HIV and I was like, well, I can't, I'm good, I'm absolutely good. So I literally just cut it off. And even though I hadn't done anything, I felt like, oh my God, could I get HIV? Is this a thing? I don't know. It was really, really scary. And then I guess over the process of the next year, I think,

• 28:06Speaker 01

  once, like I say, you kind of put your foot in the water, it was just, it was hard to go back. And then once I actually did meet someone, yeah, that was it. There was, there was no going back.

• 28:16Jay Shetty?

  That period of your life, I can imagine is, when you look back at it now, is probably one of the most difficult times because it's almost like.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  No, it got way harder.

• 28:26Jay Shetty?

  Which we'll get to, but that moment of, I can finally be honest with myself, but I don't know how to be honest with the people that I love.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 28:36Jay Shetty?

  That's like a, there's one thing of like, oh, wow, I can finally be honest with myself. That's huge.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:42Jay Shetty?

  But then it's always harder when you're trying to express it to other people, I imagine.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 28:47Jay Shetty?

  What was it like telling your partner at the time?

• 28:50Speaker 01

  I told initially my partner and that was a process. And I also had to respect that she needed to go through her own grief.

• 29:00Jay Shetty?

  Were you aware of that at the time when you told her?

• 29:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Wow, that's mature.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Because I loved her. I really loved her. And I didn't want to be gay. I didn't want to be different. I was, I went back to being the kid at school. But once I told her, I kind of just went on automatic. I told my family. And everyone needed to process it the way they needed to process it. And I just had to be respectful of that. You have to let people go through their own grief. I can't control their emotions, nor do I want to. I think it's really important for people to feel and go through the process.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  But the hardest part was telling my kids and I think mentally for me, I couldn't really ever get my head around that. I've never actually spoke about this. I didn't think I ever would, but I do feel ready. I feel ready to talk to people because I feel like hopefully it will help someone else that's going through a difficult time. But my job as a dad, I felt, was to protect my kids. Going through what I went through as a kid, being bullied was horrible. My childhood was, a lot of memories are not great ones. So the idea of bringing that to my kids was really painful to feel that they would get bullied because their dad was gay. I know the things that kids say and I know how mean they can be. And I just didn't want them to ever have

• 30:18Speaker 01

  that shame that was put on me, onto them. And in a way, I felt like, I felt like a disease. I felt like it was like a cancer. I wanted to cut it out. I was like, if I could just get rid of that, then I could just be a normal dad for them. Because that's what they need, you know, I just, I just, I felt so selfish putting myself first. So eventually, people started to talk, as they do. It was a small town and me and Kate decided to tell the kids. So I couldn't even say the words and I think maybe a lot of people can relate to this. Initially, saying the words, I'm gay, is a challenge. Because once those words are out, it's done. I actually didn't say it. The

• 30:57Speaker 01

  mother of, Kate's mum actually said it. And then I just saw these two beautiful kids who were like six and eight and they were just, they were upset because they knew I was upset and they were confused. And all of a sudden, I just felt like I'd, I felt like I'd just messed their life up. And I felt like I'd failed as a dad because my job was to protect them. And if anyone ever hurt them, I would protect them. But I was the one hurting them. And I couldn't understand that. I also just couldn't hide I was gay anymore. I was so exhausted from it.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  So after telling them, it just a confusion killed me. And my son said to me, you know, it does that mean you're gonna, you know, have your your arm like this? Like, cause he was so young and innocent and kids at school would do. There was already things said, you know, and I was like, no, you know, I'm just me. I'm I'm the same. I'm not gonna change, but that are you gonna change? Are you gonna be different? Yeah, I kind of just shut down and I left and I left not because I was three, but I I left because I felt so much shame. And I got in the car. I drove for a couple of hours. I drove for quite a long time. It felt like five minutes. I just felt like I needed to get away from them. I just I felt like I was contagious.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  And I.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  Sorry, I've not really spoke about this before, so.

• 32:23Jay Shetty?

  You don't need to be sorry.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  Um.

• 32:25Jay Shetty?

  Take your time.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I. I felt like it would be better for them to have a dad that was dead.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Than a dad that was gay. And so I. I brought some painkillers. I brought a bottle of alcohol and I checked myself into a hotel. And the whole time I had a picture of the kids. Um, it was like this computer case it had and they're smiling on it. They wrote a message on it. I it was silly. It was just a little computer case, but I was just holding it the whole time. Uh, I'd slept with it a lot throughout that period. Just I just wanted to protect them, you know? And um, I took the tablets and drank the alcohol. I rang Kate. And I apologized for the pain I'd caused. And I closed my eyes.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  And.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  I just thought this is it. This is it. I won't hurt anyone anymore, you know, I won't bring any more pain. And maybe I'll stop hurting too. The rest was a blur. I remember sirens and stuff and I just then remember being in hospital and I could hear voices and I remember thinking was, is this it? I might, you know, where am I? And something changed then. And it was really powerful because I realized I couldn't hate myself anymore than I had. And I couldn't try and stop being gay anymore. I did everything with my powers, my whole life,

• 33:57Speaker 01

  creating a different world that I thought everyone wanted me to be and take all the boxes. But I knew I had to reveal the truth. And so in that moment, it was really quiet. It wasn't dramatic. But I just remember thinking, well, what about if I just surrender? What about if I'm just gay and I just be that? And I don't really know where to begin with it and I don't know where it's going to lead me. But it has to be better than what I've been doing. And in that moment, something changed. I decided to live and I think that's the moment where I went back to that eight year old boy

• 34:40Speaker 01

  standing at the window and allowed himself to be seen. That was the beginning of it all, really. So although it was one of the darkest nights of my life, I think it was a turning point.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  And like I say, it's not something I take lightly. I think it's not something I've ever spoken about. But I hope other people in watching this can maybe feel heard or seen and find the help they need. Or even maybe it's a parent that is struggling, understanding their child, to understand how dark it can be when you're left in silence and when you don't get to express who you truly are. Or even if it's the kid that did the bullying at school and see how painful it can really be for someone.

• 35:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, Chris, thank you for sharing that because it's.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  I just didn't feel like I could write a book. Talking about my story, I think there's this perception of me that people see on social media. And it looks like I have my life together. It looks like I look pretty polished. I think people tell me that, you know, I mean, I work with amazing women, you know, and life looks glamorous. And from the outside, it probably looks like I've got it all together. But there's a very different side, and that's what I want to talk to people about, and that's what I want to help people with. And it's not just about my journey, it's about helping people realize theirs.

• 35:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, I really appreciate you sharing it because we're seeing male suicide rise.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:05Jay Shetty?

  We know that carrying around emotions like shame and guilt for long periods of time is not healthy for someone, even if they don't, you know, try to commit suicide. And

• 36:17Jay Shetty?

  I think having people like yourself who've been there, who are open enough to share how you get there, and it's needed right now. It's needed right now. I help a lot of men.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:28Jay Shetty?

  A lot of people, but definitely a lot of men right now who need it as well.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  And I think also just like stereotypes and boxes that we love to put people in, it's like you don't have to fit a particular mold. I think you are who you are, and you should have time and space to develop that and what it is. And, and I'm someone that spent my life trying to avoid that. And then I had to do the really painful part of unpicking it and finding out what I'd created for everyone else and what was truly me. And when I did that, there was a piece to it.

• 36:56Jay Shetty?

  Were you relieved when you woke up in the hospital?

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I don't think I ever wanted to die. I wanted to kill the thing that I felt that was destructing my life. And the thing that made me feel different as a kid, the thing that made me not blend in with all the other boys and girls, like I wasn't like all the regular guys. And I wanted to not be different. Now I love being different, you know, as an adult now, I've realized the beauty in being different is such a special thing, to be able to have that talent, to be different, to, to let it grow. And when it's not suppressed, my God, like your whole world can change. My whole, whole world really did change. And it can be such a beautiful thing. And I'm not talking about success, I'm talking about inner happiness. And there's a lot of successful people out there, and they're not happy, you know, a lot of people, some unsuccessful people, and they're not happy. I think true happiness on the inside is really.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  I don't know, it's a really powerful tool.

• 37:44Jay Shetty?

  How did your family react to obviously coming to the hospital, the kids, like now it was almost like there was in that time, the first shock that you're gay and then there's this shock of nearly losing you or there being a critical situation. How did you, how did Katie, the kids and family react?

• 38:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think there was really ever an understanding. I don't think anyone really knew. I think everyone was just trying to get through it. Cause everyone was trying to process it themselves. I think everyone had questions and everyone's like, well, did he always know? And like, was that my fault? And did I say something when he was a kid? And when I told him about like gay men and sexuality? And I think a lot of people were questioning, I don't know, did they know? Did they see something? And I think everyone was just trying to process something. It didn't really matter to me in terms of like, that was the time I came back to myself. So there was, there was a change in my brain where I really just was like, I'm going to allow myself to be. And I'm going to be respectful of everyone else and I'm going to be supportive because this is who I am. But I'm gonna be, you know, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna allow Chris to be and I'm a gay man and that's it.

• 38:48Jay Shetty?

  And I imagine at that time, the shame that had been hanging over, obviously the kids went back to school, they were now hearing the same stuff. It's almost like you said, everyone wants the answer to the secret. Now the secret's out.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  Totally. People love a secret.

• 39:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  People love gossip, you know, I get it. Like we all do it. Everyone loves it. Oh, what did you hear? You know? But I think once the secret's out, people are, oh, well, you know, it's just not as exciting. It's all right, well.

• 39:11Jay Shetty?

  And so you felt that kind of you were able to move on from it too?

• 39:14Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And it's, listen, it wasn't an overnight sense. It was, it was just a mental change for me. I still had to go through the process.

• 39:21Jay Shetty?

  What was that process like? Because it's like, like you said, you bottled it up for that many years. It comes out in this extremely dark way for you personally. Shame, guilt. Thankfully you're still alive.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:36Jay Shetty?

  But what did that process actually look like? Because like you just said, and I don't want anyone to hear this and go, yeah, oh, wow, one night just changed, you know, like I don't want them to have that perspective either because that isn't true from the book and I'm, I'm excited for people to read. I'm. Encouraging people to read the book.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:54Jay Shetty?

  Because I think when they engage with it.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:57Jay Shetty?

  And your sharing of it, they'll get the context that you won't be able to realise, like, this wasn't an overnight change. It wasn't a one night switch.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 40:07Jay Shetty?

  But walk me through the process you had to go through over the next few months and years to rebuild. Because you said you almost came home to yourself.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 40:15Jay Shetty?

  But then you had to build this new house.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  Like anything, starting anything new, it's it the unknown. And so I think I took every day as it came, every hour as it came. I've always been a big believer in therapy and it's so helpful to be able to. And I think it's, I also think it's something that if someone is struggling, that if you can and you have the resources to, you should use. Because I think it's a really healthy way of being able to be and really be in the moment and really feel things. And I think working with therapists to try and understand, even making sure my kids were okay with them seeing a therapist and Kate did. You know, I I think everyone was on their own journey, but personally for me, it was just taking it every day as it came. And there were good days and there were bad days and there were days I still felt really shameful.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  And there were days I didn't feel so shameful. But I think as with anything and when you're grieving something, and I really was grieving a loss, because I was grieving the loss of who I used to be. And so in a way, it was like a death because I was letting go of that. I was letting go of this image that I created, this man that I created.

• 41:17Jay Shetty?

  And what came with that man, the family, the kids.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  Exactly. And so then I had to, you don't have it all figured out. I'll be honest with you though, Jay, I still don't have it all figured out. I wake up every day and I'm still figuring it out. I think as humans we are, I'm grateful for that. Because that means I'm always learning and I'm always growing. And if I'm growing, then that that that makes me feel happy because I'm alive.

• 41:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  You know, no one ever has it all figured out.

• 41:38Jay Shetty?

  Me too. I fully agree. I don't, I mean.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  People think because you've got a book or because you've had some success at work or, you know, you got it all figured out. No one's got it all figured out.

• 41:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  But I think for me, I've always been. Really interested in other people's journeys and inspiration and understanding how someone else took on. And listen, my journey is not for everyone. Everyone's different and everyone has their own journey. But sometimes you can just take something from it. And, you know, for me, that's why I did the book was I was trying to help people come back to themselves. And I don't think I can do that if I'm not telling them my story.

• 42:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  You know, to say I had a really dark moment too. A lot of people have had dark moments, you know?

• 42:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, but it's it's brave and important to share it. And it's one of the reasons why I've been talking about the difference between Western and Eastern ideologies, because in the West you have this before and after.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:29Jay Shetty?

  So it's like, I used to be like this, now I'm healed, I'm fit, I'm amazing. And the reality is the Eastern worldview would say everything's cyclical. You're always two steps forward, three steps back.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 42:41Jay Shetty?

  You're always maintaining, you're always sustaining. You don't just, it's almost like you don't just end up with a six pack. It's like, that's something that takes daily work and

• 42:48Speaker 01

  One week is there and the next week I'm like, what happened?

• 42:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And that's, and that's something that's physical that you can see and it's tangible.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 42:55Jay Shetty?

  What to speak of emotional grieving and growth. And so that idea of before and after, it doesn't really exist. It's like before what and after what?

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 43:04Jay Shetty?

  The reality is you're constantly growing, each and every one of us, and me included too. I, I think even with the work I do, I definitely carry that baggage sometimes of people thinking I'm teaching from the place of perfection. And it's like, well, I'm not trying to, yeah. It's like, actually, I'm trying to do the opposite. I'm just trying to be a friend who's nudging you in the right direction. And

• 43:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:23Jay Shetty?

  By the way, I do this as much for you as I do it for me.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 43:25Jay Shetty?

  Because the more I talk about these ideas, the more, and I'm sure you felt that with your book, the more you're talking about these ideas, the more responsible you feel to actually live them and breathe them for yourself.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  And honestly, I feel like if there was something like this when I was a kid, when I was an eight year old kid or 12 year old kid at school, and I heard someone maybe talking about that experience, probably could have saved me going in, in the direction I did and, and made other choices, you know, but that's life.

• 43:50Jay Shetty?

  I'm doing some research for my new book right now, and I was researching the, I was speaking to the head of suicide at Harvard.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:56Jay Shetty?

  And he told me two things that stayed with me. One was that One of his friends committed suicide, even though he knew his friend was the head of suicide at Harvard.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:07Jay Shetty?

  And never told him anything. And so it just shows how hard it is to even talk about it with someone.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 44:13Jay Shetty?

  Even though your your friend is an expert.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:15Jay Shetty?

  And so just because you're a therapist or a coach or a guide or it's not easy for people to open up about these things.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  No, I've found it incredibly difficult to sort of just talk about it, but I hope that in doing so, that it will help someone else.

• 44:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  Um. And it's not to say any of the things I've done are right or wrong, but it was my journey and it led me to where I'm at now. And I think if you can take some of the shame away from people struggling in life and, you know, I think someone like me where people perceive me to have it all figured out. Maybe to know that I've not, and there's been some really hard times in my life, enables people to be able to talk about theirs too, and feel free to be able to express them.

• 44:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  And that there isn't so much shame around it.

• 44:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it doesn't make you weak.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 44:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it doesn't make you weak that you're having a tough time right now, or you're struggling to pay the bills.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 45:02Jay Shetty?

  Or you're struggling to take care of the family you love.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  And everyone's challenge is different, you know, and that's the beautiful thing of life.

• 45:08Jay Shetty?

  Did any men come back from your childhood over time that you feel reconciled their relationship with you or?

• 45:17Speaker 01

  You mean like the people, the bullies or whatever or?

• 45:19Jay Shetty?

  Bullies or even, yeah, bullies, family, like anyone that you think was negligent maybe or unaware at that time. Did you ever have any good conversations with any men as life went on?

• 45:30Speaker 01

  My brother actually is, actually recently, we were very different. He was in a very different place in his life. And I was just a kid trying to grow up, you know, he was a good 10 years older than me, maybe 12 years, he was 12 years older than me. He actually met me in London, I was there for some shoot and he said, I wanted to meet him. All right, well, okay. So we met and had dinner and he actually apologised and he sat down and he said, you know, I was really shit to you. I was really shitty, brother. And I don't think I realized how much pain you were in. And I think he was in his own pain. Cause everyone's got their own journey. And you know, I found forgiveness in that. I found forgiveness and it was actually really, really special. Like I say, that's what I mean. It wasn't an overnight thing. This is literally 10 years later. Like my brother's apologized, but I also am mature enough and have done the work enough

• 46:15Speaker 01

  to recognize that he was going through a difficult time. He used drugs and he was going through his own thing. But you know, his sort of acknowledgement of that still stopped me in my tracks and was like, yeah, that was tough, but I forgive you. And I think forgiveness is also a beautiful thing and letting go and moving on.

• 46:31Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  I like to move on. I like, I like to go right through something and then let it go. And I think that's a beautiful thing. It's brutal. It's really hard, so easy to avoid. So many people avoid stuff, complete avoid and completely just let's pretend it's not happening. But for me, what works is to really feel it and sit in it because then I feel like I can let it go.

• 46:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I mean, it's really mature to have that worldview of recognizing that everyone's going through their journey and their pain at the same time as you are.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:00Jay Shetty?

  And it's really hard to compare pains because you can't. They're all so unique.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  And everyone's valid.

• 47:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and everyone's got their own journey, but to accept that requires a lot of, a lot of maturity and depth. But first, here's a quick word from the brands that support the show.

• 47:17Speaker 05

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• 47:48Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. I know how important every hire is for a business. If you need to make the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed sponsored jobs helps find quality candidates when you need the most. You can reach who you need based on whatever criteria you're looking for, like skills, certifications, or location. In fact, people are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, companies like yours made 27 hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast.

• 48:31Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. We talk a lot about intentional decision making, and that extends to the practical stuff too, like making sure your coverage actually works for your life. State Farm is there to meet you where you are, and they know how sweet it is to feel good about your decisions. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. All right, thank you to our sponsors.

• 49:17Jay Shetty?

  Now let's dive back in. How does it feel now that you've said it out loud and talked about it? How does that feel in your chest, heart?

• 49:25Speaker 01

  I mean, probably as you could tell as I was talking, I was getting quite tight chested. If I ever even really talked about it, my chest would get very tight. I'm grateful for that. I hope I never get used to it because it was a very extreme thing in my life. And I'm an emotional guy. I love the people I love. And but I've learned not to feel shame anymore. And I think part of dealing with shame is being able to talk about it, being able to acknowledge it, being able to look at it in the mirror. And I felt like sharing that is empowering to me and hopefully others. I feel lucky to be able to share my journey with other people. Hopefully, you know, someone finds it interesting or can give them. A different perspective on their day and in their life. And I've done that in like a outward

• 50:09Speaker 01

  sense of a visual with people know that with my job. But I think the internal part is just really where it starts.

• 50:18Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  Cause when you marry those together, that's when you have your real power.

• 50:22Jay Shetty?

  I mean, as we've been talking about this in this journey that none of us are perfect and it still shows up. How does, how does shame still show up in your life today? Like, how does it still have that stronghold in your life?

• 50:33Speaker 01

  I woke up this morning, I'm like, I cannot talk about that. I can't talk about that on the podcast. Had this complete like panic. I woke up this morning, I'm like, oh my God, I can't talk. People are gonna think I'm crazy. Like, that was a really dark time and it was a secret. It's a secret. And then I had to stop myself and I'm like, ah, it's a secret. It doesn't need to be. Yeah, I'm not that person anymore. No one is the people that we were in that time. We've all moved on and evolved. And I'm in a better place in my life now. And I think with wisdom comes, you know, like you've been able to educate people and share people. That's like me in my hairdressing career, learning all these amazing techniques, keeping all to myself. And everyone has said to me before, like, you really wanna share your techniques? People might copy you. And I'm like, God, I hope they do. I hope they have great hair.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, everyone, everyone deserves it. I'll think of some new techniques. I'm on to the next thing.

• 51:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 51:20Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I mean, look, we're human beings. Like I said, none of us have it figured out. But I always have great people around me that'll be like, Chris, remember you helping others? And I'm like, yeah, that's what I wanna do, you know?

• 51:30Jay Shetty?

  As your journey grew, did you find you'd share these stories with clients and talk to people that you were close to and?

• 51:35Speaker 01

  No one really knows this about me today. So I think probably a lot of people might, you know, be like, okay, I didn't know that part of you. Because let's face it, in human interaction, most of the time it's a, hi, how are you? You look great, you know, can go, oh, yeah. And then we move on. We don't always open up the blinds and, you know, pull people in. Because it's difficult to do that, you know? Even on social media, people say to me, oh, you know, you look like you have this polished social media, you bring people in more. It's difficult sometimes to do that when it's a camera in front of you. And I think I've always been very one on one, that's what I do. But that's why I wanted to package it up and put it into something that people could read and take in them themselves.

• 52:13Jay Shetty?

  I wanna know what happened because this was all still while you were back home in England.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:18Jay Shetty?

  And so this isn't even the career journey that we see now. That hadn't even began then.

• 52:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:25Jay Shetty?

  In terms of the public part of it. How soon after did you end up moving to America and did everything shift?

• 52:33Speaker 01

  I stayed in, I I moved to America when I was thirty one, so it was four years later. And during that time, I'd started to travel backwards and forwards. I was kind of commuting backwards and forwards. Um, I started working with an artist and, you know, they travel around. I was kind of doing different types of hairdressing work. I remember I got a call once I was in London and I had an email actually that came through and it was from J Lo's team. And I remember thinking, oh, wow. But it was too much to kind of take in. I was like, J Lo's team, it's like, are you available? You know, we wanted to see if Chris Appleton was available for a Vegas show. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then I thought, well, how does J Lo know who I am? It was the beginning of social media and I was posting, not really know what I'm doing.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  But I was just posting all the different hairstyles I was doing. So I guess when I look back, my brand quite quickly was apparent. I was always changing up. I'm not your beachy wave kind of guy. I like to do a look, do the next one, move on, that's next. I was very excited by hair and I was just posting all that. So, uh, I kind of thought, well, that's cool, but I'm in England and that's Hollywood. Like, it's like the land of dreams, you know, it's far, far, far away. And, uh, they weren't gonna fly me out, so I was all right, well, I just left it. And I thought, maybe this is just like a, maybe it's like a fake email. You know, you get a lot of random emails, hey, did you say, madam, you've won ten thousand? And I'm like, oh, have I? You know, I don't reply to them anymore, but for when I was younger, I used to. So, uh, I left it and a few months later I got another email.

• 53:59Speaker 01

  I thought, well, maybe this is a thing, maybe like, maybe I could go to L A. You know, it it seemed like the big shining star and I was like, that's where a lot of stars are. And I loved the excitement and as a kid, I was always really sort of. Mesmerized by the power of transformation. Back then it was Madonna, you know, she would have a different look per album. And I always loved how each look really, it started a trend. People would start to wear it in the streets. And it was like a whole vibe. So I thought, well, maybe I go to LA. So I pretty much decided to do it. I packed two suitcases. I had a whole apartment in London that I'd worked very hard for. Small basement one, but nevertheless it was mine. And I packed two suitcases and I moved to LA.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  Without even a plan? No. And you didn't have a client contract or? No, nothing. I had a dream. I was, I was like. How many followers did you have at this time? Four or five thousand. Right, right. Oh, wow. So really early days. Yeah, really early days. But I did have a hope and I, I thought, what's the worst that could happen? I'll come back if it doesn't work. So I remember I moved to America and for the first three or four months I didn't do anything. I'd spent all my money. LA is really expensive. And I remember thinking, I'm gonna have to go back home. And then I got a call to do Christina Aguilera's hair on The Voice, which I speak a little bit about in the book. It was an experience that didn't go so well. It was like my one opportunity and it seemed to go very wrong. You felt you didn't?

• 55:25Speaker 01

  It went wrong to go right. I mean, I was such an excited guy. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do my thing. It's The Voice. Everyone watches The Voice. But what you have to understand is when you live in the UK, it's like this many people see it. When you live in the US, it's like the world sees it. It just, it was bigger. Everything was bigger. And I remember going to The Voice and there was like three hours to do glam. And the makeup artist went in, saw the trailer and I just sat outside. So I was like, okay, I'll just wait for a bit. And an hour went by and I was like, well, maybe she don't need too much done to her hair, you know? And then two hours went by and I'm like, well, maybe like. The hair's probably done and I'm just gonna be furnishing it, you know.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  And then the last twenty minutes before the live show, I'm like, well, I mean, so I'll just go home. And they called me in. So I thought, well, you know, she definitely got her hair done. It's gonna be good. Right? Twenty minutes. I mean, what else can it be? So I go in and it wasn't good. It wasn't done. It was ready to be done. So she's like, what do you wanna do? And I was like, well, what I really wanna do is have two hours to do your hair, but whatever, we got.

• 56:33Jay Shetty?

  Were they waiting for you to go in or no?

• 56:35Speaker 01

  No, I think she was just like doing makeup, probably got chatting and there was no ill intention, right? It was just like, whatever, you know, like you're in the chair every day, you know, and then I went in, I don't know. So I did that thing the hairdressers do where you stop moving the hair around. Have you ever sat in a chair and a hairdresser's just kinda like, they're just kinda touching it and moving it around.

• 56:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  It means we don't know what we're doing. It's just, we're just kinda just like hoping something's gonna happen. So I said to her, like, would you, have you ever tried a wig? Cause I thought that would be great, cause it'd be fast. And she's like, I don't like wigs. So I'm like, of course you don't like wigs. And then I really lost myself and I was like, why would you like anything I've got to do? Like, you see me. You see the little boy standing at the way, you see little Chris. Like, what the am I doing here? I'm a joke. I'm a joke. Like, who, why would I, why am I? And I felt like that shame again and I felt small, so small. And I just had this moment, it was actually the mother of my kids, Kate, who we are still best friends and she has always been so supportive throughout my career. I called her on the way and she said to me, look, Chris, if you don't make this work, you're gonna have to come home.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  Cause I have responsibilities, I'm a dad, I have the kids, you know. And I remember thinking, if I don't make this work, I'm gonna have to go home. So I thought, you know what? Let me do me. And if she doesn't like it, that's cool. We're just not a match. But if I don't do me and do everything I know, I'm thirty one, I've spent my whole life learning this craft. If I don't do me and walk away, I'll always kick myself. So I said, well, you know what? You've never tried my wig. Let's try it. She was, all right. So I put it on her head and she was like, oh. And I'd finessed wigs. I got really good at them because I used to work with cancer patients. So I know all these little tricks. I kind of like from one area of my life then turned into making me good at it for stars. And so I put it on her head and there was no time. She was like, I like it. So I put it on. It was like no time. She literally got up and ran off onto the, onto the show.

• 58:18Speaker 01

  And then she's on live TV. And you know, that was a time of social media because I was also very nervous because well, everyone's gonna have an opinion on this. And when it's good, it's great. And when it's bad, it's not. Yeah. Because when it's, when it's bad, you'll know about it. Yeah, when it's good, it's okay. Like no one will say anything. And it's bad, it's yeah. It's bad. So um, I remember she came off the stage and she, it was like a little break and um, she was talking to someone like this and she looked over at me and she went, everyone likes your wig. And then just carried on talking. And in that moment, I knew that it, and it was great. Like she looked great. And then we worked together, you know, it was the beginning of my career. The wig fell off. They look great. I mean, I don't want people to think I, I'm being arrogant in telling that story because I had put so much of my whole life into my craft.

• 59:03Speaker 01

  I wanted to learn it inside out, upside down, left to right. I knew every aspect of hair. For me to be able to be able to stand there and know that it was the right thing to do. I wasn't being pushy or anything. I just knew that this was right. And therefore, if it, if it didn't work, it's like a relationship. If it didn't work, it's okay. Yeah. I tried. If I don't do what I know to be true and good, then I'll always kick myself and I'd hate that. And I think part of my coming out story and you know, seeing my full self again was not ever letting myself not be seen. And you know, I, I wanted to present as, as I was and, and the knowledge I knew. And that was, it was a success story and that was the beginning of my career in Hollywood. It just rolled on. Once people saw her hair, because we did this kind of really icy wig and then I did these hoops in the hair and then

• 59:47Speaker 01

  I started working with Ariana and then Kim and then Adele and it was J Lo and it just, Katy Perry just, just evolved, you know. Because people, who's doing that? Who, that's cool, you know. Pop stars or artists started to change their hair up. So it's like, okay. So it was very fast.

• 1:00:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  That was very fast, but I was very prepared because I'd spent thirty one years of my life learning it.

• 1:00:07Jay Shetty?

  It's really interesting because I'll tell you later, I have a very similar story of because when I first moved out here, everyone was asking me to teach them how to meditate or

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:15Jay Shetty?

  coaching them or guiding them spiritually on their life. And so I was meeting a lot of people and our work, funnily enough, is similar, even though it's very different.

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:22Jay Shetty?

  It's very intimate, it's very one on one.

• 1:00:24Speaker 01

  Hundred percent, yeah.

• 1:00:25Jay Shetty?

  Really present in someone's life.

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:27Jay Shetty?

  And I had a similar experience, but the thing I found as well was if I was trying to be what they wanted me to be, I couldn't be that. I just knew how to do what I do.

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:39Jay Shetty?

  And that's really hard when you feel inexperienced.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:42Jay Shetty?

  You feel like an imposter.

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:44Jay Shetty?

  And you feel like you don't belong here, which is how I felt too.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  Totally, which we all feel.

• 1:00:48Jay Shetty?

  Which we all feel.

• 1:00:49Speaker 01

  Even when you have success or whatever, you know.

• 1:00:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and you come and you're like, oh no, but this is a bigger world. It's a different world and it's different eyeballs. And then you're just like, no, actually I have to trust the work that I've done up until now. And that doesn't make me egotistic.

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:01:02Jay Shetty?

  It just makes me experienced.

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:01:05Jay Shetty?

  I've got to trust the experience I have.

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:01:07Jay Shetty?

  And most importantly, it makes me me. So I love that message from your experience there, which was if you hadn't done the wig.

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:14Jay Shetty?

  It would have just looked terrible.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally.

• 1:01:15Jay Shetty?

  Because you wouldn't have been able to do anything with it in that time.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:01:18Jay Shetty?

  And so you had to trust your instincts, which was my experience says, let's go with the wig.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally.

• 1:01:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's amazing. And then obviously you became such good friends with Kim and everyone. It's like, what's been your favorite part about building these amazing relationships? Because the work is so intimate. It is so connected to them.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  I'm so grateful to work with everyone I've worked with. I always just feel very lucky to work in their presence because they're amazing in what they do. You know, they're an artist in their realm and to be a part of it, I just feel very grateful. And you know, Kim, I've become very good friends. We have so much respect for her. To see her up close, to see, you know, the world sees one thing, they see Kim Kardashian. I don't really see her like that. I see her as Kim, you know, and she is a mother, an amazing mother. She is a businesswoman, you know, to see what she did with Skims and build that and. Just to see how she is with everyone that walks in the door, you know, she speaks to, whether it's an assistant, a lighting person, what she says hello to everyone, introduces herself. She doesn't have to, but she's just a great person.

• 1:02:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, she's world class.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  A really, really great person. And so I think organically, you spend so much time together with the people you work with. Obviously, there's a friendship there and I'm just incredibly grateful I've got to work with the people I do and, you know, see them in the light I do. Cause I guess not everyone does. Cause again, we all make assumptions. Everyone's just seen a vision or an image or a quick clip on TV or a clip here on social media. And we all make assumptions is what we do. It's okay. But I just feel grateful to have seen that side that maybe others haven't and.

• 1:02:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I'm sure you get the last all the time. What do, what do people like really? I'm sure you get that all the time from. People back at home as well, like, oh, what do people really like behind the camera? And it's, I always find it so refreshing to be able to be like. No, a lot of the people you watch are, they're actually really wonderful and nice.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:03:00Jay Shetty?

  There isn't some big conspiracy, you know, it's just, they're just wonderful humans who are really nice and they're really great at what they do.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  What they do.

• 1:03:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, what they do. And, and yeah, they treat everyone with respect and it, and it isn't as juicy as you want it to be.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  No, totally.

• 1:03:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. So with your journey with that piece, it feels like, I mean, you said it earlier, you were like, it only gets harder.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:22Jay Shetty?

  And it feels like even though now you were having this success and that was moving fast and. You have become the person you've become where you are the go to person in the city, but across the states for all of these people to turn to, whether they're musicians, models, talent. And then I think now it's been like just a year from your divorce again.

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:44Jay Shetty?

  And that was with a very public relationship. Was that the first time you'd had a public relationship?

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  It was definitely the first time that I'd experienced that. Magnitude of people being so invested in my private life.

• 1:03:58Jay Shetty?

  What was it like having such a public romantic relationship as someone who for years before that? Let alone having a public relationship, you weren't even in a relationship with a man.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  This is the first time I've ever spoke about this. And I think people have this perception from social media, probably like I said, that. I have it together. I work with these amazing people. Life looks glamorous. So from the outside, it probably looks like I've got it all together.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  But the truth is, especially during that time, I was going through a lot of private pain. And then you go with all the online speculation part, people say things about you, there's things in the tabloid and people have an opinion on your life. And that can be incredibly intense, especially when you're just trying to deal with things. I think for me, what really helped me was not being okay. And, you know, I've always believed in therapy and I worked with a therapist to really sit in my feelings and really go through them and understand how I felt. And that is really brutal to go through it. But for me, coming out the other side, there's a part of you that feels like you can, you know, reflect

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  on it and move on. One of the biggest lessons I learned is finding alignment. From what I do is all about visual, you know, it's what I've done my whole life. And even what people see of me is this visual representation of Chris Appleton. But I think for me, there was a real peace in finding alignment and inner peace on the inside. And like I said, that wasn't an easy process. But I think when you align those two, when you genuinely feel good on the inside, I think that's when your real power comes in place. And I think, you know, just because there's a headline about you doesn't necessarily mean you have to go and explain to everyone about your life. And I think for me, I really wanted

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  to deal with it with peace and deal with it my way. You know, it's the interesting thing about living in the public eye is people have an opinion and that's okay. I don't mind people saying good and bad things because you put yourself out into the arena, you're gonna get there. But I think for me as a dad, I wanted to protect my kids. I always want to do that. And I'm very aware, any relationship I go into, there will be a conversation around that. And so I think for me, making sure that I had that internal alignment, which I'd never had my whole life, finding that and being comfortable with that and finding happiness was a really beautiful thing. And, you know, you can love someone and then not be a forever happy ending. I think you learn so much from it. I think any relationship I've ever gone into, I've learned so much from it. I've learned.

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  What's important to me in terms of boundaries, in terms of how I want to be loved, how I want to love. And that's a beautiful thing because it means you're always growing and evolving.

• 1:06:53Jay Shetty?

  Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. If you're talking about quality food, you can't forget Whole Foods Market, who've been holding themselves to the highest standards since they opened in 1980. That means you'll see thousands of organic products across their stores, from the produce department to the aisles. It also means you'll never see certain ingredients. They've banned artificial sweeteners and colors, high fructose corn syrup and more, so you can shop with peace of mind. Shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online. This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Home should be a place that feels like a sanctuary, a space that truly reflects who you are.

• 1:07:37Jay Shetty?

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• 1:08:22Jay Shetty?

  and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 1:08:35Speaker 06

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• 1:09:05Jay Shetty?

  Thanks for taking a moment for that. Now, back to the discussion. It was you who filed for divorce, right? Like, you were the one who ended it.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:14Jay Shetty?

  When you look at that in the perspective of the whole conversation that we've had and everything you've been through, I can imagine that's not easy again.

• 1:09:21Speaker 01

  No, but I think, again, like, it doesn't mean you don't learn something about yourself. And just because it's not forever doesn't mean it didn't mean something. And it's a bit like gonna buy a house. Like, you know, we could go and look at houses. I particularly like bright, lots of space. I don't like confined and dark. Some people do. And that's okay. It's just not aligned. And I think one of the biggest things I realized about any relationship I've been into or go into is the importance of alignment. And I think for a long time I didn't have that. And I think finding that within myself has been special. It's about growth. And like I say, as long as I'm growing and evolving, then I'm alive and that feels great.

• 1:10:02Jay Shetty?

  Why do you think you didn't have that alignment, maybe when you met? And because it moved fast, right?

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  Look, moving fast doesn't always mean you're reckless. I think sometimes it means you're hopeful. And I think any relationship I've ever been into, I've gone into with an open heart. And I have no regrets about that. I think we shame people too much for leading with an open heart. And I think the sad part about that, especially when it doesn't work out. And I think the sad part about that is you can learn to retract and protect yourself. But I would rather love and fall than to never feel anything at all.

• 1:10:37Speaker 01

  And I think I'd rather experience something and feel alive than to never put my foot out in the water. And I think as long as you're growing and evolving from it and things don't always go to plan, I think as long as you go through it and go through the process of healing, I think that's really important.

• 1:10:55Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  Then I think you're doing all you can. I don't know. I I feel like I I felt like a responsibility to just really look at everything. As any situation I've ever been in, I've always tried to look back and reflect of like, do I feel alive? I'm happy with where I'm at in my life, how it is visually and how I feel internally. And, you know, if not, being able to sit in that and and sit with it and process it and go through it has been a really magical part because it doesn't really matter what anyone else says.

• 1:11:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:22Speaker 01

  I know my truth and I I feel happy. I I really value the people that are in my life. I have an amazing family. I've worked really hard for my career. I love the people I've supported family and I'm really grateful for that.

• 1:11:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  An ending doesn't mean it didn't mean anything. It just means it ended, you know. As many relationships I've been through in my life, friendships, relationships, they've ended. And I've tried to learn something each time from that experience.

• 1:11:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I really appreciate your take on not closing off and not kind of building a wall to. And you are right, we do make people feel bad for falling in love or moving fast or whatever it may be. And and I think also, coming from a South Asian culture, I've seen the dangers of demonizing divorce.

• 1:12:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:11Jay Shetty?

  And looking at divorce as a failure or a negative thing, when actually I look at my community and I'm like, I wish this person would get divorced and this person would get divorced. Because because you know the truth and when they open up to you.

• 1:12:25Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 1:12:25Jay Shetty?

  And and so it's almost, it's it's interesting. We've made people feel bad for. Maybe opening their heart and falling in love.

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  Falling in love, of course.

• 1:12:34Jay Shetty?

  And we also make people feel bad for.

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  And I get it, like, I get it. And people love to say, like, oh, I knew, you know, that would happen and that wouldn't last. But I don't know, it's just who I am. I go in wholeheartedly into every friendship, every relationship, you know, every family member. And I've learned to protect myself and also honor myself. Like I say, I keep mentioning alignment, but it really is a key part of like my healing is to be able to leave a situation when it it's not right anymore.

• 1:13:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Why did it feel, again, important for you to talk about it now? As part of this journey with the book?

• 1:13:09Speaker 01

  I think there's just always, I think every part of my life, if if there's something in the tabloid or people wanna know, I think I would like to sort of share my experience so people can relate and maybe not feel so alone. My biggest goal is to make people realize that it doesn't matter where you came from. It doesn't matter what the situation was that you got stuck in. You can move on, you can you can evolve your life and you can have your comeback at any age. At any age, it's never too late. So many people think it's too late. They're not twenty, they think they're done. And I think, I don't know, some things are for a season and some things are forever, like, that's life. Life is life. Love is messy. People are complicated.

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  We all bring our old trauma and baggage into a relationship, whether you're willing to admit it or not. And like I said, that that's just life. It's about alignment. And if something's not aligned, it's okay, whether it's a relationship or a friendship or a marriage or whatever it is in your life. I think so many people get so fearful of not moving on or change. Change is so scary to people. Change, I know by just people changing their hair, how terrifying that'd be. They're all people are gonna recognize me or people are gonna I'm like, yeah, that's great. See a new you. See, actually, a you that's this is actually gonna be great for you. You have a whole new look. You could have been stuck with that old hairstyle that you showed me a minute ago your whole life. You know what I mean? Like, thank God so much.

• 1:14:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, yeah, thank God. Yeah, literally.

• 1:14:38Speaker 01

  You know, it's like, but if you don't know, you don't know. At the time, I bet you thought you were killing it.

• 1:14:44Speaker 01

  I straightened my hair. Why do you straighten your hair? Oh, because someone told me to. You have beautiful, natural texture. Someone bringing you back to that.

• 1:14:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  Like, I don't know, it kind of helps you form who you are. Whereas maybe you conform to society because society said you should straighten curly hair.

• 1:14:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:58Speaker 01

  I don't know what the answer was, but we're all we're all conditioned to that, following the lead and following the pack. And you don't always have to do that.

• 1:15:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:06Speaker 01

  To not do that, you have to have some balls. And like, I I think part of finding that strength is to be able to sit with yourself. And I can honestly say any situation now that I'm ever in, I can sit with myself and I can process it. And it's not always easy. In fact, doing the work is brutal. It's never easy. But the last thing I feel like I need to do is tell everyone, because it's it's my journey, it's my story. And, you know, when I'm ready, which is why I'm doing the book now, you know, you can share it.

• 1:15:36Jay Shetty?

  How did you protect your peace at the time? Because I imagine it's not easy when you're going through it, headlines, whether they whether you take them seriously or react or not, they still hurt and everyone's asking, you know, and I know what it feels like where you're sometimes I find that when you also have family that's not connected to the industry.

• 1:15:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:54Jay Shetty?

  I'll always get a load of messages as well from back home, from friends and family going, oh, I just saw this thing about, you know, whatever. I just saw and I'm like, guys, like, I'm dealing with it, like, you know, it's this is normal in my world now.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:05Jay Shetty?

  But it's not normal for them.

• 1:16:07Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:16:07Jay Shetty?

  And I can find that that's hard sometimes. Was there any was there any of that feeling of that kid looking out the window? Like, was that any of that coming back through this as well? Or how did you protect your peace at that time?

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  I I think there's a lot of private pain, like I say, no one is immune to it. But I think for me, working with like, I have an amazing therapist I've always worked with and I I'm so pro.

• 1:16:29Jay Shetty?

  Is it the same person that you worked with the whole time?

• 1:16:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:32Jay Shetty?

  Wow, for how many years?

• 1:16:34Speaker 01

  Maybe the la- well, since I moved to America, so nine years.

• 1:16:37Jay Shetty?

  Wow, that's impressive.

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  And for me, therapy just enables you to like, sit in it. Therapy really helps you to do that. And therapy really helps you to move on and and let go of situations that, you know, no longer serve you.

• 1:16:52Jay Shetty?

  So it's been around two years now. Where has your headspace at now?

• 1:16:57Speaker 01

  I think I just feel grateful to have had the experiences I've had in my life. And to have the knowledge and the wisdom to be able to process them. And let go of it and and move on. And I think with every chapter of my life, I'm so grateful I had that. Each and every experience, good and bad. Cause it led me to where I'm at now. I I think I'm in a a good place, not every day. But more so than I ever have been in my life where I've abandoned myself. And it's such an easy thing to do. And I'm just so aware of doing that now. It's like I can't not see it. Once you see yourself, you know how many people look in the mirror every day? You you look in the mirror, maybe, I think the average is twelve times a day.

• 1:17:42Speaker 01

  They say on average is an hour a day from brushing your teeth to, you know, checking your hair, whatever it is, having your haircut. An hour of your day looking yourself in the mirror, so many people see a reflection. Not everyone looks at themselves. We just look, but no one actually really looks. And part of my job and my journey has been, I guess, showing people the real mirror so people can really see themselves and be seen. And a lot of people are not seen. And when you really see people and you break it down to like, why have you always done this? Why have you always repeated this behavior? Why have you always got yourself into the same situation? Why have you got yourself into the same relationship? There's a pattern to it. And once you see the pattern and once you break it down, you can change it. That's really empowering. I did it with hair for a long time.

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  But I didn't realize I was also doing it in an internal way. And everyone can relate to the people saying your hairdresser is your therapist. I didn't even know I was doing that.

• 1:18:35Jay Shetty?

  It's such a real experience.

• 1:18:36Speaker 01

  Part of it. The difference is, I used to do it with everyone else and I'd see them. And you know what? Never saw myself. I didn't see myself for twenty seven years of my life. I didn't allow myself to look. It was easier to make other people see themselves than for me to look at myself. When I saw myself, I couldn't not see it anymore. I couldn't not see who I was and who I'd become. And that defining moment in my life changed every decision moving forward. And so if I'm a bad friendship, if I'm in a bad relationship, if I'm in a bad work environment, I'll leave it if it no longer serves me. And if I feel like I've done everything I can to be the best person I can. And no one's perfect. Humans are messy, that's okay.

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  But I've learned to respect myself enough to be able to, you know, go back to that little boy at the window and say, it's okay. You know, you don't have to be in that anymore. You don't have to feel alone. You can be seen. And I hope that's what everyone does and maybe finds a bit of that when they read the book. And obviously it's called Your Roots Don't Define You. It's about roots and it's a double edged sword. But it is such a powerful thing that if you actually stand and look in the mirror and look at yourself, this book is for anyone that looks back and is like, is this it? Or anyone that looks in the mirror and is like, I don't really know why I look the way I look. Or anyone that does have some success, but is so miserable.

• 1:20:01Speaker 01

  Or some more times, just people thinking there must be more to life. Hopefully this will help people feel like they can change that and they can have their comeback and they can transform not only the way they look on the visual, because everyone knows I do that. But if they can do it internally, I'm telling you now, their life will change. And I hope people can take what I learned, because I feel like everyone deserves to be free.

• 1:20:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:28Speaker 01

  You know, I see people in the supermarket, I see people walking in the street and I'm like, I wish you knew what I knew, you know? And I think it's just really special to be able to share that journey.

• 1:20:36Jay Shetty?

  What do you see in the mirror now? When you look in the mirror, you see yourself?

• 1:20:39Speaker 01

  It depends on the day. Some days it's all right and other days, um, you know, like, I'm still like, wow, I really should lose five pounds. Do my hair look a bit better blonde? You know, you read a comment on social media like, you look way better blonde. And I'm like, oh, I have a better blonde. You know, it's all right. We all have those oysters in the head. I hope they're always there. It keeps me alive. It keeps, I just laugh at myself now. I think I try and treat most things with humor. You know, if I do see a headline about myself, or if I do see someone say something, I'll try and laugh it off. Cause what else are you gonna do? You know, it's like, I probably couldn't have done that before. If I went back ten years, I probably couldn't do that. I probably would have gone crazy and been like, oh my God. Now I'm like, it's okay. It's just someone else's opinion. That's all right. You know, I can actually laugh at it. I'm like, well, you know what?

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  I probably do look a bit like I need to lose five pounds. Or I don't know, I can, I can relate to it. I'll just at least laugh at it. We were talking about red carpet pictures. They can make you crazy. You know, like you go, you think pretty good about yourself. Yeah, I'm good. You know, I feel like I look good. You take a picture. Is that what I look like?

• 1:21:40Jay Shetty?

  Oh man, tell me about it.

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  Oh my God, I saw this picture of myself and I was like head to toe in brown and for some reason the background was red and my hair was kind of the same color. I look like a log. And that, you know, is this text chain where I'm texting my helmet. I look like a log. What the? And I just laugh at it. You know, it's, it's, it's all right. It's fine. It's just nothing's perfect.

• 1:21:56Jay Shetty?

  You get over it after you realize there's more bad pictures of you on Getty than good ones. And then you go, all right, I'm good with it.

• 1:22:02Speaker 01

  And that's the same with like a headline or whatever. I'm like, all right, it's cool. You know, fine, whatever. It's, I mean, it's not easy. I'm not, I'm not saying I laugh everything off at all. I'm, I have, I'm a dad and my number one goal is to protect my kids, you know, because they're gonna see everything. My family see everything. But I've also learned to be able to know that if I'm aligned, sometimes I have to go back to that alignment and have to sit back in it.

• 1:22:28Speaker 01

  I'm okay.

• 1:22:29Jay Shetty?

  What, have the kids read the book?

• 1:22:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, they have.

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  Well, I think it's kind of for the, for them, it's interesting because I'm dad. I think one of the proudest moments of my life is the fact that. They have been through so much on this journey with me, but they can still look at me and call me dad proudly. And that means everything to me. And I don't wanna have any secrets. I wanna share my journey with them. And as difficult as some of those topics are, I'd rather show them and say, that was really hard. And I moved on. And this is where I'm at now. And I didn't just move on because like it was easy. I moved on because I went through it and it was brutal. And it was challenging, but do the work, you know, and it will lead you to a better place.

• 1:23:17Jay Shetty?

  We, we reached out to the kids and they sent us a note for you.

• 1:23:23Speaker 01

  To my kids, really?

• 1:23:25Jay Shetty?

  And so there's, there's one each and I'm gonna ask you, I haven't read them yet, so I'm gonna hear them for the first time too. Can I ask you to read Kitty's out loud?

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:23:36Jay Shetty?

  Can you read it out for us? Cause I've not, I've not read it either, so I wanted to save it for you.

• 1:23:41Speaker 01

  There are so many things I wanted to say over the years, and sometimes I don't know how to put them into words. But today I just want to tell you how proud I am truly to be your daughter.

• 1:23:52Speaker 01

  You've been my example of strength, compassion and integrity for as long as I remember. For every chapter of life, you've shown up with grace and honesty. You've made sacrifices that I'll never fully understand. And you've given me love in a way that made me feel safe, valued and seen.

• 1:24:12Speaker 01

  Even now, watching you open your heart up and share your stories to the world, I'm constantly inspired by your vulnerability and courage. And that's rare and a beautiful thing. You've given me so much more than I could ever thank for. Your love has shaped me and your belief in me has carried through. I love you so much. And I'm forever proud to be your daughter, love Kitty. Oh God, I'm shaking.

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  Oh God, I don't know what to say.

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  Oh, that's how you get me, my kids.

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  I'm just, I'm, I'm just so grateful that

• 1:24:57Speaker 01

  I have them and, and that they've been a part of this journey. And like I said, the biggest achievement in my whole life is that they can call me dad and, and, and say it with pride. Cause it's been so many times I've not felt proud of myself and I, I, I've not been kind to myself. And I, I think a lot of people can relate to that abandonment of themselves. And yeah, having them is is the greatest gift.

• 1:25:25Jay Shetty?

  Beautiful letter. And this one's from Billy.

• 1:25:27Speaker 01

  You know what? I, I remember that night telling them about, you know, being gay. It was especially for a boy, there's so, it's kind of what guys say, you're gay, you're gay. It's always pinned as a bad thing. So I knew he was going to face so much going back to school of people talking and people whispering and people saying stuff to him. They both have gone through so much they never let me see because they knew I, I was going through my own pain. So like, you know, this means a lot. Okay. Dear dad, where do I even start? Um, one of my first memories as a kid is you dressing up Superman to surprise me on my birthday. I thought I'd just met my hero.

• 1:26:14Speaker 01

  I didn't realize it then, but as I grew older, I came to see the real superhero wasn't the costume, it was the man inside. You went from cutting hair in a small local salon to taking a massive leap and moving across the world with nothing. And somehow across the chaos, you built a life out there. You've worked with Hollywood stars, become a businessman, appeared on TV, and now even written a book. And through all of that, you're still the same guy who makes people laugh and lights up every room and who does everything he can to make the people around him happy. But, but what sticks with me the most isn't just what you've accomplished, it's what you've taught me. He's shown me how to be confident myself and not to care what other people think. And you've taught me how to stay motivated to reach for the stars.

• 1:26:59Speaker 01

  And most importantly, you've taught me how to be respectful, kind and caring and be un-proud to be.

• 1:27:07Speaker 01

  Keep doing you, Dad. Love from Bay. Oh, God. Wow.

• 1:27:13Jay Shetty?

  I'm nearly into this listening. It's so beautiful, man. It's.

• 1:27:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's really special.

• 1:27:19Jay Shetty?

  It's amazing. I feel so proud to have to raise two kids who love you that much. That's pretty special.

• 1:27:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you know, any parent listening knows that their only goal is to make sure their kids grow up with the least amount of pain. And we all know the harsh reality of life. You know, when you're a kid, you're so innocent and life is so free. And as we grow older, there's so much baggage thrown at us. And I think the only thing you can do is try and understand it. And I spent many of my years, like I said, trying to unpick what didn't belong to me and shake that off and shake that package off. And if I can save them, if I can save them having to go through some of the struggles I went through

• 1:28:07Speaker 01

  because I didn't allow myself to be, then I did okay with that, you know? All right, should we move on?

• 1:28:14Jay Shetty?

  I'm so, no, Chris, I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful to you for, you know, your time and energy writing this book. I love about how you talk. When people dive in, they'll learn about the personal hatred that we all have inside of us. They'll learn about how you talk about how shame lives in the shadows.

• 1:28:30Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:28:31Jay Shetty?

  They'll learn about this whole journey of what it means to make a comeback and um.

• 1:28:35Speaker 01

  And also to realize that it's never too late.

• 1:28:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:38Speaker 01

  It really is never too late. And sometimes we spend years of our life trying to figure that out. But once you have that realization, and hopefully the book will be that realization, that it isn't too late. And maybe a few footsteps into going into the right direction to change things.

• 1:28:52Jay Shetty?

  Chris, we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five.

• 1:28:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:28:56Jay Shetty?

  These questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:29:00Jay Shetty?

  So.

• 1:29:01Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 1:29:01Jay Shetty?

  Chris, opportunities in your final five. Uh, question number one is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  Live and let live. I think everyone's experience is different. If there's one thing I've learned in this time on earth is that everyone's going through something. Everyone has had heartache. Everyone has had trauma and different baggage. And everyone is going through some things. I think to try and. Remember that and let people, you know, live and let live, you know, and be. We're so judgmental sometimes and we, like I said, love to put people in boxes. And that's something that we all do.

• 1:29:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  If you're aware of it, you can understand and be more forgiving towards people.

• 1:29:47Jay Shetty?

  My second question is, what is the worst advice you've ever received?

• 1:29:51Speaker 01

  I guess stay in your lane. I think I've been told so much in my life to fit in a box. There's no boxes you need to fit in.

• 1:29:59Jay Shetty?

  Uh, question number three, your favorite look you've ever done for Kim and J Lo?

• 1:30:05Speaker 01

  Easy. Uh, Kim's Met Ball, um, she did the Mugler look. It was like the finger waves look. And J Lo's Super Bowl. Everyone, I think unanimously, they tell me they're my favorite.

• 1:30:14Jay Shetty?

  But those are your favorites too.

• 1:30:15Speaker 01

  They're everyone else's favorite.

• 1:30:16Jay Shetty?

  What are your favorites? Your favorites, yeah.

• 1:30:19Speaker 01

  Listen, I'm going against the grain. Uh, everyone's gonna come for me, but I love a blonde Kim. And taking that platinum was a whole thing. So probably a blonde Kim. I love that. Um, and then J Lo, I don't know. I really like it when we did like a short, we did a short hairstyle for her on the cover of a law. And I loved it. Um, just cause it was so different. I love seeing someone really take on a different character and a different story and just try it out, you know?

• 1:30:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:41Speaker 01

  Fearlessly.

• 1:30:42Jay Shetty?

  I love that. Uh, question number four, what do you see when you look at the inner mirror now? So you told us you, on the outside, sometimes you're like, oh, five pounds, blonde hair.

• 1:30:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:52Jay Shetty?

  What does the inner mirror look like?

• 1:30:54Speaker 01

  I think I see a guy that doesn't always have it together, but absolutely tries his best to be the best version of himself.

• 1:31:06Speaker 01

  Primarily to inspire my kids that they can do the same. And now this book, so people feel like they can share that journey with me. And I, I wanna hear of a people's stories. I wanna hear of a people's journey. My greatest pain growing up was that no one spoke. No one spoke about it. No one spoke about their experience. And I think the more people that speak and share their stories and their journeys, the more we can all learn. And accept and grow.

• 1:31:30Jay Shetty?

  Well said. Uh, fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:35Jay Shetty?

  If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

• 1:31:40Speaker 01

  My one law would be that everyone stops, looks in the mirror and just says.

• 1:31:47Speaker 01

  Is this enough? Is this what I wanted? Is this where I'm at? And if so, great. But at least just to stop and really look, how did we get to where we got?

• 1:31:56Jay Shetty?

  It's good.

• 1:31:56Speaker 01

  To realise that if you want to change, you can. Because like I say, I've always done that with my hands and sitting in the chair. But I realised there was this whole world that people don't know about. But once you know, you can't unsee it.

• 1:32:10Jay Shetty?

  Chris Appleton, the book is called Your Roots Don't Define You. Everyone who's been listening and watching, I cannot wait to see what you're taking away. I want to see all the TikToks, the Instagram reels, the stories. I love seeing what you extract from these conversations, applying in your own life. If you've had a friend or family member that you haven't even known what to say to, because they've been on a similar journey, send this episode to them. I think it's going to help a lot of people on their personal journey of transformation and reflection. And make sure you keep coming back. Make sure you subscribe so that you never miss out on an episode, because it's stories like this that we built this platform for, where people can come and talk about the ups, the downs, the real healing, and what that actually looks like.

• 1:32:52Jay Shetty?

  And I highly recommend you go and grab a copy of Chris's book, Your Roots Don't Define You. It's available for pre-order right now as we're speaking. Chris, thank you again so much for trusting me, for trusting the platform.

• 1:33:06Speaker 01

  Thank you for what you do, Jay.

• 1:33:07Jay Shetty?

  Being so open and honest.

• 1:33:09Speaker 01

  It's a real privilege to be here and share it with you, because I feel like you two have shared your journey and it's inspiring to a lot of people. So you're a big inspiration to me, so to be here is very honoured to thank you for your time.

• 1:33:21Jay Shetty?

  I genuinely have so much respect for you to be able to talk about some really, really difficult stuff. And I think in the world right now, this message is really, really needed. There's a lot of people that this book, this interview is going to help. And so thank you, and I'm so grateful to you for using your platform to spread this message. You could talk about your life, you could teach people how to build a big brand, you could teach people to do so many things with the fact that you've told. Them about your truth and how they can find theirs. It's a really beautiful offering and service. So, thank you, Chris.

• 1:33:52Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:33:53Jay Shetty?

  Thanks so much. Thank you. If you love this episode, you will also love my interview with Kendall Jenner on setting boundaries to increase happiness and healing your inner child.

• 1:34:04Speaker 07

  You could be reading something that someone is saying about you and being like, "That is so unfair because that's not who I am." And that really gets to me sometimes. But then looking at myself in the mirror and being like, "But I know who I am. Why does anything else matter?"

• 1:34:16Speaker 03

  Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig. On October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:34:32Speaker 08

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stop, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 1:34:37Speaker 03

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:34:40Speaker 08

  I'm not the first then.

• 1:34:41Speaker 03

  Digger, see the trailer online, only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R, under 17, not admitted without parent.

• 1:34:46Speaker 09

  Espolon Tequila. It arrives in a cloud of feathers with a cry to wake the dead. Espolon Tequila. Balanced, delicious, perfect for nights out, nights in, and people who like to drink tequila. Just add ice, lime, and your mouth, then hold on tight. 100% agave, 0% eagle. Espolon Tequila. For a real margarita, ride the rooster.

• 1:35:10Speaker 10

  Espolon Tequila, 40% alcohol by volume, 80 proof. Copyright 2026, Campari America, New York, New York. Drink responsibly.

• 1:35:18Speaker 11

  Every mile matters. Whether you're driving your dream car or your daily commuter, the Mobile One team knows that. It's why we created Mobile One Advanced Clean Motor Oil. It cleans your engine in one oil change and helps extend engine life, delivering performance, protection, and cleanliness for vehicles of all ages. All to help keep your engine running like new. Whatever you're driving, visit mobileone.com/advancedclean to learn more.