Stop Asking For Permission

Julie and I are back with yet another installment of Ask Me Anything, a twist on my typical long-form interview format where Julie and I engage you — the listener — by addressing the topics and questions you want discussed. This week's AMA explores: * releasing the need for permission to live your life * empowerment via “choosing yourself” * practicing creativity in all things * confronting your fear through action * removing fear-based stimuli from your life * managing criticism * overcoming judgment and resentment * combating addiction by prioritizing sobriety Special thanks to Farmer Diddly, Nathan & everyone who contributed to this week’s questions! The show concludes with Beloved, written and performed by Julie — aka SriMati– accompanied by our sons Tyler & Trapper Piatt. I sincerely hope you enjoy the conversation. Are you waiting for permission to chase a dream? Why? I would love to hear your thoughts in the comments section below. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Speaker 01

  The resentment and the judgment we're projecting at others is, in fact, the resentment and judgment that we have for ourselves. And that is the greatest violence, to inflict that upon yourself. So by releasing that and by choosing to look at the good and choosing to hold that vision of the highest expression for yourself and for someone else is a great act of love.

• 1:32Rich Roll?

  That's Julie Pyatt on this week's Ask Me Anything edition of the Rich Roll Podcast. The Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:52Rich Roll?

  Hey everybody, what's happening? It's Rich Roll, your host on the podcast. Back at you for a second episode this week. Another installment of Ask Me Anything with Julie Piatt. Say hi.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Hi, Rich Roll.

• 2:08Rich Roll?

  How are you?

• 2:09Speaker 01

  I'm back. You can ask me anything.

• 2:12Rich Roll?

  I plan on asking you many, many things.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  Anything you haven't asked me in 16 years, you can ask me today.

• 2:18Rich Roll?

  Right, well, I'm glad that you're sitting across from me today on the show where I probe the minds and the personalities of the outliers. You're an outlier.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  I'm a way outlier.

• 2:29Rich Roll?

  And the paradigm breakers. You're a paradigm breaker.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  Definitely, definitely a paradigm breaker.

• 2:33Rich Roll?

  And the big thinking, out of box minds. Would you consider yourself one of those?

• 2:37Speaker 01

  Yes, I would.

• 2:38Rich Roll?

  Large personality?

• 2:39Speaker 01

  Not that large.

• 2:41Rich Roll?

  No. Across all categories of excellence and positive culture change. Why do we do this? To mine the tools and the insights and the principles that can help all of us unlock and unleash our best, most authentic selves. That is the theme of the show. Did you know that?

• 2:57Speaker 01

  I did. That's what we love about it.

• 3:00Rich Roll?

  I know. Well, listen, guys, I appreciate all of you for tuning in today. I realize that there is so much great content out there, more and more with each successive passing week. Lots of demands on your precious attention, so I greatly appreciate you guys taking a flyer on us for tuning in, for subscribing on iTunes, and for subscribing to my weekly newsletter. And I also want to thank you guys for always using the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com for all your Amazon purchases. If you click through the Amazon banner ad at richroll.com, or you can just bookmark

• 3:40Rich Roll?

  it to your browser, that way, when you purchase something on Amazon, it will just, Amazon will kick us some loose commission change, and that really helps support the show. So, we really appreciate that, you guys.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Yes, thank you.

• 3:55Rich Roll?

  So, what's going on? Well, first of all, why don't we do a little housekeeping? Today's show is brought to you by...

• 4:08Rich Roll?

  So lots of interesting questions flowing in our way. And it's been two weeks since we've done this, right? Because last week, the second episode was the altature, cross-cast, dinner party, tea-drinking situation, which people seem to enjoy. So it's been a little bit since we sat down and did this. The first kind of inquiry that I want to get into is an amalgam of a lot of emails that come in that are kind of on the same theme. And the basic idea is people are reaching out and they're sending emails in and they're saying, "I want to do this thing," or "I'm asking you a specific question," whether it's

• 4:50Rich Roll?

  about career, or fitness, or some specific athletic goal. "Can you provide me some resources to get there?" Or, "What do you think about this career change that I'm contemplating," etc. And when I read these, I realize that quite often, the answer to these questions is really basic and could be figured out in probably two minutes through a simple Google search. So when I see these questions, I'm not inclined to reply. I'm like, "You could find that answer in two seconds." So when I read between the lines, though, what I'm intuiting from these inquiries is a couple of things. The first thing is, I think these people know that they could find the answer easily.

• 5:34Rich Roll?

  So they're really just wanting to connect, right? They want to connect with us. They want to get some feedback. They want to get some encouragement. And in terms of that encouragement, it's almost like they're seeking for permission. Like, if you or I were to say to them, "Yeah, go for it," or "You should do that," or, "Yeah, you know, there's nothing stopping you," or something like that. But I think implicit in that is this kind of conscious or unconscious desire to sort of get permission, right? As if like... You or I are empowered with giving somebody permission to do what they want.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  As if we should be telling anybody what they should be doing.

• 6:19Rich Roll?

  Well, first of all, it's not incumbent upon us to tell anybody what they should do with their life, right? But also, and this also hearkens back to the Altucher podcast, because he's all about choose yourself, right? So, so why are you seeking permission, right? This is your own journey. This is something that you have to figure out for yourself. And there's nobody truly who is standing in the way between you and doing what it is that you feel strongly about doing with your life. And we're in a period of time, it's an unprecedented kind of moment right now, where we have the tools and the resources via technology to really kind of create what we want to create.

• 7:01Rich Roll?

  You know, this, this, this kind of moment has never happened in history. Traditionally, if you wanted to create something, whether you wanted to make a record, or make a movie, or write a book, or whatever it is, whatever kind of creative outlet, and also with respect to profession, you needed to get the permission of the gatekeepers, right? A record label has to say yes, an agent has to say, your book has merit, you are a writer. You know, a movie studio has to buy your script, or something like that. But you don't need any of that anymore. You know, and I think that, that, that applies also to whatever you want to do creatively with respect to creating community, or expressing something that you're passionate about. There's nothing in between you and the doing, right?

• 7:45Rich Roll?

  It's a matter of just beginning that process. So it's not about getting permission from us, or from anybody else that you're looking up to, or seeking advice from. I think the message that I'm trying to put out there, and, and kind of what I'm trying to express and advise is, just begin, right? Just begin.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's true. And I mean, I think that, I mean, I can understand people wanting to, you know, have someone to, you know, like a sounding board, you know, like somebody to sort of bounce things off of. And, you know, as human beings, we all, we need support, we need community, and we need, we need some, you know, some sort of collective tribe around us that, you know, allows us to, to proceed, especially with, you know, when you are stepping out of the paradigm, or you are, you know, breaking out of the status quo, or leaving the corporate job, or saying no to standardized education, or choosing yourself over what your parents wanted you to do, or possibly what your parents and you spent a lot of money,

• 8:54Speaker 01

  you know, getting a degree for. So I think that, I think there is a need, you know, to be encouraged and to be supported in making those steps. However, you know, at the core of that sort of journey is, no one can tell you, you know, what you are supposed to be expressing in the world. And as a matter of fact, you're trying to get out of that condition, which, you know, may be why you're doing the thing that you hate, because you asked someone outside of yourself what you should be doing. So I would say there's nobody standing between you, except you.

• 9:32Rich Roll?

  Right. What was that, you just told me the other day that you came across, you know how like everybody shares inspirational quotes on, on Instagram? And you came across one, though, that was pretty funny. Do you remember what it was?

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, actually, it was my, it was, I want to say it was Frank Zappa. It was my friend Heather, Heather Carter. Yeah, it was my friend Heather Carter. And it was something like, it was, I could try to see if I can find it. But it was some kind of thing like, like, if you're in a job doing what you hate, and you're doing something because somebody told you to, then it's your

• 10:07Rich Roll?

  Your parent, you're doing

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Because your parents told you to, then it's your own fault. You know, basically, and it was kind of humorous and funny and also very true. And so it's kind of cool because, um, yeah, everything that you were just speaking to is completely true. I mean, we live in an age, actually, I was working with a beautiful, uh, a being that's come into my life and that I'm sort of collaborating with in some ways. And, and this person, uh, you know, was a gifted opera singer and has found herself in a very, very high functioning corporate job, um, that pays a ton of money. And so we've been sort of exploring some inner journey together. And, um, you know, it's,

• 10:51Speaker 01

  it's beautiful to, uh, you know, to see, uh, the soul calling her, you know, from this point, you know, and in my, in our exploration, we were talking about doing, you know, finding that thing that we loved as a child. Like, what is that thing that you loved to do as a child? And if you can really get in touch with that, then you can start to just take steps every day towards that thing. Like, if every single day, you take at least one step, or maybe there's 10 steps, or maybe, you know, um, if you just keep moving in that direction, then that energy will start to show up in your life and the opportunities will present themselves.

• 11:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's about beginning and then it's about consistent, you know, almost incremental, sometimes microscopic pressure that is relentlessly applied, right? So it's not about, um, the overnight, like dramatic, walking out on the job into the abyss, you know, and certainly that happens, people do that. But I think the more likely scenario, uh, is when you start to shift and you just, your energy starts to get directed, um, you know, in a, in somewhat almost at the beginning, perhaps imperceptible way in a new direction. But when you consistently apply that energy in a new, in a new direction. Opportunities start to arise and things start to show up.

• 12:14Rich Roll?

  And when you look back on it, you know, two, five years later, you're like, wow, I'm in a completely different place. But it doesn't have to be some giant explosion of your life in order to redirect.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I also feel like there's a, there's kind of a new energy of, of the moment, which is that in order to be creative, you have to create. So I think before you, you thought about how to be creative before you took an action. But it's almost like, you know, James Altucher was, you know, we were talking about how I do so many different things and how, you know, he was singing some like sitcom song before he was going to give his talk. And he was pointing out that the fact that I do so many different things and that, that I'm exercising different parts of my brain. So in fact, you must create in order to be creative, you know, and, and by just stepping

• 13:08Speaker 01

  in and jumping in, like I always say, like, you know, if you're a singer, paint something. If you're a painter, sing something. You know, do something that's sort of out of the box because it activates another part of your brain and you might discover something about yourself that's very, very key.

• 13:26Rich Roll?

  I think also we look at creativity in a, in a limited way, in a limited construct, like, oh, it's, you're a painter or you're an actor. But creativity is just, is a kind of application of a mindset to whatever you're doing. You can be an accountant and be creative in your, in your practice of accounting or in other areas of your life. So, and, you know, it's not like creative people are just these people that are walking around with some kind of predis, you know, you know, predisposed gift that nobody else can access. Creativity is, is action. It is process, you know, it's showing up for something every single day and practicing

• 14:10Rich Roll?

  it, you know, everybody who is. Sort of adept in whatever creative field that they're in, didn't, you know, most of them, with the exception of the, you know, the truly touched, evolved their craft over time, started off not being very good, and through, you know, persistent relentless action, taken most of the time in anonymity, you know, get to a place where they become proficient in it. So it's consistency above all, I think. It's a consistent application of action.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's consistent, but I think inherent in it is a freedom. So when I hear you say the words like relentless, you know, it's like, it's a, it's an open, it's a freedom, it's, it's being, it's being without boundary, it's being full of wonder of, and the reason that it's important when you, the reason it's so useful to do something that you're not trained to do, is because you can't be in the box with something you haven't been trained to do. So it's the breaking of those structures that allows this wonder to come in, which is, creativity is one of the foundational pillars of my homeschool model that I'm writing

• 15:20Speaker 01

  about and that I'm advocating for. And it's homeschooling, unschooling, but that's what I'm saying. I'm saying creativity in all things, in all areas, because if we continue to only play within the bounds, the bounds of the model in whatever we're doing, we don't have the answers we need. We need quantum leaps. And those quantum leaps come in free, open creativity. That is, it's, it's uncharted territory, never been experienced before. You know, it's, we're in the world is flat moment, you know, where we think we're sailing towards the edge of the earth and we're going to fall off. So what's going to bring us

• 16:04Speaker 01

  that information? The very space of creativity, being in creativity and being open to receive it. And it's going to come through the kids.

• 16:15Rich Roll?

  I also think that when people start to contemplate like a new path for their life, whether it's a different career, or perhaps entertaining, you know, an athletic goal, or a creative goal, or something like that, fear starts to creep in, right? Because it's an unknown, like, it's scary, like, what's, you know, what I know is showing up for this job that I don't like every day, and I understand that, it doesn't make me happy, but I can't contemplate what life would be like doing the alternative, and that keeps people stuck, right? Because they're projecting into the future some unknown, you know, scenario for their life, and because you can't wrap your head around what that would look like and how it would all work, it prevents people from doing anything, right?

• 17:00Rich Roll?

  So, I think that a good way of sort of confronting that fear is to just take one small action, right? Like, so let's say, it doesn't matter what it is, let's say, like, oh, I want to be a stand-up comedian, you know, I don't, I don't want this job that I'm in, I want to do something completely different. Well, the idea of quitting your job and suddenly being a full-time stand-up comic when you haven't done anything before, of course, that's going to be frightening and intimidating and you name it, right? But, why don't you just wake up in the morning and write one joke down in a journal? Like, that's not so scary, right? Like, do one thing, and then the next day, do it again, and then maybe two weeks later, uh, you know, tell your joke out loud to some friends at work and see how that goes,

• 17:45Rich Roll?

  and then the next day, refine that joke, and then tell it again and see if it works better. And, you know, it's these tiny little actions that start to add up, that don't seem to be necessarily, you know, related to completely changing your career, but over time, that's what actually is the thing that will shift you.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  That's true, very, very true. Just daily, consistent action, you know, doing what you love and being connected to something that excites you and that, that speaks to you, and, you know, I also think that there are, you know, ways, there, there's many ways in our society that we can remove things that incite fear out of our existence. So, I mean, the one key thing that I find just, uh, really, really like an assault to the senses is having a television in the home. So, you know what I mean? It seems so like, oh, what do you mean, the TV? The TV is like a box of evil. I mean, and don't get me wrong, I love movies, I love filmmakers, I love directors. And even though, you know, I'm focused in spiritual things, I watch, you know, I can

• 18:48Speaker 01

  watch dark stuff, I can, you know, I don't like to that much, but I'm open to the artistic expression of different things. Also, being the mom of boys and the wife of ritual, you know, it's like, it's part of our modern life in a way. So I sort of have to blend a little bit more. But let's really talk about the TV and what is, basically, the biggest thing that's coming out of the television is garbage, energetic garbage, and fear-based programs that are being broadcast into your space. So if you have a practice of getting up and turning on the news, you're going to be allowing that energy into your space.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  And, you know, seriously, I mean, how much time is wasted by clicking through all those channels on all those hundreds of stations? And you, I mean, I've done it. You're going and you're going and you're looking for something decent to watch, and then you could spend, you know, 40 minutes and just turn it off and walk out of the room and nothing ever happened. So, you know, if you're wanting to clean your, your space up, if you're wanting to get clear and streamlined and connected to yourself, get rid of the TV, please, like today.

• 20:02Rich Roll?

  How long ago did we get rid of our television?

• 20:04Speaker 01

  It's been years now.

• 20:06Rich Roll?

  Has it been that long?

• 20:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you, you know, you were kicking and screaming.

• 20:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah. So the evolution of that for us was, the first part was getting rid of the cable or the satellite, right? We still had a, we still had a flat-screen TV in our house, but we got, we cut the cord on the cable, which was not fun. And then about, how, maybe it was, was it a year ago that we actually removed the television completely from the house?

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:34Rich Roll?

  And trust me, like, I did not want this to happen. I, I went through this process kicking and screaming and resisting with every fiber

• 20:44Speaker 01

  It was so annoying.

• 20:45Rich Roll?

  of my body. But, but the truth of the matter is, it's just like... It's just like how I've weathered any detox from any addiction that I've ever had. You're uncomfortable for a period of time. You don't like it. It pushes all your buttons. And then you wake up one day and you're not even thinking about it. And so I don't even think about it anymore. It's crazy. If you had told me that we would be living in a television free house, I would have said, you're insane. And look, to be fair, I'm not sure that I could, I could do it if there wasn't such thing as internet and Netflix and HBO.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Your iPad.

• 21:20Rich Roll?

  And on my iPad and all that kind of stuff. So it's not like I'm completely untethered from watching narrative fiction on, on my iPad, because I do do that. And there's plenty of shows that I love and, you know, I, I like, but, but it, but it has like gotten rid of all the garbage. So now when I watch something, it's generally a high quality program. It's a documentary or it's, you know, something of, you know, of artistic merit as opposed to, you know, the news and the Kardashians and just the incessant kind of noise and fear based programming and advertising that is just entering your subconscious at, you know, a ridiculous rate of speed. And you're not even aware of what your, your mind, your consciousness is processing all

• 22:04Rich Roll?

  day long while that's just on in the background.

• 22:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you think it's nothing, but it's actually not nothing. And I, I think it's going to be this thing, like, you know, when you watch Mad Men and you see like the pregnant woman smoking a cigarette and like taking a drink of the whiskey and she's clearly pregnant and it seems so, we're like, like, can you believe that? That's crazy. Right? So there's going to come a moment in a few years where they're like, yeah, and they used to turn this box on and just project all this negative crap at themselves all day. And they had no awareness, you know, what it was doing to them. So I really, really, you know, the volume needs to come way down and tho- those things need to disappear. And if you do have a, a TV in your home. Then use it for programming that you're choosing to watch. But make sure that you're the one that's making the choice. It's the same thing with your mind.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  If your mind is using you, you're in trouble. If you use your mind, alright, good for you. It's a tool. Same thing with the internet. Making sure that the internet is not using you. And this is a challenge. And it's a challenge for us as well. Because we've created a platform to communicate with the audience and to try to spread our message over the, you know, over the internet. And it's an amazing thing. And there's a point where we have to close the door and keep some space sacred for our family, you know? And not be, you know, Rich and I always talk about being living examples. And it's like, what living examples are we if we're on our Instagram 24/7 and answering every single question? I mean, there has to be some space for us, you know?

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Or else we're not really living, you know, in truth. And so that's something that, you know, we're, you know, we're working with and, um, you know, trying to balance. But it's a, the technology thing and just the content, you know, it's beautiful right now because everyone can choose what kind of content they want to let into their field. And I will just let you know, from a spiritual standpoint, the way the energies are now on the planet today, you are literally creating your life moment to moment to moment. And your subconscious is, is, uh, is, is, um, banking all this stimulus and all this information that's coming at it.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  So, um, you know, make sure that, I always say, if you want to live authentically and live a really empowered life and really connect deeper with who you are, you want to do everything you can to stay out of fear. Stay out of fear. Stay out of fear. Stay out of fear. Don't, don't watch things that are, um, that are, you know, uh,

• 24:43Speaker 01

  what I want to say, promoting fear-based agendas, ideas, um, outcomes, either planetarily or within the political system or within society. Um, and also connect with what you love. Try to spend as much time as you can doing things that you love. Because when you're in a frequency of love... And you're feeling connected and you're feeling this meaning and this connection with something greater than yourself that usually comes when you're doing your passion, when you're doing that which you loved when you were a child. And it doesn't matter what it is. But when you spend moments in that frequency, that's what you're cultivating and that's

• 25:26Speaker 01

  what's being amplified. So then we can, in fact, access deeper realms of ourselves and greater powers that we have so that we can do good in the world. But if you're only looking at the fear and all the problems, you're not in the solution. And like I always say, if you're fighting for peace, you're still fighting.

• 25:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think that if you do one thing, it's stop watching the news. Because the news is all about fomenting fear. You know, that's what gets ratings. And it's almost impossible to watch a single news program without some kind of fear inciting, you know, sort of story. I mean, almost all of the stories pivot around that. Like, let's be very afraid. Here's a threat. And, you know, that's not good. And if you want to stay connected to what's going on in the world, you know, question what that's really about. Like, you can take it upon yourself to educate yourself about what's happening in different ways that are more balanced. You can read it in a newspaper, you know, a high-quality

• 26:32Rich Roll?

  newspaper. You can go on Vice, you know, which I think is a much more objective look at what's really going on in the world. But just like, watching the nightly news or just having CNN on in the background is not a good daily practice.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, the worst is to watch the news before you go to bed, and then that gets programmed in your subconscious. And that's what you're cultivating. You're going into very, very deep sleep states with fear. And that's what's happening. The other thing I would say is, frequency... In my experience, I can basically go completely news-free for a month and then think, "Oh, you know, I need to get in touch." And pretty much everything that I needed to learn, I found out on Twitter. Or somebody told me at the coffee shop. You know, it's like you really, like, how much do you really need to know? And then if you go on after like a month, I get caught up in like 10 minutes and then I'm like, "I didn't miss anything."

• 27:27Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Like, who cares?

• 27:28Rich Roll?

  It's been an interesting evolution for me because as somebody who, I grew up in Washington DC, inside the Beltway family. And when you grow up in Washington, basically, all anybody talks about is politics. Right? And that's your world. And you become very well-informed about every single thing that's happening in Washington because that's just watercooler talk, or wherever you are, that's the subject of the day. I knew a lot more about politics when I was in high school than I did when I was in college, than I did when I was in law school. Like, the longer I've lived away from Washington DC, the less informed I've become, and the less sort of interested I've become. I've also become quite disenchanted with the whole thing altogether, but that's a different story.

• 28:11Rich Roll?

  But the point being that, that initially, in my relationship with you, Julie, it would be a little bit frustrating because I would sort of pride myself on kind of knowing what was going on in the world. And then I would, at dinnertime, I'd say, "Hey, you know, what do you think about this or that or something?" And you would just go, "Yeah, I don't know anything about that." I'd get, I'd be like, "I don't know if I can be married to this person."

• 28:32Speaker 01

  She's so illiterate.

• 28:34Rich Roll?

  We can't debate the subjects of the day at dinner.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 28:36Rich Roll?

  And she's like, "No, I don't want that in my field. I don't need to know about that. There are other people dealing with that." And I'd be like, "That's irresponsible. We have an obligation to know what's going on so that we can speak to it, or take a stand, or what have you." And of course, that is important, to kind of know what's going on, especially with respect to things that perhaps we could do something about through advocacy and et cetera. But- Ninety-nine percent of what's being broadcast on the news, you really don't need to know or you don't need to be taking it in, in that, in that format. And I think when you look at, like, look, again, the continual theme with a lot of the emails that are coming in, a lot of these inquiries are, like, I'm stuck, I'm afraid. Right?

• 29:21Rich Roll?

  Fear is behind everything, almost everything, that is holding most people back. So then it becomes, alright, well, how do we address this fear? How do we overcome it? It's not about pretending fear doesn't exist, or pretending that you're never going to be afraid, but there are actions that you can take to reduce the amount of fear-based stimulus that's coming into your life. And to the extent that you have control over those things, that's something to look at.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I mean, also, you could just, just take a little space of observation. Why don't you just take a pen and paper and just observe what's on the TV when you're watching it, and see if what, what I'm talking about is resonating? You know, see how many pharmaceutical ads are popping up on the TV, see how the news is directed, how it's presented, the sensational, the sensationalism, and, you know, just take a little observational check-in, and see, you know, see what's, see what's coming up. But, you know, I would say, as an outlier, as somebody who was never in the mainstream, even as a child, politics always seemed to me like high school, like, high school elections.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  And, you know, I care deeply about the planet, and I care deeply about humanity, and I spend a lot of focus and a lot of energy in meditation, seeing the best for our, for our species, seeing the best for the planet, and using my energies to cultivate love, and acceptance, and non-judgment, and compassion for, you know, all living beings and all sentient beings. And that, to me, is the way that I, that I am connected. And so, I don't have a lot of hang-ups about not knowing who somebody is in a political office. Like, I just, I don't identify with it.

• 31:10Rich Roll?

  Do you know who the president is?

• 31:12Speaker 01

  I think so. He's a black guy. His name's Obama. I voted, I did vote. I voted for him, although I giggle at, you know, a lot of my spiritual community, at least at the high level, like, you know, there's no one gets involved in that level. But I did, because, you know, I'm more of a householder and I have family and, you know, I'm about the blend. And so, you know, we had such high hopes. And, and I'm not even really upset. I just, you know, there is no us in them. There's only us. We're all together and we're all just, you know, becoming aware and there's different levels of that happening. And so, you know, again, I, I just practice to hold the highest vision for, for every living being and.

• 31:58Rich Roll?

  Right. Not that your approach is dogmatic in any kind of specific religious or spiritual way, because you're kind of, you know, polyamorous in that regard, but that idea of the best way to change the world is to, is to improve yourself, is kind of something that hearkens back to the principles of Zen Buddhism, which is basically like, if you wanna, if you wanna change the world, like, meditate, right? Like, that's, that is the way to have the greatest impact, is to get to know yourself and become the best version of yourself, the most authentic version of yourself, right? And learn how to express that with

• 32:38Rich Roll?

  love in the world, in service to other people. And that is the path to ultimately, you know, profoundly changing what it is that you have control over in the world, right?

• 32:51Speaker 01

  True. Very true.

• 32:52Rich Roll?

  So it's counterintuitive, I think, but anyway.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  Thanks for sticking with me.

• 32:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Did we answer that question?

• 32:58Speaker 01

  No, I mean you, for not, yeah. Thanks for sticking with me.

• 33:01Rich Roll?

  I'm continuing to evolve.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  When I couldn't answer the. Questions of the day about the news.

• 33:07Rich Roll?

  No, I joke. I mean, you know who the president is, obviously, but if I was to ask you about cabinet members, then we might go a little bit sideways.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  I have no idea about any of that. And I also have no shame or humiliation about it either.

• 33:18Rich Roll?

  That's the thing. You're like, you know.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  Go ahead. Knock yourself out.

• 33:22Rich Roll?

  I know. And with respect to the television thing, I mean, the only time that I ever watch television is when I travel and I'm in some hotel room and I'm like, oh, let's see what's on TV. And then I'm like, doing exactly that thing that you said, where I'm cycling through the channels. And I'm like, wow, like, it really is bleak. Like, there really isn't any, like, and then I'll just turn it off and I'll watch a documentary on my iPad, even though there's a, you know, flat screen TV right in front of me.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  It's interesting, right?

• 33:47Rich Roll?

  So now my relationship with this thing that I thought I couldn't do without in my own home, I actually don't really care about. And it's interesting, as parents of children, our kids could care less about TV. And I think that that is, you know, kind of endemic to the millennial generation. Like, they're not being reared on television, they're being reared on the internet. Like, that's where they go. Like.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Which is another thing.

• 34:10Rich Roll?

  They're like, TV, they look at their parents, like, why would you sit and watch a television show? Like, doesn't make any sense.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:16Rich Roll?

  Right? Anyway. Okay, before we get to the next question, today's show is also brought to you by Casper. How many Casper mattresses do we have in the house now?

• 34:27Speaker 01

  I think we have like, four now.

• 34:28Rich Roll?

  I know. We love them. They're great.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  They're great.

• 34:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's a really cool company that's really disrupting the mattress industry, which needs disrupting.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  In a good way.

• 34:38Rich Roll?

  Freaking mattresses are expensive, man. I mean, can you imagine, like, going to the mattress store and like, laying on all those mattresses, trying to find the one that's good for you and then spending like, an ungodly amount of money to have this thing sent to your house? Like, forget it, right? So, in the same way that. Warby Parker has disrupted the eyeglass market by making eyeglasses affordable and in a direct-to-consumer market. That's kind of what these guys are doing. So Casper is an online retailer of premium mattresses at a fraction of the price. The mattress industry has inherently forced consumers into paying notoriously high markups. Casper is revolutionizing the mattress industry by cutting the cost of dealing with resellers and showrooms and

• 35:21Rich Roll?

  passing that savings directly to the consumer. These mattresses provide resilience and long-lasting supportive comfort. Casper's mattresses is one of a kind, a new hybrid mattress that combines premium latex foam with memory foam. So mattresses generally run like 1,500 bucks, but the Casper mattresses cost between 500 for a twin size and 600 for a twin XL, 750 for a full size, 850 for a queen size, 950 for a king size. Like, that's- Very reasonable and they're very well made. Yeah, they're very well made. So Casper understands that buying a mattress online can have consumers wondering, how is this possible? But buying a Casper mattress is completely risk-free. They offer

• 36:06Rich Roll?

  free delivery and returns within 100-day period. It's that simple. So basically, you can order one of these mattresses, they ship it to your house in this cool box. You like cut the box open and the thing like explodes out of the box and unfolds. And you can literally sleep on this thing for 100 days. And if you decide like, yeah, not for me, you can send it back to them, they'll pay for the shipping and no questions asked, right? So it's really kind of a no-brainer. So that's a better way than going to a showroom and lying on a bed for, you know, four minutes or 30 seconds and deciding whether that's going to be for you, right? That's right. So that's why Casper's turned the buying process into a risk-free experience. They

• 36:48Rich Roll?

  understand the importance of truly trying out a mattress and that in all reality, you spend a third of your life sleeping, right? It's very good, yeah, very important. All right. So Casper makes an obsessively engineered mattress at a shockingly fair price. Just the right sink, just the right bounce. They all come together for better nights and brighter days. Try your risk-free trial. Sleep on your Casper for 100 days, free delivery, painless returns. They're all made in America.

• 37:17Rich Roll?

  So get $50 off any mattress purchased by visiting www.casper.com/roll and using the promo code roll at checkout. That's it. Casper.com/roll. Check it out.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  Check them out. They're great.

• 37:33Rich Roll?

  We have four of them. We love them. I think Tyler the other day said, can we get another one of these? How many beds do we need in our house?

• 37:41Speaker 01

  It keeps increasing. More people keep moving in.

• 37:44Rich Roll?

  People keep moving into our house.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  Lots of men, too.

• 37:48Rich Roll?

  How many people are living in our house now?

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Now, we have a, now we have another, actually, woman.

• 37:55Rich Roll?

  We do?

• 37:55Speaker 01

  Well, part-time.

• 37:56Rich Roll?

  Who's that?

• 37:57Speaker 01

  No one. We can't say on the air.

• 37:59Rich Roll?

  Are you gonna let me know when more people?

• 38:01Speaker 01

  No, we just have, yeah, we have relationships blooming and things like that happen. They're beautiful.

• 38:07Rich Roll?

  Cool. So the next thing, the next question I want to ask is, somebody sent in an email saying, this is from Farmer Diddley. Hey, Farmer Diddley.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 38:18Rich Roll?

  I know. How are the book sales for The Plant Power Way going? Better than expected? Less? Are you and Julie pleased with the sales? Just curious. Well, that's a cool question. I appreciate the interest in that. We haven't really talked about The Plant Power Way. I felt like we talked about it so much on the podcast.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  We're just like, I don't want to talk about it anymore.

• 38:36Rich Roll?

  And I was like, I gotta give everyone a break on that. But sales have been really great. We had an amazing launch and, you know, the reviews have been overwhelmingly, you know, amazingly positive and it continues to rocket on Amazon. I think we're still in the In the thousands in terms of the rank, which is really high considering it's been, you know, I don't know, three months since it came out or something like that.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:02Rich Roll?

  So it has staying power, which is awesome. And just based on people posting on Facebook and Instagram, pictures of the recipes that they're enjoying, it seems like, you know, people are digging it. So we're really happy. I mean, I have no...

• 39:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're digging it a lot and it's been really fun. It's been really, really meaningful. First of all, I just want to thank everybody who pre-ordered the book and who rushed out to support us and it really, really made a huge difference. And it established our book as, you know, a player in the field. And you guys really helped launch it and helped make it, you know, a book that's going to stay around for many, many, many years. And so, thank you for that. And I also want to thank everybody who gave us a review on Amazon and took the time to do that.

• 39:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Those reviews were key and I was overwhelmingly just touched and, you know, filled with gratitude at, you know, the amount of amazing things that were said. And I'm also just, I'm so pleased. I mean, I really, these recipes, you know, were my very best that I had, you know? I gave it my all, you know, as far as within the food. And Rich and I both, you know, put so much work into this and even with the lifestyle sections and the information. And, you know, we created a book that, you know, we would have liked to have had ourselves and that really, really contained everything that we possibly could offer. And so, I was just really touched that so many of you received that.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  And I love hearing when people are making the recipes, Instagramming the photos and they're having great success. I love it that, you know, the recipes are easy and you guys are finding that to be, you know, a value for your lives. So it means a ton to me. So, thank you.

• 40:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, it's been a wild success, you know? I can't, I can't think of anything that I would have changed or done differently. So, it's all good and I appreciate you asking.

• 41:16Rich Roll?

  I thought it would be fun if we read, I'm looking at the reviews on Amazon right now. We have 275 reviews, we're 4.8 out of 5 stars. So 92% of the reviews are 5 star, right? So, thank you, all you guys that took a moment to do that.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Now we're gonna look at-

• 41:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah, like my eye gravitates towards the 1 star reviews, which are hilarious.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  Let's read some of those.

• 41:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah, like it's so good.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  Just for fun.

• 41:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, let's see, uh, right.

• 41:50Rich Roll?

  One came in the other day, actually August 8th, 2 days ago. 1 star. "I had hoped for more recipes." Period. That's the whole review. It's so funny because in the description of the book, it says 120-

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Plus.

• 42:04Rich Roll?

  120 plus plant-based recipes, and that's exactly how many recipes are in the book. So, I don't know what happened there.

• 42:10Speaker 01

  Sorry that we dashed your hopes for more recipes.

• 42:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  But those were, that was all I had.

• 42:16Rich Roll?

  I like this one too.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  Can't really do anything about that.

• 42:18Rich Roll?

  By Ode, O-D.

• 42:22Rich Roll?

  "My wife and I have lots of vegan cookbooks and most are quite creative and original. We returned this book because it's lack of, because it's lack of either. They actually gave it back."

• 42:30Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 42:30Rich Roll?

  Like they just jumped on the bandwagon for vegan cookbooks and slightly altered existing recipes out in Google land.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Wow, that's amazing.

• 42:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  That's a perspective.

• 42:40Rich Roll?

  There you go. And a couple people left 1 star reviews because they're like, "The recipes use oils. Had I known that these recipes used oils, I would not have ordered the book because I don't use oils in cooking and preparing food. This book is useless for me. Very disappointed."

• 42:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 42:56Rich Roll?

  Well, we, yeah, alright, well that's your prerogative. I mean, we never advertised it as a-

• 43:00Speaker 01

  As a no oil book.

• 43:02Rich Roll?

  No oil book, so maybe there was some confusion there. But I think we were pretty clear in all of the recipes that use oil to say that they can be made without oil and where, if you're on that-

• 43:12Speaker 01

  Transformation.

• 43:13Rich Roll?

  That transformation path, we specifically say-

• 43:17Speaker 01

  Eliminate the oil.

• 43:18Rich Roll?

  Eliminate the oils. Choose the recipes that don't use oil and for the recipes that do, they can be prepared without oil. So I thought we were clear on that and she misunderstood or, I don't know. She, in her mind, she thought like this was a no oil book. I don't know how she got that.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  No, I mean, I think-

• 43:33Rich Roll?

  I don't know why I'm saying she either, it could have been a he.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  Could have been a he. No, I mean, I think that- You know, again, we're just sharing from our level of experience and we are not a no oil family. Like, that is not Ayurvedic and it is not how we live. And if I would not have been able to go vegan had I been a non-oil, if I had to eat that way. So, anyway, I use very, very little oil, eliminate it whenever I can. But, you know, I'm an advocate of, you know, some use of coconut oil and healthy fats, you know, for soft, supple skin and healthy brain function.

• 44:12Rich Roll?

  Okay, one other review. This is actually-

• 44:15Speaker 01

  Is it a good one?

• 44:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, it's another negative one.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 44:19Rich Roll?

  It's a two-star one. But I love the caption, "You will never be as perfect as they are." And it goes on, it's like five paragraphs long. But essentially, the gist of it is, this person, you know, saw all these pictures of our family and is intuiting from the presentation that we made, that we're saying, like, "You have to be perfect in order to do this." Like, that we're establishing some kind of ideal that everyone else is gonna fall short of. And that, that actually kind of breaks my heart a little bit, because everything that we're trying to do was, the whole book was oriented around trying to create a welcome mat-

• 44:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:55Rich Roll?

  -for people to embrace this lifestyle. And we wanted to present it in a modern way that made it look accessible and approachable and also aspirational. Like, "Look, we're a healthy family, we're glowing, and we're living this way. It doesn't have to be a deprivation-oriented lifestyle. Like, you can thrive." And we wanted to show ourselves of example, as examples of thriving, eating and living this way. And so, this person interpreted it differently as saying, "We're better than you, and you'll never be as good as us," which is the exact opposite of what we were trying to, kind of, you know,

• 45:34Rich Roll?

  put out, put out there. So, that's disappointing to me. But, you know, we, I think it goes to this idea of not being able to control, you know, like, "Look, I'm not gonna- That person's entitled to their opinion. If that's what they got out of it, I can't take that away from them.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  Sure. I mean, well, there are many perspectives in creation. So, you know, we, again, it's like, at the end of the day, I'm, I have no, I have no remorse, I have no guilt, and I have no, no hindsight view, like, I wish I had done this. I don't, because we produced a really beautiful book, and there was all of my energy that I had available, went into it, and so did yours. And so, I'm cool with it. It's okay. You know, people have different perspectives. And anyway, things, you know, those reviews have everything. When you give a review, you're really, you're really speaking about yourself. You're not really speaking about what you're reviewing.

• 46:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's true. I mean, I think on this idea of perfectionism, though, like, all I do on the podcast is talk about all my imperfections.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  I know.

• 46:42Rich Roll?

  So, you know, I'm hardly trying to put this idea out there that you have to do things perfectly.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  But it's probably somebody who doesn't listen to the podcast, or just picked the book up. And again, it's from her perspective, or their perspective, his perspective, her perspective. And if they knew more about the, you know, about our work and the mission as a whole, they, they probably, you know, they may not feel that well, that way. But also, at the end of the day, it's like, you're, you can't please everybody and be authentic. And this is something that I think is key, that sort of connects back to the previous sharing about the questions that have come in. The thing is, is that you're not going to please everybody all the time. And it's an impossibility, because people have too many perspectives. And so, at the end of the day, you better have pleased yourself. You better have, and that's what I mean by saying, like, I don't have any remorse. I

• 47:32Speaker 01

  did the very best of my ability within my heart. I have nothing uncovered in that way with regards to this project, with regards to this expression. I could not have done any more in the time that I had, and I have my heart in it. And I think you had your heart in it as well. And I think that's why the reviews are 92% five-star, and, you know, and, and the others less. But if anybody's thinking about doing a project, you know, you're never going to please everybody all the time, and you can't. You know, you can't become paralyzed because of that, or focus on the negative, or you know.

• 48:08Rich Roll?

  Not only, not only is it that you can't, you shouldn't, right?

• 48:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, you shouldn't.

• 48:12Rich Roll?

  You can't, if you, if your approach to a project is, um, you know, how can I do something, whether it's write a book, or whatever it is, that's going to appeal to the most number of people, like you're already on the wrong path. Like, you have to do, uh, you have to do what, you, you have to create something that you would like to see, or that would answer a question you want answered, or something that represents your perspective, right? That's, that has to be the marching orders, and if you follow that path, not everyone's gonna be happy. And the truth is, if you're not ruffling a few feathers, or upsetting a few people, then you're not actually voicing an opinion, right? Like, you're, you're just kind of up the middle.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 48:53Rich Roll?

  And, you know, I think it's better to be convicted in what it is you're trying to express with the, with the understanding that not everyone is gonna digest it equally, um, than to try to please everybody, because then what do you have of value at the end of the day? Like, you just have some milquetoast thing that, um, oh, well, nobody got upset by it, but what are you actually doing?

• 49:16Speaker 01

  No one got inspired by it either.

• 49:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah, what are you actually doing and saying? And, and, look, you know, just last night, I posted the Iron Cowboy podcast, um, and, you know, everybody who followed that journey, I mean, he's had, you know, he's had a massive impact on the world in terms of inspiring people and, and demonstrating, you know, what the human mind, body, and spirit is capable of by kind of redefining the limits of human endurance in certain ways. Uh, and even that endeavor was not without its controversy, and its haters, and its critics. It's crazy. Even yesterday, I ran into somebody who, who is a triathlete friend of mine, he's like, "Oh, yeah, so, oh, yeah, so what do you think about, uh, you know, the fact that he didn't do this, or he didn't do that?" And I'm like, "What are you even talking about?

• 50:01Rich Roll?

  Like, I just don't understand the people that wanna take James down a notch."

• 50:06Speaker 01

  Right, tear him down.

• 50:06Rich Roll?

  Because he didn't do it exactly the way that they think that he should have done it, when they haven't walked, you know, a single mile in his shoes. Like, it's just crazy to me. And, you know, that's the world that we live in now, where, you know, everybody can have an opinion and put it online, and it can, and that opinion can, you know, get traction, and... You know, create dialogue and discussion and, you know, look, there's, there's a lot of, it goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning about negativity, right? So, do you want to engage in that negativity? Do you want to roll up your sleeves and get involved in some big drama? Like, is that really where you want to direct your energy and focus on? Or why not just celebrate this guy and this amazing thing that he did and see the good in it?

• 50:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 50:49Rich Roll?

  So.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  Exactly. And hold that vision and see the incredible heart, the incredible spirit and the incredible adventure that he went on, you know, the courage and the commitment and the fact that he was with his kids and, you know, it's a, it's such a triumph. It's such a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful triumph. And all the people that connected with him and came out along the way. I mean, it's incredible what he's done. And so, you know, there's no need to focus on his diet or to focus on his political views or to focus on like anything else. Like, it's just, it just doesn't matter. And if you can just hold the highest vision for somebody, they will get to where they need to go on their own.

• 51:28Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  You know, they don't need to be torn down because they're not vegan, you know?

• 51:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there was somebody who posted on my Facebook page who was like, you know, I posted about the video that I made or the podcast and like, you know, he, you know, he eats this way and he eats that way. How can you be supportive of this person? And I'm like, okay, so the guy doesn't eat the diet that I eat, you know, that I advocate. So, I'm not supposed to. So, so now I'm, I'm barred from.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  Covering him?

• 51:58Rich Roll?

  From like shining a light on something amazing that he did. Like, I'm not, you know, I'm not going to operate that way in the world. I don't think that that's carrying a high vibration.

• 52:07Speaker 01

  Well, and the other thing is, is that he was in my kitchen and he is interested in what I'm doing. He's very interested in what I'm doing. And had I had more time, he was interested in me talking to him about meal plans and stuff, but we just, I just didn't have time. When he showed up, there was no time. So, it's not, the story isn't over. It's the beginning of our relationship with him. Who knows how we're all going to inspire each other? That family certainly has inspired me. You know, I wanted, I want to know all about Sunny. I want to know everything that she experienced on the way. I want to know those kids, you know? So, it's, it's just the beginning of our journey together. Why start tearing it down before it's even flowered? It's even blossomed?

• 52:46Rich Roll?

  Right. Then you prevent any opportunity for growth or progression, right? Like, if, like, let's say I said. You know what, like, he's not a vegan athlete, so I'm not gonna do a podcast with him. Well, or, or I'm gonna criticize him because he did this amazing thing, but he didn't eat the way that I would have eaten, right? Well, then, you've now shortcut or prevented any opportunity for inspiring him to improve his diet. Or preventing all the people that listen to this podcast from being inspired by the example that he set in the arena in which he chose to do something extraordinary. So, anyway.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  It's okay. It's like, it's, it's all right. You know, we, you know, we, and what, one of the things that we talked about in the book is that, you know, it's not black and white. You know, life is not black and white. It's just not. And when you start creating those boundaries in those boxes, there's a violence created in that. And if you really look into the energy, that's what it is. So, we're not looking to, for, we're not looking for the differences, we're looking for the similarities. I'm looking to connect with, with, you know, the heart of this athlete, of this father, of this being that had the courage to do something outside of the box. I'm looking for the heart of this father of five children that ran with his daughter every 5K in every state.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  You know, I'm looking for the beauty in the relationship between these two beings. There's so many things that I can find in such an extraordinary, you know, demonstration. And, you know, it's not, it's not gonna be all one way. It's not all perfect. I am not perfect. You and I are not perfect. You know, there's, you know, many imbalances, you know, that all of us as human beings are working on, fine tuning and, and, and refining. And so, anyway, it's been, it's been an honor and it was, it's just beautiful that you had him on the podcast and that the word got out and all the people that came out to support him and the fact that you were able to go back at the end.

• 54:55Speaker 01

  You know, there's nothing but beauty in that entire experience and I, you know, I'm sure that there's much more to come.

• 55:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, for sure. And, and, you know, being present in Utah and, and being there firsthand to not only witness him finishing, but to observe how he interacted with his wife and his kids. You know, when I saw him, you know, with his kids and the way that he, you know, ran with Lucy, uh, and the way that he, you know, hugged his, his other daughters and his son when he fin- I mean, like, there's a million examples, but it's really a beautiful thing. You know, this is something we should only be celebrating. And when, when you get into that, that, that be very careful and wary of being in that place of judgment. You know, you eat a certain way, somebody else doesn't, suddenly you've created separation.

• 55:46Rich Roll?

  And that separation is an impediment to, to growth on both sides of the equation, right? And, you know, don't cast stones when you live in a glass house. We're all imperfect.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  And, and at a deeper level, that judgment, that the judgment we're projecting, the resentment and the judgment we're projecting at others is in fact, the resentment and judgment that we have for ourselves. And that is the greatest, um, violence to inflict that upon yourself. So by releasing that and by choosing to look at the good and choosing to hold that vision of the highest expression for yourself and for someone else is, is a great act of, of love.

• 56:31Rich Roll?

  Beautiful. All right. One more question that we'll do. This is from Nathan. Uh, it's a couple of paragraphs, but I'll read the pertinent part. My question, "I'm pretty sure I used to have a drinking problem. Definitely had have a groundedness problem and addictive personality to the extreme, as per all of the changes above. But I never had that moment of reckoning, rock bottom, if you will. Even though I was arrested twice for DUI, got taken to a Mexican jail, blackout drunk commonly, I just kind of wanted better. Maybe you folks and the healthy lifestyle is my new addiction. Should I take it easy on too much change all at once while I burn out?" So this is an interesting question. I think there's

• 57:14Rich Roll?

  a lot packed into here. Um, you know, Nathan, I don't know you, so I cannot diagnose you as alcoholic or addict. Only you can do that yourself. I think it's interesting, I will say this, I think it's interesting that you say that you used to have a drinking problem and used to have an addictive personality, or maybe you're saying you still have an addictive personality to the extreme. My personal opinion is that, once you've had a drinking problem, you always have a drinking problem, or once you have an addictive personality, you most likely always have an addictive personality. And somebody who has gotten arrested twice for DUI, gone to a Mexican jail, blackout

• 57:58Rich Roll?

  drink, you know, those are, those are indicia of alcoholism. Like, people that have a normal relationship with alcohol, generally, and of course, there's always outliers, but generally, don't get into those kind of problems. So, that might be something you want to look at. And I think that in terms of, kind of, shifting your addictive personality traits onto, you know, the healthy lifestyle, sort of, going into the food, and, you know, going vegan, and meditation, and all of that is amazing, right? Like, that's fantastic, so, I congratulate you on that. But I would think, I think that one thing that I would point out is that, the most important

• 58:41Rich Roll?

  thing that, that you can do, and I think where the majority of your focus should be placed, is on dealing with the substance abuse issue first, right? I think that, there's a lot of people who, especially people that are new in recovery, they want to do it all at once, and then they think that they've found the solution to their drug and alcohol problem in some other kind of lifestyle fixation. Like, maybe it's training for an Ironman, or a marathon, or maybe it's, you know, some other creative pursuit that suddenly they become obsessed about. And, from experience, and from, you know, a lot of people that I know in the recovery

• 59:24Rich Roll?

  community, this is generally like a misguided approach. I think you need to get at the core of the substance abuse issue first. And, first you have to abstain, you know, from drugs and alcohol, and then you have to... Actively plug into a recovery program that addresses that issue and that issue specifically. Right? So I think what happens is people come into this idea of getting sober and they want to change their entire life overnight, very quickly. But the people that I see that are the most successful are the ones that focus predominantly, if not entirely, on dealing with the substance issue first.

• 1:00:07Rich Roll?

  And if you can resolve that and create a solid foundation of recovery and like, "Look, my best advice is Alcoholics Anonymous and like, you know, the secret society." So there are, you know, the sort of, the principles of AA prevent me from being specific about that, but I always say, you know, "Go check out an AA meeting." And if you have reservations about that or preconceived ideas about what that world, what that community is like, I would set them aside and just show up, have the courage and the willingness to, to take direction and kind of do as you're told in, in, in that world. That was my experience and that's what saved my life and I've seen it save the lives of a lot of people.

• 1:00:50Rich Roll?

  And if you focus on the sobriety first and you create that foundation of, of recovery, then you start to learn and develop acuity with a toolbox of tools that you then can take out into the world and pursue whatever it is you want in your life. Like, recovery is incredible in the sense that it is the one place that you can go and hit pause on your life and just reboot your entire operating system and surround yourself with a community of people who will empower and support you to then go out in the world and do whatever you want. It's an extraordinary, very unique thing. But the substance issue, the sobriety, has to come first.

• 1:01:33Rich Roll?

  All the other things will fall into place if you can develop a level of mastery over that.

• 1:01:45Rich Roll?

  Beautifully said. Yeah, and that's not to say like meditation is a big part of that, right? Healthy eating, all these things are really important. But I think a plant-based diet is not gonna solve your substance abuse issue. You know, and there's a weird thing that that kind of gets misinterpreted, especially on the internet. This idea that like, I went plant-based and that that has cured me of alcoholism. It's like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's kind of like a neatly packaged kind of narrative that that I'll see on the internet, which is a complete mischaracterization of, you know, what occurred with me. I mean, I'd been sober for eight, eight years. Right. Before I switched my diet. In fact, a lot of my addictive tendencies, once I stopped drinking,

• 1:02:29Rich Roll?

  were then, you know, misdirected onto unhealthy foods because I wanted something that would take me out of the moment. Like, look, drug addiction, drug addicts and alcoholics, they're, they're looking to not feel what they're feeling, right? It's not the substances that are the problem, it's the relationship with the substances. It's the emotional state that lies underneath. It's that feeling of, of, of, you know, of not being comfortable in your own skin. It's like a low-grade thing that like, you're always uncomfortable, you always just don't feel right, and you just don't want to be feeling the way that you're feeling. And drugs and alcohol solves that problem until it stops solving it, right? So then you take away the drugs and the alcohol, you've actually taken away the solution to the problem.

• 1:03:14Rich Roll?

  The problem is your emotional state and your spiritual state, right? And if you leave that unaddressed, then you're not really dealing with the problem, right? So, you know, meditation is certainly a crucial, integral aspect of the sobriety equation. But in my experience, like, okay, so I removed, I removed alcohol, but I still was struggling with all of these emotional issues, right? I didn't want to feel the way that I felt, so, oh, let's go to Jack in the Box or McDonald's and eat a bunch of unhealthy food. And that really was like medicating myself because then it would change my emotional state. Not necessarily do a good one, but at least different than how I felt.

• 1:03:57Rich Roll?

  And that can be applied to shopping, or gambling, or, you know, whatever it is. Sex, you know, porn, whatever it is. There's always a way to try to, you know... To try to get out of however you're feeling by immersing yourself in some other world. And it can be in, you know, it can be in fitness as well. People that go insane with Ironman training and all of that kind of stuff because they don't want to deal with whatever it is that's making them uncomfortable in their life. So it's not the thing itself, it's the relationship with the thing.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, beautifully said. And I mean, I don't, I don't have much to add to that at all. I just do want to say that if you're thinking about, you know, getting involved with the program with Alcoholics Anonymous and you're feeling that, you know, there's a part of you that doesn't want to be involved with that group, or you're resisting that identification. I would just say as the partner of somebody who works that program, it has been of great benefit to us, to our relationship. And I think that there is an amazing skillset that you can learn and kind of tools that you can gain for working through conflict and expressing

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  your emotions that actually provide a foundation for a very intimate, very beautiful relationship with, you know, a lover and also with the world. So I would encourage you to look deeper into that. And also, of course, I would put a very high emphasis on the spiritual aspect of the program.

• 1:05:36Rich Roll?

  Very good. All right, I think we did it.

• 1:05:40Speaker 01

  Is that all?

• 1:05:41Rich Roll?

  How do you feel?

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  Feel pretty good.

• 1:05:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, how do you feel?

• 1:05:44Rich Roll?

  I feel good.

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  Do I do okay?

• 1:05:45Rich Roll?

  I feel energized.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 1:05:47Rich Roll?

  I feel, I'm feeling positive. Yeah, really?

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  No, no, I was just kind of, we're doing this in the morning and we never do it in the morning. We usually do it in the afternoon. So, you know, we were, I was kind of in my zone, my little cocoon.

• 1:06:01Rich Roll?

  I thought you did pretty good.

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, all right. No, just the beginning.

• 1:06:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah, why don't you guys who are listening, let us know

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:07Rich Roll?

  how you feel about how we did by leaving us a comment on the episode page. And that was fun.

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was fun.

• 1:06:14Rich Roll?

  All right, you guys, so perhaps after this discussion, you might be interested in picking up a copy of The Plant Power Way after I read all those one-star reviews.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  It's a great cookbook, though.

• 1:06:26Rich Roll?

  If you already have it, makes for a great gift. I think it's only like 23 bucks on Amazon right now, or 21 bucks. Some people have said, "Oh, it's so expensive." I'm like, "Really?" I mean, it retails for $39.99 because it's a heavy, big, beautifully-produced book, but literally, it's like half-price on Amazon. So, I mean, I can't imagine anybody would say it's too expensive. When they get the book and they realize it was only literally like 20 bucks for it, I mean, I think it over-delivers. And just to be clear, 120 plant-based recipes, I don't want anybody to say that they were disappointed there weren't enough recipes. Easy to prepare, delicious, and plenty of guidance for the whole family. It's really

• 1:07:11Rich Roll?

  a primer, right? A primer for the modern family, looking to take your life and your health to the next level. So, check that out on Amazon. Use the Amazon banner at richroll.com to help us out, and that's all good. And for all your plant power needs, go to richroll.com. What have we got? Your meditation program has been a bestselling hit lately.

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  It's taking off. You guys are finally meditating. I'm so happy to know that.

• 1:07:34Rich Roll?

  Suddenly, like, we've had that on the site for a long time, but suddenly, in like, the last two months, like, it's blowing up.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  People are ready to meditate.

• 1:07:42Rich Roll?

  Everybody's downloading that. So, check that out. We have nutrition products. Our Ion Electrolyte Supplement, which is great for all of you multi-sport athletes out there, to make sure you keep your electrolytes in check. We have our Vitamin B12 Supplement. We have signed copies of Finding Ultra. Soon, we're gonna have signed copies of The Plant Power Way. We have 100% organic cotton garments. We have stickers now.

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  Sticker pack.

• 1:08:08Rich Roll?

  Peas and plants and plant power stickers.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  That my daughters have on their necks now, which is kind of alarming.

• 1:08:12Rich Roll?

  Temporary tattoos.

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  It's kind of alarming.

• 1:08:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and we have beautiful, limited-edition art prints from our friend Andrew Pasquilla from his USDA series. These are really cool. Like, he's a good friend of ours, and he wanted to be able to offer some of the work that he's doing on our website, so you can get framed or unframed, beautiful prints on this beautiful, heavy cloth paper. They're all signed and numbered, and it's a limited-edition thing. So, and they're pretty inexpensive, so it's a great way to get your hands on, you know, some beautiful art. And I think that the art is going to appreciate, so it's kind of an investment as well, which is cool.

• 1:08:47Rich Roll?

  If you're into online courses, we have two at mindbodygreen.com. The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, which is a good sort of...

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  Companion

• 1:08:57Rich Roll?

  companion, that's the word I was looking for, companion piece to the plant power way. It's like three and a half hours of streaming video content broken down into five to 10 minute chunks, sort of divided up by subject, all about how to get more plant powered into your life, step by step. It's got an online community. And then the art of living with purpose, which is all about like, goal setting and how to do the inside work to get yourself moving forward on your best trajectory. So, really proud of both of these online courses. They're at mindbodygreen.com. We're thinking about doing another course with them, trying to figure out what that would be.

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  We kind of know what it would be. We gotta, we gotta create it. We gotta map that out.

• 1:09:39Rich Roll?

  We'll make announcements about that soon when we move forward. So, all right, you guys, thanks so much. We're out of here. Thanks for supporting the show. Thanks for telling your friends. Thank you for sharing it on social media and thanks for using the Amazon banner ad.

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, and to find out more about me and to follow me, you can go to sri-mati.com, S-R-I, dot, sorry, S-R-I-M-A-T-I.com. Almost couldn't smell, spell my own website. And you can find my music there. And I have two albums, Jai Home and Mother of Mine, that I created with my sons, Tyler and Trapper.

• 1:10:12Rich Roll?

  Are we gonna take us out with another track?

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's take us out with Be Lovid.

• 1:10:18Rich Roll?

  Didn't we just do that one?

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  No, you did Be Loved. It's different.

• 1:10:22Rich Roll?

  Be Lovid and Be Love?

• 1:10:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're two different songs.

• 1:10:25Rich Roll?

  That's confusing.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  Well, Be Loved is like a sweet song about bees and being love. And Be Lovid is about the dark night when you are completely lost and you're, you're sure that God is carrying you, but you're very, very, very in the cave.

• 1:10:45Rich Roll?

  All right, well, Om Shanti.

• 1:10:47Speaker 01

  Om Shanti. You just, Rich Roll just said Om Shanti on the podcast.

• 1:10:51Rich Roll?

  I know, how about that, right?

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  Dude, something's happening. Evolution is at hand.

• 1:10:55Rich Roll?

  We will see you guys in a couple days.

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  Great.

• 1:10:58Rich Roll?

  Thanks for taking this ride with us.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:11:01Rich Roll?

  Peace.

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  Namaste.

• 1:11:25Speaker 02

  Different story now.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Each part of me in pieces on the ground.

• 1:11:37Speaker 02

  Darkness hails.

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  I'm so afraid.

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  Please help me. Please help me to find my way home.

• 1:12:08Speaker 02

  Thunder sounds.

• 1:12:13Speaker 02

  Different presence now. Pretty baby from another space in town.

• 1:12:25Speaker 02

  Lightness hails.

• 1:12:33Speaker 02

  Bring me peace.

• 1:12:39Speaker 02

  Please help me. Please help me to find that I'm home.

• 1:14:00Speaker 02

  See the trees, the tree of life. See I just found, I'm breaking ground.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  See the trees, the tree of life. See I just found, I'm breaking ground.

• 1:14:36Speaker 02

  Beloved, you must be very near to me now.