I Just Discovered My Husband’s Affair

🔥 Microhabits for a better marriage. Download the Together app. On today’s episode, we hear about: A woman who caught her husband in an affair A woman resenting her mother for the childhood trauma she caused A man struggling with loneliness in his marriage Next Steps: ❤️ Get away with your spouse today! 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Go to Capstone Wellness to learn more. Get up to 20% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Working knives for working people—Go to Montana Knife Company to see what’s available now! Explore Poncho Outdoors! Head to Shady Rays and use code DELONY for 40% off two or more polarized sunglasses. Get 25% off your order at Thorne. Visit Zander Insurance or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free instant quote today. Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Dr. John Delony?

  This is an ad for BetterHelp. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and we're all surrounded by nonstop noise and it keeps our bodies on high alert, but you don't have to carry it all alone. Go to betterhelp.com/deloney for 10% off.

• 0:19Speaker 01

  I had had this gut feeling for a while and so I'm not proud of it, but I put a recording, an audio recording device in our car and he goes to Mexico on the weekend. I just heard all of the phone calls and the dates and everything.

• 0:43Dr. John Delony?

  What up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, comedy from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls on your mental and emotional health, on your marriages, your kids, your relationships, your dating, whatever you've got going on in your world, pull up a seat and we'll figure out what's the next right move. You want to be on this show? I'd love to have you on. Click the link in the show notes and it will send you to Kelly and she is the overlord who decides with her scepter who gets in and who gets out. She controls the drawbridge. Let's go to Phoenix, Arizona and talk to Evangeline. Hey, what's up Eve? How we doing?

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Hi, I'm okay. How are you?

• 1:25Dr. John Delony?

  Doing all right. Things going okay?

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Well, I found out on Monday that my husband has been cheating on me.

• 1:36Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, so no.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38Dr. John Delony?

  Not good.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  One week after our one year anniversary.

• 1:43Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45Dr. John Delony?

  How'd you find out?

• 1:48Speaker 01

  Um, I had had this gut feeling for a while and I checked his phone and everything had been locked, which was not the previous situation. And so I'm not proud of it, but I put a recording, an audio recording device in our car and he goes to Mexico on the weekends and yeah, I just heard all of the phone calls and the dates and.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Everything.

• 2:25Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, sorry. I hate this for you.

• 2:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you.

• 2:30Dr. John Delony?

  How can I help?

• 2:32Speaker 01

  So, um, I am loyal to a fault. And when I confronted him with everything at first, he tried to, you know, downplay it and say, oh, we're just friends. But I heard very specific, like, I love yous and pet names. And that's what hurt the most is that he was telling somebody else that he loved them. And he finally was just like, you're right, I messed up.

• 3:05Speaker 01

  He says, you know, like, I want to change and I want to make this better and I want it to work out. Can you ever forgive me?

• 3:13Speaker 01

  And it's just, I'm a logical person and I just don't know

• 3:20Speaker 01

  if change is possible and how to,

• 3:24Speaker 01

  like, believe that and move forward.

• 3:27Dr. John Delony?

  Do you feel like you have the whole truth?

• 3:30Speaker 01

  No.

• 3:31Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  And I don't think I'll ever get it.

• 3:33Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, then you can't rebuild anything because it's got to be rebuilt on a foundation of safety and trust. And if you don't have that,

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:42Dr. John Delony?

  You know?

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Right. And I have a 16 year old daughter. I don't want her to think that this is,

• 3:52Speaker 01

  you know, a normal way to handle this kind of situation.

• 3:56Dr. John Delony?

  Well, there's not a normal way.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:59Dr. John Delony?

  There's the next right way, right?

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:02Dr. John Delony?

  And so I think that, I don't want your 16 year old to think getting treated like this is normal.

• 4:10Dr. John Delony?

  All right, because it's, I mean, yeah, it's not, I don't want her to think this is good. Let's take the word normal off the table. I don't want her to think this is good. I don't want her to look up and see, like, I don't want to have a model for this is what relationships are supposed to feel like inside of a home.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:29Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 4:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:31Dr. John Delony?

  I don't want my mom having to worry if she's contracting an STI every other weekend.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:38Dr. John Delony?

  I don't want her to absorb seeing her stepdad flip over his phone every time somebody walks in their room.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:47Dr. John Delony?

  Or his mom planting secret recording devices in the car. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I don't want her growing up in that.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:53Dr. John Delony?

  But I don't want that for you.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, right. And that's the thing. Like, I feel so embarrassed that that's what it came down to, but I knew I wouldn't get the truth.

• 5:02Dr. John Delony?

  No, don't be, I mean, don't be embarrassed about, you did what you thought you had to do, and you got the information you needed. And so

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:08Dr. John Delony?

  you didn't hire a private investigator. You became one. It is what it is. So I

• 5:15Speaker 01

  I just feel really stuck in the way that, like, he apologizes.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  And he makes it sound like so real, but I just can't.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  I can't trust it. I feel like

• 5:31Speaker 01

  after a year of this is where we're already at.

• 5:35Dr. John Delony?

  Did it happen before you got married?

• 5:38Speaker 01

  Um, I, I think he's probably done it before.

• 5:42Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  Before we got, I just didn't know.

• 5:44Dr. John Delony?

  What makes you think that?

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Because I don't think you tell somebody that you love them.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  You know, just after a couple of dates or a couple of months.

• 6:00Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. People say, people say crazy things. You might not. Some people, other people might. Right? So

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:07Dr. John Delony?

  I

• 6:08Speaker 01

  But he and I didn't say that to each other a couple of weeks after, you know? It took time. We built a relationship and

• 6:15Dr. John Delony?

  How long have you all been together?

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Three years.

• 6:18Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 6:20Dr. John Delony?

  And you have a 16 year old daughter. Have you had your heart broken before?

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I was married for almost 20 years to her father.

• 6:27Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Um, he was an alcoholic.

• 6:30Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  And that was a painful divorce. I have a 21 year old son as well, so.

• 6:35Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So how much of this is, oh, bloody hell, here we go again?

• 6:43Speaker 01

  None of it, because I really, in my heart of hearts, I really love him.

• 6:48Dr. John Delony?

  No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, how much of you wanting to hang on to this thing, or even entertain it?

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:57Dr. John Delony?

  Here's what you're telling me. You're telling me, I'm pretty sure this has happened while we were dating.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:04Dr. John Delony?

  I've got it confirmed that just one year into the marriage, he's already leaving and having secret, like, not only physical affairs, but like, he's, his heart is with somebody else.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:18Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm not getting the full truth. I'll never get the full truth. So on that one side, you're telling me, this, this marriage is over. We might, can build another one, but this thing doesn't exist. And in fact, if I, if I look with clarity to the past, it's never existed.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:37Dr. John Delony?

  And so, but there's another side of you that has been through the hell that is dividing up a family.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:46Dr. John Delony?

  And moving, and deposits, and splitting, like, court call, like, you've been down that road too.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:53Dr. John Delony?

  And that, that's what I'm asking. How much of that experience of like, oh God, we have to do that again, is clouding this situation?

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Probably like 50%.

• 8:04Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Because I'm terrified.

• 8:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:08Dr. John Delony?

  And so, I want you to be honest about, if, if I choose to stay, and I choose just to take his word for it, you're never gonna have peace, ever.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:20Dr. John Delony?

  You know that.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:21Dr. John Delony?

  I know that. We all know that.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know that. Mm-hmm.

• 8:24Dr. John Delony?

  And if you choose to stay because of how hard and complicated and heartbreaking it would be to leave, I want you to just own that.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:32Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna choose the hell I know because of the hell that I don't know.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:37Dr. John Delony?

  And if somebody's-

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just don't, I don't want to be, you know, I'm already 40, 45. I don't want to be 55, rebuilding my life again. I'd rather-

• 8:48Speaker 01

  You know, keep my peace and save myself all those years of heartache down the line.

• 8:54Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I think that's right. Or if, I mean, yeah. If, if, if this, so let me, let me go at this problem from another angle. 100% I believe couples who experience infidelity can come back together and build something new. I wouldn't do this show if I didn't believe that. They can't. They cannot if it doesn't start from a scorched earth honesty.

• 9:22Dr. John Delony?

  And if the other person doesn't wake up for an extended season saying, "I will own the bridge building that has to happen here. I imploded the trust, and so you hand me a map and I'll follow it."

• 9:39Dr. John Delony?

  No Mexico for a year? Done. Easy. What's next? You want the passcode to my phone? Done. What's next? You want to pull a credit report every two weeks to see if I have another phone line somewhere else? Done. Easy. What's next? Like, right?

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, he already won't let me look at his phone.

• 9:55Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, then what he's telling you is, "You're stupid. I think you're dumb, and I don't care how you feel. Just trust me, and then let me live my life."

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:09Dr. John Delony?

  And so I'll say it this way. The day of reckoning will come, one way or the other.

• 10:17Dr. John Delony?

  I'm with you. If the day of reckoning is coming, I'd rather have it happen now.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 10:25Dr. John Delony?

  So you, you have to get clear about what would be true, what must be true, for him to do, to rebuild trust. And hand him that piece of paper. And then he gets to be a big boy and decide, he made big boy choice, big boy choices, so he gets to be a big boy, a grown up man, grown man and make choices. "I will not walk that path."

• 10:47Dr. John Delony?

  Or "I will walk that path."

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:52Dr. John Delony?

  And that's if you even want to stay.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:55Dr. John Delony?

  But you don't, you don't need, you don't need my permission to leave. You don't need my permission to stay.

• 11:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  I just want the clarity. Like, I want somebody to, like, talk through it like this and and tell me, like, it's okay. I'm not crazy.

• 11:10Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, you're not crazy. No.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not crazy.

• 11:13Dr. John Delony?

  No.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  And it's not an unreasonable request to say, hey, let me see your phone.

• 11:19Dr. John Delony?

  If someone's sneaking off to Mexico for romantic rendezvous with someone they say I love, no. Not crazy.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, because that's how he makes me feel. He says, I just want to be a victim and I want to stir the pot. And I'm like, this is literally like two days old. I don't want to stir the pot. I want to feel safe.

• 11:41Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, jeez. Yeah, this is another example of Gaslight 101.

• 11:50Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna go do whatever I want, whenever I want. I'm gonna blame you for feeling weird about it, or bad about it, or for challenging me on it.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:58Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, his response was, we've already talked about this. I apologized. How long are you gonna make me pay for this? And I said, this is literally like two, this is, I told you on Saturday. Today's Sunday.

• 12:12Dr. John Delony?

  Here's the language. You blew up our home. You destroyed it.

• 12:20Dr. John Delony?

  It's gonna be a minute.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:23Dr. John Delony?

  And if me talking about how much you hurt me and our daughter, and how much you blew up our home?

• 12:32Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:32Dr. John Delony?

  If that's such an affront to you, then I understand where you place me in the order of importance of your life. But yeah, I mean, I mean, the marriage I had doesn't exist. It's over. It's over. The question is, do you want to rebuild one with somebody who's just gonna be dismissive of you, treat you like you're stupid, and get mad at you 24 or 48 hours after he gets caught lying? Well, I mean, that's brazen, even for brazen, folks. Wow. Yeah, I'm sorry. Sorry, Angelina. That's heartbreaking.

• 13:15Dr. John Delony?

  I think it would be wise to call an attorney and figure out where, what your, what the path looks like. And if you learned any lessons from your divorce, from your, from your first husband, make sure you put those on, down on paper in front of your attorney. And I hate that you'll go through this again. I hate it, hate it, hate it, hate it. But you're worth more than this. Your daughter's worth more than this. This guy is worth more than this.

• 13:42Dr. John Delony?

  What an absolute mess. Thanks for the call, sister. I'm so sorry. We'll be heartbroken with you. When we come back, a woman asks how to care for her mother without resentment after being forced to do wild things as a child.

• 13:59Dr. John Delony?

  Everything, and I mean, everything feels like it's off the rails. I've spent my entire career working in chaotic situations, and I've never seen anything like what's going on in our world today, right now. I want to challenge you to stop consuming all of the news, all the chaos and stress and sports scores 24 seven, 365. And I want you to consider spiritually grounding yourself in the morning and in the evening before you launch out into the madness and after you return from the madness. One of the ways I keep myself spiritually grounded in my faith is by using the Hallow app almost every single morning. Hallow is the number one Christian prayer meditation app in the world. The

• 14:43Dr. John Delony?

  app has everything from scripture readings to music to meditations to lecture series, stories and more. Hallow is worth checking out as a way to start your day and as a way to end your day. Try Hallow for free for three months at hallow.com slash Deloney and take back your soul, take back your sanity, take back your life. That's three months for free at hallow.com slash Deloney.

• 15:13Dr. John Delony?

  This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and according to the National Institute of Mental Health, more than 1 in 5 US adults suffer from mental illness every year. And nearly half of folks never get any kind of help. And these aren't just statistics. These are your brothers and sisters and parents and kids. These are my family members and friends and neighbors. These are real people. These are you and me. And we're living in this non-stop noise, screens, comparisons, constant notifications world, and our bodies are on high alert all the time. We're overwhelmed and lonely. It's so, so much. And this stress shows up in our relationships, our sleep, and our health.

• 15:57Dr. John Delony?

  We were never meant to carry all of this madness alone. Talking to somebody can help. I want you to talk to my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and your preferences. Their therapists are fully licensed in the United States and they follow a strict code of conduct. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform, and if it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime at no additional cost. Cut through all the noise and stop carrying all of this alone. Go to betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash deloney.

• 16:39Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go out to Toronto, Ontario, and talk to Jackie. Hey Jackie, what's up?

• 16:46Speaker 02

  Hi, how are you today?

• 16:47Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing okay. How are you?

• 16:50Speaker 02

  I'm gonna get super vulnerable in a minute, and it scares me to death, so I'm awesome, pretty awesome, yeah.

• 16:57Dr. John Delony?

  Well, I am really honored that you called, and I appreciate your willingness to be vulnerable. It's just you and me and a couple million other people, that's it.

• 17:07Speaker 02

  Okay, so, uh, my current situation is I have an 88-year-old mom who had a stroke last year. It was one year after my dad passed, which left her unable to speak. So...

• 17:24Speaker 02

  I take care of her. She lives in an assisted living place. So I go over every day at lunch and make sure she has things, take her shopping. We go to church together and do all those things. And I find myself feeling resentful.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  Because she didn't take care of my sister and I too well when we were kids. And my dad wanted to go to a nudist camp. So that time I was nine and my sister was 13. And we were told, we have to keep this secret. We're not allowed to tell anybody where we go. I would watch my dad don one of my mom's wigs driving down the road to get there because he didn't want anyone to see us driving in there or assume it was them. And it wasn't until, actually, I had granddaughters that I thought,

• 18:27Speaker 02

  hang on, I would never do that to them. And that was a pretty vulnerable thing or place to put kids in. And I felt-

• 18:42Dr. John Delony?

  That's abuse, huh?

• 18:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:49Dr. John Delony?

  That's, I mean, that is horrific abuse.

• 19:00Dr. John Delony?

  That goes well, well beyond vulnerable. Forcing a nine-year-old and a 13-year-old to go spend time at a nudist camp.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:13Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. It's a grotesque abuse.

• 19:18Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm heartbroken and sorry.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, it makes sense why I do the things I do or I am the way I am now.

• 19:32Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about those things.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  Well, they used to, I questioned them once and said, why did you take us there? Like that is a pretty hedonistic kind of place.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  And she said, you had fun. You guys laughed, you played with the other kids, you always had fun. And then I thought afterwards, well, you were gaslighting me my whole life already. And it makes me feel incredible body shame to the point where I'm uncomfortable. When I get out of the shower and I'm naked, I cover myself up right away.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  And with intimacy, I've always got to have some clothing on me. And I'd like to not feel that way. And but I'm now, I think, well, I'm already 63 years old. And but I still want to, I don't want to feel that way anymore. And I'm doing so much to, and I shouldn't because it's not the Christian thing to do, to think, why am I killing myself every day, running and helping you to the point of exhaustion? Because my sister moved far away, she can't be here to help.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  When you didn't have the simple courtesy to keep us safe.

• 21:11Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, let me challenge you on a few things, okay? Thing number one, I don't care how old you are. You're worth being unshackled from the abuse and the madness you experienced as a little girl.

• 21:28Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 21:30Dr. John Delony?

  You're worth that. Are you married now?

• 21:35Speaker 02

  I am actually with a man and we are planning to get married.

• 21:40Dr. John Delony?

  Gross. Is he awesome?

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Oh God, he's amazing. He tells me how beautiful I am all the time and never pushes me.

• 21:47Dr. John Delony?

  It's awesome.

• 21:50Dr. John Delony?

  Not for him. He'll benefit. But not for him, for you. I want you to make an appointment with a trauma therapist tomorrow, okay?

• 22:01Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 22:01Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to call that trauma therapist and say you've grew up in an abusive, sexually abusive household.

• 22:10Dr. John Delony?

  And you're ready, once and for all, to be free.

• 22:15Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 22:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:19Dr. John Delony?

  Be free.

• 22:23Dr. John Delony?

  Cause you're not-

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Shackles is a great word to use. That's exactly how I feel.

• 22:32Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And here's the thing, you can't think your way to this kind of freedom.

• 22:38Dr. John Delony?

  It has to be experienced through your body with the help of somebody who knows what they're doing, who's trained and licensed and will walk with you. Okay?

• 22:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 22:46Dr. John Delony?

  But I'll tell you, there's profound freedom that you don't know exists on the other side. Okay?

• 22:52Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 22:52Dr. John Delony?

  That's, that's challenge number one. Here's challenge number two. There is nothing un-Christian about being frustrated. There's nothing un-Christian about thinking, "Why am I doing this?" Well, not only did you not help us growing up, you put us in incredibly abusive situations, then you blamed us for thinking it was unsafe and weird.

• 23:21Speaker 02

  Thank you for saying that.

• 23:22Dr. John Delony?

  There's nothing un-Christian about that. You're not a bad person, okay? You're a human being.

• 23:32Dr. John Delony?

  You're a human being.

• 23:36Dr. John Delony?

  The questions that

• 23:39Dr. John Delony?

  in no way, shape, form, or fashion at all in any way am I trying to make an excuse by what I'm about to say, okay?

• 23:46Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:46Dr. John Delony?

  I'm just trying to provide a context, all right?

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm, yeah.

• 23:52Dr. John Delony?

  Who knows

• 23:55Dr. John Delony?

  what hell your grandmother, I mean, your mother was living in?

• 23:59Speaker 02

  Oh, I know she was. She was incredibly submissive. And I would watch it and then I would call my dad out on it. And, and then I would be told to sit and mind my place. And it's between the two of them, but I could see,

• 24:22Speaker 02

  it's, it's amazing you brought that up because when she stopped talking after her stroke and people asked her questions, she just shrugged her shoulders and I thought, wow, that's exactly what you did when dad was alive. You just shrugged your shoulder and nodded yes. So I'm sure she went through hell as well.

• 24:44Dr. John Delony?

  So maybe you have a great picture of what she grew up, I mean, what she lived in.

• 24:52Dr. John Delony?

  Similar to her as a stroke victim.

• 24:57Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And here's why I tell you that. Not to excuse, the way she's lied to you over the years, not to excuse the fact that she didn't throw you and your sister in a car and drive as far away from that man as possible, all those things. Right? I'm not trying to excuse that at all.

• 25:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:13Dr. John Delony?

  She has culpability and responsibility as an adult with children to protect her kids.

• 25:20Dr. John Delony?

  And it was 50 years ago. Culture was different, times were different. Police were, like, everything was different, right?

• 25:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:31Dr. John Delony?

  And so the question is less about tit for tat. Why didn't you do this? So should I do that? I want you to ask yourself this question. At 61 years of age,

• 25:48Dr. John Delony?

  who do you want to be in the world?

• 25:57Dr. John Delony?

  Because I think the care of your mother moving forward is gonna say a lot more about you than it does about her.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I won't leave her.

• 26:07Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  I'll see that all through and then I won't regret something else again.

• 26:17Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. And the way you just said that is really important, okay? So don't lose this.

• 26:23Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:27Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna stop letting her drive.

• 26:31Dr. John Delony?

  I get to choose from today forward who I am gonna be in this world. Period.

• 26:39Dr. John Delony?

  I'm a strong, grown-ass woman that can do whatever I want to. And I'm not gonna let her take away my dignity and my honor and my sense of responsibility as a woman who says, "I'm not gonna leave my mom by herself."

• 26:56Dr. John Delony?

  She didn't get that too.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 27:00Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 27:00Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 27:01Dr. John Delony?

  And again, I'm putting words in your mouth, if that's what you think and believe.

• 27:05Speaker 02

  I do believe that. I do, and I can't imagine being locked in her body right now and how frustrating it is. And she works at it and she tries and, I mean, after that situation was done, she actually flourished a little bit after my dad died and started talking and telling me stories that I... From her childhood, she actually had a voice. And she got to speak and I'm so sad that her voice got taken away.

• 27:38Dr. John Delony?

  Can y'all start a journaling thing together? Can she write?

• 27:41Speaker 02

  No, she can't write.

• 27:42Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  She can't write anymore. I, I, I'm so good at 20 questions though, like I'll take anyone on now. Like I've gotten very good at figuring out what she wants through our conversations. I also have an autistic granddaughter who doesn't speak. So sometimes I, I talk a lot in a day and, um, but, uh, well, that girl was just showing me how to live my life. Honestly, she's, she's my hero.

• 28:11Dr. John Delony?

  That's awesome.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  Um, and sometimes you don't need words. So I think the show's actions will speak louder.

• 28:19Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And so I, I, I don't want you, you can do what you want. Okay. If, if I find myself in your situation and then layer on, like if I find one of my parents, I find myself taking care of them and I don't, I don't have the abuse layers you've got. Um, but I would want to ask myself while looking in the mirror, who do I want to know myself to be? And I'm going to go do those things.

• 28:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:52Dr. John Delony?

  And it sounds like

• 28:52Speaker 02

  That's a really good answer.

• 28:53Dr. John Delony?

  You're saying, I'm a kind of person that's just going to get in there and get it done. Cause when my mom passes, I'm going to remember myself as someone who honored a woman who didn't even bother to honor me when I was a little kid.

• 29:10Dr. John Delony?

  Or you may find some stories or some diary entries somewhere or something. Um, maybe in her own best way possible, she could do without getting her head knocked off. She protected us the best she knew how to do in the situation she found herself.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:27Dr. John Delony?

  In a time and a place when the only thing people cared less about kids was women.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  That would be great. I, I, I, I do see it in her eyes.

• 29:45Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And here's the thing, if you're not gonna leave her,

• 29:51Dr. John Delony?

  if you're not gonna just stop going, this is gonna sound nuts, I'm about to tell you, okay?

• 29:57Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 29:58Dr. John Delony?

  I would spend no more than 1.2 seconds a day being upset with her because you being upset with her doesn't change what you're about to do during the day. It can erase the past and it's not gonna change her. All choosing anger, running the story back, the frustration that you never, why didn't you ever, all of that stuff, and it becomes a choice to be miserable doing the things you are already gonna do today.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's...

• 30:30Dr. John Delony?

  And so I'm not gonna choose misery. I'm gonna choose joy. So I'm gonna celebrate myself, and nobody's ever celebrated you except for this new knucklehead, and I'm glad he's in your life, but I, I am gonna celebrate. I'm gonna put three or four things I'm grateful for about me. And that's not un-Christian, that is you honoring this person that you said God loves you. I'm gonna honor that person. God thinks I'm worth being loved, then, then for crying out loud, I can love me too.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's hard.

• 30:59Dr. John Delony?

  It's real hard.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  But I can do it. Yeah.

• 31:02Dr. John Delony?

  It's real hard.

• 31:02Speaker 02

  I, I, I will, I will work to that, to that.

• 31:06Dr. John Delony?

  And here's what trauma healing is gonna do. It's not going to erase what happened.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  No.

• 31:10Dr. John Delony?

  And there's probably things that you will uncover during this process that will be really heavy and overwhelming. Fair?

• 31:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:21Dr. John Delony?

  Um, what it will allow you to do is, when you step out of the shower, your body won't go into panic mode.

• 31:32Dr. John Delony?

  It won't go into frantic grasping for the towel to cover up.

• 31:39Dr. John Delony?

  It will you being able to be reckless and uninhibited with this new husband of yours who loves you like to the moon and back.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  He does, and that would be a gift.

• 31:54Dr. John Delony?

  But the gift of freedom will be for you. He'll be a direct beneficiary of that gift, right? But the gift will be your body doesn't try to go to war and protect you every time it feels like you're exposed like you were when you were nine.

• 32:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:11Speaker 02

  That makes sense. I was trying to always figure out, why do I feel the opposite of the thing that I did?

• 32:17Dr. John Delony?

  Because your body put a GPS pin in, "People are looking at me."

• 32:23Dr. John Delony?

  And the adults in the room are supposed to protect you from that moment, and they didn't. They exposed you further.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  So the freedom that it was supposed to give turned into the shackles later in life?

• 32:40Dr. John Delony?

  There is no freedom for a nine-year-old at a nudist colony. I mean, that, you know, that's just insanity. It's madness. It's terrifying.

• 32:51Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, I mean, I don't even have words for that. But yeah, your body's been trying to protect you for the last 50 years because there were no adults in your life that were going to protect you as they should. So your body said, "All right, I'm the only one. I wish you nothing but healing and freedom and just a reckless fun, fun, you need fun, life with this man that's coming to your world. And I just wish you guys the absolute best." Thank you so, so much for the call.

• 33:25Dr. John Delony?

  All right, when we come back, a man asks how to support his wife through her severe depression and anxiety. We'll be right back.

• 33:34Dr. John Delony?

  I love doing this show because I get to talk to so many amazing people from all over the world. Y'all are building new routines, setting new relationship boundaries, showing up in your lives, trying to create non-anxious worlds. And so many people I talk to are neglecting one really important part of your life. This thing that's happening in the background in your digital world that all of us seem to live in. This is why I use and recommend Delete Me. Your phone number, your home address, your family's information, photos of your family members and your kids, all this stuff is just floating around online, sitting on data broker websites, and they're buying and selling your information to other creepy people and they're

• 34:18Dr. John Delony?

  using it against you. It's time to put an end to people stealing your personal information and selling it without you knowing it. Delete Me finds your personal information online and they remove it for you. Not just once, they keep monitoring for your information and they keep cleaning it up month after month. This helps you close the gap between what you think is private and what actually is. You can't build this non-anxious life if a big chunk of your life is exposed and out in the open behind the scenes. Go to joindelete.me/deloney and get 20% off an annual plan. That's joindelete.me/deloney.

• 35:00Dr. John Delony?

  All right, take 30 seconds and hit all the subscribe buttons and likes and all the stuff. I'm really grateful for those who just take a second and support us in that way. Let's go to Rochester, New Hampshire and talk to Dan the Man. What's up, Dan?

• 35:18Speaker 03

  Hey, hey, yeah, thank you so much for taking my call.

• 35:22Dr. John Delony?

  You got it, my brother. What's up?

• 35:25Speaker 03

  So, um, yeah, honestly, I feel honestly conscious like a little bit like lost in the woods. Uh, just with with everything. So, um, I've been married, uh, about eight and a half years. Uh, to my wonderful wife. We have two kids. Um, you know, a little, uh, both toddlers. And, uh, I'd say kind of like on the overall on the outside, like things are, things are good. Um, but it's, it started off really small. Um, you know, uh, kind of early on in our marriage. Um, that my wife's anxiety especially kind of started like ticking up.

• 36:09Speaker 03

  Um, like her depression started ticking up. Um, and we would, you know, like she would do like therapy. She'd, you know, uh, later started with a psychiatrist and going through those. But just over the years, it just has, has ramped up, has ramped up, has ramped up. Uh, we'd have, you know, high risk pregnancies and, um, postpartum was just a whopper for her. And, and then it never went away. It was just that became the new normal as far as the depression and everything that, that, that it brought. And, yeah, it's just, it just, it, for me, um, just looking on.

• 36:55Speaker 03

  I just feel so powerless with so much of it. That, you know, like I, there's so few times now and it's, and it's been like almost five years that, um, depression has gone to the point where, um, it's a, it, it's, um, I don't, I don't know what I, I can say, but, uh, you know, self harm, uh, and things start to come into play. And

• 37:24Dr. John Delony?

  She, is she, is she, is she suicidal?

• 37:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:29Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 37:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:30Dr. John Delony?

  Actively?

• 37:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:32Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 37:33Speaker 03

  Um, like a week ago, I

• 37:37Speaker 03

  Like I walked in on her with my kid right before we put her to bed, put him to bed. And it was probably seconds before she was gonna try.

• 37:50Speaker 03

  And it was just hap- it just happened that we walked in. And, um, and we, you know, we took her to Christ and said, like, we did everything. Um, she's getting treatments, she, we're doing everything, but, um,

• 38:05Speaker 03

  yeah, it just feels like I'm just along for the ride.

• 38:09Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 38:09Speaker 03

  And that despite how much I love and encourage, it's nothing I can do.

• 38:19Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. So,

• 38:23Dr. John Delony?

  this is not an apples to apples comparison, okay? Um, but I want you to use this as an analogy, all right? If she had contracted stomach cancer,

• 38:37Dr. John Delony?

  you would have that same feeling of powerlessness?

• 38:41Dr. John Delony?

  Like, I can't do anything, I can take you to the doctor, I can't, I can't heal you from this, what you have in your guts.

• 38:49Dr. John Delony?

  But it would be minus the shame, it would be minus that you look in the mirror and saying, why can't I love you so that you feel less anxious? Why can't I love you enough so that you feel less depressed?

• 39:04Dr. John Delony?

  And that's the part I want you to let go in this season, okay? Because it's not about you not loving her well, it's not about you loving her with all the skills you got, all the tools you got in your toolkit. It's about her being sick, she's not well right now. Okay? And so the powerlessness is real. The sense that this is always gonna be this way, and is this the marriage I'm gonna have for the rest of my life? And then the guilt you feel by even asking that question, or thinking that question, um, I want you to set that kind of stuff down right now, okay?

• 39:39Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 39:40Dr. John Delony?

  It's like, if you were to come see me privately, if you were to, um, if you were a friend of mine, I would suggest she needs inpatient treatment

• 39:53Dr. John Delony?

  right away.

• 39:55Dr. John Delony?

  And I know that that's almost impossible, logistically with two young kids. You're probably working a full-time job. It's chaos, it's whatever. It is a hellish price to pay in the short term for the potential of real long-term healing in your home and in her heart, mind, and spirit. Okay?

• 40:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:15Dr. John Delony?

  But that's where I think we are.

• 40:21Dr. John Delony?

  This is beyond pharmacology at this point. This is gonna take a whole system of support.

• 40:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think so. And it's because it's the

• 40:38Speaker 03

  because like your analogy, like if it was, you know, heaven forbid, anyone, you know, cancer or car accident, you know, some kind of, you know, other physical injury or things

• 40:52Speaker 03

  like, um, there's a, there's a wound, you know, there's a scar, there's literally, you know, there's, there's the cancer in you and they can watch it and they can track it and they can treat it and, um, but this is with it being mental.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  It just is so hard because she can have good days, like, and her good days aren't, aren't great. Uh, it's been so many years, I think she's, I honestly believe she's forgotten what it's like to not feel hopeless and depressed.

• 41:29Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  Like to think, if I ask her, like, what do you have planned today? Um, she's not able to answer that.

• 41:37Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 41:37Speaker 03

  Um, she's just like, I'm just, I'm just going like I'm, I'm not planning on anything in the future because she, the depression like it, it's causing her not to, to really see it or see yourself there. But with, with the mental, she can have like that traumatic, traumatic night we had, where I had to take her to the crisis center and everything, you know, and they had her overnight. The next day, they discharged her.

• 42:07Speaker 03

  And for all intents and purposes, life went back to normal. She was back home. She like, we went back to our normal habits, you know? Obviously added, you know, precautions and, you know, medications and things. But for me, it's, it felt like, like waking up from a bad dream.

• 42:30Dr. John Delony?

  Right.

• 42:31Speaker 03

  But instead of saying like, oh wow, that was a bad dream. I'm glad it's over. It's like, no, the entire world, like, everything's gone back to normal. But I experienced this thing she did and it's

• 42:42Dr. John Delony?

  Nothing is normal.

• 42:43Speaker 03

  But it's like, also never happened.

• 42:44Dr. John Delony?

  Nothing is normal.

• 42:45Speaker 03

  It's just

• 42:46Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, you're not crazy.

• 42:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:48Dr. John Delony?

  You're not crazy. Nothing is normal. Everything's different now. Okay?

• 42:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:56Dr. John Delony?

  Can I be real blunt with you?

• 42:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, please.

• 42:59Dr. John Delony?

  You walked in on your wife about to take her life or attempt to take her life to die by suicide in front of your young child. There's zero normal about that.

• 43:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:14Dr. John Delony?

  She's very, very sick. Okay? And you're not crazy for being frustrated with the mental health support systems we have in this country? You're not crazy for being super frustrated? You're just sending her back home?

• 43:33Speaker 03

  Yep. Yeah.

• 43:37Dr. John Delony?

  You're not crazy that she is trying to play, perform the role of normal mom and wife to the best of her abilities? And you kind of thinking, what are, what are we doing? We're just going right back to, we're just gonna pretend like that didn't happen?

• 43:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:58Dr. John Delony?

  You're not crazy, okay?

• 44:01Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 44:02Dr. John Delony?

  The, the boldness you need here is, um.

• 44:10Dr. John Delony?

  To remind her, to tell her, to say, "I love you enough. I love our kids enough." That I want us to hit pause on this charade we're all playing. And the best way I can love you right now is to support you getting well. And the need you have to get well exceed what anyone in this home can do. And so I've made arrangements for you to go visit somebody, or to go do inpatient for 30 or 60 days where you can rest, you can sleep, and you can get a glimpse of what it looks like to hope again.

• 44:54Dr. John Delony?

  What it looks like to feel good again. Right?

• 45:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:05Dr. John Delony?

  And your understanding of major depression is more accurate than most. She doesn't have a picture of the future with her in it. She doesn't have a lived feeling, or a lived experience of what it feels like to feel good. And so there's nothing to aim for, right? Like if I blew my knee out tomorrow, I would have a memory of what it felt like to walk and go jogging with no pain. I would be looking forward to getting to that. That doesn't exist for her.

• 45:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:40Dr. John Delony?

  And now we have somebody who's actively trying to hurt herself. Or really what she's trying to do is to stop all this hurt. An inpatient is insanely expensive.

• 45:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:00Dr. John Delony?

  I don't know how you'll navigate childcare. I don't know how you'll navigate, I don't know how you'll do any of that stuff. You have to call in every friend in favor, and community member, and family member you got.

• 46:13Dr. John Delony?

  But this is where we're at in your home. And this is what I would tell my wife. I would tell my sister. I would tell my daughter. I would tell my son. I would tell my friends. The exact same thing. This one's too big.

• 46:28Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 46:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:31Dr. John Delony?

  And I think what I don't, what I don't want you to do is to fall prey to this black cloud. And you lose hope too.

• 46:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:45Dr. John Delony?

  And can I tell you something crazy?

• 46:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:47Dr. John Delony?

  I've come to believe hope is an action. It's not a feeling.

• 46:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:52Dr. John Delony?

  It's an orientation. I'm going to keep doing the next right thing because I believe in my guts. It gets better.

• 46:59Dr. John Delony?

  Especially when I don't feel like it.

• 47:07Dr. John Delony?

  So I'm going to make sure I exercise. I'm going to make sure that I call in every helping professional I can to support and love my wife. I'm going to call my neighbors and ask for help getting kids to school and back and stuff like that. I'm going to ask my local church for help with free childcare because I don't have any more money.

• 47:27Dr. John Delony?

  We're going to ask everybody for everything. I'm going to reach out. By the way, you'll be honoring other people too by asking them. You'll be giving them purpose and meaning, which is in short supply these days.

• 47:39Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 47:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. No, thank you.

• 47:45Dr. John Delony?

  I'm sorry this is happening to me and to her, to you, to your kids, to everybody.

• 47:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just. It's one of those. Funny, like hindsight is 2020 that like, looking back, it's, it's like, oh, if we would have done this different, like maybe, you know, if I pushed a little more to like have her see

• 48:12Speaker 03

  medical professionals earlier on, you know, years ago, but you know, leaving it up to her, be like, hey, you know, like, you know, make an appointment. She said she would and

• 48:22Speaker 03

  but if I had only like pushed more of this or that and I don't know if it would have moved the needle at all, but it's just such a.

• 48:29Dr. John Delony?

  Here's, here's the thing. I hate to say it like this. This is pretty, pretty abrupt. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. This is you cruising down the highway at 75 miles an hour trying to drive by looking at your rearview mirror. It's unhelpful.

• 48:45Dr. John Delony?

  The only thing, that story's been written, there's a period at the end of that story. The only story you can impact is the one you write next.

• 48:54Dr. John Delony?

  So if you imagine yourself holding a pen, what is that story gonna be?

• 48:59Dr. John Delony?

  "I loved my wife enough to wade in through her pain and her hurt and say, 'We're going to inpatient.'"

• 49:08Dr. John Delony?

  "I got over my concerns with asking people for help and frustration and I started asking everybody."

• 49:17Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 49:21Dr. John Delony?

  "I had to go sit down with my boss and say, 'I need to alter my schedule. I need..." Like, I don't know what you do for a living, but I, what I'm saying is, "I started taking every route possible." That's what the next right thing looks like for you. But it starts with her going to get inpatient treatment.

• 49:36Dr. John Delony?

  For a major depression and for a whole host of things. And there, hopefully, they will give her medical diagnostics, physiological diagnostics, hormone testing, as well as psychiatric pharmacology. They should take care of her and then begin working on

• 49:56Dr. John Delony?

  life overwhelm skills.

• 50:01Dr. John Delony?

  And then y'all will begin to reunite and say, "Okay, how do we build a brand-new marriage together where I'm a part of loving you and honoring you well and you for me?" Because she needs a role too.

• 50:15Dr. John Delony?

  I've seen these situations that go really well.

• 50:19Dr. John Delony?

  Someone goes and gets the help they need, they come out with a whole new perspective on life. And then they rebuild something amazing and cool and this becomes an extraordinary story to tell your great-grandkids one day.

• 50:34Dr. John Delony?

  I also can tell you, if you want to talk about living in the rearview mirror, if something does happen in the interim, it's going to be a weight that you carry that's, I wouldn't wish on anybody. So make the calls that you need to make. And let's get her in somewhere ASAP. Thank you for being a husband who loves his wife well, especially when she's hurting, especially when it's hard. You're a good man, my brother. We'll be right back.

• 51:04Speaker 04

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• 51:46Speaker 04

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• 52:14Speaker 05

  All right, so this is a question that comes from our Together app. These are questions that we have gotten from people that are using the app. But I think this one also is kind of bigger than just the app as well. Explain mental load and what that is, what's its impact?

• 52:33Speaker 04

  As a guy in the United States, mental load is a bunch of bull crap.

• 52:37Speaker 05

  Is this kind of like saying gaslighting doesn't exist?

• 52:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's no gaslighting. Mental load is a bunch of bull crap. No, I'm just kidding.

• 52:47Dr. John Delony?

  Mental load is a, it's a phenomenon that, it's not a phenomenon, that was such a stupid way to say that. It is everything that is, a spouse is carrying, a person is carrying in the background of the day-to-day responsibilities of their life. Here's what I mean. Um, my wife wakes up, the kids have to eat, they have to get to school on time, they go to two different schools, they have two different start times, but this day, one kid has off, but this kid has a late start, and so that means we have to drop them off, one off here, and then I gotta make arrangements to pick this other kid up, because one's got a soccer game, one's got a track meet, and in the background, there's also mother-in-law's coming

• 53:32Dr. John Delony?

  next weekend, John's mom's birthday is coming up, gotta make sure the cards get sent out, and also, I think his sister texted and said this, and also, there's doctor's appointments, and, but, and there's the orthodontist appointment, but I think, one kid has, getting the braces off, and the next one, that's mental load. It's all the stuff that one person is carrying all the time, in addition to, I gotta get to work, I gotta get home, dinner's gotta get made, the yard's gotta get mowed, it's all the stuff that has to happen in the li, in life. Where I've seen mental load a lot, over the last several years especially, is

• 54:10Dr. John Delony?

  it's been couched as a totally, um, gendered thing. Women have this crazy mental load that men don't have. And I posit that it's, men do have a significant mental load, it's just different. And so, when my wife, I remember her, us sitting down and talking about all this stuff, and there was two big components to mental load. Mental load number one is, it never occurred to her that I'm walking around all the time. Closely watching retirement accounts, watching the state of how our city is doing, what is, what's gonna happen if this happens, where is this gonna be? Are we gonna be okay here?

• 54:53Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, there's a guy following us too close over here in this restaurant. Like, when I explained to her me walking into a restaurant with the family, she was stunned. She's like, literally, you have two exits for every time we walk into a restaurant? And you scan the room for any? And I said, yeah, every single time. Like, she didn't know I did that. She thought I was kinda ridiculous. And I laughed and said, well, I think it's kinda ridiculous that you're in your head, you're carrying your own six months from no orthodontist appointments. And so I said, both of us are carrying stuff that the other person doesn't understand, that has varying levels of importance now and in some imaginary future. And so, the second part of this that was hard is I said, why don't you just write down all the school start times, all the doctors, all their phone numbers and stuff like that

• 55:36Dr. John Delony?

  that you're carrying, and we'll tape it somewhere in multiple places in the house, and I'll take a picture of it, and I'll always have it on my phone. And there was a strange sense, she smiled and she's like, but then what will I carry? And so it was this, also this sense of identity, like, I'm the one that keeps all this together. And if I was to say, hey, will you look at these retirement accounts with me once a month? I would feel like, well, I mean, that's kinda, that's kinda my job. My job is the one to get dramatic and come up with future scenarios that are never gonna happen and try to solve them in the present, that's what I do. And so, mental load is, for couples, I think it's important that everybody take regular times, and the Together app is wired into this. If there's one thing, that's the most important part of the Together app is the weekly rundown.

• 56:22Dr. John Delony?

  What does this week look like? Coming up financially, calendar-wise, we gonna put sex on the calendar? Like, what is happening this week? And where do we put what we're carrying? What's the mental load? Can I help with cards for birthdays? Can we text this year instead of writing handmade cards? Are there flights that we need to buy? Are there doctor appointments I need to draw? Like, let's put all that stuff out of our heads and on paper, and we'll share it together, and then we'll divide and conquer. And it's not getting any identity about, look what I'm carrying versus what you're Carrying and also it's being honest about, hey, these things gotta get done and both people need to hop in there and get it done. Man, you're talking about freeing your whole life. It's amazing.

• 57:05Dr. John Delony?

  Once my wife and I started sharing mental load stuff, it's been transformative. We both walk lighter. We don't have less crap to do, but I can pick up the slack more. She doesn't feel obligated to carry all the stuff and I'm sure not carrying as much of this existential garbage I always carry around.

• 57:22Speaker 05

  So does the app walk you through that?

• 57:23Dr. John Delony?

  Yes, like it walks you through the weekly rundown, which is a weekly thing that everybody should do in your marriage. And it gives you prompts at different, different stages, different activities to talk about mental load today. Let's discuss this thing. Let's have this conversation about this piece of thing. So yeah, it's perfect for that. Awesome. You don't have any mental load, do you?

• 57:46Speaker 05

  No, no, none whatsoever. No.

• 57:49Dr. John Delony?

  Here we go. Dialing up the drama, it's Kelly. Oh.

• 57:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, a little bit. Just, you know. See? Don't go there.

• 58:04Dr. John Delony?

  I can't get there. It's 400 years ago. Love you, bye.