#772 Free Market Solution To A Broken Cost Of Capital w/ Dylan LeClair

Dylan LeClair is the Senior Market Analyst at UTXO Management, a digital asset fund investing in the analog to digital transformation of money and the emergent financial system. In this conversation, we discuss bitcoin, on-chain metrics, market structure, and what to expect from the rest of the bitcoin bull market. ======================= Bitcoin 2022 is the LARGEST Bitcoin event in the world that takes place April 6th - 9th in Miami Beach, Florida. All four days will be jammed-packed with exclusive content, exciting announcements and an incredible lineup of bitcoin speakers, artists and leaders. Day 1 is INDUSTRY DAY for enterprising bitcoiners who are looking to build a business or career within the ecosystem. Days 2 and 3 are general conference days featuring speakers like El Salvador President Nayib Bukele, CEOs like Michael Saylor, Elizabeth Stark, Jack Mallers, Adam Back and hundreds more. The conference caps off on the fourth day with the world's first and largest Bitcoin Music Festival - Sound Money Fest headlined by rapper and fellow bitcoiner Logic, featuring artists K. Flay, MØ, Royal & the Serpent, Apashe, Asadi and more. Stay tuned for the upcoming lineup announcement! Last year’s conference SOLD OUT and this year’s is on pace to be 3x larger so make sure you grab your tickets before it's too late. Visit b.tc/conference to learn more. Ticket prices increase on JAN 14th, use promo code POMP for 10% off and I will see you in Miami!ire ecosystem bringing utility to #NFTs. ======================= Brave Wallet is the first secure crypto wallet built natively in a web3 crypto browser. No extension required. Store, manage, and grow your portfolio, get NFT & multi-chain support, and more. Download the Brave privacy browser at brave.com/Pomp, and click the wallet icon to get started. =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Dylan Leclerc is the Senior Market Analyst at UTXO Management. He also writes a newsletter with Bitcoin Magazine. In this conversation, we talk about Bitcoin, on-chain metrics, we talk about Bitcoin's price, the market structure, and what to expect in the coming weeks. I really enjoyed this conversation with Dylan, and I hope you do as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. Today's episode is sponsored by the Bitcoin 2022 Conference. Bitcoin 2022 is the largest Bitcoin event in the world that takes place April 6th through the 9th in Miami Beach, Florida.

• 0:44Anthony Pompliano?

  All four days will be jam-packed with exclusive content, exciting announcements, and an incredible lineup of Bitcoin speakers, artists, and leaders. Day one is Industry Day for enterprising Bitcoiners who are looking to build a business or career within the ecosystem. Days two and three are general conference days, featuring speakers like El Salvador President Nayib Bukele, CEOs like Michael Saylor, Elizabeth Stark, Jack Mahlers, Adam Back, and hundreds more. The conference caps off on the fourth day with the world's first and largest Bitcoin music festival, Sound Money Fest, headlined by rapper and fellow Bitcoiner Logic, featuring artists K-Fle, Mo, Royal, and The Serpent, Apache, Asadi, and more. Stay tuned for the upcoming lineup announcement. Last year's conference sold out, and this year's is on

• 1:27Anthony Pompliano?

  pace to be three times larger, so make sure you grab your tickets before it's too late. Visit b.tc/conference to learn more. Again, that's b.tc/conference to learn more. Ticket prices increase on January 14th. Use promo code POMP for 10% off, and I will see you in Miami. Today's episode is brought to you by Fundrise. You all know I believe that the best investors both understand and seek out extreme asymmetry. Fundrise is here to help you do just that. It's the largest direct-to-investor real estate investment platform out there, giving you the opportunity to achieve upside of an asset class previously reserved for institutions and high net worth individuals. That's right, Fundrise is making high-end, private market real estate investing accessible to everyone via an easy-to-

• 2:10Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:53Anthony Pompliano?

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• 3:34Anthony Pompliano?

  to switch to Brave Wallet. Download Brave at brave.com/pomp and click the wallet icon to get started. Again, go download Brave at brave.com/pomp and click the wallet icon to get started.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 4:10Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, let's get into this. So today, our opening slide is the free market solution to a broken cost of capital, which is a awesome. Awesome title for this. Let's get into first, we've got the percentage GDP at weighted average, global debt and as a percentage GDP. What are you looking at here?

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. So this is just the best chart I could find. It seems to be a little bit outdated, but it's just basically aggregate global debt. It's an estimate because there's not, it's not really known, to be honest with, with how the financial system works, the Eurodollar system, fraction of reserve banking. But this is just basically a rough estimate of total global debt and some estimates from people that I speak to say it's much higher around 400 trillion. But either way, you know, a trillion is a million millions. So quite a lot of debt out there. And, you know, if we go to the next slide, we can kind of see what's kind of the problem here when we're talking about a free market solution and being, Bitcoin being that. So this is the 10-year US Treasury bond. For those that aren't really familiar, the dollar is the world's reserve currency. So the US Treasury bond and the

• 5:15Speaker 02

  yield off that is basically kind of the, like, free market rate, or not free market, but the rate that the entire world, the entire financial system goes off of. So this is kind of that, that bedrock that, that the entire global financial system operates on. And so you can see from 1981 all the way to today, the yields have been basically down to the right, a lot of lower highs. And so with every kind of financial crisis, every, every debt crisis, yields plummet and, you know, the kind of the credit binge continues. And this is nominal yield. So this is before inflation. And then the next chart is even a little bit scarier.

• 5:51Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Next one, we've got the real 10-year Treasury bond yield versus the 10-year TIPS. What's this showing us?

• 5:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. So you can just kind of ignore the, the TIPS. But what the real yield is, is it's the same chart that we just showed, but adjusted for inflation, right? So you can think of this, when you, when you borrow money, you're paying an interest rate. And if you, if you, you know, subtract the inflation rate on that debt that you're paying back, what's that yield you're paying on the debt? And so right now, with the US Treasury bond, basically if you buy the US's debt, you give money to the US government in exchange for an interest, an interest payment and getting your money back at the end. Right now, on an annual basis, you get about a minus 5% return. And that's if CPI, that's if the Inflation rate they're reporting is true. And so why is this a problem? Essentially because not only, you know, are we talking about the debt, but every asset in the world,

• 6:39Speaker 02

  every asset has a valuation, has a market cap, has a fair value. It's being valued off of a negative cost of capital, negative real yield. So whether you're talking about Apple stock or, you know, baseball card business or anything, it's being valued with basically a cost of capital or a yield, where real yields across the planet, $300 trillion worth of assets. Even more if you're counting equities and real estate and the whole nine yards, probably five, six, $700 trillion worth of value. It's all being basically valued with this distorted cost of capital because of central banking and because of how far we are in this kind of fiat debt-based monetary system. Rates can't sustainably rise or else the whole thing collapses.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  So we have a problem and I think we have a solution as well.

• 7:25Anthony Pompliano?

  It's absolutely nuts to think about how crazy this has gotten. Your next slide here is Bitcoin, the perpetual futures open interest. What is this showing us and why is this important?

• 7:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I just, you know, this whole kind of slide deck, this whole presentation is to help people kind of understand. One, there's a big problem out there and two, a lot of people throw around Bitcoin as a solution or you'll hear digital gold or, you know, Bitcoin is shorting bonds and you hear all these sorts of analogies. But, and especially with Bitcoin derivatives, there's a lot of confusion out there because these markets are really complex and they move really fast. But really what Bitcoin derivatives and what Bitcoin the bearer asset, which has no yield, right? If you hold Bitcoin in your cold storage, there is no return in Bitcoin terms. You're just holding a digital bearer asset. But with Bitcoin derivatives, that is actually starting to change. And so there's this whole complexity world out there

• 8:20Speaker 02

  that I believe will, in the coming decade or maybe two, disrupt this $300 trillion bond market Ponzi. So perpetual futures, open interest, perpetual futures contract, we've gone over it a couple of times. But I get a lot of DMs, especially after your show's pumped and people are asking me to explain it a little bit further. And so, you know, I figured we could break it. Down a little bit. A perpetual futures contract is just a futures market that never expires and just rolls over. And so there's speculators that are betting on the price of Bitcoin to go up or down through long or shorts. And currently that that market is about, you know, 10 to 20 billion dollars, give or take. So it's still pretty small when you're thinking about, you know, the the hundred to, you know, 500 trillion dollar asset pie.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  But this market has seen incredible growth over the last couple of years, and I think we can expect that going forward.

• 9:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you think that it can continue to grow materially from here? Or is this kind of like the, maybe not the top of the market? But definitely like it's harder to go kind of exponential from where we are like there was such major growth. How much bigger could this market get?

• 9:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, so right now Bitcoin's valued at about, give or take, 900 billion dollars. You know, a lot of people have a lot of different opinions, and I think in terms of percentage growth on a relative basis, it's a lot harder for Bitcoin to say 10x like it did in a year and say 2013. And then, you know, compared to today, when it would take, you know, hundreds of billions, like a trillion, tens of trillions of dollars for that to occur again of capital inflight, but I would suspect that, you know, 100 trillion dollars, you know, valuing Bitcoin at 500,000 dollars is, wait, that's 5 million, I'm sorry, is is basically what I would perceive to be relatively fair, fair value.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  When you consider just the monetary tributes and and kind of the big problem in the world today, right? When I, when I say, when people say, what solution does Bitcoin solve? I tell them the biggest problem in the world, the broken cost of capital. No other, no other market can, no other, you know, product or service or or I guess protocol can solve a 500 trillion dollar problem. You know, it's the biggest problem in the world today.

• 10:30Anthony Pompliano?

  So when we go and we look at the actual futures funding rate, what is the difference here? Like, why is this important to you?

• 10:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, so here we're talking about the cost of capital. And essentially what Bitcoin derivatives are, right, is we have this native bear asset Bitcoin with no yields. And now we have a futures market built on top of it, and there's people that are betting on the price to go down or up. And with every, in a perpetual futures market and in any futures market, for every long, for every buyer, there's a seller, right? There's a contractual obligation. And so depending in the Bitcoin futures market, there's no, there's never more longs or shorts. But these, these players, these speculators can drive the price up or down. So if they're driving, if say speculators in futures market are driving the price higher than the, the spot market price, say the price on Coinbase.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  Well, what's going to happen is there's going to be a funding rate applied to, to basically disincentivize or to tether this, this futures market price to the actual index market or to the spot market. So if there's a, if speculators are really bidding the price of that perpetual futures market contract up, we're going to see his funding is positive. So I applied a seven day moving average to this funding rate over the last two years. And what do you see, right? At the beginning of, say, say, February of 2020, the funding rate every eight hours was 0.88%. But on an annualized basis, that was 96%. So what does that mean? It was saying, you know, over a seven day period, longs were paying shorts 96% to be, to just to hold their position, right?

• 12:03Speaker 02

  So essentially, if you were just, you know, a market participant with some Bitcoin, you could just go short Bitcoin with just a small percentage of your staff, just be market neutral if you wanted to. And you could harvest a 96% yield in the Bitcoin futures market, right? And so I get people don't want to short Bitcoin. But what, what this is saying is that the cost of capital in this market is not centrally planned. There's no board or committee and it's entirely free market dependent. So this happens on the long and short side, and there's massive liquidations that often occur, right? But, but really what this is saying is that we have this native cost of capital that isn't subject to any just board or committee or central planning market. It's completely, completely open and free.

• 12:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Speaking of those liquidations, you have the futures long liquidations and it looks like things were real crazy back in the beginning of 21, but kind of cooled off towards the end of the year.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I threw this up here just to kind of show what happens when dislocations occur, right? So if you think about like the financial crisis of 08 or 2020, every time that there's a 20, 30, maybe 40% drawdown in traditional markets, what happens? You know, the lender of last resort comes in, they bail everybody out in 08, they bought all the bad debt off the bank's balance sheets and pumped a bunch of money into the system to keep it afloat. In Bitcoin, there's the UTXO set, there's the full nodes that are enforcing a hard cap supply. And there is no lender of last resort. You either have Bitcoin, you have enough collateral or you don't.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  And so if, if all of a sudden that margin call comes in Bitcoin or in crypto, in these derivative markets, it's not called the margin call. It's called a liquidation. Basically, your account gets marked at zero and you lost your holdings. And so, you know, this is, this is in steep contrast to the legacy system where often collateral is rehypothecated. And when, you know, a lot of market participants are all hurting at once, a lender of last resort comes in and, you know, bails the system out. And this is, you know, exactly the opposite of what we saw or what we see in Bitcoin all the time, where these huge volatile moves are, you know, occur on a regular basis and any dislocations are wiped out. And so this cost of capital in Bitcoin, although very variable, is entirely free and open.

• 14:19Speaker 02

  And so Bitcoin right now is 900 billion. Aggregate futures open interest, which we'll show on the next slide, is about 20 billion, right? Really small, it's about 2% of the market cap. But what happens when Bitcoin is in a trillion dollar asset and it's a 10 trillion or 100 trillion dollar asset? And this futures market is 200 billion or a $2 trillion market with, with a floating cost of capital. And I suspect that it's really going to force the hand of all of these central banks around the world who, you know, centrally plan their cost of capital, centrally plan these interest rates. I think this will be a kind of a forcing mechanism, almost a check on your responsibility of central planners.

• 14:59Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And then when we start to look at the annualized rolling basis, what is this showing us?

• 15:04Speaker 02

  So this is just similar to the perpetual swaps. We have quarterly futures markets. So say March of 2022, there's a Bitcoin futures contract for that, right? So right now Bitcoin's say at 47,000, the March 2022 contract could trade at say 48,000 or 49,000. And so if I was just interested in capturing a yield, right? Like there's, there's $300 trillion of fiat denominated debt out there chasing 1%, 2%, 3% nominal yields, right? There's $30 trillion of government debt. That's all, that's all basically at max getting 2% return on an annual basis. Well, right now, and it's, it's very small, right? We're talking about $20 billion. But right now I can sell the forward Bitcoin futures contract in March.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  I can buy some Bitcoin today with a promise to pay and I can get a 9%, 10% yield, right? On an annual basis. And while that may not seem like a lot, this has pretty big implications as this market again grows from say 20 billion to a lot, lot larger, right? The whole point is that there is no central, central planning committee. There is no chairman to decide these rates and it's entirely free market dependent, right? In April, you know, right before we had these massive liquidations, you could do the same kind of trade where you sell the forward futures and you just buy Bitcoin and you're completely market neutral, meaning you're not dependent on the price going up or down. You're just, you're just flat. You could capture a 45% annual return.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  So the whole point is that whether it's perpetual swaps or quarterly futures, a lot of people get confused with derivatives, but the thing you have to know is there's a really big problem in the world. It's that the cost of capital is manipulated and planned. And when these, with these basically completely native, you know, crypto derivative markets, Bitcoin derivative markets, that's changing. And so while it may seem like it's a hindrance to Bitcoin's adoption and the volatility isn't good, what we have are free and open markets. And I think that can't be stressed enough.

• 16:59Anthony Pompliano?

  I tend to think that it is very, very manipulated, which you're doing a great job of highlighting here, but I just don't think people quite understand how severe it is.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  Joe, John, what questions you guys got? Us. Dylan, how do you think about all the futures ETFs going on? Like, how would you think about investing in one or not investing in one?

• 17:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would. I would think that I wouldn't buy futures ETFs just because there's there's a rolling kind of component to it. So the futures Bitcoin futures tend to trade above the price of a spot. So to say, you know, for the example we just gave, the March futures contract is trading at, you know, a little bit $1,000 higher than than the spot price. But, you know, the CMEs or like the the Valkyrie ETF, say, is buying CME futures and they're rolling it and the the front month futures every single month. So you're basically buying Bitcoin higher than its price, selling it and doing that every single month. Then over the long term, you, even if it, you know, basically kind of correlates to the Bitcoin performance, you underperform Bitcoin itself.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  So I would say for any kind of retail investor to just figure out, you know, how to buy a Bitcoin and eventually take custody yourself, which you couldn't do with a securitized product like a futures ETF. But for someone that's allocating capital on institutional basis, who can't go buy Bitcoin on on Square or Strike, right? It's a lot. It's a just it's a, you know, the only option they have really. So, I mean, it's good for overall adoption for big players, but I think the spot ETF will be a lot more optimal in that sense.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  And then what have you seen with on-chain with people moving coins on or off, like in between hot and cold storage?

• 18:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, we've seen kind of this trend since March of 2020 of of big outflows from exchanges. There was that was kind of the macro comp for this exchange balance trend. Through the 2017 bull market, coins were flying on to exchanges. And since then, we've kind of seen the opposite. The last couple of months have stalled, but really I think you're seeing just kind of this natural organic adoption of people realizing that Bitcoin is this digital bearer asset. And there is this kind of sovereignty that you can achieve with any other asset. And aside from the financial side of things, which, you know, I tend to focus on a lot, it is really empowering that people can hold all of their wealth to move anywhere in the world and, you know, even memorize 12 words in their

• 19:17Speaker 02

  And just take it with them. So that's definitely something encouraging to see. And that also kind of has this supply squeeze impact on the price if occurring, you know, with a lot of people at once.

• 19:29Anthony Pompliano?

  Joe, you got any questions? Yeah, Dylan, do you have any like, I won't call them like wild predictions, but any idea of something that might be like a big catalyst for the upcoming year? I assume some, some easy ones would be like if an ETF is approved, right? If we get some more clear idea around regulation, if the US adopts this in some way or from another country adopts it like El Salvador. But is there anything that I'm not thinking about that you think could have a big impact on price?

• 19:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, I think you nailed it a little bit there. Just with a lot of the stuff in this, in the spaces is narrative driven. And you kind of see FOMO in sight with, say, what happened after March of 2020, we chopped around at 9,000 all summer. An accumulation was occurring under the surface. And then Michael Saylor comes out and says, run a Bitcoin standard. Everyone should do this, you know, you're sitting on melting ice cubes. And that, and then like a parabolic run ensued. And so I think, you know, everyone's kind of bored at 45,000, which would seem crazy just a year ago. But I think that, you know, the next kind of things on the checklist are, you know, additional corporate adoption, the accounting standards, that the GAAP accounting standards could definitely improve. So Bitcoin's not treated as an intangible asset.

• 20:38Speaker 02

  That's one thing. The next thing is I think you saw Bukele tweet out his predictions for 2022 and saying additional nation state adoption. And I think there's going to be some exciting news at the Bitcoin conference that we'll see he'll be there attending. And so I would, I would expect to see some additional nations, some additional corporations and a lot of like pension funds and insurance funds under the surface, still just kind of accumulating small positions, right? Because they're, they're, you know, in the game to, to basically protect and, and hand out fiat denominated liabilities over decade, you know, two decade, three decade long time horizons. So Bitcoin, in that sense, in a world where real yields are negative across the board, Bitcoin becomes very, very attractive.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  So I think those are just a few catalysts. And I think once we see kind of a big one, the whole FOMO stage that we saw in late 2020, we'll, we'll pick back up again. And then that's when things get exciting.

• 21:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Do you think people, leaders of other countries are calling up Bukele and just saying, Like, how did you do this? Give me the playbook.

• 21:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think there's, there's definitely a lot of eyeballs on, on what he's doing in his strategy, especially for countries that don't have their own currency. Right? So, Bucelli was on the dollar standard. And so, you know, he got like, he had, you know, all the, like, the hardship of, of having basically foreign reserves and, and are operating on a dollar standard, but he couldn't get to print it. Right? So when the dollar, uh, when the dollar value really like skyrocketed and say, you know, early, early 2020, um, and everyone was hit across the board, uh, there was no way to stimulate. And so he said, okay, well, I'm not going to make my own crappy currency, um, because no one will value it outside of the people that I impose to use it. Uh, I'm just going to plug into this open monetary standard, uh, and, and, you know,

• 22:23Speaker 02

  potentially see the gains through, say, you know, harnessing untapped energy sources and, and basically, you know, having people all over the world that are now interested in, in my little country that weren't before. Um, and so I think there's definitely some sort of game theory in play. Um, and though, although we haven't see it play out, I think there's definitely some interesting discussions happening on the surface because, uh, you know, we aren't the only ones paying attention here.

• 22:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Dylan, when you think about, uh, kind of the conversation, the sentiment on Twitter, it seems like a lot of people, I don't want to say maybe they are getting lulled to sleep, but there's people who are gonna say, I don't know, I don't know what's happening to Bitcoin. It didn't hit 100K by the end of the year. What's going on? What's going on? Is that more concerning to you? Or is that exactly what you would expect before it makes some big move and kind of breaks out with some volatility in either direction?

• 23:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think, um, you kind of nailed it there. It's definitely people are getting a little bored. A lot of people expected a lot higher prices. You have people now calling for a lot lower prices. Um, it's interesting just kind of how sentiment can shift. Um, where just, you know, say 12 months ago, we were euphoric as Bitcoin broke $30,000. Um, and so it's, it's important to kind of just, you know, keep things, uh, you know, just have a little bit of a, a long time horizon and, and understand what's at play. Um, nothing has changed in terms of the long-term Bitcoin thesis. And, and if anything, it's, it's never looked any better. And so, uh, we saw a lot of, you know, pretty big things happen in 2021, uh, the Taproot soft fork and, and all these other things that have been, that have been basically in the works for a long, long time. And so, sitting at 45 or

• 23:52Speaker 02

  47,000 at the beginning of 2022, um, I'm a pretty ecstatic buyer. And, you know, even though the, the charts may not be too exciting nowadays, uh, you know, nothing is Really changed in the long term game.

• 24:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Makes sense. My last question for you is, yesterday was Bitcoin's birthday, 13 years. Any takeaways from just like how far we've come in 13 years?

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's pretty astounding. Just thinking about the foresight of whoever, whatever Satoshi Nakamoto is. Don't know if he's still around, but it's definitely one of the most, you know, altruistic things that's really ever been done in human history. I think Satoshi Nakamoto is kind of this legendary figure that gifted something to humanity and took back nothing in return. You know, a million or so Bitcoin estimated, having never moved, walked away from the software project with no claim to fame, just disappeared.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  You know, giving us all, you know, peaceful alternative to fiat currency and kind of the money manipulation that's occurred at scale for hundreds and hundreds of years. And so in that sense, it's kind of a beautiful thing. And I think, you know, everybody should should learn about the Bitcoin protocol and kind of figure out this thing and how it can empower you. January 3rd is known as proof of keys day, which is basically to take Bitcoin off exchange, hold it yourself, you know, establish your sovereignty to the maximum degree. And so I encourage everyone to learn a little bit more about that. It's definitely cool to, you know, get another year in the books.

• 25:28Anthony Pompliano?

  I completely agree. By the way, you know what else happened?

• 25:31Speaker 02

  What?

• 25:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Sliding in right before the end of the year. 100K followers for Dylan.

• 25:37Speaker 02

  100K.

• 25:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Let's get it.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  Figures.

• 25:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Let's get it.

• 25:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you have a goal for this year? Can we get to 100K? A million is probably difficult. Can you get to 600K, you think?

• 25:52Speaker 02

  I mean, hell, I don't know, maybe. We'll see. 100K happened a lot faster than I think. I mean, I don't really have an objective goal for Twitter followers. I just kind of, you know, post my thoughts and then it happens. So it's cool to see, definitely. And it's cool to interact with all these people around the world. I had my first person come up to me and approached me in the gym the other day, and that was an interesting.

• 26:13Anthony Pompliano?

  What'd they say?

• 26:14Speaker 02

  Dude, dude, I see you on Palm Show. That's so cool. I was like.

• 26:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Did you ask her if they liked the videos? Did you ask her if they liked the videos? Like, what's up with that?

• 26:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was like, I watched them all. I was like, damn, that's, that's pretty cool.

• 26:26Anthony Pompliano?

  You're like, move over, I gotta bench. Five hundred now.

• 26:31Speaker 03

  You tell them I write newsletter, deep dive.

• 26:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Did you get them to sign up for the newsletter?

• 26:36Speaker 02

  Show that too. Yeah, I told them to sign up for the newsletter as well. No. Check out if you like this kind of stuff. We post a lot of the same, you know, stuff on derivatives and on chain and and macro data for the deep dive. It's in my bio. So so give it a check out. We just put out our our annual report for 2021.

• 26:56Speaker 03

  Dylan, are you doing anything differently with your personal position on Bitcoin and thoughts on Bitcoin? Like how to allocate capital to it in 2022 versus last year?

• 27:06Speaker 02

  You know, there's there's some things I do kind of on the margin with, you know, I I hold a super majority of of my, I guess, liquid net worth and cold storage. You know, depending on some of the derivative data or some of the other stuff, I'll do. I'll do things that are a little more complex, like long or short volatility and other stuff and options maybe, which, you know, I don't really encourage many people to do. I just, you know, just just stack and and there's no way you can lose. But in terms of now, no, I I expect a little bit more consolidation for the coming kind of weeks. That was my my base case in in December ish. So, you know, I think we'll see a little bit more chop before things heat up here, but nothing's really changed in terms of my my personal allocation.

• 27:50Anthony Pompliano?

  I don't know if we got anything else for you, man. I'm I'm impressed. You you continue to get better and better. And your analysis is pretty damn good. It's like I get like a front seat to a little education every single week. So I appreciate you. Any plans this week for kick it off the new year?

• 28:06Speaker 02

  No, not much. Actually headed to Nashville with the with the BM team. We're gonna get together and and, you know, make some quarterly plans. So that's exciting. I'm I'm excited to go get out of the cold.

• 28:20Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, man. Sounds good. I'll see you when you move to Miami.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  See you guys. Thanks.