Taron Egerton, Vol. III

Taron Egerton's career is changing with both the times but also his own aspirations as an actor. He comes back to the pod to chat about honoring his acting heroes in SMOKE, going indie with SHE RIDES SHOTGUN, and why playing Wolverine might not be for him. UPCOMING EVENTS! Ben Stiller & Seth Rogen LIVE in Los Angeles on August 15th! ⁠Get your tickets here ⁠ Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Speaker 02

  I love acting and I love making films and I love the TV work I've been a part of, but I am very comfortable with the level it is at now where I get asked for a selfie maybe, you know, a couple of times a day. The other thing that people experience, I just don't know that I've been built for it. Yeah. I don't, I don't know.

• 1:25Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 1:32Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh and welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. We have a very familiar face on the podcast returning today. It is Taran Edgerton, talking She Rides Shotgun and Smoke and Kingsman and Wolverine and all sorts of other things. Always great to have Taran back on the pod. This is a great chat. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out what I do over here. Click reminder, check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happyconfused for all the info on upcoming events, merch, all sorts of bonus materials. Support us over there so we can make more stuff over here. Speaking of events, we have a big one coming up. August 15th, Los Angeles. If you happen to be there, get your tickets now because these

• 2:17Josh Horowitz?

  tickets will go Seth Rogen and Ben Stiller together. It would be one thing if it was one of them, that would be cool. Seth Rogen, amazing. Ben Stiller, amazing. They're coming together for a very unique, one of a kind conversation with me for Happy, Sad, Confused. They, of course, are at the helm of these two juggernauts, two of my favorite shows on TV, Severance and The Studio. Also, they're, I mean, they're parallel careers as actors, comic performers, directors, two of just the smartest guys in the business. So it's gonna be a really cool night. Get your tickets now, August 15th. It's gonna be at the Fine Arts Theater, where I hosted a couple of things in the past. I hope to see you guys

• 2:58Josh Horowitz?

  there. Okay, so, quick preamble on Taron. He is a Happy, Sad, Confused regular, I would say. This is probably, I think it's the third time on the podcast. He's in a really cool, interesting space in his career right now. You know, he's done the blockbuster stuff, of course, but now, he's really found this cool niche, and he'll talk about this in the conversation, of these character parts. You know, this is his second Apple show in a row with Dennis Lehane, great writer, at the helm. This one's called Smoke. He's talking about that in this conversation. It's a really compelling drama about, he's an arson investigator, Johnny Smollett is a co-star in this, and I'm not gonna reveal

• 3:42Josh Horowitz?

  too much here, but I will say, in this conversation, we do get into some spoiler territory. So, keep your eyes and ears peeled if you don't want Smoke spoiled for you. Tread cautiously. That's my warning on that. He also talks a bit about She Rides Shotgun, which is this fantastic new film, I believe it's opening, I wanna say, August 1st. Yeah, August 1st. And this is, this is a small indie, but a really cool, compelling drama thriller. He plays an ex-con trying to protect his daughter. He's on the run, a real passion project for Taron. He's a producer on the film. So, really cool to catch up with him. Like I said, coming off of, like, the Kingsman film.

• 4:22Josh Horowitz?

  And and obviously Rocketman and to now, as he says, really chasing and embracing these character pieces. Um, he's trying to balance out that career. And I think the blockbusters will always be there for him. Yes, we do talk about Wolverine. It always comes up. He has some really interesting things to say about that, about whether he'd make a good Wolverine, whether he'd even want to play Wolverine, some surprising stuff to hear, maybe. And a little bit about the future of Kingsman to boot. So a lot to enjoy in this conversation. I think you guys will dig it. So without any further ado, please enjoy me and Taron Egerton. All right. I'm joined not only by Taron Egerton, it's Taron Egerton's iPad, as you can see in the lower left hand corner of the screen. Uh, it's good to see you, buddy.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  You too, mate. Yeah, I'm good, man. You know, like everybody else, trying my best.

• 5:14Josh Horowitz?

  Just surviving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So are you, so are you between jobs right now? You've got a couple of things to promote, but are you gearing up for something, coming off of something? Give me a sense of where you're at.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  Uh, I don't know. I did finish something a couple of months ago. So I suppose we'll say I'm coming off something because that sounds like I'm very, very busy.

• 5:36Josh Horowitz?

  Always into.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  Um, I made a movie at the start of the year when I was in Australia for a few months and I have something that is at the end of the year, but I think I'm looking at a few months of, of chilling out. I think, I think I'll be filming again, but November, I think. So I'm told. I'm just an actor, man. I just do what I'm told, when I'm, when I'm told.

• 6:01Josh Horowitz?

  When you're called upon. How are you nowadays? You know, having done this for more than a minute with managing downtime, managing the months of waiting of like, we're getting the financing together. When like, are you?

• 6:13Speaker 02

  Terrible.

• 6:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  It's, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's funny you ask that. It's the, it's one of the big things in my life that I'm really cognizant of trying to get better at because, um, it's, I find it challenging. I really love being busy and I love working and I love, I love filming. It's great to have. Um. A big focus, but I do find the downtime more challenging. It's um. Well, it's becoming clearer to me as I've, you know, entered my mid thirties uh that um. You really have to impose. A structure and kind of build a structure when you don't have one imposed upon you by filming because. You know, it's it it can be challenging otherwise. I mean, you know, no one wants to hear um.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  An actor complain about their life and I don't intend to, but it's um. I'd say it's one of the challenges of what I do for a living, that the kind of um. The the the feast and famine, all or nothing nature of it, you know.

• 7:11Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's also like the nature of when you're in production is you are so. In it and you are given your schedule, you're given your times, you're kind of like you you're you're taken care of to a degree. And you're also kind of have a very singular purpose. And I know some actors like. Almost to the detriment of their personal life can like, you know, I'm off the grid for the next four months. Like I'll I'll talk to you in four months when I'm done with the job. So it's it is feast or famine. It's either like. Oh, my God, I'm suddenly like I have no idea what to do with myself, or it's like I'm. So foot laser focused, there's nothing else and that's an odd.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. It is, it is odd, but but also a great joy, you know, I mean, I it means my my life is kind of. My life is made up of adventures and the and they're. They're wonderful and they're glorious and they're in amazing places and different cities and different parts of the world. And as far as possible, I'm playing somebody who's. Lived a completely different life from myself and and I love all that. Well, that's great, but you know, it can be hard to then. To just come back down to earth a little bit and it's and I and I, you know. I sort of, I, yeah, I don't know. Like the thing I did at the start of the year was quite. Um. It was really all consuming. It's it's one of the more.

• 8:28Speaker 02

  Extreme things I've done. It's it's two me and one other actor in the wilderness. For months on end and um.

• 8:38Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, which one is this? This is in Apex, is it? Is this Apex?

• 8:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is Apex. Um. I haven't I I, you know, I don't know. I haven't I've not seen a cut or anything of it, but um. Yeah, it's pretty out there for sure.

• 8:53Josh Horowitz?

  So wait, who, who, who, who, wait, who are you sharing? Cause I thought there were a few actors attached. Isn't Charlize in there? Is it you and Charlize? Or who are you hanging in the wilderness with?

• 9:01Speaker 02

  It's me. It's from for about, I'd say 90% of the movie. It's just me and Charlize. Yeah.

• 9:08Josh Horowitz?

  This is a joy. They pay you for that. That's amazing. She's one of my favorite.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:12Josh Horowitz?

  She's one of my favorite human beings. I mean, you can now attest to this.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's wonderful. Yeah, she's an amazing, amazing person here.

• 9:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. And so, so funny and filthy in the best possible way. I, I'm obsessed with her.

• 9:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:24Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that, okay. So we have time to talk about that. Okay, we're going to get into, I want to get into Smoke and She Rides Shotgun. We have two purposes, two things to talk about today. First, before we get to those two, I'm just curious like where you're at right now. Because the last time we spoke, it was another Dennis Lehane, Apple series. And you were, I feel like you, you're in this interesting transitional point as an actor, both dictated by kind of your interests, but also where the industry's at. Like the industry is so different than when you and I started talking, like when you're doing the Kingsman films and Eddie the Eagle, et cetera. Like.

• 9:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:56Josh Horowitz?

  Studio filmmaking is very specific and it's, it's blockbuster or bust. Streaming has taken over. These prestige shows are very rewarding for actors. Just give me a sense of how different the environment is for you now versus when we were talking 10, 15 years ago.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  Um, well, I guess I did, I kind of, I experienced the very tail end of, of, um, of ubiquitous, as you say, you know, larger budget or middle to large budget, budget studio filmmaking or some version of it. Cause the way Matthew made films wasn't really, is kind of a little structured a little differently.

• 10:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 10:41Speaker 02

  But yes, you're right. I, I have definitely felt that I have had to adapt and, um, kind of shift with the changing industry. But it's not, it's really not something I've been cognizant of in the decisions I've, I've made.

• 11:02Speaker 02

  And it was actually only when somebody said to me recently in a kind of lamenting fashion, I hadn't been in a theatrically released movie since Rocketman. That it really, and I, it was, it kind of stopped me in my tracks and made me for a second, I suppose, wonder if I. Only for a brief second, but it shocked me. It shocked me for a moment. And, and I thought, oh, wow, my, am I. Am I not fulfilling some expectation of, of, of myself or fulfilling something I should have done. But the fact of the matter is.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Very, very little is made and works in that fashion anymore. And the choices that I've, I've made. Certainly, I have to say, if I'm completely honest, the choices that I'm making over the past few years and the parts I'm playing. Are much, much, much more in line with my taste and my aspirations as a. As an artist, to use a lofty term, but it is, you know, then, then the movies I was. Then the characters in the movies I was doing in the first five years of my career. I loved Kingsman and I loved, you know, I love working with Matthew and I hope to do more with him one day, but um. I really have loved the opportunities afforded to me through um Apple and Dennis Lane.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Both Blackbird and, and now Smoke. They are really, really interesting and really challenging. Parts, particularly this latest one. It's definitely the hardest role I've played. Um, and um. And yeah, the thing with Charlize at the start of the year is my attempt. And indeed Smoke and also my film that comes out this summer, She Rides Shotgun, they're all, they're all kind of in line with.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  The I I suppose I'm trying to tread a line between pursuing character roles because those are the things that stimulate me.

• 13:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  But I do also like the feeling of being um. I suppose a a leading actor. That's a nice feeling, too. It's nice to feel like you're at the the the the spearhead of the storytelling. Um, and also, you know, not to be crude or crass, I also have aspirations in terms of the lifestyle I want and um and the lifestyle I want to help to provide for people who I care about.

• 13:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:33Speaker 02

  And those are all real world things. So juggling all of those things is, I guess, what's led me to where I am now, which is um a place I'm reasonably comfortable with, I think, I think.

• 13:46Josh Horowitz?

  Well, and and and the proof's in the pudding. The the performances are great. I mean, I I don't wanna, we're not gonna reveal. I I think by the time this runs on the smoke front, it's gonna be six or seven episodes in. I've seen the entire thing. So I don't know.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Oh, you have?

• 13:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's fantastic. And I won't ru- ruin the ending for folks, but I'll just say this, the final moments of you on screen, just just stay to the end because it is just one of the great endings in a series I've seen in a long time.

• 14:12Speaker 02

  Thanks, man. It's pretty batshit, but I'm very pleased with how it turned out. Yeah.

• 14:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So, okay. So so for those that don't know, you you alluded to this. This is you reteaming with the great Dennis Lehane. Obviously, a very rewarding experience on Blackbird, another dark, complicated character. But this character, an arson investigator who will start with like one non spoiler part, then we'll get into spoiler stuff.

• 14:34Speaker 02

  Sure. Yeah, yeah, sure.

• 14:36Josh Horowitz?

  But we can say there's a lot of duality to this character. He is not, he is an unreliable narrator, to say the least.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  Um, yeah.

• 14:44Josh Horowitz?

  Th- this must be so, is was this immediately obvious of how juicy an opportunity, how interesting a challenge this could be for you as an actor?

• 14:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, hundred percent. I my heroes are um.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  Or actors like Gary Oldman and Anthony Hopkins and and and and I've always felt like I always have felt like this role because it's a role that's been in the in development for a few years now. We started talking about it when we finished Blackbird, but it really it always felt to me like something that would be worthy of an actor like that. It's complicated and dark and very ugly and and I think um you know, a cha- a challenge, I think. And not for a second, please don't mistake me, I'm not comparing myself to Gary Oldman, but I am saying that

• 15:34Speaker 02

  if there's someone I could be, it would probably be him, you know, not, you know, I'm aware that's ridiculous, but um and I and this role of uh Dave in Smoke, from the from the get go, it just felt like something that was too good an opportunity to pass up. Um I knew a little bit about the story when Dennis approached me about it. And I think I feel that given the time, since the time of recording, the fourth episode is now, so the first I feel like we can delve.

• 16:06Josh Horowitz?

  We can go in. So yeah, by the end of what? It's the end of the second episode is the reveal, right?

• 16:11Speaker 02

  The end of the, so he's an arson investigator, a fairly, I would say, a hapless, maybe even a little oafish arson investigator, who is having very little luck i- in pursuing two serial prolific arsonists. You find out at the um at the end of the second episode that he is the one of the one of them. And so he has this interesting thing where he is not, he doesn't have split personality, but there's certainly a bifurcation of who he is and quite how concrete that is in his mind is one of the many secrets of Dave, you know, because

• 16:49Speaker 02

  I do think he really believes he is a hero. And I think the fact he's an arsonist is a really inconvenient truth for him. Um I think, you know, just like you know, I whenever I think as people, whenever we do things that are bad for us, it can feel a bit like we're on autopilot and then we go, well, why the fuck did I do that? You know, and I think I think that's who Dave is when he's setting fires, but um. Anyway, I'm just waffling now, enjoying the sound of my own voice. What did you ask me?

• 17:20Josh Horowitz?

  No, no, here's what I want to say. I find it very entertaining to watch throughout. I find him to be a fascinating character, a comic character in some ways, like a deeply

• 17:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure.

• 17:32Josh Horowitz?

  insecure, sad, like, I love, I love like the aspect of him as like this like failed writer, this like kind of like struggling artist, which I find really amusing. I mean, he is, um, yeah, I mean, do you find him, I mean, he's dangerous.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  I think what's, he is dangerous. And I think one of the things that I found most difficult about him to marry is that oafish

• 17:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  comedic side of him, the clownish side of him. And then the fact that within the, with, you know, his function in the show is to be an antagonistic force and someone who can also be reasonably gary, I think. And I found those things quite difficult to marry in my mind. But, um, just like Dave, I think you just commit from moment to moment. And you mentioned his aspirations as a writer. That's one of my favorite little features of who he is as a person because the really subtle thing, but it says something, something really, um, uh, kind of spiritually eloquent

• 18:35Speaker 02

  about, about people where his, his, his creative pursuit, it nearly saves him. You notice early on, he's, it nearly is kind of the thing that takes him away from this very dark, destructive side of his nature until, um, until he's rejected and then it all comes falling down around him. But, um, yes, fascinating role written by the, the great Dennis Lane, who's become, you know, um, a, a big creative collaborator in my life and I really hope we do more together. And, um, yeah, I had a wild ride playing him. I don't mind saying it's, it was hard. The first couple of episodes where you don't really know what's going on with him.

• 19:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  And I, I felt like I was flying blind. I didn't really know what, what on earth I was doing, but I think, um, I think.

• 19:25Josh Horowitz?

  My vintage points and many others, it works very well. You kill it as always.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 19:29Josh Horowitz?

  Um, I feel like the ulterior motive in your career has been like these associations with great musical artists because you know, obviously you have Elton through Rocketman. You have no less than Thom Yorke. Um, doing the song for this. Have you, do you have any relationship with Tom York? Had like, what's the Taron Egerton connection there? That's, that's rare.

• 19:48Speaker 02

  I, I really don't think there is one. I, um, like, like any, um, navel gazing male, I love Radiohead. Um, but, uh, I think what happened was, um, my understanding is he saw Blackbird and enjoyed it very much. And so I think it was a fairly straightforward thing when, when, um, Dennis was embarking on his second outing, his showrunner and, and that's how it happened. But no, aside from being a, a lover of, of Tom's work, there's no personal connection.

• 20:21Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 20:28Speaker 00

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• 20:59Speaker 05

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• 21:31Josh Horowitz?

  All right, let's talk a little She Rides Shotgun. I got a chance to see this one, too. This is another great piece of work. I saw this filmmaker's last film, Khan with Horses, and I clocked him right there, so I'm excited to see you collaborating with him in this. And it's striking on a number of levels. I mean, like, you know, we were talking about kind of the kind of material you've done. This is probably the smallest production, I would imagine. This is an indie film. This is a 25-day shoot. This is, as much as the bells and whistles are, that's kind of like a thriller, maybe even a western, it's really a character piece. It's you and your daughter in this.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:08Josh Horowitz?

  Did you find this environment refreshing, different, considering there were a little bit less bells and whistles?

• 22:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, again, it was something that arrived in my email inbox, and I'd seen Khan with Horses, and like, you know, I think that was a movie that obviously didn't get a wide release, and I don't think was seen by many people outside of the industry, but I think the industry really paid attention to it. And in particular actors, I think, really loved that movie. It's something that I was very struck by, as having a very authored feel, features two terrific central performances from Cosmo Jarvis and also Barry Keoghan.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  They're both brilliant in it. And I suppose whenever, you know, an interesting independent filmmaker expresses an interest in talking to me, I'm always quite flattered by that because, you know, people have their different roots into the industry, and mine was not through independent filmmaking. It didn't build slowly, you know. I dropped into Kingsman, so.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  I don't have those credentials, you know, they're not, they're not my kind of um stomping ground, or it's not the way I came up, I suppose. And so

• 23:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, this kind of film is usually like the first three films in someone's career, and you're kind of, you're kind of doing it in reverse engineering now.

• 23:46Speaker 02

  Maybe, yeah, yeah, maybe. Um, and I was in Virus, Nick, and I um, I read the script and it just had such heart and soul and it just um I really connected with it really quickly. I loved the role. I loved the relationship with with Polly, who is the the main character of the film. And um I met with Nick and we sat uh at a Soho House in London, one of the fifteen hundred Soho Houses in London and we um we had, we had a really, we had a we had just sat and had lunch together and

• 24:29Speaker 02

  got along and he asked me to play the role and then we um we went and we did it in twenty five days in New Mexico and it's um

• 24:38Speaker 02

  I produced the movie as well and um and really but more than anything else I've done from the absolute beginning to the absolute end, it's been a real labor of love. It's hard for making a movie like that. It's hard physically, it's hard emotionally, mentally, you have to never kind of um waver or doubt. It just takes everything to get the thing made because it's hard. Um, and um, I love it. I absolutely love it. I love Anna in it. I love the kind of brutality of it mixed with the tenderness of their relationship. And I watch it and I, I, you know, I've seen it a couple of times and I don't absolutely hate the experience of watching it, which is

• 25:23Speaker 02

  becoming increasingly unusual for me and um I uh Yeah, it's a piece I'm really, really proud of, really proud of, actually.

• 25:32Josh Horowitz?

  I, I, I almost never find anything of that much interest in production notes, but I found this fascinating. I read that you asked some notable actors to recommend films that were in the same vein as this film. And I love the people you called upon. I love some of the films they mentioned. I want to talk about this because I, you know, I'm a.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. Yeah, I did.

• 25:53Josh Horowitz?

  So you, you hit up you, by the way, Gary Oldman is like a new spirit animal of this podcast. He's, I've done a few things with him in recent years and I.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:01Josh Horowitz?

  I'm obsessed with him. I was obsessed with him growing up, but I'm now obsessed with the man too. Um, so he, he was one you hit up. Has, has Gary become someone you've kind of, I don't know, forged a bit of a bond with?

• 26:13Speaker 02

  Not at all. I wish. No, he and I met at a thing and he had seen Blackbird and liked it very much. And I had seen pretty much everything he's ever been in and liked it very much.

• 26:30Josh Horowitz?

  Big fan of everything you've done, everything.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, all of this, this all works for me. And, and, um, yeah, I, I'm, my mind is frantically working now to try and figure out what these actors told me to watch.

• 26:43Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I, I can remind you if you want. He, I think he said.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Okay, great.

• 26:46Josh Horowitz?

  He mentioned Straight Time.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  Yep, Straight Time. So Gary Oldman told me to watch Straight Time.

• 26:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:52Speaker 02

  And the conversation, the conversation is one of my favorite films anyway, and I, but I hadn't seen Straight Time and it was a really interesting comp for this. And, um, and it was lovely, actually. Um, but just over, just over text, you know, I, um, mentioned that I was just preparing for something that I loved and a bit about the genre and just asked him for something that he, you know, I, I, I just asked, I asked him and two other actors who I admire. But just performances that inspired them or that they thought might be, um, galvanizing or invigorating or whatever. So he, he said, Gary Oldman said Straight Time. And, and, um, and then I asked, uh, uh.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  I asked Stevie G and Stephen Graham, Stephen Graham is actually, he is actually a friend. Stephen and I are, um, he's somebody that I, you know, see when we're in the same place and, you know, friendly with Hannah, his wife and, you know, so that was less of a kind of a bolt from the blue. Um, Stephen said Gary in something.

• 27:59Josh Horowitz?

  It was State of Grace, State of Grace, relatively early role for him, but Irish monster, as I recall.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Yes, that's right. Yes. So Stephen Graham said State of Grace. Um, and then I also, I also, God, this is, I don't know, this, this is not a name drop because you teed me up. So, um, but then also I did, I asked Joaquin Phoenix who, uh, uh, and he, I mean, he sent like

• 28:26Speaker 02

  a really long list, like a really, really, really long list, which was lovely of him. Um, but the one that I remember was actually, um, it was the one that I remember that he was really emphatic about was, um, May, December, and he had been very moved by, uh, Charles Mountain's performance in that. And I loved that film and I thought Charles was amazing in it.

• 28:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Um, but I can't remember what else he said. Did I say something different on the production?

• 28:59Josh Horowitz?

  You, you, you said he sent a long list, so you didn't cite any. So now, now we're in December, that's fascinating.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I think I was just felt like I was embarking on something that felt very, really stripped back, you know, very like not a lot of money involved really in the grand scheme of things. And it just felt like a very pure experience doing a very intense story with a very young actor. Um, who is, I, I think one of, one of the most extraordinary.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  I think she's up there. I really do. I just think she holds her own against any of the great child performances that I've seen anyway. Um, and um, yeah, yeah.

• 29:43Josh Horowitz?

  I I like what you you said about in reference to this and and in smoke in terms of like, you know, smoke, you're referencing things like, you know, people like Oldman and Hopkins and and not to like, compare yourself, but to say like, these are, it feels like a role that could have potentially back in the day been worthy of them and you want to aspire to their heights. And I think there's, there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, I think a lot of people were really inspired in a way or kind of loved when you probably saw this when Timothy Chao made one, I think it was a SAG Award a year ago. And he said on stage, he's like, I want to be one of the greats. Like, I want to, I'm going for it. And it's like, there's nothing wrong with that. You're not saying you are the greatest, but like, why are you doing this if you're not trying to be, you know,

• 30:23Josh Horowitz?

  equal or on the same playing field as the folks you grew up worshipping? I don't have a question, but I just, I think there's nothing to apologize for trying to do.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  No, I think I'm, you know, it's probably very British of me, but I, I, I, uh, I don't for a second want to be misconstrued. But yeah, absolutely. I, you know, this is the only thing I can do. It's the only thing I do, you know, so I, I, I want to look to the stars to be like the people that, um, that most blew me away when I was deciding this is what I want to do. And one of the amazing things about being a successful actor, um, is sometimes you get to ask your heroes.

• 31:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  And it's fucking amazing. It's an amazing privilege. And it's, you know, there's a lot about it that sucks, you know, they're, and I know, you know, I, I actually make no bones about saying that. Um, but like, there's a lot about it that's like, great. And that's one of the things that's. Really great.

• 31:28Josh Horowitz?

  It's a real privilege. No, totally. I mean, one of the things that sucks not to do like the woe is me thing, but I do find it interesting. Like, I know you left social media a couple of years back.

• 31:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:36Josh Horowitz?

  You're dipping your toe back in now, it seems.

• 31:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's gonna last, it's gonna last until the end of the month. I basically just wanted to share the trailer of She Rides Shotgun.

• 31:45Josh Horowitz?

  I get it, I get it. But like, it does strike me, look, we catch up on every project, but like in between, you kind of disappear. I don't see photos of you at parties or anything nowadays. And I don't know if that was different 10 years ago, or if this is a lifestyle change or philosophical change, but like, you've, it seems from the outside looking in, you've made a choice to kind of like, create a lifestyle and an environment that's healthy for your brain, your body, whatever. Is that, is that fair to say? I don't know.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, um,

• 32:19Speaker 02

  um, oh god, it's a complicated question to answer. You're right, I don't, I don't go to things. I don't, um, you know, I'm not, um, somebody who lives in the, in the public eye other than when I absolutely have to. And I think in some ways that's, you know, I could be grandiose about that and say that it's a, a kind of a withdrawing or a kind of something that I feel I don't need or, but the truth of the matter is, it's probably based on, on a fear, on some fear in me, really, you know, I, I, um, I don't, it's not a world I feel comfortable in. It's not a place, I don't, I find,

• 33:01Speaker 02

  if I'm on set and I'm doing my thing, I feel very, very, very at home. If I'm stepping out of a car to, to something where there's photographers and other people who do the same job as me, but I don't know them, I, I feel uncomfortable in my skin. I, it's just not my, you know, um, my world, really. Um, I actually wish I was better at it. But I, um, Yeah, I don't know. I think I I think um I don't I it's funny. It's always funny to hear somebody else's perspective on your life. I think that's another thing that's really strange about the the job and um and and the life of somebody who is an an actor, but also maybe a known person or, you know, you have to reconcile,

• 33:46Speaker 02

  you have to consistently keep reconciling who you think you are with what other people's perspective of you is. And um and it's a head fuck, you know, it's like it's a weird thing.

• 33:57Josh Horowitz?

  Well, yeah, every single day when someone approaches you at a Starbucks on the street, they are bringing some kind of preconceived image connection with you.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:07Josh Horowitz?

  It's a one sided relationship that you're catching up on.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah. And it's it's nice, you know, it's like people are nice. It's it's nice, you know, it's I I just I forget every day.

• 34:18Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:18Speaker 02

  Every day I forget. And whenever it happens, I it's like I get a I get a job like sometimes when people people will like I often walk down the street with my headphones in and people will tap me on the shoulder and I jump out of my skin every time. Every time I jump out of my skin, I get a shot of adrenaline and anxiety and neuroseeds through me because I just am not expecting it. I I don't, you know, it's it's almost I almost feel a bit like I'm um.

• 34:52Speaker 02

  I I get I suppose I I don't know. I just I can never quite figure out why.

• 34:58Josh Horowitz?

  It's probably better to to to feel that than to get too used to it. You don't want to be used to being like constantly celebrated and loved. But that's like that's a mindfuck of itself, like.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I mean, that's that's also I I I that isn't, you know, I'd be grossly misrepresenting what my life is like if I was.

• 35:15Josh Horowitz?

  Constant people throwing flowers at you.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  Celebrated love.

• 35:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:19Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, anyway, it's, you know, like anybody else, like everybody else in the world. I really, really, really believe that we all face our own version of the trials and tribulations of life. You know, and mine are truly very pedestrian in comparison to some other people's. So um important to keep all that in perspective as well.

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• 36:53Josh Horowitz?

  Let me ask you some random stuff about potential upcoming things, things you might be interested in or not. Do you feel some unfinished business about going back to the stage? Obviously, you went, you were doing something on the West End, ended a bit prematurely. I know there was some medical stuff going on. Does it feel like that's something you, you feel like, oh, that itch wasn't properly scratched?

• 37:14Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, there were a few factors at play when I left that stage show. I think I, for a number of reasons, I think I picked the wrong project. But I also, you know, my mother was very, very ill at the time.

• 37:31Josh Horowitz?

  I'm sorry.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  And I was, you know, she was, she was having treatment for, for, for cancer. And I'd dropped out of a film when she was diagnosed and came back to the UK to, to help set up her healthcare. And, and I think.

• 37:55Speaker 02

  It all just got on top of me, frankly, and um, and I was just taking on way more than I had the bandwidth for at the time. Um, thankfully, you know, six months after that, my mom got the all clear and she's good, you know, sort of the happy ending to that story, which is great. But yeah, I'd absolutely love to go back to the, to the theatre. It's where I started. It's, it's, it's the, it's the absolute beginning of my life as an actor, um, before drama school and after drama school, before doing Kingsman, I was in theatre in London. So I'd love to go back, but um, I guess it's about when the right opportunity comes along.

• 38:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Um, you know, I'm contractually bound year after year to keep bringing up Marvel. I know you love this topic. Last time I spoke to you on stage, I showed you that video of Joe Russo saying you would be the best Wolverine. And I know nothing has changed in the, in the world of Marvel and you, and you're not.

• 38:55Speaker 02

  Joe is very sweet. Joe and I, Joe, Joe and I are friends though. He, you know, he's not being impartial there. He's been very.

• 39:01Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that's okay.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Solid because he's my mate.

• 39:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Did you follow up with him after the fact? Have you talked to Joe?

• 39:06Speaker 02

  I can't remember. No, I do talk to Joe and I, I do, you know, talk to Joe from time to time, but not, I don't think about that. Um. Uh, yeah, I mean, it's, it's really lovely, um, uh, that, um.

• 39:23Josh Horowitz?

  Here's, here's my question.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  People seem to, yeah, what is the question?

• 39:27Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's a tou, it's a tou, yeah, thing to talk about because there's nothing really to talk about until there's something to talk about. I get it. But like, do you, I don't know, like.

• 39:36Speaker 02

  Hugh Jackman is Wolverine, you know?

• 39:39Josh Horowitz?

  For the record, until he says I'm not.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  Hugh Jackman is Wolverine and, and I think, um, uh, I.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  It feels like, I I don't know. I mean, the trouble is that whenever I get asked about this, I have to respond because I'm, I hope, a reasonably polite person, but I it's it sounds like I'm the one causing it. And it's like, no, I'm I'm I'm trying to live my my life. Um, I I think it's it's like, there was a moment that I won't lie. There was a moment, probably one of the first times the rumor mill wound up about it where I thought, that'd be cool. But I think, I think it it it never came to anything other than rumor. It was never, you know, because, well, I guess they, you know, they haven't included the characters

• 40:33Speaker 02

  in a fresh iteration.

• 40:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  Um, so it never came to anything. And also, you know, um, Hugh Hugh came back and I guess.

• 40:44Josh Horowitz?

  Set the clock back a little bit.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm quite right, too. He's completely synonymous with the character. And frankly, frankly, even if, you know, if they do a whatever it is, you know, they were to do it. Um,

• 41:03Speaker 02

  you know, there there's some big shoes to fill and and I and also, as you may have alluded to earlier in this conversation,

• 41:15Speaker 02

  I don't know that I want that much attention on me, frankly.

• 41:19Josh Horowitz?

  Right. That's that's a life changer. That's a.

• 41:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just don't know. That's I just don't know that that would do me any good, man. I, you know, I love acting and I love making films and I love the TV work I've been a part of, but um, I I'm very comfortable with the le- the level i- is at now where I get asked for a selfie, maybe, you know, a couple of times a day. The the other thing that people experience, I just don't know that I've been built for it.

• 41:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't know.

• 41:53Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. You mentioned once to me when in that meeting you had way back when with Feige, which I know is a long time ago, that you actually mentioned a different character to him. Are you ready to spill on what that character was that you brought up with Kevin?

• 42:08Speaker 02

  Honestly can't remember, Josh.

• 42:10Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, that's convenient, but I'll take it. That's okay. That's okay.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  I honestly can't remember.

• 42:14Josh Horowitz?

  It's okay.

• 42:15Speaker 02

  Might have been Cyclops?

• 42:18Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, maybe. You tell, I don't know. Does that ring a bell?

• 42:20Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 42:20Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, okay.

• 42:21Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know. There was a conversation around that. Years ago, back when it was a Fox thing, there was a Cyclops conversation years ago.

• 42:31Josh Horowitz?

  Speaking of Fox, the Kingsman question that always comes up, is that?

• 42:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:36Josh Horowitz?

  Look, I know you and Matthew are tight. You always will be tight. I assume there's constant conversation.

• 42:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:42Josh Horowitz?

  My concern is you're starting to get into the gray area age-wise, where it's like, you're not old enough to be the mentor quite yet, the Colin Firth. But you're not the kid anymore, needless to say. You're a man. So like, are you aligned on what Kingsman 3 would be, like you and Matthew and Colin, and what that story is?

• 43:02Speaker 02

  Um, um.

• 43:07Speaker 02

  So I think it only works if it feels right for where we are in our lives now. You know, and Matthew and I have, and I've said this before, you know, we would like to do another one. There is without doubt an appetite for it because it's still the thing I get asked about most. Um, whether it happens or not, I don't know. But I'm not troubled by my, my age. Think I'm more troubled by it being, um,

• 43:54Speaker 02

  a really worthwhile conclusion to something that started.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  Really my adult life and my life in this in this game, you know, um, so, um,

• 44:09Speaker 02

  I have I have I have strong instincts about what I think it should be. And Matthew isn't a, you know, he he's certainly not going to be a passenger on the ride. So, I mean, um, yeah, we'll we'll see. I think I think it would be a nice thing to do. I don't feel that that story ended in a place where it should be left. Um, so it would be great to do one more. Um, and he and I are, uh, you know, we've the math as we talked about it as recently as a few days ago, you know, so it's it is still a thing. It's just, I think, yeah, we'll see. We'll see, mate.

• 44:51Josh Horowitz?

  You'll get there. You'll get there. Okay. Before I let you go, a couple, a couple of the fans of of yours and happy second few sent sent me some questions. Jen simply wants to know an actor you want to work with next. Who's top of the list? Who are you? Who do you have in mind?

• 45:03Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. Um, oh, that's quite a question. Um,

• 45:11Speaker 02

  uh, I mean, so many, so many actors. Um, well, let's say, let's say Gary Oldman. That'd be fun.

• 45:20Josh Horowitz?

  That'd be amazing. Yeah.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:22Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, uh, Robin wants to know, I don't know if this is something, a project still on your radar, but, uh, Happy Head was a novel that I think you got the rights for a couple of years ago. Is that still something you're developing, trying to make happen?

• 45:32Speaker 02

  Yes. Yes. We, uh, we have a script and we're trying to figure out next moves. Yeah, it's, I mean, it's my first foray into really building something from the ground up. And it's true what they say. It's challenging in a number of different ways. But, um, yeah, it's still, yeah, it's still an ongoing conversation.

• 45:53Josh Horowitz?

  I'm curious your perspective on obviously all the acclaim justifiable for Rocketman and in in subsequent years, there have been some really interesting takes on music biopics. I mean, do you feel like a connection when you see like a Chalamet take on Bob Dylan, Jeremy Allen White is doing Springsteen? Um, I don't know. Does it feel like you have like a unique vantage point on those kind of productions?

• 46:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  I suppose, you know, it's like, uh, uh, it makes me, it makes me nostalgic. It's a wonderful feeling because for a second you get to kid yourself that you're a rock star, you know? And, um, and I really like those movies. I really, I'm really excited about the Springsteen movie. And I thought Complete Unknown was great. And the Beatles movie sounds, or movies, sounds amazing.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  But yeah, you know, it's, I guess it's, uh, yeah, I don't know if it gives me a unique vantage point, but I, I'm glad they exist.

• 46:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, well, it's also they're marrying like really cool filmmakers with all these projects, right? It's whether it's Scott Cooper or Sam Mendes, like, you know, that's the secret sauce.

• 47:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:09Josh Horowitz?

  Um, okay, we're gonna end with this, the Happy Second Fuse profoundly random questions, Taron. You ready for this?

• 47:13Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 47:15Josh Horowitz?

  Doggers, dogs or cats? Are you a dog or cat person?

• 47:18Speaker 02

  Dogs, for sure, for sure. Think, yeah, for sure. I don't know why. I'm a very intuitive person. It's just a gut thing, you know? I like cats. I just wouldn't like, you know,

• 47:34Speaker 02

  I'd leave a baby with a dog. I wouldn't leave a baby with a cat. Would you?

• 47:39Josh Horowitz?

  No, I wouldn't. I'm a dog guy. My dog's in the next room, through and through.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:43Josh Horowitz?

  Um, do you collect anything? What do you collect?

• 47:47Speaker 02

  Uh, regrets.

• 47:50Josh Horowitz?

  Sounds about right.

• 47:53Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, do you have a favorite?

• 47:54Speaker 02

  I'm being silly. No, I'm being silly. I don't collect anything, man.

• 47:57Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, okay. Do you have a favorite video game of all time? Probably answered this one on the Tetris press tour, I would imagine.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  Oh, uh, I have really enjoyed those two, uh, those two Jedi games. Is it Fallen Order? And I can't remember the name of the other one. I played both of those to completion. I don't know if they're my favorite of all time, but the only thing I've played from start to finish over the past few years.

• 48:20Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, now you just set the internet on fire of casting you as a Jedi. You know what you just did. You know.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 48:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:27Josh Horowitz?

  Um, the Dakota Johnson memorial question, she asked me this. I ask everybody this. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 48:38Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 48:43Speaker 02

  I think I would rather have one bee in my butt. Because I think presuming there's no, um. Wow. I mean, that really is a rock and a hard place, isn't it?

• 48:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  I can't, I can't explain.

• 49:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  There's no winner here. I think I'm gonna have to say a bee in my butt because there's a probably a positive prism through which you could examine. Get it stung in your bum and it might be that, you know, puts a little spring in your step, wakes you up a little bit, you know? Whereas a mouthful of bees is not much good for an actor.

• 49:19Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you for taking it way too seriously. Uh, what's the, uh, what's the, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 49:25Speaker 02

  Uh. It's, well, it's got lots of text on it at the moment, but it's a photo of my mom and my stepdad after my mother ran the, uh, uh, race for life earlier this year.

• 49:38Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. I'm very, I'm very happy she's doing well. Um, who's the, who's the last actor that you were mistaken for?

• 49:48Speaker 02

  Um. Oh, I don't know, actually. Oh, hang on.

• 49:57Speaker 02

  It's definitely happened. I've probably just blanked it out because my fragile ego couldn't take it.

• 50:02Josh Horowitz?

  Surely you must know it's me, Taron Egerton.

• 50:06Josh Horowitz?

  There's only one.

• 50:08Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I, I, oh, um.

• 50:16Speaker 02

  I feel like someone sent me a shot of an actor from. From the, uh, from the OC or something.

• 50:23Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Not long ago or something.

• 50:24Josh Horowitz?

  Like Ben McKenzie or, um, like.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  I don't know. I've never seen this show. This is not, this, this is a crap answer, isn't it? I'm sorry, Josh.

• 50:32Josh Horowitz?

  It's okay.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  I, yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

• 50:36Josh Horowitz?

  You're good. You're good. What's the worst note you're gonna make up for it with this one? What's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 50:42Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. Um.

• 50:47Speaker 02

  Um.

• 50:51Speaker 02

  Well, like, you know, before I really understood who Matthew was, you know, he would, he would deliver some insane notes to a novice actor to a to a young actor over a god mic on the Warner Brothers sound stages at Leavesden, you know, things to the effect of, what the fuck was that, you know? And luckily, usually by the time I'm on set, I'm doing my thing, I feel reasonably, um, reasonably kind of robust. But yeah, his style was a little, was a little challenging to begin with. But then, uh, as I got to know him, I just realized that, you know, fair is foul and foul is fair and all that.

• 51:37Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, and finally, in the spirit of happy, sad, confused, an actor who always makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're immediately in a better mood.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Uh, I would say, um, oh, probably Philip Seymour Hoffman.

• 51:55Josh Horowitz?

  Always amazing. A true chameleon. A movie that makes you sad.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Uh, um,

• 52:06Speaker 02

  uh,

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Grizzly Man.

• 52:11Josh Horowitz?

  It's a good, yeah, that's a good one. I like it. Okay. And finally, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it. Why do people eat that?

• 52:21Speaker 02

  What's, uh, uni? Is it sea an enemy?

• 52:24Josh Horowitz?

  Sea urchin. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Sea urchin, sea urchin, sea urchin. I'm getting bored with that, man. It's, and I will try anything and I like almost anything. That stuff is, it belongs in the hard shell it came in, because it shouldn't be.

• 52:40Josh Horowitz?

  Send it back into the ocean. Not meant for man.

• 52:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, that doesn't belong on rice. Belongs in the sea.

• 52:46Josh Horowitz?

  It's a delicacy.

• 52:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know. I think it tastes like

• 52:53Speaker 02

  esprit mixtures. No, it's horrible.

• 52:59Josh Horowitz?

  On a happier note.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  Also, yeah. Also, the other one, monkfish liver. That's another thing I was convinced to try at a sushi place recently that I instantly regretted. Anyway, sorry.

• 53:10Josh Horowitz?

  Don't send, send over your complimentary monkfish liver. If you see Taron Egerton at the sushi bar, he will refuse it. He'll throw it back at you.

• 53:18Speaker 02

  I will send it straight back.

• 53:20Josh Horowitz?

  On a brighter note, circling back to the reason we got together today. Congratulations, everybody. She Rides Shotgun is in theaters August 1st. This is a labor of love. This is a small film. Give it some love. A passion project for Taron. He's fantastic in it. And Smoke, people like by now, people are really catching on to this. The reviews are great. It's, uh, it's you and Dennis Lehane need to keep doing this because it's working out. You're two for two.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  Thanks, man. Thank you. So lovely seeing you, mate. Have a great time in San Diego. It's always such a pleasure.

• 53:49Josh Horowitz?

  Thanks, buddy. I'll catch up with you soon.

• 53:51Speaker 02

  Thanks, Brian.

• 53:53Speaker 03

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't. I should do this by Josh.

• 54:13Speaker 06

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