Janelle Monáe: We Should Thank Our Exes (FBF)

Janelle Monáe joins Call Her Daddy to discuss her personal evolution and the work required to reach her own age of pleasure. Addressing past rejection and trauma from her father's instability, she opens up about how these struggles impacted her personal relationships and how she found herself closed off to love. Janelle and Alex reflect on lessons learned from failed relationships and share why we should actually be going back and thanking our exes. Janelle speaks about her experience being in polyamorous relationships and her choice to openly talk about her sexuality despite coming from a religious family. Janelle and Alex discuss what it means if a partner refuses to post you on social media and debate whether this is actually a red flag. Janelle speaks about the inspiration for her new album, The Age of Pleasure, and what this phase of life means to her. For the game mentioned in the episode look for: Real Talk: 110 Relationship Questions You Should Only Ask Your Friends by Amil Barnes.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Cooper?

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• 0:43Alex Cooper?

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• 1:28Alex Cooper?

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• 2:09Alex Cooper?

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• 2:54Alex Cooper?

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• 3:14Alex Cooper?

  What is up Daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy.

• 3:22Alex Cooper?

  Janelle Monae, welcome to Call Her Daddy.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 3:26Alex Cooper?

  I'm, first of all, I'm just so excited to meet you. I'm a huge fan of all your work. I was listening to your music on my way here and I'm like, okay, you are giving sexual sensual fun party vibes. It gives all the vibes. Your album is amazing. I'm so happy to have you here.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you so much for having me, Alex.

• 3:42Alex Cooper?

  Of course.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm a big fan of your show, of your experience rather. So, I was really happy when I found out we were gonna do this. So, thank you.

• 4:08Alex Cooper?

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• 4:53Alex Cooper?

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• 5:37Alex Cooper?

  absolutely taken advantage of. Students can get things like a $5 movie ticket every month, exclusive access to concerts, okay? And even streaming benefits, so you can always have a reality TV binge night with your girls. And when you're already paying for your phone every month, getting all of these extra benefits on top of it, just, it makes sense, right? For all the reasons to choose T-Mobile, find yours at tmobile.com/membership. Qualifying plan required. Visit tmobile.com. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Stoffers. Let me tell you something. When I am hungry and I am trying to figure out what to eat,

• 6:17Alex Cooper?

  sometimes you can just actually become so, you're angry. You're like, I am busy, I'm hungry, I'm getting hangry, I'm getting angry. What can I eat? I need something hot and delicious and low maintenance. Well, introducing Stouffer's dinners are not only delicious, they're done in a flash. Serve up their classic lasagna, chicken pesto, or carbonara for two. Whatever you're craving, Stouffer's is your hot, delicious, easy meal fantasy. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. You can see all the delicious options at Stouffer's.com. Okay, tell me how your summer's going. You were on vacation. Where were you? Let us pretend we were there with you.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Oh, please. I'm like, can we all just go on vacation for the whole summer? Come on, everybody. Everybody, let's do this. Let's all agree that summers are for vacations, paid for by the government.

• 7:13Alex Cooper?

  I love this energy.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Paid for by the government.

• 7:17Alex Cooper?

  Let's, we're gonna like manifest it here now, because it's like, when you were younger, I feel like summers were always vacation because of school. But when you become an adult, nothing is fun anymore. We're like, how, we need to go on vacation. Okay, so where were you?

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Okay, so I was in Ibiza, Ibiza, Spain. And then I stayed there for probably like five or six days, which was like an experience. Like, it is a party place. So we did not go to sleep. I went with like 10 of my other friends and we didn't go to sleep till like 7:00 in the morning every morning. I can't even say night.

• 7:54Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  But it was so fun. It was that

• 7:59Speaker 01

  that ooch ooch music. I kind of like ooch ooch, but I need like some hip hop, some something mixed in with it. But, but it was so fun. The sunsets are beautiful. And then the second portion of the vacay was Jamaica.

• 8:13Alex Cooper?

  Oh, I've never been.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Ocho Rios. Beautiful people. The food, the chicken patties, the beef patties, the shrimp curry.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Ah, the plantains. I had at least a hundred and fifty-two plantains.

• 8:27Alex Cooper?

  What?

• 8:28Speaker 01

  One by one. Yeah.

• 8:31Alex Cooper?

  I'm like, ooh, I feel like I'm there with you.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Ah, it was like, it was heaven. So I will say I'm sort of mentally still there.

• 8:38Alex Cooper?

  It's okay. We can like keep it chill. We're on vacation. This is summer. Like, we're just gonna relax today, okay?

• 8:44Speaker 01

  Let's relax. And it's so interesting that you say like as kids growing up, it just reminded me like I didn't take vacations as a kid.

• 8:51Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  I think that's why I'm so adamant about it now. I didn't, you know, my parents worked a lot and, and we uh, didn't get the opportunity to go outside of Kansas. Um, so I didn't take my first vacation until really my first album came out.

• 9:07Alex Cooper?

  And now you're like, I deserve this?

• 9:10Speaker 01

  I'm making up for lost time.

• 9:11Alex Cooper?

  As you should. That's phenomenal. I feel like when I go on trips with my friends, there's someone in the friend group that's like the planner, that's like the reservations and the itinerary person. And then there's people that are more like chill and just going with the flow. Who are you in the friend group?

• 9:25Speaker 01

  Oh, my god. I'm the one actually sending out the group texts. Like, dinner, I could be at the club, it could be four in the morning. I'm like, lunch is gonna be served at two P M. Breakfast for anybody between nine and noon. Um, dinner's gonna be eight. Like, I love making the itineraries. I'm that friend.

• 9:47Alex Cooper?

  You're the dream, though.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm, yeah. And people are like, Janelle, why are you doing? And I just, I don't know. I just love curating experiences.

• 9:55Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  I grew up actually, um, throwing parties with my best friends, middle school. Sixth grade, seventh grade, we would rent out this location in one of our friend's neighborhoods, sort of white building, and we would charge people a dollar to get in. And I would hide in the bathroom because I didn't know who was gonna come. I had so much anxiety around it. And then once it would get packed, my friends would come underneath the stall because I locked myself in the bathroom. They'd be like, it's packed. Come out, come out, bitch. Get out, get out, get out. And so I've just always loved curating experiences for people.

• 10:33Alex Cooper?

  I, I mean, I think that's a, like, a great trait and quality to have. Like, I feel like that makes a lot of sense of like what I wanted to talk to you about today is obviously your new album, The Age of Pleasure is out. And I was, while I was listening to it, I'm like, you have such a specific, great vibe that's like very infectious, which I love. And I'm curious, like, are you currently in your age of pleasure? Have you always been like, and what is age of pleasure to you?

• 11:00Speaker 01

  Ooh, that's a great question. Um, I wasn't always in my age of pleasure. I've been in age of fear, age of anxiety, age of

• 11:13Speaker 01

  just

• 11:16Speaker 01

  um, worry, uh, a fight. You know, fighting back against systems that seek to oppress folks like myself and the people that I love and centering that. Um, and with this album, which I actually don't even call an album, I say that it is a soundtrack to a lifestyle. It's a lifestyle. You know, we live this. Um, I wrote this, this, this project for my friends and for me. And I was just like, if we fuck with it, that's all I care about. So I would throw parties at, at my house with my friends who own this, um, party collective called Everyday People. And if I knew we were gonna be having and hosting them on a Saturday,

• 11:59Speaker 01

  that Monday or Tuesday, we would go into the studio and we would write like two to three songs that would work in the DJ's playlist. I wouldn't tell anybody it was me. I would not like make a big thing about it. And I would be very nervous, like, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God, are people gonna sit down? Because if people sat down, it was not gonna go on the album. If people were not shazamming, it wasn't going on the album. And so every song that you hear, all of my friends, all of the people who were with us celebrating in this safe space, they are responsible for the songs making the album.

• 12:37Alex Cooper?

  That takes a lot of confidence, but also just like self-awareness to be like, I'm gonna play my friends my songs. They're gonna have no fucking idea it's me and watch, let's see if they vibe with it. So like every single, because I was thinking, I, when I was listening to Champagne shit, I was like, okay, like, this is a vibe, like, I would listen to this, like, getting ready with my friends, like, getting ready to go out, like, but then I'm, oh, I'm wondering, like, so you're sitting there being like, do they like it? Do they like it? And then you're like, check that's going on the soundtrack?

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Yep, I'm like, how do people move? Okay, what, or I saw some people shazamming, and then some people would be like, wait, is this? But I never would confirm. I would go hide and be like, you know, having somebody else tell me what's going on. But yeah, like, it's, it's, as an artist, presenting anything before the world gets it, like, for that first time. I talked to a lot of my artist friends and we're all like, it is one of the most, like, scary things ever, scary feelings to have because it comes from such a pure place when we create and for it not to be accepted. You don't know, you, you know, you, you take it, but for me, I got, I, I was like, I'm ready, I'm okay. I had to heal some shit. You know, because, because some of that is attached to, to just rejection.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  Issues, abandonment issues, like, people don't like my stuff. That could go down to the root of an issue that you just need to fix. And I definitely used a portion of this pandemic to, to sort of work on that and to get to, to my own, you know, traumas that I had to heal. And to get to a place where I was like, wait. I've been really centering fighting so much that I don't even know what my life is like. Outside of that, who am I? You know, I talk, I, I, I like, who am I outside of the fight?

• 14:25Alex Cooper?

  Mm hmm.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  You know, who am I? And so I had to sit with myself and ask myself and. You know, when I think about the word pleasure, there is no pleasure without feeling safe.

• 14:35Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  I didn't always feel safe.

• 14:37Alex Cooper?

  That's so, I appreciate you sharing that because. I one can relate in terms of like putting something creatively out there and being. Extremely nervous to see, obviously, like, are people gonna like it? On top of that, obviously, you infusing parts of. You with your sexuality and race and growing up and your experiences like. That's like a really vulnerable moment to be infusing something into a work of art and then like. Fingers crossed, hoping people like it. You kinda have to slowly be really good with yourself to be able to know like. Sure, I can like perfect my craft a little bit more, but down to the core, like. If people don't like it, I'm still gonna be okay with myself. And that must take time, though.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  Exactly. It does. It takes a lot of unlearning.

• 15:24Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  It takes a lot of, um.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  Fucking with yourself.

• 15:30Alex Cooper?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  You know, and, and, and. Like, I have to say, like. You have to be like, I fuck with me.

• 15:37Alex Cooper?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  You know, yeah, okay. Somebody doesn't like a song that I made, but that doesn't make me. A bad songwriter.

• 15:44Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  That doesn't make me a bad artist. That doesn't mean that I should just throw away my whole career. You know, it, it, and, and you have to just understand that sometimes we're not always in the same. Space. That we can take in.

• 15:58Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  You know, take in the message or the energy that an artist is trying to put out. And, um, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just like, okay. This didn't resonate with you. Okay. Y- but I don't give you that power over me. You're not more powerful. Your thoughts about my art are not more powerful than my thoughts about my art.

• 16:20Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, it's so real what you're saying too, because even when I was listening to you say like, I was fighting for so much of my life, like, and when am I gonna get out of this stage? That's also the beauty of art is like, it will come to it when you're ready. Like, your music would have sounded so different in your fighting stages verse now when you're like, I fucking love myself, I'm more clear on who I am, I'm more secure in certain things that were like eating me alive. Maybe when I was younger and going through it, and you can tell, like this album, I like, it makes you smile, it makes you feel yourself, it makes you just like, want to live. And I, I don't know if that sounds corny, but like, it's fact. No, it's really beautiful.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for sharing that.

• 17:03Alex Cooper?

  Every moment of your soundtrack felt very thoughtful and, and put together, and it is a story. So I just, I'm a creative person, so I just want, you know, I really respect you and it's great.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  Thank you. You know, I, I wanted to focus on feeling too. You know, I think feeling is what music uh gives us. It makes us feel, it makes us wanna dance, it makes us wanna party, it makes us wanna cry, makes us wanna feel ourselves and feel sexy, have sex, all those things is such a powerful energy. And the fact that it's a feeling that I had that I felt like, man, this is, this makes me feel good. Knowing that that makes you feel, and we are just meeting each other. That's such, I think that's such a beautiful exchange, so thank you so much.

• 17:49Alex Cooper?

  Of course. It's interesting, you kinda mentioned this earlier and I wanna talk about it. I know you've talked about going to therapy and working on yourself, and I know you're at a great place in your life and, you know, the age of pleasure, but let's go back a little bit. What is the biggest part of yourself you had to heal in order to be who you are sitting here today?

• 18:13Speaker 01

  Phew, uh, wow. You know, one of the things that I had to do was...

• 18:21Speaker 01

  Again, deal with my rejection and abandonment sort of trauma. Where did that start from? You know, my dad and I, who were like this now, were super close, but my dad struggled with addiction. Growing up, and so he was in and out of my life, and so there were just times where I didn't know if he was really gonna come and pick me up. You know, I just, the trust wasn't there. I felt let down. There were, you know, moments that, that, that that happened all the way up until, you know, high school and, and, and other things that happened. So I had to go back to those times that were painful. That, those times that I, I just had to forgive my dad.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  I was like, I have to forgive you. You were struggling with drug addiction. You were not the best version of yourself. And now that you are, we get to make up for that. We get to make up for that time. And as I healed that and I talked to him about it, a lot changed for me. As I forgave him, I forgave my own self. For spending so many years, you know, in that dark space and connecting that to my art. You know, if, if, I thought that I had done something wrong. You know, why wasn't he showing up for me? And so when you go and you in, in the back of your head are thinking that you're doing something wrong, that your own dad isn't around. If in your art, you feel like people are not

• 19:47Speaker 01

  liking what it is that you're doing, or they're judging you or whatever. It's so all, it's intertwined. You know, the feeling of like them leaving you, like your dad left you. You never want to feel that. And so I had to get to a place where I was, I understood what that was. And I had to let go and I had to be okay with knowing that there's nothing wrong with me if, if, if folks don't want to come to my party. You know, even me hiding in the bathroom. They don't, they didn't want to come to my party. Okay, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with me. My dad, it wasn't nothing wrong, wrong with me while my dad wasn't around. He was struggling. He was battling. And people are battling so many things. People are into different things that perhaps

• 20:29Speaker 01

  what you're, you're doing doesn't necessarily align with it. Or they just plain might not like it. And that's okay. But do you like you?

• 20:39Alex Cooper?

  I think it's so interesting when you start to connect to your childhood and how your parents raised you and, you know, what trauma did you go through? When you don't deal with it, there's just like this anger in you, or there's this like resentment, and there's just a part of you, even if you don't want to label that, like there's just something in you that you feel like you haven't resolved. And a lot of times, we don't have the perspective of kids of like, oh, like this wasn't intentional that my dad was doing this to like neglect me and make me feel abandoned, but it happened. And so two things can be true, right? Like, he wasn't trying to like inflict pain on you. He was going through something, but it affected you.

• 21:20Alex Cooper?

  And until you go through all of that, it's gonna influence the way that you move in life.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  That you see life, yeah.

• 21:28Alex Cooper?

  But even you saying it's interesting, like it affected your art, I'm interested to know, how did it affect your personal relationships with this theme of abandonment within you?

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. It affected them, for sure. Yeah, it was just like trust issues.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  You know, breakups were intense.

• 21:47Alex Cooper?

  Yep.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Cause it just mirrored that, but now, like, there were moments where, you know, I was dating someone and, you know, we broke up and, and, and I just was like, I will never talk to this person again. The way they made me feel, I will never talk to them again. And after I started to, um, go through therapy, and I have an emotional support coach that I talk to.

• 22:09Speaker 01

  After, which, by the way, therapy, like, we're, we're benefiting from therapy. I just really wish that it was free for every person around the world. I really, really, really do wish that there was a fund that everybody could access, to where they could have therapy, they could have somebody to talk to and work through. I do believe that we will be in a much better shape as a community, as a nation, as a world. Um, so I just wanted to say that.

• 22:35Alex Cooper?

  I agree.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Cause I feel like, damn, I wish everybody could go, could experience these things. Um, so I was like, I will never talk to this person again. And after I went through, you know, understanding and, and getting to the root of like my, my rejection abandonment, um, trauma.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  You know what I did? I thanked the person who I was in a relationship with and it did not work out for us. I thanked them, I said, you know what? And my emotional support coach said that I was gonna do that. It's like, you are going to thank this person. Because you know what this person did for you? They forced you to deal with something that you were not going to deal with. They pushed you to go back to the root of the problem. You were not gonna do it, you were moving. You were too busy moving, you didn't have time. But that relationship, the ending of that specific relationship forced that. And I literally called that person and I thanked them. I said, thank you so much.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  You have no idea, like, I was really walking around here hurt. And you forced me to, like... You know, and so they started sharing things with me. They were just like, I just wasn't ready, I was confused myself, I did not trust. It was going so well for us, I'm so used to chaos. That I didn't, I felt like this was not gonna end how I wanted it to end. I'm also dealing with rejection issues. So we just kinda healed through each other. And, and that, and it helped me in my other relationships. I was like, here are the, here are the things that I was doing because of my trauma. When I'm free from that trauma, I'm like a really, really, really, like, beautiful partner to have.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  And it just helped me to understand how I wanna show up for, for my future partners.

• 24:26Alex Cooper?

  Isn't that so interesting when you meet people in life that, obviously, again, like, you needed to work on yourself to be able to have that hindsight and be like, wait, that was so helpful. But like, most of the time, in life, in romantic partnerships, I feel like specifically, like, you can get so hurt by them, but that's not your family. So you're like, I can walk away. But you're always gonna learn something so incredible. And if you can get past that hurt initially, we really should be thanking all of our exes. Cause it's like, even if you cheated on me, like, I have partners in the past that I had so much resentment and anger. And I look back and I'm like... There's so much I learned about myself and my resilience and my worth.

• 25:08Alex Cooper?

  And it's like, had that not happened, of course, there's moments in life where like, I wish no harm on anyone, but like, certain themes that you can take, find the good part of it, rather than feeling so negative and angry, because that gets us nowhere.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:22Alex Cooper?

  That's interesting to hear you talk about, like, how you connected with that person.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:26Alex Cooper?

  At first being like, I'll never talk to you again. And then you're like, wait a second, thank you.

• 25:30Speaker 01

  Thank you. Like, fucking thank you. And I will say, though, I mean, I know it's like, sometimes with exes, because I also had an ex that was just like, man, I wish I really had this new version of you. Like, when we were dating, I wish that I was around, that was the person you showed me. And I was just like, yeah, I, I agree, but listen. What do you want me to say? Like, I wasn't, I wasn't ready. I was growing. I needed to grow and, you know, um, I'm sorry, you know?

• 26:01Alex Cooper?

  True. And you know, it's interesting that I've had, I remember an ex I had kind of similar to that, but you also wonder, like,

• 26:09Alex Cooper?

  but if I was this new version of myself, we probably wouldn't have been together. Because you were attracted to me then, we ended up for some reason, right?

• 26:17Speaker 01

  We were both toxic as hell, as hell.

• 26:20Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  We both were toxic and.

• 26:23Alex Cooper?

  So like, you can wish.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, it wouldn't, you would, we, I would definitely would not, this new version, I would have not dated.

• 26:30Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  You know, that, that, that, that person. I love you.

• 26:33Alex Cooper?

  Yes.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  I love you, but there's just no way that I could put myself back, uh, into that sort of like cha- chaos.

• 26:41Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:42Alex Cooper?

  And it's like, again, it's like, you're both growing. So for him to be even able to see your growth.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:47Alex Cooper?

  Phenomenal. Love it. Amazing. But we probably needed to go on our own ways to actually get whole and good and feel healthy within ourselves. And maybe that's just not the right fit, but at the time it was.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:59Alex Cooper?

  And so we can appreciate each other's growth, but we're not gonna grow together.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Yep. We, we, we grew together and, and that's a beautiful thing. I always want the best for people. Like, even if we're not together, as a human, that also helped contextualize breakups. It's like, even though we're not together, I don't want anything negative to happen to you. I don't want you to, I don't want anything bad to happen to you. As a human, I want the best for you. And if that means that it's not with me at that time or at that season, then so be it.

• 27:26Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:27Alex Cooper?

  If someone's listening to this and is like, wow, I really relate to you. Maybe they had someone in their life that didn't show up for them and was constantly, you know, neglecting to be there and show up. What did actually working through that childhood trauma like look like for you? Because I can see some people like, you know, how do I even begin to like repair this? Like where do I start?

• 27:55Speaker 01

  Ooh, um, I mean, like I said, I just wish everybody could afford therapy. So if, but if you can, try to get you a good therapist that you can just talk freely to, that can help you like, and don't lie to them. You know, don't lie, be transparent, tell the truth, have, make sure that they they're pushing you.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  And you need to not be afraid to do the work. It's gonna be painful. It's gonna be a lot of tears, a lot of crying, a lot of just like confusion, but just know that you're growing. Like you know better, right? You're know, you're, you're understanding you a lot more. And sometimes that, that feels confusing to your body, to your cells, because you're literally being like rerouted, like the way that your mind is, is, is being rewired. So it's gonna feel uncomfortable, but just stay the course. Cause I promise you that if you do the work, there is going to be, you're gonna be like, I never thought I would see the day.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  I literally never thought that I would be this person. It's like I planned, I sort of planned it out, but to live it out and to be living what I dreamt about doing and, and the freedom in which I move, cause it's not that like, you're not gonna deal with issues and problems and things like that. But the way that I'm so solid with myself now, I didn't know, you know, I, I, I, I was free, but, but there are levels to it.

• 29:31Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 29:31Speaker 01

  There are levels to it. So just stay the course and you'll reach the next level.

• 29:36Alex Cooper?

  I love that advice, cause even hearing you talk, it's like, We all reach a point in life when we haven't dealt with our shit where it just starts coming up more and more. Relationships are failing, friendships are having issues, there's things at work, like it just starts to creep up.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:51Alex Cooper?

  And those are usually the moments where in a good way, like you cannot deny you need to address it. And I love that you said it's so fucking uncomfortable.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:00Alex Cooper?

  But you gotta do the work because then you won't be uncomfortable. But you're going against something that you literally have been living this way your whole life.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:07Alex Cooper?

  So you're going like against the grain.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  You're going against yourself. Your future self is fighting your past version, old version of yourself.

• 30:15Alex Cooper?

  Damn.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  It's like Looper. In a sense, but different.

• 30:19Alex Cooper?

  Right, right.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 30:20Alex Cooper?

  Um, you mentioned now that you have a good relationship with your father.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:24Alex Cooper?

  And I can imagine there are people really relating to you today also of like, how did you know it was time for, that you were going to be able to forgive and have an actual relationship with your dad?

• 30:38Speaker 01

  I wanted it. You gotta want it too. Sometimes you're just like, mm. I don't really want a relationship just because you birthed or helped bring me into this world. Like as a person, you can be like, I don't really want this. And that's totally fine. I think I wanted it because my dad is cool. Like my dad also had a music career. But drugs got in the way of that. And so me and him can talk music. He understands like all my favorite artists or his favorite artists. When I put out Lipstick Lover, all of the art that, that I'm doing, my dad supports it. Like he's like, I want you to know as your dad, I think what you're doing is brave, is sick as fuck.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  I love you. I want you to know I got your back. Like as a black man in this, in, in, living in this country, I'm supporting you. My queer, non-binary, um, you know, artistic daughter, like I'm here for you. And I knew he always had that sort of, that's sort of where I get, both my parents are like. Shows, like they could each have their own TV show. And people, they would not care about me. They'd be like, your mom and your dad, like, you know, they're not together because they're very much so alike in, in many ways, you know, they're just super like flamboyant and their personalities can take up a room, um, but good, sweet people.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  Um, so with my dad, I always knew that like, when it was time to take risks, that was gonna be the person that was gonna affirm me. And I, and I, and I wanted that and I needed that. And also for him, I wanted to give him another opportunity, post, like, being sober, to know me, you know, to know me. I think, I think that, that for both of us, we needed that. Like, I needed to have the support of, of, of my dad. And I felt like for him to have been, because he'd also gone to prison. So he had been locked away for years and I was like,

• 32:39Speaker 01

  I want him to come out sober and to know what it's like to receive love from me.

• 32:46Alex Cooper?

  Was that?

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Not guilt.

• 32:49Alex Cooper?

  How old were you when your dad went to prison?

• 32:51Speaker 01

  I'm timeless, so.

• 32:53Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, it doesn't matter. I was there. I was alive at some point.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. No, but I was, uh, this, it was on and off, you know, middle school, elementary school, high school, like, always.

• 33:05Alex Cooper?

  You're so successful in so many different areas. Like, you're an author, you're an actor, you're a singer. It's insane how talented you are. And I'm thinking, again, it's always like, we never know what someone goes through, like, you rising to fame, having your father, you know, having these struggles, like, were you ever just, was, was he still struggling when you first came up and started to get famous?

• 33:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, no, he was, that's when he sort of got, got clean. So that was great. That was good. I needed that right at that time.

• 33:39Alex Cooper?

  Cause I was gonna say, like, damn, like, everyone probably seen you in the tablets and everything, like, having all this success and yet.

• 33:48Alex Cooper?

  You want to repair a relationship with your father because there's nothing, everyone can relate. When you do something so good at work or at school or when you want to call your parents.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:58Alex Cooper?

  And you, because you know, there's no one that's going to be more proud of you.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:01Alex Cooper?

  And so I appreciate you sharing that little bit because it's like, yes, you have all this success and but family, and again, when I say family, I always make sure to clarify, like, I don't care if they're blood. Like, you don't have to be with people that abuse you or whatever, whatever you consider who your family is.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 34:17Alex Cooper?

  To be able to repair relationships if you want it.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:21Alex Cooper?

  It is kind of beautiful because you get to share your life with people that love you and support you. And there's no jealousy. It's just like, we fucking love you. Like your mom outside the talent show is being like,

• 34:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:32Alex Cooper?

  Mom, stop.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  Mom.

• 34:34Alex Cooper?

  No, it's really cute.

• 34:52Alex Cooper?

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• 35:38Alex Cooper?

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• 36:20Alex Cooper?

  strains for pregnancy and postpartum microbiome support to support digestive health, mood, vaginal health, and baby's immune health. I have been trying so hard to take care of myself during this pregnancy, and I think something that has been very helpful is actually learning about the things that now I will carry, not only just during this pregnancy, but I will continue to take care of myself in a way that I really never have before. I think sometimes as women, we don't have the tools or we don't know what we're supposed to be doing, and so we sometimes just freeze and we don't do anything. And since having Ritual in my life, it has been so nice to have this daily ritual where I'm actually taking care of myself and my baby, which feels great. So whether you're pregnant, postpartum, or looking for everyday trusted daily gut support,

• 37:05Alex Cooper?

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• 37:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:32Alex Cooper?

  How have you decided to make that decision in this crazy Hollywood world that we live in?

• 37:38Speaker 01

  I just did. I was like, hmm. I was watching, observing. I was like, you know, the people that actually are more private seem more happy to me. They just seemed more happy, you know, because it's like, you don't have to worry about, you know, anybody seeing your partner.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  Over here and been like, oh, they're not, they're, they, they assume that if you're not with them and they're seeing with somebody else that you broke up and now you gotta go answer that question, you have to go do that. And perhaps maybe later on in life, I'll open up a little more, but for now, I love having, I love protect, and it really is for the protection of, of, of them.

• 38:22Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 38:22Speaker 01

  Um, I, I don't want them to, you know, cause I can handle sort of like paparazzi or whatever. It's annoying sometimes. Sometimes it's fun. I love messing with them, whatever, but I never want anybody that I'm dating to ever feel pressure. Um, cause they didn't ask for it. You know, they didn't ask for it. So I just like to keep peace.

• 38:46Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  And, and harmony and no expectation from the public to know our every move.

• 38:51Alex Cooper?

  Hmm. I think that's really healthy and I think in a weird way, I do always talk about on my show now, like, I feel like people now more than ever can kind of relate to a lack of privacy, even if you have five hundred followers, like we have accessibility now to post as much as we want. And I think there are people that feel societal pressure to like, post my partner with me because it's like, there's almost like social currency that comes with like, being this it couple and having, whether you're in college or high school, like this is everywhere now where people are feeling pressured to prove something on the internet.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:30Alex Cooper?

  And when you can actually step back from it, I'm not saying don't post on the internet, but like, try to find a balance within yourself of like, why are you actually doing this? Why are you doing certain things? Is it just to get the photo to prove something to people?

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:42Alex Cooper?

  It's just, it's not as healthy. It's like, you know, like live, some type of privacy is really good for yourself. Cause then you can also be with yourself of like, do I like this person or do I like how I'm doing this? Or do I even wanna do this?

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:54Alex Cooper?

  You kinda have to like, make sure you're not just doing it for the gram.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, seriously. I think because it's the norm to people to be like, well, you must post your kids and who you're dating and, you know, it's sort of like, that's the norm these days. Um, definitely, I don't feel like anybody should feel pressure. And I think that if you are in a relationship where they're like, if you don't post me, we're done. I've had like people, we were just talking about this when we were on vacay. And there was a question like, are, would you be upset if your partner did not post you on social media? And there were a lot of mixed questions, I mean, answers, but I was just like, we have to talk about that first and foremost. And if we agree that we want to keep things private, then no.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  But also like, if my love is defined by a post, you don't post me enough on social media. Like, I really need to understand my own damn, like, priorities in life. Is that really necessary for me? So I just think it's, like, for me, it's not. Um, I do think people should have conversations around it prior, so that there are no expectations and, you know, because it could hurt somebody's feelings too, though, if they feel like you're trying to hide them. But that's deeper. That's like, y'all need to really. Y'all need to really work through some things, yeah.

• 41:19Alex Cooper?

  No, that's true, because I'm thinking about it, like, I feel like there are some people that also now, because social media has been like, very, you know, prevalent for the past, I guess, like, ten something years. People may have been in relationships where someone was extremely adamant about posting them, and they almost found like, when we're good, he posts me. When we're not, he doesn't post me. So when you go to your next relationship, I bet there are some people that have like lingering feelings about like, well, why aren't you posting me? And someone could literally be like, because I don't think we need to. I love you. We're sitting here together. Isn't this better than us taking a selfie? So also, check in with yourself of like, are you comparing yourself to your friends or your past relationships? Get on the same page as your current partner.

• 42:02Alex Cooper?

  Because they may not be being shady at all. They're actually like, no, I fucking love you, and I don't feel like we need to.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  And I want, or I want to protect you from, you know, all of the scrutiny or the, you know, just, just things like, that online world, it's its own matrix and, you know, it's, it's tough.

• 42:20Alex Cooper?

  It's wild. What are you like in a relationship? Are you romantic? Are you dominant? Like, what's the vibe over there?

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Ooh, um, that was also, we played this game called, oh, God, I'm gonna, uh...

• 42:37Speaker 01

  I gotta get the, get the name of it. Actually, it's a, a, a, a black guy who made the game, card game. So it's not a lot of us in that space. So I really, really have to get the name of it. Oh, my God. It's the, anyway, one of the cards said.

• 42:49Alex Cooper?

  If you want, I can link it in the description. When you, if you have your team send it.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  You're so sweet. How sweet of you.

• 42:53Alex Cooper?

  I got it. I got it. Of course.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  Okay, but the, one of the questions was like, what would your ex say about you? And we were just like, everybody was like, oh, wow, that's a good one. Um, I feel like now. I am, let me think. I mean, cause you know, it's like, and so the question, when the question. Made me be like, well, this is what I think about myself, but what if? That isn't what they thought about me. Like, okay, of course I'm gonna say glowing reviews about me. You know, or maybe like a couple of things that I need to work on, but you know, it could have been some other things. So for me, if I was being honest in a relationship.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  I mean, I think I used to be a very like hard to know if I really loved them. Sort of person, like it was hard to get to my heart. Because I had just been hurt and I hadn't really again dealt with sort of that trauma or of, of someone, what it would feel like of somebody leaving me. I never wanted anybody to leave.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Me and if they did, I didn't want them to ever feel like.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  I really loved you, you know, cause like if you, if I really told you that I really loved you and you, we still didn't work. Then like, wow, what a stab in the heart, right?

• 44:13Alex Cooper?

  Yep.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  Um, but now having gone to this new space, um, I'm a big communicator. I, you know, believe in evolution, even in your partnerships. And even if you started out one way, I'm always open to us growing. And I wanna make sure that as we grow individually and as, you know, together, um. I've also been in polyamorous relationships as well and I, you know, know what it's like to be with multiple partners. So it's very important that, you know, we're communicating in real time about our feelings and. If things are coming up, like if, if one person feels like, okay, um.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  I'm having feelings of jealousy, or I need some more time with both of you, or you know, uh, how do we, you know, if we, if we need to like work on some things, I like to know that. And I always welcome, you know, feedback. I'm that type of person. Like I li- I don't, I don't ever want to be in a relationship where uh, I'm thinking we're good and we're not.

• 45:26Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, like you're wondering like.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Like, just let me know.

• 45:28Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Because I, I could probably adjust. We could adjust. Perhaps it was a misunderstanding. Or perhaps like, oh, you know, maybe you thought you knew me, or you knew how, you, you don't know how much I love you.

• 45:43Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  I need to be more expressive in, in those things. And um, so I think I'm averse.

• 45:51Alex Cooper?

  I love it.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  So I, I can be dominant, sub. Like, you know, I'm non-binary as well, so I can go with the, I can go with the flow.

• 46:01Alex Cooper?

  You're going with the flow. I love it.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  Meaning like, I don't, I don't just consider myself like to be boxed in as like this type of partner. Like sometimes you need me to be more like water. Okay.

• 46:12Alex Cooper?

  Okay.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  I need to be more like water. You need me to be more like a rock for us? Okay. I'll be more like a rock for us.

• 46:21Alex Cooper?

  How did you know? Was there like a conversation, or did you just know the moment when you first had your first polyamorous relationship? Like, how did you know that you were comfortable with that dynamic?

• 46:33Speaker 01

  Well, I was already in a relationship and, and the person who was a- attracted um, to me was also attracted to my partner. And so they made it very clear and we just made it work.

• 46:45Alex Cooper?

  Okay. Would you, would you continue to have those type of relationships again? Like, are you still interested in that, or has anything changed?

• 46:52Speaker 01

  Sure. I'm open to love. You know, I'm like, I think, you know, I love going to weddings and, you know, there are certain traditions that I love and congratulations, I know you're engaged.

• 47:05Alex Cooper?

  Thank you.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  So congratulations, so I honor love.

• 47:07Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, of course.

• 47:08Speaker 01

  And I think though, love comes in different, different variations. And that is what I love about polyamory is it just shows us like, just in the same way, like I don't have just one best friend. I have multiple best friends and I love y'all. You know, we love each other and we can all hang out. I don't just love one parent. I don't just love one aunt.

• 47:30Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 47:30Speaker 01

  Like, I love all of you and, and um, in relationships, you know, I think when uh, intimate relationships, partnerships, I think that if we can talk about um, what we need and what works for all of us. And I'll tell you, like, it takes a lot of unlearning.

• 47:49Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Cause we're conditioned, especially in this society, that this is what a union looks like. This is what um, you know, it's two people in a relationship, you know, um. It, it, it's like so you're, you're, you're fighting against, or not fighting against, but you're, you're constantly have to, having to unlearn uh, uh, the traditional way of, of what love looks like. And so I love to, by being my authentic self and us being our authentic selves, challenge that notion.

• 48:22Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. I love that because what is very frustrating and I love having conversations like this on my show because uh, you're right, we were all raised with something that was like, this is the norm. And it's like, I'm so happy finally, I mean, there's so, so much work to be done, but like, even with sexuality and, you know, fluidity, it's just like, what, like, it's very frustrating, I think, for people that see it so clearly, like, let everyone do what they wanna do. And then people that are still so stuck in the way that they want things to have been done for thousands of years prior. When you speak about polyamory, like, I can imagine there are people that are so judgmental of even that word, like, how, how do you even do that?

• 49:05Alex Cooper?

  And like, it's so small-minded and it's also like, half the people that are saying that are speaking from a place of insecurity. Because I've seen people do it and be like, isn't he cheating on his wife? And like, it's like, there's so much judgment when, when it, something really frustrates someone, I always believe like, there's something internally that like, is getting you going, cause why do you care so much?

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:25Alex Cooper?

  But how did you, I'm assuming at some point, you have dealt with judgment and to anyone listening, that's also maybe like, going against the norm, which, fuck the norm, let's just make everything normal.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:36Alex Cooper?

  How did you deal with that?

• 49:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, always, always, always. People are intrigued, people think, you know, um.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  I think all sorts of things, but I think education is important. I mean, we have the internet. People can look things up. And I mean, my close friends are super supportive. Um, you know, certain family members have been like, hmm. But for the most part, my, my circle of people that I have around have been supportive. Even if they have questions and they wonder like, okay, all right. Cause also people are trying to figure out, well, hmm. Is that what I need or what we need or? Cause I've definitely been cheating on my significant other for a very long time. But what if after all, we just needed a third? We needed somebody else, you know, that, that loved us and we love them.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Um, to, to, to, to be a part of our union. You know, people are trying, and people are scared. I understand that too. Some people are scared to go against tradition and, you know, some people come from conservative environments. I came from, you know, conservative Baptist background where I was taught to fear everything. You know, even getting into the music industry, I was taught to just fear. You know, don't be like this artist or don't be like that or, you know. It's just been a lot of unlearning and, and I get that. And I, and I think, I think though for me, I, I have to know that this is my life here on earth. I wasn't put here to, um, um, to follow every rule.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  I was, I was put here to help rewrite them.

• 51:15Alex Cooper?

  Yeah. I really appreciate you talking about that because it's just such a prevalent topic. That's still like is we, again, we have so much movement that we need to keep doing. But I think having conversations like this help. I'm curious to know, like, how did you decide, obviously being a public figure, to speak openly about your sexuality?

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Ooh, how did I decide? It's sort of like decided for me because my art is a direct reflection of who I am. You know, I, I have Metropolis, which is my first EP. I have a lot of independent work I put out before that. And then I did The Arch Android, my first full-length album, Sweets. Then I did The Electric Lady, Dirty Computer, and all the way now to The Age of Pleasure. And, and all those projects that have come out, um.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  I discovered that, I mean, I knew when I was a child that I was attracted um to not just boys, but to women uh and to energies. I knew that and and because of my sort of conservative Baptist um upbringing, it wasn't welcomed. I I suppressed my sexuality, I suppressed my sensuality, I suppressed so much of me because I didn't feel safe. And so, once I got to a place where, okay, I know for sure, for sure, uh that um, you know, I I am I I am attracted to to to, you know, these energies, um, I I'm gonna honor that. Mm-hmm.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  And with each project, you could, you can hear me and feel me getting more brave. You know, I created um the android Cindy Mayweather, who is representative of uh in my work, who's representative of the other, you know, the queer person, the the um black person, the non-binary person, trans, all of all of us who are pushed to the margins of society. And so, I use that as a form of like a form of coping, a coping mech- mechanism until I was brave enough to actually say it. And I think I was always dropping hints and I was getting more brave and, you know, less afraid.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Um and then finally, um because also, I was in a relationship Mm-hmm. in in what some would say, you know, it was a lot of things, like, you know, understanding, you know, polyamory is was something that I wanted to explore. Well, if you're already in a relationship, you have to go have conversations with that person's family. Well, what does that mean for you guys? And da-da-da. So I could not talk publicly about certain things because they impacted my real everyday life. You know what I'm saying? Like, when I got off the stage, I would also have to go see These communities that I was a part of and like if they heard about it through you know

• 54:14Speaker 01

  any other thing outside of like me saying it then what does that mean and I just wasn't ready to have those sorts of conversations? And so I guess to answer your question like you know I just got brave over time and once I also felt like I had community because the albums and the art and music what it also does is it signals like hey I'm out here, I'm out here. And then you meet people who come to your shows and you meet other artists and people, other humans who like are like, oh, I identify with that or I fuck with that and then we become friends and you have a community now that supports you, that sees you, that even if your family you were born into doesn't support you or see you, you have support.

• 54:57Speaker 01

  And so once I felt supported and I felt safe enough, that's when I started to become even more brave and I um, I started to be courageous in the way that I started to live my life and I think right now what I am doing, I've done this privately, is that I'm honoring all of me. I'm not closing off, you know, my sensuality anymore. I'm not closing off my sexuality, my polyamory. If you listen to Only Have Eyes Forty Two, you know, that's honoring that sort of union. Um, if you're listening to Hot From The Age Of Pleasure or Champagne Shit or even Float, you know? You know, I, I, I'm feeling much lighter now. Float, I had to let some things go

• 55:41Speaker 01

  um, to get to this place and fear of not being accepted was one of them. And once I got over that hump, everything started to change for me.

• 55:52Alex Cooper?

  Community, when you were saying that, like I hope everyone listening, if you're sitting, listening to this or watching this in your room and you haven't been able to fully embrace your sexuality, whether it's people around you, you're afraid how they're gonna accept you, like there are so many people out there that will love you and like are so having the same feelings as you. And so just don't limit yourself to just the people that you've been assigned as family to you.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  Absolutely, it gets better. Yep, as you start walking, whenever you're ready, don't feel pressured too. Cause I mean, there were moments where um, I felt the pressure to talk, like interviewers would, they would just speculate based on my appearance because I was wearing a suit. They were like, hmm. You're a lesbian, like that's what I would get. You're a lesbian. You're so inappropriate. You know, as I was trying to discover who I was and I didn't identify with being a lesbian, I, I, I, you know, and, and I had lesbian friends. I love my lesbian family, but like people would say certain things and try to force me to out what I was. Well, if you're not a lesbian, then what are you? Yeah. And so I wasn't ready. So don't feel, also feel pressured

• 57:00Speaker 01

  to talk about your sexuality. It is a private, it can be as private or as public as you want it to be. Um, for me, it was seeping out into my art so much that like, I'm like, yeah, this is, this is me. Yeah. This is who I am. And I wanted to also free a lot of people who were in their rooms, who could be in their rooms right now, listening. Like, you have family, you have a church, even outside of the, the church that you went to, if they disown you, like, there is a big church around the world with people who will affirm you, people who are like you. Your identity is not new.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  Like it's been happening. We're here. We're showing up for each other. And I love you. I love you.

• 58:04Alex Cooper?

  This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. I always think it is so important to find time to take care of myself because I think self-care for me, a lot of times, is getting some alone time, even it's just go on a 10-minute walk outside. Self-care can obviously look different at different stages of life and the ways that we practice it often evolve over time. But one possible way to take care of yourself is through therapy. Therapy with BetterHelp, one of the leading online therapy platforms, can be a space to prioritize your mental health, reflect on where you are and check in with yourself. With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp has served millions of people globally. BetterHelp makes it easier To fit therapy into your routine with flexible ways to connect that work for different schedules and lifestyles.

• 58:50Alex Cooper?

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• 59:34Alex Cooper?

  I need something hot and delicious and low maintenance." Well, introducing Stouffer's dinners are not only delicious, they're done in a flash. Serve up their classic lasagna, chicken pesto, or carbonara for two. Whatever you're craving, Stouffer's is your hot, delicious, easy meal fantasy. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. You can see all the delicious options at Stouffer's dot com. When I was researching, I read somewhere you don't refer to opening up to others about your sexuality as coming out, but rather coming in. Can you explain that?

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  I didn't actually come up with that terminology of coming in. I just thought it resonated with me more. A guy by the name of John, I forgot his last name, but I heard him say it, and he's a queer black man. And I heard him and I was like, "That's exactly what it is." It is bringing people, bringing people into our worlds. I'm letting you in on who I am versus like, "You guys are the norm and I'm just like, 'Hi, I'm out here.'" Like, no. I'm letting you in to my world, which is sacred, which should be respected and appreciated. Most certainly not apologetic about it.

• 1:00:51Alex Cooper?

  I love that. You're so right, cuz it's like, I'm letting you in on who I am. I don't, you don't deserve me. I don't have to come out to you. I don't owe you anything.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:01:00Alex Cooper?

  Like, when I feel comfortable, I'll let you in.

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  Like, come clean.

• 1:01:03Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  You're, come out of the closet.

• 1:01:05Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  I'm sorry. I've been here. You just must not have seen me.

• 1:01:12Alex Cooper?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  Um, or, not even you must not have seen me, you must think that you and your, or you know what? Let's not even talk about that.

• 1:01:20Alex Cooper?

  Nope.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  I was gonna go down a whole stream.

• 1:01:22Alex Cooper?

  Supposedly, I could too. I could too.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:25Alex Cooper?

  How about this? Do you have a mantra you come back to when it comes to people who actively do not agree with the way that you live?

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  Ooh, yeah, I do. I have so much. I wish I had my phone with me. Um, but I think it comes down to power, you know? I think, like, when you give your power up to folks, like, people's opinions have more power over you than how you feel about you. That's, I think, where things take that turn, where the depression sets in, where the constant need for approval comes in. And I think I'm a powerful ass motherfucker, you know? Really?

• 1:02:03Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  Just as, you're powerful. We're all powerful, right? We all hold gifts that we have, and I think that, you know, again, how I think about myself has to be more powerful than someone who is trying to take me down through their negativity, who is trying to oppress me through their fear. My power and my love for myself is greater than that.

• 1:02:33Alex Cooper?

  Mic drop.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:34Alex Cooper?

  Mic drop. What is something, when it comes to dating and love, that you know now that you wish you knew when you were younger?

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  Oof. Sheesh. Man, um...

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  I would say, I wish I had discovered vibrators a long time ago. Like honestly, it's so fun to experience that with your partner.

• 1:02:59Alex Cooper?

  It's phenomenal.

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  It's so great. It's like, what, going to the sex shop? Like, I remember when I first went, see, again, when you come from those sort of like conservative backgrounds, a sex shop, I was full sunglasses on, like, do not have me in here. Oh, my God, what am I, oh, my God, please, nobody take photos of me. Like, I did not know.

• 1:03:20Alex Cooper?

  Right.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  I did not know the world of vibrators. I did not know the clitoral stimulation that you and your, the fun y'all can have with one. You know, it doesn't necessarily have to be penetration.

• 1:03:33Alex Cooper?

  It's life changing.

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  Right? How about you?

• 1:03:36Alex Cooper?

  I remember, I, I didn't have one and my friend bought me one for my birthday in college. And I, I remember like the first time I tried something was the back of my electric toothbrush. And I was like.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  I ain't gonna front, the electric toothbrushes, if you're, if you forget, just go buy you a brand new one.

• 1:03:55Alex Cooper?

  It slaps.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  It's gotten me through, it's gotten me through.

• 1:03:58Alex Cooper?

  It is a lifesaver. And so I, I felt the same way though of, I, my friend got me my first one and then I was like, oh, my God, like, I'd never have to have sex again. Like, this is amazing. Like, it just allowed me to recognize that, like, I hold the power of like my own orgasm and like, I, I don't need someone else to make me feel amazing. Like, I can do it myself because being taught, like, we grow up and it's just like, the men will do this for you and like, you, and I'm like, why am I gonna wait for a motherfucker to give me an orgasm? Like, this is amazing.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Exacta mundo.

• 1:04:30Alex Cooper?

  Don't wait for a man or anyone to give you, you can do it yourself. So I remember, I felt the same way in New York. I remember the first sex shop I went to with my friend, I was not famous, but like, I was mortified just being like, I just can't make eye contact. And I think that just comes from like shame of like, we're not normalizing, like, like exploring your sexuality and enjoying, especially as women, like enjoying sex, loving sex, being connected with your body. And I think it's so important that. We start to have those conversations at younger ages, obviously in a safe way, but like especially for young girls, you just start to like feel shame and like you're doing something wrong. And that's why so many women, I truly believe, like we have such a hard time in the beginning, like figuring out what works for us and knowing how to like get off.

• 1:05:15Alex Cooper?

  We were like, it was basically like, don't touch yourself. You're a slut and it's like.

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  Or you're a deviant or like touching yourself, gross. You know, like if it was not, you go get a boyfriend and y'all wait, but don't have sex actually until you're married. So go marry to have sex. Like I have cousins who actually married women just to have sex. Because they were just like, God won't. It's a lie. It's a lie and I'm, I, I, I will always just like, you know, say like, my heart goes out to to those of us who have clitorises and, and, and, and just not just those of us who are with, with clitoris, even you know, for, for those of us who

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  have penises or whatever it is, the pleasure that we can give ourselves, like how that was stripped away from us.

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  I just hope that we can reconnect again with our bodies and reclaim our bodies. That's the space that I'm in. Like I am reclaiming my sensuality, my, my sexuality, my pleasure. Like unapologetically, like I'm not apologizing for talking about it, for taking time to myself. To make up for lost times. I mean, I think I could have avoided a lot of just even sexual interactions with people who I didn't really like, but I just was like, well, this is the only way that I can feel less shame about sex is if I do it with this person. But like, that leads to so much confusion sometimes if you don't really, really, really like this person and they don't really, really like you and

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  it's a whole thing. And so I think you actually avoid.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  You have less stress when you take matters into your own hands, literally.

• 1:07:09Alex Cooper?

  Absolutely. Okay, everyone listening today, we are entering our era of the art of pleasure. Okay, we're taking it into our own hands.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  Yes, we are.

• 1:07:17Alex Cooper?

  Um, I know we've been kind of like essentially talking about it this whole episode because we're talking about pleasure and finding our own voices to find that pleasure. But what has been the most rewarding part of making this soundtrack for you?

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, just like, you know, we're talking about it's a soundtrack to a lifestyle. And I think so many people, you know, that I'm that I'm hearing, that's why I can't wait to go on tour. I'm on tour. Our first show is in Seattle, the end of August. We're on tour, so get your tickets. We have some more, a little bit more available. Um, but they're selling out right now and I'll be on tour in North America through October 21st. The Age of Pleasure Tour. And so to see how people are like

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  making this their album, owning it and like with their friends, I see them just certain songs, they're like, oh my God, you're speaking to my heart. Like I, I needed to hear Float. I needed to give myself permission to, to let things go and, and to go into my, you know, a stage of like what Hot is talking about. Like I look good, I look sexy, I look handsome. Like non-binary folks are feeling seen, trans folks are being seen. Like the community in which I intended for it to be, and even outside of that, I think that you don't necessarily have to be a part of my community to, to, to vibe with it.

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  I think that what it just represents is like, even in the midst of chaos, you gotta find your pleasure. You have to make time for yourself. And I actually brought you something.

• 1:08:55Alex Cooper?

  What?

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  I brought you something. So, here's

• 1:08:59Alex Cooper?

  Oh my God.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  My official Age of Pleasure Tour. I cut mine.

• 1:09:03Alex Cooper?

  Wait, I was gonna say, it's so cute. No, it's so cute. You know I'm gonna do this. Like, it's so cute.

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  I wanted to bring you

• 1:09:12Alex Cooper?

  This is so sweet.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  A shirt. And if you need another size.

• 1:09:16Alex Cooper?

  No, this is so good.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  I'll give you another one.

• 1:09:19Alex Cooper?

  No, I'm, can I cut it like you?

• 1:09:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, cut it like me.

• 1:09:22Alex Cooper?

  I'm just caught being you. But I've been staring at it and like, it's such a

• 1:09:25Speaker 01

  It's yours.

• 1:09:26Alex Cooper?

  Thank you.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  I adore you.

• 1:09:28Alex Cooper?

  It's so dope.

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  I wanted to bring you a hand.

• 1:09:34Alex Cooper?

  This is so good.

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  A handwritten, um, autographed, that's what I mean to say. I autographed you a copy of my book that I released in twenty twenty-one called The Memory Librarian.

• 1:09:48Alex Cooper?

  Thank you so much.

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  Of Dirty Computer and, um, yes.

• 1:09:52Alex Cooper?

  This is bringing the gifts, but, and girl, I know you just got back from vacation.

• 1:09:58Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:09:58Alex Cooper?

  You're giving us all, you're getting us in our feels. We're all ready to go have sex with our stuff.

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 1:10:03Alex Cooper?

  We got a book, we got a shirt.

• 1:10:05Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 1:10:06Alex Cooper?

  Okay, to anyone that is like, you gotta tell us, what is, if you have to pick,

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:12Alex Cooper?

  what is your favorite song on the soundtrack?

• 1:10:15Speaker 01

  Ooh, shoot. Wow.

• 1:10:18Alex Cooper?

  Everyone's gonna go listen to this one.

• 1:10:20Speaker 01

  It's so, okay. It varies because all of them, man, I, I, I mean, I hate to say it, but it's, it's, um, it's not a long album. I usually put out like, excuse me, like double albums and with this one, I wanted you to wanna replay it over and over and over again. I didn't wanna, excuse me, I didn't want it to be too long because this one was just on, um, President Barack Obama's, um, Song of Summer, Only Have Eyes forty-two, four-two. Uh, so listen to that one.

• 1:10:53Alex Cooper?

  Love it.

• 1:10:53Speaker 01

  I mean, but I love every last song on this project. I'm having a hard time like figuring out what songs we're gonna play on tour. I think I might have to just play all of them. I don't know, but because I love, I, I also thought about them from a live perspective and just

• 1:11:08Alex Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:09Speaker 01

  how fun it's gonna be to perform Champagne Shit and

• 1:11:13Alex Cooper?

  It's gonna be insane.

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  And I don't know, what songs were you vibing to?

• 1:11:17Alex Cooper?

  I, I said Champagne Shit, um, is it called Phenomenal?

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11:21Alex Cooper?

  I really like that one, like

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  Featuring Dochi.

• 1:11:24Alex Cooper?

  Yeah, it's a vibe where like I don't know, I really like that one. Like, but again, I, it feels like it's a story that's being told. And you're just like, it's almost like an anthem vibe where you're just like vibing the whole time. So I, I agree. I guess I couldn't like pick one too, because you almost have to like listen to it all together. Like start to finish to like feel it.

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  Because a Dry Red is good, the last song, I love.

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  I, when I was writing this album, I wrote it with friends. I gotta give a shout out to Nate Rocket Wonder, to Bueno, to Nana Kwabena, and also the features. Like, some of my favorite things is just to look down and be like, okay, Grace Jones is literally on this album. You know, Sister Nancy, who is like, bom bom, you know, we can't go anywhere at a, at a party without hearing her Jamaican influence, Petra, her Jamaican influence. When I think about, um, Nia Long, who is an incredible actress, coming and being a part of it, Amare, Dochi,

• 1:12:26Speaker 01

  who else, uh, Fela, Kuti Sun, Shayun Kuti, uh, lots of horns on this project, um, CK's on this project, uh, I don't know, it's just so, like, such a beautiful love letter to the diaspora and to, um, to music that, again, has gotten us through, you know? Um, a lot of the influences come from a lot of my friends who were in, you know, who are from Nigeria at our parties, Ghana, uh, South Africa, LA, New York, Atlanta, um, you know, all of us coming together and, and feeling safe. Safe enough to explore, safe enough to be.

• 1:13:11Alex Cooper?

  Janelle, I can't thank you enough for coming on Call Her Daddy. This was truly such a pleasure. I'm so happy I got to sit in the same room with you and feel your energy. Thank you, thank you.

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  You are fantastic, Alex. Thank you so much for having me and all the beautiful work you do. Like, I don't really love doing lots of interviews, but you have a very great way of, of connecting human to human with folks. And I'm sure people tell you that a lot, but I'll just say, like, I feel your aura and your energy through the screen. And, um, just congratulations on everything.

• 1:13:45Alex Cooper?

  Thank you.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  You're fantastic.

• 1:13:46Alex Cooper?

  Thank you.

• 1:14:03Alex Cooper?

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• 1:14:47Alex Cooper?

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