Vanessa Kirby

Vanessa Kirby is finally on the pod and it's for a good reason at last -- talking all things FANTASTIC FOUR! UPCOMING EVENTS! Ben Stiller & Seth Rogen LIVE in Los Angeles on August 15th! Get your tickets here Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot designed to keep you connected. Powered by Verizon's 5G network. And no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code HACK. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy? You might be dehydrated. Whether it's hot yoga, over 100 degree weather, or too much sun. Gator Light, with a specialized blend of five electrolytes, was scientifically designed to help move fluids into the body faster for rapid rehydration. Shop now at retailers nationwide. Gator Light hydrates faster than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 0:59Josh Horowitz?

  As the nature of being a superhero, you kind of have to do like the hand movements thing, right? You have to sell that. Is there a discussion of like, oh, wait, I, we need to sell Sue's hand movements in a different way than Scarlet Witch? I need a different special hand movement than Lizzie.

• 1:15Speaker 03

  Exactly, Josh. Oh, my gosh, you're so perspect, you're so perceptive. I had that conversation daily because what she does is incredible and it's so definitive. And I also wanted to understand the powers at a very, a very fundamental level. Otherwise, I think I would feel a bit silly. You know what I mean? I knew I would feel silly kind of waving my hands around without really understanding what it feels like to do it.

• 1:39Speaker 04

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

• 1:47Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys, it's Josh here. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today, we are celebrating the next big blockbuster of the summer with Sue Storm herself. That's right, Vanessa Kirby on the podcast, talking all things Fantastic Four. Very excited about this one. A first time guest on Happy, Sad, Confused. Vanessa Kirby, way overdue. Thank you, guys, as always, for checking out what I'm doing over here. So much great reaction to last week's episode with James Gunn. Thank you, guys, for all the love. If you haven't checked it out by now, check it out because. That was an embarrassment of riches, a great convo, his third time on the podcast talking all things Superman. But now we move into Fantastic Four territory with Vanessa Kirby.

• 2:27Josh Horowitz?

  This is a fun one. Before we get to that, let's see, a couple of things. First up, very big, exciting news. We have a live Happy Sad Confused event to talk about. Los Angeles, come on out. Tickets are now available. August 15th, Ben Stiller and Seth Rogen together, you heard me right, two amazing actors, creators, directors. Yes, they currently both have maybe two of my favorite, yes, two of my favorite, if not my absolute favorites, Severance and the studio. So we'll be talking about their respective shows. They've collectively earned a gajillion Emmy nominations. And this is going to be a rare treat to see the two of them together. I don't know how this happened. I mean, I do know how it happened, but I'm

• 3:12Josh Horowitz?

  very excited that it that it has come together. August 15th, Fine Arts Theater, where we've hosted a bunch of events, 7pm. Get your tickets now. The link is in the show notes. These tickets are going to go fast. So grab them while you can and come out and say hi. As always, check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happysadconfused. That's where you get early access and discount codes to events like this, and all sorts of bonus materials. Check it out. Okay, just a couple of quick words on Vanessa and then I'll toss to the main event. Fantastic Four, of course, is the topic at hand. And this was really cool of Vanessa to do because we've been trying to make this happen for a while. Vanessa has been very kind enough to say she's

• 3:53Josh Horowitz?

  a fan of the podcast and had wanted to do it for a bit. And given that she's on this worldwide worldwide press tour, given that she was in the middle of a junket, I wasn't sure it was going to happen, but she agreed to do this literally during her lunch break. She's pregnant. She's got a lot going on. So I'm very appreciative that she made the time for this. She's a delight. She has had such an amazing career already, and it's really just kicking into another gear in recent years, thanks to You know, really great dramatic work and things like Pieces of Woman and The Sun, but also then working in the biggest pop culture, you know, properties around, whether it's Hobbs and Shaw or Mission Impossible or now Fantastic Four.

• 4:35Josh Horowitz?

  We also talk a little bit about her beginnings in television, of course, in The Crown. She was cast in that 10 years ago and to see her now front and center in this kind of context is really cool. And she's fantastic in the film. She is the heart and soul of this movie. Um, you're going to love her in it and we're going to see a lot more of her in Doomsday and many future Marvel projects, I'm sure. And you can hear in this conversation, by the way, she's so passionate about Sue and the things she does in the comics. I think the comic fans out there are going to be excited to hear Vanessa so passionate about this. So enjoy this chat. It's a little shorter than we usually do, but again, given all the context, I'll take what I can get. Uh, and I'm really, again, thankful she made the time.

• 5:20Josh Horowitz?

  So without any further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Sue Storm, the Invisible Woman herself, Vanessa Kirby. Vanessa Kirby, finally unhappy, sad, confused. Thank you so much for squeezing me in today. It's good to see you.

• 5:35Speaker 03

  Thank you for having me. I love this show, so I'm, I'm really excited myself.

• 5:39Josh Horowitz?

  Thank you. Congratulations on the film and one of the privileged few that have gotten a chance to see it. It's so fun. You're amazing in it and I want to give, I want to give folks some context because I am really appreciative because press tours don't get any bigger than this. And Vanessa is sacrificing much of her lunch break to catch up with me. So not, not to mention you're pregnant, so there's a lot going on in your world. So I really appreciate you.

• 6:01Speaker 03

  You're so welcome.

• 6:03Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. So first of all, before we get to Fantastic Four, I mean, it struck me, it's about 10 years into kind of like the big transition point in your career, almost to, to the date. Summer of 2015, I think you're cast in The Crown, which is a major shift. You've been doing theater, you've, you're succeeding. And then this transition starts into TV and film. Um, just reflect for a second for me. Does it feel like a minute, 10,000 years? What is that, when you hear that number, what does that do to you?

• 6:34Speaker 03

  Oh God, yeah. Um. Yeah, it really was a transition, but just, just even you saying that, it was, I, I mean, I was so lucky. It wasn't really easy. It was a very gentle transition in some ways, because when we started that show, we were a bunch of theatre actors, you know, we were filming in London. Netflix had only had a couple of shows, so we weren't even really sure if people would watch it or if they would like it. And so it was very protected. And so we just kind of innocently cracked on with the series and, you know, I seemed like maybe my mum and dad would watch it, but I didn't know if anyone else would. And so there wasn't this crazy pressure of, you know, something being wildly liked by people. So

• 7:18Speaker 03

  and we were filming the second season before the first had even come out. So I had that, I had that real protected space. And then we were just absolutely blown away when people happened to be watching it. We couldn't believe it. And so there was always been a gratitude, I think, that stayed with me because my transition was very much having been in the theatre and, you know, having three hundred people in the north of England come and watch the show. Um, and suddenly people were able to watch something I was in and it was like miraculous to me. And I, I still feel like that. I feel like this about this movie, I, I kind of

• 7:50Speaker 03

  maybe because I started in theatre in so many different small, small places. I never I've always, yeah, I just feel incredibly grateful if anyone goes to see it, really.

• 7:59Josh Horowitz?

  It's, it's striking to look at the, the body of work in the last ten years, because you've been able to kind of do this very deft balancing act, whether it's by luck or, or intent of doing, you know, things like Pieces of a Woman and The Sun, and also being at the centre of the biggest cultural events, whether it's Hobbs and Shaw Mission or now this. I mean, how much do you feel like you've been able to steer your own ship versus kind of surfing the wave of whatever the best material is coming to you?

• 8:28Speaker 03

  I've been asked quite a lot about the fact that I do like different genres or something and um like it's some something that's unusual. I think it's definitely less so now. I think actors go across all all different kind of mediums, but I think for me, it never felt like that because when you do like the playwrights, for example, when I started, you know, if you do an Arthur Miller, it's completely different to doing a checkoff. Like it's just a different genre completely. So

• 8:55Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 8:56Speaker 03

  it ever felt like you. The approach was always the same. You try and rehearse and do as much work as possible because you're absolutely terrified about walking out in front of an audience and it's always felt the approach has always felt exactly the same. So it doesn't, even though sometimes the scale of it can be scary. I don't know. I I still think you approach. Yeah, the approach is the same. So.

• 9:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, once the cameras are on, once everything is sorted out and all the bells and whistles, it's still hopefully you and another actor or two trying to to get at something truthful. That's the goal at least, right?

• 9:27Speaker 03

  Definitely, definitely. Yeah. And um and learning to not be afraid of the sort of the technicality or the machines around that took me quite a long time to.

• 9:36Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that's the trick, right? Fooling your brain into thinking there's nothing on the periphery and really like locking in.

• 9:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Like even for example, in this, you know, Sue going up against Galactus. There was maybe sixty crew members behind the camera and I was staring at kind of like um a metal pole that was really high. And I just was like, oh, I just kept trying to imagine what I was seeing, you know?

• 10:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 10:02Speaker 03

  And you just, yeah, it's endlessly tricking your mind.

• 10:05Josh Horowitz?

  So it it, you know, for those that know me, they know it was surprising to know that I grew up with this stuff. I I lived and breathed comics. What were what was your bag like growing up? Like, what were you into genre wise, franchise, a book series, films? Like, if I talk to like twelve year old Vanessa Kirby, what was your obsession?

• 10:24Speaker 03

  Um, I was obsessed with a combination of those. Well, my dad introduced me to a lot of cinema and so we would watch Midnight Express when I was super young and, you know, it exposed us to everything. Um, and then, and then all the classics, you know, I was like, all the, all the ones that came out during that era, we watched them on loop, on absolute loop. And I'm talking about things like Splash and, you know, all those early movies and, um.

• 10:52Josh Horowitz?

  Like what, what films can you quote backwards and forwards? If I put you to the test, like what's, what's just ingrained in you?

• 10:58Speaker 03

  I mean, if you're talking about twelve year old, I think Titanic.

• 11:02Speaker 03

  You know, I just remember going to my parents. Because I, I think, yeah, and I just, it just to scale it, we were discussing earlier, what movies would we like to see in IMAX? But do you remember when Jurassic Park came out? And like all those, oh my gosh, those Spielberg movies. That was my childhood.

• 11:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:20Speaker 03

  Well, and mixed with, you know, my dad introducing us to lots of like, you know, sometimes he would say, no, we're going to watch, you know, a, a, um, a classic and then you can watch a new one.

• 11:32Josh Horowitz?

  Well, tho- those, those things that you see almost a little too young are always the ones that really kind of like break your brain in the best possible way. I remember seeing like Jaws when I was like definitely too young and something I, I would expect seeing Midnight Express anytime before you're eighteen is probably going to make an impact on a young woman.

• 11:46Speaker 03

  I remember the sweat. Do you remember how amazing the sweat was at the airport for those guys? It's so visceral. I always remember that. But yeah, you're right, breaking your brain, it's so true. It really does feel like that, doesn't it? It's, it like goes in you and you just never forget it.

• 11:59Josh Horowitz?

  Totally, totally. We're all kind of locked into who we were at twelve and, and the pop culture that really seeped in then forever.

• 12:11Speaker 00

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited five G wireless data and hotspot designed to keep you connected. Powered by Verizon's five G network and no contract holding you back. Plans start at twenty five dollars a month or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save ten dollars on your first month when you use promo code hack. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 12:42Speaker 05

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade, hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 13:15Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so before this one comes around, you know, it is the coin of the realm, these superhero films, the last 15 years. And if rumors are to be believed, you've been up for at least a couple. There was Birds of Prey supposedly that was talked about. I don't know if the Catwoman thing was real or not with Matt Reeves, but have you been up for a bunch of superhero things prior to this?

• 13:35Speaker 03

  Um, not literally, no. I never auditioned for them. Catwoman, oh my god, what a dream. Is that the coolest ever? So, um, how, you know, couldn't that, she couldn't have been more perfect.

• 13:50Josh Horowitz?

  So that was more of a list thing, but not a like actual full on audition thing?

• 13:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it was always gonna be her. She's just the most incredible actor, most beautiful ever. Uh, yes, Birds of Prey. No, I was never, I never, I never met on that, but I was so happy that it was a female superhero anti-heroin movie coming around. But I, I always had a deep appreciation because I understand, you know, they're so globally loved. And it's almost like culturally, like The Odyssey or The Iliad, you know, these, these kind of like mythical, um, yeah, embodied kind of mythical, uh, what's the right word? They're the sort of symbols of, of...

• 14:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, they're the most basic primal stories. They are just our current way of telling these stories that recur throughout history, right?

• 14:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so when this one came around, I was so genuinely moved by the fact that this was a woman who was pregnant and, um, you know, was a new mother.

• 14:54Speaker 03

  And also has these superpowers. It helped me ground it in something that's, you know, to try and to try and understand what it would be like to have both those things happening at the same time. Um, was a challenge, but I was grateful for that because it rooted it in this kind of domesticity somehow, you know, in this family. This family, my home, which, which, which made it easy, I think.

• 15:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I want to get to some of the power of, without ruining the film for, for folks out there, the power of some of that imagery that caught me off guard. I realized I hadn't seen this in a superhero film before, but, but before we get to that, okay, so you, you get the role, which I believe was not even on an audition situation. They, they just offered to you. Is that correct? Like they meet with you and it's.

• 15:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, I met Matt Shakman. We had an awesome lunch and we talked a lot about the comics, particularly the early sixties ones, which was really a wonderful thing to be asked to go and do, to go back to the sixties and seventies and all the decades of, of this sort of like legacy of this form of entertainment for people that was kind of counterculture and super, uh, um, meaningful to people every week, you know, you just wait. There wasn't a lot of TV, obviously. And so you, this would be the, the, the thing you'd, you'd most, be most excited about. And so I felt very, um, touched by that. And then Matt and so we had a really deep discussion about that. And then I met Kevin and Lou at Marvel. Um,

• 16:12Speaker 03

  and then the next day they asked me to do it. So no, there was no, there was no audition, which sounds scary because then you go, oh gosh, the first day when you.

• 16:19Josh Horowitz?

  Right. You want to kind of prove to yourself in a way.

• 16:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:24Josh Horowitz?

  So, so was there, look, there are obvious benefits to this. Marvel knows what they're doing. This is an iconic character, but it's also a commitment. This is not one and done. This is going to be potentially the next 10 years beyond of your life off and on. So that has to be something that you, whether you wrestle with it or you contemplate. I mean, is there a, I don't know. Is there a little trepidation when you're like, I'm really kind of making a commitment to my career and life for the next 10 plus years?

• 16:50Speaker 03

  With this, I actually didn't have that, and I'm surprised to say that. I think it was because I really liked her so much and because I'd read so many of the comics and she goes through so many different iterations, you know, she becomes Malice, this really dark version of herself for quite a long time. And then she renames herself Invisible Woman, having been called Invisible Girl, and she goes off with Psycho Man and she's named, I mean, this, like, her history is incredible. So that was, I felt like, oh, there's so much there to, to even psychologically. I mean, she has a stillborn and people don't know that, you know, like, she's gone through a lot, but most importantly, I knew I wouldn't be out without these three actors.

• 17:28Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 17:29Speaker 03

  And these three actors have genuinely become family and I admired them so much and I knew that we're a four and the four in the comics are never separated. So I assumed that we'd be together and that really helped because then you're not a lone ranger, kind of, you know, going into new daunting environments. We've always kind of got each other and we've had that exactly with Avengers just now, just all being together, you know, a group.

• 17:51Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that, that being said, look, and we can say this now, maybe the pressure's off a little bit because you know, the movie delivers, you're hearing this from people. And yes, it is very much an ensemble and it is about the family. When you see the film, when folks see the film, this is Sue's film. Like, I mean, yes, it's the family, but this is, Sue is like the emotional heart. It really is like the center of the film, at least from, you, maybe you can't say that, but I can say that watching it as a viewer. I mean, did it, when you eventually get to see the script, were you surprised, heartened about like, oh, wow, this is really like a mother's story in a way?

• 18:26Speaker 03

  I think that's Matt Shakman, honestly. I think he has this incredible daughter called Maisie, who's been an inspiration to all of us. She's the biggest personality and the most formidable female presence. And I think, you know, he made a decision really early on in our first meeting. He said, I don't think I'm gonna, I'm not choosing to do this as an origin story where we learn how they got their powers. I want this to be, they really know what their powers are and they're well into their run. Sue's established this future foundation and I want the movie to open with them finding out they're gonna have a baby. And most importantly, that that's

• 19:01Speaker 03

  That's all the things that a new parent feels, you know, daunted, anxious, scared, ecstatic, and have these two parents basically live through the course of this movie with um coming to terms with the fact that they're becoming parents and also because they feel like they're different, they're not who they were, and therefore we have a child together and will we pass on the things that we don't like about ourselves or that what are we going to pass on to our child? And that inherently was like a very human existential question. And so I think naturally Matt was gravitating towards this parenthood and this fatherhood and this mother's story. And um I remember standing on our very first day of filming with this fake pregnancy bump and couldn't believe it. I just thought, oh, my God, how

• 19:45Speaker 03

  am I going to be a superhero like this? But, you know, she really taught me that um ah the the the going through the journey of this movie for me as a lived experience quite literally taught me that it's possible.

• 20:00Josh Horowitz?

  What's my?

• 20:00Speaker 03

  But yeah, the synergy between, you know, the metaphor of superhero is more like, oh, my gosh, I've looked around at all my girlfriends that have done it. And, you know, it's a it's an unbelievably powerful sacred thing.

• 20:13Josh Horowitz?

  Well, and I was saying about like the imagery of the film that I really struck me. I mean, I don't think it reveals anything to say. Like, one of the powerful moments for me is like you kind of have like the big superhero, like hero speech, and you're holding a baby. And I don't think I've ever seen that in a film. Did that strike you in that moment of shooting that scene that like, this is new territory?

• 20:34Speaker 03

  It did. And also the babies, we had maybe because it was a night shoot, the babies cried on the same line every time. I was like, maybe it's my delivery. We've got to try and adjust it.

• 20:43Josh Horowitz?

  Give me the next baby. Swap in the next one.

• 20:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, we had to swap a lot, but they became really special to us because they, you know, we knew them all really, really well. And they grew up with us. Ada, who plays Franklin, you know, she was with us from the start. And she changed personality in the six months that we were shooting. It was just amazing to watch. But um but yes, definitely. And I think also, I remember us saying at the beginning, you know, A lot of these kind of um these stories, you know, of these superheroes, they go up against something really difficult, they have to face some massive threats and see if they can overcome it and fall down and try and get back up and try and, you know, protect the something about, you know, what we about humanity. And we knew if there was a baby

• 21:26Speaker 03

  at the center of this, it would be very hard to not care, because how could you not? And so we got to put our focus on that a lot. And that really helped so much because you weren't talking ideologically, you're talking very, very practically and very vulnerably about this little newborn who represents, you know, pure human consciousness in a way.

• 21:47Josh Horowitz?

  No, totally. It's much, yeah, much easier for an audience to connect when it's like, we have to get that cube, we have to solve this thing as opposed to like, we have, we have to protect our child. Like, this is the most relatable of all things.

• 21:59Speaker 03

  Exactly, exactly. So even if we did bad acting, we were like, the baby will, will pull us.

• 22:03Josh Horowitz?

  Maybe it will save us.

• 22:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And Michael's score.

• 22:06Josh Horowitz?

  Of course.

• 22:07Speaker 03

  The baby in the score and Matt's vision.

• 22:10Josh Horowitz?

  Kills it.

• 22:18Speaker 00

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand with unlimited five G wireless data and hotspot designed to keep you connected powered by Verizon's five G network and no contract holding you back. Plans start at twenty five dollars a month or get the premium visible plus pro plan and save ten dollars on your first month when you use promo code hack. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 22:48Speaker 05

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body with a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 23:20Josh Horowitz?

  I have a very stupid but real question. I mean, so like, you know, as the nature of being a superhero, you kind of have to do like the hand movements thing, right? You have to sell that. Is there a discussion of like, oh, wait, I we need to sell Sue's hand movements in a different way than Scarlet Witch. I need a different special hand movement than Lizzie.

• 23:40Speaker 03

  Exactly, Josh. Oh, my gosh, you're so perspect you're so perceptive. I had that conversation daily because what she does is incredible and it's so definitive. And I also wanted to understand the powers at a very, a very fundamental level. Otherwise, I think I would feel a bit silly. You know what I mean? I knew I would feel silly kind of waving my hands around without really understanding what it feels like to do it. But then you go, well, how how do I how do I start to imagine what it feels like to do it? And so I had to understand it on a scientific level. So I was looking at, I was imagining that you see creating force fields is essentially like moving frequency or energy, right? And if you think about radio waves or microwaves,

• 24:25Speaker 03

  or, you know, our phone waves that connect a call to Australia from England, it's not what the connection is invisible, but it's still moving through space, if that makes sense. And we can't see them with our retinas, but it's there. And so I imagined, okay, so you can just move things. She can move light in a way that we can't, we can't, we can't, or we can't perceive in our human, you know, six cents, five senses. She almost had a set seventh sense is what I imagined. And so then we started talking about how in the comic, she does use her hands a lot. So I can't not use my hands because for a second, I was like, maybe I just shouldn't just so it's not too similar to anybody. Because even Doctor Strange, you know, uses the hands like a

• 25:06Speaker 03

  lot of the superheroes do. So then I thought, okay, well, seeing as she's using her, her actual molecules, like her actual cells and her, her own atoms to move a different kind of frequency, wouldn't it come from her core rather than just her hands? And then I said, well, look, why don't we study the chakras and imagine that it's a whole energetic force field that's coming out of her? And then she uses her hands to conduct that energy. So I spoke to VFX and Matt and I spoke for ages and Jenny, the movement director was wonderful. We just spent a long time trying to work out bodily movements. And sometimes they got a bit too sensual. So we had to pull back a bit.

• 25:46Speaker 03

  Because, you know, but she is, she is like a little bit sensual because she is to me in the comics. But it was really fun, um, developing it, you know, and then Matt showed all these images of kind of prisms of light and how light refracts and stuff. So it wasn't just like a whooshing sort of, you know, the Harry Potter wand. It wasn't like that. We wanted to create kind of as if she was moving light, um, yeah, through space.

• 26:10Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it is a reminder of like, why they get the best actors in the business for this because like, again, towards the end, the kind of stuff you have to do with just your body and like essentially grunting, like making life, you don't have, you don't even have dialogue to lean on in this kind of like these dramatic moments. And it takes a really good actor to sell that because if it could look really silly in the wrong hands.

• 26:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. And sometimes you feel silly too, because I didn't, in the scene where I think you're talking about where she's, you know, going at her full capacity.

• 26:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:38Speaker 03

  I had to push against stuff and we tried, I said, okay, can I, can I push against something so that it doesn't look like I'm just pretending? And how can we make this look really real and almost like the biggest effort of her entire life ever? As it would have to be. Um, but then in the end I had to do it just, just on my own. And so there was sort of, you know, hundreds of crew members that are all my friends and stuff, all standing around where I'm kind of, yeah, grunting on the floor and trying to imagine I'm making this effort that's kind of, you know, is the, is the most difficult thing a human being could do. And yeah, you do, you do. There were moments, then you'd just be like, I'll just keep going.

• 27:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So I, I mean, I love what you said about earlier. You clearly fell in love with this character and the lore and the sixty plus years of history. Um, have you put in your two cents about like, oh, it would be great to explore this aspect of the character? I know it's beyond your pay grade, but like selfishly as an actor, what do you want to play of Sue if you got to keep going?

• 27:31Speaker 03

  Oh, it's malice. Definitely. Definitely malice. I just love that that's a part of her. It just makes me so happy. It makes me so happy because she is, I, I, I try to understand, right?

• 27:45Speaker 03

  They all came back from this accident and they all decided to do different things with their powers as a family, right? And Reed goes heavily into massive scientific and technological advancement. You know, I think he feels guilty for what happened and he's trying to improve the world in that way. And Sue creates this Future Foundation, which literally she goes around to every country leader, this sort of is mentioned at the beginning of the movie, and she gets them to disarm and to get rid of all their armies. And I thought, oh, my gosh, that is the hardest thing that anyone could try and persuade our current world to do. And so I thought she must have a really, such a high emotional intelligence to be able to do that.

• 28:29Speaker 03

  And she's made a choice, right? She, there was one line, I don't think it's in the film, but she says, there was one line at one point, she says to Mama, and you know, if you're not careful, I could give you an aneurysm in a second. And that was so useful for me. That was a real touchstone because it's true. She could put a force field and there's lots of images in the comics of her doing it to Doom and her doing it to all these enemies, where she threatens to do it. Because she can, but she chooses not to. And it's someone that chooses not to, but still could. And so I love this, I love, always loved Alice because it's almost like a part of her that needs to come out to be expressed, that while she is committed to being altruistic and being a leader and doing good in the world, she also has a shadow side, like we all do, which has to come out in order for her then, in the comics, to become Invisible Woman.

• 29:13Speaker 03

  She renames herself from Invisible Girl, you know, so she becomes a woman by going through a dark time. And that always felt really, I loved that journey. I thought it felt very, very true.

• 29:27Josh Horowitz?

  So you, you mentioned Doom. Have you shot most of your Doomsday stuff? Have they, have they been kind enough to like shoot you out to let you live the rest of your life? Or are you saying what ways to go?

• 29:36Speaker 03

  No, no, we're going back, we're going back to do more. And I'm loving it, absolutely loving it. It's been a complete privilege. And they've been amazing, you know, and as you know, I'm, I'm pregnant and they have been. It's been the coolest thing to be shooting an Avengers movie while pregnant and they haven't. They've been utterly amazing, the Russos and Kevin and the whole team. It's been very cool to do that.

• 29:56Josh Horowitz?

  Scarlet. So all of these, look, all these films, any film for that matter, requires a lot of trust. But especially these like Avengers movies, which we know the nature of them, right? Like, I doubt you've read an entire script from beginning to end. It's just, it's a fluid exercise and somehow the Russos know how to piece it all together. Has it been kind of an unusual thing as an actor to kind of like? Put your trust in them and know that these bits are going to add up to something really cool in the end?

• 30:22Speaker 03

  It's been so easy to trust them because they so know the world better than anything. And it's a very relaxing thing to come into something where someone really knows what their process, you know, is. And they describe it like they're, they're making a recipe, right? There, there, there's a recipe of different ingredients. And it's unbelievable that these Avengers movies work in such a beautiful way. You look at Infinity War and you've got all these different energies, but somehow they all fuse together. And I remember them saying the first one, they had no idea if any of them would go together and if it would, you know, and it just worked. So it's quite exciting to be part of something you go, okay, this is my flavor. I don't know that it's, it's in their hands to work out what flavors go with what and how and where. And that's kind of, there's a surrender in that, you know what I mean?

• 31:07Speaker 03

  You don't have to control anything. And that's been really, really, I love there.

• 31:12Josh Horowitz?

  And, and getting to see Downey do his thing, has that been a joy and a privilege? I mean, this guy.

• 31:17Speaker 03

  Beyond, beyond. He's the most incredible human being, soulful, deep, kind. He's been an amazing leader to us, considering we're the newbies, you know? And a lot of the others have known this, this world for a really long time. And he's been, yeah, a phenomenal leader and also just, he's just doing the most amazing work.

• 31:40Josh Horowitz?

  Can't wait, can't wait. So, so by now, like, look, I mean, obviously the film hasn't been seen by much of the world, but like, you were casting this a while back, a year ago or so, you sort of had the coming out party at Comic Con. So you encounter folks in the world, like, are you able to now clock like the Crown fans versus the Marvel fans? I mean, you must get a new, you have a new fan base, a new excitement from folks on the street, I would expect.

• 32:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know what you mean, Josh. It, it is, there are, it's funny, there are definitely different. Spaces and sometimes they surprise you and you don't expect, oh my gosh, that's the thing that you like. But they, but sometimes there's overlap. So I'm really interested. I haven't, obviously, I'm so new to the MCU, so I'm really interested to. But I also understand. You know, watching them all. And going back and rewatching them all together. And you see something like Scarlett's journey from the beginning. And what she did with that character to her death. It's you, you've grown up with those, that, that, that character and her journey and her story and all the iterations and stuff. So there's something so really special about that, this, which the comics did. You know, you got to view.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  You got to watch, um, read um, all these different characters. Through different illustrators and different storytellers and stuff, and each of them brought a different flavor. And so we just feel like we're just joining one path for that and kind of adding to that, just as a, as an extension of. So yeah, I'm really, I'm really excited to meet more of them, honestly, because I care as much as they do now. I'm such a big fan of Marvel.

• 33:10Josh Horowitz?

  No, it's clear, it's clear, it's palpable. It's exciting to hear you excited, excited about this universe. I just want more Crown folks. I want my beloved Claire Foy in Marvel now.

• 33:19Speaker 03

  Oh my god, she would just dominate.

• 33:22Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, she kills it in everything. She's one of my favorites.

• 33:24Speaker 03

  She, I would sit there on set in these scenes with her and I'd be stunned. And I think, I don't know how the hell I'm going to be even present, like participate with you in this scene, because how would I, you're just so magnificent. She was still one of the best actors I've ever worked with.

• 33:43Josh Horowitz?

  Well, she, she's become a spirit animal, a five-timer on Happy Second to You. This is only your first time, but you're gonna catch up. We're gonna get you on a bunch more, okay?

• 33:50Speaker 03

  That's what I mean. I can't believe it's my first time.

• 33:52Josh Horowitz?

  Way overdue. Um, quickly, I'll let you go in a couple, but um, I said not to see you in Mission. I assume that had to do with, is that, is that about Fantastic Four? Just like there's not enough time to like make it all work or?

• 34:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, we were working six days a week. Everyone was working so hard. I remember looking at Matt Shakman at one point, just being like, oh my gosh, that, that man, I keep saying, oh my gosh, and I don't know why. Something's been affected with it today. I usually swear, but maybe that's why I'm not supposed to swear. But um, uh, yes, um, what was I saying?

• 34:23Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, uh, uh, Mission, but you were so six days a week, you were, yeah, yeah.

• 34:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And I was, we were, we, we had so much to shoot. And Matt was just unbelievable in his, I've never worked with someone who's worked that as hard as he does. And he would always respond if I said, I'm, I'm the scene I'm confused about. Could we have a zoom? And even at Sunday, Sunday night at 11 o'clock, he would be, so we were working around the clock on this. Um, it was completely immersive and we had to finish by a certain deadline because it'd been pushed back because of the strikes.

• 34:54Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:55Speaker 03

  So, um, we had to get it done so that it could be released in July and it was a miracle. They, they've all, uh, everyone's come together at Marvel to make it happen because we finished in December and it's coming out in July. I think it's unheard of really.

• 35:07Josh Horowitz?

  And going forward, obviously you're gonna have some, some family time, hopefully for a bit, some Marvel time. Uh, are you gonna be working with Sebastian Stan? Is this, is Rune something that you want to make happen?

• 35:17Speaker 03

  Yes, definitely. He's a really old friend. We worked together years ago and, um, he's one of my great, great friends and I've always wanted to work with him again. We found this. We want to find many things together. And, um, yeah, that's something that we're working really hard on now. I'm realizing.

• 35:31Josh Horowitz?

  It's so good to see that guy getting his due. I mean, he's kind of like been doing the work.

• 35:35Speaker 03

  Trump, it was insane.

• 35:37Josh Horowitz?

  Insane.

• 35:37Speaker 03

  You know, I was texting, being like, I'm telling everyone about it nonstop. He's, yeah.

• 35:42Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, we're gonna end with the happy second few profoundly random questions. Vanessa, you ready for this? Yeah. Okay. Is it quick? Yeah, relative. You can go in if you want, but dogs or cats?

• 35:54Speaker 03

  Oh God, that's always been a tie for me because I've always had both.

• 35:57Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 35:59Speaker 03

  I would say right now in this moment, maybe cats, because just because it's easier. They're slightly easier, I think, um, with all the.

• 36:04Josh Horowitz?

  You can leave them to their own devices. They got, they got.

• 36:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're super independent. Yeah.

• 36:08Josh Horowitz?

  What do you collect, if anything?

• 36:11Speaker 03

  Matcha.

• 36:13Josh Horowitz?

  What? What is that? Oh, matcha, matcha tea.

• 36:15Speaker 03

  Oh, you guys.

• 36:16Josh Horowitz?

  Matcha. Yeah, I'm sorry. My horrible. Yes.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  I know. My accent code gets me to practice that. Yeah, there's like, like fusion of in the accent. We had a slight, kind of be just slightly transatlantic. So there was always debates whether it should be something like macho or matcha.

• 36:31Josh Horowitz?

  Got it. Favorite video game of all time? Have you ever played a game at length?

• 36:35Speaker 03

  Hmm, The Sims.

• 36:36Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, okay. Cool.

• 36:38Speaker 03

  I'm just a huge Sims fan. So sad.

• 36:41Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, this is the Dakota Johnson memorial question. She asked me this once. Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 36:49Speaker 03

  One being Bart.

• 36:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 36:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, because then you can talk about it. And like, sure.

• 36:55Josh Horowitz?

  This is what's happening back there, just so you know.

• 36:57Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, the best thing is if it's something difficult, you've got to talk about it.

• 37:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah. Um, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 37:05Speaker 03

  Oh, right now? Um, Glastonbury Festival, which is my house on a.

• 37:10Josh Horowitz?

  Nice. Uh, last actor you were mistaken for?

• 37:15Speaker 03

  Oh, uh, Jodie Comer.

• 37:18Josh Horowitz?

  Another one of my faves. That's good company.

• 37:20Speaker 03

  I mean, heaven, I was thrilled. I went along with it for a while.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  You were so good in your one woman show. I went, oh, my God, thank you so much.

• 37:29Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, it's a great show, but to be frank, um, what's the worst note a director has ever given you?

• 37:34Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 37:37Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't believe anything you're doing. That was savage. That was one of my favorite TV job.

• 37:44Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, last, last 30 seconds. Actor who always makes you happy?

• 37:50Speaker 03

  Evan, Joe and Pedro.

• 37:52Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Movie that makes you sad?

• 37:55Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 38:00Speaker 03

  What did I last cry at?

• 38:02Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have a go to?

• 38:03Speaker 03

  I mean, like the most, you mean the saddest one of all would be Shins or something.

• 38:07Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, that's pretty.

• 38:08Speaker 03

  Or Titanic when you were.

• 38:10Josh Horowitz?

  Titanic, there you go.

• 38:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, Jack dying. I don't think anyone's ever over that.

• 38:14Josh Horowitz?

  And a food that makes you confused? You don't get it. Why do people eat?

• 38:18Speaker 03

  I don't like scallops and I don't like, I don't massively like oysters, actually, because no one, you don't even chew it and taste it. You just neck it back. Do you know what I mean?

• 38:30Josh Horowitz?

  Are you real?

• 38:31Speaker 03

  Why don't you just at least like taste the fishiness and enjoy or whatever? But no, so it's never been my jam, those.

• 38:37Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, we'll dive into that deeper next time. Vanessa, you're the best for sneaking this in. I appreciate you. Have a great rest of the press tour and hopefully next time in person.

• 38:45Speaker 03

  Thank you, Josh. And it's, you know, I'm doing a solo interview. I've always been with the boys.

• 38:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you usually can just like, over to you, Pedro. No?

• 38:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, always. But it's been so nice meeting you. Thank you so much for having me, Josh. And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 39:17Speaker 06

  You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue. You're not just watching true crime, you're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch. Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers. Did the spouse do it? Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July? Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary? We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV. So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that

• 39:59Speaker 06

  have kept you up all night. It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts, and let's solve this thing together.