857 Jim Gaffigan: Life Lessons From a Comedy Genius

PURSUE CREATIVE FULFILLMENT. You might think that successful people have magic powers. A unique formula to be rich and famous. A formula you didn’t receive, and that’s what’s holding you back. But, is that the reality? Once you realize the unique formula is hard work, dedication and perseverance you realize that you’ve had the recipe all along. Stop waiting for someone or something to bring you happiness in life. Instead, focus on the daily process that will turn your dreams into a reality. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about taking the long road and dedicating yourself to a dream with comedian and actor: Jim Gaffigan. Jeff Gaffigan is a successful stand-up comedian, actor, writer, and producer. Jeff has been able to carve out a successful career in comedy while being a “clean comic” who rarely uses profanity in his routines. He persevered through a road of challenges and failures, and now he’s at the top of his game. He conquered his fears and is living his dream. So, get ready to learn how to pursue your dreams on Episode 857. Some Questions I Ask: How did you get into comedy? (9:00) What have you learned in 30 years of comedy? (13:25) What have you learned about people? (15:47) Who was more inspirational in your life, mom or dad? (23:20) Do you think that 20-year-old Jimmy would believe where you are now? (35:00) How do you balance work and family? (38:45) In This Episode You Will Learn: How to get over your fear of public speaking (9:10) How to deal with frustration in your career (19:50) How Jim found that failure is part of the process (37:30) How to be empowered by family challenges (48:29) How Jim gets the crowd back on his side when he feels he’s lost them (51:15) Why you need to find your voice (56:30) If you enjoyed this episode, check out the video, show notes, and more at http://wwwlewishowes.com/857 and follow at instagram.com/lewishowes. Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 857 with the comedy genius Jim Gaffigan. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Langston Hughes said, "Like a welcome summer rain, humor may suddenly cleanse and cool the earth, the air, and you." Welcome to this special episode with Jim Gaffigan. I am so excited about this. And I want to take a moment to say thank you. Thank you for showing up today. Thank you for getting out of yourself and saying hi to your neighbor. Thank you for encouraging your friends and family to be better, to grow. Thank you for having compassion for other people. Thank you for not comparing yourself to too many people today. Thank you for showing up and becoming a better version of yourself. There are so many people in the world that complain, that make excuses, that are negative,

• 1:18Lewis Howes?

  that are constantly aggressive about what they lack, instead of focusing on what they have and what they're grateful for. And so many of you are constantly posting on social media, positive things about your life, and I see it. I watch it. When you tag me and you talk about the podcast, I see what you're up to, and you inspire me. So thank you for all that you do today, to just be a little bit better than yesterday, to have a little bit more care for others than yesterday, to forgive yourself a little more, and to have a little bit more peace in your heart, because that's really what the world needs more of, is peace and love in our heart, so we can give it away even more to other people.

• 2:03Lewis Howes?

  I'm so excited about our guest. Had an incredible time sitting down with this man. I wish I had more time because... He has an amazing heart and if you don't know who Jim Gaffigan is, then you must not have Netflix or Amazon or, or social media because he's everywhere. He is a Grammy nominated comedian, actor, writer, producer, two-time New York Times bestselling author, top touring performer and multi-platinum selling father of five. He is known around the world for his unique brand of humor which largely resolves around fatherhood and his observations on life. Jim has had several successful comedy specials, including Mr. Universe, Obsessed

• 2:44Lewis Howes?

  and Cinco, all three which received Grammy nominations. He co-created and starred in the TV series based on his life called The Jim Gaffigan Show. And this year, Jim was named number three on Forbes's list of the highest earning stand-up comedians in 2019. His new stand-up special, Quality Time, is now streaming on Amazon Prime and tickets are on sale for his new comedy tour, Secrets and Pies. I highly recommend you go get a ticket and check both of those out. And in this interview, we talk about how Jim used improv to overcome his fear of public speaking. We both talked about our fears of public speaking and he dives in deep on how he overcame it. The importance of pursuing work for the

• 3:28Lewis Howes?

  right reasons and not just for your ego, how that will destroy your work. How Jim strategized with the distribution of his latest special to expand his audience. And he took a risk. How watching his children face their fears and failures has fueled his comedy. And the powerful lessons he learned about humanity from his wife falling ill. I am so excited about this episode. Make sure to share it with your friends, LewisHowes.com/857. Text one friend right now and let them know that you're listening and have them listen along with you. And without further ado, let's dive into this episode with the one, the only, the comedy genius, Jim Gaffigan.

• 4:16Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back to the School of Greatness, everyone. We've got Jim Gaffigan in the house. My man.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me.

• 4:20Lewis Howes?

  Fellow Midwest guy.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 4:22Lewis Howes?

  Fellow D3 All-Star football player.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  I wasn't an All-Star, but thank you.

• 4:26Lewis Howes?

  All-Star center.

• 4:28Speaker 02

  I was a center.

• 4:29Lewis Howes?

  Walked out of Purdue. Did you ever play at Purdue?

• 4:32Speaker 02

  No, no. I didn't, you know, it was, it was one of those things where I applied to Georgetown. That was my dream in high school was to go to Georgetown.

• 4:44Lewis Howes?

  And where was it? Where's Georgetown?

• 4:45Speaker 02

  In DC.

• 4:46Lewis Howes?

  You mean Georgetown in DC, gotcha.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  And...

• 4:47Lewis Howes?

  That was D3 then?

• 4:48Speaker 02

  It was D3. It was my dream to go there. My brother went there. I didn't get in. Like, my dreams were crushed. And so, and Purdue's a great school. And I got in there and, you know, I, I don't even know if I had plans to play football at Purdue. I think it was kind of like, my dad was like, "Hey, there's an opportunity for you to walk on." Like, I think we got a letter from the coach, like, he'd love for you to walk on. And I'm like...

• 5:15Lewis Howes?

  Be like a practice dummy.

• 5:16Speaker 02

  Now I have to, now I have to walk on to a Big Ten school when I probably, you know, I probably weighed 190.

• 5:24Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 5:25Lewis Howes?

  So you weren't the strapping 240 that you are now?

• 5:28Speaker 02

  I wish I was 240. Yeah, no, I was, I was a different man, you know, I was in different shape.

• 5:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, 190.

• 5:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was probably 190.

• 5:39Lewis Howes?

  Did you play center at Purdue? Practice squad or...?

• 5:41Speaker 02

  No, I just, I walked on. I, I did it for, you know, I don't know, five weeks. And I was like, "This is insane." And there was, I remember there was a meeting and the guy who was the fitness guy was like, he actually goes, "I don't think that you're gonna be able to gain weight with muscle to play in the Big Ten." And I was like, "I didn't want to do this anyway, so..." But it was a great experience. You know, it's fun to, to terrify yourself by doing stuff like that.

• 6:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  And that's not to say I'm not a coward. I am a coward. But every now and then, you gotta challenge yourself.

• 6:17Lewis Howes?

  Do you think you would be where you are in your comedy career without walking on at Purdue? And actually taking that fear and challenge and saying, "I'm gonna do this thing," even though it's the, it doesn't make any sense? I'm not big enough, I'm not fast enough, I can't put on the muscle, I'm not gonna play, but I'm gonna do this anyways.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, you know, I wish, I mean, I'm, I wish I knew what was the things that contributed. I think also, I was raised to kind of, you know, I was the part of this family that had been in the US for a while, but my dad was the first one to go to college and I was raised to seek security, to wear a tie and get a job where you can't get laid off and stuff like that. So, I think probably in my twenties, I mean, I graduated, I got a finance job, I was miserable. So that was one step, but then, you know, in my early twenties, my mother died and I

• 7:11Speaker 02

  was like, all bets off, like, the whole charade of life kind of being fair is, is not true. You know what I mean? And I know compared to other people's stories, that's not that dramatic, but for me, like, I was like, well, if this, you know, she's fifty and she, she's gonna die, I have to figure out what I wanna do now.

• 7:36Lewis Howes?

  Wow, how old were you then?

• 7:37Speaker 02

  I was probably twenty-two.

• 7:39Lewis Howes?

  Okay, and dad's still around?

• 7:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. How was that for you, for that transition? Did you say, I'm going right into the thing, the comedy right now? Did you know you wanted to get into that, or was it just?

• 7:49Speaker 02

  I, I had a huge fear of public speaking.

• 7:52Lewis Howes?

  Me too.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  So I-

• 7:53Lewis Howes?

  The worst.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Isn't that ironic, right?

• 7:55Lewis Howes?

  The worst.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I used to turn beet red.

• 7:58Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  And I had found a job in New York, working in advertising, and I would have these ideas, but I would turn red and then someone was like, you gotta, you know, you gotta get more comfortable speaking in a group. And it's not like I was in front of a, a large group, I was just-

• 8:16Lewis Howes?

  Ten people.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  Ten people.

• 8:17Lewis Howes?

  In a boardroom.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  And I would just kind of hyperventilate and so- I took these improv classes and then someone was in there. A friend of mine kinda dared me to do this stand-up seminar cuz I would not just go and do stand-up. I needed to like, someone to be like, hold my hand and go, here, you, you are funny. Let's do this joke. So I did kind of a thing like that and then.

• 8:45Lewis Howes?

  Like a workshop.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  It was like a workshop.

• 8:47Lewis Howes?

  Three day week.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  It was like, yeah, once every, one, one day for, uh, one day a week for a month. And then you did a set at the end. And this is in the nineties and, uh, performed at the end and just loved it. Like something clicked. But I, you know, even when I was in college, the night before I graduated, I said to a friend of mine. I told her, I was like, you know, I just wanna be an actor and a comedian, but everyone wants to do that. And she was like, no, not everyone wants to do that. And I thought she was kind of lying. I was like, well, I told, I told the one person my truth. And it ends up being the person that doesn't wanna be an actor and a comedian. So.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  It was a long process to, and I am grateful to, you know, that I found my passion. Or my passions, I should say.

• 9:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I, when I was, um, I finished playing professional football, arena football, which is really, getting paid three hundred bucks a week is not professional, but I was getting paid to play what I loved, right?

• 9:48Speaker 02

  That's impressive.

• 9:49Lewis Howes?

  Maybe like you in the first year of like, hey, if I got thirty bucks at the door, it was worth it.

• 9:53Speaker 02

  If that, yeah.

• 9:54Lewis Howes?

  Thirty bucks at the door. And I remember when I was done, I had no clue what I was gonna do next after my dream was over of playing football. And I met a guy who said, who was a public speaker and he would travel and do college tours and get paid like ten grand a pop. I was like, how do you get paid to speak? I can't even speak in front of a group of five or ten without getting nervous, like you said. He said, you gotta join this thing called Toastmasters.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I remember I looked into it.

• 10:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, which is kind of like, I don't know, improv for public speaking.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:23Lewis Howes?

  And so I did that every single week for a year. And I was horrible in the beginning, but at the end, I felt like I finally had that confidence just by doing the thing I was afraid of.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:35Lewis Howes?

  Now, did you jump in right after that into touring and?

• 10:38Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 10:39Lewis Howes?

  The local, you know?

• 10:41Speaker 02

  There was, uh, you know, it was a good. Six or seven years of just eating [BLEEP]. Just, my family thought I was crazy. You know, we live in a day and age where stand-up seems to be everywhere. It's on streaming, audio and visual platforms and, uh, you know, there's satellite radio and YouTube and Comedy Central, but back then it was, stand-up had almost shifted into this kind of, um, bad joke on The Simpsons.

• 11:12Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  And so it was not some, like, there was this mini boom, I think in the late eighties, and then it shrunk. And so there were a lot of comedians and not a lot of places to do it in front of an audience, so.

• 11:25Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was hard to, and they didn't, they didn't need another white guy. You know what I mean? And there were comedians that had started a couple of years before me, like Dave Attell and Louis CK, that were great. So like, they didn't need it. The world doesn't need any comedians. You really have to like, have the audacity to just go, "I'm gonna do this." And for me, it was, I think it was, you know, I've never done heroin, but I imagine it's like, you're chasing that high.

• 11:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  That first time was pretty empowering. And, um, I loved it, you know?

• 12:02Lewis Howes?

  What do you think you've learned the most about yourself in thirty years of comedy? Biggest lesson you've learned about who you are?

• 12:09Speaker 02

  Uh, there's been so many. I mean, stand-up is a conversation with the audience and, I mean, it's not a fair conversation. One side has a microphone and the other side is allowed to laugh or be quiet, right? I think that, I mean, I've learned so much, you know, it's, and some of it's stuff you don't wanna learn, you know, like-

• 12:31Lewis Howes?

  Like what?

• 12:32Speaker 02

  Well, I think even when I was in the, you know, growing up in the Midwest, I thought, uh, you know, I grew up in a small town in Indiana and I would look around with my friends, I'd be like, "There was a mistake, we're not supposed to be here." But when I finally got to the East Coast and started doing stand-up, everyone's like, "You're Midwestern." And I was like, "Wait a minute, but I just left there because I didn't fit in there." There's nothing normal about going on stage and making strangers laugh. But and there's innumerable things I've learned. I've learned that I'm vulnerable. I've learned that uh that, you know, stand-up has allowed me to articulate some anger, probably in a palatable way.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  I've learned that um how I come across. I've learned that my upbringing was relatively sheltered. You know, that, you know, there are socioeconomic differences beyond the fact that I grew up kind of in a rural suburban environment. I've learned humility, maybe.

• 13:35Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 13:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that, you know, and that's not to say that I don't have to learn it over and over again. But there's no guarantees and so. But that's also probably what I like about it, right? I think I like the risk and the conversation and keeping that conversation interesting. I don't know.

• 13:54Lewis Howes?

  What's the thing you've learned about people in 30 years of doing stand-up?

• 13:59Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. I think I've learned that. Here's what I would say, all right? I mean, I, this is what, this is my personal philosophy.

• 14:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:09Speaker 02

  Okay. I believe that you can either. I think human beings are very easily manipulated. And I think that you can either, you can either lead them to light or darkness. We all, you know, like the most emotionally evolved person loves blood and sex. And the thing is, is that, you know, if you bring light to them, they will respond with light. But if you bring darkness, you know, because we're animals. Do you know what I mean? It's like if there is carnage, they'll want more carnage.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  And so I think probably like. Seven years in, I learned that if you treat people like they are intelligent, sensitive people, that maybe they'll respond in kind. It's weird, you know, it's like you see movies or TV shows that are graphic and dark, and it reminds us that this is a brutal existence. And then with comedy, you can also bring observations and self-awareness in a way that where we can laugh at ourselves. Yeah. And I knew that I didn't want to do comedy at the expense of someone else,

• 15:38Speaker 02

  because I feel like, you know, maybe as a young awkward pale kid, I didn't want to subject that to someone else. Yeah. But, and again, it's not perfect. I'm always learning, but. You haven't figured it out yet? I haven't figured it out. Well, not consistently, right? Moments, maybe. You know, it's like having kids, it's like first day of school, I'm like, you're gonna go and find that kid that feels uncomfortable, and you're gonna go over and you're gonna say hi to them. Hmm. And it's like, that's the kind of thing that, you know, I think, you know, we can always have a little bit more of that. Yeah. And so I don't want my stand-up to be, those people, those idiots.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  I want it to be kind of like, we're all kind of idiots. Do you know what I mean? Or I'm an idiot, but maybe you can see yourself in me. Yeah. Because I understand that it's appealing to say, those idiots. Mm-hmm. But. We're all idiots. We're all idiots. Different stages of our life, right? And it's also, it's not constructive. Right. Do you know what I mean? Being better than or less than or whatever, yeah. Yeah, I think that's a constant struggle, right? I mean, that was the other thing that I think I really learned, was we intellectually know we can't get caught up in other people's expectations, but. We end up kind of sliding into that constantly. It's, you know, this movie, American Dreamer.

• 17:05Speaker 02

  I really just want, I love acting. I love the opportunity that it presented and I want, you know, this is my goal. My goal is for other directors and writers to see this film. But that being said, I also have been on this planet long enough to know that my ego will be like, yeah, but I'd also like, you know, it would be nice if if someone said I was good. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, of course. But like intellectually, I know what I should focus on. Yeah. Cause I think there was so much frustration for me in my career around seven or eight years where I was like,

• 17:45Speaker 02

  you know, I'm gonna be, cause all my friends had appeared on late night shows like Conan and Letterman and The Tonight Show and that was how things were measured at that point that I, and I had gone like three years where I was like, it's, it's, I had to face the reality. It was never, there was a possibility it was never gonna happen. And so I had to realize, all right, why am I doing this? Am I doing it for some kind of accolade or fame? Or am I doing it because it's creatively fulfilling? And so I really, you know, and some of it was therapy, but I was like, all right,

• 18:25Speaker 02

  so I'm doing this because I enjoy it because in every set, you know, I might come up with a new line that's gratifying and, you know, it's nice to make a room full of people laugh. So let's focus on that. Bring it to it, yeah. That creative fulfillment pursuit is, is something that I've learned over and over again. I've taken acting jobs that reinforce that. It's like, did I take this acting job because it was pleasing my ego? Or because other people were like, you're gonna get this amount every week. And you're like, oh, that's great, but like, the gem I know doesn't care about that.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  You know, so I care about the fact that I can act or play a complex, layered character.

• 19:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  I know that sounds corny, but.

• 19:19Lewis Howes?

  No, I mean, it's interesting. Have you ever taken a job or a gig or a show for the ego or the accolades fallen flat on your face because it wasn't for creative pursuits? Or it wasn't to bring people joy?

• 19:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I, I, I worked on a TV show that, you know, there was pilot season. There was a lot of close calls and that frustration. So after I had learned this lesson in stand up to just kind of focus on, I love doing this. I then had to learn that in acting. So I had some sitcom roles and I reoccurred on some good shows. And then I had, through pilot season, I had tested for shows that people might have heard of, like Arrested Development, The Office, and really close calls.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  And then because of that, because of not getting those, I think I was like, I need something to prove that I'm an actor. So I accepted a, a role in a show that was, didn't have a lot of opportunities for me to have opportunities to act.

• 20:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  And so as a result of me kind of grabbing appeasement for my ego, I ended up being on a show where, you know, I spent two years going, can I have more things to do? Not lines, but can I have more things to do? And they were like, no, it was always that size part.

• 20:55Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 20:55Speaker 02

  So that's a good example of me really messing up.

• 21:00Lewis Howes?

  Who do you think was more influential in your life growing up, mom or dad?

• 21:08Speaker 02

  I think that the compassion of my mother was because she was somebody that I knew loved me no matter what. So that's something that was huge. I think that also she was somebody, I had all these older siblings that and my brother right above me was better at football. He was smarter, he was, he was better at everything. Yeah, he was. And my, my mom did say something that you're like, he could whistle before me. He could do all these things that sounds stupid, but All the little bits. The boy in you remembers stuff like that.

• 21:49Speaker 02

  And, and my mom said, you know, there's something that you're good at, that's probably, you're probably better than Joe at. And I remember that that wasn't her betraying Joe. It was something where I was always kind of second fiddle. Because he's, by the way, in my family, I'm considered third funniest. Really? Yes. So it's like, hearing that I think was important. But I also think that my father had this work ethic. I don't, you know, like, this is my takeaway from it. But, you know, on Saturdays and Sundays, kids used to go and do stuff. But my dad would be like, no, we're doing yard work.

• 22:33Speaker 02

  And then he would reward us with McDonald's. And we thought it was a good deal. So we would work for like six hours and he'd be like, I'm gonna take you to McDonald's. Like this, that works out. And I think his work ethic, and I think also, you know, he was also somebody that, you know, you know, is complex. You know, it's like the father-son relationship is complex. But I also think that I'm a combination of all my siblings too. And seeing them pursue things or them struggle with things was, I think was very beneficial to have that perspective. But also, I don't know, you know, I wish, I feel very lucky.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  You know, there's, I have five kids and there's times when, you know, I have a 15 year old who's, she's very into music and. There's part of me that, remember like in Dead Poets Society, there was the dad who was

• 23:33Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 23:34Speaker 02

  very discouraging of the son.

• 23:36Lewis Howes?

  Actor, yeah.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it, you know. But the entertainment industry is so random. I mean, there are very talented people that can't get arrested. And many of them are my friends. And, and so like, my joke is like, you know, that mean dad in Dead Poets Society, he might have been right.

• 23:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  Because it is so, and there is something about the entertainment industry that is kind of unnecessarily cruel. I mean, life is cruel.

• 24:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 24:08Speaker 02

  But, you know, as a parent, you don't want your child to kind of.

• 24:11Lewis Howes?

  But would you have wanted your dad to say, eh, after three years, stop this comedy thing? You know, go back to your finance job?

• 24:18Speaker 02

  Well, I, I actually think that it was really beneficial that I did come from a family that my pursuit of this was relatively insane.

• 24:30Lewis Howes?

  Really? They were like, what are you doing?

• 24:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were, well, they were like, you know, Jimmy, he's a little crazy. You know what I mean? They're like.

• 24:37Lewis Howes?

  Once a week is a hobby.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, his mother died and now he's doing this thing, you know? And he's doing stand-up, but he doesn't make a living doing it.

• 24:44Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 24:45Speaker 02

  Like, there's a practicality.

• 24:47Lewis Howes?

  Especially in the 90s, right? Or where this was.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  Yes. And, and so there's this practicality of, I remember my brother-in-law at one point, he goes, so you go out and you do stand-up every night? And when you do get paid, you get how much? And I go, eight bucks. And he would be like, why would you do that? And I go, because I enjoy it. And he goes, why don't you get more than eight bucks? And I'm like, that's what they pay. And in fact, I don't really care about the money. You know, I'll go around New York City doing spots and the stage time is payment. I mean, that's not to say that I don't.

• 25:21Lewis Howes?

  You want the money, yeah, yeah. You want the money now. You got five kids to feed.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  I got five kids.

• 25:26Lewis Howes?

  And you've been doing it for 30 years.

• 25:33Lewis Howes?

  I want to take a moment from this episode with Jim and talk about Policy Genius. Now, Halloween is on the way, which means it's time to break out the rubber spiders, the fake cobwebs, and the jack-o'-lanterns. I'm all about that candy corn life. But if you've got a family, you might be dealing with something a little scarier right now, and that's shopping for life insurance. If the idea of looking for life insurance intimidates you, try policygenius.com. Now, Policy Genius is the easy way to shop for life insurance online. In minutes, you can compare quotes from top insurers to find your best price. Once you apply, the Policy Genius team will handle all the paperwork and red tape. And Policy Genius doesn't just make life insurance easy.

• 26:18Lewis Howes?

  They can also help you find the right home insurance, auto insurance, and disability insurance, all important things that I have. So this October, take the scariness out of buying life insurance with Policy Genius. Go to policygenius.com, get your quotes, and apply in minutes. You can do the whole thing on your phone right now. So check it out right now, policygenius.com. The easy way to compare and buy life insurance. And now, let's get back into this episode with Jim.

• 26:52Lewis Howes?

  I think I read on Forbes, I don't know if this was a few months ago, that you're one of the top three highest grossing comedians? Is that touring comedians or comedians in general?

• 27:01Speaker 02

  I think it's touring comedians, but it's also, it's, you know, the Forbes thing is like, is it an exact science?

• 27:09Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  No, but it is.

• 27:11Lewis Howes?

  Let's just say you're number one.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  No, no, no, I'm saying that like, it's one of those things where,

• 27:19Speaker 02

  you know, there's, there's all these calculations, right? And the entertainment industry is the perception business.

• 27:25Lewis Howes?

  It is.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  And, you know, I'm a pudgy, balding, pale guy. And so, and I talk about horses for 10 minutes in my special. So there's not something sexy. So like, I'm like, all right, you know, do I, you know, do I want to get the phone calls from every organization because they saw that Forbes list? No, but. I also, you know, I need some producers to know that I have some success.

• 27:54Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Does that make sense?

• 27:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I get it. The thing that I loved about what I read there, and who knows what's true or not, is that you had this opportunity to take a Netflix deal and you decided not to.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:05Lewis Howes?

  And you went the Amazon Prime route, plus just your own distribution.

• 28:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:10Lewis Howes?

  And you decided to bet on yourself, which I think is really cool. Because Louis C.K. did that, was that five, six years ago, seven years ago or something?

• 28:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:18Lewis Howes?

  And it seems like you're trying to do this, you're trying to kind of reinvent that model.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, there is something about, stand-up has changed so much just during the course of my career. I mean, Seinfeld started in the seventies and, but how comedy is consumed or has changed dramatically, like, and I have a belief that it changes every five years. So in 2006, when Beyond the Pail aired on Comedy Central, that was a time when every dorm room had a TV and cable and the, and the TV was on Comedy Central. When I went to college, there was maybe a TV in the lobby, but I don't even know if you had cable in colleges. This was in the eighteen hundreds.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  No, but like, there was, and then it shifted and Netflix was this enormous factor and, and there's different things, like even when I released Noble Ape on kind of multiple platforms, that was something, because I had, I have right now five specials on Netflix. And so there is a balance of, of going different places and expanding your audience. And some of it is you also want people to see it. So there was, I was also hearing from people like, I don't have Netflix, why can't I see this? And so then, that's why I did the distribution model where it went everywhere at the same

• 29:53Speaker 02

  time, because there are a lot of people that watch things on demand. And, you know, some of these things I experience and some of them I, I learn that, you know, like I have young kids, so I buy everything on iTunes. But a lot of people are like, I'll watch a movie once. But when you have a kid, you might as well want, you might as well buy it because you're gonna... They're gonna watch it 10 times. And so, but the Amazon Prime thing was an interesting idea. And, you know, and in Netflix's defense, they've got five specials. In some ways, they don't need another one. But there is also, looking at the streaming services in, you know, if we had a conversation six months from today,

• 30:38Speaker 02

  Disney's gonna be in the game, HBO Max is gonna be in the game. There's gonna be, Apple's gonna be in the game. It's, it's gonna shift. I don't know, you know, people are always talking like, is it gonna end with three? Is it gonna end with five? But what's fascinating is when I started stand up, the only place you could see it was on late night shows or on Ha TV, which was Comedy Central, or MTV had a show. You know what I mean?

• 31:06Lewis Howes?

  Did HBO do comedy specials then?

• 31:08Speaker 02

  They did, they did. HBO was obviously very important, but.

• 31:12Lewis Howes?

  You like, they made it if you're on HBO. That was like the golden.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  That was, that was the, the most important thing. And that shifts also. So, you know, The Tonight Show shifted to The Lederman Show. And then HBO retained this prestige. It still has incredible prestige. But the, you know, Netflix has gained importance. But also, like even when I went to Amazon Prime, I didn't know how many people had Amazon Prime. So like my special on Amazon Prime, the feedback I received from the Amazon Prime special to my last Netflix special, I would say the Amazon Prime feedback was twice as much.

• 31:57Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  And some of that is, if you look at Netflix, I describe it like this.

• 32:03Lewis Howes?

  So much content there.

• 32:05Speaker 02

  There's so much content. And so if content, and it's good content, a lot of it's good. If those are, if comedy specials are like floaties in a swimming pool, the pool is covered with floaties.

• 32:18Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  Whereas at Amazon Prime, I knew.

• 32:21Lewis Howes?

  Couple of floaties.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  There'd be a couple. And so I knew that the balance of that was advantageous to me. Cause in the end, again, I just want. People to see my comedy so that they'll come and see my show. Do you know what I mean?

• 32:38Lewis Howes?

  Touring, yeah.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you know, it's it's fun also. There's you have to kind of it's all constructed on self assignment. So you have to sit there and go, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell some stories. I'm gonna address something that's a little bit more taboo. And, you know, my friend Todd Glass, you know, when he sometimes he'll open for me and he's like, there you are, kind of like purifying your audience because you'll say things that some people will be like, I'm out. And you're like, you know what? It's good to kind of, you know.

• 33:12Lewis Howes?

  Cleanse it all, yeah.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's good to cleanse it because, yeah, I am a clean comedian. Um, I do love my wife and children, but I'm flawed. So I don't want people to think I'm a saint.

• 33:22Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 33:23Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 33:23Lewis Howes?

  Did 22 year old Jimmy ever think that you'd get here now?

• 33:28Speaker 02

  No.

• 33:28Lewis Howes?

  You're making 30, whatever it said, 30 million a year or whatever with.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, I I.

• 33:34Lewis Howes?

  Top gross comedian.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  My goal was to, you know, I wanted to be a writer on The Letterman Show. And, I mean, I had fantasies of acting. I'd, you know, but even back then, the people that were touring, doing theaters, were only legends. It was only Carlin and it was only Cosby that were touring. You know, Seinfeld could have, but he was on a TV show at the time. So it was not like that was even an option. And I viewed touring, going to comedy clubs. I was like, I don't know if I want to do that.

• 34:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  But it's also something that I really enjoy. By the way, that segue into headlining, doing smaller sets and then doing an hour set, that's pretty terrifying because you fall on your face.

• 34:21Lewis Howes?

  You've got another 45 minutes to go, you're like.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  You fall on your face hard.

• 34:26Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  And so there is something about.

• 34:32Speaker 02

  The bravery and the comfort. It's the balance of comfort and being brave. So I remember being at the DC Improv and they were nice enough to let me headline. And I pretty much bombed.

• 34:46Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 34:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:47Lewis Howes?

  How long was the set?

• 34:48Speaker 02

  It was probably forty-five minutes.

• 34:50Lewis Howes?

  What do you do after, what do you do after ten minutes when you're like, wow, I'm not getting anything here?

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Well, some of it, some of it was, you know, it was okay.

• 34:59Lewis Howes?

  But you're the headliner.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  But you're the headliner. You're like the main course. And, you know, I guess I felt bad. There was this guy who probably, John X was his name. His last name is like a Greek name that starts with X, but he went by John X. And he had kind of stuck out his neck and say, we should headline Jim Gaffigan. And I was more worried about getting him in trouble.

• 35:23Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  So.

• 35:25Lewis Howes?

  But doesn't every great, anyone have to go through extreme embarrassment over and over again in order to get through the other side?

• 35:33Speaker 02

  I think, yeah, there's, there's like.

• 35:36Lewis Howes?

  Comedians, actors, public speakers, whatever it may be.

• 35:39Speaker 02

  Everything. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's like, you have to, you have to, to fail. And I think that's an advantage of having children is you see them going to school for the first day and they're like a combination of excitement and terrified. Or they're playing soccer on a team and they kick the ball the wrong way. It's like, like as, as adults, we kind of navigate this world by like, all right, I'm not doing that again. But as kids, they don't have the benefit of experience. And so seeing my children bravely do things, I mean, it's, it's, it's brutal.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  But it's, that does provide some of the bravery to go on stage and even if it's, you know, do a joke that falls flat or gets misinterpreted and, you know, it's like, you know, you're, you're, you know, you, you're reminded through your children that you have to do that.

• 36:43Lewis Howes?

  You have to constantly. Do you ever feel, you got five kids and do you ever feel, and you're touring how many days a year?

• 36:51Lewis Howes?

  On average.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  Like two weekends a month.

• 36:53Lewis Howes?

  Two weeks a month, okay. Do you ever feel, that's not that bad then. I thought you were gone a lot longer.

• 36:58Speaker 02

  It's, yeah, it's, you know, if you looked at my calendar, it looks like I'm gone every day. But, you know, and then there'll be a week where I'll be in like Europe, but then my family will meet me. You know what I mean? So it's all concentrated on not being away too long.

• 37:12Lewis Howes?

  Have you been able to balance that pretty well, being, you know?

• 37:14Speaker 02

  It's, you know, it's something I learn and then relearn.

• 37:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:18Speaker 02

  And then relearn. So hopefully, the, you know, when I'm in the hospital bed, I don't go, oh no, I did it wrong. But it is a constant balance.

• 37:30Lewis Howes?

  I think there's a balance between like being, I'm not a father yet, so.

• 37:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:34Lewis Howes?

  But my girlfriend says she wants to have five kids, so I can see myself where you're at. I can see the balance between like being the example for your kids and saying, I'm going after the thing that I love.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:45Lewis Howes?

  And I want you to be able to do that and having that example, but also being there for them.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:50Lewis Howes?

  And spending quality time.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is, it is a balance. And there is, being a parent is terrifying because Khalil, Gabran, you know, like these children are on loan. You're, you don't want to mess up. And you know you're gonna fail. So there is this, and I waver in between letting them find their own path and also my dad, like being kind of a bastard. Not, not necessarily a bastard, but like, no, you can't do that. Like making sure that my children hear no. You know, I want them to like me.

• 38:29Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 38:29Speaker 02

  But I also, my responsibility is to make sure that they're not douchebags.

• 38:34Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  Right? Isn't that the bigger task?

• 38:37Lewis Howes?

  It's true, being a good human being.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:39Lewis Howes?

  And your, your wife?

• 38:41Speaker 02

  I'm also lucky because my wife is an amazing part.

• 38:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, but a couple of years ago, she had a, a health care, right?

• 38:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:48Lewis Howes?

  She had some brain surgery?

• 38:50Speaker 02

  She had a brain tumor, a tumor the size of a pear that was right on her brain stem. And It must have been scary. Beyond scary, absolutely terrifying. And then it was a level of terror that you can't kind of articulate. And there's, there's, you know, there's also, I think humans, having toured with Nobel Lab, where I discussed a lot of this, it became very apparent that we all have this experience of a loved one, whether it's a grandparent, or God forbid, a child going through this life or death kind of struggle. But I think that humans, we kind of shut it off

• 39:30Speaker 02

  because we can't live in that reality. We can't live in the reality that we're all gonna die. And the people we love are gonna die. And what was terrifying was also that, you know, you know, initially, it was a brain tumor on, you know, these important cranial nerves that, you know, cover swallowing and Wow. Eyesight. She couldn't swallow for a while. She couldn't swallow. She couldn't eat anything for two months. Didn't drink water? And, and she couldn't drink water. And she was living with a guy who's a glutton. And so, but it was like, there was the brain tumor. And then there was a moment, so the brain tumor was removed. And my wife is such Size of a pear. Size of a pear. That's crazy.

• 40:15Speaker 02

  You know, like where the surgeon was like, I'm not sure how you're walking around right now. And so they removed that. There was, because I'm also, I think stand up comedy, you learn how to read people. Not perfectly, but you can read people. You can see kind of fear and facial expressions, or kind of like vocal inflections that would communicate that they're uncomfortable. And I was always trying to read this brain surgeon. And who, by the way, that's an impossible job. Being, being a doctor is just insane. And so I What are the chances? What's the recovery time? I don't know, 4%?

• 40:55Speaker 02

  Well, that's, it's like, and they have to be this, they have to, I don't think people realize, I mean, I'm sure people do, but like, I was shocked to realize how they have to Navigate expectations because they have to temper everything. I'm very confident, you know, like their words are so selective, but there was reading this brain surgeon. Because after she got, after they removed the brain tumor, then she got pneumonia. And that's when I saw the fear in his eyes. And I remember just the flash of his eyes where this brilliant, confident, compassionate man had fear in his eyes.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  And I was like, ah, and I was very much resigned to the fact, I'm like, well, okay, you know, I've got to put my children first. It's kind of had a good run.

• 41:50Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  You know.

• 41:51Lewis Howes?

  You're already going there.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  I was already kind of like, all right, this is.

• 41:55Lewis Howes?

  Tori's done.

• 41:56Speaker 02

  Cause I was, I always had the belief that, that I got to, I was lucky enough to find an occupation that I loved. That somehow the universe or God was like, you can have what you, you can do what you love, or you can have a family. Like in my thirties, I was like, I get to do what I like, you know? I don't have control over this, so I got both of them. And so in that moment, I kind of had this belief of like, okay, you got to do what you like. Now you have to take care of these five children.

• 42:30Lewis Howes?

  You got a 25 year good run at it.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 42:33Lewis Howes?

  You lived your childhood dream, you inspired people, you made people laugh.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  But now you are going to.

• 42:40Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 42:41Speaker 02

  Shift gears. And so there was this reality. And of course, my wife is such a tank that, you know, she pulled through even when I could see in that surgeon's eyes that he was not confident.

• 42:56Lewis Howes?

  Five, 10%.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, you know, I don't know, but like it's, it's like, I had been looking at this guy's eyes for. The entire time period, which was the only thing that we did over those five or six days. And then she got out of the pneumonia and she couldn't eat or drink. And so you're dealing with the

• 43:19Lewis Howes?

  With an IV, probably getting fluids.

• 43:21Speaker 02

  Unbelievable. And she couldn't talk. And, you know, my wife loves to talk.

• 43:28Lewis Howes?

  So you're like, this is actually kind of nice.

• 43:30Speaker 02

  And I love

• 43:31Lewis Howes?

  For a second.

• 43:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love. No, that was totally the joke. But she, you know, it's like, we were very lucky, you know, and she's a very spiritual person. And I think she found great strength in that. And

• 43:44Lewis Howes?

  What did that experience give you?

• 43:48Speaker 02

  Oh, you know, that experience gave me a much more positive view of human beings. The support from not only her family, which was amazing, but and our, you know, the community of friends and parents of my children's friends, which was amazing. Or, you know, our church that we go to, like, people step up, you're like, oh, this is, this is why people have these things, you know, these support groups. But generally, the consensus on social media, because my wife got out of this, and she wanted, she wanted to communicate

• 44:33Speaker 02

  to people that you can live through this. Because when we just, when she discovered she had a brain tumor the size of a pear, the first thing she did was go to Google and like, who had a tumor in their cranial nerves that is fine? And she couldn't find anyone. So once she got through, she wanted to make sure that information was out there.

• 44:53Lewis Howes?

  She's got a book coming out, too.

• 44:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, she has a book coming out.

• 44:55Lewis Howes?

  This month or next month?

• 44:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, October 1. And so I was relatively reluctant. You know, it's strange. We live in this voyeuristic, exhibitionist culture. And there are certain things you want to share and certain things you, you know, do we want to share this? But obviously, I was gonna do whatever she wanted. And it was, you know, there was something about

• 45:21Speaker 02

  You know, eventually I would do stand up on it, but like when the outpouring of support, it's like human beings, there's a real good side to people and like the generosity is, you know, there isn't a boundary to it necessarily. I mean, I'll be in an airport and people will be like, how's your wife?

• 45:40Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  So it's pretty, it's pretty cool.

• 45:43Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 45:44Speaker 02

  It's pretty cool. Like, I know we live in kind of a, an angry time, but human beings are all right.

• 45:50Lewis Howes?

  They're pretty cool.

• 45:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, when stuff is really going dark, it's like they wanna be there.

• 45:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:55Lewis Howes?

  That's powerful. And did you feel like you became a better father and a better comedian with that experience? Or?

• 46:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it was.

• 46:04Lewis Howes?

  Stayed the same?

• 46:05Speaker 02

  And she kind of details it in the book. It was, so my wife is, I kind of refer to her as, I mean, she was the executive producer of this TV show that we wrote together. But she is, you know, become the executive producer of my life and my family's life. So what transpired there was I had to adopt, I had to switch the role from care receiver to caregiver.

• 46:35Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  And I think, I know I was terrified and I'm sure she was like, I don't know this guy could do this. Do you know what I mean? And so being a caregiver is.

• 46:47Lewis Howes?

  It's a different role.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  It's a different role and it's also, it's, I don't think people vocalize, it's, it's brutal. It's brutal because you're not only the press secretary of the situation, but you're, you know, there's no real breaks. And by the way, the person that's going through this incredible recovery has got it worse, obviously. But I have a lot of, I gained a real empathy for people that, that are in that caregiving role and.

• 47:19Lewis Howes?

  It's not easy.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  It's.

• 47:22Lewis Howes?

  Hard job.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  It's not easy. There's not, you know, there's not. Really, I mean, you're doing it all for the right reasons, but there's, you know, and by the way, you know, my wife, when she was going through some of this recovery, she didn't know I was there. Do you know what I mean? And so like, there was a time at a anniversary, she was like, why weren't you at the hospital? And I'm like.

• 47:44Lewis Howes?

  I was there, sitting next to you the whole time.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  And so it's like, but that's not her fault. She was kind of in and out of consciousness. And there's also something really kind of special about getting that opportunity to show up for someone.

• 48:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 48:00Speaker 02

  Do you know what I mean? So like, there is something rather special about being the guy or the life partner you want to be. Do you know what I mean?

• 48:11Lewis Howes?

  Of course, yeah.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  And I understand some people freak out and they're like, I gotta go.

• 48:14Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 48:15Speaker 02

  But I wasn't that.

• 48:16Lewis Howes?

  That's good. That allowed you the opportunity to step up.

• 48:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:19Lewis Howes?

  And show what you're made of. Yeah.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:21Lewis Howes?

  Uh, I've got a few questions left for you. I want to respect your time, but I have a couple of questions more. This is about winning over a crowd. When you feel like, I'm curious what you feel like your keys would be, if you could simplify it for people listening who maybe are public speakers, or maybe are performers or actors, who feel like they've lost the crowd, or they feel like they're about to go on to their, their stage, whatever their stage may be. What would you say are the kind of fundamental keys to winning over a crowd quickly, when you step on stage, or when you've lost it and you gotta get them back?

• 48:56Speaker 02

  Well, there's a balance, right? Because even our society has shifted.

• 49:01Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 49:02Speaker 02

  Uh, in, I mean, I'm a big believer in being self-effacing, but there are also situations where that comes across as weakness.

• 49:13Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  And that weakness can make, since we're animals. The weakness can be like encourage disruption, right? But I would say that, you know, you can say anything if you lay the tracks for it. What do you mean by that? So, you know, there's occasionally you'll see someone say something that is irreverent or kind of shocking. But if they had set it up in the right way or something bold, it's just like any good car salesman. The context. It's the context. Yeah.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  And so I think that for stand up, you know, there is also like an authority thing where you have to go on stage and be in charge. People want someone in charge. They don't want someone, I mean, I know I'm saying contradictory things. Right, right, but it makes sense. Be in charge, but be self-deprecating. But the vulnerability is what people empathize with. I mean. So how do you get in charge? Richard Pryor is one of the best comedians to ever walk on this planet. And if you watch him, he is completely vulnerable the entire time. But he also has a sense of authority. How do you do both?

• 50:38Speaker 02

  I think some of it is, I think some of it is trial and error. And I think some of it's preparation too. I think if you're not prepared, that's a big problem. And that's like, you know, and I know that like there are people, like I think Dave Chappelle can walk on any stage. And crush, just by looking at people. But you know what? That's good. But you know, that's not everyone. Like I can't do that. Some of it is understanding the environment. It is measuring. It's like, do these people want to be here? Do they all have things in common? Did they play golf all day? How do they view me?

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Because if I go on stage in front of an audience that likes my comedy, that's a different task than going on stage in front of. High school students. Who don't know who you are. That just look at me as like an old dude, right? And so, maybe it's not vulnerability, it's self-awareness. And that self-awareness changes. So, when I do international shows, I'm not this doughy white guy. I'm an American. Really? I'm an American who, and granted, there's often Americans in the audience, but... So, the task might be different there. It might be prove to us that you're not a dumb American.

• 52:03Speaker 02

  And some of that is, I personally love other cultures and I'm fascinated by different things like that. And so, that can be achieved by doing research. Wow. On that country or city. And then, um, I don't know, it's ever... And by the way, these are the conversations that comedians have all the time. Really? And some people have

• 52:27Speaker 02

  an intangible ability to... And some of it's a sheer confidence. Like, I think Seinfeld and Chris Rock. Chris Rock is amazing. Have a, uh, a confidence that is... People find inspiring, you know what I mean? And they're like, alright, yeah, let's see what he's got to say. Whereas, someone like Jonathan Winters, it's a different thing, right? He's a self-contained kind of... But even, even if you look at Robin Williams' stuff, it's very vulnerable. Yeah. Like, I think that, overall, um, there's a bravery and a vulnerability. I know it's contradictory, but like, if you look at George Carlin. Courage and vulnerability, yeah, yeah.

• 53:10Speaker 02

  Like, George Carlin, people love what he says, but sometimes they didn't love it in that moment. Because I also think that there is... And this is, I've never talked to, uh, I've talked to other comedians about this. I think there's an aftertaste to humor. And let me, let me articulate. Later that night, you think about it. Yeah, and there's also, we all have that.

• 53:35Speaker 02

  Kind of nasty bitchy friend who is kind of like ripping into people and you kind of laugh along and it's entertaining, but you also, an hour later, you're like, you know, do you know what I mean? So there's an aftertaste. And so sometimes even like some anger, whether you agree with it or not, you're like, there's an aftertaste to it. Or even kind of guilty pleasures. We all have guilty pleasures. There is an aftertaste to it. So that was something I learned later on. It wasn't something like, I'm gonna institute this aftertaste theory. It's just something that,

• 54:19Speaker 02

  it's like, why do we love certain movies so much? I think, you know, Shawshank Redemption.

• 54:25Lewis Howes?

  So good.

• 54:26Speaker 02

  There's an aftertaste there, right? And it is, some of it's Morgan Freeman, some of it's the story, some of it's, you know, it's just the whole shebang, right? It's the vulnerability of different characters. And so there is something about the aftertaste of it.

• 54:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, wow.

• 54:43Speaker 02

  It's always about food with me.

• 54:44Lewis Howes?

  I love it. This question is what I ask everyone towards the end of the show. It's called the three truths.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 54:51Lewis Howes?

  So imagine it's your last day on earth, many years from now. You get to live as long as you want to be, but eventually you gotta go somewhere else.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:59Lewis Howes?

  And you've achieved every dream that you set out in your mind. It's all been created, the shows, movies, whatever. You've got your own network, whatever it is you want to do, have 10 more kids.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:09Lewis Howes?

  It's all there. You've created it, you've done it. But for whatever reason, in this world, you've got to take all of your work with you. So all of your books and series and videos and content, it's all gone. So no one has access to your information anymore that you've created. But you get to leave behind three things you know to be true about all the lessons you've learned in your life that you would then kind of give as your bible, these three truths, to the world to have. What would you say are your three lessons that you would leave behind, or what I like to call three truths?

• 55:42Speaker 02

  Oh, that's interesting. I think intellectually, we all know this, but I think that in the end, I am a parent, and in the end, it's your children are, that's

• 55:56Speaker 02

  You know, that's, that's the end equation, right? When you're dying, there isn't someone from the Grammy nominating committee. Thanks for those four albums, you know? So that is something that I think people lose. We all lose sight of like that. And whether, you know, for me, it's my children's. For some people, it's close friends or whatever. That's, that's where you're gonna be measuring yourself is that level of humanity. I also.

• 56:31Lewis Howes?

  What would you say about that then? What would your truth be around children? Or parenting or?

• 56:37Speaker 02

  If you have a child, that's the most, that's your only job. Everything else is kind of a hobby.

• 56:42Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  Another truth is that you can't rely on other people to do things. Like there's a romantic notion, there's stories of Hollywood, someone being in a soda shop and, you know, someone being discovered, but the reality is, is not only do you have to do it yourself, but you have to find your own path and you have to assume that you're gonna have to do absolutely everything. You didn't, like this whole studio or whatever, this podcast, it was you.

• 57:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it was all.

• 57:18Speaker 02

  It wasn't someone coming in going, hey, you're an interesting guy. Here you go.

• 57:23Lewis Howes?

  No one said that.

• 57:24Speaker 02

  It's.

• 57:25Lewis Howes?

  Don't give me anything, yeah.

• 57:26Speaker 02

  There's, so I guess maybe there's like, there's no excuse for hard work, right?

• 57:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:32Speaker 02

  You better love it. Do you know what I mean?

• 57:36Lewis Howes?

  That's, that's two.

• 57:38Speaker 02

  Two, uh, I would say that, uh, don't get caught up in other people's expectations. And that goes back to even the beginning of my story. Like I studied finance because I more or less listened to what I thought I should do. And then, you know, seeking.

• 57:59Speaker 02

  Things that I think society would or the entertainment industry would value rather than what I wanted to do. And so other people's expectations not only are they unwise, but they are dangerous. Like be very wary of other people's expectations. It's not a conspiracy, but they're not you.

• 58:24Lewis Howes?

  They're not you. They don't know your whole context, your whole life.

• 58:27Speaker 02

  And you have to you have to keep asking yourself. And so there's a lot of people. I mean, I don't know. I can only speak for myself. There's a lot of times where I'm like, wait, I don't even want to do this.

• 58:40Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 58:40Speaker 02

  What am I doing?

• 58:41Lewis Howes?

  Why would I say yes to this?

• 58:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, by the way, it's like you're in shape. I'm not in shape. I have to decide that I want to be in shape. And I say that to my kids. They're in perfect shape, but I'm like, work hard in school, but don't do it for me. Do you know what I mean? And my mom actually told me that. It's like, don't do any of this for me. Cause if you're doing it for someone else, you're gonna resent that person or you're not gonna do it.

• 59:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 59:10Speaker 02

  Like you have to do it for yourself.

• 59:12Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting because there's there's kind of a contradiction there. You know, we should do things for ourselves, but we should also be doing things to support other people. Like you're doing things also to inspire your kids. You're not doing it for them, but you want to be a model. You want to be an example and things like that as well, right?

• 59:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think, yeah.

• 59:31Lewis Howes?

  It's not because they want you to do it.

• 59:33Speaker 02

  Right. It's a strange kind of, it's weird because it could slide into narcissism, right? You could be like, do it just for yourself.

• 59:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, right.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  Forget about these other people getting in your way. But it's like, yeah. And I think that's, it's becoming the person that is how often do people realize they're doing things for their parents? You know what I mean?

• 59:56Lewis Howes?

  Takes them a while, probably.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  And, and or for society and the whole.

• 1:00:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. What I love about you, Jim, is you have a very, you have so much depth to you. You have, you have a lot of depth and your heart is so loving and powerful.

• 1:00:09Speaker 02

  Oh, thanks.

• 1:00:10Lewis Howes?

  For the first time meeting you and, and only seeing comedy stuff. And then last night, watching this new movie you have, American Dreamers. I realized that there is so much. Character to you.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  Oh, thanks.

• 1:00:23Lewis Howes?

  And I love the complexity that you bring to the movie and to life.

• 1:00:29Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:00:29Lewis Howes?

  You've had this so much experience that you can share with people now. From childhood in the Midwest to your mom.

• 1:00:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:37Lewis Howes?

  To your wife, going through the challenges, to seeing the world and, you know, performing in front of millions of people. This role you play is not what I expected, but it was so like rewarding as well.

• 1:00:49Speaker 02

  Oh, thanks.

• 1:00:50Lewis Howes?

  Can you share us a little bit more about the movie? And how people can watch it and why they should watch it?

• 1:00:55Speaker 02

  What I love about a good movie is that people will have different things that they take away from it. Good art just presents questions. It doesn't provide answers.

• 1:01:07Lewis Howes?

  There's a lot of questions at the end.

• 1:01:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a lot of.

• 1:01:09Lewis Howes?

  I was kind of like, I want another five minutes.

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  Well, it's also, I think, I play this ride share driver who's on hard times and ends up driving around a drug dealer. And he makes some questionable moves, but what.

• 1:01:23Lewis Howes?

  Unquestionable.

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  But what I loved about this character, I mean, you have to like, you have to play characters. You don't have to love them, but you have to like them and you have to like be honest to their truths. I know that sounds kind of, but you have to be like, this guy's truth is this. And so therefore it makes perfect sense that he would do this. But this guy, like a lot of men, I mean, I generally think, like men, we have to learn to be civilized. We have to learn to kind of not respond emotionally. We have to learn, and I see it with my boys.

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  And what Cam embodies is a lot of, um, he doesn't want to take accountability for things.

• 1:02:13Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:02:13Speaker 02

  Which I identify with.

• 1:02:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  I mean, I think everyone's guilty of it. And he is also someone who is blaming the things around him and blaming the people around him. And it's also sad, you know, because there's, there's plenty of work to do on yourself. I mean, like when you were talking about, it's like, you're an unfinished project, you know? But that's the truth and. And what's so frustrating is we're gonna learn these things and then we're gonna have to learn them again.

• 1:02:43Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  It's like a torturous journey.

• 1:02:47Lewis Howes?

  Every year.

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  You're like, how could I have to learn this lesson that I was so grateful that I learned six months ago? But, and I think that Cam, the, the character I play, um, cause I can come, I'm far from a saint, but I think that he also puts things in, in compartments in his head. And I think I've done that where I'm like, you know what?

• 1:03:15Lewis Howes?

  Justifying something.

• 1:03:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, you justify, rationalize, and I think, you know, I think America does that. I think we do that. We like a romantic notion of a country of immigrants, but there's a lot of sins. And so I think Cam kind of embodies that and he, he's well intended, I think, but it's like, he's gotta, he's gotta do some, he's gotta take some accountability.

• 1:03:45Lewis Howes?

  It is crazy, man.

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:47Lewis Howes?

  When you're, I don't wanna give it away, but when you're just driving away with the, both of the backseat, I'm just like, what is going on here?

• 1:03:53Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:03:54Lewis Howes?

  How could you live with yourself, knowing the things you've done? You've done all these things that are compromised.

• 1:04:00Speaker 02

  But people do that.

• 1:04:02Lewis Howes?

  But then you're lying to yourself, you're lying to people, the backseat, you're, I don't know how.

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  I think society, I think we look at people that do horrible things and we think they're just those horrible things, but they were, a series of events went into it. Like, I, I consider myself very fortunate. I, I've, you know, but we're all a couple of bad decisions away from being in a real dark place.

• 1:04:36Lewis Howes?

  One bad decision.

• 1:04:37Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:04:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:39Speaker 02

  And, um, I don't know. It's pretty scary.

• 1:04:41Lewis Howes?

  It's scary. It's powerful movie and where can they get it at? Right? It's out right now.

• 1:04:46Speaker 02

  It's out now and it's uh, it's in select cities, but it's on iTunes. It's on video on demand. Uh, but don't watch it with a kid, you know?

• 1:04:55Lewis Howes?

  Don't. If you're a parent, don't watch it at night.

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  No, it's like, but watch it. It's, I would suggest watching it with someone so that you could have a conversation because there are different. And I don't want to plant any seeds because there are different takeaways. Some people are like, it's commentary on capitalism. Some people are like, it's, you know, it's different things.

• 1:05:16Lewis Howes?

  But I think it's your, your character really comes out. You, your personal character comes out and your heart and your complexity. So I really appreciate the work you put into that. And I know that was probably fun and challenging at the same time. Uh, where can we follow you and find you on tour and be part of you on social media?

• 1:05:34Speaker 02

  I'm all over social media and I'm, I'm always touring. I love doing stand-up. I love coming up with new material and uh, that's, I'm gonna do that until people stop coming.

• 1:05:49Lewis Howes?

  Right. So social media, they can follow you. They can see your tour dates on your website.

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:05:53Lewis Howes?

  It's just yourname.com.

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:55Lewis Howes?

  They can get the movie right now. I'm telling you, watch this movie. It's, it's pretty fascinating. I have one final question for you, and again, I want to acknowledge you, Jim, for just your heart. I think.

• 1:06:04Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 1:06:04Lewis Howes?

  I've met a lot of different comedians and I feel like sometimes they're always on. And you really showed up today with your heart and just sharing your vulnerability. So I really acknowledge that and appreciate that. Final question is, what is your definition of greatness?

• 1:06:22Speaker 02

  I think it's, the greatness is a, a commitment to the journey. Like, I think that LeBron James or um, Tom Brady.

• 1:06:36Speaker 02

  It's like that commitment, like I don't even know what they do. You hear rumors about, but you know, either of those guys, I think their greatness is constructed on incredible sacrifice and incredible commitment. So I think that greatness is, I think greatness is such a commitment. I think sometimes we put greatness on things, thinking that people are anointed with greatness, but it's earned.

• 1:07:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  It's earned and not everyone, everyone should have their own definition of it, but like, you know, and I'm not a Patriots fan, but like, Tom Brady is undeniably great.

• 1:07:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:23Speaker 02

  Even if he never wins another one, you know, he serves as an example of someone that whatever motivates him, it is pretty impressive. It's pretty inspiring and LeBron's the same way.

• 1:07:36Lewis Howes?

  He's amazing. Yeah. Very cool. Jim, thanks so much, man.

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

• 1:07:40Lewis Howes?

  Thank you.

• 1:07:46Lewis Howes?

  There you have it, my friend. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Maybe not exactly what you thought. This wasn't a comedy hour special. We really dived into the more emotional matters of the heart in Jim's life and his family and his wife and everything that he's gone through. For me, that's the stuff I love to find out about. You can go watch one of his top five bestselling specials on Netflix or Amazon Prime right now. You can go see his show, but I wanted him to share the things that he probably doesn't share that much in a different perspective. So I hope you enjoyed this episode. A big thank you to our sponsors today, Policy Genius. Make sure to go to policygenius.com. You can compare quotes and apply in minutes to make sure you get the scariness out of buying life insurance.

• 1:08:31Lewis Howes?

  Make sure to check it out, policygenius.com as it's the easiest way to compare and buy life insurance.

• 1:08:38Lewis Howes?

  Again, share this with one friend today. Text a friend, lewishouse.com/857, or just copy and paste the podcast link on the Apple Podcast or Spotify or wherever you're listening to this right now, and text it to one friend you think this might help improve their life. You can be the hero and the champion in someone's life by just sharing a piece of valuable content to them that could lift their spirit, that could encourage them, that could help them grow and improve their life. And I want to thank you again, like I did in the beginning, for showing up today to improve your life. You're a seeker, you're a dreamer, you're a conscious achiever. You're looking for the information that'll help you accelerate your life and not just stay stuck and not just stay in the same place you've been,

• 1:09:21Lewis Howes?

  but get you to the place you want to be. Close the gap from where you are to want to be, and that's why I want to say thank you. You are here for a reason, you have an incredible gift, and no matter what amount of self doubt you might be facing right now, no matter how much adversity you feel like you're going through, no matter how much of a burden or weight is on your chest from your family or your business or your career or your life or your health, I'm telling you, it's possible to get out of it. You are doing the work right now, and that's the way you're going to get out of it. Find peace in your heart, knowing that you have the power to get through it, and you will get through it if you continue to live in a grateful state,

• 1:10:03Lewis Howes?

  in a peaceful state, in a encouraging state towards other people. The more you encourage others, the more courage you bring in your heart. So the quickest way to get out of your stress and anxiety is to be in service, is to give to others, is to lift others up, to share valuable insights, to inspire other people, to be kind. You can inspire through a hug, a smile, a high five, a congratulations. It doesn't have to look pretty. Just get out of your own self and be in service to someone else today. If you enjoyed this message, share it with one friend. Subscribe if this is your first time here. Be a part of this movement of greatness. We are on a mission to impact 100 million people every single day.

• 1:10:47Lewis Howes?

  So thank you for being here. Thank you for improving your life. Thank you for doing the work and inspiring me to continue to find people like Jim to bring you the greatest insights in the world. If we bring it back to the beginning, Langston Hughes said, "Like a welcome summer rain, humor may suddenly cleanse and cool the earth, the air, and you." Always remember to bring joy and humor in your life as well. The more stress and anxiety you have, bring some lightness with some humor. I love you so very much and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.