Jocko Podcast 25: Jody Mitic(Pt.2)Q&A – Mental Prep, Stressful Situations, “Soldier First” Principle, Jody’s Wife

0:00:00 - Opening & Random Talk 0:14:51 - Mental Exercises for Stressful situations (Jody and Jocko) 0:22:47 - Opinions of "Soldier First" Principle. 0:33:30 - Silencing Distractions to achieve goals 0:54:40 - Mental prep, and routines in and out of battle. 1:11:26 - About Jody's wife, who was the medic who saved him when he was wounded. 1:20:53 - Dealing w/ being away from Family. 1:28:01 - Jody's workout methods. 1:48:04 - Handling doubts in life. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 25 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. And once again, we have this evening, Jody Middick. And if you didn't listen to the last podcast, this is our first double guest. He's been on the podcast twice. We went so long on the first podcast that we had to break it up into two podcasts. But Jody had a lot of, been through a lot of stuff, had a lot of stuff to talk about. Canadian Army soldier sniper, served in Afghanistan. Member of the city council up in Ottawa, he's been on TV.

• 0:45Jocko Willink?

  He wrote this book right here, boom. It's called Unflinching, The Making of a Canadian Sniper. And he was wounded in Afghanistan, lost, double amputee below the knees. And we talked about that on the first podcast, if you haven't, on podcast number 24. If you haven't listened to that one, listen to that one first so you get the context of what we're about to go into tonight. But welcome to the show once again, Jody.

• 1:16Jody Mitic?

  Awesome, man. Thank you.

• 1:17Jocko Willink?

  Appreciate it. Echo Charles.

• 1:18Speaker 02

  Good evening.

• 1:20Jocko Willink?

  Good evening.

• 1:22Jocko Willink?

  So

• 1:25Jocko Willink?

  with this one, since we already talked for a long time on the first one.

• 1:30Jody Mitic?

  Didn't feel like a long time.

• 1:30Jocko Willink?

  No, it didn't. But this time we got some, we did get some questions from the interwebs and it was.

• 1:38Jody Mitic?

  Now, do you strictly pull from Twitter or do you get emails and stuff?

• 1:42Jocko Willink?

  I get Facebook and.

• 1:44Jody Mitic?

  What about your Instagram?

• 1:45Jocko Willink?

  Okay, the problem with Instagram is you can't copy and paste from Instagram on my phone into the document that I travel with and keep going. So Twitter is the one that, Twitter is the easiest one. Facebook's fine too, but I primarily use Twitter to get the questions from all the troopers out there that.

• 2:03Jody Mitic?

  And it keeps the questions short.

• 2:05Jocko Willink?

  Yes, you have 140 characters.

• 2:07Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 2:08Jocko Willink?

  And we know I've got now, so I have something called the the question podcast question bank.

• 2:14Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 2:14Jocko Willink?

  Which I've caught captured every question that anyone's ever asked me, they're in there. And I just every time I, you know, you got a chance of coming up in the lottery every time.

• 2:23Jody Mitic?

  Nice.

• 2:24Jocko Willink?

  Cause I go through it and I go through all from the beginning and just look for questions that are pertinent. Maybe the pertinent of the topic that I'm talking about that night, maybe it's pertinent to something that's going on.

• 2:33Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 2:34Jocko Willink?

  In the world, but I just pick them and say, oh yeah, that that's a question that people have, or I'll see repetitive question. People, a bunch of different people will ask me the same thing. And then that becomes one of the questions, but that's kind of how we've been doing it.

• 2:46Jody Mitic?

  Right. So do you, do you find you get, cause you, you know, we, I don't want to hash it out too much, but like your podcast went from non-existent to number one in about like six days, something crazy like that. Like you, you left the Joe Rogan podcast.

• 3:02Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 3:03Jody Mitic?

  Did you did started your own, hit number one and like now like you get too much correspondence. Like, how do you keep up? Like I've noticed you are, you're like, you must make Twitter a daily task.

• 3:16Jocko Willink?

  Oh, I have to, yeah. And I, I'll be honest with you. I don't know how long I'm going to be able to keep it up for.

• 3:20Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 3:21Jocko Willink?

  Because.

• 3:21Jody Mitic?

  So you're approaching critical mass.

• 3:23Jocko Willink?

  I'm approaching critical mass where I'm going to have to, where I'm not going to be able to, cause right now I read everything. I'll probably always read them all. I mean, unless it just gets crazy, but I, I, I at least read them. And I'll try and respond if it's something quick. If it's not something I can respond to immediately.

• 3:40Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 3:40Jocko Willink?

  I'll just put it in the question bank and.

• 3:44Jody Mitic?

  Would you ever consider getting someone to do it for you?

• 3:47Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 3:48Jody Mitic?

  Like not answer, but like take it all in, record it like, so you don't have to check yourself.

• 3:54Jocko Willink?

  Maybe I guess that seems like something Tim Ferriss would tell me to do, which is, which is smart.

• 4:00Jody Mitic?

  He'd tell you to hire a kid in Pakistan and do it for eight bucks an hour.

• 4:03Jocko Willink?

  Right. No, and maybe that's a smart thing to do. The problem I find with that is. I I wouldn't if I was wanting to talk to me and I was one of the troopers out there I'd want I'd rather have take the chances of not hearing anything back from me but know that the guy that actually read this thing was me.

• 4:21Jody Mitic?

  I'm a hundred percent with you. I've had people tell me to hand my stuff over and I'm like uh uh cuz that's me.

• 4:28Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 4:28Jody Mitic?

  There's one reason why I interact with Jocko on Twitter. It's cuz I know it's Jocko.

• 4:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. And I think that's the feeling most people would have. I know I would have it.

• 4:36Jody Mitic?

  Guess who you un- guess who I unfollow on Twitter? When I realize, oh, that's not that's not him or her. Oh, okay. So never mind.

• 4:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 4:46Jocko Willink?

  For me, it's like if you're in a leadership position and you lead, you send someone else to do your bidding.

• 4:55Jody Mitic?

  Ooh.

• 4:55Jocko Willink?

  That's to me is not good and I wouldn't like that if I was a follower.

• 5:00Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, the whole point to social media.

• 5:03Jocko Willink?

  And the other thing is, I get a lot of, you know, good feedback from people and also people are always like, oh, you inspire me. And you know what I say? You inspire me too. Cuz there's people that are out there grinding it out in their worlds, in their lives. And I say, man, the world is full of a bunch of people, not a bunch of lazy slackers that I'm used to. You get on the, you get on the Twitter, the Jocko troopers, man, they're getting after it. All of them are charging.

• 5:30Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 5:31Jocko Willink?

  They're not getting on there and saying, hey, I'm, I don't feel like I'm gonna get after it today. I think I'm gonna take, no. They're like, it's four oh seven and I'm in the game. And I go, damn, I gotta keep my game in check.

• 5:43Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I love, I love it when I see like, I'll see, uh, you're, cuz you always put the picture of your watch when you wake up?

• 5:49Jocko Willink?

  Yes, I do.

• 5:50Jody Mitic?

  And then I'll see like a retweet with like, you know, somebody else's watch and there's like a thousand watches with like your picture and there's right next to it. And I'm like, oh, it's six AM where I am. Oh, look at that. I love you, man, but uh, I ain't getting up at four. That's just me. I don't have any legs, so I got an excuse, right?

• 6:07Jocko Willink?

  I don't accept it. You can do what you want.

• 6:10Jody Mitic?

  But it's, I feel the same cuz it's like.

• 6:14Jody Mitic?

  It's it's a duty now.

• 6:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 6:16Jody Mitic?

  You we've put ourselves in a position where others turn to us. So now we gotta turn to them. And if we don't show up. Uh oh, who we letting down? I'm not. It's not that I'm letting me down.

• 6:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 6:28Jody Mitic?

  You know, it's that you're gonna let down all. What do you got like twenty five thousand Twitter followers or something? I think it's forty forty something. Yeah. Uh, that's forty thousand people that are waiting for your four AM.

• 6:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 6:40Jody Mitic?

  You know, that's that's good, but it keeps you keeps you on keeps you sharp, right? Keeps you on the days. I I say it. I got days where I'll look at my prosthetic legs and I'll be like, ah. The last thing I want to do is put those things on today. And then I'll think about everybody else that is in my position. And says, and I get it because I get the same thing, right? Oh, hey, man. Thanks for being who you are and. I'm thinking about them. Well, they're gonna get up. So who am I? You know, and I love when I front like when I following guys like you, though. Helps me go, I'm a lazy bitch. People say I get a lot done. Look at this guy. And then, oh, look at her. Look at that kid. Oh, man, I better step my game up.

• 7:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, a bunch of normal people. I'm a bunch of regular people with regular lives. Are doing what they can to get ahead.

• 7:28Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 7:28Jocko Willink?

  And dig in and make something happen. And and that does fire me up, you know, that does fire me up to see people.

• 7:34Jody Mitic?

  Feels good.

• 7:34Jocko Willink?

  Getting better.

• 7:35Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 7:36Jocko Willink?

  And.

• 7:37Jody Mitic?

  And wanting to.

• 7:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I just had someone today. This this woman came into the gym to my gym.

• 7:41Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 7:42Jocko Willink?

  And she said, they called me down. Oh, there's someone here to see you. I come down and it's a woman whose daughter is fired up for the podcast, fired up for the book. They actually they actually named it. They have a CrossFit gym. It's called CrossFit Overwatch.

• 7:58Jody Mitic?

  I like.

• 7:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 7:59Jody Mitic?

  It could be tingles.

• 8:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. So they.

• 8:01Jody Mitic?

  I want to go there right now.

• 8:02Jocko Willink?

  Because of obviously because of, you know, Overwatch as we talk about in in the book and. So yeah, here's this woman. She was like, to be honest with you. She was kinda tearing up a little bit like that fired up.

• 8:16Jody Mitic?

  How humbling is it when somebody feels like that around you?

• 8:18Jocko Willink?

  It's it's motivating to me.

• 8:21Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, no, but it's.

• 8:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 8:22Jody Mitic?

  Think that you can have that you like.

• 8:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 8:25Jody Mitic?

  In my case, me, the Jody Middick, the guy who just wanted to be a soldier. And somebody is that like fired up to meet me that they're shaking.

• 8:34Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 8:35Jody Mitic?

  Damn, well, I I gotta I gotta keep I gotta keep my game up.

• 8:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and it's weird too. And we actually talked about this on the podcast once is like. Don't put me on a pedestal as if I'm something great cuz I'm not, man. I'm not. I'm I'm a I'm weak and soft and do stupid things. You know what I mean? Don't put me on a pedestal. But put yourself on a pedestal, you know, put yourself on a pedestal and rise up yourself. Don't worry about me.

• 9:05Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 9:05Jocko Willink?

  Springboard off my back and go to a higher level. That's what I want to see happen. That's what I don't want. I don't want people to put me on a pedestal. I want them to stand on my shoulders and go higher and further than anything I could ever do. That's what I like.

• 9:18Jody Mitic?

  Did it? Did it take you? This is a personal question on my end. Did it take you a while to say? Like when somebody would say you inspire me and and thank you for being who you are. Did you accept that at first? Or did you have to tell them like, no, no, no, I don't. Like you just said, like, I'm nothing special. But how long did it take you before you would accept that compliment without without dismissing it?

• 9:43Jocko Willink?

  I literally went right. The first person that said that to me, I said, no, man, you inspire me. You know, because you're I guess what? I've had a great life. I've had a great life and I'm stoked, right? But look at you. You're saying I inspire you. Look at you inspire me. You're a single mom. With two or three jobs getting after it.

• 10:05Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 10:05Jocko Willink?

  And by getting after it, I mean waiting tables. Uh, working in as an admin assistant and then doing some babysitting at night.

• 10:13Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, and helping with homework and making lunches and and and.

• 10:18Jocko Willink?

  Right. Oh, so Jocko's really, really, no, actually you are.

• 10:21Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 10:22Jocko Willink?

  You're fired up.

• 10:22Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I just, I asked because it took me a while because I, I, I had a real hard time. With people looking at me like that and I actually would, I would be like dismissive of it at first. I'd be like, nah, nah, what are you doing? What are you talking about? I'm just, I'm nobody special. Like, don't, don't, don't say that. And I realized I was being a bit of a dick.

• 10:45Jody Mitic?

  By completely dismissing their feelings for, for, for the situation. And, and then it was until I, until I realized though, and then that's when I realized I went, oh, this is, this is real. These people actually do feel this and I'm, who am I to, to dismiss their feelings, you know? So I tried, tried, trying to use it to be stronger and realize like, you know, like this is real. Like people are looking up to me. So now I gotta live up to that role.

• 11:10Jocko Willink?

  I'll tell you another thing that I tell people when they say something like that to me. Uh, I tell them, look, there's many people that have done way more than me and sacrificed way more than me.

• 11:19Jody Mitic?

  One hundred percent.

• 11:20Jocko Willink?

  And the fact that you think that about me, the only reason you think that about me is because you know me, you know who I am because I stepped out of the darkness. And, and into the public view.

• 11:35Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 11:36Jocko Willink?

  But otherwise, there's a bunch of, a bunch of warriors. That they're never gonna know their name. They're never gonna be able to say, hey, you inspire me. So they're throwing that in my direction and I tell them, look, you don't, I don't inspire you. You get inspired by what I stand for and what I represent. Is thousands and thousands of servicemen, SEALs, yes, soldiers, yes, Marines, yes, all of them.

• 12:03Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:04Jocko Willink?

  That's what, that's what you're saying. And, and so on behalf of all of them. I get it, cuz you know what, those soldiers, those Marines, those SEALs, those guys in special operations, they inspire me too. And so I think there's, that's kind of the-

• 12:24Jody Mitic?

  So it's a give and take?

• 12:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 12:26Jody Mitic?

  Okay. Yeah, no, I, I had to ask you because I went through such a, with, with the legs and everything, I was just trying to accept not having legs. Never mind that, I had a woman come up to me and say, uh, I had like, I had several actually, but this, this was like maybe the, the first, I think. And she said, "I lost a hundred pounds cuz of you."

• 12:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 12:44Jody Mitic?

  And I'm like, "First of all, you don't even look like you weigh a hundred pounds." And I'm like, "Huh?"

• 12:51Jody Mitic?

  What, what did I do? I'm just being me. And, and that was the one that really in my mind, like at that moment, I went, "Okay, there's, I gotta, I gotta reevaluate what's going on here."

• 13:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 13:00Jody Mitic?

  I'm, I can't just dismiss this as, "I'm just Jody Mitic anymore." Clearly, clearly there's something going on.

• 13:07Jocko Willink?

  Well, I think your story in particular strikes a real chord with people because you had to overcome some crazy adversity. And by the way, your adversity, while challenging, as you know well, there's guys with much more challenging adversity than you've had. Tenfold, a hundredfold. And so, you know, for me, it's a joke. For you, you at least get a sense. But you and me both know, and we've seen guys, and we know guys that have had it, like I said, infinitely worse than you.

• 13:39Jody Mitic?

  Kind of imaginable.

• 13:40Jocko Willink?

  Unimaginable. And so those guys that get up with their issues and press on and drive on, look to them for inspiration.

• 13:49Jody Mitic?

  Absolutely.

• 13:50Jocko Willink?

  Look right past me, look right past Jody, look at those guys who are doing what they're doing. And, and that to me is, is where inspiration comes from. And so I guess inspiration's around you everywhere.

• 14:02Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 14:03Jocko Willink?

  It really is. If you open your eyes to it, and you look at what other human beings do, it's, it's amazing.

• 14:10Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 14:11Jocko Willink?

  It's amazing.

• 14:11Jody Mitic?

  I love, I love it. I love humans. Humans are such, we're such a species that study, you know, like, so anyway, I, I know we wanted to get to the interwebs, but I wanted to have that discussion with you before we moved on because, uh, it was just important to me to hear that.

• 14:27Jocko Willink?

  The discussion?

• 14:28Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 14:29Jocko Willink?

  Has been had.

• 14:29Jody Mitic?

  Roger.

• 14:30Jocko Willink?

  And I think it's, yeah, I think it's, uh, I think it's awesome. I think it's awesome and- Yeah, like I said, I see why people are coming up and telling you that.

• 14:40Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 14:41Jocko Willink?

  I agree with them, actually.

• 14:43Jody Mitic?

  Well, thanks, buddy.

• 14:44Jocko Willink?

  Alright.

• 14:45Jody Mitic?

  You're gonna make me blush.

• 14:47Jocko Willink?

  We're gonna get to some questions from the interwebs now.

• 14:49Jody Mitic?

  Uh-oh. Okay, now I'm getting...

• 14:51Jocko Willink?

  Alright, here we go.

• 14:52Jody Mitic?

  Okay.

• 14:53Jocko Willink?

  Mental exercises to learn to control one's pulse and breathing in really stressful situations or when very nervous, what do you do?

• 15:04Jody Mitic?

  Mental exercises. So, we touched on this very briefly in the last episode, which was on the book, where I talk a little bit about sniper training.

• 15:20Jody Mitic?

  Um, visualization is probably your biggest tool, in my experience. Train, train the shit out of it, train, train, train, and when you think you've trained enough, keep training. But, when you're not training, think about it. Think about it. The more you think about it, become in tune with yourself. Okay, I'm gonna get a little spacey here, a little earthy.

• 15:48Jody Mitic?

  Just sit there.

• 15:51Jody Mitic?

  'Cause you know what you do when you're a sniper? You fucking sit there. You have a lot of time to yourself. You can't really talk, 'cause you got a job to do. And what you gotta do is you just gotta...

• 16:07Jody Mitic?

  Okay, I know my heart rate's gonna go up here, but I gotta do my best to make sure it doesn't overwhelm my motor functions. And you can control it pretty easily if you prepare yourself for that moment. But it's all about preparation, training, and visualization. Even, like...

• 16:29Jody Mitic?

  Even making the shot, you know, like Tim Kennedy was on here, right? And he talked about dry firing. Consider dry firing. That this is your dry firing for, for your, for controlling yourself.

• 16:42Jocko Willink?

  For your brain.

• 16:42Jody Mitic?

  For your brain, exactly. And.

• 16:44Jocko Willink?

  Dry fire your brain. I like that.

• 16:47Jody Mitic?

  And, and um, it only comes from experience. Now, I guess there's probably some exceptions to the rule out there that are just born to be cold blooded killers the second they get behind a barrel, but, but for me, it was, it was visualization and just preparing to accept the feelings that were coming. And also overriding them. Cause that, they could still be happening, but you can still control yourself with the right kind of preparation. And it's also a perishable skill, funny enough. Uh, I realized.

• 17:21Jody Mitic?

  I don't know if that answered the question, but.

• 17:23Jocko Willink?

  No, I think that's, I think that's good. And I think for me, one thing that I, that I know I do, and this is a, I guess it's, it may be considered a technique, but it's like the technique creates the solution. Let me explain this to you. One of the things that I do in stressful situations, there's something that I always try and do. And that is no matter what's going on, I try and remain calm in my voice. So when things are going crazy, I try and get on the radio and say, hey, we need two more people over here. Not, hey, we need two more people over here.

• 18:03Jody Mitic?

  Roger that.

• 18:03Jocko Willink?

  So if you're gonna talk in a calm, controlled voice, then you can't be breathing hard, you can't be excited, you can't get angry, you can't get frustrated. You have to lock all that up. And get it under control before you open your lips.

• 18:21Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 18:22Jocko Willink?

  And start saying something. And so I'm always very focused on, I am gonna sound calm, cool and collected when I open my mouth. That way, and when, and in doing that, the only way to make that happen is to do everything we just talked about. Control your breathing, control your pulse, control your emotions, get all those things under control. And then say, alright, we need two more guys down here immediately, now.

• 18:49Jocko Willink?

  And everybody goes, oh, okay, let's make this happen.

• 18:52Jody Mitic?

  And coming from you especially, you're the, in your, in your case, you're the boss. So if you're, if you're calm, cool and collected, that translates to your troopers.

• 19:03Jocko Willink?

  It absolutely does.

• 19:04Jody Mitic?

  So when we, and it would, for us as well, when we were doing Overwatch, you know, six is six, three, you move into your left.

• 19:12Jocko Willink?

  Where, where are they at? No, no, no, no, no, right. Think about what happens when you do that.

• 19:16Jody Mitic?

  So imagine if I went, who's six, they're on your left, they're on your left.

• 19:20Jocko Willink?

  Right, I'm freaking out.

• 19:21Jody Mitic?

  Uh, they would, it would all be, would be lost, but you're that, you're that voice. Cause we're over, snipers are Overwatch. We, they, the troops feel better when they know, okay, there's snipers doing Overwatch, okay, we can, we're gonna be okay.

• 19:33Jocko Willink?

  We're gonna be alright.

• 19:33Jody Mitic?

  So if I got on the radio and talked the same way, so, you know, nope, okay, yeah, adjust fire, four hundred meters north. You know, fire for effect, Roger that, you know, like you gotta, that's a good point. I never even thought of that.

• 19:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  I think airline pilots train that too, cause you know, when you hit the turbulence, and they're, oh, hey, guy, sorry about that turbulence, you know?

• 19:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, just go ahead and put your seatbelt back on.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:56Jocko Willink?

  Actually, if you hear Sully, the guy that landed on the river, he, he's like that.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:01Jocko Willink?

  Like, yeah, we're gonna have to bring it down.

• 20:02Speaker 02

  I think they, they have to teach them that because that's where people are so apprehensive is when they're in the plane.

• 20:09Jody Mitic?

  My favorite part about that is, uh, he's like, yeah, we'll, we'll be in the river. And the guy's like, uh, say again? We'll be in the Hudson, Roger out. And like the plane, it's like real time, you're watching the video and he's just like, yeah, yeah, we're in the river, we're in the river.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  It's a hell of a.

• 20:23Jody Mitic?

  What?

• 20:23Jocko Willink?

  And by controlling his voice, in order to control his voice, he's gotta control his breathing, he's gotta control his temper, he's gotta control his emotions. And so that's what I do. In those situations. And I'll tell you what, if I haven't, if I don't, if I'm not in a situation where I need to talk, I'll just talk to myself. Be like, okay, you know, just say that in my head.

• 20:42Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 20:42Jocko Willink?

  All right, what is the next movement you're gonna do?

• 20:44Jody Mitic?

  I know we're spending a lot of time on the first question, but that's what saved my life.

• 20:48Jocko Willink?

  Oh.

• 20:49Jody Mitic?

  Staying.

• 20:52Jody Mitic?

  If I had gone into shock, dude, I'd be dead, right? And I say it in the book, I say, I did my best to go into the zone. So I know I'm bleeding out and I know this and I know that, but

• 21:05Jody Mitic?

  in my mind, it was let the system do its job.

• 21:09Jody Mitic?

  Okay, everything's gonna be fine, Jody, it's okay. And I just, I just kept saying, talking to myself, you know, visualizing what, okay, so the chopper's gonna come in, you know, and I just visualized each step. And my, my, but the whole point to it was, I couldn't have my pulse, you know, jackhammer. Otherwise-

• 21:28Jocko Willink?

  More blood's lost.

• 21:29Jody Mitic?

  More blood lost. And then you're, and what happens, right? Blood gets sucked into your core when you go into shock. And, and that sucks it out of your brain, sucks it out of everywhere where you, where, you know, I, I needed to stay conscious, so.

• 21:41Jody Mitic?

  So anyway, long, long answer for one question, but this, this is also something, you know, you gotta learn. Practice, keep practicing it. You'll figure it out.

• 21:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and always, and we talk about this again all the time on the podcast, inoculate yourself to these stressful situations.

• 21:54Jody Mitic?

  That's right. Colonel Grossman, that's the guy's name.

• 21:57Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 21:58Jody Mitic?

  Stress inoculation.

• 21:59Jocko Willink?

  Yep. Inoculate yourself to the stress so that when you, you get used to it.

• 22:04Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 22:04Jocko Willink?

  The more stressful, I mean, training, going through training, man, they, they put all kinds of stresses at you.

• 22:10Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 22:10Jocko Willink?

  So that you learn to deal with it. And if you want to learn how to, that's your time to practice controlling all those things.

• 22:16Jody Mitic?

  Absolutely.

• 22:17Jocko Willink?

  And I'm not trying to go level seven zen Buddha on you all like, you need to get into the mind state to control your breathing. Like, no, it's a practical thing. It's a real thing. It's not a yoga thing. It's a practical, real thing of, hey, get, calm down.

• 22:32Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 22:32Jocko Willink?

  Take a deep breath, get yourself under control. Now it's time to talk and give clear, concise orders that are calm.

• 22:38Jody Mitic?

  Yeah. Or make that shot.

• 22:40Jocko Willink?

  Or crack one off if you're in the sniper zone.

• 22:43Jody Mitic?

  Whack a bad guy.

• 22:46Jocko Willink?

  All right.

• 22:49Jocko Willink?

  Next question.

• 22:52Jocko Willink?

  What does Jody think of the soldier first principle? In the Canadian Armed Forces, is expertise such as his being lost due to this?

• 23:04Jody Mitic?

  Oh, I think they're talking about the, um, universality of service, which means, uh, everyone must be able to deploy. So-

• 23:17Jody Mitic?

  I didn't realize what it meant until I lost my feet and instead in my mind, you know, this was something else. Okay, I can't deploy anymore, but I can go to the sniper's school and teach the next generation of snipers. Sure, but you're not gonna get promoted and this and that. No more, you know, like huh? I was supposed to get promoted to sergeant. Like, what are we talking about here? So, University of Service says if you are not deployable, you're not employable. And you can't be promoted and you can't get any courses and this, that and the other thing. So because of it, we lose a lot of corporate knowledge, right? So I would, like I said, I was a, what we call a master sniper, an advanced sniper. And that doesn't mean I get

• 23:58Jody Mitic?

  access to the, um, Canadian Temple of Sniper, snipered him to see the secret 13th scroll or anything. It just means I'm allowed to do the paperwork and hand out qualifications and stuff like that. Now, it is a very difficult qualification to achieve and they spent a lot of money getting me there. And that value is completely erased with my injuries.

• 24:22Jocko Willink?

  So soldier first is if you're not deployable?

• 24:25Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 24:26Jocko Willink?

  Then you're gonna get?

• 24:27Jody Mitic?

  You're unemployable. Yeah. So, under that system, you get however many years to recover from whatever your injury is. At that point, if you're not recovering or going to recover, they will then begin the process to release you from the military.

• 24:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's jacked up.

• 24:45Jody Mitic?

  They're convinced that it's required because of the size of our military, where my take is, I believe it the opposite. Because of the size of our military, you want guys like me doing the training, the guys with the experience, the guys who want to be there to train the guys and can't deploy for as long as possible. Now, I'm not saying put me in a spot and leave me there for 15 years to become a dinosaur. But allow me to pass on the knowledge I have and and and remain useful, right? But but they and they say you can for the for the limited number of years and they they offer these things that they call extensions and that.

• 25:28Jody Mitic?

  But you're not gonna get promoted, so forget about a better pension, you're not gonna do this and you're not gonna do that.

• 25:35Jody Mitic?

  And the dichotomy as the word that I I I never used to use that word as much. I used it as one of the few people use it, but not nearly as much as since I started listening to the Jocko podcast.

• 25:49Jody Mitic?

  The dichotomy of it is that.

• 25:52Jody Mitic?

  We our version of the Pentagon, I'm gonna get a lot of trouble for saying this, but there's a whole lot of people whose physical fitness probably keeps them from being able to do anything and they're not being they're not getting. They're not being booted? No, and it's one of those like open secrets. You know what I'm saying? And and I'm sorry if people get mad at me for that and stuff, but I'm willing to run half marathons and and and do CrossFit without legs and stuff like that and you still don't want to promote me or keep me? Well, I'm gonna point out a few issues with your system and I I don't blame the military, right?

• 26:34Jody Mitic?

  Like the military is a system, like we said, the big green machine will roll on with or without you. At some point, you gotta worry about you and that's at some point I just started worrying about more about me than about than about mommy, the big mommy military. And but then I, you know, when I look back over my shoulder every now and then I go, tell me that guy over there is deploying.

• 26:57Jody Mitic?

  Show me what show me his med med ship. How many pull ups can he do? Yeah, and so anyway, it's um, I believe it, I'm sure someone somewhere thinks it's a good idea, but I think the milit the Canadian forces should reexamine what it actually means. Cause it's very black and white. Yeah, that's. And there's no room for um, oh, well, okay, so here's an example, real quick example and we can move on. We used to have um. We're in no rush, Jody. We used to have a thing we called acting lacking. So you were acting as sergeant lacking qualification. And it would be a way to like promote guys that maybe can't quite get, you know, maybe they have an injury or something.

• 27:40Jody Mitic?

  And um, and they got rid of it as we went back into combat. Basically.

• 27:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 27:47Jody Mitic?

  So you had all these guys getting smashed in co- combat. Now getting told like, ah, yeah, we can't make an exception. So you can't get promoted. So I was one of them. I was on the cusp of being promoted sergeant, just had to come home. And do uh, what we call, it's called a small arms course. It makes you an expert in all small arms in the infantry. And how to train with them to train troopers. And then you get promoted sergeant. And when you learn some sergeant leadership stuff as well, but um. I was number one in my regiment to go do it. And when I got, after I got wounded, they're like, yeah, sorry, man. I'm like, well, can I just be acting lacking? So my pension is better? They're like, oh yeah, we don't do that anymore.

• 28:30Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, that's, I can see why. I mean, we're only in combat. Guys are getting smashed all the time. So why would you want to promote them and? But you know, like.

• 28:39Jody Mitic?

  The, the administrative side of the military can be very uh, heartless sometimes.

• 28:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 28:44Jody Mitic?

  And I remember be- when I was in San Antonio. Telling this to some medical colonel and she was like. Huh? She's like, I promoted a guy who was in a coma the other day. We don't, we don't give a shit down here.

• 28:56Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 28:57Jody Mitic?

  If you, if we think you deserve it, you get your promotion. Because we know it makes things better for you when you get out.

• 29:05Jody Mitic?

  So. Should I be? Bitter about not getting promoted? No, I'm, I'm, I'm over it, but.

• 29:11Jocko Willink?

  I'm bitter you didn't get promoted. How you like them apples?

• 29:14Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, thank you. But you know, at the same time, there's a lot of amazing people in a lot of. Uh, difficult spots in, of leadership. And you know, you, you gotta pick your battles too.

• 29:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 29:25Jody Mitic?

  Right? So anyway.

• 29:26Jocko Willink?

  Well, I'll tell you now. As you pointed out, that's really good, what you said about guys getting promoted that are in a coma. That's awesome. I can't speak to the whole military. I can say in the SEAL teams, we do an outstanding job of taking guys that get wounded. And as a matter of fact, one of my guys who was wounded real bad, Ryan Jobe, who was awesome, biggles, and he got shot in the face, got blinded, and he was like, "I'm staying in," he's telling me. "I'm staying in." I mean, he wanted to come back to Iraq before he found out he was blind. Then when he was blind, he still wanted to come back.

• 30:05Jocko Willink?

  But then, like, when we came home from deployment and everything, and, you know, he's blind, and he says, "Yeah, I want to stay in the teams." And I talked, I was friends with the admiral that was in charge of all the SEALs. And I said, "Hey, sir, I know this might sound crazy, but, you know, Ryan Jobe, he wants to stay in the teams and just keep being a team guy." And he's like, "We'll find a job for him."

• 30:35Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 30:36Jocko Willink?

  Which is awesome.

• 30:37Jody Mitic?

  It is awesome, but was he gonna get promoted?

• 30:40Jocko Willink?

  He would have, yeah, they would have found a job for him. And he actually ended up saying, "You know what?" Kind of came to the same conclusion that you made, which is like, "You know what? I can't do the actual job of being a SEAL." Now, he had tons of lessons he could have passed on, would have passed on, which would have been awesome. But he made a decision, "Hey, you know what? I'm gonna move on."

• 31:00Jody Mitic?

  Okay.

• 31:00Jocko Willink?

  And so he got out. So what would have happened? No, he would have stayed in. I would hope, you know, that was one admiral who was a great guy, who had a great attitude in supporting the teams. And that's one thing that that admiral always said to me. This is an admiral I worked for for about 13 months. I was the aide to the admiral in charge of all the SEALs. Outstanding guy. But one of the things that he would say during meetings, and, you know, all these politicians that you're talking about, all these administrative people that you're talking about, all the big bureaucracy that you're talking about. And he would ask them, they'd go through their big presentation about, "We're gonna cut this, we're gonna do that, we're gonna buy this, but we're not gonna buy that." And he'd say, "How does this affect the platoons?"

• 31:46Jocko Willink?

  Oh, like, cuz, cuz people would forget that the whole reason you're there, the whole reason any of that infrastructure, anything is there, is how does it support the platoons? How's it help the SEALs? How's it help the machine gunner? How's it help the sniper out there, the radioman? The guys that are actually doing the job that we have? And I say this to businesses sometimes, when I work with businesses, and I see that their infrastructures getting super big and they're starting to impose plans and restrictions. And I say, hey, remember what you're here for. You're here to support this guy that's on the manufacturing floor, or this guy that's out there selling, or this, this woman that's working with the patients, or whatever business it is.

• 32:30Jocko Willink?

  Because it's very easy to be in a leadership position and forget about what the ground troops are doing.

• 32:37Jody Mitic?

  No doubt.

• 32:39Jocko Willink?

  And that's a horrible thing. That's a horrible thing. And this thing that you're talking about, soldier first, which sounds to me like soldier last, cuz they don't wanna take care of the soldiers if they wanna do that, because there's nobody better to prepare soldiers for combat than soldiers that have been in combat.

• 32:54Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 32:55Jocko Willink?

  If I wanna learn sniper, you know who I wanna learn it from in Canada? Jody Middick. You know, I wanna learn it from someone that's like you. If I wanna learn how to patrol, I wanna learn it from someone like you. I don't wanna learn it from a guy that theoretically understands it.

• 33:09Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 33:10Jocko Willink?

  That's not the same thing. I want the real deal.

• 33:14Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, it, it's, it's a policy, again, they defend it, they think it's necessary. What are you gonna do? Big green machine just keeps on rolling.

• 33:26Jocko Willink?

  All right. This is a similar question to one we've already had, but I'm gonna do it again. How do you silence distraction, no matter how important, to achieve your number one priority?

• 33:46Jody Mitic?

  On on op. When I was still a sniper, I actually had a much easier time of this um. I'm I'm. I'm ADD in a lot of ways and uh. Whatever I want to focus on ADD doesn't mean that you can't focus on stuff. It just means like when the teacher tells you to focus on something, you're busy doing other stuff. And so. Right? It's not a deficit disorder. It's that I don't give a shit what you're trying to show me, but that right there, that's what I want to look at. So. I um, I had a way of just. I would like if I had to watch a crossroad.

• 34:26Jody Mitic?

  I watched that crossroad was my whole world and it wouldn't matter what was now. It doesn't mean I wasn't situationally aware. But I would watch that crossroad like my my life depended on it. Or somebody's life depended on it. Which. Which a lot of times it did and um. If I have another what I what I found actually, and this is one of the reasons why. Uh, I'm starting to meditate again. I'm seeing a therapist again. Um, I'm listening to. Jocko podcast and reading Extreme Ownership. Um, no, I'm being serious is that. I appreciate. In my civilian, post military, post wounded, post addiction.

• 35:11Jody Mitic?

  Um. Phase world. I've I've lost a little bit of my ability to to to to push out the input I don't want. I have a hard. I used to read a book a month at the at the minimum. And I'm not talking like a book. I'm talking like a book. You know that I showed you I had the thirty three laws of war. Uh, in my suitcase. I've been reading that for three months. And I'm maybe half done. I have a real hard time now. Um.

• 35:45Jody Mitic?

  Achieving that that zone of zero distraction. And I'm trying to get it back because it's really, I get a lot done. You know, I have, I have my, my politics, I have the book, I do keynote speeches. Um, I have my kids, um, I have all my hobbies, you know, I'm, I'm trying to support veterans, support charities that support veterans. And, uh, and I still get a lot done, but I could get so much more done if I could turn off some things in my mind sometimes. And I don't know what, what's happened or what if this is what an addict's brain is like now, or if it's just,

• 36:25Jody Mitic?

  I'm always seeking something. I get bored easily. That's part of the EDD. I've always had that. But when I found something and latched on to it, I used to be like, just, I was 100% focused until I became, you know, I got as much of that as I could, and then I would move on to the next thing. And, um,

• 36:48Jody Mitic?

  yeah, I, I gotta be honest, I've, I've visualization though, going back to the first question is one way that you can do it. And I've started meditating to get my mind back into that state. I used to do a lot of yoga and I used to do a lot of mindfulness. Uh, not training, I don't know what people could, now it's called mindfulness training. Back then I think it was just called reflection or something. I call it jujitsu. Yeah. Uh, well, when I'm done the bodybuilding show in November, I, I will start jujitsu. Oh, you, you might actually be starting jujitsu tomorrow, uh, my friend. Just don't hurt me.

• 37:27Jocko Willink?

  Doesn't hurt.

• 37:28Jody Mitic?

  Everyone I know who starts jujitsu hurts something. That's why I'm holding off, but, and I would, I will definitely come, let you, uh, ragdoll me, but uh, my point is that I've lost it and I'm probably the last guy to give you advice right now on how to lock out the world because I have to put on headphones and crank music to get through a workout. Right now, and I know this, I didn't know I'm detrimental in it and I and I and I'm aware of it and I'm trying to correct it. And uh, and it bugs the shit out of me, it really does. It makes me feel like less of a person.

• 38:04Jocko Willink?

  So let me tell you about a transition that I went through.

• 38:07Jody Mitic?

  Yes.

• 38:07Jocko Willink?

  Uh, first of all, before the war, uh, the military sent me to college. So I had to go to college and I, as I said early, or as I've said before, I was super focused when I went to college. I'd been in the SEAL teams for 10 years. I was a go getter. I was a hard charger. I was like, oh, you want me to read this book? Boom. I would sit down and just force myself to read it. And then got back to the SEAL teams. And like, like when I went to college, I literally read every single thing that I was assigned. And nobody does that in college. Nobody does that. I read every single page of every single thing I was assigned during college. That's ridiculous. It's almost a waste of time. It's almost embarrassing. Echo definitely thinks it's a waste of time.

• 38:50Jocko Willink?

  But, but it was because I just could just gr- lock my brain down and get it done.

• 38:55Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 38:55Jocko Willink?

  So then get back to the teams and in the teams, officer in the teams, you have a lot of administrative paperwork to do evaluations and after actions reports and all these things. And I would do the same thing. I'd just go in a lockdown mode and I put my brain on it and boom, I'd go through it. And just get it done. I would just be able to focus.

• 39:11Jody Mitic?

  So like each thing?

• 39:12Jocko Willink?

  Laser focus, laser focus.

• 39:14Jody Mitic?

  That report, done, gone, memo, gone. Report, done.

• 39:18Jocko Willink?

  Done. Okay. Okay, so I go to Iraq the first time, no big deal. I go to Iraq the second time. Do, you know, it's a much tougher deployment. It's, guys are getting wounded, guys, my guys are getting killed.

• 39:34Jocko Willink?

  And I come home and I get put into, uh, running the training and with running the training, all of a sudden, yeah, there's administrative requirements and there was administrative requirements overseas as well. And you know what we did? Locked them down and got them done. I get home and I remember the first time I got to do, I think it's evaluations, which in the military and the Navy anyways, doing evaluations is a real pain. It's a real big administrative task.

• 39:56Jody Mitic?

  Administration of, or evaluations of your troops.

• 39:58Jocko Willink?

  Evaluations of all the troops. So at this place I was at, running training, I had a hundred guys and every one of them is like a little mini term paper or something. It has to be perfect. It's in the person's military record forever. They're really stressful about it. And I used to have no problem just hammering those things out. So I get back from that deployment and I'm sitting down and you know, I start doing, I'm like, ah, this is stupid. This doesn't matter. I don't know why I'm doing this. How do I have to do that? Kind of started saying the same things that I would always brag on people for saying. Like this is stupid. Oh, now your men are stupid. You don't want to fill out the report and take care of your guys. You don't want to write a good evaluation.

• 40:34Jody Mitic?

  The rest of their career isn't worth your five minutes to write this?

• 40:38Jocko Willink?

  Okay, you know, so I, but I heard myself saying this.

• 40:41Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 40:42Jocko Willink?

  And what, and what, what the constant undertone of all this was that this stuff doesn't matter. Combat was what mattered. And, and when you get back from that situation where man, your buddies are getting killed, you're getting wounded, your friends are getting wounded. This piece of paper, it doesn't matter. And you say to yourself, I don't care about this.

• 41:09Jocko Willink?

  And at some point, and it didn't, it took me maybe two or three months. I did what I had to do to get by. But as I sit there and I looked at myself and I said, you know what?

• 41:25Jocko Willink?

  Combat doesn't matter anymore.

• 41:31Jocko Willink?

  You're not in it. You're not in it right now. This is now what matters.

• 41:36Jody Mitic?

  Your, your mind was still there.

• 41:38Jocko Willink?

  My mind was still there thinking that that was all that matters. And like I said on our last podcast, actually it's in the past and it doesn't matter anymore. So you know what you have to do? You have to be a man and you have to do your job now and this is what matters now. And that to me made a big transition for me and it, you know, I haven't even thought about this until, until you were talking about it because I remember what it was like to, to go from when I went to college and when I was, before I deployed Ramadi, I would just be so laser focused, be able to just burn through things. And then when I got back and it was not there and it was all because I thought, ah, this stuff doesn't matter.

• 42:19Jocko Willink?

  This doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. What matters, you know, there's guys getting killed overseas right now. That's what matters. And I had to say, you know what? No, that stuff doesn't matter right now. And you know, and also I was in charge of training and I said, what matters is doing this, getting guys trained to go overseas. And I became obsessed with that and slightly psychotic about getting guys ready for combat. I mean, I was.

• 42:41Jody Mitic?

  Preparing them for what they're about to go into.

• 42:44Jocko Willink?

  For what they're going into and you know, you could, I'm sure there were many SEALs that went through the training that I was overall in charge of and would. Attest to the fact that I was probably borderline psychopathic at that point, but I think that.

• 42:58Jody Mitic?

  That's who I want running my training. No offense dude, but I want a psycho running my combat training.

• 43:03Jocko Willink?

  Yup, yup. So I.

• 43:06Jody Mitic?

  But what?

• 43:07Jocko Willink?

  Go ahead.

• 43:08Jody Mitic?

  Okay. You were just gonna say you think.

• 43:09Jocko Willink?

  I think that telling yourself and recognizing to yourself, why are you trying to do this thing? Cause you're trying to do something because it does matter, right? It has to matter in some way, even if it's just. Filling out the paperwork to get your license from the DMV.

• 43:27Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:27Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that doesn't matter. Oh, actually, you know what? It does matter. You're gonna get arrested if you get pulled. You know, it's like, no, it does matter. These little things, these little stupid, meaningless tasks in life. They actually do matter. So you know what you do? You line them up and you freaking crush them. That's what you do. That's what you do. You line up these stupid, meaningless things and you crush them and you use them as an exercise in discipline. They become an exercise in discipline. Oh, this thing doesn't matter. Guess what? I'm going to crush it now. Bring it to me. Where's my DMV form? Watch me fill this out. That's what I'm gonna do. So maybe I turn like some little meaningless things into a personal competition of discipline, but maybe.

• 44:05Jody Mitic?

  How consistent are you making that happen though?

• 44:10Jocko Willink?

  This is, I'm, I'm

• 44:11Jody Mitic?

  I'm consistent.

• 44:12Jocko Willink?

  Let me tell you, so for, for instance, since we started the podcast, I, I have to read, you know, basically a book a week. And then once I read it, I've got to go back into it.

• 44:23Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, you do like a book report.

• 44:24Jocko Willink?

  And, and go back through it and say, and how is this going to flow together? What part? So I'm spending a lot of time on that right now. And I've been able to do it every time so far.

• 44:35Jody Mitic?

  Okay.

• 44:35Jocko Willink?

  Um, so I think my consistency is strong.

• 44:37Jody Mitic?

  Cause I've lost my ability to be consistent. And that's more, that's what's really bumming me out. Like when I, when I, your book isn't, I mean, it's thick, but I should have been able to read this in two or three solid days of reading.

• 44:52Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 44:53Jody Mitic?

  I told you how successful I was.

• 44:55Jocko Willink?

  Yes, not very.

• 44:56Jody Mitic?

  And that bugs the shit out of me. And I, it's a, it's a, it's a, uh, it's a fail, it's a, it's a.

• 45:07Jocko Willink?

  You know what though? I think this is.

• 45:08Jody Mitic?

  It's a failure on my part.

• 45:10Jocko Willink?

  I, I, I think that this is the same thing that we were talking about on the last podcast. And I think Echo said,

• 45:18Jocko Willink?

  when you say, oh, you know what? I'm not going to finish this book right now. It's, it, I don't really want to. It's sort of like when you say, oh, I'm not going to quit.

• 45:25Jody Mitic?

  No, it's not that I don't want to though.

• 45:26Jocko Willink?

  That's what I'm saying. You say, but I don't want to do it right now. I can push it off a little bit. You accept that. You accept that answer.

• 45:34Jody Mitic?

  Hmm.

• 45:36Jocko Willink?

  You accept that answer. The soldier?

• 45:40Jocko Willink?

  Jody?

• 45:40Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 45:41Jocko Willink?

  Wouldn't accept that answer. Would not.

• 45:44Jody Mitic?

  Do you self-talk?

• 45:46Jocko Willink?

  Not really. Not really. I'm not a guy that says, you know, I'm going to do this or I'm going to do that. I just do it.

• 45:53Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 45:53Jocko Willink?

  I just go and do whatever that thing is.

• 45:55Jody Mitic?

  I think cause you're, you kind of have become that. So it's more of like, I mean, put kind of crudely, that's habitual for you to just do it. You know, remember how, and it was, I think it was kind of funny where, where I use this example, like how you said, use it as an exercise of dis- discipline. So I, I said this example one time where.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  I was in line at the grocery store and I had um a twelve pack of beer.

• 46:18Jocko Willink?

  Do we have to relive this story right now?

• 46:21Speaker 02

  And I was standing in line, there was maybe three, four people in front of me. So I'm like, alright, it's gonna be a while for me to get up there. This beer is getting heavy.

• 46:27Jody Mitic?

  And you decided you were gonna hold the beer.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 46:30Jody Mitic?

  I remember this story.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, so exactly right, but it wasn't that, okay, and the reason I decided to hold the beer wasn't because that benefited me right then. It it was an exercise in mental toughness.

• 46:41Jody Mitic?

  But here's the create, okay, we're get, we're way off the question, but physical tasks, sure, no problem.

• 46:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:49Jody Mitic?

  Cause it's it's visceral, it's real, I can feel it. But to sit down and and and read the report on the sewer charges that are gonna be coming in on the tax report for the city next year.

• 47:02Jody Mitic?

  What's on, what's going on on Twitter?

• 47:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's kind of the same thing though, really.

• 47:06Jody Mitic?

  But I'm wondering, I'm wondering if my brain hasn't replaced the OxyContin with social media.

• 47:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:12Jody Mitic?

  Like I had to quit drinking because okay, we now we're way off the thing, but it the the hardcover came out last September. And

• 47:21Jocko Willink?

  The hardcover.

• 47:22Jody Mitic?

  I'm sorry, of Unflinching, uh, The Making of a Canadian Sniper by Jody Middick, printed by Simon and Schuster.

• 47:28Jocko Willink?

  Available on Amazon.

• 47:29Jody Mitic?

  Available on Amazon through JacoStore.com. Click the link to Amazon.

• 47:36Jody Mitic?

  But yeah, okay, yeah, I already said, I already said it, I already said it. So anyway. The hardcover came out.

• 47:42Jocko Willink?

  Quit drinking.

• 47:43Jody Mitic?

  I drank every day from the day it came up, that so we had four hundred and fifty people at the event. Uh, Kevin Newman, my buddy, who's who's a, he's a well-known news anchor in Canada. Does an interview with me on the stage and we get standing ovation, we go out, we celebrate, me, the president of the company, my editor. We we have a good good night the next day. If I wasn't having one drink, I was having ten. And that went from September to the new year. And I was getting fat and I, you know, I was sleeping in because I'm hungover and I'm not going to the gym and and I went, hang on. Wh- what's going on? Cause this is it, because I have my job as politician.

• 48:24Jody Mitic?

  I'm daddy, you know, I'm friend, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm advocate and then, you know, the the book is, it's a job, right? You know? Selling a book's a job, full-time job. I need nine days a week and thirty-six hours a day to do it. And so I had to make, that's one of the reasons why I decided to do the bodybuilding thing. Cause I'm like, well, you can't drink. And it'll be right till November, cause I need that. So I'm trying to figure out if my brain is looking for a new habit. Cause I was diagnosed before as like anti addictive. If that's even a real thing, but I had a doctor tell me once, he's like, you're pretty much. An anti addictive personality. Like you won't get addicted to stuff. And there I was addicted to OxyContin.

• 49:06Jody Mitic?

  Even though it's a physical thing more than a mental thing, but I still wouldn't trust me with a pill right now.

• 49:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 49:12Jody Mitic?

  Anyway, I think we got way off track, but I just.

• 49:15Jocko Willink?

  Again, and I don't know what your therapist is gonna tell you. I'm gonna tell you what Jocko would tell you though. These little things are things that you, I know. You know how to do them. You've done them your whole career in the military. You were watching a crossroad. And I know that might sound exciting to people that are out there that are thinking how crazy that must be. No, there's times where Jody was walking, watching a crossroad and there was nothing going on for four days.

• 49:40Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 49:41Jocko Willink?

  And he was watching that crossroad. And so you have that in you.

• 49:45Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 49:45Jocko Willink?

  You just gotta tell yourself that, you know what? This stuff now, this is what matters. And how are you gonna tell yourself that this is what matters? It's because this is how it connects to the strategic picture. You can't say that this matters because of what it is right in front of me. Just like when you're looking at the crossroads, you're not thinking, oh, this crossroads is important because the crossroads. Is important. No, the cra- the reason it's important is because you are supporting, keeping guys alive, which is gonna help a mission out, which is gonna help. The, the overall strategy win.

• 50:14Jody Mitic?

  Commander's intent.

• 50:15Jocko Willink?

  Commander's intent, the whole nine yards.

• 50:17Jody Mitic?

  Commander now.

• 50:18Jocko Willink?

  You are the commander and also what's your long-term mission? And that's like, kinda you just said it yourself, like, oh, I picked bodybuilding, cause I, there, you just gave yourself a mission.

• 50:25Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 50:25Jocko Willink?

  So what's your administrative mission? You know, Echo's made some big advances lately, cause he started freaking reading books.

• 50:31Jody Mitic?

  Nice.

• 50:32Jocko Willink?

  And he wasn't doing that before, but he, he got the long-term mission of like, you know what? I'm gonna learn as much as I possibly can. So you got a long-term mission with your constituents.

• 50:42Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 50:42Jocko Willink?

  To be the best. City councilman. And represent, so when they ask you a question, you're like, boom. That's kind of the core of psycho stuff that I would say is like, if anybody ever asked me a question. Like when I was going to college, I, if they asked me any question about any of the reading, I'm gonna know it. That's just a bizarre P, uh, what's that? OCD thing to be like, I'm gonna know everything.

• 51:05Jody Mitic?

  So you have four kids, you train every day.

• 51:10Jody Mitic?

  You get up at four in the morning. I gotta get up at four in the morning. That's it. That's my answer. Yeah. Sorry, sorry to riff on you guys on that, man. Like, I know you wanted to do the questions, but when that guy, when that, like, the, the, the first question was easy, because I'm like, oh, I'll just talk about what I used to do. And that one was like, well, if I was to try and answer right now, I'd be lying. I'd be a liar. And I can't, I, I have my moments still, don't get me wrong. I'll have moments where I'm like, this has to get done, and I'll fire through a speech, or I'll, I'll write a report, or whatever it is, and then I, and then I lose it. And it's like, ah, ah, fuck, it's gone.

• 51:44Jocko Willink?

  And that's actually re- uh, reinforcing what I just said. So when you have a near-term mission that you know what the outcome, you know what the result is, you know what the end state is, you know what the commander's intent is, like, hey, you got a speech in two days? Okay, now it's in one day? You can sit down and concentrate and get it done. Which where you've missed the connection now, is the connection between these menial tasks.

• 52:06Jody Mitic?

  Right, right.

• 52:06Jocko Willink?

  That don't mean anything, and how can I put them to a long-term strategic goal? And one of those long-term strategic goals you can put into place, if nothing else, is I'm gonna discipline my mind to do these menial tasks like a soldier.

• 52:22Jocko Willink?

  And that's pretty cool.

• 52:23Jody Mitic?

  Ooh. That's a t-shirt.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Yep, potentially.

• 52:27Jody Mitic?

  Thank you, Jocko. So whoever asked that question, uh, thank you for asking it. Although I went off and talked about me for the most of it.

• 52:34Jocko Willink?

  Speaking of tangents, Echo's gonna take it a little further out there.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  No, no, it's not a tangent. It's what you said, how you said that's what a soldier does. So that's like a little exercise in, and I did this bef- I did this in a couple of times.

• 52:45Jody Mitic?

  Okay.

• 52:46Speaker 02

  Like, one was how I quit drinking, was I figured out, and you can do this with your diet as well. I figured out that basically through all the, the stuff that I read, that you're wanting to eat junk food, or drink, or whatever, is your brain tricking you? Because it's built to, it's evolved for a certain environment, that, that environment doesn't work, isn't around anymore. Yeah. So now we're in an environment of abundance that has to do with dopamine. Anyway, I came to the conclusion that it's your brain falling for a trick. Your physiology of your brain falling for a trick makes you want this stuff.

• 53:18Jocko Willink?

  How he says, how Jocko says, that's not what a soldier would do. I had it in my mind, I'm not gonna fall for that trick. I'm not a sucker. That's not, you know, doing this is what suckers do. I'm not a sucker. This is just like self, talking to yourself. So I essentially shamed myself out of drinking.

• 53:37Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 53:38Jocko Willink?

  Just like he's doing the, basically the inverse into focusing, you know?

• 53:42Jody Mitic?

  I just remember like, I, I'm the guy that, we, in Kosovo, I quit smoking in a day. Because I couldn't run up the hill next to our camp. I said, well, obviously these things aren't good anymore. And I literally, just, I just, I even had a pack in my pocket for like a week. I was just like, oh yeah, okay, just throw those out. I want that guy back. And I'm in search. I think it's been 10 years since I was wounded. I think I'm gonna find him again. Probably on the stage for this bodybuilding thing or something, but.

• 54:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 54:12Jody Mitic?

  I just, I just couldn't answer that question without talking about that, because I don't, I wouldn't have been truthful. At this point in my life.

• 54:19Jocko Willink?

  And that's what's cool is maybe that question right there, was something that is forcing you to face that. I mean, you might have had it in the back of your mind, but now you're going, you know what? I can't answer that honestly, because I'm not there right now.

• 54:30Jody Mitic?

  I'm not.

• 54:30Jocko Willink?

  But I'm gonna get back there real quick.

• 54:32Jody Mitic?

  I have my moments.

• 54:33Jocko Willink?

  So stand by, people.

• 54:34Jody Mitic?

  Stand by.

• 54:35Jocko Willink?

  Soldiers coming back online.

• 54:38Jody Mitic?

  Reboot, Jody 3.0.

• 54:41Jocko Willink?

  Alright, next question.

• 54:45Jocko Willink?

  Th- this is, I'll just read it. How you prepared mentally, what kind of discipline you had, routines in and out of battle?

• 54:55Jody Mitic?

  How I prepared mentally? Routines, in and out of battle?

• 55:01Jocko Willink?

  Yep. What kind of discipline you had, and routines in and out of battle?

• 55:11Jody Mitic?

  I'm gonna fall back on

• 55:15Jody Mitic?

  mental routine, I think is probably your, your, your biggest. Cause the physical one is easy, okay? You come back. So battle doesn't mean, you know, you're in gunfights all the time, you know, like, like we say, if we're standing still, we're patrolling, right? You know, it's just a static patrol. So, you know, you gotta make sure your gear is good, you gotta make, you know, are your batteries changed, right? You got, like, there's always the checklist, checklist, checklist, checklist. As a leader, it actually makes it easier, I found, because now I have a reason to check their stuff and check that their routine, so my routine stayed solid, right? Cause I had other guys I had to worry about.

• 55:56Jody Mitic?

  Um, so rest is a big one. I, I used to have to order my guys to, to go to ground. Cause they were so, cause there's only three of us. And I used to, my Barry especially, I'd be like, Barry, you need to be useful. I need you to sleep. So my routine was like, make sure enough rest. Make sure, cause you know that, the saying, mission before man?

• 56:19Jody Mitic?

  Sure, except when the man is the mission. So I need my man to be good.

• 56:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, if you abuse your man too much, you won't accomplish the mission.

• 56:27Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, like, you know, you, you know, you know, the sacrifice the body, well, let's wait, let's think about that.

• 56:33Jocko Willink?

  Cause the body is what needs to get this thing done.

• 56:35Jody Mitic?

  There's only three of us. And in our, you know, if you're a sniper, you're, you might be alone, you might be with one or two other guys. I can't afford to have a guy run headfirst through a doorway to get through it. Because I need him to be useful after. You know, if you have a platoon, sure, you sacrifice Smith, he runs through the door. Hey, okay, you got 29 more guys, I can go through the door. Um, so my routine was always like, you know, make sure everything's topped up. Keep an eye out, you know, uh, do the, do the mental checklist and then visualize, visual, like. Out of battle, I would try to, you know, I'd be on my, I remember I'd lay on my bunk. And I'd have my, and I'd, I'd always end up with my right foot crossed over my left foot and my, and my,

• 57:19Jody Mitic?

  and my arms up here on my chest, and I'd have my head back. And I would be going, okay, so. Okay, we go down, you know, and if contact left and I would try to like, you know, visualize these things, you know, cause as the team leader, I had the radio and I was security cause my boys, when they're in position, you know, my spotter is spotting and my shooter is shooting. So like they're 12 o'clock.

• 57:43Jocko Willink?

  Uh huh.

• 57:44Jody Mitic?

  So I'm now

• 57:45Jocko Willink?

  Everything else.

• 57:45Jody Mitic?

  Everything, the rest of the clock for them and for myself. So I was constantly rehearsing mentally, what, what could happen? I'm calling in, I'm practicing a, a call for fire. I'm practicing and calling in an airstrike. I'm practicing a nine liner. I'm practicing, um, a, just a grit. What do you guys, do you guys use that?

• 58:07Jocko Willink?

  Well, is it nine line?

• 58:08Jody Mitic?

  For nine, nine line is a casualty evac.

• 58:11Jocko Willink?

  Uh, call for fire, nine line.

• 58:13Jody Mitic?

  Yeah. Um, no, no, but grit and like group range indication type of fire.

• 58:17Jocko Willink?

  Yep, yep.

• 58:18Jody Mitic?

  So my first, even with all the visualization, my first actual grit in a battle was

• 58:26Jody Mitic?

  It's supposed to be six, three, uh, three hundred by that tree. You know, all, you know, um, uh, for, for effect or at your own time or something like the calm, cool, collected voice. But, you know, the guy was like 40 meters away and it was like, and my sniper was actually looking over him, waving, he's like, I'm, I, you know, I'm looking at that stuff. And I was like, fuck it. And I just shot at myself, but,

• 58:54Jody Mitic?

  uh, but my point is that even with all that practice and visualization and training, you know, that was my first attempt.

• 59:01Jocko Willink?

  Uh huh.

• 59:02Jody Mitic?

  Um, so I was always just trying to make sure that my routine off, off the battlefield was putting my mind back, but in a controlled setting.

• 59:12Jocko Willink?

  Uh huh.

• 59:13Jody Mitic?

  You know, and, and all, and, and then also, like I said, make sure, okay, yeah. How much sleep did you get? Okay. Good, good, good. And that's the routine that, you know, the, you gotta get the guys to relax, especially like for me, I had to.

• 59:27Jody Mitic?

  I just had to make sure, cause I only had me and two other guys. I couldn't afford to lose one of them. Whether it was to exhaustion, or malnutrition, or dehydration, or sprained ankles, or whatever, you know, so I just, I just did my best to keep, keep that checklist going and. And visual, and I would encourage them to do the same. I'd be like, hey, what are you thinking about over there? Oh, you know, whatever. It'd be like, hey, what should you think about, uh, you know, remember when you may, like we're do, ma- making that shot? And you missed or whatever, like try and visualize, try and think about what you did, you know, there's a lot of steps that go into pulling the trigger. You know, and, and, um, and then, you know, just think about that. Think about how it happened and. Encourage that, you know, I'm, I'm a big fan of, um.

• 1:00:11Jody Mitic?

  Of meditation and yoga and all that stuff like. If any, like, I think in our side of the world, we've lost a lot of that stuff. And I know we tried to get it back and got people that do it are. Tree hugging, you know, uh, spandex wearing weirdos or whatever, but. Yoga and meditation and stuff like, that's all warrior culture from the past. You know, like Samurai meditate. You know, ain't warrior monks, uh, fasted and prayed, that's, that's just meditation. And, and they looked inside themselves a lot to try and, you know, Samurai's job was pretty tough.

• 1:00:51Jody Mitic?

  Call him a pussy for meditating. Make sure I'm there, so I can watch. And, and I, and I firmly believe that that. Type of stuff keeps you functional for when you hit the battlefield. You know, that self, you know, as Grossman calls it, the self-reflection, self-inoculation as well. So, that was my routine. It was just a constant rotation of thoughts and then, but the actions were always to. Prepare the, you know, the, the situation for what was coming. Does that make sense?

• 1:01:23Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, okay. The one, uh, one thing that I, that's actually a, like a really practical thing that I did.

• 1:01:32Jocko Willink?

  That and that is I had uh this is again, this is just like a real practical thing. I had two cots, right, slept in a cot, slept in one cot, slept in one cot, the other cot was all my gear. And it was just laid out, gun, body armor, you know, everything was right there. And when I, when I got dressed to go out, all that thing was empty. And so, never forgot anything. When I came back, everything went right back on the cot.

• 1:02:02Jody Mitic?

  Same spot.

• 1:02:03Jocko Willink?

  Same spot, everything squared away. So those, that to me was, and I, I figured that out really quickly, okay, just gonna, I don't want, ever want to forget anything. Here's what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna put everything that I need right here.

• 1:02:15Jody Mitic?

  So, that, I had, I, I didn't even think of it. Around my, you know how I said I would sit there?

• 1:02:20Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:20Jody Mitic?

  Right foot over the left?

• 1:02:21Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:02:22Jody Mitic?

  All around me because we had a cot, we had a cot, we didn't, we couldn't afford two, Canadian Army, okay, sorry man. Um, but around, I had, we all had two by fours around us because we were in like a, a fob we built ourselves. And each nail had its, so I had my, my chest rig, my rifle, uh, my ammo pouches and then, you know, like, and then all around. And but that was what I would, when I would go through my stuff, that's what I mean, like, I would hang it up, open up the pouch, okay, everything's there, close it. Next pouch, make sure, top up my mags, all that stuff, and I would make sure I'd make, get the guys to do the same thing.

• 1:02:56Jocko Willink?

  And when you're ready to go out on operation, all your nails are empty, that means you've got everything.

• 1:03:01Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, but the biggest thing with root, like, people, people call it routine and they think there's magic to it. Right, there's not, it's, it's just making sure you do the same thing over and over and over again. You know, as, as, as magical as Navy SEALs and snipers want to be, like, it's not really that, it's not that mystical, I guess. Um, it's a, it's just a lot of repetition. You know, the routine is that you repeat the same actions because that what's, that's what makes you good at them.

• 1:03:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and I was I was telling you when we were driving over here at some point, how we used to try and do everything.

• 1:03:36Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, when you would fire up the cars together?

• 1:03:38Jocko Willink?

  Five or six Humvees lined up for an operation, they'd all be lined up, ready to go. And then everyone would like get the word, it'd be like, load them up. And then you'd just see, everyone would just get in the zone, boom, you'd see everyone getting the vehicles. And then we'd start the vehicles at the same time. There's no reason to do that.

• 1:03:55Jody Mitic?

  No, but there is. That's a Pavlov's dog type thing.

• 1:03:58Jocko Willink?

  There's no, there's no definable reason why you would do that. But our deal was, you know, okay, starting up in three, two, one, start up. And then you hear all the vehicles start up at once, and it's just like, all those little things would, all those little disciplines would lend themselves to the team being more disciplined.

• 1:04:19Jody Mitic?

  Those ignition switches might as well have been the switch in each guy's mind.

• 1:04:23Jocko Willink?

  Yep, yep.

• 1:04:24Jody Mitic?

  As the, as that vehicle is starting, everyone's brain is going to into combat mode.

• 1:04:30Jocko Willink?

  And we're together.

• 1:04:31Jody Mitic?

  At the same time.

• 1:04:32Jocko Willink?

  We're synchronized from the word go, when that happens.

• 1:04:35Jody Mitic?

  I love it. When you told me that, that was, I was like, yeah, that'd be the most badass thing to watch. Bunch of Navy, can you imagine? Bunch of Navy SEALs load up and they have vehicles all start at the same time. I'd run. I'd be like, I'm not fucking with these guys, I'm out of here.

• 1:04:46Jocko Willink?

  It was, it was an awesome sight when my guys, when I was a task leader commander, you know, I'd be sitting on bases, guys were rolling out. And I'd stand out there and salute them like, just like old school, right? But, and it's, you know, it was, uh.

• 1:05:00Jody Mitic?

  And they, I bet, and they loved you for it.

• 1:05:01Jocko Willink?

  I love those guys, but the, the.

• 1:05:08Jocko Willink?

  Those guys, I mean, every time you rolled out in the streets of Ramadi, there was a decent chance you were getting blown up. There was a, dude, gunfight was almost guaranteed to happen, but the guys getting blown up.

• 1:05:20Jody Mitic?

  IEDs was a real issue for you guys, eh?

• 1:05:23Jocko Willink?

  And, and I was thinking about this today. The IEDs, there was, we had statistically the most heavily IED road in all of Iraq. Was Route Michigan going from one end of the, one end of Ramadi to the other.

• 1:05:35Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:36Jocko Willink?

  And.

• 1:05:38Jocko Willink?

  There was IEDs all over the place. It was, I mean, it was ridiculous and we didn't hit any IEDs while we were there, which I was thinking about that today because I was thinking about my EOD contingent. We had two EOD guys and I never told them like, hey, we never had an IED. Thank you. Never told them that.

• 1:06:03Jody Mitic?

  So you credit them with that?

• 1:06:04Jocko Willink?

  I credit them with part of it.

• 1:06:06Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:07Jocko Willink?

  Part of the briefings that they gave, part of the, now there was some close calls, uh, lace platoon. And as a matter of fact, it's in the book when they, the EOD guys were watching the front door. They couldn't quite keep an eye on it, but they were, they did a really good inspection of it. When they came back out, they're like, something looks different. They went down there and there's a hundred and twenty millimeter mortar IED. That would have taken out, I don't know, four or five guys. Uh, there was a time where we went over, we went over an IED, well, uh, the point man navigator in the vehicles was like, hey, I think there's something suspicious. Actually got out of the vehicle to look at it. We're like, hmm, you know, looking back, what do you think about that decision-making process? You know, maybe that wasn't a good one.

• 1:06:51Jocko Willink?

  Anyways, we decided, oh, I don't think it is. We drove over it and about a half an hour later, the IED clearance team found a triple stack one twenty. So that's everybody in the vehicle dead. Um, if, if you hit it. Uh, so yeah, IEDs were massive threat. The number of guys that were killed and wounded by IEDs in Ramadi was ridiculous. There was a whole, there was a vehicle graveyard. You know, vehicles that had been blown up and then dragged back in with, I mean, it was, it was massive. I mean, I want to say fifty to a hundred vehicles are just piled up and including MRAPs, which are the mine resistant vehicles. Those things are in there broken in half. What kind of bomb do you got to put together to do that?

• 1:07:35Jody Mitic?

  We,

• 1:07:36Jocko Willink?

  moosh.

• 1:07:37Jody Mitic?

  We got real lucky and I know this sounds weird. My rotation, they had conventional mines. So any purse and any tank. And there was the occasional IED, but it was usually SV. Uh, and, uh, and in the city. SV means a suicide vehicle. So, um, our, uh, our regimental sergeant major and his driver were killed by a suicide vehicle borne IED. And I stepped on a landmine. If I'd stepped on an IED, I would have vaporized. But the rotation that ca- that replaced us, our sister battalion. That's when we, the, the, the intelligence says guys from Iraq started showing up.

• 1:08:20Jody Mitic?

  And, uh, we went from losing a tire, maybe having one guy get killed through a penetration in the hull or whatever. To, uh, we had a whole lav go up and seven out of the 10 guys in it were killed. And it was like, like, uh, like that's how quickly it escalated. And, uh, suddenly it was an issue for our, for our guys as well. Almost every vehicle we had hit a landmine on my tour. And that was the only time I was ever really scared over there. When I was walking or in a helicopter or even out on a four wheeler, no problem. But when I had to drive on the roads in a vehicle, that's when I was like, my, the pucker factor was the highest for me ever. IEDs, man, like the, and the guys that would go out every day and deal with that shit.

• 1:09:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the IED clearance guys.

• 1:09:07Jody Mitic?

  Fuck, man, like, my hat always came off to those guys.

• 1:09:11Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:09:11Jody Mitic?

  Like, talk about a nerve wracking job.

• 1:09:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:15Jody Mitic?

  Right?

• 1:09:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:16Jody Mitic?

  What's that movie with, uh?

• 1:09:21Jody Mitic?

  With the EOD guy?

• 1:09:22Jocko Willink?

  I don't know.

• 1:09:23Jody Mitic?

  Hurt Locker? Hurt Locker. I'm like, everybody who does that job says it's a total bullshit movie, but like, could you imagine though? That's your gig?

• 1:09:32Jocko Willink?

  Well, like, we had embedded EOD guys with us and SEALs usually have, uh, EOD, Navy EOD guys. They're basically like two guys. Our guys were like, they, they go through our training with us. They go through, they don't go through the basic training, the basic SEAL training, but they go through everything else.

• 1:09:46Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, they're like supporters.

• 1:09:48Jocko Willink?

  Well, once our guys, our guys were like other SEALs, you know, they, they were that good.

• 1:09:53Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:53Jocko Willink?

  And. But yeah, um, it's not, it's amazing. But, and the guys that are with us, they're with us and so they're not quite, it's their primary job for us, but it's not their primary job.

• 1:10:08Jody Mitic?

  Right, right.

• 1:10:09Jocko Willink?

  Whereas the guys that you're talking about, the guys that did route clearance.

• 1:10:14Jocko Willink?

  If anybody's listening to this podcast right now, if you did route clearance in Iraq or Afghanistan.

• 1:10:20Jody Mitic?

  Thank you.

• 1:10:21Jocko Willink?

  Jocko and Jody say, "Thank you." Cause you saved us so many times. Cause we drove down those roads all the time. My guys drove down those roads all the time and you found all those bombs that saved, saved our lives and, and so many lives.

• 1:10:35Jody Mitic?

  Kept the supplies rolling, kept, even kept the local populace safe.

• 1:10:39Jocko Willink?

  And you know how much credit and glory those guys get? None.

• 1:10:43Jody Mitic?

  Not a lot.

• 1:10:44Jocko Willink?

  None. And there was, in, in Ramadi, there would be the, the big vehicle, like a buffalo, you know buffalo? It's like a giant MRAP. You have to climb a ladder to get into it. So there'd be guys in there that would disable the bombs from inside. They had a big robotic arm and they would do that. But behind them would be a contingent of Marines in Humvees. And I'd say, "Oh yeah, we're just support." I'm like, "Oh, get some devil dogs." Marine Corps doesn't play around. They're like, "Oh, you need, you need support? Cool. We'll just get Humvees and roll behind it." But there's gonna be big bombs blowing up. Yeah, we're in the Marine Corps.

• 1:11:19Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:20Jocko Willink?

  No factor. We'll deal with it.

• 1:11:22Jody Mitic?

  I love Marines.

• 1:11:23Jocko Willink?

  Marine Corps is awesome.

• 1:11:25Jody Mitic?

  Anyway, questions from the interwebs.

• 1:11:27Jocko Willink?

  Questions from the interwebs.

• 1:11:33Jocko Willink?

  Can you tell us about, Jody, can you tell us about your wife, the medic that helped save you? Now, you kinda talked about this a little bit on the first podcast we did together.

• 1:11:46Jody Mitic?

  So, you know what? I'll, I'll tell you about her. So Alana is, um, so I say, her dad was in the army and he, he, he's from Ireland. He immigrated to Canada, joined the military and, uh, he was an airborne commando in, in Canada back in the day. Like that was pretty much, you know, that was our, one of our most fierce units. And he commanded the jump school, which is like, oh wow, that's, that's pretty badass. He did the American Ranger course in 68.

• 1:12:17Jocko Willink?

  Dang.

• 1:12:18Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:18Jocko Willink?

  Some old Vietnam Rangers were running.

• 1:12:20Jody Mitic?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:12:21Jocko Willink?

  Running the show.

• 1:12:21Jody Mitic?

  Not old. They were young then.

• 1:12:23Jocko Willink?

  I should've said that. The, these fresh combat experience Rangers were running the show. You know, they weren't playing around.

• 1:12:30Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, he got, uh, kicked in the spine with a steel toe boot.

• 1:12:34Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:34Jody Mitic?

  And, uh, finished with a broken, uh, vertebrae. And, uh, but, you know, so I always say she was drafted into the military at birth. And uh, cause she grew up on bases all over the world, Germany, um, uh, I think South America and stuff. Her, her dad ended up being in a like embassy security and stuff. Um, she became a medic at a high school. Um, I think she joined at seventeen as well. She's a little bit older than me. Um, and then, uh, she has more citations for saving civilians than she does for saving soldiers. She happens upon, she's like one of those, uh, angels, I guess, that just,

• 1:13:19Jody Mitic?

  one, a woman, so here's one, a woman had a heart attack behind the wheel, drove into a ditch, Alana was right behind her, drove, stopped her car, jumped in the car, pulled her out, dead. Alana brought her back to life. Right there at the side of the road, no equipment, anything like that. Just skill. Skill and determination, went and kept her alive until the paramedics showed up and took over. She's got a decoration for that, um. You know, she helped save my life.

• 1:13:51Jody Mitic?

  And, and, and a lot of my friends and, uh, one time we were driving and we came upon a scene. And we, uh, we were in my truck and Ayla was still a baby. Still in her baby seat and so I, I look up and I, and I see it, I think she, she might've been on her phone, I don't know what she was doing. And I see scatter of cars, car parts everywhere and one lone cop. Standing in the middle of it like a squirrel. And not because he's scared or anything, he's just, he's the only guy. Mm-hmm. He's the first on the scene and I look at it, I'm like, okay, something bad happened here. And, and I see one vehicle in the middle of it all and I went, Alana, they need you. And she went, huh?

• 1:14:36Jody Mitic?

  I said, you see that van? I, they need you. She jumped out, jumped headfirst through the, this van was crushed. And she went in there and there was a four-year-old little, three-year-old little girl. Uh, that had been hit with the car was T-boned. She stabilized the little girl's spine. Uh, kept her alive until the firemen showed up. Uh, they extracted, she, she was in command of the scene. They, they were like, they, they, I guess, I was doing my best to help the cop with traffic and, and stuff like this. And, uh, and deal with some of the other like minor injuries. And the fireman like, the first guy to put his head in, he's like, I, I kinda heard like, well, who is this? And then all I hear is Lana like, I need this and I need like, she's barking out all these orders and like,

• 1:15:20Jody Mitic?

  yeah, okay, hang on. So they're running, they're getting all this stuff. And they get the board and they put the little, the girl, the, the, the girl ended up passing away unfortunately, but, um, zero hesitation.

• 1:15:33Jody Mitic?

  That's, that's my wife. Fucking hero. And, uh, you know, she, uh, retired from the military last year and is going through, um, she's probably gonna get mad at me for saying this, but she's going through what a lot of soldiers go through, the transition.

• 1:15:50Jocko Willink?

  Oh, you mean the thing we've been talking about for all night and all last podcast?

• 1:15:55Jody Mitic?

  She just, she's just having a tough time figuring out who, who's Lana Gilmore if she's not a soldier. And she's an amazing mom, uh, she's an amazing wife and, um, she's an amazing person. It's just in her mind, she needs to find the new her. And, uh, you know, and I, and I'm trying to help her the best I can, but you know, I can only do so much and at some point, she'll figure it out. She's, she's coming around pretty good right now, I think. She's, she's starting to like volunteer a little bit here and like get out and do some stuff and, you know, I'm pretty, you know, I'm, I'm just proud of her, you know, for the most part.

• 1:16:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:31Jody Mitic?

  You know?

• 1:16:32Jocko Willink?

  That's one of the things that makes that transition so hard, um, is that, you know, before I was talking about like combat matters. And then beyond that, you're doing this thing. You know, for your wife, like she's in charge of saving people's lives, saving soldiers' lives. And that's gonna help this strategic mission. I mean, what, what, what is gonna replace that for her?

• 1:17:02Jocko Willink?

  And the answer, Alana, is nothing. Nothing's gonna replace that.

• 1:17:06Jody Mitic?

  Yep.

• 1:17:07Jocko Willink?

  But you know what? You don't need to replace it. You don't need to replace it. Uh, whole stock replace that thing. That's a beautiful, beautiful experience to have had in your life. But don't let it turn into a black hole, right? Like, like the black hole, the mass of a black hole is some insane number, just like the mass and the, and the power of this combat experience is the same thing. It's this super powerful experience, but don't let it suck all the other experiences away. Don't let it do that. Don't let it do that. So what's the, what's, what else? What matters now? We know what mattered in the past.

• 1:17:51Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 1:17:51Jocko Willink?

  But what matters now? That's the question. And there's so many things. I mean, you got two daughters. You got your dumb ass to take care of.

• 1:18:00Jody Mitic?

  And I am dumb. She'll tell ya.

• 1:18:04Jocko Willink?

  So what is it, what are the, what are those things that matters? And what's the next mission she's gonna find? Maybe she's gonna end up being a paramedic. Maybe she'll go, you know, who knows? Maybe she'll end up being an artist. Maybe she'll end up having her own podcast. Maybe she'll end up being a painter. I don't know. But what mattered in the past is awesome. But let's find out what matters now.

• 1:18:24Jody Mitic?

  Yep.

• 1:18:24Jocko Willink?

  And grab a hold of that.

• 1:18:26Jody Mitic?

  Baby, listen, listen to Jocko now.

• 1:18:30Jocko Willink?

  Hold on to that thing and let that thing grow.

• 1:18:33Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:33Jocko Willink?

  Let that thing grow. Let that thing feed off of the past and bring something new. Something bigger, something that happening, something that's happening now.

• 1:18:48Jody Mitic?

  But that's my wife.

• 1:18:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's awesome. You must be damn proud of her. I can see it on your face.

• 1:18:53Jody Mitic?

  Like, I don't have any decorations for saving people.

• 1:18:58Jocko Willink?

  Neither do I.

• 1:18:59Jody Mitic?

  You know, uh, and you know, and I think about. What I, what I saw, I saw a lot of destruction, but honestly, it was mostly the enemy. Uh, you know, that I caused and I'm like, it's easy to step over him like he doesn't look like me, doesn't talk like me, doesn't dress like me. I don't even know that, you know, I didn't know nothing about that guy, step over him, carry on. She rolls up. Uh, let's just take my case. She knows me. I'm Jody. I'm her buddy. We watched a family guy together. I used to, you know, her, her ex-husband and I used to, we're, we're buddies, you know, like, you know, all these things and. And she would, whenever she would roll up to a scene, it was to clean up the mess the enemy made of us.

• 1:19:42Jody Mitic?

  And she knew most, we're a tiny army, man. And our, our, our brig- brigade for us is like thirty-two hundred guys, maybe, maybe. Maybe twenty-five hundred in two thousand six. So she knew most of the guys that she put into body bags. Uh, or like in my case, she says, after they loaded me on the helicopter. And it flew away. She was just sad because she knew that what I was going home to. Cause of my injuries, right? She was like.

• 1:20:10Jocko Willink?

  She knew more about your future than you did.

• 1:20:13Jody Mitic?

  Exactly.

• 1:20:14Jocko Willink?

  She knew what a nightmare you were about to go through.

• 1:20:16Jody Mitic?

  She knew what I was and who I was and what I was now. Going to be like have to become and accept. And she says that, she said that in an interview, she'd never said that to me. And I read an interview she gave once and she said, yeah, I just, I, I was just devastated for him because of. What he was going to go home to. This big, tough, strong, proud guy had to go home without feet. She's just like, oh. And I guess she said something like, you know, if, if nobody else looks after him, I guess I gotta. God damn it, she did.

• 1:20:50Jody Mitic?

  Next question.

• 1:20:51Jocko Willink?

  Props to Alana.

• 1:20:53Jody Mitic?

  Love you, baby.

• 1:20:58Jocko Willink?

  Kind of a next question, which I paired these two together because this one relates to it. How do you deal with being away from family and loved ones?

• 1:21:09Jody Mitic?

  Oh, I'm uh, I'm odd. I always have been. I think this might be where I might be a little bit like you.

• 1:21:19Jody Mitic?

  Do you ever, like, I just, I don't really miss people.

• 1:21:26Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:21:27Jody Mitic?

  Does that make sense?

• 1:21:28Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:21:28Jody Mitic?

  You know what I'm saying, right? I know, I can see it. Okay, you know.

• 1:21:30Jocko Willink?

  I, I, I.

• 1:21:31Jody Mitic?

  I don't miss people because I know I'm gonna see them again. Even my dau- I love my daughters. Love my daughters and I'll walk in the house and they're better than puppies, right? They jump on me and I get daddy, daddy. It's my, the seven year old still does it. I get kisses, I get hugs, I get, where were you? You were gone so long. But like today, I haven't spoken to them. And I don't miss them. I know that they're out there. Like, but on a, on a, on a certain level, when I do get home, I'm real happy to be home.

• 1:22:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:02Jody Mitic?

  Like you were saying to me on the phone, like you just want to get home.

• 1:22:05Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:22:06Jody Mitic?

  But when I'm away from home.

• 1:22:08Jocko Willink?

  You're in the game.

• 1:22:10Jody Mitic?

  Yes, uh, especially for this, I guess, because I'm here to promote the book and I'm here to hang out with you guys. So I'm like, I'm looking forward. And it's like when my dad was crying in the parking lot before I went on my first mission ever. To me, it was like, wh- what's the big deal, dude? I'll be back in six months. And, and you know, my best, my best buddies. You know, the, the guys that I was happy didn't die in combat, I've talked to them every three to six months. You know, I just talked to the leader of that Green Bray team that I worked so much with. Just the other day, after two years of not actually speaking, you know, a couple of messages on Facebook and this.

• 1:22:51Jody Mitic?

  It's weird for me.

• 1:22:52Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I'm very similar. I don't, I don't feel the need to continually update people or talk to people. And my best example is a guy I went through SEAL training with, did three platoons with him at SEAL Team One, was in training, so I was with him at SEAL Team One. And he was my roommate that entire time. So eight years or so, we were, and we, we did everything together. Drank together, hung out together, everything we did. And I got, and then I got moved to Virginia Beach for two years, didn't talk to him, not one single time.

• 1:23:22Jody Mitic?

  Not a letter, not a phone call?

• 1:23:23Jocko Willink?

  Not a phone call, nothing. Came back, told him, I was like, hey, what's up, man? Oh, yeah. Uh, hey, uh, what, you want a burger with us? You know what I mean? It was just like nothing.

• 1:23:31Jody Mitic?

  Picked it right up?

• 1:23:31Jocko Willink?

  Picked it right up. And that's how I always feel. So, um, and I kinda do that with my family, at least, and, you know, I'm assuming that this person is a guy that's, um, thinking about being on deployment without his family. And so, yeah, and, and again, what I talked about earlier is I'm going to compartmentalize and say, and I'll tell you, this is,

• 1:23:55Jocko Willink?

  I didn't want to talk to my wife and kids every day at all when I was on deployment. I didn't want, you could do it. I mean, if you were, if you were on base, you could do it. I mean, for those of you that don't know overseas, most places overseas right now, you got internet, you got satellite phone, you can call home, you can, I did not want to do that with my wife and with my family.

• 1:24:17Jody Mitic?

  When was your first deployment?

• 1:24:19Jocko Willink?

  Uh, 2003, 2004.

• 1:24:20Jody Mitic?

  That was your first one ever?

• 1:24:22Jocko Willink?

  Oh, no, no, no. I, my first deployment was in 92, 93.

• 1:24:26Jody Mitic?

  Mine was, uh, Kosovo, 99.

• 1:24:30Jody Mitic?

  You called home on a, you had one phone.

• 1:24:33Jocko Willink?

  Hmm.

• 1:24:33Jody Mitic?

  It was seven second delay. And you got 15 minutes a week. Maybe it was four second delay. I just know like it sucked.

• 1:24:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:42Jody Mitic?

  There was no such thing as email. Email in 99, first of all, I didn't even have an email.

• 1:24:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:48Jody Mitic?

  And so there was one guy on base who was the geek. And he would go back to the main camp where they had the inter, interweb. And you had to give him your email and the password. And he would download your messages onto a CD ROM. Come back with it and print it off on the clerk's computer for you. I wonder if our type of thinking about it is a is a response from the fact that we just didn't have it. The first time and then by between ninety nine, two thousand six and two thousand six, I had a sat phone in my pocket for every. Everywhere I went, I could have called home all day, every day. But I didn't. Because I was like, well, first of all, it's a treat. And second of all, I got a lot of work to do and I can't be worrying about.

• 1:25:32Jody Mitic?

  A one time I was on the phone and a shot went over my head. Hey dad, I gotta go. Hey, you know, and he's and then I think uh um your guy, Chris Kyle. In his book, he talks about being on the phone and then a gunfight starts.

• 1:25:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:47Jody Mitic?

  And his wife listens to the gunfight because he forgot to hang up the phone. Are you kidding me?

• 1:25:53Jody Mitic?

  Putting your family through that? But I think maybe our our situation is that we came from the generation where that just wasn't an option anyway. So I would love to talk to some of the newer guys.

• 1:26:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:05Jody Mitic?

  About this about this subject.

• 1:26:07Jocko Willink?

  Um, I did two, I did three shipboard deployments as a SEAL, so we used to deploy on ships. And the first one I went on, we didn't have internet. So it was old school. You'd get mail. Written mail.

• 1:26:20Jody Mitic?

  But that was the norm.

• 1:26:21Jocko Willink?

  Once every thirty days or thirty five days, it'd be like mail call. Everyone would be all excited. But um, yeah, I think that that definitely conditions you to not be addicted. To having that and I don't think you're helping the home front either to call every day and say, I miss you so much. I can't wait to come home.

• 1:26:40Jody Mitic?

  I don't know if it helps the home front either.

• 1:26:42Jocko Willink?

  I think it actually is a little bit painful for the home front.

• 1:26:44Jody Mitic?

  I was talking to one of the wives the other day of some of our guys that are deployed.

• 1:26:49Jocko Willink?

  Don't get mad at me ladies.

• 1:26:52Jody Mitic?

  But I'm just saying. There's a lot of ladies that are deployed dudes nowadays, but. I was talking to a wife of a guy I know and she says, yeah, I haven't heard from so and so for. For like four days. I'm like huh? I'm like, he's probably on op like. You know what he does for a living? You you you know exactly what he does for a living. Ops can take a while. He's like, he's like, yeah, but. Usually he gets back to me and I'm like. Obviously he's on a long op, but they're conditioned now to always hear back from you.

• 1:27:23Jocko Willink?

  You know what? You you talked about this in your book, which is. Life's gonna go on.

• 1:27:27Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:28Jocko Willink?

  And I think that that's something too that will help. You know, if you're like for this guy, that's gonna be gone for a long time and how's he gonna deal with it? Accept the fact that life's gonna go on and just be cool with that. Things are gonna change. The things are gonna get remodeled. There's gonna be some new rugs in the house. It's gonna be a new piece of furniture.

• 1:27:46Jody Mitic?

  The fridge might break and she'll go get a new one.

• 1:27:49Jocko Willink?

  Exactly.

• 1:27:50Jody Mitic?

  And there's nothing you can do about it.

• 1:27:51Jocko Willink?

  And just be cool with it.

• 1:27:53Jody Mitic?

  Yeah. If you don't like the colors she picks, say, thanks for getting the new fridge, honey. Thanks for taking care of that. Cause I was busy doing protecting freedoms and democracy in the world.

• 1:28:03Jocko Willink?

  All right.

• 1:28:06Jocko Willink?

  Next one. What are your workout slash training methods?

• 1:28:12Jody Mitic?

  I usually make it up as I'm walking into the, no, okay. Um, right now, because I am bodybuilding and I'm going like, I'm doing, uh,

• 1:28:22Jocko Willink?

  You might be hearing from Echo here in a second. He's the big time bodybuilder.

• 1:28:26Jody Mitic?

  Do you bodybuild?

• 1:28:27Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:28:27Jody Mitic?

  No. Okay. So I've worked out since, you know, I was 16 with weights, right? But I always, so my first mission in Afghanistan, because I was a driver slash bodyguard and remember animal stack?

• 1:28:41Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:28:42Jody Mitic?

  The supplement, which was basically steroids?

• 1:28:44Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:28:45Jody Mitic?

  So we would order, we ordered a shit ton of animal stack and because we had a lot of downtime, we watched, um, you know, like 24 of the series on DVD and we worked out. I came home like bench, benching like whatever four plates aside is deadlifting like I was like huge. We looked, looked awesome.

• 1:29:05Jocko Willink?

  What did you weigh?

• 1:29:07Jody Mitic?

  Two 40 or something crazy like that. And, and then I tried to get behind my sniper rifle because I was not operating as a sniper, right? And I was like, oh God, okay. Couldn't, eh, too big. Tried, tried rucking, threw my rucksack on and tried to go up a hill. Oh my God. Oh my God. So I had to slim back down. I've realized I'm like, oh, being a meathead is not conducive to being a sniper. Um, so I always tried to tailor my body around being a sniper, especially after that. And, um, but now, uh, like I said, I'm gonna be 40 in January. It's gonna be 10 year anniversary getting blown up in January. And I wanted to quit drinking and I needed a new goal to move towards. So I said, I'm gonna get into bodybuilding. And if you know anything

• 1:29:52Jody Mitic?

  about bodybuilding, I don't want to look like Phil Heath.

• 1:29:56Jody Mitic?

  I want to look like Arnold when he was in the seventies, sixty, right? When they still looked human. So you picked a realistic goal. Yeah, something, something where I might not need supplementation from another country. Um, and not that there's anything wrong with it, whatever, man. To me,

• 1:30:14Jody Mitic?

  my, my view on that stuff is if it gets you to where you want to be and you're not hurting anybody, who cares? Right? It's your body, do whatever you want with it. Um, so, but, but for bodybuilding, you look good. So I'm doing the physique class, which means you wear board shorts and you don't necessarily have a routine, but they tell you how to pose. Like they like, I, we want to see your abs, we want to see your glutes, whatever, whatever. So you kind of just stand a certain way. And, uh, and I take direction well, right? I'll be on the parade square, basically. So you look good, but you're not really good for much when you're in that condition. So I want the picture of me with a six pack. I'll be forty, I'll have a glass of water, it'll all go away.

• 1:30:55Jody Mitic?

  Um, and then I'll celebrate the ten year anniversary of getting blown up and at least I'll know that I've got like somewhat of the type of body I used to have back. Okay, all that being said, my training now is being directed by my buddy Nick. And I do whatever he tells me. And right now it's

• 1:31:14Jody Mitic?

  chest and arms one day, back and shoulders another day, and legs another day. Can you squat? No. How, how do you? Which sucks because that was my favorite exercise. Of course, of course. Um, but there's got to be some like modified. I do a hack squat. Okay, there you go. You know, you know the machine? Yeah. So I recently discovered it. Like in the last six weeks, I, I discovered this machine hack squat. Um, before I was doing leg press and, uh, curls, I can't really do extensions because the, because the stumps are different length. Mm-hmm. And where the pad rests across my shins, it puts too much torque on my stumps. Got it.

• 1:31:56Jody Mitic?

  So, but then I found this hack squat thing and it's, it's made all the difference. So I, you know, slap as much weight on it as I can stand and, and I just squat. Cause it's almost like a squat.

• 1:32:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:07Jody Mitic?

  It's pretty close, but I'm supported. So my wife's, Alana's noticed a firmer ass.

• 1:32:13Jocko Willink?

  There you go.

• 1:32:13Jody Mitic?

  Things like that, you know, and so anyway, my, my, my routine is just that. And you know, the food is, I'm a big baby when it comes to food. Um, I've never eaten my vegetables and I don't care what Nick says or what my mommy used to say, I'm not gonna eat them. That's what my food eats. Um, you know, I'm a meat and potatoes guy, pretty much. Um, and that's about it.

• 1:32:35Jocko Willink?

  I'm the worst, um, eater of food, like Fear Factor, with Joe Rogan's old show. I would be the worst contestant. I would be such a, well, I might be able to pull it off because I've eaten some pretty gross things because I had to.

• 1:32:49Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 1:32:49Jocko Willink?

  But, um, like, I just don't like a lot of foods.

• 1:32:54Jody Mitic?

  I'm the same.

• 1:32:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:55Jody Mitic?

  And I don't care what anyone tells. Oh, come on, you just gotta try it. I'm not, I'm not trying it.

• 1:32:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I just smelled it. I, I wanna throw up.

• 1:33:01Jody Mitic?

  I just looked at it. It's something I don't want in my mouth. How about that? Okay. How about you just get me the steak? Without any spices or sauces on it like I asked for, and the plain potato I want next to it.

• 1:33:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:13Jody Mitic?

  And I'll throw some butter and some pepper on that bad boy.

• 1:33:16Jocko Willink?

  That sounds like a good.

• 1:33:17Jody Mitic?

  That's like, that's what food tastes like. And that's what I love. You know, Alana makes fun of me because my favorite ice cream is vanilla. I'm like, my life is exciting enough. I don't need no strawberry sprinkle bubble gum ice cream. Bring my vanilla. Maybe a brownie on the side.

• 1:33:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I don't know. I, I, I do go with the, uh, mint chocolate chip milkshake, but.

• 1:33:38Jody Mitic?

  Oh, really? Mint chocolate chip?

• 1:33:40Jocko Willink?

  What about what, what, so you just literally, so you're like steak and potatoes? Do you, are you, when you go to this bodybuilding thing, you're gonna have to drop a bunch of fat?

• 1:33:47Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, so I'm dropping the fat.

• 1:33:49Jocko Willink?

  What are you gonna, you gotta do that by diet, right?

• 1:33:51Jody Mitic?

  That's diet.

• 1:33:52Jocko Willink?

  And so what are you gonna do? What, do you know what Nick's gonna put you on for a program for that?

• 1:33:56Jody Mitic?

  We start that next week.

• 1:33:58Jocko Willink?

  You think he's gonna go like no carbs, all fat?

• 1:34:02Jody Mitic?

  He's, he's a proponent of the old school bodybuilding where you never wanna be in ketosis.

• 1:34:06Jocko Willink?

  Really?

• 1:34:08Jody Mitic?

  But he's a bodybuilder.

• 1:34:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:10Jody Mitic?

  I wanna get him to re-look at the physique stuff.

• 1:34:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:13Jody Mitic?

  Because, you know, if you read Arnold's new update, mo- modern book on bodybuilding, or Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding, which he rewrote in the nineties. They still went by the whole fuel the muscle with the carb thing, right? But they looked amazing. So they're like, they might have been on to something because you gotta think about-

• 1:34:34Jocko Willink?

  They were on the juice.

• 1:34:36Jody Mitic?

  Well, Arnold's, most of those guys, as they say, in the seventies, they weren't juicing.

• 1:34:40Jocko Willink?

  Actually, you're completely wrong. Those guys were absolutely juicing a hundred percent.

• 1:34:45Jody Mitic?

  In the seventies?

• 1:34:46Jocko Willink?

  In the seventies, absolutely. And it wasn't even-

• 1:34:48Jody Mitic?

  Not like today.

• 1:34:49Jocko Willink?

  Not like today, but Arnold was absolutely one hundred percent on steroids, as were all those guys back in the day. And they weren't illegal yet.

• 1:35:00Jody Mitic?

  But they also, but in the book, he says he didn't really, they didn't really know what they were, like, their effect. They knew they helped.

• 1:35:06Jocko Willink?

  Oh.

• 1:35:07Jody Mitic?

  But they didn't have it down to a science.

• 1:35:08Jocko Willink?

  You know what their effect was? Twenty-seven inch arms or whatever? Yeah, they didn't have it to a science, but they were ta- they were absolutely a hundred percent on the sauce.

• 1:35:17Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 1:35:17Jocko Willink?

  Um, and it wasn't illegal at the time.

• 1:35:20Jody Mitic?

  No, that, yeah, that's right. Yeah.

• 1:35:21Jocko Willink?

  So that might be where that idea comes from of, hey, they weren't on anything. They were absolutely in on, on stuff.

• 1:35:29Jody Mitic?

  So, yeah, so Nick, Nick-

• 1:35:30Jocko Willink?

  Completely yoked.

• 1:35:31Jody Mitic?

  Nick, yeah, they, they did look pretty, pretty good.

• 1:35:33Jocko Willink?

  You said that earlier. They were like, oh, you don't wanna be natural like Schwarzenegger in the seventies.

• 1:35:38Jody Mitic?

  Well, they still looked human, is my point.

• 1:35:40Jocko Willink?

  They looked more human than they do now.

• 1:35:42Jody Mitic?

  Like, have you, did you, have you watched Generation Iron?

• 1:35:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I mean, the guys now are just mutants. Yeah.

• 1:35:47Jody Mitic?

  And that's great. Good for them. Amazing. But I, I can't, I need to lose weight to be on prosthetics. Like, I can't be putting on that kind of weight.

• 1:35:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:54Jody Mitic?

  So Nick's thing is, um, ketosis is bad because you risk losing muscle mass. And that's kinda counter to the whole bodybuilding thing. So-

• 1:36:05Speaker 02

  The transitional period, you do risk that. If, if you're not in ketosis. So there's a trend, and it varies from person to person. Some people, they go through, they switch over to ketosis right away.

• 1:36:16Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:16Speaker 02

  And, you know- The risk, you know, they don't, they don't lose out, but some guys, it takes weeks and yeah, you lose muscle mass.

• 1:36:23Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, like I'm not that big yet at all, but I mean, we're still, we got till November. And uh, as long as it's, you know, it'll probably be a protein heavy uh, with the normal carbs, rice and potato, sweet potato, stuff like that, like little bit of olive oil and coconut oil and stuff.

• 1:36:42Jocko Willink?

  You just go lots of fat, pretty good amount of protein.

• 1:36:46Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:46Jocko Willink?

  No carbohydrates.

• 1:36:48Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, so.

• 1:36:50Jody Mitic?

  But this is my thing, this is after the bodybuilding, yes. That's how I eat anyway.

• 1:36:54Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:36:55Jody Mitic?

  I eat, I do love me some pasta though. And Alan and I will crush a pizza. Like, oh yeah, that's our thing, Friday night, we get a pizza, we rent a movie on iTunes, you know.

• 1:37:06Jocko Willink?

  You gotta get the occasional pizza, it's understood, pizza tastes good.

• 1:37:10Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:37:11Jocko Willink?

  But occasional.

• 1:37:13Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, but my, my general rule for myself is that it's, it's usually a high protein, like low carb diet. And if, and I like to eat, like if I'm not eating, I, I like to be taking in like a shake or something like every three or four hours or.

• 1:37:28Jocko Willink?

  Have you tried intermittent fasting?

• 1:37:30Jody Mitic?

  Yes.

• 1:37:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, how do you like that?

• 1:37:32Jody Mitic?

  Um, it's okay, I don't mind it.

• 1:37:34Jocko Willink?

  I like it as far as convenience goes, that's a convenient diet. I'm not eating today, I'm gonna work more, yeah. And I, and I did a, I did a forty eight hour fast a little while ago, just out of randomness.

• 1:37:46Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:46Jocko Willink?

  Like one day I worked all day or traveled or something and I didn't eat and then the next morning I worked out right away and then I had a phone call and then I did something and I was like, dang, it's been twenty four hours. I'm just gonna throw forty eight on this thing. So I went forty eight, it was no factor.

• 1:37:59Jody Mitic?

  So you do zero, you have zero intake or you have a coffee or?

• 1:38:02Jocko Willink?

  No, I drank water.

• 1:38:03Jody Mitic?

  Just water?

• 1:38:03Jocko Willink?

  Drank water. And you know what? I did squats, rolled jujitsu both days. It was no factor.

• 1:38:08Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I did um, I'll do, I did a forty eight hour, but I had coffee.

• 1:38:15Jocko Willink?

  Did you feel alright?

• 1:38:16Jody Mitic?

  Oh, it's fine.

• 1:38:17Jocko Willink?

  I felt fine.

• 1:38:18Jody Mitic?

  I like, I had a little bit of tightness for a bit.

• 1:38:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:21Jody Mitic?

  But like, whatever, like in the stomach?

• 1:38:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and I'll tell you, once you read The Forgotten Highlander, or any of these books where I'm talking about these people that are just going months without food, or the people up in North Korea, eating, uh, what is it? Root and saltwater soup? That's your meal?

• 1:38:42Jody Mitic?

  God.

• 1:38:42Jocko Willink?

  Oh, we found some weeds out there.

• 1:38:44Jody Mitic?

  Do you ever have the dichotomy in your mind of, if I was a caveman, I'd be fine? But then you realize it's 2016 and why are you depriving yourself of something? Or why aren't you taking full advantage of the, of the technology available to you? Whether it's protein shakes or, or supplements like on it?

• 1:39:05Jocko Willink?

  I feel like-

• 1:39:05Jody Mitic?

  Like, you know what I mean?

• 1:39:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, I, I agree with you on those points, but a lot of people think that the benefits of 2016 are a Twinkie. You know?

• 1:39:16Jody Mitic?

  Oh, don't get, yeah, no.

• 1:39:18Jocko Willink?

  Or, you know, a bag of potato chips or whatever, and that's-

• 1:39:20Jody Mitic?

  I was picking my kids up from school yesterday, and I was sitting in the office waiting for them to come down. And then there's this young fella sitting over there by the, next to the principal's office, eating his lunch. I assume because he can't be trusted around other kids at lunch or something, I don't know what, what the deal is. And he pulled a Twinkie out of his lunch. I almost fell over. Who gives their kid a Twinkie at lunch?

• 1:39:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and it's funny because-

• 1:39:46Jody Mitic?

  That's supposed to be Christmas.

• 1:39:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but when we were kids- Maybe. When I was a kid, I don't know about you, when I was a kid, "Oh, you're thirsty? Here's a Coke." "Oh, you're still thirsty? Here's another Coke." "Oh, you're hungry? Potato chips."

• 1:39:57Jody Mitic?

  My mom would read the ingredients on stuff and be like, "Oh, there's way too much sugar in this shit."

• 1:40:01Jocko Willink?

  Oh my-

• 1:40:02Jody Mitic?

  I got Cocoa Puffs for my birthday.

• 1:40:04Jocko Willink?

  My parents, oh, I was, I was like-

• 1:40:05Jody Mitic?

  Rice Krispies and Corn Flakes the rest of the time.

• 1:40:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:08Jody Mitic?

  Thank you, Mom.

• 1:40:08Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I was Lucky Charms. I mean, we just ate, and it wasn't like my parents said, "Oh, this might be bad." That was just what people bought-

• 1:40:16Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:17Jocko Willink?

  -when I was a kid.

• 1:40:17Jody Mitic?

  No, my mom was on top of that stuff. And I have that too, like, there's sugar in like a loaf of bread now.

• 1:40:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:24Jody Mitic?

  I give my daughters a two slice sandwich.

• 1:40:29Jody Mitic?

  That's like twelve grams of sugar if they eat the whole thing. I'm like, why is there sugar in the bread?

• 1:40:33Jocko Willink?

  And and like I'll be, I'm not, I'm like an eighty twenty guy, whatever that, you know, the eighty percent, like eighty percent of the time. I eat pretty good. Twenty percent of the time, I'm getting after some crap, right?

• 1:40:46Jody Mitic?

  I'm a lot like that.

• 1:40:47Jocko Willink?

  Um, and most of the time it's because like the other day I was, I was doing, I was at a film, I was traveling. And it was, it wasn't the pretzel wrapped hot dogs that we are all so fond of. It was, uh, but. I was legit hungry and I knew I, I was getting back early enough in San Diego that I was gonna be able to get a workout and then train. So I had, you know, had like a milkshake and a double meat sandwich of some kind.

• 1:41:13Jody Mitic?

  Where, where?

• 1:41:14Jocko Willink?

  Some random place in the airport.

• 1:41:17Jody Mitic?

  Oh, the airport food. Oh, yeah, dog.

• 1:41:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. It was good.

• 1:41:22Jody Mitic?

  Milk, airport milkshakes.

• 1:41:23Jocko Willink?

  Ooh, milkshakes are tasty. Milkshakes are tasty.

• 1:41:29Jody Mitic?

  So do you make, do you make that kind of stuff at home though to try and trick yourself?

• 1:41:33Jocko Willink?

  Makes, what kind of stuff at home?

• 1:41:35Jody Mitic?

  So to trick myself into thinking I'm having a treat, right? I got, I get my Blendtec. I'll put coconut milk in, uh, sugar free, cause you gotta actually search for that one. You can't just, oh, mm, anyway, so, uh, put my coconut milk in, uh, I throw in a couple scoops of protein. I throw in a couple scoops of, uh, organic, sugar free peanut butter, which you gotta search out again. Did you know they take the peanut oil out of peanut butter now?

• 1:42:02Jocko Willink?

  It's insane. Why do they do that?

• 1:42:04Jody Mitic?

  They sell it off and then they put the vegetable oil in.

• 1:42:07Jocko Willink?

  Ah.

• 1:42:08Jody Mitic?

  So now you gotta search out real peanut butter. Thanks, thanks, world. Anyway. So I put in a couple scoops of real peanut butter that I get at the Bulk Barn and, um, and a cup, a scoop of glutamine. But, uh, when I, and then I ice it, right? And then I spin it up and it's kind of like a shake, like a milkshake.

• 1:42:26Jocko Willink?

  Send me the recipe if it tastes good.

• 1:42:27Jody Mitic?

  And I'll put a shot of espresso in often and it just, it makes me feel like I'm having a treat. And so I'm like, oh, that's my sugar tooth, uh, satisfied for the morning.

• 1:42:36Jocko Willink?

  I think I've said this before, my, my treat is, my treat that I give to myself is, uh, dark chocolate and by dark, I mean eighty-five percent. It's. It's almost bitter.

• 1:42:47Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:47Jocko Willink?

  And I dip it directly into coconut oil, the Onnit coconut oil. I dip it right in there and scoop that in and that is money.

• 1:42:55Jody Mitic?

  That sounds delicious.

• 1:42:56Jocko Willink?

  It's so good.

• 1:42:57Jody Mitic?

  I'm gonna try that.

• 1:42:58Jocko Willink?

  So good. And the other thing about, if you eat, if you and I, we like broke out some Hershey's bars here, milk chocolate. You take one bite, you want another bite immediately.

• 1:43:07Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:43:08Jocko Willink?

  You want another bite immediately.

• 1:43:09Jody Mitic?

  You don't, but you do.

• 1:43:10Jocko Willink?

  And you do it.

• 1:43:11Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, oh yeah.

• 1:43:12Jocko Willink?

  You take, you take a couple of squares of eighty-five percent chocolate. And it's like, it satisfies it. And it doesn't make you go, oh, that was good. And it, and it takes the, it gives you the satisfaction.

• 1:43:24Jody Mitic?

  It takes longer to eat, to eat the dark chocolate, I find as well. Don't you find that? It stays in your mouth longer, the taste.

• 1:43:31Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's just a little bit bitter.

• 1:43:33Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:33Jocko Willink?

  Get the dark choc-

• 1:43:34Jody Mitic?

  Coconut oil, that's genius.

• 1:43:36Jocko Willink?

  Makes it a little bit of, just makes it so glorious.

• 1:43:39Jody Mitic?

  How have I not heard this on your podcast before?

• 1:43:40Jocko Willink?

  I don't, I don't know if I've said that before.

• 1:43:41Jody Mitic?

  Why Onnit coconut oil, by the way? That, I love Onnit. Been using Onnit before it was called Onnit, but why their coconut oil? That's the one he got?

• 1:43:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's, it's the virgin coconut oil.

• 1:43:50Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:43:51Jocko Willink?

  It's really high quality coconut oil. Which is what I do. And actually, it's good to, in supporting Onnit, I actually do support this podcast.

• 1:44:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:03Jody Mitic?

  So, uh, whoever asked about nutrition, it's, um. Ah, you know, one thing I will-

• 1:44:09Jocko Willink?

  That was me that asked about nutrition.

• 1:44:11Jody Mitic?

  Wasn't that-

• 1:44:12Jocko Willink?

  No, the question was about working out. We kind of delved into-

• 1:44:14Jody Mitic?

  Oh.

• 1:44:15Jocko Willink?

  Nutrition.

• 1:44:16Jody Mitic?

  Okay, well, Jocko, um, the other thing, my guts got destroyed by the antibiotics in my recovery. And it took me figuring it out on my own, like, why was I constantly having, like, um, diarrhea? Why was I constantly not, like, just an upset stomach? And then I started reading, okay, what causes it? Do I have IBS or blah, blah, blah? Oh, no, I was on six months worth of of antibiotics. Killed everything in your gut. And then I'm had, I've had staph infections, like I had a year, one year where I had like four staph infections in my stumps in a row. And it just like, just ha, you know, it just hammers because I was getting sick and and like, so I'm like, what's wrong? And then I really, oh, okay, so now every morning I ta, like I keep a bottle of kombucha in the fridge.

• 1:45:01Jody Mitic?

  Every morning I just shake it up, take a swig. I have a probiotic pill that I take with that swig. And that's made a huge difference. And and I'm always seeking out different ways to keep the the the gut flora happy. You know, so like apple cider vinegar. Um, apple cider vinegar and kombucha and the probiotics, those three additions have made a huge difference. Uh, in my, in my system, like my immune system alone. And then I like, I just started jacking massive amounts of vitamin D, E and C into my body. Um, and then I've, I've kept a real close eye on, like so as a kid, uh, like, you know, when we were eating lunch, I didn't want onions or mushrooms. Cause as a kid, I didn't like them.

• 1:45:45Jody Mitic?

  And I found out later as an adult, well, I'm actually slightly allergic to them. So whatever your body tells you, pay real close attention. You know, because nothing will screw with your gains or your workout routine more than feeling like shit. Right? And and so if you eat something and you feel like shit after, you know, pay attention to that. Because that can take a lot of energy away from your workout and just from your day. You know, like you go roll into work with a headache because you ate something that you're actually allergic to. Like that can really mess with your mood. So I pay super, that's, so one of the reasons why I'm such a basic eater is because I've learned that that's how I feel best. And I function best when I have minimum sub, like minimum, like additions to like,

• 1:46:30Jody Mitic?

  you know, when you, when you go to the get breakfast, right? Nothing better than bacon and eggs in the morning. Until they bring you your home fries and they're covered with paprika, Montreal spice shit all over them. And and I'm like, why would you do that to my potatoes? Potatoes are delicious with a little bit of bread, uh, butter and a and salt. Oh, they come like that.

• 1:46:55Jody Mitic?

  Can I have some without it? Ooh, yeah. Okay, you know what? Keep your potatoes. Um, because I've learned that if I have that go in my system, I'll spend a good half hour on the can. And that's time I don't can't afford, you know? So if anyone is like, you know, when you're, the big part of your routine is, is the fact that you have to have the energy and like, just not feel like shit when you, when you go into the gym.

• 1:47:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:20Jody Mitic?

  So that's why.

• 1:47:22Jocko Willink?

  By the way, just so everybody knows, the probiotics and there's, there's bacteria in your stomach that's supposed to be there. That's good for you.

• 1:47:30Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:30Jocko Willink?

  And that's what Jody's talking about. That's why he drinks kombucha and has the probiotic pill. Because it keeps those things alive. And what he was referring to earlier than that, the, when you take antibiotics,

• 1:47:42Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:43Jocko Willink?

  it actually kills all that bacteria. And then that makes your stomach not be able to digest.

• 1:47:47Jody Mitic?

  That's why they came out with the, um, the yogurt a few years ago. The, uh, whatever it was called. Yeah, and I don't know, there was that yogurt and they started selling it because it'll replenish your, your good flora.

• 1:48:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:02Jody Mitic?

  Whatever, whatever.

• 1:48:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, um.

• 1:48:07Jocko Willink?

  All right.

• 1:48:08Jody Mitic?

  A few more interwebs?

• 1:48:10Jocko Willink?

  We got one more question.

• 1:48:14Jocko Willink?

  Do you ever have doubts?

• 1:48:18Jocko Willink?

  If so, how do you handle them?

• 1:48:23Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I talked about the doubt I had answering that second question. Um.

• 1:48:32Jody Mitic?

  If you don't have any doubt, I'm gonna be real suspect of you as a person. So, do we all have doubts? Hey, hey folks, sorry to break it to you, Jocko occasionally has doubts. He'll never admit it, right? But doubts are part of being human. And if you're not doubting yourself, you're not challenging yourself either, I believe. This is, this is just what I think.

• 1:49:01Jody Mitic?

  So I try to approach my doubts head on unflinching. You know, did I have doubt this third time I got sent into battle school? Yeah, big time, but.

• 1:49:17Jody Mitic?

  Put on the best uniform, put on, you know, get in the best shape, polish your boots to the highest standard. Be prepared to get shit on and and and bulldog your way through. And smile while you're eating that shit sandwich, you know, like the doubt is.

• 1:49:38Jody Mitic?

  You ever heard the like, you ever talk to someone and they talk about what they want, they really want to be doing. Okay, so I have a, I have a buddy of mine, he's a cop, but he really wants to sell T-shirts.

• 1:49:49Jody Mitic?

  And he's like, ah, well, you know, I'm just waiting, I'm, there's, you know, there's a time, there's a time. He even made a T-shirt for me and he's probably gonna listen to this and he knows who he is. And, bro, I told you this at the time, he said, ah, yeah, let's sign a contract for 12 months. And this, I'm like, you know, I don't, um, six months tops. And, you know, if that, and he's like, why, what's the matter? I'm like, well, I just, I just don't think you're gonna. This is it, this is where you are. He's like, why? And I'm like, because you're not putting the effort, like, you're a cop, you're not a T-shirt seller. And he, he, he, you see, he's doubting himself to, to take that leap, you know? Did I have a doubt when I put my name in for the election? Hell, yeah, I did. I've never been a politician. I was a gunfighter. I was a sniper.

• 1:50:34Jody Mitic?

  But I deal with doubt by dealing with the situation.

• 1:50:40Jody Mitic?

  Does that make sense?

• 1:50:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:42Jody Mitic?

  Because I want to know that I can. A, get through this, through it, and if I fail, I fail, that's. Hey, man, I fail all the time. I failed, uh, reading your book. You know, I failed making to the airport in time yesterday, but.

• 1:50:58Jody Mitic?

  And I have doubt all the time, but I also have enough confidence in myself that I'm willing to try almost anything.

• 1:51:08Jody Mitic?

  And I don't know if that's really the question that was asked. But the answer is the same because fear is the thing that holds you back from almost anything in your life. Was I nervous when I put my hand up to volunteer to go on sniper course? Hell yeah, I was, but where did I want to be? I wanted to be on sniper course. Was I nervous the first time I was in charge of a sniper team going into combat? Uh huh, but guess what? There was nowhere else I wanted to be.

• 1:51:37Jody Mitic?

  Doubt is your doubt is your mind telling you, you know, to think about the things you need to think about anyway. Right? Like the doubt is there for a reason. It's the self-preservation mechanism. And you need to use that doubt to put the thoughts in your mind to visualize the successful outcome. Like we talked about earlier, visualization. You know, I I picture failure all the time and then I picture how will I deal with it? You know, doubt.

• 1:52:08Jody Mitic?

  Doubt to me is just a question to ponder. And then move on.

• 1:52:13Jody Mitic?

  You know? So that's that's how I do it.

• 1:52:18Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna say for me, I

• 1:52:22Jocko Willink?

  agree. The doubt is really how I know that I'm pushing myself into a zone that I'm not used to.

• 1:52:34Jocko Willink?

  But like the enemy.

• 1:52:39Jocko Willink?

  I respect my doubts. I'm not afraid of them, but I respect them. I'm gonna watch them.

• 1:52:48Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna listen to them.

• 1:52:52Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna understand my doubts.

• 1:52:57Jocko Willink?

  But I'm not gonna be afraid of them. And I'm gonna destroy them.

• 1:53:10Jocko Willink?

  I think that's about all we've got for tonight.

• 1:53:17Jocko Willink?

  Echo Charles, how can everybody just step on up and support this podcast?

• 1:53:27Speaker 02

  Well, there's a few ways. As we were talking about earlier, if you want to do some Amazon shopping, click for a book called Unflinching? Sure. Unflinching. And what we do, and this is no exception, is we, all the books that we talk about, we list them on jockopodcast.com. We have it listed, what kind of what they're about and what episode they're from and stuff like that. There's a link on there. You click on it, boom, you can buy it from right there.

• 1:53:52Jocko Willink?

  That's the paperback right there. Paperback.

• 1:53:54Jody Mitic?

  And also one of the coolest pictures ever taken of me.

• 1:53:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:57Jocko Willink?

  I was checking out your picture here and you have that little fun meter patch. You had that thing pegged. For those of you that don't know, that weren't in the military, that was one of the guys where different random patches. And some of them are, you know, proud historical patches of their unit. And some of them, and if you get this, if you order the hardcover, it looks like that, you can't see it. But on the softcover, you can see Jody's got the little, and everybody in the military knows what this is, little fun meter patch. And the fun meter is pegged.

• 1:54:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:26Jocko Willink?

  Meaning, oh, I'm having all kinds of fun here.

• 1:54:28Jody Mitic?

  This is a good time.

• 1:54:29Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome. There they are. Uh, paperback, hardcover. I like hardcover, me. That's what I do.

• 1:54:36Speaker 02

  It's good. But yeah, do that. We'll list that one, obviously. And get through Amazon. And then if you guys like the shirts, Discipline Equals Freedom, and the one with Jaco's head on it. I'll get you one too, by the way.

• 1:54:49Jody Mitic?

  Thanks, buddy.

• 1:54:50Speaker 02

  Get one of those if you want to support. And then of course, do your shopping at Onnit in the event of you wanting supplements that actually work. Because you got to watch out for supplements. Bodybuilding and stuff, a lot of supplements not regulated. They can put anything they want in them. And sell them to you. So get on it supplements, my opinion.

• 1:55:09Jocko Willink?

  On it dot com slash Jaco.

• 1:55:11Speaker 02

  Jaco, ten percent off.

• 1:55:13Jocko Willink?

  Get your Shroom Tech.

• 1:55:15Speaker 02

  I think depending on what you're doing, if you're doing high intensity sustained exercise Shroom Tech. Alpha brain, if you want to think better and Creole oil, if you want your joints to hold up with the passage of time.

• 1:55:27Jody Mitic?

  Do they still have the Shroom Tech Immune?

• 1:55:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:55:31Jocko Willink?

  They do.

• 1:55:31Jody Mitic?

  I love that one. I find that one good for when you're traveling.

• 1:55:34Speaker 02

  You were into Onnit even before.

• 1:55:36Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I forget what it was called, but Andre, because he was on Rogan, right, like years ago, before they started on it. And he had these two supplements, because Aubrey used to like to party. Take out from that statement, whatever you want, but that's what he, how he would put it. And he had a supplement called Roll On. I believe, and it was meant to like roll on to the next day. And you take it when you're hungover. And I started, I ordered it and because when, when I was very sluggish and all that from the stuff, from my addiction and just, you know, the whole immune. Like I was looking for anything. So anyway, that's why I started using it.

• 1:56:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, they, they have one, it's called New Mood. It's for like.

• 1:56:15Jody Mitic?

  Oh, I love New Mood. Love it.

• 1:56:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Man, they have some, a lot of good stuff for all kinds of stuff. And, um, yeah, man, so get on that. Jaco Bud or Jaco or on it dot com slash Jaco, ten percent off, boom.

• 1:56:28Jocko Willink?

  And if you want to hit up, if you want to, if you want to keep hearing anything from, from Jody, you can get him on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, he's all up in the game. At Jody Middick, Middick.

• 1:56:44Jody Mitic?

  M I T I C. And the Jody Middick podcast will start being posted on iTunes, if not today, then very shortly.

• 1:56:52Jocko Willink?

  That's right.

• 1:56:53Jody Mitic?

  And today being, what are we, Saturday? This goes up what?

• 1:56:56Jocko Willink?

  People are going to be listening this, you don't know when people are going to be listening to this.

• 1:56:59Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 1:56:59Jocko Willink?

  You can just tell them, listen, check out the Jody Middick.

• 1:57:02Jody Mitic?

  The Jody Middick podcast on iTunes.

• 1:57:06Jocko Willink?

  Be talking about all kinds of cool stuff on there. That's Jody. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink on all those things too. Jody, you got any closing words?

• 1:57:20Jody Mitic?

  Once again, uh, just thanks, everybody. You know, this is a real honor for me to share the same space as a someone as, as incredible as you, uh, Jocko and Echo. Meeting you has been a pleasure.

• 1:57:32Speaker 02

  High quest.

• 1:57:34Jody Mitic?

  It's, uh, my continued seek, you know, I, I have a thing I call it, I seek knowledge. You know, I'm seeking the knowledge to continue to grow as a human and learn, continue to learn who I am. And it's experiences like this that make it, that make it happen, make it possible. And just thanks, man. This is, this is, this has been awesome.

• 1:57:55Jocko Willink?

  Well, again, thanks for coming on yourself. And as I said before, most importantly, thank you for your service. The world is a better place for what you did in the army and for what you have done and are doing with your life. It's an inspiration to everybody that hears it and knows it. And everybody else that's out there listening. All those troopers, I tell you, go do the same thing. Go follow the example set by Jody Middick and so many other brave veterans and brave people

• 1:58:40Jocko Willink?

  in the world that face their demons. Whatever those demons are, they face them and overcome them. And make the world a better place by making themselves better people. So go out there, make yourself better. Look that demon in the eye and get after it. And until next time, this is Echo and Jody and Jocko. Out.