Pod Insights The School of Greatness Overcoming The Opinions of Others To Achieve Your Wildest Dreams w/ Imane “Pokimane” Anys EP 1443 About this episode https://lewishowes.com/mindset - Order a copy of my new book The Greatness Mindset today! Imane Anys, popularly known as Pokimane, a Moroccan-Canadian Twitch streamer and YouTuber. Anys discusses her journey from being a chemical engineering student to becoming a full-time streamer. She shares insights into her work ethic, family values, and the challenges of being a top-followed woman in a predominantly male streaming space. Pokimane talks about her evolution as a businessperson, how she selects sponsors and investors, and the importance of overcoming obstacles. We reflect on her goals and principles, emphasizing the impact of her streaming career on her life and the personal topics she covers on her YouTube channel. In this episode you will learn,How to deal with the hatersWhy compassion is the key to happinessThe difference between fitting in and belongingWho you should and shouldn’t take advice fromHow to set big dreams and make them a realityFor more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1443Tamera Mowry on Reinventing Yourself: EP 1189Evy Poumpouras on Commanding Authority: EP 1092 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX
Transcript 13,475 words · 2 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Lewis Howes? My friend, I am such a big believer that your mindset is everything. It can really dictate if your life has meaning, has value, and you feel fulfilled, or if you feel exhausted, drained, and like you're never going to be enough. Our brand new book, The Greatness Mindset, just hit the New York Times Bestseller back-to-back weeks. And I'm so excited to hear from so many of you who've bought the book, who've read it and finished it already, and are getting incredible results from the lessons in the book. If you haven't got a copy yet, you'll learn how to build a plan for greatness through powerful exercises and toolkits designed to propel your life forward. This is the book I wish I had when I was 20, struggling, trying to figure out life. 10 years ago, at 30, trying to figure out transitions in my life, and a book I'm glad
0:46 Lewis Howes? I have today for myself. Make sure to get a copy at lewishouse.com/2023mindset to get your copy today. Again, lewishouse.com/2023mindset to get a copy today. Also, the book is on Audible now, so you can get it on audiobook as well. And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode.
1:10 Speaker 01 I feel like compassion is the key to humanity. So cultivate that, treasure it, utilize it as much as you can. Put yourself in other people's shoes. Talk to other people all the time. No one is below or above anyone else. We all lead such cool, unique, individual lives, right? That's such a beautiful thing. And something that I find a little bit difficult about the internet is that sometimes it removes that humanity.
1:37 Lewis Howes? Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.
2:01 Lewis Howes? I'm excited to connect and learn more about you because you are a part of a world that I really don't know much about. You are one of the top streamers in the world and we were just talking about this off camera about how not everyone, but sometimes people that come on and watch streaming, they they experience loneliness, sadness, they feel like maybe misunderstood or people don't get them. And they find a way to connect with other streamers in things that they like, gaming and things like that. I'm curious, did you ever feel alone yourself growing up? And did you ever feel alone while you were streaming to millions of people?
2:42 Speaker 01 Well, two-fold questions, so two-fold answer. For starters, growing up,
2:48 Speaker 01 I feel like I was lucky in the sense that I'm a very extroverted person. I love to talk to people. I find great interest in other human beings. So it's very easy for me to talk to others. But I felt it was very, very difficult to feel like I belong anywhere.
3:03 Lewis Howes? Really?
3:04 Speaker 01 Absolutely. And I think that's something that I've struggled with frankly, most of my life.
3:11 Speaker 01 Even though I have good friends. So I think, you know, I learned a bit more about this sentiment year over year and I found that a large part of that, especially growing up, was due to my upbringing being very different than my friends because I immigrated to Canada at the age of four. Well, my family did brought me along. And I grew up in a more like cultural, religious, strict household than most of my friends did. So things like staying out late, sleepovers with boys, going on trips, those were not things that I was really allowed to do or were common practice for us. And so I'd find myself kind of going to school and having some friends
3:57 Speaker 01 and getting along, but not necessarily relating on a very deep or fundamental basis. And I also missed out on a lot of like the bonding experiences that they might have been able to have that I wasn't allowed to experience. And frankly, sometimes
4:15 Speaker 01 Being culturally different from people and not finding many people similar to you makes it hard. You want to fit in, but you, in a sense, will never be able to because no matter how hard you try to be like another group per se, you can never fully become that and you always end up being somewhere in the middle. Yes, so I also feel like my whole life, I've had this sentiment of being very indebted to my parents for the sacrifices that they've made and that's just not something that someone can really relate to, especially when like you're in middle school, you're in high school. You're like, what do you mean?
4:56 Speaker 01 Some kids are just like, what do you mean? Like, your whole life is about making your parents proud. Like, you just maybe don't get it. So, yeah, I think that's what personally made me feel lonely initially, but I found so much solace and like comfort in bonding over gaming with people online, actually. Yeah.
5:13 Lewis Howes? Now, fitting in and belonging. What's the difference for you in terms of fitting in versus belonging?
5:20 Speaker 01 Actually, that's, that's a great question. I think fitting in is being like socially acceptable. You know, it's like I walk and talk the part. I am easily digestible to others. But belonging is more so the people around me understand me to my core, to my soul.
5:44 Speaker 01 They get where I'm from. They understand like your decision making, your purpose in life. That's more so belonging. And I am lucky enough to have like built at this point in my life, some really deep friendships. Why, when I'm around these people, I feel like I belong. I think another part of that is there, there is such a like cultural and racial aspect to belonging. When people around you don't talk or look like you or come from a background like you, it's hard to feel like you belong.
6:15 Lewis Howes? Interesting. So how did you learn to? Fit in and belong in the streaming world. When maybe not everything in the streaming world or the gaming world also fits into your cultural values.
6:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, oh my, um, I think for all content creators, it's a bit of a trial and error process. And I think to some extent, we're all a little bit people pleasers, you know?
6:44 Lewis Howes? Especially if you're streaming, it's about getting eyeballs and attention and they like this, I need to do more of this.
6:49 Speaker 01 Exactly. It's a lot about like, it's just a feedback loop. And you want to make that feedback loop as positive as possible. Initially, at least, right? You're just like, oh, I think I'm doing the right thing.
7:01 Lewis Howes? Especially if you're trying to make it a career and a business and make money and survive.
7:05 Speaker 01 How do I optimize those positive reactions? But sometimes, somewhere along that path, you start thinking, wait, am I even enjoying what I'm doing? Is, am I losing touch of what I want to do versus what I know my audience wants me to do?
7:20 Lewis Howes? Did you ever feel that way?
7:21 Speaker 01 Of course.
7:22 Lewis Howes? Really?
7:22 Speaker 01 I, I'd assume most content creators do at some point. I do think luckily for a lot of my career, it was just so exciting that I didn't think too much about that until someday you burn out and you're like, hold up, let's, let's take it back a couple steps and reevaluate. And since then, I've just come to view it more so as, you need a, almost like a Venn diagram. What do people want from me? What do I want to do? Let's make sure I'm focusing on what I want to do and maybe that middle part are the things that you do the most.
7:57 Lewis Howes? Right. That's interesting. Yeah, I saw on your YouTube, you talked about kind of hitting a wall, taking a break, reevaluating your process. Did you feel like you really burnt out hard? Or was it more just a moment of like, okay, I need to reimagine what I'm doing and why I'm doing this?
8:12 Speaker 01 Probably both.
8:13 Lewis Howes? Really?
8:14 Speaker 01 I think, um. As privileged of a career and lifestyle as content creation is, I think especially when you're trying to optimize it, it's very like go, go, go. And I think most people experience burnout at some point. You kind of just push through it. I would say every year or two, you just try to push through it, find motivation somehow, try something new, whatever it is, right? But this time around, or the last time I felt this way, I realized like there was something deep within me that just yearned for something different.
8:48 Lewis Howes? Really?
8:48 Speaker 01 Yes.
8:49 Lewis Howes? So before, years ago, you were like, okay, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed and stressed and tired. And I keep showing up and a part of it's fun, but it's kind of draining. And you would push through. But this last time, you're like, I need to completely reinvent.
9:03 Speaker 01 And that was a very difficult decision to make. Even filming that video, I was like cheering up. Yes, so many aspects to go into, but.
9:15 Lewis Howes? Why was it so hard to make that decision?
9:19 Speaker 01 I think any time that you've, I mean, it's hard enough to find something that works for you, right? I feel like we spend our whole lives trying to figure out what's going to work for me. And then imagine finding that and a few years into it, you feel like it's not for you anymore, maybe. Or you feel like you just, your heart yearns for more. I feel like there's no other way for me to really summarize that sentiment. And I mean, there were just so many aspects to that decision, whether it's like financially or the people that rely on me. I decided to like pay for my parents' retirement.
10:04 Speaker 01 I work with so many people whose incomes rely on me. Anything, any change that I make to my business structure, even though as a person, you know, I may just look like a person making content. There are so many other people that I should consider. And my audience, right? Obviously, there are people that I want to make happy. And I feel like this constant desire to make people proud. And I'm like, what if this doesn't feel like the right choice for other people? But it was something I had to do for myself. And I just keep hoping that.
10:38 Speaker 01 As long as I try to optimize for my happiness and health, that will allow me to output the best stuff that I can over my whole lifetime, whatever that will end up being.
10:49 Lewis Howes? Right.
10:50 Speaker 01 Yeah.
10:51 Lewis Howes? So when you were doing, you know, before you made this decision, this was what, like last year or like the last?
10:55 Speaker 01 This was like eight months.
10:56 Lewis Howes? Eight months ago, yeah. So you took a pause, right? You took a break. And how long was that pause?
11:01 Speaker 01 That was about a month. So every like two years or so, I'm like, I'm gonna go insane. I mean, and I'm so lucky to be able to take a month off.
11:08 Lewis Howes? Sure, sure.
11:09 Speaker 01 Um, but yeah, it's because the rest of the year, it's like.
11:13 Lewis Howes? Now, before then, were you like streaming every day, a certain amount of hours or five days a week? Or what did that look like?
11:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, so um, I probably started off like six days a week, at least six hours.
11:24 Lewis Howes? Six hours a day?
11:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, which.
11:26 Lewis Howes? Streaming your content.
11:28 Speaker 01 That might sound weird to you. I know, being in front of like a computer, talking for six hours every day, yeah. But to me, I was like, that's not enough. And to, I even had a manager at some point who was like, no, you need to do like 10 plus hours every day.
11:41 Lewis Howes? Wow.
11:41 Speaker 01 And I was like, I kid you not, my brain will melt.
11:45 Lewis Howes? And so you're playing video games and you're talking for six hours a day?
11:49 Speaker 01 I know, that sounds like not much, but you feel like you have to be so on that whole time, talking to people.
11:54 Lewis Howes? Yeah, it's a lot of energy.
11:55 Speaker 01 And I do feel like every streamer is a bit different, you know? Some people are like, I'm just gonna chill and play my game. And I feel like maybe that's like more sustainable or easier to do even like 10, 12 hours in a day. But for me, I literally not stop talking the entire six hours. And I end up being pretty tired after, but then you wanna film some YouTube videos, you wanna take photos. And I'm someone who, honestly, out of everything, I love the business aspect of being a content creator. I've helped co-found an organization, I co-founded a management agency and consultation brand. I work with a clothing company. I just love doing all of these little things on the side. So it's many streams of income, many projects, many everything's all at once, which is fun.
12:40 Speaker 01 But sometimes it gets a little overwhelming too, yeah.
12:43 Lewis Howes? What are the the top three revenue streams that most streamers make from? Is it live streaming? Is it sponsorships and ads? Is it selling your own products? What else is there?
12:53 Speaker 01 I would say primarily. Streaming and when you stream you have like subscription revenue if people subscribe to that's like a fee every month and then you also have ad revenue and donations as well if people want to send in money. Yeah, but I feel like at some point in your career it's like you don't want to accept too much in donations. So I personally like capped mine.
13:17 Lewis Howes? Why don't you accept donations?
13:19 Speaker 01 Well, I'll cap it at like two or five dollars. I think that's my cap because it just started feeling wrong to take money from people. You know, when I was like a college student in debt,
13:29 Lewis Howes? like, oh, I was so grateful. Yeah, it was so nice and it made such a huge difference in my
13:34 Speaker 01 life. But once you get to a certain point in, again, like very grateful, very privileged, but like financial stability, you're like, the likelihood is that this person might need the money more than me. Like even twenty dollars, send me two instead, not twenty. Keep the rest for yourself. So it's like I keep that interaction without, I don't want to cause financial strain on anyone, obviously. So that, sponsorships for sure and probably like YouTube ad revenue.
14:03 Lewis Howes? Right. Those are the main revenue stream, the top, the top revenue streams for you. Got you.
14:08 Lewis Howes? Now, how did you deal with self-image and self-confidence when you're staring, maybe not looking at yourself the whole time, but you're on a screen and you can see part of yourself
14:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:21 Lewis Howes? for six hours a day, some people ten hours a day. You've got probably tens of thousands of comments coming through throughout this time.
14:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:29 Lewis Howes? I'm assuming tens of thousands of live viewers at different times, if not more, and money coming in and also positive comments and negative comments. How do you stick true to your family values while also staring at yourself and having to be, you know, a personal brand and put yourself together and be on camera and photos and, and play a character in a sense sometimes? To an audience, how do you manage that?
14:59 Speaker 01 That's a great question because I don't feel like a lot of people even consider that aspect of it. Obviously, it looks very fun. You play games, you make videos for a living, and it is really, really fun. But when you look at it from that angle, especially from that of a female streamer, you do get constant comments on your appearance. And there's simply no way to not process or be impacted by that mentally, right? Personally, I try to take as, I guess, reasonable and realistic of an approach as I can, which is like, if I know that this is a part of my day to day,
15:44 Speaker 01 I need to minimize the negative aspects, right? That means, one, having moderators who will remove like the really annoying or weird stuff.
15:54 Lewis Howes? Yeah, spammy stuff.
15:54 Speaker 01 Or the negative comments, even filtering out certain words is very, very helpful. And secondly, I try to spend so much time offline, or honestly, undoing the downsides of just being chronically online, frankly.
16:15 Lewis Howes? Really?
16:16 Speaker 01 And when those kinds of things get too hard, therapy. And frankly, the most difficult times in my career, or the times where I'm most unsure of myself, I try to ask myself like, if...
16:36 Speaker 01 I try to imagine myself like five or 10 years younger, watching me, how could I make this person proud?
16:42 Lewis Howes? Hmm, that's cool.
16:44 Speaker 01 How can I maybe positively influence them in the decisions that I make, the things that I do or say? What is something that could like enrich someone's soul? Because I think you can very easily just start like focusing entirely on like how you look or optimizing for that.
17:04 Speaker 01 But is that like the right message that I want to send to my female viewers or people who might not feel the best about themselves?
17:14 Speaker 01 So I try to be considerate of all those things.
17:15 Lewis Howes? That's good.
17:16 Speaker 01 Especially therapy.
17:18 Lewis Howes? What's the big? When did you start going to therapy? And what was the biggest lesson that you've learned in therapy?
17:24 Speaker 01 I actually feel like I started going almost as soon as I moved to LA.
17:29 Lewis Howes? Really?
17:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, as soon as I started feeling like, oh, this is just getting to be a lot.
17:36 Lewis Howes? What is? What's getting to be a lot?
17:38 Speaker 01 Oh, well, at the time, I lived with other content creators.
17:41 Lewis Howes? Oh, man, so it's nonstop all day, all day, all night, streaming, streaming, streaming.
17:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, it felt like I was in like a reality TV show.
17:49 Lewis Howes? You kind of were. An online reality show, live streaming.
17:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, kind of fun, but kind of mentally overwhelming. And I was like, how do I keep my sanity intact?
18:01 Speaker 01 And I just try to be very considerate of how I'm being influenced in a way, right? So I started going to therapy then, and it was really nice because it felt, eh, how do I say this? It felt like it was like, yeah, just keeping me sane a little bit, like a way to take care of my brain and calm it down. I think the thing that I learned, or the thing that comes off, that comes to mind when you ask me that question, is my current therapist now at one point told me like, hey, the rate that you're going at, I don't think there's any way for you to continue this lifestyle
18:43 Speaker 01 and this, like at this rate, without needing consistent therapy.
18:48 Lewis Howes? Really?
18:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:49 Lewis Howes? Wow.
18:51 Speaker 01 This was maybe like a year ago. And that was very helpful for me to realize, like I was getting so frustrated, so frustrated with some of the issues that I was
19:04 Speaker 01 experiencing, that I realized like for me to stop winding up in the same place or winding up in the same place, I need to make big changes.
19:13 Lewis Howes? Right.
19:13 Speaker 01 You want to see big change, make big changes, kind of thing.
19:15 Lewis Howes? What were the biggest frustrations you were facing?
19:18 Speaker 01 Some of the.
19:23 Speaker 01 Like, just some of the harassment you get online, or not just you in general. I'm very cognizant that if you put yourself out there, there's gonna be negativity, right?
19:33 Lewis Howes? You're opening yourself up to all types of comments.
19:36 Speaker 01 And honestly, I feel like I have pretty thick skin. I grew up with an older brother. We fought all the time. I've played video games my whole life. So like, I get it, right? But even all those things considered, being a female in a male-dominated space, there were just certain things that I was dealing with that were getting to be too much and too cyclical.
19:58 Lewis Howes? Really?
19:59 Speaker 01 It felt like every three to four months, it was like some crisis, some big thing that was like really impeding my life.
20:05 Lewis Howes? Really?
20:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:06 Lewis Howes? What were these, what types of crises? Is it like stalkers? Is this like?
20:10 Speaker 01 Sometimes, sometimes it's like, other content creators like having some sort of like hate campaign against you.
20:18 Lewis Howes? Really?
20:18 Speaker 01 Or like farming you for views.
20:20 Lewis Howes? Like a bully campaign almost.
20:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, I hate to say that. And like, you know, at the end of the day, I'm putting myself out there. But it became very evident that the way that I was being treated in the past was very different than my male counterparts.
20:38 Lewis Howes? Really?
20:38 Speaker 01 And that was very frustrating. Luckily, that has improved like year over year, I would say. But was difficult to deal with at certain points in my career. Yeah.
20:51 Lewis Howes? What advice do you have to young individuals watching or listening who struggle with criticism, rejection, the opinions of other people? How have you learned to overcome that? Those opinions? To not let it affect your self-value and self-worth?
21:10 Speaker 01 I think for starters, just accepting that statistically, there's gonna be a percent of people that don't like you. That's okay. That's life. Do you like everybody you've ever met? No, right? So don't worry about it too much, right? Some level of criticism, of distaste, is to be accepted and is completely normal. Secondly,
21:35 Speaker 01 Take advice from people that you look up to.
21:39 Speaker 01 Because, you know, some of the things people online say to me, I'm like, I'm sorry, you don't have the qualifications to comment on that.
21:45 Lewis Howes? Right.
21:45 Speaker 01 Frankly, which is kind of funny. Um, and lastly, this one is a bit more specific. Like when you're dealing with criticisms that are solely tied to something that is outside of your control, whether that's like how you look or your gender, your race, any of these things that are much more personal and frankly unfair. From my experience, it is best to find validation and reassurance from like-minded people. The support I got from other female streamers and women in the space is like the sole thing that kept me like pushing through. So that's so, so, so, so helpful.
22:25 Lewis Howes? That's right. What are the advantages and disadvantages that women have in the online streaming gaming space versus men? Advantages and disadvantages in the same space?
22:39 Speaker 01 I'd say, um, advantage is like, sometimes, I don't know if minority is the right word to use in this case, but I guess it is. Sometimes being a minority helps you almost like stand out in a way as a content creator. When there's something that differentiates you from everyone else, right? If you see a hundred people and they're kind of similar, or like even if they're like the same gender and then there's one girl, like, oh, at least like your eyes kind of drawn there, like this is different, right? So maybe that's an advantage, but it's also a disadvantage because then people will use that attribute to maybe pick on you or treat you differently. Um, yeah, that's the main thing.
23:20 Speaker 01 I mean, I don't know if you know much about gaming, but it's pretty well known that like there's a hint of misogyny here and there. I don't like to talk about it too much. It's like a bit of a tired topic, but it just kind of is what it is.
23:32 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
23:33 Speaker 01 Luckily, the, I feel like there is more variety in the gaming community year over year. The pandemic brought a lot of eyeballs into this industry a lot as well. So, yeah, it's improved a lot.
23:47 Lewis Howes? What is the?
23:50 Lewis Howes? The thing you love the most about being able to stream to an audience live?
23:55 Speaker 01 I love the interaction. I love talking to people. It's so fun. And getting like an insight into other people's lives.
24:04 Speaker 01 And I feel like there is no greater sense of fulfillment than having like a positive influence on someone else.
24:11 Lewis Howes? Yeah, that's good.
24:11 Speaker 01 Which might sound grandiose for like gaming, but you know when someone's like, "Oh, I'm so happy to see you live," or "You've kept me company during a tough time." That's so nice, right? And being someone who like, I've been a viewer of the same content creator that or type of content creator than I then became. I understand that position so well that it just feels really good.
24:35 Lewis Howes? Now, how long have you been doing this? For about
24:38 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
24:38 Lewis Howes? Almost 10 years or?
24:39 Speaker 01 Eight, nine years.
24:40 Lewis Howes? Eight, nine years. You've been in the kind of streaming space.
24:43 Speaker 01 Crazy.
24:45 Lewis Howes? Do you feel like after almost a decade of being in this space that you fit in or that you belong?
24:53 Speaker 01 Um, I think
24:56 Speaker 01 I would probably say both at this point. But mainly because it feels like I really carved out a space for myself. I like took years building my own little chair and I'm like, "I'm gonna sit here, okay? You can't do anything about it." And luckily then, you know, I got my little circle of friends and now I feel like safe and really like I belong in that.
25:20 Lewis Howes? You belong in that community, right? Maybe you fit into the whole community, but in your community you belong.
25:24 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:25 Lewis Howes? Um, what is it about you that makes your community love you the most?
25:31 Speaker 01 Oh, I feel, I don't know. Ask them. I would wanna say that I try to be as upbeat as I can. Just naturally, that's what I like to do.
25:44 Speaker 01 I feel like I've been very lucky to have had this career at a kind of pivotal time within streaming. And I feel weird saying this about myself, but it feels very nice when members in my community are like, oh, you inspire me, or you motivate me, or you make me feel like I can stream as a woman, as this, as that. You know what? You make me feel like it's okay. That is so, so kind.
26:13 Lewis Howes? You see comments come through constantly. Your, most of your community, I'm assuming is is in their teens and early twenties, is that correct? Most of the community?
26:21 Speaker 01 I would think so, yeah.
26:23 Lewis Howes? Why do you think so many people in their teens and early twenties struggle with mental health and motivation today?
26:30 Speaker 01 Honestly, I hate to say it as someone who profits from this industry, but I think social media has a big hand in that. I also think, though, that there are just a lot of modern day issues that feel very isolating or difficult for people to deal with.
26:53 Speaker 01 I think that off the top of my mind.
26:55 Lewis Howes? Do you feel like it's, do you feel like people are more isolated? That they don't have a purpose? Or they feel like they don't belong in their communities? That causes them to suffer mentally?
27:06 Speaker 01 All of the above. And the internet can be a great getaway. Like, even for me personally, when I was in high school, it felt like I had a bit of a double life. It's like, like Hannah Montana, I would go to high school. I was like part of the student council with all my friends. And I'd go home and I would only be online with like my online friends. And I felt like I bonded with so many people over gaming. People that I felt like I couldn't have those types of connections with my friends that I knew in real life.
27:35 Lewis Howes? Really?
27:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:36 Lewis Howes? So you had deeper connections online than in-life connections?
27:40 Speaker 01 I think so, yeah. But also, it's like, that's kind of when you connect the most with people.
27:46 Lewis Howes? Right.
27:46 Speaker 01 On your off time, experiencing things together. And gaming with someone is experiencing something together.
27:52 Lewis Howes? Bonding. You're like competing, you're going for a challenge, let's go!
27:54 Speaker 01 Absolutely. You have like the same hobby. Okay, the first game that I started streaming was called League of Legends. And during that time, like before it started blowing up, It was like anytime I met someone who also played, it was like, oh, you know, immediate connection. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Like a secret club. And so that sentiment is so, so nice. And I think we're also living in a day and age where all human beings are so multifaceted, and especially like the Gen Z's generation.
28:27 Speaker 01 Everybody is so unique and different, but sometimes you grow up either going to a school or in a city or in a household where you don't feel like every part of you is really accepted. And that leads to not feeling like you belong, isolation. And sometimes luckily you can get that sentiment online.
28:47 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
28:48 Speaker 01 But then sometimes being online too much can also hurt your mental health.
28:52 Lewis Howes? Right. It's a balance. Did you always feel like you were accepted at home?
28:56 Speaker 01 I always felt very loved. Yeah, and accepted, but just like, it was a little bit stricter and I just always felt like the most important thing was like following the rules, making my parents proud, go to, you know, get straight A's. Oh, my God. Yeah, such a nerd.
29:18 Lewis Howes? Go to college.
29:18 Speaker 01 Get straight A's, go to college, study engineering law, or become a doctor. Yeah.
29:25 Speaker 01 And like that, that was the path laid out for me. That's it.
29:28 Lewis Howes? So when you went to school and you studied, I think, chemical engineering? Right. And then you dropped out eventually?
29:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:34 Lewis Howes? Which is almost like a death to an immigrant's parents, right? It's like, I cannot believe, there's no other option than getting an amazing degree.
29:44 Speaker 01 And you know, for years after taking a break from school, I didn't call it dropping out at the time.
29:50 Lewis Howes? I want to pause.
29:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'd be making like six figures, maybe even seven at one point. And mom's like, so when are you gonna go finish your degree? I'm like, I'm making more than I would have made with my degree. Are you kidding me? So, yeah, it was like always that plan laid out for me. So I just grew up in that sense, like people pleasing for my parents and then people pleasing for audiences around the world. And I was just always thinking of like, what should I do? Do the quote unquote right thing? And it was only within the last like two years that I've I'm really trying to rewire my brain to think about like, what do I want to do?
30:29 Lewis Howes? All right.
30:30 Speaker 01 The wants instead of the shoulds. That's what my therapist said. He's like, you have a bad case of the shoulds. I was like, what do you mean? Stop thinking about what you should do. What do you want to do?
30:38 Lewis Howes? Yeah. How has that been a struggle to kind of break the rules of what your parents want, or what you feel like your community wants, and actually doing what you want?
30:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, absolutely. Especially because when you fall into that feedback loop of like, what do other people want of me? You get validation from that, right? Like, oh, I posted this thing and I, you know,
31:03 Lewis Howes? They loved it.
31:04 Speaker 01 Calculated it to be what they would like, and they liked it.
31:07 Lewis Howes? It worked.
31:07 Speaker 01 Right? And then maybe you post what you want.
31:10 Lewis Howes? And they don't like it.
31:11 Speaker 01 Not as much. And you're like craving that validation, you know?
31:17 Speaker 01 So it's for sure a part of the job that you need to manage so that you don't, because if you keep feeding that beast, oh, it gets bigger. But it is a part of the job as well.
31:27 Lewis Howes? How do you manage? How do you, how do you manage now dealing with ego and validation and also just feeling really good about you? Not doing something for ego or validation, but for you and also be able to impact people. How do you manage that?
31:43 Speaker 01 I, a lot of journaling. I've planned on my whole life. Um, so basically, and also, it's almost like I'm rehabilitating myself. Like, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy. I, I feel like I do that to myself. For example, instead of posting something and immediately looking at like, are people liking this? What are they commenting? How is it performing? Et cetera, et cetera. If I know it's something that I liked and that I feel good about, or I feel like it's going to reach and resonate with the right people, I just let it go. And I try to just forget about it. So I'm almost like training myself to not crave that feedback loop as much.
32:27 Lewis Howes? The dopamine hit.
32:28 Speaker 01 Yes, and not be so tied to the results. So that and instead setting other goals for myself. Because the thing about validation from other people, frankly, to me, it was like a school rubric.
32:46 Speaker 01 And for a long time, I'm like, I wish with content creation, you could get a rubric. Like, am I doing good enough? The numbers never stop going. So what is good enough? And even maybe people climbing like the corporate ladder might be able to relate. It's like, when are you supposed to feel enough? Or in any aspect, right? Whatever you're optimizing, how do you know it's enough? So figuring out what is, make your own rubric. Make your own goals as opposed to following what is maybe more traditional. Whether that's like, what does success look like to others? Or just focusing on like monetary value, things like that. Figure out what you actually want to optimize or reach.
33:25 Lewis Howes? Yeah. Do you feel enough right now?
33:28 Speaker 01 Luckily, yes. I want to say yes.
33:32 Speaker 01 I feel like I am reaping the rewards of like, I feel like a year or two of trying really hard to work on myself so that I don't keep being the same version of myself that I was all of these years. Not that that was a bad version, but I just feel like, you know, the beautiful thing about life is that it's so dynamic and you can choose who you want to be at any point just by changing the decisions that you make, right? Because we are kind of just like a culmination of our decisions.
34:03 Lewis Howes? Absolutely.
34:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, so it took a lot of thinking and planning of like, what do I want the next phase of my life to be? Because I can 100% keep streaming every day forever? I don't know. But I felt like I wouldn't change at all. I wouldn't grow as a person. I wouldn't experience new things. So how do I make this change? How do I let go and try something new?
34:26 Lewis Howes? Right. What was the biggest thing you had to rewire in your brain in the last couple of years? What was that shift that you had to really transform to get you to the current place you're at now? You're work, we're all work in progress, but to be where you are right now, what did you rewire?
34:42 Speaker 01 For sure, just like, uh, I'm so type A. I mean, studying engineering, I'm just always thinking about optimization. Optimize, optimize, that's why, you know, I'm a content creator. I work with algorithms and stuff, right? So I think letting go of that a little bit and recreating new goals has been difficult, but very worthwhile because you can find, like, what you find fulfilling might change over years, right?
35:14 Speaker 01 So figuring that out constantly.
35:17 Lewis Howes? When do you feel the most loved and the most enough?
35:21 Speaker 01 I think it was really, really important for me to
35:27 Speaker 01 find ways to recreate those sentiments that are not relating to my work. And like really carving out a private life, like good relationships with friends that I trust. And that is actually such a priority for me. I think with them, I feel very loved and enough. And also when I put myself out there in a way that I know is not optimized to my audience, but people still really enjoy it. That means a lot to me.
35:59 Lewis Howes? Really?
35:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
36:00 Lewis Howes? So you're not trying to do what they want or what the algorithm is telling you to do, but you're just like, you know, I want to talk about this. I want to create this type of content and here's what's on my heart and my soul and my mind. Put it out there and maybe it's not the biggest thing ever, but it still does well.
36:13 Speaker 01 Yeah, or some people say like, oh, it, it really resonated with me. Or I took this away and have implemented it into my life.
36:24 Speaker 01 That is so fulfilling. Makes me feel good.
36:27 Lewis Howes? Do your parents actually know what you do?
36:30 Speaker 01 Now, yes.
36:31 Lewis Howes? Because it took my parents, my whole family, probably, I don't know, until three years ago to know what I was doing. Because they're like, what do you do with this online marketing thing, this, what is this, how do you make money, you know?
36:42 Speaker 01 Once, my mom's a teacher, so once her students piece it together.
36:46 Lewis Howes? They're like, ah.
36:47 Speaker 01 And they started calling her Poki's mom, then she started getting it. She stopped telling me to go back to school.
36:52 Lewis Howes? That's funny, not Poki's mom, the Poki's mom.
36:54 Speaker 01 Yeah. Poki's mom, hi Poki's mom.
36:57 Lewis Howes? That's hilarious.
36:58 Speaker 01 It's so cute. She's like, I get a lot of benefits at school for being your mom. I'm like, good. You deserve them. You've sacrificed so much for me, as you should, you know?
37:05 Lewis Howes? That's amazing. But they think a few years?
37:09 Speaker 01 Yeah, absolutely.
37:10 Lewis Howes? When you finally said.
37:12 Speaker 01 They still don't really understand streaming. They can get around like YouTube videos, TikTok. Streaming is still a little bit of a bubble. Yeah.
37:18 Lewis Howes? Yeah. But how long, because you essentially quit college, so how long until they were like, okay, you don't need to go back? Like, we get it, you're okay on your own, you're not gonna starve and be alone the rest of your life. How many more years was that after you paused college?
37:34 Speaker 01 Four or five?
37:35 Lewis Howes? Wow.
37:36 Speaker 01 A while. I would say maybe four. Four years of like, everything okay, are you coming back?
37:43 Lewis Howes? Get some money?
37:43 Speaker 01 Yeah. Even now, I paid for my parents' retirement and my mom will still be like, do you need some money?
37:52 Speaker 01 But it's really, really sweet and frankly, I feel like the biggest privilege I've had in life was having caring and attentive parents. Regardless of like, oh, were they kind of strict? Did that make me feel, whatever.
38:06 Lewis Howes? But they cared.
38:07 Speaker 01 They were there for me, they cared.
38:09 Lewis Howes? Wow.
38:09 Speaker 01 They...
38:12 Speaker 01 Like, they loved me 100% and even when I like ran off to LA to do god knows what, they still always told me like, if all else fails, you have a bed in your home with us, like you can always come back here. And I feel like that's something that everybody deserves. And it like, it hurts my heart and soul so much that it just feels so unfair that some people don't have parents that treat them that way.
38:45 Speaker 01 I don't know. I'm like, can I treat you that way? I'll make an extra bed for you.
38:48 Lewis Howes? Right, right.
38:49 Speaker 01 But yeah, it feels like you're genuinely the greatest privilege I've had in my life.
38:53 Lewis Howes? Oh, that's cool. What decision have you made that you're the most proud of?
39:00 Speaker 01 Frankly, um,
39:04 Speaker 01 persevering through very difficult, weird, online situations.
39:11 Lewis Howes? Really?
39:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, there were a lot of times where like, as the number one Twitch female streamer, I was
39:18 Speaker 01 put in a position where I really didn't want to be. Not that position in particular, but just like being talked about in certain ways. Either like people being inappropriate towards me, or like sexualizing me when I really didn't want to be, or spreading rumors or this and that, especially on like a like a large stage in front of communities and communities and whatever happened.
39:43 Speaker 01 Doing my best to react in like the right way.
39:51 Speaker 01 In a way that would make other women in the space feel safe.
39:57 Speaker 01 And I think the messages that I still get to this day
40:02 Speaker 01 of people like being grateful for that means the world to me.
40:06 Speaker 01 Um, yeah.
40:08 Lewis Howes? So when you were, when you were facing some of these difficulties, you know, the ego wants to defend, it wants to react, it wants to-
40:17 Speaker 01 And sometimes I did. And then I had to apologize for that.
40:21 Lewis Howes? It wants to, you know,
40:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:23 Lewis Howes? say what it needs to say, it wants to, you know, whatever you want to do, right?
40:29 Lewis Howes? You know, it wants justice.
40:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:30 Lewis Howes? It wants fairness.
40:31 Speaker 01 This doesn't feel fair.
40:33 Lewis Howes? It's not fair, it's not right, that's not true, this is- Why did they do this? So how did you respond in a, I guess, conscious way that people still talk about today? How was that response?
40:48 Speaker 01 I think when you're in tough situations like that, especially when you feel that ego kicking in, you need to get advice from other people. People that you trust, people that you know, will give you an honest answer. And don't get advice from one person, ask like 10 people, you know?
41:05 Lewis Howes? So don't just jump on video and say how you feel right away.
41:09 Speaker 01 Been there, done that.
41:11 Speaker 01 Not the best idea. But really formulating like, how do I want to go about this? And as I said before, like, if I was in the audience instead of in my shoes, how would I want to see my favorite content creator or someone that I look up to respond or react? You know, what would I find inspiring? What would I find benefits this ecosystem as a whole of like live streaming of gaming this community? How can I make a good impact when I know people are watching or are waiting for my answer?
41:47 Lewis Howes? Right. How many people are on the streaming Twitch world?
41:52 Speaker 01 Oh, many, many, many.
41:54 Lewis Howes? How many million people are on the platform? I'm not even aware.
41:56 Speaker 01 Well, I have like 9 million followers, so more than that.
41:59 Lewis Howes? Right.
42:01 Lewis Howes? And how many, how many people? Just to give context, because I'm assuming a lot of people watch or listen to this. My community isn't on Twitch as much. What is,
42:12 Lewis Howes? like, what is the top people on Twitch? How many live viewers will they have on an average day?
42:18 Speaker 01 Well, Twitch has gone through like its ups and downs. So like the peaks were like 50, 100,000 viewers.
42:24 Lewis Howes? Live.
42:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:25 Lewis Howes? For some of the top people, for you as well.
42:27 Speaker 01 When everybody was at home during the pandemic, yeah. I've had numbers like that, which is insane.
42:31 Lewis Howes? 100,000 people watching live.
42:32 Speaker 01 What, like, you can't even fathom that, right?
42:35 Lewis Howes? Football stadium.
42:36 Speaker 01 Exactly.
42:39 Speaker 01 Um, but nowadays it's calmed down a little bit and it's more so people who are like really dedicated to watching. So like probably the top live streamers maybe have like fifty thousand. I'm more around like ten thousand, which is still like a ton. I feel like that was like, I hit one to five thousand, I'm like set for life, like that's fine.
42:57 Lewis Howes? Right, right.
42:58 Speaker 01 And then you get into it and you're like, the way that it can snowball is crazy.
43:02 Lewis Howes? Wow. And what is the strategy moving forward for you with business, branding, with managing, you know, this community and this audience and kind of reinventing yourself? What's the, the vision you have moving forward?
43:17 Speaker 01 Um, as I said before, I've just like written down a bunch of mantras that I want to live my life according to.
43:25 Lewis Howes? What are those?
43:26 Speaker 01 Some are just like, I mean, if I had my phone, I'd tell you right away. But, um, like for example, instead of just focusing on content that either I know people will like, or that is like optimized for the algorithm or whatever, balancing that, balancing that with an equal amount of content that is for like a specific community of people that I wanted to resonate with. Like every piece of content doesn't need to be a banger. Sometimes you just wanna cultivate a community or tell like-minded people how you feel, what you think, make them feel like they're not alone. And sometimes that, that's not everyone and that's okay, right?
44:08 Speaker 01 It's more so about, again, creating that community of people that you will be proud to be a part of. Yeah.
44:16 Lewis Howes? And what about the, the business that you have going forward? Is it less streaming and so therefore potentially less revenue there and you're trying to generate revenue in other places? What's that strategy for you?
44:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, so it was a little bit twofold making that decision.
44:33 Lewis Howes? Cause you're not streaming all the time anymore, right?
44:35 Speaker 01 Not anymore, no. I'll stream maybe like two, three times a week as opposed to like almost every day kind of thing.
44:40 Lewis Howes? Still six hours or a little less?
44:42 Speaker 01 I'll do like four to eight hours, something like that.
44:45 Lewis Howes? But, but half the week?
44:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:47 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
44:47 Speaker 01 Which is different. Um, and I'm working on other projects. As you know, like when your income is directly tied to your time, it's not very scalable.
45:00 Speaker 01 And it can be very tiring if you're trying to optimize how much you make, right?
45:05 Lewis Howes? Well, it's all on you too.
45:07 Speaker 01 Yes.
45:07 Lewis Howes? It's like the energy of your face, your, your persona, your brand, you've got to be on constantly.
45:13 Speaker 01 Yeah, and as I mentioned before, I love the business marketing aspect of everything. So interesting to me. So I'm in the works. I have a project that will launch when it launches.
45:27 Lewis Howes? Sure.
45:27 Speaker 01 And that's been such a fun, like, just passion of mine. Um, and I wouldn't have had the time to pursue it if I didn't actively make the decision to, you know, stream less and explore other things. But for a long time, it was really hard, especially as I said, like, coming from an immigrant family or like being an immigrant, it's like, the number one thing is to make it financially and like pay back your parents. And that has always been like such, such a heavy factor in my decision making that to rewire that was a little bit difficult. And again, I'm, I'm so lucky to even be able to make the decision not to. But I'm sure I'm not the only one out there.
46:10 Speaker 01 Like I find there's probably a lot of people who end up working so hard in one direction. For example, especially like the corporate ladder, and then you wind up somewhere where maybe you're making good pay, but you might not be as happy as you thought you were.
46:23 Lewis Howes? Right.
46:24 Speaker 01 So what do you do then, right? And I feel like, I feel like there were like different seasons of my life and I intentionally decided to make one season, like the, the season of like, I would just grind, let me just grind until I'm financially stable enough to do whatever I want. So that was, even having that opportunity is very lucky again. It's very difficult for me to talk about these things because I don't want to come off like out of touch.
46:56 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
46:57 Speaker 01 Um, or privileged, even though being a content creator, you frankly just are. But speaking frankly, that was just a decision, a decision that I decided to make. I was like, I'm gonna make less money so I can have a more fun life.
47:10 Lewis Howes? Sure, sure.
47:11 Speaker 01 But before that, I'm gonna grind my ass off.
47:13 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
47:14 Speaker 01 So, yeah, my parents don't have to worry, not have to worry.
47:16 Lewis Howes? That's amazing. Well, you wanted to have more peace, more harmony.
47:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:19 Lewis Howes? More, more balance in your life. And I think, you know, you mentioned being a content creator is a privileged life. And I think.
47:26 Lewis Howes? For some, you know, I think there's a lot of content creators that don't make any money.
47:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:30 Lewis Howes? That don't have either the timing, the talent, the skill, you know, the, the drive that you've had. Where it's really popped off and worked for you. Some people try and it doesn't work for whatever reason. And there's a lot more people that, that, that struggle. Um, trying to make a living from content. I think it's a challenging thing. So if you need to be able to do what you've done is inspiring and impressive. But it sounds like you figured out, you know, you can't keep doing the same grinding thing, thing nonstop.
47:56 Speaker 01 For some people, they can, and if that makes them happy.
47:59 Lewis Howes? Right.
48:00 Speaker 01 You know, all the more power to them.
48:02 Lewis Howes? I'm curious, you've had a, you know, eight, nine years of kind of experience in the streaming world and just. Reinvented yourself a few different times and grown and. You know, been to therapy and all these sort of had some hardships and dealt with some stress. You didn't feel like you belonged or fit in at times. If you could go back to your 16 year old self. And give three pieces of advice. Before you kind of jumped into this world of streaming and online personality. To set her up for success, what would you say to her?
48:33 Speaker 01 I would actually start off by saying like.
48:39 Speaker 01 Disarm yourself a little bit, you know? Apologizing is not a bad thing. Sometimes things may feel unfair.
48:51 Speaker 01 But not everything is about what's fair or not. Life in general is not fair.
48:59 Speaker 01 So take a moment, like anytime you feel defensive or reactive, it's much better to take a moment.
49:08 Speaker 01 I also like to think like, I don't dwell on this kind of question too much because I'm like, what if I this, what if I that? Would I go back and change this decision? At the end of the day, I'm like. As cheesy as it sounds, I really do view every mistake as like a learning lesson. That's also how I cope. I'm like, I might've made that mistake, but I learned from it. What else can I do?
49:28 Lewis Howes? Sure.
49:28 Speaker 01 So you just let it go. Definitely that would be number one. Number two is like, try very hard to stay true to yourself.
49:38 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
49:39 Speaker 01 But that's also, that's a lesson you learn. Sometimes you stray too far one way and you're like, I don't really feel like me. Then you, you know, you're back a little bit throughout life, probably.
49:52 Speaker 01 And lastly is probably to prioritize your health as much as you can. Physical, mental, in whatever ways that you can. Because you know, that's the number one limiting factor of anything you want to accomplish. Right?
50:14 Lewis Howes? For those who are who look up to you and whether it be young women or men that are like, I want to get into streaming, I want to, I want to make this a full time career or content creation. What's the one thing you would have people do with an hour a day? Before they did any of their content? If you could have an hour to do this one thing to set yourself up for a better life, what would that be?
50:37 Speaker 01 Before making a content?
50:39 Lewis Howes? Yeah, before your 10 hours a day grinding and just going for five to 10 years. If you had to carve out an hour a day for something else, what would that be?
50:48 Speaker 01 Honestly, before your day? Get some sunlight, 10 minutes. Meditate 10 minutes. And have a well balanced meal. 10 minutes. Um.
51:02 Speaker 01 Honestly, move your body somehow. That's it. Those four things. And your quality of life will improve significantly and you will be minimizing the downsides of however hard you want to work.
51:16 Lewis Howes? Right.
51:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:17 Lewis Howes? Because I feel like there's a lot of, I mean, I see the younger generation. And I see a lot of them just either on their phone for 10 to 15 hours a day. And it looks like they're either consuming TikTok or Snapchat or Twitch or whatever, or just messaging their friends all day. Um, or they're on a screen, you know, some type of screen. And I just feel like I s- I see the power of using social media and it's what I've done to build my business as well, but I also know how powerful it is to disconnect every day.
51:49 Speaker 01 Not just powerful, I think necessary.
51:51 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
51:52 Speaker 01 I wish there was more education surrounding that topic, especially for the younger generation. Parents nowadays who have to figure out how to manage their kids' relationship with these devices. It's, it's all very new territory, but people need to be very, very cognizant of the ways that it can shape your mind. And I mainly speak to this, especially for young girls, because I know how detrimental it can be to their self-perception, their confidence, all of these things, yeah.
52:28 Lewis Howes? What do, what does looking at yourself, looking at other women on social media or streaming with filters and, you know, modification apps do to young women?
52:50 Speaker 01 It makes you feel not right.
52:53 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
52:53 Speaker 01 You know, I feel like we're constantly being told, whether we recognize it or not, when we see something repeatedly and we see something be praised repeatedly, we know, oh, this is what's right. And anything that doesn't look like that is wrong.
53:08 Lewis Howes? Wow.
53:09 Speaker 01 And so I think it's very important to, one, be wary of who you follow. Are you diversifying who you follow? Are you following them because of how they look, because of what they say? What are the reasons for that? And are those reasons good? Um, and then, two, I just implore people to spend more time in real life, frankly. Because online, you, you see a lot of the same. But when you're just walking around real life, you see what real bodies look like, what people look like up close. We all have wrinkles and spots and this and that, and not everybody's flat stomach. And even the people who post photos like that at some point are not, like after a big meal.
53:52 Speaker 01 So, like, yeah, go to the gym, see real people working out, what those things actually look like. Otherwise, our entire, our perception is just a culmination of what we see. If all that we see is optimized, filtered, modified in some way, it's not realistic. So make sure to spend an equal amount of time in a more realistic environment.
54:15 Lewis Howes? How's that affect you at all, seeing other women, you know, on social media with filters and everything else?
54:21 Speaker 01 For sure. And I mean, partially just as a viewer or as an audience. Or a woman in her twenties, you know, it's like, oh, this kind of style is praised a lot. Should I do this? Should I do that? Um, and then, secondly, as a content creator, like, oh, people really like this kind of look. Would it be optimizing my business to look this way? You get what I mean? There's so many levels to it. And I think going down that rabbit hole too much, one hurts your brain. And two, honestly detracts from the fun and more like fulfilling parts of content creation, which is like making someone happy.
55:01 Lewis Howes? Right.
55:02 Speaker 01 Or putting something out that means a lot to me. As opposed to focusing too much on appearances, it can be hard sometimes.
55:09 Lewis Howes? Yeah, sure.
55:10 Speaker 01 Yeah, so I've had like any time I feel my brain getting caught up in that a little bit too much. I'm like, okay, let's reel it back. Let's reevaluate how much time I'm spending online, what I'm thinking about, the kind of content that I consume. That's really important too.
55:25 Lewis Howes? Right.
55:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, like you said, your whole TikTok is motivational stuff.
55:27 Lewis Howes? It is motivation.
55:28 Speaker 01 And so that's what your brain is going to be all about. And the things that you talk about is going to be all about that.
55:33 Lewis Howes? Exactly. I'm curious about your perspective on money. You started making really good money in your late teens, early twenties, more than ninety nine point nine percent of people in their late teens and twenties in the world, probably.
55:50 Lewis Howes? How did that affect you? Making, you know, more money than your peers, most of your peers at a young age? And what is the dark side of making money for someone who's really young?
56:02 Speaker 01 Well, I don't want to act like it's
56:06 Speaker 01 such a detrimental thing, you know? Yeah, because, I mean, I started streaming when I was in high school, didn't make much. In college, was still in debt for like two years. And then it started taking off. And then maybe two, three years after that, I started making significantly more, like more than what a doctor makes. And then for like two, three years, it was much, much more than I could have ever imagined. So.
56:37 Speaker 01 Initially, it was it was really just like step by step. Like, I'm just looking to have like a part-time job, basically. I can make a little bit of money here while studying engineering. Cool. Then I was like, wait, if I focus on this for a couple of months, I can pay off my student loans. Cool. And then frankly, for me, my dream in life was always to make six figures. Because that's like what a doctor makes.
57:02 Lewis Howes? Sure, sure.
57:02 Speaker 01 Let's go. And I really felt like at that point, I was like, okay, I'm good.
57:10 Speaker 01 But it felt like the expectation in life is to optimize that. So when you see the opportunity, right? It's like, go for it, go for it. But at some point, it's like,
57:25 Speaker 01 you don't really realize what you're sacrificing? Or if you should keep going for it?
57:34 Speaker 01 And I think there were a lot of times where I just put like my health and my mental on the back burner because I was so fixated on like, I need financial stability. And just like with anything else, it can get like,
57:49 Speaker 01 it just becomes a habit or almost like addicting. It's like, okay, need to focus on this. And I just, I lost sight of again, like, what do I want? What actually makes me happy? And it's like, there was such a scarcity sentiment. Yeah. I mean, even with content creators, it's like, you don't know where your career is going to be in a year or two.
58:08 Lewis Howes? Right. What if the algorithm changes? What if they cancel my account? What if, who knows, right?
58:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:15 Speaker 01 I'm not going to say that there were like crazy downsides aside from like things that I had to figure out myself, right? Like how to really manage my life and my business structure? But I do feel like sometimes to my peers, maybe they like viewed me differently. Knowing that.
58:35 Lewis Howes? Really? How so?
58:37 Speaker 01 Well.
58:39 Speaker 01 I think depending on the person, it might be something that they
58:45 Speaker 01 judge you off of.
58:46 Lewis Howes? How much money you're making?
58:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:47 Lewis Howes? Really?
58:48 Speaker 01 Yeah. I think for some people it can be inspirational, but for some people it's like, oh, you're over there and I'm here kind of thing. But it's like, oh, I don't come from money. Like, I'm not like that man. Yeah, um, which I understand, right? Everybody makes assumptions based off of what they might know about someone. But I also think the lifestyle that I was leading, when I wanted to like save up as much as I could, take care of my parents, do this, do that, that lifestyle was also isolating.
59:21 Lewis Howes? Hmm, really?
59:22 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, for sure.
59:24 Lewis Howes? How so?
59:25 Speaker 01 Just work, work, work all the time. And when you're optimizing for work or for financials, everything else is on the back burner.
59:33 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
59:33 Speaker 01 And it takes so much effort to like, oh, wait, I need to keep up with friends. I need to create a friend circle. I need to do this. I need to do that. Even taking care of like your health. It's so easy to set everything else aside when you're focused on career goals.
59:50 Lewis Howes? Right. Now, it does, it sounds like you didn't, you weren't raised with a ton of money, but you had money, you had a home, you had, you know, opportunities. But you weren't having this rich lifestyle growing up as a kid, right?
1:00:01 Speaker 01 Not at all. I feel like, you wanna know how I learned, like really the value of a dollar?
1:00:05 Lewis Howes? Sure.
1:00:06 Speaker 01 Which in hindsight, I'm so glad that I did. I've had like numerous jobs before streaming. My very first one was I was like, I was a newspaper delivery girl.
1:00:16 Lewis Howes? Nice.
1:00:17 Speaker 01 And I feel like I've, yeah, I've always had like a very mathematical optimization kind of mindset. And I would make maybe like a hundred dollars every two weeks or something. And I would do it like two, three times a week. And I had this kind of a route. And I divvied everything up to be like, okay, every time I drop off a newspaper, that's five cents. Yeah, so I'm like, five cents, five cents, five cents, five cents, yeah. So that was, I mean, that was, and I was so excited, you know, because I didn't get like, um, what do you call it when your parents give you money?
1:00:51 Lewis Howes? Like entitled or?
1:00:52 Speaker 01 No, no, no.
1:00:53 Lewis Howes? An allowance.
1:00:53 Speaker 01 An allowance. I didn't have like an allowance or anything like that. So for me to have money to spend on my own, that was the only way, like go get a job. So I was like thirteen years old, five cents, five cents, but it was so exciting to be able to do something on my own, to exchange my time and labor for any amount of money, right? And then you start thinking, okay, how can I optimize this? Let me ride a bike. A little bit faster. And then, you know, a couple of years later, you're able to work elsewhere. You also divvy that up, so.
1:01:26 Lewis Howes? What, when, I mean, how did you learn how to manage money when it started to come in in abundance, really, and more and more? Because you grew up, you know, five cents at a time with newspapers to six and seven figures and beyond. How did you handle it? Like, how did you manage it, handle it, and not be scarce with it still, but think abundantly?
1:01:49 Lewis Howes? Or was there a period of still scarcity? Because you're like, I don't know if this is going to keep coming in, so.
1:01:55 Speaker 01 I think I was very lucky that everything came like one step at a time. You know, from that one newspaper job to getting a part-time job, to getting a full-time job, to streaming, to. I feel like I, yeah, everything was incremental throughout my whole life. So I've been able to have a bit of an adjustment period. When I started making like pretty good money, I mean, I'm very lucky. My, sorry, dad raised me well. He like got me a bank account at like thirteen. Even if there's not much in it, it's like, this is your bank account, this is how much you have. You should have a savings account, you should have a checking. And, you know, rule of thumb, try to save at least this much percentage of your money. So I was always very considerate of these things, no matter how much I made.
1:02:40 Speaker 01 It's like, I need to be saving at least, let's say, like half of my income. And your, your spending money should only be like this portion. And having that mindset already going into it allowed me to not spiral too much one way in terms of scarcity, or spiral too much one way in terms of, let me just spend, spend, spend, spend, spend, right? And I also, um, I try to be very experimental. Again, I feel like I've learned so much in school engineering, but experimental in the sense that I would experiment on spending on different things. If I spend a lot more on a video, what does that return look like?
1:03:23 Speaker 01 If I invest in myself in terms of my health, if I get a trainer, if I get, um, if I invest more in like nutrition, therapy, what are the things where I get the most return and that are actually very helpful? And so some things don't make that large of a difference. Like frankly, as much as I love clothes and fashion, it's like some shirts, if it's good quality, it could be fifty dollars. If it's five hundred dollars, is it gonna make that much of a difference? No, but honestly, um, leveling up with like therapy, that was huge.
1:03:52 Lewis Howes? Nutrition, health, therapy.
1:03:54 Speaker 01 My therapist is like, yeah, he's, he's honestly like partially a life coach.
1:04:00 Lewis Howes? Hey, hey.
1:04:00 Speaker 01 Um, very, very worthwhile. Any sort of health investment I've made, most investments in myself, I feel, paid off a lot, so I started prioritizing that investments in that in my business. And I feel like looking at it very holistically is what helped me the most.
1:04:19 Lewis Howes? That's beautiful. I love that. Investing yourself was never a bad investment.
1:04:22 Speaker 01 One thousand percent. And honestly, just try stuff. Experiment, um, experiment almost like very considerably and safely. Like I'm gonna try this intentionally and I will jot down how it goes. Should I keep doing it? Yes? No?
1:04:37 Lewis Howes? Yeah, right. I've got a few final questions for you. This has been fascinating. I'm on appreciate you.
1:04:43 Speaker 01 So by the way, feel free to ask me anything about like the streaming space. I love talking to people who have no idea what it's about. So if you have like weird questions.
1:04:52 Lewis Howes? I'll see what I come up with you.
1:04:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:04:54 Lewis Howes? I'm curious. I wanted to ask you first about, um, how to navigate relationships while being a streamer, while being a big personality, live streaming all day. You've got a massive community watching you constantly, subscribe to you everywhere. How do you build relationships with friends and intimate relationships over the last 10 years so that you can create harmony in relationships and not stress?
1:05:23 Speaker 01 I mean, it's for sure a learning process. And frankly, just like anything else that's worthwhile, good friendships and relationships require effort, like regular communication, time with each other. And I think during perhaps the most successful parts of my life, I mean, people say it a lot, but it can also be the loneliest. But now, when I feel successful, because I spend so much time building out these relationships, I can try to like maximize both at once. But you really, really need to be intentional with those
1:06:03 Speaker 01 things. Otherwise, it's it's hard to have those deep, deep relationships.
1:06:10 Lewis Howes? And how do you manage an intimate relationship with, you know, working nonstop and having this big audience? I don't know, people being jealous or not, like, how do you manage that?
1:06:23 Speaker 01 I think compartmentalizing time is helpful, you know? You're like, if I want to manage these relationships that mean a lot to me, I need to create time and space for them. Especially with any friends that I have that aren't in the public eye, it's about having that conversation of like, are you comfortable being in these things or not?
1:06:45 Lewis Howes? Like in the live streams?
1:06:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, or anything, in vlogs, in photos. I think sometimes people can be a little bit like worried, obviously, or like unsure, because it's such a new space. And it's very easy. Living in L.A., you'll always meet people who are a little bit too excited to be in front of the camera. And you can tell, maybe that's their priority.
1:07:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, so I think communication has helped me. I mean, it's just the key to making sure that you're on the same page with anyone. And ultimately, creating very specific times when I'm on, I'm Pokimane, I'm working, I'm doing whatever, and very specific times when I'm off. And if I get along really well with someone when I'm just being me, there's no cameras, no nothing, no nothing to benefit from. And we develop a beautiful friendship, relationship based off of that. That's how I know I can carry that into my public life. If they're comfortable with it.
1:07:43 Lewis Howes? Sure, sure. Do you feel pretty safe in L.A.? Like, you mentioned before, like, the streaming world's like a different type of, I wouldn't say crazy, but fanatics, right? Like, if people, if they're watching you six, 10 hours a day, they're probably really, like, into you in certain ways and feel like they get to know you and you're their best friend and all these things.
1:08:02 Speaker 01 It gets parasocial sometimes.
1:08:04 Lewis Howes? Parasocial?
1:08:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's the term we use quite a bit.
1:08:07 Lewis Howes? What does that mean?
1:08:08 Speaker 01 It just means when people, it's a one-sided relationship, essentially. If someone is watching you for eight hours a day, it's easy for them to feel close to you, but you don't know them at all. So they might come up to you like, "Oh, my god, hey", act like you're best friends, you're like, "You're a stranger to me." So it's such an interesting...
1:08:28 Lewis Howes? Does that happen a lot for you? Is it different in L.A. because there's celebrities everywhere and people are more like,
1:08:34 Speaker 01 True.
1:08:34 Lewis Howes? chill about it?
1:08:35 Speaker 01 Luckily, I feel like general understanding and, yeah, knowledge or education around these parasocial relationships has gotten a lot better. So even from, like, the viewer's perspective, they're like, "Oh, we need to be considerate of these things. We need to approach people respectfully." So nowadays, to me, people are really, really nice.
1:08:57 Lewis Howes? That's good.
1:08:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, I have had some, like, security concerns. People always want to find out where you live, what you're doing, who you're with, these kinds of things. But frankly, the less that I stream, again, a very, like, connected, long-format type of content, the less of these issues I have. And I've tried very, very hard. I'm eight years into this. I've set those boundaries publicly. I've figured out, like, What are the things and topics that I should avoid so that people don't get too curious? What are things that you keep to yourself? I don't even like, I can't post photos like outside of my window.
1:09:37 Lewis Howes? To show anything.
1:09:38 Speaker 01 Not at all.
1:09:38 Lewis Howes? It's just a wall.
1:09:40 Speaker 01 Sometimes I'll move in somewhere and I'll like paint the place differently. I'll get things removed, things changed to make sure it doesn't match anything online.
1:09:47 Lewis Howes? Wow.
1:09:48 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, it's been quite the learning experience just to avoid any sort of security concerns.
1:09:55 Lewis Howes? Wow. What is the psychology of being really great on Twitch and live streaming? Like, what is the psychology to make someone a great streamer to build a bigger audience?
1:10:08 Speaker 01 I think.
1:10:11 Speaker 01 I mean, I hate to say, but we really are all people pleasers. To some degree, we are. Um, we just want like that positive viewer reaction and feedback loop, especially with the chat. Uh, I think people who learn quickly, adapt are great because it's interesting, you can look at your chat as like constant feedback. And if you take that in properly, you optimize how you are as a streamer. How you talk, what you say, what you do, what do people react positively to? Um, so I would say that and people who just have a big personality and like to talk. I mean, you have to talk the whole time, basically.
1:10:57 Lewis Howes? Do those things, yeah. Do those things and you have an opportunity, a chance. That's amazing. Couple of final questions for you. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end. It's called the three truths question. So imagine a hypothetical scenario. I'm gonna put this in your context.
1:11:14 Lewis Howes? Twitch and streaming is still massive a hundred years away, but it's your last day on earth. And.
1:11:22 Lewis Howes? You have done and created everything you want to create in your life. You've had the life of your dreams. You've accomplished everything.
1:11:28 Speaker 01 I sure hope so.
1:11:29 Lewis Howes? Relationships, family, fun, all these different things you've had. But for whatever reason, all the content you've ever created, no one has access to anymore. It has to go to the next place, wherever you go after we die.
1:11:44 Lewis Howes? But you get one final livestream. And this piece of content will stay in this world forever. And you only get to share three lessons that you've learned from your life. If you could imagine this future scenario, what would be those three lessons, or what I like to call three truths, that you would share if you were streaming live your final time, and there was no other content to watch of you?
1:12:10 Speaker 01 The first thing I would say is that
1:12:15 Speaker 01 I feel like compassion is the key to humanity.
1:12:21 Speaker 01 So cultivate that, treasure it, utilize it as much as you can. Put yourself in other people's shoes. Talk to other people all the time. No one is below or above anyone else. We all lead such cool, unique, individual lives, right? That's such a beautiful thing. And something that I find a little bit difficult about the internet is that sometimes it removes that humanity. Like, oh, you're just a person, your one sentence, your one comment, your one 15-second clip.
1:12:59 Speaker 01 But everyone you encounter, online or in person, have like a whole backstory to them.
1:13:06 Speaker 01 And that is what really informs their behaviors, good or bad or whatever, right? I think that's just something that's good to keep in mind.
1:13:16 Speaker 01 Two, I'd probably...
1:13:22 Speaker 01 Say something about gratitude.
1:13:25 Speaker 01 Another thing that I feel requires a lot of cultivating. Because
1:13:32 Speaker 01 we live in a really, really cool day and age. We have access to so much. But sometimes I feel like as humans, we weren't meant to. It's like these neurons start like firing a little bit too much. Your brain becomes a little bit fried. And it's easy to lose sight of things. And gratitude above all else is what's going to keep you grounded. And maintaining some type of contentment, no matter what life you lead.
1:14:04 Speaker 01 And lastly,
1:14:07 Speaker 01 I just hope everybody's happy and healthy and has a good laugh and like take care of yourself. It would be so hard.
1:14:14 Speaker 01 You're like, I'm gonna disappear. This is the last thing I can say. Yeah, honestly, at the end of my stream, I like to just wish everyone well. Like, drink some water, go for a walk, do something good for yourself today. Take care. I'll see you in the next one.
1:14:28 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
1:14:29 Speaker 01 And then never come back.
1:14:32 Speaker 01 Really, um, I mean, you can, you can go on and on about like deep lessons and this and that.
1:14:42 Speaker 01 But
1:14:44 Speaker 01 take care of yourself and tend to the garden you can touch. The people around you that you see.
1:14:53 Speaker 01 Treat them well. You don't have to worry about every problem in the world.
1:15:00 Speaker 01 Just help those that you can help.
1:15:04 Speaker 01 Take care of each other, take care of yourself.
1:15:06 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
1:15:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:15:07 Lewis Howes? You sound like a true life coach. I like it. It sounds, got a lot of wisdom for your youth.
1:15:11 Speaker 01 All the mantras I have in my journals.
1:15:13 Lewis Howes? Exactly. I wanna, uh, I've got another final question for you and I wanna see where we should follow you and support you, how we can support you in a second. But I want to acknowledge you for a moment because I think it's really hard when you're in the public eye as a young age. And have a lot of audience and have a lot of pressure, a lot of great stuff happening, but also some, some challenges to face, money, all these different things that you just feel like you're in a very solid place right now. And I acknowledge you for acknowledging that you might have different breakdowns in your past and saying, what can I do to pause and get some support and go to therapy, get coaching, get advice. I really acknowledge you for that because I think it's hard for anyone to want to go to therapy. I've been doing it for years.
1:15:56 Lewis Howes? I love it. It brings me a lot of peace, especially the youth. I think it's hard to acknowledge when, hey, I'm not doing so well. I've got some breakdown. Let me get some support here. So I really acknowledge you for doing that, talking about it. And I also acknowledge you for reinventing yourself to do what fills you up. Not just what makes me the most money or what other people want me to do, but what also fills you up. So I really am inspired that that's where you're at in this stage of your life and acknowledge you for that.
1:16:23 Speaker 01 Thank you so much. You are an amazing listener and conversationalist. I feel like you really just summarized the last year of my life.
1:16:31 Lewis Howes? That's good. That's good.
1:16:32 Speaker 01 Thank you so much.
1:16:33 Lewis Howes? How, before I ask the final question, how can we follow you, support you? Where are you going to be hanging out the most online?
1:16:40 Speaker 01 Um, I've been having a lot of fun posting random TikToks. On TikTok, I'm P O K I, Poki, that's it. Uh, but feel free to look me up anywhere. P O K I M A N E. On Instagram, I like to post day to day. Twitch, if you want to check out some live streams, I read, I mean, this is probably my like greatest and oddest life skill. When I stream, it doesn't matter how many messages, messages are in chat, I genuinely can read all of them.
1:17:09 Lewis Howes? Wow.
1:17:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:17:10 Lewis Howes? You can game and read? You can play and?
1:17:13 Speaker 01 Yes, a little bit, but even like if it's going super, I just.
1:17:17 Lewis Howes? You see it all.
1:17:18 Speaker 01 I've, yeah. I mean, you just learn doing something for 10 years. That's probably the just oddest skill that a live streamer has. It's like you can skim books super quickly, but chat messages instead.
1:17:29 Lewis Howes? Wow.
1:17:29 Speaker 01 So that's my most fun way to be like, wow, I can essentially meet or interact with a human being, just like if they tune into my live stream.
1:17:36 Lewis Howes? That's amazing.
1:17:37 Speaker 01 Yeah. And insert anything. And then YouTube more so for like bigger moments.
1:17:41 Lewis Howes? Uh huh.
1:17:42 Speaker 01 So whatever you're interested in.
1:17:44 Lewis Howes? We'll follow you. We'll follow you everywhere. Poki.
1:17:46 Speaker 01 Appreciate that a lot. Thank you so much.
1:17:47 Lewis Howes? Everywhere. Make sure you guys follow. Uh, final question for you. What is your definition of greatness?
1:17:54 Speaker 01 My definition of greatness is someone who is secure in what they find fulfilling and what brings them joy, and they pursue that with all their might.
1:18:11 Lewis Howes? I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels @louishowes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter
1:18:54 Lewis Howes? and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com/newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.
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