The Relationships You Never Get Over with Josie Balka

Warning: This episode may make you feel things. We absolutely loved talking with author/poet Josie Balka ahead of her debut book about everything from body image to exes to friendship. We discuss how no one cares what you look like in a swimsuit, why the people who didn't want you stick with you more than partners who did, reflective questions to ask yourself after a first date, that one person in your life you wish you never met, and why friendship breakups can be harder than romantic breakups. She also opens up about her fiancé, and we discuss our own past and present relationships. Before Josie joins us, Rayna shares friend behavior that should be straight to jail, and Ashley tells the tale of the woman who walked out of her standup show. Enjoy! Follow Josie on Instagram @josiebalka and Tiktok @josiebalka and order her book I Hope You Remember. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for more. Thank you to our partners this week: Quince: Get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order at https://quince.com/GGE. Nutrafol: Get $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you subscribe at https://nutrafol.com with code GGE10. ZBiotics: Get 15% off your first order at https://zbiotics.com/gge with code GGE. Helix: Get 27% off sitewide + a free bedding bundle with any Luxe or Elite mattress order at https://helixsleep.com/gge. Pretty Litter: Get 20% off your first order + a free cat toy at https://prettylitter.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  There's just something about the people that didn't want you that like really lingers with you versus the people who really did love you.

• 0:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  This podcast is a Dear Media production.

• 0:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Hi guys.

• 0:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hi guys.

• 0:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat.

• 0:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Welcome back.

• 0:31Rayna Greenberg?

  I cannot wait to get out of here and get my hair done.

• 0:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Which is today?

• 0:34Rayna Greenberg?

  It's tomorrow.

• 0:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Tomorrow.

• 0:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Somebody commented on one of my videos, it was so eloquently said, she has money now and can't even pay to look less ratchet.

• 0:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  What?

• 0:42Rayna Greenberg?

  Now, I've been having money, girl, get out of here.

• 0:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  She's like, you have a semblance of a living.

• 0:48Rayna Greenberg?

  It was giving that.

• 0:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 0:49Rayna Greenberg?

  She said to me, like, she finally has money and can't make her hair look good. And I was like.

• 0:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  You just need to get it redone. This is a whole process.

• 0:55Rayna Greenberg?

  It takes like five hours.

• 0:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  We're busy. You are, are you overdue?

• 1:00Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I'm underdo. Actually, my hair just grew really fast.

• 1:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, good for you. Can I tell you what I think I'm gonna do tomorrow?

• 1:05Rayna Greenberg?

  What?

• 1:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think I'm gonna do natural nails.

• 1:09Rayna Greenberg?

  But you have natural nails.

• 1:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, polish.

• 1:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Natural polish?

• 1:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, like, I just kind of feel like I want to see their, like, raw look.

• 1:17Rayna Greenberg?

  That's crazy.

• 1:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, I might get clear gel on them to keep them strong. But like, they've gotten so long.

• 1:23Rayna Greenberg?

  They're obscenely long.

• 1:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  That I just want to, like, see their natural look.

• 1:27Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, your nails are, they look really fake. It's crazy.

• 1:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know. I can't even believe it.

• 1:31Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, that couldn't be me.

• 1:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Do we have a Nutriful out today?

• 1:33Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm never gonna be that brave. Yeah, we have Nutriful today, actually.

• 1:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  All right, well, let's get into it.

• 1:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Couldn't be me, you see my stubby little nail beds. All right, thanks to Quince, get free shipping and 365 day returns on your next order at quince.com/gge and Zbiotics, get 15% off your first order at zbiotics.com/gge with code GGE. Finally, Helix, get 27% off site wide and free bedding bundle with any luxe or elite mattress order at helixsleep.com/gge.

• 2:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  And thank you to PrettyLitter, get 20% off your first order and a free cat toy at prettylitter.com/gge. And Nutriful, get $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you subscribe at nutrafol.com with code GGE10.

• 2:18Rayna Greenberg?

  This is like very funny, like, behavior. I was wondering what you think about it. Like, to me, it's jail. So. One of our friends texted me and she does this often and she just said, are you free tomorrow night?

• 2:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 2:31Rayna Greenberg?

  No information. I think it is the craziest thing to ask people what their plans are and not tell me what the plan is. So I can make up a lie about I, I don't want to do the thing you're about to suggest. You can't ask about my schedule before you tell me the plan.

• 2:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  You can ask whatever you want. I'm gonna write why what's up.

• 2:51Rayna Greenberg?

  Right. I, I'm not gonna.

• 2:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  I would never answer that question.

• 2:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Can you imagine? Are you free tomorrow night? Just being like, yeah.

• 2:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's an ambush.

• 2:59Rayna Greenberg?

  I start like scrambling where I'm like, um, I might be, but like recording my run late. And so I can't really commit to anything.

• 3:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're overthinking this. Why what's up? Tell me what first.

• 3:11Rayna Greenberg?

  You have to jail.

• 3:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 3:13Rayna Greenberg?

  I only have one friend I will tolerate this from and she's the one that doesn't. It's Jackie and she always.

• 3:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, Jackie's coming over regardless.

• 3:19Rayna Greenberg?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 3:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Jackie's gonna make sure you see her regardless. She is gonna find your location. She's there.

• 3:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes. She's always like, do you want to go for a walk? And I'm like, no. And she's like, you're sitting at your house. I know you're sitting at your house. Also, I'm outside and I have a key. She just let herself in. Also, she always has cool stuff to do.

• 3:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 3:35Rayna Greenberg?

  She is my one friend.

• 3:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally.

• 3:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Listen, all our friends are great, but she's my one friend that I know she's about to serve up some like exclusive event. I went out to dinner with her the other night.

• 3:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 3:44Rayna Greenberg?

  She has a food account called No Leftover. She's a food blogger.

• 3:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  So good. Her food content is second to none.

• 3:47Rayna Greenberg?

  And we went out to dinner the other night. They comped a $600 check.

• 3:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. You gotta hang out with Jackie.

• 3:52Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean.

• 3:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  We're gonna be in those DMs now. Hey, girl. You up? But here's the thing, also depending on your level of friendship, because you could ask me that and I would just be honest with you. I might hit you with a why what's up, but if I said, I'm free, what's up? And you said something I didn't want to do, I'd be like, I don't want to do that. So your best friends, you can do whatever you want because you're gonna tell them regardless. No, I don't want to do that. Can we do something else?

• 4:16Rayna Greenberg?

  She is also a person I would say, that's stupid. I don't want to do that. But I just thought it was crazy. And I flagged this to her yesterday. I was like, you know, you're my like only friend that has like the balls to say like, are you just, are you just free? For what?

• 4:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm trying to think if I ever do it. It does feel like a trap.

• 4:33Rayna Greenberg?

  It's a, it is a trap. It should be, are you free tomorrow night? I have these tickets. I have this dinner reservation. Like, why can't I know what the plan is? What are we doing?

• 4:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  You could hit somebody back with a maybe, dot, dot, dot. And that implies, tell me what we're doing.

• 4:47Rayna Greenberg?

  It depends.

• 4:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Tell me what you've got going on.

• 4:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes. I thought it was very funny.

• 4:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  It is funny.

• 4:51Rayna Greenberg?

  Behavioral, and I was wondering what you thought about it.

• 4:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  But Jackie, she's, it's not even a trap for her. It's just vibes.

• 4:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't know. And she knows, you know, I'm gonna be doing something dope. Jackie's like, my life is dope and I do dope shit.

• 5:03Rayna Greenberg?

  And she's also like, I may not show up. Jackie's just like, I will tell you a plan, but I also may not show up for this.

• 5:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right. She'll get you all excited and she'll be like, I can't make it.

• 5:13Rayna Greenberg?

  One time when I was friends, when I first became friends with her in New York, I was at some like food event. She came with her boyfriend. It was me and this girl, her and her boyfriend. And she left in the middle of it. This is the first time I'd ever met her boyfriend. She leaves me at this dinner with him and texts me I had to get a manicure.

• 5:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  She bailed on her own plans.

• 5:34Rayna Greenberg?

  And left her boyfriend with me and my friend.

• 5:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  So funny.

• 5:39Rayna Greenberg?

  And she's just like, one of those people, like Jackie's gonna Jackie. If you just left me with your fiance at dinner, I would, I'm, well, you're leaving me with somebody I know and I like. But like.

• 5:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, you think I'm in the bathroom? I'm like, I'm at Pinky's. I'm knee deep in this UV lamp.

• 5:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Sorry, can't talk. I got foil on my nails. You're like, what? Are you not in the bathroom?

• 5:59Rayna Greenberg?

  I've made polish change.

• 6:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, so gotta love her. But yeah, let us know what you guys think in the comments. If you think it's jail or some people might not mind this.

• 6:09Rayna Greenberg?

  There's like one person in my life that could do that. And like maybe my parent, even a parent, I'm like, free for what? Okay, anyways.

• 6:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I just got back from Florida.

• 6:18Rayna Greenberg?

  You went on a whole tour without me?

• 6:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Crazy that you weren't there.

• 6:22Rayna Greenberg?

  I did last minute decide I was gonna come. And then it was F1 weekend in Miami and it was, the tickets were like exorbitantly expensive.

• 6:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  To get there?

• 6:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 6:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Miami itself, I wanted to keep this a secret, but I gotta tell you, amazing time to go. We've always gone in February, mostly like winter, because we were escaping New York, and then it just became our tradition. So much better later, like

• 6:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh.

• 6:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Late April, May. So many people have gone. It's all locals. It's not that touristy, snowbird type crowd. And even my friends who split time between there and somewhere else are about to leave and go back up to Delaware or wherever. So it just felt like so chill. The beach wasn't that crowded. I was like, this is it. And not too hot. In a few weeks, it'll just be unbearably hot. But I had the best time. Did a show in Miami and a show, two shows in Tampa on my tour. And if you guys are curious, I'm still touring all summer long. And I'll be in Salt Lake City next. So I'll be in Salt Lake City next weekend. Tickets at ashass.com. Just have to plug it. But something happened on tour that has not happened to me yet.

• 7:26Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm so jealous. I'm so jealous of everything that happened. I wasn't even there.

• 7:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  This lady stormed out. Middle finger in the air.

• 7:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  To my knowledge, no one has ever left my show. Some people probably have. Like if they were offended. I'm not that offensive.

• 7:41Rayna Greenberg?

  The guy that I used to date who brought his sister to the show, and I was talking about him tit fucking me, and she got up and walked out. But she didn't make a thing of it.

• 7:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  To make a thing of it, you know, you're sitting in the back, you leave quietly. Like, I don't even know if I would have known that I had walked her if she didn't put her middle finger in the air. It took me minutes to process. Also, the lights, like, I can't really see so much of what's going on in the crowd. She's walking out, middle of the room at the Tampa Funny Bone. She's walking out and I am like, is she, I go, are you, is she leaving? And then people are like, yeah, she's leaving. I'm like, ma'am. I like really riffed on it. It was very funny.

• 8:17Rayna Greenberg?

  Did she turn around and give you the finger?

• 8:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, she, a middle finger in the air.

• 8:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Back to you.

• 8:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just blonde Karen, probably in her 50s, middle finger in the air, walked, stormed out. I will say, it was a really mild abortion joke.

• 8:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I don't hold back in my comedy. There is some political themes throughout. People don't seem to mind if they are on the other side of the aisle. It's not.

• 8:43Rayna Greenberg?

  It's light.

• 8:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  It is light. This is, this is the lightest thing I've done. And Brittany Brave, who I adore, you guys should see her if you can. She's so, so funny. She was with me in both cities, just fucking crushed it. So she has some stuff up top that was more offensive, quote unquote, if that's your hard line, is, you know, women's rights and abortion. And so I was shocked. Like this joke, actually, that I tell, I'm not going to give it away. People, wherever you stand, seemed to like it. Like, I don't know if she had been fed up at that point.

• 9:12Rayna Greenberg?

  With Brittany's jokes.

• 9:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then my opening joke, and then she was like, one more fucking abortion joke and I'm out of here. And I feel, I'm saying, there's not that much, like, my standup about that. But that's why I was so surprised that she left at that. And that made it even funnier. And I roasted her the whole walk to the door. She had to walk through the showroom, roasted her the whole way. And then I was like, bye. And then the, all the audience was like, bye bitch. Na na na na. Hey.

• 9:38Rayna Greenberg?

  You guys are channing.

• 9:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 9:40Rayna Greenberg?

  You're so lucky.

• 9:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then I was able to keep riffing on it. It inspired me. I was like horny about it. I was like, I'm going to masturbate to that later.

• 9:48Rayna Greenberg?

  Nothing would turn me on more.

• 9:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, my God.

• 9:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Just the finger up in the air. Also, by the, like, it's not, well, it's not a political joke at all. And it's just about your own body. I mean, you're not roasting other people. I mean, it's literally just about your own body.

• 10:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  And it's so crazy, because there is a punchline that I guess you would get offended by sorta, if you're easily offended. I hadn't even gotten to yet. I was midway through the, I was only done the first half. She was out. And I cannot believe I don't have this on film. Like, I had a videographer for my Miami set, but not for Tampa. I can't believe I don't have this.

• 10:22Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I can't believe it either. I can't believe she was that offended. I want to know, like, this is not a rhetorical question. How does that woman get through her life day to day? I mean, she went to a comedy club. I don't think that, like, it's fair, all things in comedy are fair game. I think we've come a long way from, like, let's say, really, really horrible, disgusting, offensive things. Like, but you're walking to a comedy club. I mean, chances are, you're going to hear some offensive stuff. Like, how does this woman get through her life date?

• 10:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know. And a lot of my shows, probably most of my shows are gonna be sold out in advance. Most of them have been, up until Florida, that's fucking Florida for you, where people are there to see me. And it's not as much of walking in off the street the night of a comedy show, because that's what happens, especially in a weekend. You wanna go see a comedy show. I used to do this. I mean, back when I lived in Atlanta, it's like, let's go see a comedy show tonight. You go to the improv, whoever was there, but I always would look them up at least a little bit beforehand, just because I know what I like. And I guess she, she didn't, because if you, even if you looked it up, it says sex before marriage tour, lady.

• 11:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 11:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I don't know how she got there. I don't know how she stayed that long. And then that's what made her leave, but, oh.

• 11:29Rayna Greenberg?

  You're so lucky.

• 11:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Incredible. So lucky. So, yeah, it was just, it was really fun. I feel like it bonded the audience together.

• 11:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Tampa, something crazy always happens there. Tampa is also, so we used to put people's dating apps on the screen and swipe through them. And this girl saw her boyfriend, she had just moved to Tampa.

• 11:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  So sad.

• 11:48Rayna Greenberg?

  Up on the screen.

• 11:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, that was rough.

• 11:51Rayna Greenberg?

  So crazy. I will say, some people's dating profiles, which we now are still active, even though they're not, they'll delete it from their phones, their profiles, but this was.

• 11:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  It was like, fresh pics.

• 11:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, fresh pics.

• 12:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 12:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Something crazy always happens.

• 12:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Something made to leave that rental car there. We couldn't run from Avis for a fucking year.

• 12:05Rayna Greenberg?

  We, I'm still under investigation. They think I stole that car.

• 12:11Rayna Greenberg?

  I have to pick up a car at the Pittsburgh Airport in two days and I know it's gonna be a problem. It's always a problem.

• 12:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think we talked about this on the podcast, but we had a rental car and we valeted it. And we didn't do shit to it. And then they told us they had a flat. We're like, well, it didn't have a flat when we brought it to you. And they couldn't get it to us. And so we just had to leave it.

• 12:32Rayna Greenberg?

  We had a show, what?

• 12:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  We were in Tampa.

• 12:37Rayna Greenberg?

  We had to get an Uber and we were like calling Avis, go get your car. Well, Avis was like, we have a location across the street. It was wild. And they were like, just leave the car essentially. Which people do all the time. If you have a rental car and it breaks down, you have to get somewhere. You're not going to sit with the car. We sat with the car, me and Tessa for hours. Hours, yes. And they just couldn't come get us. They said, just leave it. But then. One person did. I don't know what the person we were on the phone with. And then we had, between me, Tessa and our business managers had to make so many phone calls to Ava saying that I didn't steal this car. And I'm still dealing with this. When I pick up the car in the Pittsburgh airport in two days, I will deal with this. This is crazy. You're on the do not rent list. I am on the do not rent list. Okay. Well, tell me about your weekend.

• 13:17Rayna Greenberg?

  I just, I feel like sometimes you leave and we had some friends that just moved and people were out of town this weekend. I was really like left to my own devices this weekend. And so I went to Ojai and Santa Barbara and then I came back and I really, it was cold and it rained all weekend. I like didn't know what to do. I almost like got my car worked on. I was like texting your fiance like, hey, like, what do I do to get my car worked on? I drove up to Santa Barbara. So how do I even start to tell you guys about this? What? I booked a massage at this place. And if you guys remember, I took a trip to Santa Barbara last summer and I got a massage at this place. And this guy who was like pretty good looking, gave me this massage and we just like hung out the whole time. I've never talked to anybody through a massage, but like him and I just like chatted the whole time.

• 13:59Rayna Greenberg?

  And it was kind of weird and funny because someone's like rubbing you down in the, he was professional, but it is the nature of being naked and being touched is sexual. And he talked to me the whole time. So it was like a funny experience. And he's hot? He's hot. Yeah. So I booked a last minute massage at the same place again. And they were like, we don't have a lot of masseuses left for the day. It was a great place by the way, but they were like, we only have men. And I was like, that's. Perfect. Sounds great. I was going to ask, actually.

• 14:26Rayna Greenberg?

  For one in particular. He said some guy's name and I couldn't remember what the guy's name was. But I was like, it's probably him. And then I was like, I had a lot of anxiety all day about like, do I acknowledge that, hey, it's me and we had this nice time together? Like this is our second date. Like I was just a lot of anxiety about like what was going to happen. And so I'm sitting in the waiting room when I get there. And these two women come to pick up these other two women and this guy walks in and. It was not him. My jaw hit the floor. He was like, Rena, I look up. It is a six foot six, the most beautiful man I have ever seen in my life. I almost canceled the massage right there. I was like, I won't, I can't get through this.

• 15:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 15:01Rayna Greenberg?

  He had the biggest hands I have ever seen, the biggest smile. And he was like, I am so happy to have you here. I'm really passionate about this work. So what are we doing today? What feels good? What doesn't feel good? What parts of your body? He was so amped on this job and I was like,

• 15:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Don't touch your body.

• 15:15Rayna Greenberg?

  How am I gonna get through this?

• 15:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 15:18Rayna Greenberg?

  Thank God I started on my stomach because I laughed and like was talking to myself like, do not laugh, do not audibly moan. This guy at one point, he was standing at the top of the table where my head was, I was on my stomach. And he took his hands and he ran them down my back, down my sides, the entire way, like past my butt, down my thighs, all the way down to my knees. While he was standing up at my head, that's how tall he was.

• 15:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 15:42Rayna Greenberg?

  He ran his hands down the entire length of my body. And I was like, don't moan.

• 15:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Don't grab his dick.

• 15:50Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't know how people get through it. He walked into the room, it took my breath away.

• 15:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Especially if you haven't been touched in a while.

• 15:56Rayna Greenberg?

  It's like a week, actually.

• 15:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, no, not you. Rena, I meant, I literally meant someone who hasn't, not you.

• 16:04Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't know how other people do.

• 16:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't know, like a woman in like a sexless marriage. You know what I mean?

• 16:09Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't know how.

• 16:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know people like yearn to be touched?

• 16:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 16:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 16:12Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't know how. He was.

• 16:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know you. No one wants to fuck you. It's been so long. You probably had sex more recently than me.

• 16:22Rayna Greenberg?

  This morning, no.

• 16:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Then yes.

• 16:25Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I was so horny. It was insane. I really had to be like, don't, I, while I was on my back, I was like smiling and I like, I feel like this is probably what's for like for men when they get massages and they're like, don't get hard, don't get hard, don't get hard. I was like, don't lick your lips. Don't audibly moan. I didn't know how to like,

• 16:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Don't squirt.

• 16:42Rayna Greenberg?

  Literally, I was like, there is gonna be a puddle on this table.

• 16:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Seriously.

• 16:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Take the sheet with me.

• 16:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're like, do you mind if, could you clean up the wet spot? Sorry about the wet spot.

• 16:51Rayna Greenberg?

  The whole table was actually soaked because I was really cold in the room and he kept like changing out these really hot, wet towels on my back. So I was like all slimy.

• 16:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Thank God, cover up that wet spot.

• 17:00Rayna Greenberg?

  I know. I was like, this is like plausible deniability because the table soaked.

• 17:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Was he talking to you?

• 17:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, a little bit.

• 17:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 17:06Rayna Greenberg?

  But like not a ton and I couldn't tell. I was like, please be gay, please be gay, dear God, please. You can't tell in California. They all seem gay.

• 17:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right, exactly.

• 17:12Rayna Greenberg?

  So he opened up his mouth and started talking and I, who's to say?

• 17:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:15Rayna Greenberg?

  That was the hottest man I've ever.

• 17:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, my God.

• 17:17Rayna Greenberg?

  I masturbated every day this week.

• 17:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally.

• 17:20Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't.

• 17:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  This content will last you for this bank bank.

• 17:24Rayna Greenberg?

  I've really had a lot of sex recently, but like I don't, there are all of the people replaced.

• 17:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  You gotta go back. You're there every day. She's heading out right after this.

• 17:31Rayna Greenberg?

  I want to go back.

• 17:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, it happened to me one time. I think I talked about this. I was on a press trip. I think I was at the San Juan Marriott and the masseuse came out and it like took my breath away. And I was like, I don't, how are, this is crazy. Like I was so horny for him.

• 17:46Rayna Greenberg?

  I think that you probably think, not you, but the plural, you like, it's my dream to have somebody that hot. No, I don't want it.

• 17:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I couldn't relax. And then I remember talking with the PR girls after and I was like, you guys, thank you so much. They were like, we did that for you, girl. You know? And then they were like, we have gotten to know him because we come here a lot as the publicists of the hotel. And they were like, one night we went out with him, like drinks. Like, because they've gotten to know everybody and they were like, it just ruined the whole allure.

• 18:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Never meet your spank bank material.

• 18:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Seriously. I was like, okay, that makes sense. They were like, we like to keep him, keep him at the spa.

• 18:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, you do want to just like suspend actually knowing anything about this person. I just, it was really uncomfortable. I was about listening to Great Spa. I cannot wait to go back. Holy shit. And I really thought like, if he just touched me, what would I do?

• 18:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Lean in?

• 18:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, 100%.

• 18:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Which that shouldn't happen.

• 18:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  People get so mad. She's never stopped doing this. Seven years. She's like, I'm going to talk about massage porn.

• 18:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  No one's gonna stop me.

• 18:48Rayna Greenberg?

  He was totally professional. I was unprofessional.

• 18:52Rayna Greenberg?

  He, him and the spa did a great job. Do you think that like everybody that checks into that spa, like the girls at the front desk are like, she is about to have the ride of her life.

• 19:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  Seriously, like I wonder if they vet the women. They're like, yeah, she's gonna want it.

• 19:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I really did want it. I can't stop thinking about him. And then the other thing I did this weekend, I was so embarrassing. I spent so much time on it. I decided I was gonna become a fashion influencer. So I built storefronts on Amazon, Revolve, ShopMy. I did a link tree to my Instagram. I built all these things out. But like, I finally was like, I have a shopping addiction and let's monetize that. Let's put it out into the world. Let's show people what I'm wearing and allow them to shop for those things. And so I really, the amount of stuff I organized into like lists and links and stuff is crazy. It's unhinged.

• 19:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Is this a plug?

• 19:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, you guys should shop my.

• 19:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  I plugged my tour.

• 19:39Rayna Greenberg?

  You guys go to my Instagram. My shop, my links. I actually made like a really nice link tree, which I'm gonna like suggest that you also do it.

• 19:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Mine is apathetic. There's two pairs of pants.

• 19:48Rayna Greenberg?

  On my ShopMy. I'm gonna teach you how to make a link tree at a ShopMy. You're gonna monetize it. It's gonna be great. But I've got good stuff in there. People always ask me like where to shop for the stuff from my house. ShopMy, my Amazon storefront. Get in there.

• 20:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love this plug.

• 20:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, I'm not on tour, so like this is my, this is my career now. I'm an Amazon influencer.

• 20:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Make money.

• 20:07Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I'm trying to make money.

• 20:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  But you do, I'm saying like people make good money.

• 20:11Rayna Greenberg?

  People do make good money. I mean, I think that like you get served these like Amazon dupe accounts that are like, this is just like the so and so brand. Like, I mean, people, that's what their whole career is. Good for them.

• 20:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  But ShopMy and I mean, they're, they're really giving it back to the creators, the influencers. Like these commissions did not used to be as high as they are now. Like they're doing it right.

• 20:29Rayna Greenberg?

  No, Like To Know was the first company that did this and then ShopMy.

• 20:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  But way back in the day, like just those like affiliate links, it would be such a lower percentage.

• 20:36Rayna Greenberg?

  The percentages are high. They start at, they're anywhere from like 5% and that's usually typically companies like furniture, home goods, things like that, all the way up to like 20% from like jewelry companies. Cause like those are higher ticket items. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's nice though that these like creators that are just like posting their shit all day long.

• 20:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly. You're making these companies money. You should get paid on it. And I like that they know that now. So get on Raina's Linktree and fund Rainapalooza, everybody.

• 21:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you need to, I finished Rainapalooza. I planned it. I sent out the invites. It is locked and loaded.

• 21:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I have one more thing I want to share with you. This is a DM, multiple DMs, they keep coming. And I think I mentioned this before, that this guy had messaged me, I have a micro penis. Have you ever seen one?

• 21:16Rayna Greenberg?

  He has sent me that message too.

• 21:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Are you serious? Have you seen it?

• 21:20Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I didn't follow up secretly and ask to see his penis.

• 21:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, well, here's why I ask. So he is going in my DMs. I don't open these, I just let him fly, let him cook. He said, this is started on March 16th. That was, I have a micro penis, have you ever seen one? Then the next one, probably a few days later, can I show you my micro penis? Then a few days later, liberal twat. So I posted something political, he didn't know.

• 21:44Rayna Greenberg?

  He's responded to my Instagram question slides where he's written, I have a micro penis.

• 21:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's dying to show people this micro penis. Liberal twat. My penis goes inverted when soft. I love you mommy. Liberal. Babe.

• 21:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, oh.

• 21:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  It would be an honor to show you my micro penis. Ask Raina.

• 22:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's why I'd ask if you'd seen it.

• 22:07Rayna Greenberg?

  He's like, ask, ask Raina about it, she knows.

• 22:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then, should I eat my own cum? And then lastly, typical liberal woman hating on men.

• 22:16Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, is that because of Drew's interview?

• 22:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, he is unhinged. He doesn't know if he loves me or hates me.

• 22:21Rayna Greenberg?

  He changes his mind a lot and then he just seems to forget.

• 22:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Jenny Jones was like, wait, I kind of want to see. She was like, can you show it? I'm like, yeah, can you imagine? That's how I get kicked off Instagram. I just think he's so funny. Like one minute, he's like, my micro penis is this, my micro penis is that. And then he's just like, fuck you cunt. All right, well, bless his heart.

• 22:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 22:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Have I seen it? No, and I now I'm gonna have to block him.

• 22:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know, I should just block him. He's in my like hidden, but I'll look in there sometimes to watch him go and then he'll delete stuff.

• 22:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, and then he just gets back in?

• 22:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's really going through something. It's just so funny because we talk about Republican guys having these small dicks and it's like, there's a proof.

• 23:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 23:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  There is the actual proof.

• 23:02Rayna Greenberg?

  You outed yourself.

• 23:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 23:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Your inverted micro penis.

• 23:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  A man who hates women with the smallest penis of all time.

• 23:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, well, we're just gonna talk about our partners and then we will get into it with Josie. Okay, so honestly, I'm getting a little older. I don't bounce back after a night of drinking the way I used to. And that's not really an option for me. I like waking up really early, I like feeling good, I have a business to run and I want to feel good when I get up. So I've turned to Zbiotics and I am so, so happy about it. So Zbiotics, pre-alcohol probiotic helps your body break down. Listen, this is not my fault. It helps your body break down. Astalda, Astalda. Listen, you guys made me read this verbatim and that's on you. It's alcohol's toxic byproduct so you feel better the next day. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. Which is that word that I can't say?

• 23:49Rayna Greenberg?

  It's this byproduct and not dehydration that are to blame for your rough next day. And there is a proactive way to help with the next day instead of a reactive approach. So they come in these cute little bottles. You drink one before a night out and you can confidently just kind of plan on having a great next day. And I just, I hate when I wake up foggy. I'm just like not ready to go. People are asking us questions and I want to like support the people around us.

• 24:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  All the girls I was with in Florida all do it. Like outside of me, the podcast, they were like, "Do you guys use Zbiotics?" I was like, "Love that."

• 24:18Rayna Greenberg?

  And I love the idea of this in gift bags for like weddings, birthday parties with pre-alcohol and stay on track and not let all this summer travel and celebrations just fall to the wayside. Go to zbiotics.com/gge to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use the code GGE at checkout. Zbiotics is backed with 100% money back guarantees. If you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to zbiotics.com/gge and use code GGE at checkout for 15% off. Thank you, Zbiotics, for sponsoring this episode and our good times.

• 24:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, and I am telling you guys about PrettyLitter. This is for any cat owners out there. Of course, you want to keep your cat healthy and extend their life. I, of course, have a dog and it's just so important. I mean, I was with my friend this weekend and she has a dog and she's just so obsessed with them. And we were just talking like anything we can do to like keep them healthy. But if you have cats, this is really one of the number one things you can do to monitor their health. Because this kitty litter changes colors based on what's going on with them internally. So it can alert you if something is going on with your cat's health. It is so high tech, so incredible that they do that. So it really can help you have peace of mind, monitor your cat's health, detecting abnormalities in their urine by testing acidity and alkalinity levels

• 25:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  and showing the visible presence of blood. But it's great. This is the kitty litter that my parents use and so many cat owners use. I mean, I love it because it's really low dust. It doesn't like fly out of the box. It really doesn't have any odor. It controls odors and it lasts for up to one month. It ships free to your door. It's non-toxic, of course, pet safe. And it just is the best out there. I truly think that once you start using this, you don't go back. My parents are proof of that and they have a bunch of cats and I love all their cats. And we love all our childless cat ladies out there. And of course, everyone else that has cats and really wants to extend their life. And so this is really the best kitty litter you can buy.

• 26:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  And right now, you can save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy at prettylitter.com/gge. That's prettylitter.com/gge to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. Prettylitter.com/gge. And PrettyLitter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. See site for details.

• 26:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, and temperatures are rising. It's vacation season. We're taking out those summer clothes. And some of you might feel like they're a little beat up now. It's time to replace that summer wardrobe. So you can upgrade your uniform with Quince. They have all kinds of great stuff for summer. So they have 100% European linen sets. So they have pants, shorts, tops to go with it in lots of different colors. They have dresses from $30. So lots of sundresses. They have great swimwear, platform sandals. I just bought two pairs of shoes from them for the summer. I have these white canvas sneakers. And I also bought these suede mules that I've been wearing like constantly. And I love the light color for summer. Everything just looks so luxe and high-end and it's priced 50 to 80% less than what you'd find in similar brands. So I love the site and I love their prices.

• 27:23Rayna Greenberg?

  And there's so much to choose from and they only work with factories that use safe, ethical, responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. If you guys want to get a beach bag, sandals, any type of like cute summery outfits, they really, really do it right for the right price. So can't recommend it enough.

• 27:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just got the Italian leather hand-woven cross-body bag. I love a cross-body bag just for every day. Traveling with it, I always have it like with my carry-on and I just love this. It's in taupe. So it's like a nice light color for summer. I was using a black one and now I just got this. I'm obsessed with it. It's the best cross-body bag.

• 27:56Rayna Greenberg?

  They have great bags.

• 27:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  It looks like so high-end. I mean, it's it. It's really nice, but $99.90, under 100 bucks.

• 28:01Rayna Greenberg?

  All right. Well, treat your closet to a little summer glow up with Quince. Go to quince.com/gge for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's Q U I N C E dot com slash G G E to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince dot com slash G G E.

• 28:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, let's get into it.

• 28:19Rayna Greenberg?

  All right, guys, we are very excited to welcome our guest today. She is a broadcaster, a voiceover artist, and a poet. She has worked for some of the largest media companies in North America as an on-air personality and radio host. She has amassed nearly 2 million followers, recording viral poetry about love, friendship, loss, body image, all from the privacy of her soundproof closet. Her debut book, I Hope You Remember, is out tomorrow. Please welcome to the show Josie Balka.

• 28:45Speaker 00

  Thank you, guys, for having me.

• 28:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Wait, this book, I just need to give you guys a warning. Like, read this. I was having trouble getting through it, and I'm like in a happy, healthy, I want to cry right now. It is so beautiful. Like, you just need to be in a safe space when you guys read this. If you're really dealing with something, just be careful. Read with caution.

• 29:05Speaker 00

  Well, thank you for saying that.

• 29:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's so wonderful. Like, I was just reading just casually this morning, perusing one, started crying. I'm like, what, am I okay? It's just, it's really beautiful. And like, we'll talk about it more, but anyway.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  That's so nice.

• 29:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just wanted to warn you guys going in.

• 29:18Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 29:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, Josie, and then read with caution.

• 29:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Your writing, I told, like, rocks me to my core. I said to Ashley, I was going through this sort of like, ending a situationship kind of thing. And like, the amount of times I was in the fetal position, listening to your content. But I first came across your content because you wrote this poem about body image and the way you feel about your body. And I referenced it on our Dr. Barrett episode last summer. And I'd never heard somebody speak about their body in this way. And you said this line, and you'll have to tell me the exact quote, but you said, I never saw somebody's body on a beach and ever thought about it again.

• 29:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:49Rayna Greenberg?

  What's the line?

• 29:50Speaker 00

  I've never seen someone at a public pool with such a memorable body that I think about it ever again, whether it's like, super good or super bad. And not that there's like, a super bad body, but I just was thinking about swimming and how much trauma I've attached to going swimming in my life. And I was like, wait, I've never remembered anybody else. I don't think people are looking at me.

• 30:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally. I mean, you think about some of the

• 30:12Rayna Greenberg?

  Most traumatizing moments as a kid was like bathing suit related or

• 30:17Speaker 00

  A kid, last week.

• 30:20Rayna Greenberg?

  I guess like growing up, it's not like a 10 year old, but like teenage. Yes, of course, even into adulthood, like early memories.

• 30:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Of like, I'm saying it's ingrained in us from when we're young.

• 30:31Speaker 00

  Well, I remember when it's like Sears, did you guys have Sears here?

• 30:33Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  With my mom and like trying on bathing suits when I was like eight and being like

• 30:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Shudder.

• 30:37Speaker 00

  What? Like, why do I look like this?

• 30:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 30:39Speaker 00

  Because I was always like a heavier sex kid anyway. So like, but I've struggled with it my entire life. So it's been just a thing constantly. And now I like that I've been able to write about it and other people are like, oh, me too. And then it makes you feel a lot less alone about it.

• 30:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 30:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, let's talk a little bit about your background and just kind of share the brief story of your, your life and career. I think it's so funny to say like viral.

• 31:03Speaker 00

  Oh, I know.

• 31:04Rayna Greenberg?

  I love it, but it's like, you're really bringing poetry back.

• 31:07Speaker 00

  Well, yeah. It's definitely like a very, very strange thing. And I remember the first time I went to go post one online. I don't even remember why. I think there's a couple of different reasons. I saw the Barbie movie and I was very inspired by it. Like pulled my car over on the way home and wrote this big rhyming poem. And I was like, what am I doing? And then I got home and I was like, I think I'm going to post this online. And I did, I don't think that many people liked it. And then when I was turning 30, two summers ago, I lost my mind over it. And then I wrote like a little thing about turning 30 and people seemed to really like it. And obviously it's like, sometimes you need other people's validation to be like, okay, I'll keep going. Cause nobody liked it. And I'd be like, okay, well, never mind. But that kind of launched me into this whole poetry thing. And I just never stopped. And I've had people be like, is that lame?

• 31:52Speaker 00

  And I'm like, I think so, but I don't know. I don't know. Like maybe not.

• 31:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Is what?

• 31:57Speaker 00

  Doing poetry. I don't know. It's just kind of random.

• 31:59Rayna Greenberg?

  The way that you are able to just encapsulate the human experience in such a beautiful, brief way. And I've like gone back to your writing, like in friendship breakups and like the ending of a sort of toxic relationship. And even like the body image stuff, like you're just able to very quickly sum up how a lot of people feel. And I think about that line, like no one's looking at you at a public pool and ever thinking about you again. And it has ruined my entire day.

• 32:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:25Rayna Greenberg?

  I said to Ashley years that we were on our way to Cancun and I said, I finally feel free of this feeling of like, Starving myself for a week leading up to a beach vacation and what a freeing feeling. But like, I was ruled by that my entire life.

• 32:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yep. I think I certainly notice people's bodies, but I think I notice the way they carry themselves. I know that I've had moments on the beach or at the pool seen, and I'm really happy with my body now, but I haven't always been and seeing a woman that maybe like had a certain body type like me or had cellulite or whatever she had going on and like her wearing a two piece, carrying herself, looking so confident, like that is helpful to me.

• 33:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, yeah.

• 33:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's what I think when I look at women's bodies.

• 33:06Speaker 00

  Oh, I think you like notice it for sure, but I would never carry it with me to like a week later.

• 33:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, sure.

• 33:11Speaker 00

  And be like, guys, I was at the beach last week and I saw like, you know, like I just wouldn't bring it forward.

• 33:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 33:16Speaker 00

  And I think in the moment, like if you have a different body that like looks a little different, and I've had this happen before where like I have a lot of stretch marks, I have scars from plastic surgeries and stuff where people will be like, oh, wow, like you're so brave to to wear that. And I'm like, what? Like, really? And then, so they are noticing, but I don't think they're going to like their friends at dinner. Yeah, exactly.

• 33:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just, I mean, I guess I noticed that people, when they carry themselves with confidence more than like what their body looks like. I don't know.

• 33:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, I, so the day I met Ashley, we were in Aruba, so I met her at a dinner. And the next morning, we went to this catamaran with all these people and we were all in bathing suits. And there was like a conga line of people in bikinis dancing around the boat. And we had just eaten lunch, rice at like 10 a.m. It was rice, it was rice for breakfast, full on carbs. And I looked great, by the way, but and never in a million years would I've gotten up and gotten in that conga line. Ashley, in her bikini, jumps into the conga line and she's dancing around the boat with all these strangers. And I was like, that's the most confident person I've ever seen in my life.

• 34:15Speaker 00

  That, that lasts though, like that, that lasts.

• 34:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was like, I want to be her friend.

• 34:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's so funny.

• 34:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  We'll post a video, you guys can go to YouTube and we'll show it.

• 34:25Rayna Greenberg?

  But that's to your point, Ashley, that's what sticks with you about a person is like,

• 34:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 34:30Rayna Greenberg?

  When somebody can be so mid, no, I'm just kidding.

• 34:33Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't want to sound like I'm saying that, you know, but like when somebody's just like, I'm in a bikini. I just had lunch and I'm gonna go have fun.

• 34:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 34:39Rayna Greenberg?

  You know, like that really stuck with me and she looked great and she's always looked great. I wouldn't have done it.

• 34:45Speaker 00

  I can't believe she went looking like that in that.

• 34:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Are you calling me brave?

• 34:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm calling you brave.

• 34:49Rayna Greenberg?

  But like me, I probably weighed 115 pounds.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:53Rayna Greenberg?

  And I was one of the thinnest I'd ever been and I wouldn't have done that over my dead body. But why? Why did I deprive myself of this fun that she was having?

• 35:01Speaker 00

  I have this theory about just like the age that we live in now on your phone. And like unless our parents back in the day were scrolling through a photo album, I'm scrolling like flipping through to be like, oh my God, my body used to look like that. That's crazy. Like once every six months. Every day I get a memory on my like Snapchat or my phone being like, you were so skinny. And I'm like, oh my God, I forgot. Thank you for reminding me. You know, and I feel like we live in this age where not only are we looking at other people and being like, oh, I wish I looked like that. Or her, looking at social media, not knowing what's edited, what's not. Like you get pictures of yourself shot up your ass every day, being like, you used to look like this, or this happened to you, or this person that you dated. So I feel like, I don't know, nostalgia is like a million times worse because of like the modern era that we live in. And not only am I hating myself because of other people, I'm hating myself because of myself, you know?

• 35:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, that's like a thing. You look back, you're like.

• 35:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:49Rayna Greenberg?

  When you thought you were bigger.

• 35:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:51Rayna Greenberg?

  You're like, wait, I was so skinny. Yeah.

• 35:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:53Rayna Greenberg?

  And why did it like, I look back at times where I ruined my own day when I could have been having a really special time. And even, listen, this will be a lifelong battle for me to like, look at my body and like it. But like, we've been on Good Morning America, The View, and I've still looked at those clips. And instead of thinking to myself, yes, 90% of me is thinking, what a huge accomplishment.

• 36:10Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:10Rayna Greenberg?

  But there's this 10% voice that is so loud, it's like, your arms look fat in that clip. You look like you have a neck roll in that clip. And like, how unfair of me to do that to myself, to take that away from myself, what an achievement and still see that.

• 36:23Speaker 00

  Like whenever we get photos back from like being bridesmaids or something, I'm like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. And then I'll see them and be like, oh my God, or I'll be like, oh, great. What a memory. I'll post this online. But your first thought is like, what do I look like?

• 36:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 36:35Speaker 00

  And then, oh, what an accomplishment or what a beautiful day that was. And I think we're just like ingrained.

• 36:39Rayna Greenberg?

  It is. Yeah, we're programmed that way.

• 36:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:42Rayna Greenberg?

  I think it's years of telling yourself that people don't see you the way you see you.

• 36:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 36:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Like people don't criticize you the way you criticize yourself.

• 36:49Speaker 00

  Oh, totally.

• 36:50Rayna Greenberg?

  So.

• 36:50Speaker 00

  But I feel like sometimes I get like opposite body dysmorphia where I'll think I look so good. And then I'll see a picture and be like, oh my God, like what was I thinking wearing that? But that's the opposite of what I'm trying to read.

• 37:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Outfit regret is a whole nother thing. I wore that baby shower on Saturday. I just, when you're in the moment and you realize you hate what you wore

• 37:07Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 37:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you have to be in it, you have to get pictures in it, like realizing you've dressed inappropriately. It wasn't inappropriate, but I didn't want to wear that. Like, I have so many better looks at home.

• 37:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then when it washed over me, I was like, I hate, I hate myself.

• 37:19Speaker 00

  The whole day is ruined.

• 37:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  The whole day, yeah.

• 37:20Speaker 00

  Today, we were sitting in the lobby of our hotel waiting to come here and I got my fiance to take a picture of me at the table. I was like, just let me see. And he showed me the phone and I was like, well, you can't win them all, I guess. Like, I'm already, my suitcase is about, we're going, so let's go. But that was just like, immediately, I was like, well, whatever.

• 37:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  So tell us, again, we'll get into all this, but you work in radio and you use your voice for a living and do all of that? And you're still doing that?

• 37:45Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 37:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  I just want to hear like a little bit more about you and how you like got into all of that.

• 37:48Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then now you're a poet.

• 37:49Speaker 00

  I guess, and now I write poetry. I have been a radio host for like, which is, it's always crazy when you get to that point where you say that you've been in your career for 10 years.

• 37:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Uh huh.

• 37:58Speaker 00

  Oh god. But I've been a radio host for like 10 years. I've kind of done like a bunch of different parts of the day. And after the last four years, I kind of landed in the spot that I wanted. So I do a morning show, Monday to Friday, on like a country music station.

• 38:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, love country music.

• 38:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, I love it too. I do that with my buddy Greg. He's my buddy now, we met doing it. But it's really fun. I like love waking up in the morning and doing that. Obviously waking up at four in the morning every day kind of gets a little old sometimes.

• 38:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  So we were talking about this recently, because I, again, I dabbled in some radio, but I was never on, when I was on the morning show, I was like, would come in it later in the show. But we were talking about people who have to get up that early. What time do you go to bed?

• 38:36Speaker 00

  Oh my god, too late. Like, my health has just gone downhill. And I'm like, whatever, it just is what it is, I guess. But I go to bed at like 10.

• 38:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 38:42Speaker 00

  I get in bed at eight. I go to bed at like 10 or 10:30. I scroll and like.

• 38:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  But then you have to get up at three?

• 38:48Speaker 00

  I was gonna say, I read, but I don't read. My alarm goes off at like 4:20. I get out at like 4:45.

• 38:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  What time does your fiance have to get up for work?

• 38:53Speaker 00

  6:30.

• 38:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  So he, so the alarm goes off. This would be, I think about this in relationships all the time. Like if we had a two hour disparity between what time I have to get up and you like that, we would break up. You could sleep in the other bedroom.

• 39:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, I, we thought about that because like he hates having to hear my alarm and I snooze it. Like I'm like a four twenty, four twenty-five, four thirty, four thirty-five, like snooze, snooze, snooze.

• 39:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not the snooze.

• 39:15Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, we all do.

• 39:17Speaker 00

  And sometimes I'll just get like a whack in the back to be like, get up. And I'm like, okay, I will get up now, but it's not great for him, for me. It's fine.

• 39:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not your problem. Yeah. I would have to be the you in the relationship.

• 39:28Speaker 00

  If he wants to sleep in the other room, we can't, but I'm glad that he doesn't. So.

• 39:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  My fiance woke me up at seven this morning. I was like, we're not doing seven.

• 39:34Speaker 00

  No.

• 39:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know I said I wanted to get up earlier, but I'm at seven forty-five. He has turned you into a totally different person. And honestly, I can't decide if I like it or not. My mornings used to just be mine and now I'm hearing from you seven thirty. I get like the first five minute voice note. And I'm like, where'd she come from?

• 39:50Speaker 00

  Well, also having a dog doesn't help with having to get up. Like we have to set our alarms on the weekends to get up 10 hours after we go to bed. So we can let our dog out.

• 39:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  For the dog. Yeah. Well, we've been getting up with the hatch.

• 40:00Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's so into it.

• 40:04Speaker 00

  Oh, you're not?

• 40:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love it, but he's discovered it and it, we wake up with these like tribal flutes and the light starts going. It fills her with the spa.

• 40:14Speaker 00

  That's nice. I've heard of it and I thought.

• 40:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  You should look into it.

• 40:17Speaker 00

  Well, I can't because then it would be tribal flutes and light and he would be sleeping for two more hours. So it would be even worse, but if I could, I would love to do that.

• 40:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  So can you tell us a little bit about your current relationship and then we'll back, back into your past relationships that have inspired the book? But I just want to hear about, you know, how you guys met. You're engaged and you're married.

• 40:37Speaker 00

  Uh, we met on a dating app called Hinge.

• 40:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 40:40Speaker 00

  That's, that's everywhere, right?

• 40:44Speaker 00

  And, uh, we went on a date and then we. Loved each other and got married or were gonna get married. But no, he's great. I uh, I was kind of at the end of my rope. I don't know about you guys with dating, but it's like, it can be tough sometimes. And I like, it was like a Wednesday and I had double booked two dates with two different guys. And I literally showed my co-host at work that morning. I was like, there's this guy, Steve. And then there's this guy, I think his name was Drew. And I was like, which one? And he looked at them and was like, go with Steve. And I was like, okay. And we went for forty five minutes, like two, or I told him I only had forty five minutes. I was like so at the end of my rope with dating. And we just like hit it off and had a really nice time and kept seeing each other again and again. And now we're getting married.

• 41:24Rayna Greenberg?

  So boring.

• 41:26Speaker 00

  It's so boring.

• 41:29Speaker 00

  But it's good. Like, when I met him, I was living downtown. And I was just about to move into a nicer apartment downtown. Cause I had just gotten like my dream job or whatever in my career. And I, he helped me move into it. And I was like, oh, this ruined now. Like if we don't last, you helped me move into this apartment.

• 41:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 41:47Speaker 00

  And I don't even get to have my like, single girl era in this really nice apartment.

• 41:51Rayna Greenberg?

  Uh huh.

• 41:52Speaker 00

  Whatever. It's fine. So I moved into that apartment and then he lived deep in the suburbs, which I purposely put in the dating app to not let happen. Like I was like two kilometers or miles or whatever, max away from where I lived downtown.

• 42:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 42:04Speaker 00

  And he must've been in the area while he was swiping. Now I live way out in the ends of the earth. So, but it's worth it.

• 42:13Rayna Greenberg?

  That's so funny. So I'm on this dating app called Field and it's sort of like Grindr in the sense that it tells you how close somebody is to you. And like, I knew this guy went out of town this weekend because I could see his distance from me. It went from one mile to two hundred and sixty miles. And I was like, trying to think like, what's in a two hundred and sixty mile radius? He told me he went away this weekend for work and I was like, I know. It's so crazy to like kind of have someone's location at that stage. Only like sex apps do this. It's like Grindr and Field. They're ten feet away. Go get them. Yeah, you can go have an orgasm in ten minutes.

• 42:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. And then you guys live together now?

• 42:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, we moved in together a couple of years ago when my lease was ending. And at first I just kept telling him like, you, I'm making this big sacrifice for you living in the suburbs. And now I've like changed.

• 42:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  So you guys both live in the suburbs?

• 42:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, we live now in his house. Well, our house.

• 43:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. And then you're getting married a week before me.

• 43:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's crazy timing.

• 43:04Rayna Greenberg?

  I said it was the same week and you said October 25th. And I don't know why my brain was like same week as Ashley's.

• 43:09Speaker 00

  Well, technically is.

• 43:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Cause I know the exact week of, I know the day she's getting married.

• 43:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Her rehearsal, I mean, she has like stuff starting on like Thursday and Friday. So I was like, it's the same week.

• 43:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, now I'm reading the wedding people and I'm like, should we start on Tuesday?

• 43:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Kinda.

• 43:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Should we start? Have you read the book?

• 43:23Speaker 00

  No. Is it like a long wedding lead up?

• 43:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, it's like a rich people fancy wedding that starts, which a lot of those types of weddings start like Tuesday. No, I'm not starting on Tuesday, but we can start doing, we can start doing something.

• 43:34Rayna Greenberg?

  Start doing stuff.

• 43:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  People are coming in Wednesday.

• 43:35Rayna Greenberg?

  I'll be back from the other wedding I have to go to. Yeah, on Monday.

• 43:39Speaker 00

  Kind of fun. We went to an Indian wedding last year.

• 43:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  You guys are ready to my wedding though, so.

• 43:43Speaker 00

  But we went to an Indian wedding in the summer and it was so long. Like there's so many different.

• 43:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, my fiance is Indian, so people are like.

• 43:51Speaker 00

  Okay. So are you doing like the?

• 43:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I mean, we're doing some cultural stuff, but we're not doing the full, even just budget wise, we're not doing the full.

• 43:59Speaker 00

  They did a mix.

• 43:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Four or five days horses.

• 44:02Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't get to ride in on a mini elephant or a mini horse.

• 44:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  You don't know that yet.

• 44:09Rayna Greenberg?

  You don't know that yet. If you guys ride in on an elephant and I get a mini horse behind you guys.

• 44:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  We're not gonna do an animal. It's only you on the mini horse. Just down the aisle. My brother will pick you off of it and put you there to, to officiate. Officiate from the horse.

• 44:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, you should stay on the horse while you're.

• 44:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Stay on the horse.

• 44:27Rayna Greenberg?

  I want your brother to do the Lion King thing with me. When he lifts me out of the horse.

• 44:32Speaker 00

  It's all about you now. It's like your wedding instead of hers.

• 44:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, I get to officiate.

• 44:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's so awesome. Sublining the wedding.

• 44:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 44:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, we're just gonna take a quick break and then we will get back into it. Nutriful, I mentioned this up top. I will get into, of course, everything that does for your hair, but I really think it helps with the nails too. This is the only explanation I have for why my nails are like this. Never had them like this in my life until I really started religiously taking Nutriful. And I was with these girls this past weekend and they were talking about my nails and how good they looked. And one of the girls was like, do you take Nutriful? Cause same, she was the same thing going on. But I really take it for my hair and I really rely on it. I take the women's formula and this is a supplement that is gonna help with your hair issues. Half of women. Experience hair thinning and it's nothing to be ashamed of, but it really can be something that can affect how you feel about yourself and your looks and everyone's root cause of hair thinning are different. So one size fits all approach to hair growth doesn't

• 45:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  cut it. And of course, I think when people think about this kind of thing, they're like skeptical, does it work? Is it going to work for me? But this is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement. It is trusted by over one and a half million people and is clinically tested to deliver real results in just three to six months. And there are different formulas, the women, the women's vegan, women's balance and postpartum. Of course, a lot of women experience issues with that postpartum. It is really easy to add to your routine. You take your four capsules daily. No prescription is needed. You can order online with free shipping and automated deliveries, which is what I do. And you can subscribe to save 20% and enjoy perks like a one-on-one naturopathic consult and a free Headspace membership to support your hair growth journey. So we love this. It has helped me so much. I can't honestly

• 46:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  imagine my life without it. It's part of my day to day. I take this and I think it has really, really helped. If you guys are dealing with any sort of thinning shedding type issues, this can really help you get your hair back to where you want it. So this summer, stop worrying about your hair and start making memories. For a limited time, Nutraful is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to nutrafol.com and enter the promo code GGE10. Find out why Nutraful is the best-selling hair growth supplement brand at nutrafol.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com, promo code GGE10. That's nutrafol.com promo code GGE10.

• 46:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. And Helix mattresses. I mean, nothing is more important to me than sleep. I sleep eight hours. I think it's why I look youthful. I think that's why I'm able to wear the shirt that says woke up sexy again because my Helix mattress. It is so important to me to be comfortable when I sleep and I have Helix mattresses in all my bedrooms. People have said to me, like, I dream about like staying at your house because your mattresses are so good. So if you go on Helix, you'll take a really quick quiz about how you sleep. So do you sleep with another person? Are you a big and tall person? Are you a side sleeper, back sleeper, hot sleeper? You just take like a quick quiz about how you sleep and who you sleep with and what they're like. And then they'll prescribe the perfect mattress for you and They deliver it and it is fantastic. It is so comfy. I get the best night's sleep.

• 47:22Rayna Greenberg?

  I just can't say enough about it. I think about it when we go to hotels, like that I miss my Helix mattress. I can't wait to go home to it. I just feel like it really supports me. I personally sleep on my stomach, here and there on my back. I just, I always wake up like feeling good, feeling comfy and well rested.

• 47:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  I have the Midnight Luxe. Love it. The pillows, second to none. Best pillows.

• 47:39Rayna Greenberg?

  The best pillows.

• 47:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  You'll ever sleep on.

• 47:40Rayna Greenberg?

  In the world, literally. So, we're gonna give you guys a discount. Go on their site, take the quiz, see what kind of sleep you are and what they recommend and take their recommendations. Go to helixsleep.com/gge for 27% off sitewide and a free bedding bundle. You guys get that. It's a sheet set and a mattress protector.

• 47:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 47:57Rayna Greenberg?

  With any luxe or elite mattress order. That's helixsleep.com/gge for 27% off sitewide and a free bedding bundle. helixsleep.com/gge.

• 48:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 48:08Rayna Greenberg?

  So, one thing that you and I were talking about on the phone and I was sharing with Ashley was like, a lot of your writing revolves around a past relationship. And you have this reel that you posted and it's in the book too. And it starts with, "I wish I'd never met you." And it talks about how...

• 48:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Watch with caution again.

• 48:24Rayna Greenberg?

  It also talks about like, that this person really didn't bring anything besides toxicity to your life. And then watching them move on with somebody else is a different reel. But you wrote this reel about like this loop in your head of like imagining them with somebody else, which really put me into the fetal position. But I wanna talk about it a little bit, because you and I talked about, you know, what it feels like to be in a healthy, secure relationship. And it's sort of a little less quote unquote, it's a different type of excitement.

• 48:49Speaker 00

  Yeah. I like to say that being in love like for real with the right person who's like good for you, is really boring in the same way as like falling asleep in a car when someone's driving that you trust. You know what I mean? You're kind of like, this is such a boring drive, but like I'm happy to fall asleep, you know?

• 49:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, and you're like, that was a good sleep.

• 49:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. Because you're not worried all the time. But sometimes that like worry and excitement that you feel when you're in a bad relationship, because you never know if you're even gonna ever see them again. Like every time you hang out, you're like,

• 49:15Rayna Greenberg?

  What a rush.

• 49:15Speaker 00

  Is this the last time I ever see you? And it like adds this level of excitement that you don't really get with somebody who really loves you because they never make you wonder if they love you. So there's not like this constant stream in your head. But yeah, the I wish I never met you was just like, there's just this one person. I'm sure there's more than one person, but like that I was like, you just brought nothing. Like sometimes I'm like, oh, I learned something from that or that was like really valuable to me in this way. Or like I made some really good friends and like I made one friend that I really love. But outside of that, I'm just like, I wish that just never happened. Like what a waste of my time. You know what I mean? And I don't think it's that often that something like that happens. But I think a lot of people do have that one person that they're like, why?

• 49:57Speaker 00

  Like, why did I? And it's like that kind of butterfly effect almost where you're like, if that one day I hadn't done that one thing.

• 50:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 50:02Speaker 00

  Maybe we just never would have met, you know?

• 50:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  And they wouldn't have stolen weeks, months, years of my life.

• 50:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Years. Yeah. And so are there multiple like people these are about? Or do you just even pull from like the human emotion? And I'm asking that because one of my favorite singer or songwriters is Dermot Kennedy.

• 50:20Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I think he went through an interview one time where someone's like, who's this about? And he's like, I just made it up. And people were like, what the fuck? They were like upset.

• 50:31Speaker 00

  Well, because they want it to be like a real thing. I don't know if you guys listen to, like you said, you like country music, but like Luke Combs has a song Where the Wild Things Are. And it's all about his brother, like dying in a motorcycle accident. And I was listening to him and be like, oh my God. And then I realized he didn't like have a brother. And I was like, wait, what?

• 50:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Sometimes people just be making stuff up.

• 50:45Speaker 00

  Like, how did you come up with that? You know? But there are definitely people that like cross my mind and like situations that I've actually been through. But I was in a cycle of like people whose names I don't even remember. But like doing the same thing again and again, because I was just thinking that like literally dating, but like, or not even getting to that point, but like everything was just this opportunity to maybe have somebody love me. So I was just like, okay, yeah. And you kind of fall into the same patterns. You're waiting for text messages. You're like, not even wondering, did I have fun? You're like, did they have fun? Did they like me? And I would never really leave a date or anything being like, oh, did that person like make me have a good time? Or am I just so fun? You know, like, because I always had a fun time, but maybe I was having a fun time.

• 51:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's very much me. And I had a dating coach. She's been on the show. Her name's Amy Chan. She's been on our show many times, but I was telling her I'm having an inability to really feel connected to people on dates. And she was like, are you?

• 51:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Pausing to let somebody else ask you questions.

• 51:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Are you like, she's like, are you spending a lot of time interviewing somebody else showing how great you are and how funny you are, but like really not sharing a lot of depth about yourself? And I was like, yeah, that sounds like me.

• 51:52Speaker 00

  Or getting to know if you like them.

• 51:54Rayna Greenberg?

  I, I don't know. I leave the date. I'm like, I killed that date. I was the star of that date.

• 51:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:57Rayna Greenberg?

  I was amazing on that date.

• 51:59Speaker 00

  It's like you're putting on a performance and you don't even give them like an opportunity to be who they are. Cause you're like, oh, I just gotta shine through this and like make sure that we get through this, especially because you like talk to people for a living and you're used to having to keep a conversation going.

• 52:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Mm hmm.

• 52:12Speaker 00

  So it's not only that, but also you guys have a really interesting job. And a lot of the time when you have an interesting job and you're talking to someone who, and there's nothing wrong with this, it's a great job, works in finance. They're like, I work in finance. You're like, cool. And then they probably have a lot of questions for you about like your cool job and the cool people you talk to and all that kind of stuff. And it like gets in the way a little bit sometimes.

• 52:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Would you find that? Cause you have a cool job. You work in radio. Like, would you?

• 52:33Speaker 00

  I guess locally, yeah, it was interesting because like people listen to the radio in the city, but I tried to kind of push away from that a little bit just because I didn't want it to be like, what if they don't actually think I'm cool? They just think that I do cool stuff, you know, and that might cross your mind too sometimes when you're dating.

• 52:47Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm just thinking about like trying to find other topics other than my work life.

• 52:51Speaker 00

  It's hard.

• 52:52Rayna Greenberg?

  What Ashley and I do is so fun. I'm, we get to record two episodes a week. We're on tour all the time.

• 52:57Speaker 00

  You run your business.

• 52:57Rayna Greenberg?

  We own a sex toy company.

• 52:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's crazy.

• 52:59Rayna Greenberg?

  And I have been thinking like, what kind of questions can I ask people and like lines of conversation that have nothing to do with what I do for work?

• 53:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:07Rayna Greenberg?

  I went out with a guy that I just goes to me. It was, it was terrible. We slept together, whatever. But I remember the date and he was so interested in what I did. And I like looked back on it and we'd had drinks and I just, I shared too much about our business. I like trusted him weirdly. Like we were hung out for hours. It was during COVID.

• 53:25Speaker 00

  He seemed great.

• 53:26Rayna Greenberg?

  In the trenches together on the street in a tent, you know?

• 53:28Speaker 00

  COVID times though was different.

• 53:30Rayna Greenberg?

  So weird.

• 53:30Speaker 00

  You're like telling people your life story.

• 53:31Rayna Greenberg?

  But I walked away and was like, I just, I didn't tell him any like trade secrets, but I was like, I just like told him too much.

• 53:36Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 53:36Rayna Greenberg?

  I felt like I was being interviewed about what we do. He was so enthralled by it and like. I would rather someone obviously like me for my personality, you know, the way I am with my family, my dog, my friends than like the job, even though that's a huge part of who we are as well, but yeah.

• 53:50Speaker 00

  In those situations, when you walk away from that and you and like, I don't know if it's just like a women thing, maybe men go through it too, but you start to spiral because you're like, what did I do wrong? What did I say wrong? What did they not like about me? And then like, there's just something about the people that didn't want you that like really lingers with you versus the people who really did love you. Cause I feel like I've been in love and had really like a few really great relationships over the years. But like, I don't sit there and like, think about the guys that I dated that, that it was like nice. And we broke up and like both wanted to break up and we were like, okay, that's, sometimes I'll say, that was a really nice guy I dated from this time to this time. And I like say nice things about them to my current partner and like whatever. But the guys that like, didn't want you, it'll still cross your mind.

• 54:34Speaker 00

  I'm wondering like, when you're like 80 years old, if you're sitting there going, what did I do? Like, I wouldn't even like you anymore for sure. But like, I just want to know why you didn't want me and I wanted you. It doesn't make any sense.

• 54:45Rayna Greenberg?

  It sticks with you. It does. I actually, I mean, I think it's a good point. The stuff that we like, talk about at dinner for hours and unpack with our friends. It is the people that like, didn't behave in a way that I wanted them to. And the thing that like, sticks with me is like, even if, like if I didn't like you, but you like trumped me on the shitty behavior card, that really sticks with me. And I'm like, I didn't want to date you either, but you beat me to it. Hate that.

• 55:06Speaker 00

  But it's always funny because if we all have like, I don't, can't speak for everybody, but I think a lot of people have that one person too, that your friends remember as like that person who really messed you up and like, you were doing crazy shit. And you were like saying the most fucked things and you were like, he did this to me, but like, I deserved it. You know what I mean? Like things like that where you're like, oh, he didn't show up for this, or he got really mad at me for this. And now when it comes up, like we laugh and my girlfriends are like, remember? And I'm like, Kate, I was crying on the floor in my apartment every day because I was like, just so thinking that this was going to get better. And I like was so in love with that guy. And like, if, if everybody just gave him a chance the way that I did, we'd all really like him. And like, you know, that kind of stuff.

• 55:44Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 55:44Speaker 00

  But it's just crazy how you can laugh about it now and like, you've kind of pushed it off to the side. But it fucks you up like, and it did in the moment too.

• 55:50Rayna Greenberg?

  And you're like, who was she?

• 55:53Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 55:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Like to look back on my old self and my past relationship before I moved away from Atlanta, like, I don't even know that girl. I mean, I was obviously a lot younger, but like the yelling and the screaming and the drama and the breakups and the crying and the friends having to hear that all the time and sticking through it with me, thank God, but like I would annoy myself. And I couldn't be a more different relationship, different person. But I think it's also comforting to know you can change.

• 56:18Speaker 00

  Oh, people can definitely. I mean, I think that there's certain ways that we can change and then certain people who never do. And like, that's kind of like, I just have a feeling about certain people that they're probably still the same and I hope they're not, but they probably are. But I was just thinking this like on the flight out here, because I just think about the most emotional annoying things all the time was just like, I was like, there's no way that that's the same girl that I am. You know what I mean?

• 56:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, thinking back to who you were before.

• 56:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, like what you've been through.

• 56:43Rayna Greenberg?

  I think that it's important to like, give yourself grace and realize that like, we are different people in every relationship. And we had this great conversation with Esther Perel, I forget what she called it, but you know, everybody's just sort of like this figure eight of like, I do a thing and then you react to the thing and then I react to the way that you reacted to it. And I think that everybody that's dated me would just describe me differently. I mean, there's people that would describe me as being really avoidant. And there's people that experience me as pretty anxious in terms of like my attachment style. And I've just shown up with different partners in different ways and it's okay to look back and give yourself grace and say like, I didn't feel safe in my body with this person and I acted out of an anxiety, like an anxious attachment style towards them.

• 57:20Speaker 00

  And you also believe people when they tell you who you are, if you really care about them. You know what I mean? So like, if you're with somebody that you really believe could be the person for you and they're telling you that you're not good enough or you're bad at this, or you're not funny, or you're ugly, or you're fat, or whatever, like, you're like, probably, like, you must be right. Because if that's what you're hearing all the time and you like, for a while, I really think become the person that they made you think you are, which I guess is what like, the epitome of being a narcissist really is, is like, you get to convince everybody around you that they are different. And like, that's kind of what it is, unless somebody, yeah, unless you're acknowledging that that's what they are. But sometimes you have to walk away from it to see it from afar. But like, you become who they make you feel like you are. And then, once you come out of that like shell, and it can take years or months or days or whatever, how long it takes, you're like, oh my God, crazy.

• 58:05Rayna Greenberg?

  I just, I see Ashley in her current relationship. I wasn't around for the last one. I've just heard lore for years. If I could have dinner, if I could have dinner with one person, dead or alive, he's up there. But like she would tell me about these like crazy fights and the breakups and the makeups and the crying and all this stuff and like the toxicity and it just couldn't be further from like who you are today with your current partner. I can't imagine that ever happening for one minute, one hour. I can't imagine you speaking to him like that. He would never speak to you like that. I can't, you know?

• 58:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  But it like, it's always in the back of your mind. And I mean, my current fiance, we, I don't know if I'd call it a conflict. We just, we're having a discussion about some things recently. I mean, we moved in together recently. It's been

• 58:43Speaker 00

  That's awesome.

• 58:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  wonderful, but there's some growing pains, whatever. So, and you're like, there was things creeping. It's like, it's gonna happen. It's gonna be the way it was with this person. You have to remind yourself, this is a totally different person, totally different life, totally different decade. But I love to feel the growth within yourself and

• 58:58Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  the relationship that you're in. But you hope that like, those past partners have changed too. Like, I hope that my ex isn't

• 59:04Speaker 00

  I know, that they're not just, they're doing the same thing.

• 59:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  I hope that he's just like, looking back on a relationship in the same way of, I can't believe Ashley and I used to yell and scream and cry and be so volatile. Like, I hope he's in like, a nice, stable relationship, too.

• 59:17Speaker 00

  Well, I think that there's like, certain things though, that you just, after you get out on the other side and you can see the light again, even if it takes a long time, you realize so heavily how certain things are just an absolutely not for you now. And if your new person tries to do that, you'll freak out on them like you used to, but only in the way that you're like, I don't deal with that. So, that's gonna be a no for me. Even if you're like, kind of overreacting to it, it's just like, you've created these boundaries now that you're not gonna change. But I do wonder about the people that you think of that are like, the worst people, that in your mind, when you cross their mind, are they like, oh, she was nice, like, I miss her. Or are they like, I hate her too, you know?

• 59:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I think I know the answer of what my ex would say, because he's told me, but I don't know.

• 1:00:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I like that there's behaviors, it runs the gamut from how you speak to me, your level of honesty to how you are with money. Raina was like, even the whiff of that, like what she dealt with in a past relationship, she wouldn't even

• 1:00:20Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  like touch it.

• 1:00:22Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 1:00:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's like a hard line.

• 1:00:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:23Rayna Greenberg?

  And listen, we don't know how to deal with situations until we deal with the situation. Of course, I'm going to be better at it the second time around.

• 1:00:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:29Rayna Greenberg?

  You know, when I feel that somebody isn't contributing financially, a couple of times, I think I would nip it in the butt immediately.

• 1:00:35Speaker 00

  Well, it's like when you get food poisoning, you're not gonna like go eat there again. You know, you're just like, I'm done with that, actually.

• 1:00:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. I think the fear that we all had, I think maybe when we were younger, gets better as you get older, is that like, you're gonna leave them and they're gonna treat the next person better. And I'm pulling up this reel that I have of you. Let me turn the sound on.

• 1:00:51Speaker 00

  People got mad at this one. The person who ruined you because they didn't love you properly probably isn't going to ruin the next person in the same way. They may actually never do it again. And I know it's hard not to sit in the front row and expect it to happen in the same way that you're certain the train you're waiting for will show, or the alarm you set will go off in the morning. You can expect it, but you can't be sure. And you're not evil to hope the pattern repeats itself. So you can have more proof that it was them and not you.

• 1:01:17Rayna Greenberg?

  We can pause it and just listen to you talk about it. But like, I do think that we all live with this deep seated fear that like, somebody's gonna treat the next person better. And with time, I think you hopefully had the same perspective that Ashley does, where like, you're like, I hope their life is good and they treat somebody really good. But in the moment, you're like, I cannot believe I have to watch this unfold on Instagram and social media. And they're probably so much better to her than me.

• 1:01:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  And love her more.

• 1:01:42Speaker 00

  You almost are hoping that you're like, well, she's probably dealing with X, Y, Z that I dealt with, because that's just who he is or whatever. But in the same way, and sometimes it sucks to think about the same way that you grow, other people grow too. And I actually got like a lot of comments on that one, people being like narcissists don't change, like, and I understand that there's like a whole heavier side of that. From what I meant by this one specifically, it was just like the guy who you kind of were like, why not me? Like, is gonna pick someone else and probably take them out for dinner and book reservations and take really good care of them and love them and introduce them to your family, or introduce you, her to their family or whatever. And I think that's something that's obviously a huge struggle to think of afterwards, because you're like, okay, so you'd call me. All the time, late at night, two o'clock in the morning, and now you're like calling your mom

• 1:02:26Speaker 00

  about this girl. Like, why her? You know? Well, not why not me, why her?

• 1:02:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, not everybody is a narcissist. Yes, I don't think a

• 1:02:32Speaker 00

  No, exactly.

• 1:02:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  A true diagnosed narcissist could change, but people grow up, their life circumstances change. You, they meet somebody that doesn't trigger them the way that you trigger them for whatever reason, and vice versa. Like, people just grow up.

• 1:02:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I think that it's hard to wrap your head around that sometimes, but like, somebody didn't want you doesn't make them a bad person. It just means they didn't want you.

• 1:02:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you're not their person, and like, you will find your person and look back and say, thank God. I'm not with this guy. But it's hard in the moment. If you think they're the one, oof, and it's not reciprocated.

• 1:03:02Speaker 00

  That's the problem is like when you really, really think that, but a lot of the times, and I think this is a really great thing about girls and, and women and girlfriends and whatever. You'll be like, oh, this guy like didn't want me. And your friend's like, well, he's an asshole. And I'm like, no, he's not though. Like, I, he just didn't like me. Like, that's fine. He's allowed to not like me. But when you have all your troops rallying around you being like, he's the worst. You're like, yeah, he's the worst. And it's like, it's his problem. But I think that if you can come around to be like, hey, the best relationship for both of us would be if we wanted each other.

• 1:03:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally.

• 1:03:29Speaker 00

  You'd be totally trapped in this if you, if you stuck with me, because you didn't want that.

• 1:03:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Again, it's easier said than done when you're in it and you're truly feeling those emotions and they're like a drug, but it's not your person if they don't want you.

• 1:03:40Speaker 00

  Like, that's, it's literally that simple.

• 1:03:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. But that's so funny. And we've talked about this, I think we talked about with Jared Freed like years ago, where like, you want that crazy story to share at brunch, this terrible thing he did, and your friends are all like, he's an asshole, he's a narcissist. And you're like, no, I just, it just, I don't know, it just didn't work.

• 1:03:57Speaker 00

  Oh, I know. That's, that's one of my things. I have so many friends who will just jump down the throat of anybody else. Like, I'll be telling a story and they're like, she did what? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, hang on. I'm friends with her too. I'm just telling you a story.

• 1:04:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:09Speaker 00

  And like, it's really great to have friends that fiercely devote themselves to being your friend. But sometimes it can actually be a little toxic in the way that you're like, wait, you need to see both sides of this. And I think that like some of the best friends that you'll find in your life are the ones who will be like, I actually don't think, I don't know if he was, if he was the problem in that. Like, it might have been you.

• 1:04:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  We, we say that. And that can come with age too.

• 1:04:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  That.

• 1:04:30Rayna Greenberg?

  We will help each other see the other side of something that a conflict with a friend, with a partner, like I'm not a let me play devil's advocate friend, get the fuck out of here with that. But sometimes you do have to look at a top down perspective of someone that's not in. I think we do that for each other a lot.

• 1:04:45Speaker 00

  Sometimes you have to just be like, I feel like the best thing that you can do is not make somebody feel worse about something they already feel bad about.

• 1:04:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:51Speaker 00

  But if they're not seeing any of their own issues, you can like open their eyes up to them being the problem if they actually really are. But there's different ways to approach it, for sure.

• 1:04:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I think people overuse narcissist, gaslighter, pathological liar. Those things exist, of course. They're very abusive.

• 1:05:05Speaker 00

  When you're talking about someone who's not that way and calling them that and telling everyone that they are that, when people who've actually dealt with narcissists and abusers are like, that's not what that felt like, you know?

• 1:05:14Rayna Greenberg?

  And I, I always think about this thing my mom said to me so many years ago, I was with somebody that cheated on me all the time. And I spent so much time being so gutted and saying to her like, why did you do this? Why didn't he want me? Why did, and she said, in the nicest way possible, like, why did you stay? You knew that the person was doing this. And you know, it's helpful to, I guess, ask these questions, but you need to also ask yourself, like, why did I stay? What drew me to this? How can I correct in the next relationship? And I do try to like, look at my own role and stuff. And Ashley and I were going back and forth about something recently about this guy. And I did have to say, like, I have participated in this too. And I have nagged this behavior on in my own way. Like, I can't just be like, I hate him, even though I'm mad about something. Like, I participated in it, you know?

• 1:05:54Speaker 00

  When you're like, oh, they only text me at 2 o'clock in the morning, but you go.

• 1:05:56Rayna Greenberg?

  But you answer, right?

• 1:05:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, like if you're showing up at their house, why would they not text you the next time, you know?

• 1:06:01Rayna Greenberg?

  And those things don't help you grow at all. When all you do is blame somebody else and not take ownership of your responsibility in it. Okay, I have a question for you. So when you met your now fiance, had you been single for a little bit? Like, were you really like, I'm ready to find somebody and settle down? Or were you like dating?

• 1:06:21Speaker 00

  I'd been like frivolously dating. Like, I was just kind of like going on a date here, going on a date there, texting here and there with like different guys or whatever. But like, I had not been in a serious relationship for like a couple of years, I want to say, maybe two years. And I just remember, I was at the point of meeting, I'm sick of everything. Like, I had not taken a break. But I was in that era of like deleting the dating app, not only deleting it, but like deactivating it. And then 10 minutes later, making a re profile over again and like meeting the same people again and again. And I was just kind of at a moment of, I think I'll be done if this guy ends up sucking. You know what I mean?

• 1:06:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  This one I marked, which I love this and it's just if you're not the love of your own life, what's the point? Like that kind of thing. And you, the ends with you are the love of your life. Don't ever forget. I mean, it's just really like made me emotional because that's how we think. Like you should

• 1:07:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  love yourself and feel complete without a partner. So I was wondering if that came from your own experience and kind of feeling that type of way before you met him.

• 1:07:15Speaker 00

  I think like meeting him made me realize how much fun I was having on my own. And how much fun I'm having in like a different way because he's around. And like, I really, really romanticized my life when I was living in my little apartment. Like I had a few little ones and they were just like crappy and like ugly and I loved it. I had like one cup and I like love that time. People come to my house, they just bring their own cup. I was like, I was poor, but it was really fun. You know, and now we live in like this nice house and we like have our beautiful life and all I can do is romanticize how much fun I had with just me. And I'm like so excited about all the experiences that I got to have because I was by myself.

• 1:08:00Speaker 00

  And like, I just love me for that. I think I did such a good job of giving myself such a fun time. And I made such great friends and, and I found the guy I was looking for and I did it all just me. And it was like just such a great thing and it made my life such a cool story. Even just what's already happened and there's so much left, I hope. But like, I love myself more because he is so nice to me, I guess. Made me realize that I was actually pretty great the whole time.

• 1:08:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, also just the single years are so important. Like I just, I want everyone to experience that.

• 1:08:31Speaker 00

  You can't know until it's over.

• 1:08:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, I know. Sometimes I lay in bed on a Sunday night, just like having my glass of wine, having dinner, watching TV. And I'm like so happy alone. I'm so happy I don't have to do it with somebody else.

• 1:08:43Speaker 00

  So nice.

• 1:08:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  I felt like that. I felt it in the moment. Yeah, you always did.

• 1:08:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was just like, this is the best. I mean, I wish I, in the moment, I would like find these like core, deep core lonely moments.

• 1:08:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  And those too.

• 1:08:55Speaker 00

  Those are, those come, but I wish that I just had a little more of my shit together at that time. So I could have been like, wow, this is so cool. Like, you know?

• 1:09:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Also that, you know, like when I talk about the most fun being single, it was like when we were like started the podcast, we're making all this money, we were traveling the world. When I was in my twenties, single, I wasn't like, this is

• 1:09:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Amazing.

• 1:09:17Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:09:17Rayna Greenberg?

  Me and my one cup.

• 1:09:18Speaker 00

  You're like whore. I know you have nothing. My car smells like cigarettes. I was like, I'm out.

• 1:09:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, my car was a disaster.

• 1:09:24Speaker 00

  And now I look back at those times and I'm like, some of the biggest struggle points of my life, where I was at the grocery store, like, not buying cheese because it was so expensive. I look back to that and I'm like, wow, that was so fun.

• 1:09:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:36Speaker 00

  You know?

• 1:09:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes, totally.

• 1:09:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:09:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Aw, well, can we talk about friendship a little bit? Because you write about friendship breakups and I was asking you what your listeners reach out to you about and you said you get a lot of requests, a lot of song requests for breakup content.

• 1:09:49Speaker 00

  No, yeah, for sure.

• 1:09:50Rayna Greenberg?

  For friendship breakup content. And we talk about it a lot on this show and I think that, like, those are the relationships that get a little less airtime, but they're so, like, the friend breakups are so formative, whether it's like a slow burn or something like really catastrophic. So can we talk about it for a little bit? Maybe I'll play one of your reels.

• 1:10:07Speaker 00

  I was making a close friends list on Instagram and I scrolled past your name. I scrolled past your name and I didn't add you to my list of close friends. I had to stop for a moment in disbelief to come to terms with the fact that you and I are not close friends anymore. We're actually not friends at all. It's funny how when you learn about love, you learn about family and you learn about partners, but you don't learn that much about how deeply you're capable of loving your friends, how a piece of you can die with a friendship.

• 1:10:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. That's why I'm just so crying.

• 1:10:35Speaker 00

  I just, I find it so hard. Like, I mean, I obviously connect with everything I write because I write it, but I'm just like picturing me in the closet. Like, I play the piano behind everything, too.

• 1:10:41Rayna Greenberg?

  You're playing?

• 1:10:42Speaker 00

  Like, after. Like, I'll listen back and be like, let's score this track.

• 1:10:45Rayna Greenberg?

  But you're doing it?

• 1:10:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Amazing.

• 1:10:47Speaker 00

  But like, when I hear them back, I'm like, whoa, that's, like, it's weird to hear, like, from, like, in a cool moment like this. But anyways, yeah, friendship breakups are one of the most fucked up kind of breakups that you'll ever experience. I really, truly believe that.

• 1:10:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, because you're not supposed to. Like, we all know you're supposed to find one partner. If that's whatever, you're into monogamy and whatever you want to do. You can only have one.

• 1:11:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:10Rayna Greenberg?

  You know, if that's what the life you want, which is like probably the norm, but who cares? Do what you want.

• 1:11:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  So it's like, you know, you're gonna break up and go through these relationships. And that's not really what you're, you're not taught that about friends. You're like, friends are forever. I wanna sell, I wanna sell. Like, you're supposed to keep all your friends. That's obviously also not true. But I think it's harder for so many reasons and it feels so personal.

• 1:11:30Speaker 00

  Well, you don't get told that you like, love your friends in that way. You're not like, oh, like, you love your friends as much as you love your partner. And if something happens, that's gonna break your heart. Like, that's not something we learn about. You learn about like divorce and like breakups from monogamous relationships, whatever. Or whatever relationship you're in. If you break up with all your partners, that's fine. Like, that would really hurt too. But there's also what I notice a lot when I post about friendship and stuff. There are a lot of people who come in, they're like, I don't have that one best friend. And I always wanna be like, you don't need just one that comes to mind. That's kind of like your one romantic partner. It's just everybody that you kind of find along the way. Even if it's somebody that you see at work every day, it's still there. It's like a support system.

• 1:12:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I validate those people's pain as well. Like, cuz that is tough. I was talking to someone recently who was struggling with something. And he feels like he doesn't really have that, like, person. And I'm his friend, but not his best friend. And, you know, he can lean on me, but we're not gonna be like Raina and I.

• 1:12:27Speaker 00

  Yes, exactly.

• 1:12:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know, the first, the emergency contact, first call type of thing. And so I feel for people who don't have that. It's almost a longing that you feel for not having a romantic partner. It's like, I don't have that best friend. And there's a multitude of reasons. I mean, some people are more shy, some people have moved around a lot, they're neurodivergent, whatever reason. But it's, that hurts too. So I like, feel for people that you see that are watching this content about friend breakups. And they're like, I don't even have a best friend to have a breakup with.

• 1:12:56Speaker 00

  I almost think that it can almost be harder to not have any friends and to like, not have a partner. Cuz through that, you still have people.

• 1:13:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's my life. No one's life is better than mine. I have so many friends.

• 1:13:07Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:13:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, that's, listen, I'm just gonna clip that and be like, Raina's the worst. No one's life is better than mine. A couple peoples are better than mine.

• 1:13:15Speaker 00

  But if your friends make your life what it is. And like, I don't know, I would leave like dates and like nights out with Steve. Like, we live together, so we'll go for dinner and sit there and we're like... We lived together. We already talked about everything. You know, like, we're here on this trip together. We're having the best time. Like, we have a few drinks. Like, start chatting and then eventually we're like, but like with your friends, I feel like it just, the conversation

• 1:13:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Never stops.

• 1:13:38Speaker 00

  dies and there's always something to talk about. And especially when you have newer friends, you're like catching them up on things that happened to you before that they met you. And there's like different levels of friends and you have ones from when you're young and when you're older. And I think adult friends, and there's something about that in there, but like, I think it's like one of the most wholesome friendships you can find because when you're a kid, you're kind of forced into each other because you're learning everything. And then when you're an adult, you pick your friends based on what they've already been through. And like all these things that you think were the worst, other people think that's the best part about you. And I think that that's the coolest thing about the friends you make when you're grown up.

• 1:14:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love that. And I want to tag on to what I said about people who like, don't have a best friend. It's like, it's also never too late.

• 1:14:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, you can make a new friend any day.

• 1:14:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was thirty-two, thirty-three. I think, I met him in thirty-four.

• 1:14:19Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:14:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Anyway.

• 1:14:19Speaker 00

  It's like the weirdest way.

• 1:14:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  We met in our thirties and we're just like family.

• 1:14:22Speaker 00

  Do you have like a weird way you've met a friend in your like adult life?

• 1:14:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Jenny?

• 1:14:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, Jenny's weird. Jenny is weird. Yeah.

• 1:14:33Speaker 00

  Well, I guess a lot of us meet on the internet. That's, yeah.

• 1:14:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Sort of on the internet. I had this blog and I was looking for contributors at the time. I was trying to kind of grow and scale it. And a girl I knew from Atlanta was like, my friend Jenny is so funny. She should contribute to the blog. So she emails me and we collaborate on this blog. And then we just became like, we didn't even have each other's number. We would like email here and there. And then I hooked up with this guy. I met him on Tinder. Hooked up with him in the Doubletree downtown in Atlanta. He was there for business. And I took a cookie on the way out.

• 1:15:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then he was like, you should come to Austin. And I was like, yeah, I'll come to Austin and fuck you again, you know? And so I like emailed Jenny or DM her. I'm like, what's your number? Like, let's be real friends. And I'm like, I think I'm gonna come fuck this guy in Austin. She lived in Austin. I'm like. Can I also hang out with you? And she's like, yeah. So then I get, then I get a boyfriend. And I was like, I'm not gonna go stay with that guy in Austin, but I still want to hang out with Jenny.

• 1:15:28Speaker 00

  So you went?

• 1:15:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  So, yeah, so I was like, hey, I have a boyfriend now. She'd been following along on Instagram. She knew I had a boyfriend and I was like, cause I'm not gonna see that guy from Tinder, but I'd still love to come to Austin and hang out with you. She's like, well, you can stay with me. So I go stay with her, never met her in person. I kind of pre-gamed the meeting, cause I was like, I know she's gonna be cool, but like, it's still weird and I'm going back to her apartment with her. Like, I slept in her bed with her.

• 1:15:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, but it's like, but it's actually, but that's the thing about girls. And I truly think that these girls, it just like starts when you're young and then it never ends.

• 1:15:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  No man has this story.

• 1:15:54Speaker 00

  No, like, men don't do this. I recently had this girl reach out to me in an email. She lives in Calgary where I live and she was like, her name's Shayla. She's like, hey, I noticed that like in the background of some of your videos, you got some janky ass blinds, like they look, they look really bad. She's like, I have a blinds company, can I come fix your blinds? And I was like, I'm a blinds company. She comes to my house and she like brings all her blind stuff and she's in my kitchen and we're just chatting about life and the blinds. And she did a couple of extra ones in the house and now she's coming to my wedding. This was like six months. Oh, yeah. Like, I was like, do you wanna come to my wedding?

• 1:16:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love that story.

• 1:16:26Speaker 00

  Steve was like, just invite them, like, you're with her all the time now.

• 1:16:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  Go to the blinds at the wedding.

• 1:16:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, and the blinds look great. She did such a good job.

• 1:16:31Rayna Greenberg?

  I was reading a book this morning, so we have an interview right after you for Lindsay and Krista, who do Almost 30, and they have a book coming out. And they talked about friendships in your early twenties as being like contextual friendships. So you have a lot of friends just from like where you grew up, or your sorority you were in, or at work, they're sort of like your nine to five friends. And it's hard to like let those go, kind of. But in my thirties, I have a different type of contextual friend where I'm like, well, I have friends that I go to the movies with. I have friends that I'll go on food adventures. Like, I have friends that I'm like, let's go to Koreatown and bop around to three places we've never heard of, and they're like, yes, done. Like, I have those friends, I have party friends, I have travel friends. And that's nice as you get older. Like, I do have like two best friends in the world, I'm really lucky. I have two people that are just like family to me, and that's Ashley and my other best friend.

• 1:17:13Rayna Greenberg?

  But like, I have all these other friends that just, they're for this and that. And those are really valuable to me in my thirties.

• 1:17:19Speaker 00

  It can be so nice. It sometimes can be a little bit overwhelming when you like need to get everyone together, cause they don't all know each other. And then you have to try to talk to everybody at the same time. Like my bachelorette, nobody knows each other. They just know me, right?

• 1:17:29Rayna Greenberg?

  I had to divide them up.

• 1:17:31Speaker 00

  Oh, they've all messaged me, been like, can I sleep with you? And I'm like, no, I can't sleep with everyone. Like, you guys have to get to know each other, we all share beds. I don't know what to do.

• 1:17:39Speaker 00

  But it'll be like, girls always get along. Well, that's actually such a lie. Some of them will mostly get along, I think. But like, I think that, like you said about the friends in your twenties, you grow apart from them, unfortunately, like the friends that you met in college, friends you met in high school, like, kind of especially if you don't live in town anymore. Every time you see them, you're either gonna have more and more in common and feel like no time has passed, or you're gonna really feel the time that passed and that you don't really have that much in common anymore. And that can be also like a really shitty kind of friendship breakup where like nothing happened and you just stop talking.

• 1:18:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, and we say friendships run their course.

• 1:18:10Speaker 00

  They really do.

• 1:18:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  And if it starts to feel really forced and difficult and conversations and I have so many examples that are like people from college that still feel like family and they know me on such a different level. We do not talk all the time, you know, but they're all coming to the wedding, coming to the bachelorettes and everything. And then there's people from college that we did just stop being friends and that's okay too. And some of this is like, you know, based on lifestyle values, the way of the world today. I think you sometimes look at people like we just don't look at the world the same way and our values don't align. There's that too. And that rips people apart and that's okay too.

• 1:18:46Speaker 00

  That's a really hard one where you kind of see other people's values. I've got values, of course. I'm not very vocal about them. But if like if someone's super vocal and not open to hear your opinions, it also makes it kind of harder to keep a friendship alive. But like my mom has her friends from high school and every year they go on a trip still. She's like, she's almost 70, you know, like your girl like never ends. They're like laughing and like going swimming in this weird lake that they love.

• 1:19:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally.

• 1:19:09Speaker 00

  Have fun, you know, but every time she comes back, they have a name for them. I won't be able to think of it, but they have a nickname for all four of them.

• 1:19:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's so, I know my mom has high school and college and present, like her friends that she's made, I mean, she has three friend groups.

• 1:19:22Speaker 00

  I love the idea that this just goes on and on forever and ever. It's pretty awesome.

• 1:19:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  It can. And she's been married to my dad this whole time.

• 1:19:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. And he's like, probably doesn't even remember half their names.

• 1:19:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  He's like one friend.

• 1:19:31Speaker 00

  Well, guys. And this is the thing.

• 1:19:34Rayna Greenberg?

  He couldn't relate less.

• 1:19:35Speaker 00

  I don't think that we acknowledge men's friendships enough because so many situations for men is like they're friends from high school and they are all still friends and then they just don't.

• 1:19:45Rayna Greenberg?

  That's it.

• 1:19:46Speaker 00

  Can make any new friends ever again. Like it's like you have the same friends and the same Subway sandwich order and it never changes.

• 1:19:51Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:52Speaker 00

  And like Steve's friends are his buddies and I've just gotten close to a bunch of his buddies wives. Like two of them are in our wedding. Like it's amazing, but boys just keep their friends and they don't get sick of each other.

• 1:20:03Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, there's like a lack thereof of like new friends. We've talked about this on the episodes for a long time and I think about how women bond and men bond and like when I meet a new friend, we're sharing stories. We're emotional. We're talking about breakups or family stuff and you form this bond with somebody very quickly. Whereas like men, like one guy will go through a breakup and go out with his other guy friend and he comes home and you're like, what did they break up for? And they have no information. And you're like, what do you mean? You just didn't ask?

• 1:20:27Speaker 00

  I know.

• 1:20:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Like that's not all men lack depth like that. And but like even the men that are like that, I think have really deep relationships with me and their girlfriends. But with two men, they're not talking about this stuff.

• 1:20:39Speaker 00

  No, they don't talk to each other about it. Like I'll hang out with the girl for the first time and I'll be like, you'll never believe about her relationship with her dad. Like it's just like mine. And then I'll come home and his buddy just got engaged in like Italy. And I'm like, how did he do it? He's like, I don't know.

• 1:20:52Rayna Greenberg?

  No idea.

• 1:20:52Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:20:53Rayna Greenberg?

  I think my fiance is great at connecting with people and making friends actually, but even some of the stuff he doesn't know.

• 1:20:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:20:59Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm like, I'll ask them myself then.

• 1:21:01Speaker 00

  You're like, I could get that information immediately right now. Like to ask the question.

• 1:21:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Like even like someone that's really close to him is like moving and I'm like, why are they moving? And he's like, I don't know. I'm like, yeah, but they said they would never move there. And he's like, well, I don't know. I'm like, I'm gonna get this information myself.

• 1:21:12Speaker 00

  You're moving. Why?

• 1:21:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. Like I have to get in here. It's like sort of the fault of men, but like I think having emotions and talking about your feelings is like you're a pussy. So like men don't bring it up and talk about it.

• 1:21:23Speaker 00

  No, it's more just like, and I mean, especially when it's with these friends that you had since you were six years old. You're just like, we'll figure it out. Like you're just accepting what they're saying and letting it. But it's funny. He's it just doesn't fly the other way around. Like I'll tell a story and Steve will be like, and I'm like.

• 1:21:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. You have any questions?

• 1:21:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Ask me a question.

• 1:21:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's so funny you talk about being like to dinner with him and like not having anything to talk about because you live together and like I refuse to be a couple that's not talking in a restaurant.

• 1:21:51Rayna Greenberg?

  No.

• 1:21:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  So the other night we were at dinner and we were kind of tapped out. We've been together like the whole weekend.

• 1:21:55Rayna Greenberg?

  I couldn't believe he went out to dinner after we spent the whole day doing activities.

• 1:21:59Speaker 00

  That's, that's hard though. Sometimes you're just like, I don't know how she did it.

• 1:22:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  And we have a lot, we're buddies. We have a lot of, we're not best friends, but we have a lot to talk about. And like, I was like, okay, let's rank our top five favorite dates.

• 1:22:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  We'll pull something out of my ass.

• 1:22:11Rayna Greenberg?

  With each other or just in the?

• 1:22:15Speaker 00

  In life, not with each other.

• 1:22:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, can you imagine with other people?

• 1:22:18Rayna Greenberg?

  Like three other things on your five are just not with.

• 1:22:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's my next thing. Rank your worst dates, not with me, with other people. But literally I made him sit there. We had a fun conversation of our top five favorite dates.

• 1:22:28Speaker 00

  But sometimes you really, you realize too, when you're out with your partner, like we don't talk enough at home. Like we've been out here in LA for the first time and we had two nights where we really signed at home. Like we had a lot of cocktails and we're just like laughing and having the best night. And I'm like, we should do this at home. And he's like, I don't think we should pick up drinking this much at home. But like, other than that, yes, we could like chat more at home.

• 1:22:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  We should get drunk more at home. That's great.

• 1:22:52Rayna Greenberg?

  I like talking about that though, that some people just, not that you have, but like you kind of stop seeing each other at home. You're just like there in one corner of the house doing their thing. And it's just like, you forget to have those conversations because you don't have to.

• 1:23:03Speaker 00

  Well, it just sometimes gets like a little repetitive, right? Like someone comes home, how was your day? Good. You, was it actually good? I don't know. Like, you know, or if you have completely different jobs or you've already kind of talked everything out with everybody else throughout the day.

• 1:23:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Right.

• 1:23:14Speaker 00

  And you start, and like, that's the joy of being in love and having it be easy because sometimes you can just shut the fuck up and not say anything. And they're not going to be mad about it, you know?

• 1:23:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally.

• 1:23:22Speaker 00

  But yeah, it's definitely important to still explore those questions, ask those questions, have them in your back pocket.

• 1:23:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Wait, I have a question for you. Well, okay, your two top five lists, his and yours, were they similar or totally different?

• 1:23:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, it was kind of a, that is.

• 1:23:33Rayna Greenberg?

  I want to encourage people to do this with their partners.

• 1:23:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  It turned into like a collaborative list where we were kind of like, or they were our top.

• 1:23:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Five is a lot, by the way. Like three, I can recall three.

• 1:23:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  But we've been on so many dates because we were long distance. Like we're able to be like, what about when we were in Chicago? Like we were able to really.

• 1:23:48Speaker 00

  You would have met up in cool places too, right?

• 1:23:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And like our first date was just the most epic date of all time. Like we both agree.

• 1:23:54Rayna Greenberg?

  At Alice?

• 1:23:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  But then we went to Up and Up and had cocktails and then we went and danced at the folly. We were making out. Clearing beer bottles around us. I was like straddling him on that couch. Like it was just an epic New York date.

• 1:24:07Rayna Greenberg?

  They started having this, he took the train to New York to meet, and she was having the like pre-drinks before dinner with him. And me and like my other best friend and one of our friends were hiding in the window.

• 1:24:18Speaker 00

  You did that?

• 1:24:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. Oh my god.

• 1:24:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  We looked so uncomfortable too. We, he's just kinda hunched over.

• 1:24:23Speaker 00

  Did you have pictures of them?

• 1:24:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, we'll put it on the screen.

• 1:24:26Rayna Greenberg?

  I took pictures. And it's funny, like, I always think you don't know that you're living such a special moment. Like, I get like sort of emotional thinking, my, my other best friend is getting married and I remember the day that she was like going on her first date with him. We were in our early twenties, we were kids. And she was like, I have to take this guy out to dinner. It was a work thing. Like a work thing? Yeah. And we were just like, he's so old. He's like 29.

• 1:24:52Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh god. He was like 28 or 29. We were like, he's so old. But like, I feel emotional, like going to their, like, they're getting married and I just think, like, I didn't know I was living such a pivotal moment in their life in that moment.

• 1:25:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  In that moment. Like, I remember Corey's text of this first date with Ham, this my best friend, from my other best friend. But, and we've been friends since we were four. Like, what should I wear? Like, I have it, like, in my favorites, you know, just like, that's the man that she's like, has three kids with now, you know?

• 1:25:18Speaker 00

  Oh, I know. And you just don't ever know when that's like in the midst of unfolding. But that's why I love that trend online right now called like the butterfly effect trend or whatever, where you're like, so you're telling me that if I didn't do X, Y, Z, I never would have met this person. And it's like, you could have just stayed home. And you can use it in a bad context, like what we were talking about earlier, when you meet someone and you hate them and you wish you never met them, like, oh, I should have stayed home. But like, imagine I stayed home, or if I didn't accept that job, or...

• 1:25:39Rayna Greenberg?

  The trip I was supposed to go on that I met Ashley on, I tried to cancel it repeatedly. I just, I couldn't line the dates up because I had these two weddings in between this week. And I was like, if you guys can't make it, these exact dates, it was like an influencer trip. I, I was like, I just can't come.

• 1:25:53Speaker 00

  Can you imagine?

• 1:25:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  They changed the date for Reina. Well, you said, was it your radio co-host that picked the picture for you?

• 1:25:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  So you were only gonna go on one of the dates?

• 1:26:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  With the two app. And did you ever ask him why he chose that guy? Or just a vibe?

• 1:26:05Speaker 00

  I think he said, like, he looked, he looked the way he looked.

• 1:26:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:08Speaker 00

  That he was more handsome.

• 1:26:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  We did that with... Bella, who was before Tessa, she had two guys on her hinge and we picked one as well. And she dated him for years.

• 1:26:20Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 1:26:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, see, that's crazy. I literally was just like, which one? I just screenshotted both profiles and he's like scrolling back and forth. I had also just met Michael, who was like a week before. So we were all new friends and whatever.

• 1:26:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:26:31Speaker 00

  And then it actually ended up being really serendipitous, too, because it, deep in the suburbs where we live, Michael lives one block away. So I ended up moving and seeing him every single day and living in his neighborhood. And he was like, great, should I pick the other guy? No, I'm with you all the time.

• 1:26:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I can't escape you.

• 1:26:43Rayna Greenberg?

  That is, oh, you know, it was Ashley and I, we'd met you today and you were like, should I go with Drew or Steve? We would have said not Steve.

• 1:26:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not Steve.

• 1:26:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Because in America, in America, Steve's a real problem.

• 1:26:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  This is just, it's a name thing. It's like, trust no Steve, trust no Chris. Like, we would have gone with Drew.

• 1:26:56Rayna Greenberg?

  We would have gone with Drew.

• 1:26:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not if we saw, we could have seen the photos and changed our minds.

• 1:26:59Rayna Greenberg?

  But also, you guys are Canadian, it's different. In America, it's a problem.

• 1:27:02Speaker 00

  And he's Steven with a P H.

• 1:27:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh.

• 1:27:05Speaker 00

  And I really led, like, like went into that because I love Taylor Swift. And she has a song called Hey Steven. So I like also was leaning into that, but.

• 1:27:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  We love a Steven with a P H.

• 1:27:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's better.

• 1:27:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, for sure. We approve.

• 1:27:17Rayna Greenberg?

  Way better.

• 1:27:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  And I just want to wrap up with the book. And did you have any feelings, imposter syndrome, like writing a poetry book? Like.

• 1:27:26Rayna Greenberg?

  I had to talk her out of it on our call.

• 1:27:28Speaker 00

  I was like, maybe, I was like, you ever have other nobodies on your podcast? She's like, what?

• 1:27:33Speaker 00

  But I, I, yeah, like, for sure. I think, like, I don't know if you guys believe in manifesting and stuff.

• 1:27:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  We live in LA.

• 1:27:39Speaker 00

  Okay, yeah, true. You have to, you can't live here. I don't, but this kind of made me be like, oh, I guess maybe that does work. But I had compiled all my poetry into like a book form, just to see what it would look like. And then like the next day, I got an email from an agent that found me on TikTok. And her name's Kelly, she's the best, and she's my literary agent. And she hooked me up with Simon and Lomond, where my book's coming out. So I, and I actually almost didn't take her call, because I was going to self-publish my fake little book that I made on Amazon. And she was like, just give me five minutes. And that's another one of those serendipitous things. But yeah, writing this book gave me complete imposter syndrome. I recently went in to record the audiobook in like a studio in town where I live. And I was just like, reading it, being like. This is mine. And also you're overthinking everything that's in there. So I was like,

• 1:28:22Speaker 00

  hopefully this was the right one to put in, or like, I wish I'd rearranged these two words or like, whatever. But yeah, a hundred percent. And I talk all the time to my friends about like, what if everyone hates it? But I think that's everybody.

• 1:28:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Everyone's gonna love it.

• 1:28:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, I hope so.

• 1:28:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, so I don't have all your content in the book and your TikTok memorized, but is there crossover? Or is this all fresh?

• 1:28:40Speaker 00

  It's like sixty forty.

• 1:28:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:28:41Speaker 00

  So like sixty new?

• 1:28:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:28:44Speaker 00

  Forty.

• 1:28:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  People will recognize some stuff from,

• 1:28:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:28:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  which I think is great.

• 1:28:48Speaker 00

  I clipped out like, or picked my like, favorite ones.

• 1:28:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Great.

• 1:28:51Speaker 00

  And then put in some brand new ones that nobody's ever seen before. It's like a quick read because it's like poetry, but I've seen some people who have gotten an advanced copy talk about how they like to read it slow. I used to love this poetry book by Shel Silverstein when I was little called Falling Up. I don't know if you've heard of him.

• 1:29:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Shel Silverstein wrote The Giving Tree.

• 1:29:07Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:29:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, so much.

• 1:29:08Speaker 00

  And I used to love just opening up to one random page.

• 1:29:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Totally.

• 1:29:10Speaker 00

  And I was a kid and just reading it and getting sad about it and then closing it and going to bed.

• 1:29:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, that's just whatever you're feeling.

• 1:29:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:29:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's in what, Loving, Longing and Living.

• 1:29:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, like three chapters.

• 1:29:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So there's just really good thought starters. I mean, I listened to you speak and it just, it makes me think about my own relationships, mistakes I've made, things I want to change, things I'm really proud of. And like, I think it's nice to just read a thing, marinate on it, write your own journal entry, you know?

• 1:29:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, thank you for saying that.

• 1:29:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. Okay. So a final question. Do you have a favorite?

• 1:29:40Speaker 00

  Favorite poem?

• 1:29:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:41Speaker 00

  In this book?

• 1:29:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:42Speaker 00

  Oh, God.

• 1:29:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  Our top three, top five favorite dates?

• 1:29:44Speaker 00

  Top five.

• 1:29:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  So you don't have to answer, but is there a few, or even a few that just you're like, extra proud of, or you feel

• 1:29:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:29:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  the strongest about?

• 1:29:53Speaker 00

  I love the sad ones. Like, those are my favorite. I love the ones that I've written about, like Steve, my fiance, because I love him and stuff. So like, I'm happy to have been able to put some of that in there. But I love the ones that are sad. And there's one that I was super proud of. And it's like, I go back to your chapter all the time. I read it again and again. Only thing that's as consistent is that it ends. And it's basically just like, how many times you can go through the same story in your head, re-vamp it with your friends, even telling your new partner about something that happened to you with another partner. And every single time, you're like, finding ways to put new notes in the margins of the story, being like, but what if this, and even if it doesn't really matter, it's not really a choice. You're just going to keep opening it again. I really love that one.

• 1:30:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love that.

• 1:30:34Speaker 00

  And then I really love the one that like, kind of launched me out there to everybody, the public pool one that we talked about off the top, just. Solely because it gave me such a cool opportunity. And I loved watching people's videos that they made to it. And like seeing so many bodies that look like my body. And like so many women like being like, I'm actually gonna post this for the first time and like show the way that I look and all this stuff. And just feel proud of it instead for the first time. And I just thought that that was the coolest thing ever. And it also like selfishly just gave me a lot of really cool opportunities.

• 1:31:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  When I'm scrolling and I get served your voice stitched over like people in like bathing suits. And I just, it really like makes me cry.

• 1:31:09Speaker 00

  It really, really fucks me up when people do like, I have a couple poems about dogs and they'll put like pictures and like videos of their dogs that passed away. And I, no, I don't.

• 1:31:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  I couldn't even look. No, absolutely.

• 1:31:19Speaker 00

  Sometimes I have to like, I'll be, I'll come back and like favorite it, but yeah.

• 1:31:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh my gosh, well, you guys get ready for this book. Read it with a pen, make notes in the margins, take breaks if you need to. I don't know, it just really got to me emotionally. It's, it's wonderful. So you know, you're the voice of a generation.

• 1:31:34Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm excited you're here. I just, I discovered you last summer and I just was like, I know Ashley was gonna love you so much.

• 1:31:38Speaker 00

  I'm honestly so grateful to be able to sit here and chat with you guys. I know everybody probably says that, but like, this is so fucking cool. I think you guys are so awesome and I just like love that I was able to come here and chat with you and also selfishly that I got to come see LA because I've never been. So that was cool.

• 1:31:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, this is your first time in LA?

• 1:31:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:31:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  If you need any racks, we'll hit you after.

• 1:31:55Speaker 00

  Well, I'm going to the airport after this, but next time.

• 1:31:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  The airport's great. Now I'm gonna send her down in a bikini before. But your book, I hope you remember, is out for preorder today. I think it's out tomorrow.

• 1:32:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's out tomorrow.

• 1:32:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  If you guys are listening, but get it. And also just anywhere else people can find you, tell people your Instagram and anything else you want.

• 1:32:12Speaker 00

  Just at Josie Balka, the way it's spelled on whatever you're listening to this on, on all platforms.

• 1:32:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, great. Instagram and TikTok. And you guys know where to find us, girlsgottaeat.com. I am Ash Hess, Reina is reina.greenberg, Girls Got to Eat Podcast on Instagram and TikTok. Subscribe on YouTube, share this episode with a friend, get Josie's book and we will see you Thursday.

• 1:32:32Rayna Greenberg?

  Have a great week, guys.

• 1:32:33Speaker 00

  Bye.