Would We Ever Invest in Tenant-Friendly States?

Are “tenant-friendly” states actually making investors richer? Ever since we started investing, people have always told us to invest in “landlord-friendly” states—places with quicker eviction laws, no or limited rent control, and fewer license requirements and fees. But most Americans will know that the top-appreciating markets like California, New York, Washington, and Hawaii are tenant-friendly. Are investors leaving money on the table by not investing in these more regulated markets? Today, we’re getting to the bottom of it. We’ll explain what a tenant-friendly vs. landlord-friendly state is, the real dangers of investing in a tenant-friendly state, whether rent control could kill your real estate investing business, and why not all “landlord-friendly” states are so friendly to your bottom line. The question is: would we invest in any of these “riskier” markets for landlords? Yes, but with one big caveat. If you can lock one specific skill down, you can invest in the most tenant-friendly states without ever going through an eviction, and make huge appreciation along the way. In This Episode We Cover Landlord-friendly vs. tenant-friendly states: the biggest differences between the two Do tenant-friendly states actually make investors more money? Rent control, rental licenses, and long evictions: how to plan for all of them States with the worst (and best) laws for real estate investors Would we invest in a tenant-friendly state? And if so, how would we protect ourselves? And So Much More! Check out more resources from this show on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BiggerPockets.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠h⁠⁠t⁠t⁠ps://www⁠.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-1277⁠. Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dave Meyer?

  Is investing in a tenant-friendly state a deal breaker? Or are investors who avoid them leaving money on the table? Landlord-tenant laws vary dramatically across the country. Eviction timelines can range from a few weeks to over a year. Rent control can cap your cash flow and permit restrictions can slow down your rehabs or stop them completely. But there's also a flip side. The states with the strictest laws are often the most desirable places to live. They have strong demand, strong rent growth, and strong appreciation. So today, we're breaking it down. What makes a state landlord or tenant friendly? Which states are the best for investors?

• 0:43Dave Meyer?

  And what can you do to protect your portfolio if you're already investing in a tenant-friendly state? If you own rentals or you're about to buy your first one, this episode could save you a lot of money and prevent a lot of stress.

• 1:01Dave Meyer?

  What's up, everyone? I'm Dave Meyer. He's Henry Washington. We're the co-hosts of the BiggerPockets Podcast. Henry, how are you? What's going on, man?

• 1:09Henry Washington?

  I'm excited to talk about this because I technically live and invest in a landlord-friendly state. But every time I look at lists of the most landlord-friendly states, my state doesn't make the list. And so I'd like to dive into a little bit about why I think this is landlord-friendly and why or why not that actually matters.

• 1:28Dave Meyer?

  All right. So, Henry, what are some of the factors that you think about when considering whether a state or a city is landlord-friendly or tenant-friendly?

• 1:37Henry Washington?

  What comes to mind for me, and I think what comes to mind for a lot of investors when they're considering markets and debating whether it's landlord or tenant-friendly, is they're thinking about evictions. So how difficult is it going to be to get a problem tenant out of your property? Like, that's what people are typically worried about or focused on. But you're right, that's just one factor, I think, that makes up whether a market is tenant or landlord-friendly. Yes, eviction speed is important because if you have a bad non- Paying tenant and you're in a market that it takes a year to put them out or more. That's a lot of money you could be leaving on the table. I, I was just talking with someone who has a tenant.

• 2:20Henry Washington?

  Whose rent is $4,000 a month and it takes a year to evict them and they're in the state of New York.

• 2:25Dave Meyer?

  That's 50 grand.

• 2:26Henry Washington?

  That's a crap ton of money.

• 2:29Dave Meyer?

  That's insane. Yeah. So important variable.

• 2:32Henry Washington?

  Right. Yeah, absolutely important variable, but I think people only think about this one variable when they're trying to select a market. And there are so many others that even if this variable is in your favor in the market you choose. If several of the, of these other variables aren't, you could still find yourself in a position you don't want to be in. So. Evictions are just a part of the process. You also have different rules around what kind of notice. A landlord is required to give a tenant before the eviction process starts. So. The eviction process is truly like an official process, but the eviction process can't start until you have given the proper amount of notice.

• 3:13Henry Washington?

  And so if you're in a state that has short timelines around giving notice. Then that can help you get to the eviction process sooner. If you have to give a lot of notice to people. That just adds to the delays because the eviction process hasn't even started yet. You're just dealing with the notice, which is like the precursor before the eviction. Process starts. And then on top of that, there are states that have what they call just cause rules. Landlords have to have just cause to put a tenant out essentially. In other words, you can't just go, hey, I changed my mind and I want to sell this property. So I'm canceling your lease in the middle of the lease.

• 3:52Henry Washington?

  In certain states, in some states you can't. So yeah, some of these just cause rules can really put handcuffs around landlords, but. In all honesty, I think just cause rules are like the tenants should have some protections if they're. Living in a place like, I think that's a good thing in my opinion, like you shouldn't just be able to put somebody out for no reason, but. It is something you need to pay attention to. And then I think the other big one people think about is rent control.

• 4:18Dave Meyer?

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:19Henry Washington?

  There are some states where you can only charge a certain amount of rent within whatever the market rents are. And then. Once that rent is set, you then are only allowed to raise rents by a certain percentage. In those markets and those rules can vary from state to state.

• 4:36Dave Meyer?

  Just to add some sort of data to what Henry was saying, like if you look at Texas, Florida, Ohio, Georgia, their notice range for eviction is only three days.

• 4:48Henry Washington?

  That's Arkansas as well.

• 4:50Dave Meyer?

  That might be a little short. I under, to me, like, I, I get why they are. I wouldn't be worried personally about investing if they said you have to give two weeks notice.

• 5:00Henry Washington?

  Yes, I think that there's some intricacies though, right? So in a lot of these markets where you can give three day notice, there are situations where you can and situations where you can't. So like in Arkansas, I can give you a three day pay or quit, but only if you've not paid rent, right? So if you've not paid rent or violated the lease in some sort, then I can give you a three day pay or quit, and then that gives you three days to either get caught up, or then I can start the eviction process. But if you're paid up, right? And I want to evict you for some other reason, I can't just serve you a three day notice. It's gotta be a 30 day notice.

• 5:42Dave Meyer?

  So that makes sense. I, that seems somewhat reasonable to me. I personally, like, I live in Washington state that is sort of on the other end of the spectrum. I think the key thing here is like, you know, when I talked to James, he owns a lot of rentals here. You just have to underwrite it. Like, he plans for this stuff, right? You know, if you own a multifamily, right? And you own 30 units, like, you're probably gonna have a non-paying tenant at some point. So you just have to underwrite that into your deal, which is why I wouldn't think about it so much. Just prepare for it. It, it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. It would only be a deal breaker for me if I underwrote it with a higher vacancy. Like, it's essentially just another form of vacancy, right?

• 6:22Henry Washington?

  Correct.

• 6:23Dave Meyer?

  So it doesn't work with that higher vacancy rate.

• 6:25Henry Washington?

  Yep.

• 6:25Dave Meyer?

  Then I just wouldn't buy the deal. But I wouldn't write off an entire market because of this personally.

• 6:30Henry Washington?

  I mostly buy singles and small multifamily. So if I'm underwriting a deal and it's in a market where timelines are longer to evict a tenant, I'm gonna prepare for the worst case scenario. Because as a real estate investor, a lot of the times, we're getting good deals because a current owner wants to get out of a headache, right? So they may know, yeah, I got a problem tenant in here. That's why I'm selling you this property. You go deal with it.

• 6:58Dave Meyer?

  That's a good point.

• 6:59Henry Washington?

  And I'm gonna give it to you at a discount. So you underwrite it so that you prepare, like if it's gonna take you a year, well, how much is rent? How many months are in a year? Add that up, add it into your underwriting so that you can take care of it when the situation comes, like plan for the worst case scenario in your underwriting. Then if you get it handled in just a couple of months through some other means, great, that's more cash flow, more return on your investment for you.

• 7:24Dave Meyer?

  I will just say, like, if you are concerned about eviction timeline, like, there is big differences in here. Like, I, I sort of worked with AI here to sort these states into buckets. And what you see is there are states where the notice period is three days, total timeline to evictions, like three to six weeks. And those are some of the states I mentioned, Texas, Florida, Ohio, Georgia, Mississippi, Arkansas, Iowa, you know, it's a lot in the southeast and the Mountain West. Then on the total other end of the spectrum, there are a couple of states that are just very slow. It could take up to six months in states like New York, New Jersey, California, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Vermont, Hawaii. Everything else is like kind of in the middle. You know, it's like

• 8:08Dave Meyer?

  you're somewhere between four to eight weeks. Like, most states are kind of in that range. So if you are curious about this for your own market or markets that you're going into, check this out, because I think that's the key to what Henry and I were saying. It's like, if you go into it, eyes wide open, knowing what the process is, you can mitigate that risk. But this is a considerable issue for certain people. And if you just want, for example, if you're a turnkey investor and you don't want to get into some of the hairier parts of property management, you might want to go with some of those states that have a faster processing time.

• 8:43Henry Washington?

  And when you look at that list, a lot of those markets that are more tenant friendly markets are also markets where you get a lot more appreciation, where there's more demand. People want to live in New York and they want to live in California and coastal areas. And there's a lot of kind of a, what's James call it, juice? There's a lot of juice.

• 9:05Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, it's got a lot of juice.

• 9:06Henry Washington?

  Got a lot of juice in those because you get a lot of appreciation and like real true wealth is built through debt pay down and appreciation, right? So like, if I, if I'm thinking about investing in one of those markets, yes, I want to underwrite the deal appropriately so that I can afford to take care of whatever tenant situation I may be walking into. But that isn't all of the tenant situations that you may have to deal with. You may, you may also put your own tenant in there after you take care of a bad tenant and that tenant doesn't turn out well. And then you could go a whole nother year where you're not getting rent. And so it's not just planning for the tenant situation you're dealing with when you buy it, but it's planning like, how do I operate this?

• 9:43Dave Meyer?

  One of the correlations you see is in a lot of the states where they're quote unquote tenant friendly, they're also have a lot of supply constraints. They don't allow development. You know, if you look at cities like Seattle, it's very hard to develop or San Francisco or New York, or there's just not enough room in a lot of those places to develop stuff and that pushes prices up. So it's just, again, all of these things are trade offs. There are two other regulatory things I want to talk about, which is rent control and another one that I don't hear people talking about, which is rental licensing. But we got to take a quick break. We'll be right back. A lot of insurance companies compete on one thing, speed. But if you're protecting

• 10:27Dave Meyer?

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• 10:53Dave Meyer?

  P L L C and learn more today. Most deals don't fall apart because of the numbers. They fall apart because of the financing. You find a property that cash flows. The deal makes sense, but then the lender looks at your personal income, your tax returns, your debt to income ratio, and suddenly the deal doesn't qualify. That's the disconnect because as investors, we're not buying based on our W2. We're buying based on the asset. That's why Host Financial offers DSCR loans designed for real estate investors where qualification is based primarily on the property's income, not your personal finances. So no W2s, no tax returns and no DTI requirements.

• 11:38Dave Meyer?

  And with loan to value options up to 80 or even 85% on eligible deals, you can keep more capital available as you grow. If you're buying rentals, refinancing or scaling your portfolio, go to hostfinancial.com. That's H O S T financial.com and see what you qualify for.

• 11:55Henry Washington?

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• 12:38Henry Washington?

  And because you're the sole manager, there's no hourly minimum to meet. That lets you use a cost segregation study to accelerate the depreciation and potentially write off over $100,000 against your income, even on your first rental. Add in cash back up to 13% of the home price, which exceeds $60,000 on some properties. With this massive cash back incentives, investors are seeing total returns up to 126%. New construction, A-class properties and inventory is limited. Learn more at biggerpockets.com/retirement or text REI to 33777. Again, text REI to 33777.

• 13:20Speaker 02

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• 13:53Dave Meyer?

  Welcome back to the bigger pockets podcast. Henry and I are here talking about the best and worst landlord states. People always ask me about this. What's is this state landlord friendly? Is it not? I think as we're discussing this, we're seeing it's not so black and white. There are regulations that you need to understand and mitigate, but it's all about finding the regulatory and return environment that is comfortable for you because regulation and returns don't always match. The markets with the strongest regulations don't necessarily have the worst returns. Sometimes you see quite the opposite. So we're breaking down individual issues to help you understand what markets might align best with your strategy. Before the break, we talked about sort of like the bad tenant mitigation situation,

• 14:38Dave Meyer?

  but I want to talk rent control. And I'll just say, I am not a fan of rent control. I think there are almost no issues that every single economist I've ever read hates, but rent control is one of them. It's pretty tough to find a single academic study that supports the idea of rent control. In fact, most studies show that it increases rent. I'm not going to get into fully into this, but there's been many studies that show that rent control decreases the supply of rental properties, which means there's less rental units out there and more people are competing for fewer rental units.

• 15:19Dave Meyer?

  And although it can decrease or hold rent steady in the short run, long-term, and there have been many, many studies of this, it shows that it pushes up rents. So for me, Rent control not only impacts you as a business owner and the flexibility that I think you should be able to have to have pricing on your units, but it doesn't even help the people who is intended to help. Like, why is there rent control? It's a whole other topic. It's obviously just politically expedient for people like they like the idea of it, but it's easy to sell the idea of it, but it doesn't work.

• 15:53Henry Washington?

  Yeah, that's what it is.

• 15:54Dave Meyer?

  And so I just don't like it. And I would be hesitant to invest in places with rent control personally.

• 16:00Henry Washington?

  People like it because politically it's a way to get you some votes quickly because what what people hear is if I'm a renter, rent's going to be cheaper, so I'll vote for that. Right? They don't truly understand the impact of what it is that they're voting for. And don't get me wrong, I think rents should be affordable. I think landlords have a role to play in making sure that rents are affordable. I also think states, local government, and the federal government have a role to play in making sure that rents are affordable. I just don't think rent control is the solution.

• 16:38Dave Meyer?

  I agree that I am not advocating for maximizing rent in every scenario. In fact, I think we've talked about a lot of times that I think raising rents modestly is actually a good win-win business strategy in many, many scenarios. The reason when we're talking about landlord friendliness, tenant friendliness, that I would be hesitant to invest in one of these markets is, one, a lot of times what rent control incentivizes landlords to do is raise rents more than they need to when they have turnover, because a lot of the laws are that you can't raise rents on an existing tenant, but if there's turnover, you can raise rents.

• 17:21Dave Meyer?

  And so what the what the studies show is that landlords then go above market rate.

• 17:27Henry Washington?

  Yeah.

• 17:27Dave Meyer?

  Because they know if that tenant is going to stay in that unit, they need to mitigate the risk of not being able to keep up with expenses. And so they have to go above market rate, which is just worse. Or the tenant. And so like, this is a reason I don't want to be put in a position where I have to be thinking about that.

• 17:45Henry Washington?

  Yeah.

• 17:45Dave Meyer?

  The other thing is like rent control doesn't work. Anyone who's intellectually honest and looks into it can see that it does not work. And so investing in a place where politicians are doing that just to get votes doesn't bode well, in my opinion, for what the regulatory environment is going to be for real estate investors in general. Uh, and so that those are the reasons why I would consider rent control pretty seriously in your analysis.

• 18:12Henry Washington?

  And as I was researching for this episode, just about rent regulation and where these things are happening, what I found was that the National Apartment Association was tracking around 172 rent control bills. That was back in the spring of 2025 and 131 active bills in the fall of 2025. And so these are potential rent control bills that are being looked at. Now, most of them aren't being passed, but that's a lot of volume of, that tells me there's a lot of politicians that are lobbying for some sort of rent control.

• 18:45Dave Meyer?

  For sure.

• 18:46Henry Washington?

  You know, I've heard about rent control since I started investing in real estate. And I haven't seen a lot of markets where it actually gets passed. But this research shows me that there is a lot of markets that are strongly considering it, so much so that they're drafting bills, even though they may not be getting passed.

• 19:04Dave Meyer?

  Politicians are reacting to the reality that rents are unaffordable.

• 19:10Henry Washington?

  Yeah.

• 19:10Dave Meyer?

  And that's hard, but the solution is to build more supply. Like, that is just the solution. Unfortunately, because of the way elections work in this country where people are reelected every two to four years, and because it takes probably five to 10 years to effectively build more supply, politicians don't focus on that. They focus on rent control. But I digress. Anyway, this is something you should think about in your analysis. One other thing I never see on these lists, but I have encountered in at least two of the markets I invest is in rental licensing. Do you have that?

• 19:45Henry Washington?

  No.

• 19:46Dave Meyer?

  This is something that exists in Denver, it exists in Michigan in certain places, but in certain markets now, you need to apply for a license to be a landlord. And the idea, at least in the two markets I invest where I've had to apply for licenses, it's basically they send an inspector out to make sure that the property is safe for, and they collect a fee, obviously. I'm also fine with them making it safe, but it is another thing that you should factor in. Because I've had fine experiences so far, but just like with an inspector when, or an appraiser, you kind of don't know what you're gonna get with some of those things, right?

• 20:31Henry Washington?

  That's so true.

• 20:31Dave Meyer?

  And so I've heard from my property manager, like I had one done a couple of months ago and they were like, man, you got lucky. I thought they were gonna tell you to change all these things, but like the property is safe. Don't get me wrong, but like sometimes you meet a persnickety person who all of a sudden you buy a rental property that you thought was turnkey and now you're investing 10 grand into renovating that property. So this is something that has become more popular in recent years. Just like, you know, in a lot of places, short-term rentals, you now need a license or you have to pay a fee.

• 21:06Henry Washington?

  Well, I just want to make sure that we define some of these words for our listeners so they don't get confused. Could you give us a definition, maybe a facial expression of what persnickety is?

• 21:19Dave Meyer?

  I feel like I just outed myself as like an 1880s old grandpa and just saying persnickety. So I mean, I think this is something to consider when you're evaluating landlord friendliness. Because again, like everything, there is a spectrum. You know, in Denver, for example, I think it's like 200 bucks to get an inspection. You don't need an inspector. Every year, but you do pay an annual fee per unit, but it's cheap. It's like, I think it's like 30 bucks a unit. So like, it's not onerous. But you know, in Baltimore, in DC, in Philly, in New York, they have pretty strict rentals. So this is just something to keep in mind. Like in Seattle, it's, I'm just looking at it.

• 22:04Dave Meyer?

  It's 115 bucks per the first unit and then $20 per unit after that. So it's not going to break your bank. You should put it into your underwriting. For me, the risk is more when you need an inspection. You should factor the potential for needed upgrades into your stabilization budget. Like when you're going out and buying something, you need to understand that someone's going to come in and tell you that you have to do something. I have not had bad experiences personally, but I am betting in the comments, we're going to hear someone say that they've had bad experiences in this because of those persnickety people out there.

• 22:45Dave Meyer?

  All right, so those are many of the variables on the regulatory side that you should be thinking about. Again, it's, you know, sort of the whole bucket of things that happen when you unfortunately have to deal with someone who's not paying rent or has had violated their lease in some way. We've also talked about rent control and rental licensing as well. But at least in my mind, the regulatory side is one part. The return side is a whole other thing because just like everything, regulation offers risk and challenges and operations that you need to navigate. But like, sometimes it's worth it if the returns are there, right? So I think we should talk about like, how to balance the opportunity for return

• 23:30Dave Meyer?

  versus some of the regulatory things that you're going to need to navigate. So let's get into that, but we do got to take one more quick break. We'll be right back. For my wife's birthday, I wanted to make her a new website for her landscape design business. So I researched a lot of different options. I tried out a couple, but honestly, it was really overwhelming. It was pretty time consuming and still, the site wasn't coming out the way I wanted it to. Then I tried Hostinger and everything was super simple. I asked Hostinger's AI to build a clean site for her business and it had a working version up in minutes. No coding or designer needed. Plus, its AI agent helps

• 24:11Dave Meyer?

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• 24:40Henry Washington?

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• 25:22Henry Washington?

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• 25:40Dave Meyer?

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• 26:22Dave Meyer?

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• 28:20Dave Meyer?

  Welcome back to the Big Brother Podcast. Henry and I are here talking about landlord regulations like rent control or rental licensing, or how long it can take to evict a non-paying tenant or someone who has broken their lease. And we've gone through each of those, what they mean, some tips on how to navigate those things. But I think we should talk about how much this matters and how to think about, one, if you're trying to pick a market to invest in, how you should be evaluating them. Or two, if you invest, regardless of where you invest, how you should be thinking about some of these regulations. Because to me, just like everything in real estate, there is risk and reward, right? And so you gotta weigh the risk and reward.

• 29:03Dave Meyer?

  For example, not being able to evict someone who's not paying their rent for six months, that's a risk. Is it worth it in a market with no appreciation and bad cash flow? I think you know the answer.

• 29:17Dave Meyer?

  If that's in a market that has really strong fundamentals, maybe it is worth it, right? So I don't know. At least that's how I think about it.

• 29:25Henry Washington?

  I mean, it all boils down to risk and reward. And so, first of all, if you're trying to pick a market, landlord tenant friendliness is probably further down the list for me in terms of what I'm considering. I'm first looking at how much money I'm trying to make, when I'm trying to make it. Next, I'm looking at what strategy I want to do that's going to get me to those numbers. Third, I'm looking at what markets do those strategies work in? And then I'm going to start to narrow down that list of markets. If I have like 15 markets that I can do this strategy in. I'm going to start narrowing down those markets, still not by landlord tenant friendliness yet. I'm going to be looking at affordability of the market. I'm going to be looking at, is it a place I want to go visit? I'm going to be looking at, is it a place I have some sort

• 30:08Henry Washington?

  of superpower in? Do I know people? Have I lived there? All of these things come first to me. And then, once I get it down to a list of maybe three to five places that I want to invest, then I'll dig into the landlord tenant rules and then determine how much of an impact I think that may have on me being able to get to my financial goals. And if, if it's way riskier, in other words, if the risk is high, that I'm gonna have more problems that are going to cause me not to hit my financial goals, then I'm not going to choose that market. But if it's more of an even risk to reward ratio, I'd probably still consider that market. And so I think people give landlord friendliness and tenant friendliness way too much attention.

• 30:52Dave Meyer?

  I agree.

• 30:53Henry Washington?

  Yes, you should pay attention to it, but it is not on, not even on my top five list of things that I'm focused on when I'm evaluating a market.

• 31:00Dave Meyer?

  Same.

• 31:01Henry Washington?

  And then landlords, us, this is for us. We always want to find an excuse for us not having to be good at the one thing we really need to be good at in order for us to be good landlords. And that is tenant selection. Every single landlord, whether you're managing your properties yourself, or you're outsourcing it to third party, our job is to be very good at tenant selection. It doesn't matter if you're renting in D-class neighborhoods or A-class neighborhoods. Just because you got an A-class property, doesn't mean you're going to get an A-class tenant. You can have an F-class tenant in an A-class property, happens all the time. You have to be good

• 31:46Henry Washington?

  at tenant selection. And a lot of landlords don't take the time to figure out how to get good at that. And we rely on all of these outside sources to be good at it for us. We want our property manager to be good at it for us. We want the, the laws and local regulations to save us when we're not good at it. And that's not what they're there for.

• 32:05Dave Meyer?

  That's such a good point. Yes.

• 32:07Henry Washington?

  To think about it and account for it, yes. In the markets where it is a much more tenant friendly state. Yes, you need to underwrite for it. You need to have the cash reserves for when situations go bad. You need to have the proper real estate attorney to help you navigate through any of these situations. All of those things are things you need to have to prepare yourself. Yes, absolutely. But the one thing that needs to happen in order to keep you out of those situations is on you. Be better at selecting tenants.

• 32:36Dave Meyer?

  No notes.

• 32:39Dave Meyer?

  First and foremost, this is something that happens sometimes, unfortunately. I'll be honest, I've never evicted someone. I've threatened to evict people. I've had to file to evict people, but I've been fortunate in being able to do that because I've gotten good at tenant selection. Now, I'm sure that will change at some point. You know, there's an inevitability to this thing if you're in this long enough. But I will just say that you have a good deal of control over this. What quote unquote, a good tenant is, is also subjective. You need to get good at finding someone and putting them in a situation where they can succeed as a tenant, where they are going to pay.

• 33:24Dave Meyer?

  That means not demanding the highest amount of rent and finding someone who is stretching to get into that unit so you can make an extra 15 bucks a month, right? Like, that is not a good idea. Like, if you are in a market, if you are buying A-class properties in New York City and you're worried about tenant laws, you're crazy. Like, you don't need to worry about that. You're renting it to someone who probably has a very high paying job and can pay the rent five times over. Like, that is not a challenge. That is not something you should be thinking about. If you're buying C-class property in a very unaffordable market, where people are stretching themselves to get into your unit, then you should take it a little bit more seriously, right?

• 34:08Dave Meyer?

  That's where you should be underwriting these things. But as Henry said, It's like pretty low on my list. I think much, much, much more about the things I know I'm going to encounter. What are the rents? What are the taxes? What are the insurance? That's stuff that happens every year.

• 34:26Henry Washington?

  Every month.

• 34:27Dave Meyer?

  Every month, right? Like, that is something you're just always dealing with. Think about that. Think about your team. They're going to help you navigate these things way more than the law, right? Like, you should be thinking about, do I have a great property manager? Henry mentioned a lawyer. Like, if you have great people who are helping you screen tenants and figuring these things out, you can rely less on the regulation. If you are just throwing people into units, which I hope you're not, then you probably should be worried about this stuff. I'm not saying they don't matter. It does. But I think Henry's right. Is it top five variables I think about? No. Maybe makes the top 10, but I'm not even sure it does. But that said, I think that what we're trying to get across here is like, it is about

• 35:12Dave Meyer?

  you and your business model. Like I was just saying, like, if you're buying a certain class of property, it's probably not that important. But as you are formulating your strategy, whether you're picking a market, or you're figuring out what types of deals to buy in your market, do some research. You should know what's going on in your market. You should have this information when you're making these decisions. But treat it as a variable, like you treat other variables in your underwriting and deal analysis. At least for me, none of these are true deal breakers. Rent control's like the closest for me. But if the numbers worked and I really liked other stuff, I would even consider that. But it really just comes down to being able to see the big picture, right? Take these

• 35:55Dave Meyer?

  variables into account with everything else and formulating your strategy accordingly.

• 35:59Henry Washington?

  And everyone, here's just a piece of advice I think everyone should follow in any market, but especially if you're in a very tenant-friendly state.

• 36:08Henry Washington?

  Go join your local landlord association. There's typically a statewide landlord association that has branches and certain pockets, whether in cities or counties that have smaller branches. So find your local landlord association. Join the local landlord association. Dues are typically pretty inexpensive, but that will surround you with other landlords. Real estate's been around forever, guys. There are people who've owned property for decades and decades and decades. And anything that's going to happen to you or your business as a landlord has happened to somebody else before. So if you're part of these landlord associations and you find yourself in a sticky situation, now you've got a group of people who have probably dealt with the situation 10 times

• 36:51Henry Washington?

  over before, and they can help you navigate the situation. They can also help you prevent certain situations. But it's just a good way to have better resources on your side. And I don't think enough landlords are part of their local landlord association. But that's just easy, easy, low hanging fruit for you to be able to navigate some of these situations.

• 37:09Dave Meyer?

  All right, well, that's what we got for you guys today. Hopefully this was helpful for you all as you think about where to invest, what type of deals to do. This is a popular topic. People really like talking about it, and it is an important variable. But hopefully, as you see, it's one thing to consider among many as you're evaluating deals and figuring out your portfolio strategy. Henry, it was great seeing you, man.

• 37:32Henry Washington?

  You too, bud. Good talk.

• 37:34Dave Meyer?

  And thank you all so much for watching this episode of the BiggerPockets Podcast. We'll see you next time.