Can Our Marriage Survive This Devastating News?

🔥 Microhabits for a better marriage. Download the Together app. On today’s episode, we hear about: A man wondering what to do about his fiancée’s diagnosis A woman whose husband refuses to invest in their marriage A wife worried her husband is a bad role model for their son Next Steps: ❤️ Get away with your spouse today! 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Get up to 20% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! Working knives for working people—Go to Montana Knife Company to see what’s available now! Explore Poncho Outdoors! Head to Shady Rays and use code DELONY for 40% off two or more polarized sunglasses. Get 25% off your order at Thorne. Visit Zander Insurance or call 1-800-356-4282 for your free instant quote today. Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Dr. John Delony?

  This is an ad for BetterHelp. You work hard to be the strong one for everyone else, but you're running on empty. That pressure just doesn't disappear. It takes over your life and talking to someone can help. Go to betterhelp.com/deloney for 10% off.

• 0:21Speaker 01

  How do I navigate a life-changing diagnosis when my partner has an invisible disease? And I guess the other part is, how do I grieve the unknown?

• 0:31Dr. John Delony?

  What's the diagnosis?

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Trigeminal nerousia.

• 0:33Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  So you look it up and it's number one most painful diagnosis that someone can get.

• 0:45Dr. John Delony?

  What up? What up? What up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show coming to you live from Nashville, Tennessee, taking your calls on your mental health, your emotional health, your marriage, whatever you've got going on in your life. All of us are trying to figure out what to do in a world that's lost its freaking mind. That's why I'm here. Pull up a seat and we'll figure out what's the next right move for you, your marriage, your kids, whatever you've got going on. Let's go out to New York City. New York. And talk to Lee. What's up, Lee?

• 1:14Speaker 01

  Hey, Dr. John.

• 1:17Dr. John Delony?

  What's up, homie?

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Oh, not my brother. I'm in it right now.

• 1:21Dr. John Delony?

  Let's hear it, man. What's going on?

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess, you know, listening to you for a long time, really, really love all the wisdom you give and thank you so much to you guys and the team. But my question, you know, how do I navigate a life-changing diagnosis when my partner has an invisible disease? And I guess the other part is, how do I grieve the unknown?

• 1:43Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man. What happened? What's the diagnosis?

• 1:46Speaker 01

  Trigeminal nerousia.

• 1:47Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, man.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  So you look it up and it's a suicide disease, you know, number one most painful diagnosis that someone can get. You know, she was diagnosed a few weeks ago. I work in healthcare in New York and kind of seeing the other side of the system and how, you know, for context, for everyone, it's a severe shocking pain to one side of the face that is debilitating, puts people on disability and...

• 2:19Speaker 01

  You know, navigating say people thinking it's stress and thinking it's a period and thinking it's everything else except for the diagnosis. And so we have a diagnosis, you know, but the short term, she's going on short term medical leave. So kind of mourning, you know, the next month, but not knowing if this is something that's going to respond quickly to therapy, or if we're looking at years, you know, and this is somebody incredibly healthy, no medical problems, works two jobs, stepmom to my, my two beautiful kids, best woman I've ever

• 2:59Speaker 01

  met in my life. And we're kind of having to deal with the angry grenade dropped a little bit.

• 3:05Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Um, man, she's lucky to have you.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Thanks, man.

• 3:13Dr. John Delony?

  She's pretty fortunate, man. It's awesome. Those things you said to me, have you told them to her?

• 3:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, we

• 3:22Dr. John Delony?

  Good.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  We sit on a big couch every night and we talk through all of the, all of the stuff. I, I call it a doom castle. We sit in a doom castle and we worst case for a second and then get out and we shut the door and try to focus on the treatments and how early we're getting workups and

• 3:44Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. So what is your, um, I remember a comic saying this one time and it stuck with me and I found it to be true every time I'm in New York. They said,

• 3:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:54Dr. John Delony?

  Um, the reason most comedians, long-term comedians come out of New York is humor is in the air. Like even the trash guys are funny. Like even when people are like,

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:05Dr. John Delony?

  Get out of here. Like they're funny about it, right?

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Um, yeah.

• 4:08Dr. John Delony?

  What is you and your like wives, what, what is y'alls tolerance for eye rolling laughter?

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Very high.

• 4:19Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Very high.

• 4:20Dr. John Delony?

  All right, perfect.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  We, uh, we, the first night she was having, she actually, um, she had passed out on me and I, I, I thought she was gone for a second, which

• 4:31Dr. John Delony?

  It's terrifying.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  therapy for a long time. Oh, yeah.

• 4:33Dr. John Delony?

  Scary, yeah.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  My work in healthcare is very scary. And we got to the ER and he asked, you know, hey, what'd she look like when she woke up? I said, well, she looks like Michael J. Fox. She's kind of arms going everywhere and, um, but you know, we've tried to make light of, of a lot of it. It, uh,

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, it just seems like the, um, I don't know, the darkness has a little bit easier time hovering lately.

• 5:00Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And so here's, here's what I want to do. And it's a strange thing I'm going to tell you to do.

• 5:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:05Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Cause it feels impossible when I say it and I want you to practice it and you're going to realize that you can. Okay.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 5:12Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to bind

• 5:16Dr. John Delony?

  the, the darkness.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:18Dr. John Delony?

  Here's what I mean. I want y'all to have not every night in a doom castle.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:24Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to have a once a week, you've kept a list and she's kept a list. Seven minutes. There's that game we played when we were kids called seven minutes in heaven, where you go French kiss in the closet, right?

• 5:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:35Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to play seven minutes in hell, once a week.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:38Dr. John Delony?

  Where you read your list and she reads hers. And I want you to intentionally put some ridiculous things in there.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:46Dr. John Delony?

  But what I want you to, here's what I want you to do. Y'all are going to have to do something hard, which is celebrate life recklessly.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:55Dr. John Delony?

  And grieve at the same time. And the third thing that's even more scary is

• 6:02Dr. John Delony?

  fear the unknown.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:05Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And so when you put all these fears down, when y'all have this time of seven minutes in hell together, once a week.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:12Dr. John Delony?

  My hope is it's a time of high honesty and high dark humor.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:19Dr. John Delony?

  And that y'all will take a pen and mark off the things that you cannot control. You're not going to make these things go away. But what you're going to do by being intentional about putting a time limit on it, by writing it down and by going through these together and saying, can we control that? We control that. What you're going to do to your nervous system is remind it, I'm driving. Yeah. And I can't see that far ahead of me, so we're gonna slow down. But I'm driving and we are gonna turn up the eighties like hair medals and sing our guts out until otherwise, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so when you bind it and seven, that's a total arbitrary thing. It can be 15 minutes, it can be 30 minutes. There might be days when she needs I like that.

• 7:04Dr. John Delony?

  Less Doom Castle and more just, I need, I need you to hold me. Yeah. And so where I'd love you to spend the rest of your energy is how can I love you this week? Yeah. And you are gonna get a ringside seat into how true change in marriage happens. Yeah. It doesn't happen with these huge declarations. It happens minute by minute and you're forced into this. But y'all are gonna develop a language of what do you, how can I love you right now? Yeah. And she might say, I can't be touched. I'm in so much pain. Mm hmm. And y'all have already talked about what are the three or four things she wants you to do or not do when she's hurting? Yeah.

• 7:46Dr. John Delony?

  And then you're gonna have to wrestle with your emotional reactivity, your grief, your frustration, your feeling of powerlessness, right? Yeah. And that's all good. None of it's fun. It's all, I mean, actually, it's all awful, but it's, it's, it's, it's a thing you can control. You can't control her pain. You can, it's, otherwise you just hover over the shadow of powerlessness, right? I know. And that comes out in anger and rage and frustration. I'm gonna own it, man. I'm gonna own it. I'm gonna bind it. I'm gonna own it and I'm gonna do what I can in these moments when I feel powerless. Okay, cool. I can go for a walk. Yeah. I can actually walk out the door when she's in this much pain because this is what she asked me to do when she wasn't in pain.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  I have such a hard time since

• 8:35Dr. John Delony?

  I know.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  She spent like five days in the hospital overnight and the care she got, I feel like this is the strongest woman I've ever met, Dr. John. If you met her, man, you would. Um, I had such a hard time going past like a month, you know, and I think I'm trying to just be on hope and we can do everything. I'm gonna go, you know, all gas, no brakes on appointments. We're gonna see this, we're gonna see that.

• 9:02Dr. John Delony?

  But, but, but, hold on, hold on.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:04Dr. John Delony?

  You're, you're in healthcare, she's not, right?

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 9:08Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. This is gonna be hard to hear.

• 9:12Dr. John Delony?

  She's gotta drive.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:16Dr. John Delony?

  And so if she doesn't wanna go on these, on 50 different appointments?

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:21Dr. John Delony?

  Then she gets to choose that.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:25Dr. John Delony?

  Cause the worst thing you can do for somebody with an autoimmune disorder is to drag them around.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 9:31Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 9:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, I know.

• 9:37Dr. John Delony?

  And so part of reconnecting here is you saying, here's what I would love. I would love to do all this stuff. I'm putting it on the table because I love you and I'm honest.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:47Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm also surrendering to, this is your body, this is your pain.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:52Dr. John Delony?

  And I will be ride or die, however you wanna navigate this.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Every, every day, man, I, I take this from her 100 times out of 100. It's, it's tough to not.

• 10:10Dr. John Delony?

  I know, I know.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  It's tough to not be able to, you know, I see stories of people not touching their wife's face for a decade.

• 10:16Dr. John Delony?

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  On one side, right? And like, I wanna think everything's gonna be great when X, Y, and Z happens. And I feel like the dam is gonna break when the summer comes and it's not better, the winter, or.

• 10:31Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, but here's the thing.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  The unknown feels so tough, yeah.

• 10:34Dr. John Delony?

  There's a famous Amos Tversky quote. He's a famous psychologist.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Um, yeah.

• 10:40Dr. John Delony?

  And essentially, the quote is, and I'll, I'll, I'll mess it up here, but pessimism is stupid. It's a waste of time because if what you're worried about comes true, you've experienced it twice.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 10:52Dr. John Delony?

  And so what I would challenge you to do is.

• 10:56Dr. John Delony?

  To not cash out on living and loving and touching her face every moment possible now?

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:04Dr. John Delony?

  For the fear it might go away later, because when it goes away later, there will be no hedge against how much that hurts.

• 11:11Dr. John Delony?

  It's just gonna hurt.

• 11:16Dr. John Delony?

  And so

• 11:16Speaker 01

  To grieve what's not lost.

• 11:17Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 11:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's tough.

• 11:19Dr. John Delony?

  So let's live into what we got, and when it cross, if the dam breaks, we're gonna deal with the dam then, and we're gonna take care of our finances, we're gonna take care of our living arrangements, we're gonna live a life that we can afford this, like, I'm gonna take care of all the variables I can. Right?

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:36Dr. John Delony?

  Um, so like, if I live on a house that's underneath the dam, I'm gonna have an escape route.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:42Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm gonna, I'm gonna weed eat that thing, so that if I ever need it, I'm gonna use it, and then I'm gonna go on about my life, I'm gonna do a lot of fishing.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:49Dr. John Delony?

  And when the storm clouds gather and they tell me it's gonna be a big one, I'm probably gonna head up that escape path.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:56Dr. John Delony?

  Right? But I'm not just gonna go out on my front porch every day and stare at the dam and say, don't, please don't break, please don't break, please don't break. Right?

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:03Dr. John Delony?

  Because I'm gonna miss out on all of the life that I've got in front of me.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:10Dr. John Delony?

  The hardest thing you can do here is surrender.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:19Dr. John Delony?

  But loosening your grip on this thing will let you open your hands for hugs, high fives, touching her face, combing her hair.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:30Dr. John Delony?

  Right? All the good stuff. The good stuff.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's, that's, uh, yeah, we were trying to navigate this past few days of like, just telling each other we miss each other, we've been with each other 24/7 when we're not, I'm not at work, or she's not in an appointment, but just like, getting out of

• 12:49Dr. John Delony?

  Do mode and just getting back into to sit in the mode and it's just really tough when folks feel like to close in and around you. Of course, yeah. Uh. And, and, and But no, I, I like that. In your seven minutes of hell, give yourself seven minutes of heaven on the other side. Yeah, yeah. I need to look at you in the eye and say five things I love about you. Yeah. And, because y'all are, y'all are funny people like me and my wife, I'm gonna tell you four things that you're really driving me crazy lately. Yeah. Right, and that keeps those simmering frustrations and resentments from taking over. Yeah. Because they'll burn from, right, they'll burn from, from underneath the leaf pile and then all of a sudden it's an inferno and you didn't realize there was, there was ash down there. And so Right.

• 13:33Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna tell you, I think you're kind of, kind of ridiculous for not, you just kind of just quit making dinner, right? Yeah. And y'all can both laugh about that as she's on an IV drip, whatever, and then she can be like, well, I actually think you're letting yourself go a little bit. I think, and it becomes a, we're still one, we're still speaking our language, right? And that's not for every couple, by the way, right? But, um The ones, yeah. If that's who y'all are, then let's not lose our humanity. Yeah. Here's, here's the, the best way I can pass it along. My oldest best friend on the planet, um, a guy I've known for forty-seven years, um, got in a life-altering car wreck the week after he graduated college. Hmm. And he's been paralyzed ever since. Hmm. A massive traumatic brain injury.

• 14:17Dr. John Delony?

  And I remember me and one of our other best friends and his little brother, who's also a close friend, we were in a, it was a Denny's or an IHOP or something like that, in, in the middle of the night. Mm-hmm. And we actually had the conversation, hey, we all ruthless on each other. We can't keep doing that. Yeah. And I'm confident it was his brother that said, no chance. We're not gonna start treating him differently now. He's been one of our brothers, he'll always be one of our brothers. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. And so, but we had the humanity conversation. Yeah. We're gonna be who we were, right? Yeah. And so I have taken him to the bathroom and public things, I, I spoke at his dad's funeral, and you can better believe I made fun of him the whole time. Yeah. Right?

• 15:02Dr. John Delony?

  Because he's, that's, that's our, that's our language. Right. Always has been. That let, that let him know this guy's, A, doing the thing, and this guy still loves me, for me. Yeah.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  But we have a high tolerance for jokes that don't leave the house.

• 15:18Dr. John Delony?

  That's, man, that's perfect, perfect. And, and, and it's not losing that

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:25Dr. John Delony?

  under this dark, dark cloud of grief. This fear of what may come. You know what may come? Nobody knows. Nobody knows. And so we're gonna live big time now. We're gonna hedge every bet we can.

• 15:41Dr. John Delony?

  And we're gonna retain our humanity in the middle of the unknown. And that's scary and it's hard and it's day by day, minute by minute, week by week. And, but we can bind this stuff up. And that means you're carrying a spiral notebook with you. And so when you have these feelings, I'm not gonna text her. I'm not gonna come home every night and be like, oh, what if this happens? I'm gonna write it down. Ooh, and Thursday night, when we have seven minutes of hell and seven minutes of heaven. Here's my list. What's your list, right? And we're gonna put them all on the table, cross off the ones we can't do anything about.

• 16:14Dr. John Delony?

  And then we're gonna go through the, I love you. And I need you to hear me say that right now. And then we'll have a funny way to come out of that thing and go be human again. So, man, you're a beautiful guy, dude. And it's an honor to get to talk to you. And by the way, you have a picture of her as this really strong, powerful, powerful woman?

• 16:35Dr. John Delony?

  You may need to grieve that that picture has changed. That now she is a strong woman who's also in the fight of her life. And trying to constantly compare who she is now to who she was last week, last month, last year, is a disservice, A, to who she is now, but B, it's exhausting for you. And so let's celebrate who she was. Let's grieve what's happened to her. And then let's celebrate who she's becoming amidst all of this stuff. And who you're becoming too. Thanks for calling, my brother. When we come back, a woman asks how to navigate marriage when her husband avoids responsibility, but says he wants to stay married.

• 17:15Dr. John Delony?

  All right, I'm excited to tell you about a brand new sponsor of the Dr. John Deloney Show, Capstone Wellness. I've spent the vast majority of my career working with teenagers and young adults and their families. I know from personal experience that finding help and care for teenagers and young adults can be a nightmare, especially when your teenager or young adults need significant care. If you're a parent and your teenage or young adult son is struggling with trauma, addiction, mental health challenges, or destructive behaviors, and you're running out of options, I want you to consider residential treatment care. Capstone Treatment Center is a residential treatment program for young men. In this

• 17:56Dr. John Delony?

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• 18:38Dr. John Delony?

  are available. Go to capstonewellness.com/deloney to learn more. That's capstonewellness.com/deloney. Everyone I'm talking to is so exhausted. We're all fried, and somehow, we've all just decided this is normal. It's not normal to not be rested and not sleep. You can't outgrind bad sleep, just like you can't outrun a bad diet. Your body is always paying attention, and when you're not sleeping well, everything is harder. Because deep sleep, that's where your brain resets. It's the Ctrl+Alt+Delete every night, so you can show up in the morning

• 19:21Dr. John Delony?

  ready to rock and roll. And over time, it's what keeps your body healthy and your mind clear. And if your sleep is off, everything is off. It's why I love Helix mattresses. My whole family sleeps on Helix mattress because I believe that sleep is important for all of us. Helix does not just build one mattress for everybody. This one size fits all nonsense. Get online and take their sleep quiz. It takes like two minutes and they're going to match you with just the right mattress for the way you sleep. There's no guesswork here. Getting the right mattress can be the beginning of great sleep. And great sleep can change everything.

• 20:00Dr. John Delony?

  Go to helixsleep.com/deloney and get 27% off site wide during their Memorial Day sale. That's 27% off at helixsleep.com/deloney. And this 27% off discount is only for my audience. Go check it out. With Helix, better sleep starts right now. Let's go to Sacramento, California and talk to Luis. Hey Luis, what's up?

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Um, sorry, I'm a little nervous.

• 20:29Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, you're good, you're good, you're all good.

• 20:32Speaker 02

  Um, so I am dealing with um, some issues with my husband loving me and wanting to be married, but also like, kind of not necessarily wanting the responsibility of being a husband.

• 20:54Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me more about that.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  So, the majority of the time, I would say our marriage is pretty good.

• 21:00Dr. John Delony?

  What does that mean? What does pretty good mean?

• 21:05Speaker 02

  We have fun together. Um, we do life side by side, uh, well together without like, much arguments. I mean, of course, there's little tips here and there, but the majority of the time, it doesn't turn into anything big when there is like a small issue.

• 21:22Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  Um, but every once in a while, uh, most of the time, I believe this is surrounded by times when my husband is already stressed because of probably work.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  Um, but there, you know, sometimes I do bring up like, hey, this has been happening and um, I'm not really liking it. Could it change? Um, and that's kind of when he's like, well, you're asking me for too much.

• 21:56Dr. John Delony?

  What are some things you're asking for?

• 22:01Speaker 02

  Um, well, like, one example is that, uh, I'm always, um, looking forward to seeing him every day at the end of work.

• 22:09Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  And, um, there's some days where he comes home and he says hi to me, but it's not like lovingly. And, uh, I don't know, just not necessarily ignoring me, but it kind of feels like he's ignoring me.

• 22:27Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Um, do you stay at home with, like, are you a stay-at-home mom?

• 22:32Speaker 02

  Uh, we don't have any kids.

• 22:34Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So you work full-time too?

• 22:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 22:36Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Um, does he have a picture? Have you been clear with him on what feeling loving looks like?

• 22:51Speaker 02

  You know, now that I think about it, I don't know if I've been extremely clear about what exactly it looks like.

• 22:56Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, because he-

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Um, but I have, you know, brought it up.

• 23:00Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. So here's a loop I see so many couples get in, including my, me and my wife, okay?

• 23:07Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:07Dr. John Delony?

  Um, you have a long, hard day at work. So does he.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:13Dr. John Delony?

  And you'll both come home with various things on your mind, right? And, and this sounds dramatic to what I'm saying, and I know that, but also in your body. You're frustrated, you're tired, you're exhausted.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:24Dr. John Delony?

  Um, whatever.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:26Dr. John Delony?

  And you come home hoping he will make you feel a certain way.

• 23:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 23:35Dr. John Delony?

  And what that's doing is that's putting your internal state on an external situation.

• 23:43Dr. John Delony?

  And so if you tell me that he's abusive, if he never shows up for you, if he dismisses you, that's a different, totally different story, totally different call.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:52Dr. John Delony?

  But if you tell me, no, no, I know this guy loves me.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:56Dr. John Delony?

  But I'm expecting him to make me feel a certain way when I walk in the door. And I've told him, please, when you walk in, say hi to me.

• 24:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:05Dr. John Delony?

  And he walks in and says, hi, and you don't feel a certain way. The, the natural bent is to blame.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 24:14Dr. John Delony?

  You didn't do this right. The question I would pose to you is, what is it inside of you that you are either unable, unwilling, don't know how to self-soothe?

• 24:31Speaker 02

  I'm not sure.

• 24:33Dr. John Delony?

  What do, what do you feel, right? Feel, feeling is a, is a, it's an alarm system, right?

• 24:38Speaker 02

  Right.

• 24:39Dr. John Delony?

  Notification system, it's not truth. What is your body wanting to feel when he walks in?

• 24:45Speaker 02

  Cared for.

• 24:47Dr. John Delony?

  And what does cared for feel like?

• 24:57Speaker 02

  I, I'm not quite sure, um, how to explain it more.

• 25:02Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Well, and, and I, I want you to use that as, as a guide because often when we want other people to make us feel a certain way, it becomes a moving finish line for them.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 25:15Dr. John Delony?

  What are the fears? What are you, what are you worried about?

• 25:19Dr. John Delony?

  Do you think he's gonna leave?

• 25:23Speaker 02

  I think maybe my brain goes there, um.

• 25:26Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about that.

• 25:26Speaker 02

  But I don't know why, cause he's never like threatened, well, I wouldn't say he's threatened it. I think he's, he's mentioned things in the past, but like, um, he doesn't think he could stay in a relationship if like this certain thing was not there. Um, and it has to do with, you know, sexual intimacy.

• 25:55Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 25:56Speaker 02

  And I'm, I sometimes have difficulty like fulfilling that for him.

• 26:03Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  So I think maybe that's kind of why the fear is there.

• 26:08Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about difficulty.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  Um, so

• 26:15Speaker 02

  in the past, um, he's brought up the fact that the frequency is not as much as he would like.

• 26:23Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  Um, but I, I, I don't wanna like make excuses, but I do, you know, work a full-time job and I also have a, um, connective tissue disorder, uh, that comes with fatigue.

• 26:41Dr. John Delony?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  So, some days, work is really all I have energy for.

• 26:46Dr. John Delony?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  But I've tried to make some changes in my life, like how I spend, what energy I do have.

• 26:54Dr. John Delony?

  Mm-hmm.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  Uh, to make sure that I am prior- prioritizing our marriage in that way.

• 27:01Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  And I'm not, you know, great at it, at it necessarily, but I try. Um, but then like, after that, kinda got better.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  The next complaint was that the quality of it wasn't what he wanted.

• 27:18Dr. John Delony?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  And, you know, that, it, it feels like a lot of pressure on me.

• 27:27Dr. John Delony?

  Well, it's an extreme amount of pressure. He's given you a threshold.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  And like, I've, you know, expressed these things to him and, and, and the last like few months, he's told me that he's just kind of trying to come to the reality of what it is instead of, um, what, like, his ideal was.

• 27:57Dr. John Delony?

  And that's hard to hear, cause you wanna be his ideal, huh?

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:02Dr. John Delony?

  Hmm.

• 28:02Speaker 02

  I do.

• 28:03Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 28:07Dr. John Delony?

  My guess is that he's doing the same thing that you're doing on the other side of this coin. Which is, I... Of course, he likes sex and he likes being with you and all that. That's a given. But he feels like he needs to feel a certain way. Right. And if he doesn't feel a certain way, then he's gonna do X, Y, or Z.

• 28:34Dr. John Delony?

  Right. And instead of taking ownership of,

• 28:39Dr. John Delony?

  "Of course, I want to be with my wife. Of course I do. Of course, I want to be with that woman right there. That's why I married her." Yeah. And I made up a story in my head about what this was gonna look like, and more importantly, how I was gonna feel.

• 28:52Dr. John Delony?

  Right. And I thought it was a frequency issue. Not that. Now, I think it's a quality issue. Yeah. Not that. So now, it's a, "Well, I just gotta grieve it and make..." And all of that is saying, "I'm not willing to deal with my sense of not feeling alive in my own skin." "I'm not willing to deal with, what is it about me that shows up here that's not well and whole, so that I can see this woman in front of me who loves me, see this woman, like, know this woman in front of me and know she's going through health issues, stress issues, all these other things, and I'm seeing how hard she's working for me." Right.

• 29:36Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm gonna celebrate the crap out of her, which has a strange reciprocal effect of you feeling like you've got more margin, more peace, which allows you to have more energy too, right? Right. Less stress, less, like, it just gets in this really circular weird dance. Yeah. Right?

• 29:58Dr. John Delony?

  And so anytime somebody comes to me with, I'm gonna give you like a tiered response here, okay?

• 30:04Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 30:05Dr. John Delony?

  You've got some really big fears in your chest. Those have to come out on the table because anything else is just gonna be you playing whack-a-mole with feelings and with stories and you're gonna start looking at everything he does to backfill the story you've already made up, which is he's probably gonna leave. Or maybe, maybe even worse, he's gonna stay. He's gonna stay and be miserable and it's gonna be my fault because he told me so.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:31Dr. John Delony?

  Right? So, I wanna set up a meeting with y'all, y'all two set up a meeting and you're gonna have to go first.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 30:38Dr. John Delony?

  And say, "I have a couple of huge fears based on what you've told me in the past and I need to put these on the table."

• 30:49Speaker 02

  I, I believe I've already told him that.

• 30:55Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, what, how did it go?

• 30:56Speaker 02

  Um, I don't, I don't really remember his response. Um, I think most of the time he, when I do say that like I'm scared that he's gonna leave me.

• 31:10Dr. John Delony?

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:11Speaker 02

  He does say like, "I'm not leaving you, like, I love you" and it's not to that point, right?

• 31:18Dr. John Delony?

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:19Speaker 02

  Um, but I don't know why the fear is still there.

• 31:22Dr. John Delony?

  I, I wouldn't dismiss it. Um, because he might not leave you in body, but he might leave you in spirit.

• 31:32Speaker 02

  Right, and that's, I think that's why when he pulls away the affection, it feels like he's doing it in spirit.

• 31:41Dr. John Delony?

  Right, but the story you've made up in your mind is he's doing this on purpose. And so I wanna give him an op-

• 31:48Speaker 02

  I tried, I tried to be, um, you know, compassionate about the fact that he is stressed about work and stuff, but at the same time, like, I can only be neglected for so long.

• 32:02Dr. John Delony?

  Well, and I, I wanna hear those, like, you've used the words, "he avoids responsibility." You've said, "he's neglecting you now." Those are big, big things.

• 32:11Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:12Dr. John Delony?

  And-

• 32:17Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to be honest, is that what's happening? Do you feel neglected?

• 32:24Speaker 02

  At times, yes.

• 32:26Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 32:28Dr. John Delony?

  So I want you to be specific with what you're asking of him.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 32:33Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you to...

• 32:38Dr. John Delony?

  Trying to think. It creates a self fulfilling prophecy. Right? Here's what I mean. Both of you are creating self fulfilling prophecies in your house in real time. You have this sense that he's gonna leave. Based on stuff he said before, and probably the things he said, touched a real nerve with your life experience. Fair?

• 32:59Dr. John Delony?

  Maybe you got left as a kid. Maybe your folks left, either physically or in spirit, emotionally. Maybe a previous boyfriend left you, right? You've been down this road before, so your body knows what this feels like. And so, the story you tell yourself is, I can only be okay if I know for certain he's not gonna leave.

• 33:24Dr. John Delony?

  But you have already convinced yourself, you're worth leaving.

• 33:29Dr. John Delony?

  Cause you don't think you have enough sex, and you don't think you do it right.

• 33:33Dr. John Delony?

  And so if he says, "I'm not leaving," your body registers that as a lie. Cause you don't believe it.

• 33:40Dr. John Delony?

  And so then what do you do? You ask more. Are you sure you're not leaving? Are you sure you're not leaving?

• 33:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:47Dr. John Delony?

  And he gets further and further away. And at the same time, he's convinced himself.

• 33:54Dr. John Delony?

  She doesn't do this enough. She doesn't do this in the right way.

• 34:00Dr. John Delony?

  She doesn't make me feel...

• 34:03Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And that sense pushes you further away.

• 34:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:10Dr. John Delony?

  And so this is a classic case of somebody has to turn the music on and stop, like turn the music off and turn on the lights and just say, hey, let's stop this dance.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:19Dr. John Delony?

  Cause we're actually creating the thing that both of us are scared of.

• 34:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:24Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And this is where it gets very un-Hollywood very fast. But it's being as specific as possible.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Right, and I I've tried to be in, um, I recently had a conversation with him about like,

• 34:41Speaker 02

  um, because he told me that that he was burnt out. With work and with, um, a relationship, I guess.

• 34:49Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Um, so I tried to, you know, tell him that like, I think you're putting in effort in areas in our marriage where, like, I appreciate it, but it doesn't help me to feel the love the way that I prefer to. So maybe you could switch the effort you're putting in, in this way, in a different way, so that I actually feel it more.

• 35:12Dr. John Delony?

  I almost.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  It impacts me more.

• 35:14Dr. John Delony?

  I almost know the, I can almost guarantee I know that his response, but what did he, how did he respond?

• 35:20Speaker 02

  Um, he was okay with that.

• 35:21Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, I want to change the way you say that, okay?

• 35:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 35:25Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to, instead of setting up a challenge meeting, cause you've done that.

• 35:31Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to set up an invitation meeting, okay?

• 35:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 35:34Dr. John Delony?

  Here's what I mean.

• 35:37Dr. John Delony?

  Honey, I love you so much, I want to give you four really clear ways that you can love me. In this particular season we're in. I'm stressed, you're stressed, we're both carrying a ton of mental load, we're both got, we're up in our heads a lot. I want to give you a path for me. And I would love a path for you.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:01Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 36:03Dr. John Delony?

  And you can look at him and say, you know how much I'm working on the, like, my health.

• 36:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 36:10Dr. John Delony?

  Right? You know this.

• 36:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:12Dr. John Delony?

  What are some things outside of the bedroom I can do to love you well?

• 36:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. Okay.

• 36:19Dr. John Delony?

  And what we're doing that's different than you are doing this wrong, you're doing this wrong, you should do it like this. One is, can I give you a path?

• 36:32Dr. John Delony?

  It's an I statement. And then you say, hey, how can I love you?

• 36:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:39Dr. John Delony?

  But I think you're both chasing a similar,

• 36:43Dr. John Delony?

  a similar, um, horcrutch, if you will, is that what it's called? Not a horcrutch, what's the, what's the little ball with the, with the wings on it that flies around? In Harry Potter?

• 36:57Speaker 02

  I've never seen Harry Potter.

• 36:58Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, let me ask one of my nerd friends. What's, what's the little ball with the, with the? The golden snitch. The golden snitch. Y'all are both chasing this thing. And it's very hard to catch. And the thing y'all are trying to catch is, if they would just, I would feel.

• 37:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 37:16Dr. John Delony?

  And so what I want you to begin to ask yourself is, what must be true for me to feel loved in this home? What must I do to feel okay in my own skin?

• 37:28Dr. John Delony?

  And a path forward for you is taking some time to truly write down and celebrate yourself. And I know if you grew up in a faith community, they say, never do that. I know our culture says, that's just narcissistic. I want you to be honest about the last three or four years. What have you done to become a healthier, more well, more whole version of yourself?

• 37:52Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 37:53Dr. John Delony?

  Probably a lot, huh?

• 37:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:56Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Think of it this way, think of it as y'all two are hugging in the kitchen, but if he let go of you, you wouldn't fall over.

• 38:05Dr. John Delony?

  Can I stand on my own two feet inside my own skin? That doesn't mean you're not gonna be sad. That doesn't mean you're not gonna be heartbroken. That doesn't mean you're not gonna grieve it if he says, "I'm not doing that." Of course you are. All those things are real. Yeah. But it's you saying, "I'm okay with who I am." And just because I have

• 38:23Dr. John Delony?

  less of a spontaneous libido than he has, just because I have chronic pain, doesn't mean I'm not worth being married to. I am. I guess my meta-message here is this. At the end of the day, you can only control you.

• 38:40Dr. John Delony?

  You can only control how well and whole you are before you step on that field, that team sport that is being married and say, "We are gonna try to win this thing together."

• 38:49Dr. John Delony?

  What do you need to do so that you walk in feeling whole, on your own two feet, standing up so that you can give yourself over to this marriage?

• 38:57Dr. John Delony?

  That's a lot. All right, when we come back, a woman asks how to help her son develop healthy relationships when his father doesn't model them.

• 39:07Dr. John Delony?

  I recently had some people come stay at my house for a weekend, and we were all sitting on the couch, hanging out, and one of my friends called out, "Dude, I'm sitting under a Cozy Earth blanket, and you're wearing Cozy Earth socks. Is everything Cozy Earth in your house?" And I said, "Yes, it is! My house is loaded with Cozy Earth gear. Sheets, pajamas, blankets, towels, socks. We got it all. One of my favorite Cozy Earth things is their Cozy Earth Comforter. It's humongous. It's big, but..." I don't know how they did this. They must have built it at Hogwarts. "It's not hot or heavy. It's like sleeping under a cloud, and it helps regulate temperature so I stay comfortable throughout the night. And I got these Cozy Earth Essential Socks. They rule." I've never really been a sock guy. These are my socks.

• 39:52Dr. John Delony?

  Cozy Earth Essential Socks come in four lengths, and they're all incredibly comfortable. And don't forget, Cozy Earth offers a 100-night sleep trial on all bedding and a 10-year warranty on everything else. So there's no risk in filling your house with Cozy Earth gear. Try Cozy Earth for yourself and for your family. Go to cozylearth.com/deloney and use code DELONY. And you'll save up to 20% off your entire order. That's cozylearth.com/deloney. Use code deloney. And listen, if you get a post purchase survey, tell Cozy Earth that you heard about their amazing gear right here on the Dr. John Deloney Show. You're gonna love Cozy Earth taking over your home, just like they've taken over mine.

• 40:35Dr. John Delony?

  All right, Sacramento, California. Let's talk to Mother Teresa. What's up Teresa?

• 40:42Speaker 03

  Hi.

• 40:43Dr. John Delony?

  How we doing?

• 40:44Speaker 03

  I'm doing fine. I mean, life is beautiful. Life is hard. It's a mixed bag, you know?

• 40:50Dr. John Delony?

  I'm talking to Pollyanna. It's good to talk to you. So what's going on?

• 40:55Speaker 03

  Okay, so we are a family of four. And my son is 10 and he has a younger sister. And he's amazing. He is academically advanced. He's very kind, very sweet. He's a fantastic big brother.

• 41:11Speaker 03

  But he is struggling emotionally. And he's struggling to find his place and his worth. And I think that has a lot to do with the relationship he has with my husband, his father. And I mean, just to start, he, you know, my husband's not a social guy, so he doesn't have any male friends. So he doesn't see like the model of male friendship. He also doesn't, you know, play sports with him or video games or go out in the backyard and build stuff. And my son is very like eager for his attention and his love and tries to please him and even fawns over him a bit, which really just kind of rubs him the wrong way.

• 41:52Speaker 03

  And he's just sort of stopped kind of maturing emotionally, I think my son has, because he's looking for that responsibility to be given to him, for trust to be given to him, for him to sort of be taken under his father's wing and shown things. And it's just, I see it really affecting him because about 95% of their relationship is my husband saying stuff like, knock it off. What are you touching? Stop saying this. Who left the light on? You know, stuff like that. That's almost, not 100%, I don't want to exaggerate, but that's a lot of their interaction. And I just, it's a lot of scoffing, you know, at him. And he doesn't yell. He's not like mean otherwise. He's just sort of like low level disapproval all the time. And I just really see it affecting him. And I'm not sure what to do about it.

• 42:39Dr. John Delony?

  I don't normally say this, but your husband sucks.

• 42:43Speaker 03

  Oh, no, he doesn't.

• 42:44Dr. John Delony?

  And I would tell him that if he called me.

• 42:47Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 42:48Dr. John Delony?

  And here's why. You're right about all the responsibilities, all the things boys need from their dads. You're right. But the thing that is destroying your son from the inside out is this nagging, never-ending question. And by the way, he'll chase this question for the rest of his life.

• 43:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:06Dr. John Delony?

  What was so bad about me?

• 43:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:09Dr. John Delony?

  That that guy wouldn't look up from his phone, that that guy wouldn't come outside with me, that that guy wouldn't play with me.

• 43:17Dr. John Delony?

  That 98% of what he said was criticism. What was so bad about me? And here's the thing, it wasn't until I was doing an internship with a pretty extraordinary psychologist, when his famous line to me that really resonated and stuck with me forever, he looked at me once after we were working with some traumatized kids and he said, "Hey, straight A's can be a trauma response too."

• 43:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:40Dr. John Delony?

  Right? Some kids will sing and dance and do whatever they have to do to get their parents to say, "I see you."

• 43:49Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 43:51Dr. John Delony?

  And so...

• 43:51Speaker 03

  I would say... Yeah, go ahead, sorry.

• 43:53Dr. John Delony?

  I guess...

• 43:58Speaker 03

  I'm gonna try to rehabilitate him now a little bit.

• 44:01Dr. John Delony?

  You're gonna have a hard task because...

• 44:04Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 44:05Dr. John Delony?

  Because here's the thing, your son is the job.

• 44:09Speaker 03

  Yes, I've said those exact same words. This is the work. This is the hard thing that we're supposed to do.

• 44:15Dr. John Delony?

  Well, no, hold on.

• 44:16Speaker 03

  Exactly, yeah.

• 44:17Dr. John Delony?

  I guarantee this, and I'm happy to be wrong, but I'm almost positive I'm not. He does the same thing to you.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  Does he do the same? I think my husband is really in a rut, to be fair. I mean, he's present. He's always present. He's always doing the hard things. He's just not doing them happily, I think I should say. Um, and a lot of it is, I feel like he doesn't know how to take him outside and play with him because the relationship is already kind of fractured. So when he says, okay, I say, hey, go play soccer or something, you know, go have, go, I'll do whatever we gotta do to get you to this time. Like, it just doesn't go well because they don't have a foundation of like,

• 44:59Dr. John Delony?

  That, that's how you-

• 44:59Speaker 03

  I don't wanna say trust, yeah.

• 45:00Dr. John Delony?

  No, but that's how you build the foundation. You go do the stuff.

• 45:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:04Dr. John Delony?

  You go do those things.

• 45:05Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:07Dr. John Delony?

  And you, you very, like, astutely worked around that. But he might be in a rut and he might have mental and emotional challenges he's working through. Maybe. Totally cool. Right?

• 45:25Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:27Dr. John Delony?

  But the work is, I'm gonna go outside. I'm gonna close my laptop. I'm gonna put my phone down. I'm gonna go do the next awkward right things for my wife. Cause the greatest gift I can give my kids is to love their mother recklessly.

• 45:44Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:45Dr. John Delony?

  And then, I am going to give myself over to the work that is. Learning how to do things I don't know how to do, um, doing things I don't like doing,

• 45:59Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:59Dr. John Delony?

  but showing, uh, or, it sounds like he doesn't do anything else, but I'm gonna bring my son along with me on things that I like to do.

• 46:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's more that, he's not a lazy man. He's always, like, busy with something. But like, he'll choose to go do the grocery shopping, kind of, instead of like-

• 46:16Dr. John Delony?

  Well, bring your son with you.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  I guess, yeah. Make him part of it, like, make him your sidekick, that's what I've told him.

• 46:22Dr. John Delony?

  I, I know, but listen, if he does all the right things, but he's doing them to avoid being with y'all, those aren't the right things.

• 46:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:29Dr. John Delony?

  I'll get to grocery shopping, I'll go to this, I'll go to this, I'll go to this.

• 46:32Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:35Dr. John Delony?

  That, that's just, that's going around the issue. And the issue is, I got a wife here that's like, hey, husband, I miss you.

• 46:41Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:43Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, dad, do you like me? What's so bad about me?

• 46:46Speaker 03

  He's asked him that question. Does he like me? He's asked me that.

• 46:51Dr. John Delony?

  God, I gotta tell you, man, that breaks my heart.

• 46:58Dr. John Delony?

  And I also have to just be super honest with you. I've dealt with teenagers and young adults my entire career.

• 47:06Dr. John Delony?

  And that's a ghost that will haunt them forever.

• 47:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:11Dr. John Delony?

  What was so bad about me?

• 47:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:16Speaker 03

  It doesn't sound like that's a good deal, but it's pretty rough. And it's constantly like, because he's not a yeller, he's not violent in any way. He's just, you know, he's very, he's a very gentle man, actually. He's just very good at disapproving in, in a low volume, basically. And, uh...

• 47:33Dr. John Delony?

  Can I tell you something? Can I tell you something that's...

• 47:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:36Dr. John Delony?

  I, I, in no way is what's happening in your home worse than if he was abusive, okay? I don't want you to hear me say that. But if he was abusive, there will come a moment when your son will go, oh, he was the problem.

• 47:51Dr. John Delony?

  The fact that he's quiet? And seemingly doing all of the right things? Will further

• 48:00Dr. John Delony?

  dig your son inside himself to mine for, oh, it for sure is me.

• 48:09Speaker 03

  I think a big problem is my husband has a pretty big, I don't know how to say, ick reflex. And so, everything...

• 48:16Dr. John Delony?

  So what? Do you know what I did today? I'm gonna tell you what I did today.

• 48:23Dr. John Delony?

  I have a pet snake.

• 48:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:26Dr. John Delony?

  And I fed that snake a mouse. And the mouse died. And you know what I did today? I took a dead mouse out of a snake cage and went and fed my son's snapping turtle.

• 48:40Speaker 03

  It was you over there. Yeah.

• 48:42Dr. John Delony?

  Here's the deal. I have a high ick factor, too. I've got an OCD diagnosis. I am as close to a germaphobe as you're gonna find.

• 48:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:55Dr. John Delony?

  And man, I love my boy.

• 48:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:00Speaker 03

  We find a lot about habit breaking because, you know, he wants him to stop, you know, eating with his fingers or doing normal things that 10-year-olds do. And I was like, we can't shame him into breaking a habit. We have to build like a strong relationship and remind him gently and just hope that he does it. But for him, he wants results.

• 49:18Dr. John Delony?

  And I don't, I keep trying to- You can't get results out of, out of relationship without coercion or, um, demand. And coercion and demand might get you a result you want for a season. It might get a report card full of straight A's. It might get a kid who-

• 49:34Speaker 03

  Right.

• 49:35Dr. John Delony?

  -does everything right. And-

• 49:36Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:37Dr. John Delony?

  -that's a kid who will walk out your door and never walk back in.

• 49:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, I keep telling him just to accept that it's gonna happen. The habits are gonna break when they're gonna break. Like, we just have to love him and remind him, "Am I doing the wrong thing?" Because it's a big part of it. It's a big like, "Oh, you left your shoes in the wrong place. You're touching your hands in a place I don't want you to touch them." You know, stuff like that happens a lot. And I can't, I can't talk him out of the idea that we have to do something to stop it. Like, there's nothing we can do to stop it, other than-

• 50:05Dr. John Delony?

  Seven, just, just keep-

• 50:06Speaker 03

  -love him and remind him.

• 50:07Dr. John Delony?

  I, I don't, I, I, this is colloquial, and so I don't have data-

• 50:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:10Dr. John Delony?

  -behind this, but this is a good rule of thumb. Seven to one.

• 50:13Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:14Dr. John Delony?

  Seven positive connecting things to every criticism.

• 50:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:20Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, criticism, nagging, complaining, that's never about the person who is, you're, you're criticizing or complaining or nagging. It's about you.

• 50:31Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:31Dr. John Delony?

  You are the hero of that story.

• 50:33Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:34Dr. John Delony?

  I don't want you to put your fingers in your mouth. And the kid's like, "Well, I do."

• 50:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:40Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 50:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 50:43Dr. John Delony?

  In a relationship, when he, when he knows that there's nobody on the planet that loves me more than that guy does-

• 50:52Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:53Dr. John Delony?

  -then you can say, "Hey."

• 50:57Dr. John Delony?

  Like, I want you to become a man, like, I want you to grow up as a man who is, uh, has got good manners.

• 51:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:05Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And when you're with me out by the fire, when you're with me out on the hunting trip and you're me out on the fishing trip, we can eat with our hands all day long. But in the house, we're gonna use a napkin, we're gonna, we're gonna be polite people. We're gonna be people with manners. And then in a relationship, you can go, oh, sweet, I wanna be just like that guy, cuz that guy loves.

• 51:21Speaker 03

  Right, yeah.

• 51:22Dr. John Delony?

  Not, I wanna do what that guy says, so he hates me less.

• 51:28Speaker 03

  So I've talked to my husband every way I can about this. I've talked to him about coddling versus attending. I've talked to him about the Gottmans and their bids. I've gone down the whole gamut, trying to solve it. He's not gonna change. What can I do? How do I make things, just controlling my own behavior, is there anything I can do? Cuz I can't be the dad. But if, if I'm, there's anything I can do, I'll do it.

• 51:49Dr. John Delony?

  Um, yeah, there's two important things. One is, you're gonna be tired. But for the sake of your kids, you're gonna have to fill more of that gap.

• 51:59Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:00Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna go out and play soccer with him. I'm gonna go out and throw the ball.

• 52:05Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna take him fishing.

• 52:08Dr. John Delony?

  And you don't have time for that. It's frustrating. It's gonna surface more of your frustration with your husband, cuz you do a great job of burying your, y'all's relationship issues. Uh, it's gonna surface all that stuff up.

• 52:19Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:20Dr. John Delony?

  But I'm gonna choose to be present with my son.

• 52:23Dr. John Delony?

  The second thing is, is you're gonna have to put him in proximity of other good men. I'm gonna sign you up for leagues. I'm gonna sign you up with good coaches.

• 52:31Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:31Dr. John Delony?

  I'm gonna put you around other guys that will look at you and say, I believe in you.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  That's harder than it sounds.

• 52:37Dr. John Delony?

  It's real hard. Real, real, real hard. You know why? It shouldn't be that way.

• 52:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I put him in, like, Boy Scouts. It's all run by, by the moms.

• 52:46Dr. John Delony?

  I'm going to intentionally.

• 52:48Speaker 03

  Every teacher is a female. He's just surrounded by females, everywhere.

• 52:52Dr. John Delony?

  I'm.

• 52:53Speaker 03

  Boy Scouts.

• 52:53Dr. John Delony?

  That's right. And I'm going to find places.

• 52:56Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 52:56Dr. John Delony?

  Because, cuz, yes, the skills he's gonna learn in Boy Scouts are great.

• 53:01Dr. John Delony?

  What he needs is his nervous system regulated by a man that looks at him and says, "I care about you."

• 53:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I know that like my nervous system is on edge when they're just talking. And mine is on edge and my son is way more sensitive. He's a very sensitive kid. So they're kind of like oil and water, him and my husband. And like, if my nervous system is just like, like on fire when they're next to each, like around each other interacting, like I know his is like a thousand times worse.

• 53:31Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, it's his dad.

• 53:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:34Dr. John Delony?

  It's his dad.

• 53:35Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:38Dr. John Delony?

  And this is gonna be hard, but you gotta avoid talking bad about dad.

• 53:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 53:42Dr. John Delony?

  Because he knows half of him is his father. So if you're like, "Well, your dad's lazy. Your dad just doesn't seem to care." Then he's gonna internalize that too.

• 53:50Speaker 03

  No, no, no. I will say things like, um, you know, "Nobody's perfect. Look at you the other way if he loves you."

• 53:56Dr. John Delony?

  Nope, nope, nope, nope. Here's why.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  That's not good either?

• 53:58Dr. John Delony?

  If you do that, what it does is, he's having this experience, his question inside of his chest, "Why doesn't that guy like me?"

• 54:06Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:06Dr. John Delony?

  And you're like, "He does. Look at all this stuff."

• 54:08Speaker 03

  Not affirming him, yeah.

• 54:10Dr. John Delony?

  You're gonna make him feel, you're gonna make him feel crazy for the feelings he has.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  Right, right, right, right.

• 54:15Dr. John Delony?

  I will sit with him and say, "I wish dad would go play soccer with you too."

• 54:18Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:19Dr. John Delony?

  Dad's going through a hard season right now.

• 54:20Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:21Dr. John Delony?

  It's not about you.

• 54:22Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:22Dr. John Delony?

  I'm, I wanna play soccer with you. You're my favorite soccer player.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 54:28Dr. John Delony?

  And let's go. Right?

• 54:30Speaker 03

  Okay. All right.

• 54:31Dr. John Delony?

  Dad's really, dad's really struggling right now.

• 54:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:34Dr. John Delony?

  And he does not do a good job of telling you that he loves you.

• 54:38Dr. John Delony?

  I need you to know he does love you, and I love you. We're going fishing.

• 54:41Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 54:44Dr. John Delony?

  This is, this is his son, man.

• 54:46Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's the number one job.

• 54:49Dr. John Delony?

  The number one job is you.

• 54:51Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 54:52Dr. John Delony?

  Loving you really, really well.

• 54:55Dr. John Delony?

  The number two job is-

• 54:56Speaker 03

  I could love him better too. So I, I could, I could up my game. I'm so focused on the kids. And the parents have to be like the primary thing.

• 55:04Dr. John Delony?

  And so maybe sitting down with him, an act of just incredible generosity and compassion, might be sitting down with your husband and saying, "Hey, um, I feel the story I'm making up is, you're not doing well. And that makes me feel powerless."

• 55:20Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 55:21Dr. John Delony?

  I would love three or four things that I could do on a regular basis to show you how much I love you and care about you.

• 55:30Dr. John Delony?

  And I've got three or four things I'd love to offer you if you want to hear them. He sounds like a guy that doesn't really care what you think or feel. But maybe you could have them. Very specific things.

• 55:40Speaker 03

  I think he cares, but I've over communicated this so much to this point that I soon as like the conversation starts, like he shuts down.

• 55:47Dr. John Delony?

  And maybe lead with, I've beat you up with science and books and authors and I'm sorry.

• 55:53Speaker 03

  I probably have, yes.

• 55:55Dr. John Delony?

  I would, I would commit that. I would put that on the table.

• 55:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:00Dr. John Delony?

  I've tried to connect with your head and I've overdone it and I'm sorry. Now I'm going to connect with your heart. Here's how you can love me right now.

• 56:07Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 56:09Dr. John Delony?

  And the story I'm making up about you is that you're not well. That you're not doing okay.

• 56:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. And he'll say that, he'll say that, you know, he's like, every day is a grind for him. It feels that way to him. And that he doesn't have the emotional space or time to like, have time with the kids or really build that relationship because he can't just jump in and have the best day ever because today he has time. It's really just, it has to be that, that time never goes well because they don't have that fundamental relationship.

• 56:42Dr. John Delony?

  What does he not have time for? Like, what does he not have time from?

• 56:47Speaker 03

  I, I don't know, like, sits off work and, and immediately does something outside. And the kids go with him sometimes, but he's not really interacting with them. And, or he'll come in and he'll say, I gotta go grocery shopping or, you know, like, there's a lot of stuff to do, there's always something broken, but, I mean, he's not really a fix-it guy, but, I don't know, I just feel like he feels sort of grind down, you know?

• 57:13Dr. John Delony?

  It sounds like a guy who has lost meaning and purpose and who doesn't like himself.

• 57:20Speaker 03

  I don't think he thinks that deeply about himself, but yes, possibly.

• 57:25Dr. John Delony?

  Folks who don't think deeply about themselves, it comes out as I'm always burnt out. I'm always this, I'm always this.

• 57:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's always burnt out.

• 57:32Dr. John Delony?

  If I just had, then it would all be okay.

• 57:36Dr. John Delony?

  And there's no amount of time, money, whatever, that makes you look in the mirror and finally feel like you're okay.

• 57:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't feel, I've tried those seasons of like, okay, I'm just gonna take care of everything there is to take care of.

• 57:47Dr. John Delony?

  That's not the issue.

• 57:48Speaker 03

  After work, and it never helped.

• 57:49Dr. John Delony?

  No.

• 57:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:51Dr. John Delony?

  I'm just gonna leave it at that. There's nothing else I can add here that's gonna be anything other than me speaking ill of somebody who's not here, and that's, I just don't wanna be like that, but

• 58:01Dr. John Delony?

  man. Dads, put down your phones.

• 58:08Dr. John Delony?

  Put down your awkwardness.

• 58:11Dr. John Delony?

  Put down your I don't know hows or I don't want tos and go be present with your kids.

• 58:18Dr. John Delony?

  Delight in your kids.

• 58:23Dr. John Delony?

  Find, constantly find the good, constantly catch them doing awesome things.

• 58:29Dr. John Delony?

  And if you can't, go see a professional.

• 58:34Dr. John Delony?

  Cause they hate hard the work.

• 58:38Dr. John Delony?

  I am running a thousand miles an hour in a thousand different directions. And this morning, when I got in my car, I was tempted to just put on the craziest music I could put on to just fry my brain into some sort of energy, but I didn't. I went to my Hallow app and I put on some scripture, I put on some prayer, I put on some gentle music, and I showed up to work with peace. I don't just advertise for Hallow. I use it in my own life to help me be whole and well and show up as the person I wanna be. Hallow is the number one Christian prayer meditation app in the world for a reason.

• 59:18Dr. John Delony?

  And it's one of the most important things I do to start my day, especially when the world's in chaos. Anchoring myself in prayer helps me slow down and prioritize what matters before the world just takes everything else from me. Hallow gives me space to breathe, reflect, and pray. And listen, it's guided, it's simple, and it meets you where you are to help you anchor your faith practice, or even start a faith practice with daily reflections, scripture, music, special series, and most importantly, peace. There's no pressure here, it's just practice. You can try Hallow for free for three months only through my link. Go to hallow.com/daloni and sign up for free today. That's hallow.com/daloni for three months for free.

• 1:00:04Dr. John Delony?

  All right, we're back, Kelly. What you got?

• 1:00:07Speaker 04

  All right, I have a question about the Together app.

• 1:00:09Dr. John Delony?

  Let her rip.

• 1:00:10Speaker 04

  All right. So one thing we've been hearing is, like, why should I pay for an app that tells me to hug my spouse?

• 1:00:15Dr. John Delony?

  Yep.

• 1:00:16Speaker 04

  So, why should people pay for that? What, why do people need to be told? What's the benefit, whatever, like, I can hug my spouse for free?

• 1:00:25Dr. John Delony?

  I think we've had several calls on the show today that articulate that perfectly, which is, so much of our lives are led by what I feel. And I feel like, I don't feel like, I would feel this way if they would just, or I won't feel this way if they would stop. And so, having a daily reminder of a small thing I can do, I can take control of this thing, and I can step forward and regardless of how I feel, I can take the next right step. I can do a thing that will bring us closer together. And by the way, you're not just paying for hug your wife. Like, there's jillions of activities in this

• 1:01:09Dr. John Delony?

  thing. It does start that way with very basic stuff. And what we found is, most people are like, I didn't realize, I didn't realize, we don't stop and hug without our phones in our hands. I just, like, if you'd said, how many times do we hug? I would have been like, oh, like, 100? It was more like two. And so people realize, oh, I missed this. And uh, there's been a few who realize, oh, he won't hug me or she won't put her phone down. And instantly out of the gate, you realize we've got bigger challenges in our marriage than this app's gonna help us with. We need to go talk to somebody now because it's, there's a big stuff going on here. But the app starts slow, but it starts getting

• 1:01:52Dr. John Delony?

  wilder and wilder as the more you use it and unlock next levels. What I don't want to do is just, and we were intentional about this, I don't just want to come out of the gate and throw the most complex plays at you like, like you're like a NFL football player and you've never, you don't know what the basics, the blocking and tackling is. And so we're going to start from, from ground zero. And by the way, my wife and I use this thing and it's awesome. And so like as sophisticated as us two nerds are, and as long as we've been trying to figure out how to do this thing right, still the daily reminder of send your wife a note right now and put it somewhere where she can find it. And I go, ah gosh, I'm so, and I grab a piece of paper and I write her a note and put it on her pillow. I still, like it still matters, right? Because I would have thought about

• 1:02:37Dr. John Delony?

  it and I wouldn't have done it. And so this thing is just, it's just daily habits and you'll, I'm now finding myself when I see a great picture somewhere or somebody texts me a picture they took of me and my daughter out somewhere, I'll send that to her and be like, this picture or of my wife and my daughter, I'll, I'll send it to her and I'll say, this is why I think you're the best mom in the world. Like it's, it's now it's not just happening in the app. I do the app daily exercise, but I also do three or four other things throughout the day. Cause now it's starting to prime you. So anyway, you're not just paying for a hug your spouse app. Well, so much bigger than that.

• 1:03:12Speaker 04

  One thing that makes me laugh about that question, people asking it is, you know, why should we do that? Well, because clearly you're not doing it. So yes, you're right. Should you need an app that tells you to, or an app that tells you to hug your spouse? No, but you're not. So.

• 1:03:26Dr. John Delony?

  Well, that's like, that's like how, how questions for humans were found, which is like, oh, you don't know how to talk to your kids. And he's like, shut up dude. Like, no, we shouldn't know, we shouldn't have this product, but we need it and that's okay. It is what it is. It's awesome. So there you go. Go get the together app. If you are an Apple iPhone user, um, download it in the app store. And if you're an Android user.