Why You Are More Courageous Than You Think & The Magic of Tidying Up

Seems like no matter how hard you try you never pick the fastest checkout line in the supermarket. Why is that? This episode begins by explaining why that often seems to happen and why it probably isn’t a problem worth concerning yourself with. https://fetch.com/blog/smart-shopping/why-we-always-pick-the-slowest-checkout-line At some point in your life, you have likely regretted NOT doing something because you just couldn’t muster up the courage. Being courageous is hard – yet we so admire courage in other people. It turns out we can all build our courage muscle according to Margie Warrell. She is a leadership advisor and keynote speaker who has worked with NASA, Dell, Morgan Stanley, HP, Google, and Johnson & Johnson and others. She is the author of several books – including The Courage Gap: 5 Steps to Braver Action (https://amzn.to/3PTp23q). Listen as she reveals the secrets for leading a courageous life. Are you good at tidying up? Is your living space or workspace easy to navigate? Can you find the things you need because they are where they are supposed to be? The benefits of tidying can be tremendous – not only for its efficiency but also for your mental state. And tidying up is a lot easier than most of us think. That’s according to my guest Tyler Moore. He is the creator of the popular “Tidy Dad” Instagram, TikTok, and website. Tyler is also a public school teacher in New York City, who has been featured on Good Morning America and in The Washington Post and New York Post and he is author of the book Tidy Up Your Life (https://amzn.to/40Bt8SH). Ever have really weird or disturbing dreams – I mean weirder than normal? Listen as I explain what one prominent sleep researcher said is the reason this happens to us and how to prevent it. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/08/dreaming-depression-and-how-sleep-affects-emotions/261051/ PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS!!! SHOPIFY: Nobody does selling better than Shopify! Sign up for a $1 per-month trial period at https://Shopify.com/sysk and upgrade your selling today! HERS: Hers is changing women's healthcare by providing access to GLP-1 weekly injections with the same active ingredient as Ozempic and Wegovy, as well as oral medication kits. Start your free online visit today at https://forhers.com/sysk INDEED: Get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at https://Indeed.com/SOMETHING right now! CURIOSITY WEEKLY: We love Curiosity Weekly, so be sure and listen wherever you get your podcasts! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Mike Carruthers?

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• 1:29Mike Carruthers?

  Today on Something You Should Know, why do you always seem to pick the slowest checkout line in the grocery store? Then, personal courage. How to do something brave that could change your life.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  You know, I practice the one-minute rule. That one brave minute. Like, in one minute of brave action could open up a whole lot of opportunities that you just don't even know about. When we give ourselves permission to feel anything, it actually opens us up for everything.

• 1:58Mike Carruthers?

  Also, the reason you may be having really strange dreams at night. And the magic of tidying up your life and great suggestions on how to get started.

• 2:08Speaker 02

  Most recently, I did our tech drawer, which I feel like everybody is great at bringing new tech in, but there's something about us that like holds on to all of those cords and chargers even when we've gotten multiple duplicates for evermore.

• 2:23Mike Carruthers?

  All this today on Something You Should Know.

• 2:28Mike Carruthers?

  I imagine most of us shop for clothes online, at least some of the time. And there's always that little mystery. Is what shows up at your door actually going to look like what you think you ordered? We've all had that experience. I know my wife has ordered dresses that look beautiful in the pictures, but when they arrived, eh, not so beautiful. Cheap-looking, disappointing. And that's one of the reasons we've become such big fans of Quince. When we order from Quince, we are confident we're going to get something really nice. The quality is consistently good, and the prices are surprisingly reasonable. I've bought their cashmere sweaters, which are gorgeous, and they start at just $60

• 3:13Mike Carruthers?

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• 3:58Mike Carruthers?

  Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, please let them know it was something you should know. It's the best way to support the show.

• 4:24Mike Carruthers?

  You know, as someone who enjoys grocery shopping, I noticed a long time ago, and I'm absolutely certain you've noticed this too, that no matter how hard you try, it seems like more often than not, you get in the checkout line that is slower than all the others. Well, this phenomenon has actually been studied, and the reason why that happens, well, there's a couple of reasons, but one of the big reasons is that random interruptions, like a price check, or a chatty customer, can really slow the line way down. And those interruptions can happen at any time and in any line. So if there are, for example, three checkout lines open,

• 5:09Mike Carruthers?

  you have a 2 out of 3 chance of not being in the fastest line. The more open lines, the worse your chances. What's actually more interesting is really the whole system is flawed. If supermarkets did it the way banks and airports and hotels do it, you would actually get out of the store faster. And that is to have one line and have the person at the front of the line go to the next available checker. So why don't supermarkets do it that way? Well, room is a problem. There's really no place to put that line. But a bigger factor is customers don't like it. But here are a few suggestions. It's not just how long the line is. If the cashier has someone bagging groceries for them, that line will move faster.

• 5:54Mike Carruthers?

  Also, it's not just the number of people in line. People with a lot of items in their cart take a lot longer and slow the line way down. Another tip is, you know, just don't sweat it. Because it turns out there are probably plenty of times you probably were in the short line, you just tended not to notice. Human beings are more likely to notice setbacks when things don't go right. But they often do. And that is something you should know.

• 6:27Mike Carruthers?

  How many times have you not done something and later regretted it? Perhaps saying to yourself, "I wish I'd had the courage to do that. I wish I had been braver. It just seemed too risky." Yet courage is something most of us admire in other people. Are those people born courageous? Or is courage something you can develop? And if so, how? Those are the questions Margie Warrell is here to answer. She is a leadership advisor, keynote speaker, and has worked with organizations such as NASA, Dell, Morgan Stanley, HP, Google, and Johnson & Johnson. She's the author of several books, including "The Courage Gap: Five Steps to Braver Action."

• 7:12Mike Carruthers?

  Hey, Margie, good to have you here.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  Mike, terrific to be with you.

• 7:16Mike Carruthers?

  So let's start with your definition of courage.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  My definition of courage is the decision to take action in the presence of our fear and doubt and risk.

• 7:30Mike Carruthers?

  Is courage, do you think, something some people are born with? There are people who seem very courageous. Did they come out that way? Or did they work on it? Or what?

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Well, let me just start by sharing two core dimensions of courage. The first is the management of our fear. So sometimes people are afraid disproportionate to any real risk. And the second is our willingness to take action in the presence of it. So some people are born a little more uptight and anxious and naturally more cautious and risk averse than others. And so they'll often feel a little more fearful when it comes to doing something, to going on an adventure, to putting themselves out there. And so I think everyone has the capacity for courage,

• 8:23Speaker 01

  from the most timid and cautious to the most bold, you know, risk-taking people that we think of, Bear Grylls, Richard Branson, you know, the Navy SEALs. But everyone has this capacity to build courage and to take action in the presence of their fears and doubts. But what it looks like for each of us can be very different.

• 8:43Mike Carruthers?

  But how do you tell? I mean, sometimes when you feel afraid of doing something, there's that little voice in your head that says, "Don't." That might be something to listen to. Maybe you shouldn't. And maybe that voice is keeping you out of harm's way.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Absolutely, yes. Fear, that emotion of fear, let's just be clear. We wouldn't be here as a species if we didn't feel afraid. So I think fear gets a bad rap, like, "Ah, you know, if we could just eradicate fear, fear is the enemy." No, fear is not the enemy. Fear is what's helped all of us avoid doing stupid things, particularly in our younger years, when we may have felt a little more invulnerable to the dangers of the world. So it's not that fear is a bad thing. And so sometimes our fear is alerting us to a legitimate danger. You know, "Don't dive into that river. You don't know how deep it is. Don't, you know, run across the freeway. Don't invest money with this person because something's coming up.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  You've got this feeling like they're just not to be trusted." So to be clear, fear isn't the enemy. It is not about fear eradication. It's about fear management and being able to discern what fears are serving me, what fears are enabling me to use my time and my talents and my energy toward things that enrich my life, and what fears are actually keeping me from doing those very things.

• 10:08Mike Carruthers?

  So let's take a real simple example that I think anyone who went to high school can relate to. You know, the guy who wants to ask the girl on a date or to the prom or something, and he puts it off, and he puts it off. And he knows, you know, he might get rejected, you know, maybe she's out of his league. But if he never asks, he'll never get the date. But asking, he's afraid of something. So what is he afraid of?

• 10:37Speaker 01

  You're afraid of the sting of rejection. And it's that, and it's actually not the rejection itself. It's what we make it mean, that I'm not good enough. If you knew that, you know, if you didn't, if we didn't internalize that rejection as a judgment that we are inadequate, that we're not cute enough, that we're not popular enough, that we're not smart enough, then we would just ask them. We'd go, hey, do you want to go out on a date? And if they said no, you go, oh, well, whatever. But we don't do that because, because we, we just want to avoid the chance of them saying, oh, no, thank you, oh, thanks, but no, thanks. And not, ah, I'm not good enough.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  And I think, you know, this can apply to people who are 16 years old and they want to invite someone to the prom. And it can apply to someone, I've got friends who are 56 years old and they're like, oh, I'd really like to meet someone, but, oh. And it's like, I don't want to have to feel the uncomfortable emotions that may come my way if I do put myself out there. You know, it could be applying for another job. It could be inviting someone on a date. It could be just a platonic, reaching out to someone you'd like to get to know better. Um, and so we often hold back. You know, procrastination is just a way to avoid, it's a tactic to avoid the discomfort of trying something and not doing well.

• 12:00Mike Carruthers?

  So when somebody says to you what you just said, like, I don't want to feel those emotions. I don't want to get rejected. I'd really like to meet somebody. And I know it's not the end of the world if they say no. You would say what?

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Well, people will rarely say, I don't want to feel those emotions. Actually, what they'll usually say is, I'm just too busy. Or there'll, there'll be some other reason. It's not always that, oh, I don't want to feel those emotions. It's like, oh, no, it's just not the right time. Or it's not so bad right now. And we'll come up with a whole lot of other reasons that give us air cover. So I would just be going, okay, so pull, let's pull this back. What, what have you got to lose? And, you know, well, at the end of the day, I've got to lose a little bit of face here. Um, I've got to lose, you know, my pride a little bit, like, I don't want to feel that way. And then I'm like, what have you got to gain? And, you know, we don't know what we don't experience when we don't be brave, right?

• 12:58Speaker 01

  We don't know that, hey, we could have met some awesome person, or we could have gone to some event and met a whole lot of people, or landed some great opportunity. We don't know what we don't get because we stuck with what was safe. So often, we, our attention zeroes in on what could go wrong or what could be lost. And we really just quickly pass by, well, what is it that you could be losing? What's the opportunity cost of you not doing this? And so, you know, in, in my book, I talk about, you know, practice the one minute rule, that one brave minute, like in one minute of brave action could open up a whole lot of opportunities that you just don't even, you don't even know about.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  Um, but just recognizing that when we give ourselves permission to feel anything, it actually opens us up for everything.

• 13:50Mike Carruthers?

  I wonder if people who are courageous, who people who are able to manage this well, if they have a lot of failures, if they, they've, if they try a lot of things because they're courageous, it would seem that many of them maybe weren't such great ideas and they, but they tried them anyway.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  A hundred percent, absolutely. You know, people who land on the top of the mountain, and I'm not saying we all want to land on the top of a mountain, but people who land there didn't just get there by accident. It's because they were just putting themselves out there, trying things, doing things, failing a lot. You know, the most successful people aren't people who haven't failed. They've failed way more than the average person. But they don't let the failures define them. They learn from them. We're all going to fail. Either we're going to try things and fail, or we're going to fail to try things. In which case, there's, there's valuable learning either way. And often we brush past it and we don't want to really look at it. Cause it's a little uncomfortable to look at.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Sometimes it's, it's revealing to us like something we don't really want to see. But giving yourself permission to risk what I call a worthy failure. A worthy failure is pursuing something where there's a risk of failure, but it honors the person you want to become. You know, it could be in a work setting, it could be in a relationship, it could be going off travelling somewhere, but I mightn't land this perfectly, but I'm always going to be proud of myself that I tried to do it. That's it. And if you, and if you fail, it was worthy, it was worthy. You honoured yourself, you honoured what it is you really wanted to do. And here's, here's what all the research shows, and my own experience shows too, Mike, that

• 15:37Speaker 01

  when we do risk those worthy failures, we never regret them. And here's why. When you don't try something, you don't change, you don't learn information, you don't learn new people, you don't discover something else that, that does work, you don't expand your world, you stick exactly where you are. When you try things, even when you fail, sometimes you meet new people, you gain new knowledge, you realise, oh, I can handle stuff like that. You discover things about yourself, you discover often things that do work. And so we need to, you know, give ourselves permission to kind of blunder imperfectly forward, not in a reckless way. I'm not talking about not thinking about what are

• 16:22Speaker 01

  the, what are the risks that you need to be managing, but just in a thoughtful way, knowing that it's through our inaction that our, our comfort zone gets smaller and smaller. But when you're doing things, you're like, ah, you know, I'd really like to learn something new. I'd really like to change this thing. And you know what? I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing, but I'm going to start stepping toward it. You are always going to end up being a bigger, braver version of the person that you have it within you to become than had you not done it. And we often discount the cost of inaction.

• 16:55Mike Carruthers?

  Finding the courage and bravery to do something important. That's what we're talking about with Margy Worrall. She's author of the book, The Courage Gap, Five Steps to Braver Action.

• 17:08Mike Carruthers?

  This episode is sponsored by Vinted. You know, I remember interviewing an organizing expert who offered this really clever trick for figuring out which clothes you should get rid of. You go to your closet and you look at the clothes hanging there. And chances are, the ones toward the middle are the clothes you wear most often. But the clothes pushed way over to the left or the right, some of those you probably haven't worn in years, and yet there they hang, taking up space. But here's the thing, you could turn those clothes into money. That's where Vinted comes in. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell clothes you no longer wear and make some extra money.

• 17:51Mike Carruthers?

  Listing on Vinted is so quick and simple, and when something sells, Vinted creates a prepaid shipping label for you. And here's what I really like, Vinted charges no seller fees, so whatever you earn from selling your clothes, you keep. Think about that. Clothes that you aren't wearing, taking up space, could be putting money back in your pocket. So here's my suggestion, take five minutes, go look at the far ends of your closet and see what's hanging there. You might be surprised. Download the Vinted app for free and start listing. With no seller fees, you keep every dollar you earn. That's Vinted, V-I-N-T-E-D.

• 18:34Mike Carruthers?

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• 19:19Mike Carruthers?

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• 20:01Mike Carruthers?

  is just 83 cents per night. So go to shopbeam.com/sysk now. That's shopbeam.com/sysk. So Margie, there are those things I'm thinking of. I can remember, for example, buying your first house, my first house. And it was tight, you know, it was like, boy, nothing better go wrong. There better not be a leak in the roof because I mean, we are right at the edge here. Do you do it? Do you not do it? And, you know, if things had gone wrong, people would say, well, that was reckless. You really couldn't afford it. You shouldn't have done it. If things go well, go, oh, that was so brave. Boy, you really took a chance. But it could have gone either way.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Well, I think recognizing that most of the time when we're taking risks, it's really, really binary, like, oh, yeah, I was gonna win or I was gonna lose. So for instance, buying a house, when I look back, I wished I'd spent more money and extended myself more. But I was way too uncomfortable and financially risk averse than to put so much money into my first home or my second home, frankly. But to that point, Mike, we're always, we're always having to analyze the pros and the cons, you know, can I afford it? Can I not afford it? What's the risk? What are the chances of this going wrong? So just, we need to do that analysis. Um. And you said, well, it could have gone either way. You know, most of the time it's not fifty fifty.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  Most of the time it's like, well, you know, there was a fifteen, twenty percent chance it mightn't have worked out. But it's not like we sit idly by while the whole thing falls. Yes, sometimes, you know, the stock market just crashes overnight. But most of the time, there's signs that things aren't starting to go well. And we can intervene to shore up the downsides. You know, I remember meeting Richard Branson a few years back. And he talked about taking a third mortgage on his home when he's early days with Virgin. And I said, gosh, how did your wife feel about that? Because he was married, he had a little child. And he said, oh, I didn't tell her. And I was thinking, man, I wouldn't have wanted to be married to you back in the day. But he also said, he always sought to shore up against the downsides of the losses.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  So that if he, if he lost things, you know, he didn't lose everything. How could he, how could he avoid that in terms of the way he financed things, et cetera? And of course, we are not all wired to be, you know, trailblazing entrepreneurs that bet, you know, take a second and third mortgage out on our home. But we do need to make bets all the time. If you go through your days, we're always making a bet. Do I spend my time on this or not? And it's the risk reward analysis. And often we're a little too cautious. And we actually should go, you know what? I'm going to back myself here. I'm going to go out on a little bit of a limb. Not, not crazy, but I'm just going to put some of my own identity on the line here because I really feel like this is the direction I want to be heading.

• 22:58Mike Carruthers?

  Of course, when you don't take a risk, you'll never know. And, and, and maybe that feels comfortable for some people that, you know, you can imagine, well, if I had, you know, if I'd done that, it would have just gone to hell. So I didn't do that and thank God I didn't do that.

• 23:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true. But actually, the evidence shows that we are three times more likely to regret the chances that we didn't take. And at the end of life, we're more likely to regret the brave things we didn't do. So there's this, it's called the theory of regret, that we regret because we don't know what could have happened. And yeah, in the short term, it's like, well, I didn't have to risk the rejection. But over time, when we've got more time and we can look at things through a longer arc of time going, I should have just asked her out, heck. And, you know, I'm sure you've heard the saying, fear regret more than you fear failure. But I know for me, when I wrote my first book, I had four kids, seven and under.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  And I just felt really passionate around what I was doing. And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing with writing a book. I've got four little kids. And I just thought, I don't want to look back one day and go, what if I'd tried? And did I write a, you know, literary masterpiece? No. Did I feel really nervous as it was coming out? Yes. Was it easy? Uh, no. Did I, was it, did I write a bestseller that made me millions of dollars? Absolutely not remotely, yes. But I always regret, I'm always pleased that I wrote that book because that book opened up the door to new opportunities and to doing media interviews and then to speaking more widely.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  And it was just a first step and it was a fumbly first step. It was an awkward first step. But it opened up the door to a whole lot of other possibilities. And likewise, you know, whenever I meet someone who's really thriving in their life, they're constantly trying things and not everything lands, you know? Yeah, sometimes it doesn't. But when we don't, we don't interpret failure as, you know, who we are. Failure is an event, not a person. And when we can befriend failure as a prerequisite for us to learn what we need to learn to keep moving forward smarter, then it actually frees us to, to risk more of it. And no, I'm not talking massive failures, but just like, oh, I'm going to go along to this thing and meet these people.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  Or I'm going to write an article and it mightn't be the best article. Or, you know, whatever it is for you. Um, but you know, that, that, that thing of embracing, that concept of embracing. Imperfection and good enough and just putting yourself out there and giving yourself permission not to nail it all the time actually just empowers you to do so many more things than you ever would if you were waiting to line all your ducks in a row.

• 25:51Mike Carruthers?

  I imagine we all know people who have that, I know people who have that ability to just not care, you know, they just, they don't worry about what's gonna happen, they don't worry about what people are gonna think, and, and, and they, they seem to have an advantage because they're not shackled by that anxiety of, yeah, but what if it doesn't work?

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know those people too, aren't they annoying?

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Look, I wished I was one of those people who didn't care, um, I do care, I wished I didn't feel so self-conscious, I wish there wasn't a little voice in my head as I'm talking to you, Mike, going, oh, Margie, are you saying the right things, are you hitting it? You know, there is, it's there, uh, what I, what I know is, it's like, how much power do we give that? For those people who just don't care, um, I actually would say, we shouldn't aspire not to care about anything, we should care deeply about things, but it's about caring about the right things, it's about caring about doing things with our time that make the world a little better, even if it's our neighbor's life a little better, or, you

• 27:04Speaker 01

  know, our kids, or our family, et cetera, um, so it's about what is it that you are putting your focus on, what do you care about? Because what we focus on expands, and so, some of us can put all of our focus and attention into, what will people think if I mess up? I'm like, yeah, but what will you think of yourself if you don't give yourself a chance? So, put your focus on what it is you want, not on what you don't want, because you can get crippled, like, really be held almost captive by impression management, trying to look good in the eyes of others, you know, I like looking good in front of the eyes of others, I mean, I'm, I'm human, I'd, I'd like to think that everyone thought I was great, but what I know is more Important is me feeling great about what I'm doing.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  So I put my attention into what is it I'm doing that makes me feel that's meaningful, that's purposeful, that I think it adds, makes the world a better place? And not on what will everyone say? And so I think there is a real power here in being intentional about what you put your focus on.

• 28:07Mike Carruthers?

  I love that, what you said about when we don't do something and we worry about what will happen, that that is so much worse than what actually happens most of the time. That it's that anticipation of horror is much worse than any horror that usually ever happens.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really interesting, isn't it? I've had people tell me over the years, they've just been really stressed about making a change. Sometimes it's ending a relationship, sometimes it's telling someone feedback at work, or they've got to let someone go, or they know they need to do something and they're so anxious about it. And then they finally do it. And I have never had anyone tell me that they wished they'd waited longer. Everyone has said, I wished I hadn't waited so long. Like the stress they had by delaying the action they knew they needed to take. I always say cold water doesn't get warm if you wait longer.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  So, so if you're not on a path, if there's something you know you need to do, it's not going to get easier a year from now and two years from now and five years from now.

• 29:21Mike Carruthers?

  I would suspect that everybody listening has had experiences like you've been talking about, that there's something that they regret not doing, or that they regret not doing sooner because it's more difficult now. And you've, I think, given people a lot of courage to move forward and do something, even if it's scary because, because it's the courageous thing to do. Margie Warrell has been my guest. She is a leadership advisor and author of several books. Her latest is called The Courage Gap: Five Steps to Braver Action. And there's a link to that book in the show notes. Margie, thank you. It's always a pleasure speaking with you.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Thanks, Mike. Great to speak with you.

• 30:02Mike Carruthers?

  Well, here's something you should know about your bones. We all hear about calcium and vitamin D, and they're important. But there's another ingredient in healthy bones that hardly anybody talks about: collagen. Think of your bones like a building, right? Collagen provides the framework, while minerals like calcium help give it strength. Here's the problem, though: As we get older, our bodies naturally produce less collagen. That's why I was interested in Native Path Bone Health Collagen. It's not just ordinary collagen. It contains a specialized form called fordebone. And there's some interesting research behind it. In a study of 131 post-menopausal women,

• 30:46Mike Carruthers?

  researchers saw improvements in bone mineral density after 12 months: up to 7.7% in an important part of the hip. Native Path gives you the same 5 grams of fordebone used in that research in an easy-to-mix daily formula. I just got mine, because bone health is something I'd rather pay attention to now than wish I had later. And here's a great reason to try Native Path Bone Health Collagen right now: You can save up to 48%, get free shipping, and it's backed by a 365-day money-back guarantee. Now, that's a pretty compelling offer if you've been thinking about doing something

• 31:30Mike Carruthers?

  to support your bone health. Go to getbetterbones.com/sysk. That's G-E-T betterbones.com/sysk.

• 31:44Speaker 03

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• 32:14Mike Carruthers?

  Is your home or workspace tidy? What does it mean to be tidy? What are the benefits? Some people seem to be naturally tidy. Others, eh, not so much. Here to discuss the importance of tidy and how to do it is Tyler Moore. He's the creator of the popular Tidy Dad Instagram, TikTok, and website. He's a public school teacher in New York City who has been featured on Good Morning America and in the Washington Post, the New York Times, and the New York Post. And he's author of a book called Tidy Up Your Life. Hi Tyler, welcome to Something You Should Know.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  Thanks so much for having me.

• 32:54Mike Carruthers?

  So let me ask you, when you hear the phrase, you write the phrase, "tidy up," what does that mean to you? What does tidy up mean? Because I think it means different things to different people.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, so to me tidying up is this process of bringing order to things. And I think oftentimes people think about it just with their physical possessions, you know, the act of putting something away once it's been used. But I also feel like tidying up these days, it's really transcending just the aesthetics of our home, that, you know, you name it, you can learn to tidy it up, be it your hobbies or your professional life, or the relationships that you have with people, or your like email inbox, your calendar that you're dealing with, anything that you can name, you can learn to tidy it up.

• 33:42Mike Carruthers?

  Don't you think though that there's, I don't know if it's a personality trait or maybe there's a gene, but you know, some people are just better at this than others, that they like things in order and they make it a priority to keep things orderly. And other people don't, and they're messier, and other people, most people are probably somewhere in the middle.

• 34:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I definitely think that we all have thresholds of mess. And I think that that's one of the beautifully messy joys of life is that we're often sharing spaces with other people, whether it be at home or in the workplace. But I often think that, you know, if you can drill down to that area of your life that you really feel is tidy-est, and like for some people, it's their car or like their glove compartment, their trunk. It could be those drawers that are in the kitchen. If you go to that place where you feel like it is that like optimal level of tidiness, you can start to unearth sort of the why behind that. Why is it that you show much, you know, show so much care or affection for that one thing?

• 34:43Speaker 02

  And then how could that transcend into other areas of life that may feel a little bit messier? Because I do find that we all have those areas of our life that it is of value or importance to keep tidy. And then there are other places of our lives that we just sort of let things go. And it could be like the side of your bed where you just throw the clothes at the end of the night instead of putting it in the laundry hamper. Like there is a why or a bigger, you know, sort of question underneath that.

• 35:11Mike Carruthers?

  Where do you think, to get specific here, where do you think is a good place to start? If you're so inclined to tidy up?

• 35:19Speaker 02

  So I feel like so often when people start the process of like tidying or decluttering, they're so excited to take on their entire house at one time. And it's sort of like when you start that new resolution that you're going to like work out every single day of the month, like a few days in, you start to develop muscle fatigue and overwhelm, and that can happen with tidying too. And I feel like when you want to have an entry point or a place to start, I feel like decluttering those categories where you don't have to negotiate can be so freeing. So like for you, if you are starting with the clothing that's in your closet, if you're starting with your work stuff, if you're talking about your own individual work bag,

• 36:00Speaker 02

  like those are things that you're able to actually declutter and go through without negotiating with your wife, for example. Because I feel like so often when you have to declutter with With negotiating, that's when all of these other relational sort of issues start to pop up. And it's not to say that you never want to declutter, you know, with negotiating, but I feel like if you are inspired, it's like, start with your own stuff first, and then you gradually begin to take on the more complex sort of categories. And the decluttering process that I recommend, it's you first clear the space, then you start to sort the stuff because it needs to be in smaller categories.

• 36:41Speaker 02

  Then you can begin to assess what do you want to keep versus what do you want to move out? Before you then make the organizational plan for all of those items that you've chosen to keep. But I do feel like decluttering without negotiating first is a great place to start.

• 36:58Mike Carruthers?

  I remember hearing the advice that, and I've used it, is that when it's time, when you finally get in that mood to do some of what we're talking about here, to start with some surface, some place that's very visible. And don't go clean the back closet. Clean something that you can look at and you'll see and go, yeah, that felt pretty good to clean that up.

• 37:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely not. And, you know, most recently I did our like tech drawer, which I feel like everybody is great at bringing new tech in, but there's something about us that like holds on to all of those cords and chargers, even when we've gotten multiple duplicates forevermore. And so over the weekend, I was like, let me just set a timer for like 15 minutes. Let me pull all these cords out and actually see, can I sort these and get these reorganized into a way that's like actually usable for our family? And it was amazing to see, one, the like volume of cords that we had, but two, to be able to name, like which of the cords did I actually like? Like, what was the optimal length? Which ones were sort of like broken at the end?

• 38:05Speaker 02

  And it really reminded me of the power of that like 15 to 20 minute declutter with a very narrow category that then has so many positive impacts on your life. Like when your device needs to be charged, that you know exactly where to go for like the type A or the type C charger in a place that's like neat and tidy and organized.

• 38:30Mike Carruthers?

  Yeah, makes all the sense in the world. And I think everybody has that tech problem. I mean, we certainly do. We have a drawer so full of cables that God knows what they're to. We probably don't even have the device anymore, but we still have the cables.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I don't know what it is. I feel like sometimes there's this like doomsday scenario almost that we're all planning for. Like, we sort of have lived through doomsday scenarios, which is still coming out of the pandemic of 2020. But whether it's toilet paper, or coffee mugs, or like tech cords, you know, it's like, why do we need the volume that we do? Is it so that if we happen to have 30 friends who come over, and all of their cell phones are like dead, and they're expecting like important, like life altering calls that they all need to be charging their phones at the same time? Like, when you start to use a little bit of humor and ask yourself, like, am I planning for a doomsday scenario

• 39:27Speaker 02

  right now? That can sort of help you guide to what is that like just enough number? Or what is that just right number of the number of cords that you need that make you feel comfortable? So that when you open up that drawer, you can actually find what you need, as opposed to being frustrated that you can't find something. And then you have to go out and buy a new cord, because you lost the cord that came with your device. And then you're just continually bringing all of those like new things in.

• 39:53Mike Carruthers?

  What you just said about coffee cups made me smile, because we have in our cupboard in the kitchen, where we keep the coffee cups, I don't know, two dozen coffee cups. We use four of them pretty regularly, and the others just are in the back there. But we don't throw them away, because you know, Aunt Sarah gave us that teacup that no one has ever used in the history of the world. But we can't bear to throw it away.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it's funny and I feel like coffee cups, that's it's almost sort of like, I don't know what it is. It's a category for people and I don't know if it relates to deeper values that we have around like hospitality or it reminds us of seeing friends or sometimes people collect coffee mugs when they're traveling, but also they have those coffee mugs from like Aunt Sarah. But I do feel like if you can name for yourself also, like what is getting in the way because of that volume of coffee cups, that coffee cups, coffee cups that I have, like that can be an important place to start. And like, we live in a 750 square foot apartment. Like I just went through coffee mugs also recently and my daughters were like, Daddy, what are you doing?

• 41:05Speaker 02

  Those are all of our holiday mugs. And I was like, it's fine. I'm not getting rid of the holiday mugs, but I'm like moving them with the holiday stuff because they can't be out on these shelves for the next year. So I do feel like, you know, again, it's going back to that like doomsday scenario. Like, do you have enough coffee mugs to not wash your coffee cup for an entire month? Like if so, that may be too many. Um, do you actually have a coffee pot that's large enough? If all of your friends come over and everyone is holding a coffee mug, like can you actually fill up everyone's coffee mug at the exact same time? The answer is probably no. So like, that could be a category that you start examining and that could be a great sort of like testing ground for some of your decluttering skills.

• 41:52Mike Carruthers?

  There is that thing though. Like we have all these coffee mugs, but it doesn't bother us enough to do anything about it. I mean, no one has even brought it up. We just kind of notice it, but we don't, like it just hasn't risen to the level of we really need to do something about it. Probably if we get some more coffee mugs and we have no place to put them, something's gonna have to give.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think that that's okay. And I think that, you know, one of the philosophies that I like to share with people is this idea of being able to name what is just enough for you in any individual category. And I think that our spaces in our homes function best when we feel like we do have space for the things that we value or love or enjoy, that it's like so often, we can look at our square footage as being limiting, but it's often because we have an abundance of things in categories that are taking up space that might not be allowing those new things to come in, or be able to organize those things that we have a value.

• 42:55Mike Carruthers?

  I think everybody has struggled with organizing their kitchen properly. And I don't even really know what that means to organize your kitchen, other than you pick a drawer and you put all the spatulas in there, and then now your spatulas are organized.

• 43:08Speaker 02

  I think that this is when you look at a restaurant, or you know, those like MasterChef episodes, especially when you have like Gordon Ramsay, sort of like yelling at you, and you have the clock counting down. Like, restaurants have to be organized in such a way that the chefs, the sous chefs, the servers are able to get the food out to people in a timely manner. And as you mentioned, like so often when people move into a space, or when they're like unboxing items to go into their kitchen, you sort of adopt this like, put it wherever it fits, sort of mindset, that it's like, okay, there's a drawer over here, or there's a cabinet there, let me just put the stuff away. And oftentimes, you know, how people put things away when they first move in, moved in, whether it's five

• 43:53Speaker 02

  years ago, a decade ago, 20 years ago, it's sort of like, that is what set the organizational, like blueprint. And so I feel like zoning can be a really important sort of organizational approach, where it's like, within the kitchen, you need to have a prep station, you need to have a cooking station, you need to have a serving station, you need to have a cleanup zone. If you have kids, you need to have the items like where kids can access them. And that's exactly what the top restaurants are. Around the world do like there is this organizational blueprint and there is these zones that are established because the goal is to make really beautiful, wonderful, savory foods

• 44:35Speaker 02

  in a very quick or efficient manner because it could be the best restaurant in the world. But if it's not set up for efficiency and it takes two hours from the time you've ordered to the time that dish lands on your plate or on your table, like it's not going to taste as good and people aren't going to be happy.

• 44:55Mike Carruthers?

  Since you you talk to people and people watch your videos and communicate with you, what are the other what what are the other big problem areas that people seem to talk about?

• 45:08Speaker 02

  I think that people have these sort of like catch all zones and whether it is, you know, you live in a small space or you live in this like palatial sort of farmhouse. I've also had people who live in castles who are like, can you please just help me declutter? And I'm like, I think I can help you with that castle, but like first we've got to sort of pare down these different wings that you have. But I feel like people are notorious for having these like catch all, I'll get to it later sort of areas. And so often when you have closets or wardrobes or dressers, like you don't actually think about them as real estate that's important within your home. You know, like when we get architectural

• 45:48Speaker 02

  blueprints, we often see the purpose of the room that is named like it's very clear that there's the living room, there's the kitchen, there are the bathrooms. But then there are those smaller closeted areas that people don't give a specific name or purpose to. And so I feel like one strategy that I've I've shared with people is to actually treat your closets like rooms and like, can you name what is the specific function or purpose? And like, if you were doing this overhead layout of your entire space, could you tangibly name for yourself and for others, what the purpose of that closet is, which then helps you to set up the organizational system, which then helps you with the tidying process of putting things back in their place?

• 46:34Speaker 02

  Then can also help you with the process of cleaning, which is like the removal of dirt and grime and signs of life. But so much is interconnected and related and oftentimes that catch all can just feel like this huge overwhelming barrier that often is drawn from the fact that like you're not actually clear what the purpose of that space is in the first place.

• 46:56Mike Carruthers?

  And you know, that space is full of stuff, but you have no idea what exactly is in there.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  Yes. And then there it leads to that like over sort of like spending and consumption, because when you can't find something, you're like, well, I've got to go back out the store to get it. Or when you have, you know, a spouse or kids and you're like, just, you know, just go to that closet, just go to that bedroom. Like that's where it probably is. Like no one is actually going to take the time to sort through everything that's in there. And so I think that, you know, establishing the purpose, establishing zones, committing to stopping that trend of like, that's just our catch all space. I don't know. It's something that's really important because it, as I mentioned, it like leads to you going and buying more stuff. Or it leads to resentments or frustration, or sometimes just embarrassment where you just have that door that like, nobody's allowed to open.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  Nobody could go in there and you just sort of try to forget about it, even though it's sort of like subconsciously lingering for you.

• 47:54Mike Carruthers?

  Well, it's like that kitchen junk drawer. We have that and, and the only time anybody bothers to clean anything out is when you can't close it anymore because so much junk is sticking out of the top and, and you look in there and you don't even know what most of the stuff is in there. And there's notepads and pencils that don't work and pens that ran out of ink and.

• 48:15Speaker 02

  No, and then I, I just love that. Then it's like the person who found it somehow gets to become the person who like blames it on everyone else who lives in the house. Cause we've all done that. We've like opened the drawer and then it's immediately like, who put all this stuff there? Why is everyone doing this? Why can't people just put their stuff away? Even though you have may actually caused some of that disorganization yourself.

• 48:39Mike Carruthers?

  Because no one ever cleaned it. Stuff only goes in it, nothing ever comes out. I found a, I found a dog license from a dog that had died like years ago. Still sitting in a junk drawer.

• 48:51Speaker 02

  Yes, and it's like, well, I've held on to this for all these years. Like, why would I get rid of this now? Which again, just sort of perpetuates this cycle. And I think it's why, you know, the processes of decluttering and organizing, tidying, and then cleaning, I think it's why they're so important. And it's why those four really do need to be treated as separate, you know, sort of routines and systems that also all are intertwined. And it's just like, you know, a few months ago, my youngest daughter like completely clogged the down, the toilet, which then caused it to like flood into our downstairs neighbor's apartment. And, you know, it was like, where did I need to shut off that water?

• 49:32Speaker 02

  Like, our water valve for the entire bathroom is like underneath the bathroom sink. And like, if that was an untidy place, it would then cause, you know, me to not be able to actually get to the valve to turn it off. And it's one of those examples where, yes, that sort of feels like a catastrophe sort of like situation, but there are practical realities that like disorganization does make it really hard for us to maintain our homes. And when we don't maintain our homes, there are a whole host of issues that can surface and problems that can happen, where we have to throw money at things simply because we didn't like either know how to take care of it in the first place, or actually take care of it in a way that like keeps things maintained and organized.

• 50:17Mike Carruthers?

  Do you think though, that people really sit around and worry about this? I mean, you do, and the people who watch your videos and read your book clearly have a motive to want to fix something. But I wonder if just in general, people really worry so much about this? Or it's just some people?

• 50:38Speaker 02

  I think that just some people do, but you know, like the example that I gave of like, we have a cottage in Pennsylvania and one of the best things that we did when we purchased our home, a friend said, find yourself a home inspector that will allow you to walk around the house with you because that home inspector is actually going to teach you how to take care of your home. And that was one of the best things that I could have possibly done in like that, like two hour stretch of time that he allowed me to follow him around. He was like, here's how you turn off the water. These are things to look for in the crawl space. Here's how you want to get into the attic. And like, these are things that you want to check seasonally. Like just that two hour stretch of time gave me so much sort of like mental clarity on how to share or, and you know, how to take care of our space.

• 51:23Mike Carruthers?

  Well, all these things that you're talking about, I think nag all of us. And in many cases, it's not naggy enough to like, want to do anything about it. It's just kind of frustrating. But I think you've given people some inspiration that it's really worth putting in a little effort to learn how things work, discover where things are, tidy things up, and it just kind of lightens the load. I've been talking to Tyler Moore. He's the creator of the popular tidy dad Instagram, Tik Tok and website. And he's author of a book called, Tidy Up Your Life. And there's a link to that book in the show notes. Tyler, I appreciate you coming on and explaining all this.

• 52:05Speaker 02

  All right. Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me.

• 52:11Mike Carruthers?

  I came across an article several years ago about weird dreams that I always remember because I have been known to have weird dreams. And I found it again and thought I would pass this along to you because weird dreams, it turns out, could be a warning, a warning that you're really stressed out. The article quotes sleep researcher Rosalind Cartwright, who passed away a few years ago. She explains in this article that when your stress levels are high, your sleep cycle gets interrupted. She said, "Ideally, your dreams get progressively more positive as you sleep, so you wake up in a better mood than you were when you went to bed.

• 52:54Mike Carruthers?

  But when you're stressed out, you wake up more often, which disrupts this process and allows unpleasant dreams to recur all night. So if you've been plagued by weird or disturbing dreams, try to get a little more sleep and avoid caffeine and alcohol close to bedtime. And that is something you should know." The very best way you could support this podcast, and it takes very little effort, is to share it. Send the link to someone you know, maybe a couple of people, and ask them to listen. It helps our audience grow, and that's what we're trying to do. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know.

• 53:35Speaker 03

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• 54:02Speaker 04

  Pink Pantheress here. Coach and Spotify are teaming up to bring music and style together, and they want you to be part of it. Grab your friends and head to the Tabby Tour, hitting cities around the country with live performances from special artists, exclusive experiences, and personalized products. And discover custom playlists on Spotify, booked just for you based on who you are and how you listen. Live your story with Coach. Learn more at coach.com.