SC EP:1174 The Vagrant

Chad writes "Back in 1992, I was stationed at Ft. Lewis in the 3rd Battalion, 1st Special Forces Group (Airborne). We were running a force-on-force training operation. I don't recall the exact location—maybe an hour's drive from Lewis. Our task was to defend a simulated Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM) site consisting of a trailer and container meant to resemble a rocket launcher. We had two Special Forces Operational Detachment Alphas (ODAs) involved, roughly 20 guys total, plus a few support personnel. The site was backed up against the "no play zone," so any attacking team could only approach from the west. It was fortified: two M-60 machine gun nests, a perimeter of seasoned operators, M-16s for each of us, a couple of HF radios—basic gear for a simulated "enemy" approach. No high-speed tech, no grenade simulators that I can recall. The terrain was layered: a track in front of the site, then woods, then a clean trail parallel to a ridge 150 meters to the west. Beyond that, a large field of tall grass. Ferns covered the ridge slope—dense and knee-to-hip high. Our mission was to intercept and resist any attempt to assault the SAM site, likely between dusk and sunrise. We ran rotating two-man patrols along the trail, each covering a three-hour shift. The night of the encounter, I was paired with a Sergeant First Class—an 18D medic whom I'll call "Guy." He'd been in group for years. I was 22 at the time, on of the youngest on site. Moonlight was strong—brilliant enough to allow stealth movement. We paced slowly, stopping every few meters to kneel and scan. After an hour, we paused under a shadowed area. Guy lit a cigarette with quiet precision—no glow exposed. I asked how he did that. He smirked and said, "Sniper check." Then it happened. A deafening scream rang out from the ridge. At first, I thought it was an animal. But then came a bizarre shift: halfway through, it took on a human tone. Eight to ten seconds of sustained vocalization that morphed into a frantic, incoherent babble… and finally, a coyote-like cackle or laughing sound. The volume never dropped. We scanned the ridge. I spotted a silhouette—a massive figure, turning swaying side to side near a tree at the top of the ridge. It looked human. I thought, "Who in group is that size?" We went guns up. The figure turned north and walked away. We pursued him, assuming a diversion tactic to draw us away from the site. But despite jogging, we couldn't close the gap. He moved quickly—strangely so. This went on for nearly a kilometer and a half. The forest thickened. The ridge narrowed – bottle necked. And then the figure veered east—straight toward us—charging downhill like a bipedal rhino through underbrush. Not sticks snapping… limbs breaking. I think at this moment, I realized It wasn't human and started to categorize it. We veered northwest off the trail to intercept. It turned north, the woods were dark – perfect place for a kill zone, an ambush, I could still track its movement. Then… silence. It stopped moving. Total quiet. We crept forward—as noted this was textbook ambush territory. But nothing came. The smell did. It hit in layers. First: wet dog tangled with decay. Then: putrid infection, feces, rot. It overwhelmed me. As the stench peaked, dread set in. Danger. Immediate and primal. I glanced at Guy. He nodded: time to back out. We backed out—me facing rear, unwilling to turn my back. I feared a charge. Surprisingly, Guy was only 15 feet behind. I suspect he walked backward too. Eventually we hit the trail again, dazed. We stood in silence. Not tactical—just stunned. I have no concept of how long we stood there. I remember being totally surprised by how far we went, and how far off the trail we went. Almost like an unexplainable time warp. We never spoke of it again. The only time I had heard what Guy had experienced was later that morning as he debriefed the CO and some of the others. There is much more to this encounter that I would like to discuss with you."

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind and it either heard me or smelt me and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up and that, that shocked me. They don't make people that, that big.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything move like that in my life.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  They were screaming at each other in gibberish.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away, back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet that what I saw bears.

• 1:14Speaker 02

  911, what are you reporting?

• 1:16Speaker 03

  Jesus Christ, you better... Karen, see ya!

• 1:19Speaker 02

  Hello?

• 1:20Speaker 03

  Get somebody out here.

• 1:22Speaker 02

  What's going on now, sir?

• 1:23Speaker 03

  That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know.

• 1:26Speaker 02

  Do you see him now, sir?

• 1:27Speaker 03

  Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-uh.

• 1:35Speaker 03

  This is Jack from South Mississippi and you're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. So buckle up and hang on.

• 2:11Wes Germer?

  Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show planned for you. We'll be speaking to Chad and Chad was stationed at Fort Lewis back in 1992. He recalls this incident where his group came upon this giant creature that was screaming at them and they decided to kind of give chase. I'll let Chad go into it. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected]. And if you get a chance to check out sasquatchchronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want

• 2:55Wes Germer?

  to welcome Chad to the show. Chad, thanks for coming on.

• 2:59Speaker 05

  Hey, thanks for having me.

• 3:01Wes Germer?

  Yeah, and you had this incident back in 1992 while serving and thank you for your service. This happened on Fort Lewis. If you would take your time, I mean, what were you guys doing and what happened?

• 3:17Speaker 05

  Sure. So, you know, like I said, it's been 33 years, but it's one of those things is you just kind of don't forget. So I'll be as detailed as I can as I can remember. So I was, I was at Fort Lewis and I was in the first special forces group there and we're doing what we called force on force. So that's where we'd have SF team or special forces teams assault whatever targets. And at that particular time, we were, we set up a SAM site or a surface to air missile site, which was actually a trailer and then it had a container on top that, you know, it kind of resembled a makeshift missile launcher.

• 4:04Speaker 05

  And I think that we had probably maybe twenty plus guys and so equivalent to probably two operational detachment alphas, so two ODAs and some staff personnel. And we really didn't receive too much high-tech equipment, you know, it was just pretty much a M16s, I think a couple HF radios and we had a couple of M60 machine guns. And so we were fortified very well. And I don't recall exactly what training area we were at, but let's say it was a good half hour, forty-five minute from Fort Lewis.

• 4:43Speaker 05

  Um, in the, the terrain was kind of in layers, so facing east, the, you know, we'd had the SAM site and then we'd have, uh, just in front of us was a, a track or a trail for vehicles. And then wood line that probably went a hundred meters in, maybe a hundred and fifty meters. And then there was a, a trail and it was a very clean trail. What I mean by that is like there was no debris on it. You can move up and down this trail very easy. Wasn't a game trail, was purposely there and I don't know what reason. And then from the trail to the top of this ridge was probably, you know, the length of a football field.

• 5:26Speaker 05

  And then it plateaued and it was a, a very large, um, space field with tall grass. Our, our mission was pretty much, you know, fortify this, uh, this, um, SAM site while different ODAs or special forces teams would attack and number two, destroy the SAM site. So that was the mission. Um, our mission was we would, we would patrol on that trail back and forth, um, during the night hours. And, um, we'd do it two-man teams and I think it was about three or four hours, we'd patrol back and forth.

• 6:09Speaker 05

  In that, the particular night of uh this experience or this encounter was uh was just a beautiful night, the the moon illumination was just remarkable. And so it was myself and I I can't even remember the guy's name, which is the a very odd part, but um he was a he was a sergeant first class and he was a eighteen delta. An eighteen delta is a special forces medic. And um we would patrol back and forth, so we'd we'd use what we had, the elements in the forest to, you know, tactically move back and forth.

• 6:48Speaker 05

  We'd we'd move about five, ten feet, take a knee, kinda um stand near the the ferns. And the ferns were, I'd say they were between the knee and waist height, so they were pretty thick. So we would move back and forth. And um, you know, so we'd move, stop, take a knee, scan, listen, and we move. So our whole mission was to assault any element that was coming for the SAM site. So we were looking for that SF team that was gonna come through. We probably did this for an hour. And at the end of the trail, it kinda just came abruptly to a um a wood line.

• 7:30Speaker 05

  It was it was pretty dark, so I remember we went there and we were standing and uh since I can't remember his name, I'll just call him Guy. Guy pulled out his cigarette and he lit it. It was magical. He just did this, how he lit the cigarette was just uh um, you know, because tactfully, you know, people would cup it or they'd cover it and light it. The way he did it was just uh like impressive, it was like there was no light. And so I remarked, I was like, you know, that was a that was amazing. And he was like, oh yeah, we call this a sniper check. And so he did it how normally people would do it in the field. And so it was like a cup, cupping your hand over the the cherry of the cigarette and

• 8:15Speaker 05

  he drew on it. And it lit up his chest and neck area and part of his face with this red hue. Just after that, maybe, I mean, right away was this uh very loud scream.

• 8:32Speaker 05

  And I originally, I thought, oh, this is some bizarre animal. Or, you know, I was like, it was an elk or a sick elk or something, but it was very loud. And it sustained, and I think I'm being very conservative when I say eight to 10 seconds. It was a very long time, but so it screamed and at some point it switched to a, within that scream, like a male tone, a human male tone. And then it went to a male, kind of gargly babble. And then into a cackle, like a coyote, but it wasn't, it didn't sound like a coyote, but

• 9:17Speaker 05

  exactly like a coyote, but that's the best. And this went on for, like I said, 10 seconds, so it was on top of the ridge. And so our backs were to the ridge, so we turned around and 10 seconds was a lot of time to scan, to see what was, you know, what we're looking for. So we're looking back and forth and on top of the ridge, I seen a silhouette. And I know, you know, I've heard in podcasts of people saying, you know, like, you know, they peek around trees. This was, this guy, this big dude was just standing there, you know, two arms, two legs, silhouette. And I remember thinking, well, I was like, man, this is a big dude.

• 9:59Speaker 05

  And I was also thinking like, who in their right mind would do this? You know, this is not typical of, you know, any special forces team. I mean, these guys are masters of, you know, guerrilla warfare, no pun intended. But I was looking at these guys, this guy, and thinking, oh, he's huge. And if I knew who Shaquille O'Neal was back then, I would have said he was about the same size. So I was thinking like, who, who is this? And that silhouette was kind of rocking back and forth a little bit, at least it appeared to. And so we're facing east. At some point it turned north. And so that's to its left.

• 10:41Speaker 05

  And so it started walking across the top of the ridge. And I could hear it and I could see it. And so I'm, I'm, you know, so I'm, I'm thinking in my head like who, who's in, you know, the SF group that's uh that big, you know, I'm like, why would they do this? Is it, they're gonna be embarrassed? This is silly, you know, but our, we were either gonna go up the ridge after it, or we were gonna, you know, follow it, which this trail paralleled with the, the ridge. So we were sticking with it and I kept on, um, you know, keeping a good eye on it, although, you know, I was losing visibility, but I could hear it.

• 11:22Speaker 05

  And it was almost, you know, we were thinking, you know, I was thinking this was a diversion, you know, they were, it was, they were pulling us away. So I was expecting like the, the SF team to move in and assault the SAM site. Again, though, I was thinking this is not typical, this is really weird. And then I was thinking, okay, it might not be an SF team. Is there any other elements? Who might be out here with this? Doing this, so um, we're on that trail and kind of following it. And years later, I, I didn't realize this at first, but years later I was thinking like, man, we were jogging, we were moving pretty quick and I, and we, we weren't, you know, at an all out sprint.

• 12:03Speaker 05

  But we were moving pretty quick, trying to keep up with this. And I could see where it'd break, um, the moonlight, or I'd see a shadow, but I could tell it was still walking, plus I could, could hear it and it wasn't being quiet. So I, I originally at one point was thinking, oh, was it, was, is it, it's a big guy with a, a rucksack on maybe, that's why he's so big. But we keep on moving and I, I, it's hard to gauge, but it was probably a kilometer or so. It was just under a mile that we're following, when we're skirting with this. Well, the, that trail that we were on and that ridge, kind of bottleneck and the the canopy of the trees

• 12:48Speaker 05

  were uh thicker, so we were kind of losing that moonlight. It started getting darker. And we kept on, you know, keeping with this thing as best as we can. It was a, it was walking, but we're jogging, trying to keep up. And so we get to a certain spot and then all of a sudden, it turns west towards us and comes down this ridge and it's barreling through this uh, Um, to the brush and it would, you know, the only way I could like describe it was it sounded like a, a bipel rhinoceros. I could hear it stomping and it didn't just break

• 13:28Speaker 05

  sticks. It was breaking limbs. I mean, it was very loud and I was thinking like, okay, you know, somebody circus bear got loose or this is some big guy that kind of lost his steps and he, maybe he got momentum and I'm going to find him at the bottom of this ridge, you know, and so it barrels down and coming towards us, although we were, um, probably, I don't know, 25, 50 meters behind where it actually came down. It was kind of charging towards us, towards us. So we did what we were, anybody would do, I guess in this scenario

• 14:06Speaker 05

  is we went to intersect it. So we turned northeast towards it to intersect. Um, so we went off trail and we started breaking bush. Mostly at this point it was, it was just thick ferns. And so we slowed down quite a bit. Um, like I said, it was kind of bottlenecking. It became even more dark as we came up to where it kind of came down and I could still hear it, but I couldn't see it. And I don't recall seeing any movement. We were behind it at this point. So I don't, I don't remember how far we moved into the wood line, but we were behind it and I, I could hear it. So we were still tracking it. So at this point

• 14:51Speaker 05

  I'm going, man, this, this guy has to be beat up. And I'm still waiting to hear for a firefight, you know? And then I started realizing like, oh, we're in the kill zone. So this is the, like the perfect spot for ambush. So I'm like, oh, they're drawing us into the ambush. They got the big guy to chase us over here or to draw us in. And so me and Guy are moving in. Guy's right behind me. And um it it it's darker, the um trees are, is it more of an older forest at this point? And so we and we're closer to the ridge, so we had like no light from the moon. It was very dark.

• 15:35Speaker 05

  And um so it I could hear it and then all of a sudden it stops. It goes silent. So I pause and uh you know, scan, listen, looking for any movement. I look back at Guy, Guy's scanning, so I move uh probably another fifteen, twenty feet forward. And we're guns up, we're, I'm waiting for muzzle flash, uh flash grenades. And you know, cause that's our mission, that's what we needed to get done and you know. But I'm kinda going, alright, this is really still bizarre. So I I pause again, scan, look back, Guy's still doing the same thing.

• 16:19Speaker 05

  I don't know how many times we did this, but I remember the last time we did this. I start moving and I walk into this, it was like a wall of stench. And I I would always tell people when I when I told this story, and I haven't told this story to anybody except family for probably twenty-four, twenty-five years. When when I hit that, I would always, I would always say, yeah, it was like a dirty dog smell, a wet dog. But I can define that a little bit more. Uh when I was growing up, I had a good friend and um he had this dog that would get loose.

• 17:00Speaker 05

  And it would go and I don't know, rub up against roadkill. And so I went over to his house one day and he was like, uh, he's like, hey, I can't go anywhere until I wash the dog. And I was like, oh, I'll help you. Big mistake, but get the dog and it was such a foul smell. It was a dirty, wet dog with a decay, roadkill smell. So that was the first part of the smell. So it to me, and it uh this seems, it might be different than other experiences, but.

• 17:33Speaker 05

  There was layers to it. And that first layer, I continued moving in. I mean, I'm like, okay, well, you want to be around whatever dead animal here. Because my only reference of Bigfoot back then was, you know, Leonard Nimoy and Six Million Dollar Man. So I started moving forward and then I hit the next layer of smell. The only way, I mean, I've thought about this for years and I can almost still smell it, but it's a, it's kind of like a fecal matter, um, a really bad infection and urine mixture.

• 18:15Speaker 05

  And it was very pungent, very strong. And that is when, you know, and I really, I think there was like some kind of pheromone in it because instantly, you know, I don't want to say dread or fear, because I think fear is an awesome tool, especially in those moments, but it was, um, it was like, instantly I was like, this is a bad, we're, we're, we're in a bad situation. This went from a play, practice, an exercise, a training to, you know, like this is real world. This is, this, something bad is gonna happen. And the only, so I had to categorize it and I couldn't. I left the Bigfoot Sasquatch thing in the back of the head,

• 18:57Speaker 05

  my back of my head, but I was thinking, all right, you know, I'll just go with the bear thing. I was like, but you know, there's a grizzly bear on Fort Lewis. This doesn't make sense, but I had to, had to rationalize it because I, I paused, I stopped, I didn't move forward. And I was scanning, looking because it was quiet. There was nothing, no sounds. The ferns were tall and it was, um,

• 19:29Speaker 05

  I was like, I know if I turn my back, it's I'm gonna be pounced on. So I look back over at Guy. And Guy looks at me and he gives me the nod of like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna back out. We're not talking at all. He turns around, he takes point. But I, I couldn't turn around. I just, I felt unsafe. I felt like this is gonna be bad. I'm gonna be attacked by a Koyang bear or something on Fort Lewis. Isn't it cool? So I start backing up and I'm moving.

• 20:05Speaker 05

  I'm moving slow because I, I don't want to trip and fall, but I want to face whatever is coming on. And so as I'm moving and I, I can't recall, it was quite a distance I walked backwards. I did not feel comfortable. But at some point, I remember thinking, oh no, Guy's gonna leave me here. He's bailing. He's moving out. And so I, at some point, it was quite a distance, I felt comfortable enough. Where I was like, all right, back to my senses. And I turned around and I was so surprised to see he was only about ten, fifteen feet away from me. So I assumed that he must have walked backwards too. And I'm not sure, because I've never talked to the man about this. That's some of the weird part.

• 20:51Speaker 05

  So that was all very strange and weird to me and concerning. What, another part of this that kind of doesn't add up and I could never rationalize really exactly what was going on. When I was able to turn around and I was like, all right, I feel comfortable enough. I can turn around. I didn't realize like how far we had went. I didn't realize how far off the trail we went because we were moving and I was like, oh, we must be coming up to the trail now. Nope. All right. We getting a little closer. Nope. And we moved and moved and moved. Finally, we made it to the trail. And we were back into the, the beautiful moonlight.

• 21:36Speaker 05

  We're standing there and at one time did Guy and I talk or say anything? And there was like a time warp and I don't know if that's the best terminology, but there was like a.

• 21:48Speaker 05

  Where I I I can't account for certain time. I I think the whole scenario only took about ten minutes. I mean, we probably traveled a kilometer and a half or or more. But I remember standing there, you know, staring at a guy in the moonlight, you know, and neither one of us are saying anything. And I'm like, please don't light another cigarette. I remember thinking that. But we were standing there and then all of a sudden, you just saw where uh I hear coming from the SAM site. So we must have made it back to the front or the the area in front of the SAM site. I could hear movement coming in. I knew that was our replacements coming. So

• 22:32Speaker 05

  I knew there was like a loss of time. I don't and I don't even know make know if that makes sense, but I I remember hearing them coming in. They weren't being tactful, but or super, you know, stealthy because they I know they didn't want to sneak up on us, but you know, they weren't trying to be loud either. And I remember thinking like how soft they sounded, how quiet they were compared to this thing that was on the ridge.

• 23:02Speaker 05

  And so um they they come in and I think this was the only time anybody talked. I didn't say a word. I remember a guy giving them a brief like, yeah, we encountered something and went across the top. And I don't remember exactly how that went down. But he he he gave them a a detail like, yeah, it's north. Uh we're not sure what we were following and this is what happened. And so we went back to the SAM site and um you know, we didn't have tents or anything. So you know, I I just I I it was still dark out. So I think I just climbed into my uh sleeping bag and I don't recall if I slept or anything, but um at some point, you know, it was daylight, it was early morning.

• 23:47Speaker 05

  And I look over and I see Guy over there at the talk. So that's where um the tops are the top individuals. The commanding officer and higher ranking individuals and he looked like he was briefing them out. And so I go over there. And I'm, I listened to the, the tail end of it. And he was talking, he's like, we were in pursuit of something, it was moving across, um, it came down. We followed it this way. He was like, he was moving quickly, um, you know, and he was saying the same things I would have said. And, and if you, and Guy was, uh, he was like, he, he had been in special forces for, I don't know, ten, fifteen years.

• 24:32Speaker 05

  So everybody knew him. He was, he was a solid individual. So I remember the, uh, I think the commanding officer. So he called on the radio, I think it was, you know, the training coordinators or, um, whoever there was in charge of the entire training. And he called them and he, he said, hey, we experienced, we, you know, uh, element moving across this area and doing this. And was there any special forces teams in our sector, in our area? And they called back and there was like, no, the closest one, I'll never forget this, they said, no, the closest one was ten kilometers.

• 25:13Speaker 05

  I'm like, that's freaking six miles. I'm like, so, and so I'm like, okay. And then, um, he said, well, was there any elements, any, any known elements? And they were like, no, no, you guys are over there by yourself. There's nothing going on. So I'm thinking, wow, all right, this is, this is crazy. I didn't want to say out loud, like, oh, it's Bigfoot or Sasquatch or, you know, um. And then I remember there was a guy, Mike, he, um, super cool guy. He was on one of, he was one of the team guys. He's one of, uh, one of the teams. And, uh, I think this is where things kind of changed a little bit. I, I learned a little bit about.

• 25:54Speaker 05

  The encounters everybody else has had. So he slapped me on my, my chest and he was like, uh, like you, it looks like you chased yourself some Bigfoot there, hard charger. And I was like, what is going on here? And so there was a, another team that was there and I had, I was talking to them and, and they actually had a name for, for it because there has been, there was a lot of encounters or experience with this in, you know, in different O D A teams or special forces teams. And I remember, um, they call them a, a vagrant or they call them the vagrant man. And that was one particular team. And, uh, I remember they were like, I was,

• 26:39Speaker 05

  I had asked, I was, what, what, so what was this thing? They were like, oh, that's the vagrant man. I was like, why? What is that? A freaking hobo out there? What are we talking about? And they were saying, no, this is, uh, no, it's a guy. He just was out in the woods, just leave him alone, stuff like that. And so it was almost like a rite of passage. Like a lot of these guys had had experiences or knew of experiences. But that, that didn't, that didn't solidify it for me. I needed, you know, I was, uh, you know, I was young. I was only twenty-two, twenty-three. So I was really, you know, unaware. I wasn't sure. So I couldn't hold back. I, I started

• 27:18Speaker 05

  asking everybody and I started receiving stories. And so, um, I went to a couple, I told all my buddies. I was like, yeah, listen, this is what happened. This is what, but I had went to some, uh, seasoned individuals that I knew had been in that S F unit for quite some time. And so I, I had asked one, he was a, he was actually in a Ranger battalion prior to going into S F. And he was telling me in like the mid eighties, he was like, yeah, there was a, a whole squad of Rangers chased down in pursuit and couldn't keep up with.

• 28:03Speaker 05

  A creature for, you know, I've heard the difference of some say five kilometers, some say five miles, because I had heard that story several times asking around. Um, I, I then, I went to, we went, um, it was probably a month later, we went to, um, North Fort Lewis had a jump master school. And so I had the opportunity there to talk to a lot of different guys from different teams. And, you know, just saying, you know, they were like, oh yeah, that, that stuff happens, man, you just ignore it. Don't mess with them, you know, so you get that kind of information. But I went to, um, and anybody that's ever been in first group, third battalion would

• 28:47Speaker 05

  know who I'm talking about. This guy's a legend. I saw, I went to him and I was like, hey, Tom, have you ever had this experience? Because this is what I had. And I gave him the snapshot and he said, um, yeah, I had my own experience. And he proceeded to tell me that they were out doing some patrolling training at a training site. And he, it was just him and his team. He was a team sergeant at the time. And they were, um, doing whatever they, whatever training. And he said in the evening, they were, they were trained late into the evening and then they, they kind of just chilled out around a campfire and, um, you know, debriefed. And he said, then, you know, they just all

• 29:29Speaker 05

  crashed out, went to sleep. And he said, he woke up and he looked over and he was about 10 feet away. He said, there was this hairy guy squatted over the, the fire, kind of like messing, poking its finger into the coals or using a stick, I think is what he said. And then he, he said, he didn't even say that he just watched it. And he said it stood up. Then it wasn't very tall, very big. It was hairy and it had long hair hanging off its arms. And he said, he watched it walk down, um, the trail and then, um, turn into the woods.

• 30:07Speaker 05

  But you know, so there was always, you know, a lot of conversations, you know, when I had conversations with people, but there was always a lot of, um, you know, like, it was like, oh yeah, no, you're gonna see that stuff. Yep, no, it happens. So it was way more common and at, I can't, nobody ever made fun of me in that scenario. It wasn't until I, I came, you know, back home and, and then I, you know, told somebody the story 24, 25 years ago. And I was like, okay, yeah, that was a mistake. Um, and then, you know, just share it with friends, close friends and family. But so that's, that's kind of the story in a nutshell.

• 30:53Wes Germer?

  You know, there's one thing that's been eating at me over the years, Chad, and maybe you can kind of help me understand. You know, on these military bases, encounters consistently happen. I could probably name off like 10 military bases right now where encounters consistently have happened over the years. And Fort Lewis is notorious for sightings. I've had so many people, I've lost count of how many veterans I've actually talked to that were on Fort Lewis that encountered the creature. And what I don't get is it seems like if I ran a military base, I was in charge of everything. And I was getting these reports from enlisted men and women about running into this creature.

• 31:38Wes Germer?

  I'd be like, wait a minute, what the hell's going on here? This guy said he ran into someone as big as Shaquille O'Neal and they couldn't catch him. I mean, I would kind of want to look into it, but it never gets looked into. Why is that?

• 31:54Speaker 05

  You know, I don't know. I mean, it's almost, and you know, I know in that particular time, that with that SF community that there was quite a few guys that knew and they were higher enlisted. I mean, we're talking, uh, E6 to E8 and officers, you know, they were like, yeah, yeah, this stuff happens. You know, don't mess with it, it'll go away. But I don't know, I have no answer to that. I'm.

• 32:27Speaker 05

  I don't, I don't know if there's like, there's just no value to them. Cause I think if there was a value to, then they're like, all right, let's snatch one up, um, or put one down. But, you know, then I, I don't know. I think maybe others are like, yeah, no, you're probably spending too much time in the, in the woods or, you know, so I, I don't know. I don't think I really have a clear answer to that.

• 32:53Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I think it's one of my main arguments why I believe the government is covering it up because it's happening in their home and yet they have no interest. No one really seems to care. I don't get it. I interviewed a retired Colonel one time and I asked him that question and he basically told me, you know, if you want your career to move forward, you know, your opinion is irrelevant. You want your career to move forward, you keep your mouth shut and just do your job.

• 33:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, that, that I, yeah, that's probably true. Maybe more in the, the officers, I would imagine. I think enlisted, they're like, yeah, we really don't give a crap, you know, and, um, but I would say in officers because that's more of a, a political, I think, drive for those individuals to move up in rank. So I would imagine, but I don't know. I, I think as, as far as like the enlisted, I don't know. I don't, I don't think it mattered as much. Maybe because of, I don't know. I don't, I don't know if there's, there is any situations where people were injured. I think if somebody was injured, maybe there would be more of an interest or like, all right, what's, what's ruining our soldiers here? I know, you know, a lot of SF guys, you know,

• 34:07Speaker 05

  they, they spend their entire life doing that and they've put a lot of money in these guys. And if they're getting injured by some creature you can't account for, then I would think that there was probably, there would probably be more involvement by upper, upper echelon.

• 34:26Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I can't say that I've ever interviewed someone who had been injured or reported an injury from one of these creatures on a military base. I interviewed this veteran one time and they were doing live fire on the range. I want to say they were firing mortars, but it was a live range and down range this what they thought was a guy dressed in all black comes running out of the woods right onto the range where they're firing and the range instructor called ceasefire and he was pissed. He couldn't wait to get his hands on this guy that came out on the range when they were firing. Well, the more they looked at this thing, they realized even

• 35:07Wes Germer?

  from a distance, this is way bigger than a man and it's all black. And I remember when he said this thing kind of looked in their direction and then took off for the wood line. He goes, it was running like a man, but it was doing probably 35, 40 miles an hour. I mean, right then and there when it took off, he goes, I've never seen anything or any man run that quick. It definitely goes on on these bases and it has for decades, you know. When you guys very first saw this creature, how far away from you was it?

• 35:43Speaker 05

  You know, so it was on top of the ridge and the incline to the ridge was it was not too much of a challenge. Well, I would say maybe the length of a football field. Even that at that distance, I could tell it was a big guy or, you know, plus it was very bizarre because you know, nobody in that was just not a tactic anybody would go with. It was, it was the scream that you really got my attention. At first I thought, oh yeah, it's gotta be an animal of some sort. But when it went into that, that male tone, that human male tone, I was like, oh no,

• 36:21Speaker 05

  it's, it's a person. It was very loud, way louder than, you know, I think any human can, you know, sustain, but probably a football field length away.

• 36:37Wes Germer?

  You know, you had mentioned the babble that you heard after the scream. Did it remind you of the Sierra sounds?

• 36:46Speaker 05

  Yes, yeah, very close because of, yes, it did. You know, Wes, I, it was like, um, years later, I, when I, I got dial up internet, I, uh, I searched, I was like, I forgot what I put in, but it was very similar. And I think it was like 1974 Sasquatch scream, puyallup, Washington.

• 37:19Speaker 05

  And I remember hearing that for the first time since then, and it was very close. It had that long screech. And then there was like some cackling at the end.

• 37:34Speaker 05

  You know, kind of a very similar to like a coyote cackle. But yeah, there was, um, it went from like an animal scream, male tone to a, uh, yeah, like that Sierra babble right into this, uh, really clever cackle. It was very similar to a coyote. And when I say it was eight to 10 seconds, it could have been longer. I was being very conservative in saying that. I just remember like it was long winded. That's a lot of time. So we, as soon as I heard it, I remember we turned around.

• 38:16Speaker 05

  I, we may even stepped off trail, getting ready to go up towards it, um, to make contact. But, you know, I, I don't remember if, it must've been like it moved out behind a tree. But, you know, when I hear other podcasts and they're like, oh yeah, I see him peeking behind a tree. I didn't see any eye shine or anything like that. It was just a dark silhouette. It kind of rocked back and forth. And then it seemed like it turned. Like its upper torso a bit because that's when I was like, oh, it must have a ruck on, but no. No, I, I think it was just, it had some girth to its upper chest. It was just wide. And then when it was moving across the ridge,

• 39:02Speaker 05

  you know, and I didn't, like I said, I didn't think about this until way later was like how fast it was moving, walking and us jogging to keep up. And, you know, of course we, I'd stop and pause for a second and then, you know, we'd keep moving. It was fast. So when you say, you know, that creature went 35 miles an hour, I think if this thing was at full speed. I'm like, yes, y- yes, I could see that thing moving quick. It, to me, it, it was a diversion. You know, and that's what I originally thought. I thought that we were being diverted away to either be ambushed or they can assault the, the Sam site. I think this thing was doing the same thing. I think it was diverting us away

• 39:46Speaker 05

  for some particular reason. And I'm going to say this, I think when I was in that, that Bigfoot stench, i- if I would have took two steps forward,

• 39:59Speaker 05

  it would have been, I wouldn't be talking today. I think it would have been a, I think Fort Lewis commander would have to figure out why one of the soldiers was, was mutilated by this thing. And, you know, I, you know, it was so loud when it was coming down that, uh, that, um, that ridge. The, I, I, you know, I've had a bear encounter just last year and it was a 300 plus pound male black bear. That was probably 15 feet away. And I didn't even hear that thing coming towards us and it was being chased by, by hounds towards us. My wife and I, when we were backpacking. And, um, that, that little bear had nothing on this thing. That's why I was like,

• 40:44Speaker 05

  you know, it had to be a grizzly bear because they had to be a, that size. But I could hear its stomach was bipedal. It was running, you know, I remember, you know, I, I, I had nothing to base it off, you know, I, I did, I heard these stories. There was a place, um, I forgot the name of it. I think it was in Tacoma, um, C and L Monkey Store or Circus Store.

• 41:12Speaker 05

  It was like a thrift store. I think it was C and L. Um, it had like a clown on it on the sign. One of my friends was like, hey, you gotta go check this place out. It's a thrift store. It's um, it's in Tacoma and it had Ivan the gorilla. They had Ivan the gorilla in there. And so I was like, what? You know, I'm, let me, cause I wanted, I, I, I wanted to rationalize what this was. So I can't tell you how many times I went and visited Ivan, um, but I would go to this thrift store, but you know, I'd get a friend or somebody to go and uh, I went in there and you know, I would, I stand, stood there staring at this poor gorilla and going, uh,

• 41:58Speaker 05

  is this what I'm seeing? Is this what I seen? And I'm like, no, he was smaller than this thing. You know, as it is, and plus, you know, I seen this thing walking. And so I, I think Ivan, I think they moved him like right after, not too long after that, maybe nineteen ninety-four or something. They finally get that gorilla of his uh, submit prison or whatever he was in. But um, and I, I remember going, you know, I had to rule out big monkey guy. I, I wasn't even sure, you know, I couldn't even, couldn't even put that, it put him in. I was like, all right, somebody's, you know, loose gorilla. Where we were at, uh,

• 42:41Speaker 05

  I, again, I don't really recall. I remember we called it Rainier Training Area. And so I was thinking, um, was it near Mount Rainier? I don't recall. I don't think Fort Lewis has a training area there. I don't know. I don't remember.

• 42:57Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I want to say that they do. For some reason, I remember veterans telling me being up near um, Mount Rainier when they were training at Fort Lewis. You know, you had brought up the uh, Puyallup Screamer. And I think I have that here. And this was going on back in the early seventies. People were hearing this and recording it. It made local news. No one could figure out what this thing was. Uh, but here is a Puyallup Screamer.

• 43:52Wes Germer?

  I love the guy at the end where he's like, oh my God. Uh, that's what I would have been saying. You know, over 30 years later, um, I ask everyone, what do you think Sasquatch is? What's your take?

• 44:06Speaker 05

  You know, that I, you know, you thought about that over many years now. And, uh, for me, and I'm not denoting anybody else's experiences, but I was a, that was a living creature. You know, I, I, you know, I, I hear other people saying, you know, forgive me because I really, I never really studied, studied this, you know, I've watched very little to nothing on like Finding Bigfoot. Um, or anything like that, maybe a documentary here and there, but as, as far as what that, that was, you know, I mean, like did somebody get funky with a monkey or did somebody's like circus bear get loose?

• 44:50Speaker 05

  Um, you know, and these were all the things that, you know, you go over.

• 44:55Speaker 05

  I can't say it was a primate, but I know it wasn't human. It functioned human by the way it moved. Um, I think it was drawing us, like I said, I think it was drawing us away. Maybe it was drawing us away for a particular reason. I think it had the opportunity to, uh, remove us from the situation, but it didn't take that opportunity. I think it, it gave us a warning and we, we ignored the warning and kept, kept on pursuing. And then it did this, uh, this, you know, Bigfoot spray of some sort, uh, you know, let you know you're, you're in a danger zone. And um, so I, I think it's a, it's a definitely it's an animal. I think it's like the David Bane Blaine of uh,

• 45:40Speaker 05

  of the forest. I mean, I think it uses its uh, its element because I think as a human, but I would have went low too. I wouldn't went up a tree. I think a bear goes up a tree because it's afraid. I think this thing probably went low. I think it will, I went in once I learned about the um, quadrupedal or that it crawls like a spider. I was like, yep, well, okay, there it is, man. I think this thing went low. I think it went below the ferns. And I think if I would have took a two steps forward, just a few steps forward, I think I would have been, it would have swept my legs and it would have been over. Um, you know, good thing guy was a medic, but I think he would have been tore up too.

• 46:20Speaker 05

  You know, so I, I don't know. I, I, other than, I know, I'm pretty sure for me, my experience, it was a, it was a, it was a animal, it was a creature. It functioned that way. I just think it's like, it's an apex of the forest. It's uh, very smart. But you know what? So our orcas and um, gorillas. So I think it's this, it uses, uses its uh, its environment. And um, it was able to pull us away from wherever it needed to be pulled away from and um, and then they had to give us warnings. But um, yeah, I, I, I, I don't, I don't know. I just, I think it's an animal.

• 47:06Wes Germer?

  Yeah, and I think that's a fair answer, Chad. And I get why people say that. Um, in your email, you talked about seeing the lights. You mind tell me about that?

• 47:17Speaker 05

  All right. So the first time was probably in two thousand and, probably two thousand, two thousand and one. Uh, my wife and I, we went to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

• 47:30Speaker 05

  Where there's a Paulding, Michigan, or the Paulding Lights. I don't know if you've ever heard of them. And that was the, the first time. So I, we were gonna go up there backpacking at the Porcupine Mountains. And so on the way, we're gonna hang out there and see if we could check out those lights. And, uh, so we get there, um, we spend the day. And then we just kinda hung out in this like parking lot area. Apparently, you know, there's, you know, legends, it's a ghost of a, a railroad, um, worker that was hit by a train. Um, then I guess it could be gases or it's, um, UFOs or whatever it might be.

• 48:13Speaker 05

  Um, but we waited there. It was probably around 2:00 AM. Uh, we started to see the lights down this trail. So we got out of the vehicle and we went closer to the trail. Earlier that day, I went down the trail and back and, I mean, there was nothing exciting, but when the lights kinda appeared, so it was like two lights and they'd kinda shift in colors. It seemed like blue, red, and then white. And then there was two of these things kinda floating around. Um, and they kinda moved forward a bit and then kinda moved back. Um, the creepiest part of that was, um, you know, some, some lady was behind us and didn't even know.

• 48:58Speaker 05

  And she was like, uh, you know, in a very raspy voice telling us that they come all the way up to, um, the guard rail that was there. She said, oh yeah, they've come up all the way to the guard rail and, you know, bounce around the cars and, um, this particular time they did not. So that was the, the first time, um, and I guess it's pretty frequent. So that's a Paulding, Michigan. The second time, my sons and my nephew and I were backpacking on the north country trail um Manastee National Forest. And so we're, we decided to camp for that night. And so I set up my camp, I didn't put a canopy or the rain fly over my uh, my tent.

• 49:43Speaker 05

  It was this beautiful night, so I was laying there and I woke up and the, and I peered down the trail. So the trail goes to a opened area where um power lines went across the river and, and then another forest or wood line was probably, I don't know, two, three hundred feet across or from where I was. And then just inside that wood line, there was a, a very large, I would say it was probably four feet. It was, it wasn't a bright light, it was a soft light, it was kinda dull, it was a circle light.

• 50:24Speaker 05

  It did not, it didn't seem to like illuminate, but it was just a soft light. So I watched that for a while. It really didn't move much, it kinda moved a little back and forth. So I'm thinking, maybe that's a reflection of something. I had no explanation, I just watched it for a while. I think I probably dozed off, I wake back up and it was gone. It was still dark out. And then the, the next morning, I, you know, I asked my sons and uh my nephew, I was like, hey, did you guys see this? And they were like, no, we didn't see this at all. So, you know, it was no big deal. Um, probably a few years later was my third time. And this, this one was a, a little bit more active, so I was uh doing on the same trail,

• 51:07Speaker 05

  but more north of where I was, the, at the, that last sighting. I had stopped for the night and I was sleeping in a hammock. And um, I, you know, kind of looking around and I could hear some moving or movement in the tree line to my left and uh, I look over there, it looked like two people were moving around. Actually, I didn't see like people, I just seen what I thought was their headlamps. But it was like, it was, again, there's like um, probably the size of a plate, about eight inches, twelve inches.

• 51:48Speaker 05

  And they were kind of moving around and they were, it was, as they were moving around, I, I didn't notice if there was like any different colors.

• 52:00Speaker 05

  Um, but they didn't illuminate the light. So I was like, this is weird, but so I just watched for a while. And they were loud over there, like I could hear sticks being moved, things being dropped. And I'm, I'm thinking to myself like, man, people, you know, hiking in late, you know, and, you know, loud, you know? So, and there wasn't very many people on the trail that particular time. So I'm watching them, this went on for maybe a, I don't know, a half hour, a lot of ruckus over there. I could hear like, maybe like a log or something being moved or dropped or tossed. Sticks being broke, I didn't recognize like anybody stepping, just a lot of movement.

• 52:45Speaker 05

  And so, that next morning I get up and I, I was like, oh, I'm, I'm just gonna walk down that way a little bit and see what's going on. And I walked down that way and I'm like, there was nobody there, there was nobody camped there. Um, I couldn't tell if there was in too much movement in that particular area. But it was like the worst place to, you know, pitch a tent anyways, it was on, was on a ridge. Um, and so that, that was probably the last

• 53:16Speaker 05

  situation. I, I don't recall having like any other, there was, there was another time though, I was like, uh, oh yeah, this another light, but it turned out to be the moonlight. So I'm always, you know, where when I go backpacking in that area, you're probably gonna see lights in the woods. I remember that my wife and I, when we went backpacking last year, I had told her she hadn't been there in a long time. I was like, like, yeah, you, there's, you'll probably see lights in the woods. Here or, but you know, that particular time I didn't see any.

• 53:48Wes Germer?

  Yeah, the lights are very strange. I could see how people would confuse them for, you know, people walking with flashlights or something like that. The second time I've seen them, that that was the very first thought I had. Oh, that's somebody with a flashlight. But I wouldn't say the the lights are really scary. They're just weird. You know, when you come across them and they don't put off a lot of light. It's more like a soft light and kind of a pretty light, but I wouldn't say that they're terrifying.

• 54:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, you know, I know I didn't. I wasn't afraid, you know, it didn't like concern me. You know, I just being interested, intrigued by it, like what it's just a phenomenon. I remember somebody a long time ago telling me like, you're gonna see a lot of things when you're different countries, you know, because I think we were talking about, um, me and my friends were talking about black magic and we were in Asia and we were kind of talking about because we were concerned we're going into this area where, I mean, they practiced, uh, um, black magic or something of that nature. And I remember one of the the older, older guys came and he was like, listen, you guys are gonna

• 55:07Speaker 05

  see all kinds of stuff, you know, even you're gonna, you know, recognize that you're gonna hear this, you're gonna recognize that things are way different than we're used to. You're gonna see things you can't explain or understand and that you probably never even explain or talk about. He's like, um, but you you respect their culture. Don't mess with it, you know, and he went through this litany of things to not do. Like, don't mess with their, don't mess with their, their women, you know, respectful to them. Know their all their elders, know their, their, their culture, their rules. And so, you know, I guess, and I just kind of always carried that with me. It's like, yeah, I'm not gonna mess with anything, you know, the I, um, but you're right, it's just

• 55:52Speaker 05

  seeing those lights are kind of cool. I mean, it wasn't, it was just different.

• 55:58Wes Germer?

  I find it interesting that the same time you were seeing these lights, you were hearing this noise in the background like somebody was moving something or doing something. And I've had, you know, people report rocks being thrown at them. The same time they're seeing the lights, but there's nothing around that's throwing rocks. They couldn't figure out where it was coming from. You know, before we started recording, you had mentioned this paranormal incident that happened. And I wanted to ask you about that.

• 56:29Speaker 05

  Well, there, there's quite a bit. So I've been working in a juvenile correction system for quite some time and the building that the old building, which is actually scheduled to be leveled any day now. So there was two parts of this building. So there was like a 1926 building. And then a 1957. So it was a very large, secure juvenile detention center. And so when I first started working there, you know, I wasn't very in tune or caring so much about

• 57:13Speaker 05

  any paranormal stuff or really not, not to say I didn't believe, I just didn't really care or paid attention or was interested in it. That was soon to change. So I worked there for 23 years. And there are, I got so many accounts. I have pictures. There was, we had video of things that we can't explain, doors shutting, slamming, things like that. So there were, for example, one, one situation and I got quite a few. There's a lot of stories on this and like, actually just today I was in a meeting and somebody was like, oh, was that old building haunted?

• 57:59Speaker 05

  I'm like, yep, it was. We always get a police officers come in and want to talk about it or experiences that they've had or hearing about this facility. So it was very active. So one example was we had this conference room that actually was at one point, early on, probably.

• 58:21Speaker 05

  Late 50s, early 60s, it was the, the living room to the director of the facility. And so we made it into a conference room. So we had a conference table in there. That's where we'd have meetings. So during COVID, we, um, we put a, a computer monitor in there, a computer. And we would have Zoom meetings or, um, and so this, this monitor was sitting on there. And, um, I was in my office and I heard a, a something smash. And so I started walking that way. And one of the secretary of the facility was standing in one doorway.

• 59:04Speaker 05

  And, um, one of the staff was standing in the other doorway. And they're just looking at each other. And I was like, oh, you know what's going on? And they were like, computer just flew off the desk here, off the table. I was like, oh no, come on. So I go and I look and the computer's on the floor. And so I put it back up there. And I called somebody up. I was like, hey, let's try to debunk this and rule this out. Although I knew because this, you know, working all those years, there was, uh, there's quite a few active Holtergeist kind of activity. So we, we couldn't figure it out. We were like, we don't know why it went off the desk. So we set it back up and probably a week or so later, the union rep, he was like, hey, I need to talk to you.

• 59:48Speaker 05

  And so we go into that room, we shut the door and we're standing at the far end of the, the room and he and I are talking and he said something, we were talking about somebody we were dealing with, um, and he's like, oh yeah. And, and he said, you know, you know, this person was just a pain. And all of a sudden that computer flies off the desk, hits the wall and smashes on the floor. And so we were just both standing there and we were like, Um, like, did you hit the table? And like, no, I didn't hit the table. Or like, how'd that happen? And, you know, there was just no answer to it. Um, another experience or situation was, I was a, I was a on-duty supervisor at the time. I, so I picked up some overtime working the third shift.

• 1:00:34Speaker 05

  So I went over to one of the wings and they had a gym over there. And they had a workout ball, a crunch ball. So I would take the crunch ball and I'd go back to the office and I'd do sets every fifteen minutes or every half hour. So I went and got this, this workout ball and I go into the gym and, um, shut the door, you know, check on the staff that was over there. They were all good. I go back up to the front office where all the cameras are and I'm the only person up there. There's nobody can get in the building or go through the building without me authorizing through the doors. So all of a sudden I get a call on the radio and they were like, hey, were you, are you over here messing with me?

• 1:01:18Speaker 05

  And I'm like, no, what are you talking about? No, I'm not over there. And they're like, are you sure you're, you're not over here? And I was like, no. So I go and look on the camera and I see the staff sitting in this, uh, this room and she's, uh, you know, behind a table in the center of this room, uh, looked like she was praying. Well, she was, she was praying. So I was like, I better go over there and check it out. So I go over there and that door that I was in was wide open. And, uh, I go over there and I was like, what's going on? She was like, there was things being moved around. I could hear like slamming in the gym. And then she said, all of a sudden this door slams open. And I was like, oh yeah, I don't know, you know, just check that out.

• 1:01:59Speaker 05

  So that was like, you know, that, that happened in this, this one timeframe. And then this one timeframe, we started having a lot of. Unexplainable kind of activity. For example, like lights turning on and off. Or, you know, I was sitting in this room and I had a group in there and we were discussing what was in a group of these kids. We're discussing what was going on and all of a sudden the door. I mean, you know, there was no pressure change in the building. The door just starts opening. And so I joking around said, and I called it Danny. I didn't know what to call it. So I was like Danny, you know, quit messing with us. Shut the door and the door slams.

• 1:02:42Speaker 05

  So the, so the ghost got the name Danny. But there was another time, uh, I was coming up and there was like this, uh, intake area. And I walked by it and there's nobody up there except one other person and she's in that area monitoring, um, cameras and opening doors. And I come walking by and I walk by this, what we called a, a intake search room. So when they come in, this is where we search them. And the door was wide open and it's pitch dark in there. And I walked by like perfectly, I heard, hey you. And I was just, I just kept a walk in. I was like, no, I'm not messing with that. And, uh, I go and I look in there at, at the, the staff that was in there and she looked

• 1:03:25Speaker 05

  at me and she's like, I heard that too. Like dang it, now I gotta go look. I gotta see if, you know, who's in there. So I go in there and there's absolutely nobody. But there's a, I can go on and on with these paranormal kind of activities where doors close, slam. Um, when we moved out of that building and we moved into our new building, uh, myself and the maintenance director was the only two individuals that were authorized to go in that building and had keys to it. So it's a high secure facility. So it's, you know, not too many people would want to break in. Um, so I, I went in, I'd go in there and

• 1:04:08Speaker 05

  Uh, you could hear people moving around. And so we would, you know, I would either call somebody like, hey, or I'd just go check and make sure that there was nobody in the building. But there would be certain areas throughout the building that you could hear movement. I had put a, um, a digital recorder on there that would only turn on when there was noise. And, um, I put it in, uh, certain areas and one area I was like, you know, I really, this is dumb of me, but I was like, uh, you know, I'll, you know, say something like, yeah, if you wanna, you wanna talk, just talk to this. And I don't do that stuff, but I did.

• 1:04:50Speaker 05

  And so I put it in this room where, um, there was a really bad incident back in the seventies. And so I said, uh, you know, if you wanna talk or say anything, do whatever you want. Just talk to this thing and I left for the night, locked the door. Nobody could get in that facility, come back and listen to it and you could hear doors slamming all night long. I mean, you can hear them in the distance. And so there's just a lot of little paranormal stuff like that.

• 1:05:19Wes Germer?

  What do you think was causing it? So, so it's kind of like an old part of a building that you guys were no longer using or were about to no longer use?

• 1:05:30Speaker 05

  Yes. So, you know, the, the old part of the building, which we didn't really use, um, was actually like, it was a foster care and, um, and, uh, adoption agency and then, you know, like the early thirties, they had put detention rooms in there. Um, and then they added on to that building with, you know, more secure back, back in the fifty seven, they added more of these, uh, detention wings is what we call them. And then they did that also in sixties. And so I know that there had been two individuals here in the early seventies and I think

• 1:06:12Speaker 05

  the early eighties that had died in there. Um, one was on one of the wings, uh, the young man on Easter morning hung himself. And, uh, so actually I, I, I did get a lot of information from the previous director. So he worked there for fifty-four years, which is paranormal in itself, but you know, he, he knew all these accounts. So I had details on this. But, um, yeah, so a young man committed suicide in one of those rooms back in, I think it was, uh, the seventies and then, or the late seventies. And then, um, another young man,

• 1:06:57Speaker 05

  he was in a, what they call a residential treatment program. So it was a medium secure. So he would go off campus and then he came back. I think he was, uh, from my understanding, he was upset because family didn't come and visit him and he had snuck, um, uh, I don't think cigarettes, but he, uh, snuck in, uh, matches. And so he caught his mattress on fire. And back then they'd have fire retardant stuff. And it wasn't really that secure, but I guess he caught his mattress on fire in this one particular room. That's where I put the recorder that one time. But we used to, we used to put kids in that room. Of course, it was, this is many years later and kids would tell us like, ah, you know, I woke up

• 1:07:42Speaker 05

  in the middle of the night and there was this kid sitting at my desk. Or, you know, we'd hear those kinds of stories quite a bit. Um, in the, in the other room, you know, we, a lot of times, I, I remember a kid came to me and he was like, he was like, listen, I got an issue. I was like, what is it? And he was like, would you please tell that kid that you guys have staying up late to qua- stop looking through my window? Cause you know, there's cells and there's these small windows and, you know, um,

• 1:08:17Speaker 05

  He was saying that I was like, how do you know it's a kid? He was like, cause he's short and he keeps on looking in there at me. Would you tell him to stop doing that through the night? I don't know who's bringing their kids in here, but they need to stop. So we get things like that, you know?

• 1:08:32Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I don't think I would handle that very well. I think I'd probably quit. Did you ever have anyone quit over this?

• 1:08:39Speaker 05

  You know, I don't recall. I know back in the day, we used to write incident reports. And so there, there was so many things going on that the former director, he was like, you know, write incident reports. But yeah, there, I, I remember one particular, particular time, a, a staff. She was, uh, she kind of covered that. We called it the intake area. So that's where they would come in. And usually it's one staff up there in this whole area, monitoring all the cameras and doors. Uh, for the entire facility. And there's really nobody around them. And she was like, you know, she was like, this is the most creepy place I've ever worked.

• 1:09:24Speaker 05

  And, um, she would work late into the night. So she was a second shift staff. Yeah. And I remember, I don't think she necessarily quit. I, I, I think she was a, well, she did quit, but I don't think it was necessarily for that. I think it was a, you know, this is just not the job for me is the answer we got. Um, but she was, she was spooked. There was a lot of stuff. I remember the third shift supervisor telling me when I first started working there. He was like, um, yeah, you're going to hear a lot of crazy things in the building. You're going to hear them banging on the lockers when they walk down this hallway. You're going to hear, you know, and he was just going through this whole list of things. You know, and again, it was like one of those situations where like, you know, you just, you know, you just didn't mess with it.

• 1:10:10Speaker 05

  It kind of went away, but there would be times where.

• 1:10:15Speaker 05

  You know, things would move, doors would open. I remember one of the staff, he was working up in that end take care and he was like, hey, can you come up here and check this out? So I come up there and um, he was like, watch this. And so he unlocked the door and the door would slowly open up and it'd stay open. And the thing about this door was it had an automatic shut to it. So I go, what? No, this is crazy. So I go over there, I shut the door and there was like a little resistant. So you know, you start trying to debug, you go, okay, is it the, you know, the HVAC kick in, is there some kind of pressure going on? But there was, there was

• 1:10:57Speaker 05

  nothing. So, you know, that was like one of the examples. And it was almost, there was some areas where it was a kind of a, a poltergeist kind of thing, like it wouldn't toy with you, mess with you, move things, take things, um, in certain areas.

• 1:11:17Wes Germer?

  Yeah, like I said, I think I would have quit. I mean, I've talked to so many people that have this going on in their home and not everyone's in a position to leave, but if they could, they would. You know, it's something you're never gonna find and it's gonna sit and screw with you all night long while you're working. Uh, you know, I, I don't know why that stuff just kind of bothers me. But I really appreciate you sharing it and I appreciate you sharing the Sasquatch encounter. I always love talking to veterans and I've spoke to many over the years that have had encounters on military bases and that Fort Lewis is notorious for sightings. Uh, but thank you again, Chad, for coming on.

• 1:12:00Speaker 05

  I appreciate it, Wes, and I just want to let you know, you know, like I had told you, I've been exclusively listening to your, this podcast for two and a half months, just like educating myself and learning a lot. The people that you have on have really kind of enlightened me on like, you know, it makes it a little bit more comfortable to come forward and say, yep, this, this has happened. This was my experience, you know, and I can't say I'm assuming it was a Sasquatch. It had to be. I can't figure anything out. But, um, I just appreciate what you do and, um,

• 1:12:39Speaker 05

  You know, it's great. And to tell you the truth, I really, I don't know. I don't know if I ever really want to know what it was. I kind of love that mystery about it, you know, and learning what other people are dealing with. And my heart goes out, my prayers for those individuals that are struggling with those situations that are really that negative side of it. So I do appreciate you.

• 1:13:05Wes Germer?

  Thanks, brother. And I appreciate you listening and thank you again for your service. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected]. And if you get a chance, check out sasquatchchronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone.

• 1:13:29Speaker 06

  When your love's too low and you want it bad The lights on With roses and a hand up in the heart The lights on My wheels untied and I go alone The lights on Baby you should know that you're gone The lights on This is my home This is where I own Memories of you dear Untie your eyes Close at the sky I'll mesmerize Memories of you dear

• 1:14:12Speaker 06

  I saw a moon as a human and writer The lights on And it power grew wider The lights on So I put my eyes be a little wiser The lights on To the instant in the quiet turn The lights on This is my home This is where I own Memories of you dear Untie your eyes Close at the sky I'll mesmerize Memories of you dear

• 1:15:14Speaker 06

  Put the lights on, this is my home Close it down, memories of you dear Untie your mind, close up the sky I'll miss my ride, memories of you dear

• 1:16:20Speaker 06

  Say that you're still here in my mind And this smile you're leaving in my mind 'Cause I found the key to my heart

• 1:16:30Speaker 06

  So I won't keep dying in my mind And I'll make you stay in my mind And miss you for a while

• 1:16:41Speaker 06

  Say that you're still here in my mind And this smile you're leaving in my mind 'Cause I found the key to my heart

• 1:16:52Speaker 06

  You are the best in my mind And I'll make you stay in my mind And miss you for a while