Joel the Ripper: Joel Rifkin 1

During the 1990s, serial killer Joel Rifkin stalked the streets of New York City. Operating in the shadows, Rifkin targeted vulnerable sex workers and disposed of his victims' bodies with disturbing precision. But his addiction to killing soon spiraled out of control... making him even more dangerous than ever. Mind of a Serial Killer is a Crime House Original. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok @crimehouse for more true crime content.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Vanessa Richardson?

  Hi, everyone. Before today's episode, there's another show I want to tell you about. It's called What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Plus, Connor's infectious energy that'll make you realize history is the most fascinating thing on earth. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  This is Crime House.

• 0:42Vanessa Richardson?

  Too many kids go through the painful experience of being bullied, of being made to feel like they don't belong. It's understandable that wounds like this can linger into adulthood, creating a sense of deep alienation. Most of us are able to overcome those feelings, or at least confront them in a healthy way. But what happens when those wounds never heal? When they grow deeper and fester? How far would you go to finally regain power or control? In the case of Joel Rifkin, he went to the most extreme lengths possible. He

• 1:24Vanessa Richardson?

  found vulnerable people he could dominate and made sure he was the one in control.

• 1:43Vanessa Richardson?

  The human mind is fascinating. It controls how we think, how we feel, how we love, and how we hate. And sometimes, the mind drives us to do something truly unspeakable. This is Mind of a Serial Killer, a Crime House original. Every Monday, we'll be taking deep dives into the minds of history's most notorious serial killers and violent offenders. And If you're interested in more true crime stories from this week in history, check out Crime House the show. Every episode covers multiple cases unified by the same theme. So every week you get something a little different. At Crime House, we want to express our gratitude to you, our community,

• 2:28Vanessa Richardson?

  for making this possible. Please support us by rating, reviewing, and following Mind of a Serial Killer wherever you get your podcasts. And to enhance your Mind of a Serial Killer listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad free. And instead of having to wait for each episode of a two-part series, you'll get access to both at once, plus exciting bonus content. I'm Vanessa Richardson.

• 2:57Tristin Engels?

  And I'm Dr. Tristin Engels. As Vanessa takes you through our subject stories, I'll be helping her dive into these killers' minds as we try to understand how someone can do such horrible things.

• 3:09Vanessa Richardson?

  Before we get into the story, you should know it contains descriptions of sexual assault, dismemberment, and murder. Listener discretion is advised. This is the first of two episodes on serial killer Joel Rifkin, also known as Joel the Ripper. In the late 1980s and early 90s, Joel stalked the streets of New York City, preying on vulnerable sex workers. In total, he claimed at least 17 victims, the highest number in New York's history. In today's episode, we'll explore the trauma and alienation Joel experienced as a child, how those wounds festered into adulthood, and how it turned him into a merciless serial killer.

• 3:54Vanessa Richardson?

  Next time, we'll follow his insatiable addiction to violence, the conclusion of his grisly murder spree, and how the police finally caught up to him. And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a serial killer?

• 4:17Vanessa Richardson?

  Throughout his life, Joel Rifkin was always incredibly insecure. Even though he was smart and capable, he felt like he could never measure up to people's expectations. And those feelings stemmed from some of his earliest childhood moments. After Joel was born on January 20th, 1959, his birth parents, who were young and unmarried, put him up for adoption. Of course, he wasn't able to understand what was happening to him at the time. But his adoptive parents, Jean and Bernard Rifkin, treated Joel as if he were their own flesh and blood. Growing up in Long Island, New York, Joel was comfortable, safe, and loved.

• 5:01Vanessa Richardson?

  But being a Rifkin came with high expectations, particularly from his adoptive father. Bernard was a successful structural engineer, who was popular with friends and colleagues. And Joel didn't quite live up to that reputation. Joel was a naturally smart kid with a recorded IQ of 128, but he also struggled with an undiagnosed learning disability, possibly dyslexia. It impacted his grades, which seemed to embarrass Bernard. Even typical father-son activities, like playing catch in the yard, came with a lot of pressure. Joel said that Bernard, who had been a college athlete, wanted Joel to follow in his footsteps.

• 5:45Vanessa Richardson?

  But Joel admitted he had, quote, "as much chance of catching the ball with his face as with his hands."

• 5:53Tristin Engels?

  I'm not sure what age Joel was in this story when he had his intelligence quotient tested, because this varies. But generally, it does appear that Joel has an above-average IQ. However, someone can be highly intelligent and still have a learning disability. I don't know that a lot of people really grasp that. We tend to identify a possible learning disability when there's a discrepancy between a child's aptitude, which is their ability to learn new information, and their achievement, which is where their current level of accomplishment is. So Joel has the ability to learn new information, but there's something that's limiting his ability to advance to the level he's capable of. And that appears to be something his successful and intelligent, adoptive father is struggling

• 6:38Tristin Engels?

  with understanding himself. When you're able-bodied, the way that Bernard is, both intellectually and physically, it can be hard to understand and be compassionate, as well as patient with those who aren't.

• 6:52Vanessa Richardson?

  Dr. Ingalls, how can unrealistic expectations from a parent linger into adulthood? Of course, they don't turn everyone into a serial killer, but what's the long-term effects of feeling that familial pressure?

• 7:05Tristin Engels?

  Yeah, they can definitely linger and put undue stress on Joel, especially when you factor in the added complexity that these are his adoptive parents. There's an additional pressure to feel accepted and maintain their expectations because of that. This can make Joel feel more susceptible to performance anxiety, low self-esteem, and even confidence can be impaired. Not to mention, if he's not able to control the things he's being criticized for by his parents, then he's going to find ways to overcompensate for that. And I'm sure we're going to see that as you take us through his story.

• 7:42Vanessa Richardson?

  The pressures at home definitely seem to overwhelm Joel, and he didn't have it easy at school either. On top of being a bad student, his appearance made him a target for bullying in junior high. With his thick, wire-framed glasses and bad posture, Joel was nicknamed "The Turtle." And that was just the beginning of his suffering. When Joel got to high school, he tried to make some friends by joining the track team. It didn't work. His lack of athleticism earned him yet another embarrassing nickname: Lard Ass. With no friends to speak of, Joel spent his nights holed up alone in his room. And even though Joel had an adoptive sister and they got along, it doesn't seem like

• 8:25Vanessa Richardson?

  they were particularly close. Instead, Joel found comfort and escape by watching movies. And in 1972, when he was 13, one film in particular caught his attention. Sometime that year, Joel watched a horror movie called Frenzy. It's all about a serial killer who terrorizes the streets of London and strangles his victims with neckties. One scene in particular features the murder of a character, shown close up as she's sexually assaulted and strangled to death. Joel would later claim this movie was the inspiration behind his murder spree, but for the moment, he wasn't planning to hurt anyone. He was

• 9:08Vanessa Richardson?

  still trying to make friends. In another attempt to fit in, he joined the staff of his high school yearbook, but his camera was immediately stolen, and then he didn't get invited to the group's end-of-year party. But Joel wasn't just being shunned. He was being relentlessly viciously bullied. On one occasion, he even had a pair of underwear shoved into his mouth.

• 9:35Tristin Engels?

  There's a lot of literature on the long-term effects of bullying on children and teens, and the results have been pretty clear: that children who are bullied are at an elevated risk of developing depression, anxiety, anger, becoming socially withdrawn, or having poor social skills, which is largely due to the rejection of their peers. Mistrust in others, increased substance abuse, and obvious interpersonal deficits later in life. And when you add in the fact that Joel, from what you described, might even be experiencing parental bullying, because an argument can be made that his adoptive father's comments to him about his perceived weaknesses could be a form of bullying in itself.

• 10:18Tristin Engels?

  So when you have a child who doesn't feel safe at school or at home, and they're getting bullied in both environments, they'll begin looking for ways to self-soothe and regulate those emotions on their own. And typically, when there is no guidance in teaching them appropriate ways of coping, that's going to elevate their risk of developing maladaptive coping mechanisms. Now, that does not mean that children who are bullied grow up to become violent serial killers, or violent in general. In fact, statistically, it's the individuals who do the bullying that are more likely to become more prone to violence and criminal behaviors by adulthood.

• 11:02Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, considering everything Joel went through in high school, he must have been relieved when he graduated in 1977. Now 18, it was time for a fresh start, and Joel signed up for a local community college. But there was something else he wanted to do before he began: have sex. Joel had been interested in women for a while, but considering his social standing in high school, dating wasn't exactly an option. So he decided to try something else: paying for it. Before starting college, he drove into New York City and hired a sex worker. Finally, after years of being bullied, he was getting what he wanted.

• 11:45Vanessa Richardson?

  And even better, he was the one in control.

• 11:49Tristin Engels?

  This is a very pivotal moment for Joel and what's to come.

• 11:53Vanessa Richardson?

  He was able to let his fantasies run wild. Specifically, he liked to think about overpowering and strangling the women, just like in his favorite movie, Frenzy. He didn't act on that fantasy at that point, but just the thought of it gave him an emotional rush, and it's one he chased again and again from that moment on. After that first encounter, Joel started hiring sex workers so often, it became like an addiction. He spent so much time with them, he only finished a single course during his first year of community college.

• 12:28Tristin Engels?

  Yeah, whenever there are symptoms or a pattern of behavior that begins to impair someone's functioning socially, professionally, academically, or even legally, it warrants further evaluation. And what you're describing here is definitely something indicative of functional impairment related to his illegal sexual preoccupation and also his violent thoughts.

• 12:52Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, maybe he realized he needed a change of scenery because in the fall of 1978, Joel transferred to a state university in Brockport, New York, over 400 miles from Long Island. And it seemed to do him some good. While he was there, Joel started dating a fellow student. However, it wasn't enough to fill the void in his heart. Joel was still depressed and lonely, and it took a toll on the relationship. Eventually, things fizzled out. Joel took the breakup hard. A friend who knew him at the time said, quote, "He was in love with her. When that relationship ended, he talked about her for a very long time."

• 13:37Vanessa Richardson?

  Following that failed relationship, Joel tried to get his life back on track a few times. Over the course of several years, he was in and out of college. It never stuck, though. He couldn't break his addiction to hiring sex workers or the fantasy of choking the life out of them. Those thoughts became so overwhelming, Joel finally gave up on academics in 1984, when he was 25. He ended up back in Long Island with his parents, working odd jobs to support his secret addiction. Then in 1986, when Joel was 27, things got even worse. That year, Joel's adoptive father Bernard

• 14:20Vanessa Richardson?

  was diagnosed with prostate cancer. Despite their strained relationship, Joel still really cared about his dad, and the experience was extremely hard on him. Joel later said his father's struggle with the disease was "tough to watch." During this emotional time, Joel said his father would hug his mother and sister, but not him, because according to Joel, he was "still a disappointment." Even so, Joel remained by Bernard's side as his father's health deteriorated. By early 1987, Bernard couldn't bear the pain anymore. He overdosed on barbiturates and died.

• 15:04Vanessa Richardson?

  At the funeral, Joel gave a eulogy that reportedly brought the mourners to tears. In a poignant moment, he said, "Though my father did not give me life, he gave me love."

• 15:18Tristin Engels?

  It's clear that Joel, despite the strain of his relationship with his adoptive father, felt some kind of obligation to maintain loyalty and be appreciative of him despite all that emotional coldness. Joel might have felt or have been made to feel by Bernard that Bernard chose to raise Joel despite his perceived shortcomings, when his biological parents did not. Joel likely understands that it's possible for parents to relinquish their children and sees that his adoptive parents never did that, even if he did not live up to his adoptive father's expectations. That's the model of love that Joel has been taught.

• 15:59Tristin Engels?

  As long as they don't reject you or abandon you, then you should remain appreciative of them. When the reality is that there's two things that can be true here. They did choose to raise him despite their disappointment in him, and they can be emotionally abusive at the same time.

• 16:18Vanessa Richardson?

  Even though Joel was still grieving, Bernard's death seemed to take some weight off Joel's shoulders, and for a brief time after his father's passing, Joel's life took a turn for the better. He'd always enjoyed gardening, and in 1988, he started taking horticulture classes at the New York State College of Technology. For the first time, Joel managed to succeed at something. The 29-year-old got straight A's in his first year of the program and landed an internship at a local arboretum in early 1989. During his time there, he developed a crush on one of his fellow interns. Unfortunately for him, she didn't feel the same way.

• 17:01Vanessa Richardson?

  And with that, all the emotional progress Joel had made over the past year vanished. Joel felt ashamed, humiliated, and most of all, angry. And this time, he decided to do something about it.

• 17:24Vanessa Richardson?

  With the holidays coming up, my schedule gets pretty chaotic. Between work, travelling to see family, grocery runs and late night errands, my house spends a lot more time empty. A neighbour down the street actually had someone break in a few weeks ago. No joke. And that was the exact moment I decided I needed real protection for my kids and my home. I love SimpliSafe because it doesn't just react to a crime after the damage is done, it prevents it. SimpliSafe uses smart, AI-powered cameras that detect suspicious activity and alert a live, US-based agent right away. In under 30 seconds, that agent can actually speak live through the outdoor camera to warn an intruder off while instantly contacting 911 if necessary. Leaving home without that constant nagging worry is priceless. And now is the absolute best time to secure your space.

• 18:09Vanessa Richardson?

  I've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer my listeners their biggest savings of the year, 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/serialkillers. That's simplisafe.com/serialkillers. And when you order, write in serial killers and murderous minds at checkout. It tells them we sent you. And it really helps the show. SimpliSafe, ahead of crime in real time.

• 18:34Speaker 03

  I'm James Buckley.

• 18:35Speaker 04

  And I'm Joe Thomas.

• 18:36Speaker 03

  Joe, had to look at the script for our names.

• 18:40Speaker 03

  And on our weekly show, Joe and James Fact Up, we bring each other a fact that we think is fascinating. Our only rule... Go on. The more interesting it is, the more true it is.

• 18:51Speaker 04

  We dive into the weird and wonderful, like whether you could survive on nothing but beans, or if Shrek deserves a Nobel Prize for discovering the fourth dimension.

• 18:58Speaker 03

  You might learn something new, probably something useless, but definitely something interesting.

• 19:03Speaker 04

  Listen or watch Joe and James Fact Up every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts.

• 19:09Vanessa Richardson?

  Having timeless staples in your wardrobe that you can rely on for any occasion is an absolute game changer, and giving someone else that gift is even better. That's why Quince is my top choice for holiday shopping. I'm constantly wearing my Quince Cashmere Mock Neck Sweater in Burgundy. I wore it to a cozy holiday dinner party with friends, and it was so soft and stylish, I wish it had been gifted to me. Quince's signature cashmere sweaters start at an unbeatable $50, and their stunning 14-karat gold earrings and plush down outerwear are guaranteed crowd pleasers. Beyond clothing, Quince carries a massive range of options, including chef-grade cookware, buttery leather bags, and five-star luggage for all your upcoming trips.

• 19:52Vanessa Richardson?

  By partnering directly with ethical manufacturers and cutting out traditional middlemen, Quince offers luxury products at prices 50% to 80% less than high-end competitors. Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was serial killers and murderous minds. It's the best way to support the show.

• 20:27Vanessa Richardson?

  In early 1989, 30-year-old Joel Rifkin seemed to be finally making some progress in his career and his love life. He got an internship at an arboretum near his home on Long Island, and even tried to make a romantic connection with a fellow intern. But when she didn't reciprocate his feelings, he started to spiral. All of a sudden, the pain, resentment, and shame he'd felt throughout his life came rushing back. Joel couldn't handle it. He needed to take his frustrations out on something. On February 20th, 1989, Joel's mom was out of town.

• 21:07Vanessa Richardson?

  He used the opportunity to drive into New York City like he'd done countless times before. He picked up a sex worker who called herself Suzie and brought her back to his family's house on Long Island. After Joel and Suzie had sex, she asked if they could go out and get some drugs, but Joel had no intention of letting her leave. Instead, he grabbed a heavy metal artillery shell he'd gotten from a flea market and started beating her with it. After a few minutes, Joel was sure Suzie was dead. But when he tried to move her, he realized she was still breathing. That's when Joel finally acted on his twisted fantasy.

• 21:51Vanessa Richardson?

  He grabbed Suzie and strangled her to death. As the reality of what he'd done set in, Joel didn't feel any sense of remorse. He felt detached, cold. In the documentary Rifkin on Rifkin: Private Confessions of a Killer, he said, "At the time, there was no more thought than stomping on a bug or a cockroach."

• 22:16Tristin Engels?

  Let's talk about what precipitated this attack and why. After all this time of fantasizing about violence towards women and researching serial killers, does he act now? Joel's upbringing, as we've talked about, appears to have taught him that unless he meets certain standards, standards that were clearly set by his father, he won't be worthy of love or acceptance. So here we are. His father passes away, and he feels a sense of relief from the pressure he was under. And he can start to make progress at his own pace. And he begins to excel. He was getting straight A's. He got an internship.

• 22:57Tristin Engels?

  And if he feels that he can only be accepted and worthy if he is succeeding, then he's likely starting to feel that way now. And then he gets a crush on someone, an intern, and that crush is not reciprocated. So now, in Joel's mind, he's being rejected, despite finally being successful and worthy. And so that's counterproductive for him. It makes sense why he's now deciding to direct that anger outward onto his first victim.

• 23:26Vanessa Richardson?

  Dr. Engels, after so many years of fantasizing about this moment when he kills Susan, is it odd that he didn't feel more relief here?

• 23:36Tristin Engels?

  In some ways, it does seem atypical because serial killers often do feel a sense of relief and gratification when they're killing because it fulfills a deep psychological need for control, or power, or thrill. On the other hand, Joel was given up at birth, which is a trauma in itself, one of abandonment. And with the possible exception of one previous girlfriend, he's not really learned how to have warm and empathetic connections with others. And arguably, his entire life has been detached from others. So although this may seem atypical for serial killers in general, to not feel that relief or that gratification after the killing, the detachment that he is showing does seem

• 24:21Tristin Engels?

  to be typical for Joel in general.

• 24:25Vanessa Richardson?

  However Joel felt in that moment, he couldn't dwell on it for long because he had to figure out what to do with Suzie's body. He had some ideas, though, because he'd been reading up on serial killers in preparation for this moment. In the end, he decided to take the body down to the basement and dismember it. He even cut off his victim's fingertips and pulled out her teeth to make it harder to identify her. But just like the murder itself, the gruesome task didn't bother him. Later, Joel said he, quote, "looked at it as a job." After he was done, Joel placed Suzie's severed head in an empty paint can and disposed of it near a golf club in New Jersey.

• 25:11Vanessa Richardson?

  He dumped the rest of her remains into the East River. And even though some golfers did find Suzie's head a couple weeks later, the police were never able to identify her, just as he'd planned. There wasn't any evidence leading back to Joel either. He'd just gotten away with murder.

• 25:32Vanessa Richardson?

  But there were some variables he hadn't considered. When the news reported on the murder, they revealed that Suzie had been HIV positive. Joel was terrified. Although he wasn't infected, the experience probably made him think twice about what he was doing. But after about a year and a half, Joel couldn't wait any longer. He was ready to strike again. Sometime around late 1990, his mom headed out of town again, and Joel decided to look for another victim. Like before, Joel drove into the city and hired a sex worker. This time, he fixated on a blonde woman named Julie Blackbird.

• 26:16Vanessa Richardson?

  She reminded him of Marilyn Monroe. Like he'd done with his first victim, Joel brought Julie back to his house. After they had sex, he bludgeoned her, this time with a heavy table leg. Once she was too weak to fight back, Joel strangled her to death. Then, he dismembered her body in the basement. But before he did, he considered emulating one of his serial killer heroes, Ted Bundy, by having sex with her body. In the end, though, he claims he didn't go through with it. He thought it was too repulsive.

• 26:54Tristin Engels?

  There are a couple things here that are of significance. The fact that he identifies Ted Bundy as one of his "heroes" really speaks to what he aspires to be. A conventionally attractive man who is highly educated, unsuspecting, and someone who is able to gain the attention of women organically, not necessarily women he has to hire. So why is this important? It says a lot about his insecurities, and it also makes sense why. When given the opportunity to engage in necrophilia, he found that to be repulsive, over everything else he's already done. Ted Bundy engaged in those acts because he couldn't handle rejection.

• 27:36Tristin Engels?

  Whereas, I feel that with Joel, he wants to feel desired or accepted. And he cannot experience those feelings during an act of necrophilia. But he can experience those feelings when he hires sex workers, which makes sense as to why he chose to kill a sex worker and not the woman who rejected him. Because it's her job and she's willing to be intimate with him and willing to make him feel desirable and accepted.

• 28:07Vanessa Richardson?

  Whatever twisted moral compass Joel was following, he decided to be more careful about getting rid of Julie's body. He didn't want to risk having her remains discovered and linked back to him. This time, he put her body parts into a few buckets and a milk crate, filled the containers with cement, and dropped them into the East River. To this day, nobody has found Julie Blackbird's remains.

• 28:35Vanessa Richardson?

  And now that Joel had murdered two people with little issue, he was feeling more confident. On July 13, 1991, less than a year after he killed Julie Blackbird, Joel killed another sex worker, a woman named Barbara Jacobs. In what was now a familiar pattern, Joel brought Barbara back to the house in Long Island, then bludgeoned her with the same table leg he used to kill Julie Blackbird. Then he proceeded to strangle her to death. However, Joel was put off by the thought of dismembering another victim. Or maybe he just didn't want to go through the trouble. Either way, he simply wrapped Barbara's body in plastic, placed it in a cardboard box,

• 29:20Vanessa Richardson?

  then dropped it into the Hudson River.

• 29:25Vanessa Richardson?

  This change in plans was a critical mistake. Just a few hours later, the box with Barbara's body still in it washed back on shore and was discovered by firefighters doing a training exercise. Even then, Joel's carelessness didn't come back to bite him. Even though someone had clearly tried to dump Barbara's body, the coroner determined she died of a drug overdose. It's not clear if they didn't notice the impact wounds from the table leg or just didn't want to waste time and resources on a sex worker. But either way, the authorities didn't pursue it any further.

• 30:03Tristin Engels?

  Unfortunately, this is not really something new when it comes to the mishandling of cases involving sex workers.

• 30:10Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, it made Joel realize that if he chose a certain kind of victim, namely vulnerable anonymous women, he didn't need to worry about being so careful after all. A little less than two months later, on September 1, 1991, 32-year-old Joel headed to his familiar hunting ground in Manhattan, where he picked up 22-year-old sex worker, Mary Ellen DeLuca. But Joel didn't take Mary Ellen back to his house, like with his first three victims. Instead, he drove her around the city until sunrise, stopping to score drugs for her along the way. It's not clear if he was trying to make it look like a drug overdose, or if he was

• 30:54Vanessa Richardson?

  just trying to make Mary Ellen more intoxicated and vulnerable. Regardless, they eventually ended up at a cheap motel, where Joel strangled her to death.

• 31:05Tristin Engels?

  It actually wouldn't surprise me if either of those were true, but more importantly, it wouldn't surprise me if he wanted to make it look like a drug overdose, since that was the ruling with Barbara. And Joel is clearly learning as he goes how to best protect himself and become more sophisticated. Not to mention, having her under the influence, like he said, makes her more vulnerable for what he plans to do to her next.

• 31:29Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, Joel hadn't thought the whole thing through. The sun was up, and he was in the middle of New York City with a dead body on his hands. Thinking fast, Joel took more inspiration from his favorite movie, Frenzy. He remembered that in one scene, the killer hides one of his victims in a heavy clothing trunk. So Joel went out and bought a similar trunk, lugged it back to the motel room, and placed Mary Ellen's body inside. Then, he carried it out to his car and dropped it at a rest stop in plain sight. It took a month for anyone to bother looking at it.

• 32:09Vanessa Richardson?

  By that point, Mary Ellen's remains were so badly decomposed, she couldn't be identified. She was buried as a Jane Doe. But the experience emboldened Joel even further. At this point, he must have felt invincible.

• 32:26Tristin Engels?

  Yeah, this definitely is emboldening him. But he's also likely getting a thrill from it. Thrill-seeking and a need for stimulation is a big trait that is seen in serial killers. I think part of his thrill-seeking is evident in the research and the planning phases of his killings, at least that's how it seems. It's something that he's been doing since he was a child and continues to do after each killing. He continues to research how to do it differently. He finds new ways to kill, new tactics to use. But his methods are remaining the same, in that he continues to target vulnerable sex workers.

• 33:07Vanessa Richardson?

  Does it give them a sense of invincibility? Do they feel like they're able to kill with greater frequency? Or is that drive so innate in them that it wouldn't matter if they're being investigated or not?

• 33:19Tristin Engels?

  I think for Joel, as I touched on briefly, his thrill is also motivated by the fact that he feels he is doing these killings, quote, "right" in his eyes. It's giving him a sense of being successful. And as we have established, living up to the expectations of his father and excelling at literally anything was a core value in the home. So perhaps to Joel, he finally feels he has met that in this very depraved way. Since he's getting psychological gratification as a result and continues to remain undetected, we can definitely expect to see an increase in frequency.

• 33:57Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, once Joel realized nobody was coming after him, he certainly wasn't trying to space out his attacks anymore. Later in September 1991, just a few weeks after killing Mary Ellen DeLuca, Joel murdered 31-year-old sex worker Yun Lee. He put her in the same kind of trunk he'd used with Mary Ellen, but this time, he went back to his original strategy and dropped it in the East River. After that, 32-year-old Joel took a couple months off, but not because he was worried about being caught. Murder had become so routine to him and had lost that special edge. He wasn't really even planning them out anymore.

• 34:42Vanessa Richardson?

  Instead, he later described his thinking as, "If it happens, it happens." Well, just before Christmas 1991, it happened again. Joel picked up a sex worker in Manhattan whose name he couldn't recall. This time, he didn't even bother going somewhere to kill her. He just did it right in his car.

• 35:04Tristin Engels?

  This is a deviation from his normal methods because there's no second location and no sexual intercourse, at least from what you've shared. And it happens after a few months of resisting.

• 35:15Vanessa Richardson?

  With her body in the passenger seat, he drove out to a workspace he'd rented that year to start a landscaping business. He left the body there, then went to pick up a 55-gallon drum from a recycling plant where he used to work. He went back to fetch the body, then headed for an old junkyard along the East River. But the area wasn't as private as Joel thought. As he headed back to his car, there were two police officers waiting for him. And they were very interested in what Joel was up to.

• 35:55Speaker 05

  Early morning on a Manhattan sidewalk, a shooting caught on surveillance video. It was an assassination-style killing? And everybody saw it. Now, as Luigi Mangione prepares to stand trial for the murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson, which he denies, a new podcast series from ABC Audio and 2020 goes inside this captivating case. I'm ABC News legal analyst Brian Buckmeyer. Listen to Burden of Proof: Luigi Mangione wherever you get your podcasts.

• 36:31Vanessa Richardson?

  Around Christmas time in 1991, 32-year-old Joel Rifkin claimed his sixth victim. After killing her, he went to a riverside junkyard to get rid of the body. But on his way back to his car, Joel was stopped by a pair of police officers. Now, it's not clear if the officers saw him dropping the barrel in the river, but they did think he was at the junkyard to illegally dump some trash. Joel managed to talk his way out of it. He said he was actually there to look for junk, not to throw it away. The officers took him at his word. They let Joel leave with nothing more than a warning.

• 37:13Vanessa Richardson?

  They had no idea they'd just let a serial killer slip through their fingers.

• 37:19Tristin Engels?

  Joel definitely exhibited quick thinking here and very little reaction, given what he had just did and then encountering the police. So why is that? There are a couple reasons here. Joel has been somewhat habituated to violence since he was a child, starting with his interest in the movie Frenzy and his research into serial killers. Additionally, he has engaged in several depraved acts that he has expressed very little emotional reaction to. So his emotional range is very limited, as it is. There are also some potential biological causes for this. Individuals with psychopathy or sociopathy have reduced connections in the brain, particularly in the prefrontal cortex and the amygdala.

• 38:03Tristin Engels?

  The amygdala is where the fight-or-flight response is, which is where anxiety, fear, and empathy are. So it's more likely than not that it's a combination of psychological and biological causes for why he's quick-thinking, but also not very reactionary. I think most of us, when we walk back to our car and see police there, are going to have a bit of an anxiety reaction to that. Joel is clearly not capable of that.

• 38:31Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, in some way, the close calls seemed to have energized Joel because he barely waited before killing again. Just a few days later, on December 26, 1991, Joel murdered 28-year-old Lorraine Orvieto. He didn't even bother going to the city this time. He picked her up close to his family's house on Long Island. Once he had Lorraine in his car, Joel killed her in an empty school parking lot. Afterwards, Joel put her body in another large plastic drum. Then he drove out to Brooklyn and dumped the container into Coney Island Creek. By the end of 1991, Joel had murdered at least seven women.

• 39:16Vanessa Richardson?

  And he wasn't going to stop anytime soon.

• 39:20Tristin Engels?

  So this is an example of habituation that I was referring to earlier. Habituation is when there is a decrease in the thrill response because of the repeated stimulus. So he'd had four years of the same murder, right? So after four years of having the same repeat of a stimuli, he is getting a decrease in his reaction or his response to it. And what drives him is that thrill. So there's likely to be an increase in thrill-seeking behaviors as a result of the fact that there's now some level of tolerance to his current routine. And it's similar to an addiction in that way, only there's no real physiological dependency

• 40:02Tristin Engels?

  like you would expect to see if it was an addiction to a substance. But what we are seeing is an increase in frequency and carelessness as a result of his need for more stimulation.

• 40:16Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, it certainly seemed like Joel's need to kill was becoming routine at this point. On January 2, 1992, just about a week after he murdered Lorraine Orvieto, Joel hired a 39-year-old sex worker named Mary Ann Holloman. He picked her up and took her to the same parking lot where he'd taken his fourth victim, Yan Li, just a few months before. And he killed her in the same way he'd killed Lorraine Orvieto just a week prior: strangulation during oral sex. Then he drove the body back to Long Island, put it in one of his 55-gallon drums, and dumped it in a nearby creek. At this point, as you said, the novelty of killing had worn off so much for Joel

• 41:01Vanessa Richardson?

  that he didn't even remember his next victim's name, or even when he killed her. Not much is known about this woman, so she's only referred to as Victim Number Nine. Later on, Joel could only recall that she had tattoos and fought fiercely for her life. But when her body was discovered floating along a creek in Brooklyn on May 13, 1992, the authorities didn't even suspect murder, even though she'd been stuffed in a barrel. Just like several of Joel's other victims, the authorities found drugs in her system. They thought maybe she was a drug mule who'd died of an overdose, and didn't look into it any further.

• 41:46Vanessa Richardson?

  After killing his ninth victim, Joel murdered three more women by mid-July of 1992: Iris Sanchez, Anna Lopez, and Violet O'Neill. Although they all played out a bit differently, like at various times of day, with different ways of disposing of the bodies, the method was always the same: strangulation. If Joel was looking for a new rush, what happened next definitely accomplished that. On July 9, 1992, the police received an anonymous tip that there was a dead body on the banks of Coney Island Creek. It was the remains of Joel's eighth victim, Mary Ann Holloman.

• 42:31Vanessa Richardson?

  By coincidence, the police also found the remains of Joel's seventh victim, Lorraine Ovieto, two days later. The similarities were obvious. Both were sex workers. Both had been stuffed into oil drums. Both had clearly died from strangulation wounds. Finally, the police realized they were dealing with murder cases, not overdoses, and that they might have a serial killer on their hands.

• 43:01Tristin Engels?

  It's interesting that they're able to identify that they died from strangulation wounds, because generally speaking, strangulation doesn't really leave any outward signs. It's like a silent killer in that way. Generally, what they find is that there are signs of strangulation internally versus externally. But either way, this really speaks to Joel's rage, because that's really what drives that kind of killing.

• 43:31Vanessa Richardson?

  For the moment, these were the only cases being linked to the same person, and nobody suspected Joel was the culprit. Even so, Joel decided to lay low for a bit. He didn't kill again for the rest of the summer, but by the fall, he was ready to strike again. Tragically, we don't know a lot about many of Joel's victims, but we do know a bit more about the next woman he attacked, 32-year-old Mary Catherine Williams. Back in high school, Mary Catherine was homecoming queen and head cheerleader. She was the kind of pretty, popular, all-American girl Joel never had a chance with as a teenager. But as an adult, her life took a turn for the worse.

• 44:15Vanessa Richardson?

  She moved to New York to try to break into acting, but things didn't work out. Mary Catherine ended up down on her luck, separated from her husband, and addicted to crack cocaine. She eventually turned to sex work, which is how she crossed paths with Joel Rifkin. He hired her on a couple of occasions, and everything had gone fine. So when he hired her again on October 2, 1992, Mary Catherine didn't think anything was amiss. Joel bought her some drugs, and she trusted him enough to fall asleep in his car. And that's when he attacked. Like all his other victims, Joel strangled Mary Catherine to death.

• 45:00Vanessa Richardson?

  After the long break between murders, it seems like Joel couldn't help himself any longer. After killing Mary Catherine, he only waited about a month and a half before seeking out his 14th victim, 23-year-old Jenny Soto. On November 16, 1992, Joel picked Jenny up in Manhattan, near the Williamsburg Bridge. After having sex with her in his pickup truck, Joel began to strangle her. But Jenny fought back, hard. The struggle was so intense, she broke every single one of her false nails and left deep scratches all over Joel's body

• 45:44Vanessa Richardson?

  before he eventually overpowered her. The experience left Joel feeling shaken up. Plenty of his victims had resisted him before, but Jenny was the first to leave a mark. Now, he didn't just have to figure out how to get rid of her body, he had to figure out how to explain those scratches, too. He knew that in order to avoid suspicion, he had to take a longer break from killing. But like many people who suffer from addiction, Joel couldn't contain himself. And when he went in search for his next fix, it was deadlier than ever.

• 46:35Vanessa Richardson?

  Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back next time as we discuss Joel Rifkin's last victims and the unlikely event that led to the end of his rampage.

• 46:46Tristin Engels?

  Mind of a Serial Killer is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on social media at @CrimeHouse on Instagram. And don't forget to rate, review, and follow Mind of a Serial Killer wherever you get your podcasts.

• 47:08Vanessa Richardson?

  And to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Mind of a Serial Killer ad-free, along with early access to each thrilling two-part series and exciting bonus content. We'll be back next Monday.

• 47:28Vanessa Richardson?

  Mind of a Serial Killer is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and Dr. Tristin Engels, and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Mind of a Serial Killer team: Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Laurie Marinelli, Stacy Waringer, Sarah Carroll, Nani Okulagu, Sarah Tardif, and Carrie Murphy. Of the many sources we used when researching this episode, the one we found the most credible and helpful was Joel Rifkin: The Horrifying and True Story of Joel the Ripper by Jack Rosewood and Rebecca Lo. Thank you for listening.

• 48:13Vanessa Richardson?

  If you're looking for your next podcast, check out What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.