#2242 - Bert Sorin

Bert Sorin is the president and co-founder of Sorin Exercise Equipment, as well as an athlete, hunter, and advocate for the health and wellness of veterans. www.sorinex.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience. Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:14Joe Rogan?

  Good to see you, brother. What's going on, man?

• 0:16Speaker 02

  Good to see you, man.

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  Thank you very much for that extraordinary piece of athletic equipment you brought to the gym.

• 0:21Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 0:22Joe Rogan?

  Is there a photo of that, so we can show people what it looks like?

• 0:24Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, it should be on the website, X Factor.

• 0:27Joe Rogan?

  And what is it called?

• 0:29Speaker 02

  Uh, it's called The X Factor.

• 0:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's called The X Factor. What is the website?

• 0:31Speaker 02

  sorinex.com.

• 0:32Joe Rogan?

  Go to sorinex.com, check out the X Factor.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Sorry, it's actually... Pull it up, Jamie.

• 0:37Joe Rogan?

  Pull it up, Jamie. Isn't that nice to say that?

• 0:38Speaker 02

  Shash, man, I'm telling you. It's, uh, it's big.

• 0:40Joe Rogan?

  So this is the machine?

• 0:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's actually Judge who was here a minute ago.

• 0:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a brilliant machine, man. The idea that you could push and pull rotational rotational power machine. It really is a genius idea, man.

• 0:54Speaker 02

  Thanks, boy.

• 0:55Joe Rogan?

  And for things like striking sports, that's huge. Like, the ability to push and pull at the same time while stabilizing your core, I mean, that is undoubtedly gonna help people, like, you're definitely gonna be able to deliver more power in strikes.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  Right, because you, you take the ground force and then be able to put it through, obviously, with the core, that's all three planes of motion, all obviously go through your core, and then puts it into your, either your feet or your, uh, your arms.

• 1:27Joe Rogan?

  It's just so unusual that you can do something like that. I mean, I guess you kinda can do something like that with cables, with the cable machine, but that seems better.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, because you have a little bit of a balance component as well, but, but you're right, like, you're blocking, let's say you're a right hand, you're blocking on that left leg, you're stabilizing out the right hamstring and hip. But, yeah, especially when you get that little extra extension, I call it the riblets right there, your obliques, it just locks everything in. So I'm interested to see what you come up with.

• 1:52Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty dope. And you were telling me that this was originally, uh, like, you, you came up with this idea from an older machine that's not around yet?

• 2:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, so we've, we, you know, I've been in this industry a long time, and as well as you have, but it's kinda taken a remastered series where we're taking all, like, the cool stuff. That was, could have been our designs, but it could have been just old designs or just like kind of lost to the ages. And you're like, hey, that was a cool piece, but it sucked because you had to load it weird or it was like, maybe it wasn't as safe as it could have been. And so it's like, let's, let's break the whole thing apart, figure out what was good about it. And then that was like the eighth iteration. We just kept playing with it. And then it was like, when you realize the double axis is what made the user experience cool. Then it was like, okay, this is badass. And you know, I sent that video to you and, and then a couple of colleges have already bought them. And then

• 2:44Speaker 02

  Ryan Crowe's are the world champion and record holder in the shop put was like, yeah, like this is all rotational power. How do we turn that on?

• 2:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, it's so cool today because there's so much social media and there's so much, so many videos and YouTube videos of people using equipment like 15, 20 years ago, you had to go to a gym and go, oh, what is that? Oh, that's cool. Where'd you get that? How's that work?

• 3:08Speaker 02

  The big guy in the gym, you had to like, hey, what's the deal? You and I grew up in the same era where we're going to gyms all the time and there's a bunch of quacks telling you to do stuff.

• 3:17Joe Rogan?

  Always. Yeah. And then there's a bro scientist.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  Total bro scientist. Yeah. And then, and then you just like, hey, if that guy's really good at something, you know? Back in the day, I would, after I compete, probably much like you, after I compete, I would get whoever was better than me and I would offer to take them out to dinner. And I would just go, hey, like I'd feed them beers until they basically told me how they beat me.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  I just like, well, how much are you cleaning or what are you doing? Then I would pick up some little idiosyncrasy of training. They're like, oh, we would do this contrast. And I'm like, what's that? And I would just keep digging and digging and digging. I'd go back and figure it out.

• 3:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, I remember when I was competing, they would tell you to not lift weights, which is so hilarious.

• 4:02Joe Rogan?

  They used to say that. They used to say it will slow you down and you'll become tight.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:06Joe Rogan?

  And I remember thinking like, why don't you just stretch if you're tight?

• 4:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. So more horsepower makes the car slower?

• 4:13Joe Rogan?

  It didn't make any sense to me. It's like they thought that the only exercise you should do is martial arts itself. Just hit the bag.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:21Joe Rogan?

  You know, train.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  Now, when do you, when do you think that? Well, you got, you know, Bruce Lee would do, I mean, he did some exercise.

• 4:29Joe Rogan?

  Did a lot of isometrics.

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. And he had some lifting, but it was always pretty light. But what would you say was the when that changed?

• 4:37Joe Rogan?

  I think it was Evander Holyfield. I think it was Mackie Shilstone trained Evander Holyfield when he went up to heavyweight. And I I remember myself at the time, so this was in the nineties, I remember thinking, what is he doing? He's lifting weights. He's gonna fuck himself up. Don't doesn't he know that all these coaches have already figured it out?

• 4:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 4:58Joe Rogan?

  And then all of a sudden Evander got all these traps.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  Dude, he was trapped and dealt it out.

• 5:03Joe Rogan?

  He got jacked and he became a legitimate heavyweight. Also, pretty sure there were some Mexican supplements involved.

• 5:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, he might have gone across the border.

• 5:12Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I'm not. I think it's a strong possibility. I think it's a strong possibility that there was some help. Because also, like, you never heard of anybody tested positive for steroids back then.

• 5:24Speaker 02

  No.

• 5:25Joe Rogan?

  And I know for a fact that some of those guys were on steroids.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  I would not disagree.

• 5:31Joe Rogan?

  I know people who know people and I know I would fucking put it all on black.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, because up until ninety one, steroids weren't even illegal as a controlled substance.

• 5:44Joe Rogan?

  Do you know who caused it to be illegal? Joe Biden.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  No shit.

• 5:48Joe Rogan?

  Yep, that motherfucker. It was all him. Yeah.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  You know.

• 5:52Joe Rogan?

  Derek from More Plates More Dates was telling us about it the other day. I'm like, that motherfucker, he did it.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  That should be a loan a reason.

• 6:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, I guess the idea is that people could abuse it, right?

• 6:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 6:05Joe Rogan?

  Here's the deal, folks. You can abuse almost everything.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 6:09Joe Rogan?

  This is my argument against online gambling. You know, there's a lot of people that think online gambling should be banned because so many people are losing money on online gambling. Shut the fuck up. Do you know how easy it is to not online gamble? It's so easy. You know how easy it is? I've never online gambled.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  It makes two of us.

• 6:26Joe Rogan?

  That's how easy it is to not online gambling.

• 6:28Speaker 02

  I'd probably forget my password to get into the thing, but yeah.

• 6:31Joe Rogan?

  Like, I'm not discounting the fact that gambling is addictive. I personally know gambling addicts. One of my best friends, Dana White, is a fucking gambling addict. He happens to be insanely wealthy, so he can get away with it. But

• 6:45Speaker 02

  That helps.

• 6:45Joe Rogan?

  I I've I grew up in pool halls. I know gambling addicts. I get it. I'm not one.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:51Joe Rogan?

  So it's possible to like fucking have some self-control and discipline and willpower.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  The weird thing, I've never done crack either.

• 6:58Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  It's strange.

• 7:00Joe Rogan?

  Crack is everywhere and it's a scourge of humanity. I've never done crack.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  You know, it's really weird. I'm so, I've never even seen crack.

• 7:08Joe Rogan?

  I've seen it.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I I

• 7:09Joe Rogan?

  It's weird.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  I saw cocaine once in my entire life, which is wild, based on

• 7:14Joe Rogan?

  That is pretty wild.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  I know a lot of people and it's like, yeah, like, did they just think I would just say no to that? Cause I grew up in the eighties, just say no generation, but

• 7:20Joe Rogan?

  I haven't seen

• 7:21Speaker 02

  I didn't think it was like a real thing.

• 7:22Joe Rogan?

  Since I was in high school. I've never, I

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Really?

• 7:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is kind of crazy, because I know so many people who do coke.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:29Joe Rogan?

  Um, but I was at a party in high school the last time I saw someone doing coke.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  No way.

• 7:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  In your world.

• 7:34Joe Rogan?

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• 8:14Joe Rogan?

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• 8:54Joe Rogan?

  Get a free immunity bundle, including a bottle of omega-3 fish oil and vitamin D tossed in with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro, backed by a 90-day money-back guarantee. That's drinkag1.com/joe. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know because I use it. That's right, joe rogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links.

• 9:38Joe Rogan?

  Head to Squarespace.com/rogan for a free trial, and when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGAN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Yeah. Well, I don't, I don't do anything like that. I don't ever fuck around. I've never done coke. I never even thought about doing it. Yeah. Never had the desire because I was around people that were abusing it when I was in high school. So I was like, okay. Do you think that's because you're such like a strong personality and like kind of role model that people are like, hey, Joe's not into that. Like, keep it away from him? Um. You think they're like respectful of that and just kind of know the deal? They just know I don't want it. Yeah.

• 10:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I'm just not interested in anything that gives me more confidence. I'm not interested in that. I got plenty of that. I like humility. I'm looking for humility. I don't like confidence boosters. I don't like anything that gives you like a ridiculous sense of like your abilities. Like, I'm not, I'd rather be humble. I'm not interested in. I mean, delusion is a, is a strong, is a strong suit. Sometimes. Yeah, no, and it could get you bound up too. Definitely.

• 10:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:46Joe Rogan?

  I think it gets you pretty far and then your fucking wheels come off.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  Speed bubbles. It's like when you're skateboarding when you're a kid.

• 10:54Joe Rogan?

  If you ever see a guy on a motorcycle and you see when they do that, you're like, no.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  It's like you had Josh Brolin on the other day. That was like what he did in Goonies. Remember he had the little bike?

• 11:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's right.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  He was talking about the motorcycle. All I could think about is my head is him flying off the cliff in Goonies.

• 11:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's hilarious. I forgot he was in Goonies.

• 11:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:11Joe Rogan?

  I should have brought that up. We could have hold, we should have.

• 11:13Speaker 03

  I wanted to bring it up so bad.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  I was on the plane.

• 11:16Speaker 03

  I was biting my tongue the whole time.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  I was riding a plane. I was like, all I could see is that cat in sweatpants with his shorts on top of his sweatpants, riding a tricycle or whatever down this hill. Cause.

• 11:25Joe Rogan?

  He's one of the rare guys that was like a child actor that turned out really awesome.

• 11:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a small club.

• 11:33Joe Rogan?

  That's a fucking super small club.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:36Joe Rogan?

  Cause everybody that I know, and I know a few people personally that were famous as a young person, they're out of their fucking mind. They're just, they're, they're like, you know what I'd say? It's like, look at him.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  Hey, I have a good memory. Look at me.

• 11:49Joe Rogan?

  How old was he back then?

• 11:50Speaker 03

  Uh, he's probably seventeen or eighteen.

• 11:52Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy. Well, he's two years younger than me. Eighty-five, uh, in eighty-five, I was eighteen. So he's probably like.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  Well, the eighties not so awesome.

• 12:03Joe Rogan?

  Eighties were pretty cool.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  Eighties.

• 12:05Joe Rogan?

  Except everybody's worried that Russia was gonna blow us up.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  The true story.

• 12:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  True story. Yeah. I remember eighty-five, I believe it was eighty-five, going to, uh, I know, obviously we're both into archery. So eighty-five, Rambo First Blood Part Two came out. Pops took me to the movie theater. He and I saw it and we went straight from there to the archery shop. I got my first bow that day.

• 12:25Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 12:25Speaker 02

  I still have it.

• 12:26Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's awesome. I still have some of the same arrows.

• 12:29Joe Rogan?

  No shit?

• 12:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I strangely don't lose things. But yeah, I remember in the backyard shooting, cause like he kinda half taught me and then I was in the backyard zinging arrows and thinking like, if I had explosive tips, like how badass would this be?

• 12:41Joe Rogan?

  I went to, uh, Lanai and, uh, you know, they have, uh, the pineapple brothers as that archery and I brought my whole family. And then, um, they also have this area where you can go and you can like shoot ski and you. Drive like four, four wheelers up in the mountains and then they had like traditional archery like bows and arrows. And I was like, oh, let me try this. I don't know how to fucking aim. I'm terrible at it. I was like, I'm a good archer. I should be good at this.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  I thought.

• 13:10Joe Rogan?

  I could barely hit the fucking target from 20 yards away.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  It's like the science and the art, two different things.

• 13:16Joe Rogan?

  They're totally, totally different.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. I've always said like the guys that are traditional hunters, you know, trad guys, they're either weirdos or they're absolute killers.

• 13:25Joe Rogan?

  Right. It's like Aaron Snyder type dudes.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:27Joe Rogan?

  Who are so good at compound archery, they get tired of it.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. Or they're weird guys that smell like sausage and live in the mom's basement. And they're like, you're like, I, yeah, I know you do that, but you probably go to like ren fairs and stuff too. So I'm not sure what's the deal with.

• 13:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, at archery country, uh, you know, the local, uh, archery shop here in town, whenever I get a new bow or I get a new sight and I have to sight it in. We go to their, they have an indoor range and a lot of times in the indoor range, there's these dorks, sorry folks, dorks with recurves. And they're fucking, they're at 20 yards. They're spread. It's like my arm length. Barely hitting the target. Don't do that. This is stupid.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  You don't, you don't shoot like a, like a cardinal direction. I'm shooting east today.

• 14:16Joe Rogan?

  I, when they get good, like I've seen Snyder, like.

• 14:19Speaker 02

  He's such a badass.

• 14:20Joe Rogan?

  At 40 that are like the size of a silver dollar, but most people struggle pretty hardcore. But they say also that if you do want to hunt with it, you have to practice every day because it's almost like throwing a ball. Like, you know, if you're throwing a ball, you know how much the ball weighs because you've thrown it a bunch of times and you have like this muscle memory. That if I throw that hard at 20 yards, I'm going to hit that thing.

• 14:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's like a quarterback. Like quarterbacks, I know a couple of my buddies were college quarterbacks. They're all good trad archers. Cause they kind of like have that hand eye spatial. They know the curve. Yeah, but you gotta be on that. My buddy got into it, Brandon Lilly, uh, power lifter. He got into it and he, all he hunted with for a couple of years was trad and that, that cat went to like Argentina and Africa, just nuts in a sack with, he's like, no, I'm going to trad bow. I'm like.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  Okay, man.

• 15:12Joe Rogan?

  I'm always like, do you hate accuracy?

• 15:14Speaker 02

  No, he got it done, but holy cow, like.

• 15:17Joe Rogan?

  I know, but there's something about dialing it into like forty seven yards. Drawing back and centering your pin and just watching that shot break and watch that arrow go exactly where you want it to go. And swat and hit those ribs.

• 15:34Speaker 02

  Just the dopamine button of all time.

• 15:37Joe Rogan?

  It's the greatest.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  It is. It does. Can you see the arrow? Does it slow down when you shoot at animals like it does for me? It looks like there's no way this arrow is ever gonna get to. It's like everything in my brain. It's like that book, The Rise of Superman, when you go in a flow state and like everything speeds up in your brain. So actually, the pers- uh, would be the perception all lengthens out. They say your brain actually starts firing three times faster, the little pictures. So that's why it slows down. This morning, I watched that arrow just right-handed turn. I'm like, that deer's gonna move. And it was only twenty seven yards, but I'm watching.

• 16:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's interesting.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  But when I'm shooting targets, I'm just like, nah, whatever.

• 16:19Joe Rogan?

  I don't seem to think that, no.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  Really?

• 16:22Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 16:23Speaker 02

  I always think it takes forever to get to the animal.

• 16:26Joe Rogan?

  No. Um, I'm trying to think, when do things slow down for me? No.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  Jiu-Jitsu?

• 16:34Joe Rogan?

  No. Jiu-Jitsu just, when you're really in a good state, it's just almost like you're not thinking. It's like all of a sudden you have an arm bar. It's like.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  So it is a flow state?

• 16:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a complete flow state. But it's a flow state that's established after, you know, thousands of hours of drilling. And that's the most important thing in Jiu-Jitsu, really, is drilling. Everybody loves to roll because it's so fun, you know, because it's like you're playing a video game. You're like trying to kill each other. But the really important thing is drilling and drilling with like a certain amount of rigor, like a certain amount of speed and intensity. You know, you're not trying to hurt each other, but you're drilling with like intention so that your body is. is completely accustomed to these movements like your your body recognizes these movements and like

• 17:28Joe Rogan?

  you slap that elbow grab that armpit get that arm drag and you get the choke it's almost like it happens before you even know it's happening because your brain is so just it's just wired in there your your your your whole nervous system knows exactly what to do

• 17:47Speaker 02

  it's like a cascading effect like if then kind of deal now is that super slow drilling and then you just go to speed

• 17:54Joe Rogan?

  no no I think the correct way to drill is you drill with a little resistance from your partner like you don't want to put your partner to go limp on you sure but just a slight amount of like you have good partners a slight amount of resistance but then go through those motions with like a little bit of speed but not not like full blast sure but the whole idea is just get those numbers in bam bam bam Eddie Bravo is the best uh explanation for this he says you know when you tie your shoe you don't think about tying your shoe you just go bing and your shoe just ties

• 18:28Speaker 02

  yep

• 18:29Joe Rogan?

  right cuz you tie your shoes every fucking day you know exactly how to tie your shoes once you learn how to tie your shoes it's bing he goes that's what a jujitsu move is it's like it just gets in there and you don't sometimes you don't know what's happening until it's happened like all of a sudden you have a triangle like whoa like shit

• 18:45Speaker 02

  yeah that was helpful

• 18:46Joe Rogan?

  yeah it's just it's just you've done it so many times that when someone over extends or when someone gives up their neck or it's just cinches up it's just one of those things where your whole nervous system is just pre-programmed to these very specific movements

• 19:02Speaker 02

  yeah so you've taken all these little closed skills which are replicatable and then put them in open format where like the if then scenario like the flow chart just goes go go go go no go

• 19:12Joe Rogan?

  and the best guys are the guys that drill constantly and then also study and take notes like like Gordon Ryan that's his belt up there

• 19:22Speaker 02

  oh that's dope

• 19:23Joe Rogan?

  Gordon trains 365 days a year with 365 days a year and

• 19:30Joe Rogan?

  Many days off, he doesn't, and he trains all fucking day long. So if you wanna beat him, good luck. Cause you have to catch those numbers. You have to bypass those numbers somehow. It's not like he's not talented, it's not like he's not intelligent, it's not like he's not physically strong. So he's got all those attributes already. And then you have this insane work ethic along with dedication to technique.

• 19:54Speaker 02

  Yes, and you'd have years or decades to catch up.

• 19:58Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  And you just can't.

• 19:59Joe Rogan?

  And so there's too many guys in jujitsu that were just like big muscle heads. That would just like muscle a move and just give a lot of grunt. And you're never gonna beat a technique guy who's just as strong as you.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  Right.

• 20:13Joe Rogan?

  If.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  That uses less percentage of their power and everything to get the same job done.

• 20:17Joe Rogan?

  Also knows exactly where to be. Like you don't, you might not know exactly where to be because you've gotten away with a lot of stuff because you're big. You know, because you're big and you're strong and you've pushed through stuff.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 20:27Joe Rogan?

  Like big guys on their back. Like there's a lot of big guys, they get on their back and they become turtles. They, they don't know what to do. Cause they, they never get put on their back. Cause if they're training, if you're a guy who's 250 pounds and you're in a normal jujitsu gym. What are the odds of the 250 pound guy there? Most guys are 190, 200, maybe there's a 210.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  Right.

• 20:48Joe Rogan?

  There's not a lot of really big guys.

• 20:50Speaker 02

  63, 250, this ain't happening.

• 20:51Joe Rogan?

  It's rare, it's rare. So you usually can push these guys onto their back and that's easier to do. So you probably do that more often and you like smashing people, so you smash all these people. But the problem is then you never develop a bottom game. You never develop a guard, you never develop ability to get out from under a big guy. And do it technically, you know, get that under hook, like, you know, go work for a deep half, like. Figure a way to get back up to your feet. You, you're just always used to like overpowering people and then when someone's bigger than you, you're fucked.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  Way.

• 21:23Joe Rogan?

  You're fucked.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  So, were you always strong, like?

• 21:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, I was always strong, but I didn't really start lifting weights until I got into jiu-jitsu.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 21:32Joe Rogan?

  I mean, I always lifted a little bit of weights. I always worked out a little bit, but I was more into kickboxing than anything.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 21:37Joe Rogan?

  But when I started doing jiu-jitsu, I was like, oh, being strong is like a big advantage.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:41Joe Rogan?

  It's a huge advantage.

• 21:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:43Joe Rogan?

  Which is interesting, because I was watching this video where these guys were talking about this, these wrestlers. And they were saying that wrestling has always acknowledged that power is really important. But for some reason, jiu-jitsu, they would like to pretend that it's not important, that technique is everything.

• 21:57Speaker 02

  Was it cultural, from where it was? Like, were the Gracies and would like?

• 22:02Joe Rogan?

  I think technique is more important, right? Because if a guy doesn't have technique and he has strength, and you have technique, you can beat him.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  But you can't discount really effing strong.

• 22:12Joe Rogan?

  Right. But you also can't discount a guy who's really fucking strong with technique. And they're not mutually exclusive.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  No.

• 22:19Joe Rogan?

  Like, a lot of guys who are really fucking strong also know how to grapple, and that's a giant problem.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Now, is there, like, in the throws world, we always talk about, like, technique, speed is everything.

• 22:29Joe Rogan?

  Explain to people what you're talking about when you say throws world.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  Like, yeah, so I'm one of those nerdy guys that picked the sport that's like the least paying sport of all time.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  I was a hammer thrower. So, it's like a shot put, steel ball, sixteen pound steel ball, on a one meter, you know, three foot long wire. It's what you see on the Olympics, they spin around really, really fast and yell and scream and always make like the highlight reels of guys that scream.

• 22:51Joe Rogan?

  Where did that come from? Was that a weapon at one point?

• 22:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, so they actually, in Scotland, they would use, it was a hammer. They would literally have, like, for a gray area into society, and they have a cylindrical head on it, so they could use it every side. And so, that became a way to train for battle, because they weren't allowed, the Scottish weren't allowed to have weapons. Yeah, so they would start throwing stones.

• 23:14Joe Rogan?

  After the Braveheart days?

• 23:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, or during those days. So, they weren't supposed to have weapons, so they're like, F this, we're just gonna take all the stuff we have and stay strong, stay ready. And then actually their their stone was called the klacknart, which meant stone of strength.

• 23:28Joe Rogan?

  What a great name.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  Wonderful name.

• 23:30Joe Rogan?

  That's a Viking name if I ever heard one.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Viking, so tell me how badass this is. So like each family, like the Rogan family, like you're the patriarch, right? You have your klacknart up on the mantle or whatever it is. So at your family outings, whatever outings those may be, all the men, very much like in Braveheart, they would go and throw it. The guy who throws the klacknart, the family stone, the furthest is kind of like the dude. Like he's like, all right, all right, you, now my son has surpassed me. He's shown he's a man now.

• 23:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  Here's the wildest part. This this gives me chills. So they would, if they went off to battle, they would take their klacknart, their stone. And on the way out of town, they would all put it in a pile. And they're called, it's called a cairn or a cairn. So they would put it in a pile. So if they did not return to battle, they had placed their own monument to their town of their sacrifice.

• 24:18Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  So could you imagine? So when you go past these old towns and there's a pile, you're like, a lot of guys didn't come home.

• 24:25Joe Rogan?

  And those piles are still there?

• 24:27Speaker 02

  When I was in Scotland, they did say a lot of them are still there. I was competing when I did Highland Games, Scottish Highland Games. And it's wild. So like you think about, you're like, man, you're literally kind of placing your family's stone of like, I'm going off and if I don't show up, like.

• 24:42Joe Rogan?

  Dude, I was in Scotland last year and there was.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  What part of Scotland are you in?

• 24:47Joe Rogan?

  God, I wish I could remember.

• 24:51Joe Rogan?

  I'm not exact.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  Up in the Highlands, like all the rural stuff, Aberdeen?

• 24:55Joe Rogan?

  I went with some friends and they they took us to this place that my friend owns property out there.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  Naturally.

• 25:00Joe Rogan?

  And when we went there, there was a stone circle that is way older than than Stonehenge.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  No way.

• 25:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And it's just sitting there.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  A lot of stuff in Scotland is just sitting there.

• 25:14Joe Rogan?

  It's just sitting there in front of this dude's house and you can go and stand on it. I was like, this is crazy. And it's got like a little monument on it, but no one's stopping you from like walking around on it. And they're not big stones, they're like small stones, but this stone, they're like, I'm like, who made this? I was asking the guy that we were with, it's pretty knowledgeable. And he's like, no one knows. It's just left laying around.

• 25:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. So like Scotland, there you go.

• 25:35Joe Rogan?

  No, that's not it, but it's kinda like that. It wasn't nearly as high. They were smaller standing stones. And it was, uh, and there's a bunch of them like laying around, like there's a guide stone in the ground. Like, how old is that? Like, that's probably like thousands of years old.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 25:49Joe Rogan?

  But nobody knows. Like, they don't know who made the stone, who put it there. It's just a guide stone. Like, so if you were on a trail through the Scottish Highlands, you would find these rocks. We're on the right place, lad. And this is fucking stone that's been there for three thousand years or whatever. Like, they don't even know how old it is. And it's just sitting there.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Isn't that so cool, though?

• 26:10Joe Rogan?

  But it's a crazy thing. It was like across the street from this guy's house. So he's got like this normal house, and there's a little street, and then across the street from his house is this stone circle that's like, who knows how fucking old? Um, nope, it's not that either.

• 26:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, they had like, uh, the other stones of strength there, the Inver Stone.

• 26:28Speaker 03

  There are a few of them that are older than Stonehenge in Scotland, because all three of these I pulled up.

• 26:31Joe Rogan?

  God damn.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  Maybe you're just really high. Maybe you're in actually England.

• 26:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, totally silver. Look, look at that image right there. How weird is that one?

• 26:39Speaker 02

  So cool.

• 26:39Joe Rogan?

  The Ring of Brodger. How do you say that?

• 26:43Speaker 02

  They have some sweet names over there, too.

• 26:44Joe Rogan?

  Brodger. The Ring of Brodger. Like, what did they do in that ring? How many goats died in that ring?

• 26:50Speaker 02

  A lot of fights.

• 26:51Joe Rogan?

  How many fucking people got sacrificed in that ring? I mean, thousands and thousands of years ago.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  So cool. The, the stones over there, like, they, a lot of people go over, a lot of strongmen, they'll do like the stone tour. So they'll lift all the, they'll lift the Denny's stones and the Inver Stone. And the Inver Stone, I lift that, that was in an old lady's garden.

• 27:10Joe Rogan?

  Right? There's like a stone lifting tour?

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like a two hundred and sixty-five pound, like, big egg stone. And like-

• 27:16Joe Rogan?

  It's just laying around?

• 27:17Speaker 02

  It, it's literally in this lady's garden. It's called the Inver Stone.

• 27:19Joe Rogan?

  And people go there?

• 27:20Speaker 02

  People go there.

• 27:21Joe Rogan?

  Ma'am, can I go lift your rock?

• 27:23Speaker 02

  A one hundred percent what happens.

• 27:24Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 27:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, we were over there competing, uh, the US team, we were over there and like, all the Highland Game guys were like, let's go check this out. And we all lifted it, and she invited us in for tea. She's like, well, well, come and, uh, come and sign the book. And you look in the book, it's like Bill Kazmeyer was here, so and so was here. You're like, oh my gosh, like, the greatest strongmen in the world had come as a pilgrimage to lift this stone. And then they signed the book, and you're like-

• 27:44Joe Rogan?

  That's so weird.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  This is awesome. And then across the street-

• 27:47Joe Rogan?

  There it is.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, there, yeah. And then-

• 27:49Joe Rogan?

  How do you say that word?

• 27:50Speaker 02

  We call it the Inver Stone.

• 27:52Joe Rogan?

  Inver called, Inver called stone?

• 27:55Joe Rogan?

  It seems like it's almost been like honed.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Well, that.

• 27:59Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't it seem like it was polished to that size?

• 28:02Speaker 03

  There you go. That one's outside.

• 28:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that one actually has numbers on it.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the one I lifted.

• 28:06Joe Rogan?

  It says six, two hundred and sixty-five pounds is what it says?

• 28:09Speaker 02

  Yep. And so we lifted it and then actually so what happened after back in the eighties when Kazimir was coming on the scene, you know, Bill Kazimir, obviously, uh, world's strongest man, kind of started the stage. He allegedly picked it up, you know, it was the man thing. If you could pick it up, he picked it up and carried it across the street and bailed it up to the bar and laid it onto the bar and had a beer.

• 28:29Joe Rogan?

  I'd be mad if that was my bar.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Right. Oh, he chipped the crap out of the bar. It did. I was there. I was like, yeah, that's where Bill chipped it. This is badass. It's not a historian. I like that stuff. So we traveled all around, lifted all the stones. It was cool. But anyway, a thrower is a person who decides to do a sport that doesn't pay a lot. No, I'm just kidding. But it's a shot put, discus, hammer, javelin. It was all those original Olympic sports. They were all weapons. And so I.

• 28:53Joe Rogan?

  That'd be a good sport if you were a trans woman.

• 28:56Speaker 02

  Oh, you would, oh.

• 28:57Joe Rogan?

  You would dominate.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  Oh, if I.

• 28:58Joe Rogan?

  Regular chicks wouldn't have a chance.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm at forty-eight years old. I could still throw the living crap out of a woman's implement if I wanted to. It'd be, it'd have been a great move. Um, but yeah, it was a part of the track and field. I got into it in college. Kind of a weird Forrest Gump-like story and it changed the course of my life.

• 29:15Joe Rogan?

  Have you done lift, run, shoot yet with Cam?

• 29:18Speaker 02

  I haven't done it with Cam. Uh, no, I've, we've played around and done some stuff like that at my farm, uh, you know, during.

• 29:24Joe Rogan?

  You should do his, his podcast, the Lift, Run, Shoot Show.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  That'd be great.

• 29:27Joe Rogan?

  That makes you carry a rock up the fucking mountain.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  I went up Pisgah with him. I haven't carried the rock and, uh, but I'm sure you've done Pisgah.

• 29:34Joe Rogan?

  It's like the Cam rock.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  That's insane.

• 29:36Joe Rogan?

  I haven't done Pisgah. I'm not doing that. Fuck out of here.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  That was rough.

• 29:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 29:40Speaker 02

  That was rough. I started running. I'm not a big cardio guy.

• 29:42Joe Rogan?

  I just didn't go in anywhere where that guy's running.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  Dude, he is. He is as advertised as a badass.

• 29:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's a complete psychopath.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  Legit.

• 29:51Joe Rogan?

  He's one of my best friends. He's a complete psychopath.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  We did, we're, I, we all got running and then he kinda left me and then like he got to the top and then did his dance and then he came back down and like, hey, man. And it was, it was very remarkable. Like it, he goes, alright, why do I do this all the time? He goes, if we crested this corner right now and you saw the biggest pool of your life at 70 yards, could you make the shot? And I'm like, bro, I'm looking out my ear hole right now. Like I'm screwed. He goes, that's why I do this every day. I'm like, yeah, I'm tracking.

• 30:21Joe Rogan?

  He's also addicted to exercise. He's addicted to cardio.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:26Joe Rogan?

  I think there's a, a state of mind that a lot of those distance runners get in that they get really, really addicted to. And it, there's a runner's high, like the runner's euphoria. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. Long cardio sessions. Yeah.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  I never have. I've tried and then I just either get bored or mad at cardio. Then I go and lift weights and throw things.

• 30:44Joe Rogan?

  You've got like that power, strength, throwing background, you know, it's like, it doesn't really benefit you to be really into cardio.

• 30:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:53Joe Rogan?

  It actually probably would diminish some of your strength.

• 30:54Speaker 02

  Like heavily. Yeah. Greg Glaspin, back in 07, when I was throwing Highland Games, he was like, wow, you gotta do cardio or do a CrossFit. And I was like, why? And he was like, no, it'll help your throwing. I go.

• 31:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the CrossFit guy?

• 31:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:06Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't look like it works out at all?

• 31:08Speaker 02

  That's the one.

• 31:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:10Joe Rogan?

  I'm not taking advice from you, buddy.

• 31:11Speaker 02

  Well, I was sitting there and I was like, I'm 265 pounds. He's like, you should do CrossFit. And I'm like, I'm trying to be the best thrower in the world and that has nothing to do with any of this other stuff.

• 31:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I have a, I have a golden rule when it comes to taking advice. I don't take advice from anybody who looks like shit.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  That's sound. That's sound advice.

• 31:30Joe Rogan?

  If you look like shit, I'm not taking advice. I know he had like some physical problems, right?

• 31:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:35Joe Rogan?

  Something's wrong with him or something?

• 31:36Speaker 02

  But the bottom line is unknown and unknowable was not my sport. My sport was extremely known and extremely knowable. I know the.

• 31:42Joe Rogan?

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• 32:25Joe Rogan?

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• 33:06Joe Rogan?

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• 33:19Speaker 02

  Olympic trials are on this day and I need to show up. It's really far.

• 33:22Joe Rogan?

  And also, if you want to be a power lifter or if you want to do some just completely power-focused exercise.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 33:28Joe Rogan?

  It does not benefit you to spend time getting in like extreme cardiovascular shape? Like you do need to do what kind of running that Cam does?

• 33:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's not even not beneficial, it's detrimental.

• 33:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  I mean, we would joke, like, why run when you could walk? Why walk when you could sit down? And why sit down when you could lay down? Like as throwers, that's what we would do. And we would lay down every chance and eat every chance you get. And then we're like, I'm gonna stand up and do something really hard and fast for three seconds. And then I'm gonna go rest for a while.

• 33:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  Call me when I'm back up.

• 33:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, there's different, different things have different requirements. But if you wanna be a mountain elk hunter, what he does is very beneficial. I just can't run. My, I have a bad left knee that's been really bothering me the last few years. And I just twisted it again this September.

• 34:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're saying your sciatica was a little tweaked up.

• 34:17Joe Rogan?

  That was another problem. That was from overuse of, no, it's just being stupid. That's overuse of archery. So I was, yeah, because, you know, I have two bows. I have a bow that's eighty-four pounds and a bow that's ninety pounds. So I'm pulling these ninety-pound bows a hundred times a day.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  Are you shooting that many times a day?

• 34:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  Good for you.

• 34:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, you have to. It, for that moment when like a fucking giant bull walks in between the trees and you have a seventy-yard shot, you have to one hundred percent be confident that you can make that shot. And so I'm shooting at eighty-four yards over and over and over and over. And I'm obsessive, but the problem was I developed like tendonitis in my lower back. And so it's overuse from the stabilizing, from like holding yourself. So it's the pulling, well, I'm sure that's it, but it's also holding it right there in that position. And it's all in my right lower back. But it's much, much better now. I started doing this thing called New Fit.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 35:23Joe Rogan?

  Talked about it the other day with Derek. Um, where they're doing electrical muscular stimulation while you go through exercises. It's really helpful.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  Really?

• 35:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's been three weeks.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  It's like a micro current or more like a?

• 35:33Joe Rogan?

  It juices you up, like it's, all the, all the muscles contract.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  Like stem kind of thing.

• 35:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it's very strong. So this is, and you can crank up the intensity. So, um, this is some of the shit, like if you saw Mike Tyson when he was training for Jake Paul, he was doing that. Like, what I think it's really good for, I don't, I don't know if it's good for a lot of these things, but it's really good for rehabilitation.

• 35:57Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 35:57Joe Rogan?

  For rehabilitation, I think there's tremendous benefits to it. And I bet there's some benefits for athletes for working on specific things and doing it while you're getting juiced up. But man, for, for me, it's been, it's helped me quite a bit. Pretty, pretty quickly too, like three weeks later.

• 36:14Speaker 02

  That specific spot, or they, they firing something else?

• 36:17Joe Rogan?

  No, that's firing a lot of different parts of your back. So it's like both sides of my back, my obliques, my core. And just going through a bunch of rotational exercises and a bunch of different things to strengthen lower back and just, you know, you're getting a lot of blood flow through there and stretching it and it's, it just was, I was getting pain and I was like, shut up pussy, and I would just ignore the pain and then it just got bad.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:40Joe Rogan?

  It got bad to the point where my hips were getting kind of numb.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 36:43Joe Rogan?

  And when I was hiking up hills, like in October, when I was hunting in October, it was bothering me a lot. I was like, okay, I've got to really do something about this now.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, cause you could be, you know, talk yourself in or out of something really hard, but if it's something that's just going to be chronic, like, well, I'm screwing myself.

• 36:57Joe Rogan?

  Chronic, but it's a lot better now.

• 36:59Speaker 02

  Good.

• 37:00Joe Rogan?

  It's a lot better now, and it's only been three weeks.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Oh, that's great.

• 37:03Joe Rogan?

  My knee is still fucked, but not totally. It's mostly soft tissue. It just, I twisted it, I twisted it crossing, um, like slippery ground in, uh, in September. And, uh, I've had a lot of problems with it. I've had, uh, two knee surgeries, I had my ACL reconstructed. I had, um, a meniscus piece removed and then when I was skiing, the last time I skied, last and final time I ever skied, uh, this lady didn't know how to ski and she like slid into the trail and I had to try to not wipe out, not, not hit her or rather, and I wiped out and I got what's called the insufficiency fracture.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 37:43Joe Rogan?

  So it's a, the bone fractured at the top of my shin, my fibula.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 37:49Joe Rogan?

  Or my tibia, rather, um, right where the cartilage is. And so, yeah, that created quite a bit of pain. And then I twisted it again one time when I was about to get on stage. At Stubbs, I was going to Stubbs, which is like this outside concert venue and I was looking at my phone to turn my voice recorder on so I could like record. And as I was doing that, I twisted my knee on this concrete step, just yanked the shit out of it to the point where my leg was shaking while I was on stage because I was in pain. It looked like I was super nervous, but it was really just pain.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  Because I would think at this point, you get super nervous on stage when you're talking.

• 38:25Joe Rogan?

  No, once I'm up there, I'm not nervous at all.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  Do you still get nervous beforehand?

• 38:29Joe Rogan?

  I get excited, you know, I think anything you do that you really care about, you should get excited, yeah.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  I used to call it my national leg. When I would go to national championships in the hammer, all year I'd be fine. And when I would wind the hammer on the first one, when I took the hammer back, my right leg would bounce and I'm like, ah, there it is. It was one through a year and I was like, here we go, we're back.

• 38:49Joe Rogan?

  They just had adrenaline.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  Oh, it was adrenaline because what you're in your physically, you're peaking for it. You're like, this is the day I have to compete. You know how it was, but you're like, this is the day. And like, everything else is kind of work. And then you're like, I'm cashing out today. I get to cash out today. Like I get to like, and then it's like, oh, that's the best.

• 39:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  That's the best.

• 39:09Joe Rogan?

  Doing exciting things is really fun and it's so important for you to grow as a human. Do something that scares the shit out of you. Do something that excites you. Do something that's difficult.

• 39:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 39:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's almost, I don't know, sometimes it's good when it's a more dynamic where you don't know when it's going to happen, but but looking forward to something is pretty badass too. Because then you could start focusing training and focusing efforts and then going through like almost stages of guilt, but stages of excitement and you're like, okay, I'm excited. No, I got this one. Just go back and forth.

• 39:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  Let's go, it's live.

• 39:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what it is with everything. I mean, I think it's the these processes of like recognizing there's a goal, working towards it, solving problems, working hard, pushing yourself through discipline. That's how you grow. And it's like that, that's how everything grows, right? This is how your mind grows. This is how your body grows. This is how your life grows. Like you have to do stuff that's hard. And then you get better at doing stuff that's hard and that's how you get better.

• 40:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then you level up and you're in this next wilderness. You're like, all right, well, what's the next thing?

• 40:09Joe Rogan?

  When that alarm clock goes off, it's so hard to know that. You know all these things, but you're this, the force of the bed, the gravity of that warm bed.

• 40:19Speaker 02

  It's cold in the room.

• 40:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh, especially like shout out to people who live in like Alaska. They have to get out of bed.

• 40:27Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 40:27Joe Rogan?

  Fuck.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  I'm sure you've done some, some hunts where, you know, you're in a tent or something like that.

• 40:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  And then you're like, I know I really want to get out there, but oh my, this, you're like, my boots are frozen. And like, ah, maybe that bull will just kind of walk more this way.

• 40:42Joe Rogan?

  First hunt I ever did was Steve Rinella in Montana.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I remember seeing that.

• 40:46Joe Rogan?

  It was nine degrees, nine degrees in the morning. We're just like, Jesus Christ, this is so cold.

• 40:52Speaker 02

  That, that was the, the hunt that started it all for you, wasn't it?

• 40:55Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  Little forkie kind of buck from what I remember.

• 40:57Joe Rogan?

  No, okay. That's the buck.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  Oh, no way.

• 40:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the first buck I ever shot.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 41:03Joe Rogan?

  That's him. Yeah.

• 41:05Speaker 02

  That the, uh, the buck that launched a thousand hunting careers.

• 41:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, it was a life-changing experience, but you know, one of those things where, you know, you realize like, wow, where would we be without houses? And it was only, by the way, it was only, I think October, it was October of 2012. I'm pretty sure it was October. And it was already nine degrees in Montana. Like what, what was it like in February for these poor fucks? What's January like in the morning and you're in a tent? Fuck.

• 41:36Speaker 02

  Well, it's like Josh Smith up there at MKC has talked about, it's like, yeah, everyone loves Yellowstone. Y'all about to find out. February, he's like, everyone wants to move here. He goes, stick around. It's going to get live here in about January or February.

• 41:48Joe Rogan?

  How many people got super confused by that show and bought a house there? And they're like, what is this? Why is the ground solid?

• 41:56Speaker 02

  Exactly. Oh, I love it. He's like, this is fantastic.

• 41:59Joe Rogan?

  Especially someone who's never lived in the real north before. You don't know what happens when your ground freezes. The ground is a piece of rock. Like so if you fall on it, it's a rock. Everything freezes. Yeah.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  That's a, that's a whole different animal.

• 42:14Joe Rogan?

  It's a different way to live. That's for sure. But, you know, I was talking, um, with, uh, this gentleman yesterday, Rick Strassman, who's a scientist. Uh, but we were, we were talking about the time where he was living in Alaska and he was living in Alaska and he lived in Southern California. And then he moved to Fairbanks where it's 39 degrees below zero. And he's like, what the hell? And then it's dark for like 10 hours.

• 42:40Speaker 02

  Everyone's depressed and then the vitamin D lights.

• 42:43Joe Rogan?

  Not dark for 10 hours rather. It's, uh, it's only light for four hours. It was light for four hours. So it's dark for 20 hours. Yeah, fuck that.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  Have you, you've been to Alaska a lot, I would think. You like it?

• 42:55Joe Rogan?

  I like the people up there. They're hardy. They're different, different kind of human.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I was in a-

• 43:02Joe Rogan?

  Battle tested.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  They are, and everyone wears extra tough boots.

• 43:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you don't want to get caught outside with some fucking bullshit flip flops.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, and if your boots are too clean, you'll get made fun of openly. They're like, hey, nice new extra toughs.

• 43:14Joe Rogan?

  Like, you know, you're, you're friends with Tyler from Archer Country. Tyler's always walking around everywhere with flip flops.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  Bro, that guy hunted yesterday in shorts.

• 43:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's a different kind of dude.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Killed a deer in shorts.

• 43:24Joe Rogan?

  If you're in Alaska and you have flip flops, you're gonna die. You're gonna, your feet are gonna freeze off. You're gonna have no feet.

• 43:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:31Joe Rogan?

  Like, you need boots.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  I was out at a bar out there, we were in Homer, Alaska, and we were playing pool and jacking around.

• 43:37Joe Rogan?

  Where's Homer?

• 43:38Speaker 02

  Homer is, uh, they have this big spit that comes out. I don't know, it's in Alaska somewhere.

• 43:42Joe Rogan?

  How far up there?

• 43:45Speaker 02

  Far?

• 43:47Joe Rogan?

  It's all far.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  Alaska's big, man, I don't know.

• 43:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, you see how big it is and you like lay it over the country.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Jamie, where's Homer?

• 43:53Joe Rogan?

  How, how much we stole from the Russians.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  There it is. Of course you'd have that. Yeah, there it is. Um, so we were, yeah.

• 43:59Joe Rogan?

  God damn, Alaska's big.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  It's so cool, isn't it? So we're on that, like, big spit. So we were on that bay, which is crazy, and, yeah, so we were down there. And, uh, we were at a bar goofing around, and, um, I remember I walked into the bathroom and I was like, I just kind of noticed, I was like, wow, there's no mirror on the wall, whatever. It's like, oh, that's kind of interesting. And one of the guys was like, yeah, there's no mirrors in the bathrooms in Alaska, because it doesn't matter what you look like. You better just be capable or you're gonna die. And I was like, what a cool place. Like, he was just like, no one cares what you look like here, because everyone's hair is all froed out and they're dirty and oily and greasy. He's like, yeah, that's, that's the flex here, if you're, can make it.

• 44:40Joe Rogan?

  That's interesting.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was like, oh, what a cool. But, yeah, we were sitting in that bay. Looking across the bay with a pair of spot ears and and looking at tracks and seeing animals across the bay like nineteen miles away. It was crazy on that white snow. It was wild. I never thought you could see that far with a spotting scope.

• 44:57Joe Rogan?

  No ki- how much magnification is this spotting?

• 44:59Speaker 02

  Ninety.

• 45:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 45:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, some monsters, but still it was like, yeah, big swarro that you could see, you know, all the Elon stuff up in space with probably.

• 45:08Joe Rogan?

  Imagine those poor fools that had to hunt with traditional bows, no binos, no spotting scopes.

• 45:14Speaker 02

  Dude, did anything get killed?

• 45:15Joe Rogan?

  No wind checker, no rangefinder, no apps. I have apps, I have everything.

• 45:20Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:21Joe Rogan?

  I have a rangefinder that syncs up with my app.

• 45:24Speaker 02

  Of course you do.

• 45:25Joe Rogan?

  Man, I haven't even set it up yet.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  Do you nerd out on all this stuff like I do?

• 45:29Joe Rogan?

  I do. See, here's the problem. I have a loophole rangefinder. I really like loophole's full draw.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 45:35Joe Rogan?

  The reason why I like it is because it'll show you the arc of your arrow.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 45:40Joe Rogan?

  This is how nerdy it is, folks. So, my arrows go two hundred and ninety-four feet per second.

• 45:47Speaker 02

  Okay. How heavy?

• 45:48Joe Rogan?

  They're, these are four seventy-five, four hundred and seventy-five grains, and you calculate all this stuff. You put all this stuff into the rangefinder, and the rangefinder knows exactly how heavy your arrow is, exactly what the peak of it's gonna be as it comes off your bow, how fast it's going, and it gives you a line. So that line, so if I'm shooting through a gap in some trees, and I actually did this a couple of years ago. I actually did it when I had a Garmin rangefinder, right? So, the Garmin is a rangefinding sight, which is pretty badass.

• 46:22Speaker 02

  I've always wanted to play with one of those.

• 46:23Joe Rogan?

  It kept fucking up, though. And apparently they're getting better, but they've, they fucked me a couple of times. And it would fuck me on my range. Like, I would, I'd be at full draw on my range, and I know it's eighty-four yards, and I press the button, and I'm not getting a range. And I press the button again, and I'm not, so you would press the button and it would give you a red dot.

• 46:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 46:40Joe Rogan?

  When it works, it's the greatest thing of all time. Cause it's like a pistol. Like, you see that red dot, that clear lens, and then that dot? It's the best sight picture of all time, of all time.

• 46:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:52Joe Rogan?

  Everything else, like the post or the side post, they get a little in the way, just a touch. Not, not bad. I can deal with it, you know? But that red dot was fucking amazing. So, uh, I shot this, I'll show you the bull afterwards. I shot this big bull. And he was coming through this gap. And I wasn't sure if the arrow was gonna make it there, so I pulled out the second rangefinder.

• 47:13Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:14Joe Rogan?

  And I clicked on that, and I got the height of the arrow. I knew I could make it, and then I used the rangefinding sight. So.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  A man that knows his tools.

• 47:23Joe Rogan?

  The opposite of these guys with their traditional bow. Poink!

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:26Joe Rogan?

  Like, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm using technology.

• 47:29Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 47:29Joe Rogan?

  So the new loophole, though, the problem is it doesn't have this, this height thing in it. But the new one, when you range an animal with Onyx Hunt? So you range the animal and it mark, puts a pin down where that animal is.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Yep, I actually had the... I was one of the test subjects for that. They sent me, yeah, probably two years ago I was hunting at Deseret with it. Giving them feedback. We found a mule deer the day before, and I ranged him, marked him, and we went back the next day and I shot him at fourteen yards.

• 47:58Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 47:59Speaker 02

  It was awesome.

• 47:59Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy, because you can go back to the actual spot where he was.

• 48:02Speaker 02

  Yep, yeah, it threw it off to my phone, and, uh, it's like the, I can't remember what it's called. It's the range, but it has like the L of...

• 48:09Joe Rogan?

  Something 500.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  500, yeah, yeah, something like that.

• 48:11Joe Rogan?

  See if you can find it, Jamie.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:13Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty dope.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  It's super cool.

• 48:14Joe Rogan?

  I love loophole shit. I just wish their glass was as good as Swarovski's.

• 48:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:19Joe Rogan?

  Everybody, I say that about everybody, like Vortex makes awesome binos. For the money, you can't beat them. Especially their HDX series, those really high-end ones. Those are fucking great. Until you put it through the, pick up those NL pures and you're like, fuck.

• 48:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're like, eh.

• 48:35Joe Rogan?

  It's so, it's almost like I wish I never looked through them.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  Oh, it's, yeah, that's it.

• 48:39Joe Rogan?

  The RX 5000.

• 48:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, that thing is badass.

• 48:41Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty dope. So it does, it syncs up with your Onyx Hunt. See, it could show, show you how it works there. So what's really good about that is not just, um, you know, you know where you hit the, you know where the animal is. So if you have to go around somewhere and get back to him, you'll, you'll be able to get back to, you know, if you're trying to get away from the wind.

• 49:01Speaker 02

  Well, the spot and stalk is so nice because we were hunting mule deer in Arizona and you could, same thing, you're circling around and your depth of perception, you know, I've been 200 yards off.

• 49:14Joe Rogan?

  I feel like this is more designed though for the rifle hunter and this is like even, they're even showing guys like going 2,000 yards with this thing. I feel like for the bow hunter, they just need to add, maybe they'll just make it too big, but add that height of arrow technology. I don't know why they wouldn't put that in there.

• 49:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:33Joe Rogan?

  Cause I can't use it. I, I need that. That, that is so huge for elk hunting.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:38Joe Rogan?

  For me, it's like gaps or everything. I want to be able to be sneaky and just make my way around a tree. Just give me this. Give me this much and if it's, and if I know that the arrow's never going to hit the top or the bottom, I'm golden and I have full confidence. Cause otherwise it's a mind fuck. Cause I'm sure you've had arrows hit branches before. It sucks so hard.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:59Joe Rogan?

  Whack. Yeah.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  Like you're learning in Cleveland somewhere.

• 50:01Joe Rogan?

  A few years back in Utah.

• 50:04Speaker 03

  That one I had pulled up had a TBR, was made for ballistics.

• 50:08Speaker 02

  Four, I think this morning.

• 50:09Speaker 03

  These are all for archery.

• 50:10Joe Rogan?

  Yes. The foot, well, the TBR, so they're right.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 50:13Joe Rogan?

  That, that is, um, that one is a similar one. That was like, I don't think that's as sophisticated though, and I don't think that has the app. I think the RX one is the only one with the app, but I have that one, the full draw five. I don't go anywhere without that. It's the shit. That, that is to me, I have a, I've had a bunch of different ones that were really cool. Like Aaron Snyder turned me on to this Nikon a while back that was, um, uh, image stabilizing. That was a game changer. That was, that's a big deal because you could really like, get it right on the animal. Yeah. Image stabilizing rangefinder.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. I use image stabilizing binoculars. Have you used those Sig ones?

• 50:50Joe Rogan?

  I've used cams. I tried that. Pretty dope.

• 50:53Speaker 02

  I'm running 16s.

• 50:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Oh, right. Because you could just hold them with 16s and press that button.

• 50:58Speaker 02

  I have, I've run Swarrows since 1999. And I started leaving mine at home because I like the Sig so much. And they did the new HD, so it has a better, uh, glass. Now it's still not as clear as Swarrows. I mean, that's just, but because you could stabilize, I could run 16s and I'll run 16s in the woods. Cause I could just peer through everything and like boom.

• 51:19Joe Rogan?

  I ran 12s in the woods this year, which is a little too much.

• 51:23Speaker 02

  When you're when you're not stabilized.

• 51:25Joe Rogan?

  I usually run tens, but I like sometimes.

• 51:27Speaker 02

  Ten by forty twos?

• 51:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Sometimes when you're looking at something that's really far off, you're like, I don't know if that's a good bull. Is that worth chasing? The the twelves make all the difference in the world, but what I do is I grab my baseball hat. I learned this trick from Remy Warren.

• 51:41Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a good idea.

• 51:42Joe Rogan?

  So what you do is you.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  Remy's a killing son of a gun.

• 51:46Joe Rogan?

  I use a killing son of a mother. You clip that sucker down tight, so your hat's on tight, and then I'll do this.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 51:53Joe Rogan?

  And I'll hold my binos right here, or take my bow and put it here and then stack it on top of the bow. Press the bow up against your chest, so it's not going to go anywhere, and then stack it on top of the cam of the bow. A lot of guys do that.

• 52:05Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 52:05Joe Rogan?

  But Remy taught me this one, and I think this one's super legit. Just hold on to your hat.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Super fast, too.

• 52:09Joe Rogan?

  And you can get your, you can tuck your elbows in like this, and you can really keep it stable. If I couldn't do that, I wouldn't use twelves, but I don't think I'm going to use twelves anymore, anyway.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  Really?

• 52:18Joe Rogan?

  No, I think tens are the way to go, and maybe even eights, because you get a bigger field of view.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:23Joe Rogan?

  Because a lot of times I'm seeing stuff through trees and I'm sneaking around, like I like to. You know, I'm a big spot and stalk guy. That's, I've tried a bunch of different hunting. I've tried ground blind, I tree stand hunted with Dudley.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 52:38Joe Rogan?

  That, you can go fuck yourself with that, sitting in those trees all day. Fuck that. I am way too ADHD for that.

• 52:46Speaker 02

  You'll find out if you're crazy.

• 52:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I'm crazy.

• 52:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:49Joe Rogan?

  I'm definitely crazy.

• 52:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:50Joe Rogan?

  I don't like it. I don't like being up there in a tree like that.

• 52:54Speaker 02

  Here's my question, though. I was just in Missouri. I went to our farm, I was there six or seven days, and we sit. You know, thirty minutes before to thirty minutes all day.

• 53:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you have to.

• 53:05Speaker 02

  So is, but I would think with as many people as popping on you and all this, like, it was nice, because for me, I'm like, I'm quiet, I could just be. I enjoy, I enjoy that part where I could just unravel and think, like, think through problems. But yes, you go crazy and then you burn out your phone because you're like, and I'm going to search for the dumbest things possible.

• 53:26Joe Rogan?

  I'm going to buy socks.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 53:29Joe Rogan?

  You just sit, also, you you don't realize, like, if it's thirty degrees out, like, thirty degrees is no big deal. You're gonna walk around in thirty degrees, but as soon as you're sitting there.

• 53:37Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 53:37Joe Rogan?

  In thirty degrees, you get so fucking cold.

• 53:39Speaker 02

  So cold.

• 53:40Joe Rogan?

  You're not moving, so you're not generating any heat at all.

• 53:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:43Joe Rogan?

  So then you're in this stupid body warmer suit that zips up.

• 53:46Speaker 02

  You're like in a big Snuggie.

• 53:47Joe Rogan?

  It's a big old oven, and my hands are in here, but the problem with that is if a deer comes, then you gotta.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, all the stuff.

• 53:54Joe Rogan?

  Make all that noise, you gotta get out of it, all this movement, grab your bow.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:58Joe Rogan?

  So you really shouldn't do that, so you try to go with a puffy, but you're still freezing, so then I started doing Bruce Lee exercises while I'm up there and fucking.

• 54:06Joe Rogan?

  One thing I realized, uh, I, um, I was so cold, I had a hard time pulling my bow back once.

• 54:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:11Joe Rogan?

  I was going to shoot this deer, and I was up in that stand for like four or five hours, yeah, in Iowa. And I go to pull that bow back, I'm like, Jesus.

• 54:19Speaker 02

  Well, because you shoot a ninety pound bow.

• 54:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but I was so cold.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  Part of it. Yeah, oh, no, it's, yeah, I'll sit there and just do like, you know, like.

• 54:25Joe Rogan?

  I had a ninety-five pound bow for a while.

• 54:27Speaker 02

  Remember when he made you that one.

• 54:28Joe Rogan?

  Uh, I couldn't draw it on my knees, I had to stand up. You know how I found that out?

• 54:32Speaker 02

  Because you couldn't.

• 54:33Joe Rogan?

  Because I was on my knees, right behind a bush, and an elk walked behind me, I'm like, fuck, god damn it.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  That was super helpful.

• 54:40Joe Rogan?

  In a weird spot too, where I'd only lean on my left leg too, like, so it was, you know, it was like, I was on my knee, but I was even on my left knee, it was like a fucked up hill.

• 54:48Speaker 02

  You don't have a good.

• 54:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I was like, my right knee was up like this, my left knee was down there, like, this is bullshit. That bow was crazy.

• 54:55Speaker 02

  I remember you texted me.

• 54:56Joe Rogan?

  It would shoot five hundred and forty grain arrows, three hundred and five feet per second.

• 55:01Speaker 02

  Bro.

• 55:02Joe Rogan?

  When it hits, it was just like. It was, it was cra- like, I remember we were shooting at the Deseret, and we were all shooting at a hundred yards, just me and a couple of these guys.

• 55:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:12Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, they shot first, and then I shot, and the guys go, what the fuck are you shooting? Because the bow was so flat.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  Still rolling at that point.

• 55:20Joe Rogan?

  He goes, that bow is so flat, what is that? And I'm like, this is a ninety-five pound bow. It was the dumbest thing ever.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  I remember you sent me, you was like, this thing's preposterous.

• 55:28Joe Rogan?

  It was so dumb. It also had a really short brace height, so it was super sketchy. So if you moved your hand, it was so unforgiving, that if you moved your hand. And even slightly, you were off target by six inches.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  Oh geez, yeah.

• 55:41Joe Rogan?

  It was really twitching.

• 55:42Speaker 02

  Driving a little Tokyo drifter around all the time.

• 55:44Joe Rogan?

  It was so dangerous. Not dangerous really, but like you just wouldn't, I wouldn't trust it. You know, I killed a couple of animals with it and I stopped trusting.

• 55:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you get to put it on the wall and go like.

• 55:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, then I went to an eighty pound bow from Hoyt and I was like, oh my God, this is so much better. It was like fifteen, twenty percent more accurate. I was like, that thing is just too, too sketchy.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  I just got that RX nine like last week.

• 56:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's great, bro.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  It's, I'm shooting seventy six, but I'm thirty and a half inches. I got a pretty good stroke on it.

• 56:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, man. Yeah, I need some extra horsepower at twenty eight and a quarter. I need like.

• 56:16Speaker 02

  I'm shooting five twenty grain at about two eighty two. So it's moving out.

• 56:24Joe Rogan?

  That's great. That's the like, um, guys like Randy Ulmer, he likes two sixty five to two eighty.

• 56:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:32Joe Rogan?

  He thinks that like that's, that's the range where the arrows are like the most accurate. There's this thing about having too much fucking whip.

• 56:41Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 56:42Joe Rogan?

  You know, there's too much and it's almost like.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  Too much flex on the arrow.

• 56:45Joe Rogan?

  A lot of flex in the arrows and it's probably more subject to wind drift when they're flexing like that, you know?

• 56:51Speaker 02

  It's like when we used to throw the javelin, there was different rated javelins and you could be too strong for the jab. And so if you don't pull through the tip perfectly, just like arrow spine.

• 56:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 56:59Speaker 02

  And so you have a fifty, fifty meter jab, sixty meter jab, seventy meter. And when you start getting strong, you could bend a fifty meter jab like a banana. It's kind of fun, actually. It comes out like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, like Lamar from, uh.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  Like what was it? Uh, Revenge of the Nerds?

• 57:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 57:14Speaker 02

  But yeah.

• 57:15Joe Rogan?

  That makes sense that it would be just like arrows.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 57:17Joe Rogan?

  Cause for folks at home, um, say if you have a fifty pound bow, you could probably get away with a three twenty grain arrow. Three thirty, three fifty. So the higher the number, the more flexible the spine of the arrow is and the lighter the arrow will be.

• 57:34Speaker 02

  Right.

• 57:34Joe Rogan?

  So I shoot a two fifty. So it's about like, oh, like a nice stiff.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Suit yourself to pull cue.

• 57:40Joe Rogan?

  Kinetic energy.

• 57:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if you're.

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Especially how much weight you have in the front creates that more of a flex.

• 57:45Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. But it's, to me, it's all. All about like I've heard arguments before like people say, oh, you don't need that much bow power. You don't shut your fucking dirty little skinny mouth. Because the only reason why you would say that is because you can't pull that back. That's the only reason. And if you think that seventy pounds to you is the same as seventy pounds to me and you don't work out, that's just dumb. That doesn't make any sense.

• 58:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like saying, well, you don't need a 500 pound deadlift to look. Yeah, but it's nice.

• 58:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but if you can't squat 500 pounds and you have to squat 500 pounds, you can't do it. I can. So shut the fuck up.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  It's nice to have in your pocket.

• 58:23Joe Rogan?

  Shut your dirty little skinny hole.

• 58:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:26Joe Rogan?

  Because all that is, is you're you're just saying there's virtue in being physically weak and that's stupid. That's stupid. Do you need um to be able to pull back 80 pounds to kill an elk? No. If you can't pull back 80 pounds and you're really accurate with 60 pounds and you have a cut on contact broadhead, you can be successful, but I'm going through that whole animal.

• 58:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:47Joe Rogan?

  I'm getting a pass through on a giant animal and you're probably not gonna.

• 58:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:51Joe Rogan?

  And I think that's it's more important to be able to have the most ultimately lethal setup possible. I learned this from Cam. He's my mentor.

• 59:00Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 59:00Joe Rogan?

  He's the guy who taught me how to bow hunt and you know, his whole thing is he shoots a 90 pound bow as well. It's like the most amount of power and you want to make a big fucking hole.

• 59:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 59:10Joe Rogan?

  And you want that animal to die like that.

• 59:12Speaker 02

  Well, with anything, why would more horsepower, if you could handle it, not be advantageous?

• 59:17Joe Rogan?

  It's stupid. That's why race cars have limits on the amount of power you can have. Because it's more advantage, you know, if Formula One drivers figured out a way to get a 4,000 horsepower engine and have it handle, they would win.

• 59:28Speaker 02

  They would win.

• 59:29Joe Rogan?

  They would win.

• 59:29Speaker 02

  Like and or if you could punch 30% harder than everyone else in UFC.

• 59:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 59:34Speaker 02

  Do it.

• 59:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, literally.

• 59:36Speaker 02

  You'll make a lot of money.

• 59:37Joe Rogan?

  Became the heavyweight champion of the world. Fuck it's harder than anybody.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's interesting. Uh, my buddy Lauren Landau, strength coach, and I was talking to him last week and he did a actually a study on uh, ground force power into into punching. And they did. So they tested it on um, like a force plate, jump and force plate. And then they did a Proteus machine. Have you ever seen one of those? They're kind of like, it's like you kind of throw it and push it, kind of the same thing. So they tested the power of the punch, then tested ground force. And then they did squats, but they also did like a trap bar deadlift. And then the training was a jammer arm, like a, you know, a jammer arm punch. So they had the sequence of force. And he had a double digit increase of strength through the, or power through the ground. And it equated to a 12% increase in punching power.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  So almost, almost percent for percent. So you look at that and say, well, if you're, if you're stronger, you squat more or deadlift more now, as long as it doesn't take away from the sport. But that has a very, very real effect on punching power.

• 1:00:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it does. The, the, the way it takes away from the sport is if you're sore from lifting weights, you're not going to train as effectively. That's just a fact.

• 1:00:49Speaker 02

  Or it takes too much time away from your technique or injury.

• 1:00:53Joe Rogan?

  That's where steroids come in. And that's why Gordon Ryan can train 365 days a year. He's open about it. Like, he's open about his use. Cause they don't test for steroids in jiu jitsu. So, you know, he's a wizard. So he's like a pragmatist.

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  I, I figured that they would.

• 1:01:07Joe Rogan?

  Nope.

• 1:01:08Speaker 02

  UFC, they do, right?

• 1:01:09Joe Rogan?

  The UFC, they do. But have you ever seen Gordon? You ever seen him with his shirt off?

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. It's a.

• 1:01:14Joe Rogan?

  That motherfucker, he ain't passing no tests. Give me a photo, one of them photos of Gordon looking like a Greek god.

• 1:01:20Speaker 02

  He's, he's squared away.

• 1:01:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I mean, when you have that and then you have a genius level IQ. And then on top of that. Yeah. The fuck out of here. It's pretty difficult. This big shit eating grin on his face. And then you have a guy who trains 365 days a year, who also works on technique constantly. That's how you have the greatest of all time.

• 1:01:39Speaker 02

  Yep. Yep. Yep.

• 1:01:40Joe Rogan?

  But by the way, all those guys like Galvall, the guy who was on the bottom there, he's on the juice too. It's a level playing field. They're all juiced up.

• 1:01:46Speaker 02

  Right. Right. It was kind of like the, uh, the lifters and the throwers of the eighties. Uh, everyone had a 600 pound bench because that's what you do. And guess what? You got to test now.

• 1:01:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is a great argument to this idea of power being necessary. Like with jiu jitsu and grappling, you know, like if you have technique like Gordon's and you're built like him, yeah, giant advantage. Giant advantage to be super strong always. In all of life, there's fucking zero advantage of being weak.

• 1:02:13Speaker 02

  No, there's never a time you're like, you know what, if I could just get my squat down a bit, that would really pan out for me.

• 1:02:19Joe Rogan?

  One thing, though, that is really important, this, this actually really pays off. If you can train with a guy who's small, like if you can learn jujitsu with a guy who's small, you'll learn the best jujitsu.

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  Why's that?

• 1:02:33Joe Rogan?

  Because they have to use technique, they have to use leverage. Like, you're a big fucking strong guy, if you learn jujitsu, you, you could use that strength, you could squish people's necks and throw them on the ground and grab their arms and stuff like that, but a small guy can never do that. So if you can learn jujitsu from like a Barrett Yoshida, or a Hoiler Gracie, or Eddie Bravo, or, there's a few of those, Gabe, Gabe Tuttle, who teaches over here at 10th Planet. Small guy jujitsu is the best jujitsu, because it has to be razor sharp. Cause they don't have the physical strength, like overpower an arm and get you into a certain position just from raw horsepower. They have to like sneak it in there with leverage and they have to do everything perfectly.

• 1:03:15Joe Rogan?

  So those guys, if you learn jujitsu from them, you're gonna learn like the most technical jujitsu.

• 1:03:21Speaker 02

  Is that like, obviously a, a reason why you should learn younger, when you're small?

• 1:03:26Joe Rogan?

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• 1:04:32Joe Rogan?

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• 1:05:50Speaker 02

  One week?

• 1:05:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's always good to learn young because, first of all, it becomes a natural part of your movement. Like, it's like, as your body matures, your body's... I think it's more important with striking than anything. It's very rare that someone learns how to strike while they're already physically mature and can ever reach the level of like a Floyd Mayweather.

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:06:12Joe Rogan?

  Because that guy, as he was a child, his body, his reflexes developed, striking. And he's just got this massive encyclopedia of information that's available to him. He knows exactly, when he sees you do this, he knows that straight left is coming, and he knows all he has to do is do this, and he knows the counter's gonna be there when you go to look for the right hand afterwards. He's just got it all programmed. It's swat! It's all just like, right in there. For you to build that up... After you're 28, like, eh, you're gonna be, you're never gonna be at his level. You're not, you, you, you kinda have to, unless you're some physical freak, which do, they do exist.

• 1:06:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, but they, what I've understood too is the potential for building speed, which is, let's be honest, speed is a big part of power, which is punching, right? It's the sequence of force, how do you create force to the ground, explosion of force, not implosion into your arm or your foot or whatever it is. That ends at 22, that the potential to develop the potential for speed ends at 22. Yeah, that's why all the, the weightlifters and everyone gymnast, everyone has to start young. Because there's firing patterns.

• 1:07:22Joe Rogan?

  27 and you try, you'll never.

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  You won't reach the potential you could have genetically, because you just don't have this, the sequence, the speed, right? It's, it's the, I know how to do this at speed, it goes whack, whack, whack through here, and I could crack that whip.

• 1:07:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:37Speaker 02

  Your body just has, it's done too many other things at lower speed.

• 1:07:42Joe Rogan?

  You know where I really noticed that? Uh, with kicking. And when I teach people kicking, there's certain things that they have a really hard time doing fluidly.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Sequence of force.

• 1:07:53Joe Rogan?

  The big ones is like anything that requires spinning. Like, if you look at, uh, a good MMA fighter that doesn't have like a Taekwondo background, and you teach them how to throw a wheel kick, they'll never be able to throw a wheel kick like, like a real Taekwondo black belt. There, there's certain guys that, like, as they're young, they're developing these spinning techniques, and they just got it wired in, their whole nervous system just, and it's so smooth and fluid that the power is so extraordinary. And, you know, I've taught people that were like elite MMA fighters, and I try to teach them how to throw things like a spinning back kick, for instance, and it, it takes a long time for them.

• 1:08:36Joe Rogan?

  Even like John Jones is one that he landed, like, uh, on, on Stipe. That, that guy's a freak, like, that, that guy is like what we were talking about, like, you can, there's some guys, you can teach them things when they're in their 30s, and they could develop it like as someone who's been doing it their whole life. But that's, that's a rare exception. Another rare exception I was thinking was Alex Pereira. Alex didn't really start striking until he was like 21 years old, he didn't even start training.

• 1:09:02Speaker 02

  But my question would be, what other things did he do that? That exaggerate like like that developed that speed and power sequence cuz like

• 1:09:11Joe Rogan?

  You know what he did? He worked in a tire shop.

• 1:09:14Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:09:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so he's like hoisting tires and hammering tires down and setting wheels.

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  Right, so you're learning, you're learning to do the most cuz if you're doing it for a job, you're gonna do the most efficient method possible to move an object, right?

• 1:09:28Joe Rogan?

  You're also gonna

• 1:09:29Speaker 02

  Whip that tire up there to

• 1:09:30Joe Rogan?

  Develop rotational strength.

• 1:09:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:09:32Joe Rogan?

  You're throwing hammers down. I mean, he's doing this eight hours a day, all day long. So like, think about how many tires he's hammered, right?

• 1:09:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's not a training thing for him.

• 1:09:41Joe Rogan?

  Francis Ngano, when he was a child, worked in a sand mine. So he's fucking digging sand all the time and he just

• 1:09:49Joe Rogan?

  His body's just, as he's developing. I've also massive physical specimen, right? So he's like six, six or six, five, whatever he is. Two hundred and sixty-five natural, built like a fucking Greek god, like a statue. And his whole body's developing as he's a young man digging sand and the anger you have. Like, I can't believe I have to dig this fucking sand.

• 1:10:12Speaker 02

  It's like the wheel of pain, like Conan just walking.

• 1:10:14Joe Rogan?

  It is like Conan. He really is like a guy from a movie. In a sand and then becomes a heavyweight champion of the world, was homeless.

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:22Joe Rogan?

  His, his, you ever heard his story?

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. So a buddy of mine, Bo Sandoval, used to run the, uh, strength and conditioning direct. He was a strength and conditioning director at UFC. And so he told me about it years and years. He's like, we got this guy. And I was like, really? He goes, no, this is gonna be a dude. And I'm like, really? And he told me his whole story about Cameroon and like living in France and the whole deal. And I became like, I never even looked eyes on the guy. I was like, this guy's, he's my guy. I wanna like, I wanna like him.

• 1:10:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he told the whole story.

• 1:10:49Speaker 02

  Like, oosh.

• 1:10:49Joe Rogan?

  His life story told on the podcast about making his trek, like he just decided he has to leave Cameroon. And everyone's like, what are you gonna do? You can't go anywhere. And he went through the fucking desert.

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:00Joe Rogan?

  All the way to Morocco and then gets in a raft and does it seven different times. He gets arrested, gets taken into custody. They bring him into the middle of the desert, drop him off. He goes right back to Morocco, walks through, hitches rides. Took him a year and a half.

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  If he makes I don't care how much money that guy makes, it's not enough. For, for just being able to do that, like, that is so, so.

• 1:11:23Joe Rogan?

  How about he has one boxing fight, he knocks down the heavyweight champion of the world, and one of the greatest heavyweight boxers of all time. He hits him with a left hook and drops him, and almost won. Like, I thought he won the decision. It was over, I was like, they're gonna give it to him. I think he won the decision. He was battering him in the eighth round, he dropped him in the second. I'm like, I think he won. And a lot of people thought he won.

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:44Joe Rogan?

  And he came that close, that fucking close.

• 1:11:47Speaker 02

  And so is that like, uh, obviously genetically, super gifted, right? But then also, like, we're talking about like shoveling and doing all this work. When you do that work for that long, you learn how to become efficient, because you don't wanna spend extra time and effort doing stuff. So you just learn how to kinda move stuff.

• 1:12:02Joe Rogan?

  There's a little bit of that, and I think, to be, uh,

• 1:12:07Joe Rogan?

  to be really charitable, I think Tyson Fury probably didn't think that he had a chance. I think Tyson Fury probably didn't train as hard as he would have trained if he thought that Francis was a real threat.

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:12:18Joe Rogan?

  I think he probably thought, I'm gonna box this guy's fucking face off, how could this MMA fighter, and then he gets hit with one of them hammers.

• 1:12:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:26Joe Rogan?

  Thud.

• 1:12:26Speaker 02

  And he's the Terminator.

• 1:12:27Joe Rogan?

  He gets left hooked in the side of his head, he's like, what the fuck did this guy just hit me with? And he's on his ass, as the heavyweight champion of the world, fighting a guy with zero professional fights. That was his first ever pro fight, his second ever pro round, and he drops one of the greatest heavyweights in the history of the game. You, I think, my, here's my, uh, Mount Rushmore of heavyweight boxers. Mike Tyson's number one. Mike Tyson, from 1986 to like 1990, there was not, or 88, whatever it was. It was a few years before the wheels came off, cuz he was just going crazy and partying, fighting with syphilis and shit, he was that, he was a maniac.

• 1:13:09Joe Rogan?

  But that guy, the guy who knocked out like Michael Spinks, the guy who knocked out Larry Holmes, the guy who won the title from Trevor Berbick, I think that guy's the greatest heavyweight fighter of all time. He was a juggernaut, man. The guy who knocked out Marvis Frazier, that's the scariest version of Tyson ever, the Marvis Frazier version. But you could also-

• 1:13:26Speaker 02

  Cause you were like probably late high school.

• 1:13:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I was like a little kid and I remember like walking out with my skateboard and they're like, "Did you see the Larry Holmes fight last night?" I was like, "Oh no." But I heard it was like 19 seconds or whatever it was.

• 1:13:37Joe Rogan?

  It was crazy.

• 1:13:37Speaker 02

  We were just all pumped about it.

• 1:13:39Joe Rogan?

  No, the Larry Holmes fight went a few rounds.

• 1:13:41Speaker 02

  Differently than I did as a kid.

• 1:13:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well I was, yeah, I was doing a little boxing myself and I was a giant boxing fan. He was a freak. He was a very unusual thing.

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:13:50Joe Rogan?

  Because every other heavyweight was kinda slow and even if they could hit hard, they were lumbering. He was bobbing and weaving and moving and he was a small heavyweight. Wasn't even six feet tall.

• 1:13:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:59Joe Rogan?

  So he's built like a brick shithouse. He's got a 20 inch neck. He's uh, 220 pounds, moves like a guy who's 150. And he's throwing lightning bolts at your central nervous system. Just blang! He's hitting you to the body and your fucking legs are shutting off. He was a monster. I just think you can't maintain that forever.

• 1:14:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:20Joe Rogan?

  And I think, I always, when I look at fighters, I try to look at them like when they were, when they were white hot.

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:14:28Joe Rogan?

  Just burning hot at the highest level that they could achieve. What was that like? Like what was the, I feel like, as great as Muhammad Ali was, man, I just don't see him surviving.

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  Not at the height, the height, the height.

• 1:14:41Joe Rogan?

  No, I just, I see like, Henry Cooper dropped Ali when he was, back when he was Cassius Clay with a left hook and they cheated to get him out of the round.

• 1:14:50Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 1:14:51Joe Rogan?

  Um, Custom Auto cut his gloves. So they had to take his glove off and replace the gloves. They gave him all this recovery time. You ever seen that Henry Cooper fight? Henry Cooper was a bad man. He was this uh, British boxer, this uh, guy from England who had a nasty left hook and he caught Cassius Clay just bap! Perfect one and his like leg, and he's like slumped down the ropes. He was Dunsville. But it was at the end of the round and then Angelo Dundee, I mean, that guy had been around the block.

• 1:15:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, he knows his stuff.

• 1:15:21Joe Rogan?

  Cut these fucking gloves. See if you can find that, Jamie. Cause it's a, it's a cra- it's a crazy fork in the road in history.

• 1:15:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:15:29Joe Rogan?

  Cause if they don't cheat, likely, he gets stopped.

• 1:15:34Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:15:34Joe Rogan?

  Likely, Henry Cooper, who landed the perfect left hook, hits him with a couple more. And that's it. He's done. He looks done already. Like, watch this. Henry Cooper had a nasty left hook, who the, bro. Look how he's down there.

• 1:15:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:47Joe Rogan?

  That's not regular down. That's fucked up down. That's like real trouble, but it's the very end of the round. Look at this, bro. Well, look how it goes down. That is, that's Dunsville. So if that's a minute earlier, if he gets hit with that. Yep. The whole thing changes. Right. The whole thing changes. He's not undefeated when he fights Sonny Liston. He's not this unstoppable force. Isn't that crazy? Crazy! And that can happen. Yeah. And there are fighters that I have seen in the UFC that I go, this guy could be the next fill in the blank. This guy could be the next great welterweight champion, the next great lightweight champion.

• 1:16:28Joe Rogan?

  And then they have one fight, and in one fight, something happens. They get hit with a flying knee, or they get head kicked, or something happens. Yep. And then their whole path changes. And you're like, wow. If that guy wasn't overmatched, if he didn't fight that guy. See, which this is the difference between boxing and the UFC. The UFC is like, when you're ready, come to us. Hmm. And you're gonna fight the best. Wow. Boxing is like, we're gonna build you. Mm-hmm. We're gonna take you and you're gonna fight a few guys that are like, real slick, but they don't have power. And then you're gonna fight a big guy with a lot of power, but he doesn't have any endurance.

• 1:17:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and they're like, they're like, he's ready for this now. You know, if you have a really good trainer like Tyson Fury's trainer Sugar Hill, he's gonna like, he's analyzing your movements, he's breaking down things, he's figuring out what to change, what not to change, when to back you off of training, like, you're a little too hot right now. Let's like, Oh, interesting. Let's not peak too soon, because we got two weeks before the fight. Sure. I want you to take a day off. Like, take a day off, I'm ready to fucking eat nails. No, no, no. No. No, we gotta, we gotta, they know exactly. And then they're like, he's ready for this level of competition. So they'll give you a guy that'll offer you some struggles, some tests. Maybe he's got a big, big punch and, you know,

• 1:17:48Joe Rogan?

  you might lose the fight, but you're most likely gonna win, and this is how you find out if a guy's gonna make it. Right. You slowly move him. So there's a lot of boxers, you know, by the time they're fighting for the title, they're 14-0, 16-0, 18-0. Right. Charles Olivera. I mean, what is Charles Olivera's record? Let's, let's see Charles Olivera's record. So Charles Olivera, when he became the lightweight champion, he had a ton of losses in the UFC. He got stopped by Paul Felder, he got stopped by Cub Swanson KO'd him. He got, I think, I'm pretty sure Jim Miller knee barred him. So what is his record?

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  Jim's a freak.

• 1:18:27Joe Rogan?

  Look at that, 35 and 10.

• 1:18:28Speaker 02

  Oy.

• 1:18:29Joe Rogan?

  Okay, and so, out of those 10, a few of them have been recently, scroll back up to the top, please. So the Islam Makachev, he loses the title, and then Armon Sarukyan, he loses a split decision. I thought he won that fight, by the way. Um, but it was close. So those are the two out of those 10, so that means, as a champion, he had eight fucking losses. Eight losses, and some of them brutal knockouts. Because you're in there with the lions, with all the lions. And so the UFC is like, who's the baddest lion, let's figure it out.

• 1:19:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:19:04Joe Rogan?

  Like, you want to be in the UFC, you win a few fights, we're gonna throw you in, or if it's, you know, lash, short notice.

• 1:19:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:12Joe Rogan?

  Short notice fight.

• 1:19:13Speaker 02

  Let's go.

• 1:19:14Joe Rogan?

  And the thing you find out, too, is that the level at the UFC, as great as some of these guys look in these other organizations, the level at the UFC, that's the peak. Those are the greatest fighters on the planet, there's no arguing about it. And we found out about that this past weekend. Because Alexandre Pantoja, who might be the best pound-for-pound fighter alive, he's the flyweight champion. He fought this dude Kai Asakura from Japan, who's a fucking assassin. But Pantoja just ate him alive, just ate him alive. And he got caught with a couple of good shots, too, a couple of good knees to the body, and, you know, Kai Asakura's a really good fighter, but the level was just different. Like, Pantoja just, he strangled him.

• 1:19:56Joe Rogan?

  But it's just the way he did it, I mean, he was fucking him up on the feet, he was fucking him up everywhere, he was just pushing him. In this like insane pace. You watch those little guys fight, like, they can, they fight like pit bulls, man.

• 1:20:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:08Joe Rogan?

  Like, just like wild scrambles, where they're moving so fast, you're trying to call the fight, and it's like, me and Daniel- We're talking about during the commentary like we have to recalibrate our brains.

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:20Joe Rogan?

  Cause you will go from a heavyweight fight to a flyweight fight like whoa.

• 1:20:23Speaker 02

  It's like listening to a podcast when you turn it to 1.5.

• 1:20:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:26Speaker 02

  I actually had to start listening to your podcast at regular speed because I was, I thought you talked really fast. I was just like, oh Joe, no one talks that fast because I listened to it super fast.

• 1:20:37Joe Rogan?

  Somebody sent me a clip of uh someone, some political person talking about one of the guests on the show and I was like, what is wrong with the clip? And then I had to realize like, oh, they got an un speeded up version.

• 1:20:48Speaker 02

  Do you listen to stuff speeded up?

• 1:20:49Joe Rogan?

  Never, never.

• 1:20:50Speaker 02

  A buddy of mine taught me that. He, he listens to books. He got up to four, Forex. And so he just downloads.

• 1:20:56Joe Rogan?

  Absorbing it the same way?

• 1:20:57Speaker 02

  I think if you're kind of like Rain Man, which I'm not.

• 1:20:59Joe Rogan?

  I'm not.

• 1:21:00Speaker 02

  But I could go one, five pretty easy and I could, I could just get through it faster.

• 1:21:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I see how that could help, but for me, um, I'm, I'm not doing, reading the books on tape or listening to books on tape for anything other than my own enjoyment and education. So for me, I'm enjoying it.

• 1:21:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:19Joe Rogan?

  So I like to think about the things and I'll have more time to think about what this person's saying. If they're not going at one and a half speed, because if they're going at one and a half speed and going one concept to the next, then I'm like, wait a minute, I don't understand what you're saying.

• 1:21:30Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:21:30Joe Rogan?

  Then I have to back up.

• 1:21:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:32Joe Rogan?

  I like to think about stuff. So it's like, especially if I'm listening to something esoteric or really weird.

• 1:21:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, makes sense.

• 1:21:40Joe Rogan?

  Which is a lot of the stuff that I listen, if I'm not listening to fiction, I'm probably listening to a book on physics or something.

• 1:21:45Speaker 02

  I listen to Jack Carr stuff at regular speed because I really just enjoy the books.

• 1:21:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that guy, what is his name? Who's the guy who does his uh?

• 1:21:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, uh by.

• 1:21:54Joe Rogan?

  Guy's really good.

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can't remember. He has a lot of good um dialects and everything.

• 1:21:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:59Speaker 02

  Jack texted me this morning, said hi.

• 1:22:01Joe Rogan?

  He's the man.

• 1:22:02Speaker 02

  He's awesome.

• 1:22:02Joe Rogan?

  I love that dude. See our, we're cross tomahawks on the wall?

• 1:22:05Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure. I love it. Yeah, he's like, hey, Joe, Joe, I said hi.

• 1:22:08Joe Rogan?

  I love that dude. He's salt of the earth.

• 1:22:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, we just got him some CMBs.

• 1:22:12Joe Rogan?

  Ray Porter. Ray Porter, that's it.

• 1:22:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, Ray Porter.

• 1:22:15Joe Rogan?

  I knew it was a Ray something.

• 1:22:16Speaker 02

  Cross tomahawks on there.

• 1:22:17Joe Rogan?

  He's the fucking man. And um, the thing about his books on tape though is you're locked into Ray Porter forever. Some new person starts reading.

• 1:22:26Speaker 02

  You're screwed.

• 1:22:26Joe Rogan?

  Like who is this guy? This is bullshit.

• 1:22:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:30Joe Rogan?

  You can't, you can't have this guy doing it.

• 1:22:33Speaker 02

  Guy's amazing.

• 1:22:34Joe Rogan?

  I'm used to all the voices.

• 1:22:35Speaker 02

  I like, Rafe is a good, good boy.

• 1:22:37Joe Rogan?

  He's got a South African accent.

• 1:22:39Speaker 02

  It's, it's.

• 1:22:39Joe Rogan?

  You know who else is really good? Who's the guy who does the Gray Man series? There's a guy who does, you ever listen to the Gray Man series? I'm so addicted. Mark, Mark Graney writes them. They're so ultra violent. They're so fucking crazy. They're so crazy. It's about a CIA hitman.

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  Oh wow.

• 1:22:56Joe Rogan?

  It was like a singleton guy they send all around. Dude. It's so, like, they made a movie about it.

• 1:23:01Speaker 02

  Is that like one of the weird ones who give you like, you'll think about it all night?

• 1:23:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:23:04Speaker 02

  When I would start watching The Sopranos, like, my view on the world would change.

• 1:23:08Joe Rogan?

  J. Snyder. That guy's really good. He does really good girl voices too, which is weird. But, um, those fucking books, man, they are so ultra violent. They're so crazy. They're so crazy. Like, sometimes I listen to them and I have to shut them off before I go to bed. Like, if I listen to them, like, I like to take the sauna before I go to bed. And so, if I'm listening to, like, you know, a book on cosmology, that's great. It's interesting. Well, go to bed and think about space.

• 1:23:33Speaker 02

  That's kinda cool.

• 1:23:34Joe Rogan?

  But if I'm listening to some Gray Man before I go to bed, I'm like, I gotta shut this off.

• 1:23:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, we don't need that.

• 1:23:39Joe Rogan?

  You know.

• 1:23:39Speaker 02

  We don't need that in the house.

• 1:23:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, people getting their fucking eyeballs, like, giant swords shoved through their eyeballs, getting blown up, grenades in their mouth, like, yay!

• 1:23:48Speaker 02

  Hey, yeah.

• 1:23:49Joe Rogan?

  Hey!

• 1:23:49Speaker 02

  It's just...

• 1:23:50Joe Rogan?

  Hey, hey, hey!

• 1:23:51Speaker 02

  Do you, do you, like, scroll around? I know you're not supposed to look at your phone before you go to bed. I, I always just, I, I like look up ballistics. My wife's like, "What are you doing?" And I was like, ah, she's, it's like, kinda...

• 1:24:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's good. That's not social media. That's good.

• 1:24:05Speaker 02

  Well, I do it because I actually could think about stuff and it doesn't matter. I have to look at something that doesn't matter. Like, if I look at, like, a good...

• 1:24:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:24:13Speaker 02

  Don't check an email. Like, you're screwed, right? Like, and I'll tell my wife. She's like, "Hey, I got a question for you." It's like, the lights are off. Don't ask questions right now. Like, I'll be, all night I'll be thinking of this problem I have to solve.

• 1:24:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:25Speaker 02

  So, like, I'll just sit there. I'm like, "Hey, I wonder what the ballistic coefficient of a 350 Remington Magnum is."

• 1:24:30Joe Rogan?

  By the way, anybody with a beard like yours, I would assume they know the ballistic coefficient of a 350 Remington Magnum. It's like, I see a dude in a beard like that and he's kinda jacked, I'm like, that guy knows how to shoot some things. One hundred percent.

• 1:24:43Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, so you would be-

• 1:24:44Joe Rogan?

  Probably loads his own bullets.

• 1:24:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, do about a nine inch drop at three hundred. Interesting. Okay, I'll keep that in mind.

• 1:24:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, probably load your own rounds.

• 1:24:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, you know.

• 1:24:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I bet you do. I get you get them presses.

• 1:24:55Speaker 02

  Pops used to be really, really into that. Thankfully, I know the guys at Nostler, so they just sent me ammo, which is nice.

• 1:25:00Joe Rogan?

  I've made the mistake of looking at social media before I go to bed and I get mad, or I get upset, or I get sad, or I find out some weird shit that's going on in the world.

• 1:25:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:10Joe Rogan?

  And when I was younger, I'd read things that people would say about me and I'd be like, oh my god, like, what was this asshole? That's not true. And you get all upset. And then I realized like, wait, this is just some person. Like, I wouldn't talk to them in real life. Like, what do I get? Why is their opinion more valid because it's written down? So then, I stopped reading all comments about me. And, oh my god, it changed everything. Changed everything.

• 1:25:34Speaker 02

  You do the posting ghost, right?

• 1:25:35Joe Rogan?

  Yes, it's the way to go. Like, I have friends and they'll come to me, like, they'll come to the comedy club or something, and they'll be like genuinely emotionally distraught because people are attacking them online. I go, but they're not here. Like, right here, your friends are here, and you're all freaked out. He goes, I know I gotta stop reading that stuff. I go, you gotta stop reading that stuff. First of all, it's not true. You're really funny. You're a great guy.

• 1:25:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:25:58Joe Rogan?

  So it's all bullshit, and they don't know you.

• 1:26:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:26:00Joe Rogan?

  So they're just deciding to do this, and they know that it fucks with you because you talk openly about it, and so now they're gonna accentuate it. They're gonna, yeah, they're gonna keep jabbing at you. They got a rock, there's a window, yay!

• 1:26:10Speaker 02

  They're in the cheap seats. We're whipping them in there.

• 1:26:12Joe Rogan?

  You gotta stop doing that, man. And a few guys have listened to me and a few guys haven't. And the guys who've listened to me, they all say the same thing. Like, oh my god, I feel so much better. I'm like, yeah. Social media is not the problem. The problem is either engaging in the anger and the hate, or having, reading people's anger and hate towards you, and having it fuck your head up. Like, hey.

• 1:26:33Speaker 02

  Do you think it's something that's like systemic, that is literally spreading and growing? Like, the people that put that type of trash out all the time, and then they think there's some sort of value to that, and then other people see it?

• 1:26:45Joe Rogan?

  There is some value, right? They do get engagement, right? And if you're a person that has like a YouTube show where all you do is shit on people, you have bad karma for sure. For sure, you're suffering.

• 1:26:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, but you gotta deal with that the rest of your life, like dealing that poison.

• 1:26:57Joe Rogan?

  You can make a living doing that. Like, there are guys who make a living doing that. They're all fucked up. I'm not saying there's value in it. But I do think you make something out, you can create a career doing that. That's part of the problem is that it's effective.

• 1:27:14Speaker 02

  Right, like trolls.

• 1:27:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like it does get engagement. But then, you know, what kind of engagement are you getting? Look, I have people that hate me online, but not the ones who know me.

• 1:27:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:27:27Joe Rogan?

  That's what's kind of important.

• 1:27:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:29Joe Rogan?

  The people that know me either in real life or through the podcast know I'm a nice person.

• 1:27:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:27:35Joe Rogan?

  I work really hard at it. I'm actually, I try hard to be a nice person. It's not like, it's a conscious effort. I'm good at it. I like doing it. I like nice people.

• 1:27:44Speaker 02

  Makes you feel good, right?

• 1:27:45Joe Rogan?

  Makes me feel good.

• 1:27:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:47Joe Rogan?

  So I don't engage. I don't fire back at people. I don't, I don't, you know, when people get mad at me, even celebrities have attacked me online, I'm like eh.

• 1:27:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, how's that feel like? Probably being in that world a bit more and then now having people turn on you probably feels strange.

• 1:28:02Joe Rogan?

  Eh. They're just, they're just revealing who they are. They're just weak. They're just weak people. They're not the type of person that... Liv, if you did that in front of me when you were around me, we could have a conversation about why I feel like you're incorrect. And this assumption that you have of me is totally wrong. And also, if you're not talking to someone in person and you're saying something about that person, like, you don't, you could just kind of like form some bullshit narrative.

• 1:28:32Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:28:33Joe Rogan?

  The person's right there, they go, that's not true. That's what, so you're saying something and if it was true, then you'd be justified in your anger. But what you're saying is not true and you're taking things completely out of context and you don't know what you're talking about. And you're doing this because your life sucks. And it's the only time you do it. I've always said, do you think Michael Jordan is posting on YouTube, is he making comments? No. When he was in, if YouTube was around when Michael Jordan was the king, would he be doing that? No. He doesn't have time because he's being a winner.

• 1:29:00Speaker 02

  Cause he's actually winning and doing, yeah, a hundred percent.

• 1:29:03Joe Rogan?

  Guarantee you, Michael Jordan reads the comments and if he did read the comments, he'd be up all night, anger. You know, like you saw that, that Neil, uh... Neil Brennan had a bit about Michael Jordan's documentary on his last Netflix special. It's pretty funny. It's like unless you want to be the greatest basketball player of all time. He goes, you don't hold grudges unless you want to have 150 million dollars worth of passive income every year. Because it's a fucking silhouette of you dunking. Unless.

• 1:29:34Speaker 02

  Unless. It's a good unless.

• 1:29:37Joe Rogan?

  But again, those are freaks, right?

• 1:29:38Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:29:38Joe Rogan?

  These are the outliers.

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:40Joe Rogan?

  These are the people like as a rule, as a human being, that's not the way to go.

• 1:29:43Speaker 02

  Just insatiable desire to like just hammer that nail until it's just so far down in the wood. You're just like, I don't know what you're doing anymore, but yeah, man.

• 1:29:52Joe Rogan?

  That's how you become the greatest of all time.

• 1:29:54Speaker 02

  You leave no question.

• 1:29:55Joe Rogan?

  It's just, the difference between that in sport versus that in fighting though, is in fighting, you could, I don't think you can maintain it.

• 1:30:03Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:30:03Joe Rogan?

  Like a guy like Jordan, how long was he in his prime? It was a decade, right?

• 1:30:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:07Joe Rogan?

  A decade, for a decade, he was dominating in basketball.

• 1:30:10Speaker 02

  Wild.

• 1:30:11Joe Rogan?

  You can't really do that in fighting. You kind of, John Jones is the only one that's been able to do it.

• 1:30:15Speaker 02

  You think it just takes so much aggression, so much edge, so much damage.

• 1:30:20Joe Rogan?

  The damage to your body is huge. Cause there's so much damage that happens just in training. I mean, John tore his peck off of his fucking shoulder in training.

• 1:30:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that wasn't getting hit. That was.

• 1:30:31Joe Rogan?

  Wrestling. Yeah.

• 1:30:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:32Joe Rogan?

  And then there's the, the impacts that you get, and then there's the, you know, the back stuff. You know, you get thrown weird, you land on your back weird, you, you, you're throwing someone.

• 1:30:43Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:30:43Joe Rogan?

  A knee hits you weird, you know, your ribs break all the time, hands break all the time. Like common gym injuries, knee blows out, noses, everybody's got a broken nose. I don't know anybody who does any kind of combat sports that hasn't broken their nose. So there's like, after a while, you can't breathe out of your nose, your nose is destroyed, your fucking hand hurts when you try to like open your car door.

• 1:31:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:09Joe Rogan?

  And you have to punch people in the head with it. Your, your knee hurts going downstairs. Kamara Usman, you want to hear something crazy? When he walks, he has to walk backwards downstairs because his knees are so bad.

• 1:31:21Speaker 02

  Oh, because he can't get the knee over the toe.

• 1:31:23Joe Rogan?

  His knee hurts so bad and he's, he was a welterweight champion of the world with those knees. And he was talking about it openly. He was like, oh, you know, you can know, you can know my knees are bad. I'm still going to fuck you up. And he did. He fucked everybody up forever.

• 1:31:35Speaker 02

  It's coming.

• 1:31:36Joe Rogan?

  To Leon Edwards. But his knees are so bad that he would have to walk on the grass where everybody was like walking on the sidewalk. He'd have to go over to walk on the grass because just to take a little bit of relief. Just something. Yeah. Bone on bone, man. Yeah. Bone on bone.

• 1:31:53Speaker 02

  Well, it looks like the operators, like, you know, guys are jumping out of.

• 1:31:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:31:57Speaker 02

  Like, all of them are jacked up. And everyone in the strength world, everyone's low back, everyone's shoulder, everyone's knee.

• 1:32:03Joe Rogan?

  Everyone in jiu jitsu. Everyone's got a back problem. Everyone's got a neck problem.

• 1:32:06Speaker 02

  It's just part of it.

• 1:32:07Joe Rogan?

  Everyone blows a knee out. Yeah. Yeah. And if, you know, Eddie always used to say, look, you're gonna have to get surgery. Eventually. You're gonna have to get surgery. Just get the surgery, heal up, come back. You're not gonna stop doing it.

• 1:32:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, we rebuilding this engine and keep it racing? Or is this like, uh, doing as least as you can to not get surgery?

• 1:32:23Joe Rogan?

  My second surgery, I went to this doctor and when I had a bucket handle meniscus tear, so it would lock. You ever had one of those? Where it locks out. It was fucking brutal. And, uh, he was like, you've got to stop doing martial arts. I go, shut the fuck up. I go, you don't know what you're talking about. I go, fix this. I go, he's like, when you're older. I'm like, yeah, when I'm older. Like, right now, I'm 30 years old. Fix my fucking knee. I gotta go strangle people. What are you talking about? What the fuck are you talking about? Stop doing this. I'm not gonna stop doing this.

• 1:32:52Speaker 02

  Same thing. I was 22 when I had that. And I had an Olympic trial in two years.

• 1:32:56Joe Rogan?

  It's too much fun. Fix it.

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  I was like, yeah, no, like, no, think, and I, before I went in, I was like, I've squatted this much and I do this. When I come out of it, I expect to be back there. So fix it like that. Don't fix it like I'm an old guy taking it easy and like, I'm young. I got, I got shit to do.

• 1:33:11Joe Rogan?

  Do they fix it differently depending on like who you are?

• 1:33:13Speaker 02

  I don't know. I just felt better.

• 1:33:17Joe Rogan?

  I'll tell you what, they do get, they got a lot better.

• 1:33:20Speaker 02

  I would assume they would actually fix you. Maybe they wouldn't fix normal people.

• 1:33:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, I tell everybody, if you have an opportunity to get, um, a ACL reconstruction, please, at least try the cadaver graft. I know a lot of people want to do that patella tendon graft because you don't have the risk of rejection. I don't know anybody who's had a rejection from the, uh, cadaver. I do know people who have pushed it too hard, too early, and then re-blown it. Because you know how it works? Do you know what happens?

• 1:33:47Speaker 02

  I'm not familiar.

• 1:33:48Joe Rogan?

  It's really kind of interesting. You get this. So my right knee, uh, when I blew my ACL out, they take a cadaver, like I have a dead dude's Achilles tendon, which is much thicker. I don't know his name. Who was it? God like Francis Agado.

• 1:34:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're like, oh, this some stud.

• 1:34:05Joe Rogan?

  Just fucking animal, just giant Viking dude. So it's a, it's thicker than the, it's 150% stronger than a real ACL.

• 1:34:14Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 1:34:14Joe Rogan?

  And so they screw that in place and then it's not like you have this dead guy's thing in there forever. What happens is your body re-proliferates. It acts as a scaffolding. So it can feel like it's secure, but it's really vulnerable.

• 1:34:27Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 1:34:28Joe Rogan?

  So you have to be super careful up until like that six month mark.

• 1:34:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:34:32Joe Rogan?

  When it should be re-proliferated.

• 1:34:33Speaker 02

  And so does the, does the foreign tissue eventually just kind of get reabsorbed, which is kind of weird?

• 1:34:39Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. You, you eat that dead guy's Achilles with your knee.

• 1:34:44Speaker 02

  My knee is just munching these dead dude Achilles.

• 1:34:46Joe Rogan?

  But man, I've had no problems with this knee. This right knee is amazing. The left knee, I had a patella tendon graft and, uh, cause I, I had that one done in 93 or 94. And that one, back then, that's the only way they did it, but it was really good. It, but it took a long time to heal. Like it was a long time before I could kneel down on the ground. Like if I had to kneel down and put my knees on the ground. Cause they take a piece of bone out of your shin and they take a piece of bone out of your kneecap. And then they take a slice out of your patella tendon and they pull that off and they open you up like a fish. And they fucking drill it into your shin bone and drill it into your fibula.

• 1:35:23Speaker 02

  Love that.

• 1:35:24Joe Rogan?

  Your, your tibia and your, uh, femur rather.

• 1:35:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:26Joe Rogan?

  And it's like.

• 1:35:27Speaker 02

  Rap it over.

• 1:35:28Joe Rogan?

  They get it in there and then it's like a year before it feels like you could do anything with it. It took a while before I felt like I really trusted it. But I do have to say, I was not as diligent with my rehabilitation back then as I was when I got this one done. With this one, I was, I rehabbed it all myself.

• 1:35:46Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:35:46Joe Rogan?

  I didn't, I went to like one or two of these things. I'm like, they're just showing me things I already know how to do. I'm like, I know what to do. I'm just going to do this and do it all day. So I was doing body weight squats like all day long.

• 1:35:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:55Joe Rogan?

  And I got it to six.

• 1:35:57Speaker 02

  Blood, blood, blood.

• 1:35:57Joe Rogan?

  Six months later, I was training again, full blast, no problems.

• 1:36:00Speaker 02

  Were you doing any like the BPCs or any of the peptides?

• 1:36:03Joe Rogan?

  There was nothing available back then.

• 1:36:04Speaker 02

  Oh, well, back then.

• 1:36:05Joe Rogan?

  So this was 2003.

• 1:36:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:36:07Joe Rogan?

  That I got this one done.

• 1:36:08Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 1:36:09Joe Rogan?

  And this was the patella tendon, uh, this was the cadaver rather.

• 1:36:11Speaker 02

  How do you think the

• 1:36:13Joe Rogan?

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• 1:38:15Speaker 02

  Recovery would have worked for us. Like with all these dings and injuries, because I've had a, I'm sure you probably have too. A couple of friends that got surgery, that actually the doctor hit them side injection and even IV with BPC 157 during the, the reattachment of a pack or a bicep.

• 1:38:31Joe Rogan?

  Super legit. It's super legit along with TB 500.

• 1:38:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:35Joe Rogan?

  Apparently that combination of those two together is the most effective. Yeah. Super effective. And, um, you know, there's a lot of people that resist that for some strange reason.

• 1:38:45Speaker 02

  Why?

• 1:38:45Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. Uh, I think, I think there's a bit of ego involved in not knowing something when you're an expert. Um, I find that with, uh, there's a real problem with unfortunately some orthopedic surgeons. Um, Aaron Rodgers was explaining this to me that his doctors were telling him not to do stem cells after he got his Achilles fixed. He's like, what are you talking about?

• 1:39:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:09Joe Rogan?

  Like, shut the fuck up. And so of course he did stem cells and of course he went to ways to well. And of course he was back three months earlier than they thought he could ever be.

• 1:39:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:20Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, there was like some real thought at the end of that season that he was probably going to be able to play.

• 1:39:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:25Joe Rogan?

  Where everybody's like, this is nuts. Like nobody recovers from this stuff fast, but he was very smart and he didn't push it too far.

• 1:39:30Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:39:30Joe Rogan?

  And he waited until it was fully.

• 1:39:32Speaker 02

  Follow Brigham and all this stuff.

• 1:39:34Joe Rogan?

  But yes, stem cells work. There's a reason why you have to go down to Tijuana to get the good ones. Cause it's, they fucking work.

• 1:39:40Speaker 02

  Like anything that works is like, you're not allowed to do it anymore.

• 1:39:43Joe Rogan?

  Biden. It is fucking, the steroid thing in 91, that cocksucker. He really did.

• 1:39:49Speaker 02

  I was talking to a, a strength conditioning professional the other day at the administrative level. And we were just talking about different things going on. I said, yeah, I said, I, I, you know, I said, there's people in my opinion in your world that, that don't know about BPC 157. He didn't know about BP and I'm just like.

• 1:40:04Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 1:40:05Speaker 02

  And I'm like, okay, I was taking it eight years ago.

• 1:40:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know what it is though? It's like they don't continue to learn.

• 1:40:12Speaker 02

  That was my point.

• 1:40:13Joe Rogan?

  And then they're in practice all day. They're constantly working on people.

• 1:40:16Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:40:17Joe Rogan?

  People are coming in the door. Oh, this guy blew his ankle out. This guy's got a fucking blown shoulder.

• 1:40:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:21Speaker 02

  But then, and I said, the weird part is, is, is you have a strength conditioning professional. And in some ways, there's more information cutting edge on a podcast from guys that are interested in training.

• 1:40:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:40:34Speaker 02

  Than there are from like the, you know, and I'm just like, hey, guys, just open this, the scope a little bit like.

• 1:40:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's enough of these guys that are super smart and also jacked, like these Andrew Huberman guys.

• 1:40:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40:46Joe Rogan?

  And, and, and super smart guys that are in the bodybuilding world, super smart guys like, uh, like Derek from More Plates More Games. He's the best example, cause he's just a fucking encyclopedia of data and studies and efficacy and what you're, how you combine things together. And he actually runs a clinic, so he, he really knows what he's doing.

• 1:41:06Speaker 02

  Right. So you get the boots on the ground, you see it in real time.

• 1:41:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:09Speaker 02

  Uh, this, uh, my doc is, uh, Eric Serrano. I don't know if you know Doc Serrano, he's up in, in, um, in Columbus, but, you know, everyone has gone to him over the last 30 years, but he's one of those dudes that has like a basement gym.

• 1:41:22Joe Rogan?

  Columbus, Ohio?

• 1:41:22Speaker 02

  Columbus, Ohio, yes.

• 1:41:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's where Louis was.

• 1:41:24Speaker 02

  Exactly. He was Louis' doctor.

• 1:41:25Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 1:41:25Speaker 02

  So, yeah, he was, he was Louis', he was, you know, you, you go through all professional baseball, it's like, okay, got it, tracking.

• 1:41:31Joe Rogan?

  He's one of the rare guys that, uh, we went to him to do a podcast.

• 1:41:35Speaker 02

  How was that?

• 1:41:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it was awesome.

• 1:41:37Speaker 02

  Did you go to Bob Evans with him?

• 1:41:38Joe Rogan?

  Uh, no, we just, we, we hung out in his gym.

• 1:41:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:41:41Joe Rogan?

  You know, and he, uh, he just was introducing me to a bunch of freaks and showing me all the stuff that he invented and why he invented it.

• 1:41:48Speaker 02

  So cool.

• 1:41:49Joe Rogan?

  Louis Simmons, he was the fucking man. He was so funny. He was so funny. He was such a character. He was telling me about how he got his shoulder blown, got his shoulder, uh, replaced. And then immediately when he got back to the gym, they made him max out and bench. And I was like, what are you talking about? You need to recover. It's like, don't, they were like, don't be a pussy.

• 1:42:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:06Joe Rogan?

  You have to max out.

• 1:42:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. I was there in 2002 and so Louis and his wife Doris, and they would always, you always meet the Bob Evans in the morning and he would eat and like do the whole deal. And he was telling me a story about how he had a, he got, he got pissed off and he could, something to his cell phone and he threw it out the window while he was driving. And then, so he didn't have a cell phone for a couple of weeks. And then he got to the gym and he missed a lift and he punched his own tooth out. Punched himself so hard, he knocked his own tooth out and then took a, a wire brush that you like clean the chalk out of a barbell and smashed himself on the head.

• 1:42:41Speaker 02

  And he was just pouring, his wife was like, yeah, Lou was pouring blood and he knocked a tooth out and I'm just thinking, Westside was awesome. Holy crap. So I got talking to him and he was like,

• 1:42:50Joe Rogan?

  Dude had no biceps.

• 1:42:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, right. Cause he blew them out.

• 1:42:53Joe Rogan?

  It just never got it fixed.

• 1:42:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, a lot of those guys, same. Yeah, it's wild. But he was like, yeah, those cats would, they'd fight. And he goes, we would literally like, there's some, some tuned up dudes in there. And he said that we would just literally kick them out the door. If they were fighting on the floor, we would kick them out of the way. So they're out of the way of the monolift. So we could keep squatting. Like every 30 seconds, you're up or 90 seconds, whatever. It's like, I don't care if you're fighting, literally hitting each other with stuff. Move the next guy up. And like, this place is wild.

• 1:43:24Joe Rogan?

  They created some fucking animals.

• 1:43:26Speaker 02

  Here's a wild story. So we were there and this, this drunk chick came in. She was like, cause this was the old West Side. It was like in this little shopping center with all the windows were all blacked out and everything. It was pretty dope. And this drunk chick walked and she's like, hi y'all, working out here. And she was tuned, man. She was like all sloppy, like legit street person, right? And I'm like, oh, this is going to go bad. Like, I'm just, I'm just reading the room, right? Like there's, it was not a lot of estrogen in that room, right? So I'm like, oh man, this is going to be bad. Lou's like, hey, hey, come here, come here, come here. So he puts a, a weight vest on her and then puts a second weight vest.

• 1:44:06Speaker 02

  So 25, 25, it's a 50 pound weight vest and takes her outside, wraps a, a belt around her waist with a sled and had her walking, doing sled pulls back and forth with a weight, 50 pounds of weight vest on her shoulders. Drunk, drunk as shit.

• 1:44:24Speaker 02

  I'm just like, I'm just like watching, like, what? She comes back in, he's like, all right, come over here. He puts her on the monolift, two red bands, maybe just the bar, wasn't a lot of weight on there. And had her doing speed box squats, eight sets of two for speed and was teaching her how to box squat. She finally stumbles out and just leaves. And like later on, I'm like, Lou, did you know that girl? He goes, no. I'm like, she was just some random street person and you had her squatting? He goes, shit, half the people in this room were that person a year ago. I'm like, oh. He goes, he goes, she could be world champion. You know her now.

• 1:44:59Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:45:00Speaker 02

  And I was just like, that, that, that's

• 1:45:02Joe Rogan?

  What a crazy mentality.

• 1:45:03Speaker 02

  That stuck with me for so long. He's like, most of these people are broken and they have some addictive thing and something. And he goes, if they could channel it into something, that might be the next world champion.

• 1:45:16Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:45:17Speaker 02

  And, and I don't know if you ever saw her again, or if I, if I was just there that one day and it's stuck with me for shoot, 22 years. And I just thought about that. I'm like, he put his money where his mouth was. He was a coach and he wanted to see what could, what could someone do?

• 1:45:33Joe Rogan?

  You know, that's so interesting because one of the guys who trained with Louis was Matt the Immortal Brown. Matt the Immortal Brown, I know he did some training with him and I've always said that there's something about guys that used to be addicts that have like died and Matt died and it's been a few guys that I know that that came back from that. They were the scariest fucking people because they had crossed over and then they realized there's a good addiction. The good addiction is to training.

• 1:45:59Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:45:59Joe Rogan?

  Just be completely addicted to training.

• 1:46:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:03Joe Rogan?

  So those are some of the fucking scariest dudes.

• 1:46:05Speaker 02

  It was wild. I mean, I know, I knew a lot of those guys from that world and a lot of them are addicted to different stuff. And unfortunately they get into training and then if they get out of it, it kind of, that addiction might pass or it might come back.

• 1:46:17Joe Rogan?

  That happens with fighters when they, when they retire. And then also they're generally dealing with some issues mentally.

• 1:46:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:25Joe Rogan?

  Impacts, you know, and so a lot of those guys start drinking, they start doing coke.

• 1:46:29Speaker 02

  I always loved how, how Louis just saw it differently. And my, my dad was the same way. Like he used to always say, look for something, not of what it is, but what it can be.

• 1:46:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:37Speaker 02

  And, and that would, that meant human potential, that meant designs, that meant like application of stuff. And it's just like, yeah, that person's whatever, but if you push and you tweak and you push and you tweak, there might be something in there that's like super beautiful and awesome, but you never know if you just said that's a drunk chick that walked in the gym.

• 1:46:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's crazy with him because he's actually done it a bunch of times and it worked, right?

• 1:46:57Speaker 02

  Weird.

• 1:46:57Joe Rogan?

  So this attitude he's developed over time to just accept the fact that this person might come in 16 Coors Lights deep.

• 1:47:05Speaker 02

  Dude, just, just tuned, just tuned, you know, but

• 1:47:12Speaker 02

  buddy of mine, he, he trained at West Side and he said, I mean, half the time, he said, there's, he's like, I've seen guys bench 700 pounds like on acid, like just. Freaked out of their mind. It's just like wild stuff. And I'm like, holy cow. Like that whole world's wild. Yeah, like you had an old, uh, I mean, that's a whole world like is so extreme, right? The fighting world, the lifting, the throwing, like dudes who do some pretty wild stuff.

• 1:47:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, and whenever you get like these male oriented, alpha characters that all get together and they're all butting heads and trying to figure out who's the baddest motherfucker around them. They're they're also develop like a culture of like acceptance of certain aspects of life that come like the injuries and pain and suffering and you know, like wrestlers, they're they like brag on suffering the most. They want to suffer more than anybody. They're like, that's the badge of honor is a what time do you get up? 4:30. I was on my 14th mile at 4:30, you know, like

• 1:48:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, just drag you into deep water. Let's make it worse.

• 1:48:12Joe Rogan?

  That's the part of the culture of wrestling is embracing the grind. That's the whole thing. It's like being the guy who can push, being that Cam Haynes motherfucker that does those 340 mile runs.

• 1:48:24Speaker 02

  Is because I think I've read before, is this accurate that the highest winning percentage in the UFC were all from the wrestling background? Is that accurate?

• 1:48:32Joe Rogan?

  I'd probably say that's probably accurate. I think if you had a see, if you had to say like, what's the back? I've always said that's the foundation of martial arts because the wrestler can decide where the fight takes place. Wrestler, uh, generally mentally, they're going to be tougher because they went through the hardest thing when they were a child. The hardest thing as a child is wrestling. You're starving yourself when you're growing. You know, you're dehydrating yourself before matches, you're training and competing dehydrated, you're in a fucking hot room. You know, clashing with other alpha males and you're throwing each other around and it's the hardest thing.

• 1:49:10Speaker 02

  And staph infections every once in a while.

• 1:49:13Joe Rogan?

  But that skill is so important. The skill to be able to manipulate bodies and take them down. And if you could teach a wrestler jujitsu, oh my God. They're so much better at it because they're just so accustomed. It's just they just have to learn a new series of movements to go with this skill set. That they already they they're great at controlling.

• 1:49:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, and just the proximity, like, people aren't good with being all up in people and they're like, yeah, I live here.

• 1:49:36Joe Rogan?

  They live there. And then the other thing is, if you could teach a wrestler how to strike, they have such an advantage. Because you can't take them down and you're worried about them taking you down, so that opens you up to certain shots.

• 1:49:48Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 1:49:49Joe Rogan?

  It happens all the time where guys are worried about a takedown and they get blasted.

• 1:49:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:52Joe Rogan?

  Because they're, they're thinking, this guy could take me down at any moment, and then you get hit. It happens all, it's like another element that they put in that you have to, you have to deal with that they don't have to deal with. They're not worried about you taking them down, you're not even gonna try. So they don't, they can be completely relaxed with their takedown defense, so then they, they, yes, horrible. Being there with an elite wrestler is fucking horrible.

• 1:50:14Speaker 02

  I've even seen like elite wrestlers even in business and stuff like that, you could always, it always feels like they're trying to shoot in on you.

• 1:50:20Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, yeah.

• 1:50:22Speaker 02

  They're looking for the weakness, trying to shoot in, they're like, ah, this is just kinda in you, huh?

• 1:50:25Joe Rogan?

  Well, they also know that they can, you know, you're walking around knowing that you could pick up any guy you want and dump him on his head.

• 1:50:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:31Joe Rogan?

  And most likely, they have no say in it, like, there's nothing they can do.

• 1:50:35Speaker 02

  You don't get a vote.

• 1:50:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man, if you're like, if, if you're around a judo black belt and you're wearing a winter coat, you might as well have a hammer, like, right above your head. Cause that guy's just gonna use that coat and slam you into the concrete, you're basically helpless.

• 1:50:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:51Joe Rogan?

  If you don't know judo and you tangle up with like a real judo black belt, you're gonna fly through the air, and you're gonna land on the ground with all of his weight and your weight on top of you. And even if you don't bang your head, your, your whole body's gonna be out of air. You're not gonna, you don't know how to land, you're gonna land as a

• 1:51:10Speaker 02

  Especially when a guy's controlling the smash.

• 1:51:12Joe Rogan?

  And just gonna shoulder right into you as he lands, boom, you're fucked, you're fucked. So that guy's gonna look at every person like meat.

• 1:51:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:51:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. I, I never realized how effective a gi choke was until Hoise gi choked me. It was my first ever, I was like, yeah, I'll try jujitsu. And he did like a clinic, he's like, come on up for this thing, and my buddy is on me trying to do the thing, and then I thought, Hoise put me in like, the, remember the old thing with like the paper cutters?

• 1:51:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:51:40Speaker 02

  Pretty sure that was what he has for a forearm.

• 1:51:44Joe Rogan?

  Way different.

• 1:51:46Speaker 02

  My big buddy that's my size. Voice is way different than that.

• 1:51:50Joe Rogan?

  It's leverage.

• 1:51:51Speaker 02

  Holy cow, I was.

• 1:51:52Joe Rogan?

  It's tying that shoe.

• 1:51:54Speaker 02

  It was like his armor made with scissors. It was just like, this is amazing. Like, it's so cool to see perfection, right?

• 1:52:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, that's the other thing about coats, jackets, or even a hoodie. You could choke someone so easy with a hoodie.

• 1:52:06Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:52:06Joe Rogan?

  Just get your thumbs in deep and squeeze it tight. Yeah, you could choke the shit out of somebody. If you grabbed somebody with a hoodie and just drew them in, especially like, uh, like I said, a leather coat, like a leather coat or a winter coat. Yeah, you got a good grip.

• 1:52:21Speaker 02

  So what do you gotta wear? What do you gotta wear not?

• 1:52:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. I choked the fuck out of somebody with a jean jacket.

• 1:52:27Speaker 02

  You got top and bottom denim.

• 1:52:28Joe Rogan?

  Jay Leno, you're in trouble. That jean shirt, that thing's durable. You know why they're durable around your neck? You want some shit that tears easy. Like, you want a shirt that already has cuts in it.

• 1:52:39Speaker 02

  You're preloaded.

• 1:52:41Joe Rogan?

  You should like preload the back of your shirt, make some cuts in it just in case someone grabs you. Cause, uh, someone can just grab your t-shirt. There's actually, uh, a Gracie self-defense thing that was on that I was looking at the other day. It was a really smart move where, uh, this woman was showing that you can grab a hold of someone's t-shirt if you're a woman and you're getting attacked by a man. Just grab a hold of their t-shirt and then getting your legs around their neck.

• 1:53:07Speaker 02

  No way.

• 1:53:08Joe Rogan?

  You're jamming your carotid artery, their carotid arteries with your thumb while you're holding a t-shirt and squeeze it with your legs. You could put a guy out, especially a guy that doesn't know what's happening and doesn't know how to protect himself.

• 1:53:20Speaker 02

  I try, I don't know how to do that.

• 1:53:22Joe Rogan?

  That's not it, but it was, um, she was on her back. It was on YouTube.

• 1:53:28Speaker 02

  I tried to move like that one time. I was goofing around with my buddy. We call him the cyborg. He's an absolute just monster of a human. And, uh, he and I were goofing around and I was on my back and like, and so I kinda like got him the little like, like a leg scissors on his head and I grabbed his arm. I'm like, I'm gonna pull his arm off. Like, I'm a big, strong deadlifter. I'm like, I got him. I finally got him. He was. Two ninety, six two, two ninety, all at, looked like Gordon, but like bigger and stronger. And he literally just, I thought he was going out and he kinda went, what? And woke up and he picked me up while I was hanging up and then just slammed me down on the ground. Like, man, screw this.

• 1:54:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you can't do that.

• 1:54:04Speaker 02

  People could do that to people? Like, no, no one could stand up with a person hanging off them and slam them back.

• 1:54:09Joe Rogan?

  You gotta hook his leg. You gotta under.

• 1:54:11Speaker 02

  I didn't, I didn't know that.

• 1:54:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:12Speaker 02

  I just got clobbered.

• 1:54:14Joe Rogan?

  You wanna see the worst, worst version of that ever? Rampage Jackson versus Ricardo Arona? Did you ever see that in Pride? It's the worst case scenario of holding on to like a triangle while a guy picks you up.

• 1:54:27Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:54:28Joe Rogan?

  And Rampage, in his prime, was a fucking machine. He was so powerful. So he takes this dude who's two hundred plus pounds, hoists him over his head and slams him down like a pillow. So look at this. So he's caught in the triangle. Watch how Rampage does this.

• 1:54:44Speaker 02

  Ah, yeah.

• 1:54:46Joe Rogan?

  Bro, that was one of the worst KOs in the history of this sport. I mean, that dude could have, definitely could have died. He probably got the worst trauma.

• 1:54:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:55Joe Rogan?

  The worst brain trauma.

• 1:54:57Speaker 02

  Did he knee himself in the face too?

• 1:54:59Joe Rogan?

  He, I think Rampage collided heads with him as well. So it was probably a bunch of shit.

• 1:55:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, like all kinds. I think right there is.

• 1:55:05Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:55:06Speaker 02

  Squashed his guts and.

• 1:55:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, his shoulder. But Rampage's head went into his. This, this is a crazy slam, man. Look at that. Ba-boom.

• 1:55:16Speaker 02

  Mine was not nearly as devastating, but it was enough to maybe not wanna do that again.

• 1:55:20Joe Rogan?

  That was the worst. And this guy was never the same again. Ricardo Arona was never the same again. That is such a crazy, so that all could have been avoided. Like, that's not what you do. When, when you have a triangle, if you see a guy posturing up, you immediately go under.

• 1:55:36Speaker 02

  Oh, okay, come lock him in.

• 1:55:37Joe Rogan?

  If he's got you in the air, you let go of the fucking triangle. The thing that's holding him in there was him. He's holding himself in there.

• 1:55:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, so he was the pivot point.

• 1:55:45Joe Rogan?

  Cause sometimes you can keep it, right? Sometimes you can keep a triangle and you get slammed and it just makes the triangle tighter. But you gotta know when you're way up in the air. You gotta let go.

• 1:55:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:58Joe Rogan?

  You gotta fully let go. And then try to sprawl, something has to happen, you have to disrupt this motion.

• 1:56:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:05Joe Rogan?

  This thing that's happening.

• 1:56:06Speaker 02

  Turning yourself into an axe.

• 1:56:07Joe Rogan?

  The best way is an underhook. Like as soon as you feel like he starts to stand up, you hook the leg. And worst case scenario, you transition to a leg bar, you let go of the triangle. You you get control of that leg and you use that leg either to try to submit him or sweep him. But you can never hold on to a triangle if the guy's standing up. It's just, look at that fucking concrete.

• 1:56:27Speaker 02

  You're done.

• 1:56:28Joe Rogan?

  You're dead.

• 1:56:29Speaker 02

  You're done.

• 1:56:29Joe Rogan?

  Your head is pulverized.

• 1:56:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. It was bad enough on turf, but I won't do that again.

• 1:56:33Joe Rogan?

  And that was like, you know, there's a little bit of a springiness in the ground because it's in a ring. Still, and there's probably a certain amount of padding on the surface.

• 1:56:43Speaker 02

  How hard are those rings? And I've walked around in them, but they.

• 1:56:46Joe Rogan?

  There's a little bit, like the UFC has a small amount of foam.

• 1:56:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:50Joe Rogan?

  Like a padding and it's it's very important, really. Cause you know, guys' heads bounce off and they get head kicked, they fall down, their heads bounce up to get hit with a big right hand or something, you you bounce your head, so you can't have a real hard floor.

• 1:57:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:05Joe Rogan?

  Uh, but it's not soft enough where you want, you know, John Jones power slamming you.

• 1:57:09Speaker 02

  No, not really any day, no days, actually. That's crazy.

• 1:57:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's a, I mean, to to be one of those people that make a living doing that, that is a wild way to go.

• 1:57:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, what happened where that decided? Like that that was the direction they were gonna go, you're like, you know what? I'm gonna get the crap beat out of me and and dole out a lot of pain. See how this shakes out, or do you just kind of like wake up one day and you're in that world, you're like, ah, I'm pretty good?

• 1:57:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're probably a wild person to begin with and you're probably excited by dangerous scary things. And you're probably pretty good at it, which is why you're fighting professionally.

• 1:57:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:45Joe Rogan?

  You know, so you're probably trained in the gym and you realize you're better than most people. Maybe you have a few amateur fights and fuck a few people up and go, you know, I think I'm the fucking man.

• 1:57:55Speaker 02

  You start believing in it.

• 1:57:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and some of them are right.

• 1:57:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:58Joe Rogan?

  Some of them are John Jones.

• 1:57:59Speaker 02

  They figure that out.

• 1:58:00Joe Rogan?

  Every now and then, every now and then a guy is correct, like that's the way you should have went, yeah.

• 1:58:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:05Joe Rogan?

  Definitely.

• 1:58:06Speaker 02

  Damn.

• 1:58:06Joe Rogan?

  Fucking everybody up, yeah.

• 1:58:08Speaker 02

  Everybody, ballet, it's okay, you were talking about first, so. Tyson.

• 1:58:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's, that's my heavyweight, that's my heavyweight, uh, all-timer.

• 1:58:18Speaker 02

  Jon Jones for UFC?

• 1:58:19Joe Rogan?

  He's the guy that's like, I feel like Tyson in his prime, you have to have him on the Mount Rushmore. You wanna have Jack Dempsey, you wanna have Joe Frazier, you wanna, I mean, it's like a lot of guys who are really good.

• 1:58:31Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:58:32Joe Rogan?

  It's hard to say, like Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano. There's a lot of like, for me, the one that you can't remove is Tyson.

• 1:58:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:58:41Joe Rogan?

  So there's a bunch of other ones, Lennox Lewis in his prime was fucking amazing, Larry Holmes doesn't get the credit he deserves in his prime. There's a lot of guys who are really good heavyweight champions, but you have to have Tyson. Everything else is negotiable.

• 1:58:52Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:58:52Joe Rogan?

  Tyson has to be there, in my, in my mind.

• 1:58:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:55Joe Rogan?

  You know, different people disagree.

• 1:58:57Speaker 02

  Do you watch other sports, besides fighting sports or combat sports?

• 1:59:00Joe Rogan?

  I watch a little football.

• 1:59:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I've been watching football lately, I enjoy it, it's fun.

• 1:59:04Speaker 02

  Pro or college?

• 1:59:05Joe Rogan?

  I've watched high school.

• 1:59:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, right?

• 1:59:07Joe Rogan?

  Uh, I watch, uh, college and I watch, uh, pro. I went to an NFL game, first time this year.

• 1:59:13Speaker 02

  Kinda cool.

• 1:59:14Joe Rogan?

  It was fun, yeah, I saw the Jets play the Cowboys down at Dallas, that was wild. It's wild when you see the scale of it, you know, the scale of it, the size of the arenas.

• 1:59:21Speaker 02

  You've been to many college games before?

• 1:59:23Joe Rogan?

  A few, a few UT games.

• 1:59:25Speaker 02

  Oh, you were at UT, right?

• 1:59:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was fun, I got to shoot the cannon at UT.

• 1:59:28Speaker 02

  Oh, nice. Isn't it crazy, like, have you been keeping up with like the NIL and all the, the, um, transfer portals and how that's changed the landscape a lot?

• 1:59:36Joe Rogan?

  I have not, what is that, what is, what are you saying?

• 1:59:38Speaker 02

  NIL is it, name, image and likeness.

• 1:59:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that, right, the money thing.

• 1:59:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, the money thing is crazy.

• 1:59:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, they should have been paying those fucking kids a long ass time ago. They should retroactively pay all those kids.

• 1:59:49Speaker 02

  That'd be interesting.

• 1:59:50Joe Rogan?

  They should, they should, they were making money off of them, it's crazy how much money they make.

• 1:59:54Speaker 02

  The, the amount of money that's, that's happening now, it's interesting because like, it, it actually, from a couple of my friends that are in that world, it creates a different, um, conversation with the new kids. Cause let's say in high school, they're, you know, they, they're bringing in these recruits and everything like that, and everyone is kissing their butt, hey man, they're like, hey, we really want you to be here, we want you to be a, whatever.

• 2:00:14Joe Rogan?

  Pay me bitch.

• 2:00:15Speaker 02

  And now it's turning into pay me, right? And, but then the other side of the-

• 2:00:18Joe Rogan?

  I want a Corvette.

• 2:00:20Speaker 02

  Oh, that's, dude, I have friends that tell me that there are, there are athletes who, when they're coming for a recruiting trip, say, if there's not a quarter million dollar signing bonus as just a part of the deal, I'm not getting on the plane for the recruiting trip. Wow. An eighteen or seventeen year old kid saying that, that's ballsy.

• 2:00:37Joe Rogan?

  But meanwhile, they're right. You know who else should be doing that? The fucking Olympics. The fucking Olympics. They should all say, fuck you pay me. They really should. That's the greatest scam in all of competitive sports.

• 2:00:50Speaker 02

  Well, now they, they can now. I mean, the Olympic Committee, but originally it was amateur, which was sucked.

• 2:00:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, they can meanwhile, like, what you mean is like the NBA players can represent the United States and play in the Olympics. That's, that's cute. But what about the swimmers? What about the people? What about the gymnasts? What about the boxers? Those fucking, all those people should get paid. Every single one of them.

• 2:01:10Speaker 02

  And only, and no one really cares about Olympic athletes, but every four years. Like, a buddy of mine won the, shoot, the two thousand four shot put Olympics. And he was like, I still have to ask my mom for money. He's like, because no one cares about the Olympics, but every four years.

• 2:01:27Joe Rogan?

  God.

• 2:01:27Speaker 02

  And you're like, you have a degree at Dartmouth, a business degree, and you're the Olympic champion. And, and he was the first athlete to ever eBay himself. So he had a, a shirt that says, this space for rent. And so he, he like, would put himself on the margins, like, kind of like the first N L. It's like, hey, man, I have to make money throwing this steel ball. And I'm thirty something years old, I'm a world champion, and I still have to ask for money every three, every four years, or for three.

• 2:01:55Joe Rogan?

  They used to do that with the UFC, used to be able to have sponsors. So, yeah, anything you want, all like condom depot and your shorts.

• 2:02:03Speaker 02

  Man, how about those old days of like Tank Abbott and all those guys? I at least loved watching all that. When I was in college, we were like, get it, pay for you, and like, check it out.

• 2:02:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man. That's the, the dark days. The early days. No one knew what was going on. No one really knew what was effective. You saw some people were effective one way, and you thought that's the way to go, and like.

• 2:02:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. It was kind of like when you're in high school, when you would go sneak out of the house and go watch Faces of Death.

• 2:02:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:02:27Speaker 02

  And it was like, wow, this is like, this is cool thing. It's like the UFC, like.

• 2:02:30Joe Rogan?

  Kids will never understand how difficult it was to see fucked up things when we were young. It was hard.

• 2:02:35Speaker 02

  Really hard.

• 2:02:36Joe Rogan?

  You had to try hard. You had to like, know somebody.

• 2:02:38Speaker 02

  He had no older kids.

• 2:02:39Joe Rogan?

  Know somebody in the city, someone, someone in some dark warehouse that had a copy of some barnyard Betty video.

• 2:02:45Speaker 02

  It's always weird. Yeah, no, it's just like, yeah, you rode your bike all around and you like find some weird woodpile.

• 2:02:51Joe Rogan?

  I remember when we were kids, uh, someone had a video, I think it was like a barnyard Betty type video. Like when, when them ladies have sex with a bunch of animals.

• 2:02:59Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I haven't seen that.

• 2:03:01Joe Rogan?

  One of us had to watch the door. So if we, if we had a video like that, we're playing in the basement. One of us had to, had to go up to the top of the staircase and wait by the door so that no one could just open the door.

• 2:03:14Speaker 02

  And then they have everyone.

• 2:03:15Joe Rogan?

  They open the door, you would pretend like, oh, I was just coming through the door. You know, so like you hold it out of the door so they can't get in like, oh, sorry, oh, sorry. And then the kids downstairs would hear that and it'd pop the tape out and pretend they're, you know, playing Atari or some shit.

• 2:03:29Speaker 02

  Atari.

• 2:03:31Joe Rogan?

  But you had to pop that fucking tape out quick. Cause if mom caught you down there watching a chick blow a German shepherd.

• 2:03:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, that didn't pan out.

• 2:03:38Joe Rogan?

  And they were like real grainy, like copies of copies. You know, like two guys get together with two VCRs and they record tapes.

• 2:03:46Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Well, the weird, you have to get the.

• 2:03:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you had the cables in the back.

• 2:03:49Speaker 02

  So was that, was that, uh, you, you live in the city growing up?

• 2:03:52Joe Rogan?

  I lived in the suburbs. I lived in Newton, Newton, uh, suburb of Massachusetts.

• 2:03:57Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:03:57Joe Rogan?

  Of Boston.

• 2:03:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:58Speaker 02

  Did you live in New Jersey at one point?

• 2:04:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's where I was born. Yeah.

• 2:04:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, so was my dad.

• 2:04:02Joe Rogan?

  What part?

• 2:04:03Speaker 02

  Uh, Hillside.

• 2:04:04Joe Rogan?

  Have you seen all these UFOs in New Jersey lately?

• 2:04:06Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:04:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like over the last few days, there's been this steady stream, they're not UFOs, they're drones.

• 2:04:13Speaker 02

  Oh, I did see something. I think you posted something about the drones or something, right?

• 2:04:17Joe Rogan?

  I don't think I did.

• 2:04:18Speaker 02

  Somebody did.

• 2:04:19Joe Rogan?

  But a lot of people have been, but they're not moving in any extraordinary way. They look like drones. They, they do. It just looks like a bunch of assholes thinks it's fun.

• 2:04:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:04:28Joe Rogan?

  Put drones up everywhere. But now there's all this like weird mythology attached to it where like the governor was saying sometimes as soon as we put eyes on them, they take off and.

• 2:04:36Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 2:04:38Joe Rogan?

  But if I was a UFO though, like if I was an alien and I knew that a bunch of people are trying to be smart asses.

• 2:04:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:45Joe Rogan?

  And they're putting these drones in the sky, I'd be like, perfect time to visit.

• 2:04:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:04:49Joe Rogan?

  These dipshits won't know the difference.

• 2:04:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:04:51Joe Rogan?

  I have to use my cloaking technology. I could just fly over their head and they're gonna assume this is more nonsense.

• 2:04:57Speaker 02

  Dude, my, uh, one of my buddies, he. Probably weird to even say like he had a friend that sent him a video of some weird stuff going on in the desert, whatever. And it went through and then he showed it to me and then it just disappeared. And he was like, the dude he was talking to said it disappeared, but then like, can you have a file that kind of self? Destructs because it disappeared on his phone too. He's like, uh, how do they take this? They take this off of my phone? I, I don't know. I mean,

• 2:05:30Joe Rogan?

  I've never heard of a file. Jamie, have you ever heard of a video file that self destructs?

• 2:05:34Speaker 02

  Or that someone could,

• 2:05:35Joe Rogan?

  That's like some Mission Impossible shit.

• 2:05:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. So one could chirp into it and like, but it was wild. Like he,

• 2:05:41Joe Rogan?

  I mean that like this, this recording will destroy it.

• 2:05:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 2:05:44Joe Rogan?

  In thirty seconds.

• 2:05:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was wild. I mean, I wondered though, like, could they somehow? Backtrack it where it had been shared?

• 2:05:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, that would be problematic because then they would have access to things on your phone. I think,

• 2:05:58Speaker 02

  I doubt that's ever a case.

• 2:05:59Joe Rogan?

  More likely would be they put like a time. That someone could watch the video into the video where it's valid. It's probably still fixable if someone still has it.

• 2:06:09Speaker 02

  Well, this dude took the video.

• 2:06:12Joe Rogan?

  And did it on his phone?

• 2:06:13Speaker 02

  And did it on his phone and shared it. And then he said, one day he just looked into it, looked in his phone. It was gone.

• 2:06:18Joe Rogan?

  He might be retarded.

• 2:06:20Speaker 02

  Well, that could be the case. But my buddy's like, it's off my phone too. So yeah, I don't know, man.

• 2:06:26Joe Rogan?

  Retarded too. Uh, it's hard to say. It might be real though. I've never heard of that happening though, which I, I would assume that I would have heard of something like that. Especially the amount of people that I talked to that are in the UFO world.

• 2:06:36Speaker 02

  I figured.

• 2:06:38Speaker 03

  Excuse me, a thread on Reddit about a glitch in iOS seventeen that might have made some people's videos randomly disappear. Important ones that they wanted.

• 2:06:47Joe Rogan?

  Right. And then they think it's the UFOs. That makes sense.

• 2:06:51Speaker 03

  Oh yeah. This doesn't say anything about that. This is just like, why is this happening? This happened to anybody else?

• 2:06:55Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Google this. Is it possible? To make a self-destructing video?

• 2:07:04Joe Rogan?

  That only has a certain amount of plays in it.

• 2:07:07Speaker 02

  Well, that'd be cool.

• 2:07:08Joe Rogan?

  Right? Like, maybe you could code it into the video that

• 2:07:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:11Joe Rogan?

  Once this video plays for, you know, whatever, fourteen minutes.

• 2:07:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:07:15Joe Rogan?

  Fourteen minutes of play, it automatically

• 2:07:17Speaker 02

  Seventeen times.

• 2:07:18Joe Rogan?

  Decodes itself. You know, or it randomizes its, its pa- because it's basically just information, right?

• 2:07:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:07:25Joe Rogan?

  Information viewed through a codec.

• 2:07:27Speaker 02

  Does that have like a site, like a cyclical rate, like this many times?

• 2:07:31Joe Rogan?

  Right. Because I know there's certain things like, uh, someone will send you something on Instagram and you can watch the video, but then you can't go back and watch it again.

• 2:07:39Speaker 02

  Right. Or they send you a voice message and then it

• 2:07:42Joe Rogan?

  And it goes away.

• 2:07:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's how Alex Jones likes to roll. He sends you voice messages and they go away.

• 2:07:47Speaker 02

  That's probably a really good idea.

• 2:07:48Joe Rogan?

  For him. Yeah, smart move. Best not to have a paper trail. I don't even know, like, how much of that, um, encrypted messaging stuff works. You know, I know when Tucker was saying that he was organizing that meeting with Putin in Russia and that the government called him up because they knew that he was meeting Putin because they had access to his Signal. And he's like, what? You have access to? I didn't even know someone could get into my Signal. I thought that was encrypted. Nope. Nope, they can get in there. So it's like, how much of this stuff is really? How much of it is really encrypted and protected? And how much would they even let you know? If they can break it, why would they even tell you?

• 2:08:29Speaker 02

  Well, that's the whole point. It's like, it's exactly what you would say that you couldn't do it.

• 2:08:33Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:08:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's

• 2:08:35Joe Rogan?

  But that was, they, they fucking spilled the beans.

• 2:08:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:08:38Joe Rogan?

  So, once they spilled the beans, like, I know a lot of people, including Elon Musk, are questioning Signal.

• 2:08:42Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:08:43Joe Rogan?

  So I talked to someone in the government.

• 2:08:46Joe Rogan?

  And I said, uh, what, can you handle Signal? Like, how, how does someone, as, as long as the state actor knows the phone number, was the answer. So all they have to do is know your phone number. So if they know your phone number and you have Signal.

• 2:09:01Speaker 02

  Game over, boys.

• 2:09:02Joe Rogan?

  If you're, you know, I mean, I'm sure it's probably, they probably need to ask somebody if they can do it. It's probably not something they can just do. But if, if an agent is like, Bert Soren's acting a little fucking fishy. Let's see what he's signaling to his friends.

• 2:09:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, and The opportunity to just decide subjectively if that's a thing is.

• 2:09:19Joe Rogan?

  Right. And then whatever you carry in your notes and whatever is in your folders or your photos.

• 2:09:26Speaker 02

  They're going to all kinds of ballistics.

• 2:09:28Joe Rogan?

  For sure. They've got all these.

• 2:09:29Speaker 02

  It's kind of weird crap. They're going to know where my deer stands are and everything.

• 2:09:33Joe Rogan?

  You got dick pics? They got dick pics.

• 2:09:35Speaker 02

  All of it.

• 2:09:35Joe Rogan?

  They have your dick pics. It's like, there's no way around that anymore. I think that's, that's a myth. The idea that somehow or another you could have some sort of a protection from that happening today.

• 2:09:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:49Joe Rogan?

  Are you making phone calls? You are. Okay. Are you on a network? Are you on wifi? Are you like, I think you're fucked.

• 2:09:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, you would have to think so.

• 2:09:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:58Speaker 02

  You'd have to think there's enough backdoors and alleged probable causes or however someone wants to spin it that.

• 2:10:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's also how they got Huawei banned from the United States. Cause I remember, you know, I'm a bit of a phone nerd and back in the day Huawei had the best phones. They, their phones were like way more advanced than some of the American Android phones that were coming out. Yeah, man. They had incredible cameras and like big battery life and like crazy zoom possibilities. And I was looking to get this new Huawei phone.

• 2:10:32Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:10:32Joe Rogan?

  And then Huawei got banned from the United States. And I was like, what?

• 2:10:35Speaker 02

  Goes back to anything that's banned, man. Makes you really start questioning.

• 2:10:39Joe Rogan?

  It does, but when they kind of all agree, there was very little pushback that there was real security problems with these phones. And not just phones, but network devices, routers, different, different components that had third-party entrance. So it was, they had the capability of accessing information that's being transferred back and forth on a network through these routers. And then I think people are like, hey, why is that in there?

• 2:11:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:11:13Joe Rogan?

  And then they realize, oh, the Chinese government is in complete cahoots with Huawei. Like, if you own a company like Huawei, you're down with the government. You have to be. That's how you stay in business.

• 2:11:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:11:23Joe Rogan?

  You, you can't be some rebel out there operating on your own, making billions of dollars, creating, you know.

• 2:11:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, you had Mike Ben. Was it Ben's on? That was a wonderful podcast, by the way.

• 2:11:34Joe Rogan?

  Holy crap.

• 2:11:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's.

• 2:11:36Joe Rogan?

  Bi-opening.

• 2:11:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, spun that past a couple of my, my buddies. Actually, it was the same buddy that gave me the Yuri Bezmenov video that I gave you.

• 2:11:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that fucking video's changed my mind.

• 2:11:47Speaker 02

  Right, yeah.

• 2:11:48Joe Rogan?

  When you first sent me that, you're the first guy, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, because we played that on this podcast like thirty times.

• 2:11:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, we were at your house at gym.

• 2:11:55Joe Rogan?

  When you played me that, I was like, holy shit, this is exactly what happened.

• 2:12:00Speaker 02

  Yep, I gave it to Jack Carr and Evan Hafer, too.

• 2:12:03Joe Rogan?

  There's no way that was a coincidence. Like, he just guessed it.

• 2:12:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:12:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:07Speaker 02

  Right, you're like, I'm gonna put this next baseball into the, you know, the third aisle up the thing and crack. Wow, that was cool.

• 2:12:15Joe Rogan?

  Fourth seat from the left.

• 2:12:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're like, go back and look. So buddy mine that's in that world, he gave that to me four or five years ago. He told me, he's like, this keeps getting deleted. And he kinda gives me the whole briefing and a lot of stuff.

• 2:12:27Joe Rogan?

  Getting deleted from where?

• 2:12:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, off YouTube. He's like, they keep taking it down.

• 2:12:29Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:12:29Speaker 02

  I think honestly, prior to you and Evan and Jack and guys like that, it was not easy to find. I think you guys just changed the algorithm on it enough.

• 2:12:39Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:12:40Speaker 02

  Which is pretty neat.

• 2:12:41Joe Rogan?

  But that doesn't make any sense, because I'm pretty sure we just found it online. We just found it on YouTube.

• 2:12:45Speaker 02

  He told me a multiple, multiple times, he's like, they've taken this down often.

• 2:12:51Joe Rogan?

  Why would someone take it down?

• 2:12:52Speaker 02

  I'm not sure. But I know some of my buddies that were in the teams and stuff like that, they were like, oh, I remember seeing this back in ninety-five when I went through BUDs. Or when I got out, maybe it was Green Team, but they were in that early, early days. Like, oh, I hadn't seen this video forever. And then they kinda watched it, they were like, oh, my gosh, like, you're kinda getting all the background of that. But he's, he was giving me, I can't remember where I was going with this, but he was giving me some insight, oh, about the Bens. And it was interesting. And I said, I was like, hey, did you check this out? And he's like, yeah. He's like, sounds like he's read a couple of my briefings. I was like, interesting, like.

• 2:13:23Joe Rogan?

  Mike Benz is.

• 2:13:24Speaker 02

  Some weird stuff going on.

• 2:13:25Joe Rogan?

  Got crazy recall, too.

• 2:13:27Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 2:13:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he just, no notes, just spitting out all that information right off the top of his head.

• 2:13:33Speaker 02

  That's, you've had some.

• 2:13:36Speaker 02

  Amazingly impactful guests on here like I I I'm not trying to blow you up but like I'm sure you know the impact that you've had on the world, which is probably really wild.

• 2:13:46Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty weird.

• 2:13:47Speaker 02

  Pretty weird, right?

• 2:13:48Joe Rogan?

  Pretty weird that I didn't even try. That's the weird part.

• 2:13:50Speaker 02

  Best part about it, right?

• 2:13:51Joe Rogan?

  That's the weirdest part. It was all an accident. It's like 100% like I just felt like this is what I should do. I should uh start a podcast and then I should keep doing it. Even when it was totally non-profitable for like five years, I was like, I like doing it. Let's just keep doing it.

• 2:14:06Speaker 02

  That's how all the good stuff works.

• 2:14:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:08Speaker 02

  It's like you're passionate about it. I want to go do this thing. You know Evan and I've talked. He's like, hey, I make brown, I make brown water. And I'm like, I make steel rectangles. This is weird.

• 2:14:19Speaker 02

  Like, I don't know why we decided to do it.

• 2:14:21Joe Rogan?

  But once you figure out a thing that you're really passionate about, then you'll become successful if you just keep following it.

• 2:14:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:28Joe Rogan?

  But the thing about the podcast thing was um I managed to keep the same spirit of just doing what I enjoy doing.

• 2:14:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:14:35Joe Rogan?

  Like if I could just have conversations with people with no phones and sit and especially if I could get a scientist to sit near and explain things to me for three hours, I would have always been interested in doing that. But I just, it's, you can't do that. They won't do it.

• 2:14:49Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 2:14:50Joe Rogan?

  You have to become friends with them and you can only be friends with so many of them, you know, and then you have to fly to them and sit down with them.

• 2:14:56Speaker 02

  Spend all this time and then you're like, you create a honey, a honey trap here. Then you're like, hey, I'll bring everyone here and talk to them.

• 2:15:01Joe Rogan?

  As long as you can guarantee other people are gonna listen, people want to talk about anything, which is really weird. It's wild. Like, that's the way you can guarantee that you can get them to come as long as they're gonna, other people are gonna hear it.

• 2:15:12Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:15:12Joe Rogan?

  So then they can sell books and.

• 2:15:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, the whole deal.

• 2:15:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and that's great.

• 2:15:16Speaker 02

  But it's, it's just genius that I just appreciate the illumination on varied uh ideas. Like, I love that there's people on the right, the people from left, people that like this, hate this, like. That is so refreshing.

• 2:15:32Joe Rogan?

  It's good for all of us.

• 2:15:33Speaker 02

  It is.

• 2:15:34Joe Rogan?

  It's good to hear people even that you don't agree with.

• 2:15:36Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 2:15:37Joe Rogan?

  As long as they're nice. As long as they're, that's my, I don't want to argue with anybody and get in fucking screaming matches. There's some people that are, they're, like we were talking about earlier, that they, that's how they get engagement by constantly getting in these stu- That's why they have those shows like Pierce Morgan likes to do that, whereas like four people on the show and they all yell over each other and they're all remote, so no one's there. It's like, ugh.

• 2:15:58Speaker 02

  That sounds horrible.

• 2:15:59Joe Rogan?

  It's horrible. I don't, you don't find out nothing. If you could sit down with someone, even if you disagree with them and just let them talk, you could have a conversation. You know, find out why they think the way they do. You don't have to fight them on it. Just like, ask them, what is it about this thing?

• 2:16:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, candid and curious, right? Candid as in, I'll actually tell you what I think and curious, I'll actually care what you think.

• 2:16:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and I always try to think the way they think. If someone's talking to me about a certain thing, like I will, you know, people, oh, you'll agree with anybody. I'm like, I kind of will if I can try to see things through your head and I'll try to steel man it for you. Like, if someone is saying something and I go, okay, so you're saying that, but if it's preposterous, I'll stop it. I'll stop it and go, that doesn't make any sense because of this. Like, I can see that you haven't thought this through because, or you didn't know about that. Or, you know, how could you say this when this is possible? Like, how do you, how do you manage those two things?

• 2:17:00Speaker 02

  And so, few people will push back with kind of love, right? Because disagreement doesn't have to mean dismissal.

• 2:17:06Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:17:07Speaker 02

  And, and when it does, that's the opposite of love and respect. It's like, no, I don't like you. Well, that's canceling.

• 2:17:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, especially if people get shouty and arguey, you know, it's like, there's a way to do it where you can just talk about stuff and not be dismissive of someone. I mean, I see so many people do it where they, they have their opinion, like Bill Maher likes to do that, like dismiss something, someone saying like instantaneously as they're in the middle of explaining it. It's like, it's kind of a sparring thing, you know, you're, you're trying to win rather than trying to just have a conversation.

• 2:17:37Speaker 02

  Try to see if the other guy flinches.

• 2:17:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're shutting them down. You're shutting down things you think are you're calling bullshit. It's also a lack of patience, right?

• 2:17:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:17:45Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes you have you have to have patience to let someone express themselves fully before you disagree, which is really important, because sometimes someone will begin to express themselves and I disagree. But then they'll take it around and give me some nuance and some understanding of how they came to their their opinion. Then I'll go, okay. Okay, so I see I see how you.

• 2:18:07Speaker 02

  At least I see the track.

• 2:18:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and so it's more important for you for this than it is to acknowledge that. And they're like, yes, I'm like, okay, I understand. So when did you decide that that was and then and then I I want to go like, I want to know, are you a real thinker? Or are you a person who has adopted a conglomeration of ideas that comes along with an ideology? So there's there's really smart people that have done that, and they might not even know they've done that until you corner them.

• 2:18:34Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 2:18:35Joe Rogan?

  And then you find like.

• 2:18:37Speaker 02

  Where did it come? Where's the origin?

• 2:18:38Joe Rogan?

  Trans kids. There's like occasionally, you know, there's a subject like make sense of this. You make sense of this.

• 2:18:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, follow it upstream to the source and then go.

• 2:18:45Joe Rogan?

  Make sense of this and let's acknowledge what a kid is. You I want I want to know how vulnerable you think children are. First of all, I want to know, do you have any? Second of all, I want to know how malleable and suggestible, like how open to suggestion are children in your eyes? I want to know how do you think kids should be able to get tattoos? Do you think kids should be able to get married at five? Do you think kids should? You know what I'm saying?

• 2:19:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:09Joe Rogan?

  Do you think they should be? What do you think that they can control and not control? Do you even understand children? Or are you sacrificing them and their future? These kids that you don't even know for your ideology, for your ideological position that's like cult like. And then you you find that out about people that think they're intelligent until they're confronted with these like insurmountable ethical dilemmas.

• 2:19:35Speaker 02

  Right, a similar one to let's say someone who eats meat but hates hunting.

• 2:19:39Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:19:39Speaker 02

  You're like, you could hate, you you can not want to do it.

• 2:19:42Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:19:42Speaker 02

  But there's still a killing and a murder at some point, and you could either be a part of that or just outsource it.

• 2:19:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:49Speaker 02

  And be okay with it.

• 2:19:50Joe Rogan?

  It's also, that's a cultural thing too, right? Like, there's a lot of people in the UK that don't like hunting.

• 2:19:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:55Joe Rogan?

  And they eat meat. And, you know, they'll tell you. Like, my wife was having a conversation, she was at a dinner with a bunch of people, and I was out hunting. And this guy was eating a steak, he's like, "That's deplorable." She's like, "What do you, where do you think that came from?"

• 2:20:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:20:09Joe Rogan?

  "This is so stupid." Like, you're literally carving a steak while you're saying it's deplorable that someone's out hunting. Like, we eat those animals.

• 2:20:16Speaker 02

  And what is generally, and I've had this conversation a number of times as well. And generally, if folks are candid, curious, and respectful, you could kind of, kind of bring them around, right?

• 2:20:25Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:20:26Speaker 02

  Have you had someone that really just dug their heels in, or like, nah?

• 2:20:29Joe Rogan?

  No, never really in person.

• 2:20:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:20:31Joe Rogan?

  Uh, online, they'll dig their heels in till the cows come home. But I feel like most people, this is why talking online sucks.

• 2:20:38Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:20:39Joe Rogan?

  Most people are good people, I really believe that. Even if they're like trapped in their bullshit and wrapped up in their own head, and most people want to be...

• 2:20:48Speaker 02

  If given the chance to be good people.

• 2:20:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and you can kind of help them along, be a good person, you can kind of help them along. They help each other along, you know, like, part of an argument is you. You know, like, it's, it's, I know that there's arguments that I've been in in my life that I could have avoided. If I was more skillful with conversation. And I know that I have avoided a lot of arguments, especially now as a smarter person than I was when I was younger. I'm better at it. I'm better at just like, not biting on some bullshit passive-aggressive stupid thing that some guy says. When I was young, if someone got passive-aggressive with me, I was like, "Hey, fuck you."

• 2:21:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21:26Joe Rogan?

  Like, like, "Let's just go to ten."

• 2:21:28Speaker 02

  And where's that going?

• 2:21:28Joe Rogan?

  "Let's just go to ten."

• 2:21:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21:30Joe Rogan?

  "I don't like how you're talking." Like, "I'm not gonna sit here at this stupid party and pretend you're not a cunt." And, you know, there's been many times where, you know, I got dragged out of a situation before things got really... Yeah, because I'm like, "Let's just go to ten." "You're a piece of shit." Like, "I know what you are."

• 2:21:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:21:46Joe Rogan?

  "You're just a shitty person that likes to throw jabs at people when I'm just trying to be nice."

• 2:21:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, and you also know in your pocket, you know a lot of physical things that could be advantageous.

• 2:21:55Joe Rogan?

  That definitely helps. But it also, it helps that I know that I'm being nice. So if I'm nice to you and you're being a cunt... To me and I'm trying to be nice to you again. You're just thinking that you can just get away with this and that's when I like to go, hey, fuck you. And you see that look in their face like, oh no. Yeah, oh no, you've gone into fuck you land.

• 2:22:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, now we're here.

• 2:22:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and by the way, emotional pain is something that people think they can get a free slap. They think they could just get off on you and hit you with emotional pain like if we're playing this, let's hurt each other game. How about I just fuck you up?

• 2:22:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:29Joe Rogan?

  Like, how about that? How about I just decide, I'll spend the night in jail?

• 2:22:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:33Joe Rogan?

  How about that? How about fuck you? You know, because like that's what you're doing emotionally.

• 2:22:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:22:38Joe Rogan?

  You're trying to create.

• 2:22:39Speaker 02

  Be abusive.

• 2:22:40Joe Rogan?

  Pain, you're you're absolutely being abusive.

• 2:22:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:22:42Joe Rogan?

  And some people make a habit out of like demeaning people to their face. And they think they can get away with it and it's a really shitty practice.

• 2:22:50Speaker 02

  I I do appreciate the people who physically put an end to that. Like, I've never, I've never really been like, yeah, you know, I'll, I'll do what I need to do, right? But I'm never been like, ah, I'm gonna like, like. Had a couple of days I'm not proud of because I I kind of went ahead and hit that throttle.

• 2:23:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, most of the time it's avoidable.

• 2:23:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, but in some days, unfortunately, you're not in an emotional state and sometimes it is avoidable and you don't avoid.

• 2:23:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the thing.

• 2:23:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:17Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes it is avoidable, I'm so much better at that now.

• 2:23:21Speaker 02

  I've expressed my.

• 2:23:22Joe Rogan?

  Twenty five, I had no, I didn't understand that you don't have to do this.

• 2:23:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've I've expressed my emotional immaturity at times. I'm like, yeah, I could really taken that one a different way. You you're thankful, you're like, man, I'm glad that one really didn't go sideways because that could have.

• 2:23:36Joe Rogan?

  It's also like it could go terrible and someone could get murdered. I mean, things happen and people can't believe what they did. And then all of a sudden someone's dead. That happens every day in America.

• 2:23:46Speaker 02

  Oh, I've I've had a couple of close ones that you just kind of everyone walks away and it's like, whoo. And because you could like, it's like, uh, what was that movie like? Sherlock Holmes, remember when he could see the situations and he like pauses it and you can see like, and when you like pauses and you're like, this would happen, this would happen, this would happen. And then you're like, oh, there's a dead guy.

• 2:24:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:05Speaker 02

  You back it up, you're like, glad that didn't happen. Okay, bye, I'm gone.

• 2:24:09Joe Rogan?

  Bye. Just walk away. It's like, you have to learn that. And the problem with young guys is, first of all, their brain's not fully formed. They're impulsive. They do wild things. And then if they feel like they're being slighted, they feel like to be a man, because they want to be a man, you have to do something about it.

• 2:24:26Speaker 02

  Well, it's the number one question every man has. Every man has the same question. Am I, am I good enough?

• 2:24:32Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:24:33Speaker 02

  That's the wounding, right?

• 2:24:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:24:34Speaker 02

  And every woman goes, her question is,

• 2:24:37Joe Rogan?

  Am I hot enough?

• 2:24:37Speaker 02

  Do you see me? That's exactly it. Do you see me? And a man says, am I good enough? That's why there's sport. That's why there's fighting. That's why people try to make money. That's why they try to flex on each other. It's the little boy inside all of us going, am I good enough?

• 2:24:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And then there's the, the people that get past that, and then it becomes this ultimate challenge. Like the, the ultimate challenge of life is the most difficult puzzle to solve.

• 2:25:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:25:02Joe Rogan?

  And you can solve it above and beyond all these other psychopaths. So you're competing with all these other people that are very much like you, but what separates you from them is the work that you put in.

• 2:25:14Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:25:14Joe Rogan?

  Discipline, drive, mindset, whatever, whatever it is that you can find that gives you that edge to pull ahead with all the, from all these other people that are very, very competitive as well, doing the same thing. And then with men, they feed off each other in those environments.

• 2:25:27Speaker 02

  They feed off.

• 2:25:27Joe Rogan?

  Like a West Side Barbell.

• 2:25:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25:29Joe Rogan?

  Kronk Gym.

• 2:25:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then when you're, you're wondering that, and then when someone questions it, and publicly questions it in front of your boys or front of whatever, it's like, no, I'll show you I'm good enough. I'll do something stupid right now and end up in jail.

• 2:25:42Joe Rogan?

  Especially someone who's just a walking dead man with a mouth. You know, like someone who knows they can't defend themselves. And so they just feel comfortable doing that publicly because they think they're being protected by society, like.

• 2:25:52Speaker 02

  That's the worst.

• 2:25:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, this, this actual false state of security. Like, man, if we're in the jungle right now, you wouldn't be doing that.

• 2:26:00Joe Rogan?

  Or when women think they can do it. When women get mouthy with men, like, don't do, uh. When I was, I think I was sixteen or seventeen years old, I was in high school and there was this kid that moved into the neighborhood. He came from Iran and his family had a lot of money. And so they had this, I think it was in Beacon Hill, I forget where it was, but it was a really nice neighborhood. And this kid had this giant fucking house on this huge lawn, so he decided to have a party.

• 2:26:27Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 2:26:27Joe Rogan?

  So this is how he's gonna make friends, he just moved here from another country, right?

• 2:26:30Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:26:31Joe Rogan?

  So he has a party and kids from every fucking high school came to this party. And I was at the party with a bunch of my friends and I was walking up the staircase, I'll never forget this. So I'm walking up the staircase and then, you know, so it's like right here in front of me while this is going down. I can't remember what the girl did. She either slapped this guy or she threw a drink in his face. I can't remember which one it was.

• 2:26:56Speaker 02

  Some offense.

• 2:26:57Joe Rogan?

  But I remember he uncorked a right hand like Roberto Duran. This dude threw a right hand like he knew how to punch. Cause I knew how to punch, so I watched him like, oh, good mechanics.

• 2:27:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, right, right, really, really unloaded.

• 2:27:12Joe Rogan?

  This, just, blap! Just hit her on the chin, her head snaps back, a guy catches her, she goes out and then it's bedlam. It's bedlam, I mean, people are fighting left and right, there's people fighting in the stairwell. I had to run out, there's piles of guys out on the lawn, it spread like a disease. It was like within thirty seconds.

• 2:27:36Speaker 02

  How did you decide to hit this guy because of that?

• 2:27:38Joe Rogan?

  It was screaming and then screaming started people screaming at the people screaming, which people were fighting the people that were screaming. It was the wildest thing, it was like a disease ran through the house like that, like World War Z where everybody's like, ah! And I, I managed to not have any fights, a couple of my friends got in fights.

• 2:27:55Speaker 02

  Like one of the better fighters there, you managed not to have fights.

• 2:27:58Joe Rogan?

  But I was never interested in street fighting, I'm like, let me get out of here, I know what this is, this is fucking, I understand danger. So I got out there and, uh, but I'll never forget that, that girl thought she could hit that guy or do whatever she did, I forget what she thought she. I wish I could remember.

• 2:28:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, quality kinda.

• 2:28:13Joe Rogan?

  All I remember, cause it's like thirty. How many years ago was that? Forty years ago?

• 2:28:17Speaker 02

  That's a while ago.

• 2:28:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, it's forty years ago. Yeah. So it was like this. Blap! I mean, just fucking, I'll never forget that, man. Horrible to laugh at it because she forgot a lot of things that night. She definitely forgot.

• 2:28:30Speaker 02

  She might be listening to podcasts now.

• 2:28:31Joe Rogan?

  The third grade. Yeah, she was probably like, "That's me, my... I still can't talk." Like, for sure got a broken face. I mean, he hit her so hard and her head snapped back. Just snap, like she had no idea she was gonna get punched by a big guy who knew how to punch. But he was like, "Hey, fuck you." Like, he just got the wrong guy with like three millers in him. And he just uncorked one.

• 2:28:53Speaker 02

  Probably not the first time that guy.

• 2:28:54Joe Rogan?

  Probably not the first guy he hit a chick. Cause the way he did it was like, he didn't slap her. You know, he didn't slap her.

• 2:29:00Speaker 02

  That's a scary one.

• 2:29:01Joe Rogan?

  He could've just slapped her or pushed her or something. You didn't have to KO her. But, but there's women that think that they can just go up to a guy and yell because they're protected by society. There's fucking psychos out there.

• 2:29:14Speaker 02

  It just goes back to be nice.

• 2:29:16Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:29:16Speaker 02

  Be nice, man. Like, be nice.

• 2:29:18Joe Rogan?

  But it's like, "You motherfucker, I'll fucking ki- I'll fucking kill you." Like, "Hey, hey, hey, hey."

• 2:29:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:24Joe Rogan?

  Hey.

• 2:29:25Speaker 02

  I've been backed up a couple of times with the bump, bump, bumps on the chest and it's like, "All right, all right, all right." Then you're like backed against a car like at a tailgate or something, you're like...

• 2:29:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:36Joe Rogan?

  And when you say, "Don't touch me," and it gets, it gets hot and then it's like, "They might just touch you because you said, 'Don't touch me.'" And like, "I'm telling you, don't touch me," and then you have to touch them. And then, "Oh, you're assaulting me." Like, "No, no, no, you're still talking, so I haven't assaulted you." Like, "If I assaulted you, this would be over super quick."

• 2:29:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:29:55Joe Rogan?

  So let's not do that.

• 2:29:56Speaker 02

  Yep. That happened to me, uh, in DC. Uh, I was walking with my wife and, uh, it's during when everything was popping off. Big, big time. Big, big time.

• 2:30:07Joe Rogan?

  Things, people got real mouthy then.

• 2:30:08Speaker 02

  Real, real. And we're walking through and of course, you know, truth be told, I'm walking through, I'm, my wife looks like a Viking also. And we're walking through DC during the height of everything. Height of everything. No mask, cause I'm outside and I'm a sovereign individual and screw that.

• 2:30:26Speaker 02

  And a whole chattering group of a certain population of, uh...

• 2:30:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, it's Antifa. And so they're, and I was like, and I just said, I'm not gonna stop walking. Please move out of my way. You know, F you, F this, F that, and you just.

• 2:30:42Joe Rogan?

  Meanwhile, you did nothing.

• 2:30:43Speaker 02

  I, I literally was walking across and they were forty yards from me and ran across the street to come yell at me like a bark. They ever seen like a, like a bear or a wild borg, it's like bayed by dogs and they're all like.

• 2:30:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:56Speaker 02

  And we're just walking and it's like, okay, please. And we were trying to get to my hotel and there's a cop because they boarded everything off. Cause everything was crazy. It was like the four big groups were all doing the deal that weekend. And I was like, my hotel's right there. Sorry. I said, sir, do you think I really want to deal with this? Like, like in there, everyone has their cameras out because they're like, big guy's gonna smoke somebody, right? And there's a whole deal. And then finally, the one, actually one of them was chirping at me. She fell down and tripped over something and I helped her up because that's what you do. And then get your hands off. It's like, okay, man, can I please get to my, like, this is a thing. So. And then they played music all night till seven in the morning, right outside of our hotel, just to make sure that no one slept. It was, it was a wonderful time.

• 2:31:40Joe Rogan?

  Fun times.

• 2:31:40Speaker 02

  It was a great time.

• 2:31:41Joe Rogan?

  Whatever happened to Law and Order? Why do people think that was a good thing? There were so many goofy motherfuckers that didn't want people mad at them. So they started yelling out, defund the police. They started getting on board with it. Even Kamala Harris posted, defund the police, like, I mean, defund the police on, on Twitter.

• 2:31:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, when is it a good idea ever to, like, kind of cancel anyone? Like, there's like, like, besides, like, someone that hurts children. Like, after that, kind of do what you want to do, right?

• 2:32:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's not even a canceling thing. That was just people had decided that there was an enemy out there. I, I say this, that like protests are too much like war. You're on the ground and you're marching around with a bunch of people yelling, you all have a cause and you're all moving as one group. It's too much like war. I think there's some, there's triggers. That's why mob mentality exists. Because you gotta be able to kill people if some shit's going down, if you're at war.

• 2:32:31Speaker 02

  Because it escalates.

• 2:32:32Joe Rogan?

  Right. There's a mode that people snap into. It's called mob mentality. Why does it exist? It exists because at certain points in history, we have gone to war. With other groups of people on this, on the ground. And I think that's built into your psyche.

• 2:32:47Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:32:47Joe Rogan?

  And I think it's just like catching a fish. You know how you catch a fish? Like if no one's ever caught a fish before, you catch it like, oh, you get so excited. I think it's because your brain is hardwired to know that that fish is gonna feed you.

• 2:32:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:32:58Joe Rogan?

  And that's why it's exciting. And you're hardwired to know that if you're yelling and you meet an opposing group, those are the bad people, and you're going, looking for people that are opposing groups. Cause you've got power. There's a bunch of them. Yeah, you're a bunch of deepies. You're rolling deep. And you find that fucking white guy with the beard and you're like, he's the enemy.

• 2:33:17Speaker 02

  It was wild. It was wild.

• 2:33:19Joe Rogan?

  But it was like an open door to this psyche that, that, that has always existed. That mob mentality has always been a thing. And if you open that door and you allow it to stay open and you don't do something to close it with law and order, you have fucking madness. You have madness. And we had that. We had that on the streets. In certain places in this country, for months at a time, it was fucking chaotic.

• 2:33:42Speaker 02

  Bonkers. Yeah, it was actually pretty cool in my, and I'm gonna say none of that world was cool. But during my, uh, in my town, they, they started burning stuff and everything like that. And my sheriff, he's a, he's a friend of mine. He's like, yeah, we shut that down fast. I was like, what happened? He's like, someone threw a brick. I got center mass with a, with a beanbag. Period. First time. And I go, how long did that take? He goes, we haven't had a problem since. I was like, perfect. He's like, you know.

• 2:34:07Joe Rogan?

  And that's kind. It's being kind. Using the beanbag is being kind.

• 2:34:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, a severe punishment, really fast, generally trains people pretty quickly. And then it's like, alright, our town went back to being cool. Everyone's fine.

• 2:34:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's, there's no reason for it. And it was just, it's crazy how quickly it all boiled over. And the, it was all these events happening together at the same time, right? The COVID, the lockdowns, the anger. Everybody got real weird because everyone was just locked in their home for months at a time. And then the George Floyd thing and the public outrage enough. And the people were on the street and then people were encouraging it and funding it. There was people that was, there were certain groups that were encouraging it, organizing it and funding it. And they got money from people to do it. And they, they had pallets of bricks that were conveniently located on the street. All that stuff's real.

• 2:34:53Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, we we we saw it. It was it was remarkable to see it in real time.

• 2:34:58Joe Rogan?

  That's why it's crazy having a guy like Mike Benz layout how it all is going down. And you think, oh, it's all organic. People are fed up. Uh-uh. No, no, there's a bunch of people that are profiting off of this.

• 2:35:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:35:11Joe Rogan?

  They want this to take place. They want to be able to push new laws through. They want to be able to grip tighter.

• 2:35:17Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:35:17Joe Rogan?

  Tighter control on censorship, tighter. The social media companies have to pay. They're responsible for this. No, no, no, you fucking funded it. You fucking funded it with tax money that was filtered through NGOs, you cocksuckers. You guys are a part of this. You want this to happen.

• 2:35:34Speaker 02

  Right. That's where everyone's just like, everyone just pause.

• 2:35:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:37Speaker 02

  Just like pump the brakes. If it feels like, uh, what was that song by Iron Maiden? I can't remember, but it speeds up at the end.

• 2:35:48Speaker 02

  That's what it felt like the last four years, especially during 2020. I was like, no, this is the the end of like paranoid or whatever it was. And it just sped up and you're like, oh, is this how the end of the story goes? Like as in humanity?

• 2:35:59Joe Rogan?

  It could be.

• 2:36:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:36:01Joe Rogan?

  I think we got a taste of what's possible, but I also think, I think it was horrible. Anybody who lost someone, anybody where where it all went down, I think it was horrible. Don't get me wrong. But I also think we're lucky.

• 2:36:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:36:13Joe Rogan?

  Because we got to see it. It's horrible if you lost your business. It's horrible if you you got forced to get vaccinated. It's horrible. All those things are horrible. But we got to see how many people are fucking cowards. We got to see how many people fold as soon as there are any sort of external pressure from either they're surrounded or how many people got forced into it by their job. We got to see that. And we got to see how there are unscrupulous groups in power that will coerce people to do things that are not scientific, they're not ethical, they're not moral, if they can profit off of it. And we got to see that, that they will use you as a human fucking ATM machine.

• 2:36:52Joe Rogan?

  And they will they will figure out a way to maximize their profits and maximize their control. So now we know. So now we know. So now you can't think that the world is some. Sort of nineteen fifty's movie where the good guys wear the white hats and the bad guys wear the black hats. You gotta realize like there's a lot of human interest shit going on. And humans have a certain interest in getting control over money and over people and they do it whenever they can. And if they can do it through the guise of being progressive and kind. Or if they can do it through the guise of, you know, whatever, pull yourself up by your bootstraps like whatever it is.

• 2:37:28Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:37:28Joe Rogan?

  They find a way to to rationalize these very specific patterns of behavior. That the founding fathers of this country fought against when they created the Bill of Rights and they created the Constitution. They did all that knowing that these human nature, these human instincts exist.

• 2:37:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, it'll keep flow charting back down to this eventually and it's like, hold on, people are people and people are gonna do people stuff.

• 2:37:53Joe Rogan?

  And every time they pass something like the Patriot Act or the Patriot Act two, they just chip away at that. They're chipping away at that and it's their job to do that in their mind.

• 2:38:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:38:02Joe Rogan?

  It's it shouldn't be because there's not enough oversight of them. That's the problem. It's like, this is the whole concept of the deep state. Which was always like such a stupid conspiracy theory for the longest time. People, oh, you worried about the deep state? Until you are, until you're like, oh my God, it's real. Oh my God. Uh, how did that kid get on that roof?

• 2:38:22Speaker 02

  Come on.

• 2:38:23Joe Rogan?

  How did, how did he walk around with a fucking rangefinder like we were talking about before rangefinders? Yeah, that's what he had. That's why you use those folks for fucking shooting people.

• 2:38:31Speaker 02

  He's not golfing.

• 2:38:32Joe Rogan?

  The whole thing was nuts. The whole thing was nuts and we were all just sitting there going, oh, the deep state's real. Like, oh, someone, someone did something here. How did his apartment get professionally scrubbed? Is there, are there a team of people that are actually organizing something like this? Has this happened before? Why won't they release the Kennedy files? He died, how many fucking years ago? Nineteen sixty-three?

• 2:38:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:38:58Joe Rogan?

  How, why don't, that's sixty-one years ago. How about you release that?

• 2:39:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe like, or.

• 2:39:05Joe Rogan?

  Hey, how about you guys release that?

• 2:39:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, or there's maybe a reason?

• 2:39:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:10Speaker 02

  Do you think that stuff's good? I mean, do you think?

• 2:39:12Joe Rogan?

  Sixty-one years is not a lot of time, though. That's a good point. Like, maybe we should wait another sixty.

• 2:39:16Speaker 02

  Makes makes sense, right?

• 2:39:18Joe Rogan?

  People aren't ready yet. They're not ready yet.

• 2:39:21Speaker 02

  I've thought about that a lot. I, I wanna know, right? I wanna see behind all the scenes. I wanna see that, I wanna see the Epstein's, the Diddy's, the, the, the.

• 2:39:30Joe Rogan?

  Cash Patel says first day, day one.

• 2:39:32Speaker 02

  Let's go.

• 2:39:33Joe Rogan?

  That's what he says.

• 2:39:33Speaker 02

  Let's see it.

• 2:39:34Joe Rogan?

  If they get him in there.

• 2:39:36Speaker 02

  What a stud, right?

• 2:39:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, man. That's the, if you are the deep state, you know what he said he wanted to do? He would close Langley and make it a museum of the deep state.

• 2:39:46Speaker 02

  Jeez.

• 2:39:47Joe Rogan?

  This is the first thing he said he would do. And then just reorganize everything and say, now go back to chasing criminals.

• 2:39:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:39:54Joe Rogan?

  And stop attacking the fucking citizens. Stop spying on people, you fucking weirdos.

• 2:39:59Speaker 02

  I'm so pumped about him and Tulsi. And like, there's just such an awesome group of people that are just.

• 2:40:05Joe Rogan?

  Certainly interesting.

• 2:40:06Speaker 02

  I mean, it's.

• 2:40:07Joe Rogan?

  I'm even excited about the way Trump is doing interviews now. Like, he's doing, it's like he's become like a wiser person in interviews. Like, he did this interview with this lady from, I think it was NBC, the recent one that he did was over an hour. But even the way he was talking to her, she was saying things, he's like, you know, you would be so much better if you weren't so biased. So he said to her, it was like a kind way of saying it to her.

• 2:40:27Speaker 02

  Do you think he always had that and he's just so intelligent, he's play, he's playing different cards at different times?

• 2:40:33Joe Rogan?

  I think he's realizing that part of the problem is not just the resistance that he faced, but his reaction to the resistance. And he still slips. Sometimes like he tweets out, I hate Taylor Swift.

• 2:40:45Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 2:40:47Joe Rogan?

  Which I thought was hilarious. I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that. I just love irrational tweeters.

• 2:40:53Speaker 02

  Right, right. I mean, at what point does like the incoming president gonna just dunk on somebody?

• 2:40:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, he wasn't winning yet. I think he was freaking out, you know? I honestly think he was freaking out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because, uh, they, they were doing a psy-op. And they were all of a sudden making it seem like Kamala Harris was the dream that we'd always been looking for. And they were tricking people who recognized that she was an unpopular vice president just three weeks ago. And everybody was all of a sudden on board.

• 2:41:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, that one spun around fast.

• 2:41:23Joe Rogan?

  Jesus, it was wild to watch. But that was another thing, like, if you can learn from it, look, we got through it, it didn't work, but you, you should learn that the government will organize to do that to protect their position of power. Because here's what's up. The people that are in power, and we're not even saying they're evil, I'm not saying anything bad about them, but the people in the administration that's here currently. They're all gonna lose their jobs, okay? Or they keep their jobs. So if they can keep their jobs, what is, what's the way we keep our job? The way we keep our job is we present her as the best option possible. Even if they don't think that's true. They have a vested interest. You're talking about thousands of people that are in control of these very organizations that were going after social media.

• 2:42:06Joe Rogan?

  And we're getting them to take down factual information. Because it was dangerous to their narrative. So they have already shown that they don't have ethics. They have already shown that they don't give a fuck about freedom of speech and the First Amendment. What they want is to keep their fucking job and keep power. And also not get in trouble for some of the shit they did that was maybe illegal. Which we wouldn't even have known about if Elon didn't buy Twitter.

• 2:42:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I agree. I think the Elon buy on Twitter was like that.

• 2:42:33Joe Rogan?

  It's a game changer.

• 2:42:34Speaker 02

  A game changer.

• 2:42:35Joe Rogan?

  The fork in the road for civilization.

• 2:42:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's wild to think, isn't it?

• 2:42:38Joe Rogan?

  Marc Andreessen has said there's two forks in the road. There's one Elon buys Twitter and two, Trump turns his head and doesn't get shot. Those are the two.

• 2:42:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:42:47Joe Rogan?

  Those, if those two things don't happen, who fucking knows where we are?

• 2:42:51Speaker 02

  I, I don't disagree. And you look at those, both scenarios are both like one in a million. Like, how would, A, the Trump, like, Trump turns his head, like, that's wild. But then like, how would a guy like Elon exist, first of all, in our lifetime?

• 2:43:06Joe Rogan?

  Right, what are the odds?

• 2:43:07Speaker 02

  What are the odds, right? That has the vehicle of Twitter or, or, you know, and all the things line up.

• 2:43:14Joe Rogan?

  Not just has the vehicle, has so much fuck you money. That he's willing to blow forty-four billion dollars on something that's worth two-hundred billion, maybe. So, or, or rather twenty billion, maybe. So, one of the things that, like, there's this narrative, like, he's such a bad businessman. Twitter is worth twenty billion dollars less than when he purchased it. No, no, no, it was never worth that much. He overpaid for it. He overpaid for it on purpose, yeah.

• 2:43:39Speaker 02

  Knowingly.

• 2:43:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, knowingly. He just wanted, he wanted to take control of this fucking thing that is always been so important to us. Which is the First Amendment.

• 2:43:48Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:43:48Joe Rogan?

  Express, here's my favorite. People keep saying, I keep seeing this, where people that go over to Blue Sky, they keep saying. What Elon's done is highlight right wing voices and accentuate right wing and Twitter is overrun by right wing now. No, no, no. No, this is actually representative of the real country, which is 50/50. This is what you never had before because conservative voices were always censored.

• 2:44:16Speaker 02

  Always.

• 2:44:16Joe Rogan?

  So now conservative voices and progressive voices coexist and the progressive voices who are the babies don't like it. Cause now they have people that think completely different than them and they don't, they can't stop them. They're used to silence them. You, you used to not be able to say anything about certain things. You would get kicked off and now you could fully express yourself.

• 2:44:37Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:44:38Joe Rogan?

  And you're finding out there's people you agree with, there's people you disagree with. That is the world. The world is not some fucked up echo chamber where if you say, uh, you know, um, to a man is never a woman, you get banned for life. That happened to my friend Meghan Murphy. She got banned for life because she said, "A man is never a woman." Which is biologically true, but they were like, "No, that's transphobic." For life.

• 2:45:03Speaker 02

  For life.

• 2:45:04Joe Rogan?

  For life, forever. Bye. So they don't want any narrative contrary to what they have accepted as doctrine. And that's what's so fucked up.

• 2:45:14Speaker 02

  Remaining dogmatic in the face of alternate information.

• 2:45:16Joe Rogan?

  And pushed, pushed by the government. This is what's really important.

• 2:45:21Speaker 02

  And again, that's where you kind of look back and go, if something is being pushed by anyone.

• 2:45:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:45:25Speaker 02

  Follow the money, follow the track. Like why?

• 2:45:27Joe Rogan?

  So they're doing it under the guise of being progressive. So this is why they think it's worth doing. They, it's like if you can allow the government to censor you under the guise of them being on the good side.

• 2:45:40Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:45:40Joe Rogan?

  Then, then you're lost. Cause then you, you've bought into this nonsense and you have, if you just looked at it objectively, you have people that are still supporting the military industrial complex, still supporting overthrowing democratically elected governments and other countries. It's still the same shit that you hated about the right and that same government, you've let them into your home and you let them control this most important platform of free speech on the war, in the world. Because you think they're doing it for your side, which is good. It's a good thing. Meanwhile, they're drone bombing people in Yemen. They don't give a fuck about you. This is so stupid. They're just trying to stay in power. And they knew that they were gonna lose power if that Hunter Biden laptop got out. They're like, we're fucked. This could cost us 10 million votes.

• 2:46:24Speaker 02

  And the wild part is, I guess because it's after the fact, but it doesn't seem like that whole thing really, really changed the scoreboard. And maybe I could be wrong.

• 2:46:33Joe Rogan?

  The Hunter Biden laptop thing? I think it did. I think it did.

• 2:46:37Speaker 02

  I don't think enough people were talking about it.

• 2:46:39Joe Rogan?

  They didn't know. If they weren't, if they, well, first of all, where do people find out things? Most people are not finding out things through the newspaper.

• 2:46:46Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:46:46Joe Rogan?

  They're finding out things through social media. And if you can block it on social media, they don't find out about it.

• 2:46:51Speaker 02

  Of course. There's so many things I talk to people about that's like, kind of in our world, like, just everyone knows this stuff. And I'll talk to people just on the street, whatever, they have no idea.

• 2:47:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, most people don't have any idea.

• 2:47:02Speaker 02

  And that's where I started going, oh, there's different narratives being spun to different algorithmic groups. Because we're all in the Truman Show, our own little Truman Show.

• 2:47:11Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 2:47:12Speaker 02

  And we all think that we know what's going on. And I'm like, hey, guys, we all have our different scoreboard somehow that's been put up. So like, let's just question the scoreboard for a minute.

• 2:47:21Joe Rogan?

  And learn how to communicate with people you disagree with. And this is the problem with these people that wanted all the right wing voices banned from Twitter. Like, hey, guys, that's bad for you. It's bad for you.

• 2:47:32Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:47:32Joe Rogan?

  And it's bad for your, your own objectivity, your own understanding of the world. And you need to, even if someone's wildly incorrect, if they're wildly wrong, you need to be able to know that people do think that way. It's good for you.

• 2:47:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, make a good point. And like, let's listen. Yeah. And I enjoy talking to people from all over, and like, much like yourself. And I stupidly got into some, some DMs with like, people just like hitting me up. And they're like, hey, then, and I'll just like, oh, I'll ride the ride.

• 2:48:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:02Speaker 02

  And I'll ask questions and this and that and the other. But it was very illuminating, like, oh, wow, you're looking at a totally different scoreboard, a totally different game clock, a whole different thing. And it, it makes me at least question myself. I go, well, maybe I'm watching, I'm the crazy one. Maybe I'm.

• 2:48:17Joe Rogan?

  No, they're just a Cowboys fan. They're a Cowboys fan. The Cowboys can do no wrong.

• 2:48:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:48:22Joe Rogan?

  And you're like, fuck you. I like the Raiders. Like, whatever it is.

• 2:48:25Speaker 02

  Show you guys.

• 2:48:26Joe Rogan?

  That's what it is. It's teams for people who don't believe in sports. And that's politics for a lot of those fuckers. A lot of those fuckers are not into sports. And they're, see, I've always been super reluctant to the whole team thing in the first place because. When I stopped playing baseball and I started fighting, one of the reasons why I did it was like, I didn't like that Lil Billy can drop the ball and I'm a fucking loser.

• 2:48:48Speaker 02

  Oh, I get it.

• 2:48:49Joe Rogan?

  I didn't like that.

• 2:48:49Speaker 02

  I get it.

• 2:48:50Joe Rogan?

  I like to rely on myself, like.

• 2:48:52Speaker 02

  I've never played a team sport.

• 2:48:53Joe Rogan?

  The most relying on myself to me was like fighting. I was like, we're the same weight. We, you, you, there's no trickery. You're three, two, one, go. You know, you're like, are you ready? Are you ready? Go. It was like so simple to me. Like this is what I'm looking for. This is like competition that makes sense to me. And this idea of like, joining a group of people and all of their opinions I have to agree with, like, that's horrendous to me. Like that, like, what are the odds they're gonna be right? What are they, even in fighting, so many people are so wrong in their ideas. Like there's guys in the gym that I'll hear them giving advice like, you don't need submissions. You want to learn submission defense. Like what are you talking about?

• 2:49:34Joe Rogan?

  Don't tell him that. Like you should shut the fuck up. Like this guy's a trained fighter in a gym. He's telling people, you just need submission defense. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You need to learn how to do it so you can even defend it correctly.

• 2:49:46Speaker 02

  Right. Just even know what's out there. That's like listening to the other side. It's like, hey, tell me why you believe X, Y, and Z that I think is absurd. But yeah, give me, oh, wow. Okay. Well, now I realize you're crazy, but at least I know.

• 2:49:58Joe Rogan?

  It's also like, who, who are you training with where you don't think that works? No, why don't you go train with Fabrizio Verdoom and then tell me you should learn your guard? You don't know what you're talking about. You're talking nonsense. You're saying, you're saying something from this very narrow minded perspective. Like you can only learn so many skills. Like, no, you could, you should learn the whole thing.

• 2:50:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:50:20Joe Rogan?

  And if you can't learn the whole thing, you're in the wrong game. Because these kids that are coming up, guarantee you that, I watched some of these kids that are coming up in the amateur ranks and they're kids that are fighting in the UK and they're gonna make their way in the UFC. These motherfuckers are complete and they're like 18. Some of these kids that are fighting in 1FC, they're like 17, 18 years old and they're complete. They can do everything. Like you better learn how to do everything.

• 2:50:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. You're gonna meet that guy.

• 2:50:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that guy's out there. And otherwise you're in the wrong game. And if you're giving advice saying, you don't need to learn that, like, oh.

• 2:50:51Speaker 02

  Well, that's a good, like, if you're ever given advice that someone doesn't need to expand their horizons, like, that's just wrong.

• 2:50:56Joe Rogan?

  Right, but imagine if that guy's your coach. And imagine you have a team, and everyone in the team has to believe that submissions are bullshit.

• 2:51:02Speaker 02

  Building that same narrative.

• 2:51:03Joe Rogan?

  Right, and then you get trapped with all these meatheads that think it's just all about ground and pound, and then you get triangled every weekend. You're like, I'm tired of getting triangled.

• 2:51:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, it's the same tribalism in strength and conditioning, too. You either got, get guys are like, oh, all the powerlifting moves, that's all you gotta do. Bench squat, bench squat. And it's like, all the other guys are Olympic lifts, you gotta snatch, clean, and jerk, and everything else is stupid. You're like, okay, guys, like, and I used to joke, I was like, I can look at your shoes, and I could tell you what tribe you're in, and what music you probably listen to.

• 2:51:32Joe Rogan?

  What shoes are, what are the shoes that you, Converse All-Stars, a lot of guys lift with those.

• 2:51:36Speaker 02

  Because they'll be Westside guys.

• 2:51:37Joe Rogan?

  That's a hardcore dude.

• 2:51:39Speaker 02

  Hardcore dude. He's gonna run All-Star, he's gonna run Converse, he's gonna box squat, he's gonna sumo dead.

• 2:51:44Joe Rogan?

  Why doesn't Converse make an All-Star with a wider toe box? Because I try to lift in Converse, and I'm like, these are stupid.

• 2:51:51Speaker 02

  They're hard. They're hard to do.

• 2:51:52Joe Rogan?

  I like a wide toe box. I like a Vivo barefoot like that, but Converse are good because they're flat, there's not a lot of, there's no cushion there.

• 2:51:59Speaker 02

  It depends on what you're doing, right? If you're like more of a, of a, you know, wide stance, sumo, or box squat, because your feet, your heels aren't elevated, it's actually a better situation for squatting.

• 2:52:10Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:52:10Speaker 02

  Well, if you're an Olympic lifter, you're gonna be closer, so you want your heels elevated with a flexible toe. And that's so, so you look, and you're like, oh, okay, like, this is what you're doing. And then I kind of laugh, like, the guys with the cross trainers are usually just dudes that do a whole bunch of crap, and they're doing plyos and dancing around and whatever. But there's always like these little tribal things, like, if you're this person, you're wearing Chucks and you're listening to Pantera.

• 2:52:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:30Speaker 02

  Like, it's just part of the gig, you know? And it's always funny, and it's like, alright.

• 2:52:35Joe Rogan?

  Some people think you have to lift heavy. If you don't lift heavy, you're a pussy.

• 2:52:39Speaker 02

  Oh, or you have to listen to music at like 8,000 decibels to lift heavy.

• 2:52:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and slap your fucking thighs and scream.

• 2:52:47Speaker 02

  I've danced that dance before.

• 2:52:48Joe Rogan?

  Throw the power out of your hands.

• 2:52:49Speaker 02

  Oh, I've done the, I've done the, I've done the.

• 2:52:51Joe Rogan?

  Smelling salts?

• 2:52:52Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 2:52:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, we do smelling salts in here.

• 2:52:55Speaker 02

  Let's go. Yeah, let's roll. Let's go.

• 2:53:01Speaker 02

  It's a good one, huh? Rough? It's probably better than what I had back in the day.

• 2:53:05Joe Rogan?

  It's a good one and it's not even that fresh. Yeah, it's not even fresh.

• 2:53:09Speaker 02

  That's worse. Worse than I remember.

• 2:53:11Joe Rogan?

  That's Juju Mufus.

• 2:53:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:53:12Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 2:53:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:53:13Joe Rogan?

  We are an unlicensed

• 2:53:18Joe Rogan?

  boot promoter of this brand.

• 2:53:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know. Yeah, we used to do the little capsules and break them and that's a whole different animal.

• 2:53:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's it's real. That's a whole jar of it. It's potent. The fumes that come out are so strong. When you have a sealed bag, you could smell it on the outside of the bag. Then when you open the bag, you got a sealed bottle.

• 2:53:35Speaker 02

  I think my ears are bleeding now.

• 2:53:36Joe Rogan?

  Just the smell from opening the bag is rough.

• 2:53:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, I just...

• 2:53:41Joe Rogan?

  What does it do? Does that really help you? Have you ever tried to lift before that? And then add it?

• 2:53:46Speaker 02

  It just snaps the central nervous system. It's kind of like, you know, when you're passed out, right?

• 2:53:49Joe Rogan?

  Does it make you a little stronger, you think?

• 2:53:50Speaker 02

  More mad.

• 2:53:52Joe Rogan?

  More mad?

• 2:53:52Speaker 02

  More mad.

• 2:53:53Joe Rogan?

  Mad's good.

• 2:53:53Speaker 02

  Mad's good. On big gross motor movements, squats, deadlifts. I used to call like, deadlifts are just how mad you were.

• 2:54:01Joe Rogan?

  They used to have the strongest man competitions all the time on ESPN.

• 2:54:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:54:05Joe Rogan?

  Those dudes were like holding on to cars. They had the cars on the ramps.

• 2:54:08Speaker 02

  Oh, so cool. Yeah, the big stones and Atlas Stones. It was so great.

• 2:54:13Joe Rogan?

  It was fun.

• 2:54:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I watched them all the time in the 90s. And then, actually, my dad was in 1980 at the Playboy Club. He was with Bill Kasmaier when he did the Silver Dollar Deadlift.

• 2:54:23Joe Rogan?

  What's the Silver Dollar Deadlift?

• 2:54:24Speaker 02

  He had like 900 something pounds of these like clear boxes. And they were filled with silver dollars.

• 2:54:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:54:31Speaker 02

  And it was super cool. And so it was like an iconic lift and, you know, pops was like hanging out with his cats. And it was funny because there's like a whole picture of him. I'm pretty sure, I mean, he was obviously training that day. I think he was partying pretty hard too. Straight off of a ripper. And I was like, man, the 80s were awesome. It looked like...

• 2:54:50Speaker 02

  He looked like Magnum P.I. It was awesome.

• 2:54:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they were just learning things.

• 2:54:53Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 2:54:54Joe Rogan?

  The pioneer days, basically.

• 2:54:56Speaker 02

  Geez, it was so cool.

• 2:54:57Joe Rogan?

  You always knew that if you were watching the Strongest Man, if the dude's name was Magnus, he was gonna fuck things up.

• 2:55:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Is it for Magnuson or Samuelson? If there's some sons involved?

• 2:55:08Joe Rogan?

  You know, one of those guys is fighting MMA. He's been fighting it Marius Pujanowski.

• 2:55:12Speaker 02

  Oh, I remember Marius.

• 2:55:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he went from being a strong man to being like a

• 2:55:16Speaker 02

  Terrifying.

• 2:55:16Joe Rogan?

  Really good MMA fighter.

• 2:55:18Speaker 02

  I could see that.

• 2:55:19Joe Rogan?

  In the beginning, he was getting fucked up, but he tried to dive in right away. Like, he tried to fight, um... God, he fought some good fighters like right away.

• 2:55:28Speaker 02

  When Marius was at the height, because we used to do a lot of, a lot with the Arnold Strongman classic.

• 2:55:33Joe Rogan?

  Sylvia, that's who he fought.

• 2:55:34Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, did he?

• 2:55:34Joe Rogan?

  He fought Tim Sylvia like really early on, like when Tim, yeah, so he fought Tim Sylvia in his third pro fight and he got the fuck beaten out of him.

• 2:55:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, well that'll happen.

• 2:55:44Joe Rogan?

  Like that was just.

• 2:55:45Speaker 02

  But I never forget.

• 2:55:46Joe Rogan?

  Then he fought Butterbean, he beat Butterbean. He lost to James Thompson and he beat James Thompson. Oh, well, no contest it says.

• 2:55:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:55Speaker 02

  What a stud.

• 2:55:56Joe Rogan?

  Fought Bob Sap. That was when Bob Sap was like taking some kind of dives.

• 2:56:00Speaker 02

  My, uh, my buddy used to train with Bob.

• 2:56:03Joe Rogan?

  Holes Gracie, beat Holes Gracie. Yeah, he knocked Holes Gracie out. Yeah, so he's kind of like a bunch of like legit MMA fights.

• 2:56:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, Pujanowski was like one of the first guys I ever saw that was that big, that had like vascular lats. So we were in the backstage and it was kind of weird because like he was considerably bigger the year than before. And I think even taller too. I was like, this guy wasn't much. Just like.

• 2:56:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, how did he get taller?

• 2:56:28Speaker 02

  I was like, that's what I was questioning.

• 2:56:30Joe Rogan?

  He's on all kinds of crazy shit.

• 2:56:32Speaker 02

  Him being taller.

• 2:56:33Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing. Oh boy, got taller. Look at the size of that motherfucker.

• 2:56:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was backstage and everyone was like big, big, but it was like Marius is in a whole different category.

• 2:56:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's a tank. See if you can find him now though. He's slimmed down considerably. He still looks fucking huge. But, um, as an MMA fighter now, he's, um, yeah, see there, see, click on that picture. No, the other one.

• 2:56:55Speaker 02

  He's still terrifying.

• 2:56:56Joe Rogan?

  Go, the what, what above it? Right above it? Yeah, but, oh, what year is that?

• 2:57:01Speaker 03

  Clearly old though, 22.

• 2:57:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, because it's blurry?

• 2:57:05Joe Rogan?

  Does it say that it's 22 years old?

• 2:57:06Speaker 03

  2002.

• 2:57:07Joe Rogan?

  Okay, see if you can find, uh, some footage of him actually fighting. Maybe there's some, I'm sure he's got some high, there he is right there. He's on his knees. Oh, here we go.

• 2:57:17Joe Rogan?

  So he's, he's still stiff, but he's got good technique and he's got a lot of power, man.

• 2:57:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, look at the muscles on the back of his neck. He looks like when those bucks turn the rut.

• 2:57:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:26Speaker 02

  When the necks blow up really big.

• 2:57:27Joe Rogan?

  But at least like he's, he's throwing correctly, hands up high, and this is all technical work here.

• 2:57:34Speaker 02

  Well, it's like Brian Shaw's been doing a little bit of sparring with Derek Wolfe.

• 2:57:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 2:57:38Speaker 02

  How terrible is that?

• 2:57:40Joe Rogan?

  What does he weigh, 390?

• 2:57:42Speaker 02

  I don't know. I mean, I know he was up to 440 something. At one point. My dad is actually who got him in a strongman. He came by our booth, uh, at 18 years old and my dad was like, "Hey, you're really strong. You should like get into this."

• 2:57:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he should be on another planet. You're too big. You're too big for this planet.

• 2:57:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was probably 240.

• 2:58:00Joe Rogan?

  That makes me believe in the Anunnaki.

• 2:58:03Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:58:03Joe Rogan?

  You know, you see giants that are like, where, what happened?

• 2:58:06Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 2:58:07Joe Rogan?

  How'd you get so big?

• 2:58:08Speaker 02

  Those dudes. You remember Cleve Dean? You ever remember that guy?

• 2:58:12Joe Rogan?

  No, who's he?

• 2:58:12Speaker 02

  So he was a old, uh, they called him like a pig farmer. He was the one that won the original, uh, World's Strongest Man, but he was an arm wrestling champion. And he was like all this old, like weird, he was like 440 pound, like just giant farmer. Yeah, there he goes. Yeah, that cat.

• 2:58:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, why is that poor little fellow arm wrestling?

• 2:58:28Speaker 02

  I mean, look how big that human is.

• 2:58:30Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ, look at his hand. Oh, my God.

• 2:58:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:58:35Joe Rogan?

  Look at that photo. That's Big Daddy Goodrich. Um, it was MMA fighter. Look at that, the hand holding the, the table in the front. Look at the size of that fucking thing.

• 2:58:44Speaker 02

  Wild, right?

• 2:58:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. If you could teach that guy to throw a jab, he'd fuck a lot of people up.

• 2:58:49Speaker 02

  I would like to see a fight between him and Andre the Giant.

• 2:58:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 2:58:53Speaker 02

  That'd been awesome.

• 2:58:53Joe Rogan?

  Definitely wouldn't be long.

• 2:58:55Speaker 02

  Right, right. Did you ever meet Andre?

• 2:58:58Joe Rogan?

  No, I did not.

• 2:59:00Speaker 02

  That'd been cool.

• 2:59:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I would like to have met him.

• 2:59:02Speaker 02

  That'd been, that'd been.

• 2:59:03Joe Rogan?

  I met Hulk Hogan twice.

• 2:59:04Speaker 02

  Did you?

• 2:59:05Joe Rogan?

  I met him once when he was super tall and then, well, I met him multiple times, but I met him once when he was super tall and then now he's just like regular big.

• 2:59:12Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:59:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because he's lost like five or six inches of height for his back.

• 2:59:16Speaker 02

  Oh, he's just getting compressed?

• 2:59:18Joe Rogan?

  His back is all like fused. His whole back is fused. He's so fucked. How many surgeries did he say he had, Jamie? Some crazy amount of back surgeries.

• 2:59:27Speaker 02

  Really?

• 2:59:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, his whole back is fucked. Like he walked through the cane. It's rough.

• 2:59:32Speaker 03

  Have you, have you talked?

• 2:59:33Joe Rogan?

  It's because of 25 in the last 10 years.

• 2:59:35Speaker 02

  25 back surgeries. Oh, so he's just lost all of his?

• 2:59:39Speaker 03

  He's had knees, hips, shoulders, face, abs.

• 2:59:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:59:44Speaker 02

  You've, I'm sure you've met Stallone before, right?

• 2:59:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:59:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. Have y'all just talked like random old weird stuff like?

• 2:59:51Joe Rogan?

  No, I didn't get a chance to talk to him very much. I interviewed him once for, I think it was Spike TV.

• 2:59:56Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:59:56Joe Rogan?

  When I was doing the UFC thing, I interviewed him. It was fun.

• 3:00:00Speaker 02

  He is wa- he's very similar to you in that so like wild, like remembers everything.

• 3:00:06Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 3:00:06Speaker 02

  From like those eras of stuff and, and you know Gunner Peterson? So I was at Gunner's Gym in LA and Stallone was in there. I was like, oh, badass, friggin' Stallone. Like, I'm a kid of the eighties. And I was like, hey, you know, would you mind? He sat down with me for forty-five minutes.

• 3:00:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 3:00:22Speaker 02

  And we just talked like, but he mentioned Cleve Dean, like he remembered like all the arm wrestlers, the boxers, like historian of the human performance world. It was like, oh, this is so cool. I figured you guys had to like have nerded out about it.

• 3:00:36Joe Rogan?

  Did you, have you ever paid any attention to the old catch wrestling guys?

• 3:00:40Speaker 02

  No, what's that?

• 3:00:41Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Catch wrestling was catch as catch can, which is what they used to call it, I think when it was, when they were in England. And then when they came over to America, it was called cat, like what, what it was is basically wrestling with submissions. And there were certain rules, like you could pin a guy or you could submit him and they can tap. Um, and there was a few guys that were legendary for their strength and conditioning routines.

• 3:01:07Speaker 02

  No way.

• 3:01:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. Josh Barnett, learned under Carl Gotch. And Gotch was like famous for having like this unbelievable gauntlet of strength and conditioning work that you had to be able to get through before he would even train you.

• 3:01:21Speaker 02

  Really?

• 3:01:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like he went over to Japan and Gotch trained a lot of guys, like there's a lot of like catch wrestling influence.

• 3:01:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, when you go back to the early days of catch wrestling, go back, go Farmer Burns, cause Farmer Burns was like one of the, what is this? What am I watching here? What is catch as catch can? So these guys.

• 3:01:40Speaker 02

  Oh, was that George Hackenshmidt?

• 3:01:42Joe Rogan?

  They, is that what it was?

• 3:01:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, back up for a second. So, yeah, Hackenshmidt.

• 3:01:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so.

• 3:01:47Speaker 02

  So he's like one of the fathers of strength and conditioning.

• 3:01:50Joe Rogan?

  Makes sense, cause a lot of these.

• 3:01:52Speaker 02

  Hack squad.

• 3:01:53Joe Rogan?

  Carl Gotch and Hackenshmidt were duking it out at Comiskey Park. And they would have wrestling matches, but they were real matches.

• 3:02:02Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 3:02:03Joe Rogan?

  And then somewhere along the line, they started doing carnival matches. And then these carnival matches, they had, you know, regular people that they would find and they would like have predetermined outcomes. Then it became pro wrestling and that's where pro wrestling was

• 3:02:18Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:02:18Joe Rogan?

  Given birth to.

• 3:02:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:02:20Joe Rogan?

  It was out of this necessity to kind of rig the matches.

• 3:02:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:02:24Joe Rogan?

  But.

• 3:02:24Speaker 02

  You get in the Wahoo chop.

• 3:02:25Joe Rogan?

  See, these are kind of enthusiasts that are doing it now, like in a modern setting. But the, the guys who really know the stuff, like Josh Barnett has tapped out some legit Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belts in competition with catch wrestling techniques. It's like Kimura's, Americana's.

• 3:02:43Speaker 02

  That's cool.

• 3:02:43Joe Rogan?

  They call, they call that a double wrist lock though. They have like different terminology for some of the same moves. But Farmer Burns was this guy that was, he was so legendary with his strength and conditioning that he would hang from a tree. He would literally like hang himself.

• 3:02:59Speaker 02

  Like hang?

• 3:03:00Joe Rogan?

  His neck, his neck was so built up and he was a small guy. He was like a hundred and sixty pounds. But he was so jacked and his, he literally had like a pit bull neck. There's, there's photos of him where he would do this stunt where he would hang by the neck in front of crowds.

• 3:03:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:03:16Joe Rogan?

  Like, look at him. That's him.

• 3:03:17Speaker 02

  Oh wow, okay.

• 3:03:18Joe Rogan?

  That's Farmer Burns.

• 3:03:19Speaker 02

  Okay, probably very similar to the mighty Adam if you've ever heard of him.

• 3:03:23Joe Rogan?

  But you know how fucking strong your neck has to be? And not just hang sometimes, hang like all the time. Look at his neck.

• 3:03:30Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 3:03:31Joe Rogan?

  Look at his fucking neck. But he knew that, you know, if your neck is weak, your body's weak, your core is weak. If someone collar ties you and you got a neck like that, you can resist it and you could work your shit.

• 3:03:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. Anything that hangs out of your t-shirt, you better train.

• 3:03:46Joe Rogan?

  There was a bunch of those guys, um, back in those days that just had these incredible strength and conditioning programs. And they used a lot of things like steel maces.

• 3:03:55Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 3:03:56Joe Rogan?

  Like Carl Gotch was, see if you can find Carl Gotch strength and conditioning routine. Cause even like as an older man, when he was teaching people stuff, he would, he would show how he maneuvered these, you know, these big fucking maces. It's like super impressive stuff.

• 3:04:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, it just, but it's maneuvering something, not necessarily lifting it.

• 3:04:14Joe Rogan?

  All that functional strength stuff, he would have those guys do 500 body weight squats every day, every day.

• 3:04:21Speaker 02

  Oh, that's cool.

• 3:04:22Joe Rogan?

  So here's him back then.

• 3:04:24Speaker 02

  Oh, Goch.

• 3:04:26Joe Rogan?

  And a lot of it was like Hindu pushups and look how flexible he was for a big fucking giant dude.

• 3:04:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:04:32Joe Rogan?

  Like, super flexible. So, they realized that, you know, like we were talking about, technique is very important, but also strength. So look at the size of his fucking thighs, dude.

• 3:04:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, look at the neck.

• 3:04:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:04:44Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 3:04:45Joe Rogan?

  And so he'd make these guys do these crazy wrestlers' bridges and look at how you could do that, like support yourself and pull yourself back up like that. So they kind of like can resist against necks.

• 3:04:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:04:57Joe Rogan?

  So these guys would have these unbelievably grueling physical sessions and then, then they do their technique.

• 3:05:05Speaker 02

  Wow. So they would attempt to, I guess, be a pre-fatigue and say you'd like to do it?

• 3:05:11Joe Rogan?

  Well, also, you just had to be in phenomenal shape because in wrestling, you know, that's the first thing that goes.

• 3:05:16Speaker 02

  Oh, gosh.

• 3:05:17Joe Rogan?

  You must have ridiculous conditioning to be an elite wrestler. Look at the size of his fucking legs, dude. So Carl Goch was just like super famous for this, he's in Japan here teaching these guys.

• 3:05:28Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 3:05:29Joe Rogan?

  And obviously, this is black and white, it's just a long time ago.

• 3:05:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, have you ever seen the, um, it's a...

• 3:05:35Joe Rogan?

  Who is he training here? Does it say who he's working with?

• 3:05:37Speaker 03

  Inoki.

• 3:05:38Joe Rogan?

  That's Inoki! Oh, wow! Of course, Inoki who fought Muhammad Ali.

• 3:05:43Speaker 02

  Oh, okay, right.

• 3:05:44Joe Rogan?

  You ever see that fight?

• 3:05:44Speaker 02

  No.

• 3:05:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god. It was like some crazy scam fight where Inoki just dropped to his back. Yeah, work his neck. So he's lifting him up with his neck.

• 3:05:54Speaker 02

  He's standing on his face, though, dude. Good job.

• 3:05:56Joe Rogan?

  Carl Goch didn't fuck around, dude.

• 3:05:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's obvious. That'll build your chin.

• 3:06:00Joe Rogan?

  So, uh, Inoki had this fight with Muhammad Ali and Muhammad Ali's trying to punch him and Inoki just goes to his back and kicks his legs. So he fucked Muhammad Ali's legs up, like they were really fucked up for quite a while.

• 3:06:13Speaker 02

  Really?

• 3:06:13Joe Rogan?

  After that, yeah. So this is what they did. He just kicked his knees and kicked his legs.

• 3:06:18Speaker 02

  Yikes.

• 3:06:18Joe Rogan?

  And Ali's like, "What the fuck?" And it's in Japan and they're paying him a ton of money to do it. And so the referee has to separate him and the referee is Judo Jean LaBelle.

• 3:06:29Speaker 02

  No way.

• 3:06:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so Judo Jean LaBelle's the referee and Inoki's just lying on his back kicking him. And he's, he's kicking him with like roundhouse kicks, like look at this. So he's fucking Ali's legs up, man.

• 3:06:41Speaker 02

  That's bullshit.

• 3:06:41Joe Rogan?

  When you're a guy who makes his living off of his footwork, which was Ali, like this was super dangerous. Look, he's getting him in a leg lock.

• 3:06:49Speaker 02

  So obviously this wasn't boxing.

• 3:06:50Joe Rogan?

  No, it was some weird hybrid fight that, you know, I think Ali just needed money and they talked him into doing this, but.

• 3:06:57Speaker 03

  Look at those fights we get today. Is that sort of like what this was going on? These crazy exhibition real fights that are happening?

• 3:07:04Joe Rogan?

  Well, sort of, but this was real. Inoki was really trying to hurt him. He really did kick the shit out of his legs and Ali really, see if you can find any articles on Ali's legs after the Inoki bout.

• 3:07:15Speaker 02

  That's bullshit.

• 3:07:15Joe Rogan?

  I think he really fucked his legs up because he didn't know how to check kicks. He didn't know what to even do and all of a sudden this guy's on his back, roundhouse kicking his legs and stomping at his knees. Yeah. So who knows if his knees got hyperextended, he tore his meniscus, like who knows what the fuck happened there?

• 3:07:33Speaker 02

  Have you ever seen, there's an old Polish documentary, um, that's them training in the 1970s and they're doing all that kind of crazy stuff. Throwing logs.

• 3:07:42Joe Rogan?

  Look at it, it said he has blood clots in his leg. Where does it say that?

• 3:07:46Speaker 02

  Nearly ended Ali's career.

• 3:07:50Speaker 03

  Before I clicked on it, it said it in the like the little two sentences.

• 3:07:54Joe Rogan?

  Finally, the 15th round, they called it a draw. Wow.

• 3:08:00Joe Rogan?

  Ali is bleeding from the legs. He gets an infection in his legs and he almost has to have an amputation. Holy shit, extended stay in the hospital was the best case scenario coming out of the fight. Wow. So Muhammad Ali, uh, suffering two blood clots and an infection in his leg from Inoki's vicious grounded kicks according to the sweet science. Wow.

• 3:08:25Joe Rogan?

  Wow, when he finally did, so look at this, so he said he continued his tour of Asia despite this, competing in exhibition matches in South Korea and the Philippines before returning to the United States. When he finally did get back to the US, Ali needed to stay in Los Angeles Hospital for multiple weeks to recover from injuries sustained in the Inoki fight. Holy shit, man.

• 3:08:45Speaker 02

  He put him on ice, man.

• 3:08:47Joe Rogan?

  They were concerned Ali's injuries could even be life-threatening. Well, that's staph infection. He was bleeding from the legs, got an infection in his legs, almost had to have an amputation. Bro, staph infections are fucking terrifying.

• 3:08:59Speaker 02

  Have you had one?

• 3:09:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, about two. Twice, twice about staph. Not bad, though.

• 3:09:04Speaker 02

  I had a blood clot.

• 3:09:05Joe Rogan?

  Caught it both times.

• 3:09:05Speaker 02

  I had a blood clot one time. I got jammed up, smoked my ankle, and I was like, didn't think much of it.

• 3:09:12Speaker 02

  Felt like, just kinda weird. Got hot, got swollen, I'm competing all over the world, and I'm like, yeah, this kinda feels weird. And, uh, the doctor's like, hey, man, you need to get that checked up. Of course, jumped back on a plane, went across the country. And they said that I had a blood clot from my knee to my hip.

• 3:09:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, shit.

• 3:09:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:09:29Joe Rogan?

  So it was blocking off the blood coming through the vein?

• 3:09:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, and my calf was giant, and, um...

• 3:09:34Joe Rogan?

  What do they do about that?

• 3:09:35Speaker 02

  Uh, just start taking blood thinners and stuff, and so, which was cool.

• 3:09:38Joe Rogan?

  But you can't get cut.

• 3:09:39Speaker 02

  Couldn't get cut, which is kinda funny, because I got on the blood thinners, and I had just pulled alligator tag, like, a couple days before.

• 3:09:45Joe Rogan?

  No!

• 3:09:46Speaker 02

  So I told, I told the doctor, I was like, he's like, "Don't do anything, they'll get you cut." I was like, "Well, I'm going alligator hunting tonight." And he's like, "Haha," and I was like, "No, no, seriously." He's like, "No, you'll bleed out if you get bit." And I'm like, "Yeah, but I probably won't bleed out." So I remember, like, in the middle of the night in the swamp, giving myself shots of whatever that stuff was in my stomach.

• 3:10:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god.

• 3:10:03Speaker 02

  It was, I'm not very smart, so, uh...

• 3:10:05Joe Rogan?

  How long do you have to take the blood thinners for, before it dissolves?

• 3:10:08Speaker 02

  For about six to eight months.

• 3:10:10Joe Rogan?

  Whoa!

• 3:10:11Speaker 02

  Cause I started on the shots, and then I went to, like, the Warfarin tabs, and they had to, to keep checking me, keep checking me, cause they had to let it all break out, and so I'd have to, once a month, get it ultrasounded. And...

• 3:10:23Joe Rogan?

  There's no better way? Can't they pull that out of there or something?

• 3:10:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I would've thought.

• 3:10:26Joe Rogan?

  Get some tweezers?

• 3:10:27Speaker 02

  You know?

• 3:10:29Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 3:10:30Speaker 02

  It's crazy. So I was at a Christmas party a couple of months later and my doctor saw me and he was like, hey, and he was a couple, had a couple beers in him. So he's like, hey, he's like, uh, you're gonna do, you are, you're one of your descendants are gonna do something special for this world. I'm like, what do you mean? And he was like, he's like, you know where that blood clot should have been? I go, uh, where? And he just tapped me on the chest. He's like, right there. He goes, no way you shouldn't have died on that one. I go, really? He goes, you heated it, you iced it, you massaged it, you flew, you trained. He goes, you did everything if you were trying to commit suicide by blood clot for months. He goes, how it didn't travel? I have no idea.

• 3:11:05Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 3:11:06Speaker 02

  Anybody, when someone tells you that, you're like, well, that's cool. I guess things are gonna go awesome for a while.

• 3:11:12Joe Rogan?

  Or you just got lucky.

• 3:11:13Speaker 02

  All right. Yeah. And then what happened, my, um, my lower leg, basically it like, they said it grew another vein. So it grew a bypass around it.

• 3:11:23Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 3:11:23Speaker 02

  So it, all the swelling started going down and they're like, yeah, you, one of your minute, like minimized veins or smaller veins actually grew in, in capacity and just worked its way around. They're like, the human body will do that. I'm like, so it just worked its way around the bypass.

• 3:11:36Joe Rogan?

  What would have happened though, if you didn't get that vein diluted with the blood thinners or that blood clot?

• 3:11:42Speaker 02

  Something had kicked loose. I mean, it was right at my hip.

• 3:11:45Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't go away? Your body doesn't absorb it ever?

• 3:11:47Speaker 02

  I mean, if, if the, uh, what have the hematocrit or whatever the blood, the, the, the thickness of the blood was still of that, if it ever broke loose, it, he was like, it'd have gone to your heart or your head. That'd have been a stroke or heart attack. And, you know, but it's weird, like, and it was just a, an ankle injury. Ankle.

• 3:12:03Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 3:12:04Speaker 02

  Smoked it and it's like, oh, okay. You know, I'll be fine. Started walking it off. And what screwed me is the next day, it was all black and blue, the whole deal, right? I'm walking, walking, walking, everything's not, not fine. It sucked. And I had to go on a business trip and I was like, let me go check and make sure it's not like broken, that I have to get it like actually fixed. I went to the doctor and they're like, hey, you you got to mobilize this thing. And I'd been walking for a week. And so they they wrapped it up and mobilized it. And I remember I was on a plane, I was sleeping and it felt like someone lit a fire in my calf. And I was like, wah, what was that? And I went to my hotel room and I filled the trash can up with ice and I just dumped my leg in there to cool my leg down. And that was like in May.

• 3:12:48Speaker 02

  And I competed at the Hammer World Championships all the way to Labor Day. And I was in San Francisco and I'm like, something's weird. I pulled down my knee sleeve and one of the docs was there and he's like, what is going on with your leg? I'm like, ah, I think I pulled a hamstring or something. He's like, nah, you didn't. And so I I came back, called my guy at South Carolina Sports Medicine and he got me in right away. And he's like, dude, you got a big ass blood clot and like, you gotta get this squared away now.

• 3:13:16Joe Rogan?

  Holy, imagine if he didn't do that. Imagine if you just.

• 3:13:19Speaker 02

  Just die. You would just been like, hey, I'm.

• 3:13:22Joe Rogan?

  One day you would have just died.

• 3:13:23Speaker 02

  I would have been a thirty year old, really healthy guy that just keeled over. And so it's like, that kind of hits you. And that was, that was honestly kind of the end of my competitive sports world. Cause I started realizing like, all I cared about was winning. And all I cared about was training and winning. And I like, I I forewent social relationships, uh, being smart with my body and all this stuff. Cause I was like, no, I'm going to win Worlds. I'm going to go do this. I'm going to be top blah, whatever.

• 3:13:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:13:54Speaker 02

  And it was just like, drive, drive, drive. And I was like, man, I didn't see this very obvious thing that could and should have killed me. It's like, I need to grow up. Like, I need to like refocus how I'm looking at these things. And so I had to mature and just like, okay, I've competed for fifteen or twenty years or whatever it was at that point. It's like, maybe take a pump, pump the brakes for a second and just go like. Am I making good choices for my family, good choices for my business, people that rely on me? Cause if, you know, cool in all things, but if Bert just keels over, like, you know, that's not optimal for really anyone.

• 3:14:30Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's interesting how you can get completely caught up in one goal to the point where you don't see anything else in life and you just miss out on a giant chunk of life. But if you wanna be the best at something, it's kind of the trade off. That's a Neil Brennan joke. That's the trade off.

• 3:14:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I've talked about like the, the rabbit hole guy versus the 90% guy. And like the 90% guy, which I think I've kinda turned into, like if I train for something and get into something, I've generally found if I really care about it, I could be as good as 90% of the world at it. Like a lot of different things.

• 3:15:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:15:08Speaker 02

  But if you're the guy that wants to go down there to be the best, the GOAT, you have to go down so far around the rabbit hole and forsake all other things to where you lose sight of, of reality.

• 3:15:19Joe Rogan?

  By the way, you could still not make it.

• 3:15:21Speaker 02

  And you could still not make it.

• 3:15:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you could be in the same weight class as John Jones.

• 3:15:26Speaker 02

  Right. And you're just like, I picked the wrong era to be alive, right?

• 3:15:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's Mike Tyson, 1986, whoops. So you wanna be a heavyweight boxer? Oh no.

• 3:15:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:15:35Joe Rogan?

  Tyrell Biggs.

• 3:15:37Speaker 02

  That's the weird part is like you could be the rabbit hole guy and go so far down and lose sight of life and still be the number three guy ever.

• 3:15:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:15:46Speaker 02

  And, you know, and you kinda like use like the Yoda, like the Dagobah Forest, like that's where people went to get all the force. Like, they don't write books about the 90% guy.

• 3:15:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:15:55Speaker 02

  They write books about the weirdo that lived in the forest. There's a little green man that knew the force. However, though.

• 3:16:01Joe Rogan?

  That guy might be miserable.

• 3:16:03Speaker 02

  Might be miserable, man.

• 3:16:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:16:04Speaker 02

  And I've seen it a lot.

• 3:16:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you gotta know when to stop. Like it's fun to do in the beginning, but you gotta know when to stop.

• 3:16:11Speaker 02

  I mean, I would say you're probably as good or better than 90 plus percent of the human population at fighting. Probably.

• 3:16:18Joe Rogan?

  Probably, yeah.

• 3:16:19Speaker 02

  You're probably better at ninety percent of the human population at shooting a bow. Probably.

• 3:16:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, probably.

• 3:16:25Speaker 02

  Right, and so you start looking at things, you're like, oh, the things are really-

• 3:16:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but if you wanna be Levi Morgan, there's a long road.

• 3:16:30Speaker 02

  It's a long road.

• 3:16:31Joe Rogan?

  It's a long road.

• 3:16:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:16:33Joe Rogan?

  Long ass road, and like, if you wanna beat Gordon Ryan, you're probably never gonna catch him, cuz he's already still doing it.

• 3:16:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he's not doing archery, and he's not doing a podcast, and he's not doing a thing.

• 3:16:42Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 3:16:43Speaker 02

  And then, so like, I've had to kinda went to this thing, I was like, am I, do I wanna be a ninety percent guy that enjoys semi-balance in my life? And is really passionate about three or four or five things, and be really, really good? Or do I wanna throw all my chips in? And the probability is I won't be the goat.

• 3:17:02Joe Rogan?

  Right, especially if it's a competitive thing.

• 3:17:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:17:05Joe Rogan?

  Where it gets, we're real tricky with some people, is if maybe it's a thing that's not a competitive thing, and you can keep doing it.

• 3:17:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:17:12Joe Rogan?

  Like, my friend Gary Clark Jr., when he records albums, he goes crazy. And he locks himself in the studio, and he's there for like, fucking twelve hours, like, every day. And it drives his family nuts, he's just like, constantly working on his music, because to him, like, he wants to be all in.

• 3:17:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:17:30Joe Rogan?

  Like, that's what, that's where he lives, that's where he creates this great music, when he's all in. And you could sacrifice all the other things in your life, you're not gonna work out, you're not gonna go on trips, you're not gonna- All you're doing is just, whatever that thing, maybe it's painting, whatever, maybe it's writing books, whatever it is, you're all in.

• 3:17:49Speaker 02

  And although it's beautiful, I don't know if I'm that guy.

• 3:17:53Joe Rogan?

  You don't have to be.

• 3:17:54Speaker 02

  You know? And that's why I had to look at myself.

• 3:17:56Joe Rogan?

  The thing is, in the greater, you know, if you're looking at the universe, if you look at the greater picture of everything, it's not really important what you do here in this life, but for you, it is. And the problem is, if you're compelled to try to be number one and you don't really chase it, you're always gonna have that thing in the back of your head. I never really went for it.

• 3:18:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:18:20Joe Rogan?

  At least you went for it for a long time. And that's the thing. Like, that I think is the best way. Go for something and then, but know when to stop.

• 3:18:27Speaker 02

  That's where it was.

• 3:18:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Don't be a 70-year-old dude out there in the Olympics throwing a hammer.

• 3:18:32Speaker 02

  Please don't. Please don't. No.

• 3:18:35Joe Rogan?

  He was the oldest guy who ever threw the hammer.

• 3:18:37Speaker 02

  Ah, gosh. Well, actually, my, one of my mentors, Judd Logan, so he, this dude made four Olympic teams and, and the hammer, and then got out of it and he was a coach. And then every time that he would hit a 50-year, 55-year, 60-year, he would train for three or four months, break the all-time world record in that way, in that age class. And he would go off again for five years.

• 3:18:59Joe Rogan?

  Good lord.

• 3:18:59Speaker 02

  And he would just come back and he would do it again. And just shatter the world record. And then he would come back and he'd do it. And he just did that up until pretty much when he, when he passed.

• 3:19:07Joe Rogan?

  Did he keep training the entire time? Like, how did he be able to come back?

• 3:19:10Speaker 02

  He, he was very genetically gifted and he would, he would just, he was a coach. So he was always doing it and kind of screwing around.

• 3:19:17Joe Rogan?

  And then he'd get serious.

• 3:19:17Speaker 02

  But then he would get serious for the last little bit. And, and all of his kids would come out, all of his guys he coached. And I mean, he was just a, ah, gosh, I wish he would have been.

• 3:19:26Joe Rogan?

  Like, when he was like 70, how far away was he from guys who were 30?

• 3:19:30Speaker 02

  He knocked me out of the Olympic trial finals in 2004 and he was 40, gosh, he was probably 45, 46 years. He was like, a little bit younger than me now, but I was 27 and in my prime.

• 3:19:45Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 3:19:46Speaker 02

  And, and he would, that would have been his sixth Olympic trial.

• 3:19:52Speaker 02

  And you're just like, but it's Judd, right? Like, he's a mythical Bill Brasky creature. Like, he's, he's Judd. And you're just like, dang it. Judd's gonna figure out a way to figure out a way. And he just generally, his fourth Olympic-

• 3:20:05Joe Rogan?

  So how many age-class world records did he hold?

• 3:20:07Speaker 02

  Uh, he went 50, 55, and 60. And then he, he passed away a couple of years ago. Actually, he got, uh, had cancer and then he had some COVID, um, COVID complications. It sucked, man. I mean, you talk about a guy that's just that statuesque, like, best conversationalist, like, poured into all these kids and stuff. And you're just like, he's the coach you always wanted to have, you know? And you're just like, ah, but- Things happen.

• 3:20:34Joe Rogan?

  It's interesting when you watch the way different people live their life. Cause you could see benefits and you could see where it would be a detriment to the rest of your life. And it allows us to look through these mythical creatures like that guy, these John Jones type characters, these Carl Gochas and go, but is that what I want to do?

• 3:20:52Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 3:20:53Joe Rogan?

  You should know what you want to do. Don't get tricked into doing something you don't want to do. Cause there's people out there that really want to do that. And if you don't really want to do that, you're never going to beat them anyway.

• 3:21:03Speaker 02

  Ever.

• 3:21:03Joe Rogan?

  Ever.

• 3:21:04Speaker 02

  You're already most likely not going to.

• 3:21:07Joe Rogan?

  Right, already most likely not going to, but if you're not really sure, you're fucked.

• 3:21:10Speaker 02

  You're dead in the water.

• 3:21:11Joe Rogan?

  If you got one foot in, guess what, bitch? You're gonna get, that foot's gonna be snatched up by a crocodile.

• 3:21:16Speaker 02

  One foot in the grave and one on a roller skate.

• 3:21:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you can't, you can't compete with a really obsessed talented person if you're not really obsessed and talented.

• 3:21:25Speaker 02

  And the weird part is, is when you, you look at yourself and kind of question that, like, am I a 90% guy? And some people aren't either. Some people are like, I don't care what happens, man, I'd be average. And that just sounds horrible, right?

• 3:21:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that doesn't sound like you're gonna get anywhere and you're not gonna be interesting.

• 3:21:40Speaker 02

  Not in the least.

• 3:21:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's, that's the problem. Like, you're not gonna attract other interesting people, cause they're not gonna want to be around you.

• 3:21:46Speaker 02

  Right, and the biggest part.

• 3:21:46Joe Rogan?

  Unless you're really funny.

• 3:21:47Speaker 02

  Well, that's helpful.

• 3:21:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:21:49Speaker 02

  The biggest part about being interesting is being interested.

• 3:21:51Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:21:52Speaker 02

  You know? Ask a lot of questions, be interested in this crap. Like, that's where I think one of your superpowers, besides you have a steel trap for a brain, you've recalled things that we've talked about, like, I was like, I didn't know he was listening to that. That was pretty impressive. But, um, the thing is, when you come to that, like, am I a rabbit hole guy? Am I a 90% guy? In my opinion, those are the only two choices. Like, the other ones are screw those. But when you kind of like, really look at like, have you ever seen like where your line really is?

• 3:22:23Joe Rogan?

  My line?

• 3:22:24Speaker 02

  Your line, like when. Like you're like, I, I will go this far.

• 3:22:29Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:22:30Speaker 02

  But that's as far as I'll go.

• 3:22:31Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:22:31Speaker 02

  Like down that rabbit hole to whatever that is, or whatever stressor, or whatever that may be.

• 3:22:36Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:22:37Speaker 02

  And uh, it's weird. I hadn't done it and, and in recent, like, I had an experience. It was like, okay, there's my life. Okay, that, that's, that's.

• 3:22:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, what, what did you do?

• 3:22:47Speaker 02

  I was in Africa and um, and, and I was hunting Cape buffalo, which is the most dangerous thing.

• 3:22:53Joe Rogan?

  With bow or rifle?

• 3:22:54Speaker 02

  Rifle, but still it, it's one of those things. You get in there close and everyone's like, go with the bow, right?

• 3:22:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you could die. Yeah.

• 3:23:00Speaker 02

  He died. It was pretty hairy. It kills more people than everyone. And we had.

• 3:23:04Joe Rogan?

  What do they taste like?

• 3:23:05Speaker 02

  They're actually awesome. We did the interloins that night.

• 3:23:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:23:08Speaker 02

  In Namibia. It was fantastic. And that cool part about that is we donated the meat uh, to the local village and they were super stoked. Wild part is after we gutted it, there's like, you know, four hundred pounds of guts on a buffalo. And I'm like, are y'all gonna like truck this out to the desert or out to the place and like let the hyenas in? They're like, no, the villagers are taking. I was like, the guts. And they said, yeah, no, like there will be a party tonight. No, no running water. Hearts, lungs, liver, stomach. You know, guts.

• 3:23:38Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:23:38Speaker 02

  And they go, they will be so excited to get that. And so that was a, for me, I go, oh, we think we understand poverty. We think we understand in this country, like, what not having. We're like, oh yeah, I didn't have a whatever. Like, no. This village is stoked to get four hundred pounds of guts off a Cape buffalo that's been laying in, in the woods dead for the last ten hours.

• 3:24:03Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 3:24:04Speaker 02

  They were pumped.

• 3:24:05Joe Rogan?

  Old guts.

• 3:24:06Speaker 02

  Old guts, old hot guts. We put a tarp over it so before we could get back out there to get the bull out of the, you know, out of the jungle or whatever it would be called. So, so it didn't get super hot, but struck a big, black, two thousand pound animal.

• 3:24:19Joe Rogan?

  What are they doing with the guts? How are they eating it?

• 3:24:21Speaker 02

  They said they'll, they'll wash out all the fluids or all the guts, shit and everything else. And they'll put it on the grill and fry it and do all this. Like, they said protein does not go to, to waste in Africa at all.

• 3:24:32Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 3:24:32Speaker 02

  So I'm like, you guys are gonna, of course, eat a heart. But they're like, yeah, they're eating heart, lungs, liver. Kidneys, like anything like.

• 3:24:39Joe Rogan?

  What does lungs taste like?

• 3:24:41Speaker 02

  Boy, I don't know. I don't know if I wanna know.

• 3:24:43Joe Rogan?

  I've always thought about it.

• 3:24:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:24:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because like when you.

• 3:24:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:24:46Joe Rogan?

  Open up an elk, you look at it like, can you eat this? Like, what does this taste like?

• 3:24:50Speaker 02

  Have you eaten heart?

• 3:24:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, oh, I eat heart every time. I love heart. I eat lung, I mean, uh, liver, other, I eat the liver and I eat the heart.

• 3:24:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, you know.

• 3:24:58Joe Rogan?

  It seems like lungs are no, I've never heard anybody.

• 3:25:02Speaker 02

  And, and then stomach and stomach line, I guess that's what, what haggis is, right?

• 3:25:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:25:06Speaker 02

  Haggis lungs and.

• 3:25:08Joe Rogan?

  You know what I know a lot of guys do? They take the call fat from the, and then they chop up meat and then they'll wrap it in the call fat and put it on the grill.

• 3:25:16Speaker 02

  Rinella did that, didn't he? That looked really cool.

• 3:25:19Joe Rogan?

  Look real good. Season it and then wrap it in call fat and then slice it open.

• 3:25:23Speaker 02

  We ate the interloins and they were really good, but they were talking about how the, the villagers out there, they're like, yeah, all this meat that these hunters get, like it all goes to the villages. I'm thinking people understand like. How much that changes the game.

• 3:25:35Joe Rogan?

  So when you say your line, what did you mean by that?

• 3:25:37Speaker 02

  Well, they had another, another opportunity, uh, to do a lion hunt.

• 3:25:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, I'm not interested.

• 3:25:44Speaker 02

  And that was my line.

• 3:25:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:25:45Speaker 02

  It was like, yeah, for multiple reasons.

• 3:25:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, first of all, you're not gonna eat it.

• 3:25:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:25:49Joe Rogan?

  You could, I mean, I know dudes who eat mountain lions, it's delicious. Mountain lion is actually really good, according to everybody that I know that's eaten it. They're not lying.

• 3:25:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:25:59Joe Rogan?

  There's people that are iffy on bear.

• 3:26:01Speaker 02

  I, I enjoy bear, the rivets, of course, they.

• 3:26:03Joe Rogan?

  They know how to cook it.

• 3:26:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:26:05Joe Rogan?

  But the reality of lion is, I don't think anybody's out there eating African lions.

• 3:26:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, right, and they're just a multitude, I mean, they're a big, I mean, I got nothing against the lion to start with.

• 3:26:15Joe Rogan?

  They're too cool.

• 3:26:16Speaker 02

  They're cool, but they're, they're big, they're scary, they hide really well, they're really fast.

• 3:26:21Joe Rogan?

  They're dope.

• 3:26:21Speaker 02

  There's a lot of stuff.

• 3:26:22Joe Rogan?

  Didn't exist, you'd be pumped. They've, if you, like, if somebody put one of those in a movie, like, what a cool, awesome animal, you know?

• 3:26:28Speaker 02

  So it's just like, okay, like, for multitude of reasons, like, I'm, I'm a hunter guy, I enjoy, it's like, okay, not that one, okay? And then not this, and then you start looking at even training, you're like, hey, I'll do this, but I won't do that.

• 3:26:40Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:26:40Speaker 02

  And, um.

• 3:26:41Joe Rogan?

  I don't wanna shoot anything that I'm not gonna eat. I'm not interested in that. I'm not interested in going to hunt something that's inedible. I just don't get it. I get how people wanna do it, but I feel like the same about fishing. Like, I don't wanna catch stuff that you can't eat.

• 3:26:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, you fish a good bit, don't you?

• 3:26:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I love fishing.

• 3:26:56Speaker 02

  What's your favorite thing to fish?

• 3:26:58Joe Rogan?

  Uh, I mean, if I really had the time and I don't, it would be like salmon fishing in a river.

• 3:27:06Speaker 02

  Really?

• 3:27:06Joe Rogan?

  That's some of the most fun because they're so big and they're so strong. And the way they jump. And there's something about rivers, like ocean's cool. I love ocean fishing, but it's like less personal.

• 3:27:16Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 3:27:17Joe Rogan?

  There's something about being on a small boat on a river and you hook a salmon.

• 3:27:23Joe Rogan?

  You see it jump, like my friend Ari and I, we went up to Anchorage a few years back and we did a show. We did some salmon fishing. It was really fun. And then I've done a lot of trout fishing. I love bass fishing.

• 3:27:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:27:38Joe Rogan?

  Bass fishing is always fun. Topwater.

• 3:27:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah. Late summer.

• 3:27:42Joe Rogan?

  Watch them smash that.

• 3:27:43Speaker 02

  That's the best. Big frog going across a lily pad.

• 3:27:46Joe Rogan?

  It's fun.

• 3:27:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. Have you ever done a, um, I probably would be a bad idea for you, but like I put a green light under my dock in my house.

• 3:27:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 3:27:56Speaker 02

  Dude, cheat code.

• 3:27:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, and they all come to it.

• 3:27:59Speaker 02

  Coolest thing.

• 3:28:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:28:01Speaker 02

  So in the, in the spring and, you know, February through March, April, and then right now they're happening again. The striped bass will school under it.

• 3:28:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh, whoa.

• 3:28:10Speaker 02

  And it's like, you know, you're catching four to 15 pound fish every night, every night. And so I'll sit up at the house and I'll, uh, yeah, no, seriously. So I'll be with the wife and she will have a glass of wine. I was like, all right, we'll go to bed. And I was like, well, I'm gonna go fish. She's like, you're going fishing now? I said, I'll be back. Don't worry. And cause you only get like two or three casts before they blow off the light. But you're going to catch two or three fish every night on the first two or three casts.

• 3:28:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 3:28:35Speaker 02

  Which is awesome.

• 3:28:36Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a great way to get food.

• 3:28:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. No. So you go catch a seven or eight pound striper, gut him, throw him in the ice and then do it. So I would literally fish, catch my two or three fish, and sometimes I got in one of those fly fishing for him. So you catch like a 10 pound striper on a fly rod, which is badass.

• 3:28:51Joe Rogan?

  Dude, I went to Mexico once and we, uh, went mahi mahi fishing.

• 3:28:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:28:55Joe Rogan?

  And then they cooked it within an hour of us catching it.

• 3:28:58Speaker 02

  Son.

• 3:28:59Joe Rogan?

  I was like, oh my God, this is so much better than any fish I've ever had before. And then you realize that the more time it waits after it's dead, it goes to supermarkets, hits on a. So you lose all that.

• 3:29:09Speaker 02

  You lose it.

• 3:29:10Joe Rogan?

  The flavor of them right when they pull up, I'm like, this is the best fish I've ever had in my life. It's incredible. It was so delicious.

• 3:29:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, that's the best. You you need to get one of those those green lights under dock.

• 3:29:22Joe Rogan?

  Sounds like fun.

• 3:29:23Speaker 02

  Oh, man. Deep Glow is the one. I'll send you the link for it. Super easy to do. And mine kicks on right before before dark.

• 3:29:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, nice.

• 3:29:32Speaker 02

  And or if you get up early because they have the longest time to school on it. And so they're like, everything's silent. You go out there and smash a couple of sun comes up. It's great.

• 3:29:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's a good move.

• 3:29:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:29:44Speaker 02

  It makes you actually a bad fisherman because after that you're just like, I don't feel like going out. Like, I'll just catch them tonight.

• 3:29:50Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:29:51Speaker 02

  And then everyone starts like marking your spots.

• 3:29:53Joe Rogan?

  It's like the guys out here that hunt over deer feeders.

• 3:29:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, it works.

• 3:29:57Joe Rogan?

  It does work.

• 3:29:58Speaker 02

  It works.

• 3:29:59Joe Rogan?

  But they'll they'll tell you like, well, we hunt, but it's.

• 3:30:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:30:02Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of it's kind of like farming.

• 3:30:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's fun.

• 3:30:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:30:06Speaker 02

  It's just different.

• 3:30:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:30:07Speaker 02

  It's not elk.

• 3:30:08Joe Rogan?

  No, it's definitely, I mean, you're sitting down the whole day, waiting, eating chips.

• 3:30:13Speaker 02

  It's good. It's a good time to check or catch up with emails, talk to your friends.

• 3:30:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:30:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:30:18Joe Rogan?

  That's the, there's a lot of that, like the ground blind guys, like to sit in ground blinds all day. It's a totally different thing.

• 3:30:24Speaker 02

  I did it this morning.

• 3:30:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's fun.

• 3:30:26Speaker 02

  I did it. I enjoyed it. It was all it was fantastic.

• 3:30:29Joe Rogan?

  It's a great way to pig hunt.

• 3:30:30Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:30:31Joe Rogan?

  You know.

• 3:30:31Speaker 02

  I stuck one two nights ago.

• 3:30:33Joe Rogan?

  The thing about pigs out here, too, is like they actually have to hunt them.

• 3:30:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:30:37Joe Rogan?

  It's like you're you're actually doing a service to the environment by getting food.

• 3:30:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:30:41Joe Rogan?

  And if you get a good butcher that can turn that into sausage, it's fucking fantastic.

• 3:30:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, my actually, my little boy, he killed his first pig last week. Uh, he's eight years old.

• 3:30:52Joe Rogan?

  What was it like when you ate it?

• 3:30:53Speaker 02

  It was awesome. We did it for Thanksgiving.

• 3:30:54Joe Rogan?

  When he's like, wow.

• 3:30:55Speaker 02

  He's so super cool. So we yanked the back straps out. We, uh, I I marinated in Coke for like six, uh, thirty six hours.

• 3:31:03Joe Rogan?

  Coca Cola.

• 3:31:04Speaker 02

  Coca Cola.

• 3:31:05Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 3:31:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I kind of broke it down. I learned that from Jen Rivet. So she would do bear with like Dr. Pepper.

• 3:31:11Joe Rogan?

  No kidding.

• 3:31:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:31:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they know how to cook some bears up there.

• 3:31:13Speaker 02

  You know that work, you know.

• 3:31:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:31:15Speaker 02

  So we did that and then like made a kind of like butter and all this kind of cool kind of, kind of drizzly deal, wrapped it in bacon, could wrap pork in bacon and then put it on the grill. It was freaking awesome.

• 3:31:28Joe Rogan?

  Do you know that guy, he's a cook, he's on YouTube, what is it, his name Guga? G U G A, Guga Foods? He's always cooking steak, like different ways to cook steak. But the other way he did it, uh, the other day was he marinated it in buttermilk for like a week.

• 3:31:44Speaker 02

  What?

• 3:31:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, took a steak, marinated in buttermilk for a week and like when he pulled the steak out, like you could see like the buttermilk was breaking the steak down. That's at Guga Foods. That dude. See if you can find his buttermilk steak one. Oh, he's cooks a brisket in Coca-Cola. This guy is every human way possible to cook a steak. This guy's done it.

• 3:32:05Speaker 02

  What's your favorite way to cook a steak?

• 3:32:06Joe Rogan?

  I am a reverse here guy.

• 3:32:09Speaker 02

  Same.

• 3:32:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I, I got taught that by, um, Chad from, uh, Whiskey Bent Barbecue.

• 3:32:17Joe Rogan?

  He says that the best way, particularly for wild game, it's without a doubt, it's the best way for wild game. Take it and so here it is with buttermilk. So he did it one for 24 hours and he did one of them where he, he sat in the buttermilk for a week and he said it was sensational. Maybe you want to try X. Yeah, look at that.

• 3:32:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, buttermilk, just pull, we do that with ducks afterwards and pulls out a lot of, a lot of stuff out there.

• 3:32:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this guy knows how to cook some fucking steak.

• 3:32:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 3:32:45Joe Rogan?

  My way is, uh, I like to use the, either Traeger or the best way, honestly, if I have the time, is, uh, I use an offset grill with actual hardwood.

• 3:32:54Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 3:32:54Joe Rogan?

  So I'll cook, you know, get some live oak in there and I'll get it up to about 250 degrees and then I'll put the steaks in there with meat, meter thermometers. And I get it internally up to about 120.

• 3:33:06Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 3:33:06Joe Rogan?

  And then either I sear it on a cast iron pan or I also have one of those, um, infrared things, what are those called again? Fuck, they sent it to me. I should shout them out.

• 3:33:21Joe Rogan?

  I know who Sean Baker uses them all the time, but it's like a tray.

• 3:33:25Speaker 02

  Sean's awesome.

• 3:33:26Joe Rogan?

  It's right, yeah, he's great. And it runs on gas and she just slide it in there and it's like an overhead grill. What is it called? Auto wild grill. That's it. Auto wild grill.

• 3:33:35Speaker 02

  How about Sean being a freak for eating a bunch of meat and being a giant?

• 3:33:40Joe Rogan?

  Seventy years old, he's fucking throwing insane weight around, no TRT, no nothing.

• 3:33:46Speaker 02

  I remember him from the throes days.

• 3:33:48Joe Rogan?

  Oh, do you?

• 3:33:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, we used to compete.

• 3:33:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's a big fucking dude, man.

• 3:33:50Speaker 02

  He's a monster.

• 3:33:51Joe Rogan?

  And he's very smart, you know, and anybody who says you can't only eat meat, you need to pay attention to him because that's all he eats. And he looks super fucking healthy.

• 3:34:00Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 3:34:00Joe Rogan?

  And he's doing jujitsu and training and, you know, he's, he's older than me.

• 3:34:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was at, he spoke at Summer Strong last year and came in and then he was deadlifting with everyone. He pulled like a six something deadlift. And then like four hundred for twenty five reps or something like that. And he's just like, hey, I'm gonna go have another steak. I'm like, and got me kinda on it.

• 3:34:18Joe Rogan?

  He eats steaks all day long. It's all he eats. He doesn't take vitamins, I don't think.

• 3:34:22Speaker 02

  I know you've done carnivore. I was actually, I actually called Sean about it. Cause I was like, all right, I need to like, give this a whirl, but.

• 3:34:29Joe Rogan?

  It's worth it. It's worth doing.

• 3:34:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:34:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's legit.

• 3:34:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:34:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't do it all the time, you know, I'll eat pasta if I feel like it. I'll have vegetables if I feel like, but I would say ninety percent of my food is meat.

• 3:34:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:34:44Joe Rogan?

  Meat or eggs.

• 3:34:45Speaker 02

  Meat or eggs, yeah.

• 3:34:46Joe Rogan?

  I think that's the most nutrient dense food. My body reacts better when I'm not running on carbohydrates or running on ketones or, you know, when your body processes protein and turns it into glucose, which is like just more regulated for me, for me, you know, you do whatever you want, but, I would say try it. If you're a person that eats meat, I would say give it a shot. Just give it a month, one month. I did one time I lost twelve pounds. I felt fucking great. I had all this energy and I was like, oh, okay, I'm poisoning myself. I'm like limiting my, limiting my performance, at least my mental performance.

• 3:35:19Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah, I started getting on it a month or two ago, just a bit. I was like, yeah, I'll give it a shot. I was eating a ton of venison. But gosh, I love blackberries. Blackberries and cottage cheese, I think are like the weirdest thing that I just, I could eat it.

• 3:35:32Joe Rogan?

  I don't think there's anything wrong with fruit. You know, that's like Paul Saladino's move. I eat fruit. So what Paul does is he incorporates fruit, honey and raw dairy with meat.

• 3:35:42Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:35:43Joe Rogan?

  And then Sean just eats meat, you know, but. I can't imagine an argument where fruit's bad for you. I would say don't eat all the fruit.

• 3:35:52Speaker 02

  That's the problem.

• 3:35:53Joe Rogan?

  Have a couple oranges, or have a couple bananas, or a bowl of blueberries with some yogurt. Why is that bad? It can't be bad.

• 3:35:59Speaker 02

  Can't be bad, right?

• 3:36:00Joe Rogan?

  No. They're, they're good for you. They're, they're filled with vitamins. They taste good. It's like, it's also, it's enjoyable to eat a piece of melon. It tastes good. It's fun.

• 3:36:08Speaker 02

  Again, I'm not trying to be the goat at not eating blueberries.

• 3:36:12Joe Rogan?

  I think the number one thing is don't eat bullshit. And when you go on a carnivore diet, you are automatically cutting out a lot of bullshit. You're cutting out a lot of like enriched wheat and processed fucking grains and all this bullshit and you're cutting out pesticides that might be on your, your shit. There's a lot of things you're cutting out when you're just eating steak.

• 3:36:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you eat a lot of whitetail or no?

• 3:36:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, if I get one. I have one in the freezer now.

• 3:36:41Speaker 02

  Nineteen elk a year?

• 3:36:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, two. But I got, I got two whitetails last year too. I turned them into sausages and I, you know, cooked the back straps and butter and garlic. Oh, back straps and butter and garlic. That's one that I, a lot of times I just like to cook on a cast iron pan.

• 3:37:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:37:00Joe Rogan?

  Especially whitetail. There's something about whitetail tenderloins with butter and garlic. That is hard to beat.

• 3:37:08Speaker 02

  That's my kid's favorite food.

• 3:37:10Joe Rogan?

  So hard to beat. A little salt, garlic, butter.

• 3:37:14Speaker 02

  Cracked pepper. So stupid good.

• 3:37:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god. So good.

• 3:37:18Speaker 02

  My son and I will eat like easily a full loin, like.

• 3:37:21Joe Rogan?

  And you feel fantastic. You feel like, you feel the vitamins in the meat, you know? It's like, that's what an animal is supposed to make you feel like when you eat it.

• 3:37:30Speaker 02

  Whitetail gets like a bad name. It's like, oh, just a whitetail. Whitetails are great.

• 3:37:34Joe Rogan?

  People are silly.

• 3:37:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, they are.

• 3:37:36Joe Rogan?

  People are so silly when it comes to, I know people don't even eat their elk. They donate their elk. They go elk hunting and then they donate it to the church.

• 3:37:42Speaker 02

  A lot of work for.

• 3:37:44Joe Rogan?

  They just like to hunt. Which I, I mean, I guess it's okay because you're providing people with free food and it doesn't go to waste, but. It's the best food in the world and you're not eating it?

• 3:37:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, the best.

• 3:37:54Joe Rogan?

  That seems so crazy to me.

• 3:37:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:37:56Joe Rogan?

  You know, I cook up every week. I cook up like a bunch of elk meat in a bunch of different ways. And then I have it in the fridge. So that's my meal prep for the week.

• 3:38:04Speaker 02

  I saw that. Do you eat it cold?

• 3:38:05Joe Rogan?

  Cold with hot sauce.

• 3:38:07Speaker 02

  Is that the move?

• 3:38:08Joe Rogan?

  I like to take a plate, a hu- a plate.

• 3:38:10Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 3:38:10Joe Rogan?

  Put some meat on there, dump some hot sauce on the plate and just dip it in the hot sauce and eat it cold.

• 3:38:15Speaker 02

  Any good hot sauce? Any specific?

• 3:38:17Joe Rogan?

  Well, I like it hot. Um, I actually have my own, uh, little collaboration that I did with Senor La Chuga.

• 3:38:23Speaker 02

  I saw that, yeah, yeah.

• 3:38:24Joe Rogan?

  Just three different hot sauces. One of them, uh, comes from my friend Andrew at, uh, Half Face Blades. He had one, it was so good, that I said, can I include that one? Cause I'm doing a collab- collaboration. We made an agreement. So it's like, it has the Half Face Blades logo on it as well. That's with, um, sun dried peppers.

• 3:38:42Speaker 02

  I saw that.

• 3:38:42Joe Rogan?

  Tell you what all the stuff is. See, go to the Senor La Chuga.

• 3:38:45Speaker 02

  I made my son, uh, I got Andy to make me a Half Face Blade. For me, my dad and my two boys, so they all matching. And the goal of it was you either carry your dad's, your son's, or your, or your brother's knife. So we all switch.

• 3:38:58Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 3:38:58Speaker 02

  And I cut my, uh, my son who's eight years old now, I cut his umbilical cord with his knife. Which was, yeah, which is weird. I sent that to Andy.

• 3:39:05Joe Rogan?

  That's heavy.

• 3:39:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was awesome. And I rubbed his first drop of blood into the handle.

• 3:39:09Joe Rogan?

  You give him that knife. So heirloom tomatoes, winter truffle and reapers.

• 3:39:13Speaker 02

  Now we're talking.

• 3:39:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's Andy's. And that one fucking rules. But the other ones rule too. The, uh, Habanera, Urfa Chili, Paprika. That's a fucking banger. And, but these are hot, hot sauces.

• 3:39:26Speaker 02

  Where can I buy these now?

• 3:39:27Joe Rogan?

  SenorLaChuga.com.

• 3:39:28Speaker 02

  Sweet.

• 3:39:28Joe Rogan?

  SenorLaChugaHotSauce.com, brother.

• 3:39:31Speaker 02

  Awesome. Have you ever done a deer leg?

• 3:39:33Joe Rogan?

  If you can.

• 3:39:34Speaker 02

  Uh, I'm not like a hot, hot. I'm like a tasty.

• 3:39:36Joe Rogan?

  It's tasty, but it's gonna fuck you up if you're not ready.

• 3:39:40Speaker 02

  It's really like that?

• 3:39:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's real. Like he, that, that guy makes hot sauce. It's, it's got reapers in it. Like, it's legit. It, it, it kicks your ass. I sweat. My kids make fun of me because, you know, I'm bald. So like, when I sweat, it's just pouring down my face.

• 3:39:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:39:56Joe Rogan?

  They're like, what is wrong with you?

• 3:39:57Speaker 02

  It's like, I'm a sweater.

• 3:39:59Joe Rogan?

  Hot peppers.

• 3:39:59Speaker 02

  Have you ever done a deer leg, like the flip flop style? Have you ever seen the, uh?

• 3:40:03Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean?

• 3:40:04Speaker 02

  Andy the flip flop guy. I'll have to cook it for you sometime. So badass. So you get a deer leg with a shank still on it.

• 3:40:10Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:40:10Speaker 02

  Super hot grill, um.

• 3:40:12Joe Rogan?

  Put it on the coals?

• 3:40:14Speaker 02

  Like, well, the grill's like hottest shit.

• 3:40:16Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 3:40:16Speaker 02

  Eleven hundred or he's like cooking, right, blasting. So he has this special sauce and his, his granddad, I believe, started it. It's this special sauce that's like, uh.

• 3:40:27Joe Rogan?

  The way to flip flop.

• 3:40:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:40:29Joe Rogan?

  Best way to grill venison. Alright, let me see what you got.

• 3:40:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you basically get this sauce, you mix it with, um, you mix it with wine. You paint it with a rosemary brush, you salt and pepper it, and then you flip it, you just put it down on the grill. Thirty seconds.

• 3:40:47Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 3:40:48Speaker 02

  While you're cooking that side, you're painting the other side, salt and pepper it, and you flip it, you shave the first quarter inch.

• 3:40:55Joe Rogan?

  Ah.

• 3:40:56Speaker 02

  And then so that size, and so the longest it takes you to shave the first quarter inch, repaint it, re-salt and pepper it, and then you flip it. And so when you're in it, you're in, you're gonna consume an entire deer leg in the next hour and a half, and you're in the, you're in it.

• 3:41:08Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you know what that's like?

• 3:41:10Speaker 02

  So freaking good.

• 3:41:10Joe Rogan?

  Brazilian steakhouse.

• 3:41:11Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 3:41:12Joe Rogan?

  Like a Chihuahua.

• 3:41:12Speaker 02

  But it just boom, boom, boom, boom. So we'll do it at parties. And you're like, you get a couple dudes, get your boys, and you're all drinking some bourbon.

• 3:41:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, look at that.

• 3:41:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:41:21Joe Rogan?

  And just slicing pieces off.

• 3:41:23Speaker 02

  And this is so good, man.

• 3:41:25Joe Rogan?

  That looks sensational.

• 3:41:26Speaker 02

  It's ridiculous.

• 3:41:27Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my god.

• 3:41:27Speaker 02

  He taught me how to do it, and I've actually gone to a couple of events and like helped him out, but I've cooked him at birthday parties and.

• 3:41:33Joe Rogan?

  Wow, that's a great idea.

• 3:41:34Speaker 02

  It's so dope.

• 3:41:35Joe Rogan?

  You know what I'm gonna do? I'm supposed to hunt with Rinella in March.

• 3:41:41Joe Rogan?

  Maybe we'll try that.

• 3:41:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. If you want me to know, I'll, I'll freaking cook one for you.

• 3:41:45Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure you could do that with any other wild game too.

• 3:41:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, we've done it with sheep, we've done, elk is kind of a monster.

• 3:41:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's such a big leg.

• 3:41:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:41:51Joe Rogan?

  But if you have a smaller sort of.

• 3:41:53Speaker 02

  That is, that's the, that's the move, and now you'll paint it. And then you'll salt pepper in it, big ass knife like that, so you don't burn your knuckles.

• 3:42:00Joe Rogan?

  That looks fucking great.

• 3:42:02Speaker 02

  It's insane.

• 3:42:03Joe Rogan?

  And what is in the sauce again?

• 3:42:04Speaker 02

  Uh, he won't tell me exactly, but it's.

• 3:42:06Joe Rogan?

  The fuck?

• 3:42:07Speaker 02

  Come on, Andy, get with it.

• 3:42:09Joe Rogan?

  Um, he won't tell you.

• 3:42:10Speaker 02

  But it's.

• 3:42:11Joe Rogan?

  How bullshit is that?

• 3:42:12Speaker 02

  It has all kinds of.

• 3:42:14Joe Rogan?

  So there it is. Um, two bottles of private reserve are flagship sauce. Oh, it's the sauce.

• 3:42:19Speaker 02

  Well, it's the sauce, yeah.

• 3:42:21Joe Rogan?

  Won't tell you what's in the sauce.

• 3:42:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:42:22Joe Rogan?

  One bottle of red wine, Cabernet or Zinfandel will work depending on if you're non-binary. Salt and pepper to taste, one quarter cup to one half bottle of rosemary infused olive oil. Boy, that's a big gap. Quarter cup to a half bottle.

• 3:42:36Speaker 02

  It's like a glug, glug, glug. And then you drink bourbon.

• 3:42:38Joe Rogan?

  Three to four loaves of French bread, several sprigs of fresh rosemary.

• 3:42:42Speaker 02

  It's awesome.

• 3:42:43Joe Rogan?

  Sounds pretty fucking good.

• 3:42:44Speaker 02

  Dude, it's.

• 3:42:45Joe Rogan?

  Bert, I think we did like three hours and 20 minutes. How long have we done? Up, more? Three, three and a half? Three thirty?

• 3:42:52Speaker 02

  Let's know, Evan Hafer, but.

• 3:42:53Joe Rogan?

  Dude, time just flew by.

• 3:42:54Speaker 02

  It's super fun.

• 3:42:55Joe Rogan?

  It was a lot of fun, man. Thank you very much. Thanks for your awesome equipment, too.

• 3:42:57Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 3:42:58Joe Rogan?

  I just tell everybody you outfitted my gym at home. It's fucking incredible.

• 3:43:01Speaker 02

  Thanks, man.

• 3:43:02Joe Rogan?

  Keeps me from going nuts. It's the best. I, I love all your equipment. It's fucking so fantastic. You know what I use like almost every day is that, um, Frankenhyper?

• 3:43:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:43:11Joe Rogan?

  That thing is so versatile.

• 3:43:13Speaker 02

  Back feeling better?

• 3:43:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's so great. It's such a good device because you can do reverse hypers, you can do back extensions, you could do sit-ups off of it. You do so many different things off of it.

• 3:43:23Speaker 02

  I'll have a new module come in. We're relaunching it. So if you want, bring your old one here and I'll put the new one in your house.

• 3:43:29Joe Rogan?

  What are you gonna do? What is the?

• 3:43:30Speaker 02

  It has some, um, some assisted and resisted abilities. So you could do some, some, if you're not quite as strong, you're comeback, return to play. So there's some different stuff that you could do with it.

• 3:43:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 3:43:42Speaker 02

  It's cool.

• 3:43:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, you're very innovative, man. Your stuff is really cool.

• 3:43:45Speaker 02

  Thanks a lot.

• 3:43:46Joe Rogan?

  And you, you've also outfitted the whole UFC PI center. Like, go there, it's all Sorex shit. It's cool.

• 3:43:52Speaker 02

  You're trying, man.

• 3:43:53Joe Rogan?

  Whenever I go to a gym and I see Sorex, it makes me feel happy. It's cool.

• 3:43:56Speaker 02

  I appreciate it. It makes, I'll be honest, it makes me feel really happy when I see you wear Sorex shirts. It's like, man, that's dope. Like, I appreciate that.

• 3:44:03Joe Rogan?

  My pleasure, brother.

• 3:44:03Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 3:44:04Joe Rogan?

  All right, um, website?

• 3:44:05Speaker 02

  Uh, sorinex.com.

• 3:44:07Joe Rogan?

  sorinex.com. Um, there is the UFC PI. That's all Sorex equipment. Um, social media, what's your, what's your Instagram?

• 3:44:15Speaker 02

  I'm Bert Soren.

• 3:44:16Joe Rogan?

  All right. And there's the new machine, the X Factor, that we just got today here at the studio. All right, my brother. Thank you very much.

• 3:44:23Speaker 02

  Thank you, Jeff.

• 3:44:23Joe Rogan?

  All right, bye, everybody.