Should I Confront My Father About His Infidelity?

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  My mom had found out that he was living a double life, dating another woman. She found a couple other cell phones and such. How do you go forth with forgiving somebody to that extent where this is my father, my role model?

• 0:21Dr. John Delony?

  I hope to God he's not your role model.

• 0:29Dr. John Delony?

  What's up? What's going on? This is John, the Dr. John Deloney Show, coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee. I'm glad that you are here. Talking with real people about real challenges, your mental and emotional health, your marriages, your relationships, whatever you've got going on, kids, parents, all of it. If you want to be on the show, go to johndeloney.com/ask or click the link in the show notes and it will take you right to the Ask page. Let's go out to Philadelphia and talk to B I double L. What's up, Bill?

• 1:00Speaker 00

  How are you, Dr. John?

• 1:01Dr. John Delony?

  I'm good, brother. How are you, man?

• 1:03Speaker 00

  Good, good. Appreciate you having me on. Thank you.

• 1:05Dr. John Delony?

  Of course. What's up?

• 1:07Speaker 00

  So I have a question about forgiveness and I guess, in a sense, confrontation and how to confront a family situation with my father. So it has to do with infidelity. Eight years ago in 2018, my mom had found out that he was living a double life. He was having an affair and in a sense, I guess, dating another woman. She found a couple other cell phones and such on a family vacation. And they went through a quick divorce. It was about two, three months, had to move out of my childhood home. There was a lot of lies that my mom found out in the process. I tried to stay out of it. I didn't talk to my dad for two years.

• 1:52Speaker 00

  I started talking to him again in 2021. And we have an on and off relationship. You know, I still don't really trust him after all that. But back in 2021, my wife and I had to move into my dad's home for about a year. We were displaced, our home got destroyed in a storm out here on the East Coast. And I found a bunch of pictures and such with him and this other woman he was living the double life with dating back to about 10 years prior to when he was apparently honest and told my mom he had started seeing this woman. So he was living a double life for almost close to a decade. From those dates. So I don't, my question for you is how, how do you go forth with forgiving

• 2:33Speaker 00

  somebody to that extent where, you know, this is, you know, a fa- my father, you know, my role model, a male figure who's been in my life for, you know, all these years and, um, how do, how would I go about confronting him and, and asking him why he did what he did?

• 2:50Dr. John Delony?

  Um, I think you have to get to the motivation behind what you're seeking.

• 2:56Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:57Dr. John Delony?

  Um, so. I hope to God he's not your role model.

• 3:03Speaker 00

  Well, he used to be.

• 3:04Dr. John Delony?

  Well, there you go. And that, that's my point is, what, often we have this feeling, this sense that we're gonna have this big confrontation. You've probably dressed a hearse to this conversation a thousand times, probably 10,000 times. I'm gonna say this, he's gonna bow his head and be like, I'm so sorry. And you're gonna like, be heard and be said, there's gonna be this cathartic moment for both of you, and then it will clear the deck for this future relationship.

• 3:32Dr. John Delony?

  Almost zero percent chance that happens.

• 3:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:36Dr. John Delony?

  And so then you have to ask yourself, have I grieved the fact that I anchored into a man who was not who he said he was?

• 3:46Dr. John Delony?

  And deal with the onion that is, layer by layer, what I anchored into was never real in the first place. Or parts of it were real. He did show up to work every day and provide for our family. He did give me school tuition. He did buy me shoes. I mean, he did some, he did stuff like that. And he also lied and cheat, cheated, and then lied more and was deceptive.

• 4:16Dr. John Delony?

  Like both and, the complexity of it all. But if you, if you wanna figure out how to forgive so that everything moves forward, Rosie, that's not, that's not an honest picture of forgiveness. If you wanna have a big fight just to make sure that this man knows how you feel, you can do that. You're a grown man, you can do whatever you want. I, I, I've never heard somebody have that confrontation and say it felt as good as they thought it was going to. And didn't walk away feeling more small than before the conversation.

• 4:50Dr. John Delony?

  I've not, I've not met that person.

• 4:53Speaker 00

  Right, right, yep.

• 4:55Dr. John Delony?

  And so I think you have to ask yourself, what are you hoping to accomplish? Are you trying to, do you want to have a relationship with him moving forward?

• 5:03Speaker 00

  So, like I said, we, we, we have, we have a relationship in the sense of, we talk a couple of times a week. He, you know, he'll, he'll stop over. He sees obviously his grandkids. He sees my daughters. We don't really have those like in-depth, you know, long talks that we used to have, obviously. You know, prior to all of this coming out eight years ago, um, because there's obviously mistrust there.

• 5:28Dr. John Delony?

  We, so I'm assuming he's taken responsibility, or I wouldn't let this man around my daughters.

• 5:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, he, in a sense, right now, but the thing is, I don't really know how, I don't really know what I believe, if that makes sense, because, you know, we, I guess you still have that, that whole, is he still lying? Right? Is he cheating on the, the woman he's with now? Right? Which it is what it is, right? You know?

• 5:56Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, that's, that's my other, other side of this for me. Um, this is a strange question. Why does it matter to you?

• 6:06Speaker 00

  So if he's cheating on the females with now that he was cheating on my, my mother with, I don't care about that. Right? What I?

• 6:12Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, you do, and that's okay, and you should, but I, but, but I get your sentiment. Like, he's gonna do what he's gonna do. You can't control any of that.

• 6:19Speaker 00

  Right. I, I think it's more or less, the, the, the true thing I care about is, number one, it's, you know, how do you go about, like I said, forgiving those actions on my mom? I, you know, I watched my mom go through years of depression, having to move her out of, you know, even, like I said, a home she built and my father built for, for me and my sisters and things of that sort. And, you know, how do you go about just, I guess, forgiving or even retrusting? I don't know. I guess they, in a situation like this, might go hand in hand. And then, like I said, how do you really ask somebody like that, hey, why did you do this? Right? Were there marital issues, you know, growing up, you know, that, you know, what, what was the motivation? Or the, the motive behind it? That's, I guess, what I want to try to figure out.

• 7:01Dr. John Delony?

  All right. So dude, you, you laid that out perfectly. So kudos to you. Okay? So I, I do think you have three different things going on. So let me parse them apart for you. And I'm going to be overly reductive and I'm going to make it sound super simple. I know each thing I'm about to say is insanely complicated. Okay. Yeah. First and foremost, forgiveness is for you. Yep. Forgiveness is for, is you waking up saying, I'm not going to have the first thought of my, of my day and the last thought of my evening about this man that blew up my family.

• 7:37Dr. John Delony?

  I'm going to stop carrying around the sins of my father.

• 7:41Dr. John Delony?

  Cause I didn't do anything wrong. And you carrying around the sins of your dad impacts your relationship with your wife, with your daughters, with your kids, with your, with your mom, with everybody.

• 7:53Dr. John Delony?

  And so forgiveness is the active action of saying out loud, you don't get a vote in my life anymore.

• 8:03Dr. John Delony?

  And it is a daily practice of stopping the stories when they start, stopping the imaginary conversations when they start and trusting that over time, your body will stop defaulting to them so much.

• 8:17Dr. John Delony?

  But it's saying, you don't get a spot in my backpack anymore. I got too much other important stuff to carry. Yep. That's fair. So that's number one. Number two, um.

• 8:34Dr. John Delony?

  Let, let me answer the third one first.

• 8:38Dr. John Delony?

  You're never going to get a satisfactory answer to why. Okay. You might approach it from this. Um. You might approach it from this way, which is, hey dad, this is a hard conversation I want to have with you, but half of me is you.

• 8:57Dr. John Delony?

  And I love my wife, I love my kids, I can't wrap my head around how this could possibly happen.

• 9:06Dr. John Delony?

  I would love for to hear your side of the story.

• 9:10Dr. John Delony?

  Yep. And maybe he'll give it to you.

• 9:15Dr. John Delony?

  And maybe you'll find out your mom wasn't who you thought she was and you'll feel further just melt your picture of your childhood. I mean, that's what you want to do. It's in my, my guess is you're grasping at how can this guy that I lionized as a young kid actually be so cruel?

• 9:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:39Dr. John Delony?

  But you, you realize that's ultimately a trust question you're asking yourself. How was I so wrong?

• 9:45Speaker 00

  Right, right. It's, it's, yeah.

• 9:47Dr. John Delony?

  And if I was so wrong here, then am I wrong with my wife? Am I wrong with my boss? Am I wrong with my like, it, it sets a stage for I can't trust myself, which is unmooring, right?

• 9:57Speaker 00

  Right. Yeah.

• 9:59Dr. John Delony?

  And I think at some level you have to, you hear me say this all the time. You have to write that 14 year old you a letter and let that kid off the hook. He was a kid.

• 10:08Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 10:09Dr. John Delony?

  And kids are, and sons are supposed to trust their dads.

• 10:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's.

• 10:16Dr. John Delony?

  You're still holding that kid accountable for how you feel as an adult. Let that kid go, man. He was a kid. He got burned.

• 10:24Speaker 00

  Yep. Fair. Yeah.

• 10:27Dr. John Delony?

  And, and by the way, he had to watch a man who's half him

• 10:33Dr. John Delony?

  destroy his mom.

• 10:35Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 10:35Dr. John Delony?

  Displace his children. Cause he wanted to sleep with somebody else. Like the selfishness inherent in that act is so profound and so deep. It, it's hard to wrap your head around, right?

• 10:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's bad. And there was really no remorse. It was, uh, you know, it was so, it was quick. It was, uh, hey, this is what's going on. I'm buying a new house and you guys are adults. See you later type of thing.

• 11:00Dr. John Delony?

  Exactly. So all I have to say is, uh,

• 11:04Dr. John Delony?

  you can approach it that way. I mean, you could approach it in what you want, but I mean, you, that might be a path to take. I, I just want you to be honest about what revelation you're looking for.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 11:14Dr. John Delony?

  And then this, this last thing, this thing in the middle here. So you've got forgiveness on one side and you've got, how do I build trust again? Here's how. You have to give a path as to what trust reestablishment would look like. And he has to choose whether to follow it or not. And I'm going to tell you right now, he will not.

• 11:34Speaker 00

  I kind of assume that. Um, I think, I think a large part of that, you know, um, is I guess there's, there is denial in a situation like this to some extent.

• 11:46Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, and it's painful.

• 11:47Speaker 00

  Or ignorant to that fact. It sucks.

• 11:49Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, it does.

• 11:50Speaker 00

  It's terrible. And, uh,

• 11:51Dr. John Delony?

  Because you want the person that, you want the person that hurt you to take, to come running back.

• 11:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:58Dr. John Delony?

  But the, and the, and the strange paradox is, somebody with the character to do what your dad did to your mom, to you, your siblings, is often not the person with the character that wants to go repair.

• 12:11Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:11Dr. John Delony?

  Right? They put that burden on the person that they hurt. All right. Well, you have to give me a path. That's the most common feedback, like frustration I get from people when I say, you have to establish trust. Like you have to give them a path back, which, and it's like, oh, so I have another thing I have to do? And I get that criticism. It makes sense. Totally get it.

• 12:31Dr. John Delony?

  But, but, but you're gonna have to have a line of, or what?

• 12:35Speaker 00

  Right.

• 12:36Dr. John Delony?

  Which, that's hard, man. Because it might be, your daughters don't get their granddad.

• 12:41Speaker 00

  Right. It's very, it's very tough. And it sucks because it's, hey, why, why do, why do, why do we have to go through, you know, I talk about me and my sisters and even my mom, why do we have to go through, you know, years of, uh, you know, sadness and confusion off of, you know, somebody else's, you know, choices that obviously were extremely selfish.

• 13:03Dr. John Delony?

  Right. And, and is he a guy that would, um, and I feel like I'm just piling up on your old man today. Is he a guy that, if you put this line out and said, Dad, here's what I'm looking for. We have to reestablish full trust here because you're gonna be around my daughters. And he's gonna go, me? What are you talking about? I would never, and be like, hold on, it's bigger than that. It's not just that you cheated on mom. It's that you left a, your ex with nothing. That you were so selfish that you piled your kids out of their own childhood home. Like you forced them out. Mom had to go back to work. Mom went through a mental health crisis, which meant all of us, as your kids went through that.

• 13:46Dr. John Delony?

  That kind of person who would do that to those closest to him, I don't know what that person does with my daughters. Not in a sexual way, but in a trustworthy way.

• 13:58Speaker 00

  Right.

• 13:59Dr. John Delony?

  And so I want to reestablish this. Is he the kind of guy that would then blame you? My son won't even let me see his girls because you're some kind of bad guy?

• 14:09Speaker 00

  So I don't think it would be that. I just, I just think he's, my dad's a very, he's an immigrant from Greece. He's just very old school in a sense of there isn't much conversation to have that's really in depth with him.

• 14:22Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  It's more or less just very black and white.

• 14:24Dr. John Delony?

  Gotcha.

• 14:26Speaker 00

  It's, I don't have time.

• 14:27Dr. John Delony?

  You have to approach it that way then.

• 14:29Speaker 00

  Maybe another lie on top of that. You know what I mean?

• 14:31Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, totally. You have to approach it that way then, which is, I know this is uncomfortable for you and it's uncomfortable for me.

• 14:38Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 14:38Dr. John Delony?

  Just pu- put that discomfort on the table because, because you have to acknowledge it, black or white, right?

• 14:44Speaker 00

  Yep. And, you know, you made a point five, 10 minutes ago in the conversation where you said, you know, you're a grown man, you can do what you want. You have a conversation with him and, you know, sometimes it leads to arguments. We've been there, you know? It hasn't been in the last five, six years, but eight, eight, seven years ago, when this all came forward and emotions were at the tip of the iceberg, there was arguments and there's no obviously good settled in conversations then. It's all screaming and arguments and, and, you know, almost fighting. And it's like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna fight my dad. I'm not gonna physically harm him or anybody. It's, it's, it's, uh, you know, it's like talking to a wall. And I feel like we're like halfway still talking to a wall in a

• 15:29Speaker 00

  sense where we don't know what's the truth or not. When I say we, I mean, my sisters and I, right? There's me and my two sisters. So, you know, nobody has a legit answer. I, you know, I also don't even know if my mom cares at this point to have an answer. And no, obviously, you know, after 35 years of marriage and you find this out, it's, you know, it's, it's a what the heck type thing. But, you know, it's, it's, uh, the, the, the confusing part is, you know, if even if I do confront him, you know, I guess my original question is, how do you learn to trust again? It's a, how do I know what he's even saying is truthful?

• 16:02Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 16:04Speaker 00

  You know?

• 16:04Dr. John Delony?

  Here's the deal. You don't.

• 16:06Speaker 00

  Right.

• 16:07Dr. John Delony?

  And my challenge to you is to not do a bunch of psychological and emotional and mental gymnastics to avoid grief. That gap between what you so desperately want to be true is that somewhere underneath it all, your dad's a good man.

• 16:27Dr. John Delony?

  And the reality that is, he might not be.

• 16:32Dr. John Delony?

  And the human body requires time spent in that gap, if it's true. And it requires sharing that with other people.

• 16:42Dr. John Delony?

  That's why, like, man, I recommend writing letters so often. It's so important to speak that out, to acknowledge, I wanted this to be true. And this is actually what is in reality. It's hard, man.

• 17:00Dr. John Delony?

  But it may be that you are making peace with, I'm never going to know my old man. And I hate that. I'm going to be sad about that for a long time because I would love to get to know him. And it might be that he'll indulge a deep, hard conversation. Probably not, but he might.

• 17:16Dr. John Delony?

  But

• 17:19Dr. John Delony?

  know that forgiveness is different than reestablishing trust is different than wanting this to all go back to the way it was, or to have some magical ending. All those are different things. And that makes it really complicated when you just want to look at your old man and give him a hug and have him be on your side.

• 17:39Dr. John Delony?

  He won't let that happen. Hate this for you, my brother. Thanks for the call, though. Thanks for walking it through with me. I'm really grateful, dude. We come back, a woman asks how to navigate differences with her anti-vax mom without alienating her.

• 17:58Dr. John Delony?

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• 18:41Dr. John Delony?

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• 19:09Dr. John Delony?

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• 19:54Dr. John Delony?

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• 20:32Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go to Boise and talk to Renee. Hey Renee, what's up?

• 20:36Speaker 02

  Hi, Dr. John. How are you?

• 20:38Dr. John Delony?

  I'm doing all right. How are you?

• 20:40Speaker 02

  I'm doing very well. Thank you for asking. It's a pleasure to be on the show.

• 20:43Dr. John Delony?

  Yes, ma'am. It's a pleasure to be with you. What's up?

• 20:46Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, I just wanted to throw my question out there. How can I set boundaries with my anti-vax mom without alienating her?

• 20:54Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, you can't. You can't. I hate to tell you that. Um, that's not how boundaries work.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  Okay, interesting.

• 21:04Dr. John Delony?

  Um, boundaries simply say, I'm establishing what is mine? And what is yours?

• 21:12Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 21:13Dr. John Delony?

  And in this situation, I'm assuming you are not anti-vaxing? Or you're not an anti-vaxxer? Or you know, there's more nuance to this conversation, right?

• 21:23Speaker 02

  That's exactly it. Yeah, I was, I obviously grew up in her house. I believe I was vaccinated as a kid. Um, and it's a conversation my husband and I have.

• 21:31Dr. John Delony?

  Vaccinated injured? That's a new one. Okay, all right. I'm, I'm out of the loop on it. Okay, so you, you, you grew up in a home and you believe like you've had some medical tolls based on getting vaccinated as a kid?

• 21:44Speaker 02

  I believe I had an adverse reaction.

• 21:46Dr. John Delony?

  Gotcha. Okay, gotcha.

• 21:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:48Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 21:48Speaker 02

  But I also know that, yeah, there's more to it than the science that my mom believes in. And, you know, my husband is very, he's very pro, uh, modern medicine and it's a conversation we have. Um, and I'm just sick of my mom thinking she's part of the conversation essentially.

• 22:05Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so a boundary simply says, as for me and my house?

• 22:11Dr. John Delony?

  And then how you communicate that boundary with integrity and respect? And kindness?

• 22:19Dr. John Delony?

  Um, and also whether communicating the boundary can be heard, right? I have a rule that I only speak if someone will listen. If, if, if I could be heard, if, if no one's gonna, if I can't be heard on a topic, um... It's why I don't talk about my political stances because it can't be heard. I will, I will in with imported people behind closed doors, I will with uh like people who are making decisions, but I'm not just gonna put out statements because they're, they're not heard. Right? And so like you get to decide what is, what's your boundary? And then the hard part is your mom can react however she wants.

• 23:02Dr. John Delony?

  And so if she wants to choose alienation over a relationship, she gets to make that choice and that's heartbreaking.

• 23:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:11Dr. John Delony?

  But it might look like something like, hey mom, I've come to believe that this is a more complicated issue. And I fully know your stance. And so as of today, I want us to stop talking about vaccinations.

• 23:29Dr. John Delony?

  I'm asking that of you.

• 23:34Speaker 02

  I'm proud.

• 23:35Dr. John Delony?

  And then she gets to choose whether I, I wanna say this as my grandkid, I get a vote and all that kinda stuff. And then she, she can opt out with her language and or her behavior. That I don't get to interact with my grandkids. I don't get to interact with my son-in-law because I'm making the choice to violate my daughter's boundaries.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  That's what I was scared of.

• 23:58Dr. John Delony?

  The other side of this is um.

• 24:04Dr. John Delony?

  What is the true impact?

• 24:07Dr. John Delony?

  Cause we have a, also have what I would call an epidemic of young twenties and thirty-year-olds cutting off their parents.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Exactly. That's what I, that's something I do not want to do. It's something that one of my siblings has done already and it's, it's.

• 24:23Dr. John Delony?

  So some of it is just choosing to tolerate like parents. Let me put it this way, maybe your mom really, really in her guts believes she's right.

• 24:35Speaker 02

  Oh, hundred percent. I can totally guarantee you that.

• 24:38Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, I would, I would hope that if she saw her daughter and her grandkid in harm's way, if a truck was coming at them, that she would do everything she could to get y'all's attention. And so it may be, mom, I got it. I don't wanna talk about this anymore. And then having three or four other things for y'all to talk about.

• 24:59Dr. John Delony?

  And knowing there is sometimes when you're dealing with your aging parents, they're gonna give you advice and wisdom that A, you didn't ask for and B, may sound like nonsense to you. And sometimes the nonsense is correct. Like, live on less than you make. And we're all like, no, that's stupid, Mom. You're so old school. And she's right. And then maybe, you know, there's miniature robots in the vaccines that are taking over our, like, right? There could be that too.

• 25:27Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:27Dr. John Delony?

  And so, some of it can be nonsense. But I guess it depends on how much you want to internalize what she's saying.

• 25:36Speaker 02

  Hmm. Yeah, I mean, kind of the reason I wanted to call too is because I wasn't sure how much about this was just about the actual issue at hand, or how much of this was just behavior in general. Like, I don't know if it could have been, if it was any other issue that she disagreed on that my husband were to adopt. For example, like, you know, obviously, my mom's Christian, and my husband and I are Christians too. But if my husband wasn't a Christian and I married him, would she have the same behavior where she's like, sending videos to me, like, being like, this is how you should think. And she takes my husband out of the equation, which is the hard part. And she doesn't like confront him directly. She'll just like, you

• 26:17Speaker 02

  know, text me. And I don't know what she assumes I should do, like, convert him to her side. Like, I don't.

• 26:24Dr. John Delony?

  Well, A, she's probably not thinking about him at all.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  That's what.

• 26:30Dr. John Delony?

  Or B, um, she's trying to divide y'all up. Either way is insulting.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 26:39Dr. John Delony?

  Right. But also, can you just delete her texts when she sends in videos?

• 26:44Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Yeah, she'll report, she'll ask me to report on what I learned and stuff. And I'm like, I didn't watch it.

• 26:48Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but yeah. Or no. Or no, thank you. Like, you don't, you know, you'll have a, like, you're not my college professor.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 26:58Dr. John Delony?

  You know what I mean? Like, I'm not gonna report back to you because I don't watch them.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 27:03Dr. John Delony?

  How old are you?

• 27:05Speaker 02

  Probably 23.

• 27:06Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. A lot of this is age and wisdom related. Meaning, your skin gets thicker as you get older.

• 27:16Dr. John Delony?

  What I don't want to have happen is there be a line crossed where you snap and you make a reactive decision to something that could have been a more controlled burn. Does that make sense?

• 27:28Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 27:30Dr. John Delony?

  Like, she's gonna send a video, or send you an email, or text you, "Your husband is a bad person," or "He's trying to, you know, impregnate your kids with aliens via, you know, polio vaccine," or what, like, what, who knows what that guy's gonna say, right? What she's gonna send. But there'll come a line that you can't come back from, that may have been avoided with some pretty clear boundaries up front. "Hey, Mom, I'm tired of these conversations."

• 27:55Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's good to know, because I'm going on a trip with her. We're in college. At the end of the semester, she's taking me to, on a trip. And I had noticed that when she kind of gets me without, because my husband's not going, obviously. And so, I'm, that's why I was wanting to call too, because I was like, "I need to..."

• 28:17Dr. John Delony?

  Well, it's a firm boundary. Firm boundary. On, whoa, whoa, whoa, we're not talking negative about my husband.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:27Dr. John Delony?

  He's amazing.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 28:30Dr. John Delony?

  And you could put an end to that. And I would expect you to practice putting an end to that one. You're not gonna change your mind on conspiracy theories, or anti-this, or you're not gonna change your mind on that. But I draw a hard line, like, "Hey, I'm not participating in running down my husband, period. That conversation's over."

• 28:48Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 28:48Dr. John Delony?

  And that's a hard, you know, I'm getting, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's a hard one.

• 28:52Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:55Dr. John Delony?

  Because that gets real personal real fast. Does he not, does she not like him?

• 28:59Speaker 02

  I thought she did. But, yeah, pretty early on in our relationship, she would like, she said, "Read this book by this guy," you know, it was like, Andrew Wakefield wrote it, or something like that.

• 29:11Dr. John Delony?

  Sure, sure.

• 29:11Speaker 02

  And, yeah, I mean, he did it. Like, that's why I love him so much, because he, you know, he's like, "I believe what I believe, and I don't think that anything your mom's gonna send me is gonna change that, so I'll humor her." And, like, I don't know if that's leading her on, I don't know if she's like, "Oh, perfect, then he'll be on my side," or something, but I just really appreciate that he doesn't get defensive, and just like, "No, get that crap away from me." But... It's obviously he read it and was like, this is.

• 29:41Dr. John Delony?

  Sure. And like I regularly regularly engage with opposing opinions for what I believe. That's like, that's a way of life for me.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  Well, obviously, because I went into my relationship not quite aligned with him.

• 29:55Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  Like, we hashed it out. We've had these conversations for chillions of times.

• 29:59Dr. John Delony?

  Want to learn new things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 30:02Dr. John Delony?

  I want to stress test what I believe to be true. I like that.

• 30:05Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 30:06Dr. John Delony?

  And so, but.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 30:07Dr. John Delony?

  That's not common. And I thought it was. I just, I was naive and dumb. But all I have to say is, yeah, I mean, I'll have differing opinions with people. I'll have differing beliefs with, with people.

• 30:22Dr. John Delony?

  I've got close friends that I argue with vehemently on different issues.

• 30:28Dr. John Delony?

  But anyone who's going to run down my wife will not be in my life period. They're not going to be in my circle. They're not going to be around me, and I'm not going to be around them. And so, I hope you can see the difference there. There's some, there's some, there's some significant differences there. And, and that goes for anybody. And I'm really anti-cutting everybody off just because they disagree with you or because they're annoying or whatever. But I'm not going to be around people, anybody, who's going to run my wife down. She's too important to me and too awesome. And my family's made it very clear that if there was ever a rift between me and my wife, they're team her all the way. And I would be out on my own. Kelly has even told me that too. So, there's that. So, man, best of luck to you, Renee.

• 31:11Dr. John Delony?

  Boundaries are yours. And you can't, you can't control how other people are going to react to them. And that's what makes them so challenging. We come back. A man asks how to step boundaries with his mother-in-law and her boyfriend. Yikes.

• 31:29Dr. John Delony?

  This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Financial stress does not just damage our bank accounts. It can also take a toll on our mental health, our emotional health and our relationships. Money worries cause anxiety and they're one of the leading sources of conflict for couples. I know this personally. My wife and I struggled for years because of financial stress. Listen, therapy can help even with money. Therapy is not about financial advice, but it can help you build healthier ways of coping and give you strategies to communicate about money without more fighting. To do all of this, check out my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences.

• 32:13Dr. John Delony?

  BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and they are fully licensed in the United States. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time for no additional cost. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Visit betterhelp.com/doloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H E L P, dot com slash doloney.

• 32:40Dr. John Delony?

  All right, Phoenix, Arizona. Let's talk to Colin. Hey Colin, what's up dude?

• 32:45Speaker 03

  Doing well, how are you John?

• 32:46Dr. John Delony?

  I'm good brother. What's going on man?

• 32:48Speaker 03

  Um, yeah, I was just, uh, I'm calling because I've, it's more specifically relating to my kids than anything, but just had a, set boundaries with like my, and have the conversation with my mother-in-law regarding, um, when she comes into town to visit with, with her boyfriend.

• 33:08Dr. John Delony?

  What's the, what's, what do you want to communicate to her?

• 33:11Speaker 03

  Uh, I mean, just like when it comes to things like, so like it, she's had a couple, a long-term boyfriend as well before that they broke up. And now she's got another boyfriend that she's mentioning about coming to visit town.

• 33:25Dr. John Delony?

  Not around my kids. Nope, nope.

• 33:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I agree. And it, and it's other things like, it's not just, it's not, I mean, we live thousands of miles apart, so it's hard to say, you can't, like, do we say you can't visit at all? Do you say if they visit, you have to be in a separate hotel room? How, like, how, how do, what do we?

• 33:48Dr. John Delony?

  One, I think this is a conversation for your wife to have with her mom.

• 33:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:54Dr. John Delony?

  Um.

• 33:55Speaker 03

  Well, and we're, we're both in agreement on that.

• 33:57Dr. John Delony?

  I, yeah, but I mean, I, I, I would start there. You, you trying to, to step over your wife to talk to her mom causes all kinds of other issues, I think.

• 34:07Dr. John Delony?

  Um, but being aligned with her is important. Um, I think it's as clear as we're very careful who our kids are around and I know that you're dating somebody new. I'm not going to have strange men in my home with my kids. We'd love for you to come visit if you want to come visit and stay with us. That's awesome. Um, if y'all want to come stay in a hotel, that's great and you can come over. But I don't know this guy. I, you haven't known him very long and I am drawing a line on this one. And then that conversation ends.

• 34:37Speaker 03

  At what, at what point though? I mean, it can't just end there forever though, right? Like if they're like, at what, what point?

• 34:44Dr. John Delony?

  When it comes to, with, with the way I understand boyfriend data, um, stepparent data and childhood abuse. If that was to be, if that was in my situation, if my dad passed away and my mom started dating somebody new.

• 35:05Dr. John Delony?

  A, that would be crazy because she's 75 or 76, but let's say she did. Um.

• 35:13Dr. John Delony?

  Nobody's coming around my daughter, around my son until I've met with them. Probably had lunch with them several times by myself. Before I've looked him in the eye and asked him pretty hard questions like I, I do that. I just don't give a crap about that kind of stuff.

• 35:31Dr. John Delony?

  Like, like I have no qualms.

• 35:33Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 35:34Dr. John Delony?

  And any, any man worth his salt, worth his character would fully respect me as a dad of a young kid, asking hard probing questions to a strange man who I'm giving access to my house.

• 35:48Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 35:49Dr. John Delony?

  And any man who throws a temper tantrum, how dare you, uh, you don't, dude, bro, you just proved to me why I don't want you around my kids.

• 35:58Speaker 03

  And I guess my other follow up to that would be then what happens because we live literally thousands of miles apart.

• 36:08Dr. John Delony?

  I don't understand the question.

• 36:10Speaker 03

  So how do I, so like having like your, these conversations, which again, I think my wife and I are both which we are both in alignment on it, but we're, we, we see, we only see each other, like we only, we don't really see them on a regular basis enough to like have, have that type of conversation.

• 36:34Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. I mean, ideally it's in person, but you'll have to have this over, over the phone or via Zoom. And again, it's needed to be a, a daughter calls her mom conversation.

• 36:46Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 36:47Dr. John Delony?

  And, uh,

• 36:51Dr. John Delony?

  and you, one of two things will happen, one of three things will happen. One, they'll fully respect it and, and her mom will be like, dude, I totally understand. Awesome. I appreciate y'all taking care of my grandkids in that way.

• 37:03Dr. John Delony?

  That probably isn't going to happen or you wouldn't be calling me. Um, the second one is she'll say, screw you that I'm not coming.

• 37:10Dr. John Delony?

  And y'all will have to deal with that reality, which will be heartbreaking and that will blow up your picture of your kids having an awesome grandma.

• 37:19Dr. John Delony?

  Um, or they will bomb you. They'll show up anyway.

• 37:25Dr. John Delony?

  And I've personally had this happen. People will show up at your door. And be like, I dare you to hold your own boundary. What are you going to do? Send us away?

• 37:36Dr. John Delony?

  And the answer is yep.

• 37:40Dr. John Delony?

  And so, I mean, that's, that's, that's one of three things that's going to happen. My hope is with all my guts, my hope is that it's number one.

• 37:49Speaker 03

  Okay. And then can I ask like a further along question?

• 37:52Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 37:52Speaker 03

  Which is kind of more what we're trying to, like, would be another thing we'd follow up. What about when it comes to like, let's say, let's say one happens and we have the conversations, everything's going great, going good. But, uh, and it's probably just a similar conversation where you said, but more relating to, um, like just how they like interact with each other in our house, like, like basically, I mean, I, like we, my wife and I didn't live with each other until we were married, but like them just sharing a room and stuff like that.

• 38:25Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, y'all get to make-

• 38:25Speaker 03

  Not for our kids.

• 38:27Dr. John Delony?

  You get to choose what you want. Okay. And I think the challenge here is having the courage to treat your values with dignity and respect. The same dignity and respect you're hoping other people treat them, which is, I'm gonna clearly communicate these and I'm gonna accept any ramifications for these, but these are important. And so if Grandma and her boyfriend, the idea of them coming out of a shared bedroom in front of your children is something that makes you uncomfortable, then on behalf of your children, on behalf of your values, say that clearly.

• 39:12Dr. John Delony?

  Hey, y'all aren't married and that's a big deal to us that we model that for the kids. And so we've got y'all hotel room over here at this place, or we can set up the couch for Bill, the boyfriend. But even then, I don't, I don't want him staying the night at my house anyway.

• 39:29Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 39:32Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. And I know all of this is hard, especially when there is an un, what I would call an uncaring aging parent here, who is forcing this type of stuff on their, on her, her children and her grandchildren. That makes, that breaks my heart for you. Cause in a perfect world, let's just play this out, in a perfect world, mother-in-law would say, I'm bringing boyfriend in, we're gonna stay at a hotel. Um, I'm gonna come take you guys to dinner. I know y'all don't know him, I'd love y'all to meet him, but I'm gonna be with the grandkids on my own.

• 40:10Dr. John Delony?

  And they, she wouldn't put y'all in these kind of situations. That'd be ideal. But if ideal worked out, I wouldn't have a job. So there's that, right?

• 40:21Dr. John Delony?

  I, it, a lot of it is gonna be you and your wife grieving the fact that y'all had a picture that your kids would have this amazing grandparent experience that's probably not gonna happen.

• 40:33Speaker 03

  And I think the other tough thing is, is just us having like,

• 40:39Speaker 03

  if, and it's a weird situation to be in, but it's easy to have the conversation with your kids saying, you're not going to share a bedroom with your boyfriend. The harder conversation is tell your parent, you tell your parent the opposite thing too.

• 40:53Dr. John Delony?

  It is, except my pushback to that would be is A, I acknowledge you're right. It's easier to tell a kid that has to do what you say what to do.

• 41:03Dr. John Delony?

  But if your value can't be expressed to somebody who it's going to have a cost to it, then it's not really a value worth expressing.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  True.

• 41:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

• 41:17Dr. John Delony?

  And so I, it becomes a stress test of your value. Do y'all really care that much? Or is it just like a platitude?

• 41:26Dr. John Delony?

  And if it's just a platitude, like, laughingly own that. Oh, man, this is like a big hill to die on, but it's like, not really that big a deal.

• 41:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:36Dr. John Delony?

  You know what I mean?

• 41:37Speaker 03

  Mm hmm. No, it makes sense.

• 41:39Dr. John Delony?

  So I, or, no, no, we're dying on this hill. I don't want this in my kid's head. And I'll tell you, like, as I've gotten older, those hills have gotten far fewer. And, um, in fact, I've shifted many of, much of my thinking to, I want my kids to actually see stuff with their own eyes while they live in my house. So that we can talk about it while they're here.

• 42:05Dr. John Delony?

  I don't want them to encounter this their first time when they're on their own and all they have is some AI companion to ask, is this, like, what do you think about this? Or they have a lived experience in, with 21 year old wisdom, or 20 year old wisdom, or 25 year old wisdom, which doesn't have context to it.

• 42:25Dr. John Delony?

  And so like, there's a parade of characters in my house all the time. And I want them to see and meet people and be like, oh, my dad and my mom are hospitable. And my dad and mom have all kinds of wacky friends.

• 42:39Dr. John Delony?

  And dad says that this, I heard dad tell one of his buddies, like, I don't like X, Y, or Z. Dad, tell me about that. I want him to ask those questions while I'm there. I want my daughter to ask those questions while I'm there.

• 42:52Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, while she's there. That makes sense. So, I mean, it, but all to say is my beliefs about those kinds of things have shaped, changed and morphed over time. And so you might draw a line and die on this hill and then change it in five years. That's great. That's all good.

• 43:09Dr. John Delony?

  What matters is we felt it was important today.

• 43:13Dr. John Delony?

  And we knew the cost associated with that value.

• 43:18Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 43:20Dr. John Delony?

  But none of this is easy, man. None of it, dude. I'm sorry.

• 43:26Dr. John Delony?

  I hate it for you.

• 43:28Speaker 03

  No, it's, it's something we've talked about and discussed and it's just, I mean, it's sometimes nice living far away from family and this is, uh, in other times it makes things more difficult. This is one of the situations where it's much more difficult. Can't, can't just send them away or, or anything like that.

• 43:46Dr. John Delony?

  Right.

• 43:46Speaker 03

  They're in town, they're in town.

• 43:47Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And vice versa. Um, it's tough, uh, going to see family members and getting hotels instead of staying with them.

• 44:00Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 44:00Dr. John Delony?

  Right? That's hard, too.

• 44:02Speaker 03

  Yep. Yep.

• 44:05Dr. John Delony?

  And it can be expensive and it can be all, it can be all those things. And I'm not going to put my young daughters or my young sons in a home with a strange man that I don't know.

• 44:19Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 44:19Dr. John Delony?

  And that's a, that's a hard place to find yourself.

• 44:25Speaker 03

  Okay. All right. Well, I, I thank you for taking the time.

• 44:29Dr. John Delony?

  Of course, man. Hope I haven't made things worse for you, brother.

• 44:32Speaker 03

  No, definitely not. Just, like I said, my wife and I are pretty aligned on this. And, uh, we just kind of wanted, wanted to talk it through and, and get it just an outside opinion on it.

• 44:43Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. It's, I mean, it's, it's one thing to discuss walking through Mordor. It's another thing to be heading off into it. So, yeah, the journey ahead of you is hard and holding up boundaries is hard, especially when it's going to cost you things like relationships. Um, and my hope is that everybody is mature and understands. But that's just not always the case. We'll be right back.

• 45:07Dr. John Delony?

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• 45:49Dr. John Delony?

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• 46:23Dr. John Delony?

  All right, hey, I want to take a second to talk about my brand-new Micro Habits for Your Marriage app. It's called Together. It's in the Apple Store, the App Store. Is that what they call it, Kelly? The techno kids call it?

• 46:37Speaker 04

  The kids these days, yes, they call it the App Store. Or you can go to our show notes below and click a link.

• 46:42Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, that's right.

• 46:42Speaker 04

  And it'll take you to a landing page. It'll answer a bunch of questions.

• 46:45Dr. John Delony?

  Gotcha.

• 46:45Speaker 04

  And then it'll take you directly to the app store.

• 46:48Dr. John Delony?

  All right, so it's $6 a month. It's $5.99 a month for you if you do it in one-player mode. And I know that people are married, and their spouses would never... Download an app to help improve their marriage. I know that, I know that. And so we created it to where you can do it by yourself, or you can bring your spouse on and the price doesn't change. We don't charge you double, it's just the same. And these are micro habits for your life and your marriage that unlock new challenges over time and continue to give you small nudges back towards each other. Sometimes it is something like a 30 second hug, put your phone away. Sometimes it is write a note and stick it on the mirror.

• 47:31Dr. John Delony?

  Sometime, and these are small, tiny things like this is so dumb. Why are we doing this? We've just, I mean, you gotta trust me. You gotta trust me. And then sometimes it's big stuff like plan a conversation about this. And here's the talking points. And sometimes it is plan a breakfast getaway. We're gonna, we're gonna interact about these five things. Or here is some sex and intimacy challenges or whatever. Like, so it's got everything you can imagine. But the idea is slow, daily micro habits that bring you and your spouse away from the drift, back towards each other into the same boat, moving in the same direction. I love it. And thousands and thousands, thousands of people have downloaded it. They're using it.

• 48:16Dr. John Delony?

  It's awesome. And I want you to go check it out. Go to the App Store and download it. It's called Together by Dr. John Deloney. And Android people, we got you. We have an engineer working on it right this second, literally. Just take 30 or 40% off. We'll get it.