440: Barreling Ever Forward

Can you paint in space? What does “48 business hours” mean? Why is everyone asking me about aliens? How do you deal with the ever-present weight of nostalgia? What happens if you throw a ball while skydiving? Why do humans like stickers? …Hank and John Green have answers! If you're in need of dubious advice, email us at [email protected] Join us for monthly livestreams at patreon.com/dearhankandjohn See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Hank Green?

  You're listening to a Complexly podcast.

• 0:09Hank Green?

  Hello and welcome to Dear Hank and John.

• 0:12John Green?

  Or as I prefer to think of it, Dear John and Hank.

• 0:15Hank Green?

  It's a podcast where two brothers answer your questions, give you dubious advice, and bring you all the week's news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon. John, there's a very famous rock group. There's four members and none of them are singers. And you know them.

• 0:26John Green?

  Hmm.

• 0:27Hank Green?

  Can you tell me who it is?

• 0:29John Green?

  No, who is it?

• 0:31Hank Green?

  Mount Rushmore.

• 0:33John Green?

  Ah, a rock group. Well, we don't know for sure that Abraham Lincoln never, never sang a tune.

• 0:41Hank Green?

  You're right.

• 0:43Hank Green?

  He didn't get to go on Johnny Carson and be like, hey.

• 0:46John Green?

  Like, exactly.

• 0:49Hank Green?

  Oh, remember when the biggest-

• 0:50John Green?

  Four score and seven years.

• 0:52Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 0:52John Green?

  Remember when the biggest scandal in American life was Bill Clinton playing the saxophone?

• 0:57Hank Green?

  I mean, John, Bill Clinton had bigger scandals.

• 1:01John Green?

  Oh, yeah, that's right.

• 1:04Hank Green?

  Also, I don't think that was a scandal. I think everybody loved that.

• 1:07John Green?

  My memory is very unreliable, so I'm making a new podcast with my high school friend, Daniel Alarcon, who went on to become a famous novelist and win a MacArthur Genius Grant. And it's about football. It's about the World Cup and international football and the history of the game and just to get people excited for the World Cup, if it happens, which it might not. And it's been a great joy to make. It's called The Away End with John Green and Daniel Alarcon. You can look it up wherever you get your podcasts. I hope you'll listen to it. We really love making it together. And we also get to make it with our other friend from high school, our producer, Sean Taitone at iHeart.

• 1:43Hank Green?

  Ah, Sean.

• 1:45John Green?

  We're having a great time. Yeah, you remember. It was a grimoire wedding.

• 1:48Hank Green?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:49John Green?

  So we're having a great time making this podcast, but one of the things that's come up is that I have an unbelievably specific memory of things that are just wrong. Like, I have like memories of things that just didn't happen. Like, I remember being at the World Cup with Daniel in 1994, and Daniel was like, no, I went to one World Cup game, and it was at the Rose Bowl, and you weren't there. I was there with my uncle.

• 2:12Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 2:13John Green?

  But it turns out that my memory of having Daniel at a World Cup game, then I was like, no, we can call my dad. My dad was there too. And my dad called me and he was like, Daniel was not there.

• 2:22Hank Green?

  Yeah, yeah, I probably have told this story in the podcast before, but Catherine and I once had a very long conversation while watching a Bourne Identity movie about how I had never seen this movie. And she was like, no, I've seen it. And I think you were there. And then, and I was like, absolutely denied it. And then several months later, found an old blog post where I blogged about this movie. I like did a review of it.

• 2:45John Green?

  Wow.

• 2:46Hank Green?

  And I watched the whole thing and I was in the dark the whole time. I did not know what was gonna happen.

• 2:52John Green?

  To be fair, those movies do not live long in the memory, you know, like they're very enjoyable.

• 2:59Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 3:00John Green?

  Right. They're like, they're a certain kind of food, but they're not, they're not like a three star Michelin meal.

• 3:07Hank Green?

  No, no, they're not, they're not meant to be a truly special experience, but I did sit down at my live journal and write

• 3:13John Green?

  Wow.

• 3:14Hank Green?

  a review of it. So

• 3:16John Green?

  Wow.

• 3:16Hank Green?

  That happens.

• 3:18John Green?

  Let's not look up Hank's live journal, everybody. I bet it's dated.

• 3:21Hank Green?

  It's gone. It's gone. It's gone. And also, even if you wanted to try and find it, you couldn't because it wasn't actually live journal.

• 3:29John Green?

  Oh, nice work, man. Nice. Smart man.

• 3:34John Green?

  Smart man. I have no desire.

• 3:37Hank Green?

  The internet footprint is very scary. I finally downloaded all of my tweets.

• 3:41John Green?

  Congratulations.

• 3:41Hank Green?

  You did a long time ago and you deleted your, your archive, which I've considered doing because I have done some searches through and I'm like, boy, I had that opinion. Oh, gosh.

• 3:50John Green?

  You haven't deleted your old tweets?

• 3:52Hank Green?

  No. Oh, I shouldn't have told the world this, but no, no, they're all still up.

• 3:56John Green?

  Yikes. You should delete those, Hank. There is no reason for them to be there. The only, literally only one person is benefiting from those tweets being up and it's Elon Musk.

• 4:08Hank Green?

  And whoever and also potentially people who want to harm me. Yeah.

• 4:11John Green?

  Right. Elon Musk and your haters are having a field day right now.

• 4:15Hank Green?

  Uh huh. Yeah, no, no, they do. Sometimes they're like, they're like, uh, they'll drag out an old one and be like, but you thought the COVID vaccine was good. And I'm like, go present tense with that, boy. You don't need to say that in the past tense. I still, I still want to get those when it's, when it's appropriate.

• 4:32John Green?

  I just got my, my pertussis vaccine.

• 4:35Hank Green?

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:36John Green?

  Which I get every 15 years. Because I had pertussis.

• 4:39Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 4:40John Green?

  I, I did not enjoy having whooping cough. I'll tell you, all, almost all vaccine preventable diseases turn out to suck.

• 4:49John Green?

  You know what I mean?

• 4:50Hank Green?

  Uh huh.

• 4:51John Green?

  Like shingles.

• 4:52Hank Green?

  I had shingles. It was so bad.

• 4:54John Green?

  You had shingles so bad that when you got cancer, I thought you just still had shingles.

• 4:59Hank Green?

  No, no, literally. My doctors thought I just still had shingles. They're like, ah, you got some swollen lymph nodes, but you had shingles three times this year, which maybe was a bit of a red flag.

• 5:10John Green?

  Maybe.

• 5:11Hank Green?

  To have had shingles three times in a row.

• 5:14John Green?

  May, a yellow flag, I would say.

• 5:16Hank Green?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 5:17John Green?

  Yeah.

• 5:18Hank Green?

  It's pretty unusual. Twice in a row it happens.

• 5:20John Green?

  Here you are.

• 5:22Hank Green?

  Here I am.

• 5:22John Green?

  And, uh, we're grateful you're here.

• 5:24Hank Green?

  And when we say, and when we say I, we mean whichever version of me, uh, does not include the one that watched The Bourne Identity in 2002. Like that one isn't here. He's not part of I.

• 5:40John Green?

  No.

• 5:41Hank Green?

  So do I, am I really? The self is an illusion. John, what's your first question?

• 5:46John Green?

  This question's from Jackie who writes, Dear John and Hank, would liquid paint float off before actually drying in space? Not Chan, Jackie. Hank, could you paint the outside of a spacecraft or would that be a fool's errand?

• 5:59Hank Green?

  It would be, uh, so a paint is a coating and you could not paint the outside of a spacecraft, but you may be able to coat it. So, so, so paint, uh, is, is.

• 6:11Hank Green?

  Is that okay with you?

• 6:12John Green?

  No.

• 6:12Hank Green?

  You made a face.

• 6:13John Green?

  Yeah. That's a bunch of bull. I don't like it. I don't like you and your, uh, you and your terminology, but go on, I'm listening.

• 6:22Hank Green?

  You know what I mean? Like there's, so there's ways to coat things and paint it like a varnish, for example, would be another coating.

• 6:28John Green?

  But you couldn't varnish it either.

• 6:30Hank Green?

  No, you couldn't.

• 6:30John Green?

  At least because it's not wooden.

• 6:32Hank Green?

  But that's not the, that's, those are not the only two coatings. But so paint is very, and varnish as well are both made to exist on Earth with all of Earth's situations with regard to temperature and pressure being the two big ones. Gravity, not a big one. So, so when you paint a wall, gravity is not yanking that paint down to the ground. I mean, it is a little bit, but it, the viscosity of the paint does not allow it to just fall down. In the same way, the viscosity of the paint would allow it to stick to the surface. Like if you were painting inside of the space station, that would be fine. And in fact, astronauts have painted inside of the space station.

• 7:05John Green?

  You can paint inside the space station.

• 7:07Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 7:08John Green?

  But you probably can't do like really watery watercolors.

• 7:12Hank Green?

  Uh, no, I mean, I think that you could honestly, and watercolor actually would be a better option than many paints because a big thing that you want to watch out for is you are in an enclosed space. So you don't want to do like spray paints or like, like, like high VOC paints.

• 7:27John Green?

  Okay. But if you did a spray paint, Hank, wouldn't in the midst of spraying, the paint start to like float away?

• 7:34Hank Green?

  It would go in the direction, just like when you, when you spray paint on Earth, it doesn't go down. It doesn't like drop down. It has, it has velocity. So it drops down a little bit, but mostly it's going straight because it's, that overwhelms the.

• 7:47John Green?

  Right, right, right. I got it. I'm sorry. That makes sense.

• 7:50Hank Green?

  Um, but, but yeah, space is weird. But the big problem with painting on the outside of a spacecraft is pressure, uh, because that's going to instantly evaporate whatever thing. So usually paints, uh, well, all paints, they have a thing that they are dissolved in, and then that thing evaporates away and leaves the coating behind. But that system is designed to work at Earth standard temperature and pressure. Space is either very cold or very hot. There's very little in between. And also it is famously very low pressure. So you would, you have to create coatings that work differently. And as far as I know, we don't, I don't think that we actually have any coatings. That actually are applied in space. I might be wrong about that.

• 8:35Hank Green?

  But I think that most coatings are applied on Earth and then they're expected to last the life of the spacecraft and we're not going to do anything else, but correct me if I'm wrong. But I think that that doesn't mean that we couldn't design one. I think that it would be possible to design a coating that would work in in very cold or very hot and at zero pressure.

• 8:53John Green?

  Do you know the first artwork made in space?

• 8:57Hank Green?

  No.

• 8:59John Green?

  You should, because it was an episode of my podcast, The Anthropocene Reviewed, about

• 9:03Hank Green?

  I probably do.

• 9:04John Green?

  About, but you forgot about it.

• 9:06Hank Green?

  But

• 9:07John Green?

  But

• 9:07Hank Green?

  That was like the Jason Bourne movies.

• 9:09John Green?

  Yeah, just like, just like the Bourne Identity, The Anthropocene Reviewed was meant to be heard and then immediately forgotten forever.

• 9:17Hank Green?

  That was

• 9:17John Green?

  You know, John, I loved it.

• 9:18Hank Green?

  But it didn't leave a big impression.

• 9:20John Green?

  Exactly. That was my dearest hope for that project is that people would be like, well, that was nice. Anyway, moving on.

• 9:30John Green?

  No, it was, it was a colored pencil drawing

• 9:34Hank Green?

  I do remember this.

• 9:35John Green?

  Of Earthrise, of Earth rising that was made after the very first spacewalk.

• 9:43Hank Green?

  Mm hmm. And indeed, I can, I can picture it in my mind.

• 9:45John Green?

  Yeah, it's like, it's a beautiful, multicolored picture of the sun rising, but with Earth between it. I don't remember how it works, Hank. It's been a long time since I made that. It was a different guy who wrote that essay.

• 10:04Hank Green?

  Earthrise, color, pencil, art. Yeah, God, it's great. It's great.

• 10:10John Green?

  So good.

• 10:11Hank Green?

  It's really good.

• 10:12John Green?

  It's a real, that thing is, it's a major artwork. You know what I mean?

• 10:15Hank Green?

  Yeah. You know what that should be, John?

• 10:18John Green?

  Hmm.

• 10:19Hank Green?

  The flag of Earth.

• 10:20John Green?

  It's not a bad Earth flag. It's not about Earth flag. It's got a lot of good colors in it and it's vaguely flag shaped. So you could make it a flag, no problem.

• 10:31Hank Green?

  I like a circle and a flag, but this is like the circle in this is very small. And then also sort of like connects to a different thing. I think that that could be really cool. If you're like a vexilologist and make flags.

• 10:46John Green?

  Yeah.

• 10:47Hank Green?

  I'm not gonna complain if that shows up in the inbox.

• 10:51John Green?

  Yeah, I'll even, you know what? I'll make a flag out of it and fly it if somebody sends me a thing.

• 10:56Hank Green?

  You know, I know the guy who runs flags for good. I bet he can do it for us.

• 11:01John Green?

  That'd be pretty cool.

• 11:02Hank Green?

  I bet he could do it for good.

• 11:04John Green?

  I bet he could do it for good. Um, I just saw a comment on Tumblr.

• 11:10Hank Green?

  Oh, no. Oh, no. He looked at Tumblr. Was it bad or good or just funny?

• 11:14John Green?

  It was very, it was very bad and very funny. Can I tell you what it says?

• 11:18Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 11:19John Green?

  John Green, you nasty.

• 11:21Hank Green?

  Why? Does it say that?

• 11:24John Green?

  And ugly, and ugly as hell.

• 11:28Hank Green?

  No, they couldn't stop themselves. John Green, you nasty was enough.

• 11:32John Green?

  Sorry, I thought I was going over to the show notes. That's the second question, but the Google Docs and the Tumblr logos are pretty similar.

• 11:41Hank Green?

  Our eyesight isn't what it once was.

• 11:44John Green?

  Ooh, wow. All right, moving on. We got a question from Angie. Who writes, Dear John and Hank, I just left a voicemail for a prescription refill request and I can't stop thinking about the voicemail prompt. Instead of the typical, we'll respond within X number of business days. It said they would respond within 48 business hours. What does this mean? Does this mean six days because of eight hour business days? Some days they're open 12 hours. Does it mean four days? Do I need clock math to determine what I'm going to hear back? I need to ask them to change this absurd message, right? I appreciate your business hours, Angie.

• 12:19Hank Green?

  I think, I think that they mean two business days.

• 12:23John Green?

  No, I thought they meant four business days if they're open 12 hours a day.

• 12:28Hank Green?

  I think that they they mean two. I think that that's that's so weird.

• 12:33John Green?

  So they don't mean 48 business hours, they mean 48 hours.

• 12:36Hank Green?

  Yeah, no, I think that they mean like, like if I got this at noon.

• 12:42John Green?

  Yeah.

• 12:43Hank Green?

  It's not just gonna be there.

• 12:44John Green?

  Oh.

• 12:45Hank Green?

  Two days from now, it's gonna be there before noon, two days from now.

• 12:49John Green?

  Okay. That's 48 hours.

• 12:51Hank Green?

  But if the weekend is there, then that's over. Then it's not counting the weekend.

• 12:57John Green?

  It's 48 hours unless the business is closed for the weekend.

• 13:01Hank Green?

  Yeah, that would be my guess of what 48 business hours is supposed to mean. But I don't know, that's very ambiguous. It's like there is a lot of time during which we're not in business, but I don't know what your hours are.

• 13:14John Green?

  It's like how biannual means both twice a year.

• 13:18Hank Green?

  Very bad.

• 13:18John Green?

  And once every two years.

• 13:20Hank Green?

  Also bimonthly, yeah.

• 13:22John Green?

  Bimonthly means once every two months, but also once every two weeks.

• 13:25Hank Green?

  Yeah, and inflammable means flammable and inflammable.

• 13:29John Green?

  Wow, I didn't know that one, and that's an important one to know.

• 13:34Hank Green?

  It means both incapable of being burned and very easy to burn.

• 13:38John Green?

  Okay, so it really, it's like the horseshoe theory of American politics.

• 13:44Hank Green?

  It's right there at the edge.

• 13:46John Green?

  It's right there at the edge, one way or the other.

• 13:48Hank Green?

  One thing it's definitely not is like kind of like you could eventually get it to burn.

• 13:53John Green?

  You know, yeah, it's not like one of those big, thick logs when you're trying to start a fire.

• 13:58Hank Green?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:58John Green?

  It's either like newspaper or it's like Teflon.

• 14:02Hank Green?

  Yeah, no, not even newspaper. I mean, I guess.

• 14:05John Green?

  Newspaper is pretty easy to burn.

• 14:07Hank Green?

  More like gasoline. But yeah, yeah, it's definitely not a centrist, inflammable.

• 14:14John Green?

  Yeah. Well, who is these days?

• 14:21Hank Green?

  This question comes from Meghan, who asks, Dear Hank and John, but mostly Hank, I'm a scientist. It used to be that when I told people, my hairdresser, or taxi driver, or someone at a bar, that I was a scientist, they would complain about their high school science class. But now, in the last year, every single person has started asking me about aliens. And if I have insider information, I do not. What is, what is happening? Are aliens' conspiracy theories trending on the internet? Have I aged into looking like someone with secret insider information? How do I turn questions about Three Eye Atlas? Oh, my God, my hairdresser asked me about Three Eye Atlas, too, recently, into how they should be excited about potential, potential microbial life on other planets, asteroids, and aliens? Meghan, I mean- What is Three Eye Atlas, just out of curiosity? I mean, I don't want to fall

• 15:06Hank Green?

  down the rabbit hole, I suspect. Is the third interstellar object we've ever detected. So, so in the last few years, we have, our tools have gotten good enough that we can spot objects, a lot of objects in the sky. Mostly, we've, we've built these as, you know, in part, you know, just to better understand the solar system, but in part to be like, okay, we should catalog all of the objects to make sure none of them are about to hit us. But that means that we are just catching a huge number of objects, including now, some that are on trajectories that are clearly from outside of the solar system, they will pass through the solar system, and then they will leave. So, some other planetary system kicked this object out. And this is very exciting, because it means that we could potentially study physical

• 15:49Hank Green?

  objects from other solar systems without having to go to other solar systems. Which we can't do. Which we are not going to be able to do. Certainly not in our lifetimes. And, I mean, that's, what a wild understatement. John, if we're not at Office and Tower by 2035, I'm gonna, we should change the name of the podcast to Dear John and Hank. What a wild understa-, in our lifetimes, in our, in our lifetimes, we'll be lucky to get to the nearest planet. Yeah, no, yeah. I don't know. There's people who who want to do it, but but unlikely to. But even if we did, we wouldn't be able to get something back. And so this would be like, it would be coming from somewhere else. And these objects are exciting. Excitingly, they're weird.

• 16:31Hank Green?

  And because they're weird, a lot of people who are good at getting attention and enjoy the the part where you get attention are like, look, these aren't like any other rocks we've ever seen. Maybe they're parts of spaceships. And I'm like, maybe they're not like any other rocks we've ever seen because they're from other parts of the galaxy may have formed 10 billion years ago. Like, we don't know anything about this. The fact that they're weird is very exciting, but it would be very weird if one of the first three objects we saw from another planetary system just happened to be a piece of a spaceship. That doesn't make any sense. I made a whole video about this.

• 17:09John Green?

  Yeah, all right. I get I get three I Atlas now, and I get why people would be excited about it because in the information economy in which we're currently living, all that matters is your ability to get attention. And the most interesting, surprising, outrageous, exciting, easy to grasp idea is always going to get the most attention. And so it makes sense in a kind of way, Megan, that you would start it. You'd be starting to hear about aliens here in the last year as what Hank calls the salience economy really kicks into gear. Like, really overtakes our overall discourse. Like, it becomes the primary way that we're talking to each other.

• 17:53John Green?

  And by salience, Hank means the ease at which something can be understood, right?

• 17:58Hank Green?

  No, that's part of it.

• 18:00John Green?

  But that's part of it.

• 18:01Hank Green?

  Yeah, I mean, salience is is the ease, the ease with which something captures your attention.

• 18:09John Green?

  Right.

• 18:10Hank Green?

  So very understood is is good, but it it might be that something is easy to understand, but it is also infuriating, you know, like it doesn't have to be something that you agree with, though.

• 18:21John Green?

  Yeah.

• 18:21Hank Green?

  Something, something that like if you agree with it, it's also easier to to to pay attention to sometimes. But like, one thing's for sure. If aliens built the pyramids, that's pretty cool. That's an easy thought to pay attention to. And I really think that that's it. I think that that ultimately, at the root of it, it is because the salience economy has taken over. And and we talk about this in terms of attention. So we say the attention economy. We've been saying this for a long time. But I just think that it's important to recognize that, like, all of our biases, all of our tendencies on the internet, all of the structures of the internet, they very much like salience is a thing that exists kind of inside of the object that your attention is being focused on. Like,

• 19:03Hank Green?

  how beauty, we always, we say like, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but it's not really like, in part, it is. But it's like, also, there's a bunch of cultural things there. There's a bunch of actual physical properties there that are that are universal. And in the same way, there are some really salient stories, and aliens are one of them. And because everybody, like, it's a world of infinite content and finite attention, the the war for your attention is being fought by creating ever more salient attention objects, objects on which your attention can be focused. And and like, I was recently at at dinner with an executive at an educational media company. They were once an educational media company, and now or less so.

• 19:47John Green?

  Now they're mostly an alien.

• 19:49Hank Green?

  And she said, she said to me.

• 19:50John Green?

  Rumor spreading company.

• 19:51Hank Green?

  And she, yeah, she's an executive, like, high up. And she said, like, what do you like, that? That's one of the first questions she said to me. She was like, oh, you're a science guy. What do you think about aliens? We produced this documentary. Documentary? We produced this documentary. And I was totally convinced. And I was like, you've asked the wrong person. Because I'm not gonna have fun in this space with you.

• 20:14John Green?

  Yeah.

• 20:14Hank Green?

  Like, like, what, what's, what you're gonna say is like, but there's all these credible people. And what I'm gonna say is like, people are flawed. And then you're, you're gonna say, well, there's all these unexplained phenomena. And I'll be like, there are a lot of those unexplained phenomena in the world. They're like, unexplained is normal. 250 years ago, we didn't know why we needed to breathe. Nobody thought it was aliens. But like, now we do, like, any unexplained thing can be explained by aliens. And so that's why we go with it a lot, because it's both, it's very good at explaining weird stuff that we don't currently have good explanations for, which often is just a lack of data. It's not something that we're doing research on. It's like something somebody saw somewhere, or like a really blurry video.

• 20:54John Green?

  Yeah, it's, it's two things. I mean, first off, if there were aliens here and we were capturing them over really blurry videos, that would be a heck of a coincidence, right?

• 21:05Hank Green?

  It's really weird that it's always the blurriest video that is the one that's proof.

• 21:09John Green?

  It has a lot of explanatory power, and it's incredibly easy to pay attention to and want to know more about.

• 21:15Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 21:15John Green?

  And anytime something has that combination, whether it's aliens or another conspiracy theory, or, uh...

• 21:25Hank Green?

  Even a true thing about, about like, how, how like, people are mistreated in society.

• 21:30John Green?

  Yeah, no, like, I, I'll, I'll talk about one of my own very salient things, right? Which is my religious faith. Now, if you find that your religious faith never inconveniences or challenges you, never makes you do something you don't want to do, then it's an idea with a lot of explanatory power and tremendous, uh, attention grabbing power that, uh, also makes it easier for you to live your life and does nothing else for you. It does nothing in the way of challenge you. It does nothing in the way of inconvenience you. It does nothing in the way of like, putting blocks in your path and saying like, maybe you're not on the right path. And, and to me, those ideas are the most dangerous.

• 22:14John Green?

  Whether it's aliens or not, and I've got to be very conscious of that because a lot of times I'll find myself like, you know, using my religious faith as a way to convenience myself or as a way to reaffirm what I already think is true rather than being challenged by it because it is a set of beliefs that exists a little bit outside of information. So I, I, I don't think that Hank or me or anyone else is immune to the salience economy.

• 22:42Hank Green?

  No, no, I, I am both a purveyor, like that's my, kind of my job is to like, use it hopefully for good. And the other thing I'll say about science specifically is that this is now because of this, it is pitched, it is discussed often through the lens of, of scientists. So like, there are, you know, influencers, like sciency influencers who are like sometimes professors at like big universities who are getting attention by, you know, I think that they actually legitimately believe this. I think that they've been, you know, sucked into it for the exact same reasons. And, and they're getting a ton of attention

• 23:24Hank Green?

  and they're selling lots of books and they're going on all the big podcasts. And so that's now a lot of people's most direct touchstones with something that is being called science, even though it is like really explicitly not like, it is, it is losing touch with a lot of the, of the, you know, really important work that science does to try and remove all of these biases that are very normal parts of being a human from, from the activity that is actually trying to get toward the truth with, with less of that bias in there.

• 23:56John Green?

  Yeah, yeah. I agree. That reminds me that today's podcast is brought to you by the biases inherent in the human experience that science tries to correct for, but never fully can. Thank you for sponsoring the podcast.

• 24:12Hank Green?

  Yeah, not that you needed more attention, not that you needed more control over humanity.

• 24:18John Green?

  Seems like you're doing fine, but.

• 24:20Hank Green?

  The podcast is also brought to you by Business Hours.

• 24:22John Green?

  Business Hours!

• 24:24Hank Green?

  Who knows?

• 24:27John Green?

  And today's podcast is brought to you by Paintin' in Space.

• 24:29Hank Green?

  Paintin' in Space, it's possible as long as you're inside the spacecraft.

• 24:34John Green?

  And this podcast is brought to you by John Green.

• 24:36Hank Green?

  John Green, he nasty and ugly.

• 24:44Hank Green?

  Sorry, John.

• 24:45John Green?

  I love how last week I was like waxing poetic about how great Tumblr is now.

• 24:49Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 24:49John Green?

  And then I just have to click over.

• 24:54Hank Green?

  John Green, nasty.

• 24:55John Green?

  Oh, nothing's, not, not, not, nothing's perfect, Hank. Nothing's perfect. All right, Hank, let me ask you this question from Lauren.

• 25:03Hank Green?

  Okay.

• 25:04John Green?

  How do you deal with the ever-present weight of nostalgia and the knowledge that time just keeps passing? Pumpkins and Penguins, Lauren. I am fascinated, Hank, by humanity's ability to nostalgicize anything, you know?

• 25:17Hank Green?

  Oh, yeah.

• 25:17John Green?

  Like, we, like, the way we nostalgicize COVID and they're like, COVID was great, man. I went on long walks. I had all this time. I was, and, and millions of people died.

• 25:27Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 25:28John Green?

  It's so weird that we're able to do this.

• 25:30Hank Green?

  It's also weird because, because I think that we like the opposite nostalgify current moment, where like current moment always seems much worse than it actually is. Past moment always seems much better than it actually was.

• 25:43John Green?

  Right. Yeah. It's like, there was no time in American history where the rule of law was like just and fair, right? Like, that's, that's kind of the nature of America is trying to move towards something that it really genuinely struggles to move toward.

• 25:59Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 25:59John Green?

  And that's just one example among many. I mean, I'm sure the same is true for, like, all the time in, in, when I'm in the UK, because I'm a, because I look kind of like a conservative dude and because I'm American, people will like share opinions with me and I'll just be aghast, that they would never, for instance, like, share with, with most people. You know, like, that, that, like, it's a shame about the Age of Empire ending. And I'll be like, yeah, it's, it's really not.

• 26:34Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 26:35John Green?

  It's really not. Like, life expectancy at the end of the Age of Empire in Sierra Leone was like 30. Y'all did a horrible job.

• 26:44Hank Green?

  Yeah. This was a bad thing.

• 26:47John Green?

  Yeah. It did not, it was a, it was catastrophic.

• 26:50Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 26:50John Green?

  You know? And, and, and what replaced it, while flawed, is better.

• 26:59John Green?

  I don't know, but then there's like the personal nostalgia, right?

• 27:03Hank Green?

  I think that's mostly what we're talking about here. Yeah.

• 27:04John Green?

  I miss when my kids were little because they would, they would squeeze on me. They would like, they would hug me like monkey children hug monkey parents.

• 27:13Hank Green?

  Yeah, the kid, the kid nostalgia is, is way more potent than like my college nostalgia or

• 27:19John Green?

  Totally.

• 27:20Hank Green?

  like any other nostalgia I have, like seeing little pictures of little Lauren. I'm like, ah, I never get him again.

• 27:28John Green?

  Yeah. Yeah. But I'm also romanticizing that because at the time it was hard.

• 27:32Hank Green?

  Yeah, I do like to, when I do the, the family books, like I, early on, like the photo books that I printed out at Christmas time, uh, I, I would like to include at least like one picture of him super sick with like a puke bowl and one picture of him crying like,

• 27:49John Green?

  Screaming.

• 27:50Hank Green?

  you know, a, about some dumb thing, you know, just to be like, these also were things that happened.

• 27:55John Green?

  Yeah. Because like while they were like clinging on to me and hugging me and like never letting me go, they were also like, you know, having an absolute fit about the fact that they couldn't watch a second episode of Little Einsteins.

• 28:09Hank Green?

  Well, I would never watched that before.

• 28:11John Green?

  Oh my God. I watched a lot of it. I know the, I know the theme song. Do, do, do, do, do, Little Einsteins.

• 28:19Hank Green?

  That's.

• 28:19John Green?

  Oh, a lot of Little Einsteins in our house growing up. Disney Plus, I think it was on, maybe Disney Junior.

• 28:25Hank Green?

  I'm going to be on Disney Plus.

• 28:27John Green?

  Are you?

• 28:28Hank Green?

  I am.

• 28:29John Green?

  Soon? Is that announced?

• 28:30Hank Green?

  September. It's not announced, but we're putting it in the podcast anyway, because I'm not saying what it is.

• 28:35John Green?

  That's true. That's true. Uh, I got a new thing coming out, uh, not the podcast, which I'm very excited about, but another new thing. I, since we're talking about things that we're doing that we can't talk about.

• 28:44Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 28:45John Green?

  Yeah. I've been working on a thing since 2018 that's coming out. Hopefully.

• 28:49Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 28:50John Green?

  Hopefully soon.

• 28:52Hank Green?

  Good job, John. I remember like talking to you in 20, like 21 and you were like, I'm done with that. I finished.

• 28:58John Green?

  Oh.

• 29:01John Green?

  I was not done.

• 29:04Hank Green?

  I'm just not done.

• 29:05John Green?

  No, I had a long way to go back then.

• 29:08Hank Green?

  You did.

• 29:08John Green?

  Uh, it is funny how that works, though. That's another form of nostalgia that I'm fascinated by is that I look back on my books and I'm like, well, that was fun and easy.

• 29:17Hank Green?

  And easy. That's true. I think it was easy.

• 29:20John Green?

  Yeah.

• 29:20Hank Green?

  I tell myself it was easy.

• 29:22John Green?

  Yeah.

• 29:23Hank Green?

  I don't know, man. I, I think that I mostly get over the weight of that by just, by just barreling ever forward, which may not be super healthy.

• 29:31John Green?

  No, but you are a barreling ever forward type of fella. You just are. And I,

• 29:39John Green?

  I like to look back. I enjoy recalling days gone by, and I don't mind a little bit of nostalgia, Lauren. I think a little bit of nostalgia can be, can be productive. I think where it gets destructive is when you start to think that those times were inherently better than these times, although.

• 29:58Hank Green?

  Some of those times were better. Yeah, we, we are definitely, the, the, the, the, nothing, it's not like, nothing is straight lines, you know, that definitely it turns out.

• 30:07John Green?

  Yeah.

• 30:08Hank Green?

  Things, things get better and then.

• 30:09John Green?

  I just mean, I don't, I don't mean like, uh, macro economically. I just mean personally, like some, you know, some things were better than, like my knees, my knees were better. Like when I'm running now and I'm romanticizing and nostalgicizing how I used to run. I'm right.

• 30:26Hank Green?

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:28John Green?

  That was faster, it hurt less. All of that is true.

• 30:31Hank Green?

  Yeah. And the, the, the true, like, you cannot escape biology. The true, the true course does, does get worse. It gets physically worse. Like there are some things that, you know, hopefully there's some level of, of security in the self or, or security and like having, having some, having figured some, some stuff out.

• 30:51John Green?

  A measure of wisdom, perhaps.

• 30:53Hank Green?

  Yeah, perhaps a measure of wisdom. But, but yeah, no, the, uh, the aches and pains and then the eventual deterioration, uh, unto death. That is not like dope.

• 31:04John Green?

  No, it's so overrated, if anything. And I know it's rated lowly, but it's still somehow overrated.

• 31:11Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 31:11John Green?

  Yeah. Oof.

• 31:13Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 31:13John Green?

  Thank God those tech guys in Silicon Valley have solved for death because I was worried about it for a long time.

• 31:21Hank Green?

  Good thing we had kids so that we could steal their blood.

• 31:27John Green?

  Yeah, I mean, how do you think, how do you think this face looks this good at 48?

• 31:32Hank Green?

  Okay.

• 31:33John Green?

  Sun blood, of course.

• 31:35Hank Green?

  Sun blood. I want to do this question. It's from JD who asks, dear Hank and John, I have a physics question. Let's say you went skydiving and you brought a tennis ball with you. When you reach terminal velocity, if you throw the ball towards the ground as hard as you can, would it keep falling at a distance away from you based on how far you threw it? Or would it like hit you in the face once it reaches 55 meters per second, which is the terminal velocity of a human body? If my friend jumped from a plane before me, could they catch the ball? What about throwing it back to me? Can you add energy to something traveling that fast? My high school was too small to have physics, so you're my only hope. Terminal philosophy, JD.

• 32:13John Green?

  Oh JD, you've come to the right place because boy, do I know the answer to this question.

• 32:17Hank Green?

  Do you? From all your skydiving experience?

• 32:20John Green?

  Or high school physics where I got a famous, famous C minus and by the skin of my teeth, I mean, the minuses of minuses.

• 32:30Hank Green?

  The, good job, good job. It's always, it's always a lot of work there at those last, those last percentage points of a GPA.

• 32:36John Green?

  So I suspect, assuming that a human and a tennis ball have the same terminal velocity.

• 32:43Hank Green?

  They do not importantly.

• 32:44John Green?

  I know, I understand that, but like a better question might be if, if, if you pushed a human.

• 32:50Hank Green?

  Right.

• 32:51John Green?

  If you're falling with a human and you pushed the human as hard as you could.

• 32:54Hank Green?

  Well, interestingly.

• 32:56John Green?

  How much distance would be created between you?

• 32:58Hank Green?

  Yeah, an even closer approximation of this would be if you, is if you created a tennis ball that fell at terminal velocity. So an assumption in your question JD is that, is that terminal velocity is equal among all things and it very much is not. So tennis ball is much lighter than a human and, and the surface area to, to mass means that it will have a much lower terminal velocity.

• 33:20John Green?

  So if you, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, the lightness doesn't matter, right? Because it's all, it's all.

• 33:25Hank Green?

  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's the surface area to mass.

• 33:27John Green?

  Surface area to mass, right, okay. I'd, I'd see, I do remember a little bit from physics.

• 33:31Hank Green?

  Good job. So if you, if you're traveling with a tennis ball, you throw it for a second, it's going to be going faster than your 55 meters per second. But then very soon it's going to be going less. So it will in fact go away from you and then fly back up into your face. But they know about this in the skydiving world and they want to toss things to each other because they're weirdos and so they've invented a ball. There's a ball that they have that they can throw to each other and it has the same terminal velocity as a human.

• 33:59John Green?

  What?

• 34:00Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 34:00John Green?

  They invented a ball that has the same terminal velocity as a human?

• 34:03Hank Green?

  They did. It's called the Vladiball. I don't know why.

• 34:06John Green?

  You're telling me that we could have done anything? We could have.

• 34:11Hank Green?

  We, we've done many things.

• 34:13John Green?

  We could have cured tuberculosis a thousand times over and instead we invented a Vladiball?

• 34:18Hank Green?

  I mean, I'll tell you, the Vladiball doesn't seem very complicated. And in fact, before they invented the Vladiball, what they would do is just tape pennies to a tennis ball, which was bad because sometimes the pennies would fell off and then they'd be falling down to the ground. And that's not safe.

• 34:33John Green?

  No, it's not ideal.

• 34:35Hank Green?

  So, so if somebody was like, we gotta get a better ball, so let's just make a heavy tennis ball. But then they invented the Vladiball, which has a number of advantages.

• 34:42John Green?

  Again, the heaviness of the tennis ball is not the, not the issue, right?

• 34:46Hank Green?

  Yes, but it increases the mass per unit of surface area.

• 34:49John Green?

  Oh, I see what you're saying. Got it, got it, got it. Okay.

• 34:52Hank Green?

  So, I wanted to talk about that because Deboki discovered the Vladiball and I just could, could not.

• 34:57John Green?

  That's great stuff.

• 34:59Hank Green?

  So. So they can toss balls.

• 35:01John Green?

  And everybody's going terminal velocity, but it's not an issue because.

• 35:05Hank Green?

  Yeah, yeah. And so what would happen is if you throw the Vladiball downward, it will travel for a while and then it will reach terminal velocity and it will be going the same speed as you, far away from you. And so you will have to decrease your terminal velocity by tucking your arms in and going to get it.

• 35:19John Green?

  But you can also increase and decrease your terminal velocity by like going into a dive or spreading your arms or whatever.

• 35:25Hank Green?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 35:26John Green?

  So you could probably catch up with that tennis ball if you needed to.

• 35:29Hank Green?

  It is designed so that you can catch up to it.

• 35:32John Green?

  Okay.

• 35:33Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 35:34John Green?

  I mean, all of this makes me wonder like how broken, and I say this with love and respect.

• 35:42John Green?

  I don't want it to sound like a diss, but like, how broken are the amygdalas of these folks?

• 35:46Hank Green?

  I don't know, man.

• 35:47John Green?

  That they're like, ah, I mean, jumping out of the plane was fun, but I wish I could play air hockey.

• 35:52Hank Green?

  John, I, you say that as if I didn't tweet at JD Vance this week.

• 35:57John Green?

  Oh.

• 36:00John Green?

  That's true. That's worse than skydiving.

• 36:01Hank Green?

  I know.

• 36:03John Green?

  It's certainly more dangerous.

• 36:04Hank Green?

  I probably felt very similar.

• 36:06John Green?

  Yep. Yep. Gave you the jolt.

• 36:09Hank Green?

  Certainly had a jolt.

• 36:10John Green?

  People will do crazy stuff for the jolt. People will do any, whatever gives you the jolt, like you're gonna do.

• 36:17Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 36:19John Green?

  Yep. Oh, I can't believe you tweeted at JD Vance. How did it go? Did he respond?

• 36:25Hank Green?

  No, no, he, I think that they've moved past responding. Um, I really wanted to ratio him and only got like a third of the way there.

• 36:35John Green?

  I mean, I would say my condolences, but actually my condolences that you got on Twitter.

• 36:40Hank Green?

  Yeah, my, yeah, my condolences that you had that thought and also that you felt comfortable sharing it.

• 36:46John Green?

  I heard that you were on Twitter again, and so I got on Twitter as my old, my old alter ego, Leon Musk.

• 36:52Hank Green?

  Thank you. Yeah, I saw you on there.

• 36:54John Green?

  And, uh, usually I only use Leon Musk to get up to date on any AFC Wimbledon crisis. But I went on, I went on, on Twitter because you were on Twitter and you were just, you were cooking, baby. You were on, you were inflammable.

• 37:13Hank Green?

  In both senses. Yeah.

• 37:14John Green?

  In both senses.

• 37:15Hank Green?

  Yeah, yeah. I felt, I felt very, I felt very invincible and I also, it felt, it felt like I hadn't been on Twitter in so long. It felt a little like what it might feel like to relapse. Uh, and I, I was, I was like, I was like, ah, well, I'm doing it. So I might as well keep doing it. And yeah.

• 37:37John Green?

  Yeah.

• 37:37Hank Green?

  And I didn't experience any like significant negative outcomes. I was a little like, I bet I could do this in a smart way.

• 37:47Hank Green?

  I could, I could do it, but I could do it in a safe way. I would, I can, I won't go over and immediately I went over.

• 37:52John Green?

  You did go over. I was like, I mean, you deleted a bunch of them, which was a good call, but I was like watching it in real time. And I was like, oh my God, he's doing it as fast as he can type.

• 38:08John Green?

  Yeah.

• 38:08Hank Green?

  Oh.

• 38:09John Green?

  For about, for about like six hours, you were tweeting, you were tweeting like Trump truth socials, like just like.

• 38:15Hank Green?

  I feel like there's a.

• 38:16John Green?

  Nonstop.

• 38:17Hank Green?

  I, it just, it felt like there were, it felt like there were a lot of people who, who like hadn't seen, uh, quality opposition in a while. And I was like, oh, you, you think, you think that like the people who like nag you on Twitter are your opposition, but I'm your opposition and I know how to do this really well.

• 38:37John Green?

  Yeah.

• 38:37Hank Green?

  It felt like.

• 38:38John Green?

  I, it's what it felt like. I don't think that you know how to do it as well as you think you know how to do it. I think.

• 38:43Hank Green?

  Oh, yeah. No, I think that's a pretty, a pretty common thing.

• 38:46John Green?

  Yeah.

• 38:46Hank Green?

  Uh, out there on the Twitters.

• 38:48John Green?

  Yeah. Well, the, everyone's looking forward to the why does Hank still want to be famous episode. We're going to hold that one in the can for a while because, you know, when we need a ratings boost, we'll do it at the end of the year or something.

• 39:05Hank Green?

  Oh, man.

• 39:06John Green?

  All right, Hank, before we get to the all important news from Mars and AFC Wimbledon, I want to ask you a real quick question.

• 39:11Hank Green?

  Okay.

• 39:11John Green?

  Why do humans like stickers? This one's from Becca who writes, Dear John and Hank, why do humans love stickers? As a kid, it was always the biggest deal to get a sticker. I would spend days agonizing over where to put it and even kept a sticker notebook. And as an adult, nothing has changed, though instead of a notebook, I now have a laptop.

• 39:27Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 39:28John Green?

  So what's going on with Becca and all of us, Hank? Why do we like stickers? Why do we like adhesive labels?

• 39:34Hank Green?

  I don't know.

• 39:36John Green?

  Oh, I thought you were gonna have a scientific answer.

• 39:38Hank Green?

  I don't, I definitely don't have a scientific answer, but I do, I do like stickers. I, I love to customize a thing, you know? I like to put like, like label the thing is, uh, like, everybody has the same computer, basically, now. You know, they're all gray, flat.

• 39:54John Green?

  Yep.

• 39:55Hank Green?

  Clamshells.

• 39:56John Green?

  Yep.

• 39:56Hank Green?

  But I don't want the same computer. I want my computer. I want to know what it looks like. I wanted to look different than everybody else's and I wanted to show all the things that I care about. I want it to be like Mars and fish and my, and my own YouTube shows.

• 40:13John Green?

  I remember once I had a sticker on my laptop back in the day that said this machine kills fascists.

• 40:18Hank Green?

  Oh, boy.

• 40:19John Green?

  When I had the narrow, narrow and completely incorrect view that open and free access to information through the internet would end fascism.

• 40:27Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 40:28John Green?

  And I was going through Homeland Security at the airport and one of the guys was like, there aren't any fascists anymore.

• 40:37Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 40:38John Green?

  And I was like, oh, well, we'll see.

• 40:44Hank Green?

  It's interesting. It's interesting because it turns out that fascism turns out to be more of a, more of a process than a thing.

• 40:52John Green?

  More of a, almost everything, Hank, is more of a process than an event. You think it's event based, it's actually process based. You think historical events are, are events, they're actually historical forces pressing in on people and places and times. Everything that appears to be a dichotomy is in fact a spectrum and everything that appears to be an event is in fact a process.

• 41:16Hank Green?

  Great. We did it.

• 41:17John Green?

  Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. All right, it's time for the all important news from bars in AFC Wimbledon, Hank. AFC Wimbledon winless in their last, I don't know, 5,000 games.

• 41:26Hank Green?

  Yeah, but you tied one.

• 41:28John Green?

  We tied. We tied against the second worst team in the league.

• 41:32Hank Green?

  I know, and you almost lost.

• 41:34John Green?

  Well, they had lost nine straight games and we had gone winless in our last 11. So it was truly a stoppable force meeting a movable object.

• 41:46John Green?

  Who would emerge victorious in this war between two terrible League One football clubs? And the answer was no one. Marcus Brown, if I can, Marcus Brown scored a goal in like the 78th minute to tie the game and we emerged with a point from Doncaster Rovers, but that's not nearly good enough to where we need to be. The truth is, we need to win at least five more games, maybe six more games.

• 42:11Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 42:11John Green?

  In this season, and that doesn't sound like a tough task until you look at how things have been going and then you start to say, well, maybe it is hard. So we have 20 games left. We need to win five or six of them. And goodness gracious, I hope you find those five or six wins.

• 42:28Hank Green?

  Yeah, uh, it seemed it seemed quite achievable not long ago, but now it seems less. It's now seem quite a bit more scary. You won a lot of games in the beginning of the season.

• 42:38John Green?

  We were so good in the beginning of the season.

• 42:40Hank Green?

  Like a like a weird suggestion for like a football thing. So whatever you were doing then.

• 42:45John Green?

  I know we should do it again. Yeah. The thing is, we have the exact same players playing in the exact same formation. We have a couple injuries, but not only a couple. And, uh, and yet somehow the same people doing the same thing in the same way has become vastly less effective.

• 43:03Hank Green?

  Oh.

• 43:05John Green?

  This is also known as the Democratic Party phenomenon.

• 43:12Hank Green?

  What spicy.

• 43:15Hank Green?

  I like it. I like it. We should get spicy in the Mars news and ABC will know the news, but everybody's gone.

• 43:21John Green?

  Nobody's listening.

• 43:21Hank Green?

  And I don't like Bill Clinton.

• 43:28Hank Green?

  I think he should retire. I think I don't want to hear from him anymore.

• 43:31John Green?

  All right. What's the news from Mars?

• 43:33Hank Green?

  It's from Mars. Mars is has an impact on Earth, a pretty important impact on Earth, which we are only now discovering. So, so our climate goes through cycles. These cycles are affected by Earth's orbit and the tilt of the Earth's axis. So there's this grand cycle that has shaped how the Earth's orbit shortens and lengthens over the course of 2.4 million years. This is a regular cycle that goes, it's very long and it affects how much sunlight we get. And those cycles affect the timing of ice ages, how intense seasonal changes are. They're shaped by the gravitational pull of the sun. Yes, primarily, but also other planets. So scientists wanted to see how important Mars was to these cycles and they ran simulations

• 44:17Hank Green?

  to see if there was like zero Mars or if Mars had like a like a hundred, like less mass or if all the way up to like 100 times more mass than Mars has. And, um, and they found that when there was no Mars, the grand cycle goes away. Now that doesn't mean that like life wouldn't be possible on Earth or anything, but like the Mars is a is like one, like it would not happen without Mars. And they also found that Mars helps to stabilize our tilt as well as a smaller Mars would actually make the tilt more wobbly. So the reason.

• 44:49John Green?

  Whoa, whoa, whoa. If we had a wobbly or a wobblier Earth, would it still be habitable?

• 44:55Hank Green?

  Oh, for sure. Yeah, it would still be it would still be habitable. It would be but like a little less ideal. We did. The wobbles aren't great, but they tend to they don't they're not like super fast. They tend to take a long time to happen. So there's there's one of the salient science stories that is fake that has hit me several times is the idea that the Earth is about to wobble and that the climate is going to shift extremely rapidly. But these wobbles take many, many thousands or tens of thousands of years. And so they don't tend to produce rapid shifts the way that I don't know, say, like, a bunch of new CO2 in the atmosphere might.

• 45:27John Green?

  So, yeah, let me ask you a question. These wobbles that take tens of thousands of years.

• 45:34Hank Green?

  Mm hmm.

• 45:35John Green?

  Could you come up with a different name? Because wobble does sound like it happens fast.

• 45:39Hank Green?

  I know. Yeah.

• 45:40John Green?

  To the salient people.

• 45:41Hank Green?

  Well, in fairness, and in fairness to the scientists, tens of thousands of years is is very fast.

• 45:49John Green?

  Okay.

• 45:50Hank Green?

  But like, that's not how people think about it. It's very fast to the people who are doing it. But yeah, I don't know that they do call them wobbles. They probably call them something else. But we're just trying to tell people things and then they freak out. But like, it's it's literally some guy, you know, who like, is getting attention on the Internet and then he gets on the podcasts. And which podcasts does he get on? He gets on the ones where they talk about stuff that's dumb. But like, they get a lot of views because they're salience factories.

• 46:21John Green?

  Yes.

• 46:22Hank Green?

  Anyway.

• 46:22John Green?

  Yes.

• 46:23Hank Green?

  Anyway.

• 46:23John Green?

  Salience factories and UFC analysis factories. Those are their two major.

• 46:28Hank Green?

  Less less of that second one. Yeah.

• 46:31John Green?

  Yeah. Okay, Hank. Well, thank you for podding with me. Thank you for saving the spicy stuff for the end.

• 46:37Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 46:37John Green?

  And I appreciate being with you every time that we get to do this together. Thanks to everybody for listening. You can email us your questions at [email protected].

• 46:48Hank Green?

  This podcast is edited by Linus Obenhouse. It's mixed by Joseph Tuna-Medich. Our marketing specialist is Brooke Shotwell. It's produced by Rosiana Halsarohassan, Hannah West. Our executive producer is Seth Radley. Our editorial assistant is Deboki Chakravarti. The music you're hearing now and at the beginning of the podcast is by the great Gunarola. And as they say in our hometown, John Green.

• 47:06John Green?

  Don't forget to be awesome.

• 47:07Hank Green?

  He nasty.