Matthew Brown Exposes How Whistleblowers Are Being Set Up

This episode of WEAPONIZED features a detailed follow-up conversation with whistleblower Matt Brown, who expands on his assertions about a classified UAP-related effort known as “Immaculate Constellation”. Brown explains that the program is not simply an AI tool but a layered operation that collects, filters, and compartmentalizes UAP data from across government systems. According to him, its structure allows information to be routed into restricted channels while leaving much of the broader defense and intelligence community - intensionally and by design - in the dark of its full nature, capability and scope. The interview shifts into Brown’s personal experience after coming forward. He describes losing his government job, facing financial hardship, and enduring significant emotional strain, all while receiving little institutional support. Brown recounts his meeting with officials from an ODNI mandated UAP investigative effort under Tulsi Gabbard’s DIG (Director’s Initiative Group), which he initially was told would provide protection and formal whistleblower protections. Instead, he says the interaction felt more like a nefarious intelligence operation than an effort to examine his testimony and assertions. Brown ultimately argues that the aftermath - including reputational attacks and allegations against him - reflects a broader pattern aimed at harming and undermining UAP whistleblowers. Brown suggests secrecy around the issue is systemic and reinforced through both bureaucratic structures and informal pressure. The conversation closes on a larger theme: that meaningful disclosure will likely depend less on official channels and more on sustained public scrutiny and independent journalism. *Check out Matt Brown's Substack ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://sunofabramelin.substack.com⁠ and follow him on X https://x.com/SunOfAbramelin ••• 🤖 MERCH : https://Weaponized-Shop. Fourthwall.com 👽 MAIN : https://YouTube.com/@JeremyCorbell 🛸 CLIPS : https://YouTube.com/@WEAPONIZEDclips 🕵️ MORE : https://WeaponizedPodcast.com GOT A TIP? Reach out to us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• If you missed the full IMMACULATE CONSTELLATION series with UFO whistleblower, Matthew Brown... you can catch up here : PART 1 : https://youtu.be/ZAxI-LDrDqA PART 2 : https://youtu.be/4n_bRtnIP14 PART 3 : https://youtu.be/PtBVAxoHeaY ••• Watch Corbell's six-part UFO docuseries titled UFO REVOLUTION on TUBI here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tubitv.com/series/300002259/tmz-presents-ufo-revolution/season-2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch Knapp’s six-part UFO docuseries titled INVESTIGATION ALIEN on NETFLIX here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://netflix.com/title/81674441⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• You can now watch all of Corbell's movies for free on YouTube here : BOB LAZAR : AREA 51 & FLYING SAUCERS ⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/sZaE5rIavVA⁠⁠⁠ HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER ⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/TczkJ6UAQ8A⁠⁠⁠ PATIENT SEVENTEEN ⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/gDVX0kRqXxE⁠⁠⁠ ••• For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠WeaponizedPodcast.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 0:56Speaker 02

  And I raised my concerns about the October 7th attack on Israel and intelligence I was very familiar with from the region. It is a very telling sign what they did afterwards with my concerns about the actions of Israel and our government. We found one of the key players in the legacy security architecture lately or currently at Northrop Grumman. There have been coordinated online attacks against myself, when Borland, David Grush, Lou Elizondo, Jeff Sotelli.

• 1:40Speaker 02

  The point is, is it's systematic and it's ongoing to this day. We have identified the main players and found that they are active duty service members or reserve service members with active clearances, doing this on their work time from work computers. This is weaponized.

• 2:05Speaker 03

  Due to the sensitive nature of some of the material discussed in this interview, several names have been redacted to protect the safety of all parties involved.

• 2:15George Knapp?

  So Matt Brown, Immaculate Constellation, those two words, that name is now out in the world and has received a lot of attention. And I went and looked online to see what the current evaluation of it is. And it's got, you know, it's got legs. It's kind of a story that's got legs. It was introduced to Congress in 2024. And we talked to you for Weaponized in three episodes and got a huge reaction from people. We're curious about how it has changed your life, how the subject matter has changed itself. So I wanted to catch up with you.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Thank you, George. Thank you, Jeremy. It's been a long, nine months, I think. We're not quite at the anniversary yet, but that's good to be here, catch up on that and see where things go next.

• 3:05George Knapp?

  So you've called Immaculate Constellation the two-faced god. Maybe that's a good place to start. For those who didn't see the earlier episodes that we did with you, why do you call it that? What was it? What is it?

• 3:16Speaker 02

  Janus. So I mean, that analogy was used related to how it processes data, right? And sequesters that data from people who aren't cleared to view it. Immaculate Constellation has a program, you know, since I was never formally read into it, I cannot authoritatively state what that was. But it certainly involved, you know, the intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance of UAP and RV around the world, especially, you know, in relation to our adversaries and their interactions with the phenomena. One thing that, you know, kind

• 3:58Speaker 02

  of took off was identifying Immaculate Constellation with a specific platform or, you know, a specific like cyber capability, right? And one thing I want to point out that I tried to in our first interview as well, which is The key here is, you know, who is being briefed on this? And that's OSD policy. Who is in charge of the oversight for a specific category of SAPs? And those are operations and logistics. So people who are saying Immaculate Constellation is an AI? Or is the sentience program from NRO? Or is XYZ the reverse engineering program?

• 4:41Speaker 02

  Speculation. What is certain is that where I found it and its mission described fits with it being a operational SAP.

• 4:53George Knapp?

  USAP, is that what it fits into? That an unacknowledged special access program?

• 4:58Speaker 02

  Correct, is like the security structure. And when I'm referring to oversight of SAPs, like there's three bins for oversight generally and control.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  So you will have like intelligence, you will have your acquisition and sustainment, and then you will have, you know, policy overseeing the operations and logistics. So, you know, your key here is to look at the office. The office isn't building stealth bombers. It isn't managing surveillance and reconnaissance networks. It's setting the objectives for the Pentagon, setting the objectives for what we are doing on a day-to-day basis. And what we do on a day-to-day basis are operations that are very often, when they're classified controlled in special programs. And this is one of those, to the best of my knowledge.

• 5:48George Knapp?

  The way you described it to us, and then the description given to Congress is this is an AI program that basically scours all the databases and archives and platforms and military intelligence agencies and scoops up really good UFO, UAP, USO, video, images, things like that, and puts it somewhere else.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 6:10George Knapp?

  As if it never existed on those platforms.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  Uh huh. That certainly appears to be the, one of the main functions or a capability that is part of Immaculate Constellation, right? Since it's an operation, again, it's not just one platform, not just one capability. One of the things that is involved is what you just said, identifying collection events of anomalous phenomena, sequestering them outside of, you know, the general population or the general incoming stream of intelligence and make sure that it goes to where it's supposed to go within the legacy program, I would assume, or more broadly, just

• 6:49Speaker 02

  the defense and intelligence community as a whole. So, you know, is AI used? Clearly, right? That is a massive amount of data. Is, are clandestine surveillance platforms used? Yes, they're collecting the data. They are all part of an operation, right? So, one way that SAPs are structured is like nests. So, you'll have a parent SAP above them, and it oversees many smaller programs, right? Each of those programs might have a very specific mission, like specifically managing the classification standards, right?

• 7:31Speaker 02

  Ones will actually be tasked with, you know, identifying where and when to collect in the first place, to task things, and then the operation itself. These are all, you know, distinct roles and responsibilities. But since you're at the Pentagon, you're at headquarters, these all filter up into one comprehensive strategic view where you see everything. And, you know, that's what's incorporated here in the Immaculate Constellation report. So, what is on display are many capabilities, many programs overseen by Immaculate Constellation.

• 8:04Speaker 02

  That's a pretty good summary.

• 8:05George Knapp?

  You know, what people have said is that you saw one document about some war games in 2018, you misinterpreted it, and it means way less than you're suggesting. And you've read all the other kind of criticisms that have popped up since you introduced this, or rather, Michael Schellenberger, the journalist who wrote this 12-page report, or was it 11-page, Jeremy?

• 8:30Speaker 02

  I'm kidding with you.

• 8:30Jeremy Corbell?

  I am so pissed right now. I got two questions. Uh, not about that. Um, I'm angry today and I gotta be honest because you're gonna see it. So, two questions. One is, um, today, are you able to tell us more? So, everybody should go look at your first interview and they'll understand who you are. They'll understand what your career was like. And then they can catch up to being here now with us. Okay, but everybody should do that. Two questions for you. One is, are you able to, to say and talk more today than you were? More freely today than you were the first time we interviewed you, uh, publicly, on camera?

• 9:12Jeremy Corbell?

  Are you able to say more today than you were before?

• 9:16Speaker 02

  No.

• 9:16Jeremy Corbell?

  In general?

• 9:17Speaker 02

  Uh, in general, yes. And as it relates to, uh, Immaculate Constellation and the many, uh, many, many, many documents and bodies of evidence that I consulted, you know, that were all, uh, non-public. I'm not able to speak anymore about those. I'm only able to speak about what I, uh, received clearance for from the State Department to speak about.

• 9:38Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay.

• 9:38Speaker 02

  But I am able to speak about, you know, uh, what has happened in my life since. I'm no longer a government employee. Um, that all.

• 9:47Jeremy Corbell?

  Pause, pause that. We're gonna get there. So, George, um, you're making a joke and it's funny, but, um, we should dissect that for people later. I think what's real important right now is fundamentally, people need to go back and look at what Matt said, who he is. You asked him, "Did you make it up?" That's basically what you're saying. "Did you make it up?" And that's a loaded question because, uh, we know the answer, but now we're just, you know, gonna go for this and, and the answer is, he did not. But there's a reason George is asking that. But before we go there, second and last question until we move on. You keep saying Immaculate Constellation was an operation. Will you educate our viewership why you're saying the word "operation" rather than saying "program"? Or would you like me to do it?

• 10:31Speaker 02

  I mean. You know, a program is more generic, right? A program can be an operation. It can also be a scientific research, you know, agenda. It can also be, you know, buying things from Lockheed Martin, right? Those are all programs. Operation is in the field. You are you are out in the real world, using military intelligence assets to to carry out change, to advance the national interest, to defend our country. So a program can be sitting in Idaho, you know, researching some cool nuclear fuel. But an operation is going to be out there, especially military operation, in the Pentagon, when this is happening.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  It's gonna be out there in the world. Real world risks, lives are on the line.

• 11:21Jeremy Corbell?

  So the other thing I would say about that is that a program, even if they put out a false name, or they change the name and all this stuff, an operation, and correct me if I'm wrong, but in the in the way that we're using it, is that it is functional, right? But you're not gonna necessarily go find an operation name the way you would find an official program name. So in the in the White House, am I wrong in that? That's okay.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  I think you are correct.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  People above me.

• 11:57Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  I have had access to tools and visibility that I don't. So I cannot say, you know, what they were or were not able to, you know, look up.

• 12:09Jeremy Corbell?

  Oh, we know for sure that that so so here's the thing. If somebody said Matt Brown made up a document that he was exposed to on a server that he reported shouldn't be on that server, and then Matt wrote a report because he's a perfect, what is it, didactic memory? What's the word? We got like perfect audio or per visual memory.

• 12:34Speaker 02

  Photogenic?

• 12:35Jeremy Corbell?

  Photogenic, not photogenic, that's so good. You're photographing. Photographing my, yeah. But anyway, so it's just funny, like. What people need to, what I think the audience needs to understand is there was a report that you were exposed to. Then you wrote something.

• 12:49George Knapp?

  There was a briefing.

• 12:50Jeremy Corbell?

  Sorry, I'm sorry, a briefing that you were exposed to. And then you wrote a report and you notified Congress, Senate, I don't know how you separate them all. You, you notified people, you got stuff through Freedom, you got stuff through clearance, through State Department. So I just wanted to clarify for audience what an operation is compared to, like if they go look up ALSA. ALSA was a program, it's different than an operation.

• 13:15George Knapp?

  Right.

• 13:17George Knapp?

  So this AI system, somewhere in the federal government, in the, in the executive branch, it reaches out and scoops up interesting images and information and takes it somewhere. And then what's done with it? What do they, what do they do with that?

• 13:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I mean, people have connected the dots between NRO's sentient program as being one of the artificial intelligence capabilities that our intelligence and military community has, has had access to for about a decade now at least.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  So what does it do with it? I mean, again, I was never formally part of this operation, I was never formally read in. I am deducing things from the briefing that was given, which was explicit about certain things, but it's again a PowerPoint.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  So I mean, it classifies data and sends that data to, to, to wherever there is the mission need and there's the clearance for it. So when we're talking about the UAP problem set, you know, things like this are going to be, since we're talking photographic or visual geospatial intelligence, right? It's going to be going through NGA. And then from there, you know, they will have a roster of the different units and then offices that will, that are cleared for intelligence and will receive it to use it either in their analysis or in their, you know, live day-to-day operations, because again, UAP are real. They are in contact with our forces on a near daily basis, whether those forces happen to recognize it or not.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  There's a distinct operational need for that intelligence. And theoretically, this, this system is what fulfills that need while, while

• 15:03Speaker 02

  keeping people who are not cleared in the dark about the entirety of this.

• 15:08Jeremy Corbell?

  So the big question that I think was kind of missed by a lot of people that watch this, you know, they're trying to assume because of mass words and his articulation is so specific. Yes, there is an operation, a technological operation to siphon off the NHI contact. Promised, known, unknown, unsuspected, suspected, planned. And it does use an artificial intelligence to keep everybody in the dark within the intelligence and military industrial complex that doesn't have a need to know, correct or incorrect? And that's a big thing that people kind of missed and you're highlighting.

• 15:53George Knapp?

  And somebody like Susan Goh at the Department of War can say, gosh, that Matt Brown comes out with this stuff, we searched high and low through our records and we can't find anything that shows that Immaculate Constellation was ever within the Department of Defense or pending on or D O W. And she'd be right.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  Apparently, you know, I question anything coming from Ms. Goh Goff, Public Affairs, AKA Perception Management out of DODs.

• 16:20George Knapp?

  But technically, it's not in within the DOD.

• 16:23Jeremy Corbell?

  Or she's lying.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  Or she's lying or doesn't know.

• 16:26Jeremy Corbell?

  But I think you're right. Technically, it's under White House authority. It's under.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. And to jump out of the context of the time, which I try to stay in, in this conversation, right? I try not to introduce information I've learned since into my testimony or whatever. But I think what you're getting at is, is true. It's been learned through multiple sources that Immaculate Constellation is housed or ran out of the National Security Council.

• 16:54Jeremy Corbell?

  Yes.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  Which makes perfect sense, given the classification structure that's been, you know, kind of revealed by some very diligent researchers out.

• 17:03Jeremy Corbell?

  Independently verified by me and George separately multiple times, independently verified by you, independently verified by people that do verification for me and George. I mean, it's like, I'm, I'm high confidence, as they'd say, that absolutely that she might not be lying in her press statement directly because the authorities of Immaculate Constellation. Are you looking at that? My niece painted my nail.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:27Jeremy Corbell?

  My niece painted my nail. Sorry. Go ahead.

• 17:30George Knapp?

  Your niece.

• 17:31Jeremy Corbell?

  My frickin' niece, man. She's, yeah, my brother's daughter.

• 17:35George Knapp?

  So it existed somewhere. I guess the most obvious question I have is, did it change as a result of you coming forward and sharing this information? Do you, I mean, I'm just asking to guess. You're not there anymore, but what do you think happened? Did they circle the wagons, give it a new name? What would have happened?

• 17:52Jeremy Corbell?

  Because he was an active federal employee when he interviewed with us.

• 17:57George Knapp?

  Correct.

• 17:58Jeremy Corbell?

  Wow. Can you answer his question now?

• 18:01Speaker 02

  What happened with it? I mean, maybe they changed the name. If I had to guess, maybe my face is on a PowerPoint briefing as the next person to expose Immaculate Constellation, although apparently that honor goes to Mr. Lou Elizondo. Thank you, Lou, for exposing Immaculate Constellation.

• 18:19Jeremy Corbell?

  Did he do so accidentally inside the intelligence community or Prip as well?

• 18:25Speaker 02

  You know, the briefing itself listed him through his exposure of ATIP ASAP as responsible for exposing Immaculate Constellation.

• 18:32George Knapp?

  So once it's exposed, maybe they changed the name, or maybe they didn't. Maybe they're just cocky about that and just left it the same.

• 18:38Jeremy Corbell?

  I heard they changed the name immediately, yeah.

• 18:40George Knapp?

  At like, well, I wouldn't be surprised. But if, again, asking you a guess, there's no way they made it go away.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  Oh, absolutely not. It's an operation. It is a mission. The mission doesn't go away just because of public exposure.

• 18:57Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration blog, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 19:23George Knapp?

  How's it been for you? How's your life gone since then? And take your time on this because there's a lot of angles I'd like to pursue. But, you know, Jeremy took you to Congress. He introduced you to a number of people who were involved in these hearings. And, you know, and then the information was introduced onto the record by journalists. And there have been continued inquiries and questions about it from members of Congress and media. But I don't think a lot of people think about you and what this means. I know we here. Almost every day from somebody will say, come on whistleblowers, step forward, spill the beans. There's no way they'd ever think of prosecuting you for telling the truth. You have nothing to worry about and give it to us because I've been sitting here on Axe

• 20:08George Knapp?

  for three, four months now and I'm really impatient and I need it now.

• 20:14George Knapp?

  The reality for whistleblowers, people like yourself who step forward and who share information, do so at considerable risk to your personal reputation, your personal lives, your future employment and other aspects of your life that no one seems to care about.

• 20:31Jeremy Corbell?

  This shit is scary.

• 20:33George Knapp?

  Yeah, you say it, you make the sacrifice, put yourself at risk and then, okay, get out of the way. Who's next? That's the public view.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, that's basically true. You know, one thing that hasn't changed is the treatment of this subject as entertainment.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  It's not entertainment. This is gravely serious and it affects every single person in a way that every single person should be aware and thinking themselves about how to adapt to this current environment that has been hidden.

• 21:06Jeremy Corbell?

  The emerging reality, the emerging consensus reality.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  Correct. Yeah. How has my life been? Been pretty terrible. I will start with some positives though. It has been very positive to see the people who did listen and who did take that interview to go start do their own research and then find their own conclusions. That's for someone like me, very gratifying to see. The kind words from people who are warriors in this space longer than me matters a lot. And the friends behind the scenes who have, who were helping me then or who have come my way since, I'm very grateful for all of those things. So those are positives.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  Negatives, I mean, I lost my job. I wasn't really in a good position to do experience.

• 21:58Jeremy Corbell?

  Did you lose your job or did you quit?

• 22:01Speaker 02

  I lost my job.

• 22:03Jeremy Corbell?

  You did?

• 22:03Speaker 02

  Yes, I did not quit.

• 22:07Speaker 02

  Technically, we were dogged at the time.

• 22:11Jeremy Corbell?

  By Elon?

• 22:11Speaker 02

  By Elon is a verb. It is. It was a verb. It is a verb. I was a Doge casualty along with other people in my office. It was a very convenient way to ensure my exit.

• 22:26Jeremy Corbell?

  Right.

• 22:27George Knapp?

  Don't you want me to never? I'm sorry.

• 22:28Jeremy Corbell?

  No, go ahead.

• 22:29George Knapp?

  You'll never enter again. You'll never get another government job. Certainly nothing involving a clearance.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Well, funny you mention that. I was recently told by someone from ODNI that all of my clearances and tickets are good to go.

• 22:41George Knapp?

  So you were told by ODNI recently that your clearances are good to go. And then theoretically, there's nothing blocking you from getting another government job, even in the intelligence realm.

• 22:52Jeremy Corbell?

  ODNI told you that? ODNI means for our viewers?

• 22:56George Knapp?

  The Office of the Director of National Intelligence.

• 22:58Jeremy Corbell?

  Is run by Tulsi Gabbard, and she created something called the DIG.

• 23:02George Knapp?

  Well, we'll come back with that. But I mean, is there a way for you to check? It depended of what you were told. Are my clearances still good?

• 23:11Speaker 02

  Not that I am familiar with. I'm sure there is a way to formally request your records and see when it was and wasn't in access. But in a practical sense, no. The easiest way to find out is to apply for a job and have someone on the inside verify that your tickets are in order.

• 23:30Jeremy Corbell?

  So weird that ODNI would tell you that because, man, I heard the absolute opposite about you from ODNI. It's weird.

• 23:39George Knapp?

  Bad stuff.

• 23:40Jeremy Corbell?

  Oh, yeah. No, I heard, we'll talk later in this episode or whatever the fuck we're doing right now. But I just like, I think that's ironic.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  You know, I don't know how people are out there living a life, especially a life where they support a family after being a whistleblower. Because in my experience, this is the very opposite of lucrative. Just to talk money, I'm very grateful for all the support I get, but it amounts to less than $1,000 a month.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  You know, that's not a career. That's not a, I became a whistleblower and made it big. And, uh, you know, Matt Brown is set.

• 24:26Speaker 02

  No, it has been, it's quite the opposite. There is, it's my experience, no money in ufology. And I'm not interested in a career in ufology.

• 24:34Jeremy Corbell?

  It is my experience that anything people can do to not confront what you're telling people, they'll do. So one, because it's like an ontological shock. It's like, um, if you have to confront extraterrestrial life, if we're gonna call it that, or whatever we call it, non-human intelligence, then we have to confront what it means to be a human being. And that's fucking hard, dude. You know, you're worried about like making dimmer and stuff, you know? So, let, tho- those things will fall away, like the shadows fall away naturally, when you just keep telling it like it is. So, I know, because we talk all the time,

• 25:14Jeremy Corbell?

  what you went through to get your words, you didn't even take the opportunity to be public. I walked you into offices. I put you in front of three individuals in private meetings, hid you as a camera person, and they trusted me enough to hear you out. And you chose not to, to try to go out there with your face. And I, I think that, that's so bold of you to, to do this now. But it, it has had a toll on you, and I think people should know, like, people should know what, how it's affected you negatively. And, and if I'm going to somewhere we don't need to go?

• 25:56George Knapp?

  Well, let's ask and see, see where it ends up. In a personal, extremely personal, uh, sense, I think is where he was asking.

• 26:04Jeremy Corbell?

  Yes.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:08Jeremy Corbell?

  I want people to see you.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  So I think it's important to note that, you know, when I went to those meetings, I was still a State Department employee.

• 26:22Speaker 02

  Took some time off work to do that. And I was a State Department employee all the times before that, too.

• 26:29Jeremy Corbell?

  You were nervous that day, that day when I would do that triple set.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  Well, absolutely.

• 26:33Jeremy Corbell?

  It was, it was a tough day.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  Series of days.

• 26:38Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, series of days.

• 26:42Speaker 02

  So I don't really know what to say. It's.

• 26:46George Knapp?

  Well, you're married, right? Uh, this has got to land on, on your wife like a giant anvil, I would think.

• 26:53Jeremy Corbell?

  She didn't opt in. That was not her choice, right? She didn't opt in.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel terrible. She has suffered immensely because of what I'm doing.

• 27:04George Knapp?

  She's an amazing woman, she is.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  Strong and courageous.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  You know, she has lifelong health issues, genetic.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  You know, it's hard. It's very hard on her. And she's also very, you know, artistic and career driven woman. And so having to manage my inability to provide and my psychological turmoil is, is a very unfair burden to her. So it's, um, you know, shit rolls downhill and ain't that the truth?

• 27:36George Knapp?

  Psychological turmoil, meaning, uh, you know, the emotional effects of coming forward and, and the consequences that you're facing. I mean, it weighs on you all the time, right?

• 27:48Speaker 02

  Those, but I think, you know, I, I cry basically every morning. Um, and it's mainly because.

• 27:53Jeremy Corbell?

  Men cry, dude.

• 27:55Speaker 02

  Yep. It's mainly because humanity is failing to meet the challenge of our time. We are.

• 28:02Speaker 02

  Not doing the right thing collectively. And you know, the vast majority of that responsibility rests on our leadership. It has rested on our leadership. But that fact does not abrogate people's responsibility to change their conditions. And it is not going to come from above. It has to come from below. The sooner people get off their phones and start thinking about how they can adapt to this reality, which includes a government that does not honor them, does not respect the constitutional rule of law, and is subverted by foreign interests. Talking about it on Twitter isn't going to change that. Going to a protest isn't going to change that.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  At one point, we were a people who could organize and achieve political ends. We need to be that again. And that starts with a very correct understanding of our reality and our place in it.

• 28:58George Knapp?

  So on a personal level, it affects you financially. You don't have that job anymore. It affects your marriage and whether it was a good idea or a bad idea has to come up in the conversation, I would think, often. You know, financial and emotional turmoil. She has health issues. You're not able to really help. You don't have coverage anymore, do you?

• 29:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, no. I do not, and I was a contractor, so I never really had insurance. It's not worth speaking up.

• 29:27George Knapp?

  Again, the idea of a whistleblower. Yeah, right. Come on, go forward. Go whistleblowers, we got your back.

• 29:34Jeremy Corbell?

  Oh, your Twitter? Twitter got his back?

• 29:35George Knapp?

  Twitter, other social media platforms.

• 29:39Jeremy Corbell?

  Other organizations.

• 29:40George Knapp?

  The reality is, nobody has your back.

• 29:42Speaker 02

  Outside of my friends and family, no. There is, yeah, friends and family are the only support I have found institutionally. It's not even worth mentioning.

• 29:53George Knapp?

  In the, we got your back.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  Yes, of course.

• 29:55George Knapp?

  Yeah.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Of course you do. But to your point, George, like the broader public and government, absolutely not.

• 30:04George Knapp?

  You do have some new friends you didn't have before. So, you know, November 2024, this comes out. And then in September of 2025, there's another hearing. And there was a group of people that Jeremy arranged to be there in the room. And you've got to know some of those guys, some of the people who testified. Is there support there? And could you talk about those relationships that have developed?

• 30:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, in general, I can talk in generalities. People, I don't want to betray confidence or put their names out there. But yeah, behind the scenes, there's some very welcome support, including from other whistleblowers that, you know, testified that day under oath.

• 30:41Jeremy Corbell?

  Everybody testified. Yeah, I'm gonna, everybody testified. Got your back, Matt Brown.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. So without that support, I don't think, well, number one, I wouldn't have gotten to being in a position to do anything I did. But certainly since then, it's been the only thing that I've really had to lean on.

• 31:02George Knapp?

  You talk to them. Hey, we've been there. We've done that. The guys who have testified and have come forward and have done some of what you have done. There is a level of support, emotional at least.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, Jeff, Alex, Dylan, yourself, all fantastic individuals I can count on. Of course, Jeremy, you know, miracle worker. And then just, just people that the public doesn't know. I talk to every day.

• 31:32Jeremy Corbell?

  I know that a lot of people, a lot of people you don't know that talk to me. So there we go.

• 31:41George Knapp?

  After that hearing in September of 2025, Jeremy and I went and met with some people that shared information that was amazingly candid and seemingly supportive of what we've been doing.

• 31:54Jeremy Corbell?

  Is it a federal organization? Was it an intelligence agency?

• 31:57George Knapp?

  It is.

• 31:58Jeremy Corbell?

  Do they run all the intelligence agencies in America?

• 32:01George Knapp?

  They do. They are umbrella organizations.

• 32:02Jeremy Corbell?

  Would it be ODNI? It is. That's, that's good. It was almost like you were there for this.

• 32:09George Knapp?

  So they asked, they told us, we're gonna get to the bottom of this. We're really digging in. We're authorized by the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, who is interested in this issue, to go out and find credible information, incredible sources of information. And they asked us if we would share names of people that we would recommend. Yours was one of them. So can you confirm on the record that you met with those folks?

• 32:35Speaker 02

  I did. I met with the DIG, the DIG that was tasked to the UAP portion of the...

• 32:42Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, the DIG, the Director's Initiative, under Tulsi Gabbard, who Tulsi, she, she, she set it up with multiple parts. And one of those parts was the deep dive investigation on a federal level into UAP. That's what you're talking about for our audience.

• 32:59Speaker 02

  Absolutely. There's been a little news of the DIG publicly now since the, some publication about work that she's done on election fraud, I believe.

• 33:09Jeremy Corbell?

  She's a gangster. I just want to be really clear. Tulsi Gabbard is a gangster. She is 100% on the level and she knows bullshit when she hears it. And she stood up an operation.

• 33:23Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay, so that's all I'm gonna say. Continue.

• 33:26Speaker 02

  Well, I, just acknowledging the fact that, yes, I was reached out to by those people and on the recommendation of friends and other whistleblowers who went and talked with them. I, I went and spoke with them as well.

• 33:41George Knapp?

  How deep did they dig? I mean, they ask it to tell the whole story all over again? How, how deep did DIG dig? Yeah, I guess.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  It's not very. In fact, it was kind of surprising, the questions they didn't ask and the ones they did.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  We can go into that, but maybe we, we set the scene a little bit for that day.

• 34:01George Knapp?

  But, yeah. Well, go ahead. Set it.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Okay, so.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  So this, the timeframe is important. It's shortly after the September 9th hearing. You know, a moment of some triumph, I think, for us. We got some very credible people to the stand. And on a personal level, it was very meaningful to see Dylan Borland on the stand under oath. Him and I talked about that moment for years and worked very hard to help to help to make that happen. So after that hearing, you know, the word comes into the network that this dig is started up and a man named

• 34:49Speaker 03

  Name redacted.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  Is running it and he's interviewing the, the big names, the UAP whistleblowers who spoke to

• 34:57Speaker 03

  Name redacted.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  And so this man reaches out to me through, through others.

• 35:05Jeremy Corbell?

  It's okay. You can talk freely.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  And it basically just gets down to, hey, we want to meet all your work.

• 35:13Speaker 02

  We know UAP are real. We want to get to the bottom of it. Come in and meet with us and tell us your story. And, oh, by the way, we've stood up this UAP whistleblower protection program. We want to tell you about it and have you come sign on the dotted line and learning from their behaviors. What's their agenda and what's going on? And, you know, that's, that's not the mindset going in.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  But there was certainly a large amount of caution and wariness of betrayal.

• 35:44Jeremy Corbell?

  In fact, we talked extensively prior to your going in because we had a good friend. One that I'm speaking of right now, that we had go in and kind of like full Monty, open kimono, show the cards. Now that operation, I'm going to call it. They have talked with everybody that we have sent them, everybody. But Matt was early on. He was low hanging fruit in the sense that we didn't know what we know about them now. So it was, so Matt, my point is we were cautiously optimistic. Is that fair to say when you went in?

• 36:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, and people that I had talked to who had been in related positive experience. Um, and were led to believe that, you know, there would be further meetings and were led to believe that there would be a cooperative investigation that they would be a part of.

• 36:36Jeremy Corbell?

  Like Dylan is an example, maybe?

• 36:38Speaker 02

  That's a good example.

• 36:39Jeremy Corbell?

  A good example, okay.

• 36:41George Knapp?

  Have you talked to Dylan about your mutual experiences then in front of, with these people?

• 36:45Speaker 02

  Absolutely. We talk, we talk every day.

• 36:48George Knapp?

  Like we have video call, yeah. Is there a, is there a conclusion or are you, have you had a, an agreement in terms of assessing how it went?

• 36:58Speaker 02

  I think so. I think we've arrived at that and the conclusion is in the negative.

• 37:03George Knapp?

  When you hear that, uh, ODNI has started an initiative to get to the bottom of things and a very broad kind of objectives of finding out the truth about UFOs, gathering all up and doing something with it, are you encouraged? Does that, that sounds like, I know how we reacted. Great, good, let's get to it.

• 37:22Jeremy Corbell?

  But did we, so we, we acted that way, but was that what we were thinking?

• 37:25George Knapp?

  Well, you know what we were thinking. We're suspicious. I am.

• 37:28Jeremy Corbell?

  But our audience doesn't know what we were thinking. What were we thinking?

• 37:32George Knapp?

  Well, I know I would be suspicious of that kind of a setup because we've seen it too many times on, over a lot of decades of, uh, boy, it's time we get to the bottom of this. And then really they all either have ulterior motives or they fizzle. This we heard, we, we spoke to people face to face and what they were saying is what we wanted to hear. I just recall that when we got an invitation to go meet with these folks, we were suspicious. And then we sat down and spent several hours going through this. They explained what the objectives were and we were encouraged. We leave that meeting and going, well shit, if this is, if they're sincere, this would really be a great thing.

• 38:11Jeremy Corbell?

  If they were.

• 38:11George Knapp?

  If we, you know, we are suspicious by nature.

• 38:15Jeremy Corbell?

  Did you notice that we had a choice of meeting in a cafe, meeting in the visitor center or meeting in a skiff? And I chose for us the visitor center. Cause that was a nice middle ground, which was like. If they were gonna fuck with our phones, which we left.

• 38:33Speaker 03

  Name redacted.

• 38:35Jeremy Corbell?

  Then that would be interesting and we would have prepared for that. If they, if we didn't go into a skiff, because then maybe that information would, we, we would be told, you can't talk about. So we went to the visitor center and that's different than Matt. Matt went into a skiff and no one's supposed to tell me what happened in a skiff with you.

• 38:55Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 38:56Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay. Is that fair, George, for me to say? Okay. So now go ahead and tell us what the fuck happened.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I was invited to come to Liberty Crossing, which is an intelligence facility and uh.

• 39:08Jeremy Corbell?

  You're familiar with it.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  I've been there multiple, multiple, multiple times in my career. So yes, I'm quite familiar with it. I mean, so I was invited there. I was told, um, you know, access won't be a problem. All your clearances are up to date, so you are cleared to come into our facility. And we will put you in a, in a room with us. We can talk about anything in there.

• 39:32Jeremy Corbell?

  And it's supposed to be confidential a hundred percent?

• 39:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 39:35Jeremy Corbell?

  So they couldn't tell a journalist what you talked about in there?

• 39:39Speaker 02

  I would certainly hope not.

• 39:40Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  So the day comes, I uh, go to this location.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  I take the metro there. I meet the contact.

• 39:55Speaker 03

  Name redacted.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Uh, in a, in a car in the parking lot and I'm taken to Liberty Crossing.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  Check in like a normal visitor's process to uh, intelligence facility. So you know, it's like I'm, I'm back in school. Right.

• 40:14Jeremy Corbell?

  Did you bring your phone?

• 40:15Speaker 02

  No, I didn't bring any technology with me.

• 40:18Jeremy Corbell?

  Why?

• 40:19Speaker 02

  Well, I had learned from others who had gone that people who went to Liberty Crossing and brought their phone with them, uh, came out of their meeting and found that their phone had been hacked, the entire content on it duplicated. Um, and that when OD and I, security was informed of that, they were told, uh, that it wasn't them who had messed with their phone. Um, and that that's just very strange. Sorry.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  So to me, that seems like a very good reason to not bring any electronic devices.

• 40:52Jeremy Corbell?

  Is it fair to say that also as a patriot, that you've been warned about foreign intelligence gathering on you and you wanted to protect the United States of America by giving whistleblower a statement? And so you also were preparing to not allow that to happen?

• 41:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, and as to that, you know, I, instead of taking an Uber, I took the Metro. So, you know, I didn't,

• 41:16Speaker 02

  you know, make any sort of big deal about what was going on. It was just supposed to be another day. And then I just leave the house and I come back and nothing strange happened. Apparently, the fact that I took such measures, simple as they are, upset some people and made me a super spy. But no, I am always concerned from day one about foreign intelligence, tracking my activities and my words.

• 41:43Jeremy Corbell?

  It was your job. You worked in like nuclear matters.

• 41:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so, you know, to this day, I still, that's part of my daily risk assessment. So I go there. We are taken to the basement. This is in the middle of the government shutdown, so it's kind of a ghost town.

• 42:03Speaker 02

  And I'm expecting to go to like the formal conference rooms in the basement, but we end up going to essentially a conference room converted into storage slash working office space. Very X-Files, molder in the basement with boxes.

• 42:21Jeremy Corbell?

  Was that set up for you, do you think, or do you think?

• 42:23Speaker 02

  They even referenced the fact that they were like the X-Files office in the basement of the building. So again, the whole reason of me being there, at least for me, is to find out about a UAP whistleblower protection program.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  And You know, find out what that is and get myself into it. So they're gonna protect you because they recognize you as a UAP whistleblower? Correct. And that's why you're going in? And this, this program had been offered to friends who had gone in before. You know, they received a document, reviewed it and signed it. And I'm basically expecting, you know, that's how our meeting starts. Hear about this program, get into it, relay the basics of my story. They already saw the interview, so what more do you need? And then figure out, you know, what can I do to help? I'm also bringing in additional information that was not from government sources and providing that to them as a gesture of goodwill and trust.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  So, you know, that's, that's the experience I'm expecting to have. And the experience I got was a very wide-ranging, free-flowing conversation. Definitely some specific questions built in there. But in a SCIF? But in a SCIF, yes, we were in a SCIF, absolutely. And... Are you legally allowed to say what happened in that SCIF?

• 43:46Speaker 02

  Unclear. I think I'm okay to talk about what I talked about, but not the details of why I said what I said. You designed anything? No, so that's the most concerning thing for me. The, the whole reason of having that meeting never came about. The UAP whistleblower program by OD and I was never offered to me. I was never briefed on it. The only thing I was informed of was that, you know, do I want to become an ICIG UAP whistleblower? Very different thing. And I'm like, no.

• 44:21Speaker 02

  I see no advantage in that. Based on my friends' experience who have done the same thing, it is a trap. Dylan. Correct. And that was the end of that conversation. And that happened maybe 15 to 30 minutes in, certainly not how we started out.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  And moved on from there. It was very concerning, but I didn't raise my concern at the time because I'm waiting. You know, maybe we get to the end and they talk about this.

• 44:48Jeremy Corbell?

  So they didn't, like I was told by them, they didn't offer you a piece of paper to sign to protect yourself and you didn't decline to sign it?

• 44:57Speaker 02

  No offer, no.

• 44:58Jeremy Corbell?

  So that was a lie I was told, is that correct?

• 45:00Speaker 02

  Correct. No paper was offered to me, no program was described to me.

• 45:05Speaker 02

  When I indicated my disinterest in joining the ICIG with UAP whistleblower process, the conversation moved on and was not revisited.

• 45:16Jeremy Corbell?

  Man, I was lied to a bunch, George.

• 45:20Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 46:16George Knapp?

  Was there further contact with the two people in the room? Since, since you were in the skiff and had that conversation, have you stayed in touch with them? And if so, can you share what that conversation was about?

• 46:26Speaker 03

  Name redacted.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  There was limited contact afterwards. The meeting ended with me, you know, being invited to come back the very next week and talk with them again, you know, get into some of the details about the, the general issues I had raised and those general issues, you know, were UAP related, but I also, you know, was invited to talk about, you know, hey, do you have any other concerns about, you know, your time? We're a black box. You can say anything here. It's safe, you know, get it out. And I think.

• 46:57George Knapp?

  Did they ask you for names of other people that they should talk to?

• 47:01Speaker 02

  I can't recall that. And.

• 47:05Speaker 02

  I don't think I would have provided them.

• 47:06Jeremy Corbell?

  Oh, of course you wouldn't. I just wanna say, George, I bet if Tulsi Gabbard knew what people were doing on her behalf, that she would be fucking furious. Because I, I, I think she's um, on the level. So I just like, I'm, I hope this airs.

• 47:23Speaker 02

  I hope so too. So I think without uh, crossing a line, I think the topics discussed can be discussed here.

• 47:34Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  And, you know, I came in um,

• 47:40Speaker 02

  very skeptical. And so part of that skepticism shaped my behavior and that was to see, okay, if this is a real genuine initiative, this is gonna be a continuing relationship. You know, they are gonna seek to build a rapport with me and be concerned about my safety and well-being. And if those, you know, indicators are not observed, then you know, this is, you know, not as advertised. Um, or at least I am not perceived favorably. So I resolved to basically say as little as possible about my UAP knowledge, especially anything outside of the Immaculate Constellation Report itself. And I took that opportunity to raise other issues to see how they would react.

• 48:22Speaker 02

  In my mind, there is no greater issue to the United States government than the UAP and HI problem set. So I chose a lesser one and raised that topic to see how they would respond if they're, you know, serious national security professionals. They will recognize what I'm talking about and um, be interested in investigating that more. And so that issue was uh, uh, specific to Israel. And I raised my concerns about the October 7th attack on Israel and intelligence I was very familiar with uh, from the region. Very serious subject, but it still ranks below UAP.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  If they are not willing to engage in good faith on managing the apparent misdeeds by our closest ally, how can I trust them to handle our nation's most closely guarded secret?

• 49:15Jeremy Corbell?

  Because the dig is supposed to be looking at corruption. That's what Tulsi wanted, right? So is that, what, am I reading that right?

• 49:22Speaker 02

  Uh, you know, I'm not familiar with what Tulsi's objectives were, but she seems like a, you know, dedicated individual. It's not her fault. Her staff did not fulfill her intent.

• 49:34Jeremy Corbell?

  They did the opposite with the UAP thing and you're providing intelligence from your professional career on something of national security. And what, did they waive you off?

• 49:42Speaker 02

  No, they actually wanted to know not so much about the specifics of that, but what information I had access to that led me to that conclusion. What compartments and sub compartments I was reading. Basically, by their questions, they wanted to know how I knew what I knew in order to go correct that in the future and ensure that information was sequestered. Predictable. I don't know if that's the course taken, but that's what I expect was.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  So I won't go into the details about why I think those things because I am no longer a government employee. I was not a government employee when I went into O D and I, I was told by them that I could speak freely in there, but I was offered no paperwork to confirm that. So I'm being cautious here, but also, you know,

• 50:28Speaker 02

  it is

• 50:31Speaker 02

  a very telling sign what they did afterwards with my concerns about the actions of Israel and our governments and really.

• 50:39Jeremy Corbell?

  What did they do afterwards?

• 50:41Speaker 02

  I think just briefly here can state that they took my concerns about what happened that day and spun it as me having an anti-Chu agenda.

• 50:53Jeremy Corbell?

  An anti-what?

• 50:53Speaker 02

  Jew.

• 50:54Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay, like you. You hate the Jewish people?

• 50:56Speaker 02

  I hate Jewish people, that I'm an anti-Semite.

• 50:58Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  And that I, you know, have hatred in my heart because of October 7th about Israel and the Jewish people.

• 51:10Jeremy Corbell?

  When I told him that he was at a Jewish wedding, motherfucker, we had just gone to one, yeah.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  No, I was literally at my, one of my very dear friend's weddings and it was a Jewish wedding. So, you know.

• 51:23Jeremy Corbell?

  Mazel tov. Mazel tov. They were trying to paint him, I'm gonna really infuriate him and I see him like twitching and I want to be careful because it's really painful, but I'm gonna tell him the three things I was told about him that are untrue, the lies. But continue, I don't want to interrupt. And George has a pressing question.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think, I think the key thing is, you know, I didn't say what I was upset about. I said, I told them. Because of who I am and what I had access to, you know, I saw October 7th in a way the vast majority of people didn't. And it greatly affected me. And I didn't say in which way, right? I didn't say it had swayed my beliefs to support the Israeli cause or swayed my belief to support the Palestinian cause.

• 52:14Speaker 02

  The truth of it is, it hardened my heart against the Palestinians. It made me hate them. Seeing what they did to women, especially, and babies and children,

• 52:26Speaker 02

  hardened my heart to them and I'm ashamed to admit it. But I did not tell OD and I that. So if anything, based on the reality of my reaction to that day, I would be very pro-Semitic, very pro-Israel in my actions.

• 52:39Jeremy Corbell?

  And they tried to spin it. So because I'm not a political, George could maybe translate for me. I'm stunted politically. But let me just tell you, the brush with which you were painted directly after you were in the skiff, it takes about three weeks for them to flip their idea on me. OD and I contacted me and they told me, and just take this on the chin, this is what they said, I want your response. They told me three things.

• 53:13Jeremy Corbell?

  They said, Matthew Brown is a racist Jew hater. They said, not they, one individual from OD and I told me that in the skiff, Matthew Brown is a racist Jew hater. I believe those were the exact words. I need to look at, you know, back in my brain.

• 53:35Speaker 02

  Sure, figure it out.

• 53:36Jeremy Corbell?

  The other thing that was told to me was that Matthew Brown admitted to completely making up and fabricating that he saw an Immaculate Constellation

• 53:52Jeremy Corbell?

  document in the files.

• 53:54Speaker 02

  Right.

• 53:56Jeremy Corbell?

  And that he admitted to me that Matthew Brown made that up. He came up with the name, that he made it up. And the third big lie that was told to me, if I recall, was that.

• 54:13Jeremy Corbell?

  I think the the third point of the brush that they painted with was that the words counter espionage and treason, I believe it was treason or a word like that. Okay, that's what was said to me by an official in Odi and I, who told me gossiping, spilling the tea about what you said in a private skiff meeting where you were supposed to go in to be protected as a whistleblower. Will you address those three things right now?

• 54:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, uh, so obviously I am not an anti Semite, I'm not a Jew hater. I grew up in elementary school with a large Jewish cohort in it. We, I don't remember it anymore, but we had to learn Hebrew at the time. We celebrated Hanukkah.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Since then, you know,

• 55:12Speaker 02

  this is just so ridiculous.

• 55:13Jeremy Corbell?

  So the guy lied to me?

• 55:14Speaker 02

  Absolutely, and I mean, yes, I, the day that I heard the news, you just can't, you can't beat fate or, um, yeah, I'm at my dear friend's wedding and it's a Jewish wedding.

• 55:27Jeremy Corbell?

  The day I told you.

• 55:28Speaker 02

  Yes, the day you told me, I'm there celebrating and it's Jewish families.

• 55:31Jeremy Corbell?

  I was never told that I can't tell you what you supposedly said in a skiff to Odi and I, so I feel fine that I, George, I was never told I can't tell him that.

• 55:41Speaker 02

  And then the last thing that just makes it really ridiculous is my family has Jewish blood in it. We've confirmed it through DNA testing.

• 55:49Jeremy Corbell?

  So you're a self-hating Jew?

• 55:52Speaker 02

  The very definition, right? Yeah, so it's, um, I was actually shocked that was the tack they took.

• 55:58Jeremy Corbell?

  Right.

• 55:59Speaker 02

  I thought they would try to discredit just the information about that, about October 7th, but no, they tried to discredit me.

• 56:05Jeremy Corbell?

  I need a beer, I'm sorry, because you know, the next, can I give you guys a beer?

• 56:09Speaker 02

  I'll take one.

• 56:09Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay, that's for you, it's called a bad ombre. This is mine and George's, um, I just, I hate the beer, I love the can.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  It's good.

• 56:16Jeremy Corbell?

  Um, bad ombre.

• 56:18Speaker 02

  Not a sponsor of Weaponized.

• 56:19Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay, check it out.

• 56:22Jeremy Corbell?

  That's crazy, man, because what I'm thinking is, if that doesn't work, what's the opposite of that? And that's what Odi and I will try to do, because, but, but, but, let me just, I'm gonna just say it, so.

• 56:34Jeremy Corbell?

  I know what the agenda of the UFO arm of the DIG was to do underneath Tulsi Gabbard's nose, directed by, directed by the CIA indirectly, sure. But I know for sure, and I know as a fact what they were to do was to discredit you, Dylan, Lu Elizondo, David Grush, huge target, didn't fall for it. Uh huh. Us. Oh, no, I'm not sure it was to discredit us. It was for us to do the dirty work for them,

• 57:16Jeremy Corbell?

  to mistrust the words told to us by the people I've listed, including now Jay Stratten, Eric Davis, Hal Putoff. Can I go on? Jim Lekatsky. Jim Lekats, James Lekatsky, Dr. James Lekatsky, Dr. Calum Kelleher. Like, like, it's just, that was the agenda. But let me just one level deeper. The true intent of the UFO DIG project under Tulsi, which is not Tulsi's fault, and she's wise as fuck, is that they wanted to stand up an operation to influence Congress to put down the bone on UFOs by saying, everybody that's ever stood up there, including Commander David Fravor,

• 57:57Jeremy Corbell?

  Senior Chief Wiggins, everybody, that that was, that they wanted to drop the bone and not, and they had an influence campaign set.

• 58:07Speaker 02

  That is an intelligence operation being run by the US intelligence community against the US Congress. I can't think of anything more illegal.

• 58:15Jeremy Corbell?

  So that is right, and I can prove it. Okay, so I get it, their attack was gonna be, you're an anti-Semite or something stupid. Okay, so low level bullshit. So now.

• 58:27Speaker 02

  And they're not really reading the room very well.

• 58:28Jeremy Corbell?

  They're not reading the room. They didn't look at your DNA. They didn't look at when I called you. They didn't look at you, you bring in, they're fucking idiots. Okay, so now, so here's the next thing, that you completely made up the Immaculate Constellation original briefing, you call it, that you saw that it was never there, and in fact, oh, when Matt Brown found out that we have a perfect digital memory of what survives when on servers, oh, that Matt, like, deflated? Is that what happened, Matt?

• 58:57Speaker 02

  No, not at all.

• 58:58Jeremy Corbell?

  What did happen?

• 58:59Speaker 02

  So I was asked specifically to walk through step by step my discovery of the Immaculate Constellation briefing, uh, which occurred when I was a contractor for OSD policy. And I did so, just like I recited on Weaponized, um, because it's a boring story at this point. And so I will just say it in three sentences.

• 59:21Speaker 02

  I was doing volunteer duty to clean a top secret SCI, uh, share drive. And by clean means to organize the files that through the course of business, just get left and scattered everywhere.

• 59:33Speaker 02

  The 2018 Shriver War Game file stood out in no way. I just opened it to figure out where it should be categorized. Um, and that file is the Immaculate Constellation briefing document.

• 59:48Speaker 02

  And then, yeah, I described the process of reporting or attempting to report it, just like I laid out on the show. You can go watch it.

• 59:55Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, watch the first episode of Weaponized.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  So, I mean, nothing changed in that room, uh, at all, except that in, from them, they said, okay, that makes sense. And then to you, they're saying that I made it up and that I am cringing when they're talking about a digital record.

• 1:00:10Jeremy Corbell?

  Deflating. So did you make up that you saw the?

• 1:00:13Speaker 02

  Not at all.

• 1:00:14Jeremy Corbell?

  Right. So you saw the report?

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  Uh, it is a briefing. It is a briefing.

• 1:00:18Jeremy Corbell?

  My word. You saw the briefing. Okay.

• 1:00:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:00:20Jeremy Corbell?

  Cool. Good. It's on the record now. What was the third thing that they told me that we're going to tell you? That you were running a counterintelligence operation? It was basically espionage from the American government. Why would they tell me that? And tell me the truth.

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that comes from the very end of our conversation. Um, we're getting up to leave the room. Cutting it short, actually, I was told it'd be a four to six hour day. We're there, less than that.

• 1:00:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I get up from the room and I say, you know, I don't know why I'm telling you this, but that Immaculate Constellation report, you know, that was an op. That was an operation. And that operation is why I have so much confidence that what I wrote down is true. Because I vetted that information against, you know, people who would know. And, you know, maybe next time when we're talking, we can talk about, you know, some of the people who I found out were lying. By

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  coordinating my report.

• 1:01:16Jeremy Corbell?

  Who was lying?

• 1:01:18Jeremy Corbell?

  Say their names or don't.

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  I don't want to say that here.

• 1:01:20Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. There also won't be names that people would know.

• 1:01:25Jeremy Corbell?

  Interesting. Okay. So because the world's going to go crazy. Who was he about to say? There'd be names that people wouldn't know.

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:01:31Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay. So good. Don't tell me. Go.

• 1:01:35Speaker 02

  So, you know, a spicy thing to say, but it's, you know, it's a key part and it's part of the process of that report.

• 1:01:45Speaker 02

  So I'll lay it out for you exactly what that is. If they didn't come back and ask, yeah. So what it is, is, uh, you know, to go back in time, I became a whistleblower, not with a report. I went into sissy, uh, entirely verbal testimony. And, you know, people can look back at the history of, you know, the outcomes from that. And then the genesis of, okay. You know, you're saying that you didn't write down what I told you, that you didn't take notes, that you didn't share your information with SASK, HASK, HIPSI. I'm going to write a report. When you give it to you, it's going to be your problem. So that is when the field report first starts getting drafted. What am I writing that field report about? Well, what are the questions of the day?

• 1:02:27Speaker 02

  It's the fact of UAP. It's the credibility of Mr. Elizondo. And it's just the general deny blanket denial inside the national security enterprise of this, uh, of the UAP issue is, is being real. So the report addresses all of those points. It doesn't address everything I know or everything I talked about with Sissy or SASK.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  And I'm a very conscientious person about my sourcing.

• 1:02:54Jeremy Corbell?

  Uh, yes, you are.

• 1:02:55Speaker 02

  With that, and so, you know, I'm putting something forward, not just from me, but it's theoretically going to Congress to drive an investigation in action.

• 1:03:05Jeremy Corbell?

  That's what you wanted. You wanted, you wanted action on what you found.

• 1:03:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:03:11Jeremy Corbell?

  Corruption, deception, lies, malfeasance, is that a word?

• 1:03:16Speaker 02

  Malfeasance.

• 1:03:17Jeremy Corbell?

  Harm.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Beasons.

• 1:03:18Jeremy Corbell?

  Harmed unto people. Harmed unto people.

• 1:03:21Speaker 02

  Okay, and so, you know, there's seven categories of evidence in the report. The first one is the briefing, uh, and then when we get to the end, you know, that says sensitive sources, uh, from mouth to ear.

• 1:03:35Jeremy Corbell?

  What the fuck did that mean?

• 1:03:36Speaker 02

  That is an indication of the level of secrecy. Those are, that is, those are, those are humans behind that information.

• 1:03:43Jeremy Corbell?

  Human intelligence, humans.

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:03:45Jeremy Corbell?

  Have you published that information publicly?

• 1:03:48Speaker 02

  No, and I didn't even write it down. I compiled what I had learned into bullet points. That way the information was aggregated and not being sourced to in a single individual.

• 1:03:58Jeremy Corbell?

  Can we publish that now for the world to see in some way?

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:04:02Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay, ah, I had to try.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  No, um, it's human lives.

• 1:04:09Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay.

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  Uh, and end of the day, it is supporting evidence, right? That is a document, seven bodies of evidence, supporting one conclusion, UAP are real.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  I'm not going to burn people's names that are good people.

• 1:04:29Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:30Speaker 02

  Uh, just to satisfy curiosity.

• 1:04:31Jeremy Corbell?

  You did say, though, that you had access to a conversation between Sean Kirkpatrick and Rubio. Now, the question online has been, how did you get access to a document, a written document, about Rubio's private, who is now Rubio's like a big boss? So how did you get access when he was a senator to the information? Cause you're not in a position to have that, bro. So how did you get, um, the access to the information? If it's true, and you're saying it is true, that Rubio and Kirkpatrick were in a room, and you said it, it ran my blood cold. I think in the last episode, you said that. I'm not gonna ask you how you got access. How can you let me know? And George know, and the world know?

• 1:05:16Jeremy Corbell?

  That that is accurate information. What is the way you can do that?

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  You can FOIA the records of Ronald Moultrie from OUSD Intelligence and Security.

• 1:05:28Jeremy Corbell?

  Thank you.

• 1:05:28Speaker 02

  He was the guy at the first hearing.

• 1:05:30Jeremy Corbell?

  Correct.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  Who didn't know anything.

• 1:05:33Jeremy Corbell?

  Correct.

• 1:05:35Jeremy Corbell?

  Maybe Ice Dick could do that for us.

• 1:05:38Speaker 02

  But to to to finish the immaculate con is a con.

• 1:05:43Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay.

• 1:05:44Speaker 02

  Line of reasoning, so that document was circulated to very trusted people. Some of them turned out to not be trustworthy. And, you know, that is a vetting process of the information and ensuring that the conclusions that I'm putting forward to Congress on record, on the pain of my freedom and death, that it's true.

• 1:06:07Jeremy Corbell?

  You did it right and you stood your cause.

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  It is an operation, is an operation to verify truth and bring truth to Congress. I would have explained all of that gladly.

• 1:06:18Speaker 02

  But, you know, I said, I don't know why I'm telling you this.

• 1:06:22Speaker 03

  Name redacted.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  I'm telling him this as we leave a room that is most likely recorded. I'm telling him this in hallways.

• 1:06:28Jeremy Corbell?

  Oh, it was recorded.

• 1:06:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:30Jeremy Corbell?

  Your skiff meeting with.

• 1:06:31Speaker 03

  Name redacted.

• 1:06:33Jeremy Corbell?

  I'm sure of it.

• 1:06:34Speaker 02

  The point that I'm getting at is this

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  tidbit of information, the Israel information. And a third thing we'll get to, all were given to

• 1:06:46Speaker 03

  Name redacted.

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  To see what he would do. If this is a good faith effort, this information will be treated respectfully and it will be used to conduct an unlawful investigation. If it is not a good faith effort, well, this information is very damning to me personally, but it's not to the country.

• 1:07:03Jeremy Corbell?

  So you're testing ODNI's, not their fault, their agenda.

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  Their loyalty.

• 1:07:08Jeremy Corbell?

  Their loyalty to America?

• 1:07:10Speaker 02

  Yes, to the Constitution.

• 1:07:12Jeremy Corbell?

  To the Constitution.

• 1:07:13Speaker 02

  Right. The third thing that we talked about, that I brought there of my concerns, was

• 1:07:21Speaker 02

  Whistleblowers and their treatment since coming forward in public, specifically how there have been coordinated online attacks against myself, Tony Borland, David Grush, Lou Elizondo, Jeff Mizzatelli. I think Alex escaped, but you know, the point is, is it's systematic and it's ongoing to this day. We have identified the main players and found that they are active duty service members or reserve service members with active clearances, doing this on their work time from work computers.

• 1:07:55Jeremy Corbell?

  That's right.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  And that this network of shit talkers is directly traced back to legacy program security. And that legacy program security is actively running disinformation operations and psychological operations against UAP whistleblowers, their friends and their family. Worse than that, they are taking human intelligence methods and applying them to us in order to disrupt our lives and basically to drive us to either commit suicide or become so ostracized from our friends and family that we are no longer a threat. Specifically, they are sending office of special investigations agents to people's families to break apart their families, to break apart marriages,

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  to this day to pull children away from their parents. And these are not the parents, uh, these are not parents who are whistleblowers. They are people who have helped us. It's completely unacceptable. I took some of that evidence there and brought it up. And in fact, I took more than just screenshots and posts and information about low level players. We found one of the, one of the key players in the legacy security architecture lately or currently at Northrop Crimmins. And his name is-

• 1:09:15Speaker 03

  Name redacted.

• 1:09:16Jeremy Corbell?

  Show us a photo of that.

• 1:09:17Speaker 02

  I have it right here.

• 1:09:19Jeremy Corbell?

  I know you do.

• 1:09:21Speaker 02

  Before we look at this photo, not only that, you could prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt in the court of law. And if anything were to happen to you or anybody, then it'll all be put out anyway. Yes, and it's not just me.

• 1:09:37Jeremy Corbell?

  Yes.

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  You know, in my last interview, I said that it's been a long, hard road to find allies. Have them now, and I do. And hmm. We are done taking punches and not punching back. Name redacted. Is responsible.

• 1:09:54Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay, so

• 1:09:57Jeremy Corbell?

  has been responsible for a lot of what you're talking about. Current day.

• 1:10:03Speaker 02

  Current day as it relates to the UAP problem. He is a nexus point for legacy security. He's part of the dirty tricks department. People bring names that need to be handled to this individual. This person looks at those names, matches it to the capabilities to go achieve XYZ objectives. And then the result is an ecosystem flooded with disinformation and psychological operations and targeted attacks against whistleblowers and their allies.

• 1:10:26Jeremy Corbell?

  How do you know?

• 1:10:29Speaker 02

  So I cannot reveal everything about this because I am communicating it for others.

• 1:10:37Jeremy Corbell?

  And where, what is his current role in government, if any?

• 1:10:41Speaker 02

  No role in government, but in the military industrial complex. He is most recently at Northrup Grumman.

• 1:10:50Speaker 02

  And the little title he has here that people might find interesting is a deputy SAPCO for DARPA.

• 1:11:00Jeremy Corbell?

  Wait, what does SAPCO mean? And are you sure this is a photo of him?

• 1:11:06Speaker 02

  I'm 100% sure. And, you know, we have a career history outside of this one appointment in 2009.

• 1:11:13Jeremy Corbell?

  What does that mean?

• 1:11:14Speaker 02

  It means that Name redacted. Has been exposed. We have mapped him, his history and his network and the people that he knows. He is done. He is off the board.

• 1:11:25Jeremy Corbell?

  Off the chessboard.

• 1:11:26Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:11:27Jeremy Corbell?

  You mean right now because we're showing his face?

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Now publicly, but I brought that information to OD and I specifically to let them know that I knew who he was.

• 1:11:35Jeremy Corbell?

  You showed OD and I this photo?

• 1:11:37Speaker 02

  Yes, I, well, sorry, I sent them this photo.

• 1:11:39Jeremy Corbell?

  How did they respond? And when you're saying you sent OD and I, you said it primarily

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  Name redacted. With other documents on Signal. Yeah, that document and other documents.

• 1:11:50Jeremy Corbell?

  How did he respond?

• 1:11:52Speaker 02

  No response.

• 1:11:53Jeremy Corbell?

  Zero.

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  To anything that I gave them.

• 1:11:55Jeremy Corbell?

  It's funny, there's no response to Dylan about, um, you know, wanting to check what Dylan told him in that skiff to double check that it wasn't tampered with. And, and there's no, there has been no responses, but a government shutdown was a reason that was told to Dylan that he couldn't come back in to verify and, and, and, you know, what he said. But you went in during the government shutdown, so that doesn't make sense to me.

• 1:12:23Speaker 02

  It's a bullshit excuse.

• 1:12:24Jeremy Corbell?

  It is.

• 1:12:26George Knapp?

  Both pre, uh, submitting the statement to Congress and after, has there been surveillance of you, your house, your wife, your home, your phones? Anything like that that you picked up on?

• 1:12:39Speaker 02

  So I, I said as much before, yes, nothing I can ever prove and that hasn't changed. Um, I still have, uh, you know,

• 1:12:50Speaker 02

  inboxes that people shouldn't be aware of, receiving messages with attachments from junk emails. Um, I still have, you know, strange occurrences in terms of people walking by my house multiple times and just doing nothing and looking around.

• 1:13:06Jeremy Corbell?

  Somebody broke into your house and laid your wife's IDs out and as if they're filming them and they took your grandfather's ashes and smashed them as a trash can.

• 1:13:14Speaker 02

  Sorry, I was, I was talking about since, uh, the weapon.

• 1:13:15Jeremy Corbell?

  No, but I, you gotta talk about that in the last episode, did we reveal that?

• 1:13:19George Knapp?

  I think we did.

• 1:13:20Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah. Okay, so doesn't, doesn't it be hurt to tell it again?

• 1:13:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:23Jeremy Corbell?

  Right, so I'm just saying, I know, because I have been the recipient of photographs of both you and other people where X's were painted on your sidewalk.

• 1:13:33Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:13:33Jeremy Corbell?

  And so that seems like a crazy thing to say, except for the fact that it happened to multiple whistleblowers. That we were preparing, George and I were preparing to be able to talk in front of Congress. So it's, it's really a fucked up game.

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  I did not know that the X thing had happened to others.

• 1:13:50Jeremy Corbell?

  We'll talk about that later.

• 1:13:51Speaker 02

  But, um, yeah, it is a fucked up game. We are Americans doing what is best for our country.

• 1:13:58Jeremy Corbell?

  And are we?

• 1:14:00Speaker 02

  We, yes, you and I and George, everyone here is doing what is best for our country, a hundred percent.

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  You know, just to get to the end of it, of this very unfortunate man and meeting.

• 1:14:15Speaker 03

  Name redacted.

• 1:14:17Speaker 02

  He asked me at the end of the meeting, you know, wrapping up here, is there anything you want to say to Tulsi Gabbard? You know, is there anything you want to tell her? And I thought about it and I said, you know, yes, there is. And that is that there are traitors in your midst. We have been infiltrated and subverted from the inside by treasonous people who do not serve the interests of the United States government. They do not respect the constitutional rule of law and they do not respect human life. They only respect power and gain. I told, told them that. I stand by it today. Traitors are in our midst. They are in the highest echelons of our intelligence community, our military. They are working right now against the interests of this country and its citizens.

• 1:14:59Speaker 03

  Name redacted.

• 1:15:01Speaker 02

  Tusk is one of them. So one thing I have to add is that while I can't confirm or share, you know, the means by which we identified

• 1:15:10Speaker 03

  Name redacted.

• 1:15:11Speaker 02

  and verified his information. I can share that I personally went and vetted that information with people who would know his position and also people who wouldn't know. And the people who wouldn't know confirmed that I have no idea who that is. So that's very good for me to know that they're not going to pretend that they know someone just to be of value to me. And then the people who should have known did admit that they knew who it was, confirming to me that they are still trustworthy to me. So I'm very certain

• 1:15:43Speaker 03

  Name redacted.

• 1:15:45Speaker 02

  is a nexus point for the dirty tricks department of legacy, most recently in Northrop Crumlin.

• 1:15:52Speaker 02

  And that he is personally responsible for leading the activities against UAP whistleblowers.

• 1:16:01George Knapp?

  Couple of days ago, at the time we're recording this, President Trump, in responding to comments made by the former President Barack Obama, did some sort of one-upsmanship in which he said, look, I'm going to get to the bottom of this. I want every, he issues this directive. I want every federal agency to look through their files. Anything related to UFOs, UAP, USOs, aliens, ETs, find those files and come forward with it. Are you encouraged by that at all? Do you think it will result in any kind of meaningful information that comes forward that hasn't been made public before?

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  So I am grateful that people in positions of power, or who held positions of power, are acknowledging some degree of the reality of this, even if they are using terminology that lets them weasel their way out of being a Weasel words, as George says. But will this initiative result in disclosure and justice? I have very little confidence in that. And that is not because of any specific things I've heard about the Trump White House attitude towards disclosure or UAP. It is informed directly by their handling of the Epstein file release,

• 1:17:18Speaker 02

  the ongoing dog's dinner they have made of it, and the disinformation that they are spreading to obscure the wrongdoings that are contained in there. And let's be very clear. The lawfully demanded files that are supposed to be released are not. This is a constitutional crisis. The executive is directly contravening the will of the legislative branch.

• 1:17:46Speaker 02

  Are we just going to lie down and let this injustice be swept under the rug?

• 1:17:56Speaker 02

  Or will we say enough is enough? If we will not say enough is enough to the enslavement and rape of our children,

• 1:18:08Speaker 02

  how can we hope to do the same for UAP? So far, we are not meeting the challenge that's been put before our country by the Epstein files. I think that is a bad sign of what is to come if disclosure is pursued in this administration.

• 1:18:27Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up require compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 1:18:52Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 1:19:22George Knapp?

  There's some practical considerations here, too. I mean, a directive as opposed to an executive order. What authority does it have? The records we're talking about would need to be declassified before they can be.

• 1:19:34Speaker 02

  It is nonsense. Completely. According to President Trump, he can declassify anything just by thinking about it. There is nothing stopping him from going today on front of a camera and sharing everything he has been officially informed in his two terms as President of the United States of America.

• 1:19:53Speaker 02

  There is no procedure that needs to be followed other than what we decide is appropriate.

• 1:20:02Jeremy Corbell?

  I got an admission to me. I don't know if we can air this shit. But um, so why I have a little bit of hope that people are so scared about what Trump might do, that we're moving in a cool direction is um, I had a scheduled conversation with um, I'll say a comms, a heavyweight from the comms department of Department of War, underneath the Department of War, uh, from the Pentagon. And uh, that was like for like the day before the presidential address State of the Union. And I got a call the day prior to that scheduled meeting. And it said, um,

• 1:20:47Jeremy Corbell?

  Emergency. And I go, well, me and George can't hop on the phone, so you better FaceTime me right now. Got a FaceTime in my car, right, like waiting to go into a thing for my mom's birthday. And um, there was a me, here's what I can say. There was a meeting that occurred at nine AM DC time. The day before, I believe, the day before the State of the Union. And they wanted to know my and George's opinion from a comms perspective. If there was gonna be, say, about seven different agencies, including Arrow. Including ODNI. Including other alphabet soup agencies and and groups.

• 1:21:29Jeremy Corbell?

  And they wanted to get, so let's say somebody wanted to be the most informed person in the room. So I was like, okay, cool. Here's what George and I would say, because weirdly enough, I wrote down these four steps that need to occur for disclosure. And I identified what the first step might be, and I I think George might agree with me. He's probably got a smarter version, but this is what I got. But here's the deal. You have a problem. And they go, what's the problem? And I go, while you're in that meeting, I'm going on international news with a someone from Britain. Pierce Morgan. And at the end, I'm gonna verbatim say these four things, and then the one thing you should do first. And I was like, so if you use my words. My exact words, then you better admit you know George motherfucking Knapp and me.

• 1:22:14Jeremy Corbell?

  Because it's gonna look weird when you get out of that meeting. Now, we probably can't air this, but I I just want you to know why I'm optimistic. Is because they had seven agencies and organizations. All their comms people met at nine AM in DC, I believe, the day before the State of the Union. Because they didn't know if, I think, I'm reading into this, but they didn't know if Trump was gonna say the word UFO, alien, or NHI. Now, I hear he didn't, but I've um, rejected the news for over a week. So, am I wrong for having, I'm gonna ask you. Am I wrong for having um, enthusiasm that the fact they're scrambling and coming to you and me for words?

• 1:22:58Jeremy Corbell?

  Am I wrong to be enthusiastic?

• 1:23:00George Knapp?

  I don't think you're wrong for having at least some optimism about it.

• 1:23:03Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:04George Knapp?

  As a news guy, I think it is a big story just for the president and the former president to be mentioning the words UFOs and aliens. Just saying it gives a certain amount of credibility to people who've brushed this off, you know, just by itself, even if nothing ever comes from Trump's directive. I think that was a positive thing. I think it would be overly optimistic to assume that it's going to amount to anything. I think because Trump has issued this directive, they're gonna have to come up with something. These federal agencies have got to come up with.

• 1:23:36Jeremy Corbell?

  Like more shredding machines?

• 1:23:38George Knapp?

  I'm thinking about some kind of document that has not been made public before, just to save face, just to throw a bone to their president.

• 1:23:45Jeremy Corbell?

  Because Luna and Burchett and Burleson are saying, oh, Luna did this gangster tweet. I don't know if you guys saw it on X. She's like, can't wait to see the videos and all the documents and review them. Was she pressing when she said that?

• 1:24:00George Knapp?

  Maybe.

• 1:24:01Jeremy Corbell?

  Promise that.

• 1:24:01George Knapp?

  Maybe she's establishing a baseline, hey, we expect to get at least this.

• 1:24:05Jeremy Corbell?

  I fucking love her.

• 1:24:06George Knapp?

  Yeah, I know. Me, I thought the same thing. She took up, she took advantage of the opportunity of the moment and said, hey, I look forward to seeing this. Meaning you gotta at least give us something, which is positive. I think the chances of them giving the really good stuff are, it's infinitesimal.

• 1:24:23Jeremy Corbell?

  But you always say that.

• 1:24:24George Knapp?

  The same people have have held this stuff up, have been the keepers of the secrets for all these decades. You think they're gonna cough it up?

• 1:24:31Jeremy Corbell?

  But you always say that. And then you testified in Congress and then we've had private meetings in SKIFs and then we're contacted by comms people and agencies. And then that footage ends up coming out anyway, with or without them. So why are you not optimistic?

• 1:24:43George Knapp?

  I'm optimistic that we will continue to come up with information that has not been made public by anybody else. I am not optimistic that they will suddenly cough it up. We get it because we work at it. They're not offering that stuff to us.

• 1:24:57Jeremy Corbell?

  But we don't need them to offer it.

• 1:24:59George Knapp?

  Well, you just asking me, am I optimistic? This leads to something from the government, you know.

• 1:25:03Jeremy Corbell?

  Well, they have to respond to us.

• 1:25:07Jeremy Corbell?

  They have to respond to Matt. They have to respond to Dylan. They have to respond to Chief Senior Wiggins. They have to respond to Commander David Fravor. That's the son of David Rush.

• 1:25:14George Knapp?

  Susan Goh, she responded to Immaculate Constellation. Yeah, we don't see it. We can't find it. Sorry.

• 1:25:21Jeremy Corbell?

  Bad person, guys. I feel so bad whenever I talk shit about her. Like, Susan, I'm sorry. You're probably just doing your job.

• 1:25:28George Knapp?

  Call her Sue.

• 1:25:29Jeremy Corbell?

  Sue, I'm sorry. You're probably just doing your job. Like, that's the excuse of it. They're doing their job. Is she a bad person? Like, I think people are just doing their job. They're told, like, okay, for example, Jay Stratton told her, be honest about what Jeremy and George released. He told me that. I think I could say that. And she did. And she said, yes, those are military film UAP.

• 1:25:49George Knapp?

  And it lasted that long.

• 1:25:51Jeremy Corbell?

  But she did it.

• 1:25:51George Knapp?

  Yeah, and when Jay was gone, she didn't do it again.

• 1:25:54Jeremy Corbell?

  Right, but is that because she's a bad person? Or is that because she's being told?

• 1:25:59George Knapp?

  Yeah, I think she's following orders.

• 1:26:01Jeremy Corbell?

  Right, so that's fine. That's fine. Or maybe it's not fine.

• 1:26:04Speaker 02

  I don't think it is fine.

• 1:26:05Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay.

• 1:26:06Speaker 02

  Think being a careerist when it comes to questions of national security is the incorrect mindset. You can resign from any job.

• 1:26:17Jeremy Corbell?

  You did? Yeah, okay, I understood. Go ahead.

• 1:26:22Speaker 02

  So on the question of is she a bad person or not, or people like her,

• 1:26:28Speaker 02

  it may very well be part of their job. But if your job is evil, then I think you bear the moral weight of participating in a evil.

• 1:26:37George Knapp?

  Name redacted.

• 1:26:38Jeremy Corbell?

  Is evil?

• 1:26:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:26:40Jeremy Corbell?

  Yes, that I know for sure.

• 1:26:42Speaker 02

  I know that from firsthand experience now.

• 1:26:45Jeremy Corbell?

  I'm sorry, bro, but...

• 1:26:49Speaker 02

  On that subject, there was one other thing to relay that I also relayed to.

• 1:26:54George Knapp?

  Name redacted.

• 1:26:56Speaker 02

  Is something I gave to Sissy and Sask and talked about on Weaponized. And that was, you know, additional information. And that additional information was a list of 42 names associated with the Legacy Program. I provided that to.

• 1:27:13George Knapp?

  Name redacted.

• 1:27:16Speaker 02

  You know, 42 names, that's a lot of names, you know. Most of those names are individuals. Some of them are companies. Some include, and most of them are companies people have never heard of.

• 1:27:28Speaker 02

  There's a lot of network mapping to do with 42 names. There's a lot of information that has been generated.

• 1:27:35Speaker 02

  This doesn't stop till it is over and the people have won. We are not waiting for the government to give us documents anymore.

• 1:27:45Jeremy Corbell?

  What do you mean exactly by that? Is that a threat? What are you saying? What do you mean?

• 1:27:48Speaker 02

  It is a legal threat because legally, what recourse do American citizens have to correct the actions of their government when it is no longer responsive to them? Well, we have relied on the executive branch to be the truth teller and the arbiter of what is or is not secret for far too long. It is clear that whatever truth comes out of any disclosure process is going to be biased and swayed for advantage.

• 1:28:18Speaker 02

  The legislative branch is at an impasse. There is not enough political capital to move disclosure forward in a legislative way that will result in real world outcomes. So that leaves us one last branch of government, and that is the judicial branch to pursue.

• 1:28:34Speaker 02

  You know, people like being in the shadows and we don't need to win every court case to take this apart.

• 1:28:42Jeremy Corbell?

  And you're gonna win. So hold on, are we in the shadows today? Are we in the sunlight today?

• 1:28:48Speaker 02

  Right, beautiful California sun.

• 1:28:50Jeremy Corbell?

  George, I've got a question for you.

• 1:28:51George Knapp?

  I'm saying it.

• 1:28:52Jeremy Corbell?

  I'm sorry, I've got a question for you. Son, okay, listen, we have a weird soundtrack for Weaponized, there's music all around us, but this is real life, so you're experiencing real life, so fuck off. Check this out, George. I've got a question, can you answer me? What if, what if people in Congress through presidential order

• 1:29:14Jeremy Corbell?

  were given authority to go to specific, like you sent somebody to Papoose Lake back in the early 90s to go look at Papoose Lake, see if Baba Zara's on the tree. What if people today got that authority, presidential authority to do it? Would you be optimistic?

• 1:29:33George Knapp?

  I am optimistic that whatever is at those locations will be moved by the time that, say, congressman gets there to look around.

• 1:29:40Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay, but what if you could defend against that by informing, by having many sources of information to defend against that, would you be more optimistic?

• 1:29:53George Knapp?

  Yeah, of course. Yeah, it'd be great. I hope something comes from it. We know what we're talking about here.

• 1:29:58Jeremy Corbell?

  I just want you to say that you're optimistic, George.

• 1:30:04Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay, I'll take that. I'll take that.

• 1:30:06George Knapp?

  I know. Hopeful is more a better word than optimistic.

• 1:30:10Jeremy Corbell?

  Hopeful. I'm hopeful it leads to something.

• 1:30:12George Knapp?

  I am doubtful that it does.

• 1:30:14Jeremy Corbell?

  But I just heard the first part, you're hopeful.

• 1:30:16George Knapp?

  A little tiny bit of hopefulness. It'd be like cream in the coffee.

• 1:30:20Jeremy Corbell?

  You don't use cream.

• 1:30:21George Knapp?

  But it's a great big.

• 1:30:24Jeremy Corbell?

  Giant carafe of coffee? Like really good, like Michael, like Michael Azowski's coffee, like something like that?

• 1:30:31George Knapp?

  Something like that. You know, and then a little spice for it, too.

• 1:30:34Jeremy Corbell?

  Oh, a little spice. Look, Matt, I don't know how to end this, man, because it's not ending. So I just want to say, um, thank you.

• 1:30:48Jeremy Corbell?

  And the fight is not over.

• 1:30:52Jeremy Corbell?

  But I hope that the public, not awkwardly, gets behind you with whatever you need to continue, because I want you to continue. Don't stop, no matter what it takes.

• 1:31:06George Knapp?

  Let me ask you this. I know then, from private conversations we've had, that you've been discussing sort of an initiative that you and maybe a couple of your compadres are working on. Can you talk about that now?

• 1:31:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, so.

• 1:31:20Jeremy Corbell?

  This is coming on next week.

• 1:31:23Speaker 02

  Based on, you know, our experience, Dylan Borland and I have started a nonprofit to do disclosure by the people for the people. It is, you know, using UAP whistleblowers from a national security enterprise to pursue disclosure through the justice system. We are creating an organization specifically to wage lawfare, to.

• 1:31:52Jeremy Corbell?

  Light our system.

• 1:31:53Speaker 02

  Lawfare? Lawfare, to light our system on fire with court cases related to disclosure, to make a huge fucking problem. In addition to that, we will be looking after whistleblowers. I have experienced, outside of, you know, personal support from friends and family, absolutely no assistance on the outside. There is no organized help for UAP whistleblowers, whether that be from Congress or from private initiatives.

• 1:32:26Speaker 02

  We are quite frankly being picked off to be either exploited for financial or technical gain, or to be removed from being agents of influence for the cause of disclosure.

• 1:32:38Jeremy Corbell?

  So are you doing this for personal gain, not, because that's what everybody on the interweb is gonna say. Are you doing this for personal gain? Tell me.

• 1:32:45Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:32:46Jeremy Corbell?

  Why?

• 1:32:48Speaker 02

  Because this is our home, and if we do not defend it, who will?

• 1:32:53Jeremy Corbell?

  We live here.

• 1:32:54Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:32:54Jeremy Corbell?

  The planet Earth or America?

• 1:32:56Speaker 02

  America.

• 1:32:59Speaker 02

  I'm not sure Earth is our homes anymore.

• 1:33:02Jeremy Corbell?

  I, that's existential. I, look, brother, I, let's just cheers. I'm fucking.

• 1:33:07George Knapp?

  We get more helicopters and more of whatever this is, too.

• 1:33:10Jeremy Corbell?

  We could orchestrate that.

• 1:33:10George Knapp?

  Yeah, because somebody banging on a pot.

• 1:33:13Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay, check it out, Michael. Look right at me. I was at, the first time ever, a Roger Waters concert. It was called Old Chella. That's what I called it. And George Knapp was there with me. And I saw Roger Waters for the first time, and there was helicopter speakers going around as he played a Pink Floyd song. And that's what it's felt like today. So to our listening audience, I hope this is in fucking surround sound.

• 1:33:37George Knapp?

  There's somebody with a garbage can over there going bang, bang, bang.

• 1:33:40Jeremy Corbell?

  Why?

• 1:33:41George Knapp?

  Well, before, did you hear it, Michael? They were saying, hey, hey, calling out to us. Can we talk to you? Did you hear it?

• 1:33:48Jeremy Corbell?

  We're in public. And the thing is, is like, that's the point, is that no more fucking dancing around and tiptoeing like little, you know, ballerina. No more dancing around like a, like, like, like a marionette in the sun, full light. We're saying it as it is. And that's the end of it. And if you don't understand, you haven't been listening.

• 1:34:11Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:34:11Jeremy Corbell?

  Let's fucking go.

• 1:34:13Speaker 02

  Daylight is the best disinfectant. Our political class likes to tell us. We're gonna bring a whole bunch of it to this entire rotten structure.

• 1:34:22Jeremy Corbell?

  Funny story. Bob Lazar knows that to be true, because during COVID, he gave me a laser gun, and he gave Georgia disinfected light. I got the cooler gift. Alright brother cheers, let's cheers with a bad hombre, hold on, hold on, hold on. This is, this is for George motherfucking Knapp. That is his official legal name, they'll say it's a different name, his middle name? It's not, it's motherfucking. Here we go, cheers you guys. Cheers.