Trail Tales 64

Today’s stories include check ins from the other side, underwater close calls, man ghosts, cases of mistaken identity, cursed Airbnb’s and bodies in the woods. Outsiders Only bonus stories available for Patreon and Apple Subscribers! For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at:Instagram: @nationalparkafterdarkTwitter/X: @npadpodcastTikTok: @nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to the week’s partners! iRestore: For a limited time only, our listeners get $625 off their iRestore Elite when you use code NPAD at iRestorelaser.comFactor: Use our link and code npad50off to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping. Graza: Take your food to the next level with Graza Olive Oil. Visit https://graza.co/NPAD and use promo code NPAD today for 10% off your first order. Astonishing Legends: Astonishing Legends is available wherever you like to listen to podcasts. For a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:27Speaker 01

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• 1:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hi, everyone. Welcome back to National Park After Dark. We're so excited for another Trail Tales episode. If you're watching, my house is a little cold and I literally have a vest on. I have a blanket on. I have hot tea in my hand and I'm probably the coziest I've ever been for any of our episodes at any point in time.

• 1:35Danielle LaRock?

  You look like you're about to go to bed.

• 1:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  I could, honestly.

• 1:39Danielle LaRock?

  Well, don't because we have to work.

• 1:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, tell me a story as I fall asleep on camera.

• 1:47Danielle LaRock?

  But you also have to tell me stories, so don't fall asleep. But we have two things to mention up top. The first is we just got back from our trip to Colorado and we joined up with a local guiding service there called KMAC. They were absolutely wonderful. We had an amazing time. It was during the Arctic blast, so.

• 2:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh my God, we were so cold.

• 2:11Danielle LaRock?

  It was slightly chilly.

• 2:14Danielle LaRock?

  By slightly, I mean like negative 10 average every day.

• 2:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 2:18Danielle LaRock?

  So our group were troopers. We were out skiing and snow shoeing every single day. But KMAC was awesome. If you're in the area and you're looking for a local guiding service, they do every season hiking, climbing, camping, snow shoeing. They have a via ferrata. They do a bunch of different stuff and their guides are really cool, down to earth, knowledgeable, and a good time. So.

• 2:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 2:42Danielle LaRock?

  If you're in Russia, go there.

• 2:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. If you're in Rocky Mountain National Park and you need someone to show you around and show you where all the good spots are, KMAC is definitely your place to go.

• 2:51Danielle LaRock?

  And the other thing is, we announced it a couple of weeks ago, but we do still have tickets available for our Joshua Tree live show. The camping is sold out, the camp weekend that as a whole is sold out, but we still have some tickets left for just the live show portion of the weekend, which is super exciting. It's at the Joshua Tree Retreat Center, right outside of the park. It's going to be awesome. That's in early May, May 3rd.

• 3:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes, May 3rd. It's going to come up really quick, but it's such a good time to be in Joshua Tree. Like if you want to come see a live show and make a weekend out of it and go check out the park, I mean, May is right before it starts getting really hot. So it's the perfect time to be there and explore. And we're so excited to be there and to have this live show going on. So come hang out with us, come see the show, come check out a national park, check it off your list if you haven't been there yet. It's a good, it's a good time to do it.

• 3:45Danielle LaRock?

  It is. All right, cool. So let's get into our stories. Do you want to be read to or read first?

• 3:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Tell me a story. I'm ready.

• 3:55Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 3:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  You're like, not the answer I wanted, but okay.

• 3:58Danielle LaRock?

  And I'm like, oh, God. Okay.

• 4:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  I wasn't ready. Also, side note, just because I feel like it's important. I went to Death Valley a couple of months ago now. And when I was there, I got a pup fish mug and I specifically picked this one for my tea today. So you guys could all see my Ash Meadows National Wildlife Refuge pup fish mug. And I adopted one, which they never sent me any stuff showing that I adopted one, which it makes me upset, but.

• 4:29Danielle LaRock?

  Did they promise to do that?

• 4:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, they said that they would send me a surprise like gift for adopting. Um, it was in December and now it's February, so maybe it's just hasn't come yet. I'm still holding out hope.

• 4:43Danielle LaRock?

  Maybe it'll take another two months. We'll see.

• 4:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  I thought I would just get like a certificate that said like you adopted a pup fish with like a little picture of a pup fish. That's all I thought it would be, but I did get a mug.

• 4:53Danielle LaRock?

  There's still time.

• 4:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  There's still mug. Yeah.

• 4:55Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, but did you buy that?

• 4:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  I did buy the mug. Yeah, I had.

• 4:59Danielle LaRock?

  Well, we all know. You did it. We don't need a certificate. We believe you.

• 5:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thank you.

• 5:04Danielle LaRock?

  You're welcome. Okay, so my first story is titled Saved by a First Year. When I was seventeen, I was attending my last summer camp in Boy Scouts. Just some context, I am a woman, so I started scouts in two thousand and nineteen when they allowed girls to join the program and I fell in love. I loved scouting, so I was really trying to make this summer camp the best as it would be the last year I would be able to. I was taking all of the aquatic merit badges I didn't yet have. Motor boating, small boat sailing, kayaking and paddle boarding. I live in Florida, so the only way to make summer camp not totally miserable is to stay by or in the water. Luckily, I am a total water bug and was particularly excited about small boat sailing. After day one of safety, they released us into the water,

• 5:48Danielle LaRock?

  but they paired me with a first year scout because there were no other girls in the class. I wanted to live my dreams of lounging gracefully on a sailboat. He wanted to go as fast as possible the whole time. The first day, they had to drag our boat back in because we got too far out and couldn't figure out how to tack. The next day, the instructors showed us capsizing drills and we did those drills a few times. And then we were again released to do whatever. We were going along really fast and the boat flipped. No big deal, we've done this before, but as I start to try to swim away, I realize that I can't. My hair is stuck. I automatically go into full panic. My hair is caught in the sail and as the sail is being pulled under the water, I am going with it.

• 6:30Danielle LaRock?

  I started screaming bloody murder. I was actually in danger of dying. Finally, I see the advanced sailing class in the distance and start screaming, help, help. My lungs are burning from how loud I was screaming and they just sailed in the other direction.

• 6:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  No.

• 6:47Danielle LaRock?

  I kept screaming, but I wasn't screaming for help anymore. It was pure primal terror. I started ripping at my hair, trying to rip it out of my scalp to escape the pull of the boat, which was quickly cancelling out the floating power of my life jacket. Finally, this little boy comes over. He might have been there longer, but in my panic, I didn't realize. And I finally asked him to rip out my hair tie. The weight comes off my scalp and I am free. Once we get back into the boat, I felt my scalp aching. I had been pulling on my hair so hard, I could feel the residual pain for the rest of the day. Thirty minutes later, we're back on shore and I go back up to my campsite to grab something. On my way back, I run into my friend who tells me she heard the craziest story about someone who almost drowned in the small boat sailing.

• 7:31Danielle LaRock?

  Then she describes exactly what happened to me, but in this version of the story, the little boy is the hero. He had been going around telling people, casting himself as the hero, which he kind of was, but as an overly independent seventeen year old trying to prove herself in a male dominated group, it was kind of embarrassing. And the counselor refused to sign off on the merit badge because I refused to get back into the boat after literally almost dying.

• 7:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  What?

• 7:55Danielle LaRock?

  I have not and will not get back into any sailboat ever again. And I'm still mad they didn't give me that merit badge. I know it's petty, but I don't care. I almost died for it.

• 8:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  You did almost die for it. You deserve that merit badge. That's crazy. You almost died for it.

• 8:10Danielle LaRock?

  Well, this story reminds me of, um, a traumatic memory. Well, it's not a traumatic memory. It's a story that has stuck with me forever. When I was in elementary school, we went to the Lowell Mills in Massachusetts, which I think at least part of them is a national historic park now, run by the National Park Service.

• 8:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  I've never been.

• 8:32Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know if it was that particular one we visited, but as people in New England know, there are tons of historic mill buildings that are now like office buildings or apartments or whatever. But anyway, so we went down there. I was a little kid and one of my first field trip memories. And we were taking a tour of the textile mill and how it used to operate and yada, yada. And the tour guide was very graphic about how the young women who used to work there, many of them were children, they had to either shave their heads or put their, have their hair back in a certain way because there were so many instances of women's hair getting caught in the machinery and them getting scalped.

• 9:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh my God, that is horrible.

• 9:15Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 9:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  That that is dangerous workplace conditions for sure. That's horrific.

• 9:20Danielle LaRock?

  I think there had a lot of other awful things going on, but that was just one of them.

• 9:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, that's awful. And also new fear unlocked with this story. I never really thought of my hair getting caught in a sailboat before. I've never been on a sailboat, though, so.

• 9:35Danielle LaRock?

  Really?

• 9:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  I guess.

• 9:36Danielle LaRock?

  I've been on, um, okay, it's not, God, what the heck was it called? Because Ian was really into sailing for a hot second there. And we were on one in Miami. He rented, it wasn't a whole ass sailboat. It was tiny, it was small. It was just like for the two of us, but there was some like machine or I don't know if it's called machinery, but rigging that, I mean, if you got your hair, because you're whip, it's whipping in the wind and yeah. You gotta tie it up, I guess, if you're anywhere near that, because I always think of the little mills now and those poor women who literally had their scalps ripped off. And I'm glad it didn't happen to this person.

• 10:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, that's so scary. That's awful. But I will think of that if I ever decide to go sailing.

• 10:20Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, we'll remember you always.

• 10:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes, for sure. Thank you for your shared trauma.

• 10:28Speaker 04

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• 10:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  My neck, my first story, my next one. My first story is titled Tunnels and Tribulations. Hi, Danielle and Cassie. My name is Phoebe. I'm a relatively new listener, but have been flying through episodes as I bide my time through another winter in Indiana. The first episode I listened to was of Diana the Dunes because of my proximity. But as a native Appalachian, I gravitate most to your stories about the happenings on the AT and the area near where I used to live in. Beautiful western North Carolina. You guys do an awesome job of dissecting mysteries and thinking through all of the possibilities while keeping the storyline flowing. I also love a good trail tale and thought I would submit one of my spookiest outdoor experiences to get my home region on the NPAD map.

• 11:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  During the summer of 2022, I was home visiting my family and playing my classic role of well-intentioned agitator to get my mom and brother out of the house into some sort of adventure. They decided it would be fun to take me biking on a segment of the North Bend Rail Trail about an hour from our house. The full trail runs 72 miles from Parkersburg to Clarksburg, West Virginia, and is built over pre-Civil War train tracks which fell out of use by the 1980s. We hopped on the trail in Ellenboro, West Virginia and rode eight miles, largely through North Bend State Park, to the tiny town of Cairo before riding back. The trail is mostly flat, very shady, and absolutely beautiful.

• 12:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  The part my family was most excited to show me, though, were the old railroad tunnels. On our 16-mile out-and-back trip, we had passed through three of them twice. Two of them were pretty short, such that you could see the light at the other end when you entered, but the other one was long and curved enough that you had to ride for a bit before you could see the other side. Inside, they were all pitch black with damp, exposed rock faces, and they were so creepy. They also played funny tricks with sound. So if someone was approaching the other end, you could hear their voices clear as a bell despite them being over a quarter mile apart. My mission was to enter and exit the tunnels as quickly as possible, and we weren't even going through tunnel number 19,

• 13:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  which is famously haunted by the ghost of a jilted bride who apparently liked to stand in the middle of the old train tracks and ride on the cowcatchers of the trains. One story I read said that you could always tell which train conductors knew the area because they would screech to a halt at the tunnel to avoid hitting the apparition of the bride, while those familiar with the route would barrel on through, knowing they wouldn't be harming a living being. That is quite the risk also.

• 13:34Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, even if I knew the legend very well, I don't know if I would.

• 13:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Barrel through a woman in the middle of the train tracks.

• 13:40Danielle LaRock?

  Right, yeah.

• 13:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Right.

• 13:42Danielle LaRock?

  One would hope no one would do that, but.

• 13:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  As long as it's an apparition, I guess it's okay, but that's a scary, uh, that's a scary risk to take.

• 13:50Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 13:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Needless to say, by the time we coasted back into the parking lot in Ellenboro under a beautiful sunset, I had filled my adventure quota and was ready to head home. Life had other plans, though. As my mother reached for her car keys and realized she had forgotten her small backpack at a gazebo where we had stopped to rest, five miles back up the trail. It took me less than a minute to realize that there was no choice but to go back for my pack on my bike as fast as possible, taking advantage of what was left of the sunset afterglow to see my way. There were no access points between Ellenboro and Cairo we could drive to, and there was no sense in waiting until morning to get help from the state park officials. I took off, pedaling like my life depended on it,

• 14:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  trying to quiet the thoughts in my head about all the ways that this could go sideways. There aren't that many things in the woods of West Virginia that can hurt you, but there are definitely some things, and I was running through the mental rolodex of Appalachian cryptids. Oddly enough, the tunnels were less scary than the open trail because I didn't feel quite as exposed. By the time I reached the gazebo and grabbed the pack, it was completely dark outside with just a tiny bit of light from a sliver of the moon. I only had about 20% battery on my phone, so I turned on the flashlight sparingly to make sure I didn't run into one of the several bargates shut across the trail to prevent vehicle access. I was so scared that I started talking aloud, giving myself a pep talk,

• 15:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  and also asking the powers that be for protection, especially my dad. He passed away in 2019, and ever since then, I have always known that he's looking out for me as much as he can. On this night, I was just begging him to watch out for me as I flew down the trail back towards Ellenboro. After harrowing 10 miles, I finally saw the lights of the parking lot and heard my mom cheering as she watched me close in on Find My Friends. She took a video of me cruising in, and on it, you can clearly see that as soon as I dismount, my phone flashlight. Out as the battery finally dies. Talk about perfect timing. After a celebratory stop at Dairy Queen, we finally got home around 11:00 PM.

• 15:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  But I was way too wired on adrenaline to even think about sleeping. I was just starting to get tired around 2:30 AM when I heard a pounding on our front door. We live in the middle of nowhere, so needless to say, this is pretty much my worst nightmare and got my adrenaline spiked right back up. I grabbed my phone, turned on all the lights in the house and yelled for my mom. When we opened the door, it was the police. They said that they had gotten a 911 hang up call earlier that night that traced to our address. We immediately panicked, thinking that something had happened to my brother, who had driven to Pennsylvania earlier that evening. We asked what number it came from, thinking that maybe one of us had accidentally triggered an emergency call on our phones. When they read the number, we turned and stared at each other.

• 16:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was my dad's old cellphone number that we had deactivated back in March of 2019.

• 16:48Danielle LaRock?

  Chills, chills, chills, everywhere. Oh my god.

• 16:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Maybe it had been reassigned to someone else in the three years since, but wouldn't that have updated the address for the caller? And even if there was some glitch where it hadn't, what are the odds that this new person would have called 911 on the very same night I was putting myself in danger? Our only explanation is that my dad heard me talking to him loud and clear and was looking out for me the best way that he could. I may not have encountered any tunnel ghosts that night, but I definitely got confirmation that they can hear us beyond the veil.

• 17:24Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, I'm not even kidding. I have goosebumps.

• 17:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. What a story. And I mean, we say it all the time, there's no such thing as coincidences. And she had mentioned earlier in the story that she knows her dad is always looking out for her. And to have that happen that night when you were so scared. Definitely a sign from him. Me too.

• 17:44Danielle LaRock?

  Love it.

• 17:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  One of my favorite things about decorating our home is finding furniture that's both functional and beautiful. And Article has been such a great discovery for that. I recently got their Jokana vinyl media unit in walnut and it's such a beautiful piece. Al got me a record player for Christmas last year and I have been searching for the right furniture to put it on and this one is perfect. The walnut finish gives it that classic mid-century modern look that I love and it's practical, but it also feels like this huge statement in our living room now. I was also really impressed with how securely everything was packaged when it arrived. You could tell a lot of care went into making sure the furniture was protected during shipping, which is something that I really appreciate when I'm ordering larger pieces online. Article's furniture is thoughtfully designed with beautiful styles

• 18:34Cassandra Yahnian?

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• 19:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay, my next story is titled Evil Spirit in Airbnb Searching for New Victims.

• 19:28Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, no.

• 19:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay, so we're sharp left.

• 19:31Danielle LaRock?

  Switching gears, switching gears here. This is a lot scarier.

• 19:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hey Danielle and Cassie. It is weird for me to write to a podcast because I am out of my comfort zone because of anxiety, but here we are because I finally have a spooky tale that will forever freak my friends and I out. I found your podcast while working on my dissertation back in 2023 with my first episode being on Ada Blackjack and I have been hooked ever since, especially since my Aquarius personality agrees because I have become a person who loves nature and has so much respect for it. So, thank you. Quick side note, I have since graduated with my doctorate in public health with a concentration in epidemiology and biostatistics and I am in love with my career. Congratulations. That seems

• 20:12Danielle LaRock?

  Amazing.

• 20:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  complicated.

• 20:15Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, back to the main point. Even though what happened did not occur in a national park, I figured let's give it a shot because what occurred is spooky. To begin, all names have been changed, so don't worry about slipping up. For the sake of this story, I gave myself the name Harley Quinn because she is simply my girl, and now time for the spooky stuff. Around mid-August of 2021, my friends and I decided to take a weekend girls' road trip to Destin, Florida. As we were studying for our qualifying exams, we had already sensed that it was going to be brutal. We took this trip to relax our minds even though we were still going to study while on the trip. By the time the day of the trip rolled around, it was well-needed because we had been on a tight schedule of studying for six days a week with only one day given off for a quote-unquote "break"

• 20:59Danielle LaRock?

  because we had less than two months to prepare. Moving along, we arrived at the Airbnb Friday evening, and it was such a beautiful Airbnb with modern contemporary style and beach vibes throughout that it actually inspired me on what I would like in my future home. This stay had three large bedrooms with three bathrooms, with two of the bedrooms situated next to each other on one side, and the third bedroom was on the other side of the Airbnb. Separated from the other rooms by a large living room that's large enough to fit at least three large farm tables, and we split the rooms with two ladies per room, and I shared a room with my roommate. This information about the Airbnb layout is important, and you'll see why. That same Friday evening, we had dinner, played some games, and had story time. Everything was pretty normal.

• 21:44Danielle LaRock?

  Saturday morning came and went, and everything, again, was normal. We went out for a spa day, had lunch, studied, had dinner, and chilled for the rest of the night. Saturday night around 11:00 PM, everyone went to sleep except for me because I'm a night owl whose brain does not care about my feelings, about an appropriate bedtime, and wants to be on the go constantly. I finally got sleepy around 1:00 or 1:30 in the morning and decided to get some rest, but not before checking all of the doors and turning off all the lights because of my paranoia about making sure everything was locked and turned off before getting to bed. Then, between 3:00 and 4:00 AM, in the first bedroom, Melissa, one of the six ladies on the trip, woke up to use the restroom. And Ava, who Sharing a bedroom with Melissa was wrapped up in the blanket that they were sharing,

• 22:28Danielle LaRock?

  but was still asleep. And remember this, Melissa returned from the restroom and Ava, who was sleeping when she had left, was now standing and mumbling something that Melissa couldn't make out. Melissa started to freak out and asked in a shaky voice, "Hey Ava, are you okay?" But Ava didn't respond and continued mumbling. Then, out of nowhere, Ava takes off directly into the corner, right side of the room, and slams right into the heavy curtain and starts fighting said curtain, screaming loudly. Just as abruptly, she stops, returns to the bed as if nothing had happened,

• 23:07Danielle LaRock?

  and goes back to sleep. I feel this pain because my old roommate used to do stuff like this. And I'm gonna hold my thoughts. I'm gonna hold my thoughts until the end because I want to get through the story and see if they kind of reveal what my line of thinking is, but I'll circle back on my personal connection to this. Now, the second room I was sharing with my roommate. While we were sleeping, suddenly I became extremely hot, sweating and felt something jerk me right out of sleep. I sat right up and was fanning myself like crazy and started hyperventilating, which woke up my roommate, and she asked, "Harley, are you okay? You sounded like you were crying." When she asked that, it took me out of whatever dilemma I was in,

• 23:49Danielle LaRock?

  and I returned to my normal body temperature, like I was just not extremely hot three seconds prior, and said, "Yeah, I guess I'm okay. I was just really hot there for a minute." I said I was okay because I didn't want to scare my friend, because she gets easily anxious and frightened. The crazy thing is, when I asked her whether she was hot, she said, "No, she was cold, not blazing hot like I was." After speaking with her, I was in the process of laying my head back down on the pillow, but for some reason, one of the ladies who was on the trip came to mind, and her name is Barbara. Not even two seconds later, Barbara, who was in the third bedroom that is on the other side of this Airbnb that's separated by that large living room, screams a blood-curdling scream as if she is running away from Michael Myers, who decides to run and

• 24:34Danielle LaRock?

  And not walk as he normally does when chasing his victims. When I heard it, I immediately asked my roommate, hey, did you hear that? And she said, no, what are you talking about? To which I replied, Barbara just screamed at the top of her lungs. But my roommate still said, no, she didn't hear anything. So I'm just laying there confused, but a hundred percent sure that I was not crazy. And then I clearly heard a scream coming from Barbara. I was gonna run over and check on her, but decided not to because she was sharing a room with Penny, the sixth person on the trip, who I figured would come to her help if she needed it. Finally, to the third bedroom, Barbara and Penny's room, the epic showdown. Barbara, who literally just screamed right after her name came to my mind,

• 25:17Danielle LaRock?

  said she felt as if she had left her body and was looking at herself as she was sleeping. So she's now having like, this Barbara person's having an astral projection situation. That's freaky. From there, she said, as she was real life laying down, she looked to the edge of the bed on her side and saw either her or something sitting at the edge of the bed as she was laying down. And she felt like she had no control over herself and couldn't move. As this is currently happening to Barbara, Penny, who is sleeping in the same bed as Barbara, does not hear a thing, not even the blood curdling scream that I did, and doesn't move at all because she's in a deep sleep. Suddenly Barbara turned herself over towards Penny and started shouting,

• 26:01Danielle LaRock?

  Jesus, over and over and over. I know, like, what the hell is happening? This is such a scary sleepover. All at the same time, also. What's going on with everyone? Penny finally wakes up and places her hand on Barbara, which caused Barbara to immediately return to normal. And whatever was happening to her just stopped. The next morning, okay, we're just going to the next morning. There's no follow up on anything that just happened.

• 26:30Danielle LaRock?

  What is going on?

• 26:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, anyway, that was fine. And in the morning, we had breakfast.

• 26:35Danielle LaRock?

  The next morning, Sunday, I was working out in the living room and Barbara appeared, sat down on the couch and said, I have to tell you something. And I immediately had an idea of what she was referring to. So I asked, did you scream last night? And she said, yes. As we were sharing what happened to us, here comes Ava with a weird expression on her face. Y'all, I gotta tell you the shit that happened to me last night. Once Ava shared her experience, that was when we figured out that each of us had something happen to each of us that previous night, to which the other ladies who were not touched confirmed each of our stories respective of the room that they slept in. As we were discussing what had happened, Melissa said that when Ava screamed, she screamed loudly in the direction of the second room.

• 27:18Danielle LaRock?

  But my roommate and I did not hear the scream. And then the second room events happened. Once everyone ended up sharing their story, I prayed because honestly, it was scary hearing what happened to all of us. And it seemed as if once the spirit left one room, it immediately went to the next room to continue its madness. The next day on Monday, Ava asked... Okay, so they still stayed. They're like...

• 27:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's bravery. They're like, well, we already booked it. We're already paid for it. We're here. Might as well just see what happens tonight.

• 27:50Danielle LaRock?

  The next day on Monday, Ava said she talked to her friend, a minister, about what had happened to us. The minister said it was probably an evil spirit looking for someone to harm, but could not do anything. So maybe that's why it went from room to room to room searching. As I'm writing this, I am a superstitious person, but to an extent because of my culture, Haitian. I've heard stories about good and evil spirits from the time I stepped foot on this earth, including my mom remembering a bottle being hung by the front door of her parents' house, and none of the children were allowed to touch said bottle, to which my mom has alluded to her parents keeping evil spirits out. Also, my mom said that her mom, who had passed away, visited her in a dream, letting her know that she was about to be sick, which turned out to be true.

• 28:34Danielle LaRock?

  My mom has bravely managed even through complications and has gotten better. FYI... We made a vow to never return to that Airbnb again. Okay, I'm in a whirlwind. That story was crazy. Uh, does everybody follow? Because that was a lot going on. But essentially, it seems like everybody got haunted to some extent. And I have, okay, so back to what I initially thought.

• 28:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 28:59Danielle LaRock?

  Because it has changed a little bit based on the details of the story. So that first incident of Ava and Melissa, when one of them goes to the bathroom and comes back and the other one's having this situation unfold. So when I was in college, I had a roommate who had incidents of sleepwalking. She didn't do it all the time, but she would do something similar, like she would get up and be mumbling and sometimes doing something. One time she ripped the sheets off of me when I was asleep and trying to talk to her, but she was clearly out of it. And the, and the only time she did that is when she was super stressed out, like during final exams, or she had some sort of really big life thing going on. It kind of like triggered these incidents.

• 29:41Danielle LaRock?

  And Harley clearly states that they're on this trip as like kind of a break from a really highly stressful time in their studies. So I was like, well, maybe it's a stress induced situation going on, but to have it happen simultaneously, all at once to three different people in different ways is what changed my mind on that.

• 30:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it's a, there's something going on with that house for sure.

• 30:07Danielle LaRock?

  I just, I don't know, number one, if I would have stayed past that initial, if it was just a me thing, like, okay, I went through something and I was hearing stuff and acting weird. Okay, whatever. But then to have two more people come forward and be like, I also went through something unexplainable. I don't know if I would be down with.

• 30:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Maybe they wanted to see if it would happen again.

• 30:31Danielle LaRock?

  You know what I mean? Go to the Marriott.

• 30:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  This story actually kind of reminded me that a memory that I almost forgot about that I had an experience with you, actually. Do you remember?

• 30:42Danielle LaRock?

  No.

• 30:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  And you'll remember when I say it, but when we were visiting Yosemite and we were staying at this place and they were these yurts and we had two beds next to each other. Danielle was in one, I was in the other, and I woke up in the middle of the night feeling like someone was Like, like, feeling like something was wrong. Like, I was like, in my head, I was like, is Danielle okay? And something in my mind was like, was she kidnapped? Like, I don't know. It was just like these thoughts that went on in my head. And I turn and I look at your bed and you're sitting up in your bed with your hair just dangled over.

• 31:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  And you're not looking at me. It was just your hair dangled over. And I kept squinting and like opening my eyes. And I was like, is she really sitting? I don't want to say hi Danielle if she's not awake and wake her up. Like, are these shadows like playing tricks on me? And I'm looking and I'm like straining my eyes because it was really dark in there. And then after a minute, I keep seeing you and I'm like, okay, so I closed my eyes for a second and I reopen them. And then you're tucked away in bed, completely asleep.

• 31:51Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, I don't, I remember you telling me this. Yeah, I do remember you telling me this, but I don't, I don't recall that. Like me actually physically doing that.

• 32:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  You didn't get up out of bed.

• 32:03Danielle LaRock?

  It was just, it was a.

• 32:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  You didn't. That was the thing is you didn't get up out of bed. When I like blinked and like looked again, you were totally asleep in bed. But there was someone sitting at the end of your bed that looked like you. That is so nuts. Yeah, that is so nuts.

• 32:18Danielle LaRock?

  That is the creepiest. That place, like, I wouldn't say it gave me the creepiest vibes because it was very lovely.

• 32:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was a lovely spot. Yeah, beautiful.

• 32:27Danielle LaRock?

  It was just like that. I don't think, I mean, the amount of time that we have spent time together, like if you, every, if we put our days together that we've spent in a row, like consecutively, we've spent months together and.

• 32:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Sleeping in the same room, same bed or beds next to each other. And you've never done creepy shit like that before, but that night you were.

• 32:49Danielle LaRock?

  And it looked like you. It looked like you though. And it was just like, it was kind of like from The Grudge where there's.

• 32:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like, hold on, let's reenact. Was it like this? Yes, that's exactly what it looked like. It was you. You look like Cousin It right now.

• 33:07Danielle LaRock?

  Sorry, I can't hear you.

• 33:10Danielle LaRock?

  Was it like that?

• 33:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, it was like that and you look like Cousin It for a second. But well.

• 33:16Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 33:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  So I kind of have a similar experience, but you were the creepy one.

• 33:22Danielle LaRock?

  I got possessed.

• 33:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Something happened. Yeah, I saw like your projection or whatever, but.

• 33:30Danielle LaRock?

  I hope that's not my projection. I would hope my projection is like, nice.

• 33:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  It wasn't like you were scary. It was, you weren't doing anything scary. It just like looked like you were sitting there with your hair dangling. And, and it was so weird because I had woken up out of like a deep sleep and my first thought was like, is Danielle okay? I feel like something's hap- happened to her. Like, I feel like someone is like after her right now. And it was just like, like, is she being kidnapped? Is someone in here for Danielle? And then I like turned around and then there was someone sitting on your bed.

• 34:02Danielle LaRock?

  And I'm out of my body. Or there's something else happening.

• 34:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. And I was just like squinting and squinting. And then I was like, okay, like, I'm just gonna close my eyes for a second and reopen them and see like, because it was so dark, it was hard to tell. And then suddenly you were just like in your bed and nothing was there anymore. It's like, okay, that was fucking weird.

• 34:20Danielle LaRock?

  Creepy. I will say it was during a time that I like, didn't want to be of this earth anymore. So maybe I was trying to get out.

• 34:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, you did because I saw it.

• 34:32Danielle LaRock?

  I did. I almost, I almost escaped.

• 34:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  I was like, get back in there. We have, we have things to do.

• 34:39Danielle LaRock?

  We have a business. Uh, you can't dip out quite yet.

• 34:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, we have a.

• 34:44Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 34:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Anyway. Partnership for you.

• 34:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  All right. My next story is titled Davy Jones Tried To Put Me In His Locker. Speaking of creepy things.

• 35:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  This whole episode is just creepy stuff, I guess. Like everyone else and well-earned and deserved for both of you and your support team, I am a huge fan of the show. A childhood friend turned me on the pod and I am catching up on long drives and walks at night. My friend and I even joke when we go camping that every time we slip or get lost, that we are going to be featured on a future show. Let's start the real-life events of a dive accident that almost happened. Florida is where I was born and I consider my home. For all the hashtag Florida man memes, this truly is a beautiful place to kayak spring-fed rivers, explore the ocean and wander at the marine life. Florida is also home to the third-largest barrier reef in the world.

• 35:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  It stretches the southeast coast from Martin County through Palm Beach, Broward and Dade Counties where it ends in Monroe County west of Dry Tortugas National Park. My story takes place near Biscayne National Park on the USS Spiegel Grove wreck in Key Largo. The wreck was sunk in 2002 and is situated in 130 feet of water at the sand. The USS Spiegel Grove was a US Navy landing ship, launched in 1959 and decommissioned in 1989. The dive to the wreck should only be done by advanced divers and my dive was beyond that at a technical level due to the compression stops on the way back up to prevent the bends, AKA decompression sickness. My dive buddy, let's call him JR,

• 36:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  and I had done this wreck before with light penetration into the upper decks. This time, we plan to go deeper into the wreck, swim forward towards the bow where there is a bar, turn around and then surface. The total bottom time was supposed to be 35 minutes and 35 minutes coming up with stops to switch to higher oxygen-rich tank, which we brought to help prevent decompression sickness. We had never been this deep into the wreck and had heard of a path, which I am leaving out in case someone tries to duplicate our stupidity. Diving on the wreck in November 2017, we initially couldn't find the path and started exploring the outside. Eventually, 10 minutes into the dive, we found the path. As JR started swimming to the path, I grabbed his fin and pointed at my

• 37:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Watch signaling, we were five minutes past our planned time to penetrate the wreck. He waved me off and kept going down the hallway. In the depths of the wreck, there are many dangers beyond decompression sickness. You have jagged metal edges, metal doors that can close shut, numerous ways to get lost, silt kicked up, which can bring visibility to zero, and almost complete darkness, except for the lights that you bring. All of these were top of mind as we continued going down the hallway at 125 feet deep. 10 minutes later, in what felt like forever, we take a right from our straightaway when the hallway ends and we have finally found the bar. It was a little room at the bow of the ship with placed liquor bottles and a half bar table.

• 37:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  We looked around for two minutes and I was ready to turn around and head back the way that we came. We are now 22 minutes into the dive and turning around would keep us on plan. My dive buddy wanted to take another right turn down the parallel hallway we came through and go out at that end of the hallway. Before I had a chance to stop him, he continued. Ships have a tendency to move from storms caused by cold fronts. Yes, we do get those in Florida, tropical storms and underwater currents. When the USS Spiegel Grove was first sunk, it landed on its side and was considered a failed sinking. Three years after it sank, it was turned upright by Hurricane Dan in 2005. This is when my anxiety was building because I knew all of these factors and Hurricane Irma had come through the Keys four months earlier.

• 38:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  We didn't know the condition of the ship, if doors had closed or other damage had occurred, all which would have blocked our path out. As we went down the hallway, it was becoming apparent we had swam further towards the aft of the boat than our entry towards the bow. We found an area where there was a porthole upwards of about 24 by 24 inches. Neither of us would be able to fit through with our gear on and I was contemplating how to get through this hole by taking our gear off and handing it to each other. When I went to look for JR, he was gone. At that moment, I had the biggest build of panic ever in my life as I knew Davy Jones was coming hard for me. I was alone in a wreck 125 feet deep and my mind knew that this could be the end.

• 39:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  I would be a story in a dive magazine full of the multiple stupid mistakes I made to get to this point. My air was running low and I was lost in a shipwreck. In Danielle's words, "fucking dumbass."

• 39:35Danielle LaRock?

  Why are those my words?

• 39:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know. They wrote it. He must have said it at some point.

• 39:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Is it because I swear a lot? Probably.

• 39:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  I mean, you're right. Fucking dumbass. I can hear you saying it. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

• 39:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  My training then kicked in. I knew panic was my worst enemy, and even though physically I couldn't shut it down, mentally, I had to push it aside. I took a few deep breaths. I focused on what I could control, and I evaluated my situation. Most dive accidents in wrecks are caused by panic, when the way out is usually within feet. Divers panic and die from panic freeze. I wasn't going to allow myself to freeze or flight back the way I came, so instead I chose to fight. I followed JR's silt path along the hallway, and two minutes kicking hard later, I saw the most beautiful thing in the world: sunlight from the 125 feet up to the top of the ocean. This opening was much bigger and what I needed. When I reached the deck of the ship,

• 40:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  my breathing rate increased threefold because I finally allowed myself to mentally panic, knowing I was likely going to be safe. The next challenge arose. JR was nowhere in sight, and when I looked around at the deck for a minute, I still saw nothing. Thirty-five plus minutes into my dive, and it's time to save my life as depleting air is still my enemy. I start to swim parallel to the deck where I stored my oxygen-rich tank for the way up, and I find JR. My hands are shaking so violently from the panic I allowed in, I have to ask him to clip my spare tank back onto my gear. Thankfully, we always assume rules of one to threes, and I had enough air in my primary tank, an oxygen-rich tank, to surface 48 minutes later.

• 41:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  For 48 minutes, I was mixed with emotions of elation, fear, and anger at myself. At the surface, I have never been so happy to breathe air above water. We came upon the deck of the boat, and I took my dive gear off, headed to the bow, and just sat there reliving every moment of a near fatal dive. For years since then, I still relive those memories, partly due to learning from your mistakes is never to make them again, and partly from PTSD. There were several mistakes made that And I am beyond grateful to be able to tell the story instead of be the story. Davy Jones was hot on my trail and I put death off for a little time longer. I know I carry a black mark, but I am too much in love with the ocean to fear my friend. So I faced my fears and the lessons I learned that day.

• 42:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  First, plan your dive and dive your plan. I failed this when we penetrated the wreck at 10 minutes and should have forced JR to not go down the hallway. Second, in any high-risk diving environment, hire a guide who knows the environment and has recently dived within it. Third, never assume. JR assumed the second hallway back would be fine and we were lucky it was. But assumptions get you killed most of the time. For about a year, I lived with nightmares, often about dying under the water trapped in the ship. I am happy to say years later, I am a dive master and work on a dive boat off Palm City County. I teach new students along with experienced divers how simple mistakes can add up to cause death, how panic is easily your worst enemy under the water,

• 42:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  and to stop and analyze the problems to make rational choices. Lastly, I am now a certified rebreather diver. Running out of air is less of an obstacle. But with rebreather units, there are now new opportunities to make mistakes. Arrogance is the biggest enemy of experienced divers. And JR, along with myself, were very guilty of it that day. I tell everyone I dive with in the open water to check your arrogance on the boat. When you tell your tagline of enjoy the view but watch your back, I equate it in diving to enjoy the view but check your arrogance. If something feels wrong, call the dive and surface to dive another day. Thank you for allowing me to share my story, Jeff.

• 43:32Danielle LaRock?

  Well, Jeff, I wanted to get SCUBA certified this year, but you may have just changed my mind.

• 43:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  Did you?

• 43:39Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I have a goal list this year of, we've talked about doing like a wilderness first aid, survival type course, like over a weekend or something. And along with that, I don't know, I've just wanted to, I wanted to do that. I want to do a packhorse trip, like out west. I want to do a meditation retreat, a writing retreat, and get SCUBA certified.

• 44:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  The SCUBA certified, the rest track for you, but the SCUBA certified, you don't like water. So that is just.

• 44:10Danielle LaRock?

  I don't like water. I don't like, here's the thing. I like the ocean. I don't like pools. Like if someone's like, do you want to go swimming? I don't want to go swimming in a pool. Like, I don't like, I like being by pools. I don't like being in them. Hot tubs are like, I maybe if I'm freezing, like I'll get in a hot tub, but like, I don't want to be in there for more than five minutes. I just like, the ocean is at least like another world to explore. I just don't want to be in water to be in water.

• 44:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 44:41Danielle LaRock?

  I want to be doing something in the water, if that makes sense.

• 44:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  I have a friend who got a SCUBA certified last year, maybe it was two years ago now. And then she's done dives in really cool places. She went to Belize and she's just like jumped and she has a lot of fun doing it. So. I can, it was Erin and she did it by where you live now. So.

• 45:04Danielle LaRock?

  I was gonna say.

• 45:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  If you need a connection who can tell you how to do it, she did it near you. So.

• 45:11Danielle LaRock?

  Cool. I just think, I don't think it's something I would utilize often, but I think it would be cool to have some sort of foundational skill in that world. Because I feel like in our trajectory of what we do, I feel like we would find ourselves in a situation where that would be beneficial. So.

• 45:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  I hope not. I can't even snorkel. So.

• 45:32Danielle LaRock?

  I know. You're not a fan.

• 45:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm not a water person.

• 45:36Danielle LaRock?

  To snorkel.

• 45:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's really bad. It's really bad. I'm like, uh, I'm like a drowning cat. Me and water just don't, don't get along. I think it's, it's probably more of a mental thing for me than anything else that I would have to overcome, but I can't figure out how to breathe through a snorkel. I also get claustrophobic kind of easily. So having stuff on my face, it's just not, not good. But a lot of respect for people who do it because I think it is a really cool way to explore the world in ways that most people don't. Um, especially since humans themselves are not meant to be underwater. So people who are able to go into shipwrecks, more power to you. I think it's really cool.

• 46:15Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And all the stories that we've covered that touch upon underwater archaeology just makes me so intrigued. So I don't know, it's, it's low on that list of things that I would like to do, but it's on there.

• 46:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, I would love for that. I would love that for you. And I hope that you check that off your bucket list of things.

• 46:35Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, we'll see.

• 46:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  I will not be joining you, but the other ones, if you want someone to come with you, like sign me up. But that one, you're on your, you'll have to find someone else to do with you if you want a friend.

• 46:46Danielle LaRock?

  All right, I'll work on it.

• 46:56Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, my last story is titled, "The Renter That Was Surrounded By Wolves." "Hi Cassie and Danielle, I want to first thank you so much for the podcast. I found it, I found it this past spring and there are only a few episodes I have yet to hear. And PAD is the only podcast I listen to religiously and I quickly became an outsider because I ran out of all the episodes on Spotify in just two months."

• 47:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow, thank you.

• 47:20Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, thanks. "Anyways, just to prove what a small world it is, my dad was born and raised in Sunapee, New Hampshire and went to Plymouth State and so did my cousin."

• 47:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, no way. I went to Plymouth State.

• 47:31Danielle LaRock?

  "My name is Samantha Hershey, please feel free to use it on the podcast. I was raised in Pennsylvania, but spent every single school break in Denbark, Maine, where the following story will take place. I now live in Eagle, Colorado, in the midst of the Rocky Mountains. So thank you for everything you do. I appreciate all the hard work, energy and research you put into each episode. No matter what is going on in your lives, you take the time to have a gracious attitude when recording and have a positive effect on the rest of us who listen. So thank you. Also, I'll absolutely freak if I hear this on the podcast. I know everyone says that, but it's true. If not, I hope you guys get a good chuckle out of this. My family sure has. Well, thank you for all the love, Samantha." "To set the scene, our cabin in Denbark, Maine is a quiet escape from our regular lives.

• 48:16Danielle LaRock?

  There is no TV or internet and we keep on the NOLA weather radio on so we can hear anything important going on around us. Our cabin is on Hancock Pond, which by most people's standards, isn't a pond at all. Even with a total surface area of 761 acres, it's not considered a lake by the state of Maine until there's a maximum depth of at least 60 feet located somewhere in the lake. The closest general store is Jim Bob's, which is an 11..." ...minute drive away, and when the story took place, there was no cellphone service, only the landline. Okay, enough of an intro and into the story. This story is directly from one of our renters of our cabin. I have permission from the renter to share her story, but not her name, so let's just call her Jess.

• 48:59Danielle LaRock?

  Our cabin is shared among our extended family throughout the seasons, but when the cabin is left empty, we rent it out. Most of our renters are friends or people we have known the majority of our lives. One time, we decided to rent it to a woman in Connecticut who wanted to get away for a week in the summer for some much-needed solitude. We gave her the rundown of the cabin and everything we thought she may need to know. The caretaker of the property, Herb, was there to greet her and hand off the keys to the home. In his extremely thick Mainer accent, he happily informed her that he left his phone number by the landline in case she needed anything. Excited to finally have arrived that morning, she gathered all of her luggage out of her car, quickly unpacked, and started to explore the property. She noted that we had neighbors, but they didn't appear to be home.

• 49:44Danielle LaRock?

  She walked down to the dock, decided to go for a swim, and lay out in the sun. She heard a bit of activity on the lake, but it looked like all of the laughter she was hearing was coming from all the way across the cove, about a mile and a half walk away. She went back inside and perused through the owner's book, where renters write down their experiences after their week. Renters wrote of seeing moose, taking the canoe out into the middle of the lake in the middle of the night to look at the stars, roasting marshmallows in the fire pit, feeding chipmunks—not a good idea, I know—seeing fisher cats by the water's edge, listening to woodpeckers, and the plethora of wildlife around the cabin. After reading through the book, Jess decided that roasting marshmallows while watching the stars sounded like the perfect way to unwind and start her vacation.

• 50:28Danielle LaRock?

  She built the fire before it got dark and decided to make her dinner, hot dogs cooked over the fire, and some yummy potato chips. As the sun set and the stars started to peek out, she switched over to the smores that she had craved all day long. Nothing but the sound of fire crackling to interrupt the silence, until she heard a call far off in the distance, but clear as day. Maybe not like a call, but more like a howl. And then all of a sudden, she heard the response. Another howl, a bit closer this time. Whoa, she said out loud, wolves. Urb never said anything about wolves and neither did the book. They sounded far off. She was only about 10 yards from the cabin and she was by a fire. She thought to herself,

• 51:09Danielle LaRock?

  they won't bother me over here, right? Either way, she decided to start packing up and headed inside. As she was gathering her food, she heard it again, another howl, but this time it was close. She guessed it was just on the other side of the hill from her campfire. Immediately, she heard another howl, but this one sounded more like a laugh, kind of like a hyena. Then her stomach dropped. The bushes about 20 yards behind her started to rustle. She screamed and took off sprinting towards the house, leaving all of the food behind. She made it through the sliding glass door and locked it behind her. Not wanting glass to be the only thing between her and this pack of wolves, she sprinted up the stairs and watched for the wolves out of the guest bedroom window. With no light outside other than the fire and the stars above, it was hard for her to make out,

• 51:53Danielle LaRock?

  but soon enough, out large, black wolf with glowing eyes appeared on the scene, immediately headed for the bag of hot dogs. As the wolf ate, Jess kept hearing all of the other wolves call. It sounded like they were surrounding the cabin and surrounding her. What could she do? When the wolf finished off the hot dogs and the rest of her potato chips, it headed up the deck to the house and paced outside of the sliding glass door. Jess sunk down and hid from this wolf, hoping they would decide she's not worth it and head off. She didn't fall asleep for hours, but she couldn't go downstairs to grab the landline because she would have to pass that sliding glass door with the wolf, and there was no way that she was gonna do that. Eventually, she fell asleep in the guest bedroom and woke up the next morning, immediately packed her things, and left to go back to Connecticut.

• 52:37Danielle LaRock?

  When she got home, she called my dad to tell him that she had left. She demanded a refund as she was not expecting to be stalked by wolves during her week of solitude. My dad, extremely concerned, as we have never seen wolves in our part of Maine, asked exactly what had happened. She said she saw a big black wolf pacing on the deck and heard multiple wolves calling to each other all night long, plotting her demise. She stated that some of the calls even sounded like they were laughing at her. My dad asked her to describe the howls, and after a bit of time, he pulled up a YouTube video and played back the sounds to Jess. Yes, yes, that's it, she exclaimed. That's exactly what I heard. My dad responded and said, uh, hey Jess, what you heard were loons.

• 53:20Danielle LaRock?

  Sorry.

• 53:23Danielle LaRock?

  She was stunned and in disbelief. She had seen the pretty black and white speckled birds on the lake, but there was no way they could make that sound. And also, she had seen a wolf. It was on the deck and she was sure she hadn't imagined it. My dad then asked, was the wolf about thigh high with short scruffy hair and came from the west? Jess confirmed, and my dad tried his best not to burst out laughing, that wolf Jess had seen was actually Hank. Hank was the neighborhood black lab that lived a few houses down and never missed a good campfire story, especially when it came with free snacks. He was always sure to come by and say hi to whoever was renting that week in hopes for a treat or two. Jess remembered the owner's book mentioning how Hank stopped by for some

• 54:05Danielle LaRock?

  food, but she thought Hank was a grown man, not a six-year-old black lab. To this day, it's one of our favorite stories to tell about our cabin. Jess has since been back with her growing family, her husband and kid number one with kid number two on the way. She and Hank officially got to meet before he passed away at 14, and she absolutely loves listening to the call of loons now that she knows that her life isn't in danger. All of this to say, enjoy the view, but watch your back for snacky labs and eerie loon calls in the distance.

• 54:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's so funny. Also, just to like, as a like PSA, if you're in a house, if you did have wolves outside, they're not gonna get in.

• 54:46Danielle LaRock?

  You're gonna be good. You're gonna be good. That's, that's actually so crazy we talk about this right now because I just finished American Primeval. Did you watch it?

• 54:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  No.

• 54:55Danielle LaRock?

  No, it's really good.

• 54:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Is it on Netflix?

• 54:57Danielle LaRock?

  It is. It's kind of surrounding the meadow, uh, the meadows massacre, mountain meadows massacre in Utah. And there's a lot going on. I'm not gonna get into it. It's good if you're into that period of history, but there's a scene in which there's two people in a cabin and like a wood log cabin, and there are angry wolves outside that are literally ripping the boards off of the cabin to get in to attack and eat these people.

• 55:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  See, this is why people are afraid. Like, that doesn't happen.

• 55:28Danielle LaRock?

  It's so funny because like there's all these articles and things going on about how the Mormon community is really pissed about this show because of the way that Mormons are depicted in the series. I'm pissed about how the wolves were depicted in the 30 seconds of that show.

• 55:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, wolves don't act like that. Like, it's just fear, like.

• 55:47Danielle LaRock?

  Mongering, yeah.

• 55:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Fear mongering, for sure.

• 55:51Danielle LaRock?

  I'm like, at least the Mormons can defend themselves in some way with words and wolves are just like.

• 55:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  They're just wild, wild puppies. Leave them alone, yeah.

• 56:01Danielle LaRock?

  But it's just so funny also, like, loons sound, at first I was like, oh, I was immediately assuming she got wolf howls mixed with coyote laughs, especially because like the laughing.

• 56:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  That was where my thoughts went.

• 56:15Danielle LaRock?

  Did I just say coyote laughs? Coyote calls, I meant to say. I don't know what I just said.

• 56:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  You did say laughs.

• 56:20Danielle LaRock?

  Whatever.

• 56:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  But they sound like laughing.

• 56:22Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, but anyway, hope she's okay.

• 56:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Sounds like she is. She got over the fear of it. At first I was like, wow, wolves in Maine, that's really cool. And then it's just, it got really funny. But I'm glad everyone survived that and Hank got a nice snack that night. Okay, for my next story and last story before we get to our outsiders bonus stories. Mine is titled, Forget Bears, Did You Pick A Man Or A Ghost? Hello, ladies. My name is Krista and I've been listening to you guys for a few years now. I have very few podcasts that I listen to religiously and I added you to the list as soon as I heard you cover the case of Julianne Williams, Lali Wynnens, and Leslie Spellman. You covered their story in a way that preserved and showcased their humanity rather than making a gruesome spectacle

• 57:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  as so many true crime creators unfortunately do. I, as well as so many others, am so thankful for how thoughtful you both are. Thank you.

• 57:19Danielle LaRock?

  That means a lot.

• 57:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  It does, and we do, we appreciate you noticing that because we do try to remain respectful. Onto my story. Though I do adore camping and hiking, this doesn't take place outdoors, but I think you'll enjoy it regardless. My husband and I recently moved on military orders to Northern Virginia. We chose a new apartment building. solely for its proximity to the metro because I'm a little bit scared of driving on the east coast after living in rural North Dakota for five years. I didn't notice it myself, but when showing my parents pictures of my apartment, my mom pointed out a subtle motif in my balcony railings in which the center of two wrought iron bars were bent in the shape of a milk bottle. I thought it was just a fun design choice, or perhaps accidental, and forgot about it for a couple of months.

• 58:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  A few days ago, after noticing more of the milk bottle motif and realizing it was definitely a purposeful choice on the part of the architects, I pointed it out to my husband. We had just driven into our underground garage after a day of running errands. He said, "Well, yeah, this used to be a milk bottle factory over a hundred years ago." I was so intrigued by this knowledge and said how cool it is to live in the grounds of an old factory. "I bet there are totally ghosts here," I said with amusement. I was mostly joking, as I have been more agnostic in my beliefs in ghosts or spirits in my adulthood. Flashback to the early 2000s. As a child, I was viscerally terrified out of my mind of the idea of ghosts, but was also constantly keeping an eye out for them.

• 58:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Few inexplicable things ever happened to me, to the point where by my mid twenties, I was starting to doubt their existence entirely, or maybe I was just one of the unlucky ones born without the ability to see or feel beyond our realm. Me and my husband had talked about hearing random ghost noises before, but seeing as I thought it was a new build and we live near a lobby and elevator of an apartment building, I'd always chalked it up to hearing my neighbors coming in and out. Anyway, back to a few nights ago, we're still in the garage now unpacking the car. I grabbed an armful of bags and asked if he needed my help grabbing any particularly awkwardly shaped box. He said, "Go ahead, you can just start putting groceries away, I'll be in in a couple of minutes."

• 59:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  I agreed, turned around, and walked past a couple rows of cars towards the elevators. The elevators are located inside of a lobby, the doors to which are clear glass. Just a few steps from the door, I saw my husband walking behind me in the reflection. I didn't even react, I just badged in and held the door open behind me. As I held the door open, I looked over my shoulder. And saw no one. Assuming he was close behind me, I stuck my head out of the door and was surprised to see him still fiddling with the box in the trunk of our car rose away. I closed the door and froze. I thought a man might be hiding around the corner, or maybe someone had just temporarily stepped out of view. I don't know why, but I waited a full 30 seconds or more before

• 1:00:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  I hit the button to request an elevator. In that time, no one made themselves apparent to me. Again, I'm not sure why, but it wasn't until hours later that I realized how strange the timing had been. I had just learned for the first time about the history of our apartment building and the fact that a milk bottle factory once operated here and even made an exclamation hoping there were ghosts. And 30 seconds later, a man just as real as my husband walked behind me in the reflection of the doors in front of me. Even though I was a little scared that a living man might be following me for a few minutes, I'm quite amused by the experience now. I love thinking that a friendly factory worker decided to level with my humanly senses to let me know that yes, there are spirits here. He also helped me realize that if I have to choose,

• 1:00:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm definitely picking the ghost. I hope that you too find this story amusing. I hope to have more experiences with the quote milkman, but I won't be too much of a try hard about it. I find it interesting that only once I'd stopped caring about seeing or feeling ghosts for years, it was then that someone decided to catch me completely off guard. Much like the living, I think a lot of ghosts avoid being vulnerable with people who are desperate. Thank you so much for reading this. Remember to enjoy the view, but above all else, be nonchalant while you watch your back. Love, Krista. Oh, that's such a good point. Like, I don't care. I don't care. I don't care about being haunted. I'm not begging you to come see me.

• 1:01:32Danielle LaRock?

  It's like, I don't care, but I'm saying I don't care because I care. So they would probably know that.

• 1:01:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. So you've really got to be caught off guard.

• 1:01:40Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, that's cool. I think man, man bearer or ghost?

• 1:01:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Ghost.

• 1:01:45Danielle LaRock?

  Ghost, yeah.

• 1:01:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Ghost.

• 1:01:47Danielle LaRock?

  Ghost.

• 1:01:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I would even pick.

• 1:01:49Danielle LaRock?

  Ghost of a man.

• 1:01:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Ghost, ghost of a bear.

• 1:01:53Danielle LaRock?

  That would probably be the one of the scariest. A ghost of a bear?

• 1:01:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:57Danielle LaRock?

  Can you imagine that?

• 1:01:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  I feel like a ghost bear would let me pet them.

• 1:02:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay, let's get to our bonus stories. Please, you look so soft and cute.

• 1:02:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for tuning in for this week's episode. If you would like to write us a story, please do. We love reading them on the podcast. You can submit your own trail tales on our website, npadpodcast.com. There's a submission link there. And but in the meantime, if you want to come hang out with us for our bonus stories, you can check us out on Apple subscriptions or Patreon and we will head over there. But until then, enjoy the view, but watch your back. Bye, everyone. See ya.

• 1:02:44Danielle LaRock?

  Thank you for joining us again this week. If you have a trail tale of your own you'd like to share, you can write to us at [email protected] or visit our website at npadpodcast.com. Bonus trail tales and content are available to Patreon members and Apple subscribers. Follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and X at National Park After Dark. And if you prefer to watch our episodes, you can find us on YouTube at National Park After Dark. And as always, if you enjoy the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

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